Andrew Schulz and Akaash Singh dissect the Ahmaud Arbery killing, condemning the cover-up by men with law enforcement ties that mirrors systemic police brutality fears. They debate neighborhood policing efficacy, arguing legacy family connections and pension incentives drive corruption, while contrasting MLK's outreach with Malcolm X's self-reliance after the Tulsa massacre. Ultimately, they suggest Black survival requires navigating constant violence without relying on forgiveness, challenging narratives of victimhood versus personal agency. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
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Living With Fear and Low Pay00:14:53
It's the confirmation of your greatest fear.
Yeah.
Our greatest fear is, when I say R, I'm talking about the black community.
But no, but the greatest fear I imagine of the black community is that not only will you be gunned down in public, but the person that guns you down will have some connection to law enforcement and the law enforcement will cover it up in a certain way and then you'll never receive justice.
That's like the plot line for a movie or a TV show or a docu series, right?
This is not something that should happen in real life.
And it appears as if that's what's happened.
Yeah.
Fuck.
Shit sucks, man.
Yeah.
You don't, bro, that's not America.
That's not America as it's been sold to us.
But unfortunately, like as a black person, we have to just like go on every day.
It's still in our mind.
And he was jogging?
Yeah, we have to like just imagine that this shit isn't happening just so we can live.
Because imagine you just live in fear every single fucking day.
Yeah, yeah.
So it's like it's in our mind.
I know this can happen.
I know there could be a weird traffic stop where something just gets taken out of hand and boom.
You know, people were getting offended during like the World War III was trending when black people just had a bunch of black Twitter just had a bunch of funny memes about World War III.
And a lot of people were like, how can you make jokes about something like this?
Maybe it's like, yeah, man, we have to learn to cope.
We've just been having to learn to cope.
So if some shit pops off that could be crazy, we're going to make jokes about it.
At least now it's all of us in this danger together.
Yeah.
It is interesting.
You just have to like go on with your day about it.
Wild.
It's kind of like you hear about a shark attack at your local beach, you know, and you're like, now the chances of that happening to me are very small.
That being said, when you're in the water and you like, you see a little splash or you feel something rub up against your leg, you're like, yo, yo, yo, yo.
So you probably, I assume, constantly thinking, yo, this could happen.
It could be going down.
And then maybe it doesn't happen for six months.
You're like, all right, it's cool to be out there.
We're good.
Everything's fine.
I'm surfing.
I'm swimming again.
And then boom, all of a sudden, another shark attack.
And that's part of the reason why black people, sometimes when they encounter with cops, they're testy because we're on edge already.
And then we've seen all the other videos of getting shot by cops.
So it's like, oh, wait, wait, wait.
I'm interacting with a cop right now.
I could die.
That's like first thought that comes to your brain.
When you were a cop, were you still afraid of cops?
No, because it's like, now I'm part of the gang.
You have to go.
Because like once I just show them the badges just.
If you ever left your badge at home, would you be afraid of that?
And then what would you do to make sure that they would know you're on?
Like you've seen it.
When I've gotten pulled over, it's like, I'll have it open already on my lap.
So the moment they can peek into my window, they see the badge already.
And different behavior the second they see the badge?
Yes, absolutely.
Because they're probably on some level.
They're on edge too.
Yes.
They don't know what they're walking to.
And they've heard story.
Just as you're hearing all the stories of black people getting killed by the cops, they're hearing all the stories of cops getting killed by whoever.
Yeah, on a traffic stop.
At a traffic stop.
So they're walking to every traffic stop going, this could be.
You're on edge.
Yeah.
Two people on edge.
That's the rescue.
You know, why don't they do a fucking like town hall where they just have and no audience because the woo and all that kind of shit can sway you, but you just have like black people who've experienced, you know, fucked up interactions with the cops.
And you have some cops of all different races, by the way.
And you just have them talk and then offer some sort of, you know, why can't we have our community police in our community?
And then the cops go, listen, we would like that.
The problem is that not enough people are coming in and trying to be cops.
And we're getting a lot of people that come and try to be cops from these legacy families that are now living out in the suburbs.
Like, what if they just had this open conversation about all the fucking issues that we think exists?
And they gave actual reasons why it's difficult.
And they, you know, told certain stories.
Like, listen, we're just as scared as y'all.
Maybe CNN doesn't play it.
Maybe Fox News doesn't play it.
But we hear the stories in the precinct about us getting killed all the time too.
So we're on edge.
I would love to see both sides talk about it.
I think this is practice.
I could be wrong, but like, say, if you're a cop, if you live in Queens and become a cop, they start you in a place that you're not familiar with.
Why would they start you in a place you are?
I think they're afraid of corruption.
Because if you're cool with your homies, they're doing some shit is like, neighborhood policing is effective, though.
Isn't that just a...
No, but real quick, real quick, you know what else is corruption?
Just shooting the black people.
True.
Yeah.
So it's like, wouldn't you rather, I'd rather you not give a ticket to your homeboy than you just shoot some random dude.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think the cops would prefer that too.
And that's why some of the best guys, like when I was in law enforcement, I would get cool with, like I worked in the courts.
I would get cool with the prisoners.
Like I would know them on a first name basis so I don't speak to them like calling their number or just calling their last name like it was so informal.
It's like I would get cool with these guys.
So it's like now they're less on edge.
I'm less on edge because we're all like, yeah, yeah, yeah, we already know what we're here for, but we cool.
And it's like, it just makes for a better environment.
But the thing is, like, if you were born in Long Island and you just never been to the hood before and then they throw you in the hood, it's like, no matter how close you get to these people, this is not something you're used to.
So it's like they're always going to be like a little bit innate feeling of like, oh shit, I don't know.
I'm not comfortable in this environment.
Yeah.
So I agree with you.
They should police their own areas.
But as you said, one, it's probably not enough people from their own areas to work.
And then two, it's like you have the possibility of corruption.
Isn't neighborhood policing, though, like you would have them live there and then over time they get to know everybody, et cetera, and they become a part of the community that polices it as opposed to some guy driving in from fucking Poughkeepsie.
I would say that you have the right to live wherever you want to live as a cop.
You know what I mean?
Like I don't think they should force you to live in a community if you don't want to.
Like, you know, what if you become a cop because you're trying to get your family out of a certain neighborhood?
I'd rather you go to work there and then you police that neighbor because you're familiar with everybody.
But if you're trying to get your kids into a better school district or that kind of shit, you could afford a house in a suburbs, like go for it.
That's another thing is I think a lot of cops don't get paid that well.
And so you get, so there's no real incentive to be a cop.
Like potentially my life is on the line and I'm getting paid dog shit.
I don't, most smart people aren't going to want to be cops.
So you're going to get a lot of people who probably aren't super smart being like, all right, I'll be a cop.
And if you incentivize it more, you might weed out some of those people.
And then if you get paid a lot, I don't want to throw this job away on some dumb shit.
So if I'm getting paid six figures, let me fucking think this through before I act.
Yeah.
Yeah, the paying cops a lot or paying teachers a lot is always tricky because it could also attract people that aren't good for the job but just want the money.
I would take that loss.
Do you think?
To me, the cost is worth the loss.
I mean, I'm sure they have some sort of IQ test or whatever to be.
Apparently, if you're too smart, you got to be a detective.
Oh, really?
Because you'll get bored of being a cop.
Not sure how that works.
I know you have to test to become detectives.
Like you have to study for an actual test just to become a detective.
Yeah, you would know better than me.
That's just the thing I've heard throughout the years is if you're too smart as a cop, they actually make you a detective.
I think it's just people saying how they actually feel.
Like I felt like my brain was dying with what I was doing before.
Like I wasn't utilizing my brain in any capacity.
You were just sitting there.
I was like a glorified security guard for the most part.
Like I'm just like making sure nothing happens here, but I'm just like, hey, sit down, shut up, take your hat off, put your phone away, that type of shit.
And then every once in a while, you know, maybe prisoners got a little antsy and we have to like check them or whatever.
But I never felt like I was using my brain at all.
I was bored every single day at work.
And you probably cope with that.
Yeah, it was tough.
It was, I was doing this on the side.
I think I was always like had a side project of some sort, like always something to distract me or something to look forward to when I'm not here.
And kind of dumb cops are probably better for the department because they just listen to orders, they do what you tell them to do.
Yeah, I wouldn't call them dumb, but no, but like, no, like if you're a cop that like is like more willing to listen to directions, not to like think critically for yourself.
Some people enjoy that.
I'm just gonna do what they tell me to do.
You might make for a better cop in the eyes of the department.
Yeah, because like he's not gonna be going off being rugged.
But at least, at least if you're a cop, right, and you're like walking the streets, you have a beat or something like that.
You can go around.
You were literally in one fucking room all day.
Pretty much.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
It was rough.
But some people really, some people like liked it.
They enjoyed it.
Like they made the security of it.
So it's like part of the job was bringing prisoners from like where they're holding into the courtroom and shit like that.
So there's some guys known as runners.
So it's like they just enjoy bringing them to the courthouse.
And it's like they're good at that where that courtroom will be more productive than another courtroom because it takes that officer twice as long.
Did they like it because there was an element of danger?
Or like I would honestly, if you take danger, I think they kind of like moving.
I just don't want to be sitting.
Yeah, I'll go get the guy on them, huh?
Maybe that's part of it because there's guys that's like, yeah, and I like to do the stairs or whatever.
So it's like they're getting some exercise out of it.
Like you just have to find a way to make the job enjoyable.
Is there a power piece to it?
Some of the cops like power over someone else.
Like, yeah, I'm going to go get this guy.
And to that end, I would say.
And then those are the ones that are usually the fucked up ones.
What do you mean?
They want to flex that power.
Any chance they get.
Any chance they get sit down.
Yep.
Just talk down on them.
It's like, come on, though.
And those are the assholes you hate to work with because they're always getting to a fight and then you have to jump into the fight.
And I would also say those are probably the guys who are not as intelligent because they feel inferior their whole lives.
So suddenly they are in a position where like you got to listen to them and now they run with it.
So I think a smarter person who wouldn't feel the same level of like insecurity about having some power would be better.
Not that that would never happen, but it would happen less often.
Yeah, that makes sense.
And if you pay more money, you're more likely to get smart people, I think.
That's like, I'm not like a super heavy tax guy or whatever, but teachers, doctors, I mean, not doctors, teachers and cops, yeah, increase taxes, just pay them.
I'm fine with that.
Maybe the tricky thing, and look, I don't know, but maybe the tricky thing with like, increasing their pay is the um, what is that thing at?
Uh, their severance?
That's severance.
What's the thing?
Uh pension pension, yeah.
So maybe maybe it'd be, you know, possible to pay him way more money if they didn't have this massive pension that was guaranteed after putting 20 years in or something like that.
That's the thing I.
I think they deserve it because they're putting their lives on every single god.
I'm not saying they don't deserve no that, i'm just saying like, how do you pay them more?
Every state and probably city job has a pension attached to it.
So it's like, yo, some of these working it for the state of New Jersey, y'all don't need a pension.
I'm sorry.
Yeah, if it goes to cops, i'm willing to say, y'all don't need a pension.
Like if we want to keep the money the same and just shift it whatever, yeah.
But I also think weirdly, everybody says they're cool paying cops more.
But I think when the vote comes down to people like I don't want, but who is ready before the money gets wasted maybe, maybe it's like the, everybody says Hey, if we tax you three cents more or whatever, city comp controller, they kind of decide on how money gets allocated, and then right, yeah, and then like your budget could go up, but that don't mean it's actually gonna go into the thing is like I think cops and teachers get paid way different because there were cops I know that they were pulling in like heavy six figures,
but they're allowed to do overtime and time and a half and work holidays and shit.
How were they as cops generally?
Were they better or were they the same percentage?
Still hit a miss, still depending on your personality.
Suffolk County, oh, yeah, they get paid way more than New York City cops because you get paid based on the tax revenue of the place you're policing, right?
It's similar to schools, like there could be a public school in Beverly Hills that's fly because it's based on the taxes that are in Beverly Hills, right?
And the tax bracket's going to be crazy high.
So the Suffolk County cops, I think, start at some absurd salary.
And I think within a few years, you're going to be making 75 grand.
And I think that you're making six figures as a cop.
And keep in mind, if you're there, if you do, what, 20 years, you get full pension?
Yeah.
20 years, you could retire.
What does it say, Mark?
Suffolk County is $50,000 annually, increasing incrementally, and you can make $112,000 after a few years.
I mean, to break up keg parties, bruh.
Yeah.
Suffolk County is Long Island for anybody who's listening right now.
So you're breaking up keg parties.
You're going to, I think Suffolk might be the Hamptons.
You're literally going to rich people's houses and saying, hey, can you turn down the music a little bit?
Now, of course, there are going to be some gang shit out there in Long Island.
I'm not saying it's soft, but compared to work in East New York, different.
So now the poorest neighborhoods are going to have the worst paid cops.
Yep.
Yeah.
And low-key, you want to talk about corruption?
If you give me power and you don't pay me, I'm going to find a way to get the money.
That's the shitty thing.
It's like they say that about New Orleans got the most corrupt cops.
I think they're paying cops in New Orleans at one point like $250 a week.
You're not going to give someone a gun and the ability to tell people what to do and think that they're not going to get a little piece of something.
Yeah.
So it's like you're begging them to be corrupt.
I know one way that cops would make extra money is if you get a collar if you lock somebody up because you have to stay with that person.
So it's like you have to set up papers with that person.
You have to wait till they go into the courts and all that stuff.
So it's like that's incentive to lock somebody up.
So now you're just looking for any little thing.
Yeah.
I need some money.
My girl asked for a bracelet.
Boom.
So we're locking people up.
Come on.
We had we pregnant again.
I got to lock a lot of people up.
Yeah.
And lock somebody up at the end of your shift.
Right?
Because when your shift is over, you have to stay and do all the paperwork overtime.
Boom.
Overtime.
Yep.
Oh, that's right.
They wait to the end.
I remember I did this show called Bronx Warrants.
Yeah.
But you know, warrant cops.
Yeah.
So the warrant division is different.
You literally are hunting.
Yep.
You're just hunting motherfuckers.
And you go pick up some warrants.
And if you do it at the end of your shift, you get the overtime for it.
Yep.
So you wait to the end of your shift, go get some fucking coffee, hang out, and then bring them to the precinct at the end.
So you got to stay in the middle.
I think that would happen regardless of how you pay cops.
People are going to try to game the system and make more money.
But less incentivized if you pay them more.
And I don't, I think if you told rich communities, like, yo, Suffolk, we're going to actually spread this money all throughout New York.
I think they'd be like, nah, fuck that.
We work hard.
We whatever.
So I don't know necessarily what the solution is, but that's the easy solution: just make the money as opposed to this city pays this cop.
That's it.
This, all of it goes into the same pool.
And we pay cops the same, essentially.
But I don't know if you're going to get a lot of pushback.
I mean, if there's some crazy thing that happens in Suffolk County, they're going to call for backup, right?
They're going to say, hey, man, we need all precincts on deck.
Can you please help us out?
I don't think that's it.
No, it would only be them who handles it.
Really?
And then if it's like something more than that, then another like division, maybe feds come into it or the SWAT team or some shit like that.
But usually you can be completely isolated.
Yeah.
Supporting Community Over Cheap Options00:07:41
I don't know, bro.
The extra fucked up thing with the Ahmad Arbery case is that it wasn't done.
That's the guy who was gunned down in Georgia, by the way.
It was done.
Well, one, they weren't on-duty cops.
So like...
They weren't even cops.
They weren't cops.
I think one guy used to be a cop or he was off duty.
I'm not positive.
But they have a connection where they were employed by the police department.
Yeah.
But they weren't cops.
Like they were in plain clothes in a pickup truck.
The guy, like, when it's a cop altercation, like, the guy gets pulled over for like allegedly doing something wrong.
Yeah.
So there's a little bit more, like, as far as the blame, it's like a little more gray.
Whereas with this thing, it's just like just two regular racist-looking guys.
I don't know if they are racist, but like optically.
Pickup truck is not.
They look so racist.
Like they have like a beard and old and fat.
Oh, they were racist.
I mean, probably.
I mean, I'm sure.
I mean, they're looking at this black guy jogging, right?
That's really what we see in the video.
Yeah.
There's some black guy jogging and they're in the car and they're like, they usually don't run that slow.
And then they just start shooting them out of nowhere.
Like that, that has to be, you have to have some racial prejudice.
I think they suspected that someone broke into a house.
And then slowly jogged away from the house with enough.
Like two days earlier.
And they were like, oh, I think that was the guy.
Yeah, but he's not like a serial killer who like comes back to the scene of the crime and like watches people collect evidence.
Like if you get away with some shit two days ago.
You saw a black person and it's like, oh, it must have been the guy.
Yeah, exactly.
That's it, man.
It's sad.
That shit happens.
But like, that's why I found it fascinating.
Oh, I'm sorry, because you're not.
But I found it fascinating.
The dude that you said that was on Rogan, that he goes and speaks to the KKK guys.
Yeah.
Converts them.
Like, Daryl Davis.
I watched it.
I still didn't finish it, but it's like to be able to just speak to a person that you know might hate you and then get them to change their view.
Like that's if that's if we did that to this whole country, it would change the country.
But it's tough because it puts the obligation for change and like the impetus on change on the oppressed person.
On the victim.
Literally like, yo, you got raped and so now you got to go tell your rapers you forgive them.
That's true.
Because it's really not up to black people to convince white people not to hate black people.
Yeah.
Do you know what I mean?
Like if you're the kid who is abandoned by their father, it's not up to you to go to your father, right?
And go, hey, I didn't mean to make this person.
Sorry, sorry.
I mean, in the middle of a racist, but see what I'm saying?
Like, if you're abandoned by your father, whatever it is, and it's not up to you to go to your father and be like, hey, I forgive you for doing that thing.
You didn't know better or this, that, the other, right?
It's, it should be on your father.
Now, maybe the more effective way to get it done is to be the kid who goes and does it, but it's not your job to do it.
It's not your job.
What I would say to that kid is you don't forgive him for him.
You forgive him for you.
And yes, this is the Jesus way of looking at it.
And it's fucked up.
You got to do this, but you're not doing this for him.
I'll try to keep that in mind.
You're doing this for you.
That's what they always say about forgiveness.
So for Daryl Davis, he's doing that for him and his people.
He's not doing it for the white people.
He doesn't think he's doing them a favor.
Now, should he have to?
No, absolutely not.
White people should just not fucking shoot black before jogging.
I get that.
But if you can find the space mentally and emotionally to be like, no, I'm not doing this for them.
I'm going to reach them for me and my people.
So we can all exist better in this world.
Then that's how you can do it.
Because you can't ask a hateful person to come meet you halfway.
As fucked up as it is, you have to go to them and you have to be the even bigger, bigger, bigger person.
And that's why what he does is extra fucking impressive to me because he's able to do that.
And I don't think most, I don't know if I am.
I would be if I was black.
Let's say we knew that that was the solution, right?
I mean, it makes perfect sense.
Yeah.
Let's say we knew that was the solution, right?
How the fuck as a politician do you explain that to black people?
Bro, you cannot.
Imagine going up there and going, hey guys, you know how you've been historically oppressed and you know how there's white people that hate you?
Here's why we're going to fix it.
And you're like, you're going to tell them to stop hating us, right?
And maybe apologize for the fuck shit.
No, no, no, no.
You gonna say, I'm sorry for what?
Well, for them hey, obviously.
You black guys, you know what, end racism?
Just be nice to white people.
Just go be really nice to them.
I know they're gonna say some wild shit, but be really nice and see what happens.
You mean we should go to the people that are just shooting us randomly on the street?
Yeah.
Even when we're jogging away from them, they shoot us.
You want us to jog towards them?
Yeah, man, it's tough, man.
Yo, to that point, though, I've always been a Malcolm guy, but that's where you see when you grow up, oh, what Martin did is going to reach more people than what Malcolm did.
That's interesting.
I've always been a Martin guy.
Well, the shows and the women you fucked.
Reparations, man.
Hey, man.
Listen, nah, but the Martin approach is the more mature reach people on a broad level approach.
I like that Malcolm was like, nah, we'll just do our own thing.
I love that mentality.
It's very Andrew Schultz YouTube, actually.
But I understand if you're trying to really connect, the Martin shit is super hard, but like that's going to reach a lot of people.
You kind of need both, to be honest.
You need the ability to do shit by yourself in order to reconnect.
It's interesting.
Right?
Like, once you have your own thing, this is horrible to make a parallel with YouTube, but like, once you have your own thing that we built, now all of a sudden, these companies are coming to us and going, hey, you want to do some stuff?
We'd like to do it.
And you're like, yeah, I'd like to reintegrate, but I don't have to.
I don't need y'all for nothing.
But yeah, why not?
Maybe we could do some business together.
The thing where black people are extra even like about that is like they tried Black Wall Street and then it got burned down.
So when we try to do our own thing, I'll fuck it up again.
Stop cooking Chitlins later at night.
Why are you cooking Chitlins in?
Why are you cooking Chitlins in the fucking soccer?
You gotta everything else.
You're frying Wall Street.
Why are you not frying Wall Street?
Yeah, we gotta figure out what Black Wall Street was, bro.
Was it literally like you had Wall Street?
You should red pill your ass and find out about this.
Because I was looking into it a little bit.
I was looking into it a little bit and I was talking to this guy from Oklahoma.
I believe it was in Oklahoma, right?
Yes?
I don't know much until I know it's in Tulsa, Oklahoma, right?
So, and he was making, he was like, yeah, they teach us all the history of Black Wall Street and everything here.
He goes, there was a problem.
We rebuilt it after it was burned down.
This was what this guy said.
Historically, we rebuilt it after it burned down.
But the problem was when they desegregated these cities, you had a lot of black people that ended up spending money at the white businesses.
So instead of continuing to build up the black grocery store, they went to the white grocery store because maybe the white grocery store had access to more things that they couldn't get at the black grocery store because obviously motherfuckers are racist and not selling shit to the black grocery store.
But when you created, I guess you would say, a like more free market economy, the blacks went to those white businesses that were now desegregated and then they stopped supporting the black businesses.
That's what he told me.
Black kid who grew up in, now, I don't know if there's, I don't know how much truth goes on there, but it is kind of interesting to look at desegregation.
Like in a way, it can affect the amount that you support your community when there's another product out there that's actually cheaper than the one in your community.
To that point, that's why you need a Malcolm Anna Martin.
Yeah.
You need Malcolm to go, I don't care if it's cheaper.
We're spending this shit here because look what we built.
It's not a matter of like desegregation or integration.
It's a matter of like supporting the people that you want to support, I guess.
French Freedom vs Social Justice00:01:55
You know what I mean?
Like you can be integrated fully into society, but like still choose to support black businesses and things like that.
Right.
Right.
You can have both.
Right, right.
Yeah.
That's one.
Listen, I'm not the guy that envies white people or whatever, but that is one thing I envy is you guys have a lot more freedom in that sense of like, I'm just going to support what's the best.
We always have a thing where it's like, I have to support the best of my people.
I don't support any of my people.
I don't consider Mark my people.
What is Mark is French?
Mark is French or Canadian.
But I don't support neither.
What are you, actually?
I thought you're French.
You are French.
I was born in France.
That makes you French.
Don't.
He don't got no French blood.
If you're born there, you don't.
His mom just popped in France.
That's it.
Yeah.
Wait, I thought you weren't even like living.
Gagnon is French.
No, no, no.
We were living there.
Yeah, I thought your last name was French.
It was French-Canadian.
Like Quebecois?
La Québecois.
You fucking almost out of here.
I can't respect no Quebecois.
Get out of here.
How are you gayer than France?
What?
How you gayer than regular France?
Yeah, they are kind of gay.
Send you the fucking splenda of France.
Get the fuck out of here.
Bro, I don't respect that shit.
The splenda.
Fucking fucking neutra, sweet ass French.
Get yourself a fish.
Generic ass France.
Fuck out of here, sugar, alcohol, French.
Fuck you.
You didn't have ratatoul.
You had fucking cooking mouse.
Don't have bagged, you got breadsticks.
No, you got something else that rons and bag heads.
Bro, is that what we should call lesbians?
Yo, what's up?
This is Akash.
That was a preview of our Patreon episode.
If you want the full thing, go to www.patreon.com/slash flagrantru.
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