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June 27, 2022 - Doug Collins Podcast
44:11
ROE IS GONE! What’s next?
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You want to listen to a podcast?
By who?
Georgia GOP Congressman Doug Collins.
How is it?
The greatest thing I have ever heard in my whole life.
I could not believe my ears.
In this house, wherever the rules are disregarded, chaos and mob rule.
It has been said today, where is bravery?
I'll tell you where bravery is found and courage is found.
It's found in this minority who has lived through the last year of nothing but rules being broken, people being put down, questions not being answered, and this majority say, be damned with anything else.
We're going to impeach and do whatever we want to do.
Why?
Because we won an election.
I guarantee you, one day you'll be back in the minority and it ain't gonna be that fun.
Hey everybody, it's Doug Collins and today is a very special podcast.
I'm bringing you this podcast coming after the heels of the Supreme Court's historic 6-3 decision overturning Roe v.
Wade, taking down one of the worst legal decisions that was ever perpetrated upon the United States and done so in a very...
Unlawful fashion, unconstitutional fashion.
It was just bad law.
The court has now saw that that is true.
They have ruled 6-3 that Roe is no longer the law of the land.
And what does that mean?
That means it now goes back to the states where it should have been all along.
Now many of you who've watched this podcast and know my personal story knows that this is very special for me.
And it's why I wanted to run this podcast today.
I wanted to take you back because we talked about what would happen if Roe was overturned.
We're going to talk about that.
I'm going to replay that episode for you today.
But I wanted just to give you a special Introduction because this is something I've been fighting for for years.
As many of you know, I have a daughter named Jordan.
Jordan is 30 years old.
Jordan was born with spina bifida.
Back when Jordan, as I tell the story, when Jordan was still in Lisa's womb, we were told that we should have choices and we should abort her.
In other words, she should have never had a life.
Jordan is 30 years old today.
Jordan has a life.
Jordan's life means something.
And for all those people who tell you that children with disability or people with disabilities or others don't have a full and fulfilling life, then I challenge you to go talk to somebody who, quote, you don't think has a full life.
Jordan has a full life.
She works.
She loves.
She laughs.
She is the center of our family and could not be more proud of her.
And so the decision by the Supreme Court to overturn Roe, put it back into states, now you're going to see a clear delineation.
You'll see a clear delineation between states that value life from conception to natural death, and you're going to see states that will go down the path of death, then choose the path of not having birthdays and not having life.
Now, this is a decision that will tear up this country, and probably throughout these days, in eight weeks ahead, you're going to see people on both sides.
This decision should have never been made the way it was.
This is the legacy of that court back in the 70s when they put this before a country in which they never should have.
Today's court puts it back right, and I'm glad to see that this decision is made.
So I just wanted to break into our normal podcast schedule.
We got a lot of things still coming up, but this is important.
I want you to have the right information, the right knowledge to know why this decision is good and what happens in light of Ro being overturned.
We taped this a little while back, a few weeks back, But it's worth you saying again.
And I wanted just to come on and just tag this and say, look, this is a good day for a court that is acting upon the principles of law and constitution.
You're going to hear a lot in the days and weeks to come that this was an unconstitutional decision.
Why wasn't they on stare decisis?
Why wasn't they leading to precedent?
The problem is, is when you had a law that was based on bad law, bad law.
No, it does not.
Even Alito talks about that in his decision.
So, with that all said, I thank you for listening to the Doug Collins Podcast.
Please...
Download it.
Share it.
This is a message that a lot of folks need to hear because they're going to just assume that abortion is over in the United States.
It's not.
Now it moves to the states.
And if you are a pro-life state, then you're going to have choices to make.
If you're in a state that is not pro-life, then maybe you have some more work today and we'll be praying for that to come.
So thank you for watching the Doug Collins podcast.
Take a look at this encore episode of what happens when Roe is overturned and we'll be back with you very soon.
This episode, as I spoke the other day, is we were talking about the elections.
And one of the things that I said was a wild card in the elections is a court case that just was set up last fall.
It came out and it was argued in November.
It was Dobbs v.
Jackson.
This is out of Mississippi.
This is the abortion case.
This is the test, if you would, of Roe v.
Wade.
This is deciding will there still be the setup from a federal level of overreach of Roe v.
Wade and a legalized abortion and the things that have been litigated for almost 50 years now is coming to a head.
And it's interesting that this is going to be part of this election cycle.
It's been something that's been looked at by the pro-life community for years.
Now we're here.
This is the challenge, and it's going to be interesting to see.
And we're going to talk about that Dobbs case here a little more in-depth here in just a little bit.
But for me, I want to just sort of lay off, and I'm going to start this with a story.
And many of you know my family, and I've told this story many times before.
Jordan is Lisa and I's daughter.
She's 30 years old.
She is a wonderful lady.
I wish I had half of the patience and love and kindness that she has.
But Jordan has spina bifida.
Jordan is handicapped.
She's paralyzed from the waist now.
And she has been since birth.
When Lisa and I first found out we were going to be parents 30 years ago this year, April 1st as a matter of fact is when Jordan's birthday is, we found out in February on a regular routine ultrasound that I had rushed back for it because I had missed some of the ultrasounds.
Now for those of you who are parenting now or your grandparents now, you're seeing your kids start to have babies, the ultrasounds have changed and they're so much better.
Back then they were doing ultrasounds just to test mainly, but they had put one off and I was going to get to come back and see it.
And I remember rushing back, getting back to the doctor's office.
They're doing the ultrasound.
The nurse leaves the room, says she just wants to go see the doctor.
And I remember Lisa looking at me and tears in her eyes and says, something's wrong.
And I said, no, it's not anything wrong.
I mean, I'm a guy and everything will be fine.
It's our first child.
Everything's going well.
And to come back in, the doctor came back in and kept looking, kept looking, and pointed to this little black and white grainy screen and said, we have a problem.
And he used these fancy words, myelomeningocil, in other words, to say that Jordan had spina bifida.
In other words, she had an open spine is the way the doctors portray it.
We didn't know what that meant.
This was before the internet that we had access to.
We went to the library, we saw these horrific pictures.
It was a really troubling time.
When you're excited about what you believe God had given you as your first child.
We were struggling with this and didn't know what was happening, but we did know one thing, that no matter what it was, this was God's plan and we were going to have a very special child.
During this time, Lisa went back to school.
She was teaching school, and one of the teachers who was teaching with her came up and was in her best to try and comfort Lisa, I guess, was saying that, you know, Lisa, you got choices to make.
And, of course, we were in the process then of choosing a new doctor, a new hospital to have Jordan because we had to be closer to a pediatric ICU unit and NICU unit.
So we were making a lot of decisions, and Lisa said, yes, we're making these decisions, and we've got to go down to Atlanta and find out.
She said, no, no, no.
She said, you've got choices to make.
You don't have to do this.
And then finally it clicked in with what Lisa was saying.
To Lisa what she was saying, and that was, you don't have to go through with this pregnancy.
You don't have to have You're a child.
And Lisa looked at her and said, you're talking about my child.
We're going to have our child.
And about six weeks later, Jordan was born.
She had a lot of issues in the first few years.
But, you know, God sees you through.
Life is precious.
It was His to give.
It was not for us to take.
And I could not imagine a moment without Jordan in our life.
Has it been easy?
No.
Is it easy for her?
No.
Does it break my heart to watch some of the things in life that she has to go through that's not normal?
Yes.
But also, the giftedness of life that God gives is so important.
So, from a perspective that is personal, and I share this, this is why abortion has become such the flashpoint that it is.
It's something that's not policy-wise.
It's something that is very visceral on how you look at life.
So as we start this conversation about abortion, I bring this up because this is going to become very much of an electionary issue.
I'm predicting it now.
It's been very quiet.
You don't hear a lot of people talking about it.
But I wanted to hear on the podcast.
I wanted to get ahead of this a little bit.
because when this decision is dropped in the end of June, it's going to cause a lot of stir on both sides of this debate.
Whether you're pro-abortion or you're pro-life, this is gonna cause a lot of stir depending on how they come out with this.
So in this, it's also gonna then, it's just like everything else, just like inflation, just like war, just like the things that we talked about the other day.
In the election episode, this is going to affect how campaigns operate.
This is going to affect how campaigns deal With turnout on the right and on the left, and it could be a determinant factor in some of these closer races.
So I wanted to give you just sort of history.
Many of you know abortion from seeing it on TV. You hear about it.
You've talked about it.
If you go to church, you've heard about it.
If you're pro-choice, you want to keep that, the woman's right to choose, the whole argument.
But let's just sort of go backwards.
We did not always have a constitutional right, as if you would through the Roe v.
Wade decision, right to abortion.
And as we look at this, there's nothing more polarizing than abortion.
And the interesting part about the Dobbs case here is that the Dobbs case is going to possibly put it back to where it was almost 50 years ago.
And I think that's going to be an interesting time for federalism in this country.
You may say, well Doug, what does that mean?
That if they overturn Roe, then there's no abortions?
No, that's not true.
In fact, it simply sends it back to the states.
And that's where the states were working in many states.
Some were approving it, some were not, and that was sort of the basis of where you were looking.
So historically, let's look at this.
In 1967, the first state was Colorado.
To actually approve or liberalize this abortion laws and it will approve abortion for physical disabilities of the child and the mother, rape, incest, and these things.
California, North Carolina, Oregon followed suit very quickly.
This is 1967. So you can see That from what was a ban and an understanding of no abortions in the United States being performed, you're starting to see the states individually start taking on this issue and then what would be known back then as liberalizing their abortion laws to allow for abortion.
Now in 1970, New York abortion on demand Up until 24 weeks became signed into law.
Rockefeller signed this into law.
Alaska, Hawaii, Washington State followed suit.
So as you can see here, we're building up 67, 70. And this is coming in a sense of what we see As the courts agreeing with this but the state legislatures dealing with it in their own way in their own states and I want to emphasize why this is important because it gives you a hint of what could be happening in the future but also why I believe that the Roe v Wade decision one of the worst decided constitutional cases that we've ever seen decided both liberals and conservative jurists and
scholars have said this forever On the Roe v.
case because it actually was a judicial solution to a problem that was beginning to be handled at the state level.
No matter what side you fell on, it was beginning to be addressed at these levels.
And the controversy was real.
1971, U.S. v.
Vutch, V-U-T-C-H, actually Washington, D.C. allowed abortions.
And this was upheld by the courts in that.
So you're starting to see the courts actually running on this as well.
Now, that brings us to 1973 on the ending case of Roe v.
Wade and also Doe v.
Bolton.
Now, both of these are together.
The Roe v.
Wade emphasized the And what became of the trimester selection of when a state can do anything, you know, the first trimester they can do nothing, second trimester only maternal, you know, if it dealt with maternal health, third trimester they could ban those.
But this was The interesting position of Roe v.
Wade that built on a previous case.
Now, again, liberal activists, pro-choice activists, pro-abortion activists had been fighting in these states, state to state, to make it legal or to show it to be legal in certain stages to get an abortion in these states.
We already saw this happening.
This was not a new occurrence.
It was a discussion, but it was being played out in the proper federalist doctrine, if you would, of our country, and that is each state deciding for themselves what their value of life was and how they determined that if abortion was going to be legal or not legal.
But that wasn't going fast enough.
So lawyers such as Ruth Bader Ginsburg and many others began to push cases testing the limits of these abortion laws and finding a new and frankly creative doctrine under which to find the basis for abortion.
Approving of abortion and Roe v.
Wade was the, I guess if you want to say from their perspective of getting judicial activism into this was their crowning achievement.
Now why is this important?
I'm a believer that if it had continued through the states, that you would have had a patchwork of laws throughout the country, that this would be a state issue.
This would be an issue that would be very real.
For those of us on the pro-life side, we would want to remove it from any state in which it was.
For the pro-choice side, they would be wanting to expand it to wherever they could.
And this would be where it would be fought.
It would be fought in the elections of the legislatures in these states to taking the feeling of the public in which they represent and implying them into the states of which they govern.
By taking this out, it was not going fast enough.
And if you read some history about this, you will see that the activists were saying, you know, in essence, this was not going fast enough.
We need to challenge this in court and get this determined as a right for a woman to have the right to an abortion.
Now, a case that was the forerunner of Roe v.
Wade actually was the one that set the parameters for this right of privacy spoken of in the Roe v.
Wade case.
Now, it's been used in other cases as well, this issue of right of privacy, but for this one in particular, it goes and builds on what Justice Douglas called And citing the Bill of Rights and the number of Bill of Rights, this penumbra or shadows is what penumbra is actually, I mean the shadows.
In other words, this is the right, but that shadow of that right gives rise to these other enumerated rights that would give rise to what would be known as a right of privacy.
And it would be included to include a woman's right to choose to have an abortion.
And this is how the whole case developed.
So it's really...
Understanding-wise, you need to understand that a case out of Connecticut, the Griswold case, was about contraception.
Now think about this for a second.
How they were going to enforce this case was always one that was always presented some interesting arguments for those of us in law school, but Griswold case was about contraception and the state's banning of the use of contraception.
Out of that case, they developed the right of privacy that you would have in your home to use contraception, and this is where this whole case sprung from.
Out of this became the right of privacy.
Out of that became then the decision in Roe v.
Wade, which using the right of privacy to have a right that that right of privacy extended to health decisions, that right of privacy extended then to a woman being able to choose to terminate a pregnancy.
The reason this is important and the reason this was such a decision that has caused every court justice of the Supreme Court now in their confirmation hearings to have to answer their question on their determination of Roe v.
Wade.
Will they uphold it?
Will they not uphold it?
And we've seen that a lot here in the recent weeks and months under the Trump administration and under the Biden administration and under the Obama administration.
I mean, it has become the most dominant question many times In these judicial confirmation hearings is the determination of what is their judicial philosophy concerning Roe v.
Wade.
Here's also something I need to tell you.
If you listened many times to the conversations that go on around the court's picks and the president's picks on the court over the last 50 years, they have determined that Roe v.
Wade is the ultimate litmus test.
It was not as bad necessarily in the 80s and 90s.
It was still there, but it has grown tremendously in the last 25 years.
Here's an interesting fact for you.
The court takes up maybe, maybe, Supreme Court, one to two cases every ten years in abortion.
Maybe.
It's so important, however, that people put all of their determination on who should be a Supreme Court Justice on how they actually interpret Roe v.
Wade and would they be willing to overturn it.
I think in many ways this has become a disservice to the court.
I think it is something with the court that deals with all areas of our life, not just this one, which is so vitally important, which I believe they got wrong to start with.
And I freely say that in this podcast.
I think when you deal with it, it has made the court impose its judicial activist will on a nation that was already dealing with this in the political realm.
If you take this out away from the people, if you take this away and say that the court is going to imply this, especially in this instance when you were actually moving forward, this is what has caused it.
Now, you can agree or disagree, but you can't disagree with the facts that states, and we named them all from 1967 on through 1970, others were continuing it.
Even up until the passage of the court decision in Roe v.
Wade were adding to abortion rights in this country.
Much of the chagrin of those in the pro-life movement at the time, which was nascent, which was really non-existent because there had never been a need to at this point.
But as they were making progress in legislatures, they chose to take it in hyper- Speed it up into the courts.
Courts made it applicable to the country.
Then you have the problem in which we face today, in which everything surrounding the United States Supreme Court typically starts and ends with what is the justice's view on abortion.
And this is really, you know, where we come.
Now, since Roe v.
Wade, there was a couple of cases that began to roll back some of Roe v.
Wade, strengthen it in some ways, also take away from it.
Casey Planned Parenthood case, this was instituted what would be known as the undue burden test.
And that is, if a state Number one, the state could begin to put restrictions on the access to abortions, whether that be through access to clinics, access to hospitals, access to ultrasounds.
I mean, you start building on this progression, parental consent, all of this that would be weighed into this.
The question was after Casey, Casey upheld the tenant's Of Roe v.
Wade, but then said that if anything was to affect any of these parts in any of this time of the pregnancy, so to speak, the viability issue, these other things, that it had to meet the undue burden test.
Was it an undue burden on the A twin decision.
That also opened this up a great deal on Roe v.
Wade was Doe v.
Volton.
Doe was the same day.
It doesn't get the attention that Roe does, but it's very important because it defined health of a mother as including all aspects of health.
Psychological, mental, physical, spiritual, all aspects.
So that basically opens it up for anyone.
When you say that you can have an abortion based on This is where Doe comes in and says that's a valid reason and to restrict it because you then run up later in the Casey case and that's an undue burden and how does that affect how someone would get an abortion.
For those, this becomes a semantics exercise on how you actually define life of a mother.
Is it health of a mother or life of a mother?
Those are two distinctions.
Doe made it very clear that health of a mother, it would include anything.
Even if they just basically were depressed and wanted to get an abortion, that was a valid grounds of health of a mother.
Life of a mother being a different story.
I need to go back and pick that piece up as we go.
Over the years courts have and states have been pushing this envelope and it's undue burden test and it's been it's been building up over the years in the spring court we're seeing it more and more over the past 20 years and during that time you have seen the activism rise more and more into which there was not state solutions because they felt bound by Roe v Wade they had to go through the court route so you've seen Pro-life community for a number of
years has been looking for opportunities to challenge Roe v.
Wade.
You saw that coming through the 90s with Casey and those cases that came forward.
And then continuing on to make sure that the Supreme Court, so in a presidential election, again, abortion, conservative, would always come up because of the appointments of the Supreme Court to the Supreme Court by the President.
The court now sits at six to three on the conservative scale, with most will tell you that there are five votes now for, if not overturning Roe all the way, at least curtailing it a great deal, and possibly as many as six.
Now, the reason I say six is they're using Roberts as the up and down vote here.
Roberts, in the questioning recently, in the Dobbs case, questioned the trimester system.
I think he makes, if you look at his years prudence, it would be very hard for him To do a construct that is not grounded in some ways that he feels in law.
This is the problem with Roe.
Roe was not constructed out of the constitutional enumerated right.
It was constructed out of what we understood from Justice Douglas as this shadow.
In other words, that they existed in the edges of these known rights of speech and assembly and all these things, the unenumerated even, that we had some justices in the Ninth Amendment.
So you're seeing a court now that is sharply divided.
Ginsburg no longer on the court.
Again, Ginsburg had a great deal to do with the original cases that led up to the Roe v.
case.
A very strong advocate of the pro-choice side is no longer on the court.
You now have a 6-3 court, five of which pretty much assumed, and you can sort of tell it in their questioning, will At minimum vote to restrict a rollback roll in many ways.
There is a strong determination now that you could be seeing this Dobbs case Actually roll it back completely because of the the aspect dealing in viability and dealing in the just this artificial construct of the trimester system that was put in and understood under this undue burden.
Now what the first thing what are we talking about here?
What is the Dobbs case and why is it important?
The Dobbs case is out of Mississippi where they banned abortions after 15 weeks and This was the determination and drawing.
The state legislature passed this bill.
They have one abortion clinic in Mississippi.
This was the Jackson Health case.
And so this, in essence, banned most abortions in the state after 15 weeks.
This way outside of the viability standards that were set up, the undue burden standards, this is one that directly on its face attacks Roe v.
Wade.
It's interesting that the Mississippi case is the one being heard.
There are other cases that you may have heard of in the last little bit out of Texas and other states that basically did a complete ban on abortion or a much shorter time frame.
Six weeks, fetal pain, those kind of bills that were not taken up.
The Mississippi case presents the hardest case, I think, for the pro-choice community to have to deal with and presents a case in which the conservatives could either take what happened in Mississippi, bring it back to that standard, and still leave parts of Roe v.
Wade intact, but say that after a sudden amount of time you can restrict abortion.
Interesting quote came out of the Dobbs oral arguments.
Justice Roberts, who is, again, conservative, but they're not sure that if he's willing to go against precedent of Roe enough to overturn it, made the case.
Basically, in a question, he said, isn't 15 weeks enough?
After 15 weeks, is that not enough to decide if you want a child or not?
Now, a pro-choice argument is saying that's not the determination of a government or a justice.
That is the determination of a female who is having this child.
Again, a lot of angst back and forth in this case.
So you have to understand that it is one now that the very viability of Roe, the very viability of the precedent cases after that, are From a pro-choice perspective, very much in jeopardy from us on a pro-life perspective.
For the first time, it is a chance as Scott Stewart, who's the Attorney General in Mississippi, argued.
He said this riot was not grounded in the context of the Constitution, but it was an abstract concept.
It was something That he was acknowledging the arguments that have been made by both liberal professors and conservatives that the Roe case was basically a made-up case.
It was a case made up on abstract principles that were not directly tied to the text in the language of the Constitution and the constitutional rights thereof.
This is where he also brings it back and says, let's take this back to where it should be.
Again, the court is now In an interesting determination.
There are many who feel like Roe v.
Wade was one of the worst decided cases in the annals of the Supreme Court, up with Plessy and Dred Scott and just so many other cases that were wrongly decided by a court.
And it is needed to be changed.
The Dobbs case makes this premise very real because the Mississippi case, with the exception of a life of mother, set this at 15 weeks.
It set it below the threshold of what is determined the courts have used as viability.
But then the question became, is it an undue burden if you set it at 15 weeks?
Now there are many who, frankly from the pro-life community, are not crazy about 15 weeks.
It allows 15 weeks in which states could allow abortions.
But if they kept under the rogue concept.
I think what is more being pushed here and what Stewart, the Attorney General from Mississippi is saying, is now it is time just to start over.
It is time to get the courts out of this decision making process.
It is the time to get the courts out of this process.
Send it back to the states in which you will then have the discussion of elected officials representing people that they see and know every day to decide.
Is this where we want our state to be?
Do we want our state to be a part of allowing abortion?
Do we want to be a part of it?
How much do we want to allow?
How far do we want to allow it?
Even going back in, do you want to allow, just as Colorado and the District of Columbia and some recently have passed laws that say that abortion is legal up until before birth?
I mean, I'm not sure very many people really would believe that it's okay to kill a full-term child in the womb at 38, 39, 40 weeks.
It's hard for me to believe that.
But yet you do have those on the other side that says, well, it's not a matter of viability, it's not a matter of choice, it is a matter of the woman having this right founded in Roe, this penumbra part of these rights, these shadow rights that come from other rights that form this right of privacy.
The burden of a pregnancy.
Justice Amy Comey Barrett made the cases.
Do not the proliferation of adoptions and adoption option relieve the burden of caring for and carrying a child.
Again, these are the questions that were asked in this Dobbs case.
It makes it very interesting.
Now, if you look at it, what's going to happen?
I don't know.
I'm not here to say that I believe that this court, even on a 5-4 basis or a 6-3 basis, is going to come back and say, we are determining that after hearing these arguments, that Roe is no longer valid That we are overturning Roe.
We're sending this back to the states and allowing the states to determine how they want to handle this.
Or will they take a more moderated approach and say, we agree with Mississippi.
This is not an undue burden.
We agree up until this point.
And sort of, in many ways, taking the argument that Justice Roberts and many others have said that this trimester exclusion was something that was a fiction made up and randomly gave.
Is this something that will now be thrown out, but then they're replacing it with another random number, random weeks, 15, that would then determine when abortion could be legal and when abortion could not be legal.
I'm beginning to believe, if you read the transcript, that Roberts is struggling mightily with what he would consider, I believe, a false construct of 15 weeks.
You know, the reason why 15 weeks was used, the reason why any of these time frames, even in terms of viability, I think he's struggling with that.
We'll see how that comes out in his voting in this case.
I lay all of this out because I want you to understand what's at stake here as you go forward.
Now, there's been many on the liberal commentator side that say that if Roe is overturned, they use the old quote from Justice Scalia that this is not the end of it, so to speak.
If they overturn Roe, then you're going to have cases brought on everything from interracial marriage to same-sex marriage to others.
I think Stewart answered that question pretty succinctly when he said we're not dealing in life and death here.
This is dealing in life and death and the life and death of that child in the womb.
I think you'll see that that will not be the case, and especially in same-sex marriage and others, there's other legal Well, I'm glad you asked.
How's this going to affect?
Let's just say, what happens next?
Let's take this first.
Before we get into the election process here, what happens next?
Let's say if they overturn Roe, what does it go?
It goes back to the States.
So some of you, I have some pro-life friends that may say, well, as soon as Roe is over, there's no more abortion in the United States.
That's just wrong.
That's wrong.
It is sent back to the states.
The states can then determine how they want to handle abortion, and they can determine, just like Colorado just recently did, that they want it all the way, that there's a right, a preeminent right to an abortion up until the time of birth.
Or it could be as little as a state saying, okay, you're going to have an abortion, but it can only be done in the first...
You know, six weeks, eight weeks of pregnancy, however they want to determine that.
Again, they leave it to the states and to the elected officials.
So elected officials are going to have to vote on it or the people will have to vote on it, however they want to do it.
That's what would happen if Roe is overturned.
If the Roe, if Mississippi is rejected, let's just say that something, I don't think this will happen, but let's just say if the, if the, uh, justice strike down Mississippi and say, nope, undue burden and leave everything stand pat.
That's a bigger issue and a concern, I think, from the pro-life movement from twofold.
Number one, I believe if that happens, the pro-life movement is frankly at a standstill over Roe v.
Wade.
At that point in time, with a court of 6-3 conservative, as you see it right now, jurists, and they do not overturn Mississippi and they keep things as Casey, so to speak, with the undue burden test and continue this on, I'm not sure where the pro-life argument goes from here.
It's going to be very difficult.
It will still continue.
There will still be pushes to make it happen, but it does take the frontal challenge of row and gives it some serious thought and consideration on how you move forward from here.
The other aspect is if If that occurs, then how does this either selection affect the election?
Number one, we understand that if Roe is overturned, it goes back to the states.
If Mississippi is struck down, then everything sort of stands pat, and it'll be interesting to see where the pro-life movement, how they then react in these different areas in different states.
From an election standpoint, what does this mean?
When abortion is around an issue, it is one of the most polarizing topics that you can come up with.
It is one that pits family against family.
It presents neighbor against neighbor.
And when it comes to elections, you will have down to even county commission races in which people are going to be asking, are you pro-life or are you pro-choice?
For the first time in many, many years, this will become an election issue that candidates will have to answer.
Especially at these Senate races that we've talked about on the podcast, these congressional races that we've talked about on the podcast, and especially at the governor's races.
You want to start putting an emphasis now on the...
Really, what we're going to be looking at on these state-level races, if this is overturned and the abortion legislation is sent back to the states, can you imagine the pressure that will now be upon state legislatures, especially in those purple states or in the liberal states, when it comes down to a governor's election, who controls the legislatures in these states?
This is why I believe this could be the wild-card issue In this election.
Because the turnout could be determined on whose side loses.
And the question would be, will conservatives who have fought this case for so many years, if they get it thrown back to the states, would they then not be as motivated to turn out?
Or if they lost the case, not motivated to turn out?
If the pro-choice community feels like this has been taken, would they focus their attention back on the states and they would try to move forward in states in which they already have the ability to move the legislatures in a more liberal direction?
Who knows?
Now, there are many states who already have laws on the books and have been on the laws, many books that are trigger laws.
In other words, trigger laws mean that if Roe is overturned, that their state will ban abortion in some way.
These are already on there.
They're triggered by a ruling in their favor on the Roe v.
Wade case.
So, these are already out there.
The world will change one way or another, I believe, in the last week of June when this case is actually put out for the determination.
And it will affect this election cycle.
How it affects the election cycle will be up to each state.
I think if the indicator is that Mississippi at minimum will be upheld, you're going to see a lot of states, especially state legislatures and others, in which this will become the number one topic in race, especially for conservative leaning states that have not enacted anything On this issue, you're going to start seeing more.
You're already seeing more and more states take more restrictive abortion measures.
You'll see that be a part of the campaigns for the fall in these states, which will affect local turnout.
If local turnout is up, you're going to see the effect through the governor's races, the Senate races, and others.
So it'll be interesting to see how those will give a conservative candidate a boost in races all across the state.
If it is You know, one in which Mississippi is just struck down.
Then it's going to be a little more interesting to see what the next step of the pro-life movement will be, especially when it determines election.
So this is one of those cases, this is one of those issues that if you had started off a year and a half ago saying, Not sure this was gonna make it into this election cycle, but when the case was heard in December and then left open for argument and decision by June, think about this.
For primaries, we've already been talking about this.
Most of the primaries are gonna be over with by the time this decision is made.
You have a few primaries that will be left out there, and the next election will be the November 2022 election, and abortion will be back front and center.
Why?
Because of Dobbs v.
Jackson out of Mississippi.
It's an issue you need to know about.
Many of you already are passionate about this issue.
If you're passionate about it and you want to tell me about it, go to the DougCollinsPodcast.com.
Go in there where you can send me a message.
Send me a message.
I'll look over those messages.
I would love to hear from you on this.
I believe this could be one of those hidden turnout issues that will affect the election cycle come November 2022. And it's going to depend on back where it was in the 70s.
When the pro-life choice community was not aware of what was going on, the pro-choice community was fighting in these states to gain access to abortion, and they took it out of the states, moved it to the Supreme Court, won the case of Roe v.
Wade, thus changing the political landscape and the judicial landscape for the last 50 plus years.
When you understand that, then you understand the volatility of abortion.
You understand why it is so important in looking at these elections.
And from my perspective, let me just say this.
If you ever thought that that was not a life in there, then I just challenge you.
Call me.
My daughter Jordan is proof that God makes beautiful life, even if it's not what we look as a perfect model.
It is the imperfections and perfections of life that make us who we are.
Jordan has provided life to so many people and an attitude that provides hope to others.
How would you want to take that out?
What life that has been lost in the millions of abortions in the last 50 years could have been the things that helped cure, save, and help us?
You see, life is to be treasured and to be precious.
That is why I believe that men will be sent back to the states and let's fight it out in the states.
Let's go to have this discussion of where life begins and what the meaning of life is.
And folks, from a pro-life perspective, if you're listening to this today, it's not just simply about abortion.
It's about adoption.
It's about caring.
It's about foster care.
It's about making sure that we as conservatives care about all humans From the womb to the tomb, so to speak, it is our job to realize that God has given us that gift and each of us a gift to help others.
That is why this issue matters.
So, and amongst other things, we're going to be talking about more issues coming up.
I'm going to bring up criminal justice reform.
I'm going to talk about guns.
We're going to hit all the issues that move voters in these cycles, and it's going to be interesting to lay these out, lay the historical foundations, and then lay where we're going to go in the future.
Again, thanks for being with us today on the Doug Collins Podcast.
Take this, share it, like it, download it, make sure that you're a part.
Look, I've never had a discussion about abortion in which it did not end up in a lot of comments on both sides.
Go to thedougcollinspodcast.com, hit that comment over there, send me an email.
Love to hear your comments.
And until the next time, keep studying.
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