Dr. Richard Sauter reveals joint underground bases for diplomatic exchanges with extraterrestrials wielding electrogravitics and anti-gravity, claiming Lockheed Skunk Works reverse-engineered recovered UFO tech before the government classified it in the late 1950s. He links Operation Paperclip to Nazi rocket programs continuing via NASA and interprets the Barney Hill abduction as involving Caucasian humans rather than grays, while theorizing aliens avoid corrupt leaders like Barack Obama to interact only with high-consciousness individuals. Sauter concludes by warning that unprepared consumption of shamanic plants like ayahuasca risks severe psychological harm when encountering powerful non-human spirits. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, WAV2VEC2_ASR_BASE_960H, sat-12l-sm, script v26.04.01, and large-v3-turbo
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Reverse Engineered Alien Tech00:06:33
Hi, this is Dark Journalist.
Today I have the exciting conclusion to my deep interview with underground base author Dr. Richard Sauter, who wrote the classic book Hidden in Plain Sight.
Now, in part one, we discussed the dramatic evidence for an extensive underground infrastructure that connects a global network of subterranean bases.
In this special part two, we'll connect the dots on the question of advanced UFO technology and the real reason behind the total silence and wall of secrecy and covert circles regarding the program.
Is it really national security or something else that is keeping the public totally in the dark on this crucial issue?
Let's go ask Dr. Richard Sauter.
I think that they do have operational so called UFO technology.
The Dark Journalist Special Report UFOs, National Security, and Deep Underground Bases.
Featuring an in depth two part interview with hidden in plain sight author Dr. Richard Sauter.
Now, let's join dark journalist Daniel List.
Richard, it's great to have you back, and I have to let everyone in on the fact here that our entire network shut down across the board.
Just as we were starting this episode on a very controversial tip.
You know, you asked the $64,000 question and Skype just flat out stopped.
Yeah, there's no question the timing was perfect on that.
We'll try this again and see if we crash this time.
Now, you've dealt with this question of off world involvement in these underground bases very responsibly, not jumping to conclusions.
And I guess we've heard a great deal about the breakaway civilization at this point.
So, my question is this Are these bases related to UFO activity?
And are they getting the advanced technology from an alien source?
Yes, in some cases, yes.
Not every base, but some of them, yes.
That's what my research suggests.
In fact, because all of this is so highly classified, you don't find a document trail for the really, truly secret stuff.
But what I surmise is that at least some of these.
Would be joint bases, and that some of them would probably be used as diplomatic exchange points or places where representatives could come and meet, exchange technology, or have interviews, or meet and greet types of reunions or consultations in extreme secrecy and privacy.
Yeah, yeah.
Now, do you think that the possibility of the alien technology being used in our secret military and science? Programs is likely?
Are they at a point where they can actually utilize this technology?
Or do you think they're still attempting to reverse engineer it at this point?
No, I think some of it has been reverse engineered, not necessarily well understood.
But let me give an example.
I think the work that the Woods have done, for example, Ryan Wood and his father, Robert Wood on retrieved UFOs.
I think there's some truth to that the military industrial complex has recovered a number of so called UFOs and are studying them and have been for many years.
And even if they don't understand everything, if they have a device and they see that it has certain electrogravitic properties, for example, or certain anti gravity properties, or maybe even That there are time distortions around this thing when it's functioning.
Even if you don't 100% understand the technology, maybe you can only figure out 3% or 4% of it, or 5% or 6% of it.
That in itself could represent a great breakthrough and lead to other things.
And I presume that's the kind of thing that has been going on for at least a half a century or 60 years.
Well, let's just point to a classic case in UFO history, which is Roswell.
Now, in that case, you have a series of very credible witnesses coming forward and giving their story of alien crash retrieval.
And you've said something very interesting in this regard about the alien technology, which is that it's so exotic that we couldn't even imagine it.
Now, can you elaborate on that?
Well, you know, when you're dealing with other species coming from other planets, Or, either even from another space time continuum altogether, maybe from another dimension or another realm where the laws of physics may be different than they are here,
or where a very different way of understanding physics has evolved, or where literally a different conception.
Or, a way of perceiving time itself has developed, and then you encounter that species in their technology and their culture and their mode of thought, their way of reasoning, their way of communicating.
It could literally be mind bending, in that, someone with a weak mind might go crazy, and maybe that's happened in some cases.
That may be another reason for compartmentalizing.
These programs because the mental fallout from exposure to a different species of life, a different mind, a different way of thinking, a different mentality, a different way of perceiving reality could be very difficult to integrate psychologically and mentally.
Psychological Fallout of Contact00:03:15
Absolutely.
So let's imagine that they already have this technology and that they've been able to reverse engineer it and they have this immense underground infrastructure supplying these deep facilities.
Do you think it represents too much concentrated power in secret hands?
Of course, it takes an immense amount of money to fund this kind of UFO technology research and build all of these super bases, which is no doubt coming out of the deep black budget.
What do you think is their endgame here by investing all this time and effort to the secret world?
And will it have a very negative impact on our surface world?
I don't know what the endgame is, but I can say a little bit about it looking in from the outside and And putting together some fragmentary pieces of evidence.
All right.
One of the things I noticed when I was conducting my research, because I went so exhaustively through the technical documentation for industry, for the military, for other government agencies over a period of decades, several decades,
starting about in the late 1940s, coming up to the 50s, and into the First part of the 1960s, I ran across a number of articles and documents in the literature having to do with electrogravitics and anti gravity.
But then it all went away.
As we moved deeper into the 1960s, it all just went away.
And at the time, I thought, you know, my feeling was there was a flurry of technical research interest in that.
On the part of a number of scientists, engineers, agencies, etc., and then it flared up for a while and then it just died down and faded away.
And my thinking at the time was it has a funny feel to it.
It's almost as if they suddenly realized there's something to this, like maybe they got some crashed UFOs at Roswell, right?
Yes.
And then in 1947, and then in 48, 49, they jumped on it up through the 50s and early 60s.
And then they started to make some breakthroughs and they took it secret, top secret.
And it's not that their interest in it ended or that there was no viability.
To that line of scientific and engineering inquiry.
On the contrary, I think they found out that, holy hell, you know, we got a tiger by the tail here.
We'd better classify this to keep prying eyes away.
And I believe that's what happened.
I think that they do have operational so called UFO technology, but it's being used, they being the military agencies, and some of these classified research institutes and groups like.
The Lockheed Skunk Works, among others.
And I believe they've made a lot of progress in the last half century and they've kept the vast majority of it classified.
Bending Light and Time00:03:27
That's my belief, and I think that I'm very close to the reality of the situation.
Yes.
Well, you've had the insight to look at this from a few different angles.
You know, you have a PhD in political science, so you can grasp some of the political angles that are at work here.
Now, one of the things I'm curious about on the UFO front is.
Since we're right at the heart of the mystery now, in your opinion, do you think what we're seeing there in our skies are off world crafts traveling around?
You know, there are thousands of verified sightings.
Or is that mostly us working with this retrieve technology, flying it around, maybe not fully mastered yet?
I actually think some of both.
And in my belief, based on some conversations and also a lot of reading, And reflection on the reading, the conversations, and observations is that when you start working with these technologies that bend time, if you will, andor bend space, if you will, that things kind of go a little bit woo woo or Froot Loops,
and that what happens is the reality veils start to part, the veils of reality between dimensions.
The veils of reality between different modes of perception, the veils of reality between different states of mind, the veils of reality, maybe between literally other physical universes.
And I think what happens is that you mentally and also optically, physically, begin to perceive quite a lot of things.
That the ordinary person doesn't in the course of their everyday life.
Those things being other technologies, other species of life, their comings and goings, their very thoughts.
A lot of it becomes more transparent and more apparent and more open and more evident.
And so I think that when you begin to use these so called UFO technologies that bend light, that bend time, that bend space, or fold space, fold time, fold light, that you see and experience all kinds of things that people do not in so called everyday, ordinary, consensual reality.
And that you then become aware of the activities of other technological species of life in this galaxy.
Their comings and their goings, you see their craft, you see the beings, etc., and vice versa.
So that when that happens, you're in a different ballgame completely.
You've moved into a different reality ballpark.
Everything becomes so much larger, more complex, and involved.
I'll give you an example.
In one of the first, perhaps the first well known so called UFO abduction case of Betty and Barney Hill, In rural New Hampshire back in the 1960s.
Nazi Officers and Blueprints00:08:35
I think it was the early 1960s.
About 15 or 20 years after the end of World War II.
They were abducted, taken aboard a flying saucer that landed near the highway they were traveling on in the middle of the night.
It was interesting that, and it was a traumatic experience for them, but it was interesting that when Barney Frank was taken under hypnosis to be quizzed about this, One of the first things he said was, you know, the leader, the commander on this flying saucer, he's a Nazi.
Right.
He's a Nazi.
Well, how do you know?
Well, because, you know, he's wearing a Nazi uniform.
And at the time, a lot of people just skated over that.
I'm thinking, and I think at least a handful of other researchers are beginning to think, maybe he was reporting the literal truth that the commander.
Of this UFO was a Nazi officer.
Remember, if you've read Joseph Farrell's work.
Oh, yeah, and he's a regular guest here on the show.
Go ahead.
You will know that the Nazis did a lot of very interesting technological research and design during the 1930s and 1940s.
And after World War II, an awful lot of that was brought to the United States under Operation Paperclip.
A lot of Nazi technicians, engineers, and scientists, but also a lot of technological hardware, and also a lot of blueprints, design drawings, manufacturing specifications.
Yes.
All of that.
I mean, literal hundreds of train car loads of that stuff was physically brought across the Atlantic to the United States.
Most of it to this day remains top secret, remains classified.
And I don't have any problem.
With understanding that a lot of those Nazi research and technology programs continued under American Aegis right up through the 1950s, 1960s, into the 1970s.
Right, there's no question about it that after the war this did take place.
But can you give us a good example of just this Nazi influence overlapping into a really American enterprise?
The good, open example of that is NASA.
NASA In the late 50s and 1960s, and right up into the 1970s, it was run by ex Nazi officers.
Right.
Some of them were ex SS officers who came under Project Paperclip to the United States.
Kurt DeBoos ran Cape Canaveral and Cape Kennedy during the Apollo program, the Gemini program.
Kurt DeBoos was an ex SS officer.
Ferner von Braun, who developed the rockets that took American astronauts into orbit and then to the moon, was also an ex Nazi SS officer.
So that was an example of a, in other words, NASA was a continuation of the Nazi rocket program.
Period.
Exactly.
Pure and simple was a continuation of the Nazi rocket program by Nazi missile scientists in the United States all the way up into the 1970s, 30 years, almost 30 years after the end of World War II.
Well, that's an example that was publicly known.
I'm sure.
There are multiple examples that were not publicly known that were hatched in the classified world and remain there to this day.
Well, that really is a compelling example.
And going back to what you said about Barney Hill and his comments about his UFO abduction, they are unusual, there's no question, and they don't fit.
But why was he saying this about his abductor, you know, and calling him a Nazi when the story is full of descriptions of what sound like grays, you know, abducting he and his wife, Betty?
But you've looked at some of the terms that he used under hypnosis.
And can you get into that a little bit here?
He didn't say the Nazi officer was an alien.
He said the commander is a Nazi.
Right.
He didn't say he's an alien Nazi.
He said the commander is a Nazi.
And he also talked about one of the other officers on the UFO, he said was an Irishman.
Now, of course, the Irish are not aliens.
I think it's safe to say that you're right there.
Now, what do you think that he actually meant?
I think what he meant was he's Caucasian.
Yeah.
You know, he's a white guy with red hair.
I believe that's what he's trying to say because a lot of the Irish have red hair.
I can see that.
So I think his initial statements were saying look, you know, the crew of this Nazi, they're white guys, and one of them is a Nazi.
How do you know he's a Nazi?
Well, he's got a Nazi uniform.
You know, he's dressed like a Nazi.
Why would someone be dressed like a Nazi?
Why would they look like a Nazi officer?
Maybe because they're an Operation Paperclip Nazi officer.
Yeah.
Now you have to remember back in the early 1960s, Operation Paperclip was still classified.
Right, exactly.
And this really brings us around to why, in this case, why would the government try to hide the reality of UFOs as they have for decades?
And that's a fact.
But let's say here that they understood we have off world visitors coming here in this incredibly high technology.
Using this high technology energy.
We can imagine why they might lie about it.
It's a technological advantage, military applications.
But what are some of the other reasons that you see for this?
Social and political control.
I mean, it's political control 101.
Information control.
Those who control the information flow have their hand on the lever of power.
It's all about information control.
And if you are actually dealing with exotic technology, You want to keep it under your control.
And also, information.
Why do these aliens go skulking around the shadows, most of them?
Well, the evidence suggests they've cut deals.
Right, and this is where we need to go next on this, which is the secret activities on the part of the visitors themselves.
It's not just a military cover up that's happening here.
So, why do you think they're hiding their activities to such an extreme extent?
Why do any espionage agents go skulking about in the shadows?
Because they're wheeling and dealing in secret.
That's, again, that's espionage 101 control of information, control of personnel, control of institutional or organizational assets.
You keep a tight lid on it, and that's your answer right there.
Well, this is a key point the two way cover up.
We know that the military and certain officials and aspects of the media are engaging in this cover up that we have ET visiting here, but also the visitors themselves are certainly not looking to come forward.
Through unofficial channels and say, hey, we're here, for example, to a local media outlet.
You know, there's no great desire to announce their presence publicly.
No, they don't do it to the media.
However, there are thousands and thousands, unknown thousands of cases of so called aliens or extraterrestrials, very much, so to speak, manifesting themselves to ordinary people, which raises, and this happens all the time to people in all walks of life all over the world.
Which raises a question as to alien mentality.
Do they stand on ceremony?
Advanced Consciousness Beings00:06:05
And it appears they do not.
Does hierarchical command structures mean anything to them?
Again, it appears in many cases not.
You see, they're different groups.
And the ones who've cut deals with the major governments, for example, and military and espionage agencies, do have a hierarchical.
A command or organizational structure.
But the evidence suggests there are other groups for whom that means nothing.
And so they, therefore, to them to talk to the president is meaningless.
For them, they would say, Who is this guy?
He's corrupt, he's incompetent, he's dishonest, he's not very intelligent.
So why would I waste my time talking to someone who's stupid, corrupt, incompetent, and dishonest?
And the answer they would.
They would immediately have is I wouldn't waste my time.
So I'll look for something for someone who is honest, intellectually curious, who's competent, and that would be much more interesting for me.
And then that might turn out to be a 15 year old girl in China.
Right.
So they would appear to her.
They would appear to her, and she might be out working in a rice field, right?
But for them, she might be a thousand times more interesting to them than a pathological liar.
Such as Barack Obama.
He might be an absolute waste of time, waste of time for them.
They might regard him as a criminally insane doofus.
Yeah, right.
Well, that actually brings up an interesting point about the level of sharing in these organizations.
But somebody like Barack Obama, who's the president, would he have access to the alien information and technology, or is he kept at a level where he can't access this kind of information, do you think?
My impression of Barack Obama is that he is about as dumb as they come.
And whatever he knows, there's liable to be a lot of disinformation mixed in with it.
For example, someone like a UFO researcher like Richard Dolan, I'm guessing, would certainly know a great deal more about the UFO issue than the President of the United States.
A researcher into ancient archaeology.
A researcher into ancient archaeology, like Michael Cremo, for example, would certainly know a great deal more about the ancient human past and remote antiquity than a lot of so called professors of archaeology at major universities.
So you can see our whole formal bureaucratic structure on this planet is highly dysfunctional and is not working well at all.
Witness the many problems we have from A to Z at every level of society, from one end of this planet to the other.
So I'm back again to saying that when aliens come, and I'm not talking about the malevolent ones with a militaristic, you know, conquest and destruction mentality or conquest and exploitation mentality, but the other ones with a higher level of.
Of real spiritual realization or of self realization, when they come, the people who will interest them will be people who are advanced as human beings.
They wouldn't have the slightest interest in talking to a Henry Kissinger or a George Soros or a Bill Gates or Angela Merkel or a Barack Obama.
I'm back again to my original point.
Do you have any interest in talking to incompetent people?
Dumb, serially stupid psychopaths?
No.
In fact, you do not seek these people out.
Right.
And of course, your life.
In fact, you try to avoid people like that because they are dangerous to life and limb.
Similarly, when advanced ETs come to this planet, they're not interested in wasting their time with low life scum.
Like Barack Obama.
Sure.
And I wouldn't even want to.
There are a lot of other people I would rather talk to than him because I already am clear on who he is.
He's nobody.
And I could give you a list off the top of my head of 100 people I would much rather spend a few hours talking with than him.
And for example, I'd rather spend an hour talking with you than with Barack Obama.
Right, right.
But beyond that, when the ETs come here, They immediately say, Well, we have a whole class of dangerously, criminally, demonically possessed, and violently evil people here called presidents, prime ministers, senators, etc.
And they don't have any interest in them.
But there are other people on the planet with a much higher and advanced mentality, and they contact them if need be in the dead of night, or they wait until they're in an isolated rural area.
And they contact them when no one else is around so as not to cause problems for that person or for the ETs.
And then that person may or may not say anything about that as the years go by.
And on that subject, I will say no more.
Shamanism and Plant Doors00:09:43
I can definitely appreciate that.
One last thing on the ET question, though, if you will.
Would you say that since the ETs possess advanced technology, that they also have advanced consciousness?
Is that a reasonable assumption?
Some of them have extremely advanced consciousness.
Not all of them.
Just the fact that you have an advanced space drive that'll take you from one planet to the other, that in and of itself doesn't mean you have an advanced consciousness.
It may mean that you have a very clever technical mentality.
It need not mean you have an advanced consciousness.
For example, we have scientists on this planet who have devised nuclear weapons.
They have a very advanced technical mentality.
They were able to figure out how atoms work and how they engineer the working of the atom, but it doesn't mean that they have an advanced consciousness.
Two different things.
So, yes, there are ET beings and races who are very technically clever, but also have an advanced tech.
Consciousness, very advanced consciousness, almost godlike in some respects.
There are other ETs that are very technically clever, but they have a very low level of consciousness.
And both of them, the evidence suggests that both types are here on Earth.
Richard, this has just been great having you on for both of these episodes.
Just amazing information.
Now, before we go, I want to ask you since I know that you're more than a dabbler in consciousness research, you actually authored a book called Kundalini Tales.
And being in South America, you've taken part in some ayahuasca ceremonies.
Yes.
Now, can you tell us a little bit about that here?
Yes.
The exploration and advancement of consciousness, I don't believe, is very important.
I know it's essential to explore and advance consciousness.
That is the purpose of having a being, a human being, to be conscious, to explore consciousness.
To advance consciousness, to expand consciousness.
That is our, we have the ability to do that.
It's our great privilege.
And I believe on a soul level, it's a prime imperative.
And so, yes, in my own way, I have explored consciousness and made some efforts in my own modest attempts from time to time to advance my understanding of consciousness.
And one of the ways I've done that is, as you Have mentioned to explore shamanism, traditional shamanism here in South America.
And one of the things that the South American shamans do is to use conscious plants.
And there are a number of them.
There's ayahuasca, there's malekawa, there's so called San Pedro cactus, which grows in the mountains here in the Andes.
And those are three examples.
There are some other plants here in South America.
But those are three examples of plants that permit the human mind to consciously interact with the plants and with the broader natural world and the greater spiritual world.
And I have Salvia divinorum, another one of these plants that's used by shamans in Mexico.
Peyote is used by shamans in Mexico.
I mean, there are quite a number of these plants that are used by shamans around the world that really interact.
Consciously with the human mind, and you can consciously interact then with the natural world and with the spiritual world.
I mean, these plants open the doors of perception, if you will.
Right.
And so I've used three of these, Salvia Divinorum, and we used once, and I've used many times ayahuasca and malakawa.
And I can tell you there are many spirits.
I've seen many spirits.
There are human spirits, there are non human spirits, there are animal spirits, there are plant spirits, there are insect spirits, there are bird spirits.
We are immersed in a spiritual universe.
The universe is profoundly spiritual.
Yes, the physical realm in which we pass our everyday lives, the 3D, three dimensional physical realm, that has its reality.
I mean, we live and breathe and move in that reality.
I don't deny that that has its place.
It does.
But there's also the spiritual realm.
And we are surrounded by the spiritual world.
I mean, we're moving through it all the time.
And I understand now when Jesus says, You know, the kingdom of heaven is within you.
He's saying, Look, this spiritual world, I mean, you're in it.
All right, yeah.
Whether or not you perceive it, whether or not you believe it, you're in it.
It's inside you, it's around you, it's all around you, inside and out.
And for me, that's been the great value of exploring shamanism.
You know, a lot of people can't handle that.
And one of my.
Shamanic sources, if you will, here in Ecuador, observed to me on one occasion that, you know, 98% of people should stay away from these shamanic plants because they can't handle the realities that they open you to.
And those realities are the reality in which the plants live and breathe.
I mean, that is the plant reality.
What the plants are showing you is that they're saying, hey, open your eyes, you know?
It's all so much bigger and vastly more conscious than you think.
You little human beings going around with your cultural and mental blinders on, thinking that all that exists is cable television, the local supermarket, NFL football, the United States Congress, and my Sam's Club card so I can go down there and buy stuff wholesale.
And I just described millions of people, man.
Yeah, well, there's no question about that.
I just described numerous millions of people.
And for those people, there's no way.
There's no way they should ever deal with these shamanic plants.
They just would not be able to handle it.
So now it's become very popular to do shamanic tourism where people come to South America.
They go to Cali and they go to nightclubs in Cali and Colombia and they dance some salsa music.
And then they go down to Peru and they go to Machu Picchu and Cusco and they look at the ancient Inca ruins.
And then they go to the Amazon to drink a little ayahuasca or maybe.
They go to try some San Pedro up in the Andes.
They go to an Indian village, a shaman up in the Andes.
Or they go try Malacawa.
And there are some other plants.
Those are just three I happen to mention.
Because they want to know this shamanic woo woo world, the world of the jungle.
And you know, a lot of them shouldn't be doing that?
Uh huh.
Because they're not ready for it.
Right, right.
They come from a lifetime.
I mean, they're coming from New York or Chicago or Los Angeles or whatever.
And they're saying, you know, I've smoked some weed, I've snorted some cocaine, now I'm going to the jungle and I'm going to do the shamanic plants.
And in the process of drinking beer and snorting cocaine and all that kind of stuff, instead of preparing themselves for the shamanic realities, on the contrary, they have harmed their body, they've damaged their biochemistry at a cellular level, and they haven't prepared themselves mentally or spiritually for this encounter with the spirit of nature, if you will.
And some of these spirits are very powerful.
I mean, some of the spirits I've encountered, I can see that most people would not be ready for that.
Not at all.
Well, in spiritual traditions, the idea of earning the vision is certainly embedded in ceremonies, whether it's Native American or shamanic rituals.
So it's an excellent point there.
In traditional South American shamanism, I mean, you don't just show up at the age of 35 and say, Yeah, I'm hip.
I'm ready.
Lay it on me, buddy.
I'm ready to be a shaman.
It doesn't work that way.
The shamans, the real shamans, they start when they're little boys, like five or six years old.
And they work into it over a period of decades, man.
They don't just show up one day, you know, when they're 35 and say, all right, I'm ready to be a shaman, let's get started.
It doesn't work like that.
And would you say that there are some associated dangers that come with that kind of boost in psychic vision that needs to be accounted for also?
You know, certain safeguards have to be built in.
For somebody who's gaining a whole different vision from what they had before.
Well, here's the thing, and maybe it is, because you see, the more conscious you become, the more you understand, the more you know, and the more you can put things together.
Hidden in Plain Sight00:01:37
So it's the fact of the matter that the more you know, the more people who have a lot to hide start to notice you.
Wow.
Well, this is a fascinating insight, and we'll leave episode two right there.
On that thought, Richard's book, A Classic Look at Underground Bases, I highly recommend it.
It's called Hidden in Plain Sight.
It's available at his site, Event Horizons Chronicle.
Blogspot.com.
Richard, thanks so much for being on the show, and I hope you'll come back for more exploration into these mysteries.
My pleasure, Daniel.
Talk to you soon.
Thank you, Daniel.
I appreciate it.
Thank you for joining me for this fascinating episode on the secret world of underground bases, part two, with Dr. Richard Sauter.
You can find more deep interviews, special reports, and documentaries at www.darkjournalist.com.
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