Russell Targ reveals the CIA's secret "psychic spy" program, detailing how remote viewing bypassed distance to locate Soviet nuclear facilities and kidnapped General Dozier. He explains how figures like Ingo Swann and Pat Price utilized the ESP Trainer app to overcome analytical overlay, while noting Geller's dual nature as magician and psychic. Despite public ridicule of UFOs, the government funded these operations for intelligence until Price's mysterious death, suggesting a hidden history of non-local perception shaping covert warfare. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, WAV2VEC2_ASR_BASE_960H, sat-12l-sm, script v26.04.01, and large-v3-turbo
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Remote Viewing Pioneer Russell Targ00:04:59
Hi, this is Dark Journalist.
Today I'm excited to welcome physicist, author, and the pioneer of the remote viewing program at Stanford Research Institute, Russell Targ.
Now, Russell's work in developing the psychic spies program for the CIA was truly revolutionary, and today we'll find out the most intimate details of his secret research.
Now, Russell's incredible career of developing psychic programs for government and academic institutions is now being celebrated in a new film called Third Eye Spies about his fascinating development of the program to work with top remote viewers, like Ingo Swans.
Pat Price and Joe McMonagall.
They were able to work on a top secret level in clandestine programs for presidents, diplomats, State Department officials, and intelligence networks, and now he can reveal it all.
Here we go Russell Targ, Remote Viewing and Psychic Vision.
The more you hide things in psychic space, the more it shines like a beacon.
Who you are is really some sort of timeless awareness.
That we say that remote viewing is a non local phenomena.
We mean that the accuracy and reliability of remote viewing is independent of how far away it is and whether it's in the future or contemporaneous.
You know, we've seen a steady stream of breakthroughs in the past two decades that reveal that.
Deep and classified programs, the government actually takes the topic of extrasensory perception very seriously while publicly ridiculing it, as they do the UFO phenomena.
When the remote viewing program at SRI was declassified in the mid 90s, it revealed that the government had in fact spent serious monies through covert intelligence agencies on developing an elite team of psychic spies.
Now, publicly it claimed they achieved no favorable results, but the men who developed this program showed that it had in fact saved lives and changed history.
Now many of these facts would have remained undisclosed until Russell Targ recently decided to reveal the missing details of this fascinating program, so let's go find out more from physicist Russell Targ.
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Well, hello everyone.
We're getting deep into the summer now, and we have a part one episode here of a very special two part interview with physicist Russell Targ.
Now, I've always watched the developments around remote viewing very closely because at SRI they made truly amazing strides towards demonstrating the reality of ESP.
And in a real advanced fashion, you know, it shows what can happen when a real budget and backing are given to the special research.
Now, just a quick reminder here to sign up for the Dark. Journalist newsletter, so you don't miss part two of this revealing episode on remote viewing or any of the exciting episodes we have coming up for you this fall.
Russell, it's great to have you here on the show.
And thank you for calling.
I'm happy to talk to you.
Now, your work has been a fascination for me and so many others around the world.
Metaphysical Roots and Early Numbers00:06:47
And recently, I read your autobiography, Do You See What I See?
And I was thinking that your life would make a compelling movie.
And now we find out that there is a movie coming out about your life and the time that you spent setting up the remote viewing program at SRI.
And the documentary is called Third Eye Spies.
Now, can you tell us a little bit about it and how this important film came to be made?
Well, I've written several books on the subject.
And last year I wrote a book called The Reality of ESP, in which I described everything that could be told about the previously secret program in psychic spying at SRI.
So we had this 20 year program looking into the future, looking into the distance for the CIA.
Where we could spy on the Russians and the Chinese and see how the American hostages did in Iran and find a downed airplane for Jimmy Carter and a Russian submarine for Clinton.
So we had a lot of operational things that I could talk about.
Yeah.
But I'm discovering that people don't read many books anymore.
I've written a lot of books.
Some of which have done well, and this last one did not do so well.
So I decided I'm 82 now, so I think I'm done writing books.
I've told people everything I have to tell.
And I was very impressed with Citizen 4, the story of Snowden.
Yes.
So I thought that if you can make a successful film simply telling a simple narrative, I thought I would try and do that.
And basically, Recount the adventures from my book.
The book is Reality VSP.
And this new film is basically a description of what we did from the point of view of my life work.
Well, the film sounds amazing and we'll go deep into that.
You know, one of the things that really jumped out at me when I was reading your autobiography was that when you were growing up, your dad's bookstore there in Chicago carried a number of metaphysical titles dealing with spiritualism, dealing with psychic phenomena.
Now, do you think that that environment had a big influence on you?
I got cooked on the love of books there.
It wasn't until I was an adult that I began to read.
He had a large science fiction library.
Uh huh.
And he had Helena Blavatsky, and I read about the Theosophical Society.
Right.
So as a young person, I began to hang out at the New York Theosophical Society and learned about Bridie Murphy when that.
All happened.
Bridie Murphy.
Now, that was a book about reincarnation.
Reincarnation stories.
So I was like a child theosophical person.
Wow.
It's such an interesting background for someone going into physics.
I can just imagine.
I was interested in meditation, theosophy, and magic 15 years before I got involved in the ESP.
I used to hang out in the magic shops in New York where they were doing magic and selling magic.
So I would say that I was involved in magic as a young teenager.
And then, as I began to have psychic experiences, as a young scientist, I moved from magic to ESP research.
Yes, well, I find that just fascinating because here you are with a real affinity for magic, and then these psychic experiences happen and it leads you down that road.
And then, somewhere in there, lasers become your main focus.
So, quite an eclectic mix of studies going on there.
My vision is very poor.
So, I. Always had a hard time reading blackboards and stuff.
Right.
So it's natural for a person with bad vision to get interested in magic and to get interested in optics research.
So I started as a laser researcher, which I did for many years, but I had a lifetime interest in magic and cards and psychic stuff.
So after 15 years of laser, I was then well enough known in the scientific community.
So, I could go back to the CIA, go back to NASA, and say, I've done a lot of hard things for you in the past 15 years.
I got something entirely new.
I want to start an ESP research program where we will train people how to get in touch with their psychic abilities.
And I had an ESP teaching machine with me.
It turned out that Wernher von Braun did excellently with my ESP machine.
Oh, that's interesting.
And the director of NASA, Jim Fletcher, That, okay, we'll give you $80K to see if you can teach people how to get in touch with their psychic ability, $80,000.
And that got our program started at SRI.
And that ESP game is now available free on the Internet.
You can download that on your Apple telephone, and it's called ESP Trainer and offers you feedback and reinforcement in the same sort of way.
ESP training that we did at SRI very successfully for a year.
And people play that game and learn to get their score from what you'd expect by chance, which is six.
And by the time people are getting 12, I invite them to then write to me and we can talk about what you're using to increase your score.
And many, many people learn what it feels like when they're using their psychic abilities.
And will then write to me.
So that's a free game from the Apple Store called ESP Trader.
Yes, the app is fantastic.
I've used it actually, and I did start getting some really good numbers.
So I do feel that it allows you to get in touch with that psychic part of yourself, and it's an excellent tool for opening up to this kind of latent ability.
I'm very happy to hear that.
Yeah, absolutely.
And I felt I should offer it.
Breaking Codes at the Secret Site00:03:34
I'm a Buddhist, and in the Buddhist tradition, you don't charge for the Dharma.
I see.
So if people enjoy this and develop their psyche ability, that's their own reward.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Well, you've encountered some incredible people when you developed this program, and some of them were really amazing psychics.
And the one that jumps out at me is Pat Price.
And I can tell when you mention Pat Price, there's always a little special emphasis for the quality of the work that he did in remote viewing.
Can you talk a little bit about Pat Price?
Pat Price was a police commissioner at the city of Burbank in Southern California, and he heard about our work.
And he said, Well, I've been doing that all my life to catch criminals.
I can tell whether they frightened a person in the city.
And he sent us his scrapbook, and we started doing experiments with him.
And the first thing he did for us, we were given the geographical coordinates of something in Virginia.
Now, ostensibly, what we were given is somebody's cabin, but we didn't know that either.
But that's what the guy thought he was giving us.
But just over the hill from the cabin was a highly classified National Security Agency code breaking site.
So Price dropped into that code breaking site.
Well, Price said, eventually we had an examination from the CIA and the NSA that if you were given the coordinates of a cabin, why did you drop into this crypto secret site?
Oh, no.
And Price said, well, The more you hide things in psychic space, the more it shines like a beacon.
Oh, whoa.
That's real insight.
What a great quote that is.
So he described this site with its big antennas and roll up doors, and he said, but really the action is below ground.
I see a room with three green stand up safes, and the code words for this project that they're doing is all about pool.
It's rack up, eight ball, 12 ball.
And there are lots of files about this rack up program, and that turned out to be a special access, top secret encryption program pertaining to reading Russian satellite data.
So that's what sent the CIA and the NSA to our laboratory, and they wanted to know first of all, they were angry at Kit Green, who's a CIA guy who gave us the coordinates.
Why are you sitting there at the CIA targeting psychics on an NSA facility?
Why would you do that?
And he said, I didn't do that.
I gave him the coordinates of my friend's log cabin.
It just happened to be a couple of hundred meters from your site, and they found your site more interesting than our cabin.
And that really restarted what had been a very small program into a much larger program, where we were then invited to train.
Pat Price Describes Hidden Locations00:15:23
Half a dozen intelligence officers from Army intelligence so that they wouldn't just have to come to California to do psychic stuff.
And we had an Army group at Fort Meade that ran for a decade.
That's amazing.
But Price was principally the only person who could read things.
But at one time, the famous psychic Uri Geller was with us.
And he came for a visit, and before he had done anything, he was just in my office with Hal, put off, and we got a call from Kit Green, who was the man in charge of all of this stuff at the CIA.
Kit Green was branch chief for life science, so he was in charge of LSD, the life science division at the CIA.
So.
Kit called, I knew Kit for some time, and I had known Andrea Puharic.
Puharic is a biophysicist, physician who brought Geller to us.
Uh huh.
So all these things are long, long stories.
Sure.
Andrea was a very, very smart guy who developed complicated electronic gadgets to help people hear better, and he was a physician and interested in ESP, and I knew him for.
Many years, and he then called me and sent to me Uri Geller.
So Geller was at SRI at a time that Kit Green called, and Geller said, Well, I can see things, not only can I bend spoons, but I can see things in the distance.
And Kit said, Well, that would be very interesting.
I have something on my desk.
Can you tell me what I have on my desk?
And Uri said, Well, it looks like scrambled eggs.
And above your scrambled eggs is the word architecture.
And when Kit had opened his big medical book to the scans of the brain, and above that he wrote architecture of the brain showing something that was susceptible to chemical warfare.
But he had written the word architecture in green magic marker.
So in the film, We can show Uri on the phone in California, ordinary black telephone.
This is 1972.
Telling Kid, I see something about architecture, and of course, the sagittal section of the brain looks pretty much like scrambled eggs if you don't know what you're looking at.
Looks like scrambled eggs even if you do know what you're looking at.
So it sounds like Geller was the real deal.
Geller had psychic abilities, and he's a magician.
Right.
So he will use whatever it can get away with if he needs to.
Oh, inventive.
I mean, like, I used to be an experienced bridge player.
Okay.
And I'm not a cheat.
I'm just a serious bridge player who wants to win.
But if somebody shows me his cards, then I will take advantage of that new knowledge and.
Finesse the king in the right direction.
I'll play to win, folding in the new information that I got.
Right.
So, Geller will use his ESP abilities, but if you give him an opportunity to use other abilities, my opinion is he'll do that as well.
Well, you know, he has been controversial at times, and I do think it's interesting that the controversies with him did come later.
So perhaps he was coming from a more psychic place originally in those early days.
We never.
Claimed that he's able to bend metal, which he did not do in the laboratory.
Okay.
But he can do psychic stuff.
Geller and Pat Price are the only person who ever read anything at a distance.
Fascinating.
So it sounds like they were operating on a totally different level with their remote viewing.
It seems so.
Ingo Swan also described the NSA site, which is known as Sugar Grove.
He described that with great accuracy, but he didn't.
And he said there's stuff underground, but he didn't know what it was.
But he made a nice.
Ingo Swan is an artist, a visionary artist who unfortunately died last year, lived in New York.
Yes.
And he would draw nice pictures of whatever he was seeing.
So it was really a two man effort.
Pat Price was able to describe what was there and read the code words.
Ingo Swan described what was there and made us a nice drawing that greatly corresponded to the existing map of what's there, and we show that in the film.
Yeah.
So we wouldn't say that Price is more psychic than Swan.
They did different things.
I see.
I see.
Okay.
So Price, though, he had so much psychic ability that the CIA actually wanted to recruit him right out of your program.
That's right.
One of the things that Price did is help us find Patricia Hearst.
Oh, yes.
That is, he was able to.
Describe where the getaway car was.
Fascinating.
In Northern California, and we found the getaway car.
And he was able to name two of the perpetrators, starting with nothing at all.
We were in the police station, and Price said, Well, give me your mug book.
And he turned pages in the mug book and he identified two of the people.
One was a kidnapper, and the other was the leader, Donald DeVries.
Uh huh.
And all of those people were utterly unknown at the time.
When we came in, they knew nothing.
Wow, that really is remarkable.
You know, it's just incredible that this psychic program could be put to use so swiftly on criminal and national security matters.
Well, what's incredible is that they would stop it.
Yes.
So, as you were asking me, the idea that no good deed goes unpunished.
So, one of the things that we did, the CIA wanted to describe something that no one knew about.
So, they gave us a target which they had seen with satellite photography, a top secret thing in the Soviet Union, and it was a research and development site where they were trying to have a nuclear fusion reaction.
And Price described a huge crane that was rolling back and forth over a building.
Giant eight wheel gantry crane, and he drew that.
And their photographs that they showed us later exactly replicated what Price drew.
Oh, that's just amazing.
A huge eight wheel gantry crane rolling over a building.
And then they said, Well, what are they doing in that building?
Which they didn't know the answer to.
And Price said, Well, they're building huge 60 foot diameter spheres, and they're making them out of little gore shapes, things like.
Orange peel slices they're welding together.
They said, Well, that's very interesting.
We'll let you know if we ever find anything.
And it was two years later that the Russians took down that building and rolled out these giant 60 foot spheres.
And you can see in the photographs which we have that they're made out of these gores.
And Kit Green verifies in the film that before we told them about the spheres and the gores, no one in the Western world knew anything about those.
Unbelievable.
Well, it's an incredible example of remote viewing.
That's a nice case in that there was no possibility of sensory leakage.
Nobody could give us that info because nobody knew what it was.
And if they did, it would be top secret.
Right.
And oddly enough, Price wasn't there to celebrate when the story came out because he had died in the interim.
That's a very interesting point.
That's correct.
Price died in 1975, about six months after the CIA.
Grabbed him and moved him to the East Coast from SRI.
Huh, that's some timing.
So he never got feedback on that target.
That is something.
The feedback is very helpful in learning to do ESP, but the fact that Price described the gores and the spheres shows that feedback is not essential because he absolutely never got feedback from that.
Huh, well, I know this isn't easy to answer, but do you think that Pat Price died as a result of the sensitive nature of the work?
That he could perform?
That's a very controversial question, and I don't know the answer.
So I think that I will.
No one knows how Pat Price died.
Okay.
I went to his funeral memorial with Hal.
We saw an open casket burial, so we know for a fact that he really died and is not just hidden away in the basement of the CIA.
Right, right.
And for this film, we went to the cemetery where he's buried.
So, unfortunately, I would say that Price died from unknown circumstances half a year after the CIA took him from SRI to Langley to work as a full time operator.
I see.
And ostensibly, he died of a heart attack.
Ostensibly.
All right.
Now, there's an interesting quote that you cite in the book from Stansfield Turner, who became the director of CIA.
And this quote is about someone who sounds remarkably like Price.
That's right.
Turner said in an interview we once had a guy who could look inside buildings and describe what was going on there, but he died and we haven't heard from him since.
It was in the Chicago Tribune in 1975, shortly after Price died.
So, Turner was.
Willing to verify for the newspaper that they had a guy doing psychic stuff.
And in fact, we trained two CIA agents who came to visit us.
In the beginning, we thought these were two friendly agents who were investigating what we're doing for the money they're paying us.
And then we realized that they really want us to show them how to do remote viewing.
So, in the film, our contract monitor says on camera, Yes, we sent you a couple of pups and we wanted to see if you could teach them to hunt.
Yeah, that's just a little close for comfort.
Well, there really does seem to be an unhealthy interest there on the part of CIA to manipulate your program.
And in the case of Price, there's another fact, which is that he remote viewed what he believed to be UFO bases in four different parts of the globe, including Australia and Alaska.
Now, I know that wasn't an official assignment, but it gives us some idea of the level of secrecy that he was able to penetrate with his psychic power, and it may have been a contributing factor, at least, to the strange timing of his death.
Now, when we come back, we'll look at some instances where remote viewing was used to protect national security interests, and we'll get even more fascinating details.
Last round of part one here with Russell Targ coming up.
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As they were sitting there filming, a little saucer came, I say little saucer, it was a saucer, came flying over their heads, put down three little landing gear, and landed right out on the dry lake bed.
And they picked up their cameras and started over toward it, filming as they went.
And when they got in fairly close to it, it lifted up, put the gear back in the wheel wells, tipped up, and took off at a great rate of speed.
Dark journalists will go there.
We've seen a steady stream of breakthroughs in the past two decades that reveal that deep in classified programs, the government actually takes the topic of extrasensory perception very seriously.
Hidden technology.
So, in other words, the possibility exists that you have here a machine that is manipulating magnetic fields on a planetary scale that has nothing to do with particle physics.
The black budget.
But there's no such thing as getting away from the corruption because it is literally, it is now integrated into every economy in the globe.
Geoengineering.
I'm talking about right down to the DNA level.
Imagine that you have now put microprocessors and sensors, along with everything else, into every human body.
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And we are back.
Scientific Proof of Psychic Reality00:03:13
This is Dark Journalist, and I'm speaking with the founder and pioneer of the remote viewing program.
At Stanford Research Institute, physicist Russell Targ.
Now, the work that he developed on remote viewing is one of the most important projects that's ever been undertaken on this level and really gives us a rare glimpse under scientifically controlled conditions of the reality of psychic phenomena and the variety of ways that it can be used.
Now, Russell's new documentary, Third Eye Spies, about his development of remote viewing with fellow physicist Hal Puthoff.
And the remarkable psychics that were employed in the program will be coming out this fall, and you can watch for details at espresearch.com.
Now, Russell, one story that comes out of the remote viewing program during your time at SRI demonstrates the high level seriousness of the issues that your team of psychic spies was deployed to solve.
Now, this special case involved the kidnapping of U.S. General Dozier.
Can you tell us what happened there?
Dozier was kidnapped.
From Italy.
See, I think that he was in Venice and he was kidnapped and nobody knew where he was.
And we were asked to help find him.
We called in Joe McMonagall.
McMonagall was the first person I trained from the Fort Meade group of Army intelligence officers.
So I trained six people of whom Joe was the best.
Joe is without doubt the.
Most successful living remote viewer.
And he was able to describe what the building looks like.
And from his experience as an intelligence officer, he said, This looks like Padua.
And he said, The guy's on the second floor.
He's chained to a radiator.
He's inside of some covering which sequesters him from the things ongoing in the room where he is.
And all that was true.
That is, he wasn't a.
Corner building in Padua, chained to a radiator, and all that was verified.
We may have contributed to finding him, but it was really the European police and a tip from somebody in the building that led immediately to their finding.
But there's no doubt.
I mean, the chronological data show that Price described where he was.
It's amazing.
And would have contributed to his being found.
Right.
So the local police found him.
So the Interpol people.
Had a tip which led to his being found, but Price was on the money.
I mean, we have Price, Joe McMonagall was on the money.
We have his documents that predate his being found.
Radar Scans and Intuitive Success00:10:38
Wow, it's really incredible evidence for the effectiveness of the program and the remote viewers.
Now, Ingo Swan is known as the real model for a great remote viewer.
How did he happen to come into the program, and what was his most remarkable case?
Let's see.
He came into the program because Hal had written to Gertrude Schmeidler, who's a psychology teacher, a psychology professor at City College in New York, and she had been working with Ingo, who could affect the temperature of thermistors in a thermos bottle removed from him.
So she had the thermistor connected to a chart recorder.
And she would say, raise the temperature, lower the temperature.
And it appeared that Ingo could do that.
So Hal invited Ingo, this is before there was a program, to come to SRI.
And Hal learned that there was a physics project at Stanford where they had a related project.
They had a sphere made of niobium.
In a liquid nitrogen bath.
This was getting ready for the Gravity Probe B spacecraft to test Einstein's theory that something going around the Earth in an airplane, a clock would go slower than one on Earth.
The idea that traveling keeps you young.
So they have this niobium sphere isolated and the.
Charge on that sphere can be measured as it rotates.
You get a sinusoidal sine wave output, very, very, very regular.
And Ingo came along and he could see the sine wave.
That was a feedback to him on an upper floor above the vault in the physics building where this thing was.
And he said, I can see this thing.
I'm looking at it.
And if they grab hold of it, what I'm noticing here is it slows down.
So you can see on the chart that the sphere starts turning slower and slower as Ingo focuses attention on it.
And that brought in the Navy, whose project it was, and NASA and the CIA.
And that was the first money, that was in August of 72, before there was a program.
So Hal and Ingo were at SRI.
I joined the program with NASA money in September '72, and then SRI agreed to make a program.
It's like you need two people to have a program.
You can't be a sole proprietor at SRI.
You've got to have somebody to talk to.
I see.
So, in working with Ingo, he said what he wants to do, he doesn't want to describe pictures in an envelope.
He can focus his attention anywhere on the planet.
And we began to think about how do you write this up?
How do you describe it?
And he said, why don't we call it remote viewing?
It was a great name.
So Ingo not only got us on the track of focusing your attention anywhere in the universe, but also he named it as remote viewing.
That's a real breakthrough.
We wanted to get away from clairvoyance and the other old fashioned.
Name, if you wanted to start getting away from extrasensory perception.
Yeah.
Give a more modern, more descriptive.
See, we were in a lab already called the Remote Sensing Laboratory at SRI.
Right.
So they were doing radar stuff, sensing what's going on inside the pyramids in Egypt.
So they were doing radar scanning.
Our neighbor was doing radar scanning.
Lambert Dolphin was looking in the pyramids of Egypt.
So, calling us remote viewing was not a big step.
It did not change the apparent franchise of what the department was doing.
Just more remote sensing, just like what you do with the radar, except you skip the radar.
Uh huh.
That's very interesting.
And when I think of the state of ESP research in the 70s, You know, you guys were just so far advanced of what was happening at the time.
I guess some of the institutional precursors to your work would be like J.B. Ryan at Duke University.
And that was the 40s, and he's using ESP telepathy card experiments.
Yeah, Ryan was having people guess cards.
And I describe that a lot in my new book, Reality of ESP.
I describe the problem that Ryan had.
He was having people guess cards.
And his continual finding is that even though some people start out doing very, very well, they invariably decline to chance.
And that was very disappointing, of course.
But it didn't wipe out their previously highly successful remote.
their previously highly successful ESP.
And we now know that.
Psychic functioning is a non analytic task.
That is, you can describe pictures, shapes, feelings, but it's very hard to do analytical things like guess what the shape is.
Guess the.
Read the.
If somebody says, if you're so psychic, can you tell me the serial number on my dollar bill?
The answer is no, I can't do that.
Right.
But I can describe the picture you got in your wallet.
When you open your wallet, you'll see a picture.
And I can tell you what that picture looks like.
Interesting.
So, remote viewing is successful at doing non analytical things.
So, you never read anything in a dream, but you can have all sorts of surprising, sometimes correct impressions in a dream.
So, the idea that remote viewing is basically non analytical means that in a physics term, it's a signal to noise problem.
Once you know for a fact what the five pictures are circle, square, star, wavy line, and cross once you know that, then you close your eyes.
And you've already seen that a thousand times, it is very hard to tell the psychic signal from your memory and imagination.
So, this memory and imagination is a noise contribution from what you're trying to do and makes it much, much harder.
Definitely.
Shingo called that analytical overlay, which is the enemy of ESP.
Analytical overlay that is trying to guess the thing makes it very, very hard.
So, that after you've done.
Many trials.
What happens is the people just have never seen ESP cards before, and you know what the circle, what the targets are.
So your first few runs may be very, very good.
But after a while, you get bored into a decline.
I see.
And that's why the numbers go down.
That's right.
At SRI, we never found a decline.
So our big accomplishment is that we found a way to do.
ESP testing, and there was no decline at all.
That's fascinating.
And I noticed that one of the things on the app in your ESP test is the ability to skip if you don't feel you're sensing where the picture is under the four color choices.
That's right.
That is very important.
And there's a pass button.
So the goal of my ESP game, the ESP trainer, is to help people get in touch with what it feels like when they're doing psychic abilities.
When they're using your psychic ability.
So you get a couple of hits, and that's very exciting.
And then another target is queued up, and you say, gee, I really can't tell whether it's a red or a green, and we don't force you to guess.
Yeah.
So you can pass.
And getting rid of the guessing greatly increases people's scores.
Yeah, that's so interesting.
So something about getting away from that linear approach where there's a kind of robotic tendency.
But allowing this more intuitive response to take place.
That's right.
What we would say is we get rid of the kind of forced choice that Ryan did.
He said, I see a circle, I see a square.
You know, I can't tell what this next thing is.
I'm thinking of my pastrami sandwich that I just had for lunch.
And you don't have a pastrami sandwich card.
So with the ESP game, you can pass.
And then you can pass again.
You say, well, I passed again.
I see a circle in the upper right.
I'll go for the circle.
And that worked.
We did that for a year long NASA program, and people definitely learned to improve this score.
Absolutely.
Well, it's because there's an opening to the process as it's happening, and not this anxiety filled mental blocks from needing to get the answer right, even when you're not feeling it.
Subscribe for Part Two Details00:01:06
So, just fascinating, Russell.
And when we get into part two, we'll find out how you do remote viewing and some rare details of actual things and experiences that have happened after your time at SRI that were even more fantastic.
So part two will come out next week for subscribers.
And now is the perfect time to subscribe with that summer discount at darkjournalist.com.
Russell's new documentary, Third Eye Spies, coming out this fall.
Russell, thank you.
And, you know, just legendary information here.
And let's do part two.
To.
I'm very happy to chat with you.
Thank you very much.
Thank you for joining me for this fascinating interview with physicist Russell Targ on remote viewing and psychic vision.
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