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July 8, 2025 - The Culture War - Tim Pool

35:06

Alex Jones BREAKS DOWN In Tears Over Trump Epstein COVER UP ft. Mike Cernovich

BUY CAST BREW COFFEE TO SUPPORT THE SHOW - https://castbrew.com/ Become A Member And Protect Our Work at http://www.timcast.com Host: Tim Pool @Timcast (everywhere) Guest: Mike Cernovich @Cernovich (X) My Second Channel - https://www.youtube.com/timcastnews Podcast Channel - https://www.youtube.com/TimcastIRL Alex Jones BREAKS DOWN In Tears Over Trump Epstein COVER UP

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	From MediaITE, I'm gonna go throw up.
	Alex Jones breaks down in tears while condemning Trump over the Epstein cover-up.
	Saying, they report conspiracy theorist Alex Jones broke down in tears in a video of himself reacting to the Trump admin memo about Jeffrey Epstein.
	There was no credible evidence found that Epstein blackmailed prominent individuals as part of his actions.
	Jones began his reaction video by speculating, the reason that you are seeing this deep sixth is because the CIA with the Mossad and MI6 was running Epstein, and it was an official U.S. government operation multinational.
	This appears to be the common opinion of many individuals.
	Epstein was working with Mossad, allowing the West great control of prominent political and business leaders.
	And now that they've taken the power themselves, they're like, we don't want to upset the power that we've gained.
	Basically, they have the one ring, and they could expose all these people, but it was an intelligence operation, so why give it up?
	Tucker Carlson says, there's two reasons.
	Maybe Donald Trump is implicated.
	He's on the list.
	But he says, I don't believe that for two reasons.
	I talked to Trump about it, and Trump isn't into this kind of stuff.
	Also, wouldn't the Democrats have released all that?
	That's a fair point.
	He says, however, he does have another theory, and that's CIA officers were blackmailed and implicated in the Epstein case, that prominent Intel agency individuals in the U.S. were engaged in child abuse with Epstein.
	And thus, they don't want to expose our own apparatus.
	But who are these CIA officials or agents?
	Perhaps it really means that high-ranking U.S. officials would be implicated if they released this, so they won't.
	Maybe.
	But, my friends, to get a better understanding of what's going on, we're going to be joined by Mike Cernovich, who helped expose all of this.
	He is the reason.
	I'd like to actually have you hear from him directly on his thoughts about all of this.
	So we're pulling in Mike right now.
	It is loading up.
	Mike, can you hear me?
	Yes, sir.
	Thank you for joining me.
	It's an honor to have you.
	My pleasure.
	So I was just explaining for a lot of people, I think most people do know, but some may not.
	It was your initial lawsuit that triggered the release of all of this and where we are today in the Epstein story.
	Am I wrong about that?
	No, that's exactly correct.
	Yeah, exactly correct.
	Do you want to just give us a real quick overview of how that started?
	Yeah, there was a civil lawsuit brought against Ghelaine Maxwell by Virginia Guffray, and that lawsuit had been completely under seal.
	All the documents were sealed.
	And because it was impossible to get any documents from the previous criminal Epstein case, we were able to file a motion to intervene and unseal the records in the civil case.
	And of course, the Miami Herald joined that lawsuit.
	And because of that, there was a real sense that the case file in Epstein would become public.
	And then the government, the deep state, SDNY, the regime, they had to figure out a way to mop it up, essentially.
	Wow.
	Okay.
	So throughout the past several years, there have been comments from victims, numerous victims, about the trafficking, a photo of Prince Andrew himself, flight logs, and questions about who was working with Epstein, who was facilitating this trafficking, helping him do it, and who was he trafficking these children to.
	But now we have this memo unsigned on the DOJ's website saying that there's nothing that would predicate criminal charges against third parties.
	There is no client list.
	What do you think is going on?
	And what's the truth with that stuff?
	The truth is definitely impossible to ascertain at this point.
	What I believe happened is that when the original Epstein criminal indictment happened, the raids were conducted in such a way as to give people time to mop up the operation.
	So I sent a couple tweets to Elizabeth about from 2019 where I was documenting in real time.
	That way people know that I'm not Monday morning quarterbacking all this stuff.
	What I noticed in the Epstein criminal case was one, he had only been arrested after the Court of Appeals made it clear that the civil case files that we talked about a minute ago were going to be unsealed.
	They realized, okay, cat's out of the bag.
	We can't do nothing.
	We have to do something.
	So then they arrested him as he was returning from Paris.
	And if you read the indictment closely, you'll see that they charged him with the minimal amount of criminal conduct that they possibly could.
	And because of that, they claimed that they could only raid the New York property.
	So for those at home, it's hard for me to keep track of this too.
	And you can correct me, Tim, because I'll probably leave one out.
	There was Epstein had a house in New Mexico that nobody ever talks about.
	He had a house in West Palm Beach that a lot of people know about, but most people know about the New York mansion.
	He had the place in Paris and he had the island.
	Maybe he had another one or two that I'm forgetting about, but these are the public ones.
	There's no indication that the Paris property was ever raided, even though he was arrested on his way back from Paris.
	So wait a minute, you're leaving Paris and you're arrested in New York, but you're not going to send a team to the Paris property.
	Less interesting.
	They searched his New York property, but then a number of people said, well, why didn't you search the West Palm Beach property?
	They didn't ask about the New Mexico one, which is interesting.
	Either they didn't know or there was a controlled hangout or limited hangout situation.
	Okay.
	The SDNY says, well, we didn't have jurisdiction to search the other properties.
	We only searched the New York one because that was where Epstein received the massages.
	Also, even though Ghelane Maxwell was later indicted and convicted, she was not indicted when Epstein was indicted.
	It wasn't a conspiracy against Epstein and Ghelane Maxwell, even though everybody knew that it was Ghelane was involved.
	It was only Epstein.
	It was only the New York property.
	So then what happened?
	Well, the Florida property, the New Mexico property, the Paris property, and the island were left unattended.
	And there were a lot of reports about people seeing boats going in to the Florida property because a lot of independent journalists went down there.
	They saw boats going in there.
	There were all these old stories that you can read about how there was a vault in the island property.
	Nobody knows where that vault is.
	So in my opinion, and this is what I said at the time of the indictment, what happened was that the New York prosecutors, SDNY, the Department of Justice under Bill Barr, realized, okay, the Miami Herald is going to get these files.
	Cernovich, we can call him a crank.
	You know, who cares?
	But now Miami Herald's in on it.
	What are we going to do?
	We got to do something.
	Okay.
	Oh, the files are going to come out on Monday.
	So if the timing of it was, I remember it so well because I was hanging out at home, I believe, on a Sunday, relaxing.
	My phone is like, well, they arrested Epstein.
	You know, this is right after we knew the files were going to be made public.
	So I'm like rushing.
	That was back when I was still doing live streaming and whatnot.
	And I rushed to talk about it.
	And I go, wait a minute, let me.
	And then I went to New York to cover the hearing.
	And I go, wait a minute.
	Look at what wasn't charged.
	Why did they not charge Ghelane at the time they charged Epstein?
	Why didn't they not charge him for all the conduct that took place in the island, the West Palm Beach, the New Mexico property?
	I go, oh, I know what they're doing.
	They're going to hit him with the minimum that they can do, knowing that most people won't look behind the headlines, knowing that if you actually read the indictment against Epstein, it says he paid girls for massages underage.
	That's a crime.
	I don't want anybody to say I'm not playing this crime, right?
	But compared to what he had done and was part of, that's minimal.
	And then they go, well, we can't wink, wink, nod, nod.
	Look at these other properties because we don't have jurisdiction.
	Even though SDNY indicted Steve Bannon for the El Paso rebuild the wall, somehow the SDNY says, we don't have jurisdiction over the whole world.
	Everybody who's a lawyer will tell you that's crazy.
	So what I think has happened, but Bongino and Cash, this is where I think they're right and they're wrong.
	I think that they're right that they don't know where the documents are and the files are, and that maybe there really is nothing.
	But what they don't want to say, and this is what I think people need to push back on, is there would be a chain of custody for everything that happened.
	Who, who, who?
	I need the FBI agents' names.
	I don't want an unsigned memo.
	I want to know.
	I do know during the raid of the New York property, they did find a bunch of CDRs.
	Somebody had pointed that posted that original search warrant application or indictment on Twitter.
	Well, who had it?
	They said they lost it.
	Okay, well, who had it last?
	Who had it last?
	And these are the kinds of questions that Bongino and Bondi and Cash, they need to answer it, frankly, because I do believe there might not be a lot of stuff left over, but we do need to see that chain of custody log.
	Well, there is the one big gap, the moment that Cash came out, I think it was on Joe Rogan's show and said, we've got the full video.
	Nobody enters or leaves the prison.
	And it's fascinating.
	I feel like a lot of what they do is hope that people only take a surface-level approach to it and then never actually look into it.
	The moment he said that, I said, then who found the body?
	I mean, somebody found him, right?
	Somebody went into that jail cell and they didn't film it.
	So there's, what, the guard looked in the window and found the body and ran off?
	Is that what happened?
	Who went in to check to make sure he was alive?
	If the argument they're making is that nobody went in or out, well, then the suspects are going to be the prison guards and the paramedics, right?
	Not to mention the video they just released has a minute missing, and you see people come and go.
	Yeah, there are a lot of irregularities.
	The guards were indicted and prosecuted, but ultimately I don't think they face major repercussions for that.
	You know, the oopsie there.
	What they expect is, and lawyers do this all the time.
	If you're a lawyer, you know these tricks.
	The trick of the trade is you always want, lawyers always want people to draw false inferences.
	So they'll say, I was at Tim's house and I saw something, you know, scandalous.
	But I don't mention I saw it after I left Tim's house.
	I just say, well, I mean, I was at Tim's house and then I saw, you know, somebody tied up in a trunk of a car.
	It's like, well, no, but that was a week later.
	And then you expect people to infer falsely.
	That's what's happening here is, well, we don't have any files.
	Oh, that must mean, because then people go, oh, that must mean the files were destroyed or the files never existed.
	No, no, no.
	I do not have any files.
	I know where to look for them.
	I do know that I've offered repeatedly to bring in a team of people, active lawyers, to run through all the files.
	I do know that everybody and their mother from the New York Times, the Washington Post to you, to Daily Wire, to Candace, bring everybody in.
	Bring everybody in.
	Make them.
	And I said this.
	So this is not stuff that we just came up with today.
	I go make everybody sign in NDA that they will not disclose the names of any victims or alleged victims.
	Otherwise, make everybody compete for a scoop.
	Man, it'd be feeding frenzy, right?
	And then you'd have every angle covered.
	You couldn't say, oh, Daily Wire, they're covering up.
	You know, they're covering up things.
	You have everybody in there.
	Why not do that?
	Right.
	So you have to look at what they're not doing to fully interrogate the Epstein case in the falls.
	So with a chain of custody, somebody, when he's arrested and when he's charged, there are documents and there's information.
	And because he was charged, we are going to have written proof that somebody received all those documents and that evidence.
	The argument, I suppose, is that at some point they say it was lost and we don't know how.
	Would the argument then be that individual would be criminally charged for loss of government?
	Like, how would you handle that if they just said, yeah, that was me, but I brought it to my boss's office and then I don't know what happened to it?
	At least then we know, right?
	That's the whole point.
	There's a way to handle things with transparency.
	The way I would handle it, and again, we had requested a presidential envoy where you had full subpoena power and you could put people under oath, is you would just say, cool, we're putting everybody under oath and we're not going to interview in Washington, D.C., where we know that the jury will nullify you.
	We're going to bring you to West Virginia and a field office in West Virginia, and we're going to interview you under oath.
	And if you lie, you're going to be prosecuted.
	And we need to see what everything was signed off, and we need to see the last person who had it.
	And then you would just report that.
	And sorry if that ruins the career of an FBI agent by his name being public.
	Whoop-de-doo.
	You blew it.
	I guess the challenge right now is the memo that they put out, it's unsigned, and it was informal.
	It wasn't listed, as far as I could tell, on the DOJ website, but it is hosted on the DOJ website.
	So if you get the link, then you can punch it in and see justice.gov.
	Nobody signed off on it.
	We don't know who wrote it.
	There's no seal.
	So where did it come from?
	I believe Cash has maintained even before getting in that he thought Epstein killed himself.
	And now he's saying the same thing.
	But it does seem like the Trump administration is very poorly handling this, whatever it may be, leading many to believe that they are intentionally covering it up.
	People are tweeting that Trump and Cash, Dan, and Pam, they're the deep state.
	Why did Pam Bondi say phase one, give out these binders, and then there's no phase two?
	What's going on?
	Yeah.
	Yeah, we were told when we were in the White House, we were given these binders.
	And then after there was a photo walk, which I do think was accidental, the people, you know, it's weird when you're in the middle of conspiracy theory.
	I even have people saying like, oh, wow, you've covered up the Epstein stuff.
	It's like, you're only talking about this because of me, right?
	You Muppet.
	That's the only reason you're talking about this, right?
	And I believe that when you're walking out, a world leader is coming in.
	We ran out of time because when we were in the building and you were there, we talked, I think, that same night or the next night.
	The Kier Starmer's people were kicking us out of the office that we were in.
	They were like, we need it.
	They were waiting.
	So you're walking out and you're like, you see them waiting.
	And then you walk and then we're going to move up to the Eisenhower building.
	So this is happening.
	I wish I had a GoPro.
	You're walking and then you just see all these people like, you know, they're there for the other event.
	And then they see everybody with these binders.
	But of course it looks the way it looks, which is why conspiracy theories get legs, which is why I didn't mind explaining it to you at Shelly's backroom with the cigar night to explain it.
	I didn't like, I'm tired of explaining it to other people now, to every idiot, you know, who replies to me on Twitter.
	But I go here, transparently, here's what happened.
	I gave Ian the binder.
	You know, you can read everything.
	There's no secrets here.
	Why am I giving more transparency than the FBI and the DOJ are giving?
	Do you think that there's a lot of wild theories, but I'm curious what your thoughts are as to why, like, first of all, do you actually believe that Cash and Net are being honest when they say Epstein killed himself?
	I think they looked terrified.
	I agree.
	They look terrified.
	We can infer what we will from that, but I've never seen them.
	These people are media people that have been on camera how many tens of thousands of hours?
	And they're like this, right?
	And I don't know what that's about.
	I, frankly, I personally, personally don't believe that Epstein killed himself, but maybe he did.
	Maybe he did.
	But if I were going to prove that he did it, I would have just, I would have released a suicide video.
	Remember, Bill Barr was originally the guy who claimed that he killed himself.
	And Bill Barr said, I've seen the video of him hanging himself.
	Okay, why don't we have the video?
	And then you find out Bill Barr, either his dad or there was some weird connection to the Epstein school.
	The thing is weird, man.
	I was thinking about this the other day because my wife asked me these questions.
	She doesn't really like live online.
	And she's like, well, what, you know, what is it?
	And I go, well, that's what everybody's texting each other back and forth.
	Everybody, and then she'll ask you perfectly reasonable questions.
	And it's like frustrating because you're like, I don't know.
	I don't know what to tell you guys.
	I don't know.
	Well, is it some intelligence community thing?
	All I know is that Dan Mongino and Cash are as good as it gets.
	They look like they were doing a hostage video.
	Cash is saying on Joe Rogan, if you have any information, call us.
	Call the tip line.
	That's not how the FBI works, man.
	We don't have documents we should have.
	The original search warrant application that was filed is under seal.
	That would be revealing.
	I've been told by a source that the warrant is very narrow, which would hold up to my theory.
	So my theory is my working theory.
	I don't think it's a conspiracy theory.
	I think it's what any lawyer would conclude based on all available rational evidence, is that the Epstein stuff was all covered up.
	He was running around living his best life, hanging out with Bill Gates and Reed Hoffman at his island.
	Here's another thing I was thinking about, man.
	Cut me off if I'm just rambling.
	No, I'll get it, get it.
	I was thinking about this, like, in reference to like the Puff Daddy thing.
	I go, you know, never in my life has anyone ever been like, oh, we're going to a baby oil party.
	Right?
	It just in my secular way.
	People might say, let's go to Cabo or, you know, maybe you'll roll or, you know, go to EDC or something.
	And I'm just like going through it.
	I'm like, you know, no, nobody, nobody talks like that.
	Even my most degenerate friends.
	Oh, these people have the best parties.
	It's all so very bizarre.
	And that's, of course, why, because it's bizarre to me.
	And I'm a pretty level-headed guy because I'm thinking, yeah, nobody in the, nobody talks like this except the media and Hollywood people.
	And then they talk about, you know, there was a bunch of Steve Harvey videos that were deleted where he's talking about baby oil.
	And you're like, Steve Harvey?
	You know, how is this a normal thing?
	You know, and what is it even talking about?
	And that's why people, I think, who are people lose their minds a little bit, because it's just not normal.
	Even if you were a partier doing drugs and things, nobody talks like this.
	Nobody's like, hey, let's go to an island.
	That doesn't happen.
	People have yacht parties.
	People, you know, nobody does it.
	Even if you're a partier, that's not, there's no like code.
	You would just say you want to like go roll in conversation.
	I mean, this, this is, it feels like this is parallel reality or this parallel culture that exists in what you're describing.
	So, you know, we go down to Miami with the crew for a show or something.
	And we were, I can't remember why we were down.
	We've done it several times.
	We rent a large yacht and then we go out in the water and we got jet skis and we got those little things you hold where you dive and it like pulls you under.
	We're partying, we're playing live music.
	It costs five grand.
	What you learn is that private planes are private, private jets are usually fleets that are owned by a company that people either have a share of or pay a one-time fee on.
	It is rare that someone owns a jet.
	Very few people do.
	It is rare that someone owns a massive yacht.
	They're usually just charters.
	And then you hear these stories about these crazy parties in DC, you know, Barack Obama bringing in $30,000 worth of hot dogs and pizza, baby oil parties in private islands.
	And I'll clarify too, the pizza and hot dogs thing, to me sounds like Obama was buying Chicago pizza and hot dogs because that's the famous food in Chicago.
	We've got Maxwell Street, you've got Portillo's.
	But my point ultimately is it is a very small and obscure group of people that own islands and planes and jets like this that spend 30, 50 grand to fly in their rare foods.
	Even in D.C., even among the people that I've met, it's never brought up.
	Hey, you know what we're going to do?
	We're going to ship in 50 grand worth of food for this private party.
	It's only us.
	And you want to come on our 100-foot yacht?
	Never heard that.
	So you make an interesting point about who's going on the island and how this stuff exists.
	And I guess when you bring it up, it makes me think that there is a parallel society of small, well-connected individuals that know all of this stuff, that talk this way, and they never tell anybody else.
	And what is that?
	You know?
	Right.
	That's the thing.
	I know billionaires.
	I'm, you know, friends with billionaires.
	I'm friends with, you know, whoop-de-doo.
	There's a lot of billionaires.
	Nobody says that.
	They might say we're going to have caviar.
	I've never been invited to a pizza party.
	Never.
	Never.
	And nobody says they're bringing in $50,000 of anything.
	Trump brought in McDonald's.
	Even the Nova rich.
	Yeah, even the Nova Rich don't talk like that.
	Let me tell you about a party.
	I went to a party on the upper west side of New York, and they were like, it was a bunch of millionaires and billionaires.
	It was like 10 years ago.
	And so they said, everyone's going to bring a bottle of liquor, of whatever, hard liquor.
	And I said, okay, well, I'll see what I can afford.
	I'm like, wow.
	So I bought Maker's Mark.
	They were all shocked and impressed.
	They went, wow, you brought Maker's Mark?
	They were bringing in like Absolute and Jack Daniels.
	Nobody spent any of this money.
	These were wealthy New York individuals.
	Nobody was like, I'm going to drop 10 grand on a big bottle of Louis or anything.
	It just didn't happen.
	So we know it does happen and these big parties do exist, but it is a weird parallel universe where Diddy's having baby oil freak offs and people know what they're going to, but no one learns about it until what, like 20 years later in this court case, for which he's ultimately found largely not guilty.
	So I don't know.
	Yeah.
	And then you watch these video compilations where they're like, oh, pizza parties.
	It's like, dude, I got four kids.
	I don't talk.
	I've never, I've never talked like this.
	You might say, come on over.
	You know, we're going to have food or whatever.
	It's just, it again is all so bizarre when you watch these video compilations or you see Ellen talking like this and you think this is, yeah, it does start to become really strange, especially because, you know, one thing, a lot of people on Twitter will, you know, talk down or act like they know something, but I like, I'm friends with billionaires.
	You know, wow, wow.
	You know, that's not a flex.
	Who cares?
	I just know how billionaires talk.
	I know how famous people talk.
	None of them talk like this.
	None of them talk about baby oil parties.
	So do you think there's a possibility?
	One of the theories is that Trump now has the one ring effectively.
	He has the blackmail.
	He knows all of this.
	And they're thinking, you know, if we release this, we're going to lose our leverage over these powerful individuals.
	So Trump says, okay, let's not release it.
	Let's use it.
	Do you think there's a possibility there?
	No, a 0% chance, especially because Trump barely even knew about the Epstein case his first term.
	Remember, I remember all the SDNY was doing this all under Trump's watch, which is why people like me were, which is why I think it's funny.
	People are like, oh, yeah, Trump's on the list.
	And that's why he's hiding.
	It's like, I'd be the first one to say it.
	Go read everything I wrote during Trump's first term.
	You know, people, it's like they found it.
	And I don't think it's sad at all.
	What I think it is, is that Trump has not taken a personal interest in it the way he should have.
	He doesn't understand how important it is to people.
	Here's what I don't get, though.
	If their goal was really to cover this up, they're doing the worst job imaginable.
	I don't get it.
	That's why I was talking to Pesobic or somebody, and all I could think was, why give Elon fuel on his fire?
	Just everybody's worried about Elon.
	Why do this?
	And then why do it in this manner?
	And then expect people to say, okay, we've done it.
	So I honestly believe that the only real conclusion, because again, I'm tired of people telling me that Reid Hoffman and Bill Gates went down to the island to hang out.
	Billionaires don't do that.
	They don't do it.
	I can just tell you, appeal to authority.
	You know, Douglas Murray knows billionaires.
	I bet you Douglas Murray, an expert on billionaires, would tell you they don't live this way.
	Okay.
	They're not doing this.
	Unless you're in Dubai and that's a whole different, you know, separate case where people do those weird parties with theirs.
	This is not what just billionaires do.
	Okay.
	So anybody saying that can stop it.
	Something was going on there.
	People can say, what?
	I don't know.
	I know Luke went there.
	He said it looked weird.
	I know that there was a submarine, some weird submarine nonprofit.
	I didn't even believe that.
	To be honest, I found...
	No, just what do you think is the most like, why do Cash and Dan look scared?
	What do you think the end of this is?
	Epstein was intelligent, so they can't reveal it or something?
	I mean, if you want to go there, I think there's a breakaway ruling class that's above everything else, and that they harvest the energy of children demonically for their own like ritual.
	I mean, if you want on like what I really believe, like I, I believe, like that hideous strength is direct, you know, by C.S. Lewis is like directionally true.
	And that what we see is that's why when people, people saw a video where I go, I don't think it's Masad, just Mossad.
	They go, oh, wow, they're Cerno, the Zio cuck.
	I was like, no, watch the whole video.
	If it were Mossad, you wouldn't be able to say it was Masad.
	You're allowed to say it's Mossad because that doesn't threaten anything.
	Go say it's Mossad.
	Nobody's getting Eric Weinstein was saying it was Mossad.
	Look at what they censored on YouTube.
	Look at YouTube would delete the video when Eric Charomella was blowing the whistle on Trump, blowing the whistle.
	If you even posted the name on Facebook, they would delete your post without warning.
	There were things they would not let you say.
	And so, you know, I don't, I don't, you can say, yeah, you can say all days, Massad.
	Nobody cares.
	Yeah.
	Say that.
	Well, why?
	Because there's a superstructure, and it could be the royal family, the trillionaires.
	You know, maybe it's not literally demons, but there's a superstructure that exists.
	It could be the ancient banking families.
	We don't really know.
	But it isn't, oh, it's just the intelligence community.
	Whooped-doo.
	Like, you know, Peter Teal made a good point in the Joe Rogan podcast, and people forget this is people have gone to prison for spying on behalf of Israel.
	I think Pollard was one of the famous cases.
	It's not like the people in the intelligence community are like, they're so afraid of ever saying anything.
	You see it all the time.
	If you watch podcasts, even the guy with the big hair, the ex-CIA guy, he criticizes Mossad.
	You know, everybody, it's such low-hanging fruit.
	And that's why I know that's not non-threatening because I know that when I talk to you and you're on YouTube, if I'm about, you know, there are words that I'll spell out, like the vaccine.
	You know, you got to spell it out because if you don't, the algorithm is going to pick it up.
	But nobody's like saying, oh, wow, you said Epstein Massage.
	We better filter that.
	So this is something I'm certain of.
	What it is, I don't know, but something that I'm certain of is there exists a superstructure that's above the intelligence community.
	It's above Trump.
	It may be natural.
	It could be something as simple as the trillionaires and the ancient banking families, the Knights of Templar kind of stuff.
	I think it's whatever.
	I agree there's some kind of superstructure.
	I don't know what it would be, but I do believe it's probably still within a governmental system of sorts.
	Because if it was an ancient banking family type scenario, I think the power and influence they have is confusing.
	If you're Dan Bongino, he's a smart guy, and you say, he said on Timcast IRL that Epstein was believed to be some kind of Middle Eastern intelligence, everyone laughs, oh, Middle Eastern, we get it.
	You go into the FBI and then something rattles you to the bone to the point where you say, he killed himself.
	And when he said it, it didn't sound, he sounded kind of a little forced, you know, I don't know.
	What would a human being be scared of to say something they believe is not true?
	If someone you've never heard of or met before says, I'm a trillionaire, say this or else, you'd be like, oh, nice tribe, buddy.
	Screw off.
	But if there was someone who could command authority and they said, we will take your home from you and we will take your children from you, that's something tangible to a human being.
	Unless, of course, it really is magic demons and aliens or whatever, and he saw a spaceship float over his head.
	I think it's more likely that there is a structure within government that is easily discernible to the average person that says, you will lose everything unless you do as you're told.
	No, you don't back down cash and Bongino.
	You've had people try to kill you at your Harper Ferry place, okay?
	I've had people try to kill me.
	I've had credible threats like that.
	You have.
	Get real.
	You know, like, what do we do?
	We're going to chicken out.
	Everybody's going to chicken out.
	Bongino and them is going to chicken out if it's only somebody from the deep state.
	You would make that public so quick.
	But let me clarify.
	I'm saying a superstructure above government that is just that the authority is discernible.
	The abilities are discernible.
	Like, I don't understand how an unnamed banking trillionaire could be more terrifying than realizing you are a figurehead in a system and have no authority and control and they can destroy you and everyone you love in a moment.
	Like, what could a banking trillionaire do?
	I mean, I can think of a scenario.
	I, you know, hey, Tim, you know, you're Bongino.
	Let's get on the FBI plane.
	We're going to fly, you know, to Europe.
	They fly you over somewhere.
	You go underground.
	You're in some kind of eyes wide shut party.
	Right?
	Do you have people?
	You have people wearing the, you ever see those old pictures where they're wearing all those weird masks?
	That's all true, true pictures.
	You have people coming out like that.
	If an FBI agent or a general or somebody threatened me, I would say, bring it on, dude.
	Bring it on.
	You put me.
	I'm thinking I'm going one place and you put me because I've had a couple of imitations before that I never went because I was like, I don't know what's going to happen here.
	You know, it's like a squid gang thing.
	Squid gangs.
	You're riding in a limo.
	They gash you.
	You wake up and you're looking at some eyes wide shut thing.
	I consider myself above average courageous.
	I end up somewhere like that.
	Maybe they have you laid down like that, stripped down, and they're about to carve something into you.
	You get the point.
	You get the memo.
	Yeah.
	I don't know.
	I don't know.
	I guess we'll never know.
	I guess we'll have to find out.
	But we are a bit over time.
	I do definitely want to talk a lot more about this because it's getting really interesting now.
	So maybe we should set something up and go and do a deep dive on the superstructure.
	And that'd be pretty awesome.
	But Mike, it's an honor and privilege to have you.
	Thanks for joining me.
	Where can people find you?
	On X or mikecernovich.substack.com.
	Right on, man.
	Well, thanks for hanging out, and we'll see you next time.
	Always a pleasure, brother.
	Take care.
	That, of course, was Mike Cernovich.
	And as we pointed out in the beginning of that interview, he launched a lawsuit that was ultimately joined by the Miami Herald and then resulted in this whole thing taking off.
	But we do, I need to make sure I get you guys over to our good friend, Russell Brand, who I believe should be gearing up to go live.
	Let's pull up his link.
	Make sure you guys smash the like button.
	Share the show with everyone you know.
	I think Mike is, let me say this real quick.
	He said that there's an eyes wide shut, kind of like trillionaire ancient banking family, maybe.
	And he disagrees with me.
	I said I believe it was still discernibly within the government.
	What I'm saying is I think he may be right about some kind of superstructure, a deep state that's more powerful than people realize.
	But when he says an FBI agent or someone coming at you threatening your family, it's not going to scare you.
	I'm saying it's more powerful than that.
	But it's reasonably and discernibly attached to the structure of governance.
	Like we control this in ways you don't even understand.
	So I actually think it really is quite simple for a lot of people.
	They tell you, we can do more damage than you realize.
	We can economically obliterate cities.
	We can destroy you in ways that are not just about your life.
	But what scares a human?
	Like a human being, if someone came, like I agree with Mike, that if someone came to Dan or Cash or me or anybody else and said, we're going to kill you, it doesn't really phase us.
	If they threaten our family, we bolster our security.
	But what if there was a structure of government that was more powerful than that?
	What if the superstructure is, we have technology you don't even understand?
	We can snap our fingers and you simply have a heart attack.
	What if it's something like that?
	I don't know.
	Maybe it's all just fanciful nonsense.
	Maybe Epstein was just a Mossad MI6 guy and they're covering it up and they went to Dan and Cash and said, this will cause damage to the U.S. that we don't want to accept.
	It could be as simple as that.
	We'll see.
	I definitely am going to pursue having that conversation with Mike.
	That would be a great culture war episode.
	Really interesting stuff, but I'm going to leave it there.
	Thanks for hanging out, everybody.
	We're back tonight at 8 p.m. for Timcast IRL.
	Come hang out.

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