Dark Journalist and John Warner IV expose alleged government deception, claiming the UFO disclosure narrative is a controlled agenda orchestrated by figures like Chris Mellon and David Grusch to discredit true extraterrestrial contact. They theorize SpaceX missions are AI-faked distractions while shadowy groups manipulate public perception through transhumanist projects and occult rituals at Area 51. Warner predicts mainstream media will eventually fail, forcing reliance on alternative sources as a controlled narrative collapses under the weight of suppressed truths regarding ancient civilizations, psychic military programs, and impending societal shifts driven by hidden black technology. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, WAV2VEC2_ASR_BASE_960H, sat-12l-sm, script v26.04.01, and large-v3-turbo
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Family Secrets and Funding00:08:14
Hello, everyone.
This is Dark Journalist.
Tonight, I have a special interview for you with author and researcher John W. Warner IV.
John is the son of the late Virginia Senator John Warner, who played an inside role with the UFO file, and Catherine Mellon, heiress to the Mellon banking fortune.
Previously, John exposed deep state connections in his family's background and his cousin, government official Chris Mellon, as participating in a false UFO disclosure narrative that hides the real details.
Tonight, John will explore the intel connections to UFO whistleblower David Grush and the forces behind the alien invasion charade.
Please join us.
Now.
John, it's great to have you back.
Thank you for having me.
Seems like, in some ways, you've been in the news recently, or your family has, in a sense.
Coming off the spin of this interview with Joe Rogan of David Grush, the former intelligence guy who now calls himself a UFO whistleblower.
That's up for debate for sure.
And we'll get into who's putting him out there.
It's interesting because it was a very unusual interview for a lot of reasons.
And, but one of the things that comes across, we're talking about that public disconnect, and Rogan let this guy kind of go off, didn't really challenge him on anything.
He was coming up with everything that he's been promoted into position to do in terms of Grush having people like Lou Elizondo and your cousin, Chris Mellon, you know, sort of grooming this guy for a couple of years before he comes out and says all this.
And then he comes before these congressional committees and he's like, well, I really can't say anything until you get me in a skiff.
And they're like, oh, you don't have the security to get in The SCIF.
And so it's like that little maze again.
But the Rogan show missed all that.
One of the key things in there, though, and I think this is absolutely a weird moment in the interview, is when he starts talking about your grandfather, Paul Mellon.
And he takes points that are directly lifted from previous interviews that we've done about it.
Yeah.
What were you thinking when you heard that?
Strongly suggests that Chris Mellon and his team and everything, they watch your show.
Yeah.
And, you know, Paul Mellon is a pretty obscure guy in the scheme of the issue.
It's just you and me talking about it.
Big hat.
Not a DuPont, not a Rockefeller, which is the go to robber baron choice for any of this stuff.
Nelson Rockefeller, the DuPonts, the Pierre DuPont, you know, he didn't pick any of those.
He picked a little lowly Paul Mellon.
And so I see that as, you know, a low caliber shot across my bow.
And there's no question.
I think it's a nod to you.
And it's also something where the people on Twitter, what do you think this means?
And a bunch of people wrote, well, now, of course, it means all these melons are in cahoots with one another.
And so I think that's what they're trying to say is, you know, oh, don't trust John Warner and his big mouth.
He's part of the op.
And who can blame people for thinking that?
Well, they're worried about, let's face it.
Why should they?
Right.
Well, someone coming from your family and coming out and talking about the UFO issue and exposing the whole UFO threat aspect that they've been pushing and that your cousin pushed as part of the government, for you to come out and say that, like they have taken a while to figure out how to strategize to deal with this guy, you.
Well, they didn't foresee me.
Maybe they did with Project Looking Glass.
Hell, I don't know.
You know, could be, yeah, definitely.
The kids have this technology that's way beyond their wisdom, and it's like, okay, maybe they knew I was going to come out, maybe they didn't, but it sort of seems like Chris Mellon was going to come out, and people were going to say, Well, who the hell's Chris Mellon?
Oh, he's from that banking family, you know.
They probably most likely didn't know that I was going to come up here, and oh, guess what?
I've been working on for all my life, you know, this and Paul Mellon and Patton, and you know, hey, my dad was part of uh MJ12, right?
So now they got to normalize it.
And probably by him just sort of flippantly.
Oh, you know, a bunch of rich guys, they funded the CIA and the NSA.
He forgot to mention that.
They were funding NSA too, amongst other shadowy groups, away from Congress funding at first.
You got to kind of twist Congress in so many ways, and then you get them on board.
It's interesting he didn't mention Dulles or any of SC or any of that.
He went right for Paul Mellon.
Yeah.
Very interesting.
And also, Paul Mellon is not, you've pointed this out, is not Chris Mellon's grandfather.
He's your grandfather.
Chris Mellon's grandfather is William Larimer Mellon.
He's a businessman and a philanthropist.
He was not in the military, as far as I know.
And he definitely wasn't in intelligence, as far as I know.
So, yeah, gauntlet thrown.
Fine.
I'm fine with it.
Go ahead.
You know, I don't know what I'd say to Grouche.
I'm not against Grouche.
You know, I'm against the people he's with to some degree.
I think they're clowns and they're dangerous clowns.
Um, I'm angry.
There's a lot of manipulation around, yeah.
They're lying about certain stuff.
I don't like that.
Um, it's not, I have nothing personal against Grouch or anything.
Um, but boy, he sure made it personal now, yeah.
Yeah, and I'd say to him, you know, he'd never tell me the truth as to why he did that.
Probably Chris told him to do it.
Um, they want to control all this narrative, and that means you know, trying to stick a needle in our tires and deflate you and me for sure, yeah.
Which there is, you know, there's going to be some of that.
You know, I don't have a big following on Twitter.
People are understandably suspicious of me.
And, you know, they say every day I get people, you're full of shit.
You're part of it.
And it's obvious, blah, blah, blah, you know.
So, you know, that's what they're doing.
Well, there's always going to be some element.
That's the nature of the environment.
But the thing is, the truth is that you bravely came out and talked about these things within your family.
And you came out a couple of years ago now.
We did our interview in 2021.
Our first one, where you really went on the record with most of this.
And what I see, and I find it very interesting, is the one thing you pointed out about Grush is that he's from Pittsburgh and that there is, in fact, a kind of almost like a Mellon group that meets and goes over things.
And you really see signs now that he's been groomed in that whole process.
We know he was groomed by Chris Mellon in any case and by Lou Elizondo and Corbell and that whole thing.
It may have pricked their ears.
That you and I were talking about the possibility that, you know, Grouch being from Pittsburgh, yeah, that you know, Chris Mellon took him under his wing and groomed him.
And oh, by the way, I wonder if there belonged to the Shick Shinny Knights, which is a secret society that spun off of the Knights of Malta.
That's the one.
Now, this is what my occult friends, John and John Luke, we've been talking about for more than two years now.
And it's like all these people you're watching, from Gary Nolan to Travis Taylor to everybody like that.
They might be, or they were twisted, arm twisted to join some sort of secret society in all this.
Ancient Rituals and Twins00:06:11
Because someone said, posted something on Twitter that said, My gosh, Jack Parsons Crowley, all these people are Freemasons and they end up in the cult.
Why?
And of course, I gave my answer about Babylon workings and jinn and archons and all that stuff.
It gets weird.
It gets really weird, but they were messing around with it.
And I believed the story that Parsons and Crowley.
Did a Babylon workings at Area 51 in 47, 48, it would make sense.
Maybe they had to deal with the astral world or something interdimensionally in order to secure a lease for the land and what's under the land.
Right.
Since a lot of this stuff is done psychically and rituals, from my knowledge, go back to ancient Sumeria, and they were very important.
We still do a lot of rituals today.
The military is full of rituals.
You know, as Farrell says, the Germans marched down with torches and the bell tree, the Schellenbaum, you know, and they have eagles just like fascist Rome.
Mm hmm.
Rituals define our world.
Marriage is a ritual.
Funerals are a ritual.
Going to church is a ritual.
Whatever corporate rules and these are like rituals.
And so it's all in our society.
Everyone's like, oh, crazy occult crap.
And it's like, no, unfortunately, it's interwoven in all this.
There's no denying it.
I'm shocked that CBS did Strange Angel.
About Jack Parsons.
Of course, when it started getting voted, they canceled it.
They did, right?
Everyone's like, what happened?
Go and figure that out and read some book or go to the internet.
And so it's very interesting all these things that have been happening in the last 10 years.
More even, but the last 10 years seems like everything's boiling to the surface.
Of course.
Good, bad, and everything in between.
Well, you pointed out.
And this is something that goes back beyond the remote viewing program.
But we know there's this psychic thread throughout the whole UFO aspect and the research aspect.
I remember Russell Targ telling me that Wernher von Braun, the head of NASA, was telling him, I want you to develop an ESP machine for me so I can test the astronauts' ESP.
Yeah, they tested it.
We're already getting into that side of it.
You talked about a program with FDR training psychics back in World War II.
Yeah, I can't prove it, but I've read it from several very interesting sources, and that's all it's worth, you know.
But it said that FDR knew the Russians had a psychic army, that's what they called it, probably 1,000 people, maybe more, 10,000, given the Russians' penchant for large projects.
And FDR contracted G2 and whatever the forerunner of the OSS was, and probably naval intelligence.
And said, Holy shit, you know, we got to cobble together our own psychic teams to combat the Germans and Japanese, probably.
And the word is, they rented a warehouse out in Arlington, not too far from where they trained the OSS people out in Virginia towards Mount Vernon.
There was a camp there.
And so the word is, they were based on twins because twins have a natural psychic connection.
That's basically been proven.
And the word is they have larger pineal glands than most.
Now, that comes from Mengele.
Joseph Mengele was doing experiments in the death camps on twins.
Right.
For a host of reasons.
But one of the main reasons that I believe it is he was looking at them for the psychic evaluation and digging into those pineal glands and showing the SS High Command here's what we need to do get our own sets of twins and put them in the tool of society and whatever, real society.
Alongside Maria Orsic and the whole gang, Sigrun and the others, and I'm sure Halcoffer and Baron von Schbettendorf are in there too.
And everyone had a psychic division.
You know, this whole thing, the Italians did, everyone did.
This is nothing new.
If you go back into history, the oracles of ancient Rome, ancient Greece, the Persians using their own oracles, and a lot of females, probably some twins, to contact higher sources for valuable military intelligence.
It's nothing new.
Right.
I think every single war ever fought on the face of the earth has had a huge psychic component.
Yeah.
Dealing, you know, a lot of people think ETs in the mix of every warrant's proxy wars.
I kind of lean towards that because they can't fight themselves, but they can do it with us as proxies, like pawns and on a chessboard.
It's a three dimensional chessboard.
Would you say, I mean, you could almost visualize it as the modern temple is.
This warehouses of these psychics, whenever we get into these war situations, it goes out into offices and labs.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it's a major component there.
And in the meantime, traditionally, things of psychic nature get ridiculed and they keep people out of it.
And we've got CIA people saying, hello, remote viewing, MK Ultra.
It's like, ah, we're still led to everyone is psychic, every single person on the face of the earth.
It's just a degree.
It's genetic.
It's other things, you know, the twin thing.
Yeah.
And it shouldn't be a big deal by now.
80s Culture and Psychic Progress00:03:36
My God, in the 70s was the biggest thing.
People forget.
Right.
How big this whole psychic thing, UFO subject, everything was really big in the 70s.
We were really making a lot of scientific progress.
And now we've got 600 million shit shows competing for eyeballs and attention spans.
Right.
And it's like, yes, there's more information, but there's more mud in the river.
You know, it's just hard.
I mean, I remember watching all those shows and reading books in the 70s when I was a teenager.
It's amazing.
It's amazing how they kind of got that out of culture.
They did in the 80s.
You know, in this 1970s, race relations were really improving.
Yes.
Around the country, they really were, especially here in D.C.
Yeah.
And then by the 80s, what do we have, folks?
Yuppies, BMWs, money, the economy turned around, quick step, right?
Cocaine, uh, cheap, government cheese, gangland warfare, you know, all this stuff.
Uh, you know, really good music, which I liked, you know, but MTV, yeah, people forget the significance of MT.
I'd never seen it before in 81.
I went to college and down Charlottesville at UVA.
They had cable.
DC did not have cable at the time.
That was a big deal.
It took them years to do it.
I was like, what's MTV?
I'd never heard of it.
And the whole fraternity house, the party stopped and everyone was watching MTV until me or someone else unplugged it from the wall.
I took the TV through the window once.
That went over like a Led Zeppelin on fire.
But I knew then, I mean, we were having this great get together with a sorority or friends or people.
Our house was very social and people coming and going.
Everything stopped when they turned MTV on.
Interesting.
And that reminds me of today with Netflix and Elon Musk's companies and corporations.
And oh, what's happening with the, you know, there's a million things.
They've really upped the distraction angle.
Yes, technology brings more computer games.
I mean, they were around in the 80s, but they were childish.
Sure.
Now, you can join a secret space program with VR goggles on, take some drugs, and be immersed.
Right.
Yeah, you're damn right.
I want to do 100 and back.
Hell, that's for 60s, 1,000 years in space.
Fight for the Marines.
You're like, wow, can I play?
You know, my grandson and everything, it does this.
You know, it's, I'm like, what a powerful tool to indoctrinate people to ideas and concepts.
No question.
When you think about where we are, and it's a good thing you mentioned the 80s, actually, because Reagan had SDI and Star Wars, and, you know, behind the scenes, we know he was talking to Gorbachev about teaming up against the aliens and all this kind of thing.
When you see where we are now in culture, do you think that?
Would you say that we've had a large secret kind of development in space?
So we have an infrastructure out there, but this public that's walking around doesn't have any actual awareness of it.
So there's a weird kind of schizophrenia in the culture where you have a small group operating in space, ostensibly controlling the globe.
Hidden Space Infrastructure00:02:36
Yeah, I think so.
It looks that way, points that way, all the indicators, but that takes lots of work.
Yeah.
A lot of deep thinking.
And less distractions.
My wife kicks me out of the house, slams my laptop down, says, Go work in the garage, pick that damn Cadillac, and get your head out of this.
That's right.
That's where I do my best thinking.
I'm walking with music or I'm working in my garage, and that's where things start to gel.
But a lot of people don't do that anymore.
It's constant.
I'm the same way.
I'm on my laptop, I'm doing 10 different things.
I'm a terrible multitasker.
I do too much.
But it's like the patience to read a book.
Wow.
I mean, I barely made it through Isaacson in a week.
Oh, it's really good.
Oppenheimer, I read in a couple days.
That was really interesting for me.
When you write books, it runs impressive.
Yeah, less than people read.
They don't want people to read anymore.
A lot of people want libraries to be burned to the ground, like the Library of the Apollo and the Library of Alexandria.
They want to get rid of books.
It would make things very easy for them because if you have just a digital library, you alter it and that's the end of the whole deal.
Yeah, I asked some.
I'm right near Georgetown University and George Washington University.
And sometimes I walk up to young people and I said, Can I ask you a question?
I'm a historian and a writer.
And, you know, do you enjoy reading books about history and all these other things?
And they're like, No.
Rather get our information.
You know, I can watch a video in one hour instead of reading a book for three or four days.
I'm like, okay, well, I'm lazy too sometimes, but wow.
Wow, that's impressive.
We didn't have that in college.
Sorry.
We didn't have that.
You had to read a book.
You had to read books, plural.
And now they're, no, no, no, never mind that, kids, all online.
And they're talking about schools having proprietary laptops.
I mean, from grade kindergarten up, it's Pearson or some other big education conglomerate that says, oh, don't worry, we'll update information weekly.
So you'll have the most up to date information on history.
And you know that's just a giant pair of scissors.
Oh, yeah.
Real Foo Fighters Photos00:15:26
Yeah.
You're going to learn less and less about the arts and the Sistine Chapel, and God forbid that.
Lords of the Black Stone or the Teutonic Knights.
No, no, that's forget it.
No, it's only approved.
It's gone beyond George Elwell.
We went beyond Orwell, I don't know, 20 years ago.
We're way beyond 1984, the book.
We're in a world now where AI is in its infancy in the public sector.
Right.
You know, the military has had it for 30, 40 years and it is mature.
Mm hmm.
They've already been working on it.
Yeah.
Well, they got it from somebody.
Oh, to run, here's the key to our spaceship.
We get whatever we want, tons of that.
And they're like, well, wait a minute.
Even our psychic navigator pilots can't fly it.
They're like, oh, you need Max, the AI.
How?
Then they get in the ship and they're like, aha, where do you want to go?
What are your prerogatives?
Wow.
It's like, wow, we better start developing our own deal.
I'm not discrediting our engineers and computer engineers.
They're good too, but it's like they probably got some blueprints from somebody out there.
We're advancing.
Forget about the 20th century, just since 2000.
Wow, we've been advancing fast.
Your head's been.
And now Elon Musk wants an AI, automatic driving, autonomous vehicle that you can get in and drive around that will play what music it wants.
Maybe, you know, or, oh, Daniel, this is Max speaking.
Here's some news for you that you should consider.
Stephen Greer was arrested today for being a dissident and thrown in jail.
Oh, I always knew he was a dissident.
And so people don't add all this stuff up.
Yes, the turn of the century, the automobile, the airplane, the fast trains, everything, life was changing really fast in the 1890s, 1900s.
We're dealing with technologies now that can manipulate the human race in a way that those technologies really didn't.
Right.
You know, Elon Musk is all about new, new, new, push, push, push the technology envelope.
Well, that's good, but not a lot of wisdom.
He hires mostly young people, he fires people with alacrity.
And he's talking about AI, he's putting AI in the same category as, you know, A CVT transmission for his electric cars or something like that.
It's like, plug it in.
And then the infrared cameras and the sound sensors and the LIDAR sensors in the front of the car, they'll all work seamlessly with central command at Tesla.
Right.
And it's a cloudy day and you're in Nevada somewhere.
Where the hell's Area 51?
And no GPS or limited.
Wow.
Yeah.
Stops and I'm sorry, you're getting too close to Area 51.
Turn around, go back to Vegas and spend money.
Because a lot of that money in Vegas and all entertainment, some of it's being funneled off to you to the Deep State, all these programs.
Now, Elon Musk, he comes out with a big article that says, Oh, I hate government subsidies, but his companies and their directors, they love it.
Oh, yeah.
They get tons of it.
They hate it.
Americans, that is your tax dollars.
Billions being wasted.
One day he's worth $350 million and the next day he's $14 billion in debt.
Right.
He makes Howard Hughes look like a Girl Scout selling cookies.
I mean, he's wasting your money, all of our money.
I think it's absolutely true.
And I have a series of Elon Musk questions coming up for you.
Before we get into those, I'm going to ask you to share some interesting insights that you've dug up recently in regard to World War I.
This is very fascinating.
In World War I, in 1918, when the war ended, and the years following, British and German doctors who were dealing with the lion's share of Shell shock, which is severe PTSD.
The guys were shaking and staring, thousand yards stare, and they couldn't get to them.
They found out that a lot of them had all of a sudden multiple personality disorder.
They were born with somebody, but it was somebody else.
And they had two or three, four of these multiple personalities.
It's the brain's way of dealing with trauma, severe trauma.
And this gets into MKUltra techniques, you know, we're using drugs and trauma based mind fracturing.
But they knew it back then.
And I've researched some other things throughout history.
There's some evidence to suggest that this kind of suggestive brainwashing was going on in ancient times as well.
Whether the guys came back from the Peloponnesian War and, you know, and they found this out, I'm not sure.
But, you know, It's not, I think it's older than World War I, but people tend to think it's this post World War II phenomenon.
No.
And a lot of people say, well, you know, I'm a whistleblower.
I've been out in space fighting, you know, but I'll tell you right now, I've got multiple personality disorder, you know, from some of the training to do all that crazy stuff.
So I thought that was interesting.
I'd never heard the World War I story before.
Very interesting.
Well, there's a next stage.
You could say of UFO research, which needs to go back before Roswell and Kenneth Arnold and all that.
No, it's all terrific.
Yeah, exactly.
I think Nimza is also a piece of that.
And I feel like you're just going to keep going further back if you want to get to the truth of it.
The Cosmos Club is sitting right in the middle of it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Your friends at the Cosmos Club.
I'm not going.
I went once.
That was enough.
I mean, I'll go to a dinner if somebody invites me.
I'm not going to join.
It seemed really boring.
You know, the historical links with UFOs and everything, that's well, other researchers have documented that out the yin yang in religious texts and paintings and sky's a limit, Atlantis, everyone was coming and going, more traffic than there is today.
If you take optical invisibility out of the picture, you know, the sky, you know, I think one Air Force guy said, My God, the skies would darken with craft.
Wow.
That piece.
And I've actually seen one over my farm with my stepkids and everything, glowing ball, high altitude, no registration.
The military strobes beat fast, civilians, I'm a pilot.
And so I was like, well, and that thing was just steady and glowing.
You could see it with the naked eye because most of the time you need the Gen 3 or 4 military night vision.
I had my friends John and John Luke, who were very good in secret societies and occult, those guys are experts.
And we used those and we saw dozens.
Amazing.
Things flying around.
So, and you can't see them with the naked eye.
You can see any aircraft or satellite with a naked eye.
Why is this thing picking up?
And they glow severe brightness.
Incredible.
So, you know, it's very, yeah.
It's interesting to me the classification of craft as well.
Like, you know, the cigar shaped deal, the saucer deal, the disc, the boomerang.
Yeah, I mean, someone had pretty good on Twitter and everything like that.
It was pretty good of a big cigar ship.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
Well, this gets into the issue, and I got lambasted for it on Twitter.
Boy, they came after me with a noose and pitchforks.
And they had a very nice quality video of what they said was this Flight 370.
Oh, yeah.
They know that.
And there were three UFOs doing circles around it, which to me, let's just say for giggles, it's real.
They're doing circles, and then a flash of light, and this thing, everybody disappears into a portal.
So, these UFOs could be making a torsion field that is the right frequency to open that particular portal.
However, I said, um, you know, in our day and age, I'm sorry, there's enough incredible VFX software.
I worked in film and television in the 90s, maybe not back then, but they could certainly do it today.
And uh, it's sad photos and video, you know, to a degree, documents, you know, you can.
Verify them to some degree, but not 100%.
Yeah.
You know, it's like, I'm sorry.
And they went apeshit.
Well, the amazing thing is, you know, there is that gullibility factor, and you see it with the whole Corbel nonsense, the stuff that they rolled out, easily debunkable beach balls attacking the US Navy and things of that nature.
The truth is, there are real video, there are real photos, of course.
And that's the stuff that they don't let out.
So, on a civilian basis, we get those.
And I think we had a kind of a better run of that material, say, in the 40s, 50s, and 60s before you could manipulate photos very much.
Yeah, I like the photos of the US Navy supposedly leaked out from the periscope of a submarine.
And if you look at it closely, the sunlight diamonds and other things reflecting and everything, that's a very, very good fake if it is a fake.
I tend to think it's real.
I think half the photos and video are probably real.
It's just we need to discern which what's what.
Oh, absolutely.
Yeah, well, there's so much testimony around the craft.
When we look at a situation like that, you come into a situation technologically where you could almost debunk anything at this point because it could be made with VFX.
However, that's how they can stage the whole UFO threat invasion.
These AI generated photographs of Maui on fire, I mean, they're beautiful.
We're, we're, oh boy, this dovetails into everything.
This AI situation we're entering now is going to start to change everything, and boy, does it make our job harder.
Yeah.
AI did it.
That's not you, and that's AI.
And holy shit, it could be.
And we're entering a brave new world.
It's going to be much harder to deal with this now.
No question.
No question.
There's other things going on to distract us from.
And that's probably why you get these government agencies wanting to talk about the subject, because they have their own version of.
Of manipulating it and manipulating the backstory around it.
And it's very tricky because we've watched and commented on over the past couple of years since you came out and really started talking about this and written some really interesting fiction dealing with this subject matter.
Your latest is called Sanity Was a Luxury.
What's this one about?
It's a sequel to the other two.
Fantastic.
And it's on the Gustav Gun.
Hans Kamler and the Gustav Gun.
What could be better?
It was really interesting writing in Hans' voice.
And I pulled out all the engineering I could.
Tino Struckmann does a great job on his channel on YouTube.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Underground tunnels.
He shows you how vast that empire was in Poland, Hungary, Austria, Germany.
Did I miss something?
I don't know.
Czechoslovakia.
And just incredible amounts of building, of material buildings, underground warehouses, factories.
Incredible.
And, you know, so it was fun writing in Hans's voice.
And I got into the Lords of the Blackstone and that SS ritual stuff.
Yeah.
Always on the tip of everyone's tongue.
People should know that, like, you know, Vannevar Bush and John Trump are in your books as characters.
Yeah, there's Loki Trump in there.
Vannevar Bush, Oppenheimer.
I think they were all at several meetings somewhere, probably Douglas Aircraft, maybe near the Naval Base, San Diego Naval Base, where Americo Bota was.
So I took the page of William Thompson's book and I tried to make it as realistic as I could what was discussed in that meeting.
It's probably a little early.
I have it at 1943, it's probably 44.
But man, the Foo Fighters were in the Japanese theater too.
I want people to remember that.
Everyone was over Germany and stuff.
No, no.
They were flying loops like that video around B 29s.
They would follow them for hours.
And of course, all the guys are out there shooting with 50 calibers, you know, and, you know, intelligent balls of plasma.
This is where, you know, Pharaoh's talking about sentient plasma.
And I think that's real.
And that's what these things are.
They're drones, but, you know, and that's what the original, most of the original Foo Fighters, some were big.
Saucers and things they were crazy out of the coral sea and stuff, but everyone thinks European theater.
No, they were in the Asian theater too.
And they do.
Who do you think was operating the Foo Fighters?
Your guess is as good as mine.
I know you've looked at it for a while.
See, they knew we were on the way to dropping a bomb.
You know, they have time travel technology, it's part of their space travel.
Easy to say, Oh, well, here's some probabilities of the future.
Oh, they're going to drop nuclear weapons.
We've got problems, you know.
The kids are playing with dynamite and gasoline, and they're going to set everything on fire.
The new Oppenheimer book and movie are very good to watch.
It shows you the conflicts he had with all this because he quotes the Vedic texts.
I have them in my meeting because Robert Oppenheimer knew he was privy to some of the UFO file back then.
I'm sure, yeah, that's what they left out of the movie.
Everybody, oh, they had all the great minds on this.
I would have done the same thing if I was FDR Truman.
And I have a section, Truman's Pissed Off.
That's in the new book I'm writing now, but Truman.
But it makes sense.
And Oppenheimer's a very, you know, sort of a gentleman, a liberal, you know, and he's like, look, you can't just shoot these things down.
They're far advanced.
First, that's dangerous.
And then I have an Air Force general, a fictional one, but it's basically LeMay.
He's saying, you know, go to hell, you know, you pig eyed sack of shit.
Neuralink and Freedom Fighters00:06:35
We liberal.
You know, and that's probably what happened because.
They were dealing with it.
I know MacArthur knew about it.
MacArthur mentioned it in a speech later on in his life.
He said the next war is going to be interplanetary.
He knew about it.
There were reports unconfirmed, we don't have evidence, but people have written about it that when we were island hopping, the Marines and the Army soldiers were dealing with some strange people in the jungle shooting at them, just like Vietnam.
You know, it's very, everyone tries to think it's just the Foo Fighters.
No, it was all kinds of strange things going on in the war.
That little Los Angeles, yeah, Japanese blimp.
Yeah, that's going to withstand 500,000 rounds of 40 millimeter.
Yeah.
It's a gas bag.
That's nonsense, what they're trying to tell you.
Amazing.
Oh, the one thing I wanted to mention we knew this was coming, 60th anniversary of JFK.
Every conspiracy theory in the world is now public.
Sam Giancana's daughter and her cousin did it.
They should have.
Oh my God.
Yeah.
A dog did it.
It was Jack Ruby's dog.
Muddying the waters.
It's interesting, too, because Gin Kana and Kennedy go back to Joe Kennedy and all the rest.
So they're, you know, the last thing in the world they're going to do is assassinate them.
Ships.
You know, Frank Sinatra's next.
Wee.
Joe Kennedy.
Yeah.
When you look at that, though, it is interesting because if you take World War II, And then you flash forward to the Kennedy period, it seems like the UFO thing has gained such a secrecy strength that the ability to penetrate it becomes basically impossible in the Kennedy era.
Oh, no doubt.
No doubt.
It must have been horrendous.
There were only a few.
Jack was right then, obviously, just like the show you just did recently.
I mean, he was ONI with Forstall in Berlin.
You know, he probably was, probably Forstall took him to see the stuff in Pilsen.
Maybe the same senator hanging with my father and Alan Dulles and Pat Moore in.
That had a lot of toys.
Probably he knew a lot of that.
And that's the problem was, you know, as he was getting higher up as a senator and then eventually as president, Alan Dulles and these people seemed like they were very ignorant of JFK's knowledge base.
Yeah.
And then they were like, oh, no, no, he was with Forrestal.
You know, alarm bells.
Right.
Yes.
Right.
And I think JFK was probably going to share it maybe only with the Russians.
Or he was going to have Marilyn Monroe do a press conference.
But that's kind of dumb.
No offense to Marilyn or Jack, but it's like she's a movie star, not known for scientific evaluation.
Sorry, she looks good in a Cadillac convertible.
I think it would have been good, but it would have put her on the tabloids with Jackie Gleason sees aliens at Hill Air Force Base or something.
Right, where is it?
Florida, yes, Homestead, yeah, amazing.
Stuff now, but you know, it's like that's not the person I would entrust.
I would have Bobby do it.
I think Bobby saw the writing on the wall and said, I'm not gonna do it until I'm president, then I'll do it.
But you know, they both seem to be young and naive to a degree.
You know, are you kidding me?
You're gonna just gonna willy nilly share this with the Russians because you're president of the United States?
No, did Ike not tell you about his potential invasion of Area 51?
With the first army, and he decided against it because he had two strokes.
You know, and oh, by the way, don't mess with these people.
It seems very naive, arrogant, and hot headed.
I admire the shit out of him, but not those three traits.
And at 42, if I was some hot headed guy getting it, I probably would have made those mistakes as well.
But probably not because the dark black hats of the world back then, I mean, They thought they could, you know, it's like Elon Musk, you know, all these young people, millions of people behind him.
We can change the world, you know, with new tech.
No question.
We're going to get to Musk as well going forward.
I care what you wish for.
You step on some USAP toes or, you know, oh, my Tesla cars are now anti gravity and driverless.
You're going to start stepping on people's toes.
Yeah.
Musk is going to die of a heart attack, although he's drilling himself into an early grave as we speak.
Every hour, he's the most stressed out person on the face of the earth.
No question.
And with Musk, again, it's which one are we talking about?
We're talking about the Neuralink guy or the Freedom Fighter.
And he's doing Starlink, and by gosh, I'm not an anti Semite, even though I'm African or German.
Just throwing it out there.
I don't know.
He just hired a couple of German scientists, too.
So just throwing it out there.
I'm not accusing him.
I'm just saying.
They're going to get your Twitter account again.
Yeah, I don't think they hired an Afrikaner young genius willy nilly.
I think they chose very, very carefully.
Oh, it's unbelievable.
There's an excellent point that you've made before, which is since it's privatized at this level now, we used to have NASA was going to be the buildup out there.
Instead, you got the secret space program.
Yeah.
So when you go out there now, anything that you find, You don't have to report at all if you're a corporation.
It just becomes part of your corporate ledger information.
That's it.
So, you know, we know the government would lie about it anyway, but the thing is, there's no compulsion there.
So, literally, space just becomes this zone, which, in terms of getting the truth, there's no reliable sources.
No.
Once it goes corporate, you're done.
I mean, they're going to be started with, you know, fascism and corporations.
They go hand in hand.
I mean, America is just partially fascist.
It just is.
Corrupt Politics and Fascism00:02:22
I love these politicians.
They got up there, all of them.
They say, oh, we got to save democracy.
Well, we don't have a democracy.
It's a corrupt, to what degree you want to say it's corrupt, but it's a corrupt constitutional republic.
So, I mean, you know, my dad says that's too hard to say.
So they get up there and say, I'm going to save democracy for peace.
You know, scalar, you know, weapons for peace.
You know, Elrad, you know, it's just, God, it's hard to watch Tim Burchetti flip flops all the time.
I mean, it's just painful.
Well, let's talk about this for a minute with his press conference where he was like, I'd like to put the war pigs out of business.
Yeah.
And he's there with both Anna, Paulina, Luna all the time.
Like they are the UFO pair there in the Senate, in the Congress.
I'm not really sure what makes them, you know, kind of the go to people for this, but just looking at the way they've approached it.
You really want to know, Daniel?
I mean, that's a good question.
Okay.
You know, no offense to either of them.
She's beautiful.
She's a looker, as they say.
Oh, yeah.
And, um, She's definitely got a bit of a black hat streak to her.
He does too, although he tries to hide it as a Democrat.
You know, Democrat, Republicans, nonsense.
You're sort of read in on the whole secrets with the big boys and girls, or you're not.
And they don't seem like people who really are.
I think they shared a sliver of the UFO file.
Same thing with Rubio.
Rubio knows more.
He's the Hawk.
You know, he's Curtis LeMay wannabe in some sense.
And yeah, he's very hawkish.
He made fun of Grouche in the hearing.
Ah, little green men flying saucers.
Ha ha ha ha.
I was really angry at him for that.
And she's there as a sidekick.
Right.
Burchett, you know, and this beautiful woman, you know, it makes for an intriguing pair, but it's mostly psychological, I think.
Pick these people.
Burchett seems like a damn near moron to me.
Whistleblowers and Fake News00:14:22
Yeah.
Anyone else.
He's just following orders and screwing them up, probably.
Yeah.
I haven't found him particularly effective.
I'll put it to you that way.
And I think that you're right that there's a little washingness there.
He is not serving the state of Tennessee in any decent capacity whatsoever.
Maybe the little things, bridges, roads, schools, that kind of thing.
But on this subject, no.
He just has a mild interest in it.
He pretends to be this congressional watchdog.
And then he goofs around in the trial and makes everyone laugh.
That's not professional whatsoever.
Exactly.
He's always pulling that.
Oh, my wife's going to kill me.
Yeah.
I mean, we're talking about the survival of the human race in the long run.
And that's not damn funny at all.
No, I agree.
I agree.
Grandkids, my grandkids, I've got a third on the way.
I mean, I care about them.
Fantastic.
Well, if you were to rank this whole subject in terms of what the public actually knows versus what's being held back for them, what's the state of the situation for the average person on the ground in terms of what they know about the UFO file issue?
My wife and I were just discussing this over lunch.
I want to be careful here because I don't want to just say things.
I'm a downer guy.
No, I'm an optimist, but I'm a realist, somewhere in between.
If you look at it, people generally mention there's something around 3 million worldwide in the disclosure arena.
Probably, yes.
Maybe a few more.
I don't know.
I'd say that's around just right.
Yeah.
500,000 who are really knowledgeable and hardcore and know their stuff and all that.
If you go back to 1973 with J. Allen Hynek and others, checks are fatty.
The people around the UFO file back then.
If you adjust the knowledge base numbers back then for population, I wonder if we really do have more people now than we did then.
There's any way of doing that metric, but my general feeling is yes, there's a great awakening that started in the mid 60s.
Um, but people actively interested in this subject, I mean, you got to remember there's got to be a couple million people more, maybe, who are just like, Of course, I believe in UFOs and ET and other civilizations, and they read Asimov and you know, they watch movies and things like that.
They're like, Yeah, of course, but that's it.
They're not interested in anything.
Oh, the politics and the dirt, and I'm not interested in that.
And so you have to count them as part of this number.
Right.
But really, they're just on an armchair switching channels, and they've got literally 30 million other topics to watch.
I mean, if you look on Netflix, there's some UFO things, and there's Greer and Graham Hancock.
Yeah.
But there's 50 million choices.
Right.
They're watering down the narrative with more and more and more.
I mean, the Romans only had, you know, bread, wine, and circuses.
Right.
And the public just gambled or did some mild theaters.
They had not much.
We have millions and millions and millions of distractions now.
That's the problem with the internet.
The internet's great, but it's also the problem with it.
You know, Elon Musk, he has a board meeting with all these people.
He's like, I'm.
Stop the meeting and he goes and plays video games and drinks a thousand dollar a bottle.
Uh, you know, Napoleon Brandy with his buds right, you know, i'm like, he's 52 years old, he's not a kid, but he reflects the millennial.
You know it, we're going to get it done.
We're young we're, we're the young lions.
You know NEW NEW, NEW.
Cut the cut, the.
You know time frame for project completion in half, then cut it in half again, the urgency.
You know, my god, were they snorting meth?
I mean, i'm serious, I sleeps under his desk, you know.
But My point is, the Mustangs, you know, he's got millions of followers.
You know, he's got this cult of Musk.
True.
And he's got the personality to do it.
He's just, you know, my whole thing I wanted to talk about him was he is one of the biggest distractions in the world.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
I'm impressed.
You know, I'm impressed.
And so everyone's got this more and more everyday distractions, more and more conspiracy theories that water down and muddy the river.
They water down the narrative, they muddy the river.
Right.
So, this is the obfuscation of the entire issue.
Right.
I mean, my friend, you know, a smart guy, he's a finance guy, you know, he's in his 70s.
He sent me the article and he's like, Look, this is amazing.
I'm like, This has been known, you know, the Daily Mail article.
And I said, No, we've known about this for 45, 50 years.
Right.
But that's breaking news.
They're talking about it.
All news is good.
You know, all.
Press, good, bad, it's all, even when they land based, and that's still talking about the subject.
But it's just no, it's crucial.
I agree with you, John.
I'm very interested in your views on Elon Musk and the kind of transhumanist side of his development.
Everyone says he's always a great boom for humanity.
I'm like, what, building antiquated stuff and calling it new?
Yeah, that helped humanity.
How's that helped the American people?
Or, you know, he's using your money and he's wasting it, you know.
They might drip him like other corporations, drip him.
Oh, here's the new graphene AI interface, you know, gizmo.
It's just metamaterials and other things.
And all of a sudden they're like, oh, we'll put it in the Tesla car.
And that's it.
Yeah.
But remember, he could be working on secret programs, which might account for the severe stress that he's under.
Yeah.
Because he's had public tirades and breakdowns.
Yeah.
Who wouldn't?
I mean, you know, to be honest, I don't feel sorry for him, but I understand.
You know, but he's dealing with Mr. Globalani Black Hat and saying, you know, we're going to give you this graphene thing, but you're going to do what we want with it.
And he might have an ethical problem with that.
He's dealing with some of that.
Like other corporate CEOs, and they were just gotten rid of over the years.
Musk is a cult.
He's the face of all this, so he's a little harder to get rid of.
But they'll do it if he stands in their way on certain things too much.
I'm speculating, but that's what I've given all this stuff, digesting it over years.
It's just like, you better not protest too much, Mr. Musk.
They'll ruin him, so he'll step down.
I'm going to kill him.
It's too widely known.
They'll use him until they wring every last drop of blood out of him.
Do you think that?
Yeah, I agree 100%.
Do you think that with SpaceX, the agreement is you can't reveal anything UFO oriented when you go up there?
Don't say a damn thing, Mr. Musk.
You keep your mouth shut and keep quoting Fermi's paradox.
It is possible to send a mission to Mars using chemical rockets.
It's impractical.
It's financially stupid.
And it's going to have a horrible effect on the astronauts.
You know, it's zero G degrade your bones.
They've proven that.
And other functions of the body.
Oh, yeah.
For you.
And then they're going to plan to set up this janky colony on Mars.
And it's like, well, I wonder who else is on board with that plan.
You know, if other countries and maybe Mr. E.T. has colonies and bases there, he might not be very welcome.
Despite backing him.
And don't you think they'll use this whiz bang AI technology to digitally cobble up the mission and make it 100% fake and film it out in Arizona?
Hey, we're on Mars, day five.
We're driving our Tesla Mars buggy here and we're getting a good charge from the sun.
Easily.
Wow.
Yeah.
Who's going to disprove it?
Because they're filming it probably underground and then some things out on a military base in Arizona or somewhere.
You know, Doug Way Proving Grounds or something in Utah, you know, they'll have complete security.
There might be a whistleblower, and oh, it's fake.
And it's just, you said the moon landing is fake.
We know it's true.
And so they'll do that.
So Musk will land on Mars.
He'll be another hero, and the charade is pumped up, and there's more air pumped into it, and he's a bigger hero, and bigger and bigger and bigger.
They can't keep doing this stuff forever, though.
Do you think, when you look at that and you.
There's this book from 1952, which Werner von Braun wrote, called The Martian Project.
And in the book, he talks about Elon, who's the leader of Mars.
I mean, coincidence.
Called Carl Jung, synchronicity.
You know, it's interesting because Targ told me that when he met von Braun, he learned that von Braun's mother was very psychic.
And I wonder if.
If this isn't built in there, I mean, how odd is it to have this out there from the person who was the father of the space program?
And then 70 years later, you have a guy named Elon who wants to go to Mars with SpaceX.
Yeah.
Time exists all at once.
You can access it anytime you want, certain either psychic or technology gear.
I believe Project Looking Glass is real.
I've talked to a lot of people who say, well, I didn't hear it called that, but yeah, you know, three months, six months probabilities, you know, for warfare purposes, strategy and execution.
And so, yes.
Akashic Record?
Psychic is the psychics play a big component in this entire subject because the rumor is SEAL teams are psychic.
They have comms and everything, but it's, boy, does that make it, you know, comms can be tapped into their radio frequency, RF.
Right.
And so to be psychic, you could tell, hey, man, there's a baddie around the corner.
You know, it makes sense for that.
Spacecraft pilot and navigation, yeah, you better believe they're psychic.
It's going at the speed of the mind, as someone said.
I can't remember who said that.
It's happening in the nanosecond quantum field.
It's just there's, you've got to be a kick ass psychic to work in these black programs with this technology, whatever it is.
I don't care if you've got a black tank that's invisible, whatever, or you're piling in a triangle that's 10 miles wide for the Air Force, you know, or Space Force, it doesn't matter.
You've got to have psychic people because, you know, remember, You go out to space, the physics change, but consciousness probably changes to a degree.
And so you need that.
It's how ETs tell us through channelers and people oh, it's all psychic.
Nobody talks, very little talking, inefficient.
And so here you got your giant black triangle, and you're waiting at the Stargate for the wormhole to the Andromeda Galaxy.
And there's a line of ships, and they got space stations with restaurants and entertainment and everything like that.
And you're waiting for months.
You know, and boy, I'll bet they take their time.
Let's just speculate.
They, the American military in space, they say, okay, psychics, go train with some of these highfalutin ETs and learn more, get faster, better, faster, better, faster.
So when we don't take that dumb off ramp and we miss the Andromeda Galaxy and we end up in, you know, the 12th dimension again, you know, lost, you know, this is how a lot of this stuff works with space travel.
And it's consistent in the narrative.
From the SSP folks all the way up to Russell Targ and the remote viewer folks.
You know, it's like on Jack's forum, every now and then they talk about remote viewing and MKUltra and all that.
Oh, yeah.
And how it was connected.
Yes.
You're a psychic?
Well, we're going to make you a better psychic.
Really?
I'm all for the training.
All right.
What do I have to do?
And then, like, we're going to lock you in this Iron Maiden casket for a while and then, you know, put you out in the desert with scorpions and Komodo dragons chasing you.
That'll learn you, and you know, then you can go to the moon and tell us what's going on up there, right?
Yeah, um, your stress has incredible an effect on the mind.
Uh, in my racing days, you know, pro racing, you're racing at night in the rain at Daytona, you know, for 24 hours.
It's like I had missing time, I mean, it was doing some weird things.
Everyone takes a two hour shift, well, it's four in the morning, you know, your adrenaline's pumping, but your brain is doing you're very hyper focused, it's like a meditation.
But, you know, I had missing time and I came out of that experience thinking much faster.
Interesting.
Much faster because it's high stress.
One wrong move and you're dead.
So it has an effect on the brain.
Ice Tunnels in Argentina00:06:12
This whole, you know, and I've crashed and burned and all that bad stuff.
And that's traumatic.
I'm not too fractured, but still here, partially.
So all that stuff is very important.
It's not a question.
It's not a little part of the story, it's a major chunk.
I want to take you back to something that you said that your dad told you in relation to deep freeze in Antarctica.
And he was certainly being a little bit oblique about it, but he was giving you something in relation to it.
What is it that he told you deep freeze in Antarctica was all about?
He said that we were drilling missile silos with steam drills and we were doing sub pens like the Germans because the Russians were doing it, which is the old Cold War excuse.
It's valid, I suppose.
But then he said space operations, and he didn't elaborate on it.
And I asked him again over the years.
Antarctica really wasn't on my mind until I read Nick Cook's book.
It was in 2003.
But I asked him before he died a few times.
I said, Remember what you told me in Antarctica?
And he's like, Oh, what did I say?
I said, Space operations.
He's like, Oh, well, they got a lot of satellite traffic, and there's a hole.
Electromagnetic hole, and you know, you could launch things into space easier, whatever.
But he didn't, he was devoid of details.
Interesting.
But you know, I started talking about Bird and writing my book, and he was interested in that.
I said, You know, something big going on down the undercrowd.
He's like, He spent a lot of time down there.
But he was confirming that there's big military stuff going on, and it's getting bigger.
I think Turkey wants a base now.
Didn't you tell me that when he went down there, he would take you on a number of different trips, but he didn't take you to that one?
No way.
Yeah.
I asked him a dozen times.
I know he went three times as Secretary of Navy, maybe before that.
And as a senator on the Armed Services Committee, I think he did on one trip because he said, well, you know, we're doing, we're circumnavigating the globe and We're stopping along the way, and I said, You going to South America?
And he's like, Yeah, we're going to go there.
And he sort of had, if you go to Argentina, or, you know, and he said, Well, yeah, and, you know, Sao Paulo and something.
And I said, Why?
What's on there?
I don't know.
So he didn't.
But if you're going to go to Argentina, my guess is that's a stopping point going.
But he went to New Zealand, and that's the big one, because the Air Force takes off flights every half an hour, I was told.
I can't confirm that by anything on the internet, but it makes sense.
You need a lot of supplies every half hour.
And I don't know, it's a couple hour ride to McMurdo or something.
And then that's a stopping point.
And then there are stories that McMurdo, you just get on under the ice and there's tunnels to all our bases there and probably to some of our international bases.
They're all connected under the ice.
Fascinating.
You know, the environment above the ice is just horrific.
Blowing winds, 100 degrees below zero.
It's inhospitable at best.
Now, everything's under the ice, it's just practical.
You can watch Project Iceworm, and they kind of screwed that up, but not Operation Deep Freeze that was ongoing, and it's still ongoing officially.
That I know.
Absolutely incredible.
They're doing some big stuff down there.
Come on.
I think they probably found some ancient ruins, maybe some ancient spacecraft that had crashed and stuff.
Sure.
Something's got their attention.
And it's expensive and difficult to do anything there.
Right.
Very expensive and difficult.
But my guess is now maybe they've been, what, 50, 60 years we've been down there.
70 years, and they probably got a tunnel under the ocean to Argentina or somewhere else, maybe New Zealand.
And you don't see anyone hardly coming or going because you just get on a plane in New Zealand or get on the tunnel and go.
I mean, you have to, everyone's like, oh, it's impossible.
No, it's not.
It's just hard work.
Right.
With tunnel boring machines, if you're a thousand feet below the ocean floor, I think you're fine.
If you do geology and the substrata work, you can definitely dig a tunnel.
It's big enough for a two way highway.
Well, between Bird's explanation with high jump and all the weirdness there, and the genuine kind of strangeness of him going out there and then the Nazis seeking out his information about how to go there and everything, and then all these reports around Antarctica and the UFO file, sightings, it's all this stuff if you go through it for decades.
What is it that you think could be operational down there?
Oh, well, we know the Ice Cube project from Eric Hecker, which is neutrino tracking deep space.
Yes.
Yeah, you could track a sub on the other side of the world, but you could track a lot of other things.
So people tend to see one technology and they see, oh, it only does this.
It's like, no, you're looking at a Swiss Army now.
There's multiple things for your billions and trillions of taxpayer dollars.
The whole.
Is definitely good for space launches.
No one's covering that.
I was told that the no fly zone is for satellites too, as well as aircraft, and that the NSA runs that.
Interesting.
Neutrino Tracking Mysteries00:15:10
That's all I can find out about it.
Now, if that's true, why is the NSA in charge and not the United States Navy?
Right?
NSA is supposed to be a civilian agency up here in Maryland.
What are they doing down there?
So they're everywhere.
They're probably overseeing all the.
All the kids and making sure they don't fly over.
The Russians have, you know, they've done some studies of late Vostok, and there's a lot of electromagnetic anomalies around there and under the ice.
You know, it's we're not getting a lot of intel out of Antarctica, but there are tantalizing clues as to its importance.
Yes, absolutely.
This is what's interesting to me.
I did some research around this character, Lloyd Berkner, who Kennedy was going to meet at the trademark.
On his way, and he got vaccinated.
Yes, and so is the so called mayor of Area 51, Richard Bissell.
Bissell.
Yes.
My dad knew Richard Bissell very well.
Oh, I didn't know that.
Yes.
I met him when I was younger.
Very interesting guy.
He would always come to Alfalfa Club meetings, and I would always sit next to Clark Clifford, and he and I would talk about the Vietnam War and other things.
We were good historians that way.
But I remember Bissell, and my dad's like, oh, man.
That guy is a powerful guy around DC.
He would point out individuals to me and say, You know, if you want to know who's the most important guy in the room, you're looking at him.
So I just thought I'd drop that in there.
I don't know any secrets that he told me or anything, but it's.
No, no, I gotcha.
Well, Bissell's hardcore in the UFO file.
He controls everything in relation to Blue Book and everything else.
And the satellite setup, that whole thing about them using the satellites to spy inward and outward.
And of course, Kennedy gets rid of Bissell along with Dulles and the whole gang.
That was not smart.
He should have kept those enemies closer.
Interesting.
He really should have.
He signed his own death warrant.
He really just, damn him and Bobby.
My dad knew all three brothers.
He went to law school with Bobby at UVA.
He was best friends with Ted Kennedy, but my dad knew all three brothers, liked him, even though he worked on Nixon campaigns as an advanced man.
And I'd had long conversations.
I admire John and all three for certain things.
And we would have long discussions.
And he said, you know, I loved them, all of them.
But man, they could be arrogant and naive like nobody's business.
And to be fair, we all are in government.
I'm president of the United States.
I kick ass.
You get a little higher on the horse and you think, oh, they're not going to mess with me.
Oh, yes, they will.
My dad realized that.
He says, you can't go against the power structure in regards to super sensitive topics only so far.
And they ripped up the rule book and went, I admire that.
They ripped up the rule book and went straight at him.
Full power, you know, guns blazing.
And of course, but, you know, if I had to put myself in John Kennedy's position, I would not share the UFO file with the Soviets.
Interesting.
You could do it on the back channel a little bit and say, you know, I think that's what he was trying to get done.
You know, my dad said in the SALT II meetings in 1972 in Moscow, one of the major things that got done was a really, really good communication system between the White House, Pentagon, and the Kremlin.
He was directly involved with that system.
And because there was a lot of miscommunications, we could have gone to World War III a million times.
We got so close.
And it was really starting to worry people.
Well, it's fascinating because when you're mentioning these characters and people like Bissell and all that, just to round out this Berkner guy, he's with Bird in Antarctica from 1928 to 1930.
And radio sets up radio there in Little America.
Then he is part of the Robertson panel.
He heads it up for the first UFO 1952 panel.
So this guy is showing up, the Kennedy administration in Antarctica around the UFO file, heading it up.
And it's these threads of what's going on with these people.
So Berkner leaves a note about what he's going to talk with Kennedy about that day.
And he says, when we're done, it's going to have international staggering implications and all this stuff.
And Kennedy makes this list about.
Having the White House flag flown in and how they're going to deliver it by helicopter and all that.
That's what that was about.
This could have been the announcement of sharing these things with the Russians.
Yeah.
Berkner might have had a change of heart.
Didn't want to keep something secret because we were facing global thermonuclear war.
The Kennedys saved our ass with the Russian ambassador.
All of us, we owe them a debt of gratitude, saved all our lives.
And.
Bergner might have been having a change of heart because it's like, well, the secrecy is important, but not at the cost of blowing up the world, killing everyone.
Right.
Then no one wins.
So they might have said, okay, look, Kennedy probably had a group of people around a table.
Berkner was one of them.
Maybe Bissell, maybe some others.
Keep the guys in the fold and said, look, we've got to breach this subject a little with the Soviets and maybe a little bit with the public because, man, we don't want people to see things in the sky and think, well, we're shooting missiles and other things and aircraft with atomic weapons.
We could start World War III with, you know.
Some UFOs cruising over Kansas just picking up corn samples, you know, la de da.
You know, it's like, oh my God, a Russian bear bomber with an atomic weapon.
And it's like, oh, you know, and we were really close to some of that, which is probably why ET groups were like, we better turn off some of these big nukes.
Yeah.
Because we don't own this planet, folks.
We don't own it.
There are other people living here, pretty sure.
And, well, you make an excellent point about one of the key.
Functions of these UFO sightings is over nuclear bases, and at times they just shut down the missiles straight up.
Yeah.
John, my last question is for you, and this is all very, very interesting.
I'm kind of stuck on this UFO thing for 2024.
I have a feeling it's going to be right front and center in that presidential campaign.
Guys like Trump, guys like Bobby, can they do anything to move the UFO file if they get in?
Well, that's the billion dollar question now, isn't it?
I think they both like to.
The problem with everyone in government and the military, the problem is Chris Mellon, the company, and everybody, it's like, yes, we need to tell the public about the basics, but we don't want a wildfire to start.
So, wildfire is going to turn into a French Revolution, possibly.
I hope it wouldn't.
First of all, it's super difficult to understand some of this, the history of it.
But being the public, being the public, you know, they're going to make it a black and white thing, you know, and that's been the problem with disclosure for the last since Kennedy's time when they were like, oh, should we tell the public anything?
And it's like, no, it's going to start a wildfire.
The good information will be ruined by the bad information.
The public will just, you know, and the internet has made it a hundred times worse.
So, what to do?
Well, there's something driving them.
Whether it's Project Looking Last, looking in the future and saying, well, there's going to be disclosure anyway.
You better get ahead of it.
Like, shit, we better get ahead of it.
And they got to do something.
Right.
Is it the president's purview?
I don't think it should be.
I think they should get a scientist up there, not a politician or a military person.
Right.
I vote for you, but you guys do it, not me.
But somebody who's a civilian.
And maybe a group, men and women, hopefully multiracial, and say, well, you know, this is a difficult thing, but we got to come to terms with, you know, we're not alone in the universe and we've been visited.
And yes, we've had contact and some technology, you know, transfers and things like that.
You got to broach it.
The problem is, and I'll say it to a million times, they've waited too long.
They've had to wait too long to get guys like Bobby Ray Inman and the other black hats and some of the people who are really bad psychopaths.
With we don't know the names of, you know, who say, Yeah, you do that, I'm gonna blow up the world.
My buddies over here will blow up the world.
And they've been blackmailed to not revealing it.
Well, something's changed since 2017.
And I think it's some of these old guys have passed on.
Either they've had a come to Jesus moment and they have all the money in the world or something, they're like, sure, why not?
Doesn't affect me.
Or you get people that really don't want it.
But now a group, a faction within the military, industrial, intelligence, corporate complex says, well, now we have most of the cards.
So we're going to do something.
Whether you black hats want it or not, we have the gray hats.
And that's what we're seeing.
But unfortunately, I'm trying, you know, it's like my discussions with John L. Peterson and others.
I mean, Rare and everybody.
It's like they've waited too late, unfortunately.
The internet's mature.
There's a ton of information, both good and bad.
And the public does not have a lot of discernment.
They want easy black and white answers.
And if you say ET bad and we good, then most people will think that.
And it's wrong, it's very nuanced.
We live in a duality universe.
We've got duality to deal with on everybody's level out there.
And it's very complex and nuanced.
And the world doesn't like complex, nuanced, divisions of gray areas.
They want things easy, black and white.
Right.
That's the real problem the general public around the world.
I'm not knocking them.
I don't blame them for thinking that way.
We've been poorly educated.
We've been educated mostly.
Bullshit, lies about who we are, our history, everything.
It's like, and now you want to open Pandora's box, but you only want to open it a sliver.
That's not what Pandora's box is all about.
Pandora's box is about throwing it open and letting all the janky stuff down.
It's going to happen no matter what operation they do.
The different operations or choices they have right now are ones that are either quicker or slow it down.
And I'm kind of in favor of the slowing down thing.
Before I was like, you know, slam it open.
In fact, disassemble the whole box and shake it, shake it out.
Okay.
But, you know, that's going to cause major upset in the world.
Maybe loss of life.
I don't want that.
So is the slow drip thing, well, I've kind of been doing that for 70 years, but they've accelerated now a little more.
But they're throwing more lies and half truths around it.
And that's making it worse.
That's my point.
That's the whole reason I'm.
Coming out against Chris Mellon and all his teams, it's like, guys, I know what you're trying to do.
You're trying to do slow drip disclosure and don't want people to panic and commit suicide and all that.
But you're lying and you're using half truths and doing all this other stuff mixed in with the good ideas.
That's not a good strategy.
But they may be facing a scenario where there isn't a good strategy, it's the least worst choice.
Oh, right.
That makes me very sober, and everyone is like, shit, no matter what we do.
But I know this much through history.
It's like the more you lie about something big, the worse it's going to be when the truth finally comes out.
Absolutely.
And so, you know, I understand what they're doing.
You know, he's got theatrical training, he's very polished, and, you know, spooky, and oh gosh, darn it, Tim Burchett, you know, gee whiz, you know, and all this junk.
You know, and it's like, man, they're just got a giant lipstick that they're just putting on this massive monster hog.
Unbelievable.
Lipstick on a pig, and it's like, that's gonna make things worse than coming out and saying, you know, don't say you don't have to say a lot, but whatever you say, have it be the truth and not a mixed, an amalgam of you know, little white lies, outright fabrications, and you know, tidbits of truth.
The flavor, you know, the story told so many false stories at this point, yeah, between Lou and Grush and the whole history.
And the military denying it, denying, yeah, they're going to come up with national security as the default excuse for everything.
And it's like national security is important up to a point.
But this is beyond anything in our history.
And it completely freezes you down to the spine because they're making it worse.
Every grouch that comes out, every hearing, every dog and pony show, every lie and lie.
They got coming out here doing this stuff and saying, oh, well, you know, it's an anomaly in the phenomenon.
And saying it's an anomaly and saying it's a mystery and a phenomenon, you know, that kind of wishy washy rhetoric, that's making it far worse.
Because when they say it's a mystery, that is a 100% solid lie.
The U.S. military knows who's coming and going, they know their agendas, probably most of them.
And so it's a lie to say, gosh, it's a mystery we need to solve.
Vaccine Narratives and Lies00:09:56
Right.
You are perjuring yourself in the court of public opinion.
Maybe they don't give a shit.
The public's stupid and we don't care.
They'll believe anything we say because we're officials.
We're elected.
We're elected Chris Mellon to do this job or Grouche.
No one appointed them.
People don't forget that.
They think, didn't Congress appoint your cousin?
I'm like, no, no one did.
They appointed themselves.
Yes.
And that, all the responsibilities and dirty laundry and everything that goes with that, you know, because no one in Congress wanted to touch it.
No one in the military wanted to touch it.
Yeah, you guys do it.
You have our blessings, but nothing on paper, nothing public.
Who do you think was prompting them in the background?
Would you say it was the CIA doing the push because they wanted to?
And this actually gets to a question I had for you, which is Is this the X Protect group?
Is it the breakaways breaking back in?
Because they need to fast track the technology now.
They figured it out enough.
Now they need a story.
Yeah, they have.
Everything's become very mature.
Like Ben Rich said, we're interstellar.
Right.
And Ben Rich said that, not me.
You've got to take that into account that we may be mucking around the galaxy and beyond using wormholes with our friends and allies, fighting who knows who and giving Earth.
An iffy reputation, it doesn't need more bad publicity.
We have a terrible reputation by all accounts, you know.
It and so, yeah, it's CIA on board, probably part of it, part of the DIA, part of the NRO, part of the Air Force, Navy, intelligence, parts of them are on board with this, and maybe they're keeping the other factions at bay for now, right?
But if this thing goes off, I bet you there's a meeting held with 100 people, and they said, if this goes off the rails.
We're going to shut it down.
And that means we're all going to die with it.
If you say you can control this narrative and let out a little bit and keep society rolling around with our little technology rollout with Musk and everybody else, fine.
But if you screw up and it goes off the rails, we're going to do it.
We're going to shut it down.
And we have plausible possibilities.
That'll be a World War III type scenario in maybe a more limited fashion.
In that.
Everyone's like World War III.
They see the war in the Gaza Strip, World War III.
And it's like, no, no one's going to use big news, but they'll use everything else.
Yes.
You know, satellite based weapons that can decimate cities without radiation.
They'll use big stuff because if the narrative starts rolling off the tracks, and I don't see an alternative, I think it's going to at some point.
It's just a matter of when and where.
The real black hats might pull the cork and you know, right?
Musk is ramrodding all this technology, fast tracking it.
What is his impetus?
It can't just be market share against automakers and rocket makers, other space companies, gotta be something else giving him, laying a fire under his butt because he's he halves those production tables in time.
I got a half it, then a half it again.
Fire, you're fired, you hundred are fired.
I mean, he's he's got an impetus, a burning.
Psychological, sociopathic impetus to do this fast.
It's like a ticking time bomb scenario.
Because there might be a component where it's like, okay, we're rolling some of this out.
You corporations better start catching up and doing civilian versions of what we got in the back room at USAP and Utah and everything.
And it's like, oh, shit, that's going to take some engineering because you only gave us this much.
They're giving you more.
I mean, it's.
It's coming.
I think what a lot of people in that deep state world want, whether altruistic or not, and everything in between, they want to accelerate humanity quick into a class one civilization type.
Now, a class one civilization was coined by, I can't remember who, Jacques Villay or somebody, but that's someone with free energy, no war, and more equality.
Was that the whole Kardashev?
Yeah, all that.
It's like they want that, but not the equality part per se.
We don't want that.
We only want the, everyone knows about the technology, but there's something they can do about it.
So, and then we'll, you know, world populations, some people say they're dropping.
Maybe they'll accelerate that.
And then, you know, you've got that component.
And two billion sounds right.
We can control that.
And then Musk rules out the Neuralink en masse saying, you will get this new virus if you don't put it in your brain.
Oh, right.
Okay.
You know, there are ways to put a carrot in front of people, starving people, that are really insidious.
But, you know, there's easy ways to manipulate the herd.
This is really disturbing.
This is what keeps me up at night.
It's like, boy, the pandemic was a dry run.
All they have to do is launch a super virus, and it's like, oh, you need this vaccine.
And, you know, we really recommend this Elon Musk vaccine.
Version 2 chip.
This will prevent your immune system from going haywire and you won't die.
Oh, whoa.
Yes.
And people will.
Absolutely.
Because you can inject it.
Now, I'm sure you don't need to cut a hole in your brain in a few years.
The stories of nanite technology and uh, you know, all that stuff, where you know, the microchips are the size of human cells, you know, blood cells, you know, they probably have that, you know, nanites, right?
And and you know, a lot of people think there's nanites in us all now from the vaccine, so it's like maybe all they have to do is flip a switch because the nanites and everything are already in our system.
Oh, wow, I will obey Elon Musk, I will.
Drive my Tesla to work.
I will work an ATR day because that's good for the club.
Yeah.
I mean, these are, everyone thinks we're really headed towards this.
I mean, go test drive a freaking Mercedes and look at what all the AI in it is.
It's really intrusive and dangerous.
I mean, these are little things now, but they're going to get bigger, bigger and bigger and bigger until they say, you have to do this or you will die.
Reminds me of a cult.
You know, whether it's religious cult, 12 step programs, whatever, they always say, Do our dogma, believe in it, or you will die.
Right.
Die, die, die, die.
That works like a charm.
I've seen brainwashing in action.
My producer was an alcoholic.
I went to a lot of 12 step meetings with her in the South churches.
And the blue book rhetoric is just right out of Scientology.
It's like, You've got to believe in a higher power.
You've got to believe that you're nothing.
You're, You should be ashamed and guilty of your alcoholism and drugs.
You know, you should be ashamed of all that.
They use guilt as a tool and shame.
And then they say, you better read the big, big book and believe in every word and go to every meaning or you will die.
You will die, you will die, die.
They're going to do that on a different massive scale.
And they will say, fine, don't take the vaccine or chip, but you're going to die.
Right.
They're going to be really serious about it.
Musk will be out there.
I'm sorry, all my fans and everybody.
You've got to do this.
Don't worry, the Tesla version is the best.
Because everything he does, the version of, is the best.
Or he doesn't.
He's like, why is my car not flying on anti gravity?
Seriously.
And I'm like, well, there's challenges to engineering.
He's like, I don't care.
Do it.
And just says, do it.
Doesn't say how to do it.
He just says, do it.
And so, you know, they're going to roll out a lot of technologies.
They'll use corporations and people like Elon Musk to do so, Bezos, other cult personalities.
And they'll say, please do this.
You know, please drive a car with a Tesla box in it or you will die.
Or they will say, they will say, you know, traffic deaths have increased.
They could say anything along in the news media.
Oh, it's not 1.3 million.
Now it's a billion worldwide.
You better start using the black box or buy a Tesla.
Unbelievable.
The big three GM will say, well, you can drive our electric Cadillac, Lyric, but it's got a Tesla black box in it or you will die.
Man, what a strange new world we're in.
And it's accelerating at a fast rate.
Where is the UFO file going?
At this point, in the dumpster, it's let me let me let me think.
It's like you know, what it reminds me of, it reminds me of an antique painting.
Well, let's just say, you know, an impressionist, French impressionist.
And it's it's took years for the artist to do it with a lot of help from a lot of people.
Warping Reality Like Stew00:03:24
There were a lot of artists, of our group effort by the impressionists along the Seine, eating picnics and drinking absinthe.
And hallucinating.
But, and then all of a sudden it comes along and it's like, it's hanging out in a public square.
And everyone's like, I'm an artist.
I'm artistic.
I'm going to change this.
Yeah, that looks better.
And then other people, there's brushes and paints everywhere.
Yeah, I'm going to change this.
And then it just gets added on to, and now we're troweling globs of paint.
The original painting is long gone.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
We're stuck with this thing that's not an impressionist painting.
It's just a pile of paint and, you know, talk about a thousand cooks in a kitchen.
You got millions.
And you and I are doing the same thing.
We are adding our voices to this mix.
Yeah.
Probably more akin to a chef doing a stew.
Oh, what should I put in it?
And everyone's like, you need this and that.
Well, that doesn't go together.
So what?
A million cooks ruin the stew.
UFO file is a living, breathing, morphing entity in itself.
And the people that want to keep it hidden keep throwing rhubarb and Pop Tarts into us with the bouillabaisse.
That doesn't work.
Who cares?
I'll derail the flavor.
We don't want the real, we don't want anybody tasting the chicken that's in it.
That's protein.
That's hard protein.
No, no, I'll keep hot sauce.
And it's getting obfuscated at an accelerated rate.
Oh, wow.
Yes.
And it's warping and changing as it should.
New intel, new insights, new opinions, new everything, whistleblowers.
But boy, the stew is unpalatable.
You take one bite and it's like, oh, God.
It's the UFO menu, as it were.
It's the only thing we have to eat as far as this issue goes.
Is the UFO file.
And it's excluding our history and anthropology and megalithic building and religious issues and ancient history and warfare.
It's excluding a lot of that.
They're focusing on the hardware and lights in the sky and maybe a gray guy with big eyes, sunglasses on.
And that's all they're talking about.
And this goes back to the story that a military friend of my father told me long ago.
He says, They don't give up flying.
About talk, everyone talking about aliens and landings and back engineering stories, and you know, they don't care about that, they care about all the history and you know, the religious stuff and what they're doing in USAF.
They want all that extraneous stuff, so we're stuck with the pot of crappy stew, but all the side dishes oh no, there's no mac and cheese with lobster and parmesan, no way, you know, and they're focusing on the pot of unpalatable stew, and they keep.
Daily adding more and more stuff.
Ancient Psychic Human Races00:03:59
Fascinating.
Yes.
How are you going to reconcile that if they're saying there are no side dishes or those aren't important?
They'll ruin your palate for the main course.
You know, it's like that.
And so over the years, it's just gotten tainted and more tainted and screwed up and messed up.
And all, yeah, that's delicious, but that's going to get that away from us.
You know, that's going to spoil your appetite for the main event.
Most people don't dig into the history, connect the dots with megalithic structures that are impossible.
And the pyramid, the Giza Plateau, that's a lifetime of study.
Oh, absolutely.
Lifetimes, yeah.
You know, I've read all of John Anthony West, and Farrell has good insights, others have good insights, you know.
And it's like, oh man, that whole ancient history side of this whole file that's a lifetime of study.
Megaliths, I mean, that take a good year of constant study to figure out, you know, in Baalbek, those two stones, one's 1400 tons and the other 1600 tons at Baalbek, they're like, oh, they use logs with olive oil and oxen and a million.
One of the things you mentioned there, which I can't let you get away without asking your opinion.
I never get away with anything.
They always catch me, Daniel.
Those cone heads.
Good.
And the cone head skulls.
What do you think was going on there?
Are they imitating visitors?
Is it some kind of psychic process where they extend the pineal gland?
What's happening?
You mean with the oblong headed people?
Yeah.
Well, in ancient history, well, we got several issues.
Uh, one Neanderthals had bigger brains than we did, yet we turned out to have higher consciousness skills and you know, invent the wheel.
Um, what is that?
Okay, so let's assume for giggles it's true that ET's been adding genetics to our genome, and maybe it's true that some of the Italian Deste royalty and others had kind of bigger, strange looking melon heads, you know.
And hmm, it was probably, you know, were they Martians that came out from the damaged civilizations?
Were they smarter?
Were they more psychic?
That probably, I'm not an anthropologist, I've studied it, but it's like a bigger brain doesn't necessarily make you smarter.
But maybe what it was was the ability to this race of humans, they were humans, they were a different race, you know, they have extra psychic and telekinesis abilities, the abilities to astral travel on petafsnap, you know, and, you know, meditate and, Do wise things, maybe move giant stones with their minds.
You need some capacity in cubic centimeters to do that.
You know, it's like an engine.
If you build a bigger engine, it's going to be more power, more torque for you to do whatever job you need it to do.
You can make a smaller engine do that with turbochargers and nitrous oxide and other things.
No, it seemed like this race found wherever they came from, or maybe they grew out of the human race at some point.
But whatever happened, or they were an ET group that seated some of us and they were like, hung around, said, Well, this is fun.
And then they interbreeded, and slowly the head shrunk over the eons.
Let's say they've been here a couple hundred thousand years.
And so that works, or they had a genetic problem or something, and they died out quicker.
We have big heads, but damn it, I keep getting the fever.
Damn that bayou swamp.
And those alligators, damn it, the alligator people, we gotta watch for them.
Debunking Clickbait Theories00:15:16
And so there's a lot of theories that do make sense over it.
They were certainly people of importance, the Peruvian ones.
And I found them on some illustrations from ancient China.
They weren't oblong, but they were big.
I was like, Fascinating.
Is that Confucius?
This is like the Ming Dynasty era.
And, you know, it's like, who's the soothsayer guy?
Oh, the wizard of, you know, Qi Ching.
And it's like, who's that?
And why is his head so big around the campfire?
And it's so, it's all around the world.
It's not just Peru and, you know, Europe and, you know, maybe some of the.
The priests and bishops had bigger heads over the years.
You think it's an Atlantean, like an ET Atlantean leftover?
It could have been.
I remember Atlantis, Casey and everybody talks about Atlantis.
Everyone who writes about it says it was intergalactic.
You know, it was people coming and going every day.
Hey, we got a banana cream pie from Betelgeuse.
Here's some orichalcum and some crystals.
Oh, cool.
You know, there was trade.
I think that trade never stopped.
Interesting.
It was just hidden from us.
Do you think the atomic explosions were related to all the UFO activity after the fact?
Oh, there was UFO activity before the fact.
Yes.
They knew where we were up to.
They're stupid.
They didn't traverse space and time from other galaxies because they're stupid.
They know exactly what's going on with the kids, the diamond, and the matches and the gasoline.
They know exactly what's going on.
They don't want to interfere too much.
That's the narrative.
Law of non-intervention, which gets into hermetic law.
I believe in that.
But they monitored it closely.
But man, Oppenheimer said it, I have become the destroyer of worlds.
That's from the Vedic test, the Mahabharata, worlds plural.
He knew they were cutting through the dimensions and killing people we can't see.
And that's probably why when we did the hydrogen bomb, as Farrell said, the yields were much higher.
And then we were sucking energy in from other dimensions, higher dimensions.
All right.
Well, I bet that messed up things.
So they got together and started.
Look at history.
It's an incredible miracle that no rogue agent has gotten a nuclear bomb and set it off in the 75 years.
Absolutely.
John, what are they up to now?
Talk about.
Farrell said the kitchen sink.
Holy cow.
They're doing the whole kitchen.
Beef up the UFO vial.
More JFK conspiracy.
More wars.
More this, more that.
Everything.
More Elon Musk nonsense.
You know.
I mean, the airwaves are just flooded with this crap.
It's unbelievable.
I don't blame anyone for being confused or distracted or bored.
I really don't.
I mean, I'm trying to make heads or tails of it myself.
I mean, my wife and I watch a little bit of the news.
I peruse a couple of news services and see what they're up to.
I was up to something.
And it's like, whoa.
And they must be talking about the UFO file more.
They're debunking it and they're adding on to it, debunking it, add on in equal measure.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
What happens if you have yin and yang and two equal forces?
Balance, stability, status quo.
Right.
So, more conspiracy, more debunking, and congressional nonsense.
It's really going nowhere.
It does a little of this, but really it's staying in this middle zone.
And I think that's also part of the idea.
They're using it as clickbait.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You can't not talk about it.
That's suspicious now with the internet or conspiracy theorists worldwide.
You got to do something.
So talk more about it, but debunk it.
Come out with the Chris Mellon thing and then have Congress and all these other agencies in the news giggle over it and debunk it.
So every time, you know, it's like what they asked Stanton Friedman, I think 10 years ago at one of the UFO conferences.
And they said, you know, the hippie guy got up and said, you know, don't you think we're doing great things here at the contact in the desert?
You know, 10 or whatever.
Don't you think we're moving along?
He's like, no.
It's like, don't you think we've advanced the knowledge of UFOs and the UFO violence?
Not really.
A little.
A little.
And if he was alive today, he'd say the same thing.
There's more of it.
No question.
But it's just more.
Oh, the disclosure movement's winning.
No, they're not.
I'm sorry.
That's a realist telling you my observation.
We'd advance a little bit with the public and the press.
Then the whole grouche thing was debunked and the hearing went south and little green men and flying saucers.
And then we're back to.
To 10 or 20 years ago.
People calling me up and saying, Oh, the trial went nowhere.
You're full of shit.
And all your.
That's unbelievable.
Yeah.
We're all in on it.
Grouche, too.
I'm convinced of that.
I said that on our last interview, but that was before the Grouche hearing.
Our last interview.
I said, I think they're all in on it.
Yeah.
Burchett and everything.
And I was proven right.
One person was like, You're right.
Everyone else is like, well, you're finally getting you melons, you know.
You know, it, but they were all in cahoots.
Yeah, they signaled to their various groups, no, we'll play ball by your rules.
Don't worry, we're not gonna, we're not gonna.
Grouche's testimony, all the stuff he said was third party, you know, innuendo.
And, and you know, it's like, remember the old days, someone would write a third party post dated check and try to give it to you instead of cash.
It was very rare, but.
That's what he was doing.
Yes.
A dumb third party post dated check.
Well, I met someone who saw the photo.
That's ultimate deniability.
You could make the argument, Daniel.
You could.
That Grusha set back ufology 10 years.
Oh, wow.
Yes.
15 years.
With this dog and pony show nonsense hearing.
Came right after Dr. Greer's press conference at the press club in D.C. Came right after it, suspiciously.
And with Burchett shooting his dumb mouth off on everything, saying, they get to the bottom of this by misleading people and telling lies.
That's how they're going to get to the bottom of it.
So they're going to come out with their version of the truth, and there's some ETs, and whatever.
And that's it.
Go back to work, go back to school, and stop bothering us.
We'll tell you what you need to know publicly, when you need to know it, and what you need to know.
Right.
It's all under control.
And don't listen to this group of mad people over here waving flags and screaming and doing all this stuff.
Don't do that.
We're officials.
We're U.S. government officials or retired officials, retired military and intelligence people.
We're the ones who are going to give you the truth.
We have the truth.
No one else does.
Yeah.
Now that'll work for a while, but it's going to go off these rails.
I don't know.
It's an unbelievable situation.
I absolutely agree with you.
But you nailed it there, which is they've put it in a position where actually, strangely, it's being discredited more than ever.
Yeah.
And maybe they'll throw Grouch to the wolves, you know, like Oswald.
They have the ability.
UFO file Oswald.
I think you mentioned that.
Yes.
Your last show.
It's like, oh, I could see that too.
Hey, hey, help the world, David Grouch.
And then they just toss him to the rules after he's done a few, you know, Rogan shows.
And, you know, there's a table, you know, oh, yeah, outlet for the world.
What is once they get their data mining done with him?
They're like, the Bobo, the new Bobo.
They're already on the hunt for the new Bobo.
He's more than a Bobo, I think.
But he's suspiciously Tom DeLong esque.
You know, it's like Tom DeLong basically tripped over himself.
He's a punk rocker.
He does drugs, rides a skateboard, and then he wears a funny hat in the interviews and says, It's all cool, man.
It's all cool.
All right.
And okay, that didn't work.
Yeah, no kidding.
That didn't work.
You know, they used him up and they didn't toss him to the wolves.
He's still over there doing something skateboard rally, UFO conference.
Bring your skateboard, do acid, drop acid, ecstasy.
You know, and now they have Grouch, who's an Air Force officer, he's a major, and he's an official.
He's got a security clearance.
He's a real, forget everyone else we rolled out.
Forget it.
No, he's the real Gil, you know, American hero, Buck Rogers.
You know, here you go.
They've done all this stupid shit and 80 years of lying and all the Project Blue Books, and there's a lot of dirty laundry, not to mention the possibilities of new stuff, human trafficking that Greer covered by UAV and special forces, not military ones, but corporate special forces.
I believe that's true.
Boy, they don't want that.
I think when Danny Sheehan and I had our talk after the Greer conference, what he was telling me was, you know, Greer had some military whistleblowers that can be vetted.
And I talked to a couple of them.
They were very honest guys.
Excellent.
That they were really starting to do dangerous things in a very short sighted way.
And that could trigger these black hats to drop a bomb or something.
And so Greer's like, I don't believe in regressive ET.
Everyone's an angel.
And it's like, No, we live in a duality universe.
Everything is as a duality light and dark, gray.
If you spin the yin and yang symbol, it turns gray.
Excellent point.
Yes.
I figured that out out of my dumb head, but I did.
And it's like everything in the universe that way, it's logical.
But Greer says no.
And I think that's a dangerous message.
I told him that.
He's like, no, you don't know what you're talking about.
I said, okay, whatever, man.
But he's done a lot of good work other than that.
And these two whistleblowers he had, they were.
Boy, they were right at the end of the train line.
Boom.
They were yelling out stuff to high tech UFOs with artificial intelligence that were alive and human trafficking, drugs, and all that stuff.
They were really something.
But this is starting to nibble around that part of the cookie they don't want you to take a bite of.
Right.
And of course, I've been saying it.
I believe it because history is always much darker and dirtier and nastier than what they tell us in the books.
There's no question.
And it's like.
People don't do that, do the high school history and whatever.
And so it's, we're starting to get near that third rail.
And when people start stepping on the third rail, I mean, all kinds of fireworks are going to start to go off.
Chris Mellon included, and his guys, you know, they argue about Avi Loeb and, you know, whether Travis Taylor and Jack Sarfati can come up with an equation to explain warp drive.
And I'm like, that's interesting.
It is important, but it's nowhere near as important as the rest of the geopolitical stuff.
Yeah.
The societal effects.
That's a technical problem.
And so everyone's doing their bit.
I'm not knocking them.
I think it's interesting stuff, the physics that I can understand.
But that's only one facet of it.
And human nature is like, well, we'll tackle this problem.
Well, the problem with that is this is not a piecemeal problem.
This is a problem that you must, you've got to try to understand the whole thing where it won't make any sense.
Well, why are, you know, everyone's argument of why is ET coming here if we're so violent?
Right.
Maybe that's why they're coming.
Right.
Is to help out a little bit on the down low.
With how and under cosmic law or whatever they can do that because everything's going off the rail, the human experiments have gone off the rail.
Oh, wow, never supposed to be this violent and genocidal.
And oh, by the way, you're out in space fighting people.
Whoops!
Uh, that wasn't part of the grand plan that we had, you know, half a million million years ago for you guys.
We wanted to become spiritual and yogis and meditative and service to others and help people and bake cookies and cakes.
This could be part of it too, John.
They're looking.
In the future, they're seeing earth changes are coming in, and they're like, oh, this is what we're doing.
We're speeding up our own clock.
Right.
Some of these earth changes they talk about can be human made.
Excellent point.
Yes.
This cosmic war, sure, you can get it cheap.
You just spaceship and you take your tractor beam and you throw rocks, you throw asteroids and everything, and that does it too.
But that's really damaging.
Tidal waves, the Great Flood, it damaged a lot of stuff.
But earthquake weapons.
And what if Atlantis was sunk using those?
Yes, there was a flood afterwards, maybe because of some other factors, but they used those weapons.
And those could be far more destructive than atomic bombs.
Yeah.
I mean, if it's true that one torpedo placed in the right place can start a chain reaction and half of Australia falls into the sea, that's got my attention.
And that's science.
That's not woo woo stuff.
Aliens throwing thunderbolts.
That's stuff we cobbled together using, you know, maybe some ET Intel blueprints, but we did it.
Well, there's the Nikola Tesla story from 1900 where he was dared, you know, you say you can do this, can you actually do it?
And he caused an earthquake in Manhattan.
Yeah, I heard that.
So we've had that technology for a long time.
Yeah, I don't think it's anything new.
Everything is new and improved to say in America.
New and improved.
Piecing Together Clues00:09:00
That's a spirit.
If you find a chest of treasure in the desert lands of Anunnaki stuff, they'll use Anunnaki weapons.
Oh, far out.
And then you give it to Raytheon and everybody, the whole gang of corporations, and they're like, figure it out.
And they figure it out.
They're like, we can put all this stuff together with our stuff and make it much more powerful.
Wow.
That is the danger.
We could ever have cobbled together.
That's why the archaeology wars.
Right.
And this is the human creativity part that it said, we are so creative.
12 strands of DNA and a lot of cosmic DNA.
We're so creative, not necessarily smart, but creative.
And therefore, a lot of ETs out there, they're very intellectual, but they lack this creative, this right brain creativity.
That could answer a lot of questions as to why we're still around.
Absolutely, yes.
You know, because if I was a couple of ET nations, I'd be like, you know, these guys are great and everything, but they're destroying Mother Earth.
Mother Earth is very important to the cosmos.
No question.
I kind of vote we should just wipe them out.
But they didn't.
Not yet.
But we're getting to the pinnacle soon.
I think within 25 years of all this, whatever happens, it's not going to be pretty.
I hope the loss of life is minimal.
I really do.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
No question.
You've made the good point before.
And I think this is really going right to the heart of the matter, which is people are going to need some explanation when all this hits because they've been so tuned out.
And they're going to rely on people who've been aware on some level of these things.
And because there's going to be a kind of a huge gap of awareness, it's finally going to be exposed.
And if anything, they're going to need people to talk them back down to the ground.
History has shown us that people are hardwired to obey authority, crystal clear.
That's number one.
If anything strange happens in our history, whatever it is, wars, everything, they're going to go to the officials, government first.
The disclosure movement will be dead last.
Oh, yeah.
Per capita.
Yes, some people will automatically say, oh, yeah, I knew it.
I knew it.
They were on the fence to begin with.
But the majority of people around the world will be dead last.
It'll be when governments are starting to crumble and implode from the inside, and corporations and whistleblowers coming out en masse.
And getting coverage, remember the media is janky as hell, so people are going to have to turn away from the mainstream media and start accepting some of the alternative media.
That's another big problem.
Uh, how we're going to get that done, and then they'll be like, Oh, maybe we should consider some of these nutty people, maybe they had a point, but we'll be last, we'll be dead last.
Yeah, it's just human nature.
I mean, I was the same way when I did my research, I went to the government archives, I went to the U.S. Navy archives, I did everything, and they know what happened.
And of course, that was wrong.
You get to a certain level, and then you can't go any forward after that.
And that's when people either have an epiphany or they're like, well, then all that stuff is nonsense.
It doesn't exist.
Because the official record said, no, it doesn't exist because it's not there.
And most of our history is missing.
The Bible and the Quran and Zoroaster, all that stuff is missing.
And so, It's going to take a while to piece all that together.
I'll be gone.
You might see people, the world turning more towards the disclosure movement as a whole and ideas and certain things.
I'll be gone.
We're talking 40 years from now.
Oh, wow.
Maybe 50.
I don't know.
It depends on world events.
No one can predict anything.
That's why I hate all these prophecies and even Project Looking Glass.
That's probabilities only.
Exactly.
Everyone's like, oh no, it's written in stone.
It is written.
You know, like.
Well, John, you'll live to 100.
You know that.
Come on.
You'll live to at least 100.
Come on.
No, I've got health issues.
I'm not.
I don't want to be too old.
I'm in severe chronic pain as it is.
So I'll be gone.
But I want my grandkids to at least have a fair shake of everything.
I'll leave my stuff for them in an archive for everyone, anyone who wants it.
You put it on the internet, someone can always take it down.
Right.
I assume it's in the Akashic records.
So ET could say, don't worry, they erased the internet, but don't worry, here it is with the tablets of destination.
But it's always good to have a hard copy somewhere.
I have a hard copy on a hard drive, everything I do in a Faraday cage type situation.
Hopefully, for what it's worth for my grandkids.
But it's going to be a heavy lift for people, especially people that aren't naturally in the awakening process.
It's not their faults.
It's just the way they're sort of reincarnational lives and karma and everything's working out.
Everyone's learning lessons.
Shit, I learn new shit every day.
But it's like, that's going to be a really heavy lift for a lot of people.
But we don't need everyone on earth to be on board in 30 years.
We just need 100 million.
It's 3 million now, give or take.
We need 250 million people.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
The others will be like, oh, that makes sense.
Daniel List's grandson.
What did he say?
My creative kids, they're all stepchildren.
And so they'll be, oh, Warner?
No, we're not related to him.
They might have a problem with that because I don't sugarcoat anything.
And that's needed too.
Well, that's why you're here, really, because you've put it out there.
And you put a lot of things on the record, I think, in a very brave way.
Fashion, so we all appreciate it, John.
Thank you, Chris Melanie Rouge, for you know, exactly.
For example, putting the stamp on Paul Mellon that I'm not completely a delusional loon, as the people on Jack's forum always call me.
Here's a list of crooks and loons.
You and I are in the loon.
Now we're talking, you got to make it to the crooks and loons.
I don't know if you caught that, but I haven't seen it yet, but I can't wait.
It's a stream of thought post, you'll have to go through 100 pages.
Those guys don't delete stuff.
But, you know, it's going to be interesting.
I think the human race will survive, but it's always going to be different from what it is now.
In 100 years, it's not going to look anything like it does now.
I think there'll be a lot less people on Earth, but it'll be more of a natural, who knows what's natural.
You know, the pandemic viruses, they may be working slowly, you know, especially a lot of the ones that are target for people over 50.
You know, I might be suffering from that.
Oh, yeah.
Folks aren't.
So they're killing, they want to, some people want to kill off the older knowledge base, the older wisdom and knowledge base.
Exactly.
It's like that movie Logan's Run, they all died at 30.
That's right.
Yeah.
And it was artificial for many reasons.
But one of the reasons is when they started to get a clue about things, and Logan does, and his girlfriend, that's when you die.
So it's like a lot of historians, it's really sad when they're at the top of their game, they're like 90 and they pop off.
Wow.
Maybe that's by design in our genome.
You know, let's not let these guys get to be 500.
They'll know too much and they'll be really wise.
And that's why it's like a Tower of Babel moment right there.
A lot of ETs are thousands of years old.
I believe that.
Yeah.
Because 100 years is nothing.
You get old.
It's like all of it just was a blur.
You know, and I finally started getting a clue.
I think it's for me, 60, 59.
Started really piecing the stuff together.
Everything before that, I was like, eh.
Sorry.
Design in Our Genome00:01:08
Yeah.
And you have to live long enough to get me in the head.
It was like a mule kicked me in the head.
Yeah.
Piece it together, you moron.
My iron self calls me dummy.
Piece it together, dummy.
And maybe you won't be so much of a dummy in a thousand years, but it's going to take you a long time.
Others, not so much, but you, a thousand years.
So I got another 900 years of lifetimes to add up, but I'm getting there.
Absolutely.
I'm in the slow lane now.
John, it's great to see you.
Thanks.
And we talked more soon.
It sounds good.
Just amazing insights tonight.
John Warner's latest book, Sanity Was a Luxury, is available now on Amazon and everywhere.
We're going to have John back on the show again soon to talk about the UFO hearings.
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