Daniel Liszt and Joseph Farrell examine President Trump's potential nationalization of Lockheed Martin to reclaim UFO secrets from Skunk Works, linking this shift to controlled fusion and AI energy needs. They analyze alleged billion-dollar bearer bonds featuring JFK seized in Italy, tied to Vatican-linked "Money World" and a hidden financial system collateralizing lunar and Martian resources against $17 quadrillion in toxic assets. Farrell argues these bonds, alongside Apollo's exotic propulsion from "paperclip Nazis," reveal a secret space economy necessitating JFK's removal, suggesting current Mars plans are unfeasible without such advanced technology. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, WAV2VEC2_ASR_BASE_960H, sat-12l-sm, script v26.04.01, and large-v3-turbo
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Kennedy, Obama, and Lockheed Control00:14:37
Joseph, it's great to see you, sir.
Good to see you, Daniel.
Thanks for having me back.
I know that we've been talking about some things here in the pre interview, and how we're going to get them into this episode is going to be a masterwork.
I leave that entirely up to you.
Unbelievable.
Well, I'm going to start off with this, which is this new announcement.
And it was amazing timing because I had found this Lockheed Martin video that apparently they had.
Put behind some kind of paywall, and it was just their employees looking at it.
And it was about 150 views on this video site, way, way down the line.
And I was like, I've never seen this on their website.
And it was all about a space takeover.
And I put this video out into the public a few days ago.
And then right in that time loop, Trump came out, and it was announced that Trump is looking at ways to develop ownership over and basically take over Lockheed Martin and absorb it.
Into the government.
Now, with Lockheed's reputation around exotic technologies, the things you've covered, and the UFO file, what kind of move is this for Trump to basically nationalize a defense contractor like Lockheed?
I think you had it earlier when we were talking.
In fact, I think you mentioned it on the Facebook message to me that this was a way of reasserting control over.
The UFO technology and file, and I definitely think that that would be one of the priorities.
The other thing that I think may be working here is you know, I mentioned to you when you told that to me that it sounds rather like the Venetian state arsenal.
You know, Venice owned its own armaments production works, which was a corporation, but they owned it.
I think the thing that Trump may be trying to do here is also to reassert some sort of national security control over a major defense contractor so that other countries can't come in by major interests and thereby get the secrets.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, we've seen that go on.
And I suspect it's really just trying to keep.
Keep any proprietary secrets in American hands.
Interesting.
That would be my suspicion.
But I think definitely that you're correct that the UFO, you know, the black technology part of it is part of the equation here.
I mean, stop and think about it.
Ben Rich, we know all the stories about Ben Rich, who was the Skunk Works director there at Lockheed.
And all of those stories about him saying, oh, we found an error in the equation.
Equations and now we can take ET home, and we have stuff that would make George Lucas blush in jealousy, you know, all that sort of stuff that was attributed to Ben Rich.
Well, if you and I can find it out, so can the Communist Party of China.
Right.
You know, right.
Do we want people like that in possession of technology like that?
Well, probably not.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, Skunk Works is an excellent candidate for that kind of.
Redevelopments, reverse engineering style thing.
And although the idea got beat to death with reverse engineering this, reverse engineering that, the truth about the matter is there is a core aspect there, which obviously would take place.
There's enough on record through Sarbacher and other people about what they were doing with it.
Well, at another level that is not quite so sensitive, but still very sensitive, you also have Lockheed Martin's commercials that they did a few years back, I think maybe 10, 12 years or so ago.
Where they were bragging about their little fusion reactor that you can fit on the back of a truck.
And I remember commenting at the time that the fusion reactor that they're showing you in the commercial looks like a scaled up version of 50 Farnsworth's 1960s patents, the Fusitor and the Plasmator.
Oh, yes.
So, in other words, Lockheed Martin has been at the forefront of controlled fusion research.
So, if you're planning to roll that out, yeah, you'd want the government to.
If you're the government, you'd want to get your hands on it because that's going to make things much easier in the regulatory climate that's going to follow.
And I suspect, in that regard, Daniel, that Mr. Trump's recent talk and comments about sovereign wealth fund and so on, that he's trying to roll this out, I suspect that there's an energy connection to all of this, that they're interested in fusion for the purpose of powering.
Their AI data centers, you know, to quote Catherine Fitz, these things have the energy footprint of a panzer division.
You know, they're not exactly environmentally friendly.
So, your Lockheed nationalization, or at least getting a major stake in Lockheed such that you can exercise control of the company, I suspect it may be tied also to the AI and energy. parts of the story.
In other words, there's several objectives that they have in mind in this move.
And UFO technology certainly be part of it, fusion technology, energy, AI, you know, it's all connected as far as Trump is concerned.
Oh, that's interesting.
I saw some hints in it of going back and reversing the bad policy that came out of the Eisenhower administration, which was we'll move some of this over to private aerospace so it can't be tracked through the government.
Which was a Nixon initiative.
Right.
And really, by the end of his term, Eisenhower's like, oh, this is a terrible deal.
And part of the warning seems to be associated in the military industrial complex speech.
There seems to be a warning that relates to this idea of moving that exotic secret stuff over to the private corporations so that the presidential level can no longer reach it.
Yes.
I think that's definitely a possibility as well because you have to remember that when Eisenhower was briefed on the Strategic Integrated Operational Plan, the so called SIOP, S I O P, that Eisenhower was just appalled at what the military plan was.
And basically, you know, it was typical Curtis LeMay launch everything and turn the entire Communist block into a glowing radioactive cinder for people.
Wow.
It was just diabolically nuts, nihilistic.
And Eisenhower, I think that briefing on the PSYOP was what convinced him that, hey, we've got this military industrial complex and it's out of control.
Eisenhower had to beg, scratch, and insist on seeing that plan.
He wasn't even brought into it.
Wow.
And, you know, if the commander in chief is not.
Brought into the plan on how you're going to deal with a nuclear war, then you got a problem.
So, yeah, Lockheed, would they have their hands on some of the planning aspects of that?
You betcha.
I suspect the other thing you're going to, if Trump can do that, and if indeed, as you say, this is an effort to regain constitutional oversight of these corporations that have the defense technologies.
then I suspect you're going to see that followed up by similar initiatives vis-a-vis think tanks like RAND.
You mentioned the Space Command thing.
I suspect that's part of it.
So in other words, you're looking at a concerted effort to reassert government control over this out-of-control defense industry.
And I can see benefits to it, and I can see some real dangers to it.
Yeah, oh, yeah.
Yeah, the danger aspect.
When you take Lockheed under the actual umbrella of the executive branch, watch out.
Because does Lockheed then, like the OPC, get in there and spin everything around?
Exactly.
Yeah.
Exactly.
And it's not just, you know, under what branch of the executive are you going to put it?
Is this going to be under DOD or, like you say, Office of Policy Coordination?
Are you going to turn the corporation into a.
Covert operations corporation, you know, what are you going to do with it?
So I can see all sorts of problems with it.
It's fascinating to me.
One of the things that gets missed a lot in reporting generally, and I would be much happier if people in the public knew about the position the president, any president, is in in dealing with this stuff and what presidential powers are versus this other superstructure that he's going.
To battle with at some point.
I know in Professor Scott's work, which you've used in your own work, and I've had Professor Scott on the program, one of the things he tries to put across is that there was a deep state revolt against the White House that continued after the Kennedy part.
So that even when Johnson didn't do what they want, they're like, throw him over.
Nixon, he was with us for a while, but now he's trying to blackmail the CIA, get him out.
Carter will put him in.
Oh, look, he doesn't want to go to war with the Russians over Afghanistan.
Get him out.
And finally, when you get Reagan, you get some semblance back of the type of deep state that they want in control underneath while the president's up here.
But then they have problems with him.
So they try to take him out.
Right, exactly.
Where's Brother Bush when you need him?
And some of these other guys, I think like Clinton Obama, might be more out of the loop.
On some of these things, and that the Bushes have a much more, as you've said, they have a much deeper rush into the secret aspect.
I think if you look back at the list of presidents in this country, and please, folks, I don't want to get a lot of angry emails because I'm going to say something nice about Barack Obama, okay?
Just a warning alert here.
I'm not a fan of Obama, I'm just going to tell it like I see it.
If you look back at all the presidents from Kennedy up to Obama, Obama really is the odd man out.
Yeah.
Why?
Because there was a distinctive, definite change between the Obama that was running for president and the Obama that got into office.
When Obama was running for president, remember who he hired as one of his chief speechwriters?
Who was it?
Ted Sorensen.
Oh, yes.
John F. Kennedy's chief speechwriter.
Ted Kennedy was behind Obama instead of backing the Clintons.
Right.
Right.
So you had a definite Kennedy connection with Obama.
And then Obama gets elected.
And then there were these two extremely weird episodes.
And after these two episodes, Obama became a deep state player.
The first episode was that state dinner that he was holding at the White House for Prime Minister Modi of India.
And we were informed that two people crashed.
That state dinner and actually got into the state dinner through Obama's security.
Wow.
Now, that's, yeah, that's a while.
And then a short period after that, I forget, it wasn't very many weeks, maybe three or four at best.
After that, there was another public appearance of Mr. and Mrs. Obama at some function.
I forget where it was in D.C.
And again, someone managed to get through.
Her security to within about six feet of her.
Oh, wow.
So there's your security stripping, and there's your message.
And that's what I think it was a definite message to Barack Obama.
You know, play ball with us, and, you know, we will leave you and your family alone, but we can get to you anytime.
Yeah.
So I, you know, I've always thought that there was something that went awry because.
After these two events, the other thing that happened was you never heard about Ted Sorensen in connection with Obama again.
The Teal Narrative and ET Messiah00:14:05
Right.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
He was out of there.
He was out of there.
It's interesting to me because a lot of Obama's own people and people who would be supporting him on that side of things, on the Democrat side, they started to look at him in office very, very differently.
Yes.
And Professor Scott said, well, if you take his speech admitting that the CIA, Overthrew Mossadegh and apologizing to the Middle East for that versus the guy who's dropping all those bombs a year later, building up the troop numbers in Afghanistan.
It is a very different presidential style.
It is.
I definitely think that messages were sent to him and he decided to play ball and not go down the Kennedy route.
I actually think that.
That even Obamacare was a bit of kowtowing to that group of interests because that, again, that was rammed through literally overnight.
It was like the Federal Reserve, only we're going to do it with health care.
Right, yeah.
And we're still dealing with it.
And we're still dealing with it.
So, yeah, I definitely get the feeling that there was something going on behind Obama.
And Whatever it is that Trump is up to, you know, this is the frustrating thing about Trump.
So many of the things I think he's doing, at least in terms of the cultural agenda, I think are decent and long overdue.
Yeah.
But the thing that's not getting the attention and focus that it needs to are all of these initiatives that he's undertaking vis-a-vis sovereign wealth funds, surveillance states.
Palantir, you know, the whole gamut of what you see not being focused on by the media, particularly the alternative media, and then what he's actually doing.
Those things creep me out no end.
And I think what it betokens, at least as far as I'm concerned, is it's a bit of clever misdirection.
See, I'm doing all these wonderful cultural things that you elected me in office to do, but I'm doing all these other things that it's not going to matter.
What I do culturally.
Because if these things are implemented, you know, they can crack down on all that cultural stuff anyway.
Right.
And reverse it.
So I'm having some real mixed feelings and, you know, grabbing a hold of Lockheed Martin at the same time we're talking to Peter Thiel about Palantir.
And oh, by the way, Peter Thiel wants to give four lectures on the Antichrist in San Francisco.
I was going to ask you about that.
No one can take notes or any recording.
Oh, really?
Off the record.
I wonder who that sounds like.
Unfortunately, we should probably be investigating Teal's boyfriend jumping off of a balcony in Miami Beach.
Yes.
What's going on there?
Jesus.
Who knows?
It's so crazy.
But this is my problem.
You're.
You're sending so many ambiguous signals with these moves.
And it's very hard to pin down is Mr. Trump doing a good thing here or is he doing a bad thing here?
And I think it goes about 50 50 on this Lockheed Martin thing.
Interesting.
There could be implications that even he is not seeing on his side, but it's like, there might be the consideration well, if that's how they got it in the first place, I'll just reverse it.
Will have a stake in it.
That's how I'll get it back under the executive umbrella.
Yeah.
Yeah.
If you want to be Venice and create your state arsenal, realize in the process of creating the state arsenal, the state arsenal is going to eventually end up having a great deal of influence over the government.
So, I mean, six of one, half dozen of the other.
Well, it's interesting to come out of a completely depleted.
Central presidential authority of the Biden administration to move into the super active Trump second term executive orders.
I'm changing this, I'm changing that.
Now we're going to change it to War Department instead of Department of Defense.
It's the Gulf of America instead of the Gulf of Mexico.
All these kinds of things.
But what I see on the UFO side is interesting on this because you mentioned Thiel there, and Thiel has been calling in all of these.
Spiritual leaders and getting their like born again testimony and meeting them in these kind of like think tank meetings.
But he's also very, and I mean very active on the UFO side, funding documentaries, funding media spokespeople.
A number of people in the independent media are being funded directly by Teal, and I've had to tangle with them.
So, what is Teal moving in the religious aspect with the UFO aspect, and then he's sitting in the middle of our political process?
What's he doing?
I think he's making a play for control of the narrative.
Control the narrative, yes.
Right.
And by narrative, I would also include any eschatological or apocalyptic aspects of the narrative.
Right.
I think that's what he's trying to do.
And he, if I can draw an analogy, by calling in all these religious leaders, is what he's really trying to do is get their imprimatur.
On the narrative that he wants to promote.
Right.
I go back to what I've warned people over and over, and no one really understands what I'm talking about.
But I've been warning for several years now number one, the fulfillment is the deception.
And number two, every ecclesiastical institution within Christendom is co opted to a degree.
Every single one.
Oh, interesting.
Yeah.
Every single one.
I mean, look at Roman Catholicism.
It no longer looks Roman Catholic.
Compare what we have today to the way it looked in the 1950s, or for that matter, the 1650s.
Yeah.
It's a very, you know, woke Pope.
That was a mess.
Yeah.
And what's this one, you know?
American Pope.
Yeah.
Oh, yay.
Yeah.
No, I've been warning about this.
And to me, what Teal is doing is I think he's you're going to see more activity like this when these types of people, corporate leaders and so on, begin expressing a desire to integrate spirituality or trans you know, it's going to go by any number of names.
Pick your favorite label.
Yeah.
And integrate it into their narrative preparation stuff.
And I think this is a very, very dangerous thing to do.
Yes, absolutely.
And it seems like there's a level of insincerity with it as well.
Oh, yeah.
Really?
An evangelical, homosexual Christian that is giving lectures on Antichrist and nevertheless says that the system that he's building could be the beast system of Revelation.
Okay.
You've got all these, those four things alone.
Yeah.
Forget all the rest.
Just those, leave those four things on the table.
And what you, what they indicate to me is a tremendously morally and intellectually conflicted individual.
Yeah.
And this is not, this is not a guy I want to be taking any sort of direction for anything from.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, if he was just a political gadfly instigator, I would say big deal.
But he is so powerful.
Right.
Those billions have so exerted so much control.
And we know he has a major role.
Around the vice president as well, in terms of launching his career and things of that nature.
Right.
Or does he feel like he owes him?
You know, there's payback to Teal.
So, those things I think do need to be on the table in terms of figuring out what's going on there.
It's interesting to me that Teal is saying, well, you know, how do we integrate the whole thing around the UFO file?
And it seems to be his target is the Christian community.
Yeah.
Because they're maybe looking at the data and saying they're the ones who won't accept it.
He's targeting one particular segment within Christianity that may or may not have trouble with it.
But, you know, I'm from a very different tradition.
I mean, Reed C.S. Lewis, you know, one of the world's most famous Christian apologists, has no trouble whatsoever either with UFOs or, you know, other life, intelligent life forms out there.
This is not a new idea.
We've been dealing with it since, you know, the Apostolic Fathers.
It's not new.
Yeah.
Good, excellent point.
Yeah, it's just not.
Big deal.
Whoop dee-woo.
The problem that I.
The Pope was like, hey, I'll baptize them too.
Yeah, that is a very different question because what people are not remembering is: okay, are ETs bad or good?
Well, how do you tell if they are?
Yeah.
Sit down and talk with them, find out what they like.
What they don't like.
You know, are they going around murdering people because they disagree with them or not?
You know, basic stuff.
This is where I draw the line.
And this is why I think Teal is dangerous because I think what he's doing or what his, my suspicion is, what his inclination, Daniel, would be is to seek the simplistic solution.
Right.
ET is bad.
Well, that's simplistic solution number one.
ET is good.
Well, that's simplistic solution number two, you know.
And we know that one or the other is probably going to be what they're going to push.
Yeah.
So he's doing the data mining.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I thought the fact that he was bringing in all those religious leaders, it strikes me that the combination of that with Avi Loeb over at the Harvard Astrophysics Lab over here, that he's going in and he's saying, oh, Three Eye Atlas, you know, it's an ET powered spaceship heading for Earth.
We have to prepare.
And you know what?
There is going to be an ET Messiah.
He made this whole speech in Brooklyn about this ET Messiah.
And he said, they're all wrong.
You know, my kind of Reform Jewish friends are wrong on this, that they are coming in, the Orthodox people, and saying the Messiah is going to be a certain type of person.
I believe it's going to be an ET and it's going to say, you guys stop the war because there's so much real estate out here.
Those are weird things for him, the scientists, you know, the Talpiot Israeli intelligence scientist to be the lead man on.
It's weird, but it's not.
I mean, they've been built.
Again, like I keep trying to warn people, the fulfillment's the deception.
Oh, yeah.
You know, if you are a believer in Christ, you already believe that he's the Messiah.
That's the fulfillment.
And the reason why is something that no one else has been able to reproduce.
That's called the resurrection.
It's the kingdom of this world, the kingdom of death.
So anything established here is mimicry, breaking once and for all and for all eternity that cycle of karma.
That's what the resurrection is about.
And therefore, anything connected with Israel rebuilding the old temple, redoing Old Testament sacrifices and all of that, or believing that all of those Old Testament promises apply to the current nation state of Israel and not to Christ and therefore the church that's the heresy.
I can't be any plainer.
So, yeah, there, you know.
Speaking from the traditional Christian point of view, there's going to come a period where people like me are going to be hunted down and killed because we are not going along with this whole world system.
Peter Thiel, evangelicalism, any of it that you care to mention.
You know, rewrite books about demons in the acre, and we're quoting seventh century church fathers.
Oh, yeah.
So, you know, that's my point.
Wikipedia Citations and Howard Hunt00:03:57
These people are not going to the sources, and that should be the first.
Clue that there's something very wrong with what they're offering you.
Interesting.
Yeah.
And that's my problem.
Well, it makes sense.
Sure.
Open the books, boys.
Yeah.
Open the books.
That's the old history professor, and you're talking now.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Primary sources.
Oh, my life for a primary source.
You try the independent media, they can't even, you know, there's no footnotes anywhere.
It's just like, I grab the ideas in there and get the list.
Don't get me started.
No, there has been a.
This is part of the dumbing down in the American Quick Academy.
Students don't know how to footnote anymore.
And the reason they don't is that they have been trained with other methods of source citation other than the one that I use, which you might loosely call the Chicago Manual of Style.
That system that I use was elaborated and developed over centuries.
And there's a reason it was developed over centuries.
And there's a reason that.
It works the way it does because it's exact.
There's no, none of this business of putting a parenthetical reference in the middle of a main text with the author's name and the year of publication.
That's what passes for scholarship in the American Quackademy right now.
Wow.
Yeah.
Unbelievable.
I want to know the exact page, right?
Where I can go look up that quotation or look up that idea.
And I want to be able to do that so that I can tell if you are plagiarizing.
Or quoting, or what have you.
Wow.
So, Daniel, the scholarly standards have collapsed completely.
And once that happens, and of course, the other reason they're doing it, you'll notice, is that the current system of citation is tailor made for citing secondary sources.
Oh, right.
Yeah.
Articles in journals.
Yeah.
Not Plato, not Aristotle, not the mean patrologia Graeco Latina, or whatever it may be that you're using.
The AI part is like that too because when you're searching for something now, you can't go directly to the source.
They're like, no, here's an AI summation.
Yes, bingo.
And they're usually wrong.
Yeah, the Cliff Notes version ain't going to get you very far.
I have to give you a little aside here because it's about E. Howard Hunt.
Oh, dear.
Grind those transmission gears, Daniel.
Well, it's a Wikipedia thing.
Here's the thing.
So, Wikipedia has this glowing review of E. Howard Hunt's career.
And I was like, I went in there and I was like, what do they have to say about E. Howard Hunt's confession?
They don't mention his confession, okay, about being associated with the JFK assassination and LBJ and all that stuff.
And what they say is, oh, there were some notes and audio that his son made to try to make some money in a book, but they were all dismissed or whatever.
There's 15 hours of video of him confessing.
What are you doing?
So, I went to make a change to it.
Rarely would I do anything like that on Wikipedia.
And I found out that I've been banned in Wikipedia and have been since 2022 until 2026 for some god awful reason.
What?
And the senior admin, the name of the guy who did it, his name is Rodent.
Okay.
So, you've been banned by a rodent from Wikipedia for.
When I read that, I was like, oh my God.
God knows you can't trust anything in Wikipedia because they're going to leave that out.
Oxford Ghosts and Banned Accounts00:02:49
Listen, they were like.
There were rumors about him, you know, being associated with the Kennedy assassination, but nothing ever, you know.
He was loosely connected.
He had a fantastic career.
Listen, Wikipedia at one point was putting up an article that claimed that I had never really gone to the University of Oxford and I got my degree from a Korean seminary out in California.
Well, look, what happened was my friend, Dr. DeHart, was teaching at a Korean seminary.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yes.
And I was loosely connected.
Connected with it.
But, you know, they had dreamed up a completely different life for me.
What is it?
It's absurd.
Well, it was completely absurd.
I've got the piece of paper from that place on my wall for sale.
Thank God.
And they don't hand those out, you know.
Here, have one.
What is the nickname for Oxford again?
Oh, well, Dr. DeHart and I call it the Old Fiend.
The old fiend, yes, yes.
Because at least back then, when it was still Oxford, it had a.
There's nothing comparable in the American academic experience.
Absolutely nothing.
Not Harvard, not Princeton, not Yale.
Nothing.
Wow, wow.
It's teaching through the fine art of intimidation.
Oh, wow.
I don't know how else to describe it.
Did you have a chance?
I've never asked you this.
Did you have a chance to go anywhere near that Ashmolean collection when you were at the Ashmolean Museum?
I walked by it every day.
Wow.
Incredible.
Yeah.
It's quite, it's, and I did go in there.
It's an interesting, like everything else in Oxford, it's kind of creepy.
Yeah.
Because there, and I don't know how to describe the feeling.
You're in a city with a lot of ghosts.
Hmm.
And you just kind of feel their presence all the time.
Wow.
I mean, you can go to New College and see the bust of Percy Shelley, and you can go into the deer park in Maudlin College and walk around where Lewis walked around.
You can go drink your beer where the Inklings met.
You can go to Merton College and see where Tolkien taught.
There's just lots of ghosts, and they're always hovering in your mind.
Fascinating.
And that presence.
Emerald City Secrets and Financial Crises00:04:01
Puts everybody under pressure.
I can't describe it.
You know, the Sheldonian Theater, where they do the actual ceremonies of awarding degrees, the Sheldonian Theater was designed by Sir Christopher Wren.
You know, so even the buildings are just, you know, have this presence to them.
Wow.
That Rosicrucian.
Very much so, yes.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's very much like that.
It's very much like that.
And, you know, you have had a lot of people connected with that universe and Cambridge, for that matter, that, you know, were looking for Rosicrucians.
Right, yeah.
And not finding them, they just decided to start it up themselves.
It's interesting because Lewis Carroll was the overseer for the Ashmolean Library.
And I was thinking to myself, you know, Alice in Wonderland.
So deep.
And you draw in a powerful, powerful allegory of the Wizard of Oz in your latest book.
And I'm going to tap into that.
And then I'm going to try to ask you again, going back to presidents with this, how we can really, you know, instead of the kind of headline of how we understand the presidents when they're dealing with these secret systems, whether it's finance or the exotic technology part, their role and how they're basically a sponsor for who put them in there.
And so it's not always easy to be able to apprehend these powers and what the actual presidential powers are.
I'm going to read your definitions of some of these Wizard of Oz pieces just to get your reaction.
Okay.
So, and I think that that section is very interesting because it draws in the airship part, it draws in the secret finance part.
And of course, the book is The Real to Enrichment, which is all about the inner, deeper nature of the Civil War.
But you've got.
The Wicked Witch of the West of the East, pardon me, and decoding it, she is in the standard view, the silver standard powers of the Orient.
That's one.
The Wicked Witch of the West, the standard view, the gold standard powers of the Occident.
But in the airship allegory interpretation, her color green is that of the greenbacks enabling her technology.
She represents Lincoln.
And then I'm going to jump to.
The Emerald City here because we have more green.
I thought this was very interesting.
The debt free greenbacks are Emerald City, prosperous and advanced utopia, as the movie Wizard of Oz depicts the city in the distance as some modern and advanced vis a vis the simplicity and old feel of architecture of the rest of Oz.
What is going on there, and how did you correlate the Wizard of Oz with these deeper significance of the airships and the secret system of finance coming out of the Civil War?
Okay.
Well, the first thing to note is that the idea that The Wizard of Oz is a financial allegory is not original to me.
This was something that actually began to be bandied about as an idea in journals of literary criticism back in the late 1950s and early 1960s.
Oh, wow.
Because people noticed that Frank Baum, the author of The Wizard of Oz, was writing at the time that this country was going through all of those financial crises.
We had just passed the Resumption Act.
Of 1875.
President Grant was just leaving office.
Rutherford Hayes was coming in under extremely dubious circumstances.
Oh my God.
Yeah.
19th Century Fiat Currency Manipulation00:12:35
To put it mildly.
And Frank Baum is an editor in a little town newspaper in my home state of South Dakota.
He was an editor in Aberdeen writing this story.
And, um, I definitely think that he was trying to write an allegory because if you look even closer at the characters, the cowardly lion fits very well with William Jennings Bryan.
The scarecrow fits very well with figures of that era.
The tin man who has no heart and is just a robot fits very well with the industrialized, zombified workers of the Northeast and so on and so forth.
And again, you have the silver slippers in the book are changed to ruby slippers in the novel, but they're silver slippers in the book.
So you have an emphasis on the two metals that are at the heart of all of these currency debates that were going on in this country after the Civil War gold and silver.
Silver, of course, being demonetized.
And we know it was deliberately demonetized because.
The you know, they were intentionally deflating the currency, the money supply, and the reason they were doing it was this was the way that they could put a lien on the labor of the South because the South, of course, had ceased to exist, and all of the debt that the South had accumulated was now worthless.
So, you had a bunch of pissed off bankers in Europe, okay?
Right, yeah.
Uh, so deflation was the way to fasten a lien on the labor of the South, which.
Absolutely happened and to black and white uniformly.
We know that this policy was deliberate, Daniel, because the Comstock silver load in Nevada had been discovered during the war.
President Andrew Johnson insisted on being kept briefed on what was happening with the Comstock load.
Well, by the time that Johnson takes office, the load had been estimated to be about.
A quarter of a billion dollars worth of silver.
In other words, it was a gigantic amount of silver.
And now all of a sudden you're going to demonetize silver.
Okay.
So that tells you right there the policy is deliberate.
Okay.
So why demonetize it?
Well, because Europe is on a gold standard, a monometallic gold standard.
So there's your wicked witch of the West.
And in addition to that, the European powers and the post war union are engaged in or attempting to engage in a project of creating, and I get into this in the second book in much more detail, but they are engaged in a project of trying to create a system of currency that is based on gold that is pegged to the French franc.
In other words, it would be the 19th century equivalent of the snake system that obtained in Europe prior to the creation of the euro.
Under the snake system, the currencies of Denmark, Holland, Belgium, Luxembourg, and Austria were pegged to the Deutschmark.
And they were only allowed to fluctuate within narrow predetermined bands of price vis a vis the Deutschmark.
And if they started to go outside of those bands, the German Bundesbank would step in and restore the balance.
So, in other words, those currencies were basically an extension of the Deutschmark.
France wanted into that system and they created the euro.
So, in other words, if you look at the European Union, it's a currency union.
This is what they were trying in the 19th century with gold.
And by the way, they're trying to do it again with Trump's sovereign wealth fund.
Oh, right.
That's key.
Now, the thing about the Wizard of Oz allegory that is interesting to me that you suggested is green, of course, the color of the Lincoln Greenback.
The Lincoln Greenback was a debt free currency, it was a fiat currency that the union issued by law, making it legal tender for all debts, public and private, in the entire country.
Amazing.
That was issued entirely debt free.
So, in other words, there was no central bank to issue it and then loan it to the government.
It was not issued against bonds that were being sold.
It was just simply issued.
Okay?
So that means that the Union had three different types of circulating currency during the war between the states.
It had specie in the form of gold and silver coin, which quickly were taken out of circulation because the Union needed the specie for international trade.
Okay.
Yeah.
Well, specie virtually disappears.
The other kind of paper money currency was currency that was circulated against debt bonds that the government sold.
And then finally, Lincoln got the idea well, we don't need Jay Cook up there in Philadelphia selling our bonds for us because number one, he can't sell enough of them fast enough to raise money that I need for this dang war.
So he just decided we're going to issue currency directly out of the treasury.
That's what happened.
This is part of the problem in Walter get rid of Lincoln.
Yeah, he dared do it.
And the problem as a result of him doing it was the Union virtually collapsed its credit in European financial markets.
No one wanted to deal with Lincoln.
They would deal with the Confederacy because the Confederacy was issuing its own version of fiat currency, but with a codicil.
And that's why I put all those pictures of the Confederate currency in the book.
Because if you read on, and the currency that I'm picturing there was currency that the old Whitman Company in the 50s and 60s of the last century used to print.
They were facsimiles of actual Confederate currency printed by that company as kind of play money.
I used to have a bunch when I was a kid.
My father bought it for me after we went to a Civil War battlefield.
And it was printed with the actual colors of the original Confederate currency.
It was a very, very Close facsimile.
Oh, wow.
So if you look at this currency on the front of the Confederate dollar or whatever denomination, you'll always find a declaration of some sort that had a formula that within such and such a period of time,
after the conclusion of a treaty of peace between the United States of America and the Confederate States of America, the Confederate States of America will pay to the bearer on demand X amount of dollars.
Okay, that's what it said.
So, in other words, it is a fiat currency, but it's a fiat currency that is a promise to pay in the future in specie.
That's the key in specie for your funding of the war effort today.
Okay.
So, the Confederate currency is almost, but not quite, the same thing as a Lincoln green bag.
Almost, but not quite.
Almost, but not quite.
Because the Confederate Congress would never take the step.
That the Union Congress did of making a fiat currency legal tender.
So that made the Union the enemy of the world bankers.
Bingo.
Yeah.
And the Confederacy, on the other hand, had no problem getting foreign credit from Britain and France at, you can just imagine, usurious, onerous terms.
And Britain was hoping the Confederacy was going to win.
Sure, absolutely.
Well, why?
You've got this enormous power that's building up on this continent.
And if you keep it together, you know.
We're kind of sunk over here, right?
So, better to split the dang thing up, yeah.
Yeah, they've been trying to do it since 1776 and had no way to really accomplish it, yeah, right.
Yeah, it was tailor made for it.
The interesting thing that happens, getting back to our Wizard of Oz analogy, is that as the war is progressing, and I point this out in that Wizard of Oz chapter, President Lincoln.
Decides to back the first Black Project's secret weapons research thing by funding the airship mysteries and one particular airship developer by the name of Dr. Andrews, who had.
I mentioned what the eyewitnesses say about what he tested in 1864 was one of these airship contraptions, whatever it was.
Solomon Andrews.
Yeah, Solomon Andrews, that was flying around at over 200 miles an hour.
Now.
Folks, this is not a barrage balloon.
Yeah.
Okay.
40 years before the Wright brothers.
40 years before the Wright brothers.
And President Lincoln is funding this and asking Congress to fund it.
And he's running up against opposition from his own Secretary of War, the completely.
What can you say?
Stanton Friedman, not Friedman, Stanton, Edwin Stanton.
Edward Stanton.
Yeah.
This guy, this guy is the Alan Dulles of the 19th century.
I mean, yeah.
You get great focus on Stanton.
He's involved in everything and in the worst possible way.
It's Edward Stanton that is bucking Lincoln, and he does not want to fund this project.
And how is Lincoln funding it?
Well, he's funding it with greenbacks.
So, right there, you have a very significant thing that you have to latch on to.
You have secret weapons research.
Tied to a completely different and completely new system and type of finance under Abraham Lincoln.
So, this is the other thing I think, and I'm trying to hint in the book that is going on in the background.
The European powers are watching this and thinking, we cannot possibly allow this to stand.
Because, number one, you already have this monstrosity over here.
That is looming as not only a great power, but a world power.
We got to break that up.
And now it's developing technologies and funding it completely fiat currency.
So this cannot stand.
It just cannot stand.
So you would say that, I'm trying to figure this, the Reconstruction period, really, what Lincoln was doing.
And then getting taken out for a series of things, but this fiat currency creation and the secret projects development.
Yes.
And then when you move into the Reconstruction period and all the battles that take place there in terms of local control versus federal control, what happens to those projects and what happens to his dream of independent currency?
Reconstruction Era Secret Projects00:06:25
Well, I think the airship mystery scholar, Tim Busby, Wrote that wonderful book about the 19th century.
Yes, fantastic book.
It's absolutely indispensable.
I think he sticks so closely to the evidence, and the evidence is all those newspaper articles that appeared about the airships.
Oh, yeah.
If you look at what happens in the airship mystery, the whole thing starts to gravitate to where?
To Texas.
Texas.
Yes.
Right.
Yeah.
Which I think, again, is a huge clue as to what's going on.
Where's Jefferson Davis trying to get to when he's fleeing from Richmond?
Put it out of your minds, all that crap that you learned in American schools about Jefferson Davis wanting to continue the fight and he was wanting to go to guerrilla warfare.
They wouldn't even prosecute this guy.
No, they wouldn't go near that guy.
They had a deal in the background.
They did something with the guy.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean, Daniel, I have a copy of Jefferson Davis's two volume, you know, it's a big, thick volume of books called The Rise and Fall of the Confederate Government.
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
And I read this back in graduate school.
You know, I saw him in a local bookstore in Tulsa, Oklahoma, and I thought, oh, Jefferson Davis wrote memoirs about the Civil War.
That'll be interesting reading.
Needless to say, it was.
Because the first thing that you get is a legal brief on the constitutionality of secession.
And I mean, thorough.
Oh, wow.
The guy was not a slouch.
And then you occasionally get a little Latin or Greek verse because that's what he decided, you know, that was his hobby, it was writing Latin and Greek verse.
So, you know, the guy was quite an interesting dude.
But on top of this, you can read all 1,500 pages, Daniel 1,500 pages of every conceivable detail and exchange of correspondence with Lee, with Stonewall Jackson, with Joseph Johnston, with the Pope.
Incredible.
But not one mention anywhere in all those 1500 pages of memoirs of the financing of the Confederacy.
This makes no sense.
I mean, how you're going to get that?
Yeah, he's sitting on top of it.
Just leave it out.
And, you know, he's very upfront about what he was trying to do with that flight from Richmond.
He had been in secret negotiations with Lincoln directly, and both men knew that they were talking to each other.
You know, they were playing this little game where they pretended they weren't aware, but they both knew that they were.
So Davis is very upfront about.
What he's really trying to do is obtain better terms for the Confederacy than a peace at the pleasure of the Union.
That's what he's really trying to do.
Okay.
And again, he's very clear that he considered it his duty to do this.
You know, that was his duty.
That's what he was elected to do.
So you have this clash of two very powerful, principled personalities with Lincoln and Davis.
But he's trying to get to Texas to not only continue the war, but I suspect that given the Confederacy's very thorough and efficient espionage service inside the Union, that he knows what's up with this airship business.
And that this is another reason he's hightailing it into the Trans Mississippi Department because he wants to get his hands on this technology.
This could be a war.
Technology, yes, how are they exactly because Union has been secretly funding it?
Yeah, these guys on the Confederate side, and after they lose, right?
They they want a piece of the rock, absolutely.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
So, I think this, I think all of this is part of a hidden agenda during the war between the states and in the aftermath.
Um, it's really the final months of the war.
That shows you that there is a whole lot of unresolved issues, even to this day.
And, you know, the Confederacy really doesn't enter its final death throes until after the fall of Atlanta.
It's still fielding armies.
The Union isn't really getting anywhere, you know.
It was really a kind of a down to the wire thing.
So, you look at the end of the war, Daniel, and what you see happening is first of all, you see the Union beginning to establish all the infrastructure that we're going to associate with the military industrial complex in the 20th century.
This is being done during the war between the states by the Union.
The Confederacy, as you say, the Confederacy didn't have the infrastructure nor the financial muscle to.
To contemplate doing such a thing.
But after the war, it's very clear, I think, from your conclusion and from the way I laid it out in the books, that this is what they're trying to do.
They're trying to get in on a piece of the action.
Interesting.
Billion Dollar Counterfeit Bearer Bonds00:15:01
Joseph, you were talking about the manipulation of the currency back there.
And the one thing I forgot to ask you, because it's a great correlation between the Civil War aspect and the Kennedy aspect, was this story you.
Told and reported about the bearer bonds.
It's one of the strangest mysteries of all of this.
And it's one of these incredible things I don't want to get lost to history.
And it's so crucial.
But if you could just give us the bearer bond overview, the overview of what happened there with the Kennedy bearer bonds in Italy, the amount of money, and what it could represent, because I think that's a fascinating.
It's definitely a twist on the story.
And it's a window, maybe.
On that secret system of finance.
Oh, I absolutely think it is.
I absolutely think it is.
The story is, and I forget, it's been so many years now, I forget the exact year, but many years ago, I think at least 10, the Italian Garda di Finanza, the Italian Financial Security Police, an interesting group to look into, particularly if you're concerned about the Vatican's role in all of this.
Anyway, the Garda di Finanza caught.
And we're not, never has any explanation been made of why the Guarda de Finanza was looking for these two.
The story just appears, okay, magically out of thin air.
So the story is the Guarda de Finanza apprehended two Japanese men traveling from Italy into Switzerland on the train.
And they were apprehended carrying a briefcase, an attache case, with a false bottom.
And when the false bottom was opened up, it was shown to include big billion dollar denominated Kennedy bearer bonds.
I have a picture of this bond in my book, Covert Wars and Clash of Civilizations.
I'll show the picture, yes.
So there's on this so called billion dollar bearer bond, and imagine that, folks, a billion dollar bearer bond.
Incredible.
And we should say the bearer bonds were something that were set up originally by the U.S. Treasury.
Yes.
And you could go in, you know, up to a certain point and just say, here's the bearer bond.
Don't ask me where I got it.
Don't ask me what it's for.
Right.
And the Treasury would be obliged to give you the exact amount that's on the bearer bond.
Yes.
Yeah.
So it's a fantastic money laundering mechanism.
Okay.
Huge.
Yeah.
So now let's get back to the Italian JFK.
Okay.
So they apprehend these two Japanese men.
Carrying these bearer bonds.
On the front of the bond, there is a picture of President Kennedy.
Then there's to the right of the picture, there's a red stamp that is, in my opinion, designed to look deliberately like the red U.S. Treasury seal that you find on a United States note.
In other words, a note that is not issued by the Federal Reserve, but directly by the U.S. Treasury, debt free.
Okay?
So remember what Kennedy did?
He issued $4 billion worth of United States notes.
By executive order in June of 1963.
And I remember spending a couple of those $5 United States notes as a kid before the Federal Reserve stamp.
They had the red Treasury seal, not the green one.
And it said United States note on it, not Federal Reserve note.
Fascinating.
So I remember spending these as a kid.
Of course, the Federal Reserve removed every single one that came through its system and took them out of circulation and destroyed them.
Can't have that debt free money floating around.
Right.
But this red seal is the seal of a company called Money World, which is a trader in sovereign securities based in the Pacific, Indonesian, Malaysian archipelago, okay?
With a strong Vatican tie, incidentally.
And by the way, all the information about the Barabond stories was.
Carried and broken by, you guessed it, a Vatican newspaper.
Okay.
Oh, interesting.
Yeah.
That's the part of the story many people leave out.
They were telling their friends, hey.
Yeah, hey.
Which I just think is actually classic when you read about all the financial malfeasance of Pope John Paul II's misadministration.
But anyway, so you've got the Kennedy Barabond, billion dollar Barabond with this red seal from Money World.
Okay.
You turn the bond over and look at the reverse of the bearer bond.
And what's on the reverse?
Well, you have the moon, you have the space shuttle, and you have the lunar excursion module from the Apollo missions.
Unbelievable.
Yeah, decorating the back of this billion dollar bearer bond.
And the story is that there happened to be 134.
Billion dollars worth, in other words, 134 of these bearer bonds that were apprehended by the Guardia de Finanza in this attache case.
So it's an incredible amount of money.
I wouldn't, however, you look at it, counterfeit or not, 134 billion dollars in your suitcase.
Well, yeah, we'll get back to the counterfeit part here in a minute.
So a couple of weeks later, this story would not go away.
So a couple of weeks later, President Obama is at a press conference and a reporter asks him, you know, by the way, you know, what about all these bearer bonds, which just happen to be the same amount of money that's in the troubled asset relief fund?
TARP.
Yeah, TARP.
That your administration just set up.
Right.
Okay.
And for once, you can see President Obama, you know, he's a very articulate, you know, thinks on his feet guy.
You can see him kind of.
Fumble a little bit.
Fumble a little bit.
And he says, Well, as far as I've been told, the United States Treasury has never issued any bearer bond in denominations of a billion dollars.
And that's kind of where he leaves it off, which is true.
United States Treasury never did issue any bearer bond.
As far as we know, yeah.
As far as we know, in the amount of a billion dollars.
Okay.
And that's where.
The system of finance, on the other hand.
Yeah, well, this is the problem I have with it.
We are being told that this was counterfeit.
Now, let me add to the story.
There are two other bearer bonds incidents.
The other two incidents are an incident in Spain where one.
Pardon me, two trillion dollars worth of bearer bonds denominated in a billion dollars were apprehended, along with ten million dollars in cash found in a strong box purportedly from the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago.
Okay, yeah, so and by the way, the ten million dollars worth of cash is in denominations of 100,000, in other words, the Wilson.
$100,000 bill gold certificate.
Oh, yes, yes, yes.
Okay.
And it's banded with bands of Chase Manhattan Bank.
Okay.
So $2 trillion.
Yeah, this whole story is a strong box from the Federal Reserve, $2 trillion worth of billion dollar denominated bonds, including their coupons, and $10 million worth of cash in $100,000 gold certificates found in Spain.
And then, not six weeks later, another similar bearer bond incident again in Italy, this time for $6 trillion in the strongbox of the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas.
Wow.
With billion dollar denominated bearer bonds.
So, what happened?
Fascinating.
Yeah.
What happened at this point?
Some scholar out there, and I have the book, some scholar had to write a book about, well, These things, all of the talk about these things being some sort of significant story is nonsense because this is all counterfeit.
These are all counterfeit.
Okay.
Here's my problem, Daniel.
Number one, who in the name of sense is going to counterfeit a billion dollar bearer bond and expect to get any real money for it, even at sharp discount?
In other words, you don't counterfeit a $7 bill.
You don't counterfeit things that don't exist and then go to all the trouble of building a strong box purportedly from the Federal Reserve branch banks of Dallas and Chicago and pile a bunch of money counterfeit into the strong boxes and say, oh, here's your money.
We want X amount of real money to spend in return for giving you this fake money.
Who does that?
Wow.
Okay, so my problem with this is somebody's going to a heck of a lot of work to come up with a counterfeit scheme that is going to lead them absolutely nowhere.
Right.
It's an excellent logic.
It's persuasive logic.
You would only counterfeit something that actually existed and that you could actually get a return on.
You know, yes.
Most counterfeiters are going to, if they're going to counterfeit a bond, it's going to be, okay, maybe at best $100,000, maybe a million, but a billion?
Wow.
Here's the question.
Why is Kennedy pictured on the front of the bond, and why is the moon landing on the back?
Because I think, yes, what you're looking at is you're looking at a hidden system of finance for the purpose of something to do with space, be it mining the moon, developing secret technologies to mine the moon, go out into space.
I think that's what you're looking at.
And the reason, and here's the clincher.
And again, this was not my research.
This was the research of Peggy and Sterling Seagrave.
A wonderful book, if you can still get it, called Gold Warriors.
Oh, yes.
We know that governments engage in the counterfeiting of their own sovereign securities.
Why?
Because Japan did it big, big time.
Under Prime Minister Tanaka.
And I remember as a kid watching, you know, what's all this financial scandal that's bringing down the Tanaka government?
You know, what's this about?
Well, it turned out that the Japanese Treasury had a lot of sovereign securities coming due.
And it did not have the money in the Treasury to pay the people that were holding these bearer bonds.
Okay.
So what this is classic what Prime Minister Tanaka did was.
He swapped paper.
He issued another set of bearer bonds with lucrative terms and said, Well, I'll swap the paper.
I'll redeem your bonds with more bonds, with these bonds that give you a better deal.
Okay, that's what he did.
The problem was the bonds that he gave these people were unlike any previous Japanese sovereign security in either appearance or care.
Because the bonds were also printed with little misprints, with deliberate misspellings, you know, kanji that made no sense, and so on and so forth.
So that when those bonds came due, the government could say, well, we can't redeem that.
It's counterfeit.
So, in other words, you got the real thing side by side with this whole counterfeit thing, but it pumps up an entire system until it's revealed.
It yeah, it creates enormous amounts.
It gives you two things it gives you the ability to pump enormous liquidity into a system, and number two, it keeps the holder of the bond beholden to you because if they're ever going to be able to redeem that bond, they have to go along with what you tell them to do.
Oh, wow!
Otherwise, sorry, it's counterfeit, you lost your money.
Wow, yeah, let's not forget that that figure of 134 billion dollars first appears.
In connection with the so called nationalist Chinese gold that Chiang Kai shek gave to this country for safekeeping at the outbreak of World War II, that we gave Henry Morgenthau, Roosevelt's Secretary of the Treasury, gave bonds to the Chinese.
Those bonds were also printed with little misprints, and they were bonds issued directly by the Federal Reserve, not the U.S. government and not the U.S. Treasury.
And they're still floating around.
They're still floating around.
And in fact, if you dig up the story, you can find some of these bondholders actually approached President Trump in his first administration and said, We need to get these bonds redeemed.
And the Trump administration said, We'll look into it.
Yes.
They're probably like, oh my God.
Well, that's a very clever mechanism.
Oh, yeah.
Back with FDR.
And it's interesting.
The symbolism on the Kennedy thing always hit me.
Moon Collateralization and Gold Mines00:11:07
Yeah.
The moon.
Yeah.
What I suspect they did, Daniel, and I've been hammering and hammering this.
I'm glad you raised this because I get to hammer it again.
We're dealing with what?
$14 to $17 quadrillion worth of bad derivatives sloshing around on the books of the world's financial system.
That's what we're dealing with.
Toxic assets.
Toxic assets that are several times, if not orders of magnitude, larger than the entire gross domestic product of our entire planet.
Okay, you don't just zero out the books on something.
Wow, yeah, okay.
So, what do you do?
What do you have to do?
I suspect that those bearer bonds, particularly those Kennedy bearer bonds, represent the collateralization of the resources of outer space, and in this instance, particularly of the moon.
Yes, why?
Because what you're doing is the same thing that the Confederacy was doing when it.
Was issuing its currency, or that the Venetian bankers were doing when they floated a loan to Marco Polo or whoever to go out there to the Orient and buy, hey, buy us some silks and we'll trade some gold for some silver and some gems and some slaves.
And we banks get a share of whatever profits you bring back.
That's how all of that was financed.
So, in other words, they were collateralizing their loan on the basis of the return from an expedition.
And that's what I suspect those bearer bonds ultimately represent.
We're going to fund the technology for you to go out there and get this stuff and bring it back to us, give us our cut, and we can zero out the books.
Interesting.
And this is the actual tender.
This is the, what do they call it when you transfer?
I'm trying to think of the term.
It is an instrument.
Yes, a loyal title.
It's a holder's instrument.
Yes.
It's a title.
It's a loyal title, not patent title.
And that's key because.
Bearer instrument, right?
It's a bearer instrument.
That's key because what they are doing is they're not only collateralizing a future return on an expedition.
Okay?
That's what they're doing.
So those Kennedy bearer bonds represent the modern equivalent of Confederate currency.
That's what they are.
It's a promise to pay.
That's what they are.
Okay?
It's interesting that the Barabond stories began at roughly the same time frame and in the same sequence after the financial meltdown of 2008.
Yes.
When the bankers were telling us, well, we can't have any oversight.
We don't want you people.
We want you people to give us all this money, but you can't have any say or oversight in what we do with it.
Okay.
Remember that?
Or there'll be martial law if you don't do it.
Or there will be martial law if you don't.
Yeah.
So, um, During that same time period, we started to learn about all the derivatives sloshing around in the system, and estimates ranged from 14 to 17 quadrillion dollars.
What also began to happen at that same time?
Remember the news stories that suddenly started to appear about this or that asteroid out in the asteroid belt?
Yes.
That was such a gold mine of all sorts of precious minerals and resources.
And gosh, oh, golly gee, some of them just happened to be valued at about $14 quadrillion.
Incredible.
So, how do you zero out all the bad toxic assets?
You have to do one of two things.
You have to either go out and get those assets and hope they don't belong to somebody else.
Of a gray skin variety.
Yeah, exactly.
Or you have to at least claim that you've done so.
Oh.
Or do you have to reveal your operations that you like to keep secret?
Well, you can't do that because then you couldn't make the claim.
You see?
It's one of the two things.
You either really have to do it, and therefore you have to develop the technology to do it, or at least claim to do so.
Yes.
Keep the shell game going.
But with Kennedy, that system of finance wouldn't exist without them having removed Kennedy.
So his presence on the bill is a symbol of he's the one that we eliminated in order to do this.
Yeah.
Ding, ding, ding.
On the nose.
Wow.
He's there as.
A little homage.
It's like a reverse George Washington.
Yes, exactly.
So interesting.
Yeah.
The symbolism on those bonds is just off the charts.
And we haven't even discussed all of them because if you look at the serial number on the bonds, the serial number, it is clearly trying to get you to think of, well, Apollo, what was that all about, really?
You know?
And I'm sorry.
No, it wasn't about Stanley Kubrick faking the whole thing in a studio in London or Nevada or wherever.
No.
But it was about a problem.
Yes.
It's a problem.
What they found on the moon is a problem.
Oh, yeah.
If you've been paying attention to Richard Hoagland over the years, yeah, what they found there was a bit of a problem.
A little C3PO head.
Well, look, you know, to me, the.
The clincher was the analysis of some of those black and white Apollo pictures that Hoagland's done over the years, including the one with that thing hanging up in the air above the moon.
Yes.
That looks like a portion of the old World Trade Center towers just hanging there above the surface of the moon.
And it's clearly not an artifact of the photo or the process.
No, that's incredible.
Yeah.
Very, very strange.
What's it up there?
You know?
Yeah.
Coburn likes to make the joke that you know we could we could see the pigeons sitting on that thing as we as we flew by, yeah.
It's very he was early on the ruins on the moon and ruins, oh, yeah, absolutely, yeah, absolutely.
And I think you're correct, it has not gone forward since he mentioned it.
It's interesting too because the people who were uh tasked with getting rid of those anomalies and the photos that they would put out later did come forward.
In different ways, supporting that entire thing.
So, there should be much greater realization that they've been faking what we have in outer space.
And that doesn't mean that, you know, the whole thing they're pushing for flat Earth and all that, you know, the junk conspiracy stuff.
No, that's put out on purpose, I'm sure.
Yeah.
But I would say this the Kennedy bonds and the moon aspect represent two different things.
One, here's the guy, you know, his vision of the moon program, we got the opposite version of that with a secret space economy and everything else.
But he's there because he couldn't do it without.
Taking him out.
And then you have the entire Apollo mission and the entire space representation on the back of that bill.
Yes.
Joseph, when they consider space from this perspective, you're saying they're looking at it economically as a base of which to measure out what they can do financially.
Yeah.
I think that's part of it.
And I think they're looking at it as the next big imperial project.
And therefore, the next big financial project.
Yes.
But I also absolutely believe that one of the hidden motivations that is driving them is they, I suspect, have suspected for a long time that we are living in a solar system on the ruins of a civilization that was once.
Not confined to this planet, but others.
And they're looking for not only evidence of that, they're looking for the lost technologies.
Oh.
Yeah.
They're looking, you know, this is the reason they're scratching around in the desert of Iraq.
This ultimately, I think, is the reason they want to go into Iran.
You know, talk about another ancient civilization with all sorts of weird lore.
Yeah.
Persia would be the heart of this.
Persia would be the heart, not just because of that, but because of its connections to the East and to the Vedic and Chinese civilizations and its connections to the West with Sumer and Egypt and so on.
So, I mean, talk about a country that is sitting on top of that kind of gold mine, potential gold mine.
These are the archaeological wars that you've really outlined so well.
The Mars aspect, Joseph, in your opinion, Have we already reached Mars?
I think there's a possibility that there have been some sort of, and I say possibility, I would put it probably 2080, that there's some sort of human outpost not only on the moon but on Mars, but very well hidden, a possibility.
The reason I entertain it that strongly even with regard to Mars, Is it number one?
It is clearly evident to anybody that has an open mind that's willing to look at the pictures coming from the surface of that planet that there was something up there.
Yes, that we're not just looking at a bunch of rocks, we're looking at debris fields.
I mean, go again, go on Hoagland's website and look at some of the pictures that he's assembled over many, many years of things on Mars.
ITV Documentary and Mars Speculation00:02:58
Some of them look like engine blocks.
From internal combustion.
Absolutely, yeah.
Yeah, they do.
There's no way I can rationalize this as all geological process.
But the other reason I think that it is a possibility, and I'm going to just jump right into the canyon of speculation, is that old documentary that ran on ITV during the 70s in Great Britain called Alternative Three.
Yes.
That, if you know the story of Alternative Three, The television documentary and then the subsequent book, and I have both, is a very interesting development to watch happen because the television documentary aired and then, and it was aired deliberately as an April Fool's joke.
You know, the producers at ITV were having a typical British sophisticated let's make fun.
And the exact opposite happened because at the end of airing the The documentary, ITV was flooded with tens of thousands of letters, not only from all over Britain, but all over the world where the documentary had been shown, saying, Yeah, they were encountering similar things and had, you know, experienced these people, brainy people, just get up and leave and disappear and never be heard from again.
And then the book came out by one of the producers, and the book is even stranger than.
If you can imagine it, than the television documentary.
And basically, it is.
And basically, the book is arguing that they weren't expecting the reality that people actually believed that this was going on.
And this producer writes this book, and he himself ends up having to believe at least some of it because his telephone wires were being tapped, his mail was being opened and resealed, and so on and so forth.
Why are you going to do that in response to a joke?
This is a case of someone tripping into a very sensitive area.
Yeah, this is a case of someone tripping into a very sensitive area.
And, you know, it was a crazy explanation for why Britain suffered the brain drain.
And then all of a sudden they're getting all these letters of people saying, yeah, my friend was XYZ expert in PQR and all of a sudden disappeared and we haven't heard from him.
Wow.
Wow.
And this is exactly the kind of people you would get to.
Von Braun and Sensitive Areas00:04:13
To do something like try and terraform some little part of Mars into livable conditions.
So, yeah, I don't rule it out.
And I know that sounds strange, but if you haven't seen Alternative Free, folks, go watch the documentary.
Absolutely.
Now, this is absolutely fascinating.
And I'll wrap it up with these questions that get us around NASA again.
Okay.
The figure of astronaut Gordon Cooper.
Okay.
I spent a lot of time researching Cooper's autobiographies and everything.
Recently, what I've been doing is watching some of his last taped interviews, which are very, very interesting.
But one of the things that he gets across is oh, first of all, the ships that were following us when we were training in Germany in 1951 were definitely under intelligent control.
They would mimic exactly what we were doing, then do it better, then disappear at light speed.
So he said, I watched it up close.
There's no question in my mind that that's what they were doing.
And in his opinion, they were extraterrestrial.
And he also goes into the history of the films that he had that were taken away and that he saw the craft and all the rest.
Now, what's interesting though is whenever he gets around that Mars mission, he gets a strange twinkle in his eye.
In the book, he talks about being tapped on the shoulder by Wernher von Braun, of course, famously the father of our rocket program brought over in the paperclip Nazi mess.
And he said that he tapped him on the shoulder and said, Get fit, you're leading the Mars mission.
Oh, wow.
And he started to get himself together on all this.
A little later on, an emissary of von Braun's says, von Braun wants you to know don't talk about it, don't say it got mentioned, don't do anything.
And just forget about it, leave it.
It's scrubbed.
Yeah.
And he was bummed out so much that he eventually left NASA and became an archaeologist for a while.
I thought that was interesting.
So he leaves, and then in 1971.
He hears from his contacts at NASA, hey, the Mars mission is on.
They've got it slated for 1981.
They're going to have a big celebration.
They're going to do the whole thing.
And, you know, it's all mapped out.
And he was hearing how it was developing.
And then he expected, well, 1981, this is what they're going to do.
But he wasn't seeing any signs of anything anywhere as he got into the 70s.
And he got very, very suspicious.
And then he attributed it to these senators that were, you know, going after these programs in the interview.
However, he said.
The Martian mission was slated.
They already knew what they were going to do, and they already had the tech to do it for 1981.
And if he was tapped on the shoulder in 66, then they certainly had the tech for Von Braun to be thinking of the mission.
The other thing that I think is interesting is Lloyd Berkner, who I've done the documentary on with Kennedy meeting him at the trademark, and the fantastic Ripple episode that you and I will do a part two because there's so many.
Questions since we did that last year.
But Berkner wrote and put together Kennedy's vision of the moon mission.
But in Berkner's notes, it's all we choose to go to the moon and Mars.
Kennedy left out the Mars part because he's like, it's too ambitious for this decade.
But the missions were tied together, moon and Mars.
So the question is if Cooper knew about the mission in 66, what happened to those missions?
And is that the foundation really?
Of the secret space program.
Is that unraveling the whole mystery right there?
That's a great question.
And you're asking me to speculate again.
Here's the problem with all current publicized versions of how a Mars mission will work.
Exotic Propulsion and Nazi Deals00:04:14
None of them will work.
That's the problem.
You cannot go to Mars.
Land and then get off of that planet, which supposedly has a bigger gravity than the moon.
Okay, there's that little problem there, but you can't do that with the existing rocket technology nor the technology that they are trying to bring online, you know, Elon Musk and so on and so forth.
Chemical rockets, you can't do it with chemical rockets for simply the reason.
Number one, that it's too difficult to do.
And number two, you are exposing yourself under the speed of chemical rockets to a lot more radiation in space during that long of a period than the human body, I think, can sufficiently stand.
You have to have, in other words, what I'm saying is you have to have an alternative technology.
You have to plan a Mars mission with an exotic technology.
I don't know what that is plasma rockets, ion propulsion.
Fusion propulsion, bell like anti gravity tech, who knows?
I don't know.
But at the very least, you have to have something that is not only going to give you a way to get there, but is going to protect you from all the radiation you're going to encounter.
Not the least of which is coming from your method of propulsion.
Okay?
So this is the problem.
But by the same token, I would say that of the moon.
It's always been my thesis since the SS Brotherhood of the Bell that we didn't get there simply on the use of chemical rockets alone.
For all the above reasons, plus the signatures of the lunar excursion modules lifting off from the moon do not show the signature of a chemical rocket.
Now, if Stanley Kubrick is hoaxing this thing on a studio in Nevada or London, And making a hoax that's going to say, oh, well, we got there with this nifty little rocket on this little bicycle called the Lunar Excursion Module.
He's going to do a little bit better of a job than having it simply pop up.
Yeah, it's incredible footage.
Yeah, and it's either a very lousy hoax, thank you, Stanley, or it's a very accurate hoax, or it's the genuine article.
And in the latter two cases, what it's telling you is, this ain't a rocket.
Okay, it's that simple.
Yeah.
So, this is my problem.
The moon landings themselves have an exotic technology component to them that, in my opinion, was provided to us by the Nazis who made that little deal with us to enable us to get there and back.
Let's remember the head of the Apollo missions at Cape Canaveral at the time was none other than Dr. Kurt Davis, a Nazi.
And by the way, one of the key figures on the Nazi Bell project.
And by the way, a plasma scientist, not a rocket scientist.
And oh, by the way, subsequently put in charge of NASA's UFO desk.
That's the weirdest part of the whole thing.
Yeah.
Which is, I mean, it's also weird that they would put a guy, didn't you say the type of thing that he was dealing with wasn't actually, wouldn't really relate to a propulsion rocket?
No.
He was a plasma physicist, and his area of expertise was high voltage measurement.
Wow.
That was his scientific area of expertise.
Now, what's a man like that doing in charge of scheduling and overseeing the actual Apollo mission launches?
Huntsville Connection and Paperclip Nazis00:02:35
Why?
Incredible.
Well, if you are relying upon an exotic technology that you're not telling anybody about, especially given the fact that it came from that place at that time, he's a logical choice to put in charge of something like that.
So why hasn't anything been done?
My suspicion is that for whatever reason, the deal that we entered into, and again, this is all speculation, I grant you, but it's the speculation I've laid out in many books, that the deal that we made with this post war group of paperclip Nazis to get to the moon and then off of it somehow ended or was allowed to expire, whatever, after the Apollo programs.
So that connection is no longer there.
That's why they got rid of the tapes and everything?
That could be.
I don't know.
It could be now why we're trying to redevelop connections to companies like Lockheed Martin that would have access to and, pardon me, have developed that technology since then.
I certainly don't think that just because we broke some sort of deal or arrangement with these post war Nazis, that all of a sudden we gave up development of it.
Right.
No, no.
Not if Bobby Inman's on duty.
Trump himself announced that he's moving Space Command from Colorado to Huntsville.
Is that a kind of modern tie over?
I think so.
Yeah.
I think so.
Absolutely.
Because, I mean, where does Fun Brown end up after he retires from Huntsville?
Yeah.
Fairchild.
And that's where he supposedly tells Dr. Carol Rosen, you know, what she outlines in her affidavit.
So there's something going on in Huntsville.
Wow.
Amazing, Joseph.
Mind blowing information.
Now stay right there and we'll do part two for subscribers going even deeper on the space takeover.
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Of course, you can find Joseph's latest book at gizadeastar.com.
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