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Jan. 30, 2026 - The Culture War - Tim Pool
02:00:51
Don Lemon ARRESTED, CIVIL WAR! CHAOS Amid Democrat INSURGENCY w/ Cam Higby, Jorge Ventura, & Andrew Branca

BUY CAST BREW COFFEE TO SUPPORT THE SHOW - https://castbrew.com/ Become A Member And Protect Our Work at http://www.timcast.com Host: Tim Pool @timcast(everywhere) Guests: Cam Higby @CamHigby (everywhere) Andrew Branca @TheBrancaShow (X) Jorge Ventura @VenturaReport (X) My Second Channel - https://www.youtube.com/timcastnews Podcast Channel - https://www.youtube.com/TimcastIRL

Participants
Main
a
andrew branca
26:51
c
cam higby
09:56
j
jorge ventura
dailycaller 09:55
t
tim pool
01:12:27
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Speaker Time Text
Minnesota's Civil War 00:14:44
tim pool
Don Lemon's arrested.
We got him, boys.
Listen, I don't care if he lets all the illegals go.
I don't care if he burns down the economy.
I don't care if he goes to war with Iran.
Just please arrest Don Lemon.
It's the only reason I voted for Trump.
So I'm satisfied.
I'm done.
It was good hanging out with you guys.
I'll see you later.
jorge ventura
Show's over.
tim pool
Show's over.
We're still waiting for Andrew Branca, the law of self-defense specialist, who's going to come and talk to us about it.
But we're going to be talking about what's going on in Minnesota.
It's a civil war, ladies and gentlemen.
I mean, not literally in the sense where I can actually say we know definitively.
We talked about this last night.
But you got Hakeem Jeffries going on TV, I guess the other day, saying that Christy Noam should be murdered.
He literally said it.
He said, not literally, he said, Christy Noam should be put on ice permanently, which look it up in any dictionary.
It means to murder.
It's a slang term for killing somebody.
And you've got Molly Ringwald saying there should be mass executions of Trump supporters.
You've got Kathy Griffin saying, start tracking who in your community is MAGA and start planning.
And we know what all this means.
We know all those means and where it's going.
Kathy Griffin brings up that there is this network in Minnesota of people who help each other out.
Yeah, they're state-sponsored.
They have access to state-level infrastructure.
So we're playing this game, I guess, where the liberals are screaming, Don Lemon got arrested.
Oh no, our rights are being violated.
He was indicted by a grand jury, but none of that really matters.
We are well past the point where any legitimate argument is going to be made by either side for who is truly morally correct.
All that matters is one side sees an enemy combatant taken down in whatever way possible.
Now, to be fair, it's not people on the right largely calling for the murder of people on the left, though Trump did say that the seditionists in Congress who called for troops to defy lawful orders, unlawful orders, sorry, he said that they should seditious conspiracy, and then he said punishable by death.
So let's just say that things are getting quite a bit spicy.
But we got a couple people joining us today to talk about this.
As I mentioned, Andrew Branco will be here in just a minute.
I think actually he might have just pulled up.
And he can talk to us about these shooting incidents with CBP and ICE in Minnesota and whether or not self-defense qualifies based on the law.
But we got a couple people here with real experience on the ground who know full well about what's going on with these insurgency groups.
So while we start over here, do you want to introduce yourself?
cam higby
Kim Higby, political commentator and journalist.
And I also just wanted to defend Hakeem Jeffries real quick.
There's a lot of ways you could interpret, put her on ice permanently.
And the way I interpreted it was he wants her to run DHS forever.
tim pool
Yeah, he says she should be in charge of ICE forever.
She's doing such a great job.
cam higby
Put her on ice forever.
unidentified
Yeah.
tim pool
Yeah, he should have just added, she should sleep with offices.
unidentified
Yeah.
jorge ventura
And Jori Ventura, reporter, Daily Caller News Foundation.
And yeah, been on the ground in Minneapolis just was actually at the press conference yesterday with Bordeaz Art Tom Holman now at leadership.
So it was interesting to see that switch up and his different messaging.
Tim did bring you some protest souvenir from Minneapolis.
A good old classic legal observer.
Don't shoot 101 special edition.
So this is from Minneapolis.
tim pool
This is propaganda.
unidentified
How do you debate it?
tim pool
This is legit propaganda intended to create images.
jorge ventura
You like that out, yeah?
cam higby
I'm wondering how you got it.
tim pool
They want people.
This is for real?
jorge ventura
Yeah, this is from the end.
And I want to give it to you.
tim pool
The reason why they put don't shoot on it is because they want someone who doesn't know anything about politics to believe that they are the victims.
That's the point.
But Andrew has showed up.
You made it.
Hey, who are you?
You want to grab the mic, pull it in close.
andrew branca
Hey guys, I'm Attorney Andrew Branca from The Branca Show.
And I don't know if this is my fourth or fifth time here with Tim, but you got to get close.
Otherwise, I can't get close.
All right.
And my expertise is use of force law, defending yourself, your family, your property, by either civilians or police.
tim pool
Right on.
Well, we should get into the nitty-gritty of what went down in Minnesota and where we're currently at.
But we'll start with the broadest and the boldest of what is going on.
As I mentioned, Hakeem Jeffries says, put Christian on ice permanently, which is a slang term for murder.
Afterwards, he went, no, and then fire her.
Yeah, okay, dude.
Like, I'm not playing this game anymore because we've not tolerated this kind of language on any of my shows in the past where people would use innuendo to insinuate violence.
We don't do that.
And all that matters is it's the question, are there crazy enough people who will hear Hakeem Jeffrey say that and interpret it as he said it to kill her?
The answer is yes.
We've already seen, I mean, look, we have the assassination of Charlie Kirk, the attempted assassination of Donald Trump, several, actually.
And we've seen death threats across the board.
I got shot at, not personally, but my property got shot at.
So I suppose the first question, and I want to go through this first question just relatively quickly based on what we're seeing in Minnesota before we get into the specifics of what happened with the shooting.
But what would you describe where we're at?
People are asking the question, is it civil war?
Will there be a civil war?
Right now, it appears that we have state-sponsored paramilitaries operating in Minnesota.
We can try and be as reserved as possible and say, no, no, we don't want to say anything extreme.
We are in a period where state-sponsored insurgent paramilitaries are attacking law enforcement.
And that's it.
But how do you guys feel about what's going on?
How would you describe it?
cam higby
It's an insurrection for sure.
And people are really antsy about me using that term.
They say it's not an insurrection.
And I say just ask the people on the ground themselves, the actual insurrectionists.
They literally fly the rebel flag from Star Wars.
They call themselves the resistance.
Spoiler alert, rebellion, resistance, insurrection, they're all synonyms.
They mean the same thing.
They openly call themselves an insurrection.
It's exactly what they are.
They're resisting the government, the federal government, and there is a systematic coordination to impede federal law enforcement actions and operations.
And they're doing it every day.
It's how Renee Good got killed.
It's how Alex Predi got killed.
They were all there in coordination with other people who are actively carrying out an insurrection.
jorge ventura
From just my perspective, from being in Minneapolis and covering the Black Lives Matter rights back in 2020, I feel like we're seeing, once again, it's just like that real life where Americans are getting psyoped in real time through mainstream media.
The language is a huge factor in this, labeling, you know, ICE as Gestapo, as Nazi.
And, you know, me being on the ground and being Latino, I'm able to kind of have these conversations and kind of blend in a little bit easier.
So just speaking to the locals on the ground, and this is just the reality of it, is 90% of white liberals, they feel like this is their white savior moment.
And they feel like when you look like me, when I'm conversating with them, they feel like they're standing up for their Somali brother and sister, and they have the privilege because they're white.
And it's just like an interesting dynamic what's going on because when you interview Somalian immigrants, they just have no connection with that fight, the way that white liberals for some reason are being psyoped into feeling like they have to rise up to this moment.
And for them, they do feel like it's a civil war.
And this is that moment.
And actually with Bovino, I mean, I don't know what you got, Cam, as your feedback on the ground, but I feel like when Bovino got let go and they moved in home and the protesters there, the agitators, they feel like that was a win for them.
And I feel like right now their morale got lifted.
tim pool
Well, what do you think?
Where are we?
andrew branca
Yeah, 100%.
I mean, a regular paramilitary, well, an insurgency, I would say.
Right now, only one side's really fighting.
It's their side is the only one fighting.
It's not quite a hot insurgency.
They're engaged in stochastic terrorism.
So they put violent language out into their brainwashed, I think, often mentally ill community.
And of course, it's stochastic because you don't know exactly who's going to do what in terms of violence, but you know the violence is going to happen.
It's just a randomized flow with a known endpoint.
It's like if you throw a rock off a building, you don't know exactly the spot on the ground it's going to hit, but you know it's going to hit the ground.
tim pool
I think it's yeah, active insurgency.
We have a single state in rebellion, I would argue.
You've got members of the state governments who are providing access to resources and helping coordinate the activity.
So it's not just a rebel group or I don't even know how you describe it.
It's active insurgency and it's state-sponsored.
andrew branca
More than one state, too.
tim pool
What other states do we know of that are actively involved?
andrew branca
Well, we have the same kind of stuff happening up in Portland, Seattle, California.
It's just not as hot as Minnesota right now.
jorge ventura
I would say Minneapolis is at a whole nother level with the organization.
I mean, I know Camosa has a lot of experience with all these cities.
I thought Portland was like the worst of the worst.
I feel like Minneapolis is at a whole nother level because their locals, just everyday people, are in the fight.
Where in Portland is more just the far left in the fringes, where here in Portland, it's like the general.
I mean, literally, as we're speaking right now, there's going to be tens of thousands doing a general strike.
tim pool
Yeah, but I agree with that, but I think the reason why we're seeing it in Minnesota this way is because Trump fought in Minnesota, because he sent 3,000 feds in and they started doing these operations.
I'd argue that the left is probably as organized more, maybe slightly more, maybe slightly less in other states.
We just don't see it because Trump isn't deploying thousands of troops, you know, thousands of feds to go and engage in these actions.
So because of that enforcement action by Trump and largely Bovino, it forced the insurgency to become active and it forced them to become very visible to everybody else.
Whereas with Portland, it's contained largely because the feds aren't doing anything.
And the same thing for Washington and California.
I'd be willing to bet these same networks have been operating throughout dozens of states already, even red states.
andrew branca
I think they all have the same training, the same tools, the same resources.
It's just a matter of whether they've hit the switch to take it to that other level.
jorge ventura
That's right.
andrew branca
I agree.
Minneapolis is at another level, but I think they can do that in any of these cities if they wanted to.
tim pool
Right.
andrew branca
So they're just focusing their efforts.
tim pool
I would argue that you said it wasn't hot.
The issue is the level of warfare that we're experiencing in the modern age, right?
This is a really good example, right?
This vest.
Peaceful observer don't shoot.
They'll put this on, punch a cop in the face, then put their hands up.
Their filmers will turn the camera on only after they punch the cop in the face.
Then when the cop throws the peaceful observer to the ground, they'll say, look, he's wearing a shirt that says peaceful observer.
Why was he attacked?
cam higby
That's what they call themselves.
So in the signal shots, what they call themselves, like the people who do the patrols, the foot patrols, stationary patrols, the dispatchers.
They're called observers.
They call themselves observers, but they're sole.
andrew branca
They're observers.
tim pool
That's not a real thing.
cam higby
But their intent and express purpose is going and just getting in the way of agents, whether it's blocking them with their cars like Renee Good or standing in front of their vehicles with their bodies or whatever it might be.
Like their stated purpose is to go and impede and stop them.
unidentified
Right.
andrew branca
And every act like that is a federal crime.
That's a Class A misdemeanor.
That's good for a year in the federal penitentiary.
jorge ventura
I do want to add, I was at the last Bovino press conference, and even in that press or Bovino, there's that moment of truth where he goes, we haven't faced this level of organization from activists in any other city but Minneapolis.
I mean, they just, you know, and going into Minneapolis, you know, they just kind of finished that operation in New Orleans where, I mean, it almost feels like they didn't face any type of uprising there.
But even Bovino said that Minneapolis was a new challenge for federal agents and border patrols.
tim pool
And he called them activists?
jorge ventura
calls them activists, agitators, also, especially because like the police chief in Minneapolis, several, I mean, they're all standing down.
So one thing Bovino even added in his last press conference, he says, hey, our agents, you know, we're conducting these operations and then when these agitators do impede the operations, we do call 911 and we're getting like no response from local law enforcement.
tim pool
We learned from the signal chance that you released that there's law enforcement in these groups.
How are they getting access to license plate databases?
cam higby
I think that's an interesting one because I think that a lot of their license plate data is based on observation from them.
So they create the database on Airtable.
tim pool
Let me pause real quick.
How do they know what car the people are renting?
They've got access to this.
cam higby
Yeah, no, I'm not contesting that.
I definitely think that it's possible that they have access to this, but I know that a lot of their database data is based on like, I saw an agent in the front seat of this car with this license plate, et cetera.
But it is extremely coordinated.
And you're right, they do have the same network in other states.
Like I know there's a signal network in Seattle.
Even in Texas, there are signal networks.
They're all over the place and they're coordinating.
tim pool
I guess the question is, does Trump have the chutzpah to actually stop these groups?
Does Kash Patel?
I'm going to go ahead and posit the answer is no, because these things have been operating for years and we've not seen any real action.
Hey, congratulations.
Don Lemon got arrested for a misdemeanor charge for going into a church in violation of the FACE Act.
It's great that they finally got him.
He got indicted by a grand jury.
But what are we going to do about the fact that there is an active insurgency?
I mean, this is sedition.
It's seditious conspiracy.
It was a couple of months after Biden got elected.
The Capitol Police rampaged through the country, locking up J Sixers, many of them getting solitary confinement for years.
And we've got these known networks.
They've been operating for years and nothing.
cam higby
Yep.
Yep.
And we have actual evidence of real coordination going on here.
I mean, I could literally join a dispatch call right now and they're hunting ICE agents in Minnesota.
tim pool
Wait, pull it up.
cam higby
Let's do it.
tim pool
Yeah, put it on the...
Let's listen to them.
cam higby
Y'all should.
tim pool
By the way, I'm listening to these people.
Do you think they'll shut it down once they realize they're live streaming?
We're live streaming what they're saying?
cam higby
Probably.
Let's go.
We could actually join.
If you really want to get frisky with it, we could be like, hey, welcome to the Tim Pool podcast.
I just got to pull it up right now.
tim pool
Well, let's just listen.
unidentified
Yeah, yeah.
cam higby
All right, let's see.
tim pool
Let's listen to what they're saying.
unidentified
Let's not say anything.
cam higby
They delete them every day, so I've got to rejoin them.
unidentified
Yep.
tim pool
Yeah, it's very disruptive that this stuff's getting published, too, because it compromises their networks.
cam higby
All right, call should be active.
Oh, well, wait, hold up.
Just give me a second.
Come back to me.
andrew branca
So did Don Lemon get charged under the KKK Act?
tim pool
No, no, just FACE Act.
andrew branca
Just FACASE, okay.
tim pool
Which, of course, as everybody knows, only included religious facilities as a, I'm going to avoid swearing, as an FU to conservatives, basically saying this law is specifically to protect abortion clinics.
Nobody was bombing churches or blocking churches, and they put it in there as a, this will shut you up.
Now it's bipartisan.
Well, the funny thing is it's blowing back in their faces, I guess.
So while he's pulling that up, let's get into the nitty-gritty.
Invoking the Insurrection Act 00:14:54
tim pool
Obviously, it doesn't really matter, to be honest.
And I hate to say this to you because your expertise is literally on self-defense and justification of use of force and all that stuff.
But we're well past that.
We're well past that.
An ICE agent could be standing in the middle of the street and he could shoot a leftist straight in the chest and there will be people on the right.
Not everybody.
The right's a bit more rational.
But they're going to be like, well, you know, he had to have had a reason.
But a better example, I suppose, would be the left's violence.
A leftist could literally draw a gun and open fire on ICE.
And when they shoot back, the left will argue that the guy was acting in self-defense first.
They'll make up a reason.
andrew branca
Sure, of course.
It's almost, you know, it's like arguing with a woman.
They always have a rationale for whatever it is they want to do.
Well, it's largely a female-driven Organization fundamentally.
The entire left is.
tim pool
But it's, but it's zealotry.
They don't need a reason.
They need a justification for recruitment.
And so they will lie about everything.
So what do we know about Preddy?
jorge ventura
Now they have Tim their justification because now Alex is their martyr.
You know, like I was just at the vigil, and the energy there is like, he is our hero.
And because of him, we're going to do like whatever it takes, keep impeding operations.
Even like yesterday, today, I'm still getting reports of folks are still impeding operations.
You know, Trump's going to have to send in like some type of security team, but they now have their martyr.
And I just think they're going to double down.
And once again, morale has been lifted in Minneapolis.
tim pool
Did you get it?
cam higby
I'm working on it.
tim pool
All right.
Libertarians, hear me.
The libertarians are really showing their true colors, yellow.
Because, haha, you guys set yourself up for that one.
Because there's no exercise of authority that they allow ever, ever.
So let's break this down.
A guy coordinates illegally to commit felony obstruction.
So we have two crimes already on Preddy's on Predty's plate.
Conspiracy against federal law enforcement, which is a felony, and obstruction of federal law enforcement, which is a felony, of which he committed these previously.
Then you have criminal damage to federal property when he attacked the vehicle.
You have felony assault on an officer when he spit, and I tracked it.
You can see the spit go into the car.
Don't know, it probably got on the door.
I don't know if it got on the actual ISO CBP guy.
So you've got felony assault on an officer, criminal damage to federal property, felony obstruction, and conspiracy to obstruct.
Those are all crimes for felonies.
You do not have.
No, no, no, no.
I'm going to ask you, do you have a legal right to bring a firearm with you for a crime you have conspired to commit?
andrew branca
Well, you can't carry a gun for unlawful purposes.
That's not what the Second Amendment is for, right?
I mean, I carry a gun every day.
If you see me at a protest, I'm probably carrying a gun.
But what I'm not doing is fighting police while I'm carrying a gun.
No one was bothering Alex Predi when he was carrying his gun, when he had a spare mag.
No one cared until he was fighting police.
And that's when it becomes a problem.
tim pool
So these libertarians are lying, arguing he was peacefully protesting.
I don't know if this is also within your area of expertise, but I think it's common sense.
If you conspire to commit a felony, you are not protesting under the First Amendment.
andrew branca
Well, conspiracy is kind of weird because it's always conspiracy to commit some other crime, right?
So that is in and of itself an independent.
But the conspiracy is, I guess I don't understand the overlap with First Amendment.
So the First Amendment, you're at some place, right?
You're holding a sign, you're shouting.
That would be legitimate.
Or you're obstructing, you're impeding, you're interfering.
Now you're committing felony crimes.
Those are different things.
Right.
The left likes to conflate all this stuff, right?
tim pool
Right, but the libertarians are doing it too.
They're arguing Predi was just protesting and he's protected and therefore the federal government murdered an innocent guy.
This is the thing about libertarians.
I'm gonna give a shout out to libertarians.
I have no problem criticizing you, but what I love about them is they fold like cheap suits the moment any real conflict arises.
So that makes it easy.
You have quite literally a circumstance where murderers, rapists, and criminals have been let into our country and Trump wants to get rid of them.
Illegal immigrants are here criminally and also need to be deported.
So this operation is under codified law, long-standing 50 plus years or longer, the INA going back, what, 100 years.
So these are lawful operations from law enforcement that were appointed by a duly elected government.
Nothing about it is fascistic.
Everybody had a chance to have their voice heard and the people of this community said, hey, guys, we want to enforce the law this way.
And then you have insurgent leftists who have expressed desire to murder, who have beaten people, who have attacked people, coordinating in an effort to obstruct federal law enforcement, which is a felony.
In some circumstances, like Predi, to assault officers, which is a felony.
In what reality are libertarians like, no, no, you are not allowed to enforce the law against someone conspiring to commit felonies and assault officers.
It's psychotic.
andrew branca
Well, we have to understand libertarianism is kind of a, I mean, it's a luxury belief.
tim pool
Yeah.
andrew branca
Right.
That can only exist in a well-ordered, well-structured first world society.
If you, it's like you can only have a nice car if you live in a nice neighborhood, right?
But if you move to a bad neighborhood, you have that nice car.
You know what's going to happen to it.
tim pool
You'll be on blood.
andrew branca
Same with libertarianism.
It doesn't function in the real world.
It doesn't function in a world where there's conflict and violence and threats, where you need order to be asserted because libertarians are essentially against the assertion of order.
tim pool
I have this bit that I want to film with the boys we're talking about.
It's a small community, a bunch of houses get broken into, and then this libertarian guy defends himself in his home, but the burglar gets away.
So the community comes together and says, well, maybe we need to appoint someone from our community to actually go around and just patrol the neighborhood to make sure those burglars don't come back.
And, you know, you might need a gun because these guys are violent.
And the libertarians like, yeah, I'll do it.
And then they're like, all right.
And they'll say, okay, it's going to be you.
You patrol every night to make sure the burglar doesn't come back.
And then as soon as he does, they're all screaming fascist, murderer, you're evil.
They're throwing eggs at him.
And it's like, you know, the libertarians are super angry because I said, I am the boot.
They got mad and they're doing something that's retarded.
Okay.
They're making these flags where it shows a snake with a MAGA, with a MAGA hat on and a ball gag saying, tread on me, Daddy.
But that doesn't quite make sense because MAGA isn't out on the street getting attacked by ICE.
So MAGA's, at bare minimum, if you want to make the flag, a guy sitting on his couch watching football while ICE goes out and stomps on other people, you could do that.
But MAGA's not being trend upon.
So they have this nonsensical argument.
So my point is, I voted for ICE and CBP to go and do exactly what it is they're doing.
A bit of it's heavy-handed.
I can be critical of that.
That's fine.
But these people are working at my behest.
I'm not being trampled on.
No ICE agent has come to me and taken my guns from me or kicked my door in.
I am not being infringed in any way.
In fact, the only people who seem to have a problem right now are leftist extremists who lost an election and criminal illegal aliens.
Those are the people being trend on.
So how about this libertarians?
You make a flag where it's a bunch of fat MAGA dudes sitting there with their bellies hanging out, yelling, keep treading, and it's ICE stomping on leftists Antifa.
That's the flag you should make.
And then you can question whether or not which side you're on or whatever.
andrew branca
I don't think Trump's been nearly heavy-handed enough.
tim pool
Yeah, I agree.
andrew branca
No, I mean, he's had more than sufficient grounds to invoke the Insurrection Act for months.
tim pool
But he's Buchanan.
I think Donald Trump is proving himself to be a Buchanan and not a Lincoln.
Lincoln put the boot down right when he got in office.
There was no waiting.
He was arresting politicians.
andrew branca
He suspended habeas corpus without the permission of Congress, which is supposed to be required.
He got permission after the fact.
tim pool
Two years later.
So he just did it.
jorge ventura
Do you think, though, Tim, that Trump doesn't want to invoke the Insurrection Act because he's worried that if he does, the optics start to really look bad for 2020 for JD Vance?
I feel like he's so worried about leaving JD Vance in a good standing that he's home in his changing the outer.
Yeah, yeah.
tim pool
I agree.
Just like Buchanan.
Placate the other side, try and tone the temperature down and be nice to the people who are losing their effing minds.
And so Trump is playing FTSE.
I said he either needs to stand down or suit up because this half measure they're pulling off in Minnesota is generating the agit prop that the left needs.
Wearing these stupid fake things.
I'm a peaceful observer.
Then they lob a brick at your face.
And then when you actually, so what do we see?
We saw this exact scenario play out at the home two suites where a leftist journalist chucked a brick at a fed's face from the Bureau of Prisons, presumably breaking his nose.
He's covered in blood.
So he pulls out his less lethal and he walks out and points it.
And the only video they show is the agent pointing a weapon at journalists.
Trump half measures are giving them all the recruiting tools they need so they can bring more retards into the fray.
So I said, stand down, do nothing, let Minnesota burn.
You got to stand down or suit up.
And suit up means Insurrection Act, shut it down, no more bricks, no more protests.
Nothing happens.
My proposal is this.
Actually, the smartest thing Trump can do, visit Minneapolis.
That's it.
Trump should announce, I am deeply saddened by the conflict that we're seeing in the streets of Minneapolis.
The American people don't want this.
The American people want peace.
They want order.
They want a good economy.
They want stability.
I am going to personally go to Minneapolis to meet with the mayor and the governor to find a solution so that we can find real accountability and stop the violence.
What happens when he does that?
Secret Service, National Guard, federal police come in and they shut the city down.
Checkpoints are everywhere, and he doesn't need to assert anything.
He doesn't need to say, I'm going to crush you, leftists.
He doesn't need to call in the National Guard or invoke the Insurrection Act.
It will just naturally play out.
This will stop all protests and riots just by him being there.
It will take away any opportunity for agitprop because Trump is not crushing the protests.
He's not shutting them down.
He's literally just visiting to bring peace.
That's the play.
He won't do it.
He's miserable at it.
Bovino and Noam saying that Predty was going to massacre law enforcement Edin Miller was miserably bad PR.
They screwed the whole thing up and they're continuing to screw it up.
And you know what?
I will give them this.
Who am I?
What the F do I know?
I don't know what's going on behind the scenes.
I'm just some dude on the internet complaining.
Maybe I'm wrong about everything.
But it does, I can say this, they are losing it.
Maybe I'm wrong about what they should do, but they are losing.
cam higby
I think we got a call.
tim pool
All right, let's get it.
cam higby
All right, one second.
Police have a call going.
See, the problem is I don't, like the other ones I'm in don't have calls going because I scared the crap out of them yesterday by posting their links on Twitter.
So they're like, but what we could do is just call them as well.
tim pool
Do they know your number?
But then you got to talk to them or what?
cam higby
Yeah, if they join.
We'll see.
tim pool
I think you're better off trying to join someone else's call so we can hear what they naturally are doing.
And if you can't, we don't want to spook them.
cam higby
Yeah, that's the problem.
Like I said, they're just so scared because I've been posting I've evolved from posting screenshots and just straight up posting their links.
So then they get invaded with people spamming Trump gifts in their chats.
jorge ventura
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
cam higby
Yeah.
andrew branca
And one thing about the Insurrection Act that we think it sounds extreme, and it would be portrayed as extreme if he were to invoke it because they haven't properly laid the groundwork for the public to be accepting of its invocation.
But the only thing weird about the invocation, the Insurrection Act in 2026, is we're in the longest period of American history right now where it has not been invoked.
It's been invoked dozens of times by dozens of presidents over America's history.
It's unusual that we've gone since 1992 without invoking it.
It's almost overdue.
tim pool
Just because.
jorge ventura
But if there was a time that the President Trump was going to invoke the Insurrection Act, it should have been during the Black Lives Matter rights because that was absolute chaos in several cities for months on months in.
And the president never stepped in.
He never stepped in Portland or any of those kind of major cities where we saw that violence.
In Seattle, it took someone dying for the local law enforcement to come in and break down chazz.
But if there was going to be any time, it should have been in 2020.
I just think that right now, Trump is worried about political numbers.
He knows Christy Noam, her messaging just has been all over the place with Stephen Miller.
And I just think the optics of him doing it, I just think he's thinking too much about 2028.
But just from being on the ground, it just seems like he should have done it in 2020.
And I just don't see any scenario where President Trump's going to do it now.
andrew branca
He was a different president, too, though, right?
I mean, that first term, President Trump, and this term, President Trump.
jorge ventura
I would say like two different things.
If anything, with his White House, he probably has more backing with Stephen Miller and JD Vance to invoke it.
And I still don't think he'll do it.
tim pool
I'll throw it back to Lincoln Buchanan again.
And the diehard Trump people, he can never do anything wrong.
And it's just so cringe because if you believe that Trump is invincible and never fails, you're going to lose.
You're just going to lose if you can't recognize where you're getting crushed.
And as you mentioned, the left is celebrating what's going on in Minnesota.
Tom Holman even said, I'm not here because things have been going well.
He's outright saying they sent me in to try and clean this up, and he's trying to turn the temperature down.
cam higby
I do think there's kind of a play here, though.
JD Vance said in his speech when he visited Minnesota that the reason there are so many federal agents in Minnesota is because the regular operating teams who are going out and detaining illegal immigrants can't operate because they're being impeded every time they leave.
That's what these signal chats are for.
They find the agents.
They have dozens of people in each sector at any given time, each part of the city, that are just hunting these agents down.
Now, MPD and state police are actually doing their job.
So when he's talking about drawing forces out of Minnesota, I think this might be a play by the administration to make them feel like they're getting a win when in reality, it's going to be easier for them to carry out operations.
But I agree.
At the very least, Trump should have used 10 U.S.C. 12407 and deployed the National Guard.
I support the Insurrection Act, but at the very least, 10 U.S. Code 12406 deployed the National Guard.
tim pool
Immediately.
What you're describing is what Trump did in 2020 with the George Floyd riots.
Let the cities burn.
And then what happens is the people who are concerned about the violence are saying Trump can't do anything.
So why support him?
Let the Cities Burn 00:07:12
tim pool
Your Republican politicians aren't going to help you.
Trump's not going to put down the riots.
So why vote for Trump?
And a lot of people probably thought, well, this is happening under Trump.
Why would I continue to vote for this?
I want change.
And we're not going to sit here and pretend the average normie voter knows exactly what's going on.
The typical swing at the macro level is just, if it's bad, I want the other party.
They're not sitting there going, well, will Joe Biden actually do it or is Trump?
They're just thinking, well, the Republicans aren't doing it.
Maybe the Democrats will.
andrew branca
But even if they won't vote for the other party, they just won't show up.
And that's the problem.
You win elections when your team shows up.
If your team is just disheartened, they're not even seeing incremental wins.
They're not seeing a future that looks more positive.
They just stay home.
tim pool
Yeah, I think Trump is too focused on the 2020 election stuff.
I like it.
I like what he's doing with Fulton County and all that.
But the play they're making right now, I think, has it's the right's fairly split.
Libertarians are largely anti-Trump on this one, and they're siding with liberals.
Then you've got the disaffected liberal types, people like in my camp, that are just saying Trump's too weak.
He's not doing anything.
And then you've got the diehard, Trump can do no wrong people that are just saying Trump's right about everything no matter what.
I'm like, okay.
jorge ventura
And then right now, Tim, you got the normies taking in just all the negative headlines from Minneapolis.
I mean, I would say right now, politically, it's a disaster for Republicans getting into these midterms.
tim pool
Because they can't, because they only just do half measures.
Because they don't, you know, I'll play it like this, because I've talked about this before.
The right and conservatives don't have the capacity to win against evil because I should, let me rephrase this.
It is substantially more difficult to defeat evil using good than it is to be evil.
And the right, and to their credit, this is not meant to be disrespectful, is unwilling to use tactics that win wars in the way that the Democrats, the Uniparty, and the Liberal Economic Order have historically done.
That is, the right won't ever put on don't shoot peaceful observer and walk around wearing these things, creating the implication that ICE is murdering random people.
The intention is to create a narrative in the minds of people who don't know what's going on.
So when they see a group of people with their hands up wearing these vests and they go, what's that all about?
A leftist will say, didn't you know Trump's killing peaceful protesters?
That's why they have to wear the don't shoot.
jorge ventura
And this is always going to be on the front page of New York Times.
You know, this hands up, don't shoot.
tim pool
The right.
The example I always give, May 29th, 2020, thousands of leftists tear the barricades down at the White House, injure 100-plus federal agents, firebomb the White House grounds in St. John's church, and Trump played it straight.
Barr and Trump send the police in, shut the riot down.
The narrative that emerged, Trump brutalizes peaceful protesters after being terrified and hiding in his bunker.
What would have happened, honest question, what would have happened if Trump said, stand down?
jorge ventura
He would have burned down the White House.
Actually, Tim, I was there that night, and they had to put Trump under a bunker under the White House.
tim pool
They would have burned the White House down?
What then would the narrative be the next day?
cam higby
Leftists burned the White House.
jorge ventura
Republicans are weak.
Weak.
tim pool
The leftists have burned, by all means.
And you know what Trump then says?
You're right.
I'm sorry.
I was weak.
These leftist terrorists are much stronger than any of us realized.
I was reading the New York Times every, don't get me wrong, I don't think Trump has the wherewithal for a narrative like this.
But what I would do is I'd come out and say, I apologize to the American people.
I read the New York Times every day.
I read the Washington Post and I watched MSNBCA as they told me that this was mostly peaceful.
And so when these people showed up at the White House out of a concern for potential injury or great bodily harm to peaceful protesters, I instructed our law enforcement to stand down.
And I was wrong.
The threat of leftist terrorism exceeded what even the New York Times or I could have fathomed.
And for this, we have lost St. John's Church and the White House.
But mark my words, I will not be weak ever again.
We are forming a task force with the Capitol Police to hunt down these terrorists and bring them to justice.
Congress would have no choice but to unanimously fund the operations where Trump wipes out all of the far left.
cam higby
Tim wants the remaining Jedi world.
andrew branca
Sounds like a good movie.
tim pool
Trump comes out with his face burned from the fire, saying the attempt on my life has left me scarred and disfigured.
andrew branca
He'll be dressed like Bruce Willis and diehard.
tim pool
I'm not giving you an opinion on what could have been.
You're saying, Tim, but how do you know any of that would happen?
Because what I'm saying, I am literally describing to you January 6th.
Trump asked for the National Guard and the Democrats went no.
Nancy Pelosi said no.
And their Capitol Police on video standing outside standing down.
They are Metro PD giving guided tours to people, helping them get in the building, opening doors even.
And one man saying, I don't agree with it, but I respect it, taking selfies with people.
So as far as these J6ers knew, not the rioters, by all means the ones who fought cops, we know they go to jail.
You fight cops, you go to judge.
That's wrong.
On this side of the building, when the cops were holding the doors open, taking pictures, and when the shaman got a guided escort into the Senate chambers, how did these people think that they were doing anything wrong when they walked in an open door, stayed between the velvet ropes, and the police said, right this way, sir?
And what did they do?
They formed a task force.
They formed a committee.
They put people in prison.
They hunted them down for years.
They gave some people 20 years in prison for this.
Trump and the Republicans play everything honestly.
There's violent rioters.
Let's arrest them.
The left says, no, no, do nothing.
Let the rioters have their way.
That way we can go and blame Trump for it and arrest him.
andrew branca
I mean, it's, but January 6th is a real issue, right?
Because we say the right's not willing to do this kind of stuff with the vest like the left does.
And it's definitely a problem.
You know, victory goes to the side that's determined to win over the side that just wants to be left alone, right?
And that is a difference between the left and right.
But when the right does things that look anything like that or could even be misrepresented as that kind of wear the vest thing, they get treated like the January 6th protesters get treated.
tim pool
And that's only because the right is unwilling to do what the left does.
Trump is not going around and locking up these known insurgent cells.
Why not?
He's the president.
He could even just go on TV right now.
He could issue a press conference saying and show he could put poster board behind him showing the insurgent groups, showing all of this, and he can say, we have uncovered a network of terrorist, domestic terrorist extremists who are planning violent assaults against our law enforcement.
And he can show poster boards, take them down and say the DOJ will not tolerate this and the FBI will begin making moves.
He could do that right now.
The left does this.
andrew branca
He can make arrests, but he can't keep.
He can't camp.
tim pool
He should just be our PR game and he's not.
Deadly Force Debate 00:13:04
jorge ventura
Right, Taylor.
I think Cam should be our FBI director since he's beating Batil to these signal chats.
tim pool
Harmeet got Don Lemon arrested.
I'll give her that.
But Don Lemon's at Small Fry.
He committed a crime that's a slap on the wrist.
You get more.
There is a bigger penalty for driving on a suspended license than what Don Lemon did.
So you're right when you say that if the right acts out of line in any way, they'll get crushed.
Yes, by the left.
The left is willing to be evil to an extreme degree.
The right is not willing to do this.
And again, I'm not ragging on the right for being good.
I'm saying when you are beset on all sides by demons who don't believe in the rules and you're sitting there saying, well, no matter what, I'll fight by the rules.
Then you know the way to describe it is let us all cherish the noble rabbit.
A vegan, he harms no one.
He does not violate the non-aggression principle.
He minds his own business.
And he gets carried away in the jaws of the wolf who doesn't care about the rights of the rabbit.
So we can sit here and just be like, well, at least we are honorable.
That's great.
We'll write about the honor you had in the history books after your culture is wiped out.
You'll be a footnote in page 73.
jorge ventura
Pin dropped.
tim pool
Let's talk about Predi and Renee Goode, though.
And of course, Kathy Griffin, she made a video today where she said, two innocent people murdered.
Let's start with Renee Goode from the perspective of self-defense.
First, the question is, was she innocent?
andrew branca
Was she innocent of what?
Of trying to kill the officer?
tim pool
Well, obviously.
andrew branca
Because it doesn't really matter.
tim pool
No, no, no.
That's not what I'm saying.
andrew branca
She was clearly engaged in the same kind of interference, obstruction that the right to do.
tim pool
We can remove the political from it because we know that innocent to Kathy Griffin means literally nothing.
But I'm going to say, was she or was she not in the process of committing a crime?
andrew branca
It seems likely to me, but it doesn't matter in terms of the justification of the crime.
tim pool
But I'm not asking about the justification for the murder.
I'm saying we're going to start from, was she innocent?
andrew branca
She was definitely engaged in interfering with federal law enforcement.
At a minimum, that's a class A misdemeanor good for a year in a federal penitentiary.
tim pool
So by any reasonable approach to a woman who coordinated with a group for the purpose of obstructing federal law enforcement, if we want to go as light as possible, this is a misdemeanor.
If we want to go as heavy as possible, she actually has a couple different felonies.
The first of which is the conspiracy against federal law enforcement for which Waltz, Frey, and Elson have been subpoenaed.
And the second is felony obstruction of an officer, the act itself.
You can then add, now this one is where it gets a little bit more contentious with the debatus, felony assault on an officer.
So crime, the probability, so we can say this, I mean, the woman lost her life.
I think it is definitive and beyond a reasonable doubt from watching those videos and knowing about this network.
She was committing felonies.
I think that is a reasonable assessment.
She conspired to and did obstruct law enforcement.
The next question is, now we get into the justification for the shoot.
In a standard legal context, outside of anything we know about ICE or Stop ICE or whatever's going on, if there is an agent for an officer or agent for any reason in front of the vehicle, did she act in such a way that he was legally justified in shooting her?
andrew branca
He would have been legally justified if he wasn't an officer.
If you or I were in front of our vehicle and she engaged in the same conduct, we would also have a reasonable perception that she was presenting as an imminent threat of deadly unlawful force.
And we could use deadly force to defend ourselves from that car attack, that apparent car attack.
It doesn't matter whether she was actually trying to attack him with the car.
All that matters is did he have a reasonable perception that he was being attacked with the vehicle?
And that's incontestably true.
Anybody in that position, the tires spin up, the car lunges forward, you're in front of the car.
She sees you.
She's looking right at you.
Anybody would feel that they were being threatened by that vehicle.
tim pool
And the left omits that the tires are pointed slightly to the left when they first spin out on the ice.
I don't even know if the officer could see the but that shows the intention of Rene Goode as the driver.
I would argue that I don't think she was trying to kill him, but she had reckless disregard for his well-being in her attempt to escape.
The wheels are tilted slightly left and they spin out quickly on the ice, indicating she accelerates.
What that means is Jonathan Ross heard the acceleration.
For sure.
He sees a vehicle.
He can't see the tires and he hears the engine rev. So he goes for his gun.
But the question that people bring up is the first shot goes to the windshield, but that's likely not the shot that killed her.
According to the autopsy report, it was a bullet, I believe, the side of her head, indicating that it was the two shots through the side of the window.
Does that mean anything legally?
andrew branca
Not particularly.
There's two rationales for justification for those two shots.
One is there's a reaction time that occurs in self-defense.
You know, before you start using force in self-defense, you have to perceive the threat.
You have to evaluate it.
You have to make a decision.
I want to defend myself.
You present your gun.
You press a trigger.
All that takes time.
It also takes time to stop using force.
And the law recognizes this.
When it's a rapid sequence of shots like that was, it's really one use of force event.
There's a slight delay in starting and there's a slight delay in ending.
But another justification is he's privileged to use deadly force to defend not just himself, but any other innocent person that could be threatened by this woman using her car as a weapon.
And there were plenty of other people around.
tim pool
In a law enforcement context, my understanding is that the standard protocol is to shoot until the threat is stopped.
andrew branca
It's neutralized.
Right.
tim pool
Which means it doesn't, at this point, with the vehicle hitting him, and it did, we know about his injury, whether they want to admit it or not, the left, I guess their argument is that the doctors conspired with the federal government to make up fake injuries.
I doubt it.
I don't think his injuries were particularly severe.
He probably had bruising, but he was hit.
The threat is not neutralized if the woman is still driving the car.
andrew branca
Right.
That's actually a third legal rationale.
So as a fleeing felon, a dangerous fleeing felon, you're allowed to use deadly force to keep a dangerous fleeing felon from departing the scene.
If she had been standing, not in a car, but she had a gun and she shot at him and missed and then ran away with her gun, he'd be privileged to shoot her to prevent her from fleeing with that deadly weapon.
In this case, of course, her deadly weapon wasn't a gun, but it was a car.
tim pool
There was a video I saw where a guy is, I don't know exactly how it went down, but these are videos.
You get all these body cam footage videos on Instagram.
There's a guy who's holding one by the neck.
I don't believe he's armed.
And he's walking backwards because there's a cop.
I think he was trying to rob a liquor store.
Maybe there's a server warrant.
He's backing out while the cop is screaming at him to let go of the woman.
He exits the building, throws the woman, and turns to run, and the cop shoots him in the back, killing him.
And my understanding is that was found to be justified because he had already expressed intent to murder.
And so the perception from the officer was choking out this woman and dragging her by the neck is a threat against her life.
He needs to stop this guy now who's fleeing because regardless of whether you have a weapon, he's expressed intent to murder somebody.
andrew branca
Yeah, so the famous Supreme Court cases, Tennessee versus Garner, Graham v. Connor, they don't say you can't shoot a criminal who's running away.
They say you can't shoot a criminal who's running away, who's apparently no longer a threat to anybody and did not commit a crime of violence in the first place.
That kid who maybe tried to steal something from a car and now is fleeing the police and climbs over a fence, you can't just shoot that kid off the fence.
But if they committed a crime of violence or they're a continuing threat, you can use deadly force to stop them from fleeing.
tim pool
I think in Texas you can, right?
andrew branca
Well, you're thinking of defense of property law in Texas.
So Texas is the one state where someone steals your personal property and they're fleeing with it.
The law says you can use deadly force to prevent them from fleeing with your property.
And I've seen that applied and I've seen it work.
But just remember, I always have to caution people.
You do this, you kill someone, you could be put in front of a jury and the jury could just decide they don't like that law and finger anyway.
jorge ventura
Well, I wanted to ask you because this is one thing I've been seeing in at least corporate media is they're attacking Jonathan for the two shots on the side.
Like, you know, just legally, I don't know if you could give me a breakdown on if that impacts anything on self-defense.
I've been seeing it scrutinized all over the media.
From a legal standpoint, I don't know anything about this stuff.
andrew branca
Yeah, so first of all, they're always trained to fire more than one shot.
jorge ventura
Okay.
andrew branca
So nine millimeter round, just not very powerful.
You can't count on it.
And by the way, when you're shooting at a real human being, you don't know where the bullets are hitting.
You don't know if you're having a disabling effect.
You don't even know if you're hitting the person.
A lot of shots fired by law enforcement just miss completely.
So they're trained to fire two or three shots as a single use of force event.
And that's exactly what he did here.
So that's all happening in about a second and a half, maybe 1.4 seconds, 1.2 seconds.
It's quite quick.
And again, there's that delay reaction, and you make the decision to stop.
It takes time for that to actually take effect.
And she's still a threat to others.
And she's a fleeing felon with a deadly weapon.
Lots of justifications for those last two shots.
tim pool
So there's a lot to break down the Alex Predi circumstance, especially with the new video that went viral, where we now know that he was actually violent and was screaming assault MFR.
But starting from the first video, give us your assessments on this use of force circumstance.
andrew branca
Yeah, every bit of force the officers used from beginning to end was lawful in that video.
From the moment where they're ordering that woman back, I'll call her white coat, right?
You see the CBP officer verbally ordering her to create more space from the act of law enforcement action they're engaged in.
She disobeys that order.
She stops.
He's telling her, get on the sidewalk.
She doesn't get on the sidewalk.
Well, if they don't obey your verbal lawful orders, you get to escalate to non-deadly force.
So he shoves her onto the sidewalk.
That's permissible.
And then Predi comes in and makes contact with him.
The moment he does that, he's committed interference with contact, which is a federal felony good for eight years in prison.
Wow.
It doesn't have to qualify as an assault, an intent to harm.
It just has to be interference with contact.
Now he's committed.
Predi has committed an eight-year federal felony in the presence of all those officers.
Of course, they're going to make an arrest.
And it was an act of violence on one of their fellow officers.
So they move in now to make the arrest.
They go hands-on, they grab him, they get him on the ground, try to get him on the ground.
And now he's violently resisting arrest.
Not only is that a resisting arrest charge, it's continuing acts of interference with federal law enforcement with contact.
Then they hear the shouts of gun, gun, gun, gun.
And by the way, a lot of people say the officer in the green shirt who extends his, like they say, well, he was looking right there.
He was looking at the gun as it was taken off his hip, so he knew he didn't have the, that's not how the human eye works.
The human eye is not like a photograph where everything's in focus at the same time, and no matter what you look at, it's in focus.
The human eye, when you look at one object, I look at you, you're in focus, but Tim's not.
They're not.
Other things aren't.
And I could be looking over Tim's shoulder at that fake tree behind them, and that tree's in focus, but Tim's not, even though my eyes are aligned with him.
I suspect that officer was actually looking over Predty's shoulder because his hands would have been in front of him.
And the hands are normally what's the threat.
You want to see what's going on with the suspect's hand.
tim pool
And what did he have?
andrew branca
And didn't even see the gun coming off the hip.
tim pool
What did he have in his hand, Predty?
andrew branca
Well, he had an object in his hand.
We don't know what it was.
It could have been his phone.
It could have been another magic.
tim pool
It was a phone.
But as far as the officer can tell, a series of events occurred where they hear gun, gun, gun.
Predi reaches around where the holster was, spins around holding a black object as a shot rings out.
A shot was fired, and we believe it may have been the SIG discharged or something.
Some have said that it was an agent panic shooting the ground.
We don't know.
But if you're a law enforcement officer, someone is actively resisting arrest.
Someone yells gun, gun, gun, a shot rings out as he spins around with a black object.
You have a tenth of a second to decide whether or not you're going to wait to see if he shoots and kills you or to neutralize the threat.
unidentified
Yep.
andrew branca
You'll get shot 999 times out of a thousand because you've created a reasonable perception, maybe not reality, right?
We know he didn't actually have a gun in his hand.
But these officers aren't required to make perfect decisions in self-defense.
They're required to make reasonable decisions.
tim pool
And actually, you're required not to obstruct and resist arrest.
andrew branca
Yes, of course.
You have an absolute legal duty to comply with lawful arrests.
jorge ventura
Were you surprised, at least with the news, that after the shooting, the two, because we got this from the Bovino last press conference, that the two officers that did shoot were still working.
They were just reassigned outside of Minneapolis.
And then I believe, I don't know if maybe media pressure, but then two days later, we find out that the two officers that shot are now on administrative leave.
andrew branca
Most common thing in the world.
If you're involved in a shooting, you're put on administrative leave.
tim pool
And they probably did like a trauma assessment or something.
They do like a psyche val.
andrew branca
Yeah, they'll do that.
They'll do PTSD checks.
And I mean, you just shot another person.
That's not common even among law enforcement or military to have that happen.
And it's just, you know, you want to make sure if you have an officer who is going sideways, you don't just put him back on the street with a gun again, right?
You want to be safe from that perspective too.
But every officer who's cleared for a shooting was also put on administrative leave.
I mean, it's just a common procedure.
More Is Coming 00:09:47
tim pool
Yep.
Well, I think it's going to get worse.
I think more is going to happen.
I think the left is largely comprised, like the root of the ideological divide, and I mean like the bare base, is emotionally driven individuals versus factually driven individuals.
The left doesn't care what's true.
They care how they feel.
And the right, you know, as Ben Shapiro said, facts don't care about your feelings.
But the inverse has always been true that feelings don't care about your facts.
And these are the two factions.
This results in two greater ideological moral worldviews, the multicultural democracy of the left and the constitutional republic of the right.
It doesn't matter what's true.
You have a zombie horde, as I would describe on the left.
They don't care if it's justified or not.
They care that bad guy did bad thing.
And it doesn't matter if bad guy is allowed to do bad thing.
It doesn't matter.
They are going to recruit on this, and the hyperpolarization is going to get worse.
We're seeing it geographically, and now we're seeing it in the redistricting efforts.
There's not going to be swing districts anymore.
It's literally just going to be bulk power at the federal level.
I feel like this only ends with one conclusion.
Massachusetts, for instance, has 40% Republican population, but they have no Republican seats.
andrew branca
All of New England, that's true.
tim pool
All of New England.
And so they're doing this now in every other state.
And the projection that we're seeing for the midterm is there's no swing states anymore.
I'm sorry, there's no swing districts at all.
It's literally just solid blue with a little light blue and solid with a little light red.
So what's going to happen is it's guaranteed whoever asserts the power in Congress will get it.
andrew branca
Well, I think the dynamic's going to be different.
I agree with everything you just said.
There will not be swing districts anymore.
But I think the number of blue districts is going to be reduced.
And the number of red districts is going to be increased.
An individual district won't swing, but that dynamic, the numbers each has, because we have to.
To keep in mind, you talk to the people you describe who are just emotional and can't be rational.
That's definitely the foot troops of the progressive fascist left.
It's different for their leadership.
Their leadership recognizes they are facing existential political annihilation.
If we had legitimate voting, if we had a legitimate census, if we didn't have 90 million illegal migrants in our country, they would not get 30% of the vote in this country.
So if those things are fixed, they are annihilated as a political party.
tim pool
The only problem is that requires a 2030 census, and there's no guarantee that we get there.
In fact, by all metrics, it looks like we won't.
Democrats will take the House in 2026.
And then should they win in 2028, depending on how things go, they're going to flood the country and they're going to solve it.
It's over.
But all they need to do right now is win the midterms and they obstruct Trump and create an opportunity to win 2028.
andrew branca
I agree.
So for America to win, we have to win every battle.
We have to do all those things I described.
Not necessarily all at once, but within a pretty approximate period.
If we lose the midterms and lose the next presidential election, the country's over.
I'm part of 20 million, they say.
President, whoever, Gavin Newsom, he'll bring in 200 million.
Why wouldn't he?
tim pool
If the Republicans treat the midterms like an election, it's over already, and y'all should be heading for El Salvador as fast as you can.
jorge ventura
I think JD Vance is in deep water.
I think right now it's likely that Gavin Newsome wins.
And just from my perspective, if I'm Marco Rubio, I'm meeting with JD Vance and I'm telling J.D., if you don't want to be on my ticket, then I'm running against you in 2020.
I think Marco Rubio has a way better shot than JD Vance.
He's a way better statesmith.
He's killing it as Secretary of State.
And Marco Rubio could also pull those conservative Latino votes that Republicans sometimes do need to get over the finish line.
That is my perspective.
If I'm Rubio, I'm telling Vance, I'm running in 2028.
I'm not waiting for you.
I think JD is in a very, very shaky spot against Newsome.
tim pool
I actually agree largely.
I'm not entirely sure, but I know the Democrats have a much harder time, have had a much harder time going after Rubio because he's kind of vanilla pudding.
He's done these jobs.
He's got the experience.
He's had success.
And he approaches them from, you see these hearings that he's at.
It's not overly antagonistic.
It's difficult for them to pin him down like they do with Trump when Trump said.
jorge ventura
Tim, have you seen those with Noah?
tim pool
Rubio, just, he's got all these jobs.
He's got a lot of good PR and he's coming off a bit like your generic conservative statesman.
And that Democrats have a hard time turning him into the villain.
cam higby
Yeah, I don't know.
I mean, I think that JD Vance, I think that Marco Rubio would do the job better.
I think JD Vance would run a better campaign.
I think the whole like all the stuff they throw out, oh, he has sex with couches, right?
That doesn't work.
jorge ventura
No, no, it doesn't work.
cam higby
With moderates, with people on the right, it doesn't work.
It doesn't convince anybody of anything.
It doesn't make people not vote for him.
That is just like a thing on the left.
Like they all joke about it.
But I don't think those slander campaigns actually work with real voters.
So JD Vance is very well spoken.
He's a fantastic debater.
He's a great speaker, and he has good ideas.
I think that Marco Rubio is probably a little bit more competent as the actual president.
tim pool
I think Vance has more X Factor.
jorge ventura
I think one of the things that I think is a weakness for JD Vance is sometimes when he speaks, he's speaking too much to like the online right on X, where he's not speaking to America.
And sometimes that's one thing about JD is like, you know, to win some of these votes, sometimes you're not speaking to buddies, but that's you're speaking to like a normie.
And like some like the thing is like right after the Renee Nicole Good situation, no matter how you feel about it, like that was a sense at a time for the country and JD just came like aggressive and like maybe like I said, the base loves it.
Maga's always going to be a lot of fun.
Even pushing the narrative of I don't know how he's going to do it with the normie.
tim pool
Pushing the credit he wants to massacre people was a massive blunder.
Huge mistake.
cam higby
Yeah, I agree.
I agree with that.
I think though, JD Vance being involved in like meme culture and on like everyone's online, even the boomers are online, right?
I think that just shows that he's personable.
Like the Halloween costume was hilarious.
jorge ventura
That was good.
cam higby
I don't know a single person who didn't think that was funny.
It just shows that he's a person and he's personable and he has a personality and he's not just like some blank slate politician who's a loser.
andrew branca
So I really like Marco Rubio and I didn't think much of him as a senator.
I thought he was a very squishy rhino.
He's definitely been hitting it out of the park with Secretary of State.
But his circumstances really give him an advantage in being able to score wins.
I mean, that's why Trump's big wins have been in foreign policy because he has much more freedom of action in foreign policy.
These federal judges can inhibit him much less.
He's much less reliant on Congress.
He can just do things.
And so he's doing those things.
I think that's why Trump's really focused his efforts there because that's where he can get ground.
That's where he can get wins.
The trouble is in America, you don't win elections on foreign policy.
You just don't.
People ultimately, when they walk into the voting booth, they don't give a damn about Venezuela or any of this rest of this stuff.
They want to know, how am I doing right now?
How do I foresee my prospects for getting a job, paying my mortgage, my kids advancing themselves?
And the foreign policy just goes away.
So even if Marco Rubio just continues to knock it out of the park like he's been doing, I'm not sure that carries towards winning a domestic election.
jorge ventura
That's true.
I think another sleeper, too, is like DeSantis is coming again.
Like, I think people have kind of forgotten like DeSantis is not part of that MAGA camp with JD and Marco.
And I think DeSantis is going to come in and he's going to throw his hat in.
It's going to make another interesting kind of dynamic with DeSantis in there.
I think he's coming again.
cam higby
I think that would be so bad for the election if DeSantis joined the race against like JD or Marco, especially if it's JD.
I think it would actually maybe worse if it's if Marco is a frontrunner.
I think it would just tear the party apart and we'd lose.
You have two, like there are a lot of DeSantis loyalists in Florida who will vote for him, and it's just going to divide everybody and screw us over.
I mean, we're already at the point where I don't even know if we're going to win in 2028.
I honestly think that the chances are kind of low.
unidentified
Right.
cam higby
Right.
So if we divide ourselves more than we already have, we lose.
tim pool
Well, one of the big conspiracy theories is that Trump was always just a pressure release valve in the rat hope experiments of American politics.
That is, for those that aren't familiar, the experiment was done where they took a cylinder full of water and put a rat in it.
And then after a few minutes, the rat just gave up and then drowned.
They did it again, put the rat in the tube of water.
And as it was about to drown, they picked it up, let it rest, dried it off, then put it back in.
The second time it went in, it swam for hours because it believed if it just held out long enough, salvation was coming.
And so one argument is that Trump was only ever allowed to win by the machine state.
I don't know if you actually believe these deeper conspiracies.
So that pro-American constitutional Republicanist type individuals will believe it's possible to win and keep holding out hope instead of just giving up, which could result in insurgency, economic collapse, or just social disorder.
So long as the right believes that there is an electoral path towards securing our country and our traditions, they won't go crazy.
andrew branca
Pretty dark.
tim pool
I'm not saying it's true, but people believe it.
Because Trump seems to be only ever slowly losing.
A lot of great things have happened.
Don't get me wrong.
You know, shutting down the USAD was massive, but it seems like he's only ever just slowly losing.
jorge ventura
He's just in a tough spot also with these ice rates because the thing is Trump right now has one of the biggest political wins in history of shutting down the border in record time.
But because of the optics of the ICE rate and the way that Noam went about it with Bovino of being just very aggressive and confrontational, that's the story right now.
We're not really even focusing on a big political win.
cam higby
They don't even have a choice to be confrontational or not, though.
Dark Beliefs About Immigration 00:15:16
cam higby
I mean, you have a many thousands person network in just one place that they're carrying out an operation impeding them everywhere they go.
I mean, these people are literally, they're doing it right now.
They're in the chat right now, calling out intersections, dropping license plates.
You can see it right here.
Like they're just, hey, I'm over here.
I see an ice agent here.
Two masked agents in the front.
They're just doing it all day.
If you go downtown Minneapolis or southside Minneapolis and look for federal agents, you can't find them on your own because they literally stop, grab somebody and take them.
They do their work very, very quickly.
But once you get in the signal chats, it's very easy to find them because you have 1,000 people just on southside Minneapolis dedicating their entire day for eight hours to finding federal agents, which makes it very easy.
Right.
So like you don't have a choice but to be aggressive and confrontational when you have at any time you do an operation, 200 people stopping and impeding you.
andrew branca
I mean, and we talk about getting these domestic wins and deporting these illegal migrants in America is going to contribute to real domestic wins.
I just saw a headline this morning.
Rents in LA are like dropped to the lowest point they've been in four years.
These are all human beings, right?
They need to consume the things that human beings need.
They compete with American citizens for every scarce American resource, housing, healthcare, employment, education, infrastructure, food, everything.
That's why the cost of living is so high.
We brought in tens of millions of additional people.
We're not producing that much more of that stuff.
So we all have to compete with them for that.
And in many cases, not only are we competing with them for the resource, but they're buying the resource with our money.
I mean, they're getting government benefits to pay for Section 8 housing, SNAP benefits, free education and public schools.
All of this is being paid for with our taxes.
You take those people out of the equation.
Now, we say we have a housing shortage.
We don't have a housing shortage.
If you take out the people who are consuming the housing, if you clear out the quickest way to have 20 million homes immediately available is to clear out 50 million illegals.
cam higby
There's always this argument that you hear, especially from like the libertarian right.
Illegal immigrants pay taxes.
They work in this country.
They contribute to the country.
This is true.
They do work in this country and they do pay taxes.
But there is a House Committee on Budget study conducted in conjunction with the Center for Immigration Studies that found the net fiscal drain when you offset it by taxes.
The equation is literally just social welfare used minus taxes paid, $68,000 per illegal immigrant is the net fiscal drain on the U.S. economy per person.
The idea that they're not draining the system is just fundamentally false.
Now, multiply that by however many illegals are here.
They're absolutely draining the system.
andrew branca
Yeah, the nation's just being looted.
It's an enormous redirection of resources from taxpaying, productive, employed American citizens to people from the third world who come here.
I mean, these Somalians, for example, in Minnesota, they look around.
It's like that movie where you put the sunglasses on and everyone's a lizard person.
When they look around at America, they see America in a very different way than an American does.
We're a high trust society, first world society.
We have very low guardrails on most of our social service programs because we don't need them because we're not trying to constantly exploit the system.
If you had to have high guardrails, you couldn't have the program because it would be much too inefficient if we just assume everyone's trying to rip off the system.
There's no way you'd be able to do it.
And that makes first world nations exceptionally vulnerable to exploitation by people from low trust third world societies because what they see is opportunity.
If you ask these Somalians honestly, they would tell you, we don't even think we did anything wrong.
The rules say I'm allowed to have a daycare in my house.
I filled out all the paperwork.
I checked all the boxes.
Sure, I'm providing daycare to my sister's kids who lives next door and she's providing daycare to mine, but the rules don't say we can't do that.
We're not committing fraud.
This is just what the system allows us.
Americans allow this.
tim pool
Because Americans don't understand what the law is or how it actually works.
And we bring up quite a bit that there are laws in the books to this day that never get enforced and wouldn't get enforced.
And a great example that, a great example is in West Virginia, it's illegal to cohabitate with a woman.
It's actually a crime in West Virginia.
If you're a man unmarried to have a female roommate or to live with your girlfriend, in what reality would a state trooper show up to your apartment and be like, you're both under arrest for misdemeanor cohabitation?
Never going to happen.
Now, what happens when someone comes to this country and they look at the rules and they say, better not do that because they take it literally, not understanding how this country works?
Or in the inverse, they say, what do you mean?
I did everything right.
I get your money.
Your money is mine.
And we're shocked by that.
It's not explicitly illegal, but it's wrong to do and you'll get in trouble if your community finds out about it.
Too many people rely on written word and they don't understand that constitution means what constitutes a people and their morals.
That's why multicultural democracy makes no sense and literally can't work.
You can never quantify the law perfectly.
cam higby
There are a lot of instances, though, where they are just straight up breaking the law and they know it.
Like Jonathan Cho and I did a really in-depth investigation on Somali childcares in Washington state, and we would just show up to the daycares, home daycares, just out of somebody's house.
Hi, is this blanket daycare?
Nope.
No daycare here.
Go to the neighbors.
You ever seen kids over here?
Is there a daycare?
Nope.
Never seen kids.
It's not a daycare, but they're receiving a million dollars a year from the government.
And you can look it up on the state website, the expenditure website, and there they are.
tim pool
I got to be honest.
Part of me just says, man, if you are able, if you're a rube, you're a rube, right?
What do you do?
You can try as hard as you want to explain to the dude how the three-cart Monty is a trick and you can't win no matter what, but he's adamant he's going to win.
And the American people are getting taken for a ride.
And I know that most of us that are apprised of what's going on, we desperately are trying to alert the other Americans to the fact that they're being swindled by a con.
But man, at a certain point, can you stop the tsunami, right?
My point is, if this is the American way, then does America deserve to exist in this form?
Is America the greatest nation that they claim it to be if the population is a bunch of self-hating white affluent female liberals giving away all of our money and our children's inheritance to a bunch of third worlders ripping us off?
Should that system exist?
I'm going to go right and say that system, not the American dream, not the American Constitution, but that system should not exist.
And everybody agrees.
How you put a stop to it is a question when it is a system built upon rube playing into it with a smile on their face.
andrew branca
That's a real problem.
We have a large segment of the society who's engaged in basically societal self-harm.
I mean, they just make bad decisions for emotional reasons.
In terms of this particular bad decision, we're going to allow hundreds of thousands of Somalians to steal billions of dollars from the treasury.
One way to prevent that from happening is to not have the Somalians here.
Then they can't do that.
In fact, that's the only way to prevent that from happening.
It doesn't solve the bad decision-making, but it prevents that particular, you know, you got a bunch of holes in the bottom of the boat.
The answer is not to fix none of them.
jorge ventura
Why fix it when you get arrested?
Since like Nick Shirley's piece or like, Cam, you were just in Washington State.
Like, why hasn't anyone, you know, been arrested?
Like, one of the good things, great things optics-wise about the ICE raids is that it does deter immigrants who are like in other countries from even making the journey because they see, oh, you get arrested, you get to port, put on a plane.
Why not like arrest Somalis and do a big show and then deter From Shows?
cam higby
Who's going to?
Well, yeah, I wish the DOJ would do it, but like on the state level, the other layer to this, the other problem is like Washington State is like a hostile government.
The mayor of Seattle is an open communist.
tim pool
Listen, there is this relatively leftist perspective, in my opinion, that exists within, I'm not saying it's a wrong perspective, but it's not certainly not a hardcore right perspective.
If it can survive, it will.
If it can't survive, it won't.
There is a certain degree of natural selection in all systems.
And currently, this country has allowed for all of this, and half of it supports it.
And the more you bring in people, the more the weak left bring people in that burn this country to the ground, the faster it will burn down because the people they bring in are additionally burning it down.
My point: this idea that the system we have today deserves to survive, despite the fact that it allowed for this to happen, is, I believe, it's in essence paradoxical.
It's almost like there's a human perspective on trying to control systems, and there's honor, integrity, and there's balance.
It comes to this question of if you saw a butterfly trapped in a spider's web, would you free the butterfly?
And to an extent, although many conservatives would answer, no, I mean, the spider exists and it can eat as well.
I still feel most conservatives are in this world of I should interfere and free the butterfly.
The point is, in a natural system without human interference, the spider eats the butterfly, end of story.
And our aesthetic appreciation of the butterfly is meaningless.
It's two bugs, and one eats the other, and one, it is what it is.
Ultimately, my point is the system created even by the founding fathers has opened the door for this kind of exploitation and destruction by which other authoritarian systems are not victim to.
Now, again, I think the best way to describe it is it's a terrible system, but it's the best we've got, right?
As the old quote goes, what is it?
Churchill has said democracy is terrible except for every other system.
And so ultimately, I suppose what I'm saying is there will be some kind of destruction of the current order within the United States.
Either the communists will win and will be crushed, or the right will wake up and shut down liberalism.
andrew branca
100%.
One of those has right now we're balanced on the top of the pyramid.
We can't stay here.
It's unstable.
So one side or the other side is going to win.
Either the right's going to win and we're going to remove a large number of people from this nation.
You can't actually save the third world.
The first world cannot save the third world.
It's not possible as a matter of mathematics.
We've poured in the last 60 years, we've poured trillions of dollars into the third world, and it's only made things worse.
Their standard of living has been made modestly better, but their population has exploded.
Africa went from a population of about 200, 200 million people who were starving in the third world to 1.4 billion people who were starving in third world.
tim pool
And what I know they need a place to go.
These liberals, I was talking to, I describe as a normie, a non-political person.
And the conversation of like billionaires came up and they said, well, you know, one thing you can do, like these rich people could do is they could take a portion of their profits to go and like give food to people in Africa who need it.
And I said, that sounds nice.
What do you think those people will do once they get the food?
And she's like, I don't know.
They won't be hungry anymore.
And I'm like, okay, so healthy and full-bellied people, right?
They're going to have families.
Yeah.
So they're going to have a bunch of kids, right?
Yeah.
Maybe they have three kids, maybe four.
Okay.
How do we give food to the next generation, which is 50% larger than the previous?
andrew branca
Right.
tim pool
And the problem is these liberals dig well.
andrew branca
It's five times larger.
unidentified
Right.
tim pool
It keeps getting bigger.
And then they need more food every time.
All you're going to do is maximize starvation in the long run.
This is the world that liberals create because they don't actually think about the consequences of their actions.
They think you're evil if you let someone starve without thinking about what happens if that person isn't starving.
Now, to an extent, we agree like, hey, if someone's talking, we're giving them food, right?
But if you are funding a barren wasteland in Central Africa that can't grow food and you're importing food, you are creating a dependent people that will ultimately result in more starvation.
andrew branca
And of course, in the modern era, those same people, they get on the internet, they see what the first world is like, and they have the means to get here.
Right?
100 years ago, that wasn't possible.
But today it is possible.
And we have a Democrat Party that knows the American body politic is no longer voting for it.
They need a new political constituency.
And they look at Africa and they see tens of millions of people they can bring in to be that new constituency that's dependent upon Democrat largesse and the Democrats stay in power.
I mean, otherwise they don't survive.
cam higby
People also start engaging in other things too and their bellies are full because their primary concern is no longer how do I survive until tomorrow.
They engage in things like war and terrorism as well.
tim pool
You know what?
If you want to conquer a country, the best thing you can do is give them free stuff.
Bombs, you know, you can wipe out the population, but if your goal as an empire was we want to subjugate this nation so they serve us, so they mine cobalt and sulfur and their teeth fall out of their mouths and we don't got to do it.
Dropping bombs and showing up with guns, ineffective.
You kill off a bunch of the slaves you're trying to capture.
So what do you do?
You give them free shoes.
And you know what happens then?
This is a funny story about Tom's shoes.
I believe it was Tom's shoes.
But if I'm wrong, then I'll eat that one.
But I recommend you guys look into it because I don't want to besmirch any company if I am wrong about this.
So I may be wrong.
I'm very careful here.
But the story that I heard was they said, for every pair of shoes you buy, we'll give a pair of shoes to a needy person in Africa.
Overnight, the economy of these areas was flooded with free shoes.
So what happened?
The shoemakers all went out of business.
There were people who made a living repairing and making shoes for people.
All of a sudden, you have a bunch of people who can't make money anymore.
So their shops go out of business.
They become destitute.
And now you have a high level of unemployment and homelessness from these people who can no longer make money.
There's an ancillary, a secondary effect.
These shoemakers were buying food.
Now the farmer who was growing wheat just lost a certain percentage of his customers.
The economy collapsed by getting free stuff.
And now the people are desperate and destitute.
And you walk in and say, we're going to solve all your problems.
You will be in debt to us.
And we will fund your redevelopment so you can solve this.
But now you serve us.
And that's what they do.
andrew branca
Yep.
tim pool
That's why we gave $13 million for gender studies in Pakistan.
andrew branca
And that's why China engages in all these infrastructure projects in all these countries.
In Greenland, they tried to do the same kind of mining deals to create those exactly those kinds of dependencies.
tim pool
Yep.
So then right now, I guess my view of things is the left likes to say the old world is dying and the new world struggles to be born.
And that view that they have represents an idea only they can win.
They believe that the right is the old world and the only new world is theirs.
And their world is struggling to be born, but it will because the old world is dying.
What they miss, in fact, is that there are actually two potential new realities.
The Right's Struggle for a New World 00:03:08
tim pool
And it's a question of whether or not the right is willing to actually fight and push for it.
And I believe it's a strong probability, that's why I say civil war, that it will come to this.
But in the event there is a civil war, let's go back a little bit.
If the right is unwilling to stand up for what it believes in, there will be a revolution.
The right will cease to exist and this country will become a multicultural democracy, much like the CCP, how they operate.
It's not a democracy, but multicultural democracy is what they describe it as.
It's obviously just party communism where people in power steal the power from others and don't let anybody else get power.
And then you get goblin king scenarios where people start killing other military officers for power and whatever.
andrew branca
Well, it's reversion to the mean of humanity, right?
Humanity's existence is normally just a small number of people at the top with all the wealth.
tim pool
Indeed.
andrew branca
And 99% of the people are completely poverty-ridden.
tim pool
And that system will be no matter what.
The question is, will it be a traditionalist constitutional American worldview where you have a Christian family celebrating Christmas?
Or is it going to be a transgender communist with a polycule?
This is the big fight between the communists and the fascists going back 100 years.
They both were authoritarian factions that wanted to dominate, but they had differences on their cultural values.
The fascists were traditionalists and the communists were progressives.
The communists wanted to erase all history and create a new blank slate garbage world.
And the fascists wanted to maintain gender, you know, the social orders around gender and tradition, family, and religion.
Largely we have that now.
If the right plays the will-be-liberals game, and I don't mean liberal in the political sense, I mean in the philosophical sense, they will be crushed by the authoritarians.
If the right decides to be as authoritarian as the left, you'll have a fight between two factions like we saw 100 years ago.
And the question is, which faction wins?
Well, I think the fascists are much more likely to win if they fight back.
andrew branca
But do you have to be authoritarian and fascist to believe in gender norms and nuclear families?
Because that feels like a stretch to me.
tim pool
The point is the moderate liberals, the centrists and the libertarians who are like, I don't believe any of that bullshit, are completely unwilling to fight.
So they're not in the equation.
As I said, the libertarians fold like cheaps.
andrew branca
Okay, fair enough.
I understand.
tim pool
You are going to get Matt Walsh, Deus Walt types that are going to raise their sword and say, ah, motherland or whatever.
The moderates are going to sit back and whoever wins, they will be subjugated by it.
Like libertarians are going to be under the boot of whichever faction wins while complaining about the boot.
Good luck.
andrew branca
Yeah, I do think it's only one of two outcomes.
Either we I think there's two, fundamentally there's two cultures out there.
There's first world culture, there's third world culture.
First world is about a billion, third world's about seven billion.
And it's unfortunately, first world cultures are very vulnerable to exploitation by the third world because we are a high trust society.
And when low trust people come in, they see scams everywhere.
They see opportunities everywhere.
And so it's very easy for a first world culture to be degraded to a third world status.
I mean, just think about it.
Most of us have probably lived in good neighborhoods and bad neighborhoods.
I know I have, right?
If you live, I'll call it a good neighborhood, a high-trust neighborhood.
High-Trust Society Dilemma 00:10:51
andrew branca
Your kid leaves his bicycle out in the front yard for a couple hours.
He's probably going to be there when he comes back in a high trust neighborhood.
What's that?
tim pool
You ever go skiing?
andrew branca
Yeah, right, exactly right.
unidentified
Right.
andrew branca
High trust, right?
You leave these $1,000 skis out where you go inside and have lunch.
But I've also lived in neighborhoods where if you left that bicycle in your front yard for three minutes, it was gone.
It was gone.
So how many times does your kid's bike have to be stolen from the front yard before you decide, you know what, we can't do that anymore, right?
Turns out we don't live in a high-trust neighborhood.
It turns out we live in a neighborhood where bikes get stolen, and you have to lock that bike up all the time.
If you have 10% of the population that's low trust like that, every person in the population has to begin conducting themselves as a low trust person or they just get exploited.
That happens on the national scale too.
If you're a first world high trust nation and you bring in even 10% of the population, that's low trust, they'll just rip you off all the time.
And you all have to act as if everyone's trying to rip you off.
tim pool
There's a scenario that I like to ask people about.
It's a thought experiment.
And so I'll throw it at you, Mr. Self-Defense Man.
Let's just say, hypothetically, you can come up with whatever backstory you want.
You're thousands of miles from any civilization.
You're in the woods.
You have a small canteen full of water.
You have a rifle with, you know, let's say it holds 30 rounds.
andrew branca
That's good.
tim pool
And you've got a small little, in your backpack, you have a little bit of food.
You don't know where your next meal is.
You have no shelter and you are lost.
You are trying to survive in this wilderness.
As you are walking, off in the distance, you see a person walking generally in your direction, maybe 100 yards down.
And they also have a rifle, carrying a small canteen and a backpack.
Maybe they have food, maybe they don't.
What do you do?
andrew branca
Shoot them.
tim pool
Right away?
Yeah.
All right, let me ask you, what do you do?
cam higby
Initially, you want to trust the person, but I would maybe brandish the rifle and ask who they are.
tim pool
What do you do?
jorge ventura
Oh, man.
It's like you want to trust them, but I feel like I got to take that self-defense where I would just shoot him.
cam higby
Let's listen later.
tim pool
Let's follow the list.
So I want to follow logic for you guys, but then yours is the fun is where we get in the fun of thought experience.
So your guys is actually quite simple.
The person's walking and you say, shoot.
unidentified
Bang.
tim pool
He drops dead.
You walk up.
Now you have two guns.
Now you have twice the water.
And guess what?
He had food.
Now you have two backpacks.
Are you going to carry it all?
Probably not.
So you're going to strip down whatever you need.
And then you're going to leave the body.
Maybe take his boots.
Maybe his socks are clean, whatever.
andrew branca
How hungry are you?
tim pool
Yeah.
Well, you know, are you hungry enough to eat a person?
Well, he had some food on him.
So you've just expanded your food supply.
He's dead.
Let's go your route.
You want to trust him, right?
cam higby
I point the gun at him and ask him who he is.
tim pool
Okay, he immediately raises his gun and shoots and you're dead.
cam higby
Okay.
tim pool
You aimed a weapon at a guy.
Do you think he's going to wait to find out what you're doing?
He's got a rifle on him.
This is true.
So when you raise your gun and say, who are you?
He thinks he's going to shoot me.
unidentified
Bang.
tim pool
You're dead.
Now he's got two days of water.
But hold on.
This scenario is not meant to say that you will always die or always kill people.
Let's go with the, you want to find out who he is, right?
So you don't raise your gun right away.
unidentified
Yep.
tim pool
So you yell, who are you?
unidentified
Right?
Yep.
tim pool
And he goes, gas bla gafudo.
jorge ventura
Oh, shoot him.
Shoot him.
There you go.
tim pool
The point is, you don't speak the same language.
Now here's the thing.
If the person walking up looked just like you and you said, hold up, who are you?
And he goes, don't shoot.
My name's Rick.
I'm lost.
He keeps his hands up.
You say, keep your hands up.
I'm going to approach.
You speak the same language.
You've got no problems.
And guess what?
Teaming up, you're more likely to survive together than alone.
andrew branca
Right, because trust is like a bank account, right?
It needs to be created.
In a high trust culture, we tend to trust each other.
We don't presume everyone's trying to rip us off because the culture has taught us and enforced those rules of high trust.
So when the guy speaks the same language, if you come from a high, listen, if you come from a low trust society and that guy speaks the same language as you, you're going to shoot him.
tim pool
Let's, right?
Let's play some games with this.
So you see the guy and you yell, hold it.
Who are you?
And he yells, gabbara boopa.
And you go, okay, we've got a problem.
What did you say?
Bossa, blah, And you're like, I can't understand this guy.
Now your trust is a challenge here.
It doesn't mean he's evil.
It doesn't mean he's wrong, but trust is going to be a problem.
But let's have some fun with it.
He says, hold up, don't shoot.
My name's Rick.
I'm a liberal and I think communism is great.
Now you're like, oh, crap.
Or he says...
andrew branca
Then he wouldn't have a gun.
tim pool
Yeah.
cam higby
He's a communist.
He'd have a gun.
tim pool
Are you kidding?
He's got three.
unidentified
Yeah.
tim pool
And he's going to, and he yells back, are you a communist?
Notice that I have to kill you.
And then he pulls out his guns, starts unloading on you.
Communists love guns.
Did you, you see what these commies are posting in Minnesota?
They're saying, I don't believe.
They're posting.
I don't, they're posting.
There's a viral post where they said, I don't care about Priddy's right to a second amendment.
I don't believe in the Second Amendment.
I have guns and I'll kill you if you do.
cam higby
They literally put out come to the vigil with guns to show solidarity with Alex Predi.
It's just trying to desensitize the liberals to guns.
tim pool
It's not even about that.
Communists believe communists should have guns and nobody else.
cam higby
Right.
Exactly.
unidentified
Yeah.
tim pool
I like asking that thought experiment about being in the woods because liberals have no answer.
They don't understand what it's like to be in an environment where you are facing death at any moment and you have to decide whether you're going to trust someone or not.
And the thought experiment is not to give you a definitive answer.
There's no guarantee the person shoots and kills you, steals your stuff.
Maybe the person says, please, love God, help me.
I'm dying.
You just don't know.
But the typical route I always go is, whenever I ask, it's funny.
Most people don't say just shoot them.
andrew branca
That's why you have me on.
tim pool
Typically, conservatives say, like, I'd ready my weapon and then say, stop, who are you?
Things like that.
Liberals always say, I try and shake their hand and approach them.
And it's like, yeah, okay, you flip a coin on whether you're going to die or not.
For all you know, this guy, like, for all you know, you're approaching a village and he's a guard.
For all you know, you are stumbling, lost in the woods, and you come across a man whose wife is sick and starving and he's got three kids.
And he's, and he's going to be crying and say, I'm sorry, I have to kill you, but my children need it more than you.
And then he shoots you dead.
andrew branca
Yeah, so I was actually going to raise that as an alternative to your hypothesis.
What if it's not just you alone?
It's you and your wife and three kids and you encounter that strange dude.
Then what are you going to do?
cam higby
Then I'm shooting.
andrew branca
Same thing or are you just going to shoot him?
tim pool
What does the mama bear do when you come near their babies?
She doesn't stop.
andrew branca
You're going to take some risk that he's well-intentioned?
You can't shoot him.
cam higby
I got my wife and kids.
andrew branca
And I would just suggest that if when I add the wife and kids, you're more likely to just shoot them.
Why wouldn't you value your own life like that?
Why does it take having the wife and kids in the picture to be willing to do that?
Because your life is valuable too.
unidentified
That's a great question.
tim pool
Yeah, but you feel – Well, I mean, I think it's an obvious answer.
You value the lives of your family more than your own.
So you're willing to take a risk for yourself, but not for your kids.
andrew branca
Yes, but relative to that guy, I value my life more than him.
cam higby
Indeed.
tim pool
But my point is, if there is a small percentage chance that you can trust this guy and work together, your survival odds improve dramatically.
Whereas with your family, you already have improved survival odds due to multiple people working together, and this guy presents nothing but risk.
cam higby
And with your family, there's more variables involved, which makes decision-making harder because you're looking at this guy.
He could shoot anyone behind you.
You have to watch and protect them while you're trying to reason with this guy.
The risk is much greater.
andrew branca
Even if they're not present, they're back in the cave and you were out hunting.
So you're alone when you encounter this guy.
tim pool
No, but the point is simple.
How many kids do you got?
Two, four.
Four kids.
Okay, great.
So you've got someone who's working on collecting twigs for the fire, wood for the fire.
One's going to find water.
Your wife is gathering, you know, whatever, whatever, foraging whatever she can, or maybe setting traps to get some small game.
And you go out and see this guy and you think, I don't need him.
He's not going to help me survive.
He presents nothing but risk.
If you're by yourself, humans need people.
The exponential gain on survival, like the exponential increase in survivability with more people is it is patently obvious as common sense.
So if you're just by yourself, you have a risk of dying in solitude because it's hard to survive on your own.
There is a there's a percentage net gain to asking this man if he can help you.
But if you already have a family of five, there's yeah, you don't need them.
In fact, you're better off taking his stuff.
andrew branca
Even by myself, I think any prospect of gain from that guy is infinitesimal compared to the risk that he's going to kill me.
tim pool
You know, and of course, in the real world, there's tons of nuance, right?
If like you're, if you're in, if you're lost in the woods in Canada, you're literally going to be like, hey, friend, I'm lost, need help.
andrew branca
And he's going to say, you are in a high culture environment.
tim pool
Exactly.
andrew branca
Right.
tim pool
It's all about trust.
It's a trust environment.
Now, the problem is if you're lost in the woods in Minnesota and you're in the middle of the woods and there's a Somali guy who's armed.
And I'm not saying you inherently just don't trust him, but this is the root of racism.
A white man from a small village in Spain is out gathering when he sees a black man approach.
And guess what?
He knows instantly this man is not from his tribe or from his village.
It's not an issue of him saying, I don't like black people.
It's him saying, you are clearly not from my village.
Now, if a guy who looked kind of like him was approaching, he could be thinking, is he from my village or maybe from a neighboring village?
But he looks like me.
Again, the left likes to think that you just hate someone because they look different.
But the root of this was small tribal nomadic communities could tell the difference between their neighbors and people from somewhere else because they looked different.
andrew branca
Yeah, and I think it's a trap we fall into from liberal language, where if we recognize that there's cultural differences among different peoples, that means we're racist.
That means we're looking at their skin color.
There are cultural differences in different groups of people.
There are higher trust and low trust societies.
I mean, they do studies, like Stripe did a study recently on credit card fraud, Stripe, the credit card processing company.
They look at the rate of fraud in different countries.
And the rate of fraud in America and Canada and Europe is infinitesimal compared to the rate of fraud in many third world countries.
India in particular, they had to come up with literally an infinity fraud category just for India.
It was like the scale went from one to 30.
And India is the one country that not only is it 30, they just did 30 plus, like the 30 and everything above 30.
And this is patterned by cultures.
I mean, different cultures have different rates like this.
tim pool
The sad reality is that a culture that is high trust and low fraud is substantially more successful in the long run.
Trust and Abundance 00:03:44
andrew branca
Yeah.
tim pool
But a culture that is low trust and high fraud is substantially more successful in the short term.
unidentified
Correct.
andrew branca
Because you get immediate advantage of your low trust, right?
You're always scamming everybody around you.
So that's a high trust.
The high trust acts like a lubricant in an engine.
It allows the engine to run much more efficiently because I can basically trust when you say you're going to do something, I can default to a mode of trust.
I can default to a mode of trust.
Everything becomes easier.
If we're trying to work together and I have to assume that if you have the opportunity, you're going to rip me off or you're going to rip me off.
Then we have to put up such tremendous guardrails against being ripped off that we can't get anything done.
tim pool
We need an ice age.
andrew branca
Well, that would rationalize.
tim pool
High trust is born of winter.
Because in areas where you have a permanent abundance near the equator, you'll see a lot lower trust in the long run because you don't need to work with anybody.
Fruit is always there.
Small game is always there.
And you get humans that live in these areas tend to be less industrious.
I'm not insulting anybody based on race.
If you look at the Mediterranean with consistently warmer temperatures, they have siesta, like in Spain.
In Athens, all the Mediterranean countries have something similar where at 2 p.m., they close their stores and go to sleep because you don't have to.
But if you live in an area where there's a winter, if you're not working 24-7 to prepare to survive the winter, you die.
And if you die, your ideas die with you.
So in these winter areas, you had people who are like, we need to store up grain and meat for the winter and store it somewhere cool to be able to survive.
And they had cheeses and foods that would last a long time and they would make jerky.
When the winter comes, there's no food anywhere.
It's pretty wild at our property in West Virginia, the castle.
The abundance of food in the spring, from the end of spring into the fall, it's nuts.
There's probably a million grapes.
They're called frost grapes and they taste kind of bad, but they're edible.
It's food.
You're supposed to wait till first frost when they freeze and it gets rid of something like the acid and then they taste better.
But either way, you can eat them.
They're just not that good.
Then we've got wineberries everywhere.
It's an invasive raspberry from China.
We've got mulberries everywhere.
We've got blackberries everywhere.
And we have pawpaw in the autumn.
So beginning of October, you have these gigantic, you know, pawpaw is?
andrew branca
I don't think so.
tim pool
It's this mushy, gigantic fruit that's, they say it's like a mix of banana, avocado, and mango.
And so it's fine and it's food.
And there's so much of it, it falls off and rots on the ground.
But the amount of, and apple trees, we've got apple trees all over the place.
And it's funny, as soon as the leaves fall off, there's no food at all anywhere.
And it's funny because I know people who live in rural areas and grew up this way, they already understand this, but people live in cities have no idea.
And I'm just sitting there thinking like, you know, we can get a lot of our food from our garden.
We were growing zucchini and tomato.
We had fresh basil and pumpkins.
And I'm like, man, just free food.
We made the mistake that every gardener makes.
andrew branca
Too big.
tim pool
No, you plant your tomatoes all at once.
unidentified
Oh, okay.
All right.
tim pool
Because you can't eat them all at once.
You're supposed to plant one, wait a week, plant one, wait a week.
Then they ripen over the next couple of weeks.
And then I remember, like, we were actually eating a good portion of our own garden.
I would get eggs from the chicken coop.
Then I would get vegetables and I'd make, you know, and I'm, I wouldn't have cheese.
We didn't make any cheese.
I'd cheat in the grocery store, but without that, I'm like, wow, like 80% of my breakfast came from my yard.
It's wild because people from cities don't do this.
And then when the winter came, I was like, time to go to the grocery store because we have nothing.
And I was just thinking about like, what should I have done?
We make jams with a lot of the berries, and those last for six months to a year.
If you freeze them, they can last longer.
You can't really freeze them without electricity, without, you know, condensers.
So you put them in your basement where it's 50 degrees or whatever.
Survival Strategies 00:15:18
tim pool
But ultimately, the point is, when you live in, you know, Florida, there's no winter.
Food just grows all year round.
andrew branca
And I've heard this theory before.
I want to ask your take on something, though.
So it makes sense, right?
If you live in a climate that has real winters, it would foster, let's call it a higher IQ population.
jorge ventura
I don't know, bro.
I just left Minneapolis.
tim pool
Minneapolis isn't a culture of people who are forced to live in winters.
We have refrigerators in abundance and they ship food in from California.
andrew branca
Right.
No, I'm talking 150, 200 years ago, 500 years ago.
If you didn't save food over the spring, summer, and fall, you died in the winter, right?
You ran out of food.
So it required planning, foresight, willing to sacrifice a pleasure now so you would have food later.
Those are characteristics of people with a high IQ, right?
So, but when I think about, so that part makes sense, but when I think about the foundations of our first world cultures historically, it was really the ancient Greeks and Romans, right?
Those are our cultural foundations, and they're in the Mediterranean.
tim pool
And they were winters.
The argument was that people who migrated north and lived in these conditions eventually due to lack of resources and population expansion migrated back down south.
andrew branca
Oh, okay.
tim pool
And so the theory is that the winterized people who had this drive to just keep working were now in an area where it was typically warmer.
And all of a sudden, their drive to work was not necessary.
So what did they do?
They began writing philosophy.
They began exploring mathematics and making inventions.
But the other thing with Europe was the constant warfare.
The constant conflict in a tight, though it's a large peninsula, it is, you have nowhere to go, resulted in not just winter resulting in people needing to work nonstop, but you've got one, a group of people to the north, you know, after the fall of the Roman Empire particularly, who speak a different language and don't care for you.
And if you ever stop working, they will come and take you over and enslave you.
So the conflict resulted in a higher IQ, stupider people.
In fact, a funny component of this is the reason why Smith is such a popular last name.
Because when a war broke out, they would never send a Smith to go fight because they needed someone to make weapons.
And if they conquered a city, they would never kill the Smith because they made weapons.
Now, if you take a look at Native American culture from North to South America, they didn't have this advancement.
Why?
Big open spaces with nothing else to do.
So when conflict broke out, they would moved.
Despite the fact that they were winters and they had to struggle to survive, they didn't have any meaningful conflict.
And it was so open, they could just move further south and go and try and find food somewhere else.
andrew branca
Yeah, another dynamic I've heard that contributes to high trust in first world countries is that especially in Europe, for many years, for hundreds of years, they would basically execute 1% of their population every year, the worst criminals in their population.
So if you're removing from your population the genetics of people who are low trust in character, right?
They're the scammers, the thieves, the murderers.
tim pool
Or the culture.
andrew branca
The people who are left are the people who are not predisposed to have those kinds of behaviors.
tim pool
Yeah, in Japan, as an island, you had a combination of they have winter and they also have close proximity and constant fighting between clans, which is why, as I should say, hypothesis, the reason why they have martial arts and a whole slew of weird weapons with all these different names was because of the constant fighting.
And then for like the Korean Peninsula as well, there's nowhere you can go.
And so this fighting was happening back and forth, which resulted in this, its technological advancement.
One of my favorite stories from European warfare was that, I forget why, it might have been the English versus the French.
At some point, one side decided to make the notches in their arrows very thin and their bowstrings very thin.
So that way, the enemy would launch arrows at them that they could pick up and reuse, but their arrows could not be used in their thicker bowstrings.
Fascinatingly, Genghis Khan put a dude on a horse and gave him a bow and arrow and just it was the equivalent of a nuclear bomb.
It was like guy on horse with bow.
We can't stop him.
Yeah.
Horse archers, man.
andrew branca
Nobody stopped them.
I mean, what stopped them was geography.
They hit Europe and they were off the planes.
And if you were off the planes, each one of those men had five or six horses that they would use.
So you needed lots of planes to feed all those horses.
Once they hit the mountains of Europe, that's what stopped them.
Yeah, they would have gone all the way to the Atlantic otherwise.
tim pool
It's fascinating that the constant fighting in the Asias, they developed technologically much, much more quickly than Europe did, which is interesting.
And I think it may be that, you know, I wonder, I bet when you load all of this stuff into AI, it'll be able to break down exactly how and why it happened.
But I think a combination of factors in the Asias resulted in them technologically advancing much more quickly than Europe did.
I think the winters provided for a group of people that were willing to be industrious and higher IQ, but also were held back by winters.
Actually, have you seen Three Body Problem, that show?
andrew branca
I don't think so.
tim pool
I recommend you watch it because it's anti-communist.
And it got a lot of attention because the show starts with a cultural revolution in China where they're beating and executing professors for not being, you know, holding up their red books and stuff like this.
But the point of the show is that there is an alien planet that lives in a three-body orbit.
So its orbit is erratic.
They never know how long the warm season will be or how long the chaos period will be.
It could be thousands of years of, you know, so I think the story is that there's like two suns.
I can't remember exactly what it is, but the orbit is erratic.
So they're constantly being, their population is constantly decimated by global natural disasters, the planet burning up.
They live underground.
And on Earth, we have a static orbit.
It's constant and predictable.
And so the aliens are much, much more advanced than us.
And they tell the humans that they're coming here.
And the reason why they want to stop humanity is that they realize the technological advancement that they had was stunted.
They never knew if they'd have a good period or a bad period.
So technology would freeze for 1,000 years and then kick off once things got better again.
Whereas Earth always has a season and technology just rapidly accelerates.
So the aliens say, at the rate of your technological development, you will surpass us in 100 years, which means we have to kill you now before you do.
And I don't know when season two or whatever is coming out, but that was the premise why the aliens wanted to wipe us out.
They're like, their ship is coming here.
But that can be translated to Earth as well in that societies that have no guarantee that it's going to be nice out may be driven to be industrious and intelligent, but are going to undergo a harsh winter that stops them from actually building the weapons and fighting.
Whereas an area that has that degree of industriousness, but also has a warmer climate, moves down perhaps to the Mediterranean or to like Southeast Asia, is going to rapidly develop.
I don't know.
andrew branca
I think even for humanity, I mean, if you think of humanity as having been around for 10,000 years, our real technological development has been the last 500 years.
tim pool
Less than that.
andrew branca
Less than that.
I mean, if you think back to sailing ships, crossing oceans, right?
Maybe 500 years ago, we really started doing that.
tim pool
You know how long it took to make the cartridge guns?
andrew branca
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
tim pool
500 years.
andrew branca
Right.
tim pool
And then once we did, holy crap, all of a sudden we were just like, man.
And this is a component of what we're talking about with being in the woods.
The more people there are, the faster you develop, the more resources you have, the easier it is to survive.
So Elon Musk is right when he says we need more people.
One of the problems we face right now, and this is- But is that true?
Yeah.
andrew branca
I mean, look at India.
India's got 1.5 billion people.
They're not, I don't want to live there.
Do you want to live there?
tim pool
And there's a reason why the Black Plague happened.
The point is, the inflection point or potentially the great filter that we're looking at is if we advance technology to the point where everyone will survive no matter what, then you're likely going to collapse.
But if you have a massive population expansion to 10 billion and then a disaster which wipes out only the weakest of that, leaving only a billion, those billion are substantially more likely to survive in the future, to be more industrious, and then that billion rapidly expands.
That's the general idea.
So I wouldn't be surprised to find out that there are millionaires and billionaires that want to foment a great crisis that wipes out a billion plus people, like Georgia Guidestone's level stuff, because it's the idea of, hey, look, if we detonated a wave of nuclear bombs around the planet, the smartest people in the world will see it coming and hide, and the stupidest people will get wiped out, and then only the smartest people will procreate after the fact, which is what Alex Jones described.
He said, the powers that be tell you where the bear traps are.
And if you're too stupid and you step in them anyway, that's your own fault.
That seems to be the world that these people intend to create.
andrew branca
I think that's an unrealistic expectation of what happens with disaster.
I think people generally just get wiped out.
tim pool
I think if you look at what's going on, I disagree.
I think if you look at right now, let's say World War III would start right now.
Which group of people, and choose any group in this country, do you think is the most likely to survive the total nuclear World War III?
And any group, I'm not saying political, I'm saying just pick a group of people who's most likely to survive World War III.
andrew branca
Like the explosions or like a five-year war, full-scale nuclear war.
tim pool
The elites, absolutely.
In the Fallout series, they call it the enclave.
The government actors, they go into Raven Rock and Mount Weather.
They've long been planning to survive these things with underground bases that are networked.
You can go from the White House 40 miles out in these secret underground tunnels.
We know that some of these tunnels exist, but the real secret ones we don't.
We just know that there are tunnels.
Then you could say preppers, right?
jorge ventura
guarantee a prepper survives more than a liberal does because i feel like we would all be wiped out by it would be a drone warfare first of all And I feel like we'd just all be wiped out.
tim pool
The obvious point is the people who are paying attention to varying degrees are going to survive before the people who are not paying attention.
The people who are more likely to pay attention to their world, study what is going on, and prepare for survival are more likely to survive any disaster.
And if you wiped out, you think the Somali community survives this?
andrew branca
No, no, no, absolutely not.
tim pool
Absolutely not.
It's all short-term thinking in these countries.
andrew branca
Right, right.
No, you need long-term thinking to survive under any circumstances.
But there's a lot of long-term thinkers who aren't billionaires, is my opinion.
tim pool
You don't need to be a billionaire to survive.
If I knew, if we were sitting here right now, the chances, let's say a nuke was launched and it's 15 minutes till it strikes DC or whatever.
Us here in this room would know the moment it happened.
And 90% of the country would have no idea until it was minutes out.
They'd have no idea.
That is an advantage.
And obviously a nuke heading towards DC, like who knows?
But I talk about the stock market quite a bit.
How about this?
I bought a bunch of silver.
I bought a bunch of silver several years ago and it's at $20.
Holy crap.
It's just terrifying what's going on.
I bought Bitcoin when it was at $1,000 or whatever.
I bought a ton of Bitcoin.
Just knowing what is going on in the world, you are more likely to succeed and survive and develop.
If a disaster happened that threatened to kill literally everyone on the planet, but there was a chance of survival if you were prepared, then the smartest and most industrious people will survive it.
Not all of them, but a lot of them.
andrew branca
I agree when you say smartest and most industrious.
So a while back, I was invited to a guy's house up in Montana.
This very, very wealthy individual.
He's got a house out in the middle of nowhere.
It's got solar panels, completely off the grid, self-supporting.
He's got a farm, greenhouses, all this great stuff.
And I was really impressed.
And I just thought to myself, all right, if everything went sideways and me and my family are out in the woods starving to death and I came across this guy's house, I'm just taking his house.
tim pool
Yeah, the saying is, thank you to all of the people who don't have guns for being loot drops for those that do.
andrew branca
I'm taking his stuff.
tim pool
Yep.
andrew branca
Now, of course, that would require me to be smart and industrious and be able to figure out how to do that effectively and not get killed myself.
But I'm acquiring resources from where I find the resources.
They may be owned by other people who did all that prepper stuff, and maybe I wasn't smart enough to do that.
tim pool
Yeah, you're likely not.
Like the people who are prepping are not going to be defeated by the people who just have guns and try to steal from them.
It's not going to happen.
There will be, in any real collapse, bands of banditos will form together, desperate and hungry.
But I assure you, preppers have all thought of this and more.
Like I'm a small investor in the Fortitude Ranch Network, and this is 101.
When shit hits the fan, people will come and try and take whatever they have from you.
And trust me, our full auto 50 cals aren't let you anywhere near it.
You've got emergency food that you acquire, that you store it.
And the rule is you never eat it.
andrew branca
But you said we.
So this is a group of people.
tim pool
Indeed.
andrew branca
That makes a difference.
And just being an isolated.
tim pool
An individual isolated prepper is not a prepper.
You're just a wack-aloon.
I'm talking about a person who's planning to survive doesn't just go by himself.
andrew branca
Right, right, right.
That makes a big difference.
tim pool
And if your argument, like, by all means, there's going to be some guy who's an accountant who bought 10 emergency food cases from safeandreadymeals.com.
I've not chatted that out in a long time.
And he's got no guns and he hasn't planned.
That's not a prepper.
That's a guy who bought stuff.
andrew branca
He's just holding my stuff.
tim pool
Real preppers, even single individuals, I would say is a real prepper.
You are not stealing from these people.
They will blow up their, they have bombs and booby traps.
People being raided by barbarians is the first thing you need to assess in any real prepper scenario.
So you might find a house where a non-prepper has prepped some to some degree, and that's just candy for taking different candy from a baby.
andrew branca
Yeah, I think if you want practical defense against roving hordes of people, you have to have numbers because you need people to be able to stand guard.
You need to be able to take losses in a fight, right?
And still, I mean, how many losses can you take in your life?
tim pool
I actually think it's much zero, right?
I actually think it's much easier than that.
I call this the Batman prepping, right?
As the saying goes, for those that don't know their comic book lore, the most powerful superhero in all of superhero dumb is Batman.
Just a regular guy.
He's not a regular guy.
He's a billionaire.
But the comic book lore argument is that given enough time, Batman can defeat any other character.
Now, okay, we get it.
There's the one above all.
There's, I don't know, forget me not.
He was on Reddit the other day.
There are certain characters in comic book that have God-level cosmic powers that sure.
But the general idea is that what makes Batman a great character is that he's prepared for literally anything.
And as a single individual with resources, he can defeat anybody.
They did a crossover of Marvel in DC, and it's, it's, I love it.
It's just like, this is the old lore, the old magic.
Batman, who is just a man with no powers, defeated the incredible Hulk.
Preparedness Pays Off 00:09:09
tim pool
How is that possible?
He threw nerve gas at the Hulk and then struck his solar plexus, forcing him to inhale the gas and collapse.
So Batman, he has a contingency to kill or take down any Justice League superhero member, all pre-planned in advance.
The point is.
andrew branca
I thought you were going to say he taught Hulk that there were 50 genders.
tim pool
And then Hulk went and bashed and sucked in the face.
No, the general idea is a single individual well prepared can take out an army.
So if you're a single prepper, but you're like a legit prepper and you've planned ahead, you can take out 50 barbarians trying to storm the gates without anything.
Chemicals.
You can blast carbon dioxide and they all just drop dead.
There's that famous story of this.
It's actually very possible.
It's very scary.
Beneath a lake, a carbon dioxide deposit was building up.
andrew branca
I've heard that.
tim pool
And it burped and swept across all the nearby houses, displacing the oxygen, and everyone died because they just collapsed.
And then the carbon dioxide lingers, they getting no oxygen, and they were dead in a few minutes.
andrew branca
And they wouldn't even know they were dying.
tim pool
No, they just fall asleep.
andrew branca
This happens in laboratories all the time, actually, that have nitrogen tanks.
They leak.
The room fills up with nitrogen.
When you walk into that room, there's no oxygen in it.
tim pool
And you don't know you're just breathing.
andrew branca
Your body doesn't actually detect a lack of oxygen.
When you feel like you're suffocating, it's because carbon dioxide is building up in your system.
But if you're breathing nitrogen, you're clearing out the carbon dioxide.
Your body thinks everything's fine.
jorge ventura
That's crazy.
andrew branca
And then you just get dizzy and you fall over and you suffocate in an ocean of nitrogen in the room.
tim pool
But the thing is, as you become hypoxic, you're completely incapable of calculating or understanding what's happening around you.
So you're just like, oh, I must be tired.
They did this really great experiment.
They put people in a hyperbaric chamber and they reduced the oxygen.
They had them, they gave them a math test for like fifth graders.
And then they slowly reduced the oxygen level while the person did the math test.
And then they told them to, once they're done with it, finish it, put it in a folder, put it down, and then wait and they'll restore the oxygen, open up and come in.
They come in and they ask each person, like, how do you think you did on the math test?
And they said, I aced it.
And they said, let's take a look.
And the first answer is right, right, right, right, wrong, wrong, very wrong.
Is that a number?
That's a squiggly line.
Now they're just scratching the paper.
They thought they passed the test.
And by the time the oxygen got low, they were just scratching the paper, not even putting symbols down.
But in their mind, they were like, I'm nailing this.
That's how crazy it is.
Yeah.
This conversation has gone off on a long.
Well, I guess we're kind of talking about the end of days, you know, and what's going to happen.
And so in the last 10 minutes, let's just go this direction.
I don't believe conservatives, if right now a civil war broke out definitively, conservatives would lose like that instantly.
First, they're extremely arrogant.
Conservatives think they're smarter, faster, stronger, and better than all the liberals.
Just read Sun Tzu.
If that's the mindset you have, you've lost in two seconds.
They believe by virtue of having more guns than liberals, they're going to win.
But take a look at Afghanistan or Vietnam.
We had all the best technology in the world, and a bunch of sheepherders in caves held us off for 20 years in Afghanistan.
Weapons don't occupy street corners.
Having guns does nothing.
The most powerful weapon in any war, communications.
And the left has it in spades, and the right does not.
So if a civil war broke out right now, congratulations.
You got a 50 BMG in your basement along with 17 AR-15s and 20,000 rounds.
Brilliant.
What are you going to do with it?
cam higby
The American Revolution is a great example of this.
That was a civil war, effectively.
We fought against our mother colony and they had more guns than usual.
tim pool
Well, it was not.
It was not a civil war.
We did not fight for control of the British government.
Okay, fair enough.
It was a secessionist war.
cam higby
It was a war for the government.
unidentified
Exactly.
cam higby
Fair enough.
tim pool
But the most important thing in the American Revolution was the American zeal.
And conservatives do not have it.
The left has communist zeal.
andrew branca
And to your point, by the way, the American Revolution, it didn't just kick off at Lexington and Concord.
Like, that was the first thing that happened.
The founding fathers spent at least a decade propagandizing the idea of American liberty, conditioning the American mind to be desirous of that state.
And even then, they only got 30% of the population to back it.
But that turned out to be a problem.
tim pool
And there was a Declaration of Independence.
People don't know this, but it's real.
It's always Sonny made a joke where they were like, it was a back in time episode where they were like, we don't want revolution.
We're going to make a Declaration of Independence.
But there actually was one.
And it had a bunch of signatories who are saying, we are loyal to the crown and do not want independence.
The thing about the American Revolution was that the regulars were fighting for a job, so they had to hire Hessians to help because they didn't care.
The Americans were fighting for a grand vision of a new nation born of this land and the rights of the people to be free from tyranny.
The left has the zeal.
The right does not.
So you take a look at a really great example is during COVID, there was a dude who was working at Taco Bell who had a mask on that said Black Lives Matter.
And they said, you can't wear that.
It's political.
Take it off.
And he refused.
And they said, you don't take it off your fire.
And he says, then fire me.
So they fired him.
He went in his car and filmed a video saying, I refuse to back down.
So what did they do?
They reinstated him with an apology.
What did the right do?
Put the masks on and shut up.
Not everybody.
A lot of them were online complaining.
A lot of them refused to do it with respect.
But a lot of run-of-the-mill conservatives were online saying, I can't lose my job.
I have a family.
With respect.
I understand.
Just understand the advantage the left has at not having a family, but also being zealots.
You can take a thousand zealots with no guns and they will charge full speed at a regular, at an American soldier.
These leftists don't care that you're armed.
They're zealots.
cam higby
Do you think they also have less to lose?
I would imagine a lot of people.
A lot of them, right?
Like, there's a difference between losing a six-figure accounting job and losing your job at Taco Bell.
tim pool
No, but even conservatives wouldn't speak out.
cam higby
I agree with you.
I agree with you.
tim pool
The left sentiment is kill me, I dare you.
The right sentiment is, listen, I can't risk it.
And I'm not saying this to be derisive, but if conservatives, I'll just say this.
Many conservatives can't recognize that.
cam higby
You see that?
It's exactly what they're doing.
Assault me, assault me, kill me, shoot me.
That's what they're shouting in the streets right now.
It's literally shoot me, shoot me.
tim pool
Because they have zeal.
cam higby
Yeah, exactly.
tim pool
They're willing to throw themselves at a guy armed.
But the most important element is communications.
You can have a thousand people on the left and they have 10 guns, but they are networked and they will defeat 1,000 conservatives with guns who are not networked.
jorge ventura
And conservatives are really, really comfortable.
And really batted or even just covering Minneapolis, like my phone is just blown up with people saying, these have to be paid protesters.
And I'm not saying some are not.
They're not paid.
But they are so believing in their movement and the cause and the fight against it, the right that they're willing to walk out of their job today.
They're doing it again today for a general strike.
And I think the right needs to get that in their mind.
They think everyone has to be paid.
It's like, no, while you guys are chilling and watching football, you know, for the better of the meeting, just relax because Trump's in office.
They are working.
They're organizing.
They're impeding federal law enforcement immigrations.
I mean, they're literally winning.
cam higby
The number one thing that I've gotten as a sentiment from right-wingers after exposing Signalgate is like, hey, why are we not organized like that?
tim pool
I want to just enlighten all of the millennial conservatives who don't believe me.
I'll give you one very easy way to understand this.
And it's because you've all played video games like Final Fantasy or maybe even Mario RPG, whatever your favorite Square Enix RPG is.
And anybody who's ever played an RPG, or how about this, World of Warcraft?
When you do a 40-man raid, each individual in that raid is relatively weak, substantially weaker than the boss you're fighting.
Final Fantasy, you've got four characters and one boss, and he's got a million HP, and each of your guys has 10,000.
How is it possible that you win?
Because one person's healing the other guys while the other just beat him down with a thousand cuts.
So all of these conservatives who are like, they ain't going to win a war because I got guns.
Yes.
The thousand liberals who are networked against a thousand conservatives who are not networked, they focus fire you.
Ten guys show up to your house and surround you.
Guess what?
Now they have your guns.
You're one guy.
You didn't see it coming.
Nobody was doing neighborhood watch.
Now they don't have 10 guns.
They have 15 guns.
Then they focus fire the next non-networked conservative and take his guns and take his house.
And one by one, they focus fire.
That's how in an RPG, four weak characters defeat the God-tier boss in every single video game.
They're always designed around having a character who's substantially stronger than you, and you have a healer and you have a tank and then you have DPS.
The left has that network.
They have mutual aid, they call it.
What does that mean?
It means you can go and cut off their supply lines and they have a network of people who are going to make sure that all of their people are being cared for medically and given food.
And if a single individual conservative takes down their medical tent, they pop up another one somewhere else because they're instantly networked and they say, we just lost our medical zone.
We need a new one.
On The Front Lines 00:02:44
cam higby
Anecdote.
So when Alex Predi got shot, literally right down the road from where he got shot, where they were rioting when federal agents lined up in front of the scene of the shooting and they're just launching barrages of tear gas down the road.
I don't know if you were there, Jorge.
You probably were.
They all went into an alley that is literally 100 feet from where it happened and they all take cover inside of this Mexican restaurant.
Every person who walked into that Mexican restaurant knew the name of the owner.
tim pool
Yeah.
jorge ventura
Everyone.
cam higby
Your name is Tracy.
jorge ventura
And that's all the game.
cam higby
That's a random place.
They just knew it.
tim pool
How about this?
How about the moment Predty died within minutes, they formed a riot on their networks at everyone here now and they swarmed like a million.
cam higby
They had the riot there before he was shot and killed.
That's how he got shot because he was a part of the riot.
jorge ventura
When I got to the scene, Tim is that's when I captured that viral image of that armored truck.
And that's when all the protesters try to have their moment of trying to stop the armored truck.
And obviously it's all about optics.
They want to view themselves as being heard in image.
But yeah, it was just insane to kind of see it on fold.
tim pool
We're just about out of time, though.
So if you guys want to do any shout outs or final thoughts, Andrew, if you want to say anything or check anything out.
andrew branca
Just thanks for having me back.
If anyone's interested in seeing what I do, I'm just on YouTube and X at the Branca show, B-R-A-N-C-A.
By the way, I wanted to tell you guys, I'm sorry I got here a little bit late, but I'm huge fans of your work.
jorge ventura
Oh, thank you, man.
andrew branca
I love God's work.
I read everything you guys put on X.
It's fantastic.
I really, really appreciate that.
jorge ventura
Thank you, man.
cam higby
Thank you.
Yeah, you can find me on all platforms at Cam Higby.
YouTube and X are the primaries.
I'm out on the ground covering stuff and also doing some undercover stuff.
So yeah, that's what I'm up to.
jorge ventura
Yeah, and you can follow me on Instagram, Jorge Ventura TV and Ventura Reports on X on the front lines, breaking all the news.
I'm literally like after this podcast, flying right back into Minneapolis in the heat of it.
So I have a lot of good content right now on the Daily Caller News Foundation.
It feels good to be back, Tim.
It's been like four years for me.
I was part of that OG Riot squad with Richie.
Then I went into kind of the corporate media space, but finally out of there and have our freedom back.
But yeah, you know, back on the front lines, just really trying to drive the narrative.
You know, I big fan of Cam's work too.
And it's just like, it's us against really like the corporate media.
So even just being on Tim's show, highlighting the work is a big deal for us.
tim pool
We're doing everybody.
And of course, you can follow me on X and Instagram at Timcast.
TimCast IRL will be up tonight.
I'm not going to be here, though.
I'm flying out.
And then all next week, we've got guest hosts, celebrity guest hosts, because it's my anniversary.
So I'm taking the week.
But I will be doing the morning show.
So I can do that anywhere.
And it's going to be a lot of fun.
But for everybody who watched, thank you so much for hanging out.
Subscribe to this channel.
Share the show if you really like it.
Stick around for Timcast IRL at 8 p.m. And we'll see you all then.
Download and Listen 00:00:36
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