Dinesh D'Souza - CHRISTIAN PERSECUTION IN NIGERIA Dinesh D’Souza Podcast Ep1182

Oct. 3, 2025 - Dinesh D'Souza

58:34

CHRISTIAN PERSECUTION IN NIGERIA Dinesh D’Souza Podcast Ep1182

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	Is the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians?
	The revival of an ancient conflict recorded in the Bible.
	The nation of Israel is a resurrected nation.
	What if there was going to be a resurrection of another people?
	An enemy people of Israel.
	The Dragon's Prophecy in Theaters October 6th and 8th.
	Streaming and DVDs available October 9th.
	Get the film at the Dragons Prophecy Film.com.
	Hi everyone, I'm Danielle DeSouza Gill.
	I'm so excited to be hosting Dinesh's podcast today.
	Um, I hope you all are ready to watch the dragon's prophecy coming out in theaters.
	Make sure to go to the website and get the get tickets.
	It's gonna be in theaters next week, and that's it.
	Only in theaters next week.
	After that, the only places you can watch it are streaming or DVD.
	So if you want the theater full experience, go in with friends, um, make sure to go to the dragonsprophecy movie.com.
	Make sure to check it out.
	If you can't find it, you can always go to one of Dinesh's social media pages, go to Facebook, Instagram, X, and you can click through there to find it.
	Um, but today we are going to talk a little bit about the threat of radical Islam.
	We're gonna be talking about um Sharia law, we're gonna talk about Christian persecution in Nigeria, and we're gonna talk about what is happening in the West today.
	What is kind of our biggest battle ahead of us?
	And then we're gonna have a little surprise guest from someone who you may all know and like, aka Dinesh will be our guest today.
	I'm gonna ask him a little bit about the movie.
	We're gonna get some behind the scenes information on what it was like making the film, and uh yeah, it'll be really fun for me to interview him and uh have him on on his own podcast.
	So we will talk to him very shortly and let's get started.
	America needs this voice.
	The times are crazy in a time of confusion, division, and lies.
	We need a brave voice of reason, understanding, and truth.
	This is the Dinesh D'Souza Podcast.
	Since the election last year, a greater number of Americans have been openly rejecting many of the brazenly degenerate tenants of woke culture and giving conservative ideals a fair hearing.
	There's a sense that the culture is healing or at least on the road in that direction.
	The fever has finally broken, and we are now moving on from wokeness as a nation.
	We are moving on from the leftist madness from the confusion from the mere novelty, the chaos, whatever it was that occurred during the dark days of wokeness.
	And since the assassination of Charlie Kirk, there have been notable increases in the numbers of those registering as Republican, in the numbers of those who are going to church.
	We have seen increases in the number of turning point chapters that are opening, even far left bastions in media and wall street have either chosen to be more nonpartisan or to openly embrace conservative ideas.
	And by conservative, I mean tradition.
	For all intents and purposes, it is the cultural power of the political left that is waning.
	In the wake of Charlie Kirk's assassination, many more Americans have been converting to Christianity, choosing to investigate Christianity, choosing to open a Bible and see if it is something they are interested in.
	They are curious about what it means to have a traditional life, whether or not they want to get married and start a family and do all of those things that the left kept telling us was not cool.
	Now all of a sudden, those things are cool again and are coming back into the culture.
	So we need to make sure this is not something that becomes a moment or something that's only right now but is long-lasting, something where we are really rebuilding our culture for generations to come.
	But even before his assassination, there was a noticeable uptick in Christian conversions throughout the country.
	It's good that we are winning the cultural fight against the left, and that many young people are turning back to God.
	It's good that in the process we are becoming not just more Christian, but we are becoming more confidently Christian and more truly devout in the way that we are pursuing that.
	Because you could say, oh, you know, America's was Christian, you know, even these last however many years, but how many woke churches did we see?
	How many people were, you know, maybe Christian in name only?
	And so now we're seeing people, I think, actually re-examine themselves, re-examine their faith, and perhaps renew it or again investigate something new.
	Perhaps they hadn't been exposed to it before.
	As much as we would like to declare victory and sit on our laurels right now because we feel like things are going in the right direction.
	I have a not so great feeling that we shouldn't be celebrating yet, because leftism is not our last opponent.
	For lack of a better term, you could say that leftism is not gamer culture, as gamer culture would call the final boss.
	Leftism is still around, and they are still more radical than ever.
	They've recently have been championing Kamala Harris again.
	We saw recently Matrell Maddow was interviewing her and praising her.
	And of course, the new favorite on the left now is Zoran Mamdani, the communist running for mayor in New York as the Democrat nominee.
	And so the left is just becoming more radically left.
	They're leaning into leftism, and I don't even see an off-ramp for them.
	And so, really, the solution is a lot of people are just off-ramping from the Democrats because the Democrat Party has just gone off the deep end.
	And so we need to think about the fact that mass deportations barely started before a certain other migrant class in America started flexing its muscles against our culture.
	It's almost as if they sensed the vacuum forming within the removal of violent gang members and criminals.
	Once those illegals were removed, they started to fill a void.
	Maybe you have noticed, but in places like Minneapolis, Dearborn, Michigan, Philadelphia, Plano, New York, there have been massive demonstrations, militant gatherings, streets blocked off with loud speakers for Muslim prayer.
	Loud speakers blast the call to prayer from pre-dawn hours and throughout the rest of the day, even when such activity is against the municipal noise ordinances.
	Those cities I just mentioned are famous American cities, some of which have major significance in our nation's history.
	But there are many other Islamic enclaves developing across the country in places like Florida, California, Washington, DC.
	You haven't heard how both the inmate and guard populations in the DC prison is majority Muslim.
	The observation is, admittedly, anecdotal, but it comes from the inside.
	And that's the kind of scuttle butt you miss when you don't befriend your local January 6th.
	At any rate, the idea that even our nation's capital is becoming this place where we have an Islamic hotbed is cause for alarm because we aren't just talking about a religious affiliation.
	These cities allowing mosques to violate noise ordinances Is a good example of the mindset of a faith that believes Muslims and non-Muslims must live according to different laws.
	We have seen that radical Islam is not a faith that imposes certain restrictions like fasting and halal food on its adherence alone.
	It also requires Muslims to treat non-Muslims in ways that are quite harsh in a Muslim majority society, any non-Muslim, be they're Christian, Jew, Hindu, Buddhist, atheist, is by law a second class citizen.
	For example, in radical Islam, you are still allowed to own slaves so long as they are not Muslim.
	That was a big deal the last time Islam started conquering Europe because captured Christians were enticed to convert to Islam in order to purchase their freedom.
	That freedom, however, is only in a matter of speaking.
	You see, the Western idea of freedom is in many ways antithetical to radical Islam.
	The systems of freedom and democracy developed by the Christian West are not considered ideal in Islam.
	Sharia law is completely diametrically opposed to Western civilization.
	Sharia law perceives itself as a kind of divine law and therefore superior to man-made laws, like our constitution, for example.
	Much of the concern about the establishment of Sharia law enclaves in the West centers around the creation of certain areas where American laws are abrogated in favor of Sharia law, laws that require women's heads to be constantly covered, or to wear a burqa, laws that require non-Muslims to pay the local mosque attacks, laws that ban the sale of alcohol and pork.
	And it's not a secret that both abrogating and expanding the territory where Western Christian ideals aren't allowed is also part of the plan.
	In the US, in Germany, and in the UK, plans to replace the native populations of those countries are tied directly to plans to replace Western forms of law and rights with Sharia law.
	It's the concept of personnel is policy on a civic scale.
	Today, we non-Muslims can pass any laws we want banning the implementation of Sharia law.
	But if we become a voting minority in a decade or two, such laws will simply be removed by the majority Muslim populace.
	That replacement is being plotted through two vectors.
	One is mass migration, legal or illegal.
	There are many examples of the intersection between growing migrant populations and the promotion of anti-democratic, anti-Christian, anti-Western policies and the politicians who push them.
	Politicians like Rashida Talib, Ilhan Omar, and um Zoran Mam Dani are proof that this strategy is being carried out before our very eyes.
	The other replacement vector is birth rate.
	When divided up by religion, there's evidence to support the idea that Muslims have a higher birth rate than people of other faiths.
	One Islamic scholar in Sweden claims that Muslim women have as many as seven children per family on average and will thus overtake the native Swedish population in roughly 10 years.
	Last week, Dinesh did a really good interview series with son of Hamas, former Palestinian militant Mossab Hassan Yousf.
	In that interview, Youssef pointed out that currently Muslims account for approximately 25% of the global population.
	This is a number that has been steadily increasing, according to Pew, and the largest world religion currently, which is Christianity, only stands a few percentage points away at roughly 31% of the global population.
	But as Youssef said, you don't need a majority to run things, and even a local population of only 10% can have an enormous impact.
	So let's look at this.
	We just looked at a portion of the world population that harbors radical ideas towards the treatment of women, as well as what can be described as an institutional disdain for Christianity, for the West, for freedom of speech.
	This demographic sees the American constitution as flawed, as our systems and as being in dire need of Sharia law.
	And to top everything off, they're growing in numbers globally and are openly planning to replace our people, our laws, our religion, and customs.
	It sounds pretty bad.
	Well, there's more.
	Up to now, we've been talking about, let's say, vanilla version of radical Islam.
	But actually, there is a worse version of radical Islam.
	And it has existed for a while.
	And unfortunately, um, terrorist groups are actually hiding still out there and are torturing Christians.
	We have seen the unjust unfathomable slaughter of Christians in Nigeria.
	It is one of the most pure persecuted areas to be a Christian today.
	And I think that the Holy Spirit is very strong there because there are many Christian martyrs, people who uh lose their life and are tortured because of their faith.
	And um I know a lot of people are not covering this.
	A lot of people are afraid to talk about it because people are afraid of radical Islam, uh, which makes sense, but we cannot not speak out.
	If we are Christians, we have to speak out for Christ and speak out for our faith and speak out for the martyrs who have lost their lives because they refuse to denounce Jesus Christ.
	And when we look at this radical ideology, when we look at these gruesome acts of violence to achieve their utopian goals, um, and I'm talking about um something that's very evil, where Christians are killed and are persecuted for their faith.
	Uh, Yusuf, if you didn't see the interview, is someone who is uh son of Hamas.
	So his father was founding members of Hamas and he left it.
	He's converted to Christianity, he is uh completely um, I think has a fatwa on him from his father, which means that people are uh under Sharia law allowed to kill him because of his conversion to Christianity.
	And um, we've seen people like this stand up for their faith and they refuse to denounce Christ.
	So, under this form of political brainwashing, where somehow people think this is okay, or somehow people think that this is uh something we should let slide or not discuss, just shows how we many of us in the West are blind to the real threat before us, which is the persecution of Christians.
	It is now becoming much more controversial to be Christian, certainly in the West, but definitely in other parts around the world, and we can't take that for granted.
	A lot of us think that you know being Christian is just kind of being a nice person and just you know believing in Jesus and going with the flow.
	No, that's not what Christianity is.
	Sometimes Christianity is extremely difficult, and sometimes it is hard to follow and be a Christian because of Christian persecution.
	We saw this with the early Christians.
	I talked about this yesterday on the show.
	If you uh saw it, if you saw it or listened, um, I talked about how early Christians were persecuted, some of them were crucified, some of them were burned, and this form of um attacks on Christians, we are seeing even today, even today.
	And some of the killings in Nigeria have just been reminiscent of the fact that Christians have been tortured for 2,000 years.
	So we cannot forget that.
	We cannot be complacent.
	And I say this because I think in America it's easy for us to be complacent and feel comfortable and think, oh, it's fine, who cares if there's Sharia law?
	Who cares if you know everybody believes all this weird random stuff?
	Well, what is the ideology behind that belief though?
	Let's unpack what that is, because if you think about what that is, it is diametrically opposed to Christianity, to democracy, to freedom of speech, human rights.
	So the base of support um for um Sharia law, let's say, is Muslim conquest.
	And Muslim conquest is something that we need to be aware of and be um mindful of because in places where it's easy for us to be comfortable and forget about it, then we all of a sudden see, oh my gosh, this is popping up here, and is going on much closer to home.
	So we've seen shiftless college-age kids, a lot of them have been duped on social media by bot farms run by Qatar, Saudi Arabia, China.
	This group of people are somehow think that Israel is our greatest threat.
	When in fact, radical Islam is clearly our greatest threat, and is clearly something that is directly attacking Christianity.
	In the interview, Yusuf said he's been warning nations to follow the example of countries like Jordan and Egypt, who won't allow Palestinians into their countries.
	And we have to wonder why that is.
	And haven't you noticed that all these military-age Muslim men have no interest in going to Muslim countries?
	Hmm.
	Wonder why that might be.
	They actually want to go to Christian Western countries.
	Why would that be?
	Because they want to topple it.
	They want to take it over, they want to infiltrate.
	And there are many countries.
	There are many Muslim countries all over the world, especially in the Middle East and Asia.
	But why do they want to bring Sharia law to Europe?
	Why do they want to bring it to Texas?
	Places like that.
	Because they know that these are centers of Christianity.
	These are places where their views are not the majority.
	So if they can infiltrate, if they can get in there, then that will be a big win for them.
	So we need to, as Christians, be aware of, first of all, that this is happening.
	And second of all, not become complacent to the fact that, oh, we live in America, we live in a Christian country.
	That could slip away from us.
	That could cease to be the case.
	And the reason I bring up these persecutions in Nigeria is because they're sickening.
	And also because we could see some things like that occur here if it gets that bad.
	I noticed how previous Palestinian refugees allowed into Jordan immediately attempted to overthrow their king.
	Egypt has been increasingly hostile to the Palestinians because they represent a consistent national security threat.
	Not only are we allowing people who hold radical ideologies into our borders now, they're currently in the process of capturing our universities.
	We have extremely radical professors who are indoctrinating young minds with honestly borderline terrorist ideas.
	You may have noticed an increase in the number of voices suddenly in politics, even on the left.
	We talked earlier about Mamdani or Ilhan Omar.
	Ilhan Omar is an elected congresswoman.
	So that is just frightening.
	And to hear them talk, you think that, oh, you know, is this just some random weird person in the country?
	No, this person is literally an elected office.
	Um we have to remember, and we cannot forget the fact that if people show us who they are, that is who they are.
	No, no matter no matter what.
	And so to kind of diminish it or act like it's silly or not a real threat is not smart on our part.
	And ultimately, it isn't even, let's say, Ilhan Omar herself's fault.
	It's the fact that we let in all of the constituents who vote for her.
	That's why she's there, because even if she wasn't elected, someone else from that area who has just as radical views as hers would be in that place.
	So immigration is really at the core of this, and that's illegal and legal immigration.
	That has led to this huge problem where we are choosing to torpedo our own nation from within by allowing people with radical Islamic views into this country.
	Politicians like the squad, Zoran Mam Dani, they are perfect examples of how radical Islam even turns into communism.
	Now, many people used to say, oh, you know, how would these things be connected at all?
	Well, Mom Dani knows that he can't just Win based on Sharia law.
	And so communism or something like that, that might appeal to more people in New York City.
	A number of voices on the right have been encouraging his opponents to consolidate.
	We saw that Eric Adams dropped out of the race.
	However, this is really not totally relevant unless the Republican drops out, unless people, let's say, coalesce behind Cuomo to defeat Mom Donnie.
	There's not really much time left in the race.
	And even if they do that, honestly, Mom Donnie might win anyway.
	So we're not really in a good spot, honestly, when it comes to New York City.
	And this is a city that is sort of an emblem of America.
	You know, it's certainly very liberal, certainly has a ton of problems, but that doesn't mean we should just write off places like New York City and say, okay, cool, why not you all become communist over there?
	Why don't you just elect people like that?
	Because no, these are American cities.
	These are places that people from all over the country go to visit.
	There are places that people might go for an internship or take a job up there, maybe go to school.
	And if we give up our American cities and say, okay, the right's just going to be in a rural areas, we've given up part of our nation.
	We can't let that happen.
	I mean, we still have um a country, an American culture that I think can be recaptured.
	We even saw in the death of Charlie Kirk how many celebrities, how many sports teams were talking about it.
	So we can't just write off the culture or liberal areas of the country because I think we actually are making inroads there.
	We are changing minds, and more people are leaving the Democrat Party as the Democrat Party becomes more radical.
	So I think what we're going to see going forward is these places like New York are just going to be off the cliff.
	And then these other places that are liberal, and they actually start becoming more conservative.
	For example, Florida has recently become more conservative.
	Swing states, I think we may have a good shot in keeping longer term.
	But anyways, when we look at Mom Dani, he is typical of one of these kind of high profile, you know, wealthier guys who's not really one of the people, but he somehow thinks he's a communist because he gets to be on top.
	He's planning on um appropriating uh housing in the area, turning it into communal housing.
	All of this.
	Now, I guess this sounds really great to everybody, but what would end up happening to that city if this happened?
	Well, the answer is that it will be extremely unsafe.
	It will be extremely hard to do business.
	I imagine a lot of normal people will have to leave the city, especially um people with young families, uh middle class people, because it's just not going to be safe.
	You just aren't going to be able to live and work there.
	Um, I imagine the people who are lower income aren't going to be able to leave.
	It's actually not that hard to move.
	I know sometimes it's conservatives will say, hey, person, why don't you just move away from your liberal place, move to this conservative place?
	Well, sometimes people can't just move.
	They have a family, they have a job, they have life in a certain place, and it's not that easy to just move across the country.
	So some people, unfortunately, are gonna be victim to the horrific crimes and the horrible things we see under this Democrat leadership in these sanctuary type cities.
	Um, anyways, you may be wondering where this is all going.
	What exactly does Christianity, Sharia law have to do with the West's struggle to maintain its institutions?
	Well, I want you to take note that the forces at work behind the scenes are American leftists.
	Their common goal with Sharia law, with communists, radical left, their common goal is the just dissolution of Western civilization and Christianity.
	They just find Christianity repulsive, they find Western civilization, which is built on Athens and Jerusalem, um, repulsive.
	They don't like it.
	They're triggered.
	And we can look back at the ravages of American leftism and see that it has indeed made us weak.
	Sometimes we've given in to them, you know, conservatives years ago, they'd be like, oh, you know, that's okay.
	We'll let this one go.
	No, it's not okay.
	Because now we're in a place where atheism and radical leftism is the de facto uh view of the left.
	They've gone so far off the deep end that it's almost impossible to really find any common ground with them anymore.
	Um, We've seen that by Christians giving up the public square, by Christians saying, oh, you know, separation of church and state, we can't um we can't force this on anybody and so on.
	We can't talk about this.
	No.
	As a result, Christianity has taken a back seat.
	And honestly, Christianity's effects, Christianity's effects on society, living in a country that has a Christian culture is good for everyone.
	It's good for Christians, it's good for Muslims, it's good for atheists, it's good for everybody because Christianity is the only religion that believes in mercy.
	We're the only religion that believes in forgiveness and grace.
	And so living in a society that enjoys the fruits of that kind of belief is good for people.
	So by Christians kind of being afraid to speak their mind, being afraid to take on the culture, that has hurt everybody.
	And the left has coalesced, they've come together, they brought together radical Islam, they brought together the communists, they brought together these different uh groups that all are disgruntled.
	And they've said, we're gonna unify, we have a common goal.
	So on our side, we need to do the same thing.
	We need to stand up for the nuclear family.
	We need to stand up for two genders.
	We need to stand up for life.
	We need to stand up for stay-at-home mothers.
	We need to stand up for men, being masculine, treating conservatives as second-class citizens, by depriving them of their jobs, their culture.
	This is not okay.
	And demoralizing us by denigrating the West's achievements and government, culture, science, and having developed in spite of the Christian faith when the exact opposite is actually the case.
	A lot of this came about because of Christianity.
	None of these horrible things would have happened if our nation had stayed the course and stayed strong on Christianity.
	Whenever Christianity is weakened, it is very bad for America.
	Very, very bad things happen.
	And so the more revival we see in this country of Christianity, the better it's gonna be for everyone.
	Whether you're conservative or liberal or any religion, it is going to be better for everybody.
	And the West has unfortunately become a little bit listless.
	They've become complacent in their faith.
	And we've seen in Europe the devastating effects of this.
	As they've become more atheistic, they have allowed more radical Islam to infiltrate and take over.
	Well, you have to ask yourself, okay, let's say you're a disgruntled Christian, you don't really want to be Christian anymore.
	If you want to be atheist, why let radical Islam take over?
	Radical Islam is horrible, but somehow there's become this alliance between radical Islam, atheism, all of these things trying to topple what is good in our society in Christianity, Western civilization.
	So it seems like they kind of have these different goals, different purposes, but yet they've coalesced, they've come together, they've become a force.
	Well, we are also a force.
	And that's why I want to point out that we're seeing a revival, we're seeing ourselves moving in a good direction.
	The West has been bouncing back a little bit.
	Um, that hasn't been without difficulty because we've seen these, you know, wokism, communism, all of this stuff starting to like fester.
	But I think wokeism is going down.
	It is really not cool anymore.
	Um, to paraphrase G.K. Chesterton, we found ourselves standing for nothing and therefore falling for anything.
	And that allowed wokeness to date to take rise because we started, again, giving in on so many things, wokeness kind of was able to pop up.
	But if we don't give in, wokeness has no chance.
	Wokeness makes no sense, it's not rooted in rationality, it's not rooted in goodness.
	We instinctively understand now that it's Christianity, it is faith in God that is needed in our fight against corruption and the rot of our civilization.
	Christianity also has a winning track record in very real things like fighting slavery and standing up for the dignity of women.
	Christianity was the first, and really is the only religion that champions women in a sense of seeing them As complementarian to men and having a um wonderful and beautiful kind of relationship and the the marriage relationship and the differences between men and women and so women are very celebrated in in Christianity.
	And that is not the case in other religions like like Islam, for example.
	So this battle we face now against the American left is not new.
	It's not this defining battle of our time.
	This has always been the case where you have those who are on this uh who are on the side of Christianity and then those who are not.
	And um we just need to be mindful of the fact that as we are being optimistic here, as things are getting better here, as we're seeing wokenesses dying.
	Um, there are still Christians around the world who are being persecuted for their faith.
	And so we need to pray for them and keep that um at the forefront of our minds today.
	And um, I'll just leave it at that.
	I know a thing or two about being targeted by the government, but hey, don't give them a reason to target you.
	Owing the IRS back taxes, well, that's a good way to get targeted.
	Are your tax returns still unfiled?
	Did you forget to file for an extension?
	The October 15th deadline is fast approaching.
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	Well, everyone, we have a surprise guest, as I mentioned at the top of the show, someone that you all know quite well.
	Our friend Dinesh is here to join us.
	And he is back with us, but we are actually going to interview him this time.
	So we're having a little bit of a switch of chairs here.
	But um we are gonna continue to talk about the film.
	This is called The Dragon's Prophecy.
	I'm sure you all have been getting your tickets because it comes out in theaters on Monday and on Wednesday.
	And so you don't want to miss seeing it in the theater to get the full experience of the theater.
	So we're just gonna ask Dinesh a few fun questions.
	We're gonna get a little bit of the behind the scenes details.
	I'm sure he has told you guys more about the themes of the film.
	But maybe we can hear a little bit about what it was like making the movie, as um you know I have not had the privilege of getting to go to Israel yet, even though everyone besides me has been many times.
	So uh what was it like traveling to Israel?
	You're now very familiar with the area.
	What are some things that jumped out to you immediately that made you think, oh, I really like to come film over here?
	Well, uh, Debbie and I went for the first time in the end of 2022, and we didn't go by ourselves.
	We went with a big Salem gang of 300 people.
	Uh, Sebastian Gorka and I were the speakers.
	Uh, I remember Danielle when they first invited me, I was like, I can't exactly be like a tour guide because I haven't been before.
	It's gonna be like new to me.
	But they were like, no worries, you and Gorka are just gonna talk about uh political issues, international issues.
	We will have local guides.
	Now, when I got to Israel, I think the thing that struck me the most is that in today's world, the world is becoming so much more similar that you can go to other famous cities: Paris, Copenhagen, Zurich, and first of all, they all look the same.
	They look like cities anywhere else, they're interchangeable.
	There might be a few um local old churches, but by and large, they're homogenous.
	Now, Israel is not like that.
	When you get to Israel, you are actually in the land of the Bible.
	It is it is recognizably ancient, not just because of the ruins or monuments.
	It's the people, you know, the you we're seeing a kind of modern-day miracle, which is that the Jews have come back.
	They look like the Jews who left, they wear clothes that look not that different from our picture of, let's say, the way that uh the you know the Virgin Mary dressed, um, and uh the Jews who stand outside the Wailing Wall, a lot like the Jews who pr who were there in Solomon's Temple in Solomon's day.
	So you have this feeling that you are carried back in time, and that the descriptions in the Bible that you've learned about since a child are in some ways now more like in front of you.
	So it gives a kind of concreteness or reality to the Bible that I found very interesting.
	And this is before I even became exposed to any kind of biblical archaeology.
	I'm just talking about taking in the aroma and the scenery of the place.
	Mm-hmm.
	And then what kind of gave you the idea to end up making a film there?
	What was your kind of uh inspiration to begin with?
	Did it start with the archaeology, or was it reading Jonathan Conn's book?
	Was it more of the political um issues going on over there with Israel and Hamas?
	Or what was kind of the first thing that that made you think it would be a good film?
	Well, the idea for the film came in three parts.
	So the archaeology, which we discovered initially in uh 2022 was fascinating unto itself.
	Uh, I've long wanted to make a film on Christian apologetics, but I always thought the apologetics I've been writing about before, life after death, the issue of the big bang and the origin of the universe.
	Uh these kinds of things are not very easy to illustrate uh cinematically.
	But when I was in Israel, I was like, wow, there are seals and parchments and stones and inscriptions.
	There's a kind of visually interesting picture here.
	So I was actually thinking not of this film, but a film that would deal with the validation of biblical archaeology.
	And then fast forward a few months, October 7th.
	Suddenly we are drawn into this horrific attack.
	I'm looking at sort of the videos of this attack.
	They're kind of hard to believe that we would see these atrocities in the modern age.
	Not only that, they're filmed by the people who did it.
	You know, it's almost like the serial killer who goes from home to home, and he's the one making the videos because he's really proud of his handiwork.
	These are the Hamas videos.
	So, but then I thought to myself, like, what does the one have to do with the other?
	Like, what does the biblical archaeology I saw earlier, how does it relate to October 7th?
	And there is an answer to that question, which is this.
	Um, the underlying question in this kind of fight is always, whose land is it?
	And it got me thinking philosophically about not just about Israel, but like anywhere in the world, how do you get to own a piece of land?
	I mean, how do you get to take a piece of land which is in the ground, God made it, put a fence around it, and then say, this is mine, and this is mine in perpetuity.
	So it got me thinking very broadly about the connection between the war and the biblical archaeology.
	So those are the two pieces of the puzzle.
	The third part came later.
	On my podcast, quite by chance, I had Jonathan Kahn on to talk about his new book, The Dragon's Prophecy.
	And I was, I didn't, I hadn't at the time even really read the book, which unfortunately sometimes happens because I'm doing a daily podcast.
	I get these books in the mail, I kind of skim them a little bit.
	I like to read them, and of course, after my conversation with Khan, I went back and read the book carefully.
	But in the conversation on this podcast, you know, I'm listening to Khan and I'm like, whoa, uh, this is such original stuff.
	I haven't heard it before.
	The Philistines, the Palestinians, and drawing out those comparisons.
	And I thought, the that so far I have the past, which is the archaeology.
	I have the present, which is October 7th and the ongoing war, but what I don't have is the future.
	And what Jonathan Khan is bringing in is an element of biblical prophecy.
	So I said, hey, if I can find a way, it's not going to be easy, but to make a tapestry, integrating the past and the present and the future, it's going to be a really good film.
	In fact, it's going to be a film that is uh that ascends above the political.
	It has the political.
	It's going to have all the current debates.
	In fact, it's so topical uh that we have the left-wing critique, we have Ilhan Omar in the film, we have Tucker Carlson in the film, Ted Cruz.
	Uh, I'm asking Netanyahu to respond directly to Tucker.
	So, in the in a way, the film is right on the ground, but at the same time, it is in the clouds in the sense that it is pointing to spiritual realities and apocalyptic possibilities that go way beyond the ground level.
	Interesting.
	And what was your favorite scene to film while you were there?
	Well, the the archaeological stuff is so rich that I could only do a taste of it in the film.
	This is not this is a film which is uh tempting.
	You know, Jonathan Kahn is kind of like uh a Bible guy.
	And what he does is he expounds the Bible in a very arresting, fascinating way, but his audience is entirely made up of, you know, churchgoers, right?
	These are these are people who accept the authority of the Bible.
	And I realize that I'm putting a film out there and it's going into the secular world.
	It's gonna have, it's gonna have Christians, it's gonna have some people who are skeptics and they're gonna say, well, this is all very interesting, Dinesh, but how do I know that the Bible can be trusted?
	How do I know that the Bible is describing actual events, real people, real history?
	Uh yes, we have all these figures in the Bible, Pontius Pilate, King David, but do we know for a fact?
	Do we know by evidence outside the Bible that they're real?
	This is what the archaeology is is kind of going into.
	And um, And what I find fascinating with the archaeology is not simply like here I am standing on the ruins of King David's palace.
	True, that's really cinematic.
	I mean, you've got walls that are like 20 feet thick.
	So think about it.
	This is not some ordinary Hebrew guy's home, right?
	It's uh, it's uh this would be a thick wall for a mansion today.
	It was obviously some kind of a royal building.
	But there are some really minor figures in the Bible.
	These are like this guy was the royal steward of King Hosiah.
	Or this guy was like, this is a guy who was hanging around the court that the king said, go keep an eye on the prophet Jeremiah.
	You know, it would be like this D. It would be like if somebody were to, based on archaeological evidence, uncover the name hundreds of years later of one of President Trump's interns, right?
	Now that's what I'm getting at is nobody writing the documents 300 years from now would have heard of this guy.
	He's a minor figure.
	Yeah, he was in the White House briefly, his name was on some roster, but he's not a significant figure.
	And so if his name turns up on a seal or a letter or a stone, then it shows you that the people who who wrote the Bible, who wrote that account must have been very close to those events.
	In other words, if if you can find a seal that belonged to the cook of the king, then you were living at that time, or you talked to somebody who knew all about the palace and knew about that cook's name.
	So my point is it's the validation of minor figures in the Bible that is the crusher.
	It shows not that it shows that the Bible is accurate at the granular level, and it also shows it could not have been composed by people simply embellishing or making up these accounts hundreds of years later.
	Wow.
	Interesting.
	And going to the political, going a little bit back to what you were saying earlier.
	So you mentioned kind of there is conflict on the right about the Israel issue, about the area.
	What inspires you to want to weigh into this?
	Because there are some people who feel very strongly either way, and some people who maybe they don't really want to make it their main issue.
	So what has inspired you to say, I'm gonna make a movie on this, I really want to talk about this more, make uh case for Israel, let's say.
	What kind of what what what led you to want to speak out on it so strongly?
	Well, I've done Christian apologetics now, going back to the early 2000s.
	Uh I've written three books about it, and I have very deliberately and carefully not gotten involved in denominational or inter-necien squabbles, by which I mean uh I defend you could call it Nicene Creed Christianity, C.S. Lewis calls it mere Christianity.
	Uh I'm not getting into the denominational fight, and I'm also not getting into the denominational arguments about prophecy, because as you know, there are the pre-millennials and the post-millennials and the people who think that uh the king that Jesus will come and physically rule for a thousand years, uh, and what they do is they they lay out a chronology.
	This will happen first and second and third and fourth, and I don't get into that.
	Um, in fact, my view is that that is not uh I don't even know how to do that because to me the book of Revelation is deliberately veiled.
	Why is it written in such a kind of mystical, obscure, some would even say obscurantist language.
	Uh we know somebody in common who says, well, you know, John must have been really high when he wrote it, you know, obviously being irreverent.
	But the point being here that I think that the the uh the the reason the book is veiled is we are not expected to know the blow by blow of it.
	So uh my jumping into this debate is not motivated by taking sides uh between replacement theology and covenant theology.
	Um what I'm defending is the mainstream of Christianity.
	And the mainstream of Christianity is that we have an old testament uh and we have a new testament, and the new testament does not replace or abrogate the old.
	Now, in Islam, by the way, there is a Doctrine of abrogation.
	And the doctrine of abrogation is abrogation, just basically means repudiation.
	It means canceling out.
	And so in the Quran, you have like peaceful verses and violent verses.
	And some of these Muslim authorities will say, well, listen, the peaceful verses don't matter because the violent verses came later and they abrogate the earlier verses.
	So the new verses cancel out the old ones.
	There is no indication that this is true in the Christian understanding.
	The New Testament is engrafted on the old, it is a fulfillment of the old.
	God makes concrete historical promises and he always delivers.
	And so when God says I'm giving this land to Abraham and his descendants in perpetuity, he means it.
	He doesn't say I'm giving it conditionally.
	He doesn't say, Jews, you better do some good behavior or I'm taking it back.
	So again, you know, someone could say, I don't accept the Bible, and then I have to have a different argument with that guy.
	I've now got to look at arguments based upon conquest, arguments based upon the UN giving that land as part of a treaty.
	I've got to talk about who were the original inhabitants of that land.
	But I'm talking now about the debate among Christians who accept that God did in fact have a covenant with Abraham.
	And I'm distinguishing between the covenant of giving a deed of land over to Abraham.
	That I think is not repudiated, and the spiritual covenant, which I think, yes, there we are under a new covenant.
	We are under a new passport to salvation.
	Jesus is in fact the only way.
	So you know how Augustine talks about the earthly city and the heavenly city.
	This is a city of God, the two cities.
	We have to distinguish the pledges of each of those.
	The God makes earthly promises to an earthly people that he keeps.
	That's the city of man.
	And God makes heavenly promises, that's the city of God, and he keeps those also.
	So where replacement theology is right, they're right about the city of God.
	They're wrong about the city of man.
	God does, in fact, have a new covenant.
	Uh, and the new covenant does replace the old, but the new testament does not replace the old testament.
	I mean, think about it.
	We don't follow Jewish rites and rituals.
	We don't eat Jewish food like Matso, we don't keep kosher, but we are expected to keep the Ten Commandments.
	We still revere Abraham and Isaac and Moses.
	We still keep the, we still uh revere the Hebrew prophets.
	Nobody would say something like, you know, Isaiah and Jeremiah were on God's side, but God has decided to basically tell them to take a hike because ever since Jesus came, no, Jesus actually uh presents himself as the fulfillment of the uh of the things that those prophets foresaw and foretold.
	So the New Testament and the Old are like attached at the hip.
	They're inextricable the one from the other.
	So I'm getting into the debate out of a desire to defend again the mainstream of Christianity against what I see to be not just politically poisonous, uh divisive for MAGA, bad for Trump, but really what I see as as heretical and anti-Christian ideas masquerading as Christianity.
	Hmm.
	Interesting.
	Maybe you can unpack a little bit more the threat of Islam, because I talked about that a little bit earlier in the show, and um some of the things I was focusing on was the persecution of Christians in Nigeria, and we've seen a lot of um just really horrific persecution going on there.
	We've seen Catholic priests who have been killed, and um, Christians who refuse to denounce Christ and will lose their life because of that.
	So can you explain a little bit about you mentioned there are violent verses or also peaceful ones.
	Um, I usually refer to it as radical Islam or Sharia law, but what is it about maybe Islam that leads to um the persecution of Christians?
	Okay, so there are two points I want to make in this connection.
	The first one is this, Uh and this is coming straight from Jonathan Khan.
	He says that one of the signs of the end times, well, one of them is the Jews coming back to their ancient homeland.
	Another that has not happened would be the rebuilding of the temple.
	But but one of them is that there's going to be a double attack.
	There's going to be an attack by the dragon, which is the devil, and it's going to be on the Jewish people on the one side, and on what Khan calls the spiritual Israelites.
	That's you and me.
	That's the Christians.
	So the devil hates both.
	He hates the Jews as the kind of original people of God, and he hates the Christians who are the engrafted uh uh inheritors, if you uh can say of the kingdom.
	And so when you see both happening at the same time, rising anti-Semitism to the Jews and vicious anti-Christianity, and notice where it's coming from, the same place.
	Radical Islam is attacking the Jews, radical Islam is attacking the Christians.
	So it's not one or the other.
	It is it is actually a sign of the times that the attack is on both fronts.
	Now, the what did the radical uh Islamists want?
	Um, if it was that all they wanted is free Palestine, and if the Jews were like causing trouble for the rest of us because they were the root of why the Muslims hate us, then you can blame Israel.
	But the truth of it is that radical Islam comes out of the Arabian desert.
	Uh, the radical Muslims are in Saudi Arabia, they're in Egypt, they're in Pakistan, they're in Turkey.
	These people could care less about Palestine.
	They don't spend one minute of the day worrying about Gaza.
	Now, they use Hamas as a tool.
	If they can get Hamas guys to go blow themselves up, they feel great about it.
	But they are up to global jihad.
	And what that means is why are they doing it in Nigeria?
	Here's why.
	A lot of these African countries, D are basically poised.
	They're 50% Christian, they're 50% Muslim.
	But the reason that they get 50-50 is that the Muslims aren't converting anybody.
	They're just having like six kids.
	So the Muslims are increasing by you could call it multiplication.
	But the Christians are increasing by conversion, and the Muslims are terrified of it.
	And so they are lashing out, they're beheading Christians.
	Why?
	Because they are fighting for control of those areas.
	And isn't it amazing that we in the West, we in the area of Christendom pay no attention to what is happening to Christians in those regions, even though the radical Muslims are uh on a bloodthirsty rampage that makes anything that happens in Gaza look trivial and minor uh by comparison.
	So, this in my view is why Jews and Christians need to be uh united in fighting radical Islam, and Israel is doing it with a an effectiveness that I wish we knew how to do.
	Like, think about this thing with the pagers, right?
	You got all these terrorists, hello, Abdul, you ready to go on your jihad?
	Bam!
	You know, the pager blows up uh in his face.
	Uh, and this is happening to a thousand people simultaneously.
	I mean, if I wish the CIA could do that, but it looks like our CIA guys are basically all in high heels going to DEI eventually.
	Wait, you're you're saying that the terrorist has a phone and then it blows off on him.
	Right.
	I'm saying what the Israelis did is they planted a explosive device inside the pager so that all these radicals, as they are communicating with each other, their phones blow up.
	And so this is like a brilliant uh tactic that was used by the Mossad.
	I'm saying this is all great stuff.
	I wish we could do it.
	We don't even know how to do it.
	Israel is doing it, and I'm saying what we should do is appreciate this country that is fighting our fight in a very dangerous part of the world.
	Yes, absolutely.
	Well, we are out of time.
	So thank you for joining us on your show.
	And your listeners will see you next time.
	Well, that wraps up today's show.
	If you enjoyed the show, I am Danielle DeSuzagill.
	Make sure to find me on all the platforms.
	I'm on Facebook, Instagram, X, Rumble, YouTube, True Social, everywhere.
	So make sure to find me.
	I love getting to be here today and yesterday on the podcast.
	Dinesh will be back with you guys for the next episode.
	And make sure to check out the dragon's Prophecy in theaters only this coming week.
	That's it.

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