Julian Dorey and the host dissect the "deadliest conspiracy theory," tracing Vladimir Putin's 1999 rise to power via false-flag bombings in Moscow allegedly orchestrated by arms dealer Adnan Khashoggi. They analyze the 2001 attacks as a pretext for corrupt officials like Dick Cheney to establish a Deep State agenda, while debating the ethics of exposing secrets versus sacrificing civil liberties. The discussion critiques Western media bias regarding Ukraine compared to the Middle East and contrasts Putin's term-limit consolidation with U.S. political stagnation, ultimately suggesting that geopolitical conflicts are often viewed through biased lenses driven by racial proximity rather than objective truth. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, WAV2VEC2_ASR_BASE_960H, sat-12l-sm, script v26.04.01, and large-v3-turbo
Time
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How The Podcast Started00:05:45
Your podcast is dope.
The first time I learned about you, someone DM'd me and said, you got to check out Trendifier on YouTube and TikTok.
I saw your TikTok and it was like I was going down the rabbit hole of all your videos for like an hour, I felt like.
I appreciate that.
And it's funny.
The world works in weird ways because you, I think you followed me on Twitter, which was the funniest thing because I don't tell anyone about my Twitter.
That's the one social media like I don't talk about on the show.
No one has me there and you found me there and I noticed it and I'm like, wait a second.
I had just been told about your podcast about a month before.
My friend Mark asked me to check it out and I was like, this guy's fire.
Like this is a great podcast.
Like how the fuck do I not know this?
Like I pride myself on trying to know some of the great long form podcasts.
And so then I started, I think I watched the Roger Reeves one.
Is that his name?
The pilot.
And then I went back, I watched the Bustamante ones and it was so good.
But I was like, that's really weird that that, you know, We didn't know about each other and then we knew about each other and then someone said to like connect.
The community connected us, bro.
Very, very cool.
So thank you to whoever did that.
Hell yeah.
How did you get started doing your podcast?
What made you want to do that?
The thing is, it's fucking great.
I love some of your guests.
Thank you.
Thank you.
And I'm looking forward to you having Jim in here.
I think that would be great.
But yeah, so that's a little bit of a convoluted story.
I was on Wall Street.
So I came out of college and I worked in.
the private bank and Merrill Lynch.
And so my boss, who was there a long time before me, you know, he managed the wealth of very, very rich people.
So I think like the average net worth was like 80 million, something like that, 70, 80 million.
And we also did work with like companies.
So like public companies, we would do 10B5-1 plans.
Sometimes we do something really simple like a 401k.
It just gave you an excuse to know everyone there.
But I did that for a few years.
And the way that business works is you come out of college if you're lucky enough to get into a great situation like that and I was because me and my boss got tight before I before I got there You know you grind like a dog and then eventually you get the offer if you make it and then you make money and so I did that and I loved my team and everything really enjoyed working with them but You don't know anything about the world coming out of college, you know, and and I didn't in fairness to myself.
I didn't assume that I wasn't like oh I know how things work.
It was never like that But there was a part of you that's like, all right, well, I might know one or two things.
You get out, you're like, nah, I don't know a goddamn thing.
So I started to realize, like, kind of subconsciously at first and then eventually consciously, that, like, I wasn't into the work we did.
I just didn't like banking.
It's not me.
You know, picture me in a suit every day.
Wolf of Wall Street.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like, exactly.
Like, that's not what it is, number one.
It's not sexy like that, if that's what you want to call it.
And it's also, You know, it's an older school business.
There's certainly some good with it.
I will say the best part about my job, my favorite part that I did like, and it's actually what I owe understanding like a couple things about, is the fact that a big part of the job was going out and meeting people, knowing everyone, especially we were up in New York City.
So you're in the center of the world, right?
And my job was to go out and make friends with people of all walks of life who were in different industries doing different things.
So I had to learn like, oh, this guy talks to that guy because they do this thing.
And then this type of business works.
What are they working on over here?
And then you start to get a picture of like, oh, here's how some things actually work.
Then you do your research, the whole nine.
So I think that was really good.
And I liked that.
But I just didn't like the back end work.
It was very boring and regulated as hell.
That fucking sucked.
So.
So, you got to look at a lot of different types of businesses and like how different types of shit worked.
Yes, exactly.
That's cool.
I like to call that looking under a lot of skirts.
I'm going to use that.
That's pretty good.
I like that.
I like that, but that is precisely what it was.
But yeah, so I was doing that and I got to a point, as you were asking me, like how the podcast happened, I had started to open my horizons a little bit along the way.
And I started probably in like, 20s, late 2017, pretty early actually.
I started like having some side LLCs.
I do with people nothing crazy like not real companies, but stuff like we work on little projects and I started to realize, like you know, I had always been a more creative person.
Banking is not very creative in most ways.
Right, that was not my cup of tea, and so I was like more passionate about some of the little work I would do, you know, like writing stuff, coming up with things, thinking outside the box, And so I was thinking I wanted to go towards something like that.
And then it got to the point where I was going to get that offer.
And I did.
And my boss, again, to this day, very close with the guy, you know, I was like, holy shit.
If I say yes to this, I'm committing for the next five years minimum.
Now, hypothetically, I could have said yes, collected a paycheck for three months and bailed.
But like, that'd be a douchebag thing to do.
Like, I love this guy.
I'm not going to do that to him.
So he was like saying, like come in the inner sanctum pretty much.
That Weird Kobe Offer00:03:03
So I'm like, okay, I got to say no to this, which obviously I think, I think he might have seen it coming a little bit, but it was still very sad, obviously.
And it was kind of sad for both of us.
But this was later stages of 2019.
And so he said to me, he's like, all right, look, you know, you're still getting some of the salary from the company.
Chill out, you know, this is going to be an industry shift for you.
Didn't know what I was going to do yet.
He's like, Hang here.
You do good work on the back end.
You make your money to pay your bills and you figure it out and we'll get you on your way.
I'm like, great.
So I went into the process of doing that and probably, no, not probably.
It was January 26th.
It was the day Kobe died.
I remember that.
Oh, boy.
Yeah, it was like kind of a weird thing in life.
But I went to do a little media work for my friend Ty for his lacrosse company.
He just wanted me to go there and like, interview the founders afterwards, like pretty easy stuff.
And it was a weird day because Kobe died.
You know, that was like a I've never been affected by a celebrity death, like even Sunday, wasn't it yeah?
Yeah, it was like even like when Whitney Houston died, who I was a huge fan of, I was like wow it's, that's so sad.
It was like heartbreaking.
But then, like you know, you go to the next thing.
Kobe thing was weird, wasn't it?
The Kobe was weird.
The Kobe was weird and I just had like the weird because his daughter died too.
It's just a weird day.
So It was a whole chopper full of like a bunch of the teammates, a bunch of her teammates, I think.
I think it was like nine people, something like that.
And there was even a report.
I remember that afternoon when I was going to the job, there was like a report that like his whole family was on there.
And I'm like, oh my God, you know.
There's some things it's like just a little bigger than everything else.
That was weird because it was like, there's no way a dude like him could get in a freak accident like that.
I know.
It's like Kobe doesn't die.
Right.
It's like it's Kobe.
And dude, how weird was it the night before that they interviewed him about, what were they interviewing?
Or they were interviewing LeBron.
LeBron or was it him?
LeBron passed him the night before.
They were in the same arena, right?
And they were like no, but he had been in the same arena with him, I think, maybe a week before.
But then he sent out the congratulations tweet.
At like 1 a.m. or something.
Oh, LeBron passed him.
That's what happened.
Okay.
Right before.
How fucking crazy is that?
It's just wild.
That's weird, man.
I can't.
Still can't wrap my head around that one.
And if you would have told me that this was not going to be a top three story of the year, I would have looked at you like you were nuts.
And it probably.
I mean, it might be number three.
But like, you know, the pandemic hit and all this other shit and the election and everything.
Like all this shit happened.
So it's almost like it feels so much.
Like it was so much longer ago than it actually was but I remember that because I was at You know not to make it about myself at all, but it was like a weird day.
Researching Content Manager Roles00:07:10
I'm like look at us.
We're doing stupid fucking media work here You know what I mean like this is just like what even is this and We were supposed to start I think at like six and Ty looked at me because things got tight and he's like yo, can we do this at 10?
I'm like yeah, no problem.
I'll just chill so I'm just sitting there like thinking about this for like hours and then we did it and I didn't think anything of it.
It was just we put the cameras up kind of like this and everything.
And we just did like a little probably half hour worth of content, just going back and forth talking about his past and stuff like that for his company.
And they turned at the end, you know, they yelled cut and they turned the lights on in the place.
And I didn't realize, but there were like 35, I don't know, 25, 35 people, something like that, still there.
And they were all just like mesmerized.
I'm like, what?
This was kind of boring.
Like, I don't know what the big deal is, but some people came up to me after and they were like coming up in my face, like, bro, do you have a podcast?
And I'm like, no, no, I don't have a podcast.
They're like, you need a podcast.
And I had heard this before from some people, like, sporadically, never thought anything of it.
I'm like, what the fuck am I going to do with a podcast?
Why were they telling you you need a podcast?
Because we, Ty had asked me, and again, I didn't think anything of this, but he had asked me, like, For what we were going to do, he's like, Hey, I want you to ask about some of the shit that I did in college, too.
Because, like, I knew about that.
It wasn't like a big deal, but like some stuff that, like, it was kind of surprising that you'd have this and the content.
Like, he works with high school kids and stuff, but he's being very open, like, with parents about some of the dumb decisions he made in the past.
So I was just like, Okay, like, if you want to do that, cool.
And so I, you know, I knew the subject matter because I already knew the story and everything.
And we were going back and forth about it.
And I guess I just, like, pressed him on it, like, in a healthy way.
And people were, I guess a lot of the people sitting there had never heard this and they were very surprised.
Like this was some bullshit, you know, just filming a quick interview.
And then they were surprised to be like a little bit entertained by it and like how deep it got.
Again, we didn't think anything of it, but they did.
That was the point.
And so they're all telling me this.
And this is happening while it just all came together because it's happening while I'm on the job trail getting my ass handed to me because I was a banker.
Right.
And now I'm applying.
You know, my resume might look decent, but like I'm applying for a job to be like a creative somewhere.
And some of these recruiters, I mean, I was going, when I tell you I was going for the bottom tier jobs, I was going for the bottom.
I was going for jobs that paid 35 grand a year in New York City.
Like I was not going for anything that had anything that I wouldn't have to completely prove myself.
Like what?
Like what?
I can't even remember, man.
I think I looked at like something as simple as like content manager.
Okay.
Like ad agencies and stuff?
Yes.
All in marketing.
Cause I'm like, well, that's, I'll dip my toe in the pool over there.
and figure it out, right?
And I'm like, I'll start at the lowest possible job possible just to get my foot in the door and I'll take care of the rest, right?
So I did have some great experiences with some recruiters who are really cool, who just like, I reached out to some random senior people, just cold called them and they actually took my call and they liked that because I wasn't unrealistic about it.
But nonetheless, I'm getting in front of some of these opportunities and I just had like some negative situations where People weren't even giving me the time of day.
You expect that.
When you're getting it at every single stop, you feel like your whole life's a failure.
It's a natural human thing.
So this is all happening.
And then this thing happens, and people are coming up and telling me this thing.
And it's this weird day where Kobe died, and your head's all over the place.
And so I had to drive home late at night, like an hour and a half, and I just drove home in silence.
And I'm very glad I didn't actually think about this, because all I did was I was like, fuck it.
I could die in this car tomorrow.
I don't know what's going on here, but if I ever did a podcast, I'd do it right.
Let me just start researching equipment.
We'll see what happens.
And that was it.
Like there was no like writing down a plan or like how's it going to, there was none of that.
And I just started, I made it a weekend hobby.
I'd go to like B&H Photo.
I didn't know any of this shit.
The one in New York?
The one in Fairfield, New Jersey is the one I would go to.
It's a big one.
And, you know, when we had done media work, we always had a producer there.
He'd stick some mic on me, you know, give me the thumbs up and that was it.
You know, that's the extent of what I knew.
I knew things by eye, but I didn't know how to do any of it.
So I kind of learned all this stuff and about throughout February, I made a lot of progress on the job trail and I had like a couple really good opportunities potentially coming up.
And then the pandemic starts to possibly hit.
So I hit the order button on like all my main equipment.
I think like might have been like March 4th, something like that.
Then that next week happens where like the whole world starts to shut down.
Now, mind you, I'm still working in the markets at the time.
So I'm on the phone all day with clients freaking out.
They're losing money the whole nine.
I forget completely that I ordered this stuff.
So then the first day of quarantine, Friday, March 13th, I will never forget that.
I get the notification and it's like, all of your equipment has arrived downstairs.
And I'm like, oh my God, because now every job opportunity is dried up.
Like the whole world's stopping.
And I'm like, I bring it up, I look at the couch, and I'm like, what the fuck am I going to do with this?
This is the dumbest shit.
This is a sick joke on me right now.
So then I don't know.
Maybe it was like a second.
Maybe it was 10 seconds.
I don't know.
But I stared at it.
And then I'm like, fuck it.
When else am I going to do this?
And my boss, I swear to God, it was like either that day or within two days, calls me up and he says, hey, we're probably not going back to the office until like June.
And I'm like, okay.
And he's like, You definitely just had every job opportunity dry up, didn't you?
I'm like, yeah.
And he's like, all right, I know you were going to leave at the end of this month, but why don't you just chill and collect?
And then when the job market heats back up, you can get out of here.
And I'm like, sounds good to me, you know?
So I pretty much did that.
And while this was going on, I just crossed a chasm.
It was like April 1st.
I just had a moment and I never looked back and I'm like, I'm just going to build this shit.
I'm just going to build this.
I'm going to start on zero.
We're going to see where it goes.
So I spent the next five, six months researching, doing a whole bunch of shit, building.
And then I launched September 2020 and it just kind of, it.
It translated faster than I thought it was going to, to being able to be a guest podcast like I wanted it to be.
I thought I was going to have to do like 30 solo episodes before someone really wanted to come in.
Crossing The Chasm To Zero00:15:17
But to my surprise, I did get one person to come in on my initial like 10 that I dropped day one.
And then I had a few really cool people hit me up like, yo, I would totally do this.
I was like, all right, let's see how long this can last like that.
And then it just, it never stopped.
The only time I did a solo was when I had COVID, like a year later.
Yeah.
What do you do on a solo podcast?
Are you one of those guys that's good at just talking?
Bro, I can tell.
You can just sit there and have a conversation and just rant, right?
Yes.
It's funny if you get to a moment where there's a nice rant, which I might have had like one or two of those.
I don't even know how many of those I had, but I don't like it because I like bouncing ideas out there or having someone bounce them at me, whatever it is, and then hear the other perspective.
Sometimes someone goes 100%.
Agree.
Other times people go, that's the dumbest fucking shit I've ever heard in my life.
When you're in there, it's just the cameras and you're talking to the wall.
Yeah.
So, like, I understand some people like that content and I guess they like some of the solo episodes, but I just think it's so much better when you're talking with somebody.
Right.
So it was like there's a lot of guys that are really good at doing the solo shit, though.
You ever see Tim Dillon do it?
Bro, I watch every single one of his episodes.
It's incredible.
He's so fucking funny.
You know how hard that is?
I can't even imagine.
I can't even imagine.
Now, he does have Ben in there.
Yeah, which helps he laughs at everything and that makes it so much better he can but people I think unless you've done it don't realize that even having Just the producer in there who can fill like a gap of two seconds of silence with a laugh is huge because when you are just in there alone talking You are it's not like in a conversation where sometimes someone can have a dramatic pause and it's cool.
It's like oh shit.
I haven't talked for two and a half seconds.
I got to say something.
I got to say something and you're like you don't want to over edit it So when I was really strict with myself, I'm like, no cuts of this.
Like, the only thing is if, God forbid, I pause for five seconds, I'll cut to the second camera and we'll make it two.
But I didn't want to do that.
And so that was like, it was stressful.
And also, there was extensive research that would go into each of those because they'd be on a very specific topic, be a lot of work on that.
And it's just not as fun.
So, you know, I'm glad I did it because it made me have to be. good at that.
It's pretty hard to do, I guess.
But yeah, I like getting to the guest model, which is also why I liked your podcast right away, because in my opinion, there aren't enough podcasts who are doing long-form conversations that are not in niche, right?
You have all different types of people on here.
Right, right, right.
All different types of people.
There needs to be way more of that.
I could never figure out why you have, obviously, Joe Rogan is the number one podcast in the world.
That's what he does.
from his own angle.
Guy like Lex Friedman does that very well, one of Joe's guys.
There's some others, like I guess Dak Shepard for a while.
I haven't seen it in a while, but he was doing that and it was longer form, but there's not nearly as many as you would think.
And there's a big demand for it.
Yeah.
Most of the most successful ones are, are in a niche.
Right.
I think that's the best way to like gain traction or to gain like a big following because there's so many fucking podcasts.
It's just easier for them to all be categorized into their own niche.
So you can watch this podcast for that, this, that podcast for that.
Otherwise, you know, otherwise it's just kind of like you're just gaining.
People, people, no one's sticking, right?
So if no one's interested in you, they're just going to find, come to you for the one guest you had.
And the next guest could be, you could have a fucking guy who sells cotton candy one day and an FBI agent the other day.
No one's going to come back with another next episode.
Yeah.
It makes it, it does make it a harder road.
So like I look at you, you did it a really outside the box way, unplanned too, which is cool.
You're a great filmmaker.
You built a channel with kick ass documentaries.
So you, you, Built an audience of people who are like yo this guy's fire and then you launched a podcast and as you told me there were certainly people who were like all right.
Well, I'm not about this, and they left right, But there are a lot of people who weren't, yeah, so they were already there Yeah, if you stayed, yeah, and so you already had, and you had credibility right, like that's a great way to do it.
With me, if I hadn't gone to the short clip model to like entice people, I'd be dead.
Really, no shot.
That's where a hundred 100 million percent of the growth is.
From that, from the tick tock stuff yes really, and it's all.
It's all from that too, because on youtube you go hard on that, I try.
You take clips from movies.
Yeah, you add music.
It was, look man, how many podcasts are there?
Like four million now, how many, at least four billion right at active.
Let's call, let's be, let's overshoot it, let's say active.
There's two and a half million in this country right, just alone, that do podcasts like an episode a week right right, something like that, At least one.
There's obviously some people who do like one every month.
Sure.
But I'm saying like, let's call active podcast once a week to use what you just said or more.
That means that this is one of the dumbest possible things you could ever do as a career decision.
Because you are trying to get attention.
Before the pandemic, there was 191 million people who would listen to a podcast.
It's definitely higher now.
I think 60% of them were weekly listeners at the time.
So that's.
Maybe it was like 125, 130.
I'm trying to remember these numbers.
So if I'm a little off, sorry.
But either way, now divide that across two and a half million.
And also look at the talent out there.
Look at the people making great podcasts, doing great work.
Hard to take away from that.
Like, are you crazy enough to walk in day one and be like, I want to take some listeners from Joe Rogan?
Yeah, yeah, right.
You're never going to do that.
Yeah.
It shouldn't be your mindset.
Your mindset should be like, let me see if I can carve out someone wanting to possibly add me into their role with other people who happen to be great at this.
Right, right.
So, like, Also, asking people to check out a longer form podcast, it's an instant gratification world.
They want to know what they're getting.
So, you're already behind the eight ball.
Right.
So, what I eventually did is I looked across the board and I said, What is something that no one else is doing?
And I couldn't figure it out, but I'm like, No one goes all out on short clips.
Like, no one makes it a production like what you would do with your documentaries.
No one makes it like a work of art.
Right.
Like they all just like take clip, boop, drop it right there.
They don't even, they just cut, they just chop it out and post it.
And they barely even chop like in between to not have silence and stuff.
Or they'll, they'll literally, my favorite is like in a TikTok feed or a YouTube shorts feed that's 1080 by 1920 where every video that someone's hitting is 1080 by 1920.
They'll just like lift a 1080 by 1350 graphic from Instagram and like, boop.
Yeah, people are going to watch that.
It like doesn't care about the viewer.
So I'm like, this is crazy.
And then like the few people who actually pulled this off are doing well.
Like I think I could do this.
It took a while to like get to the point where I was like good at it, but that's just what I leaned into.
Interesting.
Yeah.
Cause your TikTok is like huge.
You have hundreds of thousands of TikTok followers, don't you?
But does the TikTok stuff transition to YouTube and that and all the other shit?
That's my question.
It did.
It did.
To Apple and Spotify way more than YouTube.
Really?
Yes.
Yes.
So I knew that there was.
I think about this a lot because some of it still doesn't make sense to me and there's a lot I don't know.
But I did know that pre-pandemic, I want to say it was like maybe 25, 30% of podcast consumers consumed video.
So they consumed on YouTube, right?
It's probably higher now because more people have home offices.
They throw it on the screen over there, right?
And I could never figure that out because I'm like, I never did that.
Like to this day, like now when I sit in the studio, yeah, I'll throw it on.
So I guess technically I am, but I'm never looking at it.
Very rarely.
Like there has to be a really poignant moment.
Like when you had the, what was the girl's name who had the baby in jail?
Oh, yeah.
Jessica Kent.
Yeah.
So like I remember I had, I was doing work.
I had that on the third screen over there in the studio.
And then she got to a moment where she talked about when they were going to take the baby away from her in the hospital.
That I turned to.
Because like you can hear it.
And she, you know, she's like trying to not get emotional about it.
So like that's nice to be able to do that.
Yeah.
But I never, I was a pot.
I was.
I'll subscribe to like 137 podcasts.
Like, I'm a podcast head and I never did that.
So I'm like, well, these people got to be out there.
You know, they're doing it.
So I could never figure out how to translate it to YouTube.
And with TikTok, what would happen was I wanted people to see that this was like a legit production.
So I put the link to YouTube only in there.
So I didn't want to make them have to click twice.
Like in the profile or in the actual post?
In my post.
Okay.
You can't put it in the post.
Right.
Okay.
So in my profile, I would put it.
And I didn't want them to have to click to a Beacons page and then find another link.
I'm like, I'm just going to give them YouTube.
It says on the corner of my video, Apple, Spotify, YouTube, so I'll let them figure it out.
And what I found is pretty much like fans, people who became fans would come in there and grateful for this, by the way, and they'd hit subscribe on YouTube, but that's not where they would consume it.
They would go to Apple and Spotify.
So I started charting on Apple, on Apple at least.
I don't know about Spotify, but started charting in the U.S. on Apple, and I still was at, at the time, I think I was at 6,000 subscribers on YouTube, and no one watched there.
I had like 50 views an episode, something like that.
And then I'm like, you know what?
This is fine because we're building in one place.
We'll figure it out over here eventually.
And what ended up happening is YouTube Shorts started to work.
And then that's where I built literally, like before they started to work, which was about December 1st, I think I had like 15,500 subscribers.
And my whole subscriber base has come from that.
From the Shorts?
From the Shorts.
Wow.
Which is also.
I think it's all good.
That's what Jessica Kent was talking about, too.
She was talking about the shorts.
Yeah, I remember she talked about that.
Yeah.
And she said that that was like, I get good discoverability there.
I think she was posting like four days a week or something.
But like, you could say it's good and it's bad.
I think it's all good because it gets me exposure.
Yeah.
And like, I work for these clips.
They're usually about 28 to 47 seconds, somewhere in there.
You know, some of them take 25 hours to do.
Like, I go all out on them.
And so like, I know now I've seen enough data, like, I know what the bar needs to be at.
to earn people's time and to earn the right for them to not skip this video.
And it works.
And so the downside is that for now, YouTube, because I was in a YouTube Shorts pod too.
The company came in one of those where we meet once every other week or something, exchange ideas.
It's one of the leaders of the Shorts team and YouTube runs the team.
And she's great.
But one of the things that YouTube hasn't figured out yet is how to Classify shorts within their algorithm because, and I don't, I'm getting above my pay grade here, but my understanding is that the way the algorithm works is it wants content that's all in the same length zone.
Hence why you have like Logan Paul has impulsive, but then he has impulsive clips, right?
A lot of these channels they do one and the other.
That's because when he posts an episode that's one and a half, two hours versus posting a three minute clip, YouTube doesn't measure average watch time.
I think, I think, before it measures the average, the total watch time on each.
So if I watch 100% of a three-minute clip on YouTube, that's great, right?
If the audience is watching an average of 100%, you have a perfect clip.
Right.
That's three minutes.
Now I post an hour and a half episode.
Let's say you have great on an hour and a half episode where some people just click and don't watch.
You have a great watch time.
You have 45 minutes of watch time on that.
So you have 50%.
YouTube doesn't give you credit for the fact that you have 50% on an hour and a half video and someone stayed on their app for 45 minutes.
Right.
Because they're rectifying it with, well, it was three.
It was three over here.
And now it's 45 here.
So then the numbers get fucked up.
So what happens is now I built this subscriber base on YouTube, which has helped on Apple and Spotify, which is great.
And it's helped on YouTube.
And I have way higher numbers than I did.
But I don't go into a lot of people's feeds.
My ultra fans, like the people who are literally refreshing to like wait for the next thing that drops, they all get it because they, you know, they have notifications on the whole nine.
But most people, I don't go in their feed yet because YouTube goes, oh, wait, he posted a three-hour episode.
Don't put that one in there.
Then I post a 30-second short.
Oh, put that one in there.
Oh, so your channel is basically optimized for shorts.
Yes.
Got it.
But it's given me all the exposure.
Right.
So, like some of the shorts creators in the pods, will complain about this so much because their shorts, they don't get any views on their regular content or whatever.
But i'm like, first of all, Youtube's paying us for these shorts.
You know, could it be more maybe, but like they're, they're paying out.
It's a big fund, so they are paying out a lot of money.
I'll give them credit.
So you're making money and you're getting exposure.
You have to be able to capitalize on that exposure somehow, even if it's going to be longer, harder work, like for now.
The way I got to do it is I got to get Way bigger, to get to a point where I split it up and ask people to go to another channel, too.
I'm very conscious of that.
I don't want to have them do that yet.
Cannibalize it.
Yeah.
So I'm like, well, I know I can get exposure with these shorts.
So guess what, bitch?
You got to fucking make a couple shorts a week.
And that's most of your week, but just do it.
You know?
So I think that's a good trade.
It's incredible, man.
What you're doing is insane, especially the amount of work that you put into those things.
And another thing is most podcasts aren't even on YouTube.
Like a lot of big podcasts.
That's one thing that was hard for me was discovering podcasts that weren't on YouTube because I don't fucking, I still don't know how to find them.
You were one of those guys.
Capitalizing On Shorts Exposure00:03:00
You were one of the YouTube heads with podcasts.
Yeah.
I mean, I was YouTube before podcasts.
So, like, all I cared about was getting my shit to get viewed on YouTube.
Yeah.
I don't know.
Are you one of those guys that's like super analytical?
Like, do you go into like the numbers and watch like how far they watch and like, okay, right there, they stopped.
I got to figure out what I did wrong right there.
Maybe like adjust that a little bit.
Oh, fuck yeah.
You're super analytical, right?
In my life, I'm not good at screenshotting shit, but on YouTube and TikTok, I'm good at screenshotting shit.
So I go in, I have a drill.
Like, I try to live by this with certain things.
I'd rather be looking at it than looking for it.
So I remember there were some early shorts videos that started to go that were at a similar time period where they started to go.
And I hadn't screenshotted some of my analytics data from shorts like a month before.
And I'm like, never again.
So now every time I go in there, it's like speed demon.
Like I go into that YouTube studio app.
I can't because it's on airplane mode right now.
But I go into that app and like I click the video, boom, boom, boom.
Screenshot.
I have the screenshot of the time obviously, when I did it.
It shows, I get the screen of how far into the video it is.
So is it seven days and 20 hours?
At this point I'm screenshotting it.
It gives me the percentage watch time.
It gives me the number of.
I get the screenshot of the page that has the number of comments that were on it, the number of likes, so I can get a ratio.
I go look at the number of subscribers who have subscribed on the basis of this video.
I will go screenshot the relevant episode to see where those views are being translated.
So like, is a short translating to people going to the episode?
I want to know that, right?
Because I want to know what ones work, what ones don't.
But yeah, I do a lot of that.
You go deep on it.
Do you build like spreadsheets and like break all this stuff down?
No, okay.
You just look at the screenshots and you know what the fuck you got to do next.
It's up here.
And then like if I'm thinking about a specific thing, I will go back into those screenshots and I have a photographic memory.
So I'll be like, okay, the Raj video from a month ago.
That was roughly around the time I screenshotted this other thing.
Let me go find that.
Okay.
I remember there was like a 91.8% watch time at like 400 viewers.
And then at 4,000, it was the same.
Like, and then I'll go confirm that.
And then I want to see where it was at 400,000.
How much did it fluctuate?
Did it go off 91.8 or whatever it was to 91.4?
Or did it flip around and still go way up in views, but it's down at 89% watch time?
Yeah.
Interesting, dude.
That's so crazy.
So when you first started doing this shit, You started having just like your friends come on, or did you like have an idea of the type of guest that you want to have?
Like, Jim, like you said, you knew Jim for years, right?
Like, did you kind of want to go down that kind of like crazy American history, deep state type rabbit hole?
Piecing Together Exact Quotes00:04:15
My rule was simple if I'm curious about it, let's do it because you seem like you know a lot of shit.
Like, you seem like you know quite a bit about politics, history, that kind of stuff.
I think, I mean, this is my job.
I don't do anything else, right?
Like, I sit here, I work on the podcast, and it Part of my job is knowing what's going on.
Is that because of the podcast, or is that just like natural for you?
Some of it's natural, but it's also like, yeah, I'm in the studio, I'm working.
Like this is where I get my quick bites of what's going on.
What's the big story that just happened?
Oh, there's people talking about someone Twitter.
Let's see what that is.
And I still miss most of it.
So like a couple things there.
Number one, it's very easy.
And maybe you would notice this if you thought about it, like from your podcast.
I'll bet it's probably pretty similar.
It's very easy once you have some sort of expert in front of you on whatever it is.
Could be a current event or it could be like their life and what they did.
It's very easy to start putting things together if they're opening up.
And I've been lucky.
I've had a lot of people.
I mean, like Jim's a great example.
We keep bringing him up, and your people will hear him soon.
Like, that guy doesn't give a fuck.
He'll just say, at this point, he's like, yeah, I'll tell you about this case.
I'll tell you about that one.
I'll tell you about that time I did that to this criminal.
Like, he'll just go off.
And so then maybe while he's talking, I can piece together things I remember of like, oh, what about this other thing this other person told me about one time?
Yeah.
And then connect the dots.
I can sound like I know it, but really all I'm doing is I'm.
Fishing, and then he might say, yeah, exactly.
And then suddenly, like now he's got another story.
And I try to do that.
Sometimes it doesn't work, but yeah, I try to stay like informed, but I don't know what I don't know, and that's, that's a lot.
I just like to have an idea.
Like you and I were talking about psilocybin mushrooms before this.
Yeah yeah, I told you I don't know much about them.
I think I listened one time to like a Joe Rogan episode where he had on some guy and it kind of went over my head.
So like, I don't know if tomorrow I'd bring in psilocybin guy, but I might.
Right.
And I might just be like, all right, I don't know fucking shit, man.
Tell me what it is.
Yeah.
You know?
And then would people give me credit for knowing about that?
Maybe, but they shouldn't.
You know what I mean?
Like, it's almost like you kind of get credit for asking questions.
Right.
If that makes sense.
Yeah, it totally does.
Yeah.
And I'll definitely give you some of those microdoses if you want some.
Yeah.
They're pretty good.
I think I've been thinking as I think about it.
They're not hardcore.
I've been thinking about it for a few years because I'm like, that was one part of college I skipped.
Like, I just watched all my buddies do it.
Yeah.
I'm like, I kind of wonder.
But there's like, there's like, not Bluke, but there's like people in like Silicon Valley that work at these tech companies and these creative think tank people that take those things every day when they go to work and just trying to be creative.
This is in your phone because of mushrooms.
Or in your phone.
This is in your hand.
I'm holding the phone.
Oh, yeah.
For people listening.
This is in your hand because of.
Trips, right?
That's what Steve Jobs did.
And that definitely, I'm a huge Steve Jobs guy.
Are you?
Yeah, that's one of the things that I'm curious about.
I don't know a lot about the history of him.
Was he big into magic mushrooms?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
And does he say that that's what led him to create a lot of the products through tripping?
He has.
Like having the visions?
He was quoted as, and I don't remember the exact quotes, so I'm not going to give them, but he was quoted in the range of talking about how.
Those experiences especially like right after college and I think during college at one point he like lived out in the desert I think in a in an RV for a month or some shit like that He went to India did some wild shit over there those experiences when he was using Creative substances and I don't remember if it was like psilocybin.
I got to go look at that again, but he was using some of this stuff That is what gave him a lot of his creative vision on the world and it allowed him to put things together so like It married his interests his OCD with his creativity.
Steve's Carpenter Father Story00:03:01
Right.
So one of my favorite stories about him is his father, because he was adopted.
So he genetically didn't have a lot in common with his dad.
They were different people.
But his, he was tight with his dad.
And his dad was like a, I don't remember his exact job, but one of his skills was he was an unbelievable carpenter.
He could just make incredible shit.
And so when Steve was like maybe five, six, seven years old, his dad made some cabinet or some armoire that goes against the wall.
And when Steve thought he was finished, his dad pulled it back out and like shook his head and went and got the tools and started going to work on it again on the back, like the part you don't see.
And he's like, Dad, what are you doing?
He's like, it's perfect.
You don't need to do it.
And he goes, no, there was like a, there's some sort of like indentation here or something like that.
And Steve said to him, he said, Dad, that's on the back.
No one's ever going to see that.
And he said, no, you're going to know it's there, though.
And if you know it's there.
That's a horrible pattern and it'll never be right.
So that's why when you look at Apple, you know, one of the foundational things that Steve Jobs did turning them around was the IMAX, which he made the, and it drove the engineers nuts because they don't think like this at all.
But he and Johnny Ive made the engineers design the inside.
Like, well, they designed it, but he made them work within the designs that he came up with for what the inside looks like, including the parts that even after their transparent design happens, no one would ever see.
So, when you, if you're like a tech guy and you take apart your Apple, it looks like a work of art inside.
No one knows it, but it does because it translates to the rest of the product.
They did this even before they created this, that see-through plastic thing.
Remember the round one with the round iMac and the see-through?
Yeah, that's exactly what I'm talking about.
And you could see some of it there.
I don't think you could see all of it.
But part of it was even before that model, I believe, because he came back to the company in 97.
But part of doing the whole transparent, design there was quite literally an example of transparency.
Look at the work inside.
This isn't like a fucking Windows toss-together job because no disrespect to engineers.
They make the whole thing go.
And that's important to remember.
But generalizing here, engineers don't really think about design.
Go look at Discord.
Case in point, right?
Simplicity and engineers don't go together.
You have to.
The reason Apple was so great is because Steve married brilliance of engineering with you know the teams he put together because he wasn't an engineer himself with the simplicity of the final user.
So when you went on to your IPod for the first time he, he wanted nothing more than two clicks away right, and so that's how I think of like that.
Engineering Meets Design Simplicity00:15:17
That shit changed my life.
Thinking about that and reading the books about Johnny Ive and stuff and how these guys would look at stuff.
Simplicity is like It's the most important thing, and that was.
That was what I was saying about your documentaries too, your style.
I noticed that right away when I was watching those for the first time.
You're very like, it's easy to take in and you're doing it where it feels like you're doing a lot and you are because you're filming all this stuff.
But with the final product, it's actually right there in front of you.
It doesn't try too hard.
It's not zooming in every two seconds on somebody.
It's not like trying to get some crazy shot left and right.
It's like, nope, the drone goes right over the setting kind of like they did in True Detective.
Boom, boom, boom.
Dude, I love that fucking show.
God damn.
I could tell.
I could tell.
You take it all in.
Now you feel like you're there.
I feel like I'm in Madeira Beach with all these.
I was calling it dock cans, but it's deck cans.
Deck cans, yeah.
Yeah, with all these deck cans.
And then boom, we're right in front of Shane going, fuck yeah, man.
It's like you did all that, and the viewer, they don't know why they love that, but that's why they love it because it's right there.
I stole a lot of that style from Breaking Bad.
It's a great example.
Yeah.
That's where I got most inspiration for that filmmaking shit, those little documentaries that I've done in the past.
All of it from Breaking Bad.
That makes so much sense now.
I did not put that together.
Now I'm putting it together.
Whatever it is in front of you, like up close, like they'll be taking the keys out of the locker and you'll have the shot of like the key.
You did some.
That's funny.
The best thing about Breaking Bad is like the way they shot that was they would mix so many like super tight shots and immediately cut them with super wide angle shots.
So like they would go crazy by going back and forth between super like tight zoomed in shots to super wide shots.
And I never go in the way that it's weird.
You got to be like a, like a, Cinematographer, I love that type nerd to understand this kind of shit.
I love that, but the way that you kind of use lenses can like have a dramatic effect on how people process the documentary, and that's what I learned a lot.
I learned a lot about that from Breaking Bad.
What are your other main inspirations?
Kind of putting you on the spot.
Sorry, I don't know.
I like True Detective, the first season of True Detective is one of my favorite shows ever.
Might be the best season of TV.
Ever made it really, really was with Matthew McConaughey, dude, and Woody Harrelson.
That was fucking.
Will you shut the fuck up?
Yeah, you say the dumbest shit sometimes.
I'm trying to think, like, what else was really good besides Breaking Bad, True Detective?
Um, I don't know, I can't think of anything right now.
Those two, those two definitely like top five for sure, but you know, like we were talking about earlier, like transitioning from.
Communicating shit with just like lenses and like light, light, light and lenses is what all it is.
Then going into just like something like this, just talking back and forth and communicating with someone, it's night and day.
It's completely two different worlds.
Yeah, it's it's it's two different things.
Oh, yeah, it's completely it's it's but it's kind of the same thing though.
It's kind of the same thing because you're saying communication.
Well, one thing, this is more of communication that I mean, it's both entertainment, right?
It's both.
They're both forms of entertainment.
It's both forms of media.
They're on the same exact medium.
They're both on YouTube.
You're kind of doing the same thing.
Like, I'm not really interviewing you right now, but when you're talking to somebody like Shane Lee or like that girl, Lady Kim, you kind of just like, I'm in a dark alley with a camera on a tripod, kind of having a conversation like this, but I'm cutting myself out of it.
Right.
Right.
I understand what you're saying.
And I can add in all this cool looking fucking B roll, music, drone footage, whatever it is, to spice it up and make it look.
Better and give it more of a vibe, more of a feel.
You know what I mean.
Watching those things is more like a, like a.
It's like a vibe like watching like a really cool music video way different.
I understand what you're saying.
Now I was, I was thinking something else at the beginning, but yeah, and and like you also, it's a different, it's a different kind of skill, as I mean, it's a different kind of intelligence, I think.
But you, here's the thing where I because we were literally talking about this, like right before we walked in yeah we, we got cut off, but good spot to go back into it.
First of all, For all your fans out there, who I assume have pretty much, I mean, I assume you've seen deck hands at this point.
It's phenomenal.
But that fourth part in particular with Kim, some of the best, and the word best is not great, but bear with me.
That is, for my money, some of the greatest 15 minutes of storytelling I have ever seen in my life.
And it would, seriously though, like a lot of that series, it's sad and funny at the same time.
That one, it almost appeared for a second like it was going to be.
And then you see this woman's story and what happened to her.
And the fact that you, like, you talk about, oh, I get to be behind the camera and designing all of it.
You also had to.
Of course, you were there.
You can't control what's going to happen to her.
And obviously, some very advantageous things for filmmaking happen while you were with her.
Let's be honest.
But you also, while you're doing this, you're talking with her.
And the shit you got her to open up about, it struck me when we were talking outside, you don't comprehend how difficult that is because, fuck, man.
I mean, the heaviness of that.
I went and looked it up after this, I did tell you.
For people who weren't there listening to us when we were talking, which is nobody.
I went up and looked up each one of those people.
Yeah, I did.
And I saw the comment sections were like, oh, RIP, these people.
I'm like, damn, this was in the last four or five years.
They all died.
They all died.
And she died three months after this video.
She's the first one.
Right.
So I go and I find her obituary.
Now, mind you, and for anyone who hasn't actually seen this, this woman was molested by her father.
Who was a cop.
Who was a cop.
Yep.
And she was a lawyer.
I forgot that.
From age four to 17.
Right.
You got the visual details of her explaining exactly how it went down.
He impregnated her, made her have the kid and took the kid from her, and then she ran away.
And that's how her life got out of control.
But first of all, I mean, that's like, I don't even know what to say about that.
But you also get all that on camera.
You capture this woman's. tragedy.
I mean, she had a horror anthology series of a life just for the first 17 years.
And then the rest of it was just like a sad documentary.
Right.
Right.
And first of all, it reminds you of the perspective of all other people around you because you're like, you never know.
You never know who's been through what, where they're from, what they're about.
You know, there's good and there's bad with just about everyone besides Adolf Hitler.
Right.
So, you know, there's exceptions, but by and large, most people, there's good and bad.
And like with her, when I went and looked up her obituary, it just, that hit me so heavy because it says her name.
It says the day she was born in 1968, the day she died in 2017.
And then no one has come forward, period.
And that's all it says.
And I'm like, okay, somebody was inhabiting this earth for 49 years.
Based on the fact that you spent the first two minutes of the episode asking a bunch of people where you could find her, people knew her.
People knew who she was.
She had a nickname.
She was arrested by cops sometimes.
They knew her.
The jail systems knew her.
She grew up somewhere.
She had some family there, obviously not a good one, but people knew her.
And she never had a shot.
She said it on camera, too.
You got her to say this.
I never had a childhood.
And that was tragic to me because she actually knew that.
Most people, at least what I've seen, people who have tragedy, they know that, but they don't.
You don't admit it.
Right, exactly.
But she was like, no, I didn't have one.
It was taken from me.
Because he would come out, I'd hear his keys jingling, and I'd know he was about to rape me on the beach.
Like the whole thing.
Like running down the beach, yeah.
The whole thing and like you get all this and I'm like if Danny had not gotten this 15 minutes right here as a time capsule for anyone to watch in the future.
Yeah, this woman's life would be Kim whatever her last name was I don't even remember it's bad, but was born on this date died on this date.
Yeah Hollywood Kim.
Yeah No one's come forward someone reads that 200 years from now.
They go oh man, nothing happened It's like well, no a lot happened.
Yeah, and like we should learn from that too like if people can Some one person out there can take something from that and be like, oh, I'm in a bad situation too.
Like I don't want to end up like that or You know what about my friends so-and-so they they don't strike me as well Maybe I should talk with them hmm, you know, that's that's a tragic insane situation, but it happens Things like that happen.
Yeah, it's weird to it does so.
I think it does something to them, to their minds, when you kind of like immortalize them on the internet because they all became like instant celebrities.
Down there on the beach, everyone who people would come down from different states, because this is a big transient tourist area too, a lot of people would come down like and see them at bars or come down to even try to find them.
They'd come, they go to Shanely and shit, they go to Madeira beach just to try to find those guys and then, like when they go on there, like every time, after we did those first episodes, we kind of like we would always go down there every couple months or every month, like trying to catch up with them, see how they're doing and see what's up, and they'd be like all they want to talk about is their video, like my video, what you should read that comment on my video, like what the hell's on the video?
Like, can we do it on their video?
Can we do their video?
And it was like it it's, I don't know what it does, but psychologically, it did something to them.
You gave them purpose.
Yeah.
I don't know if that was it.
Yeah, they got a lot of joy out of that.
Yeah.
And, like, as sad as that seems, because it's just a video out there that, like, some people saw them and it doesn't change their circumstance or situation, like, it gave them something.
But, I mean, it also, like, it makes me think, too.
Like, I can't help but think, release that video of Kim and she dies two months later.
Yeah.
I know.
It makes me think, like, was that part of the reason she might have died?
Like, did she give up after she realized her life was out there?
You know, I mean, I think about that stuff sometimes.
Now that you think about, like, you gave this lady purpose, whatever you want to call it.
You say that, you know, her story is now out there, immortalized.
Everybody knows about it.
It's kind of like, could that, could she have given up after that somehow?
Maybe.
I don't know.
You're handling that well.
I'll tell you that because that's a heavy thing.
And it's not, you know.
She's super sick, though.
Yeah.
Didn't she?
Cancer.
I was going to say, didn't she say she had cancer?
She had it bad.
She said that on camera.
I thought it was a good one.
I don't think she had lung to live.
Well, she had a according to Shane Lee she had cunt cancer.
Yeah.
Yeah, that was That guy interesting interesting straight to it man.
He don't sugarcoat nothing sugarcoat anything but yeah You listen to what she said I could see that like that part at the end where she got I guess she got like kicked out of that house she was staying at or something which was like Jesus Christ, You know, I think she looked at didn't even look at the camera, but she's like, just take me to the water yeah, because that's where oh yeah, I forgot about that that was.
She used to get raped on the beach because she would go to the water, because the sound of the water would give her comfort, or something like that.
How wild is that dude?
And so in that moment she didn't care that she was in some random documentary guy's car that all went out the window.
She didn't care if this was getting views on youtube.
She was legitimately once again, for the millionth time in her life, broken and said, take me to the water because i'll be all right there.
And then she went to the water and for A minute she got her breath under her and then was actually able to say something again and said a lot of heavy shit, too.
But that could, the way you put that, that could have been, you know, she was already very sick.
As you said, like, that kind of thing could have been, like, the last testament of her life.
Right.
And she never had, never thought she was going to get the chance.
But I mean, she got to talk to her kid on there, which.
Right.
You know.
That's kind of what hit me about it.
Like, thinking about, like, you put this message out there directly to your kid, and it got, I don't know how many views it got.
It must have got, like, almost a million views on that documentary.
It got a lot.
Didn't get enough, but it got a lot.
And it's like almost like maybe she psychologically like that was the bow on it.
I do believe in that shit.
I think people, I mean, I think it's also, I don't want to speak for anything.
I don't have any studies in front of me, but I think some of that's probably been supported by science.
Like the mental, emotional tie to physical life.
Like why do some people get something off their chest and then look up at the sky, take their last breath and die?
You know, it's like, oh, we didn't know they were going to go today.
And your mind is something, I mean, think about like people who get diagnosed with cancer.
Who it's all like, think about like when you go through that process, you get diagnosed, you get told, the doctor tells you you have this X amount of days to live.
Most of them live up to that exact amount of time the doctor tells them.
Yeah.
It's kind of like a mental self fulfilling prophecy.
When there are some people who have the ability to like change their state or change who they are, whatever, and like fight through it, the rare people.
But I think, I truly do think that a lot of times when in those kind of situations, people get diagnosed with cancer that.
They believe that shit and they go down this depressive downward spiral because of the psychology of that diagnosis, it is almost unbearable.
And it just kind of like adds kerosene to the fire and helps you die quicker.
Yeah.
Look, I don't think anyone can really know until, God forbid, it happens to them.
But you can learn from watching other people deal with crazy shit and how it molds them.
You know, and like.
Her environment is what made her life.
And, like, on the one hand, yeah, do people have free will?
Can they make decisions?
Yeah.
But who the fuck am I to judge somebody who got raped by their dad for 13 years?
Right.
Learning From Others' Crazy Shit00:02:22
Like, I can't believe she was still alive.
Yeah.
She lived 48 years.
I can't believe that's like plus 31 on the over.
Right.
You know, seriously, like, not to be, like, callous about it, but.
Crazy to me, and I'll bet she wished she died, you know.
Like, I just don't something like that, man.
I mean, we got into this rabbit hole talking about your style, but the way you put that together, and like, even with the dark comedy on the front with the Shane with the quotes, oh my god, like he said that, and that was the first video I watched.
Oh, was it really?
So I didn't know that was the last episode you watched first, and I was and I was like, that's kind of wild, and I didn't know where it was going.
I saw the title, so I'm like, I was gonna be rich, and then it.
Gets to where it did.
And again, you talk about different content on YouTube, all different shit that has to compare.
This is a 15 minute documentary.
This wasn't a feature film.
It took you 15 minutes to get a snapshot, a very vivid one.
It took you 15 minutes to watch it.
It took years to make it.
Let's be very clear about that.
You were filming all night and all day with her and the editing.
I know that.
But I'm saying the final product that the person sees, like me, who had no idea of the story.
Right, right.
Boom.
I mean, that is so, so, I had Jim watch that too.
Did you?
Yeah, he called me up.
He's like, holy.
And, you know, this guy's seen the worst of the worst.
The worst.
This guy was one of the lead interrogators globally for the FBI.
Like, he's seen the worst of the worst.
And he's like, that's fucking fucked up.
I'm like, yeah.
And we just sat there in silence for a minute.
He's like, I just, yeah.
That's insane.
Well, when you can dramatize it with music and timing and all that, it makes it hit way harder.
Yeah.
You know, if you strip that thing of the music and the timing and some of like the, just like, it's everything about it.
Just like the color grading.
It just, Creates this full fucking effect and makes it hit you 10 times harder.
Yeah.
And you're, I mean, even like on your podcast, how you do it, like with the cameras and some of the, you know, this is your expertise, cinematography.
So like, that little.
It's like minus the editing, minus the music, minus the B roll.
So it's like, still though, you have to be good.
Music Timing Makes It Hit Harder00:05:02
That's not, absolutely.
Yeah.
But that's when people are coming into it, they're expecting a podcast.
Right.
Right.
They're not like, it's in the studio, it's back and forth.
Exactly.
So when someone's coming across a podcast for the first time, this is why it's so important.
They don't know who you are.
There's a million podcasts out there.
They're going to give this maybe two seconds.
Right.
Screen comes on and they see like the production and there's something.
There's just something that looks different about your visual.
It's really wild how you do it.
And they're like, what the fuck is this?
And the next thing you know, they just watch a Roger Reeves episode.
Yeah, I know, right.
You know, it's like that's how it goes.
So it's, but look, man, I think, uh, I think you, you married something that you wanted to do that you, Probably did more than you realized which is talking with people and getting to the bottom of people story and and what they're about or what they think about things with you know also putting together something that is Produced in a visually beautiful way.
Yeah for me.
I mean it's it's in some ways I'm like the very opposite of you when I'm not at all analytical like not one bit like it makes my head hurt to think about numbers and to like look at stuff and look at graphs and look at charts because like most people who are doing this shit on YouTube or creating any kind of content on YouTube Most of them are very analytical.
And like we were talking about earlier, like, I'm going to do more stuff.
Like, if this gets a lot of views, I'm going to do more content like that.
Or if people in the comments are saying, you got to do this, you got to do this, you got to do this, like, I'm going to do like what they say.
Like, most people do do that.
And I think that's, that is, contributes to a lot of success on social media.
You got to, you got to, you got to do that.
You got to be good at doing that.
And that's just something I've never been good at.
You were saying something else to me earlier, though, before we were on here, about doing what you want to do, though, versus doing what, you think people want, and that's a in my opinion.
You know, I only know from doing my own stuff, so take that for what it is.
That's something you got to marry right, like if you're not doing something that you want to do, you might be able to pull off one piece of good content, two pieces.
Eventually, like your heart's not there, so like the people who just kind of chase whatever the trend is.
It's why a lot of them flame out versus like I I haven't watched Rogan in a long time, but Mr Beast was on last week and I I queued that fucking thing up.
Oh, really?
I don't know, like three weeks ago or something.
I queued that thing up right away.
That guy's a fucking psycho.
He's a machine.
He is a machine.
No, he won't talk analytical.
Oh, my God.
That man's analytical.
But he leans into things that he enjoys, right?
It's fun for him, right?
So there's been, he talked about videos in the past where the guy's spending a million dollars on a video.
He's like, nah, let's cut it.
I don't like it.
You know what I mean?
He's not like, well, we made it.
It's analytically appealing.
Let's put it, he's like, nah, this ain't it.
And I look at that and I'm like, scraps a million dollar video.
This guy's speaking my.
No, that's a little crazy.
That's a little.
That's a little crazy.
I don't know about all that.
That's a little crazy.
But he's also making, you know, insane money.
And then translating it in all those fucking languages, dude.
Yeah.
Holy shit.
That was an instant.
He is a machine.
He's a fact.
That was like, I saw that and I'm like, oh, I got two and a half hours of Mr. Beast talking.
Let's hear that shit.
Nothing else is going on.
You know that there's going to be little nuggets you can get from that.
And really, I got like reassurance on a few things too because he talked about like the attention map of people and how.
how you always have to be testing, how you have to figure out like this works versus like the smallest things, like a shade on a thumbnail, stuff like that.
And there's some of it like, you know, I'm running my whole shop myself.
I can't do all this, but the things I do a lot, what I can, I guess, the things I can do, yeah, I want to test with that stuff.
I definitely do that with my short content.
I'm always testing like even like a one frame out of 24 pause that I normally wouldn't put in there.
Like, let's try that because this is like, Second 24 of the video.
We've had six sentences said already.
We have the context and setting placed I think people are wondering what's happening next So I can I can afford that extra beat and people aren't gonna flick their thumb Like that was the language he was talking on there and so I appreciated the hell out of that like every single frame of every single video like what has to go where to keep people on there and not from clicking off Yeah,
that's how you think about your short your short your short videos that you make yes, because they didn't pick my video The videos 99.9% of the people see it in their shorts feed it popped up every single person is a gun owner on YouTube and TikTok and the trigger is their thumb Yeah, or is the screen.
Yeah, and the thing pulling it is their thumb and all they got to do that's their closing speed Right, what is your background you have circled a comment on there a comment a YouTube comment.
The First iPhone Leap In Tech00:13:57
Oh, no, that's like an old tweet.
Oh, okay But like that's their closing that's about One to two frames out of 24.
Boop.
Right.
Boop.
Boop.
Right.
So they are, every time you go on there, every single person has a gun in your face.
And they're like, we're ready to pull it.
Oh, yeah.
And my job is to not make them pull it until the video is played and I'm out of the screen.
Right.
So that's different than this.
Right.
I don't ever.
With a podcast, bro, we said it's just like you do it.
Right.
That's why I really like this.
Like, it's just like we literally.
For people listening out there, we sat down.
We just sat down.
Fucking.
We just started.
That's it.
You know, there's nothing to it.
Dude, do you, do you, how old are you?
29.
29.
Do you remember when the first iPhone came out?
Yes.
Did you get the first one?
No.
Dude, that was like, there's never been anything like when that first iPhone came out.
Like going back to what you're talking about, like when you were thinking about, like we were talking about Steve Jobs taking mushrooms or whatever and like creating crazy shit.
Like that moment when that, I remember when my buddy came.
Bought that first Iphone and I was like looking at it, holding it, it was just like this is a huge, like giant leap in technology, like there's never been anything even close to this before there's.
No, it was the first thing with a touch screen ever, I think.
Now did you hold it?
I don't know if you remember these details, but did you hold it like at all, like when you were first looking at it, where you just had it like that and you didn't unlock it and you just looked at it.
Yeah, oh yeah, I mean it's, it's a work of art, The first one, especially.
Like, the first one was just like, I mean, even though it was so fucking slow and like you could barely use the internet, it took like 10 minutes to boot up a webpage.
And like, just like looking at the text messaging and what the text looked like, because I went from a Razer to that first fucking iPhone.
Shout out to the Razor family.
Wow.
Yeah.
Shout out to the Razors.
No E on that word.
That was an era.
I had plenty of Razors and Nokia brick phones.
Yeah.
Oh, man.
Those things never died.
No.
The Nokias, that was the one thing.
They were horrible, but you could throw that shit against the wall.
They brought it back, actually.
Did they really?
Yeah, and it has like a seven-day battery life or some shit on it.
Yeah, that sounds bad.
It's fucking uncharged like one week.
My aunt had one, I think, for 11 years.
Yeah.
Wow.
Fucking thing.
She never charged it once.
Probably not.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sitting there playing snake.
Yeah.
But yeah, I know what you're saying.
And they also had those customizable faceplates on there.
You could get gold faceplates.
Remember, you could get different covers for your phone?
I don't remember that.
The Nokia phones?
Oh, the Nokia phones.
The Nokia ones, yeah.
I don't remember that.
Really?
No.
Oh, you could get all kinds of.
Oh, no, I do remember that.
Yeah, because you would take.
You're talking about where it would go over the keypad, the plastic shell.
Yeah.
Yeah, that was.
Or sidekicks.
He had sidekicks.
I had a sidekick, too.
That was fire.
What was the other one?
The Envy or whatever?
Was it the thing that would slide out that Verizon made?
I don't know.
I didn't have that one.
I had the T Mobile the other side in case.
I think I know what you're talking about, though.
But, like, you're talking about slow and stuff and clunky.
Oh, yeah.
Like, you know, it was that, but still, like, what were people working with at the time?
Yeah.
They're working with a fucking, like, BlackBerry 2, right?
Like, they're working with a Razer.
Like, that shit, that internet basically went while it's, like, booting up.
What's that?
There's, like, a term for that.
People talk about sometimes the stagnation of tech.
You heard that term before?
Yeah, I know what you're talking about.
They talk about it stagnating.
Like, there hasn't been any crazy innovation in tech.
Yeah.
Since that first, like that first Iphone came out and that was like blew everyone down.
That's gonna bother me what the exact it is.
Something like that.
Try, try looking that up, Austin.
That just google.
Stagnation.
Google, that term.
It's more the.
The which law is it that's about exponential technology?
Is that more?
Moore's law is the one that says, like things, come back to center, come back to earth, but what's the one that says technology increases at an exponential pace?
Oh, that's so bad that I can't remember that, Because they've been trying to argue that we're finally, you know, they're always arguing new normal with stuff.
Oh, we're finally reaching the point where we can't go at exponential anymore.
Stagnation just means slower.
Well, yeah, I know it's stagnation.
Can you pull up technological stagnation?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Let's see.
Click that drop down.
See what it says.
We've made advancements, but the basic fabric of life remains broadly the same.
The lack of technical revolution has been labeled the great tech stagnation.
Some have gone as far as suggesting that.
All the big world-changing tech has been made.
The low-hanging fruit has been picked.
That might be the actual term.
Yeah.
I just, in my head, I can't.
The stagnation of tech.
I've heard that before.
What's the law?
Andy, I don't know if you can find that.
It's like, if you type in, like, tech law of innovation, it's going to piss me off.
It's one of, is it Newton's?
It's not Newton's.
Maybe it's Moore's.
It's Newton or Moore's, I feel like.
Newton's law or Moore's law.
But, yeah, it says, like, technology always increases.
That exponential pace, and eventually it has to not do that anymore.
Just like level off?
Yeah.
And so there's been people arguing that, like, oh, it's starting to happen and level off.
Because every iPhone is essentially the same fucking thing with like a little bit of an update, right?
I mean, like the cameras are different, or they say it's lighter or faster, whatever it is.
But like.
What about behind the scenes though?
Not just iPhones.
I don't know.
Like, what do you mean behind the scenes?
You mean like non consumer?
Type stuff like right now, not consumer.
I mean, like, we don't have self driving cars on the road, right?
The first car that successfully did a decent job self driving was in 2006.
We just don't know that.
I mean, we know it, but we don't have it because why?
Because Washington, D.C. needs two trillion miles of data before they're going to let one pen stroke actually let something legitimately on the road without someone behind a wheel, which, in a way, some of that I guess.
You could say Tesla was kind of like another kind of like an iPhone moment in history and like technological history.
Agreed.
Agreed.
For sure.
I mean, today we're driving over here into Tesla.
I'm looking at the gas prices.
It's like five bucks.
Right.
You don't give a fuck about that.
No, I didn't want to spend the gas money to drive to Tampa.
You're good.
Take the wife's Tesla.
But yeah, no, I don't know.
I don't know.
There's like, I feel like there's got to be something else, like another kind of like giant leap that this was.
I mean, it hasn't happened.
And when did the first iPhone come out?
Like 2007.
2007?
Yeah.
Yeah, it's been a minute.
Jesus Christ.
Now, I will say, we have come a long way from that first iPhone, but I agree with you.
Since the XR, the iPhone innovation seems to be more stagnant.
Part of that's a company thing, though, too.
Apple has enough money to buy 78 countries, enough cash flow.
But one call that I had wrong, I was young when I made it.
I was like a teenager.
But when Steve Jobs died, I'm like, the innovation just died.
I'm like, all right, let's give them a couple years.
Let's see.
And then a couple years later, they hadn't innovated anything.
And I'm like, oh, they're going to be dead.
They're going to be dead in like five years.
Like they're going to, because that's what happens slowly and then all of a sudden.
Now they had enough cash to be able to keep buying innovation.
Right.
But like think about new, like Steve Jobs made things we didn't know we need.
He said, I'm going to put your phone, your music, and your internet all in your pocket.
Right.
Boom.
Right.
I'm going to put.
Fuck a laptop, you can, and a notepad, you're gonna walk around with a tablet.
And it's gonna be touch screen and do all this crazy shit just like a computer.
I'm gonna put that there.
There hasn't been anything like that since then.
No.
They've made a watch.
They did make a watch.
But it's a watch.
It's just this on the fuck on your wrist, basically.
That's it.
And it's a watch.
Right.
That's been done before.
Right.
You know what I mean?
Right.
So I give them a lot of credit from a business perspective.
They found a way to keep making the products, even if it's more stagnant recently.
They keep making them look better.
They still have the best products on the market.
I'm a Mac guy.
I have no plans of leaving that.
But yeah, like you don't have, you don't replace Steve Jobs.
No, he won't.
You don't replace Elon Musk, you know?
Definitely not.
So I think people, like when I study Steve, I'm like, well, if we can pick out the best parts of him, how he looked at the world, maybe people in whatever they do, because I'm not, you know, I'm not out here building a tech company or anything, but I'm like, maybe there's good ways to integrate that.
And when I read his beliefs in simplicity, and like I love marketing, as we've talked about, like I'd go back and I'd look at their ads, which were always genius.
And I'm like, oh, that's it.
Where there could be 10 words, he made two.
Yeah.
Right?
Yeah.
Where there could be three colors, he said one with black text.
Right?
Like he made you feel and think something by taking away.
Right?
And so he and Johnny Ive, like you talked about, I asked you.
Johnny Ive, who is that?
Is that the guy with the accent?
Yeah.
The Australian accent or whatever?
Or was it British?
I think he's British, I believe.
Okay.
But yeah, Johnny Ive, Johnny Ive, in my opinion, is the greatest industrial designer to ever live.
He was the CDO, chief design officer of Apple.
And the reason I asked you, like, if you just looked at it in your hand was because that's what they did.
Like, they sat there and they pissed off every engineer in the building because they're like, no, it has to look this way.
It needs to be an infinity screen.
Like, I have a case on my phone.
They'd probably have a heart attack seeing that.
That's because they're crazy, but I'm not going to not have a case on this investment.
But like still, like I try to keep my case one of the ones that you can barely see it's around because I like the art of it.
But they sat there like, you know, they still had to have the home button then, but the rest of it, they wanted to be an infinity pool.
And then when Steve saw that a company in Delaware had invented, this also came up earlier when you and I were talking, but had invented this patent that allows just the slightest delay of the eye when you slide across on your home screen on Apple, he's like, well, we got to buy them.
Because we have to do that, like that's how it has to be.
So he bought the company you know, like there was such a specific way.
Yeah, and he would not.
It drove some people nuts, but the people like his marketing company that advised them.
I forget what it was called, maybe like something in Chow, like that guy.
Ken Seagal wrote a book about it that a third grader could read, which is very apropos, called like simplicity is whatever right, just about his experiences with Steve and like everything they did was just Less.
How do we do less?
And it's the hardest thing to do.
Yeah, I mean, the CEO of Apple now, he's doing a job, right?
He's definitely fulfilling obligations.
But Steve wasn't treating it like that at all.
He was treating it like that was his child.
That was him himself.
Did you hear the story about him looking at one of the first iPhones?
Maybe it was the first one.
And he was on Google's website on the phone.
And he was like 1 a.m., late at night.
I forget what it was.
It was like a ridiculous hour.
And he was looking at Google and he was like, he called the owner of Google or one of the CEOs of Google and he's like, hey, I think the O, the shade of the red in the O is a little bit off on the iPhone.
Can you double check?
I have heard that.
That's just insane.
Yeah.
That's how he thought.
You got to be fucking crazy.
That's how he thought.
And it was like, you do got to be crazy, but also, like, if you're just wired that way, you know, and some of this stuff, like, people out there, when you read it, maybe a lot of people don't on some things, but a lot of you, You think about some of this stuff, you just don't realize it.
Like, I never realized how I thought about text, for example, like how text looks.
I was always very exact about that when I would do something.
That was probably another sign I was a creative person and just didn't pay attention.
But, like, I'd always be like, no, no, why does that T have the bar at the bottom?
And I never thought about what sans serif and serif was, which I always get them mixed up.
But one is where it's continuous, meaning, like, if you have an F, it's just the lines.
The other is where it'll have like a design on the back end of the lines, like another line.
You know what I mean?
Like a little swirly at the end?
Yeah.
Like a little like whoopie whoop?
Just something that makes it not continuous.
So they add, right?
So like Apple's text.
See this right here?
See the A up on the screen on N?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
See the bottom of the A?
How it has bars?
The little line, right.
That's either, I think that's serif, right?
Right.
And then sans, yeah, that would make sense.
Sans is without, right?
In Latin.
I don't know.
But sans serif is like Apple's text where it's just the A.
And like shit like that, he studied that stuff.
He actually knew it.
I never knew that.
Fucking crazy, dude.
But.
The stuff you never pay attention to.
Yeah.
Like, then I'd be like, oh, that's why I always would use this text on Snapchat instead of.
Serif Fonts And Apple Text00:04:22
Right.
Yes, exactly.
That's it.
Yep.
If people can see this right now, if you're listening.
Yeah.
Google sans serif and serif.
But yeah, like, he thought all those details.
Mm-hmm.
And I don't know.
Maybe that's, like, part of the analytical thing, too.
So, and maybe that's why.
Do you think he was super analytical or do you think he was just really?
He was a mix.
He was very artistic, and he would deny analytics when it came to the final vision.
So, if someone said to him, Steve, the data says the people don't want that wave screen, he'd say, fuck what they want.
I know what they want.
Right?
I do that too with things.
Oh, the data says people don't want this kind of music on a clip.
And I'm like, fuck what they want.
I know that hits.
This is what I want.
Right.
Then it hits.
Right?
Right.
So, it's like a yin and a yang.
Like, yeah, it's hard.
You probably.
Definitely get it wrong sometimes.
And he definitely got it wrong sometimes.
But like when you're right, I mean, conviction in the eyes of or in the face of pushback is very, very difficult.
She was good at that.
What do you think he would say if he was live today about all the criticism about slaves building his phones and mining the fucking minerals for his phones in China?
I think I feel like he would have done something about that.
Yeah, well, I think he would have been.
I think he would have been fired as CEO because I think he would have been, he would have said something way too blunt.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
He wouldn't survive in this, in this culture where we're living in right now.
For better or worse.
And trust me, for sometimes it was for worse because he really didn't give a fuck.
Right.
He had flaws, but like.
Yeah, people say he was ruthless.
He would tell you what he thought, you know, and like think about that.
And he died in 2011.
Front end of Twitter culture, right?
Like.
Some people think he's still alive.
Some people think he's, how many people think he's still alive?
I saw Instagram posted it.
I think I sent it to you.
It's a bad start.
Whereas in Egypt, the guy sitting at a coffee shop in Egypt, they said it was Steve Jobs.
I've seen that's a famous picture.
Oh, is it?
Yeah, I still think Tupac might be alive.
That's my little rabbit hole one.
But yeah, I mean, he probably wouldn't have lasted in this environment.
And that's more of a compliment.
There's certainly some detraction, I'd say, to that.
Because he really, like, he'd say he was hard to work for.
But.
His style apparently was he wanted to rip you, like in ways that every HR person in America would have a heart attack today.
But like he expected you to do that back to him.
So, like the people who would be like, you know what, Steve, I'll see your insult and raise you this one.
He'd be like, great.
Like, you know, the movie Ted, where he's Teddy Bear with Mark Wahlberg.
Yeah.
Where he's trying to get fired by the guy, and the guy's like, You fucked an employee in the back of the store.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And you did it on top of a frosted flakes.
And he's like, and I raw dogged her.
And he's like, we need more of that.
You're promoted.
Yeah, yeah.
That's kind of an exaggerated version, but that's the way I've read it.
I didn't know the guy, but that seems to be.
Right, right.
Kind of how he was.
Hmm.
I don't know.
You think they're ever going to start making these things in America, though?
It's a great point you bring up.
I mean,.
They would only cost like $12,000.
That's the problem.
Someone said to me, though, that I don't know who said this to me, so I also don't remember how credible this could be, but someone was saying to me that there are ways to do this that A, aren't in China, and B, are not slave labor, but it's other countries over there, maybe like Cambodia, I don't know, like something like that, where it's very cheap.
It's still not ethically the greatest, but the distance that that cheap labor will go for those workers in that in those economies is farther than where it's going now Yes, it's also not an authoritarian regime right like that.
Favorite Place Is Guangzhou China00:05:37
Don't talk about that.
This is favorite country is China.
Yeah, that's your favorite country.
No, it's his favorite place he's ever been.
He's been to China.
He says there's nothing bad he could say about it.
You've been to China.
Yeah, when'd you go?
A long time probably 10 years ago.
Where'd you where'd you go in China?
Stick in Guangzhou.
Went to Hong Kong for a little while.
Is that Guangzhou is like southeast.
Yeah, that's where they make all the That's where they make all, I think that's like the hardware city.
I could be wrong about that.
Really?
Yeah.
I remember that.
Did you stay in like a, you stayed in like a six by six box, right?
You stayed in a super small place.
Yeah, I mean, it's like New York, bro.
It's like everyone's apartments, like, it was like New York.
China was like New York.
Yeah, I don't know how much I like that.
It's like a Chinese version of New York.
It's like, it's just all China people and tall buildings.
Nobody has a house, you know?
Oh, okay.
All right.
I see what you're saying.
In that aspect.
Yeah.
It's just tiny apartments.
How many people are in that city?
Fuck, I don't know.
Can we look that one up?
Tons.
What's the name of the city again?
Population Guangzhou.
G-U-A-N-Z-H-O.
That's one of the places.
I don't know if that's where Foxconn is.
I don't think so.
Is there only one Foxconn?
As far as I know.
G-U-A-N.
Maybe another G and then like Z-H-O.
But it's on the southeast coast there.
And that's where.
Pull up on a map.
I can't even tell.
That was in the one autobiography.
Or not autobiography.
That was in.
I think Walter Isaacson's biography, where he talked about Steve visiting there.
Really?
And like some of the deals they made.
But there's, you know, to your point, there's the problem with like slave labor.
I don't even know if it's all in China.
It might be in other places too.
I'm not sure about that.
It's a big country.
Yeah, it's a big country.
You didn't see any suicide nets when you were there?
Yeah, that's the other one.
Yeah, that's it.
Yeah, yeah.
13 million.
Almost 14 million.
And New York's what, like seven in Manhattan?
Yeah, probably.
Yeah, it's a big city, man.
A lot of people.
A lot of fucking people.
Population of Manhattan.
That's the thing they got going for them over there.
They got a lot of people.
Lots of people.
Demographics are important.
Food was really important.
What did they do about you can't have what?
You can't have daughters now?
Or you can only have one daughter?
What is the rule?
Well, that was 1.6 million in Manhattan?
Wait, what?
Holy shit.
Wait, it's 7 million in all of New York City?
So all the boroughs put together?
No way.
Trying to snap it's that low now, try to snap in, bro.
I might have just sounded like a moron, I wasn't trying to.
All of New York 8.4, okay, yeah.
See that, I never thought about that, but that's how big is Guangzhou compared to Manhattan.
What if it was the same size?
I don't know, it's probably not, it's probably like the size of New York, it's smaller than Manhattan, it's half the size.
I mean, Manhattan's because that includes all five, so it's Manhattan.
Staten Island down south, which a lot of people, that's like kind of like the island borough, Bronx, Brooklyn, Queens.
I would have thought it was more, but I guess I always looked at that wrong.
I just sound like a fucking moron, but.
What is the size of.
Just pull it up on the map.
Well, Manhattan's, I think it's like the Seven Mile Island, right?
Seven Mile?
Maybe I'm wrong about that, too.
I don't know.
Can you find out the square?
What do you look for?
Square mileage of Miami?
Or not Miami.
What the fuck?
Miami's square mileage is 35 miles.
We looked that up one time.
Really?
Yeah.
Like the square.
You're a huge encyclopedia.
You're a huge encyclopedia.
With the unit.
Really?
No, we looked that up on a podcast.
What's the square mileage of Manhattan?
And then find out the square mileage of.
All in New York, maybe?
Guangzhou.
Guangzhou.
Yeah.
That's going to be interesting.
Watch it be like two miles and one.
22 square miles is Manhattan.
Is Manhattan.
So think about that.
That means greater New York City, which includes all the boroughs, is a lot bigger than Miami.
Way bigger.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because that's already 22, just Manhattan.
Double, triple the size.
And I mean, Staten Island is enormous in and of itself.
Right, right.
But then what's Guangzhou square mileage?
I'm ready to go back.
He loves fucking China.
I don't think I'm allowed in China at this point.
I'm definitely not allowed in Russia, I'll tell you that.
That's not happening.
I love this picture, by the way.
It's an all time.
Oh, yeah.
All time picture.
2,800.
Holy shit.
Pull up the map.
Pull up the map.
Well, wait a second.
That's a province.
Well, no.
The province is the opposite of what I think it would be.
Oh, that's big, bro.
Yeah, that's huge.
Can you go back for one second, Andy?
Just where that said Austin.
You see, yeah.
It's Austin.
Austin.
I've been calling you Andy this whole time.
I owe you a 30 minute.
I did just meet you like right before, but that's still like, that's disgusting.
I'm sorry.
I won't forget that now.
Pig.
But yeah, so why does it say province?
Oh, yeah.
See, the province has a K at the end.
I didn't see that.
So the province is like the entire region.
So that's 68,000 miles up into the fucking mountains and stuff.
Yeah, so that doesn't count.
But still, it has a K at the end.
2870.
I just said Miami's 35.
That's fucking nuts, isn't it?
So that's actually not that crazy that it has a 13 million population.
It's still a lot.
But I bet you most of that is in one area.
Probably.
Like New York, you know?
Probably.
Austin Province Naming Confusion00:16:00
Yeah, because I wonder if, like,.
Is that where Foxconn is?
What province is Foxconn?
What the hell is Foxconn?
That's the factory they make the iPhones in.
Yeah, where they got the nuts.
The suicide nuts.
Oh, word.
Yeah.
Yeah, Danny sent me that video.
I started telling him all this shit about China.
We had this guy on the podcast and started telling us all this crazy shit about China.
Who was that?
It was Matt.
Oh, it was Matt.
It's like, dude, if you fucking commit any kind of fraud, it's death in China.
Yeah.
Oh, it's.
Look, I think people forget.
And don't get me wrong.
We should always be trying to make the system better.
And I am definitely a hypocrite because I complain about a lot of shit.
But, God damn, is it a lot better here than pretty much anywhere else?
Yeah.
And we can still, again, say, well, it's fucked up that we do this or do that.
But the alternative, I mean.
Some of these places.
You know, I had this guy on here a couple weeks ago.
He was talking about.
We started talking about the Andrew Bustamante episode.
Love that guy.
He's great.
I started questioning him about Julian Assange.
And I was like, I was like, what do you think about him?
Like, what do you think about his whole story?
And then he started talking about Snowden.
And he's like, do you think what he did was wrong?
I'm like, what's your view?
And he's like, obviously, he thought what he did was wrong.
But then he started talking about like the levels of civilization.
He's like, he started explaining to me.
And it actually made me kind of like.
Take his position on it.
Yeah.
Can you say what this?
I listen to all three of his podcasts, but can you explain this again?
I don't remember.
Yeah.
So, what he was explaining, he's like, basically, I was like, don't you think that it's right?
Julian Assange was just basically exposing the most fucked up secrets that should be exposed to create more of a balance in the world, right?
If someone's committing such a fucked up atrocity and hiding it, what is the harm in exposing it to make them better and make them start being more accountable for their actions to create more of a balance across nations?
Yes, yes.
And he goes, No.
I'm like, Why?
He's like, And then he said, Do you have kids?
And I'm like, Yeah, of course, I have kids.
He's like, Well, do you tell your kids everything that you do?
And I'm like, I'm like, Okay, I kind of see where you're going with that.
I remember this now.
And then he's like, He started explaining the hierarchy or the pyramid of a state, the formation of a state.
He's like, If we're all free roamers, it's like, I could club you over the head, take your wife, and there's nothing you can do about it.
But if we form a tribe, now you're protected by your tribe.
So, we can go out and we can kill the food, and the wives could stay home and pick the berries.
And if somebody comes in and tries to steal one of our wives, you have the power of the tribe to protect us and take care of each other.
And then he's like, Once you get above the tribe, you have the creation of the state.
And he's like, When you have that, you know, you had it like a pyramid, right?
He called it a pyramid, yeah.
And he started to explain it, and it made a lot of sense.
He's like, And then the other.
Point he made, which I don't know if this is true or not, because I know there's a lot of like he said, she said, and there's a lot of it's hard to know the truth.
But he said that Julian Assange wasn't fair with the shit that he exposed.
He said he only exposed American shit.
Yeah.
If he would have exposed Chinese and Russian shit just as much as he exposed American shit, it wouldn't be, he maybe not, he might not have that same position on Julian Assange, that same view on him.
But he was only anti American.
People should turn off this podcast real quick and go listen to that latest one you did with him.
Yeah, because that was an unbelievable podcast.
The last one you just did on like Ukraine and all that.
Yeah, yeah.
Where this conversation happened.
That podcast, like, I was thinking about that one a lot.
And I didn't understand the word you were saying, like the levels of society.
But once you started explaining that, this was one of the key moments of the podcast where I was like, whoa.
His point was like, right now, everyone is like, we're losing our freedoms.
We're losing our freedoms.
And we don't have freedom of speech.
We don't have this freedom.
To do that, we're wearing our masks, we're taking my freedoms.
And, you know, he's like, You have to, the only people that are truly free is that tribe on that island and off the coast of Africa that have nothing but spears.
And he's like, You have to, if you want to be a part and participate in this community that we've created, you have to be okay with giving up freedoms.
You know what his argument was?
It was the ultimate swallow the pill argument.
Like, that's how I pictured it because it was a galaxy brain argument.
That maybe they came up at the CIA headquarters and he very well retweeted it himself there.
I don't know.
But I like how that guy talks.
I appreciate how blunt he is.
I mean, he really says a lot of shit on your podcast that, similarly to Jim, from his perspective and whatever, I'm like, wow.
Like, I can't believe he's saying that.
But that one sent me spinning because it's the best.
And I could see, like, let's assume.
He is speaking for the good people at the CIA or in the government, right?
And I always try to use this example, but you have to remember that these agencies, for every 10 people who are in the room, nine of them might be great people who are like there for the right reasons, good people, all about freedom of America, trying to do their job to protect our interests.
Even if once in a while, like they overstep something, they don't think of it that way and they're not going after domestic people, you know, and they're trying to protect, like their intentions are good.
But if you have one bad person out of those 10, That's all it takes.
You know, like, oh, now we're allowed to do this.
We're going to take it a mile farther, which is whatever Snowden talked about.
And that's why I disagree with a lot of Andrew's overall opinions on guys like Snowden and Assange.
However, I appreciate that he doesn't.
There was one argument that's the usual lazy argument with Snowden.
Like, he did the right thing the wrong way.
I've heard that one before.
But the rest of it, he makes you think because he's putting the ball in your court and saying, well, which one do you want?
Like you can't and and I guess the point is he tells you Unfortunately, there's there's nothing that exists that is a hundred percent and actually in the scope of the world.
He's right about that.
It's like There's good and there's bad You're never gonna have a perfect situation.
So he's saying are you willing to give up a couple of these things which immediately when you say are you willing to give up bunch of people out there go you will not affringe all my rights exactly exactly right away like fuck this deep state shit.
Yeah And I don't know why I do that in a Southern accent, but it's always funnier that way.
Because they all have Southern accents.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But, like, you know, they immediately go to that.
But his intent with that, like you just laid out what he said on Assange, he is statistically right that Assange's stories more target are the ire is the United States government.
Now, here's the double edge of that.
On the one hand, You want to be honest to improve, right?
You can say, hey, we're great.
This is a great place.
Democracy, freedom, America, we love it.
But we want to fix some things, too.
We don't do everything right.
So how do you do that?
You draw attention to it.
How do you draw attention to it?
A guy like Julian Assange exists and draws attention to it.
At the CIA, you recognize that all these other countries around the world, they don't have these out-of-bounds lines to play.
No.
So who are you trying to protect the American people against every day?
trying to protect them against China, against Russia, name the big countries, right, who don't have these rights.
And you know that if China doesn't like something that's said, they just kill you.
And you're pissed off because China, just using that example, they're the biggest one, communist government doesn't have freedom of speech, doesn't have all this shit.
What do they do?
They use their money and their influence to take advantage of the fact that we do.
So we can share this stuff.
And so then it puts the focus on us and makes us divide from within.
rather than keeping the focus on them and killing people for stealing a chocolate bar or not preventing or not allowing people to say the words Houston Rockets on social media because Daryl Morey said something about Hong Kong.
Right.
Right.
So now the focus comes on the American citizens are online talking about America.
And again, for the right reasons.
We want to improve things that are bad.
But then the CIA or these other places realize that then the focus is off the target.
And they want to get the focus back on the target.
And they just want people to shut the fuck up and know that like, hey, we're going to fix a few of these things, even if they're not, which is the danger, right?
Like, it took 11 years before Edward Snowden was the guy who came out and said something.
No one ever said anything.
They violated the Constitution.
Right.
Thanks to Dick Cheney for like 11 years.
The Patriot Act?
Yes.
Started with that, went to stellar wind, boom, And finally someone said, okay, we're going to talk about this, right?
And so that's why like his side note, his argument about he did the right thing the wrong way.
Number one, I'll bet there were at least a couple people who brought that up before the right way.
You never heard from them.
Maybe they were never heard from again.
True.
I also don't see how that gives countries like Russia or China an advantage over us or how it puts us in danger to those countries by saying that the U.S. government's spying on its own people.
He's saying that by holding our government to a way higher standard than we hold theirs, because it's here, it's on our turf, it's our people, we're all about optimism, freedom, democracy.
By doing that, You are taking away our ability to keep our eye on the prize and do our job and operate in a way that, by the way, includes fucking up elections and putting other people in office.
Like the same shit we accuse people of doing here, which they do interfere in our election process through like the internet and things like that.
Like as far as Russia and China will put out all kinds of social media information to get people talking.
Like this is backed by data.
Renee, the rest has been on every podcast in the world talking about it.
Like we act like.
Oh, they're the only ones doing that.
But we do that too.
And when we're doing it, this is where good and evil, it's like, well, what is good and evil?
Is it good?
You know, if we stop like some crazy dictator from going into power, that's supposed to be good, right?
But what is, what if we're not good?
It's like, it gets really complicated.
And so what he's saying is, if you make us play to such a higher standard in the intelligence universe, the underground, like spooky stuff.
We're going to lose to these guys because they don't have to play by those rules.
Right.
And as much as I disagree with the idea, because I'm very glad Edward Snowden did.
Very much a brilliant reporting, by the way, by Glenn Greenwald and Laura Portras and everything.
I love that we got that.
Wish we did more with it as a people.
Kind of forgot about it.
But, you know, it's hard for me to not also understand where he's coming from with that.
You know, and so I get here and i'm like, and this happens all the time with me, it probably drives some people nuts when they listen to the podcast.
And we have issues like this.
Like I see it both ways.
I really do like that's my curse in life, like I don't really it can be both ways.
It can both things can be true, like you said yeah yeah, but that was you getting him to lay that out.
That was like some of the best podcast content i've ever heard, because I was like I was walking my dog and I didn't realize we were like seven miles into the walk.
I didn't even know where the I was and i'm just like thinking about, i'm like oh, I gotta go Back, but it was just like you have to give it to him.
He laid out a very difficult which pill you taking scenario.
Doesn't mean he's right, but I also couldn't definitively say he's all wrong.
What was the project Solar Wind, or what was it called?
Solar Wind?
Stellar Wind.
What was that one?
So fucked up, man.
Stellar Wind was essentially I don't know, is it a project or a code?
I don't know what the term is, but it's the thing that.
Snowden exposed.
So after the Patriot Act, I think Stellar Wind, now I'm going to forget it on camera here, but I think Stellar Wind was the one where.
Warlist surveillance programs on the doors to be booked.
Exactly, exactly.
So this was Dick Cheney's baby, of course.
Right.
And it allowed them to basically spy on anyone at will.
So all these things we have sitting in front of us, even when it's off, I think unless it's powered down.
Still a hot mic.
I can hear everything we say right now.
I mean, I'm fucked.
I don't know about you.
I am fucked.
But, you know, there's a lot of people out there who say, I don't give a fuck what they have because I'm not doing anything wrong.
I hear you.
I think the same way, even if I say fucked up shit sometimes and throw out crazy ideas when I'm high.
But by and large, everyone's going to say something wrong on there.
It's just like in the future, like what could be done with that?
What could be taken?
We see context.
How much shit gets taken out of context?
What happens when, you know, the Orwellian world, if that were ever a thing, actually happens?
Right.
Is that used?
Do you want them having that power?
Do you care that technically, and I say the word technically there because I'm looking at it like maybe from Bustamante's point of view, technically we're infringing on your constitutional rights completely.
But we're not doing anything with it.
We're only going after the goddamn terrorists.
That's what he said.
Now watch this drive.
That's funny.
Can we put that clip in the corner?
Let's play that real quick.
Find the George W. Bush interview about terrorism on the golf course.
That is the best thing ever.
I do not blame that administration on Dick Cheney.
However, George Bush did hire him.
I will forever say, though, George Bush, dark as this is, was funny as fuck.
I don't know that he tried to be, but he was humorous.
Just looking at him and listening to him talk, watching him.
His facial expression, the way he moved his mouth and his eyes.
Yeah.
We will find you.
We will kill you.
If you're not with us, you're with the terrorists.
The best is now watch this drive.
The best is the mission accomplished picture bomb.
We're done, fellas.
20 years later.
Oh my God.
What an administration.
Wait till you watch that fucking 9 11 documentary I sent you, dude.
Yeah, yeah, you keep telling me I got to watch that.
Yeah, this is it.
This is it.
Yes.
Press play.
You might have to fast forward a little bit.
Absolutely fantastic.
You got to press play.
There you go.
If you're harboring terrorists, there you go.
Skip.
You're either with us or against us.
Yeah.
Misleading 9/11 Mission Accomplished00:17:42
How long is this?
Oh, it's a minute.
Where is this at?
I don't know.
That's a good question.
No, it's not in Florida.
Oh, it's already funny.
Is that a Delaware?
Delaware, the place you golfed at.
Delaware?
Not him.
Here it is.
Look at the hands.
Are there cue cards up back there?
I think there are.
Well, there's just a random press conference on the ninth hole.
Watch this.
I've seen it.
He's ad libbing.
I call upon all nations to do everything they can to stop these terrorist killers.
Thank you.
Now watch this drive.
Holy shit.
I've got to see the drive now.
Oh, that is.
Yeah, they.
There's like a video cut where they cut right through the air.
He fucking pipes this thing right down the fair.
Woo!
Look at a finish.
Oh, he's reaching for the maybe mulligan.
He's reloading.
He's reloading.
Sitting back, not giving a fuck in the world.
Just imagine.
That's a nice fucking golf course.
Look at that.
Yeah, where is that?
Does it say in the description?
I wonder what golf course, though.
It's in Iraq.
Yeah, golf course in Iraq.
No, it's not gonna be.
I don't know where that was, but still, like, that's typical Bush, man.
I don't know.
He was a soundbite everywhere.
He's in a J. Cole song, too.
Is he?
At the drop.
Which song is that?
Where he's like, I'll tell you what.
Fool me once.
Shame on me.
Fool me twice.
Shame on you.
He does have some of the best fucking quotes of all time.
What was.
And then the Kanye West while he was in office.
George Bush hates black people.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
And he's just like Kanye staring at the screen.
And Mike Myers is like, oh, what the fuck?
Operation Keno.
Oh, my God.
Wasn't that during SNL or something?
I don't know.
It was some live feed or something.
It was like a live feed or something.
Could you imagine Bush in the social media era?
I mean, we saw it with Trump and what that was.
I mean, we're seeing it with Biden again.
But, like, imagine that guy.
With that situation.
Oh, my God.
Because it was, the stakes were so insane when that all happened.
Oh, yeah.
The memes would have been awesome.
Yeah.
I wish I was like paying attention to shit back then.
Yeah.
You know?
I was really young.
I wonder what it was like.
Like, do you think there was a lot of people aware of all the bullshit going on?
Like, nowadays, when you see shit happen, like this Russia Ukraine thing going on, there's so many different views.
There's not one narrative.
There's fucking like 14 narratives about this whole thing.
This whole conflict going on.
I wonder if it was like that in the pre social media days, like during 9 11 and the war on terror.
Like, was there people actively thinking, like, wow, this could have been an inside job?
You know, this could be all a fucking, you know.
There were a few people.
Yeah, another Pearl Barn out there for everybody to see.
There were some.
Because people, you can't share ideas.
Ideas can't go as viral as they do now.
No.
I mean, it didn't.
The internet was www.whateverthefuck.com at the time.
You know, like there was, it was like the dial up speed.
So it wasn't like that, but.
Yeah, I know there were some people right away.
I mean, just statistically, there had to be.
It's just, I can't imagine dealing with that in the social media era.
And like, you talk about what the narratives were comparing to what we're seeing outside right now with Russia, Ukraine.
I mean, look at how many senators and congressmen supported the war, not the war in Afghanistan, which even today, I could say like, yeah, you had to go, the Taliban was harboring these guys.
Like, you had to go over there.
The war in Iraq, though?
Look at all the people who voted for that.
This was a bipartisan thing.
I don't remember the exact numbers, but it was skewed.
Right.
And there may be some, like, typical, stereotypical politicians who are still in office today who suck, but there were a few, even among the ones who suck, who actually did vote against that.
And I will give them credit for that.
Maybe they did it for the wrong reasons, but they did.
They voted against it, yeah.
Because, like, you know, David Satter and I were talking about this and the whole WMD thing.
And he's like, well, you know, the Israeli and Russian intelligence both thought there were WMD there, too.
And I'm like, yeah, but.
Hindsight's 20-20, but our intelligence, like we knew it was bullshit.
We knew it was like a no percent chance.
They talked about Iraq like the night of 9-11.
They're like, well, Iraq definitely had something to do with this.
And the thing is, like Trump said more stupid shit than you could ever count on the campaign trail in 2015, 2016.
There were a couple things he said that were kind of inarguable, though.
And it was funny, too, because he's just a comedic kind of guy.
But like he said, I remember this line, he would repeat this over and over.
All his other lines, but he would say, Saddam Hussein, bad guy, bad guy, killed terrorists, bad guy, killed terrorists.
You know, we shouldn't have done that.
And it is true.
Saddam was an awful human being.
He was a genocidal maniac, right?
And this is the horrible reality.
We can relate this to what's going on right now, too, by the way, but this is the horrible reality.
Unfortunately, there are some really bad people in the world, and you can't technically police all of them at all times.
Like what happens within someone's borders.
Sometimes like the will of the people, just like communism eventually fell, like David was saying, it was like 15% of the Soviet Union society that was responsible for that happening.
That's all it took.
Sometimes the will of the people, even in a small percentage for good, has to rise up to stop like the absolute epitome of evil, whatever that evil is.
Right.
And like with Saddam, he wasn't friends with Al Qaeda.
In fact, he didn't like them.
Right.
He killed them.
Right.
Right.
So it had nothing to do with 9-11.
It was a money thing, for sure.
I mean, everything's money, let's be honest.
But, you know, it was, you talk about, like, the Dwight Eisenhower speech on the military-industrial complex.
I mean, there you go.
That's what it was.
And, like, I mean, did you see the movie Vice?
Adam McKay did it?
No.
A few years ago?
No.
I heard about it.
Yeah.
Now, obviously, anytime someone really biased does something, people discredit him, whatever.
Right.
So I guess Adam McKay is, like, very, very, very liberal or whatever.
But, like, he did a movie on Dick Cheney.
You know, some of it probably took a little comedic effect because it was supposed to be kind of funny, like dark comedy.
But very accurate, man.
Really?
Yeah.
Like, very, very.
What does he talk about?
He just walks you through his life and, like, how it all happened.
And, again, takes some comedic stretches.
But this guy was just.
I mean, he was in control in that White House.
I don't know what kind of pictures he had of George W. Bush.
He has some.
Because, I mean.
Another thing people don't talk about, and like when they did the 20-year documentary where Bush was in it, Cheney was in it, everyone was in it on Apple this past year for September 11th, you know, there's more than credible evidence.
It's kind of obvious that Dick Cheney broke the ultimate law on September 11th.
He ordered the shooting down of a civilian jet if it was coming towards Washington, D.C.
And they asked him, because the president was not incapacitated, he was in Air Force One.
The vice president is not acting president right now.
And they said, is this a presidential order?
And he, like, without saying it, I guess, like, kind of like Aaron Rodgers was like, I've been immunized.
He did the same.
I've been presidentialized.
And he hadn't been.
He should have been out of office right there.
And he wasn't.
When he ordered the shoot down of a commercial jet, if it was flying towards the White House?
If it was flying towards, I think, he gave whatever the military go-ahead was.
And people, please Google this to check this out, exactly what it was.
But he gave the military go-ahead, I believe, for the fighter jets that were in the sky.
To actively shoot down a civilian jet that wouldn't respond or something to Air Force control.
Right.
And that's, you know, and it sounds like even for him it was a heavy thing, but like he gave the order.
Right.
And it wasn't, he wasn't allowed to do that.
I've never heard that.
Yeah.
And like they talk about it openly.
Like, see, what I heard was, especially in that 9-11 documentary, they talk about how he gave specifically an order to not.
Shoot down the jets that the jet that was coming towards the Pentagon.
The jet that was coming towards the Pentagon did some crazy big loop and it was not communicating VFR for like a long time.
And they knew something was fishy with that plane, with the flight that it was taking, the flight path that it was taking.
And there was a communication with the guy that was under Chaney who they were in some sort of like a command room.
And they talk about the kid, he was a kid at the time.
He keeps coming into the command room where Chaney was in.
He goes, Sir, the plane is 50 miles out.
And he's like, okay, stand by.
So the kid goes back in the other room and comes back, you know.
About the Pentagon plane.
About the Pentagon plane.
He's listening to the audio.
Yeah, then he's like, okay, the plane is 30 miles out.
Does the order still stand?
He's like, yes.
The kid disappears, comes in, and this is all recorded.
And this whole situation was talked about during the 9 11 Commission and in front of Congress.
All that kind of shit.
Like, they really interviewed the guy that was in the room and he talked about it and he changed his story.
And he comes in again.
He's like, okay, the plane is 10 miles out.
Does the order still stand, sir?
Does the order still stand?
Like, he was like panicking visually, like sweating.
And Dick Cheney was like, yes, the order still stands.
Like, barked, like, yelled at him and never ordered to have the plane shot down or anything like that.
Like, there was an order to not have the plane shot down.
Now, I have to see this.
I have not seen this documentary.
I still have to watch this.
But off the top of my head, There's a lot done back here.
Yeah, off the top of my head.
I'm loosely paraphrasing what was happening, but that was the gist of it.
I believe this could be a situation.
It could be.
I don't know.
I have to see it.
Where they are changing the context because I believe the context was this is all recorded and he was saying this about the jet that was approaching, like that you have the order to shoot it down if it gets closer.
And then it never came to that because something happened in Shanksville.
They took it down, right?
The people took it down.
Like they turned the plane right down into the ground.
Unless conspiracy had on, it did get shot down.
We just never admitted that.
In this documentary, they basically tried to prove that the plane that came down to Pennsylvania in that big open field, that that was shot down by a person.
That would be very, very hard to cover up.
That would be so, so.
Now, look, it's been done before.
You can ask Jim about TWA-800.
You should ask him about that.
Is that with that flight?
96.
Okay.
The one that blew up.
He was on that investigation.
I believe his job was one of his main jobs was to interview all the expert pilots, like that they could get their hands on and run through every scenario, and every single pilot to a T told him it got shot down and that's not what the official story was.
So it's not like this hasn't happened, but I believe that was like over the ocean or something, maybe.
I'm not sure about that.
I have to check that, but we're talking about the same plane, right?
That was TWA 800 in 1996, I believe.
Oh right okay, so I was talking about the one on September 11th, I know okay, so I'm coming back to September 11th now.
This was over land.
Now, best possible type of area for least amount of people is a more rural area.
But it was over land.
They'd have to cover every witness there and get them quiet in an open society.
There's shit that happens, but this is still an open society.
There were cameras everywhere.
The media would have had to be in on it, period.
Which some cynics would say, well, that's not hard.
But this was a different time.
The power of the media was not as good.
The internet wasn't the thing.
It wasn't it wasn't as coordinated.
It didn't have the ability to be at the time.
So, like, furthermore, the evidence on the ground, like, there's so much that has to be there.
But, like, here's what I always say with the 9-11 thing.
And, again, I got to watch the one you tell me.
But I think we have been so fucked over six ways to Sunday over the last 20 years in a way that our nation hasn't been fucked over since the Great Depression.
And before that the Civil War and before that the Revolutionary War that, of course.
Naturally, we all turn to things to try to make sense of it and speak truth to power and call out where bad things happen which we should do, by the way.
That's a positive trait.
I try to live like here though, where I listen to a guy like Andrew, who I think has the right intentions and obviously smart guy, talented guy, and I try to listen with a critical ear and a grain of salt And a guy like Jim, too, you know, and also try to hear where there's truth, where there's not bias, right?
There's some things where there's not.
With September 11th, I think one of the things that we got to remember is that, like everything that's complicated, which is most things in this world, there's a lot of things that are true at the same time.
So it can be true that planes flew into buildings and the people who were in power might have been horrified at, you know, that day and what happened.
But they took advantage of it.
They did a whole bunch of shit that they had, you know, Deep State, had wanted to do for a long time.
Right.
Caused ground-altering precedents to happen that we have to live with today.
And we've seen all the tentacle after effects of this.
At the same time, and this part is true.
This is confirmed.
You ever seen The Looming Tower?
No.
Okay, this was a book, and then it was a 10-part miniseries on Hulu like five years ago.
I think I watched the first episode.
All right.
Phenomenal.
So, this is true.
The FBI and the CIA did not get along.
Right, right.
Right.
So, part of the reason I look at it and I'm like, not an inside job is because we do have a record.
The CIA, Kofa Black, and another guy who has a fake name because he's undercover to this day with the CIA went to the White House on, I think it was July 6th, 2001.
It was sometime in July, two months before.
We have the minutes, we have the write up.
They're saying they're coming here.
It's happening.
Right, right, right.
They knew it.
The problem was Alex Station, which was the bin Laden unit at the CIA, would meet with the counterterrorism FBI unit, the national security advisor, I think his name was Richard or William Clark, something like that, and some of the generals every week in Washington to share information.
And the guy who represented the FBI was a guy named John O'Neill, who was the basis of the looming tower.
You can ask Jim about him.
He didn't have the greatest reputation because he was a ladies' man.
He had like three wives at the same time.
It was kind of interesting.
Like, Guy of the night, brash, didn't give a shit about anyone but himself.
But he was a pretty good agent.
But he was a cop.
Like, he wanted the arrest.
He wanted the arrest.
How does CIA operate?
They want information.
They see a guy that they get in, and they don't want to put handcuffs on him.
They want to say, we got you six ways to Sunday.
You work for us now.
Yeah.
Right?
And now they get to a bigger fish.
Right.
So naturally, John O'Neill, CIA, didn't get along.
So the CIA, and we know this, this is a fact, the CIA did not share a lot of information with the FBI, including when some of these targets entered America, which, and righteously so, this is where you will get people to come in and be like, they made it happen and all that.
Espionage Going Right That Day00:09:55
The thing is, so many things had to go right that day that they would have never left out of their control.
Like these guys had to successfully get through every level of security where we know they had a couple close calls.
We know for a fact that the guy up in Maine on the initial flight at 6 a.m. almost stopped Mohammed Atta and didn't let him on the jet.
CIA would have never let that happen.
Like, this would have been like, oh, yeah, these guys are going right through.
They would have had their own stand-in there at the TSA.
And then, you know, we saw the planes go in.
The one people always talk about is the Pentagon because there's only one weird, you know, 140-pixel footage of it.
You can't even really see a plane.
Right.
But, you know, we saw.
My favorite people are the ones who are like, those weren't planes going into Twin Towers.
Like, dude, we have.
a trillion angles of it.
I'll show you.
They're definitely a plane.
It was a plane.
Right.
So all these things can be true at the same time.
And then the government, the bad actors in the government, in which case I would argue the people in power, that was some of the most corrupt inside government we've ever had at one time, I think, at least of what we know in history.
You look at Cheney, you look at Rumsfeld, you look at all these guys.
Right.
They took advantage of it.
And then they made money off it.
They went to Iraq.
It wasn't good enough to go to Afghanistan.
Right.
You know, we did a great job in Afghanistan for five minutes before, you know, without getting bin Laden.
That was the one thing that sucked, you know, for like symbolism purposes.
We eventually got him.
But then, you know, one thing Obama said that he was spot on about is he's like, we took our eye off the ball.
Now, it's easy to say that seven years later, you know, politically easy to say, but it's true.
We start focusing on Iraq.
Right.
And now look what happened with Afghanistan.
You know, it's really sad.
Like, you know, there's some extremists there.
But then there's a lot of innocent people who are caught in the middle of this who were never given a chance.
Once we did go in there, it's like, well, now they can be liberated.
They can go to school.
They don't have to live in this crazy society.
And we allowed a power vacuum to form because we took away our resources from there.
And we sent them somewhere for, you know, Bush wanted to finish his dad's job.
I don't know what the fuck.
Who knows?
But a lot of things can be true at the same time.
And I just always try to keep that in mind.
So like I'll watch, I'll look at something like that because I'm always curious.
But I don't, that's one I've never put credence into.
You know, you want to talk Epstein, of course.
Like that guy didn't kill himself.
You know, there's certain things that are just, you could tell.
Like they make it so obvious, which is sad that people can't see.
Who is the last person that killed themselves?
Jean-Luc Bernal.
Jean-Luc Bernal.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
The French model agency guy.
Now, you want to know about that one?
That's so interesting to me.
Jeffrey Epstein killed himself in the wee hours of a Saturday morning in August.
August is statistically, I believe, the slowest news month of the year.
We know that.
Saturday, Friday, after 10 p.m. on Friday before 1 or 2 p.m. on Saturday.
That is the slowest statistical news time of the week.
This man killed himself at 2 a.m. in a jail.
People aren't looking at their phones or watching the news.
Yeah.
In a jail where the cameras malfunction, the security wasn't there.
The attorney general at the time's father is the guy who gave this dude his first job ever.
Like, you can't make this shit up.
And at least people were somewhat on it then.
So now Jean-Luc Brunel spends whatever it was, two years almost, a year, whatever it was, in some French prison, so not here.
He kills himself in the wee hours of a Saturday morning in France on the weekend of President's Day weekend in America, so it's a three-day weekend, in the early morning hours without a camera on.
He knew where all the bodies were buried, or a lot of them.
Right.
That week, Russia invades Ukraine.
Fitting.
Very, very fitting.
Very fitting.
You know, like, what do you think of that whole thing, Epstein?
I don't know, man.
I don't fucking know.
I think that there's some definite fucking espionage going on, probably.
I think he was definitely some sort of spy.
You know, the whole thing that fascinates me is how the fuck is Ghislaine getting through all the shit that she's getting through?
Like, she's getting.
She went through that whole entire trial.
And do you know what with the verdict of that, like what ended up happening with her trial?
Isn't she going to go back?
Isn't she getting some sort of appeal?
Well, now apparently a juror may have lied.
Right.
So there was a juror that, right.
When did her verdict come out?
I don't remember.
I forgot this one.
I don't know.
It came out on, I believe it was Wednesday evening, December 29th.
Okay.
The slowest news week of the year in an evening, two days before.
New Year's Eve on a year where New Year's Eve even falls on Friday.
So the New Year's is on Saturday.
January 2nd is on Sunday.
You don't even get back into the swing of things until January 3rd and it's five days old and no one paid attention.
So no one gave a shit that the judge sealed all the files.
They're sealed.
Boop.
Gone.
And also that judge and this.
Wait, what do you mean sealed the files?
She sealed the Epstein records.
It cannot be released.
Like the things that were not like the evidence.
Yeah, that were not presented at trial are like Kennedy'd They're JFK'd really yeah, so when else has that happened besides JFK?
It's a good question.
I mean, it's happened.
Okay.
I don't know, but it's it's there's other things we could because there's national security implications.
Yeah, I think they did some of that for the 9-11 commission report.
I could be wrong about that though awesome.
That might you might want to check that but Yeah, like They're telling you what they're doing.
Now, are there, first of all, are there other Epstein's out there that we don't know about?
Yes.
Do governments around the world do crazy shit like this?
Yes.
Do we know who he worked for for sure?
No.
But he was the most public.
I mean, he was in New York.
I walked past his house.
Really?
He's in Central Park.
Yeah, he's on like 69th Street.
No, it's not 69.
I didn't mean to do that.
I'm sorry.
Does it have that little J.E. insignia right there?
I want to say it's like 71st Street or something on the Upper East Side, though.
It's like right there, pretty dangerously close to 69.
But, you know, I went back and I was looking at this a couple months ago after this trial.
And I'm like, when did this start?
Like, we saw the story creep up in 2015.
And then the lawsuit came in in 2017.
And people were talking about it a little bit.
Then 2019, boom, like he's in jail and then he's dead, like the whole thing.
I'm like, when did they report on this guy first, though?
I'm like, well, we know about the 2002 flight.
So I had known that.
You go Google it, you'll see stories in like Vanity Fair and stuff, like early stuff about him.
He first popped on people's radar in seemingly like 2002.
And what popped them on was that flight with Bill Clinton, Kevin Spacey, and Chris Tucker to Africa.
What a fucking flight.
What a flight.
So I'm like, okay, where can I find a story where this was reported?
Because every time they would talk about it, it would be in a story from 2015, like the famous 2002 flight.
And I Googled 2002 flight with all kinds of keywords and like the quotes to try to separate stuff out.
And I could never find a story from like October 1st, 2002.
Clinton on flight with billionaire, mysterious billionaire.
I could never find that.
And so then I found, I think it was in the New Yorker, did a big piece on October, I think it was October 28th, 2002.
And I went and found the flight log first.
And the flight log has it.
It was like September 21st or September 22nd, 2002, where it has this flight.
And it has the names written down, President Bill Clinton, Chris Tucker, Kevin Spacey, on the logs that his pilot physically wrote down because that's available online.
And so then in this New Yorker or whatever it was piece, they say, the mysterious billionaire came on people's radar when page six reported.
So page six in the New York Post, boom, there it is.
They're the ones who reported this flight.
So I go to page six.
I go to archives.
There are archives.
Of every month from 1999, when they started putting it online, through today, except in 2002 and 2003, including September and I believe October 2002, are not in there.
There's seven months missing from 2002 and five from 2003 right after this story, and then there's one month missing in 2004.
There's not a single month missing, including 1999, 2000, and 2001, to present day.
Wow.
So when this would have been reported, you can't even get that.
So what I wonder with him.
is like, we always wonder, like, what is a secret that's too big that humanity or society, at least, whatever relevant society, like, couldn't handle it?
Steve Bannon Epstein Connections00:12:44
If you found out that governments, whoever they are, made a trade-off where they said, we're going to allow, not allow, we're going to enable someone to be a total pervert for the next 40, 50 years, and here's what we're going to get out of it for civilization over the next 1,000 years.
Some of these people, they look crazy.
They're thinking about the survival of certain ethnic groups in different countries around the world into the future.
And so they're looking at like, well, how do we make sure all of us survive, right?
Do they sit in a room and say, yeah, we'll sacrifice the lives of 50,000 girls effectively over the next five decades to get this kind of information, to get not just information, get this leverage over people so that we can control what happens.
And I start to put that together and I'm like, I could see people convincing themselves to make that trade in a room, just dark room like this with the top people, the president of a country, prime minister, whatever.
You know, the head of intelligence and his right hand, the head, probably not even the head police chief, like a very select group of like the highest level figures saying, Are we going to make this?
What's the line in Glorious Bazzards?
You make that deal, I'll make that deal, right?
Like, they might.
And then it's a question of, well, who would do that?
I don't think this one was the CIA.
I have other thoughts on that, but I don't know.
I know as much as the next fucking person.
We don't, no one knows.
It's just so.
Mysterious.
Because they allowed this one.
This is why he's interesting.
They allowed him to get so public that it's right there in front of your face yeah, and yet you can touch him, but you can't.
You can't feel it.
Right right right right, you know.
But there's, there was a guy.
You ask anyone about this in government, they're gonna know his name.
This guy, Adnan Kashoggi.
You ever hear him?
See the arms dealer?
Yep dude, I was had.
Oh my god, I can't even say this on the podcast, i'm gonna say it after, Oh, no.
I can't implicate one of my guests.
Okay, fair.
But I just fucking learned who this guy was like two days ago.
I heard the craziest fucking stories.
Okay, I'll ask.
Remind me.
Don't let me forget about this.
Get David to dig deeper on him.
We got off it because I wanted to go somewhere else when I had him on.
Okay.
Adnan Khashoggi was an arms dealer from Saudi who wasn't, I don't think he had any blood of the royal family.
I think he was like, he got in with them early.
And.
He's known to every government agency because he lived in New York and a tower and other places around the world.
And it was reported that he was Jeffrey Epstein's mentor.
Because one of the things Adnan Khashoggi had was he was apparently also like a sex trafficker and like a really, I don't know if this is how you say it, but like a good one, like someone who knows what they're doing, at least.
There's no good sex trafficker.
Don't miss that.
Professional sex trafficker.
Yes, professional.
Like he was talented at it, I should say.
So very evil guy.
And he, in 1999, this is where it like all starts to come together.
And you're like, how far does this shit go?
Like, is there anything that this doesn't tie to?
Does it ever fucking end?
No.
So I read in David's book and context for people who don't know.
David Satter had him on my podcast.
I think you're going to have him on this one too.
He was, is the reporter who blew the whistle on Putin 25 years ago.
He's an American reporter.
He is to this day the only Western non-Russian reporter who has ever been kicked out of Russia.
He was actually kicked.
He was the last reporter they let back in after the Soviet Union fell because he had been kicked out.
And he was the first reporter and only reporter they kicked out because he was the Moscow correspondent for the Financial Times and then the Wall Street Journal since like 1976.
The guy has lived his whole life in and around Russia until he got kicked out in late 2013.
And he's like the guy on Vladimir Putin.
And the thing that he got on Putin, the first big story he broke on him that no one listened to, literally no one in this country or anywhere, was that Putin rose to power in September 1999 by bombing a bunch of apartments around Russia in Moscow and two other cities.
And he killed hundreds of his own people.
And you say, well, how did this bring him to power?
Because they blamed it.
It's a typical false flag event.
They blamed it on Chechen rebels.
And he effectively, this is late 1999.
Putin was named prime minister.
The president, Boris Yeltsin, his term was about to be over.
The election was going to be the next year.
Boris Yeltsin and Vladimir Putin, his sidekicks' approval rating was 2%.
Not only were they not going to win when Putin ran, but they were at risk of being thrown in jail for corruption or killed by the people because Russia was a power vacuum.
So they do this false flag event.
David could tell you about how he got that story and everything, but he got it.
And they say the Chechens did it.
They start the second Chechen war.
Yeltsin resigns three months early to, or whatever it was, five months early to make Putin an incumbent so people get used to him as president.
He's the wartime leader.
They have success in the war.
And suddenly people are like, yo, this guy's strong.
We like him.
60% approval rating, moves up the election two months or three months from June to March in 2000, wins.
The rest is history.
David had this story.
Alexander Litvinenko.
The former KGB FSB agent had this story.
Putin killed him, as we know, in London with polonium in 2006.
He was a Russian who had it.
David was the Western reporter.
They both had it.
And nobody listened.
But I found in one of his books, he wrote really offhand, didn't seem to think anything of it when he wrote it.
But the way they got the Chechen thing to happen is they created a fake invasion of Dagestan by a certain sect of Chechen rebels about a month before the bombings in 1999.
And what happened was, by and large, the Chechens shot their way into Dagestan, which is a country over there.
And then the Russians came in to defend.
And after a while, the Chechens basically just picked up their bags and they left.
And as they left, the Russians didn't shoot them.
They just let them leave.
Like nothing happened.
And so then there was some sort of like disagreement that happened publicly out of that, which then caused the Chechens to bomb the buildings.
They created like a false flag event.
To get the false flag event to happen.
Right.
And what David uncovered is that there was a secret meeting in Monaco or Nice, like somewhere in there, at Adnan Khashoggi's house between the Chechens and representatives from the inner workings of the Russian government where the Dagestan, I think that's how you're supposed to say it, Dagestan, the Dagestan invasion was cooked up.
And I'm just like, where does this end, man?
Holy shit.
Like, where the fuck does this end?
Khashoggi and this guy is apparently how is he tied to Epstein and John Luke Burnell?
He's he was Epstein's mentor, he was Epstein.
I thought, yeah, he was a guy who allegedly trained.
I don't know if you can even, is that what you call it?
I never heard this guy's name until the other day.
I heard what's up with the guy, the Victoria's Secret guy, Les Les Lex Wexler.
I thought that was his, his, uh, like one of his mentors.
He was like allegedly like a financial mentor, but I think, and I don't think anyone knows, but they think that like Jeff had some blackmail on him or they were just in on it together.
And so Lex, is it Lex or Les?
I always forget.
Les, it's Les Wexner.
Yeah, so whoever, Victoria's Secret dude, you know, running a company with a bunch of girls in their panties all day.
Neither here nor there.
Right, but he allowed Jeff to manage all his money.
Did you also know, though, that.
Before Jeffrey Epstein died, after Steve Bannon got fired by Trump, he interviewed Jeffrey Epstein on camera in his house, I think for 18 hours.
Steve Bannon did?
No, I don't fucking know.
Where do you find this shit?
Do you do anything but research?
I don't know, man.
I went down this rabbit hole, though, like two months ago.
Steve Bannon, Austin, I don't know if you can find this clip.
It's on YouTube.
If you type in Steve Bannon Epstein.
He released for some documentary.
He's got Steve Bannon's crazy, but he's got some documentary coming out.
They used to think he was Q, Qing on.
Oh, God.
But he has some documentary coming out.
Go down, type in, go back up and just add Times Up with Times Within Apostrophe.
Is it even on here anymore?
Hold on.
All right, type in Steve Bannon Epstein interview.
Yeah, that first one.
Yeah.
It's got to still be on here.
Go down.
Go down.
The crazy thing about it.
It's like a minute.
Okay, there it is.
There it is.
See the teaser with Epstein?
Oh, wow.
Right there?
Dude, try not to laugh when you hear this.
Oh, my God.
Click this.
It's only two minutes long.
This is a trailer for his documentary.
We were little girls.
By the time I was 16, I brought him up to 75 girls.
He was glib.
He lived essentially like he was Gatsby.
He was an absolutely terrifying person to encounter.
There's the J.E. You own an island.
Two islands.
The islands of Dr. Moreau.
Jeffrey Epstein was a billionaire New York businessman whose vast wealth bought an arrogance that knew no limits.
He acted as if he could have anything That woman's reporting on this is the best by far, the 60 Minutes Australia lady.
Watch this.
Is that not a sop because of all the depravity you've done against young women?
Your new sop is that women's thinking is the future?
No, I've always believed that women would be able to take over.
I'm a firm believer and supporter of what?
He got that on camera.
That was it.
That's the whole thing of Epstein talking.
What does that mean, Time's Up?
No, the Time's Up Me Too movement?
Like Time's Up?
Oh, I didn't know Time's Up was a problem.
Yeah, it was like some trending hashtag with it.
It was like Time's Up for male supremacy or whatever the fuck it was.
And he's like, I'm a huge believer.
He's got the New York accent and everything.
He's like a normal guy sitting in his house.
He's like, I'm a huge believer in Time's Up.
Didn't he wasn't he like really into I forget the word now, but like he wanted to like spread basically his DNA throughout I heard that what is I forget what the There's a word for that when you like Is it eugenics eugenics?
Yeah, eugenics.
He wanted to like I Think that's why he bought he said and this is a report, but like he bought the Zoro ranch so that he could spawn Little Lepsy.
Right dude was crazy man was He was like a racist bastard too.
Like he would just, he looked down on anyone who wasn't white completely.
Like he made shit up about like the physicality of people who were other races.
I don't remember specific examples, but he was just, yeah, he was like this awful, awful.
Like if you could create an awful human being like Adolf Hitler, Jeffrey Epstein.
Epstein Island Glass Microphones00:10:25
I mean, that's kind of, that's where we're at for some of the same and I guess also maybe some different reasons.
My thought on that is there's a lot of people like those guys.
But the difference is when you give them that amount of money, when they have that amount of money and unlimited resources, then they act on who they are.
You know what I mean?
Or does it change them?
I don't think it changes them.
I think it makes them more of who they already are.
I think that's probably right.
It's a magnifying glass.
I think there's definitely people like that.
I also, I should say, I think there are also people who they get access to something.
Some impetus is put in front of them after having money and connections right and then they decide that they didn't dislike whatever it was that just happened and it's the smallest thing or it's a bigger thing and they do it again and do it again then they do it more right and they like it right right and they keep going I think that's definitely a thing,
but you're right there's There's people who are probably molded to be the worst of the worst and They decide not to be a serial killer, so we just never see it right.
I think you're right about that, but he's just like I don't know.
I'd started.
I had always thought about it, but I was never one of these.
Like, I wasn't sitting there listening to the podcast or anything, like going back and forth.
I'm like, this is just fucked up.
And then that trial, just something about it just, of course, offended me.
And I was just like looking all through it.
And I'm like, this is.
The G. Lane trial?
Yeah.
Which is Lane trial?
Yeah.
And I'm just putting the timeline.
Because I thought to myself, I'm like, I wonder if I like pass this guy on the street in New York.
Yeah.
Statistically, I used to walk up to 83rd and 2nd.
All the fucking time from Midtown.
I like to walk in the city.
I'm like, statistically, I might have.
How freaky is that?
You might have just, like, walked by this.
You never know.
This dude, yeah, with all these secrets.
I never knew houses like that even existed.
I never knew there was, like, these, like, there was, like, townhouses, but they're fucking mansions when you get inside of them.
And they're right on the main roads in New York.
Look, that tells you how little time I've spent in New York.
They don't want people like me in places like that, but I'll take you up to New York sometime.
I can point at them.
Well, Scorsese has a place like that, too.
Probably.
Very simple.
It looks just like it from the outside.
Yeah, and like again, like just because you live in a place like that doesn't mean you have you seen succession on HBO?
No, oh my god.
I've heard good things though.
It looks that the fucking main guy the billionaire's house.
Yeah, the guy with the beard.
He he lives in a place that looks just like looks just like Epstein's house.
I mean, they exist.
It's like You know, you don't know where You can have a great person and a bad person, right?
And you can have that house and all these other things that come with whatever set of life circumstances this is.
And you can go like this in a test tube scenario and put the good person in there and, you know, that they're going to be them.
No.
You do the same thing with the bad person, they're going to be them.
The thing they have in common is they've accessed all this stuff.
So how do they use it?
Does the good person do a lot of philanthropy?
Maybe not even that.
You know, just as like, nice guy, tips people well, lives a good life, lives 80 years, dies of cancer, calls it a day, right?
You know, kids fight over the estate.
Bad person leaves behind an island where a bunch of people got raped.
I mean, that's the think about that divide.
Have you seen the fucking video of the kid on the jet ski who's riding his jet ski through the Bahamas?
He rides past Epstein's Island.
No.
And he pulls up and ties his fucking ski up right in front of that crazy looking blue and gold building.
And he fucking climbs up the rock and he runs up and he's like filming himself running across that fucking desert.
Do you have a video of this?
Yeah.
YouTube the video of the kid who ran up on.
There it is.
Come on.
When is this?
2020?
Yeah.
Wait, this might not be it.
This kid actually.
Jumps up on the island and like takes a selfie.
No.
Imagine being one of the agents there.
Like, God damn it.
No, this isn't it.
This isn't it.
God damn it.
Go back.
Go back.
Go to YouTube.
Jim, that's going to be on the internet.
Too bad.
And just type in on YouTube.
Kid runs across Epstein's Island.
Epstein Island.
It's like imagine having to look at that island like being in an island close to it right now like you know it's there keep going Type it just type it into Google just type it into Google and go to images might be there might be like a snapshot.
I'm gonna get in the video off Images kid recently committed suicide Don't say that don't speak it into existence Yeah, I wonder how many people have like committed suicide that are related to this that we don't know are related to this That number is four figures.
Okay, click on the picture of the blue and white striped building.
Click on that.
Now go down, scroll down to like related photos down.
What the fuck?
They're making it hard to find.
Type in GoPro.
You want to try DuckDuckGo?
I guarantee you.
Type in GoPro.
You filmed it with a GoPro.
There it is.
Look at this dude.
No way.
Click on it, yeah.
They didn't arrest him for this, did they?
I don't know.
This is a public service.
Trespasser on Jeffrey Epstein's.
This is public service trespass.
Dude, you could just pull up on a fucking boat or a jet ski and climb right up onto that little area where that building is.
Who the fuck is going to buy that?
Somebody's going to buy it.
I want to just go trespass and just set up microphones and do a podcast real quick in front of me.
Elon Musk should buy it and do a bomb test on there and take it off the face of planet Earth.
Just be like, yeah, we're going to try a rocket from there.
It's one of the ones that destructs the ground below it.
Like that.
Place can't exist.
Do you think that we could get away with climbing up on that island and doing a podcast real quick?
Like for like a one hour podcast?
I mean, they got on.
Not one minute.
That guy probably got on there.
I mean, if he was running quickly, it was unexpected and we have a video before security could close.
But like, there's no way if you're on that for five minutes.
What do you do if you're the security guard and you're like rolling up and you see two guys with microphones doing a podcast right in front of that fucking building?
You just have to act like you're on there.
Like, hey, what's up, man?
How are you?
Yeah, yeah.
You want to hop in?
This might not be five minutes.
This might just be some fucking.
This is not even related to it.
You just gotta scroll down.
When I'm in New York, though, next, I do, I have, I thought.
Look at this kid!
Come on.
Oh, he's right next to the thing.
He got pictures.
Oh, he even got like Instagram level pictures.
Yeah.
They fucking modeled in front of the place.
Look at this.
Look at this.
All right.
Yeah.
Security was.
Someone let him do this.
You think?
Yeah.
Someone was like, you know what?
It was bound to happen.
Go up.
Say something about his YouTube channel.
Bracco's YouTube videos.
Notice the image running.
His name's Bracco.
Okay.
I wonder what kind of tunnels exist there.
Oh, my God.
Right.
How fucking crazy.
But I do want to.
I have thought about this.
When I go to New York next, like I told you, I love to walk through New York.
What a new legend.
It is.
When was this?
2020?
Yeah, 2020.
When I go there next, though, they've apparently renovated the whole place.
Like a Goldman guy bought it.
His New York house?
Yeah, and took out the whole inside.
I think the guy, I mean, it's a Goldman guy, but I think he bought it as someone needs to buy this.
And.
I mean, I thought they should have knocked it down.
He basically apparently ripped out the whole thing.
But it's still sold for a big number.
I wouldn't expect that.
I guess he's got the money to spend.
But I do want to go stand out.
I've definitely passed it before and not thought about it.
Fuckers!
Sorry.
Oh, this is it?
This is the actual.
Oh, he's got a part.
So there's a part two.
Did he go back the next day?
He must have.
Just fast forward to the part.
They're going to have a whole intro trying to get you.
Yeah.
Go see where see where that big spike is it's probably right there Oh, I gotta get that tool I've even seen that that's just part of YouTube I think now it's like a new thing they did I guess Oh,
he's on it right now Just two assholes walking on to this walking on to this like What's the word at 6 30 a.m.?
We were nearly compromised 12 hours later we return.
No, they went back.
Oh my god.
Yo.
They're definitely Epstein's nephews.
This is the ultimate prank.
They did it before Jug Squad.
This is what I'm saying.
The security guards look at leaning up from his newspaper like, eh, fuck it.
Do you think there's still security guards on the island?
Dude, there's got to be CIA and fucking NSA wands on there.
Whatever the fuck they're called.
Yeah, but there's nothing there.
I mean, the buildings are there, dude.
Yeah, but what are they going to do with the building?
I mean, they could hypothetically kick down the door.
Yeah, I guess you're right.
That's a window.
What's in there?
Is that two-way glass or one-way glass?
I don't know.
Part two.
13-minute Epstein style.
These kids are fucking crazy, bro.
Yeah, what are their names?
At BRACCOZ.
Bracos.
Yeah.
Yeah, we got to get them some more subs.
We got to get them in here.
How do they only have 12,000 subs?
Yeah, you got to get them in here.
These guys need to be blown up before they're not with us anymore.
So, you're saying you want to take a photo in front of his ass?
No, no, I don't want to take a fucking photo.
Fuck that.
Selfie?
No, I just want to stand there and look.
Tom Brady Philly Super Bowl00:10:29
Like, you know, once in a while I'm a believer in that weird universe shit.
I just want to feel if I feel something.
Like, there's another house, by the way, not far from Epstein's, but that's not a coincidence because New York, it's, you know, everything's tight.
But there's another house, I think it's next to Michael Bloomberg's place, maybe like 72nd Street, 73rd, something like that, where it was like the Iraq consulate or something.
And Saddam's people used to like torture people down there.
Oh, really?
And then they ripped that shit.
Whoever bought that ripped that shit out.
But like, there's just that's the thing about New York.
And you could say this about any place, technically, somewhere.
But in New York, you walk down every street, and this is where shit happened or is happening, right?
And so there's just, it's weird, but I think about this a lot, like the environment of it.
I'm like, something in there could have been world-changing shit.
Maybe of good.
Maybe of good.
Maybe of evil, right?
You walk past the Federal Reserve.
Damn, I wonder who stood in there before, you know, what they're talking about.
And then, like, if you drive down I-78 right next to New York.
Where you have an unabated look at the skyline, right?
Every time I did that drive 2,000 times, maybe not, probably 1,000, but like every time I drive down there, I just look at those fucking things and I'd be like, Not one of those dick looking buildings went up without the mafia okay in the cement contract on the whole fucking thing, right?
Which you know, I'm not giving them a compliment, but it's like wild to think about that.
Like, none of those went up without like Paul Castellano being like, Yeah, they paid enough, like John Gotti.
Lucky Luciano back in the day.
Yeah, we'll build that building.
Like that's the mob.
Right.
You know, and then the UN is there.
Oh, I wonder who's come through there.
I wonder who stayed at these hotels.
You know?
Yeah, man.
There's a fucking deep, deep, dark, dark history in that town.
That city.
It's good and bad.
Good and bad.
Right.
But a lot of it.
A lot of both.
A lot of both, man.
And that's like New York's like the ultimate symbol.
Because it creates a different kind of person.
People from New York are so fucking different.
So fucking different than anywhere else.
You can tell.
And it's not even just the accent, it's the whole personality of somebody.
I heard that one of the best expressions I ever heard that really summed it up perfectly was the difference between New York and LA.
People from New York, I love.
This is not everybody, but most people.
They like to shit on you with a smile.
Versus LA, they smile.
With and they fucking talk shit behind your back.
They smile at your face.
It's like fake nice in L and on the West Coast and on the East Coast.
It's they shit on you with the smile, which I prefer much more to fake nice.
People are direct, like they're so direct.
Like I feel like out of my element when I'm not around New York.
Yeah.
It's like that's like if someone, if I'm walking down the street and someone doesn't say like fuck you, get out of the way, it's like something's wrong here.
Right, right, right, right.
Hold on a minute.
You're being too nice.
Like I'll come down to Florida, you know, where like my grandparents are.
And, like, I walk in this store and people are like, Well, how are you doing there?
And I'm like, You know, a day, it's great.
Two days, it's great.
And then the third day, I'm like, Aren't you going to be like, My hair's out of place or get the fuck out of my parking spot?
You know, there's like something.
But I don't know.
There's good and bad with it.
But it definitely, you get molded by the speed of New York.
You can either keep up or you can't.
Right.
You know, when I would do business with people, talk business, whatever, no matter how serious or unserious it was, who were from the Midwest or something like that, it drove me nuts.
Because, like, we're like this.
Right.
All right, let's get done.
Right.
Deal.
Let's go.
These guys, you know, tomorrow exists.
And you know what?
Next Wednesday, that exists.
Yeah, yeah.
And would you like to come over for supper the following Monday?
And it's like, that's so true.
It's like, what are we doing?
Hold on a minute.
You know, let's handshake and get the fuck on with it.
Like, let's spit on it and go.
But New York is the ultimate, like, even more because I grew up around Philadelphia and then spent my adult time in New York, like, night and day.
Like, even though it's like that in Philly, like, Philly's small.
Yeah.
New York's a whole.
Where there's $5 million in Philly, there's $500 million in New York.
You know, where there's this speed of something happening in Philly, there's that speed times 50 happening in New York.
And, like, even that divide, like, attitude-wise, can be a little wide.
It's crazy to think about.
It's not that far.
Are you, like, as far as sports goes, are you more of a Phillies fan or a New York fan?
Yeah, I'm more.
I got the P on my hat.
Could never wear that NY on there.
No, never.
No.
And I identify.
I have for a long time more because I spent my time in New York and that's where the center of the world is.
But like, you know, I'm from, I grew up in West Deptford, which is 11 minutes from Philly, you know, in Jersey.
And that was my home city.
So like, there's always that there.
And we're definitely, it's a passionate place, especially with sports.
Show them your wrist.
I'm from Pittsburgh.
You get it.
Pittsburgh's legit.
Pittsburgh's got, it's in a different way.
It's like, he's a Floridian his whole life.
Except for like the first five minutes of his life, but he identifies as a full blown Pittsburgh.
Is your family from there?
Yeah, I lived there until I was like 10.
He just likes to talk a lot of shit.
You can't believe I like 90% of what Danny tells me.
That's giving a lot more credit to this situation.
Yeah, yeah.
So that's okay, whatever.
That's the job.
Five minutes, 10 years, same thing.
Danny just doesn't understand because he's from Florida.
Nobody has any respect for sports teams down here.
What?
You got Tom fucking Brady.
Yeah, you have Tom Brady.
Nobody has any like loyalty to sports down here.
Danny likes the Lakers one day, likes the fucking Bucks the next day.
He likes the Bucs one day.
He likes fucking the Patriots the next day.
That's a Vikings.
Hey, look at the stickers.
Look at the stickers.
We're the Bucs fans over here.
We're going to do that in Pennsylvania.
Yeah, when Tom Brady's not here in two years, is it going to look like that?
I won't give a fuck about sports anymore.
Okay.
Yeah.
See, that's the thing.
See, I like, I'm a more of like a player fan.
I like the player.
I'm a fan of the players.
That's what people say that have no loyalty or no heart towards their sports.
I'll watch a LeBron game, like any team he's on.
I'll watch the game.
But if, I mean, if it's fucking.
If it's the 76ers and the Orlando Magic, I don't give a shit.
But if LeBron's playing the game, I like watching it.
Same with Tom Brady.
Well, Tom, not even, honestly, I never really gave a fuck about Tom Brady before he was on the Bucs.
I never really cared about watching his games.
Yeah, you wouldn't understand.
No, I wouldn't.
Yeah, I think I would have seconded that right there.
I don't get it.
I don't.
But it's fun to watch.
It's just like it's fun to watch everybody in Tampa just lose their minds now that Tom Brady's the quarterback.
I mean, look, it's a privilege.
It's like you're watching the epitome of greatness every week.
And now he's coming back.
It's like the guy is out of control.
Listen, it's like popular in a place like Philly to be like, fuck Tom Brady.
I was never with that.
Like to me, when we won our Super Bowl in 2018, that was like, I can't even.
Was that foot long foals?
Yep.
Yeah.
I love how you know.
BDB, baby.
But like that was so important.
Like the religion that is, especially football there.
And to finally win it, we had had a championship, not a Super Bowl.
It was right before there were Super Bowls.
Like to do that, it's indescribable.
But people, you know, there would, even after we won, we're at the parade, people are making fun of Tom Brady, kissing his kids and shit like that.
Oh, yeah.
And I'm just like, guys, and they were giving him shit.
I'm like, Tom Brady, who is the best player to ever step on a football field, just played one of the greatest, as great as Nick Foles was in that game, and he was phenomenal, deserved to win MVP the whole bit.
Tom Brady played one of the greatest games of football I have ever seen.
Maybe his best game ever.
The guy didn't miss.
He threw no interceptions.
He had three touchdowns.
He threw for 500 and some yards.
I mean, he should have had like five or six touchdowns, but they ran a couple in at the goal line.
But like, I'm like, this, the best player to ever play just played against us in the Super Bowl.
We somehow won and won our first Super Bowl against the best to ever do it at the top of this game.
I have nothing but respect for him.
And thank you for letting me watch that.
Hell yeah.
Because like, we won, but I also got to watch like perfect football.
And I'll never, in the second quarter of that game, I'll never forget this for the rest of my life.
Chris Collinsworth gets on there.
There was some sort of like weird stutter go route that Gronk and Brady tried.
It was like a timing pattern.
And Brady threw it low.
I think because he thought Gronk was going to come in.
And it was clear to everyone on TV.
Like he threw a dart in there, but it came in low.
And Collinsworth goes, You know, I'm not really sure about that one, Al, but you got to wonder.
Father Time catches up with everyone.
And Tom Brady doesn't make that throw.
Next throw, 50 yards downfield.
Oh, there's Tom Brady.
He never misses again the rest of the day.
I'm like, that's the coldest in game take I've ever seen in my life.
Like, you're talking about father time when the guy's throwing for 550 fucking yards or whatever it was.
I'm like, this dude.
And that was four years ago.
Yeah.
Four years, like 41, whatever it was.
Yeah.
And I'm just like, he walked off the field.
I'm like, yo, I give him a salute.
Like, we're selling.
My dad and me are like crying.
But I'm like, salute to that guy.
That's like, I'll never.
It doesn't get any better in this.
Like, we literally couldn't stop you.
Were you at the game?
No.
Oh, okay.
I went home to watch it with my dad.
I'm like, oh, really?
We got to take him home.
That's awesome.
We got to take him home together.
That's awesome.
And it was like, Together.
Yeah, we're doing it.
It was like a religious experience.
And then the parade was like I thought that was insane.
Oh, it's indescribable.
No one will ever do a parade like that, like Philly at their first Super Bowl.
I saw things that I'll never see again.
I saw people peeing in places that I didn't think were possible.
Ukraine Maidan Narrative Shifts00:15:56
You know, they put all Cresco oil on the poles.
On all the poles.
Didn't matter.
No, they still got there.
Didn't matter.
What?
The best was when I saw Jesus walking around, a guy dressed as Jesus with a giant flagpole that had that had an industrial clear bag on the top and a sign walking next to him that said Nick Foles condom with a bob and an arrow up.
And Nick Foles with his little daughter and his very cute religious wife driving by on the bus and Jesus standing there.
Some people are so amazing, bro.
Sports fans are like none other.
They're the best.
They're the best.
That's fucking hilarious.
You know what's scary, though?
We, like, sports.
And like the passion or like the tribalism behind that now in the social media era At least my opinion is while that's continued to a great extent.
We make sports like politics, too, right?
So we look at it people get like this like emotional and like Cutthroat.
Oh, yeah over issues like you you brought this up a while ago.
We didn't go into it, but we probably should like the whole Ukraine thing.
I looked at this Maybe a day after it happened.
And I'm just so cynical now that I'm like, give it a week.
Give it a week, and we're going to have two camps.
Oh, yeah.
We're going to have the people, and like, it didn't take a genius.
I think a lot of people called this, but like, we're going to have the people who have the profile picture from Adobe Photoshop with the Ukrainian flag and like the overgraphic image like this, stand with Ukraine or whatever they were going to say.
The pronouns underneath.
All that.
Then we're going to have people who suddenly are like, you know, this Putin guy might not be too bad.
And the people who get all the attention, so therefore what seems to be the main narratives, even though a lot of people don't feel these two ways, are going to be those two.
And you're now going to divide people along the lines, are you anti-Ukraine or pro-Putin?
Right, right, right.
And it's like, dude, like a fucking simulation.
You know, same thing as the 9-11 thing.
A lot of things can be true at the same time.
Yeah.
No, I mean, like I told you, I went down that whole Ukraine rabbit hole with the Oliver Stone documentaries, and that shit just like took me for a whirlwind.
When did he make that?
2017, I want to say.
Around 2017, 2018.
He has two separate ones.
He has one that was all about the Maidan thing.
2014.
And he has the one, or no, I'm sorry, he has the one about the Orange Revolution that was before that.
This is different.
This is the actual interviews he did with Putin.
And then he has another one that goes into all the way up to Zelensky in 2019 and how he campaigned to end the war in Donbass and he still never did it.
And the craziest part, which I talked to the guy I had on here a couple days ago about, was that lady, Victoria Nuland, the neocon.
Yeah, you were telling me about this.
Whose husband's also a big fucking neocon who helped sell the Iraq war.
What's her position?
I'm not sure what her position is.
Can we pull that up, Victoria Nuland?
Yeah, Victoria Nuland.
Pull up that same clip of her talking about the recorded phone call with Victoria Nuland.
And they're recording it.
She's talking about Biden signing off on the new president of the Ukraine.
And you were telling me this is the same lady who had, like, that weird back and forth.
With Marco Rubio.
Yes, that's the same lady.
The Senate.
She's like, there are chemical labs, research labs in the Ukraine, yes, and we want to make sure that we want to do everything we can to make sure that the Russian troops do not get their hands on them.
My only thing.
And he was like, what?
My only thing about this is, well, not my only thing, but one thing about this is, of course, it's horrifying to see what's going on there.
You have a heart.
The people who are caught in the middle of this are not terrified.
They're fucked.
Yeah, it's disgusting what's going on.
But like, Why do we not raise this point?
Like, why are we just raised?
I know it's important because Ukraine's 45 million people.
It's right next to Russia.
It has resources.
Putin's bad.
But, like, what about all the brown kids who have this happen every fucking day in the Middle East?
Well, because, like, like Tim Dillon said, we can imagine these people coming to dinner with us.
They're white.
Oh, I didn't see that.
Wow.
The best.
Have you seen the.
Did you see the Trevor Noah video?
He actually nailed this with talking about, like, the implicit bias in the media talking about this war.
He's like, ooh.
I wonder why they're so worried about it.
Let's roll the tape.
And, like, the people are like, you know, this is Europe.
This isn't a third world country.
Exactly.
These aren't little brown babies running around.
They look just like us.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And you have to protect them.
And, like, you know, the one guy had, like, an oh shit moment.
The one CBS reporter on TV is like, and I have to choose my words carefully here, but.
Oh, yeah, exactly.
European?
Yeah.
What is that supposed to mean, Steve?
Like, why are we so worried about.
The Ukrainian people being murdered when we're not worried about people in Yemen getting bombed and slaughtered and p you know what's.
The other thing is because Trevor Noah said this, he's like, literally Europe's whole history is built off of war, and he's right.
It hasn't even been that long since what?
I think maybe there's been another one since then.
I'm not even thinking of it, but like people even know what happened in Kosovo in 1999.
Have you ever looked into that?
I mean, I know a little bit about it, but not a lot.
Yugoslavia, all that.
You'd have to enlighten me.
I went down the rabbit hole.
This is recent and I there's a lot I don't know, so please look this up for yourself.
But like, you know, the whole like Yugoslavia breaking up after the Soviet Union fell from 91 to 99 in that power vacuum in those six different regions there, including three more that were outside of Yugoslavia that had like some of the same people in there.
This is where borders like don't divide by culture.
Like there's the same types of people like there's Albanians who live not just in Albania.
They live in Kosovo.
They live in Macedonia.
They live in Serbia, like all these places.
And like there was legit like genocide going on there.
And we don't talk about it because the government, NATO just came in and bombed the shit out of Serbia to end it, which I guess there's controversy there, but I guess technically did.
But, you know, they didn't let the media in to the countries while this was going on.
So we just, yeah, whatever.
But there was like literal ethnic cleansing going on.
No one cared about that one.
Right.
You know, but now there's a narrative to it.
Yeah, they're Rwanda.
Yep.
Rwanda.
Have you ever seen that movie, Hotel Rwanda?
No.
Don Cheadle?
No.
Bro.
This is 28 years ago.
The Hutus and the Tutsis.
I'm probably getting that wrong.
You're right.
Okay.
They just ran around with machetes.
What?
And just fucking, I forget who did it on who, but.
What was that?
I'm pretty sure France gave them money to get a.
Oh, I didn't know that.
You just got back from Rwanda, didn't you?
Didn't you just go to Rwanda?
Really?
This kid goes to every fucking country around, every country I've never even heard of.
We've got to pop you in here.
That's pretty cool.
Okay, play that Victoria Nuland clip real quick.
Yeah, yeah, let's go back there.
This is the phone call, right?
Full screen, yeah, this is the recorded phone call.
So when, can you give the context on this real quick?
Okay, so this is right, like, towards the end of the Maidan massacre.
Right here.
So, like, 2014.
Okay.
There was a phone call that was intercepted.
It was a call between the Assistant Secretary of State for European Affairs, Victoria Nuland, and the U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine, Jeffrey Payet.
Questions of credibility are being raised after a private chat between two top U.S. diplomats was leaked online.
I think Yaz is the guy who's got the economic experience, the governing experience.
He's the guy, you know, what he needs is Kleach and Tony Buck on the outside.
I just think Kleach going in, he's going to be at that level.
Working for Yatsenyuk, it's just not going to work.
Yeah, no, I think that's right.
Okay.
Good.
Well, do you want us to try to set up a call with him?
Corporate speak.
Oh, my God.
So you had this remarkable phone call where you have these two senior officials of the U.S. government apparently talking about a coup or how they were planning to restructure the government of Ukraine.
Look at that evil bitch.
No, exactly.
The U.S. government feels that way.
There is division on this, but the neoconservative element wants very much to change the strategic dynamic in Eastern Europe.
You know what?
How fucking crazy is that?
Now, take out the words Ukraine and like president or whatever there, and now imagine like two HR managers at Bank of America talking about a business that they're going to slowly unwind so that they don't have to sell the shareholders until it's already done.
It's the same speak.
Corporate speak.
He's like, all right, we'll call you back with next steps.
Biden's with us.
I have a hard stop at 4 15, by the way.
Like, shut the fuck up.
Dude, it's so insane.
So fucked up.
This was 2014.
Yeah.
So this is like tech era is upon us.
I don't know why for the life of me.
I understand like day to day you're just doing your job and you're not thinking about everything.
But like think about everything you do when you're in a position like that.
You got to be on constant alert.
Like I wonder how this would sound if someone was recording this right now.
Because they might be.
You know, like you never know when this is going to come out.
They weren't thinking that back then.
So here's, maybe not.
Apparently not.
But like, here's a prime example.
The thing they're talking about right there.
They might actually have the right opinion on this, but they're doing it in like a seemingly corrupt underwater way.
Right, right, right.
Like Yanukovych was not a good guy.
He lied to his people.
He was a piece of shit who was friends with Putin and everything.
And the people, the Ukrainian people wanted him out.
That's a fact.
They wanted him gone and he ended up being gone.
But here you have senior U.S. officials talking about like nonchalant, like, yeah, we're going to get our guy in there or whatever.
Right.
Where now it's dirty.
Now it's like, well, did they put someone in here?
Right.
Now, it seems like obviously Zelensky's, this is way, this is seven years later, and then Zelensky was like a random comedian who then somehow got to office.
Right.
And I think that guy's just caught in the middle of a shitstorm because you got to remember, the Ukrainian government already had like its own bullshit, regular corruption like all these governments have, and he's walking into that.
So who the fuck knows like what these guys are doing around him right now.
Right, right.
You know, but we can all agree, you know, what's happening to his people is awful.
It's just like, don't make a Twitter bio about it.
Right.
When you don't know anything.
But could you imagine fucking Russia installing doing this same thing in Mexico?
Could you imagine fucking some top level Russians in the KGB inserting a regime in Mexico?
Like what the fuck would we do to Mexico?
Are you kidding me?
You should ask.
No, that would never fucking happen.
You should run this by David.
This is another one you should definitely run by to see how he answers it.
Because like the concept is, well, we're good and they're bad.
Right.
What is good and what is bad?
Right.
Now I will say this, as critical as I may be.
And feel as in this podcast of, like certain agencies and things we do and assholes like that yeah, on the good and bad spectrum, do I do.
I think we're a lot better intentioned at least like overall, as a group of people, to say nothing of individuals, than say, Russia yes, but who are we to say that it's not our country?
You know what I mean.
So like, if you're Russia, if you're Putin, the one thing is that you could feel a little threatened, That, like, oh, there's NATO troops on every one of those levels.
Possibly, yeah, maybe.
Maybe all these anti ballistic missiles they're putting up there that could be changed into offensive missiles in less than an hour.
I don't know anything about that, but yeah, if that's a thing, then yeah.
Another example, like, a lot of things can be true at the same time.
And that's why what he's doing is an all time level of stupidity because he actually, as much as he's already disliked and ripped on the world stage before any of this happened, He had some potentially moral leverage against Western, not Ukraine per se, but Western powers who were tacitly allowing certain things to happen on all the borders around him where then Ukraine comes into play because it's the biggest one.
He had some leverage there.
And then he went and attacked the country and shelled apartments and shit.
And it's just like he gave it all away.
And now the one thing I understand with people who have significant bias is, yeah, it's very hard to see past anything.
When you do see something very evil happening in front of you.
My issue is that people just take such a.
It has to be everything to them.
Ukraine has to be all good.
Yeah.
There's no problems.
Can you find that Jon Stewart interview with Oliver Stone?
I think it's Jon.
No, not Jon Stewart.
Who's the other guy?
Stephen Colbert interviews Oliver Stone about his interviews with Putin.
And he's basically sitting there.
They even edited out a shitload of it to make it.
Because actually, Oliver made.
If you watch the long version, you make some really good points.
They cut it out of the main.
Where'd you get the long version?
The long version is.
I think it's also on YouTube, but you got to dig way deeper, and it's like 15 minutes long.
But the TV version.
I can't believe they let that out.
Dude, and he's basically sitting there.
He's like, so tell me about this interview you did with Putin.
And he starts talking about his experience sitting there.
He'd made three trips to Russia and spent over like 20 hours, not 20, probably like 10 hours talking to him.
And it was edited into six hours or four hours.
And then he says other stuff.
And then Stephen Colbert's like, so out of all this, do you have anything negative to say about Putin?
Can you give me one negative thing?
You could tell he's like super upset that he has nothing negative to say about him.
He's just giving his unbiased point of view on it.
He's like, You didn't challenge him on this?
He's like, Look, to be able to get an interview with this fucking guy in the first place, you have to have some mutual respect.
Do you not understand that?
Well, you can't just walk in there and be a fucking dickhead to the guy.
You have to have respect for the guy, you have to understand his position to be able to get this interview in the first place.
And here, well, here's a good example.
Here's where I think they're probably both wrong on each side Colbert and Stone, because Colbert.
Colbert is just fishing for something politically useful for him, for his motives, which is bullshit.
He should be looking at this.
I mean, and it might even be a fair question with the wrong intentions.
But yeah, the one thing Oliver Stone won't have an explanation for here is that the only journalists who get access to the Kremlin, like there's an official meeting that happens, I don't know if it's once a month or something, where the tacit expectation is, It's Russia trying to show, oh, we're open with all the media around the world, but you don't get let back in there again if you say something that they don't like.
So everyone self-censors.
Putin Consolidating Power Before00:14:49
And so he doesn't get this interview.
This is a fact.
He doesn't get this interview unless he has, A, cleared a lot of the things they're going to talk about directly with the Kremlin before, which allows Putin to prepare for it.
And B, says anything that sets Putin off to the point that he can't virtue signal cover for it.
So it's not like I would say in my opinion Oliver Stone is I don't like this phrase at all.
He's like a necessary evil because he's a fuck everybody guy.
He's the guy who makes you have to look introspective regardless of party into the United States and bad things we do.
And I think that's necessary.
But yeah, in the same way that people on another side of an issue could get biased by their own experiences.
Yeah, I think he does too.
So Oliver Stone, who's a guy who's very disillusioned with a lot of things in America, who was a Vietnam War veteran, he saw the worst of what we do, you know, yeah, he's biased.
But it's like, I watch Oliver Stone, I say, okay, we know some shit here.
Like, all right, I don't think Barack Obama belongs in front of the Hague War Tribunal.
All right, let's relax.
But what are some things he's going to say about all the politicians we've had that have an element of truth to them?
And let me try to figure that out.
I mean, I know, but like, it's not all good and it's not all bad.
I don't know why a lot of, I feel like a lot more people do think like this.
They just don't say it out loud.
I hope they do.
Right.
But like, that's a prime example.
So, like, I do want to sit down and watch the full four hour thing.
Yeah.
And see what he got because you can't tell me he didn't get some kernels of something that are at least useful to understand.
Oh, it gives you an extremely fascinating insight on Putin.
And not, I mean, even if it's all just an act he's putting on, he's putting on a damn good fucking act.
Well, he's good at that.
I mean, he must be.
He's a propaganda genius.
If you want to say everything that he said in those interviews is completely an act and false, then he's fucking a damn good salesman and a damn good actor.
Probably not all four hours.
That's pretty hard to do.
Yeah.
But.
A lot of it.
I mean, they know what they're doing, man.
These people.
He says.
They don't care.
Oliver Stone refers to, because it's during the Trump-Hillary election.
He's interviewing him, and he's like, and Hillary's campaigning, and she calls Putin Hitler.
And he asked Putin, he's like, did you see Hillary just called you Hitler yesterday?
He's like, he giggles.
He's like, ah, she's a very dynamic woman.
It could still be funny.
It's hilarious.
Yeah.
I mean, sometimes I'm sure.
Even guys like him got to laugh at some shit that happens in a democracy.
And they sat down together and they watched Dr. Strangelove.
Really?
He showed Putin Dr. Strangelove for the first time.
And what did he say?
I forget.
I don't know.
He gave him the DVD and it was interesting.
I forget exactly what it was.
It was good.
It was great.
But he was like, I've never seen this.
This is very fascinating.
And then Oliver Stone gives him the DVD and gives him the case and the DVD's not in there.
He's like, oh, it's a typical American gift.
Have you ever heard Putin speak English?
Yeah.
He says he has a few words he speaks in English.
It's like you expect this guy to have like the gruff, like smokers, Russian, like I've murdered a thousand people voice.
But he actually talks like, and we will invite you to Russia.
And it's like, he sounds like the mater D.
Yeah, yeah, he does.
What the fuck?
He does.
He's, you know, and Oliver Stoney, I mean, to his credit, he does push him pretty hard in the interviews too.
Like he straight up says, he goes, why did you interfere in our elections?
Why'd you do it?
You know how much power you have in our country.
If you wanted to go endorse Trump, he would lose.
If you wanted to go endorse Hillary, she would lose.
That's how much power you have.
So why did you fuck with our election?
Now, why do you think Putin would allow that question?
Because, I mean, obviously his answer was no, I didn't do anything.
We never interfere with any foreign elections.
We know that.
And so he can just deny.
And people can be like, oh, that's a lie, but whatever.
But when he sits there and answers it and answers it with a face that's clearly like, I'm just giving the response I'm supposed to give, he gets to show power there.
People around the world see that and they go, that son of a bitch did it.
And he doesn't want to believe him.
A certain amount of people are going to believe him too, no matter how much of a lie.
Yeah, like certain people will, but he doesn't care about the people who will because he's already got them.
He cares about the people who don't, which is probably most of the people who are watching it who know anything about the situation because it shows that he not only did it, he's talking to an American on his own turf and saying, fuck you.
Yeah.
No, I didn't do that.
I wonder if that's ever happened the other way around.
I wonder if there's ever been really big note.
Notable Russian journalist or filmmaker who's done that with an American president.
And here's an example for sure.
I don't know an instance, but if you made me bet my not very big bank account, it's got nothing in it.
But if I had to bet all of it, I'd bet, yeah, that's happened.
Really?
Yeah.
I don't know with a Russian journalist specifically, but yeah.
There's no doubt.
I mean, look at.
Well, I think Putin's, whether you want to say he's good or bad, I think he's very effective at his job.
I think he does.
I mean, the guy's been doing it for how long?
Well, that's because he changed.
Whether, no matter how corrupt it is, he changed the goalposts over and over again.
He's not.
The people, the really interesting thing about Russia that David can talk a lot about because he's lived among the people for so long is their psychology.
They are a different breed and they're molded by their environment.
They're molded by over a hundred years of, in some cases, the worst corruption imaginable.
I mean, we don't seem to say this enough, but like Joseph Stalin was, I mean, he was as bad as Hitler in many ways.
Maybe not quite all, but like the closest thing.
For sure.
And like we forget that.
You know, these people live through awful shit.
So there's statues of them everywhere.
Yeah.
Well, I think they've gotten rid of a lot of them, but they probably still, I think so, but they probably still have some.
But like these people, they will believe opposite things.
They will say one thing and then say a thing that directly contradicts that and not think anything of it.
And that, like they will say, David told me this, he's like, they'll say the government is all corrupt and the next thing out of their mouth will be you'll ask them about it.
Current issue and they'll be like I don't know, but the government definitely knows.
So we'll let them deal with it like they are very and it's not their fault, they're just.
You know.
They're the hardened people who pour out the vodka and sit in the ice bath in the middle of the tundra and say I wash my bulls with this and they don't care.
Like they're just, they're they are.
They believe that it's gonna be bad, no matter what.
So you might as well just suck it up and keep going and, like most of you, got to remember when, when the communism fell in 90 or 91, whatever it was, you know, this private, the rapid privatization that the government basically just allowed was corrupt.
People, right people, right time, gave them all the control, the oligarchs.
And so you want to talk about wealth gap, all the wealth went to this small group of individuals.
And then the way that those individuals bought protection, if they weren't already a part of it themselves, was organized crime, which then went through the roof.
And like you talked to the one guy I knew who I'd like to have on the podcast again, Jules Bonavalanta.
He was, uh, one of the main FBI organized crime guys during the height of the Italian-American mafia, like 70s, 80s, 90s.
He invented Donnie Brasco.
That was his idea.
And he told me this over a decade ago when I was young and talking with him.
He's like, you know, the Italians at this point would kind of know what we're getting.
Gamblings, prostitution, occasionally a little whack of guy.
It's like controllable.
But he's like, the Russians?
Russians are some wild shit, man.
They don't give a like, you don't find the body, you find the finger.
And then you find a piece of a toe and like a weird icebox and some acid.
Like it's some next level shit.
And these people, you know, those, that's the worst example, but like Russian mafia over here.
And, you know, they're all tied back to there.
But like they're molded by an environment that has no hope.
They're molded by an environment where this, this is the only way we make money.
We kill.
You don't like it.
Fuck off.
Italians, at least they got to be home in time for dinner.
Yeah.
Yeah.
There's a big, there's, and those guys, don't get me wrong.
They're psychos and they don't feel much, but.
They feel maybe a little.
You know, the Russians are like it's like eastern promises, they're chopping the guy up.
There's a cigarette in their mouth like there's just no hope.
You know yeah it's, but that's, that's it.
Like they're.
They have been up because the way Soviets came to power, they were up, the czars had all the power.
No one had any money.
It's a weird environment it was.
It's still rural, as it's cold, people are miserable, you know.
And then the Soviet Union happened.
We know how that turned out yeah, and then this happened, oh democracy, No.
You know, can you Google the 2020 Russian constitution changes?
Just toss this one right in there during COVID.
It's right under the books.
So, in Russia?
Yeah.
Yeah.
This is how Putin, this is why he consolidated power before doing anything like this.
And, I mean, genius political move.
But, you know, he had to leave office in 2008 because presidents can only serve two terms in the new constitution.
So he puts Medvedev in there, who's a He becomes prime minister Medvedev president and then amendments to the constitution.
Yeah.
Yeah So if you go down Proposed amendments.
Yeah, let's start there.
See that down down down down Proposed amendments.
No, it's like the very bottom the big text the bottom of the screen.
Yeah, so go to the list if you don't mind down very bottom right there.
Yep All right, so where is the Russian constitution will supersede international war International law.
Yeah.
Go down to proposed adoption without a referendum.
Where was the thing?
Basically, I don't know if this is the right page.
Keep looking.
Find something juicy.
Putin removed term limits.
It's gone.
In 2020?
Yeah.
So now he can be president forever.
Because he was coming up on.
I guess like 12 years or something in 2024.
I think there was going to be something.
Or maybe it was 2020 and he was removing it ahead of the election.
So he allowed it to happen.
He also wrote in that in order to become president in Russia, you had to have only lived here for the last 25 years and you cannot have ever held any foreign resident status.
So you can't have a passport anywhere else or have a home anywhere else, which rules out every single oligarch.
So anyone with even a modicum of power in the country.
Cannot seize power.
So now people are talking about, well, who could take over?
The only way that someone would take over would be a straight up coup where they rip up the Constitution, which is going to cause an uprising in the country, which would be disastrous.
But, you know, whatever.
And also, even if the oligarchs replaced them, all these guys are dirty in some way.
Yeah, that's the thing.
Who replaces them?
Right.
And would it be better?
It would probably be better.
Really?
Because, like, he's bad.
I mean, he's just a bad dude.
But.
Minimally.
Like, even notice it's better.
They're still going to have the same complaints.
Oh, Ukraine, they have things on the border.
Maybe we go in.
You know, all right, maybe they didn't do it as brazen and as dumb.
And this, usually Putin hasn't been dumb, but this was dumb, like how he did this one.
But, like, they probably still do it.
I mean, it's hypothetical.
I don't know.
But, you know, they still, it's their country.
It's their land.
Like, they're passionate about it.
And if they're not necessarily a good person and they're not, beholden to the rights of the individual people in their country, because they can do whatever the fuck they want, they're gonna do that.
You know so like.
That's why the propaganda exists and that's why even an interview like out, like Oliver Stone's, he's controlling tacitly what he's being asked.
He knows, so he knows he can use that.
You can't make that happen without being, without having all those questions screened beforehand.
So it's like a lot of journalists I'm sure I haven't seen an instance of this, but maybe someone talked about at some point I'm sure a lot of journalists have had an opportunity to go there but haven't taken it Because they know, like, they're told, well, here's how it works.
They go, fuck that.
Right.
You know we're in a country where, like Jim Acosta and Peter Ducie can exist right, you know, i'm just giving the example of the two sides, with an opposite right party of choice in office and they can just like make a scene that doesn't have in Russia.
You don't hear from that person no no, they're gone.
Like Anna, Anna Polit Never get this name right.
Anna Politoskaya, she was a journalist there, murdered in her home really yeah, and she wrote against Putin.
Boris Nemsov, the opposition leader, Murdered literally right next to the Kremlin.
Have it on video.
You know Boris Nemesov's successor, Alexei Navalny, in prison.
You know, it's not Have you ever seen the the documentary Icarus?
Of course dude.
How fucking wild is that shit?
One of the best docu I mean top five documentary ever made, in my opinion.
Like, like on the edge of your fucking seat, that that fucking thing you will grab that documentary like is so fucking gripping from start to finish.
Yeah, and how that guy is now the uh, the chemist guy is now fucking living here under like a false identity to be to not get killed by Russians.
The fun that guy was like straight out of a Borat movie.
Oh yeah, oh yeah.
The guy was like so hello Brian, I am in danger.
Brian Fogel International Moment00:06:42
He was so funny.
Imagine if you're Brian Fogel though, walking into that you're like doing a documentary to like fake drug yourself and then suddenly this guy's in the middle of like an international moment and his whole life's in danger and you're like I have this all on camera And he's like talking about going through security.
He's like, oh, yeah, we got no problem.
No problem.
I mean, guys, they're hard into it, dude.
You know, you survived.
Oh, yeah, no problem.
We got lucky today.
We got through.
Like, but that's that's these are that's how crazy they are.
He is these are athletes.
It's the Olympics.
It's a symbol.
We must drug them.
We must win.
Yeah, what like that's just how.
I don't know.
It's hard for me to say how I'd be.
I didn't grow up in the Soviet Union.
Right.
You know what I mean?
Like, people are only as good as the environment.
You don't get to choose where you're born, including Putin.
You know, the guy was in the KGB.
Imagine the shit he did and didn't feel anything about because they're taught.
Right.
This is what you do.
You know, think about, like, the people that he probably strangled with his right hand.
I'd probably be crazy, too.
Yeah.
You know, but if you don't do it, you're dead.
Yeah, it's hard to put yourself in somebody else's shoes like that.
It's nuts.
It's also hard to imagine being the president of a country for that fucking long.
And think about it.
We have a new person every four years.
Every four years, someone's brand new.
Right back to the Bustamante argument, by the way.
What was the Bustamante argument?
In a similar vein where he's talking about attacking within versus losing the focus of the outside.
We have a popularity contest every four years.
Right.
Which is like good because it's democracy.
But what does it lead to?
It leads to everyone thinking two minutes out in the news cycle to try to do what's going to not lose them votes.
Right.
And then we don't have term limits in like the most important part of the government.
In the most important part of the government.
Right.
Like what's our excuse there?
Why do these people look like they were my grandparents' grandparents?
Yeah.
People like that Victoria Nuland lady.
And Joe Biden.
She's not even the worst case scenario.
She's not even the worst.
But yes, exactly.
Even Joe Biden in that Ukraine documentary, they go into the whole thing with his son being on the board of that company.
That's the energy company in Ukraine.
Which gets covered up.
And here's the other thing.
He's one dude.
And it was one board.
I mean, it's important.
But there's a lot more other shit that also even Ukraine, they're just getting used.
They don't even.
There's probably guys over there Zelensky doesn't know about.
He's so fucking pregnant.
And that's not his fault.
That's just the world.
But Biden, man.
I used to caddy for someone close to him.
I'll say that.
Oh, yeah.
You got to tell those stories of caddying back in the day.
Yeah.
I didn't.
Dude used to be a professional caddy for one of the fucking most elite golf courses.
There were a couple.
One of them, though, was Wilmington Country Club, which is where Biden's been.
He lives like two minutes from there.
Been there forever.
But I used to caddy a lot for someone close to him.
Never caddied for Joe.
But, you know, I stood there on the practice tee when he walked on, like right here, you know, and all the Secret Service golf carts behind him when he was vice president.
And the last time.
I was within striking distance of him, like literally like walking right here by me, was the summer of 2014.
And it's crazy because he walks on the practice tee and he's like a normal dude.
But he's like, I remember thinking to myself, this dude's 71 years old?
Because he was like yoked.
Oh, really?
Oh, yeah.
He was moving around.
Jim, what's up?
What's up, motherfucker?
I don't know if he said motherfucker, but he's like busting balls to people on the tee.
Like pointing around, doing the whole, like not even politician-y, just like a bro almost.
Gets up there, he's striping the driver off the practice tee, like 240, 250.
I'm like, this fucking guy's a machine.
He might not be too old to run for president.
He might do it.
And then his son died the next year, didn't end up running for president.
But I remember seeing him, this is five years later, he announces his candidacy, four and a half years later.
And I'm like, did that dude have like 10 brain aneurysms since I was old?
Like he went from this like moving around guy, you know, to like, he just fell off instantly, huh?
I never see anything like, I mean, I guess it happens.
It's what happens when you get old, but that quick, though, that quick.
I wonder what the fuck happened.
It had to be something else.
He had something.
I'm not a doctor.
I don't know, but I don't know if he hit his head, something.
He's just like, I did talk with someone this summer whose expertise is with dementia patients who's not a fan of Biden at all.
And she laid out for me for, like an hour, like a while, why he doesn't have dementia, and she's like, because it's her expertise, and she's like pissed off when everyone's playing doctor, but she's like, but he's old as yeah right right, like this is he's only a couple years older than Putin.
I think he's several years older.
Oh is he?
Yeah, I think.
Yeah, I think Biden's like 78 79 okay, but still, like you know, Putin's in a lot better shape, it seems, I guess.
But, like you know, she's like, imagine she, this woman was asking me because she knew my grandfather, and she's like, Love your grandpa, successful guy, smart guy.
Imagine him being president today.
And I'm like, oh no.
And he would be like, oh no Yeah, and she's like well, that's this is what it looks like so it's not dementia, but like I Mean who do I gotta fuck to elect a 50 year old right right like what are we doing right our government is run by it was just Trump before him who was kind of a machine as a person, but like he's old as fuck.
He's from a different generation You get the same generation with Biden And then along the way, you have Mitch McConnell, Chuck Schumer, Nancy Pelosi, whose face has fallen off.
You know, the sproutest guy is like Kevin O'Leary or whatever his name is, who's on term number five, whatever it is.
And I think he's like 60.
What does that guy know about my reality?
Right.
Listeners Finding Every Episode00:00:51
Nothing.
It's insane, man.
It's a crazy fucking world we live in.
Some nut shit, man.
Bro, that was three and a half hours.
No, it wasn't.
Three and a half fucking hours.
My bladder has never gone this far.
I still don't have to pee.
This is crazy.
Every episode, you don't see it, but every episode I have to.
at least once.
Tell all the watchers and listeners where they can find your amazing YouTube channel and all your content.
Thank you for the compliment.
And if you're still here at this point, we've been talking a while.
But you can find me at Trendifyer, T-R-E-N-D-I-F-I-E-R, on, well, TikTok for sure.
But YouTube is where we put the podcast, put it on Apple and Spotify.
You can type in my name, Julian Dory.
It should come up as well.
And yeah, I said we're on TikTok.
So that's the other one where there's some content.
But yeah, we'd love to see you guys join the show.