Nelson Dellis explores ancient Greek memory techniques and modern competition strategies, contrasting trained skills with natural ability while discussing the "memory palace" method. The conversation shifts to controversial paranormal claims, examining skepticism around telepathy demonstrations, remote viewing experiments, and alleged fakery by memory champions like BJ Shahi. Ultimately, the episode challenges listeners to quiet their analytical minds to access intuition, suggesting that genius and spiritual phenomena may exist on a spectrum of human consciousness beyond standard scientific verification. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, WAV2VEC2_ASR_BASE_960H, sat-12l-sm, script v26.04.01, and large-v3-turbo
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Becoming a Memory Champion00:15:26
Nelson.
Yes.
How the fk do you become a memory champion?
Yeah.
Trust me, when I was a kid, I never thought that I'd be one or have anything to do with a good memory.
But I started, wow, it's like since 2009 ish, because my grandmother had Alzheimer's.
And I was concerned for myself if that was my future.
I was young, I was in my 20s.
So.
Not a problem that was nearby, but I just was curious, what could I do now to improve my memory?
And one of the first things I discovered was these memory competitions.
And lo and behold, the people who compete in these things can do phenomenal feats of memory through trained practice.
And that was the hook for me that was just like, okay, well, maybe I could do that.
And it just kind of took off from there.
So you decided you wanted to learn like tricks to improve your memory.
And that's how you discovered there's this whole like, Olympic circuit of memory champions that compete all around the world.
Yeah.
And then, so, so, what did you start doing to how did you work your way up to this level?
Because I'm sure there's like a lot of work that has to be done to until you can like get to that level.
Yeah.
You know, I didn't know at first, like when I first was interested in memory in general, I was like, well, I want to improve my memory, but like, what can I do?
What are tangible things I can do?
And then when I heard about the memory championship, I was like, okay, here are records and events that happen at a competition that are measured.
I could use those as like benchmarks to train myself.
You know, it gives me a quantifiable thing that I can work towards.
And so that was really helpful for me because I need goal oriented steps like that to master things.
And yeah, I just kept getting better.
I had meticulous notes on my performance and I would train my memorization of numbers, memorization of playing cards, names, lists of words, all the things that were in the competition.
And I just try to get better and better, try to get to the current record that existed at that time.
And all with the goal of, you know, just.
Bettering my memory, not necessarily to win or be the best, but it just became such an obsession of mine.
Yeah.
Every day, every minute, I'd just be trying to memorize stuff.
Yeah.
So, so like one of the biggest questions for me is what is the main difference?
Because, like, obviously, I'm sure everybody has somebody in their life that they've encountered that just has a natural, like, good memory or has a better memory than that, than they do.
Right.
And we've all, like, I've heard the term of people having photographic memories or, um, Different types of like memories, like you just equate that with somebody like being smarter, having a higher IQ.
But like, what is the difference between somebody who's just really smart at remembering things and somebody who can memorize a deck of cards?
Is there a difference?
Yeah, that's a tough question to answer.
I'd say humans generally have the same memory abilities.
You know, obviously, like you said, there's people that just have a knack for names or they just remember all sorts of facts.
You've had, you've talked with Jesse, right?
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
His memory of facts is just insane.
That's amazing.
Yeah.
I don't have that.
Like, I can't naturally do that.
I have to use my techniques.
And some people can do that.
And he probably can't tell you how he's able to do that.
He's just got that.
And that's hard to pin down why one person may have that versus another.
But we all have that ability to train it in a sense.
You know, some people think more visually, some people maybe focus more or are more around things that are of more interest to them.
So that's the kind of things that they remember.
It really depends on their life circumstance and experience.
But I'm not denying that there's people who have a knack for that.
But I don't know if it's like an easy thing to explain why they do or they don't.
But there are techniques to kind of get to that place.
And with training, you can get a lot better to a point like that.
Yeah.
One of the things that blew my mind about this whole memory stuff, this whole, there's like this whole world of memory training and like just like the study of and the fascination of memory.
And it goes back to like way back into ancient Greek stuff.
And there's a guy, Simonides, which is talked about in the book, the Moonwalking with Einstein book, who, I guess it was in like the fourth century or whatever, and he was a performer, I think, and he was like performing music in front of people, and then the whole place crumbled, and he was trying to like use his visual memory to figure out where people were so he could like pull the bodies out.
Yeah, yeah.
And, you know, that book also like spends a lot of time delving into like ancient Greek literature and how like the style of writing changed and went from scrolls to actual codexes where there was pages.
And like, you know, I was talking to a classicist buddy of mine this morning, I was like, I was like, how did these people back then go through if they wanted to find something written in a scroll?
How would you figure out how to do it?
Because there's no breaks in the words.
It's just never ending words with no breaks, no punctuation on a long scroll.
There were no spaces, right?
He's like, no, you didn't.
People had to have better memories.
That was just like a huge value that they had back then being able to memorize shit.
It's just wild.
It just seems like, obviously, I've talked about this ad nauseum.
On just with the folks that I've had through here is that people are losing their memory because they're overcome, they're using technology to compensate for it nowadays.
And it seems like it's going that road leads to somewhere where we're going to have basically no memory left, right?
Yeah, yeah, no.
I mean, memory is something that we've always needed up until somewhat recently.
And right, like you said, because we have all these other tools that can replace it, we don't use it as much.
But the fact is that.
Thousands of years ago, and even before the Greeks, this was how information was passed down through civilizations, traditions were shared to the next generation.
Without those memory skills, none of that would have survived.
And you had to have that.
If you wanted to be an intelligent person or to carry on your city or town's lore or whatever, you had to have that trained memory.
There was no other option.
Or it would wither away, right?
And what's fascinating about it, I've heard the Simonides story.
I didn't know.
I haven't heard the performer side of it.
I always thought he was someone.
It actually wasn't.
It wasn't.
Maybe he was a poet, but I think he was like a musical poet and he would do performances.
Okay.
Yeah.
Because I think most of the stuff back then was musical, especially Homer.
So it was all, I don't know if it, I don't believe that it was, I'm not sure, but I don't think it was, it wasn't musical as a, on purpose to help people remember it.
It was just musical because I think in around the time of Homer, And up until, I don't know, like the second century or something like this, that the Greeks just spoke in rhythms.
Yeah.
They spoke musically.
They didn't just, they didn't speak like me and you do.
It was rhythmic and it had a beat, it had like a flow to it, which is crazy.
Yeah.
But I mean, the story is somewhat that he stepped out or was summoned outside and then the whole thing crashed.
There it goes.
Lyric poet.
Yeah.
Oh, there you go.
Yeah.
But yeah, to come to identify the dead bodies who had been crushed by this.
Collapsing hall, or whatever, he imagined the positions of the people at the table, their locations.
And that spawned this idea.
Well, I don't know if it necessarily spawned it, but that's the famous story where people talk about this memory palace idea.
Right.
Where by location, you can actually place information and remember it really well because our brains remember spatial information really well.
Yeah.
I did that exercise in the book, in the Einstein book, and it works phenomenally.
Like, it's incredible.
Yeah.
So the idea is like if you want to memorize something, right?
Anything, you kind of like break it into chunks and then you basically associate it with a physical location.
Yep.
So there's a few parts to it, right?
First, you have the information that you're trying to memorize, and it's usually going to be something abstract, you know, in terms of our brains don't really like to memorize numbers and passwords, right?
This is all abstract symbols, right?
Generally.
So in recent times, they're new.
They're new for our brains.
Our brains were not designed to memorize stuff like that.
It's designed to memorize pictures, visuals that have associations to things that we know.
Mm hmm.
That's one part of it, converting what you're trying to memorize into pictures.
The second part is how do you organize that?
Where do you place it in your mind so that you can go back and retrieve it in a reliable way?
And that's where the memory palace technique comes in so handy because you're placing it or attaching it to a physical location that you know well that you're thinking about.
So when you go through your house or palace, if you have a palace, you have these ordered locations in your house.
You walk through your front door, then there's the kitchen over here and the stairways, whatever.
You can attach images for things that you're memorizing.
On those locations, and the location preserves the memory of the order of things and the structure and the organization, right?
Which is when people try to recall things and they forget, it's not that they forgot, it's really that they can't retrieve it, right?
Sometimes they know it's in their mind, they just can't get it out because they didn't have an active way of placing it knowingly in their brain.
That's the big problem, right?
So, when you did these memory competitions, what sort of shit did you have to remember?
And did you have to go around to a bunch of like locations and Store stuff in my mind, yeah, yeah, um, not physically, but uh, yeah, no, that's what I mean.
Like, yeah, you go to a place and like walk around, be like, okay, I'm gonna put this thing here, yeah.
It, you know, as a trained memory athlete, will have dozens to a hundred or hundreds of memory palaces, different ones to store different kinds of things.
Wow, um, depending on the size of the information, you need more locations.
Um, so I have this whole like catalog of memory palaces that I go through.
That's amazing, dude.
And on a competition day, yeah, I've got to go through the different ones, okay, I'm gonna use.
You know, my childhood home for this set of numbers.
I'm going to use my ex girlfriend's apartment for this one.
A hotel I stayed in once that was memorable on this vacation for this set of numbers and whatever.
So, how do you organize all of that?
You just like pick, let's just say you picked up a book you want to memorize, right?
Tomorrow you go and buy a book you want to memorize.
So, you would say, how would that process work for you?
You would read the book and then you would afterwards think of a location that you haven't already used to store memory and Associate it like spend time sitting there working through where to store each memory of each chapter of that book, right?
Yeah, there's a few things to go into that.
First, is you know, I have memory palaces that I use for training when I memorize numbers every day or cards every day.
I'm kind of visiting the same ones that are kind of designed for that, but then if it's new information, like say I have a book plopped on my desk and I'm going to memorize it, I'm going to create a new memory palace for that specific information.
So when I want to recall information from that book, I know it's only in that memory palace that I designed for it.
So then the question is okay, what do I build?
Or what do I think of?
What's the memory palace?
I need to decide what is the route?
Is it, well, the place, first of all?
I mean, I can create one on the spot, or I could go to a museum and decide, oh, this will be, I'm just going to map this into a memory palace, or I can use some place that I've been to that I haven't thought of as a memory palace yet.
And then I need to know what I'm memorizing, how much information is there, so I know how many locations I need.
So that's a big part of mapping out, especially a big project like that, memorizing a book.
Like, am I memorizing every single word, like verbatim, or just generally the important things, key ideas, stuff that I want to put?
Take away, you know, that also depends, right?
Like when you're going to memorize something, what are you actually going to memorize?
And is it important to memorize everything, or can I just, you know, is there certain stuff that I already kind of know or can piece together through logic?
And the rest, maybe, or some other points I need to memorize.
Yeah.
Deciding that's important too before you like go out and waste all this memory palace real estate on, you know, stuff that actually isn't that important to memorize.
Right.
That's fascinating because I was telling you before we started recording that, like, sometimes when I'm listening to audiobooks, I can recall.
Like, if I'm listening to it driving from here to my house, I'll drive that same route the next day and I'll have that moment pop into my head when I was listening to the audiobook, right when I drove past like a specific building or something like that.
It's so weird that, like, there is a legitimate association that's like hardwired into us with physical locations and like learning stuff.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it's the same with music, right?
Imagine the first time you heard this album that is so important to you.
It teleports you.
You can be right there.
Like, I know where I was when I first heard this.
You have these strong memories of when you were blasting that song or who you were with.
It's something about music.
I think it goes way back past Simonides that as humans, generally, we are, our brains are storytelling machines through stories and music and poetry and beats and rhythm.
That's how we remember things.
That's how we were able to survive and pass on ideas, which is ultimately how we were able to survive.
Until modern day, now we don't need to do that.
But that's how we had to.
Isn't smell also like super hardcore linked with memory?
Yeah, yeah.
I think that was like the most, the sense that is the most commonly associated with memory, right?
Yeah.
Who was I just talking to about this?
I was training somebody and they were asking me, oh, well, the memory champion can't remember something.
Look at this.
I forget.
I do forget.
You can ask my wife.
She's the one that can attest to that the most.
But no, we were talking about how she's like, oh, I've heard that memory is really strong for a smell, it is really strongly related to memory.
And I was like, yeah, yeah, it is.
And she was saying, Oh, if I can just turn my images that I'm memorizing into smells, then I'll remember it faster or better.
And I was like, In theory, yes.
And smell memory is so potent.
I mean, if you get a whiff of something from, say, your kindergarten class, like there used to be these letterboards from when I went to kindergarten, I guess.
And I remember years ago, I came across the same thing and I was like, Wow, what a nostalgic thing.
And I sniffed it and I was like, you know, in the matrix.
Teleported.
Teleported.
I was there.
Right.
And I'm sure many people have had a similar experience.
Yeah.
But if I were to ask you to just imagine, I don't know, a certain smell, like, I mean, there's certain polarizing smells like smoke, you could probably imagine, right?
The smell of smoke.
But in terms of your imagination right now, if you're thinking about it, it's kind of elusive.
Like you can describe it.
Encoding Books into Pictures00:15:06
Yeah.
It's like a bitter, smoky smell.
But are you really.
Experiencing it in your mind when you imagine a smell?
Probably not.
Versus if I said, A picture of an elephant, you can almost see the elephant.
Right.
Right.
So, the smell thing, I think, is super powerful when you can get it to hit, like you get the experience.
But, to actually conjure it up in your memory is difficult because you have to have the right words to describe it.
And it's not like a true visceral experience when you imagine it in your visual space.
Yeah, you can't just pull that up at will, like that smell.
I remember thinking about this years ago when I was just starting memory stuff, and I had gone to wash my hands.
I had this soap that smelled really like marzipan y, and I loved marzipan.
And I went back to my table and I was like, I wonder if I could like try to generate that smell in my mind.
And it had gone.
You know, it's like I couldn't.
I could say it was marzipan smelling, but that was it.
You know, it's just like, but if I had smelled it again, it's like, oh yeah, there it is.
You know, I don't know what it is about smell that makes it so elusive in that way.
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So, what type of stuff do you actually have to memorize in these competitions that you do?
Yeah, it depends on the competition.
So, there's the US championship and then there's like international world championships.
And some of them have different standards and events.
But the US one is a day long and the morning is four different events, memorizing numbers.
You get five minutes to memorize as many digits as you can in a row.
Then you have a deck of cards you got to memorize as fast as possible.
Like a full deck of playing cards, names and faces.
So you get a whole packet of headshots of random people with first and last names.
Get 15 minutes to memorize that.
And then you have poetry.
So they'll give you a random unpublished poem, 50 lines, and you got to memorize it for 15 minutes and then recall it.
And then the afternoon, the top seven or eight, it changes from year to year, go to like a playoff round on stage, like elimination rounds, and they have to memorize lists of words.
There's a tea party event where you have to memorize stuff about people who come on stage and say their name, where they're from, their hobbies, their car they drive, their pet name.
Wow.
And then the finale is two decks of cards in five minutes.
And it's usually three remaining competitors and they have to say the next card one by one until.
So you have to take the deck of cards and you have to flip through it and then you have to put it down and then recite the order of every single card.
Yeah, the 104 cards.
Yeah, two decks.
How do you do that?
A lot of practice, but it's.
Using a memory palace to store different images that represent the cards.
That's the very basic idea.
Okay.
There are a few different techniques on how to encode the cards into pictures because it's not like I'm looking at an Ace of Hearts and thinking of an Ace of Hearts in my living room.
I have a person, an action, and an object associated with each card.
And that's one of the strategies to make these cards each have those three components.
And then every triplet of cards I can group as a person doing a thing with an object.
And it becomes like a little mini scene representing three cards.
And I place that in the location of a memory palace.
And then the next location, I put three more cards and so on.
Yeah.
So there's a lot going on there.
You got to know your memory palaces really well.
You also got to know your images really well for the cards.
Like I look at the Ace of Hearts.
That's my friend Arno.
Queen of Hearts is my mother.
King of Hearts is my dad.
I'm the Ace of Diamonds.
Like I know those.
So when I see the card, it's like I'm seeing the person.
You know, it's so well trained at this point.
Oh, that's wild.
And same with numbers.
It's pretty similar.
Yeah.
And so do you already have your physical location memory palace in your head before you even start doing this?
Right.
Yeah.
So I have my set of memory palaces that I use for training cards.
So the day of or in the finals, let's say, I'm in my mind thinking, like, okay, I'm going to use this memory palace.
It feels fresh.
I haven't used it in a while.
It's like clean and ready to be used.
Yeah.
That's what I was going to ask you next.
I'm like, I was going to say, can you like do a reset of a memory palace?
So we will tape over them.
Tape over them.
Yeah.
Practice.
You have to kind of give them some breathing room.
If you do them back to back on the same memory palace, you'll have echoes from previous.
Storings or memories.
So you want to avoid that.
So that's why the memory palace I'll probably decide to use in a finals.
It will be one that I haven't used in maybe a few days.
So it's kind of pristine.
Like just the cleaning lady came in, you know, and brushed it up or whatever.
Spring cleaning.
Yeah, exactly.
But yeah.
And even still, like in competition on stage with the championship on the line, like, you know, memories.
Hugely affected by stress and nerves, and in that situation, I may have it down, but the moment I'm supposed to say the next card, there's been times where I just freeze up, you know?
And, right.
So, one thing I did recently, which wasn't on purpose, this was before I knew anything about any of this memory stuff, was I was reading a book and I decided to put a specific Spotify playlist in my headphones while I was reading this book.
And I probably read the book.
It was probably like a 600 page book.
I probably read it in like two weeks.
Okay.
And every time I would sit down to read it for like 30 minutes to an hour, I would just repeat this soundtrack in my ears.
And for some reason, I was able to recall that book better than any other book I've ever read.
Oh, shit.
And that was the only time I've ever done that.
It was cool because it was like a sound, it was like a badass soundtrack in my ears while I was listening.
So it was like I was watching a movie while I was reading the book.
That's cool.
Do you remember which soundtrack it was?
Or what was it?
It was the Inception soundtrack.
Okay.
And it was Annie Jacobson's Nuclear War book.
Oh, goodness.
Yeah.
That sounds like a really good combo.
Yeah.
Cool.
And then you just decided to do that for, was there a specific reason?
She was coming on the show to talk about that book.
So I was reading it before she came in.
And the only time I would read it would be before bed.
I would just sit in bed for 30, 45 minutes before I fall asleep and just put the headphones in and just read.
I had the PDF on my laptop and I would just read, you know.
15 20 pages with that music in the background.
And was the music idea like more of a focus thing?
Like if I put this track on or this album on?
Yeah, it would tune out other noises.
It would tune out my wife's scrolling TikTok next to me.
And I figured it might just lock me in more to the story.
And it did.
It totally made me feel like I was watching a movie but reading text.
And I think it worked.
I can recall a lot of that book.
People will listen to certain kinds of music to study, right?
Lo fi beats or whatever.
Yeah, I'm wondering though, if a similar way to the locations of memory palaces, what if you, for each book you read, You listen to a different soundtrack for each book.
I wonder if that would be a similar kind of association you could use.
Yeah, no.
And we had talked about it before we started that location, changing the location of where you read books can also do a similar enhancing of your memory of what you read, where you were when you read the thing.
Right.
I've never tried it with music other than just to like focus and kind of like you said, drown out noise.
Yeah.
And I don't know if that, I don't think that would work with all music, right?
No, I don't think so.
It's lyric heavy.
You're going to be distracted, right?
Even if you can zone or tune out the words, it's got to be instrumental.
It can't be like mute.
It can't be like, you know.
Because your brain is naturally going to try to listen.
And that's this multitasking thing that would be difficult to do, especially if you're reading.
Yeah.
At the same time.
Do you notice any difference when it comes to retaining information when you compare listening to books versus actually reading books?
Totally.
I'm all about like analog.
Yeah.
Not that I always do that because I also appreciate, uh, My time, and I have so much to do that I'll listen often to just audiobooks and at 2x, you know, at certain times, which isn't great.
Yeah.
But I'm really good at deciding what I want to put to absorb as an audiobook at a faster speed.
You know, it's usually stuff that's like a self help book will be very repetitive.
You know, if there's an interesting part that I really want to kind of like absorb better or focus in on, I'll slow it down, maybe even repeat it a few times.
But, um, If there's other books that I really want to savor, you know, I slow down.
And I'll often try to do it in like analog form, hold the book, read it.
The actual book, yeah.
Read it in different places.
That's hard to know, like, what necessarily a book, which book would deserve that unless it's kind of pre planned.
Like, for example, I love Lord of the Rings and I try to reread that every year.
And I will always.
Really?
Yeah, yeah.
I will never listen to it on an audiobook.
I would need the book that smells and like has been worn, you know?
And I need to read some of it sitting by the fire when it's kind of cold and near the end of the year, Christmas time, you know?
That's important to me.
But then there are books that I just like need to get through or want to get through.
And it's like I have the general idea of what it's trying to say that I don't need to listen to every single thing with intense focus that I remember it, you know, verbatim.
Is that the primary reason why people would claim that you can retain stuff better when you actually read the physical book versus listening to it?
Because of the other associations, like the touch, the feel, the smell, the location of it.
Yeah.
Going back to what I said at the start, that we remember pictures of things like visuals.
Like, what is a visual?
A visual is all of your senses interacting.
It's not, I know the word is visual, so it sounds like it's just your eyes or your mind's eye, but it's all of that.
So if you can incorporate that into a sitting of reading, like you can touch the book, you're holding some physical object in a space that, you know, And you're, you know, you got the pages there and you can see the words.
I think that's more of a memorable experience than something zipping through your ear.
Although, you know, you remembered some of it where you were driving, right?
Yeah.
But I think there's more going on when you have.
But I've driven that same route listening to hundreds of different books and podcasts.
So it's kind of like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Not a very good memory palace.
No.
It's my daily drive, basically.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Have you tried making any other memory palaces besides the one in the example in Moonwalk?
I did the example in the book in my mom's house, but I haven't tried making any others yet.
And you know what?
Now that I think about it, I forgot the one that I created during the book.
But my point was that that feels like a task in itself to do that, to sit down and actually think through a memory palace.
Sure.
And associate something with it.
But now I'm like, I really want to buy, like, a.
I can't remember the last time I read a paper book.
Oh, yeah.
You know, it's either always audio or it's the digital PDF version.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, like, it's got me really motivated to, like, actually buy a physical book and pick a unique spot.
And, like, and I also like the way you broke it down in your video on your YouTube channel.
Like, you're like, this is 500 or 400 pages.
It will take me eight 30 minute chunks to finish this.
I can do it here, here, and here.
Like, that was great, dude.
No, I don't do that all the time, but there's books that I just, like, Want to get through.
And I'm having a hard time getting my reading done for whatever's going on in my life.
Breaking it down into these chunks that I can visualize is super helpful.
Right, right.
Which is helpful for me too, because one of the biggest parts of me preparing for podcasts is reading shit, like reading books or listening to podcasts or whatever.
And it's really hard for me to structure my life around reading a book.
Yeah.
Especially when it's text.
Like I can do it when I'm driving or I'm at the gym or I'm walking with my kids or whatever.
But that's a really special and important thing.
Skill and tool, I feel like, to have, especially when it goes hand in hand with doing podcasts with people that write these books.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, it's intentional.
Like when you can do stuff while you're on the go doing something else, yeah, that's great.
You know, killing two birds with one stone.
But if you can take the time to sit down with a book, like you're saying something with that experience.
And of course, it's going to be more memorable when you have that intention going in.
Yeah.
That's really, and you hit it on the head that where, you know, doing a memory palace exercise is a lot of work to do, but that's the whole point, I think.
It's like, If I strip down what memory techniques are, it's really just paying a lot of attention to something, like through these elaborate methods, you know, like sitting down, thinking of this place to store these images and coming up with images for the thing.
Yeah.
You're really spending a lot of time devoted to that, those units of information, you know?
Yeah.
And the same goes for the book, right?
Like if you sit down, hold it, read it, interact with it, like take notes, underline stuff, like on the paper, like hear the sound of you scratching, you know, underline there, like that means something.
Yeah, totally.
Yeah.
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What country takes the most wins when it comes to these international memory championships?
Good question.
It fluctuates.
During my era, my heyday, it was the Germans.
Really?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Man.
No shit.
The Germans.
Yeah, yeah.
I wouldn't have expected that.
Yeah.
And then it switched to the Swedes for a second.
And now, and there was the Mongolians that they have like crazy schools in Mongolia where they just teach this stuff to little kids.
Um, and teach memory stuff, memory things, they have memory schools.
Yeah, whoa, they're wild.
Those records, I don't even know what the records are these days.
Um, and then Chinese, they've done crazy stuff recently too.
Yeah, well, the Chinese are really good at math, right?
Because their language is somehow tied into math, I think.
Yeah, well, they have shorter, uh, syllabic words for.
The digits zero through nine.
So, you know, when you think of digit span tests where like we can hold numbers in our head, we have numbers like seven, two syllables, right?
Zero, right, is two syllables, whereas they're all just one.
So, if you think about how we can recite a number in our head, they can on average recite longer numbers or hold longer numbers in their memory with no techniques, just by reciting in their mind the number over and over again because they can say more in the span of a passing thought, you know?
Yeah, totally.
Well, I feel like definitely, I feel like I absolutely remember the stuff I'm most interested in the most, right?
Like in school, when you're forced to learn stuff that you're not really interested in, you're just sort of like going through the process of passing this grade, passing this class.
I don't feel like most kids are into any of that stuff.
Like if there's something I'm reading that I'm really into, I will absolutely recall it way better, right?
And that like pulls you through the book in itself when you're really interested in that topic.
Yeah.
So that's the power of attention.
You know, we direct our attention to something.
The more intensely we do that, the more we're focused on it and the more you remember.
And that's kind of the heart of the encoding process of the memory techniques how do I turn that complicated, dry thing into something that lights up my brain in an exciting way?
You know, so all those card symbols, Ace of Hearts, Two of Clubs, it's just a number and a little fancy picture, right?
But what if I look at Two of Clubs and it's Jesus, right?
And Four of Clubs is Harry Potter.
Like, yeah, that's a lot more interesting.
Yeah, totally.
People can pay attention better.
Yeah, it's crazy that like this stuff isn't taught like mainstream at all.
It's like super obscure knowledge.
Yeah.
And that's, they teach it in Mongolia.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I don't know what, who decided to create schools for it.
Oh, look, Mongolia, China, Vietnam frequently rank among the top countries in memory skills.
Vietnam's come up.
Yeah, that's true.
Mongolia holds the top position.
Wow.
Yeah.
I wonder why.
Why do they value memory more than the other?
To teach that to kids, you know?
Yeah.
No, I love that.
And Vietnam has some schools now too.
Algeria, I didn't know that.
India, yeah.
That makes sense.
The U.S. had a stretch.
I didn't do great at the World Championships.
I think my best was like seventh place, but there was a guy after me, Alex Mullen, who won the World Championships twice, I believe, or three times.
Really?
Yeah.
Was he from the U.S.?
Yeah, U.S. guy.
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
Mongolians have a strong memory due to a combination of cultural traditions, formal training, and modern education.
Focus on mental athletics.
Mental athletics, wow.
Historically, nomadic life required memorization, memorizing extensive information without the written word.
While today, national curriculum and specialized academics actively train memory techniques, contributing to their success in memory competitions.
That's really, really interesting.
I have a few friends through the memory world from Mongolia, and their nomadic tradition is very strong.
I don't want to speak too much because I don't know, but I can see that their traditions there are important to them.
So I would mention that.
Yeah.
Well, it's weird that Socrates refused to write anything down.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
You know?
Yeah.
It's so, it's kind of ironic because, you know, thanks to all the people around him that were writing shit down, we know about him.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
Right.
What's interesting about, you know, these old tales of memories and memory palace, like the Simonides stories and the ancient Greek methods.
I mean, when I first started this, that's all I had heard that these were ancient Greek techniques developed by the ancient Greeks.
But that's not necessarily true.
I mean, it had no different way before.
Yeah, and other civilizations have.
Versions of this.
I mean, in Africa, there were tribes that would use these, I think they're called lakusas, which are these kind of memory boards, these pieces of wood that they would stick shells or little rocks, and that would be their tangible memory palace.
And they could store or imagine parts of their oral tradition or, yeah, their traditions on these boards.
And these boards, these physical boards, would hold, you know, like visually, Attached to those markers, all those stories and things that we passed down.
There's even stories that, like, the Nazca lines were potentially memory palaces to store information.
Yeah.
I don't know where I heard that one, but the Nazca lines were memory palaces.
Yeah.
I don't know.
That's bizarre.
Yeah.
There's a lady in Australia, Lynn Kelly, she wrote a book called The Memory Code, and it talks about all these past civilizations and how they use versions of memory palaces or memory techniques to pass on traditions.
It's so pervasive.
I mean, it's everywhere.
There was a quote my friend was telling me from the Orphic texts where they said, I am a child of the sea and the sky.
Bring me to the water of memory or something like that.
Steve, find out when the Orphic cults were or the Orphic.
I'm not familiar.
When were the Orphics walking around?
Sounds like something from Lord of the Rings.
Yeah.
They wrote it on gold sheets when they buried their dead.
Okay.
Orphicism was an ancient Greek mystery religion that flourished around sixth to fifth.
Okay.
Interesting.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, I never heard of that.
Oh, wow.
Everybody wrote about that stuff.
Yeah, it's so interesting because those cultures were obviously way more intellectually advanced and tapped into something else that we aren't now.
It's like there's this weird correlation with the atrophy of the, I don't know how else to call it, but like the psychic mind and like technology, you know?
And like it seems like back then it was that deeper, more intellectual, quote unquote, psychic mind was more a part of their, was more woven into culture and society.
And it led to things like, you know, the creation of democracy, the scientific method, people like, you know, Aristotle and Socrates and all these people that were just like these incredible philosophers who were writing stuff that we recite today.
Yeah.
That's awesome.
You know what I mean?
Like there's, it doesn't seem, it seems like the rise of the technical or analytical mind that we see happening today with people trying to create tech and trying to optimize their day.
To be people that are trying to be more productive or optimize for return on investment, that sort of part of the brain has atrophied with that.
Yeah.
I often think, like, here I am, a memory champ, and I still have to work to memorize the stuff that I'm memorizing.
I would love to go back 2,000 years and watch one of these people just memorize something.
I'm sure it's just so effortless, right?
It's just like part of everyday things they got to do.
Just like we pick up our phone and send a text to pick up something and memorize it was probably.
Easier because they knew how to do it, but also because their minds were primed for that.
They're doing it all day long.
Right.
And that's all there was.
There was nowhere else to put it.
And Greek, I've had people tell, I've had this, there's a couple Greek experts, classical scholars I've talked to, and they say that when you learn ancient Greek, it does something to your mind.
Like it warps your mind.
Interesting.
It sends your mind through a portal where you think differently because.
There's words that can have that can mean different things based on context, and there's over 1.2 million unique words in ancient Greek.
In ancient Greek, so we're not talking about like not modern Greek, okay.
Ancient Greek 1.2 million.
Find out how many unique words are in modern English today.
Let me compare that.
So ancient Hebrew was 7,000 unique words.
Oh, that's it, and the Hebrew stuff was all religious, yeah, right?
So we have 170,000.
Uh, unique words in Oxford English Dictionary.
Um, over 1 million when it includes obsolete words, scientific terms, and different word forms 45 to 60,000.
Okay, a more manageable figure for active vocabulary is around 45 to 60,000 words for high school educated adults.
Plus, in modern tech, like the 1 million words coming from scientific terms, like the Greeks didn't have that yet, you know?
Right, right, right, right.
That's crazy.
So, like, yeah, man.
And then that combined with the fact that they were walking around talking in tune and like talking, speaking in rhythm.
It's just like, what the fuck would that have been like to walk around there communicating with people, like, you know, buying and selling and trading and just talking in hymns and songs.
And, dude, it's crazy.
It's wild, you know, because there's so much literature.
There's so much ancient literature that's out there, and most of it's Greek, and like from like, Plays to comedians to philosophers to religious stuff, and uh, yeah, dude, it was a it was another fucking world.
And like to imagine how their brains would have been different, how they would have been wired different, and even like what sort of things would their minds have been tapped into, minus all the technology we have today, yeah.
And uh, you know, even considering things like their diet, pollution that's in the air and the water, like what sort of Other senses could they have tapped into?
Yeah.
You know?
Yeah.
So you've had experts on this show that are not, probably not fluent, but who are well versed in ancient Greek?
Yes.
Yeah.
I didn't know that was something that you could like learn in full.
Yeah.
There's a, it's a dying, it's a dying specialty in scholarship.
Like it's a dying, like people, there's not many people that are getting degrees in these ancient languages anymore.
Well, it makes sense, right?
There's got to be an expert that can decipher old texts and stuff.
Yeah.
Yeah.
They're called classicists, right?
Or like there's linguists, there's classicists, and there's like philologists.
And it's all the study of these ancient languages, primarily Greek.
Like, There's Latin, there's Hebrew, there's Sumerian, but the Greek was like the behemoth of antiquity.
Like it took up the library of Alexandria was 99% Greek.
There was very little Hebrew, very little anything else back then.
Yeah.
So, yeah.
The hardest thing, the crazy, the hard part about it is like, oh, there's so few people that can actually translate it and read it, you know?
But there's so many books that like are just English versions of it and you don't know how, we don't know how accurate it is, you know?
That's so interesting.
Yeah.
But yeah, no, it's wild.
What is this, Steve?
The number of words in Beowulf.
Oh, yeah.
Beowulf was intended to be recited orally as a poem from memory.
Oh, yeah.
Right.
And it was like, if you write it down, it's 32,000 words.
Where Short-Term Memory Lives00:13:05
That would be a fun memory project.
That's crazy to remember Beowulf, to transmit it orally.
Yeah.
Yeah.
There's, I mean, there's ancient texts that were transmitted orally for hundreds of years, thousands of years.
The allegedly, the story of Atlantis was an oral transmission for a thousand years.
I didn't know that.
Which is like, how accurate.
How accurate is it?
Yeah, game of telephone.
Right?
I'm talking about a game of telephone.
You want to say the Bible is like crazy with redacting books and adding books over just 2,000 years.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like imagine some of the other stories that are out there that have been orally transmitted forever.
Yeah.
You know, at least some of them are written down and we have hard copies of them.
Right, right, right.
That's wild.
But yeah, man.
There's people out there who say that memory might not even be stored in the brain.
Have you ever heard this?
Goodness, this is what I was hoping to talk about on your show, man.
I want to hear where you've heard this from, but I'll tell you my experience.
So, I learned about this stuff in 2009 and just started improving my memory.
And I had an experience with my first example.
I listened to an audio book and it walked me through an example, just like you did in Joshua Fowler's book.
I was like, wow, this is cool, it works.
But over the years, as I've tried to be faster, And I've trained the skill down to something that's so automatic for certain things, not every memory task, but like the cards, for example.
I would drill that every single day.
And sometimes I'm trying to get down to under 30 seconds to look at a deck of cards in my prime.
I'm not there anymore.
And I'll never forget this.
The one time I've kept flirting with below 30 seconds, I could get 30 seconds, 0.84, 31 seconds, 30.12, but never break the 30 second barrier.
And one time I did, this was Christmas 2012.
And I got 29.74, I believe, is my second time.
And I was like, oh man, I broke it.
I did it.
And it was such a weird experience because I remember memorizing the deck, like the experience of actually going through the deck memorizing.
I was like, there was a part of my brain that was like, I'm not actively doing anything right now.
Like, I don't feel like I'm memorizing anything.
I'm just, it was like a flow state, right?
Yeah.
For memory.
And then when it was done, I just knew it all.
And that was like the first time that I ever felt that.
I wasn't a part of the memory process that it was like coming from somewhere else.
Wow.
You know?
And that was weird.
It doesn't happen all the time, but in these flow states, especially with memory, like with flow state, you know, they're shooting basketballs, everything goes in, like it's just kind of like mindless in the state, right, of doing this.
But with memory.
It's almost like an out of body experience.
Yeah, but with memory, like it is all about your mind, but being away from your mind as your mind is doing something is a really trippy experience.
And so, in the last five years, we talked about this briefly, but I've been more in touch with my spiritual side and remote viewing and kind of having these psi experiences and psychedelics and stuff.
I'm.
Pretty convinced that I don't think all memory is coming from inside of here.
That I think it's just a receiver, that there's some substrate out there that has all information about everything, including my personal memories and things that I've memorized and will memorize.
And I'm just, we are all able to tap in and out of that to get information, to write information, you know?
That's my feeling.
Yes.
And with the remote viewing, that's why I wanted to talk to you about it, because it's.
When I visualize things in my memory space, it's so similar to how I get a download when I'm remote viewing.
Like the visual space is almost the same.
So I almost feel like remote viewing is like kind of memory, but for things that are non local or for the future, you know?
You've actually done remote viewing?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Really?
Yeah.
We'll step into that in a moment, but I was curious to hear why you brought that other question up.
Well, obviously, in the book, in the Joshua Fower book, they explain that they're They've been doing experiments on rats and I think monkeys where they try to take out pieces of the brain to figure out where memory is stored, right?
We've been trying to figure out which part of the brain stores memory.
And there are all these experiments where we take out different parts of the brain, but memory never seems to go away, at least long term memory.
There's some parts of the brain, I think the hippocampus you can take out, where short term memory seems to reset every day.
But for the most part, it seems like.
From all the experiments that have been done, memory is sporadic throughout the brain.
Like it's like a hologram projected on the entire brain.
So, as long as there's enough brain there so you can be a functioning, like function and be alive and not paralyzed, that you can still remember stuff, or at least animals can still remember stuff based on the experiments.
Right.
And I think I was listening to Rupert Sheldrake talk about this, where it's basically similar to what you said, where he believes that the human brain is not like.
A hard drive on a computer.
It's more like a television set where if you're watching the television, the show you're watching isn't stored on the screen, on the television itself.
It's being streamed from somewhere.
Yeah.
Pulled in from the antennas or Wi Fi or whatever.
Yeah.
Right.
Which is a compelling idea for sure.
But then, like, the question is how do you explain how do you explain somebody who has played piano their whole entire life and, and, Can play Beethoven or play every Beethoven song or Bach or whatever it is, like flawlessly, effortlessly, because they've spent hours and days and years doing this stuff, right?
They've spent the time doing that.
And I can't do that.
So, how do you explain that?
If it is just a stream of that you're getting this stream into your brain from some higher level of memory or consciousness or whatever it is, how come only that person who spent all that time practicing it can do it?
Right.
No, like, why can't you?
Say, oh, I'm going to tap into that and suddenly play Beethoven or Mozart.
I don't know.
Maybe it's not so much about, maybe it's more that that trained person has found the right channel through the practice.
Maybe that's what practice is honing that connection, right, to the information that's out there.
And you don't quite know how to get that channel, but maybe through the practice you get there.
I don't know.
I don't know how to explain or answer that question.
I don't have the answer, just speculation.
But there's definitely something that we don't know or can explain about how the memory performs and the brain performs.
Yeah.
You know, I, yeah, it's a mystery.
The morphic resonance thing is interesting too that Sheldrake talks about.
Like, and I also believe this might be in the, in the book, in the four book, but like, I think it was whenever the first person broke the record for the, the four minute mile or did like the four minute mile.
Yeah.
It was the first time in history anyone ever done that.
And then like, it wasn't more than a couple months later that people started breaking it all over the world.
Right.
Yeah.
And it's like the same, like when a problem is solved in one part of the world, somebody, Very soon after, solves that problem in a different, completely different part of the world, completely disconnected from that person.
Yeah.
And he calls that theory morphic resonance, that like there's this resonance that's connected, consciousness is somehow connected to these people that they figure something out.
And this is also connected to like the simulation theory.
So, if we are in a video game, something gets rendered in one part of the video game, it's automatically easier to render here.
So, it's conserving processing power.
Yeah.
I love that.
Yeah.
We find that same.
Phenomena in memory sports, too, where with the cards, you know, I couldn't break 30 seconds.
Like 30 seconds was a barrier for it, it was like the one minute mile for a long time.
And then some of the Germans broke that pretty convincingly.
And then just like the dominoes fell, like everybody was breaking 30 seconds.
And now, well, I don't know, now maybe like five, six years ago, it was 20 seconds.
Yeah.
Since broken that.
And now it's like the 15 to 10 second mark is like the new one minute mile.
Yeah.
Four minute mile.
Sorry.
Yeah.
It's bizarre, dude.
It really is when you start trying to reconcile things like the simulation and this morphic resonance stuff and the brain being an antenna to the idea of memory and like how is it stored?
Because we know, I mean, just based on those experiments, like they, I mean, I don't think, Steve, maybe you can find this, but I don't think there's been any sort of like conclusive science that points to exactly where short term or long term memory is stored in the brain.
Do you know of anything?
I don't know.
I, I, Yes and no.
I mean, I think there's certain things that you can pinpoint are being generated here or accessed here.
But then I think there's other things where it's like not so clear why or where this is being stored per se.
You know, you look at scans of memory athletes using memory techniques in like an fMRI machine, and their whole brain is lighting up.
You know, it's not just those components that we attribute to memory, which is interesting, you know?
Yeah.
It's really crazy too how there's.
People that have like severe autism, or have there was one guy in the book that had like this crazy seizure when he was like four years old, and it somehow broke his brain into being like a genius where he could like recall crazy stuff, he could do incredible math experiments in his mind, he was taking equations, he was like somehow like visualizing pi in his mind, and he could see it all, and like he could recite like the first, whatever, 6,000.
Digits of pi in his mind because of.
Was this in the book?
Yeah.
Okay.
Towards the end.
Yeah.
Was it.
There was a documentary made about this guy.
Yes.
I know a lot about it.
Daniel something.
Yeah.
Daniel Tamet.
Yeah, that's it.
Took me a minute to find a good visual representation, but this I think does good justice.
Right.
But like, when was the study done?
And like, did they find out exactly where memory is stored?
Like, I'd be curious if there's like a conclusive summary on this stuff that like scientists agree on.
Interesting story.
Well, they talk about in the book with Daniel Tamet how he was actually a memory athlete.
Did you get that part?
Yeah.
There's a little bit of scandal there that.
Not to say that he wasn't on the spectrum and had some abilities with his memory, but he was in part, maybe more than we think, using memory techniques for some of the stuff.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
Okay.
So the AI says no, there's no single definitive conclusion on where memory is stored in the brain.
Scientific understanding has moved away from the idea of memory being located in one specific spot.
Instead, memory is a dynamic process involving multiple brain regions and the physical alterations of countless connections between neurons.
Wow.
Memory is not fixed.
It persists.
I mean, it makes sense, man.
Yeah.
So then, wouldn't that make this picture bullshit?
Yes, that would make that picture bullshit, Steve.
I mean, I think it's saying that some of these parts of the brain are involved, highly involved in these processes, but that's not the end of the picture, you know?
Well, there was one guy who was like the most studied.
Man in brain science, or something, who had a seizure.
It was a different guy who had a seizure when he was young.
And he had a what is it called when they take out a part of your brain because you have seizures?
Yeah, well, they, yeah, I don't know the name of the procedure where they take out part of your brain because you're having seizures.
And that basically broke his short term memory.
And he didn't remember longer than like a few seconds, right?
Short term memory.
Yes, short term memory.
But he had like all of his memory before that point.
He could remember everything he would wake up every day.
It was like Groundhog.
Every day was the same day over and over again.
Yeah.
You know?
Yeah.
Well, you have people who are well advanced with Alzheimer's, and, you know, there's certain things that will activate their memory, like music, for example.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
And they suddenly can be lucid in their memories for a few minutes while they experience this nostalgic music, you know?
The Cost of Temporal Lobotomy00:02:36
Temporal lobotomy.
Oh, lobotomy, yeah.
Lobectomy?
Lobectomy.
In 53, he received a bilateral meteoral temporal lobotomy to surgically reset a part of his brain.
That's crazy.
Oh, because he had epilepsy.
That's why they did it.
Good God, dude.
Could you imagine getting brain surgery in the fucking 50s?
Yeah.
How primitive that house was.
He wasn't able to store or form new memories.
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Now, back to the show.
This reminds me: there's been a few times where I've gone under for surgeries and they.
Supposedly, there's this drug and they've given it to me before they give me the stuff that knocks me out called Verset, which has a similar effect where it, when, once you're under that, you can't form new memories.
So I'll always tell my surgeon or whatever, like, give me, when you, after you give that to me, like, tell me like 10 words, like, as I'm going down, you know, because I'm trying to break it.
Yeah.
And I can always remember them.
And they're like, how the fuck did you do that?
Like, I was like, wow, I just use a memory technique.
But did you make a palace?
Is that how you did it?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Oh, my God.
That's amazing.
Dude.
So I'm like counting down 10, 9, 8.
But in my mind, like just quickly plopping those words in the memory toss, you know?
Yeah.
And they were there.
Remembering Words Under Anesthesia00:09:37
And they're just like, I don't know how you did that because you're not supposed to remember that.
Yeah.
Anesthesia is a weird thing.
Yeah.
Anesthesia is so, so strange because like you don't have dreams when you're on anesthesia, right?
I think it's like you're completely shut down.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then you wake up and like you have virtually zero memory of any of that because your brain shut off.
But do we actually know that you're not experiencing it or you just don't remember?
That's a good question.
That's a good question.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's terrifying.
That's a terrifying thought.
But yeah, like, what if you were fucking fully conscious during the surgery and they somehow had a drug that wiped your memory?
Yeah.
You would never know.
Like a severance situation, except just like severance.
Yeah, yeah.
But that person is just experiencing all that pain.
Is it possible to have dreams during anesthesia?
What does it say?
Yes.
Anesthesia alters brain activity but does not completely suppress consciousness.
The brain may generate dreamlike experiences similar to those experienced during REM sleep.
Oof.
Okay.
Yeah, dude.
Could you imagine?
Yeah, wild.
Yeah, let me, I'll tell you about the remote viewing thing.
Because the reason I got into remote viewing, this was 2021, there was a random post on one of the World Memory Championship.
Facebook pages and it said something cryptic like, if you're interested in making a little bit of cash on the side using your memory, send us a message.
I was like, okay, I'll check it out.
And yeah, they didn't say anything until I was on the phone with somebody and they were like, have you ever heard of remote viewing?
And I was like, I honestly had never.
I was like, is that some kind of streaming service or viewing something away from your TV?
I was so dumb.
It's like, no, have you heard of Project Stargate?
And I was like, oh, yeah, maybe some psychic program.
And then I. Where did you see the ad for this?
Well, it was posted on one of our memory Facebook pages.
Okay, gotcha.
Yeah.
So they were looking for memory athletes.
Got it.
And that's what it turned out being it was a team, a remote viewing team they were putting together with memory athletes and non memory athletes, but they were interested in using memory athletes because of their visually, their trained visual abilities.
There was a theory that they'd be better perhaps at.
Remote viewing because of that trained ability.
Okay.
And they wanted to experiment with me and a couple other people.
And they were going to pay us to train for a month with a remote viewing coach and to be psychics or whatever.
And it was for a training firm.
So, they were eventually going to.
A trading firm?
Yeah.
So, they were going to have us do associative remote viewing on tasks every day that had to do with the fluctuation of the market.
Oh, my God.
Yeah.
And so, we were potentially going to get a portion of the earnings and stuff like that.
But the projects fell through at some point.
But I did get my month training and I did get paid.
So, it wasn't like a scam.
They actually paid me.
But I was so skeptical.
Like, I didn't.
In my worldview, at that time, none of that had.
There was no room for that.
I grew up studying physics very classically.
That was what I was going to be a physicist.
And so this was not explained in that world, you know, remote viewing.
So I was just kind of like rolling my eyes, but I was like, you know what?
It's maybe a cool story to tell.
I'll see what these people have to say as they coach me how to psychically see things that are non remote, not local.
And yeah, within maybe the first week, I had some experiences that I couldn't.
Explain, you know, with getting the information right out of nowhere, seemingly.
And so slowly it kind of changed my mind about what is possible with the mind, you know?
So were some of the people that were recruiting you guys, were they like former Project Stargate people?
No.
So the guy who trained me was trained by a guy named Ed Dames, Major Ed Dames, who was from one of the original.
CIA programs, I believe.
Yeah.
Not the original original, but one of those.
He himself is a controversial character.
But either way, the technique is roughly the same.
Everybody has a little bit of a different take on how to do it, but it's ultimately the same.
You're generating information from seemingly out of nowhere or tapping into something with your intuition, you know, in this visual space.
And yeah, I'll never forget the first time I had like a hit.
Yeah.
How did that go?
Like, did they invite you out somewhere?
Did you have to go meet up with them?
People and like, how did that work?
It was all virtual.
I actually never met the people higher up at this firm.
It was kind of weird and hush hush, but I would meet with my coach every day for like a month.
And, you know, step by step, he taught me the formal process of how to remote view.
And he would have a picture that he had randomly selected.
He'd give me a task number.
I'd have to, from that task number, try to intuit what the picture was, like through descriptive words, sketches.
And yeah, some were not even close, but then some would be so eerily close.
Like, what kind of stuff would they tell you to look for?
Well, at first, for training, it was just random pictures, right?
So it could be a landscape of the highlands in Scotland.
It could be a picture of a dog.
You know, it could have been, you know, a mountain in the Swiss Alps, anything.
Okay.
I didn't know.
I had no idea what he was choosing.
It was totally random.
And he actually had software that would randomize some image selection.
So it wasn't like he was even.
Preparing them.
So, there's no way he would be able to tell if you were actually remote viewing successfully or not.
Well, yeah, we would go over my results after.
Okay.
But I'm saying there was no way, because I was trying to go through all the explanations.
Like, how was I able to get some of these so correct?
Like, is he subliminally giving me the information, like, and it's all a trick?
Or am I actually coming up with this information somehow?
But the main one that really changed my mind was I drew and described like a whale breaching.
The ocean.
And it was after a couple of weeks.
So we had developed, he had taught me the different stages of getting really detailed information from these sessions.
And so I had all these components that just looked exactly like the picture of all the things that could have been.
It was exactly the whale breaching the exact same way with the same colors and components of the photo.
It was all described there.
It was just mind blowing to me that I generated that.
So I'm a little confused.
Tell me.
So, okay, he has the photo and you can't see it.
Correct.
And it was by Zoom.
So he's on another.
So he has a random generator on his side that creates a photo.
And then you don't get to see the photo.
What does he tell you?
I get a task number, which is just a task number.
It's just a random eight or six to eight digit number.
Okay.
There's nothing in the number.
It's just a random number.
And I used to ask questions about that.
I was like, why do you need the number?
What's the number about?
Can't you just let me do it?
Right.
And they're like, well, no.
The process is you get this thing that you can kind of.
I don't know how this all works.
I don't think anybody does.
But I think there's something if I had to kind of.
Speculate when the tasker, him, who's deciding what the photo is and giving me the task number that he's assigned to the photo, that intention links the two somehow.
Okay.
So when I get the number, even though it's not any information regarding the photo, maybe that through line to the signal that connects all the information in the universe is what I can tap into through that number.
I don't know.
So that number on his side is associated with the image.
Right.
And he's decided that.
Okay.
And so he'll say, like, one, two, three, four, five, six.
I write that down.
And then I go, I do the thing.
So he gives you the number, you write the number down.
Yep.
And then what do you do?
The first step is you come up with what's called an ideogram, which is really just as soon as you write the number down, you let your hand just draw a scribble almost, like whatever your hand does.
Your hand will do something if you let it, right?
And it might be like this, like a little zigzag, it might be a loop, whatever.
And then from that, you kind of, it sounds so out there, but you just kind of like feel what you feel.
I don't know how else to describe it.
And you'll get like a general gestalt.
Or, like a feeling, and you kind of write those down, like, okay, fluffy.
And then, like, a general category, okay, landscape.
Okay, you start with that.
Then you go into descriptors.
So, the way that he taught me is he would say, you first want to go through all the colors you sense, the taste, the smells, the dimensions, the structures, anything that comes to mind, right?
And you really want to try to quiet the logical mind.
So, anytime you're trying to, like, say, oh, this is what it is, it's a bird, it's a.
That's what you want to avoid.
You're just going through your, trying to describe things through your senses, like what is just coming to you.
Oh, I feel like a pink, orange, a sharp, salty smell.
Whatever pops into your mind.
Remote Viewing vs Psychic Tricks00:15:04
Yeah.
Yeah.
Without, and it's hard to do without your mind starting to be like, oh, it's pink and orangey.
Well, maybe it's like a parasol on the beach.
Okay.
It's a parasol.
No.
You can never name things.
It's always about just kind of describing.
And then after you've done all the descriptions and sketches, even, Then you can start to maybe put it together and be like, okay, this all kind of comes together and is describing some kind of outdoor scene with some kind of structure that is, you know, tall, jutting into the sky, and there's some kind of life form around.
You know, you describe it in those ways, which I always thought at the beginning was kind of like a cop out because it's like, yeah, of course, you guys are saying you're psychics, but you can't really tell me what you're seeing.
You're just describing.
And maybe through, General words, it feels like you're coming up with the right information because you can, you know, it's you can convince yourself that it's correct.
But there's a lot of scenarios where you end up going down this rabbit hole of really specific descriptors.
And it's like, it can't be anything else.
It can get to really specific things that are really accurate to what you're describing.
And I've talked to a few of the original remote viewers, and they can do this on a whole other level where they're writing such detail down that.
Which ones did you talk to?
McMonagall.
You talked to him?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Chris and I went to his house a couple of years ago, Chris Ramsey.
And interviewed him.
That guy's insane, like impressive, insane.
Crazy stories, too.
But there's some.
Do you still do it at that age?
Yeah, I don't know if he'll actively do sessions anymore.
But he, for a while, would even pass his days where he was working for the government, he would be invited to like these Japanese shows and do it live on TV.
Or he'd even help find missing children and things like that.
Wow.
And he'd be right.
I always tell these remote viewers, I'm like, Why can't you just go figure out and tell us how the pyramids are built?
Like, that's what we all want to know.
We want to know who built the goddamn pyramids.
Like, go do that.
Tell us.
Yeah.
You know, you can go to Mars a million years ago and tell me what was going on.
Just tell me what was happening in the Giza desert 3,000 years ago.
Yeah.
I want to know.
That's the frustrating thing.
That was, and I guess still is the frustrating thing about it is, you know, it can provide really interesting results, but at the same time, it's so.
Amorphous and like slippy.
Like it's not like this definitive, like, oh, tell me, what word are you thinking of?
Oh, it's bread.
You know, like it's not that simple.
There's all sorts of caveats and like, no, it can't.
It's got to be.
There's all sorts of requirements for it to work.
And at first I saw that was, you know, psychics like talking shit, you know, but I really think that it's just such a.
Like, there is an effect there, like some psychic effect, but I don't think it's a strong one.
And maybe it has to do with what you said.
Like, over thousands of years, our intuitive mind has kind of atrophied, right?
And so, what we have hanging on is just like a weak force of it still, you know?
I wonder if you could train some like uncontacted tribe in the Amazon to do remote viewing.
I bet you they'd fucking kick ass at it.
And they have like no knowledge of any kind of technological society or technology or anything.
Yeah, yeah.
They're just fucking running around naked with a bow and arrow.
Yeah.
I think you could probably remove the shit out of some stuff.
Probably.
Have you ever tried remote viewers?
You've had remote viewers on the show.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
I've had, we've had at least one, maybe two, one or two.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And they've never.
We had one of the original Stargate dudes.
Oh, wow.
On the show.
He was shot in the head.
See, that's weird.
A lot of these things start with like trauma.
Huh.
You know, like this guy was training somewhere in like one of those countries that border Israel.
And he was doing some training exercise and he got shot in the head by like a rogue bullet.
But he was wearing a helmet.
Yeah.
And it knocked him off his feet, knocked him unconscious, and it didn't penetrate the helmet.
It just fucked up his brain.
He had a really bad TBI.
Yeah.
So he went back to the US to see a psychologist and, you know, get his head checked out.
And they're like, the psychologist was like, hey, we want to bring you into this other program we got going on called Stargate.
He's like, what?
He didn't know anything about any of this.
He's like, this sounds like, you know, This sounds like the Twilight Zone.
What the hell are we doing?
Yeah.
And they trained him on all this remote viewing stuff.
And he's like, apparently, you know, he remote viewed all kinds of stuff.
He said that he also remote viewed Mars and the moon.
Okay.
Just like McMonagall said, but he said he never saw any aliens.
Okay.
Interesting.
Very interesting.
Yeah.
There's this theory, too, with remote viewing that, well, when you, the important part of the training is when you do your session afterwards, you know, my coach, he would show me what I tried to remote view.
And I would judge, like, oh, how close was I?
Yeah, I got the colors right.
Maybe I give it a four out of 10 of accuracy.
Sometimes I'd be like, oh, shit, it's like a seven or eight out of 10.
Wow.
But the feedback is super important.
Remote viewers will constantly tell you that.
And some of the thought is that maybe you're just actually seeing into the future when you see the feedback.
Oh, interesting.
Right.
So it's that kind of forms the loop of your future self telling you what you saw at that point, you know?
Right.
But then I don't know how somebody can remote view a million years ago on Mars.
Right.
So I think there's still ways to do that.
But I wonder if it's weaker that way because you never really get a definite answer like that.
Yes, that was the radiation.
You can never verify it, right?
Right.
And so maybe that's part of why, you know, they can't just go back and definitively say, like, that guy can say there was nothing on the moon.
But maybe somebody else can say, like, oh, I saw something on the moon.
Like, who's right?
Like, you'll never know.
Yeah.
Could both be talking shit.
But I don't know.
Yeah.
It sounds so crazy.
It all sounds so crazy and just so outlandish.
But like, dude, like, The wild part is when you learn that all of these people, like the whole history of all the top physicists and scientists and engineers in the space program, were all into this stuff like the occult and remote viewing and ESP and all this stuff.
Like Jack Parsons and all these people, you know?
Yeah.
Like, were they onto something?
I don't know.
Joe will say that this is, you know, an old human skill that we just.
Don't need anymore, or we don't use anymore because we don't have to survive in that way.
Why does he think that he has this ability?
What is his story?
I think he just always kind of had a knack for intuition.
He never had like an incident where he like hit his head or anything.
Or maybe he did.
I don't know.
I don't think there was any notable thing in his life where it like suddenly became his thing.
But yeah, he was just in the right place at the right time and they decided to train him, I think.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The telepathy stuff, like the telepathy tapes, is fucking insane, dude.
Yeah.
It is so crazy that it's even real.
Yeah.
You just had Dahlia on your show, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
She was at the Psy Games thing about a month and a half ago.
And Chris and I were there kind of to help out.
We spoke at it.
Is that episode live yet?
It's not.
Okay, okay.
Sorry, sorry.
But Dahlia told me.
She's coming out.
It's coming out any day now.
Okay, cool.
Yeah, yeah.
No, she.
It's funny because after the side games where I saw Dahlia do her thing and it blew my mind, um, I reached out to her because I was like, I need you to teach me this.
Like, can I learn this?
And she believes that anybody can learn it.
Maybe it's easier in children, but then you can learn it.
And so I've done a couple sessions with her.
Um, but as I started the sessions, she was telling me that she was going out for podcasts, and I was like, Oh, cool.
Who then?
She said, Oh, no way.
And it was the same week that you guys reached out to me.
No way.
I was like, Oh, that's crazy.
Weird timing synchronicity.
Um, But yeah, she's insane.
I mean, did you have an amazing experience with her?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
She put on like a thousand blindfolds and she was able to see things.
She was wearing full blindfolds all over her face to where there was no possible way she would get any shred of light through there.
And I was holding up books, like, ran.
I brought a pile of books and I was holding them up.
She was reading the covers.
Stuff she wouldn't have known.
Steve was able to hold up shapes behind her head while she was wearing the blindfold facing the other way.
And she was able to tell what the shapes were.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, this is wild.
When we did the session via Zoom, she's like, okay, put on your blindfold.
I'm like, yeah, that makes sense.
I'm going to do this session blindfolded as best I can.
And then she.
She's like, I'm going to put on my blindfold.
And I was like, Well, wait, don't you need to see me?
And she said, No, I can see you.
And, like, you know, obviously, a big part of it is me holding up papers and trying to figure out what color they are.
And she has to verify them.
But if she has a blindfold on, but it doesn't matter.
I recorded the whole thing.
She got every single one right that I was trying to see, you know, to like confirm whether my guesses were right.
And there were even some that I had under the table that she still got right.
So I don't know how you, like, even if her blindfold is cheating or she can pee, she can't see under my table through a Zoom call.
Right.
She was able to even do it with cards, playing cards.
That's when I was like, well, can you see a card face down on a table?
Because if you can, then that would be great in casinos, you know?
And she's like, oh, I just need to, I think I could if I trained it.
I was like, man, that's crazy.
Yeah.
I mean, you should train that.
Yeah.
That's an instant advantage.
Yeah.
If there were any rules to that kind of stuff, I imagine that would be like the number one rule.
Like, we're not going to let you motherfuckers manipulate the stock market.
And like, village of the earth based on your psychic abilities, right?
Right, right, yeah.
Um, you know, if there is some sort of like, some sort of muse or like, uh, group of pagan gods that rule over us, I would imagine that they would like set some sort of rules around that, yeah, yeah, for sure.
Did um, did she talk about the side games a little bit, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
She mainly talked about her daughter, she was talking about her daughter, yeah, her daughter was amazing.
The crazy stuff that her daughter and her daughter's friends can do, like literally read minds in, like, as easy as I can read a piece of paper, they can read minds.
Like, it's insane.
Yeah.
And it's, uh, it's bizarre that not more people are talking about this, right?
You know?
Yeah.
It's completely 100% verified.
They, like, they tested this stuff, like, with scientists and, like, did it with multiple kids.
And like they do this thing where they also meet up together in this like imaginary world and hang out.
Yeah, I heard that the hill or whatever, right?
Yeah, that's insane.
What is that, dude?
I don't know.
Like, can you imagine your kid can read your mind, everything you're thinking at all times?
Yeah, I think what did Dahlia tell me?
She said sometimes she has to like, she'll sing songs in her head, like if she doesn't want her daughter to like think of what she's thinking, she has to like, yeah, make noise in her mind.
Oh, wow, yeah, oh, that's crazy to like mask it or something.
That's funny.
But yeah, the moment she went on stage, Dahlia herself, her daughter's presentation was incredible too.
But we were trying, they were trying to, the competitors were doing this mindsight stuff where they had to put these colored rings on the pegs.
Right.
And nobody was really doing that well, honestly.
Like the whole competition.
Really?
I wasn't like blown away, like, wow, people are psychic.
Here they are.
Were the kids there?
There weren't any kids.
There were kids, but not the flunky ones.
Not the flunky ones.
Okay.
But then she came on and it was like, you know, Michael Jordan suddenly and all the other people.
People were just like kids compared to her, and she just like could put them on, like, she didn't even make a mistake.
It looked crazy, but the whole crowd went nuts.
And it was like the special moment at the competition because I think people were waiting for like some true psychic feeling event.
And that was it.
She like commanded that moment.
It was wild.
Have you talked to Chris Ramsey about that at all?
Does he think it's magic, maybe?
Yeah.
Hey, Chris.
He, I don't know if I should speak for him, but he's a magician and he's seen it all.
You know, like he can do what she can do, but it's not real.
Really?
Yeah.
In the same way that, and he'll tell me this all the time Nelson, I can do what you can do with your memory, but I don't have to have a good memory.
Like he can fake it, you know, with his magic tricks, you know, his magic skills.
He can have a pre memorized deck of cards and shuffle it.
You think I'm shuffling it.
You think he's shuffling it, but he's done a million fake shuffles, right?
Slide of hands.
He can force the card here and there.
And it looks like he's memorized crazy stuff, but it's all a trick.
Same with the blindfolds.
And he even showed one of the people who was trying to document Dahlia doing this certain thing.
They gave him the same.
Blindfold and he could do it.
I don't know how he did it, but he showed me books where there's all sorts of blindfolded tricks.
What does he think?
Does he think there's any chance that Dahlia could be faking it?
Yes.
He does?
That's what he thinks.
Okay.
Yeah.
And he saw her at Contact in the Desert.
He even perhaps thinks that there's a bit of suggestion when she's holding up the board to her daughter to point to.
And maybe.
I personally think that it's real.
I leave a little room always to be wrong, of course, because I don't know for sure, you know.
But I do value what Chris knows.
He's seen every sort of trick under the book and knows.
Is there a way to test it if she's actually doing a trick or if it's real?
According to him?
Well, he wanted to do some other tests on her at the Psy games.
Because she would use her blindfold.
And it's a verified blindfold.
Like they are dark.
It's these mind vision ones.
Oh, yeah.
We have a bunch of them.
They're in the other room.
Yeah.
You've put it on, probably.
It's like, you can't see anything.
You can't see shit.
Testing Chris Ramsey's Claims00:16:16
Right.
But he was able to do it with that mask on.
Did he tell you how?
It's a bit of yes and no.
Like he's a magician.
He's a good friend of mine, but he will still never tell me how certain tricks are done.
But I would imagine it has to do with shifting the thing on the bridge of your nose, or I've even heard of people putting certain.
Like grease on your cheeks to create a gap so you can kind of see.
If you look at Dahlia perform, she does move her head a lot.
Yeah.
I know she's also looking through her windows, right?
Which I can imagine, you know, even when I memorize, sometimes I have to like look different places.
Yeah, she was going like this.
Yeah.
But, you know, if somebody was trying to peek too, when they probably do something like that, I don't know.
Right.
But anyway, so he did, he was able to do a demo, and the people that were testing him were like, I think he has mindsight.
Chris was like, I definitely don't.
I just faked that.
But they were so convinced of how he did that.
They thought that he had mindsight and he didn't know it.
I don't think he has it.
He doesn't think he has it.
But he's most frustrated because I think he just wants, from a magician's standpoint where he knows all the tricks, he wants to be able to test her in ways that would eliminate that idea.
Yeah.
She could be using one of those ways.
Has he reached out to her?
No.
No, he did at the competition, but Dahlia's response was mostly that she could do what he was asking, but needed to train it first, which I get.
Even with me, I can memorize really fast, but if you put me underwater and do it, it's like, well, I've never really done it that way.
Could I do it?
Yes, but I wouldn't like to perform.
I'd prefer to train it first.
So I get that.
But in his mind, he's like, well, if you can do it through a blindfold, then can you do it through an opaque sheet?
You know, like of leather, like or how, yeah, like for just a big, like a thing right in front of you.
Does it have to be right in front of your eyes?
Like, could it be interesting?
Interesting.
And so, those things weren't able to be tested.
But what about on the other side of a fucking wall or that, right?
Like, what's the thickness of the thing or the distance away and the thickness?
Like, I would love for that stuff to be tested meticulously, and I don't think it has.
Um, and you'd be surprised, even when you say, you know, scientists have tested the out of the telepathy stuff, like.
With the memory thing, I'll use it as an example.
There was this memory guy, I won't say his name, but he was a magician, mentalist, and he would claim that he could do all these memory things that were way better than anything I could do or any other top mental athlete could do.
And I was so annoyed by it because it's like it devalues what we put in effort to do.
And I know he's faking it, right?
And he even got in with researchers at MIT and they were studying his brain.
And these researchers would come to me and be like, why can't you do that?
Like this guy can do it for real.
I know it.
Yeah.
I studied the brain.
I know it.
And I was able to debunk some of his examples that he was using.
Like, look, here's him doing this deck of cards in seven seconds.
I was like, it's a fucking marked deck.
Like, you can even see him, or you can see him fall shuffle the deck.
Like, he's pre memorized that.
And I even pulled up a bunch of other demos that he did the same thing.
It's the same order of the cards.
Like, no way.
He was on an Ellen show years ago.
It is the same order.
And it's a mnemonic stack.
You can expose this guy.
What's his name?
Just do it.
Just do it.
I don't need to do that anymore.
Come on.
He's been on Ellen.
People are going to figure it out anyway.
His name is Jim Carroll.
Jim Carroll.
Okay.
Yeah.
Pull him up, Steve.
You know, he's, yeah.
He's, it's all right.
He's getting what he deserves.
No, I don't know.
I don't want to, I don't know why people feel the need to do stuff like that.
But yeah, that's, I want to try to stay out of it.
Although, no, I don't, clearly, right?
Because I'm, what about Uri Geller?
Have you heard of him?
Yeah, yeah, sure.
Um, I've never seen, I've heard people say, and David Morehouse, one of the remote viewers that was on here, told me he was friends with Yuri Geller, and he told me he's watched him bend spoons.
He told me not only that, he watched him walk into a random restaurant, pick up a spoon off somebody's table, pick it up and bend it with his mind.
But that's the thing.
He's a magician and a mentalist, too.
I'm not saying that he doesn't have.
Exactly.
That's why it's even more confusing.
You can swap out the spoons, right?
Like, and somebody who thinks they see what they know what they saw.
Good old Jim Carroll.
Yeah.
Well, the mathematical mind.
The mathematical mind.
That's one of the greatest long term memories I've ever seen.
That's the researcher that I'm talking about.
Like, it's so crazy.
And I showed this guy, the Robert, evidence of him, what I just told you.
You showed the MIT guy the evidence.
Yeah.
And I'd never heard from him.
He was so upset that I questioned him.
And that always bothered me.
Who was Robert?
Yeah.
Really?
Yeah.
And that's crazy.
I truly respect Robert.
How could you be a scientist?
Like, that's so terrible.
That's so terrible.
All I'm trying to say is it's easy to fool people.
Yeah.
And you never know what people's ulterior motives are, you know?
Because you think like someone like Dahlia and her daughter, I don't think they're really getting any monetary gain.
Well, maybe, I don't know.
They're getting a lot of attention.
A lot of attention.
But maybe that's not even wanted.
Maybe her daughter would prefer to be a little more out of the limelight.
I don't know.
It seems like she's maybe not super comfortable being out in that press.
I don't know.
Right.
But who knows?
Maybe.
People are very easily tricked, people are very gullible.
Yeah.
Me as well.
I'll tell you another example of me being fooled.
There was this guy, BJ Shahi.
Wow.
My channel on YouTube exploded because of this guy in a good way years ago because he claimed he's a guy from Nepal who claimed he could memorize books just by doing this and like saying gibberish out loud.
He would almost seem like he was speaking in tongues.
He'd be like ripping through pages, these massive books in English.
He doesn't speak English.
He's Nepalese.
And then he would go off into a corner.
His associate would tell him a page number random, and he would go over in the corner.
No cameras allowed, but he would write out the page verbatim and it would match.
Right.
And so I've been to Nepal a bunch of times because I like to climb there.
And one time I went there in 2021 and he reached out to me.
He's like, Would you like to interview me for your YouTube channel?
And I was, because I had done a couple like debunkings.
Like, I don't think this is real, but I hadn't really gone into it other than saying, Oh, look at this memory demonstration.
It looks kind of phony.
Yeah.
This is it.
Look, look, look.
Yeah.
Whoa.
And so.
So he's like, he's taking a mental picture of each page?
Then he's not doing anything.
But that's, I think, what he's trying to pretend.
Right.
So the kid on the right, you're talking about.
The kid on the right, yeah.
And he reached out to you when you went there.
Yep.
And said, Do you want to interview me?
Yep.
And I did.
I went to his office.
That was the first red flag.
I shouldn't have gone there.
He should have come to me.
Yeah.
And.
I gave him a book that had just been published on mountaineering.
He would have never, in English, he would have never had it.
And he, I told him just to memorize a page, like not even the whole book.
Like that's hard.
Like there's hundreds of words on a page, right?
In a language you don't speak.
And so he did it, wrote it out perfectly.
Wow.
And I walked away from that thing thinking, like, man, I was wrong.
Like this is real.
There's something there.
I posted the interview.
And of course, like the comments, people were like, Oh, his assistant passed or was recording and passed him the paper.
And it's like they didn't see that, but they're just like guessing what happened.
But you were there while he did it, though.
Yeah.
But it was a whole setup, you know, like to trick the memory guy.
Because if the memory guy could vouch for this guy in a full interview, like he said, right?
Like there's no question.
And I went into it thinking, I am a memory guy.
I've seen all the tricks.
I can figure it out if this is fake or not.
And I left there being like perplexed, right?
But it turns out in the video, there were things that.
Uh, my audience helped catch, and I further catched that was definitively showing that it was fake.
Um, that what he did was like a whole how I think the biggest there were a few you can watch, I'll send you the link.
Um, but I think the main thing was on your channel, yeah, see if you can find it, Steve.
Yeah, just look up BJ.
Yeah, these are some of my reactions, but there's an interview.
Is this guy like a big shot in Nepal?
He was, uh, he's since come crashing down.
Yeah, there's a bunch of different memory feeds in there.
But the main thing was when I gave him a piece of paper, you know, it had, it was like lined school paper, right, with a margin line.
And I saw him start to write.
I have it on video.
You can zoom in and look.
And he's touching the line.
Like he's like starting at the margin line, his text in ink.
Okay.
And then the page that he gives me later, there's like a half inch gap consistently down.
So it's not the same page he gave me, you know?
So, and the thing is that sort of like put off flags in my mind was at one point, just for a split second, he asked me to turn around.
Because, and I know that sounds so stupid, because like Nelson, why would you turn around real quick?
Yeah.
But in the moment, he was like, I'm having my divine experience.
He was chanting and stuff.
He's like, I can't let you see this part.
Like, it's, I won't get the information.
So I was like, okay.
I really tried to keep my camera on him.
Yeah.
This was the moment.
That's the moment where he's like telling me to, he had his assistant.
He's like telling me to turn around.
Oh my God.
Stop.
I think his assistant slided a piece of paper under the door.
I was, yeah.
So, So, okay, so there was like a camera in there that somebody in the other room saw and they quickly wrote it down and slid it under the door.
I think she was recording because he reads it out loud.
He read it out loud.
Oh, okay.
And then she transcribed it because there were some funny translations, like as if somebody had heard the word and written it wrong because they don't speak English.
I said, look at me.
I'm like, kind of trying to.
Not fooled, huh?
Yeah, yeah.
Oh, that's so funny.
I haven't watched this in so long.
And the comments figured it out, huh?
Yeah, yeah.
So after this interview, there's a debunking video, which is pretty funny.
Wow.
Sometimes the comments are spot on, man.
Yeah, thank goodness for that.
But yeah, it was great for my channel.
I got so many subscribers from Nepal, a great audience.
Yeah.
One of my best performing videos.
He's a magician.
Yeah.
And you know what's crazy?
After this went live, or the second video, I was on a trip somewhere and I started getting messages from people in Nepal saying, RIP, BJ.
And I was like, oh, yeah, yeah, like we got him, you know, like his career.
But they're like, no, no, he's he killed himself.
No.
And my heart stopped.
I was like, oh, no.
Is this like one of these situations where like I bullied somebody?
Like, turns out he had posted a photo of him dead.
And then 15 minutes later, somebody had taken a picture of him.
He was still alive, but he had faked it, right?
Like, as a I don't know.
Aplicity stunt.
Yeah.
So I was like, oh my God.
Like, and that's why I don't love the debunking things anymore, but sometimes it's necessary because like, This guy was taking people's money in Nepal who don't know any better.
And he's tapping into the religious aspect of it.
Information is just coming to him, and that you can learn it if you buy my book or take my course.
That's not cool.
No.
So, yeah, it was a whole thing.
That's pretty funny.
And now I think he went quiet for a bit, but now I think he's back and his whole new shtick is he raises people from the dead.
Oh, really?
So he's on to the next one.
We got to get him in here.
Steve, hit him up.
He'll bring his assistant and tell us to turn all the cameras off before he does the trick.
Oh my God.
I'll take a leak real quick.
Quick break.
We'll be right back.
All right.
Where were we?
We're talking about BJ Shahi.
BJ Shahi.
I found it.
Here's the.
Oh, that's his dead photo?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And the moments after.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The problem is there's people like this in everything.
That's right.
There's fakers in literally every aspect of life and every profession.
And you don't know what the.
Well, you look at that photo, you kind of know the motive.
Steve was saying a moment ago, he said, Look how attention craved he looks, right?
Yeah.
But I would like to go back and just reiterate that I think that Dahlia and her daughter are the real thing.
Really?
Yeah.
But, you know, we'll leave a little bit of room for skepticism.
Well, what does Chris think about the whole telepathy type thing in general?
I mean, obviously you're speaking for him, but like, I'd be curious how do you fake it with kids?
You know, like, how do you have all of these kids doing these things?
Like, and confirming kind of the same things.
And it's not like they've all sat down and it's all on video on their website, isn't it?
On the telepathy tapes website, didn't she videotape like the whole thing on the like all the experiments they did?
I, those don't to me, those weren't super convincing, but no, nah, I don't know.
Again, I think some stuff could be faked, uh, or just like overlooked, um, or maybe not even purposefully faked, but um, just there's could be some other things going on.
I don't know.
Um, yeah, there could be Chris definitely is on the same kind of page as me spiritually and like remote viewing wise because after I did the whole remote viewing project, that's how kind of how we reconnected again, is he, um, Asked me, we were doing a podcast, just a comedy podcast that he had.
I was on his show and remote viewing came up because I was telling him that crazy story that I just got involved in this weird program.
And he was like, Yeah, you know about remote viewing?
I was like, Dude, I'll teach you.
And so we did a whole series on his Area 52 channel where I taught him remote viewing.
He did it for a year.
And so he had crazy experiences for himself.
And so he's a believer.
We ended up doing the Monroe Institute together and having crazy out of body experiences together.
Well, not together.
That sounds kind of sexual, but we had our own experiences separately.
So he's definitely on the page that stuff like this can happen and has happened to him.
But he has this lens of he knows how or can assume how fakers could fake.
And there are fakers in this community because it's so easy to fake.
And that's kind of, I think, his feeling about Yuri Geller you asked.
Probably has some abilities, but just like I think BJ Shaw, he had some knowledge of memory techniques, but he probably saw, oh, you know, if I fake this, like, who's going to know?
And then you get kind of carried away, and maybe that's what happened with Yuri Geller.
I don't know.
Yeah.
Yeah, man.
I tend to believe that it has to be real.
Yeah.
Just because of, you know, the telepathy tips convinced me probably more than anything.
What is this?
The balloon boy parents admit hoax.
Yeah.
When you brought up the question of having all these kids in on it, and that, Brings me back to the days when I was working at the news station, and there was this story that popped up where these parents had created this hoax that their kid was stuck in a UFO balloon or something like that.
And the kids played in on it?
They tried to get the kids to play on it, and immediately, because this is a news interview, live interview.
DMT, Past Lives, and Evidence00:13:45
So this is a live feed into their control room, and the interviewer asks, So what happened?
And the kid just rats out his parents.
He just straight up He doesn't do what his parents tell him to, and he tells them to do it.
So it requires participation.
Yeah.
Well, the thing is, like, these kids in the club, they're nonverbal autistics.
I know.
Right?
They're like extremely autistic.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And we know there's a correlation between people that have TBIs and get these weird abilities.
You know, like that guy, David Morehouse, that was in here, the remote viewer guy.
Oh, that's his story?
Yeah.
That was David Morehouse's story, how he got shot in the head by that rogue bullet.
Yeah.
That's crazy.
And yeah, I don't know.
There's just too much evidence.
There's too much evidence pointing towards it.
But again, the weird thing is that no one else talks about it.
It's like only the people on podcasts talk about it.
I never heard anyone else say anything about the telepathy tapes.
True.
But even with all that psi stuff, it's very poo pooed and there's this giggle factor to it.
But if I, so I usually, if I'm talking about this with somebody and I say, oh, psychic abilities, you can feel their eyes pull back.
But if I say something instead, like, have you ever had this feeling where you think about something and then it shows up or you think about somebody and they call you or You feel like somebody's looking at you, staring at you, like gut feeling.
Everybody can relate to that.
Like, that's not a weird thing to talk about.
Everybody's like, oh, yeah, I've had, when they get like goosebumps, you know, thinking about this one time that this thing happened.
So people are aware of what they won't maybe label as psychic instances, but that's what it is, you know?
Things that you can't explain, you know, with modern science.
Yeah.
And again, it's written about throughout history.
Throughout history.
All the, you know, there's tons of ancient Greek stuff that like talks about this crap.
Yeah.
There was even, there's even like this idea, this, this ancient Greek, I forget who wrote about this.
This might have been another Orphic thing where like the idea is that when you're born, that's only a part of who you are.
Your life is spent retrieving all of your memories that make you, you.
Like when your body is born.
Oh man.
Yeah.
That's not all of you.
All of you is already there in the ether, right?
But you have to go through your life to know yourself.
That's why it says on the Temple of Apollo, know yourself.
Oh, wow.
I love that.
You know?
Yeah.
So, like, what if you're just already there?
Like, say, maybe this is, I don't know if it's tied into like reincarnation, but I could see how you could make a link to reincarnation to like a new body is born and you spend your life going through.
Going through your life and downloading all these new experiences and all these new memories until you've reached the peak to where you've actually become yourself and you actually know who you are.
And maybe that was destined, predestined the whole time.
Yeah.
And what every life is just that journey, right?
Yeah.
Like start kind of from scratch and build it all together.
Right.
Maybe it's not all random.
Maybe it's already, maybe it was there already, you know?
Have you ever done like a past life regression?
No.
Or spoken to anybody?
I've spoken to people about it, but I've never done it.
No.
Yeah.
The kids talk.
There's a lot of kids in that.
Tell me the tapes.
The kids talk about that.
I had another guy in here, Jeffrey Kripel, talk about that.
He's a religious scholar guy.
And he was saying that there's more accounts of children recalling past lives than anyone else.
And he says there's also commonly in their past lives, they're also males most often because he thinks that something to do with.
Having the memory of a past life, you're only going to remember the most traumatic of past lives.
Okay.
And he says that men historically died in the most violent, traumatic ways.
That makes sense.
Yeah.
So maybe that could be a link.
Oh, interesting.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But I've heard the thing about children having, you know, like in their new life at young ages, like being able to say information about their past life and then having it verified, like knowing, you know, the name of this person in this town that was their brother in their past life.
And you can go to that.
No shit, and they're still alive.
I don't know if they're alive, but there were records of that person.
Wow.
Stuff like that.
But again, I say this as I've heard these anecdotes, but who knows?
Maybe it's just like some of these grifters, like it's just a story that gets kind of morphed and it's actually not true.
I don't know, you know?
Yeah.
But I've heard stuff like that.
Yeah.
I've heard a lot of stuff like that too.
Yeah.
I think it's, I think there's something to it, you know?
Yeah.
The problem is like no one takes it seriously.
It's too stigmatized for people to take seriously and actually study and like verify.
Like no academic journal is going to publish that and say, yes, past lives are real.
Like we're reincarnated.
Psychic abilities are real.
Yeah.
It's just not, we're just not in a place right now.
Like this is, our society is not.
In a place to make that reality.
Not yet, no.
And there's even the psychics or people with these abilities will say that being put on the spot affects the ability, which is unfortunate because then it makes it harder to test, right?
How convenient.
But maybe it's true.
You have to have these right intentions.
The scenario matters.
And again, as I go back to what I said earlier, that it's a very small effect and it's very slippery for us weak humans.
Mentally weak, intuitive humans.
So that any little, there's so much noise that, like, to actually focus in on the thing that is the information that we're pulling in is hard to do in a lot of settings, right?
I don't know.
Yeah.
Maybe it's not meant to be described or to be known by people who aren't experiencers.
Right.
You know, similar to like doing DMT, like, you have the experience.
It's a personal experience that it's a 64 bit experience that you can.
Can't communicate like trying to put it into words is like putting something that's 64 bit into two bit, right?
Like, there's no way you can actually articulate what happened in words.
Did you maybe it's maybe it's by design?
Maybe that's yeah, right.
Did you so when you came out of your trips, uh, was it like instantly you like were so aware of what just happened, but then when you like try to vocalize it or write it down, it just like fails your words, your words fail you, right?
Yeah, like it's hard to just.
You feel like you have all the answers suddenly, and then it just like you don't know what to do because you can't explain.
The first time I did it, it was like the closest thing I could possibly imagine to what dying is.
Because it was like my soul shuttling through light arteries, and I was disconnected from everything on earth.
Because I was thinking about, wow, my house, my job, my family, all of that is, I'm disconnected from it all now.
And I'm like fucking teleporting to another world.
That's what I felt like.
Wow.
That was the first time.
Okay.
Second time was way different.
But did you?
But I was able to talk.
I was able to explain that.
I was able to explain everything that was happening like right immediately afterwards.
It was very fresh, but it faded after a while.
It faded pretty quickly.
Yeah.
I had a similar experience.
I never like blasted off as people talk about, but I was in this waiting room place and I definitely had some enlightening experiences, but it was hard to, and it's still hard to like fully explain what I felt in human words.
Yeah.
You know, it does something to your brain.
I think it makes you smarter.
I think so too.
Yeah.
Most people I talk to that I don't know.
And again, this could just be some sort of like people who are habitual like DMT gurus or whatever.
They have this messiah effect.
They have this like aura to themselves where they think that they are like more enlightened than you are.
You know what I mean?
Like they have this all enlightened, like maybe that's part of it.
But in general, I feel like the most people I've talked to that.
That experience, like that, do psychedelics and that have experienced them have a better grip of words and ideas and abstract ideas and conveying them and are more, you know, open minded.
But, you know, I don't know what came first, that or the psychedelics, right?
Like, it could just be that's the type of person that would be open to trying psychedelics in the first place.
True.
Yeah.
I was going to say, like, Andrew Gallimore has, like, I think he speaks so well about that stuff.
Like, he, he, Uses the right words.
You don't think so?
I think so too.
Oh, okay.
No, no.
I think the accent probably helps him out.
It makes him sound smart.
Yeah, yeah.
But you're saying that.
He's super smart.
Yeah, he's a very, very smart guy.
Very, very articulate dude.
Yeah.
But he's also a brain scientist.
True, right.
Yeah.
He wasn't a brain scientist because he.
Right.
Let's compare him to a brain scientist who doesn't do DMT and see how they stack up against each other.
Yeah.
I want to, at some point, I don't know when, I have to get my kids out of the house, but I would like to.
Try a DMT while memorizing a deck of cards or something.
Even if I could, I don't know.
You wouldn't fucking touch a deck of cards.
You'd be like, fuck this.
I know.
Like, starting it, I'm like, that's my attention, but probably, and I'm like, what is the meaning of this?
Like, why would I?
But I wonder, like, how intense, if I could even memorize a deck of cards, if it would be easier to, like, I think it would be harder to do the task because I'd probably find it meaningless or something.
Yeah.
Or so distracted by other things.
But if I could actually sit down to get the memory process going, if that process would be enhanced in any way.
My inkling is that it wouldn't be a good experiment.
But I do think that over time, people have suggested this that if I did psychedelics more, I would actually get better at memorizing afterwards.
Like it would open up my brain.
What do you think about that?
I don't know.
I think I've done pretty good for myself in terms of enhancing my memory through normal means.
But I definitely think there's something to psychedelics.
Like remapping your brain.
And I could see that helping with memory in general, just because you'd have maybe more information to kind of pull on when making associations.
I don't know.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think there's definitely a big connection with those kinds of drugs and the Greeks.
I think they were definitely experimenting with that stuff a lot more than like cultures are today.
Does it go that far back?
Yeah.
I think it goes back pretty, pretty, pretty damn far.
Definitely.
definitely goes back into ancient Greek.
I mean, you have, um, you have like the Eleusinian mysteries and stuff like that, where they were, they were drinking psychedelic wine and they were, uh, doing chants and music and like ritual religious stuff where like there's something that happens, I think, when you combine these psychoactive drugs with, with groups of people that are like dancing and, and, and engaging in like,
Rites and rituals and there's music involved and there's fucking orgies involved, like imagine what kind of like transcendent shit you can that would happen in a setting like that.
And that stuff wasn't.
I mean, the Greeks were sickos, dude.
They were like.
They were like obsessed with you know all kinds of crazy stuff and um, a lot of those religious pagan those, a lot of those like pagan rituals that they were doing were like very involved with sex, drugs and music.
So, there's probably a connection with all three of them where you can fucking attain ultimate enlightenment, you know?
Probably, yeah.
And I think that probably had something to do with just the depth of that culture, like the philosophical, intellectual height of the Greeks.
You know, not just with their language, but I think it probably had, I think the drugs probably had quite a bit to do with that.
For sure.
I don't think I've ever thought about that or heard that, that Greeks were doing psychedelics.
That's crazy.
I'm not surprised, but.
Yeah.
What is a psychedelic wine?
Just like.
There was a allegedly they were taking.
There's a lot of people who, a lot of like classical scholars and stuff like that, who claim that they were drinking wine spiked with ergot, which is a fungus, like a fungus that grows off of wheat.
It's a certain alkaloid of a fungus and it's called ergot.
And they think that that was in the wine they were drinking.
Okay.
And that was creating some sort of a psychedelic experience that they were.
And that was like, there was a lot of religious rites.
And that's like some people claim that that's like the foundation of religion.
Was this type of stuff?
Because imagine if you're living 2,000, 3,000 years ago and you're experiencing something like DMT.
Like, you're going to think that's God.
You're going to think you're going to heaven and seeing God.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
That's wild.
Ergot, Wine, and Religious Rites00:04:30
So, yeah, I don't know.
Was that the foundation of religions?
Who knows?
But I could see how you could make the case for that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know?
Yeah.
Crazy.
I was going to suggest, I don't know if you do this kind of thing on your show, but do you want to try a remote viewing session?
Like, Sure.
You do it?
Yeah.
Like right now?
Yeah.
Okay.
I don't know how it'll come out, but we can try it.
Yeah.
You just need a piece of paper and a pen.
You could even do it on your tablet, I think.
So I will choose a photo.
Okay.
And I'll come up with some like tax number and then I'll kind of guide you through.
I don't want to guide too much because I don't want it to seem like I'm guiding you to the answer or something.
But I'll try to come up with a just like framework of what you should.
Try to visualize and see what comes out.
Give me a second here to find something.
This is going to be fun.
You've never done something like this?
Never tried it.
Okay, I'm going to save this.
Remember when David Morehouse was showing us the Titanic thing, Steve?
Where he was pulling up all the remote points of the Titanic on the ship and people remote viewing the Titanic sinking.
Oh, wow.
Yeah, that was pretty nuts.
Yeah, people could pick.
They were picking points in time for people to go back to and remote view what was happening.
Cool.
On major historical events, right?
Like the Titanic.
The idea that there's some sort of major events like that, there's some sort of.
Again, I don't even have the words to describe this, but like maybe there's more of a connection to those events because there's so many people involved, and like that is somehow stronger.
It's easier to tap into big events like that.
Yeah, there's some theories behind that.
There's a physicist, Ed May, who's got some really cool ideas on this, but his thought is that things that have a lot of entropy tend to be easier to remote view.
So think of things like natural disasters or explosions or things.
Like a lot of the CIA programs would be trying to find like a downed plane or some kind of like silo with nuclear missiles and stuff like that.
And apparently, those are like hotspots, like entropy.
And that's interesting because entropy is just kind of like essentially the change of information over time, right?
So maybe it all goes back to just like the universe being pure information, right?
Everything is out there, back in time, forwards in time.
Everything is just in this, like I said, substrate of.
Something with all this information, and you can just tap in, right?
Well, that's one of the laws of the universe, right?
Is that we're bound by entropy.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like entropy is always increasing.
Always increasing, right?
Yeah.
But there are things that have higher entropy.
Like, I guess if you have a cup, right?
Low entropy, but when it shatters, like its entropy increases.
Yeah.
This thing cannot be put back together, right?
Like it's just become more in disarray, right?
So things like that that are heightened, and maybe that kind of plays into these.
Natural disasters, or something where there's some intensity behind.
Maybe trauma too.
Trauma too.
Trauma is very tied to that.
Yeah.
And it could be also like an emotional entropy too.
Like all these humans together, like experiencing this kind of change and death and disaster.
Maybe that's just like a hotspot for in this timeline of events to hone in on.
Yeah.
9 11.
There's this crazy, I think this was in a Dean Radin book where.
It's like a traffic jam of like consciousness.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And there's like these spikes, right?
Where certain things happen.
You know, before 9 11, wasn't there like the manifests of all the planes were like notoriously, or not notoriously, weirdly empty compared to normal days?
Like there were a lot of, like the planes were emptier than they.
I didn't know that.
Yeah.
Insinuating that maybe a lot of people had a feeling, a gut feeling.
Like whether it meant they like stayed in bed a little longer and.
Dilly-dallyed and missed the flight, or they purposely were like, I'm not gonna.
Consciousness Spikes on 9/1100:16:04
There we go.
The four hijacked planes on September 11, 2001 were all underbooked and flew with passenger numbers well below their capacity.
Well, that could have been because of the terrorist situation.
They chose the flight specifically because of the lower passenger loads, it would make it easier, right?
Well, how would they know?
Maybe they could.
Maybe there's a way they could know.
Yeah.
Would they book it last minute?
I think so.
The Boeing 767 had a capacity of 158 passengers, but was carrying only 81.
Wow.
Yeah, that's an empty plane.
That's significantly low.
You never think about that, right?
You always kind of think of these packed planes.
I've never been on a flight that's.
Well, they were all.
They were also all cross country flights, too, which is why they picked cross country flights because they knew they'd have to have full tanks.
Yeah, a lot of fuel, right?
Crazy.
Allegedly.
Yeah.
Anyways.
All right.
So I have a random number here that I generated with Google Random Number Generator for my task number.
Okay.
So I have an image chosen.
So I've made your intention.
No, no, that I've chosen.
I'll show it to you after we do this.
Okay.
It's on my phone.
I saved it as a photo.
I said, This is going to be the photo that I'm showing Danny after our session.
Okay.
So, what you'll do, and actually, maybe I should just do you have another piece of paper?
I'll just show you an example.
Just give me a writing device.
So, I'll write down, I'm just going to do an example one, two, three, four, five, six.
And then, as soon as I'm done writing this, I'll just put my hand here and whatever comes out, comes out.
Okay.
And I'll kind of like, and I want you to try to do this, like, hover your finger over this.
And write two things, okay?
Kind of a feeling you get from it, whatever you want to describe, and then a gestalt.
And we'll call that just think of it as like a category.
I don't want to front load you here, but just think of just a general.
Don't even try to think what would Nelson choose.
Just think of like, what am I feeling?
Right?
Don't try to game it.
And it's hard to do because you're going to inevitably think like, oh, Nelson sat down and chose a photo.
What did he think of?
Was it random?
Did he think what I was going to think?
And that's why he chose it?
Don't think of that.
Just try to feel like, oh, it's a this, like a general.
Theme.
General theme.
It doesn't even have to be right.
Like, this is just to get things going.
Then, once you just put that out, then I want you to start describing.
Can you give me an example of what that would be, like a theme?
Sure.
And we'll maybe keep it in general genres here.
Like, it could be a structure, could be a life form, could be a landscape, could be, you know, energy, whatever, something like that.
Okay.
So, once you do that, then I want you to describe colors.
Intuit what you feel.
Sounds, smells, tastes, even.
And there could be nothing, but try it.
Tastes, dimensions, right?
Like shapes of things.
Okay.
Movement, temperatures, stuff like that, right?
Sounds.
I already said that.
Okay.
Okay.
And then once that's done, a sketch.
Just whatever.
It doesn't even have to match necessarily what you write here, but just whatever your hand decides, whatever's coming to mind.
There's a lot of that.
It could just be scribble.
Yeah, but with a little, not so scribbly as this, but maybe try to.
A little bit more attention to it.
Okay.
Yeah.
And then when you're done, just type, write end, and that's it.
End.
End.
Okay.
You have to walk me through it again when I do it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'll guide you a little bit.
Okay.
All right.
So, and maybe make your paper vertical just to have a little more room.
Okay.
So the number is 556 784.
And go.
Draw your ideogram.
And now, hover your hand over it and really just try to tap in and think of a feeling it gives you and then a general category, just thought.
A feeling that it gives me.
Okay.
All right, now colors.
Write down colors that come to mind.
I feel like I have something popped into my head that gave me an idea of what it could be.
And now I'm kind of following that.
If you get one of those, that's called an AOL, an analytical overlay.
So on the side, write AOL and name the thing that you're thinking of.
Okay.
Okay.
Put your pen down.
Okay.
Just take a beat.
The point of that is to get it out of your head because it's easy to get stuck on a thing and be like, that's what it is.
I'm going to describe it now.
Now everything I'm saying is reinforcing it.
Right.
And so now the idea is to kind of let that go and go back and just.
Try to see what comes through the stream again.
So you can continue.
Just write anything?
Yeah.
So, you know, taste, smells, sounds, temperature.
What's the temperature?
You know, is it?
Yeah.
Supposed to be like looking at it?
Not even.
Just a feeling that comes.
Like, if you were to write down any color right now, like you're going to write something down.
Where does that come from?
It's an intuitive thing.
Like, it came from somewhere.
That's kind of the idea here is that, like, if you're trying just to.
Write like freehand what comes out, like something will come out right from somewhere.
Okay, um, and the more mindless it is, like the more, like, where did it come from?
Right, right, okay, okay.
You do your sketch, oh, do a little sketch now, another sketch, yeah.
This one was just like an ideogram, we call it, but then the next one will be more like an intentful sketch, right?
You can piece together some of the information that you have if it makes sense, okay, but now you're actually trying to draw something, you know, not just a scribble.
Yeah, it doesn't have to be like an amazing piece of art.
Just.
Okay.
All right.
And just write end somewhere on the bottom.
Okay.
Voila.
All right.
Let's see what you got.
It's like a bird.
Okay.
All right.
And what do you have?
You have.
So you had life form.
Life form.
Animal.
Yep.
Then your colors.
You had orange, white.
You had walking, smelling, predator.
AOL was your bird.
And what does it say here?
What's that?
Cool.
Cold.
Cold.
Cold, red, evil.
Good vision.
Good vision.
Okay.
I don't know why.
I don't know why.
So you clearly had like a, you went down a rabbit hole.
I went down a rabbit hole.
This is what it was.
Okay, not even close.
How would you rate that on a scale of one to 10?
Zero.
Zero.
You know, and this happens often.
And it's hard to pull information in without getting fixated on a thing.
And even when you do get fixated on a thing, how do you let that go and focus on the stream?
Right.
And sometimes I've done this with people and they have like insane sessions where they're like, they drew the thing or like a lot of components matched.
And I've had other ones that just don't quite, you know, or you look at it and you're kind of like, well, you know, you said white and orange.
Well, I mean, the general colors there, white and orange.
Yeah, that's true.
Is that something?
Interesting.
You drew somewhat of a beak there.
Is that maybe like kind of what, like if you were tapping into this at all, you know, but then on the flip side, is this just like, Us trying to fit this exactly, you know, yeah, and that's where, like, in a session like this, I really wouldn't give much to it.
Um, but there's been sessions where you know I've drawn the thing, and it's like, wow, that wasn't a guess, you know, it was the thing.
Uh huh.
Um, let's try it the other way.
I was gonna say, I'll try one, I've never done it like on the spot, but it should be fair that I try it as well.
Um, so yeah, you choose a number or you choose a picture, um, and then find some like six digit number to give me as a task number.
Steve, do you have any paper?
That's why when there's the best remote viewing projects are set up so that they're like blind, double blind.
You know, that's the best.
When people are like, well, can you remote view my future?
You know, that's hard to do because now I suddenly, I mean, I don't know much about you, but I know something about you and I, you know, I know you live here and like I can already, I already have them front loaded with information.
So it's not biased at all.
But then the question is like, well, if you're psychic, you're psychic.
Like, can't you?
Why are there all these limitations?
I don't know the answer to that.
Hand me the pen when you're.
Oh, yeah.
I got the picture, but there's no number associated with it.
That's fine.
You can just make up a number.
Write a six digit number on the paper that you're deciding is going to represent this photo.
Okay.
Let me see your pen.
Okay.
Okay.
All right.
Give it back.
Let me just give me that number.
The number is 767.
Yeah, 767 114.
114.
Okay, so I'll do it a little different.
I'll write my name at the top, put the date.
What is it?
October 16, 2025.
All right, and now 6767 114.
Okay.
All right, he wrote it down on the piece of paper.
Now he's just scribbling shit on the paper.
He's tapping into the muse right now.
All right.
All right.
This is stuff that I got.
Okay.
Before you show me, I'll just say what I got.
And again, I haven't done this in a while.
It could be a total whiff, but that's the idea.
And, you know, I'm sure David Morehouse does this way more formally.
You're talking to the mic.
I'm sorry.
Yep.
Yeah.
But this is kind of the shorthand version that I do.
I don't do it much anymore.
Okay.
I do it in some cases just to like, See if I still have it.
And there was a time when I would do this every day.
Chris would do it as well every day.
We were training it and we would get better at it.
Right.
It's one of these skills, just like memory, where you get better at it.
There's actually a phenomenon with it where at the beginning you have insane hits, like really good sessions.
And then there's like a fall off.
I don't know if it's because you like overthink, start to overthink it or something.
Right.
Right.
This false sense of confidence.
But then through practice, you can get back up to better.
Anyways, I'll stop.
Delaying here.
All right.
So some of the colors here were just, I don't necessarily do it in order and colors, sounds, smells like that.
Right.
But I have like black, green, dark green, leafy, jungly, wet, damp, rain, overhang.
I started to write trees here because I have an AOL there, but I wrote that down.
Then reaching up, closed, overarching, bleak, dreary, brown.
I wrote down waking, evil, breaking through, flaky.
And then I started to try to.
Hone in on some other things here.
Yeah.
Filled, damp, evil, low light, empty.
It's just like a very dark kind of scene, whole tunnel, guided path, black, brown, green, dark shades.
That's kind of what I got.
And then my sketch, you know, it's not much, but I had some kind of like pathway through something with some like vertical elements to it with some kind of like roof overhang there.
I don't know.
What do you got?
Your descriptions were pretty spot on.
That's what it is.
Oh, interesting.
Okay.
Let's see.
It's a very dark, dreary, dark green, brown, black scene of two crows floating on like a brown suitcase type chest in the ocean.
Yeah.
I definitely picked up on the dreary, the wet.
Yeah.
The overhang being the clouds, perhaps.
My sketch was not on par at all.
But yeah, but your descriptive words were very, very close.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so, yeah.
So take that with you.
See this on the camera, Steve?
Yeah.
Hold it up for your camera.
Just poke it right at your camera.
Yeah.
That's nuts.
Crazy, right?
Okay.
So if I were to grade that, I'd probably say, I don't know, like a four or five out of 10.
4.5 out of 10.
Yeah, dude.
But you, as someone watching that, felt.
Like I tapped in on something, maybe?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so sometimes it's like that where you get elements.
And this, again, this was like back of the napkin version of it.
There's many steps, like as you get deeper, that you start with this.
And that's like flirting with the signal.
You know, you get pieces of it.
There's noise, but you get pieces of it.
And then you go bit by bit down certain rabbit holes and pull out more information.
And by the end of it, you can build something a lot more detailed.
And You know, it even sounds like I was really tapping into like this foresty thing.
Yeah.
Even though I, because I started with the wet damp thing and that was kind of correct.
Yeah.
Wet damp.
Yeah.
It was in the water.
Yeah.
And so maybe I went too far down the logical rabbit hole my brain was telling me to was that, oh, it's like a jungly forest with trees.
And so I wrote down trees to try to deal with that.
And then you try to get back and try to reset.
That's hard though.
Like I'm not the best at this, but pro remote viewers can do that and will come up with some really detailed information.
It's also interesting that mine was about a bird and like an evil.
Dude, yeah, maybe you even like.
Maybe I saw the future.
You saw your own shit.
That can happen too.
It's called displacement where you're like, not memorizing, remote viewing the next thing or the thing before.
Like, it's offset, you know?
Because maybe you got the signal, but you were like off a channel, you know?
Right, right, right.
Maybe I was seeing the future.
Yeah.
Dude, that's crazy.
Yeah, yeah.
Because what else did you write here?
I mean, life form animal, orange, white, no.
Yeah, no, orange or white.
But even still, the bird is kind of interesting.
Yeah, yeah, the bird was interesting.
I don't know why.
I think I got the bird thing from that.
I drew like a beak there.
Oh, interesting.
And I kind of got stuck on that.
It looked like an eye and a beak.
Yeah, yeah.
I think that all this is, and there's different protocols that different camps of the original remote viewers that will do it slightly different.
I think all you're doing is you're trying to quiet the logical mind that's going to just like try to make meaning out of shit.
Because when you silence that, that's when you.
You know, you're quiet the intellect, your intuition raises.
And that's what this is all trying to do.
You know, whether I write my name in the corner, you know, focus on the number, like it's always for me to just like blank out in a way and just listen to what is just naturally coming to me without thinking.
Right.
And the better you can do that, I think the better you can.
To quiet your mind.
Yeah.
Which is, sounds so opposite.
You're trying to like listen to your mind at the same time, you know?
Yeah.
Or listen to a signal that's coming into your brain, right?
Like to completely shut out.
The analytical thinking mind and just become a blank, turn your mind like a blank canvas to receive something else that's there.
Because that's all we do day in, day out, is we listen to our analytical mind.
We're just always trying to make sense out of stuff, trying to logically deduce this from that and think things through.
But listening to our gut and our intuition, there's a lot of value and insight there.
And I think that's where this stuff comes through.
Shutting Out the Analytical Mind00:09:20
Yeah, dude.
That's super interesting.
Yeah.
Are there any other like memory champions or memory competitors that are into this stuff like you are?
There was another memory champion who was recruited on that project.
Oh, okay.
But I won't name it because he's, I don't think he believes in it.
He was really good too, which is funny.
Really?
He just thought it was all bullshit.
Really?
And he was just like, oh, the guy was setting it up and it's all chance and just bias, you know?
Like, yeah.
I'm creating my own experience.
Anyways, so I won't say his name, but he was into it.
And then there is another, the other U.S. memory champion after I stopped, John Graham.
He's separately gotten into this stuff as well.
And we discovered that a couple of years ago and we're like, you're into it too?
Like, Have you ever heard of Itzhak Bentov?
No.
He was a, I think he was an engineer or a mathematician who came up with this astral projection process.
And it was called the Gateway Process.
And there was a whole CIA, declassified CIA program on this, on this astral projection.
And it was called the Gateway Program.
You're not confusing it with the Gateway experience at Monroe Institute?
Yes, the same thing, I think.
Okay.
I mean, that was by Robert Monroe.
Well, this was somehow tied to it.
Was it?
Yeah.
Yeah.
He offered one of his books was Stalking the Wild Pendulum.
I've seen the cover of that.
There's an incredible video, Steve, if you can find it, of him.
Basically, he's on like a talk show.
Just search for like Itzhak Bentov.
Talk show interview where he's explaining this bell curve of human consciousness.
Oh, interesting.
And he was basically saying that, like, on the two ends of the bell curve, you have like really, really dumb people, then you have like really, really smart people on like the top far end of the bell curve, the middle of the bell curve is like average intelligence, and then you have on the very far end of the bell curve.
Yeah, this is it.
Here, put the headphones on so you can hear this.
This is amazing.
Called Lab Pository of Information.
That we gather during a lifetime.
Physical bodies are here, another physical body, another physical body, and this is Joe, and this is Jim, and this is Sarah, etc.
Now, clearly, this is the physical level.
Now, on this physical level, we are separate.
You sit there, and I sit here, and we are all separate.
Now, let's draw another level.
This level is slightly higher, and let's call this the level of the soul.
Well, there will be some mingling here.
Let's draw this person as extending to practically infinity this way.
Now look what happens.
At the physical level we are separate.
We are separate and there's this much distance between us.
Let's say that on the soul level this person extends this much and the other person gets slightly mixed in with him.
That is the souls are in a way in touch with each other.
Okay, they overlap these two lines.
Now let's go now to a higher level.
And let's call this say, the level of the higher self, which is kind of a boss of that soul.
Uh there, what we find is that this fellow's higher self extends this much and the other fellow's extends this much.
There is more overlap between them right on the very highest level, which is the high spiritual level.
We are Basically, overlapping completely.
Everybody is overlapping everybody else.
In other words, everything and everyone is everywhere.
In other words, we've become omnipresent.
This is the state of highly spiritual, perfected beings, or gods, you may call them.
Okay?
Fast forward to the bell curve part.
It's probably before this.
It's probably before this.
Different clip, maybe.
It's the same interview, but it's a different clip where he's showing a bell curve.
Yeah, I was trying to find it.
I wasn't sure if that was it.
I know what you're talking about.
Scrub through this, you'll see it.
Keep going, keep going, keep going.
Keep going.
Love that explanation, though.
Yeah, no, isn't it great?
Cool way to.
No, it's not going to be this video.
Visualize it.
Go to X.
Oh, wait.
Oh, no.
That was the same thing.
Okay, that's enough of that.
Okay, turn the.
Oh, wait, wait, wait.
There it is.
Right off the top.
Yeah, watch that.
Thousand people in it.
This is the fucking curve.
But don't worry, it's not very scientific.
Let me draw what is called a bell curve, which looks somehow like this.
It's being used in describing random events.
And the way this works is the following, that if we assume now, let's take the following situation.
Take a little town that has maybe a thousand people in it.
And we have this great desire to find out what the average height of people in this town is.
And therefore, we go out with a yardstick and start measuring these people.
What we find that a very small, very few number of people will be, say, three feet tall.
And a very, very few of them will be maybe seven or eight feet tall.
The bulk of the population will be right somewhere here.
That is the average or mean height of these people would be about five feet and six or eight inches, something like this.
Okay.
So what we find here is that you're on the very far end of that one.
You have a picture of where most of the population is, that is what typifies population.
We can use this diagram also to describe evolution.
The bulk of the population today is this intelligent, more or less intelligent bipedal, right?
And with a vertical spine, and who pushes the buttons on TV and drives a car, etc., etc.
Now, There is some back throw, that is there are some people here in this area, very few people who are still gorilla-like.
That is, you know, Harry, they beat their chest when they see their neighbors and a few other things.
And then we have other people who are here in this corner, very few of them, who are very highly developed because we say that evolution is now pushing mankind in this direction, away from the gorilla types, towards the very highly evolved people.
At this point we're here.
what's going to happen maybe a million years from now, half a million years from now.
This curve is going to shift.
It's going to shift like this.
That is, the bulk of the population will be very, very highly evolved.
We have gone away altogether from the gorilla types, no more gorillas.
And what we have here now is the average man is now the retarded person in evolutionary terms.
The bulk of the population is extremely, very, very highly evolved.
And the cutting edge of evolution here, these are very, very highly evolved people.
We can't even imagine what kind of person that will be.
He may not have a physical body at all.
What was the habitat, so to speak, of this group here?
Well, you just go out and you find them.
They're all over the place.
The habitat of this group here, what do you think you find these people here?
I suspect that you would find them in universities.
You'd find the people who are very bright, people who are in the leading edge of professions.
It's an intellectual thing, isn't it?
Well, I suggest that you find them in mental hospitals, in nuthouses.
And the reason for that is that these people they live in a different reality, in a reality which is very changed, and few of them are adapted to live in this reality, so naturally they can't function very well.
So the only safe place, only good place for them would be the mental hospital, unless they can integrate their different view of reality with their daily lives.
Now, if they can integrate it, then we have people like Newton, like Darwin, like like, uh, these are the so called genius.
The thing that, how crazy is that, man?
Military Intelligence and Sky Orbs00:10:49
That's cool.
I love that.
Pretty wild.
That's awesome.
And such a good demonstration of that.
Yeah.
So he was, uh, he was the one that worked on that whole, that whole, I think it was, yeah, part of the Monroe Institute thing was the, um, the Gateway, the Gateway program.
Can you check that, Steve?
I didn't know that.
Just that's, just type in his name.
Yeah, type in Itzhak Bentov, Robert Monroe.
Have you considered going to the Monroe Institute?
Um, I would love to.
I don't still have that much time.
Um, I would love to do it.
I've been, I think they've invited me to come up there, but they both contributed awesome.
I didn't know that.
Cool, yeah.
No, I've seen they don't, they've done some, they've, they're doing like crazy stuff, man.
Still, they're still doing all kinds of crazy stuff and experiments.
And you know, they have the people that go out there, they can see like orbs in the sky, yeah, kinds of wild stuff.
Yeah, they were at the Psy games.
Oh, where are they really?
Yeah, and uh, the first night we all went out to sky watch with them and it was overcast, and so we were like, and and and Chris was there too.
He had gotten a contact of somebody who was there who was part of some of the Skywatcher program.
You know about these guys going out trying to summon orbs or UAPs and documenting it and stuff?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
He was one of the, what do they call them?
The psionics, psionic assets.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So he was like, come to our house.
I've got an Airbnb.
Let's all lay out on the grass and try to summon our own orbs.
So we tried that.
Nothing happened.
But it was a cool experience.
Very relaxing.
We had some like.
Meditative thing going on.
It was cool.
But then they did it the second night.
I decided to go out and have a drink with Chris, and we missed the orbs, apparently.
Really?
Yeah.
Apparently everybody saw stuff and they were like, oh my God, it was insane.
I was like, oh man.
Me and Steve got to see some orbs one day.
We had a gentleman on the podcast, Chris Bledsoe.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's the Bledsoes were there.
Yeah, yeah.
We had him and his daughter came on the podcast, and his wife also came.
She wasn't on the show, but she came with them.
And it was, I think it was actually on his birthday.
Funnily enough, Chris or his son Ryan?
Chris.
Chris, okay.
And I took him out to dinner the night beforehand.
We went out to dinner, and I just picked a random like Mexican restaurant on the beach or across the street.
And after we ate dinner, we walked across the street, and Steve brought his video camera and he's like, Yeah, I'll try to summon the orbs.
He's like, Usually it's only in like very remote places where there's not a lot of traffic or not a lot of like civilization around, yeah, or lights.
Light.
And the beach was a little bit busy, it was like.
Close to spring break, lots of tourists around, big hotels and stuff like that, lots of air traffic.
There was lots of planes flying from over the Gulf landing in Tampa airport.
And him and his daughter basically sat in the beach and like prayed to the sky for like two hours.
And we were sitting there.
Nothing was happening.
There was lots of planes flying over.
You could tell because the planes had like the starboard and the port lights on them and they had like a flashing sort of like guidance light on them.
Yeah.
And then after two hours, we saw a crazy orb come up out of the ocean.
And we had these.
Um, what did he have, Steve?
He had some sort of special camera.
It was a low light sensitivity camera, and I kept it on my desktop.
I have that video right here, yeah.
So, yeah, so I keep it on my desktop because so you couldn't see this with the naked eye, okay?
Oh, wait, you could, you could, right?
I couldn't capture it with my camera because I was at f like five, six, okay?
But uh, but his camera could capture it, and that's these little red things right here.
No, wait, is that right?
You'll see the planes fly in this direction, yeah, and then the orbs will come, and then so like, um.
So, we were using this like these psionic, I don't forget what the name of it was.
I want to say it was called like a psionic binoculars that makes you see super low light.
And you can see any kind of faint light would be amplified in those binoculars.
And I was using that to see it.
And sure enough, this happened.
And I say this as like a caveat to this I've never seen anything like this before in my life.
But I've also never stared at the sky for two hours uninterrupted in my life.
Right.
So.
Go ahead, play it.
One more time.
So that's a plane up there flashing.
But watch that.
Oh, there's something right on the water.
Right on the water.
So that's just the horizon of the ocean?
Thank you.
Thank you.
If you could flash for us and.
I'm getting it.
Right there.
Now it starts going to the right.
It's still in the camera.
Another one pops up right above it.
I see the one up there going left now.
Oh, shit.
And the other one disappears.
The other one disappears.
So, you can see the plane up here, and then this thing is clearly getting brighter and then dims away.
It's very bright.
Thank you.
What is that?
Oh, watch, it goes away.
Oh, you see it?
It's right there.
You see it?
That is an orb.
That is definitely an orb.
I'm tracking it here.
Do you want to look?
Yeah, can you still see it?
There's no land out there.
There's no land.
A flare can't do that.
Right.
Yeah.
No, a flare can't.
It wouldn't do that.
But the one, watch the one come off the horizon again.
It was crazy how it just came up out of that one right there.
Watch.
It's like a rising sun.
Look at that.
Oh.
Wild.
There's something right on the water.
And could you see that with your eyes?
I don't remember.
I was looking through the goggles.
Yeah, I could see it.
If you could flash for us.
And it starts going to the right.
I'm getting it.
That's your orb there.
Right there.
It's still in the camera.
And then it just fizzles out and another one appears.
Crazy.
Thank you.
See the one up there flashing is a plane.
Yeah.
That's great for reference.
Here, someone needs to look through this.
It's very bright.
Thank you.
Oh, you see it?
It's right there.
You see it?
Yeah.
And they were like saying thank you to them.
Like, they think they're spirits, they think they're like angelic beings or something.
But like, I don't know what it was.
I don't know how you can explain that away.
Right.
I was going to say it.
So you see that, you have that experience, and Danny goes home and thinks, what?
Dude, my mind, I was racking my mind for months after that.
I was like, yeah, it fucked me up for a while after that, trying to rationalize what the hell that was.
And have you spent time looking at the sky since and had anything?
In my backyard, yeah.
I haven't gone out anywhere to a remote area and tried to do that or stare at the sky that much.
But yeah, I don't know.
I don't know what the hell it was.
There was also a weird shooting star that went over my head on the beach that night, it was very low, like a shooting star, maybe 100 feet above my head that happened.
Oh, wow.
But I don't know.
I know that he literally goes out and films these things and posts them on his Instagram all the time.
Yeah, no, it's just one after the other.
I've seen it.
Yeah.
So I have no idea.
I have no idea.
It's definitely something.
Yeah.
Like, did he get somebody to go out on a boat and, like, send a Chinese lantern off the boat, maybe, and, like, remote control it somehow, like a drone, maybe?
But that would have been a lot of work.
A lot of work just for convincing you.
Yeah.
Yeah, dude.
It's bizarre.
I have no idea what it was, but I know it was.
It was definitely something.
Yeah.
That was one of the thoughts when I missed the demo or the experience that people had at the Psy games.
It's like, did they set something up?
Like, it would have been a great.
Of the best event to have something happen, you know, all these people are there, but like, why they're such genuine people, too.
Like, yeah, uh, but you never know.
The weird thing about the weird thing about people like Chris, which makes me question everything, is that he has all of these like military intelligence people that are like visiting him, encouraging him that, like, yes, this is biblical, okay, like.
Why?
Why do you have people in military and in the intelligence telling you this and helping reinforce your beliefs and what this is?
Yeah.
That's my question.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Because those folks are not generally known for telling the truth.
Sure.
Yeah, yeah.
That's true.
Yeah, I don't know.
Interesting to think about.
But it seems like that whole world, that whole UFO world, is just so deeply intertwined with those kinds of things.
Like military intelligence world and the government stuff, where it's just like, I don't know.
I've watched you in some of your interviews, and I feel like you're probably like me, where some days you're like, Yeah, this is real.
Yeah.
And then some days you're just like, What is this crock of shit that this person is telling me?
You know, like there's no way that's, you know, like you fluctuate.
And even with the remote viewing stuff, some days I'm like, Wow, there's really, like I get goosebumps.
It's so real.
And then some days I'm like, No, this isn't, no, like what is this?
Like, what am I, you know, I don't know.
Yeah.
It's such a.
An enigma, still, yeah, dude, it's bizarre, yeah.
But, uh, dude, thank you for coming and doing this, Nelson.
This has been fascinating, yeah.
Um, where can people find out more, find more of your work or your YouTube channel, all that kind of stuff?
Yeah, uh, you can start just my website, nelsondells.com.
You can find my YouTube channel with that name, it's memory techniques and any brain abilities that you can teach yourself.
And, uh, you have a couple books out on memory, I have a new one coming out next spring about genius skills that you can teach yourself.
And remote viewing is in there.
Oh, cool.
Some other mental math and memory and speed reading and all that stuff is in there.
So, yeah.
Okay.
There's your website.
Yeah.
A bit of an old photo, but.
What do you use the earmuffs for?
Oh, it's like just to block out distractions.
Okay.
There's no music in there.
It's just sound deafening.
Oh, yeah.
Have you ever done sensory deprivation tank?
No, never.
Really?
Have you?
No.
But that probably would.
I wonder if that would enhance.
It's not like this is in water, right?
Yeah, you float in like salt water.
So there's like no, you don't feel anything.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, there you go.
That's my channel.
I post most of my content on there.
It's a mix of stuff, some fun, some more serious, some interviews sometimes, some silly, but all memory or brain related.