Winston Marshall and Ambassador Sam Brownback dissect UK political shifts, US election dynamics, and China's persecution of religious groups. Marshall critiques the Labour Party's decline and defends King Charles III against Islamization rumors while warning against digital ID systems mirroring China's social credit model. Brownback details his book "China's War on Faith," exposing forced organ harvesting, cultural genocide in Tibet, and urging Americans to weaponize religious freedom against Xi Jinping's regime like Reagan did with the Soviets. Ultimately, they argue that Western elites face an existential spiritual threat requiring strategic resistance. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, WAV2VEC2_ASR_BASE_960H, sat-12l-sm, script v26.04.01, and large-v3-turbo
Time
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Jace Plus Membership Review00:02:34
Making a grand reappearance on today's show is Stu.
He has started his own thing with, you know, the, I like to call them betting markets.
He doesn't like to call them that.
He is looking at, you know, what people are laying their money down on when it comes to politics.
And he has seen a big change in politics.
And the numbers are showing that maybe the Republicans are going to be okay.
Also, Samuel Brownback is on with us talking about the evil of that is.
China and Winston Marshall is on.
I love this guy.
He is English.
He actually tries to defend the king.
It's cute.
It really is.
But talks about what we're facing, what all of the West is facing, and what they're facing here in London.
All this and so much more on today's podcast.
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Starmer vs The Elites00:14:41
And thanks for standing with us.
Now let's get to work.
You're listening to the best of the Glenn Beck program.
It's always good to see you, Glenn.
It's great to see you.
Thanks for having me on your great show.
Excited to see you.
Thank you.
So, the king.
Well, I have to warn you, I am a monarchist.
Yeah, I know you are.
I know you are.
Is that going to be a problem?
There's still hope for you.
No, but you see, you Americans, I understand that your sense of conservatism is actually built on rebellion and against the monarchy.
But you've got to understand for us, our liberties are protected by.
The monarchy.
Are they?
Yes.
Yeah, I saw what he was talking about.
Yeah.
It's been about 300 years since the monarchy ever actually intervened to protect anyone.
But nevertheless, our tradition is that balance of king, technically, it's monarch aristocracy represented by the peers, although that's changed under Starmer, and then the commons represented by the people.
And we are governed by the people.
We're governed by the people.
I've got news for you.
None of that's working for you right now.
None of that's working for you.
I mean, you look how the people are voting.
Starmer is going to leave?
Starmer, it looks like, I don't know how he's pulled this off, because a day ago I thought that was it, he's finished.
I think he's going to last it.
And part of the reason is because there is no talent in the Labour Party to replace him.
The best option is Wes Streeting.
Frankly, you know, if he's, he's going to suit that guy.
I listened to the BBC yesterday and they were talking about him as if there's nothing to see here.
You know, these elections, they don't mean anything.
We've seen this before.
And I'm like, what are you people talking about?
The people are clear on this.
Yeah, well, the BBC are completely soaked up in the same ideology as the Uniparty, as the Labour Party, and frankly, as the Conservative Party has been for the last 15 years.
Remember with Keir Starmer, although he won with something like 35% of the vote, he actually had 20% of the electorate.
So, four out of five people in Britain who could vote two years ago, the 2024 election, did not vote for Keir Starmer.
That's crazy.
Think about that.
Even Kamala Harris had something like 48%, right?
But we are living in.
What America would be if Kamala had won.
And we are.
And so is Canada, and so is much of Europe.
I mean, I think, and you know, I think we change everything once all of us who are fighting for personal liberties and common sense, I think once we all understand wait a minute, this isn't about Keir Sommer, this is not about Donald Trump, this isn't about, you know, any of the politics that every country is making about.
They're making it about local politics, the elites.
Are you saying it's these people that are the problem?
No, no, no.
This is the people against an elitist government all over the Western world that has decided exactly how we're all going to live.
And when the people in Germany understand and the people in England understand the Germans are getting the same thing, we're getting the same thing, then all of a sudden we start to have real allies.
Because then you have the population of every country going, wait a minute, we're in this together.
Yes, you're absolutely right.
We're seeing the revolt of the people.
Against the post war elite.
You spelled it out beautifully in your book, actually, about the WEF.
And it's precisely that ideology that has been the big fight.
Now, in America, of course, with Trump, many of those battles are being won.
But in Europe here, it's still not all to play for because I think the people are going to win eventually.
But it's the last gasps of that elite, which is why, actually, Starmer has.
Trying to pivot and create new enemies.
So, your colleagues have been banned from coming to Britain.
You slipped through.
I don't know how I slipped through.
Yeah, it's kind of remarkable.
It's probably because you're a much bigger threat, because if they went for you, that would actually have political ramifications in the US.
I suspect that's right.
But there's two other Americans who have been banned.
A Belgian has been a politician, a Polish politician, a member of the European Parliament.
What Starmer's tried to do, and this is how he's saving himself here, is he's trying to create bogeymen.
He's saying, okay, Tommy Robinson and this march that's happening, the far right, I'm not the enemy.
They are.
They're the enemy.
And if we can say, we can focus the attention on here, it's the same reason why he banned Kanye West from coming over for anti Semitism, whilst.
Not actually doing anything about anti Semitism, not actually calling out the problem, which is Islam.
That's where it's coming from.
And by the way, under Starmer, it's now the worst anti Semitism we've had since Jews were allowed back into the country by Oliver Cromwell in the 1650s.
So we're talking 370 years.
Only once in that period has a Jew been killed for being a Jew.
That was in the 1960s by some of the far right.
We've had two Jews killed at the end of last year by a man whose first name was Jihad.
And in the last month, we've had various synagogues bombed.
We had two Jews stabbed in the neck in London.
This is happening, and it's coming from a very specific place.
But he can't possibly say that because he needs that Muslim voter base.
So he's pivoting away.
He's saying people like Tommy Robinson, they're the real, people like these, trying to come into Europe, they're the real villains here, and that's how we need to.
Are they that stupid, though?
I mean, because you know how the left and the Islamists were the ones behind the revolution in Iran, and you know what happened to anybody who wasn't an Islamist.
All of the Marxists, they were all killed or tortured or disappeared.
It's not going to work out well.
The king keeps playing footsie with these people, and I'm like, they're not going to embrace you.
Do you think the king's playing footsie with them?
King Chuck?
Yeah.
Okay, look, I've got to address this actually, right?
Because there's a popular rumor online that the king is a Muslim, actually.
No, I don't believe that.
You don't believe that?
No.
But people think he's kowtowing to them.
Now, one thing to remember about the king is firstly, he is a Christian.
But secondly.
Is he not a Christian?
I'm sure he is.
Okay.
Well, he's been.
The practicing, I don't know.
He's the sovereign, the head of state of several countries around the world.
Right.
And some of those countries.
Our Muslim majority countries.
So he is the sovereign of large populations of Muslims around the world.
So he's in this very difficult position where he's head of the English Christian church.
I've never had a guest defend the king of England, but you're first.
It's great to hear it.
It's great to hear it.
It's refreshing, kind of.
Who says I'm not open to hear other opinions?
There you go.
Oh, dear.
I hate it when I come off woke on all of these shows because I'm not woke.
This always happens when I speak to Americans conservative.
Now, I really do not like what His Majesty has said about.
Some of this environment, green ideology stuff.
And I don't like the direction he's going there.
I don't like it when these guys get in this domain of people get involved in politics.
I think that is for the people and for the commons.
But nevertheless, he's in a difficult position where he's got to be the representative, not just of England and of Great Britain, but also the Commonwealth and other realms around the world.
And they're not Christians.
So he's got to get that balance right.
And that's a tricky one.
He's ahead of the Church of England, though.
That's correct.
But it's a difficult balancing act.
Right.
I can see your point on that.
Let's talk about his digital ID.
Yeah, I'm very displeased about this.
Yeah.
This is being.
Now, just to be clear, so what he's reading out is being given to him by Number 10, being given to him by the Prime Minister, Keir Starmer.
So he doesn't really have a say.
He could, if he wanted to, object to things that are going on.
The last time that happened, I think, was literally over 300 years ago.
So they don't object.
The digital ID aspect, this is something I've been covering a lot on my show.
It is a system that Tony Blair tried to bring in when he was Prime Minister back in the late 90s.
And They've also incorporated into tax now.
So, as I've run several businesses, I now have to sign up to this stuff.
It's very difficult for me to resist and continue running my business.
That's the way they like it.
Exactly.
And the problem, of course, is that you can see this playing out in China is that you will end up with a social credit score system.
If you think that this government is stopping people coming into the country, what could they possibly do next?
Not only that, They all think that Nigel Farage is a fascist.
He's not a fascist, by the way.
He's a pretty traditional conservative, as far as I can tell, who's gone against the elites as just started this conversation.
He has been the person in British politics who has stood against the globalized liberal elite a lot.
It's funny because in America, people look at Nigel Farage and say, I think, did he sell out?
He's starting to get a little weak on.
Yeah, I think that.
So this is a very online thing, and it's quite.
Curious actually, if you think about the council elections that we've just had around the country, where Reform, his party, formerly called the Brexit Party, just completely dominated.
Even the Green Party, who didn't perform as well, and the Green Party are a far left Leninist, you know, unapologetic communist group with an Islamo faction to them, even they didn't do as well as projected.
But Nigel's Reform Party did much better.
And I think that possibly because this is online, people have forgotten how he's endeared himself to.
So much of the public, and why he's so popular here on the ground.
And partly that's because he's made tremendous self sacrifice.
People say he sold out.
This is a guy in the early 90s who left the Conservative Party because they sold out and did and signed up for the EU.
That was with the Maastricht Treaty.
And that's where even the Tories became the establishment, they became the globalist elite in that sense.
And they signed up to that ideology, rather, would be a more accurate way of saying.
He said, you know what, no.
And that's, by the way, at the detriment of his own career.
So he spent his whole life.
In his professional life outside of that bubble, he then has been calling out illegal immigration at tremendous self cost.
And by that I mean he's been a bogeyman.
In the same way that the media, they will do pictures of Trump with like a Hitler mustache and they say, they've been doing that to Nigel for decades.
It's been a huge personal cost and social cost.
And yet he was right.
He was right to say that we've been invaded and that masses of people are coming in at the detriment of the country.
There are a few other characters who have been doing it.
Seeing as you're speaking at Tommy Robinson's March, it's worth noting that he has been brilliant calling out the grooming gangs for decades before other people.
Now, Nigel is getting this flack, and it's very strange for me to see this because he is someone who actually has really got the credentials against the elite in a way that few people do.
I have to tell you, I like him and I like Tommy, but I'm not from England.
So I don't know.
I follow it passing, and I trust my gut.
I'm pretty good on my gut.
But I don't know.
I mean, I like Nigel.
I don't see anybody else.
I mean, to be able to fight this, you're going to be called Hitler always.
To fight this, you have to be outspoken, you have to be tough, and you have to be tough skinned.
I mean, Donald Trump is the only one that could have lasted in America.
He's the only one that could have put up with all of this and still fought back and won.
Yeah.
I think America needed a bull like him, someone that could actually thrive off the attacks.
And because no other individual, because if you think of every single attack from the beginning, Russia hoax, all of this, All the way through.
When he was out, they were trying to get him in the four year period.
They've just been relentlessly.
I just don't know another human being who could have done that.
I have to tell you, Don, I've told, excuse the audience, excuse me for telling the story again, but a Brit needs to hear this.
I talked to the president privately and I said, what was going through your mind when you were laying on the ground in Butler and Secret Service were on top of you and you're bleeding?
Three times they've tried to kill him.
Right, okay.
He's on the ground.
He's bleeding.
He knows he's been shot.
He can hear the other gunshots.
He knows it's chaos around him.
They're going to try to kill him.
Do you know what he told me?
I said, what were you thinking at the time?
Get up.
Get up.
You're not afraid of these people.
You want to be the president of the United States?
Represent the United States.
We're not afraid.
Holy cow.
And you can't fake that.
At that moment, that's why he stood up and fight.
Yes, true leadership.
He was representing the United States.
We are not going to bow down to this kind of stuff.
Yeah, absolutely.
True leadership.
And that every nation needs that kind of thing, particularly the West needs it.
And I'm very grateful the American has shown leadership where European leaders.
And elites have really failed.
And they're actually pivoting away.
I know you've been talking about China.
They're going the wrong direction.
I think if Trump loses in 2028, well, Trump's not going to run, but if we don't have somebody like Trump and if we lose Congress and the Senate and we lose this vision that he's working on, I think we turn right back to where you are today.
We turn on a dime.
There's going to be a struggle now.
This is not easy.
This is going to be a fight, really, for the rest of our lives.
I don't think that the elites are going to go out with a lot of outlast breath.
He said, he told me at one point, I need 12 years.
Not me, he said, but to fix this, he said, I need my four years, and we have to have two people or two terms following me that are on the same path.
He said, I think we can kill it in 12 years, but we can't in four.
Well, Rubio's been extremely promising.
He's amazing.
I'm incredibly impressed by the guy.
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Stu, how are you, my man?
Glenn, good to see you, my man.
Democrats Challenge Redistricting Rules00:10:12
How are you?
Very good.
Very good.
I wanted to get you on today because I've been reading your articles, watching your stuff, and you have some good news.
I wanted to bring you on when you had good news because when it comes to election time, a lot of times you're really a drag.
You're right.
You're right.
You're always accurate, but you're a drag.
Today is different.
You call me the little black rain cloud for almost 30 years.
And that was a nice way to be known.
I appreciated it so much.
But yeah, no, there actually is some pretty good news.
You're not today.
So tell me.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So basically, you know, it's funny because these things are, they originate with the left being the left, right?
Like they're constantly doing things to try to take advantage of their situations.
And they did this a couple of different times.
One was when it came to trying to expand the Voter Rights Act to their maximum levels possible.
So they kept harassing these states to change their districts over and over and over again.
So that they could get more majority minority districts, right?
These are districts where the majority of the voters are minorities, and they will, in theory, I guess, the assumption is minorities just vote for their own skin colors, so they will elect other minorities.
That's basically the very cynical way Democrats looked at it for years and years and years and years.
And they got courts to back them up for a long period of time.
Then, of course, this goes to eventually, you know, this happens in Louisiana, and Louisiana, they wind up challenging this.
It goes all the way to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court says what I think is pretty obvious here, which is it's not supposed to be done by.
By skin color.
It's supposed to be the exact opposite of that.
We're supposed to do really almost any other thing, Glenn.
You can redistrict, you can draw a line based on almost anything else, except race, which is hilarious because it's the one thing they kept trying to put in.
So they tried this, and the Supreme Court went up saying, I know you covered this, but it's like they went up saying, look, you can't just draw these lines based on race.
You can use it as kind of one thing in a recipe if you really want to, but you can't just draw these racial lines.
They're not going to hold.
So they didn't hold, and this wound up burning the Democrats in a big way that it could wind up getting a bunch of seats to go from Republicans to Democrats.
Because now these states in the South, who have been doing this for years, have to redraw these districts to align with what the Supreme Court said, which is we shouldn't draw voting lines based on skin color.
So that's part number one.
Part number two is the Virginia situation.
Virginia, they wound up trying to do the same type of thing.
The left went in and they said, well, we're going to keep.
Pushing and they decided to try to make it basically so, in this purplish state, there were no Republicans to be seen anywhere.
They pushed this as far as they could go.
But, and this is something that we caught pretty early on when looking at this race.
The way that they had designed this, Glenn, there are rules in Virginia.
And they have this rule where basically, if you're going to screw with the Constitution and you're going to screw with the way that these lines are drawn in their system, you have the original legislative vote.
And then you have to have a, you know, basically another vote by the people to say, hey, we want to throw these bums out.
If they change the rules, we don't like that.
We should have the opportunity to throw these bums out.
So they did do that sort of.
They got the vote done immediately before the election and then forced everything through and said, look at us.
We're great.
We're going to push back against all these evil Republicans and get all these seats back for the Democrats.
The problem is, once again, because the left has been the left for so long.
They had opened up early voting for such a long period of time that even though they got this vote done right before the election, the Republicans pointed out, hey, wait a minute, 40% of our population has already voted before you tried to do this.
So this one doesn't count.
You didn't check off what you needed to do in the state.
So the Virginia Supreme Court came in and said, yeah, again, you guys pushed it too far.
You bent the rules.
That didn't work out.
And so Republicans are able to gain even more seats because of that.
Situation, which is really changing the whole tenor of the race, bud.
So, do you think this is all just happening because of the redistricting?
Or are you also seeing any indication that people are kind of like, I'm tired of all of this?
They're pushing it too far.
What happened in Virginia, even Spanberger coming in and saying, oh, we're not going to redistrict, and then immediately pushing for redistricting?
Do you're seeing any indication that Democrats are pushing things and pushing the American people too far to the left?
Or is that just wishful thinking?
You know, I don't want to be the little black rain cloud here.
I think that I don't think I've seen signs of any level yet of a left leaning voter saying, you know what, maybe our party is going a little too far.
Where we did see signs of that, I think back in 2021, 2022, where you saw the whole George Floyd era, I think was filled with moments where Democrats said about even their own party, hey, I don't know, maybe having some police on the streets is a good idea.
There were things like that that did happen.
I haven't seen that yet with redistricting.
The way this is being framed, I think, in the left wing media, And honestly, the mainstream media is this is just the Democrats trying to protect themselves.
They're doing the best that they can against these evil Republicans.
Donald Trump is very mean, and they have to do this one time.
That was the pitch from Gavin Newsom in California, right?
These places had set up systems that were supposed to eliminate the exact type of activity that Democrats are currently engaging in.
And they went to their own voters and said, hey, you know, sure, we have all these rules set up, but aren't the Republicans mean?
That kind of has been enough for a lot of them.
I do think that there is a situation where they do push this too far.
They're going to try to challenge all this stuff.
They're going to try to go down this road a little bit farther.
But they have a tough argument to make to the American people, who I still think, despite everything we see in the media, believe in things like skin color shouldn't matter, believe in things like merit should matter.
And the farther they go down to push against that, I think the worse it gets for them.
So tell me what you're seeing in Los Angeles and in the California vote.
I mean, you seem to, at least in the primaries for the very first time, you have Republicans doing really quite well in the polls.
Yeah.
Actually, it's true.
There's a couple of really interesting things going on there.
One is the Los Angeles mayoral election.
I know you've been watching that with Spencer Pratt.
He's been running a really interesting race with great ads.
Great ads.
You watch the debate and you're just like, how.
Could any human being think that this guy isn't the best of these three?
I just, you know, who he reminds me of, Stu, is, oh, what's the politician up in Canada?
Remember the apple eating guy?
Where he's just like, yes, I love him.
I love him.
He reminds me a little of him, where it's like, it's no sweat.
I don't really, whatever.
Just answering to these people, well, you're a moron, and eating a bite of an apple.
I mean, it just seems too easy almost for him.
Yeah.
And obviously, he knows the media really well.
You look at the ad that he ran, where he's showing off the houses of his opponents and then zooms out of his house, which is now a trailer because his house burned to the ground.
He has real credibility there.
And honestly, it's funny because sometimes a really positive thing can potentially wind up being a negative for you in your campaign.
It's obviously really difficult to win as a Republican in Los Angeles.
I'm not breaking news here.
Donald Trump lost.
To Kamala Harris 70 to 26 in 2024 in Los Angeles, in a race that obviously Trump won overall.
So, this is a very big uphill battle.
The best path for Spencer Pratt to win is for him to win a race that looks something like Pratt 37 and then the other two at 30 and 28 or something like that, or 35, 32, 30, where he just squeaks out and is able to kind of go forward.
The problem with this right now is the.
The last debate, he did so well that it wound up just destroying one of the two opponents.
And you wonder if the left is going to now unite around Karen Bass, who is a catastrophe as a mayor.
But it does seem like the current path.
But he's got a shot.
He's got a shot.
How about Steve Hilton?
Hilton, I saw you had him on.
Yeah, he's, again, you watched his debate.
We paid close attention to that one on our show, Predictable with Stu.
But we did, he was really good in that debate.
And, you know, he has a lot of credibility.
He has a way of being able to bridge a gap, I think, to a California voter who is at least sensible.
And there are some there.
You know, Glenn, we've been on in California for, I don't know, forever since the beginning of the show.
And every time we talk about California, we sometimes would generalize and say that they're all insane.
And then, There'd be people that would call up and say, wait a minute, no.
I mean, I have lots of friends.
Like, I swear we're not completely all like this.
But, you know, Steve Hilton, I think, really appeals to not only those people on the conservative side, but also people who I think can just step back and say, okay, look, I might even be a little bit on the left.
But, you know, I might not appreciate everything that Steve Hilton might stand for when it comes to certain policies, but at least the guy's speaking common sense.
You know, he said on the stage, he's like, you know, You guys keep attacking us on immigration.
China's War On Faith00:14:25
He's like, I'm the only one up here who is an immigrant.
That's who I am.
That's actually, I'm the only one who has any credibility on this particular issue.
He talked about that, and I thought he was solid.
You're listening to the best of the Glenn Beck podcast.
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Welcome to the Glenn Beck program.
We're talking about China this hour.
I'm going to get to some of the other things that are going on.
The King just spoke here in Parliament.
I'm in London.
This week, he just spoke in parliament.
He said some really, I think, very disturbing things about global warming and also digital ID.
It is coming strong here in England.
We'll get into that here in a minute.
I'm reading a couple of books on China right now, and one of them kind of goes into how we just don't understand China at all because they've never had any religion, they've never had any.
Emperor at any time that has been about human individual rights.
Never.
So it's not even part of their, as Melissa just said, not even part of their vocabulary to have these rights.
And there is, President Xi is not a good guy.
Not a good guy.
And there is real persecution going on.
And I have to tell you, I lived in New York for a while.
And I would pass these people who are on the streets, the full on gong people.
And I'd pass them and I'd see these horrible things that.
They were saying, and I never stopped to really listen.
I feel horrible now because now I'm beginning to understand what the hell is going on in China.
It's Christians, it's Buddhists, it's Muslims, full on Gang, and anybody who wants to be religious.
They are now passing out Bibles that change everything, they're replacing just as they did in.
Fascist Germany under Nazis replaced the pictures of Christ on any altars with the picture of their dear leader.
And one of the guys who really knows this is a former international religious freedom ambassador and former governor of Kansas, Samuel Brownback.
Sam just put out a new book called China's War on Faith because they are waging a war on faith, and every American needs to understand that.
China is not our friend in any way.
Sam, welcome to the program.
How are you, sir?
I'm good, Glenn, and thank you for taking this topic on and being willing to talk about it.
I think it's just so critical, and I think we have just a real lack of understanding of what this is and how significant it is that's going on.
Sam, I have to tell you, I think that we are in a spiritual battle.
We are not battling, I mean, Ephesians, we're not battling flesh and bone.
We are not even battling, you know, Republican, Democrat.
There is a spiritual darkness.
This is a spiritual battle on so many fronts.
So tell me about how China is waging this war on faith.
Well, really, that's the cover of the book.
It's a big dragon.
With strings controlling people underneath it is on the cover of the book, showcasing this war that China has with faith.
One of the guys that we feature in the book is Peter Hsu.
He was considered at the time one of the original house church leaders, the Billy Graham of China.
He's here with us in Washington with the book rollout.
And he said yesterday that China has been biding their time until they got strong, but now.
They are revealing their inner darkness.
And we must restrain this power of darkness.
That's Peter Shue saying that.
And I think that's what you're starting to see.
They are strong now, but this is all they're at war with God.
They are at war with all faith.
They can't tolerate any power that's higher than the government's.
They will not tolerate it.
They will suppress it.
They will kill you.
They will put you in prison.
The rest of Christian pastors now is the highest.
I would argue since Mao.
And that's what Xi Jinping is doing now.
And a lot of it's out of control.
They want to control the place.
They want to control other authoritarian regimes.
And so they share their technology and ability to do it.
It is a direct confrontation to the Western civilization system that's built on the Judeo Christian ethic of human dignity based on the individual created in the image of God.
So tell me, give me examples of what they're doing that people don't know.
In China.
Start there.
Well, most people don't know about the forced organ harvesting that you witnessed, that the Falun Gong members would talk about.
But they will, if you're an opponent of the regime, they take your blood type.
They want to know what type of blood, what type of body you have.
And then at their desired time, they will kill you and harvest the organs kidneys, livers.
I did the foreword for a book just recently out on Killed to Order, where these would be situated on a timing basis.
And, you know, this is so, Glenn, this is so diabolical and evil.
It's hard for you or me to imagine a government even thinking of something like this.
And yet they do it.
And if China were, and they deny it, of course, and everything.
Actually, for a while they didn't.
They said, well, yeah, we did.
For those that were having capital punishment, we thought this would be a good utilitarian thing to do to go ahead and harvest the organs, but we don't do it anymore.
Well, they do still do it, and they do it to Falun Gong members, they do it to Muslim Uyghurs, who all knows who else that they do it to.
And that's something I don't think people can fathom the evil of this regime.
This is an evil regime, and they have killed more people.
The Chinese Communist Party has killed more of their own people than any other regime in the history of mankind.
Let that one sink in.
If you count the forced abortions, the number is as many as 500 million.
Yes, and I'm not even counting the forced abortions in the statement I made.
And then at the current time, they've got three genocides going on now as we speak.
The Muslim Uyghurs that we had declared as a government at the end of the first Trump administration, the Tibetan Buddhists that they've gone at hammer and tong for decades now and doing a cultural genocide, but they've wiped out many people.
And of course, the Dalai Lama cannot return to his own home area, and the Chinese government wants to abortion.
Point his successor.
And then Fallen Gong, who they literally have decimated.
And I think they fear the Fallen Gong more than any religion because it's an indigenous Eastern religion.
It's what grandma used to practice.
And when they let it loose for seven years in China, where they said, okay, we'll let you guys practice this, it went from zero to 90 million adherents in seven years.
Oh my God.
And it freaked the Chinese government out.
And they said, these guys are dangerous.
And they went after him to Eliminate, annihilate them, which is the definition of genocide, where you're trying to eliminate a whole group of people.
So, Sam, you've talked to the president about all of this stuff.
He knows.
What are you hoping when he sits down with Xi Jinping this week?
What are you hoping we can get out of this?
Glenn, I think really both sides right now just want to calm the waters for a little bit and get the temperature down.
I am not expecting much.
I really hope he does get.
Like Pastor Ezra Jen out of jail, Jimmy Lai.
There's nine Catholic bishops that are detained, arrested.
I would hope they would release them.
I'm not expecting that, honestly.
I just think really this meeting right now is just trying to cool the waters down.
But I think when they raise Taiwan, which is a no go for us, we should raise religious freedom with them, which is a no go for them.
You're going to throw one out there that we don't like, fine.
We're going to throw one out there you don't like because they fear religious freedom more than they fear our aircraft carriers or our nuclear weapons.
Of course not.
This is their Achilles heel, and we should go right at them.
Same way Ronald Reagan did at the Soviet Union.
He traveled to America talking about the godless commies before he was president and citing the Jewish refusenix.
And it undermined the regime, its authority, and its legitimacy.
And that's what we need to do with the CCP.
How are the underground churches in China?
Are they still growing?
They were growing, but then they cracked down on them hard.
Are they still growing?
Nobody really knows.
But over the last few years, most people have been citing the fastest growing Christian churches in the world, have been the last couple years, last five years, in get this China and Iran.
Where the persecution is the greatest, but then that's where the faith grows the most, is when it's under pressure and duress.
I used to say if people actually understood Christianity, they wouldn't oppress it and suppress it, they would subsidize it.
If you want to really kill Christianity, subsidize it.
It really grows best under pressure.
I will tell you, I've talked to people who have escaped China who were in prison in China for their faith.
And their faith is enormous.
But one of them has told me, you know what we're all praying for in China?
All the Christians are praying.
What?
They're praying that the United States is going to fall into really hard times.
And I was like, why, why, wait, why would you pray for that?
And they're like, because you might remember who you are and you'll stand up again and you'll start serving God because we need your help.
I mean, that's pretty amazing.
Pretty amazing.
That's amazing.
Yeah, it really does.
The ones I've met, and many of them have been in jail multiple times and they call it Chinese seminary.
It's just, their faith is so beautiful and it's purified and There's a joy and a peace about them that you look at, you go, okay, that's the real deal.
I've seen it.
You've been with Jesus.
I can see it.
Sam, I'm in London this week.
Last question for the last couple of minutes.
But I'm in London, and there is a real problem with freedom of speech here.
And the keeper of the flame, the keeper of the protector of the faith, doesn't seem to be the strongest.
You know, keeper of the faith here.
How concerned are you on freedom of speech and where this is going with Christians in the UK?
I'm really concerned.
So much so, and where I was headed in the US, really, before President Trump came in, I got debanked the group I helped form, National Committee for Religious Freedom.
I mean, how more American can you be than that?
And we got debanked.
But there was this effort in the West to suffocate faith.
And the principles, the natural law principles that faith generally is around from coming into society because they weren't seen as the current cultural norms.
They were against what people wanted to do.
And look, faith has always stood against things that are trending the wrong way or evil in nature.
And it's always been this voice against that.
And people want to silence that voice by.
Debanking, deplatforming, and you see it more aggressively in Europe than we had seen it in the United States.
But I've been deeply concerned about that.
That suffocation move is what I call it.
They're not going to really throw you in jail, although they are in some places, but most of it's just about taking the insurance away from crisis pregnancy centers so that their board of directors don't have any coverage.
And so people go, well, I don't know that I want to go on there for that.
I'll be out there with you.
I'll contribute, but I'm not going to lead if I'm putting everything else on the line.
So that's really the effort in the West, and we've got to push back against and stand up against.
Sam, thank you so much.
Thanks for all your work over the years, and thank you for this new book, China's War on Faith by Sam Brownback.
It is out now wherever you get your books.
In it, he talks about the high tech, the digital authoritarianism that China is now pushing out over in 80 countries.
He calls them sinister new technologies.
Also, the campaigns on physical torture and imprisonment of people on faith.
These are all things that you need to know if you want to prepare for the world that we are entering in and you want to be well informed so nothing's slipping by you.