Danny Sheehan details his legal battles for UFO disclosure, citing a 2023 Senate bill and credible witness testimony regarding non-human spacecraft. He exposes alleged CIA disinformation campaigns, including the Paul Benowitz case, and connects historical events like the Cuban Missile Crisis to a broader conspiracy involving the S Force assassination team and corporate greed. Sheehan argues that the national security state functions as a fascist entity prioritizing military dominance over truth, urging citizens to oppose this apparatus before protocols for extraterrestrial relations are established. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, WAV2VEC2_ASR_BASE_960H, sat-12l-sm, script v26.04.01, and large-v3-turbo
Time
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John Mack Documentary Origins00:14:51
The first time I learned about you was when I was watching a John Mack documentary.
Oh, far out.
Yeah.
And you were talking about John and you had a lot of interesting things to say.
And I thought that you'd be a fascinating person to talk to.
So I'm glad you're finally here.
Yeah, I've gotten only more fascinating since then.
That's when Lou Elizondo retained me.
And then we get to do the help with the legislation.
And I mean, things are really hot right now.
Things are very hot right now, and you're being very outspoken.
Why have you all of a sudden decided to start doing podcasts?
Well, because once we got the attention of Congress, you know, the Congress pays attention to people around the country when they start knowing about stuff.
And so, our people now, what we've put together, the New Paradigm Institute, to actually mobilize people, to educate people, to get them past the supposition that, well, somebody says they're there, you can't really tell, they don't ever have any real pictures of them.
You know, they got buzzed over the December 2017 videos, you know, that Lou Elizondo and Chris Mellon brought to the New York Times.
And they're going, whoa, okay, then they've seen those 100 times.
You know, but the fact is there's a lot more, a lot more information in firsthand witnesses that are extraordinarily credible.
They're deep insiders that have been coming to the Senate Intelligence Committee now and testifying under oath, you know, and giving them documented proof and other references to corroborate what they're saying.
I mean, you know, it's rolling.
Right now.
And so we all, the people put together the Senate Intelligence Committee and the Senate Armed Services Committee staff, you know, Armed Services Committee under Jack Reed and the Intelligence Committee on the Senate side, you know, under Mark Warner, who's the chairman, and also Marco Rubio.
Marco Rubio, you know, they've all been on board this thing and they crafted this 64 page bill.
It was just like comprehensive in how we would go about undertaking a really responsible, measured, controlled disclosure.
Of all of this information, giving the president ultimate authority to recommend that a certain piece be, if he said one piece of information, to be postponed from immediate public release.
But he has to give reasons and he has to have a written report on why he's doing that.
And there can be a classified portion of it that he can provide to the Intelligence Committee.
But there also has to be a public document acknowledging that he's withheld a particular piece of information and explain why he's doing it.
So it was a really comprehensive bill that was put together.
By people who were definitely in favor of disclosing virtually everything that's more than 25 years old, which is the kind of a standard rule for even intelligence information, as long as you don't disclose anybody's particular identity, et cetera.
So we got into the bill that presumably everything that's 25 years old or more, going all the way back to January of 1945, has to be revealed to the public.
And we set up a time schedule for it.
You know, they got 300 days to gather everything all together and put it into digital form with an outline and have it be retrievable, computer retrievable.
And then they had to turn it over to the National Archives.
And then the National Archives was directed by Congress to, within 180 days, release it all to the public, you know, unless the president personally intervened and made a provision for a particular piece of information to be postponed.
It was really comprehensive.
And there was a nine person board.
That was put together to review all this permanently with staff, had a $20 million budget, you know, to put together all the information and to comb through it.
And we were one of the groups that was to nominate people to that board.
That our new paradigm institute was the citizens group that was to be nominating people for the president to appoint to this board.
And, you know, it was the majority and minority leader of the Senate, the majority and minority leader of the House of Representatives, the Secretary of Defense, the head of the National Archives, and us as the citizens group that we referred to as the UAP Disclosure Foundation.
That's one of our domains.
But it's the New Paradigm Institute.
That's set up as a 501c3.
It's a wholly integrated project of our 40 year 501c3.
You know, did the Iran Contra case, did the Karen Silkwood case, you know, I did the Pentagon Papers case for the New York Times, all that stuff.
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You know, we did all that through the 501c3.
And so we've set up a full project under our 501c3 tax exempt organization to act as the citizens' watchdog on this process so that we're in Washington, D.C. We're the only civilian. Office right within the federal enclave on Capitol Hill, with all the Senate and House buildings in the United States Supreme Court and the Congress building.
We're right there.
So we can have regular meetings with the staff.
We have lunch with the staff, you know, and are going through the details of what was in the bill.
And when it went over to the House side, you know, we knew, for example, that there was a 17 to 0 vote in favor of the 64 page bill in the Senate Intelligence Committee.
All eight Republican senators, all nine Democratic senators.
You know, we had all the major heads of all the committees in charge of it.
And it passed overwhelmingly in the Senate.
And we sent it over to the House side.
And it had, of the 435 members, you know, like 420 of them, you know, were instantaneously supportive of the whole 64 page bill.
And it was actually called the UFO Controlled Disclosure Campaign Plan.
I mean, it was a full scale mandate from Congress.
That there be a plan put in place to disclose all of this information, and it had a seven-year period that was covered, so that we had a seven-year period within which to disclose all of it, but there was a 300-day period that they had to gather up all of the information that's 25 years old or more and and get it made public.
Now, that's a huge thing because actually, from the date of the enactment, which was december 22nd of last year, of 2023, that would have like two months ago.
Yeah, it would have fallen on uh, on october 18th Of 2024, right this year, like two weeks before the election.
Perfect timing.
Yeah, I mean, it was just that we had it all set up so that this information is coming forward so that people will have it, you know, in helping to make their decisions as to who ought to be their senators, who ought to be their president and vice president, et cetera.
You know, this is an extraordinary event.
I mean, when you have, when you have, everybody knows now about Colonel Grush, you know, testifying in the House Oversight Committee under oath that we are in possession.
Of a non human extraterrestrial spacecraft.
And the bodies that are non human, the DNA tests have shown that they're non human.
Now, that's a big story.
The DNA tests have shown.
But have we seen any DNA tests?
They've got them.
The Senate Intelligence Committee's got it.
So, with Grush, how many total witnesses did he bring forward?
There are 40 of them.
40.
So, I was just talking to my friend Jeremy Riss.
We do a little Patreon appreciation before this.
And I was asking him because he's a historian in the UFO.
You know Jeremy?
Yeah.
He's a great guy.
He was talking about, I was asking him about you, and he had a great way, a great question.
I'm going to try to botch this, but he basically said, Danny Sheehan's a Harvard lawyer.
Ask him this.
If I broke into, or if anyone broke into anybody's house, if I broke into your house, right?
And there were two witnesses that were neighbors, and they both said they saw me breaking into your house, you would go to jail, right?
No, I wouldn't go to jail.
You'd go to jail.
I would go to jail, right?
I own their house.
You'd go to jail.
Yeah, that's what I meant, right?
So, whoever broke in would go to jail based on those two witnesses who saw you breaking into the house.
If the jury believed the two witnesses.
So, we have 40 witnesses with this whole UFO dog and pony show.
That's right.
And is the issue that the jury doesn't believe the witnesses?
No, it's that the jury has been the Senate Intelligence Committee, and they do believe them.
That's the whole point.
That's why they passed this law saying, look, okay, now it's time to have a full disclosure of this information to the American people.
So that we can formulate what to do about all this.
So, why can't we get, based on those 40 whistleblowers or witnesses, why can't we get a search warrant of the blue room at Wright Patterson Air Force Base or Battelle Memorial Institute?
That's basically what this statute was.
This statute was basically a search warrant that was issued by the Senate Intelligence Committee, ratified by the United States Senate, saying that there is subpoena power that they have, that they're commanding them to turn over the information.
To the Senate Intelligence Committee and specifically to the National Archives.
So they're ordered to cough it up.
And if they don't cough it up, there is subpoena power.
And they have the power to subpoena them, to make them cough it up.
And they have the power to undertake sworn depositions.
So they can subpoena people to come to depositions and interrogate them under oath, subject to perjury charges against them.
If they try to pretend they don't have the information or their dog ate the homework, whatever they want to come up with for their lame excuses as to why they haven't produced it.
And they, very importantly, had the power of eminent domain, which was to actually seize, order the seizure of the crafts to take them back into the possession of the United States government.
Or any material, right?
Or any material, any biologics or anything.
They had the power of eminent domain to take them back.
So this was.
So this was a real search warrant, subpoena that was issued by Congress basically to take this stuff into possession for the Congress because it's an absolute violation of the Constitution.
To deprive the Congress of the United States, which is actually the fundamental government, the elected government of the United States, the other people are appointed.
These are employees, the people in the Defense Department.
They're not elected by anybody.
And so they don't have the authority.
The president has the authority.
And under the statute, the president had the authority to review this because we've discovered that a number of the presidents were not briefed in on this, even when they tried to get it.
That's how I got started in this whole thing back in 1977.
Jimmy Carter got elected in November of 1976, November 4th.
On November 19th, he sent the message to the CIA director and ordered him to come down to Plains, Georgia to his home.
Is that Bush?
That was George Bush Sr. and ordered him to come down and demanded that he turn over the information to him about UFOs and what connection they had to extraterrestrial life.
George Bush refused to give it to him and said he didn't have a need to know.
And so, what President Carter did is he went to the Congress and got the House Science and Technology Committee to issue a directive to the Congressional Research Service.
To gather all the information together and provide it to the president.
And that's when I got called.
I was at the Jesuit headquarters at the time, and I got contacted by Dr. Marsha Smith, who was the head of the Science and Technology Division of the Congressional Research Service of the Library of Congress.
And she called me and asked me if I would be special counsel to the investigation, the research, initially to see if we could get the Vatican, because I was at Jesuit headquarters, to see if we could get the Vatican to agree to allow us to have access to the archives.
Of whatever information they had on UFOs and the ET phenomenon.
And so that's how I got involved in it back in the early spring of 1977.
What made you guys want to go to the Vatican?
Well, they wanted to go to the Vatican because they thought that given the fact that there's a thousand, you know, 2,000 years almost of records that have been kept there,
they thought that they suspected that there may be information in the Vatican archives about the issue of UFOs or extraterrestrial intelligence, mainly because the The Vatican was for many centuries one of the primary sources of intelligence gathering for the Roman pontiffs.
They had intelligence services, which were primarily Jesuit, actually, since 1547.
Yeah, it's wild the Vatican has a space observatory.
A lot of people don't know that.
Yeah, they do.
It's a pontifical observatory at Castle Gandolfo, just outside of Rome.
So what did they say to you when you asked them for access to the archives?
They said no.
They just said no.
Yeah, they said no.
So I sent them a second letter saying, let me make clear this is Jesuit headquarters in Washington, D.C. We're contacting you as the largest order in the Catholic Church.
We've been contacted by a person who's been designated by the president to get this information.
We'd like to have the information.
And they just said no, that we couldn't have it.
And so I contacted Dr. Marsha Smith and told her that they were not willing to give it to us.
And then she asked me if I would go and brief the top 50 scientists at SETI out at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory, JPL, out in Pasadena, if I would go and brief them on the theological implications of contact with an extraterrestrial civilization, which I did.
Requesting Classified Information00:15:06
And I got clearance from the Jesuit order to do that.
And so then I was, we went to the National Council of Churches and met with.
The leaders of the 54 major religious denominations in the United States and proposed to them from Jesuit headquarters that they agree to set up a task force to look into this to get out ahead of the power curve so that we wouldn't have another Copernicus and Galileo kind of event of people freaking out and thinking that somehow science was going to be contradicting basic theological tenets.
So we said, look, we ought to get busy on this.
And then the National Council of Churches didn't want to do it.
it.
So that was what we were doing there at the headquarters.
And then I was contacted later after that by Dr. John Mack to represent him.
What year were you contacted by him?
1994.
I was contacted in 1994 by John Mack to represent him at Harvard because I'd graduated from the college and the law school and gone to do my master's and PhD work at Harvard.
And so he figured that we'd kind of wave the school tie at them and get them to lay off him.
So that's the next kind of major event that I was engaged in.
And John and I had gone to see Lawrence Rockefeller, and Rockefeller had agreed to finance an entire Grand Rounds at Harvard to present all of the information and evidence to them.
And so I was actually in the position of interviewing virtually everybody in the field on behalf of Dr. John Mack to prepare them as witnesses to be part of this Grand Rounds at Harvard in 1994.
So you interviewed the people that were in his abduction book?
The people that.
Well, I met some of those people, yeah.
But I also interviewed all the major researchers.
I got to meet Stanton Friedman.
I got to meet Bud Hopkins.
I got to meet David Jacobs.
I got to meet virtually everybody.
I got to meet Stephen Greer.
I got to meet Linda Moulton Howe.
I got to meet all the folks that were researchers.
And then I got to meet all kinds of the direct experiencers because I also became legal counsel for the Project for Extraordinary Experience Research.
That's the peer group that John Mack put together in Cambridge.
So, I got to meet the people in that context.
And so that's why Stephen Greer ended up asking me in 2001 to be legal counsel for the Disclosure Project.
And I was legal counsel for the Disclosure Project for 20 years.
So, I got to meet a lot more people in vetting the witnesses that we were going to present at the National Press Club in 2001.
Yeah.
So, going back to John Mack, when he first reached out to you, what was.
He wanted you to represent him for the stuff that Harvard was coming down on him for.
Yes.
For the research that he was doing.
That's right.
What did you guys end up doing when you first met with him and how did you approach that case with him?
Well, it was interesting.
I actually got contacted initially by Ron Robertson.
Ron Robertson is John Mack's best friend, he was his best man for him and Sally at their wedding and everything.
He was out in Santa Barbara, and I was teaching at the University of California at Santa Barbara.
Ron Robertson contacted me.
He was the head of the art department at Santa Barbara City College.
He had come to a number of my lectures on the Iran Contra case, the Karen Silkwood case, and the Three Mile Island case, and other cases that we had done.
He was kind of a follower of the Christic Institute at the time.
He called me and asked me to come and see him, and then asked me what I thought about the UFO issue.
And I told him I thought it was extraordinarily important.
It was probably one of the most important public policy issues that one could be involved in.
And he said, oh, well, look, I should tell you that my best friend, John Mack, has just been dragged up in front of this kind of tribunal at Harvard University that's completely secret right now, but that they're excoriating him for having written this book about his interviews with people who held sincere beliefs that they'd had direct contact with extraterrestrial spacecraft, et cetera.
And I said, Would you be willing to take a call from John and consider representing him?
And I said, Yes, absolutely.
So, John called me, had me fly to Cambridge, and we sat down to talk about this.
And we looked into it, and this was not an AAUP panel.
It was not an Association of American University Professors authorized panel of any kind.
It was just this kind of rump gathering that they'd put together.
And then I found out that what had happened is that the United States Air Force and the Defense Department and the Central Intelligence Agency had been engaged for decades.
In a covert program of trying to smear people inside the military or inside government offices who tried to actually do anything about the UFO issue.
And what had happened is that one of the first things they would do if a high ranking officer insisted upon filing an official UFO report, one of the first things they would do is order him to go get a psychiatric exam, which is not a career builder in the military.
And so that a few of these guys who had actually pushed all the way through and insisted upon filing an official report.
For example, Arnie Arnoldson, Colonel Arnoldson, was the commander at the Malmstrom Air Force Base in Montana back in 1968 when the UFO came up over the Minuteman site and shut off all 10 of the Minuteman missiles.
And Arnie Arnoldson was the guy that called NORAD about it and said, you know, that we've got this craft of some sort that's come up over our site and has closed off all of our missiles.
They said, Are you trying to file a UFO report?
And he said, Yes, yes, I am.
And they said, Well, that's interesting because both the Minuteman site to your west and to your east have both reported the same thing.
They've had their missiles shut off too, which people don't know about, don't talk about.
But I talked to Colonel Arnoldson.
But it was fellows like that who insisted upon going forward that would be ordered to get a psychiatric exam.
And so a number of them had been sent to Harvard Medical School.
To get this kind of top level psychiatric exam.
And John Mack, being the chairman of the department, was actually tasked to do that.
So he did that.
And he told me later, he said, You know, I did all the interviews with them and did all the tests.
This wasn't by choice.
No, no, no, no.
They were ordered to do it.
And so when John said, I.
I mean him, but it wasn't his choice to interview these people.
Well, no.
They were sent there to be tested.
And my guess is that he, as the chairman of the department, Had some discretion in who would be assigned to actually do the exams.
And so he chose to do those.
Do you know if before he started interviewing these people, these military people, if he had any sort of interest in this topic before that?
No, he did not.
He assumed it was all nutty, actually.
And he actually suspected that these guys had something wrong with them.
And he did the interviews and then he said, you know, but each one of them tested out to be within the normal parameters.
Of normalcy.
And yet they had this story that they kept insisting upon going forward with, and they felt compelled to talk about it and were ordered to be silent about it.
And so he actually called his mother, John, who was like, I don't know, probably 60 years old at that time.
But he called his mother, who was like 90 years old, and tells her about this.
And she said, Oh, well, you should go see the Hopkins boy.
You know, they were family friends.
The Mack family were family friends with the.
Hopkins family.
And she said, The Hopkins boy has been interviewing a lot of people who believe that they've seen these UFOs or had direct contact with the pilots or the occupants.
And so he ended up calling Bud Hopkins and getting to talk to Bud.
And Bud sent some other people to him police officers, teachers, lawyers, librarians, people who were in kind of positions in the community that it would not have been in their interest to make up something like that.
And so he started interviewing them.
And as he started interviewing them, he got so fascinated by the stories that he began actually conducting like an investigation.
What he would do is he never hypnotized.
John never hypnotized anybody.
He didn't want to do that.
He never did?
No, he did not.
What he does is he did a thing called holotropic breathing.
Holotropic breathing was a method that was developed by Stanislav Groff to actually get people super relaxed.
And they would do like, it's sort of like Hindu breathing through the different nose things.
And they would get into a kind of an elevated state of consciousness and get very, very relaxed.
And that was the key for them to remember things, any kind of anxiety that they had that was blocking any of their memory.
So he would do the holotropic breathing and interview the people.
And what he would do is he would actually start asking them kind of ancillary questions.
They would tell what was happening.
They'd say, okay, now, are you aware?
And they'd say, well, I'm inside some kind of a.
Room, you know, I'm on this table and I'm getting examined.
And he said, Now, will you look around a little bit?
Tell us, what do you see?
And then he would have them describe, like, the equipment in the room.
What type of equipment do you see?
You know, what does it look like?
And he would get, like, details of some of the stuff that they were seeing.
So that when he had another person who was in a similar situation, he would ask them things that nobody would have ever asked him about, but, like, particular little details about what was happening.
And it started being correlating.
And so he started to suspect that this was something that was extraordinarily strange because it seemed like it was real, what was happening to them.
And so he wrote an article.
He wrote an article for the New England Journal of Medicine.
How many people had stories that were very similar?
And what kind of objects did they talk about seeing?
They would talk about some of the instruments, for example, that were being used to examine them.
He would ask them to describe in detail what the instruments looked like.
Was there any kind of equipment in the room?
Did you see any kind of navigation equipment in there?
Any kind of computers?
What did you see?
And they would describe in some detail some of the stuff that they were seeing.
I had a guy on here named Randall Nickerson.
Yeah, Randy.
Randy Nickerson.
He explained to me something about some sort of pole or stick.
Yeah, yeah.
It was a rod.
A rod.
There's a rod that a number of them reported having them.
It was usually the tall.
Tall grays, they call them, that had this rod, and that they would, it seemed to actually give them control over people.
Actually, it was like, it seemed to amp up kind of their telepathic capacities, which were quite considerable to begin with.
But it was like that.
So John ended up sending in this report that he did for an article for the New England Journal of Medicine.
And after several days, it got sent back to him.
With a note saying they weren't going to publish this.
Well, he was kind of taken aback by this.
He's the chairman of the Department of Clinical Psychiatry at Harvard Medical School.
This is a very professional piece.
So he decided what he would do is he would beef it up.
He would put in more footnotes and more details of the stuff to make it really full scale professional.
And then he sent it back to him.
And within two days, the executive assistant for Arnold Rellman, who was the head of the, who was the editor in chief of the New England Journal of Medicine, sent his executive assistant back to Harvard to go into the office of John and hand it back to him and to tell him to note that it had not been opened.
And they weren't going to open it and they weren't going to even consider publishing it.
And John got upset about it.
And so John called a publisher.
He'd won the Pulitzer Prize already.
Right.
For writing Lawrence of Arabia.
Lawrence of Arabia, the T.E. Lawrence thing, the psychobiography.
And so he contacted a publisher and the publisher agreed to write it, to print it.
And it was published.
And then, like, within a couple days of it hitting the stands, the dean of the medical school came in.
And said, John, you know, I hear that you've published a new book.
And he said, Yes.
He said, Well, this is a very interesting topic.
You know, why don't you come by, you know, and let's talk about this?
It's very interesting.
And then he said, Look, and as long as you and I are going to be talking about it, why don't we invite some of the other faculty people to come on over who might be interested in this?
So John was excited about this.
John thought that was a cool idea.
So he was going to, he went to where the assigned place was to go and meet the dean.
And he comes into the room and here's this tribunal.
Sitting there.
That there is not only the dean himself, but it turns out that Arnold Relman, the editor in chief of the New England Journal of Medicine, was chairing the committee.
And then there was the legal counsel for Harvard University sitting there.
And then there were three other professors, all of whom John thought were people who really didn't like him for some reason in the faculty.
He had some experience with them.
And they were all there and they began to excoriate him.
For besmirching the name of Harvard University, writing about this ridiculous thing that it was clear that these people were mentally ill, and that if he had written an article about this weird mental illness, then that would have been okay.
But he seemed to give the impression that he was attributing some sort of dimension of reality to this whole experience.
And so he was taken completely aback by what they were doing.
The Collagen Supplement Case00:02:05
So he called his mother.
Again, and his mother said, Well, why don't you just go to the family lawyer?
You know, they were a fairly wealthy family, and you know, and his father was a doctor, and his grandfather was a doctor.
They were kind of a wealthy family.
And so he goes to the local lawyer in Boston, the family lawyer, and the lawyer says, Oh, just give them anything they want.
You know, if they want the recordings of your sessions, did you bill them?
Did they get insurance?
Were you doing this as a clinical treatment to them, or were you doing research?
You know, just tell them whatever they want to know.
And he was kind of surprised.
He said he wasn't expecting that kind of advice.
And then he checked and found out that the lawyer, the law firm Ropes and Gray, was the lawyer for Harvard University.
Oh, no.
And he felt betrayed by the whole thing.
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Now back to the show.
So he called his best friend, Ron Robertson, who called you, who ended up calling me, saying, Why don't we get Danny and see if he's interested in helping you on this?
And John said, Oh, no, no, he's just like the Ron Contra case.
The big soaker, he's done all those other big cases.
He probably wouldn't even be interested in this subject.
That's why Ron Robson called me, asked me to come to dinner and asked me, What do you think about this?
And so that's how I got to be on the case.
So I go with John to the next session of the tribunal, and we come in, we sit down, right?
And there's Relman up there with all the dean of the medical school and the lawyer and all these guys.
And so Relman just starts in trying to interrogate him.
And so I said, well, excuse me.
I said, excuse me here.
You know, I don't know.
I didn't do the potted plant routine.
I'm not just a potted plant citizen.
I said, look, I don't know what the nature of this tribunal is.
It's certainly not an AAUP convened tribunal.
I said, but whatever the nature of it is, can you tell me?
You know, are any of the two following fact questions going to be at issue here?
Number one, Whether or not extraterrestrial life exists, and secondly, whether at least some of these sightings of the UFOs might actually be a vehicle from an extraterrestrial civilization.
And Relman says, well, the two of them are absolutely going to be relevant.
He said, and it's totally ridiculous to think that either one of those things could be true.
That's what he says to me.
You know, 1994, Harvard University just says it's completely ridiculous to think that there would be life anywhere else in the universe.
I mean, that's where they were.
So I said to him, Well, I said, in that case, you know, in the spirit of cooperation, let's just tell me who is it that called the dean?
And there was this big dead silence over the room.
And he looked around like this, and the lawyer for Harvard University looks at him and goes like that, shakes her head no.
And he says, Well, I'm sorry, we're not at liberty to discuss that.
And I said, Oh, okay.
I said, Well, look, in the spirit of cooperation here, you said they ask a bunch of questions, and he wasn't really able to.
To answer the question.
So, what were the questions?
Another big, long pause.
He looked at the lawyer, the lawyer shook her head no.
And he said, I'm sorry, we're not at liberty to discuss that.
So I said, All right, well, then look, let me just tell you, in the spirit of openness, that John and I have just spent the weekend with Lawrence Rockefeller, and he's agreed to finance a complete Grand Rounds here on this subject at Harvard University.
That we'll bring in the chief investigator for the Federal Aviation Agency, we'll bring in military personnel, we'll bring in police officers and things that have filed these reports.
And the lawyer for Harvard University just leaped to her feet and she said, absolutely not.
She said, we're not going to allow this procedure to be turned into some kind of a circus, she said.
And so I said, Well, I said, you know, we've made the offer.
You know, we're perfectly willing to answer your questions and stuff, but we're going to present the witnesses to support these two fact questions that you think are at issue here.
And so we're ready to proceed.
And they said, No, we're not going to do any of that.
So I said to John, That's it, John.
We're out of here.
You know, this is not an official tribunal of any kind.
You don't have to be here.
So I reached down and kind of helped pick him up out of the chair and walked out on him.
You know, and so I went around doing all the interviews of all of these people.
That we could present.
We just kept going straight forward, saying, you know, I kept saying, this is a great opportunity, you know, to present to Harvard University what the evidence is and the information is that we have.
And so I had to have a local council because I was admitted in the Southern District of New York and in Washington, D.C., but I wasn't admitted in Massachusetts.
So I went to Dershowitz, Al Dershowitz, who was one of my professors at Harvard, and said, because I had the course with him on.
On psychiatry and the law, he and Stone, Professor Alan Stone.
So I'd taken a year course in that at Harvard.
So I went to see him and I said, you know, who should we have to be just local counsel for me here?
So he recommended Harvey Silverglade.
And Harvey was in the middle of a trial and he couldn't do it.
So he recommends this young guy, Eric McLeish, who had just gotten into the bar in Massachusetts.
And so he could just, you know, be there to be local counsel.
So we brought him on board.
And then he right away started working at trying to figure out how to settle the case.
To say, well, look, why don't we just do whatever they tell you to do?
Why don't you just, you know?
And I said, no, stop it.
You know, we're not going to do that.
We're not going to turn over all the tape recordings of these things to them.
I said, you know, that we're going to do the grand rounds.
And so he kept on figuring out trying to solve this thing and settle it and make them leave him alone.
And John's wife was upset.
Sally was really upset.
Because he was being ostracized, you know, at Harvard.
He wasn't invited to any of the social events anymore.
And she wasn't getting invited to any of the women's things.
And so she was getting really upset about what was happening to him.
And it was all secret, you know, because they kept saying, you know, we want this kept secret that we're doing this hearing.
And I kept saying to myself, why the hell should we keep this secret?
This is ridiculous.
They don't have any right to be doing this.
But so what I was doing is I was respecting John's wish to keep it secret.
So what I did is I was reaching out to all these different potential witnesses.
To come in and start preparing.
And one of the people that we reached out to that had been in the University of Colorado, because they were very, very familiar with the Condon report that came out of the University of Colorado years earlier.
Okay, yeah.
And so he got terribly upset that this was going on.
And he called the newspaper and told them that this was happening.
Condon?
No, no, no.
It was this other guy.
It was a professor there that just knew all about the Condon report.
Okay, okay.
They just knew all about the Condon report.
I understand.
And so I was going to have him testify all about it.
And so he told somebody about it.
And so they threw a big fit.
The committee threw a big fit over the fact that it had been made public.
And so this fellow, Eric McLeish, kept getting in there trying to get it settled.
And it turns out, Eric McLeish is later on after they stopped and left John alone, I was the one that initiated the first litigation against the Catholic Church for the pedophile priests in Boston.
And I got a hold of Eric McLeish to do the case for us, right?
Pull that mic back.
And he ended up starting settling all these cases.
He was the guy in Spotlight, the movie Spotlight that Ruffalo, Mark Ruffalo was in, where they told all about the Boston Globe and the investigation they conducted about all the priests.
And they discovered that this guy, Eric McLeish, was the guy settling all the cases for the Catholic Church and getting a huge, Portion of the settlement that was given to the people, but making them sign statements that they would keep completely secret any of the accusations they made against the church, which totally pissed me off.
So, was he working as a double agent with the church?
Yeah, he was.
That's what he was doing.
He was settling all the cases and he was basically engaging in covering for the church, but getting money for all the people that had filed complaints against these pedophiles.
Priest, but he was getting a share of the money.
And so I was really mortified by that.
But it started with him successfully settling the case for John Mack and making them leave John alone.
But it stifled our ability to bring all the witnesses on.
It's a little known fact about a well known subject.
But the bottom line is that's how I ended up, after they apologized to John and left him alone, he had me become legal counsel for his project on extraordinary experience research, the peer group.
That he had there in Cambridge.
And John and I started working on trying to set up what we were calling the New Paradigm Institute that was going to be examining the worldviews clash that occurred.
That this is an entirely different worldview that Harvard University has.
It's the scientific, logical, positivist, materialist worldview.
And that the assertion that it was completely impossible to believe that any spacecraft could actually come from a distant star system and come to our planet just couldn't be true.
Because they can't go faster than the speed of light, and therefore they can't get there.
What did John think about all of this?
Did he really think that this was like spacecrafts coming from another star system, or did he think this was something like inside the human mind?
No, it wasn't inside the human mind.
What he started thinking about was that he thought it was quite clear that there was evidence that some of these events involved a spacecraft from some other planetary system.
For example, the Betty and Barney Hill case.
Betty Hill actually.
Got one of the people on the craft that she believed they'd been abducted and brought onto to show her a map.
You probably have heard about that.
Showed him the star map, right?
And she did get hypnotized by a guy in Boston, a professional hypnotist.
And she redrew the star map that was shown to him.
And nobody could figure out where it was.
And it turns out that it wasn't later until they had the computers that could do it that they reversed the star chart.
To figure out the perspective from which the star map was drawn, that came from their planet, which turned out to be Zeta Reticuli.
And when that happened, that was kind of a further confirmation because there wasn't any way she could have drawn something like that.
She didn't know anything about stuff like that, right?
And so John said, okay, now there's some solid evidence that at least some of this is coming from an extraterrestrial civilization somewhere, but he thought that there was other stuff going on as well.
That it wasn't that this was a delusion on their part, but that in fact there was something going on that had to do with what is normally considered to be religion and apparitions that saints see and the apparitions of Mary, you know, these kind of things that are happening.
And so he started exploring it and going to interview indigenous people around the world who believe that they have direct encounters with star people.
You know, in the Lakota tribe, for example, the Lakota people believe that they come from the Pleiades originally and that they came down from the Pleiades in this light chamber, came down into the Black Hills, into the wind caves, and came up through the wind caves.
It's a very specific tradition that they believe.
And there are other indigenous tribes.
So John started interviewing people and put together this thing called the Project on Extraordinary Experience Research.
Just one of the extraordinary experiences was these encounters.
With what they experienced as being an extraterrestrial being, you know, in a spacecraft.
But there were other experiences that people had that made it appear that it was like interdimensional, that they thought that these beings were coming from some other dimension.
In fact, we got called, John got called by Bob Bigelow out from the Skinwalker Ranch.
This is back in 1995 or so, right?
And he got a call from Bigelow, and Bigelow said, Ask John to come fly out and see him right away.
And bring your lawyer who helped you there at Harvard.
So we flew out to see Bigelow.
And when we arrived, even like a day later after this event had taken place, we arrived and met with him.
And he didn't want to talk about it anymore.
He decided, I don't want to talk about it.
And Colin Kelleher was there.
And Colin took me aside and stepped into the room next door and told me all about what had happened there at the ranch and had to do with this kind of portal.
That was like at the ranch.
And that this portal had opened, and one of their people had seen this other, this person, you know, a big, tall, seven foot tall being, you know, that had big, kind of shaggy hair.
It looked almost like a Yeti kind of character.
And Colum told me all about it, you know.
And so I went back out and was talking to Bigelow to see whether he wanted to do it.
Because what happened is Bigelow brought in a scientific team right away to try to see what it is that was going on here, to measure what was.
These two helicopters flew in.
Two helicopters flew in and landed and ordered the scientific team to get away.
And they couldn't come to where this event took place.
And the scientists kept saying, No, we're here from Mr. Bigelow.
He owns this place.
And they said, They don't care.
You get the hell out of here.
They were American guys.
Black helicopters?
They were unmarked helicopters.
But they were just regular jumpsuits, all black jumpsuits, no insignia on them, no names on them, and anything.
But they were American guys.
Talking, he knew that they were they could recognize they were American military guys, you know.
And when the scientists kept trying to insist upon going in and setting up their equipment, they began to get beaten up by these guys and breaking their equipment and broke their cameras and scared the crap out of them.
On Skinwalker Ranch, yes, yes, yeah.
And I was right there like within two days of when this happened, you know, of them beating up the scientists and stuff.
And so, originally, he was so upset that Bigelow wanted to sue them.
And wanted John to bring his lawyer out to do something about this.
But by the time we got there, just a couple of days later, he just was not going to do anything at all.
And as I say, it was Colin Collaher told me all about the details of what it is that had just happened.
Who do you guys suspect these people were?
I don't get paid to guess.
You know, if people want to investigate it and want to do it so I can retain professional investigators and the proper people to do the investigation, we do it.
Does anybody have any ideas?
Does Bigelow have any clue?
Does anybody speculate?
Oh, all kinds of people speculate.
I mean, this whole field is filled with speculation.
These private contractors?
Are they.?
It's a.
Vetting Disclosure Witnesses00:02:13
It's, you know, that I'm assuming that I'll be in position since we've set up the new institute, the new paradigm institute, that will be funded to investigate things like this and do it professionally, full scale, you know, with psychological stress evaluators and professional investigators that are licensed gun towters.
That's what we work with.
You know, that's what we did in the Karen Silkwood case.
That's how we found out who killed Karen Silkwood.
It's how we found out that they were smuggling the plutonium out of the facility to Israel.
You know, it's how we did the Iran Contra case, how we caught them smuggling the weapons to the Contras and smuggling the cocaine.
We had where they were smuggling the cocaine to.
And, you know, the refrigerator de Punto Reyes, these little shrimp boats, they were bringing it into Miami.
We had the house where they were bringing it.
We had the unlisted private telephone number for the house.
We had the code words you use to be able to call and get an order of the drugs.
We knew that it was Gambino's daughter that was running the place.
That's what we do.
I mean, that was what the Christic Institute was for 20 years in Washington.
That's what the Romero Institute has been for 20 years out in California.
And that's what our new paradigm institute brings to this.
That's what we brought to John Mack.
That's what we brought to the review of the vetting the people that were going to be witnesses for the disclosure project.
So, with John Mack, all of those people that you guys interviewed and all the people that he did this holotropic breathing with and had them kind of recount these experiences, things like what Betty and Barney Hill encountered, how many of those people were full of shit?
A few of them.
There had been a few of them.
Yeah, yeah, there were.
Some of them were full of.
And how did they discern?
Some of them were full of.
Some of them were mentally ill, which is different than being full of.
But there were others that were just fakes, they just wanted celebrity or wanted to be involved in it.
And so I vetted these people out.
That was what I did for the peer group.
That was part of my responsibility.
And that's what I did for the disclosure project, I said, no.
These are not people that we want to vouch for.
Dodie Wilcock Investigation00:10:21
Right.
You know?
And so that we could call through the people and present just the most credible people with the kind of verifiable evidence that you would conduct a Rule 11 preliminary investigation before you would be willing to file a complaint, you know, asserting that the facts are true to the best of your belief.
You know, that's in what we bring to this whole field, which is new, is a Rule 11 standard of professional investigation.
And the fact of the matter is that.
We can, in fact, bring adequate numbers of witnesses who are completely credible, completely verifiable, who've got corroborating evidence and documented proof, you know.
And those are the kind of people that are being presented to the United States Senate.
Are you familiar with the guy who he was an Air Force officer, I believe, at the what was the name of that base in California?
Vandenberg.
Vandenberg.
There was a story of a rocket that went up with a dummy nuclear warhead on it.
This guy was like arguing with Bill Nye on live TV about it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Was he one of your witnesses?
No, he hasn't gone in front of the Senate yet.
He came to the National Press Club, though.
He came with Bob Solis.
Bob Solis came and who was the captain at the Malmstrom Air Force Base with the Minutemen.
And there were two other guys who came with him.
One of them was that guy.
And he presented the entire information about and showed a mock up of the video that he took.
A mock up of the video?
He showed what it looked like.
What it was is that he was actually.
Videoing the launch and watched the launch go with the big, gigantic telescope that they had.
He had it mounted to be able to watch the whole ascent of the rocket.
And he saw the thing.
And what he did is he drew a reenactment of what it looked like.
Where was the original video?
It was top secret.
It was kept by the people.
He was working for Vandenberg Air Force Base.
He was actually part of the team that was monitoring the flight.
And so he was in an official position to be doing it.
And so he's the one that saw the video and turned it over to the officials in the Air Force about what it is that had happened.
And he waited for years.
This was just, let's see, we're in February of 2024.
Now, this was like in, I guess, early June, probably a little earlier than that, May, perhaps May of 2023.
He came with Bob Salas to the National Press Club and actually had a press conference.
And showed his recreation of what the video looked like.
So he did talk about that.
Yeah, there's been lots of recreations of that video online.
You can find it on YouTube.
For people that aren't familiar with it, apparently some sort of a saucer came up around this fake nuke that was being launched in the atmosphere and it shot laser beams into it and then it just fell into the ocean.
Yeah, and it just showed a beam of light coming out of it.
And then the rocket was.
Going up.
I mean, it was accelerating, you know, like, I don't know, a thousand miles an hour or something.
And this craft, whatever it was, was just doing circles around it and zapped it with these three different beams of light.
And then the whole thing just, you know, went all off course and ended up crashing, I guess.
Yeah.
And we were talking a little bit earlier about like the misinformation and what the military was trying to do with some of these people at these bases by, you know, Giving them these psych exams by John Mack because obviously, like you put it well, it's not good for a career building, right?
Exactly, yeah, right.
So, are you like, I wonder how much of that is going on now with people that come out andor are publicly talking about like witnessing UFOs or having these sort of abduction experiences.
How many of these people are being contacted by people in the government or people in the military and being fed disinformation?
So, they can basically be a conduit to the media, giving them sort of like a limited hangout type thing?
Well, it's an important fact question, but it's one that we have to investigate.
I mean, all kinds of people have speculated about it, and there's a mixture of people who are making stuff up, there's a mixture of people who are speculating, there are people who are getting third hand reports and then embellishing them.
What we're doing at the New Paradigm Institute, in addition to organizing and educating people, About the kind of really concrete cases that are really verifiable.
That's what we're going to do investigate some of these other cases to vet them and decide which ones of those we can vouch for.
Okay, because we're in the process of presenting people to the Senate, you know, and to the House Oversight Committee.
So we're trying to make sure that, you know, you could have five really absolutely credible witnesses, but if you let one real ringer get in there, you know, who's mentally ill or just faking it, you know, like this guy, Corey Good, you know, that was going around, you know, pretending that he was on, you know, interstellar spacecraft that we'd back engineered and he'd been to other galaxies.
Who's this guy?
This guy, Corey Good, that he was around for about two years.
And Dave Wilcock was, you know, Flogging him all around and putting him on Gaia and everything.
You know, there are people that are just complete phonies that have.
Dave Wilcock, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
That guy's a wacko.
That's right.
That's right.
But these two guys were all the rage.
I mean, they were showing up at, you know, going on Gaia television.
They were going to the International UFO Congress.
They were going to the, you know, all these different events where people are gathering together and they were attracting big, huge crowds, you know, and it was just this totally sensationalist.
Stuff.
I mean, and I just, I ended up refusing to go to any, I refused to participate in anything that they were at.
That guy, Wilcock, was like in the beginning of the trailer of one of Stephen Greer's documentaries calling Greer a genius.
Well, he was like, Stephen Greer is a genius.
Well, as I say, people say all kinds of things, you know.
And this area has been rife with people who are hoaxing, and people do it just, it's just like the kids who used to cut people's clotheslines on Halloween.
You know, or poop in a bag and light it on fire and put it on people's porches.
Right.
I mean, there are people that are just reckless.
Well, are you?
I'm sure you're familiar with the Paul Benowitz case, right?
There's a movie, there's an amazing documentary called Mirage Men.
And it's about this guy named Paul Benowitz.
And I believe this was in Steve, you could probably find this, but I think it was in the 70s, mid to late 70s.
He was living in Nevada.
And, um, Here's the documentary.
It is one of, if not the best UFO documentary I've ever seen.
Shout out Jeremy Reese told me about this.
Anyways, he was living near an Air Force base right over the hill in Nevada.
And this guy was a devout UFO guy, right?
He was in the community going to all the talks.
And he was seeing these crafts, these UFOs flying over the mountains near where this Air Force test range was.
And he was sharing them with the UFO community in the area.
Anyways, the Air Force got wind, or the people at the base got wind of this, and they sent a counterintelligence guy over to his apartment to check it out and see what he knew.
And the guy they sent over, his name was Rick Doty.
Oh, Doty.
Oh, yeah.
And he went over there and he found out what he had.
And Doty was feeding him fake information.
This is right in line when they were testing the stealth bomber.
And Doty saw what he knew and asked him what he thought.
And he said he thought they were UFOs.
And Dodie said, You know what?
I think you're right.
I think these are aliens.
And he used Benowitz as a conduit into the UFO community to disseminate this misinformation because they knew there were Soviet spies embedded in the UFO community that were trying to figure out what sort of military or like blue sky research that we were testing and developing over there at those Air Force Base.
Yeah.
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No, I remember Dodie.
I've met Dodie before, you know, and I always thought Dodie was a phony, you know.
People didn't like me because saying it.
Active Disinformation Tactics00:03:53
I don't attack people as a rule unless I become just completely convinced that they're lying and that they're engaged in active disinformation and in trying to discredit the whole movement.
And Dodie was one of those guys.
And there have been a handful of others like Wilcox and Corey Good and a couple others that we've been involved in exposing.
There was one guy, I can't remember his name or not, but he had this whole cockamamie story where he and his dog were out walking in the woods and they came upon this craft that was crashed in the woods and it shot out a ray and froze his dog.
And so he got really angry and he picked up a big branch and clubbed this little.
UFO guy and put him in his freezer and was keeping him there.
And he had this big mechanism that he put on his wrist and could shoot rays.
It was just total lying, you know.
And one of my professional investigators actually followed this guy around and finally caught him, you know, reporting to some friends of his how he was bullshitting everybody.
Yeah.
And I told John Mack about it.
And John then issued a statement discrediting the guy.
Yeah.
And then what is that?
Someone driving.
That was a loud car driving.
There's also like when on Groom Lake, when the Air Force or the CIA was testing the first jet propelled, you know, the first jet airplanes, they sent up the pilots with gorilla masks in the cockpit.
So, in the case where they flew within visual distance of a civilian airplane, they would put on gorilla masks.
So, that when this pilot goes to the bar to tell his buddies about this jet airplane he saw, he's going to say he saw a gorilla flying a jet airplane.
So, it's like purposely planting these false, these fake seeds to cover up top secret information.
Oh, yeah.
They definitely were doing it.
And they very definitely consider the whole UFO issue a major top secret program, and that they've been actively engaged in sowing disinformation and discrediting individual people who have genuinely seen things.
They've destroyed people's family lives.
They've destroyed their professional careers.
They've destroyed their military careers.
There's a very active, aggressive counterintelligence program that's mounted to stop people from reporting genuine UFO incidents.
And I connect all of this to Bob Lazar in the fact that in his story, specifically when he talks about walking past a window and seeing an alien body, like if they were going to bring him in to potentially try to back engineer some sort of technology they dug up.
It would make it really would make sense that let's walk him through a room with a little alien in it.
So that way, if he ever tries to blow the whistle on this program, people aren't going to believe him.
No, there's dozens of individual cases where it bears analysis, professional analysis.
For example, all you have to do is get him, Bob Lazar, and put him on a psychological stress evaluator.
Mm hmm.
Which no one has done.
They put him on lie detector tests, and he's passed the lie detector test, but those are pretty crude.
I mean, the little things on your fingers and the little belt on your chest, those are not even close to the precision of a psychological stress evaluator that measures involuntary tension in your vocal cords.
Watergate Hearing Monitoring00:15:02
It's a very professional way of going about it.
I was in F. Lee Bailey's office.
How was this developed?
We used it in Bailey's office when I was there in 74, 75.
But not very many people knew about him.
I mean, Bailey also had a briefcase, a satellite phone, etc.
We discovered only later that he was actually on Index 4 for the CIA.
He was one of the four lawyers in the United States that the CIA is supposed to contact if one of their people is caught engaging in domestic covert operations, which is totally forbidden by the National Security Act of 1947.
I was one of the three trial lawyers in his office, and we didn't know it.
And as soon as we discovered it, you know, I left and had a number of the investigators leave with me because we didn't want to be associated with that.
Can you break it down for people listening what the Pentagon Papers were and how that led into the Watergate burglary and how you got involved in it?
Well, it wasn't.
Well, what happened is they were separate cases.
The Pentagon Papers, I had initiated the case, I was the co founder of the Harvard Civil Rights Law Review.
In 1968.
I was doing constitutional law with Lawrence Tribe and others, and we set up the Harvard Civil Rights Law Review.
I wanted the law review to be something more than just writing academic thought pieces.
I wanted to have a provision in the Harvard Civil Rights Law Review where we were helping young lawyers figure out how to become civil rights lawyers.
We sent out letters to a lot of the major bar associations and things.
Letting people know that if any lawyers had really important civil rights cases, they could contact us at the Harvard Civil Rights Law Review.
And we would get a bunch of little eager beavers at Harvard to work on those briefs, right?
And so the bottom line is I ended up being contacted by a guy by the name of Pappas, John Pappas, who was an NBC television journalist in New Bedford during the riots that followed the assassination of Martin Luther King.
In April of 68.
And the riots broke out in New Bedford after the assassination of Martin Luther King.
And the white mayor issued a shoot-on-site order to the police to shoot any looters that were engaged in looting in the context of those riots.
So the Black Panthers had set up barricades around the ghetto area to keep all the police out of there.
And their big standoff occurred because they built barricades and then the police came in and they brought in the helicopters and they thought there was going to be gunplay that was going on because they were armed, the Panthers.
Bottom line is, long story short, that the Panthers agreed to give an interview, an off-the-record interview to John Pappas who – Paul Pappas, I'm sorry, Paul Pappas would give them an interview if he would keep it off the record.
And he went in and interviewed them and then the district attorney subpoenaed him to make him cough up the confidential interviews that he'd had with the Panthers.
And they contacted us at the Harvard Civil Rights Law Review through a guy by the name of John Flynn to – So, I asserted the First Amendment right of journalists to protect their confidential news sources.
And the case went all the way up the United States Supreme Court right away.
And so, I was only a second year law student.
So, I got recruited by the Wall Street law firm that represents NBC to come down to do the briefs for the United States Supreme Court.
And in doing that, I also wrote the amicus briefs at the Supreme Court level for CBS and ABC and also for the Washington Post and the New York Times.
They all filed amicus briefs on that important issue, right, in the Supreme Court, because no one had ever asserted the right before.
And so it had never been litigated.
So we were litigating it in front of the Supreme Court.
In that context, I got to meet Jim Goodell, who was the general counsel and vice president for the New York Times.
So when they got the Pentagon Papers brought to them, their firm, Lord Day and Lord, that represents the New York Times most of the time, threatened to turn them into the FBI if they didn't give them back right away.
And so Jim Goodell called me.
Over at the Cahill firm.
So I got the call.
And then Jim Goodell came in to talk with me and us, and we agreed to represent them to publish the papers.
So we went ahead and did the Pentagon Papers case for the New York Times and won the case in the United States Supreme Court and got to publish all 47 volumes.
But what happened is I got to read I was one of the few human beings on the planet that actually read all 47 volumes of this because we were trying to determine what we were going to publish and what we weren't.
We're vetting what we're going to publish.
Why would you just publish all of it?
Well, because you didn't want to reveal names of people, for example, the thing that Snowden got in all the trouble for, right?
Right, right.
So the bottom line is I was doing all that.
And Bailey had already contacted me earlier before I went to the Cahill firm, wanting me to join his firm.
But all he wanted me to do is write legal briefs on behalf of constitutional rights to protect fucking criminals.
Did Bailey have anything to do with the Pentagon Papers?
No.
I would imagine that he would not want this shit published.
No, he did not have anything to do with it.
But he knew that I was doing all that stuff.
And he had asked me first to come to the court.
You're the good guy to recruit.
And so the bottom line is when he got retained by McCord to defend McCord in June of 1972, June 17th, when the burglary took place, Bailey gets retained because he was on Index 4 along with William Bennett Williams and two other attorneys, that he was on Index 4.
Why do they call it Index 4?
It was just the code name they had for the list.
CIA code name.
Yeah, it's a CIA code name.
There were four lawyers that were on retainer by the CIA so that if they got caught engaged in domestic covert operations, which is illegal, that they would call these lawyers, right?
And so Bailey was one of them.
And so Bailey called me and asked me if I would come out of the Cahill firm and come to his firm to be on the case.
So when we got there, I realized that these three of these Cubano guys from our interviews with McCord, that they were Traficante guys.
So I was kind of saying, look, I'm responsible for trying to monitor the hearings that are becoming up, the Watergate hearings.
Who was Travicante?
Santos Travicante was the don of the mafia in Havana.
And in January of 59, when Batista was overthrown by Fidel Castro and Che Guevara, et cetera, that Travicante fled and came to Tampa, actually.
It came to Tampa.
It was here.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
And that was Santos Travicante, the mob boss for all of Havana.
Which was a key area because it had the gambling casinos, it had the houses of prostitution, et cetera.
Was it Meyer Lansky big shot down there?
Miami.
He had a Miami National Bank, it was a Lansky bank.
It was a mafia bank.
But he ran a bunch of the casinos and whorehouses down there.
Yeah, that's right.
And they had the heroin, the main heroin trafficking was coming in from Southeast Asia, coming in through Traficanti, was also partners with Vang Pao over in Laos.
And they were bringing in the heroin into Havana.
In the three person partnership, Batista, Santos Traficante, and this guy, Paul Halliwell, for the CIA, are the ones that handled all the heroin coming in through Havana.
From Laos?
From Laos.
Wow.
That's right.
Through Bang Pao.
Yeah.
And so the bottom line is I came into the office and we ended up participating in getting McCord to blow the whistle on them.
He wrote the letter to Judge Sirica.
Explaining to him who the burglars were and what they were doing, because he thought that they were actually coming in to try to protect.
They thought that, well, the story that he told was that they thought that the Democratic Party was coddling people that were illegally opposing the Vietnam War, which they thought was undermining national security.
That's what James McCord was talking about.
But the bottom line, as it turns out, We found out through our interview of Traficante directly that the reason they'd gone into the Watergate Hotel was because Larry O'Brien, who had just been made the new head of the Democratic National Committee in the Watergate Hotel in Washington for 25 years, had previously been the chief lobbyist in Washington for Howard Hughes.
And Howard Hughes is the guy that Richard Nixon contacted to set up the assassination team to kill Castro and Che Guevara.
And the bottom line is that's the group that killed the president.
And that's what the Watergate burglary was all about Nixon was terrified that they were going to find out that because Larry O'Brien had worked for Howard Hughes, that Larry O'Brien may have found out that Nixon is the one who created the assassination team that ended up killing the president.
And that if that ever got out, that nobody would believe that he wasn't behind killing the president, which he wasn't.
But he was behind trying to kill Castro.
And it was that same unit that killed the president in 63.
All right.
We're going to have to rewind a little bit.
And we're going to have to go a little slower over this for a second.
So the guys, you interviewed Traficanti and found out that the Cuban guys were going into the hotel to find, they were hired by who?
They were, well, let me, I'll take it from the top and I'll tell you so you know the details of it.
What happened when I realized that there were Traficanti guys that were in the hotel and I was saying, what the hell has that got to do with anything?
Why are they there?
So I get a hold of Bill Taylor, who was my investigator.
Investigator assigned to me in the firm of Bailey.
Bailey gets a hold of Bad Andy Tooney, who was the chief investigator for Moriarty and Associates, which is Bailey's investigation firm.
He interviews Traficante at Hank's house, Henry Gonzalez, at his house here in Tampa.
He sets up an interview and interviews him at length.
He explains what's happened here.
What happened is back in early.
Late May, actually, of 1960.
This is the 1960 presidential campaign, and Richard Nixon is the vice president under Eisenhower.
Right.
Right.
And he is campaigning to get the Republican Party nomination in 1960.
And in late May of 1960, Nelson Rockefeller withdraws from the campaign in Michigan.
And therefore, Nixon knew he was going to win the nomination because Nixon was now because Nelson Rockefeller was out of the competition and Nixon was going to be the nominee.
And they were certain they were going to win because there was this kid, Kennedy, that was going to be the nominee for the Democrats.
So they were all convinced that he was going to win.
What Richard Nixon did is he was the head of the 5412 Committee, which is the subcommittee of the National Security Council that does covert operations under Section 5412 of the National Security Act of 1947 that authorizes the CIA to engage in activities from time to time at the request of the president to protect national security.
And so, Nixon ran, he chaired the 5412 Committee of the National Security Council.
So, he knew that Howard Hughes was a secret consultant to the National Security Council.
He was running special operations.
He, for example, had designed and created the Glomar Explorer, which was the special ship that was able to pick up submarines off the bottom of the ocean, if a Russian machine.
He also did the C 5A cargo plane out of the Summa Corporation, and he was also doing other stuff.
For the National Security Council, 5412 Committee.
We're talking about Howard Hughes, the guy who plays an aviator, right?
This is Howard Hughes.
And he's living in Las Vegas, you know, at one of the major mob hotels, and he's living in the Penthouse suites up there, right?
Right.
And so the bottom line is Richard Nixon contacts him as soon as Richard Nixon knew that Nelson Rockefeller had withdrawn and he was going to be the nominee, and he contacted Howard Hughes and on the secret phone for the 5412 Committee talked with him.
By phone and ask him to set up an assassination team to kill Fidel Castro, Raul Castro, and five of the commandantes that they wanted assassinated.
And he said, but you got to keep it completely away from the White House.
So that, but if you could get that done, that I would deeply appreciate that when I become president, right?
But if Howard Hughes, why would Howard Hughes set up an assassination team?
Well, when you know the nature of what some of the things were that Howard Hughes was doing with the 5412 committee, it was the deepest, darkest.
Most secret stuff that they were doing, and he was part of it.
Part of it.
It wouldn't help for me to go into what that one was, but there was an extremely, extremely super sensitive program that Howard Hughes was working on with them, in addition to the Glomar Explorer and the C5A and all that.
Because of the depth of the darkness of that relationship that he had, he knew that he could go in under that umbrella, that super dark program, and to get Hughes to do this.
Hughes doesn't agree or disagree with Nixon on the phone whether he's going to do it or not.
He's not done.
But what he did is he got one of his lawyers, Bob Mayhew.
And Bob Mayhew, he assigned to go get this done, see if they could put this team together.
Bob Mayhew Legal Strategy00:04:42
Bob Mayhew meets with Johnny Roselli.
Johnny Roselli is the bag man at the Sands Hotel that's owned by the mob.
And Johnny Roselli is in Las Vegas, where Howard Hughes is and where Bob Mayhew was.
And so Bob Mayhew gets a hold of Johnny Roselli and says, look, you guys.
You know, have every reason in the world to try to get rid of Castro.
You know, he shut down the whorehouses, he shut down the gambling casinos, and very important, he's cut off the heroin supply that's coming in to the C Supply Corporation.
So, if you guys would do this, you know, the president would be really grateful.
And they started referring to Nixon as the president because everybody assumed he was going to win, right?
And so, what, so Frank, so Johnny Roselli says, well, look, I'm going to have to go and see Giancana, you know, who's my principal here.
I can't do this.
So, I'd have to clear this through Giancana.
So, Johnny Roselli goes back to Chicago and meets with Giancana and says, Look, here's the Nixon who's going to get to be president now, wants this assassination team put together.
Can we do this?
And Giancana says, Well, that's Traficante's territory.
He's the Don of Havana.
And even though he's fled and he's up in Tampa now, he said, We're going to have to go meet with him to see whether he would okay this.
And so, what they do is they set up a meeting.
And Sam Giancana goes, and Johnny Roselli goes, and Bob Mayhew goes, and they meet down at the Fontainebleau Hotel in Miami with Traficante.
And they hold two meetings there to persuade him to do this, to set this thing up.
And then Traficante says to us, You know, he said, but I didn't fall off no melon wagon.
He said, So I'm going to check to make sure that this is coming directly from Nixon, not some, as he said, brain fart, you know, of Giancana or.
Of Howard Hughes or anybody else.
I wanted to.
And so the third meeting, they send a guy using the gnome de guerre of Mr. Ed, and it was Sheffield Edwards.
Sheffield Edwards was the chief of security for the Central Intelligence Agency under Eisenhower and Nixon administration.
And so he comes to the meeting and gives them the green light to put this assassination team together.
So they put the assassination team together, and Trafficanti is the guy that's going to put together the team.
And Trafficanti picks 15 guys.
That are former shooters for him out of Havana.
But he gets guys who've been recruited by the CIA to participate in a thing called Operation 40, which is a covert operation that they were running guerrilla raids into Cuba, burning bridges and blowing up, burning sugar fields and doing that stuff that they were doing.
That's Operation 40.
And they had recruited a whole bunch of former Traficante guys to participate in that who had fled from Havana and were up in Tampa and Miami.
This was the anti Castro Miami right wing hardball.
Anti Castro Cuban refugee community.
Alpha 66, the 2506 Brigade.
Yeah, that crowd.
Do you know Felix Rodriguez?
I sure do know Felix Rodriguez.
I've taken Felix Rodriguez's deposition.
You took his deposition?
Yeah.
Can you tell me about Felix Rodriguez?
Felix Rodriguez is a shooter.
He's one of the guys on the team that killed the president.
He and Rafael Chichi Quintero.
I'm going to interview him tomorrow.
Oh, well, that's who he is.
He'll know exactly who I am because he was the number one guy at Ilopango running the Contra weapons supply operations along with Rafael Chichi Quintero.
He and Rafael Quintero were in the security division at Pemex in Mexico City, where all the assassins hung out in Operation Condor.
He's a cold blooded fucking killer.
You know?
That's who he is.
Yeah.
Felix Rodriguez.
So he was on.
Yeah.
He was one of the Cuban assassins.
That's right.
That's exactly right.
That's exactly right.
And just ask him about Rafael Chichiquintero.
Tell him we've interviewed Rafael Chichiquintero so we know exactly what we're talking about.
You know?
So, ask him who Carl Jenkins is, you know, say, tell me about Carl Jenkins and tell me about how you got trained down in the down in Oaxaca, Mexico, at Clint Murchison Jr.'s ranch as part of the triangular fire team to kill Castro.
Tell us about that, Felix.
It's incredible how the universe just like falls into place.
Felix Rodriguez Interview00:02:33
See what he says about that.
Yeah.
Oh, my God.
So, a lady we just had in here by the name of Annie Jacobson is how I learned about Felix.
She wrote a book called Surprise, Kill, Vanish, all about the creation of the Title 51 CIA assassination teams.
And she followed a guy named Billy Waugh around different countries who was like, he started out in Vietnam, really, he just passed away.
But he was a CIA paramilitary guy who was like doing some brutal stuff in multiple different countries.
And he was the guy who captured Carlos the Jackal.
And one of the guys that she interviewed in that book was Felix Rodriguez.
And, um, yeah, she talks about how, like, some of the things he did didn't say anything you said, just none of the stuff you just said.
But she talks about some of the operations he did during the Bay of Pigs, yeah, and how he captured Che Guevara.
Yeah, ask him about his wristwatch when he's sitting there.
Ask him, he took Che's wristwatch.
He's got Che's wristwatch, he wears it.
Wow, yeah, he wears it to this day.
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Now back to the show.
So, okay.
How did you learn about Felix?
Like initially, how did you find out who he was?
Babel Language Course Deal00:06:25
Here's what happened is that here's Traficante telling us, explaining how they did this, right?
So, what they did is Traficante takes 15 of his guys, all of whom had been shooters for him down in Havana, right?
Gun guys.
And they are all, he takes guys that have all been recruited by the Central Intelligence Agency to work in Operation 40, which is running the raids down into Cuba, right?
And they've got five.
Paramilitary bases they've got one out on Swan Island, one at No Name Key, one of them in the Everglades, and two of them at Lake Pontchartrain, one on the southern border and one on the northern border.
The northern base at Lake Pontchartrain is where Lee Harvey Oswald was, working with the guys in New Orleans.
Right.
Okay.
And so the bottom line is they put 15 guys on this assassination team.
And the way they do it is they're all spread out in these five paramilitary operations, right?
And what they do is they send private planes around and pick them up individually and they fly them to Fort Huachuca in Arizona and they sign them in and then they all disappear.
And they take them down to Oaxaca, Mexico at Clint Mergeson Jr.'s ranch down there and they have a triangular fire team based down there.
And a guy named Carl Jenkins is training them.
What does triangular fire team mean?
They're high powered rifles.
They set up a triangular crossfire to get three different angles coming in to shoot and kill a target, a moving target.
Okay.
And they were trained down there and they were tasked to kill Castro.
And they were called the S Force, their code name.
Say that to Felix and watch how he responds to that one.
The S Force?
The S Force.
That's who they were.
And so they were tasked to try to kill Castro.
And what happened is that they were put together, they were assembled.
He picked the guys who were also in Operation 40 working with the CIA so that if any of them got caught, The agency would have to move in to protect them because people would think they're the ones that did it.
But they weren't.
But they did.
I mean, but it was Nixon that was asking to have it set up.
But it was set up by Howard Hughes and then Trafficanti set it up.
But he got the go ahead from Sheffield Edwards, who was chief of security for the CIA under Nixon, right?
And so that's how the thing was set up.
And they, but lo and behold, it turns out Nixon didn't get elected.
And Kennedy got elected, but Kennedy was not briefed on the existence of this group.
Okay, and what they did is they set up you're going to love this part.
They set up a mechanism for funding them.
And what they were doing is they were to fund the triangular fire team base down in Oaxaca at the ranch, at Clint Murchison's ranch.
What they did is they skimmed cash off the casinos in Vegas.
They would put them into these brand new suitcases and they'd put them in the trunks of brand new Cadillac automobiles and they would drive them from Las Vegas through New Orleans.
Where all the money would be audited by Marcelo's people, right?
And then they'd drive the money all the way to Miami and deposit it into Meyer Lansky's National Bank of Miami.
And then what they would do here it comes.
What they would do is they would wire some of that money down to the Banco Internacional down in Mexico City.
And there was a lawyer there by the name of Ogario.
And they put it into his account.
And that's where they wrote the checks from to pay for all the costs for the triangular fireteam base.
And that was the bank.
On which the money that was caught, found in Bernard Barker's pocket in the Watergate burglary came directly from that account.
Where Mark Felt was headed for.
Mark Felt was getting set to go down to the bank to find out what the hell the story is with that account when Pat Gray, who had become the new head of the FBI, instead of Mark Felt, freaked out about the fact that he was getting set to go down the next day on the 23rd of June following the 17th of June break in, right?
So he goes on the 21st of June.
Pat Gray goes to the White House to meet with John Dean.
And says to Dean, you know, we got a problem here.
You know, Mark Felt is getting set to go down to Mexico to this bank down there to track the sequentially numbered bills that were in Bernard Barker's pocket, one of the Watergate burglars.
And so John Dean goes and tells, what's his head, the chief of staff, what was his name?
The guy with the crew cut.
Anyway, tells him about the fact that Felt's getting set to go down to the bank and he needs to find out.
Whether that's going to be a problem.
And so the, what's the guy's name?
You're talking about the Mexico City Bank, right?
Yeah, the Mexico Banco Internacional.
Right.
And so the bottom line is the chief of staff comes in to talk with Richard Nixon in the Oval Office.
And he says, Mr. President, he says, I think we've got a problem here.
And Nixon says, What is it, John?
Right.
And he says, Pat Gray has just come in and has talked with John Dean.
And said that this guy Mark Felt is getting set to go down to this bank down in Mexico City to track this money that was in Bernard Barker's pocket.
He says, and he wants to know if that's going to cause any trouble.
There's a big long delay on the tape.
And Nixon says, look, you've got to go and get a hold of Ericman right away.
And you've got to go on over to the agency.
And you've got to sit down.
You've got to talk to Dick Helms and to Vernon Walters.
Both make sure they're in the meeting and tell them both that they've got to contact.
Of the FBI, the agency's got to contact the FBI.
Dick Helms is the head of the agency.
You've got to contact the FBI and tell them to get the hell out of that part of the investigation.
And so the chief of staff, I'm trying to remember his name still, says to him, Well, what am I going to tell them?
What am I going to tell them to say to make them get out of there?
Cuban Missile Crisis Context00:13:59
He says, Just tell them.
If you can't tear off that scab, if you tear off that scab, it's going to reveal an awful lot of things that can't get revealed.
So you just tell Dick Helms and Vernon Walters.
That if they don't get out of that right away, all the Mexico stuff is going to come out about the Bay of Pigs guys.
That's what he said.
That's the smoking gun conversation that nobody can figure out what it means.
Nobody can figure out what it means.
But that's exactly what he said.
Because as it turns out, the guys in the Watergate Hotel, in addition to the Cubans, were Howard Hughes and Frank Sturgis, as you may recall, along with G. Gordon Liddy.
Okay.
But it turns out that Frank Sturgis.
Was in control of one of the five paramilitary bases on No Name Key, right?
No, on Swan Island.
He was on Swan Island.
And the other one in the Everglades was E. Howard Hunt.
These were the CIA liaisons to those Cubano groups that were doing the assaults into Cuba.
And they were the liaison to the team of people that were put together to be the assassination team, right?
And so these.
For Castro.
For Castro, right.
That's right.
And so what happened.
Is that it wasn't the Bay of Pigs thing?
People keep thinking, oh, the CIA must have killed them because the Bay of Pigs, they were so upset.
That wasn't it.
It was the Cuban Missile Crisis.
The Cuban Missile Crisis in October of 62 that what had happened is that Khrushchev and Kennedy had become so totally traumatized by the fact that they'd come within minutes of a complete total nuclear annihilation of the planet that the two of them started having these secret communications.
And they were actually, they exchanged 18 letters that people don't know about through Cousins, his name was.
That was moving, was delivering the letters back and forth between Khrushchev and Kennedy.
And what they were doing is they were, the two of them were discussing disassembling the nuclear warheads of the entire nuclear arsenal of the United States and Russia.
And they just freaked out when they found out about this and said, this guy's got to go.
Kennedy.
Kennedy's got to go.
We can't wait for the election.
You know, this is November of 62, or 63, rather.
You know, it's a whole year before the election.
He's going to exercise his executive authority as the commander in chief to order the disassembling of the nuclear warheads.
And Khrushchev is going to do the same for the Soviet Union.
And it's going to be brokered by John XXIII.
Pope John XXIII is going to be the broker of making sure they both comply with this because Khrushchev liked him and trusted him.
And of course, Kennedy did too.
And that's the process that was underway.
And so what happened is the Cuban guys wanted to kill Kennedy because.
When the Cuban Missile Chrysalis had happened, he was so freaked out that he ordered the shutting down of all five of the bases.
Who was freaked out.
That Kennedy was so freaked out about how close they had come to having nuclear war that he promised Khrushchev that he would.
Because what happened is after the Bay of Pigs, Kennedy apologized, right, for having authorized the attempted invasion at the Bay of Pigs.
Yeah, and there was also.
There was declassified.
There were two operations.
I think one was called Northwoods, and there was another one.
Maybe it was just Northwoods, but they were going to have Northwoods.
They were going to fly a plane, a remote controlled plane, and blow it up and say the Cubans did it.
They were also going to have some Cubans killing people in Miami and D.C. Three things.
They were going to blow up an airplane and say that it had been done by Castro.
They were going to attack Guantanamo base.
They were actually going to dress up a number of Cuban refugees in Cuban military uniforms and attack and kill.
Personnel at the Guantanamo military base, and they were going to blow up shopping malls in Miami, specifically targeting members of the Cuban anti Castro Cuban refugee community to blow them up to totally make them hysterical so that they would then be able to blame it on Castro.
So, all of that stuff was going on.
But after the Bay of Pigs fiasco, Kennedy apologized and took responsibility for it.
And then what he did is he promised Khrushchev that he would stand down Operation 40 that was running the attacks under Nixon, that had been running the attacks on the island, right?
Against Cuba.
And against Cuba.
And so Kennedy said he was going to stand them down.
And then he went down to Miami and in the Orange Bowl did a big presentation to the Cuban community that he gave them his solemn word that the flag of a free Cuba would fly over the island by the end of his second term.
He gave them that promise, that solemn promise, right?
And the problem is, he didn't order them shut down.
Them shut down.
He had lied to Khrushchev, and they just transformed Operation 40 into a thing called JM Wave.
And they ran it off the Miami base.
They had a great big base called JM Wave, and they changed it from Operation 40 to Operation Mongoose, was the code name for it, right?
Right.
Okay, but he continued to run it.
And so what happened is when Khrushchev realized that Kennedy had lied to him after the Bay of Pigs and he was not standing down the operation, that's when he started sending the missiles in.
Right.
Okay.
And so he put all those missiles in.
And when Kennedy later in October of 62 found out about it, that's from April of 1960 when they actually had the Bay of Pigs thing happen, almost two years later in October when they discovered that the missiles were there.
But in the interim, what had happened is when the missile crisis came down in October of 62, Kennedy and Khrushchev, I said, were so freaked out by it that they started exchanging these letters.
In that they were trying to have a detente, and they were going to be not only was Kennedy going to agree to shut down the bases, but he ordered the shutting down of the bases.
And he said, This is for real this time.
He had lied before saying they were going to close them down, and they didn't, but now he ordered them to close down.
And Frank Sturgis from Swan Island, after receiving the order from the president to shut down all those bases, Frank Sturgis launched another attack against Cuba and sank a Russian ship in the harbor of Havana that could have caused a total shitstorm, you know, and would have caused Khrushchev to think that Kennedy was lying to him again.
So Bobby and John sent in six helicopter gunships filled with U.S. Marshals and burnt out Swan Island, the base, and arrested the people there, including Frank Sturgis and the guys.
And they arrested them and charged them with the violation of the Neutrality Act.
And the guys were furious at him, right?
And then he released them after three days, saying, That's a shot across the bow, knock it off, right?
But then E. Howard Hunt over in the Everglades started planning a second attack against Cuba in complete defiance of the orders of the president to shut down those bases and cease and desist from that program.
And Howard Hughes was getting set to do it again.
And Kennedy and Bobby and John sent in the helicopter gunships and burnt out the base in the Everglades and arrested them all and charged them.
And these guys were dedicated, they were going to kill this asshole, right?
And that was all in October, November, December, actually, December of 1962, all that happened, right?
And when Kennedy was then mounted, he was exchanging these letters with Khrushchev, right?
These 18 letters with Norman Cousins, delivering the letters back and forth, and they were planning to do this thing.
And one of the things that Kennedy was going to do as a show of good faith is on June 5th, 1963.
Same day that Walter Sullivan ended up reporting to Bobby that there was an assassination team that had been fielded to kill Castro, which they didn't even know about.
It's all total bullshit, people trying to lie and say that the Kennedys put together the assassination team to kill Castro.
Totally untrue.
It was Richard Nixon, and we've got it directly from Santos Traficante that gave us all the details of how it was done and when it was done and who was in it and everything, right?
And so what Kennedy did is on June 5th, 1963.
Walter Sullivan tells Bobby Kennedy about the assassination team.
Kennedy orders them to stand that operation down.
And what they do is, in defiance of the order, they put together one last attempt to go into the island of Cuba and assassinate Castro that took place between June 13th and 19th of 1963.
And it was guys from the assassination team, guys from the S Force.
And they were under the leadership.
We know exactly who ran them all.
One of my investigators was on the boat with them, actually.
When they went down there?
When they went down to the assassination, because he at the time was the.
Was the head of the Miami office of Life magazine.
And what's his head?
The guy, Henry Luce, who's the head of Time magazine in Life magazine, wanted to have a person on board when they got it so they could get the pictures of the people that went and assassinated Castro, right?
And so Dick Billings is on the boat, assigned to go on the boat with them.
And so we know perfectly well that they tried another assassination attempt against Castro on the 5th of May from the order.
To stand down on June 5th of 1963.
And on the same day, Kennedy, you know, demanded from the CIA all their UFO information.
Wanted to have all the UFO information because he was going to give that to Khrushchev because they wanted to show a show of good faith and they wanted to join together in the space program.
Kennedy offered Khrushchev partnership in a joint U.S. Soviet space program and was going to send to him the information about the UFO stuff.
Which has caused all kinds of people in the UFO community to go, oh, that's why they killed him.
The reason they killed him is because he was going to give up the UFO.
That wasn't it.
You know John Newman?
Yes, I know John.
He was just in here a couple days ago.
Yeah.
He's got a, I mean, he's written like 10 books.
He's written the books.
He's written all the books on JFK.
He's read all the documents, all the testified documents.
I know he does.
He hates when people talk about Daily Plaza.
He's like, it's the Daily Plaza water cooler.
It's all a distraction from what really happened.
He talks about the Colonel Lemitzer and Maxwell Taylor, who were the Joint Chiefs of Staff who had the siren.
And Curtis LeMay.
Curtis LeMay, yeah.
Big Curtis LeMay, absolutely.
Right.
And they had a big plan for a total nuclear annihilation of the Soviet Union and China and Armenia and all this stuff.
Oh, absolutely.
No, that whole operation was going down.
And they were almost completely out from under control of Kennedy, you know?
Right.
And so the bottom line is that what happened is that when they learned of the exchange of these letters and what Kennedy was getting ready to do, the team was already to want to kill him.
In fact, on the boat, on the Flying Tiger, Which was William D. Pauley.
William D. Pauley, big honcho, owned the big sugar mills down in Cuba and owned the private bus transportation lines in Cuba.
William D. Pauley, it was on his boat that they went down to try to do that assassination in the middle of June of 1963.
And Dick Billings is standing on the deck of the boat, the Flying Tiger II, along with William D. Pauley and Johnny Marino.
Johnny.
Johnny Martini is standing on the boat with him.
And what was the guy's name?
Rip Robertson was the guy's name.
Rip Robertson was the actual field commander for the S Force.
It wasn't Carl Jenkins, he wasn't the field commander.
He was the trainer for them.
But Rip Robertson was the field director for these guys, right?
And so Rip Robertson is standing on the boat.
William D. Pauley is standing there.
And Johnny Martino, his name was.
And Dick Billings are all standing there.
And Johnny Martino is just raging about the Kennedys, about what rotten bastards they are and how they lied and they gave their word that they were going to have a free flag of Cuba flying over there.
And he was raging like this.
And William D. Pauley turned to Johnny Martino in the presence of all those guys and said, Don't worry, Johnny.
We're going to kill that motherfucker.
And that was on June, that weekend of June 13th, 14th, 15th of 1963, on board the Flying Tiger II with Dick.
Billing standing right there next to him, and Dick has told me the entire story in detail and the first person proof of it being there, you know?
And so that's so when, as soon as he heard that the president had been killed, he knew, he said, I knew exactly who had done it.
Herbert Walker Policy Making00:15:04
And he became the chief of staff of the House Select Committee on Assassinations.
So do you think that these Cubans really wanted?
I mean, do you think that had anything to do with the actual assassination of Kennedy, or do you think it was the military just using these guys?
No, I mean, they're the ones that did it.
I mean, they're the ones that pulled the trigger.
But it was Alan Dulles.
It was Alan Dulles.
Not because he was disgruntled because he'd been fired as the head of the CIA.
The reason he was the head of the CIA is because he was general counsel for Braun Brothers Harriman.
Braun Brothers Harriman is the key to this thing.
Yeah.
He's going to sip us up in liquid death.
Murder your thirst.
Yeah.
Braun Brothers Harriman is the key to this thing because Braun Brothers Harriman was the group of Like 20 of the richest families in the country, the robber barons, all came together and formed this group called the Brown Brothers Harriman.
They were based in New York City.
And the heads of all of the Carnegies and the Rockefellers and the Harriman owned the rail lines and the steel mills, they owned the agribusiness corporations, they owned the cattle association.
These key elements of the major economy of the entire United States during the Robert Barron era.
Openly, I mean, that's who they were.
And they made policy together.
And the bottom line is the chief, the CEO for Brown Brothers Harriman was George Herbert Walker.
That's who he is.
That's the maternal grandfather of George Herbert Walker Bush and the great grandfather of George W. Walker Bush.
He's the guy.
And Alan Dulles was the legal counsel for Brown Brothers Harriman.
That's why he was appointed to be the first civilian head of the CIA.
And the guy who wrote the original memo to Truman recommending the creation of the CIA was Robert Lovett, who was a senior partner of Brown Brothers Harriman.
This was the crowd, and that just so you'll know, that George Herbert Walker in 1924.
Stepped down as the CEO at the end of World War I.
He stepped down in 1924 and handed over the CEO position to his son in law, Prescott Bush.
Right?
And then he went and set up the Union Bank of New York, which was capitalized by the major corporate guys that were the funders and the supporters of Brown Brothers Harriman.
Right?
They were the members in the investment group.
They capitalized the Union Bank of New York.
A foreign subsidiary of the Union Bank of New York in the Netherlands called the Bank of Shipping and Commerce, headed up by Fritz Theisen, they completely financed the construction of the international headquarters of the Third Reich.
Absolutely stone cold verified, right?
Because there was their intention to have Germany rise to power again after the end of World War I, and then they would become the bulwark against Bolshevism in Europe because the Bolsheviks had taken over and ousted Tsar Nicholas II at the end of World War I and withdrawn Russia from World War I.
And the Secretary of State under Wilson.
Whose name was Robert Lansing.
Robert Lansing was married to the oldest daughter of John W. Foster, who was the grandfather of John Foster Dulles and Alan Dulles.
He was the Secretary of State in 1893, that overthrew the Hawaiian Islands, overthrew Guam.
Their whole plan was to have Germany stand astride all of Europe as the bulwark against Bolshevism, and they would go westward.
Output transcript Out into the Pacific, and they would develop the entire Asian market.
That was what Brown Brothers Harriman was all up to.
That's what they were going to be doing.
They were funding the rise of the Third Reich to control Germany.
And what they did, you will love this one, what they did is Robert Lansing, who was his son in law, right, of John W. Foster, or yeah, that he is Secretary of State under Wilson, is the one that dispatched the foreign missionary.
Foreign expeditionary force into Russia to try to crush the Bolsheviks.
It was a straight up military operation run by the United States to send a foreign military expeditionary force into Russia to try to crush the Bolshevik revolution in the cradle, which you almost never hear about.
The reason I know about it, because I had Gov 122 from Henry Kissinger at Harvard College.
He was my professor in foreign, United States American foreign policy.
So we know about this, right?
And so John W. Foster, his son in law, Robert Lansing, is the one that ordered them in.
Try to crush the Bolshevik Revolution.
And he is the guy that supervised the Treaty of Versailles in 1918, right?
And he took his two nephews, who were John Foster Dulles and Alan Dulles, who were the grandsons of John W. Foster, he was their maternal grandfather, right?
And he put them into the staff of the Versailles Treaty negotiation.
They're the ones that drafted into the Versailles Treaty the reparations demands against Germany.
Okay.
And so they imposed the reparations demands on Germany that had lost World War I.
And then what they did is they turned around and negotiated loans from the people that were in Brown Brothers Harriman, the investors, to pay, give loans to the German government to pay the reparations, which were being paid to corporations who had lost property in the war.
Okay.
And then what they did is in exchange for the loans, they took stock in their major war industry.
The corrupt ball bearing factories and IG Farben, chemical corps.
So these guys ended up owning major shares of the war industry in Germany.
And what they were doing is financing the rebuilding of the entire military machine of Germany at the same time they were actually funding through the Union Bank of New York in the Internet, the Bank of Shipping and Commerce in the Netherlands, building and financing the entire rise of the Third Reich to establish them as the bulwark against Bolshevism in Europe.
When they turned their attention westward, To go out into the Pacific and take over the Hawaiian Islands and Guam and the Marshall Islands, et cetera, marching their way onto Asia so they could develop the Asian markets there.
That's what they call the China Lobby.
That's the group that was at Brown Brothers Harriman.
And the reason it's so important is because when Kennedy was talking about disassembling the warheads of the nuclear arsenal of the United States along with Russia's, that totally freaked them out because they knew that they needed to have the nuclear weapons not against Russia, against China.
Because China could put a billion men in uniform in the field against them as they showed them at Incheon in Korea.
They had already showed that.
And so that's what they were worried about.
But also, this was the time, this was a specific time when we had the most nuclear weapons.
That's right.
Russia had the least.
That's right.
And Russia was willing to disband all the Russian missiles.
And China was agreeing to never build any missiles if the United States would just stop building them and would disarm.
And just like with poison gas at the end of World War I, the mustard gas, don't do this anymore.
It's completely a violation of all the rules of war.
It's a complete violation of the just war theory.
Nuclear weapons are inherently designed to destroy civilian populations by the millions.
It's a complete and total violation of the just war theory.
We wrote about this at Jesuit headquarters when I was there as general counsel in their social ministry office.
Brian Hare wrote a major piece about their just war theory.
We got the Jesuit order to agree to condemn the mere possession of nuclear missiles as a mortal sin because it's inherently designed to violate the premises of the just war theory.
Oh, this is a little more complex than you need.
But the bottom line is that we've been on top of this for years of monitoring what these people have been doing, okay?
And that's what they did.
So, that whole operation, when Kennedy, being so traumatized at coming right to the brink of thermonuclear holocaust, started exchanging the letters with Khrushchev to disassemble the nuclear warheads of the United States nuclear arsenal and all of Russia's, these guys said, that's it.
This guy's got to go.
We can't leave him in place because he's going to have another whole year to do this.
And that's why they ordered the killing.
And the fact is, the team was there.
It was fully prepared, fully trained.
They had maintained an arm's length relationship from them.
It wasn't tracked directly to the White House unless somebody ratted out Richard Nixon, right?
And so what happened is when Kennedy ends up getting killed and people said, holy shit, it's the S Force that killed him, the agency rolled right into place and started covering up everything.
Started destroying evidence, started lying, started doing everything because they were terrified that they'd be blamed for killing the president.
And Richard Nixon did the same thing.
He was terrified that he was going to get blamed for killing the president.
And so what happened is Lyndon Johnson reached out to Warren, Earl Warren, the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, and said, We need to have you head up the Warren Commission to investigate the assassination.
But the one thing you can't do.
Do not reveal the fact that there was an assassination team that was in the field to kill Fidel Castro.
Because if that ever leaks out, people are going to think that Castro found out about the assassination team that the Kennedys put together to kill him and probably killed him.
And if they do that, we're going to be into World War III.
And that's how he got Earl Warren to agree to chair the Warren Commission.
And who he put on it to run the commission is Alan Dulles.
Yeah, why did they get Alan Dulles to run the commission?
Because he would be able to keep everything clean.
He totally kept it locked down.
Absolutely.
And that's what they did.
Felix Rodriguez wasn't a part of that team that killed Kennedy, though, right?
Yes, he was.
Stop.
That's what I just got there telling you.
He was on the S Force.
It was the S Force.
He was there in Dealey Plaza.
Yeah, yes, he was.
Yeah, as was Ed Lansdale, as was Rip Robertson.
There are photographs of Rip Robertson standing right there.
Are there photographs of Felix there?
No.
Then how do we know for sure he was there?
Because he was a major part of the S Force.
Yeah, but we have no proof he was actually there.
There's no photos.
If you don't have photos, it doesn't mean you don't have the proof.
I mean, the fact is.
Yes, it does.
No, no.
Oh, wait.
But you need other kind of evidence.
You need other evidence.
You need paper trails.
All kinds of evidence of who the S Force was.
And there's one guy remaining living who could tell everybody about it.
You know, but he hasn't done it yet.
What evidence do we have that Felix was actually there, though?
Because Rafael Chichi Quintero told us so.
Oh, oh.
Rafael Quintero.
Because Quintero was there, too.
Morales, the Indian, was the guy that pulled the trigger, that killed him from the knoll.
That was Roger Morales.
He was the ace shooter for the S Force, you know?
What did Felix say when you deposed him?
Well, he wouldn't talk about anything.
All they ever said is, you know, I take the Fifth Amendment.
Has he ever acknowledged anything about the team that was sent to Cuba to kill Castro?
He's never even admitted that he was in charge of the Ilopango operation, providing weapons to the Contras.
Really?
Yeah.
Are you aware of the Kiki Camarena case?
Oh, sure I am.
Sure I am.
Do you think Felix was part of that?
Was there?
Well, it was Operation Condor that killed him, and Condor was based out of Pemex, out of the Mexican National Oil Corporation.
Jose Diaz Serrano, who was the head of Pemex, was the former business partner with George Bush Sr. in the Zapata Oil Corporation.
And they hid out the assassination team in Pemex's security department.
That's where Rafael Chichi Guintero and Felix Rodriguez asked Felix about that.
Ask him, what were you doing in the Pemex security department in Mexico City?
And that's Condor.
That's that whole operation, the assassination teams that were deployed in South America were all run out of Pemex.
And the reason they wanted to get at Kiki Camarena is because he was being really loud about what went on with Iran Contra.
Well, no, the drug smuggling stuff.
I mean, Kiki Camarena was the major DEA guy.
He was a close friend of Michael Levine's.
Michael Levine was one of the top undercover guys in DEA.
And Kiki Camarena was killed for that reason.
But there's a guy at.
Because he was stopping the drugs, right?
And we didn't want that to be stopped.
Not that we didn't want them to be stopped.
They were running them.
Right, right.
I interviewed face to face the deputy CIA station chief, Joseph Brookholder Smith, who sat right there and told me all about the details.
He had been actually brought to a meeting in Mexico City by what's his name?
The guy that was head of the DFS in Mexico.
Nasser Haro.
Oh, pull your mic closer.
Yeah.
Yeah.
He was, he was, he was, Joseph Burkholder Smith.
He was like this, too.
Joseph Burkholder Smith was brought to a meeting actually by Nasser Haro, who was the head of the DFS in Mexico, and sat down right in a place called Salta in the northern tip of Argentina.
He sat in the meeting with these guys sitting right at the table, this big oaken table with the big stone fireplace behind them with a swastika on the mantel in there and said, Look, he said, There's been some discussion that Tom Polgar.
Has just been made the new head of the station here in Mexico City.
Paul Wolfowitz Meeting Details00:09:13
And it's not clear whether you're going to be left on, Joe, Joseph Burkholder Smith.
It's not clear you're going to be left on as his deputy.
So, what we wanted to do is have a talk with you.
You know, we have spent a lot of time and energy creating a major cocaine cartel down in Colombia.
And we're going to be moving the cocaine into the United States.
And a portion of those funds are going to be used to help finance our war without boundaries against your enemies and ours.
And we want to make sure that if you're going to be left in place, that you aren't going to do anything to interfere with that.
Joseph Brookholder Smith said to me, Look, Danny, he said, I don't know what I'd ever done in my life that would have led them to believe that I would have gone along with that.
And I said, How about being the deputy CIA station chief in Mexico City for a start?
And he turned to Dick Billings, who was sitting there with me, who was the chief of staff for the House Select Committee on Assassinations by that time.
And he said, Hey, I thought this guy was going to cooperate with us.
And Dick said, Look, I just met the guy.
So those are all detailed stories of people with firsthand knowledge.
Of what it is that they've been doing.
Now, they feel perfectly righteous about it.
I don't doubt that Rafael Chichi Quintero and Felix Rodriguez and Morales and Rolando Martinez and Ricardo Chavez and all the guys that were on the shooter team thought that they were totally righteous in doing what they were doing.
They ended up stopping the guy who was, in their mind, a total whoremonger and a lying sack of shit who was president, who basically father bought him the offices that he got.
That's how they viewed Kennedy.
Yeah, that's how they viewed Kennedy.
And he was getting set to use his power to disassemble the nuclear warheads of our entire nuclear arsenal.
And so they said, Put the button on this guy.
Wow.
You're like a walking historical information machine.
Well, I was at Jesuit headquarters for 10 years.
I mean, they didn't get their reputation for nothing.
The amount of knowledge you have is incredible, man.
It is amazing to sit here and listen to you talk about some of this stuff.
There are very few people who have got direct firsthand information directly from Santos Traficante about the details of putting together the entire assassination team and what his direct relationship is to the Watergate burglary.
Nobody knows about the sequentially numbered bills in Bernard Barker's pocket coming from the Banco Internacional, except for Mark Flint.
You know, that he knew it.
Right.
You know, and he's Deep Throat.
Wow.
That's who he is.
You know, Mark Felt.
You know, that's the guy.
Why do they call him Deep Throat?
That was the nickname that Bob Woodward gave him because he was the source of Deep Throat in the Watergate burglary.
He's the one that kept meeting with Bob Woodward in the garage and pointing him towards it.
He said, Follow the money.
He said, Follow the money.
And as soon as they got to the money and they discovered the money that had been deposited into the committee to re elect the president had been deposited down in the Ogario account in Mexico City in the Banco Internacional, they said, oh, bingo.
We've got Richard Nixon's committee to re elect the president funding the people in the Watergate Hotel.
That's it.
Bango.
We're stopping right there.
And they never went in deeper and discovered what the hell's the story on that particular fund that's down there.
It would lead right back to the assassination team.
That killed the president, you know?
And they settled for it.
Bob Woodward and Bernstein settled for the half a story.
I mean, it was a big hat, a big story that they got funds that had been given a check from, what's his name?
He wrote the check that went into the bank, into the Banco Internacional down in Mexico City, you know, from the committee to re elect the president.
Now, Macon was head of the CIA.
Yeah, he didn't know shit.
They wouldn't tell him anything.
But was Helms before Cohn?
Richard Helms?
No, Helms got indicted for lying to the Congress.
He was lying and saying that one of the things he lied about is that the Phoenix program only killed 20,000 people, whereas they killed vastly more than that.
Remind me what the Phoenix program was?
The Phoenix program was the political assassination program that was run by Theodore Shackley, who was the CIA station chief in Saigon.
In that they were using money from the drug money from Bang Pao to finance the Phoenix program.
And Helms, the man who guards the secrets, he's the one that committed perjury to Congress to hide the family jewels and ended up getting ousted.
He was also the guy who burned all the MKUltra documents, right?
Well, it was under him.
It was him personally, yeah.
Just like the CIA burned all the videos of the Abu Ghraib torture sessions.
They were ordered by Congress to cough them up and they burnt them all.
What we're dealing with is a national security state that's out of control here.
They're completely self righteous about what it is they think they're doing.
Anybody who grew up in the same way that Felix Rodriguez did and Rafael Chichi Quintero and those guys, their whole world is.
They're knowledgeable about what they view as the corrupt nature of Kennedy.
You know, I mean, and they were all sharing the stories about him fucking anybody who would bend over and, you know, and he was on drugs and he was, you know, his back was out and he was half on drugs.
You know, that's the kind of stories that are going around inside all about him.
You know, and Chichi Quintero and these guys were sitting at the kitchen table with my guy, Gene Wheaton, who was the chief of security for the U.S. military mission in Tehran.
And who was supplying airplanes to the Contras to fly the drugs and guns around, you know, sitting right at the table listening to them talk about the plans that they had to kill the president.
That is nuts, man.
Yeah, but it's not.
That's the problem.
It really is, man.
Like, how do you.
What is your worldview of the United States of America and the security state and things?
the whole military industrial complex and where we're headed.
Are you at all optimistic with all this information that you know and the people that you've talked to and the cases that you've been involved with?
Even going back to the Pentagon Papers, look at where we're at now in the media.
I'm sure you're familiar with the Twitter files, right?
Oh, yes.
Where do you think all this is headed?
Well, I think, to be pointed, I think that the UFO issue presents the greatest possible opportunity.
For unveiling the lengths to which the national security state has gone in taking over the control of the government of the United States, and that they're fascists.
I mean, that the people who created the Central Intelligence Agency, they're fascists.
And they believe that the most effective way of running the government is to deploy the instrumentalities of the state.
On behalf of the interests of the major corporations, they believe that what's good for General Motors is good for the country.
And that if you can, and they've got a, you ought to get a copy of the 1992 United States Defense Department policy planning guidance document that was put out directly after Gorbachev stood back.
You know, Gorbachev disassembled the Soviet Union on December 31st of 1991.
He released all of them.
The following Monday, you know, Paul Wolfowitz, You know, under Dick Cheney, who's the Secretary of Defense for George Bush Sr., you know, convenes his group of people in the West Wing of the White House.
And you got Paul Wolfowitz, and it's under Dick Cheney.
You got Scooter Libby.
You got Doug Fife.
You got Richard Pearl.
You know, they're all there.
And they're all the special group inside the Defense Department, right?
Under Dick Cheney, under Bush.
And they draft up the 1992 United States Defense Department policy, planning, guidance document.
American Imperialism Doctrine00:05:23
And they're saying, oh, good.
The Soviet Union has stood back out of the Cold War.
They've stood down.
And now we're going to have all kinds of pressure put on us to try to cut the military budget.
Because for the last 50 years, we've been justifying spending now up to $700 billion a year on the military because we have to stop the Soviet Union from taking over the world.
And that's the rationale that's been put forth for all this time for this massive military program.
The United States spends more money on the military every year than the next 10 countries in the world.
It's insane.
We've got 800 military bases all around the world, and we're invading places all over the place.
Most people don't even know about it.
Everyone focuses on Ukraine and what's going on in Palestine, but there's so many other wars that are going on.
And what I'm saying is that this operation has this from the age of the robber barons, in the age of the robber barons that began in 1868 after the American Civil War, by 1872, they had actually come up with this concept of creating this new private.
Private shareholder owned corporations, and that this business entity actually immunizes the owners of the company from any personal liability whatsoever for whatever the corporation does.
That's an essential element of the creation of the new business vehicle of the private shareholder owned corporation.
So that the corporation itself is the only thing that's liable for anything the corporation does, the shareholders are completely immunized.
And the board of directors are personally immunized, okay?
And even the management people are personally immunized.
Personally immunized.
You can only sue the company itself because the company itself is a person.
You see, it wasn't the Citizens United that came up with that idea.
You know, that was what the whole fight was about back in 1934 when the whole court packing issue with Franklin Roosevelt, when he was offering to, was threatening to appoint more people to the Supreme Court.
It was because the United States Supreme Court kept ruling consistently that corporations were persons who were entitled to fundamental rights under the Constitution.
And therefore, You couldn't interfere with, you couldn't regulate their advertising because it's free speech.
And you couldn't interfere with their right to contract, which is a constitutional right that people have.
The freedom of the contract is right in the Constitution.
And so, therefore, you can't support labor unions because it's interfering with the right of the corporation to negotiate one on one with people for a contract for their employment.
And they were ruling this over and over again, all right after the 1929 crash.
By 1932, when Franklin Roosevelt was elected, Franklin Roosevelt started issuing all these executive orders, trying to get control over the excesses of the corporate investors and the corporations that had run roughshod over things, right?
And so, what he was doing is issuing all kinds of federal executive orders.
And this group of people, Brown Brothers Harriman people, the DuPonts particularly, were engaged in planning a military overthrow of Franklin Roosevelt in 1934.
That whole thing with General Butler.
They tried to recruit him to mount a major military coup against the United States government.
So, I mean, this thing comes right out of the robber barons who had created this particular device, this business vehicle of a private shareholder owned corporation that was deemed to be its own independent person.
And liability ran just to the corporation, and all the rest of the people were immunized against any personal liability.
Mandate was to maximize the short term profits for the purposes of giving shareholders income from the income that they made.
And that vehicle is a sinful structure.
That's what we designated it as at Jesuit Headquarters.
It's an inherently sinful structure because it's driven by greed and self interest and avarice.
And in fact, you can be dismissed as a member of the board of a corporation if you take into account the public interest.
It's called the doctrine of ultraveres.
It's called, you know, and it's a specific doctrine.
It's in the books of the law over corporations.
And so what happened is those corporations between 1872, when they first established that as a new business vehicle, between 1872 and 1898, when McKinley came to power in 1898, and his Mark Hanna was his.
His kind of major advisor.
And Mark Hanna said that the greatest ambition that any human being could possibly have is to earn as much money as he possibly can before he dies.
That's the quote from Mark Hanna.
And that's McKinley, right?
And they had risen to the power in 1898, where it became the age of the robber barons, right?
And it was also, not coincidentally, the age of American imperialism.
Gold and Silver Operations00:13:18
And it's called that in history books.
It's the age of American imperialism.
And it was the person who sort of supervised that whole age of American imperialism was John W. Foster, who was the Secretary of State.
And he's the one that, as I said, overthrew the Hawaiian Islands, Guam, the Marshall Islands, all moving out across the Pacific.
That was what their whole objective was.
And they were operating right out of Brown Brothers Harriman, who were in charge of organizing the Versailles Treaty under Robert Lansing, who was the son in law of John W. Foster, who was the grandfather of John Foster Dulles and Alan Dulles.
And Alan Dulles was the legal counsel for Brown Brothers Harriman, where these families were all together.
Cooperating in planning how to take over the American government and how to put the instrumentalities of the government at the behest of the interests of the private corporations.
That's why they sent a United States military expeditionary force in 1903 into Nicaragua to overthrow the government down there on behalf of United Fruit, who was a client of Sullivan and Cromwell.
Sullivan and Cromwell was the law firm that Alan Dulles and John Foster Dulles were members, were partners in, being legal counsel for Brown Brothers Harriman.
That's who these people are.
I mean, these people get up and put their pants on one leg at a time, just like anything else.
If you investigate them closely enough, you'll find it.
If you can remember the names of everybody, if you can remember the pattern of where they are, you go, oh, yeah, there they are again.
Oh, here they are again.
Here's the bank.
They're the ones doing it.
And so we know who they are.
We know what their lineage is.
And we know that these are the people, for example, that in 1945, December, After the dropping of the atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
Remember, the Nazis in Germany had surrendered in May of 1945, but the Japanese had not.
And so the Japanese knew that the entire Allied forces were going to turn their attention to Japan, right?
And so they started removing all the gold and silver and platinum and jewels and stuff that had been garnered over a 30 year period by the Japanese Empire, had been sweeping all through South Asia.
You know, in taking all the gold and silver and platinum and everything and bringing it into Japan as their war chest for the major imperial war that Japan was getting ready to mount.
Okay.
And they had all of those riches that were there.
So what they did is they smuggled them out and they moved them into the Philippines and they buried them in 176 separate tranches in the Philippines, like 700 feet deep, the huge mine shafts that they built.
And they did it with slave labor.
And the people who dug the mine shafts and they buried 100.
The Japanese were doing this.
The Japanese were doing this.
100 billion dollars each.
Each trove, 176 troves of 100 billion dollars each in gold.
I mean, the photographs that you can see, they're shoulder high stacks of gold bullion as big as football fields.
You can see them.
And they buried them in the Philippines, right?
And the G2 for the United States Army in Manila was Ed Lansdale.
Edward Lansdale had been an OSS guy, and Truman disbanded the OSS as soon as the Nazis surrendered in May of 1945.
So he distributed everybody from the OSS out around the world, right?
And Ed Lansdale ended up being the G2 in Manila, and he knew that the guy who was in charge of gathering all of that gold and silver together. Was a guy named General Yakushima.
General Yakushima was the guy who ran a thing called the Golden Lily, the Chinese codename for the unit that was into pilfering all the gold and silver and platinum all through Asia and bringing it into Japan.
And he supervised the burying of these 176 troves in the Philippines.
And what happened is Ed Lansdale, when General Yakushima turned himself in and surrendered after the Japanese surrendered, he kidnapped the driver.
For Yakushima and had him tortured to find out where some of these treasures were.
And they actually found 12 of these out of the 176 $1.2 trillion at $32 an ounce of gold, which is now like $1,400 an ounce, right?
And what they did is they punched one of those, and he, yeah, there they are.
This is people don't understand it.
Yamashita.
General Ian Moshita is the guy that stored all this gold there.
And Ed Lansdale got his hands on 12 of these troves for $1.2 trillion.
And he had Truman, McCarthy, General McCarthy, set up a private trust under Truman that was run by Brown Brothers Harriman for $1.2 trillion.
They just took all of it.
They took the 12 of them, the $1.2 trillion, and they shipped it all out.
And they put it in the International Credit Bank in Geneva, Switzerland, and issued gold certificates on it to pay for covert operations.
Completely independent from Congress.
Never told Congress about it at all.
To this day, they have never told Congress about it.
They've been using it as covert operations.
You still got some?
They've got all of it still.
They haven't run through.
No, because what they did is they issued gold certificates.
They didn't have to do anything with the gold, they left it there.
What they did is they issued gold certificates that are just like bearer bonds, and they used them for cash.
It's a major source of funds for the covert operations.
Wow.
You know, I mean, that's what we've been dealing with all this time.
That's how people kept saying, How in the world did these people know all this stuff?
You know, they were going crazy because we set up the Christic Institute out of Washington, D.C., out of the Jesuit headquarters.
We set up the Christic Institute as a 501 public interest law firm.
And I had access to all these investigators out of Bailey's office.
You know, we had like 30 Class A licensed gun toters that were investigators for us, you know, and we're in the public interest domain.
Because most all of these guys want to be good guys, you know, and that they've gotten perverted.
You know, they come in to try to do right and they discover that the people they work for, major corporations, you know, CIA or government agencies, that they're corrupted.
And so we set up the Christic Institute, which gave everybody a chance to be good guys, you know, and try to just find out what's going on and what they're doing, you know.
And if you disagree with what they're doing, you know, then tell us.
So, the bottom line is we've been in this business now for like 50 years.
And we ran the Kristic Institute for 20 years in Washington, D.C. We've run the Romero Institute for 20 years in California because George H.W. Bush ordered the revocation of our 501c3 tax exempt charter for the Kristic Institute because of our bringing the Iran Contra federal criminal racketeering charges against the off the shelf enterprise.
Off the shelf enterprise.
And we just exposed everything about them and their drug smuggling and the assassination programs and everything.
And when the judge in Miami dismissed our case because he excluded four eyewitnesses who, in the case, who could verify this case we brought under the Federal Criminal Racketeering Act, he dismissed the case.
And George Bush contacted his politically appointed head of the Internal Revenue Service.
and directed him to yank our 501 tax exempt charter on the grounds that nobody had been ultimately criminally convicted of the charges that we made against them, even though six of them had already been indicted by the special prosecutor, Lawrence Walsh, right, for exactly what we charged them with.
And then he pardoned them after he was beaten in the 1992 election in November by Bill Clinton, but more importantly, by Ross Perot.
Who took 19% of the vote away from George Bush?
Because Ross Perot was the guy, I was flying around in his Learjet with him, telling him all about this.
And Ross Perot was the guy that brought the complaint to the FBI, to Bill Webster.
And that's why they initiated the investigation of the Iran Contra people.
And so Ed Meese caught his hair on fire and freaked out and ran in and held an immediate press conference going, Oh, what do you know?
Faith and Bagoda.
We discovered that there's this young renegade Lieutenant Colonel Oliver North, who's Run off and basically gone recruiting old retired military people on the golf courses around Virginia and set up this kind of off the shelf enterprise.
Oh, we better have a special prosecutor appointed.
And I, Ed Meese, will draft up the charter to limit their investigation to whether the president directly authorized the transfer of the profits that were generated by the sale of tow missiles to the Hezbollah to the Contras under Adolfo Calero.
Whether he did that, you know, and whether the president authorized that in writing.
And if he did, then he could get in trouble.
But if he didn't, then we're all okay.
And so he crafted the charter for the special prosecutor in the Iran Contra case so narrowly that he thought he was going to get away with it.
And not only that, but the person they selected to be the special prosecutor to investigate it was Lawrence Walsh, you know, a noted Republican.
And it turns out Lawrence Walsh.
Was the lawyer's senior partner in Crow Dunleavy, which is the law firm we kicked the absolute shit out of in the Karen Silkwood case for $10.5 million?
And they thought that he was just furious with us because we destroyed his reputation as a law firm and we just mopped the floor with them in that case because we had everything on him, you know?
And they picked him to be the special prosecutor and it backfired because he knew we were right.
I mean, he'd already paid the price for not understanding that we knew what we were doing.
And so we were the very first ones contacted by Lawrence.
Walsh to fill him in on what was going on.
And he indicted the shit out of these people.
I was going after all of them.
And he was going after George Bush Sr., who was totally involved in it.
George Bush, who was the vice president under Reagan, is the one who coordinated the whole off the shelf enterprise as the head of the 5412 committee, just like Nixon had been under Eisenhower.
He was the head of the 5412 committee as the vice president.
Nixon's national security or Bush's national security advisor, Donald P. Gregg, was having direct face to face meetings with Felix Rodriguez, okay, who was running the Ilopongo air operation, delivering the weapons and smuggling the cocaine right on the same airplanes.
In fact, the head of the DEA took photographs of them loading the cocaine onto the planes and gave them to us, you know, so that we had them.
Another guy I've had on here who I have a.
Nervous, you might know who he is.
Is Rick Prado?
I've heard of Rick Prado, but I don't, I've not interviewed him.
Yeah.
Okay.
He was not working directly with, I don't think he was working with Felix, but he knows Felix.
Yeah.
And Rick was sent down to Honduras to train the Sandinistas or the Contras?
No, the Contras.
The Contras.
The Contras.
Yeah.
He was sent down under Jack Singlap.
Right.
Yeah.
He was sent down there to train the Contras.
Yeah.
And that's Prado.
Yeah.
And yeah, yeah.
And he was.
You know, part of that whole paramilitary operation, and um, after that, he was actually sent back to CIA and put through the whole spy class, spy school.
And then he went down to um Costa Rica, yeah, for sure, the southern border of Nicaragua, and like doing all kinds of that's where Hull's Ranch was, that's John Hull's Ranch in Costa Rica, where they flew the stuff in and out of all the time.
That was the guy, yeah, he was there doing all kinds of crazy, yeah, no, he was.
I've done his deposition too, really, yeah, yeah.
You've been everywhere.
Not everywhere, but just enough to be able to tell what's going on.
Pentagon Papers Legal Defense00:06:41
Yeah.
One of the things I think about a lot is if the military or some of these military contractors had information or had technology that would render them useless.
Who them?
Or render who them?
That would render.
Any sort of nuclear weapon or any sort of war machine completely useless, right?
Like, if there was some sort of technology they had that they didn't fully understand how to use that we knew was real, right?
Not even, I'm not even talking about where it was from.
Like, say it was, who knows where it was from?
Yeah, let's not pretend it's from the UFOs, right?
Let's pretend, let's just say, okay, let's just say they found it washed up on a beach somewhere and we had multiple of these things and we knew other countries had these things too.
Yep.
What would they do if they had the technology and they knew if whatever is behind the technology would completely change the world and it would completely change the dynamic of nation states, right?
Like if war was no longer a driving factor and it would destroy their business model because that's, How they survive is from developing weapons and doing all this blue sky research on how to do all this sci fi shit that DARPA's doing.
It makes sense that they would want to keep it a secret.
And I don't know what it would take to make that stuff come to light.
And I don't see them letting go of it.
Well, the problem is, it's even worse than that.
It's one step worse than that.
That in the 1992 United States Defense Department policy planning guidance document that I told you about, that they drafted up starting on the Monday morning after the dissolution of the Soviet Union, what they did is they put this document together and they said the reason that we don't want to step back and reduce our military budget just because the Soviet Union has been disbanded now and that we've been rationalizing the $700 billion a year on the grounds that we had to protect ourselves against them.
The reason that we want to have, we want to increase the military budget because now we have the chance to establish.
Full spectrum dominance over the planet.
And the purpose of this will be to maintain, quote, to maintain our continued privileged access to the strategic raw materials needed by our major corporations.
Okay?
Because that's what they do.
And they view that as they are Rome.
They are the aggressor.
Right.
You asked me what my idea about the national security is.
They are the aggressors on the planet.
Okay?
And what they're doing is they're working at the behest of the major corporations.
And the wealthiest families that own the shares of stock.
It's just as bad as you think it is.
They view their job as securing their continued privileged access to the strategic raw materials.
I've sat and had direct conversations with the people that will tell you that if there's some third world country that is sitting on some sort of major resource that turns out to be of real value economically or militarily for us, if we don't go get it first, China or Russia will go get it.
So we'll go get it first.
And that's aggressive war.
That is a violation of every single premise of a just war theory.
You are the aggressor.
You are the bad guy.
I had the experience when I got ready to leave to go to college.
I grew up with my aunt and uncle.
And my uncle was the head of the Republican County Committee up in Warren County, up in northern New York.
And I'm getting set to leave to go down to Boston to go to college.
He brings me out.
He's the civil defense director for the whole county.
And he goes out and we stand in our front yard.
And from our front yard, you look north into Canada, and for 100 miles, all there are is forests, the Adirondack Forest Preserve, right?
And Uncle Jim says to me, Danny, he says, you're going down to college now.
I don't want you to become a communist, you know, going down there.
He said, you know, I want you to look out here now.
There's going to be a day will come when the Russians are parachuting into our hometown.
And I want you to commit to me right now that when the Russians parachute into our town, that you will fight against them.
And I said, look, Jim, I said, Jim, The Russians aren't going to be parachuting into our hometown.
I said, but I'll tell you what I will do.
I will take an oath to protect the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
Right.
And then I left.
Okay.
I go back down to go to college.
Right.
I'm in, before I get to Harvard College, I'm in special forces, right, for two years, right, in the fifth special forces.
And I'm out at Fort Devons.
We're getting set to do the halo jump, you know, the high altitude low.
We get set to do the halo jump.
And they bring the spec four.
From a fifth army, uh, special forces, and he's sitting there telling us, Look, okay, now you gotta remember now, uh, you know, when you're you jump into the night, you know, you're up at like 38,000 feet, you jump out, you know, your time you drop.
And he said, When you drop in, he said, Uh, you gotta make sure anybody who sees you come in, you gotta kill them immediately and bury them with your chute because they were trained to drop in behind the lines in Vietnam, right?
And he said, And I said, I'm standing there with our unit, and I say, Well, wait a second, what if it's women or children?
Kill him, he said, and bury him with your chute.
We're the fucking Russians, I said.
That's exactly what Uncle Jim was hypothesizing of them jumping into our fucking neighborhood, right?
And here we are going 8,000 miles away, jumping into the neighborhood of people that have been there for 5,000 years.
And we're jumping into their neighborhood.
And I'm sitting here being told at Fort Devons, you know, in special forces that you jump in and you kill the women and children if you have to and bury them with your chute.
And I turned around right then and I walked right out of the place.
Turn around, walked away.
And Captain Campbell, my commander, said, Sheehan, where the fuck do you think you're going?
I turned around and I said, Don't look at it.
Somebody around here is fucking nuts, I said.
Justifying Aggressive Wars00:04:13
And it ain't me.
And I turned around, walked out and never went back.
You know, they freaked out and drafted me and, you know, all that shit.
And I ended up going to Harvard College.
Fuck you, I said.
I went to Harvard College and I studied American foreign policy under Henry Kissinger.
I studied all about the Vietnam War.
You know, I got to be one of the point briefers.
From Harvard Law School to the United States Senate, briefing them on the Cooper Church Amendment as to how they could constitutionally cut off all the funds for the Vietnam War.
Right.
And I ended up being the lawyer for the Pentagon Papers case to reveal all of this so we could stop the fucking war.
Right.
And so I took this personally.
You know, this is a violation of everything that we've been taught.
You know, what these people are doing is a violation of everything that we've been taught.
They are the fucking bad guys.
They are the bad guys.
And there are decent guys that go into the military because they need a job or they need training.
And they get tasked to do all this stuff.
And by the time they get buried into this military culture, all they're doing is blindly doing whatever it is they're told.
And they invade places and kill people.
And then they end up justifying killing somebody because they killed my buddy.
And here you are, 8,000 miles away.
What are we doing invading the Middle Eastern oil fields?
It's just completely obvious.
We invaded the Middle Eastern oil fields based on a complete, absolute fabricated lie.
This Saddam Hussein was in possession of nuclear weapons, and we go ho hum.
Oh, well, okay, I guess that was a big fat lie.
We've been in, killed tens of thousands of people, you know, spent hundreds and hundreds of lives of American men and women, you know, for what?
To occupy the Middle Eastern oil fields.
Why?
So that we could control the Middle Eastern oil for our country and keep China from getting it.
Okay?
So, I mean, that's what's happening here, you know?
So that's the answer to your question.
What do you think about all this national security state?
I think the national security state is fascist.
I think that they are devoted to the proposition that the entire instrumentalities of the state should be put at the disposal of the private interests of corporations.
And that is fascism.
That's exactly what Mussolini wrote his major essay about on fascism.
That is exactly what the idea of fascism is.
And that's what they're doing.
And they're justifying aggressive wars to go get the resources because somebody else would do it.
And they keep on buffaloing everybody that the Soviet Union was planning on taking over the world.
You know, that's our job, as George Carl used to say.
You know, that's our job.
You know, and that's what they're doing.
They're attempting to establish full spectrum dominance over the planet through 800 military bases, through over a trillion dollars a year now, a trillion dollars a year in major military operations.
You know, with young men and women of complete good faith that are Americans who have been raised believing in the fundamental rights of the Constitution, in liberty, in democracy, and all that stuff, and they're being deployed.
To go kill people, you know, over oil, you know, that is so that Donald Trump and the guys who say, We are the number one producers of energy now in the world.
We are producing more oil than Saudi Arabia, you know, and who's there are allies, Saudi Arabia, you know.
So it's, you know, that's what I think, you know, and that's why I went to the Jesuits to be legal counsel for them because they're the ones that are devoted to trying to instill.
The fundamental Judeo Christian social ethics that we've all been taught as young men and women, you know, in our high school civics courses and everything else.
Our job is to make that stuff real, you know, and you can hold them up to it.
You can confront them with it, you know, to say, look, here's the promises that we've been made.
Here's the promises we've been made all through our raising, being raised in high school and college and everything else, you know, and we intend to do that.
And, you know, and that's why we're still alive, is because the guys say, wait a second, you know, These kids actually believe this stuff.
Paul Hovind Connections00:14:08
You know, that's who we are.
And they say, who the hell are these people?
You know, they're getting all this information.
It would feel Chodriguez.
They said, how.
I hate that we keep bringing him up.
No, they said, they said, they said, catch this.
Oliver North believed, and I know this because he told Ross Perot this, that they believed that the source of our information in the Iran Contra case.
Was Felix Rodriguez.
Really?
That's what they thought.
And they were going to have to try to get rid of him as the head of the Ilopongo air operation because we had such good information about the.
We knew the flight numbers.
We knew the tail numbers.
We knew.
We had the shipping invoices over the serial numbers on the weapons.
F those people, man.
I mean, we had these guys dead to rights.
And they said, it has to be Felix.
Okay?
It wasn't.
It was Chi Chi, who was his number two, who was just giving us the information.
Pantero.
Yeah.
Because he was talking all the time to Gene Wheaton.
And Gene Wheaton was working with us because he got really pissed off.
He'd given him his airplanes.
He gave him like a dozen of his airplanes to fly weapons down to the Contras.
He said, you know, fuck the Contras.
You know, they're fucking, you know, fuck the Sandinistas.
You know, they're all communists.
So he let them use his airplanes until he found out that they were flying cocaine back into the United States on his airplanes.
And one of them crashed on the way back.
And he got ready to file an insurance claim.
He goes, no, no, no, nurses, don't do that.
Don't do that.
Because if they send investigators to try to find the plane and they'll find it and it's filled with cocaine.
And so Gene got really pissed off and came to us, came to us.
Paul Hovind brought him to meet with me.
Paul Hovind was a copter jock in Vietnam, you know, and he ran the project on military procurement, which I chaired the Fund for Constitutional Government in Washington, D.C.
And we instituted the Fund for Military Spending, right?
And we were overseeing the whole project on military spending to go after the $500 coffee pots, the $300 hammers, the $800 screwdrivers that they have, all that shit.
And so we were doing, we put together the project on military procurement.
And Paul Hovind was one of the consultants we had because he was an expert on military hardware.
And so he would tell us exactly what the, like the Bradley fighting machine, for example, the Bradley fighting machine, you know.
If it took a direct hit amidships, it would totally blow up and kill everybody all around it because it could be defeated with an armor-piercing shell.
And it was loaded with military - what do you call it?
Anyway, provisions.
They kept the shells inside the tank.
And so you hit the Bradley fighting machine.
It could go 60 miles an hour on the open highway, but the fact is it could be penetrated by one armored Persian shell and blow up and kill everybody all within like 150 yards of it, which all the guys who were around it would get killed.
And still they just kept pushing it forward because it was a multi million dollar project.
And so I was there as the head of that program.
We put that together.
We put together the Institute for Corporate Responsibility, which was the original whistleblower protection group for the Fund for Constitutional Government.
We did all that out of the Fund for Constitutional Government when I was at the Jesuit headquarters.
I got recruited by the people to, if Stuart Mott helped fund that thing.
So they asked me to become the chair of it because they knew I was a serious person when it comes to the Constitution.
Right.
And so we set up all those different programs then.
And that's how I got to meet Paul Hovind.
And Paul Hovind was at a meeting of the.
The Heritage Foundation, if you know what that is, the Heritage Foundation is somewhere to the right of Attila, you know, and they've got this foundation in Washington, D.C., where they're all, you know, they're the ones that built the entire, was it, a mandate for leadership, that great big 500 page book that they gave to Ronald Reagan when he became president.
And he instituted all those beliefs and stuff.
And Hovind was at one of these soirees they were having there, and there was Gene Wheaton.
Standing there at the bar drinking, and they got talking back and forth.
And Wheaton started crying in his beer over the fact that his airplane had been shot down, filled with cocaine.
Oh, no.
And so Paul Hovind knew me because he was our consultant at the Project on Military Procurement.
And so he came to me and he said, Danny, I know that you guys have been looking into this weapons smuggling operation going on down to the Contras, which everybody's denying is happening.
And you're sure it is happening.
But I've got a guy who I think may know something about it.
So he sets up the meeting in a safe house out in Virginia, and I go out and sit down with Gene Wheaton.
And after probably half an hour, 45 minutes, he realized that I knew a lot.
I knew a lot.
And then he became convinced that I was serious about this.
And I was no spy for Cuba or Soviets or anybody.
I was just an absolute American who believed in the Constitution and had been given the privilege of getting to go to Harvard College and Harvard Law School and Harvard Divinity School.
And I had all kinds of contacts because I'd been in Bailey's office and I knew all kinds of stuff from being on the Pentagon Papers.
And so he agreed to work with us because he was pissed off about what they were doing.
And that's how we learned that Theodore Shackley, who was the CIA station chief in Saigon, was also the guy who put together the off the shelf enterprise.
It wasn't Oliver North at all, it was Theodore Shackley, who was the hand picked head of covert operations for the CIA worldwide.
By George H.W. Bush when he was the director of the Central Intelligence Agency.
And this guy was the fucking protege of Reinhard Galen, who was the head of the Waffen SS Third Reich, anti Soviet and anti Eastern Bloc intelligence for the Third Reich.
And this guy, Theodore Shackley, was his protege in Europe in the 101st Counterintelligence Corps when Galen turned himself in at the end of World War II.
And Shackley was his translator.
And he went with him and translated stuff and brought him to Fort Hunt at the end of World War II.
And helped persuade everybody to let him become the head of West German intelligence.
And so Reinhard Galen, who was the head of the Waffen SS Third Reich, anti-Soviet and anti-Eastern Black intelligence, was the head of West German intelligence for 26 years and provided was the primary source on intelligence against the Soviet Union to our United States Central Intelligence Agency.
And Theodore Shackley was his protege and was in the original class of the Central Intelligence Agency, along with Michael Harari, who was chief of security for Noriega and his drug smuggling.
These are the guys that we're talking about here.
And what I'm saying is that I think that the UFO issue has got the widest constituency of any issue of public policy.
Everybody, everybody wants to find out about the UFOs.
Everybody wants to find out about the fact that there's extraterrestrial intelligence and they're coming and going from the planet.
All the Republican senators are in support of our bill.
All the Democratic senators are in charge in support of our bill, except for.
Except for McConnell, Mitch McConnell, and one guy from Alabama, you know, one of the senators from Alabama.
All the other senators, you know, all 98 other senators are supportive of our 60 page bill.
You know, and virtually all the members of the House.
You know, I've got meetings with AOC sitting there, with Gates, with Matt Gates, sitting having cordial conversations about how they agree that the Congress has the right to have all this information.
Because it's rotten and unconstitutional for the unelected people in the military and in the intelligence community to be secreting this information.
What do you think about the story?
I don't know if you've heard of it, but Annie Jacobson talks about it in her book, Area 51.
She has a source, a major source, who was an EGG engineer.
Yeah, I know EGG.
Yeah, he told her, he was like towards the very end of his life when he was giving her information for her book.
But he said that the Roswell crash was a drone piloted by Stalin containing a humanoid.
There was a guy, a Nazi guy that Stalin got that was like a, I always forget his name, but he was like a surgery.
He was in charge of like doing all this crazy surgical experiments, manipulating people.
And he did this surgical manipulation on like kids with Down syndrome and made them look like aliens and crashed them in there to sow panic and chaos in the US.
What do I think about that?
And then, hold on.
Yeah.
And then, um, She went back towards the end of her research years later and she goes, why wouldn't you say something about this?
She's like, this makes them look terrible.
If you guys found out the truth and could find evidence proving that Stalin was behind this, why wouldn't you do that?
And the EG&G engineer said, because we started doing the same thing.
He literally said that they started doing the surgical stuff experimenting on kids.
It's all a total brain fart.
I mean, you can get extraordinarily intricate stories by people who are total psychopaths, and they're completely convincing because some of them believe it themselves.
It's not true.
I'm the guy that helped expand the telegram in the hand of General Ramey.
The famous picture of him kneeling down next to the weather balloon, kneeling down there, and look at it he's got a telegram, a cable in his hand.
You can see it.
I always saw, I said, that guy's got a cable of some sort in his hand there.
But you can't read it from the photograph.
And so, like 1995, I'm doing a talk, giving everybody a briefing on the John Mack case, you know, that was still underway at that time.
I'm out at the International UFO Congress out in Laughlin, Nevada.
And a guy comes up to me after I do my briefing on the Mack case.
And he says, Mr. Sheehan, he said, I've got something really important I need to talk with you about.
Could you come up, meet me up in my room?
And I went, I think I better bring somebody with me.
So I get another friend of mine.
We go up.
And he says, I think I have found the photographer.
From the Roswell newspaper, who the editor called him at 2 o'clock in the morning after the July 8th headline, banner headline in the Roswell paper that everybody's seen about flying saucer, that they found a flying saucer and it went out over the AP wires and everybody was going ballistic, right?
And he gets a call at 2 o'clock in the morning from the editor of the paper and says that General Ramey has flown in from Texas.
And he's demanding that we send a photographer out right now because they want to get the photographs.
Uh, and put him on the front page of the paper for the morning.
And he goes out, and here's Ramey, you know, with Marcel and the rest of the guys.
And they're all still up, and they've got a weather balloon kind of spread out on the floor.
Uh, and he's kneeling down next to the weather balloon, and he's got this cable in his hand.
You can see the telegram.
Uh, and so this guy says, I think I may have found the photographer that took the picture.
And I said, Great.
I said, If you can find out, and it's the right guy, see if he's got the negatives.
If he's got the negatives, we might be able to digitize them and blow these things up and we can read the telegram, right?
So he does.
He goes and finds the guy.
Sure enough, that's the guy.
Sure enough, he's got the negatives.
Sure enough, we get them blown up and digitized, right?
And it says right in him, we had to do some computer stuff with where the consonants and vowels were to be able to fill in where some of the wrinkles were that were in the thing.
But it says, bring the disc to right field and bring the bodies.
Okay.
Now, and so that we know that it was real, it wasn't any weather balloon, you know, and all the guys, the guys that are there, I mean, they know what a weather balloon looks like.
Well, that story would fit in with the EGG engineer story.
It's not even close to a weather balloon.
I mean, this was a huge crap.
He said it was a drone.
He said it was like a flying saucer that they literally piloted with bodies.
Anybody can make anything up.
Anybody can make anything up.
And we've seen them.
I mean, look at Corey Good, the guy that I told you about.
Corey Good went on and on for dozens of appearances.
He went on.
And went into great detail about how we had interstellar crap.
Yeah, but this source, he was completely, he was a confidential source.
He was completely remained anonymous.
She never named the guy or anything.
And she said that he, like, why would he admit the fact that he went and did it too?
Do you realize how many people that have come to me to tell me that they knew what the Watergate burglary was about?
And what the Kennedys, who killed Kennedy, you know, and all that, and the people hiding in the drain and all that shit.
I mean, they go on and on and on, you know?
And it's just, that's what I'm saying, why you have to have.
The ability to, I mean, we could slap this guy on a psychological stress evaluator.
And, you know, it's just that they noticed that we've got like a dozen witnesses who have participated in that, who saw the crash debris.
Anonymous Source Testimony00:09:18
And it's not a weather balloon at all, you know?
And they've got multiple bodies.
They didn't find a bunch of people that were kind of human mutants and they kind of operated.
Operated on them and put them in a weather balloon and flew or a drone and flew.
They didn't even have drones then, you know?
Well, they had the Horton brothers were working on.
Have you seen the flying saucer type object that the Horton brothers developed?
Well, there were a number of them that were trying to be developed that the Nazis were working on.
Right, exactly.
Which may well have been a result of the craft in 1933 that was recovered in Italy.
But they weren't able to figure out the technology of this thing.
Yeah, see, that's it there.
So, this, what are we looking at right there?
That's the telegram right there.
This is the telegram that was in the guy's hand in the photograph.
That's Jason Ramey's right there.
See it?
Yeah.
Oh, wow.
See it?
That's not a weather balloon.
That's not a conversation about a weather balloon.
Right, no.
They're talking about the disc.
Where does it say Wright Patterson?
It says Wright Field.
Oh, Wright Field.
See, that's what it was.
It was Wright Field at that time.
It wasn't Wright Patterson until now.
Oh, wow.
Just take it to Wright Field.
And here's all the stuff.
See?
Yep.
Right field.
They talk about we're going to send out a weather balloon story for a cover.
Huh.
Is that right?
Yeah.
No, yeah, yeah, yeah.
It was definitely a cover up.
Yeah.
So it's one of those kind of things where not in a thousand years would they think that you can see this.
Would you ever be able to see the telegram that he had in his hand?
Right.
So I say that nobody's going to be smart enough to do that, to have a fake. Telegram in his hand and think that, you know, 30 years later somebody's going to find the technology to read it.
You know, it's just like, you know, eventually we'll be able to get the Zapruder film and we'll be able to have a technology that can track the heat signatures of the bullets in the emulsion on the negatives.
We're going to be able to do that and we'll be able to find the actual heat signatures of the bullets.
And so you'll know exactly where the bullets came from.
Yeah.
And by that time they'll all be dead.
What did that say, Steve?
However, this book written.
Oh, this is.
Okay, this is talking about the EGG engineer, right?
Yeah.
In this book written by Andy Jacobson, a respected investigator reporter offers such a contrasting explanation for the Roswell mystery that I suggest you clutch something solid right now.
Yeah, this is what I explained to you.
According to the Telegraph, Jacobson suggests that the flying object crashed into an earthly machine.
She also reported a suggestion it was semi Stalin.
Down here is where it gets interesting.
Um, maybe it's right here.
Children, Stalin, yeah, yeah.
Stalin apparently believed that it could have been said they sent a plane full of these children created with the already exiled Mengel Mengel.
That was the guy's name, the Nazi Mengela Mengela's help over to the US in order to create mass hysteria.
However, the remote piloted plane, which wasn't a flying saucer, crashed.
But yeah, so the Horton brothers and a bunch of these guys that were working with the Nazis they had all kinds of crazy sci fi looking they were working on that looked like flying saucers.
No, I mean, what I'm saying is that we've got 40, you know, above top secret witnesses testifying to the recovery of the UFOs, you know, and that these are not craft made by the Soviets or.
So it goes back to my original question if we have 40 of these people, do you really think we're going to get these people to let the cat out of the bag?
They've already given sworn testimony to the Senate Intelligence Committee under oath.
I'm talking about the private contractors, Battelle.
I'm talking about.
These companies.
Well, once we get subpoena power to go after them, and I can tell you that people all the time don't want to talk.
In any case, you're going to do are going to lie, are going to cheat and hide the stuff.
They're going to do all that.
You have to have professionals that know how to get that stuff.
And as long as the Congress has made the decision that they're going to get it, they'll get it.
Now they'll do everything in their power to try to stop it because it's worth trillions of dollars.
If they can get the patents on anti gravity technology, if they can get a patent on superluminal speeds of a vehicle, if they can get a patent on the metals that can withstand that kind of g forces and stuff.
If they can do that, it'll be worth trillions of dollars for them.
So they'll go to almost any lengths to refuse to do this.
So that's why we have to have the power of the institution of Congress to be able to get behind this.
And that's why it's a slow process of being able to bring these people on.
But we've now gotten the virtually unanimous support from the Democratic and Republican senators and almost unanimous support from the members of the House.
These few guys, you know, Mike Turner, Mike Turner, who is the head of the Republican head of the Intelligence Committee, who comes from the 10th Congressional District in Ohio.
Ohio, right, Patterson.
Right, Patterson.
And that is the chief field office for Radiant Technology.
You know, that's where they are.
And the other guy that he brought on is Mike Rogers, who's the head of the Armed Services Committee in the House, who comes from the 2nd District in Alabama, right next door to the Redstone Rocket Range.
Okay, and that's the home office of radiant technology.
And they've got the program, which is called Prompt Global Strike.
They're the ones that are trying to use the technology of the craft to propel American nuclear missiles that can be launched stateside and hit into the center of China or Russia within two minutes.
You know, I mean, sure they'll do that.
I mean, that's perfectly logical that they will, you know, the old Sufi saying is when a pickpocket meets a saint, All he sees are his pockets.
And so these guys live in the world of as soon as they see, oh, a crash UFO, man, we can make a weapon out of that.
Yes, exactly.
Because that's their life, that's their job, that's the prison through which they see everything.
So you can't really hold it against them that they want to do that.
That's their mission.
What sort of terms do you think they'd be willing to negotiate with to let the cat out of the bag or to let this, to disclose all this stuff?
Like, would you have to tell them, look, you can still control it, you guys still own it?
If you would give them the patents, if you'd give them the patents on it and you'd let them own it in perpetuity so they could make trillions of dollars, they could be making billions of dollars on every single craft that the United States built that used that technology.
And they could give the money to their shareholders so that they'd have more yachts or more country houses or give their great, great, great, great grandchildren and nephews a Mercedes for their 16th birthday.
I mean, these people are completely insatiable.
Because they've got a hole in their soul.
I mean, that they do not experience any kind of unitive experience.
I mean, experientially, that somehow the universe is some kind of harmonic, unified whole, that they don't have any sense of that at all.
Everything is dialectical, everything's confrontational, that there's bad guys all around all the time, that they develop an entire worldview.
And what does that do to your mind and to your psyche when you have.
These secrets, and you know about these secrets, and you know nobody else does.
Only you and a very few people on earth know that this should exist.
I wonder, like, what that does to your worldview.
Well, it's, I mean, that people who are into power, you know, it's a chakra.
It's, you know, it's the third chakra.
The third chakra in the human body is, you know, rooted in power, the lust for power and control.
Yeah.
And it satisfies that, you know, people feel privileged and, you know, people all, I mean, if you, If you have a Super Bowl ticket and get to sit in the box, you know, the head of the NFL with them to watch the Super Bowl game, you know, why are people getting off on that?
Why is that exciting some people so much?
You know, and other people are ho hum, they don't care about that at all, you know.
But a worldview is an extraordinarily important thing.
That's how I ended up eventually at Harvard Divinity School is that, you know, I'm in F. Lee Bailey's office.
You know, I'll tell you a story.
I'm sitting in F. Lee Bailey's office, right?
Mikey Angulo Office Visit00:06:23
And it turns out that what had happened is the This little old man who had owned a little mom pa grocery store in Boston, in the north end of Boston.
You know, a Friday afternoon, two big no neck guys come into his store and say they want to sell him Anjulo Fire Insurance Company.
You know, and he said, I don't need fire insurance.
I've already got fire insurance.
And they said, Well, you don't have kind of fire insurance that'll keep your place from being burnt down next Friday night.
And he looked at them like that and he just, He just rolled up his sleeve and he said, Look, you see these numbers right here tattooed on my arm?
I got those at Auschwitz, he said.
You people don't fucking scare me at all because I've been through the worst.
Big mistake on his part.
Because what they did is they found out that he had a daughter, a single child, who was like nine months, eight months pregnant with her first baby, and they tracked her down on the Mass Pike and chased her down on the Pike, and she pulled off the road and went into a phone booth to try to.
Call an emergency call to get help, and they got out of the car and shotgunned her right through the glass and killed her and the baby, and she was dead.
The hit the fan, and it was on all the newspapers, you know, the Boston Globe, all over the place, right?
Uh, and the ones that killed her that, uh, that well, it was the Angulo brothers, Mikey Angulo, you know, gave the order to kill her, you know.
And I'm sitting in the office, I'm sitting in the office with Lee Bailey, right?
Uh, and uh, I get a call.
From Lee.
And he says, Danny, he said, have you seen the stuff in the papers there about the killing out on the Pike?
And I said, Yeah.
He says, Come on in here.
Come on down.
So I go down the hall to his office.
I come down.
And here's Al Johnson, who's the managing partner at the firm, and Bad Andy Tooney, who's Andy Tooney, who was the head of the Strangler Bureau that caught DeSalvo, the Boston Strangler, right?
Bailey got appointed by the court to defend him, and Bailey stole Andy.
He was the head of the Strangler Bureau for the Massachusetts State Police.
So they're sitting in the office, right?
And they're saying, oh, yeah, you see this thing?
I'm anticipating getting a call from Mikey Angulo to ask us to defend him on this thing.
Because what's happened here is catch this it's like three to four days after the killing, and with all this roaring going on in all the news media, somebody drives past the place where she was killed, like 100 miles an hour, and tosses this guy out of the car and bounces him down the highway.
And he's laying there dying beside the highway.
And the Massachusetts State Patrol, Highway Patrol, find him, pull up and find him laying by the road, and they recognize him as one of Mikey Angulo's people.
He says, Joey, you're dying.
He said, tell me who did this.
What's this about?
He says, Are you the guy that pulled the trigger on this lady?
And he said, Yes, I am.
He said, Well, who told you to do it?
Who gave you the order?
And he said, Mikey Angulo.
And then they bring the ambulance, they bring him to Mass General, and he survives.
He lives.
And so now they're getting set to prosecute him and they're going to turn him on Mikey Angulo, right?
And so Lee calls me into his office and I'm sitting there with Lee and Al Johnson and Batty Andy.
And we're sitting there and he said, I'm anticipating he's probably going to call us or try to retain us to represent him.
He said, Danny, you wrote your honor thesis at Harvard College, right?
On like the Fifth Amendment and the right against self incrimination.
And so I said, Yeah, I did.
I was predicting the Miranda decision in my thesis at the college, you know?
And he says, You know, so he says, you know, that I want you to stay here because I'm expecting a call from him.
And the door opens and his secretary says, Lee, she said, it's Mikey Anchulo.
So I'm sitting there in the office and he goes, look, there, Ledley.
And he goes over and he picks up the telephone and you hear him say, yeah, Mikey.
Yeah, yeah, I saw that.
Oh, shit.
Yeah, that's really terrible.
Yeah, no, I hear you.
I hear you.
Yeah, no, no, we'll do that.
We'll represent you.
Yeah, no, that'll be $1 million cash.
And he weighs a little bit.
He says, and that's for us.
But for the investigation thing, you know, the Moriarty and Associates, that's another million dollars.
Whoa, no, Mikey, no way.
Hey, well, Mikey, we'll you too.
He said, you know, look at it.
If you want to call, and he slams the phone down on him like that.
And so he's sitting there and he's laughing.
And he's saying, oh, he says, look at it.
And he reaches in his pocket and he takes out his wallet and he takes out a $100 bill and he lays it on the table and he says, $100.
He calls back within 15 minutes.
And Al Johnson, Reaches in his wallet, takes out a couple of $50 bills, and he says, Okay, $10.
I'll take, I got $100 on $10.
He'll call within 10 minutes.
And Bad Andy says, I'll take a piece of that.
He says, Look, I'll take the five minutes.
I'll take five minutes.
And so Bailey turns to me and he says, Danny, you want a piece of this?
That's literally, you want a piece of this?
Yeah, yeah.
I said to myself, What the f am I doing in this room with these people?
I said, You know, I do not want to be here.
You know, and we'd already found out that he was on index four anyway.
I already told you, so I get up and leave the office, right?
And uh, so a day later, I'm sitting in my office, and uh, it must be five o'clock in the afternoon, something in walks Lee with Mikey Angulo.
He comes walking in, uh, and Mikey he says, Danny, this is Mikey Angulo, and Angulo walks over and sticks his hand out at me like that.
And I sit there and I just look at him and I say, Yeah, I know, I know who you are, I know who you are.
And and Julo says, Oh, you know, Lee says.
That you don't want to help me.
You don't want to do anything on this case.
He says, Everybody's got a right to have a defense.
And I said, Not from me.
And he says, Well, look, I wanted to have you kind of help me on this.
I said, Look, let me be really clear, Mr. Angelo.
I wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire.
You understand?
John Rawls Justice Debate00:08:27
And he just looked at me, and Lee almost cropped his fans.
I said, Because look, I said, I know who you are, and I know what you do.
And I think that you kill people who you think betray you.
So, I don't ever want to be in a position where you're ever going to think that I'm going to betray you.
Because I won't put a pencil to paper to help you.
So, I'll never have to worry about betraying you.
And he just looked at me and he just burst out laughing like that.
That's incredible.
And I just would not have anything to do with these people.
And so I realized that it's just a completely different worldview.
And so I would talk with Lee about why you got this whole practice, you're a great criminal defense attorney, you got this entire private investigation firm of Moriarty and so just to figure out all the facts on everything, right?
And I said, why don't you do something good?
You know, about this, that you've got a whole lot of you got a lot of notoriety, you can do really good things.
It was like talking to a wall, you know, it was like, uh, you know, and he said, No, everybody's got a right to a defense, you know.
And I said, But these are professional criminals, I mean, you know, they're total gangsters, these people.
He said, Well, everybody's entitled to a defense, you know.
And so, I got into this kind of row with him.
So, I leave that Friday afternoon, I'm standing in his place over on Beacon Hill, right?
Uh, and he's living out in Walpole or something because he's now married to his third wife.
You know, and so I'm staying at the place.
So I go to church on Sunday morning over at St. Cecilia's.
So I go over to St. Cecilia's and I come out of church and I'm kind of wandering back over to her beacon.
And I stop in at a bookstore and I'm kind of looking around at the books like I do sometimes.
And I found John Rawls' Theory of Justice.
John Rawls is the head of the Department of Philosophy at Harvard University and he's written this major treatise on justice.
Long story short, I read through the thing, and he says that there's this whole group of people, which he calls the intuitionists, who are the ones who make these kind of statements like all men are created equal, endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights and their life, liberty, and pride.
They've got all these rights and stuff, and they are a counter force in our country to what they call the majoritarian utilitarians, who, if our people are faced with a choice between one policy or another, they will pick the one theoretically that generates the greatest good for the greatest number, right?
John Stuart Mill, utilitarianism.
But he says it doesn't happen that way.
He says, if that were true, what Rawls says in his theory of justice, that, you know, then the 90% of us that are white would still own the 10% of the people that are black.
He said, but we don't because there's this other group called the intuitionists who keep making these kind of proclamations about natural law and their natural rights and all that.
And so I saw it.
So I bring it home, I buy a copy and I go home and I read it.
And I call up John Rawls, you know, and I talk to his secretary and I'm saying, you know, I graduated from Harvard.
College and Harvard Law School, and I did this and did that.
I'm waving the school tie through the phone at her as I'd like to get a chance to talk to Professor Rawls about this, about his new book.
She calls me back a little bit later.
She says, Okay, you can get 30 minutes Wednesday afternoon.
I go over and sit down with John Rawls, the head of the Department of Philosophy at Harvard University, and I start talking to him about what's caused me to come and talk with him about this.
I've got this thing with Lee Bailey.
I've been at the Cahill firm.
The Cahill firm was trying to get me to represent the Arkansas Missouri Power Company that was trying to buy an all black.
Company and raise the rates, and I wouldn't do it.
And so the bottom line is, I was explaining this all to him, and he ended up talking me into coming back to Harvard, to coming back and doing a master's and PhD in comparative social ethics, comparing and contrasting different worldviews.
And it was there that I began to really study and find out that people have completely different worldviews about things.
And we got to understand what the underlying premise was of different people's worldviews that are even unconscious.
They don't even know sometimes what they believe.
And so I ended up doing the work there, and that's why I got recruited by Jesuit National Headquarters because I'd been writing some papers and stuff in my master's work.
And Father Roger Kutor, who teaches the course at Harvard Law, Harvard Divinity School on the theological underpinnings of human rights, called me in and said, Look, I'm astonished here at these papers you've been writing and the work that you've been doing on this.
Are you aware of the fact I can tell that you're Catholic?
He said, from the way you're writing.
He said, But, and I checked out, you know, you're not married or anything.
He said, you know, are you aware of the fact that the Jesuits, that the father general of the Jesuits, Pedro Arupe, has called all 100 provincials of the Jesuit order into Rome to do some major treatise on social justice?
And they're going to create a new national headquarters in Washington, D.C.
And they're looking for a general counsel.
And I've recommended you.
Would you be willing to do an interview with them?
And so I said, sure, you know.
And so I did.
And they asked me to become general counsel at the Jesuit headquarters.
So we had 10,000 Jesuits all around the world.
We got doing social justice documents.
And it turns out that the Jesuit order has become a huge source of all the social justice documents that are being published by the Catholic Church and Pope Francis, who's the first Jesuit in history to ever become Pope, you know.
And so that I was right there at the international headquarters where we were dealing with liberation theology.
You know, all the stuff in South America.
And I knew all the people.
I knew Gutierrez.
I knew everybody who writes these things.
You know, I got to go to Rome and meet with the Superior General, with Pedro Arupe, you know.
And so I was right in the catbird seat.
And what I brought in was I brought in the professional investigators from Lee Bailey's office, the people that were in Moriarty and Associates, because they all knew me.
Right.
And they knew that I had thrown this big shit fit and that I wouldn't work for the organized crime people.
I wouldn't do any of that stuff.
And so these guys were all calling me up saying, Oh, you've got anything I can do to help you?
Can I help you with some stuff?
You're doing the kind of things that I always hoped I could really do.
And so we became this source of them getting to do good things together, right?
And so here I was at Jesuit headquarters.
So I had access to all the Jesuit guys around the world.
I had the investigators from Bailey's office.
And so we started putting together a group.
And I had access.
The secret that I had is that William Johnstone Taylor, who was appointed to me to be my chief investigator, Three tour Vietnam Marine Corps CID, Criminal Investigation Division, liaison to the CIA in Saigon, was my investigator.
And he had been there three tours in Vietnam, so he knew all the guys coming through Army CID, Office of Special Investigations for the Air Force, the Naval Intelligence guys.
He knew everybody.
And these guys, after they would do like a two year tour in Vietnam, they would leave the military and they'd go into Secret Service and FBI.
FBI, into CIA, U.S. Marshals' offices, you know, district attorneys, investigators, all over the country.
Wow.
And so I had all these guys who, when Taylor would call them up and say, Look, I got a job for you.
I want you to help us.
And on board they were like that.
And we had guys, I had the commander for the United States Army, CID, you know, working with us, you know, telling us everything.
You know, I had Gene Wheaton, the head of the U.S. military mission in Tehran.
You know, who had been the chief of security of the United States Marine Corps at KSON.
You know, I mean, these are the guys, you know, and some of it had to do with the fact that I was from Harvard Law School and Lee Bailey's office, and they all said, Whoa, shit, you know, this would be cool.
And so I got all these people to come in to work with us.
And this was the best thing they'd ever done in their whole life.
Everything we did, they were just totally delighted that they finally got to do something good, you know, and so that's what we are.
Inspector General Deceptions00:04:14
I mean, that's what the Christic Institute was until Bush ordered them to yank our 501 saying that we were engaged in political activity.
Because nobody had been ultimately criminally convicted of the charges we made against them because he pardoned them.
Right.
You know?
And so I don't mind.
You know, people go, oh, you know, he yanked your 501c3.
So what?
You know, we'll get another 501c3 and we'll become the Romero Institute, which we do, you know?
And so we just keep going.
And so that's why Lou Elizondo called me when he brought the videos and stuff.
He and Chris Mellon brought the videos to the New York Times.
And showed them all to them, and the Pentagon started shitting on him.
You know, say, We don't know who Lou Elizondo is.
There's never been any such thing.
There's no such project at the Pentagon.
We're not investigating UFOs.
He called me up and asked me to represent him.
And so we put together the complaint with the Inspector General's Office of the Defense Department.
And it wasn't just a whistleblower defense, you know, it was challenging them for lying to the American people and lying to Congress that this is unconstitutional.
For you guys to be lying to Congress and concealing this information from them.
So, we brought in this huge complaint into the United States Inspector General for the Defense Department and basically sat there briefing the Inspector General.
And as we started briefing him on what was really going on for the UFO issue, he was just flabbergasted, you know.
Instead of being mad at Lou for having blown the whistle on these people, he started bringing in officers in full uniforms sitting around the desk, and we would sit there briefing them.
What was going on?
Their eyes were like big as saucers.
Holy shit, you mean this is really true?
I mean, the J2, the guy that was the head of intelligence for the Joint Chiefs of Staff, was briefed out of this thing.
He wasn't allowed to ask any questions about it at all.
And he was the chief of intelligence for the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and he wasn't even allowed to ask any questions about it.
And these guys were furious.
So we've got guys all through the military that are pissed off at these guys.
We've got all the people in Congress and the House and Senate that are pissed off at these guys for lying to them and saying there's no such program going on at all.
And they're embezzling billions of dollars, billions of dollars out of the defense budget, saying that they've appropriated the money for some particular project and they're really putting it over into trying to back engineer the technology so they can build a weapon system to be able to strike into the heart of Russia in two minutes, which is going to totally destabilize the entire geopolitical structures that have been put together to stop nuclear war.
They've signed an agreement that they won't have first strike weapons.
And this is an attempt to get around the whole treaty because they consider the people in the State Department commies.
I mean, that's what they do.
They think that they're not really solely in defense of our national interests.
That they're trying to make treaties with people and negotiate.
They hate the United Nations.
They hate treaties with other countries, NATO, that they're into, they're fucking fascists.
It's what they are.
And that's what they're into.
And they think that it's perfectly appropriate.
If they think it's perfectly appropriate to engage in utilizing their military and their intelligence resources to garner privileged access to the strategic raw materials of the planet, what else is there?
I mean, that's what they think is okay.
And that's their job.
And unfortunately, the way the institutions are set up is that is, in fact, what they've been tasked to do.
And so they're totally loyal to that and they're totally devoted to doing it.
And they view the elected representatives as temporary employees.
You know, who come and go.
They're the BMOC types, you know, the big men on campus that used to be the president of their fraternities, and they're a bunch of phonies, you know, and all they want to do is, you know, parade around and be celebrities, you know, and they hold them basically in disdain, you know, including presidents.
Talking Frog Allegations00:03:31
Right.
You know, and you say, now what does that mean from a constitutional point of view?
You know, I don't believe that I'm naive about it.
I don't believe that I'm, you know, fell off some melon wagon, like I'm some country bumpkin or something.
You know, I happen to believe this stuff and I believe that we can make it true.
Thank you so much for coming all the way down here and doing this.
We just did almost four hours and that was incredible.
The amount, like I said before, the amount of knowledge and history that you have in your mind is absolutely astonishing.
And I'm really grateful for you coming down here, man.
No, I'm delighted to come.
I want to talk to the people about these things.
Yes.
You know, I haven't been talking about these things for people for years.
But I said, you know, this is the issue.
I'm just going to bring all of that to bear because the misdeeds of the national security state, which I've talked about in a number of different areas, all come to roost on this thing, you know, that they believe that they actually are entitled to keep secret from the people the fact that there's an extraterrestrial civilization of people coming and going from our planet, you know, and that our people are engaged in trying to back engineer their craft to develop weapons systems, you know.
I'll do one story in closing on this is that.
Hal Putoff, I don't know if you know Hal.
Yeah, I'm familiar with him.
Hal Putoff told us that he was meeting with Bill Clinton back during 1992 in the Clinton administration when Lawrence Rockefeller and the people were talking about trying to consider putting this information out, right?
He's at a meeting, and the science advisor for Bill Clinton is there.
And so Hal says to him, What do you think is really the source of all the pushback that we're getting on trying to get this information out?
And the science advisor says, Let's go outside where I can talk to you.
Which tells you something about what they're worried about, the kind of surveillance and stuff that's going down against the political people.
He said, So he goes outside and he said, Here, let me give you an analysis, he said, of what I think the problem is here, of why they're pushing back so hard.
He said, There's a story about this old man, little old man, who's on his way back from somewhere.
He's coming home at night, early in the evening, and he's walking through this field and he looks down and he sees this light, like in the grass.
And he leans down and it's a frog.
And the frog has this little light, like on top of its head.
And he reaches down and picks this.
Is Hal Put off telling me the story?
He said, This is the answer that the science advisor told him is the answer for why they're pushing back like this.
He said, And the little man reaches down and picks up the frog, and he recognizes that it's a crown.
The little light is a crown on the head of the frog.
And the frog looks up at him and says, I'm not a frog, I'm a princess.
I'm a beautiful princess, and I've been turned into a frog by this evil sorcerer.
And all you have to do is kiss me.
You kiss me, and I'll turn back into this beautiful princess.
And you and I will be married and we'll have many great children.
We'll be able to rule our place with priests and justice.
And the little man looks at her and he says, At my age, I think I'll settle for having a talking frog.
That's good.
Okay.
That's what we've got happening here.
These people are willing to settle for a talking frog.
Just like Woodward and Bernstein were willing to settle for just that they caught creep money going to the people that burglarized the Watergate and let the whole other thing go.
American People Demand Truth00:02:34
They're missing out on this.
Astonishing opportunity for our entire human family to enter into an entire new era of safe energy and plenty for everybody and a positive relationship with an entire extraterrestrial civilization.
And all they can think of to do is how to make weapons out of it so that we can shoot a missile into Russia in two minutes.
That's a serious problem.
And I don't think the American people are going to support that.
I think the American people want to know the information about this.
I think that they want to.
And I want to have the people understand that the national security state has to be disassembled because the United States has become the Russians, has become the bad guys that are applying their trade all on behalf of establishing full spectrum military dominance over the planet.
We're living at the heart of Rome.
People all like to believe that, oh, if I were in Rome, I would have opposed slavery, human slavery.
If I'd been in the South in the 1800s, I would have opposed slavery.
No, you wouldn't.
They would be just as passive as a lot of the people are now because they don't think they're involved.
They don't think they can have any effect upon anything.
That's what the New Paradigm Institute is going to be saying.
You have to be citizens.
You have to step forward.
You have to pay some attention to what's going on here.
You know, you got jobs, you got everything else.
We're not asking you for an awful lot of time.
What we're saying is all you have to do is go to newparadigminstitute.org and, you know, get as much information as you want or as little as you want.
It's going to be very informative, very entertaining.
You know, and you can be actively participating in helping to get the Congress to do the right thing about all this, you know, and you can tell your great, great, great grandchildren that you were there.
I mean, we're at the time where the protocols are going to be established that are going to control our relationship with an extraterrestrial civilization for 10,000 years in the future.
I'm ready.
I'm ready for it.
You know, this next year is going to be quite a whirlwind.
I have a feeling.
Oh, absolutely.
Especially with the presidential elections coming up and everything that's going on in Congress with this grush guy.
Yep.
I can't wait.
And thanks again for enlightening me on all this amazing information.
You're more than welcome.
Newparadigminstitute.org.
I'll link all your stuff below.
Please.
And also, I want to ask you a couple more quick questions, but I'm going to do it after we wrap up this podcast because I don't want to get this video nuked by YouTube for asking you these questions.