Randall Nickerson analyzes the 30th anniversary of the 1994 Rua Zimbabwe abduction, linking recent military alerts to congressional testimonies by pilots like David Grush and threats against him from unidentified men. He details encounters with four identical, non-reproductive biological entities emitting a burnt lint smell, arguing these events represent a global genetic preservation effort rather than simple malice. Nickerson rejects regression therapy, citing his own re-traumatization, while noting neurological damage to abductees' basal ganglia and the resilience of electrical systems during shutdowns. Ultimately, he suggests humanity faces an incomprehensible operation requiring adaptation to survive potential environmental collapse or nuclear war. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, WAV2VEC2_ASR_BASE_960H, sat-12l-sm, script v26.04.01, and large-v3-turbo
Time
Text
Thirty Years Since Rua00:13:33
Welcome back, man.
Hey, it's been a year, been a little over a year.
Yeah, wow.
Yeah, last time you came on here, we talked about your documentary on Rua.
Yeah, and shockingly enough, today is the 20 year anniversary of the Rua Zimbabwe.
Yep, the 30th, actually.
Oh, it's the 30th anniversary, 30th anniversary, and it was yesterday, September 16th.
September, oh, it was yesterday, September 16th.
Yeah, wow, yeah, 1994.
1994.
That's wild, man.
Yeah.
I think about those kids a lot.
Yeah.
What they've gone through, what they're going through.
I've been talking to a lot of people over the last year about this topic.
And, you know, it's, there's something strange.
I've been, I feel like I've made some sort of a connection over the last few months after talking with Whitley. and talking with Michael Masters that if this whole phenomena, this abduction phenomena is actually real and it's not just inside people's heads, that it was some sort of reproductive experimenting that was going on, right?
Because every single case has something to do with reproduction.
And, like I told you on the phone earlier, it feels like, and like I talked with Whitley, it seems like it has stopped.
Since the early 2000s, because you don't hear about these cases anymore.
You don't hear all the big abduction cases.
They happened in the 90s and the 80s and the 70s.
So I think um Betty and Barney Hill were in the 60s, but not anymore.
It's not a topic.
It's not.
It's not a new topic anymore.
It doesn't seem like I think it's been.
Um as far as i'm aware, it's still happening, um just from people I know that are working on it, investigating it, even conversations with people recently, because i've been getting a lot of people contacting me From the film.
From what film?
From the Rua film?
From the aerial phenomenon, yeah.
Right, right.
So, yeah, I think it's just not being covered in a serious way.
I don't know why people are saying that.
That's what puzzles me.
Well, I don't see it anywhere.
Well, you're not seeing it in the public.
Right.
But I've been hearing about it for nothing has changed as far as I'm concerned.
It's just not being, it is being studied through MUFON and different organizations and different private, you know, investigators.
Why don't you think it's being, the people that are still having these experiences are not currently like talking about it publicly?
I don't think people realize like how disturbing these events are, to be honest with you.
You know, there's a lot of people out there.
I mean, just if you can imagine it, which I don't think you can actually imagine it, anything close to what the reality is like, boy, it makes life difficult for people.
And I have to give so many people a lot of credit who've spoken out in the past, who are continuing to speak out, sharing their stories.
I just don't think people realize how impactful something like that is.
You can see it in the wild.
I always compare it to the wildlife and wild animals and nature because we can see how another creature that runs into me in the woods, which has happened many times, and how they react to me, you know, particularly when you're out in far out places in Alaska where they don't see a lot of human beings or even in Africa where human beings are kind of rare, you know, not everywhere, but in certain locations.
And they have a very strong reaction of fear.
Fight, flight, or freeze, you know, one of those things.
And I've experienced it a lot.
So I think human beings actually go through a very similar process with these creatures.
Saying like maybe there's some sort of internal processing that has to happen before somebody can actually talk about this, especially publicly.
Yeah.
Yeah, I agree.
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, it is very, very hard to go public.
I know quite a few people that have.
And the consequences you pay for that, you know.
Unfortunately, in the past, there was a lot of ridicule being diagnosed as crazy or schizophrenic or bipolar.
You know, the list goes on.
It's been going on since the 70s, really, is when they started to try to medically diagnose these people.
So the crazy part, these are witnesses to something.
Right.
You know?
And how they've been handled and treated is completely wrong.
It's really.
It's really, I don't know what to say about that.
Well, so for people that aren't aware, the last time you were in the studio was, I think it was spring of 2023.
You came in, if I'm not mistaken, I think it was April or May, maybe.
Before the hearings, yeah.
April, May, yeah.
When were the hearings?
July 26th.
Yeah, it was definitely before the hearings last year.
You came in here and we discussed your documentary, Aerial Phenomenon, about the 1994.
four Rue of Zimbabwe encounters with the kids in the school there.
And then we stopped recording.
And then you let me know about all these experiences you have had throughout your life.
And you unbeknownst to me, which is my fault being a terrible researcher and being terrible at prepping, you were literally on an Oprah episode that has millions of views online.
About your experiences and you, John Mack, dedicated a whole section of his abduction book to you, which I read immediately after that podcast, and I called you up and I was like Randall, you have to, we have to re-record this podcast like this is unbelievable that we didn't talk about this and um, you didn't want to do it so we did it.
But you're back and I I know there's certain things that you are uncomfortable with discussing as far as like, intimate details of your experiences but um, Can you lay out for people basically like, how this whole thing started for you?
Wow, man.
I really didn't want to talk about it, you know, like because it's not about me.
Right.
You know, right.
It's about all of us in a sense.
So I've been trying to help bring this to people's awareness.
I did it for.
For my entire life.
And still am.
And I'm trying to, yeah, it's not been easy.
That's for sure.
And I didn't really want to talk about it.
I think a lot has happened since our last interview.
You know, we had the hearings and then things got really crazy after that.
Yeah.
And what, during those hearings, what was the biggest takeaway from those hearings?
I feel like so much has happened between now and then.
I don't even remember.
Like, it's just like this world is so chaotic.
Like, they're trying to kill the president, and then we forget about that because the Olympics are going crazy and they're having people reenact biblical scenes with Apollo.
And it's just, it's such a circus we're living in right now.
It's such a weird reality.
So, yeah, do you remember what the takeaway from those hearings was?
Yeah, I got there.
I just got to tell you, I got there.
Oh, you were there?
Oh, yeah.
Oh, wow.
I sure as hell was going to be there.
I sure as hell was going to be there.
So when I heard about it, a good friend of mine told me it was happening.
And I drove, I think, from Tennessee, where I was screening the film, all night or whatever.
I forget.
And I got there and I got in line the night before.
I was first in line.
Damn straight I was going to be first in line.
So, because you know, when you actually see these things, when you actually experience them and have to go through that process of dealing with it yourself and even and getting beyond the disbelief that is in yourself that these things are real.
I mean, that's part of it too.
A lot of people, it's so mind-blowing.
People don't understand like how impactful those experiences are.
So when I got to the hearings, I was sitting next to Tim Gallaudet, is that his name?
The Navy Admiral, Rear Admiral.
I'm not sure.
He's been speaking quite a bit.
Tim Gallaudet, something like that?
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
And I got to say, those people who are coming out from the military side are um, you know, they just deserve a lot of credit.
This fellow, for what?
The yes okay, yep and um.
So I think what came out at those hearings, you had Ryan Graves, David Grush, David Fravor oh okay yeah, you got two top gun guys.
Yeah, one's an instructor at top gun.
I mean, come on yeah, Grush is, you know, top of the intelligence chain um, and they're being honest about what they've seen, and uh, A lot of the things that moved me as I was.
There were the things that David Grush had found out, because that all rang true to me, because I knew before that what he was saying, all those things were true.
So, I mean, I cannot tell you the bravery.
I have such respect for those people, you know, David, all of them.
Lou Elizondo, David Grush, Ryan Graves, Ryan Graves, and and Dave Fraber, and that's just a few, because since that time, so many more people have have come forward and I just hats off to them.
I really personally appreciate it, and I know there's a lot of people out there who've seen these things that feel the same way like, thank you so much.
Finally, after all this time um, and all this effort people have put in to try to to bring it to the public, because that's kind of what it's about.
It's not about yourself, it's not about your own ego bs, it is about All of us, our entire species.
Yeah, so the takeaway from that was, oh my God, we're in a different day.
I mean, since that time, we've had a lot more just incredibly brave people coming forward to share what they know.
And I know it's not an easy, none of this is easy, none of it.
It's not going to be easy for a while.
To confront this.
For who?
I think for everybody, to be honest.
It's definitely not easy right now for a lot of people that have had encounters because a lot of people who've had encounters with these things want to block, they block it out because it's so disturbing.
It changes your worldview.
It's ontological shock, which people are using that quite a bit now.
And it's true.
John Mack used it back in the 90s.
I think he actually had a good grasp on. what it would do to humans, you know, the human.
I think there's a big difference between somebody who's experienced these abductions versus these aerial crafts that Navy pilots are seeing.
Because we're so disconnected.
The whole hearing, if I'm not mistaken, is about crafts that Navy pilots are seeing that we don't know what they are.
Are they violating airspace?
Are they putting Navy pilots in danger?
And then Grush basically came out with like, I heard through the grapevine through somebody else that we do have biological entities or pilots of these crafts, but there was like no zero corroboration.
And not only that, it was like we don't even know the names of the people who told you this, who told them that like it, it's so disconnected.
But it's not.
HelloFresh Free Meal Kits00:02:57
I mean, that's what that was.
The public, you know the majority report when, when they spoke to him privately and there were meetings going on that whole time Before and after the hearing.
So, and then I think there was a skiff that, a couple of skiffs that have happened since that time.
There's one coming up again.
So, yeah, I mean, you just can't share a lot of your sources.
And like to me, it just felt like that was just a big dog and pony show for the public.
It didn't feel real.
Like it felt like it was part of some sort of controlled, slow drip disclosure for humanity.
It looked like it was a, it looked like a, like a, like a, like theater to me.
Maybe.
I mean, Maybe.
I don't think so, but I mean, you got to understand that it is such a big deal that they're going to try to control the narrative in any way they can because it's such a big deal that it will affect our civilization in ways that we're not even aware of.
Take the stress out of your holiday season this year with me by getting 10 free meals at HelloFresh.com slash free Danny.
HelloFresh is amazing.
They make mealtime hassle-free with delicious, home-delivered, chef-crafted recipes.
That are way less expensive than takeout.
Whether you're craving hearty, comfort food, trying to please picky eaters, or just looking for a calorie smart meal plan, HelloFresh has all those options and more on a rotating menu of 50 recipes to choose from every week.
Step out of your recipe rut and make fun, flavorful meals without needing to hunt for specialty ingredients.
And HelloFresh's pre portioned ingredients mean less food waste.
Easily customized recipes so each meal is just the way you like it.
There's always options available to trade or upgrade proteins or swap out side dishes.
Plus, check out HelloFresh Market for over 100 add on items like desserts, quick breakfasts, snacks, and a lot more.
And this month, they have Thanksgiving items to help you wow the crowd with minimal effort on your part.
And no one has to know.
With HelloFresh, it's meal planning made easy.
And with someone like me who's always on the go and always busy doing something, it's super convenient for me to grab meals before I hit the road or have something quick before I go to the gym that's not going to take me a lot of time.
And plus, all the stuff that I order from HelloFresh is packed with delicious, nutritious ingredients and protein and all that good stuff.
And today our listeners can get 10 free meals at HelloFresh.com slash free Danny.
Applied across seven boxes.
New subscribers only.
Varies by plan.
That's 10 free HelloFresh meals.
Just go to HelloFresh.com slash free Danny for 10 free meal kits.
HelloFresh, America's number one meal kit.
And they're trying to get a handle on all that stuff.
Officers Who Let You Know00:14:31
They have been for a long time.
You just can't just tell people.
It's groundbreaking.
It may take a long time, actually, for this to it's not fiction.
That I can tell you.
It's not fiction.
There's something definitely unsettling about, like, we talked about this on the phone earlier.
Out of all the outlandish podcast episodes I've recorded on this show, there have been two or three now, two in recent memory, that have been fully blocked from YouTube search, meaning that nobody can find them by searching for anything on YouTube, like even typing in the name of the guest combined with the name of my podcast.
And those two episodes have been A, one with a guy named Chris Bledsoe, who talked about being abducted and talking about aliens and personal encounters with these entities.
And B was recently with Whitley Striever.
You can type in the names of those podcasts, the names of those people, followed by like the word interview or podcast or even my name.
And you literally get a list of videos about them from the History Channel.
That have less views than my video that was uploaded like two days beforehand.
So, if like those videos clearly don't violate any policies, any YouTube policies, right?
Which, right, so they can't strike them down or remove them.
But there's some sort of bizarre thing going on where they're unable to be searched for.
So, if there is some sort of whoever is behind the scenes operating at these social media companies, They're making videos about alien abductions unsearchable and they're hiding it or turning the volume down on them so that people can't find them.
It's super bizarre to me.
Out of all the content that I've done, I've had some questionable people in here before.
And like, I don't see why they would choose this topic to silence.
Yeah.
Well, that's kind of why I'm part of it.
I think that that conversation is not, we're not there yet to really actually have that, the conversation about.
With the public, you mean?
With the public about personal contact.
Why not?
I think, you know, people, if you look at the way it's gone, we're starting from the outside, you know, about these objects even being real.
We're still in that argument, you know?
The public is hearing about it, but we're not to what they're doing here.
who they've interacted with, why.
You know, there's so many things that, I mean, I feel that's why I just don't want to say too much about anything I've run into because it's two years away.
It's two years away.
I've been actually told that.
Like, yeah, you need to be quiet for about two years.
And I kind of think, like, what's okay?
Who's telling you you need to be quiet for two years?
Oh, man.
Since the hearings, I mean, this is just incredibly, I can't even believe I'm saying this.
But since the hearings, which is July 26th, I had a man come to my house, military man.
I knew he'd seen combat.
I could see it in his eyes.
And he threatened me for 20 minutes in my own yard.
Not kidding.
Basically telling me to keep my mouth shut.
Four months later, I got a physical assault.
Not by the same man, but the same type of man.
And then four months after that, that was April, I got another physical assault.
I got punched in the chest.
They knew where I was.
Man it was, it was, it was so bizarre.
And he punches me in the chest he knew where the cameras were and on the street and then puts his arm around me real quick.
I mean, I didn't know, I didn't know this person.
He just approached me on the sidewalk and he was the only one there and he put in front of your house.
No, this was at a restaurant that I tend to go to.
You know once, once every week or two weeks, i'll go to a restaurant and uh, and he put his arm around and said, let's go for a drink.
And i'm like I don't know who the?
You pardon my english, but you know uh, That was extreme.
And it actually turned out that man was the same man who was caught on my cameras behind my house like three years before that.
So I don't know.
And then there's been three incidents since.
So, I mean, I can't believe I'm saying this.
I can't believe it's happening.
I mean, I've traveled around the world.
I've gotten followed by the Zimbabwean CIO, which is our CIA.
I've been confronted by zimbabwe's intelligence agency?
It's called the CIO.
Yeah.
Wow.
Yeah.
I've had intelligence officers follow me in South Africa, Canada.
How do you know they were intelligence officers following you?
Well, in Zimbabwe, it's very clear.
They let you know who they are.
That's nice of them.
I made it.
I mean, when you first experience it, it's shocking.
I mean, you were terrified.
You realize that this person is very powerful, who they represent.
And I was with somebody who knew.
What was happening at the time, too, because I probably wouldn't have noticed it.
She did.
She can tell you the story, too.
So oddly, you get kind of educated about who these people are and how they operate.
I just never thought I'd see it in my own country like this.
For what?
Did these guys who approached you, you said one guy approached you in front of a restaurant, another guy came to your house and approached you in your front yard?
Yeah, the first time was at my house.
And when was this, approximately?
August 16th.
2023, August 16 2023, right after the hearings.
But it was five o'clock, 5, 30.
What did the guy identify himself at all?
No, say where he was from, did he say?
Oh yeah, I asked him all those questions.
Well, I first of all I thought he was somebody who had had an encounter himself coming to my house.
To that's what I thought, because he was really um, he kept talking about the subject matter in a very, very smart, legal way, like he was.
It was so brilliantly done I can't even tell you didn't introduce himself or anything Yeah, and he literally made up the name as he went.
And then he told me, I asked him where he worked.
He said he'd been in my house before in my garage.
And I knew he hadn't because he could, he would have seen one of my vehicles.
If he, if first of all, nobody comes in my garage unless I know them.
And what, how he described one of the vehicles in the car was if you saw it from the air.
Because if he had been in that garage, he would have known that wasn't an original type of vehicle that it was.
Wow.
Okay.
It looks like a Shelby Cobra, but it's not.
It's a hand-built 1959 MGA with a racing Corvette drivetrain in it.
So you pulled it out in the driveway and he saw it on a reconnaissance satellite or something?
I mean, it really, I knew.
Anyway, it was just, yeah.
And then he told me where he worked and I drove immediately after he left to see if he worked there.
And it was a fire department he said he was with.
That was one of the things he said to me very clearly.
Like, I said, what do you do?
He's like, I put out fires.
And I have a lot of friends that are firemen, police officers, military guys, friends of mine I grew up with.
And he said, yeah, I put out fires.
Sometimes people make it, sometimes they don't.
Very clearly.
This is one of many threats that went on for 20 minutes.
And what I think the reason he stayed so long was because he, probably thought, oh, this guy's not really getting it, which I wasn't because I was, okay, this is somebody, he's coming to me for some reason.
And, you know, first you have to see, is he drunk, right?
Is this somebody with mental issues, whatever.
You go through a list and try to figure out what's going on.
And it became very clear toward the end, which is why he left because he kept saying to me, I'll be back.
I'm going to be coming back often.
Very threatening, physically threatening.
And this guy could have kicked my ass.
No, there's no threats.
On your property?
Correct.
And I made eye-to-eye contact.
And when he would make the threats, he would be in Connecticut.
In Massachusetts.
Did he appear to be armed?
Not a sidearm.
Here.
So that was another you could tell.
I could tell.
And one of the things I did right away was put my arms and my hands so he could see them.
Okay.
Because I understood the gravity of the situation like he had.
This is somebody who's well trained and when I'll never forget, looking into his eyes, I'm like, oh yeah, he's just like the guys I know that went to Iraq, guys I friends of mine that went to Iraq and Afghanistan or even Vietnam.
He's no longer alive anymore.
But man, they came back different and you can see it in their eyes.
Some people call it the thousand yard stare.
It's basically, you've seen things, other people just.
You know you've seen the extreme and it really affects you.
So was he direct In any of his communication with you as to what he wanted you to stop talking about?
Or was this all just like vague, putting out fires?
Yeah, no, no.
There were some direct things.
He knew all about the film that was discussed, but I could tell he was walking a legal line at the same time.
Like, it was really brilliant, I have to say.
It was terrifying.
You know, it, I mean, So, what specifically did he tell you to stop talking, to shut up about?
Just basically, that's what's been said to me for a long time.
Just keep your mouth shut.
That's it.
Just keep your mouth shut.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so then you go into what?
Like, you're just a guy who made a movie about something that happened in 1994, and you were in John Mack's book, but what have you been talking about publicly that would piss them off?
I don't know who this is, first of all, but let's choose our imaginations here.
What would you do to provoke them to show up to your house?
So I had to think about that, right?
I'm like, is this about the movie?
You know, I had to really, really do a lot of deep thinking about, okay, what is this really about?
Yeah.
I think it's some things I've been very aggressive in a sense, not for any nefarious purpose, but aggressive in finding I needed to know personally what was going on, who knew about this.
So I've been to a lot of places and I've spoken to a lot of people and I've seen a lot of stuff, seen a lot of things.
So I think it's more about that than it is about the movie.
Privately seeing people?
Yeah, for a long time now.
Like who?
I can't talk about that, really.
I'm not trying to be a, I just, it's only going to get me in more trouble.
But there's been, let's put it this way.
There's been an awful lot of interest for quite a long time with a whole bunch of us.
A whole bunch of us, meaning abductees.
People have seen it, yeah.
People have come close to it.
Yeah.
That's no joke.
Let's not, you know, I don't think it's a coincidence this happened after right after the hearings.
No, I think the hearings pushed it to a different level.
I don't think they wanted me there, to be honest.
I think they were very surprised I was there.
But I've been that kind of person my whole life.
Like, you know, I'm not going to keep my mouth shut about this.
Not, you know, and it's not like I'm, I'm not against them.
I understand they're human beings just like I am.
And we're, we're all, you know, we're all in the same position.
And I understand their.
concern.
I'm concerned also.
All of us should be right in a certain sense.
But my beef is like, just come and talk to me.
It's like, there's nothing I'm going to do.
Like I, we're on the same page.
You just have to have more information and ability and technology to gather that information to get a bigger picture of what's happening.
But it's still the same thing.
You know, these Top Gun guys are flying antiques compared to that stuff.
Right.
Like there is such a huge gap between where we are and where those things are.
We all need to help.
There's just no question.
So they may look at me as somebody who has crossed some lines because I've kind of demanded to be in the conversation.
But not publicly, which is bizarre that they would go to this.
Well, I have been public though, routinely.
Yeah, but not about anything other than like documenting something like the Rua Zimbabwe thing.
What have you been public about other than aerial phenomena?
Since then?
Since the movie?
Yeah.
Well, I've been on a few podcasts and probably said a few things, but I've been very careful.
Like I'm not interested in hurting national security.
Unfortunately, national security is bonded to this subject matter really intimately in their eyes.
And I understand why.
You know, they're worried about the Chinese.
Right, of course.
You know, and the Russians, both.
Smell Better Naked With Mando00:02:20
And wanting to maintain that advantage because everybody knows that this is the bar of.
this is the shiny object, the bar of gold, the most valuable thing in the world to us.
And whoever gets control of that, you know, is going to have a significant advantage.
Yeah, all the public, all right?
It's football season.
Time for tailgates, touchdowns, smashing burgers, and partying like monkeys with my fed handlers.
And that's why this season I'm only rocking with Mando.
Because we both know the feds can smell your fear.
And that is what makes Mando's whole body deodorant a game day essential.
And even if you're not being openly spied upon, you're still going to get stressed and sweaty when it's third and long and the game is on the line.
So, why is Mando the MVP?
It controls your odor for 72 hours, and that's perfect for long game days like at the bar or sweating out that game day parlays with your buddy at the sports book.
It's a cleansing bar, safe for your whole body, and it deodorizes everything from your pits, your package, your feet to everything in between.
So, it stops odor before it starts.
Yes, even after those tailgate sprints to the restroom.
And it comes in four cologne quality scents.
Like Bourbon Leather, Mount Fuji, Pro Sport, Clover Woods, and new customers get $5 off the starter pack with our exclusive code and link.
So use code Danny at shopmando.com.
That's S H O P M A N D O.com.
I personally prefer Mando's whole body cleansing bar in the bourbon leather flavor, and it's dye free and aluminum free, which makes it far superior to the deodorants you're going to find at any grocery store.
Mando's starter pack is Perfect for new customers and great for last minute stocking stuffers.
It comes with solid stick deodorant, cream tube deodorant, two free products of your choice, like mini body wash and deodorant wipes, and it's free shipping.
And luckily, I have a discount code to help you get hooked on my favorite smelling whole body deodorant on the market.
New customers get $5 off the starter pack with our exclusive code.
That equates to over 40% off your starter pack by using the code DANI at shopmando.com.
S H O P M A N D O.com.
Please support our show and tell them we sent you.
Proof Of UFOs In The Circle00:15:10
Don't let BO keep you on the bench.
Smell better naked with Mando.
It's linked below.
Back to the show.
I just want to have a normal life, you know?
And it's not been possible.
It's just the truth.
So the guy who hit you in the chest at the restaurant, that was after the guy approached you in your lawn.
And was it the same guy or different guy?
Different guy, but I had him on camera two years before that in my backyard.
Same guy.
What was he doing in your backyard?
They GPS themselves on their phone, and I live in the middle of a freaking huge swamp.
It's like 700 acres.
Nobody goes out there.
Hunters, I'll see hunters once in a while.
You never see them caught out of the woods at night.
You know, bears and everything else out there.
And, you know, sometimes I'll get a guy that picks mushrooms.
I'll see, you know, whatever.
I'm not interested.
I'm looking interested in covering the wildlife out there.
So I catch a lot of this stuff on camera.
And these guys came into my backyard, GPS themselves in.
They got caught on two cameras just on the way in.
It's so funny.
You got the place wired for surveillance.
Oh, have to.
Had to, just to be able to, you know, to have some semblance of uh safety unfortunately, but it's.
It served a lot of purposes.
And so this, do you think this guy who appeared on your cameras in your backyard knew that he was on your cameras like he?
Oh, that was the point of it.
He's the camera goes off.
The other there's two of them, and the, the shorter guy, he's like camera, he called, he yells out camera and then the guy, the same guy that assaulted me, he said that That's what he said right on camera.
So the camera is far enough away from me that how would he know whose it is?
Black helicopter's fine.
Yeah.
Because it was on your house, right?
No, this wasn't.
This is quite far out into the woods on the way to the house.
So then they spent five minutes photographing my property from the woods line, which is also on camera.
That's caught on the home security.
You have this footage in your possession.
My attorneys have it.
Okay.
Yeah.
Because unfortunately I've had to go to extreme degrees.
Have you ever talked to Danny Sheehan?
Yeah, I know Danny.
Has he ever helped you with any of this stuff?
He's a big shot attorney.
I know.
He's busy.
Yeah.
We've discussed this a long time ago, actually.
Because as soon as you go public about it, you start to get the intimidation, I guess you would say.
Somebody wants to keep this stuff quiet.
There's no doubt about that.
And I'm not the only person by any means.
It's been interesting to hear Lou, David Grush, all these other people out there saying, you know, telling people like I'm not going to commit suicide.
You know, basically telling people they've been threatened and saying that, you know, if someone's going to make my death look like an accident.
I'm going to come out first and say that.
You know, I did that 20 years ago on paper.
You did what 20 years ago?
Just that same thing where you say to people, you know, my family, I wrote them a long letter like, you know, I'm not going to commit suicide.
I'm healthy.
I'm very careful in everything I do.
Just because there's some actions that have been taken, which David Rush brought up and others have as well, that are real.
And unfortunately, you even have to think about that.
Because I'm not doing anything illegal.
I haven't violated any military borders or anything like that.
Sounds like you're having private conversations with people and that's what they're up in arms about.
Yeah, I think so.
I think they know that I know a fair amount of things I probably shouldn't know and they don't want me talking about it.
Pretty simple.
Um, I just wish they would just tell me like, have a conversation instead of it's like bully tactics, you know and and boy man, they know the human being well.
Yeah, they know how to make a person scared in very particular ways.
It's like it's surgical, like off, we do this and it's it.
It's actually brilliant.
If it wasn't happening to me, i'd be much more fascinated.
And but they're, you know it's, it's incredibly.
Can you give?
How much can you tell me about what this is that they don't want?
They don't want you to talk about publicly and they want you to keep your mouth shut about it.
Like, what is the nature of it?
Is it about nuts and bolts crafts?
Is it about beings?
Is it about what is it about?
I think it's about all of it.
I think it's about a lot of it.
I mean, I don't have anything in my possession or anything like that.
It's just I've seen quite a few things.
Here's the hardest thing about it to me is nobody has any proof.
Nobody has any hard evidence of any of it.
And that's the, that's so wild to me.
You know, it's this whole phenomena just lives on the fringes of our perception.
Well, it, it, I, yeah, but if you have anything over there, you know, that's exotic, you won't have it for long.
Right.
Right.
It's, uh, it's an, it's a national security secret, really.
You know, like not even just, not even like physical material, like not even any like documented proof of anything.
of any beings, of any like, all we have is these blurry fucking videos.
Yeah, I don't know.
There's more out there than people think.
They're just not looking hard enough in a sense, I think.
I think a lot's been actually made public by a lot of brave people, even back in the 50s and 60s.
I mean, my God, when this really finally comes, there's going to be award ceremonies post, you know, posthumous for so many people that took such brave risks to to try to at least evolve us, not tell us everything, but at least to give us like some hints like, yeah, this is what you got coming.
And what's, why are those stories not talked about anymore?
What are they?
Like what?
Can you give us an example of one?
Well, you look at some of the documentaries in the 1950s that were done on this topic.
Some of the brave soldiers, majors, or, you know, from all different branches who came forward Kehoe.
I mean, you know so many brave people that that were trying to tell us and nothing has changed.
Like today, we think oh, UFOs is a new thing.
Well, why don't you watch some of those documentaries from the 50s?
Right, it's all the same, it's the same thing.
It's just people have decided, time after time, not to tell us and I mean, you know, what do we do?
I think the exciting part, because you can get pretty hopeless about that, like, oh, they're never going to tell us.
Yes.
But there's been just some real, I think it has to do with, you know, where we're at, where things are at, the public distrust everywhere, because the powers that be.
Yeah.
I was going to say, here's the problem with the whole thing, too.
Look at the world right now and the way we view reality and the way we view truth, even just the news, right?
It's like the world we live in right now, it's like nothing is real.
Everyone picks and chooses what they want to believe.
It's like almost like the foundational definition of truth has evaporated.
It's so slippery right now that I feel like.
If the government was to come out tomorrow and say these UFOs are real, they're aliens flying them and they're from another star system and they're here to experiment with us, we made a deal with them to do whatever, this, that, and the third.
How many people do you think would believe that's true?
And how many people do you think would believe that the government made up that story?
I think it would be very tenuous.
You've heard of Project Blue Beam, that very project to mimic this phenomenon for that same purpose.
I think a vast majority of people would believe that that was made up bullshit.
Today, probably.
I don't know.
I haven't done the surveys.
People don't trust the government.
That's what I'm trying to get at.
That's the problem.
That's the problem.
And I think if you really want to look down the road, I think the reason people don't trust the government on a big scale is because they have not told us the truth about something very elemental that even a lot of the indigenous cultures have known for thousands of years.
They haven't been honest about it.
For a long time, I'm like, who's got a great handle on this?
Who do I go to after what I've seen myself?
Who do I go to for advice?
You know, it hasn't been here.
I've gone to chiefs and medicine men in other countries and here in the United States.
They know more about it than anybody else.
From an overall standpoint, you know, there are people in our country that have a great technical understanding of what we're dealing with, which is mind-blowing.
But what do you mean people that have a great technical understanding?
Because I really do believe we have their we have recovered their stuff.
Oh, okay.
Too many people I know that are close enough to know that.
And this has nothing to do with the UFO circle.
I have my own circle of friends that are just people I grew up with and people I went to school with who are in the military.
And they have really cool jobs or they're contractors.
So anyway, the good part, it is becoming normal conversation now.
It's never been like that for me.
It's just normal conversation.
Well, the UFO stuff is the abduction stuff is not really not not no, that's not we're not there yet.
That's just why I just I feel like I need a couple like not me, but um, actually I'd rather the the the nuts and bolts flying you know, UFO military thing has become like a conversation you can have with your you know your relatives at dinner, but you know when a aliens pulling you up into a spaceship and Extracting semen is not is we're not quite there yet two years might be it might be more than two years, honestly or what they're like, you know How they behave.
Yeah.
Like I told you.
All the weirdness that is, it is very strange.
All of it's very strange.
Yeah.
Well, like I was telling you on the phone earlier, too.
Like, I don't know if I've had enough time to process it yet or what it is, but Michael Masters' hypothesis of this extratempestrial time traveler idea is just the most compelling thing that I've read on this subject because there's so many pieces of the puzzle that fit.
Right?
Like you have them caring about the planet, Rua Zimbabwe, communicating to these kids that they need to protect the planet and watch out for technology.
Like future humans have a huge stake in this planet.
Way more so, I would imagine, than some sort of extraterrestrial from another star system would.
Number one.
Number two, he's an anthropologist.
He understands human evolution, understands how rare we are on Earth.
There's over 2 million cataloged species of animals on this Earth.
20 of them are hominids.
One of the 20 is us, making it like we're like 0.00001% of all living species on Earth that are upright walking hominids.
And we're the ones that were able to create technology that could leave the planet.
Now, almost, I think all of the other Goldilocks planets that we're aware of that can inhabit life, they have different atmospheres, way different gravity.
Some are binary star systems, meaning that the way life develops there is so much different than life develops here.
Meaning that it would be almost impossible, probably safe to say impossible for life to develop to look like us upright walking hominids with two arms, two legs, a head, two forward facing eyes with the brain that's directly on top of the head, especially when you account for the fact that most of those planets that exist, they're Goldilocks planets, are water worlds.
So, like, the fact that these things care about the planet, they look so similar to us.
And he did, he took.
Um, he looked at hominids from millions of years ago and basically extrapolated to where we are now, how we've evolved from early chimpanzees, and he extrapolated that out into the future and said, We will fully grown adults way out in the future will look like the offspring of our offspring right now.
It's a term called pedomorphism, where um.
Basically, newborn, if you look at our ancestors, like if you look at early chimps, newborn chimps, they look like human children today.
But when the chimps evolve, or when they grow up and they become adults, their head goes back, slopes back, the mouth comes out, comes forward like that.
And if you extrapolate, our future descendants, maybe thousands, hundreds of thousands of years from now, fully grown, will look like our children today.
Mm hmm.
This is coming from a biological anthropologist.
So it's super compelling to me, this idea.
Biological Anthropologist Insights00:10:21
You don't seem convinced, though.
Well, you know, bears spend an awful lot of time on two legs, way more than people think, walking upright.
I've seen it.
Yeah, but not.
Anyway, well, it's just, I don't know.
I try not to, I think the most important thing, because, hey, this species could have evolved here.
That's possible.
Could be time travel.
I'm not excluding anything.
I just, I've heard so many ideas pitched and I think it's great.
We need to do that.
Absolutely.
But the most important thing for me and a lot of other people is just let's just admit that they're here first.
It doesn't matter where they're from.
Right.
We'll figure that out.
And we need as many scientists like Michael.
I think I've met him a few times.
Michael Masters.
Yeah.
And I think it's great what he's doing and everyone is.
I mean, geez, there's so many people that are just doing incredible work.
And there's also like so many of these abduction accounts talk about extracting eggs from women, sperm from men, even like the aliens having sex with the abductees, like with Whitley Strieber's account or David Huggins.
You're familiar with David Huggins, right?
He's in Hoboken, New Jersey.
Wild shit.
Like that you would almost like the first time I ever became aware of any of this was watching David Huggins' documentary that Brad Abrams made.
And I was just like, this guy's nuts.
Right.
That's your reaction to it.
Of course it is.
I lost my virginity to an alien with huge tits.
And he drew these paintings, these amazing paintings.
I need to buy one of his paintings.
I know, I understand.
But they all have to do with reproduction.
Right.
And if you look at the direction the human race is going right now with sperm count, with testosterone levels, with.
The development of technology and our foods being more processed and pesticides, monocrop agriculture being like with, you know, Monsanto and all these companies basically just like laying these fields with all these pesticides that are people are getting cancer from them.
It's like dropping fertility rates, the plastics, the microplastics, and everything.
Everything comes in plastic.
And these microplastics are how Dr. Shauna Swan came in here and she described.
How since we've been testing testosterone levels and sperm count levels since the 50s.
And since the 50s, they've been dropping 1% to 2% every year.
And if you look at the drop in birth rates now, I mean, it's not just the biology of it, but it's also the culture of it.
You know, now women are getting careers and they don't want to have children when they're young anymore.
We're becoming more and more homogenized and domesticated as a species.
This and you extrapolate this into the future with more, the more technology evolves and just the way this world is going right now, there's no way to turn that ship around.
So if this, just like go with the theory that it is future humans for a second, then you take in the account of any sort of natural cosmic cataclysm or a nuclear exchange that could happen that would severely.
Destroy a huge part of the human population, and people would be forced inbreeding would happen in that case, and it would severely bottleneck our gene pool.
So, if hypothetically in the future this happened and we were able to figure out backward time travel, wouldn't we want to send maybe not biological beings, but maybe we would want to send genetically created 3D printed robots back in time to?
Harvest specimens, semen from our ancestors to try to diversify the gene pool of the future if it is being bottlenecked by something like this?
That hypothesis, I mean, I know it's a stretch, but the hypothesis makes no, it makes complete sense.
It's no, it's a great hypothesis.
I mean, our planet's in trouble, period.
We're heading, we're it doesn't matter.
Like if they were I'll just make an argument what if they are traveling back to the future?
They're a little late They should have done that.
I mean from the future.
They're a little late because we're we're in more and more serious trouble But you also have to understand another species and this is also theoretical or speculative They may be looking at us like we do when we're I spent a lot of time in Africa with primatologists and all these other wildlife people and organizations and they They, you know, they monitor the wildlife.
They care about them.
They, you know, care for them to a certain level.
And then when they get out of hand or their environment starts to suffer from too many elephants, so to speak, they mow a whole, they mow forests down.
You would not believe the destruction.
So then they come.
Elephants do?
Yeah.
Oh.
They destroy, they devastate an area.
And then what they have to do is they'll shut that area off and move them into a whole nother area.
We're talking.
sometimes millions of acres.
They'll shut off a quarter of it and let it regrow because the elephants have devastated it.
And then they call them to keep them, you know, their populations to a certain, you know, when a species overpopulates, you start to get more disease.
So anyway, I just see it that I think we're just in a very critical place in our planets.
And I think maybe another species like we do values this place for maybe us, but it's probably not just us.
There's millions and millions of other species.
And maybe there's not a lot of that out there.
Plus we're a resource.
You know, we have a lot of resources here, chemical, genetic, you know, just a ton.
Yeah.
So I don't know.
I, again, I think that we have to just realize that it's happening at all before we can really start to get to.
I think why do so many of the abduction accounts also describe human beings being in the craft with these little weird spindly alien beings?
That's a good question.
That's a really good question.
Yeah, I haven't had anything like that.
But I've heard it.
That raises a lot of questions.
Why?
Why would that be?
Have you ever heard any interesting ideas why from anybody you know?
I think the, well, I've spoken to people about it.
Right.
They feel like there's been some kind of agreement that was made a long time ago between this dominant species and us.
There's kind of like an educational program going.
You know, there there's a, there's a mutual agreement of sharing um to help us evolve um and then and then allowing them to do certain things.
I've heard that for years and I never thought that was true.
There's a lot of stuff i've like ah, that's just crazy.
But when you, when you hear it uh, over long periods of time or, and then you have conversations with certain people that are in a place of power or whatever, and you hear that same story, you start to take it seriously.
I used to think our government didn't know about this.
And it was a bit of a shock to find out that they did.
And actually, I felt hope.
When you deal with it for a long time, you hope that your fellow man, somebody in our species, is on it.
And they are, which is actually a plus for all of us, really.
Because the biggest fear I had was like, oh, no, no one really gets it.
And no one's paying attention.
But yeah, there's a lot of those types of things in this phenomenon that are truly unbelievable to me.
But I've seen enough to say, yeah, I can't count that out.
I can't count that out.
Gary Nolan has done amazing things.
I think he's a great mind here, as is Michael.
Masters and a lot of these people are just you know have you ever talked to Gary did they ever scan your brain?
I've talked to Gary twice no no we haven't got to that point because he's been basically been focusing on military military people that this has happened to oh fine okay okay yeah yeah we'll get yeah he has those area of the brain for people who aren't familiar that the caudate potamine or the basal ganglia I forget I think it's the same thing that's like more dense with neurons these people Some of them have actually had brain damage.
Correct.
So that's the other interest.
you know, just plainly, the interest that these things have in people they've taken are your genitals and your brain.
Pretty much everything else, as far as I know, they're not that interested in.
So I wonder what came first, the hypersensitive, active basal ganglia part of the brain or the experience with these beings?
I'm sure it came from the experience.
You think it came from the experience?
Yeah.
In my experience.
Yeah.
Public Rec Game Changer Pants00:02:58
So you get influenced by something that is not supposed to exist.
And then you have to adapt.
Right.
That's got to blow your worldview out of the fucking water.
There's nothing like that that I'm aware of.
Better than any kind of drug you could ever take.
It's harsh.
Yeah, it's harsh.
And then you, you know, it instills a bit of fear.
You know, the reality is when you see something like this, you are not going to be happily waddling along saying, Yeah, I want to go for a ride.
You know, take me, take me.
That's not the truth.
Tired of squeezing into those stiff dress pants for your holiday party?
This season, unwrap the gift of comfort with the Game Changer pants from Public Rec, the office pants that look like Monday but feel like Sunday.
Imagine clocking in while feeling as cozy as if you were still sitting in bed sipping hot cocoa.
With the soft feel and smooth drape, these pants are fan favorites for a reason.
Whether you're closing deals in the boardroom, Navigating holiday travel or mingling at a company party, the game changers will keep you looking sharp and feeling great.
Public Rec is the ultimate men's clothing brand for blending comfort with style seamlessly.
And trust me, you will not be disappointed.
Stay comfortable this season without compromising style because with Public Rec's game changer pants, you really can have it all.
And for a limited time, our listeners are getting 20% off their entire order by using the code Danny Jones at publicrec.com.
That's 20% off with code DANIY JOHNES at PUBLICRECK.COM.
I've always been super picky about how my clothes fit and feel.
So, when Public Rec first said they were going to send me these Game Changer pants, my expectations weren't high.
They look dressy and they look fantastic, but they feel like pajamas.
It's unbelievable.
Plus, they sent me the Go To hoodie, which is a form fitting hoodie that's super lightweight and breathable, and I wear it everywhere.
The Game Changers are the most comfortable dress pants and the last pair you'll ever need for the office or events.
Also, whatever your body type, they come in custom sizes.
For the perfect fit, so no tailoring necessary.
Public Rec doesn't just rock pants, they have a huge selection of high quality everyday basics.
You can revamp your entire wardrobe with their perfect polos, shorts, and hoodies, like the one I got.
Public Rec aims to redefine men's fashion and offering versatile, high quality garments that prioritize comfort without sacrificing aesthetic appeal, making them ideal for a wide range of activities from work to leisure.
And I forgot to mention, I love wearing those pants on the golf course.
Stop suffering in regular pants and give the gift of comfort this holiday season.
For a limited time only, our listeners get 20% off when you use the code Danny Jones at checkout.
That's 20% off with the code Danny Jones at publicrec.com.
After you purchase, they're going to ask you where you heard about him and just tell them Danny Jones sent you.
Make your pants great again with publicrec.comslash Danny Jones.
Primal Instincts And Animal Nature00:15:32
It's linked below.
Back to the show.
That's what Willie said.
He was like, he's like, I try to sometimes, I try to have experiences with them.
He said he wakes up at 4 a.m. and does yoga and tries to like, Meditate.
No, I think there is an effort.
That's the odd part.
But to think that it's going to be easy and that you're not going to encounter your primal instincts is, it just happened.
It's not that you're trying to think it.
There's like primal instincts in you.
Where you're like a caged animal.
Yeah, essentially.
And you respond like a wild animal to them.
And I think it's extremely difficult to confront that and to get over that.
It's not easy in my experience.
I just have a hard time with people.
I've heard it a few times and I'm not trying to hurt anybody.
It's just not been my experience that um yeah, I went with them and let them, it's like wait, hang on a second.
So what about that?
First, you know, chemical dump that happens when you see them.
You know what about having absolutely no control of the situation.
You're okay with that, like completely no control, and they're physical and they're real.
You know, and not only that, there's a whole bunch of other things going on that We are just not used to.
So, anyway, it's just there's another aspect of this, too.
Is if you don't, a lot of times these people are anesthetized in some way.
So, it takes away that your ability to feel essentially, get into that primal mode or fight and freeze or furies.
And it's hard to talk about this stuff.
Willie said he had an experience where one of the beings like literally started mating with him in his room, and he said he saw an intelligence officer in the room.
Like, there's a weird connection with like military and intelligence to these things, especially in his accounts of it.
He didn't talk about it all in communion, that's kind of like scattered throughout his books.
If you kind of want to.
Sure.
I haven't had anything remotely like that.
So I just feel.
I've heard it from enough people, friends of mine who've been through this, to realize there's something to it.
I just said, nothing like that.
I think that would even make it more damaging in some sense to know that part of your own species is involved in it.
Yeah.
It's hard enough just with that.
But had a human being been in the room with me, I would have been running over if I could.
I mean, this is another thing is all you want to do is be around another human being when you're around them.
You want to be around your own kind.
It's a very, very bizarre emotion, feeling.
Why are they only interested in kids?
No, I don't think they are.
I think they start when you're young.
They start when you're young.
Do you have any reason to believe they stop at a certain age?
I was told I was told that they basically stop when you hit your 40s because you're kind of out of your prime, so to speak.
And a lot of the people I know who've been through this, I got to talk about them for a second.
I mean, there's so many people out there that have, you know, they're not public.
You know, they're just trying to survive.
They've been studied, studied again, against their will sometimes, and they get burnt out.
I really hope that day will come, and I don't think it's anytime soon, where people will be able to be recognized, I guess you could say, and that we get the knowledge that they have.
Because I see it, you know, some of these people are in their 70s, 80s.
I'm like, oh my God, when they go, so does what they know.
You know, that means we have to relearn it, you know, or whatever.
I think a lot of people have a bit different pieces of the puzzle.
What do you make of the theory of some people are pushing that these things are like religious or like have to do with Christianity somehow?
Yeah.
I don't think so.
I mean, I was that way.
When I was younger, I thought I was raised Protestant Christian, and I put it into that category for a while, you know, of good and evil, and like I was just angry.
But over time, you know, I started to look at nature, wildlife.
I grew up in forests, so I was very familiar with it, and it just became clear to me like it is just another species.
You know, it's not, you know, I can't label, and it really helped me a lot to realize, okay, this is just another animal that's extremely evolved.
Right.
That can kind of do whatever it wants.
It's very much an apex creature.
And I'm not as important or powerful to them as I would like to think.
And that's been the kind of humbling thing that happens also.
Realizing your place, in a sense, and um, so I don't even think about it.
This is beyond religion, this is this is really science, and maybe our religions in the past have mis misidentified this phenomena.
Right, and thought totally, because it's all about.
You know the things from the sky, and there's just.
I think we're all learning a lot more about that um, as we grow.
Um, I just hope we don't get in an argument on that level, because It doesn't need to go there.
I don't see these things as evil and I don't see them as good.
They are just another creature that has, just like us, we have our good sides and our bad sides.
We're doing things for ourselves and we're doing things for others.
Yeah.
So, yeah, that was actually a very important understanding for me to come to that.
And other people also, I think, have you have to wrestle with it.
Chris Bledsoe said he's had people in the actual intelligence community verify to him that they are.
Spiritual, religious creatures.
I mean, what is that?
Nothing, nothing, I mean, nothing against him.
Oh, no, he says it was confirmed to him through people that work for the government.
I believe he said that, right?
I think he, yeah, that's what he said.
People that are like work for the CIA.
Like, why would they, like, that's fishy, I think.
When you have people like that trying to tell people like Chris and confirm to him that these things are biblical, these are, this is biblical.
Yeah, see, so that's, but if you listen to, you know, different people who've come forward from the DOD or, you know, the different agencies, the higher level guys, they, that's what they've been saying,
that there's a conflict within the intelligence communities and then the contractors that there is a side who views this as a religious thing and there are a side that looks at the science of it and really wants it to come out because they, they, And I think I've come to that same place.
It's like, well, let's just deal with it.
Do they really, does the faction that views it as a religious thing, do they really view it as a religious thing?
Or do they want to, do they think it's important for that narrative to be out there?
Right.
To like, to prop up society, right?
Because they maybe fear for the collapse of religion or something.
Yeah.
And those are valid concerns for sure.
And I can see why they'd be concerned about that.
I mean, I've had it the same way.
You know, that was a big deal for me was to have a con.
confirmed by the intelligence community.
And that happened in 2021.
For real.
But there was no have what confirmed by the intelligence community?
That I had really been going through what I was going through.
Personally.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
How did they confirm this to you?
Conversation.
I can't go too, but I can't say anything about it.
But I knew they were the real deal.
And I appreciated that, actually.
It made a big difference for me.
You know, when I got that confirmation this is wild.
Well, probably not for a lot of people.
But I'm in the circles, so people know this.
Really?
Yeah, people know.
I mean, I'm probably not the only one it's happened to.
You're taking a backpack.
Somebody in the intelligence community confirmed to you that your personal experiences are real.
Correct.
Huge for me.
In 2021.
2021.
How do you know this person was legit?
Because I could find him.
On LinkedIn or something?
Correct.
No, no, no.
I could look him up and huge resume.
I knew where he worked for, who he worked for.
There was no reason for him to say what he said.
And he actually gave examples.
So, and that, I mean, it just, when you go through this your entire life and you're questioning your own sanity around it.
His first name wasn't Jim, was it?
No.
Okay.
I know who you're talking about.
I had a conversation with him too.
Yeah.
I did.
Yeah, I did too.
I had a phone call with him.
Yeah.
Wow.
No, he was, I also got confirmation from him in a big sense too.
There were several people actually, but it was one in particular who sat me down.
We left our phones, went out to a back couch, back out of this whole area.
I had a private conversation and I laughed through a lot of it.
Because I thought he was joking, you know?
And he said, no, no, really.
You really have to listen to this.
And he said quite a few things, but it was.
How do these people feel about this?
I think they know it's going to come out.
But how does it personally affect those people?
Do they tell you how they feel about it, how it affects their lives, like knowing this kind of stuff and not being able to share it with anybody?
I.
Well, Kim, they've sort of been in the audience essentially watching this happen, knowing it's real for a long time.
So I think in some of these people I've met that they feel good finally that they're doing the right thing.
Are they afraid of it?
I think it's a mixture.
Same with everybody.
It's a mixture of awe and fear.
And I think that's true because this could literally change all of our lives in a positive way and help rescue us in a sense.
I hope so.
But it's also terrifying.
But I feel like those people I've interacted with feel like they're getting a weight off their chest.
Like that, this is something they feel good about.
This is not an operation where they're, you know, making here, we're going to do this to do this.
There's heart involved, and I can tell they actually care.
And that's a relief.
It's been a relief.
I can't believe what's been happening in the last year.
It's really in the last year?
Yeah.
I mean, it's been going on for but just this past year has been unbelievable.
How so?
Just all that that's happened, the threats, the people i've met with, the threats yeah, yeah and uh, the conversations i've had um, it's hard to keep up with it.
You know i'm trying.
I also have to live my life and work on my next film and it's like I spend.
I've been spending a lot of time just like taking in what's happening because I it's hard to um, it's hard to believe and you do have to vet everybody.
You know, you really do.
You have to be very careful what you uh believe and And who it's coming from and what they're, if there is an agenda, what is their agenda?
But yeah, it's just, and I know I'm not the only one going through this.
A lot of people are.
And I have to always remember, like I'm kind of on the edge of the curve, you know, edge of the cutting edge of it, essentially, because I demand to be there because it's affected me and affected a lot of people I love and know and everybody in the movie and everything I've done, too.
I have to realize the public is not quite there and they won't be there for a while.
And that's okay.
I have to be patient, which is why I would love to share a lot more.
It's just, I just don't think it's going to serve me or the whole disclosure.
I think we need to be talking about the craft.
And I can't believe we even got into the back in engineering recovery program.
That was a shock.
Like I thought that would come way down the line.
But no, it was like the first thing.
Oh man, that was a shock.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, how do you feel about it?
Like even hearing what I'm saying, is it really, does it, does it set your meters off?
I'm still kind of like absorbing the whole, the, the, I'm kind of on the fence about the, the nuts and bolts part of it, like with the things that the Navy pilots are seeing.
I, I think that's.
I tend to think that stuff is probably ours, like stuff that the military has control of.
Because why else would it be in a Navy pilot, like a training area for Navy pilots, right?
Like it would make sense that if these guys had just upgraded the radar in their planes, we might want to test some like black military projects on them and see like how it works against our top Navy fire pilots, right?
And I know that, you know, I've read.
Military Control Over Aerospace00:10:18
I've read about and I've read the history on like agencies like DARPA and like some of the black projects that they've been working on forever.
And, you know, obviously all of this disclosure stuff has to do with it revolves around these aerospace companies that are trying to keep secrets, right?
They're protected.
You can't FOIA them because they're private companies.
And I think that's what David Grush was basically blowing the whistle about.
Like his job was to keep track of money, right?
And he was seeing that all this money was going unaccounted for to these companies and like all these budgets were going to them and they couldn't, they didn't have to disclose anything that they were working on.
And I think it was Lockheed Martin and Northrop.
Northrop.
Yeah, yeah.
In Ohio, right?
So, you know, obviously these companies have huge secrets and they're spending tons of money on stuff.
You know, it's very, it makes sense that they've probably figured out anti gravity and they probably have developed something.
If I was to bet, right, if I had to make a bet on whether an American aerospace company figured out crafts that, The way Graves and Fravor describe them, I would bet that we have figured that out.
Not to say that, you know, this phenomena, I think this abduction phenomena is a whole separate thing.
And I'm still trying to wrap my head around it because it's just so.
It's.
A, there's no evidence for it.
B, it is just like it blows your perception of the universe out of the water that this kind of stuff could actually be happening, that we are.
Fish in a fish tank that are being, you know, reeled up out of the water and poked and prodded and then put back into the water, like, you know, pulled out of the literal time stream and being like looked at and experimented on by something that we don't know what the fuck it is.
That is just like, that's really hard to grasp.
Like, I've been thinking about it for a long time now and it's still.
It's still something that I think would really break a lot of people if it became something that was accepted by the government and people, this is what it is.
If they let this out to the public, I think it would really break a lot of people.
I agree.
That's why it's going to be carefully done.
But yeah, I have no question.
I mentioned it.
I had a lot of conversations lately.
I mentioned it to somebody recently.
When I was in South Africa, in Zimbabwe, particularly South Africa, I went to the Air Force Base, a couple of them, to say, hey, can I get in and speak with you?
And amazingly, I thought they would just stop me at the door.
I told them what I was doing, a documentary on this issue.
And the commander said, yeah, come on in.
He invited me into this Air Force Base, the main building.
And he was a commander.
He brought a lieutenant colonel with him, female, blonde, hair.
And, you know, I asked him, do you guys see this stuff?
What do you guys, do you know about this?
And I'm like, oh, yeah.
They were just very matter of fact about it.
And I've also found this in South America, another military I was speaking with.
And he said to me, he said, you know, we can tell on radar the difference between the American version, the Russian version, and the real thing.
What?
Yeah.
That's exactly what I said.
I was like, what are you talking about?
I had never heard that before.
Oh, my God.
Yeah.
And the lieutenant colonel is right there.
And I'm looking at her.
I'm like, are these people bullshitting me?
Because I didn't know.
And I'm like, oh, no, this is there, really?
For real?
So I was there for probably 20 minutes and they were sharing this stuff with me.
But what it turned they had no idea who you were.
Well, I had been on the radio over there trying to bring out the aerial witnesses and other witnesses in Africa.
Because when I was doing aerial, I was also interviewing tons of other witnesses from other events as well.
So I think they may have known they had heard I was in town.
It's not a very you know, if you're in the media in Africa, people know.
Okay.
You know, so, yeah, that kind of, well, it makes me think about what you're talking about.
That do we?
Probably.
We have great engineers.
We've been doing a lot of Townsend Brown, you know, electrogravitic work for quite a long time.
So it wouldn't surprise me if we have operational vehicles.
And according to certain people I've talked to, like him, and, Apparently we do.
But here's the question, like on this whole phenomenon, this stuff's been flying around for a long time.
Since at least World War II that we've been seeing it.
And it's no different than what we're seeing today.
It's the same behavior, same everything.
So that tells you it's likely not us that did this, unless there was some breakaway civilization that somehow managed to engineer and keep it. completely separate from everybody else back before World War I, World War II, you know.
Right.
That's hard.
That's a little more hard for me to believe.
But in this is this phenomena has been reported all the way back to the early stages of humanity in one way or another.
Right.
I want to go back to those guys that were showing up at your house.
How do you know whether or not they were like working for the United States government versus working for a private aerospace company?
Because when Chris mentioned the same thing that he dealt with, he alluded to the fact that they were private.
Yeah, like these men in black everyone talk about.
You know these mysterious men in black?
Yeah, they're military guys and that have a great engineering background.
They have great engineers.
Well, they build toys to scare people.
What a cool job.
It's like they work at the halloween shop.
Um, that's their job, and I would love to have that job actually, but it's not some fun when you're at the other end of it.
No, I knew they were military.
There was no question about that or former military.
And when I started to, you know, call around everywhere and, you know, through channels, friends, you know, attorneys, stuff like that, I started to, I had people look at the images of these people and they started to identify, you know, what likely, who they were and where they were from.
So, yeah, likely contractors.
That's pretty much everybody feels that way.
They're military contractors, military contractors working for private private industry.
Private industry, private private aerospace.
Yeah, private aerospace industries.
That's crazy.
I know that's on insane, correct.
I mean I have nothing against those people.
Yeah okay, I didn't do anything.
I mean, what did I do that where I just.
So let me just connect the dots here for people.
A private aerospace company in the United States is overtly threatening a private citizen who's having private conversations about aliens.
Correct.
I'm not the only one.
Do with that what you will.
Yeah.
I'm not the only one by far.
It's actually pretty stunning that they're coming to me.
I can understand why they're coming to Lou and Gary and all those other people.
I get that.
But why are they coming to some, you know, why are they coming to me?
But it seems like those guys are working with them.
Maybe.
Especially Lou.
Like he seems like, I don't, I mean, I've watched a couple of his interviews recently and it seems like he is like on the team.
You know?
Yeah, I suspect that too.
You know, when one of these conversations recently, you know, I'm like, why are they doing this?
And somebody I respect a lot said to me, well, you're a loose cannon.
They consider you a loose cannon.
They can't control you.
You know, you're independent.
And that kind of rang true to me, you know, that I can understand like that there's nobody that's got their hands in my life to be able to shift me in a different direction.
Even though I've been very good not to cross lines, you know, but I still think that's likely, you know, they don't have control of me and the word if I say something that may not.
I mean, I may have said it in this interview.
I hope not.
I hope not.
I'm trying not to.
I'm not adversarial.
That's not the intent.
And there was another incident.
Can you talk about the film premiere?
Yeah.
So what happened?
I was just debating whether I should.
I mean, I don't want to get anybody in trouble.
Metallic Ring And Strange Lights00:13:00
It was just very strange.
There were a couple people that showed up.
My assistant said, hey, the military's here.
I'm like, really?
And, um, how did they dress up in like military fatigues or something?
No, how would you determine someone's military?
Uh, but it's the train, it's kind of the training and the physique and the type of training you go through.
That's part of it.
t-shirts or authentic ones.
Oh, like skin tight beige t-shirts tucked into a cargo pants.
Well, yeah.
Well, you know, there's, there's, you can buy a Space Force t-shirt or, you know, right.
But the real ones, which are very difficult to get, are very different.
You know, they're very, oh, so they had like logos, Space Force logos on their t-shirts.
They're authentic.
You know, you can tell the difference.
Yeah.
You can tell the difference.
But I didn't notice it.
And, um, Anyway, it was a very interesting experience.
People that were with me kind of witnessed, saw it all go down.
Yeah.
I don't really, I don't know what else to say.
I don't want to get too.
There's a lot of interest in anybody talking about this right now.
Yeah.
And, you know, especially if you're grounded with it, you know, if you're talking woo-woo stuff and whatever, they don't care.
It's the people that are.
Do you still have any personal experiences with this phenomenon today?
Yeah.
How so?
I witnessed it in 2019, this massive craft come over my house.
And I witnessed it.
I mean, I'm still thinking about that.
That was in 2019.
And I got a really, really good look at it.
I was afraid, like for my life, at a certain point, when it it uh made a maneuver that was very, very violent in a sense um, and I'd never seen anything like that, that big and I wasn't the only one who saw it, there was a farmer near me, I'm sure other people saw it as well.
How big would you say?
Oh man, it had to be a hundred feet anyway.
You know, round circular yeah yeah, but you know it wasn't what you'd think.
You know, as far as, like tapered down platform, the platforms on this thing were like they went out like this, like fat right, fat long, two stories anyway, no windows, and it had a um, I can only see the left hand part of the, this dome right.
It went out up like this, I could see the other side, but I couldn't see that.
I just saw the curve, which is absolutely beautiful.
That curve was um um yeah, I think about that all the time now, did it have a sound?
No, that's what was the most disturbing part about it, was no sound, there was nothing.
So in aviation right, or in flying aviation, you there's it's called air displacement, So like when a balloon's going through the air or anything with mass, the more mass you have now I'm okay.
Thanks the more mass you have volume The more air you can hear the air being displaced this did this thing was huge and it had no air displacement.
There was not a sound nighttime 10 22 at night p.m. I was outside on the roof of my garage.
And, um, any direct contact with beings though?
No, nothing.
No, no, this thing, um, it was almost like it was interesting because I had just finished the rough cut of the movie.
It's like two weeks before.
Do you think that maybe like what they do to you when they abduct you, when they, like what Gary's talking about with, affecting the brain, a part of the brain by making neurons more dense.
Do you think they're doing something to the brains of these people, yourself included, to where it opens up a perception?
It opens up a gateway in the mind to where you can perceive this stuff now.
Yeah, but normal people maybe can't see.
Yeah, but there was a farmer who also saw it.
Oh, really?
Oh, wow.
Okay.
So there were other witnesses, too.
Oh, shit.
Yeah, I made a big deal.
I went to three police stations, two local police stations and the state police.
Then I got my plane.
Your plane?
Yeah, I flew down to Westover Air Force Base to talk to the intelligence officer there.
And he was supposed to be there.
He didn't show up.
And then I talked to him on the phone later.
I'm like hey, you guys got a serious security issue here, because i'm 20 miles north of you and you should know what this is like, what this is, and he, you know he's like you mean the drone.
I'm like, oh man yeah, this is no drone, bro.
Like this thing is 10 miles ahead of anything we have.
I mean, it was, it was just stunning.
I mean that's.
It was oddly, when I saw it and you know, you go through the list of things like okay, is this a drone?
Is this a Chinese lantern?
Is this an aircraft?
Right.
You go through the whole list.
I do.
I'm very like, I don't, I don't, I'm not easily deceived because I grew up with a mechanical background, aviation background.
Like you don't jump to conclusions.
And then when this thing got closer, I'm like, oh my God.
And then, and it was also absolutely beautiful.
It was absolutely beautiful.
And there was something peaceful about it actually in the experience.
And then what color was it?
Orange.
Like a deep sunset orange yeah, glowing or no.
Well yeah, it looked like a plasma right, it looked like a plasma.
And then, when it crossed in front of the tree, in front of me, the whole thing, the whole no no no okay no, it was like a light, you know.
And then, as it approached me, it crossed in front of the tree, in front of me.
That was 45 feet away, the tree was, and it was behind.
It, crossed behind this tree.
So you can actually do the math, considering where I did all this stuff already, you can do the math from the position it was viewed from.
And then it, it, the tree, part of the tree blocked out the orange light.
And then I could see the rest of it, which is like when you see a light going floating around and then it gets blocked out and you see this massive thing that is not making any sound whatsoever.
And it's, and it's, um, the craft itself, it had rings, right?
Like there was a metallic ring.
Um, that's the first thing that caught my eye running through the center of it.
All around the circumference I could.
I can only see that and it had like a heat.
You know, when you heat a metal there's a rainbow effect, like a purplish like sort of rainbow effect that happens.
It's kind of like tinsel yeah, this sort of flashiness.
That's what caught my eye initially, after the light got blocked and then I saw.
So it was like a very metallic, not silver, it was a darker kind of gray color.
Was it glowing like like, like Chris Blood Cell describes the orbs, like the entire thing glows, or was it like a, like a, an engine source?
Oh no no, It's like it looks like an orb, right?
Or whatever people refer to it as an orb.
So, the that orange light, which looks like a ball of orange with like a red tinge to it, and it looks like plasma.
It's like a light that doesn't, it's just, it's very strange.
I mean, I didn't, as soon as I saw it, I did not take, I didn't think I blinked for 45 seconds because I was not going to take my eyes off that thing.
And I started to go through the routine of what is this, try to identify.
And then when it got blocked by the tree, and then I saw the rest of it.
Which is enormous.
I started to get scared, of course.
But the rest of it was lit by like a white light, you know, that there was no source, you know.
And so you had this ring in the middle that had that rainbow effect on it.
There was a black ring above it and below it.
And then below was silver and above was silver.
And then the dome was also silver on top.
There was no windows.
I mean, it was the most beautiful thing I've ever seen technologically.
Any kind of crazy movements it made?
Yeah.
It, you know.
Dude, this is what is really kind of stunning to me just because I'm I have an engineering background and I build things and you know I love flying.
I just I'm an engineer at heart and uh, dude, this thing wobbled, wobbled, huh?
It was not stable, like how like use this Zen can and show me how how it wobbled, like this, like kind of like it was slight, just slowly side to side, like an off balance gyroscope.
I guess so, but it was slower than that, you know?
That was, I just couldn't even make sense of that myself for such a technological object like that to wobble.
Actually, I think about it.
Obviously, if I built it, it would not wobble.
You know what I mean?
I want to make sure it looked really sleek.
They don't seem to care about that.
Interesting.
So when it broke out of the trees, I knew I was going to get another clear look at it again.
And that's when it did this sort of violent move, like counterclockwise rotated very quickly.
That's when I got really.
Like I, I got, I put my hands down on the ground, this is it, and yeah, and then then I was looking at another sort of perspective of it, where there was a platform on the back, that that it sort of hung underneath it, and there was a white thing under there that looked like a tank, pro tip, propane tank or something, and it made me think because I, I didn't know about the tic-tac at this point like a propane tank yeah,
like a white tank with no seams on it.
It looked you know, my first, The first way I described it was like a casket, you know, and then, and then underneath that was another platform that was just hanging there, you know, like there was no attachment to the right object.
And on that platform, there was like a When I first saw it, it was it's like a white box curved edges look super advanced, you know, and it had a little pole on it with a red light and in my mind, I'm like, that's a power supply because I worked as an electrician for a long time in commercial Interesting.
But it wasn't anything that I've seen us make at all.
And then that orange light, which was not on me anymore, had gone around the ring of it and got toward the back of it very close to where I was as it was right here.
And then it got big and just went, whoa.
I stood up there for 20 minutes just with my jaw dropped.
I felt like a Neanderthal, man.
Like, honest to God, they are so far ahead of us.
Yeah.
And it was you and another farmer who saw this.
Oh, I'm sure a bunch of people saw it.
The farmer.
How far away was he?
He was probably two miles away.
I was probably a couple hundred yards when I first, probably three or four hundred yards when I first saw it.
And then it kind of, I'm living here, I'm on the roof of the garage, and it's coming this way.
And then, so it's approaching me the whole time.
And when it departed, it was about right here.
So when it departed, I'd say 150.
Here's the weird thing.
That thing, there was no sound even in that.
I saw it go.
It disappeared into the stars.
And I have no idea the speed, but I would imagine within a second it was over Boston, which is the direction where it went.
I'm not kidding.
That's crazy, man.
But there was no magnetic field.
There was no, I didn't feel any impact.
There was no pressure wave of any, nothing.
Like I don't quite understand the physics involved in what I witnessed.
And that there was zero sound through the whole thing.
And it wasn't some kind of projection or what do you call it?
No hologram.
It's not a hologram.
So the farmer, he was about two or three miles away from me.
And he saw it from his angle, and I know where he was.
Physics Defying Star Departure00:05:32
And so I went to talk to him.
He got all nervous and said, I don't want to talk about it.
Really?
That's what happens because it's not open.
People are nervous about, oh, what are their neighbors going to think?
They're afraid of what the government may do.
Shut them down.
It's not a great atmosphere for openness.
Do you think?
But that's the last time I saw.
Do you suspect you're going to get any sort of backlash from talking about these experiences on a podcast?
Oh, definitely.
Have you ever talked about these things, like these guys showing up at your house publicly on podcasts?
No, I've been talking to a lot of people at different media organizations and newspapers and things like that.
But this is the first time I'm talking, and I have to.
I really feel like I've had to come forward a bit.
I didn't want to.
I wanted to get finished with Ariel and move on to my next project, which is what I'm doing.
But I have to address this because I'm worried about my family very straightly.
Somebody really needs to look at what's already happened to my family.
I'd appreciate that.
What's happened to your family?
There's just a lot of things that have happened over the last five years that are questionable for sure.
I'm in Congress really, and I've been trying to.
You're what?
Congress really needs to, you know, to put some kind of protective orders on people because there's obviously a reason it's happening.
It's definitely happening to other people besides myself, no question about it.
And if it's happening to me, I can't imagine who else it's happening to that I know.
It's something that just needs to stop.
It's not serving, even if it's serving a, it's not the, so it's it's pretty much bullying.
You know right, they want you to keep quiet and they're doing it in this way, but that's actually creating a problem in its own right.
Um it, it just could be better.
There's better ways to do things than that, because they're creating more problems in the process.
And um, I don't know, you get very.
I mean, i've just been very concerned.
There's no question about that.
I wouldn't be talking about.
There's nothing.
This is not going to help me.
It's not going to help me to talk about this at all.
And I already have.
And I'm worried now.
Oh my God, what's going to be the repercussions?
But you're put in a position like, do I say something or do I not say something?
I have to because it's not even about me at this point.
It's about people I love and my family.
Right.
Period.
It seems like these intimidation tactics, it's almost like part of them is to scare you away from talking about it to anyone.
Correct.
And you're sort of going against that grain by talking about it publicly, which I would imagine would protect you and get this sort of thing on the public record.
Yes.
In case it does happen again, it's publicly documented.
Yeah.
Yep.
I appreciate that.
And yeah, I've been talking with a bunch of other podcasters about this and there's probably other shows I'll probably go on and discuss it on.
And, you know, people want to see the videos and all that stuff.
It's like, or the photographs haven't gotten fine, but my attorney, that's in the hands of attorneys.
Do you have any photographs or videos of this craft that you were just talking about?
Why wouldn't you be able to talk about that?
I just don't want the.
People wanting to see it at this point.
Just the fact your response is basically saying yes.
But, you know, it's not something I'm going to put out.
Right.
So this.
It's wide angle.
So this stuff.
It's not ideal.
It doesn't.
But it doesn't matter to me.
It doesn't cloak itself from like photographic equipment.
It did not.
Wow.
Yeah, that was a shock for me too, actually.
Yeah.
But the great part of it for me was it didn't matter.
I was there.
If I was in a, if I witnessed this kind of stuff on a regular basis or I had a history, like, what would you do?
Like yours or like Whitley Strieber's, I would have cameras on myself at night when I'm sleeping in my bedroom.
Correct.
You put them everywhere.
Yep.
Do you think they can elude those cameras?
If they really want you, they can do it.
There's no doubt about that.
And they just control everything electronically.
Anything electronic, or even if you have, so you know, you go to the extent of having separate power supplies, isolated power supplies.
Right, right.
So they can't shut the, yeah, right.
So if they shut the 110 down or the 220 down, you still got 12 volts, 48 volts, you got 5 volts running, you got solar running.
They can still do all of it.
That's incredible.
That is incredible.
That's the control of the atom.
I mean, you know, the control of very subtle, subtle, uh, levels of electricity.
And what year was it when you went on Oprah 94, 94 and you were on there with Dr Mack?
Group Therapy For Trauma Survivors00:15:12
Yep, and my members of my family also.
Yeah, was that the first time you were publicly talking about this stuff, or was it?
Were you talking about it before that?
It was 1992 um and, and you know, I didn't want to be public, I I was asked by John Mack to to do that show in 94 and on Oprah and um, I didn't want to do it.
I actually, it took two weeks.
He kept calling me and, um, and I finally, cause he said, you know, Randy, you're going to reach, uh, six million people.
That's what convinced me.
I'm like, okay.
But when I first went public was I'd, you know, been meeting quite a few people this has happened to who were very prominent people, some famous people that were in some of these, um, groups, what do you call it?
Group therapy, basically, of people who had encountered this stuff.
And if those people had gone public, many doctors, lawyers, business owners, like very prominent people, they could have made a difference, but they were all terrified to speak about it, fearing their reputation.
And at that time, they were looking for people to go public.
And I'm like, God damn it, I'll do it.
I'll do it.
I didn't do it for myself.
It didn't help me at all.
Still hasn't.
None of this is helpful.
You know, you don't do it for that.
If you do it for that, you're going to be found out damn quick what you're doing it for.
But I felt and I have always felt that I want to help that person who's experiencing these things not feel so alone.
For what it's worth, man, last time you were here, you seemed stressed, distraught.
You seemed like you were not getting a lot of sleep.
Today, you look like you're with it.
You look healthy.
You look fit.
You look great, man.
And you seem to be in way better spirits than you were last time.
Really?
Oh man, I got to watch that show next time.
It may not have come through on camera, but just like talking to you, you know, I can really tell a difference.
Really?
Yeah.
Oh, thank you.
I don't see it that way, but that's a good sign.
I'm looking for the good signs.
Yeah, no.
I'm just trying to, I guess all this stuff just, you know, when all this crazy stuff happens to you, you kind of have to really get in touch with who you are as a person.
And, you know, Try to try to make make the best of a very strange and and stressful situation.
It's it's uh, it's funny you say that because before I Last time I felt like I wasn't I sure wasn't going through this, you know mm-hmm But I think the the biggest part of my drive is to You seem stronger now whatever that is for whatever that I don't know what the what you're dealing with personally, but you seem like you're Trial by fire, man.
It's called Semperfy.
What doesn't kill you make you stronger, right?
Oh my God.
You know how they hammer that steel.
Yeah.
So you mentioned also that you were upset with John Mack for some stuff, for publishing what he published.
Or did you ever have any conversations with him about that?
And why were you, what was going on there?
Oh no, we just had some disagreements.
You know, it's not around, I mean, God, he, that man, really risked his everything to come out to say, hey, in my clinical experience, these people are telling the truth.
I mean, he risked his entire career.
And I think everyone actually owes him a lot of gratitude for taking the risk about something that was beyond himself.
And Danny Sheehan is the one who represented him.
Yeah, that's how I met Danny.
I've known Danny for 30 years, something like that.
He's a character.
He's amazing.
And he's brilliant.
Such a smart guy.
He's super smart.
And John was like that too.
Really?
Off the charts type of genius.
And yeah, you realized it when you were with him, you know, we're having conversations with him.
You're like, woof, this guy has just an incredible breadth of knowledge and wisdom.
But we didn't always agree and that's fine.
And so I expressed myself and he'd express himself.
Like what wouldn't you agree on?
Well, he was running through a bunch of theories and, you know, what the, trying to grasp what this was about.
Yeah.
And to interviewed how many, do you know how many people he interviewed or did these regressions with?
Well, see, I didn't, I got to tell you something.
I did not, I didn't do that.
This didn't come out of regressions for me, which is why I was unique in that sense at that time was, I mean, I wasn't unique.
There was others like me.
But all the regressions did to me was send me back into the trauma.
So there wasn't very much information gathered from that at all.
And people have to be very careful with regressive therapy because yeah, Whitley said that that was pretty traumatizing.
Yeah, I didn't get anything because I was, and it's taken my own work, you know, over decades.
So it was just a straight up interview with you, just basically talking.
Oh, no, we tried.
He tried to regress.
He tried to regress.
He tried to regress me.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
It didn't work out so well.
It just, it put me right back into the trauma, which that that was difficult because I didn't need to go back there, right?
Um, I was curious enough to want to know more, like what okay, I know a lot of stuff happened that I don't remember.
I'd like to remember it, but that's not that.
That didn't work at all, so what I had to do was just to go to therapy for a long periods of time with him.
No okay, oh no, I actually decided to work with people that had nothing to do with or any knowledge of this phenomenon, because I didn't want any.
I didn't.
You know, There was a reason I did that.
And yeah, it took a long time to work through.
So he talked to or interviewed, was it hundreds?
Was it over a thousand people, do you think?
What would you estimate?
I think initially there was a small group.
And then by the time he did the 1994 book, I think there was a hundred of us.
And then he, I think, I'm not quite sure.
I know who would know that.
But I would imagine he probably did a few hundred more after that.
I don't know.
If he's doing in-depth work, it takes quite a long time.
And what kind of theories did he have that you disagreed with?
Well, at the time, and this is still present, there are people that think this is for the good.
And this is, you know, there are people that think this is, well, benign or malignant, right?
Is that the right way to say it?
Yeah.
Evil and good?
Right.
Basically evil and good.
And so he would be going that way.
And I'd be.
It's been going on for a long time.
It's like I it's not even about any of that.
I mean that's our human construct in a sense, that right has to be this way or another.
And I just always, and I still, feel that way.
Once you get into good and evil and classifying it, you're missing a lot, because that there's a lot of in between that you don't want to miss.
It's almost like I get the feeling that they're doing something that is bigger than all of us.
It's bigger than any, like you say, bigger than any individual.
They're doing something that is something.
It's so big and so important that we can't grasp it.
I agree.
I agree.
You get little pieces of it, and I agree with that.
I think it's beyond a lot of our comprehension.
I really do.
And there's this big gap that we're trying to bridge, you know, to understand them and conceive.
But hey, you know, I've only seen a very small part of this population, you know, whoever these things are.
I've seen what, a science team?
Multiple times, and you always saw the same exact beings, you never saw like human beings or like no.
And they were the same crew, it was the same exact crew.
That's the way how do you know that you can feel it, really?
Yeah, you feel it.
Yep, yep.
Do you get the feeling that they were biological, or did you get the feeling that they were they were like created?
No, they were not machines, they were not machines.
If they were machines, they were biological machines, but they're right.
Could they have been like biologically created in a lab or something?
Maybe, but they're very real and very sentient.
And anyway, they're, there's, and they come in four every single time.
It's four.
Yep.
There's something about the number four, man.
That's what, um, that's who said that.
You know who said that?
Well, I believe that, um, Cleland, Michael Cleland said that as well.
The owl and UFO guy.
You know him?
I don't.
Oh, okay.
I thought you knew him.
I mean, it's every single time, four of them.
Jeez.
Um, no, no reproductive organs.
Nope.
Never saw anything like that.
Really bizarre.
Really bizarre.
And you said you experienced the same smell that Whitley experienced?
Yeah.
I described it as burnt lint.
Burnt lint.
Yeah.
He described it as like burning cardboard.
That's so fascinating.
So when I was 11 years old, when I was like a teenager when I described that, I think I was 11 years old.
And you experience it.
You describe something in that chapter of abductions the same way Whitley describes it, as he says, that when he was, you said you weren't regressed, but he said when he was regressed, he was like jumping timelines in his regressions to back when he was like from like 15 to 10.
I think the earliest he went was 10 years old.
And you said you went from like a 10 year old memory back to a three year old memory.
Correct.
Oh, so yeah.
I mean, I did do regression, but it wasn't very, I had a, it just brought me into the trauma.
So I did remember some things, but I tend not to put a lot as much stock as I do with what I saw with my own eyes and felt with my own body.
Right, but though I don't take that away from anyone that I think, though and I did say that right that it brought me back to three, which was 1970 1971, which is when I think it.
That's when it began.
You think it began around there.
I do, I mean, I know that we've i've just at least with you right, we've discussed it in my family, so there were some events that occurred.
Um yeah, I just, I brought it up, You know, I had to, when you see stuff like this initially and you don't know what it is.
And Whitley said, it took me 20 years to believe it myself.
And Whitley said it was happening to other people in his family as well.
Like he would experience his other family members like on these crafts or like he would see them there.
I can't, yeah.
That's, yeah.
He said that.
Yeah.
And communion.
I haven't read it.
So I stay away from the books because I don't need to read them.
And I don't, when I do read them, I just get more traumatized.
You know, I'm not learning any.
It does, yeah, just it reminds me of things I have kind of isolated out of my memory.
They're still there.
I just keep them locked up.
Have you ever thought about like, are there out of all the abductee, public abductees or private abductees that you've talked to, do you suspect any sort of common commonality or any sort of pattern in the people that they choose, like the type of people, something about them.
They're all very intelligent.
That, like I went for a long time, I was curious, like, who are they?
Well, first of all, why me?
You know, and then also, who's out there?
Like, who else is this happening to?
What's the common denominator?
Yes.
That became a big curiosity for me.
Yes.
So, I mean, some of these people are off-the-chart geniuses, some of these abductees that I've met.
I mean, they can read an entire book that's 500 pages long.
And then two years later, they can quote you line by line out of that chapter if you're asking about, oh, yeah, that was page 56.
Photographic memories.
Photographic memories, correct.
And then, so I think it's a mix of range.
And I can't, I think there's multiple reasons, but I definitely noticed the brain part because I've met so many just crazy intelligent people.
Females and males, and and then there's another element that maybe they picked, I don't know, for genetic reasons or I don't know, but I I try to figure that out.
I've not come to a conclusion, but you definitely wonder what that's what it's about.
So hmm um, so what uh, what sort of projects are you working on right now?
I got three.
I'm i'm kind of I'd had to be careful, because one of these projects is on my story, which is on your personal story.
Correct, yeah.
Yeah, some people have finally figured or whatever.
They just realize it needs to be told, so that's great.
But that's why I'm sort of under an NDA for that.
And then I have my next film project, which I can't say anything about because unfortunately people no, I know.
It isn't.
But in the documentary world, you have to be very careful.
Because somebody will just jump in and take your idea, unfortunately.
Happened to me.
So, unfortunately.
So these projects are about your personal experiences mainly?
Consistent Spacecraft Dialogues00:10:47
No.
Oh, no.
I want to talk about other people's.
I want to tell other people's stories.
I made that decision a long time ago.
I really didn't want to talk about my own story.
Right.
It's too difficult.
And I'd rather tell other people's stories who don't have a voice.
Yeah.
So, but yeah.
Yeah.
So moving forward and under extraordinary circumstances.
Right.
Yeah.
In the beginning of this conversation, you were saying that you are aware of abductions still happening today.
Yeah.
Do you think any of those things change?
Do you think any of the abductions that are happening today are anything similar to what the stuff that you were experiencing was?
Like with extracting.
Bodily fluids from people and and like the same sort of like reproduction experiments.
Yeah, very similar.
Who's?
Yeah, who is putting out?
Who is putting out that dialogue that this is?
No, nobody's putting out the dialogue.
That's the thing right, nobody's putting out anything about something.
That's anything new.
That's happened, at least maybe that's.
Maybe that's the way they want to portray it, so people will adjust to it and not realize that.
There's this other aspect, maybe I just haven't seen anything anywhere or heard anything anywhere of anyone new talking about this stuff happening, And I don't know if that's just because that, I don't know if the reason we only hear about stuff that happened 20 years ago is because that's like naturally, how long it takes somebody to be comfortable to talk about this stuff, or if people are just choosing not to talk about it, or if it's being suppressed or what, whatever.
Yeah, I think all those are true.
Yeah.
Because it's really hard to come to terms with it.
And for sure, it can take 20 years.
Yeah, it sure isn't easy.
Yeah, but I would, if you want to answer that, there's investigators you should speak with who are seeing people and getting the reports.
What kind of investigators?
Through MUFON, I believe has their own department for abductions, you know, for people to contact them.
I think also a lot of people saw what happened to the people I was around that whole time and how how abused we got by the media and ridiculed and oh my God, it was brutal.
And that maybe that has informed their decision not to be public about it.
But I've met quite a few that it's ongoing.
And if it has stopped, great.
But I just, I can't, I just don't believe that's the truth.
Is there a certain.
Like, geographical area that seems to happen more than others?
Do they stay away from big cities?
Do they only go to like open, no, open, it's everywhere, rural land?
I think big cities less so, but it's all over the planet.
I had a woman from Japan approach me at one of my screenings recently.
I mean, this is fascinating, and this is the most rewarding part for me personally people approach me at the here, the my screenings afterwards, and they, you know, say, They'll give me a note or they'll just tell me, like, thank you for validating my experience.
It's been happening since I was a child.
That's the most beautiful thing.
And I always share it with my crew because, like, you know, people I worked with, like, hey, this is the kind of effect you have.
We've got stacks of letters and emails from people.
And yes, this woman from Japan recently approached me.
I'm like, oh, my God.
I mean, I knew it was everywhere.
I've met people from China, Japan, all over pretty much every single country at this point.
It's the same thing.
The same thing.
We think we don't have.
We have borders.
They, these things.
This operation doesn't have any.
They're covering the entire planet.
Are there any accounts or stories people have told you that just doesn't fit into anything you ever heard?
Or like, has there ever been something where someone came out, came to you and be like look, this is what happened to me?
And you were like whoa, this is, I've never heard of this before.
No, or like any new kind of beings that they describe that you've never heard of?
Or Well, yeah, maybe I've heard a few, but they're so, it's pretty consistent.
It is.
It's pretty consistent.
That's the other thing that gets, that's why people started researching it was the consistency amongst stories, even from people separated by oceans, you know, all across the world was the consistencies of many things, you know, not just the description of these creatures, but the procedures, the technology.
It's been, it's it's competitive.
It's all consistent.
So there's a strong body of work.
I think it's 90% the same.
And then there's 10% that are these outliers that, you know, people experiencing reptile-like creatures and this and that.
I don't know.
But 90% of them are these little four-footers.
Have you ever asked them or communicated with them, asked them who they were?
I don't think you have the chance to do that.
I don't know.
You just don't.
Because it seems like there were a lot of people who did ask them that, at least from some of the accounts.
In what position?
The accounts that I've read about in various books of abductees or people that have just ran into these things, like randomly in the middle of Colorado or Utah or somewhere.
Maybe not all abductees, but at least having face to face encounters with them where they would communicate with them telepathically.
I know there were a few of them.
In Mike Master's book, Extra Tempestial Model, he lays out at least, I think, like at least a half dozen accounts, documented accounts, where people asked them, like, where they were, who they were, where they were from.
You've never talked to anybody who had anything to say about that?
It's just limited.
You're limited.
I mean, it depends on the individual situation.
Because Whitley, even Whitley says he talked to the being.
Telepathically, and he asked, like, how old it was, and it told him it was ancient.
Right.
God, I got to talk to Willie.
It's been a while.
Oh, my God.
Yeah, that's funny.
No, you can.
It reminds me, like, people say, well, if you're on the spacecraft, like, why didn't you get this?
It's like, dude, you're not thinking about survival, period.
You know?
I mean, that's the kind of mixed in thing, unless you're under some kind of.
Their anesthetic, which is electrical in nature, by the way.
It's difficult to get those questions in because that's not what you're, hasn't been with me.
That's not been my primary.
Like, I would like to survive, you know?
Right.
And what about like the little, he talks about these like little, like grunty, Beefy looking creatures that were like the workhorses, the ones that would like carry you out of the house and like get you into the woods to get elevated up into the spacecraft.
Like there were two different ones, or three different ones.
He explained the human looking ones, the little four footers, and he explained these other like really little like ogre looking ones that he explained were like the workhorses that would be doing like the labor, the physical labor to like move people.
Oh, I don't think they needed that for me anyway, but uh.
Yeah, no, I don't remember them at all.
Okay.
Yeah.
Interesting.
Mm-hmm.
Well, Randy, thanks for coming on, man.
Yeah, man.
This has been fun.
I won't be able to sleep tonight.
You won't?
No.
Why?
Anytime I talk about this stuff, it just ripples for several days.
This is true.
When I read Whitley's book, I'm still kind of like, it's in the back of my mind, but it's living in the back of my mind, that book.
It really frightened me.
Yeah.
It is.
And that's just reading it.
Like that's not even an experience.
Like that's not, I can't imagine what it would be like to actually go through this shit.
Yeah.
I think that's what I'd love more people to understand is how, how impactful it is.
But there's, you know, there's a way through it.
I'm determined that there's a way through it.
It's just, it's, so it's not just, oh, it is scary, but we, you know, there's a way to go get over that somehow.
Yeah.
That a lot of us are trying to do.
So we can, because once we overcome that or get, you're never going to overcome it, adapt to it, then, then we can actually learn a lot.
The fear is the problem.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Thanks, man.
It was good to see you again.
Yeah.
It's been fun.
Where can people contact you?
Obviously, I'll link your documentary below.
Sure.
Is there anywhere else that we can direct people?
To get a hold of you or learn more about your work?
Yeah, Aerial Phenomenon.com we're starting a Patreon page for one of the projects we have, and uh yeah, just uh yeah, contact at Aerial Phenomenon.com.
And uh, you'll be, you'll be seeing more of what we're up to.
And um um yeah, I hope this was okay to share.
I just, I know it's a lot for people.
Yeah yeah well, I appreciate you doing it, man.
And uh I, I hope Pretty soon, I won't have to be so careful.
You know, we will have moved on to, we'll have moved on past the discussion about what it is.