Jillian Michaels and Glenn Beck expose how Big Pharma, Food, and Ag profit from engineered obesity via the "bliss point" and glyphosate immunity laws. They critique the "body positivity" movement as a corporate distraction while discussing vaccine mandates for children under RFK Jr. and the Honus Wagner tobacco card story. The dialogue contrasts modern ideological tribalism with past tolerance, arguing that demonizing dissent alienates reasonables, whereas isolating true extremists and allowing radicals to face consequences may eventually restore common sense on issues ranging from sports to marriage rights. [Automatically generated summary]
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All right, fatties, listen up.
Two out of three adults in the U.S. are overweight or obese.
And if we don't do something, it's only downhill from here.
Big pharma, big food.
They say eat your Twinkies, get your yearly COVID shot, give little boys little pink estrogen and have pregnant women drink Tylenol from a straw.
As we speak, these companies are actually plotting how to keep you sick and fat for profit.
This is stuff five years ago, I would have had a hard time embracing, but the truth is the truth.
And my next guest says it's time for a reckoning to whip this nation into shape before we're too soft to defend our own rights.
Welcome, fitness expert, former trainer for the biggest loser, and somebody I just absolutely adore, the host of Keeping It Real podcast, Jillian Michaels.
Hello, Jillian.
Hi.
How are you?
I'm doing great.
How are you?
I'm good.
I'm such a fan of yours.
My wife told me last night, if you don't tell her how much of a fan I am.
So hello from my wife as well.
Oh, thank you so much.
Tell her hello back from me.
Yeah.
Can we just start quickly?
I just want to start at the beginning of because you were just a fitness freak, right?
And you didn't have an intention of going into this and you just kind of fell into it.
Well, I actually would say that I hated working out.
I still do.
But what I love is what it affords me.
I was an overweight kid.
I was bullied in junior high.
My parents were getting a divorce when I was 13.
I was going through a lot of stuff.
And my mom had the foresight to get me into martial arts because she thought, all right, she needs some sort of an outlet, some sort of community where she can feel like she belongs.
And I began to appreciate at a very young age without realizing the bigger lesson that when you feel strong physically, you feel stronger in every facet of your life.
So as I was pursuing my black belt over my teenage years, I had graduated high school early, not because I'm some sort of a genius, but just because my birthday falls on a weird date.
And so I'm 17 and a half.
I'm training from my black belt and people would see me at the gym and think I was a personal trainer.
So they started offering me an opportunity to train them.
And my mom, once again, had the foresight to say, I think you need some sort of a certification to do this job and got me my first little certification.
And the rest, as they say, is history.
So how did you get on to the biggest loser?
How did that happen?
Another very strange series of events.
So I had been a trainer until I was about 24 years old.
And of course, growing up in California, everybody worked in the entertainment industry.
So I was dating somebody who worked in the entertainment industry and said, I don't know what you're going to do.
You can't be a 30-year-old trainer.
What's your plan?
So I got out of fitness and into entertainment and I started working at a talent agency.
There I worked my way into motion picture packaging and I began to learn about how to fund projects.
I began to learn about branding.
I very clearly did not fit in this environment and ended up back in fitness by the time I was 27 working for a physical therapy center.
So I was doing PT under the supervision of licensed physical therapists and I began to bring in people from the entertainment industry.
I built this business up and thought I could do this myself.
I could open up my own sports medicine facility and have all these doctors working for me.
Right.
Even though I'm doing the actual work of fitness under their license and their supervision.
So I ended up doing that.
And one of my friends from that talent agency heard about Biggest Loser and suggested I go out for the job.
And I did.
And somehow they ended up hiring me, which to this day, I still can't figure out why.
So, I mean, it's really fascinating to me because you were, I mean, I just, I loved you on that show.
You were, I think they tried to make you into almost like what Simon became, where you're a hard ass.
And I think, I think Gordon Ramsey also is like this.
And if you look at you and you see you now outside of that reality TV, you look at Simon, who is still in some sort of reality TV, but he's not that way.
And both of you have something in common where I think telling the truth is sometimes seen as really harsh and mean, but you're not mean.
So did the, how did this reality thing work for you with being packaged as somebody who is just vicious?
Gosh, that's a great way to put it.
There's a quote that says, that which nourishes me also destroys me.
So the platform is the reason I'm fortunate enough to be sitting here speaking with you today.
And I will never negate that.
The platform allowed me to sell fitness programs and fitness apps and books globally.
I will never negate that.
But unquestionably, there was a ceiling that I would hit when trying to step out of the Darth Vader role on Biggest Loser.
And, you know, to this day, I look back and it's like, well, there's not a whole heck of a lot I could have done different because I wouldn't have changed what I was doing on the show and I couldn't control how they portrayed it.
So I have to imagine that what was meant to be was meant to be.
And I'm where I am for a reason.
And I'm not too unhappy about that.
I could, I wish the world was in a very different place, but I'm grateful for where I am in it.
Right.
So, you know, you got to take the good with the bad.
Right.
I mean, I kind of, in some way, I relate to that.
I, I, when I was doing my thing, it put me where I am at.
Um, and many of it, my mistakes and my presentation just trying to be funny and changing things up.
Um, but also the way the industry can shape you and you never get away from that.
It is so unbelievable how the machine can just turn you into something that you're just, you're not.
You're not.
I think about that all the time.
And it confounds me that people can't see through the propaganda narratives.
But you know what?
Some do.
And there's what, like 8 billion people on the planet.
I only need a handful of them to cut through the noise and see the truth.
I would love it if more were able to, especially with characters like Kennedy.
That one kills me because you got a guy who's very well-intentioned trying to do good things.
And they just smear him and make him look like he's absolutely mentally ill.
I think Newsweek printed an article saying, this is my favorite of all time, that he eats dogs.
And I just thought, this is Newsweek.
This is unhinged.
But I'm hoping more and more people wake up.
I'm also, to be dead honest, very disappointed in the way many see Charlie Kirk.
You don't have to agree with all of his positions, but to call him, oh, he's a racist and he's a bigot.
And have you watched him?
I know.
Have you actually watched him?
Did you listen to what he said about the Civil Rights Act?
Because it wasn't about providing people of color with equal opportunity, but they don't take the time.
And that's very disappointing because it is breeding chaos in this country far outside of what people think of me and whether or not they buy my friggin fitness app.
So I had somebody in my office yesterday and they brought up Charlie Kirk in my office.
And they brought up Charlie Kirk and said, yeah, but really who killed him?
And I about lost my mind.
I about lost my mind.
And I say, you're not coming into my office and spreading bull crap.
You know, what is wrong with you?
It is amazing to me how we've lost, we've, we've, we have lost the ability to reason.
We've lost the ability to, we are going and splitting into so many different tangents and so many different clubs of thought that, you know, we never went to the moon.
The Jews killed Charlie Kirk.
You know, RFK's eating dogs.
I mean, it's like, look, I don't, you don't have to agree with everything.
And there are many things that need to be questioned, but my gosh, you know, and the problem is you don't know where to separate because for a long time, I was, I was fine with, you know, better living through pharmaceuticals.
How Food Companies Addict Us00:10:06
I didn't think the pharmaceutical companies would do what I think they're doing.
You know, I didn't think our food companies would ever intentionally addict us to things.
You know, it just didn't seem because I wasn't like that.
And I didn't know anybody that would be like that.
But we're finding out that some of that is really true.
And it's very true.
Right.
It's very scary.
But I would say this.
Much of this is about the machine.
And the machine has a bottom line.
And the machine reports to Wall Street.
And so they need profit.
People are just cogs in that machine.
Right.
And I don't think these individuals are ill-intentioned, but they definitely get caught up in these industries and incentivized to like, hey, how many crunches on that chip are going to make it more appealing?
You're a food scientist.
This is your job.
And you probably got into the business because you wanted to facilitate some sort of invention.
I'll give you an example.
There's one called Appeal that got a really bad rap that is a coding on fruit and vegetables that allow the produce to not go bad for roughly a week or so longer.
This would be great, right?
And it's actually, I ended up doing a deep dive into it and it seems pretty safe, if you will.
Let's say you get into the industry to do things like this and to save the world and to feed the world and all of this good stuff.
But when you're getting hired to incentivize people to drink more soda and to eat more chips, that's unfortunately what's going to pay your bills.
So how do you, how do you know where the line is?
Because I think, look, America fed the world.
And, you know, we did all this GMO stuff.
We did everything, but we fed the world.
And so at the beginning, it was a really good thing.
And somewhere along the line, I don't know where, but somewhere along the line, that changed.
And so I just don't know where the line.
How do you know where the line is?
I'm actually writing a book about this right now.
And it looks at the ways in which our food policy, our policy around big ag, pharma, big insurance, at the ways in which these industries captured well-intentioned legislation and inverted them.
And it does, it's like, oh, mechanization after the war and we have to feed Europe.
And how can we manipulate this?
And how do we manipulate natural disasters to profit off of it financially?
And how do we, it's, it's crazy.
But the laws that were passed, and it's, it's so long, I would, I would love to come back next year and walk you through it, but it is absolutely nefarious because everything that was passed with the best of intentions ended up getting in the wrong hands and subsequently manipulated to be weaponized against the American people.
And of course, you're seeing that spread out globally, but in particular, we suffer the most here in the United States.
Unquestionably, we have the worst outcomes with regard to health and we spend the most on healthcare.
There's reasons why.
So I remember hearing this long time ago and I was like, come on, that we are, you know, our food is addicting and it's not good and our medicine is not really meant to heal us.
It's to keep us sick, et cetera, et cetera.
And I didn't believe that, but I do believe that.
I really do believe that now, at least to some degree.
I don't know how much is nefarious and how much just is.
You want to have a comment on that?
I could make this very simple.
If you deem profit over people is nefarious, then it is.
Okay, then it is.
That's what you're seeing.
Now, with that said, when it comes to big food, by the way, you'd have to start at big ag because it is a catastrophic quartet of big ag, then big food, then big pharma, and then big insurance.
And it's just the way the system is designed, unfortunately.
But if we were to look at the ways in which they engineer the food, there's something that most people will likely have heard of called the bliss point.
And this was created by a food scientist in the 1970s to look at the perfect ratio of fat and sugar and salt to trigger the bliss point of our brain to make us want more.
That is probably the least nefarious thing that has happened.
Oh, you're kidding me.
Wow.
No.
And it's exceptionally unfortunate.
But the reality is that there is a multidisciplinary team of scientists and behavioralists and marketing experts that work around the clock trying to figure out how to make you not eat just one.
That's not a slogan.
You can't eat just one.
That's a business model, period.
And even now, just wrote an article about this actually in the Daily Mail.
The food companies are trying to find a way to make these ultra-processed foods now bypass your GLP-1 hormone pathways because people taking weight loss drugs are breaking the addiction.
They are breaking the addiction.
Now, of course, there are side effects to that and it's exceptionally expensive.
And I wish we could do it in alternative ways that cost less and are healthier.
But nevertheless, it is costing a heck of a lot of money.
So what do they do?
All right.
What are we going to do about this?
How are we going to get around this?
How are we going to engineer these foods to bypass this?
Which is insane.
I take it.
That's evil.
That's evil.
Okay.
Well, that's happening.
So I can tell you what's happening.
And then you can ascribe any particular adjective that you like.
But that is the kind of stuff that is happening and has been happening for decades.
I was thinking about this the other day.
I was sitting at the table.
We were having some hamburgers and I looked at the ketchup bottle and I looked at the ingredients.
And I'm old enough to remember, I think, at least this is the way I remember it.
The ingredients of ketchup on Heinz used to be tomatoes, I think water, vinegar, salt, and maybe a little sugar.
But that was it.
And now it's stuff I've never even heard of.
And it's a paragraph of ingredients.
Why did that happen?
It happened for a host of reasons.
And by the way, there's a lot on the tomatoes that were used in that ketchup that you aren't seeing on the label.
So herbicides, fungicides, pesticides, chemical fertilizers.
And one little sidebar with regard to that stuff, while all of us are engaged in these ridiculous culture wars, which unfortunately are serious, but we're going after each other.
Meanwhile, the Uniparty in Washington is giving complete blanket immunity to the chemical companies for things like glyphosate, which we know are exceptionally dangerous to human health.
So we're sitting here, we're fighting about men and women's sports, unfortunately, as we should be, because it's not fair, but crazy stuff is happening.
And I have to wonder, is all of that by design to create such an insane distraction to all of these chemicals you're not seeing on the ketchup bottle that are actually in there?
Why has this ingredient list expanded in the way that it has to make it taste even better so that you choose that bottle of ketchup over this bottle of ketchup, maybe to make it glow in a brighter color of red?
Again, so you're more attracted to that bottle of ketchup over this bottle of ketchup to make it last on the shelf through a zombie apocalypse because it's more profitable when you have less spoilage.
All of these different reasons that all come down to profit.
How do we make it taste better?
How do we attract you more to it?
How do we make it last longer on the shelf?
Period.
End of story.
We're all getting older, and I don't know about you, but I've definitely felt the aches and pains that come along with the kind of thing of, you know, ouch aging.
I used to suffer from horrible pain in my hands pretty much all the time.
And I went to some of the best doctors in the world trying to get this to end.
And I say I used to have it because I tried everything I could and nothing worked until the day something finally did.
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Relief Factor: The Natural Solution00:10:54
My wife and I went over to Italy, I don't know, a year ago, and I never felt better with the food.
I was not really hungry.
You know what I mean?
There were smaller portions, and I never felt, you know, like, I need a big ball of whatever.
And I like to eat.
And it's not the same at all over there.
And I just saw a video of a woman who said we had moved to Italy.
We had a child.
She's four.
We just moved back to the United States.
She said she keeps pushing everything away, saying that's not chicken.
That's not tomatoes.
That's not, she said, because we were buying everything, you know, at the farmer's market in Italy and we were using, you know, not this high-processed food.
And she said, I didn't realize because she was American, I didn't realize how different our food is over here.
Oh, yeah.
I mean, if we just look at what's the most obvious example being pasta, here you've got genetically engineered wheat, right?
You know, they engineered soy, genetically engineered corn, so on and so forth.
There, you've got heirloom varieties of wheat that have been around for thousands and thousands of years that we've adapted to eating over thousands of years.
It's unlikely that they spray that wheat with even half of the garbage we put on our crops here because a lot of it is illegal over in Europe.
They allow the wheat to germinate before they harvest it.
And here we do it too soon, which is one of the reasons I think so many people have a gluten intolerance.
It's very interesting.
They're not celiac, but I've talked to many gastroenterologists and many doctors who deal with autoimmune conditions.
And they think the fact that it's like, well, okay, it's a genetically engineered crop.
It's sprayed with all this stuff.
It hasn't had a chance to germinate or sprout.
We think that this is creating gastrointestinal issues.
We don't know yet because nobody's funding specific research about that stuff, unfortunately, because again, it's not profitable and industry funds a large amount of the research.
Which is crazy.
That's that.
Just look, just look at the base of what you're starting with.
Just look at the base of that pasta before we get to all the garbage that's added to it so it can sit on the shelf for two years, right?
And all of the stuff that they're putting on top of it.
Now, in Europe or other parts of the developed world, they have laws surrounding so many of these different chemicals that have entered our food supply.
We have had something here now.
Kennedy is reevaluating it called the grass rule, which is called the generally recognized as safe rule.
And it's a loophole with the FDA that essentially allows roughly 9,500 different chemicals and preservatives and food additives into our stuff that's not allowed in other parts of the developed world.
And basically, this gives big food the ability to vouch for the safety of these ingredients.
So, is this safe?
Oh, it's generally recognized as safe.
Well, who's got the data?
Oh, big food says it's good.
It's good.
It's recognized as safe.
They said so.
They did the work.
We believe it.
And that's how all of this stuff is in our food, but not the food in Italy.
So, for example, why do you go to Canada and you have a box of fruit loops?
It's not the same.
It's not the same ingredients as it is here.
Why do we put all of that crap in our food?
So, when you go to Canada and you look at the fruit loops, the red little fruit loop is kind of like a want wa.
You know, you're like, it's like a little kind of like a blushed fruit loop.
But our fruit loop glows in the freaking dark.
Our fruit loops are look at that fruit loop, like a disco friggin' bowl of cereal.
Oh my goodness.
And for kids, if one cereal is a wat wah and one cereal is disco cereal, like they are going that direction, period.
That's what all the research shows.
So you're going to want your cereal to be chosen over their cereal.
And here in America, you're allowed to do it.
Whereas in Canada, you're not.
Why?
This has to do with Citizens United.
It has to do with the fact that these big corporations are allowed to buy our politicians.
Period.
This, this doesn't happen in other parts of the world.
I think what is it, like one other country that allows for this kind of lobbying to occur?
I can't remember which one.
I know there's, I know New Zealand is one of the only other places that drug companies are allowed to advertise to the general population, but that's not allowed in any other part of the world.
It's not allowed for Coca-Cola to go and donate money to the, you know, the prime minister in the UK.
You can't do that there.
Whereas here, it's like he who has the most money wins.
Okay, we're going to give you $10 million towards your campaign.
And when the time comes, we want you to push this legislation through, that legislation through.
We all know this.
But when we ask why here and not there, it's a myriad of different things, but that's top of the list.
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So are we going to be able to change this?
I mean, you look at, you know, you said RFK is made to look insane.
Honestly, every time you say something, and I think, I mean, I agree with your stance on vaccines, et cetera, et cetera.
Can we just have a conversation about it?
Can we just, I mean, there are some things that are so obvious.
There's some, like, you know, the whole, you know, the whole peanut allergy thing.
I don't know what that's from, but I will tell you, it wasn't happening when I was growing up and we had peanuts.
So, you know, there are things that are happening that are, that everybody's like, oh, well, I don't know.
It's just the way it is.
No, there's something happening.
And I don't know why we can't just have that conversation, but you're made to look insane on vaccine.
You are absolutely an anti-vaxxer and you're not.
No, I'm not at all.
I'm not at all.
And you know what's interesting is that the vaccine conversation is a red herring.
Kennedy said repeatedly, I'm not going to take away your vaccines.
Right.
And he hasn't taken away your vaccines.
He removed a mandate for COVID vaccs for kids.
In other words, he had it removed from the CDC's schedule.
When you do that, what's on the schedule in most states is required for kids to go to school.
So essentially, by taking it off, you remove the mandate.
That's because all of the science that we're told to trust shows that the vaccine is contraindicated for kids, that kids have a greater risk of having a vaccine injury versus having a serious complication with COVID.
This is not coming from me.
This is coming from Dr. McCary, Dr. Bhattacharya, Dr. Means.
I mean, these are doctors that have gone to Stanford, Harvard.
These are not kooks or quacks.
These are just doctors that are brave enough to go against the grain.
Now, why did they start that vaccine conversation?
Because they could say, oh, look, look how crazy he's trying to kill you.
He's anti-science.
He's living in the dark ages.
Don't look over here at the fact that we are giving chemical companies immunity for glyphosate.
Don't look over here.
Don't look over here with regard to what's going on with your food.
No, no, don't look over here.
What's in your baby formula?
Because Kennedy is opening up that whole can of worms with Operation Stork.
No, nothing to see here.
Just know that he's a crazy anti-vaxxer and your child will die of measles.
To be dead honest with you, this was never a hill I wanted to die on.
I never even thought anything of this.
I worked with so many different doctors over the course of my career.
My kids were all vaccinated.
I never blinked twice.
But when they started saying you can't ask the questions, I started asking the questions.
And here's what I'm going to say about the vaccine conversation.
And this is after interviewing epidemiologists, virologists, pediatricians.
Here's what we know for a fact.
This is not settled science.
And I strongly suggest that if anyone's curious, there's a book by a pediatrician who has also his MS in epidemiology.
I believe it's called Worth a Shot.
His name is Dr. Joel Worsh.
There is no study.
Let's just take hepatitis B. There's no longitudinal safety study for hepatitis B with inert placebo or a community of kids that were not vaccinated versus kids that were vaccinated.
It doesn't exist.
Now, hepatitis B is a vaccine for a pathogen that we know you catch through risky unprotected sex and intravenous drug use.
Why are we giving it to kids on their first day of life?
Well, mom could have it, but you could test mom.
The Hepatitis B Vaccine Debate00:07:55
So why are you doing still why?
If you can't ask that question or you can't ask why the schedule got so much more aggressive after the drug companies were given blanket immunity in 1986, you can't sue them for vaccine injuries.
The schedule got exceedingly more robust.
Why?
Is it too much too soon?
These are very reasonable questions and it is simply not settled science.
Period.
End of story.
Is any science?
Is any science actually settled ever?
I mean, science always seems to evolve.
Yeah, we're not, we're not ever there.
I don't, I don't understand when you can't question.
And it's so weird.
As a conservative, growing up as a conservative, you know, there's a lot of things that the liberals had right.
And as I'm like, as I'm looking at things, I'm like, wait a minute, they had that one right.
Wait a minute.
The military industrial complex, they had that one right.
And as I start to move that way, all of a sudden all the liberals are like, we don't believe any of that stuff anymore.
We don't, you're like, what?
Wait, what's happening?
What's happening?
You were right.
Why are you abandoning this position?
You were right.
What is happening?
Because those are not liberals.
So as you've maybe moved a little in that direction, true liberals like myself moved in your direction.
Correct.
And I've met in the middle.
You're talking about far leftists, radicals, woke progressives.
And that is not a traditional liberal at all.
I am terrified by what that is.
What do you think that is?
Ideology, brainwashing, insane propaganda from politicians trying to rally a base against a common enemy, legacy media, you know, using rage bait for clicks, globalists manipulating the narrative so we fight with each other instead of paying attention to the stuff that really matters.
And people fall for it.
Just the way you and I were talking earlier, they fall for it.
If I could tell you some of the insane things that I have heard since Trump took office in January, listen, I'm more than happy to tell you the things about Trump I wish he didn't do or I don't like.
I am not a tribalist at all.
I truly am an independent.
I like to call balls and strikes because I think it's what would give me authenticity.
Even if you don't like me, I would hope that at least you trust I'm telling you what is my truth and I'm not trying to manipulate you.
But people will say things to me like, he's trying to take away women's right to vote.
Wow, I didn't, I didn't know that.
Tell me, how is that?
I'm so confused.
Oh, well, you see, he's, he wants a birth certificate for you to vote now and women change their name.
I'm like, well, hold on.
I get on my trusty little computer and I hit up Google and it turns out that you could show proof of marriage or a name change and you could still vote.
And they're like, well, let's just see where this goes.
I'm like, why don't we actually do that?
Why don't we see where it goes before you jump to these kinds of insane conclusions?
I'll give you one more.
I was sitting with someone who I think is lovely and trying to convince me that the Trump administration has put out a list of words.
And on this list of words is the word woman.
And any research that includes the word woman has been canceled.
And I said, well, you know, listen, I do know that a lot of research has been cut.
It has to do with funding.
I'm not super happy about that.
There were things they moved too quickly on, like Alzheimer's research.
Like there are mistakes that were made.
Even Kennedy will tell you, listen, you know, we don't have the money for it.
Like mistakes were made.
We're trying to put some of these things back in place.
I wish they'd moved a bit slower on some of it.
There is no such list.
I literally got home with my kids and I was like, let's, let's have a fun little thought experiment, shall we?
Open up the computer and see if you can find me this list that has all of the words.
We're not allowed to engage in research grants and do research on.
There's no list.
It's a mythic list.
It doesn't exist.
But people don't take the time to get past the rhetoric from the Gavin Newsoms and the Jamie Pritzkers and the CNNs.
They just ingest it and they become outraged and they act on that outrage and it begets itself.
So I understand.
I understand that.
I agree with what you're saying here, but there's another level to it.
You're saying you can't use the word woman, but you can't tell me what a definition of a woman is.
And you changed the A to a Y in woman.
What are you talking about?
What are you talking about?
You're amazing at discussing this.
Have you spoken to Professor Gadsad yet?
Oh, yeah, I love him.
He does this better than anyone else.
And he calls it suicidal empathy.
Yeah.
And I noticed that I've always been prone to this, which is why I think I was a liberal my whole life on top of growing up in California.
And this is just what you do.
This is who you are.
This is what we all are here.
And then when it stopped making sense to me, obviously, I was able to step outside of that bubble and hopefully see things more for what they actually are.
But with that said, I still do notice a propensity for that.
So I see ICE agents getting doxxed and getting attacked.
And that same feeling of injustice and rage and empathy comes up for these guys because I'm thinking, hold on a second, you might not like what they're doing, but their job is to enforce laws and acted by Congress and you're blaming the wrong guy.
Now I have, and I feel very justified in that position, by the way, but this kind of outrage and identification is happening on the left, but it's happening for trans people.
And they don't have the ability to step outside of that and have empathy for the biological females in sports or to have concern for the children that transitioned and are now detransitioning with regret that they've sterilized themselves or they have permanent sexual dysfunction.
There is a very bizarre identification and it breeds this suicidal empathy that makes you incapable of seeing all sides.
And I think you have to be aware of these blind spots when applying this empathy.
So when I look at these ICE agents, I'm like, well, I do feel terrible for good people who want a chance at a better life.
But instead, I want to go about it with regards to who am I going to vote for that's going to reform policy to get bad guys out and give an opportunity for good guys to help us grow the economy and let the culture thrive.
But that is what's happening.
It is an identification with who they perceive as a victim that becomes internalized.
And when they see that person being victimized, it's some sort of deep, I know this sounds crazy, but some sort of deep psychological wound.
And they react to it.
They can't see logically.
It isn't about logic.
It's about ideology.
It isn't about community.
It's actually about a certain form of narcissism.
And again, I say this being vulnerable to it myself, truthfully.
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It's interesting because I think that started with the best of intentions, like everything does.
I remember Tanny Bruce wrote a great book in the 90s about language.
And I was, you know, I have a daughter of special needs and, you know, handy capable in the 90s.
And like, I'm fine.
I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings.
I don't want anybody, you know, you don't, fine, if that makes you feel better.
That's great, you know, and I can soften my language, et cetera.
But then you get to like, I don't want you to feel bad that you're fat, you know, because some people really struggle and you don't feel good when you're fat.
You don't feel good about yourself in the first place.
You don't need me to dogpile.
But we've gone from, hey, let's be kinder to each other to fat is healthy.
Celebrate your fatness.
You're like, that, that, that's, it's, it's almost as if this whole thing is a culture of death.
It's just a death cult.
Everything in the end ends up in, I'm going to kill you because I disagree with, or I'm going to encourage the things that will make you want to kill yourself or just die because you're going to drop dead of a heart attack because I'm telling you all the things that are really bad for you are good.
You know, that body positivity narrative is actually a big food psyop.
And this isn't a conspiracy theory.
The Washington Post actually wrote about it, where they co-opted this message of like, hashtag derail the shame.
No food is junk food.
And if you say it is, you're a racist, you're an ableist, big is beautiful.
And they paid dieticians and influencers to put this messaging out into the world.
They were behind all of this because there was a profit incentive there.
But then what happens is the person that thinks they're morally superior, it's like, oh my God, I feel so bad for you, which is totally normal, but that's called empathy, not sympathy.
Sympathy is, oh, you know, you poor, sad, sorry little thing.
You're not capable of more.
So I'm just going to tell you it's all okay.
And then I feel really good about myself.
I'm a really good person who doesn't judge.
But the reality is that the earth is not flat.
Up is not down.
Like this, this is the science.
And if you truly care about that person, you can give them the facts and help them put those facts to work in order to improve their life.
People should work out because they love their body, not because they hate it, right?
They should be incentivized from a place of self-love and value.
But the message was inverted by the big food corporations.
And then the culture warriors grabbed onto it to virtue signal or get paid.
That's, that's what happened there.
There's also a problem, though, with, I don't know, self-responsibility.
You know, I know biggest loser, I think, weren't some people saying there should have been a halfway house for me because I gained my weight back.
I should have, you should have given me a gym membership.
And it's like, dude, what are you talking about?
You saw the results.
Now go out yourself and do it.
There's also this lack of any kind of responsibility.
Well, we struggle with that across the spectrum.
Yeah.
Right.
So you see it in race.
Oh, well, you know, I'm completely disadvantaged because white people did this to me or their ancestors did this to me and the system did this to me.
Hear me out.
I'm, I'm genetically overweight and the system has set me up to fail.
I, you list the minority and I will, I will give you the victimology that is ascribed to assigned to it.
Now, you know, with that said, many times there's truth to that.
So again, I'll use my area of expertise.
We all know slavery was real and we could get into redlining and Jim Crow.
We could get into all of that stuff.
But at the end of the day, right, I'll use an example that's right in my strike zone.
If I have an individual who was sexually abused and she began eating in order to desex, now she's not conscious of this.
It's an unconscious defense mechanism of comfort, control, and desexualization.
The food is providing her with something so deeply significant that it meant her psychological survival at that time.
Now, here's the problem.
You got a 40-year-old woman now who is on biggest loser at 450 pounds overweight.
And at some point, if she doesn't accept the role she's played here, and it's not about blame and it's not about judgment, it's like, hey, you made these choices and you made them for this reason and that's okay, but you continue to make them.
And that is what's begetting this devastating outcome.
And if you don't stop now, if you don't take responsibility tomorrow when you pick up that Twinkie and realize the choice is now yours, then there's nothing you can do to change it.
The victim narrative feels great because you don't have to look in the mirror and people don't want to.
It's like, oh, I must be lazy if I can't lose the weight or I must be pathetic if I can't climb out of my conditions.
So everybody did this to me.
And while there is an element of that, you cooperated.
And the only way out is if you stop cooperating and start responding to the things that may have very legitimately victimized you in a different way to get a different outcome.
You know, I'm a, I'm a recovering alcoholic.
And, you know, I started using drugs and everything when I was young.
My mother died when I was young.
And by the time I was 30, I was completely out of control and knew I was either going to die or I was going to change my life.
And I drank because I had legitimate things that I hadn't dealt with in my life that had happened to me, et cetera, et cetera.
But it was still my choice.
And I, I mean, everybody in my family is an alcoholic.
I mean, I don't know if I'm genetically predisposed to alcoholism or not.
It doesn't matter to me.
It's still my choice.
And, you know, that is that's that I think that's why we're here on earth.
We are, we are either going to be an object that are, that is acted upon, or we are a person that acts.
Which one are you?
That's the only way out of it without question.
But in order to help people get there, we do have to approach it with no judgment.
Yeah.
We really do because the judgment is what's behind it.
People don't want to be judged.
They already feel ashamed of it.
So instead of feeling ashamed, I can feel like a victim and then I'm justified, right?
And I can be indignant about all of it.
There has to be a middle ground here where we acknowledge, hey, Glenn, what happened to you is awful.
I want to validate your feelings here.
Yeah.
And this is very real, right?
Let's talk about you turn to this because you were in pain.
That's not you turn to it because you're a low life drug addict, loser, blah, blah, blah, fat, lazy, this, that, the other.
That's, that's not going to get anyone anywhere.
We have to move away from all that.
That's what I was feeling.
I was telling myself that at the time.
I didn't need you to tell me that.
I was telling I'm a loser.
I can't control myself.
I can't stop.
I mean, you got all that.
You need somebody just to tell you the truth with empathy.
And I mean, the 12-step program worked for me because it helped me find the truth and then realize I'm not any of those things.
And I'm not any of those things that have been in my head that I've lived through or whatever.
That's not who I am.
I get to choose who I am.
We have to show people that, though.
And that's one of the most amazing things about the 12-step program is because it was a roadmap for this kind of healing.
We don't really have that with food.
There's OA and all of that, but it isn't incredibly effective.
And the other issue is that we are constantly surrounded by food.
So, for example, if I go to my son's baseball game, there's going to be five food trucks, but there isn't a bar.
You know, if I, if I go to my office to begin my workday, there's going to be donuts and bagels, but there's probably not a bottle of vodka or a six-pack on the counter.
Unlikely.
And I don't need vodka to survive.
I must have food.
And the food is being engineered to make me addicted to it.
And that's the other part is that it is brilliantly engineered to essentially co-opt your physiology.
It's like, all right, how do we work with your humanity and hijack it?
That's literally what they're doing.
And then we've got marketing people and behavioralists to try to engineer a sense of community and belonging.
I mean, why do you think we've got rock stars and athletes?
They're like pied piper for kids.
I mean, I don't mean to call these guys out, but I will, I guess, because if you look at the Kelsey brothers, these guys were making jokes about how sugar cereal is dessert for breakfast.
And within a month, they had a deal for their own sugar cereal.
I mean, you got like, who do you think looks up to these guys?
One of them is marrying the top pop star in the world.
He's a unbelievably respected athlete.
Kids want to be like him.
So it's just, it's so manipulative on so many levels.
They surround you with it.
They engineer it to hijack your biology.
They trap you into a sense of belonging with behavioralists and marketers.
It's bananas.
So food is just, I don't want to say significantly harder.
That's not true.
It has many layers of complexity that you might not find with alcohol or cigarettes, but it's all very hard and deeply rooted in, in my opinion, in pain and trauma.
And we need to be empathetic to that, not sympathetic.
Back to final piece with Jillian here in just a second.
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So when you were talking about the Kelsey brothers and their cereal, I thought of Honus Wagner.
You know who Honus Wagner was?
Honus Wagner was early turn of the century, last turn of the century.
He was a baseball player, a decent one, but probably somebody that nobody would really remember.
His baseball card is the most coveted and expensive baseball card in all of history.
I think it's now worth about $4 million.
And the reason why is because as they were making the baseball cards for everybody, I think he played for Boston, and they were making everybody's baseball card.
And they came to him and gave him, you know, the box of the baseball cards.
And he took it out and he was really excited.
And then he flipped it over.
And on the back side, it said Piedmont Tobacco.
And he said, kids have my baseball card.
I don't want to tell kids that tobacco is okay.
And they said, Honus, that's the sponsor.
And if you don't have one, if you don't take this card, you're never going to get another baseball card.
And he said, I don't want another baseball card if it says that.
And he instructed all of them to be destroyed.
And there's probably 10 that survived, but it's his character that made his baseball card the most coveted in the world, which I just, that is such a great story.
We don't have those people anymore.
Well, here's the problem.
You do.
But they turn around and they tell you that they eat dogs or they kill your grandma or, you know, I would tell you, I was interviewing a doctor the other day who wants to see the COVID shots pulled.
From Gay Marriage to Immigration00:15:04
And I was trying to push back just to be responsible because I couldn't get anybody who opposes her to come on and debate with her.
They all refused to come on and debate with her.
So I thought, oh my God, how am I going to do this without looking like a crazy anti-vaxxer?
And I researched all of the narratives that oppose her position.
And she stops and she looks at me and she goes, Jill, do you know how hard this has been for me to take this position?
I went to Stanford.
I was one of the top physicians at one of the top hospitals in Texas.
You know how much this has cost me in every single possible way?
Why do you think that I would take this on if I didn't have good reason to be very concerned?
And the thing is, this woman has made an exceptional sacrifice, but everyone just thinks she's nuts, despite the fact that she's brilliant and went to Stanford and was very highly respected and acclaimed prior to telling this truth or her version of the truth or her concerns.
We can spin it now.
I don't think it's, let me switch subjects, but on that, I've, you know, Fordham University, while my daughter was going to Fordham, held a rally against me right before they asked me to help them build a library.
They held a rally against me because they said that I was anti-gay.
And my daughter came to my house and she said, Dad, why do you hate gay people so much?
And I said, what?
And she said, why do you hate gay people so much?
And I said, what are you talking about?
And she said, gay marriage.
I said, honey, I was for gay marriage in the 90s.
I was for gay marriage before anybody was talking about gay marriage.
And the reason why I was there was who in those days, who would choose to have that lifestyle?
You were a pariah.
You had to hide.
Who would do that?
You don't make that choice at your own peril.
I mean, maybe some people would, but I just didn't think that was right.
And when you're an adult, I don't care.
I really, your choice is your choice.
You do what you want.
And I say that because I want to go to transgender.
I don't have, I, you know, when I, when I heard Bruce Jenner become Caitlin, my first thought was, I think I might have actually wept, that the guy who I idolized on Weedies hated himself that much the whole time.
He spent his whole life hating who he was hiding and saying, this is not me.
Who could possibly hate that guy?
But we have come to this place to where we're honestly where the Weimar Republic was in 25, 1925, when they did the first transgender surgery and killed the guy in 29 by sewing a uterus inside of him.
We have we've come to this place to where it's not compassion at all.
You're not, you're not.
When did it become normal?
When did it become okay for anyone to say a man who's a man or a man who thinks he's a woman or a woman who's a woman or whatever, it doesn't matter, is doing a pole dance to my first grader.
When did we accept that and say, oh, that's, and yet that's what we're arguing with.
We're arguing with people who say, how dare you say that's not good.
You're like, what new information did you get?
Please tell me, what new information did you get?
I can't believe you're saying this.
I was actually putting together a little segment with regard to immigration.
And I went back and I watched Clinton talk about it.
He was president, Hillary talk about it when she ran for president.
Barack talk about it when he was president.
And you feel like you're watching Donald Trump.
Right.
And I'm like, wait a second, though.
All you guys in the streets right now were alive when they said this.
You didn't burn anything down and you actually all voted for them.
So back to the, like, when did we, how?
It's as though the tide went out and took half of the liberals with it.
I don't know why to this moment, I don't know where.
I don't know how.
I'm confused.
We were all on the same page here.
And for some reason, it's like now that same exact position makes me throw cinder blocks at federal law enforcement officers and dox them and go after their families.
I don't know.
The trans issue is interesting in that.
If you want to live your life again, like the way you talk about being gay, I don't care what you do.
As long as you're happy, you have your sovereignty over your own world, your own body, your own life.
But the problem here, which was, by the way, a very liberal position, I'll have you know, Glenn.
Oh, I'm very well aware.
I'm very well aware.
But the, the, where we cross the line is that when your personal choices are now impacting hundreds of thousands of biological females in sports, this is a very different conversation.
I told my, I answered my daughter, I said, first of all, it was always for this.
And second of all, this is not what it's about, honey.
It's not about love.
It's about control.
That's what it's really about.
You watch, it will spread to everything.
And then when you get to the point to where you can't change one thing without saying, look, I'll change it, but I will not change you.
You and your church, you do whatever.
I love a dog and I'm going to be married by that tree.
That's fine.
Whatever.
But you can't tell me what to do or what to believe.
If we leave each other alone, it's fine, but that's not what it's about.
And look at how that has just, I met with the president of GLAAD while they were throwing gay people off the roof in Iran.
And you remember that time?
And I met with the head of GLAAD, me.
I would have been crucified by my audience.
And I went to them and I said, listen, we've got to come together on a few principles.
And we can argue about wedding cakes forever.
But I know and you know that has to stop.
Why don't we come together and say we don't agree on almost anything, but this we agree on and try to come together?
They wouldn't do it.
They wouldn't do it.
You're like, then what are you really about?
What are you about other than power?
What's crazy is that did not used to be the party.
I mean, we could look at everything from socialism to immigration to gay marriage.
I mean, just like there's videos of Joe Biden.
That's never going to happen.
I mean, that was not the party.
And again, what it has been replaced with is dogma, ideology, tribalism.
There's a moral inversion there that is impossible to penetrate.
And this is no longer the party of tolerance or being liberal with a live and let live mentality.
They're the exact opposite.
They're everything that a traditional liberal fought against.
And what's crazy is that the right, I hope you and your audience will forgive me.
This is my personal observation.
The right is the one with the bigger tent.
The right is the one that is becoming more tolerant.
It is.
The right is the party that's starting to look a heck of a lot more diverse to me these days.
And the right is where I identify with the most.
And people who don't believe in gay marriage, I understand that.
I'm not trying to change your mind.
I'm not trying to get married in your church.
I appreciate, you know, a lot of times it has to do with your religion and I respect that as well.
The simple conversation I have had with these individuals is the problem is that a federally recognized marriage comes with a thousand plus rights and it's how I protect my kids and so on and so forth.
Surely you can get behind that.
And I can also understand that they feel, you know, this problem with gay marriage is a slippery slope and now we're here and I told you so.
It's like, okay, but surely we can agree on a world that is on the spectrum of sex changes for children and kids in the closet and can't get married, right?
Like, how do we meet here?
Work with me to get here, just like what you're talking about.
And the right is willing to do that.
The left is not.
So how do we?
And it's their downfall.
No, you won't.
There's no healing.
There's no fixing.
There's no coming back.
But that means we write off 40% of the country, 30% of the country.
No.
And Megan Kelly said this to me when I asked her the same question.
And she's like, forget it.
You're not going to get very far.
This was two years ago.
And she was right.
Now I'm alt-right.
I'm MAGA.
I'm anti-vax.
I probably eat dogs because this is what they do.
The minute you try to bridge those ideologies or to do some good, it's like the spin machine gets going and she hates fat people and she hates black people and she this, she, this, she this.
And then the minute you try, the other half of the country just believes it.
I think personally, what we need to do is not demonize those people.
I understand why they're out in the street.
I think they're misinformed, but I think they're, they genuinely feel, they genuinely believe that Hitler has embodied Trump and they need to do something about it.
I don't think they are evil.
I think they are confused and misled.
Right.
So I think it's not about demonizing them.
It is about continuing to live the truth.
And at one point, by the way, this ideology will come for them because it comes with all everybody on the left.
It came for me.
It came for Tulsi.
It came from Elon.
It came for Kennedy.
It comes for everybody.
And then all of a sudden they're going to open their eyes.
They're going to see that Glenn Beck talks about supporting gay marriage in the 90s.
And they're going to realize, wait a second, if I was wrong about this, what else was I wrong about?
And I think that's the way is not to demonize those people, to leave the door open for those people, to continue to live our truth and know that if we just let the radicals keep talking and keep doing what they're doing, their riots are going to stop one of those moms from getting her kid to school or they're going to shut down one of their friends' businesses.
Something is going to happen that impacts their life with this kind of crazy.
Their eyes are going to open.
And this is when they will find the truth on their own, like I did.
So I would agree with you, but I have one caveat concern that I'd like you to address.
Okay.
It's becoming a culture of death.
When you can celebrate Charlie Kirk, when you can say, kill him, because I disagree.
And it is happening.
I mean, Julian, I was on stage filling in for Charlie right after he died.
And I had to go up to a university campus.
And I'm sitting there and there's 3,000 kids.
And the majority of them are all cool.
They might disagree here and there on different things.
But there was a subset in there that was conservative and it maybe was 5% that was so unbelievably dangerous in their thinking.
I walked off stage and I walked right to my security chief and I said, forget the left.
I'm in these crowds all the time.
And that's the kind of person that will kill me.
We have to be careful.
It is, it's, it's just beginning in the right, but it is everywhere in the left.
And it's how do you, I mean, we don't, we're going to run out of time before people just start to say, kill them.
I, I don't disagree with you.
What I do think has to happen is a isolation and a marginalizing of those voices.
And I'm not seeing that.
Yeah, Virginia.
Look at what's happening in Virginia.
Yep.
I'm not seeing that.
And that's what needs to happen on both sides.
Yes.
Period.
And I'm not actually quite sure outside of honestly labeling Antifa and the behavior that goes along with that description, since there's no, like, you don't get a card when you sign up.
Yeah.
But you, you engage in those behaviors that are associated with that kind of domestic terrorism.
You start giving these guys serious consequences for these actions, which I know Trump is trying to do.
Then I think you diminish it.
You don't elevate it.
And there's a gentleman on the right who, in my opinion, and I don't want to say his name for all the reasons we're discussing, who I think actually is all the things that they accuse Charlie of being.
And I've taken my time and I've watched him because when my young son actually started watching Charlie Kirk and I had heard all the rumors, oh, he's a racist, he's a bigot, he's this, he's that.
And I thought, oh, geez, I better take a look at this.
What is this kid watching?
And I was like, honey, you know, this is years ago now.
Honey, what are you watching?
You're watching politics on YouTube with your fishing and your baseball videos.
And this is where I first learned about Charlie.
And I thought, oh, this guy's not none of these things.
This is crazy.
So I similarly looked into this other individual and he is in fact all of those things.
Charlie Kirk: A Father's Surprise00:04:47
And I am seeing him now be platformed on major shows.
And I'm not for deplatforming, but let him have his own show on his channel.
When you put him on big platforms, you're basically saying it's okay.
And that does worry me a little bit.
And again, like I hate to do that.
I'm not for cancel culture.
I wouldn't have him kicked off of YouTube or his own platform ever.
But I also think we need to, there should be a healthy amount of shame in our culture and going after true racists and true anti-Semites because they exist.
That needs to be condemned.
And when they act on it, it needs to be severely punished.
And those voices need to be isolated and they need to be marginalized and common sense needs to be rewarded.
And this is something I'm trying and I don't know how it's going to work out for me.
But when someone like Van Jones, who I have a real hard time with, comes out and says, Charlie did reach out to me and he said, let's agree disagreeably.
I reposted that because it's like, thank you for saying.
No, I think those have to, they have to be.
I have the same feeling about Van Jones as well.
But I did the same thing.
We have to say when somebody does something right, even if we disagree with everything else, we just have to recognize good for them.
Good for them.
Thank you for saying that.
Yeah.
Otherwise, what's their incentive to do so?
Like, do you know how many clips of John Fetterman I've watched?
Because he's like, I'm not shutting down the government.
People need to eat and they need the, they can't pay mortgage.
They're mortgage.
I thought, John Fetterman, I did not have this guy being a hero of the left on my bingo card.
No.
But I'm like, I want to elevate that.
I respect that.
I appreciate that.
Thank you for that.
John Fetterman, I think, is one of the biggest surprises of my life watching politics.
I'm like, this guy was going to be a nightmare.
And all of a sudden, I'm like, wait a minute.
He's still a nightmare in ways, but he's also logical in others.
The guy with, quote, brain damage has more brain power than everybody else there.
It's crazy.
It's crazy.
Crazy.
I totally agree.
We live in such a weird world.
Just live in such weird times.
So it has really been wonderful to get to know you and talk to you.
As I said at the beginning, my wife and I have been fans of yours for a very long time.
And you're just, you're a good soul.
You're a really good soul and a positive impact in our society.
And those don't happen all the time.
And thank you for that.
Well, it's absolutely mutual.
And I can't tell you how much I appreciate you having me on and allowing me to speak with you and your audience.
I'm exceptionally grateful.
And just to make one more point, it is this kind of reach out and bridging of ideologies and finding common ground that is happening on the right, not the left.
I know.
And I couldn't be more grateful to you for doing it.
I tell you, I've been trying to reach out with people.
This is five years ago, six years ago, maybe eight years.
I don't even know how long.
But tried to reach out to people who maybe could be reasonable and agree on certain things and they would never come on my show.
But now it's common.
Now it's starting to happen because they've, I think they've seen, wait, I might not be with you on everything, but I'm definitely not that.
And I would rather be with people where I can have a reasonable disagreement with than in this place to where, I mean, you know it.
You got, you were slaughtered, slaughtered.
How lonely it must be when everybody who you thought, you know, you trusted and you're friends with and everything else, all of a sudden just go, not talking to you anymore.
Oh, God, that's exactly it.
Yep.
You're like, I don't think this person follows me anymore.
I just said their name under the like on Instagram.
Come to think of it, they never called me back about that podcast interview after they canceled.
Wait a second, it's wild, but it's great in that it reveals who the good people are that aren't afraid what people think and have the best intentions.