Dark Journalist and Grant Cameron dissect a alleged deep state coverup, arguing that figures like Tom DeLonge and Ron Pandolfi are pawns in a government-managed "limited hangout" designed to secure $760 billion in defense funding by framing UFOs as technological threats rather than extraterrestrial life. They claim the CIA edited Chase Brandon's Roswell book and orchestrated coordinated media releases on December 16th to control the narrative, utilizing contractors like Bigelow Aerospace to avoid direct responsibility while suppressing full disclosure of advanced civilizations or interdimensional portals. Ultimately, the hosts suggest this strategic disinformation campaign mirrors historical operations to maintain secrecy over classified material and prevent public panic regarding genuine alien contact. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, WAV2VEC2_ASR_BASE_960H, sat-12l-sm, script v26.04.01, and large-v3-turbo
Time
Text
The Disinformation Search00:14:38
I think we're good.
I think we're live.
Terrific.
Hi, everyone.
It's Dark Journalists, and it's great to be with you.
It's Friday night, and we have an amazing show for you because we're going to, as you know, I mean, we've been watching this whole situation unfold, and I call it the disinformation search.
We have an amazing show.
Oh, that's the echo?
That is the echo.
Hold on, everyone.
Perfect.
Well, that should be the end of that.
Thank you, Olivia.
Now, I think what we're seeing really is there's been this surge and the kind of wave of disinformation.
And I chart it really back to October where it started to surge and go off the charts.
And really, I chart it from the JFK Records release, which were going to be released and then were stopped.
And then there was a rolling release.
And then outside of that, we had strange postings on these message boards and these characters start popping up and they're sort of imitation WikiLeaks type things.
And then we've got the big push behind the Tom DeLong Academy to the Stars Academy.
Now, one thing I will say is that that had been building.
It wasn't too much of a surprise when that came out because the whole Secret Machines thing had happened the year before.
And DeLong had paired up with a New York Times bestseller to kind of roll this into a format.
And the format was particularly interesting, I think.
They were using this huge novel idea and they were drawing in regular ideas from the UFO front.
So at that time, both Alexandra Bruce and I were watching this and saying, What are they up to?
What are they building up?
To.
And so Alexandra Bruce from Forbidden Knowledge TV is here with us tonight.
Hello.
It's great to have you here.
And now we've got Grant Cameron coming on and he's got all of his info.
So he's just going to pop in here when he's ready.
But before he gets on, what I wanted to say is really in looking at this situation, I think the fascinating kind of pivotal point of the whole thing was when this New York Times article came out dealing with what they called this, you know, Glowing auras and UFOs, secret Pentagon program, and all this kind of thing.
And it was directly rolled out from the characters that were surrounding DeLong at Academy to the Stars Academy.
Now, one of the things that's interesting about this is DeLong himself really started to kind of fall out of the spotlight after the rollout, which didn't go so well, really.
He looked a little uncomfortable on stage, and suddenly he was surrounded by what looked like, you know, Langley.
I mean, it was really deep, deep.
Deep CIA people.
And this was a different kind of organization than the thing he was talking about a year ago, where these ultimate, you know, behind the scenes guys were going to help him, these generals and stuff.
Now he's just surrounded by hardcore intelligence people.
And these people, especially Elizondo, kind of came forward as the face of it after DeLong sort of didn't have such a great rollout with that in the Joe Rogan interview.
And the Joe Rogan interview was a disaster from the point of view that it just seemed like.
DeLong didn't know what he was talking about.
And so, therefore, somebody had been putting him up to it all along.
That was kind of the vibe that he put out.
And Joe Rogan went on the record with that.
You know, for better or for worse, whether you like DeLong or not, it was not a good performance.
And it was a jarbled thing about, you know, buy my stocks and I can't tell you about anything.
And the CIA guys are showing me everything.
I mean, it's this weird jumble.
And so, not a lot of good answers to questions.
But for some reason, there were certain kind of writers and people.
Who had been really established in the UFO field, like George Knapp and Leslie Kane, who got behind this early.
And it seemed to me that they weren't doing their usual due diligence, their usual good job.
These are the authors who got us to kind of be wary of the CIA in the first place and to not trust intelligence, not trust the government line.
And here they were saying, wow, all these CIA guys are with the long.
This is great.
And all of a sudden, I found what was particularly interesting, and this trend has continued up until last night's interview with Elizondo that Knapp gave for Las Vegas television.
It seems like you cannot mention aliens when you talk to these guys anymore.
Have you noticed that, Alexandra?
It's just a threat.
It's some kind of weird, ominous aerial threat.
You can't actually talk about off.
Or actual aliens anymore.
Well, that was the beef.
That was what made the New York Times story different from any other the implication of extraterrestrial.
That was historic.
That was absolutely history making.
And that was the difference between something that's just unidentified and swamp guess and a threat.
It's a being, or beings, a civilization, or many civilizations.
That now are classified as a threat and a new boondoggle for the military to get money and do space weapons.
It is.
The threat space weapons link is something they've been looking for since the 1960s.
And it is definitely something that JFK objected to.
And Reagan, they try to get Reagan in on this by showing him these ships that were flying around and saying that we need Star Wars for that.
And they got him behind SDI Star Wars.
But definitely, there's an agenda there for the space weaponry, and we're going to get into that.
But I want to really parse the line here a little bit.
Leslie Kane goes on CNN, and she's talking, and they say, So are we talking about aliens here?
And she says, No, we're talking about unidentified technology.
Watch the buzz terms.
George Knapp comes out and talks about this, and he says, You know, they asked him about Bob Lazar and how that was ET oriented, and he said, I don't know if there were any ETs involved.
Okay, also strange.
So he can't mention the ET part, but he can talk about the technological threat.
Doesn't make sense to me.
Well, from what I've seen, just from lesser things, for example, the Orlando bomber, Omar Mateen, his ex wife, he married twice before, whatever.
One of his ex wives married a Brazilian guy.
And so the story made it all over Brazilian TV.
So I got to see a version of the story that had not been censored by the FBI.
Although it's because the wife mentioned to the Brazilian reporters, well, the FBI told me that I'm not allowed to say that he was struggling with homosexuality, that he was gay.
And that he was having it, he was struggling with that.
The FBI would not let Omar Mateen, who shot and killed allegedly dozens of gay people, that they the FBI did not want Omar Mateen to be gay in any American media.
It was fine for the Brazilian and international media for him to be gay, but not within the US.
Why?
So they freak out on certain things and they control the media, like down to the word, like what you're talking about.
Well, that's exactly what this feels like, actually.
I'm glad you brought that up.
And what's fascinating about that.
Is the next example was Elizondo's watching again last night with NAP.
This is very strange.
Now, he also, in his different rollout interviews on CNN and Fox and all these other interviews, which are very odd because, again, they're secret, not secret.
He's saying, well, it was not classified, but it was secret, and blurring all these lines and doing what Walter Bosley called tap dancing in his interview.
And this is what Intel guys will do, but supposedly he doesn't work for the government anymore.
By the way, the real beauty question that I'm waiting for anyone to ask Elizondo is this.
Okay, you're not officially working for the government, but are you in any contracting role of any kind right now with the Pentagon, with the government, with the CIA, with the DIA, any of the government agencies?
That is the question that seems like nobody can land on this guy.
I don't know if it's in his rider or something, but I would love to see that question answered because I have a feeling there is a contractual relationship that still exists, and that's why those videos were allowed to flow out through him in the first place.
But one of the things that he did that I think is interesting is in this conversation, With Knapp, he rolled out his standard line, which is we didn't want to find out who was operating it.
We wanted to find out two things what it was and how it operated.
Okay.
Now that's ridiculous because you wouldn't care about what it was or how it operated.
You would care about that to a certain degree, but you'd care about who was sending it over here.
So it's not like you're going to leave that off the table.
That's a crucial part of the equation.
But that is a way of dancing again around the alien theme so that I can talk about an aerial threat.
This ominous, weird threat, but I can't actually specifically say it's an alien threat.
They've decided that this is the way to do it, to just call it a technological thing.
And then when Knapp ends the report, he says, Well, it looks like the Chinese and the Indians are after this technology and we should get there first.
But he won't say, Well, what technology?
It's just technology that invented itself there.
I mean, it obviously refers to an alien civilization.
Let's start there.
Well, I think that because there is a big.
There is a big debate about what exactly alien means.
You know, you have the evangelists say that they're demonic beings, they're fallen angels or whatever, and then you have other people who just say they're interdimensional, they're not necessarily from another star system, they're from another dimension here somewhere.
So that maybe it's because they can't really say where they're from.
I don't know.
You are dancing very close to this line.
This is exactly what it is.
And I've noticed this.
This is fascinating because a guy like Elizondo, okay, you are a CIA operator, you're a counterintelligence official, you are in deep with the Pentagon.
Okay, are you just going to be asking what it is and how it works and forget about who's operating it?
That doesn't make any sense.
What if it's North Korea with a nuke attached?
I mean, you want to know where it's coming from.
So that's a ridiculous line, which is just meant to dance us away from what he's actually saying.
Which shows me that this is all a large counterintelligence operation.
Right.
And that's what the specialty is.
Any investigation pretty much starts off with profiling.
And so if it's technology, they have to profile whose technology?
Who?
Who's the profile?
What's the profile of the creator?
This technology.
Right, right.
We can't just imagine okay, there's this incredible thing.
It outdoes all of our ships, it outdoes all of our planes and rockets and all that.
But we don't care about who made it.
We just want to know how it works.
I mean, it's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard in my life.
But this is his standard line.
And this is what he's getting away with talking to these people who know a lot better.
I mean, Knapp is an absolute expert in the subject.
So I don't know what's going on there, which is is there an agreement somewhere where they're saying, we'll give you more access, but don't ask these questions?
And that's completely subverting the journalism around it.
That's my biggest objection with this whole rollout.
I know that there's big marketing over the top on it, I know that there's disinformation agents embedded inside of it because.
Every time you look around, there's another CIA guy who's joining this.
So when we throw softball questions like, do you think that Bigelow is housing metal alloys?
I mean, how many crash retrievals have these guys done?
We have tons of material, obviously.
Metal alloys, sure, they're interesting, but I mean, that's one tiny piece of the stuff that we have.
So, this, you know, starting off with the UFO theme in a historical vacuum, the way that they've been doing in these stories, strikes me as absurd for anyone who has any background on the subject.
It must be just meant for, you know, somebody in the public who's not really paying much attention.
That would be my conclusion.
It's probably just an elaborate sort of terrain to establish in order to justify.
A new weapons program.
That's what everyone on my, all of my subscribers think that.
Now, how good do you think their campaign around this is working since December 16th?
In other words, if you were in charge of this rollout and you were looking at it now about a month and a half later, how well do you think it is going?
Well, I haven't been to his page lately, but the last time I checked, he had received over $2 million in investment.
And since then, also, I know that New Jersey and some other state are now approved.
So they're going through.
The proper legal channels to sell securities in their venture.
So, you know, and he, Tom DeLong, for his part, he's calling it a success.
But I must say that there's something, it's almost like a reverse, it's like an anti boy who cried wolf type of situation.
All right.
Because we're in a situation where the New York Times, like everyone calls, you know, the New York slimes and doesn't believe anything they say anymore.
We have like the newspapers of record, you know, all the news that's fit to print.
Writing a story that's alluding to aliens for the first time in history, and everyone's just kind of like, yeah, next.
You know, people, it's like people don't care.
My people are like, you're boring me to tears with this thing.
Can you like talk about something else?
I don't care about Tom DeLong.
People don't care.
Well, see, it's interesting.
I think that, well, certainly that is a big rollout.
You know, when they do that and they're saying, okay, you know, we are talking in the New York Times about aliens.
But I would say, you know, they've had things since this is part of the mind job that I think they're doing on the media with this.
Comes out and he says, we must study these things.
Eric Davis is on with Hal Putoff the other night on Coast.
And he says, these strange anomalies, we must study them.
You know, I mean, Donald Kehoe, 1957, right?
Sitting there with Mike Wallace, you know, we have to study these things.
They're in our skies.
So that's a 60 year old conversation.
No, no, no.
But as far as an official government.
No, no.
No, no, but they talked.
I mean, when they talked Blue Book, they did articles on it as well.
So, yeah, but they ended up calling it swap gas and something that's not worthy.
Cycles of Disclosure00:13:43
I guess my point is, I'm actually agreeing with you.
I'm going a long way around it.
What I'm saying is, there's two things that are going on in this conversation.
One is, they can't say alien.
Let's get that on the table.
Elizondo cannot sit there and say, an alien civilization is here.
He can only say, there's a threat technology, or we are not alone because this ball is spinning around up there, which is we found out.
Through Goddard's Journal, the video that they were showing in association with the New York Times article, you know, I mean, that really showed that that could very well have been footage from a gimbal camera that was doing reversals and stuff and was actually a jet fighter.
So that didn't prove anything.
What I'm saying is, it's amazing the audacity of the whole thing, which is we're going to put over this footage that isn't particularly good and we're going to come up with this story that doesn't have particularly good backup because we're talking about metal alloys that we can't show you.
And then beyond that, we're also going to You know, talk about this footage, and there's no footage expert quoted in the entire article who says, This footage looks authentic to me.
We went through all these different channels, you know, and showed this video to all these different people.
What did they think of it?
All that's missing.
So, to me, immediately, what it has is the glaze of a big story.
And then, whenever you poke around just a little bit, two inch deep, you know, the story goes away.
Elizondo's story about being disgruntled, we know that was ridiculous, right?
He's a counterintelligence agent.
His boss is John Brennan, the Drone King.
So, you know, this idea that, and by the way, the Drone King, this is fascinating.
Last week, the Drone King came out at an event and said, we need to study UFOs closely.
So, I guess.
Really?
Now, the drone master is in on it.
Maybe he felt that he was outed or something, but now he's talking about it.
Well, then you want to look at who is for it and who's against it, because what it appears to be is a schism.
You have a group that wants to talk about it and the other group doesn't want to talk about it.
And it seems like maybe the CIA does and the military doesn't, something like that.
Right.
Yes, there is a split, and it's some kind of a right-left split, I would say.
Because we had the whole Clinton rollout, which was happening.
It was embedded inside of this operation.
And we know that that goes back to the WikiLeaks emails that got released around it and her talking about UAPs every chance that she got.
It was almost kind of getting silly.
But I think what we're looking at, if we put these facts together, is we're looking at a rollout that they were attempting to do something.
And I think that aspects of it fell apart because, for example, the third video that was promised for January never materialized.
One, two, now Tom DeLong is putting up things about his poetry book.
There's no announcements about anything, not hearing zip about it.
And we have Elizondo cruising around on the outskirts doing these very controlled little interviews with people like Knapp.
And he kind of knows that when he's talking to Knapp, he's not going to get any tough questions.
I guess that's part of the agreement that's going on there because Knapp is saying to him, like, pretty simple stuff.
I mean, if I had Elizondo in front of me first, I'd ask him the question Do you have any kind of contractual relationship with the United States government?
One, that's easy.
Now, oh, I quit my job.
Yes, you quit your job.
However, you can quit your job and still have a contractual relationship.
Are you consulting?
Do you have any kind of financial interaction with them?
Yeah, you have a security clearance.
You have a security activation which says you can't reveal certain things.
That was put in place under John Brennan, the CIA director.
So, who gave you the tape?
Where are the simple questions?
How about.
You know, these questions, this would be the kind of thing.
Now, why is that missing?
Let's start there.
Why are those types of questions missing, right?
This should be absolutely.
Yeah, if he stole that stuff, he should be in jail for.
Right.
And I'm not saying he stole it, but it is odd that he has it, right?
Who gave it to him?
What was the protocol behind it?
Are those secret films?
You know, so we're in.
Whenever you get into these situations where things aren't explained, it's a deep state operation.
And you have to look at it that way.
And the minute that this thing popped up, you know, because I'd be happy to get behind the thing like to the Stars Academy if it was legit.
But frankly, to the Stars Academy, if it was legit, would probably be a nonprofit that would be based around research to create, you know, the right environment to get at the truth about UFOs instead of selling stock shares and t shirts and sneakers and pretending you're going to build a light of an air aircraft when it's just, you know, some kind of a connection with the United States of Lockheed Martin.
You know, so we get into these situations.
And when we dig just a little bit, these people, Act shocked when we bring up the thing.
Well, you know, I mean, Bigelow and Lockheed Martin have a joint venture together, you know, United Launch.
So are you answerable to Lockheed Martin on this?
And if you are, it's a problem because we've got, for example, in Catherine Austin Fitt's research, the DOD and HUD missing $20 trillion.
So they're missing $20 trillion, and who handles their records for the most part?
It's Lockheed Martin.
So if that stuff's disappearing into a black budget, then Bob Bigelow can't tell us anything.
Elizondo is just under orders.
So why are we sitting there having this kind of mime of a conversation, pretending you're getting at the facts with disgruntled Elizondo when that's all a front?
I mean, I think.
We're at least owed the truth in this field.
No matter how unusual the field is, or how obscure the details, or how much of a government shutdown and lockdown on the facts there has been, we still have a track record of over 70 years that we can point to and say, look, we know certain things.
And you're not going to approach us in a historical vacuum and say you're dealing with an aerial threat.
To me, it just strains incredulity.
Yeah, well, it's somebody's idea of an approach.
To this.
And this is an interview.
Well, this is something I think Grant Cameron would be really good at answering the specific question.
But he was never going to get to the bottom of that.
In another interview I saw with him, he noted the many parallels between, for example, Stephen Greer and Tom DeLong and how they were both groomed.
They both have so many things to like.
I mean, it's not evident on the surface.
You wouldn't equate Tom DeLong with Stephen Greer necessarily, but.
Actually, they have a lot in common, and that they were chosen and that they've been groomed to, I guess, to do disclosure the way they want it to be done, you know, limited hangout style, I guess.
Well, how do you rate this?
Like, versus, let's even say, the Stephen Greer stuff from 2003.
So the situation there is a little bit different.
You had these guys come out and say, Well, I was under security orders.
I couldn't say certain things.
You know, I was part of the military, and this is what my buddy saw.
And you've had people go on the record, but that obviously wasn't enough.
It's hard, you know, basically, that was 2001, the Disclosure Project, and that was a long time ago.
And not everyone was on the internet back then.
Not everyone is now, but I mean, much less, many less people were on then.
And it was very much ahead of its time.
You know, if it were like a national broadcast where everyone had to see, like if they did it during the Super Bowl or something, it would have had more of an effect, maybe.
Well, there's some talk that even during the Phoenix Lights, that that was an attempt at disclosure.
And that, you know, this may have been somebody like Lockheed putting up the very best up there to see how a crowd would react to it.
And they've been taking in material all this time.
What fascinated me when I got around this to the Stars Academy research, I was seeing people like Ron Pandolfi, who's the CIA senior scientist.
And he's been involved.
He basically was the UFO weird.
Desk and how they had their top scientists doing that, I don't know.
But he was their guy who was taking that kind of information on and digesting it.
And if you look from the 80s through the 90s, he's a major point man, very deep in it.
But also, he is someone who wrote the national intelligence estimate for the Iraq war and gave it to George Bush.
I mean, this is a very deep operator.
When you see someone of that level, you can only imagine what a CIA scientist knows with that kind of depth, that kind of knowledge.
And then he's writing the intelligence estimate.
For the Iraq war.
I mean, this is an incredible deep player.
So, what is he doing involved so deeply with the UFO subject?
It's a reasonable question.
You don't have to be a conspiracy theorist to think that something is amiss here when it looks like the CIA is running the disclosure project.
Yeah, absolutely.
It's amazing, isn't it?
Well, I also think that it shows you how important the subject is.
It's like it's as serious as it gets.
Yeah, well, what are they trying to pull off?
I guess this would be it.
And it is a problem.
You know, you ran Roswell, which was this movie in 1994 where they laid out.
You know, the entire case.
And it's funny to look at this whole trajectory of disinformation that's grown up around the subject in those 70 years.
This is how they bobbled the ball.
You know, they kept the secrecy back then, and then it just became a legacy.
And anytime any group tried to get in and get it, big problems happened, including with presidents, you know.
And it was always the protection around that UFO file.
So now we get into a situation in the 21st century where, you know, it's just a given.
Everyone sort of knows that the UFO is a covered up subject, but they don't know exactly what it is.
And this is what I think they're playing with.
They're trying to find this middle ground to take advantage of that lack of knowledge.
Well, you've pointed out very interesting cycles of disclosure that have happened in the past.
I think the most recent, besides this one, which was big in the New York Times, was in the mid 90s.
And as I was writing the story, I stumbled on something that you had shown me about that when Del Stevens.
Had brought to us through an associate of his who was pretty much almost like the Argentinian version of him.
He had been a pilot, a military pilot, and stuff.
And somehow he had gotten his hands on this information about Gorbachev and his wife, Raiza, and how she had had this kind of strange pregnancy that was a painless delivery and then this super.
Genius, gifted child who basically told them that he was from the Pleiades.
And as a result, it appears, because of Gorbachev and I guess it was Reagan and then Bush won at that time, the United States and through the UN, they were looking at a major in 1988 89, they were looking at an actual to try to really manage disclosure at that time.
And it was all because Gorbachev had a hybrid baby.
Yeah, it is incredible.
It's such a wild story.
Yeah, the story of Aldes, A L D E S, if anyone wants to go check that out, and Wendell Stevens.
And I wrote a story, but I linked to it in today's article.
What's amazing is Wendell Stevens, he was somebody who was such a deep researcher, and that he had such faith in this guy, but the story was so off the charts that Gorbachev and his wife had this kind of special supernatural child, and that he was somehow associated with this ET awareness, which is where Gosnuss.
And that new openness in the Soviet Union came from.
And of course, Gorbachev had this meeting with Reagan where they negotiated the first nuclear deal.
Yeah, it was the baby who told him to do glass mast.
They, you know, I mean, it is.
It's a wild story.
I agree with you.
But there are those stories that are out there.
The other one that you ran in there was Voronezh, which is also a Russian story.
And related, the baby said that those are his people.
Now, see, that's interesting.
And Voronezh is a real case where.
These craft landed in this public park in Voronezh, Russia.
And it was near a nuclear plant, which I found out recently.
I never knew that.
And there are so many people from that incident, and I've gotten letters from them who grew up after this incident, but they were there either as children or as teenagers.
And they did one documentary, which was catching up with them 20 years later to talk with them about the experience.
But the whole thing is in Russian, so I wasn't able to really figure out what was going on.
But it is fascinating.
And one of the things I remembered is that in that, I found a Nightline report.
Report on it where Ted Koppel is talking about it, and he has an interview with the police chief in Voronezh who talks about, Yeah, this thing happened, these beings came out of this ship, and you know, it was a daytime event there in the heart of things.
Holding the Secret00:03:47
I mean, what do you do with that?
What if that were to happen in like Central Park or something?
I guess this conversation would be really different.
Wow, it's like to put Ted Koppel in that kind of an investigation.
It's like Ted Koppel is the alien there.
I mean, exactly.
So, what we're gonna do, I have a message.
Grant Cameron might be joining us late.
So, Olivia, if we get questions early, we can handle them now and then have him take us out instead of the other way around.
So, everyone, if you have questions, feel free to put them out.
One of the things I think is interesting, and I want to get around to this, are these levels of disclosure and what happens, what's supposed to happen.
This whole idea has become almost mythical, let's face it, as if the government telling you something is going to change how you perceive something.
And, you know, that's really surrendering to a kind of Orwellian mind control, let's face it.
And, you know, I mean, it would be fascinating.
There's no question about it.
But this almost spiritual worship type thing that they're putting up around this idea of disclosure, they're not even using the word UFO disclosure anymore.
It's just like, you know, disclosure.
You're talking about what God disclosure?
What is it that you're talking about there?
You notice this cult of disclosure has popped up in the past couple of years.
Well, because there really are a lot of mysteries about.
The human condition and what we are, who we are, what we're doing here.
And I guess people, you know, it's endless, you know, the why.
And so, yeah, disclosure about that is something I think everyone would want.
Do you think, though, they're taking advantage of this idea?
Do you think that disclosure is being promoted by the same groups that are rolling out to the Stars Academies and the New York Times articles?
That's what it looks like.
I mean, that's what a lot of people think.
When you have a national security state the way that we do in the United States, and when the stakes are so big, because it can't be stressed enough the prospect of an advanced civilization that can travel with energy systems that are not petroleum,
and when you have the United States pretty much controlling the world economy because the world economy still runs on petroleum and the petrodollar.
It's vastly threatened by a totally different energy paradigm, let alone another superpower that's so much more powerful.
But just the energy part alone is enough to just keep the whole thing under wraps.
But obviously, it's limited.
It can't last forever.
It's just buying time.
Yeah, they're kicking the can down the road.
So you're saying at some point they're going to have to acknowledge the fact that there are these beings out there and there are these other civilizations that have been visiting here.
But they've been holding the secret for that long.
And they've, you know, they've killed to keep the secret.
They've dumbed down people.
They've ruined reputations.
They've done all these things.
So can we look to them to get the truth?
No.
Absolutely not.
I mean, the thing is well, you know, these people are all human beings.
You know, the guys, you know, Putoff and the other guys, they might have their things that they're discontented about, about having worked for the government for various things.
But on the other hand, I think that they're contractually bound to stay on that side of things.
Killing to Keep Secrets00:04:57
So.
Yeah, you can't really, you know, everyone's knee jerk is, of course, not to believe those guys.
As talented, gifted, smart, whatever as they are, it's who they represent that.
Yeah, yeah.
You know, this is interesting.
Let's talk about their internecine warfare, okay?
So after the rollout goes a little awry, Pandolfi shows up and he says, This is all a hell put off Scientology fantasy.
I don't sign on to this.
This is just Hal Put off trying to plug in his Scientology worship into our work.
And so they start firing at each other.
And then it doesn't let up either.
So this is an interesting little tuggle and tug of war that they have going on.
Obviously, one group that was doing this now wants to pull away from this other group, which came out with this kind of like stooge version of disclosure.
It's bizarre, you know, because it really didn't seem like we were ever going to see anything like an attempted disclosure.
Official disclosure again.
And, you know, here in the middle of like one of the most surreal political years in US history, here it is again.
It might be a distraction.
I don't know.
I don't know what to make of it.
But, you know, I can't wait for Grant to show up because I think he's been at this for a long time.
This is what this is about.
And he is going to be with us.
I'm going to ask Olivia.
You've got, have you got questions?
Yeah, my computer's got the beach ball.
Oh, it does, it does.
Okay.
You can shut down and restart.
Okay.
I'm going to lose all the questions then.
No, no, no.
If you save them all, they're in your notes.
They'll be there.
It's okay.
They're not going anywhere.
But you can literally just shut it off.
There's an unbelievable menace to Olivia's incredibly brilliant laptop.
But it is, you know, I have to say, this is a good time for me to announce this, which is we're going to be putting out a show, and Alexander's aware of this, on February 15th, which I think is the most important show that we've done to date.
And it is information that I think is vital to the UFO issue.
And I think it's going to really shake some things up.
We're going to release it on the 15th with the press release, and there's going to be lots of follow up information involved.
And that's something that Alexandra and I are working on.
And, you know, this is going to be a very special occasion.
And I don't think I've been around these stories for a long time.
And the information and the depth of information that we got on this, I think, is remarkable.
And that will be coming out on the 15th.
But I will say that since I've been working on the story, there's been incredible, and I do mean incredible, technological difficulties.
Now, this is what Catherine Austin Fitz calls shadow work, but Alexandra, you're used to that.
Yeah, it's just, it's been weird forever for me.
But it does seem that it's when you're doing certain types of work, such as when you were doing the work around the 2016 election.
It seemed like in the fall of 2016, bam, bam, bam, hack, hack, hack.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, definitely.
I mean, yes, at different times.
You know, I don't want to sound like, you know, my car broke down and it was the aliens.
I'm not going to say that because you do hear people.
I listen when you do that kind of work.
Uh, the truth is there's a couple things to keep in mind.
One, things happen all the time anyway, but when you do any kind of journalistic endeavor, especially on the independent side, and you're onto something, then you can really expect that kind of shadow work.
And in the case of someone like Catherine Austin Fitz, forget it.
Um, she's somebody who you know has somebody rebuild her laptops regularly because she's under that kind of attack.
But now we have this other weird attack, which is about Bitcoin because we have these Bitcoin miners.
So, we have all these sites that you used to go to where they really flood you with ads and they don't flood you with ads anymore.
And you go, well, what's going on here?
And all of a sudden, we find out that they have this little tag that they put in your computer and it sucks the resources up in order to generate more Bitcoin equations.
And so, in fact, your computer is slowing down.
And so they came out with this thing saying that actually Bitcoin is using the energy resources of Peru right now.
You know, basically a country that size.
So, this is a problem, and I think we're going to have to deal with it.
You know, you're going to have so many different.
Bitcoin Energy Crisis00:15:09
Oh, there he is, Grant.
How are you doing, Daniel?
How are you?
Just fantastic.
Yourself.
Oh, it's great to have you with us.
Cooper.
We've been talking about all your favorite issues here.
Hi, Grant.
How are you doing?
I'm good.
Grant, we're going to get right into it with you.
And I do want to say that around this story, around the.
To the Stars Academy story and around the New York Times disclosure story and all the rest of it.
You've done incredible research, and it seems like all your research leading up to then is just this body of work that people can really draw from to understand the characters and the players that are involved.
And that's really the key thing.
You know, there are always these different conclusions that people can come to, but you want the real hardcore research, and that's something that you have going on there.
And I highly recommend that people check into that.
My first question for you is.
So, we've seen this disclosure tossed around quite a bit, especially since the New York Times article.
Disclosure versus confirmation.
What are we looking at here?
Okay, the confirmation idea came from Bob Bigelow, who now appears to control the whole UFO story.
Bigelow did a bunch of interviews.
I went back and looked at all his interviews that he'd done since about 2006, and he basically spelled this all out.
Like, he basically, if you listen to his interviews again, you go, holy cow, he's actually talking about this.
And in 2013, George Knapp is interviewing him on Coast to Coast, and George says to him, Are you in favor of disclosure?
And he said, No, I'm not.
And so he said, We need confirmation.
What we need to do is get confirmation.
We need to confirm to the people that the story is for real UFOs are real.
There's a mystery going on, and stop at that.
You leave the alien bodies, you leave all the rest of it on the sidelines.
You don't deal with that.
And he said, So first you get confirmation.
And then years later, then you get disclosure.
So basically, to me, confirmation is always an idea that comes from Bigelow in terms of some people would call it sort of like the small d, the gradual disclosure, the sort of leaking the thing out, almost like the whole idea, I guess, would go back.
The theory would be the Brookings Institute report from the early 60s that we can't just drop this thing into the public.
We have to do this slowly.
And what I did when I looked at the issue, because I've been in this issue.
Since 1982, 83, when Bill Moore was involved.
And I was involved with Bill Moore.
Bill Moore actually helped me out with some of the investigations I was doing back then.
So to me, this is just a rerun of the same story.
This is the same thing.
And it's actually the same characters.
The same characters were there in the 1980s.
And so the disclosure thing, what I say when I lecture to people, I say the thing you've got to remember with this is that people keep using the word disclosure.
And from everybody I've heard, There will be no disclosure if they want to disclose.
They'll stand the president up on you know in a press conference or they'll stand up the CIA director and they can have it all over in 15 minutes.
They can get CNN, Fox News, take them, show them the bodies, the crafts, whatever, and it's all over.
So they're not disclosing, and I don't think anybody in any way they're going to disclose, but they're also covering up either.
Because if they want to cover up, I'm from Canada, and a lot of people forget the fact that this is an American story.
This does not happen anywhere in the world except for the United States of America.
You know, you got leaks, you got whistleblowers, you got All this kind of stuff.
I'm in Canada, and because I did the US presidents for so many years, people would say when I'm in the States, they say, So what's going on in Canada?
And I'd always say the same thing.
I haven't got the foggiest idea because the Canadians just shut up.
They don't talk about it.
And I knew what happened in the Canadian government in 1950 to 54.
They basically shut the door in 54 and they've never talked about it.
So if you want to cover up, you don't send whistleblowers and talk about Area 51 and all this kind of stuff.
You basically shut up and the story will go away.
So I'm saying they're not disclosing, they're not covering up.
They're doing something in between, and that's this sort of confirmation.
That's, I think, what you saw on December 16th.
You saw confirmation.
So, this was a thing where my impression is just my impression what they're doing is they're trying to go back to 1947, and they're saying what they should have said in 1947 yes, something's going on, we don't know what it is, and this sort of thing.
And they stop at that.
So, you see, Tom DeLong is pulled out of the story because he's got you know, he was running this conspiracy website.
And he has all these bizarre ideas about what aliens are about and all this kind of stuff.
So they pull him out of the story and they just do confirmation.
Nobody's talking about aliens.
Nobody, and I believe they've been told nobody's allowed to talk about aliens.
So Leslie Kane is the embedded journalist.
She says, No, we're not talking about aliens.
We're just talking about unidentified.
And Elizondo comes up, he says the same thing.
And so it's a script.
They're all basically reading from a script, which is what you see if you see the October 11th event.
The October 11th event, I think the day after he.
Either tweets or he puts it on Facebook.
And he said, everything that was said at the conference was planned months ago.
So here you have Alazan quits, walks out of the Defense Department, walks in, and his script is all written for him.
It's the whole thing.
And so it's almost like I don't know how long you've been following this story, but 1988, they did exactly the same thing.
At the end of the Reagan administration, they run this UFO cover up live.
And everybody, I knew a lot of the people that were in it, and they would all say the same thing.
This was the worst thing they ever did.
We had to read off cue cards and it was horrible.
And I had my story out.
Yeah, this is this big television special, two hour television.
And this is where they introduced Area 51 six months before Area 51 was actually.
George Knapp did the story six months later, but there they had on a flow chart.
They had Area 51 on a flow chart, and they had the DIA parapsychology unit on a flow chart seven years before it was declassified.
So they sort of dropped this into these flow charts.
But everybody's reading off a script.
And I remember Bob Emmenager.
I don't know if you know the Bob Emmenager story.
This is 73.
Yeah, 75.
I think he did a movie and a book.
So it's called UFO Past, Present, Future.
Yes.
And in discussions I've had now with.
Eric Davis, he said to me, This is the second disclosure.
Okay.
Bob Emmenager's was the first.
And Bob told this story.
First, I'll tell you, in 88, he gets brought into this UFO cover up live to tell his story from the 1970s.
And on the thing, he's just furious.
I mean, he knows his story backwards and forwards, what happened in the 70s, and he's forced to read off the Hukai.
And he's a very humorous sort of guy.
This is the Holloman Air Force Base story.
Yeah, this is a story about the supposedly UFO lands.
And aliens get out and they move the craft to a hangar and stuff.
And Bob's allowed to go onto the base.
He's allowed to talk to people.
And he actually has a film in his possession for a short period of time.
And he actually puts eight seconds of that film in the documentary, which I'll mention in a minute.
But he's on the 88 cover, this thing, and he's just furious because he's got to read off a cue card.
So they're doing a practice run.
And he's a real comedy guy.
He just watches Comedy Channel.
He doesn't care about UFOs.
He couldn't care less about UFOs.
And so he's reading off the thing, and it says, Oh, and the ship landed, and the door opened out.
And out came Sasquatch.
And the guy yells from behind, Rita, what's on the cue card?
He's like, he's joking, you know, he's trying to change the script and they won't let him change the script.
But back in the 70s, and this is what Eric told me, was that in the 70s, he was brought in and this was the first sort of disclosure.
And so I said to Eric, I said, well, does Hal Put Off agree with this?
And he said, yeah, Hal agrees with this.
So this was their idea.
And Bob's was very, very direct.
It was basically, he didn't believe in UFOs.
Until he was actually brought to Norton Air Force Base.
And that's when they sort of said, We want you to do these eight documentaries, and then we want you to do a documentary on UFOs, and we want you to hide it under the other eight documentaries.
And that's when he went, What?
You mean it's for real?
Like he just couldn't believe it.
He said, And he used to bug his wife all the time, and he'd say to his wife, Ah, Margaret, reading that garbage about the alien had my baby and stuff.
And so he was able to go anywhere.
He told the stories about going into the Pentagon without signing in.
He could walk right into the Pentagon.
Meet with Coleman, the former guy that the public relations guy for Blue Book, and he told this whole story.
So, what Eric was telling me was this was the sort of the second disclosure.
This is what they're doing, the same sort of operation they did in the 1970s.
And with the Bill Moore thing, absolutely identical.
I mean, it's absolutely identical to what's going on now.
And that's why I wrote the book called Managing Magic.
This is a story that I hate.
I would love to get in it to me.
It's like a bad marriage or like a drug addiction or something.
It's like, I'm going to do this story one more day and then I'm leaving because I just made it right there.
You know, I have disclosure for one more time.
Yeah, but it's sort of like I get dragged into it.
And the way I got dragged back into it is I've done the book on Hillary Clinton and her interest in UFOs.
And then I thought I was out.
And then Tom DeLong comes along and he had this bizarre idea about aliens, which I thought should be countered.
But the thing that really got me was when I saw how it actually set up, I said, This is exactly what they've done.
All they've done is changed the script from Bill Moore.
To Tom DeLong.
Because most people, even in the media, all the people that I've seen that are talking about it have got the one key figure wrong.
They say, oh, Tom DeLong set up this operation.
He did it.
Absolutely.
If you do not understand this, you're out to lunch.
Tom DeLong did not set up anything, Tom DeLong set up a platform.
But Tom DeLong got invited to a Skunk Works barbecue.
They knew he was into UFOs.
They knew he had the conspiracy website and they set him up.
They brought him to this thing and he was to introduce the president of Lockheed Skunk Works.
So, why would you bring in a rock star to introduce the head of Lockheed Skunk Works unless you know he's into UFOs?
So, they bring him in.
He says, Well, I'll come if I can have five minutes with the president.
And they say, Okay, fine.
So, then they bring him, they allow him to go to Skunk Works.
He's in the security, in the secure facility, and all this kind of stuff.
And he's talking to the head scientist and one other guy.
And Robert Weiss, who's the head of Lockheed Skunk Works, wasn't in the room at the time.
But he's telling the cargo cult theory what he thinks with UFOs and stuff, and he thinks he's convinced them almost like Bill Moore.
It's like I always talk about these like messiah figures who believe that they've got it understood, they're the guy who understands how the whole thing works, and the government is not working with us because we're so smart.
That's the way.
So, what they said to him was as soon as he told the cargo cult theory, they said, We've got two guys we need you to meet in Washington, and these were two sounds like CIA people outside the Pentagon.
And what they did with Bill Moore was the same thing, Bill Moore.
When he wrote the book Roswell, the Roswell incident, and that's what started the whole thing, he had written the first book on Roswell.
Before then, nobody knew what Roswell was.
He made it famous.
They sold like a million books or whatever.
Suddenly, this is a guy who's not just talking about Mr. X and all this kind of stuff.
He's actually got names of people at Roswell, and it looked like he was suddenly an authority that the media could actually believe he had some hard evidence to prove that Roswell had happened.
So he goes on the book tour and he gets the phone call.
The first phone call is probably from Richard Doty.
From Albuquerque, after a radio show, he's at the end of the radio show, they say, We got one call.
This guy wants to talk to you.
And he said, You're the only guy that knows what you're talking about.
And Bill Moore, like DeLong, had an ego.
So he said, Yeah, you're right.
And then about seven days later, he gets a second phone call, who I say is from a guy, but he's a Lieutenant Evans.
He was a DIA guy from Offutt Air Force Base.
Makes the second phone call.
And this is the DIA Falcon who phones him.
He says the same thing.
He says, You know, you're the only guy who knows what you're talking about.
And of course, Bill goes, Yeah, that's right.
I'm the only guy who knows him.
And that's the hook.
They pull him in and they start setting with Bill Moore.
They introduce him to this guy.
And next thing you know, he's got 24 people who are all dealing with him and they're feeding him material.
So it's exactly the same thing Tom Blom.
Everybody thinks he set it up, but he gets invited to Lockheed.
They send him to CIA.
CIA says, We got some people, somebody we want you to talk.
They send him to NASA.
He goes to NASA.
Then NASA sends him to the West Coast to Ames.
He's talking to a guy there.
They set him up with a general, and this is where it works.
Like, he didn't set up any of these people.
He's the guy.
Would you say that Stephen Greer is a similar sort of?
Yeah.
I have, when I wrote the book Managing Magic, I have five that I sort of point out that I call them the magicians.
And there's the magicians who hand out the material.
It's like a field where it's not just UFOs, it's paranormal phenomena, and it's all related, like psychic phenomena.
It's all this consciousness stuff.
So, you have the magicians.
I had 14 magicians, I think, who are the people who are feeding the material.
And then you have the five messiahs.
And they all have ego.
They have to believe that they are the chosen Messiah that is called to bring disclosure to the world.
And Stephen Greer is the same sort of thing.
So Stephen's claiming he's got 540 sources.
Bill Moore had 24.
Tom DeLong probably has 20.
It's the same thing.
These people are feeding this material to them, and they believe that they're sort of running the government, that the president doesn't know, but they know, and these people are feeding them.
And my basic contention is that there's nobody walking around who isn't working for the government.
You don't just walk out like Elizondo.
You just don't simply walk out with the With the videos and start handing them out.
You don't get the plans for the atomic bomb and walk out and start telling people how to build an atomic bomb.
I think all these people are set up.
That's my impression.
Well, let's go with that.
That's fascinating, actually.
I totally agree with you.
It's interesting, though.
One of those ringmasters from behind the scenes who's been operating all the way through the Moore period right up to this DeLong to the Stars Academy is Dr. Ron Pandolfi.
Yeah.
Well, he was early.
He was one of the early birds.
Like when I wrote up the Avery, which they called them the Avery under Bill Moore.
Pandolfi started in 1983 at the CIA, the same year as Jim Semivan, who is running the Tom DeLong operation.
So they both started the CIA at the same time.
So he was one of the early guys.
Authorized Leaks00:15:35
The main guy that was the CIA guy at that time was Dr. Kit Green.
And so the way I pointed out is the CIA has a weird desk, and now they're trying to tell me it's called the vault.
And I said, nobody inside the CIA is calling it anything.
They've got some sort of scientific, you know, it's a scientific technology or whatever, you know.
I know someone who knew Kit Green from General Motors because he was working, he did something at General Motors for a while.
And now he's at Wayne State University.
So he's been all along.
And that's what I think if you ever heard the Chase Brandon line, he said, you know, when you work for the CIA, it's sort of like Hotel California.
You can check out, but you can't leave.
And everybody continued.
So there's been three, I say there's been three major figures.
Ron Pandolfi is the guy who's running this sort of weird desk, CIA UFO desk.
Whatever you want to call this thing that handles this kind of material.
He's done it since 1983.
Kit Green ran it from 1969 to 1983.
And before him was a guy by the name of Arthur Lundahl.
And Arthur Lundahl was a CIA guy who ran the National Photographic Interpretation Center in Washington.
That's where they analyzed all the U 2, all the SR 71, all the spy photographs.
And he was the guy that did the original analysis.
He had a Navy photographic lab when they did the Robertson panel.
He did all the analysis for the Robertson panel.
And then they gave them a CI lab.
They said, Oh, you did such a good job on the Navy thing.
They gave them the CI lab where they analyzed all the stuff.
So you have these three main figures who sort of are the, I guess you'd call them the guys with the keys, the point man in the CIA, the guy who runs the operations.
Because I see the CIA as the people like the DIA collects all the material, and the CIA sort of does the psychop things where they're sort of controlling, managing the story, whatever you want to call it.
And so Ron came in early.
Into that thing, but all of them are there.
Like John Alexander was there.
John Alexander, the program that I exposed, they used to call it.
I remember if you remember back, the New York Times had done this story called the UFO Working Group.
And I got fed a document that said it was called the Advanced Physics Theoretical Working Group.
And so I gave a lecture.
I remember giving a lecture in Eureka Springs, Arkansas.
And I put just the front part that showed it was top secret restricted and what it was called and stuff.
And immediately John started saying, Well, we had this Advanced Physics Theoretical Working Group.
We called it that so people couldn't get it through an FOIA.
And that was started in 1982.
It ran till 82 to 83, John said, till 1988.
So, John was there very early on as well.
And he was like, he's a real key figure because he was not so much with Bill Moore, but with NIDS and all this kind of stuff.
But you'll see Kit Green was there from the beginning.
John Alexander was there from the beginning.
Hal Putoff was there from the beginning.
All these guys.
And the way I look at it is the Avery people have this idea that it's a sort of an elusive government group.
And it wasn't.
It was a group that Bill Moore set up.
And he just gave these guys bird names so that he and Jamie Chandray, who was his partner, Could talk about these guys on the phone.
And he gave them the bird names.
And then eventually, these guys, there was a just before UFO cover up live, they had a big meeting, secret meeting.
They all were brought just before that presentation to, I think, outside of Dayton, Ohio.
And they were all told they had these bird names and stuff.
So these guys knew each other.
And if you're like a high level guy, say for like Kit Green, I'd heard that Kit Green, he was this physiologist, and he was very interested in the whole thing, but he could never get read in.
On the autopsies, they would never read him in on this sort of thing.
So, they had bits and pieces of the story, and they're like guys who collect wild game animals.
They're working with each other, they're talking to each other.
And so, wherever the money is, or wherever the story is, they move there.
So, now Tom DeLong has got the money, he's got the story, he's got the inside connections.
They all know to go there.
So, he starts.
Jim Semivan finds out about him.
Jim Semivan goes and says, In April of 2016, what are you doing?
Can I help you?
And it's the old thing.
CIA is like, you know, you're doing a movie on the CIA.
How would you like to come to CIA?
How would you like to go for a tour?
We like to help you out.
And so you have two chances or two options.
You can either kill you, you know, everybody that saw the first atomic bomb detonate, you kill them all, or you try to manage the story.
You say, well, it was an army or a munitions depot blew up.
You sort of cover it and you manage the story and you get people going in your direction.
So that's Ron's sort of job.
And he's become, I guess, six presidents if you believe the story that he briefs the president.
He's done six presidents.
Kid Green has openly stated that he briefed presidents, and so did Arthur Lundahl.
So these were the key guys that are the CIA guys.
But of course, you have all these other organizations that are providing gathering material and this kind of stuff.
Wow, it's fascinating.
And Pandolfi, I think, is such a key figure when we get into this because he's involved in these big deals with Hughes Electronics in the late 90s.
He has to give congressional testimony there.
He's involved with the intelligence estimate around the Iraq War.
I mean, You know, a top scientist at the CIA, you know, and this guy is somehow consigned, you know, into this UFO desk idea.
And then Elizondo, who's a major counterintelligence figure and he's fighting terrorists in the Middle East and he's fighting drug running in South America, he gets assigned to the lowly UFO desk.
This is the thing that I'm starting to see here and wondering, you know, when we look at a guy like Elizondo, what's really going on here?
Well, Elizondo, if you listen to the early interviews with, Tom Belong, he basically knew this guy for a long time.
I mean, they're making it sound like, you know, Elizondo got upset.
You know, the program ends in 2012, and then he suddenly gets upset and he decides he's going to clear out of there and he's going to go to, now they're saying he's moved to this town where To the Stars, the academy is situated.
But it's the same old thing.
It's like if you look at Pandolfi's important because he's the only operational guy, everybody else is retired.
And that's a key element to this whole thing once you're retired, It's like you move from the white world to the black world, and then everything changes.
You can sort of go out there.
Nobody can really link you back to the CIA.
Ron has to be a little more cautious in that he can't make any public statements, so he uses his rhymes and riddles.
He goes through Dan Smith.
He puts stuff, it's all plausible deniability.
And you find that over and over again, even with in 1975 when Emmenager was telling me the story with Arthur Lundahl.
And Arthur Lundahl was operational at the time, he was this big CIA guy.
And they leaked the story to Bob Emmenager about them channeling this AFA alien in 1959.
Where this Navy intelligence guy is taught how to channel this alien, and he goes riding back to Art Lundahl, and they channel this alien, and this flying saucer goes flying by the window over top of the Capitol.
And this story is told on UFO Cover Up Live by Robert Friend, who ran Blue Book.
He was called in two days later and said, This is the most amazing thing that he gets brought in.
So they tell this story.
So Bob Immenager is taken to the National Photographic Interpretation Center in Washington at the time before they tore it down, and it was in the slums of Washington.
This is they hit this building so the Russians would never figure out where it was.
It was like in the absolute slums of Washington, and the people around the building used to think that they were printing money because they couldn't figure out why there was so much security around this building.
Well, this is this high security building.
So when he went there, he said to Art, Can you go on camera and tell the story?
He said, No, I can't go on camera.
They said, Well, why not?
He said, You don't understand.
I'm on duty.
And that's what you got to remember with Ron Pandolfi.
He's the operational guy.
The rest of these guys are all sort of retired.
And even though I brought up some questions, you mentioned Elizondo.
So, Elizondo has a 2012.
Now he's admitted that in 2013 they got refunded.
Now, nobody knows where the funds came from, but it never stopped.
I mean, and people are still talking about the fact it stopped in 2012.
He said they got new funds.
He trained the new guy when he left.
And then they had this bizarre story where Mattis, who's his buddy, this guy saved him in Afghanistan.
Actually, Mad Dog Mattis, the defense secretary.
Yeah, he saved Elizondo's life.
And that somebody, there was a story that three months later he didn't know why he'd resigned.
And I'm going, Come on, this doesn't make any sense at all.
I mean, you walk out, and then the question was, how do you get the videos out?
So, Elizondo quits.
The next day, he's being interviewed by Leslie Kane the very next day.
Wow.
And so, if you listen to the old Tom DeLong interviews, Tom DeLong says, I was introduced to this guy, and I would deal with him, and I was never, I was told I would never, ever be allowed to use this guy's name.
And I had to call him Mr. L.
Well, that's Lou Elizondo.
So, he knew him before.
And so, to me, even though Hell Put Off has just not done an interview, And said, This is there was no acclimatization thing going on here.
I believe it is.
It's like you're going to leave, you're going to retire, you got this operation to do, just like Jim Semivan.
Jim Semivan retired in 2008 after 25 years at the CIA.
What I was told is that when he left, as you know, he was an experiencer, 1992 or three, he has the beings in his room.
His wife is in a fetus position.
And then suddenly he's in his pajamas, he's watching this UFO fly raid.
And he said his reality was completely destroyed as to what was going on.
So he goes to George Tennant, the director of the CIA at the time, and he says, Do I need to know what's going on?
And George says, You don't need this.
Forget about this.
It's going to destroy your career.
You don't want to know about this kind of stuff.
And when he retires, from what I'm told, and the source I think is pretty good that told me this, when he retires, Ron Pandolfi briefs him.
So he doesn't know what's going on until he actually leaves.
As soon as he's briefed, Then he makes this move into the UFO community.
He meets up with Chris Bletzel, who's another experiencer.
He's very interested in the experiencers.
And that's the whole thing.
So, you have Elizondo quitting, you have Steve Justice quitting, he's coming into the operation.
And I believe that, whatever they say, I think it's a set up thing because you always have the problem of how does Elizondo get the films out?
And nobody has explained this to me.
When you quit in disgust at the Department of Defense, they don't give you the UFO films for a goodbye present.
So, how do you get the films out?
You have to get them out of the Pentagon.
Whether you've declassified them or not, it's not your possession.
So, how do you get those things out?
The same as Steve Justice.
Steve Justice is the second top guy at Lockheed Skunk Works, has all the technology.
This is like taking the atomic bomb and coming out.
I'm going to give you the secret.
Somebody has authorized these guys to come out.
Yes.
You ran at the heart of the matter.
And I think we can get at the heart of the matter.
This is the key issue.
But let's say this okay, there's a point after the New York Times article comes out where suddenly Pandolfi is firing shots and put off in Scientology.
What was all that about?
Immediately.
One of the things that I go back to is this is about a year ago.
I've known about Semi Van for about two and a half years.
He's only been known to the stars since April.
He joined to the stars.
But before that, I knew who this guy was.
And so I forgot what your question was again.
I sort of lost my train of thought.
Oh, that's okay.
Pandolfi started firing shots after the article at Put Off about the whole Scientology thing.
Um, so Pandolfi sort of makes a bizarre habit.
He has this thing of painting people with uh brush strokes where he says, Um, everybody in the UFO community is either a loon, a crook, or worse.
And it's like, okay, if you said 20, I'd believe that, but everybody, I mean, you you you sort of become unbelievable.
So, what happened with the Scientology thing is he called this right from the word go, he didn't call it like a later, he called it the same day.
Because what I would always do with this story is I knew as the story was developing.
I would go to Dan Smith, and Dan Smith is the Messiah.
He's the Messiah for, he believes he's here for disclosure, that the government is leaking him all this stuff, and he's to leak it.
So he's the same sort of Messiah thing.
So he's the mouthpiece for Pandolfi.
Yeah, and he's the plausible liability.
He first was starting, Ron started feeding him in 1991, and he said, it's all plausible liability, it's all verbal.
So he said, Ron will deny everything he's told me in 26 years.
And that's how it works.
It's all this plausible liability.
So, John comes up with this Scientology thing, but he comes up with it immediately from the word go that this is all Scientology.
And I went, Whoa, I'm going like, where's this coming from?
And what happened was when the story broke, I was actually trying to get Dan, we helped get Dan Smith onto the internet to watch the October 11th event.
Because every time something would happen, I'd go to Dan and say, Because I've been following Pandolfi for 20 years, and I know he's this key guy.
You know, you don't know what to believe, what not to believe, but he's a key guy.
So, you got to listen to everything he says.
So, as soon as something would happen, like October 11th, I'd get Dan Smith, I got him on a YouTube thing.
Which I put on my YouTube channel, and I said, Okay, Dan, so what's Ron say today?
You know, and I would get this thing.
So, the same thing happened on September, December 16th, when the story broke.
I said, Oh, here's the story.
What does Ron say?
And so, within minutes, Ron had said, It's a total hoax.
It's done on a, he said it was done on a, what do they call these simulators?
He said it was done on a simulator.
It's all Scientology.
And I'm going, Where is this coming from?
And later on, he would say, Everybody except for Melon. Is a Scientologist.
And it was sort of like you're just pushing it too far.
I mean, everybody's a Scientologist and this sort of stuff.
But what it is, is what I believe, and it's a possibility.
Ron is the guy with the key.
He's the guy with the keys.
He's the guy that's operational.
And early on, I had a fight with Dan Smith.
When I first brought up Jim Semivan's name, he said, Oh, I've never heard of the guy.
I said, You're at the center of this thing.
You're at the center of the hurricane here.
You think you're the guy that knows what's going on.
And he didn't know who Tom DeLong was.
He didn't know who anybody was.
And I said, You don't know who Semivan is?
And so, of course, he immediately goes to Ron Pandolfi and I guess he brings up Semivan.
Then he puts it on Open Minds Forum for people who are watching.
It's very hard to read.
I don't suggest you go there.
But Open Minds Forum, Dan Smith's.
Blog, this is where they drop all these little hints.
That's where he finds.
Yeah.
And so he posts on Open Minds Forum and he mentions Semivan's name.
And Semivan's name was very secret at the time.
And he said, Oh, I had a conversation with Grant Cameron.
He talked about Jim Semivan and stuff.
And I went, Oh my God.
I said, Oh, it's on the internet.
Like, Oh, I shouldn't have used his name.
And then I thought, Oh, no, nobody reads Open Minds Forum.
I think Dan told me at one time he had six followers.
I go, Oh, nobody's going to read it anyway.
And then I looked later in the day and it was taken down.
And then Ron had posted, he said, Ron told me, take this down immediately and do not post lies from loons anymore.
Questionable Backgrounds00:05:06
And so I went, Whoa, you know, so it's down and I felt better.
But the thing was, then I kept going, and then Dan would say, Oh, semi van doesn't exist.
I said, Yeah, semi van exists.
No, no, he doesn't.
And this argument went back and forth.
I said, Ron knows he exists.
He exists.
And then it was like, And then I said, Well, you want some pictures of him?
So he was good friends because he's an experiencer.
He's just good friends with Chris Bletsoe, this famous experiencer from North Carolina.
He's a good friend of mine.
So he went to Chris Bledsoe's birthday party, and there's pictures taken.
Jim Semivan brought in the kids, and he told the kids about all this kind of stuff and his background and this kind of stuff.
And so I sent the pictures to Dan Smith.
I said, Here's Jim Semivan.
Here he is with Chris Bledsoe.
The guy's for real.
And then they changed the story.
Then it was, Oh, yeah, he exists, but that's not his name.
And I said, Well, he's on Facebook, and he's got like 50 Semivans.
So unless all his relatives change their name, his name's Jim Semivan.
So they're still playing this game that they don't know who Jim Semivan is.
Jim Semivan's a fod.
But the key is if Pandolfi holds the keys, if he's the guy that's in charge of all classified material on UFOs, this is his operation.
This is his guy.
That's why he can't identify Semivan because it's his guy.
The things that are classified are sources and methods.
If you're the guy running the thing, you want plausible liability.
So you say these guys are wackos, put off some crook and stuff.
Because I heard later on, I mean, he's good friends with put off.
He claims to be this guy who breaks up techno scams and stuff and help put off.
Helps him break up techno scams.
And so then suddenly he's the bad guy.
But that's what you have to do.
You've got to distance yourself from the story and create this sort of what we always have in the UFO community you have a good side, bad side, and you leak stories, and everybody's fighting with each other.
And the prime example of that was when Bob Emmenager got the story of the Holloman Air Force Base story.
It was May of 1971 when this happened.
So I had the story.
I told Linda Howe about it.
Linda Howe started talking about the story.
And suddenly Richard Doty comes to her and says, Oh no, it wasn't May of 75.
71.
It was 1964.
And this was the whole thing.
They landed in 64.
They were in the wrong place.
They were supposed to be at White Sands and they were in the wrong place and stuff.
And they change it.
So then you have two different versions.
Is Holloman 64 or is it 71?
So then Linda and me are fighting about, no, you're wrong.
I'm right.
And all this kind of stuff.
And that's what they do.
They create this thing inside the UFO community where they feed two different stories.
Because it's the idea.
If you want to disclose it, the real true story, you put it out.
It takes you 15 minutes.
If you want, Something that where you get the story out and it bounces around and nobody can confirm it.
Then you do this thing where you leak two different stories from two different sources and the facts are a little bit different.
Everybody starts fighting and the story gets out, almost like the Area 51 story.
You put it out.
Bob Lazard's got a bad background.
He doesn't have the two master's degrees.
Almost like this story gets out, and then everybody starts going, Oh, it's a hoax, and all this stuff.
And the vast majority of the UFO community just races to the next story, and the story bounces around, and nobody confirms it.
Right, right, right.
Wow, that is a fascinating outcome of how this conversation works.
The question is Are you getting sound weirdness?
A little bit, yeah.
But I think we're okay.
No, but you and I are.
It's.
Yeah, interesting.
Mine is okay.
Okay.
My question around this is let's just go with the idea for a moment that we know that this character, Pandolfi, was behind this.
So I think actually anyone who does the real deep research will find that that's the truth.
The question is let's suppose for a moment that he sniped at Put Off for real.
Like, what would it have been after that rollout that would turn him against Put Off, who's standing up there and saying this is great?
Well, his whole contention is that he mentioned there was a couple of examples he showed in the past where there's a guy, I think his name is Church.
He owns some big chicken thing where he lost a lot of money.
He claimed that Joe Firmich, who's a key part to this whole story, had lost $90 million that Put Off had taken.
Firmage for a lot of his money.
And that was his claim.
But I've known Hal put off for 20 years.
I mean, he's the kind of guy who holds his cards very close to his vest.
He doesn't really say anything.
I'll ask him a question from time to time.
What about this?
For example, I asked him at one point because there's no documents in the presidential libraries about UFOs.
So there was none about remote viewing either.
So I went to him and I said, Did the president ever get briefed on remote viewing?
And he would say, Yeah, up to this point.
And I think it was the Bush, when Bush, vice president or something, When he started to run, I guess he'd left the operation at the time.
But he said, until then, yes, the president was getting briefed.
So it confirmed to me just because there's no documents doesn't mean that something's not happening in the White House.
Unbelievable Claims00:03:22
But he's taken shots at everybody, everything he takes a shot at, everybody.
And that's where I'm saying he sort of goes overboard, where if he was to say one guy was a Scientologist or a scam or whatever, and then he says Eric Davis is, and then he starts attacking people.
He says, you know, John Alexander doesn't have a legitimate PhD, he's not a colonel.
No, Gordon, this Gary, the guy from Stanford, Gary Nolan.
He's not got a question.
He's got a questionable educational background.
And who's the other one he went after?
Oh, he was all these things.
Like these guys are all a bunch of frauds and phonies.
And it just sort of goes overboard.
That it just is not believable because he's going after everybody.
It's almost like saying, you know, all Mexicans are drugs, rapists, murderers, that sort of thing, you know, where if he was sort of on board.
So, I really believe any of that kind of stuff, and I don't think hell really takes it.
I know Eric Davis was very upset when that came out, and he said to me, You're wasting your time.
Jack Bell warned about this kind of stuff, and that you shouldn't be, this guy's a fraudster.
And the way I look at the game is a game.
I'm really not interested in disclosure.
I'm interested in this thing as a game because I had my own close encounter in 1975.
Not interested in lights in the sky.
I know what I saw.
So, Grant, that was part of a wave of sightings in Canada at the time.
What did happen was in the United States, and just my theory is that in the United States, I'm right on the American border above North Dakota, and North Dakota had 300 nuclear missiles.
Minuteman, three nuclear missiles with three warheads on them each, you know, could take out, you know, the world three times or whatever.
And if the United States had been a country, it would have been a nuclear superpower.
And in 1975, they install pre Star Wars.
So Reagan comes in in 80 with Star Wars and outer space, but in 75, it was on the ground.
It was a A unit was the only anti ballistic missile unit that ever went operational.
It was in Nakoma, North Dakota, just south of us, and they put in 100 new nuclear missiles.
And this is the idea that we're going to try to get the Russian missiles as they were in outer space with these big five megaton rockets.
And then if they missed those, they had these little sprint missiles, and they would try to get them as they were coming in.
Because the number one target of the Russians was not Washington or New York or anything like that.
It was the missiles in North Dakota and Montana and South Dakota.
Because if you don't take out those missiles, You're not going to see what happens in Washington.
You're gone.
You've got to take out the American missiles.
So, we, you know, when they put these missiles in, starting in February of 1975, all these sightings started on our side of the border, and they made a treaty with the Russians and they started taking them out in November of 1975, these 100 new nuclear missiles, and the sightings stopped.
And there's not been a sighting in this town since.
In 75, half the town was seeing this thing.
And the only reason I went out, I had no interest in it.
I went out because I wanted to see what everybody was looking at.
I really had an interest in psychic phenomena.
I had an interest in In dying, I'd done a study on dying patients at hospitals.
I was fascinated in that kind of stuff, but I had no interest in UFOs.
But when I saw what I saw the first two nights, I was like up close.
Almost like it was planned, it came right up, and it was like, whoa, I sort of fell off the edge of the earth.
The rest of my friends went on with their life.
And so to me, it was always the thing where I knew sightings were real.
Mixing the Story00:05:17
Nobody wanted to publish the book that I had in 75.
And so all I was interested in is who knows what's going on.
And that's where I ended up dealing with Pandolfi.
So to me, when I was young, when I was in about grade five or grade six, I was playing chess.
In the high school, I was very good at chess, and to me, this is like a chess game.
And it's like I have the hundred people in this game, and what I do is I don't really judge what they're saying.
I have these hundred pieces, and I know Pendolfi, you got to listen to what Pendolfi says, you got to listen to what Eric Davis says, you got to listen to what Put Off says.
And to me, it's like most of a chess game is not so much what moves you're going to make, is if you're up against a very good player who Put Off would be, who Ron Pendolfi would be.
What you do in a chess game is you sit there very carefully and You try to figure out what the hell is the other guy doing.
Why did he move that piece?
If he's just an average player, he moved that piece because he doesn't know why he moved that piece.
But if he's a really good player, he moved that piece for a reason.
And so I watch all these players.
I've got 100 people that I watch.
Everything they say, I try to download interviews.
I put them on MP3s.
I have headphones on all the time.
I listen to these interviews.
And I basically just watch all these different players.
And that's how I sort of put the game together.
And I go for the most important players.
And Pandolfi, to me, is absolutely the most important player.
He's the guy, as they say, with the keys, because there was.
There was some stuff leaked around that Reed actually got briefed, that Senator Reed actually was briefed.
And Ron talked about the briefing thing.
And the way he described it was when a senator, someone comes to him for a briefing, he has the keys and he says, I can give you the key and you can go, but you're going to have to go look for the material that you want.
And then you're responsible for what happens, or you can let me hold the key.
So he holds the keys to, he's the guy with the classified material on UFOs.
And I remember Eric Davis talking about this years ago.
It was one of the questions I asked him.
He got sort of upset with it.
I gave him 20 questions.
Answer these 20 questions.
And he answered some of them.
This is the one that he didn't really answer.
And that was years ago, he had told me that people were petrified of Ron Pandolfi in the scientific community.
And the reason they were, because he's on the leading edge.
Like he did that Hughes aircraft thing with China.
He works on this Tiger Group, the most advanced material, this sort of Department of Defense thing where they're looking at leading edge technology.
So he's on the leading edge of all technology.
So he knows that's classified, that's not classified.
And when you step over the line, everybody knows as a scientist, if you get into classified material, you're gone.
You can have your security clearance, you use classified material, you're outside the box, and you lose your security clearance, and you're done.
So everybody was afraid.
I was told years ago that everybody was afraid of Pandolfi because he was always bugging people.
He was always on people and watching what they were doing.
So he's on the leading edge, and that's what people got to remember.
So whatever is classified on UFOs, Pandolfi knows what it is.
Now, is Pandolfi, do you think, working another angle besides the DeLong, New York Times angle?
Oh, yeah.
Well, he had the one that I was actually offered the in on.
I was offered an in because I was sort of like the one I'd worked with Bill Moore, not worked with Bill Moore, but I had done.
Early articles on the Avery.
I had written a book on the Avery and who they were and how I.
It's the same theory I have now.
It's like this gradual thing where they, you know, they're mixing the story.
You take information, you put disinformation around it, and you throw it out there and it bounces around and the story sort of gets out.
So I was sort of the expert on the Avery.
And Ron had asked for a documentary in Hollywood.
Now I know if this was running for a while and then I didn't think it was going to happen or maybe it was just a story he'd made up.
But I was contacted by a guy named Kevin Albert, who's.
A key guy in the Pandolfi operation.
He's a film guy in Hollywood, a minor type guy.
And he contacted me.
He said, U.S. intelligence said to talk to you.
And I said, What?
I said, Come on, I'm not even American.
Why would U.S. intelligence say to talk to me?
I've got this, it makes no sense.
And he said, Well, because you know about the Avery.
And I said, Well, yeah, I know about the Avery.
And he said, Well, Ron has asked.
And then he mentioned who Ron.
And I said, Well, I've chased Ron for years or watched him very closely for years.
And he said, Well, Ron wants to do this documentary.
In Hollywood on the Avery.
And he's introduced me to these different people Richard Doty, Robert Colts, John Alexander, you know, the whole nine yards, you know, hell put off, the same people that were in there in the 80s.
And he wanted to do this documentary.
And then so Kevin says, Well, we'll do fiction.
And Ron says, No, we've got enough fiction.
We're going to do fact.
And so he said, We will let you in on this documentary and you'll know exactly what we're going to do.
We're running this operation.
You could be in on the phone calls.
You're going to know exactly what we're going to do.
And I said, No, I don't want to.
No, I don't want to be involved because I knew there's a difference between a chess player and a chess piece, and I want to be the chess player, not the chess piece.
So I said, Yeah, I'll help you out, whatever you want.
You want me to answer, I can tell you what I know, anything you've got, but I don't, I really don't want to be on the phone calls, I really don't want any of that kind of stuff.
And he said, Well, if you're on the inside, you get 100, you know exactly what we're going to do, and if you're on the outside, you've got 10 to 15 percent.
I said, I'll take the 10 to 15 percent.
I would rather sit on the outside and really not know everything that's going on, but I don't want to get in there because then it's suddenly I don't belong to anybody's church, nobody's.
CIA Written Files00:05:41
Uh, UFO group, nobody's, uh, you know, take on UFOs.
I just sort of sit there with these hundred players because that's the thing, that's what I started in '75.
I wanted to know who knows what I saw.
Somebody has to know what that thing was that I saw, and so that's why I chased the president, that's why I chased the Canadian government for a number of years.
I got all the material from the early guy that ran the Canadian government program, that's why I chased Dr. Eric Walker at Penn State University.
Because right after the MJ 12 document was released, a couple days later, someone phoned him and said, Oh, you do you know about this?
I got this MJ 12 document.
He said, cut him off.
He said, Look, I've known of them for 40 years.
Leave it alone.
There's nothing you can do about it.
You're up against the windmills.
Go study something else.
I went, Holy cow, this guy knows what's going on.
So, I chased him for eight years.
So, what I was doing is, I just basically look around, and if I think someone knows what's going on in this Tom DeLong operation, I don't say anything.
I just say, This guy, I got to watch.
I got to watch what he says.
What is he saying?
Is it agree with everybody else?
And as you start putting it together, it starts to sort of make sense as to what's actually going on.
What about if Semiban is Gandalf's guy?
Yeah.
Then tell us about Semiban.
Okay, Jim Semivan is a guy.
The thing that I say you have to know about him is he's an experiencer.
He had the beings in his room.
He goes to Tennant.
There was also a story that Ron vehemently denied he went to Ron when this happened.
And he said to Ron, I need to know what's going on because he was the UFO guy.
Everybody knew he was the UFO guy at CIA.
And Ron says, You don't have a need to know.
And Semivan was what's called an SES II.
Like in the civilian world, they have almost like military ranks.
So an SES II is an equivalent to a two star general.
And he was the guy that ran the drone program for Bush.
So he would walk into Bush's office every day and he'd give him the targets.
He'd say, Here's the targets.
And Bush would just sign the paper and he'd walk out.
He had that much power.
And all these intelligence people ran all the drones and stuff.
Very, very powerful guy.
But the thing you've got to remember is that he had this experience.
So he goes to Ron.
And so Ron says, You don't have a need to know.
And from what I was told, he said to Ron, I don't have a need to know.
Let me tell you what, Ron, you bring your boss's boss into my office and we'll see who doesn't have a need to know.
And I think that's when Tenet was brought in.
And Tenet said, You don't need this.
Just leave it alone.
And the words I was told, he was told, Pretend it's a one off.
Pretend this only happened one time.
It'll never happen again.
And so he, a good CIA guy, kept quiet.
He was never known for this thing.
And when he retired in 2008, what I was told was that he was briefed and that he contacted Chris Bledsoe and he said, When I was at the CIA, I couldn't contact you.
I knew who you were, but I couldn't contact you until I retired.
And that's this important.
Connection that I make, you got to distinguish who's operational because once you're in the government, you're speaking on behalf of the government.
When you're outside in the black world, nobody can prove it.
It's almost like Ron said with Semivan, he said, Anybody can, it's not illegal for anybody to say that they're a CIA agent that used to work for the CIA.
It's not illegal.
And that's what he was saying Semivan.
Oh, he's just running around saying he's a CIA agent.
Anybody can do that.
And that's the thing is when you get that plausible deniability when you're in the black world, nobody really knows who you're working with.
Same as Chase Brandon.
If you remember the story of Chase Brandon.
Chase Brandon is a prime example of how this thing works.
On the 50th anniversary of Roswell, they send out Philip Corso, who was part of this operation.
So, Phil Corso comes out, he makes up the story.
He says, Oh, I got this filing cabinet.
I found the stuff in the filing cabinet.
There was no filing cabinet, it's just a fictional story that they make up to protect sources and methods.
And they tell the story, we gave it to industry.
That was true.
All that stuff was true.
And all the rest of the stuff, the filing cabinet, was false.
So, when it comes to Chase Brandon, 2012, it's the 65th anniversary of Roswell.
Here comes Chase Brandon.
He's got this book, a fictional book on how the CIA handled the Roswell crash.
And he said it was reviewed at least two times by the CIA review panel.
And they said, change this, change that, change this date, whatever.
So it's basically written by the CIA.
And so what you're doing is like, you say, if you're a CIA agent, you save the world, you say, I want to tell the kid this story for my grandkids.
They say, okay, sure, you can do it.
You change the names, you change the locations, whatever.
You fictionalize the thing.
And that's what they're doing.
So Chase Brandon comes out.
And instead of a filing cabinet, now he's got a box.
He's in the archives collection at Langley.
He's by himself, which is illegal.
You're not allowed to be in the thing without an escort.
He's in there waiting for a film crew to come.
Making this, he's making this story up, and he says, Oh, I was looking, and there's this Roswell box sitting there.
And it's not a Roswell box, that's how they mark the boxes, but he's got to have some sort of thing.
He said, I looked in the box, and I can't tell you what was in the box, but I can tell you that Roswell was real, it was extraterrestrial, and there were bodies.
He tells this story, he goes out there, and then he just disappears into the darkness.
Nobody goes after him, nobody chases him, nobody goes for interviews.
He tells this sort of story, it bounces around.
I look him up as I was doing the DeLong story, doing the book on DeLong.
And this is what I call managing magic, all this how this game is played.
When I started looking for Chase Brandon, I said, What happened to Chase Brandon?
He's still in Hollywood, he was the liaison to Hollywood for 10 years, and that's his job.
He's the schmoozer, he's a CIA schmoozer.
He comes in, you're doing the CIA movie, we're going to help you out, and now he's doing the same thing.
And that's when you had this idea that they want to throw this portal idea.
There's six at least six shows last year that suddenly got portals.
Let's do that because the portal thing is fast, fast.
Parallel Universe Stories00:02:05
Yeah, um, where did the portal story come from?
Well, it first started, according to Dan Smith, it started in late 2016, mid 2016.
And before that, when I first heard it, I thought, this is garbage.
I mean, this is total nonsense.
I mean, I heard about it.
And then I was talking to Kevin Albert, who was the guy who was doing the documentary thing.
And I said, that's portal stuff.
This is nonsense.
He said, oh, no, that's part real.
And I said, what do you mean it's real?
He said, oh, no, that part's real.
And I said, You're kidding me, and he said, No, he said, In fact, on in this documentary, this nonfiction documentary, we're going to do two episodes on the portal.
And then I said to him, Okay, so if you're doing nonfiction on the portal, who's going on camera?
And that's when he said, Ron's wife is going on camera.
Wow, and that's part of the story that Ron is putting out is that his wife is actually an alien, it's the most bizarre story.
He's put this story out, he's from a parallel universe.
What's that?
He's from a parallel universe, I think, from the other side, from the other side of the portal.
That she came, the story was that.
In 1983, Ron is in the White House with Ronald Reagan, and she is brought there by her father, who is a, I'm not sure he's the ambassador to Pakistan, but he's a high level diplomat from Pakistan.
And he brings her and this portal thing.
And the president is given control of the story, the portal, and all this technology.
And Ron takes care of the princess.
And he later, she's only five years old at the time.
And Ron is then married to another woman.
And so Ron ends up marrying this woman.
And this is the story they tell is that this was destined that she's from the other side of the portal and that she controls the portals.
And just the most bizarre story, almost like the Moses thing, that she was found in a basket.
And this father is just a stepfather.
Briefing Trump on Portals00:04:27
And they found her.
And she's actually from the other side.
And we even had her daughter.
They had some of these go to meetings.
And the one I said, this little, she was, I think, five at the time or six.
This little Kashmir is the daughter, Ron Pendolfi's daughter.
And I said, let Kashmir close the meeting.
And she came on and she said, You know, I'm only a half alien, but my mother's a full alien.
And I went, Whoa.
And then Ron had said this a month ago.
And you don't know whether he's just pulling everybody's chain or whether it's like, How far can he push this thing?
But that's the sort of the idea that she's sort of in control of the portal.
In fact, when they had the thing about the briefing, we followed the briefing thing because it first came up in January of 2017, about two weeks before Trump was sworn in.
Robert Collins, if you know who Robert Collins is, he's a pretty reliable guy, if you can ever get him on an interview.
He wrote the book Exempt from Disclosure, which is a fascinating book that tells the whole Avery story.
He was in the Avery.
He knew all the guys.
He knew how the thing was working on the inside.
And he puts on his Facebook site on January 6th of last year.
He puts on there and says, My good friend Ron Pandolfi from the CIA, who gave me an interview with the CIA, has just sent me an email that says Donald Trump is pro disclosure and against disinformation.
And I'm going to leave it for a little while until he gets settled or something like that.
And I went, whoa, it's like, because I knew Ron Pendolfi was.
So I started talking to all the people that knew Ron Pendolfi, and everybody said, no, I don't know anything about this, and, you know, get upset.
And then, of course, I went to Dan Smith, and I said, well, what do you know about this?
And he said, oh, yeah, I've been talking about this for a couple of months on Open Minds.
So I started, and I did interviews with him, and I watched everything he'd written on Open Minds for me, which is pretty hard because he does the rhymes and the riddles, and eschatology and religion, and all this kind of stuff.
And I sweated through all that stuff.
And so he told the story that he was telling in December of 2016.
I said, So, is Donald Trump being briefed?
And he said, Ron has been with Mr. Trump every day in December.
And then they went on this cruise ship.
All of these people went on a cruise ship.
And the story was that Ron had been with a briefing and that he had briefed Trump on the UFO thing with James Wosley, who was the CI director under Bill Clinton and the guy who had had a UFO sighting in 1970, daylight sighting with his wife in New Hampshire.
And who had initiated the UFO study that the CIA did came out in 1997?
He was part of the briefing team, and then a guy by the name of Mike Pillsbury.
And so when I looked up these names, I saw Mike Pillsbury was a Chinese expert.
And then I'm thinking, ah, now Dan's got this all messed up.
This is all just nonsense.
He was giving a briefing on Chinese technology, and that's why Pillsbury was having nothing to do with UFOs.
And yet, in the last couple of weeks, I had about 80 people on a list, and the last 20 people in the last Two weeks, 20 new people have suddenly popped up, and one of the names on the emails is Mike Pillsbury.
I couldn't believe when I saw this.
I said, Holy cow, maybe that's true.
Maybe they did.
And the story was that they did the briefing, and then Aliyah Pandolfi, who is this supposedly from the other side of the portal, control of the portal, that she was brought in to brief Trump on the portal.
And that the story was that Trump authorized this to continue and that he really wasn't interested.
But he, this is an idea, it's called The Guy That Briefed Obama.
Describe this situation.
Hayden.
Hayden described this.
He said, When you do the presidential elect briefing, he said it's called the wake up call.
So he goes in to do the briefing and he says, Okay, here's the deal.
We're doing this.
We're killing these guys.
We're overthrowing this government.
We're doing this.
And the president, you know, the president elect is just freaking out.
And Obama even said, He was in Chicago when he got the briefing.
And he said, There's a good thing there were bars on the window because he would have jumped out.
So he's telling him all this stuff.
And then he says to him, I just want to let you know.
That at 12 noon, we do these things on behalf of the presidency of the United States, not on behalf of the president.
So these are things that run from president to president to president.
They just go on.
And he said, when you put your hand on the Bible at 12 noon, unless you stop us from doing what we're doing right now, we're going to continue to do this and this and this and this.
The Presidential Wake Up Call00:07:47
And so this seems to be one of these programs that has been running.
As I said, in Magic Magic, I said they started this in 47.
They had Kenneth Arnold.
They gave Kenneth Arnold photographs, 8 by 11 photographs, and his daughter's now running around.
Being interviewed talking about these photographs, they're like gun camera footage.
And the Fourth Air Force was trying to convince him these were real photographs.
So, if they're covering up why they're showing Kenneth Arnold a couple days after the whole thing starts, they've been doing the same sort of thing.
Walt Disney did it.
They did it to Eminager.
They did it to, you know, Eminager again in the 1980s.
He gets approached by the Reagan administration to do another documentary.
They just keep doing this sort of thing.
And now.
I think there's a lot of data in here, also.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
That's the thing that people got to realize that the CIA has no magic powers.
The CIA has.
The only place to get data is from the people.
They have to.
Get it from you and I.
And that's one thing that has really escaped this story the idea that experiencers are a big part of this story.
That there is an operation that was mentioned by the New York Times, but nobody's picked up on it because most people are into the lights in the sky.
I'm into the experiencers.
So when I heard the experiencers, I went, wow, because I'd heard about it before.
I heard about it two years ago that Kit Green, Gary Nolan from Stanford University, and Hell Put Off, and an engineer from Hell Put Off, are all working with experiencers.
And so the whole thing is if you want to know how this thing flies, The experiencers are the people that have interacted with the ship.
They've flown the ship.
They know how the whole thing works.
They're getting messages.
They're getting downloads.
42% of all experiencers have downloads.
They got mathematical, technical, scientific material in their head.
So they got this program.
And I was told two years ago by somebody who knew Kit Green that Kit Green had told him that if you're a high level government official like Jim Semivan and you suddenly come to work and say, Oh my God, I had these beings in my room last night, they send you to Kit Green because Kit Green knows what's going on.
He knows the difference between somebody who's crazy.
Somebody who's psychotic and somebody who's an abductee, and so high level people.
He has a hundred people in this program.
What they're doing is they're looking at the DNA of people that are highly psychic, like Yuri Geller, all these types of people, high remote viewers, McGonagall, and all these guys, and experiencers.
They're studying these people and their brain patterns, and they call it an antenna.
So, the idea is, why does an experiencer suddenly be able to interact with these things?
And they're trying to figure out how it works.
So, they're asking, How does the craft work?
Did they tell you how the craft works?
They tell you, and they're doing this data mining mostly with experience.
Actually, let's get into that antenna part a little bit.
One thing, though, I want to say is I'm not completely clear about the portal.
What exactly, you know, I understand the story that he was saying about her being from the other side of the portal, but what exactly is it supposed to be in a nutshell?
Well, that's the whole thing.
That's where it falls apart because with Dan Smith and with Ron Pandolf, it's all rhymes and riddles.
I mean, Ron put one up this afternoon and it's on Open Minds Forum, and we have a group, and it's like, Okay, what does this mean?
And everybody takes a guess.
Okay, what's he talking about today?
And it's this bizarre thing the Spears and the 93 and another time.
And they like to play almost like in the 80s, they did the same thing with the Avery.
They had where the live alien was, they were doing the bird coat.
And they were sending these bird coats on postcards from around the world.
Spies like to play these stupid games.
How about time travel wormhole?
Well, it could be the same thing.
But when Ron's talking about it, they're talking about.
I was convinced at one point that.
Joe Firmage actually had a portal that he'd actually built the portal, and that this guy from LA was coming with what's called an actuator.
They were going to put this actuator, and it was actually going to work.
But with Ron, you can never find out what it was.
What I equate it to is a story that I really want to do, and I'm three quarters of the way through the book.
It's a story on Zendras.
If you've ever heard about Zendras, Zendras are South American contactees.
You haven't heard the story because it's a Latin story.
It's all done in Spanish.
I just happened to get dragged into one of these incidents where something happened when I was there.
And what they have is the same thing they have antennas.
So it's the Rama group that started in 1974.
Six stole paws and his brother.
They suddenly automatic writing and they're talking to what they think is an alien.
And then they say they're doing automatic.
Well, how do we know how to talk to an alien?
And the alien says, Saturday night, 60 miles south of Lima, Peru, you go there and we're going to appear.
And so these people start training other people.
And they're able to not only predict when the sighting is going to take place, they're actually able to predict exactly to the minute when it's going to happen.
And the one I was involved with last year was to the minute.
And the key thing is that they call these people, the ones that get the messages, they call them antennas.
And so when I heard Kit Green and Nolan calling these people their thing antennas, I'm going, this is the same thing.
And what these people are able to do, these There's about five of these main contactees.
And I've written this book, and it's the best story I've ever seen in 43 years of ufology.
Best story.
And they open it, able to open these, what they call zendras.
But it's always the being.
Is this an English speaking book?
There are some English speaking.
Well, mine's going to be an English speaking book.
I'm trying to give this Latin story into English.
I got it.
So let me get this clear.
They have this book out there about the zendras, but you're doing one for the zendras.
It's all over the world.
I was at an event, not where a zender opened.
But in a lot of these events where they bring in these, they call them controlled sightings, where they can actually tell when the sighting is going to take place at exactly one minute.
In some cases, they're able to open these zenders.
And what they're described as is interdimensional portals.
They're opened by the beings.
And there's two that happened in 2014, 2015 at Mount Shasta.
And I got all these people on camera.
There's eight, there's nine, and one, there were 10 witnesses who were inside this zendra.
So what happens is the alien comes, the antennas are told there's going to be a zendra open.
They go into the forest, they're looking for this zendra.
Suddenly, there's this sort of dome of light, this white.
Bluish light coming off the ground.
They go in there and there's this alien and they're looking at this alien.
I interviewed all these people.
I said, What did you hear that, Zendro?
And they go, Yeah, yeah.
What'd you see?
I saw this alien.
He was about 10 feet tall.
And I'm going, Really?
And he had this crest and he had the sparks coming off his chest.
And it looked like a bicycle suit.
And then I go to the next person.
What did you see?
It was an alien standing there.
He was about 10 feet tall.
And I'm going, I can't believe this.
It's like, you know, it's not where the sport is.
This is a lot more exciting than gimbal camera footage.
Yeah, it's different than that with the.
With the Pandolfi thing, it's always this plausible liability thing.
You can't, even two days ago, I got a message indirectly through Jack Sarfati, who is a reliable guy.
He's a zero point energy guy.
He's always arguing with Put Off about how the propulsion system works.
He said, Joe Firmage does not have a portal.
And they're having this big meeting at the Grove next week.
I don't know if you know about this meeting.
This big meeting at the Bohemian Grove meeting.
And he said, We are not opening a portal.
And he's basically saying there's no portal.
So I'm thinking, Oh, Ron, it's just garbage.
But the Zendra thing is for real.
There's no doubt.
I've got some, and we've got pictures of Zendras, we've got videos of Zendras.
Grant, do you think that maybe they're imitating this Zendra movement that's coming out of the pandemic?
Yeah, maybe they may.
Because I put a question through to Ron's wife twice through intermediaries.
And both times I said, Is the Zendra the same as a portal?
And I never got an answer either time.
Just avoided the question, didn't answer the question.
And so they may be playing off that kind of thing.
Because I really don't think we have that kind of technology.
That's pretty far out there.
This is this idea where you can, and the people are in the Zenders.
We'll talk about you walk into the Zendra and you're on another planet.
You're just like on another planet and you're walking around, and it's the same thing, almost like the Travis Walton thing.
The guy's gone for nine hours, he comes back and he's got a five day growth of beard.
Managing Magic and Consciousness00:15:30
Like time is and all, you know, all this, everything changes.
So the Zendra story is for real.
And I'll show pictures, I'll have, you know, incidents where there's 747 Airlines pilots that are going into these things, some where there's 125 people going to a Zendra, stuff like that.
That's for real.
The Ron Pendolfi is.
You know, at most of the times, I really don't believe there is a portal and that he's just playing this thing.
And I'm really interested in the portal because it's the consciousness thing.
If the portal, the Zendra thing is real, then this material idea that we're using big spacecraft is wrong.
We're moving from point to point in space.
That's almost like a backward idea.
Totally.
Now, this is interesting.
You're right.
You're right.
Consciousness idea.
John Alexander's mentioned the consciousness.
Okay, so let's go there then.
Let's do this because your work really is fundamentally, interestingly enough, although not everyone knows this, is about consciousness.
Yeah, because I had a download experience watching a.
Lecture by Colin Andrews in 2012, and he was lecturing on consciousness and crop circles.
The only reason I went into the room was because he was a high level guy.
He's well known.
He's the guy who invented the term crop circles.
I had no interest in crop circles whatsoever.
And I went in there, and it was, I'm sitting there.
I didn't want to be in there.
I'm thinking about where I should go, whatever.
And it was like you zone out, you sort of disassociate.
And suddenly I had this download that these three things came into my head just bang, bang, bang, like that.
Instantaneously, I knew the answer.
That's what I said in 1975.
Someone has to know what this is going on.
And suddenly I go, I know what's going on.
It's consciousness.
And as I said, in 2012, before that lecture, I probably couldn't have spelled the word and I couldn't have cared less.
I had no interest whatsoever.
And suddenly I'm walking around and I'm going, wow.
And the three things that came into my head were this to connect this consciousness thing.
The Canadian government in 1950, because when I left the UFO sightings in 75, I went after the Canadian government.
And the one of the most famous documents in ufology is the top secret.
Canadian government memo from November of 1950.
Wilbur Smith is a contactee, the guy that ran the Canadian government UFO program.
He's a contactee, he's very interested.
He goes to the Americans, he's got a very high security clearance, goes to American officials, and he says, What's the deal with flying saucers?
This is September of 1950.
And he comes back, he writes a top secret memo, and it says, We were told by American officials that flying saucers exist.
It's the most highly classified subject in the United States.
There's a small group headed by Dr. Vannevar Bush who's running the program.
It's of tremendous significance to the Americans.
And the thing that popped into my head, When I'm sitting there not paying attention to this lecture, was the very next line in the document, which said, and we were also told by American officials that other things might be associated with the flying saucers, such as mental phenomena.
And the Americans aren't doing very well because they said, if we're working on it, they're willing to work with us.
The key to that was there was no contactees.
Adamski would not appear until 1952 after the detonation of the hydrogen bomb.
Betty and Barney Hill's book were released in the 60s.
How did they know that mental phenomena was part of the flying saucer thing?
Unless they had a live alien or something.
Yeah, I never saw that.
The second thing that popped in my head, we chased this Dr. Eric Walker at Penn State University, 14 honorary doctorate degrees, chairman of the board of the Institute for Defense Analysis, where the Jasons came from, where DARPA came from, all came from him.
He was the chairman of the board.
And he said, when we were talking to him about MJ12, he said, Let me ask you a question.
What do you know about ESP?
And the guy that had the question didn't know.
And he said, Look, unless you understand about ESP and how it works, you will not be taken in by the control group.
Very few people understand.
And it wasn't until 2012 I suddenly went, Oh, that's what he was talking about.
That's not even real.
He's talking about the same thing.
He's talking about mental phenomena.
And then Ben Rich.
I do want to get into that one.
Let's do this.
On the consciousness part.
Well, you've got us so deep, actually.
I want to ask you before I forget Stan Fulham, ex NORAD official.
You spoke to him before he died.
He made a prediction about a sighting over New York City that was going to happen October 3rd, 2010.
It wound up happening.
Just.
A little side note here, Stan Fulham, thoughts?
Well, he was using, I can't remember what the guy's name was, but he wasn't him.
He was using this Transcenders.
Transcender guy.
Yeah, so he was Rick Thurston.
Yeah, he was using him.
So all the material was coming through him.
And that's where I get in.
I wrote a book called Inspired, where I say it's all the same thing.
It's like this story with Stephen King.
He calls it in one of his books, and he wrote a lot of books through lucid dreaming.
He has this expression, SSDD.
Same SH, you know what?
Different day, SSDD.
And it's always the same thing.
So he's using this.
I was disassociating when I was in the room.
And it's the idea that you could pop out, get this material, and pop back.
That's why the experiencers are so important, because they've disassociated.
The aliens have taken them and put them in this other world.
And for example, 40% of all experiencers say at one point during their experience, they knew the answer to everything in the universe.
It's this higher self.
They're suddenly in contact with the higher self.
And when they come back, they lose it.
They say, I'm going to remember.
And they don't remember this.
So that was the important thing.
So Fulham did make that prediction.
And I talked to him.
I had dinner with him quite a few times because he lives in my city.
And he lived in my city before he died.
But he only made that one major prediction.
There are some people who are able to do that.
But it's just the ability to pop into that world.
Pick up that material, but it wasn't actually him that was doing it.
And so that's my.
But don't you know that you're speaking sacrilege here because you're saying it's a higher consciousness phenomena and UFOs, and there are all these UFO people who try to just explain it away in a nuts and bolts kind of fashion.
And then there's a whole scientific community that denies both realities.
So you're really quite the heretic on this.
Oh, yeah.
I always say that a lot of the people that sort of thought I was great doing the presidents and recovering the Rockefeller Initiative documents, they really don't talk to me anymore.
I mean, you know, they won't do interviews with the mayor because I've sort of, you know, left the world and this sort of stuff.
But to me, the nuts and bolts stuff, what I say is when disclosure takes place, and as I said, there's so many people, Ben Rich, when Tom DeLong went to Lockheed's Comfort's, he said the minute he brought up consciousness, that's all they wanted to talk about.
John Alexander says consciousness.
You read Jim Semivan's forward to Tom DeLong's thing, he said the idea that you can measure this thing.
That's in both.
The idea that you can measure this thing is laughable.
How do you define something where there does not appear to be any there, there?
This has got to do with consciousness.
This has got to do with multi dimensionality.
And so, what I say is, when this thing finally does disclose 50 years from now or whatever, the people that are going to be hurt the worst are the scientists.
Because the scientists are behind the cover up, as far as I'm concerned.
The government would jump on this thing.
If somebody would do it, the government would jump on this thing right away.
The media would do the story.
They have no problem.
They would do the story.
It's the scientific community.
If you are a scientist and you say, Oh, I believe there's aliens here, you lose your degree.
Even, you know, some guy with the guy that was into ESP from Cambridge University, he was not allowed to work with graduate students.
He won them the Bell Prize.
You're ostracized in the scientific community if you suddenly get into the UFO thing.
So that's the field that's going to be destroyed because they say you can't get here from there.
The speed of light, the material universe.
Consciousness is the basis of the universe.
It's interesting because that's exactly where John Mack was going before he died.
Well, yeah, and this materialism is the ultimate control paradigm, really, that's ruling Western civilization right now.
I wanted to ask you a quick question that's all related to what we're talking about.
If the National Security Act was created because of the UFO phenomenon, I don't know, do you agree with that premise?
That was something that Jim.
Richard Dolan came up with, I guess, about a decade ago.
I'm not sure.
I mean, it tied in, but I don't think it was the reason that they set it up.
I mean, it's the national defense.
I mean, it's basically, you know, the CIA was established at that time and all these other things.
It was, you know, sort of like the paranoid military that, you know, we won the war and we now got control.
And, you know, you need an enemy.
And if there isn't an enemy, make up an enemy.
And that whole state was built and it's blossomed to seven, you know, Trump's proposing $760 billion defense budget.
Okay.
Because it seems, you know, because then what we're really talking about is that it's about controlling consciousness.
And then I start thinking about Hal Plutoff and that's, A lot of what his work is all about.
And Alexander, he was one of the pioneers of non lethal weapons, which are probably psychotrotic, mind control type of things.
The men who stare at goats.
Yeah.
And you can get the Milabs who all say there's supposedly five Milab people who say that John was in their interrogation.
Right.
And that is what it comes to.
That's why I said why it's so important that the Canadians talked about it in 1950.
Is the only reason I think they probably had it is they may have had a live alien, which means that's why they're so highly classified.
Who cares about the nuts and bolts?
The classification comes from the consciousness.
Because if you've got a live alien walking around in 1947 and it's talking in people's heads, if you're the CIA, you go, Wow, would I love to do that?
And you can go into Putin's head.
You could make him think he talked to God and whatever.
I mean, that's the ultimate technology to be able to get into people's heads and to read their minds.
And maybe what they're trying to block is because when the president stands up, everybody knows what he's thinking.
If telepathy is real, there's no more BS, there's no more lies.
Everybody knows what everybody's thinking.
And it's like, How can you do war?
People say, well, there's all these wars.
They say, well, how can you do war if there's telepathy?
How do you sneak up on the guy?
I mean, the guy knows what you're doing.
You know what he's doing.
You know who's going to win the war.
And so, why would you start a war if you know who's going to win the war if you're precognitive?
Right.
And so, then I have a friend who's been in the sort of black contracting world.
And he says that his people that he knows in that field are really looking for people who have extreme psychic abilities andor are hybrids.
Those are the people that that's what people are missing on this story.
The key to this story.
Is the people, the experiencer people in this whole thing because they got the answers.
And that's when I mentioned the story that Tom DeLong is not interested in really into technology.
He's not interested in all.
He's a storyteller guy.
He's buying up people's stories.
And he went to the Free Foundation.
The Free Foundation has the big files.
They have the files, 3,000 people.
Edgar Mitchell's.
Edgar Mitchell's.
And they filled out 600 questions on their experience.
And those are the ultimate files.
And so Tom DeLong comes and he offers to.
Financed free to pay the fees of all the people.
And free didn't, luckily, didn't give the information away.
Because if you remember, there was one of the things that Put Off had done.
Put Off controls everything.
He had gotten, he did the Skinwalker, he did the triangles, he got the FAA stuff.
But what people forget is he got the Carpenter files.
You got John Carpenter's files, 143 files on abductees.
That's the key files, is when you get the abductees, the experiencers, that's where the material is.
Let's bring that around to Bigelow then, because this is exactly what he did with MUFON.
Yeah, and he was just basically a guy.
His grandparents had this sighting in 47 or whatever.
He had some sort of sighting.
And even Bigelow, if you take a look, people say, oh, he gave all this money to UFOs.
Everybody forgets he gave $3.7 million to the University of Nevada, Las Vegas.
What was it for?
A chair on consciousness study.
Right.
Yeah, it's right back to your original argument.
What's fascinating is this, though.
So tell me a little bit about Robert Bigelow and NIDS.
Because that's the discovery science think tank that he created, which is gone now.
But what was he doing there?
It was the same kind of thing.
Well, he was just a guy who had the money and had the ability to gather people.
And I heard they were getting $3,000 a day, and you bring them in six times a year for three or four days, whatever.
And what he did is he just picked the Avery.
If you've got the money he's got, and you want it's like me, I see my sighting in 1975, I go, somebody knows what's going on here.
So I figure out, Kit Green, okay, let's call Kit Green.
So he called Kit Green because Kit Green ran the CIA.
And then he invited Ron Pandolfi, but he couldn't come because he's operational.
He writes John Alexander, John Alexander's running the thing.
John knows all the contacts.
John brings in hell put off, and that's the way it works.
So suddenly he's got the cream of the crop of the people who have worked in the field, and basically he just picks their brains and he picks it up because he's got the money.
The same as the Skinwalker Ranch.
The reason he bought the Skinwalker Ranch was because he wanted to figure this thing.
He had the money and stuff, and then he ends up selling it because he really can't get anything.
Because every time they try to film something, it's off camera.
They rip the wires down.
And John Alexander said, Not only did they know what we were doing, they knew what we were going to do.
And it was totally useless.
They couldn't document it.
It was the old thing.
You there's no there, there you can't document this thing, so he sort of gave up.
All right, Skinwalker Ranch, there you go.
Um, and there's even let me just mention one thing there's if you listen to help put off the interview that was done last week on Coast to Coast, you'll hear he talks about the kind of material that he was able to collect.
This one South African, South American case, he's got like 14 hours of film, thousand uh, uh, sightings.
He's got like, it sounds like a room just on one thing.
So he was had the money, he knew where to get the material, and he just bought up the material.
And what he says in that 2013.
Is very important what he says.
He says that if a company gets it, it's proprietary information and they spent the money and they deserve to get it.
And that's exactly what put off says now it's proprietary.
Bigelow owns it, and you have to negotiate with Bigelow to get out the 36 reports, to get out the 24 videos.
He controls, he's used government money, other people's money, and he controls all the data, all the video from 2007 on.
He controls the whole show.
Brilliant move by Govigal.
It's incredible.
We had the same idea.
Yeah, exactly.
It's turning everything into intellectual property.
It's turning it into private.
It's the copyright wars.
This is what they knew, the IP wars.
Right.
That's what was scary about the story I was hearing about these contractors who were trying to kidnap abductees and hybrids for private entities, not for some military purpose, but for some private corporations.
If they knew that they were there, I could definitely see that there'd be a huge market for them.
Well, it was that they would.
The rewards were massive, and that they were willing to go ahead and just hide, just kidnap people because of the law.
Just amazing.
This is absolutely incredible information.
Let's do this.
Let's take some questions for Olivia.
You've got questions?
Oh, my God.
I know there's a lot of them, so we're going to try to.
It is crazy tonight.
I have not been able to keep up.
You're doing great.
So let's do this.
Whatever you prioritize, go for it, and we'll try to get them for grant here.
Okay, so.
Sunday Big Event00:02:27
Blue Sky asks, why would we, experiencers, want the military to know our experiences?
Why would we want the military to know our experiences?
We, experiencers.
We, experiencers.
So, why should an experiencer want to tell the military anything?
Go ahead.
Well, because the MILAB stuff is not nice stuff.
People who, if you ever interview Melinda Leslie, she's the expert on this.
Melinda will tell you, If you've had an alien abduction and an abduction by the government, you take an alien abduction anytime.
They are really, you know, with the drugs or however they do it, they're pretty rough, the government people.
And it's a pretty bad experience.
So, you absolutely, nobody's volunteering for this.
These people are being grabbed.
This is a military abduction, and they're being grabbed, and they're being tested on how psychic they are.
Did the aliens tell you how this thing worked?
And one of the rumors, I don't know if this is true, they give them a piece of material that's been recovered from a flying saucer, and you can tell if that person is a real experiencer because they can make it work.
Nobody else can make it work.
Well, the MyLab stuff I think is interesting, and Melinda Leslie is a great source for that.
I absolutely agree that if they're going for that type.
Of experience, and they're going to be very harsh.
Next question, what do you got?
Okay, Diabolical Oracle, ask Grant when the next video footage will be released.
Yeah, so there was going to be video footage released from this Tom DeLong thing for January.
And when do you think they will actually release that next video?
Well, Mel said last week, very shortly, one more video that he's seen.
And then there's an event, and I don't want to ruin it, I don't want to step on their show, let them run it.
But the next big event that will make world news will happen on a Sunday.
On this Sunday.
On a Sunday.
Oh, on a Sunday.
Great, great, great.
Okay, that's good to know.
What else?
Big event coming.
There's another big event, a New York Times style event coming.
It's okay.
It's exciting.
It's exciting so far.
Andrew Gask, what is Leslie Kane's timeline for the next report?
I think he just answered that, actually.
So keep going.
There you go.
I want to say this, though Kane, who's a great journalist, and Knapp, who's a great journalist.
Are asking really softball questions when they get these people in front of them.
I watched the Las Vegas interaction with George Knapp interviewing Elizondo.
Threatening Evil Aliens00:11:06
And I mean, where are the tough questions?
And did you, when he was interviewing Put Off, and these are good discussions, but all the tough questions, you know, are just put on the shelf.
You must notice that.
You've been watching, working with these guys for 20, 30 years.
What do you think of that?
I mean, it's something I'm imagining, or are they going to.
That's the problem you get when you get firsthand with the witnesses.
That's why I always have somebody between me and.
And like, I've never talked to Ron Pendolfi, but I have a lot of people who are interacting for me.
You always stay up, but once you get into that thing, I mean, Leslie Kane, I knew her when she first got in, and she's put a Pendolfi and what's his name?
Hillary's campaign manager, Podesta.
She's Podesta's good friend, and Podesta's part of this thing as well.
He's helping unravel this thing.
So she's the type of person.
That's why I said in this whole thing, you'll see they don't talk about aliens.
And that's, I think, part of Leslie's input into this thing.
Yeah, this is what I was talking about earlier, Alexander.
Remember this?
Yes.
You can talk about the threat.
You can talk about the craft.
You can talk about the technology.
But when they say, is it an alien we're talking about?
They say, no, we're talking about this technology threat.
That's it.
Yeah.
It's like, you know what?
Why is that?
Well, it's the whole idea.
Leslie always has this idea, you know, you can't call it UFOs.
I remember we used to go to conferences.
And I'd say, come watch this guy's lecture or some bizarre lecture, whatever.
She would never go in the room.
It's sort of like, I'm not one of these people.
And so she's like, they want to be the independent journalist or the independent.
And scientists play the same thing.
I have lots of ufologists where I'm talking to them, like you and I, and we're talking.
And then they go on camera and they say, we don't know what's going on.
It's a big mystery.
And I'm going, what are you talking about?
And it's the old idea of like, we want to be skeptical.
We've got to be skeptical.
We've got to be undecided.
And so that's a totally public pose.
Yeah, you're trying to, even the thing where you pulled Tom DeLong out of it.
You don't want this real wild thing that upsets all the scientists, all the journalists.
You want to sort of drag them in slowly and say, Oh, we've discovered this mysterious phenomenon.
We don't know what it is.
And you drag them in.
That's like the confirmation.
And then we'll tell them about the aliens.
And Leslie's perfect at that thing because she does believe that.
She'll never use the word UFO.
When I put up a Hillary Clinton website, she came to me and said, What are you doing?
You're destroying it for everybody.
And I said, What do you mean?
And she said, What do you think you're going to get her to talk?
And I said, Well, no, I'm putting up a Hillary Clinton website.
She's interested in the subject.
I'm just going to put what she says, what happens, whatever.
And it's like, but it's sort of like you're upsetting it.
I mean, she knows about aliens.
She was married to Bud Hopkins for years.
I mean, yeah, and she did the defense.
When he got attacked on some of his interviews, she defended him.
But it's your public position.
So all these people are playing the public position.
Don't you think, is that a little just as an aside, because you're deep in there?
And, you know, don't you think it smacks a little bit of insincerity?
I mean, I know they're after a story and I can appreciate that.
But somebody like Knapp, whose whole legend is built around revealing Bob Lazar in Area 51, isn't it ridiculous for him to sit there with Elizondo and say, yes, you know, or let somebody like put off, get away with, you know, we need to get to the bottom of this.
I mean, you know, there's 70 years of research and they're pretending like there's this.
Coming into this historical vacuum that they just discovered the UFO phenomenon December 16th.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm not sure about NAP, but I know with the actual operation before it got to NAP, because NAP knew about it in 2007.
He says quite clearly.
He knew when this thing started.
He'd been told by Bigelow.
He was a fly on the wall.
He sat there and he knew what was going on and stuff.
And so he got into it.
But when you take a look at it, I pointed out in one of my updates, I pointed out the thing that they changed, for example, when I did the book, I said this idea about evil aliens.
This is like we're going to use nuclear weapons, we're going to shoot them up in the atmosphere and take down the aliens.
I said, This is crazy stuff.
And so, when they did the October 11th thing, you'll see at the very beginning, and I can't show it because I don't have copyright to this thing.
At the very beginning, you've got Tom DeLong on there, and he's talking about the three things he discovered there's things that we should never have classified, there are something else, and then there's things that were so threatening and disturbing that you will never know about them.
When they played that, they changed it, they redid that thing in the beginning, and they took the word threatening out because they don't worth the word threatening.
They're selling it.
You see how they did it.
Mellon comes out and he says, Oh, this is like the age of Sputnik.
We've got this challenge.
We're going to go to the moon.
We're going to have free energy.
And you're selling it.
But you don't want to sell the thing.
And now they're selling it on the threat because the Russians might get it.
And Hell put off since the other night.
He actually said, and John Greenwald, who was on last week, John and I were talking about this.
And John says, This is a bad, bad omen.
He said, I have read highly classified, no, detailed, classified documents that show the extent of the Russian program on UFOs.
Well, that basically is you're playing into this threat thing.
The Russians are going to get it.
The Chinese are going to get it.
They may be evil aliens.
We don't know.
We got to spend all this defense money.
That sounds like Elizondo.
Yeah, and that scares the daylights out of a lot of the UFO community who are yelling, you know, false flag.
And, you know, they're going to pull this thing on us.
But that is what they're selling because that's where the money is.
Unless you sell a threat, you need piles of money.
You can't build a flying saucer with, you know, $2 million.
You need defense money.
You need contractors to put it in.
So you have to sell the threat.
Hey, it's a new Cold War.
There's a lot of money to be made in that.
Yeah.
And the only people that have money is the Defense Department.
They get $760 billion a year.
Right.
Okay, let's take a couple more questions.
They can even fake an invasion.
Remember, that was part of Hillary's campaign.
The consultant was disgusted.
Yeah, it was Vernivan Braun.
Yeah, the thing about that.
And I was sort of, I mean, I know they were after me, you know, that I was sort of defending Tom DeLong.
That if I, I was told, you know, it was people saying that if I didn't defend Tom DeLong, his whole operation would have folded and that this is this false flag thing.
And I'm going, I'm holding up Tom Blanc, and that was two days later.
Suddenly, he did the December 16th thing and then suddenly went viral.
But people had before they were saying the only reason that Tom DeLong was still operational because I was saying good things about him.
It was like bizarre.
I mean, I'm not on anybody's team.
Right, right, right.
No, but the thing, the greatest thing about you is regardless of which end of the fence somebody's coming from, they can go to you for the information because you've got the information on the players and you've got the history.
So it doesn't matter if somebody's super pro on that, you know, kind of funky disclosure that DeLong is trying or if you're somebody like me.
Who sees through a lot of the things that they're doing and the intelligence influence?
I have a simple rule.
When I see a lot of billionaires and I see a lot of CIA people trying to promote something, I look twice and I really go deep on it.
And the thing is, this operation is surrounded by a lot of money and a lot of intelligence.
That's been the big push here.
And I think, is there a danger?
And this is a good question because you've been around this for a long time.
Is there a danger of good UFO researchers and journalists like Knapp, like Kane, and people of this ilk who I do respect and I think they're great journalists?
But could they get corrupted in a game like this where it seems like they're getting on the big story?
And could they be maybe not as objective as they should be?
It's a reasonable thing.
What do you think?
Yeah, yeah, I can see your point.
I mean, there is a problem that people in the UFO community, it's like people will come to me and say, you shouldn't listen to Pandolfi or whatever they're saying, that people want to grab onto something.
And it's like, so they grab onto Stephen Greer and then something that falls apart.
And then they go grab onto Tom DeLong.
And people almost want a shepherd or a messiah.
That for a lot of people, it's not really serious.
It's entertainment.
And they're looking for someone who's got the answers.
And what I keep saying is nobody has the answers.
These are all puppets.
The guys that have the answers, this is all classified material.
They may know in the background, but they're not about to come out.
Because if they want to come out, they stand somebody up and make a news conference.
They're not doing that.
They're doing this gradual disclosure thing.
And you should not get roped into this thing of believing that somebody's actually telling the honest to God truth.
Or they question Trump.
Trump gets asked a question by this Jordan guy.
In the thing, she said, I'll ask the president and I'll come around and come back to you.
She never did.
That's critically important.
You're still playing the plausibility and liability game.
The president's an idiot.
He doesn't know what's going on.
We don't want to get into this thing.
Keep it at a distance and stuff like that.
Yeah.
Well, wasn't it Knapp who said that they didn't even tell him about the New York Times article until the day after or something like that?
I mean, that's what he had put out, which didn't make any sense.
And he's just repeating what somebody else said.
They said that Trump didn't know until four days later watching Fox News.
So when I did an update, I showed Fox News, they had it the same day.
And he watches Fox News supposedly eight hours a day or whatever.
And he watched Fox News for four days.
Right there, yeah.
Absolutely.
The question that was asked to the press secretary was asked on the third day.
And the press secretary told Jordan, and he went to talk to her after, and she said, We knew that this might be one of the questions that would be asked, but we didn't think anybody would ask the question, but we were prepared for the question.
And so they knew the question was coming, but the president didn't know.
This is like total.
That's what it is.
Yeah, I 100% agree with you there.
And no, I mean, and like I say, when I'm talking about these journalists, I'm only talking about them because they are the Pillars of responsible journalism around it, like Leslie Kane's book on military and the UFOs, a sensational book.
So, you know, I'm not pointing out that, you know, they're doing something wrong.
I'm saying it seems to me that they're engaged in a kind of softball, and I'm trying to figure out why, because they're usually pretty hard hitting journalists.
But anyway, let's move from that and go to the next question.
Okay, go three con.
Why are they going through all of this for disclosure?
Why this convoluted drip of info?
Why the convoluted drip of info instead of coming out with the real McCoy?
Because you've got to control the story.
If you drop the story, you spill the milk and you lose control of the story.
And in government, you don't do anything unless you absolutely know what's going to happen.
And that's what the Brookings Institute.
And I believe Bigelow said there were a couple of other think tanks who came to the same conclusion that this has got to be done slowly.
This has got to be gradually leaked out there.
And that if you drop it, you can't pull it back.
Once you say they're here to eat us or whatever the story is or whatever it is, the story's over.
Then you lose control.
And then all the UFO people are the authorities.
Then it's sort of like you lied to us, now we're going to believe these people.
And there's people who believe they're eating us in a McDonald's on the backside of the moon.
And there's all these bizarre stories.
So, not only do you got to deal with the fact that you're considered to be a liar, all these bizarre stories about what's actually going on, you're going to have to address these stories.
And they really don't want to do that because we sell the game theory.
Would you say part of this also is that agencies like the CIA, for example, have withheld these things?
And in many cases, like you said, they get you to cooperate or they kill you.
Losing Control of Disclosure00:15:40
I mean, they have quite a track record there.
It's just the kind of thing that they can't really admit to their own past.
So, they're kind of doing this Mandela effect where, by the way, they've been great, they've been fighting these evil aliens for us.
Yeah, I think they've been doing this since World War II.
I think it all started in World War II that they were so effective by how they started to compartmentalize material, how they got all the weapons, how they won the war, how they got control, they got all the high tech stuff.
And it's worked so well the way they've spun the history.
It's like the people who have the gold write the history.
And that's what's happening.
The United States of America has got all the money, and they're basically telling all these stories about how there's all these bad guys.
And probably half of everything that we've been told is not true.
It's the way they've spun it, and they've done it so well.
They're just doing it again.
They just keep doing it.
And it's a plan.
They know exactly how to do this.
They know how to roll it out.
They know, and they've done it not just in the UFO area, they've done it in all sorts of areas as to American interest.
Even the idea where you've even terrorism, where we say, you know, some guy blows up a school bus and five people get killed or whatever.
And then I think it was like 731 people last year were killed.
You know, and they call them accidental deaths in bombings in Afghanistan and Syria.
And so you change the term.
Like if they kill somebody, it's a terrorism.
If we do it, it's an accidental death.
They're always spinning.
Collateral damage right there.
Now, there is a point there, though, when I think about this, because you're talking about drones there, and the Drone King recently came out, John Brennan, who, as I understand it now, Elizondo reported to Brennan.
But Brennan was the Obama CIA director, known as the Drone King.
And he came out last week and said, I definitely think UFOs should be studied.
So now, have you caught up with that?
Oh, yeah.
I did an update on that.
And that's Billy Cox had.
Had talked to three CIA people about that.
He started with Chase Brandon, where he tried to go in the back door when they said, No, we couldn't find the records Chase Brandon was looking for.
He actually phoned the archivist at home and said, Did you look for the documents?
And he said, CIA's made a statement, I can't talk about it.
Then Robert Gates came to Florida in 2013.
He was friends with Chase Brandon, and Gates was the guy that was behind the 1991 disclosure initiative.
They were going to disclose in 1991 under Bush, and Gates and Kissinger were part of it.
And so he asked him, and he said, You know, I've never in all my years, I've never seen anything that confirms bodies and that sort of thing.
But then suddenly the Tom DeLong thing comes, and now you have confirmation.
There's a mystery, something's going on, we're looking at it.
And suddenly you see, you go from Gates saying, There's nothing going on, nothing.
Suddenly Brennan comes, and Brennan says, Confirmation.
Yeah, there's something going on.
I think we should study it.
They've made the move, and now it's safe for this guy.
It wouldn't have been safe for him to do it before this sort of thing.
So, everybody's made the move now, and it's safe because that's what I was told a year ago.
People forget that Tom DeLong got pulled out of it.
I was told this a long time ago that high level people, I was told a year ago, high level people would come out, they would identify who they were, and they would say this thing's for real.
I thought, crazy.
No way is high level officials going to.
It's exactly what happened.
Elizondo, Justice, all these people came out and said, I'm in the government, and it's for real.
That's his confirmation.
And now you see Brennan's gone there, and the government is more and more will go there.
Where they'll say, Yeah, there's a mystery, whatever, and they're trying to cover up for that 1947 mistake they made, but they're not going to, when it goes to bodies and stuff, that's down the road.
So it's, we get people used to the idea, and we're slowly moving them down that road.
Right.
So, for example, you know that the government has crash retrievals.
We have a long history of crash retrievals and materials, et cetera.
So to talk about metal alloys with Bigelow thing is a total smokescreen.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And the stuff I think that Bigelow is talking about is only 2007.
In fact, I've, The one story I know, I've got an actual piece from one of the sites.
Oh, wow.
And this is a, I don't know if you've heard the story of Diane Posolka.
She's part of, there's like 100 people.
She's part of what's called the Cosmic Club.
It's 40 people, it's like the Avery, academics, people who can't talk about it in the public, whatever.
And she talked about being taken to a site in New Mexico by a guy in Nassau.
And I know who this guy is.
She was taken there, and they were blindfolded to the site.
And they were taken to this site.
And it was my friend that took the Nassau guy there.
And so I went and asked him about this sort of thing.
And so that's the part of the medal that they're going to have.
The other medal they're going to have is the stuff that Valet's talking about, where it's shot off a UFO and everybody always thought it was these pieces of metal.
Everybody always thought it was a hoax.
The person's making up the story.
And he says it's real.
The isotopes are wrong.
And then there's this layered piece of metal that Tom DeLong.
And this is like the films.
It's the same thing.
How do you get this thing?
I call it the high hurdle.
How do you get this thing out?
And the government says, yes, this is a piece of metal that we recovered from a UFO.
I mean, how do you make that move?
Because you risk.
The thing disclosing.
You risk the thing getting out of control, and then everybody suddenly going to the president and saying, What the heck's going on?
And then it all falls apart because he's the Wizard of Oz.
He's the right running the cover up, and suddenly you get pressure where you don't want pressure.
So there's this layered piece that I've heard, you know, 36 layers, 80 layers, or whatever, thin as a hair where it's all layered.
And this is apparently what's going to show up at the Grove next week in this meeting.
Fascinating.
I think he only owns the material from 2007 on.
I don't think he has the early material.
That's still Area 51 or wherever they've got that material.
He's only got it from the time that he took that contract, I think.
So, you think that the direction that they're moving in, this Pandolfi direction, is so that they can employ this idea of a threat coming from this unknown technology warbling around in the sky?
To finance it.
Yeah, definitely.
What Putoff said last week is that we need money because they asked him, Where are you going with this thing?
And he said, Well, we need to have the money in order to do what we want to do.
And what he wants to do is he wants to build a flank saucer.
So, you need this money.
The only place you're going to get the money is from the defense department, and you're going to have to spin the threat.
You're not going to get the money from the general public.
They tried.
They got $2 million.
Nobody bought into it.
You're going to have the defense money.
And that's why they're doing the threat thing.
Because they asked, they said, is it a threat?
And then they all say the same thing.
They say, no, it didn't show any threat.
But you never know.
So we always have to be prepared.
That's their excuse, even though it's no threat.
In fact, Eric Davis pointed out the fact that the Nimitz thing, they were ordered to shoot it down.
So the thing is, who's the enemy?
The Pogo cartoon.
We have met the enemy and he is us.
We're the idiots.
We're the ones that tried to shoot it down.
A quick question for you.
Why are they superimposing the gimbal footage when they have Fravor come out and talk?
Why is it always the gimbal, gimbal, gimbal, and they don't use the actual event that he saw?
But they have the one with these pilots talking.
And the inference there is that it's him talking back and forth.
But that's not the case.
That's not the footage that he saw.
Well, that's where I got in a lot of trouble because I said the films are altered.
That's the way I say they got the films out.
It's like the MJ Full document.
You take a document, you change two words in the document, you put it out, and then you say it's a hoax.
It's a hoax, but all you've done is altered it.
So what I said is because you know there was the 2007.
Yes, video that appeared in the German uh website in 2007.
Then it was posted to YouTube and it was on top above top secret.
People talking about it, stuff like that.
Yeah, that thing has been around forever.
Yeah, yeah.
And that one has no sound.
I don't care what Eric Davis or help put up says that one has no sound.
The one when you play uh the one that to the stars plays, it has this voice and this sound in the background.
And so they it it has been altered and that is to make it out.
So it's not that it's the it's the video.
But it's been altered, so it's a hoax.
It's not the so they can say that they can move it out and say it's unclassified.
You can move it out because we've altered the video.
And there's no doubt.
I played both.
You can tell.
A five year old kid can figure out there's noise on the one and there's no noise on the other.
So that's what they're doing.
And the one, as you know, was 2015 off the coast of Florida, the one with the voices.
And so people say, well, you're denying what you're denying the pilots.
I said, as far as I know, they never asked the pilots about the video.
That's right.
And I'm not denying.
Nimitz happened.
No doubt about it.
There were objects there for two weeks.
But what you do is, how do you take that story and put it into the public?
What you do is you spin it, as they've done it for 70 years.
You spin it, you change it, you fictionalize it, and you put it into the public so that it's possible to drive out.
They conflated those two events because they wanted to give credence to this other video.
And that video, it looks very much like it's just gimbal footage that, you know, there's a whole video that came out sort of debunking it, which is the Goddard's Journal analysis on it.
And it really shows that most of the effects that you see in that camera.
Could be this gimbal camera looking at a jet fighter, yeah, yeah.
I, I, but I have no doubt in the film.
I just think they've altered the film.
I, and and what they didn't point out at first when the New York Times and what the thing that other people miss is it's not just the New York Times, it was the New York Times, the Washington Post, and Political all went the same day.
It was coordinated by Jim Semivan.
And Jim Semivan, I got a photograph of him with Voice of America, the woman who owns Voice of America.
So he's the guy who knows how to do this.
It was very carefully orchestrated for all these people to go at the same time.
And so when the videos came out, they didn't mention, they just mentioned Nimitz and they showed the video, but they didn't mention that that other one was 2015 and a different video.
Exactly.
The question is, why would you not distinguish between them?
And the same thing.
That's up to you right from the start.
Yeah, Eric Davis got upset with me.
The other thing that people made, I don't know if I've noticed, when you look at the 2011 news conference, when Mellon starts to talk, there's a picture behind him.
Looks like a tic tac thing.
And I looked at that.
It's not from the, I asked Eric Davis, I said, is that from the tic tac video?
And then he said, I don't know what Melon said.
And then he came back and he was really upset.
And he said, You know, any more stupid questions, whatever?
And he confirmed, No.
And I had already found it.
It's a balloon from 2005 in England.
And the reason they used it was because they didn't have the Tic Tac video yet.
And they were looking for a picture.
And they stuck this to it.
But then Nat puts it on his first TV.
That's fascinating.
But people don't realize that they're altering it.
That's what I'm saying.
They're altering it.
These are productions.
I mean, To the Stars Academy is a motion picture company.
That's how they're incorporated.
I mean, this is what.
Yeah, I mean, it's entertainment on that level.
What journalistic test would that pass?
That wouldn't pass muster anywhere.
But they're not doing journalism.
They're selling a story.
They're selling something.
And that's where they're selling something.
They're fictionalizing and privatizing and making intellectual property.
And it's copyright protected.
And it helps the government by privatizing things because you don't have the responsibility anymore.
You don't have to worry about FOIAs, all this kind of stuff.
And what they want is somebody outside the government to do disclosure.
And that's why they've moved it to private industry.
So if Bigelow comes out and says it's for real and everybody believes it, nobody's going to blame the government.
Otherwise, you're going to have to be.
I'm the government and I'm disclosing and I'm going to take the rap for this.
They want somebody outside the government to do the disclosure.
That's why they're moving this thing into private industry.
Fascinating.
Last, no, we just have a couple minutes left.
Grant, amazing, incredible stuff.
I think we know so much more about the entire operation now.
Final two questions, Olivia.
Mike Price asks Would you rather not know and be a journalist trying to find out or be an insider and know for sure?
Well, I answered that before.
I was offered an insight.
And I turned it down.
I said, no, I absolutely do not want to.
I want to be on the outside where I'm independent.
Where basically what I do is I watch 100 people, and when someone says something, I make it public.
And I put as much as I can public.
I put a lot of my stuff on my White House UFO YouTube channel, what I hear, what's happening, and stuff, and let people decide for themselves.
That's my thing it's like a chess game for me.
It's trying to figure out.
But if you get inside the story, then suddenly you become embroiled in the story.
You've got friends in the story, and then you start to mess up.
You start taking aside.
And this story is so complex, there's so many people involved.
All I'm trying to do is put out as much material as I can, as fast as I can, as to who's talking and what they're saying.
Amazing.
And that's your whole point there about being a chess player as opposed to a chess piece.
I totally see what you're saying.
The other question How has the media's attitude changed since December 16th?
Okay, that's actually a good question, which is how is the media in general, who's not in on this, they're kind of, there are certain.
Outlets that are in on it, like the New York Times is the lost leader on this one, and everyone falls around the New York Times on it.
But how do you think the media has treated the UFO subject since the original release, December 16th, of this New York Times?
I think it's changed big time.
I think even the attitude of people in the street that people are because you and I know the intricacies of there's a problem with the film, there's a problem here, and all and what's happening behind the scenes.
But the average guy on the street doesn't see all that kind of stuff, they just go, Did you see that video?
Holy and and I think it's really moved the consciousness.
The same as the media, I point out.
With questions in the media, whether it's the Hillary thing or it's this, it moved it a big time because there's in White House history, there was a question asked of Eisenhower in January of 1954 a UFO question.
There was a question asked in 1997 about Webster Hubble to the Clinton White House.
And then not until Hillary came out and said, Oh, I'm going to disclose, and the New York Times on May the 10th, 2016, did this straight up piece.
Suddenly there were three White House reporters who asked a question inside the White House.
And then when this happens, The White House asks, they ask another question, and there's not people moving away and laughing or whatever.
It's a serious question.
In fact, the one woman that asked the question in May, this African American reporter said to him, You're trying to walk around this.
You're not going to get away with this.
And it was like the attitude of the media had changed.
The only thing that I think has happened is that there's still the Trump story is bigger.
It's still you're running after the Trump story, that this still isn't the biggest story.
But the New York Times said it was the biggest story they've done.
And I think they've realized in some ways that's been had.
And it's not like when the question was asked in 1997, Deborah Oren asked the question.
And she said, I asked a question about Webster Hubble saying, Bill Clinton sent me out to go find out other UFOs and who killed JFK.
And I couldn't find the answers and put it in the book and stuff.
So she asked, and the press secretary said, Oh, no, we gave that to the alien to do.
There was this alien that was on the Weekly World News.
That was his job.
And so he walks down the corner.
She follows up.
She says, Is what Mr. Hubble says in his book true?
And he said, I'm not going to comment on what private people put in their private books.
And then she said, I sat there and I waited.
For someone else in the press room to follow up, and they all rolled over and played dead because they were afraid to lose their White House credentials.
And I think that's changed.
I think that it's not anymore sort of a thing where if you ask a UFO question in the White House, where Newsweek's going to pull your credentials and send you back to court reporting.
Well, little did Hubble know that the two questions answer each other if you get into the JFK UFO part.
Highest Level Officials00:04:02
Go ahead.
I just want to mention one thing that might interest you.
I filed a lot of FOIAs.
I like John Greenwald, he has done phenomenal work.
But I was doing stuff early, and I did the one with the Clintons.
I did 100 FOAs at the Clinton Library.
And the one that I don't know if anything ever got done was because Hubble had asked that question.
I, of course, asked for all the UFO files and different things, you know, Rockefeller and all these names, all these different FOAs.
But I also asked for the Kennedy assassination files.
There were 7,500 pages.
I don't know if anybody ever reviewed the material.
Wow.
It's still there.
I don't know if anybody ever went to it to look at it.
That is fascinating.
That is fascinating.
Well, we'll follow up on that, actually, because that's a great point.
A lot of the records that were promised originally in that 1992 document for 25 years later, which is October 26, 2017, which we had the original release, and then they started to hold back on it.
We did a special on it.
And one of the interesting things about those records is they're only the records that they knew about in 1992.
So in the interim, there was a reporter named Jefferson Morley from the Washington Post who resigned because he had a story all about Joe Anniddies, who ran the CIA aspect of the JFK assassination.
And nobody even knew this guy existed, so they didn't have any of the records in that batch that the ARRB put out.
So it is interesting when you get into it because that would be an interesting place to go.
So we'll definitely follow up on that.
Grant, amazing work, incredible work, and great scope.
Final question, Olivia.
What does Grant see as the government's ultimate endgame in relation to UFOs?
And connected to that, what are the chances another country will disclose before the USA?
Okay, two questions.
What's the government endgame?
It's a very long term plan.
I think number one, like everything else in the United States of America, weaponize it first.
Then spin it into private industry.
Then the public will get it, like GPS.
We're going to make some weapon stuff first, and then the people will get this spin off, or Teflon, or all these types of measures.
So it's a long term thing.
They're interested in the government into national security and stuff.
The citizens are secondary, whereas the citizens think Santa Claus is going to come give us free energy and stuff like that.
The other one is an interesting question.
One of the people that was in the Avery, who was, his name was Scott Jones, who was the guy who went into the Clinton White House to help Rockefeller brief the president's science advisor.
He worked for Claiborne Pell, the senator Claiborne Pell, who was into paranormal phenomena.
He wasn't so much into UFOs, but he had a fantastic job where he would just, every day, he would just go to, you know, see psychics and go to UFO conferences.
Well, let's just say this about Pell.
He was the senator from Rhode Island, and he's the Pell Grant.
That's he's the guy, Pelgrim.
Go ahead, he's the head of the foreign relations.
He was the ranking Democratic senator in the Senate at the time.
And so he sent Jones to Russia and to China.
And when he was there, because they don't understand our system of levels of government, just because you're working for Claymore and Pell doesn't mean you're the government.
You're just working down in some agency, whatever.
And they said, no, no, you're working for the government.
And he told the story of trying to negotiate for a piece of alien tissue from the Russians.
And he was unsuccessful.
And then when he was at the Chinese, he was dealing with the highest level of the Chinese government.
And they thought he was the highest level.
And he said, No, I'm just working for Claiborne Pell.
Oh, no, you're working for the government.
And they just didn't understand what his thing was.
So he said to them, Why don't you disclose?
Why don't you disclose before the Americans?
You've been working on this problem.
And what he was told by the Chinese, he said, When the Americans disclose, we'll be a close second.
That's all I can say.
That was what he was told by high level Chinese officials.
Now, what that means, or I think behind the scenes, they're all working together.
Because you have this thing where you're going to shoot down each other's planes.
You have to have these agreements and stuff.
Negotiating Alien Tissue00:08:51
And intelligence agencies, I'm sure there's some cooperation on there as to how this operates.
But none of the other countries has even operated or talked about it.
And that's the whole thing about this thing about disclosure and cover up is that the rest of the countries, if you go to Australia, what are they doing?
I don't know.
They don't talk about it.
China doesn't.
You're a bit pined out there, I guess.
Brazil formed a citizens committee.
Part of the government, but they say we don't have a budget for this.
But if volunteers want to do something and report and organize some things, in terms of real doc, a lot of people say the Canadians released the British release, they're disclosing.
I'm saying they're disclosing, they're releasing, you know, the junk files, people writing to the president, stuff like that.
And they're, I want to see the files between the prime minister and the head of the defense department as to what's actually going on.
The top secret stuff, there's no top secret stuff, whether it's WikiLeaks or whoever it is, all you're getting is low level, unclassified material.
The real top secret stuff in every government is hidden, and the only place it's talked about is in the United States of America.
Amazing.
Wow, incredible stuff.
Grant, people can find your work at presidentialufos.com.
Yeah, most of the stuff I now put on my YouTube channel because the young people convinced me that most people don't read books anymore and they don't read articles, so you got to do little 12 minute YouTube videos.
So that's most of my stuff is being put out on updates.
I've done about six updates on the long thing.
Or about eight updates on the DeLong thing.
So every week or two, a week, I'll put out a DeLong update.
This is what I've heard latest.
These are the people.
This is what they're saying.
So that's where I put most of my stuff on YouTube, White House UFO YouTube.
Okay, fantastic.
Yeah, and those are great videos.
I really recommend that channel.
The last thing is what you were calling portals there and that whole South American connection.
What was the name of that group again?
It was called RAMA, Project RAMA.
Project RAMA.
Sometimes it's spelled R A M A and sometimes it's spelled.
Spelled R A H M A, but I can send you some of the material that some of even the draft of the books you can see.
I think it's, I say seriously, with without a question, it is the biggest story I've seen in 42 years in terms of actual witnesses where you've actually got films, you've actually got eyewitnesses.
Because people say, Oh, that person just imagined I said there was 10 witnesses that saw this alien, they were standing 20 yards away from this thing.
That and I'm going like, I couldn't believe when I actually had this thing, and it's got to do with this.
Like an interdimensional bubble, almost like they create it between their world and our world, but it's there, it's them that are opening it.
I don't really think that we have the portal technology that we can go anywhere.
It's the aliens, almost like Jim Semivan.
There was a story that was told that Jim Semivan, that John Alexander was taken to Semivan.
And Semivan told him this is all for real and the whole thing.
And John, of course, he's on this thing about nobody knows.
He said, So who's running it?
And Jim Semivan said, They are.
They're running the show.
This Rama group is in Peru.
Is that right?
They started in Peru.
There's 10,000 around the world now.
There's groups all over the world.
And there's five major.
Contactee guys who are sort of able to open these Zendras and they, the events that I was involved with were at Mount Shasta, California.
So, um, and I got a message from an alien, and it was just uh, when you see the story, it's like I couldn't believe that's that's way more exciting than this weird, funky disclosure.
It actually has evidence that you can actually, uh, you know, it's not the thing where you got to try to figure out what the Ron Pandolfi's latest rhyme and riddle.
Like, what the hell's it talking about?
Yeah, it's like don't wait for the government, don't wait for the government for oh my god, absolutely.
I put that together.
Alexandra, do you have any last questions for Grant before we leave?
Well, we'll be here for another five hours.
Good point.
We're going to have to have you back, Grant.
That's all there is to it.
I've enjoyed you following the story.
I watch your stuff on the story.
You're one of the people on my list, my 100 people.
Fantastic.
Listen, you have the best information on that, and I wouldn't miss it.
You do great updates on Facebook as well as YouTube.
Great stuff.
When is the magic book coming out?
Well, the magic book was out last year.
I put it out before all this happened.
I put it out, and I have about one third of the book is on Tom DeLon.
And I, whatever you saw now, I was in the book already.
There's not much, really, not much I would change except the portal thing.
I'm having some doubts on the portal, whether there is a portal.
The story was that Firmich, and I've got two pretty good sources that say, no, he doesn't have a portal.
That's the only part of the book that would change.
But in the book, I set up the 14 magicians, Sammy Van, Pandolfi, Kit Green, all these people who are feeding the material, and the five messiahs.
Stephen Greer, Tim Cooper, who did the 3700 MJ12 document, Dan Smith, and the latest Messiah is Tom DeLong.
Like now they don't call him Tom DeLong, they call him Tom DeJesus now.
Like he walks on water, the Cooper guy, and everybody's following him.
Cooper was the burnt memo guy.
That's that to me.
And that's what people don't realize because they'll say, oh, Richard Doty, who was actually on last night, he's reappeared now.
It's the whole thing.
Yeah, he's coming out, he's out of retirement.
Yeah, he's in, and you know, whether he's playing part of this game or whatever, but he's back.
And so it's just, you know, a thing that just keeps developing, but it's almost like on steroids.
Like, I've been in this for 42 years, and as I said, they've been doing this for 42 years, but they are on steroids the last two years.
What I was told by a very good source that was right on everything he told me was that this is in early 2016, that they have a plan.
They know exactly what they're doing.
They're not playing around.
They have an exact plan with times and stuff like this, and that there are multiple teams and that they're trying to move this thing for whatever reason.
And one of the dates I heard was 2025.
But again, they just keep pushing it down the road.
But it's very, very accelerated, small d disclosure, confirmation, whatever you want to call it.
I've never seen anything like it in 42 years.
They've always been doing this kind of stuff.
But what they're doing now.
It's definitely in a surge.
They're in a surge right now.
Yeah, they're not even worried.
The people aren't even worried about talking like when you get Brennan.
He wasn't worried.
I mean, that was dramatic.
I mean, 10 years ago, can you imagine?
I mean, he didn't even care.
He was like totally open.
He was relaxed.
Yeah, yeah, we should study UFOs and stuff.
And it's completely contrary to the government.
And so it's open and it's really moving.
And the full title of the magic book is Managing Magic, the Government's UFO Disclosure Plan.
Fantastic.
And that's available on Amazon?
Yep.
Okay, great.
People could find that.
Olivia?
One last question.
Everybody wants to know where Grant gets his energy.
That's a good question, actually.
In May of 1975, a thing flew right in front of the car.
And my life absolutely changed.
And I've been obsessed.
It's like most people will talk about in the UFO community.
It's like people say, oh, the guy quit.
He's left the UFO community.
They go, yeah, I'll be back.
Nobody gets out.
I mean, it's like, no way.
It's like you get down the rabbit hole.
And that's why I said, like, this is the last story I want to do.
I want to do the Zendra story.
I want to do consciousness.
I have a book on Goldwater's files coming out.
I have a music book on the connection between UFOs and music.
Unbelievable.
Yes.
Those are fascinating.
The Goldwater thing is fascinating too.
We're going to want to know about those.
That Zendra book, when is that coming out?
Well, I got delayed.
It was three quarters done.
And then I got dragged back into this stupid thing with Tom DeLong when he made the announcement and stuff.
And suddenly all these people are.
All right, so 2018?
Well, there are two events in Mount Shasta.
One is in August, one in September, where they may open Zendras.
I'm going there, and there are two different teams.
They're sort of fighting too.
So I'm going to go to one event, then go back to California for the second event, and then I'm going to release the book.
I'm going to see if something opens there, if I can be in one of these Zendra events where they actually open a Zendra.
And then the book will be out.
But I'll give you a draft of what I've got done so far.
Oh, yeah, I definitely want to see it.
It sounds incredible.
It really does.
And that's a very exciting section.
We could probably do a show on that because, frankly, it sounds really powerful.
And I want to get into it with you.
That's all the aliens disclosing.
The aliens are doing the same thing.
They're not disclosing, they're not covering up, they're doing something in between.
They don't seem to be abducting people anymore.
I don't know what's going on here.
Oh, yeah, they're still abducting people.
I'm not surprised.
February 15th Show00:00:53
Thank you so much.
Excellent.
Wow.
Incredible information.
And I think anyone watching the show here has learned so much in the past couple of hours.
And we really appreciate it.
Alexandra, Forbidden Knowledge TV.net.
Amazing stuff you have going on.
And we are going to have a big show on February 15th.
It's the biggest show, actually, that we've done because the story is so heavy and so powerful.
And I've been working on it for a while.
And we're going to roll that out on the 15th.
So everybody.
Out there, thank you so much.
It was a huge crowd tonight, and of course, we had the best people on.
Grant will all be watching your work, and thanks, everyone.