Tony Hawk and Andrew Schulz dissect the skater's improbable rise, detailing his $500,000 royalty buyout rejection and the historic 900-degree trick at X Games 99. They analyze how ESPN's superior ramp facilitated the feat while debunking myths about solitary planning, contrasting raw talent with the grit required to survive concussions and bullying. The conversation highlights Hawk's strategic pivot from streetwear to mainstream celebrity, emphasizing that his longevity stems from skating on his own terms rather than team obligations. Ultimately, the episode reframes extreme sports as a testament to community resilience and the power of maintaining creative control over one's legacy. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Representing Streetwear Culture00:08:56
What's up everybody welcome to flagrant 2 it's your boy Schultze I'm here at Akash saying Alex Media Mark Gagnon we got the truffle and we have a very special guest very special very very special guest let's just start it give it up for Tony Hawk You have a video game.
I've been trying to think how many humans in history have had a video game.
Do you know?
No, I mean, there are guys with their signature on it.
Yeah yeah, not many.
Tom Brady doesn't have a video game.
Michael Jordan had one, but it's bird.
Yeah yeah, he didn't have to share it.
Yeah, I think there's only a handful of people.
It's a pretty crazy thing.
It was a huge honor.
Yeah, I mean, I want to talk about so many different things, but the reason why I really wanted to talk to you was I only understand from an outside perspective, so that you could be, you know, like a PR genius and you could be knowing how to handle yourself perfectly.
But from the outside perspective, I've always thought that you've handled fame, immense fame, incredibly well.
Oh, thank you.
Yeah, like I don't know, you just seem humble.
You seem like really nice when everybody meets you.
I haven't heard of any like crazy stories about you.
Oh, Tony Hawk's a jerk, it's always like Tony Hawk's the nicest guy.
Or did I meet Tony Hawk?
Like you have a fun lap trolling thing that you're doing people and and I'm just curious, like you see people get like broken by fame.
I think what happened was I had fame very early in my life well, a modicum of fame, yeah in my late teens and lost it, lost my career, lost everything, just because skateboarding took a downturn.
Yeah right, and so maybe there were parts of that time frame where I was taking advantage of fame or where I was kind of living it up and and then, when it was all stripped away, I was so thankful to still have skating and then I never lost that uh, that love for it.
So when it, when skating came back around, that is the core of what I do and what I'm thankful for, and so everything else is more incidental.
So, in other words, like you kind of need it to be stripped away so you can appreciate it absolutely, there's a humbling yeah, yeah and um.
But also I and I had, I had enough brushes with other people who I considered I looked up to and and it didn't go well and it was so impactful that I remember that I was like, oh man, never wanted to make.
Yeah yeah yeah, yeah.
I'm dying to know who I'm dying to know.
There were just a couple, a couple pro skaters back in the day, where one famously spit on my skateboard when I was just trying to sort of buddy up and so and.
But also I saw that do you have a name?
Was he a dogtown Z?
Yeah, I mean no, but everyone is story.
I don't like, and I don't like throwing him under the bus.
So okay, because you're so much more famous than him well, I give him a shout out.
You're not in the video game, buddy.
We've made amends and so um.
But it was More that I saw people that didn't appreciate that you were respecting them.
Yeah.
And that you aspired to be that.
Well, hopefully, you know, at some point, aspire to be them and then realize, like, oh, no, I don't want to be like that guy.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, and I'm just, I just love it.
Like, I can't believe how far skateboarding has come.
I can't believe that I still get to do it for a living, that anyone even cares that I do it or like who I am.
And so, everything, everything's just like a nice surprise.
It's just so, it's just so unique that like you don't start believing it because you've been famous for decades for skateboarding.
And when you say you can't believe how far it's come, it's mainly because of you that it came that far.
Yeah, which you played a big part in it.
Well, thank you.
Um, yeah, but but at the same time, I'm I just love being part of it because I represent a very small faction of skating in terms of like I'm a half-five skater.
Yeah, that's not the that's not the go-to choice for kids to go skating.
They want to just go street, they want to go jump down the stairs, they want to be Niger Houston and Paul Rodriguez.
And um, so what I'm doing is sort of this antiquated version of what skateboarding is, but at the same time, I have a voice and I'm able to represent it.
So, I want to represent all aspects of it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And so, I think I've learned to be cognizant of that and to try to spread the awareness better than just saying, like, we need more vert ramps.
Yeah, you don't want to be like the old person, like, uh, going, they shoot too many threes, yeah, right?
Like, you want to make sure that you're like appreciating and like uplifting the new wave of skateboarding, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And, and for sure, you could, you could come at it from a bitter perspective where it's like, I, there was one skate park when I was growing up, and we had to drive it through rainstorms.
Now, there's a super hot take that Mark brought up earlier because we were discussing.
We're like, okay, we got to talk to Tony and we're talking about like impact.
And we, we come in here, like, I don't know if you've listened to Podcast Board, but like, we'll have some wild takes and then we try to justify it.
And one of the wildest takes that might be justifiable is you started streetwear.
Yeah, yeah, I believe that.
Oh, wow.
I believe that.
No way I would take that.
Now just facts here.
Remember, this is Feelings No Facts on this podcast.
Now, how did Tony Hawk start streetwear?
We're talking about streetwear.
This is like hip-hop-inspired clothing that everybody's wearing right now.
Now, Mark, get to how Tony Hawk, skateboarder from San Diego, 54 years old.
Am I supposed to?
I'm 53.
Am I supposed to defend the position?
Am I supposed to be?
You're going to dispute it.
You're going to defend it and you're going to dispute it.
Yeah, yeah.
He's already on board.
He's like, whatever you want me to say.
Okay.
So, but he had a good argument.
Okay.
So go.
So I played the games growing up and I love them.
And I always noticed that on all the games, there was like the soundtrack was instrumental.
So to back up a little bit, streetwear, in my opinion, is basically the merging of hip-hop culture and skateboarding.
So you have like brands like Supreme and stuff that, you know, Palace, things like that, that skateboarding, hip-hop come together.
So basically, once black dudes start skateboarding, streetwear is born.
And in my opinion, I think most black kids started skateboarding because of the video game.
Now, Mark grew up with no black people in his life.
Yeah, I know one.
So he's guessing.
Now, you have that one friend.
Yeah, exactly.
Imaginary.
But Al could probably confirm that that is true.
Now, I grew up in the city skateboarding, right?
I had a fucking vision skateboard that just had the little baby lip on the front.
I didn't think you're that old.
I'm old.
37.
I'm out here.
So, but, and I remember, I remember it becoming popular.
And I remember the video game.
And I remember my friends like Dominican, Puerto Rican, black dudes were all playing this game, right?
It was also popular when like snowboard video games were coming out as well.
And that was going.
But I remember an interesting thing happening because later on in life, I would play FIFA, the soccer game.
And I knew nothing about soccer.
And I had friends of mine that were black were like, bro, this was us with skateboarding.
Like, I only knew these guys from the video game.
I didn't know them as actual athletes until after I started playing it.
Right?
So these worlds collide.
This fashion that becomes the predominant fashion for people now, I guess, maybe under 30, right?
Everybody is going crazy because of you.
Oh, well, you need a cut.
You need a cut.
I'm pretty sure.
I'm doing okay.
I think more that when I was working on a game, I set out to bring the skate culture with that.
And that involved the skaters, the tricks, the look, the music, the culture.
And so I was really proud of how it was represented in the game.
I really thought that the game was only going to be popular among skaters.
Yeah.
I thought it was going to be like, I inspired some skaters to buy PlayStation.
And to me, that was it.
That was the mark of success because it's because that means they appreciated it for being authentic.
Right.
And what I didn't, what I didn't anticipate was that it was going to resonate far beyond skateboarding and to gamers.
And so I wanted, I definitely wanted to be inclusive.
I think there's, you know, part of me regrets not being more inclusive with the roster of skaters.
But because, you know, we only had, we had one person calling you, we had one female skater.
But a lot of people point to that.
There was a female skater in it.
Yeah.
It was a steamer.
Adding More Chicago Shows00:03:00
I didn't know that.
Yeah.
In the first one?
In the first one.
Yeah.
Wow.
And you could have also just had you and everybody would have been like, yeah, yeah, I play that game all the time.
I didn't know there was anyone else.
Yeah, we just used you.
But it was also a sign of the times.
It was also a sign of times in the general layout of skating was more white.
And so, but, but I'm thankful that if that's what inspired people to start doing it, especially in different cultures, then that was awesome.
Like that, that's exactly what I would have hoped for, but I just didn't imagine it would be that big.
Dude, it was crazy.
It was like, I was reading some statistic where like they thought that it was going to sell a quarter million games and it sold five million.
I have a funny story about that.
All right, guys, big announcement.
Infamous store, we have added shows.
Okay, they are on sale.
Portland and Seattle, they sold out in a fucking day.
Thank you so much.
That Portland show is going to be a bloodbath.
So I think it's time we added another show in each of those places.
We also got Sacramento, New Orleans, Chicago.
We have that late show in Chicago.
Make sure you check that thing out.
San Francisco, we're coming.
I think there's only single seats left for that, but maybe try to snag those before that's done.
Make sure you check it out.
And then we have Atlantic City as well.
Atlantic City, New Jersey is also on sale.
If you couldn't get tickets to that Philly show we were just down there, make sure you pop over to Atlantic City.
More dates.
We added Boston the day before New Year's Eve.
So that's the 30th of December.
We added another show at the Wilbur there.
We got Jacksonville, Fargo, theandrewShows.com.
Go check those out.
Get those tickets early because I don't want you to be missing out on a show.
Akash, what you got?
Yo, first of all, thank you so much to everybody who came out through Stress Factory for the last special taping of the special was amazing.
We almost sold out every show.
So thank you guys so much.
And now I am coming very soon to Atlanta, November 6th.
Two shows.
Tickets are selling out.
So hurry up and buy them.
November 13th, we just added this date.
I'm going to be at Fairfield Comedy Club in Connecticut.
Come the fuck through, you nutmeggers.
January 26th and 27th.
I'm going to be at Zane's in Nashville right after Thanksgiving.
Come through December 9th through 11th, DC.
I'm at the Comedy Loft.
And January 7th and I'm, yeah, January 7th and 8th, I'm coming home to Dallas at Hyenas.
Buy your tickets at akashing.com.
Alex, hit it.
And guys, you know what it is.
If you're in the tri-state area, you have a podcast you're looking to record or a photo shoot you want to do, head over to WTFmediastudios.com.
It's located in Soho, New York.
If you're trying to get your home studio or podcast started from home, I do consulting as well.
So head over to WTFmediastudios.com.
And now let's get back to the show.
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Stepping Into Mainstream Fame00:15:56
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Now let's get back to the show.
I have a funny story about that actually.
As the game was getting released, they could sense the buzz of it.
I was just going a million miles an hour because I was still doing X games.
I was just like, I was working on the game.
I was, I was proud of it, but I just didn't imagine it was going to be big.
And they called me right before the release and they said, we want to offer you a buyout of future royalties.
These are shit.
Oh, God.
Did the red flag go off right there?
Do you realize?
No, are you kidding me?
They said we want to buy you out for half a million dollars.
At that time in my life, someone saying a half million dollars sounded like a gazillion billionaire.
And I had just moved into a new house.
Like I was getting pretty good royalties.
Still, I was starting to make good money just from being a pro skater.
And I told them, I go, you know what?
I think I'll still take a chance and go for it.
If I hadn't bought that house right then, I probably would have taken whoa.
But I had just, like I said, bought a new house and was able to pay the mortgage, which is something that was new to me, being able to afford the mortgage on my house.
And so I took a chance and it was definitely the best financial decision of my life.
So were you?
I mean, I don't want to, you know, get in your pockets too much here, but like, I do want to.
So did they give you like a piece of the game?
Or like, how does it work with royalties?
Yeah.
So you just get a percentage of every game purchase and all the money that comes with the game, et cetera.
Like if they sell merch or they sell.
Yes.
Yeah.
A lot of stuff happened based on the success of the game.
I got all kinds of different endorsements and hints and licensing deals.
And I definitely attribute that to the success of the game.
The thing that was the real silver lining to all of it was that all of the skaters had a deal that if it reaches these certain marks of sales, they get a piece.
They get more.
They get almost what they signed up for.
And that original crew of skaters did really well.
That's great.
Okay.
Now this makes a little more sense.
I always wondered how the fuck you were so, at least appeared so liked by these people you would just body in every competition.
Like every competition, you're destroying.
And then I see them on the side of the half pipe.
They're hitting the half pipe.
They're like, they're rooting for this person that is, there's only one person in their way of gold.
Right?
How did they like you?
But okay, that is, but that's just not just me.
That is skateboarding.
Okay.
In a nutshell.
Okay.
It's an individual pursuit, but everyone's pulling for each other.
So that's part of the community.
If you go to a skate park and you see someone that's trying to nail something, you see everyone rally around them.
And maybe later on, you'll compete against them.
But at some point, it's more like you want to see them succeed.
And absolutely, there was some cutthroat competition through the years.
And people had issues with scores and all that kind of thing.
But that was never the narrative.
They thought you got favorable scores.
Or vice versa.
Was it Jordan rules for Tony Hawk?
Was that the...
Actually, I think that through my years, especially in the late 80s and then afterwards in the late 90s, I know this definitely happened.
I started getting judged for what they thought I was capable of as opposed to what was against everyone else.
Interesting.
So if you want to get that.
And that gets really, that gets weird when you want to be seen as a peer to all your competitors, but the judges see you as, well, this is what we saw him do last time.
You're chasing your own ghost.
Yeah.
And even if that, even if what you did last time could be the best performance of the event, they're still like, well, he's got to step it up.
So we're going to mark him down for that.
Same thing happened to Rodney Mullen.
Yeah, of course.
I heard Simone Biles was saying that in the Olympics, that they're judging her based off like the other competitions and not, I can smoke everybody else here.
But they're not.
Yeah, and that gets really, and that gets isolating because then all your competitors are just like, you know, they don't even really identify with you.
Right.
Wait, what do you mean by that?
Well, let's put it this way.
When I was competing, especially in the 80s, I would get, I would, the people who I love skating with and respected, they'd be like, oh man, I'm just hoping to get second.
Really?
Yeah.
So you were that far above.
Did you have like a Kelly Slater-esque run?
Would you see that as your competition?
Like the way that Kelly was just on a different level with surfing?
I definitely had a run of success like that.
Yeah.
But in terms of the discrepancy between you and the other people doing your running.
It's not always.
It wasn't always like that.
And no, I mean, I saw there were plenty of skaters that would come in.
It was just more that I had, I think I had a more consistent run.
Right.
So they paid.
And the longevity.
So other skaters would come in and out and they would do well.
And yeah, sometimes beat me.
Absolutely.
Like, I'm curious, like, do you sit down with like a like a Tom Brady or like, do you sit down with like a Michael Jordan?
Or like, like, are you all part of a group text or something?
No, no.
Like, I'm really, I'm really good at this.
I've never met Michael Jordan.
I would love to.
I am, um, I'm working with Tom Brady on Autograph, IO, the Digital Collectibles.
Oh, okay.
So I have a connection to him.
I haven't actually met him, but we are working together.
But when you see somebody like that, is there like an understanding that you guys have?
You're kindred spirits in a way.
You know, like presidents can all be.
Yes, I don't know.
We come from such different worlds.
I don't know if it would be like that.
I mean, I haven't sat down and you always hear about like Roger Fedder and Tiger Woods being really good friends and Michael Jordan being good friends with Tiger because there's a level of greatness that they understand, maybe a level of fame too, but greatness for sure.
And you, especially Brady, because you guys are both doing it at advanced ages where it's like, you know, this is supposed to be a young man's thing.
And then even when you were doing the 900, you were like older than most of the competition, if I remember correctly, and you're dominating doing historic shit that's never been done.
There's something that very, very, very few people do except you guys.
And there has to be some kind of connection there.
I would think so.
I just come from such a different world of skateboarding that just wasn't popular, wasn't cool.
That's weird doing it against all odds.
So it's a different sort of dream.
That's the fascinating thing for me.
Like when I was just doing some research, like I, I think that most people's perception is you do is like you have long floppy hair and you're wearing like tiny little knee pads skating in the pool.
You, you, this is the chronology I think most people, you do a 900.
A video game happens and then you're on the McDonald's commercial like they don't realize there's any dips change.
Oh, absolutely yeah, and I got a lot of that.
But, like you said, I was yeah, I was 31 when I did 900 and I had been competing literally for 20 years.
Yeah wow um, and so the wow.
The odd thing about that is I had, I had decided that year that was 99.
I decided that year was going to be my last competing year because I had chased it for so long and I had a young family and I was just gone chasing the points all the time and it just became like it became too much.
And so in my head I didn't was it wasn't some formal announcement.
In my head I was like, all right, this is the last time we do it.
And then when uh, the X Games 99 happened, I had no plans of doing 900.
Yeah, just sort of unfolded that night and it took a lot of tries.
If I remember correctly, it didn't decided up to that point took 10 years of tries yeah, but like it was after the competition.
Right, people were like it was after the competition.
Yeah, and I mean that there was a lot of elements to that.
But when I finally did make it, I didn't think it would count for the competition.
Right, it was just more that I was.
It was like a skate.
You saw an example of skate determination.
Right, that's what it takes to be to learn a trick, even from the most basic, like a kid learning a kickflip.
They finally make it all that.
Yeah, so what?
That's what I went through.
I didn't think it was going to be for the competition, or even on air um, but I knew that I was gonna either gonna make this trick or get taken away in ambulance.
And then, when it finally happened um and, and all it was it was, you know, made a lot of noise and news I thought oh, that's my out, that's my, you know right yeah yeah, I end on a good note.
Yeah, that's like the Jordan, you know, shot over.
Was it Byron, Russia?
Yeah, game six, game winner.
Okay, but then you came back for more.
Uh, I competed through the rest of the year and then, every once in a while, I would come back for special events.
But, but in terms of being a non-stop competitor uh, that was the and, and it allowed me to to do all kinds of different opportunities, different projects that, to me, were more fun because uh like, we started the Boom Boom Hutcham tour two years later and that was an arena tour with skateboarding motocross bmx, live music and we were the stars of the show.
Yeah yeah yeah, and I couldn't have done that on on a competition uh schedule yeah, if you're on the circuit yeah, and and also when people come to our shows, they saw the best skating because we were, we had the freedom to try something.
Miss it, Tried again.
So I did a bunch of 900s on that tour.
Really?
Yeah.
Oh, yeah, that's interesting because, like, yeah, when you watch, like, you know, I grew up surfing, so I'd watch all these like surf videos.
I'd be like, wow, whenever I'm watching a competition, it's not as cool as these like surf videos that I'm watching.
And I'm realizing they have that freedom.
I guess it just try the craziest stuff because when you compete, there's a certain conservative approach where it's like, I got to do the stuff I know I can do.
Yeah.
If I, if I make that, then I might be able to step up a little bit.
But you're not going all out.
Yeah.
Because that risk could mean that you might not be able to remove and that's over the, I just don't understand how you can have like the maniacal approach that you need, like the fucking Kobe Jordan shit that you need to be the greatest at it, but also just be cool.
Yeah.
Like, like, I'll be honest, like, people tell stories like, I don't want to talk about the dead, right?
But, you know, but like even about Jordan, like people didn't like Jordan.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
Like, and most people.
Basket millionaire.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But you know what?
I saw, I watched the documentary.
The last dance.
Yeah, the last dance.
Yes, I have a, I, I have a level of fame and people recognize me and I get to do, I get crazy opportunities because of that.
Yeah.
Um, but what they were dealing with was, is on a whole different level.
Everyone was into basketball.
I don't think you know how famous you are.
It's hard to believe this, but I just mean in terms of like that and in terms of the competition, I understand that people, he would, he might rub people the wrong way because that was require a fierceness all the time.
Right.
Where everyone's relying on them to win or to carry this legacy.
And I'm just going to skate park.
Like, I guess a whole city cares about what Jordan does.
He's carrying the whole city.
You're carrying Tony Hawk.
And you could go to the skate park and just a public skate.
Like now you have your own, obviously, but like you would feel comfortable just going to the skate park and like skating with people.
Yeah, I was, I was just here like a couple months ago at the skate park down the street.
Yeah.
And it's never been an issue for you.
You're never like, oh my God, the crowds are going to come swarm.
They're going to shut down the mall.
No, it's fun.
It charges you up.
You know, because I was going to ask you, when did you start to realize you were a celebrity?
Because skateboarding, my cousin used to skate and then I would pretend, but I was too pussy to do anything.
So we knew of you.
But then there was a moment in my mind, again, after the 900, where you became like a mainstream celebrity.
Did you feel that shift happen?
And when yeah, well, after that, especially after the launch of our first video game, before that, I would only get recognized by skaters.
Yeah.
That was it.
Right.
Because the only people who liked skating were skates.
And then after that, especially after the rise of the X games and our video game, there became a fan base for skating that didn't necessarily skate.
Right.
And that's when everything changed.
Yeah.
So I would get recognized in airports.
And I remember, I was in Vegas at a bar.
And this woman said, Tony Hawk?
My son thinks that they named a video game after you.
Or no, my son thinks they named you after the video game.
My son, like, he thinks that your parents named you this because of you.
It's a prophecy.
Yeah.
And that's when it got to be like that, where the name was sort of beyond me as a person.
How did that feel?
Was that like an ego blow at all?
Or was that?
No, it's hilarious.
I love it.
How do you balance like the time requirement for your, you know, for your chosen profession?
Like, like, you know, you got to skate a certain amount of times.
And I ask this selfishly because I'm trying to balance it out.
Like, I got a fiancé.
This guy's time management is crazy.
Yeah, like I'm literally picking your brain for like my hopeful future.
But like, you know, like you, you know, you have to be skating X amount of hours in order to keep your shit, to learn new tricks, to keep all these other motherfuckers nipping at your heels at bay.
But at the same time, you got a family, you got kids.
I don't feel that pressure anymore.
With the family or with the family, this was the trick.
You should try that.
No, it's still, hey, I'm well, you should, my wife and I, we have six kids and five are out of the house.
Okay.
So three are in college, two are just grown-ass men.
And so, but, but to answer your question, that that pressure never ends.
Really?
We're still helping our kids just be adults, you know, to navigate life.
Like that, that never really ends.
You keep stay a parent, even if they're not in the house.
But I don't feel the pressure to be so on point skating because it why what about early on?
Like when you're in the midst of yeah, I did, but but I, but I just loved it.
So that I, I was doing it by default.
I wasn't training.
Interesting.
You know, I just, I just loved, I love creating new tricks.
I love, in fact, when I was competing, I felt like I was stifled because I couldn't go out and try crazy new stuff because I might get hurt or I might do something like I might learn a trick and then want to do it the next time at the contest and probably too risky at that point.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So the fun part of skating was taking it's kind of similar to stand-up.
Like, I don't want to give Seinfeld credit for this because he's annoying, but like Mark was saying that like Seinfeld said that he likes skateboarders because they're like comics.
Saving Money on Loans00:03:17
And what was the exact thing?
It was like, they just keep trying something and it fails almost every time.
Eventually it works and then it's a great feeling when it works.
But I felt that way when I was preparing for the special that we just did.
I was just like, sometimes I just want to go up and say something, maybe a fucking bomb.
Maybe it's good.
And then I'll find some new little portal into something else.
But when you're trying to lock down every single word for a special.
Exactly.
It's the same thing.
It's like you can't take that exact risk.
Yeah, yeah, it ruins the freedom a little bit.
Yeah, absolutely.
But even with like family and that kind of stuff, there was never an issue.
You're like, yeah, I got to go skate.
There was never like, oh, we need to have some time together.
I probably through the early 2000s, the heydays of my video game, I might have chosen skating or events over being a parent.
That didn't bode well for relationships either.
But yeah, I definitely, I got caught up in it.
Did you develop like a good excuse?
You might want to do that?
No, we need to.
So get on Letterman.
Yeah, yeah.
That's what it's going to be.
Just tell your girlfriend.
Sorry, baby.
I'm a skateboarder.
Yeah, I'm a skateboarder.
I've learned to prioritize since then.
You ever just walk her outside, turn around, look at the house and be like, you want me to stay home or you want me to.
No, never ran that.
My girl died on a big fight last night.
And during the whole fight, she didn't know that you're coming on today.
And I was like, oh, she don't even fucking know what I'm about to drop on her.
I don't even fucking know.
I was a little bit late because I'm preparing.
I'm working.
And she's upset that I'm late without knowing why I'm late.
And I just suddenly threw it out there.
I was like, I was like, yeah, listen, I'm sorry.
I'm preparing.
You know, Tony Hogg's coming on tomorrow.
And I just saw her eyes light up in the middle of the fight.
And I was like, yeah, you're done.
You got nothing on me now.
They never thought I'd be using ammunition like that.
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Rollerblading Fads and Jokes00:06:57
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Yeah, I don't know.
I'm always curious about that.
Like, people have gone through.
Well, I think you're very humble about it, but I think that what you've explained.
Well, but I came from a world that was largely shunned and you were made fun of.
Explain that because I don't think even my generation understood the idea that you were bullied for skateboarding.
Like, that didn't exist.
Absolutely, yeah.
By whom?
Like, I imagine by anyone my age, really?
Yeah, because when you in the late 70s, early 80s, skating had been through a fad phase, so it was like a toy, it was like a frisbee, like a yeah, yeah, yeah, like a yo-yo.
That was it, he was really in a yo-yo.
Yo-yo, frisbee, yeah, that was it, skateboards, and then and then I saw something else in skateboarding because I went to go to the skate park when I was young, and I saw people flying around and I want to do that.
Yeah, when I dove into it headfirst, like that, literally, headfirst, um, the fad was over.
And so, when I was walking through high school, especially early, like junior high and high, high school, skating is like, still skate.
Oh, it was antiquated, yeah.
It was just like, well, aren't you too old for that?
I'm 14, it's like a pogo stick or something, like a high school playing with pogs.
I used to hide my skateboard in the bushes before school, because if I carried around school, then I was just marked and I could hassle.
And so, through those years, and then at some point, it started to come back around.
Back to the future happened, uh, back to the future happened, and skating started to get back in the fold.
And then, by then, I was sort of in my later years of high school, and so people knew that a pro skater went to their high school, but they couldn't pick me out.
Wow, so here, so you're already professional, you're already very successful.
Yeah, I owned a house when I was a senior in high school.
That's crazy, and none of them knew that that's what you were doing.
You had to hide it from them.
Well, that's like being gay at that point back in the day, you cannot be like, Hey, mom, I skate.
Mom, I ride.
I used to get uh, if I so I do remember carrying my skateboard through the parking lot and a dude yelling skater fag.
No, like repeatedly, just like, okay, dude, I get it because it's a long, it's a long parking lot, yeah, and he's driving through and like skaterbag, dude.
Okay, but no, I'm not going to, I'm not going to liken my experience to that of someone, of course, of course, of course, but it's the same, but but yeah, no facts literally.
This is feelings, no facts, yeah.
But okay, so then there's this turn, right?
I remember rollerblading got popular all of a sudden too.
Yeah, and then like that was more mid-90s.
So this is already after rollerblading.
Yeah, so skateboarding came and went like late 80s.
Okay.
Again, more as a fad, but a little more established.
Yeah.
And so people were, I think that people held on to it longer and that it sort of they love the attitude.
Of skating, they love the sort of diy and that it was different and it had all the folks, music and stuff like that yeah, so so there's a lot of people especially now who skated in those days and they, they credit skating for their approach to life.
My company, but then doctor, he would 100 say the same thing.
But then when it died, when it died like in popularity again because all the skate parks were closing, they couldn't afford insurance and people started taking to the streets but yeah, just was less popular.
Rollerblading was on the rise and I credit rollerblading for, for supplementing my income, because I got invited as the special guest to a bunch of rollerblade shows.
Hilarious, oh I yeah, I remember that.
So there'd be, you know, there'd be like, for instance uh, there were um, some demos happening, skate exhibitions in the parking lot of Six Flags, and it was because of rollerblade, and so there was all these pro rollerbladers and they would invite me like hey, special guest skateboarder Tony Hawk, and then Matt Hoffman, special guest bmx rider, so he and I were like the, the outliers yeah yeah, but getting paid, so we're like okay to ride ramps.
Yeah, sign me up now.
I think some people credit this one almost like Dad Joke for rollerblading dying.
Do you believe that it's true?
It's like, what's the hardest part about what is it?
What is the joke?
What's the hardest part about rollerblading?
Oh yeah, what's the hardest part about rollerblading?
Uh, telling your dad you're gay?
I, I truly do believe that joke killed rollerblading.
because i had rollerblades and i heard that joke once and i looked at them i was like i don't want to have to tell my dad yet Do you think that that joke had anything to do with it, or or why did it just go away?
Why did it disappear?
It was a fad, it was.
That, was it?
So it was just a fad?
Yeah, absolutely.
And then rollerblading was long haul.
Skateboarding was long haul.
Sorry, sorry.
Skate skateboarding was long, skateboarding was yeah.
I think that when you look at, especially with the X Games, they were throwing everything against the wall.
So they had, they had rollerblading, they had rock climbing, they had skysurfing.
I remember Spongy jumping the snowboard in the sky where they're doing all that.
That was weird.
And so then, but those are different than rollerblade.
Rollerblading is like a pretty, you're on the ground.
Skysurfing is a different.
But the irony is that rollerblading was was more close to what we were doing because it used the same ramps.
Yeah um, I saw them as kind of kindred things.
Yeah, I mean, there was.
There was a lot of parallels um, I think the the funny part is that when I started skating, there were a couple of roller skaters oh yeah, skated quads yeah yeah, and they really did the kind of tricks we did, because they would skate in this um sides.
I don't know what it's called, but they're not, they're not going forward like this, their feet are like this, oh yeah yeah yeah yeah, and.
And so they would do mctwists and hand plays.
Oh, and we're talking about like mid 80s.
They were on the vert pipe.
Yeah, roller skates yeah yeah and, and so they, they paved the way, I believe, for for the rollerblade.
Inline rollerblading is, oh, you can't say that no it's, you want to be pc is inline skating yeah yeah, yeah.
We have another word that you can call.
But I never had that beef or that attitude because I was just like, we're all just doing our thing, raw on the half pipe.
I remember I got caught up in the fat of the inline skating as well.
Surviving Concussions Inline00:03:36
And then it just became too much of a commitment when you go to do it because that's what I was carrying sneakers with you.
Skateboarding is convenient.
It's like a whole all-day thing.
That's it, it's just convenience.
They were stunk.
The pad smelled so bad.
But you got to take them off and put on shoes.
Skateboarding is like, if I'm going somewhere, take the skateboard, hold the skateboard, I'm done.
Dude, I switched it together.
Yeah, but I still wear pads at least.
It's hard to get that stink out.
Dude, I went to Woodward.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And got a huge concussion.
But you went as a kid?
Yeah.
To Pennsylvania?
Yeah, Pennsylvania.
That was the only one back then.
Right.
And I remember I got a big concussion, like to the point where I woke up and I was looking at people looking at me and I was like, yo, what's up with y'all?
Like the most of you.
How many think you've had?
I don't like to talk about it.
How did y'all get CTE?
What's that?
Why is it just the football players that are like shooting people and that kind of stuff?
There's no probably around 30?
What's going on?
Somewhere between 20 and 30.
Wow.
But of varying degrees.
Right.
Oh, so you can have the if his mood changes on this podcast.
I'm getting the fuck out of here.
Don't reach for the gun behind you.
We're tempting you.
Really?
Like 30.
And are you worried about CTE stuff at all?
Yeah, I've studied it and taken tests and stuff.
And are you all doing okay?
I have now way out of my element, but I know that there is a gene they test for getting Alzheimer's or dementia.
Yeah.
And whatever you either don't have the gene or you do have it.
I am.
If you have that gene, then you're more likely to develop CT from concussion because your brain doesn't heal.
I know there's probably a bunch of people.
I'm sure doctors out there.
He doesn't always talk about it, but I did study it enough to know that I have the gene that allows my brain to heal.
Gotcha.
Okay.
Okay.
And then just some people don't.
They end up getting that.
I don't know if it's as easy as that, but that's what was presented to me.
Okay, fair enough.
And so I feel pretty good about it.
But I take precautions.
Like, I have helmets since even since you got hurt.
Yeah.
I've come along.
Really?
Yeah.
What was the brand?
There was one brand, everybody.
Protech.
Pro Tech.
I knew it.
Yeah.
It's Protech.
Is that still the brand?
Pro Tech is still a brand.
I'm on Triple Eight.
I knew that.
Oh, I'm on Triple H.
That is cool as Logo.
Dude.
You know what's happening?
And definitely that helmet has saved my life.
Like, I don't, I'm not, it's not pitched without question.
Really?
I've hit hard enough where I knew, and I've hit hard enough to save me from a concussion.
So I've hit hard enough in that helmet where I'm like, oh, when you said earlier, I'm either landing this trick or I'm going home in a hospital, hyperbole or truly felt that way.
And that's the commitment.
Ever since absolutely.
Really?
And how do you gear yourself up for that?
Like you just get so in the mode and so committed.
I think what it is when you taste that it's possible, there's no turning back.
Ah, once you feel like you almost got like, oh, I yeah, there would be, I mean, I know people have seen that video.
If you watch that video, there's a couple of attempts that I got where I was like, oh, this is it.
I'm way closer than I've ever been.
It's going to happen.
And you never landed it prior?
Landing The Best Trick00:13:28
Not even close.
I got close.
Yeah.
Like stuck it and then I landed and uh I landed on the wall and then fell into the flat bottom and broke my rib.
Oh shit.
Yeah.
And I thought that going back to the X games, I thought that I was going to do that that night because I thought the only time I've ever really almost made this, that's what happened.
And so I'll take that.
And then when I did fall forward, I didn't get hurt.
And so I had this epiphany that maybe I need to shift my weight mid-spin so that I'm leaning backwards.
So then on another attempt, I landed and it fell backwards.
And that was it.
That was the moment.
Because I remember when you landed it, you landed it deep in the pipe, but you also like squatted low.
Yeah, it was more that when I let go my board, the weight distribution was the key.
So when I, yeah, I definitely had to save myself a little bit because it was still a little bit in the backseat, but it was enough to stay on.
I mean, that was just crazy that you were able to stay on.
Like at that point, I've had years of we call it the squat.
I've learned to squat in desperate situations.
And not a lot of skaters can do that.
Because also you're 6'4.
6'3, yeah.
6'3.
Okay, so it's like, it's not like there's certain guys that are like, they're like 5'4 or whatever like that.
And doing a squat is nothing.
It's more in the legs.
Like there's, I know there's a handful of skaters that have the squat and they are all shapes and sizes.
Interesting.
And if you can't do it, it's more that you can't get your knees to bend that far.
Yeah.
And a lot of skaters will be like, if I had squatted, like I'm definitely tearing my ACL or I'm shooting out.
And so it's, it's a gift and a curse, though, because sometimes you do it when it's not necessary and it's so ugly.
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I always wondered about that day for you.
Like, was there anything about that day that people don't know?
Like, are you like, are you going, I'm going to make history today?
Or you know what I mean?
Like, I think the misconception is that there's definitely a lot of folklore about that.
What is the craziest thing you've heard that is just not true?
Oh, well, there's this whole narrative.
Someone that I planned the whole thing.
I kept other skaters out of it.
It was, you know, everything was leading towards that moment.
And if you really look at the history of skating, in that year, there were best trick events in other events.
And I was trying 900s.
Other skaters were trying 900s.
We couldn't do it.
But I never relied on that.
So I always had a strategy where I would have a trick in mind that I knew would probably place well that I haven't done or that I've only done a couple times.
And that was my strategy for the best tricks.
So when we went to the X games, they chose the people who had done well in all the best trick events.
So anyone that didn't place, maybe was just trying 900s, didn't make it, they weren't chosen.
Oh.
Because they weren't placing well.
You got to land something.
You got to put something.
You got to land something.
Right.
But also in the when it came to the X games, the best trick events, I think that's the misperception is that they were just afterthoughts.
It was like, we're going to have the contest and the contest happened.
And that was the big event.
Now let's move around.
You guys, you got 20 minutes, try stuff.
And it was just a bail fest and people weren't even sticking around for it because maybe you saw one or two tricks landed, but it was only for the hardcore skaters.
So when they did it at X Games, our attitude was the same.
It was like, oh, they're not even going to air it because we're just going to be falling.
And so going into it, I had one trick in mind, which was a very all 720.
So it's a 720 spin with my body.
And then I turn my board an extra 180.
So basically, my board is a 900 and my body is a 720.
That was literally my best trick.
I had done it once before.
And I didn't know if I could even make it in that time.
I made it like 10 minutes in.
And then that was it.
So you had one in the bag.
That was my best trick.
Now it's time to have fun.
I didn't even have a plan.
And the announcer, Dave Duncan, who I love, still is announcing skate events.
He's like, oh, maybe we're going to see that 900.
What an asshole.
And so I thought, all right, I'll try one for the crowd.
It was more like, oh, here's what it looks like.
Here's an attempt.
And then after, I think my second or third attempt, it was really consistent.
And I was spotting the landing.
And I thought, well, just try to land it and break a rib again.
So what?
That was it.
That was the craziest mindset to me.
If I break a rib again, so what?
There's like, I mean, if you're ever going to, you're going to land something or try something, it's in that moment.
Yeah.
It's, it's the most widely, the biggest, the biggest venue we've ever had, the biggest viewership, and not even viewership, but just more like the most excitement.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And no one had built it.
I mean, I heard my friend say recently, like, yeah, I was always bummed that ESPN got that.
And it wasn't like in a skate, skate-only event.
And I said, well, at that time, no one could have afforded to build a ramp expression.
Like that was the best ramp that we ever had.
Yeah.
And that's, I credit that as much as anything.
Yeah.
And what was so specific about it was just built really well.
It was really solid.
They had the money and the means.
And so when you back then, when you skate wooden ramps, homemade ramps, there was a lot of flaws.
There were, you know, one wall was this.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
Or the coping was bad.
Or, you know, so you had to find the pockets of the ramp that were good.
And that was more what you spent your time doing was making the ramp work for you.
And then this ramp was like.
Perfection.
Yeah, as perfect as it could be back then.
Yeah, that's interesting.
Like you hear that with basketball, like that, there's dead spots in the Boston.
Yeah, the old car.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
And they would force like Celtics defenders would force players there to get steals.
Yeah, there's just like old wood or stuff that they put down.
And like, you don't even think about that, a billion-dollar business that that could exist in these areas, but I guess, especially if you're doing these like local events back in the day, there's they just got to hire somebody everything was terrible.
So we just made it work.
Yeah.
And now I have what I consider a perfect ramp, which is which actually makes it hard for me because when I go out and skate other stuff, oh man, everything is a struggle.
And I was just used to trash before.
Right.
And then you became awesome because you were working on the worst shit.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Why do you have that gap in your ramp?
Uh, oh, because it was originally for that ramp was for the huck jam.
And so what the huck jam was my tour that I told you about.
That ramp was built for that.
Okay.
And so we had a big ramp that was, I think, about 30 feet high that would go through that gap and then we would jump the whole length of it.
Oh, shit.
So that's what that's what it was.
Okay.
And then you just kept the gap.
Yeah.
I mean, it poses, it's function.
I mean, it looks crazy on video.
Yeah.
It looks terrifying.
It can go horribly wrong.
Have you seen somebody?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Have you ever?
Yeah.
No.
I know exactly where to be.
Like, there's, there's a certain angle to getting over it.
And if you're on that angle, even if you're going to fall, you're going to make it the other side.
Yeah.
It's more that people who don't skate the ramp that much and they don't realize the opposing wall, what they're doing.
I've seen people just go through it.
Like where, you know, they come up and they're like, oh, there's no, do you remember the skier?
His name was Bodie Miller.
Yeah.
He said something once and it kind of like blew my mind a little bit.
And he was like, I'm not better than these guys skill-wise, but I'm willing to take more risk.
And the guy kind of like pushed him on it.
He goes, I'm going to take a harder line and I'm going to put my life on the line more than the average person will.
And I always wonder, like, how much of that, like, is how much of that lends itself to the success of somebody who's doing these extreme sports.
Like, do you know certain guys that are more skilled, but they just don't have the balls?
You don't have to say their names, but like, do you ever look at certain guys and be like, man, if he would really throw it, he could be.
Yeah, sure.
You see it a lot.
And it's hard to be on the sidelines wanting to push them into it.
Like, you can't be more excited for someone's career than they are.
Yeah.
But, but a lot of, but often I'll see something and sort of help someone unlock it because I could see that they would be capable of this and they're just not really pushing it or haven't even thought, oh, maybe I could take it this other way.
And I've definitely helped a few people get to a certain trick or a certain technique because they just didn't see it in themselves.
But other times, I've seen like the most raw talent go to waste.
Just because they didn't have the drive.
Yeah, man.
It's yeah, it's just, it's kind of crazy.
You need to be able to risk it.
It's a it's just something you can't see.
Like I have often used an example.
Lizzie Armanto, who's on our team.
She's awesome bowl skater, or she skates birds sometimes.
But she did, she did our full loop ramp.
Yeah, so that her approach and the way that the way that she ended up doing it is she tried.
I mean, usually when we do it, it's this whole production.
We've got all these pads, learning the pads, and then we start removing pads to get closer.
When she finally was ready for it and there were no pads, she ended up falling like four or five times, but managed to get out.
Yeah.
There's a photo of her knee sliding at 12 o'clock.
Wow.
So upside down, fully.
Fully upside down.
Off her board and then sliding around.
And any one of her falls would have driven someone away.
Like, I'm not doing this.
This is too gnarly.
She just kept and yes, we're giving her pointers along the way, those of us who've done it, but at some point it's on her.
Yeah.
And I try to tell people that, like, you cannot teach that kind of grit or so will.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's just, she just has that.
Yeah.
And I feel like there's a certain faction of skaters.
They just have that.
It doesn't matter what.
It doesn't matter what, how they were guided through.
It just came with it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
There is that like, I don't want to call it like insanity, but like that drive that the greats have, it exists in the same way.
But you really need it.
Like you can get by with like good fundamentals in a sport that's not as dangerous.
Sure.
You know what I mean?
Like a guy with really good fundamentals and enough size can exist in the NBA and he can have some mid-level contracts for a while.
Like they can, you're 6'9, you're going to be in the NBA.
But if you actually want to be one of the greats, you have to have that fucking killer thing.
Have you seen the video of Nigel Houston doing the grind on the freeway?
Embracing Hope Bombs00:03:24
Or like grind on like his balcony?
Yeah.
Like overlooking like a 30-story drop.
Oh, yeah.
And he'll just like ollie pop up 50-50 then jump off.
Yeah, I mean, that's the beast of his skills.
Yeah, right.
But the, but being able to overcome the fear of like looking out if I fall freeway.
Yeah, it's like the free according guy.
What's his name?
Alex, Alex Honel.
Yeah.
You know, just, do you think you have some of that maybe?
Like, yeah, I jumped a, I jumped between two seven-story buildings downtown LA.
And I never imagined that it wasn't going to work.
You know, I think that's what it is.
When you're in that kind of mode and you're presented with that sort of stunt or challenge, you never think like, oh, it's still terrible.
That's what's going to happen.
That's the only thing I think.
What about that?
What does that say about me?
The only thing I think is...
That's why you were there that day jumping in with me.
There you go.
100%.
I'll be on the elevator.
But do you do you think about that when you're on stage?
On stage beforehand, I definitely think about it.
But when you're up there, you can't really think about it.
Yeah, you're just so locked in in that moment.
It's like when they say if you're driving a race car, wherever your eyes go, that's where you're going to go.
When you're skating, you think like, oh my God, what if I, what if I sketch out?
What if I, that's, what if I don't grab it?
That's happened.
It's almost liberating for me before I get on stage and be like, yeah, I might bomb.
Let's hope I don't bomb or something just to like acknowledge the thing.
And then it's like, all right, well, it happens, it happens.
You keep going.
But that's it.
Like, I'll say to people if they're like, hey, yeah, great, I was looking for it.
I hope I don't bomb.
And then I just say it to everybody, like, hey, this could happen.
Let's just go do it.
Interesting.
It's weird.
It makes me, it takes it.
I think it's more when people go down the rabbit hole of visualizing, what does that look like?
Oh, yeah, yeah.
The bombing and the embarrassment.
The heat.
Yeah, me saying it, just like, okay, acknowledge it.
Now it's done.
Yeah, yeah.
Oh, boy.
Sweat, boy.
Sounds like Vietnam.
It is.
Yeah, bombing is a physical experience.
It really is.
Of like your body.
Like, I would distinctly remember like drips of sweat rolling down my back.
Yes.
And like, you get so quiet.
I was like, can they hear the sweat dripping through?
When the bomb first starts and you feel it here.
Yeah.
And then you're like, ah, shit, here it comes down the back.
I know it's coming.
I know it's coming, dude.
Dude, I've told this story before, but like my worst bombs, I remember the sound.
I distinctly remember the fish restaurant.
They were frying shrimp.
Yep.
And I knew shrimp because I heard the person order it.
I heard the person at the table order it.
And I was like, man, I'm doing bad.
I can hear the orders in this room.
And then I literally heard the fish dropped into the fryer.
Now the shrimp dropped in the fryer.
I was like, what is happening right now?
Does somebody make any sound?
It was that.
And then I would hear drinks blended.
Oh, yeah.
Some clubs have the blender like on the premises.
Like, why would you even offer that to us?
Right.
But I just remember hearing ice being crushed.
And I'm like, hey, what do you guys think about this thing?
And then nothing.
And then.
Did you hear them signing their check?
The bullpoint pen?
What is 20%?
How can we get out of here quickly?
It feels dumb telling a bomb to Tony.
You black out.
Yeah, maybe like your ribs broken.
I woke up.
Letting Eddie Algara Go00:15:11
I definitely have off days of skating for not performing to what I thought I was capable of.
And that it's, it feels the same.
Oh, interesting.
Why couldn't I just do that?
And I usually have to, I end up having to try to compensate.
Like, what do you do?
I'll just be like, okay, I'm going to try something super hard and keep it that just so like they so that I perform something for them.
Yeah, so you give them some good shit.
Yeah.
That reminds me of something I read when I was obviously researching for this interview.
You were like, used to take failure really badly.
Oh, yeah.
How did you get over that?
I read any failure.
Like you struck out and they said you struck out in a baseball game as a kid and you had to like, your dad had to like go get hiding in the canyon.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So how did you get over there?
Some guy just following you like skater fast.
Don't play baseball.
I think it was more that because I found skating, it was on my own terms.
And that's, that was the, that was the advantage because I hated letting down the team.
Right.
Oh, and I just letting you down.
Or, or that I did well and the team sucked.
Yeah.
And then we lost.
That I couldn't connect that.
And so when I found skating, it was just on my terms, in my own style.
And I was still part of the community and I could still compete.
And so I think that was that was the key.
But definitely, I think probably what I can only attribute to my longevity is that even when I did my best or even when I skated well and maybe even won the event, I wasn't happy.
Really?
Because it wasn't my best.
And that's what Stacey Perelta, who ended up putting me on the Bonesby team, that's what he said he saw in me.
It's just like, I saw this kid that was doing these incredible tricks and just walking out the pool pissed.
And that was it.
It was just more like I had this expectation of myself.
And that's all that mattered.
Right.
But how do you find joy in that if you're always feeling disappointed?
Why you live up to your expectations?
Three days.
You had the 900.
No, that was unexpected.
I think at some point I just, I stopped being so, so harsh.
And it was just, I learned to enjoy the ride.
Right.
Was that before or after $100 million?
I'm just curious.
Wait, where's our $100 million?
We knew everything is before that until I see that.
Dude, we don't know what you made on the bottom.
I've looked up his net worth.
If they said that you made $500 million off the video game alone, I would believe it.
I don't know how much money video games cost.
He already said he got half a million.
Half a million dollars.
Half a million.
He got the buyout for half a million.
That's it.
Yeah, that's it.
That's what I haven't.
I haven't told anyone.
You just took it and that was it.
Listen, that's what really happened.
If you can fly to New York just to see Neil Brennan, you got money.
I love Neil.
I'm going to take a Hoover to see me all.
Yo, that's true.
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Let's get back to the show.
Do you notice like if you pull up at the park, like everybody starts busting out their biggest shit?
Like, do you cause more injuries?
How much CTE do you cause?
That used to be the case when it was more that I was competing and considered.
But nowadays, it's more that it's not that they're trying to outdo you.
It's that they want you to notice because they want they want you to think they're cool.
Yeah, or to like, that's their big break.
Oh, you could sponsor them.
Yeah.
Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, that happens sometimes.
But for the most part, it's just more of camaraderie.
It's fun.
Yeah.
Like last time I was here, I was skating with the locals at that park in Brooklyn and helping this one girl roll into the Burt Ramp.
Like that, that's kind of more the vibe now.
Yeah.
I guess I'm elder.
Yo, it's wild to see how many girls are skating now.
It's great.
It's awesome.
When I was young, girls did not skateboard.
No, not at all.
Like none.
And now I've seen girls do it as like a hobby.
Absolutely.
And they have crews.
Yeah.
It's pretty crazy.
Yeah.
There's a bunch of crews here, actually.
Really?
Yeah.
Now, did you see the movie Kids?
Yeah.
When they beat the shit out of that guy with the skateboards in that scene, was there a little, were you like, okay, finally?
Did you picture that guy yelling at you in the parking lot?
No, that was rough.
Even as a skater, that was rough.
It was rough, but like, that's what I imagined what would happen if you made fun of skaters.
So I never understood the bully thing.
Because I grew up on Astro Place in a city where all those guys would skate.
Right.
Like the guy Hunter, I think his name was.
Yeah, Harold Hunter and like a bunch of those guys.
So I would see, it was really weird to like see them in that scene because they were pretty friendly when I would see them outside of my apartment.
And then when they just massacred that guy in the middle of like Washington Square Park.
For context, Andrew really loved Joker too.
Yeah, I really liked the movie.
That's just not vengeance.
Yeah, he hated the ending where he blamed it on mental health.
He's like, no, just kill people.
Yeah.
It's called payback.
Yeah, but of course there's always going to be bad seeds, but I don't see skaters like that at all.
I think that some have become hardened because they have to advocate for themselves because they're always getting kicked out of places.
So that's when they're just like, not leaving.
And I don't imagine most of them starting fights like that, but it definitely can be combative.
Sorry, speaking of getting kicked out of places, my cousin was a big rollerblader, wanted me to ask you, what's your relationship with cops now and what was it then?
Because it's tough for you guys, I assume, to do a lot of things.
But see, I'm more of a ramp ski.
I'm usually skating in designated areas, skate parks, ramps.
So I had my share of that.
Like I got ticketed.
I've gotten We got sent down to the station one time.
Yeah.
Skating on the boardwalk.
Wait, really?
They arrested you?
Yes.
This is the closest a white guy can be to being black.
But I definitely had my share, especially when I started Birdhouse and we were just out in the wild shooting video.
We had plenty of time getting kicked out.
Mostly security guards, but every once in a while it's a cop.
But I live in a very strange realm now where cops recognize me.
Yeah.
And they're hyped.
Oh, that's cool.
Yeah, man, go for it.
Dude, can't play the rules.
It's weird.
And so I get a pass, and it's weird to come to that.
But also, I know if he sees another skater, he's not going to encourage him.
A little unfair treatment.
Yes.
I think it's okay.
It's well earned.
Yeah.
It's not white privilege.
It's, I don't know.
It's goat's.
It's THPS.
It's THPS privilege.
What is that?
Tony Holly.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's wild.
And when you came up, like, I know most, a lot of skaters probably look at you as like, yeah, that's the GOAT.
But when you were coming up, what were the skaters that you, or who were skaters that you really idolized?
They were like, oh, this guy's got it.
When I first started, it was, well, firstly, Eddie Algara was, I thought, the most innovative skater at the time who created a bunch of tricks.
And those are the tricks I wanted to learn.
Was he one of the guys featured in the documentary, The Dog Town?
I don't think he was in that, but no, because his era was right after Dogtown.
Okay.
So he started skating in that time frame.
But then when that, like, basically, he was the, he was in the right place at the wrong time.
He was the best skater when skating was just at a lull.
And I thought I was watching and I was like, learn all his tricks.
Eddie Algara does.
And then Steve Cavalero, because he was around my age and around my, I was super small and he was super small and he was blasting.
I mean, he's the reason that I ever learned how to do aerials because I saw a photo of him doing this giant aerial when he was probably 13 or 14 and he was super small.
He had, he had elbow pads on his knees.
And I used to do that because I was that small.
And I was like, that's it.
If he can do that, I want to do that.
And this is when you're getting over the lip of these pools that you were skating.
Well, he was.
Yeah, that's Eddie Algara, frontside rock right there.
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
That was the first.
So the first difficult trick I ever learned was that trick.
And they moved me up a class competition because I could do that trick.
I couldn't do any other tricks.
But because I could do frontside rocks, they're like, that kid's not in 2A.
He does frontside rocks.
Put him in 3A.
And then getting outside of the pool.
So he's the first person that starts to.
No, I mean, that was like more the dogtown.
It was just, it was more that the aerials had already come into play.
Yeah.
But it was more that I saw Steve Cavallero as this, because all the guys would say, they seem so much, they were maybe four years older than us, but that seems like a huge discrepancy.
And so when Cab was doing these eras, I was like, I want to do what he's doing.
Yeah.
Fly like that.
And then I learned how to do it, but I didn't have the weight to bring me up in the air.
So I learned how to ollie into my aerials.
And that was not how people did it then.
So you're ollieing at the end of the lip.
I'm ollying at the end of and then grabbing my board when I get to the peak.
And no one did that then.
And now I just did it because I was desperate to get in the air.
And that's the only way I could figure it out.
And I mean, that became the standard of how to do aerials.
Anyone you see, like if you see someone doing tricks over a gap or you see them on like they all aim to dare and then grab their board because that's how you get more air.
But when I started doing it, it was considered a circus trick.
Really?
Yeah.
Oh, wow.
Are you just bringing up photos of look up Steve Cavallero Winchester?
What's that?
That's the photo that I was trying to explain.
It was literally.
I wanted to be crazy.
And now, do you look at the new school of skaters?
And are you just blown away by working with a kid that just busted out the 900?
He was like, how old?
Like 10 or something?
12?
It's like, you know, young guys can do the crazy tricks.
Yeah, I think it's because, well, they have the resources now, but also there's an element to when you're trying to do something new.
If you know it's possible, if you know it's been done, it's way easier to get to.
There's a phenomenon.
I forget the name of it.
What is it called?
It's like the guy that ran the Four Minute Mile.
Four minutes.
Like, he actually, it's, it's, I mean, not to get into the whole like visualized thing, but like literally his strategy was, I'm going to visualize exactly how I'm going to do it.
And then it becomes attainable.
And then he fucking did it.
But, and then this happens throughout history.
There's like one guy who ends up doing it or girl who ends up doing the thing.
And then all of a sudden, it doesn't seem like the most shocking thing.
I think it happened four minute miles.
Like one person broke it.
And then immediately in the next year.
Yeah.
Well, so there had been this chase for 900s that happened over the course of almost 10 years.
And there were only a handful of us that were even really trying it and getting close.
And then after I made it, Sandra Diaz did one a month later in Brazil.
Giorgio Satoni did one in Italy, like two months after that.
It just started, it just started.
Did you share with them what you learned?
Were you like, hey, you got to lean back a little bit?
And then.
No, they both had different techniques, but they had both been trying it.
It was more that they saw that it could be done.
Did you visualize?
Did you, were you doing any of this stuff?
Or were you just like, yeah, I'll just keep trying?
I was until I broke my rib.
Okay.
I was obsessed with it.
That's all I would do.
I'd go skate.
I'd just try that.
And then when I finally did what I thought had all the elements to it and ended up falling and breaking my rib, I was like, maybe I can't do it.
So you almost thought it might not happen.
Yeah, I mean, even leading up to the X games, I kind of given up on it because I was just like, I already gave him my all.
Fucking prize.
So that announcer.
Yeah.
Dave Duncan.
Yeah.
Fucking Duncan.
That's why I was.
Where's his points on the video game?
That's what I mean.
Exactly.
You got to add him.
Now, I know, like, you're.
It's funny.
Actually, he was at, there was this backyard skate event a couple months ago, and Christian O'Soy was there.
Christian O'Soy is a legendary skater from the 80s.
Okay.
He was basically my rival in the 80s.
Okay.
He represented air and style, and I represented tricks.
And people had to choose sides.
Okay.
That was very much like the thread of our relationship.
Yeah.
No, I mean, we were friends, but in terms of fans.
The PR and shit.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You didn't, you didn't.
You did.
You did not like Christian Osoy and Tony Hawk.
You had one or the other.
But we were skating and they had a Legends division.
So Christian and I are skating in this Legends division.
And Dave Duncan is the announcer.
And he's like, why don't we see some doubles from you guys?
And both, you know, we've never done doubles before.
Yeah, that's right.
It was you and McDonald with Andy McDonald's at the end of the day.
He and I, yeah.
Yeah, you guys would do the doubles.
Yeah.
But even just for a like for a video or a photo or something.
And so he and I just whipped something up and ended up getting a photo of it.
And now we're selling that for charity.
You can get it right now.
TonyHawk.com.
Where do they get it?
TonyHawk.com.
There we go.
This guy is your guardian angel, dude.
I just remember that.
Like, oh, and it's because he said you guys should do doubles.
And now it's like became a fundraiser for the Star Project.
Wow.
I got to change the world.
Double D. Was there ever a time where like you, when you really started popping on like McDonald's and like the big brands are coming like the Fortune 500?
Was there ever a time where the community was felt like you were leaving them?
No, it was more not leaving them, but just more there was just a sellout.
Spreading Skateboarding Globally00:15:14
Yes, absolutely.
Yeah.
Now, I think that that started with bagel bites.
I had a big promotion with bagel bites in 1998.
Damn bagel bites.
I still have my freezer.
Okay, guys.
Yeah, you know, who else had him in the freezer?
Everybody was hating on you for doing the fucking fucking bagelbites.
Yeah.
But that was the moment when people thought, okay, this is not skateboarding.
Yeah, like you're selling out.
And somehow they thought that I didn't have a value system.
What did they think sponsorship was?
They're all sponsors.
Well, every pro skate to everyone else had to be endemic.
So it had to be a skate brand.
Skate shoes.
Thank you for defining me.
Yeah, I was way too smart for us on that right now.
Endemic?
I didn't understand what's going on.
Yeah, I don't want a pandemic sponsorship.
I've got enough of those.
And so when I did a big promotion, it was like, it was like, how could you?
And I was like, well, how could I?
I've been skating and professionally since I was 14.
If I had gotten the opportunity to do that when I was 14 or 18 or when I had a kid when I was 24, like sign me up.
I eat bagel bites.
I eat McDonald's.
You know, I'm not changing how I view the world or my value system for money.
It's just more like, yeah, now I get to use their marketing money to promote skateboarding.
That's really how I saw it.
And a lot of people think that that's like a cop-out, but that is absolutely the truth.
Because I had final control over how skateboarding was presented in those advertisements.
Oh, really?
And so I knew that we're going to reach a new audience.
So you've always had this thing where like you want to be an ambassador for the sport.
I think that's where it started.
Interesting.
Because it was like, oh, this is, you know, with great, great power comes with great responsibility, but this is an opportunity to really show skateboarding for what it is and not just what they see on X games or in movies.
Yeah.
And I got to do that.
Again and again, I got to do with Bagel Bites and McDonald's and car manufacturers.
And also now whenever I do any kind of promotion like that, there's a caveat that they have to donate to Foundation Skateboard Project.
So I'm literally helping build, they're helping build more skateboards.
This is interesting.
Like I think a lot of times that when people reach high, high, high levels of success and there isn't this feeling that they're like giving back to the thing that helped them reach the success, there is some animosity from those who don't have that success, right?
And because it feels like, oh, you're just using this thing so you can extract as much resources as you possibly can from the world.
And I think it's, it's, I mean, you're doing this because it's genuine, but I think those people who feel like a responsibility to continue like spread the game, if it's basketball, fucking soccer, skateboarding, stand-up, whatever it is, like if you feel responsibility to like keep kind of pushing it, it's really hard to be critical.
It's like you use this thing to gain wealth and now you're giving back to this thing so other people can hopefully use it to gain wealth.
Yeah, and also, but I guess it's more that I just come so far in it.
Yeah.
And I hopefully have proven myself to still be committed to skateboarding.
Yeah.
And the good of skateboarding.
And, but it's still to this day.
I mean, no matter what I'm doing, everyone's like, oh my God, selling out.
Really?
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Maybe that's the only thing they have on you because they can't come for you.
Like they can't come for you.
Like there's certain dudes like like we always bring up like David Beckham in this.
Like David Beckham was more famous than he was six.
He was more famous than he was good at the sport.
Even though he was amazing at the sport, he was like super high level, but they were better guys than him.
Right?
You don't fall in the same category.
Like you were the best at your thing and you were famous.
But I feel like anytime there's somebody who's really famous, but they're not the best, there's this like hate from the community.
It's like someone else should kind of be there.
But I don't understand.
Yeah, that's you.
Well, also, but in my case, because I have such a, I skate this very specific discipline that is ramp or skating.
It's more like, why do people like that guy's best?
You can't even.
Oh, because they're looking at like a double set handrail or, you know, or like the most tech flip trick on the ground.
They're just like, Tony Hawk can't do that.
And they're right.
Did you ever think when you were younger, we were like, should I just stunt on these motherfuckers and just learn how to do skate better than all of them?
Because you had the discipline.
I did.
I did.
I went through my street phase, but at some point started rolling my ankles frequently and doing and rolling them on tricks that weren't groundbreaking.
And then I just thought, if I'm really going to continue to skate, I got to somewhat stay in my lane over here because I know how to skate ramps.
I know how to fall.
I'm still innovative in this realm.
And I'm just going to stay over there.
And that really was the key to my longevity was just doing that.
Yeah.
So you were able to remove yourself.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And also I just knew that my street skating didn't look great.
It wasn't breaking ground.
It was just more like you're just doing it to say you can do it.
Yeah.
You're killing yourself.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It is interesting, though.
Like your size, I feel like makes the tricks look so much cooler on the on the ramp.
Like, because I think shorter people, the spins don't look as fantastic.
Like for me, I don't know.
Like when I see like a taller person that's like lanky spinning, it just seems like a much bigger thing is happening.
Yeah, but also there's this some stork element to all of, I mean, I don't know.
Skating is so much about style.
And so I think I have a more critical eye to all that stuff.
I think I've, I think my style has improved.
Right.
Where it's, it's not as jerky and it's not as wild because I just honed in on all these tricks.
Try to do them in the best way I can.
And make them look cute.
Make them look cute.
Guys, any more questions for the GOAT?
You gotta let you get out of here.
I'm gonna get a commentator for the Olympics.
I was at any like cool stories from that.
What's like?
Is that a fuck fest?
I heard a shit.
I did not go to the village because of the COVID restrictions.
Oh, that's right.
Basically, I had to only be in my hotel or at the venue.
And there was an app you had to install that tracks your movements.
That's called a wife.
That's the app.
It was full on.
It was full on.
But also, I felt very lucky to be there because the skaters, their families couldn't even go watch.
There's no spectators.
Yeah.
And I'm just free roaming.
Yeah.
I mean, I went to the venue.
I was pretty much the first one to skate the park course.
No.
Yeah, because the park skaters weren't there yet.
They were coming in the next video.
Because everybody comes in for their event and then you go.
They're not there for the past.
Yeah.
So I came in and the street, the street area is right next to the park.
And I roll in with my skateboard.
I'm like, oh, I'm getting it.
Just go in and start skating.
It was more about asking forgiveness and permission at that point.
Yeah.
I did get kicked off the street course, though.
No.
Somebody had to kick Tony Hall off the list.
It was funny that the announcer came over because I was shooting the warm-up and I was doing like you could you could stand on the side and shoot video, but I was actually following people through the course with their permission, the skaters.
But then at some point, someone saw me on the camera and went up to the tower.
Fuck is he doing?
So who's the guy that has the dude?
It was this French dude that was doing the announcing just for the venue.
Tony Hawk, please get off the street.
I'm sorry, I didn't want to say that.
I get kicked off stuff all the time.
It's fine with me.
Oh, that's great.
Mark.
Well, I'm curious: two things.
One, how was the experience of skating with your kids?
Like, once they were able to skate, did you encourage them to all of our kids skate?
Yeah.
In fact, when we go travel, the first order of business is finding skate parks in the area, not because I want to, but because they want to.
And then I just become their filmer.
That is absolutely the dynamic of how we travel.
Even here, like when Supreme built the ball in Brooklyn, as soon as we got to New York, they're like, can we go skate to Brooklyn?
Can we go to Supreme?
Yes, I'll find out who runs the place.
And I think the fun thing for me is that not everyone, but so many people skate now that it's more common that they do that they don't.
And so to see them living in an era where it's like all their friends skate or they know skating or they're down with it is really fun to see.
And in fact, I'm more like now non-skaters are the buddy.
Don't worry.
The funny thing about the kids is that like this happens a lot.
Most of them are out of the house now, but when they were living there and their friends were coming who all skate too, they'd all be downstairs like arguing about the origins of some trick name and this.
And I'd come into the kitchen like to get a drink or something.
And I'm just like, do you guys want the answer?
I was there when it happened.
I named it.
That too.
And they're just like, I'm just the dad.
Wow, that's wild.
Don't give us your, don't tell us about your old school stuff.
Yeah.
Okay.
You guys, are you amongst yourselves?
I'll see you later.
Do they play the games?
Do they like them?
Yeah.
Yeah, for sure.
More like my son Riley, he's 28 now, but he grew up in the era of THPS.
Then eventually became a character in it because he's a pro skater.
But he was more of that era.
And then when the remaster came out last year, the other kids picked up that.
That's dope.
I had one, but based another one now off of what Mark said about skating with your kids.
Is there an age where you're like, I think I need to stop skating.
I have a number in my mind or anything.
Are you just going to skate?
I never made those ultimatums, so they just felt like it was backfired.
Okay.
I feel like if I'm able to stand on my own two feet, I'll ride a skateboard.
It might not be on the level that people expect.
And maybe I won't do it in public, but I can't stay on the skateboard.
You can't not skate.
Yeah.
I mean, at this point, I'm just enjoying because I have found this sort of new approach to skating where I can do new tricks and they're not high impact, more technical, and they're really more for the only people who appreciate them are skaters themselves.
Yeah.
For the most part.
Your last video you posted, I didn't even know what happened.
It's like that.
And so I really enjoy that creative process.
And that's what's keeping me fired up.
And if I can't, you know, if I, if, if I don't feel like I'm being innovative or if I'm not really, if I'm not living up to the ideals of a pro skater, then I won't do it in public.
Yeah.
But for now, I'm still good at it.
I have a, I have a question.
We're, well, myself, Akash, and Mark are all stand-ups.
We're very lucky.
We get to make a living doing something we love, something we're trying to improve at constantly.
It's creative endeavor.
It's really fun.
It's exciting.
I'm curious.
If maybe you can give us some advice, some things to make sure we don't miss out on.
Because right now we're in that heyday.
Well, some of us are at a different stage of a career.
Mark is younger in the game.
But like, what are the things that you look back on?
You're like, oh, I really wish I kind of sat and appreciated that.
For sure, the camaraderie, because I was so hyper-focused on competition that I kind of missed what else was happening and the friendships that were made.
And maybe I just ignored it for the most part because I was just, this is it.
This is the goal.
And I see how many people made these incredible friendships along the way and have these memories.
And I was like, what?
Where was that?
I didn't, I don't remember that.
But also the travel.
For me, when I was when I was young, I was this kid from San Diego.
I never traveled anywhere.
And so when I would go places, it was just weird.
Weird food and everything's weird.
And I didn't appreciate that this is something to revel in.
I can't believe I have these experiences.
Now I absolutely embrace it.
But back then, I didn't.
And I feel like I would have had a deeper appreciation for my experience if I had really embraced Europe or really embraced Japan.
Yeah.
I do now.
But in those days, it just felt awkward.
Well, cool, man.
I appreciate that.
I don't know if that helps you guys.
No, it does.
I feel like you're at the age where you're probably appreciating that you get to do any of that stuff.
I think that I'm the luckiest man on the planet.
But like it is cool to look back and like even you saying that about the relationships.
Like I know for a fact, like I've, you know, I've sacrificed a lot to do this.
And like maybe I haven't maintained all the relationships from like comics that I started with.
Like luckily, Akash and I started together.
So we have that.
But there are relationships that I let go.
And maybe I look back and go, man, I wish I put more time into that.
But at the same time, it's like, it's not like I was just jerking off with the rest of the time.
I was doing things to get here.
Yeah, I think that's what it is.
And maybe I was in a position that there was more expectations.
So I tried to live up to it.
But for sure, the camaraderie is everything.
Yeah.
And the community.
And like I said, you see all these a lot of skaters or just people my age that skating was the core of who they are.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because of the friends they made.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
We got to keep being friends, Hakash.
Yeah.
I know.
That's real.
What about what if you guys like one's headlining was not?
Come on, what you doing?
I'm just saying, what happens if the tables turn?
That's true.
What happens, bro?
Yeah.
Yeah, you go over for me whenever you want to.
Done.
I need some more sellouts.
No, but that is a good question, man.
And that's what, obviously, I mean, I want everybody's career here to flourish.
Yeah, that was one thing I know I worked on is like in this business.
I knew I could be really insecure, but I was like, I can never let that get in the way of anything.
That's for me to deal with.
So however famous he gets, I've actually never felt jealous or anything, but like, I have to, if I get insecure, that has to be between me.
You're very unique in especially our business in that regard.
Hawk Versus Wolf Rivalry00:01:22
Yeah.
Like, I think that I think it's very easy to get caught up in our business because you're dealing with probably the most insecure people in entertainment, like stand-ups.
It's not a lot of confidence for you to like walk in front of people and go, I'm the best, or I should be listened to.
You know what I mean?
If something's off, you know?
Yeah.
Turn off that blender.
Nobody has slushy drinks during my show, yeah.
Man, it's um, but yeah, but I think that you've always been amazing at that, man.
Yeah, just being able to like check that out.
I never wanted to lose a friendship over my insecurity, yeah.
That's the thing I always tried to keep in mind.
Even if I have it, I don't want to sacrifice.
Like, I should be happy for my friends.
Let me deal with my shit myself.
Yeah, yeah.
But, dude, thank you so much for coming by, man.
Yeah, thanks.
Tell them everything.
Tell them where they can find like the foundations, all the stuff.
Anything going on?
I mean, your podcast.
We didn't even get to talk about your podcast.
Oh, Hawk versus Wolf, man.
Yeah, Jason Ellis and me, we've got it going.
Actually, we've gotten a really great response.
We've gotten a good following so far, but go check it out.
It's uh, even if you don't skate, I promise you'll be entertaining.
Yeah, and it's funny, yeah, yeah.
So, wild guys, Hawk versus Wolf.
Um, and uh, yeah, we say like and describe that's our catchphrase: like and describe, like and describe, like and describe.
We need people describing how much they like the show so that other people will see that.