Jack Kruse, Calley Means, and Mary Bowden clash over whether the primary health crisis stems from ultra-processed foods or mRNA vaccines containing SV40 promoters. While the Means sisters allege pharmaceutical corruption and globalist manipulation via the World Economic Forum, Kruse accuses them of bad faith for rejecting immediate vaccine bans despite their own safety concerns. The debate intensifies with claims of 17 million vaccine-related deaths, undisclosed DNA plasmids hidden from the FDA, and accusations that medical freedom is being subverted by centralized elites, leaving listeners to question if transparency or radical policy shifts can dismantle this alleged conspiracy. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, WAV2VEC2_ASR_BASE_960H, sat-12l-sm, script v26.04.01, and large-v3-turbo
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Holistic Poisoning of America00:06:51
Non native EMFs, baby.
Okay.
Wow.
All right.
Are we rolling?
All right, everybody.
Thank you for coming.
I'm glad we were able to make this happen.
Jack, welcome back.
Thank you.
Mary, nice to meet you.
Nice to meet you.
Callie, nice to meet you.
Good to see you.
So we wanted to make this happen.
Jack, you were here about two weeks ago.
Two months ago.
Yeah, that's what I meant to say.
Two months ago.
And ever since then, And I think even before then, you have been fired up to say the least about Callie and his sister Casey and some of the messaging that they are pushing on various podcasts and social media.
They are talking a lot about the hyper processed foods and pharma.
And you've been questioning, I think, a lot to do with their background, where they come from, and their messaging in particular.
And Callie, I think that you feel that some of the stuff Jack's saying is untrue and in bad faith.
Essentially, you hit me up about two weeks ago saying you'd be more than like a month ago.
Like a month ago.
Yeah.
You contacted me and said, I'll come to a podcast with Jack.
Let's try to get in the room and try to hash this stuff out in real time.
Well, to be honest, initially, what I saw is the discussions you were having about ultra processed food not being part of the solution, light, which I think is a very important part and is more of a scientific thing.
So that's when I initially, about a month ago, I mean, there's definitely been, frankly, more personal things, which we can talk about as much as we want.
I think the science part is interesting too.
I hit you up before seeing a lot of the personal attacks.
Still wanted to do this.
I mean, I think a lot of people are skeptical.
This was your idea.
Oh, yeah.
Well, to engage on the.
Right.
And I've been chatting with Mary about various things in good faith, I think.
But yes, their personal attacks are what it is.
We can talk about that as much as you want.
I don't think they're personal attacks.
Okay.
Okay.
But I think there's a massive moment in the country right now where I think we probably all agree that there's a historic opportunity to maybe reset the agenda on health.
I think there's great opportunity.
I think that's part of the problem.
Yeah, I think there's great opportunity and great.
There's a lot of opportunity.
Yeah, there's opportunity, but I don't think the opportunity is being taken to the forefront by you or your sister by pushing the food issue.
The big opportunity right now, why people are dying is SV40 is the jabs.
And to cut straight to the chase, you and your sister wrote the book.
Tell us why the word vaccine doesn't show up one time in the book.
Okay, so let's back up.
There's an opportunity in this country right now, in my opinion, to talk about the holistic poisoning of the American people.
Okay, but we just came off of the biggest.
Hold on, hold on.
Let me answer the question.
We have to let each other talk and breathe.
It's hard to do with four people.
So we're just going to make sure that we give everyone a chance to speak and then we take our turns to try not to talk over each other because it makes it unlistenable for people that are listening.
So, I'm going to tell you what my story is and how I see this opportunity and what I've been doing.
And you guys can tell me if you disagree or agree, and we can go from there if that works.
Okay.
So, my mom, as you know, died.
You've been talking about my mom.
And I believe that she is a product of what's happening in general to Americans, to the average American, which is we have a holistic set of hijacking of our cells and mitochondria.
And in our book, we talk a lot about over pharmaceuticals and the corruption of the pharmaceutical industry.
And I think the mandates and vaccines and what happened during COVID, as I've said for years, is one of the greatest scandals in American history.
I think COVID was the single worst public policy mistake of my lifetime.
And that includes the mandates on the vaccines.
That includes the lockdowns which set a generation of kids back.
It's absolutely a war crime.
And I think we're going to be dealing with that for a generation and still unpacking it.
And there was a wild report that came out just a couple of days ago.
I think my mom and kids and the average American, I think their circadian rhythm is being hijacked.
I think light is a huge issue.
It's something that we talked about in the book an entire chapter.
I think, Jack, your insights on that are.
Extraordinary and mind bending.
And I think it's obvious that what's happening to our circadian rhythm is dramatically impacting our hormones.
I mean, I was just with a friend who's raising chickens, and in order to have them laid two times more eggs, they just turn the lights on.
And we're doing crazy stuff to humans.
And obviously, that's messing with our hormones to a significant degree.
I think that sedentary lifestyle and the fact that a child in a school gets less time outside and less time active than a maximum security prism is a huge issue.
And We think food's a big issue.
I mean, I think in ways we don't even understand about the toxins and the science experiments happening with our food.
And I think all those things came together for my mom and are coming together for a lot of different Americans.
And the book was about this multifaceted threats the American people are facing.
And because of the pharmaceutical industry, I think corruption that profits from sick kids, that basically is incentivized for a child to get sick very young.
To poison those kids.
I think that's what the incentives in this country are.
It's super dark.
And, you know, that message that, you know, came together for my sister after leaving the medical system inspired me a lot, you know, that came together after my mom's death is why we wrote that book.
And just to get into what, you know, you've been saying, Jack, I started talking about that a couple years ago.
And Tucker Carlson's producer DM'd me on Twitter.
About two years ago, I went on his show on Fox.
My sister's been doing podcasts for years.
And then I went and chatted more and more about this and started unpacking this issue a multifaceted attack on ourselves from the incentives of our medical system.
And you guys talk about jumping on the scene or whatever.
My sister and I went on to Tucker Carlson's podcast a while back.
It was the most shared podcast of the year.
And we wrote a book that has sold a lot.
And We have been, I've been working to get this message out.
And I think that Bobby Kennedy being on the national stage is a miracle.
And I think that President Trump talking about these issues at a high level is a miracle.
Absolute Transparency Needed00:06:23
And I think it's bipartisan because a lot of these issues used to be talked about on the left.
So I think that's a great thing.
And that's where I come at it from.
So I think the stack ranking.
You know, Mary, I'll turn to you, but like, I think my story on you is that you've seen a lot of pain and a lot of really bad situations and harrowing patient stories.
I mean, we are coming off of the biggest public health crisis in our lifetime.
And, you know, while I completely agree with your message, I mean, our food supply is has a lot to be desired, it is, it's an insidious.
Health problem that's poisoning our kids.
I completely agree with that.
But the COVID shots are a more immediate and dangerous threat to our population.
Children are still getting the shots today, which I think is a crime.
All babies, all babies, this is our own government, are recommended to get three mRNA shots, and this is synthetic modified mRNA shots by the time they're nine months old.
Right.
And we know that we have.
An abundance of data.
We have over 3,400 peer reviewed published studies showing adverse reactions.
We know that in young people, the increased risk of myocarditis is at least four times.
This is an immediate threat, and these COVID shots should have been pulled off the market a long time ago.
And my feeling is if you have a large microphone and you are in the public health space, that you are ethically obligated to speak out about this issue.
And I understand that this is not your issue.
And we've talked about this.
I mean, the trans problem is not my issue.
But I authentically feel that this gender modification in children is wrong.
So I do speak out about it.
I authentically feel that in any way pushing COVID jabs, particularly on kids, is an absolute war crime.
And I've been saying that.
I don't even feel like the COVID shots should be pulled off the market.
So that is not a policy stance that I'm going to say.
It's not a policy stance that I'm going to say.
Are you giving your children the shot?
Are you going to give your child?
Okay, and why not?
I think that that makes no sense.
Why not?
Because you have reluctance about their safety.
Hold on.
Right?
Hold on.
Can I respond to this?
Yeah.
So, this issue of over prescribing medications for kids, the vaccine schedule for kids, specifically COVID.
Let's talk about COVID.
Hold on.
You seem to be drawing a line of whether I'm calling for an immediate ban as a policy platform.
Versus what I'm saying.
Personally, just personally.
Personally, personally, I think it's an absolute travesty how we've been misled, how these were fast tracked.
Personally, do you feel like the COVID shot should be pulled off the market?
Yes or no?
I'll give you my personal opinion.
I think there should be absolutely no mandates.
So, yes.
Hold on.
Hold on.
Okay.
I think that we have an opportunity in the next year to truly reset science.
This is what I feel.
And we have an opportunity.
To have Jay Bhattacharya, who's a close friend who I, you know, strongly push to be at the NIH, to call everyone together, review the science, have truth and reconciliation, bring that out to people, and have a process for that.
So I think it's a general.
So, Jack, the answer is no.
The answer is no.
That is a policy position that I'm calling for the COVID shots to be immediately pulled from the market.
No, you're not answering the question.
You're doing exactly what you're training.
Hold on, Jack.
That's the reason we're sitting here.
Jack, Jack.
I am saying that as a policy position, I think that we should have absolute data transparency.
No mandates.
We have too much data.
Okay, okay, okay, Jack.
Danny just had Kevin McKiernan on the Jack podcast.
Let me talk, Jack.
You let me talk now.
Hold on, hold on.
You let me talk.
Let me ask you a question.
Let me ask you a question.
And this is not like a debate.
I don't see this as a debate.
I actually legitimately.
I don't think it's a debate either.
Hold on, Jack.
Why are you so angry?
Because I don't trust you.
Okay.
I think you're full of shit.
And Mary just uncovered why you're full of shit.
Because you can't say yes or no.
Let me just tell you something, Callie.
When you say to the American public that my children can't have the shot, so we can't say anything for anybody else, to me, that's incongruous.
So you would argue that Trump and Biden should come out, Trump and RFK should come out with an immediate ban of the COVID shot today.
Absolutely.
It should have been done a long time ago.
My point is, is that your recommendation?
It should have happened with Operation Warp Speed.
It should have happened in the first month.
Correct.
I think as a policy process, we need to have truth and record.
Let's talk about the policy process of the swine flu when we had 70%.
Vaccine injured kids, and we pulled it off the market.
Hold on, hold on.
What is the debate?
I'm saying there should be an immediate review of the data.
That's not the answer.
I'm giving my answer.
Yeah, but that's not the answer.
Let me finish this off.
I'm giving my answer.
And then I sincerely want to hear from you if you are giving a presentation to the administration, what your detailed argument would be to pull the shots universally today.
And that's not like a debate.
I actually want to understand what my answer right now is.
Is that the mandates, especially for kids, the mandates in general are an absolute crime.
The way science has been hidden on this is a crime.
The way they've been fast tracked and pushed is a crime.
The way they have been covering up other things and posting this is a crime.
But we shouldn't pull it.
Hold on.
And that my policy process would be absolute transparency.
Absolute transparency.
Do you know how many people died in the first month following the rollout of the COVID shots?
Yes or no?
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Walking Through Immediate Steps00:02:15
Yes or no?
Jack.
What's the number?
Jack, what's the animosity?
You're a lobbyist, guy.
No, Let's go.
Jack, what's with the animosity?
Dude, I told you already.
I don't trust you worth a damn.
Okay.
Why?
Well, hold on.
Can we?
Do you know how many people died the first month?
No.
700.
And that's that were reported to be 10x compared to the swine flu that was pulled in 76.
Jack, what would be your argument if you're talking theoretically to a leader who's making this decision?
I just gave it to you.
What would the 10x change?
Walk the listeners through, like for the immediate.
I don't want to walk the listeners through.
I want to walk you through.
Walk me through.
Jack, I'm not making these decisions.
I got news for you.
I got news for you.
The way you've sold yourself to the people in DC.
No.
Would say otherwise.
No, nobody.
Nobody said that.
I got news for you.
I happen to know that's true.
Okay.
So I think you might be getting bad information, but I don't think so.
I think you are.
But what is the argument?
This is like, this isn't a debate.
Like, we should get this out.
Like, well, we would if you just said yes, but we're not.
Did I want to immediately ban the shots?
Correct.
That's the answer.
I don't think that's what the science says.
That's not the policy of ours today.
That's not the policy of Trump.
Okay.
Okay.
So, RFP doesn't want to pull the COVID shots.
No, he's not calling to immediately pull it.
He's calling for utter truth.
J Bot is charging for utter truth.
That is what I think we have an opportunity to do.
I am, I'm not calling the shots in any way, shape, or form, but I am very passionate, Jack, about transformational change right now and coming up with recommendations for true transformational change.
I think the way to change the paradigm on this stuff is, to be frank, absolutely not coming out with immediate bans on things like this.
Hold on.
I think it is having a national conversation and a reset of science and having a full truth and unbiased science.
We all know, we both know that the truth right now is that they're not asking these questions and there's huge cover up of getting the right information and getting the right data.
We all know that.
Ending Medical Cover Ups00:09:03
We all know that they've already made recommendations to the American people for kids and that there's huge institutional pressure to have any data.
That second guesses the guidance that they've already given to people's children.
Imagine, I see it, right?
I know about this from my experience, Jack.
There's incredible institutional pressure to have anyone look.
Imagine the liability of that.
Imagine the liability if the data you're talking about actually comes out.
So that's what we're, hold on, that's what we're, that's what we're, this is infuriating.
I think the data's been sitting there for years now.
Walk us through it.
Hold on a second.
I think the obvious biggest problem with this is that.
Nobody can be informed on the truth about it because I can have somebody in here like Kevin McKiernan, who's an expert in this stuff, and then YouTube will pull the thing off of the internet.
Which has happened.
Which just happened.
So there's no transparency on one side.
Anybody who questions these products on the internet gets completely silenced.
I think that is the number one issue, which is like crime.
We're not going out and banning Froot Loops.
Everybody knows Froot Loops are bad for you, everybody knows smoking Newports are bad for you.
But people should be banned.
You have a choice to do it and a choice not to do it.
And I want to say something about RO.
Because we have been fighting so hard the last four years to get this information out to the public.
Kennedy was our big hope.
Kennedy was finally, he was the one that's going to get in a position of power.
And even if he didn't win the presidency, he has this gigantic microphone.
And then all of a sudden, his message shifts, his focus shifts.
He's our nuclear bomb.
We're in World War III.
He's going to take down Japan.
All of a sudden, The nuclear bomb, the target has shifted to food.
And Nicole came on and talked a lot about food.
Let me finish.
And this coincided with this meteoric rise with Casey and Callie Means, who none of us had seen.
I am curious and don't answer yet because I want to keep talking.
But I am curious about what you were doing during the pandemic.
But while we're not sure, but you came on and great, we love your message.
And I have told you this we want you to join forces with us.
But, and I don't, you know, you say it's a purity test, it's an ethical test.
I mean, you have this gigantic microphone and you have the ability, I mean, you have the ear of Trump and Kennedy.
And I'm also very curious about that.
I do.
You're the one that called.
That orchestrated the call between Kennedy and Trump.
And Kennedy says this.
This is in his speech that you orchestrated the call between Kennedy and Trump to have Kennedy drop out of the race and endorse Trump.
And that is very, you know, how did that happen?
Very curious.
So Kennedy's focus has shifted, and that's our big concern.
And it coincides with your rise.
I mean, six months ago, I looked this up.
You had about 19,000 followers on Twitter six months ago.
Now you have 230 something thousand.
It's amazing.
Good for you because you have figured out how to get that information that you want to get that out.
And that is commendable.
And that's what we all want.
We want our message to get out.
We just can't get it out.
And so maybe you could tell us your secrets how to do that.
But high level, do we not feel optimistic about the moment that we're in for social transformation?
I don't know more.
Why don't you feel optimistic?
I don't think Bobby is who I thought he was.
Why?
Just the things that have developed over the last probably four to six weeks.
I mean, he seems to be completely unaware before him and his sister are on the scene about the constitutional amendment that I wrote for Bukele.
Everything was in this law to wipe the slate clean completely.
And Bobby calls me up and says, I don't think even Ron DeSantis could pass this law.
And this is when Ron DeSantis was in the race with Trump.
before Susie Wiles.
For people who are listening, for people who are listening who aren't familiar with that law, can you explain it for us?
Yeah.
I mean, I went to move to El Salvador four years ago and literally Bitcoin gets announced as legal tender and COVID happens.
And Bukele is not, you know, a scientist.
Everybody knows that.
But he listened to the people in his health ministry who were forerunners tied to World Economic Forum, WHO.
FDA, you know, all the same people that Fauci led to.
And he went along, signed the contract with Pfizer and started to inject people.
And he started to see immediate problems in his country.
So he went on Twitter and he said, Who's this crazy neurosurgeon that keeps saying all these bad things, but no one's shutting him up?
How'd that happen?
Because one of my patients is Jack Dorsey, who owned Twitter at the time.
So there was no chance I was going to get.
Silenced.
So, what happens?
They bring me back into a place to meet the president, and I give them a talk.
That's Chatham rules 20 things that we need to do right now.
People in his administration tapped me after the talk, and they said, Look, these ideas are pretty good.
Would you be willing to meet with the president the next 24 to 48 hours?
So I went and met the president in the basement.
And I told him the story about Benjamin Rush.
And I told him exactly what Benjamin Rush, Thomas Jefferson, and James Madison talked about.
That we should add a medical freedom law in the Constitution.
But because the two founders went back and could not find 5,000 years, any civilization where this was the attack vector for a government, they decided not to put it in.
Everything was good until 1982 when Reagan put Fauci in.
And that's when everything went wrong.
1986 is when.
Well, 80 is the.
Why are you not optimistic?
Well, I'm getting there.
Okay.
Part of the reason is because you can't answer the question.
Which question, Jack?
I'm trying to have a good dialogue here.
Yeah, I don't think you are.
I don't think you're in good faith.
Jack, why are you?
Because I think many of the people that were behind the pandemic are people that he's worked for in the past.
That's the real issue for me.
And I don't know.
What do you, like who?
Who?
Just relax you.
Let me talk.
I do.
I want to have a good conversation.
So the interesting part of this is when Bobby gets the law and he tells me what he tells me about De Santis.
I get a phone call uh, four weeks later from him and he goes, can we use four pages of the law in our platform?
This is before MAHA ever comes out.
Then I get a phone call from Aaron Seary, his healthcare attorney, saying we'd like to help you format the law to get in.
I said you don't have to worry about, it's already a done deal in El Salvador.
Then, this is before Nicole is actually tapped to be the vice president.
She says, Would you go and do a podcast with Bobby?
But it's got to be in a place that it can't be canceled.
Kind of like, you know, what you just faced with Kevin.
Right.
So I called one of my other friends and patients up, Rick Rubin, famous music producer.
I said, No one's canceling him.
So Bobby sits down with me, we talk.
And at that meeting, the most key thing happens Nicole gives me talking points.
That she wants me to discuss with Bobby, and I refuse to do it.
I go straight to the heart of the matter to something that Bobby knows about, very few other people did.
And that's the day that I dropped in his lap that Kevin McKiernan found SV40 in the Pfizer jab.
And he never knew that prior to that.
He knew exactly what it meant because of the book that he had written with Fauci from Fort Detrick onward.
But what this podcast became a big story about.
Was.
Uncle Jack knew everything from Fort Dietrich backwards the polio, and I knew something else to really catch Bobby off off base is that when Jim Garrison talked to his father we covered this in the other podcast that Bobby Kennedy, at eight years old, was the one that answered the phone.
There was no way for me to know that when David Ferry was killed, right.
So what is that messaging, which is what you're getting to the heart of the matter that he doesn't understand That this is proof positive.
This is a bioweapons program that spans 75 years.
Bioweapons Program Concerns00:02:57
That alone should end everything that's going on with COVID.
Why?
SV 40 is not on any of the FDA's paper.
I don't need Jay Baticherry.
I don't need Bobby Kennedy.
I don't need Donald Trump.
It's not in any of the regulations.
And because it's not, it needs to end immediately.
Not only is it grossly illegal, it's not ethical.
And it's nefarious.
And anybody who says otherwise automatically is looked at badly.
And that's the real reason I don't trust you.
Are you a witch?
Because you cannot answer Mary's question.
Which is, why are you still for the jobs?
Jack.
You can think whatever you want.
I don't have to.
You just said what you said to the people on this podcast.
Jack.
It's a litmus test you don't want to take, Jack.
I am.
My mission on this earth is to subvert the evil, dark, broken incentives of our pharmaceutical industry and the incentives for the American people to be sick, which I think has super dark.
I feel like we're listening to another ad.
Hold on.
Jack, Jack, why?
What's with the anger?
You don't know me.
Dude, I don't know.
I got news for you.
Jack, I think I know you.
I don't think you do.
I think I do.
Okay.
Well, we can talk about that.
But, um, Do I think that COVID jabs should be pulled immediately?
I think that what happened with COVID is evil.
And I think it's wrong.
I don't think you even know what happened with COVID.
I don't know what you're saying.
Honestly, Jack, I don't.
I think that what you're saying and the threads you are pulling should have maximum airtime, should be absolutely seeing the sunlight.
And we should have absolute fearless discussion and truth.
The funny thing is, they aren't.
And guess what?
The jabs are still out there.
Guess why?
Because you haven't convinced enough people.
No, because the people that you work for and the people that are in Washington, D.C., who are still in power.
Well, Jack, we have, I think, an optimistic situation that's happened in the last month.
I don't think it's as optimistic as you think.
I am really optimistic.
I think there's a lot of.
I think it's optimistic for Froot Loops, but not for the jab.
I think there's a lot of darkness.
I think there's going to be a lot of subversion.
I think progress is probably going to be more incremental than you and I want.
But I think we are standing right now at a more optimistic time to get truth out and change some of these incentives than we ever have.
And the truth is.
Do you feel that way, Mary?
No.
Is there.
I think.
I'm very curious what happened to you during the pandemic.
LinkedIn Profile Confusion00:05:34
Did you.
He was busy writing a book.
Well, I mean, seriously, did you have.
What was the hardest thing?
What was the hardest thing?
What's with your.
Like, who do you think I worked for?
I know who you are.
Go ahead.
You're a globalist.
Okay.
That's what you want to give your, you want to give your, what do you mean specifically by that?
Well, all you have to do is look at his LinkedIn page and then do a cursory, you know, examination of his family history.
But the big one that really concerns me is his past work history.
That's one I haven't talked about on Twitter yet.
That's the one I saved right here.
Okay.
So Callie, when he left Stanford, went and did his Harvard MBA.
And that's when he started to meet some other Harvard guys.
Took some jobs and started working for companies that are tied to transhumanist technology.
But the big one, which would that be?
Bo's Allen.
That was, I interned there as a sophomore in high school.
School doesn't matter.
There's a trend here, my friend.
Okay.
The next one was before Harvard Business School.
Let's talk about Daniel J. Edelman and Holdings.
Yeah.
Let's talk about that.
That was before Harvard.
Do you know who Daniel J. Edelman was?
I do.
I do.
And I've been.
Why don't you tell me about it?
Why don't you tell the audience who Daniel was?
Jack?
I've done 200 podcasts talking about.
Hold on.
Nobody gives a shit about your podcast right now, dude.
Answer the question.
Let him explain.
Check.
Check.
Going to Stanford, working at Edelman, working at Mercury Public Affairs, going to Harvard Business School, seeing inside the Council on Foreign Relations, these are foundational to who I am and what my story is.
I agree with that.
I agree with that.
And seeing that darkness.
Right.
Those are all globalist.
Of course.
Of course.
Globalist, elitist.
Oh, Edelman.
Rockefeller founded.
Hold on, hold on.
Jack.
NATO supporting.
You haven't.
You haven't.
UN supporting.
Jack, Jack.
You haven't read our books or listened to our podcast.
Well, if you don't think that.
Me and my sister eviscerate the book.
A big portion of the book is explaining how the Rockefeller family is one of the most evil families in American history.
My dad worked for the Ford Rockefeller administration for two years, 50 years ago.
These Rockefeller connections and the Rockefeller money that we have, that's news to us.
He worked for the Ford administration and he was a mid level assistant for Vice President Nelson Rockefeller for a brief time, not David Rockefeller, who I don't even know that as.
So you say a lot.
That was 50 years ago.
David Rockefeller founded the Council of Foreign Relations, of which you remember.
That's news to me.
I've been to one Council of Foreign Relations meeting in my life.
What is the Council of Foreign Relations?
Then tell the audience, because I'm glad you said that.
Why is it linked everywhere that your name is?
Why do you always put it out there?
And first of all, what is it?
Well, hold on.
Well, just answer the question.
Hold on.
Tell me your LinkedIn profile right now.
Yeah.
The answer to that is I haven't updated my LinkedIn profile in a couple of years.
That's pretty convenient, don't you think, considering where we're going with this?
Because you still haven't answered the question about who Daniel J. Edelman is.
Tell the audience who he is.
He is the leader of the largest public relations and public affairs firm in the world that I worked for 13 years ago.
And what's the methodology that he describes and studies?
Jack, you're being very menacing.
Let's have a conversation.
I'm just warming up, brother.
Just try to let him know.
Jack.
Let's have some love here.
Not going to happen.
I don't know who told you all this darkness.
It's curious.
I have security people that find lots of things out.
Okay, well, I'm curious.
I'm looking forward to hearing them.
So, Edelman, as we write about and talked about incessantly, and I'm happy to repeat for you, created a playbook to rig institutions of trust.
They actually made a lot of their money with cigarette companies and they helped bribe.
Scientific organizations to say how cigarettes, you know, basically a question.
They actually didn't even say they were healthy.
The goal was to actually show how, cause confusion.
Okay, so throughout the 60s, 70s, 80s, they ran the playbook for the cigarette industry to basically rig institutions of trust, to pay off regulators, to have confusing information, to have doctors and advertisements.
So this is a large public relations forum that basically created that playbook.
Now, as cigarette smoking declined, They took on other interests like food companies, oil companies, other industries like that, and they used the exact same playbook.
And they actually shifted their clients over from the cigarette industry to the food industry as the cigarette industries bought the food industry in the 1990s.
And then those were clients that I had when I was there 12, 13 years ago.
And as I talked about, I actually watched and helped steer money from the American Beverage Association to civil rights groups and to academic groups.
And actually, watched as food companies paid off and tried to confuse Americans with research, such as we make a mockery of this, but such as crude oil food colorings being safe when they're basically phased out of other countries.
So, those were the projects I worked on.
Globalist Client Connections00:06:21
And then at the same time, Edelman represents the World Economic Forum and goes to these fancy confabs and says how good they are and good people they are.
How many times is David J. Edelman's son Richard?
David is dead.
Richard's the CEO, yeah.
He goes every year.
He goes every year.
Edelman is the CEO.
Can you tell the audience about his new wife?
She's the former public relations person for the World Economic Forum.
Interesting.
And do you know that she's got a link to the current president of Mexico that supports NAFTA?
That's also another Rockefeller.
Jack?
I think Callie's the foundational.
The foundational.
Attribute of my story, we all have pass, right?
Nicole was married to Sergey Bren.
Like, here's the key, hold on, hold on, Jack.
Here's the key, though.
The Rockefellers are behind the jab, and you won't take the litmus test.
Hold on.
Hold on.
You can laugh all you want, dude.
This is funny.
Okay.
So, so, so, you're is Edelman and these, you know, kind of firms that I used to work for tied to a potentially very dark globalist regime?
Correct.
Yes.
That's the foundation of my story.
I went to Harvard.
I went to Stanford.
I was.
Two people tied to ARPANET.
Go ahead, keep going.
Okay, so I went to Harvard, went to Stanford, have seen inside some of these circles, still am involved in some of these circles.
And I am trying to talk about how even well meaning people in some cases are part of terrible incentives that when it comes to the healthcare field are, no matter what they say or what they even think in their head, are part of darkness.
What made you decide?
To go to sequential jobs that actually sought out the darkness?
Well, hold on.
So I went to Stanford.
Darkness.
Hold on.
Harvard darkness.
Well, okay.
Well, no, I'm being honest here.
I think, I think, I think.
Again, I'm not laughing.
I'm being very serious here.
Why?
Hold on.
Hold on.
I'm not done talking, Callie.
Well, you're asking questions.
Yeah, but I'm not asking you a question.
You just asked three questions, but go ahead.
What's your question?
My question is this.
Did you listen to the last podcast that I did with Danny?
I've listened to a lot of your stuff.
Did you listen to the one that I did with Danny specifically?
I listened to almost all of it.
Okay.
So you know about the link to MKUltra.
Did you know that Daniel Edelman was part of MKUltra?
Did you know that?
No.
Well, he is.
Steve, why don't you pull up his Wikipedia?
And you'll notice that he was tied to psychological warfare.
See that right there in World War II?
Did you know that?
And do you know what the methodology for Edelman is, my friend?
It goes all the way back to the 1921 book written by Edward Bernays.
Yeah, yeah.
Propaganda.
Jack, I just described it.
Well, but my question is, Callie, why do I keep finding your name and your dad's name and your sister's name tied to globalist people?
Yet, when this young lady over here asks you the question, why are you failing the litmus test on jabs, but not on Froot Loops?
Can I, may I respond?
Yes.
Well, let me, let me, let me back up, Jack, because you might not know.
Let me just give my story and where my heart is, and you can poke wherever you want.
So that sounds good?
Let's do it.
Okay.
My sister and I were raised in Washington, D.C.
We have wonderful parents.
My dad worked as a trailer, grew up in a trailer, worked as an economic advisor, as I said, for Ford and Rockefeller, and was a consultant in Washington, D.C.
And my mom was the greatest woman we knew.
And for whatever reason, my sister and I were very concerned with going up the ladder and achieving good professional success in the traditional sense.
So we worked hard.
We got into Stanford.
I studied economics and political science.
My sister studied biology.
I was really into politics.
So I went into campaigns right after school.
And then inevitably, a lot of people go into public affairs, lobbying, consulting, things like that.
So I did that and worked at two companies, Mercury Public Affairs and Edelman.
And as I've talked about a lot, I definitely saw some of these really dark arts of basically just confusing the American people about areas like food, areas like pharmaceutical products.
And it was really, really dark.
I didn't put all the pictures together.
But those are the two companies I worked for.
And I don't know about the Rockefeller ties, but these were two.
I told you the Council of Foreign Affairs was started by David Rockefeller.
Okay.
So I worked at two prominent public affairs firms.
Then I went to Harvard Business School, and then I've been doing startups.
My sister went to Stanford Medical School.
She was, despite what you said, like did very well, did residency, had what I would call a spiritual awakening, probably similar to you in some ways, that the system is pretty dark and it profits from people being sick.
And exploring that there's multi dimensional poisoning of our mitochondria, including circadian rhythm, food, things like that.
But basically, she didn't learn about these things.
So she left in 2017, started impacting me.
I was doing startups, other things, and kind of came together for me during COVID.
So, where was I during COVID?
I was closing down my previous e commerce company, living with my sister, thinking a lot about how dark and bad the public policy was around COVID and the lockdowns.
My mom's experience, as we talked about in January 2021, had a big impact on me.
I started speaking out, speaking out about the COVID vaccine and other issues in 2021, really coming on, thinking about this, saying how crazy it was to be mandating them.
Hold on.
And then, yes, helped my sister write a book in 2021, 2022, started speaking more about this stuff.
As far as the Rockefeller connections, that's news to me.
Stumbling Into COVID Research00:16:21
And maybe they're so good that they're, you know, subconsciously.
And so, who's the agent for your book?
Inkwell Publishing.
What's the agent's name?
Richard Pine.
You know where Richard Pine is linked to?
He's Rockefeller Foundation.
Hold on.
Hold on.
Callie, you just got finished eloquently stating that you're not part of that.
Hold on.
Hold on.
But guess what?
Avery and Penguin have confirmed to me who your agent is.
And I've done some homework.
Was it Richard?
No, it was Inkwell Publishing.
No, no, no, no.
Richard and I. I'm going to tell you something, Callie.
Go ahead.
The more you talk, the bigger hole you're digging.
And so, well, we're going to talk about your mother here very, very shortly.
Okay.
Okay.
Because that is the big impetus for your book.
So, your mom, tell the audience where your mom lived.
Tell your mom, where did your mom live?
Hold on.
One second.
I want to ask a question first.
I want to ask you mentioned there was a spiritual awakening your sister had.
Well, yeah.
For you?
Was there a specific jump off point or spiritual awakening from you to step away from lobbying?
Yeah, I'll get to that.
So, Jack, I'll just kind of give again where the heart is.
We decided to write a book.
In the middle of COVID.
Yeah.
What's wrong with that?
That's kind of big, considering the stuff that's been going on.
Are you suggesting that we're part of some conspiracy where Rockefeller helped place the book and then a conspiracy to get a million people to buy the book?
I don't think I'm actually saying anything.
I'm I'm actually looking for answers from you because I don't think that you're being very transparent.
You'll have to explain how the conspiracy is that a lot of people bought the book.
Well, you're the first time author, right?
That's very unusual for a first time author.
And you're not the first person to give this message.
I mean, this message has been going out for 50 years.
You just managed to overcome what most people can't and get that message out to most of America, which is amazing.
And I want to know how you did it.
So we can do the same thing with the crewmates.
I mean, that's the answer.
Are you suggesting, like, Edelman and the people I'm attacking in the book help with the book.
I'm just trying to understand what the logic is.
I actually think that your agent knew exactly how to sell this book.
Why?
Because it fits with their agenda 2030.
That's exactly what I'm saying.
So maybe you're just an outwitting agent.
Maybe you're being used and you're not out there.
I might be.
I might be.
If this is a big conspiracy, Jack, then.
I don't think the word conspiracy has come up except out of your mouth.
Well, saying that.
I actually think that the interesting part here is feigning ignorance and fraud.
So, I'd like to know.
I believe you're feigning ignorance right now.
About what, Jack?
I think fraud and ignorance are two words that are next to each other.
Jack, feigning ignorance about our agent being connected to the World Economic Forum.
I would like to know where your line between ignorance and fraud lies.
Jack, feigning ignorance about our agent being connected to the World Economic Forum.
That's the ignorance.
I'd kind of like to hear you say, what is your policy to write a food book during COVID?
It's not a food book.
While you're.
Jack, it's not a food book.
It has two chapters on food.
It has more.
It's got recipes in the sandbox.
It's not a food book.
It's a book about the multidimensional threat.
So now we're going to rewrite the history since I read the book.
Jack, to be fair, Callie does talk a lot about the pharmaceutical industry and pharmaceutical drugs, not so much about vaccines.
Danny, let me give him two points because Mary said something earlier that I do want to give agreement with Callie that.
Most of the things that he's talked about on Rogan and on Tucker, I have zero problems with.
Like his stance on food, his stance that he's turned against those dark forces, I am willing to concede 100%.
Okay.
That is not what Jack is pissed off about.
Okay.
It's the transparency.
He's a public relations guy, a lobbyist.
What do they do?
It's legalized lying.
So, I want to make sure he's not still lying because when we ask him the question that we ask him about the elephant in the room, which is the messenger RNA jab, you already had Kevin on here and you know the deal.
You're not even a science guy.
Right.
Understood.
There is a huge stigma and a huge groupthink that is attached to the vaccine conversation because people know you get blasted off the internet.
You get completely scrubbed if you talk about that and you make that your main talking point.
So my question would be, is there which was not, which was not, which was not, Danny, did I get blasted off the internet?
You did not.
You are a well, well, you're a unicorn.
Jack, you are a unicorn.
But Callie, is there a strategic reason that you may be?
And it's like, I can see a reasonable reason why you would choose not to attack the vaccines and try to go a different route and then come later and like take it one piece at a time, piecemeal the problem.
So, no, that has not been a strategy.
The strategy was that we wrote what was in our heart, like in this book, and that I am on a constant journey and learning.
I, Have thought that vaccine mandates and the policy around COVID was really, really bad.
And then we talked about COVID in the book and we talked about that.
I think there is, Jack and Mary, I think there is a question of, given this moment right now, what the policy and what the strategy should be.
And I do strongly believe that we should start with transparency.
That's my opinion.
And you might think that's a kind of Weasley way to get to the issue and that it's such a crisis that we have to just bang the table right now on specific issues.
I do strongly believe that from a public policy perspective, we should start with transparency, and that's a good place to start to bring the American people along.
I know you think it's too, I get that, but okay.
I'll explain what I'm actually thinking.
But we have a huge problem with trust right now.
I see it every day in my office.
I have patients coming to me who say, Who can I go see?
I have people crying in my office on a regular basis over what happened during COVID.
I mean, that's not normal.
ENTs do not normally hand Kleenex to their patients.
Normally, we're treating your infections, and but I literally several times a week have people crying in my office.
And why is that?
I think the point though also needs to be made for the audience because you and I are the only doctors at the table.
Yeah, we never actually, you're an ENT.
You're an ENT.
She normally doesn't get involved anywhere close to the vaccine issue.
And guess what?
She is knee deep in this, right?
So, so Mary, I know we're like almost an hour into this podcast, but let's give me like a brief introduction, like your background, right?
So, I went to Stanford, I'm an ENT.
And I kind of stumbled into COVID.
I had patients coming to me because no one else would treat them.
And I'm an expert in respiratory diseases, so it makes sense.
And because I didn't shut my doors, people started coming to me.
And initially, I used, well, I tried hydroxychloroquine, but as soon as President Trump mentioned it as an option, it got shut down.
And literally, the Texas State Board of Pharmacy sent out a letter prohibiting us from prescribing it.
So then I moved on to monoclonal antibodies, and those worked great.
People turned around very quickly, and I get unlimited supply.
Well, then the government shut that down, and that was right around when Biden mandated the COVID shots.
They shut down monoclonal antibodies.
It was all an orchestrated effort.
And so I started using ivermectin, and I found that ivermectin worked.
I was a little nervous that it wouldn't because monoclonal antibodies worked so well.
But what I did find, I found it worked.
And so I treated over 6,000 COVID patients.
When you see that high volume, I mean, that's something I'll never again experience in my career.
I mean, usually I see a wide variety of issues as an ENT.
Never had such a large volume of the same disease in such a short period of time.
And you become an expert in it.
And, you know, I started speaking out, and of course, I got ridiculed, smeared, canceled.
I'm still fighting for my medical license.
So I put everything on the line to tell the truth.
And I think that brings us to another point is that, you know, all these people, all these doctors who have really sucked their nuts out have suffered because of, you know, just telling the truth.
I mean, just upholding the Hippocratic Oath are being completely.
ignored, especially right now.
Let's flip the switch though, Mary, because I want you to talk about this.
You and Casey have the exact same training.
Right.
She dropped out of her residency.
And I reached out to her several times and I didn't hear anything about it.
She dropped out of her residency.
So she had no way to actually have her doors open to actually see the things that you saw.
Right.
And maybe, you know, I understand if you are not in my position, it is not as imperative to you as somebody who's seen the same thing over and over and over again, seeing people crying in your office over and over again.
Do you think that may have something to do with why?
She wrote a book about food.
Jack, it's not about food.
Jack, well, I think her priorities, Jack, hold on.
It's not about, I'm actually talking about her, not you.
I don't want to assume nefarious motives on her part.
Are you?
But I do find it, it's interesting.
It's just interesting.
And what's interesting?
That, I mean, we've gone over this.
First time author.
First time author.
That doesn't finish her residency.
That doesn't have a medical license.
She never finished her residency.
I know, but that's.
Part of the book.
I know, but that's what does that matter if it's part of the book?
Well, what's your point?
What because she can't see patients?
Have you ever read her levels corporate agreement?
You're talking to people about that that are mistaken.
Um, actually, I read it.
Yeah, yeah.
It they don't, guess what?
They don't, guess what?
Yeah, yeah.
She can't see patients.
Callie, do you know that she doesn't even have a medical license in the United States?
Why are you like, do you know that?
Yes, yes, she left the medical system, Jack.
So that's interesting.
So hold on.
So, do you know a guy named Tim Noakes?
No.
Tim Noakes is a doctor that faced a multi million dollar lawsuit because patients thought he was practicing outside of his specialty on the internet.
Cost him almost two million dollars.
So, I've heard your sister multiple times in multiple places with you.
And many of the things that she's saying with no medical malpractice, no medical license, didn't finish her ENT residency.
I got to be honest with you.
Maybe that's the reason why she doesn't have the same experience that Mary has.
Oh, yeah.
So, okay.
I want to respond, but should I?
Well, I'm just, you know, like I said, I don't want to assume nefarious motives because she's not speaking out about COVID, but what the.
Because there's no trust in the world now.
Yeah, exactly.
Jack, that's why I'm here, honestly.
And I think that's valid.
Yeah.
Honestly.
Well, yeah.
When you've gone through what I've gone through, you don't trust.
I think you've got a.
I think, but I am here and we talked about this.
I didn't see all your conspiratorial stuff.
I think this idea that you don't have trust is super valid, not just of us, of just general.
I think this is a very high stakes time.
And there's a lot of people listening that have, it's not about me or kids.
It's like, I think this is true.
Actually, it is about you too.
Hold on.
Hold on.
But there's also a lot of just distrust in general, I think, around the system.
Like, I think it's because you're bringing the distrust to this magical moment.
But that I don't want to get into it.
I want to finish what we uh, the whole thing.
I never got to finish the whole trust thing, right?
Because that's that's the biggest problem I see.
I have patients coming to me, I have a list, a printed list of doctors that I give them.
Okay, these are the people that are like minded, these are the people that you know will never make you wear a mask in the office, will never ask you your vaccination status, have you know been very like minded.
And if the government does not take this rare opportunity.
To come down and hold people accountable, we will never restore the trust, at least in our lifetime.
And that people need to have everything taken down, and we need immediate and swift action.
Or the trust, I mean, we'll never restore the trust.
I mean, I'm telling you, okay, look how many, you know, how many people are still getting these COVID shots?
I mean, it's probably less than 10%.
And that's a reflection of their trust in our government because our government is telling them that they need to get these COVID shots.
I think it's like 3% for like young kids.
It's like when it's the recommendation.
Well, we don't know.
Yeah, it's good.
Well, I mean, nobody should be getting these shots.
Nobody.
And, um, Yeah.
So if we don't do something, we're never going to restore the trust.
And this is the time to do it.
And soft peddling this is just not going to work.
I mean, people do not trust our health system.
And I think that's why this conversation is so important.
And I also think that that's why it's admirable that Callie suggested we actually do this and he come here and talk to you guys.
If he was some sort of nefarious Trojan horse, I don't think he would have done that.
Okay.
But I want to emphasize that he is.
Has a big role.
You have a big microphone right now.
You are all over the news.
You're bipartisan news.
You're all over the news right now.
You have the ear of Trump and Kennedy.
And we need to convince you that no child should be given the option of getting this modified synthetic mRNA shot that has dire consequences if it goes wrong.
And it doesn't go wrong in everybody.
We know that.
But there's different, they're varying degrees, varying numbers 4%, 15%, 1 in 500, 1 in 800.
Serious adverse reaction.
You should see the patients in my office that come to see me with these injuries.
It is life changing, and there's nothing we can do for these people.
It's very hard.
They don't get better.
What kind of people are they?
What age group?
I have young people, I have older people, but a lot of it's neurological, which is very difficult to fix.
I don't see the myocarditis, the stroke, that sort of thing, because I'm outpatient, but I see these people with a really chronic.
Debilitating health problems.
I looked at my new patient appointments and the two years following the rollout of the COVID shots, 7% of my new patients were coming to see me for injuries directly related to these COVID shots.
They typically get the million dollar workup.
They see a bunch of their doctors.
They're never reported to VARS.
None of the patients that came to see me were reported to VARS, even though the onset of their symptoms was in close proximity.
And that's the other thing.
VARS is 1%.
It's only a reflection of 1%.
And now I've lost my train of fat.
VARS.
Uh, well, but oh, the injuries, yeah.
So, neurological, um, I see uh, POTS, which is where the blood pressure just fluctuates up and down erratically with no triggers, and that's very difficult to treat.
POTS is very orthostatic hypertension, yeah, it's caused by mitochondrial damage to cytochrome one in the mitochondria.
Um, yeah, so in these people, there's just not a lot we can do for them, right?
And there's they, they, you know, I would say a lot of people slowly get better.
Pancreatic Cancer Diagnosis00:14:58
But, you know, I have one patient with severe vertigo, just won't go away.
Young guy, 10 years younger than me, otherwise healthy, just now completely debilitated, can barely walk.
I have another patient with severe tremors.
I mean, he's a CEO of a company, maybe five years older than me, otherwise was previously healthy, now just can't stop shaking all the time, all the time.
I have another patient with severe unexplained pain in her flank that, you know, she's had all these imaging studies, nothing shows up.
She's previously healthy and just now she's just debilitated by this.
unexplained pain.
So let me tell you what I did.
I was retired.
I was a Bitcoin maxi.
And I got asked to do, I guess you would call it a movie with McCullough and Malone.
And it was so controversial that it had to be behind a paywall.
And my part of the movie was kind of interesting.
I reviewed the patents on the jabs before they came out.
And I was the first one to notice that there was two legal definitions.
And that's all I talked about as a doctor.
You know what I did then, Mary?
I went back to work.
Went back to the ICU.
Started going back two times every month.
And I started seeing on average 13 people with clots, people dying.
A week?
Yeah.
And then something very interesting happened that I really want to get into.
Started to see people from youngest was 17, oldest was 94 that would present with no history of cancer.
And then they had stage four cancer.
Callie, when your mom got cancer.
Can you ask your question?
You need to be a little bit kinder when you talk about my.
No, I'll be kind.
You know, your mom did die during COVID, right?
Didn't she?
Yeah, she didn't get the vaccine.
Okay, let me ask you a question.
Have you ever looked at her death certificate?
Okay, so.
Have you ever looked at her death certificate?
Jack, Jack, Jack.
I'm just asking you a question.
Jack.
Have you ever looked at the death certificate?
Jack.
It's a yes or no question.
Jack, if you're going to talk about personal stuff, you want to call your sister up and ask her if she looked at it?
Hold on, hold on.
Bring a little more heart to this, Jack.
Oh, this is where the heart of the matter is, my friend.
Jack, Jack, Jack, can we take a breath and can you just.
No, like, I need an answer.
Why are you being so angry about my mom's death?
Because I think you're full of shit.
You think?
I just told you.
There's no trust.
You think I'm full of shit about my mom's death?
Yeah, I think it was a ruse.
I don't think your mom's story, why you wrote that book, is actually what you're telling everybody.
And I want everybody to hear it straight from your mouth that you're not lying to us.
Because I'm going to tell you something when you take a look at her death certificate, you might.
I want to make sure that you're really understanding where I'm going.
Your mom lived in California.
When was the first person that got a jab?
You know?
December 10th.
Okay.
Your mom died in January.
Right.
Casey is on record in podcasts saying that your mother got diagnosed and died in 13 days from a stage four cancer.
You have been on Tucker Carlson.
You have been on Joe Rogan.
Right.
And you've told the world because your mother had a metabolic disease that she died.
Is that factually correct?
That she was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer and died 13 days later.
And it was stage four.
Yes.
She was previously perfectly fine, correct?
Correct.
Correct.
Jack.
You want me to pull the picture up from 2014 that shows you she was pretty good?
Jack.
It's a yes or no question, brother.
Jack.
Answer the question.
Jack, stop.
No, I'm not going to.
Jack.
Answer the question.
I'm answering the question.
All right, he's going to answer now.
She was feeling a little sluggish in the months before, but the pancreatic cancer diagnosis was a huge surprise.
Okay, so let me ask you a question.
Where does she live?
Half of May, California.
All right, so what do you know about COVID and California in December of 2020 and January of 21?
Anything a little bit unusual that you recall?
Because remember, you, this was your seminal event that you and your sister changed your life to write the book.
Yeah.
Right?
Yes.
That 13 days.
Because I've heard your sister and you say that.
So I'm taking you, I believe you.
So, I want to talk about that issue.
Well, I seem to be hearing you were making that up.
I didn't say that yet.
You just did.
No, I didn't.
You did?
I didn't.
But I'd like to ask you a question.
I'd like to ask you a question.
Let me answer the question.
She was, so, yes, she was diagnosed, and then there were 13 days that were very important to me and Casey.
All right.
What's your question?
My question is have you looked at her death certificate?
I have not seen her death certificate.
She died of pancreatic cancer.
Okay.
Has your sister looked at the death certificate?
What are you getting at?
I have not seen the death certificate.
I think you need to look at it.
You know that all death certificates in California are public record, right?
Sure.
You might want to take a look at that before you do your next podcast.
How is that, Jack?
Because maybe your mother didn't die of a metabolic condition.
Pancreatic cancer?
No.
What did you do?
Why do you assume that pancreatic cancer is only a metabolic condition?
I think cancer is highly tied to metabolic health.
Yeah.
Yes.
Did you have Kevin McKiernan in here a couple weeks ago?
What did he tell you about SV40 and all that?
Yeah.
Well, is that a metabolic condition?
Well, it impacts the cells.
I mean, I think over prescription.
I remember, you're not a doctor.
I know.
I think over prescription pharmaceuticals are causing a lot of issues to our metabolic health.
But you just told us that your mom didn't take the jab.
She didn't.
So she couldn't have been over prescribed, could she?
She didn't get the COVID jab.
No.
But when was she born?
40 something, 46, 46, yeah.
Yeah.
She got the folio jab.
Did you know that?
So you're saying it could have something to do with a jab that she got decades ago?
And maybe, and maybe, and maybe, let me ask you a question because you're a great lobbyist.
Okay.
Do you know that SV40 is associated with rapid presentation of stage four pancreatic cancer?
Did you know that?
Yes or no?
Jack?
Yes or no?
Remember, ignorance or fraud, bro.
I'm not going to do this.
Where are we at?
This is.
All right, we have to.
Let's try to, Jack, let's just, let's try to be a little, let's try to be a little bit more reasonable, just talking to each other.
And I think this is pretty reasonable.
No.
Jack, what's your question?
Did I know?
Hold on, hold on.
So I am not aware of her getting any vaccines in a recent period to the cancer.
I assume she was, you know, as we talk about, she was a.
Product of the modern medical system, and I think got probably all the vaccines that she was supposed to get.
I think that's reasonable over her life.
Nobody would argue with you about that at all.
Hold on.
So, and then my story, we can, I mean, I find this fully good faith.
I mean, we could talk about what you think happened, but my story that was implanted on my mom is she was a product of modern medical advice.
You know, she ate ultra processed food and low fat diet.
She probably had some tough things going on with her light and circadian rhythm and sleep dysregulation.
You know, she was working to be active, but was somewhat sedentary.
You know, probably was over relying on pharmaceuticals.
I don't know her whole vaccine history.
She didn't get the COVID jab, that wasn't available.
And, you know, she was on other medications, as we talked about.
Just so you're clear, it was available in California when your mom was there.
271,000 people in California got the jab.
But do you know the number?
Before January?
Yeah.
Do you know the number one place where the jab was?
Are you suggesting my mom got the COVID jab?
Cali.
Is that what you're saying?
Did I say that?
Can I ask the question before you try to answer for me?
You make a lot of suggestions.
What are you saying?
I'm saying to you, you're suggesting.
Do you know the reason why California got the jab early?
No.
Because there were many people from China that was over there.
Okay.
So the jab was given specifically at two major places.
Do you know where those places were?
Probably Stanford.
Oh, okay.
And where else?
In Los Angeles.
Good.
Right?
Okay.
Can I?
Okay.
Good.
So my story is that she had a multifactorial issue that are actually hard to pin down.
Modern society that are attacking her overall mitochondria, her metabolic health.
I think that pancreatic cancer and many forms of cancer are highly tied to our cellular dysregulation and not tied to the absence of some cancer therapy, but a multifactorial complex group of factors.
Let me ask you a question Do you think it's normal?
I'm going to let you keep going on, but you have to remember something.
You're not a doctor, and I am.
Jack, I'm saying what I'm saying is do you think it's normal for a 71 year old woman?
Yeah.
To show up with a stage four pancreatic cancer.
So we know how often.
Hold on, hold on.
Very rarely.
I do know.
Hold on, hold on.
I think it's becoming more common.
So I think pancreatic cancer generally is very deadly because you tell me if this doesn't jive with what your experience is, is that the stage four sneaks up on you very quickly and it does lay dormant for a long time and then it's known as soon as it appears and then you're out pretty quickly.
So I do think that actual, it was pretty quick.
But I think that pancreatic cancer is particularly tough with that because you basically start learning about it when it's very late, often stage four.
So I think that actually is pretty common.
And my understanding, Jack, is that pancreatic cancer rates, you know, 50 years ago was not really something you ever saw someone with pancreatic cancer.
And they are, like many forms of cancer, increasing a lot.
So while it's rare, I don't know.
I'm meeting a lot of people whose parents have died very quickly from pancreatic cancer.
I think it is increasing in rate.
Actually, the highest place in the United States, you know where it is?
California.
There you go.
So let's directly related to.
Let's talk about that.
Okay.
So you know that your sister used to have a previous history with 23andMe.
So, no, I don't.
Because let me talk about that.
So, you don't know that?
No, no, no.
Hold on.
Let me talk about that.
Casey interned for 23andMe as a freshman or sophomore in college 16 years ago.
She didn't interact with.
She's called her a wonderful friend.
Hold on.
I can give you the facts.
You can dispute them or whatever you want.
In the past 16 years, she's seen Ann Wojciki or whatever her name is one time where they were on a panel together.
The top health conference where Casey eviscerated the pharmaceutical industry to gas from the crowd, very adversarial.
And one of them posted a picture referring to old friends as an old intern.
She's seen Ann one time in 16 years, has never met Sergey.
And those are the facts.
So you can call that a lie.
When she posted on Instagram, she said, wonderful friend.
There was a reference to them being an intern.
Like, she does not know.
She has seen Anne exactly once, has interacted with her exactly once in 16 years when that photo was taken.
Callie, do you know who's Anne's sister?
The Susan.
Susan, yeah.
I don't know her.
Do you know anything about her?
I know she died of cancer, right?
No.
She was the CEO of YouTube.
Yeah.
You know, the one that pulled Kevin off for SV40.
I don't know anything more than that.
Do you know that she had an adenocarcinoma?
No.
I have no idea who, like, especially in those days.
Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on.
Let me go.
So, what do you know about adenocarcinoma?
Very little.
It's associated with cigarette smoking.
My mom smoked.
Would you be surprised?
Back in the day.
Would you be surprised to know that Susan Wojcicki didn't smoke?
Well, my mom did smoke.
She stopped.
I'm asking about Jermona.
I'm asking about Susan Wojcicki.
Stop being so menacing, man.
I'm asking about Susan Wojcicki.
You have hate in your heart about this for some reason.
I don't know.
We'll have to look into your motivations.
You should have before you came.
I know them.
I actually, out of respect for other people, I don't want to get into them.
But yeah.
Okay, so what's the deal with Susan?
Susan died of aggressive cancer as well.
I heard that.
Right?
You know that her son also died four months before her.
I don't know that.
But he did, he killed himself.
Same cocktail of drugs that most of the school shooters have.
What was that cocktail?
Steve can look it up.
It's an SF gate.
I'm not going to go through all the drugs, it's really not important for this story.
Okay.
So the interesting thing is Susan and your mom both lived in California.
Yeah.
Do you know that I couldn't find Susan's death certificate anywhere?
Okay.
But I could find your mom's.
Okay.
What do you think?
I would assume that's because Susan is a prominent person and they might have covered it up or something.
It's the law, Callie.
Remember, you did intern at the White House and you were a lobbyist and you know that the law applies to everybody except Hunter Biden.
That's right.
But, but, but, but, okay.
So let me ask you a question.
Yes.
This is big tech.
These guys are linked to the people that used to work for and magically the death certificate's not there.
So.
You know, levels was paid for in a deck from A16Z.
So, so, so, so, hold on, hold on.
So, Andreessen Horowitz is the largest venture capital firm in the country.
Correct.
And after my sister left the medical system, she had a thesis that a lot of our conditions that are treated in silos, you guys would probably agree with this, right?
We treat things in silos.
We have, you know, endocrinologists for diabetes and, ENTs for head and neck, you know, sinusitis.
It's, you know, they're all, these things are interconnected.
So, one small way to attack that, not everything, but one small way, she thought, is to give people continuous glucose monitors.
Continuous Glucose Monitoring00:02:22
It's changed my life.
It's like, it's a closed loop of what I'm eating.
It's, you know, a couple hundred thousand people have gotten them.
They don't share or sell data in any way, I think, as you suggested.
And they raise money from Andreessen Horowitz, which I have not raised money from.
This is crazy.
I haven't found anything.
I'm going to say this is crazy.
I'd happily do it.
I mean, you know, this conspiracy is new to me because they turned us down.
But so let's talk about where you think I'm going because I'm not going there.
You can go up.
So your sister likes to use continuous blood glucose monitors.
In her book, the one that you co wrote with her, so I'm assuming that you edited it with her.
What was the number one.
Technology used for people with poor sleep.
Do you recall that we recommended?
Yeah.
A sleep monitor.
Fitbit, wasn't it?
We didn't try not to recommend too many brand names, but we.
What does a Fitbit do?
It measures your.
It measures various metrics around your sleep and heart rate, HRV, that kind of stuff.
Hold on a minute.
Yeah.
Does it use non native EMF?
So let me answer that.
My understanding is Fitbit.
Has lower EMF and scores lower on that.
But does it use it?
Honestly, I'd love to learn.
I mean, I think every single thing that uses EMF raises blood glucose and insulin.
I think that's maybe true.
So, guess what?
What?
You wrote the book in the middle of it, and you told everybody it's the best way to do it.
I think trackers and understanding more about it.
When did you write the book, though?
When did you write the book?
Hold on.
Hold on.
The book came out in what?
22 and 23?
Let's have a conversation.
The book came out in 22, 23?
I wrote the book in 20.
Yeah.
When did you start writing it?
2021, 22, 22.
Beginning of COVID.
Right after your mom got sick.
Yeah, you started thinking about it.
Yeah.
Okay.
Do you know the paper for Nora Volkal that when it came out, that anything that is associated with non native EMF?
Listen, I think EMF is a huge problem.
But do you know when the paper came out?
No.
Do you think your sister does?
I don't know.
This is in 2011.
Eviscerating Pharmaceutical Industry00:15:59
Okay.
So you're saying people shouldn't wear Fitbits?
No.
What I'm saying is when you tell people that these are things related to a metabolic disease and then you're using non native EMF to track it, because guess what?
Chronic glucose monitors also do this?
What is the kind of point here?
Because I'm certainly open to that information and we could correct the book.
I do think bio wearables are useful in understanding more data about your body.
Yeah, I don't think they are at all.
Okay, okay.
I think honestly that's a pretty small part of our whole message, but sure, I think that in the next 10 years, more personalized understanding of what's happening in our body can supplant the doctor kind of construct that's totally failed.
I think we have these discussions on what's more important the pharmaceuticals, the light, the food.
I think they're all, I think it's kind of dumb to stack rank them, honestly.
I think everyone should have an understanding of their biomarkers.
Would we agree that our glucose, our fasting glucose, our HDL, our triglycerides, our blood pressure?
Okay.
I wouldn't.
You're talking to the wrong guy about that.
No.
How would you measure success from an internal, personalized perspective?
How would you measure success?
Heteroplasmy.
That's the only way.
Good.
And the reason why I bring this up to you, and this is where me not being adversary with you, I find it very interesting that both you and your sister were caught with your pants down in 13 days about your mom, but never realized that they're made.
Meaning that you were not ready for what happened.
You probably died.
Right.
But immediately you went to blame the food issues.
No, we didn't blame the food issues.
Well, I mean.
Jack, Jack, Jack, Jack.
We are on the scene, and this is your question.
Why are we here?
The Tucker Carlson podcast is the most shared podcast this year.
Okay.
People listened to the podcast and shared it.
Okay.
That is why we're here.
And my advice, my PR advice, is I think that's because Casey's talking from the heart and I connected with people.
Okay.
That is the truth.
All this conspiracy stuff, I got to know Bobby.
I met him a couple of times.
I picked up the phone from the heart.
I've talked to Trump folks a couple of times and I, from the heart, feeling very emotional after the Butler shooting, I said, there's a generational opportunity for unity.
Maybe you should.
Call Trump and I can try to help them make that happen.
These are all like just personal from the heart things.
So you guys can either believe that or not.
I think that Casey's putting out a lot of light and I'm certainly trying to.
Do you see that?
And that connected with people.
And the book, the book is not about Froot Loops, Jack.
It's not.
Do you see my point though that, you know, we've been fighting a war for four years?
Absolutely.
And all of a sudden, no one's talking about it anymore and we're all talking about seed oils?
It's just very.
Guys, guys, I think the problem is.
Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on.
It's called the Hegelian dialect.
Dude, dude, dude.
And the place they used to work specializes in it.
You know what also is a tactic?
To throw around bullshit to cause doubt on people and like say that people are.
But that's why we're here, Callie, for you to call bullshit on it.
I am not here for you.
I'm here because there's a lot of people listening.
It's not about me that are skeptical of this.
I think we have a generational opportunity.
I have a lot of respect for you.
I think you are seeing a lot of pain.
Jack, I think your thoughts on the science are often very brilliant.
And, you know, I don't really have any debate for them other than the stack ranking.
I mean, you know, listening to hours of your stuff, I just think it's like, You know, completely dismissing food.
I mean, maybe it's that.
It is.
Well, there's no question about it.
I'll agree with you 100%.
That dismissing food is a bad thing.
Yeah, it's about five or six on the list.
Well, that might be true.
I think when we start pinning down and trying to.
Notice how I said the stuff that you and your sister are talking about.
I'm actually okay with that.
I have zero issues with that.
Can I ask you, what's the result of what we're trying to do then if we're connected with Rockefeller and trying to subvert this agenda and bring the.
What are we like?
How have we?
Why would I not focusing on the right things?
Light technology, the jabs.
But why do you think he's trying to take the eye off the ball?
Yes.
Well, an mRNA is this is not one and done with the evidence.
Why would I then work just to bring these issues so much into the why would I just trust on the broken leg?
In other words, you're going to limit what Bobby can do in government.
Nobody's limiting what Bobby can do.
There's you and a lot of people that are around these globalist entities that are being placed in the cabinet right now.
I'm not going to do that.
There's a lot of.
Of we know that if the covet shots get pulled off the market, a whole industry of biotech is going to go down.
It's a big deal, right?
So, oh, yeah, the people with invested interest in mRNA are going to use every tactic they can to keep it alive, yes.
And so, that's why we're suspicious.
We're suspicious, and maybe you're an unwitting uh agent, maybe maybe they're using you, you have no idea, maybe, but uh, we we just there's a technique called misdirection, it's a war technique, right?
And it just kind of all falls into place, but gaming this out.
So, we write a book eviscerating the pharmaceutical industry.
We go on podcasts eviscerating the pharmaceutical industry.
I think you're giving me way too much credit, but I do whatever I help to put these ideas to how.
Did the pharmaceutical industry distribute the job?
No.
Department of Defense did.
So, who is the pharmaceutical industry in this story?
They were just the drug dealers.
But, Jack, I'm just saying, I'm just trying to game out your argument.
My argument is I want you to actually make an accurate diagnosis.
In fact, I'm not holding your feet to the fire really as bad as I hold your sister's feet to the fire.
Well, my sister, as you might know, is, you know, I think said stuff from the heart that's impacted people and is not, you know, as much in the day to day of this political thing.
I'm very passionate, Jack, about figuring out how to create and think about policies that accomplish goals that I'm pretty sure that we're all aligned with in the most fast and radical way.
Again, I strongly believe that that is when it comes to pharmaceutical products, having an emphasis in the next six months on a radical transparency agenda.
I do think that is.
And see, I disagree with you.
Okay, then there's no doubt about that.
But I've made that case.
I've already made the case.
But I've actually done something that you haven't done.
Well, Jack, I'm working too to do stuff.
We both are.
We're not working on the same goals.
My goal is to eradicate.
What?
Eradicate what?
All the vaccines.
My goal is to eradicate chronic disease.
Why do you think nobody has been appointed that has been outspoken about taking the COVID shots off the market?
So, nobody has gotten a position.
Do you think it's the best idea just to ban them?
Or do you think it's the best idea?
The mRNA platform needs to be banned.
The other vaccines, I'm okay with the transparency and discussing.
If they want to save face, they could just say, hey, we're going to pull it off the market while we do further studies.
That would be a very easy way to save face and not.
Mary, do you want to chat?
I mean, I'm not trying to be like, you were giving me way too much credit, but like, let's figure out.
The best strategy to get your research out there and get a path to what you think could happen.
I mean, there are like, like, like, like, I feel like my story is that actually talking about any type of strategy you feel is not, this is my story.
I'm not saying that you think is like not, is almost like suspicious.
If you're talking about any type of like, as a definitive statement, no, I do not think the platform of everyone in government right now to immediately pull everything, I do not think that's the appropriate.
Political feasibility.
I don't.
Politics is about health.
It's about politics.
Well, no, no, no, no.
Getting something done in this generational moment is about politics.
I have to say, Mary, it is.
Yeah, I disagree with that too.
I just.
That's why I wrote a constitutional amendment.
Jack, we're on.
I think the fact that, I mean, honestly, my main issue is like we're kind of thinking about maybe even different.
Like, I think it's perfectly appropriate to ask, and this is frankly not where Casey's thinking.
Casey's thinking about more of a spiritual level.
Like, I'm thinking more about what can be done in the next year.
And, you know, that's different than like what the moral imperative is.
I'm telling, I feel a ton.
I know you see the kids and people every day, and that's harrowing.
Like, I feel like I have a pretty deep, you know, concern for what's happening to America's children and like what's happening to America.
I think we're being slaughtered right now.
And like, I think what I am, where my brain goes is like how to translate that into policy.
Now, there could be big disagreements with that, and there should be massive like outside agitation and challenging on everything.
But like, The immediate going to like that, we're working with Rockefeller and like, you know.
The point that I tried to make to you earlier, and I don't think you've done a good job, but the cool thing is the audience will decide this.
Where are you at?
Ignorance?
Well, you think I'm ignorant.
Well, I do.
And I think your sister's more ignorant than you are.
We might be unwittingly.
But my concern coming in here is that there's a line between ignorance and fraud.
And what I'm trying to do.
What are we frauding?
I think you could be a front.
For the globalists and the big tech guys.
Then why would our central message be eviscerating the pharmaceutical industry?
Because you want to get into the administration so that you can hamper things.
That's what Fabians do.
The Fabians are the ones behind the Council of Foreign Affairs.
Why wouldn't I have just tried to not have this message get on the center?
I just told you the reason why.
Because people like me are blocking you from doing it.
Yeah.
Well, that's the truth.
That is absolutely the truth.
What do you mean by that?
Just what I said.
I've told the right people that they need to be concerned about you two until you come on a podcast.
And to your credit, I'll be the first one to give you this credit.
Danny told me that you backed out until 25 and then you said, no, with Jack saying, let's do this now.
Until what?
Next year.
Let's talk about this now because you know what?
No, he's talking about when we originally had a podcast scheduled and then you had to reschedule it till 2025.
And now you're back in.
You said, let's talk.
That's great.
I'm glad that we're here talking about it because to be honest with you, I'm giving you the olive branch.
I want you to actually set the record straight because the audience, I can tell you right now, this is going to be a very simple litmus test.
Is it ignorant or is it fraud?
Which one are people going to go on?
You know, there's going to be people that make comments after this, just the way we look at each other, the way we talk to each other, the issues that have been presented.
And I do really want to hear.
Go ahead.
What do you want to hear?
From you because there's things about your family.
What concerns you about my family?
The books your dad's written.
These are really concerning.
Hold on.
We know that what his history is.
Let's go through this quick.
Let's go through this.
Well, no.
Well, this is what I'm trying to say.
You will not let me finish any points here.
The bottom line is your family is painted with a globalist brush.
There's not even a question.
No, no, no.
By their actions.
No, no, no.
By Jack.
The book your father wrote is directly tied to Richard.
Okay.
Who you used to work for.
His wife is a DEI leader in the World Economic Forum.
Okay.
Okay.
Can I?
So, so I think we're probably spending too much time on me, but can take it wherever you want.
Jack.
We just need you to answer the question, Jack.
Jack.
That's all we need to do.
And you're not doing a good job of it.
Thank you for that analysis.
What's the question?
Callie, I think.
Your non answer is an answer.
Hold on.
Whoa, whoa, whoa.
Specifically, what was it?
Jack, Jack, what is the question?
The question is Is it ignorance or is it fraud?
Okay.
Why would you laugh at that?
Because I think.
It's a very uncomfortable laugh, my friend.
Okay.
Because I think.
I haven't laughed too much during this podcast.
I've been looking directly at you, looking to see your answer.
And it really bothers me that this is difficult for you.
I bet you if I ask you the question, if we could ban high fructose corn syrup, you'd have no problem saying.
Absolutely not.
Absolutely not.
I don't think we should ban high fructose corn syrup.
It's the exact same answer I'd give on the COVID vaccines.
I think we need mass transparency.
I would agree with you in the sense that I think.
And Jack, hold on.
Jack, no, I would not say we should ban high fructose corn syrup.
I don't think bans are politically a good thing to do.
I think transparency is.
So I would absolutely not say to ban it.
Getting corruption out of the social media platforms like YouTube and Twitter.
And all of these social media platforms that are basically monopolies that control all information in the world and making it so they cannot be infiltrated by government agencies or big pharma.
How about the Rockefeller Foundation or the people that are behind all these PR firms?
Because that's who's doing all of this stuff.
I'm talking about the conversations specifically, like conversations like we have with Kevin McCain, where they get taken.
So when you have somebody who's questioning these things, there is a policy called the Medical Misinformation Policy on YouTube, which I'll make it very clear up front when we.
Before we release this podcast, I'll put a little stinger up there that says that we're clearly not doing that here, that none of this is medical information.
But there are policies that are written in there that are very loose that can take things with anybody who questions any of these stuff, completely wipe it off the internet.
That's when you Google her name.
When you type her name into YouTube, there's nothing.
I know.
Except for literally one minute clips from like news stations talking about how she got beat by the Methodist hospital.
Okay.
We've got a lot going on here.
Let me try to, and then Jack.
No, I'm laughing because the idea of my dad's book, Felix the Flamingo, which is a book that sold 50 copies that he wrote for a dear friend of the family's who contemplated suicide after being in the closet as a gay man for a long time.
And he wrote a book about acceptance.
And it's a magical flamingo who is different.
It's a book about a gay flamingo.
I read it.
Yeah, it's a book about a flamingo that's different.
It has nothing to do with trans.
It has a lot to do, though, with the Globus.
With what?
With the Globus that are in control.
The who?
The Globalists?
The Globalists.
Correct.
The Rockefellers.
Jack, he hired an illustrator on Upwork and worked for a month as a side project on a book as a tribute to a good friend who was closeted and gay.
Right.
Which fits the ideology of.
The Council of Foreign Relations, which your dad was also a member.
He was not a member.
He is never a member in any way, shape, or form of the Council of Foreign Relations.
I don't know if that's so true, my friend.
He actually, when a family friend put me on it, is just on that list a couple years ago, I think before COVID.
Mind Control and Agents00:14:06
How did that happen, by the way?
How did they put you on the list?
Chelsea Gabbard's on the count.
This is a massive, like, prestigious thing.
I think it's very.
Is it really prestigious?
No, I think it's actually terrible.
Hold on, I want to understand the military.
I actually, no, Jack, like, This is me.
This is what I bring to this.
I racked up these plaudits.
That was my issue.
For you to climb the ladder?
Yeah.
So that's what you're saying?
Absolutely.
So because you used that, you thought that you could get points in DC.
So, can I ask you a question?
I accept that 100%.
Totally.
So, let me ask you a question.
This gets to really the heart of the matter.
Tell me about a place where you want to climb the ladder with that kind of stuff being an accolade.
Would you and I put that as an accolade to climb up the ladder?
I don't consider CFR an accolade.
I think you're digging into any.
You've dug in and seemed like higher investigators, and you've found Felix the Flamingo, the fact that I've been to one CFR meeting, and then trying to slam me on the fact that I used to work for lobbying and public affairs firms, which is central to my message.
Those are the three things you found after I know, and I know something about you, Jack, spending a lot of energy, not with the goal of getting to truth, but with the goal of.
Criticizing us.
So, no, actually, I'm actually trying to get to the truth.
But find out where we are.
Just to be clear, the three things you have is that my dad wrote a children's book that I went to one council on foreign relations meeting, which is central to my story about trying to rack up these issues.
And you worked for an MKUltra sponsored.
Yeah, but he didn't know that.
Did you not know that?
How could I not know that as a 23 year old?
What are you talking about?
Yeah.
I mean, you never looked up the name of the guy on.
That you work for?
It's possible he didn't know the guy with the dream.
I don't know.
I actually don't know what.
I've listened to your stuff on this.
Jack, like.
So you don't know who Daniel Edelman is?
Of course.
In the beginning of this podcast, you just mentioned that you did.
Of course I know who he is.
And you knew his son.
So you don't see that that ideology is the same ideology.
No, I don't see that's bad.
Daniel Edelman died, Richard Edelman's son.
2013.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then the son took over.
Yeah.
He was the father.
The ideology of both of these people are very similar to what's in your dad's book.
In fact, Richard's new wife is the DEI expert for the WEF.
So, Jack, just to tease out what you're saying, if you could listen to me in good faith, my story is attacking this DC tactics of kind of what you're describing with NKUltra.
Like, that's what we did with food and pharmaceuticals and cigarettes.
Like, calling those out, that's why I came on the scene two years ago.
I started talking about how we used to pay the NAACP to say that Coke was basically fine and racist to ban it on food stamps.
It's like those tactics are very dark.
But you know, those weren't the tactics of MKUltra, right?
You know what the tactics were, right?
You said you listened to the podcast.
Yeah, yeah.
Pull the war, mind control.
Yeah, mind control.
Light, non native EMF, stuff that's in your mind.
I don't know.
Stuff that's in your mind.
So if Richard was part of a mind control, hold on.
If Richard was part of a mind control, that's news to me.
And like maybe I didn't know about that.
But so let me just.
So I work for these companies.
And what are the other ones?
The CFR.
I mean, that's.
It's not so much the CFR.
My real concern, yeah, but my real concern, and I think you've really tried to dance around this fact.
What's the direct question?
I'm happy to address the agent for your book.
It's a left person.
Okay.
It's a left person.
So it seems to be.
It's a left WEF.
WEF.
Davos person.
Okay.
So guess what?
These are the people you're running away from, but that's the agent selling your book?
No, no.
And then you use non native EMF?
No, no.
Fitbits and glucose monitors?
That's what I'm hearing.
I think that they did Rick Rubin's book, Angwell.
No, they didn't.
Oh, well, he had a top agent, too.
We taught, listen, this is, let me just, this is going to have a top agent, but not a top WEF agent.
No, It's not.
If you Google top healthcare book agents, these guys, I agree.
Keep going.
All of them are tied to Agenda 2030.
Okay.
So are you ignorant of that fact or is it fraudulent?
How did you find your agent?
Yeah.
Okay.
Let's talk about it.
Great.
Well, the World Economic Forum called me and said, We want you to write a book about how the pharmaceutical industry and the globalist agenda is evil.
And then they connected me to their special agent.
And then, this is the key part, they put a gun to a million Americans' heads to buy the book in the past six months.
And they made everyone listen to my sister and my podcast and connect from the heart.
So you don't think they had a mind control experiment?
They did a mind control experiment.
Your previous friends in history had no help in propping you up.
So, you don't believe that's the case?
No, I tweeted something and Tucker Carlson's producer DM'd me.
Do you want to see it?
No, I don't need to.
Why?
Because I think the audience is going to listen to this podcast and draw their own conclusions.
And what would that conclusion be in your opinion?
We're going to find out.
So, but Jack, what's your conclusion?
I think you think I'm working with the World Economic Forum on my book?
No, I actually think you are a little bit nefarious and you're not trustworthy.
So, what's your conclusion?
I thought coming in here that you would state the case because you're a pretty eloquent speaker.
You've not been eloquent today at all.
Okay.
And I thought ignorance was a fair game.
But the more you've talked today, the more I feel like there is actually something there.
Now, do I know what the something is?
I don't, but I would say to you, and I think you could discuss this both with Mary and your sister in medicine, when you're not sure about something, we have something called the precaution principle, meaning we should be careful.
So I think anybody who listens to this podcast that's in Washington, D.C., should know.
Who you are and be careful with you before they put you on another podcast, before they give you a platform, before they stick a microphone in your face.
That's all I'm saying.
Okay.
Well, that's what you thought before.
You could be a great guy.
That's what you thought before.
You could be a great guy.
Exactly.
That's what you thought before.
And I knew you were coming in with bad faith.
But I want the people to decide I agree with that.
So I'll happily answer anything.
But on the agent front, when you.
So I spent a year writing the book.
Then we asked various friends in the health community to introduce us to various agents.
We spoke to five different agents through connections of health folks that we all know.
Those are who made the introductions.
We have a fantastic agent who has done books from all different ideological perspectives.
I don't even know how this World Economic Forum, I do not think Richard did Carl Schwab's book.
Uh, the the the actually did.
Who's the name of this guy?
We can have Steve look it up.
We the agency people can people can the agency's Inkwell, it's one of the largest.
It's one of the largest.
Hold on, hold on.
The point that Callie's making is a good point because most of the diet books that are out there actually do have ties back to the same group of people, and this is the same thing that goes on with media.
This isn't not something that is linked so much to Callie and Casey.
This is actually a real problem that I have with all authors with those books.
Well, Jack, let me let me let me let me give you behind the scenes from where I say.
We got an agent.
He then brought it to market.
We got various offers.
We went with Penguin.
And then we wrote the book and had very little oversight on it.
I'd say, overall, from the publishing, it's a little bit woke.
And we had some back and forth with people.
I think.
None of that do I have a real big problem with.
I just think that that kind of stuff needs to be talked about.
I think the big issue I have with it is the fact that it was a big.
Adam Grant.
You know, Saul, no, go up, go up.
He's the Brian Cranson.
I mean, I don't know.
I mean, these are just like, whatever.
So he's got a lot of stuff.
So, Jack, people can make their own decision.
But, like, this is like the source.
Like, we, like, Jack, this is what I'm trying to get from you.
And, like, you know, people can be skeptical.
You're right.
I mean, like, everyone should be skeptical.
Everyone.
You got to question everything these days.
That's the point that Jerry and I are trying to bring up.
That's why I'm here.
And to me, I think that's fair.
I actually applaud you for coming to do this.
Yeah.
And, and, Jack, okay.
I'm trying to talk from the heart here.
Like, I do feel uncomfortable talking about myself.
Like, I don't usually do so.
I might be more articulate.
Like, I think it's not even worth people's time.
I think there is this larger issue in this moment of like trust.
I think that's important.
I think what you said, it's like you should have a bad feeling about everyone.
I mean, okay.
I think you're being a little bit like on a jihad here, but you're right.
I am.
My goal is to take apart centralized medicine, but not the way you're doing it, but my own way.
Well, I might ask you to like.
I mean, listen, I don't get in huge arguments.
I've had huge public issues with people from traditional medicine.
I don't think we should be building consensus necessarily right now.
I don't think you have any obligation to like me or work with me at all.
Consensus is pseudoscientist.
I agree.
I agree.
I agree with that.
I don't think this is a time where we should be building consensus and like, necessarily the goal is for you.
I think that's the point that Mary's been trying to get you to realize when you talked to her on the phone those two times and you guys got into a heated discussion.
You have to realize what this lady has been through.
I agree.
is horrible.
I haven't been through what she went through.
Well, I.
So they're going after her livelihood and putting her in debt.
Hold on.
Let me finish this.
Just if we're going through the stories here, we got an agent, got a publisher, wrote the book.
We have no PR whatsoever.
The Tucker Carlson episode really resonated, I believe, from my sister's heart.
I've been on some other podcasts.
This whole political thing, I think you're getting some misinformation on some of that.
I have tried the best I possibly can to have good energy and a good heart with this and work to bring people together to communicate this idea.
And I've been a small player in that.
There are many other people we know who've been warriors in that.
And I think you, in many ways, have been a warrior in that.
And I think there's a mass consciousness and mass awakening.
So that's where my heart is.
And then I think on the distracting of the message, I just would like to tease that out, what the logic is.
I aggressively want to.
My hope is that we have decentralized medicine, is that we have a true paradigm shift in how medicine is looked at as a more interconnected root causes that we incentivize, that we have full transparent science, that we, my company, the Flexibility HSAs, I think.
I think it would be amazing if people had control over their healthcare dollars, could read your stuff, and actually, instead of getting drugged, could look at light therapy or red lights or whatever other type of modalities you recommend.
I think everyone should be on a journey like you guys have been on.
And I think we should have no mandates.
And I think even just as bad as mandates as our standard of care in Medicare, Medicaid, where it's the AMA top down.
Basically, you're getting a pill if you're sick.
We don't have any curiosity that we engender for people.
So, those are the main principles that I try to talk about and really fully believe in.
And, you know, that's who I am.
I don't even know how I'd be kind of my whole thing with your stuff.
It's like, what is my goal in your head?
Like, how are we different in that state of goal?
I think your goal, and I think this is the point that I really do think you're missing.
Okay.
You have wanted to climb in the swamp from being a little boy, and you've done a pretty good job.
I will tell you that I think you have done a really good job.
So, you have to realize when I see a young man who's trained at two institutions that I absolutely fucking hate, which is fair, and then meteoric rise, and then just so you know, I turned down Tucker Carlson because he's part of the problem.
I would never go on Joe Rogan for the same reason because he's also tied to the global elites.
How is Rogan tied to the global elites?
We'll talk about that later.
But the bottom line is, I've been very public about both of those things.
When I did the Rick Rubin podcast, I didn't answer him for six weeks.
Why?
Because he wanted me to talk to Huberman.
And Huberman's part of the SRI crew, the SRI crew, Stanford Research Institute.
That's who became MKUltra after, and then goes to the Brain Health Initiative.
I don't expect you to know any of this because you're not a doctor.
Fake Emergency Claims00:15:47
Right.
I don't think that you're going to know these things, but I believe the people that are steering where you're going and what you're doing and your message.
Well, nobody's steering, Jack.
Like, I don't actually think they, I think there's a reason that I'm lined up.
You're saying that I'm lying then.
No, I'm not saying you're lying.
I'm actually giving you the benefit of the doubt, Jack.
Jack, Jack, Jack.
This is, then there might be mind control or we're puppets in a larger plan, but this is the truth.
My sister has great, and I think is the best communicator on these holistic concepts that I've ever heard has deeply spiritually impacted me.
And we were deeply impacted by our mom's death without full answers, but that there's this multifactorial thing.
And we started talking about that.
And then I think the energy, as you've seen, Jack, like when you start saying truth, energy starts coming to you.
And then we've gone on these podcasts and I think connected with people from the heart.
So, but you have to realize there's a reason that you haven't connected with me and Mary.
Oh, no, no.
No, you haven't.
Hold on.
Because it's not a food story.
No, no, no.
Jack, Jack, Jack, Jack.
It's a vaccine story.
I call Mary right away and I try to connect with everyone.
I think there's a very generally, Jack, I think this has been pretty positive.
I do think generally, People, even a lot of people that follow you really feel like we're in a really interesting moment while there's still many dark forces that we can actually, you know, maybe change consciousness in the country.
So I don't.
You said that you would not ban anything, the starch.
Well, not necessarily anything, but not high fructose corn syrup.
Okay.
Because Kennedy, there's this.
That's fake.
That's fake.
What's fake?
The high fructose corn syrup ban thing that was going on.
Oh, well, no, I'm not talking about that.
I'm talking about the fact that Kennedy or Trump is going to declare a state of emergency for health.
Right.
And here we go, COVID all over again.
What is going to be, what are the proclamations going to be made in this emergency declaration on chronic health?
So, I am outside and I'm speaking for myself.
There were a lot of ideas thrown out during the campaign.
I don't see a ton of appetite, just, and just my personal opinion is a COVID era state of emergency using COVID powers.
I think there is an emergency happening, but I don't think that's like first on the agenda from my opinion.
I think there is this tactical question, which we could all talk about, of what practically should be done in the first 100 days.
And I think that's a public conversation happening with everybody.
And I think that my opinion, and this might sound woo woo, but we need to change consciousness about health in the country.
We need to be smart about doing big things, not being incremental, not finding consensus, not trying to make friends with everybody.
But there are many people in the country that are starting to wake up more towards the world that you guys see.
And I think very interrelated to what I see.
And I do think Bobby is going to come and go.
Trump's going to come and go.
The biggest victory we could possibly have is that the vast majority of Americans can't go back and see health in a different way.
And I think that would be a huge win.
So, yeah, I have some issues.
I think we're in an emergency, probably not an emergency order.
If you're asking where I think the prioritization should be, I think really going hard at conflicts of interest and transparency would be two good places to start.
You've talked to Trump, I take a lot.
So, have you talked to Trump about the vaccine?
I haven't.
I haven't talked to Trump a lot.
I've.
Well, how did you orchestrate?
But you called him.
So, and I've talked about this.
The things like the Tucker podcast, and you guys have probably seen this.
People reach out.
Rick Rubin, I don't, you know, Nicole, like who.
No, they're friends.
They're friends.
There's a difference.
They're friends and patients of mine.
So there's a difference there.
Okay.
Well, I've made some good alliances with others.
I'm just saying, people, like the energy that you put out brings interesting people to you.
And like, we have been.
Like, I've been connected to Trump advisors, you know, in the past year who I think really care about the chronic disease issue.
And Trump talked about it very eloquently before the Bobby endorsement and got to know Bobby.
Not that particularly well, but there's, you know, a vibe here.
And I think a vibe that he led and communicated that was really optimistic and connected with a lot of people.
So, what's going on behind the scenes with is anybody talking about the COVID shock?
I can tell you exactly what's happening behind the scenes.
There's very little ideology, and it is full on discussions of the childhood chronic disease crisis and the fact that kids are getting so sick.
Yeah, I don't like COVID shots.
I think there's no.
No, because he loves Operation Warp Speed, right?
Trump and all of the advisors and everybody that he has put in positions of power.
Other than, you know, Jay Bhattacharya has said on X that he agrees that the COVID shot should be pulled off the market because he signed the Hope Accord, although the Hope Accord does not have it on their website.
But other than that, everybody, you know, look at the Surgeon General pick.
I mean, that's a nightmare.
I think there's a deep.
And Dr. Oz is a complete nightmare.
Who is the Surgeon General pick?
I'll just be the first one to say this.
Yeah.
I love the Dr. Oz pick.
Okay.
Oh, you do?
Yeah, because centralized medicine, what better way to blow it up than to put a World Economic Forum guy in charge of it?
Okay.
I think Dr. Oz is going to be extraordinary.
You do.
And I think he's going to be.
Wait, wait, why?
Do you think it's possible that a lot of these people, these high level people in politics, and Bobby included, from what you alluded to with your first conversation with Bobby and Rick, that They aren't educated on any of this stuff.
And if they aren't educated on any of this stuff, for example.
I think there's no excuse at this point.
This is the biggest public health event in our lifetime.
You should be up to speed, especially if you're going to have power and a microphone.
Totally.
You have to be.
You missed something while we were joking here.
I actually made a joke about Dr. Oz, and he actually thought it was a good pick.
And guess what?
That fits with my concern.
Well, Jack, I think that the picks Bobby made are.
I think that.
So that Bobby made these picks, not Trump?
No, no, no.
I think the.
Picks President Trump made.
Yeah, I think the picks President Trump made are very strong.
And I think, you know, this is just my opinion.
I think we have people that are aligned with the vision that Bobby and President Trump painted during the campaign.
And that's the reason why I said before that I'm no longer on Bobby's train.
I'm kind of out because of what Mary's saying here.
I had a lot of hope.
And I will tell you that when Bobby got lawfared, Nicole got lawfared, if you go back and listen to the Rick Rubin podcast, Bobby laid his vision out right there about how he's going to do it because he's an attorney and I'm going to go sue everybody like I've done before, like we did with Monsanto.
And the funny thing is, I said to Bobby, it's not going to work.
And I said, I think you need to listen to what Bukele did.
We need to put a constitutional amendment in and take all the fucking criminals out of the mix to begin with.
And he said, Jack, that's great, but not even DeSantis could pass that kind of law in Florida.
But then.
Well, I will say in Tennessee, they're about to propose a bill to ban the sale and distribution of all mRNA.
I know.
Tennessee may be the first.
Well, I just got a call from one of the people, a governor, who this may be a very interesting point to bring up, especially with him, to show you just how what happened in Trump's last term could actually be helpful.
And this may be really big for you in Texas.
So you know that Trump took a lot of shit in his first term about abortion.
And remember, since abortion is not mentioned in the Constitution, the states have to go by the 10th Amendment.
Well, guess what?
Medical freedom is also not mentioned in the Constitution.
That means it would go the same route.
So you know what that means?
Uncle Jack could sit down and talk to a governor.
If a governor is willing to put my constitutional amendment in the state constitution, we got an issue and it's a good issue.
Do I think that's a way to go?
Because then you don't need to deal with Trump and you don't need to deal with Bobby Kennedy.
In other words, you go straight to the state.
Well, you have to realize the states that I think could be very, very interesting here is Trump had a very contentious relationship with his previous primary guy, our governor, you know, DeSantis.
And we know why.
That relationship was destroyed because somebody who used to work at Mercury, which was a PR firm, that's Susie Watts.
Where I used to work.
Well, Susie worked there as well.
And this was not about you.
This is more about her.
But you're missing the conspiracy tie.
Yeah.
But you're not that important, my friend.
I know.
That's why I'm curious you're talking about me so much.
You're not that important about this issue.
I agree.
The issue is could this be an issue because your governor actually is pretty decent?
Well, he's in for the medical freedom.
Ask you, rolling your eyes.
Why?
Why is that?
Texas is bad.
I mean, we have the largest medical center in the world.
We're home of the vaccine mandate, Houston Methodist, April 2021.
We were the first one to do it.
And I mean, even before the president mandated it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Four months before Biden did it.
And, you know, we, yeah, I just see what they did to me, right?
I was nothing to them.
I mean, I'm a solo practitioner.
Pretty small practice, and they like you know, they fleeced me, they squashed me, or they tried to.
And, um, got you know, Abbott, he was always sort of a step behind DeSantis during the pandemic.
I mean, granted, he was better than you know, somebody in Washington state, but he's always been a little bit cautious in the medical freedom.
And, uh, yeah, I've reached out to him a lot regarding my case with the medical board and haven't heard anything back.
And I, you know, there's he has close ties to the medical community, um, so.
I don't know.
The transition.
Wait, you were saying you like Abbott, though.
And I can't remember what the.
The reason I'm hedging my bets, I can't say everything, but there are states around Texas that I've already talked to.
And Texas knows about these talks.
Alabama is progressing well.
I'm just going to tell you, I think I'm a little bit probably more optimistic on state than I am federal.
Yes, I agree.
And the point that I'd make to you, since you and I are Floridians, you know, I'm Congressional District 1 and you're down here.
Mm hmm.
Um, very few people know that Matt Getz is someone who represents me, and I'm the reason why he kept going down to El Salvador because I kept writing him letters saying you need to come down and look at what Plan Bukele is.
And you know that I feel very strongly about the Santas and I feel very strongly about the Florida Surgeon General.
That is the guy that should have got the job because if that guy gets the job, the jabs are over because they're basically over here, and you're a Floridian.
I'm a Floridian when I'm in the States.
That is the kind of leadership that we need to see at the federal level, not the state.
And the fact that we haven't got those picks in and we hear what Callie's saying as being an insider there that.
No, I'm trying to make some good choices.
Well, and we are disagreeing with that.
Well, you'd agree with Jay.
Jay is the only one right now that I actually think is pretty good.
But the point that I'll make is that.
He's actually confirming for me what you're and I is feeling is that it's not going well on the federal level.
So, we may need to start paying more attention to the state side than not.
And I think that that's where you and I are in a pretty good situation.
Can I add on to that?
Try to constructively.
So, first off, Latipo, totally agree.
And, you know, I think he's a great leader and should be having a national voice.
And that's my opinion.
So, on the picks, I mean, I agree with your frustration.
I mean, like, this is.
I mean, I think we're in a big opportunity federally.
I think we need to be doing aggressive state actions.
I think people should be listening to you, Jack.
I mean, like on your ideas and on this data.
I mean, you might not believe that.
I truly believe that.
Just so you know, they are listening to me.
Good.
Everybody in Washington, D.C. reads my tweets.
Just so you know that they do.
Okay, good.
Because I have confirmation that, but realize something else.
I'm the guy sitting at the table that wrote a constitutional amendment.
I know, Jack.
Jack, that's like that's actually in their hands, and they don't want to do something with it.
My, like, in the United States, my literal goal in life is to help get radical ideas and transform ideas into our health.
And what I'm trying to tell you is the people that you think are going to help, they're not helping.
So, so I think I, so Jack, I'm super cynical about DC.
I don't think you are.
I think you're actually, I think you're still looking for that job.
No, so, so, so we can get into my story on that.
Um, you might be right.
I mean, we all have psychological.
Hang ups that we are working a lifetime to get over.
And I've explained kind of the continuing to collect, you know, plaudits along the way.
I mean, sure, like everyone has their wounded child.
I'm sure you do and are working on that too.
I mean, like, no, no, I mean, everyone's got their traumas.
I would say that everything did change when I, you know, decided to focus on this issue and Casey and me to put our hearts out.
And, you know, everyone is the hero in their own head.
And, And has pure intentions, probably, but we are trying to spread a message of light out there.
And, you know, I think any type of power you might be overstating, but like, you know, like you, we're trying to push things forward.
It's not power, Callie.
I want you, I just think this is the part of you that comes off so disingenuous.
You are an expert in legalized lying.
That's what PR and lobbying is.
Let me finish.
It's not debatable.
But you told me that you reformed, and I am taking you at your word.
You have to realize that propaganda is a tool of the government.
Obama has weaponized it against us by law.
And the pharmaceutical industry can do it on TV.
That's how we lost our First Amendment.
You know that we talked about it.
We talked about it, which you acknowledge I'm trying to stop.
But we talked about that on the last podcast.
My point that I'm trying to say is if the propaganda doesn't go away, On the federal level, we're not going to be successful at all.
That is the point.
And the point when you say, Well, Jack, I don't know about this and that, you have to realize, Do you understand?
You know, I don't want to be a dick with you and throw the gauntlet down about ignorance and fraud.
But when I say to you clearly that the propaganda arm here is a big issue, and the fact that the people you used to work with, that's their fucking notice on the mic.
I'm calling out, Jack.
Well, Jack, Jack, respectfully, you've done a lot, you're pushing a lot.
I don't think anyone's talked more about the need to ban DC farm advertising and how nefarious that is and how that allows the pharmaceutical industry not only to brainwash people but also to buy off the news itself.
Politician Accountability Issues00:15:12
None of the people that Trump are putting on the federal level are doing that.
That's the point I'm trying to make.
It gets into a logic problem.
So I'm talking about that, bringing that as much to the national stage as I possibly can in order to subvert it.
Why wouldn't I just subvert it in the first place?
Well, I guess you.
Can you answer that?
No, I guess you missed my point.
By you saying that to me, you missed the point.
The point is, you're okay with what they're doing at the federal level, but you're not okay with what they're doing.
I'm not okay with what they're doing.
I'm not supportive of President Trump, what he's doing.
He's appointed the best reform minded group of people for HHS in American history.
I'm extremely supportive and extremely optimistic.
I also am extremely.
I think it's the status quo.
Who's a more reform minded HHS?
Group of people.
This is, this is, Marty has pledged not to go to pharma after this.
I think all 20, the past 20 years, every single FDA commissioner has gone straight to pharma.
These people right now are not going back to pharma.
So, Jack, I would say if you investigate and if you're honest, the past 20 years of HHS leadership, this is the most reform minded.
You might not think it's reform minded enough, but it is.
No, it is.
Let me tell you what it's about, my friend ideation without execution.
Ideation without execution leads to deletion of every good idea.
And I don't give a shit what they say.
I want to see the action.
I 100%.
No, you're willing to give them a fucking olive branch now.
And I'm not.
Jack, I'm not giving anything.
I don't deserve shit.
Do you want to know the truth?
We have to hold their feet to the fire.
Hold on, hold on, hold on.
We can hold their feet to the fire, of course.
But I think the question is it's a fair question.
How do we support Bobby and Trump and this team as much as we possibly can?
Or maybe that's not what you think you should do.
No, we shouldn't support them at all.
They need to do the will of the people.
Right.
That's what they need to do.
Not the will of Callie.
Not the will of Cali.
Cali wants to be, let's transparency, transparency.
What do you think we should do?
I think you'd fucking burn it down.
That's what I think.
Burn it down.
Literally, what would you advise to do?
I would tell Elon and Vivek to close fucking places down.
And I'd start with the intelligence community.
Can we back up?
Hold on, hold on.
I'd start with everything tied to science.
Jack.
Because there's nobody worthwhile in there.
Can we step back and actually calmly talk about what you're under?
I'm very calm.
Okay.
Can we talk about what your 100 day plan would be?
Constitutional amendment.
Okay.
So, what would be your recommendation of how to.
Anybody associated with COVID goes to Guantanamo Bay first and foremost.
Okay.
That's it.
That's the first thing I do.
Okay.
And I know that if Getz was in, that'd happen.
That's the first place.
And then I'd start changing laws.
The first law I'd change, it's a 1980 law that allows.
Scientists paid by taxpayers to benefit from research.
That should end.
Yeah, I don't think there's anyone in the country that's talked more about that than me.
So, well, I got to see it.
It ain't going to happen.
Okay.
And with the people that Trump's put in, the second thing that needs to happen is the vaccine liability law needs to go by the way.
And here's the big issue the first 100 days, the only thing Bobby should focus in on, only thing, is a RICO case against everybody associated with.
Messenger RNA technology, and that includes the Department of Defense.
How would you do that?
I just told you how I do it.
I'm not investigating.
We already have Fauci's emails, we have Morin's emails, we have tons of data.
You seem to act like the data is not there.
Kevin McKiernan literally could go to Congress and tell them that he found SV40, anybody associated with the FDA approval process, Guantanamo Bay.
I'm not suggesting.
That data is not there.
I'm suggesting that we certainly don't fund foundational research on why we're getting sick, that- Then you don't sell data wrong.
Data is being covered up, and then you don't sell data wrong.
So, you just want to ignore everything that's already out there?
No, not at all.
So, you want to kind of do it on YouTube?
Oh, I think as much, Bobby's talked about getting rid of the FISA department, just open source and release as much as we possibly have.
That's a huge part of transparency.
We need accountability, though.
Yeah, people need to go to jail.
Hold on.
So, and again, my story is.
We're not interested in your story.
We're interested in the story of We the People.
Hold on.
Hold on.
Well, I'm giving my opinion.
Is that any like we all come from different perspectives?
I am just trying to think, just intellectually, like this is what I like doing is like, how do you channel this spiritual awakening I believe many people in America are having about our healthcare system being broken and the incentives being destroyed and channel that into actionable ideas that can get done in the first year?
And that's not like me.
I'm not controlling, like, you know, I'm the one person.
You're speaking like a politician and a lobbyist.
Well, well, Maybe.
See, and I feel.
Maybe, definitely.
No, no, no, hold on, Jack.
My story is.
That's actually what our big problem is with you.
My story is, and this is for you to respond to, is that talking about practicality puts your guys' alarm signals up that I'm somehow trying to subvert something.
It's like we are at the time now where.
We actually should feel that way.
Okay, but there is a question of what should be done in 63 days, right?
I just told you.
But the people that we know have committed fraud need to go to Guantanamo.
I don't think.
Suggesting to send people to Guantanamo might be the best political.
I mean, Jack, I don't care about the political part.
I do.
He knows, like, if he is in this world and he understands how to talk to these people and communicate with these folks, like, you understand, you do understand that saying that sending everyone to Guantanamo is like an unrealistic thing, it sounds crazy, right?
No, it doesn't.
Let me ask you a question.
What happened at Nuremberg?
Did we have a discussion with the Nazis?
Jack, Jack.
I understand what you're saying.
Jack, Jack, do you?
Because he doesn't.
No, I understand what you're saying, but what I'm trying to.
Do you think we should be sending people to Guantanamo?
I don't know how, what the logistics are, but I think the spirit of that is correct.
I just, you know, there's probably a different way of doing it.
Yeah.
But the bottom line is we need swift, immediate accountability.
I mean, this is, I don't, I just feel like.
Does the poll think we should be sending people to fund the money?
No, no, no.
Why don't you call her and ask her?
Jack, but like, you know, why don't you call her and ask her?
These people that, you know, pay you and that are, you know, friends with you.
Yeah.
You know who pays me here?
Right here, Callie.
Look.
Okay.
Bitcoin.
So, not who pays me here.
No, no, no, no, but I'm a huge.
I'm a huge fan of Nicole.
Get it fucking right.
Hold on.
I'm a huge fan of Nicole.
But like, but like, oh, I don't think you are.
Oh, I am.
She used to be like you and then she's flipped.
Hold on.
We don't need to get.
No, I'm just saying people in the more in the political arena aren't calling for people to be sent to Guantanamo.
Like, that's right.
Because guess what?
They're all complicit in it.
You're right.
Congress voted for this stuff.
You are Congress.
People like Nicole, people that are on the.
Nicole wasn't a politician.
She's a patent attorney for Google.
And by the way, I think she's been a warrior on this.
I'm just saying like, You're being very selective here, saying that.
No, I'm not.
Yeah, you can.
I'm a diagnostic.
I think a lot of people.
Unlike your sister, I'm the diagnosis.
What's your hatred in your heart for my sister?
You don't know her, and she's not a homeless woman.
I just think it's kind of weak that she quit and she doesn't have a big voice.
She has a big voice on this topic.
Which topic?
Bro, are you going to keep dancing?
Wait, this is your video on the vaccines?
The videos that you.
You have all the stuff he sent, but.
Yes, yes.
I have everything.
I have everything.
Do you want to show them?
No, it's fine.
I mean, there's a ton of videos of us talking about vaccines, and that's just inaccurate.
Yeah.
On the Rogan podcast specifically, the JRE episode, she did mention vaccines.
And Megyn Kelly, and every.
And every.
And so I talked a lot about Ozempic and other pharmaceutical drugs as well.
Talked about the vaccine schedule in every podcast, but do you acknowledge that?
Yeah, I've heard her talk about it, but not loud enough.
She's talked more about Froot Loops and glucose groups.
I don't think Casey's ever talked about glucose monitors.
I talk about Froot Loops, and I don't think Casey has ever talked about Froot Loops.
But where are we getting here?
So I think that the point he's making, it's like.
Maybe we come from a different angle.
I actually really sympathize with what you're saying on this revolutionary mindset.
I intellectually am trying to think about what could actually get done in the next 100 days and how to recommend things for that.
And then being practical on that stand front isn't betraying the movement.
As far as what the people are asking for and what this movement is asking for, I think there's a battle right now to define what the Maha movement is about.
And I believe that it was fueled by significant frustration from a broad base of the American people about a multitude of issues.
Including what you guys are talking about.
And I think the American public asked for transparency when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor or when the Mossad ran two planes into the 9 11.
I think.
What happened then?
Hold on.
Did they want accountability?
There's a premise.
There's a premise.
Mary, how many people have died from the jab by the estimates that you know?
The low end to the high end.
The numbers vary, but 500,000?
So you're saying.
What's the high end?
What's the high end?
The guy in Austria said it close to 17 million.
Right, right.
Well, that's worldwide.
So let's just say it's probably neither of those numbers, somewhere in between.
And we don't know.
How far there should be.
We don't know.
But, Callie, let me ask you a question.
We just say I have some plant because I don't want to send you money.
I want to ask you a question.
How many people died in World War II from the United States?
457,000.
Yeah.
So we already have more people on the low end dead, and you want to talk about Froot Loops?
No, no, no.
What?
That's not good faith, man.
Oh, it's good faith.
No, it's not.
No, it's not.
I just want to.
Okay, this is what I want you to do.
Do you know that's not good faith?
No, I want to.
Because I think I want to hear you adapt to the data and you're not.
Hold on.
If that is true, because you're a big data guy, but you don't like this data.
No, I'm not a big data guy.
Oh, yes, you are.
I've heard enough of your podcast.
Oh, like I cite data.
Correct.
Okay.
But it's data that suits your ideology.
Jack, and you've said this.
Is the stuff I'm saying really not in the service of what you're trying to say?
No, it is.
But you're not talking about the elephant in the room.
I just told you what the elephant in the room is.
Jack, we have killed more people.
In the last four years, than we did in any world war we've been involved with.
And you want transparency.
I'm going to give my true.
Yes.
Because I do not think the American people are with you on that statement right now.
I disagree.
Because look, if they were with you.
And guess what?
I'm glad you said that.
Because this podcast, you're going to get fact checked.
Oh, no, no, hold on, hold on.
Do you think that the American people are with you that the COVID jab has been a bigger issue than World War II, the COVID jab specific, and that should be pulled from the market?
Not even an inkling doubt.
I strongly support, and I'm not being facetious here at all.
I strongly support your voices being heard and being part of a policymaking process to bring that to light and to have swift and immediate decisions based on that data.
Like, like, like, like you're pinning me down on making.
I'm not trying to pin you down.
I'm trying to point out.
I think it's almost like you're tone deaf.
You just said on Danny's podcast that you are so happy with Trump's picks.
If you go on Twitter, have you been on Twitter?
Have you seen the kickbacks?
Nobody likes his best.
Jack, you might be in too many dark spaces of Twitter, but that's not reality.
Are there spaces that he's made?
Yeah, Jay.
The FBI, the FBI.
I like Kosh.
Jack, maybe the places you hang out with on Twitter are different than other places.
I would agree that they're different than yours.
Yours, I think, are a very interesting place.
The only place I've been dragged into that's.
I think most Americans, I was going to say, is from some of your stuff.
A lot of them, I think Americans generally, would you agree?
I think there's generally a sense of possibility and optimism in the country right now that we haven't felt in a while.
Not anymore.
I feel that.
I do feel that.
I do feel there's a sense of optimism.
Not in health.
In general, I do.
I would agree with you that.
That Trump absolutely was a way better pick.
You know that I flew back here to vote for him.
Right, right, right.
So there's not, that's not a question.
My point, and I think you guys are both missing what me and Mary are saying, since the picks have started to come out on the health side, no one is happy.
Well, in your Twitter circles.
Right.
Oh, okay.
That's kind of rude.
I mean, no, no, I think it's a little bit, but I think it's okay.
No, I think it's a fair criticism.
Let's just say, yeah.
So you're saying that I don't represent most Americans.
Right.
And we're the idiots.
No, no, no.
Let's look at the uptake.
That's not what I'm talking about.
Hold on, hold on.
We can't stand up for Jason.
That's what I heard.
I think that if you look, okay, let's just do the uptake of the COVID shot.
That's irrefutable.
That represents all of America, right?
So if people believe in the government, they would follow the government directives and be lining up for their 11th booster.
But they're not.
And they would take in their kids to get the COVID shot.
Which is good.
No.
Right, but it's a reflection of the mindset.
It fucking blows your narrative straight out the wall.
It's a reflection of the mindset of America.
Hold on, Jack.
No, it actually.
Jack, as a general, we can talk about this as much as you want, but like, it's almost.
No, you can't because, dude, you know what?
You're talking to yourself.
It's like we're trying to dance and you don't move your fucking feet.
And it's really frustrating.
What do you mean?
No, it's a gun to my head to say that you're a dickhead.
You know what the problem is?
You're a lobbyist, bro.
Okay.
That's your DNA.
Jack.
And that ain't going to change.
That's.
I realized that an hour ago.
Is there anything Callie could say that would help you feel differently?
No, not anymore.
Nothing.
I think he's done a good job in two hours and 13 minutes of actually.
I this I will say.
Can you say something nice?
Yeah, thank you.
I thought on the acid test I had for him on ignorance or fraud, I don't think he's a fraudster.
I don't, but I think he's fucking incredibly ignorant.
And I think his ideology, his previous history, his family history is a role here.
No question in my mind about it.
Now, how big a role that is, I still haven't defined that.
I still haven't defined that.
But do I think is there anything he could do?
That will change your mind?
Yeah, I think if he goes back to DC, because it's clear as a young man, this is what he's cut out to do.
There's no question in my mind.
I thought I wasn't a good communicator.
No, I think you are a good communicator.
I just don't think, I think because of your ignorance on this issue, you won't be effective.
Okay, I understand you're not going to be angry on what is it possible for Jack Callie to do that would help people.
He needs to go back and fucking wake some people up and say, you know what?
Data Supporting Tumors00:15:35
Maybe the way we're reading the room, maybe we're tone deaf.
I think that's kind of what we're doing right now.
So, as long as this episode doesn't get blown, you know, blasted off YouTube for some reason or something.
Let's put it on Rumble.
Yeah, no one fucking watches it.
Hold on, hold on.
Jack, so you'll grant me that potentially Casey and I, in our hearts and heads, care about this issue, started talking about it.
I'm dealing specifically with you.
I haven't dealt with your sister yet.
I care about this issue.
I'm talking about it.
It's very dark, very complicated.
I'm very, Jack, I'm not sleeping.
I'm so worried about this agenda getting subverted.
Like, it's very high stakes and very, there's very bad people out there that are wanting President Trump and Bobby to not be successful.
Like, I, I, I, that's all I'm thinking about.
Like, and, and, and not that I even have that much of a role in this.
It's just like, as a person that cares about this issue.
So, like, I'm with you on that.
We might have different perspectives on it.
As far as I don't know, maybe there's a difference on blowing things up.
I mean, geez, Jack, I mean, I felt like what I was trying to say in the past couple of years was, You know, pretty dramatic.
I certainly was trying to communicate effectively.
I don't think it was dramatic.
I think people have been saying what you've been saying for since Atkins.
And guess what?
And a lot of the people.
That's not the message that resonates with America.
Well, I think it's not.
I mean, our book is so well and people listen.
I mean, I don't know about books.
Books selling well.
You know how many books?
250 diet books are written every year.
And yet, what happens?
Every time we keep using non native EMF, all the way back from 1893.
The N. Haines stuff gets worse and worse and worse.
Well, Jack, you're saying.
So that's what I'm saying.
If we don't make the accurate diagnosis, we're not going to solve the problem.
Jack, you're saying the message hasn't resonated.
I'm just like, maybe.
I'm trying.
I think most people.
What do you want me to say?
Like, you want me to be more radical?
No, I want you to actually take the data that Mary and I are bringing to you that more people die.
Why are you picking on me on this?
Like, why aren't.
What's the fixation?
Because you're the fucking guy on Tucker, Carlson, and Joe Rogan, bro.
You're the fucking guy on Tucker, man.
No, you don't get it, bro.
What?
I must not.
This is where I'm saying.
This is.
Where you get to be a fraudster.
Okay.
I'm going to be honest with you.
And you know, I think that this podcast is going to polarize many people who look both at you, me, and Mary.
Can we stop talking meta about the podcast every second and just talk?
No.
I mean, you're on this meta.
We've already talked.
Let's just go.
I've already got my answer.
Okay.
And what is that?
I already told you.
I don't need to repeat it for you.
If you need to listen to it, you can listen.
Steve will send it back to you by email.
What, can I ask you, what prompted you to call Trump and Kennedy?
What was the.
That there was a deep emotion watching Trump get shot, and a thought that there might be a rare window to spread unity.
That when traumatic things happen, it resets how people think about things.
Were you working with Kennedy at the time?
You were on his campaign?
My sister and I have been very loose, like with Kennedy.
Like, we're, I think, really aligned on.
This message of the childhood chronic disease crisis, and have shared some ideas with him, have gone on some podcasts with him, have spoken at some of his events, and haven't talked to him that much at all during the campaign.
I just felt, from DC, I think we all, and maybe you honestly, attribute more thought and strategy to what people do than actually I see happening.
That when you're in a campaign or a high stakes situation and things are happening so fast, you actually don't have.
Like an opportunity to think about where you could actually go in a different direction.
So, I had a real strong sense from my experience that maybe there was a different road to go after the shooting.
You know, when COVID, I mean, pharma was ready, pharma was ready during COVID to insert an agenda.
When these unexpected things happen, you know, there's an opportunity to maybe reset the deck in a positive or negative way.
So, I was nervous, but I decided to just call him for 20 seconds and mention that.
And then he thought about it and ended up starting that conversation.
I mean, that was a 20 second conversation.
Yeah, Kennedy.
That was a 20 second conversation that I'm a very, you know, that was Kennedy, you know, just thinking about and deciding.
And they had, you know, they ended up, I think, forming a really important bond.
That was going to go to the grave.
And then he mentioned that in a speech.
I had no desire ever for that to be public.
And he mentioned that in his concession speech.
And then we shared some ideas with him during the campaign.
And then that's pretty much it.
I mean, like, Yeah.
Are you going to get a job in a new administration?
No.
Kennedy has been the most outspoken person in the past on these vaccines in this country.
Not now, though.
And he wrote the book about Fauci, which is literally all about this stuff.
Right.
It's a great book.
Fabulous book.
It is a great book.
Yeah.
But you can tell that he's been.
And why do you think specifically that he has changed his tune?
That's pretty obvious.
I think it's the lobbyists from Big Pharma.
That's remember they said at the Cantillon effect, they're the highest.
The people that are taking money from big pharma, no, no, no.
I don't think it's he's taking money from it.
I think that they are so powerful that they're bringing the forces to bear about what can be done politically or not.
That's where I actually agree with him that this has become a political issue and it's not a medical issue.
And see, the thing that underpins all this is what you and I talked about on our podcast it's the bankers, the bankers are the ones that pay for all this.
And until we fix that problem, now here's the one thing we haven't talked about the fact that both Bobby and Trump are big into Bitcoin as the reserve asset.
Let me tell you something.
I actually think that is the thing that really fixes more than anything Bobby can do at HHS now.
I don't even think it's, I don't think he's going to be successful at all.
Can I, so totally disagree with you on what you said about Bobby, but on the macro dynamic of the lobbyists and these dark interests forming the realms of acceptable debate.
I think we do agree on that.
I mean, that's a real concern.
I think, you know, we have in health this kind of thing called the healthcare economy.
It's like, it's like already, you know, you see this pressure.
It's like anything radical to actually change the health power gap.
Oh, it's going to hurt jobs.
It's going to do.
I mean, it's really complicated, really nefarious.
I, to me, to me, I don't think it's that complicated.
Can I tell you why?
Let me just tell you why.
Yeah, I might agree with that.
In five years, Hukeli changed everything in El Salvador.
So you would say, okay, that's one guy, it's different.
But let me tell you something else that everybody at this table knows.
A guy just got elected in Argentina who had a hundred year problem with communism, and he's fixed things already in six months.
You know what the problem with DC is?
The problem in DC, nothing fucking gets fixed.
I agree with that.
So, guess what?
You know why nothing gets fixed?
It's because nobody's willing to do the hard work.
Like when you have a tumor and you're taking it out, or I have a tumor, we're willing to do the hard work to get it out.
Okay, that's what we have.
This messenger RNA story is a tumor, and that we have to put our time and effort into fixing that one problem.
And we need to do it well because when we do it well, then we can apply that to other problems.
And that's the way it should be done.
I agree with you.
How do you suggest they get this message to the forefront of the people?
His message?
Yeah, what he just said.
How do you, how would you go about it?
I think what you just said is true.
I think what you said is something I'm dealing with, which is that.
I believe that something really positive happened during the campaign and people were woken up on health.
And it actually, my and why I called and what my framework has been, and what if I have any master plan, what it's been, it's been that to weaponize and make change with what we're all saying, and I think what we actually agree with them, general principles on where health needs to go, it needs to be politically important.
It needs to be politically popular.
People need to see it as a politically important voting block.
We already have that.
The problem is no, no, no, Jack, Jack.
Campaigns are one with talk.
No, Jack.
Hold on, hold on.
You want to win people's hearts?
Actions.
I'll be quick.
I'll be quick.
It's not, health has not been a politically important issue.
People vote on issues like guns, abortion, like really hot topic issues.
I do believe the Maha movement made health actually a voting issue.
How about Callie?
I disagree because guess what?
The issue right now for the United States is COVID.
Hold on.
That's a health issue.
I agree.
I'll be 30 seconds.
So the Maha, would you agree with that?
You are again redirecting here.
That's the problem we have with you.
Okay.
Well, just speak for yourself, but okay.
The MAHA movement catalyzed, I think, a new coalition of voters that came to President Trump, first time women voters, independents.
I think Bobby Kennedy and the MAHA movement had an impact on the campaign.
That gives political currency.
And this isn't anything about Trump or anyone, this is just politics.
That gives political currency to actually get something done.
Now, exactly as you said, you have to bash your head against the wall against this crazy, corrupt, ingrained bureaucracy to get anything done.
And it's much, much, much harder.
The campaign was great.
I think it was really positive.
It's much, much harder now to get something done.
And it seems like maybe we've got two leaders to show the.
It seems like maybe that this debate or this whole question is like, should we be giving up on Bobby and Trump on the health agenda?
Because it's going to get hard.
It absolutely is going to get hard.
And I think ideally we're all supportive and not, you know, kind of all.
I don't think we're giving up on them.
What I'm saying is campaigns are talk.
We need to appreciate that.
Mary has been, she said it several times.
We need heads on the platter and the appropriate heads.
We don't need a lower level guy.
We need Fauci's head on the platter.
And based on who he has appointed.
Appointed other than Bobby, other than Jay Bhattacharya, it deflates my hope that actually something's actually going to happen.
You don't have very many strong willed, outspoken people who have been appointed to the health positions.
And I love Jay Bhattacharya, but he's a little on the, in terms of how much outspoken and how he's on the more cautious side.
And we don't have anybody who's just out there saying the COVID shot should be pulled off the market, even though there's lots of support for that.
If you want to, you know, the data supports it.
The data supports it.
Forget about people's opinion.
The data supports it.
Historical precedent.
Like if you're a lawyer, historical precedent matters.
We pulled the swine flu after a couple of deaths.
We have, by the estimates we just talked about, 550 to 17 million.
You name it.
Guys, we've talked about this 50 times.
I'm not standing in your way of any of this information getting out or that policy getting done.
I think it should get out.
I don't know what you want from me.
I, I, I, It is not my issue.
I'm being educated on it.
I fully support that information getting out and that being part of a policy process for any pharmaceutical product that's killing a bunch of people.
Generally, I think politically it's important.
I absolutely am not coming out with ideas on food bans.
I think we should have mass transparency.
I think start with that from a tactical perspective.
I think if a drug is killing millions of people or hundreds of thousands of people, we should have that information out immediately.
You guys should not have your voices silenced.
I think that's why Elon and free speech is extremely important in this.
And I think nobody's saying your way in that.
I'm certainly not.
Like, I don't know what the risk is.
Is this the first time you've heard that the COVID shots are killing millions of people?
You're acting like it.
Killing millions, killing.
Or just, you know.
But you've never heard that before.
Let's just say, let's speak more clearly.
That the risk outweighs the benefits of the COVID shot.
Is this the first time you've heard that?
Well, I think personally that they do.
And I think it's insane to give them to kids.
I haven't gotten boosters or anything.
And I think that's step one.
I think there should be absolutely no man in the room.
How did you come to that conclusion?
You talked to your sister?
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, we're all, you know, yeah.
Did you take the shot?
Did you take the general public?
I took the first time.
So let me ask you a question.
Hold on.
Wait a minute.
Now we're going to get to the numbers.
And then I haven't gotten boosters.
That's fine.
Do you know about Kevin's data?
That he just guys, guys, I am super distrustful.
No, but I mean, do you know?
No, forget about that.
No, don't go, don't go where you think I'm gonna go.
No, no, I don't.
I 60 billion copies of DNA plasmids and SV40 promoter in it.
So I want you to just, you know, you're a normal guy, yeah, you're not a science guy, right?
Somebody told you that you had 60 billion promoters in your body doing that you didn't know about.
Do you understand why, as two guys sitting across the table, and I'm telling you that the guy who did this used to work in the Human Genome Project?
He was sitting here talking to Danny about it not that long ago.
And that episode's been pulled by the powers that be.
Crazy.
Right.
So, what I'm trying to really get you to understand do you understand that I and Mary and your sister have to advocate on behalf of people that have that problem?
Do you think that's reasonable?
Do you understand why, when we question you about it and what Mary just said to you, Callie, do you know what you took?
What?
The jab.
Do you know what you took and do you know what you got?
Bad.
But yet, you're not willing.
I don't think.
Are you saying you're not willing, though?
You're not willing to pull the jabs, to make a statement.
I am not.
Make a statement to pull the jabs?
Yeah.
Very easy.
It's a very easy thing to say.
And that's what we don't understand.
But nobody, like, no, I'm not.
So you're okay that you got 60 billion copies of SV40 in you?
Is that what you're saying?
No, I think it's really, really concerning.
I think it's a gen. Is it concerning?
Jack, I can say this.
Jack, just let me just answer your question again.
I am taking the same position as Trump and Bobby and many other people that are trying to figure out a way to absolutely dismantle.
The pharmaceutical and sick care incentives that have led to this catastrophe of the COVID response, including the COVID vaccine rollout, and I think a wider issue of our sick care system.
My answer to you, if you're asking for my policy recommendation.
No, I'm asking you for you as a human.
I'm not taking another COVID jab.
And do you think it's ethical for a doctor, knowing that there are 60 billion copies, to put that into another human being?
I think that it's an ethical question.
I'm not asking you.
If what you are saying is true, then.
No, I do not think it's ethical.
If what you were saying is true.
Ethical Questions on Jabs00:09:06
See, it wasn't that hard, Callie.
No, no, if what you were saying is true.
It wasn't that hard.
Hold on.
I made a call.
If what you're saying is true.
What's your reluctance to get another shot?
What's that?
What is your reluctance to not get another shot?
That.
Based on what?
It's a good question.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I think it's a fair one.
It's the risk.
Yeah, the risk reward.
Okay.
The risk reward.
I guess my interpretation of the risk reward.
Would you recommend that your dad get the COVID shot?
No.
Would you recommend your child get the COVID shot?
Absolutely not.
So, who would you recommend?
Why do we need to keep these COVID shots on the market?
So, guys, I'm not evil for saying this.
Let's just back up.
Not evading.
There's a couple different levels.
There's let people make their own decisions with full transparency.
Now, I think that's very evil in a lot of ways because our system is fucked beyond recognition with the.
So, I get that.
I get that.
I get that's actually what you probably think.
No, what I'm saying is in her hospital, remember what she said?
Her hospital, they're mandating.
Which is crazy.
So, there's the minimum is.
Full transparency and let people make their own decisions.
I actually, probably like you, am a libertarian, and I honestly think deregulation on drugs, as long as there's full transparency, let people experiment what they want to experiment.
I'm generally a supporter of that.
Now, I get that.
Now, I kind of have this problem with food.
You know, I get attacked for, you know, oh, your nanny state, you want to ban these.
I'm like, the ingredients that are in the food is totally a construct of a very corrupt system and correcting the corrupt.
So you probably feel me saying, like, you probably feel me saying, like, Like, just let people make their own decision is not correcting for the incredible injustice.
But that's one area you can have.
That's decentralization.
We have to have that.
I think any type of mandates are completely unacceptable, particularly on this issue.
You have to have that.
And I think everyone's aligned with the insistence of absolute truth and transparency and no mandates.
Then you get to a situation where you have truth and reconciliation and transparency on this being a bioweapon, on this being really killing people, on this being totally misled.
My personal opinion, if you're asking from a macro policy perspective, and I could be wrong on this, this is my opinion, is that we're not at that point of absolute utter ban.
And actually, the principles, probably that we actually agree with on a lot of degrees, is more of a libertarian full transparency and let people make their own decision with no mandates.
So, what I, again, I am not standing, and Jack, we're having, we're connecting, I don't get why you're tweeting hundreds of times about me.
Like, I'm not standing, I am.
Truly.
Wait, before y'all start fighting, hold on.
We're not fighting.
I think we're connecting.
I am not trying to stop progress on any of this.
Okay, this is what I want to say.
I'm not.
That's my opinion.
I think we're not quite there at a full ban.
Okay, all right.
Politically.
Because going against mandates is a very safe thing to say right now.
It was not safe when I said it.
When I said it, I.
I tweeted about it in 2021.
You picked out some other tweets.
I have.
I actually have tweeted about mandates in 2021.
I'm not accusing you of anything.
I'm just saying that.
The paradigm has shifted.
Okay.
Because at one point, it was very dangerous to say, eliminate, you know, mandates are wrong.
That's what I got canceled for.
That's what Methodists went after me.
And one day, I tweeted 25 times, vaccine mandates are wrong over and over again.
Right.
And then five days later, five days later, next thing I know, I've been suspended.
Isn't it suicide for these folks to literally ban something that was mandated two years ago?
Isn't that suicide?
Yes.
No, because they have liability.
But they actually have liability.
Where the issue comes in is the Rico case.
Right.
Exactly.
That's the difference for sure.
But.
So now, I guarantee you, five years from now, you'll be saying, Oh, yeah, those COVID shots are really bad.
We should have taken them off the market a long time ago because the paradigm is going to continue to shift because we are not giving up.
I mean, I'm just getting louder and louder and louder.
And especially, you know, it'll be very interesting to see once Trump takes office because I can guarantee you there's so many people that went along just to get Trump in office.
And if he disappoints, it's going to be a big deal.
People are going to completely freak out.
I would say that there's been a very positive coalition that's come together that could redefine American politics, who's very focused on Naha issues that include getting the corruption out of our pharmaceutical systems.
I think that's a great opportunity, too.
Yeah.
Sorry to interrupt.
Yeah.
And it's very clear, especially with people like you who have been outspoken with it.
And I think it's a very good thing that you're doing this and you've garnered a ton of attention on X.
I mean, you have like over half a million followers on X.
And meanwhile, simultaneously, you cannot be found on YouTube.
I think that speaks volumes.
Yeah, exactly.
I've been canceled and I have these videos that run on other platforms, but I was quickly removed off of YouTube, which I think is unacceptable.
And I signed.
But it's the world we live in.
It's normalized.
It doesn't even bother me now because I'm just like, oh, yeah, of course.
It doesn't even, and that's sad.
It's normalized.
I think anything, obviously, anything.
That the powers that be that you have a lot of distrust for, both you guys and should, are like preventing the American people and infantilizing them from asking questions about is a huge, huge red flag.
And I think, you know, not just with health, but what, you know, Trump is talking about with this, you know, Elon and everything, it's like getting more sunlight out.
I think we, I think, you know, again, like Jack, I'm not saying I'm not aware of the crazy forces and the huge reasons to be pessimistic, but like I do think the first I'm giving you more credit now because.
You are walking a very fine line.
Don't think that I don't understand that.
Okay.
I'm not looking to harpoon your reputation over that.
I get the fact that this is a very, very fine line for you.
If I was in your shoes and I wasn't a doctor, I could see your perspective clearly.
I think what I came here.
Really, to find out, was that truly who Cali Means was or not?
Now, the thing is, I think you could have gotten around this much, much easier than we did today if you actually would have said that.
Now, remember, I respect you for running your own race because that's what I teach my customers to do.
But I need you to always be mindful in the future.
That talk about the big elephant in the room.
Let's not just talk about our ideology.
Like, I didn't talk about some of the ideology that I have about this whole thing because, to be honest with you, this is where Mary and I are very strongly aligned.
The vaccine is the biggest issue of the day.
I would tell my people it's always about artificial light and non native EMF and big tech, but she's right.
Jack's not here talking about that.
It's the vaccine and the amount of people that have been killed by it.
To be honest with you, history will be written someday about what some of us did.
And I'm just going to tell you Kevin McKiernan is an absolute hero.
Philip Buckholz is a hero.
But I'm going to let you know there are people out there that you're acquainted with that got them the data they needed to have this story come out.
And those fuckers in Washington, D.C., they're going to pay a price for it.
Sooner or later, they're going to pay a price.
And the people that really made this decision, I don't think they will, but I think they're going to.
Jack, so, you know, okay.
There's, I see it as this coalition of many different perspectives coming together.
And I think you guys, and one of the reasons I want to come here is because I, you know, and I appreciate connecting with you.
I knew your heart was just totally.
Fighting for your patients.
That was so clear to me.
And I think you, in my head, you share a similar desire I have, which is we're warriors and trying to.
And Jack, I know in many places your heart, you've suffered a lot.
You've been, you know, taking a lot of arrows much more than I have and are fighting for this.
I've seen myself as one person, not supplanting anything, but just trying to help.
And I think one way, you know, this can really be positive is to wake, you know, and as many people as possible up.
And, you know, I don't think we should have incremental change, but I think, you know, I think you guys would probably agree with it.
We got a shot like in the next two years.
I think if we don't get some progress, and I believe it's more holistic.
I do, my brain is.
Book Purpose as Gateway00:03:38
I don't.
I think it's all COVID.
But if we agree with that, then how do we get there?
And talking about it as aggressively as you're talking about it in the first day is not necessarily, and you can grant this, there's a separate between what the goal is and what the strategy is.
So you're saying that because I'm not aggressively going, It might not be the right strategy to tell on day one to put everyone in Guantanamo Bay and mass bans to achieve the result that you're looking to achieve.
That's what I would just ask you.
Like, I think there is a difference.
And I believe that in your guy's head, that me thinking about the strategy is a sign for suspicion.
There's no question.
You have a different call for it.
No, no, no.
I don't know.
I actually don't know if that's true.
Did we convince you?
No, no, hold on.
So, actually, we shouldn't have to convince them.
What should really convince you is hopefully Danny gives you the Kevin McKiernan podcast and you listen to what he says in there.
Well, can I be honest with you?
I am focused on, I mean, what drives my passion is talking about a multi dimensional front on kids that includes a richer and richer data points.
That's what I'm passionate about.
I'm not passionate about going in podcasts and arguing.
That one thing is more important than the other.
And I do, and we've talked about this, I do think that, you know, what's happened to ultra processed food with kids is a really important issue.
I'm not trying to even stack rank that.
The book actually, very importantly, says food is very important, but it doesn't stack rank.
It actually says there's a multidimensional threat.
I do think.
I do think it's not vaccines.
No, no, no.
Well, so I would say.
Yeah, you can't back away from that.
It doesn't have the word vaccine in it once.
Hold on.
And it was written during COVID.
Is that true?
It doesn't have the word vaccine in it once.
It doesn't.
I read it.
I can tell you.
Hold on.
Hold on.
The book was turned in, yeah, like before, like 2021, 2022.
The book, the book's, the book absolutely, and this isn't like some secret like strategy.
It's like we didn't want to talk about the COVID vaccines in the book.
That wasn't even the discussion I had with anybody.
It's just like that was not the purpose of the book.
It's an off limits discussion.
No, it was never.
It is an off limits discussion.
It was not saying we never discussed.
Never discussion with me and Casey.
Never discussion with people who do podcasts.
Hold on.
You want to have a career.
Hold on.
Okay, sure.
Never discussion with me and Casey.
Never a discussion with our publishers.
Self centric, I don't know, but but like I would say, you know, that wasn't what we were trying to write about.
Like, we were trying to make a book for a parent who is totally in the dark about this shit.
And we talked about this that that book could be a gateway.
I think our book's probably been a gateway for people, like, probably hopefully going more down the rabbit hole and like listening to your guys' stuff.
Like, I think there's a lot of overlap.
Like, that was the purpose of the book.
The purpose of the book is that I read some other books and kind of started going down the rabbit hole.
And I'm more down the rabbit hole now.
So, like that book, that was the purpose of the book.
It was not a deliberate thing, not to mention, but again, I think it talks a lot about pharmaceuticals.
And I do think the book is a gateway, you know, as part of the gateway that's happening with many things.
So if that book leads people to follow you and leads people on a journey, I can tell you, I think it has actually opened the door for a lot of people on a journey.
And it's not a journey to love vaccines and trust the medical system.
So that was the goal on that.
Overlapping Policy Goals00:08:27
As far as what I'm passionate about, like, I just can't emphasize this enough.
Like, I want you guys to get the message out.
Like, we should have these conversations.
I think the tactical, I think it goes to your point about DC.
My personal opinion is you can get a couple big things done.
This is my thought.
There's got to be some really big wins that are really visible and really quick on this impugning this idea of our sick care system.
And then as wins pile up, there's an 80,000 person department, and we can hopefully get good people in there, and they can do.
Bureaucratic things to unwind the deep state along with the vague, along with Elon.
And I think there's a very optimistic mission there.
My personal opinion is if you go day one and tell to lock everyone at Guantanamo, it's actually going to subvert.
I would actually potentially argue, if you want to be conspiratorial, that you're the one that's actually trying to subvert exactly what you're trying to get done.
And you know what?
I respect your opinion of that, but here's where I know you're dead wrong.
Okay.
I might be.
I got Bukele in Malay as proof that it's right.
Well, he's a dictator.
He's not.
Well, it's a little bit less democratic checks and norms.
Yeah.
How can you say that when he got 90% of the vote?
I think he's great.
I'm just saying there's a little bit less checks there and, you know, fine.
But I would say there's less checks in the United States.
Jack, Jack, Jack, we're looking at each other.
I know you agree with this.
Like, I think it's a little bit your head in the sand saying, well, if only they just accepted my constitutional amendment.
That's what you're saying.
No, I'm not.
What are you saying?
They did it without the constitutional amendment.
That's the whole point.
Jack, like, Jack.
They slashed and burned government.
They closed places down that needed to be closed down.
Jack, I am like.
They didn't have a discussion.
They didn't wait for transparency.
Jack.
They cut the cancer out.
You have been very effective.
If you want to strategize, not that I could even offer you that much, your idea should get out there.
I fully support that.
Nobody's standing in your way.
I don't think anything I've done has in any way stood in your way.
I absolutely will listen to this podcast.
It is actually exciting listening to you guys talk.
And like the idea of in the next year, more truth getting out there.
Like, I support that.
And to Callie's point, or to the point that was made about the book not having vaccines mentioned in it or not having the COVID shots mentioned in it, whether it was intentional or not, that is definitely something.
Like, if that was a book that I was writing, that is something I would absolutely think about.
Whether I want the book to get out there, get picked up by a publisher, and gain any sort of success.
I know that if I talk about that, there is a way higher chance that that thing is going to hit the chopping block and not get out there.
With, like I said, I don't know if it was intentional.
He says it wasn't intentional.
The honest truth is that's.
It's definitely the truth.
The honest truth is it was like, like, you know this.
Like, you guys could see, like, I am absolutely trying to communicate these concepts as effectively as I can.
Never have I been like, I can't talk about it.
I could give you that pass.
I don't know if I can give your sister that pass.
I'm going to be honest with you.
She's a doctor.
There's a difference.
Like, I don't expect a lobbyist who went to Stanford and Harvard to really understand the ethics of this issue.
Yeah, yeah.
But me and Mary.
On the front lines?
No.
Look, when you see people dying from this, no, I'm sorry.
Well, listen, Casey can defend herself when and if she chooses.
But I'd say, in the realm of doctors who have kind of tried to speak out and shed light on the industry, you guys are very, very out there.
I'd say Casey's far along on the spectrum, too.
I mean, she has been disinvited from a lot of the cocktail parties and has definitely gone and gets the system and has been on her journey and is trying to communicate in her way that I believe is very spiritually based and has impacted and connected with a lot of people in a way that's not.
In any way contradictory or not overlapping with what you guys are trying to say, honestly.
So, you know, that's my opinion on that.
I think, just again, we have a passion to try to articulate this overarching thesis about the sick care system.
And I think, Casey, you know, she was in the front page article just a couple weeks ago attacked by the New York Times as being anti vax.
Like, she's published a lot about vaccine liability.
And so it's just like, it's a huge.
Does he find that?
It's just not even true.
If you Google New York Times Casey vaccine, I mean, she's literally, you know, so like she's out there.
She's taken some hits.
So, like, I mean, if we're together here, Jack, I mean, you can do whatever you want.
Listen, I torment doctors.
I've actually become friends with some of them.
Like, I, you know, I actually think the dialogue's good, but I'm not trying to build a consensus with them.
I don't get why you are doing hundreds of tweets.
It's just kind of like, you know, I don't know.
I think in your heart, I told you to do this.
I think in your heart, you are fighting for the right thing.
I don't want to get into motivations.
But it's just like, whatever.
This is where I'm coming from.
I just, I just, I only fight for the truth.
Good.
And I think you have a record of that.
I mean, I think some of it's out there, but you got to be a little out there to fight for the truth.
Whatever.
Everyone's got their own tactics.
I think the macro, like the macro thing here, maybe what's like applicable to most listeners is like, I think you guys are hanging on this question of like, I don't know, like, are we in a time of optimism for health?
I don't think me and Mary are optimistic anymore.
We're not.
That's what I said.
I mean, you and Danny, the table is definitely seesawed your way.
We're not feeling it.
I don't know.
Whatever.
Yeah.
Steve, is it behind a paywall?
You can't find it.
I think in the first hundred days, we're going to find out who's right on this.
Oh, you might be.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Whatever.
Which one is it?
Trump's transition team?
I don't know.
Yeah.
It's like Casey's and anti vax.
It was like a couple weeks ago.
Type in Casey needs.
I'm just saying, I'm just saying.
It's fine.
You know, we've spoken about this, and I feel like you're.
I don't think you've spoken about it, but I need this to be your top message.
So that's never going to happen.
Okay, let me tell you why.
Hold on.
No, you don't have to tell me.
You already told me for two and a half hours.
I get it.
But do you not grant that me communicating and trying to communicate, which could totally evolve, but I think I can buy you not doing it, but I can't buy your system.
But why?
Like, it's getting the same answer.
Like, why?
Getting people bought into this system being totally rigged against us.
And do you disagree with what my foundational goal in life is from a policy perspective, which is that 95% of medical funding right now, medical spending is on interventions after we get sick, basically on drugs.
And we should free that up to have people experiment about exercise, about light, about whatever.
Like, that's my goal.
I'm actually totally different than you.
I want the whole system blown up.
Great.
I don't even want to talk about this system.
Decentralize.
Yeah.
I don't.
You're probably more, but like, that is like.
I don't.
I'm not interested in that.
That is what I'm trying to do too.
So, like, probably indifferent, but like, so you're telling me that you're not satisfied unless, well, let me ask you, because I know you're very close to Nicole.
That's not her message.
Like, that's not other people's message.
Why aren't you that hard on her?
Why aren't you that hard on her?
I am.
The thing is, you're not actually.
Nicole has publicly stated that the COVID shot should be pulled off the market.
She has.
She is on Twitter.
I'm just giving an example.
Nicole, I'm just giving an example.
Like, if you ask Nicole or Jake, Um, my first two encounters with Nicole, you'll find out that I treated you with kid gloves.
I was brutal to her.
Good, this says K or Casey was floated to be the what would go up to be the head of the what the FDA.
Okay, yeah, just you guys, it's fine.
Yeah, there's a New York Times article which says in her newsletter she questioned vaccines.
I'm just saying, like, like Casey has you know, I don't know, like we have a thesis, but she has.
Do you even disagree?
Do you even disagree with our key thesis?
Like, do you even like, do you even like?
Like, I know you have to say.
Giving Examples of Disagreement00:02:40
I think we all said we agreed.
We already agreed.
So, what's the problem?
I told you what the problem is.
The problem is your sister, even though she doesn't have a license, she's a doctor.
And guess what?
Those people that have DMD, more is wanting.
I give you the pass because you know what?
You're just the.
Sorry, but you do have a gigantic microphone and you have the ear of Kennedy and Trump.
And your whole thing is health.
So, I do.
I'm not giving you a pass, but.
I guess Casey has a little more because she is a doctor.
But if you didn't have this big platform, I wouldn't give you any trouble whatsoever.
Listen, I think this is a great conversation.
I just say for everyone, everyone needs to be on their own thing.
And I think actually outside agitation and disruption and criticism, frankly, it's what I feel like I've been doing the past couple of years.
I think it's fine.
I also don't think there's any moral obligation to be supportive of anything.
And so it's just like, I think.
That there's an, this sounds woo woo, but this is what I think.
I think there's an energy to this movement around Maha.
And the more every part of the coalition could just be like, just trying to make it successful.
I hope you're right.
I, I, to be honest, I hope you're right.
And I could definitely, but, but, but, but, Jack, like, of course, in a year, you could be tweeting about how stupid I was and saying this is all my job to subvert it.
No, it could definitely get subverted.
But like, we're at the moment right now where I think there's a lot of optimism in the country.
So, like, I'm just saying, like, you know, The energy kind of dictates that too.
Like, I think a coalition came together and an energy on this issue came together that's more than the media understands.
Like, I actually think a lot of people have been really woken up.
And I think the campaign Maha message was very positive.
Like, it was very optimistic.
And I think if that could be translated into wins for President Trump and we can be like positive and organized and not immediately distrustful, of course, there's going to be decisions we don't fully support.
Right.
It's like, you know, on the person, but like, Like this is a team that's ready to execute that President Trump picked.
You know, Bobby's in there, nobody's controlling Bobby.
Um, you know, there's a real sense of optimism and positivity.
And and and I got to say this there's a desire to get ideas and thinking and big ideas from everyone.
And I know you're talking to people, it just you know, I'm not interested in the United States, just so you know, it's very imperfect, it's very imperfect, but it's like I don't have the interests, like incentives dictate outcomes.
Yeah, my incentives aren't for the United States, my friend.
When you're decentralized.
Commitment to Asking Questions00:11:11
My interest or where Mary's okay in the office with the patient, and I know the number for that.
Okay, this situation affected every single American, right?
It's a gigantic problem and it's being swept under the rug.
That is why we are so riled up and so passionate and so mistrustful because it affected every American.
It didn't obviously affect you.
I've shown where my heart is.
I've shown where my heart is.
I agree that it affected you.
Why?
Because you got on a podcast and said, I took 60 billion copies and I'm okay with it.
No, no, no.
Let me say I'm okay with it.
No, I'm saying you're okay with it.
You rolled your sleeve up.
You complied.
I mean, oh, What I'm saying to you, as a guy who's a lobbyist, who knows how bad the actors are.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Right?
Oh, if you want to get into my.
No, no, I don't want to get into it.
What I'm trying to say to you is to prove her point.
That's how successful the propaganda was.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's why this is an issue for everybody in America.
Even Callie Means fell prey to this with your message.
And I would think that after this podcast, that maybe you would reflect a little bit on that and say, You know, maybe I should have talked a little bit about this issue and what that means that one time.
Like, the, the, you know, the saddest outcome for this podcast is I don't want, no, listen to me.
I don't want to see what happened to your mom happen to you.
I certainly do not want that outcome for you.
And the thing is, I need you to understand that that outcome, based on Kevin McKiern and science and confirmed by multiple labs, that's a real risk for Cali beans, not a small risk.
Risk, a pretty fucking big risk.
And you did a good job in this podcast saying, Yeah, I'm not doing that again.
I'm not letting my family do that again.
So that's a good thing.
It means that you took your punch in the mouth and learned the lesson.
But what you have to realize as the lobbyist talking to two doctors, that our job is to advocate for our patients.
And when we see somebody floating more on the political side, you need to understand where we're coming from.
All right.
I told you, I know your heart, and we've connected today.
I think you're.
I think we've made some progress.
I'm a bit conspiratorial, but I think I am coming because it is super reasonable, and I think it's high stakes.
And where do we go from here?
You're going to go back to Trump and tell him that he needs to take the shots off the market.
Trump, like Casey, has not even been involved with this.
I'm going to tell you the bare minimum.
This is what I would say for me.
I think that you need to talk about.
I think Danny needs to get you a copy of McCarron's.
So, yeah.
And then what I'd really like for you to do is you stew in those tomatoes for a while and really understand what it means.
You have my commitment on that.
You have my commitment on that.
I don't like this gun to my head of like telling me what my message should be.
You already got the gun to your head.
In fact, you shot yourself in the brain.
And you know what does that mean?
Because she took the job.
Well, let me, yeah, let me be clear about this.
I think you could judge me for that.
This is what I'm not.
This is what I'm actually trying to tell you.
I'm trying to tell you as a doctor that I don't really think you understand truly what you're doing.
You're actually making me think.
I mean, it was evil.
My mom was going to die in the COVID protocols.
We weren't going to be able to see her.
You wouldn't care if you were getting pressured right after he died.
We were scared about seeing my dad.
And, you know, like, yeah, it was like a whole.
It was crazy.
And I'm just going to tell you the reason I brought up what I brought before your mother, because you need to hear this.
You do need to look at the death certificate.
I guarantee you that Stanford.
No, I'm going to tell you this.
Don't worry about it.
You have to.
Your sister should do this and then get the EOB for your mother.
And you're going to find out that Stanford upcharged her unbelievable amounts because of COVID.
Yeah.
So guess what?
That is something for you and your sister to set the record.
We talk about that.
We talk about that.
Well, it's crazy.
You need to go look at it and then start asking the question what the fuck?
Also, we've talked about Kevin McKiernan quite a bit, but I don't think we've really alluded.
So, like, the elevator pitch of his background is he sort of blew the whistle on when he got his hands on some vials of the actual Pfizer vaccine and he discovered in his lab that there were DNA plasmid contamination inside of it.
Not just that, the SV40 promoter.
Right.
And if you go look at the FDA, it was never disclosed to the FDA.
In fact, it was taken out with a molecular tool so that the FDA couldn't find it.
Right.
And so the FDA never knew about this and then found out about it later.
And it turned out Kevin was the one that pointed it out that the evidence was actually in the data, but they didn't talk about it.
And Kevin is a super reasonable guy.
I mean, he's got a really strong background in this stuff and DNA and the Human Genome Project.
And he, He has a very reasonable approach to this thing.
The way he lays it out, it's very compelling.
And it's, he's simply just stating data.
He's not like, he has no, he's not incentivized.
Right.
Right.
Good.
You have, okay.
So let's wrap up.
Like, you have my absolute commitment.
We are all on a journey.
I've been on a journey for years on this issue, spurred by Casey's journey.
Like, the rabbit hole goes deep.
Everything should be questioned.
Like, if what you guys are saying is true, which is like, you know, this is, this is, Paradigm shifting, crazy, not crazy as in you guys are saying, but like crazy information.
I mean, I don't think it should be.
Callie, I want to say something to you, so I hope you take this the right way.
You know why this is, for me, this is from a doctor to you.
You have your mother's engines in you.
Your mother died at 71 years old and you took a jab that has 61 billion copies of SV40 in it.
Do you know truly what that means?
Because I don't think you do.
I want your commitment that you're going to go home and learn about that.
And then when you learn about it and you find out that Mary and Uncle Jack ain't bullshitting you, that you talk about that from your perspective, not a policy perspective, not your wife's perspective, not Casey's, Callie's perspective about what it feels like.
Okay.
Because I'm going to tell you, I just spent a weekend with Nicole Shanahan.
And let me tell you something her perspective about what's happening to her right now.
And what she now knows and how sick she's been over this very issue.
Okay.
It's a big problem, my friend.
So, Jack, let me speak personally for me.
There's massive growing suspicion in my head and everyone's head with the level of obfuscation and lies and corruption that happened during COVID, including with the COVID vaccine.
And what you're saying is super alarming.
You have my commitment that I am going to review that and think about it really seriously.
That's all I'm asking you to do.
And that's for me.
Nothing will surprise me.
And I think one of the things I'm really optimistic about this time is that we can start asking questions and talk and shift some paradigms.
And I think what we're talking about, going against an unambiguous government recommendation, there's huge forces to not have that conversation happening that I'm very skeptical of.
Well, you have to realize something that Mary brought up earlier.
The shot that you took is now being retooled in flu shots now.
Now it's being retooled in other shots.
So, guess what?
The data that Kevin's got, you can't take another vaccine, my friend, because you're the first one you took.
If you do, you are basically rolling the dice just like your mom did.
Well, truly, truly, truly, I mean, if we're a different place now, Jack, I mean, I'd be hoping.
No, I'm just warning you as a doctor to a regular guy that you need to consider this because guess what?
I think the more this gets real for you personally, Then you're going to look at your wife.
You're going to look at your children.
You're going to start looking at everybody around you a little bit more differently.
And you may realize why we're very concerned.
I feel.
I actually think that both of us care about you more than you care about you.
Thank you.
So you're concerned about, I think it's 90% of the American people got at least one.
75%?
You're concerned about everyone.
Yeah, but the interesting thing is.
Where his family's from, it was over 90%.
That's my concern.
I thought at least 90% got one.
No, at least one.
Overall, United States, she's right.
It's around 75 years.
But I thought last I saw this, you're concerned about every single person that got.
Well, no, I can tell you right now, Kevin's data, the things that we've been sharing, him and I have been going back and forth for a long time.
This data is even worse than I thought.
I think the problem now is you have my commitment to look deeply into that for myself.
And it's obviously concerning.
And then I truly hope you can see in my heart, like, want that data to get out and want you guys to be as successful as possible.
And I think it's criminal.
And you've taken so many arrows, Mary, to, you know, speak your truth, which is a disgrace.
And so just remember her truth is your truth now.
You've been informed.
Thank you.
That you're now a GMO guy.
That's the truth.
Remember, when you say pharmaceutical stuff, I hear you.
It's not a pharmaceutical.
Gene therapy.
Okay.
You are just like Monsanto now.
Jack, I'm with you.
I hear you.
I mean, do I not seem like an open minded person?
I want to make sure that that magnitude hits you so you understand why we're saying what we're saying.
I can see you have deep concern and they're saying that with concern, and I hear you.
And I hear the seriousness of what you're saying.
Listen, thank you guys very much.
We just did three hours.
I think that this is really important that we did this.
I think it was really cool that we all got together and got to some sort of Consensus on our agreement, whether we agree with each other's angles on approach or not, it seems like we all have the same overall goals.
So, again, thank you, Callie, for coming.
I really appreciate it, Mary, and then Jack coming all the way from El Salvador to do this.
I gotta go Christmas shopping.
I know you do to hash this out.
I think this is really important for the especially for the people that are listening to it.