Shaun Attwood and Matthew Steeples dissect Ghislaine Maxwell's upcoming trial, noting her lawyers' holiday delay request against a potential November 29th start. They analyze four outcomes: a 45-to-60-year sentence with suicide watch, asset depletion from appeals, a mistrial, or her death, while debating whether she will implicate powerful figures like the Clintons or Trump. The discussion extends to Prince Andrew's civil settlement and the possibility of survivor testimony triggering FBI investigations, concluding that Maxwell's refusal to plea bargain risks financial ruin and prolonged legal battles rather than justice. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, WAV2VEC2_ASR_BASE_960H, sat-12l-sm, script v26.04.01, and large-v3-turbo
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Uncovering Ghislaine Maxwell's Truth00:02:37
Hello, world.
The following is a conversation between Sean Atwood and Matthew Steeples, who discuss what will happen to Ghislaine Maxwell during and after her current trial.
I've had Sean on this show many times.
He's the notorious ecstasy kingpin who was exiled from the United States and became a true crime author and podcaster.
Sean has a very deep and comprehensive understanding of the current Ghislaine Maxwell trial, as he's been following, studying, and making videos about Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell for years.
Please enjoy this conversation with Sean Atwood and Matthew Steeples.
Currently, I'm very focused on Miss Maxwell.
I think that is the key thing for me.
Recently, this book came out by my friend Kirby Summers.
This is the book that I recommend you all read.
This is a book that actually delves into the truth of this story.
I think it is far better than anything else out there.
She's going to be writing another book, and you can buy her book on her website and I think via Amazon.
I would suggest it's well worth reading.
It's a book that goes into parts of this story where other people don't dare, and she is very good at researching it.
She quotes a friend of mine, Alexis Parr, in the beginning, and Alexis works for a national newspaper.
She says it is a wonderful, highly original, and wonderful sprint through the glamorous global big business and high society.
Actually, it explains the truth of the fact that this is a story about Ghislaine Maxwell rather than Jeffrey Epstein.
So, you're constantly looking at all new sources of information on the Maxwell case to see if you can glean anything perhaps that you don't already are you not already aware of?
Did you glean anything from this book?
The book was very good because she delved into Ghislaine's past.
Prior to her involvement with Jeffrey Epstein, and what were her motivations and her connections with other people who were of high society who met mysterious ends, including some Greek people that she was involved with.
Her Arrogant Defense Strategy00:10:12
Kashoggi?
No, a Greek family.
And they were all linked to a certain bunch of people who.
In London, met mysterious ends.
And I think that's something we'll talk about another time when we can go through it more properly.
So, the trial date is getting closer and closer.
What, are we less than two months away now?
The trial is beginning allegedly on the 29th of November, but I believe that could possibly be delayed because she has tried to argue, or her lawyers have tried to argue, that.
It will be unfair to the jury because they will miss Thanksgiving and Christmas, and that will be a problem.
And it probably will be moved into the new year, but we don't know.
None of us know what will happen next.
For the moment, the date is the 29th of November, but the date has already been moved once, so it's possible it could be moved again.
She doesn't stand a chance at trial, I believe.
Do you think her lawyers?
Are monetizing her arrogance to line their own pockets?
I think that Miss Maxwell is the most arrogant woman you could possibly imagine.
She barricaded herself in the prison conference room recently with a trolley.
Her behavior is that of an arrogant person.
She's angry she doesn't have enough computers, she's got two.
She's angry she doesn't have access to enough paperwork.
This is a lady who is not going to cave in easily.
She.
If she had a brain, she wouldn't be in the position she was in for a start.
She would have left the country and she'd have gone to France and she would have behaved like Roman Polanski and she could have avoided being detained.
Instead, she bought a house called Tucked Away.
Instead, she used a fake name to buy a house.
She has done everything in her power.
She complains constantly.
She annoys Judge Nathan every day with stupid letters from her stupid lawyer, who I think is actually a poor quality lawyer because she's not doing her a service.
The woman is doing her a disservice representing her in this way.
I would, if I were her, I would try and do some kind of deal, but she hasn't tried that yet, and we're still waiting to see that.
And as we get closer and closer, all she does is put more content on her website.
She uses the people who are helping her, who I won't name because I don't think they deserve the publicity, to harass people who have tried to say things that she doesn't like.
Her brothers are, you know, I don't blame them for.
Wouldn't you protect your sister?
And that's one thing he said, Kevin, and he is right in that regard.
Of course, if it were my sister, I would behave in a similar fashion to him, but it doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.
What kind of threats and cyberbullying and attacks have you come under from covering the Maxwell case?
I receive a number of threatening messages.
I've had threats of lawsuits, I've had threats that are more personal.
I'm kind of used to this from having been involved in the Viscount St. David's case.
I know what level of threat is very dangerous and what isn't, and most of them are cranks, but you never know.
What maximum sentence is Maxwell facing if she loses on all counts at trial?
And what will her fate be after she is sentenced to such a big, hefty amount?
She would be facing between 45 and 60 years, I would.
Say, from what I've gathered from what I've read elsewhere, so she would die in prison.
There is no way out once she is in prison.
If that happens, she will be there for the rest of her life and it will not be a pleasant experience for her.
And she is not doing anything to minimize that.
From what I see yet, she.
She's been totally uncooperative to date, so she hasn't done herself any favours.
So, people are going to be just absolutely wondering what happens to her next when she's sentenced.
And from my experience, I was in Arizona State, so people with crimes of that nature would get sent to a sex offender's yard whereby they would not get attacked by the general population.
Now, we recently interviewed one of the NatWest 3, one of the Enron 3, Giles Darby, who got sent to a mafia prison in the federal system.
Maxwell is going to be in the federal system.
So he's at this prison where there was predominantly a lot of mafia characters, but there was also paedophiles.
So it seems that there are some federal prisons that have mixed populations.
Do you think that she will be classified as such a high profile case?
That she would have to go to a special prison for sex offenders?
Because Giles said that the sex offenders in his prison, they're given a story by the guards.
You know, I wasn't, they're going to say that they weren't doing such and such.
They were doing bank fraud, for example.
That's their cover story.
Do you think because she's so high profile, they will have to classify her to a yard where.
She's going to be other people with similar crimes to reduce the likelihood of her getting killed by the inmates.
I think it would be absolutely impossible in the world of social media and the amount of press coverage she has had that anybody would be able to pretend she wasn't who she is.
It's absolutely impossible to hide her identity because she is who she is.
And the acreage of coverage has been so vast so far, and it will get more and more and more.
That she's not safe anywhere.
So they will have to create some way of keeping her safe.
You know, in the same way in England, I suppose, you know, you have Rose West and you have Myra Hindley, and people like that had to be dealt with in a different way.
You know, the Bolger case, you know, those two boys that committed that terrible crime, you know, you have to treat people like that in a different way because they will be attacked.
And.
Whatever she's done, you know, I don't think someone should be able to kill her.
You know, I think that would be a terrible thing.
Or, you know, abuse her.
As was said this morning in this talk, she was allegedly abused by her own father.
But that doesn't make it right what she's done to other people.
But it doesn't make it right that other people should then be able to abuse her again in prison.
So I believe that if she does receive the double digits that Matthew.
Proposed as the maximum sentence, she will be fast tracked to suicide watch immediately because she will be in shock.
Right now, she's clinging on to the hope of getting out.
That desperation is being monetized by her lawyers who are just going to max every motion out.
As we've seen, I've lost count of the bail bond appeals now, which are completely futile, other than the money.
We're talking five attempts at bail.
And all sorts of other things that she's technicalities she's tried.
Nothing works because the problem is that she's been proven to be a liar like her father.
You know, in this book, one of the quotes is I have a beautiful daughter and she's just like me, and that is what sums her up.
She has the same arrogance as Robert Maxwell.
She's so arrogant, she thinks that this will all still go away.
She still thinks that Prince Andrew could come riding in on Shergar the racehorse, you know, and save her from everything.
It is a completely ludicrous state of affairs.
Her friends have mostly deserted her.
There are friends out there who I speak to.
A lady we both know, she continues to say, you know, Ghislaine is somebody who just got into the wrong crowd and it wasn't her fault and she didn't do anything wrong and poor her.
But she did.
She was there.
It's proven.
The flight records prove it.
She tried to say that GM wasn't her on the flight records.
On one flight, it was GM and Kevin Maxwell.
Now, the chances of it being someone called George is pretty low.
She continues to lie.
She claimed to be a citizen of Terramar when interrogated by the FBI.
This is a woman who lives in fantasy land.
She is completely crackpot.
She's mad.
And she's been indulged in her entire life.
And now it's finally caught up with her.
And it is time that she and Prince Andrew and all the others answered some questions and behaved themselves and took responsibility.
In society, we have rights, but we also have responsibility.
And she committed crimes.
I believe.
Living in Fantasy Land00:13:57
Now, the jury will decide whether she committed those crimes and the level of those crimes, but frankly, it is time she answered to justice.
So, if she does go to trial, and there's still quite a good chance that there'll be a last minute plea bargain, but if she does go to trial, which she will lose because the public opinion is just insane on this, she does have a wild card up her sleeve, which I'm going to ask Matthew about next.
But let's just say the normal course of events, she gets sentenced to decades in prison.
There's a period of adjustment of the brain whereby she's going to go through a period of shock where she will be on suicide watch.
In a suicide watch part of the prison, the prison will be pretty burst, stripped out, you know, nowhere she can hang herself.
And every so many hours, guards will come and check on her.
She'll have a major psychiatric evaluation.
They may put on some kind of medication to stabilize the shock that she's in during that period of time because it's that period of time when, if she is going to self harm or go all the way, a prisoner is most at risk after receiving a life sentence.
And the Federal Bureau of Prisons knows that, so they will try and handle her accordingly.
Once she is determined by the psychiatric professionals that she's no longer at risk of suicide, then she will be reclassified.
To a different prison.
She will be classified, I believe, to a prison that houses people with like crimes.
Her security status will probably be very high in the beginning.
She will have to prove herself over time to move down in security status.
So the likelihood is that she's going to be locked down for a considerable period of time.
Whether they give her a cellmate or whether she's got neighbors, I mean, the costs of maintaining a whole floor for this woman are astronomical.
So, she will end up on a run of prisoners.
These prisoners may not be allowed out of their cells because the security level is so high, but there is a chance that after suicide watch, she will have a cellmate.
They may just go from suicide watch to single cell first to see how she behaves, but at some point, she's going to have to adjust to living with a cellmate.
So, as she comes out of this shock phase and just starts to think, you know, I've got to make the most of this situation, I've got to get through each day.
I'm going to launch my appeal now.
I'm going to cling on to the hope of this appeal getting me out.
That will be the next swing of her brain because right now, all of these lawyers that are milking her dry have pumped her up with this idea that she can win at trial, which is preposterous, while they're making millions off the back of that notion.
But the next thing that they will do, they will come at her and they'll start to visit her in the prison through the legal visitation room and they'll be telling her, the appeal.
Now we've got to work on the appeal.
This is how they can line their pockets again, but also if the wild card comes into play, this is a way that she could get out.
So, what often happens in these very high profile cases that are PR dynamite for prosecutors, they want to get a headline making sentence.
Everyone goes home from that sentencing hearing, you know, watch the headline news that she got the maximum aggravated sentence.
This woman is convicted of the most heinous crimes in society.
She's got what she deserves.
All the public are satisfied by that.
You know, the need for blood is satiated.
But two or three years down the road, when this is no longer the biggest reported true crime story in the media, when you kick the right amount of backsheesh to an appeals court judge, she could slip through the cracks.
And the way that road is greased is through her connections to the current administration.
So, we know about the relationship with the Clintons.
We know the Clintons have got many people embedded in the present administration.
We know, going way back to the Boys on Tracks and the CIA operation through Arkansas, the drug trafficking, that the Clintons have got massive ties to intelligence.
And those relationships, rolling forward to the present day, could be utilized to get to some kind of backdoor exit.
Down the road, so satisfy the public for now, but let her out early.
So many years down the road, when there's not so much interest in the case, thoughts let's look back at some of the cases I've previously written a lot about Max Clifford, Rolf Harris, people like that.
The public wanted a certain result, they wanted those people locked up.
And Rolf, you know, Max Clifford didn't ever get out, so you can't compare that, but um.
Rolf Harris, you know, he's out and they all try the appeal route.
The first thing she is going to do, if she loses, will be to appeal.
Appealing is the natural course of action of her lawyers.
If she loses, they'll want to make some more money and they'll lead her further up the garden path and they'll hope that they get a better judge because it's all about who you get.
And at the moment, she's got a judge that she's annoyed.
She really has annoyed this current judge.
You know, her behavior has been annoying.
She keeps going after this bail.
She barricades herself in the cell.
She moans about her conditions.
All she does is send stupid letters.
Well, her lawyer sends stupid letters that cause irritation.
And frankly, I don't think her choice of behavior is going to help her in this first instance.
But even if she were to lose, she.
Would continue down the same path because she's got this arrogance about her.
I've seen it from other members of that family, and you can see it from the way the father behaved.
Now, the father was a megalomaniac, and he molded her to be like him.
She has had every connection in the world, she's lived in utter luxury.
People call it a gilded cage, but you know, she had complete freedom, she didn't have to do anything bad.
Nobody ever forced her to do anything bad.
Her brothers were able to reinvent themselves without committing crimes of this nature in the wake of their father's crime.
You know, they lived in mansions in Oxfordshire.
That didn't seem to come to an end.
Everyone says, you know, poor her, she lived in poverty.
She never lived in poverty.
She'd still got powerful friends.
There was still money floating around.
She didn't have to go into the world of being involved with a taxi driver who suddenly became a man who lived in an $80 million house, and nobody forced her into this.
And everybody who says we must have sympathy for her is completely wrong.
You know, the last time I encountered her, I didn't know I was in the same place.
She was at a car rally for women that were sexually trafficked.
This woman has no sense of what is right and wrong.
And equally, the lady that ran that charity called Cash and Rocket, I've written to her on multiple occasions and asked why she was involved with her, given.
She knew she must have known that this lady had been involved with Jeffrey Epstein.
You know, what is wrong with all these people?
At the end of the day, we all have to make choices in life, and there is the right thing to do and there's the wrong thing to do.
And this lady will continue to go down the route of being crazy.
She will not ever take responsibility for what she did, and that is why she'll immediately launch into an appeal if she loses.
So, if the case does go to trial and the Clinton name is not mentioned, would that be an indication that some behind the scenes deal has been struck?
The mention of the Clintons, I don't believe, will occur because she knows who to upset and who not to upset.
I think she will mention other people.
I've been sent various lists of people she will mention.
I think they'll probably be the people we don't expect.
They will probably be actors and minor politicians rather than the most powerful people.
Why do you think Donald Trump said, I wish her well?
So let's just have a look at the, you know, we're trying to analyze every scenario of what could happen at trial here.
So, there is the possibility of her being found innocent.
There is indeed.
I give that.00.
I would say that's less than 1%.
If she was found innocent, what would that indicate to you that the fix was in beforehand?
If she was found innocent, all hell would break loose because there has been so much about this and there have been so many people dragged into this and there are so many people who have.
Been able to prove things that are completely true and things that she has said already that are complete lies.
You know, she's lied about so many things, including, you know, the flights, and there are many other people who've lied, like, for example, President Clinton, who claimed he'd only been on the plane four times, but he'd been on it over 20.
It would be a truly, I don't want to use the word, no, it would be very.
It would be a disaster for many people, it really would, because this has ruined a lot of lives and these victims are not prepared to shut up.
And the photograph, I think, is the key thing.
The photograph of Prince Andrew, which he has continually tried to discredit, and to his shame, has said, I've never met this woman.
I know, I've spoken with lots of people who are elderly, and they are very big supporters of the monarchy, and they say, without what every single one of them has said to me, this.
This man should be ashamed of himself for embarrassing his mother by pretending he never met this woman.
It is a very disrespectful thing to do.
He could do the right thing and say, I met this lady but nothing happened.
That would be the correct way for him to behave.
Equally, with her, she could say, I was brought into this and I didn't really know what was going on, whatever her excuse could be.
But instead, she pretends nothing ever happened.
That Geoffrey did nothing wrong, she did nothing wrong, nobody did anything wrong.
Well, some of the people who've made allegations could be telling lies, but equally, there's a lot of evidence to suggest that a lot of it is true.
And it is time she took some responsibility.
What about Prince Andrew taking responsibility?
Indictment or whatever legal papers he was served with, are they asking him?
Could you explain what he has been served with?
Prince Andrew has been served with legal papers that relate to a civil case.
It is not a criminal case, and if he settles the case, it does not mean he did anything.
It's absolutely a matter of payment for civil damages.
The alleged victim, Virginia Roberts, She has already been paid by both Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell.
They have both reached civil settlements.
By doing so, they did not admit that they did anything to her.
The public may take their own view, but they made a payment.
Instead, Prince Andrew has tried to avoid even being served with the papers.
He has now accepted those papers.
After a game of cat and mouse, in which he's hidden away, trying to hide behind his mother's coattails at Balmoral, and again bringing unnecessary attention to his poor mother, who is a grieving widow.
The Cost of a Second Case00:04:00
And he hasn't even bothered to go and see his own grandchild.
He thinks that avoiding it is the way forward.
He is not helping himself through his actions.
Okay, so there is yet another possibility.
It's not just a case of guilty.
And not guilty.
A third outcome is a mistrial.
And from speaking to, I think it was Giles Darby recently, he was telling us about federal court system mistrials.
If you have a mistrial, then you have to have another trial.
It just all starts from scratch, which is an absolute windfall for the lawyers.
And in cases where people don't have much money, it is a strategy that will wipe you out financially because you cannot.
You know, you may have all this money for your first trial, pay a high priced lawyer hundreds of thousands, and you're wiped out.
We're talking millions.
Millions in this case.
And then you have a mistrial, and then your lawyer says, Right, we've got to start from scratch.
Here's my bill for the new trial.
And you're like, but now I'm hundreds of thousands in debt for the first trial.
I've got no assets left, and the lawyer may just walk away, and you're stuck with a public defender, which won't happen in Glen's case because she's got this 20 million legal war chest.
But there is the possibility of a mistrial.
She has $28 million in assets, but some of those assets are tied up.
It's going to be very hard for her to get financing.
I knew.
Somebody who the family approached to try and get her mortgages, and they were told, no, people do not want to finance her.
And yes, you are right.
If there is a mistrial, it could go the same way as this particular case Lyle Menendez, Eric Menendez.
You know, a second case is another very costly thing.
The Menendez family were very wealthy, like her, and the money is gone.
It's all gone.
Because law firms eat money.
I've had personal experience of law firms and I've spent a lot of money on legal fees.
It is a very costly exercise.
My friends who've gone through legal fees, I'm sure Sean, you've spent your family, spent considerable money trying to help you in your case.
It is something you can't, Jeremy Bamba, you name the case, these people spend fortunes.
And once The money's gone, it's gone.
And in the legal system, even if the second trial might lead to a verdict which she prefers, getting back that money, it doesn't, it takes years and years.
I have a friend who went, he lost his home, he lost everything in a court system.
And he was eventually able to get something back, but it took 10 years.
And that's 10 years of your life.
And you don't get that back.
And she is a 60 something year old woman.
By the time this is all over, if there were a second trial, she'd be in her late 70s.
And frankly, you know, you lose the will to fight.
What does a mistrial mean?
What things could trigger a mistrial in this case?
And what do you think the likelihood of a mistrial is in this case?
I think the likelihood of a mistrial is very low.
A mistrial would be based upon perhaps one of the alleged victims having told lies.
There are discrepancies, I will admit, in certain elements of certain stories.
Low Likelihood of Mistrial00:07:42
People have made allegations about certain people involved.
In the case of Prince Andrew, one of the victims said that something occurred after they'd been drinking cocktails together.
Prince Andrew doesn't drink.
If there is enough of this that builds up into something in her case, then maybe something could be done for her, but I don't see how that would happen.
Do you believe that Ghislaine will be called to the stand and she will accept that she will agree to testify?
I actually believe that Ghislaine will want to be on the stand.
She's got the same attitude as her father, she loves the public stage.
She is the only member of the family who has alleged that their father was murdered.
This is a girl that does not follow the rules.
She doesn't play by the rules, and that was why she was the favourite daughter.
That is why the boat was named after her and not her sister Isabel or her mother.
I think that this is a woman that will want her moment because she's so angry with the world.
And why do I say that?
She's created a website.
Most people who are awaiting trial don't go around creating websites where they talk about reading Boris Johnson's book.
They don't talk about how they share a cell with a rat.
They keep themselves humble.
They don't go around annoying the judge by slamming themselves into a prison conference room and blockading the door.
They don't do five bail attempts when they've been told no four times already.
This lady doesn't sound to me like someone who will give up.
She wants her moment and she doesn't believe that any of this is going to lead to her conviction.
She does as she wishes.
So, in pre trial, you can't show any remorse as it would be taken as an indication of guilt.
At trial, What do you think her strategy will be if she speaks on her own behalf?
Is she going to protest her innocence?
Is she going to blame it on the dead guy?
I believe that she will go down the route of blaming Jeffrey Epstein, saying she didn't know what he did.
She wasn't so closely involved with him.
She continued to support him as a friend because he'd been kind to her when her father died.
There'll be a bit of that.
She will claim that these girls, she doesn't know anything about them, you know, it wasn't her fault.
She is somebody who will have every angle covered so she can just blame everybody but herself.
She is a selfish lady who has been overindulged for her entire life.
I've met many people of her type.
Once you are so spoilt and you're the daughter of somebody so rich, You only have to look at someone like, say, Philip Green.
His daughter, you know, another example of a spoilt young lady who just misbehaves.
She took up with a convict who she had a child with, and now he's been chucked out.
And, you know, these people, they do as they wish, and they have no acceptance of the consequence of what their families have done to ordinary people.
Will the prosecutor be calling survivors to the stand?
I would think that Virginia Roberts will be there.
I think perhaps Anoushka de Georgiou, who I've met on a number of occasions, who subsequently went out with David Hasselhoff.
There may be others, Maria Farmer.
There will certainly be the key person, in my view, the man who did the technical things on the island, who.
I think he is somebody who seems to know a lot more than others.
There will be a lot of staff from the home in Palm Beach, the home in New York, perhaps the ranch.
I don't think there'll be anybody from Britain.
So, doesn't that have the possibility of opening Pandora's box?
Because you mentioned earlier that Ghislaine, under no circumstances, will mention the Clintons and Aisha and Prince Andrew.
But the survivors have no such restrictions.
So if Virginia recounts the episode on the island whereby underage East European girls were, I'm just going to say to euphemize, engaged in activity with Prince Andrew, Maxwell, and Epstein, all participants, if Virginia recounts that in the federal court system, isn't that going to just like.
The world's going to go crazy, the news is going to go crazy, there's going to have to be investigations launched.
More indictments pending?
I think those people are capable of saying whatever they wish to say, but Prince Andrew will just simply refuse to travel to America, and that will be that.
And the British government will not want a diplomatic incident, and the American government will not want a diplomatic incident.
But there are other people who are less important.
You only have to look at the fact that the French were so easy to.
Arrest this Jean Luc Brunel, they got him.
You know, there are certain people who can be sacrificed.
So, if Epstein was suicided to prevent what Maxwell presents right now, this very same threat, is there a fourth possibility then?
We've got guilty, not guilty, mistrial.
Is there a fourth possibility that she may not even survive?
Before this trial commences, I am not a conspiracy theorist.
I don't know whether Jeffrey Epstein was killed or not killed.
It seems from the likelihood of possibilities that he was allowed to get himself to a position where he could do that, kill himself.
I would think the man realized his time was up and he thought, I better go.
I think that is highly more likely than him being killed, but he could have been killed.
I don't know.
I'm not a conspiracy theorist.
I don't think she will kill herself because she is somebody who has the arrogance of her father.
She is a survivor.
I don't know whether Robert Maxwell killed himself.
I think he fell off the back of the boat and he probably just gave up on the will to live because he knew his time was finished.
But I don't think she actually has reached that stage.
She is somebody who continues.
To cause trouble from her prison cell, she is still a nuisance, she doesn't accept her situation yet.
Naomi Campbell's Survival Instincts00:09:09
And she has a website, she has PR people, she has a man called Brian Basham who is that he ran the dirty tricks campaign for British Airways, and a man whose name I won't mention who trolls me continually.
He was involved, he was chucked out of UKIP to end up in the Conservative Party, and he has a website.
And these people are completely.
Under her thumb.
They do as they're told and they spin her lies.
This is not someone ready to give up.
I don't think she's prepared to go yet.
So, again, then, the situation that was remedied by Epstein's death is now imminent because of the possibility of trial.
These big names that could potentially come out must be feeling a bit embarrassed.
Embarrassed.
And we've got to do something about this before it's too late, kind of thing, because.
Well, they're all.
The famous names are all trying to spin their way out of it.
You know, Naomi Campbell, we talked of earlier, I have a quote from her here somewhere.
Yes, I knew him.
I was introduced to him on my 31st birthday by my ex boyfriend, Flavio Briatore, a good friend of Bernie Eccleston.
He was always front row.
You know, I've stood next to hundreds of people to take a picture.
What he's done is indefensible.
I was sickened to my stomach.
I didn't know about him.
You know, I stand with the victims, they're scarred for life.
They all have a little story as to why they, you know, were with him.
And some of them, unfortunately, have stronger connections to the pair of them than others.
So the address book, you know, if you are Bernie Eccleston, you're in the address book with a phone number and a fax number.
That's it, the address.
If you're Prince Andrew, you have 17 phone numbers.
If you're the Duchess of York, you have about the same.
There are people who are very closely aligned with them, and then there are people who are just pure acquaintances.
I've spoken with people who the general public wouldn't know of, English aristocrats, people like that.
They were people that she'd known when she was at Oxford University.
They were her friends.
You know, every one of us has met people and we've given them our phone number, and then we've never ever heard from them again.
And if they were to go on trial, the police could come to us and say, You're in the address book.
You're a danger.
You could be, what did you do?
And you could say, well, I met this person once.
And that was it.
And then there are other people who were like the Clintons.
They went, well, Bill Clinton, he went on that plane over 20 times.
How can that man say he didn't have a friendship with that person?
If you are, if you're going on someone's private plane 20 times, you have developed a relationship with that person.
It's slightly different to just meeting.
You know, if we just met at a party in this very room last night and then we sat down and had a drink today, that is a very different thing.
Do you think that Naomi Campbell was just present when these trafficked girls were being abused, or do you think there is a deeper involvement?
I think that Naomi Campbell is probably in the same position as Lady Victoria Harvey, that she spent considerable amounts of time with Jeffrey Epstein.
Probably Naomi Campbell was not his type, but maybe Naomi Campbell introduced other people to him.
I don't know whether that was the case, but I think that was the motive of having her in the room.
And I'm sure for Ghislaine, it was probably the same thing, and there was probably the connection with Leslie Wexner and Victoria Seadrook.
So, Lady Colin Campbell, who we recently interviewed, caused massive controversy on, I think it was Breakfast TV in the UK.
She did.
And one of the themes was ebophile versus paedophile.
I didn't even know what an ebophile was until recently.
What comments do you have on that controversy?
I personally think that she made a very grave error.
I don't know the lady.
I've never met her.
I've been in the same room as her.
I think what Guylaine Maxwell is alleged to have done and what Jeffrey Epstein was convicted of having done is reprehensible, disgusting, revolting, evil, sick, and wrong.
And I can go a lot further.
And I think people like that, it doesn't matter what label you attach to them, they are disgusting and they should be punished for doing something so reprehensible and wrong to children.
You don't abuse children, and there's no excuse for it.
So, I have very strong views on this.
Sorry.
So, do you think that at trial Maxwell will throw some people under the bus but they will be lower level people?
And we know already that the legal quagmire of investigating people who had been procured who later became procurers has been solved because all those procurers now, those alleged procurers, Have agreed to testify against Maxwell.
So, who's left for her to throw under the bus if she can only go down and not give up any of the bigs?
Well, I have been sent lists, but I don't know what list is true, of course.
I know as much as the magician at the end of the road.
You know, who has a clue who she's going to actually go after?
But it's been mostly actors and minor politicians, people none of you would ever have heard of.
It will not be the big names.
It won't be Donald Trump.
It won't be Bill Clinton.
It won't be Prince Andrew.
One person who has written to me who claims to know has suggested Prince Andrew will be thrown under the bus, but no, I don't see that happening.
She is not a stupid woman.
I will say that.
She's a very, very bright lady.
And she knows where her allegiances lie.
And she is still in connection, according to one of my sources, with a former wife of Donald Trump in prison.
I don't know whether that's true or not.
Because obviously, none of us know.
We don't know really what's going on.
But the person who has given me that information is somebody I believe.
She is more likely to.
Destroy people she thinks won't be able to fight back.
So, the possibilities we've roamed over so far are guilty, not guilty, mistrial, suicide, and last minute plea bargain.
The sixth possibility then is that the trial date is moved to next year.
Which side would request that, do you think?
Upon what grounds?
And is there a possibility that that may happen?
Ghislaine's lawyers have already.
Requested that the trial be moved because they think it's unfair to the jury that they miss out on Thanksgiving and obviously Christmas could get in the way.
You know, she wants her turkey and she wants it now, you know, she wants everything.
She's a bit like Eloise at the Plaza Hotel, you know, but she's sadly in the Manhattan Detention Center.
But she is the one trying to have the date moved.
The judge wants to get on with it.
So, concluding this interview, then, I think the title will probably be What Next for Maxwell, or, you know, What's going to Happen at Maxwell's Trial.
Do you have anything to say in conclusion on this matter?
I think that Ghislaine Maxwell would be wise to do a plea bargain.
I don't believe Ghislaine Maxwell will do a plea bargain.
I do believe Prince Andrew should go and face the FBI and answer some questions.
I don't believe he will.
And I believe all the other people who are trying to spin their way out of this would do well to try and be assistant, do the right thing.
What Next for Maxwell00:00:44
And that is all I have to say, really.
So, a huge thank you to Matthew Steeples for sharing his information and knowledge.
You can support Matthew at The Steeples Times.
You will probably be watching this on Odyssey, so I shall remember to put Matthew's links in the description box on the Odyssey version.
And also, Matthew is quite active on Twitter, where he has many people reach out and ask him questions or stalk him.
So, you're welcome to join in over there as well.
You are all very welcome to send me any questions you wish via Twitter, and I will happily try and answer them for you.