Donna Presley, Elvis's first cousin, reveals Vernon Presley's secret belief that his nephew was murdered, citing Vernon's instruction to keep autopsy documents sealed until 2027 and his suspicion of those close to Elvis. She defends Vernon against film portrayals as a protective figure who feared public exposure would tarnish the legacy, while noting Elvis planned to remove Colonel Parker before dying. The interview suggests a potential conspiracy involving insiders, contrasting the official heart attack narrative with family warnings about "SOBs" still walking free, leaving the true cause of death shrouded in decades of silence. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, WAV2VEC2_ASR_BASE_960H, sat-12l-sm, script v26.04.01, and large-v3-turbo
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Growing Up Around Elvis00:09:46
Hello, everyone.
This is Dark Journalist with a very special interview for you with Donna Presley, Elvis Presley's cousin.
Donna is coming forward tonight to set the record straight on what Elvis' father and her uncle, Vernon Presley, had told her in private.
That Elvis was, in his words, taken out.
And a secret document release set for 2027.
Please join us now.
Donna, it is great to have you here with us.
Well, thank you, Daniel.
It's a pleasure to be here.
You know, I'm familiar with your book, which I think is a very touching sort of memorial to your time with Elvis, who is your cousin.
And I wanted you to get into that.
I think it's great that you're coming out now and adding more on the record, putting more out there so people will know, especially about some of the thoughts that your uncle had.
But can you give us that background of you and Elvis and the family there?
Because you're very close.
You're actually the first cousin.
That's correct.
My mom and Elvis' dad were brother and sister.
And so I grew up, you know, around Elvis.
I mean, from the time I was 10 years old, I spent all my summers at Graceland.
And then in 1967, when he bought the Circle G Ranch, my dad started to work for him.
He oversaw the property, both properties.
And we moved on to the Circle G and lived there until 1969 when he decided to sell it.
And then in 1969, we moved up onto the grounds of Graceland and lived right behind the house there.
And my parents lived there till around 1985, several years after they opened it to the public.
And I lived there until about 1971 when I, you know, married and had my own home.
That's right.
Because Elvis is about 20 years older than you.
So he's almost like a big brother figure.
15 years older.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, yeah, I mean, you know, Elvis was such a presence and such a warm and loving and wonderful human being.
He always wanted to keep family close.
You know, it mattered to him because we were his kind of his safe place.
You know, we were his safety net because he knew that the family always loved him as Elvis.
It didn't matter if he was Elvis Presley or not.
And in his line of work, oftentimes that's quite a paradox for him because, you know, you have a lot of people that want to be with you, but you don't know if they're there because they're of Elvis or because of Elvis Presley.
So he, you know, he kept all the family very close to him.
That entourage around him could at times be healthy or unhealthy, depending on how many good members of the family were kind of a good buffer.
But some of those guys we know came out later with books and the Memphis Mafia stuff and all that.
You can see that there's a mix there of people who are really sort of loyal and then others who are kind of on his coattails.
Right, exactly.
You know, I mean, there were some horrible things written and said about Elvis.
And, you know, Elvis was very much about loyalty.
And he was loyal to everyone that was in his family and into his inner circle, extremely loyal.
And he just, that was the one thing that he asked for in return loyalty.
And for them to come out and say these things, you know, it was very hurtful to him.
It hurt him a lot.
It really did.
Especially since he basically was responsible for their livelihoods and all their success and everything.
Indeed, yes.
And I mean, you know, the things that he did for them and, you know, paid bills for them, bought homes, cars, and, You know, took them into his world and into his life, and you know, gave them a fabulous life.
And then for them to come back and say terrible things about him, hurtful things about him, it was quite devastating to him.
Do you ever remember, because Elvis was a star like there was no star in that period.
He's probably the biggest star of all time.
Exactly.
And do you ever remember him talking about that or what he thought of this kind of crazy world of fame that was dumped on him?
And I'm sure he loved the success, but did they ever talk about.
How overbearing the whole thing was?
Well, you know, it could be very difficult at times.
You know, it's like I was sitting in my grandmother's room one night and spending the night there, and our grandmother had gone into the kitchen to get something.
And so Elvis walked into the bedroom where I was, and he came over and sat down in the floor in front of me and was asking me, you know, about my life and who I was dating.
He knew I was graduating high school soon and was asking me about that.
And we were just talking, and he said, You know, Donnie, I envy you because he always called me Donnie.
And I kind of laughed and I said, Elvis, why would you envy me?
You're Elvis, you know.
And he said, Because he said, when you go out with a young man, you know that he's taking you out because he likes you.
He wants to go out on a date with you.
And when you have a friend come into your inner circle, you know it's because that person likes you.
He said, I don't have that luxury.
I never know if someone's with me because I'm Elvis or because I'm Elvis Presley.
And, you know, I was 18 at the time when he told me that.
And I thought, You know, I never really looked at it like that before.
So, but my mother had always said that Elvis was a bird in a gilded cage.
And I think that's the first time that I really understood what that meant.
Oh, absolutely.
And I guess it's by fate and some of the great gifts of his life that he had Vernon there for most of that.
And because Vernon is your uncle, I wanted to get some idea of what he was like because we know he was there in the background always with Elvis.
But you don't really hear much about who he was as a person.
Well, you know, you asked me about the film Elvis, and they portrayed Uncle Vernon as a very weak, very uneducated, and very money hungry kind of person.
And he wasn't like that at all.
He was very strong, he was very intelligent.
You know, he was the only thing that mattered about Money and Uncle Vernon was that he just didn't want to see Elvis taken advantage of.
He felt like a lot of people had taken advantage of him.
So he just wanted to protect his only child, you know, which is normal for most fathers, you know.
But, you know, they just portrayed him as being very money hungry.
And that wasn't Uncle Vernon at all.
He was very strong.
And often he would say, Elvis, you know, you're spending all this money on all these people and they're not, I feel like they're taking advantage of you.
And he said, I know, Dad.
But he said, you know, you see their wants, I see their needs.
And so that was.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, so that was the way it went.
You know, I mean, Elvis continued to do what he felt like he should.
But, you know, I thought this was a very, very bad portrayal of Uncle Vernon because it wasn't in the least bit true.
There's some other things about what Vernon told you that you want to put on the record.
We're going to get into those.
But I want to go back to this movie for a moment because it's kind of a mixed blessing when it came out because it got everyone, you know, back and to remember this incredible megastar that Elvis was and the really.
Fantastic, influential music that influenced everybody.
That's very true.
Yeah, so it did that, but the movie biographically just failed.
Would you say it failed to really capture his actual life and was more of a fantasy?
I agree.
I do.
Yes, absolutely.
And I do think that Austin Butler did a very good job.
You know, I think that he studied Elvis and you could tell that.
And it was beautifully done, but you know, it was also, it kind of opened doors to a younger audience, perhaps, which was a good thing.
But when the way that.
Him and the way they betrayed the family, I thought was not good at all.
So there's a, you know, it's kind of a two sided sword, I guess you could say.
Yeah, they were building in narratives there that were more story oriented and getting away from his life.
There's been so many movies about Elvis over the years.
Of course, they made a television mini series about Priscilla's book back all the way back in the 1980s.
When you see the whole kind of media portrayal of Elvis, what do you think is the main Thing that they don't get about his life and his passing.
Well, it's almost like they make a lot of times a caricature of him, you know, like he was just like a puppet, so to speak.
You know, I mean, Elvis was a very creative, very highly intelligent, very warm and loving person.
You know, he could look into the depths of your soul practically and he just knew how you felt.
And he always wanted to reach out to people and he was very kind and loving and warm.
Very creative.
And I think that they miss a lot of that.
You know, he was an ordinary man, but he was blessed by God to do extraordinary things.
And he broke every barrier there was to break.
And he brought people together, no matter what, you know, what race or religion or economic, you know, class you were in, everyone came together for the love of the man because of the talent and the passion that he poured into it.
Making Dreams Come True00:14:00
Yeah, absolutely.
And I guess what people are going to wonder when they think about your own life is what was it like for you being closely related and living at Graceland and just being right there when Elvis is in the middle of this kind of maelstrom of fame?
Well, I mean, it was amazing, you know, absolutely amazing.
I mean, there's nothing about it that was negative in any way.
We loved being at Graceland, we loved being on Circle G, and we were.
In constant contact and very close to, you know, our grandmother and Elvis and Uncle Brian.
Everybody was together.
Everybody, you know, got along and had a great time and a great life.
So it was absolutely amazing.
That's about the best way I can describe it because everything about it was fabulous.
He cared about all of us.
He wanted to make sure that everyone was taken care of.
And I don't mean monetarily, I mean spiritually, physically, you know, emotionally.
He wanted to make sure that everybody was.
On a good plane, you know, he loved to make people's dreams come true.
He saw my dad, he found out that my dad's favorite song was From a Jack to a King.
And so one day he opens the windows to at the Circle G Ranch to the little cottage there.
My dad was out there working in the yard and he sat down on the piano and sang From a Jack to a King.
Oh, that's great.
No, just things like that.
I mean, it was, you know, to me, I mean, to most people, it would mean huge, but to all of us, it was just.
Something that he wanted to do, but simply because of the fact that he knew my dad loved it and he cared deeply for my dad.
My dad had been in his life since he was about six years old.
So, you know, it was like just it's Uncle Earl.
That's who it is, you know, part of his family.
And this is something that he likes.
And so he wanted to make sure that that dream came true.
And there was another opportunity when dad was working on a lawnmower at Graceland and Elvis was out walking around.
He walked over to my dad and he said, Well, hey, Earl, what you doing?
He said, Well, I'm working on this lawnmower, but he said, I'm going to have to, you know, order a part for it from Wisconsin.
You know, I said, okay, whatever you need.
And about that time, because Graceland is close to the Memphis airport, there was a huge plane came over and it was flying low.
And Dad looked up at it, and Elvis looked up and he said, Daddy said, well, one of those days I'm going to get on one of those things, ride it.
And Elvis said, You've never been on an airplane?
He said, No, not yet.
Well, the next day, my dad, Uncle Vernon, and Mike McGregor are on a plane to Wisconsin to get a $2 part.
Wow.
You know, it's just.
Wow.
Yeah.
He wanted to make people's dreams come true.
He wanted to share that kind of experience that he was having.
Exactly.
I mean, Elvis said, you know, God has blessed me so greatly.
I'd be remiss in not giving back to what he's given me.
Did he, and he was good in a way that he had a philosophy about things.
He said to you, he gave you kind of pep talks at different times.
What did he have to say?
Well, this particular night, he was sitting on the floor among our other.
Conversations we'd had.
He also said, You know, Donnie, what do you want to do when you graduate high school?
And I said, Well, I'm not really sure exactly what I want to do.
I'm kind of up in the air about it.
And he said, Well, you can do anything you want and be anything you want if you remember these four things.
And I said, Okay, what are they?
He said, Always have faith in God, always have faith in yourself, be willing to work hard for what you want, and never let anyone tell you that you cannot accomplish your dreams because I'm living proof that you can.
So now, when I go out and I talk to people, I tell them what Elvis, you know, this advice that Elvis gave me.
And that no matter what age they are or what stage of life they're in, they can still accomplish their dreams.
Don't give them up.
You know, just keep plugging away because they can come true.
That is fascinating.
And great advice from somebody who came from the most, you know, kind of poor circumstances with his family.
And all of you came from Mississippi.
Yes, my family did.
Yes, most of them.
Yes, absolutely.
And the arc there from this kind of working class existence to this mega fame, I mean, it's quite an accomplishment on that scale, you know, never mind the musical genius that goes with it.
Most definitely.
I mean, you know, but, you know, my mom was nine years old when Elvis was born, and they lived next door to each other.
And so her book that we've been talking about, you know, takes you from before his birth up until after his death and so forth.
And, you know, she said that she said we were sitting on the porch of that little shotgun house, you know, in the swing.
And Elvis looked over at me and said, You know, Aunt Nash, and he was three years old.
He said, You know, Aunt Nash, one of these days I'm going to buy my mom and dad a big house and lots of cars.
And we know that that came true, but it also came true for a lot of other people because he bought a lot of other people homes and cars.
And, you know, he did so many things for so many different people.
You know, I he's been you know driving down the street and see someone you know that was broke down on the side of the road and he'd pull over and give them money or buy them a new vehicle just because he wanted to help.
And that's incredible, yeah.
Had a great sense of the kind of neighborliness he did, yes, yeah, and generosity seems to be what comes up in all of these different stories with him, which is remarkable when you think about it.
It is really because I mean, Elvis didn't think about you know what he gave or who he gave to, he just wanted to help other people.
And if he was buying cars and he was there was someone at and out on the car lot that was looking at a vehicle, he'd walk over and hand on the keys to it, say, Hey, this is yours.
That was just who he was because he wanted to give back and.
Really and truly, Daniel, the only thing that money meant to Elvis was what he could do for other people with it.
Isn't that fascinating?
Wow.
Wow.
It's hard to imagine in the period that we're in because you don't run across that very much.
No.
Fortunately, you don't.
You know, Elvis was respectful and kind to everyone, every single person.
And so if we would follow that in our lives today and be kind and respectful and caring to other people, we'd have a much better world.
And I always say that.
Because of who Elvis was and the life that he lived, not only was he the greatest star that ever graced the stage of his own stage, but he was also one of the greatest men to ever grace the stage of life.
And the principles that he grew up with, that he learned at his mom and dad's knee and our grandmother's knee, those were all passed down because I grew up with the same values.
But he was able to go out onto the world stage and become well known and famous, not only for his talent, but for the man that he was.
And that's why you see millions and millions of people today, and they're getting younger and younger each day that come to Graceland or that want to see, you know, hear or talk about Elvis because he made a profound difference in so many people's lives.
And he's still doing so today, 48 years after his passing.
It's incredible that that was the anniversary just back there in August.
You have taken it upon yourself to go over to Europe and talk to these various fan groups of Elvis.
And I find that very interesting because he himself was never able to make it over there, which is a great anomaly about his touring history and probably has a lot to do with his management and Colonel Parker.
But what is the kind of sense that you get over in Europe about how they feel because he basically invented rock and roll?
Yes, absolutely.
Yeah.
You know, I mean, the sense that I get is just such love and such devotion and such support for Elvis and for everything that he accomplished in life.
And that's professionally, but also for the man that he was, because he did touch them.
I've talked to people that said, you know, I was abused as a child, and the only thing that got me through it was Elvis's music or his movies.
Or, well, recently I had a letter from a young woman, and she said that she lived in Poland when she was seven years old, and that she heard one of Elvis's records, and she wanted to know what he was saying.
And so she went to her mom, and she said her mom knew a little bit of English.
but not very much.
And of course, at that time, English was banned in Poland.
And she said, then eventually they lifted the band.
And she said, I not only learned English, but now I went to university and now I'm teaching others English.
And she said, that one song and that knowing, just wanting to know what he said, I was so profoundly touched by him that it changed the trajectory of my life.
And now she's helping others.
What a legacy is that?
You know, you can't get any bigger than that.
That is incredible.
Do you, if you were to just take your own snapshot of his career, you know, we have this amazing period where he, you know, creates the rock and roll craze and everybody imitates him, etc.
When you get into the 60s and some of the management choices, because the early movies were quite good and he showed incredible talent as an actor, but then it gets later in the 60s, things get strange and also the environment changes.
The Beatles come in.
There's the whole hippie thing.
How did he respond to that?
Well, you know, Elvis thought that there was plenty of room for everybody.
And a lot of people thought, oh, well, he's jealous of the Beatles and so forth and their success.
But that's not true.
You know, he said there's plenty of room for all of us because there's so many different genres of music and so many different things that, you know, ways that you can, you know, not, you know, decide what, how you want to do it.
But, you know, and Elvis always said, just make sure you, you find your own niche.
But, you know, as far as the movies were concerned, you know, back then, the, Stars didn't always have the ability to choose what they wanted to do.
You know, it was kind of like the big studios, you know, were kind of like mega studios.
And so they just kind of cranked out things that kept making money.
And I think that probably they looked at it as like, well, if it's not broke, don't fix it.
So, right, right.
It's been successful.
But, you know, Elvis always wanted to be a serious actor.
And he certainly was, you know, had the acting ability and the chops for it.
So I think that had he lived, That would have been something he definitely would have gone into for sure.
And he worked with some of the greatest directors and stars.
Yes, he did.
Of the period.
But I think it's very interesting.
You have this incredible explosion and wave that he creates from Sun Records out.
Yeah.
And then they basically put him in the army in the middle of his career.
He's 23.
Yeah, yeah.
And he was like, you know, but, you know, there again, you know, he wanted to go and serve his country.
And he could have gone in with the USO or something along those lines, you know, but he wanted to be a soldier.
He said, you know, if I'm going to serve in the military, I want to be a soldier and be like all the guys.
And, you know, from that, he earned the respect of his fellow soldiers, but also of the people who were over him, you know.
And so I think that's so admirable that he did go and he did serve his country.
And he did it with, you know, as much gusto and everything that he possibly could.
He always, Met a challenge and he always overcame that challenge.
That's fascinating.
And he ended up producing great music, choosing it during that period and then coming back and recording it.
Exactly.
And it was a comeback special.
I mean, wow, what a show that was.
You know, that was amazing.
Yeah, it's amazing.
They had kept him off the stage almost a decade.
How unusual is that?
So they put him in the movies where I guess, you know, financially it was smart, but they kind of kept him away from the public.
That's true.
And he wanted to get back to that.
He loved being on stage.
He loved, you know, sharing that energy with his audience and seeing the fans and giving them love and receiving their love and energy back.
Right, exactly.
And this is a period that you can remember when he comes back and he starts touring again.
And you're a little older.
You're in your teens, you're going into your kind of college years.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's true.
And, you know, I mean, he did it, like I said, every time he loved the challenge.
He loved it.
And so every challenge that he had, he would meet with great gusto, with great passion.
And he would conquer each and every one of them.
And he became, he always wanted to be the best at anything that he tried.
So he worked hard.
And that was in along with those, the advice that he gave me, you know, have faith in God, have faith in yourself, and be willing to work hard for what you want.
And he did work very, very hard.
I mean, when he was in Vegas, he was doing like two and sometimes three shows a day, which is phenomenal, considering the fact that, I mean, he gave his all on every show that he did.
Touring and Career Challenges00:05:46
Yeah.
Oh, it's very demanding.
Environment.
There's no question about that.
I wonder how many stars today could do that.
Yeah, absolutely.
And it's interesting too because it seems like part of the management squeeze there.
And well, I'm going to ask you a couple of questions about Colonel Parker in a moment, but Parker is very interesting because he seems to have a gambling habit.
Yes, he did.
And so it seems like, you know, some of the profits there are going out the back door with his heavy duty gambling.
Some of the people around Parker would say he could lose a million dollars in one night.
Yeah, yes.
So, what kind of you know that creates kind of a pressure juggernaut on Elvis to go out and perform a lot to pay off the colonel's debts?
Yes.
Well, I, you know, there were times I think he said, Well, that's this is good for me.
Now, what are you going to do for my boy?
So he was covered too, you know, but yeah, absolutely.
And you know, Elvis did work a lot.
And, you know, I think there had he lived, I truly think that.
Well, I know because of things that Elvis had said around family and so forth that he was going to make changes in his life.
But then, of course, he passed away and those didn't happen.
It looks like two things were going to happen, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but he was going to remove Parker from management.
We were.
Yeah.
So do you think that's accurate?
I do think that's accurate.
Yes, absolutely.
I sure do.
And the hang up around Europe would be gone because that was always.
Parker's own reluctance based on his own situation in Europe.
Yes.
Maybe losing control of Elvis over there.
Oh, absolutely.
You know, I think that they would always had already started scouting places in Europe to, you know, for him to perform.
Isn't that incredible?
It's on the record that he was engaged at the end of his life to Ginger Alden.
And how did you, now you had been through his entire life back there with Priscilla.
Yes.
And, you know, it's always hard to speak on other people's relationships.
And yet you were there in that milieu around it.
How did you view Priscilla versus Ginger?
Oh, wow.
That's a good question.
Priscilla was, well, they were together, you know, married for only five years, you know.
And I always felt that Priscilla wanted more of a career, you know, than her own career.
A career, yes, yes.
I felt very strongly about that that that was what she was actually wanting and trying to garner, and was her own career.
I think that that's probably the reason that you know she she left and uh started you know seeing other men and and uh doing other things with her life, right?
And she she's a gigantic presence over things when people go back and look at his life because she showed up, she was so young when he met her.
And then eventually, Elvis did all these things to get her over to America from Germany, which is where her parents were stationed.
Right.
Did you have any impressions of Priscilla and her impact on Elvis's legacy in general?
Well, when she first came, she was rather a cold kind of person.
She wasn't a real warm and feeling person like our family was.
And she just kind of wanted to be a little bit separate.
And I felt like that she aspired to other goals and wanted to be in more of a celebrity.
Kind of era, you know, that kind of thing.
I see, I see, yes.
You know, as far as Priscilla taking over Graceland, that was Uncle Vernon when he became ill.
You know, he was in charge and we were sitting in the office one day because I worked with him in the office there behind Graceland.
And he said he was going to make Priscilla a trustee.
And I said, Uncle Vernon, are you sure that's what Elvis would want?
And he said, No, he wouldn't.
But now I have to think about Lisa.
And, you know, that's his only grandchild.
And he said, I have to think about her and her, what she needs and her legacy and her inheritance and, you know, make sure she's taken care of because I do know Elvis would want that.
And I said, Well, yes, of course.
And he said, So as her mother, I feel she will, I expect her to take care of that.
And so it was, that was how she became a trustee.
And then, you know, it was really meant to be just a kind of a, Temporary thing until Lisa was old enough to gain control of herself.
I see.
I see.
And Priscilla proved to be very business savvy with it and built it up over time.
Well, I think that she was certainly smart in opening it and she was smart in garnering the right people around her to guide her.
Yes, absolutely.
Do you have any anecdotes about Priscilla?
Because I know you spent time with her on a number of occasions.
It, I did.
I mean, we were much younger than you know, we were both at Graceland, so I did spend time with her.
Uh, you know, one funny story that we did share was I went to church with her one Sunday and she went to church with me.
Church Memories with Priscilla00:14:42
She was at that time Catholic, and uh, so I had never been in a Catholic church before, and so I walked in and I sat down and I thought, well, this is really neat.
They have a footstool here.
She said, it's not a footstool, it's a kneeling bench.
I was raised Assembly of God, so I hadn't seen anything like that.
So then we went to my Assembly of God church, and it was quite different from her, you know, because we sang and we clapped and, you know, things like that.
It was completely different than the Catholic Church.
And the funny thing was, since we sat on the back row, and there were some guys just down the row from us, and one of them sent her a note and asked her, said, you know, would you like to go to the movie on Friday night?
And she sent back the note saying, Well, that's very kind of you, but I'm seeing someone.
Well, when we left, we were really laughing about it because I said, Can you imagine if he only knew who you were seeing?
Oh, it was just a funny thing.
Wow.
There were times like that that we did have, but you know, there were other times too.
Oh, yes, yes.
And is that kind of like a Pentecostal church where it's very active and interactive?
And Elvis would have been exposed to that at a very young age.
Oh, yes.
That's what he grew up in.
That's what we all have grown up in.
And so that's where he started singing to begin with, was in the semi-god church there.
So in Tupelo.
Right.
There's a lot of singing and feeling the spirit and all that.
And Elvis could embody that.
Absolutely.
Way many of his concerts are kind of like a church performance, very much so.
That's that's very true.
And gospel music was very, very close to his heart.
And uh, you know, I mean, so many times people say, Well, you can't sing it, you can't sing a gospel song in Vegas.
He proved that he could, you know, he made a lot of gospel albums.
He did, he really did.
Incredible was his one of his favorite musics.
Was you know, because after uh, you know, there are a lot of times at home, uh, you know, when we'd have family gatherings that he would go and sit down.
Piano and sing gospel, and you know, all the family and different things would, you know, different people would, you know, kind of chime in and sing with him.
Or after a concert, he would get the guys on stage with him and they'd go up to his penthouse or back to Grayson, wherever they happened to be, and sing, you know, gospel songs till wee hours of the morning.
So it shows where the deep inspiration in him was.
Yes.
For that.
You know, he learned at a very early age.
To feel the music, and that's what gospel music did for him was to feel it, and then he took that and put it into all of his music.
So he sang his music all of it with passion.
I remember, um, yeah, he did How Great Thou Art, uh, there's a whole gospel series that he did.
It's interesting because one of the first Elvis songs I ever remember hearing was Old Shep, and then I read a story about the song about it being this kind of carnival song that he had heard.
And it's all, you know, this lament about this boy losing his dog and everything.
But the incredible emotion he puts into this little vignette about a dog, I think is sensational.
It comes with an actor's brilliance, you know, a drama's brilliant.
That feeling, you know, and passion that he has in him.
And I mean, Elvis created so many firsts that we're, you know, that are just passe to us now because we've so many times.
But, you know, I mean, you take the Aloha special and, You know, things like that.
He was the very first to do that sort of thing.
And now it's just a regular thing for us.
But, you know, he did so many, many things the first time.
So he really made a difference.
And, you know, in life in general, I mean, he was, you know, fashion and music and, you know, just standing up for being who he was and not being afraid of who he was.
I saw an interview with him one time when there was a journalist that was kind of.
Laughing at the fact that he was a southern boy and, you know, and all this kind of thing.
He said, Well, you know, I might not be enough for you, but I'm enough for me.
Oh, yeah.
Wow.
Oh, that's great.
Yeah.
So he knew where he was coming from.
He knew where he was coming from.
Yeah.
And that's the good thing about Elvis is because he always remembered his roots and he carried those with him.
And I think that a lot of people today want to tend to want to get away from their roots, you know, don't want to know that maybe they struggled in life and, you know, Financially, or whatever, but Elvis was very proud of who he was and where he came from, and the people who you know taught him to be the man that he was fascinating.
You, um, I wanted to ask you in your own life if you had ever felt kind of, um, you know, targeted by people because of your connection with Elvis.
And if that, I remember hearing something about you talking about a very difficult relationship, and I remember thinking, Oh, I wanted to ask her.
If that, if that, those types of people were around and glomming onto you because you were in that circle?
Well, there were times, you know, for the most part, you know, it didn't happen, but there were times and people that came into my life that would, you know, it was simply about the fact that I was, you know, a Presley family member.
So, but you know, you try to learn from that and go beyond that, you know.
Yes.
Oh, yes.
Elvis was very protective of the family in so many ways.
I remember when I was 19, I was engaged to a young man and I took him over to Graceland to meet our grandmother.
And Elvis was home during this time and he and I were sitting out in the jungle rooms, you know, area.
And so Elvis walked over and, you know, patted me on the head.
Hey, Donnie, how are you?
And I said, I'm fine.
He said, Well, who's this?
And I said, This is my fiance, and he said, Fiance, because I was just 19, and uh, I said, Yeah.
And so he sticks his hand out and says, Hi, I'm Elvis Presley, and uh, you know, the guy shook his hand and he said, Well, tell me, um, so when are you and Donnie getting married?
Well, I know that the young man meant it as a joke, uh, because he was probably nervous, but it didn't come out that way, so he said, Well, when she can support me into the style which I've grown.
I thought, Oh no, this is not going to end well, and so Elvis.
I could see this muscle in his chin, you know, kind of like clenching.
Oh, okay.
Nice to meet you.
And he walks out of the room and goes straight to my grandmother's room.
Well, the next morning, I had a phone call come to Graceland.
So, like I said, we were living at the back, you know, and so I walked slowly over to Graceland because I knew what it was going to be about.
And I walked into our grandmother's room and she said, Sit down, I want to talk to you.
And I said, Okay.
And she said, Alice wanted me to give you a message.
He would have given it to you himself, but he didn't want to see you cry.
Oh, he said to tell you he was not in any shape, form, fashion going to let you marry that young man.
Wow.
I have to do it.
She's not marrying him.
So, which, you know, I thought, well, he's a lot wiser than I am about the situation.
So I did break up with him.
But yeah, I mean, it was just things like that.
He really, really cared about me and what he thought might be a big mistake for me.
Wow.
That's great.
Making the interference in the background there.
I wish you'd been around long enough to be around with some of the other relationships.
Then your mom was Nash?
Yes.
And what did your mom think about the whole kind of Elvis taking off and becoming this big megastar?
Well, we were all, you know, my mom and all of us were extremely proud of him.
I mean, who wouldn't for everything that he had accomplished and everything he had done?
But, you know, we just kind of took it in stride.
It was just.
Who he was, and it was part of his life, and so it was a part of ours.
So it was just, he was just Elvis to us, you know.
The fact that we would go in and out of gates and, and you know, things like that, and have fans sitting around, you know, just for a glimpse of anybody who knew him, you know, or had anything to do with him.
So incredible.
The um, when you go into this era of the mid 70s, like we were talking about, this great demand on Elvis, there's too many shows.
And he, there are a number of medical conditions he's developed from that incredible schedule.
When you get into that period, he also was getting death threats from some mysterious person out there.
That's right.
Tell us a little bit about that and leading up to later in his life.
Well, you know, of course, he told us all about it.
You know, he said that he had gotten some death threats and, you know, they were taking it very seriously.
And I think the FBI got involved and, you know, the guys.
You know, we're definitely carrying guns and, you know, to protect him that were around him and so forth.
And I remember he's saying that, you know, he was always kind of nervous when he walked out on stage at that time because he thought, you know, he shoots me, you know.
And I know one time they said, you know, that he was on stage and he was talking about that somebody yelled out to him and he said he kind of knelt down on his knee, you know, so, you know, kind of not giving him a standing target.
And the guy said, hey, I was saying such and such song.
So he sang that, but, you know, it was a scary time.
Wow.
Scary situation, and at the time he was he had a beeper on him that was connected to the hospital, and there was always an amulet standing by that should anything like that occur, that they could get him to the hospital.
That's extraordinary.
Um, and you know, when you're that much in the public, when you have someone targeting you, um, the circumstances leading up to his, I guess I should ask you first off, what was the last time that you spoke to Elvis in that period before he died?
Uh, probably a week or two before he passed away, you know, I wouldn't.
I was often practically every other day, I was at least at Grayson and would go in and see our grandmother and so forth.
And I had come over and gone into uh grandma's room.
And uh, before I got to her room, Elvis was coming down the stairs into the kitchen, and so I ran into him and and you know, he's hey, Donnie, and and how are you doing?
And I said, I'm fine, and you know, all this just regular you know, talk, you know, and uh, so I told myself.
Going in to see grandma, and he said, Okay, and he said, I'll see you later.
And I so I walked into grandma's room, and that was that was it, never dreaming that would be the last time I'd ever seen the lot.
Wow, uh, I can only imagine the shock, yeah.
Um, the um, the that period, and he at that time he was with Ginger and she was there, she was actually at Graceland when he passed away.
Did you have any impressions of Ginger or what kind of a life he was going to have with her?
To be honest, I think that my opinion that, and from other family members that have told me, that Elvis was going to make a change in that department.
And it's not only his professional, but his personal life as well.
I see.
I see.
And so do you think that she was very much like Priscilla in some ways?
Sort of like he was looking for another Priscilla?
No, I don't think he was looking for another Priscilla.
I mean, Ginger was a very, very pretty young woman, you know, and, you know, they connected on some level, although she was quite a bit younger than he was.
But, you know, I really can't say.
I wasn't.
She was okay.
That's all I can really say.
I don't really want to go any further than that, you know.
Yes.
Yes.
To me, she was a little aloof, you know.
Right.
Yeah.
Person, in my opinion, that yeah, and in other family members, yeah, I see, yeah, she didn't have the big family embracing personality, yeah, she didn't, not to us, no, we didn't see that part of her, yeah.
Um, do you think Elvis, with Lisa Marie and you know her in his life, do you think that changed him as a person?
Oh, definitely, he was absolutely just totally in love with his little girl, you know, she was absolutely.
The joy and the light of his life, you know, and he wanted to be there for her.
He wanted to be a good father.
He wanted her to grow up with the same values that he grew up with, that he was raised with.
And so, yeah, I mean, did he spoil her?
Yes, absolutely he did.
But I have a two year old granddaughter, and her daddy spoils her too.
So, you know, that comes with it.
But yeah, he did spoil her.
But, you know, she was the spitting image of him.
She had such a great wit, you know, and she was just precocious, which he loved that, you know, because he was a little bit of a rebel himself at times.
Um, you know, I remember him saying that, um, she was pushing her little buggy around, you know, and and uh, and she was saying, Oh, Elvis, Elvis, like that.
She had seen him walk downstairs and said, Elvis, Elvis, you know, he started laughing.
He said, Honey, don't call me Elvis, I'm your daddy.
She's okay, you know, and it was just funny, those kind of things, you know, and you know, sitting in the floor, you know, cutting out paper dolls with her and so forth.
I mean, you don't think of him in being that way, but that was just who he was.
He was just so loving and so.
So Caring, just absolutely adored everything about Lisa Marie and and the ground she walked on oh wow, yeah.
And she well, she had a remarkable, uh career herself.
Michael Jackson Connections00:03:06
She, she went on and and we lost her too early.
Yes, it's extraordinary but um, one of the things I wanted to ask you in relation to Lisa Marie is when she got married to Michael Jackson.
I mean, did you have any feelings about that?
Did you think that she was being used in some way, or did you have any knowledge about what was going on there?
Well, no, actually, I didn't feel like she was being used.
To me, I looked at it as two people that grew up in a fishbowl that were, you know, famous beyond anybody's dreams.
I see.
I think that they had an empathy toward each other, you know, and understood each other because they both grew up in the same kind of situation, you know, being thrust out into the whole world and the whole world loving and adoring you.
And that's a lot of pressure.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Michael Jackson was in the same kind of maelstrom of success and fame.
And so that is fascinating.
They had a lot of that in common.
There is the comments from Priscilla herself about Michael suggest that she felt that he had attached himself to her.
So I just wondered, you know, if anybody had that impression of him.
But it certainly was big news at the time.
Yes, it was.
It was big news, very much so, you know.
But, you know, I.
I just kind of looked at it as like, well, they just found each other in this big fishbowl of life, you know, and they have similar backgrounds and they've both kind of just been put out there to the world to see.
And everything they say, everything they do is documented, you know, and there for criticism or for worship, you know, whatever, you know.
But it had to be incredibly hard for both of them.
And then, of course, you know, Lisa lost her dad when she was nine years old.
And so she felt she lost her compass, she lost her rudder.
And then, from her own words in her book, you know, she said she felt unloved and alone and like a pawn, and, you know, grew up with nannies and so forth.
And so, and that broke my heart because she was very much loved.
And I blame myself for not reaching out to her because the last time I saw Lisa Marie was when she was about 13 years old.
And, you know, she was, you know, the family was kind of pushed aside.
We never, you know, I never saw her.
Now, she was close to Patsy, my first cousin.
She was a double first cousin.
But, you know, other than that, the rest of us know.
And so, you know, I never reached out to her.
And I blame myself for that because I feel like, you know, she would have had a much easier, better life if she'd been given the values and so forth and growing up around the family that Elvis grew up in, you know, and been given those family and values and love and closeness and, you know, just being guided by that.
Oh, absolutely.
Family Secrets Revealed00:09:27
Yeah.
Well, you had that great time with her when she was young.
It is so easy to lose touch when you are older with somebody experiencing that kind of career.
In some of the kind of resurgence of what you're doing now, you have come out and said something which I found absolutely a bombshell in the middle of all this, because at the time when Elvis died in 1977, there were a lot of questions around it, but it was basically assumed.
Well, he lived a hard life and through over dependence on medications, he had a heart attack.
But that's not the full story, is it?
No, it isn't.
No.
I was sitting with Uncle Vernon one day in the office and he would come in.
I mean, for all intents and purposes, the day Elvis died, Uncle Vernon did too, you know, because his heart was just broken and every breath that he took was just, it was like he was going to be his last.
I mean, it was like an effort.
And he would come into the office and his desk was beside mine.
He would lean back in his chair and he put his feet up on his desk, and he had kind of a almost straight sight to the meditation gardens.
He would just look, stand here, stare at it.
He said, You know, my baby's laying out there in the ground, and these SOBs are up walking around that killed him.
Well, I was thinking it was like the pressures and so forth of that.
And so I said, Yes, Uncle Bernie, it's so sad.
It's awful.
It's hard, you know.
He said, No, you're not understanding me, Donnie.
And I said, No, sir, I guess I'm not.
And he said, No, he said, I truly believe that Elvis was murdered.
And I was blown away by that.
I mean, I was shocked.
And I said, I picked up the phone.
And I said, Then we need to call the police.
He said, No, no, no, put the phone down.
And I said, But Uncle Barney, he said, Put the phone down.
So I put it down.
And he said, I'll handle it the way Elvis would want me to.
Because at the time, you know, we were talking about Elvis being, you know, threatened.
And he had always said to the guys, if something happens to me, if he gets me, you get him.
Because I don't want him up walking around becoming famous for saying I killed Elvis Presley.
So Uncle Vernon said, I knew that Elvis would want me to handle it in house, and that's what I'll do.
And I said, Do you know who?
And he said, I have my ideas, but he said, I'm he said that's I've said too much already.
He said, I you don't need to get involved.
I want you just forget about it and be done with it.
Just let me handle it, I'll take care of it.
So, uh, it came lunchtime, and I always went back to my mom's mobile home back behind the house there and had lunch.
And I was telling her, I said, Mom, Uncle Vernon really shocked me today.
And she said, How?
And I told her, and she said, Yeah, I know.
And I said, You knew?
And she said, Yeah, he he's uh told us that.
And she said, Just leave it alone.
I said, but mom, and she said, Donna, leave it alone.
She said, let Vernon handle it.
You're a young woman.
You've got two small kids.
if they can get Elvis, they can get anybody to leave it alone.
And she wouldn't talk about it anymore.
Proud of all.
Well, the suggestion there is that the danger was palpable because Vern knew who it was.
Well, he had his ideas.
Yes, definitely.
He hired a private investigator.
There's a few things that he did.
He kept some files about Elvis's autopsy not to be released until 2027.
Is that right?
That's correct.
So something might come out there that will let us know what he was telling you in confidence, I think that might be part of it.
Yeah, I mean, I don't know for sure because I wasn't privy to those papers and so forth.
But, uh, and I when he said leave it alone, I left it alone, you know.
But sure, yeah, uh, but I'm hoping so.
Yes, I really do to clear that up because he certainly felt that way until he died.
Well, uh, there is a suggestion in all of it that there is a big clash on the business side in the background.
And that somehow this is related, where he was saying, I don't need this anymore.
And they were thinking there's some way for us to eliminate him for that decision.
Would you think that that's in the right ball field?
I think that's probably very possible.
Yeah.
And, you know, the fact that they could have used somebody that was close to him in some sort that could possibly help them carry it out.
I don't know.
I mean, I'm.
I'm sitting here just telling you what Uncle Vernon said and how he felt, and I can only be guessing at the rest of that.
Do you think, just from a speculation point of view, with Vern and how he felt about the colonel, do you think that he thought and he was referring to the colonel as being involved?
I think that possibility might have crossed his mind, yes.
I think possibly so.
And there again, I'm not making any allegations.
I'm just saying that I think that's very possible, but I know that he had.
Thoughts and he had ideas about what he thought might have happened, but he would not tell me about them because he said, I've told you too much and you don't need to become involved.
It's too dangerous.
Well, he was so close, you know, being there at Graceland, and it feels to me like there was a reason he was so suspicious.
And it's funny because what I heard, and I'm not sure if this is accurate, but that he launched an investigation within the first two days.
He did.
So he certainly had reason to do that.
Yeah, he truly felt in his heart that there was more to it than what was told and what happened.
So, yeah.
How do you feel about it looking back?
Oh, I wish I had known and knew more so that possibly I could have cleared up some of this, and maybe whoever was involved with it would have been brought to task for it.
But then there again, remembering what Elvis said, you know, maybe Uncle Vernon was right in what he did and saying, you know, I'll handle it myself and handle it in house because that's what Elvis would want.
And you have the impression that Vern basically died of a broken heart just to, was it about a year later?
Yes.
And you were working with Vern at the end there and you were handling the fan mail and all the things from this incredible, because after Elvis died, it became, You know, even more off the charts, the response to that.
Yes.
What were your impressions of Vern in the end, who had done so much to kind of guide Elvis through the years?
You know, I sat there and watched him every day, you know, after Elvis's passing and just seeing that it was an effort.
You know, he tried to be, he would laugh and, you know, joke at times with family, but, you know, there was this emptiness and this sadness that you saw within him that would just never go away.
And, you know, his little breath was just, you know, like that.
And, you know, I know that Uncle Bernie had health problems as well, but, I think probably dying from a broken heart be a very accurate surmise.
Oh, absolutely.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
I mean, it's kind of an incredible thing of fate that he had you there working at that critical time because you viewed all of this stuff before and then the aftermath of Elvis's death.
And then what Vern was thinking about, you know, he was doing his own investigation into the death and thinking it was very mysterious and that somebody was behind it.
I guess in looking back at it, we can probably assume whoever was behind it, for example, if it was the Colonel, these people have died.
But obviously, there's some reason Vern held back certain information to be released in 2027.
Exactly.
And, you know, I remember the first day that I started to work there, you know, with Uncle Vernon.
He said, you know, there's only one rule that we have here.
And I said, what's that?
And he said, what happens on this hill stays on this hill.
I said, Uncle Vernon, I've grown up on this hill.
I know that.
He said, what's that?
But yeah, I mean, that's the way it was.
You know, he protected everything and he wanted to, you know, like I said, if he felt like Elvis wouldn't want him to make it known, to make someone famous for having done this, then he would certainly make sure that that didn't happen and he would do it in house and take care of it.
And I'm assuming that because he did live such a short time after Elvis, that.
What Happens on This Hill00:04:58
You know, that he took care of it in his own way.
And I'm thinking that possibly those papers that he had sealed until 2027 will contain some information, yes.
Absolutely fascinating.
And it's incredible that he put it there as a time capsule saying 50 years out, they'll be able to handle this.
Absolutely.
Well, by that time, anybody that would be involved would most likely be gone.
Yeah.
Wow.
And Elvis himself, for protection, would carry a firearm.
Yes, yes, he did.
That's interesting to me because.
He was fascinated by law enforcement.
And, you know, he would get badges from lots of people.
And he even became an honorary deputy.
And then there were times he'd go out and stop people, and, you know, you need to slow it down.
I mean, that sort of thing.
He really had a great respect for law enforcement and what they went through and the fact that they put their lives on the line every day.
And as a matter of fact, my youngest son was a police officer for many years.
And thank God he's not now, but, you know, he did.
You know, they do put their life on the line every day.
Oh, incredible.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Unbelievable.
And I remember there's the whole thing about Elvis and Nixon and him giving them an honorary DEA drug enforcement badge.
Absolutely.
You know, and I think he gave President Nixon a gun.
And, you know, who else could walk into the.
Oh, I didn't know that.
That's.
So, you know, I mean, it showed the power that he had and how people loved and adored him.
And that's the thing from all walks of life.
You know, I mean, there's been kings, and I was in London and we were doing a jailhouse rock, the musical.
And so I was the spokesperson for it.
And while I was there, I received a call from the Duchess of Devonshire.
And wanted me to come to high tea at her home.
And so I went to Chatsworth Castle and had high tea with her.
And she was just a huge Elvis fan.
And, you know, I was just amazed that I was sitting there with royalty, you know, and in her place and this huge castle.
And I called it the castle.
And they told me after I left there, because I did a BBC interview, they said, We don't call it castle, we call it home.
And I said, Honey, I'm from America.
That's a castle.
Oh, wow.
Wow.
Incredible.
Incredible.
Well, you've spent all this time going over Europe.
My last question for you is just this.
So, you have spent your life kind of lecturing and giving people that sense of the real Elvis, in the sense, and you record music yourself for a number of years.
Yes.
Yes.
I mean, I just want to be able to go to Europe or anywhere that I go and stand in his.
And bring him with me and let them get to know him as a person and the family that raised him and helped him to become the icon, the superstar that he became.
You know, because although he made the name Presley famous, you know, it was a whole family in front of him that gave him that name that taught him to be who he was.
And I think that's important.
Yes.
Walk that way too.
Yeah, incredible.
And I'd be remiss if I didn't ask you at the very end here.
We hear all these things about, you know, this big lawsuit with Priscilla and her daughter's handler, manager, people, and all of these things.
But the headlines are so driven in it.
And what's fascinating to me is it's almost driving more interest back to Elvis again, which is so interesting.
But do you have any opinions on the unusual and legal clash headlines and all of that stuff that you want to share?
Well, you know, I'm not privy to their business dealings or so forth, but I do know that, you know, that.
Elvis would be, Elvis would just want to make sure that Lisa was protected and taken care of, and all the other stuff would just be stuff.
It's just business and that kind of thing.
And I don't know, I'm not privy to their business partners, supposedly, and that Priscilla reneged or did something and it's calling them elder abuse or something.
But I think that.
I think that's probably something I should stay away from.
I see, yes.
What is the state of Graceland now?
Graceland in Riley's Hands00:03:55
Well, I mean, it's in Riley's hands, which I'm so thankful for.
I mean, she's a very intelligent and beautiful and, you know, obviously very savvy person.
And, you know, it's in her hands now.
And that's what Lisa would want it.
And I'm thankful for that.
And I think she's going to, she's done it.
Great job so far since she took over, and I think she will continue to do so.
So, I think the great things ahead.
Oh, wow!
Yeah, you when you were at Graceland, you experienced a ghost.
Yeah, I did at one point.
Do you want to just tell us that story and we'll close out with that?
I was just a young kid, I don't know, maybe 10, 11 years old.
And it was a shift between when the night maid came and the day maid left, you know.
And I was in my grandmother's room and the doorbell rang at the back.
And so grandma said, Donnie, would you go answer the door and let, you know, the night maid in?
So I left her room and I started walking in.
And there was a door between the hallway there and going into the kitchen.
And there was carpet, but then there was tile floor into the kitchen.
So I opened the door and I was walking and I heard footsteps behind me.
And I stopped and I turned around because I thought Grandma was behind me and there wasn't anybody there.
So I started walking again and I heard the footsteps and I stopped again.
There's still no one there.
So I run to the back door and I open it and let her in.
And I run back to Grandma's room and I said, I was telling her because I was frightened, you know, and I was telling her about that.
She said, Oh, honey, don't worry about that.
She said, That's Gladys.
She walks this house all the time.
She won't.
Oh, wow.
Elvis's mother, who died also too young.
Yes, absolutely.
Incredible.
I believe it.
I believe she was there.
Yeah.
Was it scary?
It was for me as a child, but then, you know, after she explained, I was just glad she won't hurt you, then I was okay.
I was all right with it, you know.
But yeah, you could hear things, and at times, certainly, and it made you wonder, and you think about, you know, the spirits are still there.
And I remember when my mother passed away, and my oldest son had a really, really hard time with it.
And So I was really concerned about him.
And he got up one morning, walked into the kitchen.
He said, Mom, I'm going to be okay now.
And I said, What do you mean, son?
He said, I saw grandma.
Sorry.
I saw grandma last night.
Wow.
Incredible.
You had a dream about mom.
He said, No, ma'am.
I was wide awake.
And she was standing at the foot of my bed.
And she said, I'm okay, baby.
I'm happy.
Let me go.
He says, So I'm going to be okay now.
Wow, that's incredible.
I do think God allows us, you know, spirits to come to us occasionally to give us messages.
I do, certainly.
It seems to me that there's something psychic in the whole Presley background and that there's some kind of psychic piece there.
It's hard to define it, but even he had a sense of kind of, you know, a destiny, a cosmic destiny over the whole thing.
Yeah, exactly.
You know, and someone asked me a question the other day.
I said, Well, do you think he was a healer?
And I said, Well, you know, I don't know that he was a healer.
He had a strong faith in God.
And I said, Every time that anyone was sick, especially grandma, he'd go into her room and he'd lay his hands on her and pray because we definitely believe in prayer.
The whole family has always done that.
And so, yeah, I mean, he definitely did have a sense about him.
And he could, like, look into your soul and read who you were and what your needs were.
And that's what he told Uncle Vernon when, you know, Uncle Vernon said, Well, they're taking advantage.
He said, Daddy, you see their wants, I see their needs.
The Healing Power of Faith00:01:37
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Well, that's fascinating with the laying on of hands, too.
That's a very deep religious healing experience with the healing hands.
It's like the healing hands of Jesus.
Yeah.
That's incredible.
You know, I did some research on all of the different shows that Elvis had ever done, and I found him performing in Roswell, New Mexico in 1954 in a high school.
Wow.
Amazing.
Before he was famous, everything.
He's in a high school in Roswell.
So that great crisscross in Elvis' career, way before.
I wanted to have one story ready for you.
It's been so great talking to you.
My God, I feel like I know so much more and we could talk so much more.
We'll get this out.
I want to hear more about what you're doing.
I don't know if you plan to do an update on the book, but if you are, please let us know because everyone's going to be interested in that.
Yes.
You will.
Thank you, Daniel.
Yes, absolutely.
And if people want to follow up with you, They can see me at Donna Presley Official YouTube.
DonnaPressley.com is my website.
So, yeah, they can get me there either place.
That's incredible.
What a delightful overview of your time with Elvis and the whole family dynamic.
And we appreciate all the work that you're doing, bringing transparency around the great things that he brought forward there.