Andrew Schulz and Akaash Singh dissect the Johnson & Johnson vaccine pause, contrasting it with Pfizer and Moderna while addressing conspiracy theories fueled by $3.9 billion in talc settlements. They debate the PREP Act's immunity clauses against personal freedom, noting Mark's willingness to vaccinate for travel "luxuries." The conversation expands to organ donation ethics, critiquing capitalist utilitarianism that prioritizes wealthy CEOs over factory workers based on insurance status and hospital profit motives. Ultimately, the episode highlights how legal frameworks and economic disparities shape public health decisions and societal resource allocation. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Johnson & Johnson Vaccine Side Effects00:11:11
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We got Johnson ⁇ Johnson vaccine going crazy.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, this is really funny because Mark has been waiting for this.
Thank God, bro.
Finally, you got the vaccine was working too well.
And Mark was like, fuck, bro.
I knew Johnson ⁇ Johnson wasn't ready.
Yeah, that one shot.
They got a real history, too, of being like shady and like their baby powder's killing people.
Like, this is a fucked company.
Yeah, they don't really do their due diligence, huh?
They don't do shit.
My girl did like an internship there in college or something.
Like, and they were like, they weren't even allowed to manufacture product or something.
Something like that or did she not?
She was a co-op in her business program where you would work, but not like in the factory, like on the other side.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But they weren't even allowed to manufacture products for like six months because they had so many violations of some kind.
And then they had this big celebration when they could finally start like reopening or something like that.
Something to that effect.
And she's just told me for years.
She's like, this company fucking sucks.
Don't trust them for shit.
3.9 billion in talc settlements.
Yeah.
For like their baby powder shit.
When your baby powder is killing people or giving people cancer?
That sounds like such a fucking like lizard people thing.
Like no baby powder not giving people fucking cancer.
That shit was giving people cancer.
But also that's the thing with these lawsuits, though, is that it's like a drop in the bucket.
Because they've made 10 billion on it.
Yeah.
All right.
I think if they had any kind of evidence that this person was wrong, their lawyers would just win up.
$4 billion a lot.
Yeah.
And also, they're not paying that.
They have insurance providers that pay all those premiums or they are paying premiums so they don't have to pay when those lawsuits happen.
There was a really funny Chris Scopo, Joe.
Chris Scopo is a buddy of ours.
Did you see the jokes?
Yeah.
He says, I don't want to butcher it, but I posted my story the other day, but something like, are you really going to trust a vaccine from the guy who owns the Jets?
That's so good.
He's like, there were two in 14 last year.
A couple other tags.
It was really funny.
But yeah, it's a really interesting thing because this is what the vaccine conspiracy theorists want, right?
They want justification for not wanting to take it.
Right.
So where do we go from here?
Like, I thought that all the vaccines were the same.
Why would they not be the same?
Well, this one is one shot.
So it's not the mRNA thing that, like Alex Jones was saying, the mRNA, that's what fucks up your DNA, I think.
This is a different one.
It's only one shot.
It doesn't have to be cooled in these crazy, stored in these crazy cold temperatures, I'm pretty sure.
Like the one shot is not as high maintenance, essentially, as the two shot.
Gotcha.
But actually, a part of the reason we got vaccinated early is my girl was like, yo, Johnson and Johnson, I'm not trusting that shit.
Let's get it before that's even an option.
And I was just like, fine, I guess.
I don't know how shitty.
I kind of believe you, Johnson ⁇ Johnson is shitty, but like it clearly sucks, dude. From the beginning, it was like 64% effective. And we were all just like, what? We're putting this out here in the wild for people? 50-50. Yeah. Coin flip. That's crazy. And everybody's like, yeah, it's still more effective than the flu shot. This ain't the flu. The flu is not a pandemic shutting down the country, the world. This is a different thing. I don't want your flu shot. Suck my dick. Get that out of here. AstraZeneca,
where you at? Fucking bums. What you been doing this whole time? So, so just to clarify, the vaccines that we have now are Moderna and Pfizer. Pfizer, Johnson, Johnson. Right. AstraZeneca is... It's another pharmaceutical company that was developing, I believe, a one-shot. And then somehow it just never passed. So that one never came out. Yeah. Okay. Or it's going to be in Europe, right? Maybe. Maybe. Okay. So, Mark,
what do you think the repercussions of this? Yes. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I think the conspiracy people are going to go crazy, but it's also like a low number of people that have been. So, like, it's still like a big deal to them. Like, it's their lives. Like, I don't know if any of them died right now. Out of seven million. Yeah. I mean,
died? No, no, I don't know if they did. I don't know what their long-term health repercussions are. So I don't want to minimize plotting issues. Only 10 people have blah, blah, blah. Like, it's 10 people's real lives, but it is only 10 people in 7 million shots or whatever. Okay. So. Those are the confirmed ones. There might have been more. Yeah. Like, In what other case are you giving so many people one thing at the same time so that you actually see data?
That's like, oh shoot.
I understand the stakes for the vaccine are a little bit higher but, like you know, not everybody got their fashion merch, you know.
So like, a certain amount of a certain amount of shit gets lost in the mail.
You know what, to your point and to what Mark was saying, if you get any medicine, there's always that thing of side effects may include, and it's just horrendous shit.
And you're willing to do that for Allegra.
You know what I mean.
I got allergies.
I'll put up with the potential side effects.
If you had a Johnson And Johnson vaccine commercial and they were like side effects could include blah.
In rare cases, blood clots have formed you would still be like, yeah sure, i'll take the vaccine though.
You know what I mean.
So to y'all's point, maybe it's not as big of a deal as we're making it out to be.
Yeah, so it's gonna be.
It's gonna be interesting what the repercussions are and it's also, I think it'll expose an interesting thing with like vaccine lawsuits.
So, like as everyone, because historically you couldn't sue for like vaccine side effects.
So if you got a vaccine and got injured from it, like you didn't really have a ton of like legal repercussions.
But as more and more people are getting vaccinated and if there's people that are getting side effects from it, there actually might be and they're being required to vaccinate yeah exactly, there might be legal and like uh, like more legal ramifications.
So what is the legal recourse to a mandatory medical procedure?
Right like, for kids to go to school, you have to have your vaccinations.
Yes, let's say, one of these vaccinations does something to your child right, you can't sue, but your kid was forced to get the vaccine.
Yeah, it's kind of weird, right?
Yeah, i'm trying to understand.
Like I actually wonder if it'll benefit people, because I think like this is where people get all up with the vaccine stuff is like there are side effects to any medication.
Yes, and even though the medication is good, the side effects could be bad and some people are getting injured from vaccines.
But because there's immunity from lawsuits for vaccines, people go like what's happening legally?
Why is there protection against these companies?
Yeah, and there might be an actual reason to protect the companies, but then people are like, oh no, there's no side effects, vaccines are perfectly safe and it's like, why are you saying they're perfectly safe?
Is there's some side effects?
Blah blah, blah.
So I think actually having mandated vaccines for everyone could potentially change the legal future of it, which actually might make it more equitable and make people less conspiratorial.
So the interesting thing about this is that like and i'm not a very big fan of a litigious culture, but a litigious culture does often lend itself to a safer product.
Now, sometimes the product becomes so safe that you can't even put it out right right, or there's so many fucking building laws and regulations whatever, that you can't even really functionally live there, like you're always kind of doing something illegal yeah, and it makes society hard, but there is a protection from putting out some bullshit and just jabbing it into people's veins.
If Johnson Johnson Moderna these, these companies knew that They were going to get sued if this vaccine didn't work, well, then they're going to put extra extra scrutinize, uh, scrutinizing with the process of making the vaccine. Then the vaccine never comes out, potentially, they don't bring it out exactly. Or, now, here's the other check to it: the vaccine never comes out,
now we're fucked. The other check is these are publicly traded companies. Oh, yeah, yeah, so you might not get sued directly, but the net worth of your company could drop so drastically if people were dying from the vaccine that that check right there. The free market is in a way is making you protect your brand and therefore making the best product. That would require that there's media attention to whatever the in this case there would be,
yeah, exactly. Yeah, I think, especially with a vaccine that's this popular, yeah, exactly, which is why, which is to my point, like I think that because it's so widespread now, like there's gonna be more focus and attention on it, and it could actually change people's behavior towards like the vaccine and vaccine liability. The thing with the COVID vaccine, the government passed the PREP Act, which gives all these companies total immunity from getting sued for the COVID vaccine because they have to be rushed out because they probably go, Hey, it's not worth us,
not worth it for us to rush this out because if we could get sued, I mean, there are going to be issues with this thing. So, they go, Hey, we'll give you the protection because people need to get it. And if you know, a higher percentage of people are fucked up by it, so be it because we'll benefit the greater people. If you compare it to the number of COVID deaths, it's like, oh, this is the government's just going to say, Yeah, we didn't mandate it. It's not mandated, it's not even like FDA approved. So, it's like they're doing this weird thing where they say it's not mandated,
but then they're making it credibly difficult for you to live a normal life without one. We have a vaccine passport, but like that's where we're going. And I'm a guy who doesn't mind the vaccine passport, but it is weird that you're saying it's not FDA approved, then making us get it. So, your government won't back it, but also isn't forcing everybody to get it. It's an odd thing, yeah, yeah. It's one of those things where like we're gonna find out how much we value entertainment, travel, and ease of life very soon. Yeah,
and I think people who are even you know skeptical of vaccines, like Mark, don't let me speak for you, but you might have a little higher skepticism of some vaccines than like the average person who doesn't think about it. Maybe, yeah, I guess you could call it skepticism. I just view it as like just a natural approach to medicine, like medicine has side effects, all medicine does. And to approach any medication thinking, like, oh, it's 100% safe, I just think is like fairly, maybe not skepticism isn't the right word, but you're you're uh, you're not as willing to just take a vaccine, yeah,
right? Maybe skeptical is the right word. Yeah, I don't think whatever, however you want to classify it, but like this is one of those situations where you're gonna have to decide if you want to travel to Greece more or if you're more nervous about the vaccine. Yeah, no, I recognize I'll probably just have to get it. Like, I don't care so much for me, and I think like most people with vaccine stuff, they don't care so much for them. Yeah, it's more like their kids. Like, oh, no, I listen, I completely understand that. And the nice thing about having COVID is it doesn't really affect the kids at all, right? So, like,
in my opinion, I'd be like, don't even shoot up the kids. Like, if you're under a certain age, you're going to be fine. I guess you can be a carrier and then go to the bottom. Right now, I think it's not, there's not kids doing it, right? It's not even available to kids. Apparently, kids are getting COVID now, but they're not getting the vaccine if you're under 18. Right. But I've resolved, I'm going to probably have to get the vaccine. I guess what I was, I was trying to use an example for like someone who values the freedoms that you have in life more than you are upset about potentially having to take a vaccine. And I didn't want to take it. I was like, I have antibodies. Like,
Al and I were talking about this all the time. We're like, well, why do we need to? We have the fucking antibodies. But the second I find out, oh, if I want to go travel or if I want to go to a fucking event or if we want to shoot a special or whatever these, and the only people that are allowed to go or only way we're going to allow to go is if we're vaccinated, then I'm just like, it's just fucking easier to do. You cave, son. You cave. I caved, bro. What if in lieu of a vaccine certainty? Luxury. Luxury made me cave. But this is not. It's not even luxury, though. That's like,
Lucy Nicotine Gum and Lozenges Review00:02:34
I don't even believe that because it's also just like human beings want to be together again. So it's not even just, oh, we're so spoiled, which we are. We have great lives in America. Okay. But it's not even just that. It's dude, we have not been together. Human beings are tribal. We haven't been allowed to be tribal for over a year. We just want to do that. If it's a free fucking everybody, just get together and talk in Union Square. It's pretty gay, but we'd all be like,
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Organ Donation Money and Access Issues00:10:19
I'm not saying this is what they're going to do. And I know this seems like a slippery slope argument. I'm not trying to make that. Once we know about ourselves how valuable socializing is and going to these events and doing these things, the let's say, let's just call them like the luxuries of life. Let's just make, you know, once we know how valuable those things are to us, right? Isn't it easier to manipulate us based on those things? When I was in high school, I loved being on the basketball team. It was so much fun. And so did all my boys. And anytime we got in trouble in school,
the first thing our school did was take away our basketball. They go, oh, you're not allowed to play in that game. If you're in detention, you're not allowed to be on the team, blah, blah, blah. So if the government wants us to do anything, I'm not saying this is where they're going with this, but if they do, all they have to do is limit our ability to enjoy these luxuries and we'll cave in a fucking hundred percent. It's kind of scary to know, no? Yeah, yeah. They just game us against ourselves. Like, no pass, no play is what they call it in Texas. If you don't pass all your classes,
you can't play sports on a high school team because they know these guys need this. So this is how we incentivize them to do what we want them to do. Yeah. Now you're more likely to go to class. Now you're more likely to stay. You know what I mean? Try to stay out of trouble. We can easily manipulate humans into doing what we want them to do. You just have to trust. Your government has your best interest in mind. It's like whatever that thing may be. Like some companies will do it with like,
they do it like opt-in versus opt-out things for like retirement funds or like organ donation and stuff like that. Like certain countries will have like mandatory opt-out or it'll be opt-out for organ donation. So automatically you are an organ donor unless you say you're not. Unless you opt out. I think that's what your license has,
at least in New York. Oh no. America's optimal. Oh, we're opt-in. And it changes the rates like 80 to 20, like flip. Yeah. So it's crazy. So if the government's like, yeah, like you should have organ donation or you should have whatever,
like you just have to trust that the government has your best interest in mind. Hmm. But yeah. What do you guys feel about organ donation? I'm a donor. Donor? No. Why? A little superstitious. Like they won't save you as much? Yeah. Isn't that weird? Yeah. Isn't that weird? I guess the argument is that like if you are an organ donor,
and I don't think this is true, but if you are an organ donor, some people say that like if you're on the line, if you're on the border of life and death, and it looks like it's not going to be life, then they'll be like, oh, at least we got these organs. But if you're not an organ donor, they'll do anything in their power to keep you alive. I think you're assuming they know the people that are getting the organs. Like the doctor has a patient who needs kidneys and I know what's going on. No, not even. The list for organs is incredibly long. So organs are needed. Yeah, I know,
but they don't have like any attachment to those are nameless, faceless people. They know people need organs, but they're not like, they don't have like an emotional attachment. They're looking at you. The doctor saying, I'm willing to let this guy die to save someone I don't even actually know exists. It's a hypothetical person that I'm sure exists. If anything,
the doctor is more attached to you, the patient he's trying to save than that random person he doesn't even know. That's a good point. I never thought about like that. I think the only thing with organ donation, like, again, I don't really think doctors are making decisions in like operating rooms being like,
do I save five people or save the one guy with organ donation? I think also a lot of organ donations like go unclaimed because of like timing and shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's like, I don't really think it's as nefarious as that. I think there's like sometimes a money play that like in certain countries you can get money from organ donation and shit like that. So like in that regard, it's like there's some haziness, but in America, I don't really think it makes that much of a difference. Does the hospital that has the organ get paid a fee? Because these hospitals are businesses,
right? For the surgery and like the transferring. But the surgery might not be, oh, the surgery is done there to remove the organ. To remove it, to put it back in, to transport it, to keep it. Yeah, the hospital is making money off the whole process. Hospital. See, yeah, I don't fuck with it. I mean, there are policies, and you probably know more about this, Al, but there are policies of treatment that certain people receive based on the insurance they have, right? So I know it sounds fucking crazy,
but if you have better insurance, you get a better treatment for the same injury. You get better care. You get more people focused on you. So like maybe instead of nurse,
blah, blah, blah. Chris Rock said when he got rich, whatever his dad got that killed him, if he was rich when his dad got sick, his dad would still be alive to this day. Based on the treatment just like agreed upon in the insurance. Yeah, he basically saying he's like, rich people live lives that poor people, like if they knew how good it was for us, they would for sure like kill us all. But that was his point is like even healthcare. If you're rich, you just have access to everything. So I guess my question is, sorry to cut you, but my question is like,
is it possible that that is also baked in to the hospital's bottom line? In other words, if there is an organ donor and they're on their deathbed, we don't need to waste money trying to keep them alive when we could make all this fucking money harvesting those organs. I think you still make money keeping them alive, Though.
Like everything.
Like, Al, if you break your leg, you're going to go to the doctor.
They're going to treat it.
You're going to get billed out the ass.
You're still going to go to the doctor.
You're not going to be like, yeah, but this, you know, you probably have to be there for like a week.
Yeah.
Charging $20,000 a day, every day.
They are making money every single thing.
I think you make crazy money on organ donation.
Because it like disproportionately benefits the rich.
Yeah.
Like surgeries make the most money for hospitals.
Like Steve Jobs needed all these organ transplants and shit.
And so he flew to Tennessee to go get some transplant for his lung or whatever.
Like you have to be like have access to a private jet, be able to be there in eight hours, like that kind of shit.
So it's like disproportionately ultra wealthy.
I know someone personally that's like having all these experimental treatments done just because he's ultra wealthy.
No, wait, wait, what's that about? Just like a personal person of my life that I know that's like. And what's wrong with him? A heart condition. And he's looking for a new heart. Yeah. So he basically has to sit on ice until somebody has his same blood type or all these other things. He's been like exorbitantly wealthy and has had like multiple situations and like things haven't worked out exactly and but just has enough money to keep on throwing at the issue. And so like things like organ donation affect and benefit wealthy people. And too,
I think, I would say two things. One, I think if more people donated, then that wouldn't be as disproportionate because there would be more access. Right now, it's an access issue. Oh, two. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think you'd be comfortable with me saying this. Brian's daughter, when she passed his baby girl, they donated her organs and they like kept in touch with the people who have like her heart and her kidneys. And it's like this really cool bond of like, and it's like kids that got it sometimes. Like some parents are like, yo,
your daughter saved my kid's life and we make sure they know about your daughter every day. And it's like a really like beautiful way that like they feel they feel like I kept my daughter alive. They can listen to their daughter's heartbeat again. Yeah. Yeah, yeah,
yeah. I've seen videos of that. Like a father will listen to his kid's heartbeat inside the person where the heart is now. There's also a great fuck. There's a great video. I think I shared it with you guys where like this guy is out to dinner. He's an old man. He's out to dinner with his family and he's in like Baltimore or something like that. And they go,
where are you from? And he goes, oh, I'm from Ohio or something like that. I'm from Cleveland, Ohio, or whatever like that. And then the table next to him goes, oh, we're from Cleveland, Ohio. And he goes, he goes, yeah, you know, my son's blah, blah, blah, this, that, the other. I forget exactly what it was. And he goes, yeah, your heart's inside me. The guy just starts like breaking down. He can't believe it. Yeah. It was pretty powerful. Yeah. But yeah, that's also just like the profit structure where it's like,
and you can almost even rationalize it when it comes to like benefiting wealthy people. It's like this huge CEO of this massive company that's doing all this work for the world. Like Bezos is like improving our lives. If he needs a heart transplant, should it go to him or should it go to like some worker in his factory? You know what I mean? In terms of like societal good. That's what make the argument there. Right. That's the utilitarian mindset is like I could see how they justify it to themselves. And I can also see how like a hospital justifies it to themselves. Like when you're doing so much good,
when you're helping so many people, when you're saving so many lives, you're probably only chipping away slightly at all that like good equity that you've put into the world when you're going, we have to prioritize this thing and we have to charge a little bit more for this. It's almost like, yeah, I'm sure we all fall into this trap. Like you feel like you do so much for your significant other or something like that, right? That like when you fuck up and stuff, you're like, yeah, but I do have to. Well,
the shit. Yeah. I have that fight all the time. Right. Yeah, yeah, but I do so much. So shut up. So deal with it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But, but it is to that person, they're like, yo, this is fucked up. To the poor person that doesn't get the fucking heart. Yeah. They're like, yeah, I understand you saved these 30 people, but I'd like to fucking live too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Dude, maybe we got to have somebody on to like really break down the whole like break down how a hospital functions. Yeah, I would love that. I'm curious about that. Here's the kind of the, I guess, um,
both sides of it: is like if it was a socialized healthcare or whatever, yeah, there wouldn't be the profit structure, but they would still do organ donations. But then you would never question the mindset of, are they just doing this for profit or are they just doing this for or are they doing this to save lives? Because the CEO salary is capped,
the hospital can only make so much money. Yeah, but then the argument you hear from big capitalists is, yeah, but healthcare in those countries isn't as good, which goes to your point of, yeah, but since they're not motivated by profit, they don't do quite as good of a job because their salary. That's where you just bounce and you just go, yo, America's not doing that shit. I'm out. I'm going to fucking Mexico. They got this doctor that'll do it and I can just pay them. And then you're fucking over Mexicans that can't get the medical attention and shit like that. You're always going to find someone to take advantage of. Yeah, it's the tragedy of the commons. All right, guys,
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