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April 28, 2025 - Epoch Times
22:46
Mikki Willis: How Human Beings Lost Touch With Nature and the Divine
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When we follow the science, we got harmed, and now Facebook won't even let us have a group where we can talk to each other?
What is happening here in this country?
We have made this film to give them a voice.
In this episode, I sit down with Mickey Willis, an award-winning filmmaker and producer of the Plandemic series.
We discuss his new film, Follow the Silenced.
The game we're playing as citizens is a very different game than it's being played by the policymakers.
We also discuss Willis' views on spirituality.
And now human beings have become disconnected from what Willis says is the brilliance of nature and also from their divine intelligence.
And after 30-some-odd years working in Hollywood, I saw a lot of people that I will say most definitely came in with a soul and left without one, incrementally giving away a little piece of themselves.
This is American Thought Leaders, and I'm Jan Jekielek.
Mickey Willis, such a pleasure to have you back on American Thought Leaders.
Thanks.
Nice to be here.
Mickey, we live in a very divided society.
It's incredibly obvious, and you have a pretty unique way of looking at this that you've recently written about.
Tell me about that.
This being the crisis that we're all in together here?
Well, I think one thing that— Most people know me as a filmmaker, and really my life's work has just been a fascination with people.
And really through anthropology and ontological studies of just really discovering what really makes us tick and why do we do what we do.
That was all just out of a curiosity to figure out who and what the heck I am.
And what I noticed though is that a lot of the stuff that's occurring in the world...
Is going to continue to occur as long as we resist taking responsibility for the ways that we've participated in it.
And there is, as we've all seen, a real concerted effort to divide the people.
Because united we stand and divided we fall.
Those words were spoken 2,600 years ago, and they stand just as powerful today as they did then.
And the people that want us divided know that that's the case, that if they can keep us fighting with ideological warfare, with just these new social trends, if they can keep all this stuff in the media to where we're obsessing on all of these things,
they matter, but they don't matter as much as the energetics that are keeping us in this cycle.
And what I mean by that is the core agenda is to, in some way, disempower the human soul, this thing we call our soul.
I use it interchangeably with the spirit.
In 2008, I had a profound experience.
I was driving down a single-lane country road, and there was a dead bird in the road, flat, and I had to drive around it.
Drove down the road.
This voice spoke to me, and this voice has spoken to me many times.
Today I will call it God, but for many, many years I resisted, even considering that that's what it could be.
But this voice said to me, "The bird's not dead."
And I said, "Oh, the bird was clearly dead.
Flat on the road, it's dead."
And I kept driving, and it just kept saying, "The bird is not dead."
Until I got so frustrated, I put my brakes on, I backed up.
And I looked at the bird, and sure enough, it was alive.
It's lying there, flattened out on the ground, but looking up at me with its little black eye.
And it amazed me, because I thought, what was that intelligence that knew something that was contrary to what I believed?
So I took this bird off to the side of the road.
And because of that kind of mystical experience that I just had, I kind of felt this unexpected infinity towards this bird.
So I said, I'm going to say a prayer for this little bird, Blue Jay.
And as I was saying a prayer for this bird, and it was in its last moments, there were power lines above, and I figured out, okay, that's what happened.
It got electrocuted.
I just, my eyes started to tunnel onto this little bird's glossy black eye.
And the physical world disappeared.
It reminded me very much later when I saw the movie The Matrix, and they stood in that white room, and as Morpheus explained to Neo, all the truth of the universe, everything disappeared, and it was just white.
And this bird is kind of floating in this white void.
And I couldn't look away from it, and I couldn't blink.
My eyes were watering, but it was just this tunnel vision, and I knew I had to maintain my focus on this bird.
And in a moment, this...
This glossy, animated window into the soul of this bird just went flat.
And I knew in that moment that I'd actually seen the life force of this bird leave.
And it changed me in such a way to realize there really is something there that animates this bird.
But what was crazy in that moment, Jan, is that hundreds, if not thousands, of ants The moment that eye went flat, they charged in and enveloped this bird.
Not one of them approached this bird until its life force left.
And I just stood there and I looked at this and I was like amazed.
I'm like, God, that's fascinated by the brilliance of nature and how this orchestrated itself with these little ants that we just write off as these meaningless little insects.
But they were so aware of the life force of this bird and in some way weighted almost honorably.
Until it was time to approach it.
And so since then, I've been just pondering on this idea of like, what is this thing we call our soul?
Then COVID shows up and I thought, what is the push here?
Why are they pushing so hard to put something into the bloodstream of humans?
It felt like an experiment of some sort.
It's one of the reasons we acted so fast to release Plandemic One May 4th of 2020, because I knew I could fill it in my heart.
And I knew Anthony Fauci's history.
Bad things happen when bad people are in charge, so something bad is about to happen.
We've heard the fables as a storyteller, as somebody who studied mythologies for 35 years, the work of Joseph Campbell.
There's always some kind of underlying message about the life force of the hero, the soul of the hero.
And that's what the dragon was ultimately trying to capture.
Not just trying to kill the physical body, but it's the soul.
Anything that has to do with the supernatural or the devil or whatever, it's always about the human soul.
Then we have the fables of the devil and the crossroads of meeting the devil and signing away for fame and fortune and whatever it might be, giving a piece of your soul.
And after 30 some odd years...
Working in Hollywood, I saw a lot of people that I will say most definitely came in with a soul and left without one.
Incrementally giving away a little piece of themselves.
Not their physical body, they're all intact.
But when we say that they're giving a piece of yourself away, what is it that you're really giving away?
The technocrats are trying so hard to bring us into this stage of transhumanism.
And they've succeeded.
In outpacing the human mind already.
AI is far more intelligent than it will ever be.
But they cannot measure, duplicate, emulate in any way the human soul.
It's become a real problem.
And I believe more and more that the reason, the value of this thing we call soul, spirit, is that it in some way is our umbilical cord.
Our connection to divine intelligence.
All of the birds and everything outside this building right now, all the insects, the birds chirp in the morning.
Few people even really stop to even listen to that anymore.
Like, why do the birds chirp in the morning?
Do you know they actually trigger the plant life to open up and to pollinate and it triggers the insects to come in and spread that pollination?
There's a whole orchestration that happens every single day right outside our bedroom windows.
And so what is it that's informing the birds?
What informs the birds when they're in that murmuration stage of flying thousands, moving on a dime as one body?
How is it?
It's not an audible cue that they're following.
They're tapped into something that us humans have been severed from that leaves us unable to flow with such grace with each other.
So instead we're bumping into each other and harming each other.
And so for me, that's kind of the core of what I'm interested in right now.
So you think this is the root of the division among people, I guess, but people would say, well, it's actually a lot simpler than that, right?
It's just politics.
Some people would like to have less government, and some people are perfectly happy to have a lot of government and want to put their trust there.
Why make this so complicated, Mickey?
Well, see, we wouldn't need government.
If we were connected with this divine intelligence that I'm talking about, it's only when we're severed from that, then we suddenly need someone to lead us.
I would say the metaphor I like to use is once upon a time, we all received our first PCs and they sat on our desk and they could only do whatever was programmed on the hard drive.
You might be able to put a little floppy in and give it a new word program or whatever.
But other than that, it was limited.
It was a closed circuit.
And then I believe, A lot of our inventions, maybe all of our inventions, are us trying to figure out ourselves, our deeper purpose on how these bodies actually engage with this universe and this world that we live on and live in.
And so I believe we create something like the Internet to understand what we're capable of.
So we create the Internet, and now that little useless paperweight on our desk becomes a supercomputer.
Because it doesn't matter what's on it.
It just has to receive now.
So it dials up.
In the beginning, you know, the dial-up was slow and crazy.
We look back on it now, and it would take forever just to get that online connection.
But I think that over time, we've perfected that now that our little phones and everything are just these supercomputers with infinite intelligence that we can pick up.
We're about to learn what we've been severed from.
If we go back in time and we look at the ancients and their ancestors and the indigenous cultures...
We always look upon them as realizing they were somehow connected to nature more than we were.
They could hear when the buffalo were coming, or they listened to the ground and the water and the trees, and they were in communication with nature.
And we have systemically and by design been severed from our nature.
Mickey, just one quick sec.
We're going to take a break, and we'll be right back, folks.
And we're back with Mickey Willis.
Executive producer of Follow the Silenced.
Well, tell me about Follow the Silenced.
So about four, over four years ago now, Steve Kirsch, who's become very well known in the freedom vaccine movement because he was a very wealthy entrepreneur who invented things like the optical mouse, right?
And so he's known as kind of a legend for innovation.
And he was very, very, very pro-vaccine, fiercely.
And the way he tells the story is his carpet cleaner didn't show up.
And that was rare for this particular carpet cleaner.
And when he finally did show up, he said, I'm really sorry.
He said, my wife and I, I guess his face is ticking or whatever.
And he's like, we have this condition going on.
And he said, what?
How is it that you both could have a new condition?
Was this predatory or did you?
No, it just happened to both of us.
And he said, that's not.
What did you do recently?
And he said, well, it was right after the vaccine.
That's when Steve went, what?
He's fully vaccinated.
And he started to dig into it.
And then he called me a little over four years ago and he said, are you tracking all the injuries that are happening here?
Because they're being buried.
No one will listen to them.
And apparently there's a bunch of people who did all the trials, AstraZeneca.
Moderna and Pfizer.
And they know that they're injured.
And they had all the people that were doing the trials.
Some of them are in wheelchairs and breathing through tracheotomy instruments.
And I said, yeah, I'm getting a lot of those messages too.
I don't know what's going on there.
And he said, he goes, I'll kick in a little bit of money if you want to investigate this.
And so I said, okay, let's go.
So we started that four years ago.
And we've been on this film.
Without stop for four years.
We thought it'd be released in one year.
But it's perfect that it's coming out right now because quite honestly, I don't think people would even have paid attention to it three years ago.
It would have been written off as just another conspiracy theory.
But there's too many people now and people in powerful positions who have experienced their own myocarditis or whatever it is.
And so we took the film on.
I hired...
One of my top directors in my company, because I was already committed at the time I was making The Great Awakening, so I said I'm pretty tapped out as a director.
The Great Awakening is very complex, and I have a lot of research to do, but I will oversee it as kind of an executive director, and I'll bring Matthew Guthrie in, my top guy, and we'll do this thing justice.
And so here we are four years later.
It's a beautiful, powerful documentary.
Tragic.
But also very inspiring because it turns out to be a story of this group that formed that now call themselves React 19. I'm not going to give up.
I mean, it was hard.
Imagine being so trusting that they were excited to be the first in line.
And then they're confined to a wheelchair and they're having spasms and seizures and nonverbal, whatever it is.
And then when they speak out about it, then they're...
Then the establishment tells everyone they're just a bunch of crazy people.
It's all in their head.
That's pretty much what all of them are told.
They have the same exact story that everyone just said.
It's in your head.
You're crazy.
And so they found each other.
Hundreds of them.
Thousands of them came together.
And then those Facebook groups and everything they formed would be shut down.
And they couldn't understand it.
Like, we're victims of this situation.
We follow the science.
We got harmed.
And now Facebook won't even let us have a group where we can talk to each other?
What is happening here in this country?
And so we have made this film to give them a voice and to make sure that their story and their sacrifice doesn't go unnoticed and that it's serious and that we understand moving forward.
As a people, that it's probably not a good idea to ever succumb to anything experimental that could do us permanent damage.
I just want to say gratitude to the Santa Monica Film Festival, who's been very supportive of our work.
The Great Awakening won last year, and they've asked us to come back with the film this year.
And they chose to...
It premiered at the Director's Guild of America, which is pretty amazing because it's right in the belly of the beast in West Hollywood.
But we needed a bigger theater than they could find in Santa Monica because there's such anticipation for this film.
REACT-19, I know, has actually helped so many people, helped support so many people that have had these injuries.
Fully volunteer-driven, it's actually quite a remarkable organization.
It is, yeah.
With really, truly incredible people.
The way that they've supported each other.
I tell you, I think many of them wouldn't be here with us today if it weren't for this organization.
I think 80% of them said in their interviews that at some point they had all reached a point where they felt that death was an easier life than dealing with the injuries that they were dealing with.
But when they met each other, that all changed.
They talked each other off the ledge and said, no, life is worth fighting for.
And, you know, some of them have improved.
Some of them have not.
Some of them have gotten worse and probably will continue to do so and probably have a reduced lifespan as a result of this.
Not everyone has been injured, but that's the danger of when we start treating medicine as a one-size-fits-all situation.
It's got to be very personalized, and we have to understand how everybody responds.
Particularly to new technologies that have never been injected into the bloodstream in this way before.
It was very, very reckless.
And as you've had on your show many times, one of my dear friends, Robert Malone, as one of the inventors of mRNA technology, will say that's something that he never imagined they would have done with this thing that he was one of the inventors of.
It shouldn't have been done.
Right.
At the level of development that it existed at.
Yeah, that's right.
Going back to this crisis of meaning that you've been outlining and that we've, I guess, been dancing around in this discussion, I think one of the things that was common to many of the people that I talked to that came through these last few years whole,
where they had this type of connection with God, but they found newfound meaning, many of them found newfound meaning through the difficult circumstances that they were placed in along the way.
I want to make it clear that everyone has a different purpose.
And that purpose might be just raising children.
And that purpose can also take place wherever you are.
I met a woman who worked in a bank and she goes, "I can't do anything until I get out of this bank."
I said, "What do you want to do?"
She goes, "I just want to make people happy.
Make them happy."
Start doing it right there at your job.
Don't just treat it as I'm just going to take their transaction, give them boom, boom, and they're gone and it's another person moving through.
Make that human connection with them.
Let's come back into that natural way of being where we actually look into each other's eyes and give each other a moment.
And sometimes doing that thing we don't want to do.
Like I always tell my boys, I go, okay, I've had 12 hours of editing today.
It's 8.30 at night.
I'm going to the gym.
Do you think I want to go to the gym?
They go, no.
I said, but that's the difference of I don't let my life be ruled by just what I want and don't want.
It is very uncomfortable for me right now.
And the thought of, after this long day, driving 20 minutes to the gym and lifting heavy weights is the opposite of what I want to do right now.
But I'm disciplined in my commitment to being healthy.
So that overrides.
My addiction to making excuses to find a backdoor to my commitments.
And so when you make those personal commitments, live by them.
Stay strong, but particularly to yourself.
Because that then becomes strength.
In 2008, I was building a digital distribution platform for independent movies.
And I was studying user interface, user experience.
And I was very fascinated by it.
You know, where all the buttons go and what colors they are and what causes people to click and to be engaged and what loses them.
Too many clicks and they go away.
And right during that time, Facebook changed their awesome button to a like button.
I remember thinking that is so counter to everything I'm learning right now.
What an odd choice that the biggest platform in the world would make.
I think it's a bad choice.
Why would they do that?
I could never understand it until 2020.
Because the thing that got me was I was this guy that was really liked by a lot of people.
And suddenly my likes are going...
And I went, oh, they know how to manipulate us.
We are all addicted to likes now.
All these creators are self-censoring because they're looking like, oh, when I talk about that subject, I get downvoted.
When I talk about that, I get upvoted.
So they start to self-censor based upon...
How much they're liked.
And what was really driving the pain that I was experiencing, my fear of telling the truth, was I may not be liked anymore.
There's going to be half this world, half this country for sure, that's not going to like me.
And as a man who spent way too much time trying to be liked, that was a painful thought.
And the moment I let that go, I just realized that's part of the mind control.
That's part of the trick.
Where now, that's the dopamine hit.
I gotta like.
Dopamine.
Gotta like dopamine.
I gotta downvote.
Decrease in dopamine.
I care about the amount of views our films get because I see it as, well, that's impacting more people.
But not of self-worth.
This modern world is conditioned to make us care so much about what others think about us.
And while we should, while we should be good people and moral people and kind people and loving people and courteous and all these good things, not to the point of where it's now shaping Pulling us away from being honest and saying what needs to be said.
I'm the friend that will say things to my friends and like everyone's talking behind their back.
I think Bill's drinking too much.
Everyone's saying, I notice every party he gets drunk, whatever.
And I'm the one that says, Bill, I think you're drinking too much.
Let's talk.
And it's not that hard.
Some people get mad.
They get defensive, but they come back later and go, hey.
You're the first one actually called me on that.
Yeah, you're right.
I'm in AA right now.
I had a problem.
I didn't want to see it.
Thank you.
Well, Mickey Willis, it's such a pleasure to have had you on.
Thank you.
Always great to be here.
Thank you all for joining Mickey Willis and me on this episode of American Thought Leaders.
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