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Oct. 16, 2023 - Dinesh D'Souza
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A JUST WAR Dinesh D’Souza Podcast Ep686
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Coming up, I'll discuss an issue at the core of Israel's retaliation against Hamas terrorists in Gaza, the restrictions on Gaza's food and water supply, and the issue of civilian casualties.
Forgiato Blow, the rapper, joins me.
We're going to talk about the release of his new song, Police State Survivor, which was composed for the movie.
And radio host Jason Rantz comes on.
We're going to talk about crime in democratic cities, the subject of his new book, What's Killing America?
Hey, if you're watching on Rumble, listening on Apple, Google, or Spotify, please subscribe to my channel.
This is the Dinesh D'Souza Show.
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Thought I'd start out with an announcement, guys, on a couple of fronts.
The movie is just one week away.
One week until the theatrical opening of Police State.
So if you have dawdled a little bit until now, it's okay.
But now is the time to spring into action.
And that means to make plans and to get your tickets.
So to repeat, we have...
Bought out hundreds of theaters all across the country.
I don't remember how many there were, but something like 600 or 700 theaters on two days, which is the evening of Monday, October 23rd, one week from now, or Wednesday, October 25th.
And the theater is the way to see the movie, if you can.
Now, some people will say, oh, the theater is a little ways away.
I can't get to the theater.
Oh, those days don't work for me.
And we understand. That's when we could get the theaters.
Theaters don't let us do the buyout on weekends.
We have to do it on a weekday.
But on Friday, October 27th, we have our virtual premiere.
Now, for 2,000 Mules, we had 80,000 people at our virtual premiere, and they loved it.
It's almost like watching the Oscars.
It's a spectacular stage out of a studio in Las Vegas.
We'll have live music and I'll talk a little later in the podcast about who's going to be performing.
In fact, the guest who's going to be performing is going to show up here and you'll get a little glimpse of his song which is written for the movie.
It's called Police State Survivor.
Really cool. And then we play the full movie.
And then a live Q&A with Dan Bongino and me to follow.
And all for the price of a movie ticket.
So the website, policestatefilm.net.
That's the one-stop shop to get all your tickets.
You can't get them from the theater.
You can't get them from Fandango or some other movie site.
You've got to go to the website, policestatefilm.net.
So now's the time to move.
And if you can, go in a group.
Round up your friends and family.
Or if you're in a book club or a church Bible study or even put up a notice at your church, meet us at the theater.
I mean, the cool thing in here is you don't have to buy out the theater.
We already have. So you can buy as many tickets as you want.
You can buy one. You can buy 10.
You can buy 20. If you've got a group of 20, go together.
It's a shared experience if you can make it that.
But if you can't, Watch at home, round up your family, and you're going to see this movie, the relevance, the power of it.
Again, it's one thing to talk about it, as so many people do, in social media and on this podcast.
It's a whole different thing to experience the police state.
It's like nothing else.
So, very proud of this movie, very excited about all this.
And so, time for you to act.
And also help us share the word.
Now, let's talk a little bit about Israel and the ongoing...
Raw debate about anti-Semitism and about Israel's retaliation.
I mean, what's really interesting about all this?
Well, first of all, in Israel, there is a collective sense of trauma.
And you can understand why. It's not just the horror of the attacks.
It is, how did we let this happen?
I mean, you have a festival that was going on that was evidently almost lacking any kind of protection at all.
And so, the Hamas terrorists could go in there and just grab people at will.
You had kibbutzes and families that were undefended.
Now, Israel normally has a blockade, has a line separating the Palestinians from the rest of Israel, checkpoints.
And a very admired around the world intelligence apparatus.
So Israelis are asking, is this a failure of the government?
Is it a failure of intelligence?
How did this happen?
And that's a question that U.S. intelligence can ask as well, because U.S. intelligence is also supposed to be, well, it's certainly the most expensive intelligence in the world.
Giant amounts of resources are devoted to it.
And yet, what happened?
Evidently, people had no clue.
Clearly, the National Security Advisor had no clue, Jake Sullivan, because he said so.
Clearly, Anthony Blinken had no clue.
I mean, these people are clueless to a degree anyway, but you would think that this would be picked up, the signals, the movements.
I mean, at an age of...
Of cell phone geo-tracking and extensive satellite surveillance, many other types of surveillance, not to mention human sources on the ground.
How this got past the Israelis and us is, well, it's not entirely a mystery because there is a police state connection here.
One reason it got right past these guys, our guys, is because they were looking elsewhere.
Israel is at war because of senseless, horrifying attacks from brutal terrorists targeting innocent civilians, including women and children.
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There is a clash that is going on right now in social media and in the media more generally about the morality of fighting this war Israel's way.
And interestingly, the moral questions being raised are being raised only for Israel.
They're not being raised really for Hamas.
Now, I don't know if this is because when you're by and large a good guy, you get held to a good guy standard.
And when you are a known bad guy, you are not expected to conform to any standards at all.
That could be part of it.
But the other part of it is that you've got people who seem to look away from the crimes of Hamas and focus exclusively on the crimes of Israel.
Now, a lot of Jews would say, well, there's antisemitism for you.
That's antisemitism, pure and simple.
And I think in some cases it is.
But in other cases, it's not antisemitism.
It is anti-Israel.
And it's anti-Israel because of a doctrine that holds Israel to be the bad guy.
Israel is sitting on Muslim land.
Now, how you can call this Muslim land when the Jews were there first?
I mean, think of it.
The American Indians were there first, and so we say that America was originally Indian land.
And, of course, there's been a debate in this country about The morality of the Indian wars went against each other, the tribes fighting each other, the white man arriving.
We'll do that another day.
But the Jews were the, we won't call them aboriginal occupants of Israel, but they were there 2,000 years before Christ.
So, in other words, they were there 4,000 years ago.
And I think what I might do, I think I'll do this later this week, is go through the history of Israel's presence in the region.
Because in a way, it is the Muslims who are the colonizers.
They came later. They conquered the territory by the sword.
And now they're acting like they were the original occupants, and somehow the Jews are the conquering power.
At the best, you can say the Jews were there, the Jews were kicked out, pushed into a diaspora, the Muslims conquered it, and then the Jews came back, and then were assigned it by the UN, and then there was a war, and that's how we got modern Israel, with the 48 War, the 67 War.
The Yom Kippur War.
And so there was an element of conquest, I suppose, but this is because Israel was attacked from the outside.
Now, I want to talk a little bit about the just war theory because there's been a just war tradition in the West.
It's a Christian tradition and it spells out the conditions in which a war is just.
And these are worth going through because I think they help us think about the issue.
They don't resolve the issue, but they help us think about it.
Number one... For a war to be just, you have to focus really on two separate things.
The first one is the initiation of the war, the starting of it.
And the second is the conduct of the war, how it is carried out.
So for a war to be initiated, it has to be, in the starting point, a war that is provoked by someone else.
In other words, it's a defensive war.
Somebody else attacked you, Or it could be that they even threaten to attack you and the attack has not occurred, but the attack is somehow coming or it's imminent or you know it's going to happen.
But either way, you are not the aggressor.
That's the first point. The second point about initiating a war is it should be...
A last resort. And by that, you don't start by fighting.
You don't start by going to war.
You start by asking, is there any other way to settle the issue?
And if there's a better way or another way to do it, then you should try that.
And now that may fail, and then you may be forced to go to war.
So I think that applying these two conditions, we can see quite clearly that Israel is justified and Hamas is not justified.
Hamas is not using war as a last resort, and Hamas is the one that initiated the attack.
A war is just if it is waged by a legitimate authority.
In other words, some group of gang cannot start a war.
It has to be a legitimate authority.
In the case of Israel, it is.
In the case of Hamas, it's not.
A war, and now we're turning to the conditions of the prosecution of the war, it needs to be fought with a reasonable chance of success.
and I think Israel does have a reasonable chance of success, and the ultimate goal of the war is to re-establish peace. In other words, it's not perpetual war, it's war for the purposes of creating a new circumstance, a new peaceful condition in which things can go better.
But the most important and applicable condition here And this is really where the difference between Hamas and Israel is the starkest, is in a just war, you cannot target civilians.
Now, civilians die in many wars, perhaps in all wars, but they should not be directly targeted.
Now, Hamas directly targets civilians.
Israel doesn't. This is a huge moral chasm.
And the left Often tries to blur this distinction by showing, oh, here's an Israeli child, and here's an Israeli civilian, and here's a Hamas child, or here's a Palestinian child.
And so there's an attempt to create a moral equivalence, but there's a big difference between going into a home and raping a woman and killing the children, let's say, or even killing the man who's a shopkeeper.
He's not a competent person. And, on the other side, Israel hitting a Hamas communication center or a Hamas meeting facility.
And the meeting facility could be in a hospital or it could be in a home and you hit the home.
But you're not trying to kill civilians.
You're trying to strike at the Hamas combatants, the Hamas terrorists.
And children or civilians in general are regrettably killed as a consequence or in what is sometimes, I think, somewhat antiseptically called collateral damage.
But collateral damage is not the same thing as the intentional killing of civilians.
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Guys, many of you know the conservative rapper Forgiato Blow.
He's based in Florida. He has the number one hit single, Boycott Target.
He's also written some terrific songs, Four More Years, Closer to Home, 2000 Mules.
And he has a new song that is connected with our film Police State.
It's called Police State Survivor.
He's put it out today.
I've been sharing it everywhere on social media.
By the way, you can follow Forgiato at X. It's Forgiato Blow 47.
Forgiato, welcome. Thanks for joining me.
This is awesome. Your song is just fantastic.
Talk a little bit about the idea for the song and the composition process for it.
Well, I love what you do, first off, and I thought it was great you did the 2000 Mules, and then I heard about this movie coming, so I thought, hey, I gotta get on this really mega song, so me and your wife Debbie came up with some good ideas and ran through some things, and went to the studio, made the song, shot the video, and I think it's needed for what's going on right now.
Yeah, music is such a powerful medium to convey these themes.
And, you know, the police state is a serious topic.
And yet, I think the kind of the genius of what you did is you were able to take a song that combined the fear and terror of a police state, but also the spirit of resistance.
And a single song in, you know, two and a half minutes, you can do all that.
So talk about the power of music.
Well, music is very powerful.
A lot of people say they might not even listen to rap music, but it's the number one genre of rap music and people in the world are playing it.
So we definitely need rappers on our side here.
I think it's good for the youth.
I think a lot of people these days don't really understand what a police state is or understand what...
Could happen or where we're headed, right, under this government we have right now.
We're seeing they're indicting presidents.
We're seeing that, you know, there's wars all over the world starting up.
I just think it's good.
I mean, they're forcing, you know, maybe the COVID back again.
You know, it's just good to let people know that, you know, you got to stand up and fight for your rights and just not be afraid.
But it is scary because, you know, the government can do really kind of whatever they want to do.
So I just think it's good for the younger generation to really understand that there's music that's positive and it's also giving you a tip of what might be coming soon.
It's not meant to scare you.
It's meant to alarm you so you know what's coming and you're ready for it.
You are sometimes known as the mayor of Magaville.
You've been a hardcore Trumpster really from the beginning.
Do you see Trump as the kind of the poster boy, not of carrying out the police state, but of being the target of the police state?
And why Trump? Too powerful.
You know, he's a very powerful man.
I'd always play with people all the time.
You know, he's bigger than a sports team.
So, I live in Tampa and I tell people, hey, you know, who's bigger, Donald Trump or the Bucs?
You know, Donald Trump is a big figure.
I think that he can be bought and that...
He doesn't have to listen to nobody, you know?
He's very dangerous to them and what they're trying to push.
The narrative with him, I mean, the media has tried to destroy him for years, which they've succeeded numerous times that we all know doing.
They're coming at him, you know, indicting him for stuff that, why did you not indict him four years ago?
You know, why is everything now getting closer to the elections?
I just think they're very scared of what Donald Trump's going to do.
I think when Donald Trump gets back in the White House, who goes to jail now?
They go to jail. Right?
I mean, yeah. I mean, that's an interesting point.
You're saying that Trump in the first term probably underestimated a little bit the depth of the corruption of the police state.
But then he experienced it directly.
So I think now you have, would you say, he's kind of a man on a mission, and his mission in part is to dismantle the police state.
I think they know that, right?
And that's why it's indictment after indictment.
That's why it's issue after issue.
But I think it only made it bigger.
It struck a nerve with the culture, especially the hip-hop culture and the community.
They could understand what it's like to face an indictment, to face a RICO charge.
There's a lot of people that think that stuff's cool.
There's a lot of people that think that's popular.
It painted him in a different light.
I think at one time a lot of people kind of resonated with Donald Trump that weren't in his billionaire box, right?
And these type of new allegations and things saying that he's doing stuff that I know he's innocent of is obviously making these people being able to relate to him a little bit.
They're understanding Donald Trump a little more.
They're realizing why are they wanting this man to...
He's demolished so much.
One man. Why are they so worried about this one guy?
Why is everybody so worried about him?
It's because he's powerful. It's because he knows the truth.
He knows what they don't want him to know.
I think they know that he's coming back.
He's being really laid back with it right now, but as soon as he gets back in there, he's going to flip a switch and he's going to go at everybody that went at him first.
Do you think that Trump is right when he says that they're really after us?
They're after the Trumpsters and they're after the conservatives and the patriots and the Republicans and the Christians and that Trump is sort of in the way he's interposed between them and us and so they kind of got to take him out first and that's why they're going after him.
Yeah, I mean, what country has it ever been popular for people in the world to attach themselves to the government, right?
It's never been a popular thing.
I mean, take somebody like me.
I'm an urban rapper. I got tattoos, you know, I came up.
And when I rapped about degenerate things and degenerate topics, I was promoted.
It was great. Now when I talk about, you know, voter ID and, you know, not mandating vaccines and fighting the police state, you know, I'm getting banned for this stuff.
I'm getting silenced for this stuff, right?
They banned me for going at Target and, you know, boycotting Balenciaga and all these things that, you know, are attacking the children.
But if I was telling the children to do drugs and do all this stuff, it's promoting.
So I think that's their biggest thing with Trump.
Everybody's attaching themselves to Trump, but they're confused.
Why would someone attach themselves to a former president, the future president, and someone that can put you in jail, someone that can mess with your funds, mess with your lifestyle?
And I think it really confuses them that we attached ourselves to Donald Trump.
and he's not, he's in their way because we listen to what he does and we believe in him right? Donald Trump doesn't need this financially right? Donald Trump's older he could be retired right now not caring about none of this he's risking his life his freedom I mean they're trying to give him well like 30 40 years of prison if the stuff goes through I mean it's crazy to see what they're So I think you have to be alerted right now.
Even if you weren't a Trump supporter, you know, there's a lot of people I know that were like 50-50, you know, they weren't going to vote over Trump, going to vote over Trump.
And now it's like the way different.
They're calling me like, hey, blow.
And I was wrong. We should be friends again.
Like, man, we need Trump back.
I ain't got like people. There's people I haven't talked to.
You know, in three or four years, because I went so hard for Trump, that there were great relationships that completely folded.
And somehow I'm getting back in with these people again, and they're like, I need Trump.
They want to go to rallies. They're trying to back Trump, get behind them.
You know, and I got some different narratives in my brain of what I think they will do.
I don't even think Joe Biden is going to run.
I think they're going to run Michelle Obama, and that's going to be tough.
You know what I mean? That's going to be a tough one.
But, you know, I think they're only going to do that if Trump beats all these indictments.
You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Orchietto, we're going to close out this segment with a little glimpse of your song.
Just not the whole song, but just a part of the song.
But I do want people to know that on October 27th, when we do our virtual premiere out of this magnificent studio in Las Vegas, it's called the War A Studios, you are going to be there live, and you're going to perform the song today.
Then we're going to screen the movie, live Q&A with Dan Bongino and me to follow.
And what's cool is all of this is for the price of a movie ticket.
So the place to go, guys, to get tickets for the theater, but also for the virtual premiere, either one.
It's a one-stop shop.
It's policedatefilm.net.
You've got to listen to this song by 4G AttoBlow.
Follow him on X at 4G AttoBlow47.
Thank you so much, Kurt.
We'll close out with the song, but really appreciate you joining me.
It's a great movie. I got to see it early and I love it.
How will they remember you?
You gon' fight or you gon' fall?
How will they remember you?
Stand tall and be bold.
Bury me a fighter.
Police, they survivor.
If it can happen to me, then it can happen to you.
If it can happen to me, then it can happen to you.
We know they coming and we ain't gonna be running.
We know they coming and we ain't gonna be running.
If it can happen to me, We're good to go.
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One of the things I'm finding as I focus in on the new film, Police State, is how Police State is not just a topic unto itself, but it is a framework or a lens through which you can see a lot of things that are happening, not just in America, but in the world, and you relate them.
To the issue of the police state.
The police state helps you think more clearly about what is really going on.
So I scooped up some headlines, and this is almost a foraging of headlines.
And I want to show how they relate to police state.
There is a fellow running for prime minister in Argentina, and he is a right of center candidate.
In fact, he is given to some very florid and impressive fulminations about socialism and how horrible the leftists are.
Well, guess what?
Right before the election, one month before the election, when he's leading in the polls, a left-wing prosecutor has filed an indictment against him.
Now, the indictment is, it's unimportant what it's for.
It's not, by the way, for any personal corruption.
It's that he made derogatory comments about the Argentine currency, and that caused the currency to go down in value, supposedly.
So it's this kind of preposterous.
But again, I say to myself, police state.
What are you seeing here, if not a police state tactic?
And what it tells you is that the police state is not a risk only in the United States.
In fact, it's not even a risk only in the United States and Europe.
Or the West, we're beginning to see it pop up, the relevance of this theme worldwide.
Somewhere in the film, I use the phrase police planet, and we need to think about this in terms of a police state and a police planet.
Headline number two, Christopher Wray.
I'm very worried that Hamas might be planning attacks in the United States.
Duh! First of all, let's think about it.
If you were Hamas, I was Hamas, wouldn't we figure that, hey, we can do it in Israel, we can also do it in America?
The radical Muslims have been using the terminology of the near and the far enemy for a long time.
Israel is the near enemy, the United States is the far enemy.
So why not? There's a porous open border on the south.
Why don't we send a thousand Hamas terrorists then that way?
And the fact that the Biden regime has not yet closed the border tells you where their priorities are.
Tell you that they know this.
I'm not telling them anything that they haven't thought of, at least I hope not.
And yet they're like, no, we have a different purpose for the open border.
It's aimed at creating a long-term majority in this country so we can build a police state.
So if some Hamas terrorists get through, we're just going to have to worry about that separately.
But the very fact that the FBI and the FBI director are talking about the fact now about, oh, Hamas attacks.
Wait a minute. After 9-11, weren't the police agencies and U.S. intelligence agencies given all this expanded power to go after exactly these Islamic and foreign terrorists who are out to kill us and kill our allies?
Yes, that's why we had the Patriot Act.
That's why we had all this new surveillance power.
That's why we blurred the distinction between intelligence on the one hand and criminal prosecutions on the other.
This is why we allowed warrants and we allowed FISA and we allowed an expansion of FISA powers so you could start surveilling people, even people who had not already committed a crime, because the idea is we've got to stop people from committing future crimes.
But what people? Foreign terrorists.
And yet, the Biden regime, this started under Obama, but it's continued under Biden, so busy building police state powers here in America, going after Trump, going after January 6th, defendants going after other MAGA Trumpsters, going after pro-lifers, going after moms at school board meetings.
They're so obsessively focused on this.
And again, this is not an allegation by me.
They say it. They testified before, our number one priority now has moved from foreign terrorism to domestic extremism.
Notice they can't say domestic terrorism because no one in the MAGA movement has done any terrorism.
I mean, can you find anything domestically that's even remotely comparable to what we just saw with Hamas or any of the other terrorist attacks that we've seen over the past 40 or 50 years?
No, and they know that. So they have to sort of define terrorism down, if you will, make it easier to be a terrorist.
And that's why they have to move, they have to slide between terrorist and extremist.
Extremist is only someone who has views that are extreme from their point of view.
And then you have Biden continuing to make one clueless statement after another, raising the obvious question, if we have a police state in this country, who's running it?
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Guys, I'm delighted to welcome to the podcast, Jason Rance.
He is the host of the Jason Rance Show, which is an afternoon drive talk show on Western Washington's conservative talk station, KTTP. Welcome to my show!
What's your take on these Hamas attacks and Israel's necessary retaliation against them?
Yeah, so I don't really have a hot take in this.
I think, obviously, Hamas needs to be absolutely destroyed.
There's no way that you're going to be able to get to a place of peace with a terrorist organization that has been built to kill as many Jews as humanly possible.
For me, what I'm most disgusted by, as both an American and as a Jew, is the amount of anti-Semitism that I am seeing in this country over the course of the last week.
We have seen it on the streets.
We have seen radicals on the far left and, frankly, some on the far right who have stood up and started to take the side of Hamas, which is just so disturbing on so many levels.
These folks saw the killing and the raping and the kidnapping and they decided still to take to the streets in celebration because they think they understand something about the oppressor versus the oppressed.
It's disgusting.
The former Ambassador David Friedman, I just saw a post he did on social media where he said that there is antisemitism at the ends of the spectrum, left and right.
But he said that there is a key difference and that the antisemitism on the left is much more institutionally embedded.
It's much more mainstream.
It is fortified by a kind of Anticolonial ideology, which describes Israel as the settler country, the colonial power.
And for that reason, he says it's more dangerous.
Do you agree? Yeah, I generally agree with that.
I think one key difference is when folks on the right end up taking these horrific positions, they get called out.
They get called out immediately and loudly.
On the left, it's a little bit different, right?
They either embrace it or they completely ignore it.
Every once in a while, you'll get some folks who have some influence and power on the left condemning it, but for the most part, they're just going to completely ignore it, including when it comes from members of Congress like Rashida Talley.
Jason, you and I, I think, were concerned about Israel, but we're also very concerned about what's happening right here in America.
I'm about to release this film, Police State.
You have the book, What's Killing America?
Let's turn to the domestic situation in this country, and maybe the way to start is to ask this question.
I just saw that FBI Director Reyes.
The FBI is very concerned about potential Hamas attacks in the United States.
Now, he's been telling us for two years straight, That it's not Islamic terrorists that's a threat.
In fact, it's not foreign terrorists at all.
It is domestic extremists.
And by domestic extremists, he means people like the Heritage Foundation and, you know, Breitbart News.
I mean, this stuff is in their literature.
This is not something that I'm just insinuating.
So... Let's talk about the way in which things are so messed up in this country.
If you had to look at what's killing America and rank, you know, one, two, and three, what would be the top of your list?
Well, it's a long list.
It's a really long list, but I think obviously it starts with an ideology and then we can get into some of the issues because this is a radical left-wing ideology that is responsible for implementing policies and changing laws that impact every aspect of our daily lives.
We've obviously seen the crime crisis get out of control.
We've seen teen crime in particular surge.
Well, why is that? Well, we can tie it directly to policy, and that's what I do in the book.
I mean, there's something called restorative justice that is implemented all across the country, and I'm willing to bet that even in woke Seattle, I can ask people what that means, and they won't be able to tell me.
And these are people who've already bought into it.
On paper, restorative justice sounds really great.
Instead of putting someone in jail, the right kind of cases we're going to put into what is basically therapy.
We're going to get people from the community.
We're going to get religious leaders.
We're going to get folks from their family to really commit to spending time with this individual to keeping them on the right path.
Except it doesn't work for the majority of cases because they're putting people who are deeply violent in this.
It's one thing to say that a 16-year-old kid who steals a Butterfinger from 7-Eleven ends up going into restorative justice.
I think that that's a great idea. I don't want to put that 16-year-old in jail.
However, if that 16-year-old brings a gun and shoots the clerk, that person belongs in jail and they're making no difference.
They have no difference between those two cases.
So that's happening right now.
Harm reduction is another one of those policies that I can ask people about, and they would have no clue what it is I'm talking about.
Yet, when it is put on paper from the radical left, they'll say, oh, that sounds great.
This is how we're going to truly treat addicts.
Addiction is going to be treated by harm reduction policy.
That's great. Except harm reduction doesn't work.
There's no data to suggest that it actually works.
It's enabling the drug addict, and that's why we're seeing the increase in fatal overdose.
If we can't decode the language that the radicals on the left use, we're never going to be able to win these battles.
We'll be right back with Jason Rance, the author of What's Killing America, his website JasonRance.com.
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To fall back on. I'm back with Jason Rance, host of The Jason Rance Show in Western Washington, Washington State.
His website, JasonRance.com, the book we're talking about, What's Killing America.
Jason, I saw an interesting commentary the other day talking about the crime issue, and it distinguished between sort of liberal crime policies in, say, San Francisco versus liberal crime policies in, say, Chicago.
The point being that in San Francisco, you've got a kind of pervasive situation Sense of criminality, but it's low-level criminality.
In other words, it tends to be homeless guys who are zonked out, and they come and annoy you, and they take your food off your plate of a restaurant, and they build their encampments everywhere, so you've got to step over things.
But they're not, by and large, doing drive-by shootings in San Francisco.
By contrast, in Chicago, you have the fact that the crime is far more gang-banging type of crime, you know, a heavy death toll, but...
It's not all over the city.
It's concentrated in certain areas.
And so the progressive in Chicago can say, well, things are really bad over here, but you know what?
It's not really in my neighborhood.
They're not going to be shooting my car or shooting me up.
What's your take on these?
I mean, they're both bad. I actually don't want to be in either place, San Francisco or Chicago.
But talk about the...
Respond to this notion that the liberals are ruining the cities in two different ways.
Yeah, it's really interesting because I, as a radio host, I used to hear from people who said, I'm escaping Seattle.
I don't want to deal with the nonsense anymore.
And so they go out into the suburbs.
Some of them even go out into eastern Washington.
And then a couple of years later, they'll text me, oh, my God, it's here in my community.
It doesn't ever stay, especially when we're talking about the culture of lawlessness that left-wing policies have created.
That culture permeates and it starts to spread.
It may not be immediate, but I think actually San Francisco is a perfect example of how it spreads.
This used to be sort of a concentrated issue within San Francisco, and then it went citywide.
And, you know, granted the homicide rate in San Francisco or Seattle, for example, is nowhere near what it is in Chicago.
But for us in these cities, it's getting to Chicago-like levels because we're not used to seeing this kind of crime.
Seattle is on pace to hit the all-time record high number of homicides at 69.
Right now we're at 64.
So for us, going back to 1993 when it was at its highest, that's not something that we can accept.
In Chicago, they have a different bar.
I would argue the bar needs to be much higher as far as what we're willing to expect.
But the biggest problem is you've got these policies that end up spreading.
And it doesn't matter that in one particular area it starts with a ton of carjackings or just stolen vehicles.
When you do not punish the criminals, especially when they're younger, they just graduate to another level of crime.
And then before you know it, it actually is the homicides or the rapes or the serious assaults that you're now dealing with.
And my whole position with What's Killing America is if you can point specifically to policy or laws, that makes those crimes or any of the issues that I talk about in the book, they're avoidable.
And so we are choosing to go down a path in which we're allowing this lawlessness to continue.
I mean, speaking of choosing, Jason, a few months ago, Chicago elected a new mayor.
They had some choices.
Now, these were by and large Democrats, but as I understand it, there was a sort of more moderate Democrat, and then there was a left-wing Democrat.
And guess what? The left-wing Democrat gets the nod.
That's the guy who's in there now.
Last I saw, he was talking about creating a city-run grocery store because all the grocery stores are getting out of the city.
And my question is, You know, on the one hand, I do feel sorry for Chicago because I'm like, wow, what a way to take a great city and destroy it.
But on the other hand, I say to myself, why are these Democrats in places like New York, Chicago, why do they keep voting for this stuff?
And what's your answer? I think I share your feelings precisely.
Like, one part of me is I feel awful because you're going to see more needless deaths, you're going to see more needless suffering.
On the other hand, you get the government that you vote for, and this is the government that they deserve right now.
I think that when you look at the language issues, when you have control of the language, you have control of the debate.
Right now, the culture is in the hands of the radical left, particularly when it comes to the media.
They are shaping these debates and they're using certain kinds of language that will manipulate people.
You and I, and perhaps most of the people who are listening right now, we pay attention to the news all day almost.
You and I get paid to talk about the news and listen to everything and know what's going on.
But the average person, they have lives, they have families, they have jobs, and they're not paying as close attention to agreeing policies that are being passed in their name than they ought to.
But the problem is the way that it gets pitched to the folks, whether it's in Chicago or Atlanta, D.C., Seattle, Portland, wherever it is, the way that it's being pitched is very, very manipulative.
And that, I think, is kind of on us as conservatives or moderate Republicans or independents to step up and say, actually, here's what this debate is actually about.
You and I will never be, I doubt we'll ever be satisfied with anyone who gets elected to be mayor's office in Chicago or San Francisco, Portland, but what we can do is help people understand the issue so at least they're making the better choice.
Remember, they're almost always voting between two Democrats.
It's not a Republican and a Democrat.
We're never going to win those. But we can stop some of the damage that's being done by getting more engaged.
But that means we all have to understand what's truly at stake here.
And every once in a while, while I've sent out a tweet about what's killing America, people say the Biden administration or Democrat.
I wish it were that easy.
It's not that easy.
And an answer indicates that folks need to do a little bit deeper of a dive.
But the good news is, I've done it in what's killing America.
I mean, that's why this is an important subject and an important book is that I think you're quite right that this is a case where it's not enough to point the finger at people.
There is an underlying philosophy here.
And as you just mentioned, a pretty massive propaganda operation that doesn't You know, it doesn't call a spade a spade.
It doesn't say, this is what we're doing.
We're letting criminals out of jail.
It words this in a kind of soft way so people think, well, yeah, they're trying to improve the situation.
And not surprisingly, the situation continues to get worse.
Jason Rance, thanks for joining me.
The website, JasonRance.com, the book, What's Killing America?
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Feel the difference. We're in a new chapter now of Solzhenitsyn's The Gulag Archipelago.
The chapter is called The Interrogation.
So look at the way in which Solzhenitsyn has neatly divided a book that At least in its original form, stretched across two volumes, almost 1,800 pages.
So kind of a giant work with a level of detail.
So we're not going through all of it, but I'm working off of a very good abridged version that is itself not particularly short.
It's about 500 pages or 450 pages.
And I'm going to, as I go through it, be doing snapshots rather than...
Going through every chapter in detail.
But the opening chapters are just so good that I'm spending more time on them, and then I'll move more rapidly once I get past them.
So this chapter is called the interrogation, and of course the interrogation is what immediately follows the arrest.
So the previous chapter was the arrest.
Now we are in the interrogation.
And because Solzhenitsyn has this sort of florid and really beautiful literary style, I mean, it's impressive even in translation.
I'm doing a little more reading than I normally would, but I'm also doing summarizing along the way.
If the intellectuals in the plays of Chekhov, who spent all their time guessing what would happen in 20, 30, or 40 years had been told...
That in 40 years, interrogation by torture would be practiced in Russia.
That prisoners would have their skulls squeezed within iron rings.
That a human being would be lowered into an acid bath.
That they would be trussed up naked to be bitten by ants and bedbugs.
That a ramrod heated over a primus stove would be thrust up their anal canal.
That a man's genitals would be slowly crushed beneath the toe of a jackboot.
He goes...
Not one of Chekhov's plays would have gotten to its end because all the heroes would have gone off to insane asylums.
I mean, what a sentence. This is a sentence that's like 12 lines long.
It's the whole paragraph.
And basically what Solzhenitsyn is saying is that the police state, the Bolshevik police state, was unlike anything that came before.
Now let's remember that when Chekhov wrote in the early to the Well, some people would say it was a police state.
So, gee, from one police state to another, from the czarist police state to the Bolshevik police state, but Solzhenitsyn is challenging that.
He's saying, well, if it was a czarist police state, it was completely different.
It was obviously...
More benign. It might have been bad by the standards of the day, but even the people who lived then who were familiar with the Tsar.
The Tsar had a secret police.
People would sometimes be arrested.
They would be targeted, perhaps, for going against the Tsar.
You certainly weren't allowed to plot against the Tsar.
And intellectuals would talk about all the The way in which Russian society was getting more corrupt.
And Solzhenitsyn goes, maybe they would foresee 10, 20, 30, 40 years ago.
Things could get even worse.
But Solzhenitsyn goes, no.
Even they could never have foreseen how bad it would get.
Yes, not only Chekhov's heroes, but what normal Russian at the beginning of the century?
He means the 20th century.
Including any member of the Russian Social Democratic Workers' Party.
So here's Solzhenitsyn saying, you know what?
We had a left-wing party, the Social Democratic Workers Party.
This is, by the way, once the Tsar fell, there were a number of parties in Russia.
There was a provisional government, which was not Bolshevik, but it was the collapse of the Kerensky provisional government that led to the Bolsheviks coming into power.
So Solzhenitsyn is saying, let's look back.
Even the left-wing, at the time of the immediate collapse of the Tsar, None of them could have believed, would have tolerated what was to come.
What had been acceptable under Tsar Alexei Mikhailovich in the 17th century, what had already been regarded as barbarism under Peter the Great, what might have been used against 10 or 20 people in all during the time of Byron in the 18th century, century, what had already become totally impossible under Catherine the Great, was all being practiced during the flowering of the glorious 20th century, in a society based on socialist principles
and at a time when airplanes were flying and the radio and talking films had already appeared.
Not by one scoundrel alone in one secret place only, but by tens of thousands of specifically trained human beasts standing over millions of defenseless victims.
Again, after giving you a full paragraph in one sentence, normally in writing style you'd be like, okay I've done this absolute serpent of a sentence, now let me pull back and do a couple of short punchy sentences.
But no, in the Russian style, Solzhenitsyn goes, I've given him one big one, let's pull out another sentence.
Serpent of a sentence.
And this time, what he's hammering home is that, yeah, you know what?
Maybe at one time in the age of barbarism, a long, long time ago, there were czars that would pull out your fingernails and clip off your ears.
But he goes, but even under dictatorial czars, Peter the Great, Catherine the Great, these are people who were liberal in one way, in the sense that they would encourage art and painting and literature, but they did not have any tolerance for critics.
But nevertheless, he goes, they would regard what's going on now with an unconcealed horror.
They would never go for it.
And he goes, and besides, we're supposed to be in an age of progress.
Things are supposed to be getting better.
We've got movies, we've got airplanes, we've got all this sort of, all this talk about progress, but quite clearly, material progress and moral progress are not going together.
In fact, one could say the opposite, even though Russia is witnessing more material progress, not as much as the rest of the West.
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