Liver King admits to past steroid use and current testosterone injections, explaining his deception stemmed from childhood trauma and a desire to prevent suicides. He acknowledges misleading fans about ancestral living results but commits to going natural by stopping growth hormone and daily testosterone despite losing muscle mass. While discussing the financial costs of his regimen and the importance of vulnerability over physical strength for true manhood, he plans to be honest with his children, prioritizing authentic family connection over a "superhero" image. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Living Fairly With Primal Foods00:14:13
What I'm curious about is when did it get out of your control if you will?
You know, again, like when was the last time you had used gear?
If you were using steroids, but you were saying that you got this amazing chiseled physique from just eating liver and you went on all these podcasts and you made some of my friends eat liver.
I think it's only fair that we devour some domesticated foods.
Don't you think that's fair?
No way.
Whoa, whoa, His body wasn't built by only liver.
You got men putting balls in their mouths and you're in a fucking cupcake.
Well, look, wait, what are you doing right now?
Just hold it.
You don't even have to finger nothing.
Donut, What's up, everybody, and welcome to Flagrant.
And today we are joined by a guest who is the victim of a massive conspiracy to discredit the hard work and sacrifice that he has gone through.
It's absolutely disgusting.
We're clear in the air right now.
Today, we are sitting with Brian Johnson, the liver king.
Liver King, why are you letting them do this to you, bro?
We know you're natty, bro.
Yes.
We don't know.
We know you're natty, bro.
This is bullshit the way they're attacking you.
They're attacking the masculine male.
They don't want men to be men anymore.
It's a hate crime.
It is a hate crime.
It's a hate crime.
It's a hate crime.
You're being slandered and lied.
You're fucking natural, bro.
Britt, bring out all the hate.
You know, I can't believe it.
Well, hey, we're supporting you, bro.
Yeah, yeah.
We know you're natty, dude.
I smelled that shit when you walked in, bro.
Let me tell you something.
You can't say you're not primal, bro.
I appreciate that.
Did you smell that primal?
That's prime, bro.
I smell all the ancestors.
I love it.
I love it all.
I didn't think it was possible to smell worse than Mark, but he didn't.
Come on, dude.
Listen, Mark, you get a pass today.
This is my final form.
This is a Pokemon before and later.
You know what I mean?
Listen, Liver King, I mean this sincerely.
Why are we allowing them to discredit you?
You know, the first thing I really want to say is thank you guys.
You know, I really appreciate you guys.
Good media pivot.
This guy's good.
This guy's fucking off from me right there.
This guy's shot.
Well, this is a big deal to me.
You know, when I get on a podcast, like, normally I'm so fucking excited, you know, because I get to spread the ancestral message.
I know that's not why I'm here today, right?
I mean, I know that I'm here today because out of all the stupid shit that I've done in my life, I probably have done the stupidest fucking thing.
Which is, which is, I lied.
What?
That's heartbreaking news.
Which is, I lied.
You know, and however the fuck these emails, you know, got leaked, this was a catalyst to be facing my reality, right?
And so I do want to make this fucking clear day.
Like, I know why I'm on today.
You know, I'm on today because...
What did you lie about?
I lied about being on steroids.
Hold on.
I don't believe it.
So you lied.
I don't believe it.
What are you saying?
The email to Derek where he said he's on steroids.
He's lying.
Oh, okay.
That email was a lie.
You were trying to set up a dude.
Come on, bro.
Because that was clearly a setup.
You were trying to make him feel good.
You were trying to make him feel better.
You're sending the email to the guy that outs the guy that used steroids.
Yeah.
That's clearly you playing 4D chess.
You know, Photoshop.
You know what?
So many people have said this is 4D chess.
I wish I could take credit for this.
Come on.
You're natural.
You're unnatural, dude.
That's a little crestfallen.
I'm not crying about this.
This is 45 years old, 2% body fat.
Why is that not natural?
Tell me why that's not natural.
Okay, I'm 39%.
I'm 39% body fat.
I'm 39 years old.
I'm matching my body found every year I have.
I'm two to one.
I'm 76 out there.
This guy's all shot.
This is awful.
He looks like a shit emoji.
He looks like liver.
He looks like this is liver kick.
Liver sultan.
What are you guys?
What are they?
Yeah, Zara.
You got Zara.
What do you guys have?
Servants to the British?
I mean, liver service.
In all seriousness, you're telling me right now that we're supposed to believe that you actually use steroids.
This is the truth.
I might cry, dude.
It hurts my feelings, man.
Fuck, man.
You know, again, like, when I'm saying thank you for having me on, I mean, I know this is why I'm here.
You know, and I really do appreciate the opportunity to talk about this.
You know, the fact is, you know, this was a catalyst to me facing my reality.
The reality is what I did was wrong.
I lied about it.
That's what I'm fucking apologizing for.
And so I hope we talk all about it.
You know, I hope that we get to talk about the nine ancestral tenants a little bit about not wearing deodorant like we're not doing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But, you know, for you guys to have me on today again, I'm really grateful.
Thank you for that.
All right.
Well, we're going to take you at your word.
I didn't want to believe it.
I wanted to.
I still kind of wanted to call out the haters, but we're going to take you at your word that maybe you have used steroids in your life.
Okay.
You should.
Now, if you were using steroids, but you were saying that you got this amazing chiseled physique from just eating liver and you went on all these podcasts and you made some of my friends eat liver.
I think it's only fair that you eat some domesticated foods.
You know what I mean?
If you're getting primal foods and making all our friends eat balls and shit, I think it's only fair that we devour some domesticated foods.
Don't you think that's fair?
No fucking way.
Whoa, whoa, liver, whoa, But this body wasn't built by only liver.
It was hard work.
Yep.
Liver and some steroids.
You know what I mean?
You got men putting balls in their mouth, multiple balls.
That's why you're eating a fucking cupcake?
I'll put some more balls in my mouth.
Yeah, fuck that.
Hold on, Albert.
Hold on.
Yeah, you're speaking this language, man.
This is a married man.
This guy was doing balls before you told me.
But for the record, I never fucking said, eat liver, and you're going to look like this guy.
Never have I said anything remotely, even close to that.
Eating liver is just...
Remotely close?
Yeah, how is that?
Remotely close.
Come on, Ram.
That's what I would say.
You know, if you engage with my content, not even deeply, you know, just watch 15 fucking seconds every morning.
The story is the first thing I do is good morning primals.
It's time to stack the sun and the earth.
This is my primary stack, right?
These are our ancestral ways to express our highest, most dominant form.
I've never fucking said, eat liver, look like me.
And what kind of food.
When you lie about doing any performance enhancing anything, when you say PEDs or primal, whatever, whatever, don't you think that misleads people and tells them if I eat and live like he lives, I will look like he looks.
You're slithering a bit here.
Thank you for the pushback.
Yes, of course, dude.
That's what we do.
Once again, what I would say.
I'm heartbroken, dude.
I thought I was going to liver and I look like...
I'm not going to fucking eat liver.
I'm eating balls.
Look how I look.
I look terrible.
You better eat liver.
And you know, like, I couldn't be more grateful.
I don't know if you guys know, but Joe Rogan just had an episode.
It was 35 minutes talking about Liver King.
Yeah.
You know, and the takeaway I got from it towards the end, he said how great liver is and how he eats liver all the time.
His guest said that he eats liver every fucking day.
And so the name is Liver King, not to try and promote this guy.
It's because liver is king.
You need to be eating liver every fucking day.
I think that's, yeah, yeah.
I think actually, if we're going to be serious for one moment, I don't think people would give much pushback to the ancestral tenants.
I don't think that they would give pushback for adding these components into their diet.
I think even Derek, who was on it, was like, I eat an ounce of liver a day or something like that specifically.
Yeah.
I mean, you've seen how popular just staring at the sun has become.
You know, Dr. Huberman has also been somebody who's been pushing that out like crazy.
So I don't think that the ancestral tenants are necessarily bad.
I don't think that you're getting pushback for those things.
I think people agree with them.
They probably have improved their lives.
Good.
Do you feel like that's the pushback?
Or do you think the pushback was just misleading about how you became this?
Well, for sure, it's both.
You know, I mean, and right now, more than anything, it's about how I became this.
But what I would say is that there's no doubt in my mind.
Once again, I know I fucked it up.
I own that shit.
And I'm going to lead a fucking path forward.
You know, the true north has never changed.
Yeah.
Right.
The true north really will remain these nine ancestral tenants.
You don't got to believe anything I fucking say.
Right.
But I'll tell you what you got to believe.
Yeah.
Are these facts that 4,000 people a day actually kill themselves?
That 80,000 people a day try to, that 85% of the population suffers with self-esteem issues.
80% struggles paycheck to paycheck.
70% are overweight, half are obese, 50% on prescription medicine.
40% have or will get cancer.
And 20% want to have kids that can't have kids.
So all I'm saying is this: listen, you can believe whatever the fuck you want to believe, but what you need to believe is the world is hurting at record fucking rates.
There's a simple solution to living a kick-ass life.
What I say is it starts with liver because liver is king.
But these nine ancestral tenants, Joe Rogan and Andrew Huberman and all these other greats have been talking about them, not in an organized, packaged way, right?
But everybody talks about sleep, how to eat, move, shield, connect, cold.
Everybody loves getting cold today.
And we're talking about...
I'm talking about the ice bass, incredibly popular.
Yeah.
That's why I think I don't think there's any pushback on the ancestral tenants.
I think that.
Thank you for saying that.
I don't think to me personally, just from seeing people, I don't think that anybody has gone, those things aren't good for you.
I think that there has been people who have said, those things alone aren't going to give you this.
And their issue is you don't tell them explicitly, hey, I'm on stairwise.
And if you explicitly lie and say, yo, I'm not doing anything, you are leading them to believe doing the nine ancestral tenants will make them look like you.
When in reality, you have a massive performance-enhancing drug, a lot of them in your system, which is fine.
But don't you think that's a fair criticism?
Like, I think that's part of like forward, right?
Like, absolutely.
Because if I, like, I'll be honest with you, I'm not into clearly working out that much.
So it didn't really bother me.
Like, thanks, Al.
Come on.
Thank you for your contribution to the show.
I really needed to say that.
Really?
I'm a fucking idiot.
That's an asshole, dude.
I already said something out now.
What's that couch?
I know, right?
This piece of shit.
Okay.
So how could you tell?
Did he just dop on me?
I'm trying to help this fucking guy out, snaking up my goddamn cellar.
That's my seat, dog.
Okay.
You're 120 pounds ripped as fuck.
I mean, that's it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Okay.
So, so, in all seriousness, right?
I assume, this is my assumption from the outside world, right?
That you started doing these things and they greatly impacted your life in a positive way.
I genuinely believe that.
And you go.
Just for the record, that's actually not how it all happened.
Oh, I want to hear, I want to hear the whole story.
Yeah.
The way that it happened is my kids couldn't breathe.
My kids had such severe health issues that they were taking ambulance trips to the hospital.
Holy shit.
And so we had been to five, six, seven, eight different fucking doctors, all the same solutions, all the same bullshit, more EpiPens, more Benadryl, more allergy shots.
Meanwhile, they can't fucking...
All the fucking way.
Rockefellers.
100%.
But this is what ends up happening: as a fucking dad, how much of that shit are you going to put up with?
100%.
So at some point, you got to say, I'm not going to allow this to happen anymore.
And so I just continue to research and find ways.
And I found this way.
I found the way of ancestral living.
Like, who would have known?
The way that we've lived for millions of years are still the ways that we fucking need to express robust health and happiness.
And so we started trying it.
We cut out all the processed foods that you guys are trying to trick me into eating right now.
Rightfully so.
You got to punish you.
You've got to pay the price.
You know, for this.
It's in donuts.
Do you think we'll get views?
God damn, I hope.
You know what's not?
You know what's tangle?
You know what's hope.
More king than liver?
Views, baby.
If you take a bite of an Oreo, it's over.
You're forgiven.
Well, look what we have here.
Wow.
Wow.
Fuck, you actually do.
Show that to the kids.
Wow, hold on one second.
Now, this looks nasty to you, probably.
You look at this.
This right here is ancestral living.
That is.
This is what kings look like.
I've never seen a king look like you.
You know what we call that?
This is what kings ate.
I don't know about it.
You don't think kings were...
Look at that.
That would look better than liver.
I'll tell you.
Look at that chocolate-covered donut.
What do you want?
Hey, you know what this is?
Evolution?
This is thousands of years of dietary evolution.
What are you doing, man?
Can you just hold it?
Can you just hold it?
This is good.
Just hold it.
You don't even have to fuck it or not.
You know what?
Come on.
Grab a bite.
Come on, Liverkin.
Oh, Liverkin.
Hey, are you concerned about hurting your brand?
Is that what you're concerned about?
Your reputation will take a hit.
Exactly.
This is obviously not about my brand.
This is your reputation.
I'm telling you, this is your way to get back into people's good graces.
Like you said, you got to take your licks.
Now take a lick.
Listen, this is the truth.
Here you go.
Oh, gladly.
Tell us the truth.
Hey, this is my living.
Listen, let's go.
You're going to have to fucking actually wash my hands now.
No, God, no.
Don't do that.
Okay, there we go.
We're listening.
Come on.
You're doing it too.
Oh, like you're doing.
Honestly, you should eat it.
You should eat the donut real time.
What is the 10th anniversary?
I got one.
You know, we're hanging with the boys.
You got another one right here.
What is the 10th ancestral tenant?
Exactly.
It's a bite.
It's to have some goddamn fun.
Yeah.
This is.
Thank you.
Take a bite out of a donut.
One bite?
Come on, Liverkin.
We're going to have fun with the boys.
What's the words of Liver Queen?
I promise he takes one bite.
He's not going to lose the family or anything like that.
It's just a little bit of fun.
Your libido is going to skyrocket.
You know what?
Let's hang on to this for a minute.
Let's hang on.
Let's hang on to this for a minute.
Take a bite of it, put it on your pecker right there.
I guarantee.
I guarantee you.
That's exactly what I want to do with guys around the fucking couch.
This is what the boys do.
The Bite That Changed Everything00:04:30
Back in the day, you don't think the ancestors were whacking off?
I'm saying, yeah.
You know what?
I don't know.
What do you think?
Fucking fine.
No, I've never read that in the book.
The Greek army.
You know, they invented all that stuff.
Let's see what you're pecking, dog.
Liver King or Liver Prince.
You know what I mean?
Fuck, I don't know if this is the same show I thought I was coming up with.
Definitely not.
Okay, but I do want to hear the whole story.
What I was trying to do is give you the benefit of the doubt, which was you found this thing really helpful.
Now I know for your kids, for your family, and you're like, I want to share this with the world, which I think is a beautiful thing.
I think that's great.
What I want to know is when it got out of line.
My assumption was that you want to play up a character that was larger than life because that could touch more people.
And by touching more people, you could probably help them.
I think that's best case scenario for you.
Now, using the performance enhancing drugs allowed you to have this, like you see this in cartoons, bro.
This is not like a real thing that you see regularly, right?
And because of it, when you're scrolling on Instagram and you see a guy walking around like that, you're like, what the fuck is going on?
Right?
I think this makes sense.
Sure.
You're walking around the liver.
Like all these things, like the way that you create the virality around you is very impressive.
It's brilliant.
It's genuinely impressive.
And your comfort doing podcasts and all that stuff, having never been in entertainment before, incredibly impressive.
So there are components to this where as someone who's in entertainment, I go, wow, this guy knows what the fuck he's doing.
What I'm curious about is when did it get out of your control, if you will?
And why lie?
And why lie?
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, almost immediately it got out of control because almost immediately, you know, this question was asked, you know, if I'm taking anything.
And so why lie?
I shared this before I'll share with you guys.
I mean, the mind is such an incredible weapon.
And I convinced myself of a couple of things.
I'll just tell you three of them.
You know, the first is I'm like, what the fuck does this have to do with my message?
This is what I'm thinking.
Right.
I'm thinking, this has nothing to do with how people are hurting and hating and the simple solution to live a better life.
I'm thinking, what the fuck does this have to do with my message?
I'm not going to talk.
I would say, you convince me what day I should talk about these accusations versus the day we should talk about the hurting and hating and the path to a better fucking life.
You tell me what day we should do that.
Today.
So I convinced myself of that.
The second thing is like, I'm thinking, what the fuck sport am I playing?
Right.
Who the fuck am I cheating?
Again, I'm not saying any of this is right.
I understand.
We're not giving me pushback.
I genuinely just want to know what was going through your mind.
And these things seem reasonable.
This is what goes through my mind.
And I'm thinking about, you know how many 15-year-olds have DM'd me?
I wish you were my dad.
Whoa.
You know, I hate the fucking life that I live in.
I hate myself, you know, and I wish you were my dad.
And I'm thinking, oh, God damn, you know, I convinced myself that this is not the message that this 15-year-old needs to hear.
So I just fucking kept digging.
You guys know.
Do you remember the first lie?
I think people empathize with you.
Lie about something and then it just gets whatever.
But like, do you remember when you first lied and what went through your mind?
And like, you remember that moment?
You know what?
Not exactly.
I do remember that Logan Paul gave me the opportunity to come on impulsive.
And I remember them asking me then.
And I remember, oh, fuck, okay.
You know, this is what I'm going to say.
And I started saying it.
And then once I said that, you know, like, I'm fucking done.
It's over.
Yeah.
You got to dig in.
Yeah.
You know, and yeah, talk about doubling down and tripling down.
I mean, you know, I keep telling people this is the stupidest fucking thing I ever did.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, did you plan to do that before you went on the show?
Like, was the conversation like, oh, if they ask, say this?
Or was that something that came up?
Well, people had already asked the DMs.
People had already, you know, been commenting about it.
Were you responding to DMs or just?
Yeah.
Okay.
I was.
And so I already had started lying about it.
And so once again, like, this all went through my head the first time somebody asked, I'm like, okay, I convinced myself of X, Y, and Z.
So I'm not going to come out and share that information.
Yeah.
Why the fuck does it matter?
Will this information ever come out?
You know, and yeah, once you start fucking lying, you're done.
Yeah.
You're fucking done.
I will say that there's so many fucking silver lightings in life, though.
Yep.
And I don't know if you guys know this, but like as soon as this happened, I called Derek.
I called him.
First of all, he didn't answer.
And then I sent him a text and I said, hey, man, I just want to thank you.
And so then he answers.
I'm like, hey, man.
Oh, actually, the first thing I said to him, he answers, he goes, hello.
And I said, hey, how fucking long did it take for you to make this documentary?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And he goes, weeks.
And I said, weeks?
You spent weeks making this documentary.
Why Lying Feels So Safe00:08:01
I think it's brilliant.
And I just want to say thank you.
I don't know what good will come of it, but good will fucking come of it.
I'm on the fucking show right now.
You know, I'm on, I have this opportunity to be completely fucking honest with my boys.
I've been lying to my boys, my own boys.
Wow.
You know, about this.
Now, is it in some ways liberating?
Completely.
Carrying around a lie, maybe I'm sure your wife knows about it and forcing her to lie.
I don't know if the kids know about it, but basically you're carrying around this lie.
That people get crushed under that pressure, especially when your identity is rooted in your physique.
Yeah, I'll say, I think two things happen.
For sure, it felt like a weight had been lifted for about five seconds.
And then immediately.
And then immediately it's like, you know what?
Like, you know what I, what I'm dealing with now.
Yeah.
You know, of course I'm going to own it.
And of course, you know, like now I have a deeper sense of obligation and responsibility to remain to my true north, to get this message out because of the people that were counting on me, irrespective of it.
If it happens with a Liver King brand or not, you know, I've always said I'm the CEO of the ancestral lifestyle.
Here's the thing.
I need 100 fucking CEOs of the ancestral lifestyle, you know, if this thing's going to work.
You know, if this goes mainstream and we get people to execute at a deep level, it's like, this is way bigger than me.
And so for a second, I'm like, oh, cool.
The weight has been lifted.
Now, do you think that there was pushback because, okay, let me phrase it like this.
I don't think you're getting nearly as much pushback if you just happened to be an accountant that looked like this and preached the ancestral lifestyle.
The fact that you had businesses that were profiting off of it, I think makes people give pushback.
And I think the second that you mentioned how much money the businesses were making, once you put money out there, Envy follows and they want to tear that ass down.
Yeah.
So what is your thought on that?
Do you think if you weren't profiting off of the way you look and simply just pushing it, that you would get next to this much screw?
Yeah, the first thing I'll say is Liver King just launched a year ago, a year and a few months.
Yeah.
I've been in business since supplement businesses since 2014.
Right.
I mean, Liver King, the public figure is brand fucking new.
And what I can tell you is my businesses have always grown a certain amount.
That amount hasn't increased, nor has it decreased.
So another thing I'll say is like, you know, again, the true north is the nine ancestral tenants.
Now, anyone can sit here and say, oh, your businesses are profiting.
You know, all I really fucking give is, listen, you don't got to, you know.
I'm really speaking more towards perception because right now we operate in perception, not reality, right?
The internet is not a reality.
But that is the reality.
Exactly.
So perception becomes reality.
So when they say my businesses are, when they see a headline, it's like Liver King's business makes $100 million last year.
They're assuming you pushing Liver King, not your other supplements that have nothing to do with you, that people don't even know the brands that are exactly associated.
They're just saying $100 million, Liver King products.
Then they find out you're on steroids.
They're like, this motherfucker was lying about his body so he could sell these Liver King bars and make hundreds of millions of dollars.
Fuck that guy.
And adding to their hatred, think how many of you are.
Have you tried the Liver King bar, by the way?
Did you bring it?
It's so fucking good.
Lifetime supplied for everybody here.
I've never got one.
You guys are.
Bring out the Liver King bars.
Bring them out.
I gave you a whole spread.
You didn't give me none of that.
We're not eating your shit until you eat our shit.
So I guess what I'm trying to get to is like more the perception, right?
Because we're operating perception.
You can empathize with somebody that sees that.
Oh, 100%.
And they can empathize with them.
I deserve it.
They should be resentful about it.
Again, I apologize because I lied, because I deceived people, because I misled people.
Again, I fucking own it.
I deserve it all.
And what I would say to anybody who wants to retaliate or go somewhere else, go somewhere else, right?
What I would ask, you got to be loyal to the facts that people are hurting and hating at record rates.
And listen, you want to go somewhere else?
Go somewhere else.
I don't give a shit.
You're like, yeah, get these things from Huberman.
Get these things from the many other people that are preaching very similar philosophies that will help you with your life.
That's what you're saying.
So you're saying it doesn't need to be Liver King who's pointing these things out.
It could be Derek from More Plates More Day.
Guess what?
Every one of them is saying the same thing.
They're all saying Liver is King.
And they're saying, make sure you get an ice bath, make sure you look at the sun, make sure you do all these things.
Clearly, these things work.
You call them in the ancestral tenants.
Huberman's going to call them something else.
More plates, Moore Day is going to call them.
Rogan's going to call them something else.
But what you're saying right now, it's more important to you that people do these things so they could feel better than they just follow you as their Lord and Savior.
This is my why of the world.
Got you.
Now, my question is this.
Because I saw the apology and I thought it was great that you apologized.
Now, can you also empathize with the people that felt that you were using the suicide stuff as a shield to protect you?
Sure.
You know, what I'll say is this, my 10 to 15 year old self was the hardest fucking time in my life.
I'm grateful for it.
This was my first rite of passage in life.
Every day I got the shit kicked out of me.
Like I said, I'm grateful for it.
But here's what I remember.
In middle school, my bus driver killed himself.
Oh, no.
And every day prior to that, I remember looking in the mirror, just wishing I wasn't this fucking guy.
Zero self-worth, totally humiliated and embarrassed of the human that I had become.
When he killed himself, now I fucking knew it was possible.
And I knew the world would be better without me.
I could talk more about those years if you want me to, but a couple years later, my best friend's brother killed himself.
I've had talks in my family about people wanting to kill themselves.
Just last week, we had a 14-year-old girl. close to the family kill herself.
And you know what?
Nobody wants to talk about this.
Why the fuck are people not talking about this?
4,000 people a day do it.
80,000 people a day try to fucking do it.
Somewhere along the continuum, people are suffering and struggling at record fucking rates.
So this is what I would say back.
Number one, this is why I'm fucking here.
The only reason why I'm here.
And then secondly, I think when somebody has the opportunity to talk about it, you better fucking talk about it.
It's dangerous if you don't.
It's irresponsible if you don't.
So you want to laugh and say, oh, he's just saying this to do that thing.
And I know you're not laughing, but other people are saying, oh, he's shielding me.
I was very like, for me, I'm very sensitive with that kind of stuff because I have close family members who have been suicidal.
We all have.
100%, right?
So like me not knowing those things about you, my knee-jerk reaction was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, are you using this thing as a shield?
I've seen certain people use the suicide thing as a shield for like protection from the ugly beliefs they have.
Like it's a topic that's used often to be like, well, I know I said this fucked up shit, but by the way, did you know this is happening to men?
We need to look out for men.
We need to be careful and we need to nurture them and everybody's forgetting men.
When you tell me that you've had these close people in your life kill themselves, immediately I empathize.
I go, oh, fuck, man.
He really does care about this stuff.
He went through a tough time in his life.
His kids couldn't even fucking breathe.
You're trying to find ways to make life easier for people.
Now you're a person.
Now you're Brian Johnson.
Now you're not Liver King.
The problem with creating the mascot of the cartoon is they don't have feelings.
They don't have family.
They don't have emotions to the consumer, right?
Fucking the guy on Captain Crunch, I don't know what he went through.
I don't know how many cousins he got.
Do you know what I'm saying?
I don't know.
That's just the Captain Crunch guy who sells me Crunchberries.
And that is...
I look kind of similar.
The benefit of being Captain Crunch is you can be everywhere.
But the problem is nobody gives a fuck about your feelings.
So for me, that makes me feel better when my knee-jerk reaction was like, ooh, I think that's a shield.
It's a shield that I'm really sensitive about.
If you can talk also to that, because I think the perception some people might still have is, yeah, but the perception, not the reality, is, yeah, but you didn't really start talking about this until you got exposed.
So if it mattered to you so much, why weren't you leading with that before?
And I could be wrong.
I might not have watched another video.
You're wrong.
I saw you talk about it.
I saw you talk about it before when I was doing some.
So you've been talking about this the whole time.
100%.
But the people who aren't consuming all your content are once again just going to see it.
So that's why I think it's, to be honest, why I wanted you to come on here.
We don't do gotcha interviews.
Seeing Through The Marketing Hype00:04:02
That's how we're about.
I just want to know if it was going through what was going on in your life.
And as these things happen and as you saw this, you know, kind of runaway train happen.
Like you said you wanted to go in the email from like the followers you had to a million.
And then you became one of the most viewed people on the internet in a very short amount of time.
You get all these DMs that are reaffirming the good that you're doing.
It's very easy probably to block out the lie when you have 15 year olds going, thank you so much for helping me.
You go, okay, we could do that.
Do you know what I'm saying?
Now I'm not saying you're Castro, but it's like, but it's like, I'm sure there's a bunch of people that were in Cuba going, oh, this shit is great.
Thank you.
We finally got some food.
A bunch of other people going, what the fuck is going on?
What happened to all my riches?
You know, the road to, this seems so exaggerative, but like, what do they say?
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
You know what I mean?
I don't think that you're going to hell for this, but you do seem to have good intentions and I do believe the intentions.
You know, it is a, it's a very tricky thing.
It's a very tricky place you're in.
Yeah.
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Do you wish that you had told the truth when asked?
Of course.
Oh, 100%.
I wish I had told the truth when asked me.
But we're fucking so far past that.
Regretting The Fight Decision00:05:01
And why did you not tell the truth in that moment?
Like I shared earlier, you know, it's like I convinced myself of probably 16 different fucking reasons.
The primary ones were this has nothing to do with my message.
You think that we're going to talk about this instead of the actual issues?
You know, we're going to talk about this instead of people today go to a job that they hate.
They come home to a job that to a life they don't love.
They sedate themselves.
They distract themselves.
Most people just don't fucking like their lives.
You think we're going to talk about this instead of that?
You know, we're going to talk about like these easy, accessible things to do to go kick ass.
You think we're going to talk about this?
You know, people would just straight up say, hey, are you on steroids?
And I would just say, hey, did you know 4,000 people that they kill themselves?
Which one you want to talk about?
You would also say like, no, you're, no, I'm not.
Oh, 100%.
But I'm giving you examples of.
You know what's more effective, though?
You telling your personal story.
I know that.
That like now, like, bro, you don't even know my, like, you're getting to know my personal story.
You know, I hope to get be able to share some stuff today.
Please.
Yeah.
That's why you're here.
Like, I'm seriously want to know.
You know, so you know, my kids said, my, my kids asked why.
And, and, and a lot of what I shared on the apology video is just kind of a replica of what I shared with my kids.
But really, I think what it all comes down to, like, the real why is, um, you know, I got to crush myself in the gym multiple times a day just to feel like I'm okay.
Yeah.
Like, like I'm worth it, like I fucking earned it.
You know, and trust me, this is not like just one time a day.
Like, this is multiple times a day.
And somebody said, okay, why do you got to do all that shit?
You know, and I'm like, oh my God, you know what?
I've never dealt with this before.
And again, this is a silver lighting.
Now I have the chance to go deep.
When I talk about my 10 to 15-year-old self, when you guys fucking understand, you know, the first day of middle school for me was some fucking guy who looked like he was 35 with a mustache and everything smacks, hawks a little gy on his fucking hand, smacks me in the face, and I didn't know what the fuck, where I was.
But what would happen at least once a week is I just got blindsided.
I'd get knocked out and I would wake up and I'd have my book bagged.
The bell had already rung.
Nobody's in the hallway.
And I got to figure out, okay, what fucking period is it?
You know, and this is my entire fucking middle school.
Not once did I stand up for myself.
Not once did I fight back or push.
And when the guys would come, I would just walk back, step back, step back and say, you don't want to fight me.
I'm a pussy.
And this is true.
And I thought for years, I was like, I'm going to take that shit to the grave.
You know, I think a real defining moment for me was in middle school.
This kid Chris challenged me to a fight.
For him to enter into a gang, he had to get into a fight.
So some people told me about this thing.
And I'm like, well, why would I do that?
I've never gotten in a fight.
You think I'm going to fight in front of a whole fucking gang and do all this shit?
And so I immediately was like, of course I'm not going to do this.
You know, my brother happened to be around, who's an older brother.
He was with a friend, Justin, and his mom.
And his mom said, you have to do this.
And my dad died when I was a little kid.
I don't have any memory of him.
I had never had a male mentor in my life.
But she said, you got to do this.
Justin said, you got to do this.
My brother said, you got to do this.
Hey, you're strong.
And I'm thinking, I can't believe you guys are fucking tricking me into doing this.
She drives me to the fight in her white conoline van.
And I remember getting out of this van.
My heart was beating a million miles a fucking minute.
I see him.
I see all the, it looked like 30 people.
I'm sure it was 15 behind him.
And I remember walking up to him really fast.
And I remember I'm just going to give it everything I got.
And I came a mile fucking back here.
I mean, I was probably a mile away from this guy.
And I swung so fucking hard, I threw myself to the ground.
So I'm on the ground.
He's coming up to me to kick me.
And everyone wore steel-toe boots back then.
And so he's coming up to kick me.
And as he's coming up to kick me, I just, I picked him up and I manhandled him.
And I realized how fucking strong I am.
And then I was able to mount him.
And I was able to pin his elbows, his arms under my knees.
And I had my left hand on his neck and I had my right hand cocked back.
And I looked in his eyes and I saw how helpless, how hopeless, how pathetic, how scared he was.
And I saw myself and I couldn't fucking do it.
I couldn't do it.
And I remember getting up, kind of running back to the van.
And when I got in, everyone was kind of proud of me.
You know, everyone was throwing rocks at the van.
The windshield got cracked.
And I was so worried about her van.
And she looked back at me.
Justin's mom looked back at me and she's like, she says she's proud of me.
And you know what I knew right then?
I was like, you know what is fucking worthless?
Is I had felt what seemed like my whole life.
Yeah.
I could do that.
Yeah.
And if I could do that, what else am I capable of doing?
So that was the spark.
You know what?
Again, I know I haven't dealt with this because wait, did you get to join the gang?
Like, no, and sometimes I think, God damn, I should have just done it.
I would have gotten so much more respect if I had just done that.
And that guy, when I let him up, he didn't come after me because he fucking knew.
He knew what time it was.
Running Back To The Van00:15:04
Yeah.
He knew.
I have way more respect for you doing it like that.
I could fuck you up.
I'm not gonna.
Yeah.
But you know what?
Like, so I doubled down then on working.
I had already been working out for a while.
But now I doubled down on that.
You know, now I'm like, oh my God, I can actually control outcomes in my life.
And we'll fast forward all these years, that's not changed.
You know, it's like I still need to do that to feel I don't go to sleep at night feeling pathetic.
What I do is what's required of me to do is to kill myself, to crush myself, to destroy myself enough times to be like, I'm okay.
Yeah.
I'm okay.
Yeah.
Like, to me, this is way more relatable.
And I think that, like, I think, you know, you said a couple things.
Well, first of all, I didn't know any of this.
You know, like, of course, you're processing it.
You're becoming self-defense.
People are asking why, why, why?
And I'm like, well, I don't know because I got to get in the gym.
Well, why do you got to do that?
Like, I don't fucking know until recently.
But I think you said something interesting.
Like, you grew up without a father.
You didn't have like, so to me, you're becoming like the almost cartoonish version of what a man is, right?
But it's lacking the vulnerability that we connect with.
Yeah, that's tough, man.
And like, a lot of times we don't know that.
Notice that.
Like, I remember with my wife.
I'll tell you a personal story with my wife.
We were trying to have a kid.
The first month we're trying to have a kid.
We didn't have a kid.
The first month.
My wife is a little bit type A or whatever that shit is.
Like it needs to happen.
And I'm grateful we didn't have a kid first because I was doing a lot of drugs earlier in that month.
So our kid would have been fucking whack, right?
Like that.
That's how all of ours were conceived.
We were partying like crazy, by the way.
That's why they are the way they are.
Well, no actual drugs, just a lot of alcohol.
You look great, by the way.
Good cover-up.
Liver Queen, calm down.
Did you see her?
Oh my gosh.
She's like, alcohol.
Okay.
But, but so we got this.
We got this.
We got this test done on my sperm, right?
And my sperm is great, except for like grade of motility or something like that.
I don't even know what the fuck it is.
She's calling around.
Oh, it's how fast they swim or something like that.
She's freaking out, right?
And my reaction to her is machismo.
It is, hey, we're going to be great.
Don't worry.
We got this.
I'm like, yo, if you want to do more tests or go to a specialist, we got it, but don't worry.
We got, I know for a fact we got this.
She's interpreting that as I'm not taking this seriously.
I don't care.
And I don't care.
What I'm doing is covering up my vulnerability, which is, will she not love me if I can't get her pregnant?
Will she think I'm less of a man?
Will my wife not be attracted to me?
So I'm trying to cover up the real feeling I have, right?
Which is being terrified that the woman I love could stop loving me because I can't do this fucking primal thing.
I shared that with her the other night.
She fucking started crying.
I would never think differently, whatever.
And I wish that I led with the vulnerability.
To me, I'm really glad that you're coming on right now and like saying the true reasons why you're even pushing this lifestyle.
It's to cover something up.
You said that you're, it was like 85% of people deal with like low self-esteem.
You're wrapping your self-esteem into something that I think is unhealthy.
You have a wife.
You have a family.
You have successful businesses.
You don't need to lift heavy shit two times a day to feel good about you.
Were you a good dad that day?
Were you good to your friends?
Did you care about people?
Do you provide for people?
Like those are the things that I'm looking at and going, that's a king, not someone who will fucking bench press.
Yeah.
Because if bench pressing makes you a man, what the fuck am I?
But I think I'm a good man.
Yeah.
So maybe, you know, maybe part of the ancestral tenants is recognizing what you're doing and how you are being a good man, which is providing and loving the people and caring for the people around you.
You know, maybe that's something that you need to take note of, man.
And leading with that fucking vulnerability that has really transformed this interview.
Yeah.
You telling me the things you went through, all the suicides that you had to deal with, made that real, not an excuse when you said it.
I think vulnerability is the only thing we can connect to as human beings.
We look up to the person who seems infallible, but we don't connect to them.
I feel more connected to you now, man.
Thank you for sharing that.
Despite your stink.
You know, it's really hard to share that.
Even in the email that was leaked or whatever, when you said something about like, oh, I have this back fat that kills me.
I think a lot of guys are like, yeah, but who cares?
Like, that doesn't make you or break you in anybody's eyes.
So my question to you is, would you be willing to go natty now to promote the ancestral tenants even further and say, look, I use this.
Now, look, I'm just doing this.
And I still, I might not be as ripped, but I feel great.
I have a family that loves me, everything.
You know what I mean?
Keep in mind, every one of us on this podcast is about to get on steroids very soon.
I mean that 100%.
I'm going to do peptides.
Bare minimum thousands.
Bare minimum peptides.
But carry on.
I know a guy.
I'll also answer your question.
I believe so deeply in this message and the nine ancestral tenants and the ancestral living.
To answer your question, yes.
Okay.
You would go natty.
Yes.
So are you going natty?
That's it?
Yes.
Now don't do one of them things where you say it on podcast.
I'm done with that.
You know, when I had the opportunity to issue the apology, I was like, you know what?
So many people were threatening to come out like with prescriptions of the actual growth hormone prescription.
You name it.
And I said, well, you know what?
This is my time to just fucking do it all, to say it all.
You know, I get this one opportunity to just be completely fucking honest about everything.
I'm going to do this thing.
And I know right now it's the same deal.
It's like, okay, I fucked this whole thing up.
I've learned from this.
The thing that I've learned from this is like, I'm not doing this again.
Forget that shit.
Like, now I got this responsibility, this obligation.
You know, there's so many silver linings in it.
Do you know how much better this will be for my health?
You know, again, maybe we'll talk about more of the silver linings, but the worst thing for primal lifestyle is dying at 50.
Yeah.
The worst thing for the person.
Trust me.
I've thought about that.
I'm like, okay, what if this guy dies at 50?
What do you think people are going to think about this?
It's like Atkins.
Remember Atkins?
Yeah.
Atkins died.
He died of a fucking heart attack.
How old was he?
I don't know, but you're not supposed to die of a heart attack.
He was probably on steroids.
Exactly.
So the thing is, I have this opportunity, to never go back to that fucking place where I lied about shit.
And so this is my commitment.
When was the last time you had used gear?
Oh, Saturday.
Today?
Today.
Today.
So why stop?
I don't want you to stop.
I don't want you to stop.
I love you as well.
See how honest it's beautiful?
Well, listen.
There's two pieces to it.
Now!
There's two pieces to it.
I do testosterone and I do growth hormone.
Yeah.
Growth hormone is daily.
Yes.
And I was talking to my friends the other day.
We're having coffee.
We're on mushrooms.
We're doing mushrooms.
Fun.
Ancestral.
And I go, hey, man, I got to leave for a minute.
I got to go do my growth hormone.
And they're like, because none of them knew any of this stuff.
And they're like, holy fucking shit.
Like, everybody laughed.
And then a friend came to use the pisser and he looked around the corner and he could see me doing it and he goes, holy fucking shit, you're actually doing it.
Growth hormone is a daily thing.
And then testosterone is a once-a-week thing.
So Saturday is my fucking day for testosterone.
Every day is my day for growth hormone.
I'm working with some people that are really close to me to experts to come off this.
So it doesn't happen overnight, but this is what I'm doing.
But what happens?
Because I know there's a bunch of guys who I've spoken to who, as they've gotten older, their testosterone levels have dipped under a normal amount.
So they're trying to bring it back to a normal amount.
That would technically be considered steroid use, but I don't know if anybody would be that critical of it.
Well, listen, I'm calling it steroids, like to be as forthcoming as possible.
But do you know what I'm saying?
Oh, absolutely.
You know how many people around me are saying, hey, don't say you're taking steroids.
And I'm like, listen, you think I'm going to get a break to say I'm just taking TRT?
I'm just taking growth hormone.
No, you won't get a break.
I'm just doing hormone replacement therapy.
I mean, you know how many people have said, it sounds a lot better if you just say exactly what you're doing.
I'm like, fuck it.
You know what I'm going to do?
Just call it Roy's, call it Garrett.
Testosterone technically is a steroid hormone.
Growth hormone technically is a peptide hormone.
These are different things, but you know what?
Testosterone is a steroid.
If you're taking TRT, you're taking fucking steroids.
Or you're taking steroid.
You know, maybe I should say that.
I'm on steroid.
If you go natural, though, because your image is tied to your brand.
And so like, what if like the cuts start going away and things like that?
And you don't look as good.
How's that going to be?
Are you worried about your brand at all?
Not at all.
You know, again, like, this is so much more important than me and my brand.
You know, again, the true north is this message.
And I'm completely convinced that I know how I look before I touched anything.
You know, and if you guys fucking saw my 15-year-old picture, you'd be like, if that guy just looked like that, he'll be able to do what he needs to do.
You know how it works.
Testosterone is not an issue for.
You know, like to the trained eye, you know the difference, you know, but most of the world probably wouldn't fucking know the difference.
You know, and this isn't even the actual deal.
You know, the deal that I have to deal with for me is how am I going to deal with not getting into the gym two or three times a day doing this?
That's what I actually have to deal with.
And I'm not worried about, okay, and I'll tell you right now, I'll lose 15 pounds.
You know, I'll lose 15 pounds, but I'll still be ripped.
And people are going to still, I fucking guarantee you, people are still going to say, oh, he's still taking shit.
And I'm fine with that too.
You know, I don't know what we can do.
Maybe we'll do blood chemistry analysis over time and look at that kind of stuff.
But this is my commitment.
And you're talking about people that, you know, as they get older, when their testosterone, you know what?
Here's the thing.
Again, I believe so deeply in these nine ancestral tenets that the root cause of my issue, the real root cause is the self-worth thing.
But the more direct root cause is I overtrain like fucking crazy.
And when you overtrain like crazy, you know how badly that fucks up your hormones?
Yeah.
I don't know.
Yeah, the recovery.
Well, I'll just give you one.
Do you know how important your sleep is?
Yeah, I'm learning now.
I didn't realize this, but I'm learning now.
Well, so for so many fucking years in a row, I would wake up at two o'clock in the morning and I would hear my neighbor playing basketball.
I'm like, what the fuck is he doing?
This crazy neighbor, Brian.
Like, I wouldn't put it past him, playing basketball too.
I could hear the fucking ball.
I could feel the ball bouncing day after day after day.
And I would say, hey, dude, what the fuck is he doing?
Do you hear that?
And then one time, you know, she's like, I don't hear anything.
And I realized it was my heart.
Whoa.
It was my heart.
And this is before taking stuff.
And so, and I never stopped overtraining.
I never stopped.
My resting heart rate was around 100.
My resting heart rate was around 100.
What's up, normal?
Normal is probably normal for me is around 60.
About 55, 60.
It's actually normal for me.
I don't get there unless I fat.
When I fast, I do a five-day water-only fast once a quarter, and I'm able to recover everything.
And it's like the most dangerous.
It's the best thing you could do for your brain and your body.
My resting heart rate finally gets better.
You know, but guess what?
That's about to last for about two days because I took five days off and now I'm about to go get it all back.
So I know that the actual, the more direct root cause is, how am I going to deal with not being in the gym multiple times a day?
And I got to sort that out.
I'll deal with that one day at a time.
I'll sort that out.
And just for, again, a layman like myself, you can't be in the gym multiple times a day because it's the steroids in the HCH help you recover at all.
Absolutely.
Okay.
So it's not that you don't have time.
It's it would just be too what your muscles would be too destroyed.
Cognitively and physically, you just fall apart.
Got you.
You just fall.
And that's actually why I really sought the help, all the help.
Yeah.
Because, you know, I needed to get into the gym twice a day.
And then my cognitive and physical abilities were just, I wasn't recovering, cobwebs all over.
I'm like, okay, let me get some help.
I got some help.
It made a big difference.
It made a dangerous difference because I'm like, okay, now maybe I could get a third session in.
And I just pushed it even more.
And some days I get a fourth session in.
And when we're on vacation, I'm like, I got to go do that thing again.
She's like, what the fuck are you doing?
We're on vacation.
I'm like, I have to go do that thing.
You don't feel like that?
I don't understand how nobody else feels like that.
I'm like, I have to go do that thing again.
And she just knows.
She's like, go, go do that thing.
I have to do that thing.
Like, I have to work out in order to feel good.
And I've done that for my entire life, pretty much.
And I have to work out in a specific way.
It has to be, I can't, it's just lifting heavy weights doesn't really do it.
It has to be like hard cardio to the point where all I'm thinking is about my next breath.
And then my brain just kind of like relaxes and I get out of my own way and I'm just calm for the end of the day.
It's amazing.
But usually if I get one, I don't have to do that again.
But there is something that I need to do to unlock it.
So I understand that feeling.
I'm like way more anxious if I don't work out.
I'm way more insecure.
It's, it's, there's something beautiful about the workout.
So when I hear people preaching the importance of exercise, I relate to that 100%.
And it's hard to understand it unless you felt the benefits of it.
It's like explaining to somebody what ecstasy does or mushrooms.
It's like you can't explain it.
Oh, you see colors.
Like it sounds like the dumbest thing ever until you're on mushrooms.
You're like, man, them colors are slapping.
So I do understand the importance of pushing lifestyle.
I do.
I get it.
I just hope that me, you, other people can find self-worth outside of just maybe the way we look and the way we work out.
Because ancestral living, none of our ancestors look like you, dog.
Our ancestors are skinny.
You know what I mean?
Like they were not as shredded as you.
But I don't know if you know, but I've been around the world to visit with our modern day primitive culture tribes in the Amazon and Africa.
We just got back from Mongolia.
Nobody looks like me.
That's what I'm saying.
And I used to try and defend that position because you actually see quite a few, a lot of six packs, but you don't see this muscle mass.
Yeah, it's the massive muscle.
It doesn't confer a fitness benefit in that community.
But what I will say is this, man, the women in Mongolia, how strong they are.
I bring these 100-pound dumbbells everywhere I go.
And these women in Mongolia, in the middle of fucking nowhere, they pick them up no problem whatsoever.
They don't know the form or anything.
They pick both of them up and they move them around.
And I'm thinking, oh, I can't let a woman pick it up.
Confessing My Tribal Secrets00:17:41
But she's already done it.
She's gone.
Just today, we're leaving the hotel.
Maybe they were lady boys.
Well, I will say this.
One man couldn't do them by himself.
Really?
Yeah, he got another man.
They're both trying to carry one.
And I'm like, guys, guys, you know.
But you're right.
Our early ancestors didn't look like our modern day primitive culture tribes.
They don't look like this.
They're lean because of diet, probably, and the exercise they're getting, but they don't have that fucking mass, man.
So, I guess maybe there's something about tapping into our ancestral roots that is more than just the physical.
You know, maybe it's the mental liberation.
Yeah, there's self-worth.
Ancestrally, our self-worth was never based in how he looked.
So, there's a 10th tenet, probably, which is you have to feel good about yourself for you before all this stuff.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, I mean, there's so many fundamentals baked into these tenants.
The ninth one is bond.
Yeah.
And when you put down your goddamn phone and you do this kind of thing, right?
You share this kind of chemistry.
You produce this kind of electricity.
You know your place.
You know who guards the perimeter.
You know who is the hunter.
You know your roles and goals.
Everybody knows who the best hunter is.
Everybody knows who the weapon maker is.
Everybody knows who the fucking chief is.
Your roles and goals, life and death depends on you to do that.
And I believe that there's a lot of self-worth there.
I know what my roles and goals are in life.
But outside of roles and goals, what about the camaraderie when you're hanging with your boys?
This is it.
This is friendship, right?
Like this is a role as a friend.
And what's the goal there?
It's to deepen that connection, to make progress, you know, with this sort of connection.
So I think that one of the most important things I need to put in front of me is like what my roles and goals are and how to develop roles outside of myself to develop myself.
Again, I'm working on this one day at a time.
Good.
And I think I know what that path looks like.
But you're totally right.
You know, you go and you visit with these tribes.
I was really hoping when we went to go see the Machi Ganga on the Amazon, my kids call them the Machi Gangsters, by the way.
And their number one predator is a neighboring tribe that comes over and attacks them with machetes and kills them.
This still goes on.
The number two predator is a jaguar, you know, and my kids thought that was pretty badass.
They call them the matcha gangsters.
I was hoping to see somebody and be like, oh, okay, not only do I look like this, but other guys.
I've never seen it.
I've never seen it.
So you're right about that.
All right, guys, let's take a break for a second because obviously some of y'all are feeling that primal urge to manscape right now.
It's okay.
There's no shame in the game.
I shaved my pubes two days ago.
I need to trim it up.
I was feeling a little down.
I wanted to see my root look a little bit bigger.
So I shaved it up and now I'm looking gorgeous, beautiful, okay?
Nocturnal.
That's right.
You can't see your dick in the dark if the bush is covering everything, but you shave it down and now you trunked up.
Trunked up.
You thought only girls could be trunked up.
Dudes could be trunked up.
Okay.
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Now let's get back to the show.
All right, guys, we're going to take a break for a second because honestly, I think some of y'all need the smoothest, the coldest cannabis smoking experience that you can ever have.
And it's very simple how you're going to have that.
You're going to have that with the freeze pipe.
I mean, look at that right there.
You see that liquid in there, that glycerin right there?
You're going to put that in the freezer.
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I'm telling you, you're not doing those coughs.
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Not some multicolored bullshit.
You got at some fucking taco stand in Tijuana.
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Class claps cheeks.
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Now let's get back to the show.
Also, guys, I got to sit in Liver King's stanking like shit-ass seat to tell you about some tour dates.
Big Daisy Energy Tour is wrapping up.
But before it does, January 14th, I'm at the historic Wilbur Theater in Boston.
Bring that ass out.
It will sell out.
January 20th and 21st, I'm going to be in Las Vegas at the Virgin Hotels.
You know why.
February 9th through 11th, I'm going to be at the Punchline Comedy Club in Sacramento.
And March 9th through 11th, I'm coming back to Miami.
Guys, y'all showed us so much love when we were there.
Show the same kind of love when we come back to the Miami improv.
Get your tickets at akashsing.com.
Now let's get back to Liver King telling us he's a liar.
I was so curious with the email.
At some point, it showed like the amount you were spending per month on all that stuff.
Could you break that down?
Like everything you're doing.
I want to spend that.
Just break everything down.
And then tell us where we can get the Canadian version for way cheaper.
Well, let me start with another silver lining.
Yeah.
Derek sent my email, shared my email with the world.
Do you know how many pharmacies and clinics have reached out and said you're paying double the amount?
You know how much money I'm already saving?
You know, I just upgraded.
I got into the hotel yesterday.
This guy saved you $60,000 a year, Derek.
More than that, we upgraded.
We're going to Florida after this.
Upgrade fucking hotel.
But all the money's in the growth hormone.
Testosterone is $100 a month.
Testosterone is $100 for three months.
So testosterone doesn't cost anything.
It's very cheap.
The peptides that I had taken, all the peptides are long gone.
I tried all these peptides to try and increase my growth hormone.
None of that worked.
My growth hormone never registered any kind of bump.
My IGF-1 levels, which is kind of a long-term indicator of what your growth hormone is over time.
A lot of times people go take a growth hormone test.
It might not register anything because it's so volatile over time.
So IGF-1 is like, okay, what's your growth hormone long term?
What has it been like, you know, for like, I don't know, the last six weeks or something?
Maybe I'm wrong about that, but whatever.
The money that I spend is really on the growth hormone.
Right.
Like when he says that number, that's on the growth hormone.
People have been asking me, so how much do you actually spend?
I'll tell you this.
I mean, it's enough to buy a car every month.
That's how much it is.
You know, but now I get to save 50%.
Thank you.
Yeah.
But again, my goal is to save 100%.
I'm getting off this.
And my goal is to save 100%.
So the number he shared was pretty accurate.
And how did you feel the day you found out that he had made this documentary about you?
Like you woke up in the morning, you saw it.
You know what's funny?
I was sitting, ironically, maybe not ironically, I was sitting on the pew inside of my house.
It's a really dark space, and so I'm sitting on this pew, and it's probably 8:30 at night.
This is when I go to bed.
A church pew?
Yeah.
A church pew.
Do you have a church inside of your house?
We have a church pew inside of the house.
Oh, just the pew.
Got it.
Do you have a breather?
I have a confessing to do, I guess.
I have special moments there.
And it's also a place where it's dark.
It's just a sacred place to be.
Yeah.
So I'm going to bed and I just look just to make sure.
Every night I make sure any emergencies, any emergencies, you know, and you know, 19 out of 20 times, no emergencies, I go to bed.
So, anyways, I turn on my phone and like a WhatsApp group threads, like, do we need to get crisis management involved?
And I'm like, okay, here we go again.
I mean, because this happens all the time, right?
And somebody sent the link.
I hit play.
And I'm like, okay.
Derek's already made five videos.
Right.
So I'm like, okay, here's another video.
So I respond, I don't have fucking time for this.
I'm going to bed.
Somebody responds, go to minute 32.
I go to minute 32 and my heart starts going.
And I go, wife.
She comes over.
She sits right here.
I watched two minutes of it.
Yeah.
Holy fucking shit.
And so, again, the immediate reaction is like, okay, no point crying over spilt milk.
Like, you can't fabricate this.
Yeah.
You know, this is, I mean, he reads everything that I wrote.
Like, you can't fabricate this thing.
You know, and so I didn't watch the rest of the video that day.
But what I did do is I got in touch with, I called him again to say thank you.
I don't know what good will come of this.
You know, this is why, you know, I've achieved the success that I have.
Like, one of my superpowers is focus.
Okay, we did that.
No, no point, you know, crying over that.
Like, this is what I got to do.
You know, so I started developing my path forward.
And again, like, when you express gratitude and appreciation, at the same time, you can't live a life of scarcity.
You can't live in a life of fear.
You can't hate people at the same time.
So if you're grateful and you expand, you know, and you live up that philosophy of abundance, you can't do the two at the same time.
So that's what I thought about it.
That's how I handled it.
And I slept like shit that night.
I slept like shit that night.
Next day, we talked to crisis management.
What does that mean?
Some PR, you know, guys, like, here's how you handle the crisis.
Here's what you're going to say.
I'm like, wait, well, hold on.
It's like, anybody who knows me knows I would never say anything like this.
Yeah.
And they took out all my, all the curse words and stuff.
You know, first of all, they said, what would you say?
I said, well, this is what I said to my family.
And they said, well, this is not what you're going to say to the public.
What do you think I'm going to say?
And so then it just seemed like some bullshit legacy media apology.
And I'm like, you think I'm going to say anyone who knows me knows that I would never talk like that.
What I'm going to do is I'm going to say the same thing that I said to my family.
And so it was just clear to me.
I'm like, okay, as long as I make sure everything is revealed right now, this is my opportunity to do this.
So the path forward to me became pretty fucking clear, pretty fucking quick.
And then every day it seems like it got clearer and clearer.
And every day I'm feeling a little bit better.
Did you talk to your guy who was supplying you with the stuff that leaked the email?
Have you spoken to him since?
And how do you feel about him leaking your email?
Yeah, this is real interesting.
I call him the clown coach because here's the thing.
I just saw a video about him saying that everything on my apology was a lie.
Yeah, he just made a video about that.
He's your coach, though.
Well, this is real interesting.
He tries to say he wasn't because he refunded my money and he wasn't actually my coach.
This is what he said.
I'm sure after this got leaked, and I'm sure after they mentioned his name, a lot of his coaching clients left and said, or are concerned.
So he probably tried to make a public appearance to say, oh, no, I wasn't actually his coach.
I refunded his money, which is total fucking bullshit.
Well, is that for illegal reasons?
I don't know.
I don't know.
And the truth is, I don't really care.
You know, it's like people like, hey, aren't you going to sue X, Y, and Z?
I'm like, for what?
Why would I sue anybody?
And I want to make it really clear.
This guy was never my dealer.
This guy didn't supply anything.
I was being monitored.
I had an actual hormone clinic and a clinician that was over.
And so here's the problem: my blood chemistries were fucked up and I actually needed help.
And this is why it's so important.
If you're going to touch any of this shit or if you're on any shit, get managed by an actual professional because my lipids were all fucked up.
My liver enzymes were high.
And so I sent to this guy, this coach, and I sent an email to Derek.
I saw that.
I sent it.
Derek has had this for a year and a half.
Yeah, that's funny.
Anyways, looking for help.
Hey, what do I need to do?
You know, because my current clinician, I felt like, what's it going to hurt if I get some more opinions?
These guys know this shit.
Let me reach out to these guys.
So I enlisted his help.
You know, he helped me out for a while.
But I'll tell you, he never fucking refunded my money.
And listen, I'm not asking for the money back.
You know, to me, it's like, okay, he did what he did.
Derek did what he did.
Like now I'm in a position.
Again, I'm not apologizing because I got caught.
I'm apologizing because what I did was wrong.
Getting caught has this is my reality.
I'm facing my reality.
They helped me come to my reality.
They're helping me express my truest self.
You know, one of the other silver linings, I've alluded to this before is, you know, my kids, I'm sure, have thought that I'm like a larger than life figure, you know, and they get a CB drop to my fucking knees.
And that's what I want to ask you about.
Going through the whole, like, you have to, everything happened, you get exposed.
What was the conversation with your kids like?
And how did they respond?
The conversation with my kids was almost identical to the apology email, the apology video, because we sat down at the table and I looked at them and fuck.
You know, I told them that I lied to them.
And fuck, man.
Were they like, why the fuck would we been eating all this liver bullshit?
Goddamn Skittles or something like that.
That's disgusting.
I'm dying.
Why am I eating bone marrow?
Buy me a hamburger.
At the end of the conversation, they said that they're not eating liver or testicles that day.
We're boycotting balls today, dad.
But that's a conversation I had with them: I've been lying to you and I'm on steroids.
I was on steroids.
I'm on steroids.
Here's why I justified it.
All that was wrong.
And I feel horrible about doing that.
And probably I regret most.
I feel like I've let a generation down, you know, of young people and my kids, you know, to mislead them.
So I should, what I said to them is almost identical to the apology video.
And, you know, immediately and then Liver Queen's like, you guys understand?
And they're like, yeah, yeah, we understand.
I said, you guys understand also that there's going to be a lot of comments to you guys about what a piece of shit your dad is.
There's going to be a lot of other comments, grown men saying hurtful stuff to you guys.
And, you know, this is, I know my job as a dad.
It's pretty simple.
It's to affirm my kids with a depth of challenge, worth, and potential so that one day they come to believe in themselves.
And so I have to also protect them along the way.
I've not yet completed that job, right?
Do you regret putting them in videos and stuff before that?
Do I regret it?
Yeah.
No.
No, I don't because my kids have such a unique story to tell.
You know, one of my kids, Rad, has been through this incredible health crisis that has been recovered because of ancestral living.
And you know how many other kids are going to be able to learn about this because of his exposure, his ability to tell that story.
Could also, I could also see it.
Um, you know, that you know, Jordan Peterson and his daughter went through a similar thing.
I don't know, his daughter was battling a lot of uh, I think, I don't know what the diseases were, but she went on a strictly meat diet.
Yeah, you hear about this, yeah.
And I think Jordan even went on a strictly meat diet, like it's just meat and fucking water.
Yeah, that's it.
And he said it's really alleviated a lot of depression.
Like, she had a bunch, I don't know if it was like an autoimmune disease or something.
It was something to that effect.
And she said that that is completely, you know, cleaned that up.
So, clearly, there are things that you can do to augment whatever situation has been presented by your body.
And while I see on the outside someone going, Oh, this guy's exploiting his kids for his business, I could also see from the inside you going, Someone else might have fucking kids who can't breathe, and they're going to get to see how my kids' lives completely changed doing this ancestral living.
And I think that is the beautiful thing about vulnerability and honesty.
But you can't have the vulnerability with the character.
And I wonder if moving forward, we get to see more Brian Johnson.
You know what?
This is my commitment.
You know, I've had enough people close to me who have said, The best podcast you ever did was Dire of his CEO because this is the one that you are the most vulnerable.
Yeah.
And I thought, are you serious?
Like, and then I would ask five other people, and then most of them said the same thing.
And I'm like, holy shit, you know, like, I'm learning something, you know?
Finding Strength In Vulnerability00:03:41
And so it's not real easy.
I never had any exposure in the public eye.
I had always been a very private person.
I never wanted to actually do this.
You know, it wasn't until I had enough conversations, people coming over to my house saying, what y'all do is fucking crazy.
What do you guys do?
They need to make a movie about you.
You need to go on social media.
And then you hear that enough times.
And I'm like, you know, like we went out to butcher a cow at Liver King Ranch.
And then after taking everything out of it, we put our kid inside of the cow because they've done this in a movie.
You know, Revenant, I believe, with Leonardo DiCaprio.
He gets inside of a horse.
And so then Rad puts his head out.
We all take a picture.
And you're like, oh, we're, you know, this is what we do.
We're having a good time.
Everybody gets bloody.
Everybody has their hand on the animal and has the respect for the animal.
And you hear that enough times, like, okay, fuck it.
You know what?
Like, I think you might have a point because the message, the vision of all my companies is the same.
You know, it's to acknowledge how desperately people are hurting.
And there's a simple solution.
It's called ancestral living, right?
And how can I do a better job at this?
And let me try the social media thing.
And so we started trying the social media thing.
And I'm like, wow, like this is working out, but not having any experience sharing all my private shit.
Yeah.
You know, I'm sharing everything.
And I appreciate you saying that it seems like I know how to handle myself on a podcast, you know, because this was amongst what I was terrified most to do.
You know, I mean, if you look at some of my first videos, they're horrific.
You know, and so this is what I'm figuring out: how to blend, you know, my truest self, you know, and to be vulnerable.
You know, and this is what I say a primal is.
It's your wild, raw, first version self, your undomesticated self.
And when you can be vulnerable and connect, you know, like immediately, instead of telling lies and being cool and all that other shit, it's like, there's so much more that comes from that.
I know this.
Yeah.
You know, and so it's taken this experience, say, okay, like enough people have spoken.
And this is my commitment, you know, is to share it all, especially the vulnerable pieces.
Because you know what?
Like, not every day I wake up saying, it's prime time.
I don't feel like it.
I say it.
I say it.
And, you know, there's a lot of days I wake up and I feel like shit.
And every once in a while, I've said this on my story.
I'm like, I woke up today and I feel like shit.
Yeah.
And I'm going to go force myself to get in the cold plunge to feel better.
And then I've got these.
That's more motivational to me.
Yeah.
Because I feel like shit.
I feel like that more when I wake up saying it's prime time or whatever you said.
Well, thank you for saying because this is what I'm realizing.
I've gotten enough feedback to just be like, you know what?
Be 100% honest about how you're always feeling.
And I've gotten favorable feedback about, hey, you feel like, oh, guess what?
You're a fucking human too.
I go through that all the time.
And I've gotten enough DMs through this process of people that were fans, haters, and left, and now are fans again hearing some of the story right now.
And so I think I've been really encouraged just to say, and also to want to teach my kids this too, just like, be completely yourself.
Be vulnerable.
Let it all out.
It's not always prime time.
Yeah.
And to that point, the guys I know with the best relationship with their dad, it's a vulnerable relationship.
They don't look at him as some perfect superhero.
And if they look at you like that and then they fuck up, then they're going to be like, look at my dad is perfect and I'm such a piece of shit.
And it actually is a detriment to them.
So being vulnerable with them is the best thing you can do, I think.
Yeah.
And that is really one of the silver linings in this is for them to see what I'm going through right now.
You know, to be able to talk to them about that.
And I do think that's going to really make our relationship closer.
Yeah.
Listen, before you get out of here, I just have a couple questions that I'd love to ask you.
Okay.
Let's do it.
Healing Relationships With Patience00:10:43
You've eaten a lot of testicles in your day.
Which are your favorite?
Which animal has the most delicious testicles?
Deer.
Wow.
Why do you think their balls are so savory and great?
Yeah, I'll just say it.
I'll just fucking say it.
You've never had such tender and creamy testicles because these deer testicle, oh my God, you guys, it's like, because a cow testicle, you got to chew.
Yeah.
You got to chew, right?
Yeah, you got to choose.
Those sperm are big, right?
It's like bulls, dude.
Do they bull nuts?
Oh, that's right.
Yeah, cows don't have testicles.
It's a bull.
Wait a minute.
Hey, yo.
Wait a minute.
Fucking bull testicles.
Give me a break.
Did someone trick you?
But this is the deal.
I mean, this is my answer.
Is there any ancestral benefit to semen?
Yeah.
I'm not sure.
Dude, gay dudes are actually pretty fucking gay guys.
I mean, testosterone is made in your balls, right?
Yeah, yeah.
So you're getting it from the tap, but you don't do semen.
You're just taking steroids orally, really?
Semen recycling is a really common thing.
Yeah, listen, I've never seen modern-day primitive culture tribes drink semen.
Oh, really?
You know what I mean?
It's more like a ritualistic.
Yeah, they get it straight from the source.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Show me the video.
You want to see the video?
Actually, don't show the wrong video.
Some Nat Geophotographer, like, all right.
Okay.
How much HGH does Biden need to get through the next two years?
How much do you think?
I know $12,000 a month?
I know.
I don't know.
I know it's hard.
All it was.
Fuck, I don't know.
Tell him to start, and I guess he can tell you.
Fair enough.
How much money would you spend per month waxing your back?
Oh.
I don't shave anything.
Never?
Anywhere?
I've never shaved.
I don't shave my chest.
I don't shave my back.
You don't landscape a little?
Oh, fuck no.
Really?
Yeah, really?
No hair in your back at all, dude?
Maybe a tiny bit.
I mean, I don't shave my back.
I'm checking it out.
It's pretty clean.
There's one little mole with a little stringer.
Yo, with all the steroids, you think you'd be way hairier.
I'm not sure I believe this.
Yeah, that's fine.
That's a lot of testosterone to be, you know what I mean?
You know what I mean?
A lot of people have been asking, too, like, what are the side effects, you know, of taking them like, I'm probably the wrong person to ask.
But because I saw two side effects that are pretty serious, and that's, again, why you got to get monitored, right?
I saw my lipids.
I saw my liver.
I also saw my estrogen, you know, get a little fucked up.
Oh.
What was happening?
Well, but that's the thing.
I saw it on a blood panel.
I didn't feel anything, you know, from it.
Like, you didn't notice like your story's getting a little bit more boring.
You know, you start watching shitty movies.
You didn't notice that at all?
Like, it was constantly unhappy.
Yeah, fighting for no reason, refusing to apologize.
You didn't notice that at all.
You remember freezing at a restaurant?
Maybe a little bit.
Yeah, and you know what?
Maybe I got a whole face full of fucking acne underneath the beard.
I don't know.
So the thing is, everyone's different, you know.
But no, I've not seen any other issues.
Did you ever have Reud rage?
Liver Queen is laughing.
She just snitched on you.
She's laughing and ducks.
I mean, he throw 100-pound dumbbells.
You know, I've said this comment quite a bit.
Like, in life, you get what you demand or you get what you tolerate.
And I've never had a whole lot of patience.
And I hold myself to the highest fucking standard and hold the people around me to a pretty high standard.
That's never changed.
You know, before, during, hopefully after, that will remain the same.
So I don't believe I've ever.
The thing is, I don't even drive.
So, you know.
You don't drive?
Well, you can get angry.
I'm on.
I know.
You know what?
I correlated that with Rode.
Oh, all right.
But in terms of being like at home and doing this.
Listen, like I said, I mean, like, I don't think it's increased at all.
Yeah.
You know, like, like I said, I've never had a whole lot of patience.
The whole demand and tolerate thing has always been something I've had insights.
So you're always raging.
Sure.
That's probably pretty accurate, actually.
That's one thing that the diversity is.
And these kids are looking forward to you calming down.
And they're like, no, he's just a dick all the time.
It's not storage.
It's just my dad.
That's right.
That's right.
Any more questions for the liver king before we get out of here?
I'm actually curious, what were you doing before you were doing supplements?
Like for business?
Yeah, yeah.
Prior to that, we had a vertically integrated dental operation.
So what I really mean by that is you guys might know that my wife is a retired dentist.
You know that.
Retired shouts to ancestral living.
Yeah, there you go.
And so she had every discipline of dentistry worked underneath her.
So if you needed anything related to dentistry, we had the oral surgeon, the periodontist, or you name it.
We had the imaging center that was there.
We had a lab that was there.
So it was a pretty big operation that we had going on.
We did that for a long time.
We did that for, I don't know, maybe 10 to 15 years.
And one day she said, I'm done.
She goes, I'm done.
And she's like, this is on you.
And it's the best thing that could have happened, you know, is for her to say, this is on you now.
Yeah, it wasn't very ancestral living off your wife's money.
That's right.
That's right.
It's not that primal.
Whoa, that's awesome.
Oh, you're 100% right.
I mean, think about it.
That's not ancestral at all for her to be providing.
You know, like what she needed to do was breaking news.
Was getting great.
And, you know, caretake, compassion, make nurture and nurse the stuff.
You're wearing a shirt and shit.
Like, no stuff.
House possibly.
Disgusting.
So were you stay-at-home dad?
No, So really, we were walking around the surgery center all buffed, knocking shit over.
Like, what were you doing?
Yeah, pretty much that.
That sounds about right.
I was fucking shit up pretty bad.
So when we met, I was in device sales.
She was a dentist.
And then she came to Houston.
She started doing dentistry for other offices.
She goes, I hate this.
And I don't want to work for other people.
I was like, okay, well, let's go do this thing.
So we started this thing.
We bought a practice.
And we're like, oh my God, we're pretty fucking good at this.
And so we just, we built it and we grew it.
And instead of referring all of these patients outside to other specialists, we brought them all inside.
And so we did this for a while and it worked out financially.
We struggled also during the time because we overbought the building that we were in.
But long story short, you know, like that starts to go downhill pretty fast.
And so then I quit my other job to come in and to fix this.
So she focused on dentistry and I focused on the business fucking shit up pretty bad.
You know, the building that we have, there's also a surgery center, you know, with some surgeons that were, and so talk about fucking shit up around surgery centers.
Yeah, yeah.
They don't make them for big guys.
And your supplements are always ancestral in nature, or if you said 2014, you've always been doing this kind of thing?
Yeah.
You know, actually, when she said, okay, I'm done, I said, okay, well, you know, what am I going to do to figure this out?
And so the first product I had is called Tooth Restore.
This is my idea.
Thank God it didn't come to market.
It is coming to market.
But the root cause of most oral issues have to do with our nourishment and mechanical loading.
And so most people aren't eating liver.
They're not getting bone marrow.
They're not getting what they need from egg yolk or the sun.
And so how do we get that shit in a capsule?
And as she starts talking to people about the nourishment, hey, here's what you need to be eating.
Here's how you address the root cause.
I don't want to see you again.
You're fixing them.
You're fixing them so they don't need to come back to the dentist.
Well, this is what she's trying to do.
And you know what?
People are patients are saying, just fix my teeth.
Yeah, yeah.
Just fix my teeth.
You think you're going to talk to me about nutrition?
Just fix my teeth.
And then there's a small percent of patients are like, okay, but you know what?
I can't eat liver.
I tried it.
It's disgusting.
It's just in my mouth.
Yeah.
Yeah, I don't want to do that either.
You know, actually, we had a lot.
We were in the gay community, so a lot of them did enjoy it.
So what ends up happening is like, okay, I got this idea.
Let's do this.
And then I realized, you know what?
This is way bigger than this.
This is way bigger than this.
We're not going to do this just related, just targeted to the dental community.
And so that kind of took off from there.
So she got you into ancestral living.
You know what got me into ancestral living is my boys couldn't breathe.
Right.
It was that mostly.
And we cut out all the processed food.
That's not mostly.
What's he laughing at?
You couldn't just say I'm wrong.
But we cut out all the processed food.
You did what your wife told you, though.
Listen, we're all married.
We're trying to give her respect.
We know that is ancestral.
It's not like she got you into the face.
Your wife tells you to do some shit.
You do it.
Okay.
We know what's up.
Liver kick.
That's the real liver kick.
A bunch of queens on couches and chairs over here doing what we're fucking told.
That's why we're still goddamn alive.
I love you, babe.
I fucking love you.
Okay?
Now, this is beautiful.
I'm glad you came on here.
You know, I think that all too often, you know, you see this in comedy.
You see this in pretty much every industry.
People get written off for a mistake that they made.
And, you know, one of the things that I think that we like to stand on over here is that we're not part of the whole, you know, I guess you could say cancel culture umbrella.
Now you did something where you fucked up.
You admitted you fucked up.
We learned more about you as a person and your motives for not only building your brand, but also like building out this flagship ancestral living ideology that you've been sharing.
After learning that, I think that's really cool.
I think I understand you as a man a lot more.
I'm going to call you Brian because I know you as Brian and I think that you're a fully formed person as Brian.
So that makes that means a lot to me that you came on.
Thank you for sharing your story, brother.
And I hope you enjoyed yourself.
Best of luck with everything in the future.
Thank you, guys.
I appreciate it.
Thank you, bro.
Thank you.
Anything you want to tell the people before we leave?