George Howard details how a 2021 dig at Tall al-Hammam confirmed a Tunguska-sized airburst destroyed the site around 1700 BC, providing scientific evidence for Sodom and Gomorrah. He contrasts this with the Younger Dryas impact hypothesis, which links a 13,000-year-old cosmic catastrophe to megafauna extinction and a global reproductive bottleneck. The discussion expands to panspermia theories, lunar exploration politics, and Malcolm Bendall's controversial thunderstorm generator, culminating in an invitation to the upcoming Cosmic Summit in Greensboro for these unconventional scientists. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, WAV2VEC2_ASR_BASE_960H, sat-12l-sm, script v26.04.01, and large-v3-turbo
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Senate Map Discovery00:14:50
So, George Howard, thank you for coming, man.
How did you get into this amazing wild world of antiquity and ancient cataclysms and all this stuff?
It goes way back.
I was working in the U.S. Senate in the early 90s, and my boss, a U.S. Senator, called and wanted me to get a map for him one day.
He said, Get me a USGS 1 to 32,000 topo.
which I didn't know at the time what it was, but standard map from the US Geological Service.
I said, yeah, I'll get you.
Of my farm.
He had a lot of land in North Carolina.
And so I called up the congressional liaison, told him where I wanted a map of, and they actually brought a rolled-up map over the next day.
And we rolled it out on his desk, and he was looking at something.
And I looked over his shoulder.
There's one after another after another dashed line ellipses on his farm.
Some of them were big.
Some of them were small.
And I said, what are those, boss?
And he said, meteor holes.
And being a science geek, I'm thinking to myself, I was like, meteor holes?
Well, he must mean craters.
And I said, well, Senator, you know, I'm a science geek and have been since I was a kid.
And I love space stuff and I'm interested in impacts.
But North Carolina's never had an impact.
He said, the hell it hadn't.
It was the biggest thing in the world when I was a boy.
A comet slammed into the Carolinas.
And I said, really?
He said, yeah, they call them Carolina bays.
And I said, Oh, I'd actually seen that because wetlands was a part of my portfolio of subjects.
And you'd always see Carolina bays listed with other wetland types.
And it was our state.
I was like, What is this special thing?
I thought it had something to do with the coast, a bay.
But that's actually the bay trees that are in them.
The same thing you put in spaghetti sauce, right?
The little leaves.
Those succulent plants grow in Carolina bays.
In fact, a bunch of interesting plants grow in Carolina bays, a bunch of interesting species grow in Carolina bays.
So then I was like, Wow.
And the internet had just come out and I was actually the first person in the office with the internetist in 1993.
And I went back and Googled or whatever we did at the time, Alta Vista, you know, Carolina Bayes.
And damn it, there wasn't a whole page on them with a whole bunch of information.
And the earliest Bay Nut, and then I subsequently came on and now I've passed the torch off to others, had put up a, he was a digital librarian for the University of Georgia.
And he had early internet access and he put a bunch of information on the Bayes there.
And it speculated that indeed there was perhaps a cataclysm.
That affected the entire East Coast and North America and left these scars.
And I became absolutely fascinated.
And within about a year of that, I started talking to the gentleman.
He said, Yeah, I think it might be responsible for the younger Dryas.
I said, Well, what in the hell is that?
He said, Well, that's the thing that killed off the Clovis people.
I said, Well, who the hell are they?
And just started going down a great rabbit hole.
And then I started, I wrote, actually, a buddy went back to UNC.
We had been graduated six, seven years and he hadn't finished up.
He needed to go do a couple classes and he was taking geology.
And he said, Howard, you keep talking about those Carolina bays, man.
That's one optional subject for a paper I need to write.
Could you put together some notes for me?
And I said, yeah, I'll put together some notes.
And I got into it, wrote a 27-page essay and gave it to him.
He got like a B-plus or something.
And then it was early internet.
This was about 97.
And I had bought georgeHoward.net, as embarrassing as that sounds now.
And I needed something to put up on it.
So I hoisted the paper up on there just for public use.
And that led to the next part when I got into the met the scientists.
So in 99, I got contacted by a Dr. William Topping.
And he's a very strange fellow, probably a little bit touched mentally, but he was an archaeologist.
But he was sending me these kind of kooky emails about, you know, I think you, I found something, I found something that may prove what's in your essay.
That was tiny spherules and impacts in the certain materials that are found at 13,000-year-old archaeological sites, like one he had in Michigan called Ganey.
They're kind of nutty emails.
Then I received another one, and it said, I know Dr. Topping is in touch with you.
He's in touch with me as well.
He's an odd character, but I think he's on to something.
We were searching the internet for catastrophes in the Midwest, explosions, that kind of thing, and they came across my paper independently where I said that There seemed to be a catastrophe that occurred over the Midwest that caused basically a blood spatter pattern over the East Coast of these shallow elliptical depressions in the ground, which are easily seen from above and imperceptible from the ground.
So in the 1930s, they had first taken aerial photography and said, good God, something slammed in the Carolinas.
And that was what my boss was talking about.
I later came across it was on the cover of Harper's Bazaar in, I think, 1932.
And it was the comet that hit the Carolinas.
So he was a little boy during that time.
That's an exciting thing, and that's what he remembered.
And yeah, so the fellow contacted me, the other scientist, and I looked down at his thing.
He didn't seem nutty at all.
And his address was 1Cyclotron Drive, Berkeley, California.
And he's a physicist.
And Dr. Richard Firestone, who's now become well noted as the original author of all this stuff.
And I started working with him, and they wrote a paper, Topping and Firestone, in 2001 in a kind of obscure journal.
proposing that there was a catastrophe 13,000 years ago and that the bays may have been related.
We're still not certain of that by far.
But they wrote that paper.
They made some mistakes in it.
Their assumptions were probably wrong on some fronts.
So it didn't get a whole lot of notice.
But I was kind of in touch with PhDs, which was really cool.
And then 2005, Dr. Alan West contacted me and he said, me and Dr. Kennett, James Kennett, who's a member of the National Academy of Sciences, are going to redo another paper on this subject.
We believe there was a catastrophe 13,000 years ago.
And we think it was global and it was horrible.
And we're interested in the Carolina bays as possibly being related.
Could you collect some samples for us?
So, at their instruction, damn good instruction, and I worked with some other people.
I had soil scientists, fortunately, that actually worked in my company with me.
And we went out and dug into bays and spent days out there and drilling cores and all this stuff and shipping sand out to the University of California, Santa Barbara to be.
Carefully picked through and looked at through transmission microscopes and geochemically tested, and it showed some pretty anomalous stuff.
Like what?
There were spherules and nanodiamonds, particularly at the very bottom of the bay, which might suggest that it was related and that that fallout from the impacts elsewhere, which is an important point.
The bays themselves are not the impact points.
And that was originally suspected in the 30s when they looked at the aerial photographs.
Anybody that looked at them just as they would now will say, well, something just slammed into the ground there.
So several teams of scientists, independent teams back in the 30s, went digging in the bays to find the rocks.
And strangely enough, the same thing happened in Russia at the Tunguska site, which is the tremendous thousand square mile blowdown of the forest that happened up there from above in 1908.
So the first researcher that got out there, Leonard Kulik, he went digging in a number of neat oval bogs looking for the rocks.
And there were no rocks.
It came from above, it blew up above, and it was just the concussion, if you will, that caused the blowdown.
So Are these bays, what do they look like?
Can you find an area?
Is that on the bottom left?
Yeah, the bottom left.
Is that bottom left what Tunguska looks like today?
Part of it.
So there are many of those circular grasslands with no trees, many spots like that.
And essentially, the idea is that there was some sort of an air burst that created a shotgun blast where all these.
Smaller particles or smaller particles, but maybe the size of this table basically slammed into the ground.
Well, I'll tell you where it is now.
And we're out on the kind of the Carolina Bays.
Is this similar to what the Carolina Bays look like?
Well, we'll call them up.
Google Carolina Bays.
Okay.
You tell me.
Carolina Bays.
I don't mean to be suspenseful, but suspense is killing me.
Oh my gosh.
Okay.
Yeah.
Okay.
So they look very similar.
And they're full of water?
Just some of them are.
Those are the ones that the public that lives around them think of those and they know, well, yeah, that's a unique geological feature.
It's Carolina Bay, it's a lake.
But little do they know that when you go look at them carefully, you can see them everywhere in the landscape.
That roads go around them instead of through them.
The churches sit on the rims and they bury people in the sandy rims, all the graveyards on the rims.
So it actually has affected human settlement patterns where these wetlands are because they're all wetlands.
Some are actually lakes.
But the curious thing, Danny, is that they orient themselves, I guess you could say.
They are oriented in a particular direction.
What do you mean by that?
So if you are in New Jersey and you find a Carolina Bay or you see one or you see it through LIDAR, which is very fine elevation data, which you get with lasers, they point more westerly.
In say New Jersey, you get down to the Carolinas and they point northeast.
Then you get down to Georgia and they point north.
So they all converge.
See that bottom left?
If you'll scroll up.
Yeah, click on that bottom left with the yellow.
Yeah.
See that, Steve?
Now it's your top left.
Yeah.
Try to blow that up.
Yeah.
So this was my dream and I didn't have the wherewithal to do it, but others came along and a wonderful guy, Michael Davies. went into full obsession mode for several years and he went and categorized, calculated, defined every single Carolina Bay.
Okay.
And you often see in casual mentions of them that there are 500,000 of them, but they're actually, we've only gotten to 55,000 and they're all pointing.
So if you see up there in the north, they're just a little bit more west.
And if you look down in the south, they're pointing north and that's like a blood spatter pattern.
That says that these things are somehow drawn from a particular location.
So, you're saying, so in that top up by like the Great Lakes, where that centerpiece is, that central spot is, are you saying like a is the idea that a large comet hit there and then debris is like shot out and hit the Carolina Bays?
Precisely, Dr. Jones.
Okay.
And so you call them secondary impacts.
And the idea is that it kicks something into the Carolinas.
So, what did it kick into the Carolinas?
And also in Nebraska and Kansas, and Dr. West and I were the first to note those.
In LIDAR and said, Holy shit, they're all over Kansas and Nebraska and they point back the other way.
They're pointing to the same place.
Pointing towards that center impact area.
Exactly.
And so, yeah, where were we?
Are there any more?
Are those the only ones you found?
You would think there would be more in that there's a big empty area and like the bottom left.
Excellent question.
It's the nature of the soil there that in the Carolinas, this sand, You know, it's a sandy coastal plain all up the East Coast, and that's an important component.
And you have that same with a shallow groundwater table, all right?
So it's sand with water immediately beneath it.
Same thing out there in Nebraska, right?
That it's a sandy soil.
So where you don't see them, where there might have been things that landed, are the red clay country of Arkansas, right?
It's not sand.
It would have eroded or otherwise not shown itself as clearly.
Is the idea.
Okay.
So it only shows up in sandy soils.
And yeah, and it's a mystery wrapped in enigma stuck deep in a black box.
So, what is the conventional theory on these things?
Like, if you ask academic geologists what happened and what the explanation is for those Carolina bays, what do they say?
Yeah.
Actually, let me stick with the extraordinary explanation and then I'll shift to that.
That it was proposed in.
The journal Geology by a good friend Antonio Zamora, who's also kind of a citizen scientist like myself, but he managed to get it published in Geology.
He proposed, I think it was 2015.
I could be wrong.
He wrote a paper that said what happened was his hypothesis was that a fragment of a comet or, say, an asteroid slammed into the ice sheet above Michigan at that time.
So there was up to two miles of ice.
That covered everything 13,000 years ago, and that it excavated immediately, blew out into the lower atmosphere gigantic chunks of ice, as crazy as that sounds.
Okay.
And those hypersonic ice boulder chunks is what was launched.
But immediately prior to that, he calculated that it would have caused a tremendous earthquake that would have shook.
Hypersonic Ice Launch00:14:37
That sandy soil with a low water table and that liquefies sand.
You can go and see earthquakes in Japan where cars will just have the bumper showing and it'll just be sand.
Because if you have liquefied sand, like water and sand, and then you shake it, it becomes like quicksand and things dump into it.
So it would have shaken the ground and then the boulder would have landed on it, excavated out the bay like feature.
And all of them are perfect ellipses in the Carolinas, mathematical ellipses, which suggest a cone.
An ellipse is created by a cone.
If you take, like, the dunce cap and pass it through a flat plane, it leaves an ellipse.
That same pressure wave came down and caused those perfect ellipses.
So that's the Zamora hypothesis, and that's way out there on the edge and not accepted by the mainstream.
What does the mainstream tell you?
They say it is the Aeolian Lacustrine Solution Hypothesis.
And red flags go up right away.
If you're a scientifically minded person, you're like, well, they had to come up with three different processes to get there Aeolian, Lacustrine, Solution.
What's that mean, Aeolian?
Yeah.
Aeolian means wind, Lacustrine means lake, and Solution means dissolve.
I believe.
And so what they're saying, what the mainstream tells us is that there were powerful winds being swept off the glaciers during the ice ages.
And in four different periods, I think is the way the mainstream kind of goes with it now, because they did some dating on them.
They said they were created at different times, some up to several thousand years apart, up to 10,000 years apart.
It happened again.
That these winds came down and blew Puddles into perfect ellipses, right?
That wind, water, and sand create an ellipse.
Now, or, you know, a circular depression.
What is this, Stephen?
So, George was talking about how if you shake sand, it'll liquefy.
And this is, I mean, it literally says liquefying with liquefaction.
So I guess that's the process.
But this is an earthquake that has liquefied the ground to the point that the Vehicles have sunk into it.
And of course, that ground is hard now.
You could walk right out there.
It's just the fact that when you shake the hell out of it and you got sand and water, it turns into just a slush.
Oh, wow.
Right?
So you would have had that slush because the earthquake hit and then the boulders landed into it and it splashed out the bays.
Now, that's an extraordinary hypothesis.
Many may reject it, but I reject the fact that if you just take wind and blow it on these features, it would have created 55,000 perfectly elliptical lakes all.
Pointed the same direction despite being separated in their creation times by tens of thousands of years.
So think of that.
They're 55,000.
They say they formed in four different periods.
Why in the hell, 10,000 years later, would those winds conspire to put it in the same direction again?
Or did it go take all the previous bays and reorient them?
Right?
It seems like if it was done in four different periods, you would be able to say, well, here's genetic class one, here's class two, here's class three.
You can tell their time of when they were created because the winds were slightly different.
But those winds, according to the mainstream, conspired each time.
To be exactly the same.
To be exactly the same.
I have a lot of trouble with that.
Where I go with the bays personally well, first of all, I'll call them the kooky caboose of the Younger Dryas Impact Hypothesis because we included them in the first paper because we had some intriguing evidence.
But it was not the best evidence and we quickly found much more evidence, much better evidence.
Making a case in a scientific publication, it's a little bit like a courtroom.
You try to bring in your best evidence.
That doesn't mean everything that you know about the case you're going to say because some of it might be sketchier than others.
When we had much better evidence and some new people on the team that weren't comfortable with the bays, all cool, we dropped them off.
They've hung to the train of the Younger Dryas Impact Hypothesis as the kooky caboose that you can't quite let go, that will always be connected to it, and the public will speculate, which is entirely appropriate, but just as a matter of Scientific efficiency, we leave them out of the subject now.
Okay.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
Now, can we find a photo in Russia from Tunguska where we can see an aerial photo that compares the bays in North Carolina to the impact in Russia?
Is there any similarity?
Well, there are not many of them, and I don't know.
No one has ever paid too much attention.
Huh?
They do come up with crater, doesn't it?
But there's that one intriguing picture there on the right.
They're like an aerial photo.
Yeah.
Just one.
Well, they generally show that same picture, but you can.
And hey, this is my speculation.
You don't even find this in Zamora's papers and stuff.
I just always thought it was odd that when Kulick went out there, he immediately dug in what I believe he termed a number of neat oval bogs.
Now, maybe the situation was there that they regrew and some are still evident, whatnot.
In other words, the forest regrew.
Who knows?
But he went out there and did the exact same thing that in the 1930s people were doing in the Carolinas, which is look in neat oval bogs for rocks that weren't there because it It just didn't happen the way that it seemed.
So I found it very, very intriguing.
And like I say, I kind of passed the baton.
So I was the bay nut from about 2000, well, 97.
Oh, then my name got associated with Google.
So for years, I would come up with Carolina bays and people contacted me and all that stuff.
But in 2005, these other scientists contacted me and we published in 2007.
And then that initiated.
What has been at least 40 or 50 papers from our side, and you know, close to 200 total, back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, trying to uh argue, debate, whatnot.
That top left one is wild how perfectly circular that is.
Yeah, I took that picture actually.
Did you really?
I did, sticking my head out of a Cessna.
Wow, look at that, man!
Yeah, yeah, how did Wynn do that?
That's nice to see somebody else pick up that picture.
Um, yeah, Wynn didn't do that.
First of all, there's a wonderful fellow.
He was a lawyer in Sumter, South Carolina, who wrote a book called The Mysterious Carolina Bays, Henry Savage.
And like I say, it's kind of a legal thing.
What's your evidence and whatnot?
And he called bullshit on the windwater hypothesis.
He said, just no way.
And one of the things he said, he said, anybody familiar with a southern wetland of tangled vines and trees and herbaceous shrubs and all that stuff knows that immediately you're not going to get a whole lot of formation of stuff.
If you're wet, you're going to kind of stay where you are.
It's kind of hard to blow that around.
Now, that said, you did have different conditions 20,000 years ago, but they're certainly not forming.
Now, my bottom line is that the Carolina Bays were all created at once.
Whatever in hell made that did not occur again and again over thousands and thousands of years.
I think it is plainly obvious, at least to myself, that they all occurred at once.
So, what the hell happened?
So, and additionally, I know Randall talks about what you just mentioned when the Ice sheet was hit.
It carried massive pieces of ice all across the continent.
And there's evidence of rocks that were frozen inside of those pieces of ice that show up like in the scablands or like the northwestern part of the United States.
Yeah.
Rocks that are from a completely other part.
They're native to a completely separate part like northern Canada, Ice Sheet, where it wasn't Canada.
And they were rafted down there in the floods.
Right.
That's right.
And they're left behind as giant erratic boulders.
Mm hmm.
Yeah, like how else would those rocks have ended up there?
Random rocks.
Yeah, well, even the mainstream will tell you that's catastrophic in a sense.
I mean, they're the size of houses and they had to be carried by an iceberg the size of an aircraft carrier.
Right.
Right.
See that photo there on the left, one off the top left?
It's of Michigan.
There you go.
Blow that up.
So that's where they all point back to Saginaw Bay.
All right.
Which is the thumb of Michigan or between the thumb and the hand.
All right.
See how there's a divot over there?
See how Michigan's like a hand, right?
Yep.
And then you've got Saginaw Bay up there in the Northeast.
Right.
Well, that's what they all point to.
Kind of interesting to see that it's a big divot in the landscape.
It's like something was excavated.
And of course, it's not a crater, but you had two miles of ice protecting it.
Right.
So, could it be that whatever hell occurred that day when it slammed into that location, that's the remnant scar of what happens when you hit a mile thick ice sheet with a hypersonic bullet from space?
That the ice shatters and scatters, and then you Are left with what now is kind of the Saginaw Bay feature.
So that's the kind of intriguing stuff that they didn't go and go to Saginaw Bay and then draw lines to the bays.
What they did was draw lines off of the long axis of the bays and then look, well, where did it point?
Holy shit.
It points to a place that actually looks like something kind of strange happened.
Now, do we find similar rocks or nano diamonds in this part of Michigan that are the same as what you find in the bays?
You've got to get below the ice sheet where it.
Reached.
So it cut off somewhere, I don't know, I don't think it went much south of Michigan, but you find it at archaeological sites with undisturbed soils that have been aggrading for thousands of years.
In other words, they're not eroding, they're always collecting more material.
So you can go back through like a time capsule, like archaeologists did, and they cut down.
Then you've got a face of soil on the side of your, I'm trying to think of what they call it.
I've been on a couple of digs.
I forget the.
Or whatever.
But you've got the face of the dig.
And what you do is then test the geochemistry and the compositional analysis of the soil along that face.
And you know what.
And you can know how things changed over time.
So, Steve, if I can take the helm for just a second.
All right.
There you go.
Thank you, sir.
So, when you go to such archaeological sites, Why is it doing?
There we go.
That's a very famous site.
That's called Murray Springs.
Right.
Right.
And that's in Arizona.
And there is a black mat at that location.
That's what archaeologists had called that for years before anybody came up with this stuff.
What is a black mat?
It is a layer of dark soil that was actually produced by algae.
And we agree with that.
They agree with that.
So what happens is the public will see the black mat and very justifiably say, hmm.
That must be the burnt stuff from the very bad day.
That's a bunch of charcoal.
And there is charcoal in there.
But if you see, there's another black mat.
Right?
Wow.
They're all over the place.
I think 80 some percent of the paleo archaeological sites that have 13,000 year old soils, and you can look at these are, I think I've already gone through a couple of different sites.
They all have that black mat or something close to it.
And see, what's interesting is to me, this is not the perfect one, but it does show it.
So, below that line that you see, the upper dark line, see how it's dark?
Yes.
Think of it in terms of time.
Well, that's thousands of years.
So, at the top of that dark layer to the surface, we know is 13,000 years.
So, one can presume that to some degree, without certainty, but one can presume that there were thousands of years below.
But look how the soil color changes for thousands of years afterwards.
Right.
So, it was something, whatever the climatic conditions were before that.
For thousands of years and created that kind of soil.
Then something happened and then it changed forever.
So, how long?
So, that stripe of black soil in the middle, that entire thick portion of darker soil, how long of a time period is that?
That, say, the entire Younger Dry, say, 1200 years.
That's 1200 years.
Because it was a cold, wet algal mat.
And so, below that, it's white again.
So, that looks like maybe it was around 800 years.
Below it.
Well, it depends on how far below you go.
You know well from that photo.
Yeah no, it would.
Let's find it unless yeah, it would be, there's a good one okay okay, this is a great one.
That is not in Arizona or New Mexico or out west, that is in Lommel, Belgium.
So that's the other side of the pond.
You go back 13 000 years.
You look at the soil and there's a black mat.
And this is this idea is not contested by um, conventional archaeology.
The idea that there's a black mat Is not contested.
The explanation for the black mat is highly contested.
Okay.
What is the conventional explanation?
That we're just seeing things, that there just happens to be an algal mat at that time.
But how do they say?
They say they're black mats, and there are.
You can find black mats in all sorts of soils.
And a paper by, was it Piquet or whatnot, came out, I don't know, 10 plus years ago.
And it said, you guys are full of shit.
You can see these black mats one after another in all sorts.
Contested Black Mat Theory00:02:39
It's like, yeah, we know that.
No shit, man.
But these.
Are a black mat that show there wasn't one for thousands of years afterwards and there wasn't one for thousands of years before, and they all show up at the same place at dozens and dozens of sites.
So we're finding the, and then here's the key.
And every single site you find the black mat at about, if you can judge depth by time, they all correlate to 13,000 years ago.
Exactly.
Exactly.
And here's the hack of the Comet Research Group.
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Ancient Hunting Culture00:03:55
Back to the show.
Since the archaeological sites were existing sites, long studied, some of the most famous ones called Blackwater Draw, where they actually.
First, discovered the Clovis people, people who made this beautiful spear point.
It's a Clovis point.
Where did you find that?
That's a reproduction.
That's plastic.
I wish I would.
This is actually, I think, one of the most beautiful ones in the world.
So they made the reproduction from that.
So the Clovis points came from the Clovis people that my buddy had told me about back in 93.
And they're the enigmatic hunting culture that.
Existed just prior to the Younger Dryas and then did not.
And some of the understandings and studies of the period that they flourished in America, because they did flourish, you find these points from South America to Alaska to Miami, could be as narrow as 250 years.
So these are the people that we've long heard about that came over the Siberian ice bridge.
The land bridge.
The land bridge came down through the gap between the two.
Glaciers at the time.
And they tell us also that the hunting tribe with these spear points killed over 200 species of mammals and drove them completely extinct in an orgy of hunting for a couple of years.
They're still sticking to that theory?
Absolutely.
And that is the weakest part of the entire mainstream gang.
And it, you know, they call it over chill, over grill, or over kill.
Mm hmm.
And yeah, we're over grill and then over ill.
So over chill would be that the climate change, the younger drives hit and all those animals went extinct.
Okay.
We'll get to something we talked about at dinner last night in a second.
But so you got over chill, then you got over ill.
Ross McPhee at the New York Museum says that it might have been a pandemic for the animals that swept through these different species of mammals and knocked them out.
And this would include the woolly mammoth, the mastodon, the giant ground sloth, damn things 20 feet tall.
Right.
Yeah.
the gliptodon, an armadillo that weighed a ton the size of a golf cart.
And that all of those died through disease or hunting or just the climate change.
And what we say is that, yeah, the third explanation is right.
It was the climate change.
But the climate changed over a long weekend.
It included probably a global fire that would have burned 10% of the Earth's biomass and actually caused a conflagration as bad as the KT boundary.
Which is where you find the dinosaurs.
But real quick, here's the thing.
Archaeologists, even long before we came along, knew that when they dug at these sites, that they would go down through the soil and they knew they were going to get to the Clovis points and the mammoth bones and all the cool shit right after they got to the black mat.
So they used it as a rule of thumb.
They knew that was the sweet spot, right?
It was under that black mat.
But no one had ever gone and tested with microscopy, atomic microscopes, and with geochemical tools, the constituents of the black mat.
and immediately below it particularly.
So that's what Dr. West and Dr. Kennett and Dr. Bunch and our initial group back 17 years ago went to these well-established sites where you know the dating is solid.
You don't have to make the case that this is 13,000 years out of there.
Geochemical Microscope Tests00:15:12
Dozens of papers on it.
So you go to that.
That's a great hack.
And then you test the soil above and below.
And what do you find?
But dramatic differences.
In the chemistry and the material composition of that soil.
So, if I can get my slide sorter, we'll see if we can find some.
And basically, that means that above the black mat, you do not find things like nanodiamonds, you don't find the spherules, metallic spherules.
And that's a very important point.
That these same lines of evidence were used to prove the dinosaurs were wiped out by a comet.
And they use spherules there too, because what happens is when you have a tremendous impact or an airburst, which we believe caused the majority of this stuff, many, many airbursts, like a nuclear war without the radiation, that it whips the surface of the earth up in a plasma ball of hell, right?
And Steve, if you could call up like.
We'll use our buddy Mark Boslow, our number one critic, did all the work on this.
So we'll give him a little credit here.
Type Boslow Airburst.
Who is this guy?
Oh, he's a jackass.
He's been on our case since day one.
What's his background?
He worked at Sandia National Labs.
Okay.
He's a physicist or something, and he was, he's kind of a failed media figure.
Never made it out of like a few TV shows and was trying to build a rap as a science communicator and whatnot.
Okay.
And he was the airburst expert.
And he had pretty soon after we published the first paper, he dug his heels in.
He said, This didn't happen.
And then he developed a little cabal of people that have continued to publish in opposition, attempting to refute our multiple papers.
So we publish a paper with a new line of evidence.
Then they come out and publish a much shittier paper refuting.
And those things don't get compared in the press.
They'll just say it got refuted by these other scientists.
They said it didn't work.
Well, first of all, if you go put those papers beside each other, you'll see ours are.
Data packed.
Some of them will be 60 pages long, you know, all sorts of stuff.
What is he supposed to be searching for here?
Oh, I'm sorry.
It's B O S L O U G H.
Yeah.
Sorry, brother.
And then what specific photos?
Yeah, we'll see it.
It'll pop right up.
It'll show an air burst with the heat.
There you go.
See that sucker?
Well, that's a bad day, man, when that shit happens.
And the mainstream agrees that that happens.
That is a mainstream guy, our principal critic, Mark Boslow.
Click that top left one.
Yeah.
Showing the hell.
Sodom.
Can you blow up?
Airburst paper.
Sodom.
That's them coming after our Sodom paper.
It's time to retract the Sodom airburst paper.
That's Talalamalam.
After a year, Bunch et al. 2021 still includes claims without evidence, false assertions, fabrications, citations, and non existent papers to a non existent paper and non peer reviewed young earth creation literature.
Okay.
Well, I'm not a young earth creationist, and I find that absolutely offensive.
I'm part of Boslow, I'm one of the et al.s there.
I was on that paper.
But what happens is when you get a certain class of objects that are far more numerous than the ones that'll create a crater.
Right.
So think of two classes, three classes.
One class is if you go out on the beach, Danny, on a certain night, you ever seen a shooting star?
Yeah.
Oh, I have a beautiful thing.
Well, that's a little speck of dust.
Right.
So those are most common.
You're going to have much, many more small things coming in from space.
And then there's another class objects where like the thing that killed the dinosaurs or the thing that made the big crater out in Arizona.
It's a national park.
It's just a perfect bowl called meteor crater.
Outside of Behringer, Arizona.
And that they obviously, those objects made it all the way through the atmosphere and slammed in the ground and left us a calling card, right?
Okay, well, what's in between those two classes?
If you're not so tiny, so tiny that you're just a little shooting star and so big that you leave a hole, well, the middle class is that which creates air bursts.
And think of the atmosphere as being water.
When you jump off a bridge, Say you're committing suicide or something, and jump off a high bridge, you do not create a crater on the bottom of the river or the bay or wherever you are.
You blow up in the water.
Same thing happens if you think of the vacuum or near vacuum of space and you're moving at 70,000 miles an hour and you being the object hit the atmosphere, you're hitting a much, you might as well be hitting the concrete relative to the atmosphere.
Look at that photo.
What a great.
Yeah.
That middle one right below your cursor.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, that's bizarre.
That looks like a render.
Yeah, it's definitely a render.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But it's still a really good depiction of what happens.
I've got a good one.
Here's what it looked like.
This is the best we've been able to do.
So, yeah, I wonder what would be worse?
What would be more catastrophic?
Just that enormous rock slamming into the earth or the shotgun blast that it creates when it blows up in the atmosphere?
Hey, Steve, switch over to me and I'll show you the shotgun blast.
Blast.
I think I'm already switched.
Are we switched?
There you go.
Yeah.
Okay.
See, that's our best shot without a whole lot of production abilities.
Well, those are a lot of things hitting.
Thousands and thousands of them.
Right.
And we believe that's the Taurid meteor stream, which you can go out and see those shooting stars every late June.
We pass through it twice a year, right?
Exactly.
Exactly.
And That we hit a particularly chunky part of it.
Makes complete sense to me, right?
These things aren't uniform.
There's things between you have a big old comet.
Every meteor shower is the result of a fragmented comet, and all comets eventually fragment.
So, say the first big comet comes in, say it's 60 miles wide, which we believe the one that calls the Younger Drysvet could.
How did they figure it was 60 miles wide?
I don't know how they kind of reverse engineered that.
Oh, the total volume of what they calculate.
What is in the torrid stream now, right?
So if you took, and I'm sure it's a rough calculation, but they say, okay, here's how much material we see out there and can project that might be in the stream.
Well, let's shove it all into one piece.
How big would it be?
Okay.
Yeah.
So they, particularly the British neocatastrophists, a wonderful group of heretical astronomers in Britain.
Heretical astronomers.
Yeah, And these guys were in the 70s and 80s, and they were saying the Taurids were responsible for changes in civilization over time and pre civilization in the case of the younger Dryas.
And so they had been saying for years that this was the thing and that it came in around 20,000 years ago.
And this is speculative.
Who knows?
Maybe it's 25, whatever.
But that a comet entered solar orbit and it began to disintegrate like they all do.
There's some out there now.
I think there's one that's almost visible now that you can see.
There are multiple parts, Schwachman Wattman.
Then it goes through what's called hierarchical disintegration.
You've got two pieces, two become four, four become eight, eight become 16.
They're not all doing at the same speed, so you end up with bigger pieces and smaller pieces, but they're constantly disintegrating.
So, presumably, it's getting less and less dangerous, first of all, which is the good news, right?
Because you're getting smaller and smaller pieces.
But as Dr. Napier, one of the great British neocatastrophists, told me, he said, George, it's like you're walking across a highway, son, and you've got a blindfold on.
Yeah, Randall gave this analogy.
Yeah, yeah.
Randall picked it up from me.
Oh, did he really?
Well, and I got it from Napier.
Somebody probably told Napier.
But yeah, you go through with a blindfold on, and you'd be fine most of the time.
You know, two o'clock in the morning, three o'clock in the morning, you're absolutely okay.
Maybe it could be two o'clock in the afternoon.
It's just not that busy.
Just a few cars and you'd make it across most of them.
But sometimes you cross that thing at the wrong time, man, and there are fucking trucks and vans and it's tight traffic, but they're moving 70 miles an hour and you have a very, very bad day.
And that could happen more than once.
And we believe that has happened more than once.
We believe it has happened at least five times since the big one.
Do we think that there were any catastrophic impacts between 13,000 years ago and now?
Like closer to us?
We do.
When was that?
That was for our group.
There are plenty of people who speculate on this stuff and published.
But our group published a paper in 2021 that came up.
That was the one they were knocking there, Giving Grief, where we investigated and I went over there as the first person from a comet research group to the site.
I got a call from another British catastrophist, Tweety gentleman, Phil Clapham, and Clapham said, George, I'm in touch with a biblical archaeology group in the Jordan Valley who believe they found Sodom.
And I said, is this out of a damn movie or something?
What is a biblical archaeology group?
That means that there are people of faith that are following archaeological practices and operating as archaeologists, but they're believers, right?
And there's always been a substantial threat of that.
And in fact, they were the first archaeologists in the Middle East, right?
That they went over there as faithful people digging to prove their book.
Since then, so I joined them on a dig.
I was not particularly.
Write that down, biblical archaeologist.
That'll be our title.
It's a tough mix, man.
It's a tough mix of cultures.
And they carry a big load because they have to both stay true to science while at the same time true to their faith.
And I think you can balance those things, or at least you can tell if they're squirreling it.
And it doesn't do them any good to go and change data and whatnot, which we were accused of.
Mm hmm.
in support of the Bible.
Your interpretation may be different.
So I got a call from the Philippines.
I'm in touch with the Biblical Archaeology Group.
Group.
They are fine, fine archaeologists and have been digging Tal al Hamam for, I think at that time, 15 seasons.
You go out once a year and they would take 50 or 60 people over a month and a half, generally in February, to the Middle East and you dig your ass off and work like a damn mule to dig and excavate at Tal al Hamam.
They've been doing that for years.
They have found a burn layout.
A couple of meters down.
So a burn layer, again, it's kind of like that black map that they found a layer of destruction that indicates that the city there at Tallahalomam was absolutely pounded, everything broken.
Pieces of pottery on one side, some of them are melted at extremely high temperatures, right?
But they didn't know all that.
They didn't know the forensic part of it because they were.
Levantine archaeologists.
They didn't do the geochemistry and the microscope work.
So I went over there.
In the first year, I was about 50% digging with the rest of the gang, but then I had some real leash and I was allowed to just walk around Talhalamam and collect samples and see what I could see, blah, blah, blah.
So we shipped all this stuff back to the US.
Then the next year, I was joined for people who are skeptical of a civilian like me doing this stuff.
Believe me, they'll put the scientists on you.
But I did the initial work.
And then the next year, I came back with an archaeologist, PhD, a rocket scientist, and an MD as part of the Comet Research Group, and we got more samples.
Then they spent six years writing the scientific paper, and it came out in 2021, and it was a pretty big deal.
It was published in Nature, and it provided evidence in support of the Genesis passages concerning Sodom and Gomorrah.
And I have no doubt that Personally, that site is Sodom.
And that's separate from just the impact evidence.
There's a lot of other biblical evidence that suggests that the lost city of Sodom has now been found by Dr. Stephen Collins in Trinity Southwest University.
And that's a Christian school in Albuquerque.
So I dug with them and we published that paper and it has become arguably the most downloaded, popular, read scientific publication in nature.
Last time I checked, it had over a half million downloads and views.
And I think what that is is the generally sometimes woke, but atheist scientific types that are pissed off that something made it into nature that suggests that there's biblical truth.
So they're furtively going on there and reading that paper, going, you know, the bastards, they never should have let that one through.
And then they're the people of faith who say, oh my gosh, there's something in nature that provides proof to, you know, our stories.
And they go read it.
And then there are other just science nuts.
So you take those groups together and it's a very popular paper.
Is this the paper that got 800,000 downloads?
Yeah.
A Tunguska sized airburst destroyed Tel Ahamam, a middle Bronze Age city in the Jordan Valley near the Dead Sea.
Yeah.
And when did this airburst happen?
3,700 years ago.
Wow.
So 1,700 BC.
And that was during the time, if there was an Old Testament, that's when.
That is the time period which is being testified to.
Okay.
And the interesting thing about the site that I thought was fascinating, I'd read the book.
Dr. Collins wrote a fantastic book people can get on the whole story.
It's a little dated now because they've discovered a lot else and this paper came out.
But it was like mentioned in the side of the book and people talked on the side of the thing.
Upside Down Egypt00:05:55
They said, well, it's well established that Talalamam was the last campsite of the Israelites.
So that area around that mound is called Abul Shatim, the field of acacias, which is kind of interesting right there.
You know, acacias have DMT and all that, right?
It's called the field of acacias.
And it's always been accepted as if there was an exodus, that was the last campsite.
And that area is kind of promoted as such.
And when you dig at it, you look over your shoulder.
Well, you look straight ahead to the Jordan River, which is about six, seven miles away.
And then another six or seven miles away is Jericho, the oldest city in the world.
And that's where the Israelites, that's when they, Went into Israel and they sent the spies to Jericho, and it's all spelled out in the Bible.
But the place that they did that from was clearly Talalabam, because when you look over behind yourself digging at that site, you're sitting at the foot of Mount Nebo, and there's the monastery up there that is the site where Moses looked out on the Promised Land.
So he finished his 40 year journey.
He never entered Israel, but at the foot of the mountain is where they would have entered the Promised Land and where they would have established the Tabernacle, I believe, and all of this stuff.
So the ark sat on Tal Ha'al Amam, which is a hell of a second act.
That was 700 years after the destruction, if it all be true.
Right.
I'm like, that's just a hell of a place to both be Sodom and the last place the ark sat until they moved to Jerusalem.
Who was the guy who led some big research project, the guy who claimed he discovered the ark and he was like digging up all this?
Ancient wood.
Are you familiar with the old man?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I forget his name, but when I was studying this stuff closely, Ron Wyatt, maybe?
Ron, yes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
See, is this where he found it?
No, Okay.
And thank goodness.
Right.
This has all been done in an academic context.
You know, this is serious archaeology out there.
Now, yeah, they're people of faith, but I've seen the way they operate.
They're not sitting there deliberately trying to skew things to prove their book.
Yeah, that's from the top of Talalamam.
Cool.
And Where people like Wyatt and stuff were, you know, popular communicators to Christian audiences and trying to get their eyeballs.
And maybe he's right about some stuff, maybe he's not right about some stuff, but he's no archaeologist.
And actually, the place where if you ask people of faith, and I've actually become a better Christian since this, and I go to a Bible study these days.
If somebody told me that 10 years ago, I'd never believed it.
But the other day, we were moving through Sodom right now and moving through Genesis.
And, um, It had in the footnotes of the Bible when the guys read, they said, well, Sodom is supposed to be, according to our people, you know, Christian historians and whatnot, south of the Dead Sea.
So all the faithful argue against this.
Not all of them, but Dr. Collins and that team get pushback first from the other Christians, even though it's the best example of science in support of the book that's ever been.
That Christians that are into this stuff were raised to believe that it was south of the Dead Sea because an old starch collared biblical archaeologist of the 20s, now I think it's F.W. Albright or something from Kansas, who had gone over there to tell everybody that the Bible was true, he pegged it for whatever series of reasons as being south of the Dead Sea.
That's important.
This is what Dr. Collins has explained very, very well, and I can't even imitate it.
He gives textual evidence from the Bible that says that it says that where Lot went and moved his sheep and all this kind of stuff is as well watered as in Egypt.
Well, first of all, south of the Dead Sea is the most forbidding dry desert on planet Earth.
It's the Sinai and the Negev.
I mean, nobody moves their sheep down there.
But if you're north of the Dead Sea where the Dead Sea is, yeah, today.
Would it have been the same back then?
Well, just like Egypt was green 5,000 years ago, but probably not 3,000 years ago.
Right?
And it doesn't meet other geographical clues that they give in the Bible.
If you follow all the stuff and reverse engineer it as Collins did and think of it without the presumptions of Albright and the Christians and without the presumptions of the mainstream that it's all bullshit, Collins looked at it with a new face and he said, geographically, based on what they're saying here in the Bible, I think well watered as in Egypt, it's referring to the Nile Delta.
So you have the river comes up and then it goes into a delta into the Mediterranean.
The same thing happens with the River Jordan as it goes in the Dead Sea.
It has a delta or used to.
Now it's destroyed.
But that was the well watered as in Egypt.
It's just like, except it's upside down, it's just like Egypt there.
It's like a miniature Egypt and it's lush and green and they still grow tomatoes and bananas and weed.
Hell, I was up on the top of the thing and saw these like three or four fires at the farms down below and I was like, what are they doing out there?
They said, oh, the police came in.
Those are raids.
They said, that's where most of your Middle Eastern weed is grown in.
That view where you can see Jerusalem, Jericho, and whatnot, but that's the weed area, right?
And I said, no.
So you're saying this was about 3,000 years, about 1,000 BC?
PXG Black Ops Driver00:02:13
Yeah, 1700.
Yep.
Okay.
So are there any, do you think that that was the only impact during that time, or do you think there's other evidence of other impacts around the world during that same time?
Like assuming that we passed through that same time toward Mother Stream when that happened, and maybe there's some other archaeological sites that we can look at that date to 3,000 years ago?
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Unprecedented Golf Forgiveness00:14:50
It's linked below.
Now back to the show.
And there's only one team in the world doing it, which is ours.
I mean, nobody, if you went and looked and used a slight fraction of the forensic and archaeological and investigative expertise that is available to modern science and looked for these things and took it seriously, hell, you could knock it out in a year.
They need to go all around the world.
For a $10 million National Science Foundation grant, you could go rule this thing in or out by going to shallower grading soils around the world and testing their geochemistry.
A key thing about it, I didn't talk about the geochemistry.
But, like, for example, when you go to some of the spots that you were showing earlier with the black mat in the United States, there's a trash can right here.
You can throw it.
Is there no black mat around the 3,000 year ago depth, right?
So that was probably only focused in that part of the world.
That's right, Danny.
That's right.
Think that this was a worldwide swarm.
So, just like Tunguska, you might have gotten.
Exactly.
Right.
Okay.
But there are other indications that we had other bad days.
And those are principally defined by a dendrochronologist, a studier of tree rings named Dr. Mike Bailey in Ireland.
And he actually did the first set of oak tree rings that reached all the way back 2,000 years, called the Long Chronology, where they go take the timber and match it all up and they Piece it all together and you can see the whole history of the climate over a period.
So, Bailey had put together around the world with others, one of the leading tree ring experts, tree rings from around the world and could see what the climate was like through time.
And he realized 20 years ago, probably now, that five times in the past, every damn tree on earth stopped growing.
They stopped the Bristol Cone Pines in California.
Their tree rings narrowed almost nothing for years at the same time the damn trees in Scandinavia do.
How old are these trees again?
How old are these trees again?
It would have been 40.
Yeah, there you go.
Steve, man, you put Jamie to shame, man.
Look at that.
Bailey noticed indications of severe environmental downturns around 2354, 1628.
See how close that is to 1700?
1159, 208, and AD 540, every damn tree on Earth stopped growing.
Now, you tell me what causes that.
Interesting.
It's nuts.
Yeah, it is nuts.
So these trees just sort of, like their growth is stunted for a period of time and then they start growing again.
And then they bounce back.
So presumably there was post hail of comet fragments.
Climate change that led to difficult years for trees, but it wouldn't have been like the Yarra Dryas event.
That would have been the big mofo, right?
And then these are the little wounds that happen on and off.
on and all.
But then it is suspected by, again, the British neocatastrophists and some free-thinking historians and whatnot that a lot of cultural changes through time may have been forced by catastrophe.
That it's not just one slow, steady progression that results in the naked ape with the black mirror, but actually we get knocked around.
But the reason, actually, the reason we are the naked ape with the black mirror is because of the younger drives of it.
And that's the importance of it because that is well established to be the beginning of modern man and civilization.
Right?
13,000 years ago, right after the Younger Dryas, well established that that's when you started gathering into villages, domesticating animals, and growing crops right after that.
And I asked the discoverer of the earliest agriculture who spoke at the Cosmic Summit 2023 coming up June 15th through 17th in just a month, the next edition, but last year.
Dr. Andrew Moore, who's in his 70s and has been digging a site or dug a site, Abu Huraira, in the early 70s, where he discovered the earliest agriculture.
He later became, was the most recent outgoing president of the American Archaeological Institute.
He's a top archaeologist.
He believes there was a catastrophe 13,000 years ago because at his site where he discovered the earliest agriculture, he found evidence for impact with us.
He had been studying that site since 1972.
When he saw the data, he said, These people are onto something.
He has now joined our team, publishes, and leads on the papers.
That's the kind of scientist you need.
That's exactly the kind of guy.
It takes some courage, but it doesn't take a lot to come back and say, Oh, those things that I thought were campfires, that was actually charcoal from the destruction.
He admits his own previous, what he thinks were flawed interpretations based on new data.
He looked at it again and said, Holy shit, not only did I find evidence for agriculture, I found evidence for catastrophe.
So I said, Dr. Moore, how soon after the catastrophe did we start growing crops, which would have been the very first agriculture on earth?
Okay.
So we got shocked.
We went from plucking pears to pulling plows.
All right.
Kind of like the Bible says, you know, you went from kind of hanging out in a hunter-gatherer world, right, where you didn't grow crops and didn't have sheep and all that.
You just kind of lived off the land.
And then all of a sudden we kind of, It seems the impact shocked us into a different way of life, and we started growing crops.
So I said, Dr. Moore, how soon after the catastrophe do we start growing the crops at Abu Huraira?
He said, Oh, immediately, son.
How quick was immediately?
Like, he meant immediately.
Like, you can't distinguish any time period between them.
And they find their melted glass on bone.
You find that elsewhere, too.
But yeah, there was a bad day at Abu Huraira, the first site of agriculture.
And it did something to us.
So it turned us and it turned us ultimately into the technological people we are today and the society, civilized people for better or worse.
it was probably pretty nice before that so the younger dryas yeah lasted we think 1200 years total right that's right now during that 1200 year span were we constantly getting bombarded by by cosmic impacts or was it was there only one in the beginning in the end we don't know okay I suspect, and others suspect, that it was a period of increased activity.
And in fact, that we may have had increased activity and impact, say that that chunky part of the torrid meteor stream, we're still hitting it twice a year.
Maybe we had a series of bad interactions over a couple hundred years, right?
And they could have lasted maybe they tailed off over a thousand.
We don't know, but we do know that the end of the Younger Dryas was every bit as dramatic as the beginning.
In fact, almost more so.
That we pop out of.
A long period of climate wildness.
Then we have the younger.
You have a long period of climate wildness.
I can show you some graphs.
And then.
And then all of a sudden the climate warms up.
And then it warms up overnight.
It's like somebody's going to make a movie out of this one day.
It's such a great.
It's a three part story.
You've got the people before, then they struggle in the middle, and then the sun rises in the day and God makes it all right again or whomever.
Right?
And then the strangest thing to me.
That then the climate stabilizes till now.
Right.
It is unbelievably quiescent in the last 13,000 years relative to the previous 300,000 or 400,000.
Right.
So it's spiky as shit and wild.
Right.
Can you show a graph that shows the climate for the last, whatever it is, 100,000 years or something like that?
I certainly can, sir.
And I'm like, do we know why, as soon as the Younger Dryas ended, The temperature shot back up because no.
So during the whole Younger Dryas period, it was cold, right?
That's right, cold as shit.
Uh, let me get to there.
You go, okay.
Younger Dryas it plunges down, okay.
Here's the big picture, and at the end, it gets even colder, right?
And this is going back, Danny.
What's it say there?
400,000 years, okay.
And it starts, it's kind of counterintuitive.
The old stuff is on the right.
And then it's getting younger as you go to the left.
Okay.
So I actually should just run the slide or it's going to look confusing.
Okay, here we go.
That's 400,000 years.
Yep.
And then it goes up and down and up and down and up and down.
And then you have the YD there at the end.
What is that YD?
See the summer driest.
Okay, I got it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But here's the thing.
And you asked a good question over dinner last night.
And I said, well, I think I can answer this tomorrow.
You need some visuals.
But I think you were heading towards, well, boy, that looks really wild back there.
What's different about the Younger Dryas, right?
What distinguishes it from those other wild ones?
Well, first of all, it was a pretty good dip.
So it was a good dip in and of its own in comparison to its others that preceded it.
But none of those animals when it stinked, those same animals lived through that 400,000 years.
And then in that final dip, you lose 200 species, 55 genera of animals.
That red line, that's the beginning of the Younger Dryas, the end of the Younger Dryas?
So I'm a North Carolinian, but I love the southern state, South Carolina.
And you can see that is records of Clovis points, these wonderful spear points that came from these people.
Okay.
So that's.
Every Clovis point that's been recorded in South Carolina.
Okay.
And then after the younger Dryas, you never see another Clovis point.
So Clovis people are gone.
But you still see spear points, but it changes to what archaeologists would say a different technology.
How is it different?
It's just a different kind of arrowhead that you don't see.
They don't make them like this no more.
They make them, they call them red stones.
But see how few of those there are?
So it seems like there was a population collapse.
That there are a lot of Clovis points and many fewer redstones.
So, is that a proxy for population?
I don't know.
Maybe they didn't need airheads as much and wanted to change their technology.
I don't know.
But it suggests that humans had a very bad day, too.
Right.
And then there are all sorts of other weird stuff, man.
I'll tell you one that a lot of people don't know about.
And, you know, there's so many people becoming educated on this stuff, which is wonderful.
I remember when everybody that knew about this could fit in a car.
And in fact, sometimes we did.
And now, because of Rogan and yourself and all the wonderful communicators, just watched it blossom.
You know, where am I heading?
I'm getting romantic there with watching all this over the last 17 years.
Oh, gosh, I lost my train of thought.
But the human population collapse is a very, here's another one points Clovis to Redstone.
So those are Clovis on the right.
So, you've got eight to one Clovis in Virginia to Redstone, five to one.
So, it just seems like there were many fewer people.
It looks pretty similar, though.
Yeah.
One looks smoother.
Oh, I know what I was going to say.
A paper came out.
So, everybody, a lot of people are getting educated on this.
So, I want to throw in some new stuff.
One is that a paper came out a couple of years ago.
It must have had 30, 40 authors on it.
It's a genetics paper.
And it said that they had determined that.
13,000 years ago, the composition of males to females changed.
So, what's the composition today?
You know, it's like 52, 48.
I think there are a few more gals than guys.
All right.
But you always think it's 50 50.
After the, during the Younger Dryas, during that period, it went to, I believe the number is 17 women for every man.
Right.
How the hell did that happen?
What kind of weird world?
And why did it change things that way if we're right about our thing?
And if we're not right about our thing, what the hell happened?
Why would would it be from maybe hunting or fighting?
Yeah, there's some indication that stress and cold may change the composition of boys to girls.
But they also says the paper's interesting.
What does it do?
Combat.
This is just the genes that there were literally, whatever, 17 times more men than women or women than men.
So yeah, there's just a lot still to be learned.
It's still coming out, and those people were not interested in proving the Younger Dryas impact, but it helps provide an explanation for the data that they're getting.
So is the idea that more women survived than men?
No, that something would have changed the balance of births from women to men.
Flint's Vase Explanations00:15:07
Let me see if I can find that paper.
So, this, it's been a while since I've done this, but I think it is a proxy for what happened.
Okay.
The transition to human reproductive bottleneck related to the Younger Dryas cooling event.
That's right.
Okay.
Right?
And that's in their paper.
So what they're saying is that it started.
So what they're saying is that it started.
So you can see there's a little bit at once.
So you can see there's a little bit at once.
So our very bad day.
So our very bad day was right there.
Was right there.
And then it starts going down.
So there are more women to men.
So before the Younger Dryas, this was an ice age?
We were coming out of an ice age.
In fact, right before the Younger Dryas, I've heard it said that it was pretty much like it is now.
All right.
And then we saw way more ice.
But way more ice.
Exactly.
There was a lot of ice still left over.
And believe it or not, it takes a long time for that stuff to melt.
So it could be just as warm.
Well, we've got Greenland today.
You've got places that aren't especially cold, but are still got a couple of miles of ice on them, right?
Right.
I mean, they're cold.
But yeah, so it was pretty much like today.
And then temperatures dropped, you know, 15 to 20 degrees in the northern hemisphere almost overnight.
And then that changed the male to female composition, and then it plummets not long after.
Now, this is not the Comet Research Group's data or interpretation.
This is just me, pajama scientist, and whatnot.
But a lot of people notice that.
But one of the things that they could have attributed it or at least included our hypothesis as perhaps a cause, but we're kind of radioactive.
The Younger Drys Impact Hypothesis is forbidden in many laboratories because it's so radical.
So they don't bring us up.
But what do they attribute it to?
And this blew my mind.
Innovations in transportation technology, e.g. the invention of the wheel, horse, and camel domestication, and open water sailing.
Now, those are interesting developments in humans.
The thing is, they all happened 6,000, 7,000 years after this.
So basically, they're supporting Graham Hancock.
They're saying that 13,000 years ago or immediately thereafter, that we were open water sailing?
Well, hell, that's more radical than saying there was an impact.
So, I don't know how, particularly given all of the authors on this thing.
When did they say the open water sailing and the wheel started?
Then.
When?
13,000 years ago, whenever the drop came.
They're attributing this, so at least more than.
It happened at the beginning or the end?
Yeah, this would have been kind of right at the end.
That's when it starts.
So, I don't know how long that is.
That's to 10,000 years ago.
So, then it drops dramatically after that.
So, what they're saying is that dramatic drop 10,000 years ago.
Okay.
Would have been due to open water sailing, the invention of the wheel.
Oh, I'm sorry.
I'm thinking that graph was climate.
That graph is population.
Yeah.
Okay.
Or their main point, what the balance of growth is.
So go back.
I want to look at that graph.
God, I'm feeling weak on this, and I wish I'd read it before we came in a minute.
Scroll a little bit down.
So go back to that colored graph we were just looking at.
Yes, sir.
Okay.
Southeast and East Asia is the blue, and this is population, or this is region.
Okay.
Yeah.
Now, Human reproductive bottleneck related to the younger drives.
So, this is just overall.
I guess it's decline in population and also the change.
Yeah, because you're not going to have as many people if you go through many generations of 17 women to one man.
It's interesting that the Africans didn't drop until way after.
Everybody else uniformly dropped together.
Yeah, excellent, Steve.
Africa didn't really get hit too bad, right?
Because a lot of the Bigger animals survived in Africa.
Exactly.
And think of this.
What an insult it is to those hunters that there's still elephants around.
If the Clovis people could come in and in 250 years take out every mammoth, not to mention an armadillo the size of a golf cart, who the hell eats the last one?
Bears, saber-toothed tigers.
Exactly.
The short-faced cave bear.
Who goes in while there is still a squirrel anywhere that you could go and kill and eat?
Why would you go eat the last short-faced bear?
Right.
Or the last glyptodon?
I mean, people don't.
Eat armadillos today.
The hungriest man in South America doesn't eat armadillos.
Right?
But we ate every single last one of them.
That's absolutely preposterous.
Right.
So big changes during this period.
And you see that throughout science.
You can see paper after paper after paper describing incredible things that happened 13,000 years ago.
The problem is they just don't have what are to some an incredible answer.
There's an equally astonishing answer.
What do I don't remember?
There was a part of the debate with Graham and Flint Dibble where they talked about the younger Dryas.
I don't, did Flint argue against it?
I know he said he wasn't an expert in this.
I think he dodged it.
Did he dodge it?
Yeah, I think he did.
And you'd think I would pay closer attention to that part of it.
But Luke Caverns, who's speaking at the Cosmic Summit, is doing a great rundown, very honest one.
Treating both sides because Flint did a good job.
He did a great job.
He did a great job.
Yeah, I was very impressed.
I was quite literally, I was super impressed.
You know, he really did a good job filling in the blanks for a lot of the things that Graham talks about.
And look, Graham's a very charismatic talker.
He's very intelligent.
You know, he's got the great British accent and he has a lot of really interesting theories.
And he spent his whole life doing this.
Yeah.
But I might want to mention here Flint Dibble is.
Entitled to a free pass and hotel rooms at the Cosmic Summit, please join us.
Flint.
Oh, that'd be great.
Yeah, that'd be really cool, man.
But, you know, something happens when you feel like you're on the right side of an argument or on the right side of history.
Yeah.
And you feel like you're battling against the darkness, right?
Where if you can easily go too far and go full circle and become the very thing that you're fighting against.
Whoa.
And I think you have to be very careful not to do that and pay attention to the nuance.
And that's why I'm so glad that the Flint Dibble debate happened because it opened my eyes to think look, like he made the point himself.
Are there shitty people out there that do shitty things?
Yeah, there are.
And do I think that it was right for him to group Graham Hancock in with white supremacists?
Hell no.
Like that's a really shitty thing to do.
But the guy.
Particularly since he's married to a very beautiful.
Black won't.
Yeah.
But the guy, you know, the guy, you can't paint all conventional archaeologists and academics that way.
I think that's going to be, I think, I hope that's something that people learn from that podcast because Flint is obviously very intelligent.
He's obviously spent his life excavating these places.
And if you go on Reddit, you'll see, I think most people believe that Graham got body bagged on that podcast.
That's okay.
I just hope that more archaeologists see how Flint handled it.
Yeah.
And try to move to more that posture.
Now, it wasn't perfect.
I think he probably was playing really, really nice.
And I think probably when his echo chamber is in full howl about Graham, Flint might be saying some things about the other team that isn't quite as respectful as he was on.
But that's just, I'm just saying, he seemed like a perfectly nice guy.
I'd love to have him, you know, at a conference.
And you see that happen too.
With all areas of expertise, you see there's people who go the academic route and they're in college their whole lives.
They're publishing papers on publishing journals and stuff like that.
And then you have people who are, they just do it as a hobby and maybe they post stuff online and they become wildly popular.
Maybe they publish a book, they become famous, they get all this attention.
And you have the people that have been doing this, been.
You know, drudging through this in academia, not getting any attention for it, that get bitter.
That's right.
Completely understandable.
It is absolute human nature.
And I think there is a phenomenon underway that you're getting to there, too, that is a result of the internet.
And what it is, look at Egyptologists.
I mean, how many in the world could there be?
A thousand?
Tops?
Two thousand?
Okay.
And they're going to be some intelligent Egyptologists.
And in fact, most of your Egyptologists are probably going to be more scholarly and intelligent than.
Than us, right?
Because they're PhDs and a really neat, obscure, difficult subject.
But outside of those 2,000 people, you've got another 8 billion people who do not have the credential, but some percentage of them are going to become very interested in Egypt.
And some percentage of them are going to know more than the Egyptologists.
It's mathematically inevitable because the pool is so much larger.
And 50 years ago, it didn't matter.
The people, first of all, couldn't educate themselves outside the institutions like they can now.
But now you get curious pajama scientists that go and look at Egypt and study up.
I mean, I've very frequently been to Egypt three times.
I've seen a lot of educated tourists, if you will, like me, that knew more than the Egyptologists in certain parts of Egypt and certain stories because a lot of them are siloed in their own little part of Egypt and one site and one thing.
And then you find these people from around the world that get into it.
That take it all in and have a fresh view at it, and I think might have a more intuitive, intelligent, free thinking approach to that.
I think that's happening in science after scientific discipline after discipline after discipline, where now it's the world crowdsourcing of knowledge, and you're always going to come up with some super smart experts that don't have the credentials on the internet versus the 20th century model, which is you don't know anything about this stuff until you go spend eight years getting a PhD and don't say anything.
Until then.
So I think that phenomenon is going to continue, and I think that's good.
I think it was valuable to have the old model and have super educated experts that we anointed as the knowledgeable.
But I think it is wonderful that the world is now coughing up extraordinary people that are autodidactic, that have educated themselves.
Randall Carlson being a fantastic example.
Right.
Yeah, no, it's definitely a good thing.
I think it's a good thing that it's.
Drawn more attention to things like Egypt.
And I'm sure a vast majority of people that visit Egypt go there because of a YouTube video they saw or documentary they watched.
And that's another interesting thing.
I would be really curious to hear some of these guys like Flint's explanation for these vases or those giant saw blade marks that Ben finds or those giant scoop marks in those obelisks.
I just had the Snake Bros on here a couple weeks or a couple months ago.
And they were showing a bunch of the sites around there with those megalithic.
Blocks that are stacked on top of each other.
You're a great example, man.
The Snake Brothers are, you know, they're going to be certain they're not going to be able to read hieroglyphics like some Egyptologists can and whatnot.
But those guys are developing a body of knowledge that I think would be roughly comparable.
They're reading all the papers.
That's what you do in PhD school, anyway, is read the papers.
And then they're having to communicate.
Now the PhD candidate has to write it all out in a 200 page thesis.
But the Snake Brothers got to talk about it for 100 hours.
Those guys know what the hell they're talking about, and they've walked the walk.
They're going over there regularly.
They just spent six weeks there.
So, I think their knowledge is, you know, we got to do it all.
It killed me that Graham didn't bring up the vases on the podcast.
That is the most productive thing going on in unconventional history.
I would love to hear their explanation for that.
You know, that's such a layup now.
And I think it's a little bit because Graham's justifiably, he's of a different generation of these studies.
He's got his game.
And I don't know why he couldn't incorporate this at the last minute, but.
Because this stuff is all new with the vases, but it's the most productive work being done now to say, hey, guys, we need to take another look at our history because the people before the pharaohs made something so perfect that it would be extraordinarily difficult to make now.
In fact, we'd have to make tools that we don't even have now.
No one tries to make something like this out of solid granite now because it's just too damn hard.
Could we do it?
Yeah, but you'd have to stand a team up.
You'd have to invent some.
New tools and new approaches.
And hell, just to measure their perfection, you have to have tools that we didn't have 20 years ago or 30 years ago.
You know, the point cloud scanners that they're determining the perfection from, we didn't have the ability.
How do you make something so perfect when you don't have the tool to even determine the perfection?
And to think it was made before the pharaohs and the mainstream will tell you that.
Now, this is a 3D model.
Print or a 3D, yeah, a 3D print that was done from a scan from one of the original bases, right?
That's exactly right.
So, right, how do you take the hardest, one of the hardest stones that exists on earth and create something that looks like it was built on a pottery wheel with these little handles that are built into it?
They're part of it, they're not added on after.
So, that rules that out.
It's almost like they put them there just to tease you and say, hey, by the way, let's just make sure you know I didn't turn this.
This wasn't turned, right?
At least at that part.
Now, what'd they do at that part?
They wouldn't.
Use their copper chisels.
Now, these are also some of the only ancient Egyptian artifacts that have been 3D scanned with laser scanners.
I know the aerospace department at Rolls Royce with Christopher Dunn's son.
They were part of a big scanning project with Matt's vases.
He donated some of them to those guys so they could actually scan them.
Actually, Adam Young did.
Laser Scanned Artifacts00:02:22
Oh, Adam Young did.
They're two patrons, thankfully, and both of them were well set individuals.
And they scanned them and they basically determined that these things are perfectly symmetrical within like one one thousandth of an inch or something like that.
That's right.
That generation of scans was all from Adam and he's speaking at the Cosmic Summit.
And Matt Bell is coming to the Cosmic Summit, who is a tremendous patron of these objects as well now and collecting them and scanning them himself.
And, you know, Bell's got the resources to keep it going.
And he's also got the passion.
Right.
As does Adam.
They're both.
Tremendous, you know, I guess relatively new additions, at least new additions to the Cosmic Summit team, if you will.
Do we know if we could actually recreate a?
Because I know a lot of people claim that some of his vases that he bought are fake, right?
Is there, do we know if it's possible to recreate something like this out of granite today?
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Now, back to the show.
Precursor Civilization Graves00:02:53
From what I hear, they say, yeah, probably, but we'd have to stand up a team, think it all through, bring in some very sophisticated fabricators, and come up with some new approaches.
We could probably do it, but it's not something that is done now at all because there's no reason for that perfection.
That's another thing.
Usually, perfection, form follows function.
Well, if your function requires precision, then you go ahead and come up with the most precise thing you can to accomplish that.
Right.
But Why on earth, a thousand years or countless thousands of years before pharaonic Egypt, were essentially paleo people somehow making these?
It's a really neat thing.
Thank goodness that it's already accepted by mainstream that it is not produced in dynastic Egypt, that it's a people before.
What they do, they find them where they're found underneath Saqqara, where obviously.
Oh gosh, what's his name?
But that pharaoh had collected them, put them down in the bottom and somebody went and broke a whole bunch of them, right?
And then a bunch else went to museums around the world.
But where did those come from?
We also find them and they have been found and documented and this is where they apparently come from and where they were gathered in that instance in pre-dynastic graves, right?
Where people before the pharaohs and there were people in Egypt long before there was ever a pharaoh and A bliss and pyramids and whatnot.
There were people there.
So in their graves, they find them buried with both these perfect vases and also the same crude vases that were made during the pharaonic times.
Because you can find things that look like this that are made out of alabaster, for instance, right?
Much softer, easier to do, and they're imitating it.
And they're not perfect.
That's right.
And they didn't bother to during the dynastic period to go and do it out of granite.
They did it, and you can see that at the Saqqara Museum.
that you've got these very pretty alabaster bases and they're quite an accomplishment in themselves.
Than themselves.
But you find both of them, even in the pre dynastic Garys, which suggests to me that they were faking them too, but burying their people with vases that they got from people before them.
So it goes back to Hancock et al.'s belief that there was what I call a precursor civilization, a people before that had extraordinary technology.
Of some sort, and this is some of their leftovers.
Moon Backside Secrets00:08:18
Right.
Yeah.
And if there was some sort of super advanced civilization here before the younger Dryas, you'd imagine some of them would have escaped.
Some of them would have got off the planet in their spaceships.
Yeah.
Randall thinks that's where the UFOs came from.
They went to the moon.
They went to the moon.
He told me that down when we went to Rogan.
He did?
Oh, yeah.
We stayed up late in the suite, man, and just had a damn skull session.
What does he say specifically?
He said they were breakaway civilization.
And they lived on the moon.
And then they went to the moon.
Really?
On the dark side?
It was a very strange thing.
Did you see that recent thing?
What was that?
There was a recent thing happened.
It was like in the Congress or something, or a Senate hearing where there was a guy from the head of NASA saying that China was about to research the dark side of the moon or something like that.
And they asked him, like, if we knew anything.
He's like, oh, no, we haven't studied any of that stuff, but we're going to let China do it or something.
Did you see that?
No, I know that they, I just saw yesterday, they've come out with the best.
Lunar Atlas now.
Like China's got the best map of the moon.
I'm sure that includes that.
And they did send a probe to the other side, not last year.
So China is looking at the other side.
And why is there another side?
You know, Danny, one thing that I like to point out about the moon, and I learned this subsequently or heard it again from Randall and other people like Malcolm Bendall, but I had even kind of discovered it 20, 30 years ago.
I saw pointed out that, you know, there depends on how you count them, say 209 moons.
In the solar system, if you went and looked at all the moons around every planet, because some of them have multiple ones, so there are a bunch of them.
None of them, as would be expected mathematically, perfectly occlude the sun.
They do not have eclipses.
Do we know that for a fact?
Yeah.
How do we know that?
Because you know the size of the object.
So you know if you're on Jupiter, right, and you're looking at and you measure Callisto, a moon of Jupiter, or is that Saturn?
God, I'm going to make mistakes outside of mine.
If that's pretty easy to figure out, you know, that thing is that size, would it cover the sun perfectly?
Right.
No.
Right.
And mathematically, just think about it.
There's no, what's the likelihood of one object that's in front of you, between you and another object, being perfectly matching it?
In other words, and this is what causes it the moon is 1400 the diameter of the sun.
So you stretch out 400 moons, you'd have the diameter of the sun.
And it's, but the sun is 400 times further away.
Those are exact.
Those two numbers needed to meet to make it right in the middle.
Right?
Talk about hitting the lottery.
Exactly, Danny.
Exactly.
So, the likelihood of any one object doing that, it's much more likely it's going to be a tad bigger, a tad smaller, a shitload bigger, a shitload smaller.
But ours, for whatever reason, and it also always faces us, that's not always the case either.
In fact, I don't think it's the case in any of them.
We've got an unusual moon.
Are you saying that all the other moons rotate?
Ours rotates, but in a way that it always faces the weird planet.
Title locked.
Title locked.
There you go, Steve.
Exactly.
And I do not believe that is the case in the other ones, but I know that none of them are perfectly included.
So we are the only planet that enjoys an eclipse.
Hmm.
Yeah.
Kind of makes you think somebody put it there.
So I don't want to watch this whole three minute video.
What is the fuss all about with this?
We are using.
Commercial enterprises to bear the cost of landers of which we put NASA instruments that, in effect, become scouts for us before we ever send our astronauts to that part of the moon.
Now, is that what your question is?
Yeah, we're trying to get at what the Chinese are doing, you think, on the backside of the moon.
Do you have any insights on that?
They are going to have a lander on the far side of the moon, which is the side that's always in dark.
We're not planning to go there.
Now, it's not always in dark, though.
What's the benefit of doing so?
We don't know what's on the backside of the moon, so that would be something that they would discover.
But our decision is that it's more profitable for us to go to the South Pole of the moon because we think that's where the water is.
Why do you think they made that decision?
I'm curious.
I have no idea.
Right.
So we know China's doing something and we're not going to try to beat them to it.
That seemed to define the term willful ignorance, where you're like, yeah, no, I just don't want to know.
Right.
When have we ever done that in the history of this country?
That's creepy stuff, man.
And it got him on his heels there.
Yeah.
He didn't have a ready answer.
You know, maybe something's over there.
Yeah, man.
The moon is a mystery.
It is.
It is.
And I mean, I remember.
Seen as a six year old, a moon landing, and then growing up thinking, Oh, you know, we had space in 1999 and we were all going to, I'm just old enough to remember back when we thought that we were going to populate the damn solar system in my lifetime.
And shit.
Yeah, we're just totally stagnant.
Just nothing's happened, man.
And I found that all very odd.
Yeah, something done add up.
Yeah, man.
It's super weird.
Randall seems to know a lot about that.
He didn't really want to talk about it too much when he came on here, though.
Yeah, I hope I didn't.
overtalk, but I do know that he finds the moon significant.
And it used to be the younger Dryas event and UFOs had absolutely nothing to do with each other.
And now you hear it, you know, is it a breakaway civilization?
Is it somebody who got the hell out of there that had a lot of capabilities, but they just didn't have the capability to stave off that day or they left?
It happened and we are somehow an intended result.
I don't know.
But we are from it, and now we're looking back, discovering it, and at the same time finding out about the people who may have broken camp and gotten away.
I don't know.
That's pure speculation.
Yeah.
Well, there's also like we look for planets that are just like ours that we imagine would inhabit life, right?
But there's way more water worlds out there than there are planets like ours in the quote, in the Goldilocks zone or whatever that have like.
You know, the perfect amount of oxygen or whatever.
And, you know, it would be far likely that if there was another species or alien species that was on another planet, it would likely be adapted and live in a water world.
And, you know, a lot of these like recent UFO sightings have shown these submergible vehicles or these vehicles that can traverse mediums.
Yeah, you can.
They come out of the ocean and then go back into the ocean and disappear.
And if they were hiding here.
That would be the best place for them to hide because that's the one place that's been explored.
We've only explored like, I think it's like 17% of all the ocean floor.
Well, let's not get into that Dibble Hancock thing.
Boy, they went over that percentage of.
Oh, my God.
Yeah.
And Graham was kind of way off on his.
He said 1% has been explored.
That's 30,000 acres, and no one's excavated 30,000 acres.
If you call it explored or studied, he was way off on that.
So, yeah, we've studied virtually none of this air and virtually none of the oceans.
And hell yes, if somebody was hiding out, If they wanted to hide, that would be the place to do it.
Jellyfish Worlds Exist00:15:02
But I'm also, if not a pajama scientist, already out of my way over my skis, I'm also a radical panspermist.
And have you ever come across the term panspermia?
Yeah.
It's the idea that rocks or meteorites from somewhere else hit here and that they were, they contained biological material.
Yeah.
And then the radical part is where I am.
But I come by it honestly, I'm pretty good friends.
I say I'm very good friends and have been for over a decade with the world's most prominent panspermist.
And he is coming.
You will meet him at the Cosmic Summit, Dr. Chandra Wikramasinghe.
Right.
And he is a, I think, the world's greatest living scientist.
And one way you can tell that is you don't know his name.
But if you go back and look, he published 70 papers in Nature from 1970 to about 82 or so with Sir Fred Hoyle.
Who was the greatest scientist of the 20th century in Great Britain?
They were at Cambridge, and Chandra was actually so intelligent that the Queen gave him a scholarship, an empire scholarship, to come from Sri Lanka as a boy.
He got on a steamship and was delivered to England as one of the most intelligent people in the empire.
They had like a scholarship program.
So England ruled the world, and they say, Who's the smartest ones out there?
Cambridge or Oxford.
So Chandra was able to as a young boy, and he was kind of delivered into the hands of Sir Fred Hoyle.
And they, Fred had defined how the sun works, and then they discovered and published that what was cosmic dust out there, gigantic dust clouds out in interstellar space, that dust was actually organic molecules, right?
Which is the, as they say, and I hate this term, the building blocks of life.
That's all that the, you know, the God, what do you call them?
Astrobiologists.
They're always looking for the building blocks of life.
They're never looking for life.
Always building blocks.
So, and they defined that and said, holy cow, well, this stuff is not just dust.
It's not little pieces of graphite.
It's actually, you know, carbon based molecules just like life is.
And then it stopped there.
Their changing of what we understand is out there, but they didn't stop.
Fred and Chandra went on and said, We went and took the spectra, and Steve, you might search Mustafa spectra panspermia.
Mustafa, that's right.
And we'll see if we can get it.
They went and looked at one and then images.
Yes, sir.
Oh, God.
Okay.
Put in, I hate to do this to you, but put in Hoyle.
Instead of Wickramasingh.
Instead of what?
Yeah.
I'm going to find it.
Yeah, Hoyle.
I just went, what they did.
Hoyle or Hoyle?
H O Y L E. There it is.
Okay, see that little graph on the second row?
Second row.
Far right?
Far right.
Yeah, that's Comet Halley.
They also did it to other places.
Okay.
Okay.
Is that, I can't quite see.
But the other ones, what they did is they tested the spectra.
From interstellar clouds, and they match E. coli, among other things.
Bacteria.
Exactly.
So you've got the spectra there of bacteria laying upon the spectra.
There you go.
The prediction for bacteria.
And then the light that they see from these giant clouds.
Well, what of odds that it matches?
So then they said, that's life.
And then people all of a sudden, well, you can't have life in space.
No, man, no, We're not talking about.
little there are huge classes and we discover more and more of microorganisms that have the ability to survive incredible conditions, extremophiles.
First of all, why the hell would evolution endow them with the ability to survive the vacuum of space and radiation, et cetera, and so forth?
But they go into hibernation.
Not only that, so they could be out there in a just add water and warmth environment.
And it would come back.
But I could take even further.
So that's way out there in interstellar space, and maybe you have grains of life out there, which is unbelievable enough and not accepted.
But Chandra maintains that it's everywhere in space, okay?
That it is coming in every day, all the time.
And here's how that if you're a spec and that Comet Halley, for instance, that all comets are seething, boiling viral containers, that they're absolutely full of life.
And then, as they shed dust particles, which float into the atmosphere all the time, and that's all well accepted, little particles, always dust coming in from comets, that within those dust particles, that's how the life is protected, right?
Now, it's not living necessarily at the moment, but the dust particle is, I don't know, 100,000 times larger, let's say, literally on those scales, than a virus.
And that viruses are raining down on the Earth constantly.
And the evolution, Darwinian evolution, is certainly a big factor and a starting point, but that evolution has been guided by transmissions of outside molecular DNA from space, which is coming in all the time.
And in fact, most viral outbreaks are the result, the 1918 Spanish influenza.
People were infected in Boston on the same day as Bombay.
Well, they didn't have jets back then.
Really?
Yeah.
You can't shake hands that fast.
All right.
That there are all sorts of things like that.
Right.
And they wrote paper after paper in nature, and none of them were adequately refuted, but it was never accepted that life is absolutely omnipotent.
You can't get away from it.
I'll give you a great example.
The Russians, I'll give you a good one here so you can get right to it.
Cosmic Tusk ISS, like International Space Station, plankton.
Cosmic Tusk, which is my website.
The Russians took, you'd think they'd have a different kind of specialty tool, but a tampon, and swiped that big tourist window on the space station.
They've got like a big round one where they can kind of hang out and look down at the Earth and stuff.
There you go.
Microbes entombed in cosmic dust collected from outside surface of the space station window.
They swiped it, I think, 10 times in six years.
I forget the exact numbers.
Every one of them came back with the scum on the outside of the windshield diatoms, the little.
That this stuff is raining down more or less constantly.
I'm not sure why I put tardigrades in there.
But that was an incredible paper.
The Russians published this paper that said that we went and tested their scum outside the space station that is clearly life and it's not contaminated.
They were very careful with it and whatnot, right?
And what are their choices then?
Either it came up with, and all of them are incredible.
Chandra published 75 papers in Nature with Sir Fred Hoyle in the 70s and 80s.
That's right.
Saying.
Saying all this ubiquitous microbes in cosmic dust would ultimately be remember that that particle of dust is orders of magnitude larger than the life particle, so it makes a great little spaceship.
Think about a spaceship you're that tiny little virus, and you've got this gigantic dust particle that's plenty to protect you, right?
But then you come into the atmosphere, that stuff flakes off, then it's a free roaming virus, and it reverse RNAs its way, you know, I guess that's what you call it, um, into.
The evolutionary stream.
And that's why we get dramatic jumps like the Cambrian explosion, where all of a sudden we went from X number of life forms to 10X number of life forms, right?
And things like the octopus came along.
And this gets to what you're saying these water worlds.
What Chandra would tell you is that everything we see here had an origin somewhere else, DNA wise, right?
So you see that crazy looking jellyfish, and you say, how the hell did a baboon.
And a jellyfish.
Right.
Both, and all of us wonder that.
And what they do is the same thing with geology.
They say, well, just give it a lot of time.
That makes a lot of sense.
Just, wow.
Yeah, just give it five billion years and we trust us.
You can get a jellyfish on one side and a baboon on the other.
And you can't really refute that.
Okay, I guess enough time, anything can happen.
Makes a hell of a lot more sense to me that there is a damn jellyfish world out there and there is a baboon world out there and there is a spider world out there.
And there's some that are spider heavy and have some baboons, and maybe there's some that baboon, you know, that, that, and we're a zoo.
We're a zoo of life, not necessarily a unique one by any means, but some planets might be tilted more towards one kind of thing.
It might be more insectian, another one might be more mammals, and so on and so forth.
And that soup is constantly coming in.
Wow.
And, and, and, you know, here's the greatest thing about that paper.
Okay, so then the Russians, and I kept looking, somehow I missed it, but I'm like, God, this is going to make worldwide news.
We've Finally, discovered life in space.
And because it was reported plankton found on outside a space station, and then nothing.
Crickets, just like always, on the really important stuff.
Then I found out subsequently it took a few years.
They published a paper in 2018 where they said, We've only got two choices here.
The Russians did.
They said either it came from above or it came from below.
They did not think it was contaminated at launch, right?
That it wouldn't have stayed, that scum wouldn't have.
The thing was inside the space station window, it was launched years ago anyway, right?
And it's already been going, whatever.
So it didn't.
Then it wasn't on launch.
So they said an as yet unidentified mechanism must be whipping, say, the diatoms were traced to the Barents Sea.
It had the same kind of diatom you find in the Barents Sea up in the Northern Hemisphere.
They said the ocean waves must whip it into the air, and then some kind of yet to be fully explained electromagnetic force lifted it 400 kilometers out into space from the Barents Sea, and that's why you find it out there.
It came from above and life is absolutely fucking everywhere.
And they hedged and they kind of went with the other explanation that it came, that there's some mechanism.
Well, first of all, if that mechanism is true, it means life's everywhere.
It means we're seeding life.
It means panspermia is true either way.
Either we're sending it out and other people could catch it or it's coming down and we're getting it.
But then it gets even cooler.
Then the lead author of the paper that hedged, little noticed but very serious paper, all these people had access to shit from the space station.
These are not pajama scientists.
They're Russian, serious Russian scientists with access to very special materials.
They hedged.
Then TV Grabenikova, one of the lead authors, after the hedged paper, immediately published another paper with Chandra and the Panspermis crowd and said basically bullshit.
I don't believe it.
I think it came from above.
It's the only reasonable answer.
So she switched teams.
She went from the neutral team to Chandra's team.
And Chandra's coming to Greensboro.
Next month.
And he, you know, he's, I think he's 85 years old.
And I felt bad about it.
I was like, Chandra, do you really want to make this trip, man?
Because we can have you virtual.
And he's such a cool dude, man.
He's like, I wouldn't miss it for the world.
So he's going to give the keynote at the Cosmic Summit, actually.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, it would make sense that, you know, we're a planet that's packed with life.
Why wouldn't we have just tons of microscopic life and bacteria surrounding us?
Yeah.
Right.
Like coming, I mean, not coming from other places, coming from us.
Like, right?
If we're this big ball of life, why wouldn't we have little bits of microscopic organic material just floating around the outer atmosphere where the space station is?
Or at least during, and this is mainstream starting to accept this, at least during impacts when things are kicked into orbit.
Right.
It would shoot stuff out that way.
Yes.
I would be curious to see if we've ever, you know, has any research like this been done from any of the rovers or any of the things we've sent to Mars?
Oh, yeah.
We tested for life.
And we found it in 1977, the Viking lander.
You know, that Dr. Levin, Gavin Levin, what is his name?
The principal investigator, the head guy for testing life when we landed the Viking landers, published a thing.
He's been saying it for 40 years, but he just published in Scientific American about two or three years ago and said, Listen, damn it, I ran the life test and we found life.
There is a certain resistance in the field of astrobiology, in my view, is the most fucked up discipline on Earth.
It is the most self defeating, timid bunch of bullshitters that ever were.
They'll never address this stuff.
They'll only go so far.
They're only looking for building blocks.
And then we never test it again.
There has not been a direct life detection instrument aboard any rover since.
They can only test for the building blocks.
Because it was ruled out.
Rover Life Detection Limits00:17:28
You know, and here's a good one Bill Clinton held a press conference in the Rose Garden and said, We found life on Mars.
Did you know that?
I did not know that.
Google that one, Steve, because that's on YouTube.
What conference?
Bill Clinton, Life on Mars.
Bill Clinton, Life on Mars, yeah.
What year did he say that?
Probably 97 or 96.
I think it was 96, right here.
A group of scientists found feet.
Oh, you don't see it.
A group of scientists found features of likeness of microscopic fossils of bacteria in a meteorite.
Oh, no, that's not it.
That's it.
That's it.
Is it a meteorite?
Suggesting that these organisms also originated on Mars.
The claims immediately made headlines worldwide, culminating in the U.S. President Bill Clinton giving a speech about it.
We did the We Discovered Life on Another Planet speech.
Hell, the president gave it.
Right.
You can go hit videos and it'll come up.
And you say, Bill Clinton says it's a monumental day we found life on Mars.
Oh, you're there.
Look at that.
I mean, this is not a conspiracy theory.
The damn president said it.
It's a travesty.
It's a sociological travesty that somehow the bureaucracies cannot get past the pursuit of the supposed pursuit of life and go ahead and say, we found it 100 different ways.
There have been all sorts of stuff, seems, in meteorites that suggest life.
But it's the bar.
They'll move the goalpost to beyond whatever they did.
And they beat the hell out of the scientists who brought it to the president.
And they ended up, Richard Hoover and those guys, had that they told him to shut the fuck up about it, that they were probably wrong.
It could be other things.
Because you see on those, in that meteorite, you see these little things that look biological.
And they come up with any other explanation that would be just as a.
It's like discovering life is.
You know, the old thing that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence?
That is the most harmful statement in the history of modern science.
Carl Sagan.
Throw ashes on his damn grave.
I mean, he said that, and that has now become the go to place.
No, no, you don't need extraordinary evidence for an extraordinary claim.
You need evidence.
There's evidence, is evidence, is evidence.
It doesn't need to be any more extraordinary just because of the claim.
Now, you're going to have to run it down.
You're going to have to double check.
So now you bring forward any evidence, and they say, well, that's just not extraordinary enough.
Right.
You know?
So, I don't know.
I'm getting into kind of my pet peeves here, and I don't want to get like Graham get all angry at them.
But yeah, there's something going on out there where we just can't break through to the truth that's self evident before us.
So, now transitioning a little bit.
So, a couple of months ago, we had Randall in here.
We did a couple of podcasts with him.
One of the podcasts he did, he dedicated specifically to this crazy new energy thunderstorm generator machine that this wild character, Malcolm Bendall, came up with.
And Randall was kind of explaining it.
He didn't really fully understand how it works.
We couldn't do a great job, self admittedly, didn't do a great job explaining mechanistically and scientifically how it worked.
But he did a great job of explaining how it relates to sacred geometry and all this stuff.
And he showed us videos.
Of people holding these carbon measuring devices behind the exhaust of an engine it was hooked up to, like a power washer type engine it was hooked up to.
Exactly.
The exhaust contained, like, it was essentially the same oxygen that we breathe every day in the atmosphere.
And this guy, is he going to be at the Cosmic Summit event?
He is.
I spoke with him yesterday, unless I debunk the device.
And I have two of them now in my own possession in a secret laboratory in Raleigh, North Carolina.
And it's a long, crazy story.
So I first met the amazing Malcolm Bendel with Randall when we went down for them to record on Joe Rogan.
So Brad, one of Randall's guys, called me and said, Hey, you want to drive him down there?
I said, Hell yeah, I'll drive him down there.
So I rented a big Cadillac and said, And me and Randall got into it and said, Well, let's make it fun and make it a field trip.
Let's go see some Indian mounds and shit like that.
That you know, on the way down and come back yeah, and so I ran this big catalog.
I got down there and there there was this little bald man from Tasmania and I said, is he coming?
Is he going on the show with you?
He says yeah, we'll bring him on the show.
I said well god, I mean this guy's controversial, but this should be interesting road trip.
So I get in the car and he starts talking, you know, and I I actually had 10 years experience, believe it or not, with a cold fusion company that i'm arm's length from but kind of had a front row seat on some serious cold fusion research, Mainstream cold fusion, if you will.
So I was particularly skeptical of that someone had made a device that exploited, you know.
Can you explain cold fusion?
Yeah, well, cold fusion is a catch all term for the ability to fuse, transmute, and make atomic changes under rather prosaic conditions, normal temperatures, normal that you're changing things.
And exploiting and potentially deriving energy from atomic mechanisms without the traditional approaches, right?
Like nuclear reactors, and you don't have radiation.
And that was from 1989.
A couple of electrochemists at the University of Utah remember it very well.
I was just getting out of college.
I thought there's going to be a wonderful new world in front of us.
Came out and said, We got lightning in a bottle.
There'll be endless energy for all.
It was on the cover of every magazine, front news on every major.
National newscast, and it was like, Holy shit, this is the big breakthrough!
Great, I'm just getting out of college and everything will be different.
The president appointed a panel to look into their claims, and six weeks later, they came back and said, Nope, didn't happen.
Those two men were hounded out of the United States, they suffered every indignity that a top scientist, which they were, could possibly study because of the inability supposedly to replicate their findings.
And that has been well debunked that it wasn't replicated.
MIT, in fact, not only replicated it, but then covered up the replication, claimed they didn't do it, and helped fuel the lynch mob that came after Ponson Fleischmann.
So that was the beginning of modern cold fusion.
Tesla was onto it too.
And Malcolm Bendahl will give everyone credit back there to his credit.
He said, I'm a rediscoverer that he can name a dozen people in the 20th century that had the magic.
And a lot of them, it didn't end well.
Including Tesla.
So he gives them credit.
He also believes the ancients had it.
So he's a rediscoverer.
Okay, so I get in the car with him and I said, Well, I can't call bullshit on the guy on a five day car trip.
I mean, that's just going to get really awkward.
So I'm just going to be as open minded as you can get and just, yep, tell me more, you know, blah, blah, blah.
And he told the craziest series of tales on the way down to Austin over two days I have ever heard in my life.
I mean, assassinations and revolutions involved in the Nicaraguan Revolution and Putin dating his girlfriend.
And he hung out with the top scientist in China, the golden brain of China.
And he was smuggling Bibles into China.
I mean, these crazy tales.
And I didn't really explicitly think it, but I figured, well, they're going to go on to Rogan.
They will talk about this technology.
And this guy's got apparently this interesting life.
And then he went on Rogan, man, and said everything he'd said in the car.
And it was so wild in the car that, first of all, me and Brad Young, one of Randall's guys, we went into Bucky's restroom, you know, and in there, and people were looking at each other saying, were we safe with this guy?
This is the craziest I've ever heard in my life.
This is for real.
And he goes on Rogan, says absolutely everything he said, wouldn't get the technology, as Randall will tell you.
It was frustrating the hell out of that, wouldn't stick to the thing he had to tell all, because that's Malcolm.
If he walked in the door now, never met in his life, he would launch into these stories.
And it's all to To protect him from the evil forces that are out to get him, he is trying to reveal all now to the world, is the way the story goes.
So he says, All on Rogan and Joe made a call.
Joe and Jamie did, totally justifiable call.
They said, You know, we got tens of millions of listeners.
This guy could go out and do a penny stock.
We don't know whether it's true.
There's some sketchy articles about the guy from 20 years ago in Australia.
Now, those articles don't have any good conclusions.
There were never any charges.
And to me, they look like setups, frankly.
If you were going to do a setup to smear a guy, that's the stuff you would do, where no charges come, but you.
What was the premise of the articles that came out against him?
That he lost money in the oil business as an independent.
Can you find this, Steve?
They're harder to find now, which is kind of weird.
It used to be the first stuff that Steve picked up.
But try it, Steve.
You'll still be able to find it.
Malcolm Bendall and Blonde Babe with Long Legs.
Because, you know, Malcolm, a good picture of him with this.
And the idea is that these oil companies basically drew up hit pieces on him.
And there is a context of truth to that.
That's what he claims.
Yeah.
And, In 2003, I believe it was, Shell Oil was revealed to have claimed an oil field called Gorgon, what a cool name, north of Australia.
And I think it accounted for something like 30% of their global reserves.
And then it was called bullshit upon, and the board of Shell had to resign.
It was a big scandal.
They had totally falsified this stuff.
Malcolm says that was him that blew the whistle because he had an oil lease in Tasmania.
That they were trying to get.
He was pissed off at them, knew enough about oil, and said, These guys don't have it.
So that's how he got back at them for coming after him in Tasmania.
How did he get into the oil business?
I don't know.
Tasmania is kind of an odd place because there's not supposed to be any oil in Tasmania, but he is.
I know he knows his petroleum geology, man.
We went through Houston on the way back and happened to go to this ranch that has a whole bunch of ice age fossils on it that have been hidden from the public.
Whole other story.
And we go see the hidden fossils and stuff.
And a guy was with us who had discovered him.
And he was, in his day job, a petroleum geologist, you know, 30, 40 years and studied salt domes, which is where you find oil oftentimes, big subterranean deposits of salt.
And Malcolm was able to talk with him as a peer about that stuff.
And there is a great published paper that Malcolm led on.
Petroleum geology.
He knows this petroleum geology.
He was clearly in the oil business.
So he kind of gets smeared, or maybe it's true.
But he owned a mine, an oil mine?
No, no, no.
He owned a lease on oil, which means that if you go and drill it and take the oil out, you can sell it and you pay the government a royalty.
But nobody can drill for oil unless the government has leased it to you.
Same thing here.
You have to, or yeah, the government has to sanction your ability to do so.
Okay.
Particularly on public lands.
Okay.
So it's 2003.
So all these kind of things happen.
Okay.
But back to Rogan.
So they obviously saw those articles probably during the podcast.
Jamie called them up, put them in front of Joe.
I do not know the specifics.
And for very justifiably, Rogan made the call we're either going to have to heavily edit this, is the way Randall told me they put it, or we might not show it.
And it ended up being what I call the no show Joe show.
Where he didn't show it.
And I can't blame Rogan because he didn't have time to dig into Malcolm.
The guy's walking off the set.
You find sketchy stuff about him, and he could go do a penny stock and take advantage of your millions of listeners, right?
And Rogan doesn't want to be responsible for that.
It has commercial implications.
If you have Bob Lazar on, he's not going to walk out of the studio and get money out of somebody, even though he says crazy, insane stories.
But Malcolm could.
It has commercial implications.
So they made the decision not to show it just fine.
But then we drove back, got to know the guy better.
And so we got on this five-day trip.
And then I get home and it's Monday, the day after I got back.
And you know, when you go on a man trip with a bunch of guys and you've been together for four days, you don't want to hear from those fuckers for weeks.
You know what I mean?
Maybe send an old picture or something from the trip.
The guy calls me up, Malcolm.
He goes, George, it's Malcolm.
I'm like, Malcolm?
Oh, God.
You know, and we start talking and we start talking damn near every day.
And as he's done with a lot of people, which is interesting because he's just trying to get his stuff out there.
Long story short, that summer, last summer in August, I get a heads up that he's going to go to Albuquerque and show one of these machines.
And I've been trying to get one from him to get tested in Raleigh.
And it had been promised and not delivered and promised and not delivered.
And that kind of seemed a little sketchy to me.
But then he says, I'm going to go publicly demonstrate one in Albuquerque.
So I fly out to Albuquerque.
Actually, didn't tell Malcolm I was coming.
I got there right as he turned it on at 9 o'clock.
On Friday night at this conference called Tesla Tech, where it's a bunch of old Tesla guys.
And this is in Albuquerque, New Mexico.
So these guys are all aerospace people, retired aerospace propulsion engineering types, right?
Walking around in Hawaii shirts with flip flops on, but with PhDs, you know, and are into Tesla.
So he thought that was a great group.
If anybody should see the realization of Tesla's technology first, it should be these types.
So he shows it.
I see the thing running.
They're sticking this probe in it.
And there was no pollution from it.
So I said, Well, that's a hell of a magic trick.
That's pretty cool.
And I got up next morning.
I said, What the hell did I see last night?
Last night.
I'm getting the elevator, get down to the lobby.
And there's Malcolm.
And he says, Come, George, meet the team, meet the team.
And the team are the people who put the device, like you said, a damn power washer.
So it's a basic generator that you would get from Lowe's or Home Depot.
Then there is a series of parts which are connected to it, all of which you can purchase at Lowe's and Home Depot.
The material cost of the entire thing is not $1,400, $1,500.
There is one piece that is the thunderstorm generator that has to be.
Very specially welded, but it doesn't even have any moving parts.
It's just a swirl guide, basically.
Okay.
So Malcolm brings that part with him, but you've got to build the rest.
The people who were the team had never met him, but they constructed it and put all the parts together and ran around and bought them.
So you can build it on site and it runs.
And then we tested, all these people stayed around three, four days after the conference.
We kept testing it and testing it and testing it.
A fella came down that works at Los Alamos on his own time, brought his own equipment, a PhD physicist.
Hooked it up to the machine and got no pollution results again.
So everybody's like, well, where the hell is the carbon going in this thing?
There's no carbon monoxide, very little carbon dioxide, sometimes none, and no free hydrocarbons.
And how is it fooling the equipment?
What the hell is going on here?
And then I actually talked to Malcolm and I said, I've got some people in Raleigh that can test this.
May I have the machine?
So I canceled my flight home, got a Penske van, threw it in the back of the van, and drove all the way back to Raleigh on I 40 with no stoplights.
It stayed like a night in Arkansas and took this thing back to Raleigh, gave it to some very specially equipped friends, and we tested the hell out of it for 14 days, and everything worked.
And we had some very, very smart people.
And what were you using to measure the carbon emissions coming out of it?
We ran five different devices by it, including one that we borrowed from the Research Triangle Institute, a think tank like.
They weren't hacked.
All of them cost five grand plus.
I've actually learned we got the Wallers, we got the Canes.
They're just these things that test emissions.
But you got your own.
You didn't just use Malcolm's.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
And in fact, at one time, we had more equipment hooked up to the machine in bulk than the machine itself.
I mean, it looked like a patient in ICU, you know, so much shit coming off of it.
Long story short, Malcolm and them finally got out of town, and they were going to further do some defensive tests of it.
Where you go and do tests that if people are saying, Hey, you're missing this, you're missing that, you can say, Nope, we checked on that, checked on this.
Recent Engine Tests00:04:06
There's Johanna.
And the damn thing broke.
So they weren't able to finish those tests.
So Zen's zipping ahead.
Then I hear he's going to Zurich, Switzerland.
So I said, Well, I'll go do another one of those.
So we go to Zurich, and that same team came together.
None of these people met Malcolm before Albuquerque.
So they're not his employees or his bitches or whatever.
But we're following him around.
Let's see the trick again.
And we showed it off to 400 damn German and Swiss engineers at another kind of a European Tesla tech.
These are smart people, not to be fooled.
And everybody was flabbergasted.
Okay.
Then we did it again in India.
And then by that time, I had spent hours and hours and hours around this machine to wrap it up.
Now I finally got two of them myself on the basis of demonstrating it again properly.
Every time we demonstrated it, it was slashed at, thrown together, wasn't recorded correctly.
It just, Wasn't ideal by far, and I can't get to ideal, but I am holding this conference, the Cosmic Summit.
I said, I will make this a component of the Cosmic Summit as long as I cannot debunk it between when I get the machines.
If it is still a mystery to me, I am happy to bring to the public a mystery, right?
But I'm not going to bring something that I have serious questions about.
So I have two of these now in Raleigh.
And as we speak, they are being tested by another group.
And we're going to get to the bottom of this.
So, what kind of tests can you do to debunk it other than test the emissions?
I don't want to get into specifics.
You need to pay attention to airflow.
And are you catching every bit of air that's come out of that thing?
I'll leave it at that.
But I have stuck my face here.
I'll show you some of the recent tests.
Here.
If you could switch over to me, Steve.
There you go.
Let me guess.
Don't keep secrets.
Okay.
That's a buddy of mine.
It's like they came.
I want to find the one where I have three friends come.
And do what I think is the most interesting test that anybody can do.
You stick your face in front of the exhaust pipe and take a big huff through your nose, which is a fantastic aromatic hydrocarbon detector, right?
You don't smell fumes.
You just don't.
We've had it running indoors.
Bob Grinier over in London, him and Johanna, they had it running indoors for something like six hours with carbon monoxide meters on.
Right?
And here, I won't show any of these.
Well, I'll send you one for later, Steve.
So we have a mystery on our hands.
It is a magic trick or it is the truth.
And it's a good magic trick because it can be conducted remotely.
The tests I am doing now that have been actually the most successful of all, we're able to get the carbon dioxide.
The first time we ran it a couple of weeks ago, we were able to get it down to 0.2 of the exhaust.
Regular carbon dioxide in a running engine like that is somewhere between like eight and 10.
So that's a couple hundred times less.
Okay.
Right.
It's a fraction of it.
The carbon monoxide always disappears, and the free hydrocarbons always go down to like 25 parts per million where they would normally be 25,000.
We've like stuck the probe in a guy's motorcycle tailpipe and said, okay, yeah, this is working and this shows what motorcycles generally do.
And you take it over and stick it in this thing, and it all disappears.
Right.
So We're going to get to the bottom of it.
Where do you think the carbon is going?
That is the question, Danny.
And that's what everybody asks.
They're like, if this is a magic trick, where's he hiding the pee?
You know, where's the hidden rubber ball that's cupped in the hand, you know?
Right, right.
And there could be such a thing.
And the implications are so large that you really got to be sure.
Suppressed Discovery Contracts00:03:18
And I got no interest in defrauding, misleading, or anything like that.
But I am interested in mysteries.
Test the hell out of it at the Cosmic Summit.
Not only that, why hasn't some big energy company or some big government organization tried to pay Malcolm or buy this from him?
He says, and this is an interesting thing, that it's kind of like UFOs, that on the other side of the veil, and you're more familiar with this stuff than I am, on the other side of the veil, they're good guys and they're bad guys, and they've been keeping the secrets now for four generations.
They've been keeping it for 70 years.
It's just getting a little old, playing whack a mole.
And you used to go around pre internet, and if somebody came on to this stuff that they presumably already had, they suppressed it and suppressed them.
The famous story being of the guy who had the water running car.
Yeah, what was that story again?
again?
Stanley Meyer.
Stanley Meyer claimed to have the car that ran on water.
He'd go on good morning, not good morning, America.
That's incredible.
And stuff like that back in the 80s.
I remember seeing it.
And then in the 90s, there were lawsuits against him and all this stuff.
But he was with two Belgian businessmen at the cracker barrel having a breakfast meeting.
And he took a sip of his cranberry juice, leapt from the table, ran for the door, screamed, I've been poisoned, and fell dead.
And the two Belgian businessmen were never identified.
I mean, wild stuff.
At a cracker barrel.
Yeah, at a cracker barrel.
This is the same right here.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Go to that picture.
So he was able to run this car off water?
Basically.
And it still seems a little, I mean, it just seems so rinky dink.
But so does some of the stuff we're doing, it's rinky dink.
I mean, maybe things generally come from the bottom.
And I'll give you an example of that.
And they stay secret.
It's hard to prove things.
But when you, a lot of people ask, like Johanna James asked on one of the early calls with the speaker.
When I was saying, hey, I might bring this thing, y'all got problems with that.
She said, can't we just wait till Toyota puts out a report?
And you kind of feel that way, but it ain't that simple as it turns out.
And I've actually seen this.
They had a large, on the tip of everyone's tongue, auto manufacturer, I won't say who it is, that was to test it in Italy, in Turin, Italy, with another big industrial group.
And they were sending us pictures.
This was last spring after Rogan, but before we tested it in Raleigh.
And We were excited.
So, well, hell, then you've got a big, most sophisticated engine facility, testing facility in Europe has got it, and we're getting pictures, and there it is set up in the clean room or whatever.
And then we hear from him one day, his kind of inner inner circle, and the people who actually finance him get back and they say, oh no, the companies changed the contract at the last minute, and we felt it clearly threatened the intellectual property, like it would be theirs if you tested it there.
And I said, that sounds like bullshit.
Just, you know, if somebody was to con you, they'd build you all up and then, you know, just to stall for time, like, and then say, ah, well, sorry, it fell apart.
They tried to steal it.
Clean Room Testing Facility00:06:34
And you're like, what the?
You were talking about this for three months.
What do you mean they tried to steal it?
But I actually saw the contract.
And then I read the track changes that you follow where the lawyers are going back and forth.
Right.
And at the end, they tried to steal it.
It was like anything tested in here.
It didn't say exactly that, but anything tested in here, you know, discovered shall be our discovery and blah, blah, blah, or something like that, where you're like, Well, I'm going to get it out of there.
So, they had spent a couple of hundred grand apparently teeing up for this thing, and then they dismantled everything, got it out of there.
Wow.
So, you can't, so it's kind of up to rednecks like me, I guess.
Although I'm taking it up another level, I'm in touch.
I mean, I know how things are to be done right, and it's certainly not with me, but I'm trying to test it myself so I don't trouble a major organization that I do have ready to test it.
But I've got some things that I want to do, and I have a guy up there doing it as we speak to make sure I'm not troubling that major organization.
But if I can't figure it out in the next week or two, I hope to get it to the major organization.
Hopefully, we can get the mystery confirmed or debunked prior to the summit.
If the mystery is still a mystery, then we're going to run the thing on and off for three days, and they are going to lecture the whole time.
It's going to be a sidebar to the Cosmic Summit.
You've got 27 speakers over two days, then you have a classroom day.
So we're going to run it.
And if people want to just leave the auditorium and go see the machine or go talk to Malcolm or listen to his mini lectures over the weekend, they can.
But then we have Bob Grenier, Jordan Collin, and Malcolm speaking just like the other speakers, but we put them in a row.
So that's each gets an hour.
So that's three hours on Saturday.
But then on Monday, Malcolm has a classroom.
Randall has a classroom.
Scott Walter from America on Earth has a classroom.
It would be a good guest.
And Malcolm has a classroom.
So if you're really into one of those guys, you can go hear from them all day on Monday.
Wow.
Right.
And those are separate tickets.
Okay.
Yeah, we got a whole bunch of different ticket types.
You don't have to commit to three days to go to the summit.
You can come for Saturday, you can come for Sunday, you can come for just classroom day.
He can come with no food, no parties, and we've got the price down to $435 for the whole weekend.
Okay.
Right?
If you use promo code COSMIC50, get it for $435.
Otherwise, it's $485.
And then the classroom day tickets, I think, are $250.
But, and it sounds like I'm sitting here, I'm out to make money on all this crazy stuff.
Well, I'm certainly not.
I just sold my company.
I've never been more financially better off.
I do not need to work on the Cosmic Summit.
10 hours a day, like I do.
But it has to be, in my view, it has to be a for profit operation because that keeps accountability.
Well, it's accountable.
I'm accounting for it because I'm at least six figures out right now.
Well, it's incredible what you're doing, bringing all these people together.
Thank you, buddy.
I appreciate it.
Bringing all these great minds together.
It's fascinating, man.
And the amount of stuff people can learn from all these geniuses you're flying in from all over the world is astonishing.
It's a great bunch.
Can we afford to have you?
The expense is killing me.
Is it still okay with mama for you to come?
Yeah, I'm going to try to make it out for sure.
100%.
Yeah, I think me and Steve are going to try to make it out for a day.
That's terrific, man.
Yeah.
We so much look forward to seeing you.
I look forward to hearing some of these people talk, man.
It's a great thing what you're doing.
Where can people go to your website to go here and sign up?
Yeah, cosmetsummit.com.
Okay.
And that's just kind of our lead crew, our marquee.
And you know, you got Robert Schock in there.
We just signed him on about six weeks ago.
Tremendous guy.
But then we got a cast of characters that, believe it or not, are just as interesting as the big guys, but you just hadn't heard of them yet.
You could hit the and Praveen Mohan.
I talked to Praveen this morning.
If you hadn't caught on to that guy, he is fantastic, man.
He is, uh, I guess you could say the Randall Carlson of India.
And, uh, yeah, he and I was laughing with him this morning.
I said, You could live a hundred lifetimes, Praveen, and never fully cover your country.
It's so endless the mysteries.
And Praveen is coming to Greensboro.
We've got the snakes coming.
Dr. Collins, who's the Tallahalla mom, um, dig guy.
Okay.
So Christian archaeologist.
Haley Ramsey, who is a wise, wise woman.
Um, In the esoteric traditions of the West.
Tim Hogan, the number one Templar Freemason in the world.
Wow.
Yeah.
Hogan's a big deal.
He really should be.
I mean, he's so modest he uncomplained about not being on the banner, but he should be.
Randy Daniel, who is a run of the mill, not run of the mill, but he's a mainstream archaeologist, but has seen evidence for the Younger Dryas impact and is part of the Comet Research Group, but does not believe in Atlantis.
And he is going to say so, right?
Because you don't all have to agree.
Joanne Ballard, She is a mainstream PhD that has found evidence for the Younger Dryas event, but does believe in Atlantis, I believe.
Bob Grinier, Jordan Collin.
These are fascinating people.
Fascinating people.
But what we're trying to do, Danny, and I won't go on too much longer with this commercial stuff.
The point of it all to me is that a lot of us, a lot of your audience, people like me, pajama scientists, and just curious unconventional history fans sit around till our eyes bleed watching YouTube at 11 30 at night after the family's in bed and you're sitting down there freaking out on stuff and interested as hell.
It's like we're all listening to music, but it's all downloads.
And there's no festival.
There's not a place to go see the band.
Well, you can listen to music and get about everything out of it, but for some reason, we still want to go see the bands and we want to gather together with the other deadheads or the other panic crowd.
Yeah, man.
Whomever it is, you're people.
So we've got a community of people that have shared interests.
And believe me, they come from every background, socioeconomic, racial, everything.
It's an extremely diverse crowd.
It's interesting.
Eight to 80 blind, crippled, or crazy is what my mom used to say.
And.
And but you can sit around and talk about the black mat with them and stuff.
We need a community home, so that's what the Cosmic Summit is to bring together people like that at least once a year so we can all hang out.
So that's the point, man.
It's beautiful, man.
Thank you, bro.
A new dawn of an old age, damn right.
I'll link it below if you guys want to check it out.