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Dec. 10, 2025 - The David Knight Show
52:33
Dr. Shiva: The Middle Must Rise
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All right, and joining us now is Dr. Shiva and Dr. Shiva Ayadure, and he is running for Senate as an independent, right?
That's a good thing.
The website is ShivaForsenate.com.
Thank you for joining us, Dr. Shiva.
Good.
How are you doing, David?
Doing good.
Tell us a little bit about what you're doing here, what your goals are.
Yeah, so I think, David, people know that fundamentally those in power give people essentially only two options on their battleground and how to participate in politics, right?
These are the two promoted options, which is you run for office in either the Republican or Democratic Party, take a left or right position, or you file lawsuits.
You become a lawyer.
So if you think about it, if you wake up at some point in your life and you say, you know, I see injustice in the world and I want to change it, they give you these two vehicles, legalism, become a lawyer, file lawsuits, or electoralism, right?
Run for office.
Now, the reality is if you just take those two positions, you invariably get either demoralized or you get co-opted or you compromise.
And they know this because the judges, the courts, the legal systems, the electoral process is all controlled by what I call the swarm.
And if people want to understand what that is, they can go to shattertheswarm.com.
And I describe that in a very scientific way, the structures of power.
Okay.
But what they do not teach, David, anymore, or they rarely even talk about it, is that actual changes come through bottoms-up political movements of everyday people organizing locally and building self-organizing systems, mass movements.
That's right.
And this is the fundamental way any changes come.
So that's at the core.
So if you have a movement at the core, and then you go participate in the electoralism or the legalism process as a vehicle for a, at minimum, building the movement, and a potential you may actually win some legal cases and participate much more robustly in the electoral process.
So a priori, you have to have a movement.
Without that, you're going to get compromised.
Who was the I think it's somebody anthropologist.
I can't remember the name said something like, you know, small, dedicated group of people is the only thing that's ever changed.
Well, I'm paraphrasing.
Maybe you know that quote.
Well, yeah, it's a dedicated group of people who have, in any field, politics, science, medicine, who have really taken the time to apply the scientific method to understand how nature operates.
And then with that understanding, then you go do innovation, then you bring something to humanity.
So example, since the time immemorial, people thought human beings could not fly, right?
Then you had people understand Bernoulli's principle.
And then you had the creation of airplanes, which came from that understanding.
Or people never thought we would have lights.
You know, we'd always live in darkness.
You had Maxwell's laws, these principles.
Then people created all these gadgets that, you know, we have light.
We don't have darkness.
So when it comes to politics, there's been a view that there will always be the oligarchs and the rest of us have to suffer, right?
There'll always be the 0.01%.
And just like there will be darkness, only the birds can fly, you know, just deal with it.
Okay?
And then as a part of that, you were just talking earlier about Christian, you know, the fake Christians.
In every religion, be it Hinduism, Islam, Christianity, the corrupt owners of these religions take these religions and they created political ideologies to support the suppression of the masses of people by the few.
In Hinduism, they called it karma, the Brahmins, right?
Christian evangelism now supports another political ideology called Zionism, right?
Nazism.
But the notion of rationalizing that there's no way out of this, that you simply have to accept the way things are.
And if you do want to change it, run for politics, raise money, be Republican or Democrat.
You're going to have to compromise.
Or become a lawyer where you're doing deal making.
You never really present in court anymore.
So we have sort of shattered both of those, David.
And it's been a long arc of a lot of hard work, you know, my personal journey.
But also, we've built a global movement.
And it's taken a lot of hard work.
It's something that should have been done several generations ago.
But those in power brainwash people to think Bernie Sanders was going to take care of it.
Or Donald Trump was going to take care of it on the right.
That's right.
Or Tucker Carlson, who griffs all day long, who's a CIA agent.
Or Nick Fuentes.
Two feds, by the way, having interviews with each other saying they're not feds.
The biggest PSYOP.
So quite fascinating.
So everything they do, and I want people to really, if there's one thing you get from this conversation that I want to share, is that everything that the swarm does, the elites do, is to disempower you from even the thought, an iota of the thought, that we must build bottoms-up movements.
That's right.
That's it.
And if you understand that, you will understand what we're doing, what my life has been about, what our movement's about.
You know, our movement is truth, freedom, health.
You can go to truthfromhealth.com.
And it's, we educate people on history.
We educate people on engineering system science.
So just like Bernoulli's principle or Maxwell's laws, I've uncovered these natural laws, David, that come from engineering science that show the dynamics of nine principles, how every system in the universe operates.
And the cool thing is I can teach this to anyone.
You don't have to go to MIT.
But with that understanding, you get this very deep view of the dynamics of all systems.
And you can apply it to political systems.
So truth, freedom, health, there's no and there or dashes or emphasizing one or the other.
They are three principles.
The movement of information and matter and energy freely.
That's freedom.
The conversion of ideas to find what is real.
That's truth.
The conversion process.
And the vessel, the structural process which contains truth and freedom, that's your health, economic health, your physical health, etc.
Now, the principles of movement, conversion, and structure appear in everything.
I could do a whole lecture.
I don't want to bore you guys on that.
But we have founded a movement on scientific principles.
So you can't just do science.
You can't just be an activist fighting for freedom.
You can't just take care of your health.
You have to do all of it.
So you have seen during COVID, you had all these yoga people and wellness people who talked about health, but they were all supporting masks and getting vaccinated.
Complete dysfunction.
Then you have people who talked about freedom.
But the same people who talked about freedom were supporting lockdowns.
You see?
And those people who talked about science, truth, were making claims that the only way to get out of this was you had to take the mRNA vaccine and you had to put people on respirators.
I was the only first one, the early one, who said, gave a protocol as a scientist that the focus is the immune system.
So when you take the systems approach, you see things as they are.
This is why our movement and my work was always at the forefront.
In 2020, we were the first ones to call out.
you know, COVID.
We were the first ones to expose the depths of election integrity.
You know, it was like PhD level stuff we did.
And we were the first ones in our historic lawsuit to expose the fact that government has an unholy alliance in social media companies.
We won our preliminary injunction, our lawsuit, we exposed the hypocrisy of people like Elon Musk, where government ends and where Elon Musk begins, nobody knows.
So our movement has grown now because we have leaders all over the world.
We ran in 2017, 18, and we had a great meme, if you remember.
I may have it up here, which says, only the real Indian can defeat the fake Indian.
And it was a picture of me and Elizabeth Warren.
Even though there's only seven or 10 of us, we ended up getting about 150,000 votes in Massachusetts.
And we were the ones who forced Elizabeth Warren to take the DNA test.
Not Trump, not Donald Trump Jr., but it was, we had these signs, David, that went viral.
We had magnet signs.
I think thousands of them.
I think I can show you a picture of them, if it's okay.
Sure.
Just to remind people of sort of the, you know, there is a creativity to politics, and it's really an opportunity where real art can thrive, you know?
You know, where, so if I can share my screen, I think I can.
I think I need to send a request.
But anyway, the hatred against Elizabeth Warren was not a hatred against her individually, David.
It was the fact that she represented a fake Indian.
All these fake politicians who say one thing and do another.
In Elizabeth Warren's case, it was very much more direct because she said she was a Native American and was not.
And because of that, she got jobs, a cozy tenured professorship at Harvard.
And mind you, a professor at Harvard is like the Brahmin of ancient India.
They're the ones who control ideas.
They make $3 to $5 million a year.
They get the best health care.
They get free gym memberships.
Their kids get to go to school for free.
And so it's quite hypocritical.
But our slogan with my picture and with Elizabeth Warren in a headdress, by the way, you could put Donald Trump in the same headdress.
You could put Elon Musk in a same headdress, Bernie Sanders.
But at the depth of the subconscious, we were hitting something deep that these people don't work.
That's right.
And you know, when she took that test, that really did hit home.
I remember Babylon B had a joke about it.
They said, well, Hillary Clinton did a test, and she found out she had more lizard, alien lizard DNA than Elizabeth Warren did.
I repeated that joke, and because of that, I had the Daily Beast tried to get me thrown off of Twitter because they repeated the joke about that.
They absolutely are humorless.
It's funny how humorless they are.
When these came out, David, they tried to tell me to take the signs off my bus.
It went into a federal lawsuit and I ended up winning it.
Okay, the city of Cambridge.
But the reason I bring this up, so that was 2017 and 18.
That was our first foray into electoral politics.
You know, I spent 40 years of my life building movements.
But the reason we decided to do that was we obviously knew that we had a very low chance of winning because the Democrats and Republicans controlled it.
We injected ourselves, and it was a very successful work because we forced her to take the DNA test.
We got on all these social media and platforms, but we built this broad understanding, whether people knew it or not, about the hypocrisy of all these guys.
So that was the first phase.
Phase two was we ran in 2020 as a Republican.
Because everyone said, oh, you were against Pocahontas.
Why don't you run as a Republican?
Because they thought I must be a Republican.
So we did.
We gave the Republican Party in Massachusetts an opportunity to have someone like me, four degrees from MIT, accomplish seven companies who came from bottom, built myself up.
But the establishment Republican Party in Massachusetts, which always works with the Democrats, had no interest in supporting me.
That's right.
Nonetheless, we raised close to $2 million in 2020, all $1, $5, $20 predominantly donations.
And we had 3,000 volunteers.
We had 25,000 lawn signs up, 10,000 bumper stickers.
It was quite extraordinary.
Every part of Massachusetts, you could not leave Massachusetts without seeing a Dr. Shiva billboard on the major highways, etc.
You know, even here in Tennessee, when you ran for president, there were Shiva signs around here.
We saw quite a few of them.
Exactly.
So that shows, David, not only the strength of people's affection towards our ideas, but the fact that we have people on the ground all over the country.
That's right.
That matter now all over the world.
That's right.
And I like that, what you've done to empower people and to get them to understand that it really is from the bottom up.
And, you know, Trump understands that, and the establishment understands that.
It's one of the reasons why Trump is so adamant that they're going to shut down any state or local regulation of AI.
It's only going to be one rule to rule us all, right?
And it's going to come from him.
And it's going to come from Washington.
They're very afraid that when people see a problem and they do see a problem, you know, they think most people don't buy into the climate change thing, but they do buy into the changes that AI could bring upon us.
And they don't like it.
They don't like the police-state surveillance.
Trump does.
And so he wants to shut that down, anybody pushing back against it, because that's where the real power is.
The real power is from the bottom up.
Yeah, and so if you look at the movements of the late 1800s, early 1900s in the United States, there were these very bottoms-up organic workers' movements, which they try to relabel as Red Scare Communist.
You see?
So that's what McCarthyism did, right?
These weren't movements controlled by Russia.
They were organic American working-class movements.
And they're the reason America actually did become great during 1970 to, I'm sorry, 1900s to 1970.
As GDP grew, everyone's wages grew because the elites were afraid that working class Americans would take to the streets.
In fact, during that period, David, there were 11,000 strikes, close to 200 million people.
Ordinary people wouldn't take BS, right?
They would organize.
And these were organic movements.
We need to reclaim that.
We've got to reclaim that because they're going to do it to us.
The wealth transfer is going on now.
It's incredible.
So the right-wing McCarthyites branded those movements as communist, hijacked the fact that four American workers were hanged in the 1800s fighting for the eight-hour workday.
And that's why the international working class labeled that May Day.
It wasn't a communist holiday.
So they essentially created this false narrative.
So between 1950 to 70, the Democrats like Bernie Sanders and other left trade union top-down people took over the unions.
And Wall Street was given to the right-wing.
So by 1970, there is really no more fight anymore.
They destroyed these bottoms-up workers' movements.
And between 1970 till today, if you read the RAND report that came out a couple years ago, as GDP has grown, the wages of the first and second interim quartile of hard-working Americans has gone down.
And if you add it all up, if you do the calculus on it, between 1970 till today, it adds up to $47 trillion of wealth has moved to Trump and Jared Kushner and Elon Musk, et cetera.
But here's the interesting thing, David.
The left will do half truths against the right, and the right will do half truths against the left.
That's right.
Or they'll say, what about the fact that these guys did what you're accusing me of doing, you know, and so I get a pass to do it now.
They set precedents for each other, right?
It's like, but what about him?
He did this crime, so I get to do the same crime, you know?
Right.
So they have, and so anything that they do that seems truthful is not truthful.
It's basically to split the middle, which the middle works, which means the middle-class working people actually work.
Bernie Sanders has never worked.
Donald Trump has never really worked.
Fucker, excuse me, Tucker Carlson has never really worked.
Okay?
And if you look at these characters, Robert Kennedy Jr., as I call him, Booby Kennedy, has never worked.
AOC has never worked.
So on the left and the right, you have these leaders who essentially had the birth lottery given to them.
Even this guy, Mamdani, his mother is a very, very famous Hollywood director.
A lot of people don't know this.
Mira Naier.
And she directed her son.
This was not something he organically came up.
Central casting.
Right.
So the left and the right have spent a lot of effort in manipulating people to think that they are actually in some fight.
So this image that I recently developed, I don't know if you know, I have a degree in graphic design, David.
So this image sort of captures our meme for 2026 in my U.S. Senate race.
I don't know if you can see it.
Yeah, yeah.
The middle works.
Yeah, even the fist, which was a left-wing, quote-unquote theme, Trump started using the fist, if you noticed.
So we're saying, let's give the middle.
And what do we mean by this?
And, you know, this came to me actually in a dream on how to structure this, but it takes an effort to work on these kinds of graphics, you know?
But we say the middle works, which means we work for a living.
Yeah.
And the middle must rise.
So we have all these workers rising up through the middle finger.
On the left, you have the donkey fearing people rising, AOC, Mamdani, and Bernie, which are sort of the characters, the cast of characters who represent the left.
And over you have, I like to call him Efer Carlson, but I know in respect to your show, I won't do that.
And you have Booby Kennedy, and you have Trump and the elephant.
Both the donkey and the elephant are fearful if someone like me, David, who actually comes from below, that actually has built a movement, a brand even.
I mean, no one gave me Dr. Shiva as a brand.
See, this is the other thing.
They don't want independent people getting limelight or getting fame because they have to own even that.
So when I exposed all this stuff in 2020, the backdoor portal to Twitter, the COVID stuff, the election integrity, they created their own cast of characters two years later to literally plagiarize my material.
And they still do it today because they cannot give independence the limelight because they represent the people.
So our view is the middle is rising.
We must shatter the swarm.
And what we are doing, David, is this meme is a very powerful meme because it goes to working people and saying, look, do you want to get over your own dysfunction?
That's what our campaign is going to do.
It's not about forget them.
We know what they're doing.
But when you have someone like me running, why aren't you getting off your butt and going to your neighbors and saying, you've got to vote for Dr. Shiva?
Because it's not like they don't have a candidate anymore.
So our campaign, I'm going to run, David, but I'm not going to run.
Meaning, the emphasis I'm going to do is someone, and we have a lot of people say, oh, Dr. Shiva, you were great.
Thank you so much for doing those videos.
Great.
Now, what are you going to do?
That's right.
Don't just say you like my videos.
There's 4,000 of them.
But are you going to go tell your neighbors to pledge their vote for me right now?
So people go to ShivanumeralForceSenate.com.
You'll see what we've done, David.
People can go right now and pledge their vote for me.
Now.
We're not waiting to next year.
So if you're listening and you have friends in Massachusetts, tell them to go pledge their vote.
But not only that, tell them to go talk to their neighbors and their family and their friends.
Everyone needs to be a microactivist.
That's right.
Even me going out, running.
I mean, we did this, right?
We drove all around Massachusetts in our bus.
We put up all these signs.
It still was a set of us.
The only way we working people can win is if it's a self-organizing system, which is a principle of system science.
If individuals on the node all say, hey, I like this guy, Dr. Shiva.
I know he's proven.
My resume speaks for itself, David.
You look at all these politicians.
Let's look at if they have ever in their life solved a problem.
We had Trump who bankrupted six casinos.
Exactly.
So ultimate low achiever.
He's even sued the people who wrote a book about him who said, lucky loser.
They've got a slot machine on the cover.
Well, I think one of his professors that one of his professors awarded and said he was the dumbest student he ever had.
So what you're looking at is, and booby effing Kennedy, by the way, the way he applied to Harvard was just put his name, the hubris.
And he gets in.
His thesis is completely written by his roommate who couldn't get girls.
So the trade was he would get him girls and he wrote his thesis.
So these people do not work.
And you have to have a significant amount of hatred and anger at them.
But the more important thing, David, is what we want to educate people is, why are you in this, why are you letting the left and the right divide us?
And this is a personal dysfunction people need to do reflection on.
And so my job as an educator, as a, you know, I think a penultimate candidate for Senate is I've worked to get here.
So people now, working people need to say, wait a minute, this is one of us.
Why do I vote for the left or right?
They need to do their own reflection.
And it's a one degree shift that needs to take place.
Because you have these people.
You have these people who the double thing that they're able to engage in is just amazing.
They absolutely hate X or Y. Let's say they hate the vaccine, right?
But they love the father of the vaccine.
It's like, how can you not see this?
I understand when it is sold to them by the people who make money by appeasing these people and by telling the group what they want to hear.
But the group think is absolutely killing us.
Well, the reason it's occurring, that's why this graphic is nice, David, because they have it down to a science.
It's a psychological operation science.
So Bernie Sanders or Mamdani or AOC will attack these people as quote-unquote Zionists, okay?
Or they will attack them and say, you guys are Nepo babies, right?
Yep.
Which is true.
And these guys on the right, you know, Trump will say Bernie and all these people just want free stuff, which is also true.
Okay?
So the reality is Mamdani is not talking about like a workers state where working people seize a means of power.
He's talking about top-down socialism, state capitalism.
No different than what Trump wants, what he's doing with NVIDIA.
That's why Trump and Mamdani meeting, I did a little blog post on this, and being chums in some sense, each supporting each other, reveals the fact that the economic conditions in the United States where working people have been devastated.
So what the elites are doing is that entire scene in the White House was telling working people on the left and the right, don't worry, we have it under control.
Trump and Mamdani are meeting together.
They're all on the same team.
You don't have to do anything.
They'll take care of it.
And this is why the middle is so important.
The middle must rise up.
And from a philosophical, spiritual, whatever you want to talk about it, our 2026 campaign for U.S. Senate is going to be a very different campaign.
We're going to ask the individual, oh, you support me, but what are you going to do?
What are you going to do?
And we're going to go to all these working people and say, look, you work for a living.
They don't.
Why do you give all your self-respect to them?
And I think this is, if you study the psychology of abusive relationships, this is what happens.
The abuser somehow brainwashes the abuse victim to keep coming back to them.
You see, in all sorts of, and so it's basically a mass abuser-abuse-victim relationship.
That's what we're fundamentally dealing with.
And the way they're able to get away with it, David, as this meme reflects, is one group says half-truths against the other, and the other group says half-truths against the other.
So people are literally split.
So Trump, the elites, the swarm created Trump because they needed the white working class to have hope.
Because the same white working class, at least 60% of them, who voted for Trump had voted for Obama.
And his thing was hope.
Right?
So they have this down to a theatrical physics.
That's right.
Yeah, we're supposed to believe that Trump is a blue-collar billionaire.
Yeah, or Tucker Carlson, who wanted to be in the CIA, is somehow come to some holy revelation that he's fighting demons, as he says, in his sleep, and now he wants to reveal truth.
Well, the revelation of truth is not sufficient to change because now every grifter is exposing truth.
Quote-unquote truth.
But none of them will ever, ever, when it comes to talking about election integrity, when I did all the breakthrough work, will ever mention my name.
When we were the ones to expose a backdoor portal to Twitter, except a few people like yourself and maybe Clayton Morris will say, wait a minute, he's the one who did the work.
But they literally steal our truth that we expose because they don't want the limelight coming to working people like myself who do the hard work.
And this is what people need to understand.
They do this consistently.
Credit.
They'll diminish you for saying, hey, I did that work.
Oh, why do you want credit, David?
Why do you want.
But everything they do is about getting credit.
The Trump is a brand.
The Kennedys are a brand.
And they spend billions of dollars creating their brand equity.
Well, I created the Dr. Shiva, or Truth Freedom Health brand, bottoms up.
And that really pisses them off, David, because we understood their dynamics.
And that's why in 2026, our Campaign in Massachusetts, and I we're gonna win this campaign because we're going to win it because the previous campaigns were about exposing truth.
But this time we're gonna win this campaign.
You know, 96% of the youth under the age of 26 in Massachusetts are independents now.
65% of people under the age of 55 are independents now in Massachusetts.
The work that we did, a lot of people moved to becoming independent.
There's only 9% Republicans and 35% Democrats.
So the majority is independents.
Yeah.
And they don't have a voice.
So that's why the left and right create this fake dialectic to split the middle.
And so I think the great thing with our campaign is we're going down to the heart, the root cause of the issue.
It's not them, it's us, David.
Why is it we remain abusive victims?
That's right.
Why do we listen to Tucker Carlson, the idiot, got $25 million working for Fox, and suddenly he's become a truth teller?
He didn't know anything about Israel for 40, 50 years of his life.
Suddenly, you know?
Or 9-11, you know?
He shut down people when they wanted to show videos of what was happening at 9-11, you know, and now I hear he's going to do some kind of a 9-11 documentary and reinvent himself.
Right.
All he said was, hey, if you talk about building seven, they'll fire you.
So I won't talk about it.
So who's controlling?
The age of disclosure, this movie about UFOs, right, with Marco Rubio.
I mean, anything Marco Rubio is involved with is a joke.
Okay, the guy is a joke.
But anyway, they have gotten very clever with these cast of characters.
And that is why our campaign is going to take all the learnings, all the work we've done, and focus on the singular point.
Do you want to save yourself?
Period.
To the individual.
And why do you give up your self-respect to these fools who say one thing and do another?
They're all fake Indians.
That's right.
Right?
Well, I think it's really coming, it's coming to a head now because I don't know if you are familiar with the work of Strauss and Howe in the fourth turning, but I really do believe the research they had has a lot of validity in it, that we have the cyclical thing.
And you can see the institutions and the corruption that is there.
You see the economic issues and the fact that all these different countries are trying to find war wherever they can get it to distract the people at home because they know that they're at war with the people at home.
So let's get them focused on something over here where we can all unite and they can cheer and get behind us.
But, you know, they're talking about how there was an MIT study saying they could replace, and I don't know if it's true or not, they could replace a little over 12% of the workforce right now with AI.
If they do that.
25 million people, yeah.
Yeah, if they do that, that's going to be instant depression.
You know, that was most of the Depression.
We had about a 14-15% unemployment rate.
They could do that just like, you know, with a drop of a hat if they wanted to.
And it doesn't matter if the AI really works all that well.
They could still fire you.
You know, so people are looking at this.
And when Huang of NVIDIA went to DC, people were talking to him.
He says, yeah, everybody says it's going to take your job.
No, you're going to work harder.
You're going to have a job and you're going to work harder.
So we can go back, forget about the eight-hour day, right?
That's what these guys would like to do, I guess, is take us back.
That's his favorite.
I think what's going to happen.
Well, what's going to happen, David?
I don't know if you know, I have the three earliest patents in text-based AI from 1993 that I used for a company.
And it's interesting, right when those patents expired, a few months later is when ChatGPT came.
Okay.
But anyway, so I know a little bit, I was in this field for 20 years.
So when you look at AI, you know, as a senator, for example, one of the laws that people should think about is this.
You have private companies over here creating technologies to suck human knowledge and instantiate it into a machine.
Okay?
Most of the AI requires what's called supervised learning.
So you have to give it information so they have people in Africa watching images and deciding what kind of image it is.
And eventually those people won't be needed.
Labeling.
It's called a training set.
So the interesting question, and I think only someone like me could even bring this up, because I understand the bridge between technology politics and engineering is: so if you are a worker doing some task, let's say a radiologist, and a machine, which is a private company, is watching your diagnosis.
It's getting all that information and it's going into this private company's database.
Eventually, the radiologist will not be needed.
The radiologist was hired, you know, X salary per hour.
He was not given any, he will never be given any royalty or IP for his knowledge that was taken from his brain.
Right.
So I, for example, first of all, educate people like I'm doing right now, but more importantly, if knowledge is taken from a human being and put into a private company, no compensation is made, you could argue that private company owns a royalty stream to those individuals.
For that matter, to all of us.
Yeah.
You know, when Google is looking at all of our searches, because a few of them are monopolies, we are not, as humans, being compensated for the knowledge that they're taking from us.
Now, you could say to Google, if you have a web page, I don't want my web page indexed, which means you'll never show up.
So they force you to give your knowledge to them, and there's no consideration given to you for exchange of this value.
So there's a fundamental issue here, and this is happening in the arts, right?
Oh, yeah, but most of these, you know, besides the A-list actors, who are also selling their rights by them, they'll get compensated.
The majority of us who are working today, there is no fundamental structure to compensate you for the fact that random private companies funded by Silicon Valley are vacuuming up your brain, and you are not going to be compensated for that.
That's right.
So this is, there has to be some compensatory relief for that because it was your knowledge that trained these systems.
You know, when I used to, I created a technology years ago for automatically reading an email separate from the invention of email, analyzing it, and routing it.
So we were actually used to watch the call center reps, how they treated an email and our systems would learn.
So instead of doing six emails per hour, our call center representative could do 40 emails.
Okay?
So AI can be used as a significant adjunct to obviously creating more productivity.
But the elites don't care about that.
They're not going to say, okay, we have 100 workers.
We're going to put in AI.
And then we're going to basically, the ideal model would be you compensate people fairly, but maybe they don't have to work four days a week.
Or five days a week.
Maybe they work three days a week because their knowledge was used to train those systems.
Instead, what they'll do is fire 80% of the workforce and have the remaining 20% working three times more.
That's right.
You see?
Yeah.
So that's kind of what Disney did when they brought in the H-1B visa people.
They said, well, you know, we'll give you a little bit more severance pay if you train replacement.
And that's really what is happening across the board with artificial intelligence, as you pointed out.
Yeah, I did a podcast years and years ago explaining: look, AI is not machine AI.
AI existed the instant that Henry Ford created the manufacturing line.
Okay, that was AI.
He took a very complex process of creating a car, he made it into an individual task-based process, and then he put these carbon-based beings along that manufacturer.
Some of them just screwed on a bolt, others put on the windshield wiper.
That was AI because you took human creative intelligence and localized it into doing one task.
Now, if you remove the carbon-based being and you put a silicon-based being, that's still AI.
You see what I'm saying?
So, people need to understand that from the aspect of productivity, which has been explosively growing.
You know, capitalism has done that.
The goal of capitalism is to maximize profit.
Labor is the biggest expense in that formula.
So, you're trying to reduce labor, which you're trying to increase productivity.
But the promise of that was not that you would lay off everyone, right?
As productivity increased, the mass of human workers should be able to work less hours.
Instead, the model that came from crony capitalism was you lay off 80% of the people, and then 20% are working harder.
And that's what's going to happen with AI.
So, if you learn how to use AI well, you don't need a certain set of low-level workers.
But whenever new technologies come, David, the legislators in Congress, who are basically dumb as doorknobs, will always get manipulated, in this case, by Silicon Valley.
So, for example, I know this personally, you know, when I invented email back in 78, there were no laws to patent software because the idiots in Congress thought software was a movie script.
You were writing something.
Right?
So, the problem is when you have idiots who don't create, who are in the political process, they can get manipulated by others.
It was only in 1994 could you patent software.
In 1980, the Computer Software Act allowed you to use copyright law to protect software, which is what I did.
Okay?
But the point is, when you have morons who have never created anything, they're very different than the founders.
They actually architect.
So, when you are with your hands doing something, you are much more fair in the laws that you want to create and you're thinking into the future.
I mean, the founders were thinking 200, 300 years ahead because they were creators.
But if you look at the resume of 99% of the people in Congress or Senate, and everyone should do this, this is to working people listening.
Why are you electing these idiots?
Ask yourself when they say, I will solve this problem.
Well, have you ever solved a problem?
Show me one problem you solve.
I will fix this.
Have they ever fixed anything?
I will create this.
Have they ever created anything?
And I think it's time people take this approach.
And the fact that people don't take that approach, David, again, it comes down to a dysfunction among the broad mass of people who have been manipulated to think Tucker Carlson making his grimaces and faces has some authority to talk about anything.
I mean, he hasn't earned that right.
I'm sorry.
You didn't put in the freaking time.
Or Bernie Sanders talking about how he cares about working people.
You've never worked a day in your life.
So I think it's really important that working people derive some self-respect for themselves.
And it's like the slaves have forgotten.
They're the ones who are doing all the work.
That's right.
Right?
So the slaves need to wake up and want to save themselves, want to have leaders come from.
There will be leaders.
But why are you electing leaders who have nothing to do with you, who don't even want to be with you, who have great disdain for you?
Why are you doing that?
And that's because you're in an abusive relationship.
That's right.
And this is, I think, very, very deeply a fundamental issue that people need to reflect on.
And that's why in 2026, David, I'm not going to run around.
I'm not going to do all the work.
So if people want me, you're going to have to do the work.
That's right.
Yeah, and that's a message that people really need to hear because the plan, and they keep telling us this is a plan, they want to pacify us.
You know, well, hey, you know, you can have a job if you want to, but you don't really need to.
We'll give you everything that you need.
And it's just kind of like having a garden, right?
You don't really need to have a garden.
You can go down and buy all the food you want at the grocery store.
But if you want to have a garden, because that's something you want to do, that's fine.
It's a hobby.
So you can have some hobbies, but we're going to put you on universal basic welfare.
And all the money is going to be made by us.
And at the same time he's doing that, Musk is saying, at the same time he wants to have all the money in the world that belongs to him.
He's saying, well, money's not going to mean anything, right?
Well, where did Musk come from?
Where did Musk come from, David?
He came from apartheid South Africa, where they had 3% of the population, having 97% do all the mining for emeralds, diamonds, jewels, etc., right?
That's right.
So that's where Musk comes from.
And he needs to justify his own legacy of exploitation, right?
It's not like he's concerned for humanity.
The reality is when you look at the aspect of AI and what can happen, he has no, you know, when he says everyone's going to doesn't have to work, let me put it to you this way.
This is what the quote-unquote white man did to Native Americans.
You don't have to work.
We're going to put you on reservations.
What's now happened is that we have a decentralized reservation.
Yeah, that's exactly the model.
Yeah, so 70% of people are basically living hand to mouth, right?
I think 80% of Americans may have $1,000 in savings for a rainy day.
They are all exposed to some type of substance abuse, cannabis, which is, by the way, not a harmless drug.
And we can do a whole discussion on that.
Okay?
I agree.
Or alcohol or smoking.
I don't support any of that.
I'm against the drug war.
But when you go back to the Indian reservation, I think that really is the model that they've got.
That's the model.
In that particular case, these people who supported themselves by hunting and gathering or whatever it was that they were doing, and they took that away from them by force, put them into this container.
With us, for the most part, they're doing it with a program of pacification, like you would domesticate a wild wolf or something.
You feed them until they become dependent on you.
And yet they will go to the next level.
That's only going to get a certain percentage of people.
As you point out, it's decentralized.
It's everywhere.
The control is centralized.
But yeah, and so they'll be able to have a situation where if you don't toe the line, we're going to cut you off from everything.
And if you do toe the line, we'll give you all the free stuff.
I mean, that's what Bill Gates is doing in India with the Aadhaar system.
If you're poor and you're reliant on a handout from the government, that's fine.
We'll give it to you as long as you take the number.
If you need health care, we'll give it to you as long as you take the number.
But that allows us to control you, to inventory you, and to know everything that you're doing.
We'll let you walk around freely, but you won't be able to do anything if you don't take the system that we're imposing on you.
And so that's kind of the model.
Yeah.
So in the United States now, it was interesting.
There's a butcher over here that I went to, a young guy, and he said that, you know, he said, oh, I've got a lot of Bitcoin.
This is like several years ago.
And I saw him a couple weeks ago and he said, oh, I sold all my Bitcoin.
And I said, how many did you have?
He goes, oh, I had 280.
I go, but how many did you sell?
Oh, 20.
I go, what happened to your other 260?
He goes, oh, I got into on these online gambling crypto sites and I lost 260.
Wow.
Okay, so they basically lost 20 million dollars.
Yeah.
Okay.
So they have the slaves gambling on drugs and encouraging them not to work.
That's a reservation.
That's right.
And this is happening.
So you talked about the Aadhaar system in India, which was actually implemented by another scumbag called Nanda Nilakani.
He's the one who actually developed it originally.
He was brought in by the former prime minister to do it.
But they have China being the Petri dish for surveillance.
That's right.
And then they have India being the Petri dish for getting everyone on a card and how you incentivize people not to work.
Look, 30 years ago in India.
They're kind of the beta test sites, you know, they're beta test sites.
That's right, yeah.
Mass populations.
So, you know, if you, it's very hard to get laborers to do anything in India now because this Aadhaar system gives everyone a free TV, free laptops, free food.
So people are working like, why the hell do I need to work?
That's what scared me so much about the lockdowns.
I saw that as an Overton window normalization of this very type of thing.
And I was surprised when they locked everybody down, everybody's going to take the handout and then they get used to it.
Just like that.
I mean, it just took a hold of them.
They didn't push back against it at all.
What's really interesting, David, I don't know if you've ever gone on Safari in Africa.
No.
Have you done that?
No.
Well, it's an interesting thing.
I went once, and you're sitting there, and you're seeing all these animals, right?
Lions, tigers, right?
And you see these monkeys, right?
And they're living among each other and they're scratching, you know, whatever fleas off them.
But they're living in this environment.
And you think about the fact that we as humans at one time lived in very basic conditions, right?
Living off the land, you know, very simple stuff.
And I think the swarm knows this, that they could keep diminishing the infrastructure and people live with less and less and less.
So, right?
Like you could theoretically just live in the woods, right?
You know, learn how to kill an.
I mean, you could go to that level of, you could say, I'm living off the land, but you could go to that level.
So I think the elites have done their calculus and they know that the bottom is pretty low.
So you see in San Francisco, people are shitting on the streets.
Right?
Yeah.
So I think a lot of very dumb activists, and this is a demoralization that's taken place to not build a bottom movement.
They'll say, oh, Dr. Shiva, your movement won't be successful.
You have to wait until there's a cataclysm.
Then people rise up.
It's actually not true.
When a cataclysm occurs, people go to a new state of oppression and a newer state and a newer state.
So if you ever go to India, you'll see on a highway ride down Delhi a guy taking a shower and pooping on the streets.
And you'll see a guy like the Ambanis in Bombay, right?
Who live in a billion-dollar skyscraper.
So the elites know that the human mind can be manipulated.
So putting people on UBI is going to be the squeeze.
So I think it's going to be a slow squeeze.
They're not just going to go kill people.
You're going to get 20 million jobs off AI.
Put them on reservations, let them get drunk, let them eat crappy food, and they're just slowly going to die off.
Yeah.
Right?
That's right.
And that's what they did with the Native Americans, right?
Right.
So that model, I think, has been mapped out in some wonderful spreadsheet created by, you know, whoever, right?
So I think these guys are very clever.
And the only way out of this is us building a bottoms-up movement.
Now, intellectuals, like myself.
And if we wait for a crisis like you're talking about, that was what surprised me about the lockdowns and stuff in 2020.
I thought, okay, they're going to change things rapidly enough, and they're changing them very rapidly.
It's going to wake people up.
You know, the whole boiling frogs thing.
And yet, when they sped up the change, it didn't wake people up.
And I thought, wow.
No, no, no, because this is this erroneous theory.
Yeah.
That was put forward.
Oppression will somehow give a rise.
Oppression oppresses.
That's right.
Oppression doesn't lead to liberation.
So they have a set of fake activists telling people, that's why they do all the doomsday stuff.
Oh, Wall Street's going to crash tomorrow.
Well, and then people will rise up.
It's nonsense.
That's right.
You have to build, change is not something spontaneous.
Change must be organized.
It must be built bottoms up.
You have to have the right theory.
You have to have the, like anything.
I mean, this iPhone didn't just pop out of it nowhere, right?
That's right.
Someone had to think about it, apply the physics, the chemistry, the material science to make it.
So this is what they don't want.
Intellectuals.
So intellectuals are interesting, David.
You could say, I'm an intellectual, right?
You're an intellectual.
Now, intellectuals are interesting in the sense they're not a class.
You know, the swarm gave me the opportunity to go to MIT to learn this shit, right?
But I could easily have taken my weaponry of the intellectual knowledge I got and been on Wall Street working at a hedge fund doing nonlinear dynamic equations.
Or I could say, you know what?
I don't really want to do that.
I actually want to learn how to shatter the swarm, the system's dynamics.
So there was a time at the time of, let's say, the revolution or the Renaissance where intellectuals made conscious decisions.
Who did they want to serve?
The majority of intellectuals in academia are practicing the oldest profession in the world right now.
That's right.
Right?
So there's not, so we have to actually go among working people and give them the knowledge.
And that's what we're doing with our movement.
So we train them on the same advanced system science that you would learn as a PhD.
That's what I really like about your movements and about your campaigns.
Your campaigns are a way to pull people around, organize them, and give them the real tools and the perspective that they need to actually activate them.
And that's what that's really about.
That is so much more important than the elections.
But again, when people are paying attention to what's going on, at least a little bit, you can grab those people who are at least looking around and seeing the things that are out there and then focus them on getting actively involved themselves.
And that's why that is so important.
Well, we're out of time, but thank you so much for coming on, Dr. Shiva.
And we'll talk to you more about this.
Shiva, the number four, and senate.com.
Again, go there.
That'll show people how they can get involved and they can learn about the swarm and how they can start to take control of this process instead of being controlled by it.
We need to be history's actors.
That's what Karl Rove used to mock us and say, well, you're just watching what we're doing.
We're the people who are actually doing it.
You can be the people who are actually doing it.
That's the message from Dr. Shiva.
Thank you so much.
Appreciate it.
All right, David.
Thank you.
Yeah, and sounds like the clown car is there for you.
All right, thank you.
Bye-bye.
Thanks, everybody.
Thanks for joining us.
Have a good day.
The Common Man.
They created common core to dumb down our children.
They created common pasts to track and control us.
Their commons project to make sure the commoners own nothing.
and the communist future.
They see the common man as simple, unsophisticated, ordinary.
But each of us has worth and dignity, created in the image of God.
That is what we have in common.
That is what they want to take away.
Their most powerful weapons are isolation, deception, intimidation.
They desire to know everything about us while they hide everything from us.
It's time to turn that around and expose what they want to hide.
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