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Oct. 25, 2022 - Dinesh D'Souza
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ANTI-DEMOCRATIC LEFT Dinesh D’Souza Podcast Ep442
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Coming up, I'm going to talk about the fact that the left keeps saying that we're against democracy when they simply mean we're not voting for their candidates.
I'll celebrate a big courtroom win for a Christian baker in California.
I'll also talk about how woke schools are trying to propagandize not just students, but even their parents.
An actor and producer, Robert Dobby, joins me.
We're going to talk about his film, My Son Hunter.
This is the Dinesh D'Souza Show.
The times are crazy, and a time of confusion, division, and lies.
We need a brave voice of reason, understanding, and truth.
This is the Dinesh D'Souza Podcast.
Will the real enemies of democracy please stand up?
Now, I say this because we keep seeing from various figures on the left, and also from the never-Trumpers, the idea that Republicans or the Republican Party today poses some kind of a grave threat to democracy.
I just saw this from Max Boot.
I call him Max Jack Boot.
But he goes, if the current trends hold up, Republicans are likely to take over at least the House and quite possibly the Senate, too, along with many state offices.
And then he says, this is how democracies die, both at home and abroad.
Now, think of the oddity of that statement, and apparently the irony of it is kind of missed by Max Boot.
He wants to protect democracy.
And what is he saying?
That democratically, Republicans are going to win the House.
In other words, they're going to win the House not because they took it over by some kind of military occupation or storm.
They're going to be elected by the people and take over the People's House, the House of Representatives.
And similarly, by winning in state by state by state, they're going to take over the Senate and many other state offices.
In other words, the democratic process itself is going to deliver to Republicans control of the legislative arm of the U.S. government.
And then, this is how democracies die.
So how can a democracy die by the very exercise of democracy?
Well, it turns out that this view of Max Boot is not unique to him.
We see it from Liz Cheney.
We see it from Bill Kristol and so many others.
Here is Liz Cheney.
She's basically talking about the fact that if Carrie Lake and Mark Fincham are elected in Arizona, this is like a blow against democracy.
We can't allow this to happen.
And she says that there is not much of a graver threat to democracy than these two people.
Well, again, how is this possible?
If a majority of Arizonans choose Carrie Lake over Katie Hobbs or Mark Fincham over his opponent, isn't that an expression of democracy?
Doesn't that reveal democracy working the way it's supposed to?
But no. What we have here is this idea.
That somehow, democracy is under attack.
Democracy is under attack in the very exercise of democracy.
In other words, democracy is delivering anti-democrats into positions of power, who presumably will...
At some future point, subvert democracy itself.
Now, Liz Cheney is one to talk because didn't democracy just deliver a harsh verdict on her?
Did her own constituents basically send her packing?
Didn't they say, we don't want you, we'd rather have somebody else?
So, apparently, what we have here is the view that's coming from the Democrats and from the never-Trumpers that a democratic outcome that they don't like Somehow means the democracy itself is endangered.
Another way to put it is that democracy is only secure if their candidates win.
Now, that alone is not only a contradictory, but a nonsensical view of democracy.
It's kind of like saying that the rules of tennis are only valid if I win.
If I win the tournament, if I lose the tournament, then obviously the rules of tennis are being rejected by the other side.
This is an attack on tennis itself.
No, it isn't. You lost the game.
So, what I'm saying here is that democracy is a set of procedures, a mechanism to allow people to express...
Majority will. And majority will is not unlimited.
It has to be constrained within constitutional limits.
But that is what democracy means.
And we are, after all, a constitutional democracy.
Some people say, well, I'd rather think of us as a republic instead of a democracy.
Well, we are a republic and we are a democracy under constitutional constraint.
We're not a democracy in the sense of ancient democracy.
And the founders were very clear about that.
But it seems to me the Democrats here are the ones who pose a real threat to democracy, not just because of what they do, 2000 Mule style, but also because they have now fallen into this fanatical and extreme rhetoric in which they consider people to be authoritarians for doing nothing more than beating them at the ballot box.
In other words, the public anger against Joe Biden and his minions for doing a horrible job, which is now redounding to the benefit of the Republicans, this is nothing more than the natural wave of the democratic process playing itself out.
It is customary for the party that is in power to lose seats in the midterm election.
If they do a bad job, they're likely to lose more seats.
This has happened many times before.
So what we're seeing in America, at least in terms of elections, is nothing particularly out of line, out of the ordinary.
But nevertheless, Democrats are using the rhetoric of anti-democracy to attack their political opponents who are doing nothing more than competing within democracy, making their case to the American people and evidently persuading them.
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I'd like to talk about the Christian baker who refused to bake a cake.
Because of a demand that it be a cake celebrating a gay wedding.
But it's not the baker you're thinking about.
You're thinking about the baker in Colorado.
What was his name, honey? Jack Phillips.
Jack Phillips is his name.
But I'm actually talking about a similar case in California involving a woman.
Her name is Kathy Miller, and she runs a bakery called Tastry's.
Tastry's Bakery in Bakersfield, California.
Now, she had been approached to design a custom cake for a wedding ceremony.
And this is actually Kathy Miller in 2017.
Quote, here at Tastries, we love everyone.
My husband and I are Christians.
We know God created everyone.
He created everyone equal.
So it's not like we don't like people of certain groups.
There's just certain things that violate my conscience.
So, by the way, her position very similar to the position of Jack Phillips in Colorado, but Kathy Miller gets sued by California's Department of Fair Housing and Employment.
This was under something called the Unruh Civil Rights Act of 1959, which prohibits discrimination on the basis of race, ethnicity, Now, pause for a moment, because here you have a civil rights law, which is basically supposed to protect people from being discriminated against on the basis of race, or ethnicity, or...
You guessed it, religion.
And what's going on here?
Kathy Miller is being discriminated against or being targeted, or in this case, it is being demanded of her that she go against her own religious beliefs and her own conscience and say something that she really doesn't want to say.
So, as far as I can see, this civil rights law doesn't deal with sexual orientation, doesn't deal with the gay issue at all, but it is invoked in the kind of way in which you start with the Civil Rights Act, it's about race, then other issues from gender to sexual orientation are sort of piggybacked onto it, which were not necessarily conceived in the original legislation.
Anyway, this goes before Judge Eric Bradshaw of the Superior Court of California.
And the judge rules on the side of Kathy Miller.
Basically says, no, she doesn't have to be forced to make a cake.
And now, what I find interesting is that the Thomas Lemore Society, which defended Kathy Miller in this case, said that when she was being subpoenaed, When she was having her deposition by the state of California, they tried to basically go into all this stuff about her religious beliefs.
They would say things like, well, you claim that homosexuality is against the rules as far as the Bible goes.
Do you follow the dietary laws of the Old Testament?
Do you believe in stoning like they did in the Old Testament and so on?
Now, obviously, first of all, there's a difference between the Old Testament and the New.
This is all part of Christian teaching and Christian history.
The intention here is not to really clarify Kathy Miller's view so much as to suggest that she is being selective and hypocritical in her views, that she sort of doesn't really believe.
Now, you might think, wait a second, didn't Jack Phillips in Colorado go before the Supreme Court?
Didn't he win his case?
Why are we even talking about this?
Well, turns out that the Supreme Court in the Jack Phillips case did not address the fundamental issue of whether or not A somebody can, in the name of religious conscience, not follow some sort of anti-discrimination law by saying, in a sense, that my First Amendment right trumps this state law or this local ordinance or this rule that is being put forward.
The Supreme Court sort of didn't decide the broader issue.
They simply decided the Philip's That particular case.
And that's the problem. When the court decides a single case and doesn't establish, if you will, a broader rule or precedent, then you get more cases that begin to look exactly like the earlier case.
And that seems to be what happened here.
Fortunately, the judge, I think, saw that the writing was on the wall as far as the Supreme Court is concerned.
And of course, this is a case where the First Amendment couldn't be more clear, which is to say that there is a protection, particularly a protection against the state.
Of the right of religious conscience.
And that is all that Kathy Miller in this case was trying to vindicate.
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But John Levine's article in the New York Post, very interesting because it focuses on woke indoctrination of private school parents.
So it turns out that these schools are nervous because sometimes when the parents find out what the kids are being taught in terms of indoctrination, the parents go, wait a minute, why are you doing this?
So the school is like, let's head that off at the pass by bringing the parents into the woke indoctrination system from the beginning.
Wow. So this is the tentacles of the school reaching beyond the school itself and trying basically to cajole, perhaps persuade, but in some cases intimidate and club parents into submission to the so-called diversity agenda.
John Levine's article focuses on five elite schools that are doing this.
Now at the Brearley School, which is an all-girls school on the Upper East Side of New York, parents have to sign a pledge to Basically saying they're committed to diversity.
And so once the daughters are accepted to the school, the school basically says, in order to sign up here, we need to have a buy-in to diversity and inclusion and so-called anti-racism, DEI. We need to have that from the student and the parents.
We're going to be having workshops all year for the students and the parents.
And everybody has to sign on to quote, identifying and eliminating policies, practices, and beliefs that uphold racial inequality in our community.
And they talk about quote, your family's responsibility to uphold these values.
By the way, Andrew Gutman, a former Brearley dad who pulled his daughter out of Brearley, said, listen, they are trying to completely stifle dissent.
Dissent not just among the students but also among their parents.
Quote, they want the parents indoctrinated the same way that they want their kids indoctrinated.
Now, at Grace Church High School, also in New York, I talked about this on the podcast some months ago, they're still pushing diversity, but it's not mandatory.
At the Spence Upper East Side All-Girls School, parents are, quote, invited to take part in these programs.
Courageous Conversation Equity Workshops.
They're put on by a group called the Pacific Educational Group, which is based in San Francisco.
You can only imagine the kind of garbage that is being promoted by this group.
Parents are invited to participate but not required.
Similarly, at the Chapin School, also on the Upper East Side, Chapin School is very clear that says that Well, they say that the process is optional for the parents, but according to one of the parents, quote, if you don't go, your child is not going to go very far in the admission process.
So in other words, they're like, well, you're invited to come to this, but then they are making it sound to the parents like this is a necessary part of becoming part of our community.
So if you don't show up, we're going to sort of take note of it.
This is really a way of Telling parents, using the leverage that these selective schools have, and many of these schools it's difficult to get into, it's a very selective process, so they essentially are using their leverage with the parents to make them come to these kinds of programs.
Look, the purpose of, well, in lower school, lower schools do indoctrinate kids.
Hopefully they're indoctrinating them in grammar and in basic math and basic principles of biology and science and so on, and not the kind of political indoctrination, but But as you get to the 9th, 10th, 11th, and 12th grade, this is where you begin to learn and should learn critical reasoning that's very important for college.
So isn't it terrible here that these schools are doing their best, at least on these key issues, to stifle critical reasoning, to suppress dissent, and it's extending to the point where we're not just going to sort of put a collar around the necks of the students, Who are, by the way, already dominated by the faculty and the administration, but if the students go and tell their parents what's going on, well, guess what?
We've indoctrinated the parents as well.
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Feel the difference. Unfortunately, the so-called woke movement has penetrated the scholarly journals of...
And this includes journals of science and social science where you study matters, but what the journals do now is they say that if you have the wrong views, particularly about race, about gender, sexual orientation, or even if you are studying topics that we consider to be, quote, taboo, We're going to block you.
We're going to not publish your article.
We're going to exclude this discussion from our journal.
We're going to make our journal activist in taking positions on issues, even though they are open questions as far as academic debate is concerned.
Now, it turns out That there is a further escalation by the National Institutes of Health, which is now withholding scholarly access to an important database.
This is a database that scientists use to study the relationship of things like race and health or ethnicity and economic success Or gender and performance in physics.
So in other words, this is a database that's been available to social scientists, particularly scientists who are studying The relationship between, on the one hand, race, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, and on the other hand, a whole set of outcomes, whether they be biological outcomes in the case of health.
So, for example, certain genetic groups may be more disposed, for example, to getting a particular kind of disease.
That's obviously been a longtime subject of study.
Obviously, there are differences between men and women in terms of biology and health, but not health only, but also things like Why is it that so few women become physicists?
Well, you want to look at databases to see, for example, how many women are physics majors, how many of them take an interest, how many of them express a desire to be a physicist, how many of them...
So all these sorts of questions can only be studied if you have access to data.
Well, it turns out we're hearing from James Lee, who's a behavioral geneticist at the University of Minnesota.
He says, quote,"...my colleagues at other universities and I have run into problems involving applications to study the relationships among intelligence, education, and health outcomes." It says that apparently the NIH, the National Institutes for Health, is clamping down on a broad range of attempts to explore the relationships between genetics and intelligence.
We're not even talking about racial differences, but just the relationship of genetics and intelligence.
In other words, to what degree is intelligence shaped by biological factors as opposed to, let's say, social and cultural factors.
So, the NIH apparently thinks that some of this research is, quote, stigmatizing.
But Professor Lee goes, wait a minute.
First of all, it's not stigmatizing.
We're studying general phenomena.
We're not applying it to particular individuals.
He goes, second, these databases were set up, by the way, at taxpayer expense, to create, to accumulate data that would then become an object of scholarly study.
That's why they were set up.
It says that scientists shouldn't have to justify research on the basis of either how it makes people feel or even to what degree it's beneficial to society.
Let's remember, these are researchers that are funded by universities.
They want to look into a subject.
And very often, you're allowed to study a problem whether or not it promises immediate practical benefits.
And finally, James Lee goes on to say, and this is the part that struck me, that the NIH has historically enjoyed a high level of trust From the academic community, he goes, that trust is now deteriorating.
And it struck me that under so many of our social institutions, the same thing is happening.
We're beginning to realize that these are not fair and neutral institutions.
They don't even fight for the values that they were set up to protect.
And so you have police agencies that don't fight for an equitable and fair application of the law, equal rights under the law.
You have judicial institutions that don't protect constitutional principles.
And here, evidently, you have health institutions, the National Institutes for Health, that doesn't really care about advancing debate and knowledge on health itself and is willing to subordinate that to political correctness.
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Guys, I'm really happy to welcome, well, a new guest of the podcast, somebody I've admired for a long time, Robert Davi, the director, the actor, the screenwriter, the producer. Also, I didn't know jazz vocalist.
He's known for his roles in The Goonies, License to Kill, Die Hard, Showgirls, and The Iceman.
And we're here to talk about Robert's new film, which is My Son Hunter.
Robert, welcome to the podcast.
Thanks for joining me.
Let me start by asking you, you've been around Hollywood a long time, and...
You know, when you think of the old Hollywood, it's the Hollywood, I guess, of Charlton Heston and Ronald Reagan.
I assume that even in that Hollywood, the politics tilted left, but there were prominent exceptions to the rule.
Am I right in that description?
I'm trying to sort of tell the story of what happened to Hollywood and how it pivoted so far to the left.
I think that would be another great documentary for you to do, Dinesh.
I mean, congratulations on all your work and thank you for having me.
It is a big story that really people don't know much about.
And if they did, I think it would frame the argument in terms of why Hollywood is so left.
Now, I got to Hollywood in 1977 because I did my first film with Frank Sinatra.
Now, as most people know, Sinatra, in the 40s, his mother was one of the biggest Democrat precinct people in Hoboken, in New Jersey.
And Sinatra was also, as many Hollywoods as Ronald Reagan was, a bleeding heart liberal.
And he was one of the first people to come against anti-Semitism and racial bigotry, Sinatra was.
And he was a friend of mine.
We had many conversations about our country and the way it was going.
Now, he then supported Ronald Reagan.
Now, this is the area you're talking about, the Charlton Heston, who I knew.
And back then, there was a...
You came out of the McCarthy era in the 1950s and the House on American Activities, which...
The Venona Project has shown that 99% of the people that McCarthy fingered as communists in our government and in the media were operatives.
The Communist Party put so much money into Hollywood it's not funny.
Reagan in 1946 crashed a meeting at Ida Lupino's house that William Holden took him to and said they're meeting, the operatives are meeting here to sway the Hollywood community and Reagan understood That what they were doing, the agitprop that they were using to sway the Hollywood elite, they were being used.
Useful idiots, that was one of those early terms.
It stayed with Hollywood, don't forget.
In the turn of the century Stanislavski, and this is an interesting, this is my own theory, but I studied with a woman named Stella Adler, who was one of the greatest acting teachers of all time.
Her family came from the Yiddish Theatre, from London to America, and put the classics into that.
She was a big Broadway star and taught Brando and De Niro and many, many stars.
Stanislavski was so infecting the Hollywood community in terms of its artistic Reinterpretation of what acting was from the melodramas of the turn of the century to now a realistic form of acting and the writing of Chekhov.
So everything Russia was doing at that time was being absorbed by the artists.
Their music, the literature, Eisenstein with his film.
This affecting educational and artistic Cultural, let's say, capturing of their imagination stayed with them, so much so that Erwin Piskator, who did agitprop in Germany in the 1800s, came to America in the 1940s and taught at the New School of Social Research.
He had a thing called Towards a Political Theater.
One of my big concerns, except for yourself and some others, is that the conservatives do not understand culture.
They're not adept at being able to convey a message that can be populist in a certain way.
Trump, we see, was the first one to kind of rile that up, and they label him whatever they label him.
But the Hollywood community back then, even, let's say, Johnny Carson, Johnny Carson could have a talk show just like Jimmy Kimmel and Jimmy Fallon and everyone else.
Now we have Greg Gutfeld, who's the king of late night, who's doing a whole different thing than what the Fallon and the Kimmels are doing in terms of...
But Johnny Carson would never do that.
Johnny Carson would have seen the homelessness, the crime rise in Los Angeles, and he would have spoken out against it.
And he would have had celebrities on that spoke out against it.
Today there is a muted...
It's the worst muted message I've ever seen come out of Hollywood in all those years.
So you had strong figures.
Now they want to demonize John Wayne and call him a racist because of the American Indians.
Things that he never did. They're planning stuff on him.
And it's insidious what's happened inside that community.
And it continues on.
And now you have the divisive herd mentality that Let's take a pause.
When we come back, I want to talk about what you said about conservatism and culture and look at your new film, My Son Hunter, as a way to begin a process of conservative recognition of the importance of culture.
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I'm back with actor and screenwriter, director, producer Robert Davi, the new film My Son Hunter.
By the way, the website MySonHunter.com.
MySonHunter.com.
Robert, you were saying in the last segment that one of the reasons that Hollywood kind of went so pro-Russian and maybe ultimately pro-Soviet is that there was a blurring of the line between artistic knowledge and political knowledge.
And you mentioned Eisenstein, whom, as I understand it, was sort of one of the founders of method acting.
Am I right in that?
In other words, the idea that you become the role.
Stanislavski was the founder of the method of method acting.
Eisenstein was one of the proponents of film theory and the montage sequence.
In the film Meistern Hunter, not many people pick it up, but I use a scene from Eisenstein's The Odessa Steps, where the revolution happened, to kind of make a wink to January 6th about the uh propaganda around january 6th and the disruption that that did uh but eisenstein was a very affecting filmmaker out of russia that then influenced many many filmmakers in america with his techniques very interesting as stanislavsky did with his acting and the acting with stanislavsky uh again along with the social message that's where the group theater came out of in the 1930s the group theater and i talked about erwin pescada the group theater Wow.
Let's talk about My Son Hunter.
This is a film, but it's not a documentary.
It is a feature film that's telling the Hunter Biden story.
Talk a little bit about how the project was conceived, how you made this film, and why.
Well, first off, the film was developed by the Unreported Story Society, Philip McAleer and Anne McEnany, and written by Brian Godzwa.
And they brought the script to me.
They saw a film I had directed called The Dukes.
That won several nine awards earlier and they asked me to direct it.
I then got involved in the script and I read Hunter Biden's autobiography.
Of course, they developed it around Peter Schweitzer and Miranda Devine and other people from The Post when they were exposing the story.
I got involved because I was frustrated, Dinesh, as most of us were, to see the first years of the Trump administration be dragged down into this Russian collusion and Putin the whole Adam Schiff, Nancy Pelosi that you call an insurrection you watch this go on any intelligent human being was watching this going on and you had to have a ferment of upsetness of rage inside you and then add that to now the Hunter Biden laptop Where the suppression of that story was so vehement,
it's criminal actually.
Rudy Giuliani himself told me when they came to his office to Get his information.
He said, hey, what about these two laptops right here?
And they go, well, what are those? He said, those are Hunter Biden's laptops.
And they said, oh, well, we don't want those.
So this this is like a middle finger to the media, the mainstream media, to all those publications that have denied this story up until recently now.
Where we find out the New York Times has come out and they perfunctory say, oh, this is what happened.
You know what I mean? It did happen.
And now they want to charge him on the absurdity of a gun permit and tax evasion or something to that effect when there's criminal behavior beyond that.
It's like stopping a thief and saying he has a taillight out in his car when he just ripped off a couple of billion dollars.
So this frustration, when it came to me, I wanted to direct this story to bring it to the American people.
And my blueprint was American Hustle by David O. Russell, about the abs scam, FBI sting, and also Wolf of Wall Street.
Those stories that were true and had edginess, but I wanted it to be entertaining.
I wanted it to be sexy.
I wanted it to be provocative and also informative and humorous.
Show the corruption that here we have the president's son at the time vice president's son making deals with the communist Chinese party with the Ukrainian Burisma Mafia and the Russian Mafia and a story that no one wanted to admit to nor tell.
Now is it really the Hunter Biden story or would you say it is the you know in other words I don't know.
Hunter's racket. It's really Joe Biden's racket.
And James Biden, Frank Biden, I mean, they were sent on bagman missions to Costa Rica and other places.
Does the film expose the breadth of the scandal, bringing in Joe Biden, who was very definitely in on it, wasn't he?
Oh, absolutely. I mean, there were tremendous scenes.
Joe Biden is played by a terrific actor called John James.
And Hunter is played by Lawrence Fox, great English actor who is part of the Reclaim Party in England right now and comes from a huge family dynasty.
And Gina Carano plays a Secret Service agent.
Yes, those aspects to it where Joe was involved.
It's called My Son Hunter.
It's not called Hunter. So you can now assume My Son Hunter, the smartest man I know, that Joe says.
And we use actual quotes and actual dialogue.
I even put in The moment where you speak about now, about the, let's say, like a Corleone family, there's a moment that was not in the script originally, but when I was researching, I saw that Devin Archer had texted Hunter Biden when he was being harassed.
And he texts Hunter and he says to him, what's going on?
Why is your people in your dad's administration coming after me?
Why are they trying to ruin my family, my kids, Hunter?
What's going on here, my kids?
And these Asians... They're getting in my head.
What do I say to them?
And then Hunter gives him a Michael Corleone kind of speech that basically says, you're part of a great family.
And all great families are put under pressure.
And what you have to do is maintain this course with perseverance and love.
Basically, he's telling them to shut up and not fold.
And so those aspects, and his uncle, we even talk about how It's a quick little thing, but John Kerry's son was involved with Hunter Biden and he withdrew from that organization.
And you have Bobulinski talking about all this stuff that everyone wants to ignore as well.
But yes, we do go into the breadth of the, let's say, the Biden alleged corruption and influence peddling.
It's told through, the story is told through the eyes of a 25 year old left-wing activist who is an exotic dancer to pay for her college education and she meets up with Hunter Biden and he takes her from the strip joint to the Chateau Marmot and the bodyguard that's put there is a,
I cast a Nigerian soccer player, great face, And he then is the one that helps her when she finds out that Hunter Biden is Joe Biden's son.
And she starts to look on the internet things about him and can't find anything.
And he says to her, you can't go to the mainstream media kitty.
You have to go to alternative search engines.
And she goes, what are you, a white supremacist?
He goes, yeah, I'm the black face of white supremacy.
Yeah, right.
This is great stuff. I'm really looking forward to seeing this film.
I've not seen it yet, but it sounds fantastic.
And I urge people to check it out.
MySonHunter.com is the website.
Robert Dobby, thank you very much for coming on the podcast.
Dinesh, thank you. God bless.
And thank you for the wonderful work you're doing, sir.
Thank you. We are at an interesting point in the Odyssey where Odysseus has returned home to Ithaca, but he has to figure out how he can make his way to the palace.
Before he does that, he is given shelter by one of his own loyal slaves, a swineherd, a guy who looks after pigs, named Eumaeus.
And here, Odysseus is asking Eumaeus to sort of tell him about his life.
And what he means is, tell me how you came to be a slave.
Now, this is sort of interesting because when we think about slavery in the United States, we think largely in racial terms.
We think, for example, about the white man going to Africa.
There's a slave trade.
Of course, there are black chieftains selling slaves from the African side.
But there's a racial line separating slaves and slave masters, and that has come to define modern slavery, at least in the United States.
But in ancient slavery, it wasn't like that.
And slaves were typically captives in war.
They were sometimes from very prosperous cities.
Slaves came from really all classes of society.
We know from the Iliad that after Troy fell, even the wife of Hector, Andromache, was taken away into slavery.
So here we have Eumaeus, who was apparently a slave from the time that he was a young boy.
And Odysseus says, tell me how it happened.
Now, Odysseus, in fact, knows how it happened, but we don't know.
And here is Homer in Eumaeus' voice telling us the story.
So, Eumaeus says, there's an island called Syria, and I live there.
And he says that in my father's house, there was a woman from Phoenicia, a Phoenician.
So, one day, he says, these Phoenician traders showed up in Syria, and they recognized that this woman...
Who was kind of, I guess, a concubine or a slave in Eumaeus' father's palace.
Eumaeus, in that sense, has royal lineage in Syria.
The Phoenicians strike up a conversation with this woman and they basically tell her, we need you to become a kind of spy for us.
We need you to inform us of what is going on inside of Syria so that at the right time we're going to be able to sack the place or sack the palace and take away captives as slaves.
And so this woman... She actually enters into a relationship, a sexual relationship, with one of the Phoenician captains, and she becomes an informant on Syria for the Phoenicians.
For a whole year, Eumaeus tells us, she seemed to say nothing.
She was very quiet in the palace, but she just kept relaying information to the Phoenicians.
And then one day, says Eumaeus, a man shows up.
He was a very cunning man.
He wore a golden necklace strung with amber beads.
The slave girls in the palace and my mother stared and began to finger it and ask him how much it cost.
He nodded to the woman in silence and then went back to the ship.
She took me by the hand and led me out.
There was the swift Phoenician ship.
And so what's going on here is that...
And you can see, because this was such a fateful moment in Eumaeus' life, he remembers every detail.
He remembers that this Phoenician sea captain who shows up at the palace, what he looks like, what he's wearing, the beads...
On his chest, the way in which the women were sort of intrigued by all this kind of display of color.
How much? Where do you get these beads?
How much do they cost? He doesn't answer, but he sort of does a wink-wink to the woman in the palace who is his informant.
And what does she do? She takes young Eumaeus, and little does he know that that's the last he's going to see of his father's palace.
Basically, he's off to be a slave, sold by the Phoenicians in some foreign town.
And then Eumaeus says that when the ship took off, by the way, the woman who's the informant, she boards the ship as well.
So she runs away from Syria.
But Eumaeus says that Artemis, in other words, the goddess Artemis, who is, by the way, the virgin goddess and particularly offended Artemis, But any kind of sexual malpractice or adultery.
It says, In other words, she comes to a bad end because of her treachery and her adultery.
And Odysseus is very sympathetic.
He goes, I'm very sorry to hear about this story.
And Odysseus goes on to tell Eumea his own story.
Now, it's not his own story.
Odysseus is actually making it up.
But he's making it up out of necessity.
He doesn't want to reveal at this point who he is.
And so Eumaeus extends to Odysseus all kinds of hospitality, including divulging to Odysseus his own story.
And as we move into Book 16, we now have Telemachus returning from Sparta, the reunion of Odysseus and his son Telemachus, and then the plot hatched by Odysseus for how to overthrow the suitors, get rid of them, and reestablish his control of his household, his palace, and his country.
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