Linda Moulton Howe investigates the Rendlesham Forest case, citing a 2006 UK Ministry of Defense report on UAPs that manipulate minds and damage tissue. She details how John Burroughs received veterans' benefits after Senator McCain intervened regarding classified records of his heart failure following an encounter with a red-orange light. Howe connects these events to future time travelers harvesting genetic material for survival up to 50,000 years ahead, alongside the Philadelphia Experiment and Sumerian Anunnaki narratives. Her personal experience in Wiltshire crop circles revealed a warning that "life on this planet is not guaranteed," suggesting advanced intelligences monitor humanity to prevent self-destruction while preparing for an evolutionary transition where Homo sapiens may be replaced by a more adaptable primate form. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, WAV2VEC2_ASR_BASE_960H, sat-12l-sm, script v26.04.01, and large-v3-turbo
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Heart of the Unclassified00:08:55
Hi, this is Dark Journalist.
Today we welcome back Coast to Coast AM investigative reporter and star of the History Channel's Ancient Aliens TV show, Linda Moulton Howe.
Now, Linda's own website, earthviles.com, is a popular destination for UFOs and Earth Mysteries special reports.
Now, Linda's last visit to our show caused a tidal wave of positive response with over 100,000 video downloads, thousands of comments and emails, rebroadcast on cable TV and radio, and more.
Now, what causes a surge of activity like that?
Well, I think it's the power of Linda's no holds barred style of reporting, and today she's at her best.
Here we go investigative reporter Linda Moulton Howe, ET Survival, Time Travel, and World War III.
NASA recently participated in a FEMA exercise called Eagle Horizon that was a part of a continuity of operations and government exercise.
Think about the natural disasters that could occur in your area.
Think about attacks that could come like 9 11 from outside forces.
And talk to your family about your work and what they need to do to prepare for the unforeseen.
We are getting a crack in the ice.
Of these policies of denial and lies, whether or not the governments admit that we're dealing with other life in the universe or not, audiences are getting it.
They are bypassing the government's suppression.
You know, some of the mysteries that are associated with contact from off world visitors tend to leave us wondering what happened with few answers in sight.
It takes a special kind of individual to embark on a journey into the labyrinth of ET reality.
And emerge with great insights to share.
That is Linda Moulton Howe.
Now, in this special interview, we'll cover crop circles, time travel, sophisticated DNA harvesting, ancient close encounters, and the riddle of the recent report out of the UK on the famous Rendlesham Forest UFO case.
This is exciting stuff, so let's get started.
Linda, it's terrific to have you back with us.
First off, how's it going over there?
Well, I think if the whole world had a blue sky and spring like we have right now, I have windows open with air going through.
It's that kind of day.
Nice.
Well, that sounds fantastic.
Now, to catch up, last month you presented at the Ozark UFO conference.
Right.
And how was that?
Well, for me personally, it was extremely rewarding because.
It's been 35 years for me of trying to get to the bottom of why the government of the United States, at least, has had such strict policies of lies and denials about something so fundamental as another intelligence interacting with humans and earth life.
And this was a conference in which I was trying to present really difficult material.
Now, this material you mentioned relates to a 460 page report.
Report out of the UK MOD that touches on a UFO case that you've researched for years, the Rundlesham Forest UFO case.
Now, we've been hearing all kinds of things about what's going on there, but what is so fascinating about this?
In those 460 pages about unidentified aerial phenomena, in which their own language defines the UAPs as UFOs in the United States, but they're changing it.
To UAPs in the UK to take some of the FOIA requests off of their back.
And UAP stands for Unidentified Aerial Phenomena.
Yeah, and it is a very complex report that is a smoking gun.
This is the first real smoking gun in the modern world.
It goes to the MOD in 2000 and it comes out very quietly, it is unclassified.
Six years later in 2006.
None of us knew.
None of us knew anything about the unclassification.
It is a puzzle about why this was ever unclassified in the first place because it goes right to the heart of RAF Bentwaters and Woodbridge.
It goes right to the heart of the whole issue of frequencies that are emitted by UFOssslash UAPs and have been for centuries that can damage.
Human tissue and manipulate, that is the word in this 460 page report, manipulate human brains and minds.
Wow, that does sound incredible and so rare to find in an official document.
But you've broken big stories before, Linda.
So what was it about the presentation at the Ozark conference that was really different somehow?
To take that 460 page, very difficult, very complex report for all of us, and try to help guide an audience through it and starting off right at the beginning and knowing that I was risking losing everyone.
But I tried to go through into some of the most important parts that are germane to what happened to John Burroughs and others back in December of 1980, and then work out of that.
As to what physically happened from the perspective of John Burroughs and others to them, and introduce material that has never ever been introduced before to anyone.
It's in two categories.
One was an interview that I was able to do in December of 2010 when I was there with John Burroughs and Jim Pennison with the Ancient Aliens production crew, taking them back for the 30th anniversary.
And that we had on the very last day, in fact, right in the middle of the day, we were getting ready to pack up and leave to go back to the United States.
Out of the blue, A very well dressed, elegant speaking woman that I learned was 85 years old.
She comes with a friend to the hotel where we were staying, tells them who she is.
She lives in the Woodbridge area, and that she understands that we are there in a production crew, and that she wanted to tell us at 85, worrying that she wouldn't have much longer life on this side.
And that she wanted us to know what she had herself experienced.
And because we were at the end, because we were rapping, the decision was that I would sit down with her and talk with her on a tape recorder, but we would not put a stranger who comes in the door in the Ancient Aliens video production at that time.
Right.
And this goes to the heart of something else that comes up.
In the unidentified aerial phenomena literature.
And that is, she describes a house going missing after December 26th to 28th that workmen from Butley and the surrounding region knew had been there, and then there's no sign of it.
That's number one.
And number two, Colonel Halt, Charles Halt.
Ended up contacting one of her colleagues at a school that she was a manager of, an elementary school in Woodbridge.
And they end up going into the forest.
And this woman has firsthand testimony of what she saw for herself, which we can talk about later on.
Cracking the Denial Ice00:06:04
Okay.
And so I'm trying to weave these parts.
And then the most, perhaps, most dramatic of all is that on March 13th, 2015, for the very first time, we got an absolutely straightforward statement from a man named Christopher Green, MD, from Wayne State University, who says, I work for the CIA, I've worked for the CIA for almost 50 years,
and this is why John Burroughs' medical records are classified.
And when you put it all together into a 90-minute program, And at the end, with John coming in to do 15 minutes of his own perspective on what has happened just since the fall of 2014 through January to April of this year, breakthrough after breakthrough, which we'll discuss.
When I said thank you at the microphone, this approximately 500 people in this conference rose up en masse.
In a standing ovation.
Yeah.
It was as if there was a wave.
There was a pressure wave.
And why I'm sharing this is it was as if, after 35 years, even dealing with really complicated material and trying to braid it into a coherent whole, all of those people who stood up en masse were getting it.
They were understanding for the first time we are getting a crack in the ice of these policies of denial and lies.
It was as if in my lifetime, whether or not the governments admit that we're dealing with other life in the universe or not, audiences are getting it.
They are bypassing the government's suppression.
And this was the first time that I felt such a unanimous emotion from an audience en masse.
And that was thrilling at some level.
Because I think a lot of us have thought, even in our lifetimes in the 21st century, we're still not going to be alive when the governments admit.
And somehow, Daniel, it is as if humans themselves are bypassing, are beginning to dismiss all of the policies of denial and lies.
Absolutely.
Well, it's so interesting that you're seeing this rising awareness right in front of you in your audience.
And there does seem to be more understanding on the public side that they're not getting the whole truth in the official story now.
And I'm sure the powers that be are aware of this trend also.
The very fact that the UK assembled this enormous 460 page science medical report with diagrams, equations by scientists about unidentified aerial phenomena and the impact of them.
On human tissue, brains, and minds, and a whole huge cascade of other subjects, and then quietly released it in 2006 with none of us knowing why this is even a greater irony.
Remember back when Larry King put on show, each year he would put on some people, debunkers, as well as people saying, no, the phenomena is real, and then somebody would say, no, it's not.
Oh, yeah.
And he was doing it in conjunction with MOD transfer of UFO files from the Ministry of Defense to the National Archive in England.
And I still remember there was this enormous headline by the BBC, and it said MOD transfers 8,500 pages of UFO related documents.
To the National Archive, and then there was this, dot, dot, dot.
But RAF Bentwaters' documents have gone missing.
Those were the literal words that the MOD and the National Archive used because people started going, including the BBC and the Guardian, they started going through the 8,500 pages looking for the biggest story out of England in the last 35 years.
RAF Bantwaters Woodbridge.
Sure.
Nothing.
And yet, all of the hoopla from the government's point of view was we're getting all of our UFO desks, we're getting all of our files transferred to the archive so everybody can go and see everything the UK government knows.
This was really significant when the BBC announced that they were, upon inquiry by their probably most prestigious news group, That, where are your RAF Bantwaters Woodbridge?
And they say, well, they've gone missing.
So they said they were missing, and this was in 2011.
So let's track from there to the recent developments.
Jump to the fall of 2014.
Midnight Sunrise Anomalies00:13:11
John Burroughs had been facing a life threatening heart problem.
And we can go into that.
But through all of what happened around The fact that here is an otherwise healthy male who had served in RAF Bantwaters Woodbridge 79 to 82, who is the only person, underscore this John Burroughs is the only known human in Rendlesham Forest twice, twice, two different nights,
exposed closely to the unidentified aerial phenomena.
In Rendlesham Forest, with outside people.
And the second night, Adrian Bastinza, a sergeant, was going along beside John Burroughs and said, This is the second night that he sees this red orange light.
And this was Bastinza's words to John and me about four years ago directly I saw the red orange light engulf you.
Engulf.
Engulf means to completely cover up you, John.
And the light pushed me to the ground.
This is Adrian Bastenza, sergeant.
So he's saying that he gets pushed to the ground by some pressure wave from this red orange light that he sees engulf John Burroughs.
What is interesting is that Adrian Bastenza and John Burroughs neither one knows what happened at that moment.
Right.
Their minds, the other men's minds, That were there at that field and that forest.
They were there where here is a field and here is Rendlesham Forest.
And two nights before, when John Burroughs was there with Jim Pettiston, they were in the same place.
That's where Colonel Halt, two nights later, took LIDALs, Geiger counters.
They had dozens of men.
They were now concentrating on a place where they had three nights, three nights, 26.
27, 28.
Think midnight.
See hands on a clock.
Yes.
Midnight, the 26th.
So that would be from Christmas Day.
The clock goes into December 26th at midnight.
All of the light activities started between midnight and sunrise on the 26th.
This is the first night with John Burroughs, Jim Pennison, and Ed Kavansak.
Then the day goes up to midnight on the 27th of December.
So now the clock.
Goes to midnight.
Tremendous numbers of, I think, extraordinary things happened between midnight and sunrise on December 27th.
And interestingly enough, that is the night that Larry Warren said that he saw Gordon Williams, who was the base commander, and other people interacting with a craft, beings.
All of that, somebody has worked hard to discredit.
Yeah.
And Larry Warren has since 1980, when he called his mother to tell her that there were beings and craft and lights in Rendlesham Forest and tied it to the midnight to sunrise on December 27th.
His phone call was on a payphone at Rendlesham or at R.A. Bantwaters of Woodbridge.
And apparently, the UK and the US.
We were monitoring every single phone call from the base.
And he got a warning.
And that was the beginning where everybody on the base kept hearing, don't talk about this.
The idea that a pay phone was being listened to and interrupted and cut off, and he was warned.
Right.
So at this point, events are taking on a life of their own and everyone is starting to get affected.
Now, bring us into where we are now in the timeline and what happens next.
So, December 27th, midnight to sunrise, is a huge, deep iceberg.
Tremendous numbers of things happen.
John Burroughs was not there then.
So, the third day, the 27th, coming up to midnight, the 28th, this is where John Burroughs comes in the second time.
And what is also interesting, in light of This huge 460 page report gets handed to the MOD in 2000, gets quietly released in 2006,
and here are the words right in it frequencies, radiation emitted from unidentified aerial phenomena that can damage human tissues and manipulate human brains and minds.
And in fact, I'll read.
To you, this is the paragraph that comes to the heart of why John Burroughs ended up getting veterans' medical, finally, the medical support that he needed.
Okay.
This is from this 460 page report.
This is the paragraph that John and his attorney used The well reported Rendlesham Forest Bantwaters event is an example where it might be postulated that several observers.
We were probably exposed to UAP radiation for longer than normal UAP sighting periods.
Close quote.
There's many others, but here, let me just take off some of the surface of this.
How rare is that to have a document like that?
Absolutely, 460 pages.
When they say longer than normal UAP periods, the exposure of these men at RAF Bentwaters Woodbridge automatically implies that the UK government and the US government have so much information about human encounters with unidentified aerial phenomena that they can put in this report for scientists signed off by scientists.
We're probably exposed to UAP radiation for longer than normal.
Wow.
Longer than normal UAP sighting periods.
So, what's normal?
And when you go into this report, you will find that they will have diagrams of, say, a human male by profile.
And they will break it down body by body by body by body of different radiation frequencies where they are impacting the body of a human.
The most.
This is incredibly detailed.
So when you come back to December 26th, 27th, 28th, and John Burroughs has the exposure with Jim Pettiston and Ed Kavancic on December 26th, and then he has the second night where the Sergeant Bastinza says he's engulfed.
In red orange light, and that it is Bastinza's first hand testimony that something about this light pushed him to the ground.
Those are his exact words.
Yeah.
The very fact that there is this 460 page report that says that there are frequencies in the non ionizing radiation, and we'll talk about non ionizing.
If you're into ionizing radiation, that's alpha, beta, gamma, strips electrons.
This is why it can destroy.
We're talking about bomb, we're talking about radiation.
That's stripping ionizing radiation, hugely harmful to any life.
Well, when you come from the line of, say, here's alpha, beta, gamma radiation, and you come down the electromagnetic spectrum, When you come down to here, you're in radio frequencies.
And then from radio frequencies, you are going up to infrared and then to microwave and then to visible light.
Right.
These are not ionizing, but John Burroughs has been told directly that some of the radiation from unidentified aerial phenomena that can interact with human minds and tissue.
Is in the terahertz.
Terahertz is between microwave and infrared.
So the crafts actually emit the non ionizing radiation?
By definition of whatever they are in their interaction with magnetic fields in their propulsion system.
I see.
But it appears also that they can target, literally, human minds.
Wow.
And there are segments.
In this 460 page report, where it talks about that they know that the UAP radiation can cause, this is from this report, memory erasure.
Those are the UK UAP Defense Intelligence Analysis 460 page report for the Ministry of Defense.
These UAP radiations can cause, quote, memory erasure, close quote.
Not only can they cause memory erasure in human minds, they can manipulate the minds of humans so that what is implied.
Is that pictures, images can come into the minds that may be either communication or manipulation, and either way, humans are vulnerable to being manipulated in their minds.
That's interesting.
And how many of these encounter cases that we've seen have this loss of memory as a signature symptom in the abductees?
Gosh, if you go back to the 1960s and Betty and Barney Hill in New Hampshire, yeah, and you Look at the history of the human abduction syndrome, that being the most famous first case.
Sure.
What are the words that you hear the most?
Missing time, gaps in memory, and there was a whole period when Bud Hopkins was alive that goes back to 89, 90, 91, and even earlier because.
I was doing a strange harvest about animal mutilations in 79 to 80, and I would end up being a speaker with Bud Hopkins.
He'd be talking about human abductions.
I would be talking about animal mutilations.
And what he was dealing with and presented in a lot of conferences was what he called screen memories.
And a screen memory is here is a non human standing in front of a human, but it looks like a deer, an owl.
All kinds of things, and that would again be an example of manipulating the human mind by inserting.
Well, in your research, you demonstrate extremely well that these off world visitors have this telepathic control and that ordinary people find it impossible to resist.
So, you know, that's quite an advantage they have to be able to conjure up these images at will.
Radar Reports and Guns00:09:09
Well, yes, and if it is known radiation now.
It means that the UK government and the US, the US is like this with the UK in terms of control on RAF Bantwaters Woodbridge.
It was a joint base.
Colonel Halt told John Burroughs and me at the National Press Club in Washington, D.C. about four or five years ago this is coming from Halt to us.
He said that he learned that the National Security Agency of the United States took over all.
Of the RAF Bentwaters Woodbridge December 26, 28, 1980 investigation.
Ah.
And it actually made him angry.
Halt was angry because he felt, as deputy base commander, that he should have been involved if the NSA was coming in and taking over, he should be involved.
And he was cut out, others were cut out, the NSA took over.
Now they could do that because Bentwaters was somewhat unique.
It was an American military base in the UK, for one.
What else was unusual about that base?
Well, it was NATO's largest base in 1980.
It had nuclear weapons on both the Bentwaters and the Woodbridge side, even though that was considered the biggest secret.
The UK and the US did not want anybody else in the world to know that they had nukes underground.
Right.
And it was not until, what, the last five or six years, and all of the work that I've been doing on RAF Bentwaters Woodbridge, that there have been men who were there.
This is first hand testimony of what they knew and what they worked on.
That they said there were nukes under the English Woodbridge side.
It wasn't just the US.
Yeah.
So, nukes underground, largest NATO base, and something focuses on the forest.
And a lot of people do not realize that Heathrow, they had radar communication to Central Security Command at RAF Bentwaters.
On the night of December 26th, before the call through Central Security Control, or there was a report actually at the East Gate from that night's shift commander Bud Steffens, who was with John Burroughs.
And this was the call to go check out lights as they had noticed something, they had some communication with Central Security Control, and they are told that.
Heathrow on radar, Heathrow Airport in London, about 90 miles to the south, has on had on radar tracked unidentifieds right straight down to Aria Bellars Woodbridge.
Oh, interesting.
That is a piece of information well established now.
The guys at the East Gate don't know that.
At the time that they see lights, there's discussion with central security control.
That's when they learn that there have been radar reports of something moving rapidly into the forest.
Now, in the UK, there is the civilian land can be juxtaposed against the military land.
RAF Bentwaters Woodbridge was this enormous two part base.
In Suffolk County, in which Rendlesham Forest kind of grew in sections all around portions of this big base.
But for military in England to go off of the military territory out into the public civilian Rendlesham, that's not done unless you get approval.
Okay.
And this approval has to come from Central Security Control.
So on December 26, this is a very significant part that a lot of people forget as well.
You have men at the East Gate, they've got guns, they're on this big joint UK US military base.
Their job is to patrol, monitor, and secure all of the perimeter of these.
Two big pieces of this big NATO base.
So, when there are reports that there are unidentified color lights in the forest, the first thing that they want to eliminate is it has some kind of a crash occurred and nobody knew that an airplane was flying.
Could there be fire?
Yeah.
What could be in the forest that would be responsible for?
The report was red, yellow, orange, blue, and some white lights.
So, When this began to unfold, Jim Penniston was the senior security officer who gets, he has a communication with Central Security Control about here are these reports from Bud Steffens.
He's a shift commander, and the young airman John Burroughs is there, and what should they do?
And the decision is you got to go check this out.
Right.
And that was where they said you have to take off your guns.
You cannot go onto civilian UK ground with your guns.
Oh, because you're US military.
I see.
So they set in motion for the senior security person at that time, Jim Pennison, to go in a pickup truck and he takes a very young airman.
Ed Kvansak and gets to the East Gate, and Bud Steffen does not want to go.
Makes that clear.
He wants to stay on the base.
But John Burroughs, he's an airman first class with a little bit more experience than Ed Kvansak because they're going to go out now to check lights.
They decide that they should have three guys go.
And what is underscoring the importance of this unidentified aerial phenomena, 460 page report now.
These three men are in the front seat of a pickup truck.
They are seeing the same thing.
They do see these colored lights.
So they get as far as they go and they stop in the truck.
And Pedestin, the person with senior authority, says to Ed Kvansack, We're having radio static.
Central Security Control later confirms for 45 or 55 minutes.
They could not make radio contact with these guys.
Wow.
Complete static loss.
Well, now in the truck, they are trying to radio and they have static.
They can't communicate, but they can see these lights.
This is their mission, theirs to go and identify these lights.
Okay.
So Peniston says to Kvansak, you stay here with the truck.
We're having problems with the radio.
Depending upon what happens, you will be the person left to communicate.
So now, the young 20 year old John Burroughs, who entered the Air Force at age 18, is walking beside older Jim Peniston, who was known on the base for being methodical, meticulous about writing down in a notebook, that he always had a notebook, he'd be called out on like an air crash.
And he would make drawings, details of what he was seeing at an air crash.
He would make all these notes, and he was famous for that among the people who were investigating insecurity on air crashes.
Winking Lights Over Base00:04:10
Right.
And it's nighttime around three o'clock in the morning.
And it's cold, so this is pretty treacherous terrain.
Yeah.
And on top of that, when you hear them say, and there's a hypnosis session that I showed an excerpt at the Eureka Springs conference, that may be the closest any of us will ever get to what happened.
It was John Burroughs in 1988, and he is really in a different zone.
He's talking very rapidly, it's everything he's seeing and feeling.
You hear him say, Lights, lights, how, lights, trees, so, so thin, so thick, meaning the trees are so close.
If it is a craft, which is what they think they're following, but they're not sure, how is it getting in so rapidly through all of these tightly growing trees?
Huh, yeah, unearthly maneuvers for sure.
Now let's go to this clip, which is another eyewitness to these crafts, Colonel Holt. who recorded his impressions on the spot into a handheld tape recorder as this incredible sighting was happening.
Here we go.
There it is.
Hey, I see it too.
What is it?
We don't know, sir.
So you have to try this.
Yeah, it's a strange, small red light.
Looks to be out maybe a quarter to a half mile, maybe further out.
Let's switch off.
There is no doubt about it.
There's some type of strange flashing red light ahead.
There it's yellow.
I saw a yellow tinge in it too.
Weird.
It appears to be maybe moving a little bit this way.
It's brighter than it has been.
It's coming his way.
It is definitely coming his way.
Pieces are shooting off.
There is no doubt about it.
This is weird.
Okay, we're looking at the thing.
We're probably about two to three hundred yards away.
It looks like an eye winking at you.
It's still moving from side to side.
And when you put the starscope on it, it sort of has a hollow center, a dark center.
It's like the pupil of an eye looking at you and winking.
And the flash is so bright to the starscope that it almost burns your eye.
305, at about.
10 degrees horizon, directly north.
We've got two strange objects, half moon shape, dancing about with colored lights on them.
That gets to be about 5 to 10 miles out, maybe less.
The half moons have now turned into full circles.
I thought there was an eclipse or something there for a minute or two.
Then at day 15 now, we've got an object about 10 degrees directly south, 10 degrees off the horizon.
And the ones in the north are moving, one's moving away from us.
Okay, here he comes from the south.
He's coming toward us now.
Now we're observing what appears to be a beam coming down to the ground.
This is unreal.
330, or zero 330, and the objects are still in the sky, although the one to the south looks like it's losing a little bit of altitude.
We're turning around and heading back toward the base.
The object to the south is still beaming down lights to the ground.
0 to 100 hours, one object still hovering over Woodbridge Base at about 5 to 10 degrees off the horizon.
Still moving erratic and similar lights and beaming down earlier.
Well, that is as authentic a reaction as you'll ever see, I think, with a trained deputy base commander, Colonel Holt, sharing his sense of awe and some trepidation, I'd say, about what he was experiencing.
Now, Linda, at some point, at least one of these crafts landed, right?
So can you tell us about that?
When you get to where they finally come into what they described to us in 2010, and you see in a photograph that I use that was taken by one of the RAF Bantwaters, Mike Verona, he was a captain there.
In the morning upon sunrise, the whole base knows that something weird has happened in Rendlesham Forest.
Yeah.
Alien Harvest Concerns00:12:42
And you see this open space.
You see three sticks.
The Suffolk police are there.
An investigator from the air base is there.
And these sticks have been planted for this photograph so that they can show that in this area that is open with trees all around it are three depressions in the soil.
The depressions are shaped like a Sort of like a delta, not closed at the bottom like a triangle, but more like this.
Some people said it looked like a splayed foot.
Went two inches.
They measured it.
These three triangles were two inches into the ground.
That means weight and mass.
Approximately apart, they were approximately nine feet.
There was a variation.
And a lot of people say seven to nine feet, but somewhere around there between those three.
And if you now come back from that photo, it means that Jim Pennison and John Burroughs, Cavance Hacks back at the truck, got to a point where there were trees around an opening.
This is important.
They come into an opening.
Yes.
Neither man, neither can clearly remember in moment by moment memory what happened.
They have pieces of memory.
Blast of white light, Peniston sees.
John sort of remembers light.
Peniston says, out of the blast of white light, Like a puppet, is this black triangular craft?
Well, he didn't know what it was.
So I'm saying craft today.
He didn't know what it was that came out of this white light.
And by his own testimony, he does not know where John Burroughs is.
He doesn't even remember seeing, neither one of them remembers anything.
From that point forward, but about the other.
But Jim Peniston describes in great detail taking out that notebook that he has depended upon in his work, starting to sketch this triangular thing, which we have all the illustrations from the work we've done in Ancient Aliens.
And he tells me on my work on audio that.
He was so amazed because underneath what he could see looked like glass were red and yellow and white lights that were moving under like a skin, so that he wanted to touch it.
And when he touched it, he was so surprised that it felt like glass.
And he starts dragging his hands along the glass, goes all the way around what would be the base of this triangular object, comes around on the other side.
And when he gets to what would be the vertex on this side, His hands come up over raised symbols.
The raised symbols he has sketched for me at Earth Files and for the film that we did with Ancient Aliens.
And they, as his fingers are dragging along, and he said the surface of this black, glassy thing was warmer than the very cold, frigid December night in England.
And as his fingers, Reach the symbols that he compared to feeling like braille, meaning they're rays, and he could feel them.
That's when it took him 30 years to tell anybody, and that was us during production in Phoenix.
Nobody had heard this from Jim Peniston ever.
He says he gets a download of zeros and ones in his mind's eye and some kind of a telepathic communication.
We are time travelers.
We are here gathering genetic material from your planet to use as band aids 50,000 or 40,000, it's been two different 40,000 to 50,000 years into the future.
He says later on, much later, under a hypnosis, we are they, they are us.
Now, the implication of the Jim Peniston point of view is startling because it implies if you think about it, we're talking in 2015 on the planet now, that you would fast forward through time to 40,000 to 50,000 years in the future,
and that the civilization.
That's in trouble and coming back to gather genetic material from this planet to use as band aids.
There is still some form of humans, right?
If this were true, it would explain why human abductions, why animal mutilations.
Because I remember back in the 1980s when I was working on the animal mutilations, and with so much.
Intensity because there were so many occurring.
Oh, yeah.
And coming to having to deal with my own thoughts and questions when I was working on my first book, An Alien Harvest is there really any proof that there is malignant intent on the part of those that are doing the animal mutilations?
And the answer was not just from investigating in the fields, but From all these discussions I have with people in human abduction syndrome.
When you hear people who have had upfront and close and personal interaction with something that they're describing and drawing and sketching and doesn't look human at all say, Linda, I think that we are dealing with something that's in trouble.
And that I used to hear that from people.
Oh, interesting.
There is something about what we have now and the problems that they have that in the end, Of an alien harvest.
I left open the door that if we really knew the whole big picture and the whole truth, that we might feel compassion.
And that the compassion, ironically, could be for ourselves that we are in something in which survival is at stake, and that the survival could be what we're calling extraterrestrial biological entities and us.
Humanity that were linked.
And when I think back about that, that was what I wrote.
It's in the book.
It's what I said in 1989 that we could have our survival linked with something else and that that might be behind it.
Yeah.
How ironic to jump to 2015 talking to you and realizing that Jim Peniston, in his hypnosis effort in 1994, trying to recall more details independent of the US Air Force.
And Describing time travelers.
They are us, we are they, coming back from a far future, harvesting material from this planet to use as band aids to survive.
And you come to the same feeling.
If we knew the truth, we might be feeling compassion for ourselves, for ourselves in the future, for other life forms.
That are all struggling in some way or another to survive.
So, that is the most positive context, I think, with which you can look at what happened.
Well, there's no question that there is a potentially positive theme there.
You know, a picture emerges that gives us a lot in common with these visitors, but it's not a definitive picture.
And that can be said to be true about our interaction with this phenomenon generally.
The answers aren't necessarily definitive.
So, what are some of the more ambiguous aspects of this case in that regard?
There is this 460 page unidentified aerial phenomena report that says that there are radiation emissions from these UAPs, their technology, that can injure human tissue and manipulate human brains and minds.
Now, if everything were completely innocent, why wouldn't We are they, they are us from the future.
Simply communicate to the planet.
You haven't understood that past, present, and future are simultaneous.
Your physics hasn't reached that point.
Right.
But we are here because we need help from our past.
Would that have been possible in 1980?
I really don't know.
But I think today in 2015, that there are many people who are coming to the same kinds of conclusions that Jim Peniston has described that you cannot exclude time travel.
That might include us in some form in a distant future going back to the 20th and 21st centuries on this planet because, and this is a chilling thought, but it has to be raised.
The 20th and the 21st centuries might have been the very last time there was DNA worth harvesting on this planet because of what might happen with nuclear wars or other destruction.
So, in RAF Bentwaters Woodbridge, December 26 to 28, 1980, you really have all of the ingredients of everything you've ever heard.
Or read about the interaction of another intelligence with this planet, not knowing where it comes from, not knowing precisely agendas, but that there was an effect,
an impact on maybe three dozen men and women at the largest NATO base in England over a 72 hour period that was immediately covered up by what John and I have been told was the National Security Agency of the United States.
Wow.
Well, they are experts at burying the truth and taking the real journalistic angle and spinning it where they want it to go.
Withheld Documents Revealed00:14:46
And so that leads me to this.
Now, that is a lot of new revelations around a 35 year old case that would seem to really substantiate some of the witness testimony that was given.
So, how do you feel about the public response and, in particular, how the media has reacted to some of this new evidence?
One of the series of headlines, if you go back.
To October of 2014.
And you come through January, February, March, and April is where John and I were in Eureka Springs.
Right.
So, okay, the last four months almost.
At earthfiles.com, at my news website, I have been trying to the best of my ability to keep reporting about each one of these steps, trying to lay out as much as I could.
From Condyne, that would be digestible because it's a really difficult report, but boy, everybody really should read it.
Sure.
On February 23rd, and I'm looking at it right now, was a press release that John Burroughs' attorney released.
And it went to everybody, it went to the UK, it went everywhere.
And this was the press release John Burroughs has received full Veterans Administration medical coverage.
Due to injury caused by unidentified aerial phenomena, UAP radiation at RAF Bantwaters Woodbridge in December 1980.
That went to media everywhere.
And I expected, because I've been working closely with attorney Pat Frascogna and with John Burroughs on every development now.
A few years.
And they had asked me where it should go.
And I gave them the list of everybody from the New York Times to the Guardian, BBC.
It should go everywhere.
And as of today, that particular press release on something so significant as John finally getting his medical benefits that had been denied because his medical records were classified.
Amazing.
It's earthfiles.com.
The Florida paper, and a couple of smaller articles in, I think, a couple of UK papers.
But it's as if this huge, this is a huge step.
And when Pat Frascogna, the attorney, used in his press release, this is de facto confirmation.
Of unidentified aerial phenomena and UFOs as being real and responsible for what happened in Rendlesham Forest.
That is a de facto implication of John Burroughs getting finally his medical benefits after he nearly died.
And this is very important.
This is a very important piece.
When we got back from England from the Ancient Aliens production and all of us being in the forest, And seeing them trying to cope with finding the place in January of 2011, because we got back on approximately New Year's Day of 2011, uh, Jim Penniston and I both came back with some really bad virus, and we were both very, very sick, huh?
And John was doing okay, we recover from our virus.
And the next thing I hear from John, I'm feeling horrible.
We are thinking that it's going to be the virus.
He gets sicker and sicker, and he goes to a doctor, and they find that he is having atrial fibrillation, which means that there's out of rhythm in his heart, and his lungs are filling up with water.
And so it is a heart, it's congestion and atrial fibrillation.
The doctors.
Who now he's keeping us surprised of everything that's happening, they are completely baffled because they cannot find plaque in his arteries.
They cannot find the normal conditions that would set somebody who was then in his late 40s off on atrial fibrillation and congestive heart failure, which can be lethal.
And they can't find anything else that would explain this.
This is a very baffling period.
Yeah.
And you get to the 2013 period, and John Burroughs, working with Pat Frasconia, has been communicating with the two U.S. senators in the state where he lived, Arizona.
Started off with John Kyle, and John Kyle retired midway through their trying to find out.
John Kyle's staff gets a statement to them that.
These records are classified, but no explanation.
John Kyle retires and the baton, it's recommended, goes to John McCain.
Senator John McCain picks it up with his staff and they do a couple of really important things.
One, at that point, it's hard to believe the Veterans Administration, in that period, 2013, they had still been denying that John Burroughs had served.
In RAF Bellwaters between 1979 to 1982, even though he had his own records.
Unbelievable.
And why it was tied into the denial of medical benefits.
I see.
That were classified.
So we have learned that you can have classified medical records, and they will basically expunge or try to expunge that period of time from your records that justify why the medical records can't be granted.
Because they're classified.
Oh, that's really absurd.
So, Senator McCain gets John's DD 214 corrected.
He now stands with an absolutely correct DD 214, thanks to Senator McCain's staff.
And they are able to confirm that his medical records for that period of time are classified.
But they're able to get some medical records finally to John.
Well, thank God for that.
It's just an amazing story, starting with the three nights of sightings, years of military denial, and obfuscation by these covert intelligence agencies.
So, what is the larger takeaway from this most recent chapter in the Bentwaters Rendlesham Forest case?
If you boil all of this down to this day that you and I are speaking, John Burroughs came close to dying.
Because doctors on the civilian side didn't have information that doctors on the classified side did.
But somebody, along with Senator McCain's staff, had the guts to come forward to save this man's life.
In the saving of this man's life, we have as the basis for the information this amazing UK unidentified aerial phenomena.
460 page report that nobody knew anything about for the last couple of years that gives the context for what had happened to John Burroughs 35 years ago.
So, his interaction with these unknown craft clearly caused his medical condition.
Now, I'm curious, Linda, now that the cat is out of the bag on this, what does the Ministry of Defense have to say?
The Ministry of Defense admitted it has withheld.
18 UAP slash UFO documents, including six policy documents.
Usually, policy documents are the meat around which a government is making decisions about why something is classified.
So, the most important stuff.
And here is an April 1, 2015.
This is a headline.
Comes right from the House of Lords.
The House of Lords, a couple of people in Parliament have been paying attention to what has been happening to John Burroughs.
UK MOD delays once again release of 18 classified UFO files, admittedly withheld in FOIA correspondence with retired U.S. Air Force Tech Sergeant John Burroughs.
Ah.
So, John.
Has been able to leverage up an admission from the Ministry of Defense that, in spite of all of the fanfare of transferring everything from its UFO office to the archives, it hasn't.
And those files that went missing have to be some of these 18 withheld, still withheld.
And that last statement came because John got.
Replies from the Ministry of Defense to his FOIA that maybe by the end of 2015, this year that we're in, they would release these 18 withheld UAP slash UFO documents.
Yeah.
So some people in Parliament inquire to the MOD in their government where are these withheld RAF Bantwaters Woodbridge documents?
From the House of Lords.
Wow.
And the answer that came back was they are not going to be released in 2015.
They may be released in 2016.
Oh, well, that's really an admission that the information around these UFO encounters is highly sensitive from a military perspective.
You know, these promises of a new date of release remind me a whole lot of how the CIA kept pushing off the release of important documents.
And the JFK assassination.
You know, it's almost as if they make us wait long enough for something, they can outlast our memory and control our perception that way of history and these other phenomena.
Here, right now, in front of us, no place else to hide, the UK government has at least 18 documents that are germane to what all of us want.
The United States government, the Canadian government, every government of this planet.
To tell us the truth, what do you know about other intelligences, whether they are from another solar system, another timeline, another dimension, a parallel universe, from deep within our own Earth?
What do you know about other intelligences interacting with this planet, not just now, but for centuries in the past?
And if now, going forward in the future?
And if Jim Penniston got any kind of a legitimate telepathic download, our very present right now is tied to something that evolves for the next 40,000 to 50,000 years.
I guess that's the good news that there is a future for humanity.
And apparently a high tech future.
But even if We can do time travel if our DNA ceases to split and replicate.
That is the end game.
That would be the end of an evolutionary branch of life in this universe.
And so the size of the problem is so multi layered, could be that huge, that everything that we want to know about might be hooked into a far distant future.
And that we right now on this planet, we have been so manipulated away from even considering the truth that we're not alone in the universe, that there are other intelligences, and that past, present, and future, this is a hard one for everybody.
Past, present, and future in quantum physics may be simultaneous.
Time Travel Possibilities00:06:33
Ticking present.
We are linked just like photons are entangled.
We are linked to a far future.
Right.
This is very, very difficult.
But what if this is the truth?
Then humans threatening to nuke each other right now on planet Earth.
The feeling that we are.
On the verge of the possibility of World War III, it's insane.
Yeah, absolutely insane.
Will forces, intelligences beyond our ticking present knowing what's coming?
We're blank, we sense, but we really don't know the details.
Will that which is beyond us in time and space?
Interfere.
And would interference by current humanity be considered aggression when interference might be to save us because saving us saves them?
Huh.
Well, you've been deep in the trenches reporting on this other intelligence, probably more deeply than anyone I can think of.
Do you think that this world? Could accept that reality?
If we could, as a whole humanity, see each other as something that is extremely valuable to be cherished as life, we touched on that in our last Dark Journalist.
There is something so fundamental to beginning to grasp how we are related in time, in matter.
And in energy to everything that exists.
It's almost as if it is crucial that we will not survive ourselves if we don't start living with that sense.
And that if the non humans, which could be time travelers, they would still not be in our present time.
They would still be different in terms of 50,000 years of evolution and perhaps unrecognizable to us.
So they might as well be.
Extraterrestrial biological entities.
If they understand this, it's the first time I began to contemplate the possibility that us in a distant future, with the knowledge that humanity would have, would understand that in these centuries, this slice of Earth, let's take the last 5,000 years.
That secrecy about what they were, what they needed, and why would be so incomprehensible to the evolving primate on Earth.
That their secrecy might not be insidious at all.
That their secrecy might be protective of them and us because we are linked, but we don't understand.
We're like babies in the universe, and we are intelligent, and I think we have profound souls.
Yeah.
But for some reason, we are so self destructive.
Well, there's no getting around that.
I completely agree that this is the major problem.
And when we come back, we'll take a look at some of the more fascinating features that have come up around the off world visitors, time travel, and some early encounters with ancient humanity.
We'll be back with investigative reporter Linda Moulton Howe.
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And we're back.
This is Dark Journalist with Earth Files and Coast to Coast AM investigative reporter and star of the History Channel's Ancient Aliens TV show, Linda Moulton Howe.
And we're going to go into a field of thinking now that we've touched on here, but certainly needs deep analysis and consideration.
And that is the possibility that we're dealing with time travel here in the UFO phenomena.
Now, Linda, you've been up close on all the major contactee cases.
Are we looking at time travel?
And are there clues in these experiences?
Time travel.
Taking space time and moving it point to point, which is what quantum physicists talk about, could displace matter.
That woman, that elegant 85 year old woman who just came because she did not want to pass without sharing something that she had experienced.
She said Colonel Halt took her into the forest with her colleague late at night, wanted them to see the impressions in the ground, wanted them to see that there was beige.
The grass had literally and the ferns had changed color.
They had changed from green to beige.
Philadelphia Experiment Links00:15:13
Oh, that doesn't sound very healthy somehow.
It's non ionizing.
Oh, yeah.
Having at its frequency an impact on earth life.
Right.
And she saw burns in the trees and describes it.
So she had a first hand because Colonel Holt wanted, for reasons that are still unknown, to have these two people from the elementary school that interface with the base.
Maybe he was testing their reaction.
Who knows?
But I believe she was there and she saw this and she knew that something had happened and that it involved lights or something that was unknown.
So then, when the Monday comes after the weekend, this went through 72 hours and then Monday comes.
So it was Friday, Saturday, and Sunday were the three nights and then Monday.
She's back at the school at work, and a workman.
They had different things that were going on in the school all the time, of different workmen from Butley and the surrounding region.
And a workman came to her and said, What happened to the house leading up to the Iske?
And she was so puzzled because there was no reason for these workmen to make up anything.
So she got in her own car and said, I drove and I realized, yeah, there was this place there and it's not there now.
But nobody did anything much beyond apparently calling up the local police.
One of the workmen said he called the police and said, What happened to this house?
It is so interesting that John Burroughs and I and others have tried very hard to get accurate.
Ordnance survey maps or aerials.
Today we have Google of everything.
Sure.
Well, we're back in 1980, just trying to get really accurate aerials or ordnance survey maps from 79 and 80.
It's like they have been removed from the local county records office, where they should be, from everywhere.
You can do a Google search.
That's fascinating.
Yeah, try to do a Google search for 1979, 1980 ordnance survey or aerial maps of this particular area of the East Gate.
So, That's an anomaly.
The woman is describing an anomaly that might or might not fit into the old historic alleged Philadelphia experiment.
Right.
And if I hadn't had my own discussion as director of special projects at the CBS station in Denver, it was after I had done a strange harvest.
And I got a call from a resident in Denver who said, because I'm dealing with.
UFOs, animal mutilations, beans, all of those questions.
This man called and said, I saw your documentary and I want you to know that I think something really did real happened at the Philadelphia experiment, which has always been controversial.
Yes.
So I met with this man and he said, I had a person moved into the apartment next to mine.
He was in an apartment, not a house.
And he said, This man and I would share beers after work.
So we would sit outside of our apartments and talk.
And he said, One night, this man said, I was a teenager in '52.
My mother worked at the Pentagon.
Parents got their teenagers' summer jobs in the Pentagon, winding.
The microfilm machines, which then were the way that things were saved and looked at.
Right.
Remember, it was mechanical, used to be in newspapers.
You'd sit there and get seasick looking at these things.
And he said, So my mom got me this job, and he thought the year was 52.
And I am sitting at the microfilm machine, and two people came in.
One was a general.
With all of the ribbons on his uniform.
And one was a woman.
She also had ribbons on.
And it's the woman who appears to be briefing the general and asked for a specific number.
And the man who has this firsthand experience winds down.
And he said, They treated me always like I was a piece of furniture.
I wasn't a human with a mind, ears, and eyes.
I think I get that.
In the Pentagon, teenagers hired to do physical work, they can't possibly understand anything that's being said.
There is that kind of gestalt disconnect that humans often underestimate, other humans around them.
And the frame, as the man who had the discussion is telling me, I remember this so distinctly the frame sitting in front of the teenager is the profile of a boat or ship.
And he hears them talking about an event that happened on this ship not long ago.
And that the woman says to the general, And did you know that one of the men on that ship ended up embedded in a brick wall in Italy?
Whoa.
Over, and that was supposed to have happened.
The Philadelphia experiment in October of 1943.
Definitely.
Oh, yeah.
If I had heard only that one story from that one man in Denver having lived next door to that apartment, I'd probably never even be thinking about sharing it today.
Sure.
But if you go on to the web, if you just type in, As a surge.
Philadelphia experiment embedded bodies.
I did this.
You get all kinds of stories and you get illustrations.
People have done illustrations based on other people's stories of seeing hands, feet, faces embedded in the hull of the ship, let alone how many people would have known that a man got transported.
Like point to point in magnetic fields into Italy, embedded in a brick wall.
Unbelievable.
I'm assuming that man was dead.
Yeah.
But that it would have been hugely sensational at the moment in a village someplace.
And then police would have been called and there would have been phone calls.
And eventually it would have been a military question.
And then there would have been a group in the United States that would have known and said, Oh my God.
And they did shut down that research.
That has always been the mystery.
And I've talked with other people who have claimed firsthand knowledge.
Well, whether we can prove ever that the Philadelphia experiment was a legitimate US effort based on Einsteinian physics to see if they could make a big naval ship disappear that was supposed to be the goal become invisible because of what they were doing with microwaves and magnetic fields.
That's supposed to be the story.
We may never, ever be able to prove it because the government would not want this proved.
Exactly.
But there are so many data points that would suggest we have this technology, even if we can't fully control it.
And we certainly couldn't back when Einstein was helping to develop this for our military after World War II.
And as you mentioned, it became the legend of the Philadelphia experiment.
But what does the understanding of this advanced technology tell us about the off world time travel visitors?
Current physics.
The whole issue.
If you're in a fabric in a cosmos, if you are dealing with timelines, which is what the Jim Peniston story implies, and you have technology that can move through time and space, let's say it's 40,000 years here and it's coming to Earth.
In 1980, and that remember the explosion of white light, and Pennison says this black glassy triangle just seemed to come out of the light.
And that the point to point, like this, if we knew all of the truths and the facts, there might be matter displacement.
When time travelers move point to point through time, and as far as extraterrestrial biological entities going from a solar system someplace else and moving into a magnetic field,
these are areas where the woman who worked at that school, who came because she just wanted to share what she knew firsthand, that it might.
Contribute something to the work we were doing on ancient aliens.
The description of a house that disappeared, that there were workmen who knew it disappeared, that policemen were contacted, but all the maps have conveniently disappeared too.
Right.
It may be a key to physics, technology, and that our government and the US government.
Our US government and the UK government don't want anybody to know about this kind of physical evidence.
And as they always say, they're afraid everybody's going to panic.
Well, it's the ultimate excuse, right?
Just like surrender your freedom for security and we'll protect you.
That's right.
The thing is, you've dealt with thousands of people in your career investigating this other intelligence.
And in some cases, these people had no interest in the ET reality before it dropped in their lap.
But they seem to adjust to it.
And I don't know, how do you think people would respond to real evidence of off world visitors?
I personally have come to the conclusion that I do not think that we're on a planet where people are going to panic in the face of this kind of information.
I think there would, in general, be a huge sigh of relief.
Finally, the governments are telling the truth.
Yes.
Finally, all these people who have felt like they were behind an ape.
Ball because they had an experience, but if they tell anybody, they will be ostracized, ridiculed, demeaned because this is a subject that the government says does not exist.
Right.
So instead of living in an upside down, bass, backwards, Alice in Wonderland planet where everything is concocted, if we could just get past this and get to real, honest facts and truth.
No matter how strange they are, this is what I think the human family needs.
We need to know what the 1% on this planet knows, or otherwise, Daniel, you tell me, does it not feel like right now in the United States, with one half of 1% of the population making most of the money, in the planet as an entirety of 7.2 billion,
in which 1% Is making most of all the money.
That if we don't move in populations and social entities into some kind of a renewed relationship between people and leaders, we are essentially going to put ourselves on a prison planet.
Well, I think it's a recipe for disaster.
You know, those who possess these enormous advantages.
In financial wealth at the expense of others, and then this larger picture of this breakaway civilization with advanced technology, advanced science, advanced medicine.
When things get too secret, too top heavy, too centralized in history, it leads to dire consequences.
Exactly.
So, in some ways, ending the secrecy may actually be in the best interest of these hidden forces, but I don't think they will for any reason.
What do you, in your, I guess I want to say your intuitive inner self, what do you personally think that the UK and the US governments should say about R.E.F. Bentwaters Woodbridge?
Nuclear Ordinance Inspection00:05:11
Well, I think they should come out and openly say that this was an alien intelligence of some kind and that they did their best to deal with it and that they found no way to control it.
But that it was certainly under intelligent control.
I think at this point, they should also reveal the fact you know, one of the things we haven't mentioned too much about is that it looked like these unidentified craft were inspecting the nuclear ordinances that were stored there on the base.
So that, I think, would be a valuable part of this to explore further.
Very good point.
It really is.
I talked with Rick Bobo.
He was the guy up in the weapons storage area tower.
Yeah.
And he was, he, he, I'll never forget the astonishment, ironic astonishment, with which he did an interview with me about everything that he saw and experienced on that, what appeared to be, it could have been the third night.
He wasn't sure because we've got three nights.
But nevertheless, he sees this, I'm holding it up, it was enormous.
It was an enormous spherical ball of light.
He's in the tower.
There are the nukes down below.
Here is this huge ball of light.
And he calls more than once to Central Security Control.
And each time he calls, because he's really worried, he sees white little lights leaving the big light and going right down into Randall's forests.
That's first hand testimony from Rick Bobo.
I mean, both times that he called Central Security Control, they said, We have it taken care of.
What have they got taken care of?
Yeah.
And a man, this was one of the more mysterious parts of the Rick Bobo testimony, a man in a civilian suit, not military, comes up into the tower, doesn't explain anything, walks over to the WSA tower.
Stands there without saying a thing to Rick Bobo.
He obviously had some badge that Rick Bobo would never have gotten in the door if he hadn't had this ability to have a code that he could have.
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
And that when he came in, somebody who had the clearance to be in that tower, Rick Bobo would not have the rank to challenge.
That's what I mean by this.
And that the man, without explaining anything, walks over and looks out.
And Rick Boba said the man was there for maybe 10 or 15 minutes just watching.
Turns around, not a single word, and goes down, back down.
Those testimonies from these guys imply that there was the presence of knowledgeable people during this whole affair.
Who had some information, and either there was no effort to talk with, we'll call them the working military, because they knew that there was nothing they could do about it, because they knew that they were time travelers, they didn't want to have to deal with it.
If it was extraterrestrial, this was classified from World War II.
There were all these possible compartmentalized policies.
In these big boxes that may have had every single person at that base, including Gordon Williams, tied up in a silent knot.
And I should mention here, because I can just imagine somebody listening to this and thinking, well, why didn't he just challenge these guys?
But the military doesn't really work like that.
What we don't understand in the civilian world, when you're in the military and you sign non disclosure statements and they say you will go to prison.
Your family will get no pension.
You will have an honorable discharge.
You will be court martialed as often.
What would any most people do?
This is really a difficult area because all of us can understand that our military needs secrets.
We can't have everything we're trying to do with enemies like ISIS and Iran out.
Definitely.
You can have.
Tremendous compassion and understanding for what must go on at that level.
Sumerian Interaction Stories00:08:20
But on the other hand, we're trying, I think, in these discussions, we're trying to deal with what appears to be an absolute reality that one or more other intelligences that are not Homo sapiens sapiens, that's this current model of you, me, and everybody.
That there are other intelligences that have been interacting with terraforming and harvesting genetic material from this planet for thousands of years.
Interesting.
So, just for the context, what story or ancient tradition is a good example that can be explained as an early interaction by an ET group with a human civilization?
The alleged Anunnaki being extraterrestrials in Mesopotamia.
Mixing and matching genes to create worker bees that would be humanity, while the so called gods that were not gods but ETs carried on all kinds of intimidating those Sumerian gods.
By all accounts, to the men and women who studied Harriet Crawford and Budge and others that described this very intimidating role relationship.
Between the so called Sumerian gods and the roly poly humans, and the very fact that those ziggurats would be built with a little house on top and it was the place for the ritual of the fairest human female to walk up these steps and commune sexually with the so called Sumerian god.
You, I'm going to just call it for what I see it that's a hybridization machine.
Uh huh.
Well.
Hybridization between something else and humans, and before that, Neanderthal, and back and back and back, genetic manipulation, tweaking, standing up primates.
It could fit in to a survival mission that is us in the future.
It could fit in to a survival mission.
Scenario of extraterrestrials that have been in exodus from another solar system for reasons unknown and are trying to survive.
Absolutely.
But where the Sumerian interaction sounds like it got out of hand, we have other stories of almost angelic, beneficent visitors.
So I suppose we need to determine just who or what is trying to survive.
That brings us.
To, I guess, the ground and why I've got this series that I'm doing at Earth Files now that I call The Maze of Deception.
Oh, yes.
Graphic of a maze.
Because there have been also tributaries that have come over the last 5,000 years suggesting that there are influences on the planet that are negative, that want to eradicate all of humanity.
In fact, that goes even to the Zechariah Sitchin description of Enlil and Enki being the two brothers ahead of the Mesopotamian Sumerian gods.
Enki favors, wants to protect these human worker bees that they have made with genetic manipulation.
Enlil wants to erase, eradicate, destroy all that they have made simply because they genetically made it.
For to be a worker bee.
That's what it boils down to.
And there's that theme again of two strong opposing factions.
That's right.
Which is fascinating.
Now, the time travel aspect I find interesting because you've done so much intense work around the ET factor and their interaction with ordinary people.
And you've talked, let's face it, to more of these witnesses on a deep level than anyone else in the field.
So when you think back on all those encounters, the interactions, the things that have happened, Can you attribute those cases to time traveling humans versus extraterrestrials?
Or do you recall that there were stories that made you think that at the time?
That is really a good question.
And my mind is racing around over the various categories of people in the abduction syndrome.
And I'll tell you what is immediately coming to mind.
Okay.
I started working on the animal mutilation investigation in September of 79.
Got broadcast May 25th, 1980.
Bud Hopkins' Missing Time came out right there at the beginning of 1980.
And the whole, I would say, the focus on most of the discussions back then was are these extraterrestrials harming us?
Do they want to hurt us?
Are they helping us?
Because there was a mixture even then of what people experienced.
Right.
And of the, we'll say, the literature that was reporting human abductions, whether it was Hopkins or Europe or South America or wherever it was, I will never forget one story where a, we'll call it roly poly human, comes up to a stop sign like two o'clock in the morning in town.
Sees a tall being, this was not a short being, sees a tall being, I think it was in a leotard.
And this is the issue did it just pop in?
Did it come down?
Did it walk in?
It's never been clear.
Just suddenly sees.
It could have been a pop in, like the glassy craft popped in in Peniston and Rendlesham.
But nevertheless, waiting at a stop, like 2 a.m., tall being walks over.
To the driver's side, and the driver's window was open.
I remember that.
And the driver's side hears this being say, What time is it?
And the guy looks at his clock in his car and says, It's 2 15.
And this tall being says, No, it's not 2 15 for me.
We have different times.
That was literally one of the testimonies of the discussion from a case that went back, I think, into the 50s or the 60s, from a person who experienced this, didn't know what had happened, but remembered the dialogue.
Because to a human who would look at their clock and tell, even if it was something that they might even be scared of, who asks, What time is it?
They say, 2 15.
No, no, it's not 2 15.
We have a different time.
That is part of what I call the theatrical production of the non humans that has come up over and over in the human abduction syndrome.
Behind the Matrix Scenes00:03:16
It is as if we are dealing with something that realizes a complete difference in the human mind, that if we get telepathic thought coming in, there's no guarantee that all humans are going to get all telepathic communication the same way.
I've heard this from now dozens of people who say our government's great frustration in the 40s to the 50s is that they realized that humans aren't equal in getting telepathic communication equally.
And that our government has even looked for translators in schools and complete secret programs, trying to find people who would actually get accurate telepathic communication because they knew we were dealing with this.
That's fascinating.
Now, if you are, let's say it could be a time traveler, another dimension, or an extraterrestrial from another solar system, and you have an interest in harvesting genetic material, interacting with this planet, and knowing at times you are going to be visible.
There's something about the physics of it that can be invisible a lot of the time with technology deflecting photons.
But there are times when something about the propulsion or something, they have to be visible.
Yes.
And that they don't want the current humanity, whichever slice of time that this has been, they don't want consciousness.
And let's just paint it in the most positive way.
They don't want us to be conscious because what their need, and you've got to remember, I think this is a very important.
The need of anything defines agenda.
Right.
Their need seems always to have boiled down to genetic harvesting and manipulation.
Ah.
They need something about genetic material.
If they remain behind the scenes, behind the matrix, while they accomplish their need, it's easier.
If this planet or any planet where there has to be a harvest of genetic material for survival, that life on those planets becomes conscious, there might be resistance, there might be challenge.
So, doing things behind the scenes, behind the matrix, doesn't necessarily mean negative intent to humans at all.
In fact, it may be in their great interest to keep us alive.
To keep nuclear weapons out of our hands, to do whatever is possible to help the environment, that there is a real benefit in keeping humans alive but unconscious of what's happening.
Husband Wife Experiences00:15:20
Yeah.
Now, can you think of an encounter case where this theme of doing what is best for us came up?
I'll give you an example.
Sure.
It's a really strong one Colorado.
Thanksgiving, I believe it was 1985.
It's in my book, An Alien Harvest.
And I lay out the whole thing.
And it was a case that took Richard Sigismund in Boulder, a hypnotherapist, and we worked on it for two solid years, keeping the husband and wife completely separate.
One would do hypnosis and the other.
I see.
All of the suggestions, they didn't talk.
So, a really in depth case if it's two years.
Oh, it was.
And the husband was a commercial artist.
He did probably the finest illustrations that you could ever find.
And they're all reprinted in an alien harvest in color.
And here are the bullets.
The husband and wife are coming back from a Thanksgiving dinner.
Their car, the first thing, both husband and wife saw light on their dashboard and window as if a big truck was coming up behind them fast.
Okay.
The Wife turns around and looks.
The husband looks in the rear mirror.
They see cerulean blue.
That's a blue, it's kind of a greenish blue light coming in.
But the husband, watching in the rear view mirror, sees the back of the car rise.
Huh.
He's totally in real time in his rear view mirror seeing the back of his car rise.
They.
Under hypnosis now, because unconsciousness seems to be used protectively to the human mind over and over again, which is why I sometimes think they were dealing with something that has some kind of compassion for it.
That's a great point, yeah.
But now, under hypnosis, the wife is looking down, the husband is still hanging on to the steering wheel, but they now know.
Because they're looking, the car is now up in the air and they realize they're in this beam.
And as they are rising, they both describe looking at each other, sort of screaming, and both are unconscious until the car is on the ground.
They see an egg shaped pale craft with what look like erector set legs, which I've been told is an even craft.
Those erector set legs are part of the technology that they use in some cases.
They see a tall being, they think it's tall, no hair.
We're not talking big black eyes, we're talking a different type, wearing a blue collar cape.
The husband thinks this is the craziest thing.
If this is UFOs and ETs, What the is somebody wearing an old fashioned cape with a collar coming out?
The wife's experience is wow, what a beautiful being.
The wife is getting total, everything is wonderful.
The husband is, this makes no sense.
Right.
But they can't resist.
They both have.
Eventually, the same mental attraction they come into sync, mental attraction to go to where this being is.
Now, we're now UAP radiation that can manipulate human minds and brains.
They now find themselves moving toward this being as if it's the only thing in the world they want to do.
This being is important.
This goes on into many pieces.
The husband's experience with these Eben Grays includes they're taking out my mind.
I will never forget that hypnosis session.
He was a very smart, high IQ man, speaking rapidly in normal conversation, extremely articulate.
And you hear his voice, I know what it was like.
2001, how at the end, Daisy, Daisy, and they're pulling out the computer.
Oh, yeah, slowing down.
So, here is this man in hypnosis in Colorado who, in beta consciousness, is and he's under hypnosis and he says, They're taking out my.
And it went just, that's really close, what I just did.
And it's complete silence.
And Richard Sigismund tried, I believe, for 10 minutes on the clock, saying this man's name.
You can tell me what is happening.
Amazing.
Nothing.
Nothing.
And eventually, however, this works, in Hypnosis and experiences.
The man, they're putting my mind back and they've added something and now he's coming alive.
And the adding has been echoed in so many other abduction cases that I have interviewed or been involved with observing hypnosis.
What they had added.
There are so many other dimensions.
You are not aware what you do in your dimension.
Like a lot of abductees have gotten the impression that if we explode atomic bombs or hydrogen bombs, we are tearing, tearing into other dimensions with no knowledge of the consequences of what we're doing.
And what this man said they had added was.
You are all of you, you are not aware of all these other dimensions, and that in your lifetime, to the husband and wife, in your lifetime, an event will occur that there may be a lot of catastrophe, but you will all this is very important you will all come out of whatever this future is,
every single soul surviving.
Transitioning in death or surviving in life, every single soul that goes through this will come out the other side.
That from here forward, no matter how many recycling lives, that soul will never ever willfully want to go down that path again.
So, in the big box, that everything that we're going through is at the soul level where it counts, but now.
Let's go back with this as the background.
Okay.
That's the husband's experience.
His mind is taken out, material is added.
He feels very angry, tremendously angry that they have him so vulnerable that they can do this to him.
The wife ends up on a table, vaginal probe, breast probe.
She is enraged.
Under hypnosis, she cursed more.
And more loudly than anybody I have ever seen under hypnosis.
Whew, that's major.
Every name in the book, she's trying to kick, she's trying to hit.
She is a human that is fighting to the death.
But we're dealing, which is probably related to the unidentified aerial phenomena, non ionizing radiation that can control human minds and brains.
No matter how much she tries to fight, There's always the paralysis.
Right.
It's the fighting.
It's like there's no possibility of overcoming them.
But for a brief period, she was herself fighting.
They are doing what they need to do, and she's enraged.
She did not know.
Neither knew.
That she was two months pregnant carrying a fetus, and they're Catholic.
Now, remember what I just said to you because I will come back to it, but I want you to know they do vaginal probe, they did some sort of tubes and stuff on her breasts.
And when she's finally released, she wants to be back with her husband, and she's very upset.
She's making demands.
They've now released her from the paralysis.
She wants to be with her husband.
Where is he?
And a tall, the tall man that has no hair in the beautiful blue cape appears.
Telepathically, he is communicating, I am so sorry.
That you are so upset.
That is not our intent.
And then, like theatrical production, she says it's as if this being somehow has her enter some space, and there is this hallway, and lined up along the hallway are gray beings all bowed down.
They go into physical, they bow down.
And the tall being has her walk through, saying mentally, We mean no harm.
We mean no disrespect.
And they're doing this, they're bowing to her.
That's fascinating.
That is the theatrical production in human abduction syndromes, where the beings seem to play with holograms.
They seem to do these theatrical productions.
But in her case, it's fascinating.
She's very bright, like her husband.
And the theatrical production made her even more angry.
And she is blasting out under hypnosis to the tall being saying, This is phony.
You're making this all up.
And that the being at that point seems to be giving up to the inability to make this woman accept an apology.
These words, this had to be done.
And she got this, whether I understand it or anybody understands this, this had to be done.
Well, now, we've been talking about genetic harvesting, perhaps to keep time travelers alive, us alive.
When they get home, it was another week or so, she becomes deathly sick.
Her husband has to hospitalize her.
The doctors are very puzzled.
They do not know exactly what the problem is, but in the process of all the blood tests, they find that she is pregnant.
The husband and the wife are told.
And the doctors say your temperature has been in the 104 to 105 degree Fahrenheit range.
Our advice is we should take this, we should abort this, because there would be no possibility of any normal brain.
And they have this discussion with the doctors in the hospital.
And the husband and wife, as Catholics, end up telling the doctor, we can't.
It's against our religion.
I'm going to have this child.
She was hospitalized, I believe it was for three or four weeks.
This is how sick she is, knowing that she's carrying this fetus and the doctors know.
Right.
Go forward to the seventh month, not the ninth, the seventh month.
Okay.
Based on medical exam.
Geometrical Ground Patterns00:10:25
And she goes into early.
Delivery.
These are the same doctors now that have been through this from the right after this abduction, but they don't know about the abduction.
Right.
The husband and wife do.
At seven months on the estimated clock, with the doctors telling him that there's no possibility this child could have a normal brain with that kind of temperature in the mother at that period of time when the brain is being formed in the first six, eight, 12 weeks.
The baby is born with the weight and the length of a full term, probably 10 month old baby.
The child ends up advanced to this day, is a brilliant genius in microbiology.
Wow.
The parents have never ever told him.
I have seen them many, many times.
Over the years, I consider them friends.
They consider me a friend.
I don't take what's happening in their life to the media.
Right.
But the three of us look at what has evolved in their son.
He is considered a genius in microbiology.
He is physically strong, he has always been advanced.
And the parents ask me, What did they do in that ship?
I fought.
So hard.
What did they do?
Did they do something to protect?
Did they do something to manipulate?
Is this child a hybrid?
Well, that is fascinating.
And they certainly saved the child for some reason.
And is a huge contributor.
To a very important science on this planet.
So you come through case after case after case, even though it felt so negative.
The woman felt everything was phony, the theatrical production.
And yet, today, like so many of us, what is the real agenda?
And if we are dealing with something that is trying to survive itself, the manipulation in this case may have been profoundly linked to medical science in relationship to a planet in which humans themselves may end up hurting humans so badly, and that in the end it will be the microbiologists.
And the doctors and the geneticists of this world who will be left trying to shepherd humanity onward.
Yeah.
So, was this a truly positive gift?
Amazing.
Well, it sure seems like it.
And what are we dealing with in terms of intent?
From Bentwaters to abductees, animal mutilations, maybe even crop formation.
Well, I'm glad you mentioned Crop Circles because, of course, this Bentwaters case is not your first major investigation in England.
You did this remarkable book, which is Mysterious Lights in Crop Circles, in 1999, I want to say.
That was 2000.
1999 is the summer I was there, and then the book came out, first edition in 2000, and the second edition in 2002.
Exactly.
That's a powerful book, by the way.
Thank you very much.
That I had a strong spiritual component in it because there is something about the crop formations.
You can't be exposed to the real phenomena, which a lot of us were in 92 and 93 before any of the so called hoaxers.
And you know that you are dealing with something that affects you at a soul level in a profound way.
There's no other way to put it.
And that you are looking at seven, eight layers of crops that are laid down in.
What appear to be geometrical patterns from the ground up.
And the idea that you can have something 400 feet with seven or eight layers, all designed with designs going all the way down to the ground, people don't realize how absolutely amazing some of these are.
And that if we knew all the truth, every single layer could have a mathematical language, layers and layers of mathematical language.
And this is how complex it is.
Well, the crop formations forget the.
Hoaxers, forget counterintelligence, operating, paying people to do crop circle contests that muddies the waters so that the world will stay away from the real phenomena.
Right.
When you consider what we've been talking about in the RAF Bentwaters context, and then you go back to 1993 and a conversation that I had with a man, my suspicion is.
That he was working for the Central Intelligence Agency.
Yes.
But when he approached me in this pattern where I was, he said, I know somebody who works for the CIA, and he has told me that they have a bunch of Cray computers that are trying to download from satellites as many of the crop formations as they appear, trying to put them in.
Chronological order, date, time, and the latitude, longitude.
Because the CIA in the late 80s to the early 90 91 92 period were trying to do a chronological order and a geophysical order of all the crop formations as they were appearing on this planet with the idea of looking for mathematical language.
And then he said, The CIA thinks that we are dealing with time travelers and that the crop formations are their efforts to gauge how accurate going back in time they are to the positions and places that they want to go,
and that the crop formations are markers in time being used like gauges of accuracy.
Oh, that's incredible!
And that was.
The summer of 1993 in Wiltshire.
We're talking now in 2015.
There are even more discussions today like that one now.
Right.
And yet, look how effective counterintelligence is when there is a subject that they want to deflect the public and the media's attention.
All you have to do is, it's a hoax.
It's all people with strings and boards, impossible.
The science alone.
Oh, yes.
Oh, you know, the whole Doug and Dave and the bought off stories were just absurd, ridiculous cover stories.
But you've actually been in the circles.
Yeah.
And you experienced the kind of electromagnetic rise of energy that's there.
Now, it seemed like you could feel it even apart from being able to examine it scientifically.
What did it feel like?
Well, The first one, interestingly enough, I think is the most dramatic of all.
It was summer 92.
It's my first trip.
I had produced UFO report sightings for Fox the year before, and it had broadcasts.
We had crop formations in that pilot, that was the reason why I became extremely aware of getting news articles from all over the planet.
And that between 1990 and 1991, crop formations have been photographed, written about in 23 countries.
They ranged To wet rice paddies in Japan, circles, long horizontal corridors.
I mean, we weren't talking just circles, these were patterns.
So I go to England in the summer of 92 for the first time to get in what I have been studying from around the world while I was working on UFO report sightings.
And I had arrived, I think it was July 24th, 1992, got to Heathrow, drove into Wiltshire.
And it was the afternoon, two days later, and there were half a dozen of us, and we had heard that there was this relatively new pattern, very big, of just circles and winding paths, not a geometric pattern in the sense of what you think of.
This was huge, but a series of circles that were wound by paths.
Massive Crop Circles Found00:08:27
So we parked and went on these hilltops.
When you get up to Milk Hill, You're up high and you're looking down on these fields in the Vale of Pusey, and they've been there 2,000 years.
Right.
Been growing wheat and barley and canola or rapeseed, as they say there.
So that's what this land has done and does it grows cereal crops.
And when we got up above the horse at Millkill and we're looking down, it was like we turned into little kids.
There was something about the air and the energy, and we all started sort of running down the hill.
And where the tram lines went along this huge 400 foot long pattern, the half a dozen of us, and I guess I must have gone down or been leading because I was the furthest down the tram line.
So everybody was stopping at different points.
Think about this this is bigger than a football field.
Yeah.
So five or six people.
Stopping at various places along this 400 feet, you can see everybody's kind of in their own place.
I'm down here.
And I had this energy in me, this playful energy with my 35 millimeter Nikon camera with the lens hanging like this to just go in there and experience it.
And that's the energy, that's the intent as I start moving a few feet toward the edge.
Of what I can see is one of these big circles.
And I hit jello.
There is no other word.
It felt like jello.
It shocked me.
I hit it with my face, my body, and it was so startling, not scary, but substantial enough that I stopped.
And what in the world?
So, I remember I brought my camera up and I'm looking like this.
I'm going now.
I'm going down close on the zoom and I'm exploring the circle through the camera lens, standing at the edge, feeling this jello holding me back.
I could see that the other people weren't going in either.
And as I am doing this with the camera and I'm looking down, I could see like here, here was wheat going this way.
And wheat like this, I could see areas where it was perfect 90 degree angles crossed.
And now I am so intrigued.
I want to see what this feels like.
And so I move forward anyway.
But as soon as I move forward, it felt like I was treading on something sacrosanct that I shouldn't be stepping on.
Right, right.
Huge feeling.
So now I go up on my toes, which is.
Actually, silly, but you don't feel like you're trumping down quite as much.
I'm on my toes and I go to the area that I had seen through the lens and I got down on my knees.
And on my knees, where I had seen this, like 90 degrees like that, I picked up the top layer here and I picked up that layer into my complete, absolute.
Inability to comprehend.
Here's another layer going at 45 degrees to the two top 90 degrees.
I lift it up.
Now I've got three.
I go down to the fourth.
It's perfectly 45 degree angle.
Now it's the fourth layer.
I went down seven layers.
Oh, that's incredible.
I'm holding this up in absolute astonishment.
And now I can feel the soil below the seventh layer.
And when I let all of these down and I am I don't even.
How can anything do this?
How could anything put seven layers all going in different geometric patterns for the size bigger than a football field?
I'm in one of the circles.
Wow.
And as I remember this so vividly that I was in a complete state of astonishment, just completely astonished.
I had this feeling.
A pull, it was like I need to go to the right feeling.
And without understanding what was happening, I just started moving to the right, trying to not step on much of this crop.
Remember, this is my first crop for me.
Oh, yeah.
And I, everybody else is down that way, and now I'm being pulled.
It felt like I was being pulled.
To the very end, and the very end was another circle, and then it was just solid wheat.
So when I get there, it's like standing on a wall.
In other words, the wheat is up like here going out in late July.
You know, it's getting close to harvest in August.
Sure.
And I get to this curved wall.
And I'm looking out at this absolutely just gorgeous wheat heads.
It's just solid, like looking at a carpet that's three or four feet high.
And this thought, this kind of like I was enveloped, these were the words that came into my head.
I've never forgotten them.
Life on this planet is not guaranteed.
And as those thoughts came into my head, right there at the edge of that circle looking out, What popped into my mind's eye was the face of a Siberian tiger.
And all my life, I have loved the cats, the big, big cats.
Oh, right.
And others that, when you go to a zoo and you look at their eyes, you are looking at huge intelligence.
You know, you don't have to speak language with those big cats.
You're dealing with really profound intelligence, and you can tell it from their eyes.
So, standing there with those thought words, life on this planet is not guaranteed, comes the head of one of these beautiful cats.
And what I felt simultaneously was profound intelligence, danger, and that something was hanging in the balance.
That's exactly.
What I felt standing there.
And from that day forward, in every crop formation that I've ever been in, that experience was something so profound.
It was as if every part of me, every particle of me was known, accessed, processed as I stood there, like a one way street and back, leaving me with this is dealing with the future of this planet.
Entering Dangerous Chaos00:05:05
This is dealing with the future of what humanity is going to do.
What a powerful communication and just a profound experience, really.
Interesting how you'd go from being in a more kind of journalistic, logical frame of mind and then be lifted into this other field of communication.
I think that's what makes this experience so unique.
It was, and it is, and I don't think it's ended.
I think that the crop formations.
The real ones of that magnitude will continue into this summer, and that something, something is, I think, struggling from maybe it's a dimension, is struggling to make us wake up, is struggling in its own way.
To make humanity survive itself.
But life is not guaranteed here.
There is not going to be the ride of the Valkyrie over the hill to save all humanity from itself.
And that may be the story in Colorado, so many of the abductions where people feel like they are given.
Holographic images of the future.
And that in the future, there comes a time of tremendous chaos.
And after, there is some survival, but nothing is the same again.
And that may be what everybody is feeling on the planet the sense of agitation that people have been describing for the last year or two, and the sense that we are now as dangerous a time.
As 1945, and it was the United States who dropped those two atomic bombs on Japan.
Absolutely.
What a disaster with untold ramifications beyond all imagination.
Now, I do get the sense from what you're saying that you feel we could be entering a potentially dangerous stage of our own technological and spiritual development.
Do you feel that the threat of a nuclear exchange has increased?
And you mentioned World War II there, where atomic weapons were used.
If there were to be a World War III, do you think they would use these kinds of weapons now?
No country has done it since.
But what if this is the century that it happens again and that all of the interactions in abductions,
backwaters, mutilations, Crop formations, all of it wound together in a complex braid is because something knows that humanity can't get out of this century without a lot of self destruction.
I see.
It's been a harvest before that destruction.
But if Peniston is right from RAF Ben Waters, some of humanity.
Is still struggling to survive 40 to 50,000 years in the future, which means no matter how rocky it gets, we somehow get over to another road that goes on for 40 or 50,000 more years until there's another huge problem.
And probably if we knew all of the big picture, somewhere in this Galaxy, other galaxies, this universe, other universes, other dimensions.
That these theatrical plays of souls challenged over and over and over again by survival in the face of various challenges, that it happens everywhere because there is a machinery to the whole universe.
Meaning, the universe with a capital U, no matter how many universes, the cosmos, there is a machinery.
And that the fundamental machinery is the recycling of souls in and out of matter in order to grow and evolve.
Soul Recycling Machinery00:10:32
So, the genetic harvesting could be a hearkening back to this kind of archetype of Noah's Ark, that preservation symbology, saving this important genetic material.
Just in case, to guarantee a future of some kind for the world.
I think when I hear you say that, that a big part of me resonates and says, not only do I hope that's the truth, but there really are evidentiary statements by people in the human abduction syndrome and even Bentwaters that would say that is the truth.
Uh huh.
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, Linda, your work is so interesting.
You know, if we just chart what you've done from a strange harvest and going through these years, doing these powerful books and television specials, HBO documentaries, and the countless lectures and interviews, and all of this ancient aliens, coast to coast AM radio just incredible knowledge you've brought into the public consciousness.
Now, when you look out at the audience now, the people that are out there, how do they strike you?
Do you think that they're getting the message now better than they were?
Or is it more difficult somehow to get it across because they're bombarded by distractions, too much information?
What is the state of the audience from where you stand looking out?
Well, remember, you started by asking me how it was at Eureka Springs, and I said in 35 years that was perhaps one of the most rewarding exchanges with an audience.
That's right, there were about 500 people, and when an audience stands up en masse, it's because they are resonating.
With content.
And I was trying to work with REF Bentwaters and how we went through most of the beginning of the program that it's complex, it's complicated, and we have been deliberately denied as a species the ability to interact with this knowledge by our leaders and governments.
Yeah.
So to be able to present 90 minutes and John Burroughs contributing his perspective as well.
To an audience that has that kind of reaction, that's what I meant.
It is as if those people and people everywhere are becoming independent from government influence.
They are resonating with material that they either because of experiences they have or because it's just becoming obvious.
The crack in the ice that we're alone in the universe is already made.
It's there.
There are people all over the planet who are there where the ice is melting, and they know this is, governments are becoming, in that regard, irrelevant.
And it is further reinforced when I speak at conferences, and teenagers and 20 year olds will run up to me and they'll say, Linda, tell us about which extraterrestrials are here and what do they want.
And they'll say, We don't, we're not interested in any of this stuff about whether we're alone.
We know we're not alone.
We know the universe has other life.
This is the 025 generation.
They're already there.
Yeah.
And sometimes I wonder is this exactly what happened around Neanderthalensis and the earlier primates that I have crossed?
The 20th to the 21st century, at a time when a new generation was being born, perhaps manipulated by other intelligences specifically, to be more digital, to be already aware, conscious of other life, that they don't need other adult humans and books.
They have already made a transition, just like the ones that are so digitally adaptable, while people in their 60s and 70s have a hard time.
With the digital world, and that something has happened that is manipulated and manipulated for a transition, and that we are seeing it.
We're beginning to feel it, those of us who have gone through decades, that an audience's reaction with such unanimity to complex material says to me something hugely has changed, independent of government counterintelligence.
And policies of denial and lies.
Neanderthal did not know it was being replaced by Homo sapiens sapiens.
That's true.
The new model.
Are we being replaced by another form of primate that will be less violent and perhaps more adaptable to the earth?
At the end of this century going forward, to get a perspective of fact about a universe so large and complex, I actually think is impossible for the human mind because we appear to be manipulated, perhaps manipulated positively.
But how will Homo sapiens ever have a reality check on advanced?
Intelligences telling us here is the truth.
By definition, humans always want reality checks.
And we find ourselves in this bizarre situation where the leaders and the 1% tell us this doesn't exist, while huge swaths of the 99% are having first hand experiences, while the intelligences themselves Continue to cultivate an agenda.
The very fact that we are inside of somebody else's agenda means we cannot get a reality check.
And that may be how the evolutionary transition keeps going.
And Homo sapiens sapiens will be replaced, and replaced perhaps by a generation that runs up to me and says, Tell me about the different extraterrestrials and what they want.
I can't.
I don't have the facts.
I only have details from human abductees.
But there are young people who are already there.
The three inch headlines have been published.
They're on the other side.
And in a strange way, it gives me a kind of hope.
Yes, I can see that.
I can definitely see that.
Well, it is amazing, and I think the message must be getting through.
You know, the incredible response to your last visit here on the show is a part of that.
It's so rare in alternative media to see thousands of people all sharing their unique take on this powerful work you're putting forward.
And I think, especially now, the impact of your work is just coming full circle.
Your discoveries, your research, what you brought to the surface long before it was in vogue.
And in this field, concepts become appropriated so often that it's easy to imagine that they were always there.
But I know that most of what we understand about the ET presence comes directly or indirectly right out of your research at the very heart of the mystery.
Well, you know, I just realized too that there is something fundamentally almost contradictory in my professional life over the last 35 years because I began with the difficult and repulsive animal mutilations.
And I can remember when I went to England in 1992.
That somebody there actually said to me, We don't want your investigation of animal mutilations to be mixed up in the beautiful crop formations.
They told me that.
Oh, that's ridiculous.
And I remember having a discussion in 1992 in Wiltshire with somebody on that statement.
I am an investigative reporter, I produce, write, direct, edit.
And report television shows, radio, and so forth.
I move from subject to subject to subject to subject.
The fact that I investigated animal mutilations and I'm now investigating crop formations does not in any way say, from my point of view, that I'm saying that what does the animal mutilations has anything to do with the crop formations.
But if it did, if there was one intelligence that was responsible for both, The mutilations are serving one mission, the crop formations are serving another.
Absolutely.
And that we have to be able to accommodate contradictions and paradoxes and complexities if we are going to actually look straightforwardly at what is happening around us and have some strength for whatever future is upon us.
Quantum Physics Breakthroughs00:03:14
It is the contradictions, it is the paradoxes of everything from animal mutilations to the beautiful crop formations to the confusing and puzzling human abductions to RAF Bentwaters that has everything in it all at once to the increasing number of new science reports about dark matter,
dark energy, parallel universes, the timelines that time can be.
You can go back in time, that is not violating anything in Einsteinian quantum physics.
That you can go forward in time, it is not defying the physics, but if I understand correctly, the amount of energy that is needed to go forward in time is so much greater.
And I'm talking about quantum physics and math that is beyond me, I just can read the summaries.
That going forward in time demands much more energy.
Going backwards in time does not need as much.
So, the idea that time travelers so far are all from the future coming back, I don't know myself.
If anybody listening, anybody anywhere knows of a hard case and where it's supposed to be somebody from the past jumping to the future, I would like to hear about it.
Everything we've been exposed to.
Is from the future coming back to the past?
Yeah, that's an excellent point.
And when you look at the potential for the kind of time travel reality, we're in a whole new paradigm.
Now we're going to come back for just a few parting thoughts as we're coming close to wrapping up here.
Stay with us for more with Linda Moulton Howe.
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And we're back with our closing thoughts.
This is Dark Journalist, and I'm here with Earth Files investigative reporter Linda Moulton Howe.
And I have to say, spending this time exploring your ideas, that your work represents this deeper level of understanding and accepting some of the contradictions on the surface in order to penetrate that deeper truth.
Bright Spots in Space00:07:09
With your latest research, you seem very close to a new breakthrough.
I hope so.
And you know, when I say I hope so, what I am really hoping, six years ago now, I was told by a man who works in an agency in this government who had told me some things that were verifiable before Linda, 2016 is on the timeline.
2016, you can count on it.
By then, we're going to have, we're not alone in the universe, it's going to be out there.
A discussion that it could come through the discovery of microbes on Mars, or now we've got this warm ocean that is on Enceladus, 194 degrees Fahrenheit at the bottom of an ocean that comes up to zero at the top.
Well, there's a lot of things on Earth that live in that kind of warm water.
So it's possible that we're going to find creatures in that water on Enceladus.
And then we've got these two strange bright spots in that crater in Ceres.
And you've done some excellent Earth files reporting on that.
And one of the most interesting new developments this is analysis presented in a European conference just a week or so ago.
When they studied the bright spots on Ceres in infrared, and you've got different frequencies of infrared, one of the bright areas on Ceres comes into darkness that is defined as a colder temperature.
And that black circle in this infrared interpretation would mean that probably is colder than the surrounding region, and that would be ice.
When they go to the two bright spots in the crater and they subject it to the same infrared, nothing shows where the two bright spots are.
What does that mean?
This is just fascinating.
You can go to earthfiles.com and I've got six images that are showing the one that is what they think is ice, and here is where the double spots, and there's nothing.
Well, that is so unusual.
And the images are very compelling.
I guess the obligatory question here would be you know, if they found something really powerful up there, would they even show it to us?
It seems unlikely somehow.
We all deserve to see unedited, not scrambled, not contaminated by policies of denial.
We need to see what that camera is seeing.
And it gets even more interesting because the Dawn spacecraft keeps going, circling down, and by this coming December, It will be at 235 miles above the surface.
That's lower than the International Space Station right now.
So that means that if everything is honest and straightforward and pure science, we have to know, at least by December of 2015, this year, what are those two bright spots in that crater that don't show up in infrared and that Hubble.
10 years ago, Hubble photographed these bright spots.
That's right.
10 years.
And they are hugely brighter than all the rest of the surface.
Even if there are bright spots like this one that showed up in infrared and it could very well be ice, these two bright spots are not like that.
And they've been there for 10 years.
Unbelievable.
If it's a natural phenomenon, What is it?
If it's extraterrestrial technology, what is it?
You can keep going.
We have a genuine dwarf planet mystery.
It's in front of us right now.
And when that guy said 2016, as if there is some way to control the evolution and the release of this in some controlled way with targets along the line.
2016, end of the Barack Obama administration.
The idea that we would have every person on the planet, that's what this means, at the same time iPads, iPhones, computers, television, radio, everything.
We've discovered other life.
That's what I'm saying the headline will be.
It could be in a huge variety of options.
But if in another year we get there, and in our lifetime we will have gone from a planet that for thousands of years has lived as if there's no other life in this universe except humans on this planet, to there's other life.
And if there's other life on Ceres or Enceladus or Mars, Then there must be other life in all these Earth like planets.
Absolutely.
I mean, they're talking about millions of Earth like planets.
Once that ice is broken, then the idea of introducing other humanoid intelligences, it seems to me, becomes much easier.
Sure.
The concern that governments have is.
Is anyone out there really an enemy?
What if there really is no enemy?
That's one playing field.
Well, that would be a really big problem for them.
And if there is one enemy, let's say, right?
One.
Are all the other life forms our ally?
And if we have allies in other life forms and there's one thing that can cause a problem, but we have a lot of help.
Self Activating Software00:09:19
To keep us going.
That's another scenario.
So that's to me, after they get out, we're not alone in the universe, life is everywhere.
How do they introduce what has been interacting with this planet for thousands of years?
That's then the big question.
And all of these high school and college students who are already there, they're just waiting for the blanks to be filled in.
They are the generation that is replacing.
That's why, maybe out of all of this, we had to go through all of these complex difficulties to finally get to a place where,
independent of governments and 1% controllers, humanity by itself finally got to a place where it could not only hear we're not alone in the universe, but be enthusiastic.
About learning that that was true.
Fascinating.
Just incredible thoughts.
Linda, thank you so much.
It's really great to see you.
And I, you know, I didn't think we could top our last interview, but I think you just did.
Well, Daniel, I want to say thank you to you as a decent soul and fellow human being who gives time to sort of.
Unfold outside of the speaking 30 seconds that we get on TV now.
I just can't thank you enough.
Well, Linda, thank you.
It's my pleasure.
And when it comes to the amazing things that you share and all your work, all I want to do is hear more.
Welcome to another one.
Exactly.
Now, if anyone wants to find your latest reports, they're at earthfiles.com along with all of your books and DVD presentations.
They can also subscribe there for real X Files, the kind of mesmerizing material that's available there.
And it's so inexpensive.
You also have a new expanded edition of your classic book, An Alien Harvest, right?
Yes, the new second edition is out.
And I am so happy with how this book came out in its second edition.
It's bigger, has clearer documents, many things.
But I also have done this new DVD.
About Gobekli Tepe, self activating machines, and extraterrestrials.
Sounds intriguing.
It is really close to me in many ways because it was the internal revelations about self activating machines with self activating software that don't need prime intelligence, can be unmanned.
It was like the sun coming up about so many answers to so many puzzles.
And that's why.
I hope that people will find value in the Gobeckley self activating software and extraterrestrials because I think it winds together the past, the ancient past, the present, and really where things are going.
So there is that DVD, and then there are my documentaries, The Strange Harvest and Strange Harvest 1993.
They're in DVDs.
And the other books that I have done, each book is like running some sort of a marathon, and then comes another.
Book.
So after an alien harvest, I did Glimpses of Other Realities, Volume One, and then Volume Two, and took eight years to do those two books.
Amazing information in those books.
And that's right, because when you get feedback from people who have been in military and intelligence and say, no one knows how much fact are in those two books of yours, because they can't say it yet.
But I know how much there really is in those two books.
And then mysterious lights and crop circles grew out of my own experiences and interactions with seeing.
Small balls of light.
I've seen them myself.
I've been with other people.
And what are the mysterious lights?
Are they technologies of a very advanced intelligence that sends them into different planets?
They do work, they upload and download information.
They are not the prime intelligence, but that the mysterious lights all over this planet have been serving a technological upload download for centuries.
It would explain a lot if that is true, and that now we have the concept of self.
Activating technology.
And so, in those four books and these three DVDs that I now have available at the Earth File shop, is this evolution for 35 years.
And each one is a different marathon.
And where we would be in 2017 on this discussion, if in fact we get through.
One of the big press conference moments of all centuries.
We're not alone in this universe.
Here is other life.
That I am looking forward to, I hope.
Well, I can see you doing a new book on that for sure.
Now, I want to say about Mysterious Lights and Crop Circles that I think of all your books, it's the most overlooked in a sense.
It seems that people know your other books better, but Mysterious Lights and Crop Circles is a very revealing book.
And along with all the information in there about the crop formations, there are a lot of personal reflections in it that you don't see as much in the other books.
So I highly recommend that one.
Thank you.
It was written out of my personal journey and interaction in England with those crops.
And so many dramatic things happened.
And it was in the crop formations in England that got me to the Abbey that is in Glastonbury.
And my revelation of going into a museum and finding, as if I were reading some other planet's history, that in 66 AD, the first church on the earth was built in Glastonbury dedicated to Christ and to Mary.
Fascinating.
And that when you read about what has happened at that church area since 66 AD, and you are in a museum that lays it out.
The rest of the world has never seen this.
Wow.
When you begin to find these unexpected other knowledges and other truths in parts of the world that we haven't been exposed to at all, and that the underbelly of so much phenomena always seems to go to the issue of what is the relationship of our soul to the cosmos, our soul to the avatars.
And that comes up over and over again in the crop formations.
Right.
So that's how Mysterious Lights and Crop Circles came from the inside out as a book.
It's almost like your most spiritual book, and I guess now we know why.
That's intriguing stuff.
And since you mentioned Gobekli Tepe before, I guess we know what our next episode is going to be on if you're up for it.
And we could do that since you have this new DVD on it.
And I'm really excited to talk to you about this strange ancient site.
Yes, I do.
Yeah.
Is there so much?
Yeah.
Well, Daniel, thank you again.
You really are special.
Thank you so much.
I really appreciate that.
You know, your great work has influenced me so much.
And it's life changing and powerful in a major way.
So I really thank you for that, and I hope we talk real soon.
All right.
Thank you so much.
Okay, great, Linda.
Thank you.
Bye.
Thank you for joining me for this fascinating interview with investigative reporter Linda Moulton Howe on ET survival, time travel, and World War III.
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