Zoltan Bathory and Danny Goler dissect a DARPA-funded UNC study on psychedelics for soldiers, linking it to MKUltra's history. They explore Zoltan's journey from communist Hungary to founding Code of Reality Inc., aiming to unify neuroscientists and psychonauts to verify DMT entities like "machine elves." Challenging physicalism, they argue consciousness interacts with a universal code, citing verifiable expulsions from shared meditative spaces and NDE insights. Ultimately, the discussion urges humanity to integrate contemplative science with technical fields to solve the hard problem of consciousness before AI renders labor obsolete. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, WAV2VEC2_ASR_BASE_960H, sat-12l-sm, script v26.04.01, and large-v3-turbo
Time
Text
Rolling With DMT And Guns00:03:02
Oh, we are rolling.
Beautiful.
Like, you mean jiu jitsu rolling or just rolling?
Not jiu jitsu rolling, just regular rolling.
Maybe later we'll do some jiu jitsu rolling.
I got to bring my mat over here, though.
Maybe you can smoke DMT and then you guys can roll.
Could you imagine?
It wouldn't be much of a roll.
I mean, he played with me like some cat toy or something.
I think that's regardless.
Well, Dan Hardy, right?
The MMA fighter, he used to talk about his usage of psychedelics in fighting.
Who?
Dan Hardy was his name?
I don't know.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
He was a famous UFC fighter.
Really?
Yeah.
And he used to talk about how he used to get in the cage on mushrooms.
And he said, I could see the future, he said.
Like, I can see that.
Yeah.
Well, you know, they do that.
They give that to war fighters now.
Remember that article I sent you last night?
Yeah.
They're giving people in Ukraine, they're giving Ukrainian soldiers Ibogaine and like that and psychedelics, psychedelic mushrooms.
DARPA is doing this study that's funded.
They're funding people.
At the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, I think, to study the use of psychedelics like Ibogaine and even psilocybin on soldiers and on the battlefield.
On the battlefield?
On the battlefield for like edge detection.
Because I guess it's for healing.
Well, not just that, but to be more optimal with a fucking gun.
Ibogaine?
I guess.
The story you sent me looked like they were saying.
I just saw the title because it was in the middle of the night.
But the title seemed to have been implying that.
It's for healing, like trauma.
I think part of it's for the trauma, and part of it is also.
It's to remove your trauma so you can go back to battle.
Also, a huge part of it is for optimizing battlefield, like soldiers on the battlefield.
That's what it says in that story.
Yes.
That's insane.
Yes.
Maybe it's not that cool then.
To make them more accurate, like shooting.
I mean, that's insane.
That's the wrong usage of the film.
I can see what LSD definitely would be.
LSD, that's what they thought.
Yeah.
MKUltra, all that stuff, that's what they thought, right?
Yeah.
I mean, look, the government's been weaponizing drugs since the beginning of time, right?
If they're going to use.
Are studying drugs, they're going to figure out a way to weaponize them.
You know?
I mean, that, that you would think it sounds like it should be an obvious thing for us.
And yet, I think that the problem is that it's an obvious thing for us.
Yeah.
Like, that should not be the attitude of humanity as a whole.
Like, this idea that it's always a zero sum game just needs to go away, basically.
Yeah.
Otherwise, there's just no chance.
Because you're going to get bigger and bigger weapons.
You're going to be able to go wham and you're going to destroy more things.
So, the attitude of the monkey is the only thing that becomes.
Actually, it matters.
Well, there is that meme, you know, that people who run the government, those people never took mushrooms, and the people who took mushrooms know why this is a problem.
Yes.
Yeah, exactly, right?
Oh, man.
Well, it's great to have you guys here today.
Danny, Gohler, you're back.
We had a fantastic episode talking all about the DMT laser experiment you did.
And I'm sure we're going to talk more about that today and some of the new stuff you've been doing with it.
Zero Sum Game Attitude00:07:18
I had a blast.
And Zoltan, it's awesome to meet you, brother.
All right.
Wild conversation last night at dinner.
You are like a Renaissance man.
You're born in Hungary, correct?
That's correct.
Soviet controlled Hungary.
Yes.
Double black belt, jujitsu, judo, and you're founder of the band, Five Finger Death Punch.
Double in some music.
You do everything.
What the f don't you do?
And so that's pretty much it.
You know, like you have a check mark on life that these are the things I need to do and I just check them.
That's pretty much what it is.
Yeah.
So how did you guys get together?
How did you guys first meet?
We met through a mutual friend who I don't, I'm never sure if he necessarily wants to always be mentioned in every context, but we met through a mutual friend, very good friend, and we basically met at an event that Zoltan is now the founder of as well, which is the PGF.
It's a Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, would you call it a league?
Yes, a professional grappling federation, and we have Jiu Jitsu competitions.
Oh, okay.
I was invited to come help with the event, just kind of shoot stuff and all that good stuff, and then me and Zoltan were.
I was invited to Zoltan's house to shoot some, actually a podcast, or just do a little setup.
And I had to stay for another day because we were, you know, we were kind of rolling behind.
So then it was like, hey, can you stay overnight?
I'm like, sure.
That evening, we sit down, start talking.
He starts talking about some profound shit that, you know, always kind of the conversation drifts towards.
Yeah, yeah.
And then I remember the short version of the story is that I asked him some question about something that he was describing in the psychedelic space.
And then he kind of threw me a glance.
And he goes, okay.
And then he kept on talking.
And then I asked him another question.
Then he goes, wait a second.
And he goes, what's your name?
I go, because we didn't really.
I go, Danny.
And then he looks back at our mutual friend and goes, wait, this is DMT Danny.
I go, what?
He goes, bro, I've been following you.
I'm like, what?
No shit.
I was like, first of all, I didn't know my name was DMT Danny.
Second of all, and he's like, bro, I'm like, you know, and then later Zoltan was saying that the reason he looked at me is because he knew.
That the question I asked him, which I wish we would remember what it was, but I asked him something that he knew that only somebody who went really deep in the space kind of would know that kind of stuff because it's very specific.
And then from that moment on, we just literally became best friends.
We were just like two buttheads just sitting there and talking until 5 a.m. about all kinds of stuff.
He stayed a week.
I stayed a week.
And we started a conversation.
It lasted a week.
Stayed at your house a week.
That's the kind of thing where somehow people who are in this space, Usually, find each other.
I always joke about it.
There's no secret society.
What it is, is everybody's underwater and you pop your head out and look around, and whoever is out, you can see them kind of.
We kind of have this network.
We all sort of know each other.
Eventually, we found each other, and I heard about him.
That was his nickname, DMT Danny.
I kept hearing the stories, and I was aware of the laser, and I was aware of Pepe, the guy who was making the lasers for me.
I knew of him.
Yeah.
Right.
And I had sort of a spiritual conversation.
People were asking questions and I was talking, and I look up and I see like there's this circle around me.
Everybody pulled up their chair.
I'm like, oh shit, it became a lecture, sort of.
Right.
And that's what Danny said.
He asked me a question.
And the reason I looked at him, like, okay, he cannot possibly know that.
I wish I remember what you asked.
I don't remember.
But there's no way for you to know that if you haven't been there.
Right.
And then he asked a second question, and that's when I'm like, okay, hold on for a second.
Are you Danny?
You knew it.
One thing I can say that was kind of surprising to me is because a lot of people in the psychedelic space in general have this way of exploring these spaces that is very loose, so to speak.
So people go into these spaces and they have their experiences and then they exchange notes.
But ultimately, it's always a very shifty ground that people are trying to describe to one another, right?
So people.
Come to a conclusion about particular things like beings or spaces and things like this.
But with Zoltan, it was so obvious that not just that he exploited very deeply, but also, I mean, you know, his reputation kind of runs in front of him.
So, like, it's not like.
So, Zoltan loves stories.
He has a lot of stories.
But at the same time, there's the execution level is so high, right?
Every single thing he touches, I call him like a master pattern recognizer.
Yeah.
The martial arts, the music.
He was never taught to play the guitar.
So it's like he just understands what patterns work.
Like he just started, like what I started telling you, like he started building this property he got.
And then he was like, well, maybe I'll get into like understanding some things about architecture.
Pulls one of the most reputable architects in Vegas back from retirement, brings them into the project.
The reason I started telling you the story is because we met the guy when he was already finishing the project.
Yeah.
He told us completely unsolicited, he said, Zoltan is the most.
He's the most talented architect he's ever worked with in his life.
And I said, Wait, are you an architect?
I was looking and goes, No, I just don't understand what works.
So he gave him ideas that he never thought about.
So, like, it's he just has this one of these minds that just understands what works in terms of functionality and outcome.
And this is fascinating.
Yeah.
And this is why when he started talking about the space, usually it's a conversation between two guys like, Dude, I went to that space.
I did this thing.
Oh my God, it was crazy.
It blew my mind.
Yeah.
But it doesn't usually come from someone like Zoltan.
Who's like, on the other hand, you know, like has all these responsibilities and serious stuff and all these businesses riding on his shoulders that he has to make like serious decisions.
And somehow it all works.
And Zoltan always, if you hang out with Zoltan like just one on one, it always looks like he's just hanging out.
Like there's no effort whatsoever.
Yeah.
And I had this moment, I'm just going to share this one small anecdote.
At this moment, we're sitting with Aaron, the director of the film.
Again, shout out to Aaron Vanden.
We were at Zoltan's.
Show, we went to see Five Finger Death Punch and we're sitting there.
Zoltan is sitting and talking to everybody after the show security, other people like all this stuff happening, right?
And Aaron and Zoltan are sitting and Zoltan is telling him a story.
And then later, we spoke to Aaron and he goes, Dude, how does he have time to talk and talk to us?
And I go, I don't know.
But I'm like, Do you understand that everything around us right now, the arena, the security, everything that is happening right now, this is a machine that he built?
The buses here, everything.
Now, obviously, there's other people involved and they're obviously doing their jobs and everything.
Turning Life Into A Game00:06:04
But the mind to put everything together in a way so it's like it works like this lubricated machine.
That's all it's all done.
So somehow he put it together in a way that now you can just sit and enjoy and not worry about too many things.
Like I said, he travels with a posse of all black belts in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and a full dojo just so he gets to also train.
So he kind of thought of everything.
Yeah, how many black belts do you travel with on your tour?
The last tour we had seven.
Seven of them.
And you guys just, what, drop a mat out in the driveway and just someone carrying my mats and then pretty much I had two video guys, both of them black bass, the rigor, light guys, a black bat.
And you video the session?
The session guys.
Sometimes, yeah, sometimes.
I bet it's super helpful.
So I can train, basically.
But that's the case for the last 19, 20 years.
I always had at least one.
And as we were progressing and more crew we can afford, everybody I would hire, I would hire people who have a skill set and also martial artists.
You can expect more from a person who's a martial artist.
It's because martial arts restructures your mind.
You start thinking differently, right?
Because, you know, I started when I was a kid.
I was nine years old.
And it develops rewiring in mind, meaning like it develops a personality that otherwise you wouldn't.
And that doesn't mean that you have to start when you're really young.
You can start right now.
It still will do the same thing, right?
Because there are these moments where, okay, you have to go on the mat and fight this other guy.
So what happens there?
Procrastination.
Can you push this fight back?
No.
This is happening right now, right?
So you have to, you have to, Accept the inevitable.
Like this is going to happen right now, you like it or not, comfortable or not.
This is going to happen.
So you have to accept those things.
And if you parallel the two life, right, things happen and you have to deal with that.
Then, second, nobody can jump in.
This is not a group effort.
This is going to be you and the other guy.
So now we're going to save you.
So you have to be responsible for everything that's going to happen.
Right.
So there's a teaching in that.
And then as a martial artist, you start to, let's say, the fight starts or the match starts.
And then You know, you have to figure this out, right?
Again, in life, difficult things are happening and you have to figure it out.
You get caught in uncomfortable situations and you have to know when to fight your way out or where to tap and fight another day, right?
So, that's a skill that you will have to understand in life, you know, and a skill that my natural reaction is to figure out a way.
I have to problem solve when both mentally and physically I'm being pressured, basically, right?
That's it because it's a human chess game.
So, it's both mentally and physically intensive, right?
And then, as you master this, you start to realize that, wait a minute, I can also use your emotion against you.
Right.
And so, the uncomfortable situations will turn into, you know, advantages.
And it's the same thing in life.
That's what crisis management is.
Like, you look at a crisis, like, wait a minute, I can use this.
Right.
This is maybe a great PR moment when it looks like a crisis, but I'm going to turn this around.
So, you start to see that in martial arts, you know, what we do, it, Will develop traits in you that you can parallel to your career, to your life, because these are the same things.
But most importantly, it becomes a reflex.
Like when you have some kind of adversity, I don't think about the adversity.
I immediately go to the solution.
I don't even think about it.
So it's that element is not there anymore.
Like, oh my God.
Oh my God.
What do we do now?
That doesn't happen.
It's like the situation happens and immediately I automatically go into a solution.
And ultimately, go into how do I use this?
Whatever it is that's happening, how do I use it as an advantage?
And it becomes automatic.
If you start to live your life that way, it's a game now.
The whole thing is a game.
It's a chess game.
So life becomes this chess game of basically strategy.
And then it becomes fun.
And then once you do it for a while, you walk on a mat.
You're not scared.
It doesn't matter how big the other guy is.
It's like, okay, he's like 350 pounds.
Can I beat him?
I'm not thinking like, oh my God, I might die.
No.
It's like, can I beat him?
Is there a way?
How am I going to beat him?
Right.
See what I mean?
And so that becomes your personality.
And then that, you know, I think that's one of the reasons I became successful because overcoming obstacles.
Because it's, yeah.
Yeah.
And that's the thing.
You're looking at a situation and you look at it, it's a problem, right?
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Ordering Your Health Kit Now00:02:57
Now back to the show.
In life, like, ooh, there's a, you know, there's a, There's a problem.
I look at it like, oh, it's an obstacle I have to jump over.
It's fun.
Yes.
Yesterday, when we were sitting and having dinner, you asked Zoltan a question that I kind of chuckled at.
You asked, what do you do in your life?
Like, what do you do?
Like, what do you do on a day to day?
What do you do every day?
Yeah, every day.
Like, what's your routine?
And that's a really funny question if you actually get to hang out with him for a little bit because I've seen the switch.
So, like, yesterday, you just experienced us just talking and exchanging stories and all that stuff.
I saw the switch happen.
With Zoltan when somebody walked in the room and said something to him, one of these, like you know, in the movie moments where somebody kind of whispers something in his ear, like something happened, and you see like this immediate switch in his face, he goes, he just gets up, he get like, all right, i'll be right back, walks outside, comes back and something just happened right, something.
He just he just solved some kind of a problem.
And you never felt it as the guest, like he just walked outside, you saw something was going on.
Somebody asked something he had to, like give input, serious input.
He comes back out, Hey, and you just continue with the conversation of like, whoa, holy shit.
So there's like, there's this immediate switch of like, oh, we got to go into a different mode now.
Okay.
The warrior kind of wakes up.
And you see it in real time.
It's very interesting.
It's also why I realized that nothing that he does, at least for my interaction with you so far, is unintentional.
So when we just sit and hang out, it's like, yeah, that's my free time.
I'm going to talk about whatever is close to my heart and I want to talk about.
But he never does the thing that is unintentional.
And because of that, when he, Told me, okay, he recently just decided to come on my podcast, which is not even that huge yet.
So there was a very intentional decision.
He's like, no, I think this is important to talk about now because I never, he never spoke about this publicly ever before because there was no reason for it.
It was just, you know, and now he felt like it's important enough.
And I took that also as well, first of all, it's kind of like a check mark of like, okay, we're on the right path here.
But also, there's an understanding that something, even if we don't fully understand what it is, none of us, There's something very major that is going on that needs attention.
And that attention needs to be put on in the right way.
Not just, you know, like I see a lot of people kind of like in a lot of different communities from spiritual communities of the awakening, UAP communities, disclosure, the arising of AGI in the tech world.
All of these things seem to be like types of crescendos that are arriving and we're all in some relationship to them.
The mapping of the human mind, neuralink, all of these things, right?
And it seems like, and the truth is that none of us actually knows what the.
You know what, the real thing is my discovery, but I don't think it's coincidence.
I don't think it's a coincidence.
I think all of this is almost like the universe goes, Hey, right, pay attention.
Crescendos Across Communities00:05:18
Yeah, there's end of childhood.
Yeah, this conversation is going to get very meta, for lack of a better term.
We're going to talk about a lot of deep philosophical ideas and but also practical things, by the way.
Practical stuff, the DMT.
I want to get into the DMT laser stuff.
But before we do that, I'm really interested in hearing your origin story and where you come from and how you grew up and how you ended up here.
Origin.
So, like you, Adam and Eve or yes, exactly the snake in the garden.
So so basically, I grew up in Hungary, that was at the time it was a communist country.
So so I grew up in Hungary and um set out to be a scientist um, the.
The communists had this, you know, this idea of separating people into various castes of like.
They come to the kindergarten which, by the way, we walked to in the snow when I was, I don't know, four years old.
Five years old, that's complete normal.
The snow is taller than me and the and the kindergarten is like three, four miles away and your parents just put you out in the cold.
It's like, all right kid, Don't die.
It's that way.
Don't get lost.
And, you know, and then see you later.
That's it.
That was completely normal.
Anyway, so we have a pretty different upbringing.
You know, like, okay, here's a spear.
You go and fight for your food.
You know, it's Sparta.
And so they come to the schools and they pick out the kids and they're like, okay, you're good at this.
We're going to put you in a special school.
You could, you do good at, let's say, athleticism.
And then you go to a school that is specifically for sports.
And so they pick me out and they're like, okay, you're math, science, you know, and we're going to put you in a special school.
So I had like two or three math classes every day.
And that was my jam.
I was going to be a particle scientist.
That was what I was interested in.
In a moment, I could read, you know, instead of reading, you know, books about cowboys and Indians and everybody did, I'm like deep down in the tectonic systems of the planet and, you know, and particle science.
And that was my jam.
And then somewhere around when I was 12 years old, I had a.
Because we're sitting here, so I'm going to connect this story.
I had an out of body experience.
I had an accident, and at the time, I didn't understand what happened, but I definitely didn't look at my own body.
I hit a truck with my little bicycle.
But I had the sensation of whatever I wanted to look at, wherever I wanted to go, it was just there.
And I understood, like, whoa, something's bizarre, something's weird.
And I got up.
Eventually, I sat up.
I was in a pool of blood with a circle of people around me.
And I just grabbed my bicycle, went home.
You know, my mother, it's a communist country.
You know, that's how it works.
Like, kid, I'm bleeding out of my head.
As a kid, don't get it on a carpet.
That's it.
That's it.
You know, you can have a sword sticking out of your head and, like, oh, probably you should go to the hospital.
But you got to walk because I'm busy.
So, you know, that's pretty much how this worked.
And so I went to the library and I started to search.
And at the time, the Google search of the times were like, you're reading the books and then you have footnotes and you just simply find where.
That you know, where those excerpts are coming from.
So, I dug down the path of eventually I found books about life after death and eventually find Eastern philosophy.
So, by the time I was like 14, 15, I was knee deep into Kriya Yoga and meditation and you know, and all that.
And so, and I also had issues with science.
So, I had a moment where when I was about 15, I started to battle my professors about theoretical math, I disagreed with a lot of things, and there are.
Of practical math and theoretical math.
So, I had a conflict there while I'm researching and experiencing early days of wasn't psychedelics, so to speak, but I'm down on that path.
Yoga, meditation, it's a science, breathing techniques, various techniques.
Because that seemed to be connected to what you were, the idea that you were searching for with that near death experience you had.
I understood very early the question that while we have, you know, maybe scientists like, you know, Higgs and Einstein, and, you know, this is important.
This is very important.
Their work is really important.
Science is really important.
I was going to be a scientist.
But ultimately, the most important question all these things science is subservient of the most important question.
The most important question is what the hell is going on?
What's going on?
Why are we here who we are?
Why?
What is this?
Right?
So, if you look at science, why are we looking for science?
In one way, yeah, we want to make ourselves comfortable.
We invent things and build things to make ourselves less dependent on physical labor.
Right?
That's one reason for science.
But the ultimate reason is like the explanation of what the hell is happening.
And I felt like yoga and these mental sciences are on the same path.
This is, then try to answer the question.
And later in life, psychedelics, to me, it's the same exact thing, trying to figure out the ultimate question of what the hell is going on.
What is this perception?
How am I alive?
How am I perceiving?
Questioning Perception Itself00:04:07
Not even how I'm alive, but just the perception itself.
And why?
And why are we here?
So that's the most important question.
And so while I was having clashes with certain scientific ideas, I was also battling down this path of yoga and mental sciences and trying to figure this out.
And so, and in the same time, I was playing music, which is, you know, I was very interested in music.
And again, as somebody who's scientifically oriented, I started to understand like, wait a minute, music, everything is a vibration.
And as a musician, I'm playing with the source code.
Basically, I am playing with harmonies, melodies, and a correlation.
And if you think about the whole entire universe, it's basically simetic patterns, right?
And so I kind of understood that at that age that, okay, so as a musician, right, I am playing with the source code and also with music, I can affect you as a human.
Like, just to give a very short example, you know, I can give you a guitar riff and I put a drum beat to it.
I'm going to make this drum beat a little bit.
Shuffled, meaning that the snare will not come mathematically when it's supposed to.
It's going to be a little bit late, barely audible, right?
It's going to give you a feeling that, oh man, we are cruising.
Yeah, this feels good, right?
It's island time.
Yeah, right?
Now, I take the same guitar riff.
I'm going to put a drum beat on it and I quantize it.
So it's exactly on time.
It's going to be like, oh man, let's go to war.
Bam, bam.
It just feels like let's go.
Or I take the same snare and I push it a little bit.
Again, it's not really audible.
You can only feel it.
And so now snare comes a little bit early.
I'm giving you anxiety, physically giving you anxiety, right?
You're like, oh, go, right?
So imagine if I start to just mix those patterns within a song.
I give you an anxious verse and I release it in the chorus.
Was there a moment you can remember that inspired you to start practicing music and learning?
You know, there's the obvious cliche that music kind of chose you, right?
So I don't really have a moment.
I was always interested, you know.
I wanted to be a guitar player, so couldn't afford it.
I got a jigsaw and my parents' coffee table.
I'm like, oh, yeah, this looks good.
All right.
And I just made myself my first unplayable but very heavy metal guitar, you know.
So, you know, you had to make, you know, Eastern philosophy and Eastern life is like what we have and how far we can go with that versus a wish list of what I need to accomplish.
So, I made my first guitar.
I wanted to be a guitar player.
I wanted to, you know, I was interested, but I don't have a specific moment that ignited, like, oh, yeah, that's what it is.
What kind of music were you listening to at that age?
So, I started with British punk.
Okay.
You know, like the voice of the rebellion in a communist country game, you know, and then eventually switched into heavy metal.
And it was a purpose.
A purpose was really like it was not, you know, it was not that it wasn't illegal, but it was frowned upon, right?
So it was like a little kid.
What can you do when you're 12 years old?
You're not going to, you know, steal your grandfather's AK that he hid in the Second World War in the backyard.
You're not going to start a revolution.
You need some kind of an outlet.
Like, how do I oppose this, the system?
And, you know, the heavy metal felt like, well, this is the rebellion, you know?
So it was also, you know, loaded, so to speak, for me.
That was kind of like a, Um, of a western culture seeping in, and also if you think about rock music, was sort of a voice of the rebellion, even in the west, it was you know, it was countering social standards that they disagreed with, right?
So, you know, so for me, it was both interesting, as in playing with the source code, understanding that with playing with the source code, I can physiologically even affect how you feel, yeah.
And I've just talked about rhythm, you know, now there are major and minor scales, minor scales are sad, major scales are happy, so I can manipulate how you feel, and I thought.
Mathematical Correlations In Music00:05:23
That's fascinating, right?
Then understanding how there is a math involved with music.
These are mathematical correlations.
And beyond that, it's also geometrical correlations.
I see patterns on the guitar versus learning a scale.
I see patterns, right?
So I thought that was amazing.
And it was a vehicle for rebellion.
So I'm like, oh, this is perfect.
So I was doing that, right?
I'm doing visual art in the same time.
So I went to school for that too.
Like I have a commercial art and design degree.
And I'm battering down on the path of yoga and trying to understand what's happening.
And eventually, science started to sort of phase out of my life.
I always had the scientific approach to things, but it kind of was phased out because I felt like science is a loose explanation, a collection of ideas that try to explain what's going on.
And there's a difference between experiencing what's going on or trying to explain it.
Right.
Because I look at it, there are four kinds of people.
The reason Danny said that I finally said, okay, you know what?
I'm going to step out and I'm going to start talking about it.
What we talk about, the psychless space, I've been involved in that for decades.
There was no reason to talk about it because it's not like I needed the attention.
And I felt like the world is not ready, it's just not there yet to talk about it.
But something's changing.
There is a.
End of childhood from a spiritual perspective for this planet.
People growing up spiritually and the forecast of people.
Like there are the flower child.
The flower child that we joke around tree huggers, right?
The modern hippies who jump into the place and it's a playground.
Then there's the explorers.
The explorers are people who also jump into the psychic world, but with a scientific mind trying to.
Explore that there is something more here, something tangible, something real, because our experiences correlate and we can verify that this happened to me.
I saw this.
Did this happen to you?
You saw this too.
So then we can verify each other's experiences.
So something is real here, right?
Then there is the observers, the scientists who watch this thing, but they want to stay outside.
They more of a, they try to measure and figure out.
Without being part of it.
And then there are the civilians who have no idea.
They just have no clue that this is happening.
I don't know about NPCs, but yeah.
Well, yeah, but you know, there's different functions, right?
And I feel like that today we arrived to this moment where, you know, when there is enough attention on it and the observer class, the scientists who generally held highly as their scientists, are getting taken.
Taking a notice and getting more and more attention going on.
That's why also the laser comes in.
That's why these tangible things, where, okay, something's going on here.
And then is it not that our job is to figure out what's going on, our function in life or existence, figure out what's going on?
And when there's this space is opening, even though it takes a substance to get there, but it's verifiable real, verifiable real, then we need to explore that.
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Motivation Is Not Political00:15:23
And we're there.
And then, so not to make the full arch where I came from growing up in that country and eventually coming here, but.
How hard was it to get out of there and get to the US?
How old were you?
Took a revolution.
I mean, communism had to collapse.
There was a lot of history.
Yeah, we didn't have passports.
We couldn't go to countries that are Western countries.
We were completely aware of Western culture, but we were just not participating.
So we were sort of in a.
Pit life was, you know, the race cars were going, and we were just sitting in a pit watching the race, we're not part of it.
So, while we were completely aware of Western culture and we can AB the system, right?
Oh, like that's pretty cool, and this sucks, right?
Yeah, right.
So we wanted to get out of there, but there's a minefield, like an actual minefield on the border with trigger-happy border patrol.
You can't get out and you don't have passports.
And if the system was great, then you don't have to lock us in.
We would have stayed, obviously.
But we all wanted to get the hell out of there.
And in 89, it started to cave in.
It started in Poland, actually.
The dock workers started to strike.
That was the first crack in the system.
Like, oh, wait a minute, you can strike it.
And I remember a moment when I was very young, actually.
And we were watching TV and the one TV channel we had, black and white, one TV channel, communist propaganda, does not work on Monday, no TV on Monday, and stops at midnight.
That was life.
And so, and I remember that there is a transportation industry in America that was striking.
And then, you know, these guys were gleefully like, oh my God, you know, the capitalist system is crumbling, the bourgeois will fall, and you know, communism will succeed.
That was the propaganda on TV.
And they were showing how the Americans were out on the street with the little signs.
And I'm like, look at my dad.
I'm like, Well, hold on for a second.
So, in America, I can go on the street with a sign and yell that I'm not happy and nobody's shooting me, nobody's arresting me, and I don't disappear.
That's how that works.
I need to get the hell out of here.
Right.
And the bewildering part, like he didn't understand what I was asking.
Right.
Because they were so, they were born into that fear based system.
Yes.
Like, they were telling me, like, kid, shut up.
We're going to get arrested.
We'll disappear.
Like hyper normalization for them.
Oh, that was completely normal to them.
So they were broken souls born into this system.
They never knew anything else, right?
So they were that experiment the fleas in the jar that can't jump out.
You know, I don't know if you know that experience.
They put fleas in the jar and put a lid on it and they try to jump out and keep hitting the lid.
And after that, you take off the lid and they will never jump out.
Right.
Because they learn that that's the lid.
And so it's kind of like that broken souls that couldn't even imagine.
When I was telling to people, like, oh, I'm going to America and I'm going to play rock music, I'm going to tour the world, people thought, you're crazy.
Like that was ridiculous to them.
Like, what?
You're insane.
That's not possible.
We don't have passports.
That's just not a thing.
Right.
So I never had a doubt that I'm going to do it.
And well, obviously, it's proven that I did.
But, you know, but that was basically growing up there in 89 ish when it started to crumble and eventually collapse.
And once we had passports, then it's like everybody's like, okay, let's go.
Wow.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then you said you spent a lot of time practicing Buddhism with actual monks.
Yes.
So that happened.
So once I was in America, I came here without speaking a word of English.
So I could say like, yeah, beer, that's it.
Is it true the Hungarian language is like not connected to any of the other languages around that area?
The closest, yeah, the closest would be Finnish, but we have maybe 30 words, 50, 30, 40, 50 words, I don't know, that rooted in the same, you know, word, but not really.
Like, so we basically were nomads, like Attila, the Han, the first wave, and then the second wave was Arpad, that was his name, Arpad, the leader.
Who are Pod.
Yeah okay, um.
So basically it's on north China Mongolia, that area the nomads were coming over to right to Europe, and so that's how the Huns Hungarians, the Huns came, so we are Barbarians, right.
And then then, you know, they picked that current territory of Hungary as their home base.
So okay, we're not, you know.
So we, the European languages, we're not connected to right.
So there's like probably like 12, 13 million Hungarians in the world who speak that language.
It's a very different language.
Logistically, it's absolutely different.
How it's built, you know?
And yeah, I didn't speak English.
So I had to learn that wherever I was, I was staying in this place where somebody left a book, Sashenk Redemption.
And I had a Hungarian English dictionary and I translated this book word by word.
Wow.
Without any understanding of, you know, grammar or anything.
So I had to translate it, probably read the book like 30 times because I always started it over because it started to make sense.
And I would watch TV.
I had a little black and white TV in the room and I put on the closed caption and I could recognize the words and the pronunciation.
And once I could understand English, I would live in Barnes and Nobles and Borders and own the bookstores because they let me just sit there with a tea.
It was the cheapest version.
I couldn't afford anything else, right?
So I would have a tea and I would sit in Barnes and Nobles and just read just anything I could devour because all of a sudden I have this library of Eastern philosophy, Mesoamerican philosophy.
You know, I read Carlos Castaneda's entire, you know, work.
Three times at least, you know, and then all the books that I could never get in, you know, in Hungary.
So that was my just devouring there, you know.
And I was a seeker.
So I would seek out yogis and people that I would hear about that could do things allegedly that are superhuman.
And then I met people and I saw things that I can verify that, okay, I saw that this happened.
This is not in our current set of understanding that what can physically happen.
Right.
So I would go and meditate, and then I found these Sri Lankan monks that I spent a lot of time with, you know.
So that was parallel to everything else I was doing.
That's fascinating.
Yeah.
And you, last night, we were talking about the monk who lit himself on fire during that protest.
Dick Monduk.
Yes.
In Vietnam.
And you were saying that that was a recruiting call.
That was not sort of a protest based on the gasoline exports or anything like that.
So if you understand, you know, if you understand the The way they think, the Buddhist monks.
And it's very, very similar to the shamans or the men of knowledge, so to speak.
Can you pull up that photo, Steve?
Of, you know, Mesoamerican history, right?
When the Spaniards came and what happened there, they have a very similar way they relate to oppression.
Because, you know, the smooth seas won't make great sailors, sort of idea.
Right.
That spiritual or physical oppression will lead to your.
Most rapid development as a person.
And so, if you know that they understand that concept, if you know that they understand that concept, then you know that they're not going to get involved in political.
The motivation is not political.
And if you read the Dhammapada or any of the teachings, it's always that the meaning of those teachings is dynamic.
It's almost like.
You will understand what you're capable of understanding at the moment, and you read that same thing a couple of years from now, and it will mean something else, and that's the brilliance of that, right?
And so, there are so many of these teachings and these anecdotes that you read it, and it might mean one thing, and then later you realize, like, oh, there was a that's just a seed, and there are some amazing things in there, right?
So, if you understand how they think and how they operate, then you know that it's um, that there's a different motivation.
So, yeah, so things that what you see on face value is usually not what it is.
Right.
And that particular picture that we're talking about, you know, it's to me that was a light tower moment.
What I call a light tower moment is when you look at something and face value, this is a political protest.
And as a political protest, this picture was one of the most favorite pictures, most famous pictures in the time.
I think it's 1962 when this happens.
Can you find out, Steve?
Yeah, I think it's 1962.
Pull up the Wikipedia page about it.
And so this triggered this major event of human rights.
And so the picture was published everywhere and it was a very.
Well known picture because how the world related to this, like the shocking element of like you see these monks, yeah, motionless, right, just burning to the absolute most horrible death without flinching.
Yeah, Kwan Duke, yeah, take Kwan Duke, right, 1963, June 11th.
Okay, there you go.
So, 63, so Kennedy was president, right?
So, go back, Steve, all the time.
Well, 63, so I think Kennedy was president at the time, in June, yeah, he was still president, yeah, right.
So, this picture, this moment, right?
Because of the nature of the picture, because how shocking that is, right?
This became sort of a.
And even if you read Wikipedia, it's probably still to this day going to relate to why this happened as a political event, right?
And again, go back to how monks and how these guys actually think and operate.
Intimately understand that, then you know that this is the face value, but there is more to this.
And what I meant by a light tower moment, that this was a perfect vehicle for the whole world to see this because this picture was everywhere.
And some of us, a small percent, but some of us saw this picture.
And my question wasn't political.
My question is like, hold on for a second.
If this monk can sit there, burn to death without a blink of an eye, whatever power this human has.
Attained, I need to know and attain.
That's incredible, right?
So, some of us looked at it like, oh, I need to investigate this.
I need to get into meditation, Buddhism, da da da da, right?
Because I need to understand this is superhuman.
Yes.
Right?
So, it's a light tower moment because I wasn't the only one who thought of this.
A pretty large amount of people saw it as, most of the people saw it as a political issue.
Yeah, right.
But a pretty large amount of people also saw it as I saw it.
Hold on for a second.
How is this possible?
There's a miracle happening right there.
A miracle is happening right in front of us.
If this monk came out and says, Check it out, guys, I'm going to light myself on fire.
I'm going to perform a miracle.
Nobody would have believed him.
Everybody would question, like, oh, maybe there was some kind of an ointment or everybody would have questioned that this is real.
But because it was sort of presented as a political thing, it just kind of went through the system without being questioned.
But those of us who see the world differently, Those of us saw superhuman powers.
That if this is humanly possible, I need to know how.
I need to know how to calm my mind and how to put myself in that position that I can do this.
And now, if you think about it, at the time, Buddhism was kind of getting eradicated, and the knowledge that these guys were, you know, the libraries were burnt, and the knowledge that they attained and put in libraries were being eradicated.
So, this picture probably recruited more people to Buddhism and to this path.
And I don't even like to use the word Buddhism because it's an ism.
But more people were recruited for this path than probably anything else they could have done.
Yeah.
Right?
Wow.
Because even though there is a small percent of people who saw it as an incredible human feat, right?
That's still a huge number because the whole planet was exposed to this picture.
Can't even imagine.
Yeah, it really makes you think in real time.
It's just, yeah.
I think there's video of it and it's, I'm just, I keep trying to imagine what it's like to extend the immolation.
That's the immolation.
The immolation.
Yeah.
And, you know, and again, right there, you see something that humanly should not be possible.
No.
Humanly should not.
So, right there, this picture should trigger you and start you on a path that I need to know this.
This is absolute control.
Like, this is when your mind has full control.
And that is the point of meditation.
That is the point of the whole path that you attain that power.
When you.
You know, you have this incredible computer in your head, right?
Yes.
This mind of us, right?
And then the train of thought never stops.
So there's a constant, you know, there's always moving, right?
Steve, don't you play it for us, but don't show it on the actual podcast because it'll get us freaking copy.
No, not copy written, but it'll get banned.
No, this isn't the same thing, is it?
This is different.
No, this is it.
This is really it.
I think so.
This is the same guy.
There were a couple of more.
So this wasn't the only movie.
It could be a movie or there were a couple of more.
I thought he did it to himself on the original one.
He did, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
He poured it, yeah.
I mean, his students were there, but.
Right, right.
Oh, those were his students.
Yeah, around him, yes.
Oh, shit.
I didn't even realize that.
Yeah.
So, you know, ultimately, the point of meditation is that you have this train of thought, completely uncultivated, running free, right?
And there's this idea of mindfulness.
If you, at all times, you're completely conscious of what your mind is doing.
Think about it.
You drive home.
And I ask you, like, what did you see on the way home?
What roads you took?
I probably don't remember.
You just autopiloted home, right?
So that means, like, that's a simple proof of you were like, took your half an hour, let's say, to drive home.
For a half an hour, you were not completely conscious of where your mind was and what it was doing.
But you're saying, like, hey, you know what?
This idea popped in my mind.
Well, it didn't just pop in your mind.
Something triggered that idea.
You saw something, something triggered it.
And before this idea popped in your mind, your mind was doing something else.
And you're not aware of what it was doing.
So, the ultimate way of existence is that you're at all times completely and fully aware of what your mind is doing and thinking, and you're in control of that.
Prisoner Of Language00:06:40
Can you be depressed if you're in control?
No.
Can you have a suicidal thought?
No.
Can you have crazy thoughts?
No.
You're in control.
And so, we are not fully in control with our mind.
And so, the point of that meditation and what this.
Thich One Duke achieved is that absolute control.
Wow.
So that picture right there has so many things in there.
It's like a fractal.
Yeah, there's so many things in there.
Like you see a man in absolute control of his body and his mind.
Yeah.
And it seems superhuman.
There's a lot packed in there.
And so some of us saw that as a light.
Tower.
That's why I call it the Light Tower event.
Event when you see this and you go, okay, I need to understand this.
I need to learn this.
I need to be battling down dot road, dot path.
And how, so when you started practicing this and learning more about it, you mentioned last night that there's something you can achieve, like a certain level you can achieve in the practice of this stuff and of this meditation where you can basically like tap into this, for lack of a better term, DMT state automatically, like by the flip of a switch.
Yes.
It's a, you know, there's a, there's a, so, there, that's, yoga is a science, and there's there's a physical elements with how that you know, the kundalini, which is basically a spinal fluid, moves up on your spine, and how it it triggers certain things.
But, but so there's a, there's an actual physical exercise, but you know, yoga has seven different paths, and there's Kriya yoga and there's various forms, but it all goes to the same spot, right?
You have um, you have a narrator right, and this narrator is by basically explaining to you the world as you're moving around, or You know, it's like, did I close the garage door?
That's technically a voice in your head talking to you.
Okay.
So, if the voice in your head is talking to you, that is bound by it's in a prison of the language.
That voice will never say anything to you that's not been already spoken, invented.
Sure.
Because it is using a language.
And you're a prisoner of that language that you're speaking.
Because everything.
And so, this voice will talk to you in that language.
That's one issue.
The other issue is that we have a built in automatic filter.
An automatic filter is that you have the base operating system, which is the survival of the individual, then the survival of the species, and so forth.
And there is a hierarchy of what's important.
And so the most important part is you to survive.
That's the red telephone of like, hey, you're in danger, run or fight.
So there are those things.
And everything else, there is almost like there's an equalizer on what's important, what's not important.
So let's say you're sitting in an airport and there's a million people talking, you don't hear anything, just noise.
And now, somebody's going to say the word podcast.
You'll hear that word because it's important to you.
But you didn't hear any of the other words.
If you bought a new car, you'd start driving it around and you start to know it's like, man, everybody has a car.
Well, the number of those cars didn't change.
It just wasn't important to you.
So, what it means is that your mind actually deletes information that is seemingly not important to you.
You perceived it, but it deletes it.
Save energy, right?
Correct.
And it's just a lot of data.
Yeah.
It finds it not important.
Now, here's the problem.
So, you have two elements here.
One, the voice that's processing everything is in English for you, right?
So, you're a prisoner of that language and the boundaries of the language.
And then there's also a filtration system that you're not even aware of.
You don't even know what was deleted.
You drove home and a lot of things happened that you didn't see.
Because you saw it, but I shouldn't say you didn't see.
You saw it, but you didn't register it.
It's like I noticed sometimes, if there's ever a route you.
Are used to driving like on a daily routine, and you're driving from here to there, whatever.
And then one day you decide to walk the same route, all of a sudden it's a whole new world, right?
Like, I never saw this building here before, you know what I mean?
Now, the question there is that okay, so I have the filter system that takes out information that might have been important, but I did notice, right?
And everything that is described to me, my mind is kind of speaking to me in English.
How do I get out of this?
And that is the science of yoga, that is the meditation.
Let's get out of the filter.
Let's get ahead of the filter.
Yes.
And let's do nonverbal communication versus verbal communication.
Right.
And a way I could prove that to you, I could point at certain things in this room.
And if I ask you to tell me what I'm pointing at, right?
Literally, we can do that.
So go for it.
Microphone.
Danny.
Cup.
So what's going to happen?
Too much.
I'm going to outrun you, right?
Yes.
Okay.
You still saw what I point at and you knew what it was, but you didn't have time to formulate the word.
Right.
Right.
Because that takes a microsecond.
You have to reach in to the library, grab the word.
Your hard drive has a speed, right?
But your attention moved faster.
So, So, your attention moved faster than your language could possibly move.
So, is it possible to see and perceive things faster than you can formulate the word?
Yes.
And you knew what I was showing.
You perceived it, you just couldn't say the word.
Right.
So, with that, imagine if you meditate and your language, you know, like your mind is speaking to you.
That whole idea to outrun that, you can't engage.
You have to kind of like do a Mayweather boxing style.
Like you're just stepping away from the punches.
It's trying to talk to you and you're stepping away.
It becomes a game of the mind is trying to talk to you and you're not engaging.
And eventually you achieve that silence when it stops talking.
Right.
And then the first step of spiritual realization is a self realization when you have this moment when you realize that the witness, you're watching, you're the witness and you're watching your mind trying to.
Talk to you.
And then out of Sunday is the moment of hold on for a second.
If I'm watching my mind, then I'm not the mind.
Watching The Mind Awake00:02:12
And who am I?
And that's a very profound moment of one of the major steps in spiritual processes when you realize that, like, whoa, I can watch my own mind and processes from a different perspective than who is the watcher.
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Right.
Right.
And so these are the two.
So that's one step.
Like I was ahead of the language.
Separating yourself from your mind.
Yes.
And I was out of that.
And then so there are techniques.
There are physical techniques.
There are mental techniques.
You know, the mantras, little songs or mandalas, very complicated pictures that you look at.
There's various techniques and tools that.
You know, that various people use to achieve this.
But you can play piano or do jiu jitsu because you're not thinking.
Why are you doing jiu jitsu?
Flow State Without Thinking00:07:53
Are you playing guitar?
I'm not thinking, did I left the stove on?
My mind is kind of in a flow state.
So that can be also meditation.
That's kind of the base of tantric meditation, tantric Buddhism, where anything can be a meditation as long as your mind shuts up, as long as it's not.
So that's one.
Second is that getting ahead of that filter, getting into that mindset when you perceive all and you get to decide what's important versus the routine of you drove home, you don't even remember, right?
The filter was down.
If I didn't tell you to watch the red cars, You don't know how many there were, but when I told you, watch the red cars, now you're aware, right?
So, we are in charge with that.
So, these are all practices, and then comes psychedelics.
So, how do you, without psychedelics, turn that filter off?
That's basically the process of meditation.
The first step of the process is stopping the language, the language first, the language first, like you kept.
So, that's part of it.
Got it.
Okay, I understand.
Because once the language is there, Right, then your communication is verbal now.
You're inside the box now.
You know, now you can't.
Well, and here's the thing like, about composing music, painting pictures, right?
Um, doing any sculpture.
I'm gonna give you a really good example with that because you can't make mistakes there.
So, okay, so if I, you know, if uh, like.
Everything I see the view that everything is possible, and when I'm talking about everything is possible, is there's a potential.
How to make a light bulb work that that potential was the same a billion years ago than it is now, we just didn't have the technology or the need or that you know.
But how it works is the same.
If time travel exists, that exists right now, we don't know how to do it.
That doesn't mean that there's no answer to that, there's a way to do that.
If we need you know nuclear fusion on a room temperature.
If it's possible, it's possible right now.
We just don't know how to do it, but it's possible, right?
And it's the same thing with art, sculptures, painting, music, right?
All that.
So I'm not really inventing anything.
I'm just reaching and I'm more like discovering.
Or I just bring something into this space and manifest it, right?
And I would say this exercise of like if I gave you a pencil and say, okay, draw a straight line, you can execute that.
Draw a circle.
You can execute that as pro, as perfect as you can, okay.
A triangle square, a sine wave yes okay shine, wave everything.
Okay cool, Mona Lisa, i'll draw the Mona Lisa, everything that needed for that you executed.
You all the elements that is made of you executed, and I can see that you have full control over the pencil.
Yeah right, and so there should not be a problem to draw anything, To paint anything, right?
And what that is, it's about you getting into this flow state, making that connection with that potential, like the muse, creating a bridge, right?
And holding that vision.
Like you're not painting the Mona Lisa.
And it would be to the most obvious when you're making a sculpture.
When you're making a sculpture, if you made a mistake, that piece of stone is gone.
You can't glue that back.
Right.
Okay.
So you have to have a full vision of what.
You're about to do.
Right.
And so that is the process, like getting into those flow states when you can create this bridge.
And the reason I'm bringing this example, because that's kind of what happens in meditation, right?
That I'm getting to this flow state when I have a bridge to the ultimate potential.
And I'm just giving you the example of how it happens when I compose music.
I have to hear all the instruments in my head to write the song.
I have to be able to do that.
I have to create that bridge.
If I'm making a sculpture, I have to see that sculpture in my head and hold that vision in order to make that.
So I'm copying what's in my mind.
And what's in my mind is not mine.
Exactly.
Right?
So I created the bridge.
I am making that sculpture.
I can't make a mistake because I hit the wrong.
Chip the wrong thing, it's no longer going to be possible to make this culture.
And so that's the thing that you're trying to strengthen in meditation.
Like, how do I make my connection to this universal soup of consciousness as solid as possible?
Have you ever heard of the book called, I think it's called The War of Art by a guy named Stephen Pressfield?
Art of War, yes.
Art of War, yeah.
Of course, you've heard of that one.
There's another one called The War of Art.
He's a guy named Stephen Pressfield.
He's a writer.
And he talks about the idea of tapping into this muse.
Which is similar to what your idea is of universal consciousness, where like he, every day he basically follows this same protocol where whether he feels like it or not, he sits down at his desk at the same time every day and forces himself to write for an hour, two hours, three hours, whatever it is.
And he says sometimes he doesn't want to fucking do it.
It's the last thing he wants to do, but he forces himself to just start fucking writing for the first hour.
And then eventually, with no distractions, locked in a room with just his pen and paper, the muse will.
Start flowing through him and take over, right?
And then this creativity, this magic will start flowing through his hand.
So, what he's doing, I could equate that to well, that's meditation.
That is the process, right?
So, the difference, I guess, is that we are very specific.
When I'm talking about the reason I used, let's say, an idea was sculpture because it's so permanent.
If I made a mistake that's a permanent mistake, not even like drawing, but I can use an eraser.
That piece of stone was chipped off of that.
Rock, it's gone.
You know what I mean?
So that demonstrates how strong your vision has to be.
And I can also parallel that to your life because that's just what I do as an artist.
But I do the same thing with my life.
So when we talked about, okay, you do all these things.
Well, that's how it happens.
I wanted to raise a monster truck.
Okay, I'm going to raise a monster truck.
I wanted to work for the space industry.
I have worked for the space industry for years.
I wanted to be a musician.
Yes, I am a musician.
You work for the fucking space industry?
Yeah, Jesus Christ, doing what we can't just gloss over this.
He was the guitar player for this.
We were expecting with ZOG guitar solos.
No, it's like, look, oh my god, it started with not to take a big side road there, but yeah, for a few years, I was a consultant for the space industry.
I have been in a conversation with Anusha Ansari, was up on, you know, with who Anusha Ansari, she's an Iranian, uh, okay, astronaut basically.
Okay, and she was on the space station.
We were on the phone while I'm on the Tour bus.
My band is hanging from the chandelier, throwing bananas at each other, and I started to scream at them, like, guys, shut the fuck up.
I have 14 minutes to be on this phone call because then it's out of range.
Oh my God.
Everybody looked at me like, what?
Why did they want you to consult with the space astronauts?
Okay, I designed her spacesuit and her mission patch and all that.
So I was a designer originally that I was doing, you know, 3D movies and the shorts, you know, the story to compress the story started with.
Designing Spacesuits And Patches00:03:34
Scientists were and you know, engineers were looking for somebody who can make their visions into 3D animations so they can build certain things or get funding for certain things.
So that's why it started.
Then a friend of mine who was working on a flying car, which eventually became a flying motorcycle, which flew and in the Smithsonian Museum came to me, like, Hey, can you help me engineer or you know, at least do the representation 3D movies of this?
And I do have understanding on engineering, so I started to build this thing for them.
And I'm like, Okay, this is not going to work, right.
Like, I can see this is not going to work.
How about move this here, move that there?
So, did some modification and that made it patentable, right?
So, I'm one of the inventors on the flying, you know, motorcycle.
And we got the patent and it flew and all that.
So, that was the origin of this.
And then, eventually, they kind of sucked me into that world because they needed somebody who has the design abilities, right?
I could do 3D animation and all that.
I can design all kinds of stuff and the understanding of engineering.
So, I'm not going to do something crazy, that's something unfeasible.
So, that's how I kind of.
Got built in, and then I also did user interface design for various, you know, electronics and whatnot.
It just means like if you pick up your phone, if you think about how it works, it's already wrong.
I have to be able to guide you, I have to give you a user interface that is obvious.
That's the magic that you should not be thinking about how to use a VCR, it should be obvious, right?
To give you an example, you know, the arrows is pretty obvious, probably ancient times.
If you, you know, draw an arrow, you kind of know, like look that way or go that way, yeah, yeah, where.
You know, let's say, a stop sign is learned.
Yes, a stop sign is the color red is, is is ancient, because you will recognize color red warning, right.
So that's sort of uh it's, it's in our genetic history now.
But the stop sign itself, the shape of it, is learned.
So there's a science of what is learned and what is you know, for example, something in between.
If you are, you see, if you look at poster, if somebody's looking to the, you know this way or that way in a poster right, if you're looking in this way right, Then it feels like you're looking to the future because of the motion of the clock.
If you look the other way on a poster, it feels like you're looking back to the past.
And these subliminal stuff that, you know, that's just there.
And some of them is learned, some of them is inherited almost genetically.
Like how the birds know which, you know, which snake is poisonous.
They have one trial, they can't get it wrong once.
Right.
So if that was the case, all birds would be dead by chance, right?
So somehow the birds know which snake not.
To mess with, right?
Right.
So there's a genetic history.
So, a good user interface designer knows this that what are the things that are natural, you know, almost a genetic history, and what are the things that society taught you, right?
And how much of that you can use.
And so, anyway, so I was involved in that.
So, you helped design the spacesuit.
Yeah, well, that's just a design.
That's like, it's almost fashion.
It's not like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Not like the functionality.
Not the functionality.
But, you know, but I was involved in a lot of stuff that, more technical.
But i'm not an airframe engineer.
I've worked with them, but i'm not, you know so anyway, but I was a consultant on for them for various things and wow yeah, I think, I just, I think I just realized something about you.
Fashion Versus Functionality00:13:05
So, in terms of meditation, the way I see it is, you basically learn how to uh, quiet your immediate field to get access to the bigger field where there's more information.
Yes, and most people are just like in the immediate instance, constantly splashing the pawn of their immediate field.
They're like all the time Like the stuff that's right in front of them.
Right in front of them.
So then that's the immediate language you interact with, the words you say.
That's why everybody sounds so repetitive all the time.
And because you're constantly excited, that's where you believe the boundaries are.
That's my mind.
But if you learn different forms of meditation, what you learn is to every time it tries to get excited, it's like asking you, it's like, hey, excite me again.
And usually you just tap, right?
But then you learn to not tap.
You just wait.
And then eventually it quiets enough and you start seeing the further parts of the mind where there's like more interconnected information.
And it's actually easier to acquire some form of genius in a lot of different things because you all of a sudden see, oh.
Oh, I didn't realize that's like connected.
Oh, then you start like connecting all these things.
Right.
And essentially the ultimate path, the Buddhist path is to stay not excited forever.
Basically, till the moment that the full dissolution of the form just happens.
But the degree to which you can do that, that's the degree to which you, how far you can see into the mind space, so to speak.
Well, you create or recreate.
Meaning, what do you mean by that?
Meaning that, you know, like you, if you're on a human plate, plane, we have a language, we use all the same words, same phrases same, and i'm looking around and I take things and I combine them and and I recreate regurgitate, recycle things that already are here.
Versus if I can get beyond that, if I can shut down my language center, if I shut down the chatter right, and then I also manage to even the field filter system, the filtration which basically what we travel to these spaces, what some of these psychedelics do is is just jump over that.
It's like a shortcut, just shortcut boom, you just ride that, it just shoots you through that yeah, yeah.
So So, technically, a little bit of a cheat, but we jump over that.
But you end up in the same space where, okay, I'm not bound by the language and I'm not bound by the filter system.
So, I all of a sudden have access to things that still you didn't create it because you just bring over the potential.
You just bring over what can be, but you're outside of this regurgitated, sort of recycled human space.
You're not reusing existing stuff.
You have a space now to bring things over and have.
Original thoughts.
I'm doing it in an air quote because, you know, it's just my personal belief that you're just an antenna, right?
And let's say you bring it for the first time here.
But yeah, that's the innovation.
Manifest it.
Meaning, like, you know, we're living in this three dimensional universe that we accepted as an agreed upon reality.
And by having these meat puppets, these exoskeletons of meat puppets, I guess I can call it, that can interact with this per se physical world, I can create things.
That's sculpture.
Exist because it was somebody's idea, and then that was a non tangible, just an idea.
It's energy, sure, but it was non tangible, right?
So that was an idea.
We could argue about it like, you know, what an idea is.
Well, yeah, that's a good question.
What is an idea?
It's energy, but yeah, but it's a conscious energy.
So that was first, and then somebody through the exoskeleton that we can control, the mere puppet, will physically be capable of bringing that into this world.
The same way that I need this body.
and an instrument to create a guitar piece, a music, right?
But the idea, the melodies and all those things, the idea itself, we could argue about what that is and where it is from.
My personal belief that the number of beings in the universe is one.
There's one field of consciousness and we have a capacity to capture some of it.
Yeah.
Can you explain?
I thought it was fascinating how you explained last night, you had the cup and you were explaining there's a lid on the cup.
And through these practices, whether it be meditation or whether it be smoking DMT, you can basically lift up the lid a little bit and access that stream of consciousness or poke your head up above the water.
And you explained, I guess you had one experience with like 5 AMEO DMT where the lid just flew away.
So, yeah, basically, it's a thing about a jar, it has a top, and you're compartmentalized.
You contain and you have access to a certain amount of processing power.
Yes.
Right.
So, processing power meaning there's a general field of consciousness.
You can call it the phenomena, you can call it God, you can call it whatever, but it's just one giant consciousness.
And that's all there is.
Right.
And then we, as these beings, have a certain capacity to capture a certain amount of that.
So, we have capacity to contain or use or channel a certain amount of this energy or this conscious energy.
And so basically, that was the idea.
Like, you know, like you are the container.
We have these physical bodies, at least perceived, right?
And, you know, and I put my hand on the cup and look at that's all you got.
And then certain meditation techniques or psychedelics start to create some cracks on that cup.
So now, all of a sudden, you are connected to this universal consciousness.
And if I was to take my, you know, hand off that cup, then you are connected.
So somehow, you almost like you delete the membrane.
Can you fill the cup up more and retain some of that and save some of it?
You could grow your capacity.
So, grow your capacity of how much of that you can access on channel or on contain.
Kind of like building a muscle.
You're growing the cup.
Growing the cup.
Growing the cup.
Yeah.
So, you have a, you know, and again, this is, we're talking about something that we are using a language that.
These words and these concepts were not really used or often used.
So basically, we're forcing ourselves to describe certain things that there are not really words and concepts for.
So we're using a very rudimentary tool when we talk about these things.
That's why it's amazing when we go into the space and we can talk about things.
We both describe using language, we describe certain things that.
We saw or happened or experienced, right?
And that's the amazing part that you know, we're giving you an 8 bit version of a 256 bit experience, kind of all right.
So it's like it's a crypto punk of what actually happened, right?
So that's generally the issue that when we're talking about these things, I'm using words and concepts that I'm kind of forcing, they don't do it justice, yeah.
Yeah, they don't.
But for the lack of a better explanation, or, you know, I could say that the point is to crack that lid open or take that lid off.
And, you know, the worst part of actually coming back from that space is understanding, like, I'm getting dumber by the second.
Yeah, that's what you were saying.
Right.
Like, I feel it, like, man, I understand everything.
I'm right here.
And then you have to come back.
And then you're getting dumber by the second because as you're losing that connection or you're losing that access, is like.
Well, I've never met anybody dumb who's Done a lot of DMT.
Everybody I've ever talked to who does a lot of DMT, they're super fucking smart.
Well, it's relative.
Dumb compared to what?
And it's one of those things.
But I think, in general, with all contemplative practices from meditation to psychedelics, any seeking beyond the immediate space that we're familiar with, the best part of it is the practice.
Like the difference, the main difference between the Eastern way of doing things and the Western way of doing things is then the Eastern way of doing things, the emphasis is fully on the practice and the experience of it versus the theory and the stuff that you believe about it, right?
The dogma, whatever it is.
Sure.
You might believe all the stuff about Jesus but be nothing like Jesus.
Yes, and you might believe nothing about Jesus but be exactly like Jesus, just by understanding certain things about life, about experience and the point of you know well, in vipassana, for example, the main, the main point, is to keep your lid open as long as you possibly can and you don't resist and you don't push, and then what you watch happening is that all these little wiggles that trying to convince you that something is important right now.
Eventually, when enough time passes and that thing expresses itself fully, you realize it wasn't.
And then there's only so many times this can happen to you before you realize.
Wait, wait, wait.
Go say that again.
All the little wiggles.
Yeah.
So the little wiggles, what I mean is that all these little things, all the little convictions you have of like what you quote unquote must do right now, right?
You're like, you sit there.
We can make it specific.
You sit there.
You just basically, you know, you scan your body in a particular way.
You're trying to do that and thoughts constantly interrupt, right?
Like, oh, I got to itch this place.
So that's a simple one, right?
Everybody familiar with that.
Okay, well, what happens if you don't itch?
So the conviction in the immediate moment, the mind goes like, oh, the world's like, I got to itch.
Like that's not a what if.
Like, no, we got to itch right now.
Okay.
And then you practice like, okay, well, then let's stay five more seconds.
And then you wait.
And then eventually that itch goes away like it never existed.
And that feeling of complete conviction that you have to itch goes away with it.
So, this sounds like, oh, that's just like an itch.
Well, everything is like this.
The thought of like, oh, whoa, I got to call this person right now.
Cause I don't know, like they're going to get upset or like all these stories you have, right?
Okay.
I mean, listen, if it's important and they need to get a new house to fix something, okay, I get it.
But you don't need to panic about it.
But usually, most things are not as important as we believe they are.
Yeah.
And the point is that the stress that is created in our bodies because we are convinced that we have to do X or Y. Are actually a much bigger problem than any X or Y.
So basically, what you practice is how do you let things go, literally?
Not in terms of how do you not push, not pull?
If something is pleasant, how do you not get attached to it?
Like, oh, I want more of that.
Or if something unpleasant happens, how do you not immediately recoil and try and push it away versus like, hey, you can fix it if it's uncomfortable, but you don't need to freak out about it.
It's like, okay, how do I just stay with it for a second?
That's really the main practice.
Now, from that simple practice, you start understanding that really it's The concentric circles, the fractal of life, everything is like this.
So, when you try and get to like a solution or to something complicated under pressure, you can be more or less successful in it, but you will for sure be more successful in it more of the times if you can have a more quiet mind, a mind that is not constantly trying to compete with a million ideas of what's important, what's not important.
If you know how to quiet that pond, the right ideas find you immediately.
It's almost like as obvious as I just got to pick up this cup.
Yeah.
Versus all these competition that happens in your mind.
So, I think that ultimately, when you're looking at all the practices, meditative practices, and the psychedelics, the lid part is just the realization that your immediate space is not everything.
And most of the time, you don't have to make as much effort to achieve things as you think you do.
It's more of just your neurosis.
I never know how to pronounce that word.
How do you say that word?
What is the word?
Neurosis.
There you go.
The hungering guy is.
Yeah, that's the Hungarian guy.
Yeah, correctly.
Neurosis.
So, your neurosis is basically the thing that really convinces you that something is wrong, when in reality, you could have just relaxed and not say anything.
So, this is like, this is actually a perfect example right now, right?
So, it's making you like basically, this is basically you're comparing something like myopia of the mind to the forest or the trees.
Perfect example.
I just want to say this was super interesting for me.
I'm watching you guys talk, and every single thing you guys are saying is so fascinating to me.
And I'm like, ooh, yeah, I have like, I want to say this thing about it, right?
And then I was like, okay.
Neurosis And Myopia Of Mind00:15:40
But then you just wait a second.
And then, oh, it was expressed.
I was like, oh, perfect.
But imagine how much this happens in life, right?
Where you just kind of like, oh, I got to do this.
I was like, well, what was your goal?
Your goal was that that idea would be expressed.
Well, it was just expressed.
So don't worry about it.
Right.
Yeah, just relax.
Just relax.
But that is very difficult to do because we always want the self expression.
And we want to, in some way, to existence is already implying you there.
And if you can be comfortable with not being implied, the degree to which you can be comfortable with not being implied is the exact degree to which you're free.
Because if you're okay, if it would be completely to dissolve into the background, that's essentially nirvana.
You just, it doesn't matter.
You just kind of float there.
Now, given that's a, That's a very difficult thing to achieve because you know, but that's really that that is the ultimate seed of the ultimate path where there's really you can enjoy whatever happens and you can, you know, you can go through very difficult times when they do happen.
But this the extra suffering on top of it with all the inner struggle of the mind doesn't actually have to be there and you can just let it go.
It almost seems so counterintuitive to the way uh civilization is going, right?
Because like everything we do, like everyone is just in such a rush to get done.
You know, and it's like, to what end?
That's what makes technology advance, that's what makes things more convenient, that's what makes more money, and like that's what's pushed our society so far, like to where it is now, to where we literally have self driving cars and headsets where you can fucking fuck other people across the world on, and like all this crazy shit.
But that's a great example.
Like, in a company, there's never even when they say, uh, uh, you know, they have an upward driven trend, right?
But when Like a company cannot stand the idea that there's a downwards trend of some sort.
Like there's a flux in everything, right?
So, if over 20 years the company always makes money, but some years it goes a little down, the year that it goes a little down, everybody are losing their minds.
Yes.
Why?
You know what I mean?
Like it's just part of a natural flow.
Like if the company is constantly losing money, it's just not working.
Okay, that's a different story.
Yeah.
But if you can have, like you said, the myopic nature of it is a perfect, perfect way of describing it.
It's if you can just relax around the Downwards trends, which is literally in everything.
You can't escape it in stock market, in natural processes, in your life.
Sell, Go buy, Yeah.
And again, it's okay.
Do the line.
Exactly.
No, and this is why I keep saying, you know, I'm like, I love technology, but it's absolutely true that if we have everything and yet we still can't enjoy it, what's the point of having everything?
Yeah.
It's finding that balance, basically.
So I think that's what we were talking about is the end of childhood.
For the end of spiritual childhood for this planet is coming.
That's why these conversations and especially exploring these spaces, we may be talking about psychedelics and DMT, is coming because what you guys right now talk about or talking about is this chaos, what's happening on this planet.
This chaos comes from a very simple place.
Again, none of us know.
What the hell is going on?
What is our purpose?
Why are we here?
What is it we're supposed to do?
And in that chaos of not knowing what we're supposed to do is where all this happens.
Let's build this.
Let's build that.
Like there are obvious things that we as humans, we're trying to get away as far as possible, let's say physical labor and difficulties.
So we build machines and we build help that alleviate that necessity.
Now, eventually, we're going there when human labor will be completely.
Eliminated, right?
Or most of it will be eliminated.
AI and technology and robots will do most of those things.
And when that happens, that will be a massive change how this planet behaves.
Because once human labor is unnecessary, that will crush completely the financial systems.
Because if you don't work, how do you afford the things that are being produced?
And so that will completely change how money and finances and everything works and how society works.
Also, It will give you the freedom that now you can do really whatever the hell you wanted to do because your physical label is not necessary.
Also, the exploitation of that will have to end because we don't need you to, you know, seed and harvest those, you know, I don't know, rice crops or whatever the hell, or you don't need to go and mine because robots are doing that, right?
So, that is coming, that is definitely coming.
And but there's the spiritual side of that, like that we're going back to the times where you know the great philosophers from ancient times when we they had the time to sit around and think about.
What the hell is going on?
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
And so, so I think our society, our species, I should say, is going back to that point where we, we will, what we're doing and core is what, what, what we're talking about, what our connection is, like me and Danny, you know, and a bunch of people who are in this space talking about is like, okay, there are answers in that space.
And, and, and humanity, the entire species needs to figure this out.
That, because again, There's science.
Is science important?
Yeah, but what science is, is basically looking for answers for the same question.
Why are we here?
What's going on?
Or if you just think about it, if science is looking for explanations, well, thanks, you explained how it works, but that doesn't give me the answer why am I here still?
Right.
Right.
So if you can scientifically explain how I exist or scientifically explain the processes and my biology and all that stuff, cute, awesome, yay, right?
But still did not answer the ultimate question what the hell is going on?
Why are we here?
Why is this happening?
The way that science is done now, I feel like it basically decided that there's one modality to understand the world.
Yes.
So the original question was always what is going on, right?
And then people came about, went about it in different ways through religious, religion, philosophy, fill in the blank.
Science came along and it was another way of coming at what's going on.
But it produced a certain amount of tangible goods through that method that kind of verified it on a different level because it made something that everybody can see regardless of their inner seekings.
Like they just, oh, it made a camera, it made this and made that.
And it is a very.
very strong tool.
But I think what the confusion became then is that that is the ultimate modality where of course it isn't.
So like I always say that science?
Yeah, well, capital S science for me in the grand scheme of things has to be just the enterprise of human understanding.
That's it, which should include all the inner science, which is like what it's like to be you, what it's like to be a society.
It has to do with everything that is contained within what we call existence, including experience and everything else.
So contemplative science is part of science.
Capital S science.
And it's only when we're going to start understanding that it's one project and bringing it together.
So, like the technical stuff, but also the hard problem of consciousness.
Like, what is actually the connection between consciousness and all the technical stuff and how it works?
And what Zoltan was alluding to is that we just started Code of Reality Inc.
So, I guess it's just in its infancy.
And I asked Zoltan to be on the board of directors just to kind of help guide the process.
He has a lot of experience, both in building things, understanding what works.
And our ultimate goal.
It is to basically bring as many smart people from all the possible domains together to work on this problem without feeling the pressure of either being ridiculed or like we want to create a coherent picture of what it's like to have what we call capitalist science.
So, like the human, the enterprise of human understanding.
Well, not institutionalized, more like how do you create a container for people to come together?
There's already things, by the way, this is not necessarily that.
So, there are scientific endeavors that are doing it in that way or starting to do it in that way.
Santa Fe Institute are doing that.
That's a known thing.
They bring interdisciplinary minds onto a project.
So, if they have a problem in engineering, they would still bring philosophers or even musicians to think about the problem together because there's certain understandings from other domains that are much more holistic if you approach it that way.
Now, and those are very important things.
We want to create something that will put even a bigger emphasis on the fact that, hey, you bring a neuroscientist, a physicist, A really like experienced psychonaut, yeah, work together to understand because I keep hearing these like people think they're somehow domains shouldn't be talking to each other.
They'll say, Why are you talking about your experience with DMT from the perspective of physics?
I'm like, What do you mean?
Like, what, why wouldn't I?
Like, yeah, it's part of whatever's going on, right?
Like, yeah, but that's something that has to do with the mind.
It's like, Wait a second, yeah, is whatever the mind not somehow related to everything else that is physical?
And this is super smart people, and they keep that there's this confusion that somehow there's this.
Separation because of the domains that we've created in our minds.
No, that's biology.
It has nothing to do with physics.
What are you talking about?
Of course, it has to do with physics.
We just don't understand that connection.
So, we want to create a container for people to express themselves in that environment in a way that will build towards a common goal versus just having like a patchy kind of interaction online that sometimes maybe somebody will stumble upon some information somebody else did in a different domain.
We want to bring it together.
And there's also, by nature, this thing, you can't really study this thing with the scientific method.
Which one specifically?
With the DMT, with the DMT experience and with the laser.
Well, I mean, Gallimore's trying to define science, right?
Right.
So, reductive science, like the reductive method of solving or figuring out what the fuck is going on here, right?
I don't agree.
I think it's just broader.
So, I think it's just like how wide the ontology you include.
So, right now, if it's.
You can't actually put it in a fucking scale and weigh it.
You might.
Right.
But you're talking about science when we look at science from the observation point of I major.
I measure and I verify processes and see if it's repeatable, right?
Yes, exactly.
But here's the thing is it repeatable?
Yes, because we are going, regardless of the method, regardless of what way, and it is a chemical process.
So this is scientific.
Something happens that a molecule gets introduced to your mind, and out of a sudden, it switches something on that I can access spaces that otherwise are inaccessible to me.
And when an other person, and many of us, you know, doing the same thing, and then we can talk about verifiably, The same thing that you see the same things in that place, right?
Even if you, even as a scientist, you go, well, you guys all hallucinating.
It is pretty strange if you're hallucinating the same things.
So it needs to be explored, right?
So, you know, what the science looks at things like it's science if it's repeatable and verifiable.
Well, you know, we can talk about a lot of psychonauts and they're going to tell you, draw you the same, let's say, beings that they saw, the same places that they saw.
Right, so it's verifiably verifiably we have similar experiences, so that means we absolutely, as a species, we need to explore this, right?
Beside, you know, your body generates DMT, right?
So your lungs and your mind is manufacturing this to begin with, so crazy, right?
So, you know, so, so needs to be now.
If, if I just go from the individual perspective and say, okay, um, I'm in a space and I am seeing structures, incredible structures, like, like.
Incredible, complicated, cathedral like structures, right?
Where the Notre Dame is a child's toy compared to what I'm seeing.
Okay.
Then, you know, let's say, if, let's say I'm hallucinating.
All right.
Let's go with that, right?
If I am, then clearly my mind is capable of creating such complicated structures that was before unknown to me.
If my mind can imagine these incredible things on its own, that means I need to step out of the way and let this mind roam.
And create and bring these things here.
Or I am going to something that exists, something that is tangible.
And this is when the scientists drop off.
Like, oh, you know, we don't.
But if I can go back to the same places, which I can, I've been mapping this for over a decade, and going to the same places, have familiar places, and then we have conversations with people who are also going into this space.
That's what I mean, like childhood ends.
This conversation is now out in the open.
I haven't been talking about this, but I am because now a lot of people start to understand.
So we have common references.
If 15 years ago I told you or told anyone this, they would look at me like you're crazy.
We have to have a common reference.
Now, enough people being in this place when we have common references, there's a common library.
Even words that we use, people talk about the machine elves.
Yeah.
And everybody knows what you're talking about.
Whoever been in that place.
That came from Terrence, right?
Right.
But the thing is, when you have many, many, many people saying the same thing, then it's like, okay, there's something to this, obviously.
Right.
If that's the case, then these places we're going to are more likely to exist than not.
And what would fulfill the scientific question here?
That if we can talk about the same place completely independently, rescribe it to each other, many of us, and it aligns, it's parallels, then absolutely we need to explore this.
So I think it's an absolute necessity.
That's why I said there's four cats.
There are the flower childs that jump into this space and like, woohoo, colors and explosions, awesome.
There's that.
Then the scientific minds, the explorers, like us who go into this place and look at it.
What's happening here?
We're going in there with a purpose and a question and explore.
And then there's the scientists who would like to measure things and looking from the outside.
And there are research on this, right?
But they're not researching it with using the molecule.
So you cannot have the experience.
So that's, you know, it's like that's a difficult, that's the barrier right there.
And there are the unaware who have no idea.
To be fair, DMTX is doing that, but I would say they are one facet of a much larger attempt at this.
And it shouldn't be limited to the way they're doing it.
Physics And Reality Check00:12:08
And I think the main difference to what you said about it, I guess you can't quantify it.
That's because you didn't have a wide enough of a sample of it.
So it was repeatable, but not repeatable enough, right?
Now it's repeatable enough because you have more people doing it more often and they can actually.
So you had Dennis on, right?
The legendary Dennis McKenna.
Yeah.
Whatever, wonderful book that he wrote about.
Oh, The Brotherhood of the Screaming Abyss.
Incredible book.
Here's the thing.
What happened to him was particularly interesting to me because he was the one experiencing this incredible opening of whatever happened to them in Lacherera.
And it is also the thing that made him recoil and go a different route into science.
And then somehow through science, he acquired this separation factor that I feel that when you train in proper science, it happens because you basically are trained to be less and less fooled by your own.
Inadequacies and thoughts and all of that stuff.
But it's almost like you're now being convinced that there is no place to your convictions and all the stuff that you're experiencing.
And the truth is that everything we do is just conviction in the aggregate.
Everything we do, like I always say, especially in neuroscience, is some consensus between what we can see that the brain is doing at the time that somebody's reporting something.
And then we just collect that data over many, many individuals.
But that's like cash value is from somebody reporting something to you, right?
So, if you have enough of a sample, and this is where things like the code actually come into play because they're repeatable enough for you to potentially try and actually probe in a way that you would anything else in science.
It's not like when you go and see the beings, it's like, well, describe to me the being.
Well, it was a big spider.
Wait, was it purple?
No, it was black.
Interesting.
Okay.
But you saw a purple one?
Yeah.
Hmm.
I wonder how many years it would take us to reach any kind of consensus this way, right?
Especially because we know that the worst kind of data point on the planet is hearsay by a witness, right?
So it's like, okay.
You have to be able to record directly from the brain, right?
But if you have something as concrete as the code, you can potentially do like perturbations to it, see if actually something changes.
Now, it might pan out to a different degree and not pan out to other degrees, but that gives you the freedom to actually exploit it in that way.
Now, to be fair, again, you know, specifically with the code, people like Gallimore, in a very good faith way from a scientific standpoint, say, well, you know, I do think that with all my expertise, I'm saying that yes, there are hallucinations that should be able to be mapped on this perfectly as you describe it.
Fair enough.
Let's explore that proposition.
There must be ways.
The question should never be like, can you explain it away with science?
It should be, okay, is there a counterpoint to what I'm saying?
Yes, great.
Let's explore how we can discern then whether it is what A or B.
We should come up with experiments to make the discernment versus saying, can science explain it in the way that we perceive it currently?
Sure, but we should explore how it explains it.
And maybe what we should question is certain assumptions that science makes about the world.
Because I think at this point it's pretty clear that at least physicalism, As it's perceived in the most naive way of it, which is like there's just physical matter and then they're just oscillating from physical matter.
I think that's pretty clearly out.
So I think it was really interesting what Gallimore said on that video where he was explaining what you explained on the podcast was this term called objecthood.
Yeah.
So it's like this idea of, and correct me if I'm fucking this up, but like you see, I see this can, right?
And I know it's a can because I've seen this a million times before, right?
And I know it's on the table because I've seen this table a million times before, blah, blah, blah, blah.
But if it's the first time I've seen this can, I'm going to be like, whoa.
Like, it's going to freak.
I'm not going to know what to think of it because I don't have any sort of frame of reference for this can, right?
To know that it's real and it's sitting here on this table.
Just a small correction I think matters.
It wouldn't be the can, it would be a can that is of a completely different gestalt.
So you have what's called gestalt.
So they're basically frames, right?
So you have this is the way we perceive the world at the moment.
You can think of this level of qualia for each and every one of us as a gestalt.
So it's like, okay, that.
It has a quality to it that I recognize that I never think about because this is the water ice women.
But this can is part of that gestalt.
It's like, I know.
So if another can appears with a different writing on it, you're not going to freak out.
It's like, why does it say these letters?
Well, what happens in DMT, which is why it's so interesting to so many people, that there's no argument about that.
The reason it's so unique is because it's a completely different gestalt.
Like it's a completely different thing that you've never experienced before if you've never done it before.
That would be equivalent to that can you're just describing.
But even in that space, And this is where it gets kind of dicey because, on the one hand, Gallimore's point is the reason that DMT is so interesting from a neuroscientific perspective is that it seems to be extremely coherent.
And we know the brain is not just receiving like a camera, but it basically does a lot of guesswork according to what it already knows to happen.
So it's projecting from the inside.
So if something immediately comes to you that you've never seen before of a completely different flavor and it's super coherent, Well, that's difficult to explain in neurological terms because the brain is not just, again, receiving like a camera.
It should have some form of inner representation of it.
With the case of the code, and this is why it's very unsatisfying because you kind of have to see it to really understand that point.
There's, when you project the laser on the surface, the reason that it's very difficult to postulate that it's somehow the result of the light hitting that particular surface in a particular way combined with a really psychedelic substance, because whatever you see, Is not even on the surface.
It's like, it's almost like you're now seeing a subspace that is hovering within our space and it goes infinitely into the z axis with extreme coherence.
And it doesn't kind of dissipate as you would expect a random pattern to be.
It's a completely coherent framework.
It's its own gestalt and it's completely coherent on its own.
When your eyes are open, once you, is not, so correct me if I'm wrong, I've only done DMT.
Sure, sure.
So when you see stuff, is it typically in 3D space when your eyes are open?
Or is most of the stuff you see with your eyes closed?
You mean in DMT with general?
Yeah.
It depends what you do.
Like anything.
Yeah.
Like remember when you saw the console?
It's a choice.
You can choose.
It's a choice.
Yeah.
You can choose both.
So, some of it would be this is why it's dicey because some of it would be mapped on as a result of the extreme condition that your brain is under.
And in that way, your brain might be transforming some things you already see and transforming it into something else.
But the claim that we're making is there's other things that are not the result of that.
They actually exist and you become aware of them.
So, now the question is how do you discern?
How do you make that discernment?
Yeah.
Which is where the conversation around the word.
Objecthood comes in.
Gallimer's correction, just to be super fair to what I said on your latest podcast, was that Anil Seth is using the word objecthood not to describe some objective component of what real objects would have.
Now, it's not actually what I was saying, but I understand his correction because maybe it came across as if I was saying that.
So I'm not saying that objecthood, that quality that Anil Seth is talking about, is somehow an objective component.
And this is how we can discern what's real and what's not real.
But it is a good enough parameter to use to triangulate what might be more that thing that just exists and we become aware of versus the thing that is like a hallucination, where it's just something your brain saw that is now incorporating into a larger cognitive structure that it's making by itself.
Because, for all intents and purposes, the one point that is constantly being missed is what is physical matter?
Because, in the end of the day, even if it's all mind, even if it's idealism and mind is the most fundamental thing, whatever you picture about the world, something is regular enough that you can't walk through the wall.
And I actually asked this when I was out with Gyalmo, we were meeting face to face, and I asked him, But what is in the context of everything you know, right?
How would you define what's out there?
What is this physical thing?
And he goes, The multi billion dollar question, man.
That is the question.
Because even if you do believe that everything is spiritual stuff, ultimately, something is happening that prevents you from going through the wall.
Yeah.
And that part, there's a rule set.
And that part is constantly being overlooked by modern neuroscientists, it seems, that they're saying, no, but it's all, you know, it's all mind.
I'm like, sure.
But we have to talk about what is it that gives it this quality of being physical.
Because there's clearly a difference between that and what I'm, Like, there's a reason why it's so difficult to manipulate the physical stuff, and it's so much easier to manipulate the mind stuff, right?
There's a lack of malleability there that needs to be talked about.
This is why physics has to enter the picture.
And you have to combine our understanding of physics because, yes, there are abstractions.
Nobody has ever seen an atom and all of that jazz.
Sure, that's true.
However, these abstractions help us to understand certain functionalities that we can make predictions on, and it checks out.
So, like, the reason we can build complicated things is because we understand something about these processes.
So, how do these processes then connect to what we call consciousness?
Not just from a philosophical perspective, because where DMT is, is exactly this margin.
It is the event horizon between the physical and the non physical, because it is so profoundly real and at the same time not physical.
So, it kind of, you know, like the event horizon is like that's where quantum physics and classical physics meet because it's such an extreme condition.
Extreme conditions allow us to investigate the deeper parts of nature.
DMT is an extreme condition that allows us to probe into that question.
What is the connection between the physical and the non physical?
Like, look at your dreams.
You can have a dream where your eyes are closed, but you're dreaming of the beach.
There's light on the beach, right?
Your eyes are closed, but you're experiencing in your dream a full color, the smell, the feel, and you can have even a lucid dream that you wake up from.
I'm not even sure at the moment when you wake up, like, Oh, was that real?
Oh my god, you're still almost physically affected by the dream.
What happened there, right?
How real is that, and what's the difference between right now and the dream, right?
And so, there's this idea that not proven yet, but the idea is that DMT.
Is the reason that that's the fuel for the dreams?
For the dreams, right?
That's the fuel from the dreams.
And so when we talk about that event horizon, right?
And you look at the dreams and how real is that and how real is this, right?
The only difference is when you talk about the mind's work, it's the same.
The only difference is that in this reality that we perceive, if I Move this cup and I wake up tomorrow, it will be still there.
Right?
So, wherever it is, tomorrow I come back and it will be there.
So, there is some kind of a permanence of this.
And the code has that.
Mapping Reference Light Dimensions00:13:56
Right.
That's what I meant by the code has objecthood.
It's clear to you it's there just by observing it.
So, now it's very difficult in linguistic terms.
So, to give you the, you know, people now email me all the time, obviously, with like a billion theories, right?
And there are as many theories as there are people.
Right, that's the easy part.
You can come up with all kinds of theories.
What i'm personally interested in is, what is it that we can postulate about the world along the lines of what we're talking about here with like, the connection between consciousness and physicality that is actionable repeatable, testable?
Most of it will not pan out just like in everything else in science, but my point is it should squarely fall within the purview of what mainstream science is and it should stop being this margin thing that we're doing, because it is the central substance of what, in fact, Is going on.
We have to be able to say something concretely about what it is instead of keep relying on very vague general statements like, well, the brain is a very powerful machine.
Like, okay, well, you said nothing.
Because, like, sure, you just said I have a magic wand that can do anything.
That didn't explain nothing.
So, like, what is it that that magic wand is doing specifically to make A or B or C happen and how it relates to what we can actually probe?
What, you know, I'm in the habit of talking about some of my ideas, but only to illustrate.
That there are concrete ways along which we're thinking about this.
They might not pan out, but here are propositions.
What I'm trying to do is to encourage more smart people to think about this in these terms, in serious terms.
I think the holographic principle is exactly correct.
And there is a way to map.
So the holographic principle is a principle in physics.
I think we talked about it a little bit last time.
But essentially, I want to see if we can map onto what is happening with the laser and us and the universe in terms of a hologram.
What is each component in the.
In the, in the setup of a hologram that maps onto what our real world is, because the holographic principle is one of the most promising frames in physics at the moment.
So I think it's exactly correct, which is that we are a holographic projection from a two dimensional filament.
I think we're a three dimensional projection from a, from a four dimensional sorry, four dimensional projection from a three dimensional filament, but that will take us far afield.
But I think that in in a hologram, you have the source light coming in.
It's being split by a beam splitter.
Each beam goes its separate ways.
This one goes through a set of two mirrors or one mirror.
And this one goes through a set of two mirrors or one mirror.
And then this one goes to an object, hits a screen.
Okay.
That screen records the information that the beam hit after you already passed the object.
So if the first beam comes from here, hits the mic, from the mic it goes to a screen, the screen records the information, just like in a photo.
Yeah.
Okay.
Now, the difference between a photo and a hologram is that the second beam that was split from the original beam comes from the set of mirrors from the side now and it meets this first beam.
Here, right before it hits the surface.
So it's stereoscopic.
Essentially, it measures not just the amplitude, but also the phase shift.
And that gives you this ability to basically measure more information about from all directions of the whatever it hit, the mic in this case, instead of just hitting the two dimensional imprint of the mic.
Okay.
So what I think here's one proposition of how to think about this problem, and we'll see if it checks out.
I think that we, our consciousness, whatever it is, is the, this is called the reference light, the one that comes from here.
So, I think we are the reference light.
Literally, our consciousness is a form of light.
It's a reference light that hits the source light.
It came from here.
And where they meet, the source light and the reference light.
Where's the source light coming from?
Big question.
So, that might be the source, God, whatever you want to call it.
Okay.
If you want to use esoteric terms, I don't know what the source is.
I have no idea.
Whatever started it all.
Okay.
But where they meet at the sheet, which in our case, I would say it's the bulk, which is space time.
Okay, the sheet that registers everything is the substrate of whatever physical matter is, whatever space time is.
Okay, so when this reference light and the source light meet, that instance together with the bulk they create the triangle that creates conscious moment, conscious moment, conscious moment.
It's the information being registered in real time, and I call it the pistons of consciousness like it's that of like instances of actual consciousness.
Now, this sounds super theoretical, esoteric.
Cool.
I think there's a way to map this in a way that is testable because we can say, okay, if this is the reference light and this is the, if we are the reference light, certain things would be true and other things would not be true.
Like, what are they?
For example, there would be a related angle to perception, specifically with light, so diffraction, for example, that would yield a certain kind of observation the second we get to the details of it and wouldn't yield other kinds of observations.
So if I make the turn 30 degrees, It would create a certain coherence of the image.
And if I go 50 degrees, it might not create the same amount of coherence.
Now, we have to get to the details of that.
And I need a lot smarter people than myself to actually think about that because there's a lot of math involved.
But here's an example of how you can think about this specifically.
You have to come up with a theoretical framework that would lend itself perfectly for experimentation.
And then you have to run the tests.
Ah, we tried 30 degrees, didn't work.
That must have been wrong.
As Feynman famously said, if it disagrees with experiment, it's wrong.
That's the part that I feel is missing.
You either have people.
That are so far deep into the experiential side that they simply don't care about experiment.
They just want to keep everything being whatever they think it is.
And you have the other side, the extreme on the other side, which you have this form of rigidity where people just go, No, it's only what we can verify with external tools.
That's another component of it, I agree, but it is not the whole picture.
There are certain things that we, as the collectors of data that we are, can experience that at the moment other instruments can't, and that should be taken into account.
It complicates things, I agree, because people have aspirations, ideas, confabulations.
We're not a perfect thing.
But even though it complicates things, it's the only way to go because you have to include what we're experiencing if we see that we can, you know, recruit the right kind of people that are interested in finding out what's true instead of, you know, constantly just believing whatever it is.
So you have to kind of bring it to a central point where you both take into account the hard experiments, but you also take into account our agreements of what we think is going on in that instance.
And then someone to get, but this is just an example.
I'm not saying it will necessarily pan out, but.
There are ways to think about these things in concrete ways, and I want to encourage more of that.
And I do think that actually explains quite a bit.
So, for example, if you look at a hologram from the side, like a regular hologram, right?
If you can envision it, if you notice the third, the reason I'm saying we're a four dimensional hologram and not a third dimensional hologram is because the hologram, when you look at it, it's actually three dimensional only, it's implied because it's a two dimensional sheet.
The third dimension is implied.
The fact that it looks like it has depth, right?
But there's no actual degree of freedom.
If you would be that hologram, you can't actually move in the third direction.
It's just implied.
But you can move in two degrees of freedom.
You can't walk around it and see it from behind.
If you would be that hologram, you can't, right?
But we can move in three dimensions, which means that we can't possibly.
The third one is not implied.
The third one is actual, which means that there has to be one more dimension that is implied.
And I'm claiming that's time.
The reason we cannot move in time.
On our whim, because time is implied.
It seems to be there.
The change from moment to moment that we experience seems to be there, just like the third dimension is implied in a hologram.
But we have three degrees of freedom.
So we are a four dimensional hologram projected on a two dimensional sheet, which is the bulk, which is space time itself.
Now you can say, well, the bulk is actually four dimensional.
I'm saying that time is actually implied.
The bulk is, the surface of it is three dimensional.
And again, This actually lends itself to real experimentation.
Like, is there ways to curve the surface in a way that we can see that if we do that, then time would appear to move slower or faster, depending on our perception of it, which we know to actually happen, right?
And again, this is where we can do forward or we can do forward time travel, like that's been proven.
Well, at least your perception of it is, right?
Like, you use it's like the somebody charges you $50 to move 50 minutes in the future, and then you just go in there, it's like, all right, it'll take you 50 minutes to move 50 minutes in time.
You have to.
Somehow explain what appears to us to be the case in terms of what we think the largest structure is, which is what the business of physics is in, right?
It's just that it's constantly omitting the first person experience.
And I'm saying you cannot omit it anymore.
You have to somehow explain the fact that we're experiencing things a certain way.
It's part of existence.
And neuroscience will tell you, well, you know, these perceptions, these apparent time changes in your perception, they're just in your perception.
Fair enough.
But is there a way to test for that?
Is it possible that time for you is actually moving slower, just like physically it's moved slower, closer to a mass in physics?
Is it possible that it's actually your brain is taking less computational steps?
Is it possible that it's actually moving slower because of whatever happens in your mind?
I don't know.
But I'm claiming there's a way to discern these things, and it needs to be entertained more seriously in that way.
Whoa.
I'm going to pretend like I understood everything you just said.
And then you can ask the question about time.
Is there such a thing?
Yeah.
Just the perception of it.
Yeah.
Well, that's an interesting idea, right?
The perception of time and time being a dimension.
And like, how does the dimension of time specifically relate to DMT?
I don't know.
One thing before you jump into that, I do want to say because it's important.
We just conducted the first official Magnus experiment.
Okay.
Yeah.
That, for all intents and purposes, I think most likely is actually bunk.
Like, I think it actually doesn't work.
Okay.
But here's an example of us actually trying something.
Okay.
It doesn't see, something happened there one time, actually, with my fiance, weirdly enough.
All the subjects, including myself, we couldn't see any difference.
So the experiment was we put a magnet behind the surface, we projected the laser on the surface from the other side, we smoked the MT, we looked at it.
And I thought we're going to see some change because of the if a magnet is powerful enough in the back.
Behind the surface.
So if I just have a sheet of paper, I put a magnet here, so you can't see it from here.
Right, right, and then you project the laser from this side, yep.
And then I'm smoking the empty and I'm seeing the code.
Yeah, I thought that if the magnet is powerful enough, I would be able to see some kind of a change from this side that will tell me where the magnet is, even though I can't see the magnet.
You understand?
Understand, yeah.
I couldn't, nothing, no change so far for us.
No, however, there was one instance where we had a camera from above that sees like almost like sees both sides at the same time.
Uh, my fiance, she just kind of jumped in and she just like.
We probably, Aaron got very mad.
He's like, we can't use this for them.
Like, okay.
But for the experiments that might be viable, she saw, well, she didn't see, but she, I guess, guessed five times in a row where the magnet was.
Exactly.
So that was strange because I have to admit, I didn't see any difference.
Okay.
So either there's some other component here we don't understand or she just got super lucky.
I don't know.
We have to look through the data.
But I just wanted to emphasize this because this is how it should be.
This is how people should go about this.
They should try whatever it is they think that might work.
I don't know why we didn't think of actually putting, because we had not that powerful magnets, but they were pretty powerful, like 100 pound magnets.
And we should have used more of them, like also on the laser itself to see if anything.
And we had my good friend Pablo, who's an engineer, he helped us create the rotating magnets experiment by Persinger.
He helped us create a device, who, by the way, was suggested by John Chavez.
Shout out to John, who also, by the way, invested in our film quite a bit.
So thank you, John.
And basically, the rotating magnets is something we can maybe put the laser in between and rotate the magnets and see if that does a difference.
We didn't do that.
We're learning.
The point, the larger point is there should be more of that.
We should just test this in this way.
And if it doesn't pan out, it doesn't pan out, but we're going to keep trying.
And I want to encourage more of that.
This insistence that where I feel that I mostly depart with the way that Andrew, Chooses to go about this.
Again, I have tremendous respect for him, and I, you know, we had since then really great conversations.
But where I would openly disagree with him is that there's this insistence that DMT is so crazy that there's no way anytime soon we will ever be able to make sense of it.
Encouraging Scientific Testing00:14:39
I'm saying that attitude actually shoots you in the foot.
Because if you decided that, of course, you're not going to make progress.
You have to believe that it's possible to actually discern certain things.
Yeah.
And maybe even he does think that in other ways, maybe he just disagrees with the specific way in which.
Which I'm doing it.
But this is the way I choose to go about it.
And I want to encourage more people to do that and not to get caught up in what they want to be true.
If it doesn't work out, say it doesn't work so we can proceed to the next thing, so we can try another thing, so we can all think about it together.
Well, I think one of the things that he said, which struck me, was, or one of the questions that he asked was, what makes this code any more real than anything else that you see in the DMT world, right?
Like, for example, it's closer to what this is.
It appears to be real.
It's closer to what this table is.
It's always the same thing, no matter who it is.
No, it's as real.
I'm claiming it's as real as Jupiter is there.
That's what makes it different.
Huh.
So, like, when you explained that console thing that you saw, you explained that sitting in 3D space that was anchored to the floor.
You could walk around it and see all around this whole thing that was there.
So it was sitting there.
Oh, I see it all the time.
So that would be the equivalent of.
Oh, you still see it all the time?
100% of the time.
Every time I smoke.
Every time you smoke, you see the console?
Oh, yeah.
Holy shit.
Oh, yeah.
Did I send you the.
Our Laszlo, our VR guy, he's much more than a VR guy, but he's also a VR guy.
He created a fully immersive environment with the representation of the console in it.
And it really delivers how real it is.
Now, this is like Zoltan says, an 8 bit version of the real thing.
But it delivers how real that is for me.
But that's just me.
The reason the console is much less impactful is because I don't know what to do to make other people see the console.
Oh, right.
But I can show you the code.
You don't use any sort of external devices like the laser to see the console.
The console just disappears.
No, it disappears.
It's as real as this mic for me.
By the way, the console, just a small anecdote and unrelated to, not going to be that interesting probably, but the console was doing something when we were shooting that experiment that it never did before.
Usually the console opens up and it has a lot of sections all over the room, and only the very small sliver of menus come and like follows me, but the rest of the console just kind of hovers in the room.
It's almost like the body of the console, right?
It has different sections.
One of the sections, the more physical sections, the one that is just always there, came out.
And started scanning the people who were looking at the laser.
I've never seen that before.
Yeah, it was like a plate that came off it and it was scanning them.
Like it was interested in what we were doing.
I've never seen that before.
Again, this is one of these, like, you know, trip reports.
I don't know what to do with that.
It's not a.
People say, hey, can you release the next video of the console?
Because I'm working on one.
I'm like, dude, I need to have some information there that I didn't have the first time.
And I don't have that yet.
I want to say something new.
I don't want to just keep repeating, you know, what we already said.
And if I'm not sure, I'm not sure.
Zoltan, how many times have you seen this code?
So maybe four?
Four times.
Four times.
But the idea is that eventually this will reach a critical mass.
There was a time when we had an idea of a geocentric universe, right?
And who thought that was geocentric?
The scientists.
It wasn't the workers in the field.
It was a scientist who agreed to.
So there's a scientific class agreed to something that wasn't the case.
And then came, you know, Copernicus Galileo.
There were people who thought, well, I don't think that's the case, right?
And at the time, that was the craziest idea.
It almost caused their lives.
They definitely caused their freedom, right?
And it had to reach a critical mass where it flips.
People start to be interested in this deeper because there's a critical mass of people, right?
And that's what, so that's kind of what's happening that, you know, like what Danny was explaining is a, He's actually approaching it in a very scientific way, right?
Of, you know, scientific mind will get into this space and will try to analyze it.
And that's the point of these experiments.
Is there a scientific way to prove beyond the anecdotes that there is a code?
We all saw it, right?
That's an anecdote.
And how do you physically prove that?
But eventually, there are going to be enough people to see this code.
That's what I mean by a critical mass will happen, or enough people venture in this space.
That's why I said, end of childhood spiritually, that more and more people venture in this space and their anecdotes start to.
You know, be parallel, right?
When it's just simply not, you know, I'm coming from a pragmatic, more special direction than a scientific direction, but I'm just pragmatically saying, like, you know, when 10,000 people say that, hey, man, I saw this, and our experiences are verifiable in a way that there's a mass of people that saw this, right?
Then it's not possible to ignore anymore.
It is asking for the It is asking for the scientific community to, like, well, we got to look at this.
Right.
And the whole idea of basically creating the encoded DMT TED Talks, the, you know, that a community that can start comparing notes.
And then there is enough data just alone by witnesses, right?
Then is it tangible evidence?
Well, you know, when 100 people saw you rob the bank, you probably robbed the bank.
It's just one of those things.
So, by the way, did I tell you that we might have figured out a way to see the code without the molecule?
No.
What?
Yeah.
So, David Carter, the other board member who approached me a few months ago with the opening line, you don't know me, but I've been following you for a while, which is a disconcerting one.
You probably get that a lot.
Yeah.
No, no.
He's incredible.
Carter is incredible.
So, he basically, I guess, the best way to describe it is.
Who he is is a large, he would say is an organizational expert, but I think is a large scale problem solver.
So basically, he worked from everything from government projects, software development, is big into crypto and AI now.
He understands what makes big processes work.
He even worked on some classified projects.
And he said, Look, about a year ago, back then when you reached out to me, I ordered the laser, I saw the code.
I never reached out to you, but I started basically talking about it in my circles.
And because I have a certain reputation, people listen to me.
He said, when I would go to these conferences, I would like, when we're at the end of whatever conference we are, I would like whip out the laser and start showing them.
And I said, wait, what were you showing them?
He's like, well, here's the thing.
I have a certain kind of reputation.
So this was a prop.
I was removing one more step for them to venture into.
So instead of me telling them there's this laser, I'm like, no, here's the laser.
And I would just turn it on.
It's just a simple diffracted laser.
But I was telling them, like, I've tried this.
I've seen the code and I'm explaining where you would see it.
And people got so interested because they are looking for this like next step of like understanding.
So David recently told me that I haven't seen it myself yet, but he is, you know, there's a certain, well, reputation that he has with like being accurate with what he's saying.
He said he thinks they figured out a way to see some visibility of the code with these old sensors of Sony cameras that had this night capability.
And if we string a bunch of them together, I think we'll be able to see it much more coherently.
Now, if it's true, that will automatically change the conversation entirely.
And there's also a team from Japan that apparently from 2014 was collecting data from light coming from stars.
And they discovered that they can actually discern statistically at this point pretty concretely that there's information in there.
There's some kind of a code.
There's some kind of a glyphs running in there that is not paradelia.
They can actually discern that now with machine learning.
It's not what?
Periodelia, which is your tendency of your brain to just make shapes out of nothing because your brain is really good at creating patterns.
Yeah.
So they can discern that this is not it, that it's actually real information of some sort.
So all of these things are kind of converging, but I just wanted to mention that because Zoltan keeps referring to the end of childhood of humanity.
Yes.
I really think that all of the stuff that I mentioned before, these crescendos that are all arising at the same time, the reason that you have all these very animated conversations here about, you know, God and what are these, the disclosure and all of this stuff is because something is happening that is bigger than us, but not in an esoteric sense, but in an actual sense.
It's actually happening.
And whatever it is, and the reason that I guess there's maybe urgency is the wrong word, but maybe more of an attention needed on this than currently is being allocated to it, that is an important component.
We can no longer pretend That is just a nine to five, we go to work, everything is normal.
Even the people that think of it more in terms of like the, you know, the, I think the UAP community, the disclosure is a good example is because I've had the conversations with people from that community.
And when I ask the question, have you ever considered what you're going to do the day after the disclosure?
There's always silence.
Yeah.
Because that's really the important part.
Okay, disclosure, now what?
Like, what do you, how do you envision yourself being a moment after?
You have to find a new dragon to chase.
That's exactly it.
So, it's interesting that you said about the light out of the stars because in that space, I did have that experience that it's much more than just light.
And I saw this scientific paper talking about, like, well, the electromagnetic processes within a star are much more complicated and much more than the processes in our brains.
So, is that possible that they have consciousness?
Theoretically, yes.
Yeah.
That's kind of insane, you know.
But, Well, we're talking end of childhood.
Like, look, if humanity realizes its purpose, like if that question gets answered why are we here, what we are doing, right?
That would be such an event.
Probably the most monumental one.
And it sounds to me that you're going to most likely find that answer or get closer to that answer in that space, not.
In the scientific explanation of how processes work.
The process is just a result of the much deeper right I was gonna.
I was gonna ask when you're studying this stuff and when, like you try to help more people become more aware of like, the only way to study this is to have obviously, lots of people look at it.
If you have a million people look at this thing and 900 000 see it, 100 000 don't, or to see a way to substantiate it on a screen or to send the information directly into some kind of a chat gpt, but at the same time, when you're saying, like We're seeing this code.
Like, how do you eliminate this confirmation bias that they're expecting this to see something?
Because isn't that a way to that people would attack this?
Say, look, these people are expecting this and they're already seeing something.
Like, it's not double blind.
So, that's two separate things.
One is the people attacking it, which they will.
It's just natural.
That's how you make stuff strong.
That's fine.
Right.
That's fine.
So, that's a non point for me.
People can attack it all day.
If it's real, like I always say, as Terrence used to say, it can take the pressure.
I don't mind that.
Exactly.
The second part of your question is even Gallimore, you haven't watched the full video yet, but at the end, he says.
I watched, I finished it last time.
Oh, you finished?
Okay.
So, you know how he says, which is actually a self contradicting point, which I. Alluded to in my response video, which is he says that priming doesn't have this longevity that people attributed to it with the code.
And yet he himself somehow.
Priming doesn't have.
It doesn't have this longevity.
So priming is if I give you a cold drink to hold, if you don't know me and I ask you general questions, most people would have more negative kind of things to say about the person.
Same thing with a warm drink and the other way.
That's priming.
I'm priming a certain state that makes certain general.
Occurrence is more likely.
Priming does not work with specific content, hyper specific content.
That I would kind of convince you.
If I say so, here's we.
This is easily testable.
If the if people think it's priming, take a group of people that you know for sure didn't hear about this right sure, and then tell them about elephants, inject it subliminally, talk to them about it, do all of that, then show them the laser.
Yes okay, if they still tell you they see Japanese letters, can we then agree that this is not it, Right?
So that's easily testable.
Okay.
The other point that people make, which is like, oh, but, which by the way, I've done, I've told people something else, and they came back and said, I didn't say what you told me, but I saw these weird things.
They said Chinese.
Like me, I saw the gears.
The gears that you see in the beginning.
Yeah.
But it's just the way it appears.
So, but the other point of like, yeah, but if you do make it big enough, I was like, okay, hold on.
So you're telling me that you believe that if one guy can say something convincingly enough, you can then convince the entire earth that something is there?
Well, then I think that's a whole phenomenon all by itself we should study then.
Because, what are you talking about?
People go to the DMT space all the time, right?
How do you know about the machine elves?
Conviction In The Face Of Chaos00:03:13
Somebody told you about it all the time.
Exactly.
So, are we saying, oh, we shouldn't talk about machine elves because if we're going to keep talking about it, it's going to be confirmational bias.
And then, how do we know if they're real or not?
Well, the only difference here is that I'm claiming that this is actually real, which was already in the zeitgeist, already in the conversation.
I think it's the level of emphasis that I'm giving it that people are uncomfortable with.
They're uncomfortable with the amount of certainty I have about it.
Which I get, right, which I get, but at a certain point, you have to admit when you do know what you know.
So, the reason that I'm saying things with this amount of conviction, the things that I am saying, I'm knowing with conviction.
Again, to remind everybody, the only thing I'm saying that I know for sure is that whatever it is, people say, why are you calling it the code of reality?
I don't know.
It's a placeholder.
It kind of looks like a self executing code.
Do I know it codes for all the environment and everything?
Of course not.
Here's what I know for sure whatever that is exists on its own side, even when you're not looking.
It's a real thing.
Or if you want to say, yeah, but everything is mine, okay.
Even within that frame, whatever it is that you mean to say, the external environment within the perception that everything is mind.
Okay.
However, you want to play the language game, it is an external thing to you as you are perceiving yourself right now.
That's a real thing.
That's all I'm claiming.
Why I know this with absolute uncertainty?
Well, there's a certain long process I went through personally over years and years and years before I even spoke about this publicly where I actually never assumed anything about it.
I just allowed it to unfold.
I just kind of looked at it for what it is.
I didn't really land on any conclusion or anything.
And eventually, with a lot of hammering into me, with like insistence from the other space to say, yo, what else do we need to show you?
And I'm like, wait, so you tell me they're like, yes, yes, it's what this is.
I was like, oh, they're like, thank you.
So then eventually you go, okay, I know this is real.
I no longer feel the obligation to pretend to think that maybe I don't think that maybe I know for sure.
Does that mean that everybody has to have this amount of conviction?
Of course not.
But I don't feel apologetic for the amount of conviction I have because at a certain point, there is such a state of the brain, of the mind, called knowing.
It's a very limited knowing, it's a very small portion.
I'm not claiming to know the ultimate secrets of the universe, but I know I can't walk through the wall.
Do I know this?
Yes, I know this.
Do you know this?
Yes.
And anybody who insists otherwise is just playing a weird language game, right?
You know you can't walk through the wall.
Let's not be silly.
Okay, I know that the code is there as much as I know that I can't walk through the wall.
So, at a certain point, I have every right to have the conviction that I have, and I can defend these convictions.
And anybody else has the right to criticize my convictions, which is exactly the situation we're in.
The move that the other side sometimes makes is like, if you would just have less conviction, I would be more comfortable with it.
Well, that's not, that's you.
That's not how it is averse.
That's fine.
But we're going to have the conversation with the amount of conviction we're going to have for both ends about it.
And the only thing that would substantiate it ultimately is if something comes from it, if something that can actually come to fruition from it.
Defending Personal Convictions00:15:26
Up until this point, the main criticism was well, if these things are real to any degree, how come they're always so elusive?
How come they don't really leave any mark or like real information behind?
Well, here it is.
Here's the thing.
Let's start playing with it.
And now people push the horizon even further.
Do you ever get the feeling that maybe this stuff wasn't meant to be studied and scientifically discovered?
Why is it discoverable then?
That seems to be an arbitrary problem.
Maybe that's a paradox.
Maybe.
Maybe it just wasn't meant to be known by everybody.
Maybe this thing wasn't meant to change humanity, right?
Maybe it's not meant to help humanity mature or evolve.
Maybe it's just for specific people to discover on their own.
And it's not.
Are you familiar with this study?
There was this John Hopkins study that went on.
I just had this journalist on here named Travis Kitchens who was a part of a John Hopkins psychedelic study, research study in like the 90s or early 2000s with a couple.
With what were the gentlemen's names who started that study?
Like the guys that were like the pioneers of the psychedelic renaissance were a part of this study.
And it was this study where they brought in a bunch of people from different religious part, a bunch of different religions.
Like they brought in a Buddhist, a Jewish person, Christians, people like the heads of all the faiths, right?
Who had different religious beliefs, put them on psychedelics and tried to find out what the common theme was behind.
All of their experiences and how they projected their own religious frameworks onto it, right?
And they had this hypothesis that of this idea called perennialism.
I don't know if you've ever heard of perennialism, but perennialism is this idea that all religions came from one common source.
Like they're all drawing from one source, which goes back to like some of the stuff that Brian Morescu talks about is like the Eleusinian mysteries and the Greeks were experiencing this psychedelic.
They were going into this DMT state or the psychedelic state where they were seeing God, right?
Or they were experiencing these things that eventually got translated into different religions, right?
For different reasons, which, you know, religions kind of like Christianity spiraled out of control and became, you know, this thing that we know of today.
And like, it's like the ultimate goal of this was trying to find one common core to all religions and to all human belief and the core of human consciousness almost, right?
But it's like, to me, and what Travis pointed out great was like, I don't think it really matters that much, right?
Like, if you're a Christian or if you're a Buddhist or if you're a UFO person or if you're a psychonaut who thinks that, you know, whatever you believe, as long as your belief makes you a better person, more power to you.
I tell you why it doesn't map onto the way I see it.
Because the answer to your question is it possible that it's not meant to be entertained by everybody and it's not supposed to help us?
The answer is, of course, maybe, yeah.
Maybe sure.
Maybe you're right.
But that's a lot of maybes.
The more reasonable way to proceed, I would say, is to look at how any other big understanding in human history ever happened, which is always a correction of the map.
The reason that in some domains it might be okay to hold opposing views about different things, but in other domains it isn't.
I forget who gave that example, but it's a perfect example.
The example is if you think you're on a ship, And you go out and you just open the window, crack the window because you want some more air.
But you happen to be on the submarine and you get confused.
It really matters.
Now, forget about the fact that you can't really open the window in the submarine.
But let's say you could.
The point is, if you don't understand the situation you're in, you might make moves that can be detrimental.
So making the map match the territory is a very important endeavor.
And just notice that whenever people sailed outside of the domain of the current conviction of society, either intellectually or physically, into the ocean.
You're going to fall off the face of the earth.
What if we just stay here?
What if we say, hey, wolves are going to come to the village?
Either you like it or not.
You have to understand always the larger environment you're in.
It's just the nature of the game.
And if then you want to say, well, look, I understand the game has worked this way so far, but maybe this is it.
This is the limit.
Well, that's an arbitrary limit.
This thing can be connected, though.
You can connect this to the conversation you were saying about the various religions, right?
And what Danny just said.
So there's an extra connecting element here.
One is starting with every single religion, right?
Is in the realm of verbal communication.
But we talked about originally the filters and beyond the filters.
And so it's in a box of language, right?
So whatever religion that is, the search is the same, ultimately.
The question is the same.
What are we?
Where we came from?
Is there an entity that created us, or how does this operate?
And all that happens in the verbal realm.
Because regardless of the religion, they use a set of language, be it Sanskrit, being Hebrew, being English, being whatever it is, you are operating in that box.
And everything that you can talk about is a loose description of something.
So you have to move outside of the box.
Outside of the language and move beyond that point where it becomes an experience.
When it's an experience, I'm pretty sure the experience is exactly the same to every religion.
The split comes from the different culture and language that you're explaining or talk about the things.
But if you go to the experiment part, which is outside of language, which is below, before the filters, right?
That takes out information, then it's probably exactly the same.
It's your description of your experience is what difference, right?
And then what Danny was talking about, the functionality of, yes, it is our.
Purpose maybe to go and experiment and figure out things and have answers to this ultimate question What are we doing here?
Why are we doing it?
Now, you equate it to the submarine that you might open a window that you shouldn't be opening, right?
This could be true that we could be barreling down in paths that are not exactly optimal or even detrimental, right?
But if we just stay with the pragmatic.
The absolute pragmatic basics, then the experience of it, right?
When it's nonverbal, it's most likely the same.
So, this is the language and the descriptions that separate it into different buckets of religion.
And the question always going to be the same why?
Why?
Right.
What is the purpose?
Right.
So, that is a fundamental question of all.
Everything else is a subset of that.
The ultimate question is what is happening?
Why is it happening?
What is our purpose?
Why?
That's it.
And I think that's part of the human brain's operating system to ask that question why?
Because everything comes from something.
We both came from our parents, it came from our grandparents.
A plant, a tree comes from a seed planted in the ground.
But where did the first one come from?
The very, very first one.
It's only by us being able to have the gift of reason.
It is to believe in a god.
I don't think it's human.
The question is general, right?
I think in any other species, any other species exist in this universe will have the same questions, the same exact questions.
It doesn't matter that you grew up in a different solar system in different circumstances, the question will be the same.
And it would be asked on the level that you can entertain.
So for an amoeba, the form of the question would be, How can I be more comfortable?
Oh, this is too hot.
I'm going to move to the shade.
But the question always drives the process.
That's a completely natural thing in existence itself.
Yeah.
So to then put an arbitrary stop to it because of other things we think we understand, because notice that everything you described, they're also conceptual frameworks.
There are also other things that people claim to understand.
So it's just a competition between the frames of understanding.
Yeah.
So the example with the submarine illustrates what if there's something you're supposed to do and you're not going to do because you didn't understand where you are?
Is there a cliff there and you thought it was just a two dimensional shape?
It's more than that.
So you have to understand that you're on that path, right?
And so the answer to most times, like, should you know?
Almost in every instance, it's yes.
It's always better to know and then to do something about it versus not know.
There are some limited cases that I would say, like, if a meteor is hurling down towards us and we have three weeks to live, is it better to know?
In this limited instance, maybe not, because in three weeks, we're just going to panic and it's not going to be better.
Right.
But these cases are much more rare.
Than all the other cases.
Like, is it good for us to know how to synthesize polio or to build the atom bomb?
Well, it's good for us to know that that's a possibility and then kind of work around it because to say we shouldn't have never discovered it, that's just postponing the moment in which it will be discovered someday.
It's always better to know something and then to do something about it properly.
And that's why I'm saying the attitude of the monkey is we keep pointing to these external things as the blame.
But it's like if we can get our act together, then we can stop pointing.
I can drop a paradox on top on this.
Please?
I can drop a massive paradox on top.
Okay.
So because it makes sense, right?
That we should know.
But knowing that we shouldn't know is also knowing.
I'm going to give you into an actual experience that I personally had in the space, deep in the space.
I've been there hundreds and hundreds of times, and there are different levels.
And I'll give you an actual example.
When it's nonverbal communication, how data comes to you, you just know, and it's independent of time.
So, meaning when you're in that space, you just out of a sudden know something.
And it's almost like it didn't really take time.
So it's not like there's a book of knowledge and it takes time to absorb that.
It just, oh, I understand.
And it's instant, right?
And so there was this moment where I realized that we are in being in that space.
And when you reach us, this idea that, you know, like what is the Buddhist talk about, where is Pats are talking about this oneness?
When we took off my hands from the car.
And then you realize, like, oh, there's this one consciousness, right?
And there's the obvious question, like, why are we compartmentalized?
Well, in that one consciousness, it's absolute.
There is nothing else, just this one consciousness.
And in that state, if you can absorb that for a second, it's the loneliest existence that it can be.
It has no companion because there is nothing else but it.
That's it, right?
Just one.
Just one.
But that one.
This universe of consciousness, this soup of everything is one coherent consciousness.
And it is, for lack of a better word, it's the absolute loneliness because it has no companion.
However, in a second, you're compartmentalized, you're a sub process, right?
Then you're not in that absolute consciousness.
You're surrounded by others.
Correct.
So, out of a sudden, there are processes, there is noise, there are.
There are experiences can be, can exist, right?
And so I had this perception of the job, our purpose is that every possibility can be experienced.
And it's almost like your function.
And it will take away some sort of an anxiety of human existence.
Because, am I doing my purpose?
Yes.
They all do.
Our purpose is to experience, live this life.
There's no way out.
You were born into this life and you think, absolutely, I have to live it until you're not living, right?
There's no way out.
That's the process.
And the process is that you're living at one set of possibilities.
It's your possibility.
Your possibility and your experience is not going to be anywhere near to anyone else's.
It's very unique to you, right?
And so this set of data was fed to the absolute consciousness.
This experience, yours, yours was fed and yours was an all of ours.
So, this, the phenomena, God, whatever you want to call it, experiences all the possibilities, the infinite possibilities, and you are that subroutine that experienced this one.
So, whatever it is you're doing, you're doing your job.
You're living your life, you're experiencing, and you're feeding the data.
Now, you do have free will, and you can choose what you're going to experience.
You actually do have that power.
But the process is you are living your life and feeding the data.
Right.
And in that particular moment, I had this understanding of if I'm searching, if I'm out of the pen, searching for that consciousness, searching for God, searching for those things, if I was meant to understand and meant to know, it wouldn't be hidden.
But it would also not be foundable, don't you think?
It is.
It is foundable.
If I meant to, well, here's the That's the paradox.
You wouldn't be fundable even in principle.
Well, but that's the paradox that you can experience that, but immediately the experience is don't look for this.
Do your job, which is experience life, go live, experience, and have that feed that to the Akashic Records or whatever you want to call that.
Right?
The Paradox Of Fundability00:14:52
That's if you understand that, then it takes away some kind of an anxiety.
Now, it works for me.
This experience that you've had, some people call it the void.
I've had it.
Michael Pollan talks about it actually on the Joe Rogan experience where he was so grateful when he came back that it was content.
He was like, Oh my God.
Did Rick Strassman also talk about this?
It happens to a lot of people.
I don't know if he specifically talked about it.
I think he said he was on a 5 MEO DMT and he went to like a white room.
Yeah, the whiteout or the void.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So the thing, to me, I'm hearing this and I've had this, and Zoltan is absolutely right.
It is the most gutting feeling you can possibly have.
But I always say, I think there's still something to be said about the fact that you're experiencing it still from some.
Unitary perspective.
You're still an ego experiencing the ultimate just loneliness, right?
So that's why it's so gutting.
But because on the other hand, you have other people that are talking about, like, you know, when you experience that, it's just the biggest bliss, like the fullest freedom.
But I would say that specifically with the code, not necessarily with this, because with this, I am open to interpretation and all of that.
There might be a balanced place.
I agree with that.
With the code in particular, something else jumps at me, which is the fact that it is recognizable on a level of a human.
Because If this is some kind of a thing that codes for the function of reality, it could have easily been just the wiggles, just the signals.
Why does it appear as a language that is discernible to creatures like us?
That is the question that makes me feel like that's a breadcrumb versus.
And the fact that it wasn't a hepatistense.
It wasn't like a laser was on and I smoked some and I saw something.
I was like, what is that?
That's not how it happened.
I aimed there for years.
And something was giving me hints.
So, all of these things together, and it didn't feel like one of these, like, you know, to the degree that I can discern energies, the energy of whatever that was guiding, it was like a, it was light.
It was, it was like a blissful energy.
It wasn't like the other thing, right?
So, in that sense, can it mean that we now have to come and face something that is difficult to face?
Maybe.
But that means that we were led to that, and that was part of what we need to go through in the next step of evolution.
This.
This part of the conversation, whenever I get to it, I'm very careful because I don't really know what is unfolding, like Zoltan said.
But my strong intuition is that it is unavoidable and we're going to experience it in different ways, either way.
Like we're all going to experience this in some form, this transitional moment.
And it is shrouded with so much speculation that I'm not sure that I think that more words confuse people than do any good.
But the most general thing I can say about it is that everybody kind of feels that something is happening.
And either you're a person, you know, some kind of an aboriginal person in the somewhere that you have zero technology, it's going to communicate to you with as much coherence that it needs to in a way that you understand as to anybody else who's living with a super advanced technology.
This might be just our version of how it's trying to express itself.
And I know it sounds super esoteric, but I. My intuition is that whatever it is, it's not, we don't, people talk about 2050, 2040, singularity.
My feeling is we have maybe two years.
Like, this is not a like in 20 years from now.
This is now, it's now, it's happening.
So, like, it's no longer a drill.
And the degree to which some of us can understand it and help become part of the process they're trying to unfold, which a lot of it is actually letting go.
Letting go of the self control, letting go of what we think we understand.
This is a very big practice for me at the moment because the more I talk about it, the more the weight of certain kinds of responsibilities kind of dawns on me.
And then the only thing I can do that keeps me sane is to constantly drop into the space of like feeling what it feels like to be the unit that is doing this, talking about this.
If I start telling you something and inside I have this like very strong impulse, I was like, I'm like, okay, maybe I'm not supposed to talk about that.
So there's like, Maybe not right now.
So I'm constantly aware of that.
Is it anything more than some ideas I have in my psychology and maybe nothing more?
Maybe.
Maybe.
Completely open to that.
But we have to stand somewhere to make some assumptions with a certain amount of certainty.
You will never get to a place.
You surf, right?
Yes.
Great.
In any activity that has real outcomes in real time, there's certain things that become super clear.
You have to have a certain amount of one of those things is you have to have a certain amount of conviction about your ability to do something to be able to do it The more you second guess it and certain there's way less chances you're gonna enter flow or any state in which you can actually execute the task How it exactly happened when you were on the wave perfectly Every single muscle of the body maneuver you might not be aware of but how to drop into that space is the thing you become better and better at the more you do it, right?
But notice that there has to be some level of conviction the more you second guess it the chances you're gonna crash are way higher And that's with everything.
If you want to entertain a scientific idea, you have to have a certain amount of conviction that it might work.
I'm not talking about biases.
You have to know that there's maybe a cash value there.
Okay, then you proceed.
If you second guess it to a degree where you're not even going to, well, it can be infinite million other things, you're not going to have enough of a drive to even act on it.
So that's where I'm coming from.
I'm going to entertain this frame, see if something comes out of it.
I am in full liberty after a certain amount of time, go, you know what?
We tried it.
Didn't work.
Let's go back to the old frame.
It's a legitimate move.
There's no problem with that.
And I think what most people don't recognize is that we're always doing that.
Like, even our current conviction of the scientific zeitgeist, this is also a form of a thing we were agreed upon.
That's a good way to do this so far.
It's going to take a lot to replace it if we ever get to replace it.
Fine.
But you have to have a certain amount of conviction to kind of go in the face of it, but not even resist it.
Just like, how do we?
I always say, whatever it is that we're going to find has to also match everything else we already understand.
It's never going to replace everything.
That's not how it works.
So, I guess my bottom line is there's a certain fluidity.
And a certain amount of rigidity that we have to constantly play with that can help us find our place in this unfolding.
And I'm fully aware that this kind of talk immediately sounds more like a sage would be talking, right?
It's like, oh, you have to.
But I don't think it has to be.
I think we can talk about things that may be unfolding that are greater than our current ability to understand in a way that makes sense to us collectively and personally without.
Constantly asking one another to pay a penalty for describing it in that way or another way.
If I'm understanding what you're trying to do, I'm not going to waste energy or try and correct every single word you say.
I'm just, I feel you.
Like, okay, I understand what you're trying to say to me.
And if you're struggling with saying it, I might even help you say it, right?
That should be more of the attitude.
And that also holds the seed in all human endeavor in science, in politics, in everything.
If we have a little bit more charity towards one another, it's like, what are you really trying to say?
Oh, okay, I get it.
And again, it sounds, I'm aware that what I'm saying right now sounds like, bro, what are you talking about?
You were just talking about science.
Now you're talking about some kind of a human interaction.
It's part of it.
If everything in science is done, we have the scientific method.
Awesome, let's go with it.
We don't have to be dicks about it.
Right.
Like, scientists don't have to be dicks to one another to achieve an accolade.
That's part of it.
If you're going to work together on something major, wouldn't it be better if we also feel comfortable and safe?
To do that in a way we can explore, it's like, oh, that didn't pan out, but we don't have to make you feel like shit about it.
And I personally don't care because I'm not in that world really, and I have all the love that I need in the world.
But I am noticing that it's a big pain point for scientists.
I have two physicists who are totally on board to help out, but they said, I have to be consulting.
I can't put my name on it.
I'm going to lose everything.
Right.
That's crazy.
That's crazy.
Back to Galileo, man.
That was a scientific community that held rigidly that idea.
And you know, we can play the what about what aboutism all day long.
So, the conviction of the experience that's what you're talking about.
Like, you have an experience and you have a conviction that I experienced this, I'm looking at a code or I experienced this particular thing.
Then, you know, I could jump in there and start questioning, like, well, what is existence?
That's what aboutism.
How about that?
How you know, you can, you know, at one point, you have to drop anchor.
And the anchor is, I have seen that code.
I have experienced this.
I got to anchor myself in those like, well, it happened to me.
And I saw it and I perceived it.
And if it happened to me, I can't care less about 8 billion people saying otherwise.
Because everything that was ever invented or discovered, at one point, the person who discovered it or invented it had to have a spine and a shoulder strong enough to carry the weight of nobody else on this planet.
In this moment, believes in what you're saying or what you invented, right?
It falls on you because you invented it or you saw what you saw, right?
And so the truth is not by consensus.
And it's my truth.
I saw it.
That to me is unquestionable because we can play the what about as well.
Are you really here?
And is this world really exist?
We can play this all day long.
At one point, you have to put down the bricks of like, okay, well, I am going through this life.
I am experiencing this life.
I feel like I am here.
There are processes and logical processes and feelings and ideas that are hovering inside my head.
And I. Regardless of I myself could pull this apart, like my perception and what is really happening, and are we really here?
And is this just a hologram?
We can play that all day long.
The truth is not in consensus, it's very powerful.
Yeah, but at one point, I gotta drop an anchor in something.
I have to have a solid point.
Right now, my solid point is like this I know nobody in this room and nobody outside this room has a fucking idea.
Of what's going on, not one.
There's not a person on this planet that knows what the hell is going on.
Not one.
Nobody knows.
Everybody's guessing.
Everybody just has ideas.
There's no absolute.
Nobody knows.
I know that, and that itself is absolute.
That I at least know that nobody knows.
Right.
There are things that are unknown and there are things that are unknownable.
And then you can logically come to some conclusion that certain things are unknownable.
Right.
But I think the human mind can't really deal with infinity and those ideas.
Like we already know that we can.
But at one point, you still have to drop an anchor.
So if you have these experiences, if you saw that, if that's your conviction, you got to put down that brick and say, I'm defending this brick.
This is my experience.
And there's nobody alive on this planet that can not question it, but attack that in any shape and way.
This is my experience.
Your universe is your universe.
It's my experience.
And I'm sticking to this because I have experienced this.
So I'm going to put an anchor in this.
And if you don't do that, then there's nothing.
There's no starting point.
There's nothing that you can possibly build.
There has to be something.
But the small thing to add to that is that in order for that to hold water, you first have to acquire the ability to have a certain level of discernment, which is important.
You did a certain amount of work on yourself that you trust your own experience in a way that not for everybody it's that solidified.
I have that to some degree.
You have that to a larger degree, but it's also because you have more of, I guess, what you would call external accolades.
To rest on to say, I tried things my way, they worked out.
So now, whenever I walk in a room and somebody starts yapping business advice at me, I'll let them yap, but I'm like, You do you.
I did it my way.
Look around you.
That's what I've achieved.
What did you achieve?
So that gives you a certain amount of confidence in your convictions.
And I have some of that in other domains.
Some people I realized don't always have that because they are never really dropping an anchor ever.
Or for whatever other reason, and they never really land on something that pans out.
So, from that perspective, it's very difficult to trust yourself and to trust your convictions.
And I do appreciate that because it was pointed out to me in one of my daily lives.
It was pointed out to me.
And I never thought about that.
And it has to do with a certain ability to track what is going on to a degree.
And if it pans out enough times, well, it's almost like check marks.
It's like, okay.
Yeah, yeah.
But the second you achieve that, and this is the thing that.
It's funny when people think that I've kind of like went with the first idea I had and just kind of ran with it.
Couldn't be literally the opposite of that.
I've experienced this space thousands of times and so much that I'm like, okay, I think I have a say in what I think each thing in there is because I simply visited it so often.
So I have some discernment that I trust.
Would it be just that thing and also nothing else, like even just the console, let's say?
Would I be speaking about this with that amount of conviction now?
I don't know.
I think that it's because something came out of it that I can show other people, or at least to a substantial number of people, that basically gave me that check mark of like, Something is there, and it doesn't matter what you say until you don't address the exact direct thing that I'm seeing.
Verifying Shared Experiences00:13:42
You can say whatever you want.
I don't, they're like, Have you considered this?
I don't need to consider it.
I have the direct experience of it.
Yeah, that would be the difference there.
I mean, we're talking about the patterns within the agreed upon reality, right?
That you repeat certain patterns, and we can play this game of like, Okay, I do this, or you do this, or that, and then keep repeating, and you recognize a pattern.
That this is possible in a.
So you can always establish, like, okay, so this is the truth of in this agreed upon reality, because in this agreed upon reality, I repeated a pattern and we can all verify that that happened.
Let's say in business, or it doesn't matter if I'm going to snowboard, play guitar, or do business, or paint or sculpt, that there's a pattern in there in all those activities that are the same.
Essentially, there's a pattern.
So it doesn't matter what I'm going to put my mind to, I will excel in that because I understand the pattern that.
Underlies, and then once you do that enough times, and you can say, Okay, in the agreed upon reality, I demonstrated that I can repeat this pattern in whatever shape and way, and it will succeed.
But in the not agreed upon reality, I reserve the right to be absolutely insane.
I could be a schizophrenic person, will be convinced that somebody's sitting over there, right?
It doesn't mean that we just call this person schizophrenic, right?
It doesn't mean he's wrong, it just We don't see what this person sees.
And that's what I mean.
The truth is not by consensus.
So, because we have much less people who see ghosts and spirits and people that we're perceiving that they're not there, we consider them insane.
That's not necessarily the case.
It's just because we are a majority, we're going to say, oh, yeah, he's insane.
He's seeing things.
It doesn't mean he's wrong.
We just don't see what this person sees.
So, as reserved, the right to be insane.
But this is why I'm saying that to me, the bottom question, at least at the moment, is what is the relationship between the mind and matter?
Because matter seems to have this universal, to us, universal democratic thing where it doesn't matter how crazy you are, you try to walk through the wall, you ain't doing it.
That is an important point.
What is that?
Why is that that way?
So ultimately, to me, the encouragement again is to just broaden the spectrum of entertainment.
how many things we entertain and we want to include in the ontology that we're building on without getting lost.
It's a fine line.
I'm trying to push the ontology just slightly out, saying, hey, the thing that we want to consider seriously is a little bit right outside of what we currently do.
Can we just push it out?
I think it will solve a lot of problems.
That's really all I'm saying.
I want to talk about, we talked about it last night.
What do you think happened when you got, you said you got kicked out of the DMT space?
Was that the same experience when you, Experienced this oneness, this one conscious loneliness.
No, it's that was different.
Is that it's then neurogum, by the way?
Before, uh, no, I have some though.
You want some?
Sure, I'll have it.
I feel like I don't want more coffee.
I feel like it's going to fly me to the moon.
Have you tried Eurogum before?
Yeah.
Is it good?
Yeah.
Is it whatever?
It's a gum that supposedly does something, and I don't know.
It's like, no, no, I'll.
So here's the thing.
I'm already.
He's getting talking so far.
Here's the thing.
I'm already doing 200 miles an hour.
So when I go 201 miles an hour because of the Eurogum, it will not make a difference.
Okay.
So it would only matter if.
If I was a mentally turtle, and you know, so I don't know, it's a percentage game.
So, yeah, so that the getting kicked out experience, if you Google this, this happens to a lot of people actually, right?
And so, which also underlines that again, there is something that happened, this physically happened to me, so I can verify it in my physical experience.
Concrete existence, we are agreed upon existence.
This is our agreed upon existence.
In a second, I go into that space, we're no longer in the agreed upon reality because we can't verify those rule sets that then it talks about, like I can't walk through the wall, right?
Is now applying to all of us, right?
So we have an agreed upon reality, and agreement is that I can't walk through that wall.
Now, in a second, I'm in that space, right?
The rule set is not yet established.
There is a rule set, but we just don't know that rule set yet.
So we have a hard time to Agree upon the reality of that space, it has a reality, it has a rule set, and there are sometimes something happens that I can verify that, like getting kicked out.
Right?
So, that happened to me that I got kicked out.
I can tell you the little story why and how that happened, but the physical proof of that is number one, research it getting kicked out of DMT, and you find it to Steve.
See if you can Google it.
Tons of people will talk about like they got kicked out for various reasons and for various periods of time.
And what happens once I got kicked out.
I couldn't get back in.
My friend got forcibly kicked out of hyperspace.
I'm pretty sure that you're going to find hundreds and hundreds of these recans.
Yeah, on Reddit, probably a bunch.
Yeah.
So, but.
It's like, yeah, I would search be like banned from DMT space or something.
So, what's the importance of it?
The importance of it that you're going to find that some, you know, hundreds of people will verify the same experience that this happened to them, right?
And when it happens to you, you can compare it to the.
Agreed upon reality and they know that agreed upon reality, right?
There you go.
The DMT itself was banned, right?
That's fine, it was banned from outer space.
That's hilarious.
So, all right.
So, what's the implication?
What's the importance of it?
So, when you get kicked out of the space and hundreds of people will verify that it happened to them, then you can be discussing that event in our agreed upon reality right here.
And the agreement is that they got kicked out.
Trying to get back and they cannot.
They can smoke as much, they empty as they want, and they cannot get back in.
Almost like some kind of receptor that is open to access that space is not shut.
Door is shut, and no matter how many times you hit that cartridge, you cannot get back in.
And so, if you're going to read that, you're going to probably find that hundreds and hundreds of people are talking about this.
So, whatever happens in a DMT space where we don't have an agreement of the rules yet, try chrome.
Right here, we do have.
An agreement of the rules, right?
And the agreement is that you got kicked out, you hit that cartridge, can't get back in.
And every single person will recount the same thing.
So something happened that we can all verify.
That alone is very interesting because it affects the agreed upon reality that we can talk about.
It's with its rules of can't walk through the wall, can't do this, can't do that, can't fly, can't get back into the empty.
That's not part of can't get back into the empty space, is not part of because it happens right here.
Right.
So.
If that's verifiable, and then I say, okay, before you got kicked out, what did you do?
What happened?
And then you're going to find similar stories.
See what I mean?
So, in some way, this is what I'm talking about.
Like, they're going to be a critical mass when we have enough data and enough anecdotes at first, because that's all we got.
Yeah.
Right?
Anecdotes at first that are parallel.
And eventually, when there is enough of that, then the scientific community has to, you know, mobilize and go, like, well, this is too weird.
This is too much.
Too many to, To ignore that these stories are the same, so whatever reason, whatever reason, they're the same stories, right?
And so, for the story why I got kicked out, I popped into a space where there was an entity.
Generally, my personal experiences are usually, I don't know, you want to say, even listen, even if you don't find hundreds of accounts, this is like actually a perfect moment.
Oh, you will, but yeah, but we can make a prediction because I'm I can tell you from my daily lives, I do have quite a few, like dozens of people that told me that they had a similar experience.
So, I bet you that after this episode is released, at this point, you'll see a bunch of comments.
You'll see people like, oh, that happened to me.
It really happens very often to people.
Right.
So, to tell you what happened, you know, I ventured in this space hundreds and hundreds of times.
Right.
And my personal experience actually is everybody's is different.
I don't have many interactions with entities.
I have a different cerebral experience when I'm in there.
But I do have.
I did have encounters, nonverbal communications.
Some of them are, I could call a miracle because it had physical effects that affected me later in this agreed upon reality.
But just to go to this example, I popped into a space where there was an entity.
And this entity was startled by me popping into its space, right?
And so, in a second, that happens.
Usually, what happens with these entities, you have this nonverbal bridge, like sort of like I can read.
Your thought, you can read minds, we are connected immediately.
And so I popped in and I know I startled this creature because it got annoyed with me.
So, the description that I can give is that the feeling of annoyance like, what are you doing here?
What you know, and in a second that happened, I could because I knew that this creature was annoyed, the creature also realized that I know and it almost felt like it corrected itself.
Oh, okay, so we have a bridge, so I hear your thoughts, so you have to behave.
There was that kind of exchange, right?
Right.
Now, so the first was a startling, you know, and the second was like, oh, okay, so we are connected.
I can hear your thoughts, sort of, you can hear mine.
So there's a bridge.
And this creature was, again, it's nonverbal.
So you just know this, this was the question, if I paraphrase, of like, okay, well, you hear what you want to know.
And I had this very quick process.
It's interesting in that space, your mind is like a million times faster.
Sorry to interrupt.
What did it look like?
You would equate this to almost like the drawings that we see.
This creature was tall and a long face.
So it's wearing some kind of a robe.
Now, when you jump in this place, the reason I'm saying that I'm hesitant of explaining because I thought of this that that might be the process of my human interpretation.
Of something.
Right.
Right.
So when I say, like, how something looks like, there is a possibility that there's an entity, and I am, it's my mind that draws the creature, if that makes any sense.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Right.
Because, you know, we have a, we are bound by a visual data set that we have really difficult time to, you know, what you've never seen before, can't imagine.
It's almost like you can't, you know, see.
So, so when I describe this, this was a talk.
Creature looked like it had some kind of rope.
I was in a white space, similar arches as the Colosseum would have.
Okay.
Very, very white, foggy place.
And again, when we talk about visuals, I am keenly aware that there's a possibility that it's my own mind is creating the visual, interpret something the way I can interpret.
What is absolutely obvious though, that.
You encounter this energy and there is an exchange, right?
So, the exchange is that I am aware that oh, there is a being here and we have an interaction.
That is what you know Danny was saying that's my brick, that's my anchor.
That I know that this is happening, this is unquestionable.
The visual is questionable because who knows how that happens.
But for me, the appearance was like a tall creature.
Uh, you know, I know I hesitate to say the grayish skin because it's.
You know, we have an idea of ETs, how they look like, like the typical gray alien you see in the movie.
Yeah, but it was kind of like that, but tall, very tall, and a longer sort of head, like a long kind of head with a robe.
They shave with some kind of a human.
Kind of, yeah, that's what I mean.
So that's what I mean.
Like, I accept that there's a possibility that that's my mind's, you know, translation of the energy or whatever this being is, like the representation.
But I saw it as that.
And the question was, okay, so what do you want to know?
Near Death Entity Encounters00:15:48
Why are you here?
What do you want to know?
And in my mind, I played that the game immediately.
Then it was really quick that I played that, like, well, I can ask all these questions and the answer actually doesn't matter.
That was the strangest thing.
I came to a conclusion, like, ask what?
And what difference it makes.
If I know or I don't know, it doesn't matter.
So I kind of processed this super quick and I didn't have a question.
I was like, I don't have a question.
I was like, I'm just passing through.
When I said passing through, it wasn't like an unconscious response.
Like, I know that I processed this, that I knew that I lightning fast went through the possibilities, what it is I want to know.
And I just came to this conclusion, like, well, it doesn't really matter.
Things are just are, and it is what it is.
And I was like, oh, I'm just passing through.
I don't really have a question.
And this thing got annoyed with me to the point, like, boom, I was out.
I just, the experience stopped completely.
The vision stops.
I was out.
I was sitting in my little meditation chair that I sit.
And after that, for months, I could not get back in at all, no matter what I would do.
So I was just kicked out.
And then later on, four months ish period, I went in with this, you know, it went through my meditation cycle.
And in that cycle, I was literally focusing, like, I need to get back.
I need to find out why is this, am I banned permanently?
Like, I had all these questions, right?
So now I had questions out of the sudden.
And I wanted to solve this.
Like, how do I get back in?
Right.
So I was super focused on.
On that, a task of getting back in and find out if I can and how.
And somehow that unlocked something because of my intention.
Like there was a very sharp intent that I went in with.
And there's again the communication comes like, okay, you can't come here anymore without a purpose.
You can't, you know, as a tourist, you can't just pass through.
And it's interesting that that was the answer because this creature got annoyed with me because I didn't have a purpose.
Purpose.
I was kind of like, well, I'm just passing through.
I don't have a question.
And that was immediately I was asked.
So that was the reason.
And so the answer was, it wasn't coming from the same being.
Like you get in and there are this nonverbal, this voice.
But again, it's nonverbal.
It's just annoying.
Like, oh, I got it.
And that was basically the idea of, or the message that you cannot come in here anymore as a tourist.
You've been here hundreds of hundreds of times.
This is, you know, if you come.
It has to have a purpose.
There has to be a function.
You can't just come.
I wonder why it did stand out to you, that particular instance, the being locked out.
I don't know.
I just think it's interesting because it's similar to, you know, well, it's interesting that you say a lot of people experience the same thing.
Because it is, this has a feature that we can verify in or agreed upon reality.
A few people who have this experience right now, right here, without any substance, and they're going to say the same thing to you like, hey, this happened to me, or something similar happened to me.
And so, again, this space where we are talking right now is or agreed upon reality with its rules and its rigidity, right?
That we all verify.
This table is here, the microphone is here.
We're doing a podcast right now.
You can't walk through the wall.
I mean, Danny definitely can't walk through the wall.
He claimed it many times.
So, you know, so that's our agreed upon reality.
Tiny disagreed about more reality.
You're gonna have people who will verify something that happened to them, and this event will be very, very similar, right?
So that something you can latch onto, like, okay, this is tangible because it's happened to many people, and they all talk about it, and the experience is very similar, yes.
And whatever happens within the space, we can't verify it because you would have to be there.
It's kind of like if you dreamt something, I can't verify, but you know what you dreamt.
And is there a possibility that we both go.
Dreaming and we're gonna share some kind of a dream.
There are some legends about the aborigines aborigines in Australia that do this, supposedly that they go to sleep together and they interact with each other in their dreams.
Yeah, could be a legend, could be, who knows, but there is something like that and um you, could you verify that?
There's also near-death experiences where people like there's been studies where people have been in car accidents together and like saw each other in their near-death experience right Yeah, so there you go.
Now, if somebody says this, you're going to say, well, you hit your head.
A hundred people say this, then you go, okay, I need to look at this.
So, this is something that you're touching on, I think is very important.
John Chavez from DMTQuest, who got involved with the film and not like he invested in it, but also he asked us if we would be okay with venturing into some territories like near death experience or things like this, potentially, if we can be presented with a certain amount of data.
So, what John is really good at is very aware of all the different kinds of research that exists out there.
And he made me aware of this.
I didn't know this, that apparently, what you would call these fringe investigative sections of science.
Near death experience, some people manifesting objects, like things that you would think, like, oh, this is some, you know, like Twilight Zone crazy shit.
Apparently, there's like real data about these things.
Yeah.
And it, for the most part, is kind of being ignored.
I have a friend who that I know really well, and he had open heart surgery.
And he was very, well, kind of like us, like he's very open minded, straightforward, not, you know, like necessarily married to believe anything in particular, but pretty, um, I would say secular in this predispensation.
He came back completely changed.
And he said, Danny, I was above my body, the whole shebang.
I went to visit my mother in Ireland.
I saw her.
I know it wasn't a vision.
I know I saw her like in real time.
He's like, I will never be the same.
It's like, because there's a level of realness to it, I guess.
I've never had that.
I've never had an out of body experience, but I understand that sentiment.
Of, like, the realness of it that is so salient to the person.
I saw a video on YouTube a couple months ago where this guy was explaining how when he was young, he had a near death experience.
Like, he was in a car accident, right?
And he said he saw some sort of entity or he communicated with some sort of.
I'm a little bit vague on what exactly he said he saw the first time when he was young.
But then later, he said he went to a mountain with one of his buddies and they did mushrooms.
And he said he saw the same entity.
And he said, maybe he said, maybe it was DMT.
It was either DMT or mushrooms.
And he said that the entity said, What the fuck are you doing here?
Get out and don't ever come back.
I think I've heard this.
He said it was the same thing.
This guy?
Interesting.
Yes.
Yeah, this is the guy.
It's a 12 minute video.
We're not going to watch the whole thing, but it is.
You know, that's it.
Because the reason I bring that up is because I had this guy on here who did this.
He basically won this.
It was a part of the grant that this dude, John Bigelow, Related to Bam Bam Bigelow?
I smelled DMT while a friend observed.
Okay, so it was DMT.
While a friend observed along a lake, I went from total fear out my head blast off to total calm and empty quiet space.
Same entity.
Okay, so.
Did you have that?
Did you have the NDE?
Did you have any of those?
Never had NDE, but I definitely met the same beings.
So I had this guy in here who says there's this guy named John Bigelow who's been like a part of the whole, he's an aerospace billionaire.
Yes.
Yeah, he's really into this.
Robert Biglow.
What do they call him?
You said John.
John Biglow.
Oh, Robert.
He's building this space hotel.
I remember this back in X Price times.
He was building this space hotel.
He's very into the whole alien disclosure movement and all this stuff.
He's got a lot of money.
He basically put up a bounty, like a bunch of money for people who could.
Come up with a theory on near death experiences and what they were, whatever.
And this guy won the prize for it because he was.
What was the gentleman's name who he had in here again?
Jeffrey Mishlove.
No, no, no, not Jeffrey Mishlove.
It was the guy before that.
The guy who was talking about the near death experiences of people together.
Oh, that was Jeffrey Long?
Yeah, Jeffrey Long.
Yeah, yeah.
So he won a bunch of money for his study on these near death experiences.
And he put like, I think he's had thousands of people together and he's been studying this for his whole life.
And I asked him about.
This guy who had the DMT experience and told him, don't come back.
And he thinks there's absolutely zero connection between both spaces.
Oh, spiritual and DMT space?
Between the near death experience realm and the DMT realm.
I'm open to it.
I'm on record saying this.
Wait, this is a conversation between Zelt and Headbeck and D.
I had both of those.
You had, yeah, right.
I had actual ND when I hit the truck, right?
Which I never saw my body.
I never looked at myself, but I could move in space.
Look behind the house, and you know, like I was not bound by, you know, I wanted to look behind a bush and I just did.
And that was not possible.
Like that bush was far away, or look behind the house.
So it was, it was, I never looked at my body because I was a kid.
I didn't know what the hell was going on.
But on a ME05, you can have, like people call it ego death.
And I sort of have a theory what actually happens there is that, and it's funny that this comes from the frog.
And I'm going to say, like, if you have a reptilian mind, Right, I just called it happily in mind that the basic function your DOS, you know, operating system, how many times you blink and all that stuff, right?
And the feedback system from your body, right?
So there's your mind that is not the brain, the mind that is not material, right?
So your thoughts and all those processes, and there's a connection between that because those processes tell you, like, oh, I gotta run, but how do you know?
Like, well, you're Your subconscious, or call it reptilian mind, or call it the basic operation system, told you that you're in danger.
So you better run, right?
So these two work together.
And my theory is that the MEO5 is basically that the frog venom severs this connection.
So your mind gets zero feedback from the body or any kind, zero.
There's no feedback from the body.
And so it will perceive as you died.
Because all the sensory data that would otherwise come in just simply not there.
And so that's why possibly you experience this state of like, oh, I just died.
Like I had that experience.
Like I went through that, like, holy shit, it just died.
Where you're not connected to anything back then.
Well, you're conscious, right?
But I had this absolute certainty that I just died.
Like it's an absolute certainty.
And that's the recollection, same thing.
If you research it, people talk about the ego that or people try to figure out what happens.
Some people have it on NNDMT, some people have it on MU5, 5 MU.
And the experience that they talk about is that.
Like, they're trying to, like, I died.
And they have this absolute certainty that they did.
And I had the absolute certainty, like, holy cow, it just game over.
This just ended today.
You know?
So you're a perfect person to ask.
I do want to ask you about this difference that the guy was describing.
Because my impression also that the DMT, NN at least, feels very different than what I'm experiencing when I'm in deep states of meditation.
I've never had near death.
But from the descriptions, and again, this is why you're a perfect person to ask, you don't feel that there's a difference in the essence of it?
Like the digital nature of how the DMT space feels, doesn't it feel different to you than what you experienced when you were 12 years old when you hit the truck?
Maybe not.
I'm asking.
Okay.
So, and in DMT, to me, in that space, there's a very conscious process that I can direct.
Like I'm going in and I know that I'm going here, I'm going there.
Like there's a complex process going on.
Like we, you know, I kind of always talk about like, look, any psychedelics that exist is you observing something in a theater, right?
And you just take a different seat.
It's a different angle.
So every single opiate to THC to everything that has somehow altered your perception, altered your perception, but you look into the same theater act.
Whatever is going on, you just look at it from a different point with different focus.
What's important to you now changed.
So you see something else.
It's what, What it means is when we talk about, like, you have this filter system, yeah, right?
So, every single one of those substances changes the filters.
What is important, what isn't important?
So, you look at it a different way.
Uh, DMT is the backstage pass, like, such a good analogy.
What's going on in the theater now no longer matters.
Now, you see how these things are moved, and oh, yeah, this guy flies in, there's a rope that he was, you know, so you see how the thing works, right.
And then 5MU is you're not in the theater.
You look at the whole thing, the whole existence, the whole thing from the outside.
Like if NN was the backstage press and see how things move and they're very mechanical in some way, digitally, you could even say that things are built and there are different levels of management.
There is a tour manager.
There is a, you know what I mean?
Like everybody has a function.
There are various entities with different functions and levels of consciousness and power.
And then all of a sudden, 5MU is the elevator to the boss.
Like, we're going to the boss, we're going all the way.
This is the guy, this is the one consciousness upper management.
There, then, this is the boss, this is the ownership right here.
This is the boss.
I love how you said it might be the satellite.
You're looking at everything from a satellite, right?
And so, you go to the boss, that's it's everything that is there is is here, right?
So, that's kind of how I would differentiate this, right?
And so, on Enon, yeah, right, the experience is very conscious, and I'm.
I know that I have complex processes and I think about things and move things and I purposely induce certain things and I have encounters with creatures.
Now, everybody's experience is different.
Consciousness And Complex Processes00:15:46
There was a time when I asked for help and I got help from creatures.
These were also grayish, bluish creatures, really tall.
This was the only time I can.
Wait, that's the thing with your chest?
Yeah.
Oh, that's a wild one.
I can walk around on DMT.
I could, you know, I could operate, you know, vehicles that shouldn't operate.
You know what I mean?
But so, you know, it's completely conscious.
This was the only.
Not just kids.
Yeah, no, not just dogs.
But, you know, it takes experience and hundreds of times to being there.
But this was the only time when I was pushed back.
Like a lot of people, you know, smoke DMT and they lay back and experience it that way.
I sit in a meditation position.
This was the only time I got pushed back.
Like I forcefully, like I felt like just.
You know, flat not.
I, but I went into that space for a reason.
Like I had this anger and I couldn't explain.
And then, you know, I'm meditating since I was a little kid, right?
So it's not normal.
My general being is not, things just are, whatever.
And it's really an alien experience to me that I had this pertaining, just this anger.
Like I would wake up almost every day, like I was just, there was this anger.
And it was weird because I had an outside perspective of it.
Like I realized, okay, engine light is on.
Why is it on?
I was angry, but it was sort of an external experience still.
Like there was an anxiety, like I would just do this all day.
Like it's just so I knew that okay, engine light is on, there's something's wrong.
I'm angry and anxious, and I am perceiving that.
And in a weird way, I compartmentalize it, it doesn't affect what I'm doing, but it's just there.
That's what I mean.
Like engine light is on, so I'm aware that something and it was not going away, it just kept happening day after day after day for like three, four, five weeks.
And so, you know, and I meditate, I do my things, and you know, I'm like, let's go.
Clear it and I would clear as much as possible, but it creeps back.
Like, what the hell?
And so I had this wild idea, like, you know what?
Let's go into the space and let's find out.
Let's go meet the mechanic.
Let's see the doctors, right?
And I went into this with, and you know, this was after I got back.
This was after I kicked out.
So, this is to me, this is again a reason that I'm coming in the space with consciousness, with purpose.
I came into this with a purpose.
And this was the, again, this is what I lay my brick when I say this happened.
Right.
And I'm going to anchor that.
But this happened.
I was sitting there and I felt like a forcefully pushed back, which is not normal to me.
I fell back.
And there were these giant, tall creatures around me.
I looked up and they were, if I would gauge, 20 foot plus, just huge creatures, right?
Kind of hovering over.
They had these long hands.
And I literally saw that they grabbed something.
There was a.
To the lack of it, it's an ugly potato, was right here with a long stinger.
Like it's almost like a mosquito's head.
It was like some weird thing.
Then I saw it.
And then they grabbed this thing and they start pulling it.
And I could see this stinger coming out of my chest.
It was going through my body and they were pulling this out, right?
And then just carried it away.
And where it's verifiable to me that I felt it, I felt how I kind of relaxed.
And I'm like, wow.
And the anxiety leaving me.
So, and I can cut ahead of the story that after this, this whole anxiety and anger just went away.
So, verifiably, this happened because also the agreed upon reality thing that was happening to me stopped.
So, I know that there is a physical proof that no longer this anxiety and anger was no longer there.
Wow.
And so, they grabbed this thing, they took it away, and then, and this is the difference between, 5mb and then that here, this was 5mb, this is nn.
Oh, this is because I can have a completely conscious, logical conversation why you don't really have that on 5mb.
It's you right going to the bus and language, and all that stuff stops right.
And here I got the packets of data like okay, this is a thing that you guys, meaning humans, you call these demons, but it's not a a thing with a bad intention, it's not a demon that you just call it a demon.
And so, what this is, it's like you know, when sharks are swimming, they have the little fish go around them and then they grab whatever.
Yeah.
And so, that's what it is.
You have a certain frequency, you put out a certain energy, and there are entities that will be attracted to that.
So technically, it's a parasite, right?
It's a parasite that something pissed you off, let's say, and then you are on that frequency.
You're angry and you're on that frequency.
And there are going to be parasites or creatures that are attracted to that.
You're leaking that now.
And then they will be around and they feed on that as long as you're angry.
Once your anger is gone, they have no more food.
They will be gone.
But if you're angry today and tomorrow and after tomorrow and it keeps happening, something bothers you and you keep yourself in this state, these entities, these parasites, start to become familiar with you.
And they don't have much, this was all told to me.
They don't have much, a lot of complex processes, but enough for them to know that, okay, this is my food source now.
And I'm here for a while and I'm starting to be familiar with this creature that's giving me this food.
And so, all we have to do is get him in a position where he's pissed, and then he will leak this food.
And so, bad stuff starts happening to you because they don't, they're not complex creatures, but they can, to some degree, affect what happens in reality.
Wow.
Right?
So, because they can affect your mental processes, because now your little demons are attached to you, right?
And you live your life, and your mental process is not completely unaffected.
That's basically what they said.
These creatures are affecting your mental processes enough to steer you just a little bit into the direction that you will be angry or dissatisfied.
So, therefore, you will generate that frequency, that energy that they feed on.
So, these creatures were basically telling me, like, okay, we remove this thing, but be careful.
Do not chill.
Don't get back to this particular frequency.
Be very conscious of it because they will be back.
Wow.
So that was a, you know, and they removed this thing and then after that, like, it was just gone.
Like a month worth of anger and unaccounted anger.
I don't know what I was angry about.
Or this anxiety.
I don't know.
I'm like, I have no problems.
I don't know what it is coming from.
So that's why this was strange.
And so I used NNDMT for this process and this is what happened.
And, you know, I don't care.
8 billion people can, you know, argue about this.
I don't give a crap.
This happened.
I experienced this.
I don't care what you got to say about this.
This happened to me.
And it's verifiable and I can verify it in the agreed upon reality right here.
I'm not anxious, not angry.
And I was for about a month, unexplainably.
So those are those experiences when we got to drop the anchor like, hey, it happened.
Nobody can take this away from me.
This happened.
So, like this was just an example of entities and how you know that process works in NNDMT.
For me, it's rare that I come across entities.
To me, it's a more of a cerebral, and there are places I go to.
Like, there is this place I would go to where I call it the ecstasy of existence.
Like, it's almost like a giant structure, and I am aware that there are a lot of beings in there, non formal.
Like these, these are not like the entity that kicked me out.
I had a full vision of, like a figure, right?
These are almost like non figurative or non like what would be the word for it?
They don't have a form, they don't, yeah, formless.
I just feel the energy.
And there are thousands of them in there just whirling.
And they're like in this state of ecstasy, of almost like they realize that we exist and how amazing that is.
And so generally, that's my process.
I go to the NN space.
With intention?
First, I body check.
The first hit is always, am I clear to go?
Meaning, you know, it's like Houston, all systems are good.
Are we angry?
Are we distracted?
Are we cool?
Am I sharp?
Am I focused?
This has to be the first.
So, I'm not distracted.
If I'm distracted with something, then I stay in this space.
I will not take a second hit.
I will stay there.
And then I simply can find this place and I go there and I just exist and there is this ecstasy sort of feeling.
And I know this place.
If my system check is not coming back clear, there's an engine light on, washer liquid missing, whatever the frick it is, right?
Then I'm staying here and I'm going to go to this place and I just have this renewed, happy sort of space and I just stay there.
If everything is cool, then we go further.
And in those processes, they are very cerebral.
It's rare for me that I see entities and encounters.
It's all these mental obstruct processes.
Now, 5M, yo, none of this happens.
This is an elevator straight up.
There is nothing in between.
It just goes to dissolution and entering this space where everything is just this one thing.
Yeah.
Dude, I mean, it's really cool to listen to you describe this stuff.
Like it seems like you're using it as a tool to enhance every part of your life.
Yes, absolutely.
And I mean, you're a great example of that just by the fact that all the things that you do and the success that you've had, it's just, it's so interesting to me.
Like, and you said, I think you said earlier that there's the, and I've described this to you too, like there's this lingering effect afterwards, after you do it maybe a few times and like when you get back into the real world where.
Maybe you're a little bit more tapped into something else, and maybe your antenna is a little stronger each time you do it.
That kind of helps you with solving problems.
Do you experience that?
Yes.
The form of that is so, so once you, this is a very similar space to where meditation takes you.
I just feel like this is a fast tracking, those things, right?
But it's very similar.
And you realize that what all this is about, um, Reinforcing and optimizing your being, not just your physical being, but your mental process and the witness.
The witness is that thing I told you about where I can, especially five a meal actually.
That's one space when it's very obvious.
Like you have your body, your mind, which is all the lexical data that you collected, what you were taught, all those things, all your experiences on this planet, how to operate.
Everything that you know about things is your mind.
But there's another layer, the witness, that sort of drives it all.
So I would, you know, people can call it the soul, the spirit, or whatever you want to call it, but there is this other thing that is just there, right?
And then you can be very aware of this differentiation.
Like my very first five years and years ago was, I definitely had had this experience of like, okay, my body and then my mind was freaking out.
Freaking out, like, oh, we're not going there.
Like, they knew that the road is ending for them.
Like, the body, like, I'm dying.
The mind is like, whoa, am I dissolving?
What's going to happen here?
Like, what happens to me?
That was that, you know, freak out.
And then, but then I noticed, but I am also witnessing all this.
And the witness was felt undestructible.
And later in, for, you know, many, many other 5MU experiences, I got to get a hold of that, like, okay, I got it.
I can't really die.
That this, the witness is permanent, right?
And so, that witness, that spirit, whatever you call it, that attention that is inherently you, you know, it's just no matter what happens, this exists.
And then the more you go there, the more obvious that this exists.
So, what are you going to get out of it?
One is that you stop being afraid of dying.
Because it's not just you think, I don't have to believe that I can die.
I know I can't.
Because I was there.
Well, the body can, but yes, but you know, but that thing can't, right?
And so you end.
That soul, you think that soul just gets put into another container?
Yes, and then you just, you know.
And then when you experience it, it's obvious.
Like you kind of laugh about or chuckle about, which I had, like, huh, that's funny.
Like I'm just laughing out loud while I'm in the space because it's funny.
Like how we didn't know that.
So there is that, that you reinforce that.
Understanding and when you stop being afraid of things, that's obviously helping.
So that's five meo um, and on end you have these these, these processes right, and in these processes you can optimize yourself.
Like there is, it's a very obvious like oh, how everything happens, even human emotions, and how they are structured right.
Like you have this moment of realizing that I exist, that flash of like I am, i'm here.
The very next feeling will be fear of losing That awareness of being.
And then you understand that every single thing that exists in human emotions is rooted in one of these existence and the fear of not existing.
And so, negative from jealousy to fear, everything that's negative in this yin and yang is connected to the fear of losing something, but ultimately your existence, ultimately your consciousness.
And everything that's positive is I exist.
And need to enjoy that love, care, all those belong to that.
And then the whole play is the interaction between these two.
Fear Rooted In Existence00:15:12
If I can tell you that existence, the one that the fear shadows, cannot be taken away from you, then now you can start knocking out these negatives.
Because if I don't have to be afraid of dying or non existing, then all these negatives that are rooted in the shadow of existence can be, you know, just throw them out.
not unnecessary, right?
And then beyond that, also there are processes that how repeatable miracles, right?
That's what I meant by it doesn't matter if I wanted to be a snowboard champion or a guitar player, the principles are the same, right?
And so you start to see the patterns of like, ah, that's how this works.
So yeah, there is definitely a weaponization for us.
You know what I mean?
Yes.
Of this, oh, okay.
I can do this and I can perform miracles, so to speak.
And then in the agreed upon reality space, you have to keep track of the miracles.
Because keep track of the miracles means something that you wanted happens.
Somebody you thought of shows up.
It happens to everyone.
Synchronicity and weird stuff, right?
And what happens, because we don't have a physical explanation, We don't have a rule set how that happened, or we just simply don't understand how they happen.
What happens, anything, you know, your mind can't hold two ideas that contradict each other.
It's not possible for you to believe and not believe at the same time.
This is why, also.
I don't know if I would agree with that.
Okay, fine.
Because here's what I'm going to say if you're an offense, you don't believe.
That's why.
So, my philosophical answer to that is that either you are in, if you have that, you're not in.
So, either, you know what I mean?
It's actually a Buddhist monk told me this.
He walked up to me on the street.
This freaking happened.
A Buddhist monk walks up to me on the street.
I just got initiated by these monks a month before.
It was a weird time in my life.
Monks in New York City, I lived in New York City at the time.
You know, the yellow robe tradition just walked up to me like, oh, hey, you look good.
Like they just knew.
This was the strangest thing.
Anyway, so my monk walks up to me and he goes, do you believe?
I'm like, well, I knew what he was asking.
You know, sometimes yes, sometimes no.
And he was like, well, you know, it's a yes and everything else around that is a no.
Sitting in a fence is a no.
Right.
It's either yes and everything else, you're obsolete or everything else is, you know.
So, anyway, so that's my opinion on it.
So, yeah, sure, sure.
In an instance, it might be right.
Yeah, I just feel like you can, you know, you can move between.
Right, pretty rapidly that can definitely happen.
That's yes, but but yeah, because new information will change what you know.
So, yes, I 100% agree with new information changes what you think instantly if you're not a rigid, you know, yeah, petrified person that is holding on to dogmatic crap, right?
Yeah, but you know, but beyond that, what I meant by holding on to your miracles is that when that happens, like I had a close encounter, right?
Which, if I told you, everybody would think this guy is crazy, right?
But it happened with witnesses, so it's crazy.
Your mind will try to find an explanation.
And if it can't, it will try to erase this because it contradicts your agreed upon reality.
So, what happens to all your miracles when you start thinking about them like five years from now?
Something crazy happened to you.
You start to question yourself Did that really happen?
Did I make it up?
Did I color this story?
Maybe I embellished it a little bit?
You start questioning your miracles.
And I think it's important that you write them down.
And hold on to them.
All the synchronicities, all the weird stuff, and man, you know, because what that teaches you, more and more happens, you're more and more open to accept them.
And more and more open to accept them, more and more happens.
Right?
Because you are open to that possibility.
You're noticing that channel, basically.
Yes.
Yeah.
So, what I get out of, I mean, I started with psychedelics in the mid 90s, right?
So, obviously, went down to the psilocybin and the LSD and all that experimenting.
And, you know, I never touched anything until I had a friend who was a professor and I highly respected him and he started to talk to me about it.
And I'm like, hmm, if this person that I highly respected, a massive intellectual giant, is talking about this, I need to understand what's happening here.
That's kind of what happened with psychedelics.
And then, so from the get go, I never went into that space with, like, hey, let's just get fucked up.
And, you know, that was never, I don't do that.
It was always intentional and it always, as a, I always took it, I'm an explorer and I'm going to sail west and let's see if we find a continent.
You know what I mean?
Like, that was always my thing.
So that was always my relation with this.
And because of that, I came into this with a scientific mind.
And the explorer's mind.
And so that means you observe, you stay pragmatic, take notes, find patterns.
That's how I approach it.
And so that's what I've been doing for decades after decades.
And so my relation is dot to the space.
And so because my relationship was dot instead of like, woohoo, party, eventually I could create these structures like, okay, I see processes.
Okay, this works.
Oh, I can use this.
And you know what I mean?
And what that happens, what it does, it modifies 100% who I am.
In fact, I don't think I'm the same person.
I would go as far as if you can modify yourself genetically, turn on certain genes and turn off certain genes, I'm pretty sure that I have.
Right.
And then I, of course, and I went down to the transcendental meditation and all that stuff as well, parallel to this.
You know, like you go into that space and with a flashlight, let's see who I am.
Everything, all the corners, leave nothing unturned.
Because I have to look at everything that ever happened to me, everything that ever taught to me and told me was embedded when I was a kid.
Is the data real?
Did I understand it correctly, first and foremost?
And was that real?
Is that real?
Is it verifiable?
You were taught, like, don't cross your eyes because it stays that way.
Is that true?
Right.
So, I mean, the dumbest little things, everything that was taught.
To me, I had to go through that process and discover that.
Is it real or should I discard?
That's the point of that.
So I transcend into a different person everything that you know, and it's a little bit of a in between transcendental meditation and and the recapitulation of the Carlos Castadino sort of uh the, the man of knowledge of the Mesoamerican tribes, how they were handling that.
There is a process like how to clean house, so this is the, the big cleaning house, and so I went through that, and so the combination of Exploring new territories through psychologists and psychedelics, and going through traditional, well, traditional in quotes, actually,
processes of meditation and the cleaning house, the recapitulation process of let's change who I am, let's optimize, let's build, you know, Warhammer 40k, right?
Like, let's rebuild, let's build a machine, let's build a war machine that's conscious and can do these things.
And how I can make, I can give you examples like how.
Just one of them, right?
So, how crazy this process is.
Since I was a kid, once I started playing guitar, every time I tuned my guitar, I kind of leaned away from the guitar.
I had this fear of the guitar strings break and hit me in the face.
I had this fear.
And so I always stayed away from it.
I did that my whole life until I find why I'm doing it.
So when I was a kid, somewhere around six, seven years old, we used to have a commercial on TV when the logo was playing a violin, right?
And then playing something, and out of sudden, like you can't ping that the string breaks, right?
And then the violin goes, you know, just because she broke a string.
And it was a life insurance commercial, right?
The metaphor was that anything can happen in life, and we have this in my language, it makes all the sense that the string of life can break, and you know, you need life insurance.
A six year old not going to understand this concept, right?
All I saw.
String breaks and the little girl that's playing the violin now needs life insurance.
What happened to her?
So, ever since I'm tuning my guitar, leaning away from the guitar because that thing was in there, I was not aware of this until I'm doing my recapitulations, my transcendental meditation.
And as I said, it's a big flashlight, you're finding all the dumb shit that you ever thought of, or did, or been taught of.
And so, I found this like, oh, that's why you're doing that.
You don't have to do that.
That was a metaphor.
Throw that.
Yes.
So that's an actual example of what kind of stuff you find.
There's the craziest stuff is in there.
Like imagine you and your personality was formed in the first six, seven years of your life.
By who?
People were saying they didn't want to tell you the truth because you were a kid.
So parents were, teachers were all lying to you about stuff because they didn't want to tell you the truth.
You know, like babies come with a bird and dropped in the chimney, whatever the hell they were telling you, right?
Wait, what are you trying to say?
Yeah, right.
You have a bird on the way.
See what I mean?
So there's dumb stuff that was taught to you, and there are irrational fears that were, you know, all that stuff.
You become a person, and the personality of yours was constructed in a time when you were not really conscious of that, right?
So it's kind of unbeknown to you who you are.
And that's a point.
Let's go back.
And I feel like psychedelics are supercharging that.
Like, I can really look at things like what's going on here?
Who am I?
How do I modify this person into the most optimal form?
The reason that what you're saying right now stands out to me is super important is because this is actually something that people can verify for themselves easily, even in the crazier ways, not in the like the because what you everything you just said can still be folded into kind of like the psychoanalytical frame.
But even in the crazier things, like people don't necessarily have to go into psychedelics because.
To be fair, there are worse things than not existing, like suffering forever.
So, you know, there are worse things, right?
But, no, but, and I take the fear, but everything that Zoltan did in his life revolved around a simple attitude, which is, I'm going to find out for myself.
And I think that is such an important thing to emphasize.
Recently, I told this to Zoltan yesterday.
This was told to me by a friend of mine and he read it somewhere.
So I'm definitely cutting somebody out from the chain of commands that actually ordered the idea.
But it's a cool experiment.
A friend, Nico, told me about it.
Basically, you sit down in the house before you do some mundane task, bank, store, whatever it is that you're about to do.
Okay.
Sit down, close your eyes for a second.
Envision yourself with everything you're wearing as accurately as possible where you're going to be.
If it's at the bank in front of the teller doing whatever you're doing.
Okay.
If it's at the store, maybe the cashier doing the checkout, whatever it is that you're going to be doing.
Envision yourself there and then say, please deliver me there safely.
Simple.
Then when you're at that spot standing in front of the teller in the bank, you don't have to close your eyes, obviously.
You don't look retired, but tell.
Envision yourself on that couch 10 minutes earlier sitting there, talk to yourself in the past, say thank you for delivering me here safely.
So what's interesting is that you basically create a portal you communicate to existence.
I understand how this works, I know.
At the moment, from my limited perspective, I think of it as like oh, what do you mean?
I just got up and I went to the bank.
No, it's an occurrence.
That happened because you had an aim, you had a vision, you stayed with it.
It's a simple one that you do all the time and you can accomplish easily, but you signifying that you understand how it actually works, Which is you have an intention, you have an energy, you're putting into the intention, and you're staying on it for a particular amount of time until it occurs exactly how you wanted it to happen.
You don't necessarily know how you're moving your hand or moving your body, or you just kind of accept it to be true.
But what actually happened when you wanted to go to the bank is that you had all these ideas about going there, and then you had an impulse, and you stayed with that impulse.
The point is that when you start communicating to yourself across time this way, quote unquote, you're starting showing, wait, can I do this?
With a thing that I don't necessarily expect to happen.
This is where you start playing with it.
This is what I mean by anybody can verify this.
The practice is that you're supposed to be expanding the amount of miracles or synchronicities that can happen to you, and you can test this.
So then you go, okay, next time I'm going to the bank, I'm going to imagine, I'm going to do the same, deliver me there safely, but I'm also going to envision something that might not happen.
Like I'm going to see somebody with a pink hat or something.
If you show up to the bank and somebody has.
Even close, something pink, distinctly pink on their head, go, Oh, interesting.
Thank you for delivering me here safely.
Also, yes, interesting.
And then you start playing with it.
Okay, how far can I take this?
I'm going to the bank.
I'm going to meet somebody on the way and I'm going to have some kind of a big life change.
And you start believing in it because you're like, Yeah, well, dude, that was crazy.
Like, why would they have a pink thing on their head?
And now you start playing with it.
Try this.
Try this.
Anybody can try this.
Testing the matrix.
I had this dude on here, Eric Wargo, who wrote a book called Time Loops.
Have you heard of it?
No.
Fascinating book he wrote about basically the idea of how time is like a loop.
And what he started doing was he started recording his dreams down, and then shit that was happening in his dreams was happening in his future.
Testing The Matrix Together00:14:02
Right?
So, like, and then he also points out all these times in history where people had dreams that actually happened, like where people like that were like jotting down their dreams had.
Things happen.
For example, and even around big events, the Titanic, there were multiple people who had dreams about the Titanic sinking, even somebody who wrote a book about it right before it happened.
There was during what?
Right before.
Yeah.
That's a thing.
Pull it up, Steve.
Steve's got it.
That's crazy.
Also, before 9 11, there were hundreds and hundreds of people who woke up and talked about having dreams about towers being taken down by airplanes before 9 11 happened.
And, like, the idea is that the future predicts the past as well as the other way, as well as the other way around.
It's one system that communicates to itself across all time back and forth and just one block.
Yeah.
Right.
Or there is no time.
Or there is no time, and it's just one block.
So, like, if you know, or if your future self is.
Is projecting, is somehow communicating with your past self, saying, like, oh, I'm successful.
I've done all these things.
I've achieved all these amazing things.
You somehow have this intuition that, like, I need to become this.
This is what I like, this intuitive thing you can't really describe that you know is your path and your journey, right?
But what it really is, is your future self communicating with you.
And he has this whole, I'm fucking this up a little bit.
No, no, I'm in full agreement with that.
And I think it's just that the more you have these check marks of, like, yeah, that worked.
Again, in Zoltan's example, it's very pronounced because he knew he was going to be a rock star when he was like 14, right?
Right.
So, but he knew.
It's not like he just postulated.
He communicated that across time to say, I know that well enough to know that just to step into that frame.
Is there a world line for a version of Zoltan that didn't get there?
Yes.
It's the one that didn't postulate it strongly enough.
Right.
So now that sounds like one of these, oh, parallel universes.
Right.
Test it.
Multiverse.
Try it.
It's not, it costs you nothing to try this, right?
And I promise you there's going to be something there that's going to occur.
And again, don't fall into any like silly trap of like, well, you know, I wanted to see some silly head, but somebody, then I went outside and on the way back home, I saw a pink bubble gum.
That doesn't count.
Like, be fair with the, you know, with your assessments.
Right.
But the more you're fair with your assessments and like you're a better manifester.
Yeah.
It's just that you're better at envisioning things and connecting to them in a way that will actually make it happen.
And when you pay more attention to them, they have more.
And I gave the, fine, just Google the book, Steve.
Google the Titanic book that came out before the Titanic sunk.
Sorry.
You want to water something?
Mm hmm.
Steve, we grabbed a liquid death.
Liquid death.
Before, so I was explaining this thing that happened to me recently where I'll get you the water.
Right.
I, there's this dude who is friends.
We got any left?
You.
Yes.
Nice.
Thanks, Steve.
Thank you.
Awesome.
There's this guy who's my dad.
Worked at the post office with forever, and I see the guy.
You know, sometimes when I go to my parents' house, he's there.
I see him maybe like three times a year, something like that, right?
He's just like this funny New Yorker guy.
I never think about him.
I mean, that's mean to say, but I don't really.
He's he's like he's on the very far periphery of like people in my life, right?
Not somebody I think about every day.
I happened to be driving home one day, and I random thought popped into my head about him, like his voice popped into my head saying, I was imagining how he would react to something I knew it was going to happen.
In the future, like I knew I was going to see him in the near future, and I was just thinking about like what our interaction would be so random, it popped into my head.
No reasonable explanation to why that thought popped into my head.
10 seconds later, he calls me.
Right?
The dude's called me five times in the last 15 years.
Those are the miracles I'm saying that you have to keep track of, so your mind does not delete them as unexplainable phenomena because your mind is not comfortable.
That's why I kind of said that.
You know, it doesn't like conflicting information.
And in our everyday reality, we're not talking about miracles.
We're not talking about these things.
It's not a thing that everybody just agrees.
So it kind of goes against the grain of general agreed upon reality, but they happen.
And so the more you keep track of them, the more you solidify no, no, no, that happened, that happened.
Do not erase this data, this, do not bleach bit or whatever.
Keep this data, right?
The more you have, the more accustomed you are to the miracles.
And so the more you can perform.
And once you accomplish a bunch of impossible things, In turn, any task is in front of you, you're no longer thinking about, which is the enemy.
You're no longer going to have doubts.
Oh, I'm going to do that.
I have no doubts.
That's what Danny was referring to.
We had this conversation that, when did you know?
And I'm like, I was a kid.
I knew exactly what I was going to do.
There was never a moment in my life and I thought it might not happen.
Never.
Not for a second.
And I would say that it's the weaponization of your intent.
So intent is a really interesting thing because let's say to give you a.
Pragmatic example.
You get up in the morning and say, I'm going to go get some bread.
That's my intent.
I'm going to go and get bread.
You get in your car, you get a phone call from your friend, he gets a flat tire.
Well, I'm going to go help him.
Then some time passed, and are you hungry?
Yeah, sure, let's go eat.
Like you go to eat.
So, as you see, the path is now really convoluted, all over a city.
As long as you didn't forget for a second that you left your house for bread, right?
You're good.
Because the The path to success is not a straight line.
The path to achieving the things you want is not a straight line.
Life will knock you around.
But the important part is that vision, the intent has to stay there, unfazed.
That light is there forever until you achieve that.
And then once you achieve that, check mark, I got it.
You fulfill that cycle.
And then you probably have more goals, more things that you want to do.
And every single time you fulfill one, you check mark those.
And keep track of them.
I did that.
I did that.
That was impossible.
Yet we hear all those miracles.
And then what happens, that's just the record keeping for your own mind.
So you're not habitually delete these things and you believe in your own miracles.
But in turn, what happens to you is that whatever vision I have, whatever I want to do, I don't have the automatic question of, yeah, but that's not possible.
That's maybe too difficult.
Oh, it's going to cost a lot of money.
Oh, I don't know the right people.
I don't have those thoughts.
Zero.
Silence.
I have a goal, I focus on it, and I'm going to go and get it.
Right.
I don't have the doubt process.
Yes.
And the reason I don't have the doubt process is because since I was a kid, I'm practicing this keep track of the miracles.
And there's a state of mind and being that amplifies these things.
So definitely with DMT and with certain meditative states.
I don't know if you know this, but all the participants in the DMTX study in Imperial College.
I hope I'm not confabulating this, but I'm pretty sure that Alexander Boehner in his book, The Bigger Picture, is describing, he was one of the test subjects, and he is talking about, I think he said all of them experienced an incredible uptake in these synchronicities even before they started the actual tests.
So, like, I think it was like a month before that they all started experiencing crazy synchronicities during and a few months after it would like tapered off.
And when you are in certain, like, I guess calm states, or like after deep meditative states, all of a sudden, all of these things are much more pronounced.
You can see them, but at the same time, you see that you just flow through them.
You're not even trying to grab them or anything like this.
There's this thing that people call Burning Man magic.
It's a real thing.
It's like when people go to Burning Man, there's this insane uptake in synchronicities that happen there that are way outside of the realm of just chance.
And I think it's because everybody are kind of in a particular state that it just kind of makes these things happen.
But again, this is anybody can test this.
You know, Ricky Gervais famously said, I don't know why, because he started kind of late in his life.
And he said, I don't know why, but I always, I just knew it's all going to be all right.
Like I don't never, even when we had no money, like I was just like, isn't it weird?
It's like something when you have this knowledge, like this, this, this.
Deep knowing of what's going to happen, right?
How it's going to end up.
It dictates your actions to get there, right?
It dictates every move you make in your life.
I have a similar feeling when I was young, which is what I think is the reason that in my life, when I have big goals that I want to do or to achieve, the analogy I use is I always do.
Dove into the swimming pool before it was full of water, and I would just fucking like I would have to make sure or somehow believe that that water would fill up before I got in the pool.
Where I like I make the big leap, right?
Knowing that it's possible it's that I could land and lose every I could miss my mark and lose everything, but I'm like fucking hoping to God that I'm gonna land on solid ground, you know.
And I always find a way to land on solid ground, and I don't like, I always take the risk.
You burn the boat.
And there are the patterns again.
Right, right, yes.
Yeah, burn out all the boats.
But there are the patterns again.
Look at the patterns.
Yeah.
The pattern is like, let's say we talk about creative visualization.
It's a thing.
People talk about it.
Books were written about it.
The principles are the same, right?
The universe yields to willpower, right?
Countless books about that, countless thoughts about that.
If you look at the underlying patterns again, you're going to find, oh, there is something here, right?
And And so, again, to weaponize it and make it in a pragmatic, practical practice, there is something about falling one side of this fence.
Either you are happening to this world, or this world is happening to you.
And it's a mind state, and you have to make a choice.
And if typically, when people, you know, if I come from a pragmatic perspective, which that's the side I live on, and that's the choice I made.
I was born into this world.
Allegedly, it was here before I came.
We don't know, actually.
But allegedly, there's a history.
Allegedly, it's not a software that was downloaded into me.
It's not like I just started to play Call of Duty and all the buildings were there for whatever reason because a programmer put it there.
So you could argue about was it really here?
But let's say I was born into this world, the world was already here.
That means I am impacting this world.
Whatever I'm going to say, do, whatever activities I'm going to have in this world, I am changing now its course because I'm here.
Right, someone impact her, right?
And if I take that side and I accept it, like okay, that means I it also comes with responsibility, whatever I'm gonna do will affect permanently this physical reality and it will have long lasting impact, right?
So I'm responsible for the things I will say and do in this world.
That's one side, or well, you know, the victim mentality of like I'm here and why did this happen to me?
Why me?
Why me?
There's there, and if you look at people, they fall on one.
Side of the story.
The victim mentality is: I'm here, all these things are happening to me.
And I see why it's easy to take that side because data is flying at you 24 7.
So, because you're the perceiver, it's easy to take that stance.
Like, I'm here and I'm perceiving all these things and all these things are happening and all these things happen to me and stub my toe and it's your fault.
I'm not the couch, right?
And the people do this to me and that.
And then you pick that side.
And so, you are now a traveler.
You're not a traveler, a passenger.
You're a passenger in this.
And generally, those people don't really go far in life.
You're a passenger, you're a victim.
Or you say, No, no, no, I'm here.
You guys have to live with me now.
I'm here.
I arrived.
And you know, it sounds like, well, that's an egoistic point of view.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I am here.
That's what the ego, I am.
I'm here and I am going to impact this world and I'm going to live by my rules as much as possible.
I'm going to do the things I want to do.
Right.
And if you are solid in that side, you will succeed.
You have to because you also take responsibility.
Like anything that happened to me, right, is my fault or my achievement.
If I was on the wrong place in the wrong time, even not, some sign I missed, something I didn't read, some, some, I was there.
I got myself there.
I didn't accidentally appear somewhere out of nowhere without my will being involved.
So I take full responsibility for everything there is in my life, right?
That mentality, that sort of, that path will.
That will make you successful.
Unbending Intent For Success00:04:46
There's no other way.
And now, couple that with this idea of unbending intent.
Whatever I focus on now, I'm not going to take my eyes off of it.
Even though I'm understanding that I will have to do a million other things, but not for a second I forget I'm going for the bread that I ended in the morning.
You still left the house to go get that bread.
And all these things, you can find it through, again, meditation or the spiritual processes, right?
Or you can shortcut it because you can find it in those spiritual realms through psychedelics as well.
And the two together are actually pretty powerful because one enforces the other, one verifies the other.
And then you always have this world, this agreed upon reality when I can check it.
Did this work?
Right?
It wasn't like, well, let me read your palm and, you know, and then this is, no, this is verifiably, I wanted to do that happen.
I wanted to experience that, experience that.
And then the more and more you have, the more and more will happen.
You just open the door for that.
That's an actual mechanical process.
Well, guys, we just did a four hour podcast.
No way.
Really?
Yeah.
Oh, my God.
Oh, my God.
I think that's a perfect spot to end this.
Yeah.
I didn't realize it.
This is fucking a mind melt of a conversation, man.
I appreciate you guys both for coming to doing this.
Thank you, brother.
Thank you for having us.
It was fucking awesome meeting you, brother.
Yeah.
Thank you, brother.
Thank you for having us.
Yeah.
Yes.
Of course.
Tell people where they can find out the next thing you're doing with the DMTX experiment and, or not the DMTX experiment, the laser coded reality experiment.
So they can always go to the website codeofreality.com.
We have a new website coming up right now and Dango Thoughts on YouTube.
D A N G O Thoughts.
And Code of Reality Inc. is basically going to be now an official thing and we're going to be working to actually. you know, bringing the right kind of minds together.
We have incredible minds coming into the space from literally, well, I don't know how many of them I can talk about yet, but from scientists to people who are like, you know, like just higher level thinkers and software engineers.
And like we really have incredible people that are coming online.
And we're very excited about bringing everybody together and encouraging more entities around us to also do more of the same, more of like investigative processes that are more open minded and more also, I guess, Open hearted, so not so much rigid with what they believe is true, including more things.
Um, and Zoltan, I mean, Zoltan, uh, I mean, I guess you're a famous person, but where can people find your?
We need to get your band some more views.
Where can we?
Uh, it is a very family friendly name of five finger dead punch, actually came from a kung fu movie, but you know, it's a manifestation of all these things.
Well, I, yes, and no, I mean.
It's uh, there was an old kung fu movie, Five Fingers of Death.
Oh, and then and then remember the the five what was it, the five point exploding heart technique in uh, Heel Bill, right?
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I was literally watching that movie and I'm like, man, that sounds so ridiculous, it should be a band name.
So here we are, right?
So, so you look at it and the dot com wasn't taken because it was so crazy, right?
So, it's both the best and the worst band name on the planet, you know, because it's pretty incredible, you know, when some old lady sitting next to me, right.
Some old lady sitting next to me on the airport and ask me, like, oh, you look like a musician.
I'm like, oh, here we go.
I'm going to have to tell her, you know, so I'm going to preface it, like, so do you know what Kung Fu is?
Because otherwise you get the faces.
But look, yes, that's the manifestation of all that, what we are talking about.
So that's a vehicle for me.
But what Danny was saying, I would add to that, like, that's exactly what has to happen.
I think we need to achieve a critical mass.
That means high achievers and high level thinkers, you know.
The intellectual giants need to come together and explore this.
There are a lot of people involved, there are a lot of them who are already there, and most of them will not yet speak out.
Like, I was silent about it for over two decades because it just wasn't the time.
There was not a you know, right now we can talk about you know, uh, encounters with extraterrestrials, and people no longer think that you're crazy.
20 years ago, right?
Intellectual Giants Explore Reality00:01:39
You definitely were.
I had experiences that had witnesses, and we were like, Holy cow, this is actually happening!
Right, that 20 years ago I couldn't even open my mouth about, yeah.
And then, so this psychedelic space was kind of similar.
So, as I said, we're reaching that space where end of childhood, and then we need to pull together the people so we can create and achieve the critical mass.
And we start to define the agreed upon rules or reality of that space the same way we define what this is.
Right, there are rules there, there are happenings that and visions and.
Things that we see and experience that are verifiable by a massive amount of people.
So that means there is a rule set.
This is real.
There is something here that is important.
And what's more important than trying to find these answers?
Why are we here?
What is happening?
What is perception?
What is going on?
Really, that is the underlying question on everything else, everything that exists around us from science to everything.
Is basically a form of discovery of that very basic original question.
What is going on?
What is this?
Why?
What are we?
Why?
What's our purpose?
Dot.
I don't think there is a more important question than that.
I agree.
I think what you guys are doing is really pushing the conversation forward in a big, big, big way.
So we should definitely do this again down the road, man.