Casey Neistat recounts his rise from selling marijuana out of a Connecticut bedroom window to founding Beam, which CNN acquired for $25 million. He contrasts his early rule-breaking agency with the trauma of 9/11, explaining how he stayed in New York to embrace its chaotic muse over societal safety. While reflecting on the repetitive grind of daily vlogging and the shifting landscape of Chinatown, Neistat ultimately expresses sadness that today's YouTube prioritizes metrics and sensationalism over the authentic, process-driven storytelling that defined his early viral success. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Rocket Launcher Stencil Video00:14:30
So today's the day finally doing the flagrant podcast pretty excited about you guys doing Casey!
Hey Casey, we're trying to vlog.
What's up, man?
Yeah.
Where'd you get my jacket from?
Oh, dude, I got this great feet pick website.
Is that where you got it?
What's up, everybody, and welcome to Flickr.
Today we are joined by one of the most prolific creators, I would say, in history.
And one of the worst drivers, I would also say, in history.
We have Casey May.
We're okay.
Okay.
Now, Casey, I called your brother last night, Dean.
And I was like, hey, Dean, do you have any like funny stories about Casey that we could bring up, blah, blah, blah?
No, no, first of all, the worst person to call.
Your military.
He's very...
Do the kids a square.
I mean, he wouldn't give me anything.
You know, he has top secret clearance within the U.S. military.
I realized on the call.
I was like, what's a wild thing that happened?
He goes, we went to Prague once, we got drunk, we slept outside.
That's all I can tell you.
I was like, okay.
And then he goes, I can tell you this.
He says, Casey has crashed every single car he's ever had.
That's true.
Is that true?
Absolutely true.
He tells me this really sad story.
He goes, I remember once, before I even had my license, my parents bought me a Hyundai Lantra.
He goes, they put a red bow on it and everything.
That's awesome.
He goes, in 87.
He goes, and Casey crashed his car.
So what did my parents do?
They gave him my red boat Hyundai Elantra.
And what did Casey do with that?
Totaled it.
He totaled it.
He totaled it?
Yeah, that was the worst accident I think I've ever had.
How did that happen?
I was on the freeway with our older brother, Van.
And I don't know, like something, you know, you're like 16, you know, paying attention.
By the way, that is the least safe car that's ever been made.
Oh, it's the car, right?
Yeah, The car in front of me jammed on the brakes.
Something happened.
We smashed into it, spun around in the freeway.
I just remember looking up and there was a tractor trailer truck coming straight towards me.
Holy shit.
And on the freeway, I threw it in reverse and just hit the gas like that.
So we're going backwards on the freeway going like, you know, 55.
And then I cut the wheel and we just spun and hit a guardrail and zoomed backwards.
That's where we finally came to a stop and like windshield smashed in, doors are smashed, glass everywhere.
I turned to my brother Van and I was like, what were we just talking about?
And he was like, you know, I hate that.
Yeah.
When you get interrupted in a combo by a headphone.
We had no money.
Like we couldn't afford to dispose of the car.
So the flatbed just dropped it off like in the apartment complex where we lived and it just sat there.
Like this destroyed wrecked vehicle.
Just totally moved.
Yeah.
They brought you your absolutely destroyed car.
Because they were going to charge us to keep it.
Yeah, if I remember that vivid.
I remember when we went surfing.
This is before that I've ever met you, right?
Obviously very familiar with everything you've done to change the way that people make content.
But I go, I'm curious what this guy's going to be.
Is he going to be like a version of the guy I've seen in the...
I would argue that in the vlogs, it's a tamed down version of the chaos that ensues when you're creating something.
Yeah, I got to edit out.
I got to diffuse the, I can't scare off the audience.
It was, I mean, I don't think you stopped.
You were like, Schultz, what's up?
Let's go upstairs.
Go upstairs.
Calm down.
Surfboards, wetsuits, come downstairs.
I look at the car.
There's scratches on both sides of the car, right?
Like, it looked like something that Taliban drives, right?
Like, it looked like it had been on it with the fucking rocket launcher and everything.
It was ready to go.
And literally, and I remember us driving.
As you're driving, you're vlogging.
You're giving Miles instructions to vlog.
You're pointing at things.
I don't think you look straight out the window the entire time.
You know, I drive, I can afford safer cars now.
So it has like a thing.
If you're about to hit someone, it stops it for you.
Oh, wow.
Yeah, it gives you a lot of latitude.
It's a driver.
What about someone that just dies?
You can have someone drive.
Yeah, someone that stops for you.
Yeah, make sure that vlog while you're driving.
She's not going to not do that.
But you cannot drive.
That car is a brand new, it's like a 2022 or 2023 Land Rover.
And it has like, you know, it doesn't have many miles on it or whatever.
It's a Land Rover what?
Defender.
It's been defended.
It's been defended.
Yeah, I couldn't, it had to go to Land Rover of Manhattan on a flatbed because it wouldn't start.
And after they worked on it for like a week, they're like, this is the most fucked up defender we've seen in the car's only been out for a year.
We have not seen one this fucked up.
That got it back in the day that still runs.
Yes.
Well, that's impressive for a 2022 $100,000.
Yeah, $2,000.
It's got 4,000 miles on it.
Still running.
It's amazing.
That's terrible driver.
Dude, I'm stoked that you're here.
And I've been obviously brushing up on a lot of your content.
You guys have like fucking fancy wristwatches.
Yeah.
There's like gold.
No, no, no.
I'm looking at that.
No, that's the base model Apple Watch.
What do you mean?
What is this?
It's a base model, dude.
This watch is $17.
I got your V on that.
It's got a 10-year battery.
Ooh.
It's got a light.
He's got a real problem with the battery life.
No lights.
No light.
No light.
It's just intimidating.
We have light.
Okay, cool.
Yeah.
You feel intimidated by the fancy watches?
Yeah.
I didn't think there was anything that would intimidate Casey Neistat.
How do you know?
How do you know?
Anyway, you were saying awesome stuff about me.
Yeah, we're going to, you know, more things about you just so we can fluff it.
I remember watching this vlog that you put out where you asked ChatGPT to curate the dialogue.
Do you know that like a bunch?
Yeah, so what the video was, is I wrote to Chat GPT for the latest, which you have to pay like $9 a month.
Yeah, get your credit stuff, dude.
$9 a month for God.
I know.
How dare they?
And the product was like, write a Casey Neistat vlog.
And then I just made that vlog exactly as it said to make it.
And it was like funny, and it was meant to be funny and silly because it was so basic.
It's like the script was really silly.
But like the AI folks, like the real hardcore AI people on Twitter, were like super fucking angry at me.
Why?
Why?
Because they're like, had you worked harder?
Had you trained that AI?
Yeah.
Had you put real effort into this?
You could have really shown what its true potential is.
And it could have better mimicked your creativity.
And I was like, that's not the fucking point, you fucking idiot.
You're like, no one knows what the fuck you're talking about.
Everyone's an idiot like me.
I don't know how to use this thing.
It's brand new.
It's been out for like a month.
Like, you give it a basic prompt, then what it gives you back, like, that was the interestingness for me.
Yeah.
Was not how good you could make it, but it was like at first glance.
Like, remember Google, like 2001, where just like, it was amazing.
Yeah.
And this was kind of amazing.
Yeah, it was meant to be playful.
There were two things in it that I thought were brilliant.
One was you saying afterwards the importance of soul and like heart in content.
And that's the thing that we connect to.
And the fact is that AI, it can't even really mimic that yet.
And you were like, maybe if I gave it more prompts, it could mimic like heart and soul and like passion.
But that's kind of what separates a great piece of work.
But the other thing that I liked is it looked at every single one of your vlogs, right?
And one of the things that I've always loved about your content is there's not bitterness in it.
You're not fucking bitter.
When you're angry about something, you make fun of it.
Yeah.
When you're angry about the bike ticket, you don't go, fuck the police.
This is why this city's falling apart.
And which is like the easiest, lowest form of content is just to be like, this sucks.
Everybody sucks.
I know how the world works.
You all suck.
Everybody's worked to me.
Instead, you just prove how absurd it is to give somebody a bike ticket when they're not in the bike lane.
That might be your most impressive vlog because the amount of times you fell off the bike and how old were you with that?
I was not a young man.
I was like, when you're falling off anything right now, I'm like, I might not ever get up.
No, that might be it.
You're just throwing yourself off a bicycle on a car.
I knew when we were shooting that, it was like how committed the falls were.
Was he going to sell that video?
No helmet was crazy also.
Because you know you're going to fucking take it on the chin, man.
I was trying to make a great video.
But look, I think that there's like, it's not interesting watching people bitch or complain or be mad.
Like it's not.
It's not fun.
Yep.
But everybody's mad and frustrated about everything all the time.
So if you can sort of tap into that, like the first video I ever made that was seen, the iPod, the iPod video.
My brother Van and I made this in 2003.
It was three years before YouTube was a thing.
And my iPad, I was fucking broke.
I had no money to my name.
This thing was $399.
It was a gift.
Yeah.
And the battery died a year later.
And I called Apple and they're like, nah, just buy a new one.
So I called them back and I recorded the call where they're like, just buy a new one.
And I was like, okay.
And I was like, fuck, that's great audio.
And then they had those posters where it's like the black silhouette or the white silhouette where you'd see the cord and it was like color.
And we put like cigarette disclaimers on every poster with a spray paint stencil that said iPad's iPod's irreplaceable battery lasts only 18 months.
And we put it on a splash page.
Like we made it iPod30Secret.com because there's no YouTube.
And it went so viral so quickly.
And by the way, in 2003, viral means you copy the URL, you put it in an email, you type in friends' names, you click send.
There's no YouTube.
There's no Twitter.
There's no Instagram.
And like it was so blew up so quickly that the head of the hosting company called my cell phone and he's like, I want you to know we have not pulled your site yet, but your monthly allowance is 10 gigabytes of bandwidth.
And right now you're at like four terabytes.
Oh, wow.
So many people have gone to this.
Yes.
Especially in 2003.
Yeah.
So I like posted on the side.
I was like, we need help hosting this.
And I think it was like maybe a couple universities were like, we'll put it on our university servers.
You're good.
And then it was like slowing them down.
And it just kept like we could not find a place to sustain it.
And then this is such a fun story.
And then we figured out the time, like now you've got iCloud, but back then you had something that was called iDisk.
And you could have like an Apple hosted website to share like baby videos and stuff.
There was no bandwidth limitations.
So Apple hosted the video in the end.
Yeah.
It was like $13 a month or something.
Oh, that's funny.
About it.
Yeah.
And then they changed the policy.
They did.
But if it was just a video of me bitching, I don't think anybody would have cared.
It was fun.
It was funny.
Yeah.
And the style in which you did it, it carried through.
Like, did you?
I'm curious your process in creating that.
Did you know what you were doing with the stencil and all the yeah, I mean, that video, that one in particular, like much credit to my brother Van.
Like everything I have ever known or learned or done that's creative is like all credit goes to my older brother Van.
Like he taught me everything I know.
I'm just like a very mediocre photocopy of his like truly virtuous creative brilliance.
And like that video in particular, like that video was mostly his idea.
Like I edited it and I put the like easy E track under it and like did all of that.
But like the idea of like, let's cut out a stencil, like the stencil scene, those are his hands, not even mine.
Yeah, like all credit to Van Neistat.
Yeah.
Like total fucking genius.
Such a unique way to tell a story even now.
And this is, well, y'all are, you're 22.
I don't know how old Van is, but that's 20 years ago, literally.
It's wild.
And that style was, even now, you're like, bro, that's a great, that's unique.
You know, the 20-year-ago thing.
So like, I had the daily vlog started in 2015, I think.
Yeah.
And I was cognizant of this when I was making it, but it's like, I have a daily record of my life.
It's like pretty well produced.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
Of my whole life.
And I was like, someday I'm going to look back at this.
Yeah.
And it's going to be interesting, but I've always been so close to it.
Then last week when Elon's rocket fucking exploded or whatever, my buddy texted me.
He's like, we got to go see it next time.
Have you ever seen a like a rocket?
Have you guys ever seen a fucking rocket?
You have.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I grew up in Florida.
So it's life-changing.
Yeah, it's crazy.
Like, when you're looking at it, there's a fucking human in there.
Yeah.
And I went for the last space shuttle blast off ever.
It was like a dream of mine.
I grabbed my girlfriend.
We drove down there like a Winnebago.
We watched it in 2013.
Yeah.
And I made a movie.
It was like the trip where I fell in love with her.
And like, we're like married now with a bunch of kids and stuff.
But I was like playing that back, just trying to find the scene where the rocket blasts off for that moment.
And like, I watched the whole like 10 minute movie, like sitting there crying.
It's like, we're like dating, we're like young.
And I was like, oh, shit, that thing where I look back at it and I'm able to see my life in such like such a vivid portrayal.
Like that's happened.
It's like having a wedding video for every single day.
Yeah, for sure.
Instead of it being just like a fucking terrible wedding video.
It's like an interesting reminder of the happiest day of your life.
There's a video you put out recently that I was watching.
I thought it was very good, very introspective.
And what something you struggle with, which was the inauthenticity of living through a vlog.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And how that kind of pulled at you at the end of those 800 days where you're like, am I ever present or am I always thinking about the video?
And one thing that I thought really separated you from the other people who copied you was, well, one story, but we can get to that later.
You actually understand story.
But also authenticity.
You are incredibly comfortable talking to a camera.
It feels like you're talking to me and I do not like doing that shit.
I hate it.
I don't know.
For some reason, I don't connect it to it.
I don't know what the fuck it is.
But when do you start to feel yourself almost doing, is it an impression of yourself?
Why do you feel inauthentic?
I don't know.
Like the vlog particularly, uniquely, was it was about my life.
The Cost of Sensationalism00:15:15
So like every day I would just sort of pull interestingness from my life.
And if you start to examine your life from like a third person perspective, it's really interesting for a while.
Like the place where you go, I don't mean I live a particularly interesting life.
I just mean like I go to this place and get a smoothie.
I know the owner.
We say what's up.
Like I know I've got friends.
It's like it's interesting to get to see some, but like that works for like a couple days.
You know, you're like, all right, okay.
Like the next 797 days, you got to come up with something fresh.
And like, so like that starts to fade and you start to feel it being repetitive and you get insecure.
And those sort of like, those very introspective insecurities really start to build over time.
So then you start to seek interestingness elsewhere.
And I think this is like, this is why we've seen the rise and fall of so many YouTubers.
It's like, okay, I need to be more interesting.
Like let me rush towards sensationalism.
Like, you know, it's interesting a car accident.
You know, it's interesting, like anything extreme.
Like that's it.
So let me rush towards that.
I never wanted to do that ever.
Like none of that.
I did not want to seek sensationalism.
So you just start pulling, you start creating, and all of a sudden, yeah, you start to feel a little bit of, you're like playing a caricature of yourself.
And that was tough.
Like confronting that was tough.
So instead of living your life and then making content about it, you're like, yo, how can I live my life in a way that makes interesting content?
And that felt inauthentic to you.
There were weird like unintended consequences though.
I was thinking about this a lot this morning.
On my run, particularly this morning, I was so drilled in on this.
My wife and I were fighting about something yesterday, and this is what I was thinking about.
My wife is the most amazing character on camera because she gives zero fucks.
She does not give a shit.
And like a lot of like partners and YouTube vlogs are always like, hey, what are you doing?
You know, it's very, very turned up.
And you're like, I've met a lot of people, never met a human that's actually.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
This is an inconvenience to her.
She doesn't give a shit.
And no matter what.
She'd say something interesting, but please say it again.
She's like, you can go fuck yourself.
I'm going to use that.
But I remember vividly, like, I needed her so much for those moments that when we'd get in actual fights, I'd be like, can't afford this fight right now.
I can't afford this fight right now.
Wow.
And that sounds like a little bit evil and awful, but I think there's another side to it, which is like, when you're married, like, you know, like you get into a fight over fucking bullshit.
And if you step away and you're like, you know, if something were to happen, if lightning were to strike tonight, would I give a shit about this, what we're fighting about?
Like, no, this is meaningless.
It's stupid.
Just push it aside.
I love her.
And like the vlog in its most virtuous take forced me to do that with her.
Like I couldn't let the bullshit fester.
Yeah.
Which sounds virtuous, but I couldn't let the bullshit fester because I needed her to make my fucking video.
Yeah.
But the outcome was the same.
And I think about that now because that thing that I was thinking about that we were fighting about this morning on my run is that I literally like didn't put the dishes in the dishwasher last night.
Yeah.
And I'm like, you know, if I don't want to fucking put them in the dishwasher, I'm going to put them in the fucking dishwasher.
Who the fuck is she?
She can put them in the fucking dishwasher.
I'm not, you know who pays for the maid?
I pay for the maid.
I'm not putting them in the fucking dishwasher.
That always works.
I pay for it.
If she's like straight away, I'd bring that up.
Why do they love that so much?
What is it about women when you tell them that you provide a feeling?
And if that doesn't work, you just, you say, you know what?
You're acting like your mother right now.
And that just calms the story down.
That just gets my wife so horny.
It's funny because...
Have you ever just called him crazy?
You're a good one.
I gotta use that one.
Yeah, yeah.
You're gonna be like, oh, you're on your period.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And then you just say, calm down.
Yeah, calm down.
Calm down.
Calm down.
I don't consider myself like a Casanova, but I know how to speak to women.
Yeah, I can tell.
I can tell.
I gotta try that too.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You call me a crazy mom-like woman, you?
Darius, that's it.
You can't use the B-word.
Oh, no, sorry.
That's too far.
That was crossing a lot.
She's a monster.
I'm sorry, Jesus.
Darius, either of my children.
I crossed the line.
Instead of couples therapy.
What crazy lunatics the motherfuckers?
No, she's not a B word.
She is not a B word.
The thing is, she's always right.
Yes.
And I am the problem.
I acknowledge that.
Yeah, instead of couples therapy, just start a vlog and that will save your math.
You know, it's like there is genuine truth behind that outrageous thing.
Yeah, but you're right.
Did you ever give her bad edits because you were annoying?
No.
Honestly, it was the always the other way around.
It's like she would always like, when I would look back at the footage, I would always realize how fucking wrong I was.
And I'm like, shit.
And I had to like sweeten myself up in the edit because she's always right.
Yeah.
She's like a very kind, smart, beautiful, loving woman.
I'm like a fucking monster.
So you're doing retakes on green screen?
You're like, I love you, babe.
Yeah, it's like a different outfit, different day, different everything.
That's a narration.
Always, always.
I'm curious, what kept you away from sensationalism?
With all these other YouTubers going down that track, was it the detachment from the data or the monetization or was it just a dedication to the art?
You know, it's more just like watching my peers do that and just such fucking disgust.
And that's not a judgment on everyone.
But like I watch, like my little daughter, she's eight now, she's not so little, but like when she's on YouTube unsupervised, then we have her fucking iPod, iPad locked up, but she's smarter than us.
You can put all these filters on it and shit.
She's figured out all she has to do is sign out of iCloud and all the filters disappear.
There's no beating her.
When no one's looking, she's watching these family vlogs.
And like, it's the grossest shit you've ever seen.
And it's like really yucky.
I hate it.
And everything's like, wow, what are we going to do today, guys?
And it's like, let's go throw Mommy's car in the river.
And it's like this fucking just lunacy.
And it was so gross that I had this tremendous insecurity that I'd ever get even close, even near that.
Because make no mistake, I am a YouTuber.
I'm a vlogger.
I make videos about myself.
They're very self-centered.
They're very like self-aggrandizing.
Like I'm just me talking to a camera with the like presumption that the world gives a shit about what I think.
Like I don't hide from any of that, but there's a little thread that like I like to think of myself as like a filmmaker or storyteller.
And so it's like there I've got that insecurity on one side and that driving like desire to still maintain some of that filmmaker integrity on the other.
And I think it's a needle that sometimes I thread well and other times I don't.
Do you think any of it is an advantage of being older?
So because when YouTube came around, it's huge.
Yeah, we grew up in a generation where like you need to be a little self-conscious about what the fuck you're putting out there.
Kids don't have that.
Yeah, I also think it's like you wanted to make films.
And I think a lot of people want to be famous and they just see YouTube as the way to get fame.
So they're chasing whatever brings them fame and that might be sensationalism.
That might be throwing a car in a river.
It might be whatever.
But the thing that you would probably be most self-critical about wouldn't be a lack of success.
It would be being a hack filmmaker.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I wrote a video this morning called, I'm not sure if I can make it if I talk about it, but I'll talk about it anyways.
It's called YouTube Makes Me Sad.
And it's because I'd like to think, and this could be my naivety speaking, but like I like to think that like the driving desire to be on YouTube for aspiring creators is that they want an outlet for creative expression.
They want to make art and they want to make interesting things.
They want to tell stories and they want to do all that.
And when I know that's that's my sole driving force.
So I never look at metrics.
I never pay attention.
That's why I didn't monetize my channel.
Like it's why I never focused on any of that shit.
I just wanted to make things that were, I thought was good.
And now I think the pendulum has swung so far in the other direction where it's just about like monetization.
I remember I was at like this YouTube conference thing a year, a year and a half ago.
And like the guy who was interviewing me was like, so the first person you should hire when you are getting big as an editor, what do you think the second person you should hire?
And I'm like, who the fuck says you should hire an editor?
I was like, I've never worked with an editor.
I was like, the edit is where I write the story.
The editor is, and he's like, you know, the assumption that he was making is that like the purpose of this solely is to grow.
Yeah.
Not to make something that is about creativity.
And I reject that so, so like wholeheartedly, so handily.
I fucking hate that.
And I think that that is what sort of YouTube culture has become.
And it's a bummer.
And I like to think that like back in the vlog days, you know, six, seven years ago, it was much more about creativity.
And now it's much more about metrics, numbers, like fucking juking the algorithm, maximizing retention and all that.
I don't give a shit about any of that.
That's why my brother Van Neistat is my favorite YouTuber.
He literally doesn't look at that.
His wife uploads his videos.
He finishes them and then starts making another one.
He doesn't even look at his back.
He doesn't have access to his back.
He doesn't give a shit.
He just makes what he wants.
Creation for creation sake.
That's exactly right.
And I think that's the most beautiful thing.
Yeah.
How long did you go before you decided to monetize?
One, I want to be clear here.
I fucking regret it and it was stupid.
And if I could go back in time, I would have pushed that button.
Money's good too.
But 100 million views before I turned on monetization.
You didn't know how to do it.
My reason was like, I spoke at a YouTube panel about it when I still had not turned on monetization.
And it was like, the reason why is I felt like, one, this was back when not all videos had ads.
And like when a video would have an ad, I'd be like, ugh.
And sometimes I'd click away.
I'm like, one, I don't want to alienate my audience.
And then two, for me, I made money as directing TV commercials then.
Yeah.
Like doing other work.
So I wanted to think of YouTube purely as just like an outlet for passion projects.
And the minute it started making me money, it would stop being that.
I want to be clear.
Both of those things were grossly misguided and I fucking regret it and it was a mistake.
I should have clicked that fucking button.
You know how many dollars 100 million views is?
Could have bought another car to fucking crash.
I did the same thing.
Like when I started uploading, I didn't put the ad because I was worried that people would click away because I would always click away.
Me too.
Always.
And then I didn't realize until much later on that like YouTube wants there to be ads.
You get more views.
Yeah, if they're making money, right, then they might show your shit to more people.
No, no, this is not a paid promotion.
This is not a paid.
Not a paid promotion.
Zero.
100 million views.
What are we working on right here?
The money is good.
How much is Logan paying you, bro?
Zero.
This is, I'm bringing this up because this is something I'm embarrassed about and I needed someone to talk to about it.
And I thought this would be an appropriate band.
You love Prime Energy.
Logan's a friend.
I love the guy.
And he told me about Prime before he launched it.
And I don't know if it's him or just the smart people running his company, but cases of this shit shows up in my office.
Yes.
And I have like an unbelievable addiction to it.
Have you tried this shit?
We have.
He sends us cases to our old office and I just haven't corrected him.
And stockpiled.
They literally DM me once a month.
They go, can we send you more Prime?
I go, absolutely.
So it's just sitting in some Hasidic Jewish guy's like apartment in Williamsburg somewhere.
There's an artist in Bushwick that's just primed out every day.
I don't know what kind of fucking fentanyl shit they put in there, but my God.
That's good stuff.
I try not to drink more than three a day.
There's like nine cups of coffee worth of caffeine in that.
Gets you going.
He's definitely not getting paid for that.
No, I'm not the greatest endorsement.
Once 100 million units get sold, he'll start making clubs.
I'll turn that button on.
Do you ever wish that you were part of, because it looks like in the next year or two, you're going to see YouTubers monetize their fan base in a different way?
Not through the ads, but through products.
You know, Jimmy's obviously doing it with the feastables and the cookies and Logan and KSI doing this.
Do you ever wish that you had a product that you sold?
Yeah.
The other thing that I wish I had done sooner was merch.
I always thought merch was sort of a lame sellout sort of thing.
Yeah.
And I think I'm wrong about that.
Like I did do merch and it was very successful.
And I think back to when I was like a kid and like I got a red hot chili peppers t-shirt.
I wore that thing every, I just was so psyched to show the world that like this is who I like.
Yeah.
And I think there's something valid about that with merch.
I think there's like a gross side of it too when you're like sort of predatorily, if that's a word, like focusing on young kids, tell your parents to buy you this shit.
Like that's bad.
Yeah.
But I think there's a medium there where you can sell something and people are excited to support you and you're giving them something of an equitable exchange.
So I'll have nothing against it.
I just have a tough time getting excited about it.
Getting excited about.
Yeah, like I see Logan with Prime and like he's fucking literally jumping off the top rope at WrestleMania with a Prime in his hand and it's like fucking brilliant and I love it and it's genius and it's awesome and it's the greatest marketing coup in the history of sports beverages.
I can't do it.
And the product's good, but like there's no way I could commit my existence to like a drink or a something.
Like I just like making videos.
That's the tricky thing.
It's like all of your art has to be centered around promoting this one thing.
To me, it just would feel inauthentic.
Don't get me wrong.
I love the idea of having a billion dollar exit on a drink.
I'll take the exit.
Is it worth every single video that I do?
I'm walking around the bottle.
I'm on stage.
I'm drinking it.
Every joke is centered around Prime.
I mean, I will say, like, my technology company, Beam, was very much so, I think, a parallel to that.
It was just a piece of software instead of a sports drink or a t-shirt.
Yeah.
Can you tell us how you hoodwinked CNN?
That's so great.
Can you break down how you stole money from my favorite thing?
Yeah, we can get into all the intimacies of that.
Yeah.
Especially now that my NDA is up.
Oh, really?
Here we go.
Let's go.
Ask, fire away.
Okay, so you create this tech company.
Yeah.
Okay.
You are, how old at this time?
35 maybe, 36.
You were already vlogging.
Yep.
Okay.
You're already married.
Yep.
By this time you have two kids.
Yep.
Two kids.
Sure.
And so you're just trying to find ways to just be away from the family.
What is the purpose of this tech company?
What is the real core purpose of it?
I mean, like the actual history of the, like the inspiration behind the tech companies.
I was at, I was invited to MIT as a fellow, like the MIT Media Lab as a fellow, which is a big deal because I'm a high school dropout.
And to the best of my professor's knowledge, I'm the only both high school dropout who was also an invited fellow at MIT.
I still carry my MIT ID.
It's in my wallet, my office.
I don't have it.
Did you graduate high school?
No.
Straight to MIT.
Building a Strong Community00:03:08
That's exactly right.
You're God.
As an Indian, that's the thing in your career I'm most jealous of.
You graduated at MIT.
And when I was there, like I really, I like stopped making videos.
I just enveloped myself into that world.
And I worked with a group called the Social Computing Group, which is like super, you know, about coding and the social implications of software in 2015.
I read this amazing book by Nick Bilton called Hatching Twitter, which was about sort of the birth of Twitter, where they get into the fact that at its inception, the guys that were starting Twitter were just kind of these knuckleheads who had an idea.
They hobbled it together and it became Twitter.
And I was like, you know what?
I'm like, I have ideas.
And I realized at MIT, just because I don't know how to write code doesn't mean I can't realize this.
And I had this idea for like a video product.
This is when like videos I thought social media rather was getting really gross.
And it was all about filters and lying.
And like I could create something that's really honest.
And I found like this amazing partner and this guy named Matt Hackett, who he was like the CTO or the head of, I don't know what his title was, but he was very senior at Tumblr, super capable, like unbelievably brilliant technologist.
He became my partner.
We raised venture money and we built this product.
It was called Beam.
It was originally called Beam Me because the idea was like you post videos that are unfiltered and raw and people get to experience sort of your life through your perspective.
And it was awesome and it was great.
And it was like, that was part of the idea behind the vlog.
It was like, I can use my vlog to talk about this company.
It's just not that interesting, like a bunch of dudes sitting around coding.
But once we launched the product, it became like there was such synergy between the vlog and the product and we had this wildly successful launch and like an unbelievable amount of people downloaded the app and loved it and used it.
But ultimately like Snapchat was better.
And Snapchat, like, this is right when Snapchat stories came out, when Snapchat stories came out, I'm like, well, this is like what we built, but better in every fucking way.
Like, they're really, this is so good in ours feels like.
It was the cat ears, man.
Yeah.
Fuck, the rainbow.
The rainbow mount.
I was like, fuck, this is so much better than what we built.
Yeah.
And, you know, we pivoted and we did a bunch of stuff.
We built a really strong community.
We built a really strong, but ultimately, like, the app just did not succeed.
But the funny thing about the tech space is like, just because your product fails doesn't mean you don't have something of value.
And I met with Jeff Zucker at CNN because his son was a fan of mine.
And I remember like at the time, so I was daily vlogging.
Like, I had a rule, no meetings.
And my agent called me.
He's like, I have a meeting for you.
And I was like, I can't afford a fucking meeting.
I have to make a video every day.
Yeah.
He's like, that's what you might want to take.
It's the head of CNN.
And I was like, okay.
And I met with them and Jeff was like, how can we work together?
And he's like a super cool guy.
And I was like, there's no way I got my own thing and I'm bigger than you are.
More people watch my vlogs than watch CNN.
Like I'm happy there.
And then like as I was like, you know what though?
Your technology sucks.
I was like, CNN has bad tech.
Your app is like fucking like late 2000s app.
Like your website looks like something that belongs on AOL.
Like it's fucking terrible.
I was like, there's an opportunity there.
And he handed me off to his people who were very smart.
And we got excited.
Teenage Freedom and Chaos00:14:54
Like, let's buy your company.
And they weren't buying an app because the app was not successful.
They're just buying the tech behind it.
They were buying the tech behind it.
They're buying this amazing team that we had built.
They're buying like access to Matt, my partner, buying access to me and my insight.
And like, we had all these ideas together.
And like, that's how they bought my company for like a lot of money.
Yeah.
Can we say how much?
Yeah.
Because it's public record.
Yeah.
I know.
But maybe it just comes out of your mouth.
But it's.
200 million.
I wish.
I wish.
Damn, I thought that was going to make you super.
No, like the number that was public was 25 million.
And then what's the private number?
That was, that was good.
That was good.
Wow, that was a well-worded sentence.
The number that was built.
That's the public number, 25 million.
Do you get a trip anywhere crazy?
Do they take you to some like wild sex parties, Anderson Cooper, Chipstein's Island or something?
Yeah.
I will say they acquired the company like, and right as we were getting up to speed, we went to South Buy Southwest.
And I was like the keynote speaker at South Buy.
And CNN had this huge event, like that night, huge party to like celebrate and talk what we were doing together and stuff.
And I remember I was like, all the executives were there.
And we're like, I was like, how long are you guys here for?
And they're like, oh, we're all going back tonight.
And I'm like, are you like flying back?
They're like, it's too late.
And they're like, no, no, we got like the CNN plane.
We're flying back tonight.
And I was like, can I go with you?
And I didn't get.
You said no?
I didn't get to go on the CNN plane.
What?
Now, hold on, hold on one second.
Hold on one second, Casey.
You know, there was an extra.
I would have sat in the bathroom.
Yeah, you've been on PJs.
You know, in the bathroom, there's a thing you put over the toilet.
And there's a seatbelt.
I don't sit in the bathroom.
I'm not above that.
Just bring me back snacks.
Yeah, it's almost better actually in the bathroom.
Yeah, it's a private room.
And then if someone needs to use it, I would step out.
Yeah, go back to the back.
I'll bring the snacks out.
100%.
And then when they were done, I'll go back in, clean.
And then I'd eat my snacks.
Now, you harbored this feeling of rejection.
I still do.
But how did you get around it?
How did you overcome not being the president?
What was the first thing that you did once you got that big deal?
What is the first thing that you and your family did?
You started doing this once you got that big CNN deal.
What was it?
You know, I don't.
How did you guys start flying around the world, Casey?
What'd you do?
Aaron Eyestatt.
I bought my own 737 Boeing Business Chip.
Take that, CNN.
Take that, Don Lemon.
And I parked outside right now.
Wow, you taxied over here?
Yeah.
Oh, nice, dude.
None of this is true.
I remember my first skateboard here.
No, did you start flying private afterwards?
That's a fun story.
Yeah, I remember because that was like that was the year like the CNN and not only like not only was there that payout, but like they hired Matt and I.
We had a salary.
I was on the salary.
I had fucking healthcare.
And I had healthcare.
And like also that was when it was like raining with YouTube money.
And it was the first time in my life that I had money.
And like I was like, when my first kid was born, I was fucking 16 years old.
I was on welfare.
Like my first apartment in New York City was an SRO, a halfway house where I bribed the guy at the front with a $100 bill and a carton of cigarettes to give me a room.
I had no bathroom and no kitchen.
And it was just fucking like...
He doesn't even know he's not in the house.
Cross out somebody's name.
Sleep with mine.
Yeah, that's what it was like.
It was $400 a month, Upper West Side, like right on the edge of Harlem.
And it was a place to sleep every night.
And you would fucked up shit happened in there.
Like fucked up shit happened.
And like I would live in there with my kid.
I remember going to the bathroom once with my kid.
He was like two years old.
He's like, I'd go to the potty.
And it's like, we have to put our shoes on.
We have to take like our basket with all of our toiletries.
And we go to the bathroom.
Fucking bathroom was covered in blood.
Wee.
And I closed the door so he didn't see it.
And I was like, come on, let's go to the other bathroom.
We'd go down a flight of steps.
Like that was my life.
Wow.
So like, boom, all of a sudden, like, I get paid.
So like, I remember saying to my wife, I was like, look, this is going to end.
But like, we're going to like.
While it's happening.
While it's happening.
What are we going for?
Like, we went and bought an apartment.
And then like, we didn't get a 737 or whatever I said two minutes ago, but like we like got like a thing where you get to go on a plane for like you like rent hours.
Yeah, yeah.
Netjets or something like that.
But it was like, like once we were like, we're in Miami and our kid was sick and I was like, I'll get us our own plane to go home.
It was like 8,000 bucks.
Fuck, I wish I had the 8,000 bucks right now.
But it was fucking fun.
It was fun.
It lasted like a year and I was like, honey, honey.
No, just bring it back.
You got the receipt, bring it back.
But it was fun.
It was fun.
Have you ever in your life felt an aversion to risk?
No.
And why did you?
You know what?
I take that back.
Now I do.
I was talking to Dean about this a little bit.
Now I do.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like, I never felt an average.
It's funny, like, when you have nothing, there's a freedom to that, right?
There's a freedom.
When you have nothing, you have nothing to lose.
That's exactly right.
It's fucking, let's go.
Like, there's nothing to lose.
And now it's like, I look at my kids, I got to pay for their school.
And it's like, I've got to play it safe.
Like, my biggest fear is not being able to pay for school and not being able to have a place for us to live where they feel safe.
And like, those are my fears.
You can live with nothing.
Oh, yeah.
You can live with nothing.
And you can't be the reason they don't have it.
Yeah.
It gets scary.
It gets scary.
Can we go back to nothing?
You drop out of school at what?
15?
Yeah, 14, 15.
14, 15.
Yeah, like ninth grade was the first year.
Last year I finished freshman year.
What was happening in school?
It was less school.
It was more like I had a kind of a fucked up situation at home.
I say that gently.
Like we, parents were, they were not like, like in the grand scheme of things, it was fine.
Yeah.
But it was like I was the one who had to like tell my dad, like, dad, mom's cheating on you.
Oh, wow.
Oh, really?
And like.
You saw what happened?
It was, yeah.
It was like.
Like, I had to tell my father that.
And that's fucking weird.
Oh, yeah.
And then my mother, you know, my mother really like blamed the kids in a very like classic like after-school special, like Hallmark movie kind of way, which was just fucked up.
And then I just, like, we all kind of did, but my sister had a car.
Van, my older brother was just in college.
Dean was little, three years younger than me.
And I was just sort of like this weird, stuck teenager.
So it was just like full rebellion.
You were acting out in school a little bit.
Yeah, rebelling against her, rebelling against everything.
Like I started selling weed.
Really?
Yeah, because I remember like I discovered weed.
This is a fun little parenthetical here, a little tangent for us.
But I like first time I smoked weed, I was like, woof, woof.
This is a lot of fun.
I was like, but let me get this straight.
Like fucking paper root all week long for like a fucking this much.
I was like, this is like not cost effective.
And then I remember we like all chipped in and we got a half an ounce.
And I was like, you know, mine was gone by Wednesday.
And my boy was like, mine's gone too, but I got more money.
I'm buying more.
And I had to get more money.
He's like, I sold half of mine.
And I was like, how much do you sell it for?
And he's like, I sold it for 50.
I was like, but you only chipped in 50.
And he's like, yeah, but, and I was like, oh.
And I started like doing the math.
And I start, instructor in the math.
And I'm like, so you're telling me if I buy a half a pound, I can get a 1600% return on that if I'm selling you.
That's really good math for a dropout.
Yeah.
And that's what I did.
And I was just fucking making bank.
And how I did it is like the house we lived in, everybody slept on the second floor.
My bedroom was on the first floor.
Oh, so you are free.
So they'd park, I had a pager.
So they'd park a block away.
This is old school drug dealership.
I open my window.
This is like cranking the window to my parents' house.
They come up the window and be like, I'd be like, yo, it's good.
And they'd be like, you got the eighth?
And I'd be like, yeah, yeah.
Like, I remember I always show them the scale.
You were doing it from the crib?
Yeah, from my bedroom.
Out the window, like at McDonald's.
This is your parents' house or this after you drop.
No, my parents' house.
This is like, look, my parents are like, my parents are like, you know, they're like going through shit.
Like, they don't have time.
Like, they're fucking, my dad, like, I'm the poor guy.
My dad's a great guy.
My mother's fucking fucked up shit in the house.
Nobody's paying attention to my like operation out of the bedroom window.
And anyway, that was one of the ways I was acting out.
And like, I had some degree of financial freedom because like, you know, I had like an under the water bed was hella loot.
Like I was good.
And then just got in a lot of trouble at school, like a lot of fighting, a lot of fighting.
Like to this day, like these are all teeth scars on my knuckles from like what you're at.
Are you pretty good?
No, I was just like, I got picked on.
I was like a little kid.
It was fucking weird looking.
I got into a lot of fist fights.
Like kids would pick on me.
Like kids would like, people would like beat me for weed.
Like I'd give them the weed.
They wouldn't give me the money.
Like you got, you got two choices when that happens.
You shut it down or you're like the guy that people can steal from.
So you have to shut it down.
You had to shut it down.
And I was little.
But you had to learn how to fight.
I could fight.
So you were fucking people up in Connecticut or what?
I mean, it was like a distress.
You're like talking about kids who barely hit puberty, like fighting in the backyard in the back parking lot and stuff.
Nothing.
But it was like those cows.
Alex is seven and four and like eight of those fights are all in the backyard.
It's one of you under the age of 12.
Nah, I hit puberty.
Damn.
But no, so it was like, it was, it was rough.
And then like finally, like, I got in a lot of trouble in school.
Like, something really bad happened.
Can you talk about it?
I think it was either a fight or when they caught me smoking weed in the bathroom.
And it was like a 10-day suspension.
And it was also like, you're allowed five suspensions or 30 detentions and you get thrown out of school.
I had 29 detentions at that point in time.
It was like my sixth suspension.
And I just remember my mom being like, either you live by my rules or you get out of this house.
And I remember just like, I know what you're, like, I know what you're doing.
Yeah, you can't tell me.
Like, if it was my dad saying that, it would have been such, like, I remember my dad when he gave me the drug talk when he found out like me and my friends tried acid once.
Like to this day, I've done acid once when I was like 13.
And after my dad talked to me about it, it was such an effective talk.
Oh, wow.
He was like, you know, you're, you know, you know, my friend, I'm changing the guy's name for his, you know, my friend Chris.
And I was like, yeah.
And he was like, you know how he is?
And I was like, yeah.
And he's like, after he graduated high school, he spent the whole summer doing acid in the basement.
And that's why he's like that.
And I was like, I will never.
And like, that's good.
That was like solid.
But it was like coming from her at that moment.
And I was like, fine, I'm out.
But you respect your dad a lot.
Yeah.
And like, I was like, I'm out.
And I like, I remember I had like a hardcover book under the waterbed, like under the bubble that was filled up with money.
So I'll keep it flat.
And it was like $9,000 or $10,000.
And then I just shoved it in my pocket.
I took my box fan because I can't sleep without a fan on me.
And I just walked out.
I like walked down the street.
It's like a teenager.
Just like left like nine o'clock at night on a Monday.
No call.
No cell phone.
Yeah, nothing.
So where you go?
You go see.
I went to like, I remember his name was Ethan, this kid down the end of the street.
There were a couple Ethan, like this kid, and I like called him from the payphone.
I was like, can I stay with you?
And he has like hippie parents.
He's like, yeah, you can come sleep over.
And I stayed at his house for two nights.
And like there was this other kid, Dan, who he also sold a lot of weed.
And his mother used to like steal his weed.
She didn't give a shit.
And I was like, can I stay with you?
He's like, yes.
And I stayed with him for a few days.
And then I met these two girls who were like 18.
They had their own apartment.
Oh, shit.
Like, you can stay with us, no drug dealing, and you got to chip in on rent.
And I was like, I got money.
And I was like, I guess I should stop dealing drugs anyways.
I like moved in with them.
So you rizzed two 18-year-old girls to the point where they just let you move in.
Yeah.
And then like 30 seconds later, one of them was pregnant.
Like immediately.
Immediately.
The daily haul.
Not joking.
Hold on.
You knocked up.
Immediately.
Immediately.
At that time, I was like, I was 15, yeah.
And she was 18?
Yeah.
Reason?
What was like your personal reflection?
Hold on, hold on, hold on.
So, okay, so you're sleeping with one of them.
Does the other one know?
Does she hear it in the night?
Just fucking like.
Yeah, I mean, I was like 15.
That sound never happened.
It was like, you know, a second, sometimes a glance.
I'm sorry.
Your dick was a booster board, bro.
You get there quick.
It was like, was that it?
You know, like, there's a lot of that.
There was a lot of that.
But, like, no, we had a great relationship.
I liked her.
Yeah.
She was awesome.
She was cool.
She was like a really independent, strong-willed girl whose parents had like, like, she had been on her own since she was young too.
Oh, wow.
And she was just like a G.
She worked hard.
She was like, I had a job then washing dishes because I wasn't dealing with drugs anymore.
She'd like drive me to work every day.
And like, you know, we didn't know she was pregnant.
But like, you can, you know, you can start at the end and then work back.
Yes.
And I'm not joking when I say like it was within weeks of meeting each other.
Was that like tricky to get to that point?
Did you hit on her?
Like, were you like, oh yeah, this is awesome?
How do you cross that threshold?
Because you're homeless.
Yeah.
So you're already grateful.
Yeah.
And then you bang your landlord.
That's pretty impressive.
What is that like?
I don't know.
I'm just saying this pussy around.
I'm just saying, what is, that's pretty awesome.
I haven't thought in those terms in a long time because it's like she uniquely doesn't, like, she represents like my son's mother and this woman that I've had this fantastic relationship with for 26 years now.
And she's this wonderful person that I know.
So I've never really thought of her in those terms because like she was this like hot teenager and I was this kid for like this much of our life.
And then for this much of our life, we're just like adults together sharing this responsibility, being parents.
So I never get to think in those terms.
But like, you know, back then it was like you're a teenager.
You're just learning about girls or like hot girls in high school.
Was that your first time having sex?
No, but it was, you know, it wasn't far from that.
It wasn't far from that.
I was on Shira Street.
Like it wasn't.
Yeah.
Like it was very.
First time having sex to pregnancy?
It was.
It was close, but it wasn't the first time.
Okay.
You know, there were like some fun parties where like silly shit happens before that.
But like there was no I was not by any means experienced.
I didn't know where I had to move you out.
I didn't know I didn't know what was going on.
Like looking back at it like in the immediate aftermath like when she's pregnant like how did this happen?
I was like, oh no, I definitely know how this happened.
Yeah, right?
Like you realize like this is like not to take it from this fun bro conversation to get real, but it's like the importance of sex ed.
I am dead fucking serious right now.
Moving to Connecticut with Cats00:15:40
Thing to teach kids.
I had no clue.
You didn't know where babies came from?
Yeah.
I knew where babies came from, but it was like.
What'd you think?
She's not going to get pregnant.
You know, like, I literally remember that.
I think you need sex ed.
I had none.
Like, I was a kid.
I was a kid.
Like, none of it made sense to me.
Like, I was just a kid.
Like, obviously, when you're, when I'm in my 20s and I'm single, it's all very vivid.
Yes.
But, like, young people have sex without any understanding of what the actual consequences are.
You thought the pullout method was like 100%.
Oh, 100%.
And I would pull out after I finished.
None of it.
I understood that.
Yeah.
I understood none of it.
They teach you in sex ed, that's the most fun.
It's like, I didn't get to that class.
I like, I remember Connecticut public school education.
We had like, you know, like one day year dedicated towards sex ed.
And it sounds silly, but like the timeframe from like kissing girls and being like, yo, I got to touch her boobs, like that point in your immaturity and your relationship with women to me literally having a girlfriend mine be pregnant.
That was like, we're talking about months.
You know, it's not a long time.
And like, I wasn't dumb.
I just had no idea.
And that part I remember.
Like, that's more like reflecting back as a parent and as a mature adult.
Like, I remember as I entered my 20s in New York City and I was actually single and I started like a normal life with girls and dating and sex and shit like that.
It was obviously like super clear how things work.
But for that like short window of time.
And I know like a lot of people that were like around my age in my fucked up part of the world who like also got girls pregnant and either had kids or parents are terrified to explain to them.
Parents are terrified.
I'm terrified to talk to my daughters about it.
My wife is like a hero about it.
Yeah.
How did you feel when she told you?
Were you scared in that moment?
Weirdly, like no.
And I look back at that and like much credit to her.
She's really like an exceptional human being.
She's a very strong, super smart, like tough, independent woman.
But she was terrified.
And I remember like one time she was crying and I was like, why are you crying?
I was like, we're going to have a kid.
This is going to be fine.
And like looking back at that, who the fuck was I to say that?
I was like 16.
She's like driving me to my dishwashing job in like a 1988 Ford Taurus that had mismatched color like door panels on the outside that wasn't registered.
And we only had enough gas money to get me to and from work.
We could not drive anywhere else where we'd like run out of gas.
I'm like, we're going to be fine.
We're golden.
And no, I think then for me, it was such like a vivid thing that was like I was like, drop out, drug dealer, fuck up.
And it was like, no, no, no, here's how I can do good.
This is like being a parent.
Yeah, this is your opportunity.
This is my key.
Like, this is what's going to like fix it.
And you can maybe be a better parent.
And that's exactly what happened.
Yeah.
Interesting.
Exactly what happened.
It gave you what?
Focus, determination.
Yeah, yeah.
It's like the minute you have a child, you sort of externalize your priorities where it's like, it's not about me.
It's about this like amazing thing, this child, this kid.
But that's not the only time that you're broke.
I know, still broke.
But then you go on to have some success.
So you move out of connection with.
The success was like, it was still many years, years and years and years away.
Or like a decade away.
Because from that moment.
Baby's born, what, 97, 96?
And then when do you go live with Van?
So, yeah, so this is like, this gets a little nuanced, but like, she was pregnant the entire time we moved to live with Van.
So, what happened was my brother Van was in college at William and Mary in Virginia.
We lived in Connecticut.
And, like, she and I really started to like each other.
We like, you know, we like, we're in it together.
We didn't know she was pregnant.
And we like, get like, let's get the fuck out of here.
She got into sort of a little tiff with her girlfriend who was the roommate.
And she was like, I don't want to be here anymore.
And I was like, I got nothing holding me down.
Let's go.
So we ran away.
We moved to Virginia where my brother Van was in college.
And we like, he like lived in this flop house.
We had a room in the flop house.
He had to adopt me, my brother Van.
Oh, wow.
So you had to go to school and shit.
I wasn't of age.
I was only 15.
Yeah.
So he had to adopt me.
That's a fucked up story.
Why?
Well, one, we had to go in front of a judge.
He's fucking.
He's 21.
I'm 15.
We had bleached our hair the day before.
No, we thought we'd look handsome.
Backstreet Boys.
Yeah, yeah.
But we put the bleach in our hair.
Then we put hair nets over, like plastic, like shower caps over.
And we went to Golden Corral because we were hungry.
But we didn't know you're not supposed to leave it in there that long.
So our fucking scalps are bleeding and we washed out half our hair fell out.
So we go in there with like flaming red scalps, white, translucent, fucking polar bear looking hair.
And we're wearing suits that we got at like the thrift store, like don't fit us.
And the judge is like, what are you doing here?
And we had a good story.
Which was?
Which was like, I just want to go to school.
And this is the only way I can go to school.
And I remember she was like, all right, well, I guess my better, against my better judgment, I will grant you this.
Wow.
That is not the last time a judge is sad verbiage with that one is in the distant future, but we can get to that.
Okay, we'll get there.
We'll get there.
You got your dad.
Yeah, and then when we get into the parking lot.
Did he make you call him dad a little bit?
No, that's fucking weird.
But when we got into the- What about dad?
When we got into the parking lot, I just remember Van was like, couldn't get his lighter to work.
And he's like trying to get his lighter to work to light my Winston cigarette.
And he finally just like, got it.
Look up, and the judge is standing there.
And he just lit my cigarette.
And we're like, thanks.
Go get our fucking homemade self before we told her.
And left.
Oh, that's wild.
Okay, so you're living in Virginia for a little bit.
And then like, and then it became like clear.
Like clear that she was.
Oh, and it was like, you can't live in a, nobody said that to us, but it was like, we can't live in a fucking flop house.
Right.
And it was like also like ourselves, like, we couldn't deny it anymore.
Right.
Like, we sort of knew, but it was like the idea of someone being pregnant when you're that young.
It's like unfathomable.
Like, neither of us could comprehend that that was real.
Yeah.
What's a flop house?
I never heard that.
So this was literally called the hippie house and it no longer exists on the campus of William and Mary, but it was like a big, huge Victorian house that was kind of fucked up, but it had like 19 bedrooms in it.
So everybody would just chip in a couple hundred bucks and all of a sudden you could afford this gigantic house.
Gotcha.
And like, you know, the nicer the bedroom, the more expensive it was.
But like eight people lived in the attic.
You just got like a spot that was like 100 bucks a month and campus on campus.
It was a house for hippies.
Yeah, it's exactly what it was.
It's now the university bought it.
It's not like one of the administrative buildings.
I went back years ago and it was like heartbreaking.
Yeah, but that's where we lived.
Okay, so you guys moved back to.
We moved back to Connecticut and we moved in with like her cousin who had four kids of her own.
Very nice people.
They were just looking after us.
We had nowhere to live.
And we lived in their basement, an unfinished like concrete basement.
Yeah, it was fucking gnarly.
You never lost self-confidence.
You always were like, no, it's like, cool.
I remember like, I remember like, I got a job washing dishes for eight bucks an hour, which was like two bucks more than I had ever been paid for washing dishes.
So you were just paying me.
I remember I came home and like the dad like her cousin's husband He was like how did the interview go and I was like I got the job eight bucks an hour and I was expecting him to be like my man And said he like I just saw the look of terror because he's an adult father.
Yeah, he was like like if you work a hundred hours a week You might be able to afford groceries was like the look on his face and I didn't understand that Yeah, but no eight bucks an hour.
I was like fucking got it.
You never thought about selling things good Selling selling weed again?
You never thought about no no like that was no too risky.
Yeah, and it was also just like the child was a it was a pivot point It was like I was psyched to like prove that I was like good now Okay, so you're back in Connecticut.
When do you make that move to New York?
After she dumped me which was like like we lived in a really dumpy apartment that was dope that was great, but it was like 300 bucks a month 400 bucks a month in Connecticut in part of Connecticut.
And then I remember we bought some real estate.
I was waiting for that.
I was like, you're just setting up the, you're setting up the pins right now and I'm ready to bowl a strike.
We bought a trailer that we were able to park on a piece of land.
The trailer was $12,000 that we were able to get a mortgage on.
So our mortgage on that trailer was like $110 a month.
And then to rent the piece of land that we parked our caravan on was $200 a month.
So it cost us less monthly to live in like a mobile home.
And that's where we live.
Yeah.
Holy shit.
But then it meant I could walk to work because it was closer to my life.
So you didn't have to spend any money on it.
Yeah, so we lived in like this trailer park, this like caravan park.
And it was not bad living.
Yeah.
But I will say like there's a line in Juicy about like no heat on Christmas Day.
Like one morning we woke up on it, it was Christmas morning and like the heater for our trailer had completely fried.
And like we had woke up Christmas morning, it was like fucking freezing.
But eventually she dumped me.
Why?
I mean.
You had so much going for you.
I've been making eight bucks a day.
Well, I was up to like nine and change by eventually.
You know, real estate.
She dumped me for all the right reasons.
Okay.
And I thank the Lord every day that she did dump me because it was a kick in the ass that I needed.
And I like moved in with the cook at the restaurant who's also a single dad.
Yeah.
I like lived in his condo with him.
And then like I started coming into New York on Metro North to see Van, to see my brother.
He, this is a fun story, but he had to drop out of William to Mary because my mother spent his tuition money on a new car.
Oh, wow.
Did you crash it?
I was never allowed to drive it.
But I would have.
Well, yeah, of course.
So Van moved to New York City.
And like New York City was like, for me, as a child, like some kids had like the fucking Testerosa or like the Coontosh poster, Kathy Ireland poster.
I had like the New York City poster.
Like I obsessed over the city when I was a kid.
Like the movie Big was my favorite.
He's this little kid like me and he got to move to New York City.
New York City was like there was nothing greater in the world.
That's your favorite movie.
When I was a kid, I watched it every single day.
I know every word to that movie.
I literally wrote down in my notes, you're Tom Hanks from Big.
Yeah, that's my goal.
My whole goal my whole life.
Mission accomplished.
That's it.
Wow.
That's all I've ever wanted to be.
Like he lived in a loft with a fucking toys.
You ever seen my office?
They have the same space.
I mean, it just makes perfect sense.
It's all I've ever wanted.
And he was a little bit.
It's a juvenile exuberance about life.
You're just so excited about everything that you do.
And that is what a child in an adult's body that can do whatever the fuck they want to do would have.
There's no bitterness.
There's no hate unless we're talking about types of content.
Do you know that Tom Hanks was nominated for the Academy Award for Best Supporting Actor, Best Actor in that movie?
Little known fact.
That might not be true.
I believed it, though.
It's like, oh, yeah.
So it continues.
So now you get to start feeling the city.
He goes, yeah, so it was like going into Metro and coming in like by myself is a big deal.
I remember I would like drive my car to like New Haven, then get on the train.
It was like nine bucks each way.
And then I'd like come in and we'd like talk about ideas and the future.
And I had this five-year plan to move to New York City.
And then something just kind of clicked and I was like, no, I got to go.
I got to do this.
I got to go.
And my brother's girlfriend's friend had this shitty place in the East Village, like an Alphabet City in 2001.
And it was like 800 bucks a month for the summer.
And my brother's girlfriend paid the rent at the 2,400 bucks.
So I'd have a place for the summer.
And so I had three months where I had a room in a studio apartment converted into a two-bedroom.
And the room was so small, my futon, when laid into a bed, would go to a V. So I was like a taco chef.
Like it couldn't go fly.
And that's where I slept.
And that's where I like moved here with like a fucking two-year-old.
And I would like bring him back and forth on the train.
I would go back.
And it was like 50 bucks round trip to go there.
Or like there was a cheat where if I didn't have the 50 bucks, you could take a bus to Foxwood Casino.
Foxwoods Casino subsidized the cost of the bus so people go there to gamble and it was close enough to where I lived where I could like get there.
So that was like a cheaper way to do it.
Wow.
So I like, so I never was like, never stepped away from the kid or my role as a parent.
Did you ever go to FAO Schwartz like in the movie?
Yeah, yeah, when he was little.
That's what we would do.
We had so much fun.
But that was like, that was like, as crazy as this sounds, that was way lower and way scarier financially than even when I was on welfare in Connecticut.
There was something safe.
Like I lived in a trailer.
I lived in a caravan, but I knew that that was there every night.
And I knew there'd be, I worked in a restaurant.
There's always food.
And when I got to New York, there was like, I had nothing.
I was like a bike messenger and I remember being a bike messenger and like my first paycheck for a bike messenger was like 270 bucks, but they contact you on your personal cell phone and my cell phone bill was like $50 more than my paycheck and I'm like losing money.
And it was just fucking scary.
Sorry, to interrupt.
What are your aspirations at this point in your life?
Exactly what they were right now, exactly what they are right now.
Like I just wanted to make movies.
You know, like that thing that I would come into the city to talk to my brother Van about, he had bought the computer that you could edit video on.
And I had the camcorder to make videos of my kid.
Like I got a, I got a WWF Brett the Himmon heart credit card, maxed it out at Tweeter, which was like an electronic store in the fucking Crystal Mall, to buy a camcorder to film my kid.
And Van had the computer, I had the camera, so we would like join forces to make little videos.
And I was like, this is all I want to do for the rest of my life.
So I'd like to come in, and that was the dream, but instead I was like a bike messenger.
And it was just rough.
It was like really, really fucking brutal.
Those were like the scariest months.
When do you get the break?
Not even the big break.
And I mean, so like I met this artist who has like a studio near here, Tom Sachs.
And like I started working for him for like 10 bucks an hour under the table, doing like odd jobs and doing bullshit.
And that sort of was something.
It was more than being a bike messenger.
At least I knew it was sort of a dependable thing, which just wasn't much money.
And like, I remember like one point in time, he had this like model girlfriend who was a friend of his or a friend of the studios or something.
And she needed a house sitter.
So I like went and stayed at her cushy apartment.
All I had to do was look after her two like fucking half cheetah, half cat cats.
You know, he's like very fancy, fucking awful cats that destroy everything.
And she was like, they each get two cans of this like fancy cat food.
And she just never came back.
She was supposed to be back in three weeks.
And it was like a month and a half later.
And I was like, we're out of fucking cat food.
And I just remember thinking it was like, if the cats are me.
I was like, I'm not going hungry.
So I was like, these cats went from getting two cans each day.
They would share one can of whatever the cheapest shit that the fucking bodega would sell me.
That's it.
And let me tell you, these cats were fucking hungry.
Because like I didn't have, I ate the cat food equivalent.
Like I would buy bags of rice and bags of pasta.
It should so cheap.
Yeah.
From like a calorie to dollar perspective, it was cheap.
And the cats would just watch me eat my plain pasta.
And I'd be like, you ever seen a cat eat plain pasta?
You know how hungry a cat has to be?
Biking Away from the Apartment00:05:11
Like lady in the tramp.
They just like slurp it up.
It was, no, it was like, they would like fight.
They're like scratch me.
They would scratch me in bed.
And like that felt like that went on.
That felt like that went on for a really long time.
Yeah.
So New York is a struggle for you.
That was the scariest year of my life.
Yeah, in the formative years of your life.
Yeah.
But you're kind of okay with it.
You're almost like comfortable in the chaos.
And then you come to New York and that's the difficult part.
That's when like chaos was like quite literally off the charts.
And when I say off the charts, I mean like imagine what you, your scope of chaos, like welfare, uncertainty, like no education, no skills, no discernible skills, no way to make a living.
Yeah.
And then like you come into a city with no skills to transfer into this city.
I wouldn't, I couldn't even get a job washing dishes here because it was like.
Too competitive.
And like, yeah, nobody knew what it was just, I was too young and it was weird.
Like I couldn't get the fucking gig.
And then like the really key part is that apartment that my brother's girlfriend rented for me was from June 1 to September 1.
So it's three months.
It was up.
September 1, like I had no place to stay.
I met this like really cool friend of my brother's girlfriend.
She was like in his acting classes, cool gay guy who had rich parents.
And he's like, I've got this loft my dad's paying for.
Renty cash.
Feed me 500 bucks a month.
You can stay on my couch.
And I was like, sweet.
Moved into his place on Rector Street, dope apartment.
There was like three roommates in there, me, girl named Kamara, and him.
And like my 11th.
Another kid?
No, me.
No.
No.
That would have been, that probably would have been easier to cope with.
But we lived on Rector Street.
I moved in on September 1, 2001.
Oh.
10 days into my tenure, I was woken up because all the windows, glass blew in.
Like our whole apartment exploded.
Shit.
Thank God your son wasn't with you.
I was like, thank God he wasn't with me.
And I like, I just remember like panicking and like putting on shorts up and they're like, they're up.
And they're like, what do we do?
And I was like, I'm getting the fuck out of here.
And they're like, do not leave the house.
It's the worst thing you can do.
And I was like, all right, fuck that.
I'm leaving.
Like, good luck, guys.
And I bailed.
And I went outside and it was just like, it was like, like PTSD is something I don't, especially because I'm friends with a lot of former soldiers.
My kid brother is a veteran.
I don't use that lightly, but like I could describe for you in the most vivid detail.
Like if I could, I could export this, if I could draw, I could paint for you a frame by frame, 24 frames per second, what I experienced for the proceeding four hours with the most vivid smells, tastes, colors, everything.
Like stepped outside in my apartment and I just see someone frantically, not in uniform, a human, just fucking dressed like you were dressed, running around frankly with a stack of sheets this high, taking the sheets, one hand, wringing it out, and then dropping them.
And I'm like, what the fuck is that person doing?
And as they drop them, they'd turn red.
And I realized they were dropping those sheets on remains that had fallen.
And when I realized that, my brain just, nothing can compute.
Remains of human beings that had fallen from the plane to market.
No, to cover them.
Oh, sheets.
I thought you were talking about like sheets of like a little bit of a bunch of stuff.
No, no, no, no, bed sheets.
Oh, white fucking beds.
Oh my god.
And like my brain, like you, now I couldn't understand that.
Yeah.
And then I definitely couldn't understand.
And I just like got on my bike and like I had my video camera and I was like trying to bike away and I like stopped and I just see like all these cops running in and I see like paper falling and it's like could not make sense of it.
And then like a fireman just starts screaming.
I'm like, get out of here.
Like for my own safety.
It was not being a jerk.
And I was like, start biking away and then just like Heat, like you never imagine, just throws me off my bike.
And that was the second exploit, like second plane hit it.
Like, skin my knees, get up, and like race to Van's apartment on 14th Street.
And I get Van like, like, what do we do?
And I was like, we got to go to the hospital.
We go help people.
And, like, we went to St. Vincent's.
They said Vincent's rest in peace.
This has been closed down and turned into overpriced condominiums.
And we were like out front there and like helping.
And I just remember like no one knew what to do.
Yeah.
And we're like the cops showed up and the cops are like, who's in charge?
Who's in charge?
And I was like, what's the question?
And they're like, what do we do?
And I was like, I need you to shut down that street, shut down traffic here, shut down traffic here.
Only let the ambulances through.
Create a way for the ambulance, come through.
You have flares.
They're like, they're in the trunk.
I was like, get the flares.
And I was literally on New York one, like fucking commanding the situation as like a 20-year-old outside of St. Vincent's because there was just nothing.
And I remember like the one thing I was like, is like, we have to start lining shit up.
And they're like, we're out of cots.
And I was like, get rolling chairs, put sheets over, line them up.
We had like all this.
They're like, everybody was ready.
And no one came.
Like, there was no one to be saved.
And I was like, that's where I was standing.
Like, you know, that view on Sixth Ave, looking straight down at the World Trade Centers, they're right there.
And I just like stand there in slow motion watching them fall.
And it was like CGI before CGI, it was like so like this flower.
There was like a beauty to it that was like, it was like you're, again, you're watching it.
You're like, I don't know what I'm seeing, but that's not, that's, that's not real.
It's too crazy for you to even comprehend.
Watching Towers Fall in Slow Motion00:08:16
Yeah.
Yeah.
Did you film any of it?
I mean, like, I have a couple shots of me biking away, and I've made videos about it, but like I'm biking away and the camera's behind me.
At one point in time, I switch hands and it crosses my face.
And you go through it frame by frame.
You just see like the terror on my face.
Yeah.
So in any event, that was cool.
And I remember.
That moment affected the way you viewed creation or like the way you lived your life after that.
Like it is a trip.
Yeah, how did that change you?
No, I mean, I remember like vividly calling like my dad.
Like I called like my kid's mom like crying.
I was like, get him out of school.
She's like, Kiss, he's fine.
Yeah.
He's fine.
And like I called my dad and my dad was like, it's time to come home.
It's time to come back to Connecticut.
And I just remember like being like, what are you talking about?
Like, how dare you?
Like, no, I'm like, come back.
And then I called the husband of the cousins that we lived with because he was sort of a mentor.
And he was like, it's time to come back.
And I was like, I'm not coming back.
And I was like, no, this is it.
Like, I can make it through this.
Then I'm good.
Like, I'm good.
Yeah.
And that was when I got like the SRO.
And like, I started to figure it out after that.
Like, it started to make sense after that.
Yeah.
My, my brother was, I was in high school at the time.
I was going to high school, Baruch College Campus High School.
So it was up on 23rd.
My brother was going to middle school.
There's a middle school a couple blocks away from the trade center.
And he was like calling, he was like calling my parents because all the kids got to use the payphone to like call home and like looks out the window and he sees people jumping out and hitting the ground.
And I always think about that for him specifically.
Like imagine having a little anxiety as a kid and then seeing a literal worst case catastrophic situation happen in formative years of your life.
Sure.
Yeah.
It's like how that can affect you.
How do you get past that?
How do you think about your brother a couple times a year with that story?
That would be the most, I don't know how you overcome that, man.
I just remember the energy that day.
Like, I remember they wouldn't let us leave school.
And then when we didn't know, the first thing was we thought we were being attacked.
Like, I thought there was going to be an army of some country.
I don't know who the fuck, like walking through the streets.
And I was like, do we get guns?
Like, I didn't know what was going on.
Like, you can't even comprehend.
Yeah, planes flew into the building.
Yeah.
It just wasn't at any part of our culture because like suicides and bombers would exist.
Yeah, it just, it was incomprehensible.
And then my friend Carlos shows up to school and he goes, he goes, he shows up late.
And he had one more lateness before they called his parents.
And he showed up late and he's like, please don't call my parents.
And the principal, the teachers were like, this is your final age.
And he goes, no, you don't understand.
Like, I saw a plane go and hit the World Trade Center.
That's why I'm late.
They weren't buying his excuse.
They were going to do better than that.
Bro, and it was just like, and then once we found out, we're like, and you still came to school?
It was just this like crazy collection of events.
You guys actually all met Carlos.
He came to the Radio City show.
Yeah, that's right.
And then just an unbelievable day, man.
Yeah.
What was the energy like in the city following that?
Like the two weeks after?
Like fucking tanks.
There weren't tanks, but there were Humvees, like up armored Humvees, military.
It was just wild.
I just like that night, the night of September 11th.
It's quiet.
It's quiet.
It was like, I've only been scared twice in my life.
Like the only time in my life, I can only remember like laying in bed being genuinely scared.
And that was one of those times, like only twice my whole fucking life.
I've slept at 21,000 feet.
Like I've slept in the death zone.
I've slept in fucking Afghanistan during the war where like we get woken up out of bed and we have to go climb into concrete tubes because the base is being attacked.
Like I've been in some fucked up situations before and like slept on the streets of Prague with Dean.
Like I've been in some fucked up situations and not like nothing.
No fear whatsoever.
Why that night?
Because like if you remember the F-16s fucking trying to fall asleep, super low-flying F-16s and just the uncertainty.
You're like, where does this end?
There's no internet.
There's no Twitter.
That's the other thing.
All you have to do New York 1 and fucking CNN.
And the way that we reflect on it, it's like, here are these five isolated attacks and then it's over.
But at that point, we didn't know it was over.
No, you have no idea.
It could be.
The planes are grounded.
But you hear an F-16, you're like, wait, is that the next plane that's going to hit a fucking building?
Or are they shooting something down?
It's like, how do we get out of the city?
My roommates that were like, don't leave, don't leave.
We didn't hear from them for five days.
I was just about to ask what happened to them.
So what happened was the fire department was doing door-to-door.
They found them because after the buildings fell, all that broken glass just turned into dust.
Also, keep in mind, like for everybody watching at home, it's like the area that you were in is ground zero adjacent.
It's very clear.
We're up against the World Trade Center.
So you're getting hit by the dust.
They got trapped.
And their windows are already broken.
Yeah, so the fire department pulled them out, put them on a boat that brought them to a school in New Jersey, but they didn't have cell phones or anything.
It's like they called their loved ones, their parents, but it wasn't like we were calling their parents.
So we just didn't know.
And we finally figured out they were fine, but like there's no, like, thank God I left.
Yeah.
That day was so scary for me because I was in school, high school in Broad Channel, which is on Rockaway, but it's right against the water.
And we can actually see the World Trade.
Like, we can see the buildings.
And I knew my mom worked really close.
She worked in the courts.
And so that day, I couldn't get a hold of her at all.
And then the trains were shut down.
And it's like by train, it's like an hour and a half just to get to Rockaway.
So like I eventually finally got in contact with my mom maybe at 9 p.m. at night.
She had to walk across Brooklyn Bridge, walk all through Brooklyn.
I think she wasn't able to get into a car until maybe like Rockweight Boulevard, but she didn't get home until 11 p.m. that night.
And you didn't, you didn't, you hadn't heard from that.
You just had no clue.
Covered in soot, like everything.
I will say, though, now like we're 22 years later, it's like when people want to like, when you need to show you like, because you're born and raised here, but like when people need, are you a New Yorker or not?
Oh, yeah.
I just pull out that 9-11 card.
Yeah.
You are a fucking idiot.
That is just like the bond that that created with the city.
Intense.
Intense.
There's a great story that I heard.
So on 9-11, 2001, I've probably told this before.
There were unbelievable.
I thought you were talking about Jay Z's.
No, no, no, no.
One of the greatest albums, no, no, no.
This is also another incredible.
So a few hits that day.
No, so there was unbelievable waves that day.
So all the New York City diehards went out to Rockaway and they surfed perfection.
Six foot barrels, clean offshore winds.
And that's the other thing.
If you actually look at the towers and the way that the wind is blowing off the towers, the wind is blowing to Brooklyn.
Yep.
Right.
And that's why Brooklyn was actually a little bit affected by some of like the dust and stuff.
So the wind, and that means it's offshore for the island.
So people are at Rockway.
They're out.
And a lot of these surfers took the train out to Rockaway.
So they have the best surf session that they can possibly imagine.
They're like, nothing can go wrong.
This is the greatest day of my life.
I've got the best ways of my life.
And they get out of the water and they look and they try to get on the subway.
They can't.
And then they see in the distance the smoke coming off.
Think about that.
Think about the euphoria you're experiencing after surfing.
I mean, obviously, you know, but anybody who surfs has known, like, you come out of the pool, you come out of the ocean.
It's like cloud nine.
Cloud nine.
You were just floating.
You were just in heaven.
Yeah.
And then seeing that and finding out and then not being able to get in touch with anybody, not being able to get back to the city, not being able to get to speak to your parents, your brothers, your kids.
My brother-in-law went to school downtown, had to run across a Brooklyn Bridge.
And then he had like a couple of friends fall, but he was in good shape back then.
He was on the basketball team.
So he'd have to like go back and pick him up and carry him however he could and like help them get across.
It was a fucking insane thing.
Earning the Right to Film00:02:50
And then he was a senior, so I don't even think he had a graduation because it was just like, you're not.
But you're not even going to school.
I thought this was a comedy podcast.
No.
We'll find some comedy at 9-11.
Don't shoot words.
Don't forget that Jay-Z thing.
We had it.
Who had the blueprint?
Al-Qaeda.
No.
But yes, okay.
So you go through this traumatic event.
It's the only thing in your life that fucking scares you.
What was the other time you were scared?
I don't want to skip too far.
No, like my daughter was sick.
My baby daughter was sick.
There was a moment and it was like, that eclipsed everything else, but she's fine.
But it was like, kids will fuck you up.
Uncertainty and a thing that you can't control.
Both events.
Yeah.
You know?
Yeah, yeah.
Because I don't know.
You come across to me as someone who I feel as if you believe that you can control most situations or get yourself out of most situations.
So like, and you'll put yourself in quite naughty, almost devious situations knowing that like, I can probably wiggle my way out of here.
Look, if you were stuck in like a Thai prison for smuggling and heroin, you can call me.
I'll fucking get you out.
One way or another.
I'll get you out.
But most people, they won't put themselves in these kind of like, even watching the Oscars video.
You're kind of just exploring.
We got a lot of trouble for that.
But most people wouldn't even put themselves back there because they go, oh, what if they kick me out?
I'd get embarrassed.
And, you know, people.
You know what happened?
I don't think we showed in the video.
No, what happened?
So we had passes and we had tickets to sit, but they gave us media passes so we could have kids.
The only reason why we had those passes is so we're at the Academy Awards.
It just meant we were allowed to have cameras.
They issued the wrong passes to us.
So our passes not only did that, but when you put them up to the security gates, it said we had the same degree of access as the official Academy Award cameraman.
So you could get away with that.
We were allowed in places that Brad Pitt was not allowed.
This is great.
And I remember the moment where it was like, we pushed it too far.
After you win your Academy Award, they take you to this like winner's room up in an elevator.
And it's this like small bar as big as your studio here.
And it's just the people who have just won.
It's a place to decompress before you go talk to the media and all.
And I'm in there.
And sounds cool, but there was a little bit like once I realized what was going on that I was like, I was like, Are you all streets just looking at you like, what the fuck is going on?
They were all like, that's what it is.
But I was like, you know, I didn't earn this.
And I just bounced.
Like, I left.
Because I was like, maybe someday, and awards are not part of my goal or dream in life, but someday.
But the point was everybody in there had earned it.
And I was like, I'm a fucking interloper right now.
I didn't use any of the footage from up there, even though I have it.
And it's fucking nuts.
By earned it, do you mean like you earned it?
I didn't win an Academy Award.
And I had cheated my way into this room.
But they also blew Harvey Weinstein again in there.
So like, it's true, but I. That's not what they got the award for specifically.
Leaving Without Earning It00:09:27
Okay.
That distinction was vivid then.
Yes.
Yes.
Okay.
That was his buying the camera.
You know what I mean?
But yeah, what the fuck were you asking me about?
We were talking about blowing Harvey Weinstein.
That was the other boyfriend.
Even Brad Pittrock.
So young, you don't know what Brad had to do to get on.
But no, no, we were talking about how you don't, most people in these situations, rooms they're maybe not supposed to be in, caution tape they're not supposed to pass, they won't.
And it's not always like a fear of what will happen.
It's specifically a fear of like embarrassment of being kicked out, right?
That just doesn't register for you at all.
Yeah, but it's also maybe, but I think it's like, what are you thinking?
It's more of just like a, it comes down to agency.
And it's like, you know, like my whole life, it was like, do as you're told, follow the rules and everything will be fine.
And you just realize as you get older, that's a fucking lie.
Everyone I know that was well-behaved in high school, that got the job, they get fucking laid off.
We're downsizing, fuck you, you're out.
Like everybody who does that.
So it's like my whole life, it's like there's always been a million sheep going in that direction.
Everybody's saying, get in line with the sheep.
But the more I step out of that, the more success I have, the more happiness I find in everything I do.
So like once you realize that, and then you start to understand the parameters of the universe, you just start to see everything through that lens.
Like a good example is yesterday.
You run on the west side?
Yeah.
You know, on like 14th Street, it's all fucked up because of the construction.
And there's like, there's a bike path and a running path and they mash them together at this bottleneck.
And on a nice, warm, sunny day, it was like dangerous and shit, but the construction doesn't happen on Sunday.
And I'm looking at thousands of people and like a biker's yelling at me.
And I just walk, I stop, pause my watch, I walk over, I open the fucking gate to where the construction is.
And now I have my own path for a mile.
That's like, yeah, it's a little fucked up.
You had to jump over some rebar, but I have my own path.
And as I'm running down this path and I'm watching all these people putting themselves at risk and like running into bikes, I'm like, not one of you fuckers, not one of you saw this right here and thought to yourself, there's another way.
There's a safer way.
There's a better way.
You just got in line with all the sheep.
That's totally.
So I think it's just like, it comes down to agency.
It comes down to like a willingness to look at the situation and forget about the right way or the way you were told, but just say, what's the best way?
The way you're supposed to do it is to stay in the apartment right now.
And it's like, okay, but says who?
And it's like a very Jobsian philosophy is that like the world is just created by people that are no smarter than you.
You grow up and you realize, no, like most of the people that make the rules are fucking idiots.
You ever seen an interview with Ted Cruz?
You know what I mean?
He makes the rules that we are supposed to live by.
Like these are the people making the rules.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so it's like, I don't, like, I believe in rules and I believe in laws and I think they keep society safe.
For the most part, if it's yellow, like Ken, just push the gas and go right through it.
Yeah.
Has that ever gotten you in trouble?
Yes.
My license is suspended right now.
Okay, now you have kids.
Yeah.
You want your kids to do as you tell them, but at the same time, you don't want to raise children that are sheep.
It's fucking so much easier said than done.
So my older daughter is, she's challenging, really independent thinker.
She's a fighter.
She's a darling.
You like and you admire, but it must drive you fucking crazy.
It's tough.
It's tough to bear.
But my little daughter is an angel.
She behaves so much, but every once in a while, we leave the two of them alone and we'll hear them fighting.
And my older daughter is just like, you know, she's eight.
The little one's four.
She's outsmarting her.
She's manipulating the little one.
She's bullying the little one.
And I'm like, I got to go.
My wife's like, let them figure it out.
And like, you just hear things get quiet and then you just hear, ah, and the older one comes running out.
And the little one just snapped, beat the shit out of her.
Let's go.
And it's a little bit like, the kid's going to be all right.
The kid's going to be all right.
So, no, as a parent, it's challenging.
But like, I don't like my son, who's like a fucking angel, 4.0, like graduated college.
I mean, this kid had a fucked up upbringing.
Like the most fucked up upbringing.
Like parents separated from really early age.
One lived in New York, one lived in Connecticut, never knew where his home was.
And like, he and I like lived on my, before we lived on my grandmother's couch, we lived in like the attic of my dad's office where we like pinned up sheets to try to build a room.
And it was like uninsulated attic of this old ass building.
And like we had, we're like, we were like proper homeless.
It was fucked up for like a number of years.
But he like the kid's a star.
Like graduated college, did everything right.
He's like in fucking Indonesia right now in a yoga retreat.
He's like doing his thing.
So it's like parenting is this very malleable, mushy, gooey thing.
And my biggest fear is like growing up, raising a kid who thinks that the way to success is following the rules and doing as they're told.
But then I parent them to follow the rules and do as they're told.
And I don't know the answer to any of these questions.
There's a, I won't say the person's name.
I'll tell you afterwards, but he said something interesting.
He had like kind of rough relationship with his pops.
And his father said to him, he's a very successful dude.
And his father goes to him, yeah, but look how successful you are.
See, this is what happens.
Yeah, it was tough on you, but look how successful you are.
He said an interesting thing.
He goes, I was successful despite you.
Yeah.
I would have been successful no matter what.
It'd be nice if I got some fucking love.
But don't think you made me successful by being shitty to me.
You don't get that credit.
I thought that was fire.
It's, yeah.
It's tough because like my entire life, I'm 42 now.
My entire life is just a vendetta against my seventh grade vice principal.
Who you will say by name, right?
His name is Trent Alexopoulos.
He's still alive.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We want him to watch this.
Yeah.
Well, what did Trent do?
He's just a fucking fuck.
And if I ever saw him this day, I would call him out on it.
Now, he said something to you that was fucked.
What was it?
I mean, he said a bunch of things that were fucked to me, but like, you know, the thing that he said to me most, he was like, you're either going to be working at a gas station or you're going to be in prison.
You know, like saying that to a little kid.
It's crazy.
And I'll tell you now that like I work with a lot of kids.
I've volunteered a lot.
I've like got kids, fucking love kids.
Like the most, you don't say that to a kid, to a 12-year-old.
Even though that 12-year-old's fucked up, you don't say that.
You lead them, you guide them, you fucking motivate them, you inspire them.
Even if they're tough, like you figure it out.
You be tough with them.
But you don't fucking disparage in the way that they used to fucking disparage me.
And I say that.
It was like him.
And I remember like my guidance counselor saying bullshit, just like putting me down and putting me down.
And like, cause I was acting out.
Yeah.
And like the antithesis of that, the fucking furthest end of that spectrum is like Dr. Lou Gaborty, my 10th grade, 9th grade, 9th grade English teacher.
Like I remember like when I dropped out of school and I just stopped going to school.
My sister got in touch with me and she's like, look, Mr. Gabordi, before he is a doctor, before he got his PhD, she's like, Mr. Gaborti says if you show up for the final, he'll pass you.
And I was like, I'm not going back to school.
And she comes back a few days later and she's like, look, he says, if you show up any day this week, because there's no school that week, he'll pass you.
And I went in and I sat there and I just remember he was like, he like put the final in front of me, did my best.
I don't know.
He probably gave me a C-minus and he just was like, what's wrong with you?
And I'm like, I couldn't answer.
And he like pushed me and he was like, what's going on?
And I just broke down and started crying.
Wow.
But like, I'll never forget.
He gave you some time.
Yeah.
He was interested in you.
He cared.
Yeah, he cared.
So fuck Trent Alexopoulos.
Do you think part of your excitement to have a kid was to be a better parent than all these people were for you, even if they weren't parents necessarily?
I mean, maybe, but probably not.
All right.
Well, I had a fun theory for a second.
I mean, that would make sense.
That'd be a neat little bow to put on it.
But no, I never thought in those terms.
I never thought in those terms.
After like 30 detentions and like six suspensions, do you sound like a difficult ass kid?
Yeah, yeah.
It wasn't easy.
I invented some fun games too.
Like pass the stapler was one of my greatest games.
I mean, he's a pretty difficult adult, by the way.
So pass the stapler.
It was pass the stapler and take one and pass it down.
What we do is like in the middle of class and the teacher is teaching the lesson, you just take the stapler and you just pass it to someone.
And then somebody's like, pass me a stapler.
And we would keep that going the whole class.
That's so funny.
And the teacher would know.
But you know how fucking funny that is?
No one needed the stapler.
I want to interview Trent Alexopoulos or whatever it is.
And I can't wait for him to be like, yeah, the kid told me his dream was to work in a gas station and to go to jail.
I just believed in the fucking kid.
I bought weed from him.
I thought jail was an option here.
Okay.
So far we've talked about struggle.
A lot of struggle.
A lot of struggle.
When do you taste success?
And more importantly, do you know what to do with it?
Interviewing Bill Clinton Flat Broke00:03:14
Yeah, I mean, yeah, it was like the first gig that we ever got, it was Van and me.
It was never just me.
It was Van and me.
The first gig was like this kind of fancy art collector.
His name's Tom Healy.
I credit so much of what I've been able to do in life to him and his omnipotence.
He's just this wonderful human being, very close to them to this day.
His husband was turning 50.
And he was like, I want to make a birthday video for my husband.
We're going to play it at his birthday dinner.
And I was like, well, I can do that.
Van and I, yeah, we can nail that for you.
And he's like, great.
Let me know how much it costs.
So Van and I met, we're like, it probably costs us like, we're going to need four DV tapes and maybe a new tripod.
So that's like, it's going to cost us like 90 bucks to make.
So what do we charge him?
And we decided on $5,000 because if he said he'd give us $1,000, we're like, that's a win.
So we're like, we can do it for $5,000.
And he's like, done.
Just to give you some context, the dinner was at Lecerque.
You know what I mean?
Like, that is less than like.
He's dropping that on a bottle.
Yeah, exactly.
Like, dropping that in a bottle, no question.
Very, very wealthy couple.
Fred had built $100 million, multiple $100 million businesses with very...
So then he's like, great, here are the list of people to interview and just call these names and we'll set up those interviews.
And the list of people that interview were like Bill Clinton, like heads of state, like fucking business.
And then they're like, oh, shit.
And we like knocked that out of the park.
Like, Bill Clinton was the best.
Wait a minute.
You got to interview Bill?
Yeah.
And that was, he had just left the White House.
He was at his office in Harlem.
I remember we went up there.
We had this really fucking funny idea.
Fred, the guy whose birthday it was, he ran a company called Lillian Vernon.
Lillian Vernon was the biggest mail order catalog in the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s.
It was his mother.
He built that company.
And she was a huge donor to Bill Clinton.
So what we, our idea was that we give him a t-shirt to Bill Clinton, to President Clinton, that says, Lillian, Fred Hochberg turned 50, and all I got was this stupid t-shirt from Lillian Vernon.
That's great.
But we get there and his handlers are like, you want to do what now?
And we're like, we have an idea.
And they're like, no ideas.
You can give me your script.
And I was like, what do you mean, script?
And she's like, the script we received is it says, happy birthday, Fred.
I can't believe you've made it to 50.
That's what we've approved.
You have a different script.
And we're like, nope, we'll do that.
That's fine.
She's like, okay.
And she was very tough with us.
She leaves.
Game time.
Yeah.
Her laptop's open.
Teleprompter's out.
Oh, Ron Burgundy.
Yeah, delete everything.
This is exactly what I'm talking about.
Not thinking about the way percussion.
Whisper actually shut everything down.
He comes in and he sits down.
We're like, good to see you, Mr. President.
And we like, sit down.
Secret Service is like, these fucking guys, who the fuck are you?
We had this little rinky dink camera.
We didn't have a teleprompter.
She had to have their teleprompter.
And she's sitting there.
I just remember her like.
You're interviewing the president on the camera you bought when you were flat broke like 16 years old.
Yeah, we didn't have, we didn't have a lavalier mic.
We just had the onboard.
And she's like, I'm sorry, Mr. President.
And he's like, Jessica, I got to get out of here.
And I was like, Mr. President, I have an idea.
Making Nike Videos on a Budget00:15:00
And like went right at him.
And I just remember like, I remember Secret Service like jumping up.
Yeah.
And like, I like run across with my handout and I was like, here's the idea.
And I was like, we made you this.
And he's like, boys, I love it.
You're recording?
And we're like, yep.
And he like one hit, one take wonder, fucking nails it.
But the video was like a big hit at the dinner.
Yeah.
Like we played at the dinner.
Everybody fucking loved it.
The president was there.
He loved it.
Like it was everywhere.
You need to, because this is something that you keep doing in your life and it's very intriguing to me.
It's a really good idea.
The moments where you could get in trouble or you're doing something naughty, there could be repercussions.
You could be spanked.
You just go for it constantly.
Do you think at all in that moment what could happen if this doesn't go right?
No.
You're just so locked into what could happen if it goes, if it does go right.
And never think about if it goes wrong.
There's never even a consideration.
Okay.
That's never even a message.
I'm not lying to you.
That's a superpower.
Okay.
Okay.
Like doesn't even, there's no, that doesn't even exist.
Interesting.
Yeah.
I mean, what a huge competitive advantage.
And you just always had that your whole life?
Yeah.
Okay.
So you get Clinton, Clinton, all-time charisma guy or what?
Like walks in.
I mean, this is when he was like young.
And like, holy, his swagger.
He had just left the office.
He just left the office.
And if you remember, like, remember what a big deal it was that he had his office in Harlem?
Yeah.
Harlem was like coming up then.
It was beautiful.
And like, he loved it.
And it brought down the house.
So was he there for the actual birthday too?
Yes.
Oh, so everybody's coming up to him.
Yeah.
That's so hilarious.
Yeah, you were the hit of the movie, the whole thing.
And then like, you know, Tom, because he's so great, like, he introduced us to the whole party as these are the guys that made the video.
And it was a lot of art people there.
And a lot of these art collectors came there, like, what do you do?
Like, what are you guys doing?
And then Van and I were like, we went into the fine art world and we started making videos and then calling them fine art.
And we didn't know.
And like, sure, why the fuck not?
And we did make a lot of videos that I think are now art, but we didn't know what we were doing.
And we would just make them because it's all we could afford to make.
Like we did one, it was like a really close-up video of building a little log cabin, if you can imagine, out of matchsticks.
But we're building it on top of an electric burner.
So at some point in time, the whole thing's gonna combust.
And it was this beautiful thing.
We did another one where it's like, if you take mothballs and you put them in vinegar, the mothballs sink, but then bubbles go on them and then they rise.
The bubbles pop and then they fall and they start dancing.
Art.
And we did a bunch of those.
We learned all of those from a book called Mr. Wizards World's Science Experiments You Can Do at Home.
Great book.
And we made them.
Wow.
And we called that series of videos Science Experiments.
Great title.
And we, like an art gallery, was like, I'd like to show that.
Hilarious.
And he showed it at Miami Art Basel, like 2002 or 2003, whatever.
And it was like a big hit.
And we like sold them.
We like sold limited edition DVDs.
You're the first NFT.
Yes.
You fucking created an NFT.
And we sold, like, and then we took stills from it and blew them up.
Yeah.
And we sold those.
And like where we got the money to like blow up those stills, that same like wonderful, incredible human being, Tom Healy, was like, I will bankroll your art career.
And he did.
We did an art show at his house.
And like people came and saw our pictures and our and they bought those.
And this wasn't a lot of money, but this was like enough to keep it going.
Yeah.
And I remember then, like, this is when we got a studio.
This is 2002, I think, maybe 2003.
We got a studio that I'm in now to this day.
And we went there and I was like, I can afford $500.
And she was like, let me show you you can get for $500.
And I remember it was like this little old Chinese woman, because it's in Chinatown.
And she had toilet paper coming out of her panties going down and like attached to her foot.
And like the person that was with Tom Healy was like, looking at these places, just kept nudging me.
And I'm like, I'm not, there's no way I'm going to tell her.
And she showed us all these spaces and they were all awful, no windows.
And she's like, I have one with windows.
And she showed it to us.
It was three times the budget.
And Tom was like, Tom Healy was like, you have to take this place.
And I was like, if we take this place, we have 30 days until we're completely out of money.
And he's like, you'll figure it out.
And I was like, okay.
So he like co-signed the lease, got the place.
So the one time you thought about consequences, that guy next to you was like, don't think about it.
Yeah.
I mean, it was also just like, it was less about the consideration of the consequences, more just being practical.
It was like, I'm not, you know, like, I was thinking 500 bucks and we're good for like three or four months to figure out how to make our next dollar.
And we have 30 days.
And it was like, fucker fight, man.
It was like guns at the back of your head.
What are you going to do?
And to fucking figure it out.
How'd you figure it out?
That's when like we started selling those paintings.
We started doing like turn that into something else, making more art.
People like the art.
Can you do a video project for me?
Yeah.
I mean, like, we started doing videos like, I want to work for Nike.
I want to work for this brand.
Like, remember Truth, the anti-smoking campaign that was like big in the early 2000s?
Like, they wouldn't hire us.
We just started making our own truth videos.
Like, companies that we wanted to work with that would never hire us.
We just would make the fucking commercials and put them on our website and pretend that they had hired us.
That's how I got my first job for Nike.
The Nike video is fantastic.
But the Nike video you're talking about happened 10 years later.
No!
So you made the fake, you make a fake video.
I made a whole bunch of fake Nike videos.
That's Nike first learned about us.
And the first Nike video I ever got was like a guy who had like a tiny discretionary budget and he's like, I like your fake Nike videos.
We're doing a little meetup in the East Village.
Would you make a video for that meetup?
And I was like, fuck yeah, I'll make that.
And it was like a.
Where's the meetup?
I don't remember.
This was like 2005, 2006, but it was at a bike store.
Go, go, go, go.
They were doing like an event.
And I made them this like five-minute Nike video and they played it there.
And like, believe me, from that moment forward, when people were like, what do you do for a living?
I was like, I make Nike commercials.
So you become commercially successful.
In my head, in reality, I had made one $5,000 Nike.
Was it Scratching the Creative Itch?
Like, it's not filmmaking, but it is.
Yeah, I mean, the idea that someone would pay me to do anything with a camera is so, I mean...
Mind-boggling.
Yeah.
Someone's going to write you a check to tell a joke.
When your whole life, you're like, no, no, no, I will literally pay to do it.
Like, I used to drive around to deliver VHS tapes of my videos so people would watch them.
So yeah, it was like, so it was amazing.
And like that just picked up momentum.
Like there was just one opportunity led to another and there were ups and downs.
There were times when Dan and I would get like, I remember we got a Microsoft job when they were trying to compete with YouTube.
Yeah.
And it was $200,000, maybe it was $100,000, but it was something outrageous.
And we knocked it out of the park.
And it was like a home run.
They put on like their Microsoft version of YouTube at the time.
So we saw it.
But it was like that.
We were fucking flush.
We moved into better apartments.
I remember I went out to eat a bunch of times.
And like four months later, it was like, the fuck are we going to eat now?
So it was like that went on for a very long time.
Did you ever have any failures in that strip?
Like someone hit you up, you do the commercial and their account.
And it depends on how you define failures.
I remember like we got a music video and I remember like went to task to land this music video.
Like I did everything I could.
It was on Easy Ease label.
It was like this cool rock band they were bringing up.
We like, I did everything.
And the shoot was a fucking disaster.
And the video objectively sucked.
Like we just, it sucked.
We did not do a good job.
And then, and that just, that hurt.
And then on top of that, the producer stole all of the budget.
He's some two-bit fucking producer from like North Carolina, Virginia, where we shot it.
And it was like, he stole the whole budget.
And like, that was tough.
And how did you, the next time you have your next job, not reminisce on the pain and not fear funding?
I mean, it was like, no, it was like fucking fucker fight.
What are they?
We could go back to Connecticut and wash dishes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, it was like.
Okay.
So at what point do you guys turn the camera on yourselves?
When do you invent vlogging?
Do people know that you guys invented that?
No, I don't think.
I mean, they know that you're the most popular person, but I truly believe that style of filmmaking.
Yeah, well, what was interesting is like, so our HBO show, which was kind of like the first really like cataclysmic break for us.
That was the first like truly life-changing.
And how the HBO show came together is we had met a bunch of people.
One of the people we met was this super cool guy.
You know, Nantucket Nectar's the juice.
Yeah.
Yeah.
He was like from the juice.
Fancy snapple.
Well, a different guy, not the Tom from the art career earlier.
This guy named Tom Scott, another just incredible human being, had just sold that company for a lot of money.
And he started a small like cable access TV channel.
And he's like, make content for us.
And we're like, hell yeah.
And he was like, I'm opening up cable access in Aspen, Colorado.
Will you go to Aspen and make videos about it?
And I was like, fuck yeah, I'll go there and make videos about it.
And he gave us a budget of $20,000.
And he wanted 10 videos for $20,000, which we were like, fuck, that's wonderful.
The only thing we knew about Aspen is what we learned from the movie Dumb and Dumber.
So instead of going to Aspen and making videos, we bought a 1985 Ford Acono line van in two mini bikes that we put in the back and we drove there.
And we made a video that was like a fucking dumb and dumber video of us traveling there.
Like it was all these little vignettes, like at the beginning, how to fucking cheat the DMV to register a car that has no business being registered.
And like car breaks down on the highways.
We go to our mini bikes, like just this wild adventure.
He was like, gave us no creative parameters except he's like, look, this is a respectable channel.
Please be responsible here.
So we called the responsibility tour.
Maybe we called it the respectability tour.
I don't remember.
Van says it's the greatest thing we ever made together.
But that was effectively vlogging.
It was like really in its infancy.
And he loved that we made that, even though no one on his cable access channel had any fucking clue what to do with it.
Are you familiar with the term gonzo journalism?
Yeah, we were big.
I'm a huge fan of Hunter Thompson, like huge.
I've read every one of his books.
That's what I...
Yeah.
We went there.
Like, he was still alive the first time we went there.
And it was like, didn't get to meet him, tried.
But like, that was like, he was a big part of that and why we were doing that.
Putting yourself and making yourself, you know, the forefront of what you're writing about and experiencing it.
And I think that's what you guys have done with vlogging so brilliantly.
Use your experience as sort of the catalyst for the did you guys kind of realize through shooting yourself that you're more interesting than a lot of the subjects that you were shooting before?
It was more like the only way we, and this is true to this day, the only way I know how to communicate interestingness is by sharing how I experienced that interestingness.
Yeah, I don't know.
I can't tell you that that energy drink is good.
I can tell you why I like that energy drink and it'll be compelling, but I can't tell you that it's good.
Every time I've tried, I fucking failed.
Yeah.
But that guy, the guy who's the cable access guy, loved it.
And he was like, let's do something big together.
And he was thinking a future film.
And Van and I were like, look, all we know how to do is make these little videos.
So I went to him and I was like, look, give us this much money and it will cover all of our expenses.
And for a year, all we'll do is make little videos.
And he was like, I don't know what that means, but sure, it was not a lot of money.
And that's what we did.
And for the year, and like six months into it, I remember he's like, I'm going to bring over a friend to see what you guys have done.
And the friend that he brought over was Doug Lyman.
Oh, wow.
Doug Lyman, who made, you know, Swingers, one of my favorite movies ever, but he also made Born Identity.
He's a wildly successful, huge, big deal filmmaker.
And he watches it.
And Doug is not an emotive guy.
You don't know.
And he's watching.
Like when he's watching the screen, we're just staring at him.
And they're like, he does not like this.
And when it's over, he stops and he sort of is quiet.
And he turns to Tom, who just bankrolled this shit.
And he's like, you've got something here.
Oh, wow.
And Van and I were like, what?
And he was like, this is a TV show.
And we're like, oh, okay.
So we started making everything 22 minutes.
We put a tale of credits.
We put a thing at the beginning.
And when we had six of those, we went out to LA and we just started showing it to people.
And most people were like, what the fuck is this?
I remember we met with like one channel and they were like, we could put this on our website.
And this is 2007.
Nobody looked at our website.
Yeah.
And we're like, no, thanks.
That's not right.
And FX really liked it.
They had just signed, It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia.
They had one season.
It was a huge hit.
We liked FX.
They're like, we like it.
Like, there's something we can do with this.
We don't know how we're going to put this on TV, but maybe.
And then we came back and our producer, Christine, called and she's like, HBO really likes this.
And we're like, you're fucking kidding me.
Wow.
Like HBO, like the greatest channel in the US.
This is 2007.
This is Sopranos.
This is Sex in the City.
But also outside of scripted, real sex.
This was like the salad days of HBO.
Yeah, but they were dabbling in a lot of unscripted content that was docu-style.
It was amazing.
It just, it was so next level what they were putting out.
Yeah.
So we went back and we met with them.
And I just remember like that fucking meeting with them.
It was gnarly.
Like their head of content, like she had a chair like yours and the couch that we sat in was like this, but had no legs.
So you sit with your like knees up and you just feel such a fucking LA move.
And I remember we get there and her assistant was like, can I get either of you anything before she comes in?
And Van was like, ham and cheese omelet, chocolate milkshake.
And she was like, I was thinking water.
And he's like, that's fine too.
Great.
That's great.
And yeah, and then they bought the show for a couple million dollars.
And it was like the greatest thing ever.
Insane.
Not so much.
Then they fired the head of the head of content that bought our show.
Yeah.
Fired her like a week later.
They still went through the deal, probably because they had to.
The new head of content didn't get our show, shelved it.
Nobody saw it.
So we tell everybody we know we sold it.
It's like a big deal.
They're like, oh, so it never aired.
For two years, it didn't air.
And then finally, like, we're going to air it.
And they gave us like a $0 marketing budget.
And they aired it on Friday nights at midnight.
And I just remember, like, imagine if you could only watch my YouTube.
Imagine if people could only watch this podcast Friday nights at midnight.
And if they didn't tune in for that window, they didn't get to see this.
And it was fucking soul-crushing.
It was just devastating.
And in that window too, Van and I kind of went our different ways.
I wanted to go more commercial.
The opportunities at that point in time to really make money were more, you know, like they were coming from everywhere.
And I wanted to take advantage of that.
Van was not into that.
So he moved to LA to focus on his art.
We kind of were like on our own then.
And it was tough.
I made like another show that was like the HBO show and I brought it to MTV.
And they loved it.
We want to do this, but we're not sure if it works.
Obviously, you love your brother a lot and you're still close, but was that a contentious point for y'all?
It was tough.
It was really tough.
Yeah, it was super, super, super duper, really hard.
Why could you guys create?
I don't see you being able to create with anybody else telling you what to do.
Why with him does it work?
Just because he was, I just looked up to him so much.
From Prison to Soho00:16:18
So it was just admiration.
Completely.
Completely.
Interesting.
So you think everyone else sucks?
I mean, I don't know.
I don't trust my ability to work with anyone else.
I think I recognize talent everywhere.
But Van was just sort of a genius.
It was very easy for me to follow.
But it got to a point where it was like, you know, we're in our 30s.
We're still young, but I have a fucking kid.
And like, it's fun being broke and young.
Like, it's cool.
And Van, for what it's worth, like, when we came back together and got really close again is when he had a kid.
Ah, he started to understand.
Yeah.
And for the first time in his life, he's like, now it's time for me to figure out how to make a living off of my creativity.
And like, I stepped in and shared with him what I had learned.
Right.
So it was this really funny sort of full circle yin and yang situation.
Yeah.
That's very poetic.
And like we're as close now as we've ever been.
But it was, it was definitely challenging.
I brought the show to MTV.
They fucking loved it.
But they're like, we don't know how this works on TV.
And out of that frustration.
You did it.
Yeah.
I just was like, fuck it, then.
I went on YouTube.
And like a year later, my YouTube channel was doing more views in any one 24-hour period than like every fucking Viacom property that was out.
Wow.
Have New Yorkers shared with you how we feel you represented the city?
Do you feel like New Yorkers, you kind of feel like ours.
I know this is an odd thing to say, but you kind of feel like ours.
I appreciate that.
Not that we own you, but that's our guy.
There's a great moment in a Spider-Man movie that I love.
I don't know which one it is.
And it's when Spider-Man is on the subway and he's trying to stop the subway from going off of like this fake subway track into the water.
And he's shooting these like ropes out and he's basically like Webs or whatever.
He's trying to stop the train and he's about to like fall off.
And I forget that Doc Doc or something like that is trying to like take off his mask.
And all these New Yorkers in the subway step to him because they're like, no, that's our guy.
You know what I mean?
And I think that like when you were on your daily vlog grind, and even now the videos that you put up, I just feel like you've represented the magic of the city so well.
And it is fucking magical.
And I think that people don't really understand that like your community is who you choose it to be.
Whether if it's Marlon, the guy who's at the, you know, delivering your packages or the guy that you meet at the fucking diner, I used to see my father who I admire more than anything in the world, create a community from nothing.
And I think that's the thing a lot of people that don't grow up here don't get.
It's you get to cook your community.
And you fucking did it.
It's impossible to get if you don't experience it.
Because when I we moved to LA, we tried to be with family.
That's why we moved.
All of our family was in LA.
My brother Van, his kid, his wife, like my sister, my other brother, my sister-in-law, their kids, my in-laws, everyone's in LA in a very small area.
But like I, it was like the way I described it, I felt like a hollow man.
I felt like a shell of a human being.
I also felt like a fucking Judas when COVID happened that I wasn't here.
I felt like a fucking, like a, like I felt like such a two-timing, like what do you mean?
What do you mean by that?
No, this is, this isn't.
Because fucking New York City was shit on, man.
Yeah.
New York City was shit on during that time.
And fuck you.
Like, I know what the reality of the city was like then.
And I had a unique ability to communicate that.
Yeah.
Like I could have used my, I would have used every power, every outlet I had to say, no, Everything you're seeing is a fucking lie.
Like, what Marjorie Taylor cut, whatever her name is on fucking Tucker, talking about how fucked up this city is.
Fuck you.
Yeah.
That is not what this city is.
You want to know what this city is?
Go to any subway station, any subway station in all five boroughs, push your fucking stroller up to the stairs, watch what happens.
Yeah, they'll still last one.
You'll last one fucking second and someone.
Yeah.
Whether it's like some fucking 300-pound homeless guy, some old lady, someone's going to pick up that stroller.
They're going to fucking help you out.
Yeah, of course we got criminals.
We have nine fucking million people here.
Some of them are animals.
Yes.
But this city is like that thing.
Yeah.
And it's like my affinity that like fucking Tom Hankson big, the little kid with the fucking poster, page 57 in my fifth grade social studies book, which was a two-page bleed of the New York City skyline that has never faded.
My entire cell phone is pictures of the city.
More pictures of this city than of my children.
My wife is like, please stop talking about the city.
That's all I talk about.
Do you know, you know how like they say like immigrants love America more than Americans many times?
I feel as if my own mother.
Like, and I sometimes it takes someone from the outside to observe the greatness of the city and you coming here at a young enough age where it could kind of like mold your identity, but still having enough time away from it where you got to like lust over it and dream about it.
And I still do.
Like it is.
Like could you do 800 days in a row in LA?
No.
There's no way, dude.
There's just not.
I can't exist.
Like my wife right now is like her in-laws are coming to watch our kids.
She's going to be mad at me when she sees this.
And it's like four days.
We can go anywhere in the world, Casey, romantic trip.
And I'm like, fuck, I got to leave the city, man.
I don't want to leave.
It doesn't get better than this.
When I was a little kid, we go to like family vacations or whatever.
And I remember like being on the airplane, so upset because we have to go back home.
And I hate it as a gray and this is heaven.
I wake up every day.
I woke up at 4.30 this morning.
I do it every fucking day.
You know why?
So I can go run for hours through the city by myself.
I have a game I play all winter long.
The game is to try to get from one end of the Brooklyn Bridge to the other without seeing a single person.
Do you know how hard that is?
You know how fucking hard that is?
How you done it?
Yes.
I did it three times this winter.
That morning was the bomb cyclone where it was 20 below zero and they had warnings about not going outside.
I fucking ran 10 miles because no one else was on the bridge that morning.
That's crazy.
In the snow, in the pouring rain.
Like I fucking love it.
I was out this morning, 13 miles this morning at 4.30 in the morning.
This city is like, I like cannot get enough of it.
It is like fucking heroin and I want it pumped directly into my veins.
And it doesn't fade.
Like when we moved back here last September and I was riding my skateboard around and it was just like, I was like barely holding it together and like not one person, but like the fourth person that yelled out, the king of New York.
And then like the tears were just fucking on my sunglasses, just trying to hide it.
Like I couldn't hold it together, man.
It is like, it is like a woman, a partner, something you've wanted your whole life.
And then you just fucking get it and it's better than you imagined.
Like there's no word, there's no video I can make that shows you how good this city is.
Like it's not my.
This guy loves living in a trailer park, so I get it.
It's not my persistence.
It's not my, anything that I uniquely have, like everything I have was given to me from this city.
Everything.
I had nothing when I came here.
Fucking nothing.
All I had was $1,200 in debt, $2,400 in debt to my brother's girlfriend for that fucking apartment.
That's all I had when I came here.
Nothing.
Everything I have, including my fucked up car, is because of this city.
What do you think is the most misunderstood thing about New York?
Especially for the people that...
I think it's the people.
You know, it's like Los Angeles is a sunny place for shady people.
And I think New York City is like...
People are fucking harsh on the outside and they are so good on the inside.
And personally, I think there's honesty in that trust.
Like, yeah, New Yorkers will fucking stab you in the face, but they'll do it while making eye contact with you.
You know, there's such a truth to that.
You know what you're getting with people.
And when you multiply that to 9 million, like there are some people here that were born here, maybe they don't want to be here.
There are some people here that like they're here by chance.
I get.
But most of the people, especially the people, the fortunate people, like all of us that we get into interact with, they're here because they fucking want to be here.
How many people have you met that was like, I didn't know where I wanted to go after college.
So I just sort of walked by New York City and I was like, oh, I love living in a 200 square foot rat infested apartment for $3,800 a month.
I'm going to stay here forever.
No, everybody is like, I fucking fought to be here.
That's the thing that I don't think a lot of people understand when people who are from New York, they criticize like the apartment size and the stuff in New York.
They're like, why would I want to live in a 600 square foot apartment with like mices and rats or whatever?
And it's like, that's how dope this city is.
You're willing to live with rats and cockroaches in a tiny apartment that doesn't have an oven because of what's around it.
Yeah.
Unintended conflict.
Like my apartment was so shitty, the one with the taco, that I would just sit on my stoop.
I didn't know anybody in the city.
I knew one person, my brother Van.
He had a girlfriend.
I couldn't spend all of his time.
I'd sit on the stoop.
Guess what?
You sit on the stoop.
People walk by.
They say, hi, you meet people.
You make friends.
If I had a nice apartment with a TV, I wouldn't have been on the stoop.
Never met them, yeah.
No, the way I describe it, the way when I visualize it, my head is just like one of those fucking medieval towns or like cities or buildings with like the tallest fence with a moat with alligators.
And if you want to get into that city, you got to swim across that moat and the fucking crocodiles tear off all your clothes.
You got to climb that fence.
There's arrows being shot at you.
You're fucking fucked up.
You've got to leave everything you've got just to get to the top of that fence.
And when you finally fall over on the other side, you stand up and you're like beat up, covered in mud, bloodied, you're stripped naked, you've got nothing.
And you're on the inside.
And if you can fucking figure it out from there, then you get to be here.
And that at scale is what New York City.
Every person you walk by, every fucking waiter, every bartender, every garbage person, like fucking everyone.
Every cop, every person you meet is a part of that.
Fucking Marlon, the delivery guy, everyone.
It's incredible.
Did you change anything?
I mean, you know, I like the subway is safe.
You know, they're working on it.
Yeah, they are.
You know, everybody loves to shit on the NYPD.
It's like, do you not realize that the only thing standing between us and fucking anarchy is the New York City Police Department?
Yes, they need to be better.
Criminal justice, policing, we need to work at that to make it better.
Without them, this is just anarchy.
But no, like it's the city to me just, I don't ever remember it feeling this good.
Really?
Yeah.
Because Bloomberg had it nicer, cleaner, safer.
Yeah.
But every cool place we know was chased out and replaced by a fucking Chase Bank and a Dwayne Reed.
Yeah.
Every one of them.
But then COVID fucked that up good.
And now it's a little bit nasty.
Yeah.
But all those places, all those Dwayne Reeds.
But we're used to nasty.
That's the thing.
That's not shocking to people who've been here.
No, but now we get the cool restaurants.
We get the cool shops.
Do you wish Times Square was like seedier?
I mean, I don't go about 14th Street.
Okay, fair.
But like back in the day, like people were just like, oh yeah, Times Square was shitty and there was crime and this neighborhood was run down.
Do you miss that grittiness?
Yeah.
I don't think people realize like how detached New Yorkers are from Times Square.
It's really not a place that we go to.
So like when people go, oh, Times Square isn't what it used to be.
It's like in the 70s.
Yeah, I spend more time in Cleveland than I do in Times.
Yeah, yeah.
Times Square can look however it wants to look.
They can put M ⁇ M stairs.
Like we don't give a fuck.
Yeah.
It's like when it's like when Houston Street charts start changing, that's when we're like, whoa, whoa, what's happening over here?
Or like the Lower East Side.
Was this fun little edgy place and now it's a little bit more like yuppie and like big high-rises and stuff and I think that's where.
That's where there's often like pushback.
But another thing I learned, I mean I grew up in the East Village.
Like I saw my neighborhood turn over so much that was my expectation of New York.
Yeah, it was turnover.
So I don't I don't get angry when I see neighborhoods change, because I was constantly used to change.
Like I saw my neighbor go from like drug haven to Japanese restaurants.
I don't know what those things have in common.
That happened fast, I remember, but quick quick, real quick, like sex stores, bye weed Japanese restaurants done.
So when we take the kids out, we go to almost exclusively to Chinatown, because Chinatown's kind of like one of the last thing it doesn't change.
And I think it's because like, whatever fucking Chinese mafia situation is holding it down.
Yeah, they're like, nah, we're cool, also New Rise.
Nah, people are afraid to go to go to business there.
Yeah, tentrify somewhere else.
Exactly, you can open up your fucking bookstore in the East Village or Alphabet City.
Don't go near Chinatown, you get fucked up.
Yeah, I love Chinatown.
Plus, they're building one of the biggest prisons in the country, in Chinatown, Central Tombs, Central Books wait, they're building a new one.
No, they're building a mega prison there for whom they're fucking getting rid of uh, prisoners for, like a holding situation.
Yeah, they're trying to get rid of, or at least marginalize, Rikers.
Yeah that's, and to do that they're building new fucking it's not a prison like a jail in all five boroughs, these mega complexes, so you get rid of.
What we're getting is three blocks from here, which is fine by me.
I'd rather if it wasn't, but I get it.
The only thing that bothers me is, during this five years of construction, it's up all my restaurants.
Man not trying center had to go out of business.
Not trying one says he's hanging on by a thread.
Yeah, the poor guy.
Yeah, there's a, there's.
They're thinking about building a halfway house.
This is kind of an interesting thing that's happening in Soho.
I saw that this is so funny.
So in Soho there's a guy who wants to sell his building and he owns a building in like prime Soho okay, and he wants way over the asking price and nobody's willing to pay for it.
So he's essentially holding his neighbors hostage by threatening to sell his whole building to the city where they will then build a halfway house.
Wow, for violent criminals rape murder, assault.
Now all of the neighbors who have dumped millions into their Soho lofts are now going whoa whoa, what do you mean?
Okay, we'll pay you 60 million, even though the building's worth 12 or whatever the fuck it is because the second that halfway house goes up goodbye SOHO.
The greatest deal in all of New York City right now and it's a risk it is a loft on fucking Wooster Street.
Oh yeah, they're up right now and they are half the price that they should be, because everybody on that street is trying to get out, because they think the halfway house is terrifying.
Yeah yeah, and the city wants it.
Of course, the city wants that coverage.
They they, like.
They can't just keep building and I have mixed emotions about this, mainly because i'm like a fucking rich white guy who lives in one of these safe neighborhoods but, like they, they can't just be building these homeless shelters and halfway houses in outer boroughs, like I get it.
It's not fair.
Yeah, what's it Nimby?
Not in my backyard.
So like, so like, cool.
Why don't we just build one in literally the most expensive real estate per square foot in the world?
Imagine going from prison to Soho.
Spritzes at Felix every weekend.
They're like, this is the good life.
Maybe that does rehab them the best.
What if they see the good life and they're like, I don't want to do crime.
I just want to work.
And they can work at one of the restaurants.
They're fucking dishwashing.
They meet people.
Who knows?
This might be.
Turn the whole thing around.
I love that idea.
Yeah, we might have to get into a halfway house.
I might think of a drug addiction just to fucking pop in there.
Prime real estate.
Prime real estate.
So you'll never leave New York again.
No, I'm fucking dying here.
I am never leaving this city.
I love it.
I'm never leaving this city.
And I'll say that, like, no regrets about the three years we spent away.
Yeah.
Because it's like the thing that I like to liken it to is my wife and I, we met and fell in love immediately and then like had a really tumultuous couple years.
We broke up, spent 18 months apart, dated other people.
And then we came back together.
And we often reflect on the fact that, had we not done that, I don't think we would have realized that we can't be with anybody else.
Very romantic.
And had I not moved away to LA, which is like, oh, the beach, family, all these really amazing things, great weather.
I don't think I would have appreciated New York as much as I do now.
Dude, when we were during the pandemic for four months, we moved down to Miami.
The Core of Storytelling00:03:19
And it was amazing.
The city was so welcoming.
People are so incredible there.
And I couldn't write a joke, man.
And I was like, why can't I write a joke?
And it was a really interesting, it was a really interesting just like, I guess, this awareness I started to have about like where my comedy often comes from.
But I needed to be removed from the city to kind of do it.
I appreciate that.
Yeah.
So like coming back into it and starting to like feel the things again, like seeing somebody be really upset over something that I didn't think that they needed to be upset about.
And immediately my brain starts turning.
I'm like, ooh, there's the material.
There it is.
What can I antagonize?
What can I bother people?
I love my IAM and they fucking welcomed us with open arms.
And it was incredible.
I don't regret going down at all, but there's something about this city that inspires creation, man.
I can't step outside.
I step outside of an office, it's punched in the face with a story immediately.
What is a story for you?
Anything it's an interestingness in any capacity.
Break down a story.
Because that's, I think, one of the competitive advantages you have over a lot of the people in your field.
And we talked about the first day that we met when we went out surfing.
And it's the importance of story and understanding the difference between just an adventure and a story.
Yeah, so look, there are rules in the universe.
And like a story is three acts: a beginning, a middle, and an end.
You can apply that to anything.
You can apply that to Jack and Jill.
You can apply that to fucking Godfather.
There's a beginning, a middle, and an end.
There's a setup, a conflict, and a resolution.
That is every story that you've ever been told.
If it doesn't contain those three parts, it wasn't a story.
Setup, conflict, resolution.
Yeah, like that's a cup of water.
That is not a story.
I was thirsty.
I walked around your space.
I got a cup of water.
That's a story.
Set up, conflict, resolution.
There's just three acts.
And so, with me, with every movie I make, I try to make sure that that's there.
And it's not always as deliberate.
Like, I'm not conscious about it.
I'm like, that's a good first act.
That's a good second.
It's just something much more natural.
But in the same way that I can talk about a cup of water, it's like once you start thinking like that, it's also like, like when I see my wife after like her fourth glass of wine and she's telling a funny story about something that happened, as she's telling the story, I'm like, no, you're losing them.
I have too much emphasis on the setup.
You know what I mean?
Like the storyteller in me can't be turned off because I know what a good story is.
And the story doesn't have to be good.
It just has to be told well.
And that's what I would say.
Like, it's not that I live an interesting life.
It's just that I can tell it really well.
What makes a great setup?
I think for me personally, it's when you're inviting the audience in on it with you.
I know when I'm watching a movie and I feel like I'm part of it, then I'm the most excited to keep going.
So the ChatGPT video, which is the last one I uploaded, not one of my best videos at all.
It's just an average Casey video.
The whole point of me reading the script that ChatGPT gave me on a piece of paper, which cost us an extra day because I didn't own a printer, I had to go get one.
And for me to show the audience that I'm holding a piece of paper was just to constantly remind you, the viewer, that, hey, man, you and I, you viewer, me, we're in this together and we're kind of making fun of this silly AI thing.
But you and I are in on the joke.
You're not outside the joke.
If you're watching a movie, if you're hearing a story that you don't get, you feel outside.
It's like two friends telling an inside joke.
Running with the Audience in Joke00:08:20
You feel like a dick bag.
Like, why don't I get to be a part?
So for me, my favorite kinds of stories are ones that bring you in.
It's why like The Godfather is like one of my favorites because I've watched it fucking 7,000 times and I know it.
So I'm with them.
Like I'm with it.
So for me, that's sort of at the core of telling a story.
And when I tell stories, it's like I'm always leaning on my personal experience.
But if I can touch on universalities, I don't know if that's the word, universal subject matter that we've all experienced.
So like, I think like one of my favorite movies I've made recently is like my marathon movie.
That was great.
If you've never run before, I had like strangers stop me on the West Side Highway being like, I don't know you.
Your video made me cry.
And it's about me failing running a marathon.
I've run 25 marathons.
That was my worst race ever.
You didn't fail though.
You persevered.
You just didn't run it as fast.
That's right.
I did not achieve my objectives.
I finished because I'm not a fucking asshole.
But like that movie, as I'm editing that movie, especially because it did not turn out as I expected, I wanted it to be this movie of triumph, like where I finally achieved a goal I've been trying to achieve for 25 attempts.
As I'm making it, I'm like, you know what?
The struggle, as I'm going through all my first, I'm like, the struggle is so much more interesting than the victory.
Because we've all been there.
We've all had our asses kicked before.
Not everybody has run a really fast marathon.
Like that's not, that's not so universal.
But like this idea of just getting beaten down and having to fucking, you get that eight count.
You get back up and you're like, fuck no, I'm not taking this.
And you just stand up and start swinging again.
We've all been there.
So that's what I try to zero.
There's also a message of accountability in that that was just kind of cool to see is you cut in the middle of him running a marathon.
He cuts to the day before and he goes, all right, here's my target time.
I could have hit that target time, but I didn't train hard enough.
So I'm probably going to be, and then he has like a graph with like a kind of shitty time for him.
He's like, I'm probably going to be somewhere closer to here and it's my fucking fault.
And then he cuts back to the race and it's him immediately being like, God damn it, dude, I need to walk this mile.
And it's just like a cool, like, I don't know.
I thought it was a really cool way of telling the story of also holding yourself accountable.
Yeah, like those, to me, those are like devices.
Those are devices to communicate those universal subjects.
I mean, like the day you and I went surfing, that like no one surfs.
No one surfs.
You know what I mean?
Like there's not that many people that surf.
And then there's like, no one lives in New York City.
No one even knows their surf.
So what's interesting about that?
The only thing that's compelling about that video is the chemistry between you, me, Dean, like the group in the car.
Yeah.
Like it was just fucking fun.
Dean, like this stick up guy was like kind of stiff.
None of us are good surfers.
We're just out there getting up, fucking trying not to drown.
The surf footage wasn't even that good.
But it was like getting to see three fucking dope dopes.
I don't mean dope isn't cool, like fucking idiots.
Like we're grown-ass men going to have a fun time playing in the water.
Look at us go.
We're taking it seriously.
That is like, that's, I get that.
You had a good observation when you were putting the movie together.
You're like, they don't really care about the surfing.
I go, what do you mean?
He goes, watching the greatest surfers in the world is boring.
They don't care about us doing it.
No.
It's the story around it.
Yeah, it's that chemistry, that's fun.
It's why like nobody cares about me going to get a smoothie.
But that was like, that happened to probably 200 of my 800 vlogs.
I like to do that every morning.
But it's like seeing that that's my thing every day, seeing that I have to have a little relationship with the girls that make it and the owner of the place.
And like, they eventually put my fucking face up on the wall of Juice Press, which my friend then sold.
My face is still up.
All I got for that was a fucking hot sauce.
Fuck.
I love your video with the drone and like the mission of you having to get it back.
I love that.
That's like one of my favorite videos I've ever made.
I love that.
Because it was just stupid.
It was the most inconsequential nothingness.
But like, we've all been obsessed about something that is meaningless to everyone else.
Yeah.
No one gives a shit.
But if you care and you can communicate that, that's exciting.
Yeah.
Like that's fun.
That's fucking great.
And like for me, New York City is that everywhere I go.
Like one of my favorite videos I've made this year is about, I think it's called like New York City Insanity.
It has some generic title like that.
Which is me hanging around the city doing nothing.
And like I linked up with that kid who takes the city bikes off of jumps and stuff.
Oh yeah, city bike boys.
Yeah, he's a G, by the way.
But like other shit happens.
And my favorite scene in that is when he's trying to jump a garbage can.
And this woman, you know, the city does this thing where they give people who don't have access to jobs.
They give them jobs changing garbage bags and things like that.
One of those nonprofits, this woman comes over, she's this old lady, and the garbage can't in the middle of the fucking street with a jump in front of it.
And she goes up to it and she starts changing the bag.
And I'm like, man, man, man, I was like, I was like, no, no, no, no, we're just, we're filling.
And she's like, what are you doing?
And I'm like, if you could just take a step back.
She's like, all right.
She steps back and he fucking launches the bike.
She's like, oh, get him to do it again.
Get him.
Get him.
Get him to do it again.
And like, it wasn't mad because she was because she's trying to do her job.
She wasn't pissed off because she's like got a tough, tough, she had dealt with a tough hand.
Yeah.
And we're goofing off.
She was just psyched.
Yeah.
She was fucked.
And I was like, that's the movie.
Like, that energy is the movie.
Like, at the end of that video, there's a thing where he's in the East Village and he's jumping the bike and he's like going up the wall and smashing off the bars of someone's fucking bedroom window and doing a wall ride.
And he does that.
And all of a sudden the window comes flying open and the girl goes, what the fuck was that?
And he does it again.
She goes, this is awesome.
And she comes out to watch it.
And it's just like, my God.
Like, I'm editing that video and I'm like fucking applauding the whole time.
And he's like, I want to do a bigger jump.
And I was like, what do you need?
He's like, I need wood.
And I was like, where did I get wood?
And he's like, maybe a scaffold.
And we find guys putting up a scaffolding.
And I was like, can we borrow?
But you know, they're like, you're the YouTuber.
And I was like, yeah, yeah.
And I was like, can I borrow something?
I'm like, we'll set it up for you.
Fucking construction workers hired to put up scaffolding.
They're in the middle of 4th Street building ramps for us.
We broke one.
They were psyched.
Like that thing, like that for me is like, when I say a story punches me in the face, it's like that woman trying to change a garbage bag.
I see that and I'm like, the world needs to know about you.
You're the spike of YouTube, bro.
Yeah.
I'll take this.
The love that you get in New York, bro.
This city, it is my muse on a level that's like, I fall asleep thinking about this.
Like the apartment we live in right now, all I remember about it when we went and looked at the apartment was the view.
And I remember we moved in and I was like, Candace, this place is really nice.
And she's like, you looked at it three times.
And all I did, we looked straight to the window, like facing the guys.
And I'm like, how do you come to this window?
If you push your face against the glass like that, deep breath, close your left eye, you can see the Empire State Building.
Like that, no joke.
Are you ever a victim of your own success in the city?
Because so much of the beauty of your movies is the authenticity.
But when people are around you, because you're so successful, so famous now, it might be difficult to be authentic.
I mean, New Yorkers are so like, there's this video going around today of what's his name?
It's Dick?
Yeah.
Dick Dick?
Come on, the comedian.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And see him.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And he, like, kind of flips out and like hits some.
That dude was a pain in the ass.
He was harassing.
That's what I'm saying.
Stop, yeah.
That happens so seldom.
Yeah.
In this most.
New Yorkers are good about that.
The reason why you know it's a New Yorker, you know it's a tourist.
The tourist comes running up.
It's like, can I get a selfie?
Joshua, come here.
He said it's fine, Joshua.
Sorry to interrupt.
Joshua.
And like, that's a tourist.
A New Yorker goes to the bottom.
New Yorkers are like, oh, yo, I fuck with your content.
Yeah.
And then they take off.
They want nothing from you.
And like, I love that.
I was watching a pod you did right before you moved back here.
And you said, the second time I do New York, I know how to do it and not be so, I think it was like consumed by the work.
Have you been able to do New York in a quote-unquote better way the second time?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm better at doing New York.
Riding the Daily Content Wave00:03:03
I'm not as good at working.
And I struggle with that.
What do you mean?
I mean, like, for me, it's like, it's like if you're a ditch digger, I've been a ditch digger.
If you're a ditch digger, you start digging a ditch, you throw the shovel down, go get lunch, go to sleep, go to fucking Hawaii, come back a week later, ditch is right where you left it.
Pick the shovel up, you go back.
But for me, making videos is more like Sisyphus pushing that fucking stone up the hill where it's like the minute I stop pushing, it rolls down my back to the bottom.
If I go away and come back, I'm at the bottom of the hill.
And every time it's like starting from, it's very hard to find that momentum.
So if it's every day I got to post a video, I can ride that wave.
Like till I'm fucking dead.
I will ride that wave.
You can't just pop in every few weeks and make something.
And that was the strain the first time, right?
That's why you had to leave New York.
Yeah.
It's kind of a compulsivity that is like, can be sublimated.
It can be harnessed in a really positive way.
But turning it on and off is so fucking hard for me.
So what do you do?
Well, luckily, like, I don't have, I'm very fortunate not to have the financial burden.
Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, suggestion.
Do you just work on longer projects?
So you always have something to work on.
I can't do long projects either.
Really?
Don't have the attention span.
Interesting.
None.
And I don't like it.
I like to make, I like to, I love the instant gratification of YouTube.
That's not just making a video in a day or two or in a week, but then releasing it to an audience and then within seconds.
Yeah.
Feeling that.
Knowing that people are viewing it and then you get to see them talking about it.
That's why stand-ups like stand-ups.
It's kind of a joke.
And like that feeling that gives me, I've worked on long projects.
I've made shows that take a year plus.
I made movies that take years and years and years.
Like, no, this is what I love.
But that on and off switch, I underestimated how challenging it would be.
And it's what, like, we were talking about earlier, like, I have these things that I want to do, but it requires me hiring people.
Yeah.
If I have somebody working for, immediately my focus is on management, getting the most out of our professional relations.
And like, I'm not making movies.
Yeah.
So like sitting in my office alone, it's why I don't do meetings, why I don't do phone calls.
It's why I've been blowing you off to do this podcast for how many months now?
Like it just means I know.
It's like, well, I'll get something done in the morning, take a quick break, come back to it.
It's like, no, the day's gone, most likely the week's gone.
Yeah.
And so finding that balance has been challenging, but I think like I'm getting, I'm getting much better.
Yeah, because if the options are I do a vlog every day, it puts a strain on my marriage, or I don't really know how to work.
It's an important balance to find, I would assume, because clearly.
Yeah, it's existential.
I'm also just so good at fucking off because I can be so busy and do nothing.
I made a plywood computer.
It took me three weeks.
There's no ROI on that.
There's nothing.
I just was like my laptop and then I've got a monitor and my hard drive and then there's my mouse.
I'm like, it's like my whole table has all this shit on it.
I was like, what I want is like a unit that's self-contained.
I started drawing it up and I was like, I'll have this done by dinner.
Three weeks later.
Building a Plywood Computer System00:03:27
Just like that.
It's amazing.
You should see my plywood computer.
It's got a fucking handle on it, like a boom box.
Three weeks.
This is in LA or this is here?
This is my office.
Oh, wow.
I wanted to build a tree fort for my kids in my office.
This is what you blew off the fucking podcast for?
Yeah.
Little arts and crafts farming.
You should see the tree fort I built for the girls.
It's unbelievable.
They've got a patio.
I can't wait.
They've got carpet.
They've got TV up there.
They've got a system like fucking Swiss Family Robinson's where they can pull up their food on pulleys.
The kids come from my office.
I got a place to chill now.
No return on that investment.
That was months.
Well, that's kids' happiness.
The plywood computer is big on the bus.
It's my happiness.
Also, like, sometimes, like, I got a TV in my office.
You could just click play on anything.
You just go to HBOMax.com.
You know how many movies are on there?
No one's telling me not to.
Is your TV show on there?
Damn, yo.
That's fucking shit.
That's rough.
It doesn't even cost them anything to put it up.
I know.
Well, technically, they lost their window was like five years, so I got it back.
So I could do something.
Oh, shit.
I just don't have to relicense all those songs.
Yeah, that's kind of annoying.
Van's done some stuff with it.
He did.
Yeah, he's put out like segments of it that were really intimate to him, and he's contextualized them and things like that.
Yeah.
I always think about revisiting it, but like, like I was telling the story about the rocket ship and my wife and like how that fucks me up.
Yeah.
If I start watching videos from 2007, like I will lose myself.
Really?
Oh, yeah.
Why, why?
I don't know, the same way that I have photo albums in my office from like back in the day.
I used to point and shoot instead of like four iPhones and stuff.
And if I start looking at those pictures, day's gone.
Yeah.
Get lost in it.
Interesting.
Like I love, like, nostalgia is my favorite emotion.
So if I can like start.
The best app on the iPhone is the photo app.
If I can conjure nostalgia, I'll just, like, a warm hot tub, just fucking eat.
I love it.
If I can make myself cry, make myself smile.
You're the best.
It's like if I need to pull up a video, like I have every shot that I've ever taken back to like 2012, I can pull it up within minutes.
It's so perfectly catalyst, like Dewey Decimal System across the board.
You have all the raw footage.
Everything.
Never deleted a clip.
And when I need to do that, it takes me five minutes to find the clip and then eight or nine hours of watching old video clips.
So, yeah.
So if I start watching the HBO show, I'm going to lose.
Like Van keeps telling me to watch the Respectability Tour.
He's like, it's so good.
And I don't remember it.
I remember broad strokes, but I don't remember the specifics of it.
I'm curious.
What's the story behind the glasses?
Well, I started, I mean, there's a number of answers, but the most honest one is just like one time somebody asked Jack Nicholson, like, why do you wear sunglasses indoors?
And Jack Nicholson's like, without my sunglasses, I'm just another fat old guy.
And with my sunglasses, I'm Jack Nicholson.
So me, without my sunglasses, I'm just like a funny looking guy.
And with my sunglasses, I'm Jack Nicholson.
So you're trying to be Jack Nicholson, really, just at the end of the day.
Yeah, but the reason why it started was because, like, and I've made a video about this, but like, if you look at your cameras there, if you flip around the screen so it faces you, like, all, it's one of my least favorite things about when YouTubers do.
They're talking to camera, but their line of sight is off.
Angles and Supermodel Selfies00:15:30
Yeah.
It's just like, it means they're watching themselves.
And it's like, you fucking vain monster.
You're pretending to talk to me.
I know you're looking at yourself and fixing your fucking hair.
So I can keep my face to camera, but my eyes are over here.
So I did it for like a really practical reason.
Oh, wow.
Hide your vanity.
Yeah.
And then it just, or just to make me seem more authentic.
You know, like I'm actually checking my framing at all times, but it looks like I'm looking in the lens.
But then it just kind of became part of it.
And then I just owned it.
And then if you really want to go deep, what my therapist said before I fired her was the glasses are a way of like never having to like really put my real self out there.
It's like a way of always keeping like a layer between me and the world.
Which is healthy, really.
I think so.
I think it's beautiful, but that sounds way too like intellectualized.
That's kind of the point of your documentary that you made though is like this thing can swallow you up and there needs to be some, you need to be somewhat grounded in this world of vlogging and all that.
So these sunglasses provide me with that.
Yeah.
Good job firing her.
I think that we've realized she's a fucking idiot.
Lady, I don't pay you to tell me the truth.
Just make me feel good.
Just numb on you and then give me those scripts and let me leave.
People have been good to you.
All the stories you've told me so far, barring one, and that's some stuff with family at home, are about people that let you live with them, people you moved in on, people were there for you in a situation where you were in need and they've constantly looked out for you.
People you observe in the city.
You find these amazing characters and people doing the most mundane things like changing a garbage can.
It's quite interesting that you come from a situation that's quite tumultuous.
Your parents, you could have a lot of resentment for what you saw, yet you find so much love and appreciation in humanity.
Like it seems like everything that you've curated is, look how awesome these people I get to interact with on a daily basis are.
What do you think about us as a species, as human beings?
Most people are awesome.
Yeah.
Like I think most people are just fucking great.
Almost everyone.
Like you travel around the world.
Like everyone's fucking great.
Sorry if you get like a little bit of fame.
Oh my God.
Yeah, yeah, they get really nice.
Like I know you asked a sincere question, but like the one thing about fame has a lot of bad sides, but the one thing about fame is I get to understand what it must be like to be a really fucking beautiful woman.
You know what I mean?
Like you spend time with a beautiful woman.
And I don't mean like a normal woman.
I mean like a supermodel.
Like I'm friends.
I know some.
And like everyone stares.
You show up at a restaurant.
It's like, of course we have a table for like whatever you need.
The fucking C parts when you're that beautiful of a woman.
I have to give you pushback here.
People respect you.
I was not taking this to a place of it's my looks, grant me the privilege.
No, my point is the way that they're treating those supermodels has nothing to do with them respecting their brains, respecting their creativity.
No, I appreciate that.
Nothing.
The reason why you're getting that love, like if I was one of those supermodels, I would fucking hate it.
I'd resent all of them.
I'd be like, you just think I'm a whole.
Everybody wants to just fuck me.
Whereas they like what you do and what you create and the way that you make them feel.
That's why you're getting that kindness.
That's why you're getting that warmth.
They're giving it back to you.
You've made them feel that way.
Well, I appreciate that.
And I was going to just fucking put an asterisk at the end of the supermodel thing, which is like, I understand there's a lot of negativity to that.
I think Brooke Shields, maybe some famous, beautiful who's now older, wrote a whole book.
I was just reading the synopsis in the New York Times about how hard it was to be young and beautiful because that's all you're ever judged for.
She was awesome.
This is an experience I know nothing about.
That was Steve.
No, you're awesome.
I have never had to worry about being judged for my beauty.
But like, no, and that what you're describing is real.
And like, like my fucking, the guy in my garage who parks my car, like, he knows my videos.
Like, yesterday we're in New Jersey bringing my kids back from a water park.
And like, we pull up to get gas and like the window goes down.
I was like, hey, can you fill it up with regular, please, sir?
And he's like, yeah, YouTube.
And I was like, yes.
And he was like, psyched.
And like, no, I love that.
You get the best version of people.
Norm McDonald had a great observation about it.
He's like, my life has been so incredible because the people have been excited to meet me constantly throughout my life.
And I get the best version of they're happy.
They're smiling.
Like most people go through their day and they're kind of frustrated, maybe angry.
They're disappointed at things they had to go through.
But when they meet me, they smile.
So for me to complain about fame would be fucking ridiculous.
And I loved that take because it's so easy for like celebs to get caught up in this, oh, someone asked me for a picture when I didn't want to take one.
It's just like, that is the focus, not the fact that you get joy from every human being that you meet.
Yeah.
I mean, I probably take, depending on how much I'm outside, you know, I take a lot of selfies, always happy to.
And like, I can think of one.
I've said no.
I say no.
When I'm with my kids, I say no.
Yeah.
So it means taking my eyes off of my children.
Yeah.
And it's just like the idea that something could happen in that moment.
Yeah.
But like, there's only been one time where like it's, there's been like an incident because I've said no.
What happened?
We were at Ikea and Franny was like a little newborn baby.
She's like two months old.
And she's hysterically crying.
And there was like this grown man.
He wasn't a child, grown man.
And he was like harassing me for a picture.
I was like, I'm really sorry, sir.
I'm with the kid.
And he's like, I'm with my baby and the baby is screaming.
And like, you're red in the face.
The wife's freaking out.
And it's like all this.
And he just was so persistent.
He was like, I just want a picture.
And he was like, and then he got like a little bit of Candace started freaking out at him.
And he got aggressive about that.
And there's a baby.
And it was just like that moment was really, like, I remember that moment.
That's once.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like five selfies today.
That was once.
Like, it's a.
I've only said no to a picture one time.
It'll change when you have kids.
The kid thing is completely different.
But it was just someone who said, they said, they're like, yo.
And I was like, what's up, man?
And then they went, yo, come here.
They were like sitting down and I was walking.
And I was like, that's not how this goes.
It was something about the person didn't even know my name.
And I'm walking down the street.
Yo, get over here while I'm having my pasta in my hand.
And I was like, yeah, that's that.
You know who's the best at that?
It's Logan Paul.
Really?
He delivers his no's, which are much more like, go fuck yourself.
Yeah.
With such like grace and charm.
Yeah.
But it's unbelievable.
Like I was with him in, like, we're at the beach.
Yeah.
And this mom comes over and she's like, I want you to take a picture with my kids.
Yeah.
And the way he shut her down was unbelievable.
Where I promise you, she left being like, he was hysterical.
Let me tell you the story.
Oh, really?
But it was so well done.
And he is so crass about it.
Given his fans are all like, it's a much younger, much more male demo.
Like mine, mine are all like adults.
Yeah.
And it's harder with adults because there is a level of respect and appreciation.
His are just fucking kids.
Yeah.
But like he is so good and so funny about that.
It is like it is a trait to be admired.
Do you remember what he told the lady?
No, but I remember when he went away and then the kids came back and they're like, you're just talking to my mom.
He's like, kid, how old's your mom?
And like that shut the kids up.
Really good.
You know what I mean?
He's like, good.
He's just good about that stuff.
Oh, that's funny.
You guys are charming.
Yeah.
Taking the picture.
I don't know.
It just seems like such a little thing.
I literally never say no.
I just feel like it's the tiniest.
You stop.
When people touch me, it's hard.
Don't like when somebody puts their arm around you, that's a little bit, yeah.
People touch you by the side, it makes you very uncomfortable.
Pull you in, yeah.
Yeah, I don't know what it is.
It's just a hot supermodel, like when you can smell someone's breath, it's oh, you have like a proximity thing, dude.
Nothing is than like when I'm like arguing with my wife and somebody comes up and asks for a picture, and I'm like, I'd be more than happy to let her know how lucky she is, right?
Did you say that?
Take another, and then I make my wife take it.
She's not busy.
Oh my gosh.
I do.
I do.
I do have a technique that I would encourage you to embrace.
Yeah.
I estimate that I've reclaimed years' worth of my life.
You take the picture.
Always.
Always.
I do the same thing.
I tear the phone out of their hand with like a fucking 42nd Street fucking pickpocketers level of precision with aggression.
Yep.
Let's violence.
I pull it out of there.
Most people, like, especially when they're like from the Midwest, they're here on vacation.
Oh, how do I get my phone?
They're not used to having their phone.
Yeah.
I can open any phone.
Android, flip phone, iPhone, any jet.
I can get it to selfie faster than you can.
Because the worst thing in the world is a stranger, they take out their phone, they get their face next to yours, and they're waiting for something.
Oh, yeah.
And you're like, hands shaking.
They're nervous.
What the fuck are you waiting for right now?
I can see they can taste your breath.
They're waiting for like the right frame or for both of you.
They don't take selfies.
What kind of a sociopath normally takes selfies?
All women at Coachella.
But if you do it, it's just like I can be in and out in a second.
Because I don't give a shit if you have a bad picture.
Yeah.
I know I look good, Nick.
I know exactly.
I know my angle.
I know my angle.
That's why you really do.
You get the arm far away, never low down, never close.
Boom, And usually their mouth is open asking me mid-question.
Gone, back in their hand, and I'm out.
The other thing, too, is when someone comes up and they're like, it's such like, I've always wanted to meet you.
And I just, it's like, brother, I appreciate you, but I know you're here for the picture.
Oh, you know what I mean?
Sometimes they're not like in my seldom, sometimes.
But we're talking like minuscule percentage points here.
Most of the time, it's just what they want.
And I understand.
It's like, I think it's very respectful.
They want to be respectful and have a conversation, not make it a transaction.
Yeah.
But I want to get back to one.
You want the transaction.
Yeah, just because I'm deficiency.
I'm in the middle of something.
Yes.
So, and it's, it's no big deal.
I'm not trying to be insulting or anything like that.
I respect them the same way.
But it's just like, I'll be like, you want a picture?
And they're like, oh, I'd love one.
I didn't know if I should.
And it's like, yeah.
So it's like, if I can take that burden away from the awkwardness of this.
That's very cool of you.
Yeah.
You just say it because you can tell they're a little shy.
I remember I was at the airport with my wife and there was a, she takes those Peloton classes.
There was an instructor that she like loves.
And then I was like, say something to her.
And then my wife was like, hey, hi.
And she's like kind of nervous.
And the girl just goes, hi, which I get.
That was a little awkward.
And then my wife was like, I just want to let you know I really love taking your classes.
And it's really nice to meet you.
And then the girl goes, okay.
And then I was like, yo, you're a, I mean, like, I've seen this guy.
I get recognized sometimes.
I've seen this guy get recognized thousands of times.
Always humility, magnanimity, or however you say it, same with you.
And then when someone does that, you look at them forever and you're just like, yo, you suck.
Yeah, how's that Peloton stock doing now?
There you go.
There you go.
It goes like this.
Those moments for those people, for someone who takes all that guts to go up and ask for, they're going to remember that for the rest of your life.
So even though you're going to forget about it in a second with respect, like it's, you know, you do it a lot and it's, they're a stranger to you, but you're not a stranger to them.
Yeah.
So no, I would say, yeah, with very few, and even when I'm with my kids, I don't say no.
I say not when I'm with my children.
Yeah.
And if someone doesn't understand that, then they can just go fuck themselves and I don't care.
But at least in that moment, they're like, no, he was with his kids.
You get a selfie?
No, he's with his kids.
Yeah.
You know?
Have your kids ever been like, why do you take the pictures when they're hot?
Do they say that?
Like, I thought you don't take pictures, daddy.
But then when they're hot, you have huge fat tits.
Like, all of a sudden, you have time.
I do find myself, I do find myself almost always being nicer to girls than to men because I men.
I told you that YouTube that way.
Men are weird.
You're so weird.
The men are more damned.
Oh, it's a threat.
A drone isn't in.
Is it threatening?
It's scary.
Versus like a lovely young girl.
A girl's horrible breath.
You're like, is that Brie?
Did you have blue cheese for lunch?
Wow.
You know, my kids, my older daughter, not only does she recognize it, but she has since figured out who I am on YouTube.
Oh, so she's watching.
Yes.
She watches all the old videos to break down and understand her.
I don't know that it's awesome.
Call me in like 10 years and I will let you know.
But like she's figured it out.
And then also like our kids aren't allowed to have social media.
We never post their picture.
We get mad at my mother-in-law when she posts my kids on Facebook.
Like it's just because we want them to have a fighting chance, man.
We're just fucking trying here.
And my little daughter, like when someone asks for a selfie, she wants to be in it.
Oh.
Because she wants to be a part of it.
So it's like literally, there are so many pictures of the top of her head jumping up to try to be able to just her little blonde hair comes in.
So I'm like, they're like, can I have a selfie?
And I'll be like, not when I'm, and if it's a kid, it's so, it's a grown man, like, not when I'm with, when it's like an eight-year-old, it's like, and I'm with Franny and she's like, you can have a picture.
You can have a picture with my dad.
And it's like, all right, come here.
And then the kid comes over and like a smart town's picture and Franny like sticks her face in it and I have to like push her head like movies like put my hand in front of her face and take the picture.
But it's like for her, it's it's become normal.
Yeah.
That's exciting.
Yes.
I don't know how that's going to manifest in adulthood for her.
But we try really hard to predict.
Do you have questions about the old movies?
And like, oh, what about when you and mom were doing this?
And she can quote them.
Does she ask you difficult questions that you can't really answer?
Sometimes.
She's not allowed to watch my videos in front of me.
And my wife enforces that too.
It's just too much, man.
It's just fucking too much.
Does your wife ever show her videos and be like, see, he's a dick?
Like, you don't know he's a dick because you didn't watch his video, but look what he's doing.
No, she doesn't need to.
She just, she doesn't.
My wife has plenty of videos.
We had children and he was trying to get into bike accidents.
Do you think that she could?
My wife has unlimited material beyond the videos for that.
But no, it's just strange.
And my wife recognizes the strangeness of it.
So no, like we, she still watches the videos and will like pick out details.
And like, especially when she, when she was a little baby, she was in the videos.
And when she started, like, babies all look the same when they're babies.
And when she started to look a little bit more distinct, like nine months.
We want to maintain the anonymity.
As much as we can.
I think this is your fault.
My wife loves these ASMR videos.
And I think they're so popular because they all kind of steal your style of editing, which is like, open the door, put the toothbrush in the door, close the door, shot, cha, cha.
Maintaining Wife Anonymity00:07:44
You're cooking.
Here's the onion.
Chop the onion.
Put the onion on the thing.
I watch your videos and I was like, this motherfucker is the reason these ASMR videos are successful and they are ruining my marriage.
There's something like...
Maybe she just wants you to whisper.
Maybe she's so fucking loud.
Lower your voice.
Chill out.
There is something, there is something very like calming about watching process-based videos.
Dude, I can't.
I go nuts.
You don't have the attention to Penfold?
I don't.
It's something that my skin is crawling as it's happening.
I'm like, yo, get to something, please.
Isn't ASMR when they're like fucking chewing on TikToks with a microphone?
I think that's, oh, that's, but there's Where they're like cooking, and you like hear everything very crackling of the onions and the oil.
Yeah, there's like a guy who goes camping.
I love that dude.
I watch those videos all the time.
Prune of technology.
No, no talk.
No, no.
He's just setting up his shit.
It's the best.
I have a few of those guys that I watch.
Me too.
And they're just 20-minute videos setting it up.
And he's like, opens up his little folding stove and he's like making rice with not a word.
Not a single fucking people.
And I'm upset that I can't remember the name of the guy right now because I want to give him a shot.
Shout out what?
Men with the pot.
No, no, there's another guy who cooks out in nature.
Have you seen this guy with like the kind of blade knife?
It's like a square, almost kind of butcher blade knife.
Those are cooler than this guy.
The guy that I watch, he has the same car as me.
Like, probably like Land Rover Defender Camping, AMSR, Ace, SMRR.
Yeah.
And like, it's just the process.
And it's so calming.
So nice.
Your fucking heart rate slows down.
Fuck, I don't know, man.
No, that's not it.
Oh, God.
Make it stop.
Camp, camping, AMA.
In any event, he's great.
There's a guy that also creates, it's not just camping.
Like, he doesn't put up the tents and stuff.
He like creates structures to sleep in.
So he'll do it in a cave.
He'll do it.
Oh, I like that.
It is.
Fucking maybe.
What's it called?
Maybe.
Let me see.
This is the same genre, but I don't think it's this guy.
This is GoFundMe.
Go 4x4.
He's got a Jeep.
He drives a Jeep.
Yeah, but this is the same vibe.
Yeah.
This is like I fucking.
The whole point's the volume.
Yeah, I know.
Oh, okay.
Oh, my God.
He gets so irritated.
This is why he can't work with anybody else.
You're getting me, dude.
No, no, this guy's got music.
Yeah, this fucking music's wrecking this.
It's wrecking.
No, no, no.
You'd have more.
Oh, wait, no, the music's gone.
This.
I'll watch this for days.
I'm already, dude, I can't.
You know what I mean?
Like, I'm there with him, maybe.
Do you like camping?
I mean, I've never been camping, but I imagine.
Isn't that crazy?
I mean, I drove across country and slept in my truck the whole way.
It's not gone.
But I've never done this, but like, this is camping.
I'll watch this for like an hour.
Do you watch the winter stuff?
Sometimes I'll watch the winter stuff.
Okay, there's this one channel.
It's like these two girls.
They know exactly what they're doing with how they dress.
But they do this.
You know what I mean?
There's no accidents in how they're dressed or the random thumbnails they pick.
Of course, of course.
But it's that plus very attractive young women instead of the game.
Going down the rabbit hole.
You're about to be in like the van life videos with the girls.
Have you watched those yet?
That's crazy.
I just did.
It's a very slippery slope.
But no, I've been deleting my Instagram.
I followed way too many attractive women camping.
It's just a combination of things that I find compelling.
Yes.
You want to watch a man camp or you want to watch a woman camp?
Well, it's just to find a very healthier process to just simply watch men camp.
Yes.
My focus is on the camping right where it should be.
Yes.
So all the people that want the daily vlogs back, it's the girls camping.
That's what stops.
That's why I'm going to do it.
That's why Instagram, yes.
It's just, I am highly susceptible to distractions.
Would you ever do that again?
The daily vlog?
I don't know.
I don't know that I'm capable of it, but I do fan.
What are you doing?
I'm just looking at some stops.
Jesus Christ.
What?
Forgive me.
I was just looking.
Put that away.
There's no way this is even.
Oh, I can.
This is camping.
Come on, Casey.
This is like thanks YouTube algorithm.
I just wanted to watch a guy set up his Jeep.
I can get distracted by this.
Oh, wow.
Jesus Christ.
Yeah.
So, in any event.
Oh, look at that split.
So in any event.
Oh, God.
Slippery slope.
I'll tell you what else is slippery.
Yes.
Oh, dude, this is a video.
And the podcast is a little bit different.
This podcast has just fucking segregated.
I just want to sip out of that.
Now there's five dudes just watching women crazy.
She does yoga?
Let's go, dude.
Camping is awesome.
Did you think for a second she wasn't going to do the yoga?
I was on the fence.
Did that even cross your mind that she might not?
Oh, my goodness.
That's how you sit down.
Wow.
Can you please close the solo teddy?
See how distracted?
Whoa, that frame.
That's the thumbnail.
That is just.
That is the thumbnail.
What is her name?
I don't know.
Yeah, Solo Teddy.
Solo Teddy.
Gotcha.
Okay, good.
Good.
Well, listen, Casey.
Do you have any other YouTube suggestions before we get out of here?
Great talk.
Yeah.
Good sports.
Should we check out WikiFeet?
No, but that's my wife's biggest threat.
What is that?
Whenever there's like a fight about money or something, she's like, I'll just start selling pictures of my feet.
And I'm like, I don't know what you're talking about.
She got some nice stompers?
Check great feet.
I mean, I thank the Lord every day.
I thank the Lord every day that I was not blessed or cursed with whatever an attraction to feet is.
What are you talking about?
Oh, never mind.
Thank you.
No, no, no.
What are you talking about?
She is one of these weirdos.
Man, they're feet.
You like feet.
Your wife's got nice feet.
That's not a coincidence.
No, no, no.
See, my feet look like if Fred Flintstone fell into a fucking blender.
My feet are just, they're just, I'm not allowed to take socks off in the house.
We're not talking about our feet.
But like, my wife has very, you know, she's, she's, my wife is a very beautiful woman, but feet, I just.
They're just feet.
You're taking them for granted.
That's what you are.
And if you're not into feet, you shouldn't take good feet from guys who like feet.
Here's the thing.
There are so many.
If we're talking about...
We got a real fucking Tarantino over here.
If you're talking about beauty, like there are so many aspects of the female form that is just denying those.
No, we're not denying those.
Those things are also true.
It's not even on the list.
I don't know if it's.
Isn't even on the list.
What are you talking about?
Is it even on the list?
This is bad guys.
Do you eat one type of thing in New York?
That's what I'm talking about, right?
He likes feet.
His wife got the feet.
He said it's not on the list.
No, no, no.
He's saying that.
He's saying that so his wife doesn't sell foot cameras.
She's got a lot of stuff.
Like, what do you want?
Like, she's just a very well-proportioned, beautiful female form.
Yes.
But, like, there's a lot about her that's stunningly.
What supports that form, though?
You know what I mean?
What are they all standing on?
Yeah.
Good feet.
She'd be wobbling around like an asshole.
She's got nice skirts.
She's got excellent balance, but a feet thing is just, I just.