John Warner IV details his family's alleged ties to secret Navy UFO projects, claiming the U.S. engaged in time travel since the 1930s via experiments like the USS Kearsarge retrieval and the film The Final Countdown. He connects these narratives to the Mellon family's "Room" group, Freemasonry, and theories that extraterrestrials neutralized nuclear capabilities by rendering large weapons inoperable while permitting tactical strikes. Warner critiques official disclosure efforts as controlled distractions, arguing true transparency requires grassroots movements to opt out of corrupt systems rather than relying on politicians who suppress indigenous knowledge and ancient ET influences on human history. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, WAV2VEC2_ASR_BASE_960H, sat-12l-sm, script v26.04.01, and large-v3-turbo
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Strange Family Secrets00:02:40
Hello, everyone.
This is Dark Journalist with a special historic interview for you with John W. Warner IV, the son of Catherine Mellon of the Mellon banking family of Pittsburgh, and Senator John Warner III of Virginia, who sadly passed away last year.
John first appeared on the Dark Journalist show with exclusive revelations of his family's involvement in history's deep events and the UFO file.
Today, he'll go even deeper, revealing the Navy's role.
In secret UFO projects and timeline manipulation experiments.
He'll also reveal the false UFO threat promoted by his cousin, former DoD official Christopher Mellon.
Please join us now.
John, it's great to have you back with us.
Now, let's start off with some of these family revelations that you've been discovering, especially the ones that involve the hot zone.
You know, my grandfather, Paul Mellon, was a member of the Mill Reef Club in Antigua.
And this was a place where Ian Fleming and a lot of British elites and royals would hang out.
It was a very exclusive, expensive place.
And he was talking about, yeah, they met somewhere in the Caribbean on a British island.
And I think, I think I know where this is.
You know, and it was interesting.
It was the one place that I was never invited to go.
I don't know.
I was a kid, but I thought that was interesting.
So, your dad had to leave you out of those maybe for your own safety?
I don't know.
My sisters went when they were young, and I didn't get to go, and I don't know why.
Strange, you know, shit that goes on in families, but.
I don't know.
Well, you've already got some of the stuff that you sent me about the hot zone, about this U.S. Navy crane ship, the Kearsarge, and it's pulling up this crystal mass out of the Atlantic Ocean in 1936.
Yeah, that was interesting.
I know Al Bielik is a very controversial character, but when I piece those two stories together, it just kind of with the Eldridge and Rainbow.
And I was like, yes.
Is the U.S. Navy been in the time travel business since the 30s?
Gorbachev and Reagan Symbolism00:05:59
I did watch the Time Tunnel episode last night.
Now, that was weird.
It is.
You're too young to remember that.
I never watched it as a kid, but somebody sent it to me and said, Do you remember the show?
And I said, Yeah, I was an Irwin Allen fan.
Yeah.
And when I watched the first episode, I couldn't believe it.
It lands on a lake bed in the desert, you know, a Learjet, John Lear.
And they go down some secret tunnel to this giant facility under the desert floor.
And I was like, Okay.
It is.
It's amazing.
You know, the tales of Brookhaven Lab and all that stuff.
The whole vibe is like that as well.
The driving along and then the floor of the, you know, desert sand opens up and just swallows them up and they're in this laboratory.
I mean, it is.
Yeah.
If you look at Irwin Allen, obviously, did the original Lost in Space.
But if you look at the pilot episode, it was the military.
A general says, good luck in space, you know, Robinson family.
It's always the military.
Right.
Same thing with his show, The City Beneath the Sea, the underwater submarine one in the 60s.
It was all military.
So, what do we know about Erwin Allen?
Well, I don't know a lot about him other than what I read on the internet.
But obviously, like Gene Roddenberry, I think he might have been read in, you know, somehow given, hey, look at this idea.
Yeah.
Someone who wanted to let out a little bit of, you know, the military truth to kind of remember every 10 years they try to want to prepare the public a little bit.
For disclosure, and that's why I sent you the final countdown one because I think they were excited for Reagan doing it.
Yes, Reagan was inaugurated six months later after the film premiere in '81.
But of course, who was his vice president, right?
Bush, Senor Bush, right?
But we know what Reagan was involved in Star Wars that's Hughes Aircraft Aerospace, the directed energy weapons, satellites.
That's what I've heard, and um.
What else?
You know, he and Gorbachev talking about space invasions and other things.
No question.
It's all very strange how it sort of weirdly connects.
It is interesting also that Gorbachev came out.
You met Gorbachev.
I did.
Amazing.
We just lost him.
Yeah, that's right.
He just passed away.
Incredible.
You know that he gave a speech at the Texas School Book Depository?
Yeah, I remember you saying something about that.
Let me tell you, when you're a figure like that, can you imagine going right to the Texas School Book Depository?
A little bit of a symbolism there, I would imagine.
Hello, America, from Gorby.
Gorby, that is really amazing.
Why is it that you went over there to meet with him?
It was you and your dad.
It was me and my dad on a CODEL mission, congressional delegation.
It was CODEL Dole.
So Bob Dole was with us, Senator Sims, D'Amato, a couple more.
I'd have to look it up who's on the list.
And we flew over there on an old Air Force One, and we refueled in Reykjavik.
Going there and coming back.
And we met, I met him in Prague.
So we were meeting with Shirley Temple Black, the ambassador to Prague.
This is 1990.
That's right.
And so we had meetings with her.
This is, remember, the wall was falling or just had fell.
And so it was this transitional period.
But what I could glean over Dad, you know, I, I was there for most of it as his assistant.
I knew a lot about Russian history from college.
It was my major.
And how dumb these senators were.
I said, they said, oh, they want us to go to the Bolshoi Ballet.
I'm not going.
I said, we're all going because that's a major offense.
They take the Bolshoi very seriously, it's national pride.
That's like saying you don't want to go with the president to the Kennedy Center, which is right here.
Right.
You just don't do that.
And so I was able to earn my keep on that trip.
I paid the Air Force my way.
That's fantastic.
The idea was I mean, the Iraqi delegation was there in the Kremlin.
It was a very awkward moment.
The generals and the ambassadors got on the elevator.
We got off the elevator.
So the obvious thing was we were there to tell Gorby, please don't sell more weapons to Saddam Hussein.
And of course, they did it through straw men and Israel.
Right.
What was your impression of Gorbachev?
Well, I mean, I knew a lot about him because he was kind of a hero of mine.
Perestroika.
I mean, it was, you know, he was someone that I admired after so many thugs, you know, and now we still have a thug.
But, you know, Gorbachev was different.
And I think he was the right man for the right time.
I think they were very close to disclosing some things in the late 80s.
I really do.
Yeah, dangerously close.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then Bush was like, no, I'm president now.
I think he was de facto president from 86 onward, at least, or maybe earlier, 84 onwards, because he might have had some Alzheimer's.
It's possible Reagan had a stroke.
No one's quite sure.
And of course, somebody tried to assassinate him, which was probably a deep state message that said, No, you're not going to disclose the deal.
Navy Time Portal Technology00:02:18
It's very early on, too.
Yeah.
Amazing.
They wanted to replace him right off the bat as soon as he got in, pretty much.
Yes.
And that's where this whole movie premiere thing was very strange for me because my dad said, Oh, you got to come to this big movie premiere.
Was at the Uptown Theater.
And this is the Countdown movie with the Secret Navy disclosure that they're showing at the Uptown.
Yeah, the Uptown is a giant theater in D.C., it's very Art Deco.
And they have all the big premieres there.
I went to Red October, I went to Patton, I went to all these things with my dad.
They always had the military movie premieres at the Uptown because it could hold 500 people, two tiers.
Wow.
And so for the final Countdown movie, Kirk Douglas was there, Martin Sheen, who plays a military contractor in the film.
Interesting.
And there were at least 300 Navy admirals and top officers and their families.
And an admiral patted my dad on the shoulder and said, Thanks to you, Senator, we now have our recruitment film.
Oh, wow.
And I'm like, That's odd.
They had full cooperation in the United States Navy, the Hollywood production team.
You could read about it on Wikipedia.
And they show F 14s and they had access to the Nimitz and they did a lot of filming on it.
And the Navy goes through a time portal, you know.
In somewhere and ends up in 1941, September, you know, December 7th.
So, when I heard this story about Al Bielik, he said that in 1936, the USS Kearsarge went down to St. Lucia, thereabouts, with a task force and knew where to look for this crystal structure, is all he said.
And they hauled it up with this crane ship, put it on the deck.
And Bielik says they used powerful radio waves and electromagnetic waves.
And this thing opened up and a giant portal opened up.
He says the ship went into the future.
I don't know.
But if it was the two eye stone or some other Atlantean technology, that means that the stories of the US Navy and their diving bells and the divers could go down very deep in those big brass helmeted suits, I think 400, 500 feet.
Ship Enters Future Timeline00:15:20
Interesting.
With a mixed gas.
And so that's been around since the 1890s or 1880s.
And so this technology, that means they knew where to look.
Right.
So that suggests old maps that the public's not privy to, psychics, other information that they had looking for, you know, it's been a hunt for Atlantis, Anunnaki, any other kind of ancient technology since Napoleon invaded Egypt, if not before.
Yes.
Well, the fact I find Thomas Townsend Brown down there in Cuba in the 30s.
Yeah.
And he probably was on board the Kearsarge with Tesla and maybe John G. Trump and John von Neumann.
They were all van Bush, they were all involved with Project Rainbow, the Eldridge.
Why wouldn't they be on?
If the story's true, why wouldn't they be on board?
That means they've been mucking around with this stuff for a lot longer than we thought.
Right.
And the story would either be true or derivative because all those factors are for sure involved.
We know there's a program of some sort that has to do with that area in the hot zone.
Yeah.
And we've got.
The Casey family is very close to the Hemingway family.
What is Hemingway's brother doing, founding New Atlantis, right?
Right.
And this place, the Mill Reef Club in Antigua, that's also in the hot zone.
Right.
Now, I'll tell you something that's slightly unrelated, but also related.
My grandfather's sister, Ailsa Mellon, was married to a Warburg.
His name was Courier.
And in 1960, he had a lot to do with the Kennedy.
Election, and he was involved with Martin Luther King and other people in the civil rights movement.
And the Warburgs are a committee of 300 that are Jewish family.
And my grandfather was not, he was an anti Semite.
Right.
And he never had anything to do with them.
And my cousins tell me, my second cousins, their children, Elsa and this guy Courier, my grandfather had nothing to do with them.
And so in 1967 or 8, their plane went down not far from Antigua.
Right near an Air Force base in the Caribbean.
And a lot of people, the family lore is the CIA killed them.
Now, that's a tough story for me to tell because my cousins might be upset at that.
But that's given everything else with my family, I want to let that be known.
I think they were killed as well.
This was 1968.
And if you look at his funeral, their funeral in New York City, you should see the who's who's list who went to the funeral.
Oh, wow.
All the civil rights people, Bobby Kennedy was there right before he died, I think.
They were involved with Bobby Kennedy as well.
You know, I know it's my grandfather's sister, but, you know, you're talking about X Protect.
Those are the people that were causing a lot of trouble in 1968 for the Deep State Martin Luther King, Bobby Kennedy.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's a tough story.
My cousins were raised by their.
Grandparents, uncle.
But I know him well.
And that's the family story, which doesn't have a big deal to do with what you and I are talking about.
But that, you know, I could honestly see Paul Melling have a hand in that because he hated the guy.
And, you know, that's anyway.
Well, no, these threads are fascinating.
And I think when you put these things out there, you know, I mean, I think when we did our first interview and a lot of things that you had to put on the record about Chris Mellon.
Who's this former defense official, your cousin, who's been running around to Elizondo and just promoting the whole UFO threat piece?
I think when you came out and really talked about it, that those guys really took a long look at the whole situation.
And I think it set a lot of things straight.
So you have a tendency to do that, which is put these important things on the record, even if it's related and sensitive regarding your family.
I mean, on the Mellon side, you're going to have those kind of.
Trap doors just by the mere fact that it's one of the biggest, most important families, you know, relating to financial history, political, economic, and all the rest.
So we always appreciate it when you come forward with these.
Yeah.
I mean, someone's got to put the dust together.
Right.
Here's another thing in 1971, my family went to the Bahamas.
And I remember that clearly because the first time we ever went, and it was right before my parents' divorce.
So it was our last family trip together with all of us.
And we were on the island of Eleuthera.
And this is a time when dad would take me everywhere with him.
I was nine years old.
And he said, I've got to go visit a submarine base that's not too far away.
I said, Well, can I go with you?
He said, Son, this can't do it.
And I begged him.
I remember I was crying.
Why can't you take me?
You know, it's only over there.
I want to see a submarine.
I think he was going to Autech.
Okay.
And so I've heard from people that, yeah, oh, yeah, your dad, when he was SecNav, of course he was at Autech a bunch of times.
So, what were they doing?
Well, Globe Mar Explorer, Autech, you know, the Caribbean, everything, you know.
Dad knew, I think my father knew about them, obviously, craning UFOs out of the water for sure.
I mean, that was highly classified in those days.
I never saw anything in his briefings about it, but from what I've learned about Autech, the DC circle I have, boy, they were just a repository of all that stuff they found in the Atlantic and the Caribbean.
Oh, yeah.
Wow.
Well, you know, it's referred to as the underwater Area 51 for a reason, right?
This is what we get.
When you think about that, and Eleuthera is interesting because, you know, spent a lot of time there as T.T. Brown, again, working on these projects.
That was all part of Atlantis in the day before the flood.
That area was above water, lots of it, you know, Bimini and the Bahamas and everything.
That was a huge landmass.
And so they knew, I think the U.S. Navy was.
Searching everywhere for as much Atlantis and UFO stuff that they could get their hands on.
And that's why I took Al Bielik's story about the USS Kearsarge seriously because of the movie that I went to, Final Countdown.
I mean, when I read that account, I was like, oh my God, I mean, has the Navy been involved with time travel since 1936?
Right.
I mean, it sounds wacky, but given everything we know today and all the stuff, all the movies, a lot of movies about time travel.
You know, I just don't think it's as big of a deal as people think it is.
Space travel is time travel, that's widely known.
So, even if you go to Mars, there's several hours you've got to make up for.
You're going to arrive, you know.
So, that's all, you know, I just don't think it's a big deal.
I think people are like, oh, no, portals.
And my God, the Navy showed you in this film in 1980 a giant portal sucking the US and Nimitz through it and sending it back in time to fight the Japanese.
Right, right.
What were they trying to tell us?
This was a Navy sponsored movie.
200, 300 brass in there.
Admirals galore.
I'm sure Inman was there.
I don't know.
He was probably a rear admiral in 1980, something like that, if I remember correctly.
Yeah.
I know Zumwalt was there because I sat next to him, Zumwalt, and my dad.
I mean, you know, it was a big gala and I thought it was really cool.
The movie wasn't that great.
But if you look at the movie, it says we have full participation of the United States Navy.
They got cameras on the deck of the Nimitz filming F 14s taking off.
Amazing.
Way before Talk Gun, which was a really lousy movie, it's ridiculous.
But this movie was trying to tell us something.
That's my opinion.
But I'm not alone.
There's other people who are like, yeah, that's really weird given all the weird stuff we know today.
But a recruitment film?
That's what the Admiral said.
What's the recruitment angle?
You want to join the Navy, go back in time and fight the Japanese?
I.
I wanted to be an F 14 pilot.
I didn't have the vision.
I don't have 2020.
Vision.
I was a pilot as a young man.
My buddy went through it.
Everyone wanted to be a pilot back then.
But remember, 1980 was the Vietnam War generation.
We were not keen on going in the military.
They needed recruitment forms.
Oh, yeah.
Like Officer and Gentleman, even Top Gun.
Those all were really good for the Navy.
Right.
So, yeah.
I don't know.
That's a really weird recruitment film.
We're going to go back there and get those Japanese.
Really?
The fact that Inman was there, your dad was there, and they're so excited about the movie premiere of this thing.
And it's that it's basically science fiction at the time, supposedly.
With the full cooperation of the United States Navy.
You can read that on Wikipedia.
Amazing.
Now, here's the quote from I've got my notes here.
Here's the quote from the guy at the back of the time who said Christopher John reviewed the final countdown movie in Aries Magazine number five and commented that, quote, There is nothing wrong with what is on the screen in Final Countdown.
What is on the screen, however, is only half of the film.
Maybe someday, like Close Encounters of the Third Kind, someone will go back and put in the missing half hour of this movie.
Unbelievable.
What did they take out?
Like Close Encounters, well, or Eyes Wide Shut.
They take out the salacious, scandalous stuff.
Right.
They must have made Final Countdown.
With an extra 30 minutes, which is why the film isn't that good.
All of a sudden, they're on the way to attack the Japanese.
They're like, ah, turn around.
And it sucked.
Everyone wanted to see them go back in time and change the timeline, change our world.
But maybe they did in the original version.
And they said, no, that might be too close to the truth.
Ah.
Now, this is getting into high octane speculation.
I don't know, folks.
Well, you're going into that era.
Go back in time and change the timeline where we, you know, the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor and we didn't destroy the task force.
You know, Nagumi and Yamato and everyone was in that.
I mean, I don't know.
The time travel stuff really boggles your mind.
There's no question.
But everyone was involved in it.
I mean, US Eldritch Project Rainbow, whether they wanted it to be or not, was a time travel hyperspace, you know.
Torsion tensor physics experiment that went awry wasn't the first.
Has anyone from Autech ever tried to contact you?
No, yeah, it's such a super secret outfit, really.
It's not talked about very much at all.
Yeah, um, I had heard about something like it, but until I saw your show where you mentioned it, I was like, I wonder if that's the place where dad went when I was a kid.
Wow.
And I remember my mother and father were arguing terribly back in those days.
And she's like, Where are you going?
And my dad said, I have to go three days.
She's like, This is our family vacation.
Damn you.
But his job came first.
So, what could have dragged him away from a Christmas family vacation?
Maybe they found something in 1971 and they needed the secretary.
He was undersecretary of the Navy at that time.
Right.
What needed his.
His eyes on boots on the ground in at Autech, probably at Autech.
I remember it was a big problem, and my mother's like, I've had it with your dad.
His job came first, he was a good father, but his job came first.
That's why he took me with him because he couldn't spend time with me otherwise.
He's like, Come on, I'm like, Hell yeah, I'll go with you.
And I'm he showed me the world, he showed me the navy and the world, the military, and everything, and that was invaluable.
But now, I mean.
It just sounds like my life is this cock and bull story, but it really happened.
I have no reason to lie.
I have no monetary gain.
I don't have anything to come forward and tell you a bunch of bullshit.
Why would I do that?
And it's so convoluted and complicated.
Melons, the OSS, the Wunderwaffe, or the, you know, this is a pretty subject.
No, you're right in the heart of it.
Now, can you tell us about some of the recent discoveries that you've made about the Mellon family connections?
I've also learned that Andrew Mellon, Paul Mellon's father, was a member of the Cosmos Club.
Right.
This is fascinating.
And I think Paul probably was too in secret.
My thinking is the Cosmos Club in the, in the, Early days was kind of a forerunner of MJ 12.
And I'm not talking about the large group of people.
I'm talking about the inner circle cliques and small groups.
Another one was called The Room.
Have you heard of that?
Yes.
Tell us about it.
The story is I was just talking to this friend over the email about it.
I've heard of it.
In the 20s and 30s, before there was an American intelligence service, the Rockefellers and the Mellons and DuPonts and FDR and other presidents and people.
People around DC, they had intelligence services.
And they would meet, there was a group called The Room.
And that was the big top group.
And I'm trying to find out if Andrew Mellon is mentioned as being part of that.
But this guy I'm talking to says he probably was.
Given his access to the British royal family, being ambassador to England in 1931, Secretary of the Treasury, my guess is as a robber baron oligarch, he probably did.
The Room Intelligence Group00:06:16
And they discussed the UFO file in those days.
Amazing.
So, what year would we put this in?
You're talking the 1920s.
Teens, World War I era, teens, 20s, 30s.
And then by 1940, the OSS is created under Donovan.
And you don't necessarily need those groups, but you know they still exist.
Just like I've heard the OSS still exists within the CIA.
I don't know what they do, but that's what I've heard around town.
I'll try to get more information on that.
But the room is very interesting.
I think you can find some stuff on the internet about it.
But it's not all nefarious.
You know, people had to deal in the 1920s.
If we put ourselves back in that era, they're like, okay, shit, you know, we've got these UFOs have been flying around forever.
But now ET is starting to interact with probably the Germans and other people in Europe.
What do we do about this?
Can we contact some of these people?
And they probably did Pleiadians, I don't know, Grays.
This guy mentions the Grays to me.
And back then, they were probably more naive and they thought, well, we can do business with these people.
And remember, nonlinear quantum physics was being developed in Germany in the early 1920s, if not before.
Hahn, Heisenberg, Gerlach, others.
So the narrative gets pushed back deeper and further.
Right, too often with the UFO piece, we're stuck in the 1947 because of the massive waves and the Roswell piece.
But if you actually go in there, some of the things you cited about Roosevelt, he was familiar with the UFO file.
Oh, yeah.
And I've dug up some interesting information about he had in the 1930s a program, a military program for psychics in Arlington, Virginia, in a warehouse.
What they did was the US Army was in charge of it and they concentrated on twins because twins have that natural psychic connection between each other.
Now, the Germans were into this, as you know Mengele, the twins, the experiments, and the death.
Yes, oh yeah.
So, this component, especially if you go back to Project Rainbow, the Eldridge, and you have hyperspace travel using high voltage and torsion fields, torsion tensor physics, the word is you need a psychic navigator or it won't work.
And that's what the problem with the Eldridge was they didn't have someone on the bridge who was a psychic navigator who could channel those energies properly.
Instead, they just, you know, the Navy, just flip the switch, you know, and woo!
And everyone gets burned up or melted into bulkheads.
Oh, right.
You know, the Navy.
I mean, I love the Navy, but it's like, you know, we fixed it this time.
We'll get it right this time.
And then what do you do?
I just flip the switch.
The Admiral says, flip it.
You know, I had no safety.
You know, you can see John T. Trump and Vannevar Bush, and they're all going, no, don't flip the switch.
You know, Tesla's like, you know, but the Navy loves to just flip the switch.
And so.
But it's interesting because the Navy is always at the core.
Oh, yes.
I mean, this is actually the Air Force is almost secondary.
No, tertiary, I think.
And the reasons I think are that most of the UFO crashes were out of sea.
If you think about it, you're on a ship and it's 360 degrees to the horizon view.
Not like you're on land with trees and buildings in the way.
No, you have a clear view.
That's why you see in these photographs from the submarine periscope.
Of big UFOs getting out of the water, flying away, but they have unobstructed clear view.
The other thing is, you have to remember going back to the 19th century, here we have, let's say, after the Civil War in the 1870s, you've got the US Army, they have Gatling guns and Springfield trapdoor rifles fighting the Native Americans, sadly.
But what does the Navy have?
Well, it has the latest technology from Europe, which is they're starting to get into steam turbines, pre dreadnoughts.
Big inch guns and primitive fire control systems, so that by the turn of the century in 1900, the British are coming out with the HMS Dreadnought with all big guns and everything like that.
Naval advancement has always been at the forefront of technology, if you think about it.
I mean, look at the monitor versus the CSS Virginia in the Civil War, the first battle between ironclads.
The monitor was very high technology for the day.
The turret was run by steam, and so.
The Navy, the United States Navy has always had the lion's share of technology in this country.
To build a wooden ship in George Washington's time, you know, like a second rate frigate, that took a lot of technology.
Different types of wood, you know, cannons, brass, you know, different metals, materials, very complicated.
Yeah.
And so people don't realize that.
They think, oh, the Air Force is flying around, they see UFOs.
But the Air Force did have high technology after World War II, but before that, it was.
Dribs and drabs.
They're trying to get piston engines to achieve close to 500 miles an hour, but they did get to 500 in a P 47 Thunderbolt during the war with alcohol water injection, but blah, blah, blah.
The Navy, the United States Navy.
And that's why I said to you, I wrote to you, someone sent it to me and said, My God, your dad was involved with the Underwater National Reconnaissance Office.
And I'm embarrassed, I'd never heard of it.
And lo and behold, as Secretary of Navy back in 72, he was involved with the Glomar Explorer.
Freemason Degree Requirements00:04:43
Interesting.
This is when he was going to Antarctica for the first time.
He went down there three or four times, as far as I remember.
He's part of Operation Deep Freeze.
And the Glomar Explorer was picking up Russian subs and crash UFOs.
Yes.
This is what this USS Kearsarge was a crane ship.
So, in the old days, I heard that in World War II, they were craning softwares out of the sea when the Japanese are strafing the task force.
Oh, wow.
And I wrote it into my new book that I'm writing now.
And they're like, what the hell's going on?
And they said, that's how important this is, this technology is.
The Germans are way ahead of us in World War II.
Fascinating.
In the 20s and 30s, the U.S. Navy is down there with divers and the big helmets.
And we found it and they craned it back up.
Wow.
So they've been after all these UFO crashes and other technology, the Atlantis stuff, for a long time, probably since the 19th century.
Yeah.
Yeah, it would make sense.
We've got the book, The Antediluvian World, and that comes out in 1881.
And it's pretty much the most complete book on Atlantis for that period known anymore.
Theosophist Society?
Theosophical Society.
Well, when Blavatsky did Isis Unveiled, Atlantis is in there, and that's even earlier.
That's like 1877.
But then Ignatius Donnelly and his book is strange because Donnelly is.
In consideration for vice president, he is a congressman from Minnesota.
So he's in this whole piece.
And he says, Oh, there's too many links on the language side for the Egyptians and the American Indians.
And he threads that whole piece together.
So you're right.
As far as Atlantis goes, this is an older, you know, the bringing forward of that information because it really goes hot and heavy by the 60s.
Oh, yeah.
People need to understand that Napoleon had free Masonic.
Scientists with him on his invasion of Egypt, I think, 1806 or 1812.
Why?
I think they knew exactly where to look for the Rosetta Stone and other treasures.
Oh, interesting.
Right.
The guy who, you know, if you read about his scientists and the guy who translated the Rosetta Stone in France, they were all Freemasons.
And I got to tell you, this Freemason 33rd and above link, I mean, World War II, it leads a who's who of a Freemason.
And Recently, a guy did an interview.
It's a written interview on the internet.
And there's a picture that Lou Elizondo said he was a 33rd degree Mason.
Interesting.
I wonder if Chris Mellon is as well, because they're taught to keep secrets upon threat of death and they take it very seriously.
Yeah.
So, I mean, with you guys growing up, kind of, you know, you'd see each other and you had some kind of relationship very early on.
Was the Mason thing in the family at all?
Not that I know of.
My dad wasn't, I don't know anybody in my family who was a Freemason, but they do this in secret.
Yeah.
It goes way back to the founding fathers and even before, you know, the Egyptian mystery school information and the Holy Grail, the cup of knowledge.
And this is all protected by people, both, you know, positive, negative, nefarious, and white hat together, which is an interesting duality piece to it.
But there's no doubt that for the United States military and government, if you want people to be read in on the UFO file or even the esoteric stuff or whatever, high technology, it used to be or it still is, you have to be a 33rd degree or above Freemason.
It's looking like that to me still now because, whether in secret or public, I think Lou had a few beers too many and told this guy, Yeah, I'm a Mason, so what?
But the Masons at this level, you know, 33 degree, there are a lot of people at 30, 30 degree, but there's this elite people.
And it doesn't have to do with money, it has to do with being of the elite club that's read into the UFO file.
Right.
I mean, the Cosmos Club is rife with them.
Is what I've heard.
Well, would you say the Cosmos Club could almost be like the Bilderberg for the UFO file?
Yes, there's a lot of highfalutin people, a lot of government senators.
Illuminated Elite Culture00:02:07
It's where they all meet and talk with scientists and astronomers and mystics.
And I know that Steiner and Blavatsky and all the theosophy, that's all heavily part of the Cosmos Club.
I talked to a guy who's retired and he was in it and he said, oh, yeah, philosophy, theosophy, metaphysics, it's all part of it.
You know, everyone thinks it's all nefarious.
No, it's a everything is gray, it's a mix.
As I was saying, all Illuminati people, people that are illumined, are evil.
It's like, no, right, you're not.
Everyone in the disclosure movement is illumined, therefore, we're Illuminati, right?
Right, it's there needs to be another name for the nefarious 10 of either 300 or the royal, yeah, you know, the black-hatted.
You know, it's a good point, it's an excellent point.
If the terms are outdated in a sense in their modern usage, um.
And there is, you know, there's a great deal of people who want to move the culture forward with those themes.
Yeah.
It's just a catchphrase, but it's like, you know, everyone's going to say, well, he's apologizing.
He's one of them, you know.
Okay.
You know, whatever.
But I'm not.
Most of the people, my cousins are all hippies and liberals.
And, you know, I'm like in the middle of the road, libertarian anarchist.
But it's like it has nothing to do with that.
You're either illumined or you're not.
You can't.
Force it on anyone.
If they don't want to wake up, they won't.
But if they're interested, then you can help them if you want as an equal, not as a, you know, I don't like people on the internet who have, oh, my followers.
That's dangerous.
You want people that walk with you as equals.
Oh, yeah.
It's like Martin Luther King.
I mean, I don't want to be your commander.
I want to walk with you as an equal.
That's where we need to go.
I'm very wary of people say, oh, well, my followers, my loyal minions.
You know, and it's like, whoa, you know.
FDR Knew the Truth00:09:35
Yeah.
And you have to be really careful with your words.
You and I have to be careful.
I get a lot of grief from people.
They're like, oh, you're going to get killed.
You're bullshit.
You're this, that, and the other.
You know, we have to be very careful with our words because everyone's, it's all very confusing, but everything can get misconstrued very quickly.
There's no question.
There's no question.
Well, sticking with the Cosmos Club for a minute, what do you think your grandfather was doing there?
Well, he and Mary Miller were both mystics, Carl Jung, the Eros conferences in Switzerland and everything.
I think they were genuinely in the late 30s in America, in Washington and others.
They were gathering people because they knew war was coming.
FDR knew we were going to war, I think, in 1936.
I think that far back.
He saw Germany re honoring.
People weren't stupid.
Yes, America's isolationists.
You can get into the conspiracy whether or not Marshall and FDR knew about the Pearl Harbor attack.
They might have.
I'm not sure if we'll ever positively figure that out, but they probably did.
But as you and I, if we were president of the United States in December of 1941, you were in an isolationist country and you knew that the Nazi Germany were not only involved with anti gravity and free energy experiments, you know, the beginnings of the Nazi Bell and other things, and they were far along in their nuclear, would you not want to jumpstart America?
Now, that's a horrible way to do it.
2,500 lives lost, a lot of wounded burned.
Very horrible.
And we, you know, the battleships only sunk 30 feet.
You know, they were in a shallow harbor.
They knew that.
And they knew there was someone who says that FDR knew that to put the two carriers out to sea and I think another modern cruiser.
And most of the stuff that was in Pearl Harbor was older battle wagons.
Right.
And we repaired most of them.
But anyway, getting back to your question, you know, I think in Washington in the late 30s, they were getting ready for World War II.
And they were like, shit, we've got to get our mystical and theosophical and philosophical people and all the astronomers and all the scientists and all the military people together somewhere and start trying to figure this out because we're way behind the Germans and maybe the Japanese as well.
There's stories that the Japanese nuclear program was farther along than we thought, too.
Oh, interesting.
There's not a lot of information.
There's some hearsay about it.
But probably the Germans shared a little bit.
I don't know if the German and Japanese had a very tenuous relationship.
Most of the Nazis thought them to be subhuman, but let's use them as our allies until we win and then maybe we'll bomb them with atomic bombs and get rid of them.
I don't know.
But knowing the SS and high command, probably.
No, Peter didn't like to meet with the Japanese representatives.
He didn't like them.
He did, but he didn't like them.
You shared a story about talking with your grandfather and him saying we got to look at these very unusual flying machines in Germany.
And he did mention the Cosmos Club in our conversations over the years.
He said you would enjoy it.
He wanted you to be a part of it.
Yeah, he's like, that's something you might enjoy.
And I thought about it, but then.
15 years ago, I was like, well, wait a minute.
Maybe they'll slap the cuffs on me and recruit me for.
You're one of us now.
You know, I was like, you probably barely avoided it.
Maybe I should stay, you know, never work for the military or the government.
Maybe that's the best.
But the Cosmos Club is very interesting.
Yeah, my grandfather told me this story.
He was with Patton in Pilsen.
He said Czechoslovakia.
He didn't say Pilsen, but it has to be Pilsen.
And he said, we saw a hangar with the rockets and the flugel rod.
And a bigger disc shaped aircraft.
And I said, you know, was it the Flugelrad?
And he said, no.
This thing did not have jets.
And that was kind of the end of the conversation, but it didn't really, at the time, you know, I was 23, it really didn't register.
Not until I read Nick Cook's book, The Hunt Preserve One.
Do you think he was trying to tell you something?
I think a little bit, because at that point I said to him, I wanted to go in the Navy and Marines after college, which I was planning to do.
But life turned out differently for me.
Right.
I wish I had.
I do.
But as an officer, you sign a bunch of contracts.
And I think there's a good possibility that within that fine print, it's like you talk out of school.
Adios.
Right.
So that's what I mean.
My ONI friend is a Navy captain.
He said, you know, I can't talk with you about a lot of stuff.
I'll talk with you about what I can.
And that's when he talked about the satellites that had two man crews and the B 2 bomber.
And the Navy had their own satellites and the Air Force had their own.
It was a real problem.
Yeah.
Wow.
Who else has Tesla?
Right.
And there's the split there with the Air Force and the Navy, I think is fascinating.
They hate each other.
They've always hated each other.
Yeah.
I think in the Morris Jessup UFO story and the whole piece that gets into the Philadelphia experiment, there's the Navy people getting the annotated version of Jessup's book, and then there's the Air Force people trying to shut it down.
It's a really.
That's one of those stories where this split is on display.
It's interesting, though, because you have your grandfather's influence and hanging out in the Cosmos Club, and then there's your dad, Senator Warner, who passed away last year.
And, you know, right when we put out this interview that we did last year, he came forward with so many things.
It was right there in the same time period where he passed away.
When you reflect back on him now, is it fair to say that?
At the end of his life, he wanted you to come forward and talk about these things?
He did.
He urged me to.
And what's interesting is in the last couple of years, you know, how many people have sent me information.
You need to look into this.
Your dad was involved.
You know, like the Glomar Explorer thing.
I mean, dad never talked about that.
He may have back in the day.
I don't remember.
He did say that, you know, the Navy's been picking up very strange aircraft debris off the ocean floor.
For many, many decades.
I remember him saying that.
I always thought Russian MiGs and subs.
It's like, yeah, a little bit.
But what else were they picking up?
Incredible.
Right.
And so we've got a huge, probably US Navy salvage yards of UFO parts and crash retrievals somewhere in underground facilities.
I mean, we probably have more than we can ever possibly use.
We're always looking for better stuff.
It's just like with any other foreign aircraft.
If a MiG lands, you want to take it apart and examine it.
Before giving it back.
So I would have done the same thing if I was Nimitz or Admiral King in World War II.
I'd say, pick up everything you can.
And I think the story that the Japanese were attacking this, I think it was in the Coral Sea, somewhere near there, and they were craning a spaceship out of the water, and the Japanese were strafing them and bombing them.
And that's how important it was.
And I wrote it in my book this Admiral's very angry about it.
And he said, well, go talk to Nimitz.
You know, another Admiral says, go talk to Nimitz because he was in charge.
Now, I don't have proof of that story, but it makes sense given all the other things.
This is the third book that you have coming out.
Yeah, the title is called Sanity Was a Luxury.
Okay, great.
It has to do with Kamler.
Kamler, yeah.
It has to do with the Wunderwaffe.
It does get into the German anti gravity technology, Hermann Oberth.
Gerlach's back in there, Kamler's in there, and it has to do with the Gustav gun lobbing atomic shells onto the Soviets.
So, my team has to take their stolen German anti gravity airship and somehow defeat the Gustav gun, which weighed 1,350 tons, 800 millimeter shell, seven tons.
And we know it was there.
We have pictures of it in a railway yard in 1944 disassembled, and then the Germans finally blew it up.
But what was it doing from 1942 to late 1943?
No one knows.
And so I mentioned, I said, I took a page from J.P. Farrell.
You know, were the Nazis using not only the Nebelwerfer, fuel air rockets, Tabin nerve gas, organophosphate, which was being developed in Poland, a facility there?
And what was the Gustav gun doing?
Hidden Tactical Nukes00:14:06
And where are these 27 to 30 million casualties coming from, other than frostbite, starvation, penal battalions, which There were some, but that's been overplayed.
I figured that out over the years.
Everyone's like, oh, they had so many casualties because they were shooting their own people.
No, they did that on occasion, but it wasn't as widespread.
It's stupid.
You don't want to shoot your own people.
But if they're lobbing atomic shells or anything, the Russians made a huge sacrifice.
And I understand they were harsh on Latvia and when they invaded Poland and Latvia in the Finnish War.
And the Russians weren't saints, but man, they took the brunt of World War II.
Oh my God.
Numbers.
We all owe our lives to them.
Not the high command, not Stalin, but from General Zhukov on down, we owe them.
And the civilians working hard in factories, we owe them.
Everyone's like, oh, I hate Russia and Putin.
It's like, well, don't hate the people.
Right, exactly.
Their grandfather saved all of our lives.
Well, they're working overtime to make us hate the people right now.
Putin's going after some deep state nefarious Nazi.
You know, fascist wing.
It's obvious they have Panzer, SS Panzer Battalion, you know, patches on their suits.
They're not even hiding.
They're trying to hide it, you know.
It's really, it's funny, but it's not funny.
I know.
You know, and it worries me, but Putin's not a saint.
Russians aren't saintly people, they're brutal.
But Putin would not have gone to war with Ukraine.
And I'll say it again, people hate it when I say it, but it's Russia attacking Russia.
I'm sorry.
They were.
Ukraine was a breakaway group because the Russians let them.
It was an experiment.
Well, the experiment failed.
And I think some of the right wing groups took over.
And I'm sorry for the civilians.
I really am.
They suffer in every war.
It's terrible.
The little girls and everything in the subway tunnels.
I mean, my heart goes out to them.
Oh, yeah.
But man, Putin would not have gone to war willy nilly.
What do you think about our leadership whipping up the nuclear?
Thing and like, you know, Putin mentioning, well, I have these nukes and I'll use them.
And then, you know, Biden stumbling out there and saying, well, there could be Armageddon and them running PSAs about, you know, nuclear, like, hey, hey, if a nuclear strike hits, go in your house.
I mean, and trying to normalize this idea of a nuclear exchange after we've spent an entire history trying to avoid this.
What's going on there?
At my father's funeral at the National Cathedral, I met President Biden.
And the only thing I asked him was, you know, is this war in Ukraine thing going to be a real problem?
I don't think we'll ever use big nukes.
And he said, We'll never use big nukes.
And that was the only thing I asked him.
It was a very short meet and greet, but a separate room.
Interesting.
My knowledge, I washed my hand like 40 times after that.
You know, my wife and I got a little creepy feeling.
Just as I did with Bush and Cheney and Rumsfeld in the Oval Office.
When I met them, I needed a parka.
It was the middle of summer.
I felt like I needed a parka.
Interesting.
A little temperature drop.
Big nukes.
I'm on board.
With the idea that ET has made the big nukes inoperable.
I think there's a lot of evidence for it, given the UFO sightings around nuclear sites, the stories of nuclear warheads burning down.
Someone very close, ex military, told me that we had a missile platform in orbit in 1978, and it was stocked with nuclear missiles.
And then one day, they were all gone.
Now, I can't find out any information that's just a story.
I want everyone to be mindful of that.
But it's somebody I trust.
It's an older man in his 80s, he's military.
And he said, You know, that's the real part of Star Wars.
Before the directed energy weapons of the 80s, we had missiles in orbit ready to go.
Now, if you fire a missile from a space station in orbit, people forget about Skylab.
You know, that was in 1978.
Yeah.
In 1973 78, and so it's not hard to put missiles in orbit ready to go, then you can hit a target.
You tell me one minute, two minutes, it's coming down from orbit at hyper, you know, hypersonic speed.
So, you're implying there that the ETs got rid of those missiles on that platform.
That's what he told me.
He's not a big UFO ET guy, he's like, I don't know what happened, but you need to know that we did have that.
I don't know if that was under the Air Force, the Navy, or some other agency.
I don't have any information other than this story, and it's somebody I trust.
I want to make that clearer.
It's not like I have tons of proof, but it makes sense given all the military history that I know.
The 70s, our capabilities, easily done in the 70s.
There are ET stories floating around in relation to Skylab.
So that's what grabs me about that story.
Yeah.
So he may not be alone.
Yeah.
The nuke card, they always play that.
It's just a gambler's bluff.
Oh, we're going to nuke you.
And people are like, oh shit, I'm afraid of nuclear war.
It's like, no, they have smaller tactical nukes that dissipate radiation very fast or have no radiation at all.
I've heard they might be used.
I think they were used maybe in Yemen.
You can look up the giant explosions.
Oh, we hit an ammunition bunker, just like the Gustav gun in Sebastopol in 1942.
Oh, really?
Wow, there's a lot of ammunition.
It's this massive explosion.
And it's like, or was it a tactical nuke?
Yeah.
I think, you know, I've had.
Discussions with military people about that.
No one's quite sure, but some of those videos look like they could have been.
So I think we use those and will continue to use those because they're not dirty.
They don't leave a radiation signature.
You can have a dirty bomb if that's what you want that doesn't explode.
It's just a small explosion.
But I think they always play this big nuclear war card to get people to do things that's scared.
A lot of world leaders and politicians around the world are still afraid of nuclear weapons.
Personally, I'm not.
The big ones, they're useless.
How are you going to win a war with that and lay waste to everything?
They knew that 60 years ago, 70 years ago.
They tried to make small tactical nukes.
I'm sure we've used them, nuclear tip torpedoes.
Did we use them on a Soviet sub in the middle of the Pacific in the 60s?
Who knows?
How are you going to find out?
But ET, really, all of them, nuclear weapons, bad because it rips holes in space time and it actually.
If we let off a big nuke, like here on Earth, I've read that in another galaxy, someone's like, oh, somebody let off a nuke on Earth.
That's a big cosmic illegal no-no because it affects other people.
Even into the fifth dimension, I've heard, not just the fourth, third, fourth, but into the lower fifth, you're disturbing a lot of people with that.
That's why they're illegal.
You've got this lovely fabric of space-time, and you're poking holes in it.
It's interesting because you mentioned the Ukrainian UFO.
There have been that large series of sightings in the Ukraine war zones, related everywhere, it seems.
Yeah.
Scotland, my wife shows me every day.
She goes, UFO sighting.
I'm like, you know.
But you're probably up there.
Is it a UFO cab this time?
Or is it something else?
I don't care about sightings.
Richard Dolan does.
We better call him.
His newest thing is UFO behavior.
And reporting structures.
What happened to Dolan's output?
I don't know.
He's talking about just being really boring.
It's like, that's mildly interesting 40 years ago, but not today.
We're way beyond that.
Well, see, you hang out with two of the Stars Academy before they go down.
It is interesting, though, because.
Big cash.
I don't know.
It's very strange.
He was there with you guys at the Secret Space Program Conference 10 years ago.
And then all of a sudden, his narrative just went sideways.
It's not that interesting.
It's too bad because he's a very smart guy.
He did a lot of really good work early on.
Oh, no question.
I'd love to make fun of him.
I know that's not productive, but it's like, come on.
I urge him to up his game.
Stop messing around with this UAP task force people behind the scenes.
And, you know, as you and I know, he could have been threatened.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, all those things are.
You did a wonderful thing, actually, which is you put together all the different names that they've been, and you sent it over.
Yeah.
It's remarkable.
There's a new one.
I forgot the new one.
There's a brand new one out.
Oh, Arrow is one of them.
Yeah, but there's a newer one.
There's one, right.
There's a new one coming out, which is part of the new NDAA for 2023.
So, goodbye, Arrow, which was supposed to be Blue Book Redux 2022.
But some of these names, like you said, UAPTF, Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon Task Force.
AIMSOG, it's the worst name in history.
Airborne Object Identification and Management Synchronization Group.
Why the soup of groups?
It's just more counterintelligence tactic to muddy the waters.
It's like a person, a citizen calls up and said, Well, I want to talk to somebody in the UAP Task Force.
And they said, Well, I'm sorry, but maybe you should call someone in Arrow.
And you call up Arrow and they're like, Well, I have these sightings and photos of UFO.
And they're like, Well, call the Pentagon, call the synchronization group.
Who the hell is synchronizing what?
It's the old runaround shell game, dilute the narrative, Project Blue Book thing all over again.
They're just creating more departments to, you know, they can't get rid of the UFO topic.
So they just keep flooding it with nonsense.
Like, we're doing something, you know, by golly, UAP Task Force is on the job with Senator Rubio.
You know, what are they doing?
They're hanging out at Old Evett's Grill, drinking beer, you know, and wearing, I don't know, a simple hat.
They're not doing anything.
They're just passing the buck.
That's what I wrote in that.
Press release I did, I said, you know, this is everything I know.
You know, I don't care what the truth is, the wild stuff or whatever.
It's like they're doing everything they can to make this.
Yes, we're talking about UAPs, which is distractive in itself, but, you know, not really.
Right.
You know, it's ridiculous.
Well, we saw the hearings in May when they came out.
They're about to outlaw citizen research.
Exactly.
That was the piece.
And that caught my attention because they were going back and forth.
You know, it was this congressman from Illinois at LaHood, and he was talking with the DOD official and he said, What do you think about punishing amateur interest groups?
And the DOD official's like, Oh, yeah, you know, like I'll talk to you about that after session.
You know, it's a good idea.
I mean, it shows you the quality of that.
And Homeland Security hosted the entire event.
Yeah.
So we're getting Homeland Security involved with a quarter of a million employees.
John, when you look at that and you see the developments since last year, when they said, oh, we're going to put out this big report, and that fizzled, and then they've come up with.
You and I both knew it was going to be a nothing burger.
Yes.
With a side order of lies, crispy lies.
My wife laughed.
It was less than nothing.
Oh, yeah.
It's more rhetoric, more hot air, lip service.
I mean, these are common political and intelligence tactics.
Right.
My dad taught me that.
He's like, you can't answer a question directly.
You got to beat around the bush.
And politicians, he was really good at it.
He was good at it with me.
And I was like, stop beating around the bush.
Did you crane that saucer out of the sea and take it to Antarctica and Project Deep Freeze?
Well, how the hell did you roll that?
It's what politicians do.
He caught you at a certain point, kind of leaving.
Through some stuff related to the magic style documents at one point.
So, you think maybe looking back now at his life that he was probably, I mean, we knew he had something to do with the magic group, but the more you look at it, do you think that he was deeply involved?
I think he was deeper than I thought because this piece on Wikipedia, if you look up, I think it's on the Glomar Explorer on Wikipedia, it says, you know, 1972, you know, I think Bobby Ray Inman was in that mix.
Tribes and Lost History00:14:04
I remember him in the Pentagon when he was a commander.
Wow.
So I knew Bobby Ray Emin going back to before 70, 71, too.
He was always there in my dad's office.
He was him and Zumwalt.
Admiral Zumwalt was a good friend of my dad.
He lived in my house in Georgetown for a year.
Uncle Zum.
He and my dad argued a lot.
They were doing some reforms in the Navy, more women.
I remember they could grow beards for a while in the 70s.
But other things, and I think this is what they were doing, was expanding the Navy's role.
But since my dad passed away a year and a half ago, people have come out of the woodwork and said, Did you realize your dad was into this?
And I said, No.
Wow.
Because he's gone now and they can, I guess.
They want you to not get into trouble or whatever.
I see.
Oh, okay.
Well, so he felt like he was protecting you by keeping you out of the loop.
But then once he died, they can come forward.
Yeah.
You know, he talked about some of it.
I was just going to mention that.
You've mentioned the Anunnaki a few times.
You have a good understanding around what was going on there.
But what I think is interesting is you see it as kind of the First major UFO wave, first major UFO contact down here.
You mean in those times?
Yeah.
10,000 years ago in Sumeria?
Well, I think Atlantis was a spacefaring empire by all accounts.
People coming and going.
I think the Sons of Belial had been influenced by a regressive ET group that came in and said, hey, you know, all these goody two shoes Atlantis people, you know, the Amelius group and the Sons of the Law of One, those guys are sissies, man.
Come on.
And they started planning.
Vineyards.
Yeah.
And then the sons of Belial were like, well, we need some slaves again.
And they, you know, centaurs and chimeras and genetics work.
Hmm.
And all this other stuff.
And by all accounts, when that war happened, not only were there meteorites, but probably some atomic weapons in the mix of some sort.
And so another source that there's a good source that says that, you know, right around 9,000, 10,000 years ago, the Anunnaki groups.
That were splintering up in fractions, you know, they were factions.
The Scythians is one group, the Jewish peoples, the Arabic peoples, and then maybe some of the Egyptians were these arms of bloodlines of, you know, human beings with Anunnaki DNA and people with more Anunnaki blood, whatever, Nephilim or, you know, the tall people with the big heads or whatever.
But they were fighting with nuclear weapons.
And this is kind of around the time of Rama and Mahendra Daro in India.
The melted glass in the Sinai and also in India.
Where did all this melted glass come from?
And oh, by the way, there's some radiation here after 9,000 years.
Very intriguing.
So I think the UFO thing is all of human history.
Going back to the beginning, before we even existed, this planet was grand central station.
I think it's obvious.
Three chariots of the gods, the Nazca Lions.
At the Nazca Lions, they have these mountaintops that are just carved off.
I showed it to a mining engineer.
It's like that's strip money.
Everyone's like, oh, it's a mystery.
We don't know what these lines meant.
The spoil, if you go down there and look at the lines, the spoil is gone.
It's not, they didn't carve a straight line and make piles of spoil.
The spoil is not there.
It's strip money.
I sent a message to a couple of people about that and they flipped out.
Oh, no, it's all sacred, all those sacred sites.
I'm like, man, Sacsayhuaman, and I've been to Machu Picchu.
A lot of that looks industrial.
And then I contacted a guy who said that he thought, this young guy, who said he thought that Chaco Canyon and other places looked a lot like gold mining pits of the modern day.
Oh, interesting.
Yeah.
And that's not to say later cultures didn't create it, make it sacred.
They did, Kivas and everything.
But originally, I was at the Anunnaki going around the world and mining for gold and other ET groups and other human groups.
Trade thing with ETs, I think it goes back to time immemorial.
Absolutely.
What are they keeping secret in the deep state?
I mean, forget everything.
I had this discussion with someone.
It's, you know, forget everything.
What is this mass of trillions of dollars missing?
You can prove that.
What is it paying for?
Oh, and we have enemies around the world.
No, we don't.
We can whip everyone around the world 10 times over combined.
The general said that.
And it's like the secrecy is hiding something huge.
And I think it's all the work you've done and all the work that other people have done to illustrate.
They're keeping us from our genuine history.
That's the bottom line.
And it includes all of this.
You know, I think that they're teaching us 5% of what our true history is, is correct.
For the last forever, since the Roman era, anyway.
I think the Middle Ages, the Vatican got going strong, and they, oh, we better send monks around the world to make sure the pagans convert to Christianity and we're going to burn all these texts.
They got rid of a lot of stuff.
The first book burnings were probably the Library of Alexandria and the Library of Apollo in Rome.
Oh, right.
Yeah.
We don't want anyone to know about the gods and who the gods really are.
Anunnaki, others, worship me.
And look at the pediments.
I had my Freemason friends come into DC in June.
One is very good in the occult, the other is a Freemason.
And I showed them all DC.
I said, look at these giant statues of men and women.
Funny how they're all 15 feet tall, which is what they describe the Anunnaki kings to be.
You can see it on the cylinder seals.
They're twice as tall as the average person.
And all the pediments in D.C. have all these gods and goddesses, Semiramis, on the Capitol.
These are all Isis and Inanna and Hecate and Moloch and you name it.
They're all based on Anunnaki gods.
Because you still worship them, most people.
You bound down in the United States Senate, it's the same thing.
It's all this.
Someone, a foreign dignitary, once commented in the Washington Post he said, I've never seen a capital city in the world that was so religious.
It says, In God we trust on every single government building.
Everywhere, the fasces, symbol of fascism from Rome.
The legions carried it along with the bell tree, which the Nazis used, the Schellenbaum.
You know, it's all these Roman military iconography and symbolic.
Huh.
Holy cow.
I mean, yeah, it's pretty amazing.
Well, and that whole setup around early America just has that esoteric overlay, hardcore, right down to July 4th, right?
The Freemasons had designed DC.
It's a Freemasonic city.
I took them up to the Freemasonic temple on 16th Street, it's an Egyptian Hathor temple.
Explain that.
Everyone's like, what's the Egyptian mystery school information?
I'm like, man, everything that's in the deep state today anti gravity, where we come from, DNA, genetic experiments, the manas, Bell technology, you name it.
That's all in the Egyptian mystery school.
You know, DC is just right.
Once you have the eyes to see, I mean, they were blown away.
One's from England, one's from Ohio, and John and John Luke.
And they're amazing guys.
They're super smart.
And I'm like, look at this city.
It was laid out by George Washington and the Freemasons to be a Freemasonic machine, the whole thing, the District of Columbia.
Wow.
You know, I've heard rumors that the Pentagon was built atop an ancient fort.
Oh, really?
Possibly a star fort or something like that.
I don't know about the electromagnetic and the ley lines, but there's ley lines that go through DC, the seventh meridian in DC.
There's a park.
I took them there and they were like, oh, yeah, it's a ley line installation.
I was just showing you the ley line going through DC.
Incredible.
So Freemasons have always known, they told George Washington, hey, you need to put it, DC is not a swamp, but there are marshy areas in the original.
But it wasn't.
You can't build buildings on a swamp.
The swamp is really about the Politicians, right?
It's the inhabitants thereof.
DC is built on firm foundations.
You can't put giant buildings.
I think the Freemasons told George Washington and everybody, you need to put the city right here.
Not because it's, you know, yes, it's between North and South, the Southern plantation owners and the Northern, you know, liberals who want to free the slaves.
Yes, sort of in the midsection, but really they wanted it to be in Philadelphia.
Why did they pick this spot in DC?
It wasn't because it was near George Washington's home.
He didn't want to live next to a capital city.
They did it for telluric energy reasons, leyline reasons.
And they said, if you're going to build this great new Atlantis that John Dee and Sir Francis Bacon have talked about, it needs to be here.
Because I think the story is Michael Zarian writes a good book about Atlantis.
The whole East Coast of the United States, where the major cities are, possibly Atlantis colonies.
Yeah.
Remember Crystal Mountain, Arkansas?
That's another crystal mountain.
There's giant quartz crystals under that mountain.
Fascinating.
Quartz crystals, folks.
The pyramids are made of them.
They're using quartz and high technology.
They can make a hard drive out of quartz.
All this stuff boggles your mind, but it's like I know DC was planned out by L'Enfant and an African American man by the name of Banneker.
He's left out of the history books, too.
I want to shout out for all the African Americans out there.
Banneker, look him up.
He was the real genius because L'Enfant quit.
He was an egomaniac.
Banneker and a few others finished the plans for D.C. for George Washington.
Oh, yeah.
History books, throw them away, kids.
Throw them away.
Garbage.
Interesting.
I mean, Casey talked about the Atlanteans going to Arizona to mine a certain type of lapis.
Yeah.
They were everywhere worldwide.
They were in touch with Lemuria and other settlements around the world.
It was all.
High civilizations, and there were indigenous tribes whom they left alone.
You know, just like we do, we used to leave them alone.
Now we went after the Yanomamo tribe in the Amazon.
Oh, wow.
And they all have cell phones and t shirts.
It's sad.
It broke my heart when I read the last tribes in the Amazon who were free from the modern world.
Well, they brought them into the modern world.
All right.
I don't think there's an indigenous people left, hardly at all, maybe a few.
Mm hmm.
It's very sad.
It is, yeah.
They don't want these shamans and people who are in communication with higher realms and other people in higher realms.
They don't want them around anymore.
Look at the Native American tribes and their reservations in America.
They really tried to rip the heart out of those tribes, they never succeeded.
They've kept their oral history, their traditions, their spirituality.
That's very important for America going forward, our Native American tribes.
Tribes are extremely important.
They've always known the truth of the world and about ET visitation and portals like Skinwalker Ranch, where the American West is very leaky.
There's a lot of gaping between dimensions.
Those are their legends.
Yeah, those are all their legends.
The ant people, the snake people, the Thunderbird from the sky.
Ford didn't invent the Thunderbird, it was from Native American.
They kept the logo, which was cool in the old way.
No, it's extremely important.
And that's why they tried to genocide them in the late 19th century.
And then someone said, no, give them some land.
And they did.
It's still unfair and it's horrible, but.
We gave them land and allowed a lot of those tribes to survive.
Some of the tribes were wiped out completely.
Andrew Jackson and the Seminoles and others were basically wiped out and pushed west, the Trail of Tears.
But I'm so glad, at least at the bare minimum, we allowed some of them to survive with their legends and their cultures intact on reservations.
And I'm part Cherokee myself, going way back on the Warner side.
Oh, wow.
Not the melon side.
Oh, no.
Melon side, I've had some spooky people do some work for me, and they said, oh, yeah.
King James II and Robert the Bruce.
Oh, yes.
Warner Stewart side, and then on the melon side, and they're like, it's really hard to go back and find the melon.
This is not 23andMe.
Us Versus Them Conflict00:15:01
These are ex intel guys.
The real thing.
We'll dig up your genealogy as best we can.
And so they're trying on that, but they're saying, oh, it's really hard.
You know, it's fascinating.
I'm glad you mentioned this because I was going to ask you about your mom, Catherine, and if she had any mystical inclinations herself coming into the middle of this situation with your dad.
She was very much her mother's daughter.
She came alive in the 60s during the Cultural Revolution, and she was reading philosophy and she knew a lot about her mother, theosophy, and Carl Jung.
I think my mom's read all of Carl Jung's work.
And Gurdjieff's work twice.
And she sort of nudged me in that, you need to read that.
And I didn't listen to her until like 25 years ago, and then I did.
So she was.
And she always gave me UFO books to read.
And she gave me Linda Moulton House's book, The Alien Harvest, because my mom owned some land on the Utah border in Colorado, and we had cattle that were mutilated.
Fascinating.
Yes, and I remember seeing a carcass when I was a teenager working on the ranch there.
I helped build a cabin, and I'm like, Look, and it was very decayed, so it didn't, there was nothing suspicious, but the specific cutouts with a laser scalpel and everything.
But I've heard a story and I can't confirm it, but I just wanted to tell you and your viewers, you know, I appreciate Linda Moulton Howe greatly, all the work she's done, I really do.
But I heard a story that says she was threatened in the 1980s to cover only the animals and not the human mutilations.
That's what I heard.
I can't confirm that.
I just want to let that out of there that it wasn't just animals being.
I wouldn't be surprised.
No, nor would I.
I think the FBI and the Army G2 and everybody was all over that shit, just like a down flying saucer somewhere.
I know the military, according to Greer and everybody, they got into the game too, doing my lab abductions and posing and doing some of that animal harvesting, which may have some cloning applications.
I queried a biochemist and I said, Will cattle, the reproductive organs of cattle, the mucus and the fluids and all that, could that be used theoretically in cloning?
And he said, Yeah.
It can be.
You know, this is where you get into stem cells and other things.
I'm not a biophysicist or a biochemist, but that makes some sense that they're doing a lot of genetic experiments.
We've all heard the stories, the Grays and others.
I think that's been going on since time immemorial, too.
Oh, there's no question about it.
Those contactees have had those experiences, and that goes back to Mac and some of those guys talking to them.
And it's just the story comes up over and over again.
Yeah.
My personal theory on World War II is that, and I have a scene in my book with Vannevar Bush, John G. Trump as a character, Admiral Boda, Teller, Hubble, Oppenheimer, they're all at this meeting, and they're like, shit, the Germans are getting advisory help from someone, and they're probably not the nice people.
And the story is the FDR met with the Pleiadians in 1937.
And they said, You've got a problem.
You've got to start gearing up for war because your buddies over here in Europe, they're getting help from the bad guys, the black hats.
We'll give you advice on your spirituality and all that stuff.
But I think I had this meeting in 1943, and I think they had had the Cape Girardeau crash, which Forrestal had seen human body parts, insect ETs, gray ETs, and that's what freaked him out.
He was going to flap his gums in 47 before they threw him out the window.
Oh, right.
But I think in World War II, these guys sat around the table with generals and admirals, and I have it with all these generals, and they said, We got to start doing something fast, or we're going to lose this war.
Because I really, by all accounts, if the Germans had cobbled together some nuclear weapons, that might have extended the war or given them a better surrender, or maybe even won the war if they got an assembly line of them.
And I think they really freaked out.
And I think the World War II was a game of catch up.
And I think the ETs probably didn't want us to use nukes for obvious reasons we've already covered.
But we were like, look, the Germans are going to use them.
We've got to drop them on somebody, the Japan or whatever.
And the ETs probably said, we don't want you to do it.
But if you do it, you need to understand the cosmic repercussions.
And I think Ike got a raw deal in his deals, if those stories are true, at Holloman Air Force Base.
I think he was dealing out of the Hobson's choice.
There might have been a positive group, but it might have been three regressive groups saying, we'll fool him, pretending to be.
And I think the human race, everyone's looking for the bad guys.
Folks, I got to tell you, it's all gray.
Yes, the Nazi SS, definitely black hats.
Yeah, the CIA has its group of black hats.
Yes, the military industrial complex, everyone around the world, the British royal family, MI6, they all have their groups of really, really, really dark black hats.
But when you average it out, it's all mud gray.
No one has a really white hat or a really black hat.
It's just our duality, it's other things.
And so, this us versus them thing is becoming problematic.
The further I go with my research, it's like in my book, my characters are just, they're astounded.
They're like, who are we fighting for?
Who's the good guys and who's the bad guys?
We don't know anymore.
Wow.
We have a job to do.
Let's do it.
Because I think the Allies are just a hair on the side of the lighter rather than the darker.
Right.
Nazis were aggressive.
And Americans and British and French and everybody were no saints.
We did raping and pillaging ourselves in war.
War is bloody hell.
And they covered it all up.
And the history books are junk.
And obviously, the Soviets literally raped Berlin in 1945.
They were brutal.
We're all bad.
So, this whole thing, the Nazis and everything, it's like, yeah, they were bad.
They were really bad.
But no one else is really good either.
Right.
And so that's a hard one because everyone wants easy black and white answers.
And in this UFO ET human history saga, which is massive, that's really hard to come by.
No question.
You've pointed that out yourself.
I mean, time and again.
It's like, no, you've got to try to understand the whole thing.
And then the Germans become a little less bad if you look at things from their perspective, but pretty bad.
And the Americans, not as good as we're taught.
It just is.
Interesting.
Well, you mentioned the cloning thing in there.
It's funny because it's come up a couple of times.
But here's something that's strange.
That might tie some of this together.
And I want your input on this because I haven't heard you talk about it.
But the guy that they've been handing the whole UFO coverage over to of late.
Oh, yeah.
That's Dr. Gary Nolan.
Oh, yeah.
And he's involved in Stanford X, the DNA hacking, and all that kind of thing.
So you've obviously.
You saw the interview with Tucker Carlson.
Yes.
Yeah.
And they giggled and they laughed and, like, oh, it's a mystery.
They either twisted his arm or said, oh, we're going to give you your own TV show or here's some money or whatever it is.
And he's like, sure, I don't know anything about it.
He says he doesn't know anything about UFOs, but I'll dig into it with Travis Taylor.
Yeah, this isn't redneck rockets on the History Channel.
They're going on board the UAP task force.
And these guys are smart guys in their own fields.
Taylor is an astrophysicist.
But come on, they're talking like children.
In the UFO, they're like, ah, maybe the aliens did this and they used rockets.
Stuff like that.
They're trying to dumb down and water down the narrative again with these approved scientists.
It's interesting you mentioned Taylor.
He wrote a book on The Secret.
I mean, it's kind of interesting.
He was smart.
I like that.
But I mean, rockets go back to ancient China and chemical fuel, liquid rockets go back to Goddard in the 1920s.
Come on.
Yeah.
They're picking and choosing.
Approved people from the box and obviously avoiding anyone in the disclosure arena or anyone truly open minded.
Nolan is part of this weird wave.
He did a lot of work with the CIA.
That's one big problem.
The other big problem is he claims to be John a contactee.
He does.
So now we have him, John Ramirez, is a CIA guy.
He's come out now and said, Well, I'm a contactee.
And the guy who started so much of this mess five years ago, Jim Semivan with TTSA, he's now saying, Well, I was abducted.
So now we have all these CIA agents, and the thing is, they all get abducted all of a sudden.
They're all contactees, John.
Well, they may have been abducted by the Greys and the Germans, you know, like Barney and Betty Hill.
You know, and everyone's like, well, how could that happen?
Well, it's easy.
In World War II, you hop aboard a flying saucer with the Greys, you traverse time to 1963, you abduct Barney and Betty Hill.
What's the big deal?
You got a Nazi SS guy on board going, this is really cool.
Now we know what to do, you know, and then go back and put some back in World War II.
It is the correct timeline.
This time travel stuff, it's all over the place.
Time exists all at once and it's always changing.
So, Yeah, Semi Van and Gary Nolan, maybe they were abducted by the Grays.
So what?
They don't seem to have very open minds.
They join this, you know, they work with the CIA, and Semi Van was a big time CIA.
Yeah.
They're on board the official approved team that, you know, the public can't handle this.
We have everything under control.
We'll decide on disclosure.
You'll get what you get.
And, you know, I'm sorry to cuss, but they're going to say, in 15 years, they're going to disclose.
30% of the truth, and they're going to say, Great, now you know.
What are you going to do about it?
Fuck off.
We're American people.
Go back to work and go back to school and go dig your ditches and be a good little debt slave and stop bothering us because there's nothing you can do.
And everyone's like, A guy got up and did a UFO lecture and he said, All you need to do, people, is go to the voting booth and we can change the world.
And I'm like, Are you out of your freaking mind?
All politics and presidents and senators are all corrupt.
My dad told me that.
They're not going to do anything.
You can't vote out.
You're just going to get another brand new moron in charge.
Right.
Disclosure has to come from the people.
We have to opt out.
Interesting.
Create small towns where they're like, well, we have free energy.
And the military come in and take it away.
And another town does it and says, sorry, we're not paying our taxes.
We're going to live off free energy.
You're going to have to put us all in jail.
And after a while, there are so many small towns.
Living with free energy, and oh, we don't need gasoline because we have this technology or whatever.
And we're opting out and we're not paying our taxes anymore.
And we're not going to vote.
And once you have enough of those small towns, there's not enough enforcement or prisons to do that.
That's something like that is going to have to happen organically, grassroots.
It's happening now.
There are villages in England, I think the United States, organic food back to the land, self sufficient.
It's very hard because supply chain and everything like that.
If we have another national crisis with a supply chain problem, I guarantee you, all my neighbors out in Virginia, they've all got stockpiles of seeds.
I've got a giant bucket of seeds.
We're going to have to go back and learn to grow our own food.
Amazing.
UFO disclosure has got to come from something like that because the military and the government and the CIA and the intel world, the corporations, there's no incentive whatsoever for them to disclose anything.
That's why I'm so shocked.
I'm sure you are that Chris Mellon and Louise Elzondo and others and Averell Haynes and everyone is doing this UAP dog and pony show.
Yeah.
Why?
Why now?
Who's pressuring them from the inside?
Why?
Did you see Chris Millen at his interview with Linda Motenhow in Spain?
Oh, yeah.
Yes.
I fell asleep.
Unbelievable.
I'm a little disappointed in Linda.
I wish she hadn't gone to the other side and shook hands.
I understand.
And in my recent paper that I sent to you, we do have to clasp hands or none of this is going to go anywhere.
Sure.
But people need to understand who we're clasping hands with and what their agenda is and how they think.
And they really think.
I've been around these people.
They're like the regular people are stupid and ignorant.
And all they care about is their six pack of beer, their glass of wine, and some cheese and their sports on television, soccer, football.
Neoconservative Agendas00:06:16
That's it.
They are not worthy to understand who they really are, how powerful their consciousness is, how spiritual we are, how transdimensional we are, and what our true history is.
What all this UFO ET stuff really means.
And they're like, now they've got a point.
You can't go to your average citizen and try to explain this.
They're not interested.
They don't care.
And they don't grasp it.
And it's, we've all tried.
I know everyone listening here, we've all tried.
And it's fruitless.
It's, I have Harvard and Yale friends.
They're like, I don't care.
I don't even, I don't care.
I don't want to know.
Right.
So, Then you have to look to the deep state and the military.
It's like, well, how do we inform a public that doesn't give a shit?
True.
And it makes me doubly sad.
And there has to be some type of cosmic event that levels out some of this playing field.
Because right now, it is super top heavy.
There's like a little tiny 0.0001% of the world that understands this in the disclosure arena some mystics and others, some monks in Tibet and everything.
And then there's this giant.
Slice of humanity that does, and then there's the 7.6 billion that does.
Yes.
Well, we're missing so much of the real history.
What's interesting about this for me, when I look at what they're doing with it, is they're bringing in these congresspeople, and I'm discovering this list: Gallejo, Gallagher, Gillibrand.
You know, we're getting all these people, Tim Burchett, and they're coming out and they're saying what?
They're saying, Guess what?
The UAP is the most important thing and the government's hiding for it.
Damn that government.
Of course, I'm part of the government, but damn that government.
So, what are they doing?
What are they telling those people?
And how are they so interested in UFOs?
I've never heard of them in terms of the UFO file, they never talked about it ever.
Well, Rubio's a neocon.
Some neocons are automatically read in.
Oh, okay.
My dad was not a neocon, but he was a conservative Republican.
He was a team player.
Yeah.
Ford was a good friend of him.
He has high level people as friends.
Rubio does too, to a certain extent.
You know, he may have been read in on that thin congressional UFO file, you know, whenever, way back when or whatever.
And he said, I want to be a part of this if you're going to come out.
This is the new next thing.
And senators and congressmen always want to be involved with the new big thing.
Always.
They want to polish their star.
And now it's a greasy rag, as I said in my paper.
They're polishing their star with a greasy rag that's tainted.
They don't care.
Money, fame, power, come on, folks.
It's the carrot on the stick for most of the world.
In every country, all their politicians, it's all about power, influence, and money.
Period.
And secrecy.
And secrecy, you know, it's like little boys in school.
We had our cipher codes.
Oh, you're not in our little group that knows something about nothing.
And so they love that.
That's sexy.
That's seductive.
Imagine my dad.
I can put myself in, kind of a naive guy, but he knew his piece.
Clever son of a bitch.
But he's like, Oh, they offered me to be a magic member.
Ooh.
You know, I mean, that's how it works.
I might have done the same thing had I been a younger senator or something.
They say, Hey, you want to work on the UFO file with the magic group or the room with Chris Mell?
I'd be like, Hell yeah.
And then they're like, Now you know you can't do anything about it.
Talk about it.
That's fascinating.
When you think about Chris and how you've known him all these years, you've been related to him.
He's your cousin, obviously.
There's that family background.
What do you make of what he's doing?
Boy, I've lost a lot of hours of sleep over this because he's family and I love him unconditionally.
Sure.
As a family member, as a friend, I knew his brother.
I mean, he.
I don't hate the guy.
We're different sides of the aisle, which is unfortunate.
But he spent a lot of his time in DC as an intel with the military and all this stuff.
But I think this is a crowning achievement.
He's 65 years old.
This is his thing.
And I know he had a UFO interest in high school and college, he had a UFO club in both.
He's obviously like me, but we just grew up separate tangents.
Out of boyhood, and we should have kept in better touch when we were younger.
But I think he sees this as an opportunity yes, some disclosure for the American people.
I mean, the world too, but let's just talk about the American people.
And this is the way to do it.
It's the official way, it's the right way.
We know best the conservative neocons of the world.
And that is a valid perspective from his perspective.
I don't agree with that.
I think there should be more transparency.
But he's obviously in the group of people around the table saying, Boy, if we let out the heavy duty stuff, people are going to panic, lose faith in religions, and commit suicide en masse and other protests, struggle, strife, everything.
And they may have a point.
John, just amazing information and insights.
Now stay right there and we'll go even deeper in part two on the UFO file, Cosmos Club, and the next decade of revelations.
Need for Transparency00:00:16
John's book.
Lion, Tiger, Bear, and the new one, Sanity Was a Luxury, about hidden technology through the ages, make for fascinating reading.
The conversation continues in part two at darkjournalist.com.
Please join us on Friday nights at 8 p.m. Eastern for the X series.