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Aug. 24, 2022 - Doug Collins Podcast
34:43
The Battle turns to the States: Will the Pro-Life Movement Step Up
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You want to listen to a podcast?
By who?
Georgia GOP Congressman Doug Collins.
How is it?
The greatest thing I have ever heard in my whole life.
I could not believe my ears.
This house, wherever the rules are disregarded, chaos and mob rule.
It has been said today, where is bravery?
I'll tell you where bravery is found and courage is found.
It's found in this minority who has lived through the last year of nothing but rules being broken, people being put down, questions not being answered, and this majority say, be damned with anything else.
We're going to impeach and do whatever we want to do.
Why?
Because we won an election.
I guarantee you, one day you'll be back in the minority and it ain't gonna be that fun.
Hey everybody, it's Doug Collins.
Welcome back to the Doug Collins Podcast.
We've talked a lot about really the Supreme Court decisions coming out in June.
Just an amazing look at what this court did when the court actually started looking back at the Constitution and started actually applying law and not theory.
And I think that's been an amazing thing.
But nothing has caused more than the abortion decisions.
Nothing caused more than the Mississippi decision that overturned Roe, overturned Casey, really put it back to the states where it belonged all the time.
And there's a lot of things going to be going on in the states, have already been going on in the states, and will continue to be going on in the states.
And so I'm excited today to take that up a little bit further with Dr. John Segoe from the Texas Right to Life.
A lot going on that I want to get to.
But John, thanks for being a part of the Doug Collins podcast today.
Absolutely.
Thanks for having me.
Alright, let's go back.
Let's reverse the clock.
Let's go back when we were in April of this year.
Roe was still in effect.
Casey's still in effect.
Texas had passed some legislation.
Georgia had passed legislation.
All of it were being held up, you know, for the most part, waiting on this top decision, waiting on this decision out of Mississippi.
And now it's happened.
And the decision that many of us, you know, from a legal standpoint, if we ever thought we could get a court that would actually look at it on a legal basis, Roe was going to be overturned.
It never had the legal standing to stay where it was.
Texas had already taken a step.
What do you see now?
Did you expect the churn that we've seen now in the last basically 45 to 50 days, especially from the pro-abortion crowd?
Sort of give me your lay of the land.
Going for four or five months now, we went from a Roe Casey world to now we're in a new situation.
Talk to me about what y'all are doing and sort of where you just see the platform right now.
Yeah, no, you're absolutely right.
The last couple of months have been wild.
We've seen the left absolutely go promote lawlessness.
For 40 years, we have the left telling us that Roe is the law of the land, and we should just sit down, shut up, and get used to it.
This is the law of the land.
We should follow the court.
We've heard that over and over again.
And now all of a sudden they're completely reversing on that and saying, no, no, even though the court has ruled in your favor, we get to ignore it.
We get to break the law.
We get to promote lawlessness.
And so I think we've really seen the true colors of our opponents in this is that they didn't care about the law.
They didn't care about the Supreme Court.
They only cared about abortion.
They only cared about selling elective abortions to women.
And it's really exposing the depth of how evil this is.
And so what we're doing in Texas is, how do we respond to all this lawlessness?
The landscape has changed now that Roe v.
Wade has been overturned, but we still have some significant challenges from lawless district attorneys not going to enforce the law, To international companies mailing abortion drugs into our border.
We even have a ship, the abortion ship, saying they're going to come into the Gulf Coast and promote, you know, come out into the abortion ship to get your elective abortion, which is an international water.
So we're seeing a new level of creativity to promote death.
And in Texas, we're looking at how do we face these new challenges.
Well, and I think one of the things we've got to look at there, John, is also this, and you sort of hit on it there, sort of the elective part of this nature.
And I think that is something that is, you know, most people think of it and the pro-abortion groups want to just portray it as this, you know, medical emergency and everything else.
But a lot of these is simply abortion has become, over time, in many ways a contraception.
It's not in the terms that many times the pro-abortion, Planned Parenthood, others want to take it as.
And with that, I think that's what turned a lot of people, whether it be the medical technology of ultrasound and others that realize this was a baby, not just a blob of cells.
This has turned the tide.
But what we're seeing now is the left is really, as you just stated a little bit, has really gotten fired up about this.
Seeing it, I want to get your quick political take.
The Democrats believe this will turn the election in November.
I have a different opinion.
I think it could motivate some who may not.
But at the end of the day, a lot of people have made their mind up about abortion as far as it being a mover.
What are you seeing in Texas?
Are you concerned in some of the more suburban districts, those kind of things, that this would be a factor in some of the elections?
What are y'all hearing right now?
Yeah, so I think you're right.
I do think that nobody's mind is really being changed about abortion.
I think the threat is that we're seeing the left completely create their own facts.
They're completely misrepresenting what pro-life laws are and what they do.
And so unfortunately, if we're having an honest conversation about elective abortion, You and I, you know, we can talk to our voters and our voters would agree that elective abortion is wrong.
The polling data shows that when you dig into the details, most voters agree with you and me that we should ban elective abortions.
And, you know, most voters say maybe not all abortions, but most abortions.
And so, you know, whenever we have that conversation, you and I win.
The pro-life side wins.
But what I'm worried about is the twisting of the facts, is the twisting of the narrative and misrepresenting the law.
And for example, saying that miscarriages are now somehow going to be affected by pro-life laws, that we're stopping doctors from being able to treat a woman who's already experienced the tragic and dangerous The situation of a miscarriage.
That is not in our pro-life laws.
Texas laws actually are very clear that these laws do not affect a doctor's ability to serve a woman who's experienced a miscarriage or to respond to something as terrible and tragic as an ectopic pregnancy.
Our laws explicitly state that, but that has not stopped the pro-abortion industry from Completely misrepresenting our laws and the effect.
And that is something that our side needs to be prudent about and we got to be vigilant on or else I think that could hurt us.
We have to make sure that we're very clear about what's actually going on in these pro-life states and what our laws do and don't do.
Right.
Well, in Georgia here, we're, of course, have a very tight Senate race.
We have a very tight governor's race going on.
I think Republicans will prevail in both of those.
But, I mean, right now, Brian Kemp, the governor of Georgia, is under a lot of ad pressure, you know, from the pro-abortion groups.
And they're bringing out this issue of miscarriage.
They're bringing out this, you know, prosecuting women, which it doesn't match the law.
But I am concerned.
I'm not seeing...
And I said this, John, I'll be honest with you.
I said this after the decision.
Now it's on the right-to-life groups who have always been pushing for this.
Now is the time to...
They're going to have to move it to the state legislatures and not to give in on the past positions.
But I'm not seeing the concerted response.
And I've been in Texas a little bit.
I saw a little bit of those ads as well.
I've been in Georgia.
I'm not seeing the pro-life community come out I thought we might see some of the groups ranging from National Right to Life.
I think State Right to Life are probably doing a little bit better than National, but they don't have the funding.
But Susan B. Anthony and others, are you hopeful that you'll see these groups start kicking in, really, and I hate to use the term, but a bit of a crass political term, air cover, for states and governors and legislatures who are now going to be in the midst of this?
Yeah, absolutely.
I think that there is a big responsibility for pro-life groups now to amp up.
And as we get into this election season, wherever you start to see the real heavy pushes, you're going to start seeing more messaging.
You're going to see clarification on what our laws actually do.
But you're also going to see a bigger pro-life message of groups like ours highlighting that we're not You know, who the pro-abortion groups are trying to make us out to be.
That we actually have been serving women for decades, and we're going to continue to do that.
that these pro-life groups actually promote life-affirming services, whether it's medical or social through pregnancy centers and social services.
So you are going to see that, you know, we're going to have to break some of these myths that the media and the left is trying to put out there about what it means to be pro-life.
They're going to try to paint us in the worst light, but we have a responsibility to show, no, these elected officials that worked to ban abortions, they also worked to dedicate a hundred million dollars to women's social services, specifically for these populations to help these women overcome the barriers that they specifically for these populations to help these women overcome the barriers that they see whenever they're We have Republicans that are working on CPS reform, that are working on adoption reform.
They're doing great things, but they've been painted as these villains who are just trying to take away rights and trying to hurt women.
And it really is incumbent on us as the pro-life groups to say, hey, we had this historical achievement.
Like you said, now we have to continue to message, continue to educate on what being pro-life really means.
And it's more than just banning abortion.
Yeah, I was really concerned, John.
I mean, this needs to be back in the States.
I've always been, that's the States issue that needs to be there.
I'm very concerned on some of the stuff that I've heard from some of the national groups about, and some Republicans, frankly, in Congress wanting to work on a national, and they were looking at a 15-week or a Dobbs kind of, and I'm And I'll be frank, I'm against that.
I mean, go to the states because these same pro-life groups that have been saying we want to ban abortion, we want to get rid of abortion, I don't, I mean, it would be a me, frankly, a little bit of a betrayal to then go and work with Democrats and Republicans on Capitol Hill to do and institute a nationwide 15-week ban or anything else.
I just have a problem with that.
I'm hearing some of that.
What are you hearing?
Yeah, we're hearing a little bit about that.
I mean, the reality is, this is going to be basically a state by state fight.
And we have pro-life congressmen who are going to try to continue that they're going to have to play defense to keep the ridiculous legislation we're seeing from the Democrats.
I mean, the, you know, the, The bill that was kind of titled as Protecting Women.
It was the most extreme piece of legislation we've ever seen passed one of the chambers in our country's history on this topic.
I mean, it was really phenomenal.
It would have actually taken away some of the victories we had, even like the partial birth abortion ban, which was upheld by the Supreme Court.
So they have to play defense.
Our pro-life congressmen and senators have to play defense in D.C., But they're going to keep trying to highlight where are areas that most Americans do agree with.
And so that's why you're seeing them talk about the 15-week.
But you and I know how Congress work, and especially on a big issue like this.
We're not going to hold our breath for any big developments on that front, but we are going to work on each state.
And at a pro-life state level for Texas, we're looking at what we're going to do to promote life, to build a pro-life Texas in addition to these Law enforcement issues I mentioned earlier with district attorneys.
But also, pro-life states need to help out our purple states.
I'm right next door to New Mexico, and New Mexico doesn't have the political environment that we do.
But a lot of our abortion providers are actually moving across the border and setting up shop right over the border into New Mexico.
And it is incumbent on pro-life Texans to help our neighbors and help them make political gains, make them legislative gains and make sure that we're promoting, you know, helping out in all of those 50 battlefronts you were just talking about.
That's really important.
And so pro-life movement needs to identify where are the states in jeopardy?
You know, yeah, we're not going to make much progress in some of the states like New York or California.
But there's a lot of other states that we can work together to make substantial progress at this state-by-state level.
It is amazing, because I believe that actually the reproductive center, the abortion center in Mississippi that was actually the part of this case, did relocate to New Mexico, is what I heard in that process.
Let's switch gears a little bit.
I want to get back to Texas in a minute, but there's...
I have been around the pro-life movement for 30 plus years, okay, as a pastor, as a chaplain, but is also just as someone, you know, in Congress and state legislatures that worked on ultrasound bills in Georgia, worked on a lot of things, fetal pain bill in Georgia, and then had to fight a lot of stuff in Congress with the Democrats.
But The most amazing thing I've been around is over the years, I've been to many crisis pregnancy centers, many are standalone, many some are promoted by churches, others who give women options, who help them through this process.
I'm not amazed because I've seen the pro...
Frankly, it's just a killing industry, so it didn't surprise me a whole lot.
But the attack by Elizabeth Warren and many on the crisis pregnancy center...
That was a level of stooping.
I didn't know they'd get to the bottom and start digging.
How are you seeing that?
These are moms and grandmoms and doctors who are doing it.
They do it by donation, and yet they're being told that they're telling lies?
Because it's a baby?
Come on.
You're absolutely right.
That is one of the most profound developments in the last couple of years is the tax on pregnancy centers.
For years, we were accused of not supporting women, not doing anything to help women.
And now we have a massive movement across the country Of these nonprofits, you know, usually they're mom and pop shops and or, you know, started by a ministry out of a church.
And they want to sit there and do counseling and do, you know, jobs training and walk with women who are facing unexpected or difficult pregnancies.
And now they've become public enemy number one.
Now, with Texas Right to Life, we're a political group.
We get bomb threats.
I understand that, the attack on us.
Sometimes we're the big bad guys that go into races or go into the legislature.
They attack us.
I understand that.
But attacking these nonprofits that are literally there, you know, here like in Austin, for example, You have a pregnancy center right off the campus of University of Texas, one of our biggest universities in the state.
The pregnancy center there is meeting with college students who have life-changing news, helping them choose life, helping them move past these barriers.
And they're the ones that are getting vandalized, that center.
And so it is Unimaginable what the thinking is here is we don't want women to have access to supportive, loving, accepting social services like at these pregnancy centers.
Here in Texas, our state Democratic Party actually put in their platform that their goal is to defund pregnancy centers.
And there is some state funding of these pregnancy centers I mentioned.
But like you said, the majority of the pregnancy centers in Texas are privately funded.
So are we going to go after them somehow?
Even though they're just non-profits trying to serve their community, it is wild that that's where we are in this fight, is that just because you're pro-life, that we're going to villainize you for helping women.
You're absolutely right.
When I dealt with, in D.C., I dealt with a couple of things, and people can go to my YouTube channel and see my position on this, my social media.
I gave a speech in discussing just the complete, utter...
I think it was with Sweden and others who said that they had done away with Down syndrome.
The way they did that said that they had done away with Down syndrome is everyone who tested positive for Down syndrome, they aborted, they killed the baby.
That's not doing away with Down syndrome.
That's killing the child in the womb.
Let's just be frank about this.
And so the lies that come out of that don't surprise me.
That one, though, I have to admit, as many of these little pregnancy centers as I went into, Many of them literally they're by love.
I mean, literally.
They just barely sit.
They give diapers.
They help.
And to call them the enemy?
I mean, you have to have a sick, twisted point of view to say they're the enemy.
I'm sorry.
You may be pro-abortion all you want, but these folks are trying to help life.
And to say that by, quote, lying...
I mean, when you've got State of New York going after Google for Google Maps showing where these...
Really, are you that...
Enhanced with death?
That's what you're looking for?
I mean, I don't get it.
Well, it really shows that it's not choice, right?
Because that's choice.
If women, after going to that pregnancy center, still think it's their best interest to travel to New Mexico or to travel to Colorado to get an abortion, That is still a possibility.
And so just having a meeting with that pregnancy center is the threat to them.
That really shows that they're not in favor of truth.
They're not in favor of the woman seeing all of her options and seeing the reality of her situation.
They're in favor of selling elective abortions, and that's really what this comes down to.
If you ever had any doubt, you could come back to 2007 back here in Georgia, and I was in 2008, and I was in the first way out of elected legislature, and I was signed on with a bill and helped push us, what we call the sonogram bill.
An ultrasound bill.
And in Georgia, what was happening was, is they were doing, the abortion doctors were doing ultrasounds before they did the abortions.
Because, frankly, from a malpractice standpoint, they were having to make sure where this was at, where the baby was at, and everything else.
What they would do, though, is they would do the ultrasounds, or have the technician do the ultrasound, and they would keep the monitor in another room.
Or turn it to where the patient couldn't see it.
So what we said was, is look, All we're saying in this law and we passed this law was that if you do an ultrasound, you have to offer to let the patient see it.
The amount of just criticism, oh, that's terrible.
No, what they didn't want them to see was the baby in the womb.
That's what they didn't want them to see.
So this transparency choice issue, that's hogwash.
It's just not there.
Moving on a little bit in this debate as we go forward, I love what you said earlier because I think this is where pro-life, we have been open, and I'll just say this fairly, we've been open to criticism Because of the emphasis on pre-born and not all life.
And I think from a faith standpoint, that can never be true.
When you talked about abortion, foster care, these kind of issues, because these will, I mean, let's just be frank, foster care and others will increase in this environment.
Life will be life, and that's a good thing.
But it will require different personalities from not only a community response, but a government response.
How are you seeing that?
Are we going to be able to turn the pro-life community, especially in states where abortion will be either not available or very rare, to these same organizations now turning to where these adoptions, foster care is going to be something emphasized, the new pro-life movement in such a way?
Yeah, you're absolutely right.
This is kind of like a new chapter.
We're turning the page into a new chapter.
And we have to be prepared to build a community, to build a state that can adapt.
And here in Texas, you're talking about more than 50,000 abortions each year.
This is before our Heartbeat Act.
So two years ago, we were looking at Around 50,000 abortions each year.
Well, now that abortion is illegal in Texas, yes, some of those women are going to go across the border.
Some of those women are going to order illegal drugs off the internet.
But the mass majority is going to be these that are no longer going to seek an abortion and their children are going to live.
And that's something to celebrate.
But it also is a huge responsibility of how do we serve these families?
How do we help these women overcome barriers?
And so we're looking at areas where women are saying they see barriers.
So they see it in housing.
They see it in their education being interrupted.
They see it in a career being disadvantaged in their career.
And so here at Texas Right to Life, we're talking to elected officials of how can we remove those barriers so that women can succeed, right?
And so one example is we're looking at how do we treat pregnant college students?
If that college student is in the middle of her education, she does get pregnant, and then she chooses life, something that the pro-life movement wants her to do.
She chooses life.
She doesn't choose to go across the state to another state.
She chooses life, but now she's going to be penalized for it by losing her scholarship if she takes a semester off or no longer having on-campus housing opportunities.
The reason she was able to seek that education in the first place, she's lost all of that.
So now this is hurting her and she chose life.
So as a state, we can make sure that she's not penalized for doing the right thing.
So making sure that if she takes two semesters off, she's not going to lose her scholarship, that she has the benefits that she had when she first got there, like on campus housing, making sure that she knows the support that she has in the community with things like child care and housing.
So these are areas we're looking at in Texas and our legislative session starts in January.
We're going to put out a package that we call the Building the Pro-Life Texas Agenda.
And it's going to address these types of areas to, like you said, rise to the occasion that we're going to be there for these families and not just to protect that preborn child, but to really make sure that that woman and her family can flourish.
It's a tall order.
It's a big vision, but we're working with some great pro-life leaders to make progress in that direction.
Well, I think that's one of the things you're going to have to look at as you go forward in this, you know, from conception to natural death.
I mean, it's life.
I mean, from a faith perspective, I mean, I'm a minister, I'm a chaplain in the Air Force.
I've been there.
I mean, I can't look at anyone and that's why I deal with criminal justice for them.
That's why I deal in life.
Everybody's life is important and they have, you know, second chances and we all go through difficulties and we all need somebody to help us in that process.
Before I get go, though, one of the things, Texas has been, the law that you have there has been demonized many times.
It's been disgusting.
What would you say would be the one, if you could talk to, because you're talking to a national audience here, what's the one thing about the law that has been mischaracterized the most?
So whenever we passed our law last session, the Heartbeat Act, they had an enforcement mechanism for citizens to sue the abortion industry if they broke the law.
That was the most controversial piece of that law.
But we do this in public policy all the time.
The left does it with environmental regulations that if you want to sue the factory down the street, you can and say that they're hurting the environment.
We do it with Medicaid fraud.
If you have evidence that your doctor is frauding the government, you can go and take them to court yourself.
The reason we use those, allowing citizens to sue someone breaking the law, is because it's a public interest.
It's a public good.
And that's what life is.
Us, the state of Texas, protecting pre-born children from violent murder.
That is a public good.
Whenever we devalue any life, it devalues all of our lives.
And as you were mentioning, we have a whole life ethic.
We think that terminally ill patient in the hospital is just as valuable as you and me and just as valuable as the preborn child.
And so protecting life, making sure that no one is committing illegal abortions in Texas, that is a responsibility of all Texans and not just our district attorneys or our attorney general.
And so that is why we put that piece in there, that citizens, if you have evidence in Texas that someone is breaking one of our pro-life laws, our Texas Heartbeat Act, you can take them to court.
That's not vigilantism.
That's not snooping on your neighbors.
You can go after an industry that is hurting Yeah.
And I think that, you know, again, as you go forward, I think it goes back to the fact of life, you know, encompasses life.
One of the things that was, you know, the many early voices in the pro-life movement would say that, you know, by doing what we're doing, especially through Roe and through Sandy, you were devaluing life.
And they would say, you know, they give the warning admonition about euthanasia and others that this would become here.
And everybody laughed at it.
Now they don't because it did open that door because, again, it's a valuing of life and it's a whole thing we could talk about for a long period of time.
But I think this is getting back to the discussion on a state level and dealing with it in states that, again, we're going to have a mixed bag.
We were headed there in the 70s.
This was put off 50 years because of an activist court that listened to the argument and made it up.
And again, if you're listening to Doug Collins podcast today and you believe you're pro-abortionist and you aren't, the thing you can't argue with me about is that Roe was not based on law.
It was based on a theory.
And I have a hard time with all these folks out there who say a constitutional right was taken from us.
No, a court-given right was taken from you, not a constitutional right, a court-given right.
And I think that's the part that we're seeing.
In states, though, you're going to need help.
And across the country, and I know you've got Right to Life chapters in every state.
You've got other pro-life chapters that may not be a Right to Life, but it is a state that is affiliated with Right to Life.
In Texas and other places, how do people get involved now?
Because now is the time.
If you've been pro-life, now is the time to look at this.
How do we get involved?
And from your perspective, what is the next steps here?
Yeah, so at Texas Right to Life, we're a Christian organization.
So the first thing I encourage your audience is pray for the movement.
Pray for our churches.
Pray for our leaders that we will rise to the occasion.
This is a historical moment.
And it is going to take divine providence.
It's going to take divine prudence to help us make the right decisions of what do we focus on?
Where do we go?
And we are at Texas Right to Life, we are working on putting an agenda together to fill some of those enforcement holes, like those district attorneys that are ignoring the law and saying they're not going to prosecute those that violate our law.
So we've got to do some law enforcement policies, but also we've got to do some positive building a pro-life Texas policy like we were talking about.
And so we have some legislative work.
There are also, as you mentioned, other areas where life is being threatened and we need legislation to protect vulnerable patients in our hospitals, protect other populations that are victimized.
And so we need to work legislatively, continue to do that.
But also, as we touched on with this miscarriage myth, we really have to work on messaging, whether it's around the election or just explaining our pro-life principles in general.
We have to be better at explaining why we're pro-life, What it means to be pro-life and what that means for these difficult circumstances like miscarriage, ectopic pregnancy.
And so that cultural conversation, talking to your neighbor, talking to your friends on social media, having those hard conversations in church, that has to continue.
And that actually has to amp up now more than ever because this conversation has already started.
And you know that your neighbor, the person sitting in the pew next to you, they're hearing the left's talking points.
They're seeing it on social media.
They're seeing it on traditional media.
It is up to us to make sure that we're very clear of why we want to protect life and what that means, even in these hard cases.
That is it.
Folks, we've been talking with Dr. John Sego from the Texas Right to Life.
A great conversation on what's going on at the state level and also just in general what we're seeing across the country.
John, thanks for being with me today on the podcast explaining this and we're going to hopefully get this out to a lot of folks so they'll understand the myths and the truths and then how they can actually participate.
And I think what you talked about, number one is prayer.
Number two, prayer.
Partner with your church.
Maybe partner with these, if you can, with your local crisis pregnancy center, giving time, money, or resources.
For those out there who may be looking at adoption, now is going to be a great time.
I think one of the things, John, it really needs to change, and it doesn't need to change from a safety perspective, but why is it, and I've just asked this open and general question, why is it easier for folks to go overseas to adopt a child than it is here in the United States?
And I'll be honest, I've been in the legislation, nobody wants to touch the adoption procedures here in the United States.
And that's going to be an interesting run.
I mean, we may have to come back and talk about that at another time, but that's a legislative agenda item, because I talk to people all the time, being in law, and some of my partners do some of this kind of work.
You know, it's expensive and it's hard to adopt.
And yet, again, going overseas, a lot of folks have gone overseas to adopt.
And it's not that the children overseas are less valuable or more.
It's just that the rules and laws are different.
I think those laws were set up, you know, frankly, in making it difficult that would lead to other things.
But I think that's another area.
But folks, Text Right to Life is doing this.
All across the country is doing it.
Go to the Doug Collins podcast.
Download this episode.
Share it.
If you have any questions, use the email button.
We'll be happy to answer emails or get you in contact with Dr. Sego as we go through this.
But this is a big issue.
It's election season, but it's also just a matter of life.
God created life, and it is for each one of us to never look down on that life.
And I thank you for your work you're doing.
Thanks, John, for being a part of the Doug Collins podcast today.
Yeah, absolutely.
Thanks for the invitation.
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