Catherine Austin Fitts exposes "economic fascism," alleging Barack Obama engineered $27 trillion in banker gifts and that the Affordable Care Act re-engineered healthcare for top-down control. She details government surveillance, media suppression of alternative truths, and a "Red Button" revelation where 99% of spiritualists refused to stop narcotics trafficking to protect their IRAs. Rejecting a Federal Reserve governorship worth $39 million, Fitts argues society's complicity in criminal enterprise mirrors Nazi genocide models, urging listeners to seek ethical profit through new technologies rather than relying on mainstream narratives. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, WAV2VEC2_ASR_BASE_960H, sat-12l-sm, script v26.04.01, and large-v3-turbo
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Obama's Top-Down Control00:08:11
Hi, this is Dark Journalist.
Today I have an exciting interview for you with Catherine Austin Fitz, the former Assistant Housing Secretary, financial expert, and publisher of the Solari Report.
Now, Catherine's done some amazing shows with us in the past on topics like the slow burn economy and financial coup d'etat.
Today she will share her deepest analysis of the current economic and political state of affairs, plus her personal experience in the higher levels of government and Wall Street.
Now, centralization of power, data, and financial control all add up to a pernicious formula of a few insiders harvesting the Assets and talents of the rest of us.
Is this a dangerous development?
Well, we're going to find out.
Here we go.
Catherine Alston Fitz, Economic Fascism.
I've spent my whole life watching killers rise.
So, you know, we clearly are dealing with a leadership which is blinded by the beauty of their weapons.
They are doing things because they can.
Here's the question how do you sell fascism?
How do you market fascism?
When Obama became president, you know, both as he was running and became president, He essentially engineered over $27 trillion of gifts to the bankers.
Catherine, welcome back.
It's great to have you here.
Before we get started, we were just talking about the big technical meltdown that happened shortly after our last interview.
And you said something interesting.
You said that this is something that happens to you pretty often, right?
Well, it's funny.
During one of the tensest parts of the litigation with the federal government, I had a wonderful technologist in Silicon Valley who retired as a very high up executive at one of the top companies.
And he started a not for profit that took computers from the companies that, you know, after they were cycled, after they were used up, he'd take the used computers and cycle them to the community, you know, people who didn't have computers.
Anyway, suffice it to say, his whole garage was nothing but computers and computer parts.
And every time my laptop was fried, he'd send me a new one.
And there was one year where the average life expectancy of one of my laptops was 29 days.
Unbelievable.
Yeah, I went through 13 in one year.
Oh, well, that's amazing.
And they would be so fried, you couldn't save them.
You know, it was just, we just use it.
They'd hack it.
I'd throw it out.
It was all with, you know, it was all Linux and very old, clunky things to try and make it.
Right.
So they were about as hack resistant as you could get.
Right.
Wow.
Well, they definitely enjoy that kind of hacking.
But with you, I'm sure they monitor you closely anyway.
I feel like I'm inventing all of their stuff.
Well, they obviously enjoy listening in on you.
They probably like stealing your ideas.
That's my guess.
1998, there was a wonderful woman who worked at a very high level in the CIA.
And, you know, they were pushing George W. Bush for president.
He was governor of Texas.
They were pushing him for president.
And so she sent me an email with a link to a speech he'd given on education.
And she said, Don't you think this is excellent?
And I wrote back and I said, No, it's terrible.
And she said, Well, you know, she got very huffy.
This is all by email.
Well, why?
You know, so she said, Well, if you were in his shoes and you wanted to be the education president, what would you write?
So I wrote this long thing.
I said, Fine, here's what I'd say.
I'd say this, About two weeks later, I opened up the Wall Street Journal or the New York Times.
It was one of the big national papers.
And sure enough, he'd given another speech and there was a whole paragraph.
It was all my stuff and there was a whole paragraph lifted.
And I just came back to me and said, Did I get paid for this?
No.
Yeah.
Well, if I think about it, I have seen you plagiarize many, many times, actually.
Oh, yeah.
No, I do too.
I mean, I've opened, you know, I'll be in an airport.
I was in the airport in Texas once, and I turned to one of the top financial shows, and literally it was my entire script.
It was whole sentences, phrases.
It's all my stuff.
I thought, oh, well.
Well, you know, on the Solaria report, we have a whole bunch of market research firms that come in.
And subscribe.
So I'm assuming they're just collecting and feeding.
Yeah.
And I think, you know, frankly, I think, you know, a lot of the big financial shows do that.
They target and sweep what everybody else is saying and use the best stuff.
Yeah.
So they're just hanging around trying to get this inside info from these informed sources.
And then they try to come out and pass it off as their own, basically, right?
Yeah.
Well, that's how they get the best of the market.
They're filtering.
Yeah.
But we're all filtering.
We're all reading and taking the best of us, right?
That's true, exactly.
Well, one thing I saw, though, was interesting.
It was this establishment economist, Paul Krugman, and he came out and said, You know, our dollar is backed by guns.
And I said, wait, this guy is definitely listening to the Solari report.
Well, you know, it's really funny.
I've been explaining, I think I wrote a blog post in the early 2000s, you know, the military backs up the dollar.
And that, I mean, you know, that's a very common understanding.
I'm sure Krugman understood that 10 years ago.
So, right.
What's interesting is you'll see the official reality as the market share leaves and goes to the websites.
And the internet channel that's telling the truth, you'll see the official reality kind of morph and evolve to try and protect their market share.
So you have a competition between the truth and the official reality.
And the official reality is constantly having to shift to really protect its channel and its market share.
Well, it is interesting, though, because you'll see the guy with the bow tie on CNBC and he's, you know, now he's talking about dollar debasement and central banks.
And I'm like, wait, is that Alex Jones?
What's happening over there?
That's what happened.
Catherine, let's get into a few of the things that are going on.
You know, there are a lot of pundits out there who said that Obamacare was one of the biggest blunders of Obama's presidency.
But you take a different view.
You say this is all part of a centralization plan.
Oh, I don't think it was the blunder of the decade at all.
You know, I think if you're going to control the population, you need to control their health care.
You need to control medical infrastructure.
That's number one.
But number two, if you're going to re engineer medicine, and I think as soon as Obamacare went into effect, the radical re engineering of American healthcare began.
But for that re engineering to occur and the private investment in that re engineering, I think they wanted to see Obamacare happen.
So, you know, Obama was the guy who's going to take the tomatoes.
But I don't think it was an accident whatsoever.
I think the push to get top down control of health care has been going on for a while, and Obama was the one who was able to get it done.
I see.
Because he had some support with the millennials, and they're the ones who are going to have to pay for this eventually.
Is that the idea?
Well, I think he could get it passed.
Here's the question How do you sell fascism?
The Millennial Payoff00:15:37
Yeah.
How do you market fascism?
When Obama became president, you know, both as he was running and became president, he essentially engineered over $27 trillion of gifts to the bankers.
Right.
Now, there is no way that Dick Cheney could have done that.
If Dick Cheney was president, do you think we could have given the banks $27 trillion?
No way.
Yeah, but with Obama.
And it would have been this huge firestorm because everyone would see that this guy was just helping out his wealthy friends.
And there would have been all these investigations and liberal outrage and all that.
Right.
Well, I think a lot of people would have seen it for what it was.
Yeah, right.
But with, you know, you have a young face, you have a African or part African American, you have a stylish face, you have a face that truly seems and feels compassionate.
You know, he's got a lovely family.
You know, it feels so good.
Well, I've heard you say that Obama is this perfect Ninja Turtle arc.
It's really funny.
There was a wonderful anthropologist from Seattle, Jennifer James, who gave a speech in 1996, and one of my partners brought it back from the conference, and it really changed my life.
What she said was that there was a real split in the workforce because the culture of the sort of the older economy, what I would call the 2.0 industrial economy, was a win lose culture.
And the mythological hero of the top guys in that culture was the Lone Ranger.
You know, wears a mask, never shows emotion, rides everywhere, saves everyone.
Yeah.
And his, you know, that person's son or grandson in the workplace coming up in an information technology culture and economy which requires much more collaboration to create value is their mythological hero, the Ninja Turtle.
And if you look at the Ninja Turtles, they eat together, they sleep together, they share everything.
You know, their name for Italian Renaissance artists.
And so it's a very different culture.
And the reason I caught on to it was I was building an investment bank, Hamilton Securities Group, and we were split between I'd hired some of the older folks my age to do real estate and investment banking, but I had brought in a lot of web developers and technologists.
We had a special relationship with MIT, and I would hire information technologists out of MIT.
And literally, it was like two different universes and languages.
You know, one understood in the web world, you had to share information to create things of value, and you could make more money collaborating in real estate.
You know, you basically stole, you know, kill the guy, steal his property, you make money.
You know, it's much more.
It's two very different cultures, and that's part of what you know.
Obama was our first real, truly Ninja Turtle president.
You know, Clinton was kind of a crossover, but Obama was the first Ninja Turtle president.
He tweets, you know, and I think you really needed a Ninja Turtle.
You know, president to say, Oh, don't worry, you know, let's give him 27 trillion dollars.
It'll really make everything better for all of us.
Oh, absolutely.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, it is fascinating the way they picked him up and dropped him in the White House like that, you know, since he really was just a state senator a few years before that.
Right.
And I can't think of anyone really in modern history who had, you know, that kind of trajectory.
It's pretty unusual.
You know, he fit the profile.
You fit the profile.
You know, it's interesting you mentioned Clinton.
I know people stress the point that you worked in the first Bush administration, but you also did plenty of work for the Clinton administration with your Hamilton Securities Group.
So you know that side well, also.
You know, I found myself reading your online book, Dylan Reed and the Aristocracy of Stock Profits.
And there's a section in there on Andrew Cuomo, who's now the governor of New York, of course.
And I wanted to ask you how does it feel now when you see these people who engineered the housing bubble and made moves against you?
And here they are moving into these lofty positions.
Well, here's the thing.
You've read my pieces on what I call the financial coup d'etat.
So, part of the financial coup d'etat was the housing bubble.
If you look at the people who engineered the housing bubble, they're all terribly successful now.
When you engineer a housing bubble as part of a financial coup d'etat and it makes the centralizers lots of money and it's successful, you rise.
Yeah.
That doesn't bother me because, you know, in fact, that's the way the system works.
And I can understand why Andrew Cuomo would do all.
You know, if Andrew Cuomo wants to be governor of New York or president of the United States, you know, those are the things he does.
What always shocks me is how you get millions and millions of people who say, oh, those bastards that have done these horrible things.
And then they proceed to support them.
Do you know what I mean?
Yeah.
Oh, I love, you know, I love so and so.
They're so, you know, I love Obama, you know, and so there's this.
What do you call it?
There's a multiple personality disorder in the culture that I've never been able to fathom.
So, you know, and yet, as an investment person, my attitude is my job for my subscribers or for the, you know, for the people that I represent, you know, whether it's a subscriber, a client, or an investor, you know, my job is to understand the world the way it is and act accordingly in their defense.
Do you know what I mean?
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
I think I've told you the Red Button story, which is very famous.
Yes.
Actually, that story is so interesting.
If you could repeat that whole thing here, that would be great.
I had been asked by a friend to speak to a group called Spiritual Frontiers Foundation.
Right.
And they have a conference once a year where they explore how they can help our society evolve spiritually.
They're very committed to.
A higher spiritual life.
Yeah.
And I had been asked to give a speech called How the Money Works in Organized Crime, which later became a very funny, famous article, How the Money, Narco Dollars for Beginners.
Right.
So I'm in the middle of the speech talking about how the U.S. Congress had had hearings about allegations of narcotics trafficking by the intelligence agencies into South Central LA.
It's called the so called Dark Alliance Allegations.
And At the time, the Department of Justice had told a reporter that I was working with that the U.S. economy launders $500 billion to a trillion a year of all illegal money.
And so I said to this wonderful group of spiritually evolved, committed people, what would happen if we stopped being the global leader in money laundering?
And they said, well, you know, it'd be a problem because that money would not go to the New York Stock Exchange if we stopped.
You know, the money would leave and go to Hong Kong or Zurich.
and we'd have trouble refinancing the government deficit.
So I said, well, let's pretend there's a big red button up here on the lectern.
And if you push that button, you can stop all hard narcotics trafficking in your county, your community, your neighborhood, your state, your country tomorrow, thus offending the people who control not only a half a trillion to a trillion dollars a year of all dirty money, but the accumulated capital thereon.
Who here will push the button?
And out of 100 people dedicated to evolving our society spiritually, only one would push the button.
So I wouldn't let him answer.
So I said to the other 99, why would you not push the button?
And they said, we don't want our IRAs and 401ks to go down in value.
We don't want our mutual funds to decline.
And we don't want our government checks to stop because we don't, you know, if you had trouble financing the government deficit, our government checks would stop or our taxes would go up.
And so I said, so you want the powers to be continue to market drugs to your neighbor's children to keep your taxes low and your 401ks up?
And they said, yes, that's right.
And what was interesting, the epiphany I had that day was everyone was so afraid to face that or talk about that that we couldn't get to the point where we could.
Do what I call, which is turn the red button green.
Right.
Because the right question is not how do we push the red button.
The right question is how do we make money pushing the red button?
How do we turn the red button green?
Because if you can make money pushing the red button, then you can push the red button.
And no one feels safe enough or comfortable enough to talk about that.
And it's a little bit like a body with, you know, when you take methadone.
Methadone or drugs makes your body weaker and weaker and weaker.
So it can't pop.
possibly be profitable.
It's the same with an economy.
The more economy depends on criminal enterprise, the more you're making money at things that make you economically stupid.
Because you're getting good at criminal enterprise, you're getting good at financial fraud, instead of getting good at things that really are useful and have some real economic productivity to them.
So you're making your body politic weaker and weaker the more dependent you get on this money.
So it can't lead to any place good.
So there is a way to turn the red button green, but it starts by being honest with each other.
One of the reasons I wrote the article Beyond Coming Clean Beyond the Fiscal Cliff is we've got to face that.
We've got to look at that if we're going to turn the red button green.
And in that sense, we have all been complicit because we've been letting the leadership draw us in a more and more perverted and criminal way.
And as we've done it, we've made the body politic weaker and weaker and weaker because we're all spending our time doing things that are Making us stupider instead of spending our time making things that make us healthier and stronger.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Well, your story really says that the main problem that we're having as a society is that we are not stepping forward to deal with things as they really are.
We won't look at it.
Right.
It all comes back to the red button problem.
We look for scapegoats.
You know, we want to blame everything on Obama.
But in fact, if you dig down and you dig all the way down to a county by county level or household by household level, All the corruption that we're doing, you know, we're all doing it.
We're all complicit one way or another.
So, you know, part of real change requires us looking in the mirror.
And I think that's the hardest part of the process of getting to understanding how the economy really works is looking in the mirror and saying, you know, I'm the patsy and I'm the bad guy too.
You know, I've been going along with this.
So, right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, you know, Daniel, I've spent my whole life watching.
Killers rise, so this is not new.
Fascinating, and uh, well, what do you think from the killers' point of view?
I know you've known a few of them over the years, the successful ones, a lot of killers.
Uh, well, you've stood against them and survived and come out strong on the other side, so that's impressive.
I think we all have to, you know, I always believed, um, certainly when I was on Wall Street and when I was in Washington.
That you had to work within the system and you had to help the leadership work with the real options presented for them.
So, you know, I see the leaders being criticized for doing lots of things and they're picking the best of a whole series of bad options.
You know, they have to work within the world as it is, they don't have complete control.
So, I find, you know, I feel tremendous empathy.
And that's why I always tell the red button story because.
You know, if you're the CIA, you're trying to keep it together and everybody's depending on you to keep it, you know, to keep the subsidy flowing.
It's not so easy to do, and you're going to have to bang heads to do it because if you don't, you know, somebody could bang your head.
So I think a lot of these issues are a lot trickier, you know, if you're in the bureaucracy trying to deal day to day.
So I've tried to try and get the help everyone in the ecosystem see everyone else in the ecosystem.
But the reality is we don't yet.
We don't have a good picture of how things are working and how to make real change.
And I think that's why, you know, I keep coming back again and again to transparency.
How do we flush?
How do we make the picture?
How do we get the picture transparent enough?
Because, in fact, I think with enough transparency, you can start to get to real solutions.
Does that make any sense?
Yeah, I can appreciate that.
I think it's great that you're trying to show some compassion for these people at the top.
And, you know, it is easy to just project a lot of anger onto them.
But I would ask you, what kind of ethics do you think they possess?
Because, I mean, they're doing these destructive things.
And perhaps they believe it's the only way that they can win in this system, you know, is to behave in this underhanded manner.
But what's going on inside of them?
Because are they thinking it's a trade off?
You know, I'll do good work eventually?
Or not?
I don't know.
What happened to me was I believed that it was possible to build a model with real change.
And when I got to a certain point, I hit a crossroads without going into the details of what happened where I said, I can't go along with genocide.
I believe you have to work in the system, but there has to be a line in the sand.
I'm not going to go along with genocide.
And if you look at the decisions that were made between 94 and 96, what we were engaging in, particularly with the war on drugs enforcement model and prisons, was genocide.
And it was, you know, it was basically the Nazi model moved free range.
And that's when I said, you know, I draw a line in the sand here.
Refusing Genocide00:07:10
I'm not going to do this.
I didn't come to this planet to get along.
I didn't come to this planet to make money.
I came to this planet for a purpose.
If I can't serve the purpose, then I'll just bring transparency and wait until I can serve my purpose, whatever.
But I'm not.
You know, I'm not interested in taking the pathway that Andrew Cuomo took.
Now, I can't, you know, I can't conjecture all the different things, but from what I've seen, you know, there are a lot of different fact patterns, but I think a lot of people who continue to stay in the system and, you know, do their best to rise think there's no choice.
You know, that that's, if you've ever seen, have you ever seen the movie They Live?
Oh, yeah.
That's one of my favorite movies for sure.
And I do think the movie was pretty advanced as far as the whole theme of the thing was concerned, considering it came out in the late 80s.
Right.
So there's a scene where the guy says, Hey, buddy, go along with them.
They treat you nice.
You make money.
You get presents.
But he's basically saying, Adapt.
They'll take good care of you.
What's the problem?
So I think there's this feeling of, well, this is the effective strategy.
I also think that you would be very surprised how many people really don't see the big picture.
One of the reasons I stopped working.
And just focused on dealing with engaging in litigation for Hamilton Securities, I said, look, I didn't, you know, my map of how things were working was not complete, you know, because I would never have gotten in this kind of litigation if I'd seen it coming.
You know, I did not see it coming.
So I need a better map.
Now, part of it was, of course, the financial coup d'etat was on and change was upon us.
But I think I was amazed as I tried to bring transparency to what was happening, how many people literally in the boardrooms of America.
You know, they've been so busy going up in their little ladder that they really don't see the system whole.
Now, what's funny is every time I get into a boardroom kind of situation, what's amazing is how quickly I can educate them.
And I can't tell you how much effort is spent on making sure I don't get into the room.
You know, the people at the time really depend on sort of 20% of the people to keep the trains running on time.
And it's amazing how many people have been kept in the dark.
You know, people that you think have real power and know what's going on, you'd be amazed how little they really know.
Yeah.
So actually, they're just on a lower tier of power from the people that are ultimately controlling them.
Right.
I'll never forget during the litigation, I would get these phone calls from people that I used to think of as very powerful and important, you know, but I, you know, I call it the touch.
They'd get a call and, you know, I could see it.
It was probably the executive committee and the council on farm relations, but they'd get the call and they'd call me and they'd say, You know, it's very important to have lunch.
So I'd get out to lunch, and clearly they had been deputized to persuade me to do something, you know, go to the right.
And I would listen to them, and what they were proposing made absolutely no sense.
It made no sense for the top guys, it made no sense for me.
But, you know, when somebody was busy, you just said, look, you know, here's, they had a notion of what was going on and what to do.
And it would take me half the lunch to talk the person out of their trance, you know, because they hadn't really.
Asked any questions.
They hadn't made sure that what they were saying was make sense.
They just assume if they got that call that, of course, this was a good thing to do.
So it took me half the lunch to persuade them that my going the right made absolutely no sense.
And the more I did, the more scared they got because they realized, oh, you know, I don't understand what I'm a part of and maybe it's not so nice.
Yeah.
And you see the fear come over their face and what you realize is this person has no power whatsoever.
None.
You know, and they're just delighted to get the nod to be asked to do this little errand.
Do you know what I mean?
And now they're thinking about they're going to get in trouble because they're not going to get their errand done.
You know what I mean?
Oh, no.
Wow, yeah.
While they're like tools in the system who think they can wield a lot of power, but when it comes down to a real situation, they start to see that they're just a puppet.
But you've mentioned the Council on Foreign Relations before and someone to try to get you to join it at one point.
And when you refused, they had some genuine concern for you.
And so it turns out that that was well founded in a way.
I didn't refuse.
It was a wonderful person.
And they had this glossy brochure.
And part of it was they wanted me to ask Nick Brady to sponsor me, which I didn't want to do.
Because Nick had asked me, at the end of the administration, to come and be a governor of the Federal Reserve, and I had declined.
So I figured I was on his wrong side.
And the last thing I wanted to do was go ask him to sponsor me for the Council on Foreign Relations.
But I didn't want to tell the guy that.
But the other thing is, I didn't.
If you, you know, we all are called to a purpose, Daniel, and my purpose led in a different direction.
And I just felt like, you know, this was going to be a lot of time and a lot of effort to try and get along in a world that I was just increasingly uncomfortable with.
And I just didn't want to do it.
And, you know, if I had gone back to New York to work in the financial institutions, it'd be one thing.
But if you're starting your own company, you know, starting your own company is a 100 hour week affair.
And so, um, You know, and I was much more in the deal doing trenches, which is where I wanted to be.
And so it was just, it was a direction I just didn't feel I could do a good job at following.
And it was really funny because when I said, you know, I just don't think this is a good idea, I had the funniest feeling that, you know, that my locker reserved for me in the underground bunker was lost.
Because he looked at me and he said, you don't understand.
If you do this, you're out forever.
Uh huh.
And, you know, and literally I had this feeling of, oh, you know, I won't get a place in the underground bunker and so I won't make it.
And I literally, I almost said, you know, let me take my chances out in the wilderness with the hoi polloi.
You know, I just don't want to get stuck in the bunker with everybody.
But it was funny because if you look at the process by which I ended up in the wilderness, it was a whole series of sort of serendipity events.
On one hand, I would think of them as serendipity.
On the other hand, looking back on them, I just feel like there was an angel protecting me.
Risking the Wilderness00:04:17
Oh, right.
Yeah.
So I do, you know, I do think I belong where I am.
And if you look, I can't, it's really funny.
I have a wonderful one of my advisors who is just wonderful.
I called her one day and I said, you know, I sat down and I did a calculation that coming out of Wall Street, if I had just used my money and invested in the things that I thought were going to do the best financially, I would now be worth $39 million.
Instead, I put them into serving my purpose and trying to create what I thought was lasting value.
And so my net worth is nothing to write home about.
And if I'd done this other thing, I'd be worth $39 million.
And she said, Yes, but you'd be dead.
I said, What do you mean?
I'd be dead.
And she said, She then proceeded to explain that if you look at where I would have sought my health care and what would have happened to my Spiritual and sort of physical, emotional state, I would in fact be dead.
And I said, You know, you're right.
Yeah, right.
I think, you know, it gets back to purpose.
I don't know what Andrew Cuomo's purpose is, but if I tried to live his purpose, I, you know, I would be dead at the age of 40.
I would have had a heart attack and died.
Well, somehow you had to experience that world, get a real taste for it, to be able to explain it to these other people who would never touch it or have a chance to understand it.
Well, you know, I.
I have to tell you, I love living in that world.
I loved Wall Street.
I loved my job.
I loved most of the people I worked with.
You know, I loved it.
And there was much in that world that's very, very good.
Sure.
You know, it's really funny.
All the corruption you find in that world, you find, you know, I live in a tiny farming community.
It's all here, Daniel.
Right.
So it's just inherently in people.
You're not going to get away from it.
Well, here's the question where does it really come from?
That's the question because, you know, a lot of the risk that we see is coming from the fact that some people have very powerful technology that other people don't have.
And, you know, absolute power corrupts absolutely.
You know, Leonard Cohen has this wonderful song.
One of the lines is, We're blinded by the beauty of our weapons.
So, you know, we clearly are dealing with a leadership which is blinded by the beauty of their weapons.
They are doing things because they can.
Yeah.
So, right.
Now, if you gave those weapons to some of my neighbors, it's frightening.
You know, what would happen is much worse.
Yeah, right.
Catherine, the last time we spoke, you were thinking about work on a new book, and I'm curious what your plans are now on that.
Right.
Well, here's the thing the clients, the investors, and the subscribers come first.
Sure.
So, you know, I write and then I stop and I write.
So, yeah, it's coming.
Well, I know we're all looking forward to that.
I enjoy your articles immensely.
What we're also doing right after that, we'll publish the, we've got a selected works where we're going to.
Take all my articles and blog posts and put them in a two part series.
And so that'll come, the first book will come, and then the selected works will come.
So it's coming.
Oh, great idea.
Well, I did get a comment on our previous interview.
Someone sent me an email.
It was pretty interesting, actually.
They wrote, You know, I don't understand how there hasn't been a biopic about this woman yet.
It makes a lot of sense because, you know, I published a book online.
And just quickly, that's Dylan Reed and the Aristocracy of Stock Profits.
Every time I've started to publish it, I've gotten threats.
And they're threats, not, you know, I'm not, it's my, if I have a weak spot, threaten somebody I love, and then I'll immediately, because I'm very protective of the people I care about.
And so each time I have, you know, it's online, anybody can get it, but I've stopped proceeding to publish it because I didn't want to put anybody at risk.
Target of Whistleblower00:05:49
And I think in my case, there are a lot of hurt feelings.
From what happened.
And to a certain extent, we just need time to go by to kind of heal those wounds.
And what I'm not looking to do is engage people in real solutions.
What I'm not looking to do is to create personal criminal liability or serious political liability for any individual.
Because as far as I'm concerned, we're dealing with a system, we're not just dealing with.
You know, somebody, if you look at the guys who did what they did to me, I'm not saying it was right.
I'm not saying I condone it, but I understand why they did what they did.
It's all part of a system, you know, and we should have a system where stuff like that can happen.
So I'm not out to bring transparency, yes, but I'm not out to start a war.
No, not at all.
Well, you know, your work shows that.
There's no vendetta anywhere within it.
And that's the interesting thing about it.
Frankly, you'd think you'd have a little more venom for the people who acted against you.
You know, in my opinion, I think you've been very gracious about the whole thing.
One thing that does strike me is that you must be a very interesting enigma to these inside guys, since coming from their world, you know, they're accustomed to wiping their enemies out or destroying their reputations.
And with you, since they couldn't really eliminate you, I think they're surprised.
If they wanted to eliminate me, they could eliminate me like that.
True.
I mean, they have the ability to kill with impunity.
Right.
They could kill me anytime.
Sure.
Oh, yeah, I understand that.
I just mean that in a sense, the way they traditionally dispose of an opponent, let's say, in a plane crash or even this kind of litigation we're talking about, putting someone in jail, getting rid of them.
Gary Webb, the author of Dark Alliance, comes to mind the way he was publicly destroyed.
Right, but remember, here's the funny kind of situation.
I was, I don't want to exaggerate my importance, I was one of them at a very lower level.
You know, very lower level.
And I did not, you know, I was not disloyal.
I was loyal.
I got thrown out.
Do you know what I mean?
So I'm like Jonah.
I got spat out of the whale.
I didn't spit me out of the whale.
They spat me out of the whale.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, right.
The only thing I did is, you know, I was very clear.
Well, I won't bore you with the details, but something happened that made me realize.
I have to fight.
They've left me no choice.
That wasn't my decision.
That was their, you know, they kind of put me in a corner.
It wasn't my decision to throw me out.
It wasn't my decision to put me in a corner.
Once I got put in the corner, I said, okay, you know, now I'm going to fight.
So, the funny kind of thing is, it was not, you know, I was never a whistleblower.
I was the target of a whistleblower.
Do you know what I mean?
Okay.
So, it's kind of a funny thing because I was not disloyal.
I was never disloyal that I know of.
So, yeah, yeah, that's an intriguing point, actually.
Very interesting.
Although I would say it seems like they were using the same kind of tactics against you as they used on these other people who were destroyed.
Well, it was really funny.
I was talking to in the 90s, I was talking to this wonderful guy who'd been very involved in covert operations.
And we were making a list at the time of all the different dirty tricks and techniques that had been used against us.
In fact, it's up on the web.
It's the SWOT list.
And one of my attorneys became very expert in all the.
I mean, we should write a manual on how to deal with all these dirty tricks.
But anyway, so we're making a list.
And I turned to the guy and I said, you know, where, you know, have you seen all of these used against somebody before?
And he looked at me and laughed and he said, yes, but you're the only white person.
Oh, right.
Well, we know they target the minority community.
Now, actually, I've had cases where there were plenty of sort of senior executives where they used them all.
But.
I think we've seen these techniques leave a limited number of spaces and start to go much more broadly.
It's all part of the covert operations going much more broadly.
But I don't know, it's a funny kind of circumstance because when I, and I've told this story many times, when I was presented with them putting me in a corner and I decided to fight, I didn't, you know, Daniel.
I didn't know if I had the wherewithal to do it.
I knew I had the money and I knew I had the training to succeed.
Because in situations like that, everyone will tell you, you can't possibly succeed.
It's hopeless.
You know, in black budget, somebody once said, you know, Fitz is the only one.
I've watched 25 cases of black budget litigation.
Fitz is the only one who ever won.
Yeah.
And so, you know, it's supposed to be impossible.
And I said, I have the money and I have the training and I'm prepared to spend the rest of my life.
What I don't know.
Spiritual Warfare Tactics00:04:22
Is if I can win and still have the capacity to love.
Because to win, I have to face the fact that the people I most cared about in the world are the people who are killing me or trying to kill me or trying to destroy me.
And, you know, how do you face that and not lose your love?
How do you do that?
And so I decided at that point that I would organize the entire process around not winning, but making sure when I won that I would have the capacity to love.
And, you know, my poor attorneys, because they could never quite understand the logic of why I was doing it and how I was doing it.
But I think, you know, so to me, I got very serious training in spiritual warfare.
And that has made all the difference because when you look at the world through the prism of spiritual warfare, you look at things very, very differently.
And it's just a whole different logic.
And because I do believe the most powerful forces on the planet Earth are spiritual, and that's kind of where I live now.
When somebody says these guys are going to kill you, I'm like, no problem, I'm out of here.
My personal rapture, thank you.
Yeah, right.
So I kind of look at things very, very differently.
And I have to tell you, we all have a purpose.
I'm living my purpose.
This is my dream.
I would no more want to be the governor of New York right now.
I can't fathom.
To me, that's one of the most painful jobs.
You know, the only job more painful would be president of the United States.
I can't fathom why anybody would want to do it.
You know.
Oh, yeah.
You know, it's what the hero in one of my favorite movies said.
He said, What we do echoes in eternity.
If you really believe that, you don't want to be president of the United States right now.
Oh, yeah.
Absolutely.
Right.
Well, you mentioned the movies.
Can we get into your latest movie finds?
Oh, sure.
I mean, I love it.
I know.
You've always given me the good movies like Enemy of the State.
Uh huh.
Yeah.
My training film.
That's right.
Exactly.
That's the one.
That's a great one.
Yeah.
And that's a terrible thing that happened to Tony Scott.
Tony Scott was my.
Tony and Ridley Scott were my two favorite directors.
You know, I have no idea what happened.
It, you know, I just.
Well, they said that he leapt.
From a bridge to his death in LA, but the reasons they provided were pretty odd.
The whole thing didn't add up.
I think it was very mysterious circumstances.
Now, apparently, he was working on a movie about the war on drugs, so it could have been something sensitive.
I don't know.
But, you know, we have to understand we're living in a world where, you know, here's a man who's made a fortune for Hollywood, he's unbelievably accomplished, very powerful, very capable.
You know, could he have been killed?
Yeah, he could have been killed.
We don't know.
Yeah, yeah, it's a tough loss.
Talented guy.
Okay, so what's your latest movie find?
Oh, that's really tough.
I've been watching a lot of movies that I don't love.
The new House of Cards, that is the one I'm very much looking forward to because I think that Netflix and Kevin Spacey and that whole team did an incredible job of helping you understand Washington and Wall Street and the red button problem.
I love Shakespeare.
I've seen every one of Shakespeare's, I've read every one, I've seen almost all of them performed.
It is a really Shakespearean production, extraordinary production.
And it really gets into a lot of the issues that you and I have talked about.
Okay.
If you go to the Solari Report, you know, we have a list of all the movies we've done from the beginning.
Yes, that's an incredible list of movies.
Look, we don't have enough time to read all the books.
We have to go to the movies.
And, you know, and what's amazing is Hollywood tells us everything.
You know, they really have.
They've told us everything.
We just need to know.
Profitable World Peace00:07:39
You know, I always tell people look, if you want to understand the American economy as of 1979, just shut the door, turn off the phones.
Get whatever it is, popcorn, beer, whatever you want, and watch Godfather One, Godfather Two, Godfather Three right in a row.
And that is your primer on the American economy as of 1979.
Yeah, it's all there.
Catherine, I know that you're big on being ethical while being successful.
As we close out here today, can you sort of round the concept out so that people have a feel for how to do that?
If we're going to get to a financially sustainable global model, Then we all have to figure out, each in our own way, how can I make money creating that model?
Do you see what I mean?
Yeah.
Because then it's sustainable.
So, how can we go to work, save the planet Monday through Friday, and then go to the beach for the weekend?
Yeah, right.
No, really.
That's, you know, that if you look at the design challenge that Soleri was created to deal with, that's the design challenge.
Okay.
How can we make a real solution a for profit solution?
Now, you know, There are a lot of people who are going to say, oh, that's evil, cruel, you know, she's so, you know, greedy and whatever.
You know, I don't necessarily, you know, it doesn't have to be money, it can be time.
But to get to sustainability, we need an economic model that can sustain us all and give us energy collectively together that's good for the planet.
So let me close with I'll tell you one great story.
I had a great Bible class teacher in the 90s.
Absolutely brilliant woman.
She's a paralegal in Washington.
And she asked me, What is the Solary model?
She said, Can you explain the Solary model?
So I explained it.
She looked at me and she said, You're making it too complicated.
It's in Leviticus.
It says we have to take care of ourselves, we have to take care of each other, and we have to take care of the land.
That's it.
Yes, simple.
Right.
So the question is without waiting for government or without waiting for the leadership, how can we just do it?
How do we just.
Convert the model to something that can really work, you know, given everything we've been talking about, about what's going on.
And so I don't think any of us have the answer to that.
I think we're just seeking it.
And each one of us has to, you know, find a way to accept responsibility for world peace on a for profit basis.
Right, right.
Right.
Well, it's an excellent point you're making here that you can be ethical and successful at the same time and they're not mutually exclusive and that there isn't anything inherently noble in not being prosperous.
For example, oh, I would say that there is something wrong with not being prosperous because we do have a responsibility to take care of ourselves, our families, or you know, those around us.
You know, that requires you know, putting something away in the storehouse, yeah.
So, you know, I think we have an obligation to take care of our economic existence, right?
So, well, when you mentioned the nonprofit thing, I started thinking immediately of that mentality, you know, and how it works kind of like.
Well, they're doing that project for the money, or that movement is just out to make a buck, etc., etc., you know.
When in fact, a group or an organization can be making a tremendous profit and be doing a terrific amount of good at the same time.
Well, you're talking about something that's financially sustainable.
In other words, if it can generate a profit, then it's financially sustainable.
Now, not everything can generate a profit.
So, you know, What happens is the activities that can generate a profit, you take a piece and you say, okay, well, we're going to use that to pay for the schools, or, you know, that's what taxes and not for profits for, and we absolutely need them.
But the power of new technology is it can make many things done on a financially sustainable basis.
So we can do a whole lot of things, you know, we can do a whole lot of things on a for profit basis that we couldn't 10 or 20 years ago, because the new technology gives you the ability to so generate high learning metabolisms and Lower expenses.
So it's all there to be done.
Yeah, that's a terrific point, actually.
Yeah.
And I think with a lot of startups, you definitely are seeing that.
There's a whole new group of companies that are coming out that just couldn't have existed 10 years ago because they wouldn't have the startup capital.
Right, right.
The costs have come way, way, way down.
They keep coming down.
So I think everything we need to do needs to be financially and environmentally sustainable.
So I, for one, don't think it's wrong to want to be financially sustainable.
I think that's, you know, when I finished, when I closed down the litigation, I immediately started for profit companies.
But for profit companies where I was working for individual people, you know, all my life I'd worked for corporations or governments.
And I said, I have to work for people because, you know, it's, there is too much non alignment right now between big corporations and big governments and people.
So I have to work for people because it's the only way to have integrity.
But it has to be economically sustainable because if it's not economically sustainable, then I'm going to be dependent one way or another on government or big money, you know.
Oh, yeah.
You know, so we've got to find ways of doing this that are financially sustainable because then we can do them.
Right.
And then you can really unleash that creativity without all the financial pressures.
That's an excellent point.
Right.
Well, I want to say here that I think many of these new tools are in the Solari report.
The information is intellectually stimulating, but infinitely practical also and cutting edge at the same time.
Right.
I think the Solaria Report can help people build a good map and also get a little bit of encouragement and find some.
You know, we do lunches as I go around the country, find some like minded people.
You know, you get the sense you're not alone.
And, you know, so many people come into the Solaria Report and say, Oh, you know, I was beginning to, you know, they're all in a state of.
You know, the world was not making any sense to me.
And so you get this wonderful process they go through where they say, Oh, I can't understand my world.
Now, there's a grieving process because the more they understand, they're like, oh, no, you know, it's not what it was.
So, on one hand, they're excited that they can understand their world.
On the other hand, you know, it's very depressing because the world is not as they thought it was.
But over time, they start to get power.
You know, they start to say, oh, I can see things and I can navigate and I can know that this is, you know, because so many people have their time wasted.
And that's what I love.
I love.
Seeing people suddenly say, you know, that thing in the last presidential election, I spent 100 hours watching the media.
And now, this presidential election, I spent zero hours and I spent that time, you know, building my business or something.
So you see people being able to not get, you know, they're developing their immune system.
Building Immune Systems00:00:33
They're much harder to trick.
Oh, yeah.
Excellent point.
If they're not settled down with GMOs and entrainment technology and chemtrails, they have a much better shot at success, right?
Right.
Thanks, Catherine.
Thank you.
Thank you for joining me for this fascinating overview on economic fascism with Catherine Austin Fitz.
You can find more special reports and interviews at darkjournalists.com.