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Oct. 17, 2023 - Dinesh D'Souza
51:42
GAGGING TRUMP Dinesh D’Souza Podcast Ep687
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Coming up, I'll talk about Judge Tanya Chutkin's gag order on Trump, and I also want to make the case that there is a film coming out next week that is un-gag that will speak in a sort of no-holds-barred manner about all this.
Attorney John O'Connor joins me.
He's an expert on law and the presidency.
He's going to talk about the Trump classified documents case, the roots of the police state, and his role.
He is featured in my new film.
And I also want to contend that the graveyards of Israel might be the place where woke ideology goes to die.
Hey, if you're watching on Rumble or listening on Apple, Google, or Spotify, please subscribe to my channel.
This is the Dimash Kudaibergen show.
The times are crazy, and a time of confusion, division, and lies.
We need a brave voice of reason, understanding, and truth.
This is the Dinesh D'Souza Podcast.
Guys, I want to point out that we are less than one week from Police State, the movie, opening in theaters.
And we've bought out several hundred theaters for Monday, October 23rd, and Wednesday, October 25th.
Welcome to my show!
Put in your zip code. It'll show you the theaters playing near you.
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I think you'll come out of this movie a little different than you went in.
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Now... We're good to go.
Making it very clear that she would love to incarcerate him.
And now she has the opportunity, in a sense, to do just that.
The case has fallen into her hands.
So this is Trump's very bad luck.
But what we're dealing with now is a gag order.
Now, the precise wording of it has not been promulgated yet, but it looks like what Judge Chutkin is going to say to Trump is, yeah, you can say that you're being unfairly treated.
You can speak generically in that way, but you cannot speak in specificity about any of the actions of the prosecutor, that's Jack Smith, the special counsel, any of the members of his team or his attorneys.
You cannot speak negatively about the judge, Tanya Chutkin, or other court officials.
So this is an attempt to shut Trump down.
To, in fact, put the zipper on him and prevent Trump from doing what he does best, which is essentially railing against and invading against and probably specifically denouncing a lot of particular things that are being done to him and will continue to be done to him.
So they're like, let's get ahead of this.
Let's put out the gag order.
And Judge Chutkin says, listen, if you violate this gag order, I will have sanctions.
So she doesn't say what the sanctions are, but she has a lot of power to impose those kinds of sanctions.
Now, so what does this mean?
It means that Judge Chutkin gets to denounce Trump.
And by the way, she has media in the courtroom.
In fact, she often plays to the media.
Feeding them one-liners.
The media is like chuckling.
It's like wink-wink between the media and Judge Chutkin.
Meanwhile, they treat the Trump people as if they're sort of pariahs.
It's like, we know what you guys are up to.
So this is a bit of a show trial that's shaping up in Washington, D.C. We're not seeing that, by the way, in Florida.
A completely different situation with Judge Eileen Cannon in the Florida case.
Of course, the Georgia case hasn't really gotten underway.
But Trump is going to be, at least to some degree, gagged.
And what I want to say in response to all that is, guess what?
Trump may be gagged, but I'm not.
I am un-gagged.
And our film is ungagged.
It holds nothing back.
It's no holds barred.
It is an expose of the police state at a level.
I mean, I'm talking these days to people.
I talked to Eric Metaxas today for his show, Liz Wheeler, yesterday.
And Liz was saying, she's saying, your film, like, It frightened me.
And she said, Police state is the place to go.
And I'm hoping that Trump sees the film.
I don't believe he has yet.
I think when he does, he will be fired up about it because it puts out the message, not just about him, but all the police state thuggery that is happening all around the country.
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Guys, I'm really happy to welcome back to the podcast a friend of ours, John O'Connor.
He is a former federal prosecutor, a prominent attorney, an expert on matters of the presidency.
He's also an author, and he is featured in my new film, Police State.
In fact, the topic I talked to John about in the movie, and we're going to talk about it now, is the origins of the police state.
How did this stuff even get started, and how did it get to the point that we are at now?
John, welcome to the podcast.
Thanks for joining me.
I think you told me a moment ago that you are in Utah playing basketball.
Tell us about that.
Well, that's right. I'm playing at over 75 times.
Bracket Tournament at the Huntsman World Senior Games in Utah.
Very much done for charity, but nonetheless, we have people, males and females, from all over the country playing in everything from ping pong to basketball to volleyball.
And then they give you John, let's talk about the police state something that appears to have been developed with surprising speed in just the last few years.
Not something that many Americans saw coming, at least not coming so quickly.
And yet, the roots of it go further back.
If you had to identify the sort of starting point, is there a starting point for the police state?
And if so, would you put it back to 9-11?
Would you put it back to Waco and Ruby Ridge?
Or would you go even further back?
Of course, I'd go further back.
You can't have a police state unless you have a propagandistic media for one party, for a one-party state.
That's the whole idea of a police state.
You need the propaganda organ.
You need to control the messaging to the population.
And it happened because of the very, very peculiar circumstances of Watergate.
And it happened because of two things.
Number one, the Washington Post had a monopoly.
On the story. Number two, and maybe there's three here.
Number three, they were very much anti-Nixon and also pro-DNC because they were attached to the hip to the Democratic National Committee.
They had shared the same general counsel.
And number three, They knew from day one, the Post knew from day one that the moving force behind the Watergate burglaries was the CIA. They never printed that.
They never revealed it. They acted in concert with the CIA. That's documented in internal CIA documents.
They made a deal with the Post to keep the CIA out of the news.
So what happens is the Washington Post is doing the dealing.
For the police state, for actually one of our intelligence agencies that is illegally infiltrating the White House and ends up ousting one of the most powerful and overwhelmingly re-elected administrations in our history.
So it's really chilling that this could happen.
The combination of The police state, that is to say the actual police state, a counterintelligence agency, and the media.
And they ousted a democratically elected president.
And to this day, it's hard to get by the noise and tell people that this is what happened in Waterview.
Because guess what?
The press won't reveal this.
That's so interesting, John. And willing to suppress aspects of the truth, even when they find out about it.
The classic example, of course, being the suppression of the Hunter Biden laptop.
But you saw this cooking even as early as the 1970s.
Sure. Think about it.
The lesson for young people that ended up going into journalism and journalism schools was, you can get wealthy, You can be famous, you can change society, but you have to join a team.
You cannot tell both sides of the story if you're going to be famous and impact society.
When the young folks were surveyed as to why they were going into journalism post-Watergate, it was to change the world.
Well, if you're going to change the world, you can't print both sides.
That kind of doesn't do it.
So, in essence, the press became, in my view, because I'm a lawyer, it's like a lawyer who could go into court alone without opposition and tell a story with incomplete facts.
And that's what Watergate incentivized.
At the same time, it also gave cover to the 60s.
There are a lot of people my age in the 60s who are professors today on campus and who Right now are, you know, in many cases, protecting Hamas and so forth in this thing and the Palestinian so-called colonization.
So it had its roots back then, but mainly it was the media.
And I think one of the lessons learned by the intelligence agencies was that if you go along with the...
With the press, with the one-party press, they will protect you.
You can help them, they will protect you.
And that's what's going on today.
Now, it's reached full bloom today, but there were people back in my day that were between the ages of 20 and 30, they're now controlling society and the universities and certainly in the media.
Let's take a pause.
We'll be right back with John O'Connor.
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It's D-I-N-E-S-H Dinesh.
I'm back with former federal prosecutor, prominent attorney John O'Connor.
We're talking about police state and the genesis, the origins, the genealogy of the police state.
And John, we talked a little bit about Watergate.
Let's fast forward a little bit.
I was about to go to 9-11, but before I do that, do you think that looking back, the events at Ruby Ridge, which occurred under George H.W. Bush, and Waco, which occurred in the early days of the Clinton administration— Do you think that those were significant way stations toward the police state,
or were those just very bizarre one-off events that don't tell us a whole lot about how this police state developed?
Yeah, I'm more concerned about other events being poorly reported.
Waco and so forth was really the whole idea of maximum incompetence.
I mean, the government was incompetent.
You had Janet Reno making some serious errors.
You had the FBI becoming something that they shouldn't be.
The FBI is an investigative agency.
It should be, not a police force.
And the FBI now, today, likes to act like a police force, like a paramilitary police force.
But, you know, my client, Mark Felt, properly so, considered the FBI to be an investigative agency and the world's best investigative agency.
So to some extent, you are correct.
There is a thread there through Ruby Ridge and so forth and Waco, where we have what should be investigative agencies doing more than investigating.
So that is a problem.
I see a bigger problem with the reporting on 9-11, which was highly, highly politicized.
Everyone, of course, went under their beds when 9-11 happened.
But in the wake of it, the press could not help but politicize this.
This was just a terrible error by George Bush.
He didn't need to go into Iraq, so forth and so on.
But the press hid many facts which would have Made this a much closer call about going into Iraq, and in my view, a clear-cut call, but it could be debated.
But certainly, Iraq was behind 9-11.
The facts are pretty robust that it was Iraq looking for folks, proxies to do this damage to the United States.
And I've done a An article about it where I went through all the evidence of Iraq collaborating with Al Qaeda.
And it's very, very robust proof, but yet the press wouldn't report that.
And so now history is rewritten or is written poorly is what I would say.
John, do you think that, I mean, that's very interesting, and I didn't even know about this because we, of course, the media story is that Iraq was run by a Ba'atist regime, that these guys were secular guys, they have nothing to do with Al-Qaeda.
So that is a very interesting observation.
But it's also true, and you do talk about this in Police State in the film, is that there was a Expansion of the powers given to the police agencies of government, and there was also a dissolving, a dissolution of some of the important lines of separation between, say, intelligence gathering on the one hand.
So talk a little bit about how 9-11 changed what these police agencies were able to do.
Well, of course, President Bush was very upset that there was not better intelligence on this.
And also in 9-11, we had the problem with the intelligence investigators not being able to talk to the criminal investigators.
And that was a big cause of us not stopping 9-11.
So President Bush came in and Bob Mueller was just starting out as the FBI head and said, we want to change this agency to do more intelligence.
At the same time, they broke down what was called the Gorelick Wall.
The Gorelick Wall was named after Deputy Attorney General Jamie Gorelick, who said, well, we don't want intelligence people who come up with all sorts of things outside of the Fourth Amendment, because the intelligence agencies can search without the Fourth Amendment.
And we don't want them using that information to criminally prosecute people.
So I'm going to put a wall between them.
Now, the FBI had always handled this very astutely, in which they didn't have such a wall.
But if they gathered evidence through the intelligence process, they wouldn't use it in a criminal case.
Sort of an exclusionary rule that was informal.
But that didn't dawn on these folks who are really amateurs.
And so what happens is after 9-11, we removed the wall, but we did not put back in place the exclusionary rule.
That is to say, if you gathered information on the intelligence side outside of the Fourth Amendment, you could use it in a criminal case.
So where does that bring us?
If you go up to Donald Trump, to James Comey's March 20, 2017 congressional hearing, He completely combines the whole idea of using information gained in their bogus counterintelligence operation, Crossfire Hurricane, and using it.
He made no bones about it.
He was going to use it criminally if he found evidence against President Trump.
So now we have the beginnings of a police state where you can completely avoid the Fourth Amendment, the constitutional protections we all have, Get information.
Sometimes, as we've seen in the FISA applications, sometimes lying to the court to get it, and then you can use it to criminally prosecute people.
So you talk about a police state, that's it right there.
And I think my client, Mark Felt, would be turning over in his grave now if he saw what happened regarding this whole A Russian collusion investigation.
This was all started with bogus intelligence searches, but more than that, using that information to prosecute people criminally.
And so it was a way of getting rid of the Trump administration really is what it was.
We'll be right back with attorney John O'Connor.
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I'm back with Attorney John O'Connor.
He is featured in my new film, Police State.
And John, you mentioned at the end of the last segment, Russia collusion and the way in which that was deployed against Trump.
It does seem to me that that was an unprecedented mobilization by the police agencies against the election of Trump, I guess, to begin with.
And then once Trump is in office, amazingly, even though Trump is the titular head of the Justice Department and of the FBI, you have his own intelligence agencies continuing the crusade or the campaign, whatever you want to call it, Well, that's right.
First of all, the intelligence agencies picked up right away, to their credit, John Brennan picked up the fact that the whole Russian collusion canard was cooked up by Jake Sullivan, Hillary Clinton's national security advisor, to take the focus off the fact that the DNC computers showed That the DNC was in cahoots with Hillary and against Bernie Sanders.
This could have been very damaging for them politically.
So what did they do?
They tried to put the onus on the Russians for Russian hacking of the DNC computer.
Well, that wasn't enough for them.
They had to say it was in collusion with Trump.
So that's what Jake Sullivan made up.
It was a brilliant, if cynical, So John Brennan knew right away that this was happening.
He had very good Russian intelligence.
Russia knew this was happening because some of their agents were being accused by Hillary and company to put this thing forward.
So what happens is he convenes a meeting at the White House in which President Obama, Vice President Biden, James Comey, the FBI, Loretta Lynch of the Of the Department of Justice and Susan Rice.
And he told them all about what was happening.
Now, what did they do?
They doubled down and they acted as though they went right along with the Russian collusion narrative.
At the same time, John Brennan later, to cover his base, made a criminal referral to the FBI about this fake initiative.
Now, John Brennan is saying that privately, is giving that A referral privately.
But publicly, he's supporting the narrative.
He's supporting the narrative.
So what he does is he then starts a program internally called disinformation in which it's an accepted technique within intelligence agencies to put out disinformation.
So he made sure that if he was caught lying, he could say, oh, this was a disinformation campaign.
So meanwhile, Brennan is going out telling everybody in the world publicly that there's Russian collusion, whereas privately, he's protected himself by saying, you know, this is a phony story.
But you talk about a chilling police state intervention.
Now, meanwhile, let's talk about the media, Dinesh.
You've got the media out there all over this Russian collusion thing, but within a 12-year-old on a computer that wanted to get into this could see that Russian agents were the source of all this.
That is to say, Hillary's people were combining with Russian agents.
Christopher Steele's main client was Oleg Deripaska, very close to Putin, a very big oligarch, for whom Steele had done 105 intelligence reports.
His main client was Oleg Deripaska.
He owned him. And yet Steele's doing the dossier.
Could somebody have figured that out?
Glenn Simpson, Who hired, for Fusion GPS, hired Christopher Steele.
Glenn Simpson was the primary United States contact for the Katziv family that was fighting on behalf of Putin.
Katziv is an oligarch also, but on behalf of Putin, the Magnitsky Act.
So They're involved.
Then you get Charles Dolan, who's a Russian PR agent, is registered as such, and he gets involved.
And then Igor Danchenko, of course, who was the main subsource for Steele, was himself a Russian spy, most likely, and the FBI considered him to be one.
So you have Igor Danchenko, and then he's helped out by somebody named Olga Galkina.
If you look her up on the internet, it's obvious she's a spy.
She got involved just to help on this.
So you have this whole raft of Russian spies working with the FBI, working with a political campaign, all of them together to oust this conservative president.
Now, you can like hunt Trump or hate him, but you shouldn't be using the intelligence agency and phony media to push this story.
But that's what we have. We have a complicit media that is helping house Trump's people.
And you have the police state.
They really have the CIA and FBI that know exactly what they're doing.
They know they're pursuing a phony investigation.
They're clever enough to do it so that, well, they might look bad if they're caught, but they're not going to get a prosecuted criminal.
And that's exactly what happened.
When it came time to, if Hillary would have been elected, none of this would have happened.
Nobody would be the wiser.
But even at that, there was nothing there to get a conviction on, except perhaps against a guy like Danchenko.
And if they would have prosecuted him, big deal.
But the real culprits got away with it.
I mean, what a complete inversion, isn't it?
Because they're accusing Trump of colluding with Russia.
And here you have the very people making that accusation, colluding with Russia to get Trump.
I mean, it's unbelievable.
We'll be right back with attorney John O'Connor.
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You'll get 35% off your first preferred order by using discount code AMERICA. I'm back with Attorney John O'Connor, who's featured in my new film, Police State.
John, let's talk about classified documents, because Trump had classified documents, Biden had classified documents, and I say this because We see in the press and from the left the idea that somehow what Trump did is something far worse.
The idea being that when Biden discovered, oops, I got some classified documents, he promptly reported it, promptly returned the documents, but...
I think what you say in the film is the opposite.
Look, there is a distinction between the Trump case and the Biden case, but it is really in favor of Trump and not in favor of Biden.
So, do explain.
Well, first of all, you know, Biden says, and people will repeat it, the media will repeat it, that, boy, he gave up those documents as soon as he discovered he had them.
No, he knew he had them.
And some of them he had as long as 16 years, you know.
So did he not know he had them?
No. And also, we know that a lot of those documents were at the Penn Biden Center and accessible to the Chinese who supported the Penn Biden Center.
And the documents that Biden had We're carefully chosen.
He didn't pick up just any of these random documents like Trump had.
These were presidential briefings, for example, which contained the most compact intelligence jewels that we had so that the president would know exactly what's going on in every field.
So they're wonderfully valuable materials and they're terribly dangerous materials if they turn up in the hands of the Chinese.
Well, those were the things that somehow were in Biden's possession.
Was it a mistake?
Did he just mistakenly put them in his briefcase and mistakenly bring them to the Penn and Biden Center?
You can't believe that.
Clearly, he was using them to his own advantage, if nothing else, just to tout his influence and Hunter could tout his influence and make a lot of money.
Let's face it, that's what was going on here.
I mean, we know from the business partner that they were selling the brand of Joe Biden.
So is that what was going on?
Well, sure. When you look at Hunter's email, I think it is, to one of the Burisma people, and he's trying to pitch his business, he makes it sound like he probably copies.
It looks like he copies the verbiage from an intelligence report so that his clients will know he's getting it from an intelligence report.
And it's all about US energy policy as it affects some of Hunter's potential clients.
So yes, he's selling influence, but the influence is, some of this is that he has access to classified information.
So he's using classified information clearly.
And when his dad is letting him in on all these things, you can't tell me that Hunter is not privy to classified information.
Anything the president thinks and does is pretty darn important as it relates to national security.
So clearly, Hunter is using classified information.
There's no doubt in my mind, I say clearly, but by a preponderance of the evidence that's going on.
So yes, now, at the same time, so what Biden did bespeaks intentionality.
This is not a mistake. On the other hand, and he had no initial right to possess them.
He was a senator when he got some, he was a vice president.
But under the Presidential Records Act, the person that has some, I would call it an immunity, the president has to turn over all the documents to the archives, which then in return are supposed to allow him access to those.
So it's a very formalistic thing that happened after President Nixon was trying to burn some tapes.
But basically, the Presidential Records Act does not provide an exact time within which Trump has to give those documents back.
Now, once the government started asking him for them, I will say that he probably should have returned them quickly.
But even at that, the National Archives was not doing its duty.
For instance, Trump wanted to say, look, if I give you all these documents, I want you to be able to show me Russian collusion documents in return.
Now, under the Presidential Records Act, he has the right to that.
He has the right to see the Russian collusion documents.
They're supposed to be technically owned by the archives, controlled by the archives, but the president is supposed to get them in a skip.
That's the classified documents.
The archives said, no, we're not going to let you see them.
So, yes, two wrongs don't make a right.
I will say that right now.
But the National Archives was clearly in the wrong.
So that's what probably caused Trump's stubbornness.
Then what happens is the government tried to make this into a criminal case by opening.
Well, they made it a criminal case by opening a criminal case without any justification.
If they knew Trump was holding documents, he was not hiding that fact.
He just wasn't giving them up.
All you needed to do was file a civil suit in Florida and say, Judge, he's not giving us the documents back.
Please give us back. But no, they didn't do that.
They opened a criminal case.
Now, once you have a criminal case open, what happens if you don't comply with the subpoena?
Oh, you're in contempt of court.
What happens if you don't tell the truth about the documents?
Oh, you've obstructed justice.
So they trapped him.
I'm not going to be here defending President Trump if, in fact, he knowingly and willingly lied to the FBI about the presence of classified documents.
That's his vulnerability, by the way, in the Mar-a-Lago case.
That's his one vulnerability out of 91 counts, those obstruction counts.
But nonetheless, he got trapped into it by some very wily people who knew exactly what they were doing.
And that's, once again, you have the archives.
The White House and the media all going against Trump.
So, you know, Trump is a guy that you look at him and you say, gosh, he's not the kind of guy that needs sympathy.
Well, let me tell you, in this situation, he's getting treated very, very poorly.
And the worst part about his voters are getting treated poorly because now they're being deprived really of their right to pick their candidate.
And that's what bothers me.
Not so much any particular thing that happens to Trump or doesn't happen.
It's what's happening to democracy.
And it's so odd that the post has on its masthead, democracy dies in darkness.
Yet, they don't publish two sides to this.
They don't publish the real underlying problems here.
And that's what really bothers me.
And it started in Watergate.
It goes back. Our conversation here started with events 52 years ago.
John, it was a real pleasure having you in the film.
You make a great contribution, and you made a really good contribution here with kind of a detailed knowledge of these things that goes beyond what most people know.
So thanks for spending the time.
Really appreciate it. I know you haven't seen the film in the final version, but I hope that you enjoy it.
Great. Good talking to you, Dinesh.
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Feel the difference. The issue of the Speaker of the House is coming to a head, and there will be a vote.
The vote might actually be as early as today.
I'm not sure by the time you listen to this podcast whether the vote will have taken place or not, but I'm going to give you the lay of the land as of right now.
So, to pull back for a moment after the After Kevin McCarthy got the eject button and Steve Scalise was kind of the next choice, Scalise found that he didn't really have the votes he needed.
There were enough holdouts that Scalise himself had to bow out of the process, and then we got Jim Jordan.
Now, the left is really going after Jim Jordan.
Oh, he's an election denier.
Oh, he's an obstructed justice.
Oh, he was in league with the January 6 guys.
Now, I think the power of Jim Jordan is that Jim Jordan is philosophically conservative, but he's also a really nice guy.
He's temperamentally genial.
This is the Reagan formula.
You're philosophically well-grounded, but you're temperamentally easygoing and funny and willing to talk to everybody.
So often, Republican leaders over the past 30 years, well, since Reagan, have been the opposite.
Philosophically, they're all over the place.
They're unsteady.
But temperamentally, they're very fanatical.
And that's the worst combination to have.
So I think for these reasons, Jim Jordan has...
A lot of the qualities that are needed in holding the Republicans together.
But, that being said, it's important to know that there are some people, and there's a handful of people, but enough right now to deny Jim Jordan the House Speakership.
So, one by one, he is sort of meeting with them, and he's working with them.
And a couple of them have already changed course.
I mean, there were some holdouts who have been mollified and said, okay, I like Jordan, we've had a good conversation, and we are now on board.
And I hope that that process has been, and I'm assuming it has been, ongoing.
So, Jordan needs basically a pretty unified Republican Party behind him.
He can only afford to lose a handful of votes.
Why? Because the Democrats are in a kind of unified phalanx against him.
And the Democrats would love to disrupt this process.
And in fact, I've even been putting out some feelers about the fact that Democrats might be willing to cooperate in picking a speaker.
This would be Democrats allied with moderate Republicans against the MAGA Republicans.
This would be actually catastrophic, terrible.
One of the Democrats I saw yesterday was, I mean, this is really out there, but floating the name of George W. Bush.
Again, this would be, from the point of view of the Democrats, like the ideal choice.
Well, not the ideal choice. They'd rather have their own guy, Hakeem Jeffries, but they're not going to get their own guy.
In fact, no Republican is going to vote for the Democratic leader to become the speaker.
That would basically be throwing away the GOP House majority.
It's going to be a Republican.
But if Jim Jordan can't get the votes, I think he actually will.
I predict that he will get the votes.
The number of holdouts now is pretty small.
And there's been a pretty good campaign being organized by some conservatives.
And that is to get people in the districts of these holdout Republicans to call in and say, Hey, why aren't you supporting Jim Jordan?
Now, one of the reasons that these guys are holding out is not even because of Jim Jordan.
It's not that they buy what the left is saying about Jim Jordan.
It's that they are sort of...
Excuse me.
They are... They're annoyed.
They're smarting under what happened to Kevin McCarthy and maybe what also happened to Steve Scalise.
So, it's almost like these Republicans, establishment Republican types, not even necessarily rhinos, they're saying, listen, you know, we had a speaker, he did have the majority of the House, and then a handful of Republicans, led by Matt Gaetz, kind of pulled the rug out from under him, and down he goes. And then they did the same thing to Steve Scalise.
So why should we now go along with the kind of MAGA candidate who is Jim Jordan?
Well, the only problem with this analysis is that Jim Jordan supported McCarthy.
And Jim Jordan supported Scalise.
So Jim Jordan, while...
I would agree does have a kind of MAGA spirit about him, at the same time is perfectly capable of working with establishment Republicans, Republicans of all shapes and sizes, in order to get things done.
So my hope is, and this is really a hope not even so much for Jordan the man, but it's a hope for the party, for the unity of the GOP. It's also a hope for the country, because with this emerging police state, we need powerful institutions to block it, to start rolling it back.
And, you know, we don't have too many of those.
We have the Supreme Court.
Of course, at the state level, we have some Republican governors and attorneys general and secretaries of state.
But we certainly need, while we have it, the GOP House.
Will Israel be the place where woke ideology goes to die?
I raise this question because it is the question raised in an interesting article that was sent to me by my friend Jack Posobiec.
Jack is at Human Events, and the article appears in Human Events, humanevents.com, written by a fellow named Bill Harrell, Why Wokeness Faces Extinction After Israel.
And there are a couple of points he makes that I want to highlight because they're quite interesting.
He says that, look, on the campus now for years we have been hearing about how you can't be hateful and you can't use all these hateful words.
And hateful words, by the way, including saying things like, a man is a man and a woman is a woman.
That's supposed to be hateful.
And students claim to be triggered by this, and they have pronouns, and you better use their pronouns, and their pronouns don't necessarily match their biology.
And so you've got this sort of campaign on the campus to protect students from any kind of ideas that they find to be disagreeable, that cause them to be in the contemporary parlance triggered.
And then along comes the Hamas attacks.
And some of the same students who have been whining about being triggered and not having a safe space, these are the people who are out there cheering for Hamas.
Wow.
And so Bill Harrell is right on this.
And he says that...
You now have actual violence.
You have women being raped.
You have swastikas being flown in by Hamas supporters.
You have people chanting, kill and gas the Jews.
And amazingly, the same left that has been so concerned about creating this atmosphere of safety on campus Is not willing to condemn all that.
In fact, on the contrary, is on the other side of that.
Is willing to turn Israel into the enemy.
Is, in fact, posting memes.
And here Haral goes even off-campus.
he's talking about, for example, Black Lives Matter, posting memes, but campuses have as well, of Hamas terrorists coming in on hang gliders.
And this is seen as extremely cool.
Look at the audacity, look at the sort of tactical genius of evading a border checkpoint by kind of gliding in from the sky.
And so the ideology of decolonization, says Bill Harrell, has legitimized a whole way of thinking in which minor things on campus cause you to freak out.
And when major things happen, murder, rape, massacres, you're like, well, that is a case where the oppressed are mounting legitimate resistance against a colonizer.
Well, says Bill Harrell, the good news is that for the first time there is a pushback campaign.
And he says that Winston and Strawn, and I'd seen this elsewhere, a prominent law firm, which was going to hire one of these women who signed the Hamas letter from one of these elite colleges.
I think in this case it might have been Harvard.
And then some conservatives compiled, let's call it the college terror list, which is these are all the students at prominent colleges who are endorsing Hamas.
And so this law firm is like, well, here, one of these students was going to come work for us.
Okay. Denied.
We're not going to accept this student anymore.
And so the fact that, and I think it was accuracy in media, one of these groups had a bus going around Harvard with the names of the college terrorists or the college terrorist sympathizers on the bus.
And these people were freaking out and these groups were running to Harvard and taking their names off the letter.
So basically these woke ideologues for the first time are paying a price for their wokeness.
And the ADL, which has been itself a woke machine, has come out strongly in favor of Israel and bashed a lot of this pro-Hamas propaganda.
Apparently the NHL, the National Hockey League, We're good to go.
I know that the Huntsman family, a very generous family, wrote to the University of Pennsylvania and said, hey, listen, if you're supporting Hamas, if you're not going to speak out, because you speak out for all kinds of other reasons.
George Floyd, oh, the college issue is a passionate letter.
So, the colleges could stay out of politics and say, look, it's not our job, and that would be okay, but they get involved all the time.
And so their refusal to get involved here and condemn the attacks on Israel becomes notable.
In fact, it's notable.
The silence speaks volumes, you might say.
And so prominent corporate figures, in the case of Huntsman, a family that has given a lot of money to Penn, But we've seen also some hedge fund guys who give a lot of money to Harvard and other places have basically said, that's it.
Our checkbooks are drying up.
You're not going to be hearing from us again.
Don't approach us for money anymore.
And so, says Bill Harrell, wokeness is now starting to squirm.
The woke ideologues are realizing, A, that there's a giant difference between someone saying something you disagree with and people actually being murdered.
And number two, if you find yourself on the wrong side of that, if you pretend like you can't see that difference...
Then it may be that certain jobs that you want, because at the end of the day, all these woke ideologues are opportunists.
They all want great jobs.
They're not willing to give up money and power in exchange for their virtue signaling.
They want their virtue signaling to be allied with money and power.
And so when money and power says, hey, we've noticed that you're on the wrong side of this, they're like, okay, I withdraw my name.
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