Chris Bell exposes Big Pharma's suppressed performance drugs, detailing his recovery from addiction via Ibogaine and Kratom while critiquing the stigma surrounding these substances. He analyzes GLP-1 microdosing, carnivore diets, and fasting protocols like the lemonade cleanse, arguing that genetics and autophagy matter more than extreme body fat percentages. Bell condemns obsessive parenting in his documentary "Trophy Kids," warning against pushing children into sports for glory, and advocates for bioidentical testosterone and local meats over synthetic alternatives, urging listeners to prioritize genuine health over social media aesthetics. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, WAV2VEC2_ASR_BASE_960H, sat-12l-sm, script v26.04.01, and large-v3-turbo
Time
Text
Ringside Wrestling Memories00:13:05
Were you a ringsider?
I was a ringsider.
It's amazing.
Yeah, I have a good buddy of mine, my friend Mark, who is a huge wrestling fan.
He actually used to be a wrestler when he was younger and was trying out for the WWE, and he brought me to WrestleMania in New Orleans a few years ago.
And then, whenever he gets dope ringside tickets to anything in Tampa, sometimes he'll invite me, and that's where I got that chair.
He's down here in Tampa?
Yeah, he's in actually St. Pete.
What was he?
Did he have a gimmick or anything?
Oh my God, what the f?
Yeah, he did.
He had a, he had his like his whole name and he had like a whole gimmick.
I forget the name of his wrestler now.
He was from, he's actually, he's from Ohio, I think.
So he was based up there.
And then he came down here and then he actually started a company called Hostomania, which like was a web hosting company.
And they got Hulk to be the face of it.
And then, um, They asked me to make like a marketing campaign for Hostomania.
So, me and my buddy were trying to come up with an idea for this commercial to sell this web hosting company that was Hulk Hogan themed.
Yeah.
So, we came up with the idea to put this right when Miley Cyrus came out with her Wrecking Ball video.
She's like, I came in like a Wrecking Ball.
Yeah, she's riding that thing.
So, we're like, we're going to have Hulk coming in like a Wrecking Ball and smashing Jean Claude Van Damme because he was the face of, I think, GoDaddy at the time.
Okay.
So, and Hulk's like, yeah, brother, that's cool, but.
I think I got to do it in my birthday suit.
I'm like, really?
I'm like, okay.
So he ended up doing it in just his little Speedo right there.
And we put him on a wrecking ball.
We built a wrecking ball, went into a production studio, and we put it on top of a crane.
And we had him like swing across the stage on a wrecking ball and smash this dude.
And it went on, I think like TMZ picked it up and it got like millions of views overnight.
It was wild.
Yeah.
We have a long history with wrestling, my brothers and I.
So I don't know if you know, but you know, my older brother, Mad Dog, in Bigger, Schronger, Faster, he was a wrestler.
And I don't know if you talked about it with Mark, but he was a wrestler also.
It was really interesting.
Mark was a wrestler?
Yes.
No, you didn't mention that.
Yeah.
So, and his nemesis was John Cena.
So, what happened was Mark wanted to be, Mark moved out to California.
He sort of followed me.
I went to USC film school.
I was trying to make it as a filmmaker.
But we always loved wrestling.
So, Mark wanted to get into wrestling.
And I said, hey, you know, we know all these people from Gold's Gym and stuff.
And I said, I know this guy.
He was actually Latimer in the program, the movie The Program.
It was the big jack guy that was like putting his head through the car.
Remember?
He threw the girl around.
I've seen the program, but it's not ringing the bell right now.
It was the big giant jack guy putting 315 up over his head.
Okay.
And that shit was all legit.
He really was putting that weight over his head.
So his name's Andrew Bernarski, and he invited us to go down to this wrestling school and check it out.
So we go down, we check it out.
It's awesome.
You know, Mark's like, hey, I want to sign up.
I want to do this.
So Mark starts wrestling.
And then a couple months later, we were working at this company where we moved fitness equipment.
And it's just the oddest coincidence.
We had a friend that worked there, a girl that worked in the office.
Her name was KC.
And she said, Hey, you know, you guys got to meet my friend John.
He's like really buff and he's awesome.
He's just like you guys.
You'd get along great.
We're like, whatever.
Cause we always hear, Oh, this guy's jacked like you.
And then the guy comes in, he's not jacked at all or something.
You know, that's what you think we are usually, right?
But this guy comes in and his arms are just gigantic.
He's like, looks like a cartoon character.
And it's John Cena before he was John Cena.
He's 22 years old.
Oh, wow.
And Mark and I were like, What the hell is this guy all about?
You know, we started talking to him.
We become really good friends with them, and we're like, Hey, well, Mark's in this wrestling school, and you would be awesome at it.
Like, you're just your personality, like the way you look, like you'd be awesome at wrestling.
And he's like, Yeah, I'd love to try it, but I just, I don't really know how to get into it.
I'm like, No, that's what I'm telling you.
We know how to get you into it.
And so we brought John into his first ever wrestling class.
He basically, my older brother, Mad Dog, was like one of his first trainers, along with this other guy, Tom Howard.
Mark was like his nemesis, and I would write all the storylines, you know, for the wrestlers for this company called UPW.
Yeah.
So there's, There's, I think, probably you can probably find matches online and Mark wrestling Cena and stuff like that.
It was just kind of fun.
Like, we pointed him in the right direction and then he just took the ball and ran with it because he was within four months, he was signed to the WWE.
You know, like they came in, they saw him.
They're like, we want that guy.
I mean, like, we, you know, you could just tell he's like one of those people.
There's certain people in your life where you meet and you could just tell.
Yeah.
And then a couple of years later, John actually brought me into WWE.
I didn't last very long.
I was a writer.
And at the time, they were going through writers like crazy and I was.
I was just one of them.
So I got to see how it all works backstage and got to hang out with everybody.
But the cool thing was that I got fired.
I didn't get fired.
It's just like they give you like a six month contract and then it ends and they're like, hey, you know what?
Didn't really work out, whatever.
The reason it really didn't work out was more just the fact that they had kind of head writers and they just listened to the head writers and they wouldn't listen to you at all if you weren't a head writer.
So it's like you just didn't stand a chance, you know?
So that's the way I look at it.
I didn't take it, you know.
Hard, harsh, or anything that I got fired or whatever my contract ended.
But what was really cool is that I went off and I made bigger, stronger, faster.
And after I made bigger, stronger, faster, I got invited to WrestleMania.
I got invited to be backstage at WrestleMania, like in Houston.
I think The Undertaker wrestled Shawn Michaels on that card.
It's just cool.
It's like afterwards, everybody was like, hey, man, you made it.
And then the real kicker was that I was in the bar.
The night of before WrestleMania.
And the guy who was the executive producer, Kevin Dunn, he came up to me and said, Hey, I guess they fired the wrong guy, huh?
And that was just like really cool to hear.
And I'm like, Also, Vince McMahon had called me on the phone.
Like after I made the movie, Vince McMahon called me, The Rock called me.
Really?
Yeah.
So it was really cool because I was like, These are guys that I idolize, I look up to.
So Vince called me and said, You know what?
I actually, I honestly thought that he was calling me to tell me he was going to file a lawsuit because we used a bunch of footage in the movie.
But instead, what he told me is, you said everything I've always wanted to say about steroids.
And you said it so wonderfully and such a unique and fun way.
And I just wanted to tell you, you just did a great movie.
And I thought that was great.
And then The Rock also called me and said, Hey, brother, I know you told me you were going to make this movie, but I had no idea it was going to turn out like this.
And you did a great job.
And then also, Sina, he had told me, because we were buddies, he told me, Hey, man, if you ever make a movie, I'll be there the first night it comes out.
And he was there the first night it came out in Los Angeles.
He flew to Los Angeles on purpose just to come see the movie, which was cool.
That's fucking incredible, bro.
That was a really good movie, too.
Oh, thank you.
I mean, like everything about it, it's like my favorite style of documentary.
It almost reminded me of like one of the early Vice style documentaries because it's kind of like you're walking around, kind of like trolling people a little bit.
Like the way it was edited, like there were some fucking hilarious moments in there.
I think you were making fun of your brother.
You were saying something like, Uh, you know, he started out wrestling in front of 200,000 people.
Now, tonight, he's wrestling in front of 50 people, yeah, behind a gas station.
He was wrestling a midget, right?
Yeah, he was throwing the midget into the crowd.
I don't know.
Are we allowed to say that anymore?
Yeah, we're allowed to say.
So he was, you know, a midget wrestler and he picked him up and threw him, you know, in the crowd.
And, you know, and you get paid like 50 bucks.
And that's the truth of wrestling is like, there are very few John Cena's.
Even my brother Mark, who looks fantastic, he's jacked and shredded.
And he was in pretty good shape back then as well.
Yeah.
Even when he was thicker, he was like puffy.
And even when he was, before he got on the juice, when he was natural, he looked really good too.
Uh huh.
And, um, The thing is that at the time, a guy that was like barely six feet tall, you know, 210 pounds wasn't what they were looking for.
They were looking for, they wanted to see John Cena.
They wanted to see like, you know, somebody who's like super jacked.
And Mark just didn't have that look, I guess.
And he was really good at wrestling, really good at cutting the promos and doing all that stuff.
But he gave it up for powerlifting, which I, as soon as he gave it up for powerlifting, I'm like, what are you doing, man?
There's no money in powerlifting.
You'll never make it in powerlifting.
He's made, you know, probably more money in powerlifting than he would have ever made if he'd gone into wrestling, you know.
Right.
Because he turned it into a business.
Yeah, it's really crazy the lifestyle that some of these pro wrestlers had in the 80s and like the early 90s.
You know, it was such a different world.
And wrestling was like on a completely different level, like WWE, WWF, than it is now, you know?
Like, and just from the stories I've heard from some of these guys, because I've spent a lot of time around Hulk, not like a lot of time around Hulk and Jimmy Hart and like, There's this other dude, Bushwhacker Luke, who lives down the street.
Yeah, I know the Bushwhackers.
He had a gym right down the street in Clearwater.
I used to go to that gym every single day.
Our uncles used to call us the Bushwhackers.
So we would come to, you know, we'd come to Thanksgiving and like, you know, my uncle would be like, ah, the Bushwhackers are here.
And we're like, we're like the worst.
Yeah, why are we the Bushwhackers?
Whoa, Meg D.
Yeah.
Yeah, those guys are hilarious.
And I've spent, you know, I kind of like spent a lot of time working with those guys and like spent, you know, filming like commercials and little ads and stuff with them and like around all Hulk's little companies that he was, Doing over the last, you know, probably like 15 recently, probably like 15 years, 10 years ago, maybe six years ago.
And he also had like a little restaurant bar down the street.
But like, I was never a fan of it.
I just heard the stories and spent a lot of time around these guys and all this stuff until my friend Mark, I was telling you about, brought me to WrestleMania in New Orleans.
And that experience made me a wrestling fan.
Like, it was like the opposite for me.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
What was the main event at that one?
Oh, God.
It was.
I want to say it was John Cena and somebody else.
It was definitely John Cena and somebody else.
But I remember walking down the steps of the stadium to the floor where we were sitting.
And because I went to the bathroom and I was coming down, and then all of a sudden all the lights cut out in the whole arena.
I'm like, what the f happened?
And all of a sudden it was like, gong.
Oh, the Undertaker came out.
I was like, whoa, dude, that was insane, dude.
It just like fucking rattles every fiber of your being and everyone in there, like all the energy is in.
It's like, It's palpable the energy in there, and and uh, like it's such an incredible show with that pyro and everything.
They say that wrestling's fake, you know.
And um, I don't know, like I've seen like Dana White talk about it in interviews.
I love Dana White, I think he's incredible.
And uh, Mark and I have had the chance to like sit down with him, and he's he's just a great guy.
But um, he's not for the theatrics of like the guys coming out and stuff.
And I always said, like, man, one of these days they sort of should go that way because it's so interesting, it makes it so much more fun when these guys have these big entrances.
You know, it's just, it feels gigantic.
And they used to do it back in Pride.
So, I always hope like maybe one day they'll start sneaking that stuff in there now that they're sort of all one company, you know, like WWE.
Cause WWE, even right now, I don't think that necessarily the product is better than it's been, but the way it looks is incredible right now.
Like the things that they're doing, you know, visually are really cool.
It's unbelievable.
I was just watching a clip on Instagram yesterday of The Undertaker coming out on a fucking Harley with ape hangers with Limp Biscuit playing in the middle of the stage and like Pyro going off everywhere.
Like, that's just like that's such a high level of production and entertainment and money they put into that, yeah.
And then the um, the entrances like the other day on wrestling, they did a promo where it was like Cody Rhodes and Seth Rollins, and um, it was uh, whoever the all the top guys are right now was Cena was involved, right?
And everybody got their own entrance, and so like this promo is like 20 minutes because it's like, oh, now Cody Rhodes has to come out, like his music comes on, he does the whole pyro, gets up on the ropes, and then I think it was Randy Orton, he comes out, he does this whole thing, so.
The whole promo took forever just because everybody got their own, right?
You know, full entrance, but it's kind of, I mean, I think that's what the fans come to see.
Yeah, it is.
And they all know it's not real.
They're there for the entertainment.
It's theater.
Yeah, it's fun.
High Production Entertainment00:15:10
You know what I mean?
Yeah, it's super fun.
Those people are there for the thrill of it, the entertainment, the camaraderie of everyone getting together, picking their team, picking their wrestler.
It's, uh, I like going to that event in New Orleans was, yeah, we had a completely different experience.
So we grew up in Poughkeepsie, New York.
And Poughkeepsie, New York was the sort of satellite, like it was the home base of the WWE for television.
So every month they would tape four hours of wrestling in the Mid Hudson Civic Center in Poughkeepsie.
And those four hours would be split up for the next four weeks every Saturday morning.
The Saturday morning, you know, wrestling used to be on Saturday morning at like 10 o'clock in the morning.
And, you know, every show, like we saw it get taped.
Like we were there.
So, like when Hillbilly Jim came out of the crowd to save the Hulkster, like we were little kids and we were there, you know.
And Mark's like four years younger than me, so he's like a little rascal.
And my older brother and I are like, we're like a year and a half apart.
And it was just so much fun for us to sort of grow up kind of as a part of the WWE, even, you know?
Yeah.
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Now back to the show.
Totally.
And the amount of stuff those guys were taking in the 80s was probably on a whole nother level.
Not just the performance enhancing drugs, but the drugs you got to take to get rid of that dislocated hip or your knee or all the crazy injuries those guys would have.
Speaking of that, I worked at WWE as a writer in 2003, 2004.
And I'm not going to mention any names, but I was backstage several times watching people.
Chew up handfuls of Vicodin.
It was like, it was no big deal.
It was just like.
What were the other ones?
And what was the one in Wolf of Wall Street that he was eating?
It's like Vicodins, Percocets.
No, what were they called?
Quayludes.
Quayludes.
They didn't have Quayludes then.
I think Quayludes have been illegal for a certain amount of time since like the 80s or something.
But yeah, everybody always talks about, man, do you ever.
Everybody says you missed out if you haven't tried Ludes.
Right.
Yeah, I heard a lot of stories.
I have no idea what that would feel like.
But yeah, I mean, I just used to see it all the time.
You know, our older brother, Mad Dog, who passed away, unfortunately, He would be a, he was a WWE like jobber where he'd come in, he was enhancement talent.
He'd come in and get beat up on TV and whatever.
And he used to tell me, like, well, the main reason they hire me all the time is like, A, I usually make people look really good.
And B, I always have pills.
And I'm like, what's that mean?
He's like, I just bring the pills, you know, backstage.
And back then it was a free for all.
They don't, right?
They don't play any of those games now.
You know, that's all sort of like gone, but it used to be crazy.
It used to just be a free for all.
And not like it was encouraged, but it just wasn't.
It wasn't stopped.
And it was some of the top guys that were involved in it.
Yeah, it's kind of crazy.
Even today, there's such a stigma around it.
Look at Logan Paul since he joined the WWE.
Oh, yeah.
The transformation with that guy is unbelievable.
Logan Paul, I think a lot of people will come down on him.
I don't care about his crypto scams or anything like that.
He is the best wrestler in the history of wrestling.
Really?
He's the best.
Oh, like real wrestling.
The best.
You go back and watch his first match against like Rey Mysterio, I think it was.
It's incredible.
Like, it's incredible.
Like, I have worked with a lot of wrestlers because we used to run a wrestling school.
And I've seen people come and go and seen people come in and see people do some amazing things.
What Logan Paul can do in the ring athletically is insane.
It's like there's nobody like him.
So people can talk shit about him all they want, but he's going to end up being the face of the WWE in the future, I think.
Really?
Oh, yeah.
I haven't watched any of his matches.
I saw some of like the flying.
Flips and stuff that he's doing like.
I saw a video of him practicing like jumping off of something and like practicing doing these flips onto a mat.
Yeah, I think you'll see Logan Paul, you know, basically shoot through the roof.
As far as WWE goes interesting, as long as he keeps everything else clean.
I know he's got a lot of other scandals and things going on all the time.
Yeah, there's.
Yeah, he seems like he can't escape all the scandals, man.
Yeah, the crypto stuff and all the all the other things that I think when you get that big, it's probably hard to, it's hard to say no to people.
Yeah, he's probably got too many bad people around him.
Yeah Yeah, that's the problem.
You get too many leeches and too many motivated people, people that are motivated just to make money and they don't give a f*** about the longevity of your career or your legacy.
But, I mean, that's kind of like one of the first things you got to figure out if you had that level of fame, right?
Because that's the one thing that could f***ing kneecap your career.
There's not a whole lot of people that figure it out.
Most of the people end up, like most stories end tragically.
Yeah, well, that's the thing.
People get greedy.
It's like you can get somewhere, you know.
Achieve a goal or get to like a certain level where you're like, you're comfortable, you're happy, you don't have to worry about how much money you have to pay to go out.
If you're going out to dinner with a bunch of people, you could pay the bill and not have to worry about how much it costs.
And then, like, you know, people think about, oh, now I got to start 16 businesses so I can monetize this from every possible angle, you know what I mean?
Because eventually it's not going to be here anymore.
So I got to make sure I, you know, create a good retirement and all this stuff.
And then that's when you start letting in people who are just in it for themselves or just in it for the short term gain, which it never ends up well.
Yeah.
And it's crazy now because you can get famous off of almost anything.
You know, if you look at back when Mark and I were growing up, We didn't have social media.
I never filmed, I must have worked out 10,000 times without ever filming one thing.
And so we used to go into the gym, put heavy weights on, work really hard, outwork everybody around us.
And it wasn't for the gram, it was for us.
It was for me.
I want to do this.
You guys weren't in there with a tripod, like filming yourselves?
Yeah, even now it's kind of surprising because Mark does do a lot of social media stuff.
But for the most part, he's not filming all the time.
He's got a guy that will come and film with him now.
But even during the times when he was getting all his stuff online, it wasn't like he was constantly filming.
And he also always had his own gym.
So it was never in the way of anybody or anything.
But I just think now that people go to the gym literally just for the workout, to get the workout on tape so that they can do a social media post.
And that's not going to help you get jacked and tan.
You got to put in the work to do that.
And that's the thing steroids are.
At an all time high, in my opinion, you go on the internet and just everybody's juiced up, you know, from 20 years old on up, you know, 18 years old on up.
And it's just sad to see that it's gone that way and that people aren't really putting in that kind of work anymore.
Yeah.
Well, not only that, but it's sad to see when kids that young are doing it and they're trying to do it the cheap way and they're trying to do it, you know, because when you're 20 years old, no one's going to prescribe you steroids.
So they're buying it behind the gym from some guy who works out at the gym, right?
They're buying it.
Probably for somebody who just cooked it up in a bathtub or something, they don't know what it is.
They've never gotten their blood work done.
They don't know anything about their metabolism or their, you know, any of their levels, their hormone levels or their lipid levels or any of this stuff.
They're just haphazardly doing this.
And then, you know, eventually it's like for some reason they may have to stop or they run out or they move.
And then your body's doing all kinds of crazy shit trying to like rebalance itself.
And, you know, who knows what could happen?
Yeah, they have no idea what's going on.
And, you know, that's the thing is, I encourage everybody who's over the age of 18, men or women, you know, I think everybody should go get their blood work done.
I think that there's a lot of people out there that are struggling with low testosterone.
We drink out of a lot of like plastic bottles, you know, like I'm guilty of it too.
It's like I think we all are.
There's so many things that will lower our testosterone, and both men and women are walking around with low testosterone with all these symptoms of depression.
One of the best ways to beat depression is to have a good testosterone level, you know.
I always say the world needs a shot of testosterone.
You know, it seems like we've gotten a little weak and wimpy in a lot of the things we do.
And I think that relates back to our testosterone levels have dropped 50% in the last 50 years.
So I think people, they don't need it.
If they go and get checked and they don't need it, that's great.
But I also say, like, if you're, even if your levels are like 600, 700, why not have it be like 1,000, which is optimal?
You know, why not have it be in that 900 to 1,000, which is optimal?
And so there's, you know, there's a debate to where, like, I just think it can help so many people.
I've seen it personally help hundreds of thousands of people, like in, you know, just through what I do, you know.
And when, you know, when I made my film, I had no idea the impact it would have on the world.
I think you don't know, you know, what impact you'll ever have on the world.
But I've talked to so many people that are, you know, pretty like high up in what they do.
For example, like I work now, I work with a compounding pharmacy now in Houston called Empower Pharmacy.
My boss saw bigger, stronger, faster and said, like, I need to, Like, I need to work with you.
Like, we need to do stuff together because, like, you, like, your film changed my life.
The reason I have this compounding pharmacy is because I watched your movie.
And, um, and when I watched your movie, I was like, that's what I need.
And this guy's message is right.
Like, steroids aren't the bad guy.
The bad guy is like using these things, you know, without any sort of indication that you need them, you know?
Right.
And I think that's like sort of my message is like, don't make testosterone the bad guy.
Use it if you need it.
If you don't use it, If you don't need it, then don't use it.
That's the problem with any drug.
The biggest thing is education.
You got to have the education around it.
People need to be able to understand it.
And you can't just blackball it.
So people are forced to buy it on the black or gray market.
Yeah, it's a huge problem when people are buying it behind the gym.
Yeah.
I have a guy that came to me and said, he said to me, he's like, if you're not homebrewing, you're doing it wrong.
And I'm like, what do you mean?
So I was like, what do you mean homebrewing?
And this guy, like, no offense, but he looked like he came straight out of like a trailer park.
And I said, what do you mean, like, Homebrewing, he's like, I just make my own.
Yeah.
I'm like, you make your own.
And he starts telling me like how he makes his own testosterone, like, you know, in his sink.
And it's like, that's not the way to do it, dude.
Right.
You know, but I guess it is a lot cheaper.
And then I told my brother about it.
My brother's like, oh, that's great.
I used to get stuff like that all the time when I was powerlifting.
I had a bunch of guys that would make their own.
And I'm like, yeah, I don't know about that, you know?
Yeah, I got some friends who buy their shit from guys at the gym and they, you know, they never got their blood work done and they seem to be doing fine.
I mean, they're.
Huge, yeah, steroids work, you know.
That thing is, they they work, but um, at some point, you're gonna hit a you're gonna sort of hit a limit, you know.
And then, like, how big do you want to get?
You know, I think I used to think it was really cool, even the name of the movie is Bigger, Stronger, Faster.
I used to think it was like really cool to be really big.
Now, I'm like, how do I get smaller?
How do I get leaner?
I want to get skinnier, right?
Right, you know, be functional, right?
Yeah, be able to do like I'm like, I've worked out my whole life, I've been going to the gym, at least since I've been in high school, I've been I've gone to the gym, like, I never.
Been one to want to get really bulky or jacked, but like I grew up skateboarding and surfing and doing stuff like that.
So I always wanted to be able to swim fast and be agile.
I never wanted to be so freaking jacked that I couldn't move, you know?
Yeah.
So I think genetics has a huge hand to play in that as well, you know?
Yeah.
Definitely.
But like I think it's, you know, it's changed.
Like the culture has changed.
Like I think you guys talked about this in the Bigger, Stronger, Faster documentary, but you were talking to somebody.
I think it was like a lawyer or a doctor or something like that.
And he was showing you the G.I. Joes.
Like, here's the original G.I. Joe.
Then look at the next one.
He's got serratus muscles.
He's got a six pack.
And here's the new G.I. Joe.
And it just talks about, you know, how like Arnold was big in the 90s or whatever.
And that, and then there were Stallone and that kind of like the evolution of culture and movies and Hollywood kind of like played a role in pushing that mainstream.
And, you know, now it's kind of like we're on the backside of that now.
We're on more of a dip, I feel like.
And it's not. a super popular thing to be jacked out of your gills anymore.
You know what I mean?
I think more like.
Realize it's not attractive.
Yeah.
Like the other guy in the documentary with the freaking biceps like this.
He's like, You think any girls walk up to me saying, Damn, that guy's hot?
Yeah.
No, their freaking boyfriends are face palming them and coming up to me saying, Bro, how did you do that?
Exactly.
Like, dude, you attract dudes.
You attract guys, you know, and that's the thing.
It's like, even with the movie, after I made Bigger, Stronger, Faster, that's all that would come up to me.
Like, I don't think I've ever, I maybe had like one girl come up and say, Hey, good job on that movie.
It's all dudes.
It's like, they come up and they're like, Hey, man.
And they're like, You know, you'll be, Output transcript Out somewhere and they'll just corner you forever and want to talk to you about your movie.
And you're like, eh, I don't really care that much.
Like, get away, you know?
But it's just funny how it is like such a guy thing, you know?
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Parenthood Hormones Explained00:03:05
Back to the show.
And also, like, testosterone is such a weird thing.
It's such like a weird hormone.
Well, you know, like, it's like, The biggest provider of testosterone and the biggest customer for testosterone in the entire United States is Planned Parenthood.
And it's for gender transformation.
Is it really?
Absolutely.
That's the number one.
They're the number one user of testosterone.
Really?
Yeah.
Shows you how out of control it is.
And it goes to Planned Parenthood?
Yeah, it's Planned Parenthood.
I don't know why.
I guess that's where they give it out or they dispense it in some.
Some way, but I remember like one of the really interesting things is Joe Biden was a guy who said, There's something simply un American about this, and he pounded his fist on the table.
But back before that, even in 1990, he's the one that was a senator that pushed so hard against the advice of the DEA and the Center for Human Health, what is it, Health and Human Services?
HHS, yeah.
He went against their recommendations and the American Medical Association.
All three of those recommended that.
They don't make steroids a schedule three drug.
They don't make them illegal.
They don't put testosterone in this, you know, class where nobody can get it.
And he came out and said, no, you know, we're going to go against that.
And then Biden wanted it to be scheduled.
And Biden got it scheduled.
Yeah.
And he got it scheduled.
And that sort of like was his claim to fame.
But then just recently, you know, before he went out of office, his administration was pushing hard to now legalize testosterone for these gender affirming care patients.
Oh my God.
So guys playing baseball.
Ball can't use it, but kids, minors who want to change their sex can use it.
And I'm not sure, like, the ages or anything like that.
You know, you hear a lot of crazy things like, oh, 15 year olds are getting it.
I don't know if that's true or not, but I've heard the stories and, like, who knows what's true.
I'm sure it gets blown out of proportion, you know, in the media, like the mainstream media.
People like to use that as, like, a rallying cry to their team, you know, like, oh, we got to fix all the trans, all the trans.
But, you know, sometimes the truth is in the middle.
You never really know where, what's the real narrative.
And to be honest, if that's making people happy, I don't care what it's being used for.
I just don't want it to be illegal for me.
I don't want it to be hard for me to get it.
It shouldn't be fucking legal for kids, though.
For people to be like, for children and kids.
No, not for children and kids.
There's definitely, yeah, that's tough.
You definitely need an age limit and a parental consent and probably like some sort of psychological evaluation, I think, as well.
I think a lot of people get into that and they don't know what they're getting into.
Yeah.
So, yeah, definitely not for kids.
A lot of people, a lot of smart people think that like when these people are going through this, these psychological issues where they think they're a different gender or they're like a man and a woman's body, a woman and a man's body.
People have said that they're just mentally ill gays.
Or just like gay people who are going through depression or going through any kind of thing and they're just confused.
Steroid Narratives and Kids00:07:36
They're young.
I mean, that's being like that when you're young is normal.
I think a lot of times time would be the key factor.
You need time.
You know, like you feel like that.
Are you going to feel like that in five years from now?
Probably not.
You know, right.
Right.
It's the same thing with getting, you know, your face tattooed.
Like you're not going to let fucking five year old Johnny get his face tattoo on his face just because he thinks Spider Man's cool.
Or he's going to regret that when he's 12.
Kids would ask for that, you know, exactly.
Yeah.
Exactly.
Um, But so, also, Bruce Jenner is an interesting one because Bruce was taking steroids, right?
When he was in the Olympics.
So, I heard I have a friend, his name's Tom File.
He's amazing, he's hilarious.
He's this jacked power lifter, and he's like 60 years old now.
He's still squatting like 600 pounds.
He's just one of the most maniacal people I ever met.
He used to work the front desk at Gold's Gym, and he used to train Bruce when it was Bruce.
Really?
Yeah.
And I think that Bruce was on the juice.
Um, that rhymes, that sounds cool.
Uh, he used to train Bruce because nobody else would train Bruce.
Um, he has not confirmed to me whether or not he was on uh steroids, but basically, like when you hang out at Gold's Gym in Venice, you're on steroids.
I don't care who you are.
I worked out at Gold's Gym Venice for probably about 22 years straight, and I've met everybody that's come through those doors.
And um, most of the people that come through those doors are gonna end up taking something, no matter who they are.
You know, it's just that's that's the environment.
That place gives off, you know, really kind of in a weird way.
When I shot Bigger, Stronger, Faster, they let me shoot in there.
And then I was so excited that I made the movie and it got in the Sundance Film Festival.
And like, hey, this is going to be, you know, a bit, you know, on Netflix and all those things.
And so I got all excited and I went in with a poster and I was like, can we put this poster up in here?
Because I have all these posters of like all the famous people that have been through Gold's.
And I'm like, I'm finally going to get my poster on the wall, Gold's Gym.
And they were like, hell no.
You said in your movie, That people come to Gold's Gym and take steroids.
I'm like, where did I say that in the movie?
I've never actually said it.
I never even equated it.
I just said, the movie was about steroids and Gold's Gym is in it because I work out at Gold's Gym.
But I never said anything derogatory about Gold's Gym and people going there using steroids.
But now I will because people go there and use steroids.
But it's just interesting that they wouldn't hang my poster on the wall.
So they have the posters on the wall of all the guys that have used steroids.
Worked out at Gold's Gym and their posters on the wall.
What's so funny?
But my poster's not supposed to be there.
Yeah, that's so silly.
I can't believe they would do something like that.
But as far as Bruce, what do you make of.
Is there any connection between people who would, allegedly, if Bruce was using steroids or doing something to him, like all of a sudden going trans?
Is there any sort of pattern there with people?
I don't think so.
I don't know.
I know I've heard people say, like, oh, he shot up so much steroids that it turned to estrogen and it turned him into a woman.
I just think he was.
It has to be doing it on time.
Yeah, I mean, I don't think he would be taking that much testosterone, especially for what he was doing.
But if you look at his comeback story, there's a great documentary about Bruce Jenner on Netflix.
And it's amazing to see what he did, where he came from.
And so I don't think somebody can come from like, I think he was 10th, maybe 10th place the year before.
And then he just shot up to like first place.
So I don't think you do that naturally.
I don't know.
I mean, maybe you do, maybe you don't.
You know, I know that like certain people, like when I grew up, I was a huge Yankees fan.
And Reggie Jackson, we would go see Reggie Jackson play.
And he'd always be cranking home runs, and he owned a Gold's Gym.
And I'm always like, where there's smoke, there's fire.
Like, we don't know that he used steroids, but you got to think, like, well, Reggie Jackson owned a Gold's Gym.
You know, Ric Flair owned a bunch of Gold's Gyms.
And like, did he really?
Yeah.
Who are these guys that, you know, they're, I just think that like where there's smoke, there's fire.
There's no reason to think that they wouldn't, you know, wouldn't do it.
You look at a lot of people, Like, for example, I've done an interview with Lance Armstrong.
He was awesome to talk to.
But Lance Armstrong's not a very big guy.
Right.
You know, like he doesn't look like.
And I've done an interview with Floyd Landis, who was, you know, the subsequent winner of the Tour de France after Armstrong.
And he doesn't look, you know, he's 145 pounds.
So it's like not always like the person that looks like they take steroids.
Right.
It's not, yeah.
The goal is not always just to get super jacked.
Right.
Like NBA players.
Right?
Like, I'm sure LeBron James is on a whole bunch of shit.
Well, he has to be.
I mean, they.
But he's not super jacked.
I mean, he's muscular.
Yeah, he's muscular.
He's muscular, but he needs more than anything, he needs to be able to fucking play full court basketball for two and a half hours.
I would say that anybody at that level, if they're not on it, they're kind of stupid because the NBA actually has like a therapeutic use exemption where you can use testosterone up to a certain amount.
I think your levels can't be.
Do they really?
Yeah, I think it's like a low key thing.
I know they don't really.
I thought ETO was the big thing with the basketball players.
I don't know if they're using EPO, but why wouldn't they?
Right.
You know, if they're not testing for it, you know, who cares?
I mean, I don't think anyone's looking at the NBA's drug testing close enough to monitor.
I could be wrong, but I know people that have played in the NFL.
You know, I know people that went to Balco when Balco was in session and they never got tested, you know?
So they've told me, you know, oh yeah, like I used to go to Balco and I'm like, well, how many times do you get tested during the year?
Like, none, you know, like never got tested.
And so I've just heard so many stories.
I don't think, I also went to USC.
And when I went to USC, we had a great football team.
And a lot of these guys that are like offensive linemen, defensive linemen, they're just huge guys.
And I would talk to them about steroids and they'd have no clue.
I'd talk to the second stringers, third stringers, they'd know everything about steroids.
So I think it's like there's these in the NFL, NBA, wherever, you're going to have like all these freaks, right, that aren't taking anything, which is surprising and shocking.
And then you're going to have some people that take stuff that it makes them better.
It makes them good enough to be on that starting team, you know?
And so I don't know.
It's just so hard to tell because I used to be one of those people where I used to think everybody was on something.
But I've met so many people that when I talk to them, I get a sense that they don't know enough about it.
Like, I mean, if they're taking it, they're taking it maybe through some sort of coach because they just don't know anything about it.
And maybe they're playing stupid.
A lot of people don't care.
I know a lot of people do it all the time and don't know shit about it.
Like, I don't know.
If they fucking sent it to me, I'd jam it in my ass.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, it could be, you know?
Yeah.
But I also just think there's, I think there is a good amount of natural people out there, but it's dwindling.
You know, I think it's getting smaller and smaller as we, you know, as we move through time.
But it's like, you know, my brother had a gym in Sacramento and we'd have all sorts of people come through there and train with us.
And I couldn't tell you how many guys would say they're natural.
And it's like, what are you going to do?
Confront them to their face and be like, no, you're not.
Placebo Effects and Drugs00:16:06
Show me your blood work.
You know, yeah, and it's just, uh, it's not even at a point, it's like not even worth it, right?
To, um, to worry about it.
Like, I always tell people, just worry about yourself.
Yeah.
You know, totally.
And there's, you know, for things like the NFL, I don't like, I don't know what the optimal steroids or human growth hormone, what the optimal like stack would be for an NFL player or an NBA player.
But I would imagine, at least for NFL players, dudes who are getting the shit beat out of them every single week, that they would at least need testosterone and like some sort of growth hormone just to be able to.
Just to be able to heal their body every week, right?
Maybe some peptides.
To turn around in seven days is a lot to ask when you're really crushing your body like that.
There's some peptides that can help, like BPC 157.
Oh, yes.
BP 500.
Is that considered a steroid or is that just a peptide?
They're peptides.
Okay.
I have tried, honestly, like I have a really bad shoulder.
I tore my rotator cuff, I tore my tricep, and it just never healed right.
And so I've tried gallons of BPC 157 in my shoulder.
I've tried.
Literally hundreds of thousands of dollars of stem cells.
Luckily, I make documentaries and I've gotten them comped from some different people.
And so I've made it, I've had probably $100,000 worth of stem cells in my shoulder with no, not one positive effect.
Really?
I've had, I have a good friend who also paid tons of money for stem cells and he said he, in his back, and he said he never felt any sort of, yeah, I felt zero benefit.
I felt zero benefit from BPC 157, maybe the injuries too.
Uh intense, but I have other people that say they've injected it in their knee or something and all the pain went away.
Yeah, i've injected a bpc in my in my hand before when I like up a tendon in my thumb, and it helped a lot.
Yeah, but that's the only place, so I don't.
I don't doubt it, it just like it's.
It's not something that worked for me, so that's a different.
The stem cells, though the the interesting thing about the stem cells is there's like the, the general, like general population stem cells, and then there's the ones that you can get that are actually like you can get from like a, your own wife's placenta.
Yeah, that are like, or.
I guess that would work for the dude though.
If it was from.
Oh, no, no, I'm sorry.
It's the cord blood.
If you have a baby, you can get the bank the cord blood or the umbilical cord.
And if you use those stem cells, those match your DNA and those apparently are like 100% effective.
But like the general mill stem cells, like the general population stem cells aren't necessarily.
I used two different kinds.
One time I went to Mexico and went to a place called Eterna Health.
And like I said, they had all these other treatments that I got.
It was great.
But.
The stem cells did not work in my knee and in my shoulder.
Then I went to another place in Austin where they're not allowed to use the same kind of stem cells they use in Mexico.
But I was told that the ones that in Austin are actually from, like, I think, like you said, like a placenta or something.
Whereas, like, the ones in Mexico were like they drew them from me and then they spun them up and they injected them back into me.
Yes.
And then the one in Austin, they just went, you know, boom, right into me.
And the ones that they went right into me in Austin, those seemed to work for my knee.
But they didn't do anything for my shoulder.
So it's weird, right?
Because I feel like they helped, but I don't feel like they helped.
They don't help enough for me to, I couldn't recommend it to you.
Right.
There's probably a little bit of placebo effect.
Yeah, I wouldn't tell you, like, oh, man, go get stem cells.
It's going to be great.
Yeah, you'd probably kill me if you spent the money and went down there.
Right, right.
Yeah, there's got to be some level of placebo effect to it.
But that's interesting.
It worked on your knee and not your shoulder.
Maybe your shoulder's just completely wrecked.
That could be it, you know?
Yeah.
I had a dude in here.
I was telling your brother about this, but I had a dude in here who was a Coach for, I think it was University of Florida, the Gators.
He was a, or not like the head coach, but he's like one of the coaches.
Yeah.
You know, they have a whole team of coaches.
And he was telling me all of the, like the receivers and the running backs are jacked on Adderall.
Oh, yeah.
And I was like blown away.
I'm like, what?
Adderall is a huge drug everywhere.
I mean, I think that's, you know, it's everywhere.
Yeah.
And like if you watch the videos, like some of the slow mo videos, even the guys in the NFL running, like Antonio Brown or who's the other guy?
Derek Henry.
You see the videos through his helmet, their freaking eyes are like saucers.
When I said in Bigger, Stronger, Faster, we show like, okay, well, If this is cheating, why isn't this cheating?
And we show all these other industries where they use beta blockers for musicians.
Well, you're in an audition, that's a competition.
What's a beta blocker?
A beta blocker calms you down.
So people will use them in golf.
I think they're banned because they calm you down so much that you don't have jitters.
And so people use beta blockers for stuff like that, but they'll use it for if they have an audition for the cello, they'll go in and they'll use beta blockers so they're not all shaky.
Just to quell the anxiety in the moment.
Yeah.
And so it's like a performance enhancing drug.
You know, we showed that all the fighter pilots have to have Adderall with them.
They have to have it with them.
What's it called?
There's one specific we learned about recently called Provigil or something like that.
Yeah, Provigil.
Madafanil, Provigil, same thing.
Madafanil is a pretty safe drug from what I know.
I know Dave Asprey recommends it highly.
He talks about it a lot and he says it's fairly safe compared to all the other ones.
I don't know.
I'm not promoting it in any way.
I'm just saying I know that he uses it and he's a high functioning guy.
It's basically a watered down Adderall.
Is it?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I've had, I've taken Adderall.
Adderall is crazy.
Like, I've gotten.
I hate Adderall.
I can't stand it.
Yeah.
I got pretty spun up on it for a while.
Like, I don't know.
I, you know, I used to live in LA and I went through this whole period of time where I had a double hip replacement surgery.
And for a while, I was just searching for anything that could help me feel better.
And so I would go to these doctors that would prescribe you anything and I would get anything.
They'd be like, oh, how about this?
Okay, great.
How about this?
How about this?
And so I was taking like Xanax and Adderall.
And it's like you take one pill to go up, one pill to go down.
And it gave me a great education on drugs and what they can do and how they can help people.
But I am so far from that guy, you know, because I was a mess when I was doing that, you know.
And I think that, yeah, I think that people that mess with stuff like Adderall, I sort of feel bad because it'll suck you in pretty quick.
Yep.
You gotta be careful, and I think people really need to be careful with that one, especially.
I keep a couple, I got some from a friend, and I keep a couple like with me because every once in a while I need one.
Like the other day, I needed one because I didn't sleep at all.
Because we went out to a Metallica concert and we were up all freaking night.
And then it's my favorite band, is it really?
Oh, yeah, it's awesome.
Oh my god, I just had the craziest weekend hanging out with Metallica.
And uh, you got to hang out with them, I was hanging out with Kirk all weekend, it's amazing, yeah.
And anyways, I didn't sleep that night, and then um, my kid woke up at like freaking five o'clock in the morning, and then the next day I had to work, so I was like, I took a A quarter of a 20 milligram Adderall, five milligrams.
And it's just like, I mean, I take it in the past.
When I was younger, I used to take it a couple times a week just to get work done.
And it just, it sucks the soul out of me.
It just turns me into a robotic machine that can just complete tasks.
But it helps you get through the day.
It helps you get through the day.
Yeah.
But then the next day, I feel like shit again because you're robbing the dopamine from tomorrow for today.
I think there is no drug on the planet that doesn't like, It gives and it sucks.
You know what I mean?
It gives a little and then it sucks a little.
And that's what I look a little bit differently towards something like testosterone because testosterone is a hormone and it's a hormone that we need and it's a hormone that helps us perform better.
And I don't see that many drawbacks to it.
Whereas with a lot of these other pharmaceuticals, I see they have a great upside, but they also have a great downside.
Even things like we were talking about Kratom before.
I think I was kind of the catalyst for why Kratom exploded in this country.
When I made the movie A Leaf of Faith, I was on Joe Rogan's podcast talking about Kratom.
Yeah, you were on Rogan's podcast, what, like three times?
I think four.
Four times.
And I was a huge proponent of Kratom.
I told, I was, by the way, quick side note, I was telling your brother, I was laughing my ass off when he was talking about his kale salads.
And you're like, what the fuck?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I have a T bone, pussy.
Yeah, yeah.
That was so funny.
He's like, what?
I feel great with my kale shakes.
Yeah, yeah.
So it's funny the evolution.
Yeah.
And so Rogan was instrumental in actually keeping Kratom legal.
This is pretty insane, but.
Really?
Yeah.
So.
When I was making the movie, I had become friendly with Joe from being on his podcast.
And then he invited us to go to like a UFC.
And so I went to this UFC and I saw him there and chatted with him and whatever.
And I told him, Hey, man, they're going to ban Kratom.
Like literally in a couple of days, can you mention this on your podcast?
And he's like, Oh, yeah, sure.
Why don't you come in?
Like, come in on this date.
I'm like, Come in?
You want me to be on your podcast again?
He goes, Yeah, just, he's like, We'll just do like an emergency podcast and we'll talk about.
The kratom problem.
If I can help, that's great.
And so I went in there and I talked about it, and I basically told everything I know.
I mean, this is a natural plant, and this is before they've made all these kratom extracts and all these really high potency kratom products.
This was just like simple, like leaf kratom, you know, a ground up leaf.
If anybody doesn't know what kratom is, it's basically a plant from Southeast Asia that's in the same family as the coffee family.
And it is a mild opioid that will make you feel.
Really good.
But if you take a lot of it over a long period of time, it will become addictive, just like anything else.
Habit forming.
It's hard to get off of if you're taking a lot of it.
But we've always saw that, like, hey, if you keep it under like 10 grams a day, you'll never have a problem.
Like, it's not going to be, I mean, I shouldn't say never, but for the most part, if you keep it under a certain amount a day, you're not going to have a problem.
And what the problem is, people start making, you know, all these concoctions.
Where they're taking 50 milligrams of kratom, 100 milligrams of kratom, it becomes very addictive, right?
But back to what I was saying with Joe, I went on the podcast and I said, listen, the DEA is going to schedule this as a drug unless we can get like 25,000.
I think it was 10,000.
If we can get 10,000 signatures, you know, not even signatures, like you had to write a short email to the DEA.
If you write a short email to the DEA saying they should keep kratom legal, You know, say something like, Hey, Kratom helped my brother's back problem.
Kratom helped me, you know, get through school.
Kratom helped me with it.
Tell them why, in an honest way, it helped you.
Or even tell them why you don't think it should be legal.
I don't care what you tell them.
Just tell them something because if they get more than 10,000 comments, they have to read them all.
And if they have to read them all, most likely they'll just back down because they're not going to want to read them all.
And so the next day, we went and checked the website and there was like 28.
Thousand people that sent emails.
No way.
Yeah, into the DEA to say, hey, we should keep Kratom legal.
We should keep looking at it.
The problem with kratom is the same problem we have with weed in this country.
It's like, you know, kratom used to be this wholesome plant that was, you know, did so much good for so many people.
But then they start making extracts, they start making concentrates.
They are now making, taking alkaloids of kratom and separating them out and making really super concentrated forms of kratom, which I'm not against.
What I'm against is that they sell them in smoke shops and they don't tell people how addictive they can be.
They don't, they're not educating people on them.
There might be a reason for me to do another documentary that would follow up A Leaf of Faith, which is my documentary on Kratom, to sort of really just educate people about it so that we don't get ourselves into another opioid epidemic.
Because I do believe that this new product, it's called 7 OH or 7 hydroxymetragenine, it's an alkaloid of Kratom.
I believe 7 hydroxymetragenine?
Yes.
You can buy it at any smoke shop.
You walk into a smoke shop or even gas stations now, you'll see tons of it everywhere.
And the problem is people are spending, you know, it's expensive.
It's like for on average for five tablets, it's like 35 bucks.
So it's like seven bucks a tablet.
People are taking five tablets at once.
You know, they're taking it all at once and they're.
What's the effect?
It'll get you high like an Oxycontin.
Okay.
But, but if you take it in like a lower dose, just a normal dose, it'll kill pain like crazy.
So that's where I'm coming in saying like, well, you're not supposed to take the whole damn package.
Right.
But like I can't control that.
And so, in order to control, and the companies that are coming out, they're coming out and they're called OPEA or they're called Pressed or they're called Blues.
They have these names that sound like drugs.
And when I have names that sound like drugs, it can turn people off.
It's sort of telling you, like, hey, man, you're buying a drug.
And if we want to make this a potent painkiller that can really help people, there needs to be some sort of process or some sort of way to do that.
So, I'm actually talking to some people about.
Possibly doing another documentary about Kratom because I do think it can really help a lot of people, but it needs to be there needs to be education on it.
The same thing, also, like on the flip side of Kratom, is Ibogaine.
Yeah.
And I'm also talking to some people about doing a documentary about Ibogaine because if people don't know what Ibogaine is, it'll flip an opioid addiction in like 48 hours.
It's one of the most insane drugs I've ever dealt with.
It will reset all your neurotransmitters.
In your body, it'll kill pain in your body.
For me, I did an Ibogaine trip.
You can actually watch it on YouTube.
It's called Ibogains.
So it's I B O G A I N Z.
I love it.
And it's just a little short film I put together about my experience.
It's gotten ripped off of YouTube like several times.
So it's been on there and off there and on.
And it's back on there anyway.
But so I just made this short film about my experience with Ibogaine.
And the reason I did Ibogaine was simply because I have such bad chronic pain.
Like I said, I was going through a period of time where.
I was doing whatever I could to try to get out of chronic pain.
After I did Ibogaine, the day after, this is stupid, right?
I went from not being able to walk, like barely able to walk every day.
I'd wake up and I'd literally be in tears walking around and I'd be just walking around doing my daily stuff.
And this is going to sound like a pussy, but I'd be crying, going, I need help.
Like, I need fucking help.
I can't do this anymore.
You know, like I'm done.
And if this doesn't help, I don't know what I'm going to do.
Like, I'm done, you know?
And, um, I was like, don't want to even say, but I was like suicidal, you know, to a point where I was like, this pain is so bad.
There's nothing I can do to heal this or fix this.
So I called a friend.
He lives in Boston.
His name is Jim.
And Jim is like, he's amazing.
He's got this thick Boston accent.
He's like an old school bodybuilder from Boston.
Ibogaine Recklessness Confessed00:10:21
And Ibogaine saved his life.
So he came out to visit me.
It was the day before the world shut down for the pandemic.
So it was March 16th, 2020.
He flew out like last minute.
Um, administered ibogaine to me.
I went on a trip that lasted, I want to say, like three or four days, where I was like in the clouds, like I don't know where I went.
It lasted that long.
Yeah, my soul like left my body.
How do you take it?
It's just a pill, just a pill, it's just, and it lasts that long.
Yeah, it was a series of pills, so what it was was, I took like 250 milligrams, I think, every like every hour, maybe for five or six hours.
So so, and what happened was um, I dosed it at a really, really high level because my pain was so bad and I kept like asking for more.
I don't know why because I was in the middle of the trip.
And I ended up taking about two grams of it, which is a lot.
Like if you go to a clinic in Mexico, they'll probably give you one gram.
But I think because I got two grams, I blasted off to the moon.
It was so in the beginning of it, it was the most horrific, like horrible.
You see every tragedy in your life, every bad thing that's happened.
In your life, and you just keep turning the page, and then something's worse comes up, and then something worse comes up, and it's like you're reliving all these past memories.
But then all of a sudden, like I got through all these like bad memories of like being picked on in school, yeah, you know, like you'd remember the most unique, like weird things.
And then all of a sudden, like I saw a flashbulb go off, and I'm like, oh, there goes all my depression, and another flashbulb goes off and goes, there goes all the anxiety, and another flashbulb goes off and goes, there goes all the pain.
Hey, you're free, you're free to go.
And then I saw my older brother who passed away.
And I was telling your producer, Steve, before, it's not like I felt like I saw and talked to my brother.
I talked to my brother.
Like it was real.
It was so real.
I can't describe how it's hard to describe how close it was to like a real interaction.
Like I feel it was real.
You know, like I feel like my brother came to me and said, Hey, I know I fucked up and I did a lot of drugs and I did a lot of crazy things in my life.
but I'm here where I am because this is where I'm supposed to be and none of this is your fault.
And like that was so profound and crazy.
It was like literally the most profound thing that ever happened to me.
It was like, wait, what just happened?
Like all this stuff that I was holding on to for years just left my body, you know?
And then the day after I did Ibogaine, I walked into the gym and I put four, like, you know, I was always a power lifter.
So I put 405 on the bar and go, let me just like, I just started working out.
I was like, okay, let me do one plate.
Okay, two plates, three plates, four plates.
I go up to four plates the day after I did Ibogaine and I do, you know, a set of 10 with 405.
Going from like, I can't walk to like, let me lift 405 for 10 reps to me was just like the most insane thing that I've ever, like, ever happened to me.
And I'm like, this drug needs to be explored.
This needs to be looked at.
This needs to be something that people can have access to.
Because I don't know what the fuck happened.
You know, like I still don't know.
That's so wild, bro.
You know, Mark always says, be careful.
Because, like, for six months afterwards, I was telling everybody, I was like, I will gain preacher.
Like, everybody needs this, you know?
And then you sort of mature and you learn, like, hey, just chill because, like, what is it going to be like in six months?
And that's where my brother comes in.
He's really wise with all that stuff.
And he said, give it some time before you tell everybody.
Right.
And so I just started, like, you know, I calmed down a little bit, like telling people about it.
And then, of course, the pain came back.
You know, it came back again.
How long did it take?
About six months.
But if we could find something, there's something in there.
If you could find something that can kill pain for six months and you only had to do it once, why can't you figure out a way to make that molecule into something where you don't have to have that?
You don't have to maybe go through that trip again.
Like maybe there's something there, put it that way.
And big pharma is not looking into it.
You know, nobody's looking into it.
They're looking into it.
They're looking how to subvert it.
Yeah, how to shut it down.
How to keep it shut down.
And there's a guy I'm helping, I've been helping and working with a little bit.
His name's Brian Hubbard.
He's amazing.
He's like, he was on Rogan before.
Okay.
I think he might be the longest speaker on Joe Rogan with Rogan not talking.
Really?
Oh, yeah.
He talked for like 25 minutes straight about Ibogaine and how amazing he is.
Yeah, I remember that one.
Yeah.
That guy is going to.
So right now in Texas, where I live, ibogaine is up to be legalized for uh, you know, clinical trials, so we might get some clinical trials soon.
If we get clinical trials, it'll be, you know, available for people to use.
But I think we need to expand it.
Right now, it's like they're really focusing on veterans with ptsd and they're focusing on uh, addicts more, more on veterans yeah, I think, people with addicts.
Unfortunately, I think people throw them away.
Who cares about the addicts?
Like, let's help the, the veterans?
You know, there's this dude, Dana Beal, I think that's his name, Dana Beal, who is this?
He's this hardcore psychedelic guy from the psychedelic renaissance, old school guy who is allegedly piloting.
He's flying Ibogaine from Africa to the Ukraine to give Ibogaine to the Ukraine soldiers.
Wow.
To help them, like, to treat their, not only, like, battle fatigue and the PTSD, to, like, help them process that and, like, get back out in the battlefield, which is wild.
So he's giving them Ibogaine.
And then I think the Russian soldiers are getting, um, Some form of like meth.
Wow.
Yeah, it's insane.
But like that's super helpful.
And I know the government is definitely spending a lot of money studying this shit, especially there is this lab, chemistry lab, I think it is, up in North Carolina that DARPA gave a $20 million grant to to figure out how to take the trip out of psychedelics, certain psychedelics.
So they could basically give.
Soldiers, the psychedelics, and have the benefit of the psychedelic for PTSD recovery, things like this, but without having the hallucination.
Yeah, they actually did it.
It's really interesting.
So I talked to this guy.
I want to say his name's Dr. Olson.
I think his name's Dr. David Olson.
He's in.
Yeah, Nichols?
David Nichols?
I think it's Olson.
Okay.
And he's in.
So there's Nolan Williams.
He's at Stanford.
He's doing a lot of the Ibogaine studies.
But this other guy at UC Davis, because I used to live in Davis, that's kind of where Mark lives in that area.
And so when I was there, I talked to this guy who basically was able to synthesize ibogaine.
It's called like Tabernathologue.
And Tabernathologue is available on, you know, like the research chemical sites where you can buy, you know, all the peptides.
Yeah.
You can get this stuff called Tabernathologue.
And it's like Tabernathologue.
It's like $700 a gram, but it's ibogaine without, Without the high, they've basically said that they can take what happens with an Ibogaine trip and put it into a pill.
But you can buy it as a research chemical.
It's just that, like, not for human consumption.
Yeah.
Well, here's the thing like, my girlfriend doesn't like me doing any of this stuff and experimenting and messing around.
So I try to stay, you know, true to that.
I would love to order it and try it.
But if I order it and try it, I'm going to get in trouble.
So I need somebody else to try it for me to see, like, hey, man, what happens, you know, because, uh, I understand.
I understand, like, not, you know, hey, don't try this, don't try that.
Because I, in the past, to be honest, I had been very reckless with, you know, different substances.
And I think that being reckless, though, has brought me back around to like now being a lot more responsible with stuff.
Sure.
You know, because I'm like, whoa, man, that was wild.
You know, like I've, when I experimented with psilocybin mushrooms, I really experimented.
I've gone up to, I've talked to my friend Kyle Kingsbury.
He told me, like, oh, yeah, I've taken up to like 20 grams of mushrooms.
So my stupid ass is like, I'm going to try that.
For the first time?
No, not the first time, but for like maybe the fifth time.
I wasn't that far in enough to do it.
And I didn't have anybody like trip sitting me, you know, and like, you know, it's just dumb.
Right.
But I had one of the most amazing experiences ever.
I felt like we were being invaded.
First of all, I thought we were in a simulation.
I would like look at the wall and I'd see a crack in the wall and go, and for some reason, I thought I had to like go talk to like Joe Rogan and Elon Musk about it.
Like, they must know.
They know about this.
I got to get to them.
They have to, you know.
And then I, like, everything around me would just crack and fall.
And, like, it was wild.
And then I eventually went, I got my blanket and my pillow.
And I walked outside to my car and I started packing things in my car because I thought that the Russians were dropping a bomb on us.
I don't know why.
It was, like, cloudy out that day and it was dark out.
And I thought, like, you know, and Joe Rogan said, oh, before you even know it, before the sky even becomes dark, you're going to be dead.
And I'm like, oh, shit.
Like, they're, you know, and this is all on a mushroom trip.
You know, this is just like, that's what happens when you're a little bit reckless.
Moscow Bomb Panic Attack00:13:23
Yeah.
It was fun, but like, you know, what did I get out of it?
Probably nothing.
Yeah.
That's why it's good to, you know, have somebody, if you're going to go that hard, like to, you know, be in a safe environment, have somebody like who knows what they're fucking doing.
Because I mean, like, no one's ever died from psychedelics.
The only thing that kills people when they're doing these kinds of drugs is like being around a large body of water and not knowing how to swim when you're fucking zonked on something.
Yeah.
And like I said, like, I went and got stuff and walked out.
It's like, you don't know, like, you did.
You know you're not paying attention, so it's like yeah, you should be paying attention.
You know I, yeah.
So I definitely don't recommend that, but i've i've walked that path and I think it's good to be honest about that.
You know yeah, totally.
Um, I gotta get Leek real quick.
Go ahead.
I made the mistake of breaking the seal before we started.
Now i'm fucked, we'll be right back.
Metallica is your favorite band.
Oh dude, I love Metallica.
I can't believe you got to hang out with him.
You know I worked.
So we we've had just a crazy storied life, uh-huh and I.
I worked at uh Woodstock uh-huh, I think it was like Woodstock, like They redid it in like 94.
I think they did it again in 99.
And so we worked as like security guards for Woodstock.
Really?
And Metallica played at Woodstock.
And like my brother's Mad Dog, his claim to fame was like, he was like, he fell asleep because he was like, we were doing security.
He fell asleep and he got blasted with like super soakers.
And he fucking woke up.
I was like, who the fuck did that?
He's all, you know, Mad Dog was huge.
He was all pissed.
And he's like looking around and he looks and it's the tour bus and it's Metallica out the windows of their bus shooting my brother with fucking super soakers.
Oh my God.
Like, oh, hey, Woodstock, 1999.
1994, I think.
Oh, 1994.
Yeah.
And they were like, look, this guy fell asleep.
The fucking blast in him.
Holy, bro.
So that was the closest we've ever got to Metallica.
Find a video of Woodstock 94.
I got to see.
I was watching a video of the 1999 one the other day, and it was totally insane the amount of people that were there.
I always used to work security for all these concerts.
Wow.
So you see where the people are sliding in the mud?
Find a photo of the crowd, like a big wide area.
See that guy in the mud?
Yeah.
The funny thing about the mud that people didn't know.
Is a lot of the mud came from people knocking over outhouses.
No.
Yeah.
So people were like sliding down the hill in the mud and it was like poop, but they didn't know it.
Fucked, bro.
Oh my God.
Is that Limp Biscuit on the top left?
Is that Fred Durst?
I think I might even still have my shirt from it.
Like I had a shirt that said Peace Patrol on the back.
Look at that, bro.
Yeah.
So we grew up in like Poughkeepsie, New York, and this was in upstate New York.
Woodstock's not very far.
That's how many people are there?
Uh, we 94, not 99.
Yeah, you have Woodstock 94, Metallica.
I think it was, um, I think I want to say it was like uh, Nine Inch Nails, Metallica, and Aerosmith, like all in a row.
It was pretty dope.
Yeah, I got to, I met Kirk not too long ago because I guess he's bizarrely a fan of this podcast, which is I don't find that to be bizarre at all.
Close my fucking mind that that guy of all people.
I find, I think he would be a huge fan of this.
He's really into you know, a lot of like the esoteric stuff and a lot of stuff like.
You know, some of like the, you know, more of the fringe podcasts that I've done.
And he was like, dude, he is.
I think he's the best guitarist in the world.
I think he's fucking beyond so many other people.
I think he never gets like the credit, really.
I'll tell you what, dude, I've never met anybody who is that emotionally connected to their craft, especially after doing it at the highest level possible for over 40 years.
And he's so like low key.
Yeah.
Like he's never causing a problem.
Right.
He's never, you know, the asshole.
Right.
No, no.
It's like there's that one scene in the movie where they, um, It's amazing.
There's a scene in, I want to say it's in the making of the Black Album.
Yeah, it's in the making of the Black Album, but I forget what the documentary is called, but maybe a day in the life of Metallica or something, day and a half in the life of Metallica.
So anyway, he gets all flustered and he gets all pissed.
And he's like, I can't do this, man.
It's not coming through.
And they're trying to record the unforgiven.
They're trying to record the solo.
And he does it a couple more times.
And he throws his guitar down.
And he's like, I'm coming back tomorrow.
And then he comes back in the next day.
And he just goes, I'm fucking, I'm so ready.
Let's just go.
And he just jams that like first take of that like solo for the unforgiven.
Wow.
And this jams it in one take and then sort of goes, okay, cool.
We're good.
And he couldn't get it like the day before.
He just couldn't, he couldn't crack it.
Right.
I never thought they made music that way.
I thought like they had it maybe written out.
I don't know what I thought.
Right.
Just seeing that process was really cool.
Yo.
What really shocked me the most about him was just like after all these years, like touring and creating all these outfits, touring across the country, being in front of, you know, stadiums. full of, you know, hundreds of thousands of people, millions of people.
The fact that even today, like I think he's in his 60s now.
Yeah.
He still has that insane creative spark where he's like connected to the muse or whatever it is, where he's like super motivated to create new shit, come up with new music.
He doesn't even care.
He's still trying to push the envelope as far as he possibly can.
He's trying to, he's thinking about, you know, doing all these other kinds of projects and he's so interested in all kinds of stuff.
When typically people at that level, you know, who have reached that insane level of success, they kind of lose that spark.
You know what I mean?
They get comfortable.
And they just kind of like settle into success and comfort.
I think Metallica, I think a lot of people have like written them off too.
If you like listen to their last album, it's amazing.
Oh my God.
It's incredible.
It really is.
I think that people have gotten, people have written them off and like, ah, I listened to the old stuff.
I'm like, no, the new stuff is really good.
Yeah.
And this, a lot of it is.
That concert I was telling you about, where there were two shows they did.
They did a show on Friday and a show on Saturday.
And I've never been to a Metallica show before that.
Oh, really?
No, never.
Yeah.
I mean, I remember getting the Black album when it first came out.
It was like one of my first CDs I ever owned.
And like going to that concert at Raymond James Stadium, there was 90,000 people there.
And it was kind of like how I was explaining to the WWE WrestleMania.
It was similar, but it was just like on another level because there was 90,000 people all shoulder to shoulder.
And the music is fucking like the heavy metal is blasting.
The pyrotechnics is going off.
There's the light show that's happening at the same time.
And everybody, it's like every atom of every human being in that entire stadium.
Is resonating at this frequency and you can fucking feel it.
And like, bro, if I was from 2000 years ago and I took a time machine to that concert, that Metallica concert, those dudes are gods.
Yeah.
Those dudes are fucking gods.
Yeah, it's wild, right?
How they just command.
And James Hetfield's so cool.
Like, we went to, I went to the most recent San Francisco orchestra thing that they did in San Francisco and where they played with the orchestra.
And it was just so well done.
You ever seen that?
I haven't seen that.
Oh, you got to see it.
Yeah.
They play with the orchestra, and it's just so well constructed.
Really?
The way that they flow with this, you know, they're playing with the whole nerdy San Francisco orchestra.
This is a couple of years ago, like maybe five years ago.
A friend of mine just got tickets to it.
It's also amazing.
They've been to stay together.
They've stayed, you know, as a solid crew for so long.
Yeah.
Like if you look at No Leaf Clover.
That's what, like, see that San Francisco Symphony SM II full concert.
That's it.
It says, When it comes to being the soothing light at the end of your tunnel is just a freight train coming your way.
That's so deep.
You know, like, you think you're going, Hey, go to the light, go to the light.
It's just a freight train coming to run you over.
So, like, you feel like I'm going towards the light.
And then, wow.
So, that's like one of my favorite lines, you know?
Yeah, man.
Yeah, Metallica's dope.
Yeah, Metallica is the fucking shit.
You know, I've been a fan of Metallica since I was a kid.
And so.
I remember going to the And Justice for All concert where they had like the giant Lady Justice and it like blows up on this, you know, it's a giant statue, like Lady Justice, and it like falls apart and like the whole stage starts coming apart and you think it's real.
Oh, really?
The stage blows up.
Like the.
What year are we talking that you're going to these shows?
Is this right after the album came out?
90.
Yeah, like I want to say even maybe.
Yeah, that was like late 80s, I thought Justice for All.
And Justice for All might have been 88.
Yeah.
So I was a kid, you know, going to that shit.
Also, my brother went to all that stuff, so he was like the one that led us into all that stuff.
You want to talk about like wrestling being a different thing in the 80s?
This Metallica and like metal and concerts was like a whole different fucking beast in the 80s, I bet.
Yeah.
And like I said, we worked all the concerts.
So, like, we were my brothers and I were always like, you know, we were always big dudes, like, compared to most other people.
And so, I'm short, but I was jacked, you know, and I was strong.
So, we always got hired to work concerts.
And so, we'd work all these concerts, and they'd be like Iron Maiden concerts, Beastie Boys, you know, I've worked like, name it, Limp Biscuit, like, Kid Rock, like, work all these concerts.
And usually, we were put in the spot where you're in between the audience and the audience.
Band.
Right.
So, like, there's usually like a little gap there.
So, you know, in case, you know, people get crushed up against the wall and you got to pull them over the wall.
Other times people are fighting, you got to pull them over the wall.
Other times people are trying to get on stage, you got to, you know, get them off stage.
But you know what's crazy?
The craziest concert I ever worked by far was in Vermont and it was a Grateful Dead concert.
And yeah, and it was supposed to be like 25,000 people outside, peaceful, you know, little Grateful Dead concert.
250,000 people showed up and just, Rushed the gates and we just basically took our jackets off and went in and hung out.
Like, I don't, I didn't know there was nothing you could have done.
No, I mean, what are you gonna do?
You're getting, you're making like, you know, 10 bucks an hour.
So you're like, I'm not fighting this whole crowd.
That at first we were running and grabbing these guys off the, you know, they're trying to climb a fence.
Yeah.
And so you run and you're like, okay, cool, I got one.
And then cool, I got one.
Yeah.
And then one of my friends climbed the fence after a guy went to grab him and ripped his like arms up, like, like just blood.
And we're, that's when we're like, hey man, it's not worth it.
Right.
What am I going to do?
These people want to get in?
Let them in.
Yeah.
I don't care.
Yeah.
Jesus, man.
So it's like when crowd control becomes impossible, you know?
Right.
Yeah.
I mean, imagine that.
Have you seen the video of the crowd that was in Moscow when they played in Moscow?
No.
Metallica.
Type in Metallica Moscow.
It is the most out of control, like insane crowd I've ever seen at a rock show.
Look at that.
Look at some of those photos, bro.
Look at that one on the bottom right.
Metallica's biggest concert in 1991, Moscow.
Look at that.
Yeah, it's the weirdest thing, too, because I think it's a very American thing.
We don't really listen to other people's music.
There's nobody that comes over here.
There's a lot of European death metal bands and heavy metal bands.
Yeah, what I'm saying, though, is we don't really listen to it like they do.
That is another level.
I don't think I've ever seen anything.
I've never seen a crowd like that.
I wonder how many people that is.
Did they say?
Yeah.
Is there an estimate on how many people were there in Moscow?
You can ask Trump, it'll be 2 million.
The Moscow Metallica show didn't mean it.
There's 3 million people there.
Metallica Moscow paled in comparison to the inauguration 1.6 million people.
The Monsters of Rock Festival.
Oh, yeah.
I remember they did Monsters of Rock in, I think, the Soviet.
Oh, yeah.
Wait, wait.
No, no, no.
What year?
91?
That was after.
The fall of the Soviet Union, right?
It was after the wall came down.
When did the wall come down?
90 or 91?
Well, they also did a concert with Guns N' Roses where there was a riot.
Remember that?
Uh uh.
Yeah, there was a Monsters of Rock.
It was in New Jersey, I believe.
Oh, really?
And Axel Rose came out and the microphones didn't sound right or something.
And he.
Oh, yeah, I remember that.
Yeah, he was just like, he just left.
And when he left, it caused like a riot.
And then Metallica, I guess, like made up for it kind of.
But, um, Yeah, they hated Guns N' Roses after that.
There was a big battle of the bands, you know?
And those were like my two favorite bands, you know?
Guns N' Roses back in the day.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Guns N' Roses.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's a, it's crazy, man.
It's crazy how, how those dudes have managed to keep it going for so long and, and still put on these crazy shows selling out arenas all across the freaking world.
Yeah.
Everybody else falls apart, you know?
Yeah, they do.
Sober Living Rehab Struggles00:15:17
And then there's, you know, like the, like the amount of fucking, like discipline it takes to keep the, your, Core group of guys together and like manage those relationships for so long for decades, you know.
Yeah, I mean, rock stars aren't like the most stable people in history, you know what I mean?
Like, to be able to do that and manage that is pretty insane.
It's interesting to see that, like I said, you said the growth, like how, yeah, you know, how far they've come, they've been through like addiction, you know.
I when I went to that concert in San Francisco, it was the last day before James Hepburn.
Field went to rehab and I felt so bad, man.
I was like, man, he I didn't know he like he played his heart out.
I'm like, I didn't know he was struggling like that.
Like, there's something about addiction with me that, like, if somebody's an addict, it's like I have such empathy for that because I've been through it, you know.
I've been to, um, and I've been through like every way of getting over it too.
You know, I've been to, um, I've been to one of the when I so I'll tell you my quick story of like when I was, um, addicted, I was an alcoholic and I was a drug addict because I had a double hip replacement surgery.
It got botched, where they messed up one side and it never really took.
But they didn't know why I was in pain for two years.
They didn't know that for two years.
They didn't know that they messed up.
For two years they just kept feeding me pills, the doctors, and so I was addicted to opioids.
But along with the opioids I was also drinking, you know, and that causes like big problems.
You know where you just wake up and you don't even know where you are, and you know just all sorts of uh, huge problems like that.
So I had to go to rehab.
I went to rehab in Malibu.
So I made a documentary about how to get sober from pills and booze.
And I relapsed on pills and booze.
And I ended up, you know, it was in the middle of making a movie.
So I had like people invested money into this movie.
I was making it.
Everybody was happy with the progress.
And then I relapsed.
And when I relapsed, I was so scared to tell the producers what happened and like, hey, man, like, listen, I kind of messed up.
And if you go back and watch my movie Prescription Thugs, it's all in there.
I basically just said, let's just put it in the movie because it shows how hard addiction is.
It shows how, like, even though I know I'm doing wrong, like, I can't stop it.
Like, it's a monster.
And, you know, I was able to basically get better.
But the way that I got better was really interesting because I went to a rehab in Malibu because I was making a movie.
I had interviewed this guy, Richard Tate.
And Richard Tate's still to this day, one of my good buddies.
He owned Cliffside Malibu.
It's like one of these hoity toity, like high end, you know, celebrity places where all these celebrities go.
Lindsey Lohan and stuff like that.
Celebrity rehab place?
Yeah, kind of like that, right?
And so it's really expensive usually, but he let me go for free because I was making a movie and he knew I was still filming it.
And he's like, let's see what happens.
You come to my rehab, I'll fix you up.
So I go to his rehab and I'm there for 11 days.
And after 11 days, he's like, hey, we have a problem.
We need more space.
And since you're not paying, I need to move you somewhere else.
And I freaked out because my brother had died in a sober living facility and they wanted to move me to a sober living facility.
So he said, Well, instead of moving you to a sober living facility, I'm going to move you into a different place that is like a, what do you call it?
Sober living, right?
So it's like a sober living where you, no, not a sober living.
It's a, sorry, I didn't want to move into the sober living.
So I ended up moving into a rehab that was like state run, like a state run rehab where people like go to jail.
You know what I mean?
Like if, if, It's either go to rehab or go to jail.
It's like one of those rehabs.
And so I went to that rehab for 22 days.
And when I was in that rehab, it was like being in some sort of boot camp.
You had to make your bed every morning.
You had to, you know, all these, the Malibu one was fluff.
And so for 11 days, I had a fluff rehab.
And then I had 22 days that felt like hell because I was just, you know.
It's probably better.
Yeah.
No, it was amazing.
It kind of like all worked out for the best because I saw the best rehab in the country.
The worst rehab in the country.
I wouldn't say the worst because they did a good job of setting me straight.
You know, I didn't want any drugs after that.
I didn't want any alcohol after that.
I just wanted to go home.
And then the last 30 days I spent in a sober living facility that's owned by Cliffside Malibu that was like right on the beach in Malibu and it's beautiful.
And it was like, you know, you couldn't really get any better than that.
And so when I walked out of rehab, like I just knew I wasn't going to go back to that again.
Like I knew that that wasn't, you know, wasn't for me.
But I got to see.
All the ways in which it worked.
And I also got to see all sorts of different addicts and like what their addiction is from.
And every single one of those addictions, they spring from some sort of pain.
You know, if somebody's in pain, whether it's mental pain, physical pain, it doesn't matter.
They're in some sort of pain and it launches this addiction.
And all they're looking for is to get love, you know, to get compassion, to get empathy.
And for some reason, they're not getting that in their life.
And they, Have these bad habits.
And so it's like, I don't know.
I've just always been so empathetic towards those people and always felt like I, you know, I can help.
I can help those people and I want to help those people.
Right.
And I've had so many people hit me up after my films and say, like, hey, man, you, you know, you saved my life.
Or they'll hit me up on Instagram and say, like, how do I get sober?
And I'll tell people, like, there's a lot of different ways to get sober.
But the one thing I think people need to remember is like, don't discount the fact that AA is out there.
AA has been around forever and AA is free.
So, if you're at the depths of depression and addiction, you can walk into an AA room and they will accept you.
They will help you.
It's not the best way.
You know, it's definitely like there's a lot of stuff that you got to believe in to.
Yeah.
Isn't there some crazy story behind AA?
Well, the AA started with LSD.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
It started with like a group of people getting together and using a little bit of LSD.
And LSD seems to really be a.
A way out for addiction, but since it's so demonized in the 60s, I want to say okay, that's when AA started.
So I think it started in like 1934.
Oh, okay.
But if you go back and read the AA, I just tell people this the best place to start is pick up the AA Big Blue.
It's a it's it's called the Big Book of AA.
It's just this big blue book, and you read through that book, and it was written in the 30s.
And when you read through that book, it'll tell you everything about why you're an addict, and you're going, How do they know this is like 1934?
It's literally like Prophesizing things because addicts have not changed since then.
And that's the one thing that remains constant is like the addict is always the same.
The behavior is always the same.
Yeah.
You can tell the behavior.
People become very manipulative.
People will get their own way.
People learn how to lie for what they need to get.
And when you're helping those people, you got to like learn how to shut those things down, you know?
And sometimes you got to be a little bit, a little bit mean, you know?
But I'm telling you, like, it's so rewarding.
To help people, you know, and that's why I make the documentaries I make and do what I do.
And I'm working on some future projects that I want to really do.
And I really think that I have a lot more in the tank to tell, you know?
Yeah.
It also makes a lot of sense the way you were explaining your Ibogaine experience, you know, how it kind of like exposes all of the deepest, darkest shit in your life, right?
It like pulls the band aids off all the scabs and it like exposes it's like a mirror where you have to really confront.
Your deepest issues from a different perspective, right?
From like outside your typical perspective, it gets you off like the normal vibration of your daily humdrum life that you get used to.
And, you know, that is a super beneficial way.
I can understand, I can see why that would be a super beneficial way to kicking some addictions.
You know what I mean?
Like, you know, there's lots of different types of therapies.
There's like Ibogaine, I know MDMA is one of them, but, you know, just from my personal experience with just like edible marijuana.
I eat a fucking marijuana gummy and I get blasted.
I end up in like the fetal position in the corner, seeing all like the worst parts of my life.
And I see like the worst case scenario in every part of my life.
And I can find the direct path to the worst case scenario.
I'm like, oh my God, this is crazy.
Like everything's caving in on me.
And, you know, at the end of it, I always come out with like some sort of revelatory aha moment, or I've taken something.
Useful out of that experience that can like help me in my everyday life.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
So, you know, I can see why something like that would be a super effective tool for kicking things like some of these addictions and opioid addictions and stuff like that.
Yeah, marijuana gummies are interesting because it's kind of the same thing with like Kratom.
Like I said, they, in Texas where I live, it's illegal.
Like THC is illegal for whatever reason, it's illegal.
So I bought these like Delta 9, you know, Uh, gummies, they just seem like any normal everyday gummy, yeah.
And I ate one and I was like out of it for three days straight.
I mean, really, yeah.
I mean, and then I looked at it and it has like I want to, I don't know how to compare Delta 9 to like whatever, but I think Delta 9 is so cheap that it says it has like 20,000 milligrams of Delta 9 in it.
And I'm like, this is insane, how is this legal?
How do they, yeah, you can't sell THC, but you can sell this, and it's so powerful.
So, like, I can't even take them anymore because I'm like, that's just way, you know, yeah, way too potent.
And yeah, I mean, they don't give you the greatest feeling.
They give you, like, you know, they'll make you happy for a little bit, but then you kind of, same thing.
You see your darkest.
Yeah, but I think that shit's beneficial.
I think, you know, I don't think it's designed to just make you feel good and happy.
It's not supposed to be an escape.
Like, I think I get the most out of like the darkest trips or the darkest experiences.
You know what I mean?
Like, you know, like one of the recent ones was just, I was, I fucking took one and it was like, Showing me, it was telling me that I need to spend more time with my kids and less time on bullshit.
Yeah.
And it's like, wow, that's great.
That's not the devil.
Yeah.
That's something that's good.
No, I think so.
Yeah.
Like, I think, well, I think that, like, there's with all drugs and all things, like, there's good and bad to them.
You know, the bad for me of that gummy is more like it just made me a zombie for three days.
And I don't, you know, it's like, and so then I've taken like half of it and it's made me a zombie for a day.
And I'm like, maybe I need to take like an eighth of it.
You know what I mean?
But it's crazy because you get this whole big bag of like 20 gummies and it's like, I'm going to take an eighth of it every day.
Yeah.
I love that there's this company called Via that's actually sponsored the show before, but they send you, they send me this, um, giant kit of all these different types of gummies that are beneficial for everything.
There's like, they have, and there's THC or CBD ones.
They have ones for sleep.
They have ones for like creativity.
They have ones for like, uh, called the love gummies that like get you, get you all horned up.
Yeah.
They get you a little bit high and horny at the same time.
Fucking phenomenal.
They all work.
Highly recommend them.
Oh my God.
They fucking work.
They're amazing.
And they're not, they're not overly potent to where you're going to like blast off to the moon, you know?
So, um, I really like those ones.
But, like, yeah, you can get some of these gummies, like the fucking Death Star, or like some of these crazy gummies you can find from, you know, underground people that will just be like, Jesus Christ, you'll be fucked.
Yeah.
I used to be into, like, you know, like I said, I used to be into that kind of stuff for a while.
And then I got to a point where, you know, like, I've been sober from alcohol and pills, like prescription painkillers for like 11 years.
So, since that movie, that movie was the last time?
Yeah.
For pain.
Yeah.
But I've done every psychedelic since then.
Well, the psychedelics are different, though.
Yeah, I look at it as different as well.
I definitely look at it as being a different thing.
They're non-addictive and they're not, you know.
And I've taken Kratom.
Some people will say, actually, even when I was in rehab, after I got out of rehab, I was supposed to go speak at an AA meeting and they didn't want me to speak because at the time I was taking Kratom.
And I had been talking about it.
I had talked about it on Joe Rogan.
And they're like, oh, you know, we don't.
And I'm like, you don't think I'm sober?
I'm like, I take kratom for pain.
Yeah.
And I think people have such a hard time deciphering the fact that like you're in physical pain.
And they don't care though.
They just go, kratom bad, you know?
Right.
And I think we need to stop putting substances in these good or bad categories.
It's crazy because they just are, you know?
Kratom is no more dangerous than caffeine.
Like when's the last, I don't know if you're a coffee drinker, but I don't remember the last time I went a day without drinking a cup of coffee.
Yeah, I just don't feel it's been maybe two days in the last five years.
I haven't drank a cup of coffee.
It's as like I had Hamilton Morrison here recently.
He was like a chemist.
Yeah, I love him.
Yeah, and he was explaining that to me.
He's like, I don't think kratom is any different than caffeine.
He's like, if you enjoy kratom and you want to have a couple cups of kratom or pills of kratom every day, it's like there's no, you know, there's no studies or scientific papers that show it's any more dangerous than caffeine.
It doesn't kill any more, it doesn't kill people.
It's just like, you know, if it's useful to you, then take it.
The difference is the stigma that's attached to it or, you know, the different types.
Of pharmaceutical companies that have been known to demonize certain drugs because it's not good for business.
Yeah, I would say that the only thing with Kratom that I just warn people about because I've been through it is it can be addictive and getting off of it.
So, can caffeine?
Yeah, and getting off of it just like is not fun.
So, I had to, you know, when I was told you I was taking, at one point I got to taking these extracts and I would take several extracts a day.
And when I was coming off of them, I was just using capsules to come off.
And so, I would take like one day I would take five capsules.
Twice a day, then I'd take three capsules twice a day, you know.
Then I think, and I would taper down, and my girlfriend helped me taper down off of it.
I told her, like, hey, this is what's going on, I'm trying to get off of this.
I was because I just wanted to like reset my body and be off everything.
I must have gone through a good five or six days that were really, really rough days.
And so I just want to tell people like, yeah, you might go through some tough days.
Get yourself some magnesium, get yourself a bunch of vitamin C.
Kratom Energy Drink Risks00:11:23
Oh, okay.
You know, and then the bigger problem with coming off of daily kratom use, I think if you're not using it daily, I don't think you're going to develop a problem.
I drink these every day.
I don't think you're going to develop a problem with those being such a low dose.
And this is an extract.
Yeah, I know White Rabbit.
They're great.
Yeah, they're fucking delicious, too.
Yeah, they taste really good.
Mitrogena speciosa extract.
Yeah, I've actually talked to that company a couple times.
I should probably do something.
I drink one of those every day, except for the weekends.
Did Mark send you some of those new brews?
Those are good, too.
The Cava, they are so good.
He did.
And he sent me the Mind Bullet gummy soup.
The gummies are good.
New brews are a little bit weird at first.
They're like, at first I was like, I don't like this.
And then after a while, I just got, I really like the taste of them and I like what they do.
Yeah, they feel good.
I notice, um, I know you can drink like more than one of these white rabbits, and it's supposed to be like, it even says on here, it says drink one of them, and it's like a lightning bolt of energy.
Drink two of them, you're on the couch.
Yeah.
I never drink two in a day.
I only drink one because it's like a mild stimulant, but it's also like calming, right?
So it's not like I'm like super jittery, like if I drink a Red Bull.
But I notice sometimes I notice myself, like if it's a Saturday and I haven't drank one in a day, I'll be like, man, I could go for a white rabbit right now.
Yeah.
But then I'm like, just because I knew that popped into my head, I should go maybe two extra days without drinking one.
And that's what I'm saying is like, if you do that, you're.
you're going to be fine.
The problem is when people, they'll take Kratom capsules, they'll drink two of those.
Yeah.
You know, and then, and then it's like piling up.
And it's like, I just want to be sure that we're not telling people to take something that can hurt them because like, if you're not taking Kratom right now, don't, don't get in.
If you don't need it, don't get into it.
But if you're in pain or you need like, even if you just want a little bit of bounce of energy, it is great.
Take it once in a while, use it once in a while, but use it like responsibly.
People, people tend to take that and say, well, you said I could use it every day.
Right.
And we didn't, you know.
Yeah.
What did the Mayo Clinic say about kratom?
Did they say something about them being dangerous?
Are you aware of that?
No.
Like recently?
Yeah, I don't know.
I heard the Mayo Clinic was saying the kratom was dangerous.
There's all sorts of things saying it's dangerous.
Like there's all sorts of people trying to ban it.
You know, it happens all the time.
But I think the reason that they are trying to ban it is because it's unsafe and ineffective.
Who's this from?
Oh, this is a Mayo Clinic website.
Yeah.
Yeah, you just can't believe that.
When you say, when it says it's ineffective.
Users swear by kratom for lifting mood and boosting energy, but there are many safety issues to question about whether kratom works.
See where at the top it says unsafe and ineffective.
Right.
It's the same thing they did with steroids.
They would say, oh, they don't work.
Right.
Oh, look, my, what does that say?
Kratom is a herbal extract that comes from the leaves, an evergreen tree called the, okay, Mitragynospeciosa.
That's what it says on the can.
So that's just like the scientific name for kratom.
So why are they saying it's unsafe?
Side effects include weight loss.
Weight loss.
Kratom is known for side effects including weight loss, dry mouth, Nausea and vomiting, constipation, liver damage, muscle pain, high blood pressure.
Okay.
So, one tenth of the pharmaceutical products they advertise on every single football game on TV.
Yeah, basically.
Yeah.
If you look at this list, occasional pregnancy.
See at the bottom, it says kratom products have been linked to a small number of deaths.
Well, when I did my movie, I went and I scoped out every single death.
There was like 44 at the time.
There was one guy.
44 kratom deaths?
Oh, no, steroid deaths.
No, this is the kratom movie.
So, my movie, A Leaf of Faith, which is about kratom.
Got it.
Which is actually available on YouTube if anybody wants to see it.
I think you can probably find it easiest on YouTube.
But in a leaf of faith, I went through and I looked, and I actually had a medical researcher that I was working with.
We went through all the deaths and we sort of vetted them all and said, like, okay, let's see.
This guy had 10 drugs in his system.
This guy, you know, and we vetted them all.
And there was one guy who was a 28 year old police officer from New York State who died officially from ingesting kratom.
But you know why?
He was dry scooping it and he choked on it and died.
That's what he died from.
And so it's like when you look at that and you go, well, okay, that's a kratom death.
It counts.
But that's like somebody falling down the stairs and dying and saying that your house killed them.
Right.
Yeah.
Holy shit.
I had one guy on this podcast once.
Remember?
I forget the dude's name.
He was dry scooping kratom right before we started the show.
He was not only that.
He had, I think he had capsules.
He had a kratom drink, like his own custom kratom drink that he mixed together himself.
And right before we hit record, he's like, hold on.
Dry scoop, two giant scoops of kratom.
I'm like, holy shit.
Don't we don't need to cut that out?
We don't know, is nobody we don't want to sell him out, but let's uh, he was.
I just want to see it, yeah.
No, he did it right before we started.
Okay, um, but yeah, like that's a lot, bro.
I would be, I don't know what would happen.
Well, God bless that guy because the kratom is uh, what they call hydrophobic, so you, you know, you can't mix it in water.
It's like cinnamon when you try to mix cinnamon in your Starbucks.
You ever notice like it won't mix?
Things are either fat soluble or they're water soluble.
It was tea he was drinking or something, but he had some sort of kratom drink.
You can mix it up enough to make it kind of mix in, but it's always sludgy.
It's always gross.
Right.
There are a couple companies, like I have a friend that has a company called Happy Hippo.
I don't know how well it works, but they've made some micronized kratom that you can dissolve.
They also make kratom, what do you call it?
Like pouches.
Yeah, they make kratom pouches that are pretty good, but I think if they were a little stronger, they'd be better.
But it's just another cool idea.
You know, it's like put a little kratom in a pouch and, you know.
But yeah, I think that.
The delivery methods definitely for Kratom need to be improved because Kratom itself is just like it's hard to take.
That's why you know people take it in capsules because it's it doesn't mix in water, right?
Yeah, I just love the energy drinks, man.
It just tastes delicious.
Yeah, you got to do a lot to get to that, you know, to get to that point to make it taste delicious.
Yeah, they did a really good job though.
They did a phenomenal job, dude.
Because before I had a white rabbit, I had never had Kratom, yeah, like that was my first Kratom ever, was that thing.
And I was just like, I remember I was doing a, I literally had it right before a podcast.
And I was like, what is happening to me?
Why do I feel so fucking like calm but like focused right now?
This is crazy.
So I made an energy drink actually.
I made a Kratom energy drink that I was selling for like a little while.
And it just kind of, there's a lot to that business.
It's really difficult to get in that business and then scale it up.
So we made a drink called Full Boar.
That's a great drink.
They actually sell it here in Florida still, I think.
But a friend of mine owns the company and he saw, you know, I was basically like, Just a small part of it.
But yeah, there's a lot to make that happen.
There's a lot that goes into it.
Really?
Yeah.
Yeah.
There's so many different Kratom products, man.
It's crazy.
Especially when you're getting into all the different types of pills and stuff they sell at the gas stations.
It's a minefield if you want to navigate it and figure it out.
Yeah.
And that's the one thing.
When I made the film A Leaf of Faith, I said, Hey, I'm not going to sell Kratom.
I don't care about it.
And looking back at it, I probably should have.
Because it could have made a fortune off of doing it.
But I think things work out for a reason.
I think, like, I don't think it's good to be a proponent or advocate of something and be so heavily involved in it.
I agree.
You know, so it's like I'm trying to, and I'm also trying to, like, be honest is like when I made that movie, we didn't have any research on addiction for Kratom.
Like, I went on Reddit and I would look up all these people that say they were addicted to Kratom and I'd contact each one of them.
And I couldn't get one person to talk to me about addiction.
Now I think it's a different story.
So I think it warrants, like, doing some sort of update because like, nowadays there's so many people saying that they're addictive, there's got to be people that'll talk and I want to get their stories.
I want to know, like what you know what the deal is, what's going on?
Is it addictive, is it not addictive, is it good, is it bad?
Like let's, let's talk it out, you know?
Yeah well, I mean it's like I think this was stated on your on the bigger stronger, faster documentary.
But like, drugs aren't good or bad right, they just are.
There's a, there's a risk and a reward.
All drugs are is a risk reward measurement.
Some have more risk.
Others have a higher reward with less risk.
It's just, it's all about, you know, what's best for you and your body and like what helps you get through the day better without risking too much or falling down the fucking slippery slope.
When you look at it, like in our country, it's, you know, praise to be skinny.
So like Ozempic is this gigantic drug.
Manjaro.
Oh, God.
That's so crazy.
Is a monster drug.
And isn't it funny how you can fucking tell who's on Ozempic?
You can just like see them.
You're like, oh, that's Ozempic.
The trade off is because they look like, A melted candle.
They look like a melted candle.
Yeah.
The trade off is that you don't enjoy anything anymore, you know?
So, while like, so micro, so I actually think the GLP 1 drugs are great, but I think they're great, and so does Mark too.
We've talked about this a lot.
We think they're great in micro doses.
I think the doses that people use to go from being fat to being skinny, it's just, it's like, it's too much and it's too much of a change, and there's not enough of yourself in it.
But if you use it in smaller doses, like one milligram a week, say, and you instead of 2.4, right, you use like half the dose, even less, even like a quarter of the dose.
When you use it in smaller doses, I feel like you have to put in some work also.
And I feel like it's just, you don't get any of the side effects.
You know what I mean?
There's better.
I think as we learn more about these GLP 1 drugs, we'll see people microdosing them more often than using them in the full sense.
And they're way cheaper that way too.
Yeah.
It's just crazy to see drugs like this like come on the scene and just explode and change everything.
And if you look at it, they, you know, big pharma charges like $1,600 a month to for, you know, something like Ozempic or Manjaro.
Is that really what it costs?
It's, it's anywhere between like $900 and $1,600 a month.
And the compounding pharmacy, like Empower Pharmacy, for example, you can get that for like a hundred bucks a month.
So it's like you got to go to a doctor and tell your doctor, like instead of ask your doctor if this drug's right for you.
Ask your doctor if they can use a compounding pharmacy because almost any drug that's approved by the FDA can be compounded.
Like they can make anything.
So if you want your drugs cheaper and you're more knowledgeable, I used to be so against pharmaceuticals.
Like I made a movie called Prescription Thugs.
But as I understand pharmaceuticals more and understand how they can be used for good when they're used moderately and for the right things, like I don't think anybody, like when I just came here in the Uber, I had a guy tell me his mother was on 37 medications.
Keto Diet Health Issues00:15:35
Before she died, I don't think that's cool.
I don't think that's the way to use medicine.
But when you use medicine in the right way, like if somebody microdosed a GLP-1 drug to lose 50 or 60 pounds, and that's going to really improve their health, I think it's worth it, right?
So like you said, what's the risk and the reward?
Yeah.
You know, I also learned that recently that UV light kills cholesterol or lowers your cholesterol.
Really?
Yeah, like the more exposure your skin has to UV light, like during the day, like UVB light, I think specifically.
It actually legitimately lowers cholesterol.
I mean, I haven't seen that.
Did you learn that from Jack Cruz?
Yeah, I did.
Yeah.
Yeah, he's incredible, huh?
Yeah, he's something.
Yeah.
He's definitely a super, super sharp dude.
He's a little abrasive, seems.
A little bit.
Well, he's from New York.
Yeah.
So I think it comes to the territory.
And I think also there's something to do with being a, I think something comes with people who are high level surgeons that are like doing crazy brain surgery or heart surgery on people where your whole entire career, you are.
At you are like the boss in the operating room, and all these people are answering to you, taking orders from you, and this is a life or death situation.
I think there's a psychological thing that happens to people where it's just like you have to be abrasive and there's like no room for bullshit or like trying to be nice, you know?
Yeah, when he was pushing Callie Means on like the vaccine stuff, yeah, it was just like hard to watch.
It was like, oh man, he's like, it was hard to watch.
He wasn't like, he was like, you know, you were here.
Yeah, I was here.
It was, it was rough.
It was rough, you know?
I think, and I think also, you know what though, you changed my mind.
A lot on what it means to be in charge of something that big for this country.
And when I thought about it, like I think Callie means, I think he means well, no pun intended.
I think his, you know, his sister has a lot of great, I think they both have a lot of great things to say.
But when you think about like they're the highest, like now his sister is like the highest person in the land.
Yeah.
What is she at the head of now?
She's never treated a patient really.
Right.
I mean, I guess she has in her, like in the residency, but like she never even made it through that.
And it's like maybe we should have somebody that's a little bit more.
Yeah.
Yeah, politics is a fucking dirty game, man.
That's the problem with it.
And, you know, I understand Jack's perspective.
But then do you want Jack Cruz in charge of that?
I understand.
Like, I understand he doesn't want to be a part of it.
That's why I moved to El Salvador.
You know, I mean, that's the dichotomy there is you have, like, I understand Jack's perspective is he cares about patience, right?
Like, his number one priority is his patience and people.
But, like, that's not how fucking Hollywood, same thing.
That's not how fucking Washington works, right?
Yeah.
Politics, like, You kind of to get done, you got to play the politics game.
Unfortunately, that's how it is, you know.
And I think all these people going crazy about seed oils.
I'll tell you right now, seed oils are not the problem with America, right?
They're not even a problem, right?
Like, to make it a problem is stupid.
And so, all these people are like, Seed oils, ah, seed oils.
It's like that's not what's killing America, right?
Food dies, okay?
Let's get rid of all the seed oils.
People are still gonna be fat.
I just saw, I just saw this thing on Instagram the other day how like RFK met with the CEO of Starbucks.
To like get rid of dyes in the drinks and get rid of like the high fructose stuff, and it's like, come on, man, is Starbucks really the fucking bane of all the health problems in the United States?
Yeah, I think there are ways to make things healthier and there are ways to make things better.
And like that, again, it goes to like education, you know, educating people on certain things, like educating people that red meat isn't so bad for you, and educating people on you know different diets and different ways of eating.
Um, you know, it's just, I think that we need more education in those areas rather than.
You know, just trying to ban things.
Like, banning things doesn't make anything better usually.
Right.
And then, like, then there's like, what's the right way to educate somebody on this stuff?
You know, like there was a Stanford surgeon.
I forget what kind of surgeon.
I think he was maybe a heart surgeon.
And this came from, this guy's like really good friends with Andrew Huberman.
And I think this was on the podcast with Andrew Huberman.
Or no, I'm sorry.
This was on a podcast with Jack RFK Jr. and Rick Rubin, where he was saying that this dude said that this high level heart surgeon from Stanford, I believe, I might be getting that wrong.
He might not be from Stanford.
But, anyways, he said that.
Out of all of the medical literature and medical textbooks that are available today in all the universities, he said that more than 50% of it is wrong or outdated.
I've heard from new research that's come out and proved that it's not correct.
I've heard.
Which is crazy.
John Ioannidis, who is from Stanford, he's a professor from Stanford.
And he basically says if it was up to me, I would take all of the nutritional research that has been done.
In this country, and I would throw it in the garbage.
Yeah.
Because he's like, that's how much value it has.
You know, I think that might be a little bit overboard.
I think we do know certain things.
But like at the same time, like even if you look at what my brother Mark is doing, he's telling people like, hey, man, maybe it's okay to eat sugar.
Oh, the sugar diet in the form of fruit.
Did you guys discuss that?
We didn't.
I don't think we talked about that when he was in here, but I just saw that.
I saw my friend Nick Norwitz from Harvard.
Yeah.
Yeah, he's awesome.
He made a video about it and he was like, it's not as bad as people think it is.
He's like, well, I recently, I just went through some, you know, just some health issues with pain again.
And because I was going through all this pain, I wasn't lifting.
I wasn't really eating great.
I wasn't eating bad.
I was still doing like a carnivore diet, but I would just eat way too many calories.
And so my weight got up to about 234 pounds.
And normally I weigh about 190.
Today, I think I weighed 204, 203, something like that.
But the way I lost all that weight was fruit and fruit smoothies every day.
Like, just, yeah, just with sugar.
And so, I went on Mark's podcast and talked about it, and everybody hates you for it.
Like, you're like, listen, don't hate me.
I'm just delivering a message.
Eventually, I'm going to start losing muscle, but I'm also on testosterone.
I'm also lifting, you know?
So it's like, I just wanted to drop a bunch of weight fast.
So I basically did that every day.
And then, three or four times a week at night, I would have a meal of maybe like rice and chicken.
And that was it.
And so it was like, and I would actually drink three or four fruit smoothies in a day.
I'd make them myself at home.
I just buy a bunch of different juices and a bunch of frozen fruit and I blend them up.
Cool.
Drink a smoothie down, go about my day.
I don't know enough about it like Mark does.
Mark's like the sort of expert on it.
The idea behind the sugar diet is it's supposed to be dropping weight when you're doing it, right?
So you're doing, you're basically like, Fasting, but you're getting glucose in, so you're not really fasting.
And, um, I don't know, I don't even really could tell you like, uh, exactly like how and why it works, but what you're doing is like your body can't store carbohydrates, it's really hard for your body to store carbohydrates as fat.
So, although, and Mark and I have been guilty of this, we even launched a war on carbs a long time ago.
We would always tell people, don't eat carbs, you know, you don't need carbs.
And, um, And I still don't think that you need them, but this way works, also, is what I'm saying.
Yeah.
You know, so the way basically, I think the way that it works is you're still just lowering your calories.
Like if you're just eating fruit and fruit smoothies, it's like, doesn't have that many, doesn't have that much calories in it.
Right.
I'm not dumping sugar in there or anything else.
Yeah.
I mean, I just started last week.
I just decided that I'm going to go back to like hardcore low carb diet, like almost keto.
And it is just the thing about it is it's so hard.
It's so difficult, especially when you have three fucking kids.
And your wife doesn't give a shit about any diet you're doing.
She just likes, there's stuff everywhere.
There's pasta here.
There's chips over here.
There's like peanut butter and jellies laying around my house.
And it's like, you know, I helped like, I helped like Sean Baker sort of spearhead the carnivore movement in the beginning.
You know, like I, what happened was like, so I saw Sean Baker on Joe Rogan's podcast.
And I had also done these diets where you just eat meat like back in 1992.
I did it like when I was at USC film school.
I was also powerlifting and competing in powerlifting.
And I met some other powerlifters that told me I was too fat and I needed to lose weight.
And I said, Well, I don't know how.
And the guy just said, Eat red meat, drink water.
Okay.
For how long?
He's like, Till you're not fat.
So I did it.
And I went from maybe 242 down to like 198.
And I would lift at 198.
So I'd lost like 40 something pounds doing this.
So I knew that it was effective, but I didn't really know it had any health benefits until I saw Dr. Sean Baker on Joe Rogan's podcast.
I said, like, this guy's really on to something.
I used to do that a long time ago, but I stopped doing it, blah, blah, blah.
So I did the carnivore diet for the past, like, seven years.
And I've gone off of it here and there.
I'd go, like, off and on and try different things.
But I think a carnivore diet is a great base.
But what I've, what I learned shortly after being on the carnivore diet for, I think I was on the carnivore diet for two or three months.
And then Mark and I went on Joe Rogan's podcast and we talked about eating a diet of meat and fruit.
And I don't know if it went over everybody's head or whatever, but like basically, you know, we've had people like Dr. Paul Saladino come to our gym and he was having some problems with his hormones.
And so Mark and I told him to eat fruit, like, hey, try to eat fruit.
He was totally against it, but now he's all for it because he went and researched it.
And I think that kind of is the best diet a diet of like meat, fruit, and vegetables.
You really can't go wrong.
I don't think you need to cut out all your carbohydrates.
But you need to find better carbohydrates.
Better carbohydrates.
Get them from your fruits and vegetables.
I think they're in your fruits and vegetables, yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, that's the problem.
You might have to cut some starches.
Starches tend to hold weight on people.
Is Paul Saladino the dude who made the video about how he goes on when he travels?
He brings a backpack full of coconuts with him?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, he's made all sorts of crazy, you know.
Like, how are you cracking the coconut on the plane?
Do you have a knife?
Are you allowed to bring a fucking giant machete with you on the plane and cut those coconuts in half?
Like, what are you doing?
Yeah, I'm not really sure.
Seems a little unreasonable.
Paul's a good dude.
He's a guy that was sort of at the head of the carnivore movement.
He even wrote a book called The Carnivore Code and then completely changed his mind and added a bunch of fruit to the diet.
But see, I understand that.
I think that's the way people should evolve.
But I also really credit Dr. Sean Baker for sticking to his guns.
So the carnivore diet is fucking awesome.
It works, it's effective.
You can tell the difference the way you feel, your energy, your mental clarity.
Yeah, that's.
The thing it's just, it requires so much fucking discipline, it's crazy.
You gotta, if you have a family, and like I've, I live with my girlfriend, and like she doesn't want to eat meat every night, and she doesn't have to, she's in great shape.
Yeah, like what am I going to tell her to eat me?
Like, hey, it takes a lot, man.
She doesn't need to get in better shape, so it's like, what am I going to tell her?
So it's like, I don't know.
I think if it works for you and you're single and you can just do it, I think it's great.
But I also don't think you need to do it.
Even Dom D'Agostino, when he was in here, he was like, Yeah, he's like, me and my wife will be driving and she'll go to McDonald's for lunch and she'll eat McDonald's and I'll just, you know, I'll bring my can of sardines and I'll throw my sardines on some lettuce on a salad and I'll just have my sardines while she eats her Big Mac.
Yeah, well, Dom's insane.
Oh my God.
That's what you realize in this world there's a couple people that are just insane and they'll do whatever it takes.
Yeah.
He's a beast, man.
He's awesome.
He's a great, great human being.
The research that, and again, like, dude, I've gone into like deep ketosis where I've been in ketosis for like three months straight.
And I felt phenomenal doing that.
But it's just hard.
It's hard to stay there, you know?
Yeah.
Did you measure it with like the thing you blow into?
Yeah, I used to do the prick my finger all the time.
So Dom D'Agostino was when I, okay, so in 2016, I was pretty fat and out of shape.
Basically, through like because of coming out of rehab and all the addiction and everything.
And I was coming out of uh, I basically it was the day that Trump got elected the first time, 2016.
I was actually walking to go vote, and when I was walking to go vote, I had to stop and like I couldn't breathe.
I felt like I was like maybe having a heart attack or something.
Like, man, I'm really out of shape, like, something's wrong here.
And so, I don't know what happened.
I basically sat down for 10 minutes, I got up, I felt fine.
You know, after that, and I went home and I'm like, I really need to make a change.
And the first thing I could think of is like, I need to go back to like keto, like back when I used to do this meat diet, you know, and I need to go back to keto.
So I went back and I started reading some keto information.
I found Dom D'Agostino's information and I called him because, like, you know, I make films, so it's like kind of easy to pick up the phone, call somebody, and he's like, Of course, I've seen your movie.
I love it.
You know, like, let's talk, you know, whatever.
So me and Dom started talking.
And I was like, can you be in ketosis for more than a week?
And he laughs at me and says, I've been in ketosis for seven years.
And he basically tells me that.
And I'm like, oh, this is interesting.
So then I took off on the keto thing.
So people think that I jump from thing to thing to thing, but I kind of do because I'm kind of learning each time.
Right.
So I don't know.
People in the comments will be like, this guy jumps to this, to this, to this.
It's like, well, you're trying to learn how to utilize things.
And I think, to be honest, Even going back to like the sugar diet, what the sugar diet has taught me is like, hey, don't eat, you don't need so much fat.
Like, I've been eating literally zero fat every day, zero.
And I'm plowing through it and it's, and I feel fine.
So, when I go back to a regular diet, which will probably be in another couple of weeks, my diet will be much lower fat, which will allow me to burn more fat, you like basically use more body fat instead of burning the fat that I eat, you know?
So, I'm, I don't know, I think like each, Each stop you make along the way, you learn something.
Like, I learned something with keto.
When I did keto, I did that to a point where I did it to the max.
I was testing my blood every day and I got skinny fat.
So I did keto and then I went carnivore.
And when I went carnivore, I started lifting a little bit harder.
I felt a little bit better.
And then I started getting really muscular and jacked.
And the best shape I was ever in in my life was probably 2018 to 2020, doing just eating red meat.
Autophagy Digestive Resetting00:04:55
Right.
My problem with the keto was the last time I went super keto, I got my blood work done after, and my cholesterol was like through the charts.
It was like in like 250 or something crazy.
And my primary care doctor was like, You need to stop what you're doing.
You need to go on statins.
You need to freaking get the x ray on your coronary arteries, make sure you don't have any plaque and all this stuff.
And I'm like, I called Dom, I texted Dom, I sent Dom my blood work.
I'm like, Dude, am I going to die?
He's like, No, my cholesterol is the same.
And that's the thing is like, I have read, because I always just try to find the truth.
I try to drill down into the truth.
And I have tried everything to find like, what is it with cholesterol?
Do we need to worry about it or do we not need to worry about it?
And I still can't figure out.
I think whether or not we need to worry about it.
You know, I look at guys like Lane Norton, he's a good friend of mine.
He lives right here in Tampa.
And I, he, do you know him?
I know who he is.
Yeah.
Lane, a lot of people hate Lane Norton because he's kind of a dick to people, but I like that.
Yeah.
Because he's so, he's so blunt and he's so honest.
Yeah.
And, but Mark and I have known Lane for years and he's been a great source of information to me.
He'll tell you, hey, man, your cholesterol matters.
There's a linear line between like people dying and their cholesterolesterol being high.
Yeah.
And then you'll, Talk to other people to say, Don't worry about it.
It doesn't matter.
You're a carnivore.
You're what they call a lean mass hyper responder.
That's what I am.
That's what you'll hear like Nick Norwitz talk about, right?
But I also never heard Nick Norwitz say, Don't worry at all about your cholesterol.
Right.
You know what I mean?
So I'm like, There's somewhere in between.
It's always the truth, it's always in the middle.
Yeah.
It's in the middle somewhere.
You should kind of worry about it.
The problem is that, especially the problem with the internet, is that you'll just find people that like to cling on to certain ideas and they treat it as like it's their religion.
And it's easy to say, Go over here, eat just fruit and fruit juice and do that, or go eat just meat, do that.
The nuance is hard and the nuance doesn't sell.
The fact of the matter is the sugar diet's not the best.
The carnivore diet's not the best.
The keto diet's not the best.
To utilize each one of these things as tools in your toolbox.
And when you can understand each diet and how to utilize it, I think that's what's really important.
And if you, I mean, look, you could do sugar fasting one day, which they call it sugar fasting.
You could do that one day just to get your calories down for the week.
You know, where instead of like, look at it this way you're doing a fast, but instead of a fast, you're drinking three smoothies a day.
I can do that.
That's easy.
But what's fasting?
Fasting sucks, but sugar fasting doesn't suck.
So let's do something that doesn't suck and can get, you know, pretty much the same result.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
And it's good to experiment with shit too.
Like even just like straight up water fasts.
Have you done like a long term fast with no food?
I've done those.
And then in talking to Mark, he's like, I don't think I'll ever do those again.
It doesn't seem to make sense.
He's like, I think you get the same, you know, you might not get the same health benefits.
You know, people always want to talk about autophagy.
Well, you get autophagy when you lift weights.
You know, you get autophagy when you exercise.
What does autophagy mean?
It means that your old cells die.
Oh, yeah.
Your old cells die and you're regenerating new cells.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so that's all it really means.
And like that happens when you lift.
It happens when you exercise, you know, do cardio.
So why worry so much about this autophagy that's, You know, comes about through not eating because, like, not eating sucks.
So, but I do believe also in if you want to lose weight, you got to be hungry a little bit.
You can't be, you can't have a full belly all the time and still lose weight or get ripped.
Right.
It's not going to happen.
Yeah.
You got to live to eat.
You got to eat to live.
I did a, I did a seven day fast once and I think it was, I forget what I was, I was drinking this like water concoction that was like, it was like, it was like lemonade mixed with syrup in there, maple syrup.
Yeah.
And cayenne pepper?
And cayenne pepper, yeah.
I guess it's like the Beyonce.
I don't know what it was.
It wasn't labeled the Beyonce thing, but I guess Beyonce has like a diet where she does that same thing.
I forget what that's called, but it's some sort of fast.
Yeah, I learned about it from Kelly Slater on Rogan's podcast.
Kelly Slater was telling him all about how he did this and it got rid of this stuff called mucoid plaque that builds up in your intestines.
And he's like, after seven days, you'll start shitting out this black stuff.
Well, I guess after.
And you're like, I really want to do that.
Yeah, I was like, yeah.
I was like, because the way he was explaining it was that over your lifespan, when you eat, you're constantly eating shit all the time or whatever it is, whatever you're eating, your intestines build up this layer or this liner of plaque.
To where now you can't absorb all the nutrients from all of your food as much anymore.
So he's like, when you do this seven day fast with this lemonade syrup stuff, eventually that plaque will like strip its way out of your intestine.
It's like resetting your digestive system.
HGH Stacks and Fake Hips00:08:30
And that's the reason I did it.
That's the reason I tried it.
And on day five, I remember I stopped, I started the fast on Monday.
And on Friday, I was able to go to the gym and do like three times as many pull ups as I could normally do with like no fucking fatigue.
I did like 50 pull ups and I felt great.
And I also was able to play full court basketball, a full game of full court basketball with like no cramps, no side.
I mean, typically, you know, I'll start like getting the side cramp when I'm doing that and I'll start to get really fatigued to have to like stop and take a breather.
That none of that was happening to me.
I felt like superhuman on day five of that fast.
I felt like phenomenal.
Yeah, I've had experiences like that on carnivore where like the strongest I've ever been in my entire life was like recently in my 50s on a carnivore diet, which is insane.
And like people are like, well, how do you deadlift?
So, you know, I was doing, um, I was doing like trap bar deadlifts.
Like I'm just good at them for whatever reason.
I'm not good at regular deadlifts.
Trap bar deadlifts.
The hex bar?
Yeah, I go up to like 700 pounds.
I like the hex bar the best.
And I go up to like 700 pounds on that.
Jesus Christ.
But here's the thing is, I would do it with no carbs and people would be like, how are you doing that with no carbs?
I'm like, I just don't think it takes carbs to do like a one rep, you know, max.
Or I do like sets of three or something like that.
And so it's like, You know, I don't know.
It's, it's, I think Mark and I, I think genetics, I was talking about that before.
Genetics plays the biggest role in anything.
I watched my younger brother, Mark, bench press 315 pounds in ninth grade.
You know, he wasn't on steroids.
Like, he's 14, 15 years old when he's doing this.
You know, so when, when I tell people, like, hey, man, you have to have genetics, I wouldn't be good at squat.
You know, I have two fake hips.
And when I, With two fake hips, I don't do it anymore just because the pain got so bad.
And it's probably not a great idea to be putting 500, 600 pounds on my back.
But I would be squatting with like, working out with like 500 pounds with fake hips.
Right.
So, like, that's fucking insane.
That shouldn't happen.
But that's genetics.
That's something genetic in my code where I'm short and squatty and I can get under the bar and I can do that.
And other people will never do that.
But I'll never ride a surfboard.
You know, like, and seriously, like, I'm not built for that.
And I think that.
Uh, that's another thing people need to realize in like building their physique or doing whatever they want to do is like go to your strength, go to like what you're good at, and utilize that.
Like, nobody cares how much you deadlift or squat, really.
It's again, it's only right, only a dude will care, yeah.
Like, no girl ever cares.
So, it's like, don't worry about that stuff, worry about like what are your strengths and play to your strengths, you know?
Yeah, totally.
And you know, being able to be have that movement too.
Like, the most jacked dudes they walk around like.
You know, like that, uh, that kangaroo.
Have you seen the jacked kangaroo videos?
Yeah.
Like the, like you look like the fucking kangaroo where you have like no movement.
You see the dudes that can't turn their neck.
Yeah.
My brother and I went to visit, uh, Liver King and, um, we went down to his ranch and hung out with him.
He's great.
He's cool.
I don't agree with what he did, but basically, like.
What lying about not doing steroids?
Yeah, yeah.
We thought it was stupid even at the time.
For some reason, I think Joe Rogan thought we believed him, but we were just kind of like, I wasn't even involved in the interview.
We were just kind of going, you know, it's like when somebody tells you, like, yeah, I don't take steroids, what are you going to do?
Tell them, like, yeah, you do.
Like, I'll improve it, you know?
So, Mark asked him all the questions.
You never took SARMS, you never took, you know, SARMS.
HGH was this before he came out and did it, yeah.
And he was Mark was one of the first people to interview him.
I think Logan Paul might have interviewed him first, and then like Mark and I did.
Um, oh, the point of it was when we went to see the Liver King, um, Mark realized right away like this guy didn't have good movement, like he's all like he looks great, but he can't move, you know, yeah.
And um, I don't know, I think like that's important to look at, you know, like Liver King looks amazing, he's all jacked, it's like, but if he can't move.
What's the purpose of it.
You know, and he was on a whole laundry list of stuff, like Winstroll Hgh he was.
I think he was spending like 25 000 a month on all the he was taking.
Well, a lot of it was stupid, because I think hgh, human growth hormone, I don't think is very effective for muscle building at all.
You know, I don't think it's really effective for uh, maybe it's going to help your joints and things like that.
But it seems like to me.
I'll give you an example, like I work at this uh, compounding pharmacy and I talk to some of the, the higher ups there and they basically just say like yeah, it's kind of a waste of money, You know, like, and they have plenty of money to be able to do it, but they don't, they're not doing it because it's like, ah, it's not even, not really worth it.
And when you see people that have access to it, can get it real cheap, you know, still not using it, you're like, it's probably not worth it.
So that's, that's where.
Don't a lot of like NFL players and NBA players use HGH or growth, human growth hormone?
Like, my brother, I don't know where he got it from, but he gave me a ton of growth hormone.
And like, I haven't used it either, and I have, it's free.
But I haven't used it because I don't think it's going to do anything.
Have you ever used it?
I've tried it.
Yeah, I did it for like a couple weeks.
And I think it can mess up your insulin resistance, like your insulin sensitivity.
So I don't know.
Maybe in a giant stack with insulin and everything else, it would be worth it.
Maybe you might talk to a bodybuilding coach or something.
But like a bodybuilding coach, you got to remember, is not a health coach.
Right.
So I'm trying to be healthy.
I'm not trying to be like as jacked as I can.
Right.
Yeah, you want to live long, right?
You got to balance living optimally and feeling your best and performing your best, but also you don't want to die early.
That's never good.
No, and people need to realize.
So if you look at my brother Mark, he's probably about 5% body fat right now.
He's in crazy shape.
That looks great.
It's great to be ripped on Instagram, but a healthy human being is about 12% body fat.
And I think that's what men need to realize 12% is the goal.
It's not 5%.
It's 12%.
And if you can get to 12%, most people are going to be above that.
But if you can get to 12%, that's right where you want to be.
And that's the preferred, if you're a single guy out there, that's what women prefer.
They prefer 12% over any other body fat, they say.
What specifically does EPO do?
It basically gives your blood more oxygen.
So you can go.
So, like, if you can go.
So it's endurance.
Yeah.
There's a SARM out there.
It's not necessarily a SARM, but it's in the group of SARMs.
It's a GW501, something like that.
It's called Cartarine.
If you look up Cartarine, C A R D A R I N E, Cartarine is a, I don't want to call it a SARM because it's not officially a SARM, but it's sort of in that group.
It's something you could take that will really, really enhance your output on cardio.
So, like if you're having a hard time with your cardio, you were doing jujitsu or you were surfing or whatever, and you have a hard time with cardio, Cartarine can really, really help.
The problem, I guess, is if you look at videos from like Derek from More Plates, More Dates, he sort of shows how, In these studies where it caused cancer in rats.
But then you look at the studies, and the studies are like, well, they did feed a lot of this to the rat.
It's like no human would ever take that amount, that kind of thing.
So it's something that's like, again, I'm not recommending anything.
I'm just saying that shit works.
It works really, really well.
I would imagine it's banned from competition because it is very effective.
Um, the one thing I think maybe Mark talked about this on your podcast as well is like it's hard for me to believe that kratom is not banned from the Olympics, it's not banned from any major sports entity at all.
It is so performance enhancing, like really kratom is.
Enhanced Games Performance Debate00:04:12
Oh my god, yeah, yeah.
I take kratom, like I would load up on kratom before I go work out, and my lifts would be through the roof because it just gives me energy, it gave me, um, it took away all the pain.
So, like, when you're, you know, if you're, um, If you're playing football and every play you got to get down in three point stance and it hurts to get in a three point stance, well, imagine if I take that pain away.
It's going to be easy.
You're going to feel so it might have consequences later.
You might lift too heavy, you know, you might whatever.
But like to me, it is the performance enhancing drug that is just so underrated and underutilized.
Yeah, it's crazy.
It is insane how like we want to come up with these rules to ban these performance enhancing drugs for things like these entertaining sports, like for a guy to hit a ball with a stick.
Or, you know, to play football.
Like, what are you doing?
Like, why are you trying to do that?
If it's going to make these people healthy and it's going to make your fucking, it's going to make this sport and this business that at the end of the day, all that matters to them is their advertising dollars.
Like, what are you trying to do here?
Well, pretty soon we'll have the enhanced games.
And yeah, I don't know.
Oh, I heard about this.
Yeah, it's interesting.
So I've actually been helping the enhanced games because I always have the inside scoop on, you know, different performance enhancing drugs and like who knows what and who does what.
And so, I got a couple phone calls from people that work for the Enhance game saying, Hey, we'd like, you know, can we pick your brain?
Um, who's this guy in your movie?
Who's that guy in your movie?
So I told them all that, but I'm like, You know what?
You want an expert?
You need to talk to Vigorous Steve.
If people online or anybody watching this wants to know about steroids, you have to look up Vigorous Steve.
He knows Vigorous Steve.
Oh, yeah, he'd be great on your podcast too.
He knows so much about performance enhancement.
It's incredible.
And, um, He's from Canada.
He's a very fast talker.
Yeah, he's jacked.
He's just awesome.
He just knows everything.
So, like, how old is he?
He's probably 40.
Oh, wow.
You know, so I basically said to the Enhanced Games, like, you don't want to talk to me.
You want to talk to him.
Right.
And then there's a couple other people I've sent over to them too.
Like, Patrick Arnold is a friend of mine.
Oh, really?
And Patrick Arnold's the guy that designed drugs.
I'm like, he designed drugs.
Arnold's son?
No, no.
Patrick Arnold.
Oh, Yes, yes.
Arnold's son is Patrick.
Arnold's son is Patrick Schwarzenegger.
Yeah.
Sorry, my brain.
So, Patrick Arnold is the guy who created the cream and the clear for Balco.
I remember I talked to him on the phone once.
Yeah, he made the drugs.
Dom.
He helped Dom, I think.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, he helped Dom with the ketones.
Yes.
Yes.
Yeah, Patrick Arnold's great.
So it's like, I sent him, I'm like, hey, enhanced games, like, if you really want to do this right, you need to talk to these top people in the performance enhancing drug field.
There's another guy named Alex Keichel, K-I-K-E-L.
He's just a bodybuilding coach.
He knows everything about every peptide, like any substance you could possibly put in your body.
He knows what it does and why, you know, why people would use it.
And so when you get into these enhanced games, My gripe with the enhanced games is like, oh, you can take anything a doctor can give you.
And I'm like, well, it needs to be different than that because, like, what about trend balone?
You know, what about these drugs that people are going to use to enhance their performance that aren't, you know, aren't doctor certified?
You know, like, I don't know.
In my opinion, if you're going to do the enhanced games and you're going to half ass it by having everybody be safe, then it's like, it's not, is it really the enhanced games?
You know, like, we want to see.
Like the all drug Olympics and Saturday Night Live, where the guy rips his arms off, that's in big trouble.
I remember that.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, we don't want to see that necessarily, but if you're going to have the enhanced games, it should be, we should know, like, hey, man, these guys were pretty much allowed to do whatever they want as long as they maybe got a physical beforehand and came in healthy.
You know, because why can't a guy, like, look, if you can snort a line and run faster, right?
Folostatin Testosterone Injections00:16:09
And your vitals are in check, you should be able to do that.
Why not?
Right.
Maybe your vitals won't be in check when you do that.
I don't know where you're going to draw the line.
Yeah.
I mean, there's got to be a line somewhere, obviously.
And obviously, like advertisers are not going to go for it.
And this guy just snowed at a line before he came up to the line to run.
But like I said, I'm probably being a little exaggerating.
That's funny, though.
There's something, too.
Like if you're going to have the enhanced games, make it enhanced.
Yeah.
And it doesn't just enhance athletics, you know, I think they also enhance creativity.
Oh, yeah.
Like some of the best music is done on people with, you know, people on drugs to make the best music.
You know, there's a lot of bands and there's a lot of musicians who, once they get sober, they're not creating the same kind of art.
Yeah.
Even testosterone, though, has such a tie in to the brain and depression that people that take testosterone usually are less depressed, you know, have a better outlook on life, are more motivated, are actually nicer.
So people think like people take testosterone.
And turn into assholes, it's kind of the opposite.
They usually turn, they usually become nicer and more generous.
And there's a lot of things that are, you know, that testosterone can do that can really help society, you know, where people aren't such bad guys, you know.
And when your testosterone is low, that's the people that are, you know, it's not that if your testosterone is low, you're going to be a troublemaker or an asshole, but your chances of being depressed are a lot higher.
Right.
And if you're depressed, you're not going to be very nice all the time, you know?
Yeah.
Yeah, I've always been interested in trying it again.
I tried it once.
Testosterone?
Yeah.
I tried it once.
How old are you?
I'm 37.
37, yeah.
So you're right about the age where, like, you should go get it checked.
And if it's not.
I get it checked all the time.
I get it.
I get my blood work done at least twice a year.
And what's your testosterone at?
It was set.
It goes.
It bounces between the highest it's ever been is like 850, and the lowest it's ever been is like 600, I think.
Yeah.
So yours is pretty good.
And I'm like, I'm saying, like, I'm not a doctor.
I'm not going to tell you to go on it or not.
Well, I did it for three months.
My recommendation is I think it's great.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
Right.
And I feel great when I'm on it.
So, it's like, that's just my recommendation.
It's like, you're gonna have to pull that card at some point.
Yeah.
I think so.
Why not just pull it now?
That's my thought, but I'm not telling you to do it.
No, I did it for three months and I tried it.
And I was like, you know, I wanna see.
I hear all these people talking about it.
And I'm like, you know, I think what really got me interested in was listening to Derek, More Plates, More Dates.
And I was like, God, I gotta fucking try this.
It sounds amazing.
At the same time, it's not the panacea of like, all of a sudden the whole world opens up to you.
That's what I thought it was gonna be.
Things just are a little bit easier.
Yeah, I didn't feel that.
I didn't feel any difference.
If anything, I felt more tired.
Yeah.
I felt more tired.
But that's the beauty of it, right?
Because it's your choice and just come off of it again.
Yeah.
And I just stopped it.
And I never noticed any kind of difference.
I felt probably better once I got off.
There's some new drugs that are going to be a little bit better because even though I still hate needles, no matter how much, whatever.
So there's some new oral testosterone coming down the pipeline.
That's supposed to be pretty good, really.
Yeah, so like I just think it'll help compliance, you know, because it's hard to testosterone, it's like it's a pain in the ass, you got to keep injecting it.
People get, but that's the safest way to do it, though, right?
Is yeah, the injecting because you're injecting the exact same thing because people mess around with like the SARMs and stuff and like antagonizing the uh, you know, what's crazy when I was in the best shape of my life, I was on a bunch of SARMs that I got from my friend, Dr. Tony Huge, who's not a doctor, I know who that guy is.
Yeah, so Dr. Tony Huge gave me like, here, here's a box of SARMs, and I'm like, what are they doing?
He's like.
Ah, take one of these, take one of these, take one of these.
And I did it.
And like, I was fucking jacked and shredded.
And I don't know, man.
Like, everybody's like, ah, SARMs are garbage.
And given my, I wasn't doing my blood work.
I don't, it might have been in the gutter.
I'm not really sure.
Because then after that, I had done SARMs.
I did a SARM called Rad 140, and it plummeted my testosterone down to 51.
Wow.
And then I got back on TRT, and I've stayed on TRT since and not messed with SARMs.
But I have to say the best shape I ever was in was on SARMS and not on anabolic steroids.
Interesting.
And that's just my own anecdotal.
I have a really good friend who I was trying to educate him about testosterone.
And I was like, because he was like, he went through this like couple year phase where he just was like not interested in going out, not interested in doing any kind of like activities with anyone.
He wasn't interested in chicks anymore.
It didn't seem like he hadn't had a girlfriend in a couple years.
And I'm like, bro, you should.
You should get your blood work done.
Figure out what your testosterone level is.
He's also a fucking huge stoner.
He smokes weed all day, every day.
And he got his blood work done, and his testosterone was 50.
He's my age.
Yeah, that can happen.
And he got a testosterone.
Now he's back to normal.
Now he's got a girlfriend.
He's motivated again.
And his life changed.
It felt horrible.
When my testosterone was that low, I felt just terrible.
I couldn't do anything, couldn't function.
Yeah, I can't imagine what that must feel like for some people.
But it's prescribed.
in Europe, I think for ADHD or ADD.
It's prescribed for like a normal thing.
Yeah.
You know, what's interesting too is that they make it, they make it's kind of like you had to jump through hoops to get testosterone.
Yeah.
So like I go to a telehealth clinic because it's easy.
Yeah.
So I have to go to a doctor.
Like for some reason, I've been on testosterone forever because I just moved to Texas.
I have to go to a doctor and get a physical and send that physical to my telehealth person so they can prescribe me testosterone.
Yeah.
which I've been on forever.
Right.
It's like, why are you making it hard?
You know, I think that's one of the problems with, uh, with the healthcare industry is they make it hard to do anything.
Yeah.
Everything's impossible.
You know, and it's like, if I want to get on a GLP 1 drug to drop a ton of weight, I don't have to get any blood work done.
But for testosterone, I need blood work.
I don't know why you want to be safe, but it's like they make it so difficult to do it the proper way, which sucks.
They make it difficult because there is too much of a barrier to entry to most people because they just give up and they go, well, I don't, I don't, yeah.
Yeah.
And one of the biggest fears with it is, you know, is there any truth to some of these facts that like it can increase your, Your arterial plaque, or it can increase heart disease, or it can shorten your lifespan.
There's really no evidence that at the levels of TRT, right, that it'll do anything negative.
Well, look at how old is Arnold?
He was doing like 80?
How much testosterone was he doing in his teens and his early 20s?
He was probably doing an insane amount.
He's probably doing grams.
Yeah, the drugs were different back then.
They would take D ball, yeah, they would take a little bit.
Again, though, go back to genetics.
Arnold would still look awesome if he never took anything.
Yeah.
Like he'd still look.
I mean, he is a genetic freak.
Do you think he still takes it though now?
I'm sure he's taking testosterone now still.
Yeah.
Even at this age?
Yeah.
In his 80s, you think he still takes it?
Just probably a lower amount.
I think he takes it.
I know Stallone takes it.
Really?
Yeah.
I mean, I don't know for a fact, but I mean.
That's, you know, the fact that those guys have made it to their 80s.
Yeah.
I don't know for a fact that Stallone takes it, but I know he is.
He has been on it, and so they're like, again, what reason is there to go off if you're you know at that age?
I know Vince McMahon, he's got to be still on it.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.
It's just uh, you know, it's a funny chemical, man.
It's it's so it's such a funny thing that, like, what the happened?
Like, why do human beings have this weird chemical in our body that just makes us horny?
Yeah, and you know, and the other, it's it's sort of the purpose of it, like, why hormone?
Why do we have that?
Like, why what part of nature is that?
Just because is it an evolutionary process that just helps, like makes us want to reproduce and propagate our species?
Like, it seems like that's the benefit of it.
It's like a sliding scale, right?
Because, like, men and women both have testosterone and estrogen.
And so, our.
And the higher the testosterone in the woman, the more horny she is.
Yeah.
Our testosterone is high.
And, you know, it's funny because, like, we actually make products for that.
Like, when you're talking about, like, how horny a woman is, Stenazinol, which is Winstrel, they actually make a formula of Stenazinol that is a.
Like a rub, like a cream that a woman will rub on their clit, basically.
Really?
And it makes them really horny.
And it's supposed to, like, heal relationships from what I hear.
Wow.
Yeah, because, like, it'll just make the woman, like, really, like, aggressively horny.
And you can get that at a compounding pharmacy, you know?
Wow.
But yeah, it's like there's levels of, like, you know, a woman will have high estrogen, low testosterone, and a man is the opposite.
Yeah.
But if you give a woman, Just a little pinch of testosterone, a lot of times that gives them a lot of energy, makes them feel a lot better.
So it's like the problem with women, usually, and this is another reason for compounding pharmacies.
The other reason is dosing.
So if you go to a, if you ask your doctor, can you use a compounding pharmacy and you're a woman and they give you testosterone, they can give you a more precise dose because they can make it for you.
So they can, like, instead of you trying to draw out like one tiny little milliliter out of a bottle and taking too much and starting to grow hair places you don't want to, they make it more watered down, basically, or oiled down, so that you can take a bigger chunk of it and inject it so it's more normal.
So it's more like the same way a man would take it.
It's just that it's watered down so that you can measure it.
Sometimes things are just immeasurable.
Right.
You're like, did that even work?
Did I even put it in myself?
I don't even know.
Yeah.
And the compounding pharmacies, I don't think they can get it as accurate as like pharmaceutical grade, right?
There's a difference between.
So the place where I work, Empower Pharmacy, it's probably the largest compounding pharmacy in the world.
I know, at least probably in the country.
But everything we make is to GMP standards.
So GMP is general manufacturing practices.
We can't make anything FDA.
It's not FDA approved.
The ingredients are FDA approved.
Mm hmm.
But the actual final product that we make is not FDA approved because the FDA would have to come and check it, and they don't check on compounding pharmacies.
So, like, it's a weird thing.
It's like.
Yeah, but it's made.
So, the stuff that you buy from a compounding pharmacy versus a cell phone pharmacy.
It is of the highest quality you can possibly get, in my opinion.
So, it's produced the same way as stuff you buy from, like, Walgreens or CVS?
Yes.
Okay.
Yeah, same as produced.
And they make it from.
How do they make it?
Isn't it yams or something?
It used to be.
It's really weird because I've had this question for years, right?
Yeah.
And no one can ever really answer it because they're like, well, it's synthetic.
I'm like, but what's it from?
Like, it's got to come from something.
And like, it comes from chemicals.
I'm like, I don't know.
So it used to come from, they used to take extracts of Mexican yams and use those molecules to make synthetic testosterone, which they turn in like, you know, a keg of powder, you know, a 55 gallon drum of powder and ship it across the country.
So, or, you know, from China or wherever they make it.
Yeah.
So, I don't know exactly.
It's still a mystery to me because everybody I talk to, that's a good thing for me to investigate now because everybody I talk to is like, oh, it's just from a factory.
It's a synthetic.
And I'm like, what is that?
It's a weird thing to wrap your mind around that, though.
Like, do I want to inject my body with shit that was made in a fucking lab?
And what am I doing to my body?
Am I turning myself into some sort of a genetic cyborg by doing this?
Yeah, it was.
The crazy thing is, though, when you measure it, It's literally bioidentical.
That's what I'm saying.
It's bioidentical.
So it's like they've basically found a way to trick the body into well, I mean, it's the same thing.
Yeah, it's amazing that they can do that.
And so the other thing is that at Empower, we have these testosterone versions that are so great because you can take an insulin pin, which is like really tiny, a little tiny insulin pin, prick the bottle, draw a little bit out and inject it with no problem because ours is so thin.
It's made to inject.
It's made to be easy.
It's made so it doesn't.
Like a different kind of carrier oil or something?
Yeah.
It's made with specific.
We have a specific formula that only we have that makes it easier to draw out so you can use a smaller needle.
Right.
I wonder how far away we are from just being able to create our own genetically modified babies, you know, that are just like those jacked cows.
Oh, that's coming.
Yeah.
Like CRISPR and the Belgian blue cows with the myostatin.
It's a myostatin inhibitor.
Yeah.
So myostatin limits how big something can get, how muscular something can get.
And if you inhibit that, it'll just keep growing and getting bigger.
And the myostatin blockers and things that are on the market right now are all garbage.
None of them really work.
I remember Rich Piana was a friend of mine.
I love Rich Piana.
He was a giant, jacked, huge bodybuilder.
You should maybe pull him up because he looks amazing.
But Rich Piana, before he passed away, he was messing with this stuff called falastatin because he thought falastatin could be the next big thing for really growing.
Yeah, unfortunately.
Oh, I remember this guy.
Fortunately, he passed away.
What did he die of?
So, I don't know exactly what he died of.
I think it was an opioid overdose, to be honest, from everything I've deduced from the case.
He basically took something, started foaming at the mouth, and fell on the table.
And he was with his girlfriend.
She was cutting his hair.
And then he went into a coma.
Maybe they did an induced coma with him.
And then, like 10 days later, he passed away.
He was just a really cool guy, but he had told me in Gold's Gym.
That he was messing around with this Folostatin stuff.
Folostatin?
It's F O L L I S, like statin.
Folistatin, maybe.
Anyway, Folostatin is basically a, it's going to inhibit myostatin.
But here's the deal I went to Mexico.
When I went to Mexico to get those stem cells, I also did a Folostatin shot that has a technology called mini circles.
And what mini circles do, is replicate the drug inside your body.
This is like another technology that's nuts.
But basically, like, so instead of the folostatin shot having only a 90, usually has a 90 minute half life, which means like it's active in your body for 90 minutes and then it goes away.
So instead of being like this active, instead of only being active for 90 minutes and you have to shoot it again, these mini circles keep replicating the substance in your body for like a year and a half.
So it's like you take a folostatin shot, And it keeps replicating for a year and a half.
Now, that shot is $25,000 to get one shot, and it's supposed to last a year and a half.
Mini Circles Stem Cell Tech00:02:42
I have not seen or felt any benefit from it.
You know, like I didn't get super jacked.
So I don't think it did anything.
So I don't know.
The jury's still out on folostatin of whether or not it works in humans.
Or, you know, I'm just saying, like, I'm just one case study.
Brian Johnson, the guy who, It's trying to live to be 200 years old or whatever.
He's also done it.
I don't think it did anything for him either yet.
I mean, I don't know.
I mean, I've not seen a follow-up video from him about it.
What do you think about that guy?
I think it's great what he's doing.
I watched a documentary on him, and I think he's just like a lot of people.
Isn't he taking his kids' blood?
He's a very emotionally hurt person who is.
Made a lot of money and is like taking that and turning it into something that he can believe in and something that you know makes him happy.
And like, I'm all for it, I'm like, you know what, go for it.
But like, you could tell, um, he's broken, he's like a broken person who didn't get a lot of love from his dad.
Like, I don't know if you saw the documentary they did on him, it was really good because it sort of showed, you know, both sides of it.
He didn't get a lot of love from his dad, he was never the cool kid, and now he gets, you know, he's got hundreds of millions of dollars and he gets to play the cool kid.
You know, and people want to know what he's up to and what he's doing.
I think it makes him feel good.
Will he live to be any longer than anybody else?
I don't think so.
I think he's making a big mistake by being on just a vegan diet.
You know, I think there's a lot of, yeah, there's a lot of.
And he doesn't do any testosterone or anything like that.
He does testosterone.
Oh, does he really?
Yeah, but I think there's a big advantage to eating animal protein, even if it's just minimal, you know?
Yeah.
And he also, you know.
He always defers.
You ever watch the video of him and Derek from More Plates Watch?
I watched part of that.
Derek destroys him so many times.
And I'm not out to destroy anybody.
I think what he's doing is great.
I think it's great to experiment and learn different things.
But Derek just asks him, like, well, Who's your team?
He goes, Well, you know, my team, they have it, you know.
And it's like, Okay, this is another charlatan con artist trying to make money off of people, right?
And so you go, Is it that, or is he just another hurt guy who's trying to get some attention?
I don't know.
It's one of the two.
Well, is he selling a bunch of shit?
Yeah, he's selling a bunch of shit.
Okay.
But like, I'm not going to follow, you know, it's like, I'm not going to be gullible and buy the shit that he's selling because I know that doesn't work, you know?
Right.
Rob Wolf Gut Optimization00:04:43
I don't know.
A lot of these people don't bother me as much as they bother other people because, like, I'm never going to buy the thing that they're selling ever in a million years.
Yeah.
So it doesn't bother me that they're making money off people.
You know, I've, you know.
There's just a lot of people who just like come onto the scene out of nowhere.
Well, it's.
That come up and they happen to be bringing an amazing online store with tons of shit you can buy from them.
And one of the things that is just mind blowing to me is that there's people out there that are carnivore coaches.
And it's like, what do you do if you're a carnivore coach?
Be like, eat more meat.
Right.
You know, oh, you're not eating enough meat, eat more meat.
You know, and it's like, I get it, like people need support on their diet or whatever, but I just think it's there's just so many grifters in fitness that the last thing you need to do is have somebody tell you you're eating meat and water wrong.
You know, like that's not like it's not a thing.
It's like the diet is meat and water, that's all you can have, that's it, that's all you need to know.
You know, and you might have you might need a little coaching through the beginning of it and the transition.
Yeah, but there's enough, there's a million videos online too.
So the fact that people are making money off of it.
Always makes me shake my head, you know.
I guess if you have the money to pay somebody to like, you know, walk you step by step into like how to like meal prep and like how to buy the right kind of food and how to like what time of day to eat it.
Yeah.
Cause there's so much more that goes into it other than what you're eating, right?
Like there's like, again, something else I learned from Jack and this girl, Alexis, who Alexis Cowan, who came in here, which they were, she was explaining to me how like you're supposed to eat during the time when the sun comes up before the UVA light kicks in.
So, like, there's this short window of time, typically like an hour and a half, depending on what part of the world you're in, where the UV and infrared light is coming out, you know, coming from the sun.
And when that sun is low in the sky, apparently is when your metabolism is working at the highest possible speed.
So that's when you're supposed to eat, when your metabolism is really kicking in.
And then once the UVA light kicks in, like around here, I think it's like 10 o'clock, that's when you're supposed to eat less or not eat as much because that's when you're, um, Like high noon is basically the slowest point of your metabolism during the day.
So, that's the point in time if you're optimizing for energy.
That's not when you want to eat.
So, like a lot of people like to skip breakfast and, you know, eat lunch and dinner.
But, like, when I learned that, I started eating a huge breakfast, you know, after I wake up and then skipping lunch.
And personally, for me, I felt a hundred times better.
Sounds like it works way more fucking energy.
You know, Rob Wolf eats like that.
Rob Wolf's really smart.
He's one of the top guys.
You know, he's one of the first person I followed when I did like paleo and stuff like that.
And then we became friends with him.
And Rob Wolf told me something that stuck with me forever.
First of all, he said just what you said.
Maybe you're better off like eating breakfast and eating dinner.
Yeah.
And like sort of intermittent fasting in between, you know, where you don't eat anything.
Right.
And then he also said, I think if our country just simply ate from like from when the sun comes up until the sun comes down and not a minute before, not a minute after, right.
We would solve like 80% of our health problems.
Right.
And I'm like, that's that's a pretty bold statement.
And he goes, Yeah, but I think it's true.
He's like, I think the fact is most people eat, you know, when they're not supposed to eat, they eat too late at night.
Like, you got to.
When the sun goes down, shut it down.
Right.
And that's like our circadian rhythm.
Right.
I don't know if he said 80%.
I don't want to misquote him, but he said a majority of our health problems.
Totally.
The other thing is that I think people need to understand because we've talked about all these different diets and different plans.
And like I said, I think they're all great tools.
But the thing that I think people really need to understand is that like literally losing weight is the number one way to cure your health problems.
So like if you have any kind of health problem, no matter what it seems to be, it seems that like losing weight will always.
Almost always help it.
And that comes from our friend Stan Efforting, who's a gigantic bodybuilder, but he's just very intelligent.
And that's like another thing that's always stuck with me is like, if your body's failing you, lose weight because it resolves so many problems.
Like for most people, it's because they're overweight.
Right.
You know, some things are not going to be because you're overweight.
Like you might have a gut issue, things like that.
But like a lot of our health problems resolve when we simply lose weight.
Some people get, some sort of issue and they go, I don't know how to fix it.
It's kind of like, well, just lose weight.
Right.
Well, it's saying just lose weight, though, with like, how?
Like, what's the best way to lose weight?
Like, what part of your lifestyle do you have to change to lose weight?
Grass Finished Beef Truths00:04:20
That's another thing.
Like, just taking Ozempic is, I don't think, going to be the right answer.
Like, you got to, there's got to be like a decent balance of, of lifestyle changes that you incorporate to losing weight.
Right.
Like, you know, fixing your circadian rhythm, being outside more, eating the right times of the day, not eating processed junk food, not eating out every single day.
And then, you know, As well, another thing that I learned is like eating native, like eating native meats, like eating around here the fish that is caught around here and not salmon that's imported from the other side of the you know from a fish farm in Michigan or something like that.
That's you know another huge thing that I learned.
Well, it's like where does your food come from, right?
That's like that's a huge thing for me is like I really only eat food, you know, food from certain like, like I said, I eat like meat, fruit, and vegetables, so it's all pretty much right, you know.
Things that are fresh, things that are local, things that, you know, with the fruits, I'd say that's probably not local because that's coming from like all over the place.
Yeah.
But you really can't help it in today's day and age.
I mean, like, what do you do?
You can't really go the way the world's built.
It's hard.
It's like you go to the store and you're like, well, I'm only going to buy strawberries because that's what grows around here.
Yeah.
And it's like you're going to limit all the rest of the stuff that you can.
Yeah.
It doesn't grow, you know.
That's why I like living near the ocean.
There's so much good seafood around here.
So much good shit.
Yeah, you know, that's one thing I miss about California and California.
I'm right by the ocean.
So all the seafood was good.
I don't eat a lot of seafood, but now that I live in Houston, it's like there's no that's like landlocked kind of.
Yeah, you know, it's like not.
Yeah, I don't trust it.
This is the actually right down the street here is the biggest grouper port in the world.
There's more grouper caught out in the Gulf of Mexico right here than anywhere in the world.
You eat a lot of fish.
Yeah, I eat a ton of fish.
A ton of grouper and snappers mostly.
Yeah, because that's from around here.
And then, you know, like the tuna is good, but like this all the salmon, all the salmon is dog shit around here.
There's very, I mean, there's some of it that's imported from Alaska that's like, you know, king salmon, but most, you know, 99% of the salmon that you go to any sushi restaurant, all of that comes from these salmon farms.
And that's so hard, right?
because salmon is so good for you, but also so bad if you're getting the salmon from salmon farms, it's not eating what it's supposed to eat.
So what happens is in the stomach of that fish, it's monogastric.
It has one intestine.
Like a cow can take almost any food you give.
You can give a cow corn.
You can give a cow old Skittles or old M&Ms, and it's going to turn it into high quality beef no matter what you do.
It's got four stomachs.
A cow has four stomachs?
Yeah.
How did I not know that?
I don't know.
That's crazy.
But what it does is it can take anything, anything it eats, and turn it into high quality protein for humans.
Whereas a pig can't do that.
And a, you know, a pig can't do it.
And a, you know, a sheep can do it, but you're not going to, people don't really feed sheep crappy stuff.
But a lot of times, like you'll see cows, like on these, you know, in these feedlots, and the feed they give them sometimes is crap.
You know, like they give them, like I said, like old Skittles, old, like broken MMs, and they throw it in a bunch of feed.
They'll throw it in for the cows to eat.
And like, to be honest, it doesn't really make a difference in the health outcomes that we've seen, you know?
I don't know if they've ever done a study specifically on that, but it doesn't seem to matter when you stack up like the benefits of grass finished beef to, you know, it might, there might be some differences in it.
Like, okay, you get healthier fat from the grass finished beef.
But first of all, they just did a study that found out like 80% of the grass finished beef in America, like isn't really grass finished beef.
Anyway, so first of all, you're dealing with that, and then second of all, you're dealing with like, well, how much of a difference does it make?
Because it's like two dollars a pound more for the grass finish stuff, so you got to like weigh out those issues.
And then, with the salmon, since it doesn't have anywhere to go, it will digest the corn that they're feeding it, and it'll turn into the wrong kinds of fat that you don't need.
And so now you're having like salmon that instead of being high in omega-3 fat, which is good for you, is high in omega-6 fat or omega-9 fat, which we already have too much of, right.
Pete Berg Movie Directing00:05:12
So it's kind of messes up everything.
Yeah.
So I think we covered everything.
We covered a bunch of your documentaries, but I don't think we covered the Trophy Kids documentary.
Oh, yeah.
Trophy Kids was fun.
At what point did you do the Trophy Kids documentary?
Yeah.
So what happened was I did Trophy Kids actually second.
That was the second.
That was after Bigger, Stronger, Faster.
Yeah.
So what happened was I made Bigger, Stronger, Faster.
And it went to Sundance.
It did, you know, it did great.
Yeah.
And, um, Basically, like I was trying to figure out what to do next and couldn't really figure it out, didn't really get anything going.
Like, I was represented by William Morris.
I was actually trying to, they were trying to sign me on to like direct some big, pretty big movies, but it seemed like one after the other, they just kept like falling apart.
So, in the meantime, I was hanging out with my best friend who was a six foot eight, you know, basketball player from Michigan, big dude, and he was coaching kids basketball.
And I go to go like hang out with them, maybe coaching like AAU practice.
And I watched the parents arguing, yelling at them, telling them, like, hey, what are you doing?
My kid's really good.
He needs to play.
Yeah.
All this stuff.
I'm like, dude, we should film this.
This is crazy.
Cause like it's nuts, you know.
And one mom coming to him saying, you know, I don't know if I should hold them back this year because I need to put some weight on them.
And, you know, like, oh my God.
They're basically like fattening their kids up for the slaughter, you know.
And, um, I just thought it was an insane world.
And so I just started bringing a camera and started filming it.
And then, um, Because I worked out at Gold's Gym, I would see Pete Berg all the time.
And I go, Hey, Pete, I got something for you to see.
And he's like, Okay, like, email it to me.
So, I emailed him like a little trailer because I just like took some of it and cut it together.
I said, You think this would be a good movie?
I was like, Oh, this would be a fucking great movie.
Like, we got to do this.
And so he basically just said, Go ahead, go out and just like shoot a bunch of stuff and then bring it back to me and we'll see where you're at and whatever.
And so I went out and shot a bunch of stuff basically for free, you know, like went out and shot it with like the hopes of like, Hey, hopefully this, you know, gets picked up or something.
Yeah.
And then what ended up happening is he saw it.
He saw like a longer trailer, like a three minute trailer once I had everything cut together, and he just loved it.
So he basically brought it into his company and turned it into like a two fold thing.
It's a documentary called Trophy Kids, and then people can still see it right now on HBO Max.
It's part of a program that Pete Berg did called State of Play.
You can look up Trophy Kids on HBO Max, and I'm sure you'll find it.
And that's a shorter version of it.
Unfortunately, The this happens a lot with documentaries and movies.
The company we were working with on Trophy Kids basically imploded and no longer exists, so I don't even know.
The production company, yeah, the production company.
And um, it was on Netflix for a little while, it did pretty well on Netflix, but then you know, Netflix has terms, I think it was on there for two years, yeah, and it got pulled off.
To me, it was an amazing movie because the um, following these kids and their and their parents was crazy, and then the HBO version is only like a 40 minute version of it.
So it was like an hour and 15 minute, hour and like 45 minute movie cut down to like 40 minutes.
Yeah.
Which is just kind of the highlights of the parents yelling at the kids, which is still a lot of fun.
Yeah.
But that's the version I think that lives on HBO.
And like the full version, I don't even know whatever happened to it, but that was just a crazy project to make because it was, you know, to me it was cool because it got on, it got onto HBO.
Yeah.
And like, you know, I, but you know, the problem is I never got any credit.
Zero credit.
Oh, really?
So, like, when you go on HBO and watch it, my name's not even on it.
Oh, wow.
Because I got, so here's what happened.
So, to be honest with it, here's what happened.
When we finished that movie, was when I was, when we finished Trophy Kids, that's when I needed to go to rehab.
And so, actually, in a weird way, I think Pete Berg helped like save my life, to be honest.
So, like, he was the one that told me, hey, man, you're pretty fucked up.
Like, you need to fix yourself.
And he's somebody who, like, I was so excited.
That Pete Berg wanted to like work on my mood, like, he wanted to help me with this movie.
I was so pumped about it.
And then he tells me, Hey, man, you're pretty fucked up.
Like, you smell like booze a lot.
You look pretty disheveled.
Like, what's going on with you?
And, like, I was just like, Man, like, I just got kind of yelled at by Peter Berg, you know, like, he's a big time director.
Like, you know, and I just took it to heart.
And, like, two weeks after that, I was in rehab.
So, the reason there's a reason why my name wasn't on that part of the movie.
But I still think it's fucked up and my name should still be on it.
Yeah.
I directed the entire thing.
I shot the entire movie.
Like I shot, physically shot it with, you know, with my own camera.
So I think my name should be on it.
Yeah.
I would say so.
So the full version it is, but not on that version.
Dwayne Gordon Calves Analysis00:06:37
So what was it about these parents that made them such psychos?
They just, they think that they love their kids.
They think that they love their kids.
Yeah.
They don't know how to love their kids, you know?
And so they think like, well, if my kid's good at basketball and I can get him a scholarship, you know, it was like, instead of.
Putting them on, like it was kind of funny because it was a follow up to bigger, stronger, faster.
Where I said, Well, if you can't put them on steroids, just start them younger.
And it was like, I was just watching all these kids starting younger and younger and younger in different sports.
And, you know, it got to a point where it's like ridiculous.
You have like five and six year olds who can't even throw a ball, and their parents are like yelling at them to do better, you know?
And I watched it from all different angles.
Like, we have a parent in the movie who's a tennis mom, and she's like a born again Christian.
And she's got all these wacky thoughts about like, my will for my boys is that they're going to be number one in the world in tennis.
And I've asked God about this, and I've prayed to God and said, They're going to be number one in tennis.
And it's like, lady, what are you thinking?
You don't pray to God for your kids to be happy and healthy.
You don't pray to God for your kid to be good at tennis.
And then you're, you know, to be honest, your kids kind of suck at tennis.
They're not that good.
They'll never, they'll never, like, we knew that these kids would never make it in the big time.
Like, you know it.
Like, you know, when you play sports when you're a kid, you know, when you have that kid on your team, like, that kid's going to go somewhere.
Oh, yeah.
You know, and like, when we were, it's kind of funny because, like, when we were younger, We saw it with my older brother.
My older brother played football and he was really good.
And we're like, Mad Dog, like, he's going to probably go somewhere and do something.
But then we had this kid that came in from another school who was like six foot two.
This jacked black kid named Dwayne Gordon comes in.
He's six foot two, 240 pounds in high school.
And we're like, that guy's going to, like, he's going to go to the pros.
And we knew, you just, you knew, you knew, like, those are the guys, those two guys on that team.
We're going to go somewhere.
And so my older brother ended up going to the University of Cincinnati.
He's the first person in the history of our high school to ever go play Division I football, but he dropped out in a year because he hurt his knee and he wanted to come home because he missed his girlfriend.
And then he went and wrestled for WWE.
Dwayne Gordon, on the other hand, went to New Hampshire, which is Division I AA, played linebacker there.
He was awesome.
And then he went on and played for the Jets for a couple of years.
But you just knew, like, when Dwayne Gordon stepped on the field, you knew, like, that guy's going to be a pro, man.
Like, there's no doubt about it.
Yeah.
And I think, like, even when I went to USC, I knew the kids that were in my classes are like, okay, that guy's going to be a pro.
There's no doubt.
Like, he just holds himself in that way.
And, you know.
Yeah.
There was a kid I went to school with in like fourth, fifth, and sixth grade.
And he was clearly, he did not belong in that class with us.
Like, he towered above all of us.
He was just like super athletic, super freak, fast.
And even the teacher was like, this guy's going to be in the fucking NFL.
Like, even when we were playing, we were playing like, Uh, like flag football, yeah, and it was just like completely unbelievable how this kid he wasn't even in the same universe as us athletically.
And he ended up going to the NFL, he went and played for the Gators, then played for an NFL team.
And the thing is, you see it with their parents, they're usually cool, like they're not well, this kid's parents, they're not usually nutty.
This kid's parents were both athletes, like the dad, I think he was like super tall, athletic dude, and the mom was like a former WNBA player, I think.
Really, so it's almost like you know, these two super athletes got together to create.
A super athlete child.
Well, there's going to be a lot more of that coming up.
I mean, that's going to be like the next thing is like you're going to be able to design whatever kind of kid you want.
So there's an old HBO Real Sports thing that when I was making Trophy Kids, I originally was going to make it more like bigger, stronger, faster.
So I had all these clips that I found, and I found this clip of a sperm bank, and it's an ESPN clip of whatever HBO Real Sports maybe or one of those.
And it's a Basically, a story about a sperm bank where you can go and you can say, I want my kid to have big calves.
I want them to have, literally, I want them to have blue eyes, blonde hair, be 6'3 with big calves.
And they'll like, what they do is they match up donors, different, like women and men donors, and they try to give you the best shot at what you want.
And it's like, oh my God.
And that was like maybe, that clip's like 10 years old.
So I'm sure that that's going on already.
And does it work?
Well, it's not going to guarantee that the kid's good at anything.
You know, like we had a bunch of kids at our school.
That were like really big and they should have played football or should have, you know, they never just never did because they were lazy.
Right.
That's crazy.
So you can't predict that.
You can't predict if somebody's going to be lazy or not.
Yeah, right.
Yeah, you definitely can't pick that.
But like, I mean, when we get to the point where people can just go to a clinic and just like choose from a menu all the traits that they want their kids to be, it's going to be like ordering a smoothie.
Like, do you want bananas, strawberries?
You know, what do you want?
What do you want in it?
And it's like, yeah, I'll get, I'll take the big calves, you know, and like.
The big calves.
Well, that's what's funny.
I would draw on big calves.
I don't know the benefit of that.
I don't know that because I have big calves and they don't do anything for me.
Right.
The most athletic people have small calves.
No one ever, no one's ever stopped me and like wanted to take a picture of my big calves.
You know, no one's ever, yeah, there's never really been any advantage to it.
Right, right.
They're just there.
And it's just genetic.
Like I've never done a calf raise.
I shouldn't say I've never done a calf raise in my life, but I haven't done calf raises in like 20 years.
Well, like the most super athletic athletes, right?
In America, at least, the most jacked super athletes, like LeBron James for a The best example is Jones.
They have no calves.
Yeah, nothing.
Right.
But you're not going to tell them.
Go tell them you have no calves and get kicked right in the head.
Exactly.
You know what I mean?
Or like Usain Bolt, you know?
Like these guys, interesting.
What would be the benefit of having big calves, I wonder?
They don't really make them stronger, I don't think.
I don't think I can out-calve anybody.
You know what I mean?
Oh my God.
That's so funny, bro.
Well, Chris, dude, thanks for doing this, man.
This is awesome.
Fucking amazing.
Uh, conversation.
I appreciate you coming and doing this.
It's a fun podcast, man.
I really appreciate being on here and the opportunity to talk to you.
Big Strong Fast Future Plans00:01:39
Hell yeah, man.
Um, you, your documentaries are fantastic, and uh, everything else you're doing.
If there is a way people can like get in contact with you or um, watch any of your stuff, yeah, I'm um, I'm on Instagram at bigstrongfast.
That's pretty much the only place I am at right now.
Um, I am going to be making a couple more movies, I'm just trying to decide on like what to make.
And what to do, you know, like in the meantime here.
So I'm definitely looking into that.
You know, I've been wanting to make a sequel to Bigger, Stronger, Faster for quite some time because I think there's such a divide between steroids then, like when I made the movie, and where it's at now.
Yeah.
And what, you know, and what can be done through modern medicine, like with all the stuff I'm talking about, like what's the difference between replacing your testosterone and showing people what that story is and And like people juicing, like, no, you, I don't want people to juice.
I want people to use testosterone and sort of telling that story, you know.
Um, and you know, I want to do something about eyeball gain, I want to do, um, maybe something again in this, you know, kratom space.
So it's just like figuring out what to do next is sort of, uh, what I'm trying to do.
That's that's where I'm at right now.
Should do a podcast, yeah.
I'm working on it, man.
That would be phenomenal.
Yeah, I might need to hear everything, you know, everything you're doing every day of the week.
We don't have to wait.
You know, a year for a documentary.
I might need your help.
I used to make documentaries, and that's how I created this podcast.