American Culture vs Economics, H1-B & Immigration DEBATE w/ Elijah Schaffer & Brad Polumbo
BUY CAST BREW COFFEE TO SUPPORT THE SHOW - https://castbrew.com/ Become A Member And Protect Our Work at http://www.timcast.com Host: Tim Pool @Timcast (everywhere) Guest: Brad Polumbo @Brad_Polumbo (X) Elijah Schaffer @ElijahSchaffer (X) | https://www.youtube.com/@AlmostSeriousTV Phil @PhilThatRemains (X) Producers: Lisa Elizabeth @LisaElizabeth (X) Kellen Leeson @KellenPDL (X) My Second Channel - https://www.youtube.com/timcastnews Podcast Channel - https://www.youtube.com/TimcastIRL
People started pulling up H-1B applications, finding that there were casino dealers and servers and Panda Express employees that they were trying to get H-1B visas for.
Now, these jobs are considered entry-level, meaning if Americans need jobs, then we should be...
Training Americans to do these jobs.
So this debate got pretty intense.
Vivek Ramaswamy and Elon Musk got a lot of flack for this.
Recently, Donald Trump stated at a press conference that he was in favor of H-1B because we need wine experts and waiters.
That's right, waiters, like people to serve you food.
Now a lot of people did not, the debate did not reignite, which is surprising to me, and very few people covered that Donald Trump said this, considering how angry the Trump base was over this.
But there was a question that arose, or I should say a point was made by Sam Hyde.
He released a video on the unquantifiable.
So what we're going to do is we're going to discuss free trade, H-1B, outsourcing, etc.
And I believe it'll be a lot of discussion, quite a bit of debate, and we're going to get to the root issues around culture, economics, and immigration.
We got a handful of really great people joining us today to talk about all this.
I'm an independent journalist, YouTuber, and podcaster, host the Brad vs.
Everyone podcast on YouTube and different platforms, mostly covering kind of internet, media, and politics from a center-right or maybe classically liberal perspective.
But we were talking about this the other day because you had called yourself libertarian for quite a long time.
unidentified
Yeah, I mean, I have problems with a lot of libertarian takes.
Not because of the ideology behind them or because of the impulses behind them, but because of the way that they pan out in the real world.
And because, look, the enemy gets a vote, right?
So if you're like, well, we shouldn't have a government that has this power.
And you're like, okay, cool.
When we get a hold of the government, we're going to make this power go away.
Well, as soon as the other guys get a hold of the government, they're going to bring it right back.
So saying that, oh...
We can just wish that the government didn't have this power or whatever.
We don't live in a country or a world where that's an actual reasonable thing.
So you have to exercise power when you have it.
And unfortunately, I mean, I reside to the fact that the founders were right.
If men were angels, we wouldn't need government.
But because men are not angels, we do need government.
And that means when you get power, you have to do things to make sure that your society and your opinions and your perspectives are put into action by government.
It extracted American jobs, which – I'm not surprised to see that considering the entirety of the skateboard industry was extracted to Asia and some of the most prominent companies and
biggest cultural hubs.
Have now relocated to China and Japan instead of the United States.
And it's because of free trade.
And they started selling back our products to us that were originally made by Americans for dirt costs because it's made by slave labor.
I'll frame this in a way for anybody who doesn't know or care about skateboarding.
Let's remove that and just say American sport, which was largely popular in Southern California and still was for a long time this mecca, as it were, of skateboarding.
If you lived, you know, like when I grew up, skateboarding has its ups and downs.
It was big in like the 70s, then it kind of waned, then it came back a little bit in the 80s, then it waned, then it came back a little bit in the 90s.
Completely died in the mid-90s and was resurrected in the late, in 1999 to 2000 with the Tony Hawk Pro Skater game that came out, birthing this new generation and this era where you had the CKY videos became a massive success on VHS. And then you got Viva La Bam and all this Bam Margera and Jackass skateboard stuff.
You had skateboarders who were millionaires.
It was a multi-billion dollar industry.
And they made skateboards here.
And there were skateboard shops.
And then companies decided to have North American rock maple shipped to China, which is expensive, turned into skateboards for pennies on the dollar by slave labor in China, and then shipped back to the United States, which is ridiculously expensive.
but...
Because their labor costs had dropped so much and there was no tariff or penalty to doing this trade, companies stopped producing skateboards.
And even to this day, as we launched Boonies HQ and we sell skateboards, we were pitched by all of these manufacturers to buy from China instead of America.
And I said, why would I invest in a foreign country's industry when I'm trying to bring skateboarding back to the United States?
Skateboarding is dead.
As an industry has been completely whipped to shreds.
Bro, some of these pros that used to be some of the biggest names in my generation, they're Uber drivers.
One guy famously now posting videos working at Lowe's.
These are professional athletes who previously had contracts with major companies.
Shoe deals have been destroyed.
And now what we're getting is when you watch these skate contests, they're in Asia, they're in China.
When skateboarding, let's just say American sport, again, you don't worry about skateboarding, when they started making skateboards, this is like, I don't know, early 60s or whatever, there's this famous Life magazine of a woman, I forget her name, doing a handstand on these little oval-shaped boards.
They had clay wheels.
Shops started to appear, started to make these boards, and it's like one person, two people, and then they would do community events.
They'd say, we need to market this product to our neighbors and to our community.
So they would...
Put up flyers and they tell everybody, hey, come down to the park.
We're going to do this skateboard thing.
And parents would be like, oh, wow, let's go check out whatever this thing is.
Let's go.
It's a Sunday in the park.
And there's this very famous Life magazine where in Central Park they have all of these people and there's a man wearing a suit with sunglasses and nobody knows who he is.
The mysterious man.
Never found him.
And he's got his hands in his pockets and he's cruising down a little hill on a skateboard.
When these kids were brought to these community events because there was marketing and promotion being done.
These kids picked up skateboarding and developed this culture.
They showed their friends.
They told their friends.
When the shop started selling more skateboards to these promotional events, they hired more locals to start manufacturing skateboards.
These men would then make boards, bring them home to their kids, and thus the culture is expanding.
It has its ups and downs, but largely skateboarding continued to evolve and develop.
And eventually we got to the point where companies figured out we don't need to make skateboards in America anymore.
We can use these shipping lanes to China.
Now here's the reality.
It's really expensive to do this, but Chinese slave labor is so cheap, we can get an additional $10 per board.
So they come to us and they say, Tim, if you're going to sell skateboards, if you want to make your own custom decks, go with China.
They're of comparable quality, and that's true.
They are actually really good.
And you'll make $10 more per board.
And I said, and then there will be no local events.
There will be no local manufacturing shop.
There will be no father showing the child what he's doing.
There will be no skateboard community events around the area where they make these skateboards.
There will be no factory.
It'll be in China.
And the Chinese workers will show their kids.
And the culture will develop there.
And where we are today is that in Japan and China, skateboarding is skyrocketing.
Some of the best pros, they're doing reality TV shows, and the culture in the United States is dead.
And they've evacuated the country.
That's free trade.
That is what outsourcing and free trade has done to skateboarding.
It is completely dead.
And there are pro skateboarders now doing Uber delivery.
So that's why I say I despise free trade.
And it's not the only industry this has happened to.
It happens to a bunch of cultures.
unidentified
Don't you think it's slightly myopic to condemn all of free trade based on one micro niche industry and culture?
I think you are singling out the fact that it directly affected my culture to say it's only one small thing.
When in fact, I've gotten waves of comments and emails from people saying the same thing happened to my industry.
It happened to snowboarding.
It happened to surfboard.
And that's easy for me to say because they're related sports, but there's a whole bunch of other industries that have been completely destroyed by outsourcing.
unidentified
The idea that Tim's essentially presenting that it's cheaper for a company to go overseas, build a factory, and have their products made there because there are no...
And this is something that should be, you know...
Should fall right in your wheelhouse.
There are no labor laws.
There's no minimum wage.
There's no unions.
It's cheaper for a company to build a plant in China where they can hire essentially slave labor or people for pennies as opposed to dollars and ship all the raw materials they need to China, have it built in China and then ship it back.
That's something that's not...
That's uncontroversial to talk about.
That is absolutely something that's happened over the past 30, 40 years.
It's not some secret.
Everybody's kind of aware of it.
And a big part of the reason why the United States is in the position that it's in with jobs and with not having good jobs for people is because the government here and unions and labor laws here and unions have made the...
You know, made producing things here super, super hard.
Tim was talking just last night about the difficulties that he's facing with the state of West Virginia.
But I want to hear – what I think is interesting about Brad, Brad, I want to hear your opinion because all I'm getting from this – this is the first time I'm seeing this, right?
So if I'm a normie and I'm like looking at this, which I am here, you see Tim Pool said, I effing despise free trade.
So obviously there's like a statement about a certain – You know, subject, right?
So free trade, he doesn't like it.
And he has a reason why.
It extracted American jobs.
It gutted our culture.
So the idea is that, you know, the economy, it's giving our jobs overseas.
And essentially with that, right, you're seeing the degradation like we saw with the iron and steel mills and whatnot going on in the Midwest, where eventually if you lose these jobs, you lose blue-collar workers.
If you lose that, you lose cities, you lose towns, you lose a huge part of what makes America America, right?
where we're just a country of people who get four-year degrees and work entry-level jobs, typing on Excel spreadsheets.
You lose a lot of what's going on.
Plus, including, like he said, with the skateboards, you actually even lose quality.
This actually changes entire industries, et cetera.
And then you said, tell me you don't understand economics without telling me.
I don't understand economics.
Tell me why he's wrong.
unidentified
Well, because free trade has been one of the most profound forces for human development and poverty relief since 1980. If you look at the expansion of free trade globally, the drops in levels of absolute poverty have been astounding.
People, economists who study this view it as almost miraculous, the growth and decrease in human poverty and suffering we've seen, in part because of the expansion of global trade.
The living standards enabled in the United States by free trade, where everyone is walking around with supercomputers in their pockets, where people have access to a life that even 50 or 100 years ago, the richest people's lives compared to the poorest people's today would – you'd rather be a poor person the richest people's lives compared to the poorest people's today would – you'd rather be a poor person today than the richest person The living standards that are enabled by this are phenomenal.
The improvements in human progress are miraculous, and you can't actually put that genie back in the bottle.
Attempts to undo it, really, you can't undo progress.
A lot of what you're mad about here is progress, not trade.
So the points that you're making are – I'm 100% on board with all the stuff you're saying, and that's where my libertarian foundation comes through.
It is true that trade and markets lift people out of poverty.
The reason why poverty has almost been totally wiped out globally, except for very few areas, is because of free trade and because of trade and markets and stuff.
The number of unnecessary deaths in a society goes down correspondingly with the wealth of that society.
So, like, there's a meme that we talk about, like, number go up, so it's good, right?
And chart go up or whatever.
And that's a meme, and it's kind of...
But there's also truth to it.
Exactly.
There is a kernel of truth, and maybe even more than a kernel of truth, that...
Rich societies do not have as much unnecessary death as poor societies.
And they don't have as much unnecessary violence.
They're always more peaceful.
They're more collaborative societies.
You end up with a better result when you're dealing with rich societies.
And I'm sure that there are...
Any number of ways that you can dissect these things.
But the idea that having a rich society is not preferable to having a poor society, that's just not right.
The restrictions on trade make us poor and they pull off progress.
So what it sounds to me like is the wealth of the United States in terms of our actual resources and our actual cultural development must be sacrificed to increase poverty in China.
I'm sorry, to decrease poverty in China.
unidentified
No, the living standards of the U.S. should not be compromised so that certain things can be made here more expensively and less efficiently rather than be made overseas.
By the way, I'm glad we're talking about this because an ancient historian and also a philosopher named Jaden Smith once said, while all my friends are around just talking about whatever, we're here to talk about the economic and political state of the world, right?
That is a very, very serious thing.
Thank you, Jaden Smith, for always reminding us.
Just to keep focused on what's very serious.
He's my hero and he's one of the best influencers in the world.
But the Smith family aside, look, I call this the Walmart dilemma.
And I'm going to explain to you why I actually agree with the fact that free trade, as he would call it, or unrestricted free trade, is diabolical.
So I went to go buy a PlayStation 5. Yes, I'm a dad of two kids.
Yes, I don't have a lot of time to play it.
But I wanted to try it because I needed to play GTA 5 and shoot some cops in the video game.
That's apparently what Elon Musk thinks I bought it for.
I wanted to have a little bit of fun.
I wanted to feel like what it was like.
African-American free culture.
It was cool.
I like it.
It's fun.
And so I went to go buy one.
And I looked and there was only a few places I could get one in a very densely populated region like Boca Raton.
This is right between Miami and West Palm.
There's three places that I could physically get one.
It was Walmart.
Target and GameStop.
These are large corporations, right?
There's no mom-and-pop shops.
There's no video game stores selling PlayStations.
This is a commodity that people want, and it's only there.
Now, if I want to go online, the same thing.
It was Walmart, it was Amazon, or it was these foreign sites that you could get, which were also large corporations.
unidentified
And you could have it delivered the next day to your place.
The price on the device is cheaper than the price you're charging me.
Something's wrong.
And he goes to the website.
Go check the website.
And it's the correct price on the website.
It's $374.
And he's like, I don't know what to do.
And I was like, call a manager.
Do something.
The manager goes, we can't do this.
Also a Haitian woman or whatever.
We can't do this.
And I'm looking at him and I'm going...
I go, look, man.
Pull something up.
I want to see your guys' policy.
We have economic policies here where you got to offer me this at the payment price.
He accidentally brings up his Coinbase wallet, types in his password.
He was like $30 in there.
It was crazy.
So his password was in his crypto wallet.
Brings it up, and I looked at him and I go, Why the hell am I even trying to argue with this Haitian guy about, you know, a price on a sticker?
This guy is trying to bring up a website and brought up his Coinbase wallet, gave me his password.
This guy's got an IQ, not because he's Haitian, but he's got an IQ probably like 70. And I was thinking, I looked around for a second, and I go, you know what?
It is like 10.30 at night.
The fact that it is crazy that I can get a PlayStation 5 at 10.30 at night on demand in the middle of life is quite a great benefit.
But on the other hand, I look, things are falling apart in the store, and I go, you know what?
This place sucks.
And who is this guy?
I'm not even going to complain because what American with our standards would want to be working in this crappy place with the CFL lights working for $12 an hour selling PlayStations?
Nobody.
So what do they do?
They bring in, clearly, a Haitian immigrant who barely speaks English to serve that goal.
Where the economy part, you know, it's a great economically, it's a great access for me.
But in terms of degrading our standards as a culture, I thought about it for a second.
I go, you know what's kind of crazy?
There should be some sort of limitations on this where you can have the Walton family move in and bring in a Walmart, which then means I didn't go to Walmart out of choice.
I went there because they've got out all the competition.
The only other competition for Walmart is other big box, large format, huge corporations.
The only people that compete are there.
So we've already taken out small business.
We can get good quality service, good customer service.
And then you come in there and you go, well, everything's cheap, so they must be very profitable.
Everyone must be paid well.
It must be a great experience.
No.
Because there's no restrictions on the trade.
The Walton family's extracting – I'm going to sound like a leftist to everyone here, but look, I will say.
Yeah, it's fine.
But I believe in nationalism and protectionism on our own economy in this way.
Then you go in and you go, well, what's going on here?
So they're taking billions, tens of billions of dollars out a year, maybe $100 billion.
To import cheaper products that they're selling at a marked-up price at a point to where there's nowhere else to buy it in a living condition and standards to their employees that are only allowing a Haitian immigrant to be someone who could possibly think about taking that job while he lives with six people in his apartment.
That, to me, is disgusting, and that's the problem with all of the free trade, is it's been taken advantage of.
Massive billionaires have—I don't know if we say the R word, but if R.I.P., you know— Nothing you just said is disgusting.
They had stoves, they had fridges, they had dishwashers back then.
unidentified
So why don't you go to a museum where they have this set up, what the typical home was like in 1955, walk around and ask yourself if you'd rather live in that home than the home that you presumably live in or most Americans live in today.
You're asking, ask a 24-year-old, ask a 24-year-old, would you like to have your own home right now with a 1950s stove, a 1950s refrigerator, and a 1950s dishwasher, or would you like to live in a bachelor apartment?
unidentified
Hold on, hold on.
This whole framing is incorrect.
Housing is not unaffordable today because of free trade.
It's because governments across this country have made it impossible to build housing.
That's why we have a housing shortage and housing is so expensive.
And in fact, the kind of protectionist policies you're talking about would make housing more expensive.
You put tariffs on the imports that go into building homes, you're only making it even more expensive.
The saying goes, a society grows great when the original phrase was, When men plant trees whose shade they know they will never sit beneath.
And so what you're describing is what I call the heroin addiction economy, where it's let's continually gut and destroy the root of labor in this country for short-term gains in other areas.
I don't care if a top-level company is going to decrease a little bit if it's going to restore the base and foundation of jobs in this country.
unidentified
So you don't care about policies that destroy hundreds of thousands of jobs on negative.
And that will lead to the destruction of this country.
We ask ourselves why it is that young people can't find jobs.
They're suffering.
And it's because there used to be entry-level jobs that could help you afford to live and work in a certain place.
But there's even beyond the quantifiable.
Because you say, like, this is progress.
It's progress.
Let's talk about the progress.
Let's talk about the outsourcing of car manufacturing to Mexico, to Indonesia, and to China.
And Donald Trump put a stop to that in his first term.
And he said famously, as Michael Moore pointed out, he went to the executives and said, I will put a 30 percent tariff on all of your cars and no one will ever buy them again.
And when the policies were reversed, or I should say the administration's enforcement of these policies especially, we saw those investments lost.
So Michigan is collapsing.
There's so much more to this big picture.
First of all, I really think we're getting too much trapped into the graph go up argument, which is the stupidest argument imaginable.
It is good that on average people can buy more sticks of bubble gum and there's no more baseball at the park.
There's no more apple pie and there's no more Christmas.
That's insane.
unidentified
That's such a caricature of economic progress.
Sorry, for one second.
To the people who have struggled to afford everything over the last couple of years and for people on your side of the political spectrum have railed against that and how unaffordable life has been, you are now coming on and championing policies that would make...
Issue at play is these short-term economic gains are destroying community and culture in this country, and it's resulting in, sure, maybe you can buy a PlayStation at 10 p.m.
in a Walmart, but 10 years from now, people are going to be substantially worse off in many ways.
We're going to have lazy, gluttonous, dejected Gen Alpha, and we're already seeing this with the generations as you further progress, as it were.
Because we're realizing that just looking at our countries, like, people are, you know, a certain job.
That job creates profit or benefit, and that benefit creates GDP. And then we get a new iPhone that has an action button on the side.
That's worth gutting the entire Midwest culture of the United States or giving my children no hope besides maybe OnlyFans if they're a girl or becoming a...
Podcaster, Tim, God forbid our kids ever do that.
unidentified
This is just a non-reality.
The idea that young women growing up today have no options other than OnlyFans?
I have a background in genetic engineering, molecular biology, and I had my actual researcher.
This is why culture matters.
I don't care.
This is how I got into politics, by the way, because people say, oh, this is BS or whatever.
It's like, no, I was never in politics.
I don't have a degree in this.
This is not what was happening.
It was the fact that two things.
One, when I was doing research and we were studying limb regeneration, epigenetics, and we were trying to regrow limbs onto axolotls.
Essentially, what was happening there is my research lead, my PI, told me that my race was declining.
He regretted hiring white men, and he wasn't going to go in that direction.
And then he ended up blackballing me because we had a political disagreement.
This was during the beginning of the Trump era, which is very common for people.
I ended up getting blackballed where one employer told me, look, Your resume's fine, but the guy told me that, like, he didn't have an example.
He's like, your character, you know, you don't want this guy on your team.
And I told him it was political, and they're like, yeah, but in the end, I do believe you, the girl told me, because she was a Trump supporter.
This was in L.A. at the time.
So I go to become a high school teacher.
I get a credential.
I fast-tracked through it through an inner-city program.
And then I'm the only white guy hired, because, you know, too, I have credentials.
No offense to teachers, but to be like a bachelor's, you know, you know.
High school teacher at the time.
They had us split into groups, right?
Where, you know, you'd be in the oppressor or the oppressed.
This is very early woke stuff.
And that's how I ended up going on to...
You know, the radio ended up talking about how I was upset about this and I'm going into politics.
I was so mad about this anti-white woke stuff.
So meaning when you say like there are options, it's like I'm an example of the fact that, look, I have the training.
I have the pedigree.
I graduated summa cum laude.
I literally was in every club.
I was accepted into grad schools, full-ride scholarships.
I've got originally a full-ride scholarship to UC Irvine.
I'm not an idiot and nothing restricting me.
I have no criminal history.
I have nothing on my record or anything like that.
that, but I couldn't get a job in my field because the culture was skewed.
And I know that woke politics is not what we're talking about here, but I'm not saying that.
I'm saying, but I woke up to going, yeah, your credential and your pedigree can easily become completely depleted or not even worth anything if what the cultural mindset and values that are at play are not aligned with what we want.
And the reason why I say that is right now I was trying to reference Australia.
Australia is a good example that we can look at if If what you're saying is true, because Australia has less people than live in California, less people than live in Florida, in an entire country, the landmass of the United States.
It's a pretty good example.
With some of the most advanced cities in the world, it is a global player, and it's also part of the five eyes, right, of military intelligence.
This is not a minor country.
This is a serious player with multi-trillion dollar GDP. Australia right now has taken the mindset that they are a global...
That they are an economic zone, that anybody can come.
They've made a deal with Modi to bring in a million more, up to a million more Indians per year.
They have a deal with China to bring in China if they have a certain amount of wealth in their bank.
And what you're having right now is the most explosive, denigrating destruction of a country we'll see in terms of, it is, besides Hong Kong, the second highest housing market in the country because you're bringing in people that are artificially inflating the home prices.
But you also have the socialist government, like you said, which I'll agree, that's restricting home building to prevent environmental destruction.
So you have this skewed difference.
So right now, I think it's like, Eight to ten times the average yearly salary is like an entry-level home.
I might be wrong, maybe six, but eight to ten times last time I read of entry-level salary with a four-year degree just to be able to get an entry-level two-bedroom, one-bathroom house there.
They live in smaller homes.
On top of that, the competition there, like I have three friends there myself who have had to leave cities, move around, and one moved to Poland because they cannot compete with the Indians.
It's not H-1B there.
They cannot compete.
They're trained at the University of Sydney, the best university there, and they cannot compete because they keep getting lower wages and agreeing to lower wages.
I've watched that culture get destroyed, and I'm seeing it at such a homogenous level across every major city, Melbourne, Sydney, Canberra, you got all the way up in Gold Coast.
It's all being destroyed.
And I go, I look at that as an American, and I go, I see that here regionally in some places.
I just don't want that for the whole country.
And I know I'm not retarded.
Sorry, I should say that on YouTube.
I know I'm not in the R word, because...
It looks like the whole country, or at least half the country, is seeing what I'm seeing.
unidentified
So it just feels like I'm talking to a woke person.
That's fine.
Because all I'm hearing is my experience, my truth, my anecdotal evidence.
I'm talking about the overarching trends of the entire nation.
This is a—like, that's what you have Paul Rivera, whatever.
You have Justin Trudeau.
This is what's happening in Canada, too.
This is not my experience.
This is a—these are—countries are split on this issue.
I was living there.
I'm saying, I follow the politics.
I'm involved.
I have family in the political system, in the intelligence community.
This is the actual issue going on.
This is not—I didn't read this in a book.
unidentified
Immigration does not lower wages except for one subgroup of Americans.
Immigration leads to an increase in jobs for domestic-born Americans, an increase in wages for domestic-born Americans, because it's not just an increase— Just give me a moment.
It's not just an increase in the supply of labor.
Because if all that changed, and this is kind of the talking point, was all, well, now we have more people competing for the jobs, of course then, wages would go down.
But also the demand for all the other goods and services around them in the community also goes up.
The total productive capacity of the nation and the economy goes up when you have more people who can work and produce.
And what that means is higher wages and more jobs.
That's the point of your tweet when I said you don't know-ish about this stuff.
It's not singular culture.
It's the fact that you cannot import massive amounts of people to graph go up and then wonder why it is that your mall no longer has Christmas morning with Santa Claus and they're doing a holiday festival season instead.
I live in a reality where I've watched numerous different subcultures be completely gutted and decimated and industries ripped to shreds by this graph-go-up mentality of neolibs and libertarians.
unidentified
It's creative destruction and economic progressing does destroy some jobs in the industry.
A cultural tradition that we have in this country come from all sorts of community gatherings and communications.
And, for instance, the Founding Fathers met in bars and pubs to create this idea of self-governance or to expand upon it.
And what we have now are people who are completely dejected, don't meet once a week, there's no culture, there's an increase in crime and the mechanization of the state.
What I see...
Well, hang on for a moment.
unidentified
Because you're both making two different arguments, and the real situation is there is a balance between the two because Tim is talking about what the important thing from his perspective is that the society and the culture take precedence and the real situation is there is a balance between the two because Tim The society and the culture take precedence over the economy, right?
The economy lives to serve the society and the culture because the society and the culture are the people.
So the reason that you worry about economic graph go up or however you want to phrase it, the reason you worry about those things is because that is in service to the people.
The argument that you're making, Brad, sounds like the...
People are in service to the economy.
Oh, it's that the economy is inextricable from people's well-being.
I understand that.
But the point that I'm making here is these are...
There is a balance argument here that actually needs to be argued.
And both of you are arguing to a different thing.
So you're arguing that the economy is the most important aspect.
Hold on, hold on, hold on.
I understand that.
But Tim is arguing that part of the reason why we see a decline in overall feelings of satisfaction in life, why we see people that have a higher rate of depression in our society, why we see all these negative results, In people's lives, is because we're focusing only on things like economic prosperity, and we're not focusing on having more kids, which is another symptom of the problem that Tim is addressing.
You're not addressing the problem that Tim is, and Tim is, I mean, maybe Tim doesn't understand, isn't listening to what you're talking about.
And there are people that care about their traditions, their moral frameworks, and the idea of we're going to take the manufacturing from Michigan and send it to Mexico.
It's a good thing because overall the numbers go up.
Tell it to the families in Michigan who are forced to flee as the state collapses because the hard fixed costs of infrastructure don't change and the jobs are gone.
Meaning for the average person, their share of taxes and services they have to pay for increases as people leave and there are no jobs.
Yeah, what happened in Flint, Michigan was that the hard cost to run a water infrastructure is the same no matter how many people live there up to a certain point.
So when Detroit has, let's just use hypothetical numbers, one million people.
And it costs $1 million per month to run that.
Everyone spends a dollar and nobody cares.
When the jobs were gutted from the state and the state started experiencing a mass net out migration, the share per person for the cost of water increased dramatically to the point where this area had the highest water costs in the country because there were no jobs.
So what Flint, Michigan did was they said our people are in poverty and can't afford the high cost of water from the Detroit infrastructure.
Why don't we use the Flint River?
And then you end up with Legionnaires disease and this crisis where people are now suffering and dying and getting sick because they couldn't afford the massive infrastructure as the economy collapsed.
Thank you, free trade.
But don't worry.
unidentified
It's about the decisions the local government made at every step of that process.
They didn't know that their water was bad, and they got off the expensive water from Detroit because they couldn't afford the infrastructure anymore.
We didn't have the tax base.
They didn't have the tax base because the jobs are gone and people are fleeing Michigan.
If you need one million people to sustain a system and half of them jump ship, the cost double for everybody.
unidentified
But I feel like we're kind of talking past each other because no one has ever said that free trade doesn't have consequences, that doesn't have downsides, that there aren't winners and losers.
We have to define these terms real fast for everyone because also, breaking news, Trump's border czar, Tom Homan, just said right now that while he's deporting the illegals who have committed heinous crimes after Brad Palumbo said 1950s kitchens were worse than modern kitchens, he's deporting him too.
So that's unfortunate.
But ICE is on their way.
No, but jokes aside, I do like 1950s kitchens, and I want to bring this up.
So free trade, right?
What do we define by that?
I think we're in an era where a lot of terms were defined to meet a culture where it was at, and now they've been abused.
A good example, I want to juxtapose this, we're talking about immigration, with birthright citizenship, right?
We know Trump created this block on birthright citizenship, and people start accusing him as being racist.
This idea that if you are both illegal parents, and you come to this country, and you have a kid on this solid ground in our borders, that you're...
And look, and I look at that, and people might not understand this.
I set out to explain this on the show.
Someone asked me if I would.
You know, I had my child in Australia.
I'm an American citizen.
It was extremely hard to get my child American citizenship.
People don't know that, actually.
If you have your child overseas, it's not easy to get them over.
It was like a three-month process, multiple thousands of dollars.
It was very, very difficult.
Not only that, my wife is a green card permanent resident, and to get her over seven months pregnant with our second child and not get those C-19 jabby-jabbies was also an incredibly difficult thing.
Just getting a legal resident back in the country was hard.
But also, I saw this process where even as a citizen, just to get my kid's citizenship in America while I was overseas was so complex and so hard.
I go, why is it that I'm an American citizen and it's harder for me to get my kid's citizenship than it is for any legal domestically Why are they getting easier access to citizenship for their children than I have to mine around the world?
Everything should be easier.
We should be consistent.
unidentified
It should be easier for you to get for your child.
But I'm saying it's funny because what they said constantly in the interviews at the USCIS was this.
It's like, well, I kept finding it ironic with the birthright citizenship.
They kept saying, yeah, well, like if one of the parents isn't an American, then your child's not American.
And then I'd be like, well, do I – what other document do you need from – we need an original birth certificate and it's got to be notarized in the U.S. And I'd be like – How do I get something notarized in the U.S.? Do I have to fly back?
And I'm like, maybe.
And it was months and multiple trips down to Sydney from up in Brisbane.
And I was laughing because I was sitting there to my wife.
I go, you know what's funny?
If we could just cross the border illegally.
We kept talking about that.
I'm like, we could just cross the border illegally.
My kid, you know, give birth to this other kid.
It'll be a citizen.
Our kid won't get deported.
He'll be a dreamer.
You won't have to get those double jabs while pregnant.
And I didn't really do anything illegal because the last time I crossed a border illegally was on January 6, 2021. And guess what?
If me and Tim have Pokemon cards and we're both friends and I know we have a high trust society between us and I have my cards out and he's not going to steal my holographic Charizard.
He's been looking at it.
He wants it, but he's not going to steal it because he's an upstanding gentleman and he has at least $40 or more in his bank account.
So that being said, we decide, hey, I'm going to close my eyes.
You pick a card.
I'll close my eyes.
I'll pick a card on yours.
It'll be random.
And then we can't stop the trade.
That's like free trade.
It's blind.
There's open for corruption.
But it works because we trust each other.
We know each other.
We both...
You know, he's a way higher income bracket than me, but we're in high income brackets.
And so there's some sort of connection.
But if you brought me that, you know, Walmart Haitian, you know, guy who just came here and we're trading cards and he knows that my Charizard is worth $400, I'm really not going to trust to close my eyes and do a trade because, look, I have reasons to doubt that this guy has my best interest in mind.
I have reasons to doubt, not because he's black, not because he's Haitian, not because he has a low IQ, but simply because all those ideas combined, plus I don't know him, we don't share a culture, this changes our trade agreement.
And we're going to have to set new standards, new rules, and new ideas.
So free trade could work, let's say, even now.
It's like, well, we have free trade with Canada.
Well, look at Canada now.
Canada isn't really...
We are our ally.
They have a $1.2 trillion trade deficit.
They're taking advantage of us.
They're using us as a surrogate state.
We can't really have free trade with Canada.
We have to pull that back.
unidentified
Having a trade deficit with them doesn't mean they're taking advantage of us.
Their government itself is putting it up so that they are keeping their domestic production at their priority while then making sure that they're able to sell a lot of their exports to us.
And that's free trade because we have no regulations over there.
And Apple and these other computer manufacturers says, we don't care if the employees are 16 people jammed in a 10x10 room to the point they can't quit.
So they go up on top of the building, line up, and just walk off to die.
unidentified
That's free trade.
We should restrict trade with slave labor, but not make everything in America.
So you're saying that we should do trade with those who have the same moral values as us?
unidentified
Well, not the same moral values as us.
Close enough.
Close enough.
There should – obviously, I don't think anybody – It's not free trade.
When we talk about free trade versus protectionism, it's a spectrum.
And even the most diehard economists who advocate for free trade have always acknowledged there are certain narrow sub-exceptions where some protection can be appropriate.
And so what happens in 10 years when the industry no longer exists in America?
unidentified
You don't need it.
Not every industry has to exist in America.
So what happened during COVID when, like, we didn't have vitamin C or PPE? Well, that's the problem with allowing global supply chains to be shut down.
Governments across the world shut down supply chains and economies.
All I wanted to say real quick is with a free chat.
I kind of want to know something from you.
You're about to explain something.
But I feel like, again, what I was saying about redefining terms is...
I think regardless of what free trade has been defined as, I would like to know something from you directly.
I want to know Tim and I want to know Phil too, right?
So when we're talking about free trade, I do think that this is a very, very important topic because this does fuel a lot of the other sub-arguments from the H-1B, H-1As, right?
Whether you're talking about the medical field or other high-skilled with the B. This does talk about student visas, the idea of bringing in potentially new engineers and people who are pedigreed into your economy.
This does talk about, you know, temporary...
And Donald Trump, who will clean your toilet, Donald Trump, if the Mexicans aren't here?
Exactly.
You never answered that one, buddy.
I think this does answer a lot of questions.
To what extent do we allow trade to be free in terms of unrestricted?
And is free trade, how important is that to the ethos of our nation, right?
How important is having a big economy?
Well, that's what I want to know, because I think it would matter, right?
Because to some people, it's like you would rather be like Switzerland with a smaller economy, smaller military.
More internalized, more nativist protection, keep your culture, everybody's armed, and you want to keep the homogeneity of your ethnic native population.
unidentified
I don't care at all about the homogeneity of our ethnic population.
Well, I wouldn't expect that you would, but I'm saying like obviously Switzerland does, which is why they haven't even particularly got involved in the other wars.
They've decided to hold the money and take a different strategy than having a large army.
They're also impenetrable, unlike most girls in 2025.
But the thing is that Switzerland is where it's at.
So taking the US, we are the global leader.
We are the ultimate person.
What is free trade to you and what is the importance of it?
That's where we're not lining up.
Because you haven't said the homogeneity.
It's like, I won't get into my idea.
You know where I stand on this.
It's like keeping the ethnic makeup of America, what it is, and not letting white replacement happen is huge.
I just want to know how important is free trade to you and what factors that play in the identity of our country?
unidentified
Because I don't – It's extremely important because part of the identity of our country is that we're a global economic superpower, that we're one of the wealthiest nations, the wealthiest large and advanced nation in the globe.
And we've gotten there in part because of free trade.
But let's talk about what you just said, because I think all of these issues...
I will say this.
Culture is the strongest argument against free trade.
There are no good economic arguments against free trade.
There are some narrow national security arguments against free trade in certain areas.
And then there is a cultural problem when it comes to free immigration.
I'm sorry, more so than free trade.
But the reason that you mentioned Dearborn, Michigan, which I want to go back to, Tim, that's a problem with a specific culture, frankly.
I don't think we should have more mass Muslim immigration into the United States.
But I do think we should have far more hardworking, industrious people from India, from South America, who want to come here and work hard and contribute and love America.
I was like, Elon, you're feeling proud of your point, Elon?
unidentified
No, I'm not a fascist.
The point is, now you're making me lose my train of thought.
The idea that...
The United States encourages assimilation.
That is fallacious nowadays.
The United States does not encourage assimilation.
I do think that there are things the government could do.
One of them would be simply just having the United States say, look, in America we speak English, and the government doesn't use any forms that are in any other language aside from English.
Because if you don't have a common language, you certainly aren't going to be able to have a common ideology.
I do think that the race is less important than the ideology.
If you want to go ahead and say you're...
You come from a communist country and you're not a communist?
Come on in.
But if you are a communist, we should say, no, you can't come into the United States.
If you have an ideology that is at odds with the United States, we should absolutely kick people or reject people based on that.
So I believe that there is a once again, we are now at the utilitarian versus the deontological moral philosophy of I think we as a country, if we are looking at another country driving people to mass suicide in any degree, we have to stop and say you are putting our entire trade agreements at risk because of we have to stop and say you are putting our entire trade agreements at risk because of the squalor conditions you have put these
If but one person is living as a slave, I have a problem with that and don't see why graph go up, why we should make money in any way off of a foreign country that is doing something like this.
unidentified
So one person living as a slave in a country of billions of people, what you just said, we should write off trade with the whole country.
I will stand on top of a mountain and say, and directly into the eyes, I will do it right now.
To every voter, I will look into the eyes of every voter right now and say, Brad is evil and accepts human sacrifice so that you can have a cheap iPhone.
And if you're willing to buy a cheap iPhone knowing that people are committing mass suicide, you stand along with them.
unidentified
So I'm evil because I disagree with you about trade policy?
Should we threaten to sever trade with China over the Uyghur concentration camps, the forced abortions of the Uyghur Muslim Chinese, or should we just say, well, you know, we're doing business with them?
unidentified
The world is a terrible place.
If we were going to cut off trade with every country that's violating human rights in different ways...
We couldn't trade with many countries, and most countries couldn't trade with us.
Honestly, if I didn't get an action button on my new iPhone 16, I might have actually died.
So you make a good point.
My level of poverty would have increased.
Now, what we're getting, by the way, is we're getting a super cheapening of our culture.
And I think what matters to me the most, which might be the greatest point of contention here, is that when you said about free trade, about how important it is, to me, free trade is one of the least of our value sets.
The core identity is why are we trading in the first place?
We're trading in the first place to guarantee the success of our current Right now we are operating in the West like we are on Tatooine in America.
The world is just a bunch of planets and everyone has a trading outpost and you go there and there's aliens of all shapes and sizes and somehow there's some shadow government, you know, with the stormtroopers and the empire sort of managing it all.
In reality, that's not how things work.
That is, our founding fathers created this country to literally, to be a European Over time, legally, again, my personal opinions aside...
After wars were fought, like in 1870, people came together and said, you know, maybe seeing black people as three-fifths of value may align with the founding fathers, but we're going to redefine that.
We're going to give them their ability to vote and to have full legal citizenship.
And at some point, whether you're in the comments and you're a racist and you hate that slavery ended or you're a radical progressive and that's your favorite time in history, I don't care where you fall on the political spectrum.
The point was there was an economic disagreement and that economic disagreement in some ways was about the identity of specific regions.
That did spark a war.
I'm not going down Civil War history chat.
We're not doing this.
I'm just saying this did.
And then there was a redefinition of what?
Is there an economic – was there an immediate economic benefit per se, you might argue, of making slaves citizens or at least giving them rights?
Maybe.
But the whole – well, not for everyone.
The whole point was that there was a moral direction decided by a nation to go outside of just purely economics.
It was like the ethos of who we are.
And so that was added.
That being said, the original founders' principles of what they wanted this country to be didn't change.
And I think people don't realize that just because, like, for instance, if I – I'm a citizen, but at the same time, I'm still a Jew like you, but I also am a citizen.
Our country, from the original founding of being a European colony, having this ethos, securing our offspring, creating this free state.
We realized along the way or at least came together and decided they got some things wrong about the value of other races, human life, and things in our country.
And we've grafted people in legally, like right there, 1870. Fast forward this and we realize, you know what?
Actually, besides our benevolence, I guess you used the R word, so I will too.
The greatest threat against right now Protestant Christian Americanism is that people have raped our benevolence.
Is that, you know, people went, okay, well, we shouldn't be treating black people like they're not human.
We should give them citizenship and we'll even fight to make sure they have rights.
And at the same time in this, people are like, okay, so that means illegals can come over at open border and have anchor babies.
We got to a point now where it's so corrupt and so distrusted that we're losing our identity of who we are, okay?
We haven't even dealt with the racial tensions between whites and black people substantially in a way that's even made progress, okay?
A lot of black people I know hate white people.
A lot of white people do not really like black people, and they have their reasons.
We have systemic issues in our nation that need to be solved, and now we're importing Indians, and Vivek is supposed to be the example when he's so out of touch with our culture.
I'm not going to make a comment there.
But look, this guy doesn't get it.
It doesn't mean all Indians don't get it.
I know many Indians who do.
It doesn't mean all Indians are bad.
But even the Indians that were here in small numbers are mad about the current immigration policies, are mad about what was going on because they came here because they wanted to assimilate into Western culture.
And what is Western?
It's European.
It's white society.
We've let other people in.
But when we're not white, when we're not European, we aren't the West.
unidentified
I'm sorry.
American culture is not about whiteness or preserving whiteness.
Yeah, and people have come here and assimilated, but right now what we're having is we're not having very strict immigration from, let's say, an Asian country or an African country where you're like, okay, this person obviously may have helped us in a war.
They have given us intelligence.
They care about our culture.
They've lived in the embassy.
They can come here.
And I would say there has always been a benevolence of Americans that is not racist.
You're like, everyone knows it doesn't matter what skin color you are, what race you are, who is just an American.
You've adopted and assimilated into the culture.
The problem is that that's when we defined a culture.
we had a culture, people wanted to be a part of that.
If I liked France, what am I saying?
Do I wanna go to France so that I can become like the black guys from North Africa selling trinkets in front of the Eiffel Tower?
You don't think French culture is linked to the French people?
Like, there is a genetic component of their disposition, the way that they behave, the way that they are.
You don't go to a black city and see that black people and white people can get along, that we can be friends, but there is a distinct difference by even just their athleticism or the way they express themselves, or you don't see any connection.
The point is, there's a bit of nature in nurture, but largely nurture takes the forefront.
The issue that we have in this country is that while we may recognize...
That as an American country, there can be someone who I grew up with who's black, Asian, Mexican, or otherwise, and they love Christmas and they love baseball.
We do the same things.
We're good friends.
And don't you dare insult my friend over the way they look.
The problem is white Americans have a net out group preference, meaning they tend not to like white people.
But every other race is a net in group preference.
And that's going to create racial animosity to an extreme degree.
You were talking about a very small little neighborhood in a city.
I'm talking about, but the majority black areas that the greater region of Southside Chicago, we could talk about from every country, meaning there is an understanding that, like, we've already seen it with, like, Sierra Leone.
You can't just take, or Haiti, right?
This is a good example.
Haiti, Sierra Leone.
You can't just take...
People who fundamentally value different things, like Africans who looked to ancestors in the past, were Protestants to hope in the future.
I know, but I'm saying you can't just throw on, like we saw Sierra Leone, you can't just throw on Liberia and these other places that are now, you know...
Just hotbeds of slavery.
I think Liberia is the best example of just giving them an American constitution, a parliament.
I could go and look at what's going on in India, and I can see that, you know what, by the policies they're putting in place and the fight back against the government, the government's trying to put hygiene policies in place for street vendors, and there's massive backlash.
If people don't know about this, after all those viral videos on TikTok, it's been very bad for the tourism sector.
It can also be religion, because I know the Pakistanis don't like them because they're unhygienic.
So, you know, there's not a lot of dissimilarity and genetic code between the Pakistanis and the Indians.
Obviously, it's just a line made up by the British Empire.
But my point of what I'm saying is that there still is a dispensation of these people to where, you know, I'm gonna say this in the Bible.
We can take biblical reference because...
This is what it is.
Like, when you have Hagar, and you have Abram, and you go down, and you create this, and you have the Jewish people coming from, like, Sarai, and going down here, and then you have the Hagar, the Arabs, right?
Coming down from this side.
And they both think that God's their promise.
That's why we have the war going on in Israel and Palestine.
I won't talk about that at all.
My point is, is that they're both Semites.
They both come from the same father.
But they are very different.
I would say that, in general, Jewish people are much more sedated.
Go look at a Jewish protest and a pro-Palestinian.
Very different.
Go look at Israel.
Go look at an average Arab country that isn't a proletariat elite class taking oil money from the U.S. They have different expression, different personality types, and they have, what, just a half-bit different genetics at the very top.
On top of that...
When I look at this, they're Semitic, they live in the same region, same climate, everything.
They're very different, and their values and everything.
And it can only be linked directly back to what?
What they value, what they value is linked back to who they are, and who they are is their identity.
I'm not, I'm not, I'm talking about genetics here.
I'm saying, he said that you will be wild like donkeys, your hands will be against all people, and people will be at war with you, you will be at war with them until the end of time.
And what do we see with the Arab people?
It is just constant war with the world, constant tension, and there is something about who they are and what happened with them that they have this problem.
To this day, it's one of the main issues.
unidentified
It's culture, but he thinks he's a race essentialist, I think.
He thinks people are defined in part by their skin color and their genetics.
I said that America was made to be a new European race.
race.
There was an ethnicity of Americans by our founders, which was a mixed, primarily Anglo-Celtic race.
And there was even hard disagreements on whether Irish could be a part of that.
There was disagreements whether Germans could be a part of that.
And slowly there was a new European race, like Australians.
And you can read like with white Australia policy, our policy.
Over time, we realized that, you know what, we do want to remain a European nation, but we have fundamental racial issues.
We're not trying to bring over new black people, but we do have black people living here.
What do we do with them?
Well, it's wrong what we're doing because we're also not just a white country or European.
We're also Christian.
God does not want us to be treating people like they're slaves.
He doesn't want slavery.
We're not supposed to be treating people like this.
We've given them legal documentation.
But in many ways, as you can see, there's still a very sharp difference.
There's always outliers.
There's always about 10 to 30% of black Americans who just assimilate well and have adopted the European mindset.
But there's a lot that are resistant for reasons that probably are justified, where they want their own culture.
And if you act what?
White.
If you act too European, they give you a lot of SHIT for that in their own culture.
You see that a lot.
Stop acting like this.
Stop acting too educated.
Stop acting white.
You see that today with their fight against, you know, Being too white, being quiet in the workplace, etc.
They tie our culture in with our skin color.
That being said, they are American citizens.
We have documentations because we're an empire, but they know that there's something wrong, which is why they either want Wakanda or something going on.
They realize there's some damage that's been done.
A lot of black kids, a lot of Asian kids, they literally hang out with each other because of their race, but it's a surface level thing rooted in the remnants of culture.
So when you have in Chicago being the obvious example because the history of redlining, which then ended up happening in tons of different cities, the real estate and blockbusting, real estate markets intentionally isolated certain areas of the city to sell specifically to black people.
You then created ethnic pockets.
Not that it was the first time I was ever done because you largely had this as a result of slavery.
There was white and there was black and they...
They didn't – and of course the North was extremely racist.
People like to think that they were like progressive.
Well, so here's the funny thing about the Civil War and slavery and all this is that – We didn't have Loving v.
Virginia in 1967. So we're talking about the North apparently wanting to end slavery because of – no, no.
They very much were very racist, and segregation persisted for 100 years or whatever, I should say to the extreme degree.
And so what ends up happening then is through the actual culture of the United States, the race-based policies, and largely of the slaves wanting to live with each other, you get segregated areas.
It then gets codified through – not necessarily codified in the legal sense, but it gets – Expanded through redlining and blockbusting tactics in the real estate market, which results in literal black neighborhoods in major cities that were put there through covenant.
And St. Louis largely had this problem.
What then happens is...
The grandchildren, not even the grandchildren, because we're talking about the 80s this was going on.
We're talking about literally 30-something, 30, 40-year-olds today who were forced by policy to live in areas only with other black people, so then there's going to be racial preference due to who they grew up around, and when they go to school, they're going to be like, these are the people I know from my community, and it perpetuates that stuff.
I like to think the United States, as we have abolished these things and made them illegal, and the efforts of crushing DEI have been dramatically resisting this.
This primitive, like, remnants of history of isolating everybody by race.
Those are all just modern colloquial terms that have been ingrained into our head through the reimagining and the liberalization post-World War II. There's been a reimagining of the West and the world, and it doesn't work.
Look, I'm not saying that – when I say we didn't win World War II, I'm not saying that Hitler was right.
I'm not talking about that mentality.
I meant nobody won.
I'm glad you clarified that.
I meant nobody won in terms of the fact that the West didn't win.
So no one in the West won.
The British Empire was bankrupted.
They lost their control.
The colonies are out of control.
The collapse of Rhodesia right now, the collapse of South Africa, it's a big deal.
And I've seen what happens right now with the post-colonial or decolonization of the world.
And what I'm seeing now is that decolonization went from Rhodesia to apartheid in South Africa, where everyone's like, okay, well, those are white people in Africa.
Africa's, you know, black.
It's very easy to, like, brainwash someone.
Rhodesia shouldn't exist.
South Africa shouldn't be run by whites.
In fact, if they get killed, it's good.
That's what people think.
That's what they thought.
And the U.S. did side with communists against the Rhodesian government, by the way, and we fought a Western country more British than England.
You see, like, if you want to make a race essentialist argument, I would actually argue that presupposes white people as a suicidal race that will be destroyed by itself.
Okay, I have to be so, I don't want to go down this road because we are talking about immigration.
Okay, I will actually in some ways agree with you.
I will say that we are, any race when captured by the wrong ideology and mentality could in and of itself become extinct, which is why there's so many civilizations that have become extinct or have destroyed themselves, or there's remnants of those, like Italy still exists, Russia still exists, it's not the USSR, they don't have the same power.
Empires can collapse while the basic identity can still exist.
I just want to say this, is that with white people, I've seen...
This immigration has moved, and this is what I see happening with our immigration policies, and it's fueled, ironically, yeah, by a lot of white billionaires, actually, in this country.
They're taking advantage of this.
We are decolonizing our own countries.
So what we are told is that diversity, which means less white people, is what we need as a restitution for our overseas colonialism.
And that means that we see our countries not like, we do not link our national identity with our ethnic and religious identity.
We're not a Christian nation anymore.
We're not a white nation.
Look, I could say, okay, yeah, black people live, I probably get along better with a black Christian guy than I do with my own sister or a family member who's like liberal and not following those tenets.
I probably do.
So listen.
We can have other connectors and just, you know, it's not just race essentialism.
It's like we can have religious, you know, and moral agreements on things, how we want to run our country.
What we're seeing now is the decolonization of white countries.
And I'm going to say, yes, they do exist.
They have existed, although Europe was technically named by, you know, an Eastern Empire.
The point of the matter is, is that we are decolonizing, becoming minority white.
And I saw what happened in Rhodesia and South Africa.
And I know that if we get less than a certain percent of white, these people want vengeance.
I think it's probably a bit more on the alarmist side, but I wouldn't say it's inherently incorrect considering that white is the only racial group with an outgroup preference, which means that...
If the United States becomes less than a certain percentage white, I don't know that we end up in a South Africa situation.
The issue with South Africa right now, so for those that don't know the news, there was a law, a very controversial law that was just passed, which allows the expropriation of land without public need, meaning they're literally now announcing they're going to start seizing.
Farm land from white people and stealing land from white people in general.
So here's the important thing about mean in-group bias by race necessity that makes America different from, say, Rhodesia or South Africa is that we're not looking at a single majority of one race.
We're looking at several different smaller factions within one.
Which will make things strange, but it will not be like South Africa.
So what I mean to say is...
White, according to the data that we've seen, this is going back to 2018, there's like a minus two out-group preference among white people.
White conservatives tend not to have this.
White liberals strongly have this.
But that means that with the majority of white country, you have a net favorability against whites because black, Hispanic, and Asian have an in-group preference and white liberals tend to have an out-group, meaning all races will be having a preference against whites to a certain degree.
But there will be no unifying race of the nation.
there's not going to be a majority black, Hispanic, or Asian faction that's going to be like we're the supreme race and taking over the United States.
So it's not going to be the same as South Africa.
unidentified
And we have legal protections and a system They just change the legal protections in South Africa.
It can all be undone But the American system is more resilient than most.
Yeah, I disagree I mean, D.C. is a literal federal jurisdiction which should have the strongest constitutional protections and it's one of the most nefarious for being against a second amendment I've never heard that argument, but that's...
With people saying that this is you saying, oh, this is racism.
No, because I'm not saying that the people here are less valuable.
I'm not saying that they don't matter.
And I'm not saying that if I went to their country that I should go enslave them or I have authority over them.
What I'm saying is that just like India wanted the British out because they saw a disparity and now they're literally still hanging on to the technology and infrastructure that they gave them by 400 people.
I mean literally hanging off the sides of the trains barely still running in that country.
They wanted their own country and they got it.
What we're seeing in the West is that whether people like it or not, no matter how much brainwashing is going out there, young European heritage men, particularly which voted 36 points skewed towards Trump, which was shocking.
Trump mentioned this, by the way, have eyes.
And we've seen what's happened in the world.
We are not preaching a message of hate.
We are not.
Almost all of us have.
My kids are dual citizens.
My wife's an immigrant.
I don't want to get down that 2016 talk.
All of us are either interracially married or married to immigrants.
I was an immigrant in another country as if I'm against immigration.
That's absolutely ridiculous.
I'm literally an immigrant resident of a foreign nation.
I'm not against this.
But when you look at the totality, what we're seeing here is not me living in Australia for a couple of years and we pretty much have the same culture and I'm adding money into their economy and I hire one of their people and we're creating a connection.
What we're seeing is You know, an Indian person come in and the white guy's sitting here.
We have, you know...
Me and you and Tim.
And Tim's the Indian.
And then you and I are going, let's hire the...
You've seen this meme?
Let's hire the most qualified person.
And then the Indian, because of their caste system and in-group preferences, I want to hire people who look like me.
And then there are two Indians.
And you're going, I want to hire the most qualified person.
Now, obviously, there's two to one.
You're going to start hiring more Indians.
And all of a sudden, there's an Indian in your seat and everyone's Indian.
So you get one person in to an HR department that believes the woke ideology, and then they look at the applicants that are coming in, and they're going to choose the person that shares their woke ideology, and you get two in there, and you get a third or fourth.
That's what's happened, and that's why there's all this DEI and stuff in corporate America, is because these people with these ideologies went to the access points.
But, you know, obviously a Slavic person will have different facial features and they're more easily identified than, say, like an Iberian, Spanish or whatever.
But if a white guy living near his village encountered a black man, there was going to be an immediate concern because they know neither of them is from each other's tribe or community.
We today are way better than this.
But there are still groups and countries around the world that still are very much like we don't trust certain people.
unidentified
Sorry, can I just say that the thing about the American tribe, though, is that it's uniquely not about race.
So when you look at expats, for example, in Paris or in London or Madrid or something, there'll be a community of American expats who live there, who get together, and they're not all white people.
They're not all black people.
What they have in common is that they're all American.
With mass migration coming to the United States and we're encountering a lot of illegal immigrant criminals, what's happening now is people are starting to become more racist.
And we also see this with the emergence of DEI and things like this.
You start mass-importing people from other countries through open immigration, and what happens then is someone walking down the street gets mugged by a guy who doesn't speak English.
The black community in Chicago said, quote, we are being replaced.
This is not white people saying this.
And so black people in Chicago all of a sudden are encountering Venezuelan gang members.
There's a huge controversy.
Trende Aragua coming into the cities, and all of a sudden now, black communities are like...
We don't know if the Mexican guy we're bumping into, Latino guy, is going to be my homie who lives down the street or it's going to be Trende Aragua who came here illegally.
We don't know.
However, they do know that when they see another black person, that's not Trende Aragua.
Trende Aragua is not coming from Africa.
It's coming from Venezuela.
So this is – the mass migration actually shattered this – like I grew up in a neighborhood with people of different races and we all know we entrust each other.
unidentified
Well, to be clear though, that's not a problem with migration.
That's a problem with an – Just to be clear, my position has always been we need a strong and secure border, but a system of open and orderly legal immigration.
So that would imply that in the United States, what we're protecting is not whiteness or being white, it's the moral framework and traditions of this country.
This is why I said, as a Christian, that's why it's very important.
There's always been a debate on which founding fathers were Christian or not.
This was built on Christian foundation and principles.
Not Judeo-Christian, but Christian.
And the key thing about that is that, yes, that's why I just said that I would get along better with a black guy who was a believer in the Bible and the principles than I would a liberal white person, which is why I made that distinction.
We're not just going, okay, whatever.
So do we then import all the black Christians?
From Africa?
No.
Just because you're Christian doesn't mean you still share, let's say, similar...
You might not be a good roommate with me.
If you're just a black guy and a Christian from Africa, you might not be a good roommate.
What's the number one thing?
Well, maybe you don't even have a credit card and ability to help me pay rent.
There's other factors to living with people versus respecting them.
A lot of the ideas that you're presenting were prevalent in Eastern Asia, well, a thousand years before Europe ever— Do we eat a lot of teriyaki bowls?
The woke people believe that it was white European settlers who traveled around the world and spread whiteness around and a lot of cultures assimilated into what they were forced to by the European colonists.
And right, so the point I brought up is it is absolutely correct that white Europeans went around the world and imposed these worldviews and things like that.
They have largely changed.
But a lot of these ideas also did originate in other places, largely in Asia.
You know, for lack of better words, would be considered, I think he's probably banned on most social media, and he would be considered a very fundamental race realist.
He was born in Japan, and he was born in Japan, and he's very much, when he's there, he can assimilate.
Because, you know, as much as Japanese people may accept him, and I'm not saying, I'm not Japanese, I don't get to decide if they accept him or not, I'm sure he gets along, and I know Japanese people in general.
Can be very understanding of some outgroup preference.
The Japanese attacked everybody, and they were very racially supremacist.
They said, we are better than everybody.
And there's a lot of theories as to why that happened.
One is that as an island nation, you couldn't flee.
And so as war broke out and fight for resources, it was only the most brutal and aggressive that would survive.
Whereas in China, and less so in Korea because it's a peninsula, but China, you could move.
And so the freer a group was to flee a fight, which was more likely, the less likely they were to be a warring.
I'm up against the water.
What do I do?
And so Japan, being an island nation, all these different feudal factions go to war with each other in the most brutal survive and wins, and they say, we're going to expand, because that's what their culture had built on.
That was the evolutionary psychology.
So then they go to Korea and they brutally rape, murder, pillage, and enslave.
The Koreans countered this by saying, actually, we are the superior race.
Because the Japanese were trying to instill in them, destroy your culture, your way of life.
We are better than you.
So the resistance of Korea said, no, we're better than everyone else.
And thus you end up with this, like, in Asia, everybody thinks they're supreme.
Like, you know, in the United States, we talk about white supremacy and the left freaks out about it.
It is, because obviously even then there's different economic systems with different countries.
I know you and I vehemently disagree on probably a few topics, but I think it's...
Outside of the realm of a good faith argument if we don't even understand where we also agree to.
Because I think what the point is, is I think everyone can agree with, by the way, Phil, very good point about the HR thing.
I'm going to keep that one because when you bring up race, just like the word swastika or anything, some things trigger people's brains.
We talk about race, people get really defensive.
But talking about HR departments and ideology, sometimes it's probably a better way to explain what's happened, including the communist takeover of all of our institutions.
This stuff can become very, very destructive.
But that being said, I think what we can agree on and what Trump's doing and what we're going to see the next four years of Nazi, Nazi, Nazi, Nazi, you know, we already got the salute with Elon Musk.
We're only like one day into his first day into his campaign and we've already gone back to the 1930s argument.
Look, I'm not coming from a racist perspective and I think a lot of people like me aren't and people are tired of us being called racist.
We are not arguing that anybody in this country that is a legal American is not an illegal American.
We are not arguing to take away their rights.
We are not saying that they do not or cannot vote where we are.
Where we're at right now is a much further back argument.
Not even that we're trying to get there.
That's not what I'm saying.
Just we're way further back.
So it's funny people accuse us of this.
This is a growing huge percentage of the country.
There are people with deep historical roots to this country.
Like my family who was here before the founding who fought in the revolution.
So the point is, is that I'm explaining to you that What we're seeing now is exactly what Trump is defining by the birthright citizenship from trade to immigration, H-1B. There are abuses that are radically and rapidly transforming our culture, our ethnic homogeneity to a point that we cannot keep up with.
So if you don't want us to be a homogenous country and you want assimilation, we are having immigration levels.
We have 20 million just in the last four years, 10 million illegal, 10 million legal come in in just four years.
So I'll just end this by saying, even if you or I are correct, where we come to an example, it's saying...
We had values.
I'm not just saying, oh, that everyone's white or whatever.
I'm saying that we had to limit immigration.
You see from the very beginning, how much of our birth rate do we want to be natural?
Maybe we should stop discouraging internal birth rates and promoting abortion and figure out what's going on in our food supply with low testosterone and just import and bait and switch our people.
That's what I'm saying.
Our people are not replaceable.
Assuming that all the Americans here are here, let's put a moratorium on this immigration issue.
Let's have these discussions.
Then let's discuss what is an American.
Let's agree to disagree on some points.
Let's agree we're all legally Americans in this room.
I don't know anyone that could legally even disagree with that.
So, yes, but that doesn't mean I want 5,000 people named Vivek and Gupta coming in to compete at wages and that they deserve that or they have any right to this country.
At least with the people here, we're bringing in 20 million people.
This is not 85,000 H1Bs.
This is 20 million people in just four years.
Our country is losing the ethos and its value.
We already don't control our own political system.
I am afraid that we are heading towards a Empire collapsed.
And now you've got numerous cities that are trying to enact non-citizen voting.
And it's very, this is all predictable.
It's very obvious.
I blame Ronald Reagan largely.
I love it when people are like, Reagan was the greatest president.
Oh yeah.
When he gave amnesty and then created the crisis in California, which turned it into a sanctuary state, blue state, perpetually.
The story of California is actually quite interesting in that...
The simple version is Reagan gave amnesty to certain young people, and then when they tried passing a law in the 90s that would stop the use of public funds on non-citizens, those children who now had the right to vote voted against it because their family were non-citizens and didn't live here.
So it's actually quite simple with mass migration.
I don't care about the ethnic argument.
I believe about the culture and the moral value argument.
But when you bring in tons of people...
And then give them any kind of weight in government, be it through the electoral process for the president or congressional seats.
The people like AOC, they'll come out and tell you outright, I represent the undocumented.
And the undocumented interests are not in this country.
They're in their family that largely are outside this country, meaning they either want them to come here or they want to send money to them.
The people in this country...
Who have been here for a long time have interests in, like, my dad used to play at that park when he was a kid with my grandpa.
I want to play with my kid there.
But someone who came here 10 years ago is going to be like, what park where?
I don't know.
And then when it comes to voting, it's actually really simple because we've seen this happen.
Let's say this is a small town.
This is the Springfield, Ohio argument.
You have 10,000 people, and they have a city council meeting, and they say, should we allocate funding to restoring Spring Park?
And then a guy stands up and says, my great-grandfather.
Taught my grandfather how to play baseball.
Who taught my father.
Who taught me.
And I'm now teaching my kids at that park.
This park should be restored to the beauty that it once was.
And I hear a move that we allocate funds from this city and our tax base so that we can restore this park.
Everyone claps and cheers.
Then you bring in 5,000 non-citizens.
And they migrate to this area.
And they hear that argument and they go, what are you talking about?
What is baseball?
We don't care about that.
We need to set up a new immigration entry center or something for what we care about.
Or whatever it may be.
We want a non-denominational community center.
We don't care about your baseball field.
That argument isn't wrong, but it goes against what we as Americans who live here and have inherited traditions care about.
So when the argument becomes, we should be able to look.
We're going to improve the economy by bringing in mass migration or whatever.
The numbers are going to be great.
It tears away at the unquantifiable things that we care about and want to pass on to our children that we think we're good.
The reason this is bad in the long run, that we don't maintain these traditions.
unidentified
But that primarily relies on the idea of non-citizen voting.
Don't allow non-citizen, undocumented people voting.
I specifically reference how in California they gave amnesty to the children of non-citizens or through, say, birthright citizenship.
And when those people grew up, they did not recognize why a park where your grandfather played baseball has any value to the community, and they vote against it.
Their argument is not wrong.
To them, the park has no value.
But to the people who live there, it is of the utmost value.
The reason why it's important is that evolutionary psychology and cultural traditions are not immune to the pressures of evolution.
Basically, good ideas persist, sometimes bad ideas too, but we usually weed them out.
When we build a society and certain things work for us and it leads to success, we seek to maintain those things.
This is human history, period.
When some things don't work, they dissolve.
The Soviet Union lasted only 69 years.
America is over 250 because good ideas persist and we want to maintain and preserve those.
If we erode at those good ideas, say, we now vote.
You, good sir, your family's been here for 10 years, your children were granted amnesty, or they now grant a congressional seat, and the member of Congress is voting at the federal level.
You then end up with voting on interests that don't recognize the moral traditions and values that resulted in the success of this country, and then you actually will end up with cultural decay and degradation, moral decay and degradation, crime, etc.
We could talk about multiculturalism in the greater sense.
You end up with, say, Dearborn, Michigan, having female genital mutilation at extreme degrees, and the community there voting in favor of it, rejecting outside pressures to make it stop.
unidentified
Yeah, well, I think that's a unique aspect of that one particular culture that had some pretty toxic ideas.
It's a specific example of a very extreme bad thing, but when I point out...
I'm simply highlighting that extreme bad things have happened, which we should stop, but understand that at the granular level, that may be what we would describe as acute malfeasance through cultural difference, or maybe malfeasance is not the right word, but a unique crisis that we can see right away.
What do we not see?
There are certain things that are below the threshold of reaching national news.
So when you get a news report about Afghan refugees in Sweden that are raping little boys, and this is a practice in Afghanistan, it's very common, where groups of young boys will capture another young boy and they'll rape them in the ass.
So let's say there's a threshold of a depravity that has to be met before a society reacts.
Those things are extreme.
Female genital mutilation and the raping of small children, shocking to a society, and they say that should be stopped.
If one instance of that happens, you can get a reaction from a society.
What if you get 100 instances of a community saying, we don't want baseball fields anymore?
Well, no one's going to publish a national news story saying that the community has voted against a baseball field, but that means the baseball field will be gone.
unidentified
If people still want baseball fields, if a lot of people still want them, they'll still be baseball fields.
If me and my roommate every day vote for lunch and we agree pizza is the best lunch, we have pizza every day.
We are very happy with this.
We say, I want to continue living this way.
It's conducive to our success.
Then two people are moved in by your landlord with, you know, he's the guy who owns the apartment, says they're going to live here now, and vote for lunch.
And you guys say pizza and they say cheeseburgers.
And you go, whoa, whoa, whoa, but we don't want cheeseburgers.
Too bad.
We all pull our money together and we vote.
Now we have a dispute.
One new guy moves in.
He's the tiebreaker.
And now you never have pizza again.
That is not a national crisis and it's not a wrong opinion.
It's the loss of our moral tradition and our values, which many people who live here, whose ancestors sacrificed and dedicated their lives to building up this place, we are sad to see It's unquantifiable.
It is not wrong.
That some South Americans who move here don't want a baseball field.
They're entitled, when they're here, to express their opinions as what we should allocate funds for.
And when you get a member of Congress who has 17% or whatever their district be undocumented, illegal, or otherwise, they are going to pursue the interests of that group.
And that group largely is going to say, I don't know or care why that statue is important.
But the people who said, that's a statue.
Of my friend's great-grandfather who died in World War II, saving the life of a small child who went on to rescue a bunch of Jews, whatever the story may be.
The people who don't live here and aren't from here don't know or care.
unidentified
I think increasingly a large share of native-born people...
And I think a large component is free trade, which is why I brought the issue up.
When we have community centers and a requirement for industry to train young people because the industry hub is in that place, but we outsource all that stuff away, there's no longer communal gatherings or cultural gatherings, and that's one component of the moral degradation and the degradation of tradition in this country.
Oh, I brought that up to make a really good example.
When you guys were talking about billionaires and the powerful elites, Jeff Yass is maintaining Chinese influence and propagandistic control in the United States for his economic interest.
It's like a nagging wife or something like that that's never satisfied.
Not my wife.
I love you, baby.
But the other ones.
What I meant is, look, I came on here and I see all these conspiracies about things.
People in the chat like, oh, Elijah hasn't been mentioned this or that.
Did Tim tell him this?
Listen, Tim has never once...
He never told me a topic is off the table.
He never told me words I cannot say on the show.
He never told me anything.
I understand that this is a platform and that we're talking about very complicated and contentious topics that if you talk about them the wrong way, it's not Tim that will get mad.
It's the people at YouTube that are going to get the most angry.
I know I'm doing the shameless thing, but we decided, we've been on Rumble for so long, and we decided, look, I love being based.
You can follow my show Slightly Offensive on there.
It's been around for years.
You'll love it if you like talking about naughty things you can't talk about on YouTube.
That's on Rumble only.
We don't even stream on YouTube.
We gave up our channel.
500,000 subscribers just shut it down because we don't use it anymore but we do have Almost Serious on YouTube which is our new conversational show that is made for YouTube and it's doing the first episode just launched and a new one launches right now at 12 o'clock Eastern time and so that's all I want you to do if you saw this go subscribe to that new show Shoutouts?
unidentified
Yeah, well, first, thanks for having me.
Also, I want to apologize.
I was a little too shady towards you saying you don't have people on.
I was wrong about that.
I looked into it more.
The reason I said that is because I've seen you had some NPC types on, but you have more than just that.
It's a daily show, man.
Every day you've got it.
I'm sorry for saying that.
I appreciate you having me in the conversation.
Difficult format, but if people want to hear some more of my thoughts or longer form takes on what I think and why I think it, they can check out my podcast, Brad vs.
Everyone, or just my YouTube channel, Brad Palumbo.
I mean, so I told her, I was like, look, you know, we got a big show and a lot of people, and if you get, if I'm healed enough to be able to talk and work by Monday, you will have saved the show.
Everyone will be very grateful.
And she's like, I think we can get it done.
But I gotta be honest.
I'm looking up the, like, I'm looking it up.
The recovery time is one to two weeks.
Yeah, it's like, it's surgery.
It's not, and it's like your face is swollen, your eye is black, you have a nose bleed.
Okay, obviously not being able to afford dental care and getting dental care is a worse combo than being able to afford it.
But, like, it's one of those things that even if you can afford it easily, it's like when you sit down and you hear the original, like, the drills, like, I really, this is, I wish I had some...
I will also stress that I want to thank all of you as members, because before we were doing membership at TimCast.com, there was a period where I actually had to get a crown put on to repair with the root canal that has now gone bad, had to get it repaired.
And I couldn't work for like three or four days.
And that's just money's gone.
Like, it sucks.
And you don't know if you're going to be able to pay the bills.
But with members, You guys, through thick and thin, are here making sure the company can keep going.
And the best thing about you guys being members for me is that you allow me sick days when I have no choice but to take time off.
So thank you all so much for being members.
Thanks for hanging out.
And I will see you all.
I'll pop in Monday if I can't do the show and wave with my swollen face and ice on it.
