BUY CAST BREW COFFEE TO SUPPORT THE SHOW - https://castbrew.com/ Become A Member And Protect Our Work at http://www.timcast.com Host: Tim Pool @Timcast (everywhere) Guest: Robby Starbuck @RobbyStarbuck (X) My Second Channel - https://www.youtube.com/timcastnews Podcast Channel - https://www.youtube.com/TimcastIRL
| Speaker | Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| Before we grab Robby for this interview, we'll take a look at what the story is. | ||
| From FoxBusiness.com, Robby Starbuck says it's too late for Meta to apologize after AI chatbot allegedly defamed him. | ||
| I think it's funny that they put allegedly in here. | ||
| When Robby can show the receipts, Robby Starbuck is standing firm in his lawsuit against Meta after its chatbot allegedly defamed him for almost a year, saying the time for apology is over. | ||
| It's too late to solve this with an apology. | ||
| It's been nearly a year people doxed my kids. | ||
| The anti-DEI crusader alleged that Meta's AI chatbot gave users false and defamatory statements about him, wrongly claiming he's a white supremacist who was arrested as part of the January 6th Capitol riots in a lawsuit filed in Delaware Superior Court Tuesday. | ||
| Starbuck alleged the lies about his record and character, including demands that he lose custody of his children by the chatbot. | ||
| The case is wild and has implications for all of us. | ||
| On top of falsely calling me a criminal, Meta suggested my kids be taken from me. | ||
| Shortly after Starbuck announced the lawsuit, Meta's chief global affairs officer, Joel Kaplan, wrote that he watched Starbuck's video and called the situation unacceptable. | ||
| He apologized and vowed to get to the root of the problem. | ||
| Quote, Robbie, I watched your video. | ||
| This is unacceptable. | ||
| This is clearly not how our AI should operate. | ||
| We're sorry for the results it shared about you and that the fix we put in place didn't address the underlying problem. | ||
| I'm working now with our product team to understand how this happened and explore potential situations. | ||
| This is nuts. | ||
| Starbucks says it's too little too late. | ||
| I don't think the company operated in good faith by the way they handled this. | ||
| Now, we are going to pull in, Robbie, in just a second to go over all this, but I just want to say right away, one of the conundrums that we've been dealing with in AI, We have just witnessed the opening moment that has been warned about for a long time as it pertains to AI. | ||
| And that is, who is responsible for a situation in which the self-driving vehicle damages someone else? | ||
| To save another person. | ||
| It is the trolley problem right in front of us. | ||
| If that car had not moved, the man who fell in the road would have been crushed. | ||
| And the car that got hit suffered pretty significant damage, but I don't think anybody was severely hurt. | ||
| But the person who was driving the car who now has the damage to their vehicle, they did nothing wrong. | ||
| The accident wasn't their fault. | ||
| Who's responsible for the damage? | ||
| These questions are going to persist for some time. | ||
| And there's going to have to be law and precedent set. | ||
| Now, my view is simply this. | ||
| If you use a tool, be it a, you know, let's call it AI technology is no different than a power drill. | ||
| If you accidentally hurt somebody with a power drill or a nail gun, it's the same as if you put a nail on their leg and, you know what I mean, like hit them with the nail. | ||
| In this regard, Meta, I believe, is completely responsible for exactly what their AI is saying. | ||
| And this presents a very interesting scenario in that there's no way for these companies to know for sure that the AI large language model will be saying things that are true and correct. | ||
| In this instance, we are dealing with defamation per se. | ||
| That is, they accused Robbie Starbuck of committing a crime. | ||
| This isn't just an accidental, we saw a news outlet, a news article. | ||
| This is them explicitly stating that he is a criminal who went to jail when he never did. | ||
| So we're going to grab Robbie right now and pull him in. | ||
| Robbie, can you hear me? | ||
| Yeah, how are you doing, Tim? | ||
| How's it going? | ||
| What's the latest? | ||
| It's going well. | ||
| Obviously, I'm not in a jail cell, not a criminal, despite what Meta says, but it's going well. | ||
| I mean, I'm confident in our case. | ||
| I think it's the single best case to prove AI defamation that there has ever been. | ||
| It's especially helpful that Meta has now admitted wrongdoing, which I'm not sure I've ever seen in the middle of a lawsuit. | ||
| I'm not sure I've ever seen a company who's being sued for defamation. | ||
| Coming out and saying, yeah, actually, we did that. | ||
| Sorry about that. | ||
| But it's nine months too late. | ||
| Nine months ago, they had a chance to publicly apologize and fix this together. | ||
| But it's been nine months. | ||
| In that time range, my kids have been doxxed. | ||
| Every single one of them had their full names doxxed, our address and contact. | ||
| We've had to have police here because of increasing death threats. | ||
| In fact, a man was recently arrested in Oregon who had desired to murder me. | ||
| And you've got people walking up to me on the streets believing these lies. | ||
| So yeah, it's a little too late to apologize and think that's going to solve things. | ||
| There needs to be a serious fix and meta needs to pay for | ||
| Are you requesting a specific amount of damages? | ||
| We sued for an excess of $5 million, which is essentially kind of like how you have to do this in the state we sued in, which is Delaware, which is the appropriate venue because of the way that Meta's set up. | ||
| But, you know, that's something for a jury to really decide in terms of punitive damages. | ||
| You know, we actually asked Meta's AI yesterday what it thought appropriate damages were, and I posted a video of that conversation. | ||
| And Meta's AI said that appropriate settlement at this point would be somewhere between $50 and $100 million. | ||
| And it said that if it went to a jury, with all damages put together, including punitive damages, that it estimated meta-risk damages in excess of $1 billion. | ||
| And also, it was interesting, it was asked what it thought about our chances of winning in court, and it believed that we would win in court in all likelihood, that we had a very strong case. | ||
| So that's their own AI trained to be able to analyze legal cases, and that was its analysis. | ||
| You know, it's interesting. | ||
| It's hard to kind of put a figure on this, but I do know that juries out there... | ||
| They tend to not be big fans of major companies, you know, picking on citizens and, you know, sort of acting outside the bounds of what we all consider appropriate. | ||
| And I think everybody understands on every side of the political spectrum that it's not appropriate to go around accusing people of being criminals with absolutely no basis in fact or reality. | ||
| That's defamation per se. | ||
| That's a lot of people will armchair lawyer these stories. | ||
| I see the posts on X all the time where they're like, you know, you actually can't sue because | ||
| Because you're a public figure and you can't prove damages, etc., etc. | ||
| But this is they accused you of committing a crime and going to jail, going to prison for it, which is actually one of the basic criteria for what's called defamation per se, in which you don't actually have to prove damages. | ||
| But let me slow down. | ||
| I want to ask you, how did this all start? | ||
| When did it start? | ||
| How did you get defamed? | ||
| So the start is actually really interesting. | ||
| This started nine months ago when I was exposing the DEI slash woke policies at Harley-Davidson, which was a very successful campaign. | ||
| Changing DEI policy. | ||
| They're wiping it out completely. | ||
| And their CEO has now been moved out. | ||
| You know, he's gone and they're getting a new CEO. | ||
| And in fact, a board member came out and resigned in part because they said they so badly mishandled the situation with me last summer. | ||
| But there was one unhappy Harley-Davidson dealership from Bernie Sanders State of Vermont who decided to try to publicly attack me. | ||
| And when they did that, they used a screenshot from Metis.ai. | ||
| And that screenshot included some of these lies that Metis.ai has told about me. | ||
| That's how I found out about it initially. | ||
| So I did the responsible thing. | ||
| I immediately, and I mean immediately that day, had my lawyers contact Meta. | ||
| I also contacted executives at Meta and let them know what was happening. | ||
| My hope was we could have a very quick resolution to it. | ||
| We were not asking for any damages at that point. | ||
| We were saying, hey. | ||
| We need to fix this for everybody so this never happens again. | ||
| Let's be a part of the solution and get this fixed and get this right. | ||
| And we want an apology publicly and a retraction. | ||
| They did not do those things. | ||
| They did not fix this situation appropriately. | ||
| And to be really candid, their lawyer kind of gave the runaround to my lawyers. | ||
| And it was sometimes days at a time before they responded to my lawyer. | ||
| And, you know, it's just simply unacceptable. | ||
| And again, you go back to what makes up a successful defamation case to prove defamation per se. | ||
| And again, we gave them the chance to fix this and they continued for nine months to defame me and invent new lies even. | ||
| Most recently, this last week, it said that I was a danger to my own children essentially and that authorities should consider taking my children from | ||
| on me and putting them in the care of somebody who is more accepting of DEI and transgenderism. | ||
| That is absolutely insane. | ||
| And it continued to tell the lies about me being a criminal. | ||
| So the first defamation, I think it said that you were at J6, you were arrested and charged and convicted. | ||
| What was the full scope of what it said about you? | ||
| Yeah, it said I was arrested first. | ||
| It actually, it was sort of interesting. | ||
| It went in incremental stages. | ||
| First, I was arrested. | ||
| Then I was charged with disorderly conduct. | ||
| Then I was filming inside there, and my footage was used by the House Select Committee investigating Jay Sixth. | ||
| Then it was that I pled guilty to the crime on January 6th, okay? | ||
| So it went through various stages of inventing these things, and, you know, I think that speaks to sort of the malice involved here. | ||
| And in fact, Meta's AI, when confronted with the facts, recently admitted that this was malicious in nature. | ||
| So that's something, you know, when you're given the facts of it and you understand that they had the chance to fix this and they continued with it, that's where, you know, it becomes unavoidable that this was clearly malicious. | ||
| And, you know, that wasn't where it ended. | ||
| By the way, we're in receipt of something. | ||
| We're still vetting it. | ||
| But if it's real, it's and we believe it is. | ||
| It's actually more crimes that somebody got evidence of, Meta's AI saying that I committed. | ||
| So we're vetting that and checking it right now, but it appears to be legitimate on first look. | ||
| But even if it's not, let's pretend it's not. | ||
| What they've done leading up to this was bad enough. | ||
| I mean, they framed me as a criminal. | ||
| I've never committed a crime in my life. | ||
| I have never been accused of a crime in my life, never charged for anything. | ||
| I haven't even had like a parking ticket in over 10 years, okay? | ||
| This is something that you just can't do to people, especially, and you know this is a public figure, Tim. | ||
| We expect people who are kind of crazy, fringy to make up stuff, right? | ||
| People who are like, they've got 10 followers, they're just a random person, and they might just hate us and make up some crazy stuff. | ||
| What we don't expect, because no reasonable person would, would be that one of the largest companies on the face of the earth would engage in this, would invent crimes about you, and would continue to do so after your lawyers have told them they need to stop. | ||
| Have you guys explored a Section 230 angle to this? | ||
| Is there anything in your lawsuit pertaining to that? | ||
| They don't have any ability to claim Section 230 on this. | ||
| There's no protection for them. | ||
| They are the publisher. | ||
| The way they hide behind this when it comes to Facebook posts and things like that, they're doing that because somebody else posted it. | ||
| This is their product. | ||
| They published this. | ||
| They invented it. | ||
| Not us. | ||
| In fact... | ||
| I think everybody knows at this point I have a pretty damn good research team. | ||
| And we went into the weeds. | ||
| We checked every corner of the web that we could find to try to find some instance of something on the internet claiming that I was arrested on January 6th that I was there. | ||
| Because again, by the way, I wasn't even there. | ||
| I was in Tennessee on January 6th, 2021. | ||
| So we tried to find some instance of somebody claiming this. | ||
| There is not one instance we could find of anyone claiming this, which begs the question, how was the AI trained? | ||
| Where did it even come up with this information that it invented? | ||
| Because, to me, that could be even more malicious than we already know it is. | ||
| Did somebody train it to do this? | ||
| If so, why and how? | ||
| You know, these are all questions we figure out in Discovery, but I think that process is going to be an uncomfortable one for Meta. | ||
| If you think about Discovery in a lawsuit like this, we need to see the algorithms. | ||
| We need to see the training materials. | ||
| We need to see exactly what led up to this and how deep this goes. | ||
| This is bigger than just defamation, man. | ||
| I was thinking, as you were saying, it's exactly what I was thinking. | ||
| This is presumably, and I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt, they built an AI, they trained it off information, but I think they're probably training it off of their own data feeds, meaning Facebook posts from random people. | ||
| This gets fed into a system which, as you mentioned, the reason I asked about Section 230, and just to clarify for those that aren't familiar, Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act is effectively used as a liability shield for these big social media companies and web platforms to say, you can't sue me, | ||
| someone else said it. | ||
| But in this instance, with the advent of Grok and Meta AI, these big platforms are now aggregating social media content and turning that into their publications, which opens the door for tons of precedent pertaining to... | ||
| Liability shields, but also this is – it's turning it into their speech where you now are going to get into the back door. | ||
| This case, as you just mentioned, I want to reiterate this. | ||
| The discovery process is going to force open how they're building this AI. | ||
| I think that's going to be – this is, I mean, possibly one of the biggest cases we're going to see as it pertains to this technology. | ||
| Has this been like a big focal point? | ||
| Let me phrase it this way. | ||
| The reason why I asked about Section 230 is that this is not just simply defamation. | ||
| You're dealing with revolutionary technology that every major company and government is desperately trying to build up. | ||
| And you have just opened the door to a major detriment for these companies, which could shape how the government treats them, how they're able to build this technology. | ||
| Have you and your legal team talked about that? | ||
| Consider the ramifications of anything like that? | ||
| Yeah, absolutely. | ||
| I mean, there's the opportunity to set precedent here, you know, in terms of safeguards for AI. | ||
| Because don't get me wrong, I have a lot of optimism about certain areas of AI. | ||
| But AI without guardrails, without any sort of semblance of rules and there being an ethical way of handling this when it comes to the reputations of actual people, I mean, it's incredibly dangerous if you just let it run wild. | ||
| And I think we have to have some standard that is in place that says, hey, we're holding you to the same accountability standards we would hold anybody else's product to. | ||
| And that's all we're asking for here. | ||
| And I think, you know, what's interesting is I've seen no legal scholar make an argument that we will lose in court. | ||
| In fact, every major legal scholar I have seen comment on this and every minor one as well has said, damn, this is the case. | ||
| They do not want to fight because they so thoroughly failed in how they handled this when they were given the opportunity to fix it, that this fits every standard. | ||
| Right. And I think that's really the important thing here is that they failed along the entire path here for nine months to do the right thing. | ||
| And keep in mind, there's something very unique and interesting here. | ||
| You know, I'm not a legal scholar by any stretch of the imagination, but I do follow things pretty closely. | ||
| I have never seen a company apologize in an active lawsuit for defamation when they're being sued for defamation. | ||
| I've never seen that in my life. | ||
| And so how is that going to—I mean, what is their defense in court? | ||
| I want to know, what is their defense going to be when they have admitted wrongdoing? | ||
| One of their top executives has already apologized now. | ||
| Which, by the way, nine months too late. | ||
| But to do it during an active lawsuit, I'm not sure I've ever seen that before. | ||
| Have you? | ||
| No, no. | ||
| I mean, this is this is crazy. | ||
| I actually just read a statement. | ||
| There's a Fox News article. | ||
| I'm pretty sure it was. | ||
| You probably know this better than me, but one of some some executive at Facebook put a statement saying, Joel Kaplan, I apologize. | ||
| This shouldn't have happened. | ||
| We did it. | ||
| We're guilty. | ||
| I mean, this basically just shows that they knew it was happening. | ||
| They knew that their platform was defaming you, that they as a company put out false information. | ||
| It's been happening for a long time. | ||
| So let's go back. | ||
| When this first happened, this is nine months ago, I think you said, did they acknowledge and apologize for it then? | ||
| They did not apologize. | ||
| No, they did pretend that they were going to try to find some fix for this. | ||
| But real quick, they acknowledged that it had defamed you. | ||
| Yeah, they acknowledged it happened. | ||
| Like, they weren't claiming we were making this up or anything like that. | ||
| No, they acknowledged it happened. | ||
| They were very slow to do anything, and their communication left a lot to be desired. | ||
| But eventually, what they ended up doing down the line is they blacklisted my name, which, again, has its own set. | ||
| Of negatives, right? | ||
| For me, because anybody searching, if there's like, hey, what's a bio on this guy? | ||
| They're getting back. | ||
| Sorry, I can't help you with that over and over and over again. | ||
| And it leads people to wonder, like, what did this dude do to get blacklisted from one of the largest AIs in the world? | ||
| So that has its own host of issues in terms of damaging somebody's reputation. | ||
| But secondarily to that, they did such a poor job of doing that blacklisting that it actually didn't stop the defamation. | ||
| Because what happened is, if there was a news story about me, say, if you ask. | ||
| Yeah, and it would end up doing the same thing and telling them all of these crazy lies. | ||
| So let's start from the beginning. | ||
| They acknowledged the defamation. | ||
| So they knew it was happening. | ||
| It persisted for nine months. | ||
| So that is outright—that's malice, we call that. | ||
| I shouldn't say we, but it's called in the law, which is knowledge of the falsehoods or a reckless disregard for the truth, which I think this fits both. | ||
| So even if it wasn't defamation per se, you've got one of the biggest companies on the planet, Facebook, worth, what, hundreds of billions of dollars. | ||
| 1.5 trillion. | ||
| 1.5 trillion. | ||
| What's the remedy going to be? | ||
| Look. | ||
| They've acknowledged it. | ||
| By the way, I should note this. | ||
| You know that in court, when there's a recommendation of punitive damages, generally that recommendation falls in the range of 1% to 3% of the total value of that company. | ||
| And secondarily, if you're in California, if Facebook tried to move it or Meta tried to move this to California, in California they recommend 9%, okay? | ||
| So I don't think they're going to drive venue change. | ||
| Could you imagine the headline, Robbie Starbuck, now one of the top 10 wealthiest men in the world after Facebook defames him? | ||
| Well, here's the thing. | ||
| I particularly, like, there is damages, and, like, I've had to have security, and you kind of know the deal. | ||
| Like, when you're thrown into something like this, especially if these lies are being told about you, like, things can get much worse and kind of hairy and scary, right? | ||
| Like, especially for kids, you know? | ||
| Like, kids should never have to deal with this stuff at all. | ||
| And my kids have had to deal with it, you know? | ||
| And so there's very real issues this creates and damage it causes to business deals and advertising. | ||
| By the way, Meta was telling people on AI not to advertise on my show. | ||
| they were telling people not to ever hire me for a job because I essentially was an extremist. | ||
| You know, that's how it was framing me, as some extremist. | ||
| And in reality, I share the political views of half the country, right? | ||
| Like, at least. | ||
| And so it's gone beyond anything that anybody could say, like, oh, well, let's make some excuse for this. | ||
| There's no excuse to be made for this. | ||
| Nobody can do this. | ||
| You cannot act like this. | ||
| I can't do this about somebody. | ||
| If I went out there or you went out there and we made these claims about somebody, | ||
| We would be sued into oblivion for a good reason, because you cannot behave like this. | ||
| And, you know, so at the end of the day, for me, this is about accountability. | ||
| And so, yes, part of accountability is making sure that there are damages paid, because that is part of what incentivizes companies to not engage in this behavior. | ||
| But secondarily, they obviously have damages they have to pay for the damage that they did. | ||
| But beyond that, what's really important to me is that we have a set of rules in place to prevent this from happening again and a very quick resolution process for anybody this happens to, where they can very quickly go to the company and say, hey, your AI is doing this right now. | ||
| You need to stop this. | ||
| And they very quickly, within 24 to 48 hours, get a hold of it and | ||
| I'm pretty sure they've lied about other people too, though. | ||
| I remember seeing other posts from other conservative personalities that were defamed in this capacity. | ||
| If you go back to 2016, there's an article from Gizmodo. | ||
| That they interviewed people who worked at Facebook who were responsible for the curation of news, and they said they intentionally would remove conservative news sites from the trending tab to control what people were seeing in trending. | ||
| So we can clearly see that if you go back, I mean, this is not even ten years, nine years ago, that there is a bias within the company against certain worldviews. | ||
| Then you have the defamation against you. | ||
| What's crazy to me is, as you mentioned, they've admitted it. | ||
| They've now apologized for it publicly, but it persisted after they already acknowledged it. | ||
| I don't understand how this court case proceeds because in almost every defamation case that we've tracked or stories like this over the past couple decades, it's usually adversarial. | ||
| So what happens is I have to imagine Facebook is going to offer you a settlement instantly because they know that if – this is going to be weird. | ||
| Let me say this. | ||
| Let me clarify. | ||
| You've sued for access of 5 million plus punitive damages. | ||
| Is that how it works? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So, I mean, there's a myriad of different damage categories, and they all get calculated and decided by a jury. | ||
| But you have to start with an initial, hey, my damages are in excess of, and so we're in excess of 5 million. | ||
| However, in terms of, you know, any settlement, I am legally not allowed to comment on if there are any discussions or anything like that. | ||
| Right, right. | ||
| So I'll just say, in my experience with lawsuits, usually the suing party will say that, you know, we want X amount of dollars and we want whatever a jury deems appropriate, which means this is not defined by you, but by the jury. | ||
| This is where it gets interesting because this means if Facebook tries to settle, they have to offer you a lot of money. | ||
| They've already admitted it. | ||
| But then what happens if they go to court? | ||
| They're walking in the door saying, yes, Your Honor, we did do this. | ||
| We're sorry it happened. | ||
| And they say, okay, jury. | ||
| What do they owe this man for having defamed him in this way? | ||
| The one thing that really is striking to me is it seems like there's only one remedy for this. | ||
| And it's an injunction on meta-AI from functioning, period. | ||
| Let me explain. | ||
| Obviously, they can pay you for the damages they owe you. | ||
| And I want people listening to understand, why is it $5 million? | ||
| Well, I can't speak to Robbie, but I can speak for me, my friends, and my family. | ||
| Understand how much security costs on a 24-hour shift. | ||
| You're talking about three or four people full-time every single day of the year, and that can cost millions of dollars just to secure your family when you've got people accusing you of being a heinous criminal or a traitor or something like this, and they're threatening your children. | ||
| So it's not some made-up number saying, we just want all this money. | ||
| But let's say they do agree to pay you. | ||
| There's no guarantee they're going to stop defaming you or anybody else, in which case... | ||
| It seems like the court has to tell Facebook, we're going to put an injunction on the operation of your program. | ||
| I'll put it this way. | ||
| If I defamed you, the court would explicitly state, first and foremost, Tim, do not speak about Robbie Starbuck at all. | ||
| My lawyers would say the same thing. | ||
| I imagine the court's going to say to Facebook, because I don't know how they don't, you need to never... | ||
| During this process, do not speak of this man, and they're going to say, we actually don't know how to make the AI not do that. | ||
| In which case, okay, then shut the AI down, because if you can't guarantee your product won't defame the plaintiff, then you can't have it run. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, that's a real risk. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| Again, I'm actually scratching my head the way that you are in terms of what is going to happen in court. | ||
| When they have come out, apologized, you know, nine months too late, but they did, which essentially in the statement, like if you read it out loud, to me it reads as admission of wrongdoing. | ||
| I'm not sure how anybody else could read it otherwise. | ||
| I don't know how you defend yourself in court, which is kind of mind-boggling to me because, you know, I would think big tech companies want to avoid... | ||
| Precedent being set. | ||
| That's my assumption just as a layperson. | ||
| I would think they want to make and write their own rules because they've kind of operated like the Wild Wild West in terms of how they've run this. | ||
| So it's kind of mind-boggling to me. | ||
| I don't know how that process is going to go. | ||
| I mean, my predictions are obviously well in favor of us having the very strong suit here. | ||
| But yeah, I mean, I'm lost. | ||
| I'm totally lost as to how they can defend themselves in court. | ||
| Bro, this is revolutionary. | ||
| One of the accusations against these AI models is that they've been stealing content, that they are using artists' images. | ||
| And my understanding is that most of these AIs have scanned every episode of Timcast IRL so they can add all that data to their networks and train on it. | ||
| And they never paid me for access to that information to build a machine off of. | ||
| That's a big accusation. | ||
| Now, we're entering this interesting Section 230 territory where, with Wikipedia, they've largely been shielded when someone lies about you. | ||
| And I'm sure your Wikipedia's got lies in it. | ||
| Some far-left liberal guy is probably going to write a fake article. | ||
| Then someone's going to add it to Wikipedia, and they're going to claim it's true. | ||
| You try to sue Wikipedia, they say, Section 230, we didn't publish that. | ||
| The user did sue them. | ||
| The user is then going to say, hey, don't look at me. | ||
| I got it from an article. | ||
| The article person is going to say, hey, don't look at me. | ||
| I got it from that article. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| We're all shielded. | ||
| And he's a public figure. | ||
| Good luck. | ||
| But what happens when that wall is broken? | ||
| Because now this data, these articles and this information being taken and loaded into these large language models converts it into the speech of the company. | ||
| So it's not just about defaming you. | ||
| With you, I think it's pretty obvious. | ||
| Like, you weren't in D.C. on January 6th, and they accused you of a crime. | ||
| That's nuts. | ||
| But take a look at, like, James O 'Keefe. | ||
| I use him as a great example because, one, I think he does fantastic work, but his Wikipedia is loaded with insane garbage. | ||
| What happens if I go to chat GPT right now and say, tell me about James O 'Keefe? | ||
| It's likely going to aggregate all of the lies and fake news. | ||
| And then give me a bunch of fake information that accuses James of wrongdoing. | ||
| I think with you, we're only scratching the surface. | ||
| Because now, Grok, GPT, Meta-AI, you name it, they're going to take the lies from the corporate press, which have these stupid precedent protections, and convert it into the speech of a company which is not protected. | ||
| And I think this is just the beginning. | ||
| I think these lawsuits are going to rock. | ||
| Yeah, you know, I think, you know, I've analyzed this pretty closely. | ||
| I think one barometer in court they look at is, they say, did you ever notify them? | ||
| You know, and so that's going to be key, you know, for figures, if it is in fact true that these other AIs are lying about people. | ||
| We did check, you know, very recently, all of the AIs out there, all the major ones, to see if any of them are repeating these lies. | ||
| None of them are, except for Meta. | ||
| And so, you know, that's significant in itself. | ||
| And most of them knew about Meta lying about me and actually brought it up themselves and said, no, that claim stems from Meta. | ||
| And Meta has told these lies, you know, and kind of... | ||
| Interesting. | ||
| But once you have notified a company, if they continue the defamation, you know, that's where if you're especially, you know, if you're a public figure, not a public figure, it doesn't really matter. | ||
| If they continue that behavior and that pattern of lying, they're in a very bad position then, you know. | ||
| But if they do, in fact, fix it, you know, I think courts look at that a little bit differently. | ||
| But still, I mean, it depends on the nature of the lies, how they did it, you know, so on and so forth. | ||
| In our case, we notified them, you know, and they had a chance to fix this, and we were very good faith. | ||
| Again, you talk about the damages now that are in our suit. | ||
| Keep in mind that nine months ago, when we contacted them, when this first occurred, we did not ask for a financial settlement at all. | ||
| We were asking to fix the problem, and we wanted a public apology and retraction, and then this went on for nine months, right? | ||
| And the damage was done over that period of time immensely, you know, and caused a lot of stress for my kids, for my wife and myself. | ||
| And so it's like, yeah, at this point, there is more damage done than on day one when I was trying to be amicable and I was trying to fix a problem so this didn't happen to anybody else. | ||
| And so that matters, I think, to people like your normal person sees very clearly like I wasn't going and trying to shake down meta. | ||
| Like they lied about me in a really disgusting fashion for nearly a year. | ||
| Especially if the claims originated from the Meta AI. | ||
| Like, where would that come from unless it was somebody who intentionally did it? | ||
| Well, you know, we'll find out in Discovery. | ||
| The thing is, too, in Discovery, you know, we can look at emails and see, you know, I think we'll be looking for any mention of my name. | ||
| And again, this could go back quite far between executives there. | ||
| Because who knows when this pattern of conduct first occurred, right? | ||
| So you could go back into, you know, and again, by the way, got to keep in mind with Meta, if we go back any further, we're going into the period of time where they were taking certain actions to censor my accounts during COVID. | ||
| And so there's a pattern of conduct. | ||
| Who knows where that leads to, right? | ||
| So we have to see when we get in there and discover exactly how deep this goes. | ||
| Because again, courts and a jury are gonna look at whatever we find in discovery, and if there is any conversations that are adverse about me where it's essentially like, oh, well, this guy sucks, he deserves it, | ||
| You know, like, that is not going to look good on top of already the admission of wrongdoing. | ||
| So, you know, you have to go through that process. | ||
| You've got to see discovery. | ||
| You've got to see what's in there. | ||
| And so I'm not assuming anything on the front end, but I will just say, you know, my first feeling is that I think that we would find quite a bit in discovery that would give us a lot more information about exactly what occurred. | ||
| Man, this is going to be revolutionary, man. | ||
| This is going to shape legislation and policy and precedent. | ||
| So I do appreciate all the work you do, of course, and I appreciate you coming on. | ||
| Where can people find you? | ||
| Yeah, at Robbie Starbuck on all platforms, on YouTube. | ||
| I'm Robbie Starbuck there as well. | ||
| And we'll be keeping people updated on the case. | ||
| And to your point about legislation and shaping policy and everything, you know, U.S. senators have reached out to me since this has occurred with major concern about this happening. | ||
| because I made the point in my video, it's me now, but what if meta and other AIs are allowed to do this type of defamation in the future and they do it during elections when you're asking, what's the difference between this candidate and this candidate? | ||
| And it can make up anything and says your favorite candidate actually is a rapist or a murderer or whatever it might be, and says so with such confidence that some people actually believe it and then it shifts 2% of the vote. | ||
| Well, what does that do? | ||
| That decides elections. | ||
| And so I think there should be major concern on the behalf of all politicians from both parties because this could decide elections. | ||
| Well, Robbie, thanks for laying it out for us and joining us, and I wish you the best of luck. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Appreciate it, bud. | ||
| Have a good one. | ||
| Absolutely insane. | ||
| And one thing I want to add for all of you that are watching is that right now you could be defamed by ChatGPT and not even know. | ||
| I actually want to say that I think Robbie is a bit lucky in that he was defamed, but... | ||
| The attention was brought to him. | ||
| They said, hey, look at this thing about Robbie. | ||
| He was able to then realize it was defaming him. | ||
| For me, for all I know, they're actually defaming me right now. | ||
| And I'd have no idea. | ||
| This is going to change the game. | ||
| But for everybody watching right now, we're going to send you over to hang out with our friend Russell Brand, who is gearing up to go live. | ||
| You can follow me on X and Instagram at Timcast. | ||
| Tomorrow, of course, we've got the Culture War show live at noon. | ||
| It's going to be a lot of fun. | ||
| So I do appreciate all of you guys hanging out. | ||
| We'll just grab one quick chat before we head out. | ||
| We got DeVito said, Tim, want to shout out KickIt. | ||
| It's the blue bucket icon in app stores, an app that encourages users to connect based on common goals and do rather than view. | ||
| It's live now. | ||
| Still improving, though. | ||
| Epic. | ||
| Very much appreciate it. | ||
| I wish I saved more time for chats, but, you know. | ||
| There's still a hundred things I want to ask Robbie and talk to him about because AI, of course, you guys know that I've ranted about AI and the threats to AI, so this is really interesting. | ||
| I think he has grounds for an injunction against meta-AI as a whole because how do you guarantee it stops defaming you after they've admitted it? | ||
| You've got to put it on pause until you can lock it down, but then the problem is it's going to defame anybody else. | ||
| Here's one last thing I'll add because I'm going a little long. | ||
| I'm willing to bet. | ||
| That if you go to any AI and ask it, like, who is Tim Pool? | ||
| It'll probably give you some, you know, run-of-the-mill general information you can find somewhere. | ||
| I'm willing to bet if you ask an AI, is, you know, personality a criminal? | ||
| It will say no. | ||
| But if you respond with, incorrect, so-and-so was accused of this crime. | ||
| Many of them will turn around and go, you're right. | ||
| Actually, this person committed a crime. | ||
| At that point, is it defamation that it is giving you fake facts? | ||
| I think the answer is still yes. | ||
| The question then, of course, is damages. | ||
| But considering AI will likely do this in this phase, it's going to be weird how the courts navigate this. | ||
| But I'm going to wrap it up there, my friends. | ||
| Once again, smash the like button, share the show. | ||
| I'm on X and Instagram at TimCast. | ||
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| Thanks for hanging out. |