Matthew Cox details his 18-month synthetic identity fraud scheme involving $11.5 million and fake children, followed by a three-year manhunt ending in a 13-year sentence after snitching on inmate Ron Wilson regarding $500,000 in Ponzi funds. He contrasts this with the "code of the street," arguing cooperation is survival, while discussing Chinese triad chip heists, U.S. military superiority over Russia and China, and domestic cultural conflicts. Ultimately, Cox suggests humanity remains a "Type Zero" civilization needing evolution to avoid self-destruction amidst geopolitical instability and internal societal fractures. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, WAV2VEC2_ASR_BASE_960H, sat-12l-sm, script v26.04.01, and large-v3-turbo
Time
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Turning Life Around00:15:09
You got a ring on your finger, Matt.
I know, man.
First time I've seen you with a ring on your finger.
Well, congratulations.
When'd you get married?
Yeah, congrats.
You're a married man.
Look at you.
Turned your life around.
Settling day.
Early February?
Just before.
Two days before.
Two days?
13th?
No, 13th of February.
13th of February, day before Valentine's Day.
I mean, I don't feel this.
I don't.
Don't feel no different?
You know, Jess is like, you know, we're married.
And I'm like, I know.
What's it like?
I mean.
Are you guys.
Do the kids live with you guys or.
Jess's daughter lives with us.
She does?
Yeah.
Okay.
She's being homeschooled.
Did you sign a prenup?
Why?
I don't have anything.
One of us has anything.
Yeah, but you got some potential out there.
I mean, maybe.
You're really making a life for yourself, Matt.
What's it like to be a guy who's on the run from the FBI for 10 years, did 26 years in prison?
Sets it up good.
Now look at you.
You're on TV.
You're the face of Life Lock.
You're the face of Home Mortgage Lock.
You're on half of that stream.
I see you on Tidal Lock.
I watch ESPN religiously.
You're on ESPN at least almost once a day.
I know.
My mom will go, Matt Cox is on TV.
You almost convinced her to buy Title Lock.
I almost had to talk her out of it.
And you're on Steve Bannon's show.
You're everywhere, Matt.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Steve Bannon is probably one of my favorites because he doesn't say anything to me.
He doesn't even talk to you.
I mean, he does his whole spiel, and then he's like, and he talks about home title lock and how horrible identity theft and aggravated identity theft.
Title theft and all these things.
He goes on and on and on.
And then he's like, and that's why we have Matt Cox here, Mr. Cox.
You know, what can they do?
What can, you know, my watchers do to protect themselves?
And I go, well, they can buy home title locks, Steve.
And he's like, that's right.
Thank God for it.
And then he goes on and on.
It's like, I barely say anything.
I might say 10 lines in five minutes.
Just pop in.
And then it's over and that's it.
It's great.
I love it.
It's so fucking funny that last time you were on here, you mentioned that.
You're like, what's this guy's name?
Some guy that had something to do with Trump.
I go on a show and I promote home title lock.
I don't remember this guy's name.
Meanwhile, Steve fucking banned it.
Jesus Christ.
He's about to go to jail.
Is he?
Well, yeah, he lost.
He's supposed to go to jail.
He's fighting it.
He's appealing it.
He's dragging that out.
How much time do you think Trump?
That's what they said about Trump, too.
They said he's about to go to jail.
But look at that.
They've said that for.
I was just thinking about that.
You know what's so funny?
It was like, it was for two years, it was like nothing but Russia.
About the Russia gator, Russia investigation.
And then, eh.
Okay, we don't talk about that anymore.
Then it was, you know, this.
And then it was, you know, documents.
And then it was, and it's like they're.
They've tried to get him for so long.
I mean, shouldn't you just quit at some point?
Yeah.
It's not going to happen.
No, it's not going to happen.
And then there's all that stuff coming out right now about Jeffrey Epstein.
There's like five articles that came out in the last three days about Jeffrey Epstein and all this new, these new documents that got released about his schedule, about his calendar, meeting with the head of the CIA and all that shit.
Yeah, but those were like, he was supposed to meet with, like, that was, he was on his schedule, but no, he met with him.
They literally met many times, but there was also, I guess there was, um, They were supposed to meet again in the future, but he died.
Okay.
But he had met with him.
He met with him and he was like the head of the State Department or something like that.
It was before Bill Burns was actually the head of the CIA.
Okay.
But he was just like, yeah, yeah.
This is when he was with Obama, right?
Yes.
Yes.
Exactly.
I think so.
And then he said, and then they said, when they asked him about it, he said, oh, it was about reintegrating into society or investing money or something.
He had some benign, like out of all the people you were going to meet with.
Of course.
Yeah.
It was benign.
Of course it was.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's fine.
Hey, listen, Amadeo, you know, they talk about these getting a background check.
I think about it.
Amadeo met with President George W. Bush.
That's insane.
So he and tell people who gotten out of prison for all of our new listeners who aren't familiar with who you are, give them a brief background on your history.
Let's let's sum it up.
I mean, we did a whole podcast on this obviously in the beginning that went completely viral and made you into who you are today.
And uh, it's your take.
So tell us, give us like the elevator style pitch of your background, your life on the road with the FBI, how long you spent in prison, and how you met Amadeo.
I mean, that was it.
Just um, you just did a great job.
So, okay, so I owned a mortgage company.
Right.
I own a mortgage company and we were doing some, you know, light fraud, changing W 2s, pay stubs, you know, not, you know, I mean, I was going to say, not nothing all that sophisticated.
And then eventually I got in trouble for buying properties.
Like I would buy a house for $40,000, $50,000, renovate the house, and then sell it to my wife at the time in her maiden name so that I could get around something called seasoning.
Well, I'd done that several times.
And one of the brokers that worked for me, She started her own place and she got in trouble running what's called a straw man scam.
She wore a wire on me and then I lost my license, right?
So, FBI comes in, you know, they call me, I lose my license, I can't be a mortgage broker anymore, so I start a larger scam.
So, instead of like saying, okay, I'm just gonna go get a job, you know, and just I'll go sell used cars and, you know, what instead what I did was I said, you know what I'm gonna do?
I'm gonna, I was on probation, I got three years probation, and I started making synthetic identities, I started making fake people.
I would, I eventually, I started just by experimenting.
But eventually, I figured out how to go into the Social Security Administration and get them to issue me Social Security numbers for children that don't exist, like a 10 month old kid.
I'd give them a fake birth certificate and a fake shot record.
No, shot record.
And they'd issue me a Social Security number in any name that I said that was on the birth certificate.
So I'd get these names.
I would then pull the credit a few times.
I'd give them a couple of secured credit cards.
I'd make the payments, and they'd end up with, like, after six months, they'd get like a, 760 credit score, 750, 700 credit score, something like that.
And so, what I then turned around, I started buying houses in those names, recording the value of those houses.
So, I'd buy a house in Ybor City for $50,000 and I'd record the value of the house at $200 or $250 or $230 or $190, whatever.
So, I bought so many houses in so many different names, the whole area shot up through the roof.
That way, my synthetic identity can buy a house for $50,000, record the sale of that house just by paying the extra docs names.
On the deed.
So, record the sale of the house at $200,000.
And because he's got perfect credit and I can provide W 2s and pay stubs and proof of his residency and residential history of payments, he could refinance that house for, let's say, he could get a loan for like $180,000.
We bought it for $50,000.
So, $180 minus $50 is like $130,000, less closing costs, whatever.
So, let's say $120,000.
So, I walk away with $120,000.
I make a few payments, let the house go into foreclosure.
And I did that.
Each guy bought five or six houses.
So each guy borrowed roughly a million dollars.
And of course, I'd also run up his credit cards, borrow 50,000, 60,000 in credit cards, get a couple personal loans.
So he gets another $100,000.
Ends up with like a million, million point two, whatever.
Make a few payments, let them all go.
Well, I did that for how long did I do that for?
Did that for about 18 months.
I borrowed $11.5 million in the name of a bunch of fake guys.
Well, eventually, another friend of mine gets caught in a bank trying to, in a similar scam.
That he was working with me and somebody else, and he ends up getting caught and he cooperates.
They put together a task force, they watched me for three, four months.
Another buddy of mine comes to me and says, Listen, bro, he's a sheriff's deputy.
He's like, I used to date this chick on the Tampa PD.
She's a part of a task force.
They're coming to arrest you.
The FBI is coming to arrest you.
So I take off on the run.
I go on the run.
I immediately go to Atlanta.
I rent a house from somebody.
I satisfy the loan on the house.
So it looks like there's no loan on the house.
So I'm now living in a house as the owner of the house.
I make a fake ID.
I get a social security number issued in his name.
I then.
Build the credit history and I refinance that house and I pull out like $400,000.
So I'm like $350,000, $400,000.
What else?
I'm wrapping it up.
So then I take off from there.
Secret Service is now after me.
So now the FBI, Secret Service is after me.
I then turn around and I go to South Carolina.
And at this point, I'm surveying homeless people.
I'm getting their information.
I'm getting driver's licenses in their names.
I'm getting passports in their names.
I end up buying a couple houses in South Carolina.
I borrow $1.3 million, pulling out money out of that.
I get about $500,000, $600,000 out of the bank.
I end up getting Handcuffed in the bank, you know, question the bank.
Oh, yeah.
This is the best part.
Yeah.
One of the best parts.
Yeah.
So I'm pulling out cash, right?
Like getting 8,000 out of seven or eight different accounts.
Like I get 8,000, 5,000, 7,000.
Like every other day, I'm pulling out money.
One day, I go into the bank as Gary Sullivan, and two deputies walk up.
Like I'm waiting to get the cash, and they call the police or the sheriff.
And two deputies come out, and they walk up behind me, and boom, they grab me by the arms, yank my arms behind me, put handcuffs on me, bring me into the, um, the, Bank manager's office, and they start questioning.
Well, they don't question me, they actually wait until they call a detective or investigator, whatever they're called.
They call him, he shows up, but they keep calling me Gary Sullivan, Mr. Sullivan, Mr. Sullivan, like, Hey, Mr. Sullivan, you know, you're being detained, we're waiting for the shit or for a detective to come.
I thought it was the FBI, but he walks in and I and he says, Um, hey, the head of Wachovia's fraud department.
Said you're running some kind of a scam.
He says you got three mortgages on the same house.
And I went, Was that illegal?
And the guy goes, He goes, Yeah, you know, he goes, I'm not sure.
And I remember thinking, I'm walking out of here.
And so to wrap it up, so that, you know, to get through this.
So basically, over the next 10 minutes, we talked to the head of Wachovia's fraud department.
And I convinced the investigator that the bank has made a mistake.
That I couldn't do anything wrong.
The bank's loan officers may have done something wrong.
And so we go back and forth, back and forth.
And listen, the guy from Wachovia 100% knows what's going on, but he can't seem to convince this guy because I'm running interference.
Yeah.
And finally, at one point, he says, This is really where I think he messed up.
At one point, you know, we're going back and forth, back and forth.
And I'm like, Oh, no, that's not what happened.
This is what happened.
And oh, I don't know, no, that's not why would I do that?
And so we're going back and forth.
And finally, he says, The guy from Wachovia goes, Listen, he needs to be arrested.
He's running a scam.
He's using a fake ID.
Look at his ID.
His ID starts with 000.
South Carolina, their IDs start with 000.
I had gone into the South Carolina DMV and gotten a real driver's license in the name of Gary Sullivan's name.
So the detective says, And he says, No, no.
He said, Our IDs start with 000.
And I remember I lean into him and I go, I said, oh, come on, bro.
Now I'm not Gary Sullivan.
I go, what are we doing here?
And he goes, I know, Gary.
I know.
And he literally got him then.
I mean, like right then, I was like, oh, yeah, like this guy, now he clearly knows it's a real ID.
And this guy's saying it's fake, and he knows it's real.
So he didn't believe anything this guy said.
Like everything, all the credibility he'd built up just got thrown out the window.
And I was like, come on, man.
So he's like, okay, Gary.
He ends up hanging up on Wachovi.
He says, look, I'm going to have this guy come downtown, fill out a police report, and then I'll talk to the district attorney, but I don't even know what to charge him with.
Yeah.
So, you need to fill out, you guys need to fill out a police report and, you know, an official complaint.
And he said, we'll see what happens from there.
So, I end up leaving and following him back to the police.
You know, I wasn't going to do the whole, because I didn't do the whole setup of the prostitute thing.
So, like, the guy that I had stolen his ID had been arrested multiple times for male prostitution in Las Vegas.
So, he had run my stuff and he actually thought, so, everybody there thought years earlier I'd been arrested for, for, um, Prostitution.
Prostitution in Las Vegas.
Now, I hadn't, but the homeless guy had.
So, anyway, I follow them back to the police station, fill out a police report, and he releases me.
Like I get in my car and I leave.
I then go back to Charlotte, North Carolina, pack up my stuff, drive to Houston where I was dating this chick.
She'd already relocated, go there, get into an argument with her, empty the truck of all my IDs, everything.
I have nothing on me.
Except for an ID that I'm sure they're looking for by now.
And I drive all the way back to Charlotte because I get into an argument with her and I'm just like, okay, we're done.
Drive back to Charlotte.
On the way back to Charlotte, I call the FBI agent, try and talk about turning myself in, but she's lies to me a bunch of times.
So then I go back to Charlotte.
When I go back to Charlotte, I get my car, I go into a Starbucks, and I almost get caught in the Starbucks from the U.S. Marshals.
I then go to Nashville, Tennessee.
I borrow $3.5 million and I'm there for about a year and a half.
So I was on the run for about three years and then I was there and I ended up getting caught there because Dateline NBC News was about to come out.
I was leaving.
I was cashing out a bunch of cash out of different banks.
I was pulling money out, right?
Because this was before like Bitcoin and all that stuff.
Like, you know, there was just like the only way to get cash out and 2006 is you go in the bank, you ask for cash.
So I was pulling out cash out of multiple accounts, and we were asking people to cash checks for us.
The girlfriend I was dating at the time asked a friend of hers to pull out cash.
That sparked a conversation.
She told her who I was, and she called the Secret Service, and the Secret Service watched my house for a couple days, and then they arrested me.
Like, that's the short version.
Like, obviously, I've left out a ton of stuff.
Yeah.
But they end up arresting me.
I end up getting 26 years in prison.
I go to prison.
I get my sentence reduced twice.
I end up doing 13 years.
I was in the halfway house four years ago.
The Prison Sentence00:06:53
I called Danny to see about starting a true crime podcast because everybody said I should start a podcast because I wrote a bunch of stories when I was locked up, true crime stories.
Danny used that to get me on the show and then never helped me.
And so I do this podcast.
Like, I'd just gotten out of the halfway house, I'd been out a few months.
And he says, I don't even think you were officially out yet.
No, we talked.
I was in the halfway house.
Yeah.
But when I got out, it was like in October.
I got out in like July.
You called me in October.
You said, Listen, man.
I remember the day you came in, it was a guy, another podcast canceled.
Yeah.
And I was like, can you come in today?
Yeah.
That's what, because that's what you said.
You called me that day.
You was like, listen, like you hadn't put anything up, I think, in a week or two.
And you said, the guy canceled.
Or he rescheduled, yeah.
And he couldn't come in.
And he was like, he's like, because I had called up multiple times and asked him questions about how does YouTube work?
When I got locked up, there was no YouTube.
Yeah.
So I'm like, how does YouTube work?
I don't understand.
How do you make money?
Well, what kind of cameras do you need?
Well, you know, I'm asking him these questions.
And so when Danny called me, he said, listen, somebody canceled.
I need you to come in and do a podcast like today.
I answered all your questions.
Like, you've been annoying me for two or three months now.
You said you'd come in, and I need somebody to come.
I was like, he did answer all my questions.
I conned the con man to the stars.
But I remember I looked at the thing, and I don't know what any of these numbers mean.
But I remember, like, whatever it was that I saw, like, it was like a video.
And I don't know how to do it, right?
Like, I don't know how to do most popular, most this.
So I looked at a few videos, and like, you know, they had like 15,000, 20,000.
And I remember thinking, Oh, I don't think it because I remember thinking like videos got millions, like that's a viral video, it got millions.
And I was like, There's like 15,000, 20,000.
And I went, Nobody even watches this guy's show.
I'll go on his show because I was kind of nervous.
Yeah, yeah, I'll go do it and see what happens.
Good little starter, right?
I come here, it ends up getting you know, 1.5 million views and it's blowing up in a month.
Yeah, and then and then people start reaching out to me saying, Hey, we'd like you to come.
You know, we're having a lunch or we're having a convention.
We'd like you to have lunch with a small group of investors just to tell your story.
Yeah, on a little obscure island in the Virgin Islands.
No, it's Puerto Rico.
In Puerto Rico, yeah.
Little St. James.
And so I fly, and they pay me like 1,800 bucks and they flew me out, flew me out.
I couldn't believe it.
I was like, this is insane.
These guys are going to pay me to come talk to them.
And then life is good.
Right.
And now, and then it becomes, hey, we've got a mortgage convention.
Can you come talk to us?
And I'm like, sure.
How many people will be there?
Like, yeah.
And then we arrange for whatever it is, 3,000, 4,000, however much to fly out, tell my story over the course of 45 minutes, answer some questions for 15 or 20 minutes, get on a plane, fly back.
Nice.
And then that's evolved.
I've been doing that.
I'm trying to do more and more of that.
So if anybody's out there, I speak at mortgage conventions, what do you call it?
Cyber conventions, whatever.
And how long did it take for Home Title Lock to reach out to you and make you the face of their brand?
You know who got home title a lot was Tyler.
Really?
No shit.
I didn't.
I literally remember I used to get up early on like a Saturday and they were always playing on Saturdays, they'd play the infomercial.
And I would go watch those commercials and I'd sit there and watch them.
And, you know, they'd have a lawyer, they'd have an FBI agent, they'd have some victims.
And then they'd have some guy in a hoodie that you couldn't see his face and his voice is muffled.
And I remember thinking, You're showing everybody except for the fraudster.
And I thought, you guys make it seem like you're doing it like cinematically, like on purpose.
But the truth is, you guys can't find anybody to talk about this.
You know, like guys like me don't come out and start talking, they come out and try and kind of re acclimate themselves or blend back into society and don't talk about it.
And I remember thinking, those guys, I need to be doing those commercials, but I forgot about it.
So years later, my booking agent contacts me.
And says, Tyler?
Tyler.
Yeah.
Yeah.
He calls me and says, Listen, have you ever thought, ever heard of a home title lock?
And I was like, Yeah.
And he goes, Well, it's amazing.
Everybody loves it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You'd be perfect for this.
He's like, you'd be perfect for it.
And he said, and I said, that's what I think.
And I told him, I used to watch the commercials.
And he goes, you mind if I reach out and try and talk to them?
I was like, sure.
Listen, an hour later, I get an email from these people saying, hey, we'd love to talk to you.
When can we arrange a meeting?
Next day, I talk to them on the phone.
Give me a couple of days.
I tell her my story.
She looks at the podcast, Danny's podcast, which is like at this point, it's 1.4, 1.5, 1.5, it's climbing.
And she says, we'd love for you to fly you out to Oklahoma and shoot some commercials.
Like a week later, no, like a month or two later, I'm on a plane flying to Oklahoma.
Then they pay me to do all these spots.
And then, listen, that's not like it, it just how many years ago is that?
Is that three years ago?
Four years ago?
You know what's funny?
That's crazy.
Here's what's funny people will say, people will be like, man, would Danny pay you for that?
And I'm like, nothing.
They're like, I had a cheap month.
He didn't pay you nothing.
He didn't give you nothing.
And I'd be like, no, no.
They'd be like, man, what do you even do that for?
Are you serious?
Yeah.
Bro, I haven't had a job since.
Yeah.
Like, I got out.
People are buying paintings from me.
They buy books.
I got book sales.
I'm getting asked to.
Flown out.
I'm getting flown all over the place.
Mind and dine.
Right.
Like, people are so narrow minded that they're like, Yeah.
They don't want to, like, they don't see all the opportunity.
They don't see cash right now.
Yeah.
They don't see it.
And I didn't see it.
But now I realize, like, like.
I bought you Waffle House the first night.
You did.
I only, only because I complained on the way here.
Because I remember saying, listen, man.
Listen, my truck barely, or my Jeep, remember that Jeep?
Right.
Not that this one's that much better, but at least this one's got.
I remember that very first podcast.
We went to Waffle House afterwards.
I love Waffle House.
I fucking love Waffle House too.
It's one of my favorite places.
Yeah.
Now look at you, Matt.
Yeah, I'm doing good.
Now you've been everywhere.
Every big podcast that exists.
Software on TV.
You went to Valutainment.
Valutainment.
Software Underbelly.
Oh, yeah.
You did Software Underbelly.
I did Vlad.
I just did Larry Lawton.
Wow.
Larry, who said, I don't.
I don't interview snitches and sex offenders.
We just had an hour and a half interview.
Cooperating with the Scheme00:15:42
He's like, Well, you know, you did what you did.
What's his problem with snitches and rats?
What's his problem with them?
Probably he's a stand up guy and he doesn't like them.
I feel like they're not okay with sociopathy.
I don't even know what that means.
Sociopath.
Oh, okay.
What do you mean they're not?
Well, they're not okay with recognizing their own sociopathic values like you are.
You're a self admitted narcissist.
Sociopath, which is you're okay with the fact that you ratted people out.
But you mean Larry Lawton?
What's his problem?
Is that what you're saying?
No, I mean, like, what did he say to you?
Like, what was his.
He didn't.
That's what I'm saying.
I really expected, like, a confrontation.
I brought Jess with me, you know, just in case.
He got.
I needed to ease it down a little bit.
No, I thought she could take him.
And.
She probably could.
Like, I'm not going to do well, but Jess is tough.
Nah, bro.
You look at you.
You're freaking Jack Diesel right now.
This is.
Fucking jack.
This is a brand new shirt.
That shirt just came off the racks at Nordstrom.
That is a brand new t shirt.
My target.
So, anyway, we go and we, yeah, he, he, I kept waiting for him to, I was, when we got to that point, I thought he was going to say, be like, you what?
And he was like, yeah, you understand.
You know, they already, these people already snitching on you.
You're in a bad spot.
I was like, that wasn't what I expected from him at all.
And he said, I've kind of changed my, I've softened, softened as I've gotten older, kind of changed my, you probably hear a lot of stories.
What?
Have you ever heard of the prisoner's dilemma?
Yes, yes.
That's a famous one.
He won the Nobel Prize.
Where's that?
Nash.
Can you find out who came up with that, the prisoner's dilemma?
It's fascinating.
I just heard it articulated beautifully in a book I was just reading.
They compare it to mutually assured destruction with nuclear bombs.
Yeah.
It's Nash.
Oh, that's not it.
Who?
His last name is Nash.
The guy, Beautiful Mind.
Oh, really?
A Beautiful Mind.
The guy who that was based on.
His last name is Nash.
He was a mathematician.
Oh, you did?
Michael studied with his grad students.
Wow.
That's cool.
Anyways, so can you explain what that is?
Like what the idea of it is?
It's basically like you have two people who collaborated in a crime, right?
You separate them.
Right.
And you talk to one of them and you say, look, if you don't give me this stuff, you have two options.
You can A, you can give me this information and reduce, get yourself off, basically save yourself.
Right.
And you're going to have to give up this guy.
Right.
Or this guy is going to do the same thing to you.
Like you present them both.
The same thing, and each one thinks that fuck, fuck, fuck.
What if I don't give him up?
He's probably going to give me up.
And they're both thinking the same thing.
Right.
But I think the third.
Can you zoom in on it a little bit?
The Prisoner's Dilemma is a game analyzing in game theory.
It is a thought experiment that challenges two completely rational agents to a dilemma.
They can cooperate.
Two members of a criminal gang.
Okay, there you go.
Two members of a criminal gang.
Yeah, you go ahead and read it.
Hell no.
Two members of a criminal gang, A and B, are arrested and imprisoned.
Each prisoner is in solitary confinement with no means of communication with their partner.
The principal charge would lead to a sentence of 10 years in prison.
However, the police do not have evidence for the conviction.
Their plan is to sentence both to two years in prison on a lesser charge, but offer each prisoner a Faustian bargain.
If one of them confesses to the crime of the principal charge, betraying the other, they will be pardoned and free to leave, while the other must serve the entirety of the sentence instead of just.
Scroll down.
Scroll down.
Instead of just two years for the lesser charge, this leads to a possible of four different outcomes.
Number one, if A and B both remain silent, they will each serve the lesser charge of two years in prison.
B. If A betrays B, B. Wait, wait.
If A betrays B but B remains silent, A will be set free and B will serve 10 years.
Option number three, if A remains silent, But B betrays A, A will serve 10 years, but B will be set free.
Option number four if A and B both betray each other, they share the sentence and share five years each.
Yeah, that's very, very interesting.
So, most prisoners, what do they choose out of these four options, Matt?
Like 90, 95% choose to snitch on each other, right?
No, they, well, the problem is that the scenario doesn't necessarily really work in the real world because if I snitch on you, Who do you snitch on?
They're like, we already got you.
Yeah, they don't even need you to snitch on.
They're not giving you both five years.
Yeah, they just need one person to snitch on.
Right.
Now you're doing 10.
Yeah.
I'll walk away, you do 10.
Yeah.
I put money on your books.
So it's just the first one that snitches.
Right.
But in this scenario where there's two people like this, it's usually, there's always 99% of the time somebody snitches.
It's like, it's probably 90, 95%.
Here's the problem is that the statistics say that's like, It's like 87, 88%.
But the problem with that is that doesn't mean that they didn't, they didn't, the other guys did, that only 88% cooperated.
It means that 88% got the cooperation.
So you and I both might have cooperated, right?
But I get the cooperation, and they say, Yeah, you did tell on them, but that was three days later.
And you're the king too.
Too late.
It's too late.
This guy is going to give you up, and you're the bigger fish.
So you don't get any cooperation.
You're doing 10 years.
He's going free.
And by the way, almost nobody goes free.
Like you're probably still doing two years.
You're still doing two, yeah.
Right.
Which is better than five, it's better than 10.
Right.
And you were even beyond any of these options because you were aggressively going out and seeking opportunities to rap people out in prisons, people that you had no involvement with.
Wow.
Wow.
Nice.
Wow.
That's actually not true, by the way.
That's not what happened.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
I was just writing stories.
Like this guy, at one point, I'm walking around the compound with him, and he says he asked you if he could trust you.
Yeah.
At least you were honest.
Keep in mind, I just love that.
I had just gotten back from getting seven years off my sentence for cooperation.
Yeah.
And then I come back a month or so later, I'm walking around the compound with this guy.
Who's also cooperating against some of his co defendants?
And he keeps saying, he ran a Ponzi scheme.
His name was Ron Wilson.
And he kept saying, Yeah, they're never going to give me any cooperation.
I'm like, Yeah, these guys are going to arrest these guys.
They're going to indict them.
They're going to plead guilty.
You're going to be fine.
They're going to reduce your sentence.
Nah, you don't understand.
I was like, Well, what are you talking about?
And he goes, They think I hid Ponzi scheme money.
I'm like, Well, they'd have to find the Ponzi scheme money.
And you didn't.
I said, Did you?
And he's like, No.
And I go, Well, right.
So you didn't hide it.
They'd have to find it, prove that you were lying.
In order to not give you something.
And he said, no, no, they're going to fuck me out of the cooperation.
I was like, okay, well, that's not possible.
And if it is, then we'll get this.
There was a guy, Frank Amadeo.
Frank will.
Matt, screw that one.
Sorry.
Frank will.
Frank will get you.
Yeah, Frank will reduce, will get them, force the government to reduce your sentence.
So that goes on.
And then let's say, like, let's say two weeks later, comes up again.
And then a month later, It comes up again.
I go, you know, you keep saying this.
Like they would have to find the money.
And I said, there's no money.
So that's not going to happen.
And he sat there and we were walking and he goes, Can I trust you?
And I went, Probably not.
And he goes, I did hide some money.
I gave, you know, my wife, I gave her, it was like 150,000.
He's like, But the problem is she found out since then, she found out he was having an affair.
And she, we're getting a divorce.
She hates my guts.
My fear is she's going to turn the money in just so I don't get any time off my sentence.
And he said, and my brother's got like 30 grand.
I was like, okay.
Like it's not even like 200,000.
It's like that's less than 200,000.
And I didn't like, he won, it fell on my lap and I didn't do anything right away.
That's what I always listen.
I always feel bad about that.
I always feel like you're an idiot.
You should have immediately gone to the phones.
But I didn't because I thought you're Matt running to the phone right after that.
Yeah, right there.
Like in the middle, he just says it.
And I go, what?
And then I just start running, doing like the windmill all the way to the phone.
Frank, meet me at the phone.
But what happened was, I remember thinking the government didn't want to reduce my sentence the first time when they promised to.
So, like, they're not, like, first of all, they're not going to do anything for this.
This is a couple hundred thousand dollars.
And that's if they go there and these people admit it.
And I doubt they will.
So I was like, well, listen, they're not going to say anything.
Don't worry about it.
And so we have the conversation, no big deal.
Like a month later, my lawyer was supposed to send me my transcripts from when I'd been resentenced.
She never did.
So I call her.
Hey, what's up?
I said, You never sent the transcripts.
He's like, Oh, man, I'm so sorry.
I'll do it.
And whatever.
Okay, fine.
You got lost in the shuffle.
Yeah, right.
So we're talking.
So I said, Okay, okay, that's cool.
Please, you know, please don't forget.
She said, No, no, I will.
I'm going to send them.
I'm going to go on right now.
Okay.
And so we're talking.
And she goes, And she says, So what's going on?
And I go, Well, what do you mean?
She says, What's happening in there?
Anything happening?
And I thought, Like, this woman never wanted to talk to me.
Yeah.
When she was representing me, she didn't want to talk to me.
She damn sure doesn't.
Now she hurt me.
Her job done.
Yeah.
And she goes, Yeah, anything happening?
And I went, No, like, and I went, Well, you know, something weird happened the other day.
Listen to this.
And she goes, What's the guy's name?
And I told her what happened.
She goes, What's his name?
I go, Ron Wilson.
She looks him up.
Ron Wilson.
She goes, Oh, wow.
This is a big deal.
There's a lot of articles.
Oh, this is a bad guy.
He's got like 900 victims.
Like he stole from churches and stuff.
And she's going on and on.
Like, I don't know.
I've never ordered anything on the guy.
And she's like, Oh, wow.
She's like, Yeah, yeah.
She goes, Let me make a call.
Couple calls, and I was like, okay, like she never really wanted to just chatted you up, yeah.
And I was like, okay, I hang up the phone, I don't even think about it again.
A week later, a correctional officer comes up to me, he goes, Hey Cox, and I go, Yeah, what's up?
He goes, Next move, you got to go to SIS.
Now, SIS is internal security, right?
Like they're the special investigative services, and they investigate like the other cops, they investigate, they do like investigations against like people bringing in drugs, whatever.
And I was like, okay, or if you're cooperating like against other inmates, we'll cooperate against you.
Each other, or whatever the case may be, you know, cell phones like, hey, that guy's got a cell phone, they snitch on each other, and I was like, um, okay, so I go to SIS, and everybody knows that's what's going on.
But here's the thing I was writing people's stories, ah, so SIS called me eventually every once in a while, maybe every month or so.
They go, Cox, go to SIS.
I'd be like, okay, so I go to SIS, I'd walk, go, what's up, and they go, hold on, Cox, lit, we got a Freedom of Information Act you ordered on this guy, and they'd be like, here, this guy, John Boziak.
Like, what's going on?
You're not allowed to have his stuff.
I'm like, no, no, no, I'm allowed to have that.
And then I'd explain, I'm writing a story on that guy.
You got to give me that.
I need that.
I need that.
And they'd be, they'd go, well, what's the story?
Because I'd had some guys in Rolling Stone magazine and I'd been in some magazines.
They knew I was writing stories.
They knew I had a book deal.
So they're like, well, what's the story?
And I'd tell them the story and they'd go, okay, here, you can have it.
So I go there thinking, they just caught something in the mail.
Open the door.
They go, go stand in that room.
I'm like, okay.
I walk in.
I walk in the room.
There's a fat CEO there and he goes, sit down.
I'm like, okay.
Dials the phone.
This is how they talk to you.
Sit down.
All right.
They dial the phone.
Yeah.
Yeah, I got him right here.
All right.
Hold on.
Here.
Talk to this guy.
I'm like, okay.
Like, he didn't tell me shit.
Yeah.
You're like, what the fuck's going on?
Guy goes, this is Agent, you know, whatever.
I remember his last name was Griffin.
This is Tom.
I think it's Tom Griffin.
He goes, this is Tom Griffin with the Secret Service.
I understand that you know where Ron Wilson hid some Ponzi scheme money.
I'm like, whoa.
Oh, shit.
I said, whoa, whoa, whoa.
I need something in writing.
I need, he's like, yeah, yeah, no, I'll get you something in writing.
Whoa, whoa, whoa.
Well, what do you have?
I said, No, no, no, no.
Like, yeah, you guys are involved with me multiple times.
And I was like, No, no, I need something in writing.
I need, and so I explain it to him.
I need something in writing from the U.S. attorney.
And I said, Listen, it's not millions.
He goes, Well, how much is that?
I go, It's not millions.
He goes, Half a million?
I go, It's not millions.
Okay.
It's a few hundred thousand dollars, but I do know where it is.
And the people, Wilson seems to think that they're going to give it up if you even ask for it.
And he goes, Okay, I'll get you something.
So we end up emailing each other.
He gets me something from the U.S. Attorney's Office saying that they will reduce my sentence if there are arrests or if there's an indictment, arrests, or a significant amount of money is recovered.
You know, all that's pretty subjective.
Whatever that's supposed to be.
Right.
So I explain this is what he told me.
They turn around, they request interviews from both of those people, from the wife, who at that point they're getting, I don't know if they were divorced yet, but they were getting divorced.
And his brother, his wife comes in.
And turns over, remember he said $150,000 in cash.
She comes in and turns over $350,000.
The brother comes in the next day and walks in and turns in $150,000.
So it's half a million.
And some of it's like silver, you know, ingots and, you know, because he was a silver, it was a precious metals dealer.
So she's got fucking gold coins.
She's got, so it's mostly cash, but there's also probably $100,000 between the two of them in gold and silver and whatever.
So it's a half a million dollars.
And listen, like a couple weeks later, Wilson comes to me and he goes, They indicted me.
I'm like, No, they indicted you.
He's like, Yeah, that's crazy.
What happened for what?
My wife, they called my wife and my brother.
How did they know?
I don't know.
That's crazy.
And he's like, Yeah, I've been indicted.
And I'm like, Okay.
And so they put him on a bus, bring him back to South Carolina.
He pleads guilty.
Because he's done and he gets six months added onto his sentence.
His ex wife gets like six months probation and the brother gets like six months probation and like I think the wife got a hundred community service hours.
Like neither one of them became felons.
It was their sentence was under a year.
So you're in the federal system if it's over a year, you're a felon.
It's under, you're not.
So both their sentences were under.
They're both, and it was for obstruction of justice.
They were.
Charged with obstruction of justice.
So was Wilson.
Wilson got six months.
He already had 19 and a half years.
Now he's got 20.
Turn around, go to the U.S. Attorney.
Facing Indictment00:04:54
Hey, you said you'd reduce my sentence.
If there was a substantial amount of money recovered, arrests or indictments, there was all of those.
And they said, that's not really enough.
But first, they said, we don't really know what he's talking about.
We don't even know what Cox is talking about.
So I had to file a motion with the court.
Well, Frank Amadeus filed a motion with the court.
2255.
They said, We don't even know what he's talking about, Your Honor.
We sent him a copy of the letter.
The judge says, I want to, we weren't in the evidentiary hearing or something like that.
And, you know, you guys are going to, we'd have to figure this out.
And so they immediately come back and they say, Look, we'll reduce your sentence.
We'll give you, I forget what it was, one level off.
We argue.
We end up with three levels off, which was five more years.
Six months later, I get five years knocked off my sentence.
And you get six months added.
He got six months added, but then COVID happened.
And he got released.
He's home now.
Oh, really?
He's been home since COVID.
He's been home for a couple of years.
Where does he live?
South Carolina.
He'd be a great guest.
We got to be happy.
Listen, let me tell you something.
Didn't he, didn't like something happen?
Somebody said he like thanked you or something later on.
This is what's so funny.
So I've heard two things.
That story is true, but then I'll tell you something, another one too, which is the opposite.
So what happened is probably, whatever, five, four or five months after he was sentenced.
I'm standing there waiting for count, right?
I'm standing at my cell.
Okay.
And, you know, you've seen prison shows, right?
Like, you know, they're just door after door.
Well, we don't have doors.
This was at a low.
So there's just, it's just an open, kind of an open bay, but they have, you have like, you're like at a cubicle, but it's concrete block.
So you're standing there waiting for the cop to walk by and count.
And you're standing there, and this new guy had just gotten there.
Black guy.
He's still wearing his, he's still wearing his, the bus clothes they ship you in.
And he's standing there, and I'm standing there, and he looks up at me, he goes, Hey, there's not a lot of white guys in prison.
So if you ask, like, hey, you know where Dan, you know, you know, you know where Danny is, like, there's a good chance the white guy's like, Yeah, there's like four white Dannys.
Yeah.
So he goes, Hey.
And I go, Yeah, what's up?
And he goes, You know a guy named Cox?
And I went, Yeah.
What do you need?
And he goes, I got a message from Ron Wilson.
And I looked at him and I went, Huh.
And I'm thinking, This is going to be a problem.
Yeah.
This is where the movie goes bad.
Yeah.
This is where I get stabbed.
Like I'm already looking at his hands.
I'm like, Okay.
And I went, Yeah.
I said, I'm Matt Cox.
He goes, Get the fuck out of here.
I said, I'm Matt Cox.
I said, What's up?
And he goes, No, seriously, I pull out my ID and he goes, Holy shit.
She kind of laughs.
He goes, Okay.
He said, Yeah, I got a message from him.
And I said, What's that?
We're still waiting for the count for the cop.
Like he's counting the other unit.
He'll be here in five minutes or two minutes.
Who knows?
And he goes, He said, He, and he looks around, right?
Because he realizes what we're talking about is pretty dicey.
And he kind of looks around and he goes, He said, I was locked up in South Carolina with him.
And I went, Okay.
He said, He wanted, he told me, he goes, Because He knew I was coming to Coleman, to the low.
And he said to look you up.
And he told me to tell you that he understands what you did.
He's not angry.
He hopes you get as much time off as you can.
Now, by this point, I'd already got my time off.
And he goes, Hopes you get as much time off as you can.
And he wanted to let you know he's at peace.
He's found Jesus.
And I went, He was a religious guy, anyway.
And I went, Okay.
I said, all right.
And he goes, yeah.
And I said, is this going to be an issue?
Like, am I going to hear that you're telling everybody this?
And he goes, no.
He said, let me put it this way.
He said, bro, he said, I'm going to, he said, he said something like, he goes, I just got, you know, six years or something.
He said, but I fit, he goes, but I plan on being out of here in a few months.
Like that.
And I said, ah.
And he goes, he goes, that's between you and me.
I said, absolutely.
He said, but I, Wilson told me about you and the whole thing.
He's like, I got you.
I understand.
I said, all right.
That guy was gone two months later.
Yeah.
Two months later.
And I would see him, like, we'd walk by each other.
He'd look up.
He'd go, What's up?
I go, What's up?
One day, boom, he's on the attack out, gone.
So, do you know how he got out?
No, he had snitched on a bunch of people.
He'd already testified at several trials.
He was just waiting for those people to get sentenced and then to reduce.
He's out.
He's gone.
So, what's funny is, so that's what I had always heard that Wilson didn't have an issue, right?
You're all like.
So, then what happened was, I'd say.
The Cost of Snitching00:08:46
Oh, never mind.
Then I did an interview with a guy that I was locked up with, this guy named Chris Morero.
He's like a sovereign citizen.
And we're doing an interview.
Maybe it was before the interview.
And Chris had been moved to, I don't know if it was Yazoo or Butner, I forget.
But he'd been moved and he was locked up with Wilson.
I said, Hey, I said, You locked up with Wilson?
And he goes, Yeah, yeah.
He told me.
He told me about you, about what happened.
I said, Yeah, you know, it is what it is.
And I'm laughing about it.
He said, Boy, he hates you.
And I go, Really?
I said, I told him what had happened.
And he said, he goes, Well, I mean, maybe that's true.
He said, but when I mentioned you, I said, hey, you know, what's up?
I said, I asked him if he was still in communication with you.
And he goes, and he said, what did he say?
That piece of shit motherfucker or something like that.
Like, he really, he was, oh, really?
Just, you know, that he snitched me out, which always kills me.
He was in the middle of snitching out two guys on his case.
Like, you were in the middle of snitching.
So you snitched, but didn't you snitch?
Fuck you.
Yeah.
What are you doing?
You just had a bad day.
Right.
Oh, man.
So that's what Chris told me.
Oh, yeah, he hates your guts.
So I was like, okay, well, that's completely at odds with what the black guy told me.
Well, we need to get to the bottom of it.
How do you talk to people who are extremely uncomfortable with you admitting to being a snitch?
Like that guy, that one guy you did a podcast with, when they get really upset about you being a snitch and start sweating.
Wait, what's this?
Big Herc?
Big Herc.
Yeah.
How do you rationalize it to them?
Yeah.
I mean, I rationalize it because here's the problem with those guys.
Those guys always turn around and say that, well, the code of the street, like, and that's where it just right then it's like, stop it.
Like, they're trying to say, hey, there's a moral code among inmates or among prisoners or criminals that say you don't cooperate against other criminals.
But the truth is, if you're a criminal, you don't really have a moral code.
If you're a moral person, Or a code of ethics, like you would be working two jobs to pay your bills and not robbing banks.
So for you to sit there and say, Hey, I'm a moral person, I have a code.
Yeah, but there's a difference between like fucking over a friend or a fellow human being versus just not obeying the laws that are put into place by our country or our government.
But who am I fucking over?
Another criminal.
You think he wouldn't fucking over?
You know, he's a criminal defined by the government.
He's still another.
He's still another human being.
He could be a friend.
Yeah.
There's a difference between selling drugs and destroying your friend's life.
Well, wait a minute.
My friend's committing fraud or my friend is selling drugs with me.
I'm not randomly saying, hey, I'm going to go pick somebody and say, this guy who works at Walmart as a cashier and has never done anything wrong, I'm going to say he sells drugs with me.
Like, I'm not going to do that.
But if you and I run into a bank together, And we run out, and I get caught, and you take off, and I'm looking at 15 years, and you're not answering my fucking calls anymore.
You're fucking done.
You're done.
I mean, I get in the bottom bunk, bud.
Yeah.
I mean, anyway, what if we're both caught?
What if we're both in prison, and we're in the prisoner's dilemma, and we're both separated?
And you'd better hope they talk to you before they talk to you.
I mean, I don't know what to say.
You know, I know that.
I mean, the appropriate thing to say is, you know, I would never.
Here's the thing.
You remember the guy.
Oh, that's right.
Okay.
I interviewed a guy the other day.
That gave up like $11 million in gold to the government to try to get out of prison.
And they reduced his sentence.
They got him out.
Now, when we were talking during the interview, he said, You know, they caught me.
They got me in the room.
They wanted me to snitch, but I was like, I'd rather die.
I'd rather die than snitch.
And I was like, Right, right.
He's like, You know, you know what I'm saying?
I said, No, I don't.
I said, Bro, I said, I'd have fucking told on anybody.
You made a mistake there.
And he kind of like stopped and he went, Well, so, so I, and he didn't, obviously, he doesn't.
Realize my stance on it.
So he just kept going and said, you know, they asked for this much money back.
He gave them that.
They wouldn't like, gave him like whatever.
He gave him like three or four million in gold.
They said, no, you got more because somebody else was cooperating.
And they said, no, you got more.
And so he takes them.
Finally, he said, after a month or so, I finally went, Fuck, man, I can't do this.
So he said, I went and I gave him the rest of the money.
I said, Okay.
And he said, You know, and so then, like a couple days later, they let me out, they gave him a minor sentence and he ended up getting out of prison.
I forget exactly what he ended up getting, but it was instead of the 15 or 20 years, he got next to nothing and he got out.
So the point is that, so that's what he was saying, right?
Like, Yeah, you know, this and that, I would never, I would never.
And then when it was all over and the cameras were off, I looked at him and I said, You know, you fuck.
Up by giving them all that money back and not just cooperating against all those fucking people.
Same people that are cooperating against you, I said.
And he goes, and I, you know, I said, I mean, I hear what you say, you'd rather die, you die.
He said, Well, that's how I felt then.
He said, But after going to prison and after what happened with all those people and realizing that everybody was cooperating against me, he said, Even after I got sentenced, people would get arrested that I didn't tell on and they would cooperate against me.
They'd try and get me fucked up on something else.
He said, I just, he said, at that point, I realized like, Yeah, he said, I really fucked up.
He said, and I said, you know what?
I said, I'll bet you all those people you didn't cooperate against, I'll bet you none of them contacted you.
None of them came to visit you.
None of them put money on your books.
He goes, they don't answer my calls.
I said, right.
So, for a bunch of scumbag pieces of shits that wouldn't even talk to you anymore, they expected you to take the whole rap and they run off and I'm left here.
It's not like you guys are putting money on my books.
You're helping my mom.
You're going by to see how my ex wife is.
You're going by to help.
You know, with the kids.
No, you're saying you got caught, go fuck yourself.
See ya.
The fuck you.
And then if it's every man, so they're saying it's every man for himself.
You're right, it is.
But watch this.
And next thing you know, you start cooperating.
They all get knocked off.
You get a bunch of time off your sentence.
Still got a few million in gold.
Yeah, exactly.
Like that guy could have cooperated and kept the money.
And that's what he says about, I wish I'd, and he said, I wish I'd cooperated and kept the money.
But he didn't know that at the time.
He was still believing that whole thing.
Bullshit code.
And listen, all of these guys that I talk to say the same thing.
And there are guys I know that I'll interview and they'll say, Yeah, you know, and they gave me 10 years.
And I'm just like, They gave you 10 years?
Like, the man, you've been arrested four times.
You've been in prison four times.
You've been like, the mandatory minimum is 20 on that many kilos of meth.
How'd you get 20?
You know, you got 10.
But I don't say anything because I know what they want to do.
It's the same thing Big Herc does.
He doesn't question.
Some guy says he robbed 10 banks and he got five years.
Stop it, bro.
Stop it.
You took people hostage.
You did home invasion.
You got five years.
Yeah.
And then they, yeah, my fucking could have finished.
They snitched on me.
Okay.
Typically, what happens is when it's all over, I realize, like, I'm not going to out you.
You don't want to fucking say it.
That's fine.
But when it's all over, I say, bro, come on, man.
You got fucking.
And they usually go, well, you know, I watched, like, I'm going to tell you, but you don't want anybody to know.
Okay, I understand.
And then they say, well, yeah, here's what happened.
Listen, half the fucking stories that I've written, either they admit to it and the ones that won't admit it, I know the truth.
Like, I got all your paperwork in.
You're walking around saying you're a solid guy.
And it's like, bro, you had a 20 year mandatory minimum.
You got 10 years.
What's, I read your sentencing transcript.
What's that about?
What's up with the 5K1?
They're like, hey, Where'd you get that?
Yeah.
Don't say 5K1.
That's a sentence reduction.
Like, don't say 5K1.
I'm, I'm, I'm walking around the compound telling everybody they're snitches, you know, and then I'm a stand up guy.
Like, it's like, you're not even man enough to just fucking.
To even admit to it.
So, one, you cooperated.
Now you won't even say it.
Yeah.
Now you're telling everybody else, oh, that dude over there, yeah, I think he fucking snitched.
You snitched.
Shut up.
Like, just be quiet.
That's what that guy, John A. Light, said when he was in here, and he was in some sort of Rico case.
Right.
And he said that there was like an endless laundry list of mob guys that snitched on him to get out.
Running Up Numbers00:03:25
Yeah.
Which fucked him.
Well, listen.
And they were all guys that were like high level mafia dudes.
Of course.
And those are the guys that are most outspoken about like snitching.
Yeah.
Snitches get stitches or they get fucking buried in the desert.
And this is the other thing about that is like, if you're a high, like these are guys that it could be dangerous to tell on each other.
Like these are white collar guys.
They're not hurting anybody.
They're not going to, like, aren't you worried?
Am I worried about the banker?
The banker, he's going to come and do a hit on me because he got five years or he got six extra months.
He's a fucking banker.
He fills out paperwork.
He's harmless.
It'd be different if these were murderers or gangsters or, you know, monsters that are shooting.
Well, then you could be like, yeah, they might hurt my family.
That's another thing.
Like, that always kills me too.
Like, well, I don't want to say anything.
They might kill my family.
Like, these are the people you're protecting.
People that you're worried they might kill your family.
These are good guys.
These are scumbags.
I cut anybody's fucking throat to get out of prison.
Clip that.
Straight up.
I love it.
Do me a favor.
Look at me and then look directly at that camera and say, I'd cut anybody's throat to get out of prison.
I'd cut anybody's throat to get out of prison.
That's a good one.
That's it.
That's fucking great.
There's a, what your TikToks got.
I noticed that several of my clips have millions.
Oh, yeah.
I just, we just posted one a couple of days ago that has like, I just looked, I just noticed today it has 5 million views.
Not a TikTok.
It's a YouTube short.
A YouTube short.
5 million views in like a week.
Yeah.
That's.
How many subscribers do you have now?
I don't know.
It's like almost.
There's like 600 and something, 600 and change on the main channel.
And then it's like 300,000.
I have 300 on the Cliff channel.
That's insane.
I have 77,000 subscribers.
Not that I'm complaining, but it's not 600,000.
Like, that's insane.
I have these people that clip my stuff and put them up, and they got like 3 million hits, 5 million, 7 million, 4 million.
It's like, what is going on?
They're doing more views on their clips than you are.
I got guys' entire channels.
I mean, you know, four or five, 6,000.
You know, they just started a channel, ran a couple of interviews, ran a couple of clips, and they got 5,000.
That all helps, though.
That all helps you.
It doesn't, I mean, maybe not directly, but it definitely helps.
Not right now.
I don't know if you've picked this up, but I'm not really a big fan of helping other people once it benefits me.
You know, I don't know anybody out there helping me going out of their way.
Let me do this to help me.
Actually, that's not true.
There's this guy, this Canadian guy that started my TikTok account, got taken down.
And he started a TikTok account for me five months ago, maybe.
And it's got over 100,000 followers in like five months.
Nice.
Yeah.
But then he got busy and can't do it anymore.
So I had to get somebody else.
And he did that for free.
Really?
Cut him up and said, Look, man, he said, Can I start doing this for you?
I'm like, Why?
I can't pay you.
And he was like, No, no, I just want to do it.
I just think I can run up your numbers.
That's great.
Yeah.
You got people that like you.
You got people that follow you.
They're hardcore fans.
They believe in what you're doing and they connect with you because you're a great storyteller.
They believe in what you're doing.
China's Economic Threat00:17:36
What am I doing?
You're telling stories.
You're talking to people, interviewing people, spreading the word.
You're doing shit.
You get these guys that send me things saying you're inspirational.
What are you talking about?
I've never said anything inspirational in my life.
Like, I'm not making an attempt to be inspirational.
Title lock.
I don't understand.
You're inspirational because of your incredible physique, Matt Cox.
I want to know the secret behind what is your workout routine?
What are you eating?
I mean, it's too much.
The basics, test, D ball.
He just goes on them.
Dude, it's fucking insane.
So, what do you want?
What's your protocol right now?
Are you waking up at 5 a.m. every day and hitting the iron or what?
No, I wake up at about 3.
This morning?
This morning, I woke up at like 3 30.
You're like Jocko.
You're like the Jocko of true crime.
So, I wake up and I write for a couple hours, two, three hours.
And then Jess gets up from 3 to 6.
Yeah, well, usually probably from let's say three to five because around five, Jess comes down the stairs and makes coffee.
And she'll make me a cup of coffee and then she'll sit there and we'll talk for a little bit, a little on and off.
She plays on Facebook and we kind of talk.
And then she goes up and she gets her daughter up.
And then by six, yeah, by six o'clock, we walk out the door and we go to the gym.
What do you write about when you wake up?
I mean, I'm still.
Do you just start writing or do you like pick things?
No, no, no.
I'm working on three different stories right now.
So, one of them is consolidating that one story.
And I don't always do that.
Like, sometimes I'll write, like, somebody will pay me to do a press release, and I'll write a press release, or they'll ask me to write a story, like a ghostwrite a story.
So, I'll ghostwrite a story for somebody.
And then they pay me.
And then, so it's not always, you know, it's not, or sometimes I'll wake up, like, I'd say three days out of the week, maybe four days out of the week.
I'm at probably four days out of the week, I'm writing.
So maybe the other two or three days, like I might come downstairs and do something regarding painting or fill out bills or answer emails.
Or sometimes I'll just grab my phone and start answering comments.
Like a bunch, I'll answer like 40 comments, 50 comments.
And, you know, and then, but usually, because here's the thing I'm working with my buddy Pete, right?
In prison.
Right.
And he does research and then he sends it to me.
And then I pull it off the email, put it into.
A word document, and then I consolidate it because he'll send me, he'll send me like a thousand words that really, honestly, I need like 150, 200.
What is he researching?
He's researching that, that, listen, that same story I started the same time of the pandemic, and then we just kind of stopped working on it, and then we started working on it.
It was the Chinese, it's the Chinese story about the, the, where these, the, what do you call it?
The, the Chinese triad, and, In California, they started hitting this back in the early 90s.
They started robbing computer chip manufacturing plants in the United States, throughout the United States.
Like they did, probably maybe 20, 25 to 30 different warehouses, sorry, manufacturing plants.
They'd go in, they'd zip tie 15 employees at two o'clock in the morning.
They'd load up 10,000 Intel processing chips into a couple of vans, and then they'd drive off and then they'd go sell them for, you know, maybe it's $10 million worth of chips.
They'd sell them for like, $6 million, the Chinese would ship them back to China, put them into computers, and then ship them back to the United States.
Like the whole Chinese startup of building their whole tech industry was built on stealing computer chips in the United States and shipping them back to China to then ship them back to sell them to the United States.
When was this?
Back in the late 80s, early 90s.
Wow.
Listen, it was so bad that Bill Clinton ended up making a presidential.
What do they call it?
Not a presidential order.
What do they call it?
You know, they do a.
Can you pull up something on this, Chris?
Where he signed.
Yeah, you know, they signed into law because if it's national security, then they can just sign.
It's a presidential.
I want to say decree, but I'm saying it wrong.
Anyway, he signs it where he says, Listen, it was so bad.
He says, From now on, all computer chip manufacturers have to have armed guards because they were getting robbed left and right.
And so then these guys turn around, they start hitting the trucks.
So now they wait for them to load up the trucks, and then they just hit the trucks over.
And anyway, it's a super cool story.
The name of the guy was John Long.
But I mean, whether there's something on it specifically or not, John Long, who is John Long?
John Long is the guy that was arranging all of these.
Really?
This guy's got two life sentences.
What?
Plus probably 150 years.
He's in a pen.
He's never getting out.
I talked to him on the phone a couple of times.
Hardcore gangster.
I mean, they were making millions and millions.
We're talking about like a 25 year old kid, 25, 26 year old kid.
And he's getting directly paid by China.
Well, I mean, like he's getting paid through intermediaries.
Like it's not like Xi Jinping was cutting him a check or, you know, walking over here.
But yeah.
So.
I wonder if you put computer chip, was it Chinese computer chip heist?
No, that's 2016.
John Long, John Long, John Long computer chip heist.
Well, listen, it was multiple different times that they got arrested.
So they didn't all get arrested at the same time.
What is the title?
Arm robbers of Silicon Valley.
Striking high tech companies every 10 days or so, making off with computer chips and other components worth more than their weight in gold.
Terrorized and losses in millions.
The FBI and the San Jose police began an undercover operation 18 months ago.
By today, in the wake of the biggest crackdown on thieves of computer components in the country, dozens of suspected high tech brigands were under arrest, caught in a sweeping raid that involved more than 500 police and federal officers on Wednesday.
Whoa.
The operation led to more than 120 arrests, mainly in Silicon Valley, about 45 of them on Wednesday, and the arrest over recent months, the authorities said.
Today.
Damn, bro.
But do we still make computer chips in the US?
We don't make them, right?
They make them all in Taiwan now.
Yeah.
But those are the semiconductors.
Those are not the same thing, right?
Well, I mean, the United States makes, I'm sure they make some of them, but something like 80% of all computer chips are made in Taiwan.
And there are chips made in China, but they're low level chips.
Like they might be chips that you put in a refrigerator or.
Right, right, right.
But these are not super sophisticated.
What are the ones that are made in Taiwan?
What's the stuff that goes into those?
It goes in your car, they go into computers, like your computers, your cell phones, and they'll ship them over to China.
And the Chinese are, they'll put them into the, they're workers, they're not super sophisticated.
That's the problem with where they keep saying, if they invade Taiwan, they're not going to bomb the crap out of Taiwan because they want to invade it because they obviously want their, at least they want the factories and everything put in place.
The problem is, even if they get over there, if they kill too many people, they can't necessarily run the factories.
So, yeah.
And they don't want to bomb the factories either.
Right.
They showed some sort of animation of like all these bases in China basically like sending missiles over the fucking water and like hitting Taiwan, like some sort of threat simulation that they like posted.
Right.
But that's the problem is like, so you've got to, if you bomb the hell out of them, then you've taken over the island.
But I mean, you've destroyed, first of all, it's all fucked up.
It's all fucked up.
And then they've already seen what they did in Ukraine, right?
Like Russia invaded Ukraine and Putin kind of thought, meh.
One, they're going to invite us in.
That wasn't true.
And two, the Europeans and Americans won't do anything.
They'll bitch and moan.
They might put a couple sanctions, but they're not going to really do anything.
And that's not what happened at all.
So now China is watching that, and China was thinking to themselves, if that goes well, we'll invade Taiwan because we'll get the same treatment.
But now they are like, okay, if we invade Taiwan and these guys put an embargo on us and kind of quarantine us, like in six months, we're starving to death.
They can't feed themselves.
Right.
So.
That's a problem.
That's what that guy Zayhan says, right?
Peter Zane or whatever his name is I'm talking about.
Yeah, yeah.
I listen to him.
He's smart, dude.
Yeah.
And yeah, he also talks about the gap in their workforce.
There's a huge, because of the one China policy.
What's that?
I'm sorry, one China policy.
The one child per family policy.
Oh.
So there's like, for like 30 years or so, 30 to, yeah, I think is it 30 to 40 years?
No, it's about, so I think it's almost 40 years.
So, like 35 years, let's say.
China basically, they were concerned that they were growing too fast and they were afraid that like the new generation was going to like eat them out of existence.
Like, we're not able to feed ourselves and we've got, everybody's having kids and stuff.
So, they said you can, every family can have one child.
Yeah.
So, two things happened.
One, the bulk of the people that did have children ended up having boys.
They're dropping, they're giving away girls.
You could, listen, in the 80s and 90s, in 2000, You could, if you wanted to adopt a girl, a little Chinese girl, you could get one because they were giving them up left and right.
Or they were aborting them or they were like abandoning them.
So what happens is the bulk of children are male in China, right?
So it's like a huge, it's like two men for every one woman or three men for every one woman.
So that's a problem.
And the second problem is that in order to pay for the retirees, you have to be able to replenish.
Your workforce.
Well, they have a huge gap in their workforce.
So you don't have enough people to fill the jobs and you don't have enough.
So that means that the economy is going to decline.
And then those people that are paying in, there's not enough money being generated to pay for the retirement of the older generation.
So there's like this huge gap.
So now if you and I, if I'm married, I have to take care of my parents, your parents, and probably some other parents.
Like, how do you, how do you, How do you do that?
It's a lot to come up with.
And these jobs aren't being filled because there's not enough people to fill the jobs.
So the economy is going to shrink.
Like Peter Zohan or whatever his name is Zane.
Zane?
Yeah.
He's saying, like, listen, 10 years from now, they're going to be devastated.
They're already seeing the effects.
10 years, they'll be devastated.
30 years from now, that whole country's fucking collapsing.
And they all know that.
It's the same thing's happening in Russia.
You know, the United States, we have a slight dip, but not a huge one.
Keep in mind, too, like in World War II and stuff, like we didn't lose as many people as everybody else did.
And we came back, our economy boomed.
Other economies didn't boom for decades, it took to recover.
So if you're broke, you don't have kids.
You know, we came back and there were baby boomers.
Like people started getting jobs, the economy boomed, they're having kids around the world.
That didn't happen.
So there's this massive, and here's the problem is that as that workforce, Isn't there if you said, okay, well, here's what we're going to do.
We're going to start promoting, like in Japan, they promote you to have children.
That's great.
But those kids will be ready to work in 25 years or 20 years.
What do you do?
We need them now.
So it's only going to get worse.
It's the thing, too.
The media all of a sudden turned the whole narrative like China, China, China, that everyone's got to be worried about China.
There's this spy balloon, this China spy balloon.
So they're trying to like the media narrative, everyone left and right, they both united against China.
Everyone's united against China right now.
Did you see that video on TikTok where they have like 40 or 50 newscasters?
All things the same.
Oh my God.
It was like, it was literally like they must have emailed all of them at the same time.
And all of them, they literally, they don't even rewrite it.
They're reading it verbatim, what the government's telling them to say.
It was so airy.
It's like, oh, no, you're not basically just an arm of the federal government.
Michael, I'm going to text this to you.
But yeah, anyway, so we're like, we're like united against China right now.
So like the U.S., both the left and right are both like in line with going after China or like trying to paint China as the bad guy.
Yeah.
And that's, some people speculate that's because they know that we're going to have to get involved in Taiwan.
Yeah, definitely.
I mean, you don't want China taking over Taiwan.
Like, China's, they're very outspoken about basically, they're just, they want to be the world power.
Like the United States is right now.
They want to be, they want to replace the United States.
They want to replace the dollar.
They want to replace the United States as being the.
Yeah, but here's the thing everyone paints all these scary narratives.
Like, they have all these, they're way more technologically advanced than us.
Control our power grids, they can control all this stuff, but they're not doing anything.
I think because I think we are leaps and bounds ahead of China when it comes to any of this stuff, we're leaps and bounds ahead of anybody else in the world.
We spent literally a trillion dollars just south of a trillion dollars last year on the military industrial complex.
Like, that's that's the next nine countries in line.
That's more than all of them combined, right?
It's insane, yeah.
It's and if you look at some of like the blue sky research, some of these scientists are doing, and like these companies like DARPA and like these.
The stuff that they're fucking researching and like look at those drones that are off the fucking coast, bro.
Like that.
There's gotta be, there's no, I can't fathom that the people that are like in the, the people who are running like the military industrial complex and the people that are in these organizations, like these private military contractors, they're not worried about China.
Like the stuff that they're doing and testing and researching is gotta be more than two decades ahead of China.
Right.
But, I mean, you know, to sit there and say, oh, well, what do you, you know, we do our own independent, you know, investigations.
We look into things.
We don't get our marching orders from the federal government.
Are you serious?
Like, that was like the U.S. government sent out a massive email.
And then, like, the Twitter files where they're like, oh, yeah, listen, we need this post taken down.
We need this taken down.
We need this done.
We need to suppress this.
We need to.
And then they lied.
Like, the whole time they were saying, this is what you're doing.
And they're like, no, we're not.
No, we're not.
Then Elon Musk takes over and says, yeah, you are.
And then they're like, oh, well, we're not going to talk about that anymore.
Right.
It's like, you know, hey, we're going to raid Trump's office and we're going to get him and we're going to throw him in jail because he's holding these papers, these secret papers.
And then you find out that Biden's got a bunch of them.
And then they say, yeah, okay, well, let's drop that.
It's also, it's also, what are you doing?
It's also so weird that, like, and just like the government aligns, they're all aligned left and right.
When it comes to war, they're lockstep.
They're, they're in full agreement on war.
Like, let's spend all this money on war.
Let's, let's do it.
We're going to fucking go invade Ukraine and then we're going to go fight Russia and then we're going to go help Taiwan.
And oh, if you don't support Taiwan, who are you?
You're a racist, you're a sexist, you're a homophobe.
Well, okay, so one, there's a whole slew of Republicans that don't want to give Ukraine any money.
They're like, we don't need to be involved in it.
There are a huge slew of Republicans.
But here's the problem I mean, I don't know their name, but I've seen tapes where they're like, we're giving so much money to them and it's ridiculous.
And we have people, homeless people here, and it's mostly Republicans.
But here's the problem I feel like they're, and it looks like I'm extremely conservative.
But it's to me, it's like, stop it, bro.
You guys know damn well you can't let Putin just start invading countries.
And I think they're only doing that because Biden's behind it.
Like, if Trump was in the office, you guys would be behind him.
You know what I'm saying?
There's some people.
Yeah, they just want to get votes, right?
Right.
And I'll bet you the moment if Trump got back into office, I'll bet all of you guys would step in line saying, yeah, let's send him tanks.
Let's send what you were saying.
You know, and then of course, the Democrats that are now saying, let's send him this, let's send him that would be like, no, we need to back off.
You know, Some of them are so stupid.
Well, also, the U.S. isn't helping negotiate a peace deal between them.
They're actually not, actively not trying to negotiate a peace deal because they want to spend more money.
And then eventually, when the contracts to rebuild Ukraine come in, those are going to be U.S. contracts.
Right.
Well, they can't rebuild it.
Imagine if China negotiated a peace deal between Ukraine and Russia.
That would be terrible for us.
Negotiating Peace Deals00:15:15
First of all, Putin isn't going to pull back.
And they're saying, we're not going to accept anything unless you pull back.
Like, you guys have to pull all your troops back.
We get our entire country back and we can negotiate a peace.
And so they're at odds.
Neither one of them want to budge.
But the problem is, once again, you've got a problem because Ukraine has so many fewer people.
Even though Ukraine is killing, like, it's for every one Ukrainian that dies, it's like three Russians die.
And you think, man, they're kicking ass.
They are kicking ass.
But if you've got, let's say, You know, 2 million troops and Russia has, well, let's say, let's say you have 200,000 troops and Russia has 3 million troops.
Like, yeah, you're kicking ass.
You guys are taking out a lot of their guys, but it's only 600,000.
You're only going to be able to take out 600,000 before you're gone and they still have 1.4 million.
And Putin doesn't care about throwing wave after wave of these guys because he can't lose because if he loses, like, you don't, in Russia, you don't.
Typically, retire to your dacha in the mountains and do well.
Like the new guy comes in and says, The coffers are empty.
They've been robbing the country for the last 20 years.
Go arrest this guy.
And so now he ends up in prison or he ends up dead.
Like he knows, like he's only got one choice I've got to stay in power as long as possible.
That's a scary situation.
Yeah.
And he's probably the richest man in the world.
I mean, you know, probably very close to it.
Yeah.
Cause they always, cause those guys don't, they don't really tell their wealth.
Mm hmm.
So, and he's been robbing, you know, robbing the coffers for 20, is it 20 years?
30?
Is it 30 years?
I think it's, has he been in power for 30 years?
20, 20?
I think it's been like 20, 25 years, 25 years.
Yeah.
At least, like, yeah, I think it's 20 or 25 years, right?
It was early, early 90s.
Yeah.
Well, the wall came down in 90, I think, or 89 or 90.
Yeah.
It was 89.
And then in 90, and then 91, all the countries basically broke apart.
Here's the thing about that area.
The control of different parts of that area of the world have always been interchanging, like throughout our history, right?
And just because Russia, they only really wanted their Donbass region.
They didn't really, I don't think they wanted all of Ukraine.
Well, what they want.
I think he wants all of those Eastern Soviet, the former Soviet bloc countries.
I think he wants them all.
But the reason he wants them back, this is what kills me, is everybody says, well, he wants them as a buffer zone because there's so much flat land between Moscow and Eastern Europe that you can basically just drive straight to, you know, like you can just drive straight there.
Like there's no defense, there's no mountain regions or anything.
But my problem with that is that, like, so.
I want to invade your country so it's a buffer zone between us.
That's ridiculous.
What are you doing?
You don't even invade my country because I'm a buffer zone.
That's your argument?
Well, NATO's too close to us.
Yes, but NATO's not invading.
Well, we feel threatened.
I'm sorry about that, but maybe you feel threatened because you're invading other countries.
It doesn't make sense.
All these countries are ridiculous.
The same thing with Xi Jinping.
Well, we do have them surrounded.
We literally have them completely surrounded with NATO.
We have launch pads in every single one of those countries.
I agree, but do you see the United States invading?
Russia?
They're not.
I'm saying if he just keeps going.
Are they creating a reason right now to invade Russia?
The Russians invaded another country.
Like if they invaded that country, if they took Ukraine, they took Ukraine.
Do you think that.
Who took Ukraine?
Russia?
If Russia took Ukraine, do you think that in.
Do you think he would stop there?
Or do you think in two years he'd take something else?
He would probably take something else.
Yeah, I think he'd just keep going because that's what bullies do.
Like, you know, and Russians really only respect strength.
Like, I mean, that's just the bottom line.
They only, same thing with the Chinese, they only respect strength.
And they think Americans, you know, I just don't think they have any respect for Americans.
They just think we're weak.
They don't think we have the stomach for war.
That's what the Japanese did.
We don't.
Well, sometimes, like, look at the Japanese.
The Japanese in World War II thought, look, here's the problem.
They were arguing over oil, well, you know, gas and oil.
So they were arguing over oil with the United States.
And the United States had embargoed them.
Japanese came and they were arguing.
They realized they weren't getting anywhere because they had invaded China.
So they thought, here's what we're going to do.
We're going to, if we can take out the Pacific fleet from the United States, so we're going to go into Hawaii, Pearl Harbor, take out their entire fleet if we can.
They're going to have such a disastrous defeat in Pearl Harbor, they'll negotiate.
That's not what happened at all.
No, the opposite happened.
Right.
That's like Osama bin Laden saying, thinking, if I can crash the towers, then the United States will pull back.
They'll say, hey, we don't have the stomach for this and pull back.
But that's not what happens.
Like the United States, we get nuts and then we overreact.
Like now we're invading two or three countries.
Everybody.
Yeah.
So I think that's.
Don't you think it's crazy, though, that the politicians and the government will spend trillions of dollars to protect the freedom of other countries, but we can't pay.
Elementary school teachers more than $20,000 a year.
You've got veterans that are sleeping on the streets.
You're not funding the VA.
You don't get to vote on what the tax dollars are spent on.
We don't get to vote.
Okay, every single American, you're going to pay $1,000 to fund this war.
We don't get to choose any of that shit.
They fucking do it.
Yeah.
I mean, I don't know.
I think the problem is, I think that if the American public had the ability to help dictate what money was spent on, one, it'd be spent.
Probably a lot better.
But two, we probably wouldn't have half the stuff we have because.
Like what?
Well, I think like our infrastructure.
Like infrastructure.
Yeah, like roads.
Like, there's tons, you know, roads.
There's.
Our roads and airports are dog shit compared to other countries.
Even Trump said that.
I understand that.
Well, so did Obama.
Obama was like, this is, you know, like, it's bad.
What I'm saying is, is that you have to say, okay, there are certain projects that you have to be funded, right?
Like, we're going to spend whatever, you know, half a billion dollars to look into building this sub.
And they look into it and they do all this research and they build it and it doesn't work out and they cancel the policy.
Like, they cancel the project and the subs.
Cut up and sold for scrap.
And people would be going nuts.
But the truth is, those are building blocks, like dumping a bunch of money into NASA, like spending all this money in NASA.
Why?
So that we can go to the moon, which didn't do really any good other than to say, hey, look, we're better than the Soviets at this.
So people would say, you guys spent like $3 trillion over the course of five years.
That's insane.
That was back in the 70s.
That's insane.
But I kind of feel like those are important programs because we got a bunch of stuff out of it.
It helped invent.
Advance a lot.
It helped advance plastics, rubbers.
It helped advance, you know, what is it?
We got opticals.
We got suffer cameras for, what do you call it?
Contact lenses.
You got computer chips.
Like it forced them to come up with all of these inventions that they never would have done.
You know, did we lose a bunch of money?
Yeah, but the government really shouldn't be in the business of making money.
Sometimes they have to spend money on stupid shit.
Unfortunately.
And I think that the public wouldn't understand that.
You know, that's my takeout.
I mean, keep in mind, too, the public knew how much money we were spending on the military.
They'd be like, no, this is ridiculous.
Let's just, we'll just hunker down.
But what happens when they start invading?
Then it's like, where's our military?
Well, you didn't want to spend any money on the military, remember?
You guys wanted free health care.
Well, I mean, we wanted to buy these new jets.
We're spending a trillion.
We're spending a trillion dollars a year on the military.
Yeah.
So let's just take a billion and spend it on something in the country.
Like, Let us get a little bit.
I'm not asking for a lot.
Hey, listen, I'm dying for free healthcare.
Like, I hear you.
I hear you.
But, you know, I also like the idea that I'm not really concerned about, you know, the Chinese invading.
You know, I'm not concerned.
What do you think about if China and Russia are teaming up right now?
What do you think?
I don't really think they are teaming up because it's working for China's benefit to.
They're buying cheap fuel.
And I also don't really think that China is planning on invading.
Um, Taiwan anytime soon, like, like they don't have to get across that strait, right?
That the waterway between the two.
Bustamante said he thinks that they're going to invade before the new presidential election.
No, like, they don't.
I don't, I don't, I can't, I can't believe that.
First of all, that you need specialty guys.
That guy's a geopolitical galaxy.
I hear you.
I hear you.
I mean, I'm that's, I know that's just stupid to go up against Bustamante, but I'm saying that I was, I've been watching a bunch of videos, and so that makes me an expert.
Like, he probably can call a general or something.
They'd be like, yeah, that's not happening.
No, he's ex CIA.
Right.
I know.
I know.
I'm the one that told you, you've got to interview this guy.
Who is he?
I don't know.
Two weeks later, bro, did you call him?
What?
Who is this again?
What does he want?
I don't know.
He literally bugged me to call Bustamante for like six months before I called him.
Now look at that guy.
Then he calls him.
Bustamante blows up.
He won't return a fucking text from me.
Wait till you see what.
You said you'd come on my program.
It's like, it's.
He's working on something big right now.
He's about to be worldwide.
Insane.
He's stepping on the backs of little people climbing the ladder.
I get it.
Oh, how dare you?
Probably won't talk to you.
He's not probably going to talk to you in six months.
He'll be like, Danny Jones.
God, that sounds familiar.
But I think, look, I think to move that many troops.
So petty.
I was going to say, like, you know, like you need specialty crafts to move that many people to get them on the beaches of Taiwan.
Like they don't have.
They have those.
They don't.
They don't have enough of them.
You've seen their new ships?
They don't have enough.
Listen, as of two weeks ago, I watched a couple of videos where they were like, they don't have them.
They can build them fairly quickly, but they just don't have enough to move that many people.
And they're going to lose a ton of people.
Going across that strait, it would be a bloodbath.
And here's the thing here's what I heard too.
And I heard this from.
Well, what if Russia helps them?
Russia can't drive to Kiev.
They can't drive there.
Like they ran out of fuel.
Logistically, they're not capable of even making a drive 150 miles outside their border.
They're damn sure not going to go all the way to China and be able to help them.
What are they going to help them with?
They don't have landing crafts, they got bombs.
I mean, they got some bombs.
Do they still even have any smart bombs left?
They got planes.
They got some planes.
Like, look, like we have, let's say, whatever, let's say 550 or however many, you know, F 22 Raptors, right?
And we have like F 35s.
And so we've got, whatever, let's say roughly 500 or 600 of them.
Like, they have like their version of that.
I forget the name of it.
It's really cool looking.
They've got like 80 or 100.
Mm hmm.
Like, that's it.
Remember, they kept saying, Why aren't they using these in Ukraine?
Their fear is they're going to get them shot down, that they're just not as effective as everybody says.
Like, nothing about the Russians worked out.
All of these things that the United States and everybody was saying how amazing the Russians were and how advanced their military was.
Like, look what happened, bro.
They got more nukes.
Thank God they haven't used a fucking nuke yet.
That's if they even take off.
Like, who knows?
Bro, come on.
I'm serious.
Their trucks are breaking down.
Their tires, they don't rotate their tires on their trucks.
Half the fucking tires were falling off.
They couldn't even drive their trucks.
Like, they're not taking care of anything.
Right now, they're doing.
You really think that their nukes probably don't work?
You think there's a chance that they're nukes?
Of course, they're 30, 40 years old, 50 years old.
This is 30, 40, 50 year old technology that's been sitting in a silo.
Do you think they're keeping.
They haven't been doing tests, though.
That's what I'm saying.
Because they don't even take their trucks and rotate the tires.
Like, you're giving money to generals that are underpaid that are using it to spend it on other things.
Putin thinks, oh, all of our guys have night goggles and body armor.
No, they don't.
I understand.
No, no, they have to.
We gave them money for that.
Yeah, they bought some of them.
Some of the special troops might have them, but the bulk of these guys are using walkie talkies from Radio Shack.
You've seen that.
Why?
They should have crushed Ukraine.
They should have crushed them.
They didn't.
What happened?
Your force is 10 times as big.
The country borders your country.
You should have driven straight into the capital and crushed them, and you didn't.
Like, that's not a solid ally.
Like, that's not.
How do they.
You know, and as far as missiles, like, China doesn't need Russian missiles.
China has a whole.
They have a whole sector of their army just dedicated to missiles.
Like, we have like the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines.
They've got another one which is just a missile division.
Interesting.
It's huge.
I mean, it's.
And that's like.
Because they're going to, well, probably bomb the shit out of Taiwan if they can't take it.
Really, I mean, obviously they can bomb just the beaches and strategically.
But I don't know.
I just don't see them.
I don't see them invading because I just think that there will be a huge embargo on everything Chinese and the Chinese will be massively starving to death in six months to a year.
You know, the U.S. is already doing these war game simulations.
Right.
Where all the people in the military and the government play this game where they all play characters in this fictional war scenario between.
Taiwan and China, where China's invading Taiwan.
And they're basically creating this science fiction scenario on what do we do?
You people play China, you people play Taiwan, and we're going to play the US.
Okay, do what you do to invade.
And we're going to try to see if we can figure out the right move and see what happens.
And they're doing these crazy simulations.
Marketing and Bud Light00:05:25
And almost, and that was, there was a think tank in Washington, D.C., and this was like three months ago.
They did a bunch of simulations and they said, Taiwan.
If Taiwan can survive for three days on their own, which is long enough for us to move like battleships and get there to help them, if we come to their aid, then they can prop, there's like an 80% chance that they can stay off an invasion.
But that's if the United States helps.
If the United States doesn't help, then ultimately they fall with, I think they said three months.
I think they said they can't last more than, was it 60 or 90 days without the United States' help?
And with the United States' help, there was like an 80% chance, I forget what the chance was.
But they had to be able to hold their own for like three days because for us to, you know, you got to load up the ships, you got to get there.
Have you ever seen the, there's a graphic where it shows all the military bases the U.S. owns around the world?
Oh, they're everywhere.
And you compare it to China, even with the fucking, what's their, what's their thing they have?
The road, what's it called?
The Belt and Road.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
The China's Belt and Road Initiative where they have like all these airports and factories and all this thing, all these things all around the world.
But if you look up the U.S.'s base, it's like, 10 times that everywhere.
It's insane.
Yeah.
But I mean, that's also part of that, you know, trillion dollars that we're spending to maintain all this tax money and pay all of that.
And the other thing, how you feel now?
The other thing is, you got to think, like, how far does that trillion dollars go compared to the CCP spending?
Like, they're not paying, they're not paying $10 for a light bulb.
You know, they're paying a few cents for a light bulb.
Like, you know, our money doesn't go as far as theirs.
So they are spending a lot of money.
They do have a ton of.
Troops, a ton of people.
I saw something recently where the U.S. Army is having trouble recruiting people.
Yeah.
Who wants to recruit?
They made a video.
I saw this video on YouTube.
I forget who posted it.
But it was, I think it was actually on Fox News posted on YouTube where the U.S. Army posted a video of a trans guy dressed like a woman doing some sort of song and dance for the U.S. Army, trying to recruit people, young people, to join the army.
So sad, bro.
I was like, those aren't the people you want to recruit to the U.S. Army.
You should have like Matt Cox shooting up some tests at the gym, jacking some steel.
Those are the guys you want.
I was going to say, that's like the Bud Light campaign.
Let's alienate everybody that drinks our beer.
Right.
That's what we're thinking.
And then her explanation, the head of marketing, you know, it's been a bratty kind of a.
or not sorority, a frat boy, immature humor.
Like, these are the people that buy your beer.
Like, what are you doing?
Did you see that video of her?
No.
Oh my God.
Their head of marketing is a female, and she.
Yeah, I saw a picture of her.
I can see a video.
Yeah, she came up with the campaign, and then she was explaining, she was doubling down on it when it started going bad, saying, you know, well, we needed to be more inclusive.
The brand is in decline.
We need to be more inclusive.
Well, there's inclusive, and then there's alienating.
And what you did was you included less than 1% of society, and you excluded 100% of your.
Of the people that currently buy your brand.
Right, right, right.
And you insult them.
And then you go on and insult them.
They're like fraternity boys, immature, you know, bratty.
It's like, what are you doing?
That's your customer.
Yeah, that's your customer.
Like, don't insult your customer.
I mean, I'm not a marketing genius, but I'm pretty sure that you don't insult people that are buying your brand.
I understand you want more.
I get it.
I love what Kirill said about it.
You remember what he said in that comment?
He's like, beer fucking sucks.
It's like drinking bread.
Like, you know, they're selling it like Costco now for like a case of beer for like $1.25 or $1.30.
Like, it's insane.
I hate beer.
They're desperately trying to, you know, they're desperately trying to get rid of that beer now.
Like, it's piled up.
Get out of Costco.
Like, there's like empty, like all the other beers are empty.
Like, Coors and all these other ones, like, the shelves are empty with that.
And there's all the Bud Light brands are still there.
I also heard Costco's got their own brand of golf balls now.
Multiple people have told me this.
Yeah, and they're selling them for like super cheap.
They've been doing that.
Have they?
So, They ripped off the Pro V1X and they had to change their golf ball because it was basically the same exact one as the Titleist.
So Tyler.
It was like a quarter of the price.
Lexi's brother Tyler was just saying that he was like trying to get up there.
He wanted Lexi to go up there and get them.
And she went up there to go get some balls.
And I'm like, shit, for that cheap?
I'm like, hell yeah, get me like three boxes of them.
Yeah.
And they were sold out.
The guy at Costco's like, yeah, they come in and they're off the shelf the same day.
Yeah.
That's Kirkland's.
And apparently Costco's trying to come up with like a bunch of golf shit.
They're going to start making clubs and shit.
They sell clubs already.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
Costco brand?
No.
I forget what brand they sell.
I want to get a Costco set of clubs.
Or maybe it's not Costco.
Maybe it's Sam's.
I think it's Costco.
Fighting Real Problems00:03:14
I don't know.
Anyway, they do.
Yeah, they have the same ones.
Beer?
Oh, yeah, the beer.
I think that was over.
Yeah, this is.
A dollar?
You said, well, how much?
It was like $1.75 or $1.25.
Like it was super.
I just remember thinking.
You can pass up on that, dude.
I just remember thinking, my God.
And the guy was like, they're practically giving it away because they had just.
It was just stacked up.
Isn't it so weird that we're the only.
Aren't we the only country that like has all this infighting about.
Like people trying to be different genders or like trying to train, like, because even like, because when you even talk to people in Europe, like people in France or Germany or like some of these like left leaning sort of like semi socialist countries, right?
They're not super conservative, right?
They're kind of liberal and they're a lot of young people, they just look at it and they laugh.
They're like, it's so weird what's going on in the US.
When you hear people's perspectives who aren't in the US, especially, it's like they're like, it's.
I don't know.
It's not going on in any other countries.
I mean, definitely not places like Russia, obviously, because they're like, they're a war torn country that's been, you know, through crazy conflict.
They have real things to worry about.
Exactly.
It's like, it's so.
It's funny how it's.
If there was a war right now, like a major war, like a serious war, not like we're sending off our current existing troops to go fight some war that doesn't really affect the United States.
I mean, if the continental United States actually got invaded.
Like if suddenly, yeah, exactly.
Like all that shit would be out the window.
All of it.
My fear is that the.
That the youth, these are the people that would have to help fight that war.
My God.
Could you imagine if 19, 20, 22 year old kids had to help fight a war right now?
The kids that are being raised, like, it's really.
Well, isn't it like they need their driver's licenses?
Isn't it the same thing as what happens to late stage empires?
Like what happened in Rome?
Like, collapse.
They're going to have to wait.
Exactly.
Like, shit starts happening.
Like, they start looking for more things to battle against, or they start looking when there's no real.
External threats, they start like eating themselves from the inside and looking for more problems.
I mean, I, I, I, that's kind of what I feel like.
Like, you don't have real problems in your life.
So you're manufacturing these issues that I have to call you he, she, or I have to, or, you know, that you, I, you want me to acknowledge that you're, you know, whatever binary or whatever the hell that is.
And, you know, it's like, like these are what you're arguing over.
Like, and they, and it's like, it's, Ties into media and politics and people they love it.
People politicize it for votes.
People like AOC, they just fucking amplify it just so they can get more people to follow them and vote for them.
And like, yeah, whatever happened to her?
She's still out there chirping.
The Republicans, she's off all her committees.
She's like, is she?
She went nuts when they started pulling her off of a bunch of committees.
She was just talking about some guy that happened in some guy in New York, I guess, got killed.
There was like a there was like some homeless guy on a train in New York.
And he was like threatening a bunch of people, and then some like Marine, I guess, put him in a chokehold and killed him by accident.
Civilization Type One00:07:14
Okay.
And, uh, and I guess he didn't get charged with murder.
He was, it was a homicide, but I guess like there were other people trying to restrain this guy who was going crazy.
Right.
The guy put him in a chokehold and the guy suffocated.
He died.
Right.
And, um, so there's people rioting.
There's people in the streets protesting about this, like saying that that guy, that Marine, should have gotten put in prison for murder.
And AOC is like out there tweeting, like, oh, this guy's a fucking murderer.
Of course, of course she is.
Like, you never hear anything about the, Transgender that ended up going in and killing all those kids, um, you know, a month ago.
Oh, yeah, you don't hear anything about that.
Yeah, that was everywhere when it happened, wasn't it?
It was for like, well, we forgot about it already.
Yeah, they already gone already.
Yeah, like if that had just been a regular white kid, we'd be hearing about it right now.
You'd still be hearing it, but you couldn't hear anything else about it, bro.
That was a terrifying video.
Did you watch the video of that?
The like the cops video footage from this?
Oh, yeah, going in, going in, they're walking through the classrooms like these little baby chairs, like these little kids sit on, and they're like running through, like clearing it.
Oh, my god, just.
Just the mental cases that are out there.
When do we become a type two or a type one?
We're a type zero right now.
When do we become a type one civilization?
I don't even know what that means.
Yeah, what is that?
Type one civilization.
You have to stop interviewing all these smart people.
I can't come.
I haven't interviewed these smart people.
Type one civilization is when we become a global species or we start thinking of ourselves as earthlings, not just Americans, Russians, Chinese, and we stop becoming these territorial apes bombing each other and trying to invade and take more territory.
I think we got to get to another planet.
Create a colony on another planet.
Maybe that'd help.
Yeah, that would probably help, huh?
Yeah.
Elon, no, because it would still be us, though.
It would still be us.
Yeah, but then it's a whole planet of us.
Yeah, but then you're saying you've got to.
So what are you saying?
Because I'm saying, like, progress.
Like, we progress.
You're saying this Earth be a type one.
Yeah, when will this Earth become type one?
Because the only way.
I mean, to do that, I think.
Would you have to have a one world government?
A type one civilization.
Yes, you would.
A type one civilization is able to access all the energy available on its planet and store it.
For consumption.
A type two civilization can directly consume the energy of a star like the sun.
Finally, a type three civilization is able to capture all the energy emitted by the gas.
Well, we don't have to worry about that yet.
That's way deeper than I even understand.
We ain't even talking about people.
No, so type one, right.
But type one is like we're already sort of on our way to type one, right?
Like we have the.
Like we're regressing.
We're becoming more global in a sense, like we have the internet, right?
We're all connected to the World Wide Web.
So that's like.
Not all of us.
It's a slow step.
Some countries aren't.
Some countries aren't.
That phrased energy specifically, though.
Yeah.
Yeah, they were talking about like.
So, yeah, so you're using like a diaphragm.
The resources.
A dice and fear.
So when you start becoming like type two civilization, then you can like travel throughout the universe.
Like, right?
Obviously, that means you get off the planet and you can move interstellarly, like between stars, like between our.
Well, we went to a moon.
I'm a fraudster.
Between.
Yeah, bro.
Haven't you had some scientists?
Like, is this a question?
I'm not.
I'm really, honestly, not even really versed enough to.
Talk about half the stuff we've already talked about.
You can't take anything we've said so far for truth.
Exactly.
Like, I'm not.
That's why I'm interested because you have an outside perspective.
I'm wondering, like, I've been thinking about it.
Like, the type zero, like right now, we're type zero.
We're fucking monkeys with bombs.
That's basically all we are.
Just trying to make money.
Like, everything, everyone who has any sort of power or money, all they do is just try to get more and they try to take it from other people.
It's the basics of what you did, right?
You fucking found a way to exploit a system and you fucking kept gaming it and gaming it and gaming it until you eventually got caught and couldn't do it anymore.
That's like what we're doing.
We're not looking out for our own species.
We're not trying to better ourselves as a species.
Like Elon is.
Do you?
I mean, yeah, he's dumping a ton of money into a venture that honestly, is he ever really going to get that money back to go to Mars for what reason?
Yeah.
To build a colony.
Why?
Because I think we should be an interplanetary.
Well, he's getting it from all the money.
He's getting paid by the government to do all this stuff, right?
Yeah.
No.
Well, some of it.
Some of it.
It's not like he's using his own money.
He's getting a lot of it.
He is using his own money.
It's funny, too, because.
Not for SpaceX, though.
He's got a lot of people.
Like, did you watch that documentary about him on Netflix?
Yeah.
He has a lot of.
He's getting recouped for a lot of money, right?
Yeah.
For, you know, doing things like, you know, bringing up satellites and things like that.
But is he making back all.
All of his money, and who knows if he would or not.
Look at what's his name, Bezos.
Like, Bezos is not getting any of the contracts, right?
Like, he goes up against Elon, loses, loses, loses, but he keeps dumping money into it because, of course, he's one of the richest men in the world, so he can.
Like, to me, it's like if I had that kind of money where I'm not gonna run out of it, I would probably do something absolutely ridiculous like that.
Like, I'm not gonna run out of money.
Let's see if we could.
Well, I pretty much got everything.
I mean, Elon's got so much money that he doesn't even care anymore, like, he's sleeping on people's.
Couches and sleeping in, like, nothing matters anymore.
Yeah, exactly.
Like, hey, let's drop one of these little rooms that I'm building here, these little cubicle things, and drop it.
And what are those things that you know I'm talking about?
They bring them in on a yeah, yeah, yeah.
But, like, what are they called?
They're called tiny houses, tiny houses.
Yeah, they're kind of like tiny, they are tiny houses.
Yeah, so he's like, he's got one of those so he can sleep there.
Like, he doesn't really, he owns a couple houses, didn't sleep in prefabricated homes, right?
Like, he trailers, you've seen them, like, he's just a mess.
They're built in factories, and there's dropped there.
And then you've got Jeff Bezos, who.
Has got like five yachts.
Yachting around town.
How about him getting all buff?
He's all jacked now.
He's running around with like 21 year olds on his yacht.
He's all zipped up.
You know what's so funny?
It's so funny his transition from fucking nerd to like billionaire playboy.
Did you ever see the interviews when he first started?
Oh, he's a total geek, bro.
Same with Elon, too.
You see like his early.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
He was bald.
Now he's got a full fucking head of hair.
Hey, I heard you just did a deal with some Turkish hair loss company.
No, I didn't do it.
You need to hook me up, bro.
My corners are getting.
Yikes.
They have a clinic in Mexico, so you don't even have to go to Turkey.
Ooh, really?
Yeah.
But I'm really good.
It's not FDA regulated, so it's probably good.
It's just surgery.
It's the same surgery they do here.
Oh, is it the same shit?
Yeah.
Oh, then why do you have to go to Mexico?
No, because it's cheaper.
Cheaper.
Super cheaper.
Like the guy, why would he come here?
Why do you go to Mexico for everything?
Why would he come here and compete with American doctors who are doing the same thing?
He can go to Mexico.
I want the guy who did your hair.
I want that guy.
Just to fill in the corners, like maybe a quarter inch.
I don't know that guy.
Cheaper Medical Care00:11:17
I want one more surgery.
Really?
Oh, we had a talk and everything.
But the problem is, in the end, I'm not going to.
Can we start a GoFundMe?
In the end, I'm going to have to come up with, you know, you got to come up with a few grand.
I have to explain to my probation officer that I'm going to get a hair, you know, hair grafts.
He's going to be like, yeah, couldn't you maybe throw that towards your restitution?
How can we scam your insurance company into paying for your hair?
I mean, health insurance companies are the biggest fucking scam artists in the world.
We got to be able to get them back somehow.
I don't have health insurance.
Oh, you don't?
No.
That's sad.
I know.
What if something happens?
Yeah.
I ain't got health insurance.
I got health insurance.
You can't get it.
They pieced you back together like an old car.
They rebuilt you.
And every time I hear about all this stuff that was titanium, buddy.
He's like the scarecrow.
You look fine, though.
You walk fine.
I wouldn't think you were in all the accidents and your back.
Oh, my God.
He's fucked up.
The surgery made it better, man.
But you seem fine.
You don't sit weird or hunch or do that.
I got a weird walk.
Do you?
Yeah.
My back's fucked up.
Well, you seem fine.
But my equilibrium's like fucked up ever since I've been here.
Did we talk about last time you were here?
Did we talk about your heart rate?
I don't know.
Yeah, I think we did.
What's wrong with your equilibrium?
I don't know.
It's all fucked up since some accidents and shit.
Really?
I get like that.
You ever get that ringing sound in your ears?
Oh, yeah.
If I drink like three cups of coffee, I get it a lot.
I have it all the time.
Yeah, I get it probably at least once a day.
Really?
I get it.
Where it just goes, it goes like full fucking world's tuned out.
Oh, that loud?
Yeah.
Oh shit.
I go totally deaf.
I have like mild tinnitus.
But it's only for like 10 seconds.
It like fades in and fades out.
I got my blood work done.
You might be getting directed energy.
You might be like targeted by the CIA.
Bro, I had a guy here.
Billy Carson said it's aliens.
Talking to me.
Oh God.
Listen, I got my blood work done the other day.
Oh yeah.
Let me tell you what's your test levels?
They were everything was like they give you a range between, you know, your whatever is between, should be between 200 and.
And 250, right?
Or whatever.
For what?
I'm saying in general.
This should be between 1,200 and 1,500.
And mine would be like 1,312.
This should be between 300 and 375.
And mine's like 340.
You're right in a dead center.
I'm almost always right in the middle.
And then you got to testosterone.
And it was.
What's the range?
It's 200 to like 650 or something.
It's 250 to 1,100.
Okay.
My mind's like 1560.
Oh, nice.
And I was like, You're pinned.
Wow.
And I called Ryan Root, and he's like, That's fine.
He's like, Yeah, they don't care.
He goes, It's good, bro.
It's good.
You feel good, right?
I feel great.
Yeah, that's good.
Rock hard, baby.
How's your libido?
Yeah, it's, uh, yeah.
I'm, but I'm hungry all the time.
What's your dose?
I don't even know because Jess gives it to me.
You don't know how many milligrams you're taking?
No.
How often do you take it?
How often do you shoot?
Uh, twice, twice a week.
Twice a week.
But listen, I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm strong.
God, I want to get back on it so bad.
Like, I'm, I'm like, like, I can do, I can do like 30 dips.
I do like four or five sets of 30 dips.
I do, wow, pull ups.
I do four or five sets of 30?
Like, I've never been able to do pull ups.
Like, I do pull ups behind my head.
I can do, I mean, like this?
Yeah.
Oh, easy.
Easy.
Wow.
But I don't mean like one.
I mean, we're talking about the.
Look at him.
How many pull ups can you do, Shane?
Oh, my shoulder would pop out, bro.
One pull up can't do.
One pull up.
One pull up's too long.
Fucking shoulder out.
Fuck, dude.
Told you.
I mean, I could do other shit.
I just can't do shoulder shit.
Oh, listen.
I'm the thing I could never do.
Like, I've never been able to do, like, a, you know, pull up like.
Yeah.
I need shoulder surgery bad.
Mm hmm.
He needs to get the stem cells.
I got to go to Mexico.
He needs the stemmies.
I need stemmed up.
You don't know stem cells?
Is that illegal?
No.
Stem cells?
No.
It might not be federally FDA approved.
It might not be FDA.
I feel like there's lots of places.
Rogan gets them all the time, so it's got to be all right.
Yeah, but I think he went to Colombia.
No, they go over there.
Medellin.
Medellin.
No, the guy on his podcast said they go right over the border in California, right down there.
Oh, Tijuana.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
There's one in Tijuana.
They go right to Tijuana.
They fucking.
Put you up in a five star hotel, juice you up.
They got saunas, they got hyperbaric oxygen chambers, they got a spa there.
Then you just drive right back over the border.
Oh, yeah, it's full treatment.
It's like eight grand for the week.
They give you multiple sessions.
Like you go in there on a Monday.
Can we start a GoFundMe for that?
Bro, you already got the GoFundMe.
Just ask the boss man.
Yeah, they ain't funded that.
I don't have to feel like I want to do anything.
Are you just on the test or what else?
No, I also take an estrogen blocker.
Oh, you take that thing too?
Yeah.
Only because, like, so you did your blood work and your estrogen was too high.
No, no, it's just because when I started taking the test, like, my one of my oh, your gyno, yeah, my one well, and you know, keep in mind too, like, they're gone, like, the glands are gone.
Oh, you got them removed, yeah, really?
I had two surgeries.
One, they cut them in half, it started growing back.
When, oh, this is when I was younger, 20, 20 something.
Oh, yeah, because you said you were taking that shit when you were young, right?
So then they removed them, so then they just removed them, but still, something must still be in there because I started getting this a little bit of a pain.
In one of my breasts, right?
I hate to say breast because it doesn't sound massive.
But it just started kind of hurting a little bit, right?
Like I was like, that fucking hurts.
I heard.
So I talked to Ryan and we ended up getting, he said, look, just take like this as you need it.
Like take like half a tablet every time.
So I took half a tablet, boom, it's gone.
And other than that, I feel great.
Other than the fact that I'm hungry all the time.
But you look phenomenal.
You don't look fat.
You look cut.
The only reason I Feel fat in here like a fucking bulldog, like a little bulldog, dude.
I, you know, the only reason I feel fat because I weigh like 180 pounds, and I'm like, This is you weigh 180?
Damn, yeah, you weigh the same.
Yeah, I weigh like a little over 180.
Like, I was typically like, I want to be like 170, I feel like I need to lose like 10 pounds.
How long should I wait till I go back, till I go on the?
I don't know why you got off it.
Like, what was the reason I was, he never does anything more than like one week.
I did it, I did it for a month, and I felt just like the best way I can describe it is I felt.
Overstimulated all the time.
Well, then take a lower dose.
I did.
I fucking dosed down.
I dosed down and then I started doing it.
Water it down.
I started doing the injections every other day.
Just like I split it into threes, right?
So I did it three times a week.
And I still felt like I felt a little bit less overstimulated.
But then look, so I did my blood work pre doing the testosterone.
Were you working out?
Yeah, I was always working out.
Okay.
So I did my blood work pre testosterone, and my test level was like 730.
Right, you were right in the middle.
So I got in the middle of the month when I was doing the testosterone.
I did my blood work again and it was like 6 40.
What?
Why would that be?
I stopped, right?
I stopped the end of November.
Makes sense.
I know.
I stopped the end of November.
Multi test.
And then I got my blood work done again, end of January.
I'm back up to 7 50.
How did you never get out of the same place everybody goes, bro?
How did you go into that lady with those fake machines?
No.
What's her name?
Literally, the blood work I got, I got the first.
They were just typing them up.
I got literally like.
The most comprehensive blood panel that money can buy.
The lady had the needle in my arm and they fill up those vials.
She had like a fucking grocery bag full of those.
They were falling on the ground everywhere.
I'm like helping her pick them up.
She had like 30 of them.
It was insane.
They did like, they tested everything.
Like literally everything you could possibly have.
And I don't know.
For some reason it was lower.
I wish I had money to burn.
I'm like, what's the cheapest one?
I need the testosterone.
Can I just fit that?
No, sorry.
It's a whole panel.
Okay.
Well, that's all I need though.
Yeah.
Like, Listen, I went.
I might have had like, there's different esters.
Like, there's Scipionate, Enanthate.
There's like three different esters you can take.
One that the Scipionate lasts the longest.
That's what I'm taking.
Enanthate has a shorter half life.
So, I don't know.
I got to, I got, I don't know.
I want to try it again, but I want to figure out.
I'm like at 750 right now.
So, I don't want to, like, there's really no need.
I mean, I'm.
Yeah, that's where you're basically supposed to be.
Yeah.
All right.
Like, that's what I was like.
Probably where I am normally.
I mean, this thing is off the charts.
I don't know what's happening.
But when I first did it, like, the fucking red line, the first injection I did.
Feel bad for her sometimes.
The first injection I did, I was like, Not already.
She's like, What?
Oh, you're trying enough already.
I'm hunting down, like, you know, she's all like, Hey, hey, hey, horned up bulldog.
She's walking around with one of those five gallon paint sticks, you know, pow, stop it, sit.
Matt's humping legs in the kitchen.
That's hilarious.
But yeah, no, that's why I got off.
But I want to try it again.
I'm like, I really want to try it again.
So I think I'm going to try it again.
You know what's funny?
I wonder what would happen to Boziak.
Because he's super hypersensitive to any type of drug.
I am too.
You look at him, you'd think he takes drugs.
Listen, he doesn't drink.
He doesn't take drugs.
He can't drink coffee.
He can't take aspirin.
He ate two fucking 250 milligram gummies the first time he came in here.
No, weed's a different story.
Now, weed's different.
He's big on weed.
He does a lot of weed.
He has no problem with weed, but he has a major problem with any kind of medication, like anything.
I'm like that too.
So, yeah, he couldn't take anything.
It's called a hyper responder.
It's horrible.
Like, it's horrible.
Because you can't take anything for anything.
But it's good if you're addicted to pills because then you save money.
Yeah, I guess so.
But if you need medication, it's not good.
Nothing.
He said if you're addicted to pills, it's good because, you know, you save money because you can't take them.
It's like, I don't know where that came from.
But I mean, what if you need medication?
You can't take it.
Yeah, you just take a smaller dose.
You just break the thing into quarters.
He does.
He takes, like, he'll take little, like, he'll take, he'll have, like, a pull of his back or something.
And he's, and he's like, he takes ibuprofen and he gets all, like, feels sick.
Really?
Yeah.
It's like, it's ibuprofen.
He's like, I brought, I'm like, how much did you take?
He's like, I broke a pill in half.
He's like, what do you mean?
Right.
Like, I barely took any of it.
And I'm like, well, that's not even going to do anything.
Fuck, I got a little pain.
I'm popping a thousand ibuprofen.
Oh, a thousand milligrams.
Let me tell you my age.
I wake up.
That's just part of my routine.
I woke up to take fucking three of it, three, 200 milligrams.
This guy got COVID.
He's fucking chewing up Vicodin, bro.
Medication and Doses00:04:19
That'll help, right?
It worked.
Two days later, I was straight.
That's the secret, man.
I slept it off.
Fuck ivermectin, bro.
It's the Vicodin.
My grandma came over, brought over 800 milligrams of ibuprofen, some Vicodin, fucking COVID, some cough syrup.
I'm laying on the couch.
She brings over a Ziploc bag of pills and some cough syrup.
Here, Shane, take this.
I was straight two days later, slept it off, sweated out.
Fuck.
I had COVID again.
I've had it twice.
Really?
I've just had it three times.
Damn.
I got it when I went to PodFest.
We both got it.
Justin and I both got it.
Really?
PodFest geeks got me all shaking hands and, you know.
Oh, COVID, dog.
Yeah.
Did I tell you what happened?
I gave a speech.
Did I tell you about my speech?
No, I had to give a talk.
Basically, it was something like 60,000 subscribers in.
Two years or something.
I forget what the name of the speech was.
Like, how do you get, like, whatever, you know, like, and I basically got up and just said, look, you know, you have to, you know, I just gave like five tips, right?
Now, here's what happened, though.
So there's a room, and I remember thinking, like, these guys are going on this app and they're trying to get people to go to their little show, right?
I never did that.
I go to the show, I go to the thing, PodFest.
It's okay.
It was five days.
It honestly could have been two.
So you see everything the first day, and then maybe you want to loop around again.
But after that, So then they have these rooms that are broken up.
It is very professional.
Like it's a super cool kind of thing for two days.
So then they have breakout rooms where you go and you talk.
Sometimes they have big ones.
There's 500 people there.
Sometimes there's a small one.
There's 150 people.
So I'm thinking, nobody's going to be at my thing.
I never tried to promote it.
I never tried to do anything.
I just told the guy that runs the place, Chris, I told him, I'll do it.
He said, okay.
So I go to do it.
Chris Mosto?
Yeah, Chris Mosto, whatever his name is.
Yeah, Chris K.
So I go.
And I'm also on a panel.
So I go and I get there and I'm like, like this place, like it's packed.
The room is packed.
And somebody goes and they do a talk.
And that's great.
They do their talk.
More people are kind of coming in.
The place is packed.
This guy does a talk and he sits down.
No big deal.
And then this other chick gets up and she does a talk.
And listen, like halfway through the talk, I remember looking over at Jess like, this is the worst chick to follow up.
This chick's been doing this for five years.
She's polished.
I mean, I was like, wow.
And Jess was like, yeah, she's good.
She's good.
And it was thanks for the support.
Right.
It was just like, wow.
So then she's done.
As soon as she's done, I'm thinking, okay, great.
So now I get up to do mine.
And she, as I'm getting up to do mine, and she says, okay, she's got the mic.
She kind of stops and she says, listen, if anybody else wants to talk about this or needs some help or needs this or needs this, blah, blah, blah, she said, I'll be out in the hallway.
Come on out in the hallway.
Half more than that, 90% of the room gets up and walks in the hallway.
There's like six guys left.
And then you went and did your stage show.
And then I went and did my thing.
So obviously I was fine because there was only a few people.
But I sat there and I thought, wow, like that, like I would never do that to somebody.
Yeah, that's kind of cool.
It was real, like I wanted to go to her and say, the fuck did you just do?
Yeah.
Did you see what just happened?
Like, did you see what you did?
Like, would you want that done to you?
Yeah, that was fucked up.
It was just such, you know, if it was anybody but me, like if I was in the crowd, like I probably would have been like, I would have laughed, like, oh my God, that was horrible.
But I was like, wow, well, I'm not nervous now.
Because there's nobody here, so she should have thanked her.
Yeah, there was so there's maybe whatever, let's say 15 or 20 people.
So I did my little speech, whatever it was fine.
Um, but yeah, I got sick like the next day when I got home.
I was all by the time we got home that night, I was feeling achy.
Yeah, the next day, super achy, and so was Jess.
We both super sick that night.
And I was supposed to go to Ian Bick, fly up to see to be interviewed by Ian Bick.
The Back and Forth00:06:39
Do you know who he is?
I think so.
I think you sent me something about him.
Yeah, I supposed to go up there, and I had to cancel the last minute.
And I still haven't really been able to go up there since then.
And so now when people say, hey, you should be on Matt Cox's podcast to Ian Bick, he says, fuck that guy.
He canceled on me.
Really?
And I'm like, he really says, fuck that guy?
No, he didn't really say fuck that guy.
No, he kind of almost does.
He basically says, screw that.
Man, the hell with that guy.
He canceled on me.
I had COVID.
Like, I had COVID.
I even texted him.
Did he get his flight reimbursed?
No, he said he just lost it.
And I told him, I said, Look, I'll pay for my own flight and fly up.
I get it.
And he came back and I told him, I said, Hey, quit telling people that I canceled on you.
I had COVID.
He's like, Yeah, I get it.
But you said you'd be up here within a month.
And it's been like two months.
And I haven't heard from you since.
Okay, granted, that's my fault.
But, you know, come on, bro.
Like, I'm going to get up there.
Give me a minute.
First of all, you invited me to fly up to your show.
Do you know how many needles I got to bring with me on the plane?
You invited me to fly up to your podcast, and you have like 3,000.
At that time, I think he had like 5,000 subscribers.
I think he's got like 30 or so.
He'll probably be at 100,000 before I'm at 100,000.
Like, he's, listen, he's booming.
People like him.
Bro, when is Tucker going to start a podcast on YouTube?
I don't think he can.
He can take it down.
He was immediately built for the internet, bro.
Have you watched his full send podcast?
No.
Oh my God.
It is so fucking hilarious, dude.
He is so funny when he's able to speak freely and he's not just like reading off a teleprompter.
I saw a video online where he was fishing in Central Park.
Central Tucker was?
Yeah.
In New York?
Yeah.
Really?
Yeah, some guy comes up and like he's like turns around.
The guy's like, oh, you're Tucker Carlson.
Are you supposed to be fishing?
He goes, yeah, you can fish.
And he's like, totally cool.
The guy starts talking.
The guy's like, no, don't you need a license?
He's like, no, people don't know that, but you don't need a license.
He goes, is a good fish any good?
He said, not really.
Yeah, he's a big hunter and fisher, and he likes to hunt and fish a lot.
But he likes to hunt.
He's like a big bird hunting guy.
Is he?
Yeah.
My God, he's already got 62,000 subscribers in the universe.
What are you benching?
How much do you bench?
No, we use.
You don't do bench?
Yeah, but it's on a machine.
Oh, you fucking pussy.
I don't actually use the bar.
How much do you in the machine?
It's like 250, 260.
It's almost the whole rack.
And I'm not doing, by the way, I'm not like barely going down.
Like I'm going deep all the way down, like all the way up.
Yeah, I don't do all that.
But yeah.
So, and I start at like 225.
I'll do like 225.
Then it goes like 245, then it goes like 255, and then it goes to like whatever 15 or 20 pounds.
The one where you sit up, the one where you're sitting up and you go like that, is that the one you're talking about?
I do a slight incline.
Incline.
Yeah.
So it's not quite, so I'm not laying flat.
I'm, you know.
Yeah, I like doing the incline too.
So, you know, that way you don't build like the bitch tits down there.
You build up the top.
No.
I mean, I do that.
I do flies on a machine.
You keep in mind I'm working out with Jess.
She's pretty jacked.
She is.
We do dips.
She's strong as fuck all.
She looks like it.
And the worst thing is, like, my upper body strength at least double everything she does.
And yet, when we wrestle, I can't pin her.
When we wrestle?
I can't.
Now I just don't even fuck with her anymore.
It's gotten to the point where it's so embarrassing.
I mean, it's embarrassing.
It's like literally, like, I don't understand.
And I'm sitting there going, I don't understand.
Like, I'm benching double what you're benching, more than double.
And I can't get you off of me.
And she's poor.
It's ridiculous.
She's got.
My wife's got retard strength.
She does.
She does.
I'm glad you whispered that.
Hopefully, the algorithm didn't hear it.
I'm sorry.
I hate to say that.
I mean, I know, I know what, but it is what it is.
Like, and I went to a school with kids with special needs.
Like, I know it's a serious thing.
It's real.
It's real.
We had a guy named Rodney who had Down syndrome.
Strong as fuck.
Yeah.
Where's Rodney?
I don't know.
He was scary, though.
He would chase you around.
Like Jono.
Yeah.
Yeah.
God, that is crazy how they are strong.
Yeah.
They are really fucking strong.
For no reason.
Yeah, it's ridiculous.
And Jess is like that.
She's strong.
Is it hot right here?
You okay?
I don't know.
I've drank two cups of coffee.
This is literally probably my fifth or sixth cup of coffee.
This is your first time in here since we got the new AC.
I'm actually kind of cold.
You know what's weird?
Are you?
Yeah.
We don't hear a lot of talk.
I'm doing a lot of talk.
We don't have that loud, that fan going anymore.
It's a lot quieter now.
And I think it's a lot cooler now.
This looks like a little draft right here.
You like that?
Yeah, that was the last time I saw it.
I'm getting ready to get a new studio.
Where?
Here or in someplace else?
Not in this building, but somewhere around here.
And then I'm going to get one in the.
Oh, really?
Big shot.
Yeah.
Big shot.
Yeah.
We're getting a big warehouse.
Really?
Fantasy Factory.
Fantasy Factory, bud.
On Indian Rocks Beach.
Seriously?
Mm hmm.
You know, why?
It bothers me when you see it happen.
Wait until you see it happen.
And I like that jealousy feeling.
How would you be jealous?
Because I feel like I'm above that.
But I'm not because I'm running my whole thing out of my living room.
I'm running this whole thing.
Listen, people show up.
It's good, though.
It's fine.
People show up and they're like, hey, what's.
They look around like.
So does Lex Friedman.
He does it in his fucking kitchen.
I know.
I know.
But, oh, you know who I had on the other day?
Brett Johnson.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
I had him on here a while ago.
Yeah.
This is the second time I've had him on.
Oh, really?
He's great.
Yeah, he is good.
Yeah.
We were both on the Secret Service's most wanted list.
Yeah.
We both go back and forth, back and forth.
Oh, I bet that's fascinating to hear you guys talk.
It's, it's, uh, hey, what's up with Rossini?
You told the story about him when he's, when is he getting out of prison?
He didn't, you asked me that the other day.
Yeah, but we didn't, we're on air now.
So, um, he, so I mean, literally, he should be in a halfway house right now.
Running from the Kitchen00:10:56
The problem is the halfway houses are packed.
And so he's, they've, there's just nowhere for him to go.
Like he should be home.
He should be in a halfway house or on an ankle monitor right now.
Like he's literally telling his case manager, like, Have me go.
I'll immediately go on a, you know, I'll immediately go home.
Like, my home's already been approved.
Like, I in he probably will not be in a halfway house for six months.
And even then, he may only get a month or two.
Yeah.
No, basically, he'd be out of prison.
Where is he going to move?
Where is he going to be?
The halfway house, like, his mom is somewhere up, I want to say, in the panhandle area.
But they tried to get him in a halfway house everywhere, like, like Ocala, Orlando, Tampa.
They're just all full.
Like, every place in Florida is full.
It's packed with people that did art acts and they're full.
Yeah.
Well, and the halfway houses, too.
That's so wild.
You know, but great guy.
I can't wait to listen.
Listen, Rossini, do you remember the other day when you, not the other day, it was probably a year or so ago, you had a guy sit down and start and was talking about the cartel.
You understand that Pete can tell you the origin of every single cartel, how they've turned the different factions, why they became different factions, the murders and double crosses.
He can tell you, it's insane how much he knows.
He could sit here.
For six hours straight and tell you just about everything.
How does he know about it?
He just, you know, he's got.
Watch Narcos?
Watch Narcos.
He's probably got 180 IQ.
Really?
Oh, it's insane.
It's insane.
Listen, when I was doing his story, this was the kind of stuff he would do.
It's funny, too, because as much as I despise Dev Rolli, he was super.
He was much like this.
Only Pete's likable.
And Pete would go, you know, I would say, okay, well, when did this happen?
And he'd go, oh, God, let me think.
That was a.
He'd say, okay, so.
It would have been that was that was Tuesday the 12th, and it'd go, What?
Yeah, June.
It was a Tuesday, it was on the 12th of June, you know, 1992.
And you'd be like, Why do you rain man like, how do you know that?
He'd go, Well, because I remember so and so's birthday was on this date, and I remember we went to this concert, and it was two days after that concert, and like he literally has this whole and he could do it all the time with everything.
And if you went back and double checked.
Damn, if he wasn't right.
Really?
It's bizarre.
And he'll keep in mind, too, he's from Brazil, right?
So he speaks Spanish, he speaks Portuguese.
So he'll, you know, listen, I can't say Spanish words.
Like he's Portuguese or French or anything.
His pronunciation is perfect.
He just, you know, he's one of those people that I talk to that I feel like, you know, you feel like you're drooling when you're talking to him.
You're like, God, like this is ridiculous.
And I feel like he's.
Patiently talking to me, like right, like he's like, he's like, he's just putting up with me.
Yes, he just has like an incredible sense of time where he can put time stamps on anything that happened on different things.
It's not just that, it's not just that.
Like, he'll talk to you about quantum physics and he'll remember names.
I can't remember names for anything.
He'll remember the names, the pronunciations, when the book came out.
How this book, it was, I remember he was, it was like 1100 pages and this and this and this.
And there was a chapter, I think it's chapter 13.
Chapter 13 was about, and you're like.
Are you insane?
He'll tell you.
Listen, I'm going to get him first.
I'm going to completely just spend like two weeks with him and get as much information out of him as possible.
And then you can have him on here.
He'll tell you about his case.
I want him on here with you.
I mean, that's fine.
But he'll tell you about his case.
It'll take eight hours.
He knows every single date, he has every single document.
It's insane.
It's three-parter.
It's insane.
He also is extremely wordy.
Like he has no concept.
He reads, what, one book a day in prison?
How many books does he read?
I don't know.
I don't know.
A lot.
And I mean, not normal books.
These are like typically, if I get a book, I can give it to four other inmates.
He gets a book and you might as well just throw it away.
Nobody else is reading that shit.
Like, Pete, it's a book on mathematics.
I know.
There's a whole chapter on the comma.
What?
Like, what do you, what?
Yeah, there's a whole, it's just, it's nuts.
So, is he autistic?
He is mildly, I always say he's got a touch of Asperger's syndrome.
And you don't notice, like, you notice it when you first meet him, but then as you get to know him, you don't really notice it.
But when somebody else comes over, you start to notice it.
Again, like with me, he talks to me, he looks me in the eye, he has we have conversations, we're open, he's very comfortable with me.
But somebody else comes over and he immediately, Hey, how you doing?
and takes like four steps back, like, and you're like, What's going on?
Like, you don't notice it because we hang out all the time, and then somebody else would come in and he'd do it, and I'd be like, Oh, why is he in prison again?
Short version, short version is uh, the the charge is basically conspiracy to murder two federal informants.
In his two FBI federal informants that were both murdered.
Then supposedly he ordered the murders, he ordered their murders and the disposal of their bodies.
And he'll tell you, look, yeah, I didn't order the murders, but I did dispose of the bodies.
He's like, but you know, I just killed you.
I just threw the bodies in the dumpster.
Exactly.
That's exactly what it was.
One of the bodies they found in the dumpster, the other one they didn't.
And he's like, you know, what I was going to do?
I came home, the guy's dead.
You can't just leave a body.
It was a meth lab.
I can't call the police.
The story was fucking crazy, dude.
It's nuts.
What's the name that you wrote?
Did you write a story about that?
Yeah.
What's the name of that story?
Devil Exposed.
Devil Exposed.
I actually wrote, I wrote, so I have an abridged version and then I have a full book.
The full book is basically, it's like a true crime book.
The abridged version is really more about the crux of the case, how they built the case against them.
And they're actually both really good.
The problem, like I said, that he has no concept of brevity at all.
He'll.
It'll take him two minutes to explain something that really would have taken about 20 seconds to explain.
He's just, he's very wordy.
He's very detail oriented.
He thinks everything is important in the story.
He can't cut to the chase.
So, but his research is fucking amazing.
The problem is you have to read 2,000 words to end up saying, okay, here's 2,000 words.
I'm going to use 200 of them.
And he's, oh, are you serious?
What about this?
What about that?
It's irrelevant to the story, Pete.
Oh, I'm like, I'm sorry.
I, you know, he's.
Gets all upset.
And then I'll tell him, I'll send him an email and I'll say, I'll be like, bro, thank you so much.
This was great.
It was really informative.
I chopped it down to two paragraphs and I'll say, you really need to work on not sending so much information.
You know damn well I don't need to know every single thing about that person to introduce them when they're only going to be in one scene.
So, what exactly is he helping you with in prison?
The book, the book, it's called, we call it The Company.
It's about the.
The chip heists, all those chip heists.
Yes.
He's doing the research.
And listen, from inside prison, so during the pandemic, they shut down the archives because these are old.
Like they're all archived, right?
Like there's tons of articles, but you can't get them on the internet.
They were back in the late 80s and 90s.
So, and then all, even a lot of the court documents are on the archives.
They're not updated on the system.
Like right now, something 10 years ago, you can go pull everything on my case on Pacer.
But this is back in the 80s and 90s.
These are.
This is a microfish.
Yeah.
So he, we couldn't get into the archives.
So Pete happened to be talking to his cousin who knew a girl that was actually dating a federal judge.
So he got to her, got to the federal judge, explained that he was doing research on this case and the archives was closed, but he really needed it.
The federal judge calls down the people from the archives and asks them to go and pull the file, and boom, we get a fucking chunk.
Of everything we want.
I end up having to pay for it.
I think I paid like whatever it was $600 or something for the research and everything to get the research.
So now he's got all the stuff and he researched everything, read all the trial transcripts, read everything, went through and highlighted it.
He ordered tons of newspaper articles on archives.
I end up having to join some archive system to pull articles and send those to him.
And then he just, he's a machine.
He reads it and comes up with the information that you need.
But it's a super interesting story.
Do you pay him?
No.
Wow.
I've offered to put money on his books, do this and that, but keep in mind he's got a mom.
It's Pete and his mom.
That's really, and then some cousins.
That's really all there is left.
Pete's dad died when he was in prison.
You know, and honestly, you know.
How long has he been in?
Oh, Jesus.
Almost over 25 years.
How old is he now?
He's exactly my age.
Wow.
We're both 53.
I think our birthdays are, I think his birthday is a few days before mine, maybe a week.
Wow.
Wow.
I want to say maybe he's June 5th or something.
I don't know.
I could look it up.
That's crazy, man.
Well, Matt Cox, it's been enlightening.
How long has this been?
Two and a half hours.
Oh, what is this?
4 30, 5 30.
Two and a half hours.
Yeah.
Wow.
Thanks again.
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