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Dec. 14, 2023 - Triggered - Donald Trump Jr

01:24:27

Tucker Carlson is the Establishment's Sworn Enemy, Exclusive Interview | TRIGGERED Ep.93

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	you you
	you hey guys welcome to another huge
	episode of triggered Tonight's episode is definitely going to be one of my favorite interviews yet.
	We're joined by the great, by the one and only Tucker Carlson, who's launching a new media company.
	We're going to cover a lot of ground.
	It's going to be a lot of fun.
	Tucker's always... Great for a soundbiter, too.
	Just the way he looks at the world, so I'm super excited about what he's doing.
	But it's going to be wide-ranging, and I'm sure it will drive the fake news frauds in the media absolutely insane.
	And if we accomplish only that, it will be worth it.
	So you're not gonna wanna miss this one at all.
	Make sure you guys are liking, make sure you guys are sharing and subscribing.
	You know, make sure you're following me and the channel, the Trigger channel on Rumble
	so you don't miss any of these interviews.
	And after they air here on Rumble, you can also find them on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.
	So if you're getting your podcast that way, you know, or if you're traveling,
	you may be over the holidays or doing a lot of driving You can also listen and see the ones that you miss or can't catch live here.
	So we're going to get to Tucker just ahead.
	But first, we gotta do a rundown of the top headlines because it's absolutely crazy
	what's going on in America right now.
	Joe Biden is literally driving our country off a cliff.
	We've almost become numb at this point, folks, to how out of control the border is.
	It's important we don't let what's going on become normal.
	It's not normal, folks.
	In 2019, Obama's former Homeland Security Secretary, Jeh Johnson, said that if 4,000 people cross the border
	in a day, that's a, quote, crisis.
	4,000. Well, last week, 12,000 people were caught in one day, in one day, crossing the border.
	That's three times the Obama crisis.
	The Obama crisis threshold.
	Think of how insane that is.
	Usually when you think of the border, you think of Mexicans or Guatemalans crossing it, but the whole world is now coming across our porous Swiss cheese border, including lots of Chinese.
	Look at this massive group of Chinese men at the border just the other day.
	You'll notice in a lot of these videos that no one is even attempting,
	Even attempting to evade capture at the border.
	These illegals actually turn themselves in.
	That's the problem.
	Legals don't have to sneak into the country because they know they will be released into the country and given free healthcare and housing.
	Right? The only ones that are actually sneaking in are probably the terrorists and these who are well-funded and creating sleeper cells all over the place.
	It's going to be a disaster.
	That's obvious.
	To rich liberals, the reality of our border just isn't a problem.
	They don't care. The thing that scares them is if my father got back into office and actually started enforcing immigration law.
	This is for yourself. This is truly special stuff.
	What would a second Donald Trump term look like?
	Well, he cannot be the next president.
	Because if he is...
	You can't imagine the things that he's going to do.
	Mexico, Canada.
	We can't go to Canada because eventually Canada will become annexed to America.
	And shoot visitors to the White House.
	Yeah. That means he can shoot the First Lady.
	We're going to see violence the likes of which we didn't even see on January 6th.
	Make it illegal to run against him, to throw his opponents in jail, to shut down the media.
	He will make himself into the Fuhrer and he will make everybody raise their hand and salute him.
	Using martial law against the American people.
	Terminate the Constitution.
	Rewrite the Constitution.
	Create mass internment camps.
	Biden cares so little about immigration enforcement that he's even planning on closing an immigration detention facility.
	You know, so at a time where the numbers are the highest they've ever been, they're actually closing down facilities because I guess it's just easier to release them into the country.
	This crisis is completely Joe Biden and the Democrats' fault.
	This is their policy doing this.
	He's doing everything he possibly can to encourage it.
	And don't buy, by the way, folks, the Biden smoke screens that all of a sudden he might start caring about the border because his poll numbers are so bad.
	Okay? Don't buy it.
	It's nonsense. I've seen some bad ones, folks. I promise you. Before I got into this world, I was in business.
	I saw some of the dumbest pitches I've ever possibly seen.
	His message to critics of Ukraine aid, don't worry about building roads.
	Just focus on defending Ukraine.
	Meaning, don't worry about your border, your problems.
	Defend Ukraine.
	Send us missiles and drones.
	They want us to also fund their pensions.
	We have trillions in unfunded pension liability right here at home.
	Americans who've worked for their entire lives are going to be depending on it.
	And it doesn't exist, folks.
	It's fictitious. It's a trillion dollar problem here at home.
	But we should take care of their pensions, too.
	Watch for yourself. What do you say to critics who are saying that?
	I say, such person from government or mayors, think about the war, think about how to defend our people.
	Don't travel through the world each day.
	Travel to the front line.
	Ask people, ask soldiers what they need.
	Do this. Not build roads for today.
	Don't do it. Spend all your money to the weapon, to the drones, to the society, to the pensions, and etc.
	And don't cry. Because you're leaders.
	And that's it. That's why we are.
	And that's why we stay.
	Because mostly people, people are not crying.
	People stay and fight against Putin.
	And we don't have any enemies in our country.
	We can't have time for this.
	And we don't have it.
	We have only one enemy.
	This is Putin. And that's it.
	But you'll stand from democracy going forward?
	Yes, of course. And of course.
	Because we are really defending democracy and we are really defending freedom.
	Mr. President, we appreciate your time and we'll continue to follow the war.
	The Democrats are completely hysterical and they're demanding that we send billions, billions
	more of dollars to Ukraine.
	Republicans in the Senate and in the House are finally taking a much needed stand.
	They're refusing to send over tens of billions of dollars over to Ukraine until Biden agrees
	to some border security measures.
	Now, I'm not gonna hold my breath.
	And I'm not sure it's a quid pro quo.
	We've spent $130 billion in Ukraine, and we can't articulate what we've even gotten for it.
	The Pentagon's lost more.
	They've admitted they don't know where the money is.
	They have no idea where it's being spent.
	I have a feeling we're creating an oligarch class of billionaire Ukrainians who are stealing it all.
	But, you know, that's just obvious.
	Now, we shouldn't be sending Zelensky any money regardless, guys.
	Again, it's just being stolen.
	But this is a welcome change for a change.
	This fight is revealing how Democrats care more about Ukraine's border than America's.
	Just watch this clip of Nancy Pelosi the other night on MSNBC. My pleasure, but remember, the longer they take for Ukraine, more people will die, more women will be raped, more children will be kidnapped, and it'll be all on them.
	We have to get them to move.
	This says it all, folks.
	She doesn't care about illegal immigrants murdering and raping Americans.
	I mean, who cares? She cares more about Ukrainians than the people she's elected to represent.
	Mitch McConnell and the other RINO Senate Republicans are willing to give Ukraine all the money we can send them.
	What about, like, maybe taking care of Americans?
	I mean, I understand that's off the table for them.
	How is it so disjointed?
	They're just asking for a tiny bit of border security and the Democrats are unwilling to give it.
	Biden wants Ukraine to be able to protect itself while America just has to accept becoming a dumping ground of the third world.
	And while we're there, no legal consequences for illegal immigrants.
	What about our favorite crackhead Hunter Biden, who refused to show up for his congressional testimony this week?
	I'm actually looking, and I've been waiting.
	I'm holding my breath. I'm looking for the same amount of outrage from the media as they would have had if I blew off one of my five congressional subpoenas.
	But since they're covering for Joe Biden and his corruption, I'm not going to hold my breath.
	But he needs to be held in contempt of Congress.
	He needs criminal charges.
	They're trying to do the smokescreen again.
	We talked about this last week of, well, no, he wants to testify publicly.
	It's not the same.
	You don't have the ability to get into the details.
	There's so much here.
	He needs the full Donald Trump Jr.
	treatment. I did that...
	They pushed Russia, Russia for years.
	I did 40 hours for a 20 minute meeting.
	There's so much more in the Hunter Biden stuff.
	Then even meets the eye, he should probably be there for weeks.
	And then, and then, once they actually have the details to be able to look into, then we can do the public testimony.
	I'm all for it. But the Democrats pretending that the testimony of Hunter publicly is about transparency, it's not.
	It's the way to make sure you don't get into the details, and that's how it actually works.
	If they were intellectually honest, they'd tell you that, but they ain't.
	Hunter Biden blatantly lied during his press conference and said that his father had no financial involvement in his business.
	The New York Times conveniently altered that headline because, again, the Democrats, the mainstream media, big tech, they are running cover for Joe Biden, the Democrat agenda, and the insanity that they've brought to America.
	What was the 10% for the big guy email all about, folks?
	It must be something.
	Couldn't be about Joe Biden.
	Even if we have the wire transfers, even if you have the phone records, even if you have the photos and the admissions of the other Hunter Biden business partners, it must all be wrong, right?
	They must have got it wrong.
	He's innocent. He also had the nerve.
	Hunter Biden, of all people, had the nerve to lecture us about decency.
	About decency.
	Hunter Biden. Watch this one.
	James Comer, Jim Jordan, Jason Smith and their colleagues have distorted the facts by cherry-picking lines from a bank statement, manipulating texts I sent, editing the testimony of my friends and former business partners, and misstating personal information that was stolen from me.
	There is no fairness or decency in what these Republicans are doing.
	They have lied over and over about every aspect of my personal and professional life, so much so that their lies have become the false facts believed by too many people.
	No matter how many times it is debunked, they continue to insist that my father's support of Ukraine against Russia is the result of a non-existent bribe.
	They displayed naked photos of me during an oversight hearing.
	Yeah, decency.
	The guy who films himself smoking crack with prostitutes on end.
	The guy who didn't and refused to pay child support while spending almost a million dollars in a four-year period on drugs and hookers.
	Who took out 1.6 million in that same period of time.
	In ATM cash withdrawals, couldn't pay for child support.
	Yeah, no, this guy's going to lecture us on decency.
	This guy is the moral person we're going to be looking for for the definition of decency.
	But again, the media will cover for him, the Democrats.
	No, no, no, it's addiction, folks.
	Addiction doesn't absolve you from being a total piece of shit in every other aspect of your life, folks, just so we're clear.
	We all know people that suffer from addiction.
	If Hunter was truly sorry, he'd be returning the millions of ill-gotten gains.
	But you know that ain't gonna happen.
	Not even a cent will go back because it's all a lie that he will hide behind.
	Okay, he's the victim here, folks.
	Hunter's the victim, right?
	He's just an innocent son, right?
	50-year-old innocent son.
	It's strange. I'm younger than him, but I wasn't the innocent son.
	And guess what? I did my stuff.
	I did my testimony for treason, a crime punishable by death, and I took it like a man.
	Hunter, he's not going to do that.
	We all know it. Will the FBI arrest and shackle Hunter Biden like they did to Peter Navarro?
	Are they going to get and give him the pre-dawn raid treatment with machine guns and armored personnel carriers like they did to Roger Stone?
	No, no, no, guys.
	They're not going to do that. The one rule for the Bidens and the one rule for the rest of us, policy will apply.
	The evidence of Biden's corruption has been out in the public for years.
	Biden himself said on camera that he got the prosecutor fired at Burisma.
	Remember, that's where Hunter was making millions for a no-show job that no one knew what he was doing in a language he didn't speak in a business he knew nothing about, conveniently.
	Just in case you needed the refresher, here it is.
	Walking out to the press conference said, no, I said, I'm not going to, we're not going to give you the billion dollars.
	They said, you have no authority.
	You're not the president. The president said, I said, call him.
	I said, I'm telling you, you're not getting a billion dollars.
	I said, you're not getting a billion?
	I'm going to be leaving here, I think it was, what, six hours?
	I looked, I said, I'm leaving in six hours.
	If the prosecutor's not fired, you're not getting the money.
	Oh, son of a bitch.
	You got fired. While the Bidens have gotten rich, you've gotten poorer.
	Mortgage payments on homes have increased 90% during the Biden presidency.
	90%. Biden is losing head-to-head against my father.
	Guys, instead of uniting around the eventual nominee on the Republican side, establishment forces are going all out donating to Nikki Haley.
	Guess what, guys? Nikki Haley isn't gonna win shit, okay?
	All she's doing is dividing the party.
	She's draining the resources that we're gonna need to take on the Democrat machine, okay?
	The gamesmanship, the lawfare, the cheating, the margin of fraud, okay?
	First, the establishment wanted Ron to sanctimonious.
	That failed miserably. Once they saw him, let's say, in long form, realized, ah, yeah, he's not the guy.
	The guy's so insecure, he's got to wear high heels.
	Probably not the guy we want leading our country.
	And then, after they realized he's a dud, they moved on to Haley.
	And speaking of being sanctimonious, the liberals out, they're out of control with the sanctimony.
	You've been watching what's going on at Harvard this week.
	Harvard, which claims magically to love free speech, even though they were ranked like one of the last universities in America as it related to free speech, just blocked comments on their announcement supporting their idiotic president.
	Think about this. They stand for free speech.
	They're giving a pass to someone who plagiarized Five of her 11 academic papers who oversaw Harvard's disastrous response to hate-filled and insane hate on campus that would have violated their codes of conduct.
	And now, the president of Harvard, who seems to be a DEI candidate and only given that position because she checked a couple boxes, they gave her a pass.
	No other person would have been given a pass for plagiarizing all of their stuff.
	No other person would have been given a pass for allowing what happened to happen on Harvard's campus.
	But the problem with the DEI house of cards is that if you actually face some accountability, the entire charade collapses.
	It falls apart.
	We're all seeing it.
	They're just finally saying the quiet part out loud.
	Everyone understands that if you were attacking any other group, whether it was trans or African Americans at Harvard, those people would have been out in two seconds.
	If Donald Trump Jr.
	was at Harvard, or perhaps Tucker Carlson, who will be up next, was at Harvard, and plagiarized major academic papers that enabled them to attain that position of president of Harvard, despite very few other academic credentials, It'd be a problem and they'd be out on their ass.
	But no, no, no. Bastion of Free Speech Harvard unanimously stands by Claudine Gay and conveniently turned off all the comments to the post because they too apparently really love free speech.
	Just kidding, folks. They're full of shit.
	We all know it. But at least the veil has finally fallen.
	And finally, folks, a major story broke just the other week and went completely unnoticed.
	The Democrats' star, January 6th, committee witness Cassidy Hutchinson, corrected several parts of her testimony.
	Guys, this is one that I did, I think it was about another 10 hours in front of, right?
	Trying to jail everyone and whatever it may be.
	But remember all her crazy, unfounded claims about my father?
	He tried to gain control of the beast.
	He choked out Secret Service.
	I was like, man, if 75-year-old Donald Trump at the time is choking out a federal agent and taking control of the beast to show support for our people, I'm like, I don't know, man.
	I don't think that makes me like him less.
	Maybe it makes me like him even more.
	But apparently, it's all totally made up.
	I think they tried to change, what, 19 pages?
	19 pages of testimony now magically has been changed.
	She submitted what is called an errata sheet, which is usually used for fixing typos, right?
	I said it was 1201.
	It was actually 1202, I'm sorry, but not a fundamental change.
	But hers includes significant changes to her account of everything that happened and key events on January 6th.
	It sounds like she should be brought back to testify again so she can be cross-examined and explain how you have to change that much.
	It's almost as if she was just a puppet doing whatever the Democrats said, was promised some sort of quid pro quo if she could help take down Trump.
	But like all other things, January 6th, they will do what they can to cover up the never-ending lies.
	Like they have with the videos and exculpatory evidence and denying basic due process because we live in the People's Republic of America.
	We no longer live in the America that we grew up in.
	We should all understand that and see it and make sure we actually do something about that in 2024 while there's still a chance to reverse the insanity we're witnessing.
	And we're expected to learn even more about how much Cassidy Hutchinson walked back.
	But again, it's just another example of the Democrats' January 6th narrative crumbling.
	This is why we need authentic America first fighters inside the Republican Party.
	No one who is going to carry water for the swamp.
	And Tucker will be here in just a few moments to talk about just that.
	Okay, but before we go there, I do want to take a couple seconds to thank our incredibly brave sponsors
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	And with that, guys, here we go to the one and only Tucker Carlson.
	All right, guys. Well, first off, I want to take the time to thank Tucker Carlson for joining us.
	I know a lot of things are going on on your end, Tucker, right now, including launching literally a new media company taking on a lot of the establishment that's out there with the Tucker Carlson Network.
	Now, you've done some... Big interviews lately.
	Kid Rock, Dana White, Alex Jones.
	But when are we going to see the interviews that we're all waiting for, like Brian Stelter, Zelinsky, or even perhaps creepy porn lawyer Michael Avenatti?
	I mean, that one may be the number one interview I want to see of all time based on episode one that we saw.
	But, you know, it's hard to say of all of them who's the biggest grifter, but maybe it's Zelinsky.
	What do you think? I would love to interview him, and I can't do it in Ukraine.
	I think I would be arrested there.
	I'm not really afraid.
	I mean, at this point, my kids are running.
	I'm not really afraid of much. I don't think I should go to Ukraine, though.
	So I'm not going to do that.
	But I would love to interview Zelensky.
	He's turned us down. Avenatti's in prison for many years.
	We did just visit Julian Assange in prison, so I've interviewed people in prison before, but I don't know if he would sign off on us visiting.
	We've got a bunch of interviews coming, but you're totally right.
	And Stelter, that's a tough call.
	I mean, first of all, I don't want to be in the same room as Stelter.
	There's something very poisonous about that guy and kind of feline and scary.
	Alex Jones was absolutely right about Brian Stelter.
	It's not just that he's wrong.
	It's that there's a lot of malice in Brian Stelter, a lot of repressed...
	Well, a lot of things were repressed in Brian Seltzer, but a lot of repressed rage and hatred.
	And he's a destroyer.
	I agree with that. I think we talked to him by remote.
	It feels like there's so much malice just in the media in general.
	I mean, you are one of the people that really, you created Rachel Maddow, right?
	You brought her on. You gave her a platform.
	You've worked with Joe Scarborough.
	You used to work for, you know, some pretty prominent figures in conservatism that have, you know, lost their minds.
	Yeah. You know, what's going on there?
	How'd that malice come about?
	You know, I don't know.
	I suspect it's personal.
	I mean, I really think your politics grow out of whatever is inside you.
	And in the case of Joe Scarborough specifically, I mean, I knew him really well, and I always admired his intelligence.
	He's genuinely smart. He's not stupid at all.
	Very clever guy. Very calculating guy.
	But I think the burden of things that Joe has done And I'm not just talking about the murder he's been accused of.
	I have my views on that.
	I don't know whether he actually committed it or not.
	He's been credibly accused of killing a girl, however.
	I don't know if it's that or some things in his personal life, but whatever it is, that is a hater.
	He's really transformed from a kind of thoughtful, clever, funny guy who had views To a guy who's just bent on destroying other people.
	And again, I think that grows out of the misery inside and the guilt that he feels over the things that he's done in his life, etc.
	And a much healthier way to deal with that, I mean, all of us have done things we feel guilty about, I certainly have, is to admit them and kind of let them fall away, let the guilt fall away and just move forward as a whole person.
	But someone like Scarborough just can't do it.
	And it's bad for the country when people like that have national platforms, I think.
	Do you think he's sort of doing the, like, become a Democrat spokesperson because there's actually a lot less accountability if you're doing the bidding of the left?
	I mean, it feels like if you're a conservative, you know, Tucker Carlson, if you were an academic, would not be getting the same treatment at Harvard as Claudine Gay is at Harvard for the same thing, for the same gross incompetence, for plagiarism, etc.
	I mean, is there a life jacket to doing the bidding of the radical left today?
	There's no doubt about it, but I think it's bigger than partisan.
	I mean, it's not just that Scarborough is a defender of the Democratic Party, which obviously he is, that whole channel is, but it's more than that.
	He's an advocate for destroying things, for destroying families, individuals.
	I mean, if you're arguing for castrating kids or for appointing a flagrant moron like Claudine Gay to the presidency of Harvard, you know, the most famous prestigious university in the world...
	What are you doing? Well, you're wrecking things.
	You're breaking things that you didn't build.
	You're advocating for destruction.
	If you're pushing some totally pointless foreign war, like the war in Ukraine, that Ukraine cannot win, then the only real effect is the total destruction of that country and an entire generation of men.
	And if you're quarterbacking that, even in the face of the dead certain knowledge, it won't work.
	But you're still calling for more Ukrainians to die.
	What are you doing?
	Well, of course, you're serving evil.
	You're serving the destruction of other people and of institutions that were worth having
	but are now gone.
	And that's kind of where Joe finds himself.
	So I think it's deeper than partisan.
	I think there's something spiritual going on here.
	What about Bill Kristol?
	I mean, you started off working for him, and he's taken that same approach.
	But I mean, this is someone that, at least at a time, would have been a noted conservative scholar.
	It feels like he's literally, you know, a full-blown, not even like, you know, Kennedy-type Democrat.
	He's a full-blown radical, you know, Marxist.
	He is. And what's interesting about Crystal, he's very much like Claudine Gay.
	Both are the beneficiaries of affirmative action, both occupy places they haven't earned and have reputations they didn't earn.
	And neither one is a scholar.
	Both are kind of midwits.
	I mean, Crystal's above average intelligence, certainly not a genius, but neither one of them has ever written a book.
	Bill Kristol is a scholar.
	He's a PhD from Harvard, but he's never written a single book.
	And he's not a good writer.
	I mean, he had a column for the New York Times, which they canceled because he couldn't write a 750-word column twice a week.
	So he's not that bright.
	He's kind of dumb. I mean, he's smarter than most people probably, but he's hardly a genius.
	He's hardly a scholar.
	His whole life is a pose.
	And he's really angry about it.
	I mean, if you take someone and put him in a position he hasn't earned, he got there
	because of his dad, of course, Irving Kristol.
	He was the son of a famous guy.
	And you put him in this position and you give him accolades he hasn't earned, he knows that.
	And so he feels bad about himself and he takes that rage out on other people.
	And so Kristol doesn't really say, I mean, I worked for him for five and a half years,
	so I know what he's like.
	And he's a hater.
	And he absolutely hates Christian conservatives, for sure, above all.
	And once you understand that, you can kind of see what this is really about.
	It's not about conservatism or helping America.
	It's about crushing and suppressing certain people because of their religious faith and their ethnicity.
	That's what he's really about.
	Okay, so as someone who perhaps sits in a similar situation, right?
	I have a father that's incredibly accomplished.
	He's done things in all sorts of walks of life.
	How would you view, what's your analysis of me as being different than that?
	Because you've seen that that can destroy certain people.
	So is my, when I go out there and fight for all these things, I'm curious to see what the Tucker analysis is on that one.
	You want an honest now?
	Yeah, seriously. I'll give it to you. So you were born into a family that was famous for business, okay, and had a company with your name on it.
	Be pretty easy to stay with that.
	And that's probably not a good thing, actually.
	I mean, if you're really into it and really great at it, do it.
	But you did something that is your salvation and the salvation of all of us, which is you followed your gifts and your actual enthusiasms.
	You're like, hmm, you know, the two things I love, I love politics and And I love the outdoors.
	I love hunting and fishing. And you decided to master those.
	And you had a natural aptitude for it.
	You left a more comfortable path, which was kind of guaranteed because literally your name's on the company.
	And you're like, I'm going to go into this thing I've never done before, but I just love it.
	Your dad runs for president. You get hauled out as a surrogate.
	You don't have a ton of experience in it.
	And you're like, wow, this just feels right.
	I'm really passionate. And that's why you're like a normal person who's not controlled by your insecurities.
	As distinct from someone like Claudine Gay, who's like, oh shit, I'm the president of Harvard.
	I'm not very smart.
	And she knows she's an imposter.
	Same with Bill Kristol. You're like, no, I love this.
	It's like real. No, it's interesting.
	People can feel it on you. You know, people, you know, like, well, You know, it's so brutal.
	All the investigations. I was like, no, no, no.
	I got a chance to sort of remake myself in my late 30s.
	Not everyone gets that chance.
	So it is unique.
	And it was sort of like as brutal as it's been, as costly as it's been.
	You know, it was definitely easier being the son of a beloved billionaire in New York City, right?
	You go to all the cool people parties.
	That was easy. This is harder, but it's much more meaningful.
	But you genuinely like it, so that's the key.
	If you take a man and you force him down a path he's not suited for, and that he doesn't really love, you'll destroy that man.
	You know, you've got to do things, and we're talking off air, in your personal life, like you're deeply committed to your non-professional interests, like you really love them.
	And that's another sign of balance and health, is someone who's not only about his job, who cares about other things, like his family, or In your case, hunting and fishing.
	I share those loves, so I know it.
	But it could be anything.
	It could be you're a secret watercolorist or you love to sing opera or whatever.
	As long as it's real, as long as it's your actual passion and ability, then you'll make it.
	You'll survive. You won't be distorted.
	But Bill Kristol, you know, he's posing as a writer.
	He literally can't write.
	Like, imagine the hell of that.
	That's got to be pretty brutal.
	I mean, I'm not a writer, but I got a couple of bestsellers, so I guess I'm doing better than Bill Kristol.
	Yeah. So you've transcended, you know, it's not just politics anymore.
	You're dealing with businessmen.
	You're dealing with pop culture.
	You've figured out how to meld all of those things together.
	So, you know, who's the smartest of all the people that you've sat down with?
	Who's that smartest business person, politician, whatever it may be that you've interacted with?
	And then conversely, who's the dumbest that, you know, people may not think would be dumb?
	That's such a great question.
	I've been thinking a lot about this. So I grew up like you in an affluent zip code and lived in one my whole life until a few years ago, lived in D.C. for 35 years.
	And there's this massive premium on IQ. You're smart.
	That's like the highest compliment you can pay a person.
	He's smart. And I really have come to see the limitations in that.
	I think IQ matters and it's real and it's mostly hereditary.
	That's all true. However, that's not really the measure of a man both morally or in the marketplace even.
	The most successful businessmen I know are not the ones who had the highest scores in the SAT. They're the wisest.
	Wisdom is the goal, not intelligence, wisdom.
	There are an infinite number of possibilities in front of you, which do you choose?
	That can't be calculated by a McKinsey formula.
	You can't call BSG to figure that out for you.
	You need to know it on a gut level and you need to obey what you know.
	You need to follow your own instincts.
	And so the really good one, I mean, Dana White comes to mind as one of them.
	Is Dana White, did he get a higher score in the SAT than, you know, I don't know, pick your corporate chieftain?
	Probably not. But when, as Mike Tyson famously said, everybody got a plan until you get hit in the face.
	And when Dana White got hit in the face during COVID, he zagged when everyone else zigged.
	He went in the opposite direction.
	But you can't do that. And he's like, no, no, no, I have to do this.
	And he did it. And it made his sport predominant.
	It's when the crisis hits, that's when you know who somebody is.
	All the rest of it is just bullshit.
	All the rest of it is just the product of some meeting where smart people got together to play in the future.
	And none of it means a thing.
	It's only when there's a true crisis, like someone leaks your Access Hollywood video or COVID hits or whatever.
	How do you behave then?
	And so those are the guys I respect a lot.
	Who are the dumbest? Oh, I mean, the guys who run AB, I would say, have to be...
	I mean, basically, the people who run General Motors, are you joking?
	It's like, oh, we're not going to sell you trucks anymore that run on gasoline or diesel?
	Are you kidding? That's your whole business.
	Like, anyone who gets talked into something insane, and I will say, my father used to say this when we were kids, he would say all the really bad ideas come from the geniuses.
	Because they're so counterintuitive, they're so against nature, they're so against the natural order and what's obvious, that you really need to be an intellectual to fall for them.
	And so like, hey, I have an idea.
	Let's get rid of money and reorganize the society on an agrarian basis and murder everyone who wears eyeglasses.
	That was the Khmer Rouge program.
	But it wasn't conceived by peasants.
	It was conceived by schoolteachers and intellectuals.
	The smartest people in Cambodia came up with the killing fields.
	Of course, the peasants never would have come up with something like that.
	They'd be like, well, some people need eyeglasses, you know?
	Like, they never could have convinced themselves of something that dumb.
	Well, no, I mean, that's manifesting itself so much right now, where you see, like, sort of the illusion of academia and Harvard.
	You realize, like, well, no, everything's a DEI program.
	You know, you can't get in there. The feeling I had for my, you know, Penn and Wharton diploma...
	It doesn't mean anything anymore.
	It's something 10 years ago I would have been proud of.
	Today you realize, we even had a saying back then, B is for billionaire, because you're right.
	The guys that figured out a system did a lot better than the guys that were so brilliant.
	They got A's in everything, but they were always trapped within that.
	You talk about this sort of general thing where the fake white-collar economy, right?
	COVID lockdowns sort of exposed it more than ever.
	And, you know, when your whole job is reduced down to, you know, sitting in your bed in your boxer shorts, you know, unlike a couple people maybe pleasuring themselves on conference calls, former colleagues of yours and, you know, competitors in the media space...
	What's going on with that?
	It's sort of a reality check when we realize what's happening in our lives in corporate America.
	We have fake email jobs that don't really matter.
	You've talked about this a lot, but I think it has a drastic effect on losing the sense of meaning and purpose that is such a big part of people's day-to-day life.
	How do you see what's going on there right now?
	Well, I think it's all fruit from the same tree.
	It's all the product of generational affluence.
	And you see this in families, most obviously.
	There's the innovator, the hard worker, the bootstrap guy who creates the business, makes the family fortune, and then the family becomes successively less.
	Impressive with every generation.
	And I have to say, since you invited it, you asked me to analyze you and your family.
	Looking back, the best thing that ever happened to your family probably was the suffering that you've gone through, the loss of money that you guys have gone through in the last five years.
	That gives you purpose and gives you meaning and sharpens you and makes you live a purposeful life because you have no choice.
	If that doesn't happen, if you just live off trust disbursements every month, and I've seen this, frankly, in my own family, but I've seen it in many other families, You become contemptible and you become weak and silly and ridiculous and you don't even know it.
	And in the end, you become self-destructive.
	And that is the story of rich families.
	The fourth generation is always killing themselves.
	You know what I mean? With alcoholism or whatever, literally shooting themselves.
	So that's true in countries as well.
	And so if you have, you know, 80 years of uninterrupted economic growth and prosperity, which is the story of America after 1945, Then, of course, you're going to get to a place where the entire ruling class is so decadent and silly and can't see themselves clearly enough to know that, that it's going to come tumbling down.
	I mean, it's that strong men make good times aphorism is actually real.
	And I'm just sorry that my children have to live in the middle of it.
	I kind of like the world I grew up in.
	Well, you broke out of it.
	I mean, you and I are that way as well, right?
	You grew up in a—you had—your father was like an ambassador and high up in the government and did these things.
	You grew up in a D.C. sort of environment around that, just like I grew up—you know, I'm supposed to go to Penn and, you know, graduate from Wharton and be a liberal in New York City, go to the rich people parties, and yet— I mean, I guess we sort of both broke out of that.
	We had personas that were very different than that in our real lives.
	You know, what made you sort of go counterculture to sort of, you know, your predetermined destiny that, you know, that should have happened and sort of engulfs 95% of probably the kids that we grew up with?
	Well, I mean, two things.
	One was just temperamental, like I'm just too arrogant or something.
	I just didn't want to have to repeat the slogans.
	I want to say what I think is true.
	I don't have to say everything I think is true.
	I don't have the need to, like, spill all my thoughts, some of which are stupid and crazy, probably.
	But I didn't want to have to repeat someone else's bumper sticker.
	And, like, over time, I just wouldn't.
	I'm not doing that. Okay, so that was the first thing.
	And the second thing, which is even more transformative, is I realized that the world that these people were aspiring to or occupying wasn't that great, actually.
	Highly overrated. It's so overrated.
	How much room service can you eat?
	How many weeks can you spend in St.
	Bart's? Is flying private really that awesome?
	It's fine. It's not that great, actually.
	And what I really loved...
	Speaking for myself, was nature.
	I mean this from my heart.
	I would be a lot happier in a cabin, which I have, with no electricity or running water, than I would be at the Four Seasons fill-in-the-blank exotic destination.
	I just really felt that way.
	I appreciated the beauty of the natural world far more than I appreciated the trappings of wealth.
	And so you realize the thing that everybody wants in the end You know, it's better than grinding poverty.
	It's better than being in debt, I think, of course.
	But it's not that great, and it's not salvation.
	And for me, what really was salvation, this sounds cheesy, but I really mean it, was to be like fishing with my kids on a stream with no one else around.
	Like, that was the highest level for me.
	And remains, or bird hunting with my dogs, who I really, really love, and I see my dogs working in this weird ballet in the quail field, and I'm like, I don't think I've ever been happier.
	So once you decide that that's what you want, Then none of this other shit means anything at all.
	It's like, what are you going to give me to obey?
	I don't want what you have, actually.
	And I mean it. That resonates so much with me, because that was like, you know, in 15, they're like, you know, they stuck me sort of out in the political field.
	You know, I'm an IOI. I don't even know what a caucus is.
	And they're like, well, how are you doing well with regular people?
	It's like... Well, you know, contrary to popular belief, I'm not on, like, the rubber chicken dinner circuit in New York.
	Like, on Friday afternoon, I'm on my farm in Pennsylvania.
	Like, my friends were just regular blue-collar guys.
	So it wasn't like, I'm telling them what they want to hear.
	These are actually my friends.
	And that's what was so disappointing about...
	Perhaps the disappointing part of the political process was figuring out, like, the people chosen to represent these people that live in their neighborhoods, whether it's Congress or otherwise...
	They were incapable of talking to their neighbors and like the son of a billionaire from New York somehow had it figured out simply because he actually spent time there.
	And that created a whole new level of cynicism that really created a rage which probably makes me fight the way I do as well.
	Well, I think you have a huge advantage, and I feel this way to some extent.
	If you're not insecure about your social status, if you're not trying to get super rich or get the accolades, if you've already kind of seen that a little bit and decided it's not that great, then they don't have a leash on you, actually, at that point.
	Again, I want to be clear. I don't want to be in debt again.
	I have been. I don't want that.
	I don't want to be poor, actually, but I'm not that afraid of it.
	And I know that I don't want whatever they have to give as a prize for obedience.
	I'm just not interested.
	And that's a huge advantage.
	And I think, honestly, your father has that as well.
	I mean, the true reformers are not coming from the bottom up.
	They're coming from the top down because they know how the system works.
	They're not that impressed by it.
	They know who's fake and who's not.
	And they know in the end the prize isn't worth having.
	Yeah. So, you know, as you talk about this, I mean, it sort of feels like we see a lot of that in news coverage, right?
	How different do you think our news would be?
	And I think this is something you're trying to do.
	It certainly is something, you know, I'm trying to do, just having these conversations, getting it out there in a different way.
	If all of the major networks weren't simply, you know, clustered in New York and D.C. I mean, we talk about those bubbles, but, you know, what would it be like if those guys were actually sort of spread out throughout the country?
	I think it might make a difference, but the main thing that would make a difference is the people in the business, because they determine what the institution is like.
	I mean, an institution is just a bunch of people with a common purpose.
	And in the news business, the two qualities that I look for, well, really three.
	First is honesty. You have to be honest, period, okay, in your personal life as well as your professional life.
	Second, you have to be curious.
	You really have to wonder, like, well, wait a second, what was that?
	And the beauty of being in nature is that it inspires your curiosity.
	Like, how do I catch the trout?
	How do I find the quail? Whatever.
	Like, you're trained to be interested in the things around you, okay?
	Journalists have to have that quality.
	And the third quality is you cannot be impressed.
	By power or rank or merit badge.
	If you're talking to someone who's got authority over you and he's got some title, whether it's general or ambassador or president or whatever, if you instinctively genuflect before that, if you bow before him just by your nature, this is not the business for you.
	You have to remember, I'm a free man, I'm a citizen, I'm a moral equal to the person I'm interviewing.
	I'm not hostile necessarily, but I'm approaching him as an equal, as a peer.
	You may have been elected, you may run the Pacific Fleet or whatever, but I'm an American too.
	And I respectfully demand an answer on behalf of my fellow Americans.
	You have to have that attitude. And if inside you're a bitch, if you're a beta, if you're subordinate in your heart, And you're like, well, I can't ask the general that question.
	You know, he's got an aircraft carrier, or he's got a division, and I don't.
	Yeah, then...
	You're not right for this job at all.
	Then go be his aide.
	Go be his coffee bearer.
	But you can't be a journalist.
	And those three qualities are totally absent in our media.
	It's not that they're not smart enough.
	They all went to Cornell.
	I think that's technically an Ivy League school or was anyway at one point.
	But no, they're smart enough, but they don't have the temperamental qualities.
	They're all socially anxious and insecure.
	They want to be accepted by the people they interview.
	They looked at 2016 as an anomaly.
	They weren't willing to do a post-mortem of maybe there's something wrong with the way we're looking at things, or maybe we're not looking at things at all.
	And I think that goes across the board.
	I mean, you recently said, you know, America became a fundamentally different country the moment that Mar-a-Lago got raided.
	You know, both... In the media, there was silence in law enforcement.
	Everyone, oh, this is totally normal.
	Can you expand on that?
	Because I do think you're right. That was a sort of a turning point in discourse.
	But it was also a sort of a flipping of a switch, I think, for a lot of Americans who are finally realizing that everything that they've been told about their country, everything that they've been told they must believe or they're not a patriot, so much of that is based on a total lie at this point.
	I completely agree.
	I mean, that was the moment that changed my view of everything.
	And I happened to be out of the country when that happened with my kids.
	I used to get a week in the summer and a week at Christmas.
	I was in Mongolia.
	I'm not going to tell you where I was, but I was with my kids in a totally isolated place.
	And My son works in politics, so I've been talking.
	He's very smart. So I've been talking to my son about this stuff and like, what's going to happen?
	Is Trump really going to run?
	Is that real? I'm asking him.
	And I don't know if...
	I mean, I don't know. The next day, he comes to me and he's reading on his phone.
	He's like, they just did this at Mar-a-Lago.
	And I said...
	This is the thing that will actually destroy the country.
	You want to end democracy? All this pearl clutching about democracy?
	Democracy! If you want to end democracy, this is what you do.
	And of course, because we're from Washington, and my dad worked in government, I've been around it my whole life, I understand the classification system, and I know what a scam it is.
	Over a billion classified documents.
	So it's not a democracy by definition.
	If you can't see what your government is doing, you're not really in charge of your government, are you?
	No, of course not. And so the fact that they got them on a classification charge was so mind-boggling to me because I know how it works very, very well.
	I was just stunned.
	And my first thought was, and I happen to like Trump, as you know, and I agree with him on 90% of his views on things, so I'm aligned already ideologically.
	But even if I weren't, I mean, if he was saying things that I really didn't like, I'd still...
	In fact, even if I hated him, which I don't, but I would still be like, no, you can't have that.
	My kids live here. My grandkids are going to live here.
	We want to live here anyway.
	We have nowhere else to go. You can't wreck our system.
	You didn't create it. My family's been here hundreds of years, so I kind of feel like, sorry to say it, but a little bit of ownership of it.
	No, this is our country. Stop that.
	You can't do that. And we will end the country if we don't have free and fair elections and a fair justice system.
	Those are the two prerequisites.
	Above all else, that's why people come here.
	It's not for our financial system and all the Wall Street jerk-offs to compliment themselves.
	People come here for a banking system.
	No, they don't. There are lots of banking systems.
	They come here because of the rule of law and the fact that there's a peaceful transition of power.
	And the only reason it's peaceful is because the population, by and large, thinks it's fair.
	So it is actually a system that the whole population buys into.
	That's why it's enduring. That's why we don't have revolutions.
	And the second you end that, we will have a revolution.
	Maybe not now, but at some point.
	If you take people's power away entirely, no economic power, no political power, they will revolt.
	So you can either put them all in concentration camps or you can prepare to be overthrown.
	That really is the story of history.
	But they seem to be trying to do that right now, right?
	If you look at the January 6th treatment relative to the Summer of Love riot treatment.
	Yes. Democrats are always out there shouting about protecting democracy and norms, but they're out there also trying to imprison their political opponents.
	They're trying to censor everyone that they disagree with.
	What is it with the left and projection?
	Well, I mean, that's...
	I've thought an awful lot about this, and I'm slow to pick up on anything.
	I mean, it takes me forever to know anything.
	Like, the obvious often eludes me.
	One of my favorite employees is gay.
	And I love him, and we've worked at it for all these years.
	I had no idea he was gay for, like, three months.
	And I said to someone else, is he gay?
	Yeah, he's married. Because who cares?
	Yeah. Only the left actually cares, right?
	They pretend that you're not supposed to care, but...
	I miss all of it. If you don't care, that's a problem.
	The stuff that's so obvious.
	Exactly. But the point is, this started to happen and I didn't get it at first.
	I was like, wait, what they're saying is not simply false.
	It is the exact opposite.
	It's the mirror image.
	It's the inverse of the truth.
	And not only that, they're accusing me of doing exactly what they are doing.
	And what is that?
	And I've decided after many years of watching this that it's evil.
	That's not dishonesty in the way that normal people lie.
	That's like a true deception.
	Like you were serving not just the individual lie, but the concept and the force of evil when you do that.
	I mean, that's like really super dark.
	And that has awakened in me the sense that something else bigger than politics is going on here.
	And of course, I'm the last person to really know what it is.
	I've been an Episcopalian my whole life, but I am totally convinced That something bigger than politics is afoot, not just in this country, but across the West.
	And it makes me feel like I'm not sitting this out, and I am not, to the extent I have any control over anything, very limited, but for my part, I'm not going to stop yelping about this prosecution of the presidential frontrunner, because if that is allowed to happen, we're done. We're done.
	No more elections after that.
	They're not even pretending anymore.
	I know that you don't drink and you've been sober for quite some time right now.
	What has sobriety taught you?
	Do you view the world differently from that perspective?
	Should more people try that out?
	What are your thoughts on that? It feels like a big one.
	It's something I've dealt with myself.
	I think it's the key.
	And I didn't understand it again, just to say for the third time, it takes me a long
	time to understand things.
	So I got sober because I had no choice because I was drinking in the morning and just I would
	have destroyed my life.
	So I quit 21 years ago.
	And the immediate, I know you know this feeling, is waking up on Sunday feeling okay and not
	hung over and not worried about what you did and all that stuff.
	That's like an amazing experience.
	But it took me a long time to understand that's not the real benefit.
	The real benefit of being sober all the time is that it makes you strong.
	You're much less afraid.
	The second you get loaded, you're afraid.
	There's something about being impaired that makes you fearful and protective.
	But when you live for a while totally exposed to the world with no kind of shield of drugs
	or alcohol to protect you, you become a lot stronger inside, a lot stronger, a lot harder
	to rattle, a lot harder to intimidate.
	You become a lot tougher as a person in a really good way.
	Not in a mean way, but in a real way.
	Like, yeah, I'm not afraid of you anymore.
	And I do think that's the key.
	I think it's the reason that the U.S. government, as a matter of policy, pushes people to be loaded.
	Yeah, what do you think about weed with that?
	You can't walk around a major city in New York without just literally smelling weed all over the place.
	Is it the same?
	They hate cigarettes, but they love weed.
	By the way, just to be clear, I don't think we should haul people off to prison for firing up a bomb in their living room.
	I don't. Of course not.
	However, the government is affirmatively pushing weed on the population.
	Now, why are they doing that? To weaken them, obviously.
	Yeah. It doesn't make you stronger.
	It makes you weaker. Of course.
	That's why they closed the gyms during COVID, but kept the weed dispensaries open.
	Physical fitness is white supremacy, Tucker.
	I mean, if you're in shape, if you can run a six-minute mile, if you can do a couple pull-ups and you actually strive to do that, that's not just, you know, perseverance or basic, you know, common health benefit.
	That's actually white supremacy these days.
	And they sold that to us hard.
	I mean, Starbucks will remain open.
	Walmart and junk food places will remain open.
	But we're going to close your gym.
	It's totally true. And feed you garbage, poison food, which is also true.
	I mean, I'm not digging into my boring life, but that's been one of the things that's taken me the longest to understand since I have such bad eating habits and such low taste in food.
	Even though I grew up in a rich world, I love white trash food.
	And it's actually poison, and it makes you weak.
	Not just fat. It obviously makes you fat, which is bad, I guess.
	I don't even care about fat, however.
	What I care about is...
	You know, a person's spiritual condition.
	Are you strong? And that stuff makes you weak.
	And so does sitting around and so does smoking weed.
	And then the whole just world of pharmacology that they're pushing on people, the SSRIs, the benzodiazepines.
	All of that weakens you, and they're weakening you for a reason, which is to make you more obedient and easier to control.
	They don't want free citizens who think for themselves.
	That's the thing they don't want.
	And anyone who's like that, they immediately call a white supremacist.
	By the way, other than Trump, who remains very strong...
	Despite eating a diet of McDonald's and KFC. He's the one guy that can pull off, like, you know, he literally knows every item on the menu.
	People are like, no, that's not real.
	I'm like, dude, you're like, I've literally driven through the drive-thru in the presidential motorcade of a McDonald's.
	I promise you, he knows everything there is to know about it.
	I love that.
	I was coming back from hunting, you know, super early in the morning, coming back at like 11 and, you know, I've had too much coffee.
	My stomach's growling. This was a couple of years ago.
	I don't eat McDonald's at all.
	And I was like, oh, McDonald's, you know, I'll get a McDonald's.
	And I had the breakfast thing, which was like delicious.
	It was like a head injury for the rest of the day.
	It was unbelievable. It kicked your butt.
	Sausage and cheese biscuit is incredible, but like it'll...
	That's what I had. You pay for it forever.
	It's insane. And the fact that he can just like wolf down a quarter pounder and, you know, a Milky Way and keep talking, you know, it's like he's obviously got a very unusual constitution.
	But for most of us, that stuff makes you weaker and easier to control.
	And like, I don't last thing I'll say is I don't understand why we don't see that and why we don't understand the implications.
	If you treated your children like the U.S. government treats its citizens, your kids should be in rehab.
	They'd be moving towards suicide.
	We are intentionally mistreating and weakening the population, making them more dependent, more self-loathing, less physically healthy.
	It's absolutely crazy.
	Again, if you did that to your kids, they would be destroyed, and yet they're doing it to us.
	And so what does that tell you? They hate us.
	That's what it tells you. There's no other possible interpretation.
	You're right. There's no other plausible even answer at this point.
	It's so flagrant. It's so obvious.
	But I think maybe with all things Trump derangement syndrome, I do think that people are figuring that out.
	I mean, that's a big meme. They're talking about the physical fitness.
	We joke about these things, but people are starting to get it.
	There's a big push. And the attacks from the government and from the left radicalizing someone who actually just wants to eat healthy and calling them all sorts of names, I think it's backfiring because it's so ludicrous There's no justification for it.
	I think people are waking up to it, albeit slowly.
	But yeah, I agree with that.
	But I think we haven't spent enough time thinking about motive here.
	I mean, one of my kids, for example, I've never lifted a weight in my life.
	I grew up in a world, you know, where everyone smokes cigarettes, including us at the breakfast table in, you know, eighth grade.
	So like, that's a whole different way of thinking to me.
	But one of my children, you know, decided to get into, well, all my kids are into physical fitness, but one of them really kind of got into it.
	And I was like, I have no idea what that is.
	I don't have a weight set.
	I don't know anything about that stuff. But I instantly liked it because I recognized, you know, first of all, I love this child more than my own life, and this is a good thing, and so I'm really happy for him.
	The government has the opposite reaction, and so does the media.
	They're angry if you try to become a better, stronger, more independent, happier person.
	That tells you what.
	They hate you and want to kill you.
	I don't think I'm overstating even a little bit.
	Think about that. The people with all the power want you to die?
	I mean, whoa!
	We're in a brand new world.
	I mean, we need to think about the implications of this for a minute.
	Yeah, I've been saying lately to basically everyone, like, whatever disdain you have for the government, and after what they tried to do to me and continue to try to do to my family, I have a lot.
	It's not enough.
	There's no amount at this point that we...
	And so hopefully we change that.
	But, you know, Tucker, if you could ask God one question before you die, what would it be?
	Oh, I ask a lot of questions of God every day.
	It's good. I think we could all use a little bit more of that too, which is another reason they're trying to get rid of that.
	Oh, every day.
	And again, I come from a completely secular background, but I mean, it's just like you have no choice but to realize that it's real.
	If you think the only things that are real are the things you can see, you're an idiot.
	That stuff is as real as the coffee mug on my desk.
	It's entirely real. But what question would I ask if I had one...
	You know, I don't know that I would ask a question.
	I mean, I'm completely convinced that when we die, you know, all these mysteries will be known to us.
	So I'm certain of that.
	For some reason, I know that that's true.
	And there's so much, you know, I'm not sure I want to know any more than I know, if I'm being totally honest with you.
	I'm always struck by...
	I'm reading the Bible and I'm not doing any Bible study.
	I don't trust anyone to interpret it for me.
	I just want to read it and see what it says. And I was really struck by the Adam and Eve story.
	So God punishes...
	He tells Adam and Eve, there's only one thing you can't do.
	You can't eat from this tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
	They do. Famously, they're punished.
	But it's like, wait. God is punishing them for knowing too much.
	I never thought of that. It's like the mirror image of what we tell ourselves.
	That ignorance is the real crime.
	You know? Ignorance is the crime.
	No, actually, in the Hebrew Bible, knowledge was the crime.
	Interesting. They got ticked out of the garden for knowing too much.
	And I do feel the UFO thing has kind of convinced me of this.
	I learned a lot about that.
	Too much. So much that I actually don't want to talk about it.
	And I think it's real. I mean, the things that I learned are real.
	And I've spent my whole life bringing information to people.
	And I think that's virtuous. And I'll continue to do it.
	But there is a point at which you're like, well, what do I do with that?
	You know, it's not just that UFOs are real.
	real, obviously they're real, but there's a lot more to it.
	And it's like, what do I do with that?
	I don't know.
	And I kind of wish I didn't know.
	I'm just being honest with you.
	Probably too honest.
	Well, why is that taken so, you know, obviously it's, I mean, you just, I mean,
	just play, play statistics out over the, you know, the course of the size of the
	universe.
	Of course, there's gotta be something out there, right?
	And, and yet why does it seem like now all of a sudden, uh, is that just another
	shiny object, uh, from the government to distract people from what's really going
	from all of the things they're trying to do and or take from us.
	What's your perspective on how that all of a sudden magically is now actually getting credence?
	There's sort of tacit acknowledgement even from the government itself.
	Is there more to it than that?
	That was my first suspicion.
	And by the way, I think most things are distractions, of course.
	I mean, I think the amount of emotional energy Americans spend on conflicts in countries they can't find on maps, and you're seeing that a lot now, that is mostly really a PSYOP designed to We're being invaded, but no one seems to even acknowledge it.
	So there's that. And yes, and I think UFOs have been used a bunch of different times over the past 80 years as a distraction or whatever.
	But right now, I happen to know for a fact that there's a lot of information.
	Everyone knows that the U.S. government has these objects and has the, quote, biologics, whatever these beings were that were flying them, and has them, and they're in the warehouse of a defense contractor, and that's known, and 10 whistleblowers have attested to that.
	People can deal with it.
	People don't even seem to be thinking about it.
	It's like, yeah, whatever, okay, that's real. That's not the story, actually.
	And no, they're not from another galaxy.
	They're from here. And what is that?
	And yes, the U.S. government's been in contact with them for a long time, and there's a lot of other stuff there that they really are trying to suppress, I happen to know, in meaningful ways.
	And what is that?
	And the truth is, I'm not exactly sure What this is, but some of the things that I believe are true, and based on actual evidence, are, you know, to the point where you're like, I'm not really sure what's real anymore.
	And so maybe it's not fruitful to focus on that stuff.
	I mean that. Like, okay, so we know, and I speak for myself, I believe certain things are true, okay?
	Because I've been... I've looked into it fairly aggressively.
	And at the end of that search, I'm like, okay, well, that affects my sleep.
	Nothing affects my sleep, by the way.
	That affected my sleep.
	What do I do with this? I'm in a cul-de-sac.
	I don't really know. So am I happy that I know this stuff?
	Not really. So I don't, you know, whatever.
	I'm not sure what I'm trying to say, but that's where I am on it.
	So, you know, talk about what you're trying to do right now with the media company.
	How did your perspective sort of change?
	I mean, we're talking about speaking truth and talking about facts.
	It seems like you started actually speaking truth to power, something everyone keeps talking about.
	But, you know, then whatever went on with Fox News happened.
	Now you're trying to do something different.
	I mean, I think Americans are watching the cable news format as being fundamentally broken, right?
	There's two different sides, but really it's all about power.
	There's one side, it's the uni party that you so often sort of refer to.
	What are you trying to do that's different?
	Is it about long form?
	I mean, a conversation like this, and I've been on your show back on the Fox days numerous times, and how many sound bites can I get out in the three minutes that I have to get it out there?
	How broken is that system?
	And what are you trying to do differently to actually have that intelligent conversation where you can get beyond that, again, the soundbite that's repeated every hour on the hour, 24 hours a day, regardless of sort of which channel you're watching.
	And, you know, if someone watches seven minutes of news these days, I feel like they got it all covered because no one else is saying anything different.
	First of all, let me just say you are a natural long-form guy, and so I bet you're enjoying the hell out of this because it obviously comes naturally to you.
	It's way more fun than doing those stupid TV hits.
	I've been on both sides of that for my whole life, and it's totally fruitless.
	I don't think it moves the ball at all, and it doesn't make you feel good.
	It's like prostitution. Maybe you get short-term pay, but it doesn't make you feel good about it.
	Please tell me your corporately sponsored talking points and then we'll go to the next person who's going to do exactly the same thing for an hour and then we all accomplish nothing and move on.
	That's exactly right.
	It's just it's an electric windmill.
	It's a treadmill. It doesn't help anybody.
	But I, you know, look, clearly things are changing.
	And it's just partly because of technology, partly because I think most media organizations have so discredited themselves that their core product has no value anymore because no one believes it.
	OK, so it's time for a new thing.
	I think forms like this are hugely important.
	The podcast world defines what people think.
	When I was a kid, it was magazines.
	People read small magazines to know what the cutting edge of thinking about something was.
	That's all gone, of course.
	It's been replaced by podcasts, which is so cool to see and a much more honest way of communicating.
	But there's also this hole where, like, a news organization should be.
	So, like, there are so many things going on right now simultaneously.
	Who's keeping track of all this stuff?
	And you really need to have employees send them out to bring people, like, news about how their world is changing.
	It's changing so fast, it's like, it bewilders me, and I do this for a living.
	So that's what we're building.
	We're building an alternative to existing news organizations.
	We're using X a lot to promote it and as a forum because it's an amazing forum.
	Our site is tuckercarlson.com and there's where we have the meat of it.
	It's a subscription service for a We could just do ad-based and make enough money.
	We don't trust advertisers, no offense.
	Love advertisers, but I've been through this for decades.
	I know what it looks like. You're at their mercy.
	And I don't want that.
	So it has to be a subscription service, hopefully not very expensive, certainly less expensive than a cable subscription, but it can't be influenced.
	It's free. There are no gatekeepers.
	It's honest. It can remain honest.
	And you can't knock it down.
	You know, Media Matters or Sleeping Giants or Southern Poverty Law Center, all these Soros censorship organizations can't touch a service that has no advertisers.
	So that's what we're building.
	And that's all coming out right now, right?
	There's the lawsuit that X has, you know, there's the lawsuit that Rumble has, and it's like, you know, someone's clicking on a link so that they can find a, you know, an off-color video on a free speech platform, and then they keep clicking the link so the ad finally shows up, and then they're like, oh, screenshot!
	This company is advertising on a racist thing.
	It's like, oh my god, it's so crazy.
	It's been so manipulated.
	It's so just, you know...
	Algorithmic, but, you know, also predictable, watching everything from the left, but it's truly scary.
	So I love that you sort of get to that point where you are then beyond reproach.
	Well, I love that. I mean, you need, especially over the next 12 months, you need to protect yourself.
	I mean, it's the equivalent of, like, I'm sure every single person watching has had a moment in the last year where he's like, you know, I probably should buy some canned food for my basement.
	I mean, like, all of us can feel that turmoil is ahead, and I hope it's not as bad as I feel like it's going to be.
	I really pray that. However, everybody feels this need to kind of, like, make sure you got everything in a pile because it could get...
	You know, it could get real.
	And that's how I feel about news.
	It could get real. And so this is a way to protect the news source.
	Like, no matter what happens, I want to be able to tell people what I think is happening and bring them video of it happening and basically fill the hole, the smoking crater where NBC News and CBS and ABC, the news giants of my youth, used to be.
	Because they're gone. And they've long been gone, actually.
	It's all fake. So as a last question, because I know you had a hard out, you know, in his book, You're the Messenger, Roger Ailes, right, back from the Fox days, wrote that if you don't communicate effectively, you won't live as fully as you should, nor will you achieve any personal goals.
	What makes you the effective communicator that you are, right?
	You came in, you dominated cable news, you became number one there, you're able to bring that over, you had and have had, maybe even with my father, maybe the most viewed sort of interview in history.
	You know, what makes you and gave you that ability to effectively communicate?
	Well, I mean, that's just, you know, I mean, facility with words was like kind of the only gift that I had.
	I mean, I was left handed, right eye dominant, which totally, you know, it screws you up.
	It's very unnatural. It's even worse when you're shooting well, by the way.
	Yeah, it's so trust me.
	And I I've hunted so much in my life that I can still kill the bird, but it's with a massive disability.
	I'm super dyslexic.
	I had all these things that limited me in what I could do really for a living.
	And the only thing I was sort of natural with was reading and writing because I love to read and I love to write and it just came naturally to me.
	And so I went into that business, but there are a lot of articulate people in television.
	I mean, that's like a prerequisite.
	That's like, you're not going to be in a Miss America pageant unless you're hot.
	Like that's just kind of the baseline.
	No, that's wrong, Tucker.
	That's wrong now.
	That used to be correct until about 2022.
	Now, if you're like the fat dude that goes trans, you'll win Ms.
	Universe. It's sort of like if you want to be an admiral today, just check the trans box.
	If you check a couple POC boxes, all of a sudden, you too can be an admiral.
	We'll give you a submarine. You don't have to know anything about submarines.
	Who cares? You don't have to know how to dive.
	Just congratulations. You're so right.
	You're so right. I'm just caught in the past.
	I almost said, you have to be smart to be president of Harvard.
	But anyway, that was...
	But I do think what helped me was just the mental change.
	I just decided I didn't want to lie, knowingly or unknowingly.
	Like, the amount of lies that I have repeated without knowing it is just vast and shameful, and I didn't want that to happen to me anymore.
	And, you know, it still happens to me sometimes.
	Like, you don't know you're being used, but you are.
	But now I'm, like, so paranoid about that and so focused on that.
	Just tell... We're good to go.
	Well, that makes you so different than all the journalists out there, right?
	I mean, it feels like literally all of the, you know, the journalists who, you know, democracy dies in darkness, Tucker, you know, they're out there doing the bidding of the Pentagon.
	It's like, wait a minute, like, is that true?
	Or did they give you a Pentagon briefing that's designed for a very specific purpose, right?
	Well, in the Pentagon, I'm so glad you, without getting into names, but I would say the most destructive reporters in the entire American press corps, certainly in Washington, are not the ones who are covering for Joe Biden.
	You can't cover for a senile man.
	Everyone knows the truth, it's obvious.
	They're the ones who are covering for CIA and DOD.
	And I'm thinking of one in particular, who I know personally, who's really like an agent of evil.
	It was lying on behalf of these vast secretive bureaucracies that are hurting our country every single day
	and knowingly doing that.
	And I just feel like there's an awful lot of that.
	The number of national security reporters who are honest is like, I don't know any.
	Maybe on the fringe independent media there are, and thank God.
	But in the regular media, they're all captive to those bureaucracies.
	And it's scary.
	And Americans, and particularly Republicans, have no idea.
	Republicans are totally on guard for reporters telling them that maybe Joe Biden is not senile.
	They're like, oh, you're a liar. Shut up.
	But when someone comes out, particularly on a trusted news channel that the right watches and is like, no, the Pentagon reported today that there were gas attacks in Syria, they just believe it.
	They totally believe it. They don't know they're being lied to, which is so scary.
	If you don't do their bidding, all of a sudden your access is out, and then once you don't have that access to them, then...
	You don't bring anything to the table in DC anymore.
	So even though it's been proven over and over and over again that they're lying to you,
	if you're not doing their bidding, it's even worse because you don't have access even to
	the misinformation that you're being given that you're supposed to run with.
	Totally true.
	But at a certain point, you know, you get to an age, and by the way, that's true on all beats, and I've been involved in some of them personally, so I've seen it.
	But at a certain point, you're like, is it worth it?
	I'm going to lie?
	Like, I'm a free man. I'm not a slave.
	Like, I'm an American. I should tell the truth, and I'm going to be judged on this at some point anyway.
	So, like, no, I'm not doing that.
	And yet, they do.
	And I just couldn't have more contempt for them.
	I just couldn't. And I don't, you know, whatever, I don't want to say more than that, but I mean, that group of people is really poisonous, and they've really hurt this country, and no one says that, but it's true.
	Well, that's why I'm glad you're doing what you're doing.
	I look forward to everyone checking it out.
	Watch what Tucker's doing. He's one of the few people that's actually willing to have that honest conversation in media these days.
	And the faster we start having that conversation, the faster other people start adapting that and spreading it out there.
	I think the faster we can actually make real change.
	So I really appreciate you doing what you're doing, Tucker, and the friendship as always.
	So thank you so much.
	And everyone, check out what he's doing.
	I think you're going to really enjoy it.
	Let's go hunting. I'll see you.
	Don, thank you. Okay, guys.
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