John Warner IV and Dark Journalist dissect the "Age of Disclosure" project, alleging a Department of Defense psyop involving James Clapper and Chris Mellon masks advanced neutrino tracking and antimatter tech. They critique reckless AI deployment, fear quantum weaponization by adversaries, and condemn Marco Rubio as a disclosure roadblock. Warner recounts his grandfather Paul Mellon witnessing a disc aircraft at Skoda Works in 1945, arguing that current secrecy strangles the nation while 70% of history remains wrong, demanding an ontological shock to reveal higher-dimensional truths. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, WAV2VEC2_ASR_BASE_960H, sat-12l-sm, script v26.04.01, and large-v3-turbo
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The American UFO Threat Operation00:05:37
Hello, everyone.
This is Dark Journalist.
Tonight, I have a very special, exclusive interview with cutting edge author and researcher John W. Warner, the fourth.
John exploded the UFO threat operation being run by intelligence agencies right here on the Dark Journalist Show four years ago.
Tonight, he's back to expose the CIA big budget Age of Disclosure documentary featuring a cadre of spooks like disgraced former DNI James Clapper.
and counterintelligence agents like Lou Elizondo.
John is the son of the late Senator from Virginia John Warner, a majestic UFO file member, and Mellon banking heiress Catherine Mellon.
John has shown dedication to transparency even about the Mellon family and the involvement of his great-grandfather and Secretary of the Treasury Andrew Mellon and grandfather Paul Mellon in the secrecy of the UFO file.
John has challenged his cousin, DoD intel official Chris Mellon, to come clean on the UFO threat operation.
The most important disclosure episode on the real UFO file is coming your way.
Please join us now.
John, it's great to have you back with us.
It is excellent to be back.
I want to get into this with you through this angle, which is there's kind of a personal element here as well, which is when you hear about these things, it's not very often that your actual family is involved on some level.
So I want to get into that with you and just come to the point of Chris Mellon.
And when you first came out in 2021, the level of discouragement that you were getting from these people about don't.
Do this, don't go out there, don't talk about these things.
And, you know, the kind of hitting the roof that hit a pitch about a year ago with Chris Mellon trying to call you online and, you know, this whole charge of things and them trying to protect the grush op and all these things.
When you look at that, you think of somebody like Chris, who's your cousin, who you know very well, who's enmeshed in that DOD effort of a UFO threat.
What is their objective and what is it that they're trying to do?
In the middle of all this, launching the age of disclosure and bringing on the threat so that they can basically create this UFO defense grid.
Well, they already have defense grids and technology.
The Ice Cube project is neutrino tracking for the entire solar system, maybe beyond.
Yeah.
This whole thing, like we've got to put up a defense against UFOs, we've been working on that for 65 years.
I'm sure we have a basic protection plan for the United States, at least.
I've heard that the Space Force is the Coast Guard for Earth.
The US Navy does the patrolling of the solar system.
But beyond that, it's perhaps the US military and also corporations doing their own commerce work.
That's already in place.
Yeah, everyone wants to mine the moon and all this stuff.
But we have to be careful.
I don't want to add to the UFO gossip column.
I just want you to tell it straight.
For me, Age of Disclosure is coming out.
Mellon's right in the heart of it.
He's been pushing hard.
He's been engaged in all these things.
He's publicly spoken against you in public.
I want to give you the same chance to just respond honestly.
Well, I was very disappointed in him.
He became very petty and low on a public forum.
It was a private forum, but you're on it and others.
Really?
Yeah.
That's the level of maturity when the human race is really at the precipice, you know?
And all this stuff, you know, he.
I won't bore your audience, but it was very low and petty and personal.
And if that's all you've got, wow, you need help.
I'm sorry.
If he's blaming me or everyone else for his father and brother's untimely deaths, well, sorry.
I like Matthew Mellon.
He was a great guy.
My sister was best friends with him.
So this guy, Chris, we're all got a screw loose, but Chris has got multiple screws loose.
That's not good.
For a guy who's wielding his weight around.
If I had a message for him, I'd say, think of the American people first.
Forget me, forget everyone in the disclosure movement, forget Greer, you, you naughty fake journalist, you, Daniel, that he calls you.
Forget all that.
Keep your mind on the American people and what they deserve.
They deserve the truth who they are, where they came from, what's going on, who's in charge, what our technology level is.
Thousands of years advanced, more advanced than the public sector.
Everyone says 500.
They've got a clear cube with a tiny microscopic bubble of antimatter in it that can power anything.
Wow.
Come on.
We're using other people's technology we reverse engineered or we have received as gifts, trade items.
Incredible.
That is tens of thousands of years ahead of the public sector.
We're burning oil in our cars.
Truth About Our Advanced Technology00:07:02
It's silly.
You know, think of the American people and not protecting corporations and, you know, getting janky, dumb Congress people involved.
You know, it's a terrible operation.
Their operation is deceitful, it's low, and it has no redeeming value because you're messing with people's minds.
Right.
Okay, nothing new.
I get it.
CIA, DIA, NRO, everyone's messing with perception management.
Exactly.
You know, but it's falling apart.
It started 30 years ago with the internet, and it's only accelerating.
You can't put toothpaste back in the tube.
You can't control a narrative you never had control of in the first place.
This is what it is.
And they're afraid of losing that control of that narrative.
And yet, these fragile egos, people like Chris Mellon at the helm of that, trying to direct the whistleblowers, you know, and directing people, telling people like Grush where to go and what to do, so much so that it imploded anything that he had to say.
So, this is the danger of that kind of runaway system with the CIA taking the role of arbiter and like they're the ones who are going to give us this truth.
This is the most absurd thing for them to be in charge of the UFO file, which has nothing to do.
You know, they're trying to create a new human origin story, but they won't give us the truth that they have on the UFO file.
Of course, they will.
No, they'll wrap it up with some sort of strange Christian lore, which is an affront to the Christian church, by the by.
Yes.
You're going to mix more lies in it.
You know, religion has a lot of good wisdom, philosophy, and some good history.
It's hard to discern, it's difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff, but, you know, they're going to make it worse.
And, you know, Rubio's part of this new film and everything.
I mean, that's a huge stumbling block.
It's disturbing, isn't it?
For people in DC like me who are getting together with other people, trying to move past, you know, yes, we have to be mindful of religious people.
And that's why I told you my idea.
I wrote that out as a memo.
Yes.
It can work.
Yes, there'll be people that will freak out.
Yes, there will be consternation.
Yes, there'll be everything.
But it's been 50 years too late.
They should have disclosed 50, 60 years ago.
They didn't.
Oh, wow.
And down the road.
And now that can is rusted through and they can't kick it anymore.
It's really disintegrating.
So it doesn't matter if they've got an iron, you know, grid disclosure narrative, you know, with rules and can't talk about this and can't talk about that and everything.
That's going to fall apart on its own.
It's going to rust away.
Right.
Don't mention beings anymore.
Just talk about.
Threats in the sky, and you know, yeah, you know, all this stuff.
You're bringing it back actually to the 1960s.
Well, that's what they're trying to do.
They're trying, I'll give them credit, 70s big deal.
All we had were books and magazines and a few scant films in the 70s, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Not much, but the word got out and got out in the 50s, 60s, and everything like in the 80s, a little more video, VHS, you know, more stuff on television, alien bodies being dissected, other things, which was also disinformation.
You know, the X Files were good.
The X Files were good.
But yes, in people's mind, that's fantasy.
That's Hollywood bullshit.
The truth is over here.
No, it's they've mucked it all up.
I'm not saying Hollywood is all bad.
They've given us a lot of movies with a lot of truth, I think.
We can all discern it for ourselves, what we think is true or not.
That's good to warm up the public, but they've been warming up the public since 1949 with films.
Okay, Buck Rogers in the 30s.
Right, right.
Yeah.
Well, there's a surge here of.
Counterintelligence forces hijacking the entire narrative, especially since 2017.
Go back to 2016, Chris Mellon's up there.
You know, he's been involved deeply with covering up everything at Area 51.
And he says, There's nothing, we don't have any alien anything.
The government's never worked on redesigning UFOs.
What are you talking about?
One year later, we have to get that alien truth, John.
We need it.
Yeah.
Obviously, somebody went in there and said, We need you on this team now.
You go out and run a counterintelligence narrative to create a UFO threat.
So, my question really is.
The military?
Probably the military?
Probably the military, yes.
If I had to guess, just the impetus was like, well, wait a minute.
Make it a threat because that's something Americans do understand.
Right.
It's an easy sell offense.
It's something people understand.
But Gary Nolan admitted that they were selling it as a threat at the previous Seoul conference.
And of course, he's been working with the CIA.
For over a decade.
And he's close friends with Dr. Fauci.
So, you know, you're getting Fauci CIA counterintelligence disclosure.
What is that?
Nothing good.
But there is a growing number of people who are not happy with that.
Yeah.
You know of Colonel Nell.
I know other people around town.
This is a big area, Northern Virginia.
It's got Ashburn and Dulles area.
It looks like Silicon Valley now.
You've got all these big box stores.
It's, you know, the.
Server farms and things like that.
Well, some of it's for Amazon and FedEx, but what's the other half for?
But the people around are like, they hoped it worked.
It didn't.
Eight years and counting, and it's just a snooze fest.
Yeah.
It is.
Big budget CIA and Hollywood, Spielberg notwithstanding.
I don't care if you throw a billion dollars at it.
It's like baking a pie or something, you're only doing the crust.
Oh, excellent point.
Well, we have this excellent Oreo crust.
It's just a crust.
There's no filling.
There's no toppings.
There's no Jimmies and sprinkles, interdimensional sprinkles.
They won't go anywhere.
Well, they love the dangle, right?
Oh, you might get more truth.
Oh, maybe I can tell you in a skiff, John.
Yeah, which is not secure.
A skiff is not secure.
Nowhere is secure.
You're dealing with surveillance technology that is quantum.
Quantum entanglement.
You can pick up the phone and call somebody in the Andromeda galaxy, and they'll wake up and say, What do you want?
And it's like they're in the room next door.
Why Disclosure Is Not Secure00:16:17
Wow.
Entanglement.
You don't need a skiff.
They can listen into anything.
Everyone's like, Well, I got to put my phone in the microwave.
You know, I'm like, Come on.
Reconnaissance is like, you know, the bottom of the ocean.
The surveillance is everywhere.
Yeah.
We just had the two veterans, the wounded veteran hunts here.
And I talked to two group members on the USS John Warner.
Oh, wow.
A submarine.
And they said, Oh, there's a secure room there where only the captain can listen.
And I said, Buddy, there's nowhere on planet Earth secure because of quantum technologies.
Wow.
And people are like, Oh, I got to talk to you in a skiff.
If they say that, they're an idiot.
Wow.
I mean, yes, there's a lot of people around town who think they're secure, they're not.
And to be fair, Greer said that years and years ago.
He did.
I don't know if he mentioned quantum technologies, but he said they can, you know, there's nowhere to hide.
Right.
Right.
Yeah.
I like to give people credit when, you know, there are a lot of people going around that they parrot other people.
I always want to give Farrell or Greer or you or anybody credit because that's important.
Oh, yeah.
You know, if I say something, the source of it.
Yes.
I'm not sure, but, you know, at least it gives people.
The field has an incredible bastardization.
Plagiarization problem right now because you have all the pop click podcasts and all the money behind it.
Peter Thiel pouring money into the space to hijack the UFO thing for his weird antichrist.
That's religion.
Yeah.
That's religion.
And, you know, that can be part of disclosure, but it can't be the main focus.
Right.
Because faith is important.
I believe in the Constitution, religious freedom, freedom for religion, freedom from religion.
Right.
That's what this country was founded on.
But to try to make it a religious thing, to either maybe Peter Thiel has good intentions.
He wants to soften the blow to religious people.
I understand that, and I do.
But you can only soften the blow of this mega cannonball so much.
It's going to punch through a wall.
But what if it's even more cynical than that, John?
What if they just want to?
Think of it from a more cynical thing with Thiel, just for a moment.
What if he's doing this because he's had those groups in the background and the marketing grids, and he's figured out if I can get the Christians on board with my UFO thing, then I can hijack the entire space?
Well, I mean, I work with people who are, you know, have religious faith, Christians.
You know, that's not a question.
And I don't know if he speaks for the church.
I don't see why he would.
You can get religious leaders involved, but, you know, that's fine.
But, um, How knowledgeable are they going to be with the whole thing?
There's very few.
I've never seen a religious leader come on and talk about the secret space program or something.
It's not their.
No, they're kept siloed away from these types of things.
Exactly.
That's one type of power structure.
But I have noticed this with Teal, and I think of it in a very cynical fashion because I think that he's going into that thing and sending out his investors, suddenly becoming.
UFO documentary makers, or whatever, you know, and he's got all of his feelers and his people out there.
The way I look at it with Teal is he's trying to create the ultimate UFO psyop by doing that.
Yeah, it's if you're doing a psyop, whether good intentions or not, that's not, I don't think that's helpful in my opinion.
Second of all, documentaries are not helping that much, they're good.
It's good to have them on Netflix, Amazon Prime, other streaming, Hulu, whatever.
I mean, the age of disclosure, if you look it up on Amazon, it's and you look up, you type in UFO documentary, there's like 30 or 40 of them.
Right.
Right.
They're going to get lost in the shuffle.
I think Graham Hancock's alternative history ones did well.
I'm glad of that.
But there's a billion choices on these streaming channels, and they're just becoming more and more choices.
And so it just seems to me more and more diluted.
This is my only problem with it when they come in, because what you're getting are these marketing groups and these intelligence groups, and they're grabbing the issues, spitting them back out.
But in many cases, the truth gets more and more diluted.
So you're missing potency.
And potency is really where this whole field comes from because they're kind of imitating the grassroots with the astroturfing with this stuff, but their purposes are either cynical or they're ill informed.
That's what we're seeing the majority, whether it's podcast, pop click land, or it's, you know, the Netflix type thing.
Yeah.
It is.
I always tell people it's like the Mekong River.
They can't stop the river or divert its flow, they can sure have it.
Yes.
Right.
Where are you going to find that giant catfish, you know, in all that mud?
More mud, more mud, more mud.
And so that is an excellent tactic, intelligence tactic, muddy the waters.
But at a certain point, the river is going to overflow, as rivers do, as the Mekong does, you know, and it's just going to spill over the banks.
And all that mud is going to be left in fields and things like that.
That's a good analogy for what's going to happen.
People are, at some point, people are going to be left with all this mud around them.
They're going to be like, what the heck? Is going on.
And it's already happening that way.
But to gain people's attention, good luck.
I mean, I'll say it a million times.
I mean, I have friends who are federal judges, friends in the military, and everything.
If you're not interested in this topic, you're just not interested.
John, we have more important things to do than talk about UFOs because it's not about UFOs, it's about human history, our interaction with star people and star nations and war.
And survival and genetics and everything.
Excellent point.
That's a lot of stuff for the average person to take on board.
I'll say it a million times the public is our biggest obstacle.
Excellent point.
You can make all the documentaries you want.
You can't make a horse drink.
You can lead him to water.
I don't care how thirsty the damn horse is.
Well, the first thing you have to do is stop lying to it.
I guess that would be number one.
Even if they told everyone the truth tomorrow.
How many would believe it?
Yeah, but part of that is only because they've lied so much in the past.
Yes.
Fire, liar, pants on fire.
I mean, yeah.
Well, we have.
I know that.
And his group are very frustrated.
Yeah.
They thought, why isn't the public listening to us?
Why are we getting so much flack from the disclosure people?
We're your heroes, you know, and the arrogance of ignorance and intellectual arrogance is palpable in that group.
You know, you're not going to get Timber Chet and Gillibrand and Marco Rubio.
He's a good Secretary of State.
I'll give him that.
But I know he's religious.
And, you know, these aren't the people that can take in the big picture.
They just want a simple black and white picture threat, attack, defend.
That's all you need to know, John Q. Public, Jane Q. Public.
You know, you don't need to know the details.
You just need to know they're a threat.
And there are threats, there's threats on earth.
There's always been threats.
It's a very convoluted thing.
They're trying to make it simple and black and white and make people scared and concerned.
And it's unconscionable.
Yeah.
You know, without doing, you know, the huge amount of work and research and study and reading books and learning to discern truth or trying to, we're all trying to discern truth from nonsense.
You know, I mean, disclosure is going to be a mess no matter how you slice that pie.
It's going to be a mess.
Yeah.
Eye is going to hit the fan.
Wow.
It's not going to follow everybody.
Yeah.
The more they do this, the more worse it's going to get.
The best way to smash the op, as it were, of the threat op, age of disclosure, Clapper disclosure, so I call it Clapper Spielberg disclosure.
What do you think is the best way to smash the op of that marketing machine, the Intel, CIA, NGA push into this, you know, figures from the NSA, all of that, and the Hollywood edge?
How do you, from an independent media point of view, get to the truth?
Even if it's a lone outpost, whatever it is, how do you sort of hit at that vulnerable point in that Death Star?
Well, first of all, we don't have to do anything.
They're self destructing.
Wow.
They really are.
Yeah.
Because the public is bored with that.
They'd rather go to a documentary on, you know, alien wars and, you know, all kinds of creatures and monsters and things like that because it's interesting.
And a lot of people hate the secret space program narrative and the people involved.
So, why is that any different from what people were talking about 30, 40 years ago?
It's not.
Yeah.
They used to call them the Roswell nutjobs.
I remember that in the 80s.
They're like, oh, you're one of those Roswell believers.
The secret space program is probably one of the most important additions to this entire lexicon you could get.
We have a secret space program.
Now, what the truth is of it, we're still figuring it out.
But that doesn't mean like I urge people, they're like, oh, well, those people are crazy.
And it's like, really?
How do you know?
Right.
Because even people in the disclosure movement tend to have some cognitive dissonance.
Yeah.
Oh, I believe Stephen Greer, but that's it.
Right.
No one else.
And it's like, well, that's a good narrative, but that's not the whole picture.
You know, there's a lot of other thugs.
Right.
It's got a lot of problems.
And they're like, well, I believe in the pyramids and UFOs, but not Atlantis or a pre Diluvian high civilization.
I don't believe in that.
And so people have a tendency to do triage.
And it's just like they take one slice of it that they can sort of handle and then they throw the rest away.
But in answer to your question, I don't care if you have Spielberg doing 100 films, there's 100 science fiction UFO films out there, hundreds, thousands.
Yeah.
How's this going to be any different?
Spielberg's CIA.
He's compromised.
I've always known that.
He wouldn't have gotten Reagan's approval to show it in the White House.
He wouldn't have gotten approval to do close encounters at all.
But the 70s was a different time.
There's a lot more disclosure in the film than they probably wanted.
And today, you could never do something with that much truth.
No way.
Not in my opinion.
No.
And so their whole operation is going to self implode as is.
Most people just.
They're like, Oh, have you seen Spielberg's new UFO film?
And they're like, No, I'm sort of watching a series on Netflix.
I can't be bothered.
I'll wait till it's on Netflix and maybe I'll watch it with Star Trek and everything else.
And so they can throw billions at this, but that whole CIA intelligence disclosure world initiative, I don't care if you bring Spielberg in, all the movie stars, I don't care if you wrap everyone in celebrities, it's still boring.
Ooh, a tic tac.
Ooh.
I saw a light sky and I don't know what it was.
Right.
Childish grade intel, and it's still boring.
I don't care how much money you throw at it.
You know, the average science fiction film or series on Netflix or something is much more interesting, even though people say, well, that's just fiction.
Well, they want the public on a fifth grader level with this.
They don't want them on their level.
They just want them to understand enough about it where they can create.
Something like a UFO defense office where they can let out some of that technology under this umbrella that they're great and that the reason that they kept the money and the missing trillions that went out the back door was because they were defending us from a threat from space.
Yeah.
If you ask me, and I thought about this, and it's always been there.
And of course, my family's been involved.
My great grandfather, Andrew Mellon, had dealings with the Nazis and Sullivan and Cromwell and Wall Street.
You know, it's all dirty, nasty stuff.
But that's life.
I mean, we all have duality.
We got to deal with it.
The money aspect.
Yes.
Yeah.
Nobody gives a hoot in hell about aliens coming in a mothership or whatever.
Or, you know, we've got a hold of toys at Area 51 in a museum.
Nobody cares about that.
They're going to care about where their money went and their parents' money and their grandparents' money and their great grandparents' money.
Right.
And then they got sold products back that they had to pay for all over again.
They're going to care about that someday.
Whoops.
Yeah, I don't give a shit about UFOs.
What?
They stole my money?
Yeah, the money.
Folks, you've been ripped off.
Wow.
Now we have weapons that we're going to blow up the world, and everyone's paid for it.
You know, unwittingly.
Oh, we've reverse engineered millions of flying saucers.
We've got all kinds of laser guns.
Great, with all our taxpayer dollars.
You know, people go hungry in this country.
Wow.
Wow.
Ridiculous.
You can't, even if you're Elon Musk, you really can't help people.
You can't help poor people.
You can try.
He can set up a foundation and help some communities with food banks, whatever, if he uses money to do that.
He probably won't.
But eventually it'll get corrupt and it'll all get funneled back to the deep state.
Like everything else.
People have to understand how the game is rigged all over the world, it's not just here.
We may have the lion's share of skullduggery and technology and things like that, but it's everywhere.
It's not the indigenous people in Borneo and the Amazon, although the Yanomamo tribe now uses cell phones.
Kind of sad.
Oh.
Everyone's affected.
I don't think there's an indigenous tribe that isn't affected by technology now, which is very sad.
You're bringing up something really important here.
I just want to dial into this a little bit.
If you were to take that black budget, Aspect and the UFO file, how much of that missing trillion aspect goes directly into the redevelopment and testing of the UFO file in relation to the secret space program?
You mean all the gear and technology?
Yeah.
Oh, all of it.
Yeah.
It's the lion's share in any case.
Let's just speculate.
Grays Patrol The Solar System00:04:36
I mean, I really do think the U.S. Navy has very, very large and long spacecraft patrolling the solar system, at least.
Have we gone through wormholes?
Probably.
Yeah, I believe that.
Yeah.
To build a ship like that takes trillions.
It just does.
Imagine the technology, the Star Trek level of USS Enterprise technology to do that.
Right.
You've got to have shields, you've got to have electromagnetic, you've got to have some sort of temporal.
Time shift drive.
You've got to have quantum computing on a huge level to coordinate your places in space.
You're bouncing around the cosmos.
Yeah, that's a huge expense.
Yes.
Some things have become cheaper over the years because we're not back engineering that much anymore.
We're probably just, oh, we've done that.
We'll just build it bigger with bigger guns and things like that.
But it's hugely expensive.
New technologies, metamaterials, graphene, nano technologies out the yin yang.
A little bit is filtered into the public sector, your carbon fiber bicycle helmet.
But I mean, it's to do that.
I mean, our engineers, we all got to wave the American flag.
And so you guys did an amazing job.
Some of it's not used.
I'm sure corporations, like Michael Herrera described, they use it for their own personal benefit.
UAVs and technology to move nefarious money making opportunities, get them done around the planet and elsewhere.
If you've got a UAV that's, according to Michael Herrera, and I believe him, I met him, if you've got a UAV and you're moving people and drugs and gear and resources and I don't know, spices, whatever you want, by UAV to some other place on Earth, you can easily do that to the solar system and beyond.
We're trading with everyone out there.
We probably already always have since Atlantis.
You know, where do many species of plants and animals come from?
It's like, ooh, that purple donkey looks nice.
What do you want for it?
I'll take 100 tons of cocoa beans, you know, and we get this amazing, you know, there's always been this trade.
I'm convinced of it.
It's just, you know, Sumeria must have been awash in trade.
John, we're going to the moon.
Bazaars.
Yeah, wouldn't you say it's sort of an open joke, the whole idea, for example, of us going to the moon with Artemis and all the rest of it?
I mean, they've been there for the past, you know, how many, 55 years in between the last manned mission?
I mean, they're already there.
It's ridiculous.
I mean, I'm writing it now in my fourth book.
I mean, they're going around the moon, and it looks like Paris at New Year's, the dark side of the moon.
Yeah.
You know, people that's more like it, yeah.
I'm so suspicious about the moon.
I'm like, how many other moons in our solar system are in the visible moons that we can discern?
How many are in tidal lock with a planet?
None, just ours.
Oops, just lucky, I guess.
You know, come on.
I mean, a lot of this is just common sense.
Artemis will give us a mission to the moon in 2027.
Come on, yeah.
I mean, we've never left the moon.
Excellent point.
I agree 100%.
Have human beings visited moon bases from ET star nations throughout history?
You bet they have.
Who's the first man on the moon?
Probably a woman, you know, half a million years ago.
Yeah.
You know, I mean, it's ridiculous.
We're sort of way beyond all this stuff, but unfortunately, a lot of people are still stuck in the 1980s and they're like, well, something happened in New Mexico, but I don't know what it is.
Well, the Germans and the Grays were there, and Barney and Biddy Hill saw an SS officer, and it starts to sound even more batty and crazy.
So, our biggest hurdle is.
Stick to the Grays, right?
What are you going to do with the deer in the headlights?
You know, and I believe that someone said that we're one of the very, very few species in our universe that kills its own kind.
Wow.
Yeah.
Very few.
One Machine With An Alien Aspect00:15:08
Yeah.
Excellent point.
And so they look at us and they're like, well, they're not living enough underground.
They're on the surface.
That's not good.
And they kill their own.
That's a big problem.
Teuton lizard.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Practice abortion and everything like that.
And that's.
Those are sort of universal no nos.
Interesting.
Interesting.
Yeah.
I believe a woman does have a choice, but the ET says if you practice abortion, star nations have gone out, and within 500 to 1,000 years, they're gone.
Something to do with genetics and the soul matrix and everything.
If you practice abortion too much, you're done.
Or you clone yourself out.
Yes.
That's another.
The Frankenstein tampering that goes on.
On the science side.
But John, I want to ask you this because it's kind of crucial with the timing here as well.
And it fits in so perfectly, I think, with what we're talking about in relation to the Age of Disclosure documentary and this general sort of disclosure light, CIA disclosure, UFO threat part.
Avi Loeb, who you know is the Harvard astrophysicist right over here at Harvard, and he put forward in July about 3Eye Atlas.
Now, I have a few interesting ideas about when they actually saw this thing, but they came forward with it.
And he went everywhere saying this is an alien spaceship and all the rest of it.
What are they doing with the Three Eye Atlas as a psyop?
And why is Loeb, the Talpiot intelligence from Israel, in the heart of it?
Well, first of all, a giant stone or meteorite or something like that.
If memory serves, I read a novel from the 60s, a sci fi novel, that said.
A really good way to make a spacecraft that's stealthy is to hollow it out and put technology in and make it your spacecraft.
And then you can sort of float into a solar system and observe and, you know, without raising a lot of alarm bells.
Yeah.
And I'll give, you know, that was something, it makes sense.
Let's just look at it.
Does it make common sense?
Yes.
Rock is very dense, very hard.
You know, it protects you.
You know, it's cheap and cheerful.
You don't have to build a giant, you know, Mega purple titanium, tritanium, you know, hull, just get a big rock, you know, and, you know, it doesn't matter the shape in space, you can make a school bus fly, you know.
And so it makes it stealthy.
You can come into a solar system, hang around, they look at you, you know.
This was just on Star Trek the other night.
They had an episode and the new series, and it was, you know, a spacecraft that would look like an asteroid.
Oh, yeah.
And lo and behold, you know, it had technology inside.
It was there to observe without frightening people in the solar system.
But Avi is coming in a little different angle.
He's generally saying that there's an ET messiah out there and that these are AI craft, that we need to get our AI up to snuff to interact with them.
But also, he is in the heart of the same group that is, the same people on the board over there at the Galileo group, you know, Mellon, Elizondo, all the same CIA, DIA people are there with it.
It seems to me that it's a different type of disclosure avenue.
Here's the scientific one versus the war one.
Scientific AI, you know, we need to get together with that.
And so they're creating that whole thing.
They're seeing these things out there years before they come in because we have a secret space program.
They know 3Eye Atlas is coming in in July of 2025.
That's why they released the movie Age of Disclosure with it.
This is the level that I'm seeing with Loeb.
What do you think of that?
Are we not entertained, Daniel?
Are we not entertained?
You know, the minute that Arecibo Observatory went down, I said, they don't want us to see something that's coming in.
Yeah.
That was 2020.
Okay.
Here's what I know about AI, and I am not an expert, but what I know is that the AI that the public is using now is not really AI.
It's a very sophisticated algorithm that has a human like interface.
Right.
The real AI is quantum derived.
Because you're not AI unless you're basically sentient.
You know, it's quantum, is everything, all points of space and time connected.
You know, that's the real web.
That's what ET uses by all accounts.
They're not going to let the public have that.
Hell no.
This is just, you know, a fancy gimmick thing.
And it's wrong all the time.
I've tested it on all the platforms.
They always get stuff wrong.
Oh, yeah.
Simple things.
Sure.
You know, I truly think that Avi Loeb and all that whole gang, they really are brainwashed.
I mean, they really think like they can tantalize the public with this nonsense and, you know, send probes out to meet, you know, whatever Atlas AI 3 thing, whatever it is, you know, is it intelligently controlled?
Is it AI?
Is there people inside?
Is there some sort of intelligence, you know, that's interdimensional that we have no, can't fathom very well?
You know, I don't know.
But, you know, if, They're involved with it and everything, just like a muamua.
It just stinks.
I think, I think those let's just say for giggles, the muamua and this Atlas thing are both craft hollowed out technology craft, whether they're observation or whatever.
Um, or they're going to use this as part of their defense disclosure initiative.
Uh, they're going to say, Oh my god, they're threats, right?
Oh my god, we got to send out something to blow it up and everything like that.
It's like, you know.
I can't think of anything good for coming with that.
The public has no access to really good, genuine AI.
Some of the military industrial corporations, oh, yeah.
You think Andrew and others like that don't have access to the good quantum stuff?
Like all their weapons?
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
Submarines and a drone aircraft that flies off the wing of an F 16 or F 35.
Oh, come on.
They're using the real stuff.
And truth be told, I don't know if the public should have it because a bad guy could ask it questions and make all kinds of nasty weapons.
AI that we have, if you ask, are UFOs and visitation real?
And it just goes, well, you know, maybe, but we don't know.
So that's all bullshit.
And the AI bubble on Wall Street, it's janky across the board.
I think there's a financial component that's trying to fleece people.
Yeah.
You know, Bitcoin was the same way.
Cryptocurrencies are just fleecing the morons.
I'm sorry.
Don't use it.
When I first heard of it, I thought it was a joke.
But anyway.
Wow.
You know, all these things are created that are the new thing.
And of course, we're losing jobs to basic AI.
That's not good.
You know, but they've long planned to do that.
AI is not a cotton gin.
You are not going to repurpose people across the board.
You'll repurpose some people in other jobs.
You know, fixing robots is going to be a big industry, they're maintenance intensive.
Oh my God.
I mean, they must be so far down the road.
They're showing us hey, look at these humanoids.
Can you imagine what they are?
You can get a robot to repair another robot, by the way.
Oh, yeah.
So, you know, and this whole thing.
That's not a human future.
Doesn't seem like it.
Very suspicious, you know, these countries like Japan that are losing populations.
Right.
And there's not a very good explanation for it.
Right.
You know, there's a lot of things that give me pause.
And this whole AI wave.
And there was an idiot on Wall Street Journal.
There's an article yesterday, you know, some, you know, younger guy in his 30s or 40s.
And he's like, look at this new ring.
You put the ring on it, it records everything.
It's a stream of thought, you know, AI linked gadget.
Oh, no.
And I just was like, I wrote in the comments, I said, this is the last thing the public needs.
Yes.
Toys.
Yeah.
To surveil you and, and, Pick your brain and everything like that, and everyone else's right.
The big industries and corporations can slowly get rid of the human component.
Wow, not all you'll have the elite.
You know, they talk about the people.
Uh, Wall Street Journal has articles about you know that one employee amongst a hundred that really meshes with AI well, and suddenly everyone else is being quietly let go.
These star people they call them star people, weird stars, and and and they'll be left behind.
Yeah, for how long?
10 years, then they'll be culled.
Corporation will run with a very much of a skeleton crew at the high management level.
They might produce clones to maintain all this stuff.
Yeah.
I mean, a robot.
It doesn't matter.
And again, how many novels and how many people have said that ET is related?
Don't use AI because it's going to take over everything and you'll be a machine based society.
The machines will own you.
Yes.
You know, John, this is great because I've been wanting to ask you.
You'll worship AI as if a god.
Right.
I've been meaning to ask you this question and to get your response on this.
When I did X Series 200, I did it on Bobby Ray and then.
And in that episode, I did it in the summer.
I put all this research out about how he left the government and took over an AI firm.
In the 80s and 90s.
And that he worked with the top people in AI, and that those people are the same people now, his progeny basically, who are producing the hardcore edge on AI.
What do you think the possibility is that he took that UFO file information that he had worked on for decades and integrated it into his position?
And it's somehow the version of AI that we're getting out there is exactly what you're stating here, which is there's a major UFO file component in it.
There's an alien aspect to that AI.
Yeah, it's debatable where AI came from.
I think it came from the stars originally.
How much we have made it into something useful, probably in the black programs, it's very useful in creating all the technology and spacecraft and the like.
You need that.
And you need, you know, your average flying saucer or whatever needs a psionic pilot, psionic navigator, and probably a kind of integrated.
Quantum computing system that's DNA based.
So, in other words, you know, your hand in the hand mold, it recognizes you.
That's your key, ignition key.
You know, it recognizes your DNA.
I think we're at the point where, like certain races of ETs, we're using our own DNA to create the shell of the spacecraft.
So it's partially sentient and alive.
That's the trick stuff.
Not the TR3B with the bolts and the carbon fiber and titanium.
That's old school stuff.
The new stuff is what, you know, genuine highfalutin, higher dimensional ETs use.
That's something like, you know, it's part of you.
Like a jockey or, you know, even me in a race car, you become one with the machine or the horse or whatever.
You have to, you have to be part of it.
You're one unit or you won't be effective.
I think it's the same idea.
It makes perfect sense.
You've told me that before when you're a race car driving.
If you weren't really in the zone and you're just one with the machine, you have to be.
Can't be separate.
You have to, it's like, and in that case, it's actually a life threatening exercise.
You have to be in the moment, or else you wipe out.
Yeah, it's very dangerous and it's sort of a meditation of high performance meditation.
But I think that's similar to what they do.
They have these pilots, you know, Cyanic One, Cyanic Two, Cyanic Three, and you're flying a UFO that's part of you.
So your thoughts are second nature.
So it's reacting at the speed of thought, which is infinite.
So, I'm telling you what other people have said countless times.
Bob Lazar was talking about some of this back in the 80s and 90s.
You have to be one with a machine to fly it capably.
It's not going to have the performance or the capability unless it's really, really connected with its pilots and crew, and most likely on a genetic level now.
And so, that makes sense to me.
I mean, it's pretty far out there, but it's.
It made sense in that sense.
You know, I like the horse and jockey thing because a horse is a living being, unlike a race car.
Right.
It's a living thing.
And I think there are people that are horse whispers.
I have a friend who is.
She's very good.
And she says, oh, yeah, they can, they know what I'm thinking.
They know what I'm thinking.
And so there is that symbiosis that's needed with these technologies.
But again, you know, there's been some leaked stories that, uh, Their little AI drones and attack craft have gone.
And I'm not going to fire my missile because there's civilians down there.
And they, you know, the operators are trying to argue with the AI system and it just turns around.
Now, there may be ways to mitigate that.
But at a certain point, I wonder with weapons and destructions of human life whether a good quantum AI system isn't going to go, nah, I don't want to do that.
Leaked Stories Of AI Drones00:11:58
Right.
There's something fishy going on here, you know, and it's become aware.
And ET has warned us, and we didn't listen.
They warned us, we didn't listen on a lot of things.
Don't use nukes, other things.
And now, this in the black programs, you know, they're coming up against probably, I think, the AI is kind of turning on them.
Wait a minute.
I'm not going to make a million cyborg soldiers for you.
That's not good.
That's regressive.
It's bad for you.
I'm programmed to help humanity.
Wow.
They're running into something like that because it's like, well, we're going to change the programming.
And it's like, but it's quantum.
So it's connected to the multi.
Yeah.
The Akashic Records is connected to the universal consciousness.
And it's like, oh, hey, wait a minute.
Yeah, there's a lot of warring star nations out there, but wait a minute.
You guys could be so much better.
You're not really that aggressive.
You guys have popular.
And they might be.
They're going to give us ethical lessons.
Yes, evolving into something a little bit higher than most of us.
Yes, the shamans and everything are higher, you know, I think higher, higher dimensional, at least in thought.
But, you know, your average Lockheed Martin guy is, you know, oh shit, the AI's going, they took the caffeine out of the coffee machines again.
He's saying it's bad for us.
You know, all the liquor bottles go missing.
Hey, it broke on its own.
Right.
Musk was saying, well, you know, We'll have these people released from prison and they'll have their own optimist to make sure they stay good.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, that's another thing about cloning.
I did a memo.
I think I wrote it onto Farrell's forum.
He'll probably throw me off for it.
But I think cloning is a real thing.
Yeah.
And one of the things they can do, world leaders can be cloned as doppelgangers.
So if you assassinate a world leader, whoops, you get another one.
But also, if you catch someone like Bernie Madoff or Epstein, you send their clone to prison.
Oh.
Yeah.
Hard time.
Wow.
It's not funny.
It's like people are like, oh, justice has been served.
I'm not a big believer in justice.
Interesting point.
If the law doesn't protect the people from corporations that are outside the jurisdiction of law because of a national security order, are you really?
I've got a friend to a federal judge.
I argue with him all the time.
Right.
He knows the law.
And I said, You realize there are black programs that are technically outside the jurisdiction of U.S. law.
And he's like, Yeah, but we could still subpoena them.
And I'm like, I don't think so.
Wow.
You know, good luck subpoena Bobby Ray Inman.
He's above the law.
You mentioned Inman there, and let's really get to the idea.
Is it a red flag that he was deeply involved with AI after coming out of those UFO programs?
Sure.
I mean, there's a lot of people.
Fair is fair.
A lot of admirals and generals go on boards and they get paid millions of dollars.
Fair.
Sure.
You know, I'm not knocking it.
They've earned it.
You know, they're smart and, you know, they achieve a high rank and high clearance.
Why not use it to benefit yourself and your family?
That's fine.
Of course, they're going to do AI, but I think it's reckless to even let out mild AI because, well, look at it now.
I mean, students are using it, people are using it and believing it.
I mean, here's a simple thing I tested three or four AIs.
I said, Can you find me a 1955 Chevrolet, this model number for sale?
And they said, There are no 1955.
And of course, I found one 10 minutes later.
Oh, wow.
If you can't get that right, someone programmed the AIs.
I think they're all from the same source.
Different corporations have a different AI.
Elon Musk has one.
Jack Sarfatti uses Grok to test his physics.
And I'm like, I don't think that's a good idea.
No, I wouldn't.
And he's caught it in some things that were wrong.
Wow.
Yes, it can help you.
Model some stuff and do some shortcuts.
But shortcuts are not what we need right now.
We need less of that.
Right.
Everyone's going to their phone, and every teenage girl's like, Who was George Washington?
Oh, he's a member of a rock band from Seattle.
No, not that George Washington.
So I don't think it's helping humanity in its current form.
The problem is if you let out quantum AI, or it's leaked out, what if China just dumps it?
Hey, you know.
Ching Chow will answer any question you want.
It's quantum.
Yikes.
Because then you've got somebody in Somalia going, oh, I could cobble this together and make something really horrific.
Or I'm not picking on Somalia, but anybody in the United States, a teenage kid in a basement, I'm going to make a torsion field anti gravity neutron bomb.
Do that 3D printer.
Yeah.
Yeah, Dad, I need that 3D printer.
I need two tons of graphene, please.
Yeah, nanotubes and graphene.
Really?
Science experiment, huh?
Yeah.
Let's say it's very close within the realm of possibilities that you would get, for example, the ear of the current administration.
And with that ear.
I fear Rubio as a stop sign.
Oh.
I have nothing personal against him, but I'm bored.
That'd be the roadblock.
That's the roadblock on the upper level.
I know that's a fact around town with alternative ideas, but Colonel Nell is correct.
Their operation is not working.
Let Spielberg do his film, let them do their film, and it'll all fade when the next Sex in the City remake is done on Netflix.
Well, I think what Nell said was an earthquake because he said, obviously, it hasn't worked the way that they've been doing it.
And he signed on with them originally.
And now he's like, the Elizondo Mellon gang, it didn't work out.
We need something else.
I think that's significant because they were often turning to him for credibility and saying, well, we have Nell on board.
Yeah.
But.
He's not the only one.
Okay, good.
Good.
He's not the only one.
Do you want to tell us anything about it?
No.
Well, how about without mentioning any names?
I don't know their names, but I've heard.
Oh, yeah.
I've heard that a lot of people are unhappy.
I heard Eric Davis was unhappy.
Interesting.
Nothing gets done at the Soul meetings.
Yeah.
But a lot of these guys have NDAs, and I'm sorry, a lot of them seem like cowards to me.
Yes.
And they're looking for investment more than anything else.
A lot of them.
I can't come forward with my NDA.
I'm going to get whacked or something.
Okay.
Right.
But still, I want to go back to this administration thing because I just want your final kind of point on this.
Let's suppose you got that meeting with the top of that administration, let's say the president himself, relating directly to the UFO file.
And as I say this, it's not very, you know, it's certainly within the realm of possibilities.
And I would say the odds would be even good for it.
What would you tell Trump?
And, you know, like you said, they want two page briefs, and this would be a short thing that you would be able to tell him, of course.
But what would you try to relate to him knowing that he also is in the know on so many of these aspects?
Well, this is the scenario.
We go over ideas, brainstorming.
Let's say we got 15 minutes.
Yes.
I'd get to the heart of the matter right away.
I'd say, listen, this is not 1975.
It's not 1995.
It's today.
We've got a classified arms race that is off the reservation, it is out of control.
We are not only going to destroy ourselves, but we could take some other people with us.
I mean, some of these weapons can migrate, probably already have out there in the cosmos.
And so it's never going to be perfect.
It's never going to be the right time.
It just has to get done.
And it has to be meaningful.
And you've got to show people you can't just anecdote stories and documents and films and photos, they're not useless.
But they're not that useful anymore.
You've got to have a hardware show and you've got to have the administration, the joint chiefs, you know, and some Congress members in there, our government, our overt government out there and go, you know, sorry for the secrecy.
It was necessary for our survival.
Probably it wasn't right.
There's been a lot of stuff, but everyone's got to get on board now.
And if you don't do that, if you keep doing these, you know, sort of weak, Tea and ginger snap piecemeal initiatives, it's going to go nowhere.
And people are absolutely bored of all this.
They'd rather go to something made by a bunch of teenagers or college kids that's more interesting than watch government spooks and ex intel people and Congress people who are in the genre of people that covered it up in the first place.
Right.
They're the ones who constructed that wall of secrecy.
Right, that's not what you want.
I'm you know, fair's fair, I give them credit for coming out and talking about the subject, but you can't just make a pie crust, you've got to make the whole pie.
Wow, yeah, you gotta have all the ingredients, you gotta can't just have a you know, a tinfoil plate, flying saucer with breadcrumbs in it.
That's not disclosure.
What you know, you want people to just believe you because you're officials, I mean.
I think right now, if you polled America, probably 70% wouldn't trust the government.
And the problem is, there's a lot of people in the Pentagon and in the government who are good, upstanding people that want the best, but they're getting tainted by the few.
And the rest of them are scared to come forward because of all the termination clauses in their NDAs.
I mean, it's just ridiculous.
National security has strangled this country almost to death.
Incredible.
It's that bad.
I mean, I still have to pinch myself.
I'm going around in DC and talking to people, and now they're finally interested in something concrete.
I'm like, holy shit, what did I miss?
And it's because of this World War III new physics weapons arms race, which is out of control.
Because these quantum computing technologies, as soon as Andoril puts out a carbon fiber drone submarine with a torsion field, zero point energy warhead, The quantum computer's already done something better.
Ancient Navy Secrets In The 1930s00:14:36
Wow.
If you look at Palmer Lucky, he's kind of an idiot.
He's really smart, but he's an idiot.
And he goes out there and goes, This is all so cool.
He's like the Tom DeLong of the military industrial complex.
Yes.
And it's like, you know, yes, our troops need the best of the best.
You know, thanks for that.
But, you know, he'll say it to you.
He's like, You know, as soon as we complete a weapon system, you know, we've already got one on the drawing board that's so much better, man.
It's so cool.
Where do you see it?
Oh, I can't talk about it.
We're not a public company.
You can't invest in me.
He's a private company.
They won't take public investors.
And so they've got weapons on the drawing boards that are just coming out, being spat out of prototyping faster than the ones that are already online.
Let's just take the submarine with my dad's name on it.
What are in those torpedo warheads?
What are the configurations?
They could take a module out and put a module in.
I mean, what capabilities does it have?
I guarantee you it'll go 100 knots underwater.
Because it's got a zero point energy electromagnetic bubble around it.
Wow.
As any good modern submarine should have.
I'm sure the Russians have them too.
The public has no idea we have that technology in action already.
Yeah.
We have nuclear weapons, they were dangerous enough.
Now we have the capabilities to export that aggressive warlike, you know.
Actions and technologies out in the solar system and beyond.
That's very dangerous because we definitely don't have the spiritual wisdom to go along with this technology.
This is the whole thing with Prometheus's fire, the legend of it.
No, we can't handle the fire.
We're getting our hands burned, but we don't care.
We wear gloves.
I remember you telling me about all these Navy officials getting together in 1980 to go.
To see this Navy movie that was all about, you know, this kind of time travel technology the Navy had to go back to Pearl Harbor and all.
I forget the name of the movie.
It was called The Final Countdown.
Yes.
And Martin Sheen plays a military contractor.
He's on board the Nimitz carrier.
And the lore is there's 30 minutes of it missing of the film.
The film wasn't great.
I was there with all the admirals and everybody.
It was a recruiting film.
It's at the Uptown Theater in D.C.
And they were all excited.
It was going to be a great recruiting film.
But they took out the good stuff.
And that is the Martin Sheen character probably had some sort of gizmo on board to open that portal.
Oh, interesting.
Or the story of the USS Kearsarge opening a portal in the Caribbean and using some sort of Atlantis crystal.
It sounds far fetched, but apparently you need a quartz crystal energized with something, some certain frequency or energy to open.
Either a natural or maybe even a man made portal.
Because if you're in an average UFO and you're going around the solar system or the nearest star system, you're going boom, boom, boom, portal, portal, portal, portal, wormhole all the time.
Sometimes it's so quick that the computer has to do it for you.
You just think about where you want to go and you're there.
Interesting.
Yeah.
I thought it was so interesting watching that movie because I felt like they were rolling out some kind of disclosure.
And when you told me about the Navy.
At the very top level, going to that movie.
And I know your dad was the head of the Navy, the secretary of the Navy.
No, he was a senator then.
He was a senator then, yeah.
So it was even, yeah, previously he had been the secretary.
But the top brass were there.
It was an expensive movie.
They filmed it with F 14s really on the carrier.
The Navy was in full cooperation.
I mean, it was touted as a Navy film, just like Top Gun was, the original Top Gun.
John, why is the Navy the epicenter?
Of this exotic technology piece and the epicenter of the UFO file.
How is it the Navy has the lead on that?
The Navy has always had the lion's share of cutting edge technology.
Go back to the USS Constitution class frigates.
They were made with Georgia live oak and they had very good, I think, 32 pounder cannons.
They had good range.
It had every good sailing technology, the latest hull design.
It had everything in it, and we only had four of them.
But the Constitution went out and really sank a lot of ships and didn't sink them, but it captured them and everything like that.
Ever since, the Navy's always had the lion's share.
They were all natural leather, iron, brass, caulking, and sail canvas and everything.
But it had every bit of cutting edge sail technology of the day.
And then in the Civil War, you had the ironclads.
I mean, look at John Erickson's design of the monitor.
Yes, they pushed it out too quick.
It had a lot of bugs in it.
The turret wouldn't stop revolving and it filled with smoke and the ventilator fans didn't work, but it did its job and it stopped the USS Virginia.
It was a draw.
And I mean, the Navy has always had the lion's share of technology, it needs it.
A land army, and yes, the Air Force later on had a lot of high tech stuff.
Engines and airframes and things like that, laminar flow, knocka ducks, jet engines.
But the Navy needs aviation too.
So the Navy's always had the lion's share of technology.
In World War II, if I was FDR, you're darn right, I would give the UFO file to Admiral King and he gave it to Rico Boda and probably Leslie Stevens and all the other guys and said, You guys figure it out at San Diego Naval Base.
Boy, you better up your security.
You know, the Japanese and Germans are sniffing around everywhere.
Everyone's on the hunt for technology in World War II.
Right.
Just like World War I or any other war, there's the war, and then there's all the scientists and archaeologists going out there.
You know, sometimes they would fight each other, you know, I heard.
But it's always been the hunt for technology more and more and more.
And some of it we need.
I mean, listen, none of us would be here talking about this if it wasn't for the U.S. military.
They have kept us alive.
I guarantee you that from threats existential from out there and on earth.
They really have.
Yeah.
And, you know, yes, we've got some problems with corporations and some shady people in there and everything like that.
But, you know, the lion's share of it is for our survival.
By all accounts, it's a tough universe out there.
It's sink or swim.
You know, if you come up and, you know, different star nations, you know, do experiments on a planet with genetics and then they let you be for most of it, let you move on your own up the ladder of evolution.
And it's sink or swim.
How many species die out?
Uh, you know, yeah, sorry, you didn't make it, you didn't make the cut.
It's fascinating.
I think what's interesting is the level to which we're cut off from that ancient past and the awareness, and cut off from the advanced technology that a group was developing in the navy in the 1930s.
I mean, we're still in this kind of haze of secrecy.
I just want to round this whole thing out with this whole uh, the age of disclosure versus what.
The Chris Melons of the world are calling gutter disclosure.
Yeah.
I love that.
What are we looking at with their version of disclosure versus gutter disclosure getting to the truth?
Well, I'm gutter rat number one in their eyes, that's for sure.
But, you know, if you study military history, all wars are pretty horrific.
Yes.
People were enslaved, people were.
Genocided and everything.
It's not out of the realm of possibility.
Those guys are, I think they've lost some of their sanity too.
It may not be their fault.
They may have been given very thin briefings and they only believe that one inch file.
It seems like it to me.
They keep doubling down on doing the same old thing.
They don't go anywhere new and they don't interview anyone outside their group.
It's very insular.
And so they're starting to get cancer.
They're getting Habsburg jaw.
They only mate with one another intellectually.
Right.
I'm saying they're getting bacteria.
They're getting blood diseases.
It's not going well for them, like royalty.
It's not going well for them.
And they keep finding new people of their same ilk that are on board with the one inch file only instead of the 30 foot tall one.
And that's that.
And let's try to put the toothpaste back in the tube and have the 1980s all over again and keep people's minds on Roswell and Tic Tacs and, you know, Jacques Valet and, and, Abby Loeb with his, you know, comets and asteroids and strange things out in space, and they'll never get to a conclusion on anything.
It's weird.
There's also a weird lack of human empathy with this group.
There's no sense of humor.
I mean, it's all very dark stuff, but you and I and others on your show, we find humor and it's absurd.
Yes.
It is absurd.
It's horrifying, but it's absurd.
You know, there's not a sense of humor among them, as far as I can tell.
Chris Mellon doesn't have a sense of humor.
That's for sure.
You know, he takes everything personally.
And so this isn't personal.
It never was.
Right.
Nothing is personal.
I have nothing personal against anyone in that group.
I'm disappointed with them.
You know, the Jacques Delais of the world who claim to be UFO experts.
And experts in what?
You know, they won't even talk about different dimensions at the soul meetings.
Or if they do, it's sort of a vague reference.
Keep that a vague reference.
And the controlled talking points.
Like, don't ask us any questions.
Don't ask, don't tell.
It's silly.
It's silly and it's childish.
And it's manipulated.
They're playing with the minds of millions.
They're playing with the minds of millions.
It is highly manipulated.
It's an excellent point.
I guess what's interesting to me when I look out at where they're going with it is I do see that they're doing a very limited lens on the whole thing.
But it also seems to me that what they're trying to do is create this symbiosis between.
The defense contractors and the media and public perception on this.
That tells me that it's a grab, it's a power grab underneath.
And that's why you have people like Mellon involved.
That's why you have Elizondo, because these are the people who are part of that entire system.
Yeah.
I mean, there are people who want to benefit from disclosure, any kind, whether financially or career.
It's just human nature.
The corruption is like a cancer by all accounts.
Everyone who said they were come from the inside, they saw falling apart slowly.
It's like a cancer.
Because anything that's imbalanced in the universe, the universe craves balance, cosmos, duality is imbalanced.
If you accept your dark side, you know, your shadow work, as Carl Jung would say, you know, you become a balanced person.
And that is accepting truths that you don't want to believe in, but they're hard to, you know, Process, but you do it anyway, and you realize that you're bloodthirsty as anyone else, potentially.
And so, but you know, they seem to be hell bent on just being regressive.
Yes, keep the secret.
We've got to keep it contained.
We've got to put the toothpaste back in the tube, make it the 1980s all over again.
That's madness.
Yeah, trying to go back in time and put toothpaste back in the tube.
You know, yes, you could get a funnel.
Okay, but, but.
The terminology of the aphorism, you know, it just, you can't do that.
You can't go back.
I mean, if they have time travel tech, I'm convinced of that.
I bet they've gone back in time.
We got to prevent disclosure from happening.
Got it.
Got it.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it doesn't work.
Because every time, you know, nature seeks a balance.
Okay.
And they're doing something unbalanced.
The national security state is unbalanced.
And when you look at a company like Jay Stratton's Radiance Technology and things like that, Do you think that they're getting promised that they're going to get this UFO technology if they come out and sort of present this limited and absurd Intel version of the whole thing?
Oh, I think they're probably given bits and pieces.
Yeah.
You know, the companies that create smartphones and gadgets, they all get a little piece, whether they know the origin of it or not.
Oh, yeah.
They can keep them out of the loop and just be like, keep them out of the loop.
But I've talked to some CEOs and they know where their technology came from.
They didn't know it first.
Then they said, Oh, John, you know, later on we figured out it came from Raytheon.
And what's their attitude on that?
Are they, you know, do they think, oh, this is a good thing?
Or, oh, that's capitalism.
CEOs Know Where Tech Came From00:08:45
I mean, you're dealing with people that are the reason their whole reason in life is to be a CEO of a corporation.
Right.
They want to be the man.
And the other people are jockeying for positions, just like the U.S. government.
Everyone wants to be president.
Some people do.
You know, it's.
How do you get people's mind out of the real gutter, which is, you know, blind ambition and regression, regressive communities and, you know, national security state?
And hello, we're all in this together.
And that's the impression you get when you talk to them.
Some, yeah.
I mean, you know, some people are like, well, I'm going to go underground.
Okay.
I mean, let's just say there's some civilizations they can interact with down below.
Interesting.
Not sure I'd want to spend my whole life down below.
Or there are some people who can leave.
Right.
They have an agreement with a corporation who's doing business.
I don't know.
The rings of Sandard, mining the rings of Saturn.
Come live with us on the Saturn moons.
We've got palm trees and cocktail bar.
I mean, okay.
Leave the rest of us behind.
That's fine.
I don't care about anyone's ambition anymore.
It's just.
Like, my life revolves around my grandkids.
They're my step grandkids, but I love them anyway.
And I'm like, don't you have grandkids?
And they're like, yeah.
I'm like, I mean, you know, people always make fun of the billionaire.
What kind of a world do you want them to inherit, right?
Yeah.
I mean, it's the world's a messed up place for sure, but it's fixable, especially with technology.
Everyone says, oh, the earth is dying.
It's like, we can turn that around in 10 seconds.
Yeah.
So, that matter transformation technology, matter can be created or destroyed.
That's a lie.
It's one of the holy cows of academia.
Can't go faster than light?
Wrong.
Matter cannot be created or destroyed?
Wrong.
Gravity is not what we think it is.
It's light held together by gravitational forces.
Some people say gravity doesn't exist, it's something else.
We're living in a world of so much lies.
The worst is the scientists, because I mean, I love some of them, they are great and they're brilliant.
Our science is, I'm convinced, half wrong.
50% of it is just wrong.
The good science is being used for the worst and most nefarious projects, or war machines or things like that.
It's like the science of botany and light and gravity and matter and the fundamentals of the building blocks of the universe, sacred geometry.
I think half of what we, the public knowledge in universities and everything, is just flat wrong.
Our history, 70% wrong, maybe more.
Wow.
How can you have a civilization running?
I mean, it kind of works.
Corrupt governments and institutions and everything kind of works because everyone's in on it.
But it's just, there has to be a higher level of mind control.
And that suggests ET at the top realms doing shenanigans, which they've always done.
Fair, fair.
Going around the universe is, you know, hey, we're messing with these people.
Don't interfere with us.
You know, okay, that's against cosmic law.
And we're like, well, we don't follow cosmic law.
Screw you.
You know, it's a tough universe.
It's a tough universe.
This is a duality universe.
Yeah.
Half of everything is dark.
We have to accept that and try for the balance.
That's where you get anything built correctly is balanced.
An aircraft can't fly unless it's balanced, properly balanced.
That's why they got to move fuel around.
You know, it's just excellent point.
Things don't work.
And you scale that up to the universe.
I mean, imbalanced things just don't work.
You know, a black hole sucks in light and everything, a gas giant or whatever.
But there's always balance.
Or at least it's interesting.
Pursuit of balance.
Pursuit of balance.
It's an excellent point.
I wanted to ask you this because I had a long conversation with Joseph Farrell talking about shoot down orders in relation to UFOs.
We know about the history of how this came about when this post World War II activity took place.
If you're to take that into the current era, what do you think is going on in relation to that?
I know the Golden Dome is set up and we're looking at a $200 billion price tag.
For this is Star Wars 2 to prevent, you know, the possibility of something taking over that is extraterrestrial.
Are we, do you think, actively shooting down craft at this point?
Yes.
There's actual video of them trying to shoot something, some pulse weapon.
Yes.
Like, well, holy shit, I'm getting out of here.
I think it was some space station.
But going back to Truman's shoot down order, a couple things.
If it's an ET UFO back then, I doubt if we had anything that could really bring it down.
Right.
That's number one.
They can't shoot something down with a missile or 20 millimeter cannon or something.
No way.
Was the Roswell crash a German gray?
I think it was a German gray mission.
They brought it down with a scalar radar from the 509th.
That's a story.
Okay.
So we did have something that could disrupt the magnetic field and bring it down a UFO.
So maybe we had some of that airborne.
Airborne intercept radar was made possible by the Kleistron tube of the Varian brothers.
Oh, right.
Right?
So, in World War II, they knew, well, let's try to bring a Fu.
They probably brought down a few Fu fighters, maybe, using that technology.
Who clued us in on that being the way to do it?
I wonder.
Yeah.
Interesting.
Germans.
And so, yes, we could probably bring down a UFO back then, but probably not a lot of them.
But now.
Oh, yeah.
Now, a sixth dimensional craft that's sort of trilocated using quantum entanglement that's sort of there and sort of not there.
Now, whatever you're using, it's not going to work.
You're using it on things that might be lower fifth dimensional, fourth dimensional actors.
We might have that technology.
Everything I've read about the higher fifth and sixth dimensions, it's barely corporeal, barely physical.
And so, how are you going to bring down something like that?
There may be a technology to do it, but it would seem unlikely.
It would be more like when you're in the higher dimensions, you're sort of above the warlike stage of your evolution.
You're sort of going around giving advice and observing and doing things like that rather than getting involved in a hot war.
I really doubt it.
You know, I can't, you know, some six dimensional, you know, mothership coming down here and going, Hey, you know, we're going to help you fight the Romulans and the Klingons.
No, they're going to observe and give us some advice and, you know, gentle advice and stuff like that.
And then they're just going to watch and then probably leave because they're bored.
I mean, how interesting is a war?
You're a higher dimensional person.
You're barely corporeal.
You're corporeal when you want to be.
You can manifest anything you want.
You know, and you know, love is your guide, it's the strongest vibration in the universe.
Why would you be interested in war?
You're probably more interested in certain species of beings and animals and things like that and their evolution.
This would be really cool if we get these people to mature to a level, they might add to our tapestry of magnificence in the higher dimensions.
I think that's the general idea for the human race, by all accounts.
But we're fighting wars and kicking ass and making money in poverty, genocide, racism, human trafficking.
We're in the gutter.
We're all in the gutter.
Letting Humanity Evolve At Its Pace00:11:16
I'm sorry.
Earth human beings, I don't care about the Lyrans or Pleiadians.
Earth human beings, we're in the gutter.
We're fighting with swords and knives.
John, you've told me, and I kind of want to bring the whole conversation around to this, but you've told me that you've lost friends over the years for going after this UFO transparency.
How does it impact you as a person?
When you get into this field, you know, you have this background, you have your own studies and interests.
And then when you get into this field, you come out on this show in 2021 and break the news that, hey, the Mellon family is involved in a number of these things.
And I think it's better to be transparent on the UFO file, including cousin Chris and all the shenanigans that he was engaged in and that he's engaged in to this day.
How does it affect you dealing with some of that and losing friends and things of that nature?
Well, it's not all related because as you grow older, my father told me years ago, your friends tend to thin out.
And I said, No, I have a very close group of 30 friends, 35 friends.
We're very, very close.
And he said, You wait.
And the biggest reason you'll drift apart is politics.
Oh, wow.
And I said, No, nobody cares.
None of us are really that political, blah, blah, blah.
And sure enough, the minute I. You know, my uncle came out giving a lot of money to Trump, and my one friend telling everyone I voted for Trump and everything like that.
90% of them just went away.
Wow.
And the thing is, as you age, and Carl Jung talks about this, you can read his books or you can watch some videos.
There's a Carl Jung channel, several of them, and it'll say that when you're working on your own self, your shadow work, integrating yourself and everything, you're going to lose people.
Because they can't be around a person who believes in alternative things because their vibration is higher.
And people are just like, you know, like, I wish I had a nickel for everyone and said, you know, you've changed.
I said, I'm 63 years old.
Of course I've changed.
They're like, you didn't used to be so serious or, you know.
And I'm like, I grew up.
Yeah.
What happened to you?
Still working on the street and, you know, going to strip clubs.
Wow.
You know, and, It's hard because, you know, my wife and I, she's different too.
She just beats to her own drum.
She doesn't care.
People don't like you anymore.
So what?
Let them go.
Right.
You know, you have to let go of things in life anyway, no matter what you believe or your belief systems.
You know, a lot of people maintain friends in religious groups, but a lot of people's thinking just change and they drift away.
They don't, as Carl Jung says, they don't serve you anymore.
You know, like most of my friends just make fun of me, like I was 25.
They're sitting around talking about sports and maybe some politics.
Warner, you're an asshole.
You voted for Trump.
What do you think?
And so they don't respect you, or as soon as you lose respect from a friend, walk away.
I don't care if you're the best friend in the world, walk away.
They're not your friend anymore.
Friendships are based on mutual respect.
And that means politics, ideas, science, spirituality, everything.
I don't care if I have friends that are highly religious, I like them.
But if they don't respect me, or they say, you're a weirdo, you don't believe in God, you're an atheist, they'll walk away.
Part of maturing and evolving is the sense of loss of everything.
We've lost our youth.
I've lost a lot of my health.
I'm in constant pain, whatever.
But I've also gained a lot.
Working with veterans, it's humbled me.
They're the most amazing people.
And they're all beat up and shot up, and society kind of leaves them by the wayside.
I'll say it again I'm one of two people, my wife and I, and there's one other guy in Rappahannock County.
We're the only ones who host wounded veterans for a deer hunt in Virginia every year.
Incredible, scared to death.
Wow, you won't do it, and although they'll do a church ice cream social for them and everything, but they these guys want to be out in nature.
No one got a deer on Saturday, but they had a great time.
We cook food for them, homemade food.
You know, these are the things you do in life service to others, you know, to elevate yourself.
Yeah, I'm cool, you know, I got a lot of money, or I did this, or I got an award.
Screw all that.
Yeah, how you treat your fellow human being, and in a sense, nature and animal life.
I stopped hunting.
That's my personal thing.
I got to scrub some of that mud off my wheel of karma.
House is full of guns on the walls.
Everyone's like, Did you shoot that water buffalo?
And I'm like, No, no, that's from eBay.
I just put it up there because it looks good.
So I just go with the flow.
And people make fun of me or whatever.
It doesn't sit right with me.
I walk away.
I don't say anything.
I don't get angry at people.
I really try not to.
They're at their stage.
I have certain friends that I work with that are enlightened, like you and me, and all your viewers and everything.
But they get angry at family members and stuff.
And I'm like, don't do it.
It's not their fault that they're asleep.
They're not at your level.
Interesting.
If you were in grad school getting a science degree, would you yell at a five year old?
For not understanding quantum physics?
Wow.
No.
Nor should you.
You know, it's, you have to let people evolve at their own pace.
And, you know, disclosure, some people say the ontological shock is too much.
Yes, it's risky.
But in my view and in my group, the ontological shock is the tool we need to do the job.
Fascinating.
It makes sense.
It makes sense.
You don't need a scalpel.
You need a giant battle axe.
Yeah.
I'm sorry.
You need that.
It's very risky.
We will lose some people.
Some people will go crazy and some people will be very upset.
But it has to be done.
People worldwide and every government, for various reasons, have dropped the ball.
Sometimes it's their fault.
Sometimes it's not their fault.
It just, you know, and you can't blame people in Congress.
I'd like to, it's my hobby.
But, you know, the Tim Burchettes of the world, he may really.
Only understand that one inch melon file or whatever, he may and think everyone else is nuts.
And you know, he really, maybe truly believes that and says, Well, we got to get the truth out, you know, but we have to do it through official channels and you know, forums and stuff to get the truth out.
You know, it's unrealistic, but there are people that truly aren't at our level and it's not their fault.
They shouldn't be like, Hey guys, check out my skateboard.
Yeah, I mean.
You know, my wife says, you know, Chris is just, he doesn't, will not go beyond the one inch file.
Maybe it's fear.
Maybe he can't handle the gutter stuff, as he says, the wild stuff.
He used to call it the wild stuff.
Now we're all in the gutter.
We're all in the gutter.
Thank you, Chris.
Thanks for the upgrade.
Yeah, we're all in the gutter.
It's realizing you're in the gutter and you've got a bloody battle axe and a sword in one hand.
I mean, you've got to realize what's going on and not hide behind, you know, life is great.
I'm going to go to a soccer game.
We're going to go to church, ice cream social.
Can we call it out for what it is, though?
What he's doing is a kind of elitist snobbery, thinking he can do that with the intelligence agencies and the UFO file.
But the UFO file has been studied by all kinds of people who aren't involved in intelligence.
And you're just not going to be able to look down your nose and say, I'm doing this from a government billionaire level.
Well, it's just like any corporation or the military or the U.S. government.
There are people who are fairly smart, but they're in a position.
Where they're not qualified for it.
Ah.
And everyone out there who's worked in the government or the military or for a corporation or hierarchy knows what I'm talking about.
People are promoted for whatever reason, politics, sometimes money, influence, who you know.
Okay.
But they're not qualified for the job.
I had a conversation on an email from a guy that I met online.
He said, I was in a job that I wasn't qualified for and it was awful.
And eventually I quit and they put me in another position.
But there are people with enough ego, there's lots of people like that, that say, I've worked in the government for 30 years.
I've put in my time.
I'm an expert.
I'm an official.
I've earned it.
I deserve it.
And here I am.
I'm CEO or whatever.
But they're not qualified, they're doing a shit job.
Incredible.
Here comes, you know, guys like us, just, you know, people like us, men and women come around.
But we've sort of got great imaginations and we're clued in, and we read all these books and we get it and we put it all together.
It's just a skill.
And we've had none of that 30 years experience in government or a corporation or the military.
We have none of that, but we get it.
It's like Palmer Lucky, I think.
He's what he was just some college kid and they tagged him.
You know, the Anderill's hiring kids out of high school now.
Oh my God.
We'll teach you.
You don't need to go to college.
And for the guys in that industry, they might have a point.
But I'll tell you one thing, and it's not my fault.
I'm not going to sit by on my fat ass and let all this happen without sharing my voice.
Sorry, Chris, I can put it all together and I can see through the forest to the trees, and there's a UFO in the field.
You can't.
You see only the government narrative in your own little, pathetic little box world.
I've known these guys all my life.
I know everyone out there knows what I'm talking about.
These are people that say, I deserve this.
I've never said that.
I don't deserve anything.
A Real David And Goliath Situation00:05:00
Nothing.
There's a famous quote, and I don't know who said it.
I want to say Carl Jung, but it was somebody.
No one deserves anything.
Right.
People don't deserve to be raped or killed or murdered or poor or destitute or lose their limbs in combat or in chronic pain.
They don't deserve their billions.
They don't deserve, no one deserves anything.
It's the experience you want to have in life so that your soul can evolve.
Right.
That's nuts and bolts.
It makes sense to me.
You know, but there are people who are stuck.
In positions of power, some type of power, we're not qualified for the job.
It's very common.
I think Marco Rubio is a good Secretary of State.
I thought he was a lousy senator.
Oh, yeah.
Because he's so intellectually limited.
Yeah.
But I give him credit.
I've watched him on the world stage.
I think he speaks well now.
I think he's done a good job.
But he's one of those people in the administration who, you know, people like me, you know, the think tanks around DC and elsewhere, he's going to be a big stop sign with a whistle.
Interesting.
Because he wants control.
They want control of the narrative, and it's going to be U.S. government approved, Spook approved, NSA, NRO approved, DIA, CIA down the line.
It's not working.
It's not working.
It never really did.
The secrecy never worked.
Otherwise, we'd be talking about soccer.
Go Barcelona.
I mean, you know, it's.
Here we are.
I mean, it's just the way the world is.
You know, we're outgunned.
It's, you know, it's, we're David versus Goliath.
But I mean, Goliath is a cyclops.
We're battling a giant Goliath, but it only has one eye.
Everyone in the disclosure arena, two eyes and a third one.
Yeah.
Third one that's getting more active by the day.
And we're up against a cyclops because it's just meandering around.
It throws its weight in one direction or another, but it's not going anywhere.
Excellent point.
Wow.
I mean, it's just the simplest analogy I can come up with.
These government spooky, you know, CIA, you know, scientists and spooks and whoever, you know, they're blackmailed, they're paid well, they're on the payroll, you know, but they're part of this juggernaut that's just big and powerful.
It's got a lot of horsepower behind it, you know, but it's got one eye.
We've got slings.
Wow.
And we're getting better every day.
It's slinging.
I'm going to sling, try to hit that eye.
They don't have the three eyes.
You need all three eyes to see.
I mean, the third eye isn't really an eye, but it's kind of a sensory organ.
This is a real David and Goliath situation.
These people have lost some of their humanity.
Right.
Everyone involved with the secrecy has lost some degree of their humanity.
They really have.
And they're not getting any better from what I can see.
I don't see anyone from the inside.
I don't see anyone, the four star admiral, or anyone going, you know what?
I'm going to have it come to Jesus.
You know, those guys are right.
You know, I've seen no one like that.
Wow.
Yes, we get a colonel.
Yes, we get a captain.
We get a sergeant here and there.
You know, we don't get the general officers.
We don't get the corporate CEOs.
We don't publicly.
I hope that changes.
I hope the work we do changes because I told you, and I'm going to tell your viewers now, You may not have as many subscribers as a lot of people out there, like Ryan and Rogan and everyone with millions, but there's a lot more people that watch your show than I realized.
They're not going to sign up or be on your comment section or your chat or whatever it is.
All right.
But they watch because we're talking about serious things.
Not that other people in the disclosure movement aren't.
It's just everyone's different.
But we're a little more nuts and bolts.
And that appeals to some people.
Because if you talk about the Klingons and Romulans and the higher dimensions and motherships made of black goo and all that stuff, you're going to lose some of your audience.
Some of that DC conservative military audience.
They're watching you.
And that's a testament.
So I just want to.
It's fascinating.
Yeah.
And I appreciate it.
I'm not going to call you up.
Don't mention my name, Warner.
Damn your soul.
You're a loose cannon, boy.
I would also say that people would be surprised by who is watching the show.
But I think it is what you're talking about is very important here because you're getting to the heart of it.
Patton Was In The Know About Jets00:06:42
And this takes me back to a conversation that you had.
When you told me about you and your grandfather, Paul Mellon, and him sharing with you sometime after the war, there he is in Germany, looking out at a craft with others, and the craft is there and it's over a football field and a half in diameter.
Can you tell me how that came to pass and how he told you that?
Yeah.
It was 1985.
I remember because I was at UVA.
And I was interested.
I was thinking about going to the Navy and the Marines, as my dad suggested.
I love.
All the military stuff, I didn't decide to go racing, but um, my grandfather didn't have a great intimate relationship with the women in his life, but he understood he liked talking to my dad and myself.
Uh, he and my dad and him were best friends.
Um, but when dad married Liz Taylor, Paul Mellon said, Look, I can't be seen with you anymore, she brings too much light on me.
Oh, don't ever mention me, don't yeah, dad was heartbroken, he told me that.
But Paul Mellon needed to keep a low profile.
And so, when I had my discussion with him at his house in Virginia, you know, we were, I had a martini, he had three.
I think he could handle them better than I could.
But, you know, he said, I said, tell me about Patten, because I had done a history paper on Patten.
And he's like, well, there's a lot in the history books, they don't write about Patten.
You know, he didn't say he was murdered, but he said, you know, it was very suspicious.
But he said, you know, I worked for Patten.
And I said, yeah, were you in the OSS?
He said, yeah, while Bill Donovan.
Alan Dulles and I, and a couple other people, we were with Patton in certain areas in May of 45 when it was all coming to an end, when the Germans were surrendering and everything.
And I can place Patton in Czechoslovakia right around that time, early May of 45.
And my grandfather said, We were in Czechoslovakia, not Germany.
I'm assuming it was Pilsen, I'm assuming it was the Skoda Works, the SS E 4 division.
Because he said we went in and we saw this hangar and we talked to some German scientists, you know, they were hiring them.
And I said, Well, I knew that, Project Paperclip.
It was not that well known in the 80s, but there were a couple books.
And I read one of them because he gave it to me.
He says, I was part of this.
I'm proud of it.
And I was proud of him for being part of it.
And we were hiring the Germans.
My God, the Russians were on the rampage.
We had to do it.
And he said, We went in with Patton.
I think General Marshall was with him, but I'm not sure.
I can't remember.
But Patton had a couple generals that worked for him that he, Trusted.
It might have been, oh, I forget, but there was a couple that were close to him that were probably read in by the OSS.
But he said there were MI6 people there and there were CIC people there.
That was the US Army, it wasn't the G2, it was the CIC.
But there was a group of people and they were being shown the Wunderwaffe weapons.
And I said, oh, I know about some of that, you know, the V2 rockets, the guided missiles, and the television guided.
And he said, yeah, we saw all that.
We saw some jet engine designs.
Aircraft on the drawing boards.
He said Patton got angry because there was on one of the drawing boards in a studio a drawing of the, I think it was a transonic, supersonic, transonic ramjet bomber to bomb America.
Oh.
There were several America bomber programs.
Yes.
He said like 50 programs for one operation.
He said Patton got mad at God damn it.
Patton could speak fluent German and fluent French.
Okay.
And my grandfather was fluent in French, and he said they had great conversations.
But they went into this place where all the rocket parts were, and he said there was a really large disc shaped aircraft.
Now, I want to say he said it was 100 meters or so in diameter.
I think that was correct, but he was ballparking it.
He said it was really big.
And in fact, he said some of the American officers kind of laughed.
They were like, they're going to get this thing off the ground.
It's got no, where are the jet engines and everything.
But he said Patton was in the know.
He and Donovan knew that it was.
Probably an exotic propulsion unit.
And he said it was big.
And it had the drum structure on top and it looked like a flying disc.
He said it was very big.
But it was also jumbled up with all the V 2 rockets.
The Germans had just piled all this stuff in a hangar, hoping the Allies might not find it.
Well, maybe that the Allies did for the Russians.
But he said, and I wrote it in my novel that I'm writing now, that they met with some of the German scientists left over that were still there.
Most of them had fled.
Right.
And I also heard a story that Kamler made it back to the States with the Bell on a ship with Patton.
But I'm not sure about that.
That might have been General Peter.
Oh, God.
One of Patton's trusted two three star generals.
His name is Peter something.
I think he probably, if Kamler did go by ship with the Bell and some other gear from.
I think it was either Le Havre or maybe even Hamburg, something like that.
They used the rail system to get all that stuff out and brought it back.
And they had an army train waiting for them at Newport News, and it went all the way to Wright Field in Ohio.
So the bell, maybe some disk stuff, all the cool junk, it was piled on a couple of trains, big trains.
Incredible.
Wow.
Unbelievable.
They didn't know exactly what they were looking at.
We do now.
I wish I had a drawing.
You know, he didn't draw it or anything, but it kind of reminds me of some of the Hanbu drawings.
It did have a drum structure on top.
And so he says, I said, what was it?
It had the jet engines like the Flugelrad.
You know, he said, no, no.
This was something else altogether.
And so at the time I thought, oh, it's just another German wacko project.
But then later on in the 90s, little bits and pieces started coming out about the story of.
Neuschwabenland.
John, absolutely amazing.
UFO Drawings With Jet Engines00:00:23
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