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Dec. 13, 2024 - The Culture War - Tim Pool

02:02:36

$100,000 Bitcoin, Becoming A Bitcoin Millionaire, The END Of The Dollar

Tim joins Ben Askren, Jack Mallers, & Ben Werkman to discuss the future of Bitcoin and the collapse of the US Dollar. Host: Tim Pool @Timcast (everywhere) Guest: Ben Askren @BenAskren (X) Jack Mallers @JackMallers (X) Ben Werkman @BenWerkman (X) Producers: Lisa Elizabeth @LisaElizabeth (X) Kellen Leeson @KellenPDL (X)

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tim pool

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Speaker	Time	Text
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		So a few years ago, Bitcoin spiked to around $20,000.
		And everyone in their grandma was rushing to buy as much as they could.
		People mortgaged their homes to purchase Bitcoin.
		And then shortly after that, it dropped down to like 13. And all of these people panicked, not literally everybody, but a lot of these people panicked and sold everything and said it was a mistake.
		I can't believe I fell for this.
		Now I'm in debt.
		And now Bitcoin is at $100,000.
		So lesson learned, I hope, for the people who bought and just said, I'm chill.
		We'll just sit back and wait, not panic.
		They just got a 5x return on their investment.
		Bitcoin has consistently done this, and anybody who's been paying attention knows that...
		I'll just put it this way, guys.
		You know, my one regret is knowing about Bitcoin since 2011 and not just using it as a bank account, essentially.
		If every time I got a paycheck, I bought Bitcoin instead of putting it in the bank, I'd have hundreds of millions of dollars.
		So the guys are laughing now because of what they know.
unidentified		That's actually what he does.
unidentified		I actually don't have a Bitcoin bank account, but Jack does, so.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Well, so Jack, let's go around and have everybody introduce themselves.
		Who are you?
		What do you do?
unidentified		My name's Jack.
unidentified		I've been in Bitcoin for 12 years, and I'm the founder-CEO of Strike, and we sell Bitcoin financial services.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		So you're rich.
unidentified		I'm alright.
		How about this?
		How about this?
		I own zero dollars.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		I own Bitcoin, my house, my business.
		That's it.
		It's been that way for a long time.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Right on, sir.
unidentified		I am Ben Askren.
		I was a wrestler fighter on Wrestling Academies.
		I was a Bitcoin advocate.
		I didn't get into it as early as you guys.
		I was 2017, but this is going into my third cycle, so I'm all in.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Right on.
unidentified		Yes.
unidentified		Ben Workman I got a fun ride and I'm really happy to be here with you guys.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I got a couple stories to start off for you guys.
		So I think, you know, most people who know my Bitcoin story who watch the show have heard this, but bear with me so I can tell these gentlemen so they can laugh at me.
		In 2011, in like January, I was hanging out at a hacker space in California.
		Bitcoin's at 70 cents.
		It was like March or something, somewhere around there.
		And I look up my buddy Jeff.
		Jeff.
		I'm looking at you, Jeff.
		And I said, I was like, I got $5,000 saved.
		I'm not going to do anything with it.
		What if I just bought a bunch of this Bitcoin stuff?
		I mean, it's sitting in the bank anyway.
		And he goes, I don't know, man.
		You're going to give all your money to some dude on the internet for what?
		Internet points?
		And then what?
		It's a scam?
		They run off with your money?
		And I was like, yeah, I guess good point.
		And then I think a few months later, like $5.
		And I was like, damn!
		Damn, I've had so much money!
		Now, I think if you do the math, it's something like $400 million.
		But to be fair, come on.
		If I bought Bitcoin at 70 cents, as soon as it hit $5, I would have cashed out and been jumping up and down with 20-some-odd grand, being like, yeah!
		The other funny story is, I've known Max Kaiser for a really long time, Max and Stacey.
		It's just – it's like a couple years after this.
		Bitcoin is at, I don't know, like $17.
		And Max is like, Tim, hang out with me long enough.
		You're going to be rich.
		And I'm like, OK, Max.
		And he's like, just buy Bitcoin.
		I'm telling you to hold on to it.
		And I was like, yeah, I'll buy Bitcoin.
		I don't know, whatever.
		And I sold what little Bitcoin I had when I needed some cash for rent.
		And if I had just listened to what Max was telling me, I'd probably have $100 million.
		So then, you know, regret, I suppose, at some point, a couple years after that, I was just like, I'm just gonna buy a bunch of Bitcoin.
		And so in the mid-2010s or whatever, I bought a good amount, and I'm very, very happy with my purchase.
unidentified		Nice.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Tell me about where you guys are at.
unidentified		Well, I was talking to these guys before, and we said the Microsoft, they just put it up for vote of their company should buy it as a treasury reserve asset.
		Bitcoin, it was 99.45, do not buy it.
		And I said, to me, that's like what society's at right now is 99.45.
		Don't understand Bitcoin.
		There's probably 0.5 to do.
		And you have to take a few steps to really understand Bitcoin.
		And I think the very, very first step that most people don't understand is, what is money?
		They don't understand that.
		And if you can't understand what is money, you obviously won't get Bitcoin.
		And then the second step is, well, what is good money?
		What values do I want the money that I hold to have?
		And so, you know, like, I, most of my liquid assets are in Bitcoin, but Jack's further.
		Jack doesn't have a bank account.
		He said, hey, I think he probably talked me into it, but I'll probably talk to him more afterwards and go all the way, all the way down that rabbit hole.
		But, you know, so once you understand what is money and what is good money, then you can start taking the road to Bitcoin.
		And if you don't understand those things, you may just be in for the number go up.
		Oh, number went up.
		I made money.
		Oh, great.
		And that's it.
		You don't understand.
		That's all you understand.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Well, so you transact everything in Bitcoin?
unidentified		Yeah.
		Well, I mean, I approach it with first principle of the dollar only goes down with time.
		How much do you want to own of a thing that only goes down?
		None of it.
		Okay?
		Bitcoin only goes up with time.
		How much of the thing that only goes up do you want to own?
		As much as possible.
		So I looked myself in the mirror at some point and I said, well, why do I own any dollars if they only go down?
		Is it because I've been programmed and my first principle of thinking has been stripped from my brain by going to university?
		Why do I own any of these things?
		And so the way I set up my life and our company, we sell this product, but I'm not even here to be a salesman, is I get my paycheck, direct deposit, 100% converted into Bitcoin.
		And it's an account routing number, and I pay my bills from my Bitcoin balance as well.
		So I spend on credit cards.
		Credit cards are a great product for me because I get to spend the thing that only goes down without having to own it.
		And so I got an AMX, Chase Sapphire, Fidelity card, and then at the end of the month, my...
		Account pulls from my Bitcoin, converts to Bitcoin, pays the bills.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Automatically.
unidentified		Automatically.
		And people get really hung up on the tax burden.
		But what people don't understand is Bitcoin is taxed as a capital gain.
		Capital gain means you made money.
		Capital gain means Bitcoin went up.
		And so yes, the fact that I have to share my gain with the government, we can talk about the philosophical debate all day long, but the reality is this.
		I'd rather give the government a little bit of my gain than have gotten debased and inflated.
		That's the ultimate tax is if I'm sitting in dollars.
		So the fact that I'm in the best performing asset of all time and I have to share a little bit with the government when I pay a bill, that's a way better deal than just getting persistently poor forever And so listen, like Bitcoin's up over 100% this calendar year.
		100% is a fancier way for those at home of saying that things more than doubled.
		More than doubled if it's my base checking account, if it's my capital asset.
		That's another way of saying my life's gotten over half off this year.
		So, right?
		I mean in fiat, in dollar terms… What is just getting by today is poverty tomorrow.
		In Bitcoin, what is poverty today is good enough for tomorrow, right?
		So I've reversed my life entirely.
		Things get cheaper for me.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		But you know what's crazy, too, about the taxes is if you end up owing taxes at the end of the year, they charge you the inflationary interest.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		So it's like if you owe $100 in January, next January, it's $104.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		You got to pay them more because you lost.
unidentified		Yeah.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		That's crazy.
unidentified		So crazy.
		Yeah, and Jack's done a real big service for common people, right?
		Because he's putting it in a way now where it becomes very familiar to everybody.
		I think early on in Bitcoin and when everyone's going down their own journey, people start with it as this really speculative asset, and they think that really the only thing you can do with it is trade it.
		That's kind of the way everyone viewed it for a very long time.
		And that was actually how I started out.
		I bought Bitcoin back in 2013, made the joke with my dad saying, maybe we should just buy a thousand, see how it works.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Oh, man.
unidentified		We didn't do that, unfortunately.
		But then I went from $270 to $1,400.
		I sold the initial amount that I bought, thought I was a trading pianist, right?
		Like it was a good feeling.
		I thought I won, right?
		And now time's gone on and you realize what it is that you were holding.
		And it took me a couple of years, probably until 2017, to really have it click for me what was happening.
		And that when you're looking at Bitcoin, the beauty that it brings to us is it gives everyone an education in economics that they're not going to get anywhere else.
		Right.
		Most people, when you go to school, they'll teach you all your standard talking points around inflation, but you don't really understand how it impacts your life and the life of the people you care about.
		And the reason that Bitcoin really grabbed me was because it was the only one of these digital assets that people told other people they care about about it.
		They weren't trying to get people into a speculative play to pump it.
		Like you're telling your family members, you're telling your close friends, like it's one of the only assets that you find these communities going, no, really, I want you to get into this.
		And I want you to get into this because I see what's happening broadly in the world that you're not seeing yet.
		It's a protective thing that we can bring to the people we care about.
		And I think that's a really big component of what Bitcoin's brought.
		And it's really helped get the message out in a way that shows people there's an alternative now.
		There didn't used to be.
		You used to be trapped in the fiat system.
		Now there's an alternative, and Jack's building the rails for how the rest of the world's going to be able to use this.
		Well, the what is money is the critical piece, in my opinion.
		I couldn't agree with Ben more.
		What is it?
		So money is the market good that you acquire not to consume.
		Very simple but super important.
		I acquire a cheeseburger to eat it.
		I acquire a plane or a car to transport me.
		I acquire money not to eat it, not to move me around, not to live in it like a house.
		I acquire it to store, save, and exchange my labor, my effort, my time, my energy.
		Money is your time and energy in an abstracted form.
		Before money, we had barter.
		In a society of 10 people, barter's fine.
		Hey, you go hunt.
		You go build the homes.
		You take care of the kids.
		At dinner, we all exchange our services and our contributions to society.
		You want an economy of 8 billion people.
		You need an instrument to abstract your time, energy, effort, labor into a monetary market good that you acquire, again, not to consume it.
		Now, people think money is what we decide we want it to be.
		If I wanted water bottles to be money, I could be money.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Model caps.
unidentified		Right.
		Totally.
		Yeah.
		And trading cards.
		And because the government decided dollars are money, then that's what money is.
		Money is not.
		Money is a technology just like an airplane.
		If I decided an airplane was a banana and I tried to fly here to do this podcast on a banana, I would have killed myself.
		There would have been physical harm because it's not the right technology to have flown me through the clouds.
		Same with money.
		If I decide money is dollars...
		It's poor technology.
		I will just end up poor.
		I will end up with less food, less housing, less travel, less kids, less vacation, less stuff.
		So money, the most important property of money as a market good is scarcity.
		How hard is it to create more of it?
		Because I'll tell you this.
		If they can debase your money and money is your time and energy in an abstracted form, by proxy they're debasing you.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
unidentified		When they're making the money less valuable, they're making you less valuable.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		But when the – so first it's gold and precious metals, right?
		So if we go back, it's a – I actually have this really cool – I have a silver Greek coin.
		And gold was valuable I guess we largely believe because it's easy to press and it's relatively scarce.
		So that way...
unidentified		Durable.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		So these rulers were like, okay, it's going to be hard for someone to counterfeit this, and then we can assert that this is a valuable thing.
		And then at some point, you get people saying like, well, I'll store it in the bank.
		It's too heavy.
		And then they'll write me a note saying, here's how much I got.
		And then eventually it's like, I'll just give you the note.
		I've got to go get the gold.
		You can just hand this to them and they'll give you the gold.
		And then eventually the government went, we don't even need the gold.
		They severed the gold from it and said, now you have government pieces of paper that we determine is valuable.
		And if you try and copy it, we'll lock you up.
		And through threat of force and violence, they maintain that control.
		But now that they can print and access to infinity, and largely because it's become a digital, like the U.S. currency, I believe, is what, like 98% digital?
		They can just type in a computer.
		Enter.
		Boom!
		There's money.
		Instantly, all of your money becomes worth less.
		The easy way to explain it is if there are 10 apples in the market being shared between people, there's a value of that apple.
		If the government comes in and then just gives everybody at the same time a ton of money, they've just given themselves half the value of that labor force.
		They come and buy all the apples.
unidentified		And that's happened with other monies.
		Think about the Rye Stone, you know, and they were using that for a currency and then some British explorer came and they mined it all and they brought it in and it debases the currency immediately.
		The other thing I think we should note that we haven't said yet is we have been talking strictly about U.S. dollars and U.S. dollars is actually – The best fiat currency.
		Most fiat currencies are significantly worse than the US dollar, inflating at much higher rates.
		And because we've had the world reserve currency, we've been, like, insulated from further debasement.
		But, you know, of the 8 billion people, 300-some million live in America, and we've had the best treatment of fiat currency.
		But there's a lot of countries who are way worse off where, you know, they get their paycheck on Friday.
		By Monday, they're...
		That's true, but I like using the U.S. dollar because now it's real in America.
		It used to be, you guys don't understand what the government's doing.
		Trust me, if you lived in Nigeria, you'd recognize it.
		Now if you live in Manhattan, you recognize it.
		And really for me, it's no man should work for what another man can print.
		And so I don't do dollars strictly out of just principle.
		I will not live my life and contribute my time and energy for what another man can Can print.
		The property's money needs.
		Scarcity is the most important, but it needs to be saleable and liquid.
		You need to be able to exchange it at any point for whatever you need.
		You need liquidity.
		It needs to be divisible.
		It's a measuring instrument in an economy.
		It needs to be able to measure a grain of sand or a professional sports team.
		So it needs to be able to scale to any transaction size.
		It needs to be portable.
		I gotta be able to move it.
		I need to be able to verify its authenticity if I can't tell the difference between a fake and a real one.
		These are the properties that define if money is a good technology to solve the problem.
		I'll tell you where gold failed.
		Gold failed when you want a digital economy of billions of people You were reliant on a central party, corporation, or government to achieve transaction finality.
		When gold was physical in the local – I went to the local butcher, gave him a gold coin.
		I went to the local tailor, gave him a gold coin, and it was peer-to-peer.
		Gold was fine.
		As soon as we scaled the world to billions and we were on the internet, I have to deposit my gold to the government and trust that Bitcoin is digital gold in this.
		It's not only a physical bear instrument, but it's a network.
		It's a network that can achieve transaction finality without the central party.
		That's why it's better.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I know this is a little cliche to say, but you really need to just think about it.
		The U.S. dollar system is a Ponzi scheme.
		Quite literally.
		And the reason Ponzi schemes are illegal is because this dude was just basically like, I'll do what the government's doing.
		And then they're like, no, only we can do that.
		We have the guns.
		So the way I have to describe it in the simplest of terms is...
		If the four of us all agree that, you know, we're going to trade this tech deck over here, I'm going to give it to you for a dollar, you give it to him for a dollar, that all of the value of the labor that we're doing is inside our community.
		Along comes some dude with a gun who says, I got a tech deck and he holds up this weird piece of garbage and he says, I can now insert it into with doing no labor, you will now accept my goods for your labor.
		So What the government basically does by printing money, they do no labor but convince you to give you theirs.
unidentified		Exactly.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		They use that to fund wars and other – who knows what?
		Hamsters on drugs fighting and – I'm not even kidding.
		They took hamsters.
		They gave them cocaine and made them fight.
		And it's like, okay, I do understand.
unidentified		That sounds like a useful way to spend money.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		They wanted to know what cocaine did to mammals, whatever.
		I kind of think maybe you shouldn't print money and then give out these grants to just do these things.
		But once the government was able to have an infinite Ponzi scheme, the insanity started to envelop our society.
unidentified		Yeah.
		There's a great – I love the book Fiat Ruins Everything by Jimmy Song.
		I don't know how you guys feel about that book, but he kind of talks about this process where you can print essentially an infinite amount of money and you can do whatever you want.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Go nuts!
unidentified		You absolutely go nuts.
		The one that I thought would be most relevant to kind of what you talk about a lot is war.
		And so most people don't understand before we could print as much money as we wanted, we had to finance the war.
		And when the war couldn't be financed, then the war was over because we didn't have any money for it.
		And so we had to sell war bonds.
		Do you guys support the war?
		Okay, give me your money.
		If you support it, you buy the bonds.
		And then once you're not ready to support it, you don't buy the bond.
		And then the war is over because we can't finance it.
		And now we're in these freaking forever wars because we could just print as much money as we want.
		How much did we give to Ukraine?
		I don't know.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Like $200 billion or something at this point.
unidentified		But they keep failing the audits.
		So we don't actually know because they can't pass the audits.
		I think there's an argument to be made that you can't have fiat currency without war and you can't have war without fiat currency.
		I think the last hundred years has been the century of war because the last hundred years have been the century of nation states printing money.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
		I mean, it's got a good ring to it.
		There will be war without fiat, but to this scale that we are seeing, modern warfare exists because the government doesn't need to ask the people to support its wars.
		It just makes the money.
		This is a problem of just general population scale, right?
		So we talk about why are people mad at cops?
		Why do you end up with defund the police?
		Or why are people mad at healthcare CEOs?
		If you go back 300 years, you have a small town of a couple hundred people, and there's a guy who's known to be a dick who's dumping human waste in the river.
		He shows up to buy bread and they go, you get out of here!
		You screwing everything up for everybody!
		He knows that he's got a community of people who are going to...
		Excise him.
		They're going to ostracize him.
		All the people are like, no, no, no, you can't be exiled or we can't do these things.
		Now, a corporate CEO who's screwing people over and knows it can walk into any Starbucks, any store, and there's never going to be any social consequence.
		So the U.S. government...
		The people know they're ripping them off.
		The people know these wars are bad.
		They continually express their distaste for these wars.
		But the people who are making the war machine happen have anonymity and will walk into any store, any building, and no one's going to say anything.
		There's no shame.
		There's no shunning.
		There's nothing.
		Because of that, they can keep printing money and keep ripping us off while we know it's happening.
unidentified		The misuse of the dollar is really what's going to be its own downfall, right?
		We saw it particularly when the U.S. weaponized the financial system against Russia when the Ukraine war started.
		And that was really a big red flag to all the other nations to evaluate their standing.
		If you're completely reliant on the SWIFT network and the U.S. dollar, your country is now vulnerable to another country changing their opinion of you.
		And they can start cutting you off from the economics of the world.
		And I think that was a really eye-opening event.
		Where now that we do finally have an alternative that's decentralized, that's not held within any one country's borders, they're looking at this as an opportunity to say, look, if the United States is going to bully us around by having the global reserve currency right now, and they're going to put pressure on our economics of our country if we don't do what they're looking for, we have to look for an alternative.
		And you're seeing it with BRICS right now, right?
		Russia's starting to mine Bitcoin.
		as well.
		And that's important to note because the reason that they have to do that is because not every country has the luxury the US is going to have if we try to start a strategic Bitcoin reserve where we have to buy it in the dollars we print.
		We create the currency that we're accumulating Bitcoin in because we have the luxury of being the global reserve currency.
		If you look at all the other nations across the globe, they don't have that same luxury.
		A lot of them don't have the military power, a lot of them don't have the economic power, and a lot of them surrendered their own currencies to use the US dollar.
		So if you're one of those nations and you see a country even like the United States I do like your point, though, in that...
		Because it's the same thing in 2008 is that if there's no punishment consequences for poor behavior, society can't function.
		2008, the government didn't let the business cycle complete.
		If the banks messed up, then they should have gone under, right?
		And point being there is what I do think we're living through today with the red wave in the recent election is a reversion back to what's real.
		If you don't allow yourself to be governed by the immutable laws of Mother Nature, you screw humanity up.
		We are destined to be—that's what gold was.
		Gold was a good money for a long time because it's governed by the laws of Mother Nature.
		If you try and abstract your own universe, like your own Narnia, and govern human beings and society abstracted too far away from Mother Nature, you screw things up.
		That's when people are like, I'm just going to have a Beyond Beef burger instead of a ribeye.
		Are you nuts?
		That's when humans get so abstracted away.
		But what I'm inspired by right now in America is a reversion back to what's real.
		Fuck those burgers.
		I'm going to eat a steak.
		At some point, people were educating me in university.
		That the way government was spending money and going to war was a good thing, right?
		At some point, someone was saying, no, Bitcoin's bad.
		But now, Trump wants to buy Bitcoin.
		Now people are eating ribeyes.
		I do think that we will see a reversion back to the means.
		There's a lot of cyclical behavior in this stuff.
		And we got too far abstracted, society did, and punished badly for not being governed by the universe, in my opinion.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Well, so let me ask you guys a question.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Trump's talked about a strategic Bitcoin reserve.
unidentified		Yes.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I mean, if Trump buys $500 billion in Bitcoin overnight to create a reserve, I mean, the price is going to jump, what, 20% instantly or what?
unidentified		More, more.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		Because certain people just aren't going to sell.
		Like, I'm just not going to sell my Bitcoin.
		He's probably not.
		He's probably not.
		So you have probably this really large illiquid supply where we're just not going to sell it at probably any price.
		Well, I mean, Bitcoin's the only—they call it a scarcity.
		It's the only thing with an actual fixed supply.
		In financial markets, with more demand comes more supply.
		If everyone wants an iPhone, Apple can make as many iPhones.
		You can't make any more of this thing, so we've never seen price discovery in something.
		The only thing that's as scarce as Bitcoin is your life, is time.
		You're right?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		So I lost about 20 Bitcoin 12 years ago.
unidentified		I had a laptop, RIP. What are you thinking, Tim?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, it was worth something.
		It was like $27 on my laptop.
		And so it got destroyed in a fire.
		Not by fire, by the sprinklers.
		Just wiped the whole thing out.
		And I was like, whatever.
		I threw it in the garbage.
		But there's an attrition to Bitcoin.
		So Bitcoin's got a cap of $21 million.
		It's currently at $19.79 million.
unidentified		I've been mined.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Have been mined, right.
		And it's becoming exponentially harder.
		I don't think we'll ever actually reach the 21 million technically, right?
unidentified		2140, I believe.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		2140?
unidentified		Yeah.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		But in that time period, there is going to be loss.
		I mean, the scariest thing is when people put in the wrong address.
		Gone.
		I mean, this means simply mathematically over time, Bitcoin will be lost.
unidentified		Correct, yeah.
		So what do we do?
		I want to say the estimate 20-25% are already lost, I believe is what estimates are.
		I mean, then it's even more scarce.
		I mean, we're saying the positive thing about it is that it is scarce and can't be recreated.
		And that's, you know, no other asset in humanity is like that.
		And so that's the good thing, not really the bad thing.
		If you're saying, how are people going to transact because we're going to run out of it?
		I just don't see that being the case.
		And Bitcoin can be broken down, like Jack said, right to visibility.
		One hundred millionth of a Bitcoin is a Satoshi.
		So it goes.000090.
		So it can be broken down to pretty small parts.
		As long as the monetary unit is divisible, it can scale to society.
		So it should be fine.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		What is – do you guys view and think there will be an upper limit to the value of a Bitcoin?
unidentified		Well, I like – I don't remember who said this first, so I'm obviously stealing this from somebody, but they say the US dollar is, you know, they can print into infinity, which they are, right?
		And so, but Bitcoin is 21 million over infinity, right?
		So infinity, all value in planet Earth is going to go into Bitcoin, into the 21 million.
		It all depends on the denominator you're using, right?
		Right now, the predominant way that we're valuing everything is in U.S. dollars, right?
		It's Bitcoin, U.S. dollars.
		But I saw a chart the other day that I thought made a really good point in terms of how you're looking at the value of Bitcoin.
		And what people are looking at is they're looking at the dollar like it's stable and Bitcoin's going up, where in reality it's Bitcoin that's stable and the dollar's going down.
		So when you start changing the way you're thinking about it, it changes how you look at the value of Bitcoin.
		But I think that the quote you're looking for out a lot of this was, if the dollar has no limit or if the dollar has no limit.
		The dollar has no bottom, Bitcoin has no top.
		I got you.
		That's what I was looking for.
		We got a third try.
		One, two, three, we got it.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		So I think Bitcoin does go up in value.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		and dollars do go down in value simultaneously.
unidentified		Yes.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I think you could actually do a—I don't think it would be that complicated to actually find the true stability of Bitcoin and its gains simply by looking at purchasing power, comparing it to perhaps houses might not— A house is a good one.
unidentified		They got a chart of that.
		Get that one up there.
		That's a good one.
		My wife loves real estate and I just order this chart all the time.
		I think the best...
		To me, the best way to measure Bitcoin is in energy terms.
		Because again, money is intended to be your time and energy in an abstracted form.
		So how can I measure in energy terms?
		So I think Bitcoin charted against oil is fascinating.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's probably a good one.
unidentified		I don't think people measure that enough, right?
		Because really what you're trying to understand is the hardness of the asset.
		Bitcoin is going to go up against...
		It's Nigerian Naira more than dollars because it's harder to make more dollars than Naira.
		But Bitcoin is going to go up more in dollar terms than penthouses because it's harder to make more penthouses than dollars, right?
		And you can find your denominator.
		Oil, yeah.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		This is actually a really – I think oil is a good way to do it as oil is strong.
unidentified		Longer timeframe, like five years on this one?
		Yeah, and so really what you – Oh, yeah.
		On the chart right there, yeah.
		Really what you want to do all?
		Oh, boom.
		Look at that.
		Yeah.
		And what you really want to philosophically understand here is...
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		It looks much more stable when you look at it this way.
unidentified		That's actually only a year and a half, I think.
unidentified		So it looks like it starts April of 2023, I believe.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I see.
		And that is all.
		That's all they have.
unidentified		Or 2022, maybe?
unidentified		Somewhere there.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		So the point I'm making is...
		is not going up, the dollar is going down.
		Well, it's both actually.
		As more nations adopt Bitcoin and start mining it, Russia, they want to build reserves of it.
		That demand is pulling on the existing supply, which is limited.
		At the same time, the dollar is miserable.
		It has been, I mean, one of the things that gets Trump the election is inflation.
		So we got these salami I always tell the salami story.
		A couple years ago, these little packs of salamis were $7.
		And it's like three different kinds, like a red pepper one, a garlic one.
		And we'd buy them and load the fridge up because people love them.
		And you dip it and whatever, you put cheese on it.
		They're $13.99 now.
		And it's been a couple years.
		I'm like, the price has doubled for this.
		But like you were saying, people look at the dollar like it's a stable thing.
		Like it's the line when it is not.
unidentified		Yeah.
		And they fundamentally understand that in their lives, right?
		We see this notion of core CPI, right?
		Like, they keep coming up with new ways to show what inflation looks like on the dollar.
		And when you look at core CPI, you can go, sure, as long as you don't need food or utilities or gas in your car, right?
		Things everybody needs as part of their daily life.
		That's the point, is that when you have a currency like the U.S. dollar, they can play games to generate the outcome that they want to communicate to you.
		Anyone who goes to the grocery store knows inflation is not in the 2% to 3% range.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		You want to know the sad story?
		The sad thing of that $5,000 from the beginning I told you about, I've never spent it.
		It was my savings, and I've only saved more on top of it since then.
		Got a different job, got more contracts.
unidentified		Wait, but are you saving in dollars or saving in Bitcoin?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		So now it's both.
		Now, you know, I'm very pleased to say that Bitcoin is about a thousand something.
		And I was just like, it went through those cycles where, so I had about 20 Bitcoin again in like, I can't remember what year it was, maybe 2012. It hit 20 bucks at some point.
		And then I was like, from five to 20 bucks, I get 400 bucks cash.
		I should use that.
		I can get a new phone or I can pay my rent.
		I did.
		Wish I didn't.
		But at the time, it's like, who really knew exactly where the top was going to be?
		And this was Mt.
unidentified		Gox.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		This was particularly difficult to transact.
		It was hard to find.
		The one thing, too, going back to 2011, when I was saying it was at $0.70, people are going to look at Bitcoin now with Coinbase or Gemini or SwanBitcoin and things like that, where they can just buy it and it's relatively easy.
		It was very difficult back then.
unidentified		There was nothing.
unidentified		There was nothing.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		I had the original Bitcoin app and I was getting Bitcoin from the Bitcoin faucet.
		Do you guys remember that one?
unidentified		Yeah.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Man, was it.05 Bitcoin for free?
unidentified		Yeah.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		And you just click the button.
		It's like it was worth nothing back then.
		But I had that $5,000 in savings that I said maybe I'll buy Bitcoin with.
		Never spent.
		And guess what that is worth today?
		It's worth probably a third of where it was at the time when I had it.
		So I have just lost the majority of the value of that savings.
		And if I had bought Bitcoin with it, I'd be worth like $400 million.
unidentified		Well, what's interesting is the value of it today in what?
		In Bitcoin terms, it's gotten demolished.
		It could have been hundreds of thousands of Bitcoins to now it's like.000.
		In housing terms, in dollar terms, so what you realize is measuring inflation is on a per-unit basis, right?
		It's like if...
		CPI is measured at 3%, but housing is 20% year over year.
		You've got to be getting a 21% raise every single year just to be making progress to be a homeowner, right?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		So maybe a good metric isn't housing or oil, but $5,000 can only get you so far.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		$400 million, that can buy you like three whole senators.
unidentified		That's funny.
		The other one that I like, the other chart I like showing people because they say, oh, one of the bigger, it's too volatile, right?
		If you look at, say, the 200-week moving average, it's up only, right?
		And so you don't get into Bitcoin for this quick number go up.
		You get into it because you understand it and you want a long-term hold.
		And if you look at the 200-week moving average, it's up only.
		Yeah, but people gotta grow up, man, with the whole, scared of volatility.
		No, I'm serious.
		When you go to the doctor, when you go to the doctor and they're checking your heart, and your heart looks like a flat line, what does that mean?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		What if it's slightly going up?
unidentified		That means you're dead.
		That means you're dead.
		So volatility is life, right?
		Central banks have tried to suck volatility out of this world and price control everything.
		Volatility is life.
		If you want to be a man and you want to own the future of this world, then own something that's got life in it.
		Don't be a bitch.
		Sorry.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		You are completely correct.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		And the issue is the stability of the dollar is an illusion to the average person.
unidentified		Correct.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		They look at their bank account and they see $100 and like, I have $100.
		They're not tracking the price of everything else.
		Because if they were, they'd be like, the dollar's going like this, like crazy.
		The fact that...
		Like, overnight, oil could jump 30% or whatever, and then all of a sudden, all your prices are skyrocketing.
		We end up seeing that in the past four years with inflation.
		The cost of goods became erratic.
		They spiked.
		And everybody, you know, they interview these people on the streets, and they're like, I can't afford eggs right now.
		That's because your dollar is volatile and erratic.
		Eggs are eggs.
		The labor required to make an egg stays the same the whole time.
		In fact, an egg is substantially more stable than a dollar.
		So I got...
		But it is true.
		I got chickens outside, and the chickens, we can feed them only bugs if we wanted.
		We can do a total natural chicken farm.
		You'll get less eggs.
		But then you put the wood on the ground.
		In the morning, you lift up.
		The bugs run around.
		The chickens eat them all.
		The chickens will also eat grass, and they'll find food.
		And then that egg emerges.
		And I have an egg.
		I know how much labor I need to get that egg.
		That egg is stable.
		The dollar is not.
		You go to the grocery store and eggs cost 20% more, it's because your dollar has become worth less.
		The chicken egg is the same things it always was.
		Same calories, same bird, same everything.
unidentified		Hey, I want to circle back to the strategic Bitcoin reserve that you brought up.
		We got distracted.
		Who knows what happened?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		We're having fun.
unidentified		We are having fun.
		I thought RFK actually laid out a better one.
		Trump and RFK both spoke at the Bitcoin conference in Nashville this past July.
		And, you know, Trump...
		He's Trump.
		And he laid out, yeah, he said a lot of positive big words and, you know, made people feel good.
		But RFK was the one that really clearly laid it out.
		And hopefully that's the one they follow.
		And his plan was to, I believe, get a million Bitcoin over a five-year period, 200,000 per year.
		And, you know, the thing that Michael Saylor just brought up was, what if we started selling our gold in order to buy Bitcoin?
		Because Bitcoin is essentially gold 2.0.
		And I actually loved it.
		I thought...
		Let's get it faster.
		Let's sell some gold.
		And then, honestly, if you're the first country who does it, you kind of screw all the other countries with gold.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Well, El Salvador, aren't they doing this?
unidentified		Well, they're going to start mining.
unidentified		Right.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		But, so they discovered, what, like a trillion dollars in untapped gold reserve mines?
		Three trillion.
		And then someone tweeted, like, what would El Salvador, what could they possibly do with this gold?
		And I think Nayib Bukele posted a picture of, like, a Bitcoin price tracker, like, they're going to start converting to Bitcoin.
unidentified		Yes.
		Yeah.
		I mean, I think...
		Well, so first of all, Senator Lummis of Wyoming, shout out to Senator Lummis, unbelievable Bitcoin advocate, tremendous.
		That's her bill, by the way.
		The Bitcoin Act is that you're going to take the excess reserves from the Fed banks, which is in gold, and you're going to build a Bitcoin position with that.
		And it's a million Bitcoin is the target.
		I also know Trump is looking at a day one executive order.
		There's – sorry, sorry.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Day one executive order for a Bitcoin reserve for the United States?
unidentified		Yeah, so I know that there's people looking at the Dollar Stabilization Act.
		It gives the president wide discrepancy to protect the dollar, and there's potential to use a day-one executive order to purchase Bitcoin.
		It wouldn't be at the size and scale of a million coins, but it would be a significant position, and it would be a message that the United States— Is it the first—I think it's one of the biggest economic announcements if it happens in American history, but it's the first positive one.
		Why is no one talking about that?
		The U.S. made a really big economic announcement in 1933. What was it?
		We're taking all your property, right?
		We're confiscating your stuff.
		They made a big one in 1971. What was it?
		We're divorcing ourselves from the gold standard, divorcing ourselves from the immutable laws of Mother Nature.
		We're printing money.
		They made a big one in 2008. What was it?
		We're bailing out all the bad actors.
		We're not letting consequences follow through.
		We're not letting the business cycle finish.
		If Trump makes one, it's a positive one for the first time ever.
		It's not defensive.
		It's not reactionary.
		It's pro-technology, pro-growth.
		Governments own 2% of the supply of this thing.
		Who owns the rest?
		The public.
		It's something that acts in the best interest of the people.
		So to me, if he does an executive order on day one, no matter the size, The magnitude of a positive economic announcement out of this country for the first time in 100 years that acts in the best interest of the public, where the public owns it.
		The public was first before Wall Street, right?
		Like, why is no one talking about that?
		They call him, what, a terrorist instead or whatever.
		But to me, that's the message.
		It's inspiring.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		With a market cap right now at $2.12 trillion.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		If Donald Trump signs an executive order and buys a substantial amount between $100 and $500 billion, I think that could be somewhere around $4 or $5 million Bitcoin, it's going to make millionaires overnight.
unidentified		Well, so I don't know if he'd be able to buy that many Bitcoin, because like I said, there's a lot of people who just aren't going to sell.
		And so, yeah, you're going to have to have the price.
		I mean, I might sell, I don't know, if it gets to half a million, I might sell a Bitcoin or something, but I have no need to sell any.
		You don't need to sell.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		But even then, you can sell when you need to buy something.
unidentified		Exactly.
		What are you selling into?
		Yeah.
		You better have a plan for it, because if your plan is to just go back to the system that we're trying to exit, right?
		I mean...
		Well, obviously, I would never sell all of my – so to this point, I've never sold any of my Bitcoin, zero.
		And then moving forward, it's like, again, what are you going to exit into?
		You better have a plan for it.
		And I would never, ever sell all of my Bitcoin.
		That's totally insane, right?
		It's just better.
		But I think there's a lot of people like me or, say, a Michael Taylor or an ETF. Like, they're just not going to sell.
		So I don't know what the price – if Trump wants to buy that much, I don't know what the price would go to.
		But it's going to be something – It's going to be insane.
		It's going to be totally insane.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I think we – Millionaires overnight.
unidentified		200 – Easy.
		250,000 to a million per Bitcoin within calendar year 25 has been my prediction.
		Wait, wait, wait.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		250 million?
unidentified		250,000 to 1 million in this range.
		And it's highly dependent.
		Trump's executive order purchase, if it happens, wouldn't be at the size and scale of a million Bitcoin.
		He wouldn't be allowed to do that.
		But it'd still be significant.
		I think Bitcoin's got at least a 3 to 10x in it from here over the next 12 months.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I agree.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I think Max Keiser raised his target to $2.2 million.
unidentified		Shout out, Max.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		But Max is always on the higher end.
unidentified		He's a little hyperbolic, sir.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, exactly.
		But I think what people need to consider is El Salvador.
		Here's what's really fascinating about El Salvador.
		Nayib Bekele gets in and he turns El Salvador into a first world nation of wealth and prosperity.
		Crime is gone.
		They had this big celebration recently.
		They opened the library.
		Bitcoin hitting $100,000.
		He's posting the National Reserve and how much money they've made.
		And I was playing poker over at National Harbor in D.C. The guy to my left was from El Salvador.
		And I forgot how the conversation came up, but he goes, we're actually going back home.
		Someone asked him, like, where are you from?
		And he's like, El Salvador.
		He's like, but actually we're leaving.
		We moved here to get away from the crime, but it's so nice now we want to go home.
		And I was like, whoa.
		I mean, that's massive.
		You got the Syrian civil war is over, I guess.
		They've removed this.
		Probably not.
		But Assad's out.
		And all these Syrians are like, nah, we're sticking around where we are in UK and Ireland.
		El Salvador just won them all back.
		El Salvador, this is the beginning of a nation proving that this is a path towards wealth and prosperity.
		But what I find fascinating is the hatred and resistance from the establishment, how they insulted and attacked Naive Bekele as he was doing this.
		And now Trump is in a similar position, ideologically, where naive is, arrest the gangs, shut down the cartels, Bitcoin, yes.
		We're going to be looking at a boon similarly, but we're exponentially larger than they are.
		When other nations see the same thing...
		A million is not out of the question.
unidentified		At the time, I was the kid that did that with El Salvador.
		So I was attacked by the media as well.
		I was the one that worked with them on that and announced it with them.
		So first of all, shout out.
		I was at a sushi restaurant in El Salvador and Bukele's brother DM'd me on Twitter.
		That's how that whole thing went down.
		They gave me 24 hours latitude and longitude to meet the government.
		And at the time, it was like the most dangerous country in the world.
		I texted my dad.
		I was like, man, if this is how I go out.
		I love you.
		It'd make for a good documentary.
		But I think you're right.
		I know Trump misspoke about Bukele actually a few times in his running.
		But I think you're right.
		And they're on good terms.
		And I think El Salvador is a smaller scale of what we'll see in America hopefully.
		Hopefully.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		But it's when these other nations look at what El Salvador did and then say, I want that.
		But let me throw in the greed factor real quick.
		There's going to be some crackpot warlord who's like, why don't I have $100 million?
		Buy Bitcoin!
unidentified		I mean, Bitcoin is money, so people can do whatever they want with it.
		But in the El Salvador thing...
		Bitcoin leads you down a lot of funny paths, and I started reading Alex Gladstein.
		Do you guys know who that is?
		Yeah, yeah.
		HRF. HRF. And then, kind of like with the IMF and the World Bank, they propose that they're doing good, but they really essentially just keep all these people under their thumb.
		And then, I don't want to make any statements for sure, but if you read some books, you learn some things.
		And it seems like when the...
		I can't believe they haven't assassinated him yet because the United States government in some way, shape or form has probably assassinated many other Central and South American dictators who don't do what they want over the course of years.
		And so if you can buy Bitcoin and get freedom from the IMF and the World Bank and all the things that they force you to do...
		That's a really, really powerful thing.
		So I can't believe there has been not one other country who has followed his lead to this.
		El Salvador has gotten, it's a lot of credit for Tough on Crime.
		This was when I met him.
		Tough on Crime, clean, technology, support.
		Forward thinking, they want new business entrepreneurs and hard money in Bitcoin.
		That was the blueprint executed to a T. Nobody's talking about the IMF stuff though.
		And the reason I think it's relevant to America is that's a country that climbed out of debt.
		And that's what Trump's talking about is we've got deficits.
		How can we make progress?
		But you've watched a country that was in a perpetual indebted relationship that was killing them and suffocating them like we're living through in America that was able to climb out of it through Bitcoin.
		And I don't know why no one is drawing that narrative to America.
		We're obviously a larger scale, but why can't we do the same?
		Well, Trump loves winners, right?
		And Bukele is becoming a very public winner.
		Totally.
		He's totally transformed the economic standing of El Salvador.
		He's brought all this new technology investment into El Salvador, right?
		They're making it a very open country for people who want to come and build.
		They're making it hope, right?
		They're making it hope for the world.
		And he's going to become a very big marketing tool for the rest of the world, right?
		You can't ignore that type of success because they were – what were they, murder capital of the world before he started down this?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		One of them.
unidentified		One of them.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Depending on the metric you use, there's more murders in Venezuela but not per capita.
unidentified		Honduras is the highest per capita and El Salvador was like – And then to Jack's point, or I can't remember who made the point, but when someone wants to now go home to El Salvador from wherever they're at, that's a big shift because people were only leaving and they were trying to come to the United States and send money back.
		And that money was getting captured by Western Union on the way in the door.
		They were bleeding all that value out, wasn't getting home to where they thought it was going to be.
		Just that simple shift of saying, we're going to embrace Bitcoin, we're not going to attack Bitcoin, and we're going to support the growth of Bitcoin within our borders, has been such a huge transformation for that country that I don't think it's going to be able to be ignored.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I mean, this is historic dream-come-true-level stuff.
		Look at this video.
		This is just the celebration they're doing.
		The things they've constructed.
		The crime reduction.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Wow.
		That's incredible.
		Yeah, you know the other thing that...
		We haven't brought up yet in this conversation.
		I was talking to my daughter about it on the way over here, but high time preference versus low time preference behavior.
		And when you really get into Bitcoin, you start going deep down the rabbit hole.
		I feel like it changes the way you think about a lot of things.
		So in a high time preference country where your money's inflating at insane rates, so what was Argentina, but they're turning that around.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Yes, no debt anymore.
unidentified		No debt.
		Totally crazy.
		Wow.
		If you get your paycheck on Friday and by the next Friday your money is devalued, there's absolutely no point in saving.
		Because why would you ever plan for the future?
		Because your money is essentially going to go to zero, so there's no use in trying to save and plan for the future.
		So you have this insanely high time preference behavior, and that's really bad, right?
		And if you have money which is good and strong and solid, you're going to have low time preference behavior, which means I know the money I earned today in 2024 is going to be worth, you know...
		As much or more 10 years down the road.
		And so I can plan for my future.
		I can save.
		It makes sense.
		And so it kind of like flips the way you think about things if you have good hard money.
		money.
		Well, when you can't save dollars, when you go back to money 101, just monetary theory, and money is the market good that you don't consume and you need to save it.
		The intention of money is to be able to place a premium on tomorrow.
		It's our ability to value the future.
		And so there's a direct correlation to the harder the money, the better human flourishing in society because we're able to coordinate and place a premium on tomorrow.
		And so that's fundamentally, And that's what Ben's talking about is low/high time preference.
		If your money's shit, then tomorrow's shit.
		If your money's hard and good, then tomorrow could be great.
		And your ability to have confidence in that—because everyone's preference is now.
		You want $10 million now or $10 million in 10 years?
		Well, I'll take it now.
		But our ability to place premiums on tomorrow and the future and not go to the beach every day and not spend everything we have right now on bottle service and Louboutin bags—seriously, I mean, that's what you're talking about, 100%.
		100%.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		So let me pull this up real quick.
		This is a story from 2021. Treasure Hunter finds lost box of $46,000 cash in house attic.
		Boy, is he happy.
		Look at that smile on his face.
		He found $46,000.
		You see, back in the 1960s, his family bought the house.
		Someone who lived there in the 1950s had stored that $46,000 in cash under the floorboards in the attic to keep it safe.
		And this is the sad reality of the United States and the US dollar.
		You see how happy he is?
		How much happier do you think he would be if he found half a million dollars in the attic?
		If that was stored as gold or, you know, they don't have Bitcoin back in 1950. But if it was stored in something of true value, not a US dollar, it's lost 90, around 90% of its value.
		This guy's so excited to find $46,000 and the government's laughing all the way to the bank.
unidentified		Yep.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Your buying power is gone.
		You could have bought several houses.
		I mean, houses back then were relatively cheap.
		That's going to buy you two houses today.
		$46,000 could have bought you three or four or more.
		Imagine if they bought real estate and handed it down to their kids.
unidentified		We talk about the high time preference and low time preference behavior.
		And you said people think of the dollar as the stable thing.
		And I think maybe they do, like if they were speaking.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that was Ben.
unidentified		Oh, I thought you...
unidentified		Maybe both of you.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I said he was right.
unidentified		That's how I think of it.
		And, but I think subconsciously or inherently they almost know because every friend I have, I've only convinced a few to buy Bitcoin.
		They're stubborn.
		It's unfortunate.
		But every friend I have who makes any kind of money knows that they don't hold cash in the bank.
		It's not like they just get their money and they hold their money.
		And if money was good and money was hard, I don't have to have a second job.
		I can just get my money, I save it, and then 10 years it's worth the same amount and I can spend it.
		But every single friend I know has to say, oh, do I want to invest in extra real estate?
		Or do I want to invest in the stock market?
		Or where do I invest my money?
		Because they know subconsciously that they have to invest in something in order for their money to keep up with inflation so it doesn't go away.
		And that's another one where it's like, I wish we didn't have to do that.
		I wish we just had good money and we didn't have to worry about it devaluing.
		Yeah.
		Debasing the currency is probably the cruelest thing you can do to society.
		And you can – what human-level KPI do you care about to measure how society is doing?
		Obesity rates going up, cancer rates going up, divorce rates going up, child per woman crashing.
		At one point, life expectancy was crashing.
		Recently, like 2022, I haven't gotten an updated statistic.
		But if you create a society where, to Ben's point, you're supposed to be a doctor, you're supposed to be an engineer, not 50% doctor, 50% expert on central bank, Japanese monetary policy, and your Robin Hood account.
		Seriously, and people are getting unhealthy because they're compromising on the quality of their food because they can't afford it.
		You're eating seed oils.
		You're eating trash, right?
		And so it's the worst thing you can do to a civilization is you're basically sucking the life out of it by sucking the purchasing power, the monetary good, out of the people.
		It's evil.
		And you're training them to be borrowers, to go deeper down that hole, right?
		People are going into deep debt to fund the lifestyle because the money's not worth it.
		They can't get ahead.
		They can't save.
		They can't do anything.
		No, but they trap you into the student loans.
		Listen, don't judge me.
		I invested in a company and not Bitcoin.
		It wasn't that much money.
		But one of my friends who works at a bank said, hey, there's this young kid and we can't give him a loan.
		Maybe you should talk to him.
		And this kid, he wanted a $40,000 loan.
		I didn't invest all of the $40,000, but he wanted a $40,000 loan for his ketchup business.
		He already had POs for, shout out ketchup, please.
		It's really great.
		It's healthier than regular ketchup also.
		He already had purchase orders from Hy-Vee.
		He had a lot of everything good.
		They would give him $200,000 in student loans, but they wouldn't give him a $40,000 business loan.
		It's like, holy shit, but he's already got revenue.
		He's already got purchase orders.
		And you guys won't give him $40,000, but you'll give him $200,000 in student debt?
		That's brainwashing right now.
		You'll give him the one he's saddled with forever.
		Forever.
		You can't get rid of it.
		The one you can never discharge.
		It's totally insane.
		They're willing to give you that one.
		And that is, to Jack's point, that's cruel, right?
		Because you're putting people in a deficit position when they're starting out their lives.
		I don't think people understand how big of an advantage it is to launch your life without debt.
		Yes.
		Right?
		It puts you in such a place of strength where you can actually spend the time to think about what are the assets I should be owning to continue my success forward.
		How do I build on the advantage I had early in life?
		But most people don't have that advantage.
		Because they're brainwashed to go to college.
	Because that's the model.
	That's what their parents did.
	That's what they see on TV. The credit card companies, well, you can get a bunch of points if you get a credit card with us, even if you don't really qualify to be able to pay it back.
	Again, I think it's just this divorce from reality where society, we get so abstracted away from what's real.
	On what planet, in first principle thinking, did you think you were going to take out a $200,000 loan to get a liberal arts degree?
	No, I'm being serious.
	The reality is, if things that you need in your life are getting 10% more expensive year over year, you have to be getting an 11% raise every single year or you're working backwards.
	What's working backwards?
	Draw the picture for me, Jack.
	Okay.
	That means I'm not eating ribeyes.
	I'm eating McDonald's.
	That means I'm not having five kids.
	I'm maybe having one.
	That means I'm not buying a house.
	I'm renting an apartment.
	That means...
	When you print money, assets inflate, right?
	Bitcoin, housing.
	So those that own the assets, the boomer class, has all the money, all the housing.
	Who do you think is going to compete better in a housing bid war?
	The guy that's worked 50 years at 60 years old or the guy that's worked five months at a fresh college grad?
	So you've got serious civil unrest, mentally ill and physically ill population of the youth.
	They're like now don't know what gender they are.
	Sick, sick kids that don't own assets that are in perpetual debt that are compromising on their profession and their quality of life because they're running a rat race.
	They're running on a treadmill.
	They can't make any real progress.
	And then you get the civil unrest where everyone's mad at each other.
	No one can disagree.
	It's the most un-American America has ever felt.
	And I do think that, you know, I think if we fix the money, fix the world is a common saying in Bitcoin.
	I think if we can fix the money, we can solve at least half of the biggest problems we face today.
	I fundamentally believe that.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I'm sorry, just finish your point.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I don't want to interrupt you.
unidentified		I was going to say, look at the depression and anxiety rates that have started to pop up in the last decade or two, right?
		I mean, when people feel hopeless, and that's the position a lot of people are finding themselves in, they're starting to feel hopeless like there's no way out.
		That's when you're going to start seeing the massive rise in that.
		And so the more education that can get out there to let people know that you have an alternative now, you don't have to be stuck in that system, that's a huge net positive for the world.
		And I do think that the youth, I'm starting to see them get really involved, right?
		And I think a lot of them are probably following Jack because he's electric.
		But that education is going to pay dividends for their entire life.
		If they learn it early.
		Most people wait till it's way too late and they're under the $200,000 of student loan debt and they have to be in a job that they hate because they have no other alternative.
		They have to have the paycheck.
		They're starting to see a way out and I think getting that message out is one of the most important things we can do.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		So the International Monetary Fund, the SWIFT payment system, right?
		The weapon that is used by...
		Petrodollar, Western, NATO, etc.
		You know, we're going to sanction you.
		We're going to cut you off from the credit card transactions and things like this.
		So I'm jumping back because I pulled up the wiki on El Salvador, which I find absolutely fascinating.
		There's a section on presidency of Naib Bukele.
		It's fascinating to read this because if you're a layman who pulls up Wikipedia, I feel bad for you because Wikipedia is trash.
		But this is what a lot of people are turning to, and I think it proves the point of the machine being outraged, upset.
		It says in January of 2022, the IMF urged El Salvador to reverse its decision to make cryptocurrency legal tender.
		Bitcoin had rapidly lost about half its value, meaning economic difficulties.
		And as of May 2022, the government bonds trading at 40 percent of their original value.
		The prospect of looming sovereign default.
		McKellie announced back in January 2022 plans to build Bitcoin City at the base of a volcano in El Salvador.
		Nowhere do they write here that Bitcoin has exploded in value and he's made a massive gain.
		They do go on to mention near the bottom.
		What's fascinating is it then goes on to say his fight against criminal gangs made it some of the highest incarceration rates in the world with crackdowns resulting in hundreds of deaths.
		And international human rights organizations declaring it the worst abuse of human rights since the Civil War. ...
		And then it says he won the election with 83% in 2024.
		Yep.
		Because they're not telling you the full picture that Bitcoin exploded.
		It's not just about Bitcoin.
		It's about real transformation, the reduction in crime, becoming one of the safest countries in the world now, the safest in Central America.
		I think safer than America now and extremely wealthy.
		Now, don't get me wrong.
		El Salvador's GDP per capita is much lower than the United States.
		I mean, you'd be crazy to think that it wasn't the case.
		But it's jumped up substantially.
		$5,607 GDP per capita, 108th in the world.
		It is rapidly improved as a nation.
		The machine, like the IMF, is the debt machine.
		So as you're talking about getting young kids in student loan debt, the way this machine works is they go to your developing nation and say, if you want a McDonald's and you want to be wealthy, take a loan from us, and they know that loan will never be paid back.
unidentified		They put these insane terms on it.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		You'll be in debt forever as a nation, and they're telling you to sign your sovereignty over to us.
unidentified		Yes.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		And the people who are in these countries are like, well, you know, I'll be rich.
unidentified		And then they default on it and then they say, well, you know, give us some of your mineral rights or something like that.
		And then they default on it again and they say, give us some more.
		And then, you know, and then one guy comes in and says, we don't want to do this anymore.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		And then there's an invasion because he had weapons of mass destruction.
unidentified		I know I'm repeating myself, but this reminds me of the Beyond Beef burger to the ribeye.
		It's a reversion.
		Do you ever eat one of those?
		I've never eaten one.
		No, no.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		It doesn't have like a burger.
		I mean, it's salty food.
		I don't know if this, you know.
unidentified		It's just, it's not real.
		Like, when I went to El Salvador and I worked with the government on the Bitcoin stuff, I was so excited.
		I was like, guys, you won't get it.
		They're focused on clean streets, no crime, innovation, growth, Bitcoin, and the media crushed me for it.
		There's, you know, I was getting thrashed, crushed.
		The IMF reached out to me.
		I presented to the IMF, World Bank IMF, on my ass.
		And it was, again, at the time when I was sitting as a kid in my mid-20s, I was like, what?
		This doesn't make any sense to me.
		What's wrong with no crime?
		What's wrong with being clean?
		Like, it just wasn't computing in my brain.
		But now, outside of, I guess, this Wikipedia page, B. Kelly's a rock star, right?
		Elon Musk is like, man, this guy's a great leader.
		And I do—I feel inspired.
		I have—there's a lot of optimism where I think the world is like— Wait a second.
		No Beyond Beef Burger, ribeye.
		And that example abstracted into wherever.
		El Salvador for me is living through that as well.
		Well, I mean, to what you're saying is, and I think this is probably what won Trump the election the first time, and then this election probably more, is that people are just so sick of being lied to, and we know we're being lied to in a lot of cases.
		And that goes into, like, the contillion effect, and who's ever closest to the money printer is the one that's benefiting the most from the money printer.
		And then the government has co-opted all these organizations, media and otherwise, pharmaceutical, etc., to kind of, like, push this narrative.
		And regular people can see we're being lied to, and we didn't like it.
		So, you know, that was kind of this uprising that you're talking about.
		Yeah, lies don't scale, right?
		Like, Mother Nature's undefeated with time.
		I think one thing that we can count on, though, is that Trump is a legacy guy, right?
		One, he loves winners.
		And you're seeing a guy like Bukele out there whose approval rating just continues to rocket through the roof.
		And they've brought themselves into the serious position of independence for their own nation.
		And I think that Trump...
		Looks at the United States and he can kind of view this as his opportunity to set us on a new trajectory where we've got a new path and he can be the guy that made that change.
		And I think he's right.
		I think he can be the guy to make that change.
		And it is a bold move to do.
		And the strategic reserve is one of the steps along the way.
		But when you look at all the former reserve assets of the world, they all fell at some point.
		Yes.
		So the question becomes, when you are the reserve asset of the world, is are you going to take the steps to prevent that from happening?
		Are you going to fight and pretend that this decentralized asset isn't happening in the world?
		Because it's not just a U.S. thing.
		You can't just shut it down in the U.S. and it goes away.
		That's not real.
		It doesn't go away.
		So do you look at that and do you say, maybe there's an opportunity for us to integrate with this, and maybe the U.S. dollar then still continues to be the transactional currency across the globe, and it might even strengthen its position, but we're going to start backing ourselves with the new emerging assets that's decentralized from all countries, but we're going to start backing ourselves with the new emerging And we're going to participate in that too.
		And I think he's got a chance to change the course of history.
		I mean, that's probably Trump's biggest challenge going into this term is, The debt is so insane.
		And we're about to go into this debt spiral where interest on debt payments I think this year is $1.3 trillion or $1.4 trillion.
		I mean, if it gets much worse, there's no coming out of it.
		Like, it's going to go to zero eventually.
		We're reaching the bad part of escape velocity, right?
		It's almost there.
		It's almost there.
		Oh, yeah.
		Oh, gee.
		Oh, no.
		Not there.
		Well, I think they said it was $360 billion in the last two months only of debt added to the— Well, look at the U.S. federal debt-to-GDP ratio.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		In the 1960s, it was 52. In 1980, it was 34. In 2000, it was 54. Today, it's 123 percent.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		We are generating more debt than actual product.
unidentified		Yes.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		That's insane.
unidentified		Yeah.
		So, I mean, this is literally his biggest challenge to figure out.
		And, you know, I know Elon and Vivek are going to do the Doge, and hopefully that works.
		They've been watching what's been happening.
		Nah, that doesn't stand a chance.
		You don't think so?
		There's not enough to cut.
		All the expenses are things like medical, social security, defense spending.
		You could fire everyone at the government.
		It's a rounding error of our expenditures.
		I don't think that that's going to make a real dent.
		Really?
		I mean, just mathematically, there's not enough.
		Unless they're going to remove our ability to defend ourselves, Social Security's out the window.
		Well, Social Security, you said the dollars of Ponzi.
		Social Security is like the biggest Ponzi.
		Well, it's all Ponzi.
		I think this debt to GDP is a great way for people to understand why America should own Bitcoin because what does debt to GDP tell you?
		It's how much have we borrowed from our future versus the growth that we're producing to pay it back.
		Okay, so what's America missing?
		Growth.
		Real growth.
		And when I say things like child per woman is down, just so everyone knows, you can't print 18 year olds.
		So if we're not producing enough humans, we can't be growing the economy.
		If the amount of humans coming out of vaginas is going down, we're in serious trouble.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm serious with debt to GDP. And so how do you- They're gonna invite 60 million non-citizens to flood the country at the southern border.
unidentified		100% and that causes problems.
		So how do you buy growth?
		Well, what if I told you there was a thing that on average is growing 65% year over year over the last 10 years.
		It's the best performing thing in the history of mankind and you can just buy it off the shelf.
		It's like, oh, I'll take a double cheeseburger, Coke Zero.
		Oh, and this thing that's growing so fast that if we lean into it, we could pay off our debt in the next 25 years.
		That's why the government would be interested.
		For those at home, it's like pretty simple.
		We have a lot of debt.
		We have no growth.
		How do you buy growth?
		Yeah, immigrants, whatever, but like you just buy it.
		Buy Bitcoin.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		What do you guys – so we had this story break from Google just a couple days ago.
		Willow, the state-of-the-art quantum chip that they say was able to handle a benchmark computation that would take 10 septillion years.
		It handled it in less than five minutes.
		And the concern is with the rapid development of quantum computing, encryption as we know it will be completely dismantled.
		So to simplify for everybody, the way Bitcoin works is – There's a private and public key.
		It's basically you get access to a thing and then you have an encrypted password that can't be broken that ensures only you have access to those specific Bitcoin or fractions of.
		A quantum computer can basically find the password instantly and then unravel the whole thing, get access to anybody's Bitcoin, just take it all.
		What's going to stop that from happening?
unidentified		Well, for the public, this – first of all, this is not nearly strong enough to make a dent in Bitcoin.
		And for the general public as well, cryptography and using public-private key pairs, that's what runs the internet.
		That's what secures your bank account.
		That's what runs the universe and the world.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Quantum computing destroys the world.
unidentified		Right.
		But from an engineering standpoint, before being a CEO in a suit, I was an engineer.
		That was my initial contributions to Bitcoin.
		And the technical community is aware of this.
		And there's going to be a transition probably over the next decade or so onto different cryptographic curves.
		So this will be addressed and solved.
		This story came out and everyone was like, oh, is Bitcoin going to go zero?
		No, absolutely.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		They say that every time there's a breakthrough in crypto.
unidentified		Not a risk at all.
		And it's a known technical barrier that everyone in the world, not just Bitcoin.
		I mean the first thing is that all the money in your Chase account would disappear before people started attacking Bitcoin.
		So not a concern.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		It is pretty wild.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		The article says it lends credence to the notion that quantum computation occurs in many parallel universes in line with the idea that we live in a multiverse.
unidentified		Oh.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		That's like the craziest thing you could write, but, you know, I don't know.
unidentified		I'm not a quantum computer guy, so whatever.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Or a physicist.
unidentified		I also think that people need to recognize that quantum and classical technology systems don't necessarily mesh well together, right?
		So people think that quantum is just like a standard computer, but super powerful.
		But I think this is a good time to reference that Bitcoin is technology, which for the first time we have a money that can adapt and get better.
		Like what I think fascinating point is Bitcoin is going to get better for as long as I'm alive and then long after I'm dead.
		Gold, like once gold stopped working, it's a rock.
		But Bitcoin, we can improve it, right?
		And that's what I don't think.
		Bitcoin can evolve, which is totally different than any other commodity you've ever owned, right?
		Like corn.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		So let's go the other direction on this one.
		Let's go full conspiracy.
		Do you guys know the globalist conspiracy theory about Bitcoin?
		I'd imagine.
unidentified		Uh-oh.
unidentified		The CIA started it or what?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		So Satoshi Nakamoto literally translates to what?
		Intelligence Central Hub or something?
		Yeah.
unidentified		Hmm.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		So it was a viral meme that...
		Let me see if I can pull it up.
		I tweeted it.
		And I can...
		let's see if I can find it.
		What do we have?
		The CIA invented Bitcoin.
		Here we go.
unidentified		Yes, I've heard that one.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		So what does Satoshi mean in Japanese?
		For those that don't know, Satoshi Nakamoto is the inventor of Bitcoin.
		In Japanese, Satoshi means wise or intelligent.
		What does Nakamoto mean?
		Naka means middle or center and moto means origin or base. So it means intelligence, center, base.
		Central origin or root of the center.
		And then, of course, we flip the names, Satoshi Nakamoto.
		We would say that Nakamoto Satoshi in the United States, but they go by last name first.
		So that would mean Central Origin of Intelligence.
		The Central Intelligence Agency.
		Something like that.
		So here's the idea.
		In the late 2000s, you had this conversation about the Amero.
		People were saying, look, Europe is doing the euro.
		They're creating a centralized currency for the entire bloc.
		They want to create one in the United States that U.S., Canada, and Mexico would all use, the Amero.
		It never happened.
		They were leaked images claiming this was what it was going to look like, and it would cause problems for the U.S. because we're the top.
		And so it's going to pull us down and lift them up.
		Never happened.
		You had a bunch of people who are relatively pro-America, anti-government, conspiracy theorists, etc.
		So the idea goes, you're the IMF or the Davos group or whatever, and you're sitting there being like, these people do not – they're not going to let us just do this.
		They're going to protest.
		There's going to be revolt.
		It's going to be messy.
		How do we trick them into doing it?
		And so they create a publicly trackable – Easily transferable system of value, Bitcoin.
		Nobody really knows who made it.
		They then cede it to the anti-government type saying, this gets you out of the system.
		Now you're outside of the government and who adopts it?
		A bunch of libertarian weirdos who are buying drugs.
unidentified		Anarcho-capitalists.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Anarcho-capitalists.
		Then you've got the anti-government types proselytizing for your new global currency and becoming wealthy doing it.
		And so then everyone wants to start adopting it.
		But what do you end up with?
		Any standard algorithm, moderately weak AI, can track the entire ledger of Bitcoin and figure out who you are, what you're buying, and where that money is going.
		So with the public ledger, Bitcoin itself is a massive surveillance network of everything you'd purchase.
		Cash, you can buy a lot of things in cash and transfer that value the government can't track.
		And so as the conspiracy goes to simplify, powerful international interests wanted to create a global currency or global trade of value to replace the petrodollar.
		They needed to get – in order to get ubiquity or to get adoption, you have to give it to your – make your opponents believe it's their path to victory and play the heel.
		All of these anarcho-capitalists adopt it.
		It becomes mainstream.
		And now, a simple example is when, I think it was Weave, Andrew Anheimer fled the country in the United States and went to Ukraine and was posting on, like, Stormfront or Daily Storm or whatever the website was.
		Journalists knew he had received $1 million in Bitcoin because the public ledger tracks where everything is going.
		A computer can do it way better.
		Now they can simply ask chat GPT if it's plugged in, show me the entire transaction history of John Smith, and it'll show everything they've ever done in Bitcoin.
		And then it can map out probably what expects them to buy.
		So what do you guys think?
unidentified		I think there are ways to use Bitcoin privately.
		I've done it.
		Use the Lightning Network super private.
		It's advanced.
		It's not easy.
		It's not for everyone.
		But the notion that Bitcoin was designed to trace and track everybody, I say it here first.
		Bullshit.
		Not true at all technically.
		I think the most important point here is it doesn't matter who created it.
		Like, I'm still going to store my time, energy, effort, labor, work, and future in it because— Because it's better.
		What?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Because it's better.
unidentified		Like, if someone were to say, that guy created it, but he committed a crime to—whatever.
		Shake his hand.
		Thank you.
		I appreciate it.
		And whatever your morals and opinions and principles are, I don't give a shit.
		It doesn't matter.
		So the technology stands on its own.
		It can compete against anything.
		It's the best thing to own, period, for yourself.
		And so it just doesn't matter.
		It still is permissionless, and they still can't confiscate it.
		So you still have those things.
		And you think if, like, the CIA made it, they have some backdoor to confiscate it, and that hasn't happened in 15 years.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't think it would undermine it.
		If they're trying to build something and get it mass adoption, they wouldn't undermine themselves, even if they were.
		So it certainly does create some kind of freeing principle, for sure.
		It is traceable.
		Like, a computer can't track addresses and see where the coins are going.
unidentified		Yeah, there's ways to use it that imply certain things.
		But listen, I mean, we don't ask, what was the intent of the car?
		Was it to drive over and hit a chick in the head?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Who cares?
unidentified		I use it for what I need to use it for now.
		It's a tool.
		So it doesn't matter.
		And by the way, Ben, the code's open source.
		So if there is a backdoor...
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
unidentified		Humanity hasn't found it.
		And so if you are short Bitcoin because you think it's compromised, you are short humanity.
		The story of humanity is engineering a better world.
		So if you believe in that, then there's nothing to worry about.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		So Satoshi Nakamoto has, what, one million Bitcoin?
unidentified		1.1, I think.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		1.1?
unidentified		In theory.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		It's never moved.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		It's presumed to be that these original allotment or whatever is Satoshi's because it's never moved or whatever.
unidentified		Yes.
		Do you guys think we will ever find out— It's not an initial allotment like some of these ICOs where they give— Right, right.
		You know, like the Hawk Tua coin where they gave people a bunch of coins.
		There was zero at the beginning, and that wallet mined in order to earn those coins.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
unidentified		Yes.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		So do you think we're ever going to find out who it actually was?
unidentified		I say no at this point.
		No.
		I don't.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I think whoever it actually is is probably like, I don't want to die.
		It's already rich.
		Anybody who's done something like this, I would imagine Satoshi probably had other coins as well that weren't as easily noticeable and doesn't need to move 1.1 million.
		But also, I'll just put it this way, if it were me...
		I wouldn't just have 1.1 million.
		There'd probably be smaller bits and pieces there.
		I would have held on to other wallets, probably have made money elsewhere.
		Someone smart enough to do this with this vision probably is already successful and wealthy in other ways.
		But at this point, if you were to make a move on those coins, they'd find you and your life would be in danger.
		Everyone in the world is going to be coming at you.
		So it's funny when these guys come out and go, I'm Satoshi.
		It's like, no, you're not.
unidentified		Well, first of all, Satoshi leaving, and we can comfortably say now he, based on emails that have been shown in court, he leaving is the best thing that's ever happened in the project, in my opinion.
		Tremendously important to its independence.
		Also...
		Setting the tone for the level of humility and lack of ego.
		I think I always say Bitcoin's an ego test.
		And those that value and prioritize ego have the toughest time adopting it.
		What type of man?
		You don't want to be on the time cover.
		You don't want to get the hottest chicks at the dance.
		You don't want to have the biggest yacht.
		No, seriously, what a humanitarian act to say this is my gift.
		To our species and walk away, that is the most profound act of a human.
		You create the best money ever, and money is something human beings use on it every single day.
		I've never, and that set the tone, I think, for the level of humility.
		When you adopt this thing, you're not bigger than this thing.
		You're one with this thing.
		It's equal rights.
		It's rules with no rulers.
		And I do think those that think they're late to Bitcoin is ego.
		Late to who?
		Oh, you're comparing yourself to your friend.
		You're comparing yourself to your colleague, to your college roommate.
		It's about ego and he set that tone by saying this isn't about me.
		I'm walking away for the importance of what good money means to the world.
		I've never – like draw me a comparison in human history that has done such an act.
		I don't know of anything remotely close.
		It's the most selfless thing that somebody could do to invent something and to give up the control, right?
		Once Satoshi walked away, they released Bitcoin to the world.
		And the world gets to now decide what to do with Bitcoin.
		It created this really powerful network, this monetary network.
		And now that it's out there and it's open for everybody, everyone's getting to choose how they're going to use that and integrate that into their life.
		And the lack of ego to release something like that is important.
		But I do think to the conspiracy points here, you're going to get a lot of that from people who either don't understand it or are incentivized for it not to succeed.
		There's going to be all these stories that come up.
		You have to try to go to the source, which is often very hard to track.
		You never really know what the source is.
		But when you've got people like Jack and you've got the core developers who have been diving through this code now for a decade and a half, looking for ways to upgrade it, looking for ways to make sure that this stays the strongest store of value on the planet, You can draw some comfort for yourself that people are really invested in making sure that this stays the best solution.
		The best part is that Bitcoin is one of the only truly free markets in the world to this day where there's not a central party or central government that's picking the winner.
		And so I tell you what, if you guys want to read New York Times headlines and read Wikipedia and make your decisions, I'll do the hard work.
		I'll educate myself.
		I'll buy Bitcoin and I get rewarded for that.
		I get bigger houses.
		I get nicer travel.
		So you guys make decisions you want, but it's a free market.
		You're going to pay the consequences.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Let me ask you guys, what do you think about Ethereum?
unidentified		Garbage, bullshit, trash.
		I don't think that negatively, but I would say that this is Jack's living.
		He spends his life in Bitcoin and crypto.
		This is not my living.
		And so I don't know if I would call myself a Bitcoin maximalist exactly, but at this point in my life, it's like, I'm going to pay attention to Bitcoin and that's it.
		I'm sure maybe someone else will create some good projects at some point in time.
		But then you look at the last seven years, how many scams have there been?
		There have been just like, it's just scam, scam, scam, scam, scam.
		my life to do research into what this project is and who's backing it, I'm just kinda gonna avoid it. - Well, just look at the way the policies change on Ethereum, right?
		If something's not set, like Bitcoin's set, when the people come out and say, "Well, how do we know there's only gonna be 21 million?" You go, "Well, 'cause there's like five lines of code that tell you Ethereum changes its monetary policy." - I'll give you a better answer.
		I think Bitcoin's the only money in cryptocurrencies.
		It's the only thing that's built to be money, which we've talked extensively about what that is, why you'd hold it.
		I think everything else is technologies.
		They're talking about, we're going to distribute this, decentralize that.
		But what is that?
		It's not where I store my time energy.
		People say, well, Ethereum has utility.
		I'll tell you, the most successful utility token in human history is the US dollar.
		It's got about 5 billion daily active users.
		Really useful.
		There's a lot of utility in it.
		Does anyone want to hold it for the long term?
		We've spent this whole podcast saying no.
		So why would I hold these things?
		How much do I have to trust the people that created it?
		How do they make decisions?
		What's it useful for?
		How am I supposed to value it?
		Guys, I'm telling you, I've been in this space for 12 years.
		None of those questions have ever been answered.
		The value accrual has been by...
		Drawing a false comparison to Bitcoin and rent-seeking off of this trend that Bitcoin and Satoshi created.
		So that's why my initial reaction is bullshit.
		Because there's a little bit of anger there.
		You guys are riding the coattails of this technology with no clear value creation whatsoever.
		You're clearly not money.
		And that goes for any of these coins outside Bitcoin.
		I've never found one.
		And the whole utility narrative, well, the dollar is useful.
		I don't want to hold that either.
		So I just don't get it.
		You have to be able to extrapolate how this is going to benefit you in your real life.
		If you can't tell people that, it's very tough for someone to say this thing should be immensely valuable.
		And I think that's what happens in a lot of the broader crypto ecosystem.
		The value that it seems to hold to a lot of people, and I'm not just talking Ethereum, I'm talking all the other ones, because I went down that rabbit hole too, right?
		It's almost like a rite of passage when you first find these things.
		You've got to buy some shit coins.
		You've got to lose your money.
		You've got to go screw up big time, right?
		And so I got in earlier, and you see all these people making all these money on all these dog coins, and you're like, wow, people are really valuing these.
		But they're not.
		They're speculating on these, right?
		And it's a way to prey on people that don't understand or that are desperate.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I'm up $2,000 on Doge.
unidentified		Well, there you go.
		See?
		We got at least one winner in the room.
		But eventually, over time, your focus narrows and you go, which one of these can I really define a value proposition in my own life?
		What problem is it solving for me?
		So the rest of them are kind of like gambling.
		If you want to go gamble, fine.
		So if one of my friends, they come to me, one of them said $100,000 on Doge.
		Was it Doge last week or something?
		I don't know.
		What are you doing?
		No!
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Look, you got to hawk to him, man.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I'm thinking about buying the dip.
unidentified		Spit on that thing.
		It's coming back.
		So we haven't spoken about what's the opportunity size of Bitcoin.
		So there's about $900 trillion worth of stuff in the world that people own.
		And if we're talking about money in that what you want to save and persist and exchange later for the goods and services you need, about half of that is people use as money.
		But people are using housing as money, equities as money, right?
		But you can safely estimate the opportunity for Bitcoin is about $450 trillion worth of opportunity size because that's the amount of wealth in the world today that people are just trying to save.
		Like people are always like, what's the use case for Bitcoin?
		I can't buy pizza.
		The use case is keeping your money.
		How about that?
		Did you ever need to do that?
		Is working hard, earning something, and being able to fucking keep it.
		Is that a use case?
		So that's how big it is.
		When people say, oh, this technology is going to distribute dental, how big is that use case?
		A hundred million dollar opportunity set at best?
		When they say, what's the use case?
		You realize they don't understand what is money.
		100%.
		It's money.
		It's the best money that humans have ever created.
		And 8 billion people use money every single day.
		But if Solana is like a really valuable technology, whatever, I actually don't even follow these shitcoins enough, but it's like...
		Amazon's valuable technology.
		We'd all agree at the table.
		Okay, what's the opportunity that, what's it, $2 trillion company, $1 trillion company, something like that, right?
		So Solana's ceiling is like, oh man, if they could be as successful as Amazon, which in your life, get the hell out of here, but let's just assume.
		But if Bitcoin is successful, it's 500 times of an opportunity bigger for the world.
		So I think these things are an utter and complete distraction.
		Sorry, rant over.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I'm just like, I don't even know how to find the Hawk Tua coin, to be honest, because there's like 87. That was such a scam.
unidentified		Actually, one of my friends, shout out John Kim, he said...
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Can you pull this up?
		Look at this.
		It's like, when you go to search for Hawk Tua, there's like a bunch of fake ones.
unidentified		Yeah.
		Well, he said in the last cycle, because there's all this bullshit that always comes up, and he said, you know, the unfortunate thing is these high-time preference behaviors is really smart kids coming out of college realize they can come create some type of shit blockchain project and then make $100 million overnight and cash out.
		And that's the easiest way to make a whole bunch of money.
		And so you have all these people doing all these bullshit coins.
		And so if you watched for the last seven years, you see just...
		Scam after scam after scam.
		It's like, I'm just going to stay away from all of that.
		If you go onto YouTube, you can watch people doing it live.
		I saw a video the other day of some 12-year-old kid launching some coin on Solana and he rug-pulled it live.
		It took like 30 or 40 grand.
		Are you kidding me?
		Just like that.
		Are we taking that 12-year-old to jail?
		The positive spin on this, though, is just how beautiful free markets are.
		Oh, it's great.
		You can get on podcasts, and I truly try and educate and really distill what is money.
		And I tell you guys, Ethereum's not something I'd want my kids to ever inherit.
		But if you're dumb enough to buy Haktua coin, maybe you didn't need the value anyway.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		It's artificial selection, right?
unidentified		Yeah, 100%.
		It is.
		And I think in the corporate world now, we're seeing a big shift in this as well, because you've got a company like MicroStrategy.
		Well, hold on.
		Zoom back out there.
		That was Tim buying the dip.
		He told us he was going to do that.
		That's Tim!
		He's the only guy on earth up on Hawk to a coin.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Hawk to a coin.
		You know what, man?
		It is sad that people are getting the rug pulled out from him on these things.
		But Hawk to a coin?
		You really gotta ask yourself what you're buying.
		You know what this reminds me of?
		You guys remember the Beanie Baby craze in the late 90s?
unidentified		Yeah, of course.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Everybody was like, Beanie Babies are being discontinued.
		There's Beanie Babies at every store I go to.
		They're worthless.
		But people were buying tons of them.
		It's like...
		What are you buying?
unidentified		Yeah.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		You know, is there utility in it?
		And so the obvious thing with Bitcoin is that very simply, very early on, the use cases I saw were tremendous.
		You could it was easy to remit.
		It was easy to transfer money instantly.
		So when you're doing like an ACH transaction, a purchase with someone overseas, it's moderately complicated.
		Even inside the US, there's all these different clearinghouses.
		Bitcoin eliminated and streamlined everything.
		And that's just a base utility.
		Smart contracts are possible with Bitcoin, the same as with any other thing.
		So instantly it was like, oh, okay, you can see how the code works.
		You know how it works.
		You can take the choice to educate yourself.
		And it has a general utility.
		There's a reason to buy it.
		And that's why I'm saying, you know, back in 2011, I was like, maybe I should buy some of this.
		'Cause I'm not just gonna go on the internet and be like, Reddit karma, maybe I should buy that.
		I never considered why I would want Reddit karma.
		Reading about Bitcoin, the plans for it.
		And I was like, you know, maybe there's something here.
		My friend talked me out of it.
		Ended up picking up some seven months later and then sold it when I made like a couple hundred bucks off it, like, woo, I'm excited.
		What?
		What is this?
		What are you going to do with it?
unidentified		People inherently love to gamble.
		I mean, it's almost like to the point where it's a problem in America, how much people love to gamble.
		Well, why do you think there's a problem?
		High-time preference behavior.
		Desperation.
		Well, yeah, you force everyone to be a speculator if they can't save.
		Yeah.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
		But, I mean, it's a lot.
		We've got cultural problems.
		We've got boredom problems.
		We've got greed problems.
		It's all part of a cultural sickness in general.
unidentified		But it comes from that, like, instead of I'm just an engineer or I'm just a doctor, I'm an engineer and a speculator that has to earn an ability to make progress towards a home.
		And you become degeneracy where you're looking for a way to just stay afloat and just find a way to finance having a kid or finance a home or finance a vacation.
		And yeah, Hawk to a Coin is, I'll tell you what, Hawk to a Coin, no, in all seriousness, Hawk to a Coin's got more upside than just saving in dollars.
		Yeah.
		There's at least a chance you're going to win.
		He's not wrong.
		Look, look, look.
		The dollar's 100% down.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		It's rebounding.
unidentified		This is him right here.
		The dollar's never come back like that.
		Saving in dollars, you have a 0% chance winning saving in dollars.
		Not zero in Hawk Tua coin, right?
		That's where I think it comes from.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Seriously.
		I've got to be honest, though.
		At a tenth of a cent, I might consider buying some Hawk Tua because it's funny.
unidentified		Oh, my gosh.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Put like a dollar.
		Yeah, mean value.
		So I bought like 10 shares or whatever of DJT. And then when it went down, all of these leftists are like, haha, Tim lost all his money.
		I was like, bro, it's about like 100 bucks on DJT because it's funny.
		I wanted to own a piece of whatever that was because it made me laugh.
		I'll buy some Hawk 2 because it's funny.
unidentified		We're going to watch this price spike live because you're talking about it.
unidentified		So many degenerates.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I'm not going to tell anybody what to buy because that's always a mistake.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		People get mad at you.
unidentified		Yes.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		But look, right now, as of today, Hawk 2 is up decently.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Somebody just made some money.
unidentified		Well, you.
		We know it's you.
		You're doing the trades over there.
		I always tell people, instead of saying, you need to go buy Bitcoin, I mean, I will say you need to go buy Bitcoin, but I'll say, you also need to do your research first.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Take responsibility.
unidentified		Take some responsibility.
		Do some reading.
		And that's what this comes back to, is taking responsibility.
		Most people, what is money?
		And what is money in the bank?
		Most people don't realize, because we haven't had a ton of bank runs in America.
		We had a few last year.
		But, you know, the money in your bank account, if there is a bank run, it's not actually there.
		They lend it out at 20 to 1. Like, your money's not there.
		Whereas if you own Bitcoin and you hold it in cold storage, your money is your money.
		No one can touch it.
		It's not theirs.
		It's yours.
		But you have to take responsibility for that money.
		And a lot of people are, like, scared by that.
		They don't want the responsibility of actually holding their own money, which to me is really weird.
		Well, if you don't do the homework, you are a speculator.
		Yes, 100%.
		If you're just buying it and your only intent is, well, it's $100,000 today, hopefully it's $110,000 tomorrow, you don't really understand what you own.
		You haven't made it a core part of understanding the way that the world financial markets work and evolving your view on that.
		Once you evolve your view on that, I always tell people, Bitcoin's the most stable part of any investment that I have.
		I don't even think about it anymore.
		Yeah.
		Because I know how valuable it is.
		So why on earth would I be selling it?
		For what?
		I was just trying to pull up one of my favorite quotes.
		I'm convinced that any attempt to restore harmony in the world can only rest on the renewal of personal responsibility.
		Great quote.
		So great.
		And I think it's so true if you- I thought you were over there buying Hawk Tua coins.
		No.
		No, I would never.
		I would never.
		That's such a great quote, though.
		Yeah, no, I think, I mean, and reflect on where society is today.
		You know, people, their life is dependent on who's elected or who their boss is or get out of here.
		You take ownership over your life.
		But you have to take it personally.
		I mean, that's the biggest part is it can't be soundbites, even soundbites from, you know, us talking here, right?
		That can help pique your interest.
		But you really do have to do the work to understand it fundamentally yourself.
		That's what builds that conviction.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		There's a really funny meme where it's...
		You know the Wojak of the greasy guy with flies and a couple hair and it's supposed to be a leftist or whatever?
		There's a normal looking Chad guy being like, after doing my research...
		Saving up some money, I decided to buy a small amount of Bitcoin.
		I've seen a tremendous return of about 240%.
		This is a pretty good investment.
		And then the greasy, smelly guy is like, I was trying to buy drugs in 2011 and I'm a millionaire.
unidentified		That's pretty good.
unidentified		That's so funny.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		It is kind of wild.
		I met a dude a while ago.
		And he's super – he's probably a billionaire off of Bitcoin.
		He was like some anarcho-capitalist guy.
		Outright was just like – he bought Liberty – you guys remember Liberty dollars?
		That guy went to jail.
		So this dude then saw Bitcoin and just started buying up crazy amounts of it because he's an anti-government, conspiracy kind of guy.
		And now he's just super rich.
		He has no idea how it works.
		And he's like, I don't care.
		And I was like – I was having a conversation with him and he was like saying all these things and I was just like, do you have any idea what you're talking about?
		And he's like, no.
		He's like, just Bitcoin.
		Bitcoin is all that matters.
		And I was like, did you research it?
		Do you know what it is?
		He's like, no.
		And I was like – and you bought a bunch?
		He's like, yeah.
		And now he's on private jets and he's flying around and he's – I'm just like, this guy doesn't even know what he's talking about.
unidentified		I'll defend the early Bitcoiners a little bit because I think there's bad rhetoric that these guys just got lucky, right?
		And there's – what did they do to earn any wealth or any good standing in society?
		Right.
		I'll say this.
		When a really good idea needed attention, needed energy, those people were there when no one else was.
		And the fact that that guy even put a bid in the market and valued it at more than zero is worth the private jets he's flying on right now because look at how it's helping the world.
		So I do think – I want that message to get out there.
		And you mentioned it, Tim, is buying it is half the battle.
		Keeping it is the other.
		There's plenty of stories of guys that got arrested through Silk Road stuff, spent a decade in jail, came out multimillionaire.
		That's the forced huddle.
		Or even just holding through the bear markets because it's like as much conviction as you have, you are lying if at some point during the bear market you think like – Damn it.
		Am I a dumbass?
		I'm like, is this going to zero?
		Did I waste all my money?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		A few years ago, Allison and I were talking about, should we do a portion of employee pay in Bitcoin?
		And then we talked about it, and I was like, I think most people would be totally cool with it.
		And then we just didn't pursue it.
		It just kind of fell off the radar.
		And I'm pretty sure everybody who's here would have greatly appreciated a 20%.
unidentified		They wouldn't have held it.
unidentified		They wouldn't have held it.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		But they still would have made more money.
unidentified		In 2021, so I built...
		Or 2020, 2021. One of those years.
		I think 2021. I built a disc golf course on my property.
		No, it was 2020. And I would have my wrestlers who are high schoolers, they'd come over to work.
		You know, they want to work for $10 an hour, $12 an hour.
		Now they're like, I want $14 because, you know, inflation and shit.
		But anyway, so the one summer I made a bunch of my deal.
		deal.
		I said, I will pay you in Bitcoin for whatever dollars you earn.
		So 10 bucks an hour, you work six hours to pay $60 in Bitcoin.
		And then I said, on September 1st, if whatever I paid you in Bitcoin is worth less than what Wow.
		It wasn't a ton of money, right?
		I didn't want them to feel like I was ripping them off.
		Well, so that summer, Bitcoin was $6,000, $7,000, $8,000, you know?
		And so some of them, if they made $1,500 that summer, they might have made somewhere between $10,000 and $15,000 instead of $1,500.
		Wow.
		And I just harassed all—there was three or four of them that I mainly paid, and one of them claims to still have half of it.
		I don't know that I believe him, but most of them have sold it because holding it is hard.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		You don't have to hold it.
		I mean, if you're saving, you hold it.
		But like you said, you use a credit card, and then you pay it off with your Bitcoin.
		Yes, you're not holding it indefinitely.
		And this creates the liquidity in the market that allows people to get in if they have not— We've gotten in.
		So for a young dude who's working a summer job, this is what I would say.
		Again, I'm not telling you guys what to do.
		You do your own research.
		I'm saying I wish 10 years ago I started using Bitcoin as a bank account at the very least.
unidentified		Yeah, absolutely.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		And then when I needed to buy things and I do a new car, I would take out of my bank to buy the car.
		But here's the thing.
		If I put all of my income into Bitcoin like it was a bank account, like I get a paycheck, convert to Bitcoin and save it, I could have probably bought five cars per year, and I'd still have more US dollar value than I do now, which is absolutely insane.
		I'd have 50 free, 100 free cars just sitting around, and more US dollars.
		So...
		Again, like, high school kid gets paid in Bitcoin, spend the money at the end of the summer.
unidentified		But that's high time preference behavior.
		Because I said, like, you live in your parents' house, you don't got expenses.
		Like, you don't got to cash out and buy, you know, something you don't actually need.
		And that's what's wrong with America.
		My wife gets mad at me when I go on this rant.
		So many people buy so much bullshit they don't actually need, and they think that bullshit is going to make them happy, and it makes them happy for maybe a short window of time, but the bullshit doesn't make them long-term happy.
		And so, like, I have so many friends who are working these jobs that they don't actually like, so if you just saved in something that actually held its value and didn't buy bullshit all the time, then you could say, hey, you know what?
		I don't need this job anymore because I'm independently wealthy and I'm going to do whatever the fuck I want.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Do you guys remember Bitcoin Cash?
unidentified		I remember.
unidentified		Yeah, of course.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		So at some point, Bitcoin forked.
		And there were some people that they were like, they forked off Bitcoin cash saying, this is real Bitcoin.
		I mean, it's trading for $530.
		So what happens is, if you had 10 Bitcoin, when they forked it off, you would get 10 Bitcoin cash.
		I immediately sold it for Bitcoin.
		I was like, I don't know what this is, but I'll take free money.
unidentified		I couldn't believe...
		Explaining this to relatives at Thanksgiving, I was like, okay, you guys aren't going to get this.
		Some dude created money out of thin air and gave it to all of us.
		However, if I just created Jack Bucks with this...
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Jerky?
unidentified		Beef jerky here.
		No one would value it, but here's the catch.
		He created money out of thin air, gave it to all of us, and then said he'd give his Bitcoin for it.
		So we all, everyone was like, what?
		Someone created money out of thin air and then gave you real money for it?
		It's like, yeah, I swear to God.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		There was a short period where Bitcoin cash was worth more.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		It spiked really high.
unidentified		But if you do the chart like one against the other, it's Oh, it's nuts.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Pretty much down only.
unidentified		You'll notice they're similar.
		One's $100,000, one's $500, right?
		There's also Bitcoin diamond.
		There was all of them that kind of came out at the time.
		Yeah, and this goes to— I love using chess as an analogy of, you know, no one wants to play Jack's chess or Tim's chess, especially when I start losing and I say, well, okay, I'm going to change the rules.
		Your queens act like pawns, my pawns act like queens, and I call that Jack's chess.
		No one wants to play that.
		The rules of chess are the rules of chess and if you lose at the game, get better at the game.
		If money is truly a measure of your contributions to society and it's supposed to work how it's intended to work, if you don't like how much money you have, then work harder and be more valuable to people.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I'm going to launch my own crypto called Timcast Coin.
		I am declaring that it is worth nothing.
		It will never be worth anything and I will never own a single one and then some people are going to gamble on it.
unidentified		100%.
		Partner with Hawk Tua.
		Ah, there you go.
		Strategic deal.
		I'll call it Hawk 2. I think that early on, though, the messaging was always, you buy Bitcoin, you hold Bitcoin, you never sell Bitcoin, you die with your Bitcoin.
		Even Trump said, you never sell your Bitcoin.
		I know, but I do think that that mindset has to shift a little bit because if people are really going to adopt a Bitcoin standard for their personal lives like Jack has, you have to start getting comfortable with that being that Bitcoin is the primary core of your entire financial life.
		Yes.
		And you're going to be working in and out of that constantly.
		It doesn't mean that you're buying it and dumping it all, right?
		It means that over time- Yeah, buying it as a speculative asset.
		On your goods and services, on your credit cards, you know, hopefully as Bitcoin becomes more valuable over time, you're actually paying less of your Bitcoin over time for your expenses.
		It strengthens your financial picture long term.
		That mindset shift is going to take a little while.
		The products have to get really good.
		I mean, Strike's doing a great job with this to help people understand that.
		Treat it almost like it's your own bank account and then pay your bills out of What's fascinating...
		So my lifestyle got cheaper after I adopted Bitcoin and don't own any more dollars.
		And it's because what does it do to a man or woman if it's technically true...
		I don't want to give this shit away.
		Yeah, it's technically true that all the dollars you have now are best spent this second because next second they're worth less stuff.
		And so what does that do to a society, to a person versus the opposite on Bitcoin?
		My Bitcoin is better valued tomorrow than today...
		So I only consume what I absolutely need.
		All of a sudden, like the interest of getting whatever, bags and fancy whatever, cars, it's like, I'm cool with an Uber, man.
		It's all good.
		And you are able to save.
		And conversely, if you are being bled to death monetarily by inflation and a currency that's being printed, then you become an active, addicted consumer because your life's better off spending it now.
		Literally.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		That's what they want.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		The government.
unidentified		That's what they want.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		After 9-11, George W. Bush said, go spend money.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		They want you to just short-term gains, keep spending.
unidentified		That's the premise of Kenzie and Axonomics, is that you spend money all the time.
		You don't save it.
		They don't want savers.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		They want to extract a portion of your labor.
		So if you're not spending any money, they're not extracting from you.
		That's how they got to play it if they want to engage in the dirty games.
		But to be fair, during COVID, they got rid of the limits on fractional reserve banking.
		This is the other crazy thing people don't understand.
		So crazy.
		How do I discover Bitcoin in 2011?
		Well, have you guys all seen Zeitgeist documentary in the 2000s?
unidentified		No.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you got to watch it.
unidentified		I feel like I did, but it's been so long I don't really remember.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		So there were a couple of big viral documentaries in the early days of the internet.
		Loose Change, 9-11 was one of them.
		People were sharing DVDs with each other.
		And there was also Zeitgeist.
		And in this, what's the guy's name?
		I can't believe I'm forgetting his name.
		Anyway, he made a documentary and in it he explains basic fractional reserve banking.
		How does it work?
		Yeah.
		I'm probably getting it wrong.
		It's like nine to one.
		They can issue out a loan.
unidentified		Yeah.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		They can create money as long as they have a certain amount to accommodate for that.
		Let me dramatically simplify it.
		If you put $100 in the bank, they're allowed to create $90.
		Yep.
unidentified		No, no, no.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		900. 900 does.
		Right, 9 to 1. 9 to 1. They got rid of the limits in March, meaning they could give out an infinite number of debt to anybody at any point, meaning inflation was bound to go nuts.
		And then it did.
		And we are swimming in it, and it's getting worse.
		The removal of that limit was basically like, this is apocalyptic for the U.S. dollar.
		And we are still in it.
		Is Donald Trump going to be able to solve a lot of this stuff?
		Well, it may be.
		He's saying he's going to get the prices down.
		I think he will with energy, but will it get down?
		It can never go backwards to the point where things are going to be as cheap as they used to be because of inflation.
unidentified		Well, I actually think about that.
		So I think, okay, we've borrowed $36 trillion that we don't actually have.
		That's why we have a debt.
		And if we're actually going to pay that back, that means moving forward, we're going to have to spend $36 trillion less than what we make in order to get back to zero, if that's possible, right?
		You could do that a few ways.
		You could print more money to make $36 trillion, not all that much.
		You could have austerity and spend less money.
		We're going to try to do that with Doge.
		Jack says it's impossible.
		We'll see.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Real quick, sorry.
		No, no, it's 90%.
		So they're allowed to lend out 90% in fractional reserve banking.
		If you put $100 in, they can create a $90 loan.
		So they don't take your $100 and give it to someone else.
		They create a $90 debt, which just creates cash in the air.
unidentified		Are you sure?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
unidentified		Okay.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		And then what happens is...
		The individual at $90 deposits that into a bank, and then they can issue out an $81 loan.
		And so $100 turns into something like $900 with everybody getting until it winds all the way down.
		They removed that limitation in March.
		I do believe they re-implemented it afterwards, like a year or so ago or something like that.
		But just to dramatically simplify instead of trying to get into the whole thing explaining fractional reserve banking, banks and the U.S. government, they're not printing money in Denver like people think with a machine printer.
		They're going into a computer and going 5-0-0-0-0-0, enter.
unidentified		Well, that's why they're so protective over the banking system.
		It's an extension of the whole scheme, 100%.
		And that was, I mean, honestly, the reason I went, but if someone first told me about Bitcoin, and I wish someone had told me earlier, I was like, oh shit, I need some of that, is because I was a Ron Paul guy, and I had read Ed and the Fed a few times, and I realized why our dollar was flawed.
		And I just didn't see an exit.
		You know, I obviously bought some gold and silver prior, but I didn't know about Bitcoin until someone told me.
		And so, you know, that's a great start for people is to end the Fed and figure out what they're doing there and why has no one ever audited it?
		Like, why does it still exist?
		And if Trump could end it, that would be tremendous.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Well, you look at Millet in Argentina.
unidentified		Yeah.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		And you look at El Salvador and I just imagine Ron Paul, just when that happened, he put his feet up, he lit up a cigar and he's like, told you.
unidentified		Yeah.
		I think what Trump wants is – because we talked earlier that inflation can be measured depending on what you want.
		You want a house?
		You want a Caesar salad.
		Different inflation metrics, right?
		I think what he – he's going to try and engineer asset inflation.
		I'm pretty – it's pretty clear.
		He wants consumer goods to come down.
		He's going to invest in energy, local production, tariffs.
		But then he wants the stock market.
		He wants Bitcoin to go up.
		He's even hinted at he's been really critical of Jerome Powell and the Fed almost to the point where does he want oversight over the Fed?
		Is he going to maybe potentially say that this thing can't be independent because I need to control the short term and the long term?
		What if...
		The head of the treasury was also the chairman of the Fed.
		Now, I'm not saying that would be a good or bad thing, but to me, to your point, I don't know if this is a fixable problem.
		It's certainly the most complicated thing to inherit ever, probably as a president as far as fiscal situation goes.
		Because asset inflation, to be clear, for everyone...
		Is good for the president, for Trump, because you get a lot of tax receipts.
		You know, they get a lot of cap gains tax receipts if things go up, right?
		Things go up.
		There's the wealth effect.
		People feel rich.
		They sell it.
		They buy big stuff, economic growth.
		So I'm hearing his comments.
		You know, America is so weird.
		You guy gets elected and then we got to like sit and wait.
		It's like blue balls.
		You got to sit and wait, see like what's actually going to happen.
		Like he's not even in office yet.
		He can't actually make decisions and give direction.
		So we'll see.
		But based on what he's saying, I think that I think that's what he's going to try and do.
		asset inflation.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		The reason why the international interests despise Trump so much is they want normalization between large economic blocks.
		They want a one world currency.
		They want to be able to control the entire payment structure.
		And here's the truth.
		We have a one world currency and we've had it for a long time.
		It's called Visa and MasterCard.
		In reality, it's called the SWIFT payment system.
		I can go to any country on the planet and swipe my exact same credit card and it will automatically convert.
		So I think what these people realized was we don't need to create the the earth dollar.
		Let people transact locally with whatever they want.
		Give them the credit card that will automatically handle everything behind the scenes, and they're trading as if they have one currency.
		Donald Trump wants America and Americans to benefit, to be better off, to be wealthy.
		And this is in defiance of external interests that are not American.
		So there's a lot of money around the world that wants to stop a guy like him from doing what he's doing.
		So I agree with you.
		What does he want to do?
		He wants the cost of consumer goods to go down.
		He wants food to go down.
		He wants fuel to go down.
		And he wants assets to go up so that Americans become wealthier, can buy more, can have more.
		And that's bad for those who want a flat, stable, low-income planet that's easy to control.
unidentified		And that it still attacks on the people that don't have the assets.
		If the assets are inflating, then you're increasingly getting poorer when measured in housing, when measured in equities.
		But what's unique about Bitcoin is everyone can own it.
		Everyone can own it.
		You could buy a penny worth of it.
		So I would, again, recommend entirely on this show to get yourself some Bitcoin because if Trump is going to try and engineer asset inflation, that's the one asset that's going to perform the best and it's the only one that all of us can have.
		You can't recommend on a podcast.
		I think everyone should go get themselves some beachfront real estate in Miami, right?
		But I can say everyone should get a little bit of Bitcoin.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I've got family members who bought Bitcoin at like 30k.
		No, no, no.
		At around 50 or 60, it dropped down to 30, and they were freaking out, being like, I don't know what I'm going to do.
		And I'm like, why are you acting like you lost anything?
		Do you need the money right now?
		No, you didn't lose anything.
		And now they're not complaining.
		Now they're like, oh.
		I'm like, yeah, it's...
		Look...
		Donald Trump's going to come in, and I hope he does a Bitcoin reserve.
		I hope he starts doing everything he says he's going to do.
		It's only going to get better for everybody.
		That's it.
		I mean, if you live in a foreign country, well, then you're not America.
		I don't know.
		We're not supposed to be securing the interests of other countries.
unidentified		They can buy Bitcoin, too.
unidentified		Individuals in any country.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Here's the other thing, too.
		I've had friends tell me, like, when Bitcoin hit...
		12k or whatever.
		They were like, man, I wish I got in.
		And I was like, so buy some Bitcoin.
		And they're like, well, it's 12,000 now.
		And I was like, a dollar's worth of Bitcoin.
		What are you talking about?
		And they were like, how do you do that?
		And I'm like, oh, my friend.
unidentified		Well, just to circle back to where Jack started is, one of them is going to go down in perpetuity.
		One of them is going to go up in perpetuity.
		So it doesn't matter what the price of the Bitcoin is.
		If you buy $1,000 of Bitcoin, If you waited 10 years, your $1,000 of cash is going to be worth less, and your $1,000 of Bitcoin is going to be worth more.
		So it doesn't really matter how much of the Bitcoin you own if you just buy whatever you can.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Someone is like a viral post where they basically tracked the value gains of Bitcoin over time, and the prediction is if Bitcoin follows the exact pattern it's been following for the past 14 years, 10 years from now, Bitcoin will be at $1 million.
unidentified		I think sooner.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		But this doesn't take into account ubiquity.
unidentified		I saw that post, though.
unidentified		They said it was the amount of time from zero to 10,000, 10,000 to 100,000.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		So 100,000 to a million will be in 10 years.
unidentified		Yeah, on a logarithmic scale.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		It doesn't take into account ubiquity.
		It doesn't take into account if there's mass adoption or a variable shock to the system.
unidentified		Yeah, because, I mean, what Ben's expertise is, is corporate treasuries.
		And, you know, I told him in the last cycle, it was like, microstrategy, maybe there was a couple others, but it's really rare.
		And now it feels like there's, and they're not huge companies, but it feels like there's about five being announced every day.
		Like, oh, this company bought 20, this company bought 100, you know?
		And so, like, once that ramps up, and then, if America does it, to his point, it might happen like...
		I think that it's a really important message.
		I think Bitcoin, people misunderstand it as like some intellectual test of how smart are you to understand it.
		It's an ego test.
		Because if you think you're late, late to who?
		There's no Bitcoin CEO taking attendance.
		You're late because you're comparing yourself to other people, which just – that's vulnerable insecurities.
		That's being a small person.
		Because at the end of the day, decisions are made at the margin.
		You wake up every day, you do stuff for the world.
		You have to store your value in return for the stuff you've done.
		And you have to make the decision every day.
		Do I want it in dollars?
		Do I want it in this other thing?
		And so it doesn't matter what the price is.
		I will be storing my life's work in Bitcoin at the top forever.
		Michael Saylor quote.
		I will always make the decision to own the thing that no one can print versus the thing that a man can print, right?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		In 15 years, I think?
		Then the price will drop, and they'll say, I'm ruined, and they'll sell off.
		That's their fault.
		That's not an issue of Bitcoin at all.
		If you put your life savings into Bitcoin at any point in the past 15 years, you have not lost anything.
unidentified		You'd be up significantly in U.S. dollar terms.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		That's 100% this year.
unidentified		I mean, Ben said this earlier.
unidentified		He didn't say the exact words.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I'm not making suggestions of what people should do.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I'm just saying...
unidentified		Not financial advice.
		But you said, you know, if...
		If you're only getting in for the number go up technology, if that's only the year and four, then yes, when it goes down a little bit, you're going to get scared and you're likely to sell.
		But if you start reading and educate yourself and you start realizing what this actually is, then it goes down a little bit and you're like, oh, it's not a big deal.
		Like, I realize this is better.
		And in the long run, which is what I'm investing for, it's going to go up.
		Well, you have to realize that pricing of these assets is set at the margins, right?
		It's really only the ones that are available to exchange hands.
		And a lot of that does get driven by traders.
		And the weird thing with the digital asset markets is the international exchanges have introduced huge leverage into these systems.
		They'll allow you to trade with 100 times leverage or 200 times leverage.
		What that also does is it does create that volatility because you've got really razor thin margins for liquidation levels.
		So you'll get these price movements, but as bigger and bigger capital has been entering Bitcoin, the volatility is actually starting to decrease, right?
		And so you've got companies like MicroStrategy where they saw the value in that volatility, Yeah.
		successfully, right?
		They're like two times as volatile as Bitcoin is.
		And what people miss about that entire strategy is that what MicroStrategy is doing is they basically created a loading dock for Wall Street Capital to get brought to the spot Bitcoin market that can never make it there otherwise, right?
		So all these funds that are investing in all these convertible bonds that MicroStrategy is offering, they have a charter that only allows them to invest in convertible debt.
		That's it.
		That's the only thing they can buy.
		Billions and billions of dollars.
		And there's never been any returns there because you're investing in companies that have no volatility.
		They'll have 15 or 20 volatility.
		MicroStrategy is 120. So now, he's basically capturing Wall Street capital and bringing it to the spot Bitcoin markets, which is a big shift.
		And the reason they all love him for it is because it's providing those returns.
		So people do still love it as a trading asset, but there's the fundamental part of the asset that individuals need to know about.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		You guys know the story of how Max Keiser tried to give Alex Jones 10,000 Bitcoin.
unidentified		I thought he did give it to him.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Is that what – He lost it?
unidentified		Alex lost it, I believe.
unidentified		Idiot!
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		That's a billion dollars.
unidentified		What an idiot!
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		So it's funny because he still would have had it seized in the Sandy Hook lawsuit.
unidentified		Well, but you can't seize anyone's Bitcoin.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		It's hard to even track it.
		I think they tried claiming that Alex Jones had hidden crypto assets, which – I mean, I'm not going to make any statements about Alex personally because I don't know, but who doesn't have crypto assets that are difficult to track?
unidentified		Yeah, absolutely.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I encourage everybody who has it, you make sure you're reporting properly and all that stuff.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		But I'm saying you might have Bitcoin lying on a drive somewhere that no one even knows about, you know?
unidentified		I was fishing a few days ago and I tweeted out and I said, oh shoot, I think I lost my keys at IRS. And hey, it's a joke, IRS. I've been through the audits.
		I don't want any smoke.
		It was bold to tag them directly.
		I had sympathy for your loss, but I thought tagging them.
		No, it's the age-old joke, though.
		If I wanted it to be, it could be 12 words that I've stored in my brain.
		That's what's crazy.
		If I could put an asset in my brain – I had the joke of like Bitcoin is safe in your brain and gold is stuck in your butt.
		If you've got to take gold through TSA, good luck.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Explain the 12 words people don't know.
unidentified		Your key, your passphrase, the sensitive part that deems you the owner of the Bitcoin can be represented as 12 plain English words.
		And so if you have trust in the future of your memory – so no head injuries or any – don't get in a fight – No.
		Listen, I just had my brain studied in September, and he said, man, your brain's great.
		Looks like no concussions ever.
		Good.
		I said, well...
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Good.
unidentified		Awesome.
unidentified		So there's trade-offs for everything, but you could store your key with 12 words.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		To be fair, it's like, you know the IQ bell curve meme?
unidentified		Yes.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Where there's a really dumb guy with his eyes on the side, I said?
unidentified		Yeah, that's great.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		You've got that guy, and you've got the monk guy, and the guy in the back end is like, I bought Bitcoin.
		The smart guy's like, I bought Bitcoin.
		And then the guy in the middle crying is saying, this is stupid, isn't even represented by any value.
		Why would you buy this?
unidentified		Well, it also goes back to, you know, if the government's going to quote-unquote ban Bitcoin, they're going to ban English because fundamentally Bitcoin is speech, Bitcoin is text, Bitcoin is information.
unidentified		And so it goes down to like really fundamental human rights that we theoretically are born with.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I think they learned their lesson.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I think, you know, because you had for a while, I think Elizabeth Warren was talking against it.
unidentified		Oh, she's the worst.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and they were all saying like it's bad and it can be used for drugs and all this other stuff.
		And then they probably just looked and they're like, there's nothing you can do to stop this.
		This is a damn break and you can go with the flow and try and move through it or you can stand there and just get washed away.
		So I think what we're probably going to see moving into the Trump administration especially because they have a crypto czar.
		They're going to try, to the best of their ability, to utilize the wealth and power of the United States to have some influence in this space, as opposed to just trying to resist what can't be stopped.
unidentified		Oh, yeah, absolutely.
unidentified		They'll incentivize investment within the United States economy.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		And try to capitalize.
unidentified		Bring it in.
		Yeah.
		Try to capitalize it.
		Try to be the leader in getting this.
		Because, I mean, Gary Gensler was—he was freaking awful, and, I mean, he lost a lot, so thankfully he didn't have very much success in what he was doing, but he was torturing every crypto company, and it made some of them—I think some of them—you guys could probably speak on this better than me, but I believe some of the companies did actually leave the United States because of how hostile it was.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		You know, there's that Paul Krugman quote.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Let me see if I can find this.
unidentified		He's almost as bad as Gary Gensler.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		The fax machine quote.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		And then there's Peter Schiff.
unidentified		Oh, he's insufferable.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Let me pull up this quote here.
unidentified		Schiff's the worst.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Let's understand.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		He's a nice guy.
unidentified		He's a funny guy.
unidentified		I debated him.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Good guy.
		Paul Krugman said, By 2005 or so, it will become clear that the Internet's impact on the economy has been no greater than the fax machines.
		Oh.
		Yikes!
		That is bad, bad, bad.
		And then you have these constant tweets from Peter Schiff where it's just...
unidentified		Constant.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Bitcoin will never reach this amount.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		It's like every year he has to say it and then it happens.
unidentified		Every year, every day, every day.
		I notice that Peter Schiff owns no Bitcoin, but his wife owns Bitcoin and his son owns Bitcoin.
		Right, so he...
		He's a marketer, right?
		He knows what he's doing.
		He's got products that he's selling.
		This has become his shtick and it keeps him in the mainstream perpetually.
		I've debated, Peter, Bitcoin versus gold.
		And the funniest part is I'm 100% Bitcoin.
		Literally, he owns zero dollars.
		You ask Peter, you know, what percentage of your net worth is in gold?
		And it's whatever, 5%, 10%.
		It's okay.
		So you believe in gold 5%.
		I'm telling you, I believe in this thing 100%.
		I'm that confident.
		How can you be selling something that you're...
		When people sell you 2%, you should allocate 2% of your portfolio.
		So that means you're 98% not confident.
		You know what I mean?
		You can't take people like that too serious because they're not that confident in what they're selling.
		It basically sounds like even he just has an insurance policy, right?
		2% is an insurance policy.
		Even BlackRock coming out and saying everyone should have 2% Bitcoin.
		Insurance policies aren't a solution.
		If you want an insurance policy for a natural disaster, it's not preventing the natural disaster.
		I'm talking about I have a solution.
		Michael Saylor, I love this, is hedges are for when you don't know the answer.
		And you want to diversify the potential.
		If you know the answer, I'm not diversifying out of Bitcoin for shit.
		I know the answer.
		And I'm leaning into the answer as much as I can, right?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, man.
		This next administration is going to be interesting.
		What do you think about the cryptos?
		What do you think they're going to do?
unidentified		I think most people think very positively David Sachs.
		And if you read, read slash listen to him, he's not exactly a Bitcoin maxi, but he's not really far off.
		Like, he's very, very pro-Bitcoin.
		And he understands it deeply.
		I think it's – David's bright.
		The commitment that Trump is making, which is I want someone in position to service this space, hear the criticisms, the feedback, build a plan.
		I mean there was no role prior, and the fact that there is a role for that now is incredibly exciting.
		Now, you know, is he going to make mistakes?
		What decisions is he going to make?
		He's a bright guy, super successful businessman, and has experience in the industry.
		That's all you can really ask for.
		I mean, everyone's going to, like, I would love if Sailor was in charge, right?
		But what are you going to do?
		I think it's exciting.
		You have to look at the collective, too, right?
		Because it goes further out in his cabinet than just having a crypto site.
		Remember, they're all kind of Bitcoiners.
		You've got Howard Lutnick in there.
		You've got Bascent in there, right?
		JD Vance owns Bitcoin.
		Yeah.
		Like, this is going to be, by far, the most pro-Bitcoin administration that we're going to The game theory and story of Bitcoin is you're better off on its team than in its way.
		Exactly.
		Period.
		And that's been the story.
		And I think Trump realizes that.
		Who am I to get in the way of this saying for what?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		You know, just if I had a time machine.
		It's funny to ask, what would you do if you go back in time 10 years?
		One of the most common answers now is buy Bitcoin.
		The gain has been so massive on it.
		I mean, you could buy Nvidia.
		People are saying, oh, Nvidia stock, whatever.
		I'm like, company stock is company stock, though.
		The thing about Bitcoin is it's fascinating that every step of the way, I've had people scream in my ears about this is a revolution.
		So even when Bitcoin was at $50, I remember talking – I'm hanging out with Max Keiser and he's saying this is like a revolution in asset technology.
		I don't know if you guys know, like Max created online trading in the first place with the – what was it?
		Celebrity – what was it called?
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		I don't remember the name.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he had a celebrity stock trading app that he had made and sold, and he effectively created...
		I could be getting this wrong, so forgive me, Max.
		But my understanding is that he was a young Wall Street guy, and he basically created a digital way to trade assets on the internet in a rudimentary way and sold it.
		Bitcoin comes around.
		He's the guy who knows, and he's telling everybody, like, if you want to be rich, Tim, just hang out with me.
		That's what he told me.
		He told me that in 2012. And I was like, yeah, I know, Max.
		I know, I know.
		And it's funny because I was hanging out with Max and one of his buddies.
		His buddy was talking about – he's a billionaire guy.
		And he said Square, the point-of-sale technology.
		He's like, that's the investment.
		And I was like, sure.
		So I bought a little bit of Square at like $15 and that's at $100.
		And I'm like, these guys understand the economic system.
		I guarantee you, like, everybody and their mom wishes they were watching Max Keiser's show 10 years ago and listened to what he had to say.
		And so, to be fair, when Max is saying right now his price target is $2.2 million, I go, okay, Max, okay.
		And then I look back 10 years and I'm like, ugh.
unidentified		Yeah.
		But by what date did he say that?
		Next year?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I don't know if he said...
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		I don't know his time frame.
unidentified		Well, eventually it'll get there.
		Eventually, yeah.
		But I think a fool makes the same mistake twice.
		For anyone that has regrets about Bitcoin, don't do it again.
		Get some.
		It's the thing.
		If you didn't buy it then, you can buy it now.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Hardly at the top.
		Right.
		And my attitude kind of is...
		I don't know and I don't care.
		The people at home, I'm not going to tell you what to do.
		I got to a point where I have been watching Bitcoin since 2011, when I first saw it, 70 cents, and was reading the stories about it, was using the Bitcoin faucet, had the app on my computer.
		It was much easier, much, much easier to mine back then, for sure.
		And I have watched it spike and then fall and then spike and then fall and then spike.
		So at some point in the early, or like, yeah, I think it was like 10 or so years ago or something.
		I can't remember when Bitcoin was around like 1100 or whatever.
		I said, I'm just going to I'm done.
		2016. 2016, was it?
		It might have been around then.
		I was just like...
		I've watched it go from $0.70 to $1,000 and everything in between.
		And everyone keeps telling me and all the experts, like Max, for instance.
		And I was like, whatever, man.
		And I'm just going to buy a bunch, put it in my wallet, and I'm just going to forget about it.
		Because that $5,000 I never spent is worthless to me.
		I know it's $5,000 today, but 10 years ago, it had double or triple the buying power or whatever.
		And so I just bought a bunch.
		Whether anyone wants to buy it or not, it's happening.
		It's happening.
		It's happened, and it's going to keep happening.
		And you look at El Salvador.
		You look at Donald Trump's position on this.
		It's going to keep happening.
		So you do you.
		I'm not going to tell you what to do.
		All I know is I'm good.
		We're going to wind things down.
		So if you guys want to give any final thoughts and shout-outs as we wrap up.
unidentified		Yeah, I think instead of encouraging people to buy Bitcoin, I challenge you to think what else are you going to own?
		It's a really interesting, again, you can't buy Miami Beachfront property.
		What else are you going to own?
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		It'll be underwater, they tell us.
unidentified		Yeah.
		They've been telling us that.
		And I don't know.
		I'm excited to be in America right now building on this thing.
		I've never been more optimistic about what I've been working on in the last 12 years.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		And I'm glad Trump has said no CBDC and run into cryptos are.
		He is listening.
		It's great.
unidentified		Yeah.
		I would say before you buy, do your research because you can get in for the number of technology and maybe you stay for the life change because it really will change the way you think about things if you get into it deeply enough.
		And I would say, I think this is your chance to think differently as an individual, right?
		Really take stock of the things you believe and figure out why you believe them.
		And once you crack that code for yourself, it opens your mind to the different possibilities that something like Bitcoin brings to you as a sovereign individual.
		And I think that's a journey that's worthwhile for everyone to go down.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Where can they find you?
unidentified		Jack Mallers is my real name.
unidentified		So Twitter, all the other stuff, give it to Google.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Where?
unidentified		X. I still say Twitter.
		Sorry, Elon.
		Lord Elon.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		My apologies.
unidentified		I'm at Ben Askren on Twitter also.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		Right on.
unidentified		I'm at Ben Workman.
unidentified		None of us are hiding.
tim pool ▲ ● ▼		There you go.
		All right, everybody.
		This has been great.
		I love talking this stuff.
		Thanks for hanging out, everybody.
		Look into it yourself.
		Figure out what makes sense for you.
		But it's coming.
		It's happening.
		It's been happening.
		And we'll be back tonight at 8 p.m.
		over at YouTube.com slash TimCastIRL.

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