Joseph Farrell and Daniel Liszt dissect the Giza Death Star theory, arguing the pyramid is a 10,500 BC time-altering machine built by an advanced pre-Egyptian culture rather than Pharaoh Khufu. They allege British Colonel Howard Vyse faked cartouche discoveries to suppress this knowledge, linking the site to secret societies like the Bavarian Illuminati and Napoleon's expedition. The conversation traces Neoplatonic influences through Cosimo de' Medici's translation of the Hermetica, which allegedly triggered the Renaissance, before critiquing James Billington's political interpretations in favor of a global cultural transformation involving extraterrestrial archaeology and mystery schools. Ultimately, the discussion frames history as a centuries-old struggle for control over lost wisdom and advanced physics. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, WAV2VEC2_ASR_BASE_960H, sat-12l-sm, script v26.04.01, and large-v3-turbo
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Miniature Dimensional Analog00:13:20
Hello, everyone.
This is Dark Journalist.
Tonight, I have a special part two interview for you with Oxford scholar Dr. Joseph Farrell.
Dr. Farrell's Giza Death Star book series has presented evidence that the Great Pyramid at Giza is a much older structure than traditional archaeology says.
He claims it's the direct result of an advanced technology held by an ancient pre Egyptian culture.
Today, Dr. Farrell will go deep on the implications of the time altering physics the Great Pyramid represents.
Please join us now.
Joseph, my first question is How old is the Great Pyramid at Giza?
Given all the research you've done for Giza Death Star and the incredible implications of what they were used for in this whole cosmic war scenario.
Well, my guess is I believe that there are three layers of construction at Giza.
And this is actually Alan Alford's idea.
And I think he's.
Absolutely, definitely, onto something here.
He lays all this out in a book of his called The Phoenix Solution.
But the oldest layer of construction, and incidentally, the most perfect layer of construction at Giza, is the Great Pyramid itself.
So, in other words, like him, I believe the Great Pyramid is sui generis.
It's something unique unto itself, barring.
Any other pyramidal structure in the world, and for that matter, in Egypt.
It is absolutely the oldest, and it is absolutely the most unique, and it is absolutely, in terms of its engineering and so on, it's absolutely the most over engineered and precise instrument that you can find on the planet's surface.
That means, in my mind, that it is at least as old as the flood if you're dating it to 10,500 BC.
Mm hmm.
I have no problem actually with it being much, much older than that.
Fascinating.
There's really no way we can date the structure because it's so anomalous.
And even some of the carvings, the actual symbolic carvings on the structure, in my opinion, may have been added at a much later date.
They may be original to the structure, and you'll see what they are in this second book that we're waiting for.
Fantastic.
There are actual carvings on the actual entrance of the Great Pyramid that may be original to the structure.
They may not be.
But they are of a character and quality entirely different than any Egyptian hieroglyphic that you've ever seen.
Oh, wow.
Entirely different.
In fact, they look almost quasi mathematical.
Totally different culture.
Mathematical.
Yeah.
Totally different culture.
So that's.
The first layer.
The second layer, I think, is represented by the Sphinx, the Valley Temples, and the Pyramid of Sephirin, the second big pyramid, which, incidentally, the pyramid on the cover of the book that's supposed to be about the Great Pyramid, that's actually the Pyramid of Sephirin.
I don't know why my publisher did that.
Hello, Adventures Unlimited Press.
Well, David Childress, I know David very well, and he knows good and well that that's not the Great Pyramid.
But anyway.
It's a good looking cover.
It's a good looking cover.
I think that was probably in his mind.
But yeah, I think that's the second layer.
And it's a slightly declined layer in the sense that the perfection is not quite up to that of the Great Pyramid.
Then there's the third layer at Giza, which is genuinely Egyptian.
Uh huh.
So Giza is this kind of archaeological palimpsest, if I can.
Coined the term.
It's got several different layers of construction all present there at that site.
But I do think the Great Pyramid is much older.
That's just my personal opinion, but much older than most people think it is.
There's a lot of archaeo astronomy that agrees with you on that because of the way they were laid out.
My question for you is all the research that was done about them being laid out as Orion's belt.
Do you think that that's true?
I think the compound itself is, yes, because.
The thing I'm not talking about in the book is the compound and the possible physics behind it, other than in a very general, cursory way.
But I do think that there is, once the pyramid as a weapon is destroyed, the pyramid itself, I think, was incorporated into a much larger machine like plan at Giza for whatever reason.
Because it's very clear if you rotate the compound, Through six rotations of 60 degrees and take a snapshot of the compound from above, what do you have?
Well, you have a Mogad David.
And it's very clear, it's inescapable.
So that means that there's another layer of planning involved than was involved with the original structure.
And what that's for is, again, anybody's guess.
But again, I think it's a machine and I think it's a physics involved because what's a Mogad David?
A Mogan David is nothing but a flat two dimensional representation of Richard Hoagland's two circumscribed orthorotated tetrahedra and all the physics that he has been talking about over the years on that score.
So, yeah, I think again, whoever has been involved at that compound, you're clearly dealing with a prolonged mystery school of some sort.
Mm hmm.
That, in my opinion, clearly has some deep physics knowledge that they're implementing there and trying to preserve there.
So, again, someone like Casey picking up on it doesn't surprise me at all.
Not at all.
Well, it's funny because there's a crisscross there with the T.T. Brown stuff you were talking about in terms of time travel.
And what Casey says, because they come to him and they say, well, are there predictions in the Great Pyramid?
And he said, Yeah.
And they said, well, how can you read them?
And he said, well, in the way that the stone is developed in the curves and the angles and all the rest.
And they said, well, how specific can predictions like that be?
And he says, well, they identify individuals down to the date that they're born, the family that they come from, and the street that they grew up on.
That's pretty accurate.
Yeah.
If, again, if you're dealing with a physics of time as a harmonic, then that would make sense.
So, in other words, what I'm suggesting is, yeah, the pyramid.
As prophecy people are correct, but their way of reading it is all wrong.
I, yeah, um, because it's it's it's it is the men measures and dimensions and so on of the structure, but they're not referring so much to you or me, but to the fact that this specific type of harmonic will arise inevitably as a result of this system.
That's what they're saying.
So, to put it differently, Isaac Newton, that I talk about again in the book, had this idea, like many people of his era did, that the Great Pyramid was a model not only of this world, but of the universe.
Interesting.
Yeah, you know, this is not a new idea.
The evangelicals didn't dream this up overnight, they're not capable of dreaming up something as sophisticated.
But anyway, I betray a point of view there.
But anyway, what I think Casey's getting at is this idea that if you make a miniature dimensional analog of the fundamental constants and structures of the universe, and believe me, when you start digging into the Great Pyramid, these things will start popping out all over the place.
Mm hmm.
You know, the fact that the pyramid is constructed on a fractional approximation of the constant pi, 22 divided by seven.
The Great Pyramid does everything in fractions, which, again, a pipe organist is right at home with those.
But once you start thinking of the pyramid this way, then the prophecy aspect is not saying, well, at such and such a time, Mr. and Mrs. So and so are going to have a son named Daniel List at this precise address, at this precise location, and he's going to go on to do podcasts and call himself Dark Turnalist.
No, it's not saying that.
What it is saying is that the likelihood of this type of individual or this type of harmonic spills out from this system of harmonics almost as a guarantee.
And that it doesn't even need to spill out from that specific set of parents.
That's the key.
That's the key.
That's why that grandfather paradox is avoided.
Explain that one a little like, bring in the parent part because that's interesting to me.
Okay.
If we approach everything materialistically, then you are nothing but the genetic product of your parents, and everything about you as an individual is just the chemistry of your genetics.
Mm hmm.
Okay, but that's not true.
You are much more than the product of just your parents' genetics.
So, in other words, you as an individual might arise from a completely different set of genetic circumstances because you are a harmonic of certain fundamentals, in this case, your parents.
But you're also a harmonic of all of your other genetic ancestors.
And in fact, you may be a much better harmonic of some of your distant ancestors than you are of your parents.
Interesting.
And that's where I think all of the fascination with reincarnation comes from because it's accurate in terms of decoding that you have something in common with some distant ancestor of yours, but it's not a genetic memory as much as it is a harmonic.
It's a wave form that's being reflected and conducted down through time.
So, you are never going to be a copy of or a reincarnation in the standard sense of a previous individual because you are you and you are unique.
But you can be a harmonic of that individual.
You can be so much like them that you might almost be a doppelganger.
Yeah.
And this is a very different way of looking at things, folks.
But I think it's one that's more consistent with physics reality.
It's more consistent with what we know of information.
It's more consistent with what we think of as individual persons in the metaphysical sense and so on and so forth.
Mm hmm.
Um, so yeah, I view time and these types of phenomena as harmonics, and this means that an individual, as a component of a set that comprises all of the components of an event, need not have that precise individual in order for that event to take place.
Self Referential Capstone00:06:23
Follow me, interesting, yes.
Oh, yeah, ho, ho, yeah, there we go.
I keep saying it to people.
Start using sets as your mathematical modeling of things, and you'll get a lot farther than you will with delta t functions and all this crap that Einstein.
This is opening up a whole different.
It opens up a whole Pandora's box.
That's cosmic consciousness for you.
That's cosmic consciousness.
Yeah.
Right, right.
I want to go like.
Fantastical here for a minute.
Since you've taken us over the rainbow, we've, yeah, we're done with the ordinary now, folks.
Pour yourself three fingers of your favorite Greek.
We're getting into the good stuff now.
These initiates have left this behind.
Uh huh.
Initiates, and we're talking mystery school initiates.
Yeah, somebody.
Yeah.
So they've left it behind.
One of the things that's associated with what they left behind, and this is another Casey piece, it's the Hall of Records.
The Hall of Records, which is accessed in Casey's readings through the right paw of the Sphinx, but actually talks about a pyramid underground between the Sphinx and the river, and that it will be opened.
And That inside there, there are details of the construction of the two eye stone.
So, could there be, let's say, a relationship between, you know, since we're talking about the Great Pyramid, which he has at 10,500 BC, they set up this other pyramid.
Could this Great Pyramid be the activator of this two eye stone and the second hall of records there?
Between the Sphinx and the river?
Yeah.
If I'm understanding the question correctly, my answer would have to be yes for several reasons.
Because in Casey's reading, there is, as you say, there's another pyramid that's somewhere underground.
Yes.
Now, it's important to point out that that pyramid need not be.
Of the same scale or size as the Great Pyramid.
Right.
Why?
Well, if you look at the Great Pyramid, the capstone, or the Benben, as the Egyptians called it, by the way, Ben is simply their word for pyramid or mountain.
So, again, you have the same sort of etymological concept going on in Egypt as you do in Mesopotamia, that the word mountain can also mean a pyramid.
Okay?
So, the capstone of the Great Pyramid, as we know, is missing.
Right.
Now, if you read the epic of Ninurta, what do you discover?
Well, if you're reading it like Sitchin, that capstone was literally thrown off of the structure and destroyed.
And if I'm not mistaken, part of it was buried.
So again, Casey's not coming up with stuff at variance with the actual text.
Right.
Yeah.
Fascinating.
Now, on top of that, the Ben Ben or the cap of the Great Pyramid is nothing but a scale model of the whole pyramid.
Again, it's another one of those redundant feedback loops that the structure has.
It's a self referential structure.
So the dimensions of the Ben Ben or the capstone of the Great Pyramid are going to have the same sort of Internal harmonic relationships to each other as the whole pyramid.
The only thing about the capstone that we don't know and that I strongly suspect is true is that the capstone was probably not a solid object, but probably reproduced in miniature all of the internal chambers and components of the structure itself.
Interesting.
Because that's the way the structure, if you look at it, Surprises you over and over and over again.
So I think the actual capstone of the Great Pyramid has these little internal parts of it.
Now, what does all of this mean?
I think, again, Casey's right.
Because if you look at the Great Pyramid, what is it?
It is a hall of records, it is a dimensional analog to all of the significant physical features of local space and time.
So that makes it a hall of records.
That makes it a tower that reaches unto heaven, like in the Tower of Babel story.
That means it is something powerful enough to give its possessors the ability to do whatsoever they imagine to do.
And on and on we could go.
Wow.
So, yeah, I'm finally coming out and saying what I've suspected all along.
That dang thing is your Tower of Babel.
That dang thing is your hall of records.
That dang thing is, along with its.
Sister pyramid is one of the two pillars of Yakin and Boaz that are supposedly set at the edge of the land of Egypt and the plains of Shinar.
Exactly.
On and on we can go.
Cartouche Spelling Mystery00:08:00
Yeah, I think all of these things are distant echoes or memories.
All of these traditions are distant echoes and memories of whatever it was that happened at that region of the world in regard to that structure and those structures.
Yeah, absolutely.
Incredible.
Not dealing with myth here, folks.
Yeah.
It's an actual historical legend.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Anakin Skywalker, yes, Blown Up Planet, yes, Krypton, Death Star, Krypton, Krypton.
You mentioned this, there's a weird thing there with Superman.
Um, and that is interesting too because you have that suddenly being run through the culture.
Hey, guess what?
Yeah, yeah, I think somebody knows all this.
Yeah, yeah, I really do.
And and you mentioned the British, you know, one of the things I point out in this book again.
And I'm so tired of talking about it, but it's this really creepy guy by the name of Colonel Howard Vice, V Y S E.
Yes.
You know, this British guy that supposedly, according to Egyptology, cinched the argument that this pile of rock is built by Khufu and built as a tomb for the guy.
Guess what, folks?
Khufu never, ever occupied the structure.
Yeah, right.
There's nothing in there that says it's a funerary temple.
Nothing whatsoever.
I mean, come on.
Historical fallacy of them all.
Oh, it's awful.
So here's Colonel Weiss down in Egypt, and he supposedly discovers the cartouche of Khufu's name in one of the relieving chambers.
Above the king's chamber, that he's blasted his way into and discovered the king's chain, these relieving chambers, and he discovers a cartouche of Khufu supposedly left by the construction gangs that actually built the pyramid.
Okay?
And Daniel, God bless him again.
Zechariah Sitchin was the one that was the first out of the gate that smelled a rat on that one.
Because Sitchin said that, correctly, that the hieroglyphics in these relieving chambers are so poorly and amateurishly executed that no Egyptian worth his salt or radishes, onions, and garlic would ever have painted such monstrosities.
It's a historical hoax.
It's a historical hoax.
Absolutely.
Well,.
It turns out that Alan Alford agreed with Sitchin that Weiss had hoaxed it, and Alford searched and searched and searched for Weiss's private notebooks, which at that time had not been located.
This is the part of the story that's new.
In fact, it's within the last six years that Weiss has finally been found out, caught out.
And hung out to dry by a researcher in the alternative community by the name of Scott Creighton, a British man, Scottish man.
Yeah.
Creighton and his wife actually found Colonel Weiss's original private notes.
Okay.
And of course, Egyptology is ignoring this.
I mean, they're ignoring it more than the propotamian media are ignoring Hunter Biden and the lab.
There is not a word of this.
That's crazy.
It is crazy.
But he found the original private notebooks of Colonel Weiss.
And in the notebooks, he, Vice himself, draws the cartouche of Khufu.
Oh.
Okay.
And the way the cartouche in the Great Pyramid appears is one part of the cartouche consists, a cartouche is an oval with hieroglyphs inside.
That's what a cartouche is, folks.
One of the.
A royal insignia.
It's a royal insignia, right.
It's like a signet ring.
And one part of the.
Cartouche for the cook part of Khufu consists of a circle with three horizontal lines in it, and then you've got the rest of his name in the cartouche.
And there are three drawings of this in his Vice's private notes, with that initial part appearing in three different ways, and Vice's handwritten notes out to the side.
In King's Chamber, you know, and then one of them has a little kind of check mark next to it.
Now, here's what the story is, folks, in case this is not clear to you.
When Weiss allegedly made his discovery of the cartouche of Khufu in a relieving chamber, which he also discovered, and incidentally, all of the he dynamites his way into these relieving chambers.
Oh my God.
And lo and behold, he just so happens to have picked a wall to dynamite into that did not have any of these hieroglyphics painted on it.
Are we getting the picture?
In the time that Weiss made his discovery, there was only one spelling of the name Khufu.
That was known.
And it had that initial symbol for the K part of Khufu as simply an empty circle.
When Sitchin examined the drawing in the British Museum, that circle contained a smudge, which was a dot.
And the circle with a dot in it is the symbol for Ra.
It's also the symbol that the Bavarian Illuminati used.
Interesting.
Interesting.
And Sitchin, of course, concluded, well, no Egyptian would have ever made a mistake that obvious.
So he concluded on that basis that Weiss had simply hoaxed it.
Fascinating.
But it turns out that between the original discovery of the cartouche and the cartouche that's there now, that someone brought to Colonel Weiss's attention hey, we found another spelling of Khufu.
Huh.
And that spelling has a circle with three horizontal lines in it.
So, what you see happening in Weiss's notebook is he's deliberating which one to use.
Which one to use.
Because they still haven't got it through their heads that there's more than one spelling of the same name.
Freemasonry and Secret Societies00:09:19
Wow.
So, in other words, he actually paints the correct spelling, finally.
And incidentally, it's in a slightly different tint of paint.
He actually paints the correct spelling, but the original one was correct too.
Uh huh.
It's the fact that he's recording his doubt in his private notes.
That's the telling.
That's the tell.
That blows the whole story.
That boils the whole story.
Sorry, Zahi.
This is not.
Hawass is so busy, you know, exactly trying to find the Hall of Records, really, that he has to get rid of.
By his own reckoning, he's saying it shouldn't exist anyway.
That's right.
I mean, only Egyptology could be this stupid.
Well, don't you know National Geographic says he's the new Indiana Jones, baby?
Oh, yes, yeah.
Well, you know, here's the problem, Daniel, because it's very clear to me, and Alan Alford is the one that raises the possibility.
Why is it that a colonel in the British military who returns to Great Britain with a promotion after all of this?
To Brigadier General, why is it that the British military is clearly connected with something designed to make the pyramid an Egyptian monument?
Right.
And you know what I think the answer is?
What?
Napoleon.
How does that work?
Napoleon's expedition, you'll remember, goes to Egypt.
I cannot find.
Any of those French experts that he took with him, other than Champollion, you know, the Rosetta Stone, I can't find anywhere where the French scholars are saying this is an Egyptian product.
Interesting.
You know, the etchings that the French are doing there are very strange.
And for that matter, why does Napoleon Bonaparte take it into his?
You know, cold calculating noggin.
Hey, let's go invade Egypt and we can use that as a springboard to go invade British India.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Napoleon?
No, no, no.
And when you get down to the fact that it was Bishop de Talleyrand, you know, another quintessential swamp creature, you know, he's vying for that title with Roy Cohn.
But.
But Bishop de Talleyrand, Maurice de Talleyrand, the French foreign minister, is really the one that's cooking up this expedition.
What does de Talleyrand want?
What's his motivation?
What's his motivation other than to get Napoleon out of France?
There's a lot of weird stories about that expedition, also.
Yeah, total.
I mean, the fellow that finds the Rosetta Stone is Lieutenant Hautepool.
Now, that family name should ring a bell for Rennes-le-Chateau fans out there.
Because the Haute Poule family is prominent front and center in that whole mess around Pere Sonnier down in Rennes-le-Chateau in the 19th century.
And then, of course, he runs his butt up to Saint-Sulpice to Paris, which is another one of those weird little connections that keeps popping up in the story of, well, This Lieutenant Oatpool, it's an ancestor of the Oatpool family involved in that mess that actually supposedly trips over the Rosetta Stone and finds it.
Hey, look at this.
Yeah, hey, look at this.
Now, you know, Daniel, I'm not above thinking that, no, this is a story concocted and cooked up by the post expeditionary period.
I think there's a strong possibility that they found the stone in southern France and hauled it to Egypt to find it.
You think they already had it?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, I do.
I do.
You think that there's a, like, in that story, there's a face off between French secret societies and British secret societies?
Well, absolutely.
Why?
Oh, yes.
I'll tell you why.
It's very easy.
Yes.
If you look at continental versus British Freemasonry, the continental Freemasonry of that time is absolutely shot through, permeated with the remains of the Bavarian Illuminati.
You cannot go anywhere in Freemasonry on the continent of Europe and not bump into somebody.
With some connection to that group of people.
Interesting.
And if you know the history of, pardon me, French Freemasonry prior to the revolution, and up to that point that the Duc d'Orléans ceases to be a contender after the revolution occurs, that whole nest of Jacobins that are surrounding Robespierre and Danton and People like this.
That whole Jacobinist nest actually absolutely has direct ties to Adam Weishaupt and the Bavarian Illuminati.
Absolutely.
This was brought out by some of the Roman Catholic scholars of that period that dug into this, Abbe Baruel being probably the most famous of them.
So, yeah, if you look at British Freemasonry, on the other hand, you're dealing with.
Basically, Blue Lodge Masonry, the first three degrees.
And even there, the claims of the Mother Lodge of Great Britain and those of the original old charges in Scottish Freemasonry are very, very different.
But they are of a totally different kind of thing than what Adam Weishaupt and his crew are up to.
So, is there a conflict of some sort going on behind the scenes?
My guess is absolutely.
Absolutely.
Interesting.
This really makes a lot of sense.
Yeah, well, you have to remember George Washington, when he was given a copy of the Bavarian government's publication, you know, when the Bavarian government shut the Illuminati down, they seized all of Adam Weishaupt's papers and published them.
Wow.
And the Bavarian government sent these papers to all the crowned heads of Europe.
And at that time, America had won its independence.
So George gets a copy.
Right.
And Washington, you know, he was a Freemason.
Washington was appalled at what had been going on in the Continental Lodges being used as a secret society to hide another secret society inside of it.
Wow.
He was totally appalled.
Yeah.
So, yeah, I definitely think there's something going on.
And then squatting in the middle of all this is Bishop de Talleyrand, the French foreign minister.
Amazing.
Because, you know, here's a former Roman Catholic bishop who ends up as foreign minister of France.
No one has ever been able to prove that this man had any sort of lodge connection.
But I strongly suspect it.
He's the foreign minister for the final days of Louis XVI.
He's foreign minister under the Republic.
He's foreign minister under the Directorate.
He's foreign minister under Napoleon.
And then he comes back as foreign minister for the Bourbon Restoration.
Now, wow.
That's some guy with some juice.
I know.
How many nine lives has he got?
Exactly.
You know, there's something.
And on top of this, let's.
Lest we forget, during a certain period of the revolution, de Tollyron flees France and comes to this country.
Oh, okay, stick that in your Louisiana purchase.
Oh my god, what was he doing over here?
Hobnomic with Ben and Alex and Tom and the guys.
Yeah, Ben was fresh from the Hellfire Club, and it was, yeah, Ben was fresh.
Hellfire Club Factions00:02:00
Back from the Hellfire Club, which is another little chapter in this saga.
Explain that one.
Listen, I have a book on that whole Hellfire Club.
Which book is that?
It's called The Hellfire Clubs, and I can't see the author's name.
Lord is the last name of the author.
Lord?
Yeah.
I'm going to check that out.
I've been really curious about that.
And you know, you talking about this.
Vice character, and then thinking about Napoleon, it seems like, you know, since Egypt would be the heart of the Masonic guild, as it were, that you are dealing with two secret societies clashing around.
Laying claim to something.
Yeah, there's in the old charges in British Masonry, these go back some.
Masonic scholars themselves think that some of these charges go back to about the 14th or even the 13th century, so they're very old.
But part of the charges, I think it's for the master mason degree, some of these charges have as the oath that the initiate is taking to, and I mentioned this in one of the Giza De Star original books, the third one, I think.
To turn the stream and to recover the lost science and wisdom.
And incidentally, this was a charge that George Washington himself took when he was initiated.
So, you know, that's a way of saying that he was initiated with the old charges.
Controlling the Narrative00:15:11
Interesting.
That this was part of his Masonic outlook.
So, yeah, I think you're dealing with.
Yeah, it's really very, very profound when you stop and think about it.
So, yeah, I'm with you.
I think you could be dealing with two different factions within masonry trying to gain, number one, gain control of the site, number two, recover whatever knowledge they could from it, and number three, control the narrative.
Right.
Yeah.
And vice, you know, if ever there was an operation that was clearly all about narrative, It's trying to pin that structure to the Pharaoh Krufu.
Now, what the motivation is, I don't know, but I suspect that the motivation is to keep people from looking too closely at the idea that you are dealing with an extraordinarily sophisticated and powerful science.
Yes.
Because if you can recover that, you know, and the other thing that makes me think this, Daniel, is it's very clear if you study long enough, it's very clear that this country has had some sort of.
Secretive interest in Giza and particularly in that structure, and to a lesser extent, the other big pyramid there.
Oh, yes.
And it's very clear that the Soviet Union certainly did.
Right.
Didn't they make their own version?
Yeah, they made their own versions of pyramids and conducted all this secret research for about a decade inside the Soviet Union.
Prussia had an interest.
In the Great Pyramid.
This is another part of the story that doesn't get talked about very much, but there was a Prussian expedition just a little bit before and prior to that of Colonel Weiss.
And oddly enough, the leader of that expedition, Lepsius was his name, carved in the actual entrance of the Great Pyramid a square to Friedrich Wilhelm IV in Egyptian hieroglyphics, in accurate Egyptian hieroglyphics.
Naming Friedrich Wilhelm IV one of the sons of Ra.
Oh, wow.
Now, for those of you mystery school people out there that like to study these types of things, to say that someone is a son of Ra is also a way of saying that they're a son of Hor.
Shemsu Hor, the sons of Hor.
And there are a group of people out there that think that the Shemsu Hor, the sons of Horus, are.
An actual group of people that still exist.
Fast.
So, yeah, on and on we could go.
You know, King of Prussia.
That is so.
It's weird.
Yeah.
It's just downright weird.
And that they would do this, an actual carving on the actual entrance of the Great Pyramid.
Wow.
You know, that's very bizarre.
And.
You know, that's, in a certain sense, it's better taste than Colonel Weiss scribbling his painted hieroglyphics.
But in another sense, you know, you're defacing a site like that.
Wow.
You know, what's the real purpose of this?
Why are you putting a king's name on this structure and then identifying it with Ra?
Wow.
Yeah.
I think that says a lot.
The.
Well, what's interesting too is, are we in a weird place with Giza and the Sphinx and the pyramid?
Because you've got people like Shock, Graham Hancock, other people who've proved the weather watering on the Sphinx goes back to a time when there were rains there, and that's 10,000 BC.
So the discovery of Gobekli Tepe, that's 12,000 years.
I mean, now we know, yeah, this stuff goes way back.
So isn't it a weird twilight that we're in with the official National Geographic Egyptological version?
Of Egypt and the Great Pyramid, it's just, it's outdated and it's not sharing this greater realization, which I'm sure they know the age.
I don't know if they know the age, but I'm fairly certain that they know that their narrative is not correct.
Right.
That they know that the structure, meaning the Great Pyramid at least, is older than dynastic Egypt.
The geological evidence that shock.
Examined with the Sphinx, again, it's too overwhelming and it's too conclusive that you can ignore it.
Absolutely.
And add to that something that has been known since the French expedition under Bonaparte.
When the French discovered the Sphinx, it was covered in sand with the exception of the head.
The French excavated the compound around the Sphinx.
They excavated that whole area.
And it has been known since then.
And the French were the ones to point it out that, you know, this is water erosion.
This is old.
Right.
This was known in Napoleon's time.
Wow.
And the other thing the French realized was that the head, the head that's currently on the structure, that looks To me, like an African queen.
I mean, it's very hard to ignore her black features.
It's very hard to ignore the fact that you're looking at a female, I think.
You know, I think you're looking at an African queen.
So, when did she come along?
And who is she?
You know?
Right.
Yeah.
But anyway, that head is not proportional to the body, it's too small.
Interesting.
So, in other words, somebody came along, carved her head on something that was already there.
So, what was there before?
And what was the purpose of the re carving?
Is this another case of cultural appropriation, like Khufu appropriating the Great Pyramid?
You know, why all of this taking place?
Yeah.
And I think, again, it's a struggle not only for control of the compound, just like we see in Sitchin's texts.
But it's also a struggle for control of the narrative.
Wow.
Now, Howard Weiss' narrative just collapsed in the last six years.
So I suspect it's going to be maybe another four to six decades before the whole Egyptological narrative really finally collapses in the popular consciousness.
In the alternative field that you and I inhabit, it's dead and gone.
It's not even on our radar anymore.
Right.
Absolutely.
And it shouldn't be.
That is incredible.
But yeah, it is incredible.
And it means that there is some overriding motivating reason for countries like Great Britain or France or Prussia or the United States or the Soviet Union to be spending all this time and energy and money investigating that compound and investigating pyramids.
And I guarantee you, it has nothing whatsoever to do with burying pharaohs.
No.
Well, it's interesting.
And, you know, this thing about the Sphinx is fascinating because I did an episode recently called Pawgate.
And I went into Augustus Lee Plongeon.
Oh, boy.
Yeah.
And all of his unusual findings.
One of the weirdest things that he found on the top of the Chalk Mool Temple was the image of a Sphinx.
Yes.
Now, you never find images of Sphinx associated with the Sphinx.
Mexico and the Mayans and all that.
But there it was.
And the artifact disappeared in 1889.
The entire statue is just gone.
Oh, isn't that weird?
Yeah.
But they have pictures of it because he was one of the earliest photographers.
Oh, I've seen the pictures.
Yeah.
Yeah, I know what you're talking about.
I've seen the pictures.
Well, again, it's interesting that Le Plongeon is French, obviously, and that his whole take on.
You know, the culture of Mexico is very, very different than the standard narrative.
Oh, yeah.
In fact, I think, if I'm not mistaken, I think it was he that found the mica sheathing in the chambers underneath the pyramids at Teodocan.
Yes.
I didn't know quite, you know, again, he's, I think he's thinking probably in terms of some sort of cultural connection to Egypt and some sort of machine purpose.
For the structure.
Yeah, it's not surprising to me this, Le Tron Jean.
And it's interesting that the year in which he does this, 1888, I think, is the year, that this is the same year that the Russians are trying to get to Constantinople and to get control of the Bosphorus in their own hands and to break out of their, you know, their, and so on, water.
It's very, very interesting that all this is going on at the same time.
Right.
Aha.
There's a game afoot.
Yeah.
We're not privy to it.
Exactly.
It's the archaeological wars going on in the background.
Yeah.
And you've identified this for years.
The last thing I'll say about Lee Plongeon is his story about Queen Mu is that she brings the whole Osiris myth to Egypt.
Oh, I can believe that.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's coming from somewhere.
And if you look at the Great Pyramid once again, this is an unusual thing about all of this.
Because it's very clear that if this is not the product of Egypt, then it has nothing to do with the technology and the science behind it, or even the culture and religion behind it, have nothing to do with the Osirian myth.
Mm hmm.
That this is an overlay grafted onto Egyptian culture, but much more importantly, because of that, grafted onto or overlaid the pyramidal structures themselves.
And that is a bit of, again, narrative misdirection and control that has nothing to do with the actual structures, and in particular, has nothing to do with the structure of the Great Pyramid.
Right.
Well, the Assyrian myth, I have to wonder, you know, just number one, it's a bizarre myth.
It is, yeah.
I mean, just no, in any way you slice it, it's just bizarre.
Where does it come from?
Who invents such a wild, woolly myth?
I mean, it has obvious, obvious overtones to Christianity.
Yes.
So, how do you get this weird thing coming out of nowhere?
If anything, you know, let's go back to the reincarnation culture because I think there is a culture.
Mm hmm.
Abroad in the world at the time of Christ, that is, we might call it broadly reincarnational.
It's a very common idea all the way from China to Rome.
Right.
You know, it's not, it's not, and then in the middle of this in Egypt, you have something that doesn't fit into any of the pegs.
It's like Set tricks Osiris into a coffin, you know, and chops off, chops his penis off, you know, and it's the original.
Feminist critique of patriarchy.
And then along comes ISIS, and she's not talking about it.
I mean, the whole thing is just bizarre.
Right.
And Horace is like, hey, I'm taking over.
I'm taking over now.
You know, the Al Hag of Egypt.
But yeah, it's just bizarre.
Yeah.
I don't think anybody has a really satisfactory explanation.
Who did this?
Excellent point.
We kind of take that one for granted.
The last character I want to bring into your great pyramid mystery is Hermes.
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
So going back to the Casey part, he has Hermes laying out the 10,500 BC version of the pyramid.
Right, uh, so you know, he's laying it out, he's setting up the structure, and he found with this archaeology where to do it, right?
Um, Hermes, Hermes, thrice great Hermes, all these different uh allusions we have the Hermes, the golden tablets of Hermes, the emerald tablets.
Um, what are we getting in Hermes?
What is the character there?
What's the message, and how does that relate to okay?
I didn't expect that question at all, but it's a very good question.
Hermes and Tehuda Lore00:10:03
In my opinion, Hermes represents the Hellenization of the Egyptian god Tehuda, who's usually mispronounced Thoth.
Yes.
I remember when you showed me the actual pronunciation, I was blown away.
Well, it's T H O T H.
But what people forget is Egyptian is very much like Hebrew.
You have to kind of fill in the vowels.
So Tehuda.
Tehuda, right.
Or Tehuda.
Tehuda.
Either one is acceptable.
But.
I think Hermes is kind of a Hellenization of the Egyptian god Dehuda, who is the Egyptian god of wisdom, science, you know, all of this stuff.
And I'm one of those that thinks that behind the ancient gods at some point there was probably a historical figure on whom the personage or the character, you know, be it Greek or Vedic or whatever, is based.
And in this case, in Egypt, I think Tahut is one of these characters that had a sufficient stature or presence to be kind of memorialized.
Why?
Well, one of the things in Egyptian lore that is the tie to Hermes is that Tahut is the one that inscribes all of his wisdom on the tablet.
And in some cases, it's made very clear that this is the pyramid.
Tehuda is also the one, along with Hermes, along with Enoch.
You know, you're dealing, I think, with basically the same figure, remembered by different names in different cultures.
Oh, yeah.
That decides to inscribe all of mankind's knowledge on two pillars in prevision of the flood.
Well, you know, what are the two pyramids at Giza?
They're pillars.
So, I think there's something to Casey's connection of Hermes to the structure because, again, this is coming out of little points of lore that I think have been there for quite a while.
The interesting thing about Hermes, I find the interesting thing about Hermes, is that in his Greek incarnation, this Tehuda character is the one that is teaching.
The old Egyptian religion, in terms of Greco Roman philosophical concepts that people of that era would grasp.
So I think, you know, the way I've covered Hermes in my books is I've pointed out that if you read the Hermetica itself, you'll discover very close analogues to my idea of the topological metaphor of the medium,
that you will find the idea of the Egyptian mot or The force in Star Wars is where Lucas is getting that conception from, it's from Egypt once again.
This idea of an underlying materia prima from which everything is made, and everything falls out of this materia prima by a process of differentiation within that no thing.
This is all coming out of this Hellenization of the Hermetica.
Now, what that means, in my opinion, Like Casey, that means that the character of Hermes and what he's teaching is older than the Hellenization itself.
And that what we're really getting then in this Egyptian religion is we're getting something that's very old that has been distilled and transmitted in a form that people can latch on to.
All right.
If you read the Hermetica, I've spent an enormous amount of time with the Hermetic writings in my own books because the cosmology in the Hermetic is extraordinarily sophisticated.
There's a reason the church fathers called Hermes the thrice great Hermes, the triply great Hermes, because they viewed him and his teaching as being extraordinarily and phenomenally close to the Christian doctrine of the Trinity.
And it is.
Isn't that interesting?
Yeah.
It is.
So, you have this whole weird Hermes veneration during the patristic period that otherwise makes no sense.
So, I think there's originally a real Hermes character, and I think Casey's, again, onto something that this might be a character that has been passed down for a long time.
And we need to remember one final thing, and I bring this out.
I think it's in my book, Financial Vipers of Venice.
It may be another one of them.
But I point out that during the ancient times, you know, Isaac Kosaban came along in the 17th century and said, no, Hermes Trismegistus cannot possibly be this proto Moses character from thousands of years ago because he's using Greek terms that were not known or in popular parlance until the second century.
So, the patristic and medieval idea about Hermes or Tehuda was actually overturned by an early Enlightenment British scholar by the name of Isaac Cossaban.
But now, recently, an Oxford scholar by the name of, I think, Gareth Howden, if I remember the name correctly, I've got his book somewhere over there, came along and pointed out something very obvious that modern scholars, you know, it's another one of these cases where modern scholarship can't see the forest for the trees.
Mm hmm.
And that is that in ancient times, it was considered courteous and respectful to attribute your drawing out of implications of another author to that author.
So, in other words, if I'm sitting down and drawing out or extrapolating all sorts of logical entailments of Plato's theory of the ideas, And I'm writing in ancient times.
I would attribute that to Plato.
Oh, right.
Because he's the one that thought of the idea.
So, in other words, you have all of these things ascribed to Hermes.
Well, the reason they're being ascribed to Hermes is that the ancients are thinking this is part of his doctrine because these are the logical entailments of his doctrine.
So, they're not trying to commit forgery, they're not trying to.
Uh, commit a misdirection or anything of the sort.
This is just the way they thought.
Why I footnote, you know, I'm doing basically the same thing when I write or when any academic writes.
You're attributing the source of your observation to that source, right?
So, you know, it shows how influential Hermes is, it shows how influential that figure, whoever he was, was, and why that.
That influence persisted for thousands of years.
Right.
That's an extraordinary thing.
Joseph, what makes him thrice great?
Well, I think what makes him thrice great is this cosmology.
Because what you're really dealing with when you read the Hermetica carefully is someone that's telling you forget, cast all of your binary dualistic thinking aside.
The universe is not constructed from twos.
It's constructed from threes.
It starts as a one, then goes to three, and then from that you get two.
So it's one, three, two, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, not one, two, three.
Wow.
And again, over and over, you look at Egypt, you look at Neoplatonism, and all of these philosophical schools associated with Egypt.
This is what you see over and over and over and over again.
It is amazing.
And when you stop and think about it, it's the only way that a cosmology of nothing can work.
Because when you partition a nothing, you get a three, not a two.
You have to stop and think about that very carefully.
Yes.
You've always got that common surface that distinguishes the two regions.
And that common surface is also a no thing.
So, you know, it's no wonder the Christian church fathers latched onto him because he's essentially saying the same thing in his very basic outlines, essentially saying the very same thing.
Young Elected Abbots00:03:36
So they latch onto this.
There's a reason that Cosimo de' Medici is paying people to find the original text of the Hermetica and bring it to Florence.
And once he gets his hands on it, Every other translation project he's sponsoring is put on the back burner.
That's the one that takes priority.
And once it's published, what happens?
The Renaissance.
Yes.
Oh, wow.
It's the Hermetica, the publication of the Hermetica is directly responsible.
Amazing.
Amazing.
Yeah.
Amazing.
It's fascinating, too, that Mathers later, with Golden Dawn, he's going to draw completely.
Yes.
On that.
Yes.
And, you know, it's interesting because he has a connection with this steganography book that Johannes Trithemius leaves behind.
One of the odd details, there's a lot of odd details in Mather's biography, but Trithemius is an abbot at 21 years old in Germany.
Is that unusual?
Very, very.
Yeah.
An abbot within an abbacy has the same authority as a bishop.
In other words, you will often see abbots carrying a crozier like a bishop does, and you'll often see them wearing a mitre like a bishop does.
Wow.
In canon law, that's quite true, particularly in the Western church.
An abbot, or an abbess for that matter, has the same authority as a bishop.
It's very unusual, therefore, to find someone that young in that kind of a position.
It would be like saying, you know, he was bishop by the time he was 18.
This is the strange part of that story.
And I knew you'd be able to clear it up because you know all about those histories.
And I'd keep looking at that age and think, 21.
That's very young.
Yeah.
Even for that time, it's very young.
Typically, particularly in the Roman church, particularly at that time, typically you're going to want someone.
In an abbacy or the episcopate by the mid 30s at the earliest.
And then they're not expected to live that long, even back then.
It's very, very odd.
So, to get into that position, most of the time, and I don't know anything about the particular abbacy that he was in, but most of those monasteries had their own chapter houses and elected.
Their abbot, just like a bishop is elected by usually by the diocese.
Oh, right.
Yeah.
You know, in the Western Church, confirmed by the Pope.
So he would have had to have been popular if he was elected in that sort of chapter house.
He would have had to have been popular.
He would have had to have a reputation for learning, for piety, you know, all of these things in order to get that kind of an election.
Popularizing Scholarly Imagination00:08:05
Interesting.
Yeah, it's a rather stiff set of requirements, but it can vary.
I'm not saying that that's necessarily the case.
Like I say, I don't know what order he was in, what his chapter house was, but that's the typical pattern.
I just wondered if they knew who he was.
Good question.
Yeah.
Good question.
Is he magically endowed and therefore, you know, this guy's got to be.
If he exhibited any sort of miracles or anything like that, that's always a good candidate.
Oh, yeah, put him in there.
I think it's interesting because when you mentioned the Hermetica there, I instantly went to that because I was thinking about Mathers and his great translation abilities and translating it and getting that out for the 19th century.
What's interesting is Mathers, that'll bring in.
Through the Trithemius steganography, he's going to find those scrolls just hanging out in an antique shop and the whole Golden Dawn, Crowley and all the rest of it.
You're dealing, I think, in the 19th century with Mathers, Alephus Levy, you know, people like this, even to a certain extent, Schwaler Golubich much later.
You're dealing with kind of a very peculiar occult revival in the 19th century.
Yes.
And I think to a certain extent, I think it's.
It's being deliberately, how to put it, I don't want to say orchestrated.
I'm looking for a different word.
It's being deliberately supported to get these things, because earlier attempts to get things like this into the popular imagination had not been successful.
One of the earliest attempts being the Rosicrucian business.
Oh, yes.
And, you know, The Elizabethan poets and so on.
Bacon.
I think in the 19th century, you're dealing yet again with another attempt to get this into the popular imagination.
I think it's much more successful because people like Mathers, Alephus Levy, and so on are able to give it a kind of pleasing ritual.
To draw people to that system of doctrine.
Whereas with the Rosicrucians, you're never really dealing with an identifiable body or ritual or set of customs.
Masonry, of course, has its, but it's so tired and shop worn by that period in the 19th century and associated with the Illuminati and all that revolutionary activity.
This is no longer as attractive to people as it once was.
So you got to do something new.
Right.
It's this archaic thing.
And then here comes this revival.
And, you know, it has, like you said, somebody supporting it because Mathers is.
Strolling around and he finds a story.
Mathers is, yeah, as you say, Mathers is not the guy that's going to be doing this all on his own.
He's just not that kind of guy.
And, you know, the other thing is he's not a dumb man by any stretch of the imagination.
So, you know, you're dealing with something, weight, another one.
You know, you're dealing with all these people in England that are, you know, heavy occultists, but they are also people of some substance and people of some intellect.
And they are clearly being financially supported from somewhere.
Yeah.
This is not coming from membership dues.
No.
And in some ways, Golden Dawn, you know, in that connection, you could say that they're almost sabotaged.
Well, I think they are.
Mathers, you know, there were storms of controversy that followed Mathers and Wade around, particularly towards the end of their life.
And then.
We both know about all the controversies regarding the Golden Dawn, Israel Red Gardian, people like this.
Oh, yeah.
There is definitely something going on in terms of the history of these hermetic or occult movements in the 19th and 20th century that I don't think has ever been adequately explained in terms of scholarship.
I think James Billington, with his fire in the minds of men, comes as close.
Oh, yeah.
To a scholarly examination of it.
But the problem with his approach is that he's viewing this whole phenomenon, this whole hermetic revival, from purely political and revolutionary eyes.
And therefore, a lot of the important undertow of what's really going on here, which I think is all about cultural transformation, is escaping him.
And the other problem is we are, again, we're West focused.
This is something that's happening at the same time, not just in Western Europe or certain segments of this country.
It's going on across the globe.
There are things going on in India.
There are things going on in China.
Certainly, as we both know, things going on in Russia.
You know, Gurdjieff and Blavatsky and Uspensky and all these people.
Yeah.
There's something going on in the 19th century all over the world.
And it has all the appearance to me of being coordinated.
So the question is can we, looking at in a scholarly fashion, looking at all of these movements and currents, can we possibly find or at least make an educated guess as to who's doing this and why?
Right.
Yeah.
I think it's very possible to do that, but I don't know anyone.
That has sufficient scholarship to be able to do that.
That's the problem.
Does this rediscovery of Egypt and the pyramids and the Sphinx fit into that?
Oh, I think so, yes.
Yeah.
But, you know, the other things that would fit into it are, you know, Le Plojon that you talked about.
Certainly, we don't know enough about ancient civilization or technology even to begin to make a dent.
You know, this is the Great Pyramid is one fly speck on this big, vast tapestry.
You know, and the other problem here, Daniel, is no one has yet, as far as I know, tried to make.
A good scholarly study of all of these mystery schools or whatever you wish to call them on this planet in a comprehensive, under one volume sort of study.
But at the same time, to really do that justice, I think you're going to have to study the off planet anomalies.
In other words, we can't understand this picture unless we're willing to look at.
The extraterrestrial archaeology, so to speak, and look at the moon, look at Mars, look at Iapetus, you know, Pluto, all of this stuff that's out there.
Original Three Books Revealed00:04:46
There's a lot of stuff out there.
Credible.
And I'm in the second book that I'm waiting for, Daniel.
I'm just kind of tossing a wild and woolly thing out there and hoping that people will latch on and understand the significance of it.
That's a Hail Mary.
It's a Hail Mary.
If you've been paying attention and are noticing all the little detailed dots, this will rock your world.
When does the title get revealed?
The title gets revealed, I suspect, in June.
Okay.
It's going to be a hard title to ignore.
I can't wait.
It's not a long book, it's only 150 pages.
It's like the appendix to this one.
Okay.
If you've been paying attention through this one and The Cosmic War and a couple of other books, this is the appendix.
Wow.
This is the segmented, compartmentalized information top secret.
Wow.
Incredible.
Joseph, a phenomenal volume on this.
The Giza Death Stars series was already kind of a foundation of so much research that goes deep.
Into that ancient history, into that cosmic war, the esoteric factors, Tesla's in there, as we discussed.
And this brings it all together and has the new chapters and the new interpretations, and you're letting things out in there that you couldn't put out when the series first appeared.
But just phenomenal, transformative work.
And we look forward to this, the follow up to this, which is coming out in June.
And people can get this, of course, at GizaDeathStar.com.
Yeah, they can get it there.
They can get it from Adventures Unlimited Press.
Amazon is still saying it's not going to be till May.
It is out at Adventures Unlimited Press.
And again, I have to warn people that have the original three books.
About half of this book is simply repeated from those original three books.
It's arranged in a different sequence, in a different order.
So hopefully the argument is clearer.
I'm not vouching that it is, but I've attempted to make the argument clearer.
But there's a lot of new material in this book.
So it's about half and half.
Excellent.
Is Adventures Unlimited Press publishing the new one too?
Yes.
Okay, great.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Uh, I thought it was necessary to let David do this because he was the one that was kind enough to take the risk and publish the original book.
So, you know, absolutely, all fairness, he should have his crack at these two as well.
Incredible, particularly the second one.
I mean, it's off the chart of strangeness, even for his publishing house, and that's saying a lot because that's saying a lot.
If you've seen his catalog.
Amazing.
Yeah.
The last thing I wanted to mention is we should probably do the comprehensive, I mean, comprehensive interview series on the Illuminati.
I think that that's something.
Oh, yeah, definitely.
I would love to do that with you sometime.
Yeah.
They are not, you know, the problem that most people think is either they are overboard with the Illuminati or behind everything and they know nothing about the original group.
Right.
Or they think that the original group is all fantasy and fiction, which it certainly was not.
No way, right?
No way.
It was a group of some very famous people, actually, that were up to a lot of no good.
They were kind of the Klaus Schwabs of the day, folks.
I wouldn't be surprised if he's a member, to be honest.
Yeah, Frank.
He certainly gets the outfits down.
Well, he gets the outfits down, and he's from that.
Part of the world, you know.
So, hey, you know, the Germans, you know, they're sitting there in their dark, dank, dusky forest.
They got to do something.
You know, it's like Pinky in the brain.
What are we going to do today?
Well, we're going to take over the world.
Follow Up in June00:00:44
So, fantastic work on this one.
And we can't wait for the follow up.
Here in June.
Well, I'm sure we'll be talking about that once it's out.
Right here.
I know we will be.
Joseph, just outstanding work on this.
Thank you.
The new book is The Giza Death Star Revisited, available at Adventures Unlimited Press, and everyone can catch up with you at GizaDeathStar.com.
Now, please join us on Friday nights at 8 p.m. for new episodes of the X Steganography series.
Watch the Dark Journalist newsletter closely this week for a very special announcement of a very special interview.