Andrew Schulz and Akaash Singh dissect the NFL's Rooney Rule, debating its efficacy in securing head coaching roles for Black candidates like Eric Bieniemy amidst a landscape where only three exist despite an 11% population share. They contrast this with the league's meritocratic failures regarding Antonio Brown while critiquing "social justice" comedians as "comedy ISIS" who prioritize agendas over laughter, ultimately questioning whether true comedy can survive modern political correctness. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: nvidia/parakeet-tdt-0.6b-v2, sat-12l-sm, and large-v3-turbo
|
Time
Text
The Rooney Rule Interview00:12:24
You got playoff football, obviously.
We have other kind of big news.
What was the big news?
A bunch of new coaches.
Brady lost.
Oh, yeah.
Why is everybody freaking out about this Rooney rule?
Like, you got to hire a black, you got to like interview people.
Well, it's not about, yeah, yeah.
So a lot of times.
Come on, explain this to me.
The rule sounds like horseshit.
The rule was implemented because a lot of black coaches weren't getting any coaching opportunities.
It was implemented by, I guess, the Rooney family, which won the Steelers, which, you know, ended up finding Mike Tomlin, ended up finding a lot of, you know, great coaches.
And the idea was: okay, maybe you already have your guy in mind, but this guy could still come in and impress you.
And then somebody else who interviewed him goes to another team and then remembers, oh, I interviewed Mike Tomlin.
He was happened a lot.
Yeah.
Like a lot of times you see these names.
Just the fact that names are being thrown around around this time, it's a lot of times almost like a job interview, where even if I don't get the Giants job or the Browns job, whatever, like just being thrown in that name, like if you go back and talk to each other, they're like, hey, this kid was really impressive.
We already wanted to go with him, but he was really good.
You should check him out.
Okay, go on.
But there were three blackhead coaches when it was implemented in 99 or whatever the fuck year it was.
And there are still three blackhead coaches right now.
And there is, I don't think it's racism or whatever, but it is crazy.
Like Eric Biennemi is the offensive coordinator of the Chiefs.
How many coaches are there in the teams are there?
32.
So what is the black population in America?
11%.
What is the question?
But it's not just head coaching, though.
Hold on, hold on.
But the black population in America is 11%.
And what is the population?
What is the percentage of the population?
So it's on it.
We're doing the right thing.
But it's not just head coaching, though.
It's about getting, there's dozens of coaching jobs per team.
So even if you're not a head coach, like getting a coordinator job, getting a special team job, wide receiver coach job, whatever the fuck it is.
It's about getting black coaches and giving them opportunities that they most likely wouldn't have had if it wasn't for this rule.
And you're right.
There's still only three coaches, but there's a lot more black faces in, you know, but people are basically saying the Rooney rule isn't doing anything if it hasn't actually changed the number of blackhead coaches.
It doesn't need to, but it's their percentage of the league that they're doing.
I get if you're 70% of a league's players, but only 10% of the coaches, there's 70%.
How many white people, what percentage of white people are there in the country?
60.
70%, let's say?
Yeah.
What percentage of white people play in the NBA?
20, 10, whatever.
Less?
Sure.
Do we need the white person rule?
No, but you can make it easy.
That's definitely not the way people will look at it, though.
I mean, the way they're looking at it is, you know, a lot of times you need to make sure that.
Why does diversity only work one direction?
It does weird.
It's not just.
I don't listen.
I don't.
Like, why?
I don't understand.
I don't think I'm the guy who champions diversity for the sake of diversity.
That's not me.
But I can understand how basketball and sports playing is so easily a meritocracy.
Like, I have tryouts.
All of you can come.
Any white guy who's aging can get him in the door, come in the door.
And Adam Thielen, the receiver for the Vikings.
He was a guy that nobody gave a fuck about.
And he just proved himself and proved himself and proved himself.
Good, done.
That's fine.
Coaching is like, there's only 32 opportunities.
There are no auditions.
There are no tryouts.
You come to an interview.
And the one, like, the example I would use is say, oh, something's a little not racist, but we could figure out something is Eric Biennemy, offensive coordinator of the Chiefs, who have a crazy offense.
Andy Reid is the head coach, but he has given this guy the seal of approval.
This guy's going to be a great fucking coach.
And the people who are getting jobs over him, I'm just like, really?
Yeah.
Like, the Giants interviewed him, and I guess the guy they hired was the Giants coach.
Yeah, they interviewed him.
Cowboys didn't.
The Cowboys interviewed Marvin Lewis, who sucks dicks.
He's a warp.
Marvin Lewis.
Bengals.
To meet the Rooney rule.
And then their next interview, they hired that coach.
Now, question: Let's go with the Giants.
So, the Giants interviewed Bename, and then they ended up hiring the wide receiver coach.
Well, technically, he was a special teams coach.
He's only the wide receiver coach this year.
Well, that means the wide receiver coach.
He could end up being good.
Special teams coach is better for a head coach.
Yeah, that's the thing.
But still, he was the wide receiver coach of special teams both.
Right, right, right.
So, how many rings have the Chiefs won in the last decade?
Zero.
How many rings have the Patriots won?
At the same time, these guys have had head coaching experience.
How many good coaches have come out from under Bill Belichick?
Yeah.
Bill Belichick is 14 and 13 against the people that he has had on his, that he has had on his roster or past players or being good.
In other words, they know how to coach and they know how to coach against Bill Belichick.
And if Bill Belichick is the gold standard of coaching and they're beating, and they are 50-50 against him, they must be doing something right.
That's a stat that's not indicative of me being a good coach.
Oh, I'm pretty good against this one coach.
None of these guys who happen to be the best.
Sure, but I can beat it.
Good against the best.
If I beat, if I'm the 100th player in the world, but somehow I've beaten Roger Federer four out of seven times, that doesn't make me 100 best player in the world.
Sure, but did Mike Vrabe, did Mike Vrabel out-coach Belichick?
He might be a good coach.
But did he out-coach him in this last game?
Yeah.
But again, you're taking a very small sample size.
Whereas for the most part, none of these coaches pan out.
None of them last.
I can't even think of most of the names.
Vrabel's the one where we're like, oh, maybe this guy will be good.
And Patricia maybe will be good, but they were still the third worst.
Flores was a coach for the Patriots.
Flores could be good.
The Offens were terrible, and they won more games than they had any business winning when they were allegedly supposed to be tanking.
So, like, he's, you know, like, people, it's weird when people say, like, oh, well, you know, Belichick's disciples haven't really coached that well when Belichick is still winning titles.
So it's like, just because you can't beat this guy in the big game, doesn't mean like.
No, no, no.
They don't.
They don't.
Like, I can't think of Bill Belichick guys who make the playoffs consistently.
Right.
Like, there's no coach that came out from under Bill Belichick because the idea is this guy does everything.
Right.
Andy Reid, Mike McCarthy, the Cowboys coach, who I don't think is as good as everybody else, but he gets a lot of respect.
I'm pretty sure he's an Andy Reid guy.
They have the coaching trees.
Right.
Like, I coached under this guy, and I got a job.
Bill Parcells, amazing coaching tree.
Sean Payton, Bill Belichick, whoever the fuck.
Andy Reid, good coaching tree.
Eric Banami's under him.
Bill Belichick's coaching tree, for the most part, as of now, hasn't panned out.
The best we've done is Mike Vrabel so far.
So just because he coached under Bill Belichick doesn't mean he's going to be a good coach.
Like this guy's the head coach of the Bengals.
They went 1-15, and he was under McVay, and that's why he got the job.
But that doesn't make you a good person.
That's usually what happens, though.
For most football teams, most football programs, if you're successful, they want to pluck everybody from your staff.
Like the same guy, what was the guy who coached?
I'm saying that makes sense.
It makes sense to me.
You want someone from a winning pedigree.
Right.
So I just don't, I don't knock consistently.
No, I don't think people are knocking the Giants for hiring Joe Judge.
I don't think they were at all.
I just think the fact that they picked him so quickly without, I guess, doing due diligence and doing what the Rooney rule was.
No, the Giants did.
I think the overall point is.
Aren't the Giants Rooney?
No, that's the Steelers.
That's the Merritt family.
Yeah, but the Mara and the Rooney family are related.
They might be related.
Are they?
Yes.
Oh, shit.
I don't think the Giants did anything wrong.
I think they interviewed.
Yeah, no, I don't think they did anything.
I think the problem is like the bullshit interview, like the Cowboys.
Marvin Lewis is a bullshit interview just to meet the rule.
Like, at least take it seriously.
Right.
That's, I think, the point.
I don't have a problem with the rule because I think it could be beneficial.
But if you're going to be like, hey, just get a fucking black guy in here.
Let's give him a bullshit interview.
I mean, it makes way more sense if you get someone you were potentially interested in because it only helps your team.
My biggest issue with the criticism of the Rooney rule is it assumes that people are more racist than they are curious interested in winning.
And if we know anything about the NFL is they will look past so many character flaws for the sake of winning.
You beat your wife, you kick her in a fucking hotel, you'll be on a team in fucking three months.
Okay.
If you shoot up a straight-hand.
No, no, man.
I mean, that was definitely the case a couple years ago.
I reckon, he played this year or no?
He did.
Okay.
But Antonio Brown didn't.
He had a tryout.
He didn't play.
Antonio Brown did play this year.
He played one game.
And then he had to work out with the Sams a couple weeks ago.
And then he was an asshole.
But that's my point, though.
They won't overlook everything.
But they were willing to overlook a rape accusation.
His point is like the NFL is much more of a meritocracy than people are realizing.
I had this debate with Brian all the time where I think on some level, race could play into it in a way you don't realize.
Race plays a part of everything.
Don't get me wrong.
Yeah, absolutely.
And racism is in everything and it plays a part in everything.
I'm not discrediting that at all.
What I'm saying is people's desire to win will overwhelm their feelings about the color of a coach's skin.
If they truly believe that a coach can help them be victorious, they will overlook their own racism to hire him just like they will overlook a player's abuse of his wife so that they can get that Super Bowl.
So I don't think it's intrinsically tied into racism.
And I think the Rooney rule, what it's supposed to do is it's supposed to check implicit bias or unconscious bias, right?
Which are you might not think a black guy is going to be a good coach, but we're going to put him in front of you anyway.
Yes.
And then he could potentially win you over.
And then because you're so obsessed with winning, you'll put aside your views of black guys as coaches so that you can get that win.
So that's why I like the Rooney rule.
I like it too.
For that reason.
Yeah, I like the rule too.
My thing is, I don't know if I think the rule is reactionary at first.
I feel like if there wasn't something in place before, and I'm going to mess up details because I don't know the specifics of it, but there was something going on before the rule was implemented where motherfuckers wasn't getting calls at all, wasn't even getting talked to as far as being head coaches.
So I think they were overcompensating for all the shit that they missed out on.
Well, that can't be the case because if the same amount of coaches existed back then and they exist now, then the same amount of calls must have been going on.
Well, of course, but I'm saying like it's the same way when Kaepernick first started kneeling down, right?
And they felt like, well, we have these demands and some of the demands are like, well, we want money donated to this, this, that, and the third.
Looking with no biased specs on everything, the NFL has put in more, you know, programs to benefit inner city, you know, relations and race relations since Kaepernick was kneeling.
Right.
Now, because I don't know the specific details of what led to the Rooney rule, I can only assume that also happened when it came to blackhead coaches and black people in coaching positions.
My only issue is just do it better.
And there's a story out there that the Cowboys actually wanted to hire Marvin Lewis, and maybe they're just that fucking stupid that you want a guy who didn't win a playoff game in nine years.
But like Eric Bienneme, the offense is creative.
The head coach, who everybody says is brilliant, says this is a fucking guy.
He's going to be great.
He's had coaches underneath him that have done very well.
Just interview that guy.
Like if you're going to give Marvin Lewis an interview, the Giants also, I think they interviewed Biennemy too, but their first interview was the Cowboys defensive backs coach, Chris Brichard, who's a black guy.
The secondary sucked dick all year.
Don't give that guy a look just because of a Rooney rule.
That's actually like more racist to me to give a shitty black guy an interview just to check a box than it is to say, oh, here's a qualified black guy.
We should give him a serious look.
I agree.
Because McCarthy, apparently, for the Cowboys coach, apparently fucking destroyed his interview.
Was incredible, apparently.
Still, give this other guy who got all checks, all the boxes, give him the chance.
And to be fair, I think you're right in the sense that people may have overreacted in the first couple of weeks because the hot do.
Yeah, the hot coordinator is Robert Sala or whatever, the defensive coordinator for the 49ers.
And clearly, they're still playing.
So they're not going to give permission for you to talk to a guy.
No, you should get permission.
I mean, I'm certain like certain teams didn't want to give permission so far.
I don't think he got calls either.
Checking Boxes vs Qualifications00:06:58
That's another one.
Because I remember when the Cowboys were actually good, which is 30 years ago or whatever.
Nor Turner, all these defensive coordinates.
I didn't know how any of it worked.
I'm just watching football at the time.
But I remember the Cowboys were going to the Super Bowl, and on the way, the defensive coordinator and offensive coordinator got head coaching interviews.
So it's like, oh, wow, I guess that's a thing that can happen.
And then that was like an adult lesson for me as a kid.
Oh, you're always allowed to go get a better job.
Right.
If your employer gives a fuck about you.
So I think the fact that he didn't get calls, I don't know if he'll be good, but you got to see what the fuck.
I mean, the Niners' defense.
Yeah, the Niners' defense are.
I don't know how much credit you want to give him, but you can give him a call, especially if there's a rule in place for this.
I don't have a problem with a rule.
I think James Harrison went on and started this with like...
Who was Steve Dean?
Five.
He went for it.
And then he went for it right after, what is it, Rivera?
What's his name?
Ron Rivera is Joe Judge.
It was right after Joe Judge.
No, no, but Ron Rivera got the head coaching job with the Redskins.
Yeah.
Is he black?
No.
I think he's half black or something.
He's Cuban or some shit.
He's like last year.
He's a man of color.
Whatever.
So it's not like, it's not like men of color aren't getting...
This is why, this is where I call the bullshit on the diversity thing, right?
Diversity is like a, uh, is it, and, and don't get me wrong, I actually agree with the strategy.
The game of life is acquire resources.
That's the game of life.
And you require them at all costs, right?
We found a cool term where black people and other minorities who haven't been in this situation where they could acquire resources have found a way to leverage the thing that held them down and actually use it in a way to acquire resources, right?
Like you must be diverse because diversity is good.
Now, as far as I'm concerned.
It's actually impressive to flip leverage like that.
It's amazing.
It's a brilliant tool.
And if I, and I would say to all my black friends or any minority friends, use it so you can acquire resources.
Get it.
The game is acquire resources.
And when you have the resources, the game is keep them.
And when you don't have them, the game is get them.
That's just how the shit goes, right?
So it's why Republicans that are rich want to keep their money and Democrats that are poor want to get their money, get money, right?
Right.
It's just, we should have more taxes so we can get some money.
Okay.
So I think it's a great go for it.
It's a good strategy.
You have one life.
Try to get it.
But when we go, diversity is important and representation is important.
The reason I can't take it seriously is because I know it's fucking bullshit.
You know what you're doing.
I know it.
I see through it, right?
So it's like, like any, all like the black athletes are like, we need representation.
They're never saying we need Indians.
They're never saying we need Asians.
Like, you know, Tyler Perry is like.
Some do, but that never goes to the forefront.
I've never had a black person legitimately give a fuck about anything about Indians.
And then they'll go, well, we need to work on us first before we do it.
And then so you just go, wait a minute, so it's okay to just care about your race?
Well, my people back home, poor as fuck.
As fuck.
What I'm saying is this.
What I'm saying is this.
I'm saying use it, but you're not fooling me.
And I think a lot of people are drinking the Kool-Aid and they actually believe it because they're not really thinking about the game and what's going on.
I just see the game.
So I'm like, use it.
Play the game.
Get your money, bro.
Get your fucking money anyway you can.
Never once in my life have I ever thought about diversity.
Will you look at this room?
Look at this room.
Never once in my life have I hired anybody for diversity.
Never once in a life I had a friend for diversity.
We got a Mexican doing the fucking Ecuador.
But think about what we have going.
It's not like we have the white guy doing the tech shit like the Joe Budden podcast.
You know what I mean?
We got a Nicaraguan doing the tech shit.
We never try to check boxes.
A black would do it.
An Indian.
But it's not fair to assume that's what they do, too, either.
It's not fair to assume, oh, we only got the white guy to do the tech for our podcast because he's the white guy.
No, it's fair to assume a lot of people do it.
We don't need a name specifically.
All the time.
We know all the time people who got the white people in the back end doing all the shit.
And actually, sometimes it's a corporate mandate to have minority hires.
Right.
And we as minorities love it because what an amazing leverage point.
Like how you flip the exact thing that held you down and make it bring you up.
Like that's a genius.
The thing is, you're a critical thinker.
You're a critical thinker and you understand why people would do that.
That makes sense.
A lot of motherfuckers don't do that for that reason, though.
Wait, wait, wait, say that again.
A lot of people don't do that for that reason.
What do you think?
So when you're talking about, okay, well, I'm going to use the fact that I'm black.
I'll just use me as an example.
Yeah, yeah.
I'm going to use the fact that I'm black to get a lot of corporate opportunities with people because I know they need people of color.
Right.
I'm not doing that because like I don't ever feel like I deserve an opportunity over somebody who's been doing this for years.
But I'm not going to turn it down.
But at the same time, at the same time, I do this shit because I want to do it.
I'm not using my diversity as leverage.
You not, but you won't turn it down.
So for example, if ESPN goes, hey, man, we would love to hire you.
And then you found out through the grapevine, it's like they want to increase the diversity that they have over at ESPN.
ESPN does a good job of diversity, I think.
But it's like, and you heard that's what, that was the impetus of looking for you.
You were rooney ruled into the ESPN, right?
You're right.
You wouldn't say no.
But here's my thing.
A lot of times for those companies, they know it benefits them long term as well.
It benefits themselves long term as well.
Why does it benefit them?
Because they need diversity also.
Why?
Because they want to get more people.
They want to acquire assets, just like you said.
If you're only diversity doesn't mean that more people are going to watch.
Like nobody watches the show.
It does.
If you're watching the other day.
Andrew, I'm going to be honest with you.
If we're doing a show and as cultured as you are, you're talking about Indian shit.
And if you don't have an Indian guy to check you about certain shit, it wouldn't be as successful.
Son.
If we had a black guy, if you're talking about the best.
The only white podcast in the world is Joe Rogan and a white assistant.
But that's because Joe Rogan has a great fucking show.
He's talking to a lot of great shit.
Whenever I'm talking to people in the crowd, Akasha ain't there to co-sign it.
I'm not saying he's not a single person.
I'm talking to people right in the crowd and then they're doing it.
It's different when they know that you're authentic.
There's a different thing when people know that you're coming from the right place.
Right.
So it's like, I can talk to people truthfully.
Even this conversation, most people couldn't.
Most white people couldn't say things I'm saying.
Of course not.
But they understand.
This is the Chappelle show.
I wanted to talk about.
Yeah, we'll get to it, but we'll get to it.
But it's like most of because they don't trust that that person is speaking to them honestly.
If you want someone to speak to you honestly, you have to accept honesty.
Yes.
Do you know what I mean?
I know a lot of white people, when they speak to minorities, they're speaking to them in a way that they feel will make them comfortable.
When you get to know me, you start to realize, oh, he's treating me just like another person.
He's not speaking me through a black filter or an Indian filter or a Nicaraguan filter or a Puerto Rican black filter.
Authenticity Over Manipulation00:04:41
Right?
But it takes second to get there.
I bet there are people listening to this podcast right now when they first heard me maybe on Brilliant Ids.
They're like, I don't like this motherfucker.
Oh, yeah.
I've had to do it all the time.
Oh, wait a minute.
He's actually talking to me regular.
Yeah.
You know what I'm saying?
So I'm not saying that this thing is easy to get to, but when you get to, you actually get truth from somebody, you really trust it and you believe it because truth is rare.
All I'm saying is when it comes to the diversity thing, milk it.
Use it.
Use it to get to the top.
Use it to get some fucking stake in this world.
Use it to get your fucking resources and then pull up anybody you want to pull up from the ground.
For me, the people I pulled up, it's never been about your race.
It's always been about your skill.
Right.
But I'm in the position to do that because I've had stuff.
But if you have nothing, if it's diversity that helps you get up, then great.
If it's not diversity, if it's just, I don't know, building your own Black Wall Street, whatever, use that.
Whatever it is, the game is get the resources and then help those people you believe in.
Our issue with the flipping the leverage is we just seek through it.
I just see through it.
And I'm not saying there's times where I argue that I think race is a factor.
And I think in head coaching, race might be a factor.
Sure.
Big factor.
But like James Harrison was the one I saw talking about it.
And I like James Harrison, but he's picking on Matt Ruhl, who's the Carolina Panthers new head coach, got a huge contract, and he goes at his overall record.
His overall record as a coach is 95 and 85 or whatever.
It was first three years in Baylor was 18.
What he neglects to leave out.
What he neglects to mention, I thought Matt Rule, I think he's going to be great.
I might be wrong.
I think he's going to be fucked up.
That's who you wanted.
That's who I wanted for the Cowboys.
And this is why I particularly noticed it.
He took over Baylor after the head coach of Baylor just let like five people rape women and then covered it up.
That program was toxic.
Nobody wanted to go there.
And even if they were, if they had a name, they're not getting any 5A athletes.
So his first year, he went 1-11.
Everybody left.
Second year, he went 6-10.
Third year, this small ass school that gets no 5A recruits went 12-2, lost to Oklahoma twice by one score.
That's fucking impressive.
But if you want to manipulate things and make it a racial issue, you can say his overall record is barely above average.
And you took out all context just so people can, who are more easily manipulated will be like, yeah, what the fuck?
And that's the problem sometimes with a narrative is that when people don't see it as marketing and they drink the Kool-Aid, they'll start justifying it any way they can.
Like you look at these stupid ass blogs like Jezebel and shit.
The editor of the blog just goes into the office and goes, Ryan Phillippe's sexist.
Prove it.
Right?
They start with this how fucked up it is.
And if you want to go into any situation, you want to go, this is racism, prove it.
You will find it because there is racism or race at bare minimum race in every single thing in our lives.
It is, and it's actually natural to our brains.
Yeah.
We filtered the world.
You have to.
For survival.
So especially in the world.
So when we say it's not race, it doesn't mean that race doesn't play a part because it is.
What we're saying is how many parts race is it versus how many parts situation, how many parts wins.
You know what I'm saying?
Like if this cocktail, how much of it is racism?
And we think that I think that James Harrison, I think you think, obviously James Harrison is overestimating the amount of parts in the cocktail that are just raw racism from the Carolina Panthers, who just had a black head coach or a head coach of color.
Yeah.
Who stayed for nine years, Rivera, who stayed for nine years and made the playoffs in three of them.
That's not a good percentage.
They got a black quarterback that they gave every chance to, who I love.
They still might give him another chance.
Yeah, I think he's going to start when they come back.
But here's the thing.
I'm glad we're having this conversation.
Black quarterback.
Sorry, real quick.
Black quarterback, they took number one overall.
They had the number one overall.
The motherfucker was undeniable coming out of coach.
And this is after this is after Juco.
This is after the arrest shit.
They denied Lamar Jackson.
You're right.
And Cam Newton had more character flags than Lamar Jackson.
You're right, but Cam won a national title and a Heisman.
Nobody's a bigger fan than Cam Newton, or at least was.
I mean, he's kind of, you know, has helped.
We'll see if he's helping.
I was his number one coaching.
Nobody's been a bigger fan than us on this show.
But it is what it is.
They could have easily not taken him number one.
But you do remember there was a time where the same way some people, I'm not saying all people, and the reason why the Rooney rule was put in, the same way people look at head coaches were the same way people looked at black quarterbacks for a while.
They're just like, you know, they just don't have the mental capacity.
Yada, yada, yada.
Defending Comedy Truth00:06:18
You're a critical thinker, so you don't think like that.
I understand where you're coming from.
Doesn't mean you are the way.
If you thought, if everybody thought like you, you wouldn't be unique and extremely unique.
Right, right.
100%.
Everybody else that looks at this rule and sees it and tries to use it to either defend why they don't pick a certain coach of color doesn't think the way you think.
Doesn't think the way you think.
Yeah.
A lot of times, the same way they looked at quarterbacks is the same way they look at some coaches.
But at the end of the day, like I was saying before, I'm really glad we're having this conversation because I watched the Chappelle Mark Twain.
Did you see his speech?
I didn't see his, but Niels was really funny.
I need to know Niels.
Neil's is like beautiful.
Chappelle is beautiful.
How long is it?
He defends stand-up.
It's six minutes.
We can't watch it here.
I think it'd be too long to watch now.
PBS is public broadcasting.
No, no, meaning like that.
Oh, gotcha.
But he said something that we're more interesting than Dave.
Bro, they found us more interesting than Eddie Murphy.
Yeah, I'm saying it.
That is true.
We tried to listen to.
I didn't want another Eddie Murphy moment.
If you want to take a baby bladder break and watch, I'm with it.
Go for it.
But he said something that was so poignant and why I think this show is so important is he was talking about how he knows the reason why stand-up is such an American form of art.
Like it's so important.
It's probably one of the most American form of art because you have to tell the truth.
If you're good at it, if you do it right, you have to tell the truth.
And people that try to stop that, like I said, taking away any other agenda that you have, you're stopping truth tellers.
Period.
That's what you're doing.
Chappelle said, he says something about having conversations with racist comics all the time.
And he's saying something.
And he's like, yeah, he's killing in there.
He's like, nah, that nigga means that shit.
Like, he really is fucking racist.
But he says...
He'll see the comic on stage, Nick DePaul, and he'll be like, oh, he means that.
Yeah.
And then he's a thing.
He's a Nick DePaulo.
I mean, that's who it is.
That's who it is.
Probably.
But he'll see us as in like, you know, the general public argue.
Yeah.
And we just watch.
Y'all just watch as comics.
Whereas comics have this thing where they can actually talk and actually hear people.
And because there's such, they respect the art of stand-up comedy so much, they can respect the way that you dress up your racism that is digestible for people.
You know what I mean?
Like, and he said this before where he feels like he's more comic than black man sometimes because when Kramer was screaming the N-word, N-word, he was like, Damn, Kramer's a tough set hanging there.
You know what I'm saying?
So I thought it was really dope because I'm not a stand-up comic, but I feel like I'm in the world of stand-up comics.
And I could totally understand why I can look up to a guy like Dave Chappelle and idolize him, even though I've never done a set in my life, just because the way he fights for truth and comedy and the way people are just, he's just a great thinker.
And I think you said this before, where he's just one of the, not even just one of the great stand-up comedy comedians of all time, just great speakers.
He's one of the greatest public speakers ever.
Watch his speech if you get a chance.
He defends comedy, speaks on behalf of comedy.
It's beautiful.
And it's like needed.
Essentially, what we're doing is just, he's doing it on like the Ricky Gervais thing.
Right guy, right?
Messenger message platform.
That's really what it comes down.
It's fucking beautiful.
And I've even think, as Kaz was talking, the reason I think we don't like a lot of the social justice comics is not because of what they believe.
It's because I feel like they're disrespecting comedy.
You are not using this to tell your truth.
You are using this as propaganda.
You are not using this to get laughs.
You are using this to get claps.
Claps for your message.
This isn't a place for your message.
This is a place to respect comedy and be funny.
You got a message I don't agree with, but it's funny.
Yeah.
Bruh.
Yeah.
Here, two things with that.
So you said you're using stand-up comedy to get across your message.
Yeah.
Right?
They're fraudulent in two ways.
Because if you really wanted to help a cause, would you go on stage in the back of a bar with people watching the playoffs in the front and talking and then pontificate about the environment, whatever the fuck you're talking about?
No, you wouldn't.
So not only are you using stand-up comedy to push the agenda of this cause that you truly don't care about, because if you did, you'd be on the field actually trying to help out.
You're using the cause as well.
So what it really comes down to is you're empty like most of us, and you need to get filled, but you're not willing to work as hard.
So you're going to the lowest common denominator to get, it's hack.
It's the reason why we hate a hack joke because it's easy.
It is easy to go up there and say something that everybody in the audience is supposed to agree with in public and then just get claps for it.
It is hack and you are hacking your way to fill that void that we all have.
And that's what we hate because we have that void too, but we're going through a grueling fucking process of trying to tell truth and getting lashings and beatings on the fucking way.
So when we see someone take an easy route, we're like, fuck you, bro.
You just ran off the side of the rainbow trail in Mario Kart.
Fuck you, son.
Go the hallway.
It's corny to say, but we love this fucking, we love this.
This is our art.
I'm religious.
This is religion for me.
Comedy is just as much religion as Hinduism.
So when I see you putting your propaganda above stand-up, you're ISIS.
You are not using stand-up.
Yo, real shit.
You are taking this beautiful faith of mine.
You are beautiful.
You are perverting it for your own personal gain.
That's right.
I'll defend it.
You're comedy ISIS.
Chappelle said that shit, and I agree with it 1000%.
Like, I'll defend that shit.
We just said it way better than Chappelle.
I'll defend it to the day I die, bro.
Like, I may not agree with what you said it before.
I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend your right to say it to the death of me.
Yo, what's up?
This is Akash.
That was a preview of our Patreon episode.
If you want the full thing, go to www.patreon.com slash flagrantrue. Join the illest community on earth unless you're a social justice warrior. Then you're just going to ruin the fun.