Matt Beall presents his collection of 30 ancient Egyptian hardstone vases, arguing their microscopic tolerances and "royal qubit" dimensions prove lost machining technology. While experts dismiss them as fakes due to pre-dynastic tool limitations, CT scans reveal lathe-turned surfaces inconsistent with modern or traditional methods. The discussion touches on controversial provenance involving Moshe Dayan and links artifacts to sacred geometry before pivoting to Beall's retail empire, Bell's, which aids FEMA recipients and plans 70 new stores. Ultimately, the episode challenges mainstream archaeology by suggesting advanced ancient capabilities while promoting broader conspiracy theories regarding lost civilizations and UFO disclosure. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, WAV2VEC2_ASR_BASE_960H, sat-12l-sm, script v26.04.01, and large-v3-turbo
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Ancient Egyptian Artifact Value00:14:15
All right, Matt Bell.
How much money worth of ancient Egyptian artifacts is sitting on this podcast table right now?
Starting with an easy question.
I have no idea.
I mean, it's worth whatever you'd be willing to sell it for, right?
So, you know, I don't know.
They've definitely increased in value since I started buying them.
I'll put it that way.
So, I mean, I started back in January 2023 and kind of went through like a crazy person through, you know, like crazy buying spree all through 2023 and then kind of settled down.
But in that time, the prices went.
Way up.
You know, I mean, they're triple, they're sometimes quadruple what they would have been a year and a half ago now.
So, right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, there's, you know, it's some of them like I wouldn't sell, you know, like some of them like this guy right here, you know, you know, this one with the gold handles, like you just, there's not a price that you could even, you know, say.
I know the value is a big question for people, but it's just, you know, it's kind of like anything like what would somebody pay for it, you know?
For people that are watching this podcast or listening, especially people who are listening right now, this is going to be a, Very visual podcast.
We have what, like 30 ancient Egyptian vases sitting on this table right now that Matt has purchased on the antiquities market.
And we're going to be going through all this stuff and showing this.
We got close up shots.
Steve's got the cameras all dialed in, getting the glamour shots of these vases.
What is the process of buying one of these things?
Yeah, it's kind of, I mean, it's different.
There's a couple of different ways.
I started when Ben Van Kerkwick released his first couple of videos on it.
You know, I was totally hooked when Uncharted X came out with their.
Their take on these things.
I was like, you know, this is, it seemed like the best evidence for something really cool happening out there in the world right now.
And there's not a lot that's really cool happening.
So, and how else can you, like, you know, get a piece of that, you know, in other ways other than this?
So that's kind of where I got hooked onto it.
Where I got started was from watching Ben.
And then I had him come onto my podcast, you know, last year.
And we talked about these things.
He would have never come and talked to me, I'm sure, if it wasn't for, yeah.
For the bases, but we formed a great friendship.
He's a great dude.
I'm sure I'll give a handful of shout outs to Bender in this thing.
But yeah, I mean, you can do it through auction houses, you know, or websites, basically.
So, you know, if you go on to like on your phone, you can download an app, liveauctioneers.com.
And that's a good one.
Like, that's like they have a bunch on there Christie's, Sotheby's, Bonham's, Placus.
You know, there's a lot of auction houses that sell these things.
These tiny ones are, when you showed me this last night, I was, my mind was melting.
Yeah.
Because not only are these things like hard granite, the most hard stone that exists on the earth, but these things are precise and they're like smaller than a shot glass.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And they get smaller than that too.
I mean, yeah, there's some crazy, I don't know.
Yeah.
How they did it, it's a huge mystery.
But yeah, all different shapes of stone.
Why did they do it?
Why did they make them so small?
Right.
Right.
Yeah, and they're really, you know, you get some really precise ones at that size too, you know?
So it's, that's the difference.
But I mean, there's like this classification that's super precise, like crazy precise.
And then there's a classification that looks like, you know, it's just done with, it's incredible work, but just done with less, whatever you might call it.
Yeah.
It's incredible tools.
You wouldn't think about something as like a vase being such a mysterious relic.
When you compare it to the Great Pyramid, because it's just as crazy of a feat of a human being to produce something like this as the Great Pyramids, because it's so precise and it's made out of these stones, out of these hard grain of stones.
Yeah, totally agree.
Yeah, I mean, when you look at the pyramids, you look at the serapium, those huge boxes that are down there.
Like you look at the vases.
We don't have the tools for any of that stuff.
Like we don't know how that stuff was built.
We don't know how they built the pyramids.
I mean, there's a couple of theories with like ramps and Sand, you know, like pulleys and ropes.
And, you know, there's some theories for this stuff.
There's some, but we don't have the tools from the pre dynastic time to really know how these were built.
So, yeah, it's a huge mystery, man.
There's not that many mysteries left.
So, this is a cool one.
It's really cool.
How many of these vases have you guys actually measured in one of those laser scanners or those, what are they, CT scans?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
There's two different ways that you can do it.
So, there's a structured light scan, which is like, you know, you put it onto a, you put it onto like, you know, a Flat, a flat surface, you spin it around, you've got like a something shining a laser at it, a light at it, and it picks up the dimensions basically by turning it.
And so you get like a full picture of it and it creates a mesh file.
That's a little bit less precise than the CT scanner.
So, CT scanner is the way to go for sure if you're going to be measuring these things and attempt to like figure out the exact dimensions.
And there's a great company that I've been using called EMS and they've got a CT scanner.
I ship them up to Michigan and they scan them there and then ship them back.
It's like a, you know, They do it in a day.
They ship it back.
But they've got an incredible CT scanner.
And the benefit of the CT scanner is you get the inside walls.
So, yeah.
So you get like, you get all of the, you get the full thing with the structured light scan on the, you're just getting the outside.
But yeah, the CT scanner and it's at a higher resolution.
So you can really, you know, get down to like a thousandth of a millimeter on the measurements to know exactly how precise they are.
It's pretty crazy.
A thousandth of a millimeter.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's insane.
Which one of these vases is the most precise?
Um, You know, I mean, there's different measurements on all of them.
So there's only a few ways to measure each of these.
So take this one for example.
So this is one of them for sure.
You can measure the top outside of the lip, right?
So from here to here, you can measure the roundness of it.
But that's one measurement.
The inside of the mouth is another measurement.
The width, so like from here to here, here to here, the X axis, the Y axis.
So there's only like six measurements on each of these five if it has a round bottom, six if it doesn't.
And so, this one is one of those that on some of the measurements, it's showing like insanely precise numbers.
And so, this is one that I brought up to Danville and was with, you know, Chris Don and Ogston and Ben and all those guys.
And we were measuring this one.
So, this one's got some insane measurements to it.
This one, this thin wall face here that we don't want to drop.
This is the most fragile.
This is the most fragile.
Yeah, yeah, by far.
And there's not another one.
This is one of the coolest ones just because I've never seen another one like this anywhere.
Like, I mean, there's one.
In a museum that you can find pictures of online that has actually part of the side broken out of it.
And so you can see that it's about two millimeters thick.
This thing on a band that goes across the middle of this thing.
Do we have a flashlight?
Somewhere.
Oh, right there.
Yeah.
So this thing is two millimeters thick.
Steve, where's the best place to hold it?
Like right here, this area?
Is that good?
Yeah, that'll work.
Yeah.
I mean, it's pretty.
That's wild.
Pretty.
Pretty bright in here, but you can still see the light coming through this band.
Let's turn the lights off.
This band.
Let's make it spooky in here.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, there you go.
Look at that, dude.
Holy cow.
Isn't that insane?
Yeah, there you go.
Yeah.
I mean, and so what they did is they thinned out this part around the middle.
They made the part around the middle about two millimeters thick.
The rest of it is basically four millimeters thick on the bottom and on the top.
And then on the very bottom of it, they make it thicker so that it's stable and sturdy and it's not going to break.
So, what is this material?
That's granite.
That's red granite.
This is red granite.
Yeah, or rose granite, whatever you want to call it, Aswan granite.
Where does this land on the Mohs scale of hardness?
I mean, granite for the most part is going to be between a six and a seven.
So, sometimes seven and a half, it can, you know, but it's in that range.
It's one of the harder stones on Earth.
I mean, when you talk about granite, granodiorite, diorite, basalt, there's a lot of basalt here.
Those are going to be the hardest stones that these are made out of.
You bought all these, right?
And you decided to pay with your own money to get these scans done.
Correct.
To get these things measured.
Yeah.
Did you get any sort of help from any of these Egyptian museums or like the Petrie Museum or anybody like that?
No, no.
I mean, so in terms of what?
No, I haven't watched it yet.
In terms of like trying to analyze these vases and figure out what's going on?
I haven't tried yet.
I haven't tried to work with the museums yet.
So I'm kind of just doing my own thing with my private collection and I'm trying to study them and scan them.
And just, you know, I don't honestly, with work and with life and everything else, like I don't have the capacity to reach out to museums and try to do all that.
I know that by talking to people, by talking to people like Ralph Ellis, a bunch of people have tried to reach out to museums and get things scanned.
The answer has been no from the museums that have been reached out to.
And I know, like, Ralph has told me he's reached out to, like, 10 different people.
Adam Young, who's going to be presenting at the Cosmic Summit, has tried to reach out to people and supposedly he's making some progress.
Supposedly he's hopefully going to be able to do that.
He hasn't really let me know one way or the other.
But the issue is you have to take them out of the museums and then you have to ship them away to a CT scanner somewhere at some other location.
And a lot of museums just don't want to do that.
So far, museums have not wanted to play ball.
But ultimately, that's the goal, right?
I mean, we have to have things that have been.
With perfect archaeological context that have been taken out of a tomb, and we know that we can date that tomb to a specific period of time, and then that that thing's been pulled out so that there's no chance that it was, you know, some modern forgery or whatever.
So that's what, and that's the biggest pushback from the detractors or the debunkers or whatever you want to call the group of people that hate the fact that we're doing this research and that we're trying to see if there's anything here that they're saying, you know, well, there's no, it could be a fake.
It could be a modern fake.
So I think Who are the people that are saying that these things could be modern fakes?
I mean, it's a possibility, but I mean, I think that a lot of people within the, when they see the measurements, it's really the ones that are super precise and it's people within the archaeological community or the, or Egyptologists or historians, people who think that they have, that we have the exact right story of the history of mankind and that there's no, Tools that we don't know about outside of the archaeological record, you know,
and that everything that we know is perfectly true and complete facts right now.
Now, those people are the ones that have a difficult time with the artifacts that are very precise because there's no tools that can create this artifact in the archaeological record.
I mean, you've got, I think, well, we can check the scan report, but I think on this one, when you look at the lip on the X and Y axis, you've got like a thousandth of a millimeter.
I mean, it's stupid.
A thousandth of a millimeter.
Of a millimeter, yeah, yeah.
It's like one fiftieth of the width of a human hair.
Totally microscopic.
That's the distance on the x axis and the y axis.
The variation in between.
Okay.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So this from here to here is one distance, from here to here is another distance, and it's like a thousandth of a millimeter off.
So it's perfectly round, is what that tells you to within microscopic tolerances.
And supposedly, these were made with chisels, you know, that these were like rounded off with chisels.
There's not turning devices from, there's not a lathe, you know, from pre dynastic Egypt.
What?
Where these come from.
If you asked, Mainstream Egyptologists, when this would have been made, what would they say?
They would, I mean, for the museum pieces or for this piece specifically right here?
For any of these pieces.
Yeah.
I mean, they would say, you know, that if it's a real artifact, that if it's, you know, then they'll probably go along with the dates on the certificate of authenticity.
And, you know, so they'll tell you it was from between 4000 BC and 2650 BC, you know, in that time period.
Okay.
If they think that it's just too precise, that it has to be a modern artifact.
Reproduction made on some kind of a machine, then they're going to tell you it's a modern, you know, that it's fake.
And from 2500 BC to 5000 BC?
Yeah, I mean, pretty much 40, 45, yeah, 5000.
You're going to find some really crude 5000 BC stone artifacts.
But 4500 to 3100 BC, kind of that pre dynastic time period, is where a lot of these come from.
And from that time period, what are the tools that we have evidence for?
Yeah, I mean, it's garbage.
It's like, you know, you're talking about like, and this is the part where I don't want to like, I think very highly of our ancestors, right?
And this is the part where the detractors are always like, you know, oh, he just thinks our ancestors are idiots, you know, or that, but they didn't have tools that were capable of doing this.
So when you look at the tools in the archaeological record, I mean, you're talking about like flint chisels, you're talking about copper chisels, you're talking about, you know, just pounding stones.
Prehistoric Tool Manufacturing Mystery00:05:54
Pounding stones, exactly.
Sticks, you know, sticks with where you attach a rock.
To the bottom of the stick, and you stick it inside of this thing and you twist it around.
And that's how supposedly you get wall thickness that's perfectly, you know, perfectly the exact same thickness on this side of the artifact as on this side of the artifact.
I mean, to a hundredth of a millimeter.
And you can't do that by just like turning a stick in here.
But that's the tools that exist in the archaeological record from this time period.
It's a time period that we know almost nothing about.
So.
And it's the hardest stones on earth, and it's the hardest material on earth to work with.
And so it's like when you talk about the pyramids, it's like the oldest stuff always seems to be the best.
It always seems to be the most precise.
And it's like you go back and you look at ancient Egypt and the structures that were built and the pyramids that were built, the oldest stuff is always the best.
It was similar with these objects.
And it's like to not have it's just a huge question mark to not have any tools that are capable of producing something like this, and yet here they are.
Here's the artifacts.
And going back to pre-dynastic times, Egypt wasn't even united.
It was Upper Egypt and Lower Egypt were two completely separate areas until Scorpion King came along in whatever, 3200, 3100 BC, killed the king and united Upper and Lower Egypt.
And then they had this glory.
This is the story from the establishment that they had this incredible several hundred year, several couple of thousand year run of pyramid building and creating all these incredible ancient structures.
So, at this time period, in the pre dynastic time period, it was literally, I mean, you're talking like just, you know, very primitive, very primitive people, very primitive tools.
That's the story that we're given.
So, if we wanted to, could we recreate a granite vase that's as precise as that one today?
I think so.
You think so?
Yeah, I do think so.
Yeah.
How would we do it?
With a five axis mill, you know, with like a very sophisticated lathe, and you would probably design it on a computer, you know, you would, you would.
You would just, you know, could it be done by hand?
I'm going to say no.
You know, I'm going to say that we couldn't today do create one of the precision artifacts by hand.
But we would need very expensive machines and computer programs and stuff to create that.
It's not like a hobbyist couldn't do this.
Correct.
Yeah.
A couple of hundred thousand dollars.
You know, you're talking about machines that cost that much.
And there's probably companies that you could, you know, hire to do this.
I haven't seen any, and this is part of the issue.
Like if people can do it and people can make These and it's so cheap and so easy because I've seen some debunking videos that's like, you know, yeah, there's a company in China that can just go make one of these for like $50.
Well, nobody's doing that.
Like, nobody's, you don't see that.
Is there, yeah, is there any videos of people making these?
Right.
No.
And there's no evidence that they exist, you know?
So, and when you look at the market and you're studying the market like I did in 2023, you look at the inventory that's there and available online, it's not like there's like a plethora of new.
Artifacts coming online at all times.
Like right now, if you go out and you try to buy some of these, you're not going to find any.
Like there's none available right now.
And if it was that easy to produce these and to make them and to make them, you know, fake and cheap and easy, and the dealers were like all, you know, like criminals, then you would see these all over the place.
Like you would be able to buy them from anybody, anywhere, you know, because they could, you know, they could make a tremendous markup.
But we don't see that.
And we don't see duplicates.
That's the other thing.
We don't see the same artifact produced twice ever.
That's not a thing.
So it's not as if all of these are so different.
Yeah, totally.
And like this one, they don't have flat bottoms.
They spin.
Right, right.
So if you're making a vase, you think nowadays if you make a vase, it's like to hold something in it, right?
Flowers or a decorative piece that sits on a table.
But if this is a decorative piece that's meant to sit on a table, why wouldn't you make a flat bottom?
Why do these all have these rounded, curved bottoms to them?
Right.
They don't like, they wobble, right?
Like that one right there.
Yeah.
Or this one right here.
Yeah.
All these spin.
Yeah.
I mean, obviously, all the round bottoms spin, but like, even, you know, like this one, like, does not look like it should be able to spin, right?
Right.
But, but they all, I mean, most of them, most of them do.
They, they intentionally rounded the bottom.
That stinks heavy.
Yeah.
That's a big piece of granite.
Yeah.
And it's like, it's like, why would you intentionally round the corners off of the bottom to like maximize, um, Minimize friction.
Why would you want it to be wobbly and to be able to tip over?
Now, I mean, I think if you ask like a historian or someone or, you know, one of the debunker channels, they're going to be like, well, it's, they kept them in sand.
You know, they kept them, they wanted to be.
Sand?
Yeah, I don't know.
I don't know, man.
Oh, they said that?
Okay, I see what you're saying.
Yeah, like in their houses or whatever.
But even that big one, you know, that massive granite one over there, that's going to spin.
This one?
Yeah, that's going to spin.
That's got a round bottom.
Yeah, it's heavy.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Well, my table's kind of messed up.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
But yeah, it's crazy.
Like you see it on.
Look at that.
Yeah.
Right.
Huh.
Yeah.
If you put these on like a flat granite table.
Spinning Granite Cylinder Debate00:06:51
Oh, yeah.
I bet.
All day.
All day.
Like look at, check out this guy, this brush of guy.
And like, so if you're making modern reproductions, these are the kinds of things that like people today, like if you're making these, they wouldn't know that, you know, like people wouldn't.
I don't know.
There's just too many.
There's a lot of reasons to think that these are.
And when you look at them, I mean, these things have got some age to them, man.
Oh, my God.
Yeah.
Right.
I mean, it's different when you like we're holding thousand year old relics made by people that existed fucking thousands of years ago.
Right.
Yeah.
It's pretty crazy.
It's one of the coolest things.
They're like, yeah, they're like little time machines.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Totally.
And they all have a different story, you know, and, and that's the thing.
Like, like you, um, I mean, they, they, there's, there's a possibility.
There's, I think there's three possibilities for each and every one of these that exists in the world.
And the possibilities of when they were made.
And you could say, just starting in the present day and going back in time, you could say, okay, they were either made in modern times as a forgery, as a fake, or they were made by the ancient Egyptians, or they were made by some precursor civilization, like some lost civilization.
There's actually, I mean, there's some good arguments for that.
Like, there's some really good, like, I mean, Ben Van Kerkwick does a great job, you know, kind of pushing that, like, you know, putting that idea forward.
You don't see them after the after like 2200 BC pretty much like you don't see any of these hardstone vases after 2200 BC.
Yeah, like the intermediate period like after the right.
Yeah, you don't you don't see like that's kind of when Egypt fell into like this this like like despair.
It was like a tough time for them and then they came out like 100 years later, but you don't see any after that.
And there's a question as to whether or not you see any of them after 2650 BC.
Which is when Dozier or Zhozier, nobody really knows how to pronounce his name, but the step pyramid guy, the guy that buried himself underneath the step pyramid with like 40,000 of these things.
There's a question as to whether or not we really, if they make any of them after that point in time.
Well, yeah, like the civilization that was there during that time, they were doing very crude stuff.
Like they were creating those hieroglyphs on the side of those boxes.
Yeah.
And they were making other vases that were very crude, right?
Very rough out of different materials, like very softer stone that were nowhere near comparable to these.
But it looks like they could have been maybe trying to copy them or duplicate them or something like that.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, dude, it's insane.
It's a huge question.
Isn't there a video on YouTube of, I think it was on your Twitter, of a guy who tried to recreate one of these things by hand?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
What's that one called?
I think it's Scientists Against Myth.
Scientists Against Myth.
Yeah, okay.
Which.
You know, their bias already to begin with.
Right.
I mean, they're calling this a myth.
You know, anything that's outside of the established story is a myth for these guys.
And what happened in their video?
They spent two.
This is it.
Yep.
Yeah, there you go.
Yeah, they spent over two years, two years and two months, I think it was, creating an artifact.
So they made a couple out of soft material.
That's one of the soft materials.
I think that's Brescia.
And so that's, again, one that's very easy to work with.
That tool, by the way, there's no record of it.
I mean, they're just assuming that the ancient Egyptians were using like a stick with a copper tip on it and sand abrasives and water to hollow out, to core the inside of it, to create the core.
Oh, okay.
Yeah, we don't have that.
That tool doesn't exist within the record.
They're just assuming that it exists, from my understanding.
And again, I'm not like Egyptologist guy.
I just kind of do this for fun, just a hobby.
But yeah, they made a couple of ones that were just really, I mean, look, I got to give them credit for trying, right?
But I mean, what they made was.
So they're starting with this giant chunk of granite.
This, yeah, it wasn't even.
They made, I think they made three, and their first two were not granite.
Their first two were soft stone.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
And then they came back.
It was like Brescia and I think marble.
And marble, people don't realize, is very soft.
It's like the same as like alabaster Brescia.
It's a three on the Moscow.
It's like easy to work with.
So, Statue of David, you know, super easy to chisel that away.
But then they came back because everybody was complaining that they're using these soft stones.
So they came back and they made one out of diorite.
Oh, really?
So, yeah, diorite's like granite.
You know, it's a similar density.
And it took them, or hardness, and it took them over.
Two years to create a.
And this is the one?
I think.
That doesn't look like diorite, though, does it?
I don't know if that's the one or not, to be honest with you.
But, I mean, all these stones kind of blend together.
They can all look.
Yeah, that's the one.
Yeah, that's the one.
Not precise at all after two years.
And so, you know, they had a lot of problems with it.
It broke once.
They had to redo it.
And it's not precise.
Right.
Yeah.
It's certainly not within one thousandth of an inch.
Right.
Right.
I think they're talking about closer to like a millimeter, maybe, of deviation on roundness.
And they're, you know, they're turning it.
So it should be round.
But, oh, yeah.
See?
I mean, it's not.
Yeah.
It's not even close.
I mean, these are like 100 times.
Look at this, dude.
Yeah.
Yeah.
How do you do that?
Right.
Right.
Using a pounding stone.
The biggest thing with this thing that they made is that they cored out the middle, right?
They drilled out the middle, but they didn't.
Ever go in and bore the and hollow the walls?
Oh, yeah, so they just did like one straight tube drill down exactly, exactly.
And after two years, they couldn't, they couldn't like go in and hollow out.
It's pretty decent.
I mean, I mean, they dressed up with that was like they wrote on it with pen and like, oh, really?
Yeah, that's not really what it looks like.
They were also using the wheel, which Egyptologists say Egyptians never had, they didn't have the wheel, yeah, right.
So, so these, I mean, the theory is that with these, that it was like chisels and pounding stones that shaped.
The roundness.
And so, like, right.
So, when these guys are twisting this thing and turning it, that's not the explanation for how these were made.
It's literally like chisels and pounding stones to form this perfect roundness of, you know, up to a thousandth of a millimeter at times.
You know, I mean, that's the extreme, but, you know, a thousandth of an inch is very common.
You know, a couple thousandths of an inch, very, very common.
And you just don't get that with chisels.
Royal Cubit Precision Measurements00:17:20
No.
I can't imagine.
Yeah.
I mean, I've never tried, but I can't imagine it would be possible.
Yeah.
I mean, especially when you're talking about these.
I mean, this one, dude.
Yeah, yeah, that one's weird.
What is your wildest guess to what these were used for?
Oh, man.
Just pure speculation.
Just pure tinfoil hat.
I don't know, man.
I mean, I don't know.
I don't know.
I really have no idea.
I wish I could even.
You ever had any crazy theories?
I mean, this episode of the podcast is brought to you by Verso.
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You know, I think it was probably.
I don't know.
I don't know.
You know, the interesting thing is like.
You see, like on this guy, for example, you see two holes, you know, like on the same.
So it was very important for whatever reason that they had, it didn't have to be on opposite sides, but that they had two holes on the thing in one of the, you know.
So is that a clue as to what it was used for, you know?
I mean, I've heard like crazy stuff like, you know, like positive, negative charges.
It was like, you know, your battery or whatever the hell.
Like, I don't, you know, no idea.
Pure speculation.
Really, really nobody has any idea.
But this one, People say that some people say that they're urns, right?
Yeah, but there's never been like, to my understanding, there's never been like body parts or like even human remains.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
Like ashes or anything found in these things.
Like that's another one of the things.
When you find them in burials, when you find them in tombs, there's not like body parts.
Now, I think like the mainstream explanation is it's like liquids and, you know, like.
Perfumes and like just different kinds of.
And if you've seen the lids on these things, yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, it's pretty silly.
But what do they look like?
You have an image of them on there?
Yeah, I do.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, they're.
Yeah.
Let me see if I can find it.
I mean, so if you can make the artifact itself, why can't you make a lid to match it?
You know, and so the mainstream explanation is that the lids were used.
It's like a.
It's like a clay lid, basically, that you use it as a stopper.
And the explanation is because it's like, you know, it'll expand and contract and it'll be able to.
I'm going to have a hard time finding this.
It's interesting because it's like the insides aren't as perfect as the outsides, right?
Like the opposite of the Serapium boxes where the insides are perfect.
Yeah, yeah.
And the outsides are kind of rough and not perfectly square.
I mean, it's still pretty damn close.
Yeah.
The inside, they oftentimes left the tool marks on the inside.
Like, if I rub my finger on the inside of this top rim, like they literally flattened the top ceiling of this thing.
Right.
Like, how are you going to do that?
Right.
With any of these tools?
Yeah.
I mean, the inside of them, you've got the tool marks, and it's like, you know, it's kind of a question mark as to whether or not the tool marks are horizontal or whether or not they're spiral.
Right.
I mean, you could sometimes they kind of like cross over and you could make the argument that it's a spiral tool mark, but then at other times it's like they're.
They're perfectly flat and horizontal, it looks like.
But yeah, they don't typically polish the inside of the artifact.
Typically, they're leaving that part and showing you the tool marks.
And so, you know, you look in any of these and you've got tool marks on the inside.
And that's why I brought one for you that I think could be a modern reproduction, like a modern fake.
Oh, really?
Yeah, yeah.
And so that's this guy.
So feel this compared to all the other ones that you've picked up.
Oh, it's way lighter.
Right.
It's way lighter.
Check the inside too.
It's like it's polished on the inside the same way that it's polished on the outside.
Oh, yeah.
The inside is just as smooth.
Right, right.
And there's absolutely no damage.
There's no wear.
There's no, you know, you don't get any age on that thing whatsoever.
But it was sold as an ancient Egyptian.
Did you feel this and inspect it before you bought it?
No.
You just look at pictures.
I bought it.
And yeah, I just looked at pictures and it showed up and I'm like, Yeah, I don't know about this one.
No.
But I kept it.
No, the guy gave me the opportunity to return it.
Oh, did he really?
Yeah, yeah.
Oh, that's cool.
But I wanted to use it and it wasn't very expensive.
So I wanted to, and it does not spin.
It doesn't spin.
It's got a per, exactly.
So I wanted to be able to use it as an example of something that is different than what you see on the 65 others.
Yeah.
That it's like, you know, there's a, like people that go and that make these today in China or whatever, like they don't know what they're doing.
You know, they wouldn't know to round the bottom.
They can't put, Age on something like this.
They don't know the leaf tool marks at the top in the inside.
They don't know not to polish.
So, yeah, I mean, that's another good reason to think that these things are genuine and authentic.
Do you have any visuals that show some of the measurements or the scans that were done on these things?
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah.
So, which one would you want to?
Oh, yeah, any of them.
Whatever one you think.
Okay.
Yeah, I mean, this one's pretty great.
This is the gold handle one.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Which is just a.
And why is the gold?
How did they get the gold on there?
What is that?
It's a question, you know.
Maybe that was added later?
Could be.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Could be.
I really don't know.
I mean, supposedly they say it's original, but, you know, it's really kind of hard to know.
But this is the certificate of authenticity that comes with it.
I mean, you get a different one based on.
And is it real gold?
Yeah.
Really?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Wow.
I mean, it's very, you know, it's thin.
It's like gold plate, basically.
But, yeah, that one will spend.
Perfectly for like a very long period of time.
This is a receipt from 1975, you know, that like describes the thing.
And then we go into the CT scan report.
Right.
And again, this was done by a third party.
They don't know, you know, anything about like the project or whatever.
But it gives you these measurements on the artifact and it tells you, and you can compare the different measurements to try to, you know, get a sense for like, you know, the symmetry involved in it.
So, just for example, This measurement is of the X and Y axis of the width of the artifact.
So, it's like the.
Can you punch in on that a little bit?
Yeah, for sure.
Oh, wow.
Look at that.
That's the.
Damn.
Yeah.
So, the measurement is 128.457 millimeters on the y axis.
And on the x axis, it's 128.476 millimeters.
Yeah.
So, you're talking two one hundredths of a millimeter, you know, which is like less than, I think that's less than one one thousandth of an inch.
I mean, you know, crazy, crazy, crazy deviation there.
The mouth, so the mouth opening, and the mouth opening is a little bit more difficult a lot of times because of like damage for whatever reason, like on the inside of a lot of these things.
But yeah, I mean, you got 52.06 versus 52.112.
So, you know, do the math there.
I think you're, I'm not doing the math there.
Yeah, that's minuscule.
It's a lot of math.
Yeah, but very small.
What is that one right there?
So zoom in right there.
What did that say right there?
N O M 2.
52.26, 52.30.
Nominal.
So it's not a real measurement.
The actual measurement is the measurement number.
The nominal is kind of like they create this CAD model of what the perfect circle would look like.
And what, like, I think it's kind of like what they think if they were to, they take a slice of it basically, and then they do a slice all the way around.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then they try to create like a nominal measurement, but that's not a real measurement.
And then, yeah, how to measure the handles.
And a lot of times, yeah, we haven't even talked about like the royal qubit.
Right, right.
We got the sacred geometry baked into these bad boys.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.
Yeah.
But on this one, on the handle measurement, on a lot of these things, the handle measurement is actually a circumference measurement.
So the distance there is meaningless in terms of royal qubits, but when you multiply it by pi and you get the circumference of the handles, which would have on almost all of these been the widest part of the original block that they were using, you get a number that is like a royal pi.
Finger, you know, which is a subunit of a royal qubit, which we can talk about in a little while.
But on most of the other measurements, it's all diameter.
But on the handles, it's usually what I'm finding is it usually shows up in terms of circumference.
So that's that one.
You know, a lot of oh, and you know, I should show you the I had them measure the insides.
I had them measure the inside of the holes just to see if there was anything there, you know, in terms of the royal qubit measurements.
And yeah, but I haven't really found any correlation.
So it doesn't seem like that that's a measurement that they were trying to.
To do.
Interesting.
Yeah.
So that would have been the seventh, you know, but I think I've identified like six on these things.
So, like, there's two questions.
Like, was this purposeful precision or was this just because it was so damn easy for them that didn't matter?
Right, right.
Yeah.
I mean, when you look at the precision as it relates to the measurements, like the royal qubits, then it's pretty obvious that they intended to do that on a lot of these things.
Like, on a lot of these things, it's like, Know on this round one, for example, like it's like it's four uh royal fingers tall or digits, we'll call it maybe a digit tall.
They people call it either one, so it's four fingers tall, four fingers tall, six fingers wide.
So, I mean, 6.0 to like just a couple of thousandths of an inch away from Isaac Newton's 18.7 millimeter royal finger, like the measurement that he defined.
And he realized that the Great Pyramid, the Step Pyramid, the Bent Pyramid, and Great Bent Step and Red Pyramid were all used this measurement of a royal cubit, which was 523.52.36 centimeters.
So 523.6 millimeters was a royal cubit for all of those pyramids.
And he found that the King's Chamber and the Great Pyramid is 10 by 20 cubits, like exactly.
And a subunit of that we know is the finger.
And so there's 28 fingers in every one of those.
So every finger is 18.7 millimeters.
And when you measure a lot of these things, you find that measurement in the dimensions of the artifact on a lot of these things.
Now, I haven't, like, I've only scanned, you know, 12, I think, so far, something like that.
So I got more work to do.
But I have found that royal finger measurement in a lot of them.
Not every one of them, but a lot of them.
And it's consistent because it's in, like, you know, four out of the six measurements.
And it's way more than coincidental that you'd be finding, like, perfect.
You know, 0.0 royal fingers, like, you know, in these things.
So it's pretty clear that at least on some of these things, they were using that system of measurement to create it.
And it's very clear that that dimension and that accuracy of manufacture is like it's one thing to make a circle, right?
And it's one thing to be able to, like, say, okay, I got a circle that's, you know, one one thousandth of an inch of perfect roundness, but it's another to have a dimension that's perfectly round.
Or perfectly precise.
That's one thing that hasn't been really explored on these artifacts in any meaningful way by anybody, really, yet.
It's one of the things that by measuring these things, I'm going to be able to hopefully shed some more light on that.
Is it just random?
Is it just coincidence?
I just happen to have found these things in the first handful that I've measured and I'm never going to find it again.
But you don't see inches.
You don't see centimeters.
You don't see, I'm getting zero hits on just random.
Systems of measurement, you know, like random metrological systems you don't see.
You always see it on that one specific Isaac Newton's, you know, 18.7 that the pyramids were built off of.
Well, those measurements are the measurements that they used back then, though, right?
Those civilizations would use those measurements to do stuff.
I mean, even going to like the Romans and stuff like that, they used the royal cubit, the finger, all those different terms for whatever, the hand.
To build their structures.
So it did change.
All those ancient pyramids, it kind of argues that maybe all those pyramids are a lot older, and maybe these artifacts are a lot older.
If it's the same system that you find in the pyramids that you find in these ancient artifacts, maybe they were either all built roughly within the same couple of hundred years, or potentially it was like a measurement system in use for some lost civilization.
So maybe whoever, it could be a very, very ancient.
Metrological system, or it could just be what the ancient Egyptians used, you know, in the pre dynastic and early dynastic time period.
Because the pyramids measured the same way, right?
Exactly.
Yeah, yeah.
But, but, but like then after a while, the pharaohs started to change up the system, right?
So, so it like the cubit changed based on the length of the pharaoh's elbow to their middle finger.
They would, they would like, they would make the cubit based on how their body was, you know, how long their arm was.
So, so everything got kind of mixed up.
So, that could be part of the reason why you only see it in some and you don't see it in others because I don't know what the freaking, you know, third dynasty pharaoh's elbow length was, you know.
Yeah.
Right.
You know, you know.
So, yeah, there's a lot of unknowns.
But, yeah, this is kind of interesting.
This is the surface deviation report of this specific artifact with the gold handles on it.
And you can pretty clearly see that the deviation is in this is the scale of the deviation.
So, you know, it goes from, and this is in millimeters.
So the surface deviation is not as precise as like the dimensions or the roundness necessarily.
But what you see is, and some of this could be due to surface residue, you know, that I just didn't.
Like that, just wasn't cleaned off, you know, because these are very, very.
When you say surface deviation, what does that mean?
So it's like this part of the object right here that you see in bright orange is 0.3 millimeters above the average.
Ah, got it.
Yeah.
Okay.
So the blue is going like down in elevation.
Exactly.
And the orange is up in elevation.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You can kind of think of like the dark blue as just below sea level, the light blue as sea level, the green as land, and like yellow and red as like.
Volcano, island.
Yeah, like that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, but it is interesting because you see that clearly, you know, you see this yellow line going across the middle of it.
Pretty, I mean, I think that says it was turned, you know, that you've got this whole patch of yellow that goes across the middle of it.
That indicates that a lathe was used, I think, and this is not the best example.
Lathe Marks on Handles00:06:16
I got better examples, but that a lathe was used to manufacture this thing.
And then you got this blue line, you know, right there that goes all the way around it.
That also indicates, you know, this thing was turned on a lathe.
But this, and again, how does that explain the handles?
Yeah.
So, what they would have done is left the material between the handles and then come back and got that later.
And you can kind of see maybe they did chisel that on this specific artifact because, you know, some of these blue, like that, you know, that area, this area between the handles, maybe that was chiseled potentially.
But what they would have done, let me see if I can find it here.
I'm going to.
Probably.
Let's see.
No, not there.
What they would have done, gosh, is they would have, they would have, I'll just jump in.
Maybe they used some kind of like dark magic to make these things soft and they could just mold them however they wanted.
It's possible, you know, I mean, so, but there is really good evidence for lathe use on most of these things.
Like on a lot of these things.
Right.
So let me see the thin wall granite, for example.
So this one is that this is the certificate for the thin one that we looked at where you can shine a light through it.
This is the surface deviation report for that artifact.
Oh, look at that, dude.
Right.
That's pretty telling.
Yeah.
Pretty, pretty telling there.
I mean, that was turned.
I mean, clearly.
Can you punch in a little bit more?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, for sure.
Wow, dude.
Yeah.
Whoever did this, it's like ribbed, yeah, yeah, exactly.
But you can't see that, you can't see it to the naked eye with your naked eye.
It looks completely flat, looks completely like, yeah.
So, whoever made this, this isn't like you know, modern day machine that that would have made this with like lasers because you would never get this, this right, you know, right, you wouldn't get that.
Well, is that how they do it today with when they cut granite?
They use what do they use to cut like precise granite today?
Uh, they use it's like a um.
They've got a handful of different methods, but it's like very, very sturdy on rods, like metal rods, and they're turning it and they're like just shaving it off at like perfect.
I mean, it's computer guided five axis CNC mills, is my understanding.
And it's like, they're shaving it off to perfect roundness.
It's not like you'd be turning it and then changing the tool and going to a higher level and then turning it again, like is kind of what we see here.
So, not a lathe?
This is a lathe.
No, I mean, today.
Oh.
It wouldn't be a traditional, like what we think of as a lathe.
Yeah.
It would be.
Yeah.
It would be.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Just a very sophisticated lathe today.
Good Lord.
Now, what is that red?
That's so is it popping out more or yeah?
So the red, a lot of people, you know, talk about the handles and talk about how the handles are not as precise as the rest of the object and that this shows that that's the case because of the redness.
What you have to understand about the handles is that on every artifact, they're offset, like they're not directly across from each other.
And so people, like debunker people, you know, they're all like, see that it was handmade, you know, it's like clearly handmade.
But in reality, it's on every Every single artifact.
And it's almost always like when you see the side that the handles are closer together, there's some portion of it that's more visually attractive.
Like this one, for example, you got this wide open piece on the granite.
That's the side that the handles are closer to.
So, in my mind, they intentionally had the handles pushed forward to the side where it's more visually attractive.
And I think that this is a good example of that.
There's a bunch of examples of that, but I think they did it on purpose.
Like, I think they, I think the handles were pretty clearly shifted together on one side on purpose on all of these because it's consistent.
You don't find any where the handles are directly across from each other.
But what that does, the software, the program is assuming that the handles are supposed to be directly opposite of each other.
And so when they're not, you get these red lines on the thing, you know?
Got it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I can see how it's almost like pushed forward.
Right.
Right.
And does that speak to the function, you know, whatever the function was?
You know, I don't know.
It's like, again, that's like pure speculation land that, you know, just, I don't know that we know.
So that's kind of interesting.
And then you've got the thickness report, which is pretty cool.
So you can tell that this is where they've really thinned out the wall on the thin wall vase.
And you can see kind of the thickness.
So the green is the thickest?
The green is the thickest, yeah.
And it's always thickest at the bottom.
And I'm guessing the purple is the thinnest?
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's that band there that's super thin.
And unfortunately, the company EMS wasn't able to stack these measurements at the exact same height on both sides.
Bottom versus the bottom, and say, you know, these are at the exact same height.
They're just kind of arbitrarily picking points.
So it's not as if you can compare 4.574 to, you know, 4.435.
But what we did find, and I've got tools like Wall Thickness Gauge, is that when you do that, the wall thickness is one of those other measurements that's always extraordinarily accurate, especially on the precision made ones.
Like the wall thickness on one side at one horizontal axis is going to be.
Almost exactly as thick as the wall on the other side of the artifact.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Wall Thickness Accuracy Analysis00:15:18
So, however they were doing it, however they were hollowing out the interior, it's not like they had like a fork, you know, like a stick with a stone on the end of it.
I mean, it was much more sophisticated of a process than that.
Right.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
So, pretty interesting.
I mean, that's that.
And then, God, it's so fascinating, man.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, how many of these do you think exist in the world?
Shit, man.
That's a good question.
I mean, you're going to hear people say anywhere between, like, you know, at a low, you might hear 5,000.
At a high, you might hear 500,000, you know?
So, I don't know.
You have how many total?
65.
You have 65.
Yeah.
Something like that.
Who owns the most of them?
What do you mean?
Like, who is there one person or organization that has the most of these?
Like, the largest private.
Collection in the world.
So, Fayez Bearcat is an Israeli art dealer and he has the largest private collection of ancient antiquities in the world.
The largest private collection of stone Egyptian vessels specifically.
I don't know.
I mean, I've had people say that I've got to have one of the biggest collections in the world at this point.
Yeah, I imagine you do.
Yeah, but they go up for auction.
So, the reason there's none available right now is.
No collector has died recently, basically, right?
So, like, family, like, some collector will die, they'll pass on his estate to his kids or whatever, and then they go to an auction house and they put them up for auction.
So, you might see like six come out at a time, you know, or 10 come out at a time on like Christie's or Southerly's or whatever it might be.
But again, yeah, you don't see that, you don't see that, you know, often.
What was the name of the Israeli company that has them?
Barracat.
Barracat, yeah.
Yeah.
I found out the name of that Israeli guy, by the way, we were talking about last night.
Okay.
His name was Moshi Diane.
Oh, sure.
Yeah, yeah.
I got a couple of artifacts from his collection.
Really?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So he was like literally a plunderer.
The guy, like, literally just went in there and raided these sites in Egypt and stole all of these artifacts.
He was obsessed with it.
And this was the.
He got an eye patch.
He looks like a raider.
There's a story he was like looking through binoculars during one of the wars and he got shot.
The binoculars got shot with a sniper and it like shredded his eye.
Okay.
But he was a legendary military general.
Right.
In the, what does it say?
He was an Israeli military leader and he eventually became a politician.
And he was a guy who led Israel through the Six Day War.
Yeah, we should talk about that war for a second.
But yeah, I actually only have one from Moshe Dayan and it's very small.
So I thought I had a couple of them, but I remembered the name.
Oh, really?
But yeah, so it came through Fayez Barakat.
Who is the Israeli art dealer?
And in 1968, in the 60s, Fayez had his main office in Israel.
And so, you know, when you talk about a war, the Six Day War in 1967, where Israel occupied Egypt and supposedly stole some artifacts from Egypt, Moshe Dayan and whoever else.
I mean, I mentioned General Uzi Narkis, he was also a general in the Israeli army.
I don't think there's anything that speculates that he stole stuff, but I do have a couple of these things with his name on it.
So, I mean, if there's a way to prove that these were stolen from Egypt, I'm happy to give them back.
Because now we've got the scans, and now that it's like, okay, you've got some precision on these things, and these things actually do have incredible provenance, and you can prove that these are museum pieces that have been stolen, and we can say, look, these are precise down to.
Whatever, I'll ship them back, man.
No problem.
If anybody, you know, if anybody, yeah, absolutely.
I just want to know the truth, you know.
Well, who'd you pay?
I mean, you should at least get your money back.
Yeah, that would be nice.
But, but, but, yeah, I mean, like, again, I should mention that, that I'm doing this to, to try to find out some truth about our history.
Yeah.
Like, I'm not like, I'm not obsessed with these.
I don't care.
They're just, right.
You're not just hoarding these away in a closet.
Right.
You're making these public and like, just trying to explore what the hell was going on back then.
Right.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, they're basically meaningless, but they teach us, you know, I mean, they're rocks, but, but they could teach us.
Yeah.
Spend a small fortune on some rocks, too.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But, but I think they ought to increase, you know, in value as, as people start to understand them, I think it'll be a, you know, a pretty good investment.
Yeah.
But, But yeah, I mean, they can teach us, I think, a lot about our true history potentially.
And if they don't, you know, if they can't, if it's just we can just hand wave this all away as, you know, explainable or fake, that's fine too.
You know, I'm totally fine if the precision ones turn out to be modern day reproductions.
You know, it would be good to know that.
It would be good to know that there's like some sophisticated criminals out there that are running these, you know, these art dealerships and websites and selling fakes.
Like, I think the world should be convincing.
It would have to be convincing.
If people are going to claim that, like, I can't just accept that.
I have to have a reasonable explanation for how.
And, like, what you pointed to earlier was that there's not a ton of these being made and sold for a lot of money.
Right.
And these guys are very happy to refund you your money and you can return the vase to them if you don't want it.
Right.
Like, it's not obvious that these things are being reproduced.
Right.
No, definitely not.
Yeah.
What is, you said Flint Dibble had a theory on these things.
What is, what, what, People like him or like archaeologists say about this stuff?
Handmade.
She said they were handmade.
She's handmade.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, so, so he, yeah, I put out a couple of videos on my ex channel.
My ex channel is, you know, it's small, but I put out a video and got like 200,000 views because people are interested in this topic.
You know, I mean, it's just like repost, repost, repost.
And somebody said, Flint Dibble, what do you think?
And so he came in and I actually said first before he, before I didn't even think he would come on and say anything, but I'm like, Flint, I'll save you the suspense.
Flint's going to say they're, they're, They're fake.
They're because they're just too precise to be made with the tools in the archaeological record.
Flint came on and he's like, you know, he's basically, he basically said this, where is it?
Thin wall, thin wall artifact.
He's like, oh, handmade, handmade.
That was his thing.
And he looked at it.
But Flint, I mean, loved the guy and he did a really good job on the Joe Rogan episode.
I don't want to say love the guy, but he really did do it.
But that was my first introduction to him.
Yeah, me too.
He did a really good job on that.
So, I am interested in his opinion, but he's not an expert on ancient Egypt or on these artifacts.
I don't think he's ever even seen or held one of these things.
Yeah.
I wish they would have spent more time talking about Egypt on that podcast because that podcast was super informative.
Me too.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Agreed.
But he looked at the tool marks at the top of this one from either marks that indicate like a level of liquid or whatever would have been stored in these things.
It's like some horizontal indentations at the top of this, or whatever tool was making this when it was spinning slipped and created some grooves in the top of it.
I don't know which one, but Flint's whole thing was he just saw the marks on this and he's like, oh, handmade.
But when you look at this, I mean, there's no way that he saw the marks on the inside of this right here.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But I mean, clearly the surface deviation report has proven that that was turned on a lathe based on those.
Yeah, he hasn't seen all the evidence.
Right, right, yeah.
Yeah, I would love to get his reaction to all that stuff, all those reports, and to actually hold this in your hand and see the light shining through it.
For sure.
But archaeologists aren't machinists, they're not engineers.
Exactly.
That's the problem with this, the interdisciplinary aspect of it.
Right, right.
Yeah.
But obviously, a very intelligent guy and, you know, doing a good job with whatever he's doing.
And I guess that's the problem with anything, right?
Like, people specialize in one thing and don't collaborate enough.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
People get too, like, just tied to their perspective, their story, their side, you know, and just don't stay open minded to, okay, what are the possibilities, you know, like, yeah.
So, I mean, so, yeah, that, that, The royal finger thing.
I mean, before we move on to the royal finger thing, maybe just show this surface deviation report.
This is again that other one that's like a super, you know, super popular, super well known artifact at this point.
That's this one right here.
That's this one.
Okay.
Yeah.
And again, you've got pretty clear signs that it was turned based on the bottom.
You know, you can see that.
Oh, yeah.
Look at that.
Yeah.
You can see that.
Rings.
Exactly.
Yeah.
It's got rings on the bottom.
The red handle thing, again, is because the handles are offset from each other and the data is assuming that the handles are exactly up.
Part.
We'll get to that in a second.
But the interesting thing on this one for me is the space between the handles.
And again, that would have been if this was turned, which it clearly was, even though archaeologists don't acknowledge that.
Bless you.
Clearly, this one was turned.
And so, you know, and again, we can see that from the bottom.
But then they would have come in with another tool afterwards and removed the material that's between the handles.
And so that's why we see that it's a higher.
Because you can't turn it between the two handles.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You'd have to come in with another tool.
Wow, dude.
Right.
Right.
And it's not like they just chiseled the area between the handles on this one, like, because you would see little chisel marks.
No, it's very, it's very consistent.
Exactly.
Yeah.
So it's almost like a whole, like, who knows what tool that was, but whatever it was is not in the archaeological record.
God, wouldn't you love to take a time machine back to when they were making these things and see what the fuck was all about it?
Hell yeah.
Hell yeah.
Absolutely.
And, like, when would the time machine even take you to?
Right.
Yeah, you'd have to know, right?
You'd have to have like a little barometer inside your time machine to see, look, where the fuck am I?
I just want to go back.
Nobody's going to believe me.
Right, right.
Yeah.
And then the wall thickness, you know, you can kind of see the wall thickness on this thing is just really perfect.
I mean, it's like.
Damn, dude.
Yeah, it's crazy.
Yeah.
I mean.
It looks like Jupiter, like the planet Jupiter.
Yeah.
Yeah, totally.
My bad, this damn iPad.
But then, yeah.
So then what they do is they cut like slices.
Of the thing, and they rotate the slices around and they tell you, like, on the inside of the wall, like, where the variance is.
Yeah.
And then they extend the variance.
So this is not like real.
We're not actually seeing, like, you know, the inside of this red part right here is not actually coming off of the inside that much.
You wouldn't even be able to see how much it's coming off, but they extend it so that it's visible to the human eye.
Right.
But there you can see on the inside, you know, where the tool marks actually happened compared to. whatever slice that they turned around, that there is going to be some like indentations on the tool marks.
So those blue things that are coming in, like on whatever round turn that they did with whatever tool was hollowing out the inside, it got a little bit deeper than the rest of the, you know, the rest of the tool marks.
And then on the red, they left a little bit on that wall for whatever reason.
And on this one, it's actually kind of likely that they left that material there in order to balance it.
Because again, this is like that round bottom one that sits perfectly on its bottom.
They left material.
This is according to Adam Dunn, Chris Dunn's son, who analyzed the report on this one.
I haven't actually verified this yet.
But the handles were slid closer together on one side of the artifact.
And on the other side of the artifact, they left wall material in the inside of the wall.
So they made it heavier on this side to offset the weight that was on this side.
Whoa.
Yeah.
Yeah.
To balance it.
Yeah.
Which, you know, you don't do that.
Because the bottom's not flat.
Right.
Exactly.
And it needs to sit flat.
Exactly.
Wow.
Yeah.
What the fuck?
Right.
Yeah.
Exactly.
Yeah, it's crazy.
There's a lot of, there's a lot of mysteries with these things.
Man man, the little one, I just when I see this little one.
Did you scan any of these little ones?
No, I haven't scanned little ones yet.
I'm thinking they use these ones for drugs.
Yeah yeah, it could be.
I would be fascinated to see how precise these tiny ones are.
Dude yep yep yeah, totally yeah, and i'm gonna get them scanned.
Like I think the uh they, the.
There's a couple of basalt ones, you know.
So this tiny basalt guy is like super round, you know, I mean, it's like clearly not done with a chisel right, like You can't get this level around this with a chisel.
So, yeah, I will scan those.
It's just the same cost to scan the little ones as the big ones.
And this one is like the oddest shape out of all of them.
Like this one looks like it would be a good necklace pendant.
Right, right, right.
Or like one of those flasks.
You could just hang it from your neck and like, yeah.
To carry your purple with you.
Keep your little whatever.
Yeah, and that wall was not bored out.
It wasn't hollowed out on the wall.
Yeah, you can see it doesn't actually follow the whole circumference of that thing.
Yeah, so very, very small hole in that one.
It was just cored.
But, yeah, man.
I mean, the royal qubit conversation is kind of interesting.
If I can find that document here, if you want to go there.
When you say the royal qubit conversation, you're meaning how all these things are a specific amount of.
What do you mean specifically?
So it's basically.
Yes.
So basically, it appears that on a number of these artifacts that I've scanned and measured and found the dimensions of and divided by.
A royal finger, which is 18.7 millimeters, according to Isaac Newton.
Okay.
So, if you find the dimension of like the length and you divide by 18.7, a lot of times you're getting whole numbers and a lot of times you're getting like perfect fractions of numbers.
And so, people are going to say like it's just random, it's just coincidence.
But if we can show through scanning enough of these and through analyzing enough of that data that it's just mathematically impossible to have that much coincidence happen and that, yes, they were in fact using this measurement system, then you can prove that these things were accurate.
On a whole different scale than just roundness, you can prove that they're accurate to like on a dimensional scale as well.
So, like a three dimensional scale.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, it's not just like, you know, this thing is perfectly round to within, you know, a hundredth of a millimeter or whatever.
You can say that this, that they, that they were able to create an object with a mouth opening that was exactly what they wanted it to be to within, you know, like a thousandth of an inch or whatever, which is a whole new like mystery with these things because how could they measure that?
Mathematical Proof of Antiquity00:05:42
You know, like how could they verify?
How?
Right, exactly.
Did they have computers?
Right.
Like what tools were they using to verify that, like something microscopic in a lot of cases that you can't even see with your own eyes?
And they're achieving that level of precision on these things.
So that's a mystery.
What was that?
What was the name of that?
Do you know what I'm talking about?
There was a computer that was found in a shipwreck, like some sort of like ancient computer.
Antikythera.
There you go.
There you go.
Can you pull that thing up?
When was that from?
It was from the, I think it was Greek.
It was like a.
Was it from like 100?
I think it was like a.
Thousand BC or something, a thousand BC, something like that.
Old, yeah, it's you find that, Steve.
Oh, I'm probably way out there.
Oh, there you go.
The Antikythera mechanism.
When was this from?
Ancient Greek hand powered orrery.
It was a model of the solar system, described as the oldest known analog computer used to predict astronomical positions and eclipses decades in advance.
It would also be used to track the four year cycle of athletic games, similar to the Olympiad and the cycle of ancient Olympic games.
So this thing modeled the solar system.
Yeah.
Jeez.
Okay.
When does it come from?
Second century BC.
Wait, wait, wait.
No, that's just an astronomer.
What is it?
So, what is.
The motion was studied in the second century BC, but when do they claim that this thing came from?
The instrument is believed to have been designed and constructed by the Hellenistic scientists in 87 BC.
Whoa, 87 BC.
Or between 150 and 100, or 250.
205 BC.
So, okay.
So, between 87 and 205 BC, those damn Greeks, bro.
Yeah, man.
Yeah, it's got a bunch of gears.
And I want to get an expert in here that knows more about that because it had gears.
It was like a giant watch.
Yeah, go back up to it.
Yeah.
There's a, they did CT scans of it and you could see all the gears and stuff.
Yeah, but that, I mean, look, I mean, that's as incredible as that is, that's at most as early as 200 BC.
Right.
These things are 2500 BC.
At the latest, right?
Right, right.
Yeah.
So, yeah, 26, kind of like 2650 is when they were buried at the step pyramid.
And, you know, you find them in graves.
That's the other thing.
Like, there's supposedly an image in Cairo of a tomb, a Nubian tomb that was found that's like 12,000 years old, 10,000 BC, that had a hardstone vase in it.
And this is according to, You know, Ben Van Kirkwick, but apparently, like the Snake Bros were there and they saw it too.
I asked him for a picture, I haven't got a picture of it yet.
But Ben had one in one of his videos that has like a burial, a grave from like 10,000 BC that has an ancient hardstone vase.
If that's the case, like if that's real, these things could be as old as, you know, life itself.
I mean, we have no idea how old these could be.
Is this the tomb?
Archaeological site along the Nile reveals Nubian civilization that flourished in ancient Sudan.
That's the civilization.
That's the civilization, but it wasn't Sudan, right?
BC.
Hmm.
Maybe.
Who knows?
That was just a quick search.
Yeah, I don't know if it was Sudan or not.
But yeah, I mean, that would be really compelling information.
That would be really compelling that these things could be absolutely, you know, very, very ancient, like lost civilization ancient.
You know, like, I mean, somebody built Gobekli Tepe, right?
Like, they were master stoneworkers, obviously, and Karahan Tepe, and, you know, these sites that have been dated to 11,600 years.
BC, at a minimum.
And so, you know, they're using their master stone workers.
They're like carving mountains off, you know, making them perfectly flat, like inserting 20 ton stone pillars.
So people were working with stone in a sophisticated way.
And we think we know who it was.
Like we, you know, we think like archaeologists, oh, yeah, sure, that was these people.
And they were just, you know, I love how Ben always says, like they were trying to get away from the wife and kids on a weekend.
Right, right.
They were just to hang out, hang out with the boys.
Yeah, yeah.
But I mean, I think that's a possibility, you know?
I don't think that's completely crazy.
Yeah, but I mean, still, though, Gobekli Teppy is incredible as it is.
There's no precision there.
Yeah, that's fair.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean, it's megalithic for sure.
Right.
And it's astonishing considering the date, the carbon dating.
Yeah.
But this, so there's no way to carbon date these, right?
There's no organic material.
You can't date stone, but what you can do potentially is do some studies to try to figure out what tools were used to hollow out the inside.
Because you can, like, and I got to get connected with the right people to send these off to get that study done.
The inside the tool marks, like you can potentially find evidence for whatever was used to hollow them out, you know.
So, that could be something that eventually you can test.
But again, if it's, you know, if it's another stone that was used or copper or whatever, you can't date that necessarily, you know.
So, but there might be something that you can learn from it.
What's the most compelling theory that you've heard about these things?
Phi Ratio and Subunit Alignment00:12:43
You know, I don't know, man.
I mean, nobody you've talked to is like, Like, come to you and be like, Matt, I have an idea.
I know what these things were for.
Like, for their function?
Yeah.
No, I mean, nobody.
Nobody knows.
No, I mean, you know, the most prevalent theory is just that they were just used for, like, you know, decorative purposes.
Like, you know, that there was no function.
So, no, I mean, the function, it's just, you're just getting into pure speculation at that point.
And I think, like, a lot of people are just kind of trying to avoid that until, you know, they know, more about the, until they know more, you know.
Right.
So, but yeah, this, you want to talk a little bit about this, the measurements on these things?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
All right, cool.
So, this guy at the top, this is Adam Young's artifact, right?
So, if you look at this, and the unsigned.io did a report on this that identified some sacred geometry in it.
You know, I'm going to stay away from that because I didn't completely understand the report, to be totally honest with you.
But, But what we do find in here, if you just look at the measurements, and unfortunately, so this scan doesn't have the most accurate, like it's down to a tenth of a millimeter on this scan.
You can see, you know, when you look at like the height, for example, which is, you know, on here, it's that six and four.
So it's 6.412 royal fingers.
But if you back all the way up, if you look at the millimeters on the height, it's 119.9 millimeters.
So they didn't go to the hundredth or to the thousandth of a millimeter on this.
So it wasn't the greatest scan.
But what you find from that when you divide by 18.7 is you get 6.412 royal fingers in height.
And so you look at that and it's like, okay, well, that's a meaningless number, you know, and nobody's really found anything, you know, with that number.
But what 64 represents is the grid of life in sacred geometry.
And so I think that when unsigned.io found the flower of life, As it relates to this artifact with all those circles that he was doing, that what he had actually found was the grid of life.
And that whoever made this thing was embedding the 6.4 as a sign that, hey, this is the grid of life.
And the grid of life is basically the flower of life, except it's like a three dimensional version of it.
So it uses tetrahedrons instead of circles, which this is a three dimensional object.
So that makes sense.
And it's accurate to 6.4 to within nine one thousandths of an inch.
So, it's similar accuracy in the dimensions.
So, in the height dimension, if this is really what they were going for, 6.4, I think it was, it's equal to the accuracy of the circles that we find in it.
And all anybody's been talking about is the accuracy of the circles for the longest time.
But I do think the dimensions are actually something that we really need to look at, too.
The width, the second row down there, is 84.3 millimeters.
And if you divide that by the 18.7, you get 4.5 royal fingers to within six one thousandths.
The neck is phi squared royal fingers.
2.618 is phi squared royal fingers.
So you've got to take phi and then you got to square it and you get two one thousandths of an inch deviation.
Um, I don't know what 1.2 is to be honest with you.
Maybe somebody on the show can leave in the comments, yeah.
What I'm sure somebody will know, yeah.
Let us know, right?
Right?
The uh, the mouth opening on this one is very precise to three one thousandths of an inch of 2.0 royal fingers, so so that one is highly accurate.
And then the lip is pi royal fingers, so the lip is like the the the outside of the circle on the top, um, 3.114 to within five one thousandths of an inch, you know.
So, I don't know, man.
I mean, that one looks pretty compelling, although the measurements and the dimensions of it, but that one seems like it's lining up to this subunit of the royal qubit to within a high degree of accuracy.
Right.
Because it's like all of these measurements.
But then, you know, you don't find this is really the only one where I'm finding these sacred geometry numbers.
Like, I'm not finding like pi row of fingers in the other ones that I've scanned so far.
So, I'm just finding like straight up either whole or fractions of row of fingers.
Wow, dude.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's pretty crazy.
So, so the second one, which is the spinner here.
Yeah, this guy.
When you look at it again, the height is four royal fingers to within seven one thousandths of an inch.
The width is six to within one one thousandth of an inch.
The mouth opening is two and two six.
I think they're using sixths as opposed to thirds, but you could say thirds, you know, and you're less than five one thousandths of an inch.
And the lip is three and a half to within four ten thousandths of an inch.
So less than one one thousandth of an inch, you know, 40% of one one thousandth.
Right.
So very, very accurate on that.
And it kind of just keeps, you know, we don't have to go through every one of these, but you see the same thing on the thin wall artifact.
You know, you see very tight, very tight tolerances.
And then I guess I just kind of probably close with this one, which is freaking huge.
And heavy.
Holy moly.
Yeah.
That's a big one.
Oh, this is the biggest one out here.
Yeah, it probably is.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That thing's huge.
Good Lord.
Look at that, people.
Right.
How big did they get?
It feels like a 45-pound barbell.
Yeah.
That thing's legit.
Is this as big as they get?
I mean, in terms of the hardstone, yeah, they don't get a lot bigger in terms of the hardstone.
Alabaster, the stuff that's like the imitation of this stuff, they can get much bigger than that.
You can feel the ribbing on the inside of it where they use tools to carve it out.
Yep.
Yep.
And that one has good date.
There's images of that one way in the like 20th century.
Like, really?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
There's that one's, I think I feel, I mean, I feel really good about all these.
I'm not going to like buy them if I didn't feel good about them, obviously, but I feel really good about that one.
And that one is measuring out in whole royal fingers, but it's not as precise as some of these smaller ones, right?
But when you look at the height, it's 7.02 royal fingers to within one 100th.
Of an inch, you know, or just less than two one hundredths of an inch.
The width is 13 royal fingers to within, you know, it's a similar type of accuracy there.
The neck, I might be able to get rid of that neck one just because I had to go to circumference there.
And usually you're not seeing circumference on the neck.
But even the 8.925 is pretty close to nine.
The mouth is 4.99 royal fingers.
So you're talking eight, eight one thousandths of an inch.
And the lip is 9.95.
So, you know, and the handles, again, handles are almost always in circumference as opposed to diameter.
That's, you know, five thousandths of an inch.
And so you're talking astonishing, dude.
It's incredible.
I mean, and it's all whole royal fingers on the biggest one, which makes sense because they don't need to go to fractions on the biggest one, right?
Right.
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
So that's that one.
So that's so wild, dude.
It's pretty crazy, man.
It really is.
And it's really cool that you've been able to connect with all these people like Ben, Ben Kirkwick and, you know, the Snake Bros and all these guys who do all these trips out there and are fascinated by this stuff and talk about this stuff.
You'll be able to get them on your podcast and like let them like look at this stuff.
Yeah.
It's super cool.
Yeah.
Yeah, Ben was my first guest on the podcast.
Was he really?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's amazing.
He's a great dude.
I mean, all those guys are great people with Snake Bros.
Was that his first time seeing these things in real life and holding them?
Yeah, it was.
Yeah.
He was like a kid in his pants.
Yeah, pretty much.
Yeah, pretty much.
Pretty much.
Yeah.
I mean, it's hard not to.
Like, it's one thing to see them, like, behind a glass or whatever, but when you see these things, like, you get a sense that these are freaking old.
Yeah.
You know?
Like, it's different.
When you go to a museum, are you allowed to touch them?
No.
No.
I mean, you know, sometimes they might bring them out if you, like, Requested special with like gloves and you know, yeah.
We were sitting at dinner last night in a restaurant, and you literally poured your iced tea into one of them to see, yeah, how much water it would hold, yeah, yeah, yeah.
To show that's insane, yeah, you're a madman, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And this one that was this guy, and it's the spinner, and it still spins with the water, right?
And it actually, this one actually, when you measure the volume of the inside of this one, it's exactly uh, an ancient system of Egyptian uh, measurement, it's a hecket, it's like.
Oh, volume measurement?
Yeah, yeah.
Really?
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, it's like 116th of a hecket, which happens to also, unfortunately, be 300 cc's.
So that's a modern measurement.
So the volume of all of these things could have sacred geometrical numbers.
It could have just numbers that were important for whatever, either trade or you had to know how much you were paying to fill your thing up with whatever liquid or perfume or whatever it was that you were buying potentially.
I don't know.
I don't freaking know, but right, but yeah, but uh, I mean, those are some possibilities that the volume actually did matter.
That's interesting, yeah.
I'd be interested to see like how the volume of all of these different vases compare to each other.
That might be a rabbit hole, yeah.
You could find something out, you could maybe dig deeper into what these things were for, right?
These are kind of cool because um, what they uh, when you set these in water and and they don't have anything in them, they float, yeah.
Yeah, so like the water, they'll sit in the water.
I don't know if you have like a bucket that we could fill like with water or whatever for demonstration, but like these don't sink.
And so like the water, it'll sit all the way up to the water to this point.
Right to the line?
Right to the line and just balance perfectly.
Like no shit.
Yeah, so was that intentional?
That's weird.
Right, right.
Yeah, I get goosebumps talking about it.
Is there any other artifacts that are as wild as this that are out there?
I mean, if there is, somebody's got to tell me about it.
You're not aware of any, though.
No, no, no.
I mean, because this is like some of the oldest stuff that people can get their hands on, right?
I mean, like, you can't collect stuff because, I mean, this is like times that this stuff wasn't like we have no idea the tools.
We don't know how this stuff was supposedly made.
This is like this predates writing in a lot of cases.
You know, I mean, you're talking about like writing, like, you know, whatever, 3300 BC.
A lot of these, like, basalt was being made in like 4500 BC, you know, according to the mainstream explanation for even writing, that this predates that.
You know, so you can't collect stuff that's older than this.
It just doesn't exist out there.
You know, maybe like, Arrowheads that we don't know how old they are, or like beads that we don't know how old they are, or whatever.
But there's no like classification of artifact that exists like this.
It's like the coolest thing ever.
I had a question.
Yeah.
So, talking about the metrics, you know, like keeping everything, like measuring finger, royal fingers, right?
Yeah.
Those handles, those little shoulder pieces, the lugs, they all have holes in them.
Have you ever measured them to see if those holes are the same size or if there's only like a handful of drill bits that they used, or are they just Random sizes.
They seem to be all different sizes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So weird.
Yeah.
Yeah.
They seem to be different sizes.
And it seems like they drilled into one side and then they drilled into the other side and they met in the middle.
So, yeah.
So it wasn't as if it was like, it's not like, oh, really?
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's not like one straight line.
That one, I think, is like clogged.
It has like some on one of them.
There was one that looked like it dipped inwards.
Like it wasn't even, yeah, you're right.
It wasn't a straight line.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And you can see that in the scan.
Better because you get the inside walls, you know, when you look at the CT scan.
But, right.
But yeah, it's like two straight lines that connect in the middle of the lug holes as opposed to one thing through, which makes sense because they're rounded off.
And if you just, you know, you would be like, you could potentially run into the inside wall if you didn't take a slight angle.
Drilling Techniques and Clogs00:09:23
Right.
Yeah.
How do you have time to run your business, dude?
Doing all this crazy shit.
I stopped doing everything else.
Yeah.
I have like no hobbies.
For people that are listening, you are the.
you run Bell's outlet.
That's who your last name is, not Bell's outlet, but Bell's department stores.
And there's no more outlet, right?
Right, right.
Which is ubiquitous.
If you're a Floridian, everybody knows Bell's.
Yeah.
That's funny because when Ben came out here, if you heard of Bell's, mate, this, this, this, this bloke named Bill, I'm like, Bell's?
Yeah.
Like, I'm like, I wonder if it's related to Bell's.
And I looked it up.
I was like, God damn, that's crazy.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You can tell if people are from Florida or not, if they pronounce it Bell's or Bill's.
Right.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
The Australian accent gives it away too.
Right, right, right.
But, uh, Yeah, that's wild.
Yeah, man.
I stopped.
I mean, it was just kind of for 2023.
I really got into this.
And what I did actually is start to work like 13 hour days.
I mean, that's the only thing.
I mean, I started a podcast.
Like, I started, you know, this is actually not as time consuming as you might think it is.
You know, it's just like, and I think that shows by the fact that I've only had 13 scanned and, you know, I haven't been able to really do the royal finger measurements.
Like, I haven't devoted as much.
The most important thing to me, of course, family, number one.
Number two, business, making sure that, you know, that that is, you know, is, is on good standing and that that's going to be successful.
And then, you know, everybody's got to have a hobby.
So I don't drink, you know, I don't like, I don't, you know, I kind of quit playing golf.
So there's not a lot that, you know, I'm kind of like just.
You quit playing golf?
Yeah, man.
I don't have time for that shit anymore.
Why'd you quit?
You just don't have time?
I just don't have time.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, like, I'll, you know, I used to play like whatever once every month or two, and now it's like once every year, basically.
Yeah.
So it's, it's just, It's just tough to get out and make time.
But, but yeah, so, so that's, that's how, you know, I just work a lot, work a lot of hours just to make sure that I get everything done.
Yeah.
We were talking a little bit about last night, but you guys, you guys have still tons of locations all around the country.
Yes.
It's pretty insane.
Like, I never expected to see Bells in like Pennsylvania and other places like that.
I thought it was only in Florida.
Yep.
Yep.
Yeah.
We're 23 states right now.
So, yeah, the off price division, which used to be Bell's Outlet, that's now just Bell's, has really been good.
It's really been on a nice growth streak.
We open like, well, we've got 650 stores, you know, in total.
So, yeah, it's been great.
It's a great business.
It's a great group of people.
I mean, it's just an amazing, like, I love work.
I love showing up.
You know, I love working with my team.
And, you know, it's cool because it's a 109 year old family business.
109.
Yeah, man.
Yeah, we started in 1915.
Whoa.
Yeah.
That's nuts.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You don't see that really too much anymore.
So, like your great grandparents?
Yeah.
Yeah.
My great grandfather and then his son, my grandfather, and then my dad.
Where was the first location?
Bradenton.
Bradenton.
No way.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yep.
Yep.
Yeah.
Right on the Manatee River in Bradenton.
And we kind of grew, like just kind of expanded with Publix.
You know, they would, we would just do like a handshake deal.
You guys want a retailer in your center, you know, kind of thing.
And I mean, We went through the Great Depression, you know, almost.
Yeah.
You know, my great grandfather almost lost the company.
He did lose the company to the banks, to his lenders, and had to work like 12 years to get it back.
So very humble, very, very humble beginnings.
Very, very, you know, it's been, it's been, you know, retail is a challenge, obviously.
You know, it's not for the faint of heart.
You know, there's a lot to it.
It's super detailed, you know, but a ton of fun.
But yeah, we've been through a lot in the last 110 years.
You know, the Great Recession, the COVID, you know, we're shut down for six weeks.
You know, hurricanes like galore, like the hurricane two years ago was just, you know, that hit our heartland, you know, in Fort Myers and Cape Coral.
So, you know, we're.
Yeah, man.
Yeah, tough, tough stories there with people.
But, you know, we've got a good foundation and we try to, you know, through natural disasters, make our employees whole and, you know, do everything that we can to respond to them quickly in times of need while they're waiting for their checks that never, that don't come for months, you know, from FEMA or whatever.
You know, we've got a good system to really take care of our people.
So, yeah, it's fun, man.
I enjoy it.
We, you know, we're not the biggest, but.
I mean, it's pretty freaking big, bro.
600 plus locations.
I mean, everybody knows Bells.
Yeah, yeah.
It's got to be a super time consuming job.
I mean, there's a lot of responsibility.
It's legit.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But it's fun.
I love it.
I mean, I've been in the company, just celebrated my 20 year anniversary, actually, a couple of weeks ago.
Oh, wow.
Yeah, and been doing the CEO chairman thing for four and a half years, right before COVID, right before COVID did that.
So, yeah, it's cool.
How do you guys have such.
A diverse category or such a diverse collection of items for so cheap.
I swear it baffles me every time my wife comes home with something.
She literally came home with these, like, they look like Birkenstocks.
This was two days ago.
Yeah.
She came home with these clear Birkenstocks that, like, they're see through.
Yeah.
But when you walk in the sun, they, like, they, like, gleam purple.
Yeah.
They're the most insane, cool shoes I've ever got.
She's like, yeah, I got them from Bell's.
That's awesome.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, we got a great collection.
That's some wild stuff.
Yeah.
And you can buy it.
You can buy, like, You could buy like enough clothes to last you for five years for 50 bucks.
It's insane.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
No doubt.
Yeah, yeah.
We got a great group of buyers, man.
I mean, they're out there scouring the market for like deals everywhere they can go for like deal after deal, you know, and they're finding them.
And such a variety of brands, too.
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Everything.
Yeah.
Billabong, yeah.
Freaking Quicksilver, Levi's.
Yeah.
Every single freaking amazing clothing brand you think of.
Oh, yeah.
Under Armour.
I mean, like all the active brands.
Yeah.
We got in there.
So, yeah, it's the buyers do a really, really good job.
I mean, they're, they're super talented and they're out there.
I mean, they have.
To.
They're competing with the best retailers in the world, you know, like big, like big, big national retailers that can write orders that are a lot bigger than ours.
You know, we got to, we got to be in there and just, it's just a great company.
It's just a great, like we have great relationships with people, you know, vendor community and they support us and we support them.
So, yeah, man, it's two separate buying staffs for Bells and Bells Florida, which used to be Bells Outlet and Bells Department Stores.
I know that's kind of confusing.
We went through a rebrand, but we got Bells now that used to be Bells Outlet and Bells Florida that used to be Bells Department Stores.
And they have two different buying staffs.
So, yeah, it's two totally different companies.
People think that, like, people used to think a lot that Bell's Outlet got the leftovers from Bell's, but that's never the case.
Like, okay.
Yeah, they're out there, like, they're in market, like, working with the vendors direct on the off price side, on the Bell side.
So, yeah, man, it's good.
People love deals, man.
Oh, yeah.
I imagine half the company has to be like real estate too.
Like, half of it's got to be like managing real estate and like buying and selling real estate assets and trying to like play that whole game.
I mean, we rent.
You know, so it's oh, you guys always rent, yeah.
We haven't owned, we got into okay, yeah.
It was like a lesson we learned super early on, really.
Yeah, yeah, like renting is better now.
I mean, so if we were to own our store locations, you know, we might have a hundred stores right now, but but we'd have a lot of value in the in the land.
But you know, we we we went the direction of hey, you gotta we want to grow and and we want to you know, we don't want to be tied up and we don't want to be a real estate company, we want to be a retailer.
So, so yeah, we we've um, yeah, we rent our store locations and uh, you know, we sign whatever 40 year lease terms, you know, 25.
With extension of lease terms.
So, yeah, the real estate division is 20 people or something like that for the company.
So, they're constantly looking for deals.
We're going to open 30 new stores this year, 40 next year, 50 the year after.
So, we're growing.
We opened, gosh, about almost 200 in the last three years, probably three and a half years.
So, yeah, it's been good.
Like you said, people love the merchandise, people love the people.
We got great.
People working for us.
That's really, you know, when it's a good experience, you're going to come back.
And when you find great products.
So, yeah, man, it's, but it's a very complex retail, it's not for everybody.
You know, it's super complex, it's super difficult.
And, you know, off price and online are definitely disrupting the retail industry for sure, you know, in a significant way between Amazon and between all these online retailers and boutiques and all that stuff.
So, you know, you just got to keep competing, keep doing everything you can.
And, you know, we like providing jobs.
We like, Uh, you know, we we we like the um, you know, the the family likes the the fact that there's nobody else that's really not sold out, like you know, there's nobody else really out there that's like a big family retailer that's still in business today, you know, that's not like uh, you don't you don't see that, so it's all big public companies, and so I it's weird, I always imagined that big uh companies and department stores and even grocery stores, you know, these these uh,
the big retailers that you see in like shopping centers are not malls.
But like mostly shopping centers or like brick and mortar locations.
I always imagined that they would buy the real estate.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, they're almost, everybody's mostly rent.
Templar Knights Property Secrets00:05:10
Really?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Publix does a lot of stuff.
They own a lot of their properties.
They do, right?
Yeah.
But most retailers are.
I think Home Depot does too, maybe.
Yeah.
They probably do too.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then why'd you start?
What made you want to start a podcast?
Just kind of for fun.
Yeah.
I mean, honestly, like I just, like, I was just wanted to kind of, you know, I mean, there's two of them.
So I've got Matt Bell Limitless, which talks about like a lot of kind of stuff you talk about.
about.
It's like I'm exploring just topics that I'm interested in.
I know you're exploring topics that you're personally like super interested in, you know?
And so that's for fun.
Like, I wanted to meet people.
I wanted to explore this topic.
I want to, I kind of started off with the ancient civilization topic on Limitless.
I mean, I've talked to, you know, Ben and Chris Dunn, and I just talked to the Knights Templar, Timothy Hogan.
Yeah, that's a wild podcast.
Dude, yeah.
Jesus.
Yeah, he dropped some freaking bombs on that episode.
It was great.
But, you know, Billy Carson's come on.
Yeah.
I got Randall Carlson coming on next week.
Yeah.
I got a bunch of good guests.
I mean, people are just interested in talking, which is cool.
I mean, it's just a bunch of cool people.
So that's for fun.
And then I've got, yeah, Jehanna James, Brothers of the Serpent.
Yeah.
You do them all in person?
Luke Caverns is a good friend of mine.
Yeah, he's awesome.
Yeah, he's just a good person.
Yeah, I do them all in person.
Yeah, the one, I mean, I've done one who's Ralph Ellis, who he's in India.
Tim Burchett.
Tim Burchett, yeah, the congressman.
That's the congressman.
He came in and did a podcast?
Dude, he came on and he dropped some bombs too, man.
Really?
Yeah, he's like, it's a cover up.
He's like, this UFO thing is a cover up.
No way.
Yeah, dude.
Yeah, yeah.
He's cool, man.
I bet he's got like, you know, I mean, it's like a 40 minute episode.
How long did you do him?
That was three months ago?
Yeah, about three months ago.
Yeah.
No way.
Yep, yep.
Yeah.
George Howard, you talked to George Howard a couple of weeks ago.
Yeah, George was in here a couple weeks ago.
Yeah, yeah.
Or a couple months ago.
Maybe a month ago.
Yep, yep.
Great dude.
Yeah, it was great getting to know George.
Good.
So what is the deal with this Tim Burchek guy?
So he's a congressman where?
He's pushing for disclosure.
I mean, Tennessee is where he's pushing for disclosure.
He's pushing for disclosure.
Yeah.
Right, So there was like a I don't know if I'm going to get this right, but I remember there was some sort of bill that was going through.
And basically, in that bill, they were giving protection to those private aerospace defense contractors to where they could keep their secrets and they wouldn't have to disclose anything.
Right, right, right.
And there were two other congressmen that were from Ohio that were like supporting those.
The Turner people, I think.
Yeah, Mike Turner and somebody else.
And those guys were in Ohio right next to where Wright Patterson Air Force Base is.
Right.
They're getting supported by the company of six.
Yeah, the biggest private defense contractors there are.
Exactly.
Yeah.
So, what was his, what did he have to say about like Tim?
Yeah, about like specifically about the whole disclosure thing and these private companies.
I mean, he's just, he just wants the truth.
You know, he's like, where are the tax dollars going?
Like, what are we spending money on?
Like, why can't we, why can't there be, why do we need the secrecy?
You know, if there, but then he'll go into a SCIF, like a private meeting.
He's been into a couple of those, two, three of those, and they'll tell him stuff.
And it's like stuff that he already knew.
But they'll tell him stuff just so that he can't talk about it anymore.
So now he's like getting, he's like frustrated.
Like, now I can't talk about this because it's like, you know, it's, I was told it in secret compartmentalized information.
Exactly.
So they're messing with him, man.
They're, they're, they're really, yeah, it's interesting the situation.
The UFO topic is so frustrating.
Like, it's so frustrating.
Yeah, it really is.
To dive into.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's just packed with misinformation and disinformation and limited hangouts.
And it's just like, it's made, it's purposely, I think it's on purpose.
Made to be confusing to the public.
Yeah.
You know, they're using like Twitter and YouTube and all these social media platforms to get people on various sides of things, like throwing every single possible theory you could throw into it.
And then people will defend that.
You know, they'll die on any hill to defend their crazy UFO theory.
And then it just turns into a shit show on Twitter where it's just like you don't even want to pay attention to it anymore.
Right.
And I think that might be on purpose.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think you're right.
Yeah.
Yeah, you got to get Tim Hogan on, though, man.
Knights Templar?
Dude, that would blow.
Oh, my God.
So he's the grandmaster of the Knights Templar.
The grand master of the Knights Templar.
Yeah, so he's like the top guy of the Knights Templar.
Knights Templar is this group of people that's like, I won't get it, it's too much to.
You got to talk to Tim.
Give me the elevator pitch.
I mean, the elevator pitch is that he says that the Knights Templar are in possession of the bones of Jesus Christ, John the Baptist, Mary Magdalene, and their combined children.
And he says that he has all of these artifacts from when the Knights Templar were working for the Roman Catholic Church in like the 10th century.
And he's got the arcs of the covenant, and he says there wasn't just one arc, that there were possibly a couple of hundred arcs, and that he has 10 of them, six of them.
Did he show you proof?
Kurt Cobain Death Conspiracy00:04:27
No, he didn't show any proof.
No, no proof.
But he says that he's going to disclose it.
He says that he's waiting for the world to be ready for this.
I would have loved to see some pictures, right?
But he says that within the next five years, he's going to disclose this information and release the information.
I pushed him to get it done sooner than that.
you know, to really like five years is never going to happen to him, you know, but, but like, but he says that that's what he has.
And it's hard to even tell you what he said about the skeletons because, you know, you lose like 85% of the audience.
He said that the skeletons of Jesus and John the Baptist had elongated skulls.
Okay.
Yeah.
All right.
So what, so what is he saying?
He's, he's saying that Jesus was an alien.
He's saying there you go.
I haven't heard that one before.
That's a new one.
I know.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I asked him to trade a couple of Jesus' bones for a couple of vases, but he was not game for that, unfortunately.
But, but, but, yeah.
But I mean, this is, I mean, hey, hey, Big S is like an incredible podcast.
It was an incredible podcast.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No doubt.
Yeah.
Wow.
And the Kurt Cobain thing was pretty dope, too.
I mean, like, that's, that's Tom Grant, who was the private investigator.
He's another guy you could talk to.
I mean, he was the private investigator that, Courtney Love hired to investigate her missing husband, Kirk Cobain.
Oh, no way.
Yeah.
And Tom is convinced that Courtney had him murdered, that Kirk Cobain was murdered.
And there's a lot of evidence that, you know, that it wasn't just cut and dry suicide.
That's interesting.
Yeah.
Not that, you know, I'm not going to, you know, come out and say what, you know, I don't know.
Yeah.
I don't know.
But there's a lot of evidence that it was not suicide.
And, you know, the suicide notes and, and like the, there was an incident in Rome the month before where, you know, it was like he overdosed and, Courtney was saying that that was a suicide attempt after he died.
She didn't say it was nobody.
It was just an accident until he died.
Then Courtney's like, Yeah, she filed a missing persons report under the name of Kurt's mother saying that Kurt was suicidal.
So, like, she was like putting all this, like, suicide stuff out about him.
There's a guy that said that Courtney offered him $50,000 to have Kurt Cobain murdered.
I mean, there's, there's, there's some, it's, and the suicide note itself, you know, there's questions about, Was that actually a suicide note that they found at the scene?
They ruled it a suicide the same day, like the exact same day that they showed up and found the body, they said, suicide.
Like somebody, some reporter came on and said to the media that was there, we've found a body and we found a suicide note.
So at that point, you know, suicide, suicide, suicide, all over the world, suicide.
And they couldn't take it back.
They never did an investigation.
The body was cremated.
Courtney had the.
The greenhouse that he was found dead in just burnt to the ground.
She had the shotgun, you know, apparently.
There's conflicting stories about what she did with the shotgun, but melted down potentially.
Yeah, it's a pretty fascinating story, actually.
Fascinating story, actually.
And I got a follow up interview with Tom coming up because there's been so much questions that, um, that we didn't even have, you know, three hours later, we didn't even have time to get into.
Wow.
Yeah.
Yeah.
He lives around here?
No, he's in California.
California.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's fascinating.
That's, that's a story that I don't know shit about.
I'd have to learn about that.
That's, um, but that is really interesting, man.
Yeah.
Suicides.
A lot of people getting suicided lately.
Yeah.
Yeah.
For sure.
Yeah.
She had a bandmate that actually, um, Died of an overdose as well, a supposed overdose a month after Kurt died.
And it was her bass player.
And there were rumors that she had this diary and that she was with Kurt.
Really?
Yeah.
So that was a suspect kind of a death as well.
So, yeah, man, a lot of interesting things to explore, as you know, which is why I love your podcast so much.
Yeah.
I love the artwork that you use on your podcast.
It's pretty incredible.
The thumbnails are in.
Dude, that was something that somebody internally, one of our artists that does like exclusive brands for us that creates art for our private label brands.
Oh, really?
He's just like, we have like four brilliant artists that work for us.
That's incredible.
Yeah.
Podcast Artwork and Design00:02:10
I'm just like, dude, can you draw like, you know, it's like, give me some like, you know, UFO and a hollow moon.
And he just drew the guy who made the Bells logo made this.
No, no.
Okay.
Okay.
No, no.
The Bells logo is like, yeah.
That's a century old.
You're going with it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But one of our local artists.
I was going to say, this guy's got, this guy's talented, man.
Yeah.
Dude, oh.
Wide range of skills.
Super, super cool.
He can do any style.
Yeah.
Shout out to Craig.
Yeah.
He's awesome.
Dude, that's so sick.
Yeah.
There's another guy who's in St. Pete who I had on a couple of years ago who was the, I don't know if you're into like WWE or ever watched WWE.
Not in a long time.
Or if you were listening to Jimi Hendrix.
Oh, yeah.
This guy was the guy who designed all Jimi Hendrix clothing.
Okay.
And he also designed all like the clothing for Macho Man, Randy Savage, and like all like the famous wrestlers.
And he lives, uh, Right down in St. Pete.
He's like this hippie dude.
He tells all these crazy stories about hanging out with Jimi Hendrix.
Wow.
That's cool.
That's cool.
Yeah.
Well, cool, man.
Thanks for coming on and doing this and bringing all these vases.
This is astonishing to see all this shit and to hold it.
This is like a once in a lifetime opportunity.
I can't thank you enough for taking the time to do this, man.
This is really incredible stuff.
What do you plan on doing next?
Like with all these vases, or like, are there any sort of.
Tests you're going to put them through, or anything you have planned for the future with this stuff?
So, yeah, I mean, I want to keep scanning, obviously, and I want to keep measuring to try to figure out is there something to this royal qubit subunit question?
And I want to just continue down that path.
I eventually want to get to the point where I'm analyzing the inside of it to see if there's any residue left over from whatever the tools were.
But ultimately, the end goal is to build some awareness about this topic so that we can get some pressure on the museum.
To have the museum pieces scanned.
And then I can quit.
You know, I can be like, all right, just turn it over to the.
You can flip it, make a little bit of it, maybe make a profit.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, I'm, you know, I plan on keeping these for life, you know.
Skeptics Requesting Scan Files00:06:00
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, and just, you know, give them to my kids one day, hopefully.
But, you know, I mean, it's one thing, like rock doesn't, you know, go bad.
Like these are, you know, like we were talking last night, you know, I mean, you could own some Tesla stock or you could own, you know, rocks.
You know, like you could own stuff that's.
I choose the rocks.
I choose the rocks too.
So, So that's the plan.
You know, there's been a lot of requests for 3D prints of these because, you know, people have, the 3D prints are freaking awesome.
You know, so, so I printed 150 for the, for George Howard at the Cosmic Summit.
Right there is a 3D print, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, so I don't know.
Um, I don't want people to, I don't like, it would be the easiest thing in the world to stand up a website and to sell these to people, but I don't want people to think like that's why I'm, you know, it would also be a huge pain in the ass, candidly, to like keep up with the, with the volume and to like, to try to like create a business.
So, yeah, I'm, I'm fighting that.
Like, I don't want to like go that route, but I know there's so much interest in purchasing these things that like, I don't know, maybe one day, You know, maybe one day that'll be something that I'd consider doing, but it's just too much right now to even think about.
So I don't really have, you know, I don't want it to look like I'm like trying to monetize this because literally all I'm trying to do is get some answers for people about, you know, and myself, because I think it's a super interesting topic about like, you know, what is our history?
Like, what's the true history?
A, how were these made?
What were the tools that were used to make these things?
You know, and B, when were they made?
You know, like how and when were these things made?
And I think that that could give us some better insight into our true history.
I mean, we know, I won't even get into, you know, the 12,000 year ago Younger Dryas event, but I mean, that's a major cataclysm where like something happened.
I mean, like we know we've got like the black mat layer.
We've got like, that's where George has done incredible work on that with the comet research group.
And, you know, you got the extinction of all the megafauna happening at the same time.
You got meltwater pulse A, 12,800 years ago.
You got meltwater pulse.
Be 11,600 years ago, you got these dramatic climate changes.
There's evidence that like 10% of the Earth's biomass was on fire, 10, 12% of the Earth's biomass.
You know, you got Darren Kuyu, where people were digging underground.
You know, potentially that could be that old to when people were trying to survive some, you know, major whatever pole magnetic pole shift or, you know, comet impact, where just the conditions above ground were not survivable.
So, you know, I mean, there's questions like, Was that the?
It was obviously a worldwide global extinction event.
The only question is were humans civilized at that point in time?
And if they were, these things could be really freaking old, man.
I mean, these things could be really freaking old.
So if they weren't, then if it was just hunter gatherer as the traditional mainstream kind of explanation is, it's like, well, how was Gobekli Tepe built by a bunch of hunter gatherers?
So So, you know, I find it interesting and just hope to be able to clarify some of that, you know, some of the story of our ancient history through some of this research.
And I won't ever be able to prove it by these because, you know, no matter how much I do on these, people could always say it's, you know, it's a modern reproduction.
But I think by putting enough pressure and building some interest in this topic, that we could get some museum pieces.
I would love to see some skeptics get their hands on these.
Not skeptics, I mean experts, like people like, Like Flint Dibble.
I would like to see him actually look at these things.
And I know he's not an engineer, but it would be cool to have some sort of intellectual roundtable of people who can cover all of these disciplines to sit here and look at these things and talk about them.
I think that needs to happen.
A conversation instead of just an argument.
Yeah, right, exactly.
Are you making the scans available for folks?
I'm making the reports available for folks.
I've got the scans available for a couple of these.
So, the scans I haven't put out there yet because I just, I mean, the measurements, everything's available for people to read.
But I guess I'm just a little hesitant to have the rest of the world be able to 3D print these and start their own business and just create replicas of these all over the place.
That's true.
I mean, yeah, that's really literally the only reason.
But what I'm thinking about doing is creating versions of these that are watermarked with some stamped with something that people can take that off and manipulate.
Yeah, for sure.
They can.
But no, I'm not opposed to ultimately making even the scan files available.
I just think that the measurements are really telling in terms of the accuracy of these things.
Yeah, I think it's definitely the number one smoking gun for some sort of super advanced ancient civilization that we don't know about.
Yep, yep.
Yeah, but this scan file is available.
This scan file is available on Uncharted X.
Oh, cool.
Yeah, so you can go on there and download these and print them up if you want to.
Or do whatever you want to do with them.
So, yeah, I totally agree with you.
I mean, if there is some ancient civilization, like if that was a thing, then this is the best evidence that we could possibly have for it.
Yeah.
I mean, for sure.
Yeah, this and the pyramids, man.
Yeah.
I think, I mean, these need to be added to one of the wonders of the world because it's just as unexplainable as those 20 ton megalithic pieces of granite that are sitting up 600 feet in the air in the pyramid in the king chamber.
Downloadable Pyramids Evidence00:01:27
Right, right.
Yeah.
Agree.
Just at like a minute scale.
Like, again, I cannot get over this tiny little vase.
Yeah.
It's so insane.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's crazy.
And then, I mean, you got rock crystal, you know?
Yeah.
I mean, you got like.
That's quartz.
Yeah.
Quartz crystal.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, I think it's the same.
But, but yeah.
Yeah.
Crazy.
Yeah.
Yeah, man.
All different shapes and sizes.
You never see two alike.
It's one of those, you know, it's one of those big mysteries for sure that hopefully by you doing this show and by, you know, getting the word out there, people start talking about this and we can hopefully get some answers to it.
Hell yeah, man.
Where can people get a hold of you?
Where can they find your podcast and all that stuff?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's just Matt Bell Limitless on YouTube, but I'm on Spotify, you know, or whatever as well.
But I'm trying to build that YouTube channel up.
So I appreciate all the subscribers.
And, you know, I'm on X as well.
MattBeingLimitless on X is the handle there.
So perfect.
Yeah, man.
Yeah, I appreciate that.
Cool, dude.
Well, thank you so much for your time and coming out here and bringing all of these amazing artifacts for all of us to.
Hell yeah, man.
I can't thank you enough for having me.
This is like seriously one of the coolest experiences ever.