James Fox investigates the 1996 Varginha incident in Brazil, where neurosurgeon Dr. Italo claims to have examined a live alien with lilac eyes before disappearing under threat. The episode details military cover-ups involving CIA flight logs, the death of witness Marco Ciarizzi from alien bacteria, and DEFCON 2 alerts triggered by the 1997 Phoenix Lights. Fox critiques former DNI James Clapper's credibility regarding crash retrievals and government disinformation campaigns like Mirage Men, while advocating for witness immunity to expose potential extraterrestrial biologics despite visa denials and personal tragedy. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, WAV2VEC2_ASR_BASE_960H, sat-12l-sm, script v26.04.01, and large-v3-turbo
Time
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Fresh Movie Scene00:14:19
Dude, so this morning I watched your movie.
Oh, wow.
The new movie.
It's fresh.
It's fresh.
Yeah.
I like to keep it fresh.
And I have to say, I was just completely thrown by that last scene with the neurosurgeon talking about that being.
It was like that, what he described is like exactly what you would imagine or exactly.
What a Spielberg movie scene would be in this scenario, right?
It's this, he described this being sitting on the hospital bed, this neurosurgeon, communicating with him, being calm, content.
And he said there was nothing evil, nothing malevolent.
And it was just there with us and it was calm.
And the military bursts in and takes it away.
And then, like, he started crying about it.
You could really, and then he also said it was like an angel.
You know, people have criticized.
I've gotten a little criticism online because they're like, well, there's a video statement from Dr. Itolos denying having seen the creature.
I was like, yeah, that video statement came from us.
Like, we filmed that because we have a mole at one of the hospitals.
I'm not going to say which one, who's been telling us for over a decade.
We meet covertly every time we go to Virginia.
Says, you might want to go talk to this individual.
You might want to talk to that person.
That person, I've I've got word that that person saw the video.
And it's like, we're trying to track down the video.
That's like the holy grail, right?
So we hear that Dr. Italo, and this is like a year ago, maybe a little over a year ago.
We hear that Dr. Well, God, it might have been a year and a half ago at this point.
Time flies.
And we hear that Dr. Italo, who's a neurosurgeon at Regional Hospital, had seen the video.
So we're like going after this guy with everything we've got, as we do with witnesses.
And it makes sense because We have all this testimony leading up to Regional Hospital.
Then we've got a gap at Regional Hospital.
We know the creature ended up alive at Regional Hospital because of all the capture, the girls, like all that stuff lines up perfectly that it was at Regional Hospital alive.
We also have testimony from Military X who drove a creature or two creatures, definitely one that he saw, from Humanitas Hospital to as a military base.
And then from Ezza to Campinas, where the Americans came in.
And we could talk about the FOIA requests for the flight logs that we put in, but that's another conversation.
So, Regional Hospital was the second hospital?
Regional Hospital, well, initially went to a clinic, and then evidently the doctor came out.
The creature didn't even get out of the car and took one look.
He's like, I don't know what the hell that thing is, but get it out of here.
And they left and they went to Regional Hospital.
Got it.
So, we heard about this Dr. Italo character as having seen the video.
So, we went after him.
Marco.
Marco Leal, my partner, boots on the ground.
He was like, he's very good, very persistent.
He's like me.
We're both incredibly tenacious.
I mean, we're like the squeaky wheel.
And we ultimately get a meeting with him, and Marco puts it on Zoom video Zoom call.
And again, this is like a year and a half ago.
And I was just laser focused on the video.
Like, I was so excited.
I was bubbling over like a kid on Christmas morning.
You know, I'm thinking, oh my God, really does this guy?
Because I'm thinking either he has a copy or he could lead us to who shot it and who has the copy.
Right.
So I'm asking him, Did you see the video?
Did you see the video of the live creature?
Blah, You know, Marco's translating everything on the screen while I'm doing it.
I was in Vermont and he confesses that having seen the video on video.
I was like, oh my God, you know, and he now jokingly calls me, oh my God, because I was like, oh my God, you know, because it was a big development for me, right?
It's the first time I'm talking to a neurosurgeon who evidently saw the video.
So we hang up the call, and I'm thinking, okay, I need to go back to Varsini.
I need to dig deep on this one, which we did later, multiple times.
And Marco sits down with him and questions him some more.
He was like, pushes them further.
And he denies having seen the creature.
He's like, this video is as far as I'm going to go, you know, and so.
That happens.
The next year, he has a heart attack.
Then he gets prostate cancer.
And evidently, during the heart attack, he knew he's a neurosurgeon.
He's like, I'm having an heart attack.
Right.
Takes himself to the ER and he's like, I'm having a heart attack.
All the symptoms of a heart attack.
So he's staring at the ceiling at the ICU and he says to himself, because his partner, who's a fellow neurosurgeon who's also involved in the case, Also died of a heart attack, right?
Yeah, he died of a heart attack in 2018.
Marco's finisis.
Anyway, so he says to himself, If I survive this, I can't take this to the grave.
Right.
If I survive this story.
Then he gets prostate cancer.
Meanwhile, we're like trying to follow up with him constantly.
I jokingly said to Marco, he's like trying to grab a bar of soap in the bathtub.
Like he gave us a little bit and then we'd grab him and he was like, Sometimes he would respond and he wouldn't respond.
It was like he wanted to engage with us, but he was just like, the implications of it.
He's a, Current neurosurgeon, even to this day, is a neurosurgeon.
And you can imagine, like, people are going to have their brains worked on.
They're going to get word, like, oh, this guy, you know, oh, this guy's the alien guy.
Work on my brains, had communication with a live alien.
Yeah, I don't think so.
And the hospital doesn't want that association.
You know, the military is pretty clear.
The military put the kibosh down on all this stuff.
So we went back to Brazil in January of last year.
And with a film crew, because I was like.
A year ago now.
Yeah, just about exactly a year ago.
Yeah.
And with a film crew.
Because I had two forensic pathologists, and we had some additional people we were going after, but two forensic pathologists.
One who founded the lab that did the tissue sample analysis, the deep dive into the tissue sample analysis of the deceased military officer who allegedly grabbed the creature, got a little scratch on his armpit, according to the forensic pathologist.
There was some bacteria under the nail of the creature that inadvertently got into his blood and he died like really quickly.
And we talked to the doctor that worked on him while he was still alive.
Then we talked to the autopsy, Dr. Armando, who'd performed the autopsy.
He provided tissue samples to Dr. Giannini, who founded the lab, IPD Labs.
And he's like, What was the toxin like?
A granular toxin?
Yeah, they said, He's like, I've been doing thousands.
And the guy's in his 80s.
He's like, I founded the company that did the analysis.
He's like, I've never seen anything like it prior.
I've never seen anything like it before.
He gave us the full detail.
This is all happening.
But while we're doing all this, in the back of my mind, I'm in Virginia.
I'm going, Dr. Italo, Dr. Italo, he's got the video.
He's got the video.
And he's not getting back to us.
He's being real slippery.
And so I said to Dr. Armando, who's very well respected within the medical community in Virginia, a January of 2025.
And I said, hey, you know, we've been really trying to get a hold of this guy.
And I'm sorry if I'm going off on a tangent, but this is important background.
We've really been trying to get a hold of this guy, you know, Dr. Italo, and he goes, Oh, yeah, yeah, I know him.
Hey, Dr. Italo, yeah, of course, he picks right up for him.
And he's like, Yeah, but the Americans, it's all in Portuguese.
I'm picking out a little bit.
The Americans, blah, blah, blah.
They really want to meet with you, blah, Remember, he'd had a heart attack and then he had prostate cancer.
And he goes, Tell them to meet me at the back of the hospital tomorrow at 10 a.m.
And that was at regional.
So we don't know exactly, like, okay, we're going to go.
We're excited, but we don't know exactly what he's going to reveal to us.
And I don't even think, quite honestly, he did.
So we go with the team the next morning.
He meets us at the back, the back entrance, sneaks us through maternity ward.
We go through these corridors.
Boom, down these hallways.
We're filming, rolling camera.
We get to the ICU.
He goes, gear up.
Okay.
I had to put everything on to go just to go into the ICU.
Right.
And he starts talking initially about the video.
And I think he just said, fuck it.
You know, I think he just decided right there on the spot, I'm going full Monty.
And he's like, yeah.
It was in the, and I, it caught me off guard.
I mean, the whole thing's captured on camera.
Yeah.
You know, and it was like, and then, um, then the, you know, People that run the hospital catch us filming in the ICU.
None of us supposed to be there.
We didn't have any permits.
He snuck us in.
He's like, I think I just lost my job.
Then we ended up leaving, all of us together with the camera crew leaving the hospital.
I'm just trying to process what just happened.
I'm like, this could be the biggest development in the history of the phenomenon.
And up until this moment, you only thought that he saw a video.
Pretty much.
Well, yes.
Yeah, totally.
And then he goes on.
When you get there, he proceeds to tell you he straight up had a conversation with the freaking alien right there in that room.
Remember, everything's happening rather quickly and it's happening in Portuguese.
Now, I speak.
French and I speak a little Spanish.
Right, right.
And I've been going to Brazil long enough where I can pick words out of Portuguese.
I mean, when I focus on a different language, I don't care if it's Chinese or like Russian, you know, but I really have this.
I have a lot of weaknesses in my life, but languages are not one of them.
I can really, I could somehow read body language.
I was like, I just think, I was like, hold on a second.
I was trying to process it in the ICU.
I was like, wait, the creature was, this is the very bed, like right, it all happened right here.
Yes.
And then he just drops the bomb on us.
And I was, we all were.
Like if you go, if you look at the film at the end, when the camera's panning across when we arrive in the cafe and you see the sound guy, you see the translator, you see Marco Leal, my partner.
He's like, he's trying to process.
We all were like, this guy just dropped an atomic bomb on the world.
Like, yeah.
The leading neurosurgeon to this day, right now, today, putting his entire reputation on the line.
What is he, lying to not ask me for a dime, okay?
Lying to his wife, lying to his kid, lying to all his fellow co workers.
Why on earth would he do that in his twilight years?
Like, it doesn't make any sense.
What makes sense right before he's about to retire, right before he's about to retire, and what makes sense is that he saw this creature.
He goes, I don't care, it happened.
And the younger generation needs to know this was happening.
I shared a clip with your partner that I haven't shared it.
You can play it if you want, but it's of him, just a statement that he made because he's coming to the United States.
To testify in Washington, D.C., at the Nashville Press Club.
I've been working on it for nine months.
Yes.
You have no idea what I've been doing to make this happen.
The surgeon.
The neurosurgeon is coming to Washington, D.C., yes.
But he gave a statement because if anything happened, because his health has been precarious.
So I got a statement from him, but he's coming.
I bought his ticket, I got his visa, got his passports, all.
It's all approved.
He's all ready to go?
It's all ready to go.
It took me, I've been working on it for about eight months.
Are you going to go down there and fly with him?
Or are you going to let him know?
I have a number of.
Drivers picking him up and his wife, and I've got other people.
I've got the forensic pathologist that did the autopsy on the deceased military officer, Dr. Armando.
He's coming.
He's bringing a statement from Dr. Giannini, who's too old to travel, about the tissue sample analysis, which is absolutely mind boggling.
Mind boggling, dude.
Mind boggling.
Yeah.
Are you a little nervous for the trip that he's about to make?
I'm nervous for everything.
I'm sure everybody knows that.
All the agencies are nervous.
I'm nervous about everything.
Oh, no.
I involved members of Congress and the State Department.
Yes.
Because trying to get the visa applications, I had like 15 applications, 14 applications, something like this.
Yeah.
Is this a video?
No, that's the other one.
It's with the video with him in the coat.
He's got a coat on in the lab.
Nope.
That's the one with all the doctors, and that's an amazing clip.
And you should watch that for this one right here.
This one right here.
That's the one.
All right.
Give us some volume, Steve.
Give us some volume and back it up.
Go for it.
I swear that I will share the truth and nothing but the truth.
I've been a doctor for 46 years.
In 1996, on January 20th.
I was called to see a patient.
Getting there, I realized it was a being not of this planet.
I was called to give my opinion on the case, accessing it medically, assessing it.
Conscious, no pain, no bleeding, breathing well, very calm and tranquil.
Resembling a seven year old, pale, no bad odor.
Head was large, teardrop shaped, small mouth, one hand under the sheet, other one out.
His eyes weren't red.
They were lilac and teardrop shaped.
Looking at me very calmly, not agitated, aggressive, or in pain.
I think not afraid either.
He seemed to understand the situation.
A beautiful gaze without judgment.
Twice he looked at me, then to the window, then at me again.
I stood about 60 inches away from him.
I did not touch, but I was touched.
His way of looking suggested an intelligence greater than ours, than humans.
He understood, despite his defensive position.
He was not afraid, he understood what was happening.
He likely had some purpose for being there.
The truth is, I'm an eyewitness, I saw the being.
Beautiful Gaze Without Judgment00:02:58
Say what you want, joke, mock.
But I saw him lying there in front of me.
And it's important to highlight this is not about money.
This is what changes the very concept of humanity being from another place.
I was called by chance to see another patient and I saw it.
It's important for people to know this.
Those who say they've seen a spacecraft, we really saw it.
It's not easy to be here on camera talking about this.
They ask and ask, and it feels like we are lying, having to insist.
I have sworn I saw it, and I did.
I want the youngest generation to believe that this indeed exists.
Wow.
Wow.
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Why would he do it?
Why?
For what purpose?
Lying to his.
I'm sitting with his wife.
He's lying to his son, his family, his coworkers of 45 years.
Trusted Amanita Professionals00:06:15
There's another clip.
When is this press club event?
January 20th at the National Press Club in Washington, D.C.
Okay.
So check this out.
This is me two weeks ago in Virginia, Brazil with an unprecedented meeting with all the doctors involved with the case.
And there are others, but all the doctors that we know of involved with the case.
And listen to what I say to all the doctors.
And there's Amar with Yes Series next to me.
I would like to ask Giannini how long Giannini has known Ítalo.
Faz quanto tempo que o senhor conhece o Ítalo?
Desde que ele chegou em Barcelona.
Passamos de time, nós vamos falar.
We are divers.
Ok, so a long time, safe to say a long time.
48 years.
48 years.
Você chegou, Venus.
Dr. Armando, how long have you known him?
35 years.
35 years.
How long have you known Ítalo?
Thirty five years.
So, doctors, when he says he saw the creature in captivity at regional hospital, do you guys believe him?
In towns, quando dottorito fala, he liviu a creatura in cachiverna no sete, vocês acreditam no quede fala?
He's the one that did the Tissue samples of the deceased military.
That's Dr. Giannini, yes.
He owns the company IPD Labs that did the tissue samples.
He did them personally.
He's never seen anything like it since or before.
Thousands and thousands and thousands of studies.
He said the bacteria performed in a way that nothing he's ever seen on earth.
This is the bacteria that killed Marco Ciarizzi.
Evidently, yes.
What else did he say about the bacteria specifically?
So the doctor, you see right here, there's Dr. Cesario with the glasses on.
There's a guy filming him.
That's the guy that worked on Marco Ciarizzi while he was still alive in the hospital.
Okay, this medium is unprecedented.
It just happened a couple weeks ago.
So, for people that for context, for folks, uh, you can go back and watch the original podcast, what you and I did about two and a half to three years ago on this.
But Marco Schurger, he was one of the police officers that captured the alien when it was running around town.
Yeah.
And he grabbed it with his bare hands and threw it in the back of a police car.
Yeah, back of a cop.
It actually was not a car, one of their personal cars.
But in any case.
Okay.
Yeah, there were two military guys on there.
Eric Lopes was driving.
Eric Lopes was driving, and he had a mission that night, and he was on duty to go look for something terribly unusual.
I don't even think he was told, like, there's an alien on the loose.
They just, like, go out and.
And so he calls his buddy who was not on duty, Marco Cheriz.
They were buddies that grew up together.
They're both military police.
And in Brazil, when you're a police officer, you're military.
When you're a fire department, you're still military.
If you're a radar control operator, you're still military, right?
Mm hmm.
So he calls his buddy, he goes, Hey, I got this unusual mission.
You want to jump in the car?
You want to go with me?
And he's like, Yeah, what's up?
And he says, You know, there's this strange creature or something.
Eric Lopes was in charge.
Eric Lopes was in charge.
Eric Lopes was driving.
Runs across the road and right in front of him, just a couple blocks away from where the girls had seen the creature, three girls in broad daylight just a couple hours earlier, and a military blockade all around that area, everything lines up perfectly.
And grabs the creature without a moment's hesitation, puts it in the back of the car.
I was told even on his lap by one of the Brazilian researchers, new Eric Lopes, but I'm not sure about that.
Takes it to a clinic, and the clinic doctor came out, saw the creature, and was like, I don't know what that thing is, get it out of here.
And then he ultimately takes it to a regional hospital.
Where he drops it off, and then Dr. Itala was on duty that night.
So he gets a scratch.
And apparently, he had like some oil on his skin, which is weird because the girls described this creature as exactly as the same creature that Itala saw the little knobs on the head, the big eyes.
He described them as red.
He described them as lilac.
He described the skin as more of a white.
They were saying brown and oily.
In the operating room, right?
They said it was white too.
Yeah, it was exactly in the, well, I'd say operating room of the eye.
It was the ICU.
ICU.
Yeah.
So, anyway, I don't know, man.
One can speculate, but the girl said it was cowering.
It was afraid.
It was suffering.
She said that it was really, because January is summertime in Brazil, that it was really, really hot and that the skin was just like it looked like it was really suffering out in this.
Maybe it's some sort of defensive measure where it excretes bodily fluids out the skin and that smells.
Does it turn brown from the hot sun?
I have no idea.
And it reeks of sulfur and ammonia.
Yeah, it reeked of sulfur and ammonia.
So, But anyway, so Marco Cheriz gets this infection.
He gets a scratch under his armpit.
And it wasn't like the creature tried to kill him.
It was just like he grabbed it and he got a scratch under the armpit.
And Dr. Giannini, who saw the older gentleman, he said most likely the scratch came from bacteria under the nail of the creature and they got into his blood.
Right.
Dr. Cesario worked on him in the ICU.
And he said, I threw the kitchen sink at him.
I've never seen bacteria not respond to what I did, ever, before or since.
And he's been working, he's been a doctor for 45 years.
Wow.
So he was there at that event.
Then we had Dr. Armando, who performed once Marco Chirizzi died.
He performed the autopsy, and Dr. Armando provided tissue samples to the owner of the company, IPD Labs, Dr. Giannini.
And he's the one that went on camera.
The old guy with the white hair.
Yep.
And they all decided ultimately to go on camera.
That's why I was like, this is really significant development.
These are scientists.
You know what I mean?
So that event was really important because it brought all the doctors together, all the doctors' wives together, were in a relaxed environment and talking about it.
It's like, do you believe this guy?
How long have you known him?
If he says, I mean, I just don't see why he would make this up.
Dude, it's so crazy to me.
Like, what?
Like, this story is so, you're so deep in the weeds with this story, right?
Scientists Go On Camera00:08:01
You're in the guts of Brazil, right?
Talking to these doctors in this hotel lobby about a live alien.
I know.
That accidentally infected a guy and killed him with bacteria.
And then the surgeon had a conversation with him.
And at the same time, you have another foot in like Washington, D.C., with people like Christopher Mellon and Lou Elizondo.
Like, how do you reconcile that?
Like, how do you, like, when meanwhile, these guys are going on documentaries.
That are like, oh, we have to do disclosure.
And they're talking about skiffs and Congress and unidentified reverse engineered craft sitting in hangers.
And you're in the jungle talking about a freaking alien being.
And it crashed you.
And it crashed you.
Like, do you have conversations with those guys about this stuff?
I do.
It's really, you know, my life has been really weird these last couple of years.
My family life is really struggling.
And I don't blame her because, you know, I'm really, I'm almost like, it's like, If you can imagine witnessing a really crazy murder, right?
And you're a witness to it, do you just like let it go?
Right.
Or do you feel like this burning desire to let the world know?
It's not like I want to come across as this crazy, you know, person that feels the need to spread, you know, the truth.
It's not like that.
Because I hate people that prophesize and go around.
It's like, you know, people that are vegetarians are like, yeah, I don't eat meat.
It's like, shut the hell up.
You do you, let me do me.
Right.
Or somebody who's maybe a Scientology, they go out there and You must, you know, are knocking on doors about, you know, you know what I mean?
Like spreading the word.
That's not me.
But what do you do?
Like, I feel like if this story is true and I'm ready to put my life on it, that it is.
And I didn't believe that when I first started this investigation over 16 years ago.
I really didn't.
And I totally understand when I see the level of skepticism with people like, oh, it's a bridge too far.
I get it.
Believe me, I get it.
But I'm like, shit, if this happened, would you consider this a significant story?
And everyone's like, oh, dude, this is the biggest story.
Ever like this, and I'm convinced it's happened, and I can't let it go.
I can't, I can't do it.
So, it's really frustrating because I go to sleep thinking about it, I wake up thinking about it, and at some point, I can't let it destroy me.
You know what I mean?
Right.
I'm doing the best I can to get it out there, and at the end of the day, it's all I can do.
And I'm hoping that other younger generation will pick up the torch and also continue digging.
I'm hoping that I can launch.
An investigation, a congressional investigation.
Now we filed FOIA requests about flight logs, came back from the CIA denying those FOIA requests.
And, but maybe Congress, maybe I can raise enough noise and get, you know, influencers like yourself to say, hey, let's at least prove this wrong.
Let's at least launch a congressional investigation.
Let's find the flight records for all the planes that came into Campinas from the United States Air Force during January of 1996.
Like, why not?
Let's look into that?
Because I've got People in the United States Air Force, one colonel that I've been working with, he's retired.
He's like, I'm telling you, man, if I can get a flight log, I'll know where that plane went.
Then I'll know where the debris was talking, blah, And it's like, we need that, but I need help.
Like, I need.
So I'm just hoping that all these efforts and the recut of the film, which, quite honestly, maybe the first cut, Moment of Contact, which was very compelling, right?
I mean, it's very.
But now we've got the chief of police, we've got two forensic pathologists, we've got that head neurosurgeon.
You show me one case.
In the history of the phenomenon, where we have extremely credible testimony, I can't say it's ironclad.
He doesn't have a video, but this is extremely credible eyewitness testimony of firsthand telepathic face to face communication with an alien in captivity.
Show me one case.
I can think of two.
I think that the whole movie is far more compelling than any of the movies.
And not to discredit your movie, The Program, which is excellent.
Yeah.
And phenomenon, but like all these movies that are just like dudes in suits from Washington talking about this stuff, to me, like there's an irony to it where it's like most folks distrust the authority of the government, right?
Like if you look at the history of the United States, it's spotty to say the least with all the wars and everything like that.
But like the irony of this whole disclosure movement is that the same people that distrust the government are looking to the government to give us the truth about this, which is why I find your story far more compelling and these people that are actually like on the ground and living in.
Brazil and neurosurgeons and all these like normal, these real humans, real people with real lives who have nothing to gain from going on camera and talking about this.
And I went to Brazil three times last year, meeting with their wives, their family members, their daughters, like getting to know each other, going to like piano bars and playing music and singing together, just getting to know each other on a human level, right?
Developing that level of trust.
And I put out a video.
I didn't give it to your guy.
I put out a video.
This was about maybe a week or two after the trailer dropped, and word was getting out that Itala was coming forward, the head neurosurgeon.
Everybody in the town knows the guy.
He's a prominent doctor for 40 whatever years.
And he was getting messed with.
They were threatening to take his job away.
Things were getting precarious.
He was scared.
And I was like, okay, I need to back this guy up.
I need to back this guy up.
And I basically put out a video, which spread like wildfire all over the Virginia, right?
I mean, I got the mayor.
I'm working with the mayor now, former chief of police.
And that video was basically like, hey, you know, even if you don't believe him, that's fine.
I'm not asking you to believe him.
I completely understand your level of skepticism, but respect this individual who's dedicated his life to helping people.
He's ran three different hospitals, he's the lead neurosurgeon.
And by the way, if any military personnel are considering paying him a visit, and I was serious as a heart attack when I said this, I will dedicate the rest of my life.
To find out who you are and expose you guys because that's, I want people to know that I've got their backs.
I'm not just out there trying to make a quick buck off their story.
I've got their back to the day he's dead.
And he knows that.
And I put that video out.
We had a screening just a couple of weeks ago with the mayor.
Oh, a whole room was packed.
I got video.
Amar was there with Yes Siri.
He filmed the whole thing.
And I had a couple of people come up to me and witnesses.
And they said, when we saw that video of you, like, When we saw that video of you having his back, it was like you had all of our backs.
So I was just like, you know, I was like, that's so there's that trust, you know what I'm saying?
That trust has to happen.
And it's like, you know, and getting in with their families, I can't even describe to you guys what it's like.
I'm like, this shit happened.
Yeah.
My God, this stuff happened.
And I think there's more.
Now we found, we have a couple names of people that were at Humanitas Hospital.
They're not quite ready to come forward yet, but we'll see what happens.
The 30th anniversary is January 20th, coincidentally, the same date as the event at the National Press Club.
Yes.
That was not a coincidence.
That's funny.
There are a lot of New Year's resolutions that start in the kitchen.
And I'll tell you from experience the easier the cooking experience, the more likely you are to keep it up.
FOIA Request Denied00:07:12
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What has been the response from about this whole investigation on Varginia to these big wig folks in Washington?
That are like all about disclosure, disclosure, disclosure.
Well, here's the interesting thing is just trying to get people to watch the film.
Yeah.
Because it's almost like it can't be, therefore it isn't.
And I just say to people, like, don't take it from me.
Just watch the movie and draw your own conclusions.
Like, to me, because you have all these allegations at the highest levels, Age of Disclosure just came out with Dan Farah and Lou Elizondo and stuff like that.
And I get it.
It's guys in suits, part of the.
It's good.
It's well done.
It's very good.
Beautifully polished and it's high level.
And the statements made at the highest levels are, let's say, they're compelling, man.
Like, wow, why would these guys say all this stuff?
Why would Clapper say that?
Why would, you know, Marco Rubio and Gillibrand and what's that, Senator Rounds?
And I mean, they're, you know, it's pretty incredible, right?
But you don't have that case, right?
Because it's like you've got allegations of crash retrieval.
Mm hmm.
And all the implications and the technology, yada, yada, yada.
Now you have a case.
And this case didn't happen in the United States.
This happened in Brazil.
Now it involved the US, and we didn't learn that till late into the game.
I didn't.
I never suspected I was going to find out the Americans flew in and grabbed everything.
And in fact, at one point, I remember this reporter asking me, and I didn't know, hey, why is it the Americans can just fly in and grab whatever they want?
I have no idea.
And they asked to some intelligence folks completely involved with the legacy crash retrieval program.
And they responded to this individual and they said, Because we can.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because we can.
Yeah.
They have their ways.
They have their ways of making shit happen in South American countries.
Look what just happened in Venezuela.
Right.
Exactly.
Right.
Yeah.
They can do a snatch and grab anywhere they want, man.
Because they can.
And it's so funny, too, because honestly, with our FOIA request, I kind of thought that we're going to yield some results.
I mean, why not?
It's just a flight log.
Hey, nothing to see here, right?
Just a flight log.
Yeah.
So explain the background of this FOIA request for folks who aren't familiar.
Okay, so I got contacted, I don't know, a couple of months after the first version of Moment of Contact came out.
And I knew it was going to be an ongoing investigation.
Like you put a film out and more people come forward, and, you know, things people start to retire.
They get a, they get a that twilight years in their life.
I don't want to take this to the grave.
My grandchildren should know about this.
Anyway, this guy reached out to me and he was like, excuse me, I could wipe my nose here.
His guy reached out to me and he was super duper like knowledgeable on air traffic and flight logs and locations and tail numbers and.
Finally, one day after we were going back and forth anonymously for a couple of months, I was like, Excuse me, who are you?
He goes, I actually am an Air Force colonel.
I'm retired, blah, blah, blah.
He goes, But I'm telling you right now, if we can get those tail numbers, because we have a photograph, but the tail numbers were kind of blurred.
Oh, really?
Yeah, we had a photograph.
I put it out there a while ago.
I don't think I made it into either cut of the film because we were doing background on it.
But anyway, he made the suggestion.
He goes, Put a FOIA request out.
So there was an individual that was, I was getting in contact with a lot of people.
Hey, how can I help?
I really want to help with this case.
I said, Hey, we need to organize.
A FOIA request.
So we filed a FOIA in 2022 and we said we want all the flight logs of United States Air Force planes because we got word from the, I don't know if you call them a flight control officer, someone who monitors incoming flights into the state of Brazil in a particular region.
And anything, any flight that comes into Brazil that wants to land has to have authorization from the Brazilian government.
There has to be that.
And this plane came in, according to the flight control officer that was on duty that night, and he happened to come clean.
On the left, yeah, that thank you.
That, that, yes, thank you.
Oh, good job, Steve.
Look at that.
That's the plane, and we're trying to blow that up bigger.
So, we were trying to get the tail numbers, we were trying to get you know, match the area to see if that was Campinas in 1996.
Like, we're trying to do all this research.
The person whose finger it is is a Brazilian person, and we've been contacted anonymously, but I, I can, we couldn't reach him.
Sometimes people would say they have more information, and you think, okay, you're on to something.
I don't know if they get cold feet.
If they were lying, whatever.
But anyway, so we filed this FOIA request in 2022.
And we just wanted the flight logs.
And I figured, well, let me give it a wide window.
So I think I went from like February 10th.
Zoom out a little.
I'm sorry, January 10th, 1996, to January 28th, 1996.
And it took three years to get a response, but the response came from the CIA.
It's in the movie.
Yeah, the response came from the CIA basically saying How many years later?
Three.
Yeah.
Which is a red flag, right?
I thought so.
When you send it to one agency and the CIA responds three years later.
I thought so.
And they were like, Your request is denied, you know, 1949 National Security Act, blah, blah, blah.
And therefore, your request is denied.
We can neither confirm nor deny those records.
And then, you know, according to the 1949, you know, National Security Act, whatever, therefore, your request is denied.
It's in the movie.
That's crazy.
I don't know, man.
It just seems so crazy.
So, on a Black Hawk helicopter.
Well, I heard that that's what.
So when we interviewed the former chief of police, and by the way, getting to him was a story.
National Security Act Denial00:15:36
And he just died.
Oh, no.
Yeah, he just died.
He just died.
He was old?
Pedro.
Pedro.
Foul play?
Aguadillar.
He apparently.
Well, we went after him because of a photograph.
But we didn't know that he too was a firsthand witness.
We were going after him for years.
And he was like a bar of soap in the bathtub.
Because, you know, people are.
Conflicted about coming forward.
They know the implications, they know the risks, you know, even in the community.
Forget about the risk within the military and all that stuff.
Even with the community, oh, you're the UFO guy or you're the one that sees aliens.
Nobody wants that in their life.
It's not a career enhancing move.
But we've been going after him for a while.
We thought we were going to get him in the first cut of moment of contact.
And again, borrowed soap in the bathtub.
And then ultimately, and he was like, okay, we'll come to my house.
Oh, no, don't come to my house.
And we had his address.
We'd go to his house.
There wasn't anybody there.
We kept doing this for year after year after year.
And then finally, last year, I think it was January of last year.
We were going to his house, Pedro Aguirre.
And I talked to him via Zoom calls in the past years ago.
He did not deny having that photograph at the time.
We were going to his house, and I think it was like maybe five o'clock in the evening.
And we were on our way to go to Virginia, and I had my whole crew with me.
And somehow somebody needed to go to the bathroom on our team.
Could have been me, I don't know.
And we stopped at this little pizzeria.
And the individual that ran it spoke a little English, and he was like, You know, we were clearly foreigners coming in with all this gear and stuff.
And he's like, Oh, sit down and I'll make you pizzas.
And we make, I'm not even supposed to be on the owner.
I just happen to be working tonight.
And he insisted, and everyone's like, We got to go.
We got to go meet Pedro.
And Pedro doesn't, like, we're just going to doorstep him, right?
We're just going to show up.
And I was like, You know what?
Let's sit down and let's have a pizza with this guy.
So we all, so he makes us his fresh pizza, and we take a, Completely unannounced, like one hour, one and a half hour pause at this restaurant and just had a lovely dinner.
We had a glass of wine.
We hung out with the owner.
It was beautiful.
It was really fun.
But it put us in later than we should have been.
But it just happened that way.
So then we drive, probably 7 30, 7 45, something like this, I'm going to guess.
And we show up at Sullen Film.
We show up at Pedro's house, the former chief of police.
Seven hours?
No, sorry.
It was, I want to say seven o'clock.
Clock.
Okay.
Okay.
We were in the area when we stopped for pizza.
Okay.
I see.
And we weren't even going to stop for pizza.
I think it was like a bathroom break or something.
Anyway, we ended up having pizza.
I think it was like a 90 minute stop.
We show up at his house.
He had just arrived 10 minutes earlier.
So, had we come earlier, we would have missed him altogether.
Absolutely perfect.
Yeah.
So, Marco goes first, right?
He's very disarming and he's Brazilian.
And Marco starts talking to him a little bit.
And the chief of police's son was there.
I think his son is like 11 or 12 years old.
And Chopping it up with him a little bit, and I'm off in the distance.
I'm looking over, like, Oh my god, he's here!
Yes, you know.
So then I eventually kind of called her, I was like, Oh, well, you know, why don't you come in?
You know, come on in, and invites us in.
I think one of us had a mic on us just so we could pick up the audio.
Um, and then the audio guy was in the car monitoring, and then I, and then my DP Dave West was like, Oh, I want to come in.
I was like, Hold off, let's just let's just feel things out a little bit here.
So we start talking.
And talking to him, and we're just like, you know, just getting to know him a little bit.
He knew me because I'd done a Zoom call with him a couple years earlier, and we'd also talked to him over the phone in 2021 when we were shooting the first version of Moment of Contact.
And I think I eventually just said, Hey, would you mind if we brought a camera in just to kind of, you know, just a little, you know, capture a little?
You know, okay.
Yeah, sure.
Okay.
Just eased it in.
Here comes Dave.
Come on, Dave.
And, um, Start filming a little bit.
Now, his wife was like, he eventually went from the table over to the couch, and his son was sitting at this little table to the right.
If you're looking at the couch, it was to the right, and his wife was sitting at the table with his son.
His wife had eyeballs.
I've never seen her eyeballs.
I remember seeing like there were two eyeballs that I looked into never before in life.
One was one was Eric Lopes who allegedly drove the alien and hers and she was looking at her husband.
She was sitting here looking that way.
She's looking at her husband like fucking I thought her eyeballs were going to come out of her head and I kept looking at Dave.
I went, get her eyeballs, get her eyeballs.
Like film.
I don't know what she was telling him.
Like you shut your mouth or are you going to reveal all or do we have this photograph?
I don't know.
I don't know.
But she's looking at him.
And we just kept talking, you know.
And then he starts giving an interview.
And then he's like, I participated.
And then he's like, Yeah.
It just starts coming out.
It starts coming out, dude.
And we ask him on camera, Why are you coming out now?
He goes, Because I trust you.
You're doing this investigation.
Like my film had already come out previously.
Everyone in that town's heard of you at this point.
Everyone in the town's heard of the film or me.
And he starts talking.
And then he's like, Yeah, I saw the creature.
It had a blanket over it, but I went into it as a military base.
And everything that he said that he saw it as a military base, Is exactly lined up perfectly with every other tidbit of testimony that we've ever heard.
Wow.
All the activity, the helicopters, and then he's like, Campinas, and then the Americans came.
Like the chief of police told us that.
He goes, I got to the military base.
He goes, I've never seen so much brass in my life.
And brass was like high level military officials, helicopters coming and going.
He's like, yeah, man, landing.
Who is it?
Clinton was the president then?
Clinton was the president back then.
Yeah, I know.
God would know.
It's like, I mean, he probably was kept out of the loop.
I'm guessing.
I don't know.
You know, speaking of Clinton, when I was investigating the Phoenix Lights case that happened in March 13th, 1997, the 90s were pretty radical, man.
We had some crazy shit going on.
Rua?
Oh, yeah.
We had Rua in 94.
Then we had Vargenia in 96.
We had the massive flyover, Phoenix Lights in 97, March.
Wasn't there also a lot of like abduction claims in the 90s?
You know, abductions are things that I've always kept at arm's length.
I'm not sure.
I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, I. Like, whether you believe them or not, oh, yeah, no, I'm not saying I do.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, well, for sure, like John Mack was going strong, yeah.
Uh, Bud Hopkins was going strong, you know.
You had the very, very early 90s, I think it was 89, 90, 91.
You had all the Belgian stuff that was going on, those big platforms, size of a football field, yeah.
Um, that was all happening, but in any case, I was investigating the take a little detour for a second.
I was investigating the Bejiza out of the Phoenix Lights case, I was going back and forth for 10 years.
I got the governor come forward, and um.
Evidently, okay, so I was at a barbecue and I always like, you know, five signing.
I hate to give away my little five signing.
No, that was, this would be four or five.
Okay, okay.
And I'm at this, I'm hanging out at this party I got invited to, and it was a barbecue.
And this girl knew what I was doing, investigating the case.
And she looks at me and she goes, see that guy over there?
And I was like, yeah, and I saw him over by the barbecue.
She goes, he was, she was at Luke Air Force Base that night.
And you might want to talk to him.
And he looked at me and I was like, so I was like, dooty, dooty, dooty, walked over to him, started asking him questions and he was just like, zip, like not saying a word.
Really?
No, he was just looked at me like, you just like go away.
So anyway, so I stayed at the party.
And this will be relevant in a second with Clinton because something weird went on with him that night.
It was March 13th, 1997.
And remember, everyone was out under the night sky to get a glimpse of the Hellbomb Comet, right?
And I see him drinking beers.
He's drinking beers.
And that's a good sign, right?
He's got like a barbecue or he's drinking beers.
I'm just watching him drink beers.
Yeah.
A couple hours later.
Keep pounding him, buddy.
Keep pounding him, buddy.
I'm on my way.
You know?
A couple hours later, I walk over to him and I start talking.
He goes, I was at Luke Air Force Base that night.
And I was like, oh my God, what did you see?
He goes, well, let's put it this way.
It's a certain DEFCOM, and I'm sorry to your audience that's way more well versed than this.
He went to, he said, we went to full DEFCOM 2, I think it was.
It was one or two.
It was wherein you have a full blown invasion.
Like when you have, they scrambled all their jets, you got an unidentified.
It has to be treated as hostile because it's not identifying itself.
And it's this massive.
And he was like, they scrambled military jets to go after.
And we went to a certain, I didn't know what DEFCOM meant.
But he was like, we went to DEFCOM.
Oh, here we go.
DEFCOM 2.
DEF CON 2 is fast paced armed forces, six hours or less to deploy and engage near nuclear war.
Yeah.
DEF CON 1 means nuclear war is imminent.
So it's one step below imminent nuclear war.
Exactly.
DEF CON 2.
I'm pretty damn sure he said DEF CON 2.
Thank you.
I really appreciate that first time I looked at that.
But I didn't know what the hell he was talking about.
So, and then coincidentally, I think I might have talked about it on a podcast.
I don't know.
And nothing included in my film Out of the Blue.
And I did another film about it.
I know what I saw, which covered that case and the governor.
And the governor even admitted that they screwed.
They scrambled jets.
Oh, I heard that.
That the pilot I think he was flying an F-16 at Luke Air Force Base maybe there was two that went after it that it was so big that they could have landed on it what, yes?
And that the pilot had to be lifted out of the cockpit.
So what I heard after the?
I guess he scrambled it to go get it and it took off like warp speed, like something out of Star Wars.
So, and the governor Five Simon, also told me they took a run at it, that they scrambled jets and took a run at it, And the Pentagon, Luke Air Force Base, all told me they have no idea what that object was.
What does that mean they could run at it?
They scrambled jets, tried to intercept it.
Oh, I see.
But so then I found out that Clinton was, I don't know if he was playing golf or he was doing something.
You can look it up.
That he suddenly got grabbed on an island somewhere.
He got plucked off, whatever the hell he was doing that night on the 13th of March, 1997.
And I guess if you go to DEF CON 2, the president would have to be notified.
You'd have to look it up.
But that's just a weird little thing.
You know, you had 96 in Virginia, evidently involving the Americans.
Did Clinton find out?
Don't know.
But if we did go to DEF COM 2, and that guy was telling me the truth at Luke Air Force Base, then we went to DEF COM 2, and Clinton, I guess the president of the United States, would have to be notified.
Look it up, Google it.
So this is the same night as the Phoenix Lights?
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, it was March 13th, 1997.
So if I recall correctly, Virginia was 96.
If I recall correctly, the night of the Phoenix Lights, people recalled seeing these like boomerang shaped.
Yeah.
Lights, right?
Like these boomerang shaped objects with lights underneath them.
I interviewed a guy named Mike Fortson.
He was a great witness.
He's in my film, Out of the Blue, which you can watch for free online.
But he's like, No, I'm going to call it the Phoenix Lights.
I'm sick and tired of the Phoenix.
Why are they calling it the Phoenix Lights?
I said, Mike, why are you so hostile?
What's going on?
He goes, It wasn't lights, dude.
It was a massive craft.
I saw it with my own eyes.
I watched it with my wife for minutes.
So it was one?
Well, there were a bunch of different sightings that night.
It was, there were balls.
There were, They were boomerang shaped, but the one boomerang shaped one that caught my attention the most that all the witnesses that I talked to that saw this craft, including the governor of Five Simon, said it was so big it had to be from another world.
And I said, well, how do you know that?
This is the one they said he could land his jet on.
Yes.
And that was a boomerang shape.
It was like a big, massive boomerang.
Okay.
And it was like this and moving very slowly.
I interviewed a whole family Stacy Rhodes, her daughter Emily, Mike Fortson, his wife, and then a whole family of three people, and their name escapes me right now.
But in any case, they were like lying on their back, you know, 7 30, 6 30, 7 30 p.m.
And they go, dude, it looked like a floating city.
I was lying on my back on the front lawn and I could see compartments and metal and structure.
Really?
Swear to God, man.
Yeah.
Go watch I Know What I Saw or Out of the Blue.
And they said they could see.
He goes, I thought it was going to land at the Sky Harbor Airport.
Like it was so low and so slow.
It was just.
I interviewed these hospice workers.
I think there were five of them.
I'm trying to remember the mountain range right near where they lived.
But in any case.
Oh, they were on the mountain.
So they were really close.
They were right at the base because it flew right over this.
Particular mountain, oh, it'll come to me, but anyway, I interviewed all these hospice workers, and this is funny actually because they all saw they were out having tea, and I don't know what time it was maybe it was seven o'clock, 7 30, whatever late in the afternoon, early evening.
And uh, and um, they said they were like, Well, had we not looked up, we wouldn't have even known it was there.
I mean, it just floated so silently right over our heads, and we watched it for several minutes.
We stopped our jaws on the ground, like, and they just floated right over, and we were all just like.
And then it passes overhead, and they go right back to having tea.
And I went, Excuse me, you didn't like go grab a camera, call 911, jump in your car, chase after it?
They're like, Nope.
And I thought to myself, It's almost like ontological shock.
Like certain people have certain experiences where they just go, That can't, that did, they can't even process it, right?
Because who in their right mind.
Would have a see something like that and not go crazy, right?
Right.
And one of the women, the family members I interviewed, all the kids, there were three kids and the wife, and the husband was on the phone and she was screaming at him, like, get off the phone, get out here.
And he wouldn't, he was like, I'm on the phone, no, get out here.
So the whole family, except for the husband, all sat there for several minutes watching this thing float right over them.
And these hospice workers, like, they just said, we went right back to having tea, which is the oddest thing.
Like, I, I can't wrap my mind around it.
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That's wild.
But I think about it this way you got David Grush.
You could believe him or you don't believe him.
That's fine.
Right, he delivered at times the daily briefing to the president of the United States, high level intelligence officer.
Again, you can believe him, you can think he's crazy, it's all fine.
All the smartest people I know on this topic they all say he's super legit, yeah.
So, and some people just say that okay, whatever, it doesn't matter, but he made some extraordinary allegations under oath to a bipartisan group of lawmakers.
Okay, don't you think the media should pick that ball up and run with it?
I mean, what happens, right?
What happens when Somebody makes allegations of sexual Pelcadillos with a president.
Dude, it's all hands on deck.
Look at what happened with Trump.
Look at what happened with Clinton.
I mean, my God, that investigation, I would live through that.
That investigation went on for like years.
The whole media, they must have put millions of dollars, the prosecutor, all that stuff over allegations of inappropriate sexual whatever.
Okay.
My point is at least do some deep digging or perhaps we lobby together.
To provide a platform for the likes of David Grush and others, and you don't have to believe Lou, and you don't have to believe Hal, and you don't have to believe Eric Davis, and you don't have to believe Grush.
But what about this?
What about we lobby the executive branch and provide some level of immunity so they can testify under oath, not in a skiff, because everyone's frustrated, everyone's had it with The SCIFs, right?
It's the people.
How about we create a platform that enables them to give the specific details to the public, to the world?
Right?
That's what we should be focused on.
Hey, let's call their bluff.
I think you're full of shit.
Fair enough.
All right.
What do we got to do, Mr. President?
You want transparency in government?
You want transparency in UAP?
Dude, it's the most popular thing out there.
Everyone would love to know that it's real.
Right?
And of course, I happen to just so happen to believe David Grush or his claims because I'm out there in the field learning about this stuff.
Right.
Right?
That's one of the things that I wanted to kind of cover.
Wasn't he stripped of his retirement?
Oh, yeah.
He had to, yeah.
He had to, yeah.
He had, Yeah.
Right.
I don't know if it was a year before.
It's probably just making shit up, you know?
Yeah.
But my point is.
Worth losing his entire retirement.
My point is, is that let's not believe them, but let's chase it down.
Why not?
The implications are so profound.
Why wouldn't we follow that up?
Why wouldn't we dedicate some resources to those allegations?
Why wouldn't we find the old ICIG, Thomas Monheim?
Here's my thing.
Pin him up against the wall.
How about subpoena him?
He's got all the details.
Right.
Here's my thing.
Do you see what I'm saying?
Yeah.
So, your interview with Eric Davis in your movie, in your new movie, you're sitting there talking to him and he's like, I've seen all this stuff.
I've been in the skips.
I've seen all the classified stuff, but I can't tell you because I swore no, blah, blah, blah.
But he said, I swear on my daughter's beating heart or something like that.
He said, He swear on his children's lives.
So, that this stuff is real.
And then he said, Mr. President, if you wave the magic wand and give me immunity and I'm subpoenaed, I'll testify under oath to a bipartisan group of lawmakers and I'll give all those details.
So, here's the crazy hypothetical.
So, we should do that.
Here's a crazy hypothetical.
Yeah.
James, I saw.
Saucers in hangars, and we have 18 captured alien bodies that are in our custody in Florida, New Mexico, Ohio, wherever.
And he just, now what?
Now they're going to come arrest him and send him to prison?
So imagine that.
Imagine he says that on your documentary and the next day they throw him in prison.
What is that going to say to the public, right?
If you're the president or you're the DOJ or the CIA and that comes out on a DVD or not on a DVD, but on Amazon the next day.
The first person who does it is going to have balls of steel.
Like, of course it's risky, but like imagine you're on, put the shoe on the other foot.
Yeah.
Imagine you're the government or whoever it is.
You're the gatekeeper.
You're the gatekeeper.
Is it a great idea to throw Eric Davis in prison or whack him?
I don't think so.
Well, at the very least, he'd be stripped of all of his clearances and be out of a job.
At the very least.
Is he still employed?
Yeah, he's got high level clearances to this day.
He still works for them.
He works for.
I don't know if I can reveal who he works for.
Oh, okay.
He has high level clearances to this day.
He'd be out of a job.
At the very least.
Right, okay.
But I've also heard that they can.
Because it's a national security issue, they can pluck you up without due process and put you right behind bars.
I've heard that.
Right, right.
But I mean, it would certainly validate what he's saying.
If they did that, like.
Absolutely.
I agree.
Yeah.
I agree.
But wouldn't it be better to do it the more legit route?
And also.
I don't know.
I think.
I don't know.
But hold on.
Because, you know, some of these guys are patriots and they were like, there are certain justifications for secrecy that I agree with.
Like, let's just imagine whether you believe it or you don't believe it, okay?
Let's just say that we did have recovered craft.
Of non human origin, right?
And we've been collecting that since the 40s, perhaps even earlier.
So, whatever's flying around in our airspace, those well documented UAP and UFO reports dating back forever, those things exhibit a technology that fly rings around any shit we've got.
Our leading military jets, these things fly, make a mockery out of them.
I mean, talk to Dave Fravor or talk to William Coleman, he was a former United States Air Force World War II pilot.
He saw a flying saucer back in 1955.
Talk to all these, it's all parallel.
The technology exhibited is light years than anything we got.
Let's just say that's real.
And let's say we recovered that technology.
Now, I'm not saying that we've successfully reverse engineered it.
I have no idea.
But if they have it, and if they are trying to reverse engineer it, I don't know about you, but I damn straight wouldn't want Russia or China to get their hands on that technology and reverse engineer it because they put a bomb on it and it's game over for us.
So I could see that.
I don't agree with it.
But I could see that being a legit reason for national security on the technology.
Maybe it's the admission that we have it and we share the bodies, the biologics.
Do you see what I'm saying?
Totally.
Because that shouldn't be a national security issue.
That, that I feel every man, woman, and child should be entitled to on the planet.
Because remember, disclosure doesn't just have implications for the United States citizens.
This would reverberate around the world because the implications are global and profound.
Yes.
Right?
And so, and you know what?
Quite honestly, like, You know, people often ask me why I do what I do.
And I usually ask them, like, hey, if this were true and if this happened and if the government had definitive proof that we're not alone, would you like to know?
Right.
And everyone goes, damn straight, I would.
I should be entitled to know.
Yeah.
And they're doing it with our taxpayer dollars.
Like, come on, man, give us a bone.
And when I was in, I got invited to Arrow.
Evidence They Wanted To Show00:16:05
Did you know that?
No.
Oh, my God.
It was like so crazy.
So, I can't go into the reason why I ended up in the arrow.
Excuse me for wiping my nose, but I can't tell you exactly that because they asked me not to.
But I was going in to look at a specific case that I'm familiar with.
I reported on it a bunch of times.
And they had some evidence they wanted to show me.
And I had to get like 48 hour background screening.
And I got major going through like, and I had to get an approval, this little pass, which I have a photograph.
How recent was this?
About a year ago.
A little over a year ago.
Yeah.
So after Kirkpatrick.
Yeah, it was in December of, I think it was December of 2024.
So it was a little over a year ago because it was December.
And I, and I, I go into, well, they had to do a background check.
Then I had to show up and it was escort required.
Then I got this little badge.
Then I walked through, I happened to be flying home after that because I was going from my hotel.
Then I went to the Pentagon, just next to the Pentagon.
And I met somebody in a parking lot.
They walked me through the parking lot.
They took me in all these doors.
And then I had to go through security.
They combed through everything.
And I had everything on me because I was traveling.
I was going back home afterwards.
So I had to go through all my bag and all my affairs.
Finally, get my stuff.
And then I walked through this.
It was like Star Trek.
It was like a glass tube.
I'd say about that.
I want to say about maybe that big around, maybe seven or eight feet tall, or maybe it went up higher.
And one end opened like that.
You step inside, only one person at a time.
And then that closes.
And then the other one opens.
I don't know what they did.
I don't know what.
I got scanned.
I don't know what happened.
Then I walked in there.
And then I had to go to a locker with an escort, guy in a suit, just like you'd expect, like a man in black kind of guy, right?
Very cordial.
Go to a locker, and I had to get rid of all my electronics, everything.
I had to take everything off and put my phone, everything inside there.
And then we go up to this big door, just like a bank vault kind of thing.
Opens up.
The entire office complex was a skiff.
The whole thing was.
And they take me inside there, and I'm thinking, this is so fucking strange, man.
Can't even believe I'm in here.
And I'm thinking to myself, God, is this a good idea?
Like, you know, I don't know.
It just felt a little spooky, but I was like, oh, they're people.
You know, I'm just going to treat them like people.
And we go down this hallway.
All these cubicles and stuff, and go down a hallway, and there was a door to my right that was closed and a door to my left that was open.
And he's like, Wait here, I'll be right back.
He goes off, and I have his name, but I'm not going to even do it.
He was Air Force Office of Special Investigations, OSI.
And I look inside the door, and not that far away, I don't know, six, seven feet, was a little table, and there were a bunch of people, I think a couple of girls, a couple of guys, having a conversation, all nicely dressed.
And I couldn't help myself.
I'm like, What else am I doing?
I'm just sitting there.
And the brain has this uncanny ability to like almost like, Turn a little, you know what I mean?
Like, like, yeah.
And I just start eavesdropping on the conversation.
I was like, just kind of curious.
Are these guys part of Arrow 2?
Like, what's, you know?
And I'm like, fully tuning into their conversation.
And then one of them looks over at me, gets up, grabs the door, closes it in my face.
I was like, I kind of look like, sorry, what am I supposed to do here?
So, anyway, so then this individual comes back, opens up the door, gets in there, and there's a computer.
Right there, it was a computer, and I wish I could remember the name of the access point, but it was Intel folks that told me where the high res photos and videos were.
It was that computer.
Damn it, it's in the program.
I'm sorry, I can't remember.
Oh, there's like a special computer that has access to all the top secret shit.
Yes, and I was told by Intel folks that had been on by multiple Intel folks, and it was that it was right there.
I was looking at it, and he was like, Oh, what's that?
You know, he goes, Oh, that's the skips DOM or whatever the hell it's called.
I'm sorry, I can't remember.
I'm sorry.
Start like showing me some footage and stuff.
And I was like, What if he said, James, I'll let you have this computer alone in here for one hour?
Yeah.
But on one condition, you have to stop all of your investigations and all your documentaries moving forward.
I wouldn't do it.
You wouldn't do it?
No, I wouldn't do it.
You're a good man.
Not for all the money in the world.
Yeah.
But so then the other, John Kosklowski, the new head of Arrow, he comes in.
I got to be honest with you, I was a little nervous, you know, but then I was like, I'm a public figure in some respects, like, not like I'm hiding what I'm doing.
So I was like, guys, like, you know, you got to throw us a bone here because the public's frustrated and you're not putting the genie back in the bottle.
Like, and I started rattling off cases, and one of them was like, you know, James, it's kind of funny.
Your documentary, The Phenomenon, is mandatory viewing for anyone who's going to work for Arrow.
No way.
I was like, that's fine.
That's pretty damn cool.
Right.
That's awesome.
And then I started talking about Rua, Socorro, close encounters of the third kind, because it's one thing to talk about unknown objects in the air, like the tic-tac or whatever.
But when you start talking about beings on the ground, right?
It's a different story, man.
It's a whole other level.
That's one of the things that doesn't get addressed often enough.
And I tell people all the time because it's like, you know, you got close encounters of the first, second, and third kind.
And that was not something that just came from the public.
That came internally from the scientific advisor that was working with the Air Force.
They were documenting close encounters of the third kind in the 50s.
Right.
And they were putting it off as like psychological.
I think they were writing it off psychological.
The person's batshit crazy.
Don't look at it.
Psychological.
And that changed with Socorro in 64.
But then I said, like, people aren't going away.
We're having these hearings.
Like, you know, you guys are going to come to the determination, if you haven't already, that some of these represent a non human intelligence.
Like, what's going on?
And John looks at me, John Kosklowski, the new head of Arrow.
And he goes, he goes, James, I can't part my own hair without approval from the DOD.
And you can quote me on that.
He was basically telling me, dude, my hands are tied.
It doesn't matter what I determine, it doesn't matter what I uncover.
And I've had other members that I have to remain nameless.
That's so weird because I'm meeting with these people now.
Kind of not surprising.
And people think I'm crazy.
Like, you know, look, like, well, I get accused.
I go, James is a spook.
He's working.
I'm like, oh my God.
Come on, man.
I've been doing this since I was in my 20s.
Everyone's a spook, dude.
I'm not a spook.
Like, come on, I share everything publicly that I possibly can.
Yeah.
And the only reason why I don't share other things, because if I violated the trust with some of the people that I've met with and the shit that I've heard, dude, okay, like, you know, I've heard some stuff, right?
Yeah.
If I said, I even asked one time, can I say I heard it anonymously?
Mm mm.
Mm mm.
They'll know exactly who it came from.
So the stuff that I've heard.
Yeah.
And, and, uh, well, I can, can I transition to one more thing?
Yes.
Okay, so I'm talking to another insider and, like, why not?
Why can't I have a seat at the table?
Like, what is it going to hurt?
I'm not going to stop doing what I'm doing.
I'm not going to, like, I'm never going to just not reveal what I possibly can, the maximum amount I can possibly reveal to the general public.
I will always do that and I'll be straight with you guys.
And I don't get it right sometimes.
I get criticized about Jason Sands.
Do you have any idea?
I forgot about that.
Do you have any idea the level of background check I did on him?
I got his full military records.
I contacted his ex wife and had to pay her to go up in the attic and dig through 30 different boxes to get all his photographs from when he was in the military.
This is the guy who claims he saw the blue alien and then they went down.
They were told to like fight him or something.
Whatever.
I don't know.
Some crazy stuff.
I remember they were on Rogan, him and the other dude.
Yeah.
So, so let me just tell you.
I did everything I could.
I accidentally exposed him.
It was stupid, my mistake.
I did it.
So, initially, I just, he wasn't even going to be in the movie.
I did, like, I met him with people that I trust.
But hey, man, we're all fallible.
We're humans and we're dealing with some pretty crazy shit these days.
Yeah.
And they're like, I know this is his records checkout.
I met with people on the inside that had been in with a skiff with him.
I can't reveal their names.
They were like, Look, man, I know he has PTSD and I know this, but he's named specific special access programs dealing with the legacy UAP crash retrieval stuff.
Sans guy was.
Yes, he was like, knew the names.
I got in trouble just for asking about those names.
He knew this, locations.
He's who he says he is.
However, he's got PTSD.
I don't know what's happened to his mind.
There's some stuff embedded.
I even talked to some people about it.
Was there specific memories that were implanted in him?
I don't know, man.
I don't know.
What I do know is I have the names of the other witnesses out there.
I did due diligence on his background check.
I contacted his ex wife and I paid because she wasn't responding.
I said, I'll pay you to go up there and dig through those boxes hourly.
And I said, You come up with, you know, I need his photographs.
I need photographs of him out there.
And I got them all.
And I put them in the movie.
And I did his military back.
And if one time.
Which movie was this in?
The program.
This was in the program.
Okay.
Okay.
You can watch it free online on YouTube movies.
So, and Moment of Contact New Revelations of Alien Encounters.
I will also make that available for free on YouTube movies once I pay back all my investors.
I will.
I've got my word on that.
But for now, it's on Amazon linked below for you to find it.
Yeah.
So, what was I getting at?
And look, you know, and then he starts coming out with some crazier stuff.
And I wasn't there.
I don't have the clearances.
Sounds crazy to me.
And I told him.
I was like, just so you know, I wasn't there.
I didn't live your career.
I didn't serve the country like you did.
Right.
But what you're saying is discrediting a lot of people right now, including yourself.
Even if it's true, if I were you, I would keep it to myself.
And let me tell you why.
Do I believe in some abductions?
Yeah, I do.
Do you hear me out there talking about it publicly?
Never.
Just about never.
And you know why?
That's a slippery slope.
Well, yeah, it's a.
I imagine censoring myself because I know how that shit comes to be.
You don't want to poison the well.
If I told you what I really believed, the direction that I'm leaning in, in terms of the phenomenon, people would bring into question my credibility because I understand on the outside looking in, someone like myself.
I'm just Joe Public, man.
I'm just a civilian.
I'm just a curious dude with a camera.
And I just happen to have gotten into places somehow.
I don't know how the hell it worked out.
I work my ass off, I don't always get it right.
I try to get it right.
I would never deliberately report on something I didn't think was true, you know.
But, like, hey, if you want to badger me over some mistakes that I've made in my 30 plus years, I think I brought a lot more positive stuff to the table than I have anything else.
I'm not perfect, and I will own shit if I feel like I screwed up.
But what can I say, man?
What more can you do than that?
This is not an easy field.
That's all you can do.
That's all you can do.
That is all you can do.
And be honest, open, and honest about it, which you clearly are.
So, I even talked to Skeptic Magazine Michael Shermer the other day.
What?
Yeah, I went on his show and he's like, You're one of the only people from the.
I'm like, Dude, I'll have a dialogue with you.
Let's talk, man.
I'll chop it up with you.
Yeah.
Sure.
That's amazing, man.
You know, I mean, why not?
And it's like, I'll meet with skeptics.
I'll meet with, you know, there's so much mudslinging going on in this field.
If I listened to anybody, I wouldn't talk to anyone.
I wouldn't meet with anyone.
I wouldn't talk with anybody.
I feel like I need to stay in my lane.
I'm going to be kind to everybody because I believe in being kind.
Even if you disagree, you should be even kinder.
Okay.
People can disagree and that's fine.
You can disagree politically.
That's fine.
I'm really good friends with people on both sides of the fence.
We don't care.
They know how I might feel or how they feel.
We're friends.
Right.
Totally.
This is the way it should be.
It should be the same in this field.
Like, hey, man, you think it's.
Alien babies floating in Alpha Centauri.
Cool, dude.
All right.
Great.
We never went to the moon.
Okay.
I'm just saying, we're cool.
I'm good with it.
I just try to stay in my own lane.
I put out what I feel is the best information I can.
People go, we should look at aliens.
I don't know what crashed in Varginha, Brazil in 1996.
I'd love to know.
These beings that now I have five people, first hand witnesses, five of them.
All haven't seen the bean.
Actually, six.
The former chief of police saw it too under a tarp.
And oh, really?
Yeah, he just confessed that too.
And I have him on camera.
He just died.
But I was the only one that said he thought it was like a burned man.
Yeah.
And you'd mentioned Spielberg earlier.
No, no, that was Military X. Excuse me.
This stuff gives me.
Oh, that was Military X.
Okay.
Oh, yeah.
This is really good.
It's delicious, isn't it?
It's really good.
White rabbit, baby.
So getting back to what I was saying.
Yeah, right?
It's okay to say I don't know where these come from.
It's okay to say I don't know what the hell is going on.
It's okay to say that clearly sensory data, firsthand eyewitness testimony, photographic evidence has been come forward and there's clearly a phenomenon happening globally.
It's under intelligent control and it's okay to say we don't know where it's from.
I think it's okay because I don't know.
I'd like to know.
Oh, that's what I was going to tell you.
Sorry, got sidetracked.
So I was at the.
The screening, the premiere, the world premiere.
Well, I guess it wasn't the world premiere because that was in Texas, but it was one of the premieres on an aircraft carrier.
Oh, yes, for the Age of Disclosure.
He invited me to that and I couldn't make it because I had obligations with my kids.
But it sounded mate.
Yeah, yeah.
So I was there for that.
And there was an individual, which I probably shouldn't mention his name.
You'll probably figure it out.
Probably shouldn't.
But we were, you know, we talked briefly at the beginning of the screening.
And then there was a QA afterwards, which I attended.
It was great.
And it's an accomplishment, man.
Look, I'd love to say that I've got how many was it?
34 high level military and government intelligence officials.
That's an accomplishment, man, period.
And to listen to what they say, I mean, most of what they said aligns with my field research.
But anyway, afterwards, there was a little cocktail party and they had little finger food, whatever.
I always hang out for those because you never know what you're going to get.
And I see Leslie Keene.
Across the way, and there were like guys from the CIA, these guys are from the agency.
And a little side story so we're at the premiere, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So we're like at the premiere, and Leslie's hanging out with these dudes in suits.
I same kind of suits that it looked like part of the UAP task force.
So when I went into the SCIF with that's what they look like, you know, those perfect suits, just perfect short haircut, you know, the type, yeah, exactly what you'd expect, yeah.
So I'm looking at these guys, and I'm looking at her, and she's like, Hey, this is these guys are from the agency, and I was like, Oh, cool, really nice to meet you guys.
And we're like talking, Yeah, it would be cool if I Be nice to everybody, like, yeah, we know what I'm doing.
So we start talking, and then I go, Yeah, man, because I did this film about this alleged UFO crash in Brazil.
And the guy goes, Oh, no, we know all about it.
Telepathic Communication00:04:47
We've been following you for years.
We knew your browser history from this morning, brother.
For years.
I was just like, I got a little spooked, a little weirded out, but then I was like, Whatever, because what I'm doing is public.
Why wouldn't they be curious?
So anyway, so I did that.
Then I left and I went to get a drink at the bar, which is like, I don't know, 30 feet away, 20 feet, 30 feet.
I'm at the bar.
And I see this individual from the DIA that I've always wanted to talk to.
And I'd met with this individual before, but.
Very guarded.
And I saw that this individual had a.
What does DIA stand for again?
Defense Intelligence Agency.
Okay, got it.
Yeah.
And it might have been DOD as well.
But anyway, I saw that this individual had a cocktail and it looked like whiskey on the rocks.
And so I ordered a whiskey neat.
And we start chopping it up.
Excuse me.
And I said, I said, you know, I've heard that there are not that many people on this planet that have the big picture or the bigger picture because I'm dying to know.
I'm just curious.
Even if I can't share it with the world, I still want to know.
Yeah.
And this individual is like, yeah, probably 10, probably 10 people that have the bigger picture.
I was like, 10 people on the fucking planet?
Really?
And I said, well.
This person would know?
As far as I'm concerned, yes.
Okay.
I mean, I was all ears.
So I said, huh, well, like, what category would you consider yourself?
Probably one of 30.
So you have a bigger picture.
I mean, not quite as big as the 10, but you'd call yourself in the category of one of 30.
Yeah.
And I was like, huh, well, what would you think of someone like Hal Putoff?
Probably one of 50, I would say.
Yeah, probably one of 50.
I was like, huh.
Well, I heard that, I don't know, I've kind of heard that the bigger picture is a little scary.
This individual's like, yeah, yeah, I could see that.
So I was like, shit, am I going to find out?
Like, what, you know?
And I was like, well, scary, like, I have something to worry about, like a fearful, no, you'll be fine.
We'll be fine.
So I was like, well, and it was like a crowbar trying to, you know what I mean?
But I wanted to be tactful.
I didn't want to just be like, get it, you know?
So the conversation a little more and pry a little further.
I said, uh, Well, like, how is it scary?
This individual goes, intent, their intent.
And I was like, oh, their intent.
What the hell is their intent?
They know what their intent is?
Like, origins and intent?
That's the gold.
I mean, that's the holy grail, as far as I'm concerned.
I don't know.
So I said, and then just as I was going to pry a little further, thinking, like, and I could see Leslie.
Leslie, Was looking at me from 30 feet away over where we were talking to.
She was staring at you.
Staring at me.
She was like, like she knew.
She goes, I know that look on your face because I've been working with you for over 30 years and I know that look.
And she's like, You were getting something juicy.
And she goes, I didn't want to come over and interrupt.
But she was, she, I looked at her for like that.
We communicated telepathically, like, BAM.
She knew exactly what I was after.
And someone butts into the conversation.
Hey, I've been really wanting to meet you.
I got a picture.
Kind of a cocktail situation, you know?
And I was just like, Oh.
And that was it.
It was over.
That was it.
That was as far as I got.
Yeah.
So, when you asked him that you heard there was something scary.
Yeah, because I've heard.
What have you heard?
I've heard that it's a little scary.
Like, how so?
I don't know.
I don't know.
That's the part I thought I was going to know, and I didn't get to know.
The intent.
The individual said intent.
Their intent or intent.
Definitely the word intent.
Right.
Because it's like origins and intent, right?
We want to know their origins and intent.
Their origins could be here.
I mean, it could be just like.
That's what I think now.
Could be.
That's.
Would I overwhelm them?
I mean, it could be, right?
I mean, if I was in Vegas and I was throwing it on the blackjack table, I would bet that they were from here.
And this is what I learned from Mike Masters.
He's the anthropologist who has the extratempestrial model book about time travelers.
He was making the case, which I thought was very compelling, that on all the other Goldilocks planets that we know of, the pressure is different.
A lot of them are just purely water worlds, there's barely any land on most of them.
Different conditions, different gravity.
Anthropologist Time Traveler Model00:05:00
And he was making the case that if intelligent life evolved on another Goldilocks planet, there's no shot it would look like us, bipedal, upright hominids, because we are one of 2 million cataloged species on Earth, us, right?
There's 20 different species of apes, of hominids, 20 different hominids.
Out of the 20, we are the only one that has figured out tech.
We're smart enough to figure out technology to get off the planet.
But we are one of over 2 million species on this earth.
So we, us, Are super rare just on this planet.
And if you extrapolate that out to other planets that are able to inhabit intelligent life, he's like, sure, they could figure out intelligent life, but the chances of them being bipedal hominids with heads on top of their brains that sit right on top of their eyes, forward facing eyes, two arms, two legs is like no shot in hell.
He was making a kid.
That's a really interesting observation.
And I'm going to go back for a moment to Jason Sands.
And I get he's a very controversial character.
I get that.
But he did say something to me that I've heard before.
And that is, and it makes you wonder.
I don't know.
It just makes you wonder.
He said that the individual, and maybe the encounter happened.
Like, I remember pinning one intel folk down.
I was just like, you know, we have a little evidence on that.
We have the UFO that was captured and that whole story that came out.
And his was like a couple days later, allegedly.
But he said that.
What year did this all take place?
1994, I think it was.
I'm pretty sure it was 1994.
It's in the movie, the program.
You can, again, watch it for free on YouTube movies.
But he said that the individual had, or the eyes were insane, as everybody says.
And maybe Jay Sands is lying.
I don't know.
I find it hard to believe.
Look at that.
You said, I don't know.
Yeah, I don't.
Which is so rare these days to hear from people.
Yeah, I don't know.
But he did say something about the communication with the eyes.
Everybody's like, you just get lost, and the eyes just lock you in, and you feel like it's almost they take over your brain a little bit or put you in a sort of trance.
But he said that the.
Outfit that the individual was wearing after walking through the desert had to be dirty.
The boots had to be dirty.
You don't walk through the desert the way this individual was walking through the desert without getting dust on your boots and dust on your outfit.
And his were immaculate.
So I just thought to myself if true, if he had that encounter and if the other people that we have their names, if we had that encounter and we got it, I got as far as contacting the individual indirectly that debriefed all those people after the alleged encounter in the convoy.
Yeah, I did.
I got in touch with that individual.
I just was like, Did it happen or didn't happen?
I'm not going to verify anything for you on or off the record.
Done.
Like it was just like.
That's it.
So then I asked the other individual that got me to that individual and I was like, I don't know what to do.
Like what do I do?
What you know?
Do you think it?
Out of frustration i'm like, do you think it happened or not?
Long pause yeah, I think it happened.
And then I, but then I um, was listening to Age Of Disclosure and it got to James Clapper.
Yeah, was he Dia or N, I think DI, I don't know all I know involved in some crazy.
Yeah, it was high level, and he was like, admitted that oh, there's a lot of UAP, UFO activity in or around area 51 and I thought, Okay, well, that certainly leans in the direction to verifying that there is that type of activity happening there, close encounters of the third kind.
And it's not the first time that I've heard about close encounters of the third kind occurring in and around the base.
I'd heard about it from other people that I've been to.
James Clapper is a weird one.
I've heard a lot of.
Yeah.
I mean, I don't like to talk shit about people, but I mean, he's a government official, so fuck it.
Yeah.
I've heard a lot of folks say a lot of like, he's a really questionable dude.
And like, maybe he might have been, I could be getting this wrong, but he was one of the dudes who helped sell the Iraq war to the Americans.
Can you find Jesse Michaels just retweeted something?
I think it was yesterday.
Oh, that was Grush saying that he felt that Clapper knew about the Crash Legacy Crash Retreat program.
Right.
I saw that too.
Right.
I actually texted Jesse.
I was like, Jesse, what do you think about this?
He's like, pretty wild.
Yeah.
I don't know.
Yeah.
A lot of people.
Why would he make that up?
Like, a lot of people say that just the fact that Clapper is involved in all this stuff and like he's showing up to the hearings, it's like.
Something's not right when you add that guy into the puzzle.
Yeah.
You know, like there's got to be some deception going on here or some sort of strategy.
Well, apparently, I remember Dan Farris saying that Clapper.
Oh, David Grush revealed that Dick Cheney controlled the UFO crash retrieval and cover ups like a mob boss.
When he left in 2009, that was the last time that these activities really had central leadership.
This is what Grush is saying.
Clapper Involvement Puzzles00:02:54
Okay, that's not what I was.
That's crazy, by the way.
But that's not what I was.
No, that's not it.
This was like yesterday.
Jesse retweeted it and wrote, like, Shots fired above it.
Yeah, yeah.
Keep going.
Yeah, I saw that.
Keep going.
I saw that tweet.
Keep going.
No, this is not it, I don't think.
There you go.
Shots fired.
That's what it is.
David Grush tells Megyn Kelly that James Clapper managed the UFO crash retrieval issue while serving as director of national intelligence.
When he was the DNI, the USDI, and DIA director, he placed people in critical roles to manage this issue both publicly and, I'll say, show more.
Now, let me just say one thing that I wasn't sure if you guys were aware of, but Dan Farrow said to me at the screening or after the screening that Clapper's wife was in the hospital on the verge of death.
And he was like, and he wanted the interview, obviously.
He wants, I mean, Dan wants the interview.
Who wouldn't?
Right.
And he goes, hey, listen, I understand, Mr. Clapper, if you need to attend your wife, he goes, nope, I'm coming.
I'm going to do this interview.
So Dan said that he really wanted to get some things off his chest.
That's what Dan said.
I don't buy that.
Personally, I wasn't there.
Personally, I just don't.
I mean, I'm not buying what Farah is saying.
Oh, right, right.
I don't buy that James Clapper is that type of person.
Somebody like him, I mean, again, I don't know just from what I've heard and somebody in his level.
Here's the thing, though.
Let's just say, let's just look at it through a different lens, okay?
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Walking Encyclopedia Talks Truth00:12:55
And I'm not saying believe Clapper, don't believe Clapper, doesn't matter.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
My point is this let's say you're a high level person within the DIA.
Let's talk about Eric Davis and the Wilson memo.
Admiral Wilson.
Wasn't he part of the DIA at one point?
All right, let's just say that he did get exposure to the legacy crash retrieval program.
I'm not saying that he did or he didn't.
Let's just say that he did.
Let's assume that he did.
Now he wants to come forward and he wants to talk a little bit about it.
How does he do it?
And now he's part of the deep state.
The deep state.
Right.
So he wants to come forward to get it off his chest.
Some people want to do that.
They're humans.
Yeah.
They got grandchildren.
Yeah.
They got kids.
Yeah.
So they come forward and then people like us criticize them because they were part of the deep state.
Right.
Does that mean that you could never come forward and tell the truth because you're a part of the deep state?
You're never to be trusted?
You're just hard.
It's harder to believe those people.
That's what I'm saying.
So it's like they're fucking stuck.
Yes.
How do you do it?
Yes.
So you say, hey, I'm willing to put my right hand on a Bible and I'm willing to undergo a lie detector test?
Maybe.
Yeah.
I mean, that would have some way.
That would help.
Or, yeah, that would help.
Or I swear on my wife's and my children's lives.
I'm telling you the truth.
I've The whole truth and nothing but the truth?
Or do you ask to be subpoenaed and you testify under oath, which has implications?
Now, if you testify under oath to a bipartisan group of lawmakers publicly, publicly, and then you say, you give specifics, this person was the gatekeeper, this person was over here.
See, that's what I think.
The way I think as a documentary filmmaker, I don't give a shit if you tell me the truth or not.
But what I do want to do, what I do give a shit about, Is I want to create a platform.
I want to put your feet to the fire.
And I want you to give me those specifics.
Let me prove that you're lying.
And let's provide a platform that will enable you to give more specific details under oath to the world.
And then tell me who was it?
Where is it?
Where's the craft?
Where's this?
Where's the bodies?
Tell me more.
You know what I'm saying?
Because we owe it to ourselves.
It's so easy to sit on the sidelines and go, Jason Sands is full of shit.
Well, all it takes is one member of Congress with a curiosity to go, you know, I saw that film.
The program, and I saw Jason Sands.
I think that guy's full of shit.
Let me do a deep dive on him.
Wow, his military records check out.
Blah, blah, blah.
Guess what?
Tap him on the shoulder, come into a skiff, give me those details.
Holy shit.
Now I know more.
Now I know about this other crash with special access.
So maybe just one person gets inspired.
I'm just saying, because it's so easy for people to call the neurosurgeon a liar, the girl's a liar, the crash retrieval witness a liar.
If one person, just one person, is telling the truth in moment of contact, New revelations, right?
Just one.
That's the biggest story ever.
Particularly the people that came in contact with the creature.
Now we have five, maybe six.
Let's see.
We have Chief of Police Pedro Aguirre.
We have Military X.
I know all of his credentials.
I know his full name, who drove it and saw it.
Then we have Katya.
Then we have Liliani, her sister, Valkyria.
That's five.
And now we have the neurosurgeon.
That's six.
And the last time I was in Virginia, just a couple of weeks ago, I spoke with a nurse who conformed me.
He's telling the truth.
I said, How do you know he's telling the truth?
Amara witnessed it.
I witnessed it.
Marco witnessed it.
Our translators witnessed it.
Shaking like this, telling the truth, telling the truth.
I said, How do you know?
Because I was there.
I was like, Shit, will you go on camera?
I can't.
No, I can't.
I'm not a high level neurosurgeon.
I can't.
I can't do that.
Maybe I will, but not now.
I can't.
But that was, that's another one of those things where, you know, they ask me, like, you know, what keeps me going?
You get little, you know, like I met with the Air Force General Jose Carlos Pereira twice years ago, once in 2012, another time in 2013.
And he confirmed to both Marco and I off camera.
It was funny actually because we sat down with him.
I think we had to go up to Brasilia at one point.
But he goes, Yeah, I'll talk about Ubatuba.
I'll talk about Colares in the 1970s.
I'll talk about UFOs over Brazil in 1986.
He mentioned one word about Virginia.
This interview's terminated.
And Marco and I looked at each other like, The fuck?
Really?
Like, what?
I can't even ask you a question about it?
Like, what?
What?
Did you use it on camera?
Probably.
I'd have to look.
Or maybe it was setting up to it.
But in any case.
That would have been worth the whole setup.
But anyway, at the end of it, and I swear on my life, this is true.
We had an interview, and I didn't ask him about Virginia, but we turned the cameras off, we turned the audio off, and Marco and I came up to him, and he was getting ready to leave, and we were begging and pleading with him.
Because I just, on a personal level, I'd like to know, like, You know what I mean?
I'm just a curious guy that wants to get as many answers as I can.
If they're off the record, fuck it, I'll take what I can get.
So I was begging him, like, please.
I mean, I remember joking, describing the interaction as practically licking the dirt off his boots, you know, like really begging him.
And Marco was too.
And he was getting his affairs together and he had a driver waiting.
He was going back to his car.
And I can't remember if that was in Brasilia or I'd have to talk to Marco because he had a couple of meetings with him.
And sat in the car, door open, driver, engine running.
Looked up at Marco and I, and he goes, It happened.
Clicked the door, off he went.
Never, obviously, I never included that in any of my movies, but just like the nurse the other day, that was like an extra layer for me on, okay, Ethelow, who's also willing to take a lie detector test, who's also willing to put his hand on a Bible.
Like to have that nurse who doesn't want to make herself, you know, public, doesn't want to like come forward publicly, but gave me that little tidbit of information, just like the general, like that kind of makes you go, I think we got something here.
Yeah.
Do you know what I mean?
It's very, I mean, I am right there with you, man.
I believe it.
I believe this with every fiber of my being.
But my question is when you have people like this dude that you met at the premiere that's saying the scary thing about these things is the intent.
And on the other hand, you have the neurosurgeon saying it was an angel, saying it was almost like he was like an angel.
Yeah.
What do you make of that?
How do you connect the dots?
Well, here's how I.
So I think about all the different, and I am not like a Richard Dolan type, right?
He's a walking encyclopedia.
Yes.
Stanton Friedman, Walking Encyclopedia.
I know the cases that I know because I've done a deep dive, gone to the location, talked to the witnesses.
You know, with Socorro, for instance, I mean, I went to the leading writer, Ray Stanford, R.I.P. Ray, thank you for your contribution.
Went to his house, spent a week with him, went to the National Archives, uncovered never before seen documents on the case, got to know his wife, got to know his coworker, got to know his daughter, got to know his son, Michael, like five years on that case.
I mean, dude, I know more about that case now that Ray's gone probably than anyone on the planet.
Which case are we talking about?
Socorro, New Mexico, 1964, a close encounter with the third kind.
My point is this it's like what I know, I know because of my personal experience.
I didn't read it out of a book.
Like, I actually go to these locations, right?
I go to places.
And when I start putting all the different things that I've, you know, Travis Walton, I've looked into that case, not anywhere near as much as I did with Rua or Virginia or Socorro or whatever, or Roswell.
You talked to Travis?
Oh, hell yeah, many times.
I went out to the location where he was taken.
I talked to the other witnesses that were there.
I've talked to the leading researchers.
You believe him?
Fuck yeah, I do.
I do believe him.
Yeah, I do.
I mean, I went out there and I saw his reaction when he got to.
Yeah, and I met the other witnesses that were with him too.
Right.
I mean, it really fucks you up.
I've been with him when he's frozen up, and I've had people from Rua freeze up.
When I talk to them about, like, when you get to a certain point in the encounter when they had face to face contact with these creatures, I've had people just freeze up, just like stare at the camera.
Josh Gates was with me when it happened with Travis.
He just was like, we were like, hello.
You okay there, buddy?
Like, hello.
We were interviewing a woman, Emma something.
I have it on tape.
And all of a sudden, she just stopped.
It was right when she got to the point of contact, allegedly, in Ruiz, Zimbabwe with the creatures.
She just went blank.
And it was almost like they were reliving it, you know?
And if you look at.
I'm sorry, I'm going off on all these different things.
Sorry, I'm sending you a video, Steve.
Yeah.
Continue.
It's all good.
When you look at Carlos DeSouza, look at it carefully.
When we get to the crash site, we go out in Moment of Contact.
Right.
Right.
New revelations.
Carlos has this moment where, well, first of all, we couldn't find the damn crash site, and that was incredibly frustrating.
I was thinking, this is not off to a good start, but it had been 26 years.
But when he finally, we finally found the impact site, there was a moment, and it's very brief, and I don't even know if it's a second long or if it's a second half, but you can see his eyes almost like a blank stare, and he's just, what it looks like as a viewer to me is that he's reliving it, and he's seeing it as it was all those years earlier, like he was reliving that experience, and he just kind of, Froze for a moment.
And I see that with, like, I've had that happen with Travis.
I've had that happen with witnesses to Rua, where they're in the middle of describing the face to face contact.
And it's like a short circuit.
A short circuit, exactly.
Yeah, just kind of tweaked out.
But anyway, getting back to the point of all this, is I think about the individuals that he allegedly came in contact with.
And I think about them caring enough for his safety if the accounts are to be believed, yes.
I, you know, in the 70s, Snowflake, Arizona, I think about if the accounts are to be believed and all those people are telling the truth, or maybe they're all lying, I highly doubt it, but if they are, they picked him up in a very remote area of the mountains.
I mean, dude, I've been there a couple times.
It's very, he would have died if it would have put him back where they scooped him up five days later.
They put him in a little area where it was a dip down on the outskirts of town, right close to a phone booth, like, and they zipped down below under the cover of darkness, dropped him off.
Again, if the accounts would be believed, that's what happened.
Dropped him off and left.
So, they cared about his well being, but they didn't want to, you know, they wanted to minimize any possibility of their exposure, right?
Then I think about Betty and Barney Hill, okay?
Think about that case.
Was it 61 in New Hampshire?
Fascinating case.
Very compelling.
Stanton Freeman looked into it extensively.
He thought there was some really, really tangible things.
Where they took eggs and sperm from him, right?
Yeah, and there was some sort of star chart.
Oh, he said a reticuli, yeah.
Yeah, something.
I don't know.
But Stanton Freeman talked all about it, and he was very impressed.
But, uh, You know, different the way they looked, the way their mouths, whatever that whole interaction.
They said they were from this particular star constellation, whatever.
Um, then I look at like Rua, those entities were looked different, and their interaction they're warning the children of environmental destruction, technology, whatever, all that stuff.
Then I look at allegedly the contact with the girls in Vargenia, this creature, and I'm thinking to myself, are we dealing with one phenomenon, or are we dealing with like A whole array of phenomena, right?
Like maybe it's all of the above, right?
I, again, I don't know, I'd like to know, but maybe we're dealing with interplanetary, interdimensional time travelers.
I mean, look out there into the night sky in the middle of the desert sometime.
That's a big damn universe, right?
I mean, it's huge.
I mean, the billions and billions of possibilities.
So, I don't know, maybe we're dealing with all the above.
Maybe there's a phenomenon right here that's interacting with us, it's always been around, and I believe that too.
But maybe we get periodic visitation from outside, maybe interplanetary.
Maybe interdimensional, maybe time travelers, maybe it's all the above.
Honestly, mate, I really don't know.
I'd love to know.
But maybe sometimes I lean in that direction too.
Maybe it is all the above.
Right.
Could be.
I mean, why not?
But I don't know.
And I'd love to know.
And I've told Michael Shermer of Skeptic Magazine, I was like, look, because he always goes, you know, oh, you're, you know, you can't just quickly default to it's alien, extraterrestrial.
I'm like, I ain't doing that.
Like, If a witness wants to say they saw an extraterrestrial, sure, have at it.
I'll provide a platform later.
Interdimensional Or Time Travelers00:03:29
We got to say.
But, like, you know, what I liked about Virginia is the girls were like, I don't really know what the hell this thing was.
It wasn't human, I'll tell you that much.
It was underintelligent.
It was an intelligent being that was communicating with us.
Yeah.
And you brought up Spielberg earlier.
Yeah.
Okay, so if you ever watched E.T., that's what it reminded me of.
Dude.
Okay, so check this out.
So, last visit, just a couple weeks ago, we were getting statements for this event we're putting on at the National Press Club because I feared that the State Department would deny visas to a great body of people.
And unfortunately, that happened.
We fought like hell.
We had members of Congress reaching out to the consulate in Rio for the application for the visa application.
We hired an immigration lawyer.
Like everything, we did everything we were supposed to do absolutely correctly.
I'm telling you.
Seven got denied, six, seven, bunch.
And so I was.
Of the witnesses.
Yes, of the firsthand witnesses.
We were going to fly them to D.C.
This is all happening.
We're having the event anyway.
So I flew to D.C. Sorry, I flew to Brazil just recently and I got statements and I did it in conjunction with the town mayor, gave me an official setting, flags, podium, looks amazing.
And in the process of doing that, we were talking to Katya.
Katya is one of the girls that was.
21 at the time.
She was with the two sisters, Liliani and Valkyria.
And she goes, You know, I can't help but think like how things would have turned out differently if I'd helped that creature because it wanted help.
And she was locked in the eyes of that creature.
I don't know if I told you the story, but when the girls, I know you know the story about the girls coming in, you know, 10 feet, whatever, broad daylight in that little field.
They ran away after it.
It had a cinder block wall and it was crouched against the cinder block wall, feeble, suffering, like weak, frightened.
The three girls were looking at the cinder block wall.
And I guess what they said, what got their attention, it was about three o'clock in the afternoon, hot day, sunny.
Summer, they saw like some graffiti on the cinder block wall, and that kind of caught their attention.
Looked in that direction, and then they see what they thought was like, Is that a statue?
Like, what the hell is that?
It was some kind of creature slouched down against the wall.
They were looking at it like, What the, you know?
And then it, one of the girls yelps, it might have been Liliani, screamed, You know, and the creature turned and locked eyes with them.
At which point, it had these big red eyes, and it was suffering.
It was weak and feeble.
It wasn't threatening, it wasn't like it was leaping at them.
And there it is right there.
Yeah, that's the best depiction right there.
The New York Post one that Michael Schellenberger wrote.
But that up next to that, Steve.
Yeah, right there.
That's what the creature looked like.
Betty Rodriguez did that with the help of the three girls right after the incident.
That's a cinder block wall.
So Liliani, who's 16, grabs her sister, Valkyria, who's 14, and hightails it out of there.
They get about 150 feet away, and Liliani realizes shit, we left Katya behind.
And Katya's locked eyes on this thing and having communication with it.
And it was basically saying, either help me or don't hurt me, like, leave me.
Creature Depiction Details00:15:28
Help me.
And she was considering helping it.
And, like, if she'd done that, and she's reflecting on that now to this day, she's like, how things would have been different.
Maybe it wouldn't have been captured.
Maybe it wouldn't have been killed.
Maybe it wouldn't have been ended up in the hands of the U.S. military.
Like, I could have saved that thing.
It's like, what brought it home?
Yeah.
Well, yeah, but that's a whole nother conversation about the.
The rescue search and rescue operation because that's one distinction that we made.
That you might have noticed the difference between the old version of Moment of Contact and the new version of Moment of Contact because we met with and I shot from behind the family, right?
Well, yeah, from the family behind.
Well, that's when I started.
I didn't quite put it together at the time, I kind of did, but I was like, You gotta be kidding me.
This is an extraterrestrial.
If the accounts are to be believed, and why on earth would this family be lying?
And they live right near the area, like if you, which I do, I take my drone and I fly up and I put the camera straight down.
Yeah.
You got the military blockade here, according to those witnesses, according to Princess of TV.
That's where there were armed guards blocking the road.
Then the girls came in the encounter right here.
The capture happened right here.
The family lives right here.
It makes total sense that if there was an operation to recover that guy that we just saw, that's where you'd do it.
So it makes absolute sense because I kept saying to the family, how do you know?
How do you know this thing was looking for?
We talked about how you know it was looking for something?
Look, I watched it for 20 minutes.
Flying slow and low.
It was a disc with a spinner on the bottom of it.
And it was going down to the end, turning around, coming back, going down to the end, coming back, turning around, slow and low, stop, pivot, move, back, forth, grid search.
I swear to God.
And so when I restructured the entire opening of Moment of Contact, because I incorporated some of the congressional units, I didn't get bogged down in that.
And then some of the previous accounts of alleged crash retrieval, Magenta 33, Roswell 47, Kingman 53.
Kecksburg 65, you know, Landing, Bentwaters, yada, yada.
I completely abolished the entire previous opening that I had.
But then I was like, oh, wait a minute.
This footage, I didn't link this before.
This is like one of the best night disc footage of a UFO I've seen.
This is really impressive.
And then I was like, oh, it just happened.
It was 1996, April, just a couple months later, right?
And so I looked up the location in proximity to Virginia.
And like, you know, Virginia's here.
Sao Paulo's down here.
It was like down in somewhere in here, not that far away as the crow flies.
So I was like, could that be connected?
Interesting.
I don't know.
It's brilliant.
You've seen it.
The disc, excuse me, the disc footage.
You didn't see that?
Remind me, it's not ringing a bell.
I have footage of a disc and there's a kid going, what part of the movie?
Uh, when I interviewed the family outside from the back, yes, right after that, I cut to that footage to say this could be connected.
Oh, okay, yeah, I don't for some reason that part's not ringing a bell, but you're saying so.
So that could have been the same craft that was looking for the beings.
It's a hypothesis, it could be, yeah.
Imagine how different that girl I know.
Walking by the creature and deciding to help, it would have been the real life ET.
It would have been the real life ET to the roof.
Isn't that crazy?
Or bring it inside.
I think about this all the time.
I don't really talk about it because I sell it.
But you do want to touch him, right?
No, you wouldn't want to touch it.
And I don't think he would want to touch you either.
It was not.
No, just for those out there that feel like because people get freaked out when they hear that Marco Shries died.
Marco Shries grabbed the damn thing like a cowboy.
Yeah.
And he just got a scratch.
And the forensic pathologist, Dr. Jeannie, says on camera, That it most likely came from the fingernail of the creature and the bacteria got into his blood and killed him.
And the thing was alive and well when he grabbed him.
Yes.
And he grabbed it.
He basically captured him like you would capture a wild animal.
Cowboy.
The guy didn't want to get caught.
Cowboy.
And it didn't put up much of a fight.
Apparently it was weak and feeble and he just put it on his lap and off they went.
What a fucking crazy person.
Now, remember, the only living witness to that capture, the second capture, is Eric Lopes.
And when we went to his house, because all other options, people would criticize me for that one because they go, You know, why didn't you just doorstep him?
You just showed up at his house with cameras rolling.
Who does that?
I was like, didn't he pull a gun on you or something?
So, this is interesting.
There's a new development on that.
So, when we got to his house and everything was happening really quickly, I jumped out of the car and I was like, we're going to, Eric, I'm just dying to meet you.
You were hot to trot, dude.
Hot to trot, ready to roll.
And I'd found out later from other fellow Brazilian researchers and some of them quite hot dog, like Victorio Pacaccini.
And by the way, while I have this opportunity, I want to talk about my partner, Marco Leal, and give him tremendous credit for all the work he's done.
Couldn't have done it without him.
And previous researchers, Uberajada Rodriguez, Claudio Covo, Pacaccini, Marco Petit, AJ Givard, these guys all deserve tremendous credit because we're following in their footsteps with this.
We picked it up where a lot of them died and disappeared.
Uberajada Rodriguez, yeah, he was one of the leading lawyers on the case.
He was amazing.
Where was I getting at?
The capture.
Yeah, yeah.
So we got to his house, and I'm excited.
Like, because I'm like, holy shit, we might meet the guy that drove the car during the second capture.
Like, I'm hoping he's going to be home.
And I hear talking when I got out of the car, and I was like, I didn't see a front door.
Like, I, you know, for a moment, I don't know.
Sometimes when you experience something like that, a moment of confusion, in your mind, it seems like a long time, but maybe it was only a second or two.
I don't know.
But then I looked up and I saw this guy in the window.
And he had one arm like this with something in his hand, and then he had another arm under the table.
And he was looking out there like, and the first thing out of his mouth to the guy who used to be a politician or very prominent figure, Romolo, and now a lawyer.
And they grew up together, so he knew Romolo.
So, and that was an afterthought of mine to have him walk up because initially he was going to show me where he lived and we were on our own.
But then I actually asked him, can you actually take us up to his house?
Walk out of the car and come with me.
And I don't know if he would have just started shooting if he saw a gringo out there first, or I don't know who the hell knows.
Cameras rolling, I don't know.
But I looked into this and I just didn't know who he was.
I didn't know what Eric Lopes looked like, but I looked into his eyes and I saw these eyes like eyes.
Remember, I was talking about Pedro Aguilar's wife with a bulging.
Yes.
Well, this wasn't like bulging, this was like.
If you could imagine harboring a deep, dark, profound secret for several decades and how that would weigh on you and how that would affect you and age you and stress you.
Like, and I'm looking in these eyes and I'm just like, fuck, who is this guy?
Like, look at those eyes.
I remember just looking in his eyes, like someone that felt plagued with, burdened by some deep, dark secret.
Like, if you could imagine the weight on his shoulders, that's what it looked like.
Okay.
I just remember getting lost in his eyes.
Well, he started threatening bullets are going to start flying.
My translators never once told me that's what was happening, which is, I had, we have a new person on board now.
I'm not trying to criticize the previous, you know, field translator, but I would have liked to have known that my life was being threatened multiple times.
Seems relevant.
I think so.
And I kept pushing the fact, maybe it was just as well that I didn't, because I probably would have just, I don't know, maybe I would have left.
But we got more information, and he ultimately admits.
I am Eric Lopes.
But when we first walked up, he's like, If you're here to talk about the ET, Eric won't talk.
He referred to himself in the third person, which is funny.
It's like cops showing up at your house at a party, and the first thing out of your mouth is like, Hey, there's no drugs in here, Mr. Officer.
It's like, Well, we didn't ask you that, but now that you mention it, you know what I mean?
Like, he brought up the ET like immediately.
Like, he knew that's.
Wow.
Do you think he could have been aware?
Is there any way he would have been aware of you by that point?
Like, could word have got?
Because the documentary hadn't obviously not been released yet.
No, it hadn't.
But is there any way he could have got tipped off by you, like being in the area?
Well, that was probably one of the times where I was most freaked out we had just met with a military ex, and then we were about to, and then we doorstepped Eric Lopes, and then we were about to have a meeting with another individual that allegedly had footage that they were not going to take me, they were going to take Marco Leal, my partner, and say that he was a cousin of blah, blah, blah.
And then the military base, as it started making phone calls to people that we just met with or that we were about to meet with, Now, whether Eric Lopes got a call or not, I don't know.
But some weird shit happened afterwards.
And they called up the guy that we just met with, Military X, and they said, oh, there's an American film crew poking around.
Did they reach out to you by any chance?
And our Military X guy is like, no, no, uh-uh.
Oh, good.
Are you still living at this address?
How's the wife and kids?
Good, good, good.
Excellent.
Well, if you, you know, if they reach out to you, let us know.
Yeah.
And he was like fucking free.
This is after he filmed with you.
This is right after we filmed with him.
Yeah.
And then the individual that we were going to meet with that allegedly had footage, he gets summoned to the base.
And he's been gone ever since.
So it was just like so close, you know?
But that was all right around the same time with Eric Lopes and Eric Lopes, military intelligence.
So it wouldn't surprise me if he got a call and he did good.
I mean, you know, he told us he's going to shoot us and get the fuck out of here.
So I found out two things after that.
One is.
I contacted his wife indirectly.
I can't remember who I did that through.
Might have been Marco.
Lopes' wife?
Yeah, sorry, Eric Lopes' wife.
Now, the interesting thing is, I'm not sure if you knew this, but so Eric Lopes married the sister of the deceased military officer who handled the creature, Marco Cherise.
Eric Lopes married his sister.
I think you said that in the movie.
Yeah.
I didn't say it in the movie.
No.
No.
So then, I don't think I did.
So then, we contact Eric Lopes' wife after the encounter where he threatened to shoot us.
And I might have apologized for doorstepping him or something, but I said, What's it going to take to get?
Because when I ask witnesses, I don't say, Will you come forward?
I don't ever do that.
I say, What's it going to take to get you to come forward?
Because then there's an opening, right?
Yeah.
So you don't give them that response.
So I said, What are you going to take?
What's it going to take to get your husband to come forward?
She said, Bring my brother back to life and then he'll dock.
I was like, That ain't going to fucking happen.
So then there was a security guard that we're friends with.
He's in the circle of, you know, security, police, that kind of thing.
And I believe he met with Eric Lopes or he met with Eric Lopes' friend.
I think he met with Eric Lopes.
And Eric Lopes said that he did have a gun and that he was about seconds away from, he was going to fire a couple shots in the air first.
That's what he said.
Yeah.
That's what I just heard that a couple weeks ago.
That's crazy.
Yeah.
Isn't that funny?
He said he did have a gun.
He's got to be.
We suspected he did, you know.
I mean, he's military, he plays.
Do you think he's watched the documentary?
I mean, I would imagine.
I mean, if I was in it, I'd want to watch it.
That's the thing about this it's like a prolonged investigation, and the stuff's going to come out.
You're not just going to release one thing, it's going to go forever.
And there's always a shot that this guy, in maybe five years from now, maybe 10 years from now.
I never give up.
Yeah.
Ever.
I never give up because look at what we've done in the last 16, whatever years, right?
Marco and I. Marco was on this before I was, at least 10 years.
So, and we got the 30th anniversary.
We have the new mayor.
Mayor Verge is no longer the mayor who we interviewed in the first doc, but we have the new mayor now, and I met with him twice, once in his office.
It just so happens that the security detail for the current mayor that we met with just a couple weeks ago his two parents are the ones that saw the UFO nearly crash.
The big cigar shaped crab with a tear, those are his parents, mother and dad.
Wow.
Enrico Orellina.
Orlina Enrico.
Wow.
Isn't that crazy?
Just massive coincidence.
Yeah.
But in any case, I'm flying back there probably right around the time this comes out, or maybe a little bit after.
There will be a 30th anniversary celebration, and people are looking at the bravery and courage of Italo.
And that's not going unnoticed within the medical community.
And the medical community, Cesario, Dr. Armando, Dr. Janini, that all have his back, and myself included.
And people are, that's not going unnoticed.
So, I've been asking Dr. Itolo, because this is a small medical community in that town, I need to talk to some medical doctors that were at Humanitas Hospital because I'm hearing through pretty credible sources that there was a live creature there as well.
Definitely one dead and very likely another one alive.
Maybe we got two alive ones.
Maybe we got more.
Maybe we got three.
I don't know.
But the military, sorry, the chief of police, Pedro Aguirre, I always have a difficult time pronouncing his last name, he said that he heard that there were up to three.
But I've heard from some researchers there were up to five.
I really don't know.
Have you ever heard of any other cases around the world of similar creatures with the red eyes?
Only time is Bloodsoe.
Bloodsoe saw that?
Bloodsoe's son has a tattoo of one with red eyes on his face.
What?
Yes, he does.
Yeah, check it out.
I can't remember him telling me about that.
I saw it in a pool at Palm Springs at Contact in the Desert.
And I looked at that plane and I was like, what the hell is that?
It looked just like the AT from.
Varginia with red eyes.
I'd never heard of red eyes like that.
Where did he say he saw it?
He says he's, I don't know.
We talked to him.
I guess he saw it was dad.
I don't know.
Dude, Chris Bloodthoe's son has it tattooed on his arm.
Find the tattoo.
I'm sure there's a photo of it online.
Get him to text it to you.
You know, you have Chris's number?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Get his father to take a picture of his son's number.
No, I have his son's number too.
I saw him in a pool and his shirt off, and I looked at it and I was like, whoa.
Whoa.
You know?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So that's the only one I've heard.
Red Eyes And Tattoos00:15:36
That's interesting.
I don't really like to do a deep dive, honestly.
Like, I know you don't.
Yeah, that's good that you died.
I love that about you that you're kind of like not super deep into all the crazy internet shit.
And when I started out this investigation, I mean, I've got to just remind your audience like, for those of you skeptics, yeah, right.
Good on you, mate.
I don't blame you at all.
Because when I first started this, actually, when I first heard about it, it was the late 90s.
I was doing my second UFO doc, okay, out of the blue.
At the time, we didn't have a name for it.
I always do kind of broad strokes on the chalkboard, you know, like, oh, let's cover this case, Bentwaters.
Phoenix Lights, yeah, you know, uh, Belgium, yeah, you know, we just, oh, that sounds good.
And we all got it.
And my partner, British guy, very smart, Tim Coleman, he's like, oh, mate, you know, I've got this incredible case in Brazil where these live aliens just crashed UFO, these live aliens walking through town.
And I immediately thought to myself, I picked the wrong partner out of his fucking mind.
I'm not kidding you, I promise you.
And I, and I, and not only did I not look into it, I didn't touch it, talk about it, even.
Read one word about it for over 10 years.
Fast forward, I did Out of the Blue.
I did Out of the Blue 2 Director's Cut, which I spent two more years on that after four or five years on the first cut.
Then I did a two part series for the History Channel called I Know What I Saw.
I actually did it independently and sold it to the History Channel.
Then I got invited to Brazil, and it must have been around 2010, would be my guess.
It was after I Know What I Saw.
And I got invited to speak at a place called Baruibi, which is the south of Sao Paulo on the beach.
On the coast.
And right before I left, I got a phone call.
I'm talking to this guy who's high up in the entertainment industry.
He's always been very influential behind the scenes, Jeff Sagansky.
I'm sure he's fine me telling you this.
And Jeff goes, and I had a lot of respect for Jeff.
And he's very, dude, he helped me get sales with, I mean, he was always like, introduce me to various people.
Hey, give this kid some, you know, meet with this guy.
You know, he was always very helpful.
He goes, Oh, James, you're going to Brazil.
You got to look into that, you know, that Varginha cave with the live alien.
I was like, Oh, my God.
God, not this fucking insane case again.
I was like, yeah, Jeff, yeah, sure.
Yeah, no, for sure.
Yeah, no, it sounds great.
Yeah, I'll definitely do that.
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Click.
And I was like, I'm not spending one second on that game.
I arrived in Brazil.
I ended up meeting with nuclear physicist and UFO researcher Stanton Friedman.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
And he's the reason why a lot of us know about Don Schmidt and Kevin Randall.
We know about Roswell today is because of the research those guys did.
And so Stanton Friedman, interestingly enough, he was like one of the biggest Bob Lazar skeptics, right?
Yeah, fair enough.
And that's why I kind of had respect for him.
I respect people being skeptical.
I really do.
I'm that way myself.
Excuse me.
I just.
I respect that.
And I totally understand anyone that might say to me, You're out of your mind.
Right.
I know every time I get back from Brazil that I'm at a cocktail party or a barbecue with my kids, you know, other kids' parents, whatever, at school, whatever school functions we do.
You know, I don't start talking about this case to people because they're going to look at me like I need to up the dosage of the medication I'm not even on.
Right.
I know that.
Yeah.
Like I'm not stupid.
You know, I remember the.
2021, when I came back, I'd shot the whole doc and I was starting to put it together.
CNN was at my house for an interview and they were all excited to talk about it.
I was like, Yeah, I'm not going to answer one question on that case because I knew I was going to come across as batshit crazy.
Yes, I was like, Let me put the film together first, you know.
And I actually saw how the film was received in the general public because when I finished The Phenomenon, which is the last film that I'd done, I was getting all kinds of mainstream media.
I was invited on all the shows, Tucker Carlson, like Joe Rogan.
CNN, MSNBC, written up in The Guardian.
It was all over the place.
Right wing, left wing, all that shit.
And when the moment of contact came out, it was crickets.
It was.
I mean, the UFO community held it up.
And I got a couple little podcasts.
Yeah, you reported on it.
Remember, you brought in the original sketches from the girls.
And then I watched Rogan hear about it.
And I don't blame Rogan.
He was.
Feeling the same way anybody would feel.
And I had a couple people.
I think it was the guy from Mines.
Sorry, I can't remember.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
I know you're talking about it.
It was Michael Schellenberger.
Yep.
I think Michael Schellenberger might have gone first.
And then the guy from Mines, I'm so sorry, mate.
I love you to death.
I always have your back.
I can't remember your name.
Yeah, I remember that.
I remember that.
He was super sweet and he goes, You know, I know.
Have you seen James Fox's movie?
And I could see this look on Joe's face.
And then Michael Schellenberger brought it up again on his show.
And then he was like, I guess he said, Okay, I'm going to watch it.
Because he'd heard, he clearly had heard about it because, you know, got out.
And then he watched it, and bam, as soon as he watched it, because I just like, just watch it.
You know, before you draw any conclusions, before you like write the whole thing off as I did, and I don't blame you, watch it.
And I really feel like maybe the first cut was a little premature.
It was before David Grush went and testified.
I mean, I had tears flowing down my face when that happened because I was feeling kind of lonely out there.
You know what I mean?
I was reporting on live aliens walking through a town in Brazil, you know, and I had people that were very concerned about the direction of my career.
Really?
Yeah.
I won't use their names, but they're people I'm very close to.
This is before it came out.
They were like, you know, you've got these great relationships.
You're working with Harry Reid and, you know, all these intel folks.
And now you want to report on some aliens, live aliens walking through this town and this, that, and the other thing.
I was like, I understand and I respect your skepticism.
I was there.
But I've been back and forth.
I've met the witnesses face to face.
You're just talking to people, is all you're doing.
You're talking to a load of people.
Sort of leaning into it big time.
And then the more I uncover, the more it comes out.
And the more it comes out, the more I'm like, oh, yeah.
Holy shit, this case happened.
You know what I mean?
And now I'm like, if somebody said to me, I need you to put your life on it that it happened or put your life on it that it didn't happen, 110% I'd put my life on it that it happened.
Yeah.
Do you see what I'm saying?
Oh, yeah.
Like, I'm not sitting there and say, I bet my life that it happened.
I'm just saying, but if I had to, one or the other, it would be it happened.
Oh, yeah.
No question.
Because, like I said earlier, one person, just one person in that film was telling the truth, and then this story.
High level of probability happens.
They'd all have to be lying.
What are the odds of that?
Like, what are the odds of that?
And I know that people are skeptical.
People are always skeptical.
Fair enough.
But Italo, like, what the fuck does this guy have to gain?
Like, why would he do that?
And why would he be a bar soap in the bathtub for that whole time we're trying to pin him down?
Kept going after him, kept going after him, kept going after him.
That's what we do, man.
We don't give up.
We get a lead and we go, we go.
Sometimes we go for years.
Right.
So, anyway, hold that thought.
I got to take a pee real quick.
All right, go.
We'll come right back.
So, one of the documentaries that blew my mind out of all the UFO documentaries I've watched, the one that really kind of reshaped my perspective on everything was the one about Paul Benowitz.
I never saw that one, I don't think.
Yeah, it followed, I think his name's Rick Doty, right?
Rick Doty.
He was a debunker or something, right?
Or disinformation guy?
Rick Doty, yeah.
He was a disinformation guy for the Air Force, I think.
Yeah.
And there was this dude, you know who Paul Benowitz is, right?
I've heard the name.
Yeah, definitely.
Yeah.
So Paul Benowitz was a, he was like a UFO researcher in the 80s, I think.
It's been a while since I've talked about this.
So I'm kind of like a little bit fuzzy on it.
But he was researching UFOs in the 80s.
He was living in Nevada, right next to a big Air Force base there where they were testing stuff.
And he was, Okay.
He was an American businessman and UFO investigator.
Okay.
So here's the story.
So he was filming and taking photos of what he thought was UFOs, right?
Around this military base or around this Air Force base in Nevada.
And he was a part of MUFON in the area.
And he was getting like real photos and he was bringing it and like talking, people were talking about it or whatever.
So Rick Doty got assigned to go investigate it.
So Rick Doty knocked on his door, introduced himself, saw 90s, 80s.
I think it was the 80s.
When did he get photographs of like discs or like what?
Do you know what I mean?
Do we have any photographs that he took that we have?
No, it all got taken.
Okay.
Oh, shit.
Benowitz was the target of a government disinformation campaign.
Does it say what year, Steve?
Okay.
Projects Gatsby was the cattle mutilation stuff.
I remember KPI.
89.
That sounds right.
88, 89.
Okay.
So, UFO cover up live, is that the one you're talking about?
Yeah.
So, so, so.
You should watch that.
I'll watch that.
The documentary is called Mirage Men.
Oh, okay.
Yeah, I heard about that.
It's a fantastic film.
Okay.
I'll watch that.
Was it like that?
Done by some dudes in Britain.
Funny enough.
Netflix?
I think I watched it on Amazon.
Amazon Prime.
I'll check it out.
Anyways, super like weird artsy filmmaking style.
Love it.
Like, so one of my favorite styles of filmmaking.
It reminds me kind of like a, kind of reminded me of a Harmony Kareem movie.
Anyways.
So, Benowitz got visited by Rick Doty.
Rick Doty found out everything that he saw.
And Rick basically, in this movie, they're interviewing Rick.
And he's like, Yeah, they found, you know, they figured out that what he didn't know was that the stuff that we were testing was our stuff.
He thought it was UFOs.
So, what they did.
Who said it was our stuff?
Was that Rick Doty?
Rick Doty said that.
To him?
Or to the cameraman in the documentary.
Okay.
So, Rick Doty goes back to visit Benowitz and goes, Holy shit, man.
You found some fucking aliens.
And then the NSA moves in across the street from Benowitz's house and they start beaming signals into Paul Benowitz's house saying that some sort of like radio transmission, because he was using all kinds of stuff to like sort of like listen to radio and like he was like, Really getting nerdy.
He was an engineer too.
He was an engineer.
Yeah.
So they were somehow, the NSA moved in across the street and they were somehow beaming signals into his house saying, We are an alien civilization.
Our planet ran out of water.
We are on our way to planet Earth right now and we will be there in a couple of years or whatever.
We're going to suck your well drive.
Yeah.
And so they were gaslighting him to believe that this is some sort of alien race that's coming to the planet Earth.
They knew he was a huge part of MUFON.
And what they thought was, Because they wanted to get him off the trail of that this was US technology because the military and the Air Force knew this, because this is during the Cold War, they knew that the Soviets had infiltrated MUFON because they wanted to figure out what we had, right?
So there were Soviet spies that were in the MUFON community there that were trying to get a better idea of what was going on as far as like secret military stuff the US had going on.
They wanted to poison the well of that local UFO community through Paul Benowitz.
They wanted to use him as a conduit of disinfo to throw off the Soviets.
And Paul Benowitz eventually just went crazy, right?
Because they were doing all this crazy shit, fucking with his mind.
And he ended up going to like a psych ward.
That's sad.
It's terrible.
It was a super sad story.
You know, I'm always suspicious of disinformation.
Agents, because once a disinformation, always a disinformation.
If you're gonna lie about one thing, why wouldn't you lie about something else?
Well, here's the thing like, some of it was true, like, what do you think was true?
That's how they do it.
And when you talk about Jason Sands, that's immediately what my mind goes to.
Like, is this guy that he did he have a credible story?
And maybe they tried to like throw in some crazy into there to make it unbelievable, to make the guy super discreditable.
And I would imagine they're still using this tactic.
Well, so I did a Relatively deep dive into the alleged landing of an unknown object at Bentwaters, England, the joint U.S. British Air Base.
I interviewed the Deputy Base Commander, Colonel Charles Holt.
I think I'm the only one to ever interview the general, General Gordon Williams.
I interviewed three of the primary witnesses.
Let's see, it was John Burroughs, Jim Penniston, and then the third guy, which I'm the only one to get him on camera.
I'll think of his name in a second.
But pretty much, if you listen to all the different stories and it took place over several nights, it's all pretty consistent.
They saw like beams of light, well, there was a landing of an object.
Deputy Base Commander Colonel Charles Halt went with a crew to go investigate because apparently the lights were back like a night or two later.
It was December 1980.
This isn't Rendlesham.
Rendlesham, yeah.
Oh, this is Rendlesham.
Yeah, Bentwaters Rendlesham.
And then, again, if you look at, you listen to the tapes and you listen to all the various testimonies, the number of people that were there and witnessed certain aspects of the incident, it's all pretty much pretty consistent.
Until there's one witness that starts talking about alien contact, yeah, I was there.
There was a book written about it left at Eastgate.
Larry Warren, I believe his name was.
And I'm not sitting there criticizing Larry Warren, but Larry Warren's testimony is kind of like Jason Sands.
It's like, yeah, this incident happened.
Then he just goes off the handle.
And I was thinking to myself, and then I was talking to Deputy Base Commander Charles Holt, Colonel.
And he goes, you know, this plane came in from Germany.
There were all these guys in suits from some unknown government, U.S. agency.
They were subjecting the witnesses, my men, to sodium pentothal.
They were like, you know, combing through all the evidence, allegedly took the photographs, said they didn't come out, like just all this stuff, right?
He goes, Yeah, they were here.
And then, I don't know, however long, many years it was later, Larry Warren comes out and starts just talking.
It's so inconsistent with every other single witness at the base.
It's like, okay, did they take him and subject him to like false memory or inject something into his memory?
Sodium Pentothal Witness Testing00:14:46
I don't know.
I have to consider that as a possibility because it's certainly a great way to muddy the waters, right?
Yeah.
You get someone there, and all of a sudden, it just goes sideways.
It's like, oh, wait a minute.
You know what?
I think I'm done with this case.
It's a very effective campaign.
Yes, I think so.
And I'll go back quickly to the, I think it's called the Warren panel.
Was it the, no, Robertson panel.
Sorry, Robertson panel.
Can you look up Robertson panel?
Yeah.
So they had, and I know you know this, but they had two consecutive weekends in July of 1952 at Washington, D.C. because people go, oh, if the phenomenon is real, why don't they land on the White House lawn?
Right, right.
Well, they nearly did.
And two consecutive weekends.
Is this when they were talking about the swamp gas stuff?
No, swamp gas was in the 60s.
Okay.
That came from Dr. Jalen Hynek.
Right, right.
But this was intense because you had two.
The Robinson panel was a result of two consecutive weekends at the White House, Capitol building, objects swarming UFOs, military jets scrambled.
Like they had authorization to fire at these things.
There was a massive press conference.
Just go to any archive, look up the front page of the newspaper.
Front page everywhere across the country.
So much attention.
That General John Sanford held a press conference, and it was a big press conference, and it was televised, and it was like he was in uniform, and he was like, address the issue and the fact that people are of high credibility or experiencing these incredible things.
And it was like, how do we deal with this problem?
They brought in the CIA.
CIA forms in early 1953, the Robertson panel.
The Robertson panel told the Air Force, essentially, from all the people that I've talked to about it, look, you can't necessarily.
Outright deny the phenomenon because there's too much compelling firsthand testimony and there's photographs and this, that, and the other thing.
But you can adopt this policy of ridicule.
The one of the aspects of dealing with the problem, right?
The problem, right?
And they call it a problem because, you know, the way the military looks at it is you've got objects of unknown origin.
They don't have a Russian flag or a Chinese flag, but they're whizzing around with impunity.
They exhibit a technology that's light years advanced from anything we've got, particularly back then.
We don't know who it is and where they come from, what they want.
Well, no governing body is going to want to disclose that nature of information.
So they convened the Robertson Panel.
The Robertson Panel, they adopted the Air Force of this policy of ridicule.
And it was a very effective campaign and it worked.
And to this day, It still kind of works.
Less so today, but yeah, it was a very good campaign.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, totally.
No, and I think that those kind of tactics were used all the time, especially during the Cold War.
You know, when the Cold War, the United States is known for being like one of the darkest, most.
That's when the US government was trying to deceive the American public more than any other time.
And we have more declassified documents exposing this stuff.
Than any other time.
That's when we had MKUltra.
The president was assassinated in broad daylight.
That's insanity, man.
Watergate?
My neighbor was a very famous film editor, Walter Murch.
He wrote a book called Blink of an Eye.
He's a fascinating editor.
He did English Patient Apocalypse Now.
He edited.
He did.
Okay, so I don't know.
Are you an editor?
I used to be.
Okay, so I'm no longer an editor.
I wish I could say the same.
He wrote this book called Blink of an Eye.
And he.
Examined the blinking habits of the general population.
So he determined this is the level of precision and professionalism this guy is.
He determined how often the audience of 200 people, 300 people, like how often they blink.
And he would perform a cut at that exact moment.
So his films would appear seamless to most people, right?
But that's the level of professionalism.
He was really good at his trade.
He took it very seriously.
And he worked on this documentary about.
JFK's death.
And I have a lot of respect for this guy.
He's a real, take him.
And he goes, he goes, yeah, man, the CIA killed JFK.
I was like, you know, I heard about it.
He's like, no, no question, no question.
And that's the first time I ever really believed that JFK was taken out by us.
That's, you know, that's a whole other topic of conversation.
And I'm not out there to talk about, you know, that big conspiracy.
But yeah, crazy shit goes on within the U.S. government, no doubt.
And also, in that time before Kennedy was killed, that's when they proposed the Operation Northwoods to fly an airplane with no passengers on it remotely and shoot it down over Cuba for a pretext to invade.
Like that's Gulf of Tonkin, the whole Vietnam War.
Like so much fucking lying and deception.
Really makes you wonder again.
And it happens with Republicans and Democrats.
Right?
Yes, of course.
It's like it makes you kind of wonder who's behind the curtain.
And right in the middle of all this lying, guess what?
We went to the moon.
Oh, yeah.
We weren't lying about that, though.
I know.
So I was, okay, and I, older generation, I'm going to tell you, am I open to it?
Yes, I am.
Am I ready for one Apollo astronaut to come forward and say it was a hoax?
I'm so ready.
I'd love to hear that.
My next door neighbor, we were best friends.
He was absolutely convinced we went to the moon, and we would have these spirited debates on it.
And he's like, bullshit, we didn't go, blah, blah, blah, blah, you know, and, and, um, I've heard Joe Rogan.
I was really good friends with Dr. Edgar Mitchell, 14th.
I know you are.
Yeah, Apollo 14, sixth man to walk the moon.
And I asked him about the controversy.
I asked him about all that stuff.
And I even asked him to walk me through every stage.
I was friends with Buzz Aldrin's sister, Faye Ann Potter.
She took me for a tour in her house, showed me all the photographs, what the astronauts were supposed to do under a number of operations.
One is they missed the moon and they were jettisoned off into space.
They were to take these things to kill them.
If Neil got out.
Oh, they had like cyanide capsules?
Yeah, cyanide capsules.
That's what they did.
In case they got shut, so they didn't have to have a slow death.
Yeah, she told you this.
She did, yes.
And she watched the whole thing from behind the scenes because she was the sister.
So she had all these photographs that I'd never seen before.
And then she said, my brother was told that if.
That if Neil gets off the moon and he lands and he just sinks into the abyss or whatever happens, you're not to play the hero.
You don't go out there.
You get in the ship and you leave his ass and you go rejoin the lunar orbiter and you get the hell back to Earth.
That's what she told me.
So all these things.
And then he told me, but there are some really weird inconsistencies.
I'd be the first one to tell you that.
I was like, that's interesting.
That's interesting.
Hmm.
And why wouldn't they lie about it?
Because the Russians were watching.
It was like, who can get there first?
Right?
Yeah.
So it makes perfectly good sense that we would lie about it and stage this huge hoax to let the Russians know, hey, you know, we're the king of, you know.
So I'm open to it, but he told me in such vivid detail.
He had to be such a good guy.
Yes.
I closed my eyes and I told him, I want every aspect of going to the moon.
I want you to tell me everything.
And I apologized to him.
And that was before I even had a hint of like fake moonlighting stuff.
It was in the 90s.
And some stuff started coming out after that.
And I was friends with him for at least a decade, possibly more than that.
And I went to his house.
And he told me in great detail, a level of detail that I think about five years later, I had the most vivid dream.
I swear to God, I went to the moon.
What it was like to translate, I go around the earth, then they have to turn on the rockets.
They have to get the trajectory just fine.
Translunar injection.
Translunar injection.
Yep, exactly.
Translunar injection.
He goes, James, if we got off just a microscopic, he goes, we would either hit the moon or we'd ricochet off and be out in outer space later.
He said, it had to be perfect.
And then I said, what was it like on the way to the moon?
He goes, well, I.
I watched the Earth get smaller and smaller, the moon get bigger and bigger.
But other than that, he goes, I might as well have been in a simulator because I was so focused on the task at hand.
I didn't really pay attention or have time to absorb what we were actually doing.
And then he said, when he got to the moon, it was his job to land the lunar lander and they had to separate from the lunar orbiter.
And I guess Michael Collins went around the moon, theoretically.
And he landed.
And he said, when he actually sat down on the lunar surface, it was the first time that he was like, oh my gosh, that's when it kind of really hit him.
And NASA had told him, I'm just telling you what he told me.
Yes.
I'm not asking anyone to believe what I'm saying.
And he said that NASA had given him very explicit directions to sleep because they'd been up essentially for three days to get to the moon.
And so they instructed them to sleep.
They got in their hammocks and he said he could hear these like macrometeorite, like macrometeorites, macrometeorites pelting the skin.
Like you could hear it laying on the surface of the moon.
That's what he told me.
Yeah, he said you could hear it.
And they were sitting there and they were so excited.
They were like, we're on the surface of the moon.
Like, screw it.
We haven't slept.
We can't get to sleep.
We're not going to go to sleep.
We're putting our suits on, told NASA.
put their suits on and they went to the surface of the moon.
He said he's walking around the surface of the moon and he said they had these big gardening gloves and they had Hasselblad cameras with no viewfinders.
And he said he was like walking on the moon and he looked out and he saw this marble, this beautiful blue marble suspended in a vacuum of space.
He goes, James, you don't know the vacuum of space until you're in space, the darkness, this blue life support vehicle, this, our spaceship suspended in the vacuum of space.
So beautiful.
He goes, I put up one of my hands.
And I blocked out everything I knew.
And then when he was coming home after they reconnected with the lunar orbiter and then they did a trans Earth injection back, he said he had a couple of days to reflect on what he was actually doing.
And that's when he had this incredible epiphany.
Again, I'm just reporting what he told me.
He said he had this epiphany.
He founded the Noah Institute to understand it better of this deep sense of interconnectedness.
The molecules.
Just the overview effect?
He could feel the molecules of his body connected to the spaceship, connected to the stars.
Like it was all one.
It was all one creation, one living consciousness, one thing, right?
He could feel it.
And he did some experiments with ESP as well that he said was quite successful.
Like they would project.
I don't think he told NASA about it at the time.
It leaked out later because he was like, you're going to tell them I'm doing ESP connections.
He like bought some cards with them or something.
I would have to dismiss his entire testimony.
But again, I'm not here to debate whether we went to the moon or not.
I'm just saying that I'm not sold that we didn't.
I'm not sold that we fully did.
Because there are some discrepancies and some things that have been pointed out to me that do make me scratch my head.
I brought this up with a guy who's a physicist and he knows everything about NASA.
And he gave me, I said, give me your best shot.
Give me 10 reasons why you went to the moon.
It's a guy that I used to work with, Ben.
And he's like, you could see the reflectors.
You could see this.
We still have the crate.
You know, the machine is still on the surface.
I was like, all right, that's pretty compelling.
Yeah.
And then you hear a tandem with that one where we didn't.
And that too is compelling.
So shit.
I'm in the same boat as you.
You know what I mean?
I'm not convinced we went and I'm not convinced we didn't go.
Yeah.
But having that connection to Apollo 14 Edgar Mitchell, man, why would he lie?
Well, I guess he would lie to me, but he told a pretty convincing lie, I got to tell you.
You know, there was a TV show that came out, I think in 2000s.
You could probably find it, Steve, in England, where they convinced a group of, this is like a reality show, where they successfully convinced a group of people that they went to outer space.
No way.
Yep.
Well, I mean, didn't Kubrick?
Didn't he do?
He actually did.
Okay, so I was talking to, so I brought that up with Edgar Mitchell.
I said, hey, there's some inconsistencies and shadows and light sources and this and that.
And he goes, you know, James, we had these hostile blog cameras, no viewfinder, big gardening gloves on.
Quite honestly, it wouldn't surprise me the whole world watching the biggest, most expensive operation in the history of mankind.
He goes, it wouldn't surprise me just because it'd have to produce some high quality, good imagery to the world that maybe they did some stuff as a plan B that leaked out.
Who said that?
Edgar Mitchell told me that.
He did.
He told me that from his mouth to my ears that it wouldn't surprise him.
He didn't say it happened, but it wouldn't surprise him if that did happen.
That's what I would say out of, I wouldn't say that we absolutely didn't go, but I would very confidently say that that footage was cooked up and sketchy.
Like, imagine, and Steve, find the video on YouTube of the lunar module leaving the first surface of the moon again, the one that we pulled up with Duncan.
Imagine that we had never gone to the moon.
And I said, James, I went to the moon.
You're going to be like, get the fuck out of here, Danny.
Like, no, I went to the moon.
I'll show you the footage.
Now, pull up the footage of that lunar module and I'm going to show you evidence that I went to the moon, James.
Right?
The most extraordinary feat of mankind ever.
I'm going to show you the footage right now of my spaceship.
Ready?
Yeah.
This is my spaceship.
See, I went to the moon.
That's my ship.
Yeah.
And crazy, another crazy thing.
Have you ever heard of Jolly West?
So they would have had to have left that camera on board.
That camera would have had to be removed.
They left that camera on the moon.
Yep.
And they had it remote controlled because it pivots up.
And there was like a five second delay.
A five second delay.
Yeah.
Well, Faye Ann Potter, and I can't believe I never got her on camera.
Buzz Aldrin's sister's space cadets.
That's the reality show where they convince the people they went to space.
Oh, really?
Yeah, yeah.
There were two people that, I'm sorry, two sightings that her brother had.
One was in a fighter pilot, as a fighter pilot, and he chased a disc.
And this is Buzz Aldrin, who's still alive.
Dude, I had Buzz Aldrin's number.
Why don't you get him on the show and bring this up?
I would fucking love to.
He's gonna die.
I know.
I had the guy in here a couple weeks ago.
I got his number.
I'll give it to you.
Listen to this.
I had the dude.
Invite him on the show.
I would love to.
If you have his number, I would fucking love to.
I do.
I got his number.
I just had Charlie Duke in here.
He did on Apollo 16 with a with a with Bart Sabrell, yes, the number one denier.
Some of that, yeah.
Jolly West Camera Delay00:07:04
How did it go?
So, Charlie Duke is the 12th man to walk on the moon on Apollo 16.
He's one of the last four living.
Did you believe him?
I don't know.
Wow, I don't know.
I so this is, I did what you did.
I said I just wanted to draw out as much personal memories and experiences, firsthand accounts.
I wanted to understand, like, like you do on your documentaries, like.
Put me in your shoes, yeah, yeah, put me there with you totally.
I can't imagine the overwhelming emotional experience.
Bring his granddaughter here, have him lie to her, yeah.
The emotional, like, just like the overwhelming experience of stepping foot on the moon for the first time in your life.
Holy, explain that to me.
Put if you can, put that into words.
The only thing he could say to me was excited, okay, excited.
This is really interesting because Edgar Mitchell told me he goes, Some of the astronauts had this deep epiphany and it changed their lives forever, other ones were just like, Yeah, man.
Yeah, just another day at the office, right?
Exactly.
That's what Edgar told me that some of them had this really deep, profound, and did artwork and imagery paintings.
And other people were just like, Yeah, well, just another day at the office at NASA, like, no big deal, really.
I mean, it would have rocked me up when I had that dream after he told me in vivid detail what it was like to go.
I had a dream, I swear to god, I went in my dream, I went like it really felt real.
And honestly, for me, I was terrified.
Like, if you had the opportunity to go to the moon, would you go?
I got kids now, no, I mean, I have one kid, but I would not, yeah, I was like, I don't think I would.
When I saw the earth getting smaller and the fact that I it was like when I did scuba diving, so I did uh, I did a, I did a night dive, I did a drift dive and I did a deep dive.
Really where?
Uh, I think it was in the Bahamas, oh wow, pretty sure it was.
No no, I did a night dive in cave Nons.
Once oh, I did cave, cave diving in in Honduras, in a place called Guanaja, but anyway, I did uh, this deep dive.
Okay, so the, the cliff, I mean the, the cave diving was pretty intense and I remember I was like kind of sucking my eye and every time I look down at my, i'm in a cave And the visibility was amazing.
And I'm looking down at my little gauge for how much oxygen I have.
And because I was an amateur, I was hyperventilated.
I was like, right.
And then you watch your dial getting lower and you're in a cave, like way down.
And I'm getting freaked out.
And then when I look at my oxygen, that makes me breathe even more.
So now it's sucking down even more.
And then that's wearing me.
So I kept periodically hitting my dive instructor, the dive master that was down there with us.
And I was like, like, look at my fucking, you know.
And he was looking at it and he's like, man, you know.
And then, and then, Two minutes later, I would look at everybody else's.
I had half the amount of oxygen everybody else had.
So I hit him again, and finally I'm down in the fucking red, right?
And I grabbed his ass and I grabbed him and I wouldn't let him go.
And I was like, like, dude, I'm out of air.
You know, and we're 60, 70 feet down in a cave.
And I grabbed him and he takes my thing out and he has a little spare one.
Octopus, yeah.
Octopus and puts it in my mouth and he locked arms.
And I was like, Jesus Christ, dude.
I had the same experience.
So we locked arms.
We go down there.
That was hair raising.
Then I did a night dive and that was creepy as shit.
I was like, why am I down here?
I can't see anything.
I'm all creeped out.
But the thing that got me the most, I did a deep dive.
I think I went down like 100 feet, maybe 120, something like that.
We went down real, we planned it out for a long time and we acclimated going back up again.
When I got down to the bottom, wherever we were, I looked up at how far away the surface was and I panicked because I was like, I ain't going to make it.
I couldn't, dude, I couldn't make it.
The boat is like a speck.
Dude, I couldn't make it to the surface without that gear that I had.
And I started to panic down there because it was scary.
Like my life.
Like, I've never seen the surface so far away.
You know what I mean?
And the fact that I had to calm myself, like, just calm down, dude.
Like, relax.
Like, don't panic right now.
Just relax.
And we planned it all out.
We knew where we needed to stop and breathe and stop and breathe and slowly and incrementally decompress.
Decompress, you know, off-gap, whatever you call it, you know?
And it slowly went back.
But it was almost like if you're climbing, I've climbed a few bridges.
I climbed the Golden Gate Bridge.
A buddy of mine was a climber and he was trying to get me on my fear of heights, and that was terrifying.
And I looked down at one point.
You climbed the top of it?
I did.
Yeah, the cable that goes all the way up.
And what surprised me was how steep it was.
So it's a cable designed to walk on.
It's a big cable.
It's big.
And then it has two guide wires, things that you can hold on.
And I should have had gloves on because they were frayed.
And I was kind of tearing my hands up and I was going up without gloves.
And everything was cool.
My legs started to burn as I got towards the top because the angle goes steeper, steeper.
And towards the top, man, it's steep.
I mean, it's getting steep.
And I'm climbing and I'm following my buddy Donnie.
Who later died of a climbing accident in his 20s.
I'm following him, and he's a professional climber.
I mean, professional.
He was a very, very good climber.
And I'm following him up, and all of a sudden, I looked down and I saw the cars like ants down below me on the freeway.
And I had this jolt of like energy, adrenaline just go through my whole body.
And I saw myself like pass out and fall to my death.
And then it got even more intense, and I was fucking panic mode.
I really was.
And Donnie caught, and I was about three quarters of the way up.
I was panicking, dude.
It wasn't hard to hold on up there, but I felt like I was going to pass out from the intensity of it.
Like I just, I don't know, I was losing control of my own body.
And I panicked, dude, really big time.
I never felt that way before in my life.
I mean, I kind of panicked when I was 120 feet down and looked up at the surface, but this, it was pretty dark too.
Donnie saw what was happening.
He was a climber and he goes, Don't look down, dude.
Look at where you're going.
Stay focused.
Breathe.
Follow me.
Like, come on.
Stay focused.
Thank God I was with him.
And then I stayed focused with him and got to the top.
When I got to the top, I told Donnie, it was like three o'clock in the morning.
I was like, Dude, I'm getting arrested.
Get the helicopters.
I'm not, I ain't going down there.
I'm not doing it.
He's like, You know, he's like, Oh, you know, don't worry.
I don't care about the consequences.
I can lock me up in jail for six months.
I don't care.
I'm not going back down.
He eventually talked me down into it because to go down, you're standing there and the cable just goes down into the void, like down super steep.
And you're going like this, going down.
Dude, it was terrifying.
And it wasn't so much that the physical feet of it was that physically challenging.
I mean, sure it was, but it was the mental part of it.
Like when you look at that climber, Alex Honold.
Moon Landing Consequences00:15:58
Oh, yeah.
He's like going up the face of this, like, what is he, a maniac?
One slip and he's 1,000% dead.
No safety, no safety tether.
And he's like whistling Dixie, dude.
It was all in his mind.
He's totally fine.
You know, I have, when I get on a really high or just those kind of things, I feel like I lose control of my own body.
And that's, I don't trust that feeling.
Hands start sweating.
Hands start sweating and I start going to worst case scenario.
So, anyway.
I'm the same way.
I digress.
Yes.
No, that's so.
That's crazy to me that there's some of those guys that, like that, went to the moon allegedly and they just like there's no, there's nothing you can pull out like Charlie, there's nothing you can really pull out of him.
As far as like a deep, like I feel like if I went to the moon, I would have more words to describe it than exciting, excited.
So, Buzz Aldrin.
There was a guy that that cornered.
He was going around in the 90s and he was cornering Various Apollo astronauts.
This is the guy I had on.
Put your hand on the buzz, punch him in the face.
Yeah, buzz punch him in the face.
Now, he did that to Edgar Mitchell.
Did you ever see that?
No.
Yeah, he did it to Edgar Mitchell.
Oh, into his house.
Yes.
Yes.
And then he says, You want me to call the CIA, have him whacked?
But hold on.
But he does put his hand, he does say, Edgar Mitchell does say, I walked on the moon.
Really?
He does.
I just saw it the other day.
Because your show, I forgot that you did that.
Yeah, yeah.
It sucked me in because I'm always curious.
And I was talking to Jesse about it.
And Jesse's like, because Jesse and Joe Rogan were talking about it.
Yeah, yeah.
And I said, Jesse, what do you think?
Jesse's a smart guy, man.
Like, you know, when Jesse speaks, I listen.
I was like, hey, okay, let me hear it.
And Jesse's like, well, there's this inconsistency and there's that.
And so I started, then I watched some of your show and I was like, wow, this is a great idea.
Get Buzz Aldrin.
But he, I saw Edgar Mitchell get cornered like that and he actually does it.
And then he gets pissed off and kicks him out.
But he did it.
Yeah, there he is.
Okay, you got it.
I didn't realize that he actually swore in the Bible.
Well, I don't know if he put his hand in the Bible.
He said, yeah, he does.
Give it audio.
Give us some audio, Steve.
Yeah, he did.
From the moon.
Affirm.
Affirm.
Under penalty of eternal damnation.
I don't believe in that, but.
Under.
Penalty of eternal damnation.
That I walked on the moon on Apollo 14.
That I walked on the moon on Apollo 14.
Well, you know, you're the first astronaut to do that.
We asked six other astronauts to swear on the Bible, and they refused to do it.
Now we get pissed off.
Wow.
I don't particularly like to take oaths like that either, because I don't accept the Bible as the gospel of anything except a historical record.
But we did go to the moon.
You bet your sweet ass we went to the moon.
So, you bet your sweet ass we went to the moon.
Here's where I'm at with that.
That's the guy that I knew for 10 years.
That's crazy.
Yeah, he conveniently met with him multiple times in California at the Snowetic Institute.
Bart conveniently never mentions that.
Bart also does a lot of other things.
Like, he pulls up evidence.
That's not nothing.
It's not nothing.
That's something.
And Bart, on that podcast, he brings forward a lot of evidence with no source.
He goes, he shows some footage that he found of like Putin watching an AI that says that the moon footage is fake.
And I'm like, where did you get this?
Because I saw it on Fox News like 10 years ago.
I'm like, well, where's this?
Pull it up.
Yeah, I was like, I don't know if it's still on there or not.
Like, Faye Ann Potter told me that her brother had a sighting on the way to the moon, and she told me that before any of that ever came out.
She said they saw something that followed them to the moon, and she wasn't sure for how many days, but she told me, Faye, I swear on my life, Faye Ann Potter told me that.
Who's her brother?
Buzz Aldrin.
Oh, Buzz is her brother.
Yes.
Oh, wow.
Yeah, Buzz is her brother.
Buzz never said anything about that.
About five years after she said that, or 10 years after she told me that, he was interviewed on BBC TV, and he goes, Yeah, we were on the way to the moon.
We were about to see if you could find it.
Buzz admitted that they had a UFO sighting the way to the moon.
Some BBC guy or some British report.
Yeah, man.
And I was like, oh my God, why didn't I get that?
Now I had.
Is it video or no?
They did get something.
Yeah.
But hang on.
So I got an interview with Buzz Aldrin in the 90s.
Yeah.
And he was going to be in the south of France because I got wind that he was having.
I talked to.
I worked on a film called The Legend of Obi Taggart with Mickey Rooney.
And it was another guy that was there.
The guy in Deliverance, who.
What was his name?
I can't remember.
I know you're talking about that.
You're going to do some praying, boy.
You better pray good.
And I was like, oh, boy.
I'll think of his name in a minute, but I'd just seen that film, like, you know, Deliverance, if you haven't seen it, you know, it's pretty disturbing.
But in any case, I'd just seen that movie, and the lead actor, the guy that gets was there on the film set.
And I talked to Mickey Rooney, and I was in my 20s, and I was making my first UFO documentary, and Jan Rooney, his wife, They're all, oh, Sonny, we were interested in UFOs and you're making your first documentary.
And I got so much shit for so long that people wonder why it doesn't bother me anymore.
I've been heckled my whole life.
They were like, yeah, we're good friends.
Mickey Rooney's like, I'm really good friends with Buzz Aldrin.
And he told me some pretty crazy stuff, you know?
So I was like, really?
And so I started digging into it.
And then ultimately I met his sister, Faye Ann Potter, who was an artist.
She was an art broker in Kentfield, California.
And we met for the first time at a restaurant called The Left Bank.
In Larkspur.
And she started talking to me about her brother.
And then between her and Mickey Rooney and Jan Rooney, who's Jan Rooney's father was a general at Roswell in 1947.
And Jan was like, Yeah, my dad told me that if the truth came about Roswell, it would have a devastating impact on organized religion.
That was a side story.
But so they said, We can get you an interview with Buzz Aldrin.
So they did.
It went on for a while.
So they got me an interview, and Buzz Aldrin ultimately said, I'll give you an interview.
I was in my 20s.
I was like, You kidding me?
This is the biggest break ever of my career.
So I was like, we get an interview with Buzz Aldrin about a UFO sighting he had.
So he goes, I'm going to be in, you know, when someone says yes at that level, you're okay.
I'm on book tour.
I'm going to be in the south of France.
I'm going to have to meet you.
And you have to meet me in Monte Carlo.
I was like, shit.
So I borrowed a bunch of money, got a small camera crew together.
I went out with Tim Coleman.
He went with me.
And Samara went with me.
Excuse me.
We get down to Monte Carlo.
And, dude, the cheapest hotel I could find was hundreds of dollars a night.
It was super expensive.
And he keeps putting the date off day after day.
The most expensive place on earth, Monte Carlo, man.
I mean, I remember looking at these boat anchors that were more expensive than a house, like one boat anchor.
I was like, I couldn't even afford a boat anchor, you know, on all these fancy, you know, it's all the gazillionaires, whatever.
Yeah.
Everything's super expensive.
You don't have any money in Monte Carlo.
Don't even think of going.
And that was me.
And he kept putting it off, putting it off.
And then finally, I called him and I said, with all due respect, sir, I mean, you know, you did agree to this interview and you did.
And I came all this way and, you know, it's with great effort.
And he goes, okay, okay, okay.
He goes, well, meet me in the lobby of my hotel.
No cameras rolling.
Meet me in the lobby of my hotel.
And he was staying in some fancy hotel tomorrow morning, whatever, nine o'clock.
No cameras rolling.
Nope.
So I'm like, okay, finally, this is going to happen.
And then I'm in the lobby and I'm with Tim Coleman, Samara Pardee.
And we're sitting down in a little cafe in the lobby, and we're having like a croissant and a coffee.
And the concierge comes over.
He's like, Mr. Fox, do you have a telephone call?
And walk over and take the call.
I'm not going to do the interview.
I said, I mean, dude, I was so deaf.
I was like, I'm sorry.
What do you mean you're not going to do the interview?
I can't do it.
He goes, Paul Allen just said that he's invested in SETI, Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence.
And now he's getting berated in the media, and I'm trying to get funding.
To get a rocket developed to allow citizens to go into space, and I can't possibly jeopardize that initiative talking about UFOs.
And my experience doesn't matter, or my sighting doesn't make any difference.
Why would it matter that I'm coming forward?
I said, Well, with all due respect, sir, it takes people of your stature to come forward to help elevate the phenomenon and the story.
I mean, your story is of tremendous importance, you know?
And he didn't say, I didn't see a UFO or I never had an experience.
He just said, I'm not doing it.
And that was it.
And then.
I swear to God.
And then, like, probably about 10 years later, I'm going to guess around that.
I broke a big story on the Phoenix Lights case where I had the governor, Five Simington, and we got invited on Larry King.
And I found out the day of, we're inside the studio, the green room.
You know, you get your makeup put on in the green room, and Buzz Aldrin's there.
And I looked over at Five Simington, the former governor of Arizona.
We were friends, we were together, we were there together.
And I was like, that son of a bitch.
Like, he, I told him what happened.
And I was like, we're going to go on live TV.
I'm going to stick it to him a little bit.
He goes, James, you really can't do that, man.
I mean, come on.
This is an iconic figure.
This is, he landed on the moon, Apollo 11, Neil Armstrong.
Like, you can't go berating this guy.
Like, you know, so I had to sit there and I go on live, Larry King live show with Buzz Aldrin, staring him in the face.
And I was like, I don't want to give away his sister.
I don't want to give away her name.
I was just like, and I did poke and prod, and there was a guy.
Darcy Weir, that did a short segment.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And he talked about it and he dug up the Larry King live stuff.
And when I got back, and this is my biggest regret, no, I have a lot of regrets, but when I got back from that experience, I called Faye Ann Potter.
And I remember like yesterday, and she goes, Somebody got to him.
And I said, What do you mean somebody got to him?
She goes, He won't even talk to me about it anymore.
Like my own brother.
She says, Somebody got to him.
That's what she said.
I swear to God.
God, that's what she said to me.
Why I never thought that I would never expected her to die.
I didn't think like she wasn't sick.
I went to her house a number of times.
We used to have lunch together.
I never even knew she was sick.
And all of a sudden she's gone.
And I never got her on camera.
I was like, oh.
So that's why, if you want, I'll help arrange a meeting with Buzz Aldrin.
Get him on camera, man.
Hold his feet to the fire.
Why the hell not?
He's going to be gone soon.
Right.
He's in his 90s.
You know?
Yeah.
It doesn't harm.
Like, I'll help make that happen.
Yeah.
And like, Also, Neil Armstrong.
He did two interviews in his entire life.
You're the first man to walk on the moon.
Yeah.
The biggest achievement of mankind, and you can do two.
One of them was the, like, what was it, the 20th or the 50th anniversary of the moon landing.
And it was like this cryptic message that he said, like, that the hidden truths will be revealed.
Maybe that's a couple of things.
Okay.
When they got back and they were put in that quarantine, they looked like they'd seen Jesus.
Yes.
Okay.
They were either burdened, in my humble opinion, and I could be totally wrong.
Two options.
One, it was a big hoax.
Two, they had an encounter.
With a UFO or whatever, and they were told to shut your mouth about it.
And that would give a similar reaction, in my opinion.
If you went out and you had an encounter with a UFO in space, that would rock your world.
Yeah.
Then you came back and they said, You shut your pie hole.
That never happened.
That could have happened.
I don't know.
It could have.
According to his sister, they did see something.
And according to Buzz Aldrin, he did see something.
He admitted it on camera.
He said it was, they didn't want to bring it to the attention too much to NASA, but they were asking, like, Where's this one thing jettisoned?
Is it there?
And it's like, no, it's not that.
And they eliminated all these things and they didn't want to say, hey, man, we're being followed by a UFO because they were worried that the mission would be scrapped.
He says it.
He says, you're going to look it up.
Anyway.
Yeah.
And then there's like Michael Collins, who was on that first panel, that first interview that they all did after the mission, right?
Where they all looked like they saw Jesus.
The one guy's like, I don't remember seeing any stars.
Remember?
They're asking about the stars.
Like, I don't remember seeing any stars.
Then he releases a book.
A couple years later, where there's a whole chapter.
The stars were so magnificent.
The stars were beautiful.
Just like so many weird things like that, you know?
On top of the fact that all of the data and the telemetry data and all the technology was accidentally destroyed.
Edgar Mitchell, oh man, the story he told me, the level of detail, he's a damn good liar if he was lying to me.
Damn good liar.
A lot of people think they could have been MKUltra.
Like maybe they were somehow like.
I mean, I got my scientist friend.
I'm no one to debate the moon landing thing.
I just say, oh no, dude, I'm not.
Well, I do know that some of the scientists that I'm friends with that talked about there's this reason, there's this reason, but whatever.
Point is, there's aliens in Varzim.
Exactly.
What's crazier?
What's crazier?
Oh, my God.
Right?
I know.
So, what's next for you, bro?
What's.
Well, I got the event at the National Press Club, and I think this is coming out.
Oh, yeah, that's coming out.
Yes, this is going to come out right before that happens.
I worked with.
Specific member of Congress.
I don't know if this individual wants their name out, but basically calling upon them, I need help because the immigration lawyer is like, hey, man, if you're ever going to get some weight from the American government, now's the time.
Reach out to the consulate in Rio.
You know, that happened.
They were half the crew.
There were a number of people that were approved.
Then there were a number of people that were under two people completely denied, a couple people approved, and then four or five people that were under additional review.
They need more information.
They contacted me.
I gave them a detailed account.
Yes, I'm sponsoring the event.
Yes, I'm paying for everybody.
Yes, we're flying out for this thing.
I'm a filmmaker.
I send them all the links to my films.
These are witnesses that we want to have this event.
And this went on for a while.
Reached out to a member of Congress.
They called the consulate in Rio.
Went on and on and on and dragged out.
And I was like, could you guys come to a decision?
My Lord, this has been going on for two months.
And then just a few weeks ago, they pulled the plug and said they're all denied.
Even the people that were initially approved.
Were denied.
By the US?
By the US.
That is correct.
So, yeah, I was devastated.
But the whole time when this was going on, I had an alternative plan, and that was I'm going to have to go to Brazil again.
My sister had just died, by the way, just a few weeks ago.
So I'm like, with my, oh, I can't even tell you what a roller coaster ride it's been.
You know, with my sister, she had multiple sclerosis.
She was like, if it ever gets to the point where I can no longer take care of myself, James, I hope you understand and respect my decision.
I got to check out.
I can't.
She got stuck in bed towards the end.
She was right handed, right arm gone, legs gone.
She had a little movement in her left arm, which she wasn't even left handed, she was right handed.
She could barely drink and feed herself.
She could speak fine.
She was, you know, and she's like, if it gets to the point where I can no longer go to the bathroom by myself, get out of bed by myself, I'm done.
Italian Passport Interview00:05:52
And I need you to respect that decision.
So she did the whole thing, she had to go get a medical and psychological evaluation and to help the process legally.
And so this has happened.
I'm dealing with that.
I'm dealing with all this event that I'm putting on.
I can't even tell you all the moving parts on the American side, on the Brazilian side.
So much stress, man.
Borrowing a quarter of a million dollars to put this event on.
And it's like, oh, people have no idea.
Like, if someone could have followed me around with a camera for the last nine months to see what I go through, what we go through, our team goes through to make these things happen.
So I had a contingency plan, and that was to go and film with my co producer, Alini, and Marco Leal.
Lean across and get statements in an official setting like podium flags, Brazilian flags.
So we worked in conjunction with people, our contacts there.
The mayor was helping out and we got an official spot and we filmed, I don't know, 10 or 12 really nice, you know, 90 second, two minute statements, very official looking, looking right at the barrel, you know, right down the barrel of the camera.
And that was our plan B is like, okay, we'll get the people that got accepted, which were three.
It's amazing the number that he got accepted.
Yeah, well, that's, yeah.
So, yeah, he's like, you know, he's like, actually, I'm Brazilian Italian and I have an Italian passport.
So I said, well, is your Italian passport valid?
And it was like, oh, I got to take a look at it.
And things were just, I was like, I need your passport.
Turns out it wasn't valid.
So we had to like go for the reapplication process.
You know, that whole thing took forever.
He had to go in for an interview.
Like, And then he's like, Well, I can't go without my wife, my health.
I just had a heart attack.
I've had prostate cancer.
Then I had surgery.
My health isn't great.
So I'm dealing with that.
And then I've got the forensic pathologist trying to get him and his wife and get his visas.
Now he didn't have a European passport, but he's a prominent doctor.
Chances are he has every reason to come back to the country.
He runs all these hospitals.
So his visa got accepted.
Then his wife had to get that.
Oh my God, this whole thing took months.
Oh my Lord.
And so then we were like, all right, well, we've got three extremely prominent.
Then we had the crash witness, Marco Carlos de Souza.
And then we have a senator, a sitting member of the Senate in Brazil, also attending as of right now the event.
So we've got four.
And then I've got video statements that we'll be presenting on a big screen, very official setting.
And I'll provide copies of that to all the various media outlets.
So, they can, if they want to report on it, they can show the clips.
And this is like my name.
Wow.
I swear on my, you know, blah, blah, blah, that this was what happened.
And then they give a brief summary of it.
And we've got like 10 of those.
And so we're putting on that event and then we're taking a short recess at the National Press Club at the ballroom and then we're having American side and they're basically making a plea to the current executive branch for immunity or relaxed restrictions on their NDAs.
They're essentially saying, okay, we understand that the technology will probably have to be remain classified for national security reasons.
However, the biologics do not and that directly ties into Virginia and it's a plea to the executive branch for immunity and so they can be.
You know, subpoenaed and testify openly in a congressional setting to reveal these details.
So, this is all happening.
It's been a colossal undertaking.
Yeah, I can fall on my face and fail miserably.
But as my dad said to me years ago when I was having a panic attack on the biggest event I ever did at the time, which is the National Press Club event that I had made a movie about called I Know What I Saw.
And I was, he was like, My dad was a quadriplegic with MS. And he's like, Son, he's like, Because I was panicking.
Because it happens.
You're doing a big, so much stake.
Hundreds of thousands of borrowed dollars.
So stressful, man, because there's so many variables outside your control, it's insanity.
And he's like, You know, son, what's the worst case scenario?
His voice was really weak, and I rattled off like 10 things that I was terrified they were gonna all go wrong.
And he very calmly sat there, nodded, he looked at me, and he goes, Well, the way I see it, the worst case scenario is you never went for it.
And I thought, He's right, that's so true.
I'm going for it.
That's amazing, bro.
You're an inspiration, James.
Oh, thank you.
You are a fucking national treasure.
You got to keep pulling this thread, bro.
I'm doing the best I can.
You're doing an amazing job.
Thank you for doing this.
And thanks for doing this podcast.
Thanks for inviting me on again.
It's been a pleasure.
I hope we can do another one.
You're the man.
We'll link everything below.
We'll link the, well, if there's like a link to the, by the time this comes out, I'm sure you're going to do it.
Moment of Contact, new revelations of alien encounters.
And I say that because the old version of Moment of Contact, there's been some confusion.
Right, right.
It's on Prime Video.
Apple TV, Google Play, that sort of thing is for rent and for buy.
And I understand if you don't want to spot the $6.99 or whatever, sit tight.
I'll have it available for free on YouTube movies in a couple of months.
And I appreciate everyone's support.
And the event for the National Press Club is on January 20th, 2026, this year.
Okay.
One event starts at the National Ballroom at the National Press Club, National Ball, yeah, the ballroom at 11 a.m., ends at 1, and there's another one from 2 to 3 to 2 to 3 30.