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March 27, 2024 - Fresh & Fit
01:43:32
Should Men Get A 50 Lay Count Debate w/ Andrew Wilson
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Thank you.
Guys, welcome to Fresh Fit Podcast.
Today we have Andrew Wilson in the house.
Let's go.
It is Wednesday, a.k.a.
We got a lot of stuff to talk about.
It's RP Wednesday.
We got Andrew Wilson in the house, man.
I'm excited for this one.
You guys have been asking for this one for a bit, so we're making it happen, man.
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Without further ado, guys.
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But without further ado, guys.
Welcome to the show.
Angie Wilson.
Welcome.
Thank you.
So, who is Andrew Wilson?
We know who you are, but they might not know who you are.
For the audience, I might not know.
Yeah, my name is Andrew Wilson.
I'm the host of The Crucible.
It's the fastest growing debate channel on the internet to my knowledge.
I'm a bloodsport debater, and I like to tangle up with various people and their ideologies, especially feminists.
I particularly hate them.
But they're hardly the only ones.
Basically, anybody who exists on the progressive left I consider to be an inferior scumbag who needs to get their ideology destroyed, preferably by me.
That's funny.
Fair enough.
So, prior to the Bloodsport debates that you've been hosting and everything else like that, where you beat the crap out of liberals online...
Verbally.
Yeah, verbally.
Yeah, verbally.
We've got to say that because we're on YouTube.
Verbally.
Yeah.
How did you, like...
Take us through your upbringing.
Where are you originally from?
What's the Batman story?
Okay.
So, I'm from...
Originally, I grew up in California.
I was born there.
What part?
Montclair.
Montclair.
How far is that from...
What major city is the closest to there?
Like Sacramento, I think.
Oh, okay.
Sort of California.
Okay.
Yeah.
All right.
And was it as woke back then, obviously, as it is now?
Probably not.
It was pretty bad.
It was bad even back then?
Yeah.
Even when I was growing up, yeah.
Feminism is the air that you breathe.
It's the sea that we swim in.
It's the air that we breathe.
It's everywhere.
And it's indoctrinating.
And there is no escaping it.
All of us in this room are indoctrinated by it, whether we know it or not, and our forefathers would have laughed at us.
They would have laughed at us.
Even if you think that you're awesome, and man, I got it figured out, and I have shrugged off my indoctrination, you're wrong.
It's so hard to get away from it.
It's indoctrinated the entire West.
It's basically swallowed by it.
Yeah, and even the Middle East is starting to switch up with it as well, man.
I mean...
Yeah, I got a bunch of guys from, I mean, all over the place.
Iran sending me messages.
Even Iran.
Like, man...
Like, this is out of control over here.
You know what I mean?
And I'm like, it's out of control there?
Even when we're in Colombia, not too long ago, girls were saying some feminist rhetoric.
Yeah, back in the day, Colombia was a safe haven.
It was just like, you know, feminine women, go to have fun, enjoy life.
But now it's just like, almost like America.
It's crazy.
It changed a lot just over the past 10 years.
I think the Western infiltration of all the guys going there to simp and pay for box and stuff like that inadvertently brought the very thing they ran from the United States for.
It was a welcome secret until they brought people there and it messed it up.
You grew up in Montclair, California.
How old were you as a kid?
What decade were you there as a kid?
Roughly.
80s, 90s?
80s.
And early 90s.
Okay.
80s, early 90s.
And then did you go to college?
No.
Nope.
I'm a robotics mechanic by trade.
Okay.
I apprenticed for that.
But essentially, I grew up in the California area for most of my youth and then moved from there to Nevada.
Okay.
And then from Nevada.
And that's where you're based now, right?
No, Michigan.
Oh, you're in Michigan?
Mm-hmm.
Oh, shit.
Okay.
Because, yeah, you're always in Vegas, like, you know, so, well, I've seen you there a few times, obviously, working with Rolo and stuff like that, but you're based out of, what's that like, man, Michigan?
What do you even do there, bro?
I mean, you drink.
I was going to say, because it's cold as hell.
Like, how far are you from Detroit?
A couple hours.
A couple hours?
Okay.
All right.
Yeah.
But that's all you can do, really, is, you know, in the winter I drink, and then in the summer, it's great, and I stop drinking.
Michigan's a blue state, isn't it?
It is, but there's a lot of red and blue states.
You'd be surprised how many people are awesome in Michigan, especially in the Midwest area.
Of course.
They're all hardworking, kind of blue-collar guys.
Of course.
And so most of them hate Democrats.
Again, the cities have the vote.
Yeah, the cities have the vote.
And not only that, they have the voice.
What I've noticed is a lot of these places, even New York, there's a lot of people who think, man, New York is super woke.
Not really.
Once you leave New York City, there's a lot of conservative people in upstate, etc.
The problem is that Democrats tend to be the loudest, is what I've noticed.
They tend to be the loudest, right?
And they have the best and most well-organized lobbying groups.
And they utilize youth as part of their lobbying efforts.
And conservatives don't do that because when they're 18, 19, 20 years old, they're working.
Yep.
They're working.
They're not agitators.
Yeah.
And only during the Trump phenomenon did I actually start really seeing youth agitation, which is great.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean, conservatives need more youth agitation.
Back in 2016 you're talking, right?
Right.
Yeah.
I mean, dude, so funny story when I was in 2016 when he was campaigning, I was in I had graduated from college, but I went back because he was started campaigning like 2015, 2014.
He kind of announced that he was going to do it.
And I was still going back and forth.
I had to go visit my old college friends because they were still in school.
I was the oldest of my group, so I would go back and hang out with them every now and then.
And I had my America America Great Again hat.
And dude, there was a very good chance that if you wore that hat in Boston in those years, someone would probably try to start a fight with you.
And it's even worse now.
This is almost a decade ago.
Now it's even more woke.
So it's just wild.
And the thing about Michigan, because I knew it was a blue state, because I looked at the real estate there, because I was like, damn, there's some cheap houses here.
I might want to invest.
And then I realized, oh no, they have all these squatting laws where people can literally break into your house, and then you can't get them out.
And I'm like, what the hell?
A lot of those are local ordinances, too, passed by Democrats.
And you see it, especially in the Detroit area, there's heavy ordinances for this for squatters because they have so many abandoned buildings.
Basically, junkies will take the building over and suddenly in 30 days they have squatting rights.
It's insane.
Wild.
Baltimore also suffers from that.
Which, let me guess, both of them are super blue.
There's not many major metropolitan areas that aren't blue.
Yeah.
And if I'm not mistaken, I think someone, I forget who mentioned this stat, but they said that all the most dangerous cities in the United States that have the highest crime rates are all blue.
Yeah.
Makes sense.
That should be a sign, right?
Yeah.
No emotions.
Yeah.
But Andrew, what was your awakening moment, you would say, to the truth, reality, and away from this feminist mindset?
So, when I was younger, I didn't really give a shit about anything, man.
I mean, California was not a place for grounded ethics.
My dad was much...
I mean, he was basically out of time.
He was a product of the 40s.
So, he had me when he was older.
So, I had kind of an ethical foundation, which was out of the time zone I should have been in for the 90s.
So, I had conflict with people all the time.
You know what I mean?
I just really didn't understand how to get along very well.
Was it a question?
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
Very devout.
Where's your father from?
Protestant.
He was born and raised in California.
In California as well.
Okay.
So he just saw the slow degradation of the state over time.
Well, he was an entertainer and he got drafted.
And when he got drafted...
From Vietnam?
Yeah.
They sent him to Clark Air Force Base in the Philippines.
Okay.
And while he was there, his wife started putting everybody in town, essentially.
That's not your mom, right?
No, no.
Okay.
His first wife.
No, his first wife, yeah.
So when he came back, he also got diagnosed with multiple sclerosis.
So she took the kids and left him for dead.
Wow.
Right?
They gave him a year to live, left him for dead.
Wow.
Right when he got back.
Yeah.
When did he get back?
I don't remember the exact year.
Okay.
Yeah, but basically, when he got back, that was his story.
She really did a number on him.
So, anyway, he was basically slated to die.
He had to move back in with his parents, and it was a nightmare.
Wow.
And then he met my mom, and my mom was like a disco chick, basically.
You know what I mean?
But she devoted her entire life to him.
It was a blended family, but it worked.
Because he had kids from a prior relationship, didn't he?
Yeah, and she did, too.
Okay.
Yeah, she did, too, and he did.
And she had a rough story, too.
Her mom was a prostitute in Nevada, and she was mentally handicapped, and she was murdered when my mom was a little girl.
Wow.
And so she was sent...
Down South to live with her parents.
And yeah, so it was just like almost miraculous that they met each other.
And she was a nurse and she took care of him and kind of nursed him back to health.
He's still alive, even though he had a one-year toe tag.
So yeah, my big awakening moment I remember was he was talking, you know, I was partying all the time when I was 18, 19.
I remember he sat me down and he was like, listen, I would give anything to be in your normal body.
I would give anything on earth to be in your normal body and you're destroying it for nothing.
Wow.
Like, for what?
That was my kind of like, oh shit.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You know, maybe I should start taking things a little bit more serious.
You know what I mean?
What year was this when you told you this, roughly?
Well, let's see.
I was, what, maybe 19?
So, you know, 21 years ago, roughly.
Holy shit.
That is dark, bro.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like awakening.
What did you do after that conversation?
What was the first step that you made?
Well, the first thing I did was I put my nose to the grindstone and started working.
Mm-hmm.
And I really wanted to make a good life for myself and have a family.
So, you know, I started taking myself off the board.
I started, you know, I stopped basically man-whoring around.
Right?
Okay.
He focused.
Yeah, and that's the way that I went.
I met my wife.
My wife had children from her basically high school sweetheart, and then she was married and divorced.
And I was like, I don't know if this is going to work out.
But same thing.
She completely devoted her life to me.
And we had a rocky start.
But, I mean, we've been happily married for, I think, 12 years exactly.
Nice.
You found a good one.
Nice.
You made it work.
Yeah, she was great.
She's been fantastic.
Did you come with kids as well or no?
No.
No, you didn't come with children.
And people always, you know, I get a lot of shit for that.
Yeah.
But what's funny is it's not a contrary position to understand that there's going to be outliers who are single moms.
Yeah, of course.
But still having the general rule that you probably shouldn't date single moms?
Yeah.
Still true.
Yeah.
I think we can agree there's a great area on certain things in the RP. And see, I don't know if the audience has noticed that, right?
Yeah.
Because a lot of people that watch lack critical thinking skills might...
He's just told you, yo, typically this doesn't work.
It doesn't work.
There's outliers, though, in everything.
Yes.
In this situation, right, in general practice, you probably shouldn't get married to a woman that has children from another relationship.
However, Andrew was able to make it work, and you guys have been happily married for a while, so hey, it is what it is.
But for the general masses, it ain't gonna work for most people.
Oh, look, man.
And he even admitted that, and it's like people still talk shit, so it's like, all right.
I tried it.
It didn't work for me, but it works for him.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
There's always going to be outliers.
I think as a man, bro, if you're successful, if you're on your grind, if you're on the way up, and you've made it for yourself, you can make a choice for yourself, whatever you want to do.
There's always exceptions to the rule, right?
There's going to be general practices that you should probably avoid, but some guys can do it.
It is what it is.
Well, this stuff didn't exist either when I was growing up, just so you know.
When did you get married?
There wasn't this kind of information that was out there.
What is considered the red pill now...
Didn't even exist.
You know what I mean?
That was just like something that was brand new.
For me, when I was growing up, a blended family was...
Common.
That was every other person had a blended family.
Are your parents still together to this day?
Shit.
Still worked.
Yeah.
They're still together to this day, and they just adore each other.
You know what I mean?
But again...
So your dad's like 80-something.
Your dad was born in the 40s.
Dude, he wasn't alive during World War II. Yeah.
Yeah, well, the end of it, pretty much, right?
Vietnam?
Yep.
Kennedy assassination?
Yep.
Civil rights?
Yep.
Marches?
All that.
Martin Luther King?
Malcolm X? He knows the truth, bro.
He knows the truth.
And he was a staunch, I mean, diehard conservative.
I was born, he was a conservative, and when he dies, he's a, I mean, he is as far right as they come.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Loathe Democrats.
And he put a really good foundation of loathing the left into me.
I was going to ask, because a lot of people, I'll admit it, I had a very liberal mindset before, and then as I got older, I was like, what the fuck?
This is bullshit.
Like, you become wiser, you get older, and then you start making money, and you're like, wait, what do you mean I got to give this to people that don't want to work?
This is stupid.
And then you naturally just start to become more and more conservative and Republican.
You know, it is what it is.
For you, you never had that, I guess.
No.
And my mom always backed his play.
But, I mean, my earliest memories are of my dad looking at the television with the Clintons on, you know, and going...
This guy's a fucking traitor!
I can't believe it!
This son of a bitch needs to get put in irons!
That's my early memories of my father.
I walk in the living room and he'd be like, hey son, how you doing?
How is everything?
I'd be like, fine.
He'd go, oh, that's great.
This fucking traitor!
That's my earliest memories of my dad.
Yeah.
Well, you're old enough to remember Reagan.
Was that...
Not really.
No?
Not really.
So, like, kind of Bush was...
Early Bush was...
First Bush was a little bit clearer to me.
Okay.
And then after that, mostly Clintons are where I started to cut my teeth on politics or even started paying attention.
I was still a kid.
Gotcha.
Okay.
Question.
So you mentioned the red pill.
Mm-hmm.
What's your thoughts on the red pill itself?
Well, so...
self does not exist what exists is an idea catalog idea and you're using the red pill as a descriptor for this idea okay that's all it is so the idea at least from my perspective of the red pill is we want to know what is descriptively true before we make prescriptions for anything right so let's start with what is descriptively true the red pill says men and women aren't equal That was the first thing I saw.
And I was like, okay, maybe there's something here.
Maybe there's something good here, right?
A little pushback to egalitarianism.
They also make other claims, too.
They make claims about what women are attracted to, what they're not attracted to, what men are looking for, what they're not looking for.
They're trying to get into kind of the sociology of the pairing of men and women.
Yeah.
From my perspective, almost all of the descriptors of the red pill line up perfectly with Christian ethics.
It's when you get into prescriptions that we start having troubles.
So, for instance, I know you're infamous for this, but the have sex with 50 women thing.
Just so I make sure I don't get this position wrong, but I can give you a counterexample of what I'm saying.
Can you lay your position on that out?
Why?
Yeah.
Okay, so we would agree, right, that the dating marketplace has changed.
Oh, yeah.
Right?
Yeah.
Women have changed, right?
They think they're equal to you, the egalitarian thing that we talked about before.
So, system of dating marketplace has changed significantly and women have more sexual experience now than ever before because they think they're men and they can have sex and have relationships just like men, etc., and be promiscuous and not deal with the same ramifications.
What guys have to do is kind of go in and understand how women operate in today's day And I think a good way to do that, right, obviously there's a multitude of ways, but one way to do it is obviously to have experience so that you're not getting into a relationship or a situation with a woman and you're not aware of her nature and you don't know how to deal with it.
I like to use the analogy all the time.
If you know you got a boxing match in five years with a very good and skilled opponent, what are you going to do?
Are you going to play video games the whole time?
Or are you going to train and get ready for the biggest fight of your life, which I look at as marriage?
Because it makes you worldly.
It makes you worldly.
I think we don't disagree that that's true.
The Christian ethics pushback to this would be, but wait, You want...
This is a requirement or something which is helpful to make you a high-value man.
Yeah.
Well, this in turn would give this hoe value.
But I don't determine a guy's high-valueness from having sex with a lot of girls.
I think a man being deemed as high-status or high-value is from his effort and his merit that he develops on his own and then the women are bi-profit.
But he has experience now.
And experience is going to help him be high-value, right?
I wouldn't attribute him being, because there's guys that are high value that don't get girls.
I wouldn't say, yeah, they're successful, they're smart, they're ambitious, et cetera, but they don't get girls.
Maybe they don't go out enough, maybe they don't care.
Oh, right, right.
But they're more likely to get them if they want them, right?
Absolutely.
Yeah, they're in a better position.
Because it's a byproduct.
But my thing is, your value as a man is not attributed to The amount of girls that you have sex with.
I just think it allows you to be a better test of character.
You're better able to assess the character of women when you've dealt with them before so that you don't get finessed out of the value that you created.
But wouldn't the entailment of that be that you're high value?
Like, the entailment of, I have X amount of experience that helps me with my value.
Like, that's going to be a portion of that.
And so, kind of the rebuttal that we would have is we would say, okay, maybe that's...
I just don't attribute, like, a man's sexual experience to him being high value.
I think it helps him with assessing...
A partner.
A partner.
But him being high value is completely independent of having sex with a lot of girls.
I think the women are a byproduct of his success.
Okay, so he is successful.
It's easier for him to get these checks.
Yes.
And I think if he's going to go ahead and partake in women, he should have some experience, is what I think.
Especially when he's higher value and he has a lot to lose.
So if I take two guys, right?
One guy is wildly successful, etc., and another guy is wildly successful.
One has a partner count of 1,000.
The other one has a partner count of zero.
To me, they're still both high value.
Just one chose to use its value to attract way more women to another.
But would you make it a prescription then?
Would you tell men, you should do this?
It's good for you to do this.
I think if you're going to go and be marriage-minded and try to find a girl to take seriously, you should have some experience.
Then that has to add to the value.
I don't think so, man.
Because you're high-value.
If you're saying you want this thing, and this thing is to get married to a high-value woman, right?
To somebody who you consider to be virtuous and good and this type of thing, right?
Mm-hmm.
If you're saying that having sex with a multitude of partners is then going to up your chances of being able to do this thing, to accomplish this thing, then I don't see how it's not attributing to the value.
A man's value and him having sex, they're independent to me.
You can be a virgin as a guy and still be a high-value dude, is how I look at it.
I think the women are just a byproduct of your value.
But it is a prescription that you would make?
If your prescription as far as, oh, the 50 girls.
Yes, but you can be high value and not take that prescription.
Right, but you must see some value then in prescribing it.
And the value is from protecting your value.
Does that make sense?
Sure.
Yeah, that totally makes sense.
The value is you protecting your value, but you don't need the women for that value.
Right, but I think that here's the entailment.
Yeah, sure.
So if you're prescribing, have sex with 50 women, okay?
This is your prescription because the prescription has value.
Then whatever the hoes are that they're sleeping with, that's an entailment.
So the hoe has to have value.
Not necessarily.
Well, you could call them like puns.
I mean, they would be necessary for you to sleep with 50 women, right?
No, because, not necessarily, because what ends up happening, because a lot of the girls, let's be honest, they'll be bumbos, stupid chicks, idiots, morons, lower status women.
But necessary for you to sleep with.
So that you can follow that prescription.
If you can get by with less, sure.
But I think a decent barometer is 50 in today's day and age because it will put you in a position where you'll experience a multitude of different girls with different personality types, different behaviors, different red flags, different green flags, etc.
So you'll have a general...
Rubric of like, okay, these girls that go to the club all the time probably aren't good.
I've dealt with like three of them now.
Okay, these girls that are from a sorority, maybe not so good.
So you kind of have an idea of like, alright, you get a generality of things.
Well, so to like the olive branch, the meeting you halfway.
I would not say for a second that the more sexual experience you have and the more worldly you are, that you're not going to have experience in dealing with worldly women.
There's no doubt.
Or women who aren't worldly.
You're still going to have experience in both.
All I'm saying is that I think it's a logical entailment to say.
I'm going to prescribe that you go sleep with, let's just say it's 20, right?
It doesn't even have to be 50, 15, 10, 5, it doesn't matter.
You and I both know the types of women those guys are going to be sleeping with are going to be easy women, and they're going to be low-value women.
They're basically going to be hoes.
So if that's the case, that the hoes are who they're going to be sleeping with, then we have now entailed that hoes have to have value or else you couldn't sleep with them.
I think all women have inherent value, though, even hoes.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying, though.
You're saying they're valuable.
Because all females have some type of value because they're women.
But as far as, like...
Attributing that value to yourself and taking her serious, I think that's a different thing.
So you got to figure out which ones are, you know, worth the relationship and which ones aren't.
And I think the way to do that is through, obviously, experiencing that.
Now, from our view, from the Christian ethicist view, they have no value.
They only have human value.
But they do not have, I would consider them at the lowest end.
If they're not virgins, like what constitutes?
Of the value hierarchy.
Women who are very promiscuous and they see sex as a tool or as a utility or as a manipulation device or things like this, instantly the Christian ethicist is going to look at this and say, this is completely sinful, needs to stop, you're totally valueless.
Yeah, I'm sorry.
Your humanity is still very valuable.
You as a person is still very valuable.
Your salvation is really important to us.
But this type of sinful behavior, from our perspective, is completely degradating to society.
And we need to stop it by almost any means necessary.
Because what ends up happening, it's like an enclosed system.
What ends up happening, from my perspective, is that degeneracy leads to degeneracy leads to degeneracy leads to degeneracy.
Okay.
And there never seems to be a pullback.
It's always a push forward.
I mean, we're talking about shit now.
You guys couldn't even imagine what we're talking about now with like transferees and all this different stuff, you know what I mean?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You couldn't have even fathomed that.
That's a new one.
Could you have even fathomed that we would be talking about child genital mutilation?
I mean, who would ever have envisioned that this would be the world we live in?
Yeah, it's crazy.
But if you back it up, if you look at kind of the slippery slope argument, quote unquote, that started with an LGBTQ push for equality...
And once they have it, you have nothing else to complain about.
You have to move the goalpost to the next victim group.
Then you have to move the goalpost to the next victim group.
And it becomes more and more and more absurd.
And that's why you'll see the pendulum eventually is going to swing back the other way by necessity.
If I may, we're not arguing on a, I want to say, religious standpoint.
It's more of a logical standpoint.
Sure.
Let's be honest here.
You yourself, if you weren't versed in women, you can choose for yourself the wife you have today, right?
Yeah, that's true.
So on some level, we do need to have women as, I want to say pawns.
I said pawns earlier.
That's kind of wrong.
I would say as, I want to say, an experience booster to understand what I really want in my life or what I actually need.
So I think on some level, you still need to have that experience as a man.
I think.
Yeah, I mean, I definitely see your Christian viewpoint, and I think all religions pretty much have, whether it's Islam, Judaism, Christianity, they're all pretty much, hey, like sexual degeneracy, it's not in our best interest here from a religious standpoint, which I completely understand, which that's why I'm, when I dispense this advice, it's more from a strategic standpoint of, okay, if you're not a religious guy, et cetera, right?
Most of them are not religious, right?
They're just not, unfortunately.
Most people are secular in today's day and age.
So I look at it like, okay...
Even the religious.
Even the religious are more secular.
Yeah, there you go.
Exactly.
So my thing, I look at it like, okay...
Though religion is great and I think it's a great framework for people to operate in, unfortunately we don't have those training wheels anymore.
So I think for guys to really move in this new sexual marketplace where, like you said before, these girls a lot of the times are fucking 304s.
How's a guy that's been a virgin his whole life, super devout, has the rose-colored glasses on, doesn't know how women really move in today's day and age, how's he going to be able to tell if a girl really likes him or she's just selling him a dream?
Like, oh, I'm pure, etc.
He won't know.
Right now, of course, thank God there's content like this where we might be able to curb him having 50 bodies and he might be able to only do 20, 30, 40.
He might not need the full 50 because we're telling him, hey, this is what it is.
They always say a smart person learns from their mistakes, a wise person learns from another person's mistakes.
Hell, on this show, we tell you guys our mistakes all the time.
So people maybe with all this information, they're able to curb it and learn from an earlier standpoint.
But a lot of guys, what I've noticed is A lot of guys are stupid.
Let's just keep it a thousand.
They gotta fucking burn their hand on the kitchen stove to figure out that it's actually hot.
And that's why the information is usual.
It's like for the general masses.
Are there smart guys out there that will figure this shit out with less?
Of course.
But I think for most guys, especially those hard-headed guys, with 50 chicks under your belt, Man, you should at least be able to figure out the girls that are worth the relationship versus the ones that aren't.
And then most importantly, the girls that are trying to sell you a dream of, oh, I'm pure, etc.
And you find out that there are three or four.
I have a question, Andrew.
How would you solve this issue?
Solve the problem...
Of men finding the type of wife.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
This is pretty complex.
Okay, so...
So our adaptation is kind of like for today's day and age, if you're not like a religious guy, but what's your...
Yeah, so backing it off, I'm not going to let you guys get away totally with this, so I'm bringing it back.
It's not a diversion, but I'm bringing it back.
Okay, sure.
So, from a secular perspective, it can't be fixed.
From a secular perspective, it can't be fixed.
Secularists have no moral foundation at all.
Like it or not, they don't, and it really can't be fixed.
However, what I can point to is this.
Let's assume for a second hypergamy is real.
I assume that it is.
I think, generally speaking, there's enough evidence that we can look at and we can say, hypergamy is, at least it's real enough.
It's real enough.
Agreed.
It used to be under control.
They used to be under control.
Yeah, yeah.
Religion used to be under control.
Like it or not, we had that shit under control and under lock and key.
Religion, shame, families, fathers, all these things used to combat it.
Secularism destroyed all that.
I agree.
And so, when I say to people, and I understand the argument, we're never going back to that, but we are.
We are going to go back to that, and I'm going to explain how.
It's not going to be in our generation, but if you look at the birth rates, the global birth rates, they're in massive, rapid decline, and it's a problem most people have no idea about yet, how bad the population collapse is really going to be.
It's very bad, especially in the Western countries.
But you know these stats.
What age are women on average now getting married?
Into their late 20s, 30s now.
30 is the average age, right?
I think it's 31 is the average age last time I looked.
How many kids are you going to have as a 31-year-old woman?
Very few.
Very few.
Well, these women are becoming quicker and quicker genetic dead ends, but so are secularists in general.
If you look at the religious, the religious reproduce far and away more than secularists reproduce.
Cross-generationally, this is going to become worse and worse and worse.
As people leave the Protestant churches, they're moving towards Catholicism, Orthodoxy, more traditional churches.
There's big pushes in those churches to have families and to have children and to reproduce.
You know the old adage for Catholics, right?
If you don't have ten kids, you have no kids, right?
Reproduction is the future.
The religious reproduce, and secularists are not reproducing.
That's why London has been taken over by Muslims.
That's right.
That's right.
And if you look at, you know, I'll only touch on this very briefly, but even if you look at Israel, Israel is the only westernized nation that has a reproduction rate that is stable.
It's actually over what is necessary, because they took one look at it and went...
Okay, we got to get these numbers up.
How are we going to do that?
So they implemented an in vitro fertilization program for free for the entire nation.
Really?
Yeah, for the whole nation.
An in vitro fertilization.
You can go have it done 12 times and they'll pay for everything.
Interesting.
In order to keep those numbers up.
Okay.
Because they look around, they're like, we're surrounded by it.
Yeah, it makes sense why they would do it.
We better have a future army, right?
We better have a future army.
But the West has not rang the alarm bells just yet.
They're just now talking about it in Congress.
But then, what's another side effect of that?
Your domestic population is not reproducing.
How do you keep the number at 330 million?
There's only one way to do that, right?
Yeah.
And that's going to be with immigration coming in.
Yeah.
And, well, that creates instability all on its own.
And then what happens if you start pulling in immigrants from other nations and they have a reproduction crisis?
Yeah.
Right?
So, if you look at all the downsides of a coming population collapse, you can see that religion's going to make a pretty heavy comeback.
And you see it already being fought about now.
Secular ethics can't offer people anything.
It can offer them only hedonism, but ultimately it can't give people purpose.
It just says, go find your own purpose.
But what the hell does that mean?
That doesn't help anybody.
How does that help people to tell them, well, just go find your own purpose?
Like, well, that's what I'm here for.
I'm here to find purpose, right?
That's what I came to church for, is to find purpose.
Secularists can't provide that.
So, I agree with you, Andrew.
I think in the future, things will change.
However, right now, what do you do?
Well, so, right now, you should try...
I mean, this is me again.
If I look at the historic trends, most men were never able to reproduce anyway, okay?
Some 60-70%, they were never able to reproduce.
Only a minority.
Ever.
That's why we have double the female ancestors to male ancestors, right?
Right.
I would still say that the best thing that you can do is to try to live an integrity-filled life and that at the end of that life, regardless of how it went, right, maybe you didn't get that hedonistic pleasure that you wanted, but neither did your ancestors.
They didn't get that either.
And I think hypergamy has always been this thing, this issue, and that women have been this way.
We have Helen of Troy to look at.
We have Samson and Delilah to look at.
We know that this is the nature of women.
We also know that most men were never able to reproduce, ever.
And most of the women that we have right now, if we have men going out and turning out hoes, if we have them going out and turning out hoes, doesn't that hurt the future men, you know what I mean, who want to lay down and marry these women, if we're going out and turning them out?
That seems like it's counterproductive to me.
I see your perspective.
I can also argue, though, they're already being turned out.
They're already there.
They're already made.
There had to be a ground zero.
There was a ground zero penis somewhere.
Remember, you mentioned feminism and culture itself, the music.
They did all the work for them.
We just come in and...
Well, I mean, he said it earlier.
If you're going to continue to stay secular, it's never.
Which I agree.
It's never.
And that's kind of why...
Because I'm looking at it like, okay.
Because I see...
And I want to actually ask you how you think it'll go back to being a religious state, but let's assume that it's not, right?
Let's assume that people are going to continue to live free and woo, secularism, etc.
I'm looking at it like, okay, there are guys out there that want a family.
There are guys out there that want to one day...
Because I think the nuclear family is the backbone of any society, any thriving society.
As a matter of fact, the reason why we're so fucked up now is because we don't have...
A lot of nuclear families anymore, right?
When I was in UAE, for example, I saw strollers everywhere, families together, etc.
I don't see that here.
Hell, even in Miami, I see people walking dogs more than walking with kids.
The little dogs, too.
The little annoying dogs, yeah.
So I say all that to say this.
For the guys out there that do want a family one day, etc., and I don't want them to get destroyed by the divorce machine, right?
I'm like, okay, you want a family, you want a wife.
This is very risky in 2024 with the way women are programmed, right?
So I think one way to deal with it is to have experience with them so you can at least rule out the bad ones.
I'm not telling you to find a perfect girl, but at least be able to rule out the bad ones so that you can have a family with a chick and she won't destroy your life.
That's the only reason.
What if there's a better way in marriage, though?
Sure, go ahead.
What about covenant marriage?
What about using covenant marriage and the ecclesiastical authority of the church to govern the marriage where you actually have communities?
One of the big things that's missing from...
Can you explain that to me because I'm not a Christian, so...
From your...
So, well, Islam has their own form of ecclesiastical authority.
They wouldn't call it that, okay?
But in Muslim nations, they have Sharia law, Sharia courts...
We'll actually adjudicate marriages.
They'll adjudicate all sorts of things from the religious authority.
Christians have always had this.
We've always had an ecclesiastical authority.
The Catholic Church has it.
The Orthodox Church has it.
The ecclesiastical authority is a way to govern your life and govern your marriage, exit the state.
And you can enter into a covenant marriage, and they do not just let you go.
They do not just release you from your vow.
And if you have community pressure, that's the social shame you're talking about.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
What's going on right now?
I'm a fan of marriage without a statement.
I've talked about this.
And you should be.
Because what's happened instead is we have traded a good ecclesiastical foundation with community for this crazy-ass contract where it's easier to break than a cell phone contract.
Yeah.
And women have all the incentive in the world to break it.
Why in the world would we ever endorse from a Christian perspective to get involved in a secular marriage?
That's the worst idea on planet Earth.
We should be recommending covenant marriages through the church, govern through the church, and those communities, your own community.
That's where you get the social shame.
That's where you get the pressure.
Because right now, if you go and you involve yourself in a secular marriage, you go to the courthouse, you get married tomorrow.
Where's the community?
Yeah.
Where's the support structure?
Maybe your family, maybe not.
It's just you and her against the world?
That's insane.
You know what I mean?
You have children.
You have financial woes.
You've got to have a community.
Well, there's a reason why the phrase, it takes a village to raise a child.
That's why.
And shame is a very powerful thing.
And I agree with you, because we've talked about this if you're going to get married.
We always tell guys, if you're going to get married, make sure the state's not involved.
If you're a Muslim, go ahead and just get married at the mosque.
Or by the church.
Or by the church.
I wasn't aware.
What's it called?
Ecclesiastic?
Missed by the church, basically.
Same thing.
And if you have marital problems, go to the church.
Yeah, and I think that's a fantastic way to get around it.
You know what I mean?
And you should.
I mean, if you look at the most successful marriages in the United States, you want to know what some of the most successful ones are?
Mormon marriages.
For sure.
Why?
Yeah.
The Mormons have their own church authority and community that applies significant social pressure.
They're like, no, you don't get to just do your husband like this.
You don't get to just do these types of...
Oftentimes, they don't even involve the state at all.
State's not even...
You get married within the community in the eyes of God because that's what marriage is.
Marriage has nothing to do with a state contract.
The state should only be involved in things which are good for the entirety of the nation.
Marriage is now not good.
And that's terrible.
That's an awful position to be in, to have the state promoting something as toxic as marriage through the state now is.
It's a raw deal for men.
It's a bad deal even for women, ultimately, because they have the incentive to do it, and they seem to regret it.
They take years of regretting this, and it's like, if we're going to change this, fine.
But let's actually move towards that, towards actually changing these laws, actually moving against the laws.
And where the Tradcons get it wrong is they refuse to engage with the Red Pillars saying, listen, we're getting destroyed.
Men are just getting destroyed out here.
They're getting wrecked everywhere, right?
And you hear their stories over and over again.
And I see these guys in the Daily Wire.
They're like, well, you could get lucky.
You might get lucky.
One of these days.
Look at me.
I got lucky.
Look at him.
He got lucky, too.
That's stupid advice.
Why would you ever give advice like that?
Instead of looking at the problem objectively and saying, look, there's really nothing inside of our religious purview that says that we shouldn't be pushing back against state authority for marriage since we consider it to be...
You know, in the eyes of God, not in the eyes of the state.
That's what we should be pushing for.
That's what the traditional conservative side is supposed to be pushing for.
Religious institutional marriage, forget the state.
Totally worthless.
Well, so if we're doing that, then I look at it like, okay, well, let's say you make a bad mistake.
Let's say you don't have the 50 body count.
You got five, right?
Mm-hmm.
Or maybe you're a virgin.
You get married to a chick.
You didn't know that she was a 304 before.
And then she goes ahead and breaks up with you and breaks your heart and shit like that.
Well, at least you can get out of it now where you don't owe a bunch of money to her or whatever it may be.
That's one way.
But, you know, again...
Right?
That's a heavy force.
People forget the institutional power and community power churches have.
And community shame is brutal.
It is brutal.
And you have some churches, they have, I mean, serious institutions.
It's the last institutional authority of the right, and we don't use it for anything.
And that's why, like, my thing is, because when I give my advice, I'm like, alright, I'm assuming they're not Christian, they're not devout, they're going to get with a chick that isn't Christian, not devout, they're secular, etc.
So I'm like, okay, that's how most young people identify nowadays.
We don't live in a Christian society anymore, unfortunately.
We do not.
We don't.
So I'm looking at it like, okay, this is how you deal with the new normal.
Is it optimal?
Should you be running out there and trying to fuck 50 girls in general?
Well, no, because it, well, yes and no, because chasing after girls, I've always said this, going after women inevitably puts you in a situation where you're not fucking productive.
You're fucking texting girls all the time.
You're going out on dates.
You're going to nightclubs.
You're spending money and resources.
You're spending resources.
The pursuit of women in itself is extremely labor-intensive.
So yeah, it's annoying.
But I look at it like, I'd rather you do this work up front, know how women are, then...
You do all this work, make yourself high value, then you have the time finally to go ahead and date, and then you go ahead and you date.
You find a girl, she's really a whore, but she sells you a dream.
You go ahead, you get married to this girl, and then bam, next thing you know, the state's taking half your money.
But with what you said, okay, we're getting married only through the church or through a mosque or whatever, and you are not incentivized to leave.
Believe me.
Well, I could meet in the middle ground there because the guy isn't going to be destroyed.
But knowing that most guys are going to do what?
The dumb ass is going to go to the church?
Sure, I'll go ahead and sign here so you can have out the money because I'm an idiot because that's what most fucking guys are going to do.
Right?
It depends on what we're pushing them towards.
Yeah.
So if they're going to do that, right, and go through the—because let's be honest, a lot of modern-day women, they won't accept getting married just by the church or just by a mosque.
They want the security that comes with a state-sanctioned manner.
But wouldn't that be a red flag?
That's true.
But wouldn't that be the red flag where you're like, wait, you won't get married to the church?
I thought you loved me.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You're right.
But, dude, see, the thing is that we're having a higher IQ conversation here at the table because we're able to understand this.
Yeah.
Most guys are fucking idiots, man.
Let's keep it a thousand.
They're fucking idiots.
They're like, pussy!
Pussy!
Okay!
Outside the contract!
Outside the contract!
Like, it's crazy the things that guys will do for women.
It's fucking scary, man.
Like, when I do some of these consultations with these guys, and they say what they've done for women, etc.
And looking back to, like, I'm an idiot, 20-20 hindsight now, etc.
But when you're in love with a girl, or you don't know better, or whatever, like, these guys really put themselves in very dangerous situations with these women.
So I'm like, fuck!
Like, If you guys are going to do this and sign your life away and go to a courthouse and marry this chick that you know has all these red flags, like goddamn, at least have some experience, man, before you go into the slaughterhouse.
So that's how I look at it.
But I agree with you, man.
If we can go back where guys can go ahead and get married, Through the church or the mosque and there's no incentive for the woman to leave them?
Yeah, fuck yeah!
See, my only other pushback then, really, is when I think...
Because you and I both know, probably all of us today will know, like, high-value man is kind of a nebulous term.
Don't know exactly what that means, but I think...
Very nebulous.
I think heuristically we know, right?
Yeah, it's very nebulous.
So we can be like...
A guy purports himself well, has enough money to take care of himself, handles his responsibilities, that kind of thing.
I think we kind of know it when we see it.
And so I think that's fair.
But when I think of high value, too, I institute things like virtue.
I think of virtues.
I think of integrity, virtue, virtue ethics.
Those are the things that I would consider to be high value as well.
Some stoicism thrown in there, maybe.
Okay.
All right.
The only drawback, even for secularists, because you can get secularists to move towards virtue ethics.
They may reject God, they may reject religion, but they will act as though religion is real if you give them some foundation like virtue ethics.
And so the only drawback I really see, even from the secular side of telling them, hey, this will make you worldly, that's going to hurt their virtue.
It's going to ultimately hurt their virtue to basically kind of man-whore around, right?
And that's something that later in life...
But reflectively, when they're 40 or 50, they might look back on and be like, hey, look, you know, that was, I was not living a high-integrity lifestyle.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, when it comes to, so your pushback is what, because it lacks the virtue, is what you're saying?
Yeah, there's no virtue in promiscuity for men or women.
I think you would agree with that, even as a secularist, that you said yourself, sleeping with a ton of women in and of itself is not a virtuous act.
Maybe you think it's neutral, right?
But it certainly has no virtue.
Yeah, no.
No, I agree.
But for women, right, it has a really bad side effect that it doesn't even have for men.
And because of the gatekeepers of sex, there's even less virtue.
I agree.
I agree.
But it takes two to tangle.
And so anybody who's going to have sex with one of these women, they're going to be taking away from the virtue of themselves and the woman.
And for me, when I look at men of status, women of status, who maintain their virginity, like I met a gentleman named Mason when I was on whatever.
Dude, square-jawed, real strong guy.
He maintained his virginity.
He didn't seem like he was unaware of female nature to me, but I can understand that probably plenty are, right?
Yeah.
But he seemed like a really virtuous guy, you know what I mean?
And there is some kind of integrity to that, that when you meet a man who has tons of virtue, you'll follow him off a building, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And so I think that keeping virtue intact is another thing which, in Western society, we should be pushing towards.
Yeah.
Understandable.
Even from a secular framework, that seems to be more optimal.
You know what I mean?
Understandable.
Yeah, I mean, I think that's obviously ideal.
I just think with the way things are, for a guy to be able to find that virtuous woman, he's got to deal with some women that aren't virtuous.
And the only way he's going to do that is through experience.
I'm looking at it more from like a...
A preventative standpoint, where it's like...
Well, it's pragmatic.
Yeah, in today's day and age, right?
If women weren't the way they are now, I would tell guys, stay a virgin.
Fucking wait, man.
Exercise that discipline.
But nowadays, with just the way women are, it's like you almost get punished for being that nice guy and being extremely virtuous and nice to these girls because they don't reward that anymore.
Like, chivalry is dead, and I genuinely think modern-day women killed it.
So it's like...
Though I think that's optimal and the best way to go about it, I just don't think it's practical or pragmatic in today's day and age.
It's my only issue.
Well, I mean, the problem is there's a lot of truth in what you say.
And so, you know, I'm a firm believer in accepting what is objective reality.
It is objective reality that promiscuity inside of Western nations is now out of control to the point where reining it back in seems like almost a fool's errand.
But I also think that if we can, if we can provide any pushback to move it the right direction, we should.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, and now I'm actually like, you know, brainstorming here how we would do that.
The only way we would do it is, yeah, you would have to make a religious state to do it.
Because quite frankly...
Well, at least give a religious option, right?
And let the religious govern it as synergy.
So the nations of old had a synergistic relationship.
It was not that the state was run by the church, just that the state worked with the church.
Why should the state govern marriage?
So you're not a fan of separation of church and state then?
Well, not a separation.
I think, though, that we should not necessarily live in a state which is controlled by the church, but has a synergistic relationship.
Your population needs to have some moral foundation, right?
You can't have people who, you know, even patriotism itself used to be a big deal in the United States, right?
That was a unifying force.
So there's all kinds of propaganda towards patriotism, right?
It was everywhere.
There was American flags and, you know, the patriotic messaging was everywhere.
It's a subtle form of brainwashing.
Which unifies people through an ideology.
Yeah.
Religion does the same thing.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And it's like, if you can push any kind of synergy with the church, you don't have to make the...
But how would we get the young people to do that?
Because my thing is, you know, so I see your perspective and I see your vision.
Like, I agree with you that religion absolutely curbs a lot of this bullshit.
The problem is, how are you going to get the young people...
To accept it.
Like, how are you going to get the young people to be...
The same way that the leftists did it.
Okay.
Through moving through institutions as quickly as we possibly can and adjusting our propaganda at the national level.
The propaganda I want to see at the national level sounds like this.
Get married young!
Have a million children because we're going to tax-exempt you from life.
You know, for life.
You'll be tax-exempt for life.
Three kids, right?
We're going to make it really hard for you to get a divorce because the state's getting out of it.
You can only get married through your church.
Mm-hmm.
The state's not even going to offer a marriage certificate.
We don't need to anymore because our job is to push towards the health and welfare of the United States.
And this is no longer healthy for the United States to have marriage through the state.
It has become so bad that people who enter it Your likelihood of exiting clean is almost zero percent, right?
Yeah.
Impossible.
So you can do the same thing.
You can have national rhetoric, national brainwashing campaigns, right?
Just the other direction.
Now, brainwashing has a negative connotation to it.
So how are you going to override?
And this is just like, I genuinely want to get your opinion on this.
How do we override the Cardi B's, the sexy reds, the ridiculous music, the ridiculous social media addiction that a lot of young people have, the TikTok working, the OnlyFans culture that we have, the sex work.
I would argue nowadays that young women are more inspired by sex workers than anything else, right?
If you ask a young, attractive girl, who's your role model?
We've done it on the podcast a bunch of times.
Who do they say?
Kim K. Kim K. Yeah.
It's fucking crazy!
I've heard that, and it's like, it's sickening to listen to.
So it's like, how are we gonna override all the degenerate propaganda that's been put out there?
Muslims are fantastic at this, and Christians are not.
Muslims engage.
What I've noticed about Muslims is they engage.
They engage in ideology, man.
They engage in political prescriptions, and they're in your face about it.
Christians have become soft and too nice.
We have adopted Christianity to be a be-nice religion, and it never was a be-nice religion.
It's passive.
It's supposed to be a get-in-your-face religion.
It's supposed to be a no, you're wrong.
You can skank, you're wrong, and you're a liar, and you're destroying the very fabric of society.
But we don't see that engagement from Christians anymore because it's been so subverted by women saying, no, be nice.
What I would like to see is instead of theological debates going on all over the place between Christian versus Christian, I'd like to see more Christians actually move into the political space like I have.
You even see guys like Fuentes did this.
They move into the political space, and they fight that way.
They push back using Christianity ideologically through politics.
And that's become very popular.
Suddenly, it starts picking up steam.
You start hearing about things like Christian nationalism.
You start hearing about Christian hierarchies and all these different ideas, not because we're having obscure theological debates, but because we're getting in your face politically.
We're saying, no, Christians aren't passive.
No, Christians aren't sissies.
No, Christians aren't supposed to just sit there.
Why, secularists rule us.
That is a huge misinterpretation that people have that secularists are somehow better off having power than the religious.
That's insane.
Secularists are not good at wielding power.
They have no moral grounding from which to wield it.
So if we really want to see change, instead of trying to get into Christian apologetics in order to have theological debates and theological discussions, get into Christian politics and go get in their face.
And that, I think, will have more of a result in society than people can imagine.
Is it going to happen overnight?
No.
Is it going to be cross-generational?
Yeah.
But I'd rather see people push that direction.
Yeah, we're talking 60 to 100 years then.
Probably 60 years.
Yeah.
But that's a blink of the eye.
Yeah, yeah.
It's a blink of the eye.
You know what I mean?
And it's like, maybe we can't save them all, right?
But we can at least start the process.
And it's like, I would rather start the process and start moving that direction and be realistic with the outcome, right?
The most beautiful churches in the world.
It took three, four, five hundred years, thousand years to build.
They were cross-generational projects.
And it's like, I'm not saying that we can save men right now.
That would be absurd.
What I am saying though is that men can save themselves by working towards that goal.
Yeah, religion's always been a very good way to increase productivity.
Obviously, keep your head on straight.
Avoid a bunch of stupid shit.
Luckily, if you've got discipline, you can avoid being an alcoholic or doing drugs and doing all that stupid shit.
But yeah, religion absolutely helps a lot of people when it comes to that.
I look at it like, damn.
Are people going to...
Because I think it's going to get worse before it gets better, personally.
I think it's going to continue to get even...
I think women are going to continue to be even...
I think it's going to be...
Like, right now, it's cool to be a sex worker as a chick.
You've got young people nowadays, right?
Boys and girls saying, I want to be an influencer, right?
For the girls, I want to be an influencer that's sexualizing myself.
For the guys, they want to be a moronic idiot that's on Twitch running around doing stupid shit.
So it's like...
The youth is just brainwashed.
Then you compound that with the music, with TikTok, with pornography, the ubiquity of pornography.
Subversion's everywhere.
It's fucking crazy.
I look at it like, fuck, okay, how's the guy going to navigate this nowadays?
Religion ain't going to save you from these hoes right now.
Maybe, like you said, in two to three generations.
You know what saves men, though?
A mission.
Absolutely, I agree.
What saves men is a mission.
And if you give men a direction, and they know that they're collectively working towards that mission, man, it's incredible how much men can achieve, even with a small collective, and a mission and an ideology.
I agree.
I agree.
Push that.
Well, for me, you know what I mean?
I'm going to push that.
I'm going to push that direction.
And it's been so successful in days past.
And we've just forgotten we have our own institution, too.
The church.
We have our own institutional power.
And we can push back.
But we have to get in their face.
We have to stop pretending that Christianity is a be-nice Yeah, I was going to say, what is your strategy?
Because, like, you've got gay pastors now.
You've got female pastors.
You get in their face.
You've got all this stuff.
You ask these guys just like what happened with TPUSA when they asked them the question of all questions.
You know, how is it that, you know, your LGBTQ push in conservatism is helping us win the culture war?
And they had no answer to it, right?
By the way, stroke of political genius that that happened, okay?
They got in their face.
They said, no, this is not part of Christian ethics.
This is not part of our grounding foundation.
What are we trying to conserve here?
And that type of thing, I think, has more of a value to general society than any other single thing men could be doing.
Yeah, I mean...
Hold on.
I've got a question for you, bro, because I've been listening this whole time.
I believe you're on the right track here, 100%.
But I also come from a Christian background.
I believe what you're saying is true, 100%.
Only the issue here is that, like, the church itself is not at a fault, you know?
I think the church itself is wayward.
It's gone all the way left.
Now, granted, how do you fix the issue at hand?
It starts with the Church.
But the Pope himself, other pastors that are funded by the government themselves, are all to the left.
How do you fix that?
I'll explain.
You are correct.
Especially in Catholicism, this is true.
But you know what's interesting about the Catholic Church, and I'm an Orthodox myself, not Catholic.
But what's interesting is you have, for the first time in an organization that I've seen, which is involved in politics, you have top-down instead of bottom-up corruption.
Usually it's corruption from the bottom, which goes up to the top, and then the top stays corrupt, right?
In this case, a lot of Catholics are base, man.
I mean, they're pretty awesome.
They're the grounding foundation of Catholicism.
They're the money-givers.
They're the tithers.
They're the people who are making the Catholic Church possible to begin with.
And it's like, it's really easy to go to those people and say, stop tithing.
Stop tithing if they're going to go towards this type of agenda.
Stop feeding the money to them.
That's how you get at Catholicism, because the bottom's not corrupt.
The top is corrupt.
You can go for the clergy and the clergy can vote with their wallet.
And man, if you starve an institution of money, what happens?
Right.
That's what they do to creators.
Right.
They don't like what you say.
They starve you of money and that shuts you up.
And it's the same thing with any organization.
It's the same thing within orthodoxy.
It's the same thing within Protestantism.
Cut off the money supply until they reform to what they're supposed to be.
And it's like the Catholic Church much harder because the corruption does go up to the top, in my opinion.
OK, but still the grounding foundation of most Catholics.
They're pretty awesome.
Most of them pretty awesome people.
And it's like, I don't think it would take too much to begin to push them to say, stop tithing that way until, you know, some of this stuff goes by the wayside.
Who are they going to follow?
You or the Pope?
Well, they're going to follow the Pope for the most part, but some of them are so frustrated with what's going on with papal authority or papal authority that I don't think it would take much, right?
I'm not saying that one man's going to be able to push the whole tide.
What I'm saying is that you can begin at least to do your own part to move people towards that.
I'm not saying one guy's going to be able to do it.
That's absurd.
Those single people have been able to do things like this in the past.
I think that everybody moving towards, just towards it in their own way, trying their hardest in their own way to move towards that, that's how you see things get done.
I like that.
I would just say though, tell me if you understand this phrase, right will be wrong, wrong will be right in these times.
Right will be wrong and wrong will be right.
Yeah.
So, but that's all times.
But even more so now.
Well, more so than when.
So if you look at history, I mean, if we're going to get into theology, right, everything that is to come to pass has already come to pass.
Yes.
Right?
Yes.
Could be way worse in 100 years, and it may have been way worse 200 years ago, right?
Ultimately, I'm not going to look at it, though, and say, hey, we're in the end times right this second, so I'm just going to throw in the towel and throw my hat on the couch, and I'm done.
No, I'm going to still act within the ethical purview of which I've been given, and I'm going to, if Jesus comes tomorrow, right, and it was all for nothing, then it was all for something.
So that's the way I see it.
I like it.
Good man.
I mean, you did say it's a multi-generational thing.
Yeah, it's going to take a while.
I think the way things are now, us being in a secular society, etc.
And I know you disagree with me on the 50 body count, which is totally fine.
I think that's important for you to be able to have a conversation with people that you disagree with.
I think it's...
I think it's a viable strategy given the environment that we're in now with the way women are, with the way the Marriage Institute is set up in the United States, with the state being involved, etc.
And let's be honest, most guys are not going to get married through a religious counterpart that's going to protect them and not incentivize the woman.
Because most women nowadays are like, if I'm going to get married, I need a marriage certificate.
I need all this stuff.
I mean, hell, you can't even tell a girl nowadays that you want a prenup without issues, right?
So it's like...
I think knowing that most guys are going to get married through the state, it's like, alright, you're going to go through this route, then you need to be prepared.
Because I think it's the most important boxing match of your life you need to train.
Because that girl's definitely been training when she was going through college and being at the 304 and smashing dudes and all this other stuff.
Which goes back...
I was going to ask you about this, actually.
I wrote this down.
Sure.
You have a very strong...
You don't like egalitarianism.
No.
Right?
And feminism, etc.
Which I agree with you.
I think it brings a lot of inherent problems, which is why we're even having this conversation right now with how should men move nowadays, right?
And, you know, I think, obviously, feminism is what's caused a lot of this.
What's your...
I guess...
I'll just let you...
I'll just turn it to you and you tell us what your issues are with it.
Sure.
So, feminism starts with a flawed assumption that egalitarianism is even possible.
And that equity is even possible.
It is not.
It's actually illogical.
Egalitarianism is illogical.
Men and women have a very different ontology.
The basis of what they are is different.
But they also have another glaring problem, which is force.
Men are always going to have a monopoly on force.
Therefore, women's rights can only come from men.
That's the only way it's actually possible is through the enforcement arm.
So when women say we want an egalitarian, voluntary society, they're actually relying on force of men in order to take care of those laws inside of that society for their egalitarianism.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Is done by men such as yourself and others who have the monopoly on force.
So egalitarianism from the ground up is a flawed concept immediately.
Feminism, right, has been taking the last 200 years to subvert this concept and say instead, no, no, no, we're interchangeable widgets.
Women can do everything that men can do, except basically everything men can do.
Their bone structure, their body, everything's completely different.
Just having women, most women, just working outside, right?
Their actual physiology can't take it.
They have trouble with heat regulation.
They have trouble with all sorts of things.
They actually can't do a lot of those jobs.
Not all women.
There's plenty of outliers who can, but not enough.
Yeah.
And I think that's the key right there.
That's right.
Not enough.
Not enough can do it where we can sustain society.
But most men can.
Yeah.
That's the thing that's funny, is it's not outliers with men, it's most.
And I'm talking most men.
Even big, fat, obese dudes.
Yeah.
Right?
I see them working on road crews, and they're hauling shit, right?
They are paving roads.
They're still doing it.
Yeah.
Okay?
I am not...
You know, the Helgas of the world, right?
They're working in office spaces for a reason.
They actually can't do it.
Yeah.
So all of the modernity that they enjoy is basically created by men.
And that's the only reason that they even have a leg to stand on for any egalitarian claims to begin with is because we've built the society from which they make the claims.
We built the microphones they're speaking into from which to make those claims.
And then on top of that, protect their pampered asses at night while they're at home sleeping.
And they go, but I'm just as good as it is.
It's ridiculous.
Egalitarianism is actually, logically, and any feminist, any feminist hearing this, whoever wants to debate on egalitarianism, I welcome it.
Don't care how high-profile you are, I'll go right into your studio, wherever you are, and completely eviscerate you on it.
There is no such thing.
It's a complete and total lie.
There's a book you should read.
My wife wrote it.
It's called Occult Feminism.
I brought a copy, actually, for both of you.
I'll bring them to you next show.
Phenomenal.
Traces all the roots of feminism right to its core.
It's all based on these flawed presuppositions that men and women are interchangeable widgets, and 90% of the problems you see in society can be traced back to this idea.
You know, it's interesting.
So that's my rant.
I've said a bunch of that a bunch of times when talking to women.
And, you know, people get angry at me.
I've taken a stance.
I've said, I genuinely think a woman's vote should be 50% of a man's.
Whoa!
Holy crap!
What are you talking about?
And I'm like, well, it's because of all the things you just listed.
Yeah.
Men are the ones that are predominantly in the military, in the police force, etc.
Like, we're the enforcers at the end of the day to give you and protect the rights that you talk about.
So it's like, you know, and then the other thing too...
Is that a lot of them aren't in, like, infrastructure jobs that keep the country going.
I think you should only vote if you have skin in the game in the military draft.
You don't have to vote in the military draft.
That's how it used to be.
It used to be you had to have skin in the game.
Now, you know, there's hundreds of ways to do this besides property ownership.
You can do single household voting.
Only married couples can vote.
And so now you and your wife vote.
It's for the whole household.
Right?
That's a really good way to curb that.
There's another way to curb that, too.
You can do selective service voting.
You give six years of your life to the state unpaid, and now you have the right to vote.
Yeah.
Right?
That's skin in the game.
You don't have to make it based around...
You don't even have to take women out.
Because what'll happen...
Yeah, they gotta have skin in the game.
Government employee, your military service, etc.
I'm like, okay, then you can get a full vote.
Sure.
But if, like, you're just a chick on fucking OnlyFans, dude.
Right.
No way.
Or you're, like, one of these chicks that's like...
Yeah.
So how about this for the age gap argument, right?
If the 40-year-old is taking advantage of this poor 19-year-old girl, then why can she negate his 40-year-old vote?
If he is that superior to her that he can just instantly manipulate her, tell me why it is that she can nullify his vote.
That makes no sense and is the dumbest thing that I've ever heard in my life, right?
So you can mitigate it via household voting.
Also, the trick is if you were to do like six years selective service where you weren't paid for it, but then you could vote, right?
You'd have high status in your community.
I very much doubt that most women would do that.
Hell no.
Very much doubt it.
No, they wouldn't.
And so, yeah, there's ways to mitigate this.
Would you say that the reason why we've had incompetent leaders for so long in the United States is because of them voting?
Yeah, women vote always for self-interest security.
Yeah.
Self-interest security.
And they don't care.
Thank God someone said it, man.
It's insane.
You'll be out crazy when I say this shit.
No, women are Democrats and Democrat progressives.
Are scumbags and they're evil.
From my perspective, utilitarian Democrats, they're all utilitarians by the way, they're all fundamentally hedonistically evil.
And women push the Democrat vote like no other.
And you know why?
Because it's nice and socially acceptable.
I want to be accepted.
I want everybody to accept that I am part of the socially acceptable group.
They don't ever want to be part of the non-socially acceptable group.
They want to be part of the whole.
And so it's very unpopular.
Now, if right-wingers, if that was considered the popular thing, the in-crowd thing, that was the thing everybody was doing, they'd all vote Republican.
But it ain't.
And they move towards the Democrat vote.
And the reason is, man, they really offer up a lot of security for women at the expense of men.
But working class men, what are they all doing?
They're all voting for Republicans.
They're all voting, hey, stop taking my money.
Hey, this sucks.
Hey, I'd like to drive down the road that's actually paved.
Instead of pothole filled, you know, with, why don't we put two more lanes?
Looks like we could put two more lanes?
You know what I mean?
They vote with risk.
They don't mind taking some risk.
Women?
No risk.
Yeah, yeah.
And I mean, when you look at it, like, they're just...
It's interesting how our biology even determines how we vote.
It's like, oh, wait, you're going to give us loan forgiveness and handouts and stuff?
Yeah, you know what, I'll vote this way.
And yeah, man, they want the security.
And a lot of the times, Democrats sell them that security, even though they don't get it.
They don't really get it.
They put it on a platter for them.
Yeah, it's how they got the black vote too.
How the Democrats got the black vote was by selling security too.
Bribery.
So it's a bunch of bullshit, man.
That's your pocket minions, the black vote.
What are they doing right now?
Think about this.
I'll give you a really good...
We'll read chats here in a bit, guys.
Get them in now while you can and we'll read them here in a second.
I'll give you one of the most fantastic kind of arguments on this.
If they ever say, now we know health security.
Just look at abortion.
Just look at abortion.
Women want the right to abort for security.
Agreed.
That's it.
That's the only reason they want it, right?
I don't want to be laid down with this little thing that's going to take 18 years of my life that I have to support and mother and blah blah blah blah blah.
What are Democrats pushing?
We want a woman's right to choose.
Women need to be able to choose.
Women need to be able to abort.
But that's a security push.
And that's all it is.
And that is how it's being pushed.
If they take away your right to choose, what happens to your security?
Why?
You wouldn't just be able to have promiscuous sex with no consequences anymore, right?
That's not security.
Yeah.
But that's a great example right this second that you can point to and say, look, other than for security, right, why would this be being pushed?
Yeah.
Because that's the way women see it.
You know, it's interesting because when I look at women that vote on the right, nine out of ten times, it's either A, they're married.
They're married.
Or B, they're married.
They are aligning with what their father or their brother taught them.
Nine out of ten times when they do that.
But when they're like super blue, it's like, okay, single mom or didn't have a father in the household.
There's like no strong masculine presence a lot of times.
Well, you know, a lot of times, and let's never take this out of the equation, they simply don't think about it at all.
That too.
The cool thing to do is vote for Biden.
Yeah, they simply never even bothered thinking about it.
And when you put them to the question and you watch your entire ideology crumble from a single question, you go, how did you never think about that ever in your life?
You went and destroyed my vote.
You wrecked my vote.
You wrecked my brother's vote, my father's vote.
You know what I mean?
That's what you did.
You guys never even thought about this.
They don't care.
Not for one second.
Yeah.
So, I agree with you that there's got to be skin in the game.
I think, you know, for women that obviously are in the military, civil service, in government, etc., they have some skin in the game?
Absolutely, your vote should be the same.
But, let's be honest, man, the majority of these chicks, like, I don't think an OnlyFans chick's vote should be equal to a man's vote.
Fuck no.
Or a sex worker, any of these chicks.
Because they don't have skin in the game.
They don't have to go to the draft!
You know how you win them over?
What?
TikTok.
Listen, if you don't vote for our side, it's going to be banned.
They want it.
Women are highly susceptible to propaganda.
If we can put ourselves in positions to be dealing in that propaganda, we can be dealing in the positions to influence women.
That's why advertisers target them.
That's right.
That was what I was going to say.
If you can advertise towards women the alternative message, they'll go for it.
Look at July.
That's how they got them all smoking.
I always use this example, right?
So it's like...
The example I always use a lot of times just to show like how much they control the marketplace.
Gillette did an ad, right?
Back in like 2018, 2019.
This is years ago now, right?
They're feeling the consequences of it now.
But where they said toxic masculinity, right?
And they just shit on men for like a couple minutes, right?
Like men are shitty, blah, blah, blah, whatever.
And they did that, right?
To target...
Females.
But think to yourself, wait, hold on.
Men's razors?
This is a company for men.
Why the fuck are they going to the opposite gender?
That's like the equivalent to like, Victoria's Secret said like, stop being toxic bitches.
And they just had a bunch of...
Men.
You know, OF chicks.
No, like, OF chicks being 304s and finessing dudes and divorcing them and taking their money.
Like, could you imagine outrage if, like, Victoria's Secret did that and, like, made, like, a men's empowerment type commercial and said, you stupid whores need to do better.
There wouldn't be one.
Like, they'd be done.
They'd be shit on.
But Gillette does that.
They have the gall to do that.
And they go after their...
They shit on their target audience.
But then in my head, it hit me.
Oh, why?
Because when you're an advertiser, you need to market to women.
Even at the expense of your target audience.
If that doesn't prove that the propaganda machine is always going to push the females, I don't know what else proves.
You're going to ostracize the people buying your shit!
Look at what happened with Budweiser.
Yeah.
You know?
Yeah.
It's the same type of thing.
Men were not into that message at all.
Yeah.
Right?
That was a very social justice style message with Mulvaney.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
Big L. It was a huge L, right?
Huge L. But who was coming out supporting it and calling you a bigot and evil?
Yeah.
Bunch of women.
Yeah.
I can't believe you.
Myron, how could you?
Yeah.
You're terrible.
You know what I mean?
And it's like, what did you do?
Yeah.
It's wild.
And it's like, the fact that advertisers are willing to take the risk and alienate The people that buy their shit to go ahead and appease females, it proves that we live in a gynocentric society.
And the advertisers know this.
You look at the Super Bowl commercials.
Literally, we were just in Vegas.
You look at the Super Bowl commercials.
They were all targeted towards females.
Patrick mentioned with companies ESG scores.
It is a losing battle for money, but at the same time, keep relevant and stay in these circles.
You've got to play the game on their level.
Yeah, it's just crazy to me.
In my head, who was at the Bud Light meeting?
Like, you know what, man?
That's a good idea.
Let's go ahead and shit on the guys that drink this shit, right?
Which are, let's be honest, it's gonna be guys like you, Andrew, right?
Well, it was a female.
I used to like it.
I used to like it, right?
Guys that drink Bud Light typically are American guys between 18 all the way up into the 50s that are like, America, like all that stuff.
And you're going to go ahead and just say, let me put this fucking dude in here.
Yeah, but who came up with it?
A woman.
It was a woman.
It was.
It was a woman.
It was.
She came up with the entire marketing strategy.
And, you know, there was and there's no escaping that that's true, that it's all gynocentric based.
Yeah.
Right.
But I think Gillette's commercial was run by a female.
Yeah.
But look, I mean, one thing that was kind of nice was the Christian base, the Christian base of the nation.
They boycotted Budweiser.
They boycotted them.
All of them.
And it worked.
And they were like, wait a second.
We have some power here that we forgot we had.
And that was nice to see.
And it's like, you know, that kind of pushback, I'd like to see more of it.
And there's been a bunch of...
I just wish, like...
Because the problem is...
I mean, I said this earlier, but it's like...
The libs, man, they're just so much louder than the conservative people.
It's a silent majority, though.
If you're on X, right, and you look at someone post some stupid woke bullshit, the comments are like, you're a fucking idiot, stupid, blah, blah, blah, etc.
But it's like, where are these people?
In real life, they're not the ones demonstrating and doing peaceful protests.
But what gets on the news?
The fucking liberals going crazy in Minneapolis.
It's just that they have more camp time.
They control the media.
They're in the media more.
They have another advantage that is often not thought about.
Mentally ill people are entertaining.
Mentally ill people, they're super fun to watch.
And progressives all over the internet who are highly mentally ill, right?
They're fun to watch and laugh at and, you know, make fun of and this kind of thing.
Conservatives come on.
We haven't had a good conservative voice like Rush Limbaugh, right, come around, like, you know, that kind of once-in-a-generation voice who's super entertaining and informative in, you know, the whole package deal.
It's harder because they have to go work, right?
Right.
Being highly entertaining, as you know, it's a skill all in itself.
And most on our side, a lot of them don't have it because they're not emotionally unstable lunatics.
What's going to get more views?
That's right.
A feminist in red hair screaming like, ah!
Or a guy eloquently explaining the difference between men and women biologically.
Well, people are going to go ahead and look at the feminist go, ah!
You're right.
I share them myself.
I share them.
I'm not immune.
I'm like, man, look at this crazy bitch.
Look at this shit this chick is doing.
And my buddy will send it back and go, what the fuck?
And it goes viral.
But it is entertaining, and mentally ill people are entertaining, and the left is filled to the brim with them.
I mean, it's just overloaded.
They brag about their mental illness.
Oh yeah, they love it.
I've seen my psychiatrist and psychologist eight times this week, you know what I mean?
They love it.
They're all on something that's crazy.
Remember when like, maybe I'm showing my age with this one, but remember it used to be like negative to go see a shrink?
Yeah.
Do they even call them shrinks anymore?
It used to be like, wait, you went to go see a psychiatrist?
What the fuck is wrong with you, pussy?
Well now they're all bragging about their degrees.
I have a degree in sociology.
They all, by the way, have a degree in sociology.
I haven't met one yet that doesn't have a degree in sociology.
They love it.
They think it's great because they think it's a form of manipulation.
They think that they're going to school to learn how to manipulate people and their emotions and their machinations better.
That's why they do it.
That's why that's appealing to women to move towards sociological fields.
That's why you see them move towards it because it's a subtle form of manipulation.
You got pastors sending people that are married to a psychiatrist.
That's crazy.
That is crazy.
That's crazy, bro.
Yeah, but some of those pastors are also letting two men get married in their church.
That is true.
That to me is like, what?
What is this?
It's sad, bro.
What is this?
That is wild.
No, I mean, it's really an interesting time to be alive, isn't it?
Yeah.
Because it's like, we're old enough to remember...
I shouldn't exist right now.
I should be in a factory.
You know what I mean?
There's like...
The fact that there's so many more coming, right?
They're just tired of it, dude.
It used to be shameful to say, I'm going to go see my psychiatrist or I'm going to go see a therapist or something.
It used to be like, what the fuck is wrong with you, dude?
Man up, bitch.
What's wrong with you?
But now it's like a flex.
What's that fucking drug that people use to relax?
I'm on Xanax.
We used to make fun of people.
I remember we used to make fun of kids.
Wait, you take Ritalin?
Fuck wrong with you.
We used to laugh at people for that shit.
Or you need Adderall to focus?
You're an idiot.
We used to roast people for that shit.
Now it's like, I'll just pop it like candy.
There's a whole...
And it's interesting because it's infiltrated the music.
If you look at hip-hop in the 90s, Verbal, lyrical, things made sense, so telling you a fuckin' story, listening to like, I don't even listen to Slick Rick, but I can acknowledge the fact that he was like a good rapper, right?
He was like telling you a fuckin' story and shit.
Like, Cool Mo D, all these guys, right?
Up until Jay-Z, et cetera.
Then we get into the late 2000s, 2010s, et cetera.
Then you start getting people mumble rapping, not making sense.
I'm on drugs, et cetera.
And you're like, what the fuck is going on here?
And as the drug use became more apparent in the music, and people are just open about it, now you got guys flexing.
Like, yeah, I'm on some Xanax right now.
The regular guys flexing that shit.
I'm like, what the fuck?
I remember growing up as a kid, if you even said that you smoked weed, we'd kind of be like, what do you do?
You fiend, you're a loser.
But I don't know, man.
It's like cool to be a druggy nowadays.
It's crazy to me.
It's completely opposite.
Well, my dad, like I said, product of the 40s, you know?
He said he was going to say, what are you, a nut?
Yeah.
What are you, a nut?
What are you going to strike for?
Are you crazy?
Right?
That's how they saw it.
Yeah.
And you know what's so interesting?
Why is mental illness so much higher now?
Like, here's a good thought process for you to think about.
If you look at the kind of trans agenda where they say, one of the reasons we need to affirm these genders is because if we do not affirm these genders, right, these people could do self-harm, right?
How come if there's just as many trans now as there were, why weren't they doing self-harm?
Because it's cool to do it now?
I don't know.
Interesting point.
Why is it that you didn't see all this self-harm in the 50s and the 40s when nobody could affirm their gender?
That's really weird because they claim there's just as many then as there are now.
Well, that's weird.
If that's the case, where's the body count, right?
Where's it at?
Nowhere.
Right?
Mental illness has become a trend and a social contagion.
And that is a single manifestation of that social contagion, but there are many.
I agree with you, man.
It's cool now to say...
And let's be honest.
Nowadays, the whole psychology board is run by women.
They strip Jordan Peterson of his psychology credentials.
And it's like...
They'll prescribe you whatever.
It's like, oh, you feel like you have issues with focusing, or you feel like you're crazy?
Cool, let's just give you these fucking drugs.
And then, you know, I don't even want to get into the pharmaceutical industry, but it's like they're incentivized to tell you that you're crazy, right, so that they can make some money on it.
Well, who are pharmaceuticals going to advertise to who are the most prone to being advertised to?
Hmm.
And so then you see who happens to be on all those drugs and the antipsychotics and the antidepressants and all of this.
Well, same demographic who suffers from a way higher rate somehow than men do, even though men are the ones going through things which cause PTSD and they're going through wars and they're going through all this stuff, but somehow the mental illness is still higher on that side.
Kind of weird.
Kind of makes you think, well, maybe they are marketing something towards a population demographic which is prone to propaganda.
Yeah.
And wait, hold on.
And they make money from giving these drugs out?
They do!
Wait!
Gajillions, right?
What?
What the fuck?
Hold on!
No way!
Yeah.
Wow.
That's a good trend, though.
Crazy, bro.
And you guys see the fucking circle.
We just brought her all the way around, man.
Yeah.
Social shame is important.
Because I remember, you're going to go see a fucking shrink?
What's wrong with you?
Yeah, you're fucking crazy.
They used to call it a shrink.
Do people even use that term anymore?
I haven't heard it.
A shrink?
It's considered a bad word, probably.
Yeah, yeah.
But he been spending the whole night, though.
Yeah, man.
I was listening like, on point, bro.
Love it.
All right.
Okay, what do we got here?
All right.
Legato.
Legato goes, Andrew, the...
Man, I need my glasses.
Humanoid typhoon, Wilson, it's the top G of debates.
Good to see him on Fresh and Fit.
Good to see you too, man.
Thank you so much for that.
$100.
Thank you so much for supporting this show.
Oh, sorry.
As you know, this particular show, which people really enjoy, has not been treated very fair by some of the companies which are out there.
So showing your support is always a good thing.
By the way, they have a badass studio here.
They gave me the tour when I came in.
It's pretty sweet.
Thank you, brother.
Appreciate that, man.
What do we got here?
Reloading.
They're almost out.
They're going crazy.
I can see.
They're saying, please talk about a topic.
Okay.
Andrew, I think the argument for FNF position is that women are better at hiding their intents.
Therefore, to experience up to 50 women is a way to see past their intent.
Yeah, I think Andrew understands.
He's on our perspective on that.
Yeah.
So, again, from the secular perspective...
And, you know, we could probably argue about this for an hour, but from the secular perspective, I understand why this push exists, right?
I just see some flaws with the entailments of the push, and so we kind of have some grounding disagreements.
But I'm not saying that it's not a strategy which is viable that could work, but it depends on the ends.
And I think me and Myron only really have this fundamental disagreement on what we want the end to be.
I think I agree that we both should have a family.
I think ultimately guys should have a family.
I agree with you on that.
You shouldn't be running around banging girls forever.
You should definitely have a family at some point.
I think we're just discussing secular and religion-based ideas.
I mean, if you're a religious guy, then yeah, don't take my advice.
You probably shouldn't.
You'll get in trouble with your religion.
I called in and asked for your advice when he's a Christian.
I was like, bro, what are you doing?
But to your point, though, the end does not always justify the means.
Well, might makes, but it doesn't make right.
There you go.
But it makes.
It sure makes.
Let's go with it.
Everybody's here?
All right, cool.
Martin's talking about something like the Logan Paul situation, also about the religious reproduction, the religious are producing a lot of secular children.
That's actually a good point.
I mean, yeah, like Logan Paul, getting with that chick, that's a good example of it.
And I'll respond to it.
It's true that you can, if you have five children, have two of them end up being secular.
You still have three that aren't.
Yeah, of course.
Yeah, yeah.
Were you raised with that?
Yeah, yeah.
That's why.
And doesn't that still, to this day, kind of guide your intuitions and your morals?
You know what I mean?
Of course.
It's always a framework in things that I operate in, you know?
I mean, the story of the prodigal son.
Yeah, exactly.
That's the idea here.
And that's most of our story, right?
Most of us seem to have that story.
Yeah.
Okay, what else do we got here?
He's a bonfire.
He goes, evening gents, vasectomies are a giant conspiracy to weaken men.
The birth control aspect is just a bait.
Warn your sons, don't believe the shills and massive PR campaign with false stats.
Awesome.
Yes.
He goes, two, with a vasectomy, you're still shooting loads inside your own body, but it can't exit.
This creates an autoimmune disease that silently poisons you for life.
Reversals are not cheap.
Matrix attack.
Boom.
To everyone who said I have donated to FNF, though never have, here it is, to support the Bloodsport Debater.
Great content to make while you visit Miami, Mr.
Wilson, FNF. I was the bell-tie guy from SauceCast.
Oh, yeah.
Well, Crucible Crew, too, if you're listening, make sure you come on over and donate heavily.
These gentlemen were nice enough to invite me down.
And we're going to get into some tangling a little bit later, I'm told.
Some girls.
Looking forward to it.
We got you.
Let's see, what do we got here?
Okay, ask him about the book his wife Rachel wrote about occult feminism and see if he will return with her for another podcast.
Yes, he did mention that earlier.
These chats came in way earlier, but yes.
And yeah, definitely going to take a look at it.
And then we got here, Sly Burner, 20 bucks, appreciate that, bro.
And then Uncle Luke says, there's only one Christian faith that I know takes marriage seriously and actually hold women accountable and shame them in front of the congregation.
That's Jehovah Witnesses.
They disfellow people, disfellowship people.
Yeah, so that would be a great example of a consequence, right?
A community consequence.
Hey, you're messing up, and so we're actually gonna publicly shame you for that.
Shame is a very powerful tool.
It is.
It's worked in all cultures and all religions.
Don't do it.
I've seen that once you announce to the world that you're married without doing a ceremony, the woman can still take your money.
The community idea is nice, but it's not above the law.
Well, that's true.
It's not.
But the social shame is above the law.
And so this is the key.
The key in is that you're trying to modify the behavior, not necessarily create some new legalese.
We want to eliminate the legalese that's causing men the problem to begin with.
We're trying to build the community which will push the social behavior which is desired in women.
And men.
That's the point.
Fair enough.
Now Lily goes, Christians have a hard time defining promiscuous body count number.
However, the Bible tells us with the woman at the well.
Okay.
What else do we got?
Anything else?
He made the chick get him a drink of water, too, by the way.
I just wanted to point that out.
Jesus was thirsty, and he said, go get me a drink of water, and she did.
Okay, I wasn't aware.
WFNF recently went from 169 kilos to 103 kilos, threw 40 kilos off myself, then got gastric sleeve surgery, still going strong.
Also started lifting weights at home.
Love from Denmark.
Shout out to you, bro.
Shout out to you, bro.
Drunky.
W. Myron Slippers, I appreciate that.
You know, Goku is, you know, even though I think Vegeta's superior, but we're doing it for Akira.
What?
You think Vegeta's superior to Goku?
I think so, man.
He's a better character.
Obviously, Goku is stronger, right, because he's the fucking main person, but I think Vegeta's cooler.
But he went soft.
Vegeta?
Yeah, he went soft.
He married Boma, and he got soft.
Yeah, Boma 304.
Yeah, Boma 304.
Totally.
That was his only fuck up.
That was his only fuck up, man.
Not Kakarot, though.
Right?
Kakarot.
She had 304, too, though.
But he's never home.
She was only ever with him.
He's never home.
Hang on.
He grew up together.
He was always dead, man.
That nigga was a terrible dad.
He's dead.
Yeah.
Oh, you got a kid?
Base Hawaiian.
W for FNF for having Base Wilson on.
Shout out to you.
And then, Gordzilla goes, Hi guys, thanks for the show, Andrew.
Shout out to you, bro.
Shout out to you, bro.
And then, Legato says, Andrew, we did that one already.
We did that one?
Caught up, right?
Charging.
Charging.
Last one.
20...
Is this the last one?
No, it's...
Okay.
Okay.
Rumble?
Alright, cool.
20 verse 1 was fire idea.
It would be good to put guests through it, especially the over-the-top ones like organic and Zerco.
Only a matter of time till pocket.
Oh, God.
Okay, big guy.
Yeah, okay.
Yeah, we got it.
Alright.
I disagree.
Value is something you give yourself.
It's a simple economic value.
It's dependent on the market, which is our case, is women.
Men have been using women as a showcase of value all throughout history.
If market is the only...
from the human experience, then you're going to have to give Ho's value.
Because, obviously, there's a market for him.
Yeah, he's trying to, okay.
That was from what we were saying from before.
Red Pill saying, only 3% of virgins on their wedding day.
That's true.
A high majority of men won't marry virgins, so them being virgins is a fairy tale.
Wishful, happy ending scenario.
Many men are involuntary virgins and claim religion is co-for being unwanted.
2024 and not 1950, sadly.
Let's assume for a second that that's true.
Wouldn't you want him to have some type of support network to cope too?
Alright.
If the argument is that hoes do not add value and that value develops independently, then it stands to reason that adding hoes into a high-value man's life inherently threatens that man's value through unwanted pregnancy, false essay, exageration, fuckery, etc.
That's a really good point.
Yeah, that's what I was saying.
That's precisely why you need to identify the women that can do that to you.
Yeah, however, if you're talking about value in and of itself, if that is adding to the value by you doing that, then you have to assign value to the hoe.
Wait, no, no, no.
Did he say it adds value?
No, no.
So his argument is to say, wait a second, if it's true that it's going to teach you all of these things, then the argument that a hoe does not add value doesn't even make sense, right?
They would have to add value because it's teaching you how to identify women from being able to do this thing to you, the high-value man.
My stance is you're a high-value guy regardless of your notch count.
You can be a high-value guy and be a virgin, is what I'm saying.
But for you to be able to navigate the dating marketplace appropriately, you need to have experience with women.
Now, if we're going to attribute that as value as well, I guess we can.
But I would say it's not value that you can...
It's not value that's assigned to the value that that man independently made, if that makes sense.
You're right.
So I get what you're saying.
You're saying it's high value either way.
Yeah.
But if this is really teaching you all of those skills, right, then those hoes got to have some value.
They're clearly bringing some value because the more of them...
Okay, I see your perspective.
You getting with them is...
Okay, okay.
I get what you're saying now.
Okay, I see that perspective.
Ray says, let's be honest.
Most of these girls are...
Or is that they are not going back.
They are addicted to attention on TikTok and Instagram.
This is not the ancient times.
You must adapt.
Minority of men will always pipe majority of women.
Red pill is reality.
You know, here's the thing, guys.
He agrees with that.
And he even said before, if we're going to stay on the secular path...
Then that makes sense.
But what he's saying is that, and correct me if I'm wrong here, is a whole wide religious adaptation that would curb this, and you predict it would be somewhere in the next 60 to 100 years, I'm assuming, three generations?
Three generations, and it's something we should push towards, if you want to see that kind of change happen in society.
Everybody wants it to be a cheeseburger society.
We want it right now.
But religion, I mean...
Just to make the cannons originally, it took a long time.
These things take a long time, but you shouldn't be discouraged.
You should make it a mission.
All right.
JLB Fitness.
Hey, Fresh Afraid.
I'm working on a YouTube channel called JLB Fitness.
I've been making exercise videos since last November.
Do you have any recommendations on more videos I can make?
I'm also out of...
I'm almost out of ideas.
Pierce delivery videos.
Keep it up.
I'm going to keep it a thousand with you, bro.
Fitness YouTube is dead.
It is a dead niche and genre, my friend.
You can only vlog so much on your workouts and your macro eating.
It's a dead genre, bro.
If you look at all the biggest fitness influencers, they've all switched over to lifestyle and or challenges or whatever the hell it may be nowadays.
So try to add another sub-niche with your fitness niche.
But doing straight workout videos and stuff like that, dude, that's dead.
It's not 2013 anymore.
Just being honest with you.
Pimp Rogers.
There's a couple genres like this that died.
Fitness and pranks.
Yeah, pranks too.
Both died in the same time.
Atheists here.
Pimp Rogers.
Atheists here.
How about we exempt parents from paying a property tax to fund public schools and let parents use that money to send their kids to the private religious schools of their choice?
Yeah, so that would be school choice, which is a fantastic idea.
It's broadly opposed by, you guessed it, Democrats and progressives.
Vivek actually was saying this.
Mostly because, why?
Females are the teachers.
Right?
Females are the teachers.
And so, yeah, it's broadly opposed, and yes, we should push back as much as possible on that.
Yeah.
No, I mean, I agree.
I mean, the public school system is fucked, man.
It's ridiculous.
Um...
In Thursday, men need protection from women, kids need protection from single moms, and women need protection from themselves.
The Real Dank Williams says, Andrew, you're awesome, but Montclair is nowhere near Sacramento.
Montclair is in Southern California.
I didn't remember where it was.
I grew up in Joshua Tree.
I was just born in Montclair.
Ah, okay.
Okay, caught up.
We got one more rumble right here.
Okay, what's the last one?
We have here, Mr.
Reed says, Want to show love to Andrew Wilson and fresh and fit.
You guys are amazing and I hope to see Andrew on here more often.
Yeah, man, you're going to see him here.
He'll be back on Friday as well, guys.
And tonight with some girls.
Yes, he's going to be on with some girls.
We're going to actually segue to that here in a second.
We're caught up?
Everyone's here.
Yeah.
Locals.
Amar, what are your thoughts about Trump Media and the Technology Group Corp, DJT stock?
I'm one and invest 5K to this because I think it will explode if Trump becomes president.
There isn't much financial information for this company, so it's a gamble to invest in a stock.
Do you think it's worth a gamble?
This is what I'll tell you, bro, when it comes to investing in stocks or crypto or anything that might be volatile like that.
Invest whatever you're willing to lose.
That's the best advice I can give you.
I'm not going to tell you to do it or not, but just put money in where if you lose it, you wouldn't care because you don't want to be emotionally tied to it.
That's it.
Cool.
Guys, we're going to be back with Andrew Wilson and some lovely ladies.
Andrew, where can I find you, brother?
Yeah, you can find me at the one and only Crucible on YouTube.
Make sure that if you want any of the back content, you want to go to thecruciblevideo.live.
That's thecruciblevideo.live.
Become a member over there.
If you want to see the backlog, there's going to be tons more added to it, including the great TikTok invasions that we do.
Hope to see all of you there.
Boom.
Perfect.
Cool.
So we'll catch you guys back here in...
I don't know.
10.30.
You think so?
Yeah, because of course, yeah.
Chris here?
10-30.
Alright.
Alright, let's go.
Yeah, I know we said we were going to start earlier this week, guys.
Next week.
Next week, I guess.
Hopefully.
Yeah.
And as far as the 20 vs.
1, guys, we'll do it again.
Like I said before, we had some other...
I think someone else was doing it in town at the same time.
And then on top of that, also, it was right after Ultra Weekend, bro.
So, like, all these chicks are hungover and shit, man.
Like...
It is what it is.
It is what it is, man.
But we're going to definitely do another one for y'all, man, and we're going to make it better.
But we definitely got your feedback, and we're going to make it way better, hotter girls, and it'll be more interesting.
And guests.
And guests, too, and we're going to add some guests to it, too.
It's going to be a good time.
We'll catch you guys.
Peace.
I ran, I ran so far away.
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