Daniel Liszt and Alexandra Bruce examine the delayed release of JFK assassination records, highlighting the CIA's attempt to block documents until 2038 amidst Trump administration tensions. They analyze NASA Memorandum No. 271, revealing Kennedy's intent to share UFO intelligence with the USSR, while discussing Hoover's early awareness of Oswald and the Church Committee's findings on organized crime assassinations. Ultimately, the episode argues that suppressing these files protects the national security state's expansion, noting the CIA coined "conspiracy theory" to discredit truth-seekers regarding the Warren Commission. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, WAV2VEC2_ASR_BASE_960H, sat-12l-sm, script v26.04.01, and large-v3-turbo
Time
Text
JFK Records Release Unveiled00:14:56
Wrong.
Okay.
So here I am with Alexandra Bruce from Forbidden Knowledge TV.
Hello.
It's good to see you.
We're here to announce that the records are being released.
The JFK Records Act mandated their release in 1992, and it's 25 years later, October 26th.
And there was some suspense there about will they, won't they, because there's supposedly some inflammatory stuff that's still in these documents.
But I think so far all signals go.
What we saw, we were looking at Of the National Archives, and they said the files are out but not online yet, which I guess is a little odd when you think about it.
It's not exactly what we were led to believe, but I guess it's this might be a little not everyone is on the message, on the same message.
No question.
No question.
Yeah.
I also happen to think that, you know, this is a sensitive area because we have the administration very much at odds with the CIA currently, and the CIA not wanting these records released.
Right.
You have to make a little more doubt.
The CIA is the PP dossier.
I mean, like, That's what the CIA is to Trump right now.
Right.
So you could say this is his revenge in a way.
Right.
But these records are important because, of course, when we get into the JFK assassination, it's a linchpin event for the national security state taking enormous power strides that they didn't have before.
And some of the ramifications of that, the escalation into the war in Vietnam, for example, the complete kind of black budget takeover of the space program, and a number of Policies that I would say JFK was moving towards cooperation with the Soviets.
We got a gigantic Cold War dance that went on for years and years, lots of military spending, which JFK was definitely not a major proponent of.
And so we can see there have been a lot of questions, and I've done, you know, in my work, my documentary, Agent Oswald, is there on the channel for anyone who wants to see what my research has come out about this.
But I've done interviews with people like a Watergate lawyer, Douglas Caddy.
And author Dick Russell, and they've given us a whole view of what's been going on around this case.
And it's been a lot of subterfuge, it's been a lot of cloak and dagger, it's been a lot of hiding what the truth was.
And so, when we get to the truth of the JFK assassination, we're getting into really hardcore deep state territory because those kinds of mysteries, it's not something we get access to very often, but they have enormous impact on our daily life, especially our political lives.
Oh, yeah.
I mean, it's just, it's an interesting.
Pardou Deux.
It's an interesting dance.
You're seeing it today.
Yeah.
Now, a couple of things that might come out in these records since they're not actually available online.
We can't get our actual hands on them.
Yeah, it's a little disappointing.
But a few things that have been teased about those files is a lot of them relate to Oswald's visit to Mexico City.
Now, there's a lot of speculation about Oswald's visit to Mexico City because what happened, in essence, was.
It just so happened that the CIA's cameras broke, according to CIA director Richard Helms.
I like that.
But nonetheless, the story is that Oswald visited the Cuban and the Soviet embassies when he was there and demanded a visa to go to Cuba.
So, you know, kind of brandishing his communist credentials.
Well, but also showing that he was very much a known person of interest.
They were following him for years prior to the assassination.
Well, there's a memo, an FBI memo by J. Edgar Hoover, that shows that he was aware of Oswald and actually thought someone was impersonating Oswald as early as 1960, three years before the assassination.
That's the FBI side.
We've come off a lot of other work, like the work of Jefferson Morley, the work of John Newman, who have been telling us that the CIA officials were aware of Oswald during this period and that they didn't share any info with the Secret Service about him, possibly because he would have been picked up and then couldn't be the designated culprit anymore.
So there's a lot of mysteries there, but if these documents deal with Mexico City and the Mexico City visit, then it's possible.
That it's not just going to be the kind of regular rigmarole of diplomats trading information back and forth.
You might get something solid.
Some actual intelligence.
Yes.
They are.
I mean, and it is kind of fascinating the period that we're in because we're looking at the JFK assassination back in November, 54 years it will be.
We think about that.
There's still, you know, the Warren Commission is what a lot of the media, Likes to refer to, but it was thoroughly debunked by other studies like the House Assassinations Committee found a probable conspiracy.
And then there was the Church Committee, which basically concluded the CIA used organized crime for different assassinations.
And there was the JFK Records Act.
So there have been numerous revisits, you know, revisitations to the assassination that have debunked the original Warren Commission.
But I think most children in school learn history as if the Warren Commission was.
It's the final say.
That's the gospel right there.
That ain't right.
Well, I want to mention that you actually knew JFK Jr.
I did.
And he went to school with you.
That's right.
Do you want to tell us a little bit about him?
He was a great guy.
He was a sweet, he was a good person and had a great sense of humor.
Whatever.
I just knew him as a regular, I mean, as regular as he could be.
He really was.
He was pretty normal, considering.
Right.
That's incredible.
Well, it's good to know he was so down to earth.
He really was.
He was very sweet.
He had started the magazine George, which covered all these political, you know, the deep political stuff.
And he had kind of a sense of humor about it, I would say.
I did hear there's a lot of good sources that he was, in fact, planning to run as a candidate himself.
And his untimely death stopped that.
There's always been a lot of mysteries around JFK Jr.'s death.
But we won't go into that today.
But I will say, I think it's interesting.
What I found out is that JFK Jr. Looked into his dad's assassination and was never happy with the official story on that.
He definitely wasn't.
Yeah.
You have a little more information on that, which was that at one point, wasn't it Carolyn who told you?
Oh, that he was always looking for new, more information on his father's assassination.
Can you say who that was?
Oh, Carolyn Bissett, his wife.
I was also friends with her.
And she mentioned that it was a big deal to him to get to the bottom of his father's assassination.
Murder.
See, I find that fascinating and it makes sense.
I was not satisfied with the official story at all.
Well, Robert Kennedy Jr. came out on Charlie Rose and it was like a bombshell when he said Robert Kennedy didn't accept the Warren Commission.
Of course, he knew what the deal was, but that never had been aired before, really, publicly confirmed by an actual relative.
So I think it's very significant.
So, you know, what we're looking at with the Records Act, now let's talk about how unusual it was.
That Trump, who, as we stated, has tension with the intelligence community, where is he on this day when these records are coming out?
You said that he's gone to Love Field in Dallas.
Now let's think about this Love Field is where Kennedy landed.
So, there's a lot of subtle messaging going on with this release that I think goes far beyond the like, I wonder what we'll find in the records.
This is very interesting.
And he tweeted out something to the effect JFK files release.
So interesting.
Yeah, that was last night.
So, that's a little bit, you know, again, he realizes there's something in those files that could embarrass some intelligence agencies.
I find that interesting because the amount of secrecy around the JFK assassination, I think, has been kind of like a cancer on the country.
Because it's been eating away at the open system of government that we have.
Well, that's what it represents, also.
I mean, it was basically a coup d'etat by the national security state on the constitutional legal system.
Yeah, yeah, that's a good point, actually.
There is a legal aspect to it because, also, when they go this far, you know, to say, well, it was a national security incident, we have to keep certain things hidden or whatever, they wanted to keep the records till 2030.
Right.
Which is remarkable because.
We'd all be dead.
Right.
Well, hopefully we're still alive.
But I will say, how do you go from 68, no, 63, RFK is 68, 63 to 38?
It's a weird thing.
That's 75 years.
Why would you need that much time?
Or, you know, intelligence methods, you know, I mean, countries are gone.
The Soviet Union's gone.
Yeah.
Ridiculous.
So it doesn't make any sense.
And the fact that they were lobbying last minute, I've been reading.
In the mainstream media about this, which is they were lobbying hard to keep it till 2038, it really makes you wonder about even the small amounts of tidbits of information that come out.
Now, I want to talk about this memo, so I'm going to ask you.
Yeah, what is the name?
What is the name of this?
This memo is actually.
Where did it come from?
This comes from a FOIA request that was sent to the CIA.
And the first one we're going to discuss, though, is the NASA National Security Action Memorandum No. 271 memo.
This is on the record of the JFK library, so it's not even like some mysterious MJ 12 document, which may or may not be authentic.
It's there, it's substantive.
And what you have, in essence, and I'll abbreviate this, but he is saying that Kennedy is saying to the NASA director that we need cooperation in outer space with the USSR.
It's dated November 12, 1963.
Of course, Kennedy's assassinated on November 22nd.
You know, when we look at this, we have to say there's a major issue here because he's saying we have to share intelligence with them.
Now, when we go to the following memo, which was released by a guy named William Lester, who got it as a FOIA request and it was covered widely, you know, in the UK media, they didn't cover it here very interesting, blocked out, yeah, and even a lot of the document is blacked out, as you can see.
But I do find it interesting.
Um, now this is his.
Directive memoranda about this issue, Don F. Kennedy, sending it to the Central Intelligence Agency.
And I'll just read a little bit of this.
As I discussed with you previously, I've initiated and have instructed James Webb, who's the head of NASA, to develop a program with the Soviet Union in the high threat cases reviewed with the purposes of identification of bona fides as opposed to classified CIA United States Air Force sources.
It is important that we make a clear distinction between the knowns.
And the unknowns.
So that's for starters, pretty curious.
In a memo that's titled Subject Classification Revise.
A review.
It's a classification review of all UFO intelligence files affecting national security.
So that's the hand of the president there talking about UFO, reviewing all UFO intelligence.
Exactly.
Affecting national security.
I mean, if that's not a bombshell subject line, it is.
And it's interesting because when you say, yeah, it's a bombshell, all right, that's a good point.
But he's talking about the UFO factor there.
Knowns and unknowns is also an interesting line because he's saying we have our own mysterious UFOs.
We have our own mysterious craft that we're working with.
What's a known versus an unknown?
That's how I read that.
Very interesting.
So he's alluding to an advanced technology program there, one way or another.
And then he says it's important that we make a clear distinction between the knowns and unknowns in the event the Soviets try to mistake our extended cooperation as a cover for intelligence gathering of their defense and space programs.
In other words, if they start seeing UFOs, Was by.
They don't want them to think it's us.
Yes, exactly.
And that we're gathering intelligence.
Right.
So we have to show them basically what we have on our knowns versus unknowns.
That was really, I think, the reason for this whole push was like because nobody knows who anybody is anymore.
And so we want them to know who we are.
And so when it's, that's the known.
The unknowns is things that we don't know what they are.
And we both don't know what they are.
Yes.
So that's really what this document is about.
It is.
It's an excellent point.
When the data has been sorted out, I would like you to arrange a program.
This is still the memo continuing of data sharing with NASA where unknowns are a factor.
This will help NASA mission directors in their defensive responsibilities.
Now, it's kind of fascinating because NASA officially doesn't have any defensive capabilities.
It's a civilian agency.
What?
So they have defensive responsibilities against what?
It really makes you curious.
And then he wanted the review by February 1st, 64, of course.
He is assassinated 10 days later.
Is it related to this change in direction?
Is it the straw that broke the camel's back?
I think it's a fascinating document to put on the record.
Yeah, definitely.
And like I say, the UK coverage, you know, and the lack of the coverage in the US, really, it's kind of disturbing.
But the NASA memo, I think, is also compelling, and that's one about which, you know, there can be no dispute because it's just on file there.
So bringing us up to date to the 2017 one, I want to talk about how we get into the Energy aspect of what those secrets could have been.
So, we have Susan Manowich with us, and she's the president of the New Energy Movement, and she's very familiar with these factors.
You're coming back.
Hi, Susan.
Hi.
It's good to see you.
Nice to see you as well.
We have an in depth interview on this coming up and on breakthrough energy and this whole wider subject.
Twenty Years of Hidden Truths00:07:45
So, people can look for that part one.
Part two, the first week in November, we're doing that.
But I'm glad that you were here in town for this records release because I think going off of these memos and going off of some of the information that's released, and we don't know what's going to come out today because, like I said, the announcement on the JFK Records Act is just that the records have been released, yes, but they're not online yet, so we can't get our hands on them.
But we will be bringing you that information over the course of the next couple of weeks, and we're going to culminate in one huge special.
Right around the anniversary of the JFK assassination, which I think is something that maybe in the 21st century we can get a handle on.
But you have a very interesting key in all this because when you see JFK discussing UFO intelligence files, and then we get into this issue of not just the curiosity around UFOs, but breakthrough energy and what they represent, because if they can do things that are far beyond a regular capability, then they represent a tremendous energy source.
So my guess is there's a large energy factor.
How far do you think the repression goes around breakthrough energy?
Well, I would say that we are looking at at least 1963.
Yes, right.
And probably maybe even well before then.
It would be interesting to see where it began and how it began.
I think there are a couple of theories around that.
But I think it's pretty safe to say that in, you know, what do we have, 50, 60 years, that there has been intense suppression for at least that period of time, which basically means that.
Work that's being done in academic institutions, what children are being taught in school, both elementary school, high school, physics, math, etc., is probably not even close to being up to speed.
So we're looking at a very, very long time, Daniel.
Yeah, it seems like it.
Is being in and around breakthrough energy a high risk profession?
Yes, absolutely.
Absolutely.
If you talk to Inventors, scientists, engineers, both that are on the fringe and people that are inside mainstream institutions.
And I've been in both.
I've been a part of very mainstream institutions.
I was a professional consultant for a long period of time.
I had clients like Harvard Business School, Yale University, et cetera, et cetera.
And we would talk, you know, just a little bit about this topic about UFOs, extraterrestrialism.
From a research standpoint, what Would often be communicated was, We don't talk about that.
That's a no no.
That's a career killer.
So, and people would basically stop.
And that was just, you know, talking about the UFO ET topic.
But in regards to new energy technology, most people look at you like, you know, deer with headlights.
And the people that do know about it do realize that you have to be very careful and be very wise about how you approach this if you are going to talk about it, because it does seem.
Like, well, that's something for maybe the DOD or that's something for other agencies, but it's not for the average person in mainstream science or academic institutions to touch.
So they kind of consign it over to, well, let the kind of covert people handle that.
It's not our concern.
I don't think that they assign it.
I think that there is an implied, there's something that's implied that says that.
We don't touch this, or if we do, we have to do this very carefully.
I think that that may have been previously understood from all of those years.
I do think the tide is turning, though.
I think things are shifting and things are changing.
So I think that there's more conversation that has begun to happen in regards to it.
Fantastic.
You know, I have to ask you since I know that you worked with John Mack, and John Mack is somebody who comes up in my shows quite a bit, who was a Harvard University professor who took the subject of UFOs very seriously, did a number of Incredible books.
What's your favorite book?
For me, it was Passport to the Cosmos.
That book was great.
Yeah, and there's a specific chapter that I love, and I can talk about that now or a couple of minutes.
There's a chapter on the environment, and as he was beginning to understand, well, what is it?
So, okay, people are having these contact experiences.
How is it occurring?
There's the science and the astrophysics and the physics of that, right?
And the consciousness of that.
But really, what is this greater message that seems to be happening over and over and over?
And that's the earth is going through changes.
Now, this was 20 years ago that he was doing this, right?
The earth is going to go through a series of changes, and our capacity to be ready for that is absolutely key.
And that is what seemed to be the common message and the common thread of the contactee experience that we need to be able to help humanity through this shift.
Why is that so threatening?
Why is that so challenging?
Still is up for anyone's discussion, but it was really about these upcoming earth changes that we're.
You know, it's fascinating because Mac was able to tie this into the environment.
And this is really the genius of Mac.
And, you know, I know that I can speak about him as somebody that I knew on a very kind of light level, but I got a lot of information from him when I met him.
And I thought he was a very interesting person.
And I had friends who worked for him.
But you actually worked with him around these issues that came up a little bit.
And so you have that kind of deeper knowledge.
Well, I would say this classified and technically worked with him.
So, I was a.
I had just finished my bachelor's degree, 21 years old.
I think it was 21.
I had spent a little bit of time with Bud Hopkins, probably around 19 or 20 years old.
And he was one of the best researchers around this, also.
Yeah, one of the other brave souls.
Was it Hopkins who led you to that?
Yes, yeah, yeah.
When I graduated with my degree, I'm trying to give you the year now and I can't remember.
I'm going to date myself.
But it was a while ago.
And Bud had said, you know, I graduated with a degree in psychology, and Bud said, Why don't you go and see if you can work with John?
He's got this group out there.
And I called and ended up speaking with John on the phone and then met him and met the group at Pure.
I ended up probably being more studied than contributing to the research, but that's where I met Dr. Rudy Shield, who just retired, who's a professor of astrophysics and worked for the Harvard Smithsonian Institute.
John and Rudy.
Made a great team because Rudy could help to understand from an astrophysics standpoint how these things may have been occurring.
And the team that John had surrounded himself with, I became very, very close friends with them.
They were my mentors and are my mentors for a very, very long time.
So just to give you, I want to be accurate with the work that I did.
Meeting the Research Team00:04:15
I was a.
Yes, right.
It's not so much that you were like his hired assistant, is that he was working with you?
Yes.
He had a team of counselors and a team of researchers.
And again, the group was.
Peer, it was the program for extraordinary experience research.
And you know, what they were doing is scientifically, through good research and data and professional expertise, really trying to genuinely understand the nature of contact.
But also, they were trying to rule out that this population of people that were claiming to have these experiences were, in fact, not only were they not crazy, but they were typically higher levels of intelligence, more well adapted, you know, what we would now say is higher levels of consciousness.
That there was nothing wrong.
If anything, there might have been some, there was more right than there was wrong with this population of people.
So, you know, here you have a Harvard psychiatrist that's actually saying maybe the opposite of what every one of his peers would have expected him to say, which caused quite a commotion.
It is, but this is the institutional thing that we need to get at.
And it's what we're up against, really, when you consider the JFK assassination, it's the institution giving us the records.
I mean, the public owns the records, really.
You know, the government is supposed to be a servant of the people, and how can they keep government records secret?
You can understand if they're working around something sensitive, you know, say in the last decade or so, but after 50 years, I would imagine all that sensitivity has gone away.
So they're withholding that for a totally different reason.
So I think Mac is a great trailblazer because he helped to break down that wall and he said, Look, I'm a Harvard psychiatrist, but this subject's not going away.
Let's deal with it, which I think is a much better approach.
And again, my approach with around these records is exactly the same thing.
Let's deal with it, you know, whatever's in there, whatever's in those files.
If this agency overreached, and I want to bring this up because the National Security Act, in essence, shortly thereafter, the CIA is created.
Harry Truman did it.
And Truman, after the Kennedy assassination, says one month to the day, actually, that Kennedy was assassinated, he does a major editorial saying the CIA has.
Way over their mandate.
They weren't built for this.
He's the one who created them.
And he said, We need to rein them back in.
And there's a famous story where Alan Billis, who was the CIA director that Kennedy fired, but then he was in charge of all intelligence for the Warren Commission, which is very ironic considering Kennedy had fired him.
It doesn't seem like this would be a normal step.
It seems more like a cover up step is going on there.
But he went and he visited Truman that night.
And he said, please retract that.
You know, we have this whole thing about CIA secrecy.
And Truman was like, no, I created you and I can tell you where the boundaries are.
And they've tried to flush that thing, but because this article came out and was public and Truman wrote it, there's just no way to get around it.
You can't get any more definitive than that.
The question is have we done any better reigning in that power structure since 1963?
Here we are almost 54 years later.
I would say probably not so much at this point.
And it seems, it seems, it's almost like this.
It's almost like people in mainstream media, academic institutions, and mainstream whatever, mainstream science, it's like people are living in this cultural norm of we don't ask this, we don't touch that.
And it's like this safety zone of the dominant culture.
And they're afraid to step out because of the marginalization of what maybe has happened before.
So it's almost like, You know, they've trained the American public quite well, if you ask me, and maybe trained them too well to a point that the dog doesn't even bother going outside anymore, even though it may need to.
The term conspiracy theory was invented by the CIA.
Exploring Broader Political Aspects00:01:40
That's Alexandra piping up back.
Yeah, to describe people who questioned the Barring Commission.
And while we're in the middle of these incredible conversations, we're going to wrap up this broadcast, but because the records aren't available online, can't really talk about them yet.
I think with the little dance that we saw between the administration and the CIA, that there is something in there that is going to be worth looking into.
And we're going to spend a lot of time doing that over the next few weeks.
And I'm going to have the help of Susan and Alexandra when we get into it.
And we're going to talk about the larger aspects around it the political aspects, the energy aspects, the UFO aspects, the deep state aspects.
And, you know, can you really move the culture forward around this release?
Maybe this release can be some kind of a rallying cry.
Well, you know, what will probably happen is a lot of the details that come out, people will say, well, we knew that, and, you know, it won't be made such a big deal of.
But maybe, just maybe, there's something in there that's worthwhile.
So, we're going to sign off now, but thank you, Susan.
Thank you, Daniel.
Really appreciate it.
And thank you, Alexandra.
She's back there.
We're going to be talking to her later, too.
So, have a great afternoon over there.
And watch for Susan's interview, which is coming up on the first week of November a two part interview with her on her Breakthrough Energy company, New Energy Movement.
And also with Alexandra.
And in Alexandra, we're doing Forbidden Knowledge TV and an overview of what she's doing there.
So, have a great afternoon over there.
And if you're looking for more information, go to darkjournalist.com.
And of course, since you're here at the YouTube channel, subscribe to the YouTube channel.