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Oct. 26, 2023 - Dinesh D'Souza
49:16
ARE WE IN TROUBLE? Dinesh D’Souza Podcast Ep 694
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Good afternoon. This is Brandon Gill.
I'm Dinesh's son-in-law filling in for Dinesh today and tomorrow.
He's busy with his blockbuster new movie coming out this week, Police State.
It's been huge. It's sold out in theaters across the country.
It's gotten a riveting response because it's so eye-opening.
If you're a regular listener to the Dinesh D'Souza podcast, you've heard from me before.
I'm the founder and editor-in-chief of an America First news outlet called DC Inquirer, which I highly encourage you to read.
We're breaking news, the stuff that you definitely can't miss if you want to consider yourself up-to-date on politics.
And our articles are often shared on social media by President Donald Trump.
And if he reads DC Enquirer, then you should too.
So make sure to check us out at dcenquirer.com.
That's dcenquirer with an e.com to subscribe to our emails and get news updates.
You can find me on Truth Social at Brandon Gill.
I'm on Twitter or X, whatever you want to call it, at RealBrandonGill.
And you can also find me on Facebook and Instagram.
There I write down a lot of my thoughts on politics and current events.
But most importantly, make sure you check out Dinesh's newest film, like we said, Police State.
It exposes the left's plans to turn America, the America we know and love, into something utterly unrecognizable.
The film has been a huge success, and if you haven't already, you absolutely need to see it.
and you need to get your friends, family, acquaintances, and even your enemies to watch it too.
You can go to policestatefilm.net.
You can get tickets to our virtual premiere, which is tomorrow, Friday.
And if you do that, which I think you should, you'll get to hear exclusive Q&A live from Dinesh D'Souza and Dan Bongino.
You'll hear an awesome performance from the MAGA rapper, Forgacio Blow, and it'll really be an amazing night.
I'll be there in Vegas.
Dinesh will be there, my wife, Danielle, and the baby, Marigold, will be in Las Vegas.
You should definitely stream in.
It's all live, and you need to get tickets ahead of time.
Again, it's policestatefilm.net.
Today, we're going to be discussing what's happening on our college campuses, how Jewish students are being discriminated against, and we'll talk about the police state as it relates to January 6th.
We have one of the most prolific January 6th lawyers joining us later today, He has represented and is representing more January 6 cases than anybody else out there.
So it'll be a really interesting interview.
make sure you join and let's get started.
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That's kirkelliottphd.com and Welcome back to the Dinesh D'Souza podcast.
I'm Brandon Gill filling in for Dinesh today and tomorrow while he's out on his massive media tour Promoting the blockbuster film police state. It's been selling out theaters across the country. People are loving it. The reviews have been Fantastic, so I highly encourage you guys to check it out on Friday. There's the virtual premiere You can stream it live Friday night and afterwards there is a live Q&A with Dinesh and Dan Bongino or they'll
answer all of your questions about the film and Give you a bit more of an insight into making the film and a bit more in depth Of some of the topics discussed in the film that you just can't get in a hour and a half two hour documentary. Again, the reviews have been fantastic.
People are loving it.
We're hearing reports all over the country that theaters are ending the movie by standing up, giving standing ovations, or oftentimes singing the national anthem alongside the movie in unison.
Really powerful stuff.
So definitely get tickets to the virtual premiere if you haven't yet.
And if you can't do that, you can stream it on Rumble starting Saturday.
So do that. Come up recently pretty aggressively ever since the terrorist attack in Israel a few weeks ago where Hamas terrorists paraglided into a concert in Israel.
It was actually a concert for peace and slaughtered hundreds of innocent Israelis, including women and children and babies, oftentimes in utterly gruesome ways.
We've seen, shockingly, what you would expect to see in the U.S. is you would expect to see large movements against Hamas, against radical Islam, and you would expect to see a much more strong sense that Israel should be defending themselves.
Instead, particularly on college campuses, we've seen the exact opposite.
Pro-Palestinian and oftentimes just openly Pro-Hamas terrorist activists in America have been rallying.
There was a rally the other day in Ilhan Omar's district where a man was driving his motorcycle down the road holding a Hamas flag.
Again, Hamas is recognized as a terrorist group by countries all over the world, including the United States.
And we have people promoting them domestically.
But one of the places where this is the worst is on college campuses.
We've got Jewish students all over the country who feel, for good reason, unsafe in their own classrooms, and that's because we have people cheering for the destruction of Israel.
People cheering things like, from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free.
Well, that means from the river to the sea, Israel doesn't exist anymore.
We have people saying that Zionism is a scourge.
It's lumped in with colonialism and needs to be eliminated.
And we're seeing this from college administrators as well, as much as we are from students.
But first, I think it's a good time to take a step back and realize that a lot of this kind of anti-Jewish bigotry isn't new.
It's not unique.
It's been happening on college campuses for a long time.
It's just They've sort of waited until there was this massive massacre of innocent Israeli Jews to really come out of the woodworks and be more aggressive about it.
But there's also, for the past 20 years, has been a pervasive anti-Christian and anti-white bigotry on college campuses as well.
And I'm going to read you just a few examples from the past year.
Just so we can get a sense for how deeply ingrained not only anti-Jewish bigotry but anti-white and anti-Christian bigotry is on college campuses.
And some of these are just mind-blowingly crazy.
These are headlines from Campus Reform.
Syracuse U bans a church from school property for upholding Christian sexual beliefs.
Syracuse University has barred a church from holding its services on university-owned property campus.
Citing alleged violations of the university's standards of inclusion.
But we have notified the Radiant Church that they are not allowed to host their services on Syracuse University property, Syracuse said in a statement to campus reform.
Again, if you don't toe the liberal orthodox line, they don't tolerate you on campus, at least at Syracuse.
Here's another headline, because it's not just secular colleges, it's Catholic University students petitioned to ban Christian group from campus.
So this is coming from the students at a Catholic university.
This is DePaul University in Chicago who are petitioning to ban a group from meeting on campus for its traditionally Christian views on human sexuality.
They called the Christian group homophobic and got over 700 signatures.
This is at Michigan State.
Michigan State warns All of those are relevant right now.
In winter and spring, avoid references to majority religious imagery and language, such as the word merry or Christmas tree, wreaths, holly, bells, gifts, reindeer, bunnies, eggs, and chicks. Use terms like wishing you a wonderful winter slash
spring break or best wishes for the new year reads the guide.
And that's in Michigan State.
Here's another one.
Offended and shocked, student reacts to Christian privilege display at his university.
Campus Reform correspondent Jacob Stewart recently appeared on Fox & Friends to discuss an understanding Christian privilege display at a school, Indiana University, Purdue University, Indianapolis.
you Obviously, the whole point of Christian privilege is to make sure that you know if you're a Christian, you have some kind of advantage that other people don't, and we need to socially recognize that.
And ultimately isolate you and make sure that you are separated from everybody else.
Here are some of the more egregious and disturbing ones.
This was about a year ago.
It was in December of 2022 at Harvard.
There's a musical at Harvard that portrays Judas from the Bible as a gay individual who falls in love with Jesus.
The musical, quote, reimagines Judas Iscariot as a queer Asian American high school senior who falls in love with Jesus, betrays him, and learns to take control of his own narrative.
Producer of the play Sophie Kim described the musical to the Harvard Crimson as a, quote, heretical Gazean love story, whatever Gazean means.
And even at my own alma mater, Dartmouth recently hosted a drag show with a topless nun in it.
I mean, I could give you about 50 more examples of this, but you get the point.
You hear about this stuff every day.
But the point is to say that it's not just Jewish bigotry that we're seeing in college camp.
We've seen anti-Christian bigotry for a long time.
Ask any college student who's been in college in the past 15 or 20 years what it's like to say that you're a Christian on your campus.
How do other students respond?
How does the administration respond?
And it's almost universally negative.
You're seen as backwards, as bigoted, as stupid.
You're not seen as cool.
You lose social standing.
You lose academic standing, oftentimes, amongst your professors.
And it's not talked about very often.
For whatever reason, I guess we've kind of bought into this idea that America is a Christian-majority nation and that Christians have all the power here.
But on college campuses, that's certainly not the case.
And we've known for a long time that college campuses also are flagrantly anti-white.
The entire DE&I, diversity, equity, and inclusion regime, is based on non-white racial superiority.
The idea is that diversity now means everything but white.
It means every race but being white, which means that it's anti-white.
And that's what privilege means on college campuses, is anything is promoting anything now that's not white.
That's why college campuses oftentimes have ethnic studies departments for every single ethnicity or race other than white.
So we're seeing this kind of This anti-Semitism is a good reminder that bigotry of all kinds of forms is pervasive on college campuses.
But I do think that the anti-Semitism is kind of a uniquely malevolent force.
And part of that is because they're so open to violence against Jews on campus.
I'm going to read you a study that just came out from Harvard-Harris.
The study was asking, do you think the Hamas killing of 1,200 Israeli civilians on Israel can be justified by the grievances of Palestinians, or is it not justified?
Overall, 76% of respondents said it was not justified, but 24% said it can be justified by the grievance of Palestinians.
Again, this is the attack of innocent women and children of Oftentimes burning people alive, beheading people, raping women, incredibly disturbing things.
And 24% of American respondents think that that can be justified.
But what's most disturbing is if you break it out by age, the age cohort that's 18 to 24, which is college students and recent college grads, amongst that group, 51% I think that the massacre against Israeli Jews can be justified by Palestinians.
What's even more disturbing is that when asked, that same cohort was asked, do you think Hamas fighters are more appropriately called militants or terrorists?
The majority also said terrorists, which means that there's a portion of Americans aged 18 to 24 who both think that these Hamas fighters are terrorists and that they're justified.
In other words, political violence is justified if your grievances are acute enough.
It's incredibly disturbing and that's why we're seeing all kinds of anti-Semitic behavior on college campuses.
Jews told that Israel needs to be eliminated.
You have people going through their signs on college campuses putting pictures of Israeli children that have been slaughtered.
And Palestinian students or just pro-Palestinian students going by and tearing them down and telling Jews that they're not welcome on their campuses anymore.
And it's terrifying, but I think if we take a step back, we also realize maybe it's actually not that surprising that in a world where BLM can loot and riot and murder people...
And cause all kinds of social mayhem and still have a large portion of America who supports them.
Maybe it actually shouldn't be surprising that political violence is becoming normalized.
It's not just against Jews.
Political violence in general is becoming normalized.
There was a case, I think it was last week or the week before, where an American voter was talking to Vivek Ramaswamy.
And he asked Vivek a question.
Vivek answered... And then the guy got in his car and rammed it into Vivex.
And the guy, my understanding is, pretty much got a slap on the wrist and was let go.
This kind of stuff can't last because it destroys civilization.
And one last point I'll make here is that maybe it shouldn't be...
Very surprising that we see that the same people who are on the left, who support BLM, and who have had a kind of anti-American, anti-colonial attitude towards America are also rabidly anti-Semitic.
And a lot of the reason for that is because they see Israel in the same light they see America as.
Israel's a colonizer in their minds before 1948, before the Israeli state was created, The Palestinians were living in peace.
They were one with nature, blah, blah, blah.
And then Israel came and all of a sudden ethnic tensions arose.
That's obviously nonsense, but that's kind of the decolonial view of history in the Middle East.
But that's the same view they have of America, which is that the American Indians and Native Americans were living in harmony, peacefully existing on the continent until the white colonialist settlers came and introduced all kinds of diseases and violence.
So it shouldn't surprise us at all that the support or the opposition I should say to Israel overlaps heavily with Black Lives Matter and the American left.
All we can say now is that this has to stop.
We have to get anti-Semitism off of our college campuses, but we also need to get anti-Christian bigotry, anti-white bigotry off college campuses, and there has to be an end to political violence in America.
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Welcome back to the Dinesh D'Souza podcast.
I'm Brandon Gill.
Filling in for Dinesh today while he's on his Whirlwind media tour promoting Police State.
Again, it has been in theaters.
The virtual premiere is tomorrow, which you can watch.
Get tickets at policestatefilm.net if you haven't watched it yet.
And get your friends and family to buy tickets as well and to make sure.
This is a movie we need to get as many people to see as we possibly can.
So tell everybody you know about it.
Speaking of police states, we've talked a lot about January 6th really for the past three years.
And we have a new guest with us today.
His name is John Pierce.
John is a lawyer and he actually represents and has represented more January 6th defendants than any lawyer in the entire country.
John is a trial lawyer.
He's the founding and managing partner of John Pierce Law.
He was described by Benchmark Plaintiff Litigation 2012 as one of the most esteemed jury trial lawyers at the world's largest business litigation law firm, and the Legal 500 United States 2015 praised his, quote, real trial presence.
He's the chairman of the NCLU, which is the National Constitutional Law Union.
He's a Harvard Law graduate and a veteran, and again, like I said, he has represented more January 6th He knows this inside and out.
John, thanks for joining us.
Thank you so much, Brandon, for having me on the show.
I'm a huge fan of Dinesh and the show, and I'll be going to see that movie tonight, so looking forward to it.
Perfect. Yeah, I appreciate it.
John, tell us a little bit about yourself and how you made your way to these January 6th cases.
Give us a little bit of information about some of your legal background and how you got here, just so we can kind of know.
We've been following these cases for so long, and to hear that you've You represent so many of them.
I'd love to hear a little bit about more how you got here and what you do.
Sure. Just briefly, I guess the best way to put it is I'm a recovering big firm lawyer.
After Notre Dame, where I went to college in the Army for a few years, somehow somebody must have made a mistake up in Cambridge, Massachusetts and let me into Harvard Law School and did the big firm thing for about 15 plus years.
And, you know, really kind of got tired of that, kind of working for the big corporations, etc.
So I decided to start my own firm right in the beginning of 2017.
And I really didn't set out to do any of this kind of work.
I mean, I've always been a, you know, very patriotic, sort of, you know, MAGA, conservative type throughout my whole life.
But I was really just starting my own law firm to...
You know, do the kind of work that I wanted to do.
It just happened to be the case that really, unbeknownst to me, at that time, things were happening behind the scenes with respect to, you know, the Russia hoax and with respect to the efforts to prevent President Trump from winning and then, you know, taking office and being successful.
Those things were kind of percolating right at the same time that I started my own firm.
And so really, you know, in...
In 2018, as these things started to really come to the foreground in terms of the litigation aspects of them, I and my firm, we were retained by George Papadopoulos, and so I'm the lawyer that helped George Papadopoulos get pardoned by President Trump.
That led to me representing Carter Page in all the FISA abuse litigation.
That led to me representing Mayor Giuliani in the Ukraine probe that was ultimately dropped.
I represented Tulsi Gabbard against Hillary Clinton.
I represented Kyle Rittenhouse in the Kenosha shootings.
And really, as soon as my role in that wrapped up, January 6th happened.
And I guess I had some prominence out there that folks knew that I was a lawyer that would stand up for these kind of cases.
So folks started hiring myself and my firm very quickly.
And within a matter of a few, several months, we had A couple dozen cases.
And at this point, I think we have about 38 active cases right now.
Wow, it's wild.
And before we get into the January 6th cases, I'm curious.
I went to Dartmouth and I worked in finance for several years.
So I'm familiar with maybe some of the crowd you used to be around, whether it was in the Ivy League or in Big Law.
I used to talk to a lot of those guys.
I can't imagine...
You have a whole lot of friends there anymore after leaving the business side of legal practice and getting involved in things like whether it's Rittenhouse or Papadopoulos or definitely January 6th.
I mean, I can't imagine more unpopular things to get involved in.
So what's that been like?
Yeah, I mean, I haven't talked to anybody in one of those big law firms in a few years.
I guess it's no surprise.
And, you know, it's probably...
One of the reasons I really didn't fit in there in the long term was that I just care about the country.
I care about civil liberties.
I care about civil rights and the Constitution.
And unfortunately, and it's really shocking to me and it's really shameful, there are none of those big law firms that are helping any of the January 6th defendants from a pro bono standpoint.
I mean, you probably know this as well as I do.
Let's take the AMLO 200, the 200 largest law firms by revenue in the country.
They have tens of thousands of lawyers.
They bill millions of hours a year, and they are very quick to talk about their pro bono programs and their willingness to help the downtrodden and the most vulnerable and those who don't have a voice.
And they're happy to represent terrorists at Gitmo.
And those kind of things.
But I'm not aware of a single pro bono hour.
I could be wrong and I'd be happy to be corrected, but I'm not aware of a single pro bono hour that one of those law firms has spent helping January 6th defendants.
And I think that is a shameful, disgraceful, honestly, episode in the American Bar that we're going through right now in light of that.
It is. It's amazing how, and I think it's hard to comprehend sometimes, how stacked This is against these guys.
Like I said, you work with or you have worked with 38 of them.
If you just take a step back, sort of zoom out, 30,000-foot view, from our standpoint, we hear about individual stories all the time.
This guy's been in prison for two years waiting for trial.
This guy just got a 10-year sentence.
This other guy, he's been in prison and he's got another sentence coming on.
They're adding all kinds of I mean, we hear about this stuff all the time, but if you zoom out, what are some of the general trends and issues you've seen with the January 6th cases?
Sure. So I think first and foremost, what you're seeing from the Department of Justice, which I'm sure is driven by direction from the White House, is an absolute scorched earth campaign, too, in my view.
You know, terrorize regular American citizens and attempt to intimidate not only these defendants but intimidate future Americans from speaking their voice on some of the most important core political issues that would be protected by the First Amendment.
I think, you know, secondly, folks need to understand how incredibly difficult it is to have any kind of success in the D.C. courts with these juries.
As folks probably know, these are 97% or something like that, Biden voters.
It's actually getting to the point now where during jury selection, these jurors are getting recycled through.
So during jury selection, when you get the first, let's say, 50 potential jurors and you start to go through what's called the voir dire process, you learn very quickly that probably about a quarter of them Just got done serving on a jury for a January 6th case, you know, weeks or months before.
And so, you know, you're going through the same, you know, sort of jury pool that is...
Kind of issuing conviction after conviction.
And so, you know, that's incredibly challenging.
I think, you know, the other thing that I'd like to make sure people know, and this is really outrageous and I'm not sure people realize this, you have a lot of really sort of selective and vindictive prosecutorial tactics that are going on right now.
And the following example, I think, shows this very clearly.
With respect to most of the defendants, the people who really didn't do anything that bad in terms of, you know, no violence, no property destruction, essentially they get charged with glorified trespassing.
They typically get charged with a standard set of four misdemeanors.
And then the DOJ really pushes these people hard to plead guilty because they want to stack up the number of convictions they have.
But what's happening now is the DOJ is really punishing people who do not plead guilty in the following way.
These folks who want to go to trial and exercise their constitutional right to go to trial, they will have these four misdemeanors pending over them for, let's say, a couple years, and then they're heading toward trial.
And then a few weeks or a month before trial, the prosecutors will come to us and say, Hey, guess what?
In preparation for trial, our view of the evidence has changed.
And so congratulations, here's a superseding indictment with a 20-year felony charge of obstruction of official proceedings under 18 United States Code, you know, Section 1512.
And so what's happening is they're being punished for not pleading guilty.
And so, you know, now all of a sudden you have folks who would really be facing a maximum of one year in prison if they go to trial, facing potentially 20 years in federal prison.
And so that's just an example of the kind of tactics that you're seeing from the government in these cases.
Right. And there's a case just like this or very similar to this in the movie in Police State where a terrorism enhancement was added to one of the charges of a January 6th defendant, which ended up being too much for him to handle, knowing that he's got the full might of the federal government coming down on him.
Help us understand this.
The whole point of having a jury of your peers in the justice system is so that you can be judged by people who are part of your community, who understand you and your unique local circumstances.
That's been in the Western legal tradition for quite a while.
It's part of our constitution.
This seems so out of line with that.
I mean, you have people who are from Texas or Alabama being tried in D.C. courts, and the reality is that the people sitting on these trials are so different than what the defendants would be used to.
So help us understand, how is this just and in any sense, even before we get to some of these enhancements?
This doesn't seem right at all.
So, in my view, you're absolutely correct about that.
And if you really think about it, essentially what you have are the purported or alleged sort of victims of the alleged offenses who are sitting on the jury, really.
I mean, because almost all these potential jurors, to some extent, way, shape, or form, or another...
They were in D.C. on January 6th.
They knew people who were at the Capitol.
They had very, very strong feelings about it.
So we have made motions to change venue in every single one of our cases.
Lots of other lawyers have filed lots of other motions to change venue.
All of those motions have been denied.
It is the district court judge in the first instance who gets to make that decision at the trial court level.
Now, it's important to make these motions because ultimately those issues are going to be heard on appeal at the D.C. Circuit and potentially the Supreme Court, but it doesn't help the defendants at the trial court level or at sentencing.
So, you know, I obviously I think that these cases should not be tried in D.C. They should be tried, I believe, throughout the country, you know, where these folks are, you know, from, you know, where they've been arrested.
But that's not going to happen in these cases.
All right. And for those of us who aren't lawyers...
Help us understand, what are some of the things that these people are up against?
Why do we have guys sitting in solitary confinement?
Why are some of these cases taking two years to get in front of a judge?
I mean, what's going on? Yeah, so I mean, there are various issues that these folks are dealing with that you touch on a couple of them.
Let's take, for example, folks who are detained pre-trial.
We've had several defendants that have been detained pretrial.
We've essentially been successful in getting virtually all of those folks released at some point before trial, but it is a very, very difficult road to do that.
Under the way that the federal statutory law works under the Bail Reform Act, if a district court judge finds that a defendant is One of two things, either a risk to the community or a flight risk.
Then under the way that the law works, the judge can make the decision that they should be detained before trial.
I believe that a lot of these decisions are incorrect.
I have a lot of respect for these judges.
I practice before them every day and whatnot, but I do disagree with a lot of these decisions.
And understand, it's not as if they have had a massive amount of bail put on them.
It's that they have no possibility of bail whatsoever.
And so I think that that's essentially a violation of the Eighth Amendment.
And look, if you had relatives that had a billion-dollar house, you still could not get bailed out.
I mean, they are stuck there until trial.
And it makes it very, very, very difficult to prepare for trial whenever a defendant is detained.
In those kind of facilities, just in terms of communication and spending time with them.
What was the other example that you mentioned?
I forget. In your question, you mentioned another example, but I forget now.
Well, I was going to ask you, what can we do to push back against...
A lot of this is driven by aggressive, politically ambitious prosecutors who are deciding last minute that they want to enhance charges or they basically want to scare you into pleading guilty.
Is there anything right now that can be done, whether it's on the legal defense side or people listening, who can stop this?
It seems like so much of this is at the discretion of the prosecutors.
First of all, what I would ask folks to do, which they can make a huge difference of right away, is to go to the NCLU website, nclu.org, and sign up, become a member.
That will make a huge direct impact on helping these defendants.
With respect to the prosecutors and the prosecution, here's what can be done, and it's very frustrating that it has not been done yet, which is we control – The House of Representatives, right?
And I was glad to see today Mike Johnson got elected speaker.
I have not been a fan of lots of GOP establishment types who have been in charge in the House and a couple of these prior candidates.
I like very much what I see from Mike Johnson so far, so I'm very optimistic about that.
But the House, as I'm sure you know, has the power of the purse.
It has the plenary power of the purse.
Not a dime can be spent from the federal government from our tax dollars unless that originates in the House of Representatives.
What has to be done is the House has to shut down these prosecutions.
They need to defund the FBI. They need to defund the DOJ with respect to these prosecutions and shut them down.
They have the absolute power to do that.
Unfortunately, I think a lot of these folks on our side of the aisle are career politicians.
And, you know, they're not willing to kind of, they don't have the will to do that.
But I think that's the most important thing to do right now.
Right. And as you mentioned, a lot of these are really scorched earth legal tactics that they're using.
And I think that there's a lot of appetite amongst people who aren't lawyers, who are just watching this happening.
A lot of the listeners right now are To fight fire with fire.
To say, look, you're doing this to us.
You're weaponizing the justice system against us.
We're ready to turn it back onto you.
How do we fight back against a flagrantly weaponized legal system?
Yeah, I mean, look, there are a couple things aside from the defunding that I just mentioned.
I mean, there are a couple things that can be done.
I mean, I think first and foremost...
You know, and again, as a lawyer, you really hate to see this kind of weaponization of the legal system.
But at a certain point, you know, if the entire left is going to do this to, you know, to our side in terms of our elected representatives, our lawyers are just regular citizens.
To a certain extent, you do have to fight fire with fire.
And, you know, certainly there are lots of – and I would never advocate – Any lawyer on either side taking any step that is unethical or not meritorious.
But certainly there are lots of targets, so to speak, in terms of Democrats, people on the left, who over the last several years, in my view, have clearly broken the law, including, honestly, as President Trump has started to mention, up to the point of actual treason.
And so I think we need to have, in the first instance, we need to have Local prosecutors start going after folks for the crimes that they could say are within their jurisdiction.
And then we've got to get Trump back in office.
And I think President Trump is going to hold these folks accountable in a way that has not been done previously.
So I think that's very important.
And then also, I know this firsthand, unfortunately, But, you know, also folks need to realize that any person can file a bar complaint against any lawyer in any jurisdiction at any time.
And again, far be it for me to, you know, advocate that that be done if there's not a real basis for it.
But, you know, that's something that regular American citizens, if they see something that they think is in violation of the ethics rules, they can file those kind of complaints.
That's interesting. Tell us...
Like I said, you work with so many of these cases.
Is there any one case that you've worked on that you find particularly unique or interesting that you could tell us about?
I know a lot of these are active cases, so you're kind of on touchy ground, but what can you tell us about a particularly interesting case that you've been involved with?
Yeah, boy, there's so many of them.
I mean, you know, one that comes to mind, which was a terrific quote that we got for a client, was for a Navy veteran and a pastor named Kenneth Joseph Thomas.
We took his case to trial in late May.
I believe the verdict came down late May, early June.
He was facing 12 charges, including a variety of felonies and misdemeanors.
Including the 1512 obstruction of official proceedings charge, assault charges, and other charges.
And we won five out of those 12 counts.
We got a not guilty verdict on the 1512 obstruction of official proceedings charge, on violent entry, on various things.
And that was, if not the, it was certainly among the best, you know, results that have occurred so far in any January 6th case.
And I think, you know, with, you know, one of the things that was particularly interesting in his case, for example, was the government was trying to put in evidence that he had torn that white tarp that was surrounding the scaffolding.
That you see, right, with respect to they were setting up for the inauguration.
And upon cross-examination, I was actually by my law firm partner, Roger Roots, who did a great job.
It became clear that it was actually the police officer who was actually on the stand at the time who actually took a knife and cut that tarp, you know, across the entire distance of probably 20-25 feet.
And so, you know, what's so important in these cases is even if you don't get a full acquittal, but, you know, you fight really, really hard.
I think the reason that the narrative is changing in the country right now and people understand what actually happened on January 6th is that by fighting and putting in all this kind of evidence, you know, the American people are able to start seeing, you know, what actually happened on January 6th, which is so important.
Right. Right. What can people who are listening or watching do to help you?
Yeah, and thank you so much for asking that, and we desperately need help.
We represent, again, dozens of these folks.
I have been working so hard on the actual cases that I probably haven't spent enough time getting out there and trying to work to raise funds for these folks, although we've raised certainly several hundred thousand dollars at this point, but we need a lot more.
The most important What folks can do is go to www.nclu.org.
That's the National Constitutional Law Union.
And just sign up as a member, as a monthly member.
And that will go a huge way towards helping us to, you know, just pay the costs of having folks in D.C. and, you know, having the clients travel there and the witnesses, you know, I mean, And that's just to begin with before you even start looking at paying the lawyers.
And so we need a lot of help.
So that's the most important thing that folks can do.
Got it. Well, John, you guys are doing incredible work.
So good luck and thanks for joining us.
Oh, thank you so much, Brandon.
Really appreciate it. Look forward to coming back sometime.
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That wraps up things for today.
If you enjoyed today's show, make sure to check out my website, dcenquirer.com.
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