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Aug. 22, 2022 - Doug Collins Podcast
36:28
How do we help small businesses under this administration
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You want to listen to a podcast?
By who?
Georgia GOP Congressman Doug Collins.
How is it?
The greatest thing I have ever heard in my whole life.
I could not believe my ears.
This house, wherever the rules are disregarded, chaos and mob rule.
It has been said today, where is bravery?
I'll tell you where bravery is found and courage is found.
It's found in this minority who has lived through the last year of nothing but rules being broken, people being put down, questions not being answered, and this majority say, be damned with anything else.
We're going to impeach and do whatever we want to do.
Why?
Because we won an election.
I guarantee you, one day you'll be back in the minority and it ain't gonna be that fun.
Hey everybody, it's Doug Collins.
Welcome back to the podcast today.
You know, the driving force of America is our small business.
And it's everything from our mom and pops, you know, and we have the course that always gets the big productions, always our mega corporations and others.
But it's that everyday Main Street that people are affected by.
That's where most people's jobs are.
Most of the companies are less than 100 employees.
Most of the companies are actually less than that.
and Congress has a small business committee, which actually focuses on this.
And today, I am really happy to have a good friend of mine.
I served with him.
He is a congressman from Missouri.
He's the ranking member of the small business committee, Blaine Lukemeyer, who's with me today.
We're going to just talk business, talk some things that are going on in our country, especially with the Biden administration, and then hopefully some things that the Republicans can do by retaking the House as we get into November.
Blaine, thanks for being a part of the Doug Connors podcast today.
Always a pleasure, Doug.
Great to be with you again.
You were one of our shining stars when you were in Congress, and I'm sure that all the things and endeavors you're engaging right now are going to be very good for you as well.
So it's an honor to be with you again.
Thank you so much for the invitation.
Well, I'm glad to have you.
First off, I mean, one of the things, Blaine, I've tried to do with this podcast is sort of curl back a little bit of what goes on in Congress.
Because, you know, when you're there, you just sort of assume and you get in that Washington bubble.
Everybody just thinks that they know what is happening.
Tell people what the Small Business Committee does and how it operates.
That's a great question.
You know, it has a fairly small jurisdiction because we only oversee the Small Business Administration, but we have a very large purview because anything that can happen to a small business with regards to taxes, rules and regulations, energy, transportation, all of these things can affect small businesses.
It can affect the ability of businesses to exist or affect their profitability.
So all these things are things that we can have jurisdiction over from the standpoint of having hearings on.
Obviously, as you well know, if we do something with taxes, it goes to Ways and Means, it has some energy, it goes to Energy and Commerce.
But those are all issues we can discuss in our committee and have some initiatives that we can put together to actually solve problems for small business.
So we have a very large purview over which we can actually do a lot of stuff and may be very helpful for small businesses.
Speaking with that, and hitting it, everybody talks about business, and there's all this discussion in the media when it comes to business and the impact of, as you said, taxes and regulations.
The reality is that most of the jobs in this country are put forward by truly what we'll say small business, not necessarily the mom and pop, but those hundred and under businesses.
What you've seen in your time on small business and working with, those businesses, although not the giant corporations, they're the ones that are directly most affected by regulatory issues and tax issues and things like that.
Because a lot of them are, you know, how they're set up, they're mainly pass-through organizations from a tax perspective.
Have you seen this administration and some of the problems that we've seen in the last couple of years affect those kind of things that maybe most people don't really realize?
Well, that's a great question.
Over two-thirds of the new jobs that are created are created by small businesses, and that definition is 500 employees or less.
But as you said, actually, I think almost 90% of them are 20 employees or less.
The resulting jobs, almost half of the jobs in this country are held by those same small businesses.
So over 99% of all the businesses in this country are small businesses.
But yeah, every day, every hearing, we go over and talk about the effects of taxes, and especially now with the proposal by the Democrats on this new tax bill that they're trying to put together, increasing the death tax.
They did have a 3.8% tax on small businesses.
It was in the original thought process.
The original thought document, I think it's out of there now.
But as you say, most small businesses are S-corps, which are pass-throughs, although I think there's right out of a million small businesses, 750 to a million small businesses that are C-corps.
So any type of tax that you put on a small business, and you know this, Doug.
The businesses don't pay taxes.
They pass those costs on to consumers, which means there's an increased cost to consumers.
So especially the larger corporations, they don't pay taxes.
They pass those on to consumers.
The small businesses have got to figure out how to eat that and or pass it on to consumers and stay competitive with the products and services they provide.
So the rules and regulations you talked about are huge.
We had an economist come in and talk to us and said, and this is a number that the Biden administration itself puts out there because every time you do a rule and regulation, you have to put with it the cost to consumers of what it would be to comply, our businesses or whoever.
And last year, the Biden administration, the cost of compliance of their new rules and regulations for just 2021 was over $201 billion.
Now, that's a huge cost.
It has to be Some have to be assimilated into the cost of the goods and services that businesses provide.
And when you have most of those businesses be small businesses, that's huge.
Those costs have to be incorporated into their cost of their products and services because they can't eat all of that.
That's $200 billion.
That's a phenomenal amount of money that's being forced into the inflationary part of our economy by just rules and regulations.
And we're not talking about energy.
We're not talking about money supply.
We're not talking about supply chain problems.
We're talking about just rules and regulations.
And so it's very, very impactful.
We lost somewhere around 30% of our small businesses through the pandemic.
And fortunately, there's enough people who are on the sidelines who say, well, I think I see an opportunity.
And we have a number of folks getting back in the game.
So there's some folks getting back in and willing to take that chance, that risk.
You know, that's the nature of small businesses.
They're entrepreneurs.
They're risk takers.
And when you have rules and regulations, it stymies that.
That's what stops our economy.
It stagnates it.
The innovation that comes from small businesses is tremendous.
This is where your ideas come.
These are the guys who come up with ideas in their garage or in their basements, and they're going to turn around and make it into a product.
And later on down the road, they may sell that product to a bigger company to help distribute it.
But the ideas and innovation come from small business.
And when you stymie that with rules and regulations and high interests and all of the other problems that you have, you're really stymieing our entire economy.
And this is where small businesses are.
They're entrepreneurs.
And the secret to our economy versus other countries Is this economic freedom that we have?
Economic freedom makes us different from the rest of the world.
We have a different kind of economic freedom, the kind that allows these entrepreneurs to be successful, to take chances, to take risks, and innovate.
And if that makes us different, it's that that drives our economy, and if you stymie that, suddenly you stagnate our economy and our country, and you wind up going into recession, as we're doing right now.
Well, Blink, you just brought up something that I think is just interesting.
And for folks who are listening on the podcast and going through their daily life, you're talking about businesses.
You know, it just hit me that you talk about, you know, the Small Business Administration, which is their quote designed to help, you know, small businesses provide loans to do, you know, in general, if people have that idea.
But the reality of it is, it seems like in my time there, and I'm sure you're getting up close and personal by being a ranking member on that committee, is the Small Business Administration seems to be sort of isolated from the commerce and from the tax, the treasury, because everybody else does stuff that affects what they do, and they seem to have to sort of live with it.
Is there...
One of the things that I think is interesting coming out of this is there's this discussion about all these job growth and everything over the last year.
You hit on it with the small business.
I've been very frustrated when the Biden administration talks about how many jobs they've created.
And the reality of it, most of it was coming back either from being stopped or delayed during COVID. And the reality is our small businesses are just getting back to trying where they were because of COVID more than anything that the Biden administration in particular has done.
Yeah, there's a number of things in your comment there.
You know, the Biden administration says they've created all these jobs.
Quite frankly, they haven't created one single new job, Doug.
If you look at the number of jobs that were in our economy prior to the pandemic, we're still over half a million jobs short of where we were prior to the pandemic.
So this administration still hasn't caught up to where we were prior to the pandemic.
So they haven't created one new job.
From the standpoint of the things that have been helpful to small business, keeping business, that was a PPP program.
That was a hugely successful program.
It was actually a treasury program that was put together by a treasury.
They took an SBA program, the 7A program, and turned it into the PPP program and oversaw that with the Small Business Administration being the administrator of the program.
And as we've gone through the process, it's very highly successful.
There's been some fraud in it, but minimal fraud compared to the problems that we have with other SBA programs.
And most of the fraud was actually centered in fintech companies.
It wasn't banks and credit unions.
It was fintech companies.
And that's primarily...
Centered in about half a dozen different companies.
So we've got it narrowed down to know exactly where the problem was and who did it.
We're recovering some of those funds as we speak, by the way.
But one of the things that's harmful is this energy or economic injury disaster loan program, which the inspector general, which, as you know, is the auditor for that agency, says there's about a 20 percent fraud rate in it.
And so I've got a bill to fix the problem.
Of the things that are going on in the SBA. Yeah, it doesn't coordinate very well with other agencies.
We ask each time we have a hearing toward the administrator and all the different department heads, are you coordinating with some of the other folks?
And it's kind of their kind of own little world there, and they really don't.
And my comment back to some of them recently, and especially the administrator herself, was, do you give a report back to the administration on how impactful their programs are, their policies are to small businesses?
How they're actually hurting them with higher interest rates, more rules and regulations, this inflation situation that's going on?
Have you ever talked to them and explained to them how this has negatively impacted small business?
Because you should be.
You should be looking out for small business.
And you can never get an answer from her, so it tells you she's not talking to the administration and not coordinating this stuff, Doug.
This is unbelievable that you have an administrator here who is not communicating with their own administration on the effects of those policies on the agency Folks that she is overseeing.
It is amazing to see.
And yet, we see it as a result of their lack of doing this in the way that they handle the agency.
You know, I could go on and on and on.
I mean, when I took over, we got an IG report that said there was, and there's 19 women's business centers, by the way, and three of them were doing stuff that was not only wrong, it was illegal.
So I said, this can't be happening.
So we got two of them shut down and cleaned up the third.
But I've got something called the Improve Act, which is to redo the agency itself.
Take away direct lending authority because they don't know what they're doing.
They're allowing rampant fraud to go on.
And this illegal activity with these women's business centers can't continue either.
So they've got an agency out of control.
And we, the Republicans, are trying to fix it.
And when we get back in trouble in January, we've got a bill that's going to be ready to drop to fix the problems of this agency so it can be effective for small businesses and protect the integrity of the tax dollars that all the folks that are watching this pay every day.
We've got to protect these tax dollars and help small businesses.
Well, you just hit on something.
It sounds, I mean, without doing a direct correlation, it sure sounds like the Small Business Administration sounds like the VA. I mean, they're sort of running on their own, figuring it out.
I want to hit something because I know you're real big also in financial services.
That's your background and a lot as well.
Businesses depend on a banking system and a financial system, whether it be through SBA, and we talked about the loans there just a little bit, but the regular banking system as well.
This seems to be another area that the current administration seems to be clueless about.
You go back to Biden's time as vice president with Obama, you had Dodd-Frank, you had others.
Where is the lending environment right now for small businesses?
Because I think that's an important part, especially, you may have a great idea, but if you don't have the capital or don't have the Ability to get a product out or get a system going.
And coming through the pandemic and now with inflation and with credit going back up, where do you see that with small businesses?
Yeah, that's a great point to make there, Doug.
You know, we had a witness one time testify, he said, look, he said small banks are the ones that make loans to small businesses.
And, you know, we in this country got the community banking system under attack.
The rules and regulations that the The regulators are putting such a burden on our banks that a lot of them are selling out.
There's a lot of consolidation going on within the financial services industry.
I had a long conversation with Jamie Dimon, chairman of JPMorgan, one time, and he said, we really don't want to make small loans to small businesses.
We want to wait till they grow those things to midsize or bigger institutions.
Then we'll take over the loans.
So where do small businesses go to get those startup funds, that startup capital it takes to make it work?
Well, you go to an agency like the Small Business Administration, or you go to small banks, or you go to online lenders.
That's going to be an expensive way to go, but if you can't find any other source, that's where you'll go.
The regulators have made it so difficult that a lot of the banks are inundated with this.
I'll give you an example.
I'm sure all your listeners right now can relate to a home mortgage loan.
I mean, we had a credit union mortgage lender one day in our committee, and we asked him about the number of pages.
It was like 500 pages now is the average of a home loan.
He said, we kept measuring it by the page.
We now measured by the pound.
That's how much this regulatory environment has forced a lot of stuff onto.
I know my family used to own a bank, and we For every new loan officer that we would hire, we'd have to hire one compliance officer.
That's a huge expense to have one person who doesn't make you any money, they do anything except do paperwork, shuffle them around to help make sure that the guy who does make the loan can do it right and check all the boxes.
It's this regulatory environment that we're in.
On top of that, the regulators have become very, very punitive again.
We did this during the Obama administration.
They were very forceful.
If you can remember Operation Chokepoint, Doug, I'm sure that was something that the regulators came in and forced the banking folks to not provide financial services to folks, not based on whether they were doing something wrong or illegal, but based on the biases of the regulators themselves.
Well, we're able to fix that during the Trump administration and stop it during the Obama administration, but now the individual who was the FDIC chairman, who was the main culprit on this Operation Choke Point, is back in charge of the FDIC again.
So guess what's going on again?
The other day, I caught the FDIC, Federal Reserve, Comptroller, the currency, the credit union regulator, and the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network folks colluding to drive an industry out of business.
Not because it was doing anything wrong.
They said it was money laundering.
And I proved to them there was no money laundering going on, and they admitted there was nothing going on.
So I said, you just admitted to me then that you're driving this industry out of business based on your own bias.
And this is the kind of stuff that drives up the cost of doing business, that drives businesses out of business.
It causes banks and credit unions to really pull back and say, hey, do we really want to lend money in these areas?
It's really causing a lot of consternation among a lot of small businesses because how do they get funds if the regulators are forcing banks to make some decisions that are maybe not in their best interest from the standpoint of financing, but their best interest to appease the regulators?
The whole system is upside down here.
The regulators are not supposed to pick winners and losers.
The economy does that.
The regulators are only supposed to be there to enforce the law.
And they've gone well beyond that, especially within this administration.
They are trying to legislate through regulation now.
And this has got to stop.
But it has a dramatic effect on small businesses because that means access to credit, access to funds, being able to start a new business or keep it going.
And so we've got to make sure that this nonsense stops.
Well, it does.
One of my favorite stories in Blaine, you talk about your family owning a bank.
I had a bank in my district one time I went to.
This has been about seven, eight years ago when I was in Congress, before I first came to Congress.
And I sat down with them and it's a small community bank.
It has a couple of locations.
You know, I think they have like 15 employees total.
Okay.
You know, between the two banks.
Regulators came into the main office where they had six or seven people working.
They brought in 15 examiners and got mad at the bank because their conference room wasn't big enough.
You got more people than the bank holds.
But back to something you just said, and I think you've hit something that hasn't been talked about in a while, but the last two Democratic administrations, Obama and now Biden, have used the banking system as a punitive tool, and Choke Point is one of those.
And folks, if you're listening out there on the podcast today, I want you to understand that we're talking about, we're not talking about You know, prostitution.
We're not talking about drug dealers.
We're not talking about...
This is not what we're talking about.
We're talking about gun dealers.
We're talking about, you know, outdoor shops that sell guns and stuff.
We're talking about...
And it spans out into other industries as well.
This is, I mean, and we also have a mixed up, you know, world in which, you know, we got states that are in now, whether we agree or disagree, is in the marijuana business, and yet they're having to do everything by cash because we can't do some of these regulations.
How do we sense, an interesting part for me would be, I mean, No, you're exactly right.
I watched them change and they've discovered that they could actually control the banks and by doing that, they could control the economy.
They could pick winners and losers in the economy, Doug, by forcing the banks to re-restrict or cut out credit access to financial services altogether.
Imagine if you're a business and you can't clear your credit cards.
What happens if you can't deposit your cash every day?
What happens if you can't get loans?
I mean, suddenly you're choked off from being able to exist.
And this is what they would do.
And it wouldn't be based on whether the business is doing something illegal.
They may act like they're doing something.
I mean, the regulars may say, well...
And then what they do is they go in and say, well, this is the business that we highly suspect...
It could cause you a reputational risk.
I used to be a bank examiner for a couple years after I got out of college.
I know exactly what they're doing.
I've been on both sides of this table before, and these guys are wrong.
They are out there trying to intimidate the banks and stop them from being able to do their job, which is to help grow their communities.
The regulators should be doing nothing more than deciding whether the laws are being adhered to and whether the A bank is administering loans in a fair fashion so that their community can grow.
They have no other objective.
And yet, they figured out during the Biden administration how to manipulate the economy through the banks.
And now, with the Biden administration, they're going full bore.
You know, it used to be, you know, tobacco shops and antique dealers and gun dealers and emission manufacturers, payday lenders and those folks.
Now, it's car dealers, it's coal companies, it's oil companies.
They're taking on a whole different group of people to try and drive them out of business with this green agenda.
If you are somebody who is in an industry that the green folks don't like, you are a target right now and are using this Choke point sort of method to go after the financial institutions and get them to kind of choke off financial services.
It is amazing to watch.
Amazing.
Yeah, and people don't realize this.
And I think this is sort of the disconnect that we have a lot of times with the regulatory part of this, the banking part, the jobs that, you know, for the vast majority of people, they don't have to deal with this on their end.
They wonder why, you know, we're not adding employees or we're having to cut employees.
A lot of it has to do with stuff that the government is doing to them that the average employee doesn't, you know, actually see.
Let's turn to something that you talked about a little bit earlier, and I think small businesses have to deal with this.
And that is...
I'm going to say it no other way.
A lack of qualified workforce.
And I think this is becoming bigger and bigger.
Some of it has been self-inflicted.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on this and the fact that over the past, especially a number of years, the government subsidies, the payouts, especially during the pandemic, have just not brought people back into the workplace.
I mean, it was the Department of Labor reported just a week or so ago, 11.3 million jobs were open at the end of May.
And You know, I can't think of, I travel a great deal.
I can't tell you, I've just gotten to where fast food is no longer fast food.
I mean, because the poor folks, they don't have anybody to work.
I mean, they don't.
They got, you know, if you're restaurants, I mean, I was in Florida just the other day, even, you know, in a bustling area around a tourist area, and they had to keep some of their tables basically closed because they don't have the waitstaff.
They don't have the people to do it.
And it's not just the seasonal stuff.
It's not just the, it's, you know, die casters, it's manufacturers.
What are we seeing?
Because I don't see any movement out of the administration, current administration, do that.
What from a Republican perspective or what from just general discussion here, how are we going to overcome this workforce issue?
Well, that's a great question.
I think that's what we've been talking about.
Leader McCarthy has had a whole bunch of different working groups to look at issues that, and this is one of them, things like the jobs, the border, the inflation, all these things.
And one of them is this workforce issue that we've got a committee on that how we can, when we get in charge in January, what we can do to be able to be helpful to small businesses as well as incentivize workers to go back to work.
And some of the programs, as you mentioned, that the administration has put together are really actually disincentives for people to go to work.
The first check that went out during the pandemic to keep people, put bread on their table to make sure they could still exist was fine.
The second one was unnecessary.
Even the CBO said that was unnecessary.
People were getting back on their feet.
They had money in their savings account.
They were able to actually fend for themselves.
And then we have some of the child tax stuff that's going on.
Actually, as the child tax credits for care, we need to make sure that we help people be able to take care of their kids and be able to go back to work.
But the way this thing is structured right now It actually is a disincentive of people to go to work because they can actually make money by staying home with their kids.
So there's just a number of things that we're going to have to take a look at when we get in charge to be able to, again, get people incentivized to go back to work.
You mentioned the unemployment numbers, 11.3 million people that are sitting on the sidelines right now.
There's that many jobs that are out there, and we have over 5.9 or something like that, people that are unemployed.
So you've got twice as many jobs as you want people to fill them.
I mean, what's the problem here?
What's the disincentive of people to go back to one of those jobs?
There's two jobs for every person out there right now.
You can't find one of those jobs that fits what you can do?
There's a disincentive.
There's a disconnect.
We've got to fix that.
Well, and I think that's going to be the interesting thing.
Curious, you brought up something I like to highlight because I know that Leader McCarthy and others, and I've talked and had them on, and we've talked about the possibilities and plans.
Because one of the things that I believe deeply, and I tried to do while I was in Congress, I know you have, is that Congress is more than simply the splashy hearing.
It's a place in which you actually control government, if you do it properly, to actually help businesses, to help people, to do those kind of things.
Has there been a thought, I know in your small committee, you're talking about business and workforce.
Has there been some coordination between, say, your committee's work, not only the small business, but the one that McCarthy has put together, with ways and means, and with financial services, and with maybe even judiciary to an extent, on things that could be implemented across platforms?
Because, as you said, your sort of jurisdiction is smaller, but it has such a huge impact.
Has there been some thought given to that?
Yes, there has.
And that's a great question.
One of the committees and the working groups, and it's one I'm on, actually, is the jobs and the economy.
Patrick McHenry is the leader on that working group.
But yeah, we're talking about small business folks.
We had Virginia Fox in the other day talk about the ed and workforce part of this.
We had Adrian Smith come in and talk about the ways and means of tax part of this.
We've had people come in and talk about the small business part of this.
We've had people come in and talk about The energy part of this as well.
All the things that affect jobs and the economy, we're bringing people in to talk about and then coming up with bills to be able to address certain parts of this issue.
And, you know, like for instance, the Ways and Means guys were in this week and they were talking about, you know, making permanent the middle tax cuts, for instance.
You know, that adds certainty to the tax code.
It helps small businesses, helps individuals plan.
You know, making permanent the doubling of the child tax credit.
That's something that really helps small families and beginning families to be able to, again, keep their dollars and be able to invest those back in their own families and what they need.
The death tax, for instance, make it permanent.
Rather than as this proposal that they've got out there to deal away with it or minimize it, depending on what they get done with it.
So there are a lot of things.
Those are just some that just came up this week.
But I mean, we've had a lot of other, like my Improve Act, the one to reform the SBA, is on the table for the small business folks.
So there's a lot of things that we're looking at and going to have hopefully ready by January 1. To be able to drop, to be able to make a difference, to be able to improve the atmosphere and the climate for small businesses and individuals as well.
And these working groups are doing a good job of bringing up issues and coming up with solutions to make that happen.
Before we get gone here in just a minute, Blaine, you brought up something a couple of times that is always one of the most mischaracterized, misunderstood, I think, things out there.
Left loves to demonize the, as we call it, the estate tax or the death tax.
They make it seem like this is a giant scam, rip-off, however you want to put it, that people are getting away with not paying taxes.
What the actual truth is, this affects small businesses, farmers, you know, these kind of...
Far disproportionately than anything else.
And, you know, and again, it's still a small...
Here's the funny part.
We dealt with this a few years ago, as you remember.
And the reports that were coming back were this, that the actual amount that you were going to, depending on where even you put this number, that it was not about the amount of money you were gonna get from the families, but it was actually a closet industry, if you would, for accountants and lawyers to try and figure out how to get away for accountants and lawyers to try and figure out how to get away From this tax.
Where does it stand right now for listeners if they're curious about this?
Where does it stand right now?
What are the Democrats wanting to do?
And you had mentioned talking about it through your plans.
Sort of give them a good overview of this.
Where we're at right now with it.
Well, you know, the Tax Chapter and Jobs Act that we passed in 2017 is still in place today, so the death tax that we passed back then is still in place.
Now, that being said, this group in charge, as you've discussed, wants to change that, and they want to Do everything from get rid of it altogether to revert back to what it was prior to the 2017 Tax Cuts and Jobs Act.
And so we'll see once where they go with it.
I'm very concerned.
You know, as you mentioned, this is something that can devastate small businesses.
you know, mom and dad or grandpa and grandma, whoever had worked their, their, their, their whole lives to make this business work and saved and script.
And now they've got the business to a point where it's going well, mom and dad are keeping it going, or you yourself are keeping it going.
And suddenly, you know, something happens.
And now how do you pass it on to your kids?
Um, this is, this, this, this is what causes consolidation because you can't pass it on.
You have to pay more taxes than what you can afford, uh, And farmers are a perfect example of this.
It's a huge problem for farmers because of the value of their land.
The land is a really, really high-valued part of their assets.
And if you have to sell part of the farm to make your tax payments, it may make that farm unable to pay for itself down the road.
And so then the family winds up with a situation where even though maybe they want to continue to farm, they can't.
Because they've got to sell part of it.
It makes them unable to be able to continue to form.
And they sell out and suddenly there's consolidation with all the other folks and bigger companies buying them or whatever.
And so it's really devastating.
This is a tax that doesn't need to be there.
Somebody cooked this one up.
These people already pay taxes on the money that they've invested in their business.
When you're a business person and you make $500,000 and you have $400,000 worth of expenses, so you made $100,000.
Let's say you made $450,000 worth of expenses and you made 10%, which is a business.
Most businesses don't make 10%.
Let's say we did.
So you got $50,000 to make your payments out of.
You've already paid taxes on that money and you're making payments out of that money.
So therefore, you've already paid your tax.
You don't need to be double taxed because if you sell your property because you have to pay your taxes on because you died, death should not be a taxable event.
Yes, that's what these folks think.
They think once you're gone, well, you don't care anymore.
Well, yeah, your heirs care.
You know, they care a lot because they want to continue on and have a job themselves or maybe have it be able to pass on to their kids or grandkids.
You know, this is the mindset of the left.
Anything that can happen anywhere out there, anybody that can't, you know, come back and get out of it, they want to be able to tax something.
They'll tax it until it's taxed to death.
And the old adage about it, you know, go tax something, it'll still move, tax it again, if it's still moving, you subsidize it.
So it's a bad deal.
But yeah, it's a really big deal to small businesses and farmers.
This death tax is Well, folks, if you're listening here, you know, Blaine Lugman is one of the best examples in Congress.
He actually cares.
He comes from a background that actually gives him knowledge of what he's actually, you know, wanting to do.
And he gets up there and he works to legislate.
That's what we need out of our Congress people right now is there's a lot of discussion.
You always have the hearings.
We'll always have the highlights.
But at the end of the day, Congress is about doing things that affect the American public in a good way.
And Blaine is one that I have come to look to and admire for his stance and what he's doing in leadership as we go into this fall.
Hopefully this fall, November, we'll put him in a chairmanship position next year and to get these things done.
Blaine, thanks for taking the time because small business is such an important part to all of us and it just really means a lot.
Thanks for coming on and explaining what the Republicans are doing and what you've been doing on the committee.
Thank you, Doug, for having us on, the opportunity to tell our story.
And thanks for your podcast and continued interest in getting good stuff out there to the people, helping them understand the process, understanding issues.
Information is very important for people to be able to make good decisions, and your efforts are really appreciated.
Thank you for what you're doing.
Take care.
Appreciate it a bunch, Mike.
All right, folks, that's the podcast for today.
Look forward to the next time.
We'll see you again on the Doug Collins Podcast.
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