Flagrant - Andrew Schulz & Akaash Singh - Mentalist Oz Pearlman Reads Minds and Breaks Flagrant

June 11, 2025 - Flagrant - Andrew Schulz & Akaash Singh

02:19:47

Mentalist Oz Pearlman Reads Minds and Breaks Flagrant

# talkspace social engineering rex ryan alicia keys barnes and noble black rifle coffee blue chew cold reading hypnosis methods joe budden joe burrow mark akash mentalism techniques morgan and morgan oz pearlman psychological manipulation read your mind

Oz Pearlman deconstructs his mentalism on the Flagrant podcast, revealing that his "mind-reading" feats rely on cold reading, psychological manipulation, and false memory creation rather than supernatural powers. He details specific tricks, including a viral performance for Joe Burrow involving a $275 million contract and an Amsterdam card trick where a four of hearts appeared to shrink. Pearlman emphasizes that his methodology involves observing micro-expressions, controlling pacing, and using open-ended questions to guide interactions, arguing that these engineered effects mimic telepathy without requiring actual psychic ability. Ultimately, the episode reframes mentalism as a sophisticated social engineering skill applicable to sales and negotiation, challenging listeners to distinguish between genuine intuition and practiced deception. [Automatically generated summary]
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Guessing People and Show and Tell 00:14:21
	Let's make it f ⁇ ing rainy here.
	How's that sound?
	Hold up.
	I want to show you one thing.
	Are you ready for this?
	How though?
	Hold on.
	I want to see something.
	You could have picked anything.
	You picked any three letters.
	For L, G, R, you're here.
	Everything.
	Here, the done, has brought us to this moment.
	That is the craziest shit I ever seen in my life.
	Welcome to the show.
	Miles, you want to produce or tag or not?
	Okay.
	Today we are joined by Hoes the Mentalists is in the Dobe.
	Flagrants.
	Yes, finally.
	Flags conspicuously offensive.
	Is that not?
	That's the difference.
	It's the physician.
	Eight-letter word, flagrant.
	Looked it up.
	Wow.
	Yeah, we didn't know that.
	Maybe we understand why people think we are that.
	Yeah.
	I think we're spot on.
	What is conspicuous, man?
	I don't know.
	Dude, I'm so stoked that you're here.
	This is a long time coming.
	Obviously, you broke the internet by guessing Joe's ATM pen.
	Yeah.
	We were joking around about like how many things Joe does believe that are conspiratorial.
	And he was looking at you.
	He was like, there's no fucking way that this is real.
	He was less skeptical of Bob Lazar saying he was reverse engineering alien technology than me dumpster diving.
	I went like, where are you getting?
	I went to dinner with him and Bob.
	Did you?
	Yeah, before that episode.
	That was wild.
	You brought me in.
	I would have told you if he was like, that's what I was going to say.
	I was like, we got to get to, if you are able, if we're subscribing to the mentalism, you should really know what's going on in the world, what's going to happen.
	So it's not a supernatural power.
	People come up to it.
	You can't believe how many people wrote to me and they're like, what's my Bitcoin password?
	I'm like, bro, if I knew that, you wouldn't have your Bitcoin right now.
	But I assess people.
	This is a magician's tricks, but done without the props.
	I brought some fun stuff.
	I brought some show and tell, baby.
	I brought some cards.
	Okay, good.
	I want to get into it right away.
	I'm covering Christmas.
	You just got into magician territory with the props now.
	Yeah.
	Well, you know, I want to do something fun, but I want to show you the difference between magic and mentalism because I started as a magician.
	Yes.
	Most mentalists start as magicians.
	That's kind of the, you got to crawl before you can walk, before you can run.
	And so a lot of the same tactics, foundational skills come from magic because you learn how to fool people.
	You learn how people think.
	It's the same way.
	My favorite art form by far, stand-up comedy.
	Respect.
	Forget magic and mentalism.
	I watch comedians.
	Really?
	Oh, my God.
	Are we fooling and tricking?
	Should I fluff this guy?
	I've seen life like five or six times.
	Thank you, bro.
	And a fanboy here.
	He does his research.
	But I mean, that's the real mark is how do you take a subject that's not funny and make it funny?
	And the same thing applies to mentalism is I will know not only what you think, but I know how you think.
	And are you pushing us?
	That's the way I'm doing it.
	But are you pushing us in a direction to think certain things?
	Well, let's watch.
	When I walked in here, full transparency, people watch us, they always go, he set this up.
	He told you.
	He whispered to Alex, do this or do that.
	I tell you what, I walked in here and we were just about to go on air and I said, if you could think of the number one person you would want to interview, right?
	You didn't write this.
	You didn't say this.
	You didn't nothing.
	You thought of someone in your head.
	And I asked you, would they know who you thought of?
	And what was your answer to that?
	Yes.
	Right?
	That's what they said.
	Jeffree Star.
	Do you think it would be an obvious choice for you, the number one?
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	Let me ask you, don't say it, because I'm probably not going to guess it because it's that obvious.
	The internet knows.
	What do you think is the first letter of the name of the person he's thinking of?
	H.
	Well, it depends how you spell the person's name.
	J would be the first letter.
	Is that right?
	Yeah.
	So who did you go with?
	Jay-Z.
	Jay-Z.
	Okay.
	Number one.
	H was Hove is what I was going to say.
	Jay-Z.
	There we go.
	There you go.
	So that was number one.
	And they all know that.
	Yes.
	So right away, that's easy.
	Like if I did that, nobody cares.
	So if I say to you, jump down to who would be number two on the list.
	Now your brain starts to go, hmm, I did Jay-Z goaded.
	Who do we go to next?
	Now, I think right away his body language didn't change.
	I might have gone to a female at that point.
	Yes.
	But my man went to another guy.
	Is it another guy?
	It is.
	Yeah.
	I would have been more excited.
	Look at this.
	Mark thinking of females the whole time.
	I got one dude.
	That was the name of who's number two on the list.
	Who was number two on the list?
	Yo, get a cam on Brandon.
	Just get some light shining on Brandon.
	God, number two on the list, Obama.
	Obama.
	Yeah, I couldn't.
	Now I'm seeing a thread.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Now you jump from, okay, he, right?
	What thread are you seeing?
	I'm saying a thread.
	I don't see Colorado.
	Have you met Obama?
	No.
	Dude, overdelivered.
	You met Obama?
	No, no.
	Oh, man.
	Should I tell the Obama story?
	Yeah.
	Obama was on.
	I did an event, this exclusive sports event, whatever.
	He was on before me.
	I made Buddy Buddy with Secret Service in the afternoon when they did the sound check.
	Yeah.
	Read one of the dudes' minds, told him his security pin code.
	He was not having it, but he liked me.
	I'm like, get me into Obama list.
	And this is my book.
	And then I go later that night, they don't know if we're going to have an Obama meet and greet.
	He speaks before me.
	Ken Burns interviews him.
	No cameras, very off the record.
	And then he does an impromptu meet and greet.
	And I'm five foot nothing, like slightly above average for a Jew.
	And I keep trying to get into this, but it's all sports people.
	So I'm not, you know, he, right when he goes to shake one hand, you don't know if he's going right or left.
	I'm trying to watch mentalist skills.
	After about 15 people, he turns to me.
	And this is, it's my moment.
	And I know exactly what I'm going to say to him.
	I've been thinking about this for two months.
	What?
	Ready for this?
	What would you say if somebody shook your hand and go, Thank you so much for the gift?
	What would you say to that?
	What gifts?
	Boom.
	What gift?
	That's exactly what he said to me, human psychology.
	And I go, President Obama, you just went on and I'm on stage in 10 minutes.
	So I forever get to tell people that President Obama opened for me.
	Loved it.
	I was waiting for him to say, What are you performing?
	And that's when he goes, Oh, I saw you on hard knocks and I'm losing my mind.
	He's like, You and Aaron Rodgers, like fanboyed over me.
	My wife's by me.
	I'm like, Are you getting this?
	Are you getting this?
	And so he was awesome, man.
	I read his mind.
	It's kind of full circle.
	What was he thinking about?
	He was thinking about a buddy of his in Chicago, and I told him his name and I told him where they met.
	And he, there's a, there's, there's literally.
	I can tell you.
	Illuminati, Illuminati.
	He brings it in, hugs it out.
	It was a great, great moment.
	That's all.
	Number two is Obama.
	Yeah, yeah.
	This becomes impossible because how could I know something he didn't even know?
	Right?
	Yeah.
	Gold metal, silver metal.
	Mark is so excited right now.
	I am you right now.
	I put you on the spot.
	Yeah.
	Because I saw you wearing Jay-Z.
	When I asked you about the number two.
	Mark's waiting for Jay-Z.
	He's watching.
	I love magic.
	He hasn't done any magic yet.
	Nothing's just fucking up.
	Mark sucks.
	I'm sorry.
	He's got 99 problems, and Mark is all could you tell Mark grew up in a big family and didn't get a lot of attention?
	They were both alive.
	They were both alive.
	Jay-Z, that's when you switched.
	And when I said to you just now, think of your third person.
	I saw you look up and you struggled.
	Swear to God, before I arrived here today at this studio, you did not know what I was going to do.
	There is nothing staged, nothing set up.
	Swear to God.
	Is that true?
	Swear to God?
	You did not know I did this question.
	Close your eyes.
	Oh my God.
	Folks, you asked me, how do I do it?
	And I explained to you.
	You know how people think.
	I can figure out what they think.
	And I saw a pattern.
	I saw a trick.
	This is some Chat GPT, right?
	Chat GPT tells you the next word in a phrase.
	Open your eyes.
	Anyone sitting here that's ever lived, dead or alive, they're sitting next to you.
	Jay-Z's got that seat.
	Obama's got this seat.
	You interviewed them both.
	Last person who popped your hair.
	Tell us, what's their name?
	Martin Luther King.
	Careful, Brandon.
	Brandon's family is from IET.
	He's Haitian.
	So he believes this.
	He believes this.
	Voodoo is real.
	Yeah, yeah.
	What the fuck?
	Get the fuck out of here.
	That's crazy.
	Okay.
	That's nuts.
	All right.
	Keep going.
	Keep going.
	At what point did you figure it out?
	Did you figure it out when you were standing up or just now?
	I'm just curious.
	I'm not like.
	Oh, no, no.
	Just now.
	Okay.
	My brain just, I'm sorry.
	I'm like trying to find how you led him down that path.
	Yeah, is it okay if we ask you about effects?
	Okay, this is what I'm thinking about right now at this time.
	I'm like, I just want you to do this and I want to fully just indulge in it and not think about the way that you did it.
	And then there's this other part of me that's like, I want to know.
	I want to know.
	And I have ideas about how maybe you've like used certain words to prime him in a certain direction and then crazy in the back of his fucking head.
	I don't know if you rolled your eyes like I was being an idiot or like you've heard this a million times.
	Never heard it.
	Never heard it.
	No, but I mean, I smell it.
	You hug the line of the best kind of engagement, which is you're both angry and happy at the same time.
	I just want to indulge because I just wanted to have the most fun, but there is this part of me that goes, oh, I see how he pushed him in that direction.
	Well, it's funny, it's jazz.
	So it's, again, I paraphrase with comedy because comedy is so good.
	You're reacting to the symbols that you have in front of you.
	Yeah, everything's happening in real time.
	And there's different people.
	Listen, there's a handful of us that do this stuff.
	That's the funny thing.
	You asked me magicians, tons of magicians.
	You said dead or alive multiple times.
	Right.
	Right.
	And then you switch the order.
	Right.
	And I'm wondering if you're if you're priming him to give a dead person and you that that's just where my brain was going.
	I also, he, you know, he's got him on his arm.
	That's what I thought.
	I was like, Mamie, he just hedged on a tattoo.
	I only go to black guys with tattoos on people.
	This is a very specific sticking to football teams primarily.
	Would this be a skill?
	Where are your tattoos?
	Nothing, nothing?
	All right.
	Nothing.
	Not yet.
	Would this be a skill?
	You just told you, Mark.
	You don't even know what I just planted on him.
	Microchip embedded.
	I got everything.
	Would you call this applied cold reading?
	There's a ton of cold reading mixed in, but here's the secret sauce.
	Okay, there's a lot of secret sauces, but I can tell you that mine is that there's so many methods going on at once that I will lead you in a maze.
	And when you get to this one and you're really, here's the cheese and you got right there, you can smell it.
	Boom, you hit a wall and you have to go all the way around.
	Because I typically, like in a day like today, there will be eight, nine, 10 different methods that I do the same thing.
	So that even my peers, even the people who do what I do, again, they don't know.
	They do not know.
	There's, I did for Howard Stern something that I assure you, nobody in my field can understand how I did it because he will go to his grave.
	This is one thing of guessing a person.
	He will go to his grave saying, I never shared that with anybody.
	I never wrote it.
	I never put it any, I didn't, I didn't have it in my phone.
	I didn't whisper.
	My wife didn't even know this.
	Somebody died and then told me it before they died.
	He did a bit with Valerie Harper.
	Do you know about this?
	Valerie Harper was a big sitcom star in the 70s and 80s.
	She was Rhoda.
	And so she had terminal cancer.
	She told him a word because they wanted to check the Houdini test.
	You know, the Houdini test words.
	Which is Houdini told his wife before he died.
	If psychics are a real thing and it's not BS, I'm going to tell you a word.
	Never write it down, ever.
	Never write it because that's what psych is.
	You write it, maybe we could see it, right?
	You whisper it, somebody could hear it.
	Yeah.
	Right?
	You put it on your phone.
	Nothing.
	I want nothing.
	I want it to stay in my mind forever.
	And if somebody can guess it, then that means you told it to them from past from out of the grave.
	And so I told Howard, he's had psychics on every year for a decade trying to guess this work.
	No one's ever gotten it.
	Holy shit.
	And so we went out and I told him flat out.
	I go, Howard, I'm not a psychic.
	This is not, there's no, there's nobody telling me from the dead.
	Yeah.
	I'm going to figure it out.
	I'm going to figure it out the same way somebody looks at Wheel of Fortune, sees all the letters, and starts to piece together that puzzle.
	Only I do Wheel of Fortune without Vanna White.
	You see what I'm saying?
	I just go right to it.
	So here's what it's good.
	I figured out how many letters it was.
	And then I did.
	He goes, Did you know that you were going to get it right before?
	I'm like, are you kidding me?
	I've been driving my wife crazy the last month.
	She's like, what if you do if you get it wrong?
	I'm like, that's the next swings, baby.
	So has there ever been a situation where you're in a high-stakes moment and it didn't go well?
	Dude, that was as high stakes as it gets.
	Like, there was no.
	But that went well.
	Oh, it went great.
	Yeah.
	So has there ever been a situation where, okay, this is a high-stakes moment.
	It's not going the way you want.
	Do you plan another thing in the event?
	Got it.
	So you have fail-save, fail-save, fail-safe.
	Big time.
	Like I did, Rogan.
	This is going to air after Rogan.
	So, Rogan, I had so many things going in there, but I don't want to, I love Joe.
	Yeah.
	That's the lion's den.
	He goes, he is skeptical.
	Yep.
	He is, there was, I don't want to call it combative, but when I walked in the door, there was no jokey humor.
	It was not like, what's up?
	This wasn't like here.
	It was, he was serious.
	Yeah.
	And he did not know I was going to guess his pin code on air.
	That was unbelievable.
	There was no mention of a pin code before that moment to him.
	And so he, he's, he doesn't, he thinks that I somehow stole his identity.
	Yeah.
	And everyone thinks I'm a massad agent.
	So that was quite funny.
	Yeah.
	I mean, you did guess the bank code.
	I don't know if you're leaning into a stereotype tail here, but if you know somebody at the bank, that might be an easy thing to do.
	That is like your go-to thing now that I hate Natalie mentioned it.
	It's always banker lady.
	I asked him, I asked him, I was like, how do you pronounce your first name?
	He's like, it's O's, like, owes you money.
	Also, guys, show dates.
	I'm not doing as many dates this summer, but we got a lot coming in the fall and winter.
	But next week, one of the best comedy clubs in the country, Wise Guys, June 19th through the 21st.
	I'm there.
	Get your tickets at akashing.com.
	Also, July in Oklahoma, probably going to have to get moved.
	I think you might have gotten an email already.
	I'm going to be in August.
	I'm going to be in Kansas City and Ohio.
	Check all these dates out and more at akashing.com.
	Now let's get back to the show.
	What's up, guys?
	Schultz isn't on the road.
	Akash is taking the summer off.
	What's the next best thing?
	A bunch of comics.
	And then me.
	So come see me in Poughkeepsie, Portland.
Fourth Grade Soccer Stories 00:09:57
	We're not around that thing.
	Fort Worth, Austin, Texas, and many more dates.
	I also am doing a show at Mary Lou in New York City at the last week of every single month.
	I would love to see you guys there.
	Mary Lou.
	An amazing show.
	And everyone on the tour so far has been amazing.
	Raleigh, Indianapolis, you guys are the best.
	Your name is Mary Lou.
	The shows keep on coming.
	He's getting for free if you suck his dick.
	The shows keep on coming.
	So I'll see you guys there.
	I love you.
	Speaking of coming.
	So much.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	Next.
	Next.
	Like, I want to ask you so many fucking questions, but I also know that you have other things set up.
	So this is a weird interview where it's like you're the one that's really at the wheel here.
	Yeah.
	Do you feel that every time you're in one of these positions?
	I take charge when I want to.
	Thank you.
	Yeah, that was hot.
	Also insulting, but I'm willing to indulge in it.
	All right.
	How about this?
	Spontaneous.
	Think of your best friend.
	Oh, you're about to hurt somebody's feelings right now.
	Oh, my God.
	You're about to hurt somebody's feelings.
	This is great.
	You see him?
	He's like, hello.
	Okay, if I told you right now, think of your best friend.
	Okay.
	Chat GPT, man.
	We just go in there.
	What if we take, pronounce, is it Gagnon?
	Yeah.
	I say it.
	I say Gagnon just because we're in America.
	But Gagnon.
	Gagnon.
	Gagnon.
	Do you speak French?
	No.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	Gagnon.
	Okay, so Gagnon.
	Didn't expect you to say it that way.
	That sounded weird.
	So if we were to analyze, I said, right now, think of your best friend.
	First off, he cycled because he was debating.
	He looked at you, but then he was like, It's more business.
	It's the high watermark.
	He's getting you to laugh.
	I do.
	I'm a huge foot.
	I would do that.
	And I always go to the devil's advocate, the people watching this who are going to be like, dude, he knew who you were.
	Me pretending I don't know your name.
	All this is an act.
	It's all fake.
	I could have looked everything up about you.
	I could have processed all of his Instagram photos.
	Yep.
	Statistical analysis.
	Who's he tagged the most?
	Where has he been?
	He's like, I was thinking of him, but we go further deeper.
	How about this?
	Let's go back in time.
	Did you play sports as a kid?
	Yes.
	What was your top sport?
	Soccer.
	Your soccer?
	Yeah.
	Until what age?
	So it was like 18.
	Oh, so you're like a legit soccer player.
	I played for a while.
	He's a hater.
	He's a hater.
	Mark was a very good soccer player.
	Did when he was in high school.
	Based on his hair and detection.
	Double X in media.
	Back up, Mark.
	You go soccer.
	Yeah.
	Think of a player you played soccer with.
	Okay.
	Can I have a second?
	Sometimes I get too nervous.
	No, change it right now.
	See, that's what I want.
	I want nervous energy.
	I want spontaneous in the moment.
	Okay.
	I can't.
	Are you married?
	I am married.
	He's like, How did you know that?
	How did you know that?
	They'll take it off for you.
	Yes.
	Slid right off so easily.
	I'm thinking of the person.
	How long have you been married?
	Five years.
	You passed the test.
	All right.
	Let's keep going.
	Let's keep going.
	I'm going to see where this gets interesting.
	How long did you know your wife before you got married?
	About like six years.
	Okay.
	Took your time.
	No problem.
	Go back in time.
	Soccer.
	18 was too old.
	I want formative years.
	I'm going to put you on the spot.
	Close your eyes.
	Okay.
	I want you to go back in time and I want you to picture the face of the first girl you ever had a big crush on.
	A lot of tongue motion underneath the mouth.
	Have you seen that?
	Open your eyes.
	Yeah.
	Watch this.
	Without using your fingers, because I can see your fingers.
	People don't realize they do this in front of me.
	Count how many letters are in this person's name, your first crush.
	Count the number of letters to yourself.
	Don't say it.
	See, guess right now.
	That wasn't an instant name, right?
	If that name is three or four letters, you don't count.
	You know.
	Do you understand what that is?
	It's called a sight word for like first graders.
	You learn the word because you don't read it.
	You know what it looks like.
	If that name was like Alexandra, he'd be struggling.
	He'd be like, that was a middle-sized name.
	That name is 5'67 letters.
	Watch him.
	5'6'7.
	Look how he nodded when I said seven.
	He was trying to rush me along.
	Because I already said six.
	It's six letters long, isn't it?
	That's correct.
	Yes.
	Branded.
	Branded.
	Brandon's about to rhino charge on this.
	I like the Haitian energy in this room.
	Witchcraft.
	I don't believe it.
	Six letters.
	That wasn't that hard.
	That was, come on.
	That's not that hard.
	It's pretty.
	Kosh, the two A's in the middle.
	That's hard.
	I'm hard.
	Here.
	He's actually hard.
	That got weird.
	All right.
	Six letters.
	Before today, when was the last time?
	Before me asking you to think of this person, when was the last time she had even entered your mind?
	Be honest.
	Would it have been days, months, or years?
	Probably like a year and a half.
	Yeah.
	It doesn't match up with the six-year marriage, but okay, that's five-year marriage plus six years before that.
	You know how she lived in these days.
	All right, year and a half since he saw it this person before today when I asked him, think of the letters, mix them up, mix them up.
	Yeah.
	Grab one.
	Don't say it.
	Grab one.
	Okay.
	Like a scrabble tiles.
	I'm not even doing you some scrabble tiles later, but I want you to imagine you just grab one of these letters out right now, right now in your head.
	You got to open your eyes.
	Yes.
	Look at the word.
	And you didn't go to the end.
	You didn't do the last letter, did you?
	No.
	Didn't feel like it.
	It went like a back and forth, and you debated between two, and then you jumped to the later one.
	D. Are you thinking of a D?
	Don't say anything.
	He thought of the D and he switched the one right before it.
	Bam.
	Totally knew that.
	You freaking liar.
	I knew you did the D. About you another D. There's the thing.
	Everybody who's a podcast listener, I wrote it down.
	I've showed it to Alex, Akash, and Andrew.
	Is that correct?
	Hasn't thought of this person in a year and a half.
	What would you peg the percentages that I could have found this from social media somewhere?
	Is it like half a percent, little percent, just zero?
	There's no way you've ever posted this, ever, talked about this ever.
	Is that a fair assessment?
	Yeah, probably never talked about it.
	Maybe a follow, maybe a follow on Instagram.
	Okay, how many followers you got?
	85, 4,000 or something.
	Maybe that's not bad.
	Dinko 384,000.
	What's your name?
	The name is Jordan.
	Jordan is the name of his first project.
	Jordan is the name of his first project.
	Holy shit.
	Can we pull up the Instagram to just see?
	I gotta see what's going on, bro.
	It's mostly a dude's name, Jordan.
	Yeah, this is Jordan 4389.
	Not a good person.
	This is a girl.
	This is a girl.
	No, no, we agreed.
	You don't have to.
	Fuck, why do you seem unimpressed by that?
	Like, that was unbelievable.
	I think he's a little thrown off.
	He's a little rattled.
	He's unsettled.
	He's unsettled.
	You're going to be dealing with something at home?
	Is that the concern?
	What are you processing right now?
	Man, didn't mean to bring this up on.
	A fifth grade girl that I dated for two days.
	Fourth grade.
	Check later is exactly fourth grade.
	No fucking time.
	No.
	You almost got me.
	I was homeschooled until fifth grade.
	So it's like it's actually his sister for the record.
	How did you know that?
	Wait, why would you fourth grade?
	What would you think?
	I don't know.
	He's going to check later.
	It's going to be off air.
	He's going to be like, holy shit, you were right.
	It was fourth grade.
	Wait, why would it be fourth grade?
	I don't check later.
	He was homeschooled.
	He was in homeschool until fifth grade.
	Maybe she was in fourth grade.
	No, no, no.
	We were the same grade.
	We were the same grade.
	All right.
	I'm not liking it.
	Can't get every time.
	Woman, one year, it's age-appropriate.
	Shit, the fourth.
	Wow, yo, we got a.
	Oh, my goodness.
	Okay.
	All right.
	Do me now.
	Go.
	There's no interview.
	Nothing is more interesting than magic.
	Like, I could, okay, how long can you run?
	The interview.
	Can't you tell me?
	You took it.
	No, I know about it.
	I know about it, but there's nothing more interesting than what you're doing right now.
	So I can ask you about the ultra marathons.
	I looked up that you won the New Jersey Marathon four times.
	That's true.
	I thought that in the notes that it was like a typo.
	I thought it was run.
	And they're like, oh, it was supposed to be run, but it was what?
	No, you actually won it.
	Fourth.
	One.
	I won it.
	Yeah.
	Did they not allow the African?
	How did you beat them?
	Did you jersey?
	Just put a mind spell.
	There's no money in it.
	So there's no prize money.
	So they don't run it.
	Yeah, they only weekend warriors.
	Got it.
	I was still pretty fast back.
	They won two marathons in a week.
	Yeah.
	Would you not run them?
	I've heard crazy stories.
	I won two marathons back-to-back days.
	So I did the Hamptons Marathon on a Saturday and Yonkers Marathon on a Sunday.
	I won them both.
	Wow.
	Wow.
	Those are winnable.
	Those are winnable.
	Yeah.
	Those who could win back to you.
	There's an interesting dynamic change from the Hamptons to Yonkers.
	If you win like Nairobi, then maybe.
	Then for real.
	Yeah, but they wouldn't let a witch run it, though.
	Yeah, that's true.
	Yeah, but they wouldn't make it.
	Wouldn't make it there.
	Holy shit.
	Is there a peer that has done an effect to you that's that you're unable to explain?
	That's the best thing.
	That's the best feeling ever when somebody just rattles you and you go, oh my God, how did you do that?
	And the problem is, I go right into Andrew mode, which is I want to know how.
	Yes.
	Right.
	Because that's my default setting.
	But then I also want to be like, oh, enjoy this.
	Will they share with you?
	Is there like a code amongst you?
	Typically, yes.
	Also, in this kind of situation, here's the thing: there's people that write, or there's people that are creators, and there's performers, and there's very few both.
	There's so few in what I do because to be creative is one thing, but to actually execute.
	So, are there certain guys that can create the what do you call them?
	I don't want to break them by calling him tricks.
	Let's call them tricks.
	Okay, so there's certain people when somebody calls it a vaudevillion, like, do your skin, do your skit.
	This is what I'm doing.
	Do that skin again.
	I love your skin.
	We call them effects within the industry.
	Oh, within the colours.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	That's what he said.
Creative Tricks and Execution 00:14:00
	That's what he told Jordan in fifth grade.
	You know what I'm saying?
	This is going to be the effects.
	So, so there are guys that maybe come up with the effects, but they don't have the skills to actually execute them.
	I would say the skills is one way to put it, but a lot of them are just not performers.
	So, it's just, it's, it's, you know, SNL.
	How many, how many writers are there?
	I'm not saying they're not talented, but getting on creating muscle execution is the difficult part in this profession.
	And did you, were you always good at that, or is that a skill that you had to develop?
	I think it was skill developed.
	Like, I've been doing this as a teenager, but I did magic at restaurants when I was a kid.
	Yeah.
	And that was really what got me good.
	That's where the 10,000, 20,000 hours were put in because I got my first restaurant gig when I was 14.
	Do you remember where it was?
	100%.
	Where's the big part of my book?
	It's called Zia's.
	It's in Michigan.
	I walk there half a mile from my house, don't know how I had the confidence, good sales tactics, talked my way into this thing.
	Tuesday nights, that was my night.
	I did three hours to go take table to table.
	Dude, imagine you're at a restaurant, you've got a babysitter, the kids are at home, and some 14-year-old kid comes up to the table wanting to do card tricks.
	You're like, dude, get out of here.
	You can't.
	Okay, go on.
	Some people would, some people wouldn't, but some people, so you have to learn School of Hard Knocks how to win people over.
	Quick.
	Quick is the name of the game.
	That's exactly it.
	What is your body language like?
	What you iterate?
	When I turn this way, it's different than if I go head on.
	The same way that animals, when they go eye to eye, they feel imposing.
	So you're like looking over your shoulder almost.
	You're not giving them too much time.
	You have a time constraint.
	There's a million things that I learned how to approach a table and in less than 10 seconds, typically five seconds, answer every question that was in their mind that was unanswered, which is right when they see me, automatically they go, Who is this?
	And do I have to give this person money?
	Do I have cash?
	What are they doing here?
	Are they any good?
	Did the restaurant know they're here?
	All of those questions I try to answer in the least amount of words possible.
	Can you, can you give us that breakdown?
	I imagine you haven't done this in decades.
	So, like, what was your five-second title?
	What was your five-second?
	I'm going to break the table.
	They're having a big dinner.
	It's a family dinner.
	Somebody's just got engaged.
	There's a celebration.
	You're going to interrupt it.
	How do you stop them size?
	First off, you find the right moment.
	So if people are like, husband and wife is crying and they're like having a you're in there.
	So I hear you've been cheating on her.
	I've done something amazing as well.
	Can you make this bitch disappear?
	Keep that in his pants.
	I'm like, I can only make things up here, not disappear.
	So you walk up, and the first thing I say is, you guys are in luck.
	Like right away, that's a great way.
	Add an angle.
	You guys are in luck.
	The owner brought me in as a special treat to you tonight, but I only have two minutes.
	So it's like right away.
	This is great.
	You only have two minutes.
	I only have two minutes.
	You're leaving.
	I'm leaving.
	They're getting something.
	They don't know what they're getting.
	So curiosity.
	The owner has me here as a treat immediately takes away the first thing, which to me is like, yo, guys coming up to me.
	Do I have to have some cash right now?
	Awkwardness.
	I'm taking away that.
	I'm taking away all of the resistance.
	If you say no, you're being disrespectful to the person that gave you as the gift.
	Of course, the owner brought me in special.
	If you clean windshields on the street, you should be paying attention to this.
	Right now, if you sell anything, if you're cleaning windshields, you're moving up.
	But that's literally what I've done: sales training, is understand how to think like a mentalist because most of what I do is selling an item, which is amazement, right?
	That's what I sell.
	You sell laughter.
	I sell amazement.
	I sell wonder moments that are memorable that you go, oh, how did he know that?
	Right.
	And that feeling you had at that moment when you felt it.
	But everyone knows it's not real.
	And I know it's not real.
	It's not, I'm not really reading your mind.
	I've explained that through and through.
	I've learned how people think.
	The core skills of what I do, if you can distill them from the performance, because guessing Martin Luther King or guessing a name is not effective in your life.
	But if you have the same skills to read people and know exactly, like I said, what they're thinking, how do you improve your sales?
	Bye.
	How is that not reading their mind, though?
	Like, what is the difference?
	Was that reading minds by when I walk up, know what they're going to think in that moment?
	Like, that's what a great salesperson does.
	I guess, but I would say that those things are the same in a lot of ways.
	Like, even if you push them down a direction to think a certain thing, like, you are still at the end of the day, you have to figure out Jordan.
	Right.
	And that is, I would say, reading his mind to a certain extent.
	Well, absolutely.
	Well, again, I got the letter because you did.
	What was the letter you thought of?
	Which letter did you go with?
	When you said pick the letter.
	So I was thinking A.
	Yeah.
	So he did.
	I told you, switched the one before.
	I said, I knew it.
	So, because I had told him, don't do a vowel.
	And so he did.
	He said, oh, I'm going to screw them over and do a vowel instead.
	Because I mentioned the scrabble tiles.
	I said there'd be no vowels.
	And so he went to the A, and I said, I knew that he would do the D, and then he jumped over.
	I can show you how I put the whole thing together.
	Right.
	But that's the interesting part.
	Okay, so you're 14 years old.
	You, uh, do you ever in your life?
	I remember reading somewhere that you, you, you broke your fear of rejection at a young age.
	Was there ever a time in your life?
	I had to, because man, people just shot you down at a restaurant.
	And if you go to five tables in a row where they get out of here, they're like, oh, dude, I don't, I don't have time for this, like dismissive, rude.
	People that don't have thick skin, that's done.
	So what did you do with dismissive rude?
	So I think what I learned, I had some sort of weird schizophrenic break in my mind, which I've used for the rest of my life that's saved me rejection.
	Is I silo.
	I literally created two people.
	The same way you have an agent, your agent negotiates your deals.
	Yeah.
	They do bad cop.
	You're like, I don't do this gig.
	You tell them that, right?
	You don't want to get on the phone.
	You're Andrew.
	You're the nice guy.
	So if you can create a disconnect that you just somehow sliced in my brain where I decided they aren't insulting me.
	They don't know me.
	They're insulting the circle.
	They're insulting.
	Nope.
	I had like in my mind, there's O's the entertainer.
	There's O's Pearlman.
	These are two different people.
	You know, it's like a Sia and like that.
	It's like the Daft Punk guy.
	One's got the helmet, one takes it off, he takes his kids to school.
	Nobody knows who he is.
	Yeah, I just somehow took the sting away because I realized this is not going to sit well.
	Because after two tables reject me, I go to the next table with negative energy.
	Right.
	And they can feel it.
	They can see it.
	I'm also rude and mean, and I got to take that away.
	So I had to figure out a way for my own self-preservation to be like, okay, I'm going to put it all on me.
	They had a bad night.
	They might have just been home with their kids.
	Their kid might have puked.
	I don't know.
	I had like some sort of maturity level where I'm like, they have issues.
	It's not my fault.
	So I'm going to let that go.
	They don't know the real me.
	This didn't hurt at all.
	And I think that's good.
	I, you know, I learned it from buddies who were good with girls.
	Yeah.
	Who just had numbers game where I look at them and I'm like, I couldn't do this in my real life.
	She rejects me.
	She's like, you got to be kidding right now.
	I'm like, oh, because there was no O was the entertainer.
	She didn't want me.
	Yeah.
	But when I was performing, I could separate myself.
	And so I had to learn.
	And I think it's useful in life.
	Anything you're doing, you don't realize it.
	You're selling.
	So everyone's selling something.
	What is your best opener now?
	You're walking up to a complete stranger in the street.
	What is your best go-to opener?
	For a professional thing or for what reason?
	Yeah, it could be anything.
	You want to stop that person in the street because you want to deliver a trick, you want to talk to them.
	But like, what is the one sentence in your life right now that if you need somebody's attention for 15 seconds uninterrupted that you open with?
	Well, if it's for me performing, like I have a very different thing than if it's, I just need to talk to somebody.
	But I also affect the situation.
	What if it's you just want to talk to somebody?
	If I want to talk to somebody, yeah, you want to talk to Obama, you came up to him, you had a line.
	He was asking about your sales technique.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Oh, so right away you create a dopamine hit, right?
	So people want excitement.
	People like when you know why your phone's so addictive because whenever it buzzes, you don't know what's at the end of that.
	It's the lottery.
	You might just want lottery.
	Who just texted me?
	I got to see it.
	Who just liked my photo?
	Who just commented?
	Who just followed me?
	Right?
	Like, you don't know the limitless opportunities.
	So you never want to pigeonhole yourself.
	So I like to do things that are hanging threads.
	If I meet somebody, I've done this a million times, meet somebody super famous and we've had a real connection.
	And in that moment, I want to set us up as equals, power dynamic.
	Where I don't want to be like, oh, let me get the selfie, let me do this.
	I'm like, what do we do, man?
	How do we keep in touch?
	I like that phrase.
	Oh, because it puts the ball in their court.
	It puts the ball in their court, but it assesses where we are versus if I have to ask you, hey, can I get your number?
	Maybe they're going to say no.
	I've also given you a no question.
	Always have questions that can be continued.
	The best lines are ones that don't have a hard answer.
	They allow people to open up and that they're questions people haven't been asked before.
	Like you've been asked the same 20 questions about comedy your whole life.
	Sure.
	And I could go down the list the same as me.
	How'd you get in this?
	Did someone in your family do?
	There's like a whole list because we have unique professions.
	Right.
	Right.
	You never ask an insurance salesman, was your dad insured too?
	I don't give a shit.
	Yeah.
	No offense if you're in insurance sales.
	They book me a lot.
	I love insurance.
	But I'm saying that in that situation, if you could say, if you could go back in time to when you were seven years old, what would you tell yourself now?
	That's, wow, I never thought of that, right?
	Like a question that's fascinating.
	So give me an example of that.
	Like a fascinating question.
	You're at a grocery store.
	There's somebody.
	You can do it based on reading the person.
	You're asking me, like, how would I play Little League for when I'm in MLB?
	Like, I would know, I know 20 things about that person.
	What if you don't?
	What if it, oh, you're saying that you're already reading them by observing them?
	And then, based on what you're getting from them, you'll formulate the question that will.
	Well, it's like when I'm negotiating real estate and like my transactions, be like, oh, what if he won't take lower?
	I'm like, I know he'll take lower.
	So it's a useful skill in life outside of that.
	Like, do people use it in interrogations?
	Does anybody have ever done anything like that?
	I've been offered considerable money time and again by like law firms, various firms, to can you do this for us as a skill that's outside of the guise of entertainment.
	Why don't you do it?
	So I haven't done it yet, and I'm going to tell you why.
	There's two reasons.
	One is it's hard for me to quantify the number of the tactical advantage I would give you.
	I don't want to, right now, I know that if I go do a show, I know how well I'm going to do.
	Like I know that I can deliver.
	I never want to be a guy who doesn't exceed and vastly exceed expectations.
	So if I do that, I'm going to do something where you do a deal and you go, oh my God, this guy just knocked out of the park for me.
	And that's going to be word of mouth.
	Also, this is doing very well right now.
	So I'm not expanding beyond the books coming out, but like I don't, I'll keynote speak.
	But picking juries is not what I like decided would be my life's mission.
	But do you think some successful lawyers are using some of these school skills?
	I'd be very pleased if anyone's using it.
	For sure they are.
	I've spoken to them.
	Oh, really?
	Yeah.
	So are they aware that they're doing it?
	Have they studied it like you?
	Or is it just part of their communication technique that they've developed throughout their life and it is successful?
	I think there's a Venn diagram overlap because people have noted, like when I did the Rogan, that I'm speaking fast and I'm doing stuff because I can control based on my pacing.
	See how we slowed down?
	See where you moved?
	Yeah.
	What happens in the moment?
	So there's not everybody is comfortable at a high speed.
	And when they're uncomfortable, you have way more control of the interaction.
	Bringing the speed to a level of their comfort, you lose control of the interaction potentially.
	They can also intercept.
	So when people want to speak what they do, I can normally speak at this pace.
	But when I'm going fast and I'm doing something performance-wise, I know where I'm going to guide you.
	The speed, my voice is going to be.
	And they're thinking well.
	They're thinking less.
	I'm moving your mind in the direction I want based on the speed, the words, what I'm doing.
	And I'm watching your reactions to know when you're going to where I want.
	All right.
	At what age do you start developing these ancillary tools to make the art to take the art to the next level?
	I think I started.
	So I started doing mentalism more and more in like the, I hated mentalism when I was a kid.
	Why?
	Boring.
	Because I wanted tricks.
	The fun thing about magic is you can buy a trick, you can practice it, and it works.
	And then you get that reaction.
	I did it as a kid.
	It's so fun.
	I bought that.
	There was like some magic.
	It was like a VHS tape.
	They would send you to break down all the tricks.
	It was fucking incredible.
	Like I'd write somebody's name, would write on a coin, and it would end up being in like a piece of bread at the table.
	And they're like, how the fuck did you do it?
	And like learning how it happens, it's kind of almost boring for the magician.
	So boring.
	Because it's this one little sleight of hand move and then all this other fake.
	Once you find out how a magic trick is done, you're so disappointed.
	Yeah, it's almost like we should never divulge that because the people that get to witness the magic lose their joy and want to.
	You want to take away the magic.
	Yeah, I feel shame because it's like, how did I get tricked by something so simple?
	Yes, yes.
	He's just using the bathroom or not doing or setting up any trick.
	It's a number one.
	It's not a two-two.
	Everybody knew that.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	Can we do another thing?
	Is ouch, no?
	Yes.
	Is this does it make it hard for a like human connection?
	Because you can pretty much read people and tell if they're lying to you or trying to mislead you.
	Or can you?
	So, no, people definitely can.
	Like, there's no, it's not a problem is it's the reason you can't just do this in every life, like, because people are like, well, why don't you take over the world, right?
	Why is this not a superpower?
	Because it's done under a certain guise.
	So people allow themselves the same way a hypnotist, when a hypnotist hypnotizes you, you can't be hypnotized against your will.
	You can't submit to it alone.
	You have to, there has to be some level of suggestibility.
	When a hypnotist does a show in a stage setting, they do what's known as compliance testing.
	Everyone in the room put your hands together.
	They have different ways to see who is acquiescing.
	And it doesn't mean that they're faking it.
	It's really important you understand.
	It's not faking.
	It's suggestibility is not faking.
	When those people do those things, like you see some dude start walking in high heels, fucking like a chicken, and then a post-hypnotic suggestion, they forgot it.
	That's real.
	There's no question, but they're allowing that.
	And so hypnosis is real.
	Because I don't think it's a hard failure.
	That's not true.
	Like, I thought that they've calculated this, and then certain people are more hypnotizable than others.
	Right.
	That's that couldn't be more true.
	Okay.
	And that's what you're talking about: suggestibility and compliance testing.
	Like some people really comply and they go, okay, you get up here.
	Get up here on stage.
	So to answer your question, those people can't just hypnotize you.
	You think like, oh, well, if you could do that, why can't you just hypnotize this guy to go kill this guy?
	Like, give me your money.
	Like, you can't do it in your day-to-day life because people won't acquiesce to all the demands.
	So, right now, if I'm in a setting and let's just make it simple, everyone said to me, why don't you just go to poker and just like win poker every single time?
	Because if somebody has cards, I now know there's 52 cards.
	There's all different combinations.
	I have to watch you and say, look at those cards, look at me, think hearts, think diamonds.
	Like, they're not going to do all that.
	I can't.
	Do you understand?
	I have to guide them through.
	If I claim to be psychic, then I'd be full of shit.
	I'm like, yeah, why can't you just guess?
	But I'm telling you, literally, I'm not psychic.
	I have a set of procedures that I'm putting you through to get to what the answer is.
	And that's probably why specific sales, this is a huge advantage because you are one-on-one with them.
	And it requires some control.
Insurance Industry Secrets 00:02:55
	Yeah.
	I think it requires a tremendous amount of control.
	In a poker game, you can't control what they do.
	No, and it's a grind.
	And like, even if I've had some success when I'm one-on-one with certain people playing poker, but it's just like you have to have such patience to just go through it and go through it.
	And it's just not in my nature.
	Super ADD of like, I don't want to sit there and play poker for eight hours.
	What's up, you noodle dicks?
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	All right, guys, let's take a break for a second.
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Morgan Morgan Takes on Big Corps 00:15:10
	Now let's get back to the show.
	Hold on.
	You wanted to do something fun.
	Yeah.
	I walked in here.
	Let's explain what happened.
	I got in here.
	I was soaking wet.
	Yep.
	Kash was wet too.
	And I asked you, and we have one of the bookers, Ari, who came in here who does not believe any of this crap, who said, like, there's just no way.
	And I said, do you have books here?
	Is that what was assessed?
	I asked, were you here with this question?
	I wasn't, but this is a whole thing.
	And so I told them to go get any books.
	I said, ideally, get two or three books that these are, forgetting my books.
	I don't even think they're your books.
	They went and picked them up and they brought them in.
	It was not, Dove, who it was another young woman with.
	Don't let him change books right now, Tanya.
	Tanya, where are the books that were brought in?
	These are not my books.
	It's like, I don't know whose books these are.
	Do you guys even know?
	Were these given to you by someone on the show?
	I don't know who they are.
	Okay, yeah.
	Those are our books.
	Oh, super plug right here.
	Okay, yeah.
	We have our CIA handler, Andrew Bustamante.
	Yo, he was awesome.
	Yeah, yeah, he's great.
	And he has a book coming out.
	So that's shout out.
	This sounds like a big plug.
	It's not a big plug.
	And then we also have a Roar in Harlem based on True Events.
	And why?
	Wingsworth producers here and explain that I have never set eyes upon these.
	Even Roar in Harlem?
	What's that?
	I don't think this is even out yet.
	So I don't know if there's a way you could.
	You know what?
	That's even better.
	Give that to anyone you want right now.
	Hand that to somebody.
	Or you can take it.
	I will take it.
	I would like to be part of this magic.
	Perfect.
	Take that book.
	And is it okay if I take that one for the first time?
	Do you want it?
	Is that okay?
	Yeah.
	Do whatever you want.
	All right.
	Here's what I'm going to do.
	Let's get teamwork.
	Teamwork makes a dream work.
	I'm going to hold this up.
	Okay.
	And is there, wait, before I don't want to look at it, are there pictures on any of the pages?
	If so, I just don't like if it's, is there a lot of pictures?
	There's no one picture.
	But there's not like a ton of pictures.
	Is that right?
	So here's what I'm going to do.
	I'm going to flip through this book like this.
	Whenever you want, Mark, you're going to say stop.
	Right at that moment, stop me.
	If I go one page past, you let me know.
	Me and Akash, hard eye contact.
	Look at those beautiful eyes.
	This guy either is freezing or angry the whole show.
	No, no.
	All right.
	I'm looking over at you.
	Make sure I'm going nice and slow, like steady, whatever I want.
	And I'm going to go through whenever you want.
	Is it right there?
	I want you to take a look at the first word or two on the page.
	Is there any way in the world that I influence where he would stop?
	No, which page?
	Because there's two pages.
	I don't care.
	Did you look at something?
	Yes.
	Perfect.
	Did you each look at a word?
	Yeah.
	I wonder.
	Okay, grab it.
	I said first word or two because if you start reading, then you start looking for words you like.
	I want this to be random.
	If I was going to tell you to pick a word you like, I say pick any page.
	You were quick on it.
	Did you do the first word?
	Correct.
	Did you also do the first word?
	Yes.
	Interest, because I offered it to you.
	I wonder what that means.
	They both like the word.
	Probably means it's not and the, he, she, if.
	Take this.
	I'm going to go nice and slow.
	Bring your book close to you.
	As I'm going, yell out, stop.
	Stop.
	Tell us what page we're on, either side, either direction you want.
	Tell us which page.
	355.
	Go to 355.
	Go to 355.
	Tell me when you're there.
	More pages.
	We don't have 355.
	Do it again.
	Do it again.
	Say stop.
	Stop.
	Okay.
	Tell us what page?
	138.
	Open it up.
	Do you have that much?
	How short is this guy's book?
	Yes, we have.
	Yes, we do.
	Bring it close to you.
	Look at the first word on the page.
	If it's and, she, he, the, if.
	If it's any of those five words, we do a different one.
	Do you look at the first word?
	Yep.
	Close it.
	Okay.
	Now, Andrew's going through his head thinking, how?
	How could this be, right?
	I mean, sure.
	Just.
	I want you each to do this.
	Imagine, is your word something you could draw?
	Don't say anything.
	That's a no.
	That's no.
	Because sometimes I do if it's an object, they'll do it.
	Yeah.
	If it's like a concept, it's different.
	If I had you describe this word without saying the word, like let's say the word was flagrant.
	Remember the first thing I said to you?
	Conspicuously offensive.
	Eight-letter word.
	I want you to think of how you would describe this person.
	Would it be more visual?
	Would it be more of like a concept?
	Would it be more, hmm.
	What was that book?
	Aurora in Harlem.
	I'm getting it from you.
	I think I know it from you.
	Can I ask you a question?
	Sure.
	I'm scared.
	How's the breathing sound?
	Your lips.
	Your lips.
	He's been doing this.
	Word starts with an M, doesn't it?
	Holy shit.
	This is crazy.
	And then we're in.
	It's Harlem.
	We're in Manhattan.
	Is the word Manhattan going?
	It is Manhattan.
	That's crazy.
	What the fuck?
	And then you have to.
	Any two books.
	Any two books.
	Look this way at me at yours.
	Think of the first letter.
	Keep going all the way until you get to the last letter.
	Okay.
	That's that.
	So this is, you always ask me, how does it work?
	The last letter is helpful with a lot of words because a lot of words have the same last letter.
	They always do.
	Plurals, right?
	The air hissing, the little, the way you did that.
	Last letter is an S, isn't it?
	There's more than one of this.
	Books about the CIA.
	Something to do with food.
	Something to do with food.
	Hold on.
	Don't look.
	I'm going with this.
	I would have thought a cooking book.
	I'm done.
	I wrote it.
	Open your eyes.
	Oh, no.
	Look at us.
	Hold on.
	Hold on.
	Let me just.
	You forgot the word.
	No, no, I got it.
	I got it.
	Yeah, yeah.
	I got it.
	It's not a package food item, is it?
	Tell us, what's the word?
	Tourists.
	Tourists, everybody.
	Yeah, yeah, tourists is what I wrote down.
	Yo!
	That's crazy.
	That's really good.
	That's crazy.
	Those who are simply listening.
	Andrew's melting down.
	He may bring back the Kim Jong-un haircut after this.
	Just in protest.
	That's really good.
	How do I do this with my girl when we ask what we're going to eat tonight?
	That's what I need.
	Folks, there's limits to my powers.
	I did the same thing yesterday.
	I'm like, are we doing Thai food?
	Are we doing sushi?
	She's like, no, no.
	Eight other things were listed.
	Then we went back to sushi an hour later.
	I'm curious.
	In your show, I imagine there is a bunch of different things happening.
	You're doing all different types of effects and magic and illusions, right?
	So there's like cold reading and stage effects and things like that.
	I'm curious, is there any like straight up gimmicks or trickery that exists in like the stage production?
	Not really for me.
	I like to be bulletproof.
	I can show up to your house with nothing.
	I've literally done it.
	I'm in a bathing suit.
	It's a 4th of July party.
	And I'm like, you got a phone, you got books, you got this, you got that, give me a Sharpie.
	I write something on someone's hand.
	Like I've tried to get to the MacGyver stage of, what do you got?
	I got bubblegum.
	I got a hair clip and I got this.
	Bam, I got an hour show.
	Because the highest level of purity in entertainment is a stand-up comedian.
	Sam Kame can stand in front of tens of thousands of people, Madison Square Garden, right?
	You've done it.
	And just speak only your words are all you need.
	Wow.
	Did they get it?
	Nice.
	Left at ESPN.
	I was just on ESPN before this.
	Can I see what we got in there?
	Oh, we'll grab it in a second.
	We'll grab it in a second.
	It's a dry erase board and there should be, are there inside open up letters?
	Alphabet letters?
	Bam.
	We got this.
	All right.
	We're going to use this in a second.
	Left this at ESPN.
	I like how Alex looks.
	You're that good.
	Why didn't you remember to bring it?
	I know.
	Play my assistant on that one.
	All right.
	So I got to stop.
	Mentalism is no, no props are required.
	Magic.
	You still need the cards.
	You need this.
	Even though I love carts.
	Don't get me wrong.
	I want to.
	Can we do some fun?
	Let's do something.
	Are we ready?
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Let's do something.
	So who's good with cards?
	How did what?
	Hold on with the books.
	So you guys just chose the books.
	I need to be clear.
	I said to them, Do you have to try books?
	Yeah, Ari chose the books at random.
	He wanted to go to Barnes and Noble first.
	I told him, go buy books.
	I don't know what books he brought.
	These are not, I got to be like 100% clear.
	I said, go get any books.
	And you don't even get to look at the books or anything like that.
	I told him to buy new ones from Barnes and Noble.
	I'll go to someone's house and say, go upstairs, get any book you want.
	That's, of course.
	And you don't get to sit with the book page 138 and then went to your 138.
	So how would he have controlled that?
	He can't know the whole book.
	I mean, whatever.
	Okay.
	Yeah, that's crazy.
	He's reading me in the moment.
	If I try to be like still and not give you anything, is that going to make your job harder?
	No, because it's a toy.
	Make your own adventure.
	Bitch.
	Hey, fucking bitch.
	We'll get to the bottom of it.
	Like, you'll do that.
	So you have no time with the books.
	Like, if you have time with the books, I could probably reverse engineer how that happened.
	But if you have no time with the books, then it's like.
	I know.
	I know.
	Oh, I can figure it out.
	You like how Mark just looked to see if every word in the whole book is Manhattan.
	He's like, no, I got it.
	I got it.
	This is okay.
	This is my like fucking dumbass brain that is always trying to deconstruct, but I would just be like, okay, you've looked at both the books.
	You, what page you chose the page that I had on here.
	I didn't choose the page.
	Did you not choose it?
	No, I didn't choose that page.
	Somebody else chose the page.
	After you said stop, I said stop.
	So wherever we stopped on that page, he just told you.
	And to be clear, then the second time you said that, can I pick either page?
	That's your words.
	So they're two pages.
	Are they the same word on both pages?
	But the second time you stopped, so there was what is he?
	I know.
	Keep going.
	Go, go, go.
	Can I just get there?
	Can I just get there?
	Okay.
	So the second time you stopped, the first time there wasn't enough pages.
	The second time you stopped, the word on your page was you guessed.
	You just guessed.
	No, I thought you guys opened it somewhere in the middle and looked at a book.
	That was totally separate.
	Ah, so you started that one.
	And then the next time you went through, we looked on my page.
	Yep.
	Right.
	So maybe there's a version where you could, you already knew what the word on 138 was here and you forced Mark to stop at page 138 because you're so good.
	I don't know.
	That's what I would do if I was a magician.
	That's what I would do too, but pick a new page pick.
	That's why you're not a magician.
	Yeah, I know.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	I'm a big skeptic, but that book's not even out.
	You can pre-order it on Amazon.
	Wait, which one?
	Bustamante gave that to us and dropped it off.
	He's been at the studio for like a month.
	And he doesn't even look at the fucking book.
	That's unbelievable.
	That is.
	Alex, what are we messing around with?
	Go out, get any book you want anywhere in this place.
	Flip to any page and look at any word.
	I don't want the first word.
	I want any word.
	Go.
	This is David.
	Little assistant.
	Read a little something.
	Read a little something.
	Do something with your life.
	Yo, Mark is so tight that you're not making him the assistant.
	All right.
	You're going to disappoint.
	There's no trick.
	I just want him out of here.
	The black magic assistant just runs away every trick.
	Are you going to do?
	Are you going to do?
	Are you going to do card or?
	When you're back for that, though.
	When you're back for the cards, because it's four people.
	I'm sorry if I'm being cynical.
	Is there not a part in all of you that is trying to deconstruct it?
	But this is just one.
	I don't want to seem like a hater at all.
	I'm trying to make sense of something that is truly unbelievable.
	So I hope you don't feel like I don't appreciate what you've done.
	No, you're showing a lot of.
	Oh, come on now.
	He's going to think I saw it.
	Chat cheat it.
	The glasses.
	No, no, no.
	That's unbelievable.
	Here, the book's not out.
	The book is not out.
	It's not out.
	It's not available.
	How do you find?
	And pick a word.
	I don't know.
	Like, pick a word somewhere in there, interesting.
	You know what?
	Don't even let me say interesting because now that that leads the witness.
	Open any page you want.
	Remember what page number you picked.
	And what if I did that already?
	Oh, you already did all that?
	Yeah, yeah.
	Oh, beautiful.
	Leave the book outside.
	Bitch.
	Just threw that book.
	Look at his face.
	Get this on camera.
	The Botox is helping.
	He can't wait.
	That was unbelievable.
	The book's not available.
	It's not available.
	Like, it would be different if you picked like Huckleberry Finn.
	But that's not available.
	There's no way you can get the book.
	He also called out the number, the page number.
	So how could he have known 138?
	Alex is not going to be able to keep this posture.
	So let's get through this.
	I can remember the word.
	No, no, no.
	We're going to let this marinade.
	We're going to let this marinade.
	I got to do this the whole fucking episode.
	He's still flexing the whole time.
	All right.
	That is unbelievable.
	Okay.
	What's in?
	Yeah, I want to take the cards.
	Let's mark it in.
	He really offers a good shuffle.
	He's a magician.
	Shuffle those up.
	Check them, check them out.
	Are those?
	Is that the book's not available?
	It's not available.
	That's the thing.
	Shuffle, dude.
	Dude, shuffle.
	Make sure.
	Are they in some sort of order they mixed up?
	Are you going to remove the jokers or is this?
	I don't care, man.
	Leave the jokers, whatever.
	Take the jokers out, throw them away.
	Damn, Mark, you are killing that book.
	Oh, my thigh.
	What?
	Can I not have a break, dude?
	I'm not fucking.
	I mean, for a magician, this is really not.
	Yeah, this is a good thing.
	I did more stage illusions.
	Okay.
	I was doing like bigger picture stuff, you know, tigers, lions.
	I'm a Copperfield guy.
	This looks like he didn't have any male friends.
	He never just play cards.
	Are they mixed up?
	I think so.
	All right, here's the thing: I won't touch them.
	You hold them out.
	And Alex, I want you to lift off and you're going to put a pile in front, a pile in front, lift on.
	You can't take the whole deck because you got to leave a little for a coach.
	You take off anywhere between, let's say, I think stop it.
	Stop it, guys.
	You're going to make a crack and you're going to guess it.
	Alex.
	Alex.
	We broke him.
	We broke up cups.
	Take off a chunk.
	It could be a little, it could be a lot.
	Don't take a whole deck because you got to leave a little for Akash to work with.
	Lift off a chunk, put it on the table.
	I don't want such a good.
	Are these shuffled?
	Are these shuffles?
	Swear to God.
	So sassy.
	Put them down.
	Ba-bam.
	All right.
	Mark, same deal.
	Akash, your turn.
	Lift off a chunk, but you got to take, you can take more than him, less than him, whatever you want.
	Put them down like in front of you, but kind of turn them this way.
	It's right here.
	No, three piles right here.
	Oh, good, my bad, my bad.
	It's all good.
	You're doing too much.
	And then throw it a rich over next to it on the side.
	On this side.
	Sure.
	Fair?
	Come on.
	Is there a way we can do something?
	No, We got to make this exciting.
	Okay.
	We need some skin in the game.
	Okay.
	You know what?
	Let's make this fun.
	Let's make it fucking raining.
	How's that sound?
One Digit at a Time 00:06:24
	Wait, hold on.
	How's that?
	I don't want to touch.
	I don't want to touch any of the cards.
	So take those bills and I don't want to touch anything.
	Throw those on the table.
	Throw this.
	Move the bills.
	Just take the bills away just so we can still see the cards.
	I like how Akash got lightly aroused when I just said that.
	Yeah, He's like, we going to the club, baby?
	You go into the club?
	Hindu's not supposed to disrespect money.
	This is going to be making me feel like a fucking shot.
	Any one of these bills, Akash, I want you to, or pick up anyone.
	Walk around, walk around, and pick up any one of those bills.
	All right.
	And fold it in half.
	So the present on the inside, give a nice concrete.
	Hold it one more time.
	Precision.
	Precision, baby.
	Don't you do this.
	And sit on it.
	Don't you do this.
	You ever have this sensation?
	Let me ask you, where your phone rings, your phone rings, and you don't, you're vibrating, and you're not expecting a call from this person.
	This isn't like your wife told you, but you somehow know who it is.
	Have you had that distinctive feeling or never?
	No.
	You have not.
	Is that right?
	You said you have not had that feeling because I've had that before where I know who it is, but that's my job.
	But you say, what a weird thing.
	Like intuition, instincts.
	How did I know this person was going to call me?
	Anytime I'm annoyed by a call, I know it's my wife.
	Okay.
	I get my phone vibrates and I'm like, this is annoying.
	I know it's my wife.
	Maybe I have that feeling.
	I don't know.
	I don't know.
	I said, and you said, I'm going to figure this out.
	And I don't mind that.
	And I said, imagine a deja vu moment where you somehow get a call and you feel it and you didn't expect to have vibrate.
	And you pick somebody at random and the phone's calling right now.
	Grab out your phone.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, go to your contacts, please.
	Okay.
	Yeah.
	Yep.
	Where are you right now?
	The front?
	The very top.
	Very top.
	So I said to you to imagine as if you were getting a call from one person.
	Okay.
	Is that right?
	Yeah.
	Go to that person, scroll through, find them, and hide it close to you.
	Okay.
	This was picked completely at random.
	Yep.
	This is a totally random person.
	Scroll through.
	Yep.
	And I want you to find them.
	But before you open it up, do you know this person's phone number by heart?
	Not by heart.
	Nobody knows anybody's phone number.
	Am I right?
	How many people's phone numbers do you know?
	Oh, wow.
	Hold on.
	Let's say that, dude.
	Say it one more time.
	All right.
	Mark, pick up any one of those piles.
	Pick up any one of those piles.
	Put it in your hand.
	And I want you to put your fingers on the back where nothing can touch it.
	All right.
	Here's what's crazy.
	You could have picked anybody in your old phone.
	You could have picked anybody.
	I did not say to you who it was.
	You went through, scrolled.
	You're like, imagine this person calling you.
	Don't give us the area code because then we'll know who it is.
	I don't want them to get blown up.
	But tell us one digit at a time.
	You shuffle these cards up.
	I have not touched anything.
	Tell us all one digit at a time their phone number.
	Start with the first digit, not the area code, the first digit of this person's phone number.
	Bleep this too.
	Okay.
	You know, you can do it because we're not going to say the area code.
	What's the first number of their phone number?
	Lift up your finger, please.
	What's the next number?
	This is fucking clear.
	Keep going.
	One.
	There's no one, so how about an ace?
	Keep going fast.
	What else we got?
	Six.
	Six?
	Seven.
	Seven.
	Eight.
	Eight.
	There are $200.
	There are $200 littered around here.
	$200 littered around here.
	And I want to see every single one of them was printed somewhere.
	And how do we know they're real?
	Because the government puts serial numbers on them.
	You're sitting on one.
	You picked anyone out.
	Do me a favor, and I want you to read us one digit at a time the serial number of the bill you picked up.
	One digit at a time, please.
	Go for me.
	One.
	One.
	Six.
	Six.
	Seven.
	Eight.
	Hey, wait, wait, tell us all.
	Tell us all.
	This person, this person, who you thought of, out of your whole phone, what are their initials?
	What are their initials?
	First and last initials.
	Oh, shit.
	What are the two letters from the bill?
	Phone, dude.
	That's the craziest shit I ever seen in my life.
	That's the craziest shit I ever seen in my life.
	Holy fuck.
	That's crazy.
	This is the craziest shit I've ever seen in my life.
	You see why he ain't used me part of this thing?
	Can't read me, bro.
	Just saying.
	That's crazy.
	He threw the money in the air.
	How the fuck did he not grab that bill?
	Where's the other one?
	Yeah.
	Hold on, hold on, Threw the money in the air.
	Wow.
	I don't want to read it.
	Red, you're outside.
	You easily read.
	You're easy to read.
	Is it rude if there's a deliberate effort to try to guess it?
	No, I don't need any minds.
	It's like that's what I'm conflicted by.
	It's like, I know it.
	I usually do it not when I'm present.
	I think the dickhead is the one who wasn't active.
	I think this was kind of small.
	Right.
	But you can go for it.
	I'm not going to assess that.
	That was fucking unbelievable.
	That's really impressive.
	I'm curious, if you were to do a trick to another mentalist or another magician, is there like an anti-trick?
	I sometimes watch Penn and Teller Fool Us.
	Yep.
	And sometimes they'll do a trick.
	Well, they try to, they use you against you.
	They use what you know against.
	Because they know that you will try to subvert it based off of understanding the methods.
	That's what we do.
	It's like when my kids jinx each other and they go jinx and you go, oh, jinx.
	Like you know every single thing as you go and you try to move people in the direction that they think you're going with it and they don't know where it's going to go.
	What the fuck did you just say?
	Yeah.
	Well, it's we know each other's methods.
	What you do to me, what you do to me?
	How do you know I was going to grab that dollar bill?
	You still have the book.
	We're going to come back to this because I'm going to have to do one more choice.
	You fucking gave it away, motherfucker.
	That was the moment.
	He's the Sphinx.
	He gave it away.
	Let down your guard.
	Cabianas, you look gay as shit right now, dog.
	You look gay.
	This activated is awesome.
	If I read it, he's going to read me, guys.
	I don't get how sitting everybody.
Reading Opponents Like Books 00:04:27
	I read one more thing.
	He read my lips before.
	I don't know what the fuck he's looking at.
	Wait, wait, here we go.
	Here we go.
	I want to get your staff involved.
	We had a lot of people in here who were here when we got here.
	And you said you've known who the most.
	It was Dove.
	Dove, yeah.
	Dove 22 years.
	But there's other people.
	Who else?
	Who has never gotten to shine?
	But let's try something.
	Who is there?
	I don't know.
	Who else I talked to?
	There's somebody.
	Tell me.
	Kiana was.
	Kiana's been really nice.
	Who else was there?
	Has Kiana ever been on air?
	Yes.
	Briefly.
	Yes.
	Get her in here.
	Let's do it.
	Keanu.
	Please come here.
	I like the way Akasha is stealing my money right now.
	They say it's a Hindu thing.
	We can't just leave it on the ground.
	I'm making you go outside before Kiana comes in.
	Disrespectful.
	We're swapping.
	Do this.
	Alex, come on over.
	I want you to grab one more thing for me.
	Can I wait?
	Can I come right back and say?
	Yeah, you're doing everything else.
	Kiana, come on in.
	Follow him with the cameras.
	I want to jot down the page number.
	Got it.
	Wait till I'm gone.
	Go fast.
	You got 10 seconds.
	All right, guys.
	Let's take a break from this mind-bending interview with Oz, the mentalist.
	And we got to talk about some deportes, guys.
	We have an unbelievable French Open.
	It was the best tennis I've ever seen in my life.
	Crazy.
	Yeah, and like I said, D'Al, I've kind of fallen out with tennis as I got busier, but then I'm watching this and I'm like, I got to get back in.
	I don't know if these are the best players ever, like in terms of greatness, but the level of tennis that is being played on the men's side of this top, I've never seen shots hit like this.
	I've never seen players who have this few weaknesses.
	Have you seen any of the highlights?
	Yeah, some of them.
	I mean, the points are fucking insane.
	It was Carlos Alcaraz, who is like a Spanish phenom.
	He's got four Grand Slams now, five going up against Yannick Sinner, who's the best player in the world, but for whatever reason, cannot beat Alcaraz.
	He's 0-5 against Alcaraz, and then the last three years, like 82-3 against everybody else.
	Wow.
	Some shit like that.
	It's insane.
	Come get this work, man.
	They say my game is like a mix of Alcaraz and Sinner.
	That's what they say.
	That's what they say.
	You are as.
	Do you think you would beat him the first time you played tennis again?
	It's been like 20 years.
	Yeah.
	Do you think you would be the first?
	Yes.
	And can I tell you something?
	I wasn't even that good.
	I couldn't serve.
	I was too short.
	I'm 5'7.
	Every serve is dog shit.
	I still think I'd beat him.
	Come on, man.
	But he's 5'4, so his serve can't be good.
	Come on.
	You know what I mean?
	It's horrible.
	Come get this work.
	Put some money on it.
	That would be worth it.
	I would watch it.
	Let's bet on it.
	All right.
	I'd put money on it.
	We need to put a little steak bet.
	We need to talk to Stanley.
	Oh, we have an agreement.
	That's going down.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	So listen, we also have NBA Finals, right?
	Oh, yeah.
	NBA Finals.
	That's 1-1 right now.
	Tied up.
	I guess when this comes out, Game 3 will be coming on that night.
	Wednesday.
	Three, yeah.
	Okay, so what are we thinking for that?
	Man, I hope the Pacers win.
	I love the Pacers.
	I think OKC's got it.
	I think OKC's just, yeah, I'm amazed they lost game one.
	But again, I didn't think the Pacers would win the last round.
	The Pacers are a weird team.
	They either beat you or get blown out.
	Yeah, it seems like.
	They can also rally.
	Yeah.
	Every time they lose, they seem to get blown out.
	And you're like, yeah, this is, now we're coming back to reality.
	Yeah.
	And I don't know if it's Rick Carlisle or what.
	The adjustments are crazy.
	I mean, just like, yeah, I think he's one of the best coaches of all time.
	So who do you think?
	So what do you think happens?
	I think OKC wins, but I don't think it's...
	I doubt myself as I say that because I'm like, dude, I don't know.
	The Pacers just keep proving me wrong.
	We got to see what the Pacers do at home.
	That's for sure.
	We got to see what they do at home.
	But I wouldn't be surprised.
	I wouldn't be surprised.
	Son, this kid Shea is nice, dude.
	People hate on him, but he's nice.
	Don't hate.
	He's nice.
	I get like you're like, what is it called?
	Milk and Calls or whatever.
	Free throw merchant is what they call him.
	But still, even without that, he's filthy.
	And I find it less annoying than from what I've seen.
	I haven't watched as much this year, but what Harden used to do was so floppy and all over the place.
	I don't think Shay's that bad.
	He seems to go to the rim a lot.
	He'll still put it up.
	He'll try to draw the foul, but not like to an insane degree.
	Yeah.
	Not on that Euro shit.
	No, his game is awesome.
	Yeah.
	I don't know why I really root against OKC, but they're so good.
	Yeah, we have to have to give it up to that organization.
	They've done an amazing job of building up, rebuilding, rebuilding.
	This is...
	All about being cheap.
	That's the reason they traded.
	Was it Harden the first time?
	They didn't want to pay for one year, basically, of maybe being on the luxury tax.
Harden Flop vs Nice Guy 00:15:41
	Yeah.
	And they still keep doing it.
	Yeah.
	No, we got to look into that.
	Who runs that team?
	Sam Presti.
	It's Presti, right?
	Came from the Spurs.
	Yeah, he needs some flowers, bro, because they've done a phenomenal job.
	Anyway, stake is a leader in global betting and a U.S. social casino.
	It's been on top sports and political events.
	Use the promo code Flagrant for your welcome bonus.
	Let's get back to our boy Os.
	All right.
	I got it.
	All right.
	Come back.
	Have a seat for me.
	Hiding, hiding, hiding.
	Just knocking.
	Alex was told to think of, to write down, I said, write down what page you went to in the book.
	Is that correct?
	Yes.
	Yeah, hold on.
	You had picked the page number earlier, was 138.
	But you said, maybe I've gone through the book, but we know it's pre-release.
	So I couldn't know what book this is, but you've written down the page number.
	So if you gave that note to him, he could go to that page, and what are the odds he picks the same word?
	What do you think are the odds he picks the same word if he even knew the page?
	It's probably high.
	Really?
	How could that be?
	Aren't there a ton of words?
	Take the note.
	Forget it.
	You're not going to be able to do it.
	Alex.
	I was going to let you show it to him.
	You're throwing them off.
	Take the note.
	Rip it into shreds.
	Rip the note.
	Yeah, because I was going to let you show it to him.
	I thought you said, no way would he pick the same word.
	Rip it up.
	Rip it up.
	And full transparency, I said, make up a word out of your mind that wasn't in the book that just came to you.
	Is that correct?
	Yes.
	That's written up there too.
	Throw it away.
	So now we're done.
	Now, I thought we'd let you go to the same page and see if somehow I can get your minds connected.
	But no, now they said only word on the page.
	All right.
	Look behind you at how many pages are in the book.
	I won't look.
	Look at how many pages are in the book.
	You did it?
	Wait, wait, wait.
	Most books are between 280 and 350.
	Okay.
	Is it between 280 and 350?
	No.
	Oh, good outlier.
	Probably went with less.
	Probably went with less.
	Hide the book.
	Hide the book.
	Why you said hidden?
	He would choose that book because he probably did a smaller book, Try to Screw With Me.
	Thank you, Chief.
	He knows this person who wrote it.
	Look at that familiarity.
	You picked any book.
	You challenged me.
	You went and got any book.
	Is that correct?
	Yes.
	You went to any page.
	You picked any word.
	And you look stiff AF right now.
	And you thought of a word.
	I'm never going to get the word that was in the book.
	That's impossible.
	We know that.
	Andrew's already figured it out.
	But how could I get all this other stuff?
	Are your nails painted?
	I just noticed that.
	He's calling you gay.
	Book was less than 280, wasn't it?
	Yes.
	Person, person.
	You keep trying to look at him.
	They host the podcast together.
	Charlamagne the God.
	Is that who the person wrote the book?
	Yes.
	You picked the easiest shit in the world, yo.
	What the fuck are you doing?
	Think of the page.
	Think 150, 160, 170, 180.
	It was just around 200 words.
	And you flipped in the middle and you went back three pages.
	91.
	Is it page 91?
	Yes.
	And then do you know what he looks like to me?
	Do you know what he looks like to me?
	He looks like somebody who's thinking of a word.
	Yeah.
	But he also looks like he's trying to hold something.
	He's trying to hold in a fart.
	What are you thinking of the word fart?
	Get the fuck.
	Oh, wow.
	Yo, what the?
	You readable, bitch.
	He's so readable, yo.
	And then the ultimate, you ready?
	We go through his eyes.
	Imagine I go through his eyes.
	We could see him walking out there, picking any book out of the shelf.
	Nothing written, nothing, nothing.
	Just taking a book, flipping it over, and you said, well, maybe I saw that book before.
	Boom.
	Step one.
	I couldn't have seen this book before.
	You just picked anyone.
	Is that right?
	Was anything set up before this moment?
	I didn't pick the page.
	You picked page 91.
	Figured it out.
	And now, even if we went to page 91, there's a ton of words.
	So, think of all the letters in the words.
	Count the number of letters to yourself.
	Just did what you did.
	Watch.
	He's quick, though.
	He's quicker than you for the record.
	This guy's a businessman.
	You counted quick, same way he did it.
	Three drums, like three, three beats.
	Do you know what I mean?
	Two, three beats, six letters.
	Six letters?
	Yes.
	Yeah.
	You did exactly what he did when you Jordan.
	He's still thinking about Jordan, by the way.
	Stop breaking out.
	I told him he thought of the letter D earlier, remember?
	And he said, no, I thought of the A.
	And I said, I could tell when you switched from the D to the A. Think of a letter in your word.
	See, you just did the same thing.
	I said D, so you thought of D. You went to R, older people.
	Elders was the word you picked.
	Shit.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	Where did you pick that word from?
	No, it was on the page.
	Show him the book.
	Shit.
	Call the Breakfast Club.
	Tell them I'm on there next, baby.
	That's your target demo, dude.
	You got no clue.
	He has like three or four bucks.
	There's also 400 books that are older than 1920 in Brilliant Idiots, and you pick sharp.
	Shut up.
	Page 91.
	Listen to the elders, bro.
	Wild.
	All right.
	Wait, where did Forge come from?
	Yeah, where Fart.
	No, he told me to pick a random word.
	Yeah, just a random word.
	I was going to write the N-word, but I didn't want to get you cancer.
	I was going to do it.
	You think I didn't know you were about to do that?
	Come on.
	He wanted to go full circle from Martin Luther to all in one episode.
	Six letters.
	You getting canceled, Pearlman.
	Dude, wow.
	Alex is good at complying.
	Yeah.
	Maybe we should teach the cops mentalism.
	We're going to LA next, boys.
	When's this going to drop?
	Fuck.
	Kiana, you came in.
	Yeah.
	All right.
	Get on the mic.
	Go over.
	Can she go over here?
	Yeah.
	All right, Kiana.
	Here's the game.
	It's a deja vu.
	It's like an exercise where you walk out of here, okay?
	Bring the mic up.
	And this is how I want you to visualize.
	You're going to play this through in your head.
	You've done this before.
	I know you have.
	In fact, if we're being legit, you've probably done this 100 times.
	You walk into a bodega, right?
	You walk up and down the aisles and you look over here snacks, right?
	We got probably salty snacks.
	We got candy.
	We got beverages.
	And you're going back and forth.
	You're letting your fingers graze stuff.
	And this is when you reach up.
	And this is really important.
	You open up or you reach down, you grab, and you grab one thing, you bring it to the counter, and you get ready to swipe your card.
	Close your eyes.
	Can you see this playing out in your mind?
	Can you act this out and see yourself doing it?
	Okay.
	Are you sitting?
	I want you to be comfortable.
	Under oath in court, you could swear to God, this was a random choice.
	Yeah.
	Is that right?
	Now, watch.
	Also, for you gentlemen, I like to have a visual.
	I wanted to bring scrabble like tiles.
	I forgot them at home.
	It's not part of the show.
	I literally, my kids have them.
	So each of you gentlemen, you're going to reach in your right pocket right now.
	Feel what's in your pocket.
	Nothing, right?
	Now, Andrew, you're good.
	You're good.
	But I had you pretend.
	The pretend is that you reach in and you grab out and you have one scrabble tile in your pocket.
	Grab it out.
	And I want you to hold it in your hand as if you could see it.
	As if you could see it.
	Ready?
	Here's where this gets good.
	I'm going to give you each a marker.
	And I don't want to see what you write, but I want you, is it okay if you write something with a marker on your hand?
	Sure.
	I want you to write down that scrabble tile.
	And just for the record, these are consonants.
	I wanted to make sure they're consonant, not vowels.
	Consonant, it should be, yeah, it's consonant.
	Vowels cost motherfuckers.
	I just read me.
	I was going to write Europe, Australia.
	I'm not judging you based on you thinking of the word fart out of the hole in this right.
	All right.
	I don't want to see it.
	Write down your letter in your hand and hold it close.
	Hold it close.
	Is this marker too thick for you?
	No.
	You like the cossacks?
	And I can't see or can I?
	You're going to see at the end.
	You're going to make it work.
	I'm not going to say it.
	This is what I told you at the beginning.
	Remember, full circle.
	I said the best comedians can take a subject, infertility, and make it hilarious.
	That's a gift.
	Yeah, yeah.
	And I don't want to see it.
	Write yours in your left palm so I don't see it.
	And Alex, write yours.
	This thing's never coming off, by the way.
	They're going to get a buzz just from this soaking through there.
	Okay.
	It's been dipped in LSD, boys.
	It's about to be fun night.
	Oh, hell yeah.
	Oh, that'd be fire.
	Okay.
	Okay.
	Done.
	Okay, you did it close to your heart.
	Here is where it gets good.
	You're going to fill in the blanks.
	Can't really form a word without vowels, unless it's like Polish.
	So they're going to show you from left to right.
	They're going to show you their hands, and you're going to form a word.
	You get to put in vowels in the middle.
	I don't know how many vowels you're going to use, but form a word based on these three letters that they picked at random.
	Wait, wait, wait, wait till I'm gone.
	Starting with the kosh, getting close to a mark, and then last, go ahead and show them your hand as well.
	Show them your hand.
	You guys get it?
	From left to right, I want you to see the same way you would read from left to right.
	Look at those three letters.
	Did you see Akash's?
	Did you see Mark's?
	And did you see Alex?
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	Have you done that?
	Yeah, yeah.
	I'm praying because most of the time you can make some sort of word out of it.
	Do you have a word that you made out of that?
	I can add vowels in the middle.
	I got one.
	I don't care what.
	I got one.
	I got it.
	Yeah.
	If not, there might be different ones.
	There's like, you know, it's like boggle.
	All right.
	Here's where this gets good.
	Just a word.
	Hold on.
	Kiana.
	A deli has over 500 things usually, like a bodega.
	Are you good?
	Yeah, I just want to make sure it was a word.
	Is it not a word?
	Yeah, it's a word.
	Yeah.
	Did you see how when I was talking about the choices?
	I said salty.
	I said sweet.
	I said beverages.
	I do all those things.
	And I rushed through one of them.
	You asked me how I do it.
	And I rushed and I noticed, be honest, that I saw you micro-nod beverage.
	You thought of a beverage, didn't you?
	Am I right?
	Yes.
	Because I put beverage in all your minds.
	You didn't realize it.
	Tell us all.
	I'm pulling it out.
	I got one thing in here.
	What did you pick?
	What did you buy out of the whole deli?
	Say it.
	What was it?
	Fanta.
	Fanta.
	And you guys did FNT.
	Did you think of Fanta also?
	No.
	No.
	Oh, no.
	What are the letters?
	It's not F-N-T?
	No.
	What are the letters?
	L, G, R. What was the word?
	Lager.
	Are you serious?
	There's a fucking beer in there, dog.
	Don't do this.
	Don't do this, yo.
	You know what?
	You said, how do you make this legendary?
	Forget Fanta.
	We got for you right over here.
	Hold on, that's going to go everywhere.
	Get a sip, dude.
	Will you let it sit, my man?
	No fucking way.
	I just broke my sobriety.
	That's 20 years down the ground.
	Oh, no.
	That's a lager, though.
	That is a good lager.
	Holy shit.
	Hold up.
	Hold up.
	I want to show you one thing.
	I want to show you one thing.
	Are you ready for this?
	Hold up.
	I want to show you one thing.
	How the fuck?
	Hold on.
	Hold on.
	Where's that marker?
	Al probably got it.
	Because he wrote last.
	Wait, you got that marker?
	No, I haven't remarked.
	Here's a marker.
	Here's a marker.
	Take a look.
	I want you to see something.
	Yeah.
	You could have said, you could have picked anything, right?
	I don't know you.
	You said Fanta.
	F.
	Yeah.
	I believe you said F-A-N-T-A.
	Is that right?
	First words out of my mouth.
	You had a podcast since 2019, very successful podcast, in fact.
	And you picked any three letters.
	Or L, G, R, this is offensive.
	Yeah, because everything has brought us to this moment.
	An F-L-G-A-R-A-N-T.
	Flagrant is exactly what she's doing.
	That is so fire.
	Holy shit.
	Bro, I was struggling to put a word together with those three people.
	I saw you flash.
	You came up with Grail.
	Switch the alerts.
	Longer is hard.
	How the fuck did you guys?
	It's okay.
	How the fuck did you guys?
	Yo, that's crazy.
	Wait, wait.
	And so you guys could have bought the drinks.
	You guys know.
	Wait, hold on.
	You guys could have picked any letter.
	You guys could have picked any letter.
	Yeah.
	Why?
	Oh, gosh.
	I would deconstruct tonight.
	Keep going.
	I can't.
	I can't.
	We can't continue.
	That one I can't.
	No, we can continue, please.
	We can be here all fucking day.
	That was unbelievable.
	Haul.
	20 years of sobriety.
	20 days.
	I drank last night.
	I drank last night.
	It's not worth it.
	Oh, boy.
	That was unbelievable.
	How'd you get the longer into the unopened Fanta?
	Who bought the Fanta?
	Which is missing that far.
	That was an unopened Fanta.
	What the fuck is going on?
	He's a witch.
	So you brought the Fanta with you.
	Yeah, you could have it.
	It's all yours.
	I don't drink.
	I would love if it was Fanta.
	I don't drink either.
	Holy shit.
	We would have burned this motherfucking pasta.
	Yeah, you're alive in a very unique time.
	For Alex, because he finally let the fart out.
	It just happened.
	Finally let it go.
	I appreciate it.
	Holy shit.
	How many of these...
	Mark is still thinking about Jordan by the way.
	Stop me doing that.
	That's how you call that.
	Tell me, Tony, Tom.
	How many of these moves are completely proprietary that you created them?
	I have a very good sense of how to put things together, right?
	I call it Fiji water.
	I can repackage water in a bottle.
	Should have made people billionaires, but it did.
	Why?
	The feeling you got, the visuals, the images, the whole story, the whole thing.
	The more you're going to think about that one, I hope you spend a day or two.
	It's going to get crazier and crazier to think that she could have picked Fanta.
	You could have picked any letters.
	All of it combines, all meant to be.
	I think that that's what's fun about it is that you don't see where it's going.
	How the fuck did you guys not pick different letters?
	That's what I don't understand.
	Yeah, how do you get me to the L?
	How do you get you to the G?
	How do you get you to the R?
	How do you get her to the Fantasy?
	You guys just chose whatever letter you wrote it on your hand, right?
	Yeah, yeah.
	So I'm telling you, you know what?
	The craziest part is...
	Would the white woman have picked a Fanta?
	I don't think so.
	I think he went to the minority on purpose.
	First Martin Luther King, then this.
	Frankly, I'm offended by the show.
	And are you doing a different set?
	I mean, you have to do a different set.
	My corporate set and what I do for air quotes, a living when I'm doing events, is I typically have like an A show, B show, and I don't want to call it a C show because we're going to be like C show, but it's just different material.
	But we live in an era where I don't need to change what I do very often.
	Comedians have a much higher level.
	Every time we're in a market.
	Well, you've got a, you burn a special, it's gone.
	But when you come on a pod, like, so you can do maybe a variation of this that has the same tools, but they have to present themselves differently.
	Like, I've seen a lot of your stuff.
	I haven't seen you repeat it.
	But if you don't crack the code, you're down to see him do it twice.
	I would watch you do this 14 more times.
	And if it was Fanta, I wouldn't even care.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Next one's grape soda.
	Hey.
	That one am I.
	That one.
	That one.
	Okay.
	Have you ever done an effect someone and they are intentionally obstructive?
	And how do you handle that?
Staged Moments and Market Moves 00:09:12
	It's always the best.
	Like, I went in one time and I did the Bengals.
	I did Joe Burrow and the Bengals, which is one of my most viral clips.
	And he's not, he wasn't, he wasn't.
	This is really funny because a guy hit me up on Facebook Messenger and he told me he was in the grocery store with Joe Burrow.
	And he's like, I have to share this to you.
	I was Joe.
	And he told me, Joe, we were talking about it.
	And he goes, oh, I saw this mentalist.
	I'm a huge fan of his.
	Do you remember him?
	He goes, remember him?
	He goes, I spent eight months trying to figure out how the hell he did that to me.
	And I thought I knew how he did it.
	And then at the Super Bowl, I saw him backstage and he did something else to me.
	And I realized I had no idea because everything I thought was completely like I had this theory and it was all wrong because he did it to me again, but with nothing.
	But what do you do?
	I think what Mark is asking when someone lies.
	No, but it's important to understand.
	So that got into his head, but I never was able to meet Joe Burrow before.
	So most people think, which I go in fresh to most of these things.
	I'll do an event with 5,000 people.
	I didn't meet all these people.
	You can't throw a Frisbee to somebody 26 rows.
	They stand up.
	I guess the name of their dog when they were seven and like have set that up unless you think that I got Tom Brady throwing Frisbee.
	It's like, how could that be?
	Yeah.
	So it's not set up.
	You have to be able to do this with anybody or you'll run out of career really quick.
	But with Burrow, I was not allowed to see him.
	I was told he would not be in the show.
	So they literally sent to me kind of the PR.
	It's like, I don't, Joe doesn't want to be in.
	He doesn't want to do it.
	And I go, okay, let me do what I do.
	You do what you do.
	I'm going to get in there.
	I'm going to get everyone fired up.
	I'm going to get him excited.
	I'm going to show that he's the leader.
	The team wants him to do it.
	And he's going to buy them.
	I guarantee you, same way that I walked up to tables at Zia's when I was 14, and people want nothing to do with me two minutes later when I'm leaving are like, please stay.
	Right?
	That's the best feeling in the world.
	You don't want me.
	Now you don't want to let me go.
	And so that's how you win over an audience, both in entertainment and anything you do in the attention economy.
	So I got him up, and that was something where I told when I was on Joe Rogan, he's like, How long were you planning that?
	I go, two years, Joe.
	Two years, I was thinking how I was going to execute the ultimate football trick, which is quarterback, all my eligible receivers stand up, look at them, look at me, and I tell you who he's going to throw the ball to every time.
	I saw the Josh Allen.
	Yeah, Josh Allen was crazy.
	Unbelievable.
	Thank you.
	Okay, so two years you're planning the execution of that trick.
	So that means right now you are planning a trick that might come to fruition five years from now.
	Not five years is I don't have that kind of scale right now because I'm so busy.
	So again, it's not going to good problem to have, but I just have so much coming up.
	But is there somebody that you're planning a trick for that you can let us know that has been in homes for how long have you been working on this one?
	I met him two years ago and I've been pretty much planning it since and I know what I'm going to do.
	It's going to be nice.
	Wow.
	So viral.
	And is there a specific thing?
	Oh, yeah.
	Okay.
	Do you have a plan when that's going to come to fruition?
	I show knock on wood.
	If they see this, hopefully the summer.
	Wow.
	Yo, Pat, come on, flagrant.
	Yeah.
	I mean, holy fucking.
	I saw a clip, and I think it was you were on the Joe Budden podcast.
	I was on Joe Button.
	And you did a, you, you guessed the producer's like nickname for his friend or something.
	Yeah, and he was challenged me too.
	He's like, I don't call him that.
	I go, you don't call him that?
	He goes, what would I call him?
	And I, I nailed it.
	How?
	How?
	Elders, see the God.
	I mean, how there's a lot of how so far.
	You know what I do like about what you do?
	I think what magicians did when we were growing up and what the mentalist, we had a mentalist at a restaurant that we were all eating at the three of us.
	Yeah.
	And we figured out his shit within like three minutes.
	But hopefully it's a lot of like hours for me.
	They sell this illusion of magic.
	Oh, this is a mystical thing.
	We're all connected.
	Whatever thing they use is like a, you don't do that, which I like.
	You break Kayfabe.
	Yeah.
	They don't break a Kayfabe.
	It's like wrestling is real.
	That's what they're doing with a lot of magicians, which is also cool because you want to submit yourself to this.
	But I think because you don't have the props.
	It almost makes it more impressive.
	Yeah.
	And it's less like I have to, I don't have to submit myself to this idea that magic exists.
	I just submit myself to the idea that there's someone who's really fucking good at reading people and situations and whatever.
	And that's an insanely unique, cool skill to have.
	Right.
	That's a transverable skill.
	Yeah.
	Some people always ask me, like, were you born this way?
	And I go, absolutely not.
	I've learned.
	I feel like I'm not showing you any love.
	I keep looking that way.
	No, no, it's cool.
	It's cool.
	Mark's scared of me still.
	Is there something that you hurt my feelings?
	I'm a Copfield guy, not a mentalist guy.
	Cut me deep, Mark Agnon.
	So I fully, again, not to hype the book, but like I'm I figured out over years because I get asked the same question all the time, which is how do you do this?
	How can I learn this?
	And I go, you don't actually want to learn this.
	And be like, what do you mean?
	Yeah, you do.
	I go, no, you don't.
	Because let's say I showed you how to, you know, have someone pick a dollar bill and have it be the phone number somebody just thought and all this.
	Well, where would you do that?
	Well, I really wouldn't do that because I'm not an entertainer.
	I go, well, what do you do for a living?
	And I go, well, I, you know, customer success manager at a startup.
	I go, great.
	What would you like to achieve in the next two years?
	I want to get a raise.
	I want to do this.
	I'm going to show you how to do that.
	And I'm going to make your percent chances of doing that 50, 60, 7% higher.
	Because what is all about relationships, how to read people, how to utilize kind of knowledge for that.
	Like, how do you walk in the room and take charge?
	The same thing I'm doing.
	If you could do it in your life, not performing, I assure you, you would see major results.
	Yeah, and then the scale of what you do monetarily is probably way higher because a sales company will be like, pay this guy whatever.
	No, I mean, well, how do you know when do you approach somebody to ask for a raise?
	That's such a simple question.
	But if you go to them on a Monday after they went vacation, they're all that timing is everything in life.
	Something I learned so early on.
	When do I hold on?
	You ask me, Am I waiting?
	Yeah, I'll wait two years.
	I'll wait four years.
	But when I do that thing from a homes, it's going to be mega viral because it's all about picking your moment.
	And I think I learned that in the restaurants.
	I learned that in other parts of life, but that skill applies to everyone and everything.
	So the Joe Burrow thing, did you put it off?
	You got an opportunity before that.
	You said no.
	No, it wasn't that the opportunity took two years.
	The opportunity took two years.
	And I also didn't burn it on someone else because I could have tried to.
	But Joe Burrow is notoriously media shy, not knocking.
	He's just a shy guy.
	If you actually meet him, he's a super nice.
	Very likable thing, actually.
	Very likable, but very, he's just not.
	Yeah, some guys in front of the camera are boisterous.
	He doesn't really give a lot off.
	So when you see him losing his mind, it's he also signed a $275 million contract the day before that hit.
	So everyone in the comments, my best comment, the one that got run up with like 30,000 likes, was some guy goes, dude, he paid him off.
	And I go, I wish to God I had enough money to pay off Joe Burrow to do this after his $275 million contract might drop.
	I was like, I wish.
	There's no paying him off.
	Does that frustrate you at all?
	No, I love that.
	People trying to discredit?
	That's the number one thing you could say.
	People say this was staged.
	That's the biggest compliment.
	That's the biggest compliment there is.
	And it's also the funniest because I've had hundreds of TV appearances.
	Have I staged it with every single person?
	Is it, did I find some way to get a billionaire to do this and Andrew Schultz to do this and Joe Rogan to pretend he gave me his pin code?
	Yeah.
	I use racism biggest things about audience members on stage sometimes.
	They'll accuse me of being staged.
	And I'm like, non-communication.
	Koshi's going to start doing a beverage thing where he goes whiskey, Fanta.
	I can tell you right now who's picking what.
	He just looked at me on kombucha.
	It was very offensive.
	I'm like, I live in Brooklyn, but I'm not in Brooklyn, bro.
	Do you remember the first magic trick you ever learned?
	100%.
	What was it?
	And can you do it?
	I don't do it anymore because a gimmick.
	So it's like it's a trick deck, which I don't want to reveal, but when you're younger, you start learning with trick things.
	So, you know, it's kind of a mess.
	You can get a quarter that bends.
	It looks like you give it a bit more.
	Things that you learn the trick because the thing is the trick.
	If I gave it to you, you could do the same trick.
	Versus if I gave you two books, you could not do the same trick as the hope.
	You need to, I am the trick.
	So I am the show.
	I could get dropped off with no luggage and do a show for 5,000 people by going to Staples for 10 minutes.
	That's where I want to be.
	Like, I want to have, I don't want people to think that box.
	When I see Copperfield, love Copperfield.
	But I go, if I had that box, could I do that thing?
	That's the thought that goes in my head.
	I'm like, you.
	I'm just like you.
	I want to figure out how the hell it works.
	Yeah.
	And that's how I became a mentalist.
	In recent times, has anyone ever figured out how you did the trick?
	Like right after you did it?
	If you're on YouTube, it's just like the power of the internet.
	Somebody will dissect it, but it's amazing because 99% of them are wrong and they're so entertaining to listen to.
	But then you always find that one hidden one that has no up likes.
	And I'm like, yep.
	Everything right.
	Like, boom, boom, boom.
	Here's what you did.
	Here's what you did.
	You misdirected them here.
	This is when you did that at 2:30.
	You said that one thing, he knew that.
	And then you, and I'm like, yo, this is, you know, you know what you're talking about.
	So, in YouTube, there's enough consolidation of people, but in a show on stage, it's impossible because there's not enough continuity of information.
	So, what I mean by that is on stage, not everyone can look at the same thing at the same time over and over and over and over.
	Your memories are malleable.
	So, honestly, what I really do for a living is I create memories.
	And I don't mean that in a hoity-toy, like new age way.
	Like, literally, what I do is create memories.
	The way you remember this and the way you're going to tell it has been engineered.
	I've said certain things, I've done certain ways.
	There's ways that I'm getting you to retell this moment.
	And certain things get erased, and certain things get highlighted.
	And there's a way you can do that.
	So, you said sometimes you take a long time to develop the trick.
	Did you watch a lot of flagrant footage to get prepared for any of the tricks you did today?
Engineered Memories and Coffee Breaks 00:02:29
	Yes.
	So, you're doing your research.
	Have you ever mentioned Jordan before?
	Never, he never has.
	So, look it up.
	The internet will find that out.
	All right.
	How the fuck could you figure out Jordan?
	Was Jordan the girl with the gigantic tits you always talk about?
	Only fans?
	No, no, no, not that one.
	Oh, that girl.
	Because you keep talking about this girl.
	Gigantic tits.
	Okay.
	Huge.
	Huge.
	Huge tits.
	And you always would bring it up.
	And that would make sense because you talk about it so frequently.
	Exactly.
	Despite being married with a child.
	I wasn't in college.
	I can look in college.
	I just had a girlfriend back in college.
	Okay, okay.
	She has OnlyFans?
	I think so.
	You're dead in this one volleyball game.
	One volleyball game is all it takes.
	It's all it takes.
	You said, if I done my research, hell yeah, I've done my research.
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Scientists, Therapy, and Visa Papers 00:07:08
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	I'm curious: do you find it unethical if a clairvoyant or a tarot card reader tries to speak with the dead using similar tactics and basically creating false memories for selling them the experience of having some type of supernatural phenomenon?
	Unethical is tough because the person it takes two to tango.
	So it's kind of like if that person's paying them and they want to believe in it, then I think there is a value proposition there where there's what are you getting out of that?
	Like some people go to therapy for 10 years, don't get anything out of it.
	Was that therapist ripping them off?
	I wouldn't do it.
	Am I going to judge people that do that?
	No, but I'm also going to call BS when I see it.
	And so it's funny because on Rogan, he asked me about telepathy tapes.
	Yeah.
	And I've been getting some heat from people who are like, it's real, it's real.
	It's real.
	And they're like, very clearly.
	No, I said very clearly.
	I go, I can't speak to you whether it's real or not.
	Yeah.
	So let me see who that is.
	I knew it.
	I knew that would happen right then.
	I said specifically, I can't.
	It's like me saying if there's God, it's so ridiculous for me to tell you.
	I said, but what I see in videos, I can explain through things that I understand that have to do with the five senses.
	Do you understand?
	Because anything that people will watch me, if you got a scientist in the room, I know how scientists think.
	I could fool a scientist so easy.
	Really?
	Scientists are actually easier to fool than dumb people in my licenses because they have a certain way that there's a regimented thought pattern, right?
	If you have an algorithm and this is how it works, once you learn an algorithm, you can cheat the algorithm, right?
	Like I can tell you what certain video is.
	Their thinking is more predictable.
	Their thinking is so predictable.
	This is the first thing.
	Oh, well, not this A to B, A to B. In fact, that's why I'm saying it not in a weird way.
	Certain people that are dumb or unpredictable are actually harder because see what I did.
	You look there.
	Yeah.
	You all looked.
	He looked later.
	I know exactly what's happening.
	I missed you.
	How Mr. X works.
	So no, but he's still focused.
	Everybody's more impressive than elders.
	You just said pick a random word and you guessed it.
	But wait, but wait.
	So if you know how people think, the best poker push are unpredictable.
	They don't match.
	They do crazy stuff at weird moments and you can't pin them in.
	So where I was going with this is with the telepathy tapes is I can't tell you if you are, if you're a parent and your child's doing this and you're like, that's an amazing feeling to have hope and joy.
	And I'm telling you right now, if it works for you, amazing.
	Where it crosses the line is when you start selling to the public and paying, and then you go into the public realm of, I'm not debunking, but let me watch it and let me see what I think based on what I see.
	Could I do that with my methods?
	And the answer is yes.
	I could have it seem like I'm not communicating and I could show.
	So again, is it real?
	Are there psychics that are real?
	I'm sure there might be, but I've never, I haven't witnessed anything in person yet.
	Sure.
	Not secondhand.
	People always tell you stories.
	It's different.
	Yeah.
	Because psychics are very good at engineering memories the way I am.
	They erase the misses.
	They highlight the hits.
	So you forget all the things that went wrong, right?
	And there's like a recency bias and there's things that get, there's just a lot of skills that are involved.
	The same way a callback hits, the same way comedians take the audience on a journey.
	So I can, I can, I know what things will be remembered.
	I know what he's going to talk about.
	I know what little things like a lot of those are planted.
	It's very clever.
	Like the way you would do a magic trick and you would, you know, like move a hand here and actually do something here.
	That's what it's just being done verbally.
	Right.
	It's verbal misdirection.
	Yeah, it's really clever.
	Verbal misdirection, time misdirection, something called dual reality, where people experience things in a different way.
	What do you mean?
	That's like that's what it is.
	It's multiple realities.
	Like I create different memories for each person because they see in a different way.
	So Alex is experiencing a different thing than I'm experiencing.
	People remember things differently in certain ways for sure.
	Have you ever done it with somebody who guests in real time who was not a mentalist or didn't have any magic background?
	Oh, I've, yeah, parties.
	I'll never forget there was this one dude who was a Russian rocket scientist who was a sound smart and he was.
	And he just like came up to me afterwards and he was very polite and he just explained everything I just did.
	And I was like, yeah, that's right.
	Oh, wow.
	What are you going to say?
	What do you would tell him?
	I would in that case, because the thing of respect.
	And also, he didn't come at me with this energy vibe of like, I got you.
	Right.
	It was more, it was very factual.
	And I said to him, Have you done mentalism before?
	And he's like, no.
	He just has an incredibly, he has just a mind that cannot be misdirected where he just locked in.
	He just locked in and he just thinks of Occam's razor and what's the simplest solution.
	And if it wasn't the simplest solution, what is a simpler solution?
	He was really good at, I don't know how to describe it.
	Like I do math with my kid with fractions.
	You keep wanting the lowest common denominator.
	If you're smart, you can keep whittling away until you find the only method.
	So with me, I can find when I watch other people do this, I know how they're doing it.
	I know all the methods and I keep like looking to see which one it is.
	And when they mix methods, that's where it gets hard.
	Once you start doing like five different things and you jump from method to method to meet.
	It's hard to track.
	It's hard to track.
	Who fools you?
	Who's a person or an effect that you saw that you were like, oh, just a guy named Darren Brown?
	I saw his show.
	Who's great?
	I saw his show.
	I don't want to say fool me because, again, I don't want to, like, I know how it's all done.
	Yeah.
	Because we're in the same business, but I loved it.
	He had a fantastic thing happen during his show that I still can't explain.
	At one point in time, like he tells you to look at this person on stage, and we're like supposed to look at them and they're just standing there.
	And I could be like butchering this.
	At one point, the person like just turns into someone in a monkey costume.
	Right.
	And then they're just there.
	And he goes, and you guys didn't even notice that they're in a monkey costume.
	And then the whole audience looks over.
	They've been on the stage the whole time.
	Like, how do you garner the entire audience's attention and direct it at one part of the stage and get us to completely ignore the other part of the stage?
	Right.
	It was, it was brilliant.
	That's amazing.
	Because I, before that, was going, I'm not leaving that guy.
Lucid Dreams and Monkey Costumes 00:05:13
	Right.
	Like, I'm going, I'm not getting tricked.
	I'm just staring at that one person on the stage because something's happened.
	And then they turn into a monkey.
	Yep.
	It is a little disappointing how easily led you are whenever you're doing it.
	That's the thing that I'm like, oh man, I went to the exact fucking dollar bill.
	He knew I was going to go to.
	How did I do that?
	That's that's part of it, but also the fact that that's how scammers work.
	So like I, my best, if I were to switch careers, I could be a scammer tomorrow.
	I could do psychic stuff, but you, what do you do when you get man?
	Alex is like, let's talk offline.
	Yeah, I mean, the change-breaking scam is like an all-time greater.
	Of course, I don't know if explaining it is, I mean, it's a scam.
	So I don't know.
	Yeah, I don't think they explain it.
	Yeah.
	I mean, you might be able to do a better job.
	You're talking about when you exchange the money and you count it different ways.
	Exactly.
	So basically, like going to a cashier saying, hey, I have a 50, could you break it?
	And then they break it.
	And then basically through kind of sleight of hand, but also sleight of tongue, you're basically able to get $70 from them.
	So you give them 50 and they give you 70 and multiple 20s.
	You take a 20, you say, hey, actually, could I get 10s instead?
	They take it back.
	And you keep on switching it.
	You confuse them.
	Yeah.
	It's a method of confusion and they don't really know.
	And it's at that moment.
	Again, we create memories right when they're supposed to do something.
	You shift their mind and your mind can only focus on one thing in a certain way at the same time.
	And all this money is out, and they're not sure which is yours and which is theirs.
	Do you have a background in hypnosis at all?
	Or do you just sort of understand?
	I don't do hypnosis in my show, but I've done hypnosis.
	Oh, really?
	How hard was that to learn?
	Very easy.
	Really?
	What I used to do, I had this weird thing when high school, in high school, I did a couple of years ago.
	Can you try it to it?
	Are any of us compliant enough to do it?
	I'm not good enough at hypnosis because I don't want to.
	I've tried it.
	I'm mostly auto-hypnosis.
	This sounds like we hypnotize yourself.
	To get into a meditative state or something.
	It was more of used to lucid dreams.
	Like what that is?
	Yeah.
	You put a belt around your neck.
	Nothing weird.
	Babe, I'm hypnotizing myself.
	Don't come in.
	No, I tried that.
	I think for sleep or something, for insomnia.
	It's not that I'm too smart or I'm just so in my head and like confused if I'm doing everything correctly that I couldn't even work.
	It's progressive muscle relaxation.
	So I did this in senior year.
	I did a project on lucid dreaming.
	Do you know what that is?
	Yeah, of course.
	And I learned how to lucid dream multiple times a night, and it was the coolest thing ever.
	And it's very interesting.
	There have been shows on it since, but it's like that movie Inception almost.
	You know, where you would spin the thing and spinning?
	Yeah.
	So what I learned to do is once as you go to bed, you just literally squeeze every muscle for 10 seconds and then let go and keep relaxing your body.
	It wasn't that hard.
	And you would tell yourself, getting more tired, more tired when I count back.
	And you just count in your head and you do this for like three or four minutes.
	And then the last thought before you go to bed is the one that slips into your subconscious.
	And the way you can feel, it's called the hypnagogic stage is if you're, if you put your arm up while you're sleeping like this, it's when you jolt.
	Do you ever do that next to your wife?
	You just jolt and she feels that you were sleeping or you're watching a show.
	If you can control that jolt, because your arm will fall and you'll feel it.
	Right then, if you can tell yourself something as you're going to bed, it slips from your conscious to your subconscious very effectively in those last few seconds because you're in that state with your brain.
	And so what I would do, this is a weird thing I did in senior years, I would check my watch, OCD style, all day, every two or three minutes during the day at school.
	Every two or three minutes, I would look at my watch.
	And after about a week and a half of doing it, in my dream, I started doing it.
	And so in your dream, if you look at your watch, you look away and you look back, there's all different ways.
	It's always a different time.
	So in your dream, I would now go, I'm dreaming.
	And I try not to wake up because usually if you feel it, you wake up.
	If you got good at it, and I used to do that five, six times a night and do crazy stuff.
	So I got erotic.
	Yeah.
	I've had some lucid dreams before.
	And what I thought was interesting is that I don't have complete autonomy in some of them.
	Right.
	So I've had the one where like I'm dreaming.
	And what I would do is I would just like pinch myself because that's what I always heard.
	I was like, oh, if you pinch yourself, you'll wake up.
	And I would pin it on waking up and be like, oh shit, am I actually dreaming right now?
	I am dreaming.
	And I remembered distinctly one, I was like, I think I can fly.
	And I flew.
	I think I can make things grow and I made them grow.
	And it was pretty awesome.
	And then I've had ones where I was like, I'm dreaming right now, but I was too scared to jump off of something and use the powers.
	So, which is just like being alive, which is kind of boring.
	Right.
	He checked his 401k right then.
	I'm limited, yet I'm still in my dream.
	So have you had both versions of those lucid dreams?
	I haven't done it because I have a lot of kids now.
	And so like sleep is at a premium and I don't sleep enough, but I wanted to.
	I remember during COVID, I did it for about a week or two.
	I got that muscle memory back.
	Yeah.
	And I thought it was fun.
	Every time you could do what you wanted, or you were limited in some.
	You wake up.
	So the problem is if you get, because your brain tries to convince you, I can't tell if it's a weird, boring conversation, but your brain tries to snap you out of it.
	Yeah.
	Right.
	Because it's the same way if you ever hear an alarm, it gets worked into your dream as some sort of thing.
	Like, oh, so why is the fucking guy honking the horn over and over and over?
	Oh, and then you wake up and you realize it was that.
	You ever get out of a dream where you want to get back in?
	It was so good.
	You're like, I need back.
	Sometimes you can get back in, though.
	You can get back in.
	That's the thing with lucid ones where you get back in.
	You're like, oh my God, I'm back in.
	And that's when you, the thing that that trips you out is that's when you realize, are we in a simulation?
	Because now if a dream feels that real and you can control it in your own mind, you know.
	What is this?
	Yeah.
	You guys took the mushrooms too, right?
	We all took the mushrooms.
Reality Is Plastic and Mushrooms 00:05:24
	The hypnosis thing I find really interesting.
	I read this book, Reality is Plastic.
	I don't know if you're familiar with it.
	I think I've seen it.
	I haven't read it.
	Well, there's a few that actually I want to ask you about.
	Also, The Full Facts of Cold Reading by Ian Roland.
	That's a great book.
	Oh, yeah.
	I mean, it's so cool.
	But can I pee real quick before we get into this?
	And we're back.
	Okay.
	You're talking about.
	Yes, I cleaned up the money.
	I cleaned up the money.
	Thank you.
	Kosh was trying to steal it all.
	So, yeah, those two books I find really interesting.
	And the Reality is Plastic I found fascinating because it kind of puts hypnosis on a spectrum.
	Right.
	That with stage hypnosis specifically, you have some people that are sort of like going along with the action.
	You know, they're hearing hypnosis and they're kind of like doing improv.
	And then there's sort of like a middle ground where you're sort of in like a dream and things make sense when you're on stage and you know where you are and you're in this sort of consensus reality, but you have this feeling where you're like, yeah, no, I am afraid of this water bottle.
	And then there's another version of like full-on hypnotherapy where you're not really in your conscious mind in any capacity.
	Yeah, fully.
	And those people come out of it.
	And they say, I have no idea what happened.
	They also have physical sensations are created by their mind, which is like the Matrix type stuff, where they've shown people where they're completely hypnotized and you'll touch them with an ice cube and they'll get a burn mark.
	They'll have a physical burn, which seems impossible because their mind creates, it's like, you know, it's like in the Matrix, and he goes, well, what happens if you die in the Matrix?
	The body cannot live without the mind.
	And they'll get a burn because they think that they're being burned with a hot poker with an ice cube.
	And it will physically show up or will be the same.
	I've seen that.
	I mean, I haven't seen it in person.
	I've seen some of the funniest things, some of the funniest shows I've ever seen in my life.
	Even Blowaway Stand-Up Comedy are really good hypnotists.
	Yeah.
	I think I was 17 and I went to Windsor.
	I lived outside of Metro Detroit.
	And this is a hypnotist that I knew.
	It was like an X-rated show.
	They let me in, and he had a guy on stage.
	I'll never forget this as long as I live.
	I was in the front row.
	The guy on stage is wearing like khakis and he's very buttoned up, you know, like a corporate guy.
	And you did not expect this from him.
	And they, he gave him, he had balloons next to him, and he kept saying, you're pregnant.
	And you're, and he kept giving different balloons to put in it.
	And he goes, oh, touch my baby.
	And he pretended to be like a pregnant woman.
	And then it kept going, kept going until he had this.
	And then he gave him bigger balloons.
	And he kept, you know, they have people in line and they do different stuff bits with everybody.
	And they keep coming back to each guy.
	Do you know what I'm saying?
	Yeah, of course.
	And so they come back to this one guy and he's finally, the baby's coming.
	Are you ready?
	And they put his legs up.
	And this guy, I'm in the front row.
	And this is my buddy doing it.
	He goes, push, push.
	And I heard this shit.
	Oh, wow.
	That's good.
	I'll never forget it as long as I live.
	And I see my buddy's face.
	And we both, and I'm not close enough to smell it, but I can definitely see there's like the pants look full.
	You know what I'm saying?
	And this is a free cell phone, man.
	I'm like, I'm like 42.
	And so this is, I didn't even have a cell phone.
	Then I asked him after the show, like a day or two later, and he's like, yo, man, that guy stayed after.
	And he was like, he was really mad.
	And he goes, why?
	He doesn't remember any of these water shots.
	One of the single top five funniest things I've ever seen in person in my entire life.
	I'll just never.
	Yeah, the hypnotism shows are there's just the noise like a wet, like pushing us.
	Why do you think that's not a bigger art form?
	I don't know why.
	I don't know why.
	Because the people that do it really, really well kill it.
	I have a buddy, Chris Jones, shout out to my buddy in Chicago, who's incredible, fellow runner.
	We're on America's Got Talent Together.
	He did a thing where he shook Howie Mandel's hand.
	Do you ever see that?
	Howie Mandel's notorious germophobe.
	Yeah.
	And he hypnotized him and he had gloves on.
	So he started shaking everybody's hands.
	Never done it before.
	He kind of looks like Drake.
	He's going to love this plug, but he's awesome.
	I've just, there's so many hypnotists I've seen.
	Oh, he hypnotized Howie.
	So that was his name to fame.
	Like he blew up.
	It went so violent because Howie won't shake anyone's hand.
	He'll fist bump.
	Yeah.
	And it's like ingrained.
	I mean, it's a phobia.
	Yeah.
	This is it.
	It's like a physical thing.
	Why does he think that the germs can't get on the outside?
	I don't have an answer to that question.
	That's like, I'll never forget when during COVID.
	You know, we had to stand.
	You used to part, but at the bank line, we'd be two feet apart.
	And I'm like, thank God the disease can't.
	Thank God it can't go horizontal.
	I don't know the logic.
	I guess because you don't touch stuff with the back of your eyes.
	Do you know the function of the disruption of a pattern?
	So, like, with a lot of hypnotism, it'll be like a handshake and then a snap.
	Yep.
	And now you're asleep.
	Yeah.
	And what is that?
	And if you just put him asleep right now, that would be oh my god.
	Tell us all the tricks.
	Yeah, open my eyes.
	I'm like, wait, wait, you're saying, well, do you know what is happening there on a tuned enough to have noticed not like my field of specialty versus I have friends that know this that could like go into major depth on this subject because they know what it, what it does and what it does.
	Some of it actually affects your brain.
	There's actually a jarring level of you move and that there's a force to it.
	The quick induction techniques like that.
	But some of it's, I think some of it's fake.
	Really?
	Some of the videos on the Graham, yes.
	Really?
	Yeah.
	Who doesn't?
	You have an incentive structure that's aligned where let's go viral together.
	Some of it's real, but I've seen some where you, you know, you almost want them to open their eye and go like give a little wink, you know?
	Right.
	But most of it's real.
	There's it when the incentive structure is not aligned, right?
	When somebody's on stage and they desperately, yeah, exactly.
	Typically not.
	Yeah.
Crowd Work and Viral Incentives 00:14:54
	Have you ever gotten a negative, like a negative reaction, specifically on a cultural level?
	I've had, so I've had things go wrong on cultural levels.
	I've had things where you guys all look that brand.
	Have you ever done a drink for a Caribbean person, like a West African person that has voodoo in the culture?
	And they're not.
	I've not done that, but I used to do a lot of stuff for the mafia.
	So I did a lot of mafia-owned restaurants.
	When I moved to New York City, when I moved to New York City, I did, I still worked at restaurants.
	I worked on Wall Street for about two and a half years, and then I was doing this as a side hustle.
	And so I worked restaurants to give out business cards and to get parties.
	But to meet, and a lot of the top Italian joints are, they were mafia owned, they were mafia run.
	So I would do parties when the guys would get out.
	It was straight sopranos, like straight up.
	Like guys get out and they have a party that they believe in.
	Some of them do, but some of them don't like the challenge.
	So right there, there's a like a like a dick measuring competition where you know something I don't know right now.
	Yeah, and you did that.
	Exactly.
	There's as if I'm challenging you.
	So that's exactly that.
	As if I just made you look stupid and I need to show my authority over you.
	And then did you have a altercations?
	I had a buddy who actually had a switchblade pulled out and he had his ponytail and it was brought back and they said, if I, if you don't tell me how you did that, I'd cut off your ponytail, which is a crazy story.
	Mine, I'm always able to get out of it because of humor.
	Like I, you know, I can rib, I can roast, I can self-deprecate and find a way out of it and misdirect.
	It's, you know, it's if you try to take it head on, you're going to lose that battle.
	Yeah.
	If you can make people move in a pattern and see what is at the core that they want, they want to not be made to look bad.
	They want to feel like they're part of it.
	And I go, you know what?
	You know how to do this stuff.
	Let me show you something right now.
	And I go, oh, you can diffuse it by saying, I know that you get it.
	You totally know how this is done.
	Let me show you how a different one's done coming.
	Let me show you.
	So you like take them out, but you don't bring them on that one.
	You show them something stupid and then they feel like they're good.
	And they're like, that was amazing, right?
	You didn't kill me.
	I'm very happy.
	How did you meet your wife?
	J Date.
	Get out of here.
	Jdate.com.
	Old school.
	How do you?
	Yeah.
	How do you like tell her?
	I had the best profile ever.
	No, I mean, old school, like, no, like, if it's not Tinder, like, we didn't even, there were no swiping back then.
	I had the best profile ever because I had quit my job and I was working, but I wasn't, I wasn't really successful yet.
	You know, this wasn't like I've been on TV.
	Yeah.
	So I go, oh, I workshop this.
	I was like, quit my job in the quit my job in finance to pursue my dream and open my own business in the entertainment industry, which sounded either like you're a porn star or I don't know what.
	It was really flowery and sounded great.
	And then when she met me, she's like, so what do you do?
	I'm like, I'm a magician.
	She's like, no, no, but seriously, what are you doing?
	I'm like, no, no, for real.
	I'm a magician.
	And then how does she grapple with it?
	Starting from like negative 20.
	Yeah.
	That's the thing.
	Like, how does a girl grapple with that?
	Like, did you have to convince her that this was going to work out?
	Were you successful at that time?
	Like, what?
	I wasn't not successful, but I was not.
	The other amazing part is I got adult braces, which is really a panty dropper by itself, but I got them off three days before I met her.
	Oh, God.
	I've literally looked at my children and you remember like in Back to the Future, where you see the photo disappear, like the photo.
	I'm like, all of you, if I had just had them on for five more days, none of you could have done this.
	She's told me straight up if you had braces on our first date.
	X Nay.
	Was there ever a part where she was like, I'm not going to date a struggling magician and start a family with that?
	She's like a venture capital firm.
	She somehow saw this.
	She, I put this in the book, like I tried to dump her, which is the stupidest mistake I ever made in my life.
	Wait, why?
	I'm just immature.
	I wasn't like, I'd been in a relationship for college sweetheart, and then I'm going to another relationship.
	And I'm like, you know, I'm in my 20s.
	I can't get locked down like this.
	Well, I had a winning lottery ticket.
	I just didn't know it.
	And she pretty much, she's smart.
	She's way smarter than me, mature.
	She's like, no.
	And she deconstructed like a mentalist why I was breaking up with her.
	I'm like, that's not right.
	Because you just wanted to get some pussy.
	Now they're the fifth.
	No, you got some excess.
	You want to wear the cape, man.
	Superman got a five.
	Yeah, complimentary.
	Chase the gazelle.
	So I was being stupid.
	And then it flipped.
	The whole dynamic flipped.
	When I was like, when she, when we didn't break up, and I was like, can you do that?
	Can you say no to a breakup?
	And then I wanted her more.
	And I'm like, can you move in with me?
	And she's like, let's slow it down.
	I'm like, whoa, she's about to dump me.
	She's just outplaying me.
	I only have two minutes.
	Yeah.
	I got two minutes.
	Your own games.
	Yeah, no tipping.
	The owner brought me in.
	That's smart.
	She probably realized that you need the chase.
	She did.
	It was very good.
	She's the brains of the operation.
	I did a trick.
	I always had like, I had my tricks.
	So I have certain tricks that I did when I was like a teenager that were designed for certain situations.
	Like I had the stoner trick.
	I had certain tricks I did when people were stoned or high.
	Like, what?
	What do you mean?
	Visuals.
	They're like things that mess you up visually.
	Okay.
	I was in, this is a great story.
	So before weed was legal in Amsterdam, are you with anybody from that era where you'd have to go to Amsterdam and smoke weed if you wanted to legally?
	It was like a fun thing that you could actually smoke in a cafe.
	It was like a thing.
	This is 20 years ago.
	So I stopped there on the way to a flight and I go into a Bulldog Cafe.
	I'll never forget this place.
	And we have been.
	Yeah.
	You know that place.
	And you can do mushrooms there.
	And so there's a table with all Americans.
	I find them.
	And one dude's on mushrooms who you can tell.
	Like you could tell.
	And then everyone else, Americans, and we smoked weed.
	I'm not a big weed guy.
	Like, I don't really like anymore, but at the time, big pothead.
	And so that's a different level of high.
	He's fully tripping balls.
	And I bring out, I do card tricks for them, but I bring out like the one that I'm going to do for this guy.
	And this is a very specific trick.
	I can't do it for you now.
	I apologize.
	Where I say to somebody, take any card out of a deck of cards.
	And he takes it.
	I would have been prepared.
	I could have done this for you.
	I just don't do it anymore.
	I don't do as much like sleight of hand.
	He holds it here.
	And let's say it's the four of hearts.
	I take the rest of the cards.
	And the only way I can describe this, because I just, again, I don't mean to tease you, is he's holding it tight with two hands.
	I go, whatever you do, don't blink and don't let me touch it.
	And I move the cards around and I go, don't blink.
	And I go like this.
	And I go back.
	And the card is now one eighth the size.
	It is shrunken.
	It is shrunken.
	I would kill.
	And so I'll never forget this guy's face.
	It's like it's so imprinted on my memory.
	He looked at the card and he kept blinking, right?
	Because you understand.
	And then he looked around at us.
	Then he looked at the card, then he put it down and then he left.
	And I had to go because I was on a layover.
	So I only hung out with these people for like two hours, but he still wasn't back.
	And I felt really bad.
	But I also was like, that was pretty much the most epic reaction of all time.
	So I'm like, I don't think he's dead.
	I like to assume he just, I don't know what he did.
	But that was.
	Do you remember what you said to that group of strangers to get them to allow you to do magic for them?
	Oh, dude, there was no, we were just Americans.
	Like in that situation, you're just like, Yeah, you're high in Amsterdam.
	It's like, yo, you have tricks?
	Yeah.
	But they probably asked me.
	But what'd you say?
	Hey, do you guys want to see a trick?
	I just was like, oh, you guys, oh, you guys are American?
	Like, I heard them talking.
	Yeah.
	And I'm like, can I hang with you guys?
	And they're like, you know, you don't want to smoke by yourself.
	It was awkward.
	That's a yes or no question.
	Which one?
	Can I hang with you guys?
	Yeah, I was in.
	I was in.
	Yeah, he was feeling it.
	Tell me your dream is a seven-year-old.
	No, that's getting out of the psycho and creepy.
	No, it was, it was just a vibe.
	It was very fun.
	Very fun day.
	And I'll never forget that.
	Is there any just card trick that you could do?
	I know you've done the big ending, but is there any card trick?
	I'll go back from a, from this, I'll do a card trick offline, but I can't.
	The card trick's not going to compare to Fanta, LGR, and Flame Raster.
	I can't go from the closer to just lackluster.
	No, but there's different.
	What's up?
	So you said you did some prep.
	Can you tell us things about us that help you perform tricks on us?
	Like maybe something you notice he does, something you notice I do.
	Can you divulge that?
	Or you like to keep those in?
	It's not, I can't quantify it out loud, right?
	A lot of it's on a feel basis.
	A lot of it is if I can get to a place early and meet people and see what I'm going to do, but I can come in here and do this podcast fresh.
	We could have walked in the door and I literally come from being outside, pouring rain, even though I had to dry off when I got here.
	We were both soaked.
	And so having 10 minutes to decompress, say hello, shake hands, kind of feel people out is helpful.
	But when I go on stage for hundreds and thousands of people, I can't meet anybody.
	It's not possible.
	So at that point, you're doing a lot of the cold reading in the moment.
	Got it.
	And so a lot of the secret sauce when I walk out in the crowd is it's kind of like crowd work.
	Crowd work is you see someone, you're going to see what's funny about them and then see what you can get from them.
	Mine is a version of crowd work, but my crowd work is going to be like, it's a puzzle.
	It's a puzzle.
	How do I turn it this way, this way, this way?
	And then unlock what they're going to think.
	And I like going to the person who's going to sometimes give me the over-the-top crazy reaction.
	I sometimes like the quiet, oh my God, slowly and then explode and freak out.
	Like there's going to be all different kinds of laughs, all different kinds of amazement, and I can calibrate pretty well.
	What kills me is when I get something wrong in a show and I don't know why I got it wrong.
	So you said get it wrong.
	Sometimes I get something wrong, but I figured out what happened so I can kind of get out of it.
	But I've gotten stuff wrong where I don't know what happened.
	I really give me an example.
	I did a show for, I'm not going to say the client because they're probably going to hire me again, but a very large payroll provider, the biggest one.
	I opened for Alicia Keys.
	And it was awesome.
	Great show.
	She does a great show in like Hollywood.
	I think it's a Hollywood bowl or somewhere.
	I don't know, several thousand people.
	And I know what this guy was thinking.
	Do you understand?
	I can tell you for a fact.
	I understand it, everything about it.
	I knew what he picked.
	I knew what he was thinking of in this moment.
	I would have bet my life on it.
	And yet he insisted 100% that that's not it.
	And so what are you going to do?
	Right.
	Because the show is at the end of the day, is, I mean, if he would have the piece of paper, I could have showed you that he wrote down the word fart.
	So we could have pieced it together.
	But what if, what if he didn't?
	What if I didn't?
	And the other word is in the book.
	How could we even know that?
	What if he just said no?
	That's not the word.
	It's not the word.
	It's not tourists.
	It's not this.
	What could I do?
	Right.
	But I can normally tell who's going to lie, who's going to be a stick in the mud, who's opposite.
	I completely misjudged this guy.
	It's like if you were dating somebody and you found out they were a serial killer, you're like, I can't believe I missed all that.
	I couldn't understand how it went wrong.
	And then I'm like flop, sweating, trying to reconstruct it.
	And then sometimes I dig in.
	That's the worst.
	If you dig in, it's like crowd work to somebody who's not responding and keep trying to get it.
	And then you should just let go.
	Yeah.
	At that point.
	Sometimes fuck them.
	Oh, sometimes fuck them.
	But then it's fuck you, though, because now you're digging in the audience.
	The audience against you.
	Yeah, I can't like light the ship on fire.
	This isn't like a Mark Marin.
	Like, I'm just going to F, you know, I've seen him go in the audience and just like let it go.
	I love that.
	There's some element of that that you enjoy.
	But for me, I have to be kind of likable or it makes it so that I can't do the rest of the stuff.
	So did you figure out where you messed up with it?
	I never figured it out.
	To this day, are you kind of confused about it?
	Confused.
	You think he just lied?
	I don't know if he had a psychotic break.
	I don't know.
	I can't explain.
	I mean, it must make you hand-shy going into the effect another time.
	So that's what's nerve-wracking.
	Because if you go on TV, I did one before the Super Bowl one time and like before the Super Bowl, I had coach Rex Ryan use a stopwatch.
	How do you tell the coach, like, can you practice?
	Do you know how to use stopwatch?
	He goes, Yeah, of course I know how to.
	I'm like, just make sure you know how.
	And he was supposed to time something.
	We did.
	It was a big part of it was to time it.
	And he fat-fingered it.
	So when he hit it, he hit it twice.
	So we did all the stuff.
	I'm like, how much time was he going?
	Oh, it's at one second.
	I think I hit it twice.
	I'm like, what the fuck?
	So what do you do?
	So you have to think really quick on your feet with tens of millions of people watching.
	And I pulled it out, but I didn't think it was great.
	It was suboptimal.
	It was like a plan B, but I always plan for everything that can go wrong.
	And I never thought that an NFL coach would not use the timer correctly.
	Former NFL coach.
	That's true.
	That's true.
	I don't blame him twice.
	I don't blame him.
	It's not his fault, but man, oh man, did it throw me under the bus?
	Did it ruin the trick?
	No, it just ruined a phase.
	Got it.
	So again, I tried to sweep that under the rug real quick, focus on the other stuff.
	But people are like, somebody are like, well, what happened to the timer?
	It's like, okay, for that final reveal right there, what if they all chose?
	What if he chose L, he chose L, and he chose G?
	That could have very real happened.
	I didn't know what happened.
	What would you have done?
	Wouldn't it work?
	That's the whole beauty of it.
	You never know what I'm saying.
	He primes me to pick an L.
	He knows I'm here.
	He primes him to pick a G, he primes him.
	How?
	I don't know.
	Has anything ever gone wrong in a public setting and one of your mentalist friends hits you on the side and goes, yo, I saw like good save and no one else picked it up.
	But that's it.
	That's super.
	Well, I have some people that work on shows that are like an assistant that's not really doing anything, but that's watching, like a video person who if I had like a residency for two years, who's seen the show a hundred times.
	Like my wife back in the day would see the show.
	And so once she's seen the show enough, she can tell the rhythms and she can see when something goes wrong.
	She doesn't watch my show anymore ever, but she used to.
	And so isn't it funny how tired of it they guess?
	Oh my God.
	Especially when you pretend like something just happened off the cuff.
	And you're like, oh, and you're like, oh, no, I know that that's a bit you do every time.
	I asked my wife recently to come if you want to come to the show.
	She goes, literally, I would rather do anything else in the world.
	Yeah, she's crying.
	Also, she knows it.
	She's seen it a thousand times.
	You know what I mean?
	I spoke to a magician friend and I asked if he knew another person that was a little bit farther along in their career.
	And he goes, oh, I actually helped with his show.
	Oh, yeah.
	And I was like, what does that mean?
	He's like, you know, I just helped out.
	Are you able to inform me a little more?
	What does that mean when a younger magician helps out with a bigger magician's show?
	Because he wants to do that.
	Is this an interview right now that we're looking for a job?
	The internal dynamics of comedians is very obvious to me because I've been in the game so long.
	But for magician, how does it work?
	Like he would see someone's effect and say, oh, you should actually add this to tighten it.
	For sure.
	Just like that.
	You would look punch up the effect, structure it differently, kind of all the things surrounding it.
	So I'm a big presentation-based guy.
	So when I go on, like I was on ESPN this morning and I go on and the whole thing was themed around the fact that it's the NBA playoffs.
	It's the finals.
	I'm not going to go on ESPN and do, no offense, like a trick about Fanta and Scrabble Tiles.
	It doesn't make sense.
	This came together for you.
	It was a custom design piece.
	It makes it interesting, right?
	And stuff that's a little more risque in this room versus if I go for a corporate.
	So I would watch and see what's the story you're telling.
	Because most people that do what I do, and the reason that they can't really get to a certain point is because their end of their show is always look at me and what I can do.
	Yeah, it's not about the player.
	It's not about the audience.
	So when you make it about the audience, you can expand your reach.
	That's why, like, I've been on CNBC several dozen times.
	Nobody ever, no other magician or mentalist ever has been on that network.
	How can that be?
	It's like one of those crazy things.
	It doesn't make sense.
	You'd always think there'd be outliers.
	It's not just because I worked on Wall Street.
	There's other mentalists who've worked on Wall Street.
	How long did you prepare your Joe Rogan trick, the envelope?
	And then how long do you prepare this flagrant thing?
	Ooh, is this like to decide which love you saw?
	The Rogan has been in the back of my head for several years because I have been assessing Joe and I also listened to that podcast for a really long time.
	Big into the alien stuff.
	I listened to you guys for a while too, for the record, but it was more of a what would I do with Joe if I got in that room?
Open Ended Hooks for Joe Rogan 00:11:04
	Also, this is so much easier because there's four of you.
	Yeah.
	One-on-one is brutal.
	Yeah.
	It's brutal.
	Nothing to play off of.
	There's no nothing to play off of.
	There's no, it's a stone wall.
	You can't distract you.
	You can't, there's no setup.
	There's no, like, I got there and there was zero.
	You can't do anything.
	It's like, we got in there, get in the studio.
	Like, you know, so I mean, not in a bad way.
	I'm not saying it was mean.
	It was just there's no real, there's no foreplay.
	Yes.
	So you can't really learn a lot beforehand.
	Very little.
	My interaction with Joe was minuscule before we were on air.
	But the idea about the ATM pin code happened potentially years ago.
	Yeah, I do that a lot, though.
	The ATM pin.
	Oh, okay.
	I explained to him how to.
	Maybe he gives him an envelope at the beginning of the day.
	I saw the eclipse.
	The 14 is crazy.
	He doesn't believe that he gave anything away by what he said.
	And it was, I didn't want to be confrontational.
	I'm like, that's what I do.
	I reverse engineer.
	So in a lot of instances, you're like, you couldn't reverse engineer.
	I'm like, yeah, you could, though.
	Because if I suddenly told you how many six letter names are there, that could be for a female, but that could also be for a boy, because he was confused when I said, look up how popular this name is.
	And he goes, well, it could go, oh, it could go either way.
	Now there's a much limited set of names that could be, is it Pat?
	Is it Patty?
	Is it like, there's all different ways.
	And now, once I knew R and D, which he doesn't believe, but I knew the D, I figured out the R six letters.
	If you literally put it in a computer, there's six names at that point.
	And now you could stack which ones are the most popular.
	How do I do it?
	People don't believe it, but I figure things out.
	It's not a psychic power.
	Can you turn this off?
	I usually don't have it on.
	It takes okay.
	Let's say hypothetically, you have five kids.
	You ask your oldest, like, oh, did you brush your teeth?
	Yeah.
	And they lie.
	Oh, I know if they're lying.
	Easy.
	And then do you point it out?
	Yeah.
	Oh, yeah.
	Oh, okay.
	So it's always.
	I think most parents know that.
	Yeah.
	Can't you tell?
	You can tell their rhythms.
	You can benchmark people pretty easy.
	That's like part of my book is how do you, because the best way to analyze is I can't just right now say, all right, tell me everything.
	Tell me how you do it.
	You can't because you have to compare people to themselves, not to other people.
	Anyone who tells you otherwise goes, NLP, you look up here.
	This does this.
	This is, it's flowery.
	It's not true.
	It's the same with a lot of body language reading.
	Yes, there's patterns, but once you know how it works, you need to compare people to themselves.
	Do you understand?
	It's the same way that blood doping.
	That's your baseline.
	You have a baseline.
	You have to have a baseline.
	And the more time you're around people, that's why I told you the Rogan was hard.
	I wasn't around him that much.
	And I needed to hook people in because that's a long podcast where I felt like if I don't do something cool at the beginning, people go, I don't know who this guy is.
	Boom.
	Next, next.
	So I need to hook you in instantly and have you stay around till the end.
	Your new book, Read Your Mind, comes out October 28th.
	Damn.
	Are you reading my mind?
	Yes.
	Can you pre-order it now?
	Is that available for pre-order?
	And then is it your website?
	What is the best place?
	Okay.
	It's Ozel.
	Mine looks like, it looks like Oz.
	It should be Oz.
	It's Oz.
	OzPerlman.com.
	So it's OZPEARL M-A-N.com.
	But everything go on social.
	It's at OZ The Mentalist.
	That's where all my stuff is.
	The book itself.
	Is it?
	Obviously, you're not divulging this information.
	Are you showcasing how it can be helpful for you in your life?
	I call it Proven Habits for Success.
	So it's more self-help if you're not.
	This is if you were to take that book, How to Win Friends and Influence People, which is honestly one of the best books I've ever read in my life.
	And I'm not saying that book is dated.
	It's terrific.
	Everything it does still stands to this day.
	But if you put that through the lens of somebody whose entire job is to read people for a living and see what tactical advantages I can give you on how to supercharge your memory, memory is one of those things where you don't realize how much of what I'm doing right now relies on memory and awareness of things and remembering them.
	And honestly, in my life, people give me credit for reading their minds and half the time it's purely memory.
	I just know a lot of stuff.
	What is that thing called?
	It's like the memory palace or something like that.
	What is that term?
	You're something where you build stories.
	I don't know if that's what it is.
	Memory palace, like moving through a physical space and then ascribing different ideas to rooms in order to memorize them.
	So you can do that.
	Is that what you're doing or not?
	No, my stuff is that's so much more complex.
	I like to dumb it down.
	The whole book is techniques you will master in 10 minutes and still be doing in 10 years.
	Like anything, oh, I got to do this.
	I got to do that.
	I got to journal.
	Screw that.
	I want things that are easy, compact, that you can do, not like hear about and not do.
	What's a thing that we can supercharge ourselves?
	I'll tell you right now.
	So memory, one of the big ones, this is a good one for people in day-to-day life.
	You meet a lot of people, right?
	You all meet a lot of people in your industry.
	How often have you met somebody and three seconds later, you don't know their name?
	99% of the time.
	Right?
	And so it's very awkward.
	In many instances, you can avoid it and be like, oh, my guy, my guy, right?
	Or you try to find somebody near to like introduce, be like, oh, this is Andrew.
	And you're like, nice to meet you.
	You're like, nice to meet you.
	So that I can make disappear forever.
	Disappear forever.
	So I did this in a TED talk and I explained it this way.
	You want a hook.
	You want something you're going to remember.
	The back of every bottle of shampoo says three words.
	Lather, rinse, repeat.
	Have you heard that?
	Lather, rinse, repeat.
	Lather, rinse, repeat.
	Here's what I call it.
	I call it listen, repeat, reply.
	Remember that.
	Listen, repeat, reply.
	The first reason that you are not remembering someone's name has nothing to do with memory.
	You never knew it to begin with.
	You're not even listening.
	You never knew how to get the handshake right.
	So you got to get the handshake right.
	That's key.
	If you miss web to web, well, it's fucking done.
	And you've got an L written on your hand right now.
	There's a woman's hand.
	It's just a whole fucking.
	There are short fingers, but you have other good attributes, Akash.
	Don't put yourself down.
	Is that you need to listen to the name?
	The number one thing I can take away is 95% of the time, if you make your mind a blank, right when you look at them and you take the name, you instantly repeat it.
	Listen, repeat.
	So I go, Alex, is that Alex?
	It's so funny.
	So right away, I say the name twice more.
	And if you can, at that point, Alex, great to meet you, Alex.
	You say it twice, your chances right away of forgetting it have already gone down by about 90%.
	Wow.
	So right away.
	And if it's, if you can, listen, make your mind a blank.
	Do not think about what you're going to say next.
	That's what everybody does.
	Oh, you're jarred.
	Listen, repeat the name at least twice, and then reply.
	Reply is some sort of hook.
	So one of the big ones is a compliment.
	Be like, Alex, man, I love that necklace.
	Alex, where'd you get that necklace?
	You say it two more times, and now you've connected it with something physical.
	Alex with the necklace.
	Now, I'm not trying to remember your name for days, but I will remember you for the next 10 or 15 minutes.
	Another good one, compliment is one.
	How do you spell it?
	Akash.
	Is it A-K-A-S-H or double-A in the middle?
	Akash.
	I don't know a lot of Akashas that spell it that way.
	Now I've got the spelling.
	Or the third one is you create some sort of connection where I'm like, Mark, dude, that's so funny, man.
	My sister's husband's name, Mark.
	That's so hilarious.
	And I go, my sister's husband is not named Mark.
	A liar.
	But now I'm going to remember you.
	You do something, and this is a trick that you, I've shown it to people for years.
	And if you just try this today with somebody, you'll see right away, you don't forget their name.
	You will remember their name for the next at least 10, 15 minutes, typically for the next few hours.
	And that will get you out of that social situation.
	Gets you out of that situation.
	And then a lot of other tricks on how to read people effectively, how to time things, how in those situations, same way in a restaurant, how I learned to know what people are thinking and use it to your advantage.
	How do you do that at home?
	How do you do that in relationships?
	Yeah.
	I'm so curious with this like opening statement.
	The opening statement.
	I think that's massive.
	Do you talk a lot about that?
	I think that's so interesting.
	I think that's great for just socialization in general and like building momentum in a social environment.
	I think a lot of people can get crippled.
	I remember just being younger, you're going out for the first time.
	If I walked up to a girl with when I first walked into a bar, even if it didn't go well, I just got the monkey off my back.
	Yep, it was so much easier for me to socialize.
	But if I just held up the wall for about 15, 20 minutes, you're locked in that you're frozen.
	Exactly.
	Yeah.
	So it's like building that social momentum is so crucial.
	And just having little tricks of the trade to help with that.
	Wow, that's really great.
	I like that idea of not imposing yourself on a group of people, not only through body language, but even the way that you're talking and not creating these like yes or no questions.
	What was it?
	Was it open?
	Open-ended.
	Something that can be.
	And giving value.
	What was it?
	It was like dopamine, curiosity, and open-ended, right?
	Right.
	Can you give another example just in life?
	It doesn't have to be with magic trick.
	It's like, what would be you're walking up to, you see a group of us in a park or something like that.
	You just kind of in a new country, you want to say hi, maybe meet some friends.
	What would you say?
	So you mean just an opening line change?
	I know you're reading people in the moment, obviously.
	I don't know.
	For social situations, I always like to point out the obvious.
	So if you're in a situation, think about this.
	Why is it that if you're in an elevator, right?
	Especially if you're in Manhattan, you'll never talk to anyone.
	Nope.
	But if that elevator gets stuck, we're chatting.
	You're best friends, right?
	Everybody knows that.
	Why is that?
	Or you're in a subway.
	Why is there this release that when everyone's in a situation together, we now open up socially, right?
	There's some sort of thing that changes in us.
	Why didn't we say that before?
	Is it because of the time limit?
	It's because we were only going to spend 20 seconds in the elevator and now we might be in there for two minutes.
	And we're like, oh man, can you believe this crap?
	Oh, where is your like?
	You open up to those people.
	There's something about it.
	So I think there's something to be said where if I've been in a lot of parent environments with other parents at school, and it's like, you don't know these people.
	What are you really going to say to them?
	And I think you just go in there and rather than do the regular small talk, oh, what's your kid?
	What's your this?
	What like I, if you can say something that nobody's really thought of about the school and been like, I absolutely love this about the school.
	How do you feel about that?
	And it gives you something to run with and it's positive.
	I try to go with positive energy rather than negative energy because I don't, that's typically what I do.
	I try to point out positive things and give open-ended to see if they agree.
	And if they don't, well, we have some fun riffing there too.
	Right.
	Right.
	That's what I've done rather than just, hey, what's your name?
	Where do you work?
	What do you do?
	Like, I don't want because I don't want to ask.
	Then they ask me what I do and I don't want to go down that path.
	I try to avoid as much as possible.
	I can see that.
	Yeah, I've heard that asking really finite questions is challenging for people, and that asking open-ended or time-based questions is actually more helpful.
	So instead of asking you, what's your favorite movie?
	Right.
	Saying, what are some movies you like?
	Or what is the most recent movie you've seen?
	Yep.
	It's typically easier for someone to answer and like creates more lubrication socially.
	That's a time-based question.
	Like, what is the most important thing?
	Yeah, what's the first movie that made a big impression on you?
	That's a good one.
	And so it can create a little bit like less apprehension where it's like your favorite movie.
	You're just sitting there like, oh, man, I don't know.
	And then it creates like a kind of like a stall barrier a little bit.
	What if you're starting a show?
	What would you, what would your opening line be when you start a show?
	My opening line is pretty much acknowledging the fact, the obvious statement between me and the audience, which they'll see my sizzle reel, my hype reel.
	And I go, I see it.
	And you know what?
	I'm calling BS.
	Like, I just want to, everyone in the audience sees this.
	And what do you think?
	There's no way this is right, right?
	I can't read minds.
	And that's why I say, I can't read minds.
Breaking the Fourth Wall 00:01:22
	I read people.
	That's what you said.
	Like, if you're going to have all this flowery language, you're not going to break the fourth wall.
	I'm going to break the fourth wall and say to you, I learned how to do this.
	I've trained myself for years.
	This is a skill, not some sort of ethereal gift.
	Light didn't shine upon me.
	I've taken a set of skills and I've developed them, and a lot of them are transferable to other people.
	And it's kind of like music.
	Some people are incredible at playing the guitar or the piano.
	They have an innate gift, but it's not supernatural.
	Jimi Hendrix could do that.
	So the same thing applies where people could do what I'm doing, but most of them won't put in the time, get through the hard bumps because I wasn't as good years ago.
	I can assure you, if you would have seen it, things would have gone wrong.
	And like, it's really tough to get over when you screw up a lot.
	Yeah.
	That's why there's less mentalists.
	There's more magicians because of exactly that reason.
	He can tell you magic tricks, if you practice them endlessly, they typically work.
	You can perfect them on your own.
	Mentalism, what I just did for you, like the thing with the flagrant that said, I've never done before.
	I've never, ever done that before, and I will never do it again.
	So all of it was thought out in advance and it wasn't really practiced on anybody.
	I just practiced it in my mind over and over and over.
	Thank you so much, brother.
	That was amazing.
	Go check out his new book.
	Thank you so much.
	Coming out.
	Go pre-order right now.
	Read Your Mind comes out October 28th.
	Thank you so much, brother.
	Thanks for having me.
	Thanks for the flagrants.
	Great, dude.
	Thank you so much, bro.
	A blast.
	This is awesome.

Chapters

00:00:00 Guessing People and Show and Tell
00:14:21 Fourth Grade Soccer Stories
00:24:19 Creative Tricks and Execution
00:38:19 Insurance Industry Secrets
00:41:15 Morgan Morgan Takes on Big Corps
00:56:25 One Digit at a Time
01:02:50 Reading Opponents Like Books
01:07:17 Harden Flop vs Nice Guy
01:22:58 Staged Moments and Market Moves
01:32:11 Engineered Memories and Coffee Breaks
01:34:40 Scientists, Therapy, and Visa Papers
01:41:49 Lucid Dreams and Monkey Costumes
01:47:02 Reality Is Plastic and Mushrooms
01:52:27 Crowd Work and Viral Incentives
02:07:21 Open Ended Hooks for Joe Rogan
02:18:25 Breaking the Fourth Wall